Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
On Sat, Jul 22, 2000 at 01:59:45PM -0800, Civileme wrote: > troubles, chipsets only. All the Processors work very well. The one Chip I > have heard some things about, and they were chipset dependant, was the K6-3, > and that concerned the On-Chip L2 Cache and the resulting speed performance. > Since AMD dropped the K6-3, there _may_ be some substance to those complaints; > however, I have had reports of flawless multiyear performance from K6-3s as > well. My first experience with Linux was with an AMD 200mmx - no problem. Now I run an AMD K6-3 450 and am very happy with it. I like to think AMD dropped the K6-3 to differentiate the Athlon sufficiently so people would buy it! :) -- Dennis Robertson 2/2 Sylvia Street NOOSAVILLE QLD 4566 Phone: 61 7 54742343 Mob: 0419 535539
Re: [expert] Pentium 200Mhz/MMX and Mandrake - Resource Efficient?
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by John J. LeMay Jr.: > > Doesn't there come a point when using a machine as old as an XT clone > actually costs more to run (heat/electric) than grabbing something like the > BookPC machines (around $500 ready to roll) and tossing the "classic" into > the antique rack? > > I'm not blasting anyone for still using old equipment, I would never do > that. I'm just curious as to the trade off. I would assume their has been > significant advances in power efficiency and in the physics involved in > keeping machines cool in the past 10 years or so and that these features may > make purchasing a new machine more cost effective than running an old one. > > Just curious! Yes, it probably does cost more to run it than say one of the everything on one board machines. I actually did it originally as an exercise in adapting old equipment into terminals. Bottom line is that I can get an XT with a monitor for around $50-100 while a real terminal will cost me at least twice that :/. Around here, I am more accountable for initial investment than cost of operation. -- _ _|_|_ ( ) *Anton Graham /v\ / <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /( )X (m_m) GPG ID: 18F78541 Penguin Powered!
Re: [expert] More version 7.1 problems
Norm, The .gif to .xpm conversion you speak of.. does it work equally well in all window managers? Thanks, Pj [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 11:04 PM 7/22/00 -0500, you wrote: >Tom Brinkman wrote: >> > But will they accept and convert OS/2 and Win icons? I thought I tried and >> > they did not? >> If you take any .gif file and reduce it to 64x64 and change >> it to an .xpm, you can then use it as a KDE icon. > >And you can use xv to convert gif or bmp files to xpm format. > >Norm > > >
Re: [expert] More version 7.1 problems
Tom Brinkman wrote: > > But will they accept and convert OS/2 and Win icons? I thought I tried and > > they did not? > If you take any .gif file and reduce it to 64x64 and change > it to an .xpm, you can then use it as a KDE icon. And you can use xv to convert gif or bmp files to xpm format. Norm
RE: [expert] Pentium 200Mhz/MMX and Mandrake - Resource Efficient?
> The real question is what you want the machine to do :) For example, I > have an old PC/XT clone I still use as a terminal for an AMD K6-2/350 > system and a 386sx/25 (ex-doorstop) running as a firewall/router. Doesn't there come a point when using a machine as old as an XT clone actually costs more to run (heat/electric) than grabbing something like the BookPC machines (around $500 ready to roll) and tossing the "classic" into the antique rack? I'm not blasting anyone for still using old equipment, I would never do that. I'm just curious as to the trade off. I would assume their has been significant advances in power efficiency and in the physics involved in keeping machines cool in the past 10 years or so and that these features may make purchasing a new machine more cost effective than running an old one. Just curious!
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
I don't fully understand it, but in my 7.1 home directory, xhost+localhost is the first line in my .xinitrc file. I really don't remember when I put it there, but as the upgrades have come and gone, .xinitrc has remained the same in my home directory which stays the same from one version to the next. On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > John Aldrich wrote: > This seems to be a mandrake thing. Why, I dunno, cannot answer it.. > But when I was running mdk 6.1, I used to have to do the xhost > +localhost all the time! > > I don't know enough about Linux (yet) to know why, but I did. One of my > local linux guru's helped me with that. > > With RH 6.2, I've NEVER had to do xhost +localhost.. > > I asked in the past and never got an answer.. > > WHAT it THIS, and WHY is this? I would *really* like to know.. > > Alan > > -- -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
John Aldrich wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Ken Archer wrote: > > > > > Funny how you remember things your father used to say. Mine used to look at me > > > and say, "Experience is a cruel teacher, but a fool can learn from no other." > > > > > > > Good one. While certain (safe) commands have had permissions modified > > to allow me to run them as a normal user (of a particular group). > > Having to type su or sudo (or whatever other program you use for the > > purpose) is a reminder that what you are about to do may have > > repercussions. > > > Yeah. I've changed the permissions on my XCDRoast such that > I can now burn CDs as a non-root user. I really HATED > having to open a console, type "xhost +localhost" and then > su to root and run xcdroast. :-) THAT was a lot of pain. This seems to be a mandrake thing. Why, I dunno, cannot answer it.. But when I was running mdk 6.1, I used to have to do the xhost +localhost all the time! I don't know enough about Linux (yet) to know why, but I did. One of my local linux guru's helped me with that. With RH 6.2, I've NEVER had to do xhost +localhost.. I asked in the past and never got an answer.. WHAT it THIS, and WHY is this? I would *really* like to know.. Alan --
Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
I've run 6.0, 6.5 and 7.0 on my AMD K6 (home built system) witn no problems Lorne Sevatio Octavio wrote: > Are there any problems with using AMD chips for running Linux? > > Seve -- Lorne Schachter (732) 819-0460, (732)819-0460 (FAX) http://www.intact.com/~lorne begin:vcard n:Schachter;Lorne x-mozilla-html:TRUE adr:;; version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-cpt:;-13760 fn:Lorne Schachter end:vcard
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Ken Archer wrote: > > > Funny how you remember things your father used to say. Mine used to look at me > > and say, "Experience is a cruel teacher, but a fool can learn from no other." > > > > Good one. While certain (safe) commands have had permissions modified > to allow me to run them as a normal user (of a particular group). > Having to type su or sudo (or whatever other program you use for the > purpose) is a reminder that what you are about to do may have > repercussions. > Yeah. I've changed the permissions on my XCDRoast such that I can now burn CDs as a non-root user. I really HATED having to open a console, type "xhost +localhost" and then su to root and run xcdroast. :-) THAT was a lot of pain. Then I got smart and made XCDRoast run SUID. :-) I did the same thing with RDATE. I *still* can't run HWCLOCK as a non-root user, but it's no big deal to su to root for that. Now, installing RPMs requires me to SU, but just running RPM queries does not. I'm glad RH fixed that in 6.2 In RH 6.0, I was not able to run RPM queries as a non-root user. John
Re: [expert] Pentium 200Mhz/MMX and Mandrake - Resource Effecient?
Submitted 23-Jul-00 by Sevatio Octavio: > I know that Linux is efficient, so I'm just curious about what a Pentium > 200Mhz/MMX 64Meg SDRAM can do with Mandrake. If any of you have > experiences with older systems, please share how much work you've been > able to squeeze out of such resources. What kind of servers are you > running and the level of traffic? This machine is a P166 with 96 MB (EDO). While it isn't heavily loaded network wise, I do run http, dns, and mail servers on the box. I wouldn't recommend a system like this for a high traffic site, but I have run a MUD server (as a backup) on a P150/64 with an average network load of 60-90 connections. The real question is what you want the machine to do :) For example, I have an old PC/XT clone I still use as a terminal for an AMD K6-2/350 system and a 386sx/25 (ex-doorstop) running as a firewall/router. -- _ _|_|_ ( ) *Anton Graham /v\ / <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /( )X (m_m) GPG ID: 18F78541 Penguin Powered!
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Ken Archer wrote: > Funny how you remember things your father used to say. Mine used to look at me > and say, "Experience is a cruel teacher, but a fool can learn from no other." > Good one. While certain (safe) commands have had permissions modified to allow me to run them as a normal user (of a particular group). Having to type su or sudo (or whatever other program you use for the purpose) is a reminder that what you are about to do may have repercussions. For our flippant friend who thinks that he loses nothing if he trashes his install by running as root constantly, remember that may be true if you have nothing but the stock distribution on your drive(s). But if, like most people you have custom configurations and packages compiled specifically for your system, you could spend a week recovering from it. And if you don't back up (and we all know most people don't) it can take much longer. -- _ _|_|_ ( ) *Anton Graham /v\ / <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /( )X (m_m) GPG ID: 18F78541 Penguin Powered!
[expert] Pentium 200Mhz/MMX and Mandrake - Resource Effecient?
Thanks for all the info regarding the AMD chips. Now on the other end of the spectrum... I know that Linux is efficient, so I'm just curious about what a Pentium 200Mhz/MMX 64Meg SDRAM can do with Mandrake. If any of you have experiences with older systems, please share how much work you've been able to squeeze out of such resources. What kind of servers are you running and the level of traffic? Seve
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
Funny how you remember things your father used to say. Mine used to look at me and say, "Experience is a cruel teacher, but a fool can learn from no other." On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 06:16:53PM -0400, Fireman71 wrote: >Hmmm, i run root all the time and will continue to do so. couple of reasons. > I got tired of typing su and sudo about every 3rd command. I got tired of not > being able to cd into some of my directories. -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
RE: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > I am thinking about buying an Athlon motherboard. > I would welcome comments (goor and bad) about the > ones out there. I would probably run 800MHz. I > would like to have at least one ide socket for my > sound card. Please advise if you have good/bad to > say about any particular boards. > > I have never been as impressed by any other Motherboard as I am by the AZ11 from FIC. I would not hesitate to recommend it in the basis of my experience for either socket A chip, the Duron 600, 650 or 700, or any speed of the Athlon Thunderbird. My little DUron 600 with its clock forced to 600 instead of freewheeling will outbenchmark a Xeon IIIB 700. The Athlon T-Bird series at 800 and 850 rival the P-III coppermine at 1GHz, and the 900 outperforms it. Performance considerations aside, I am running cool when the board works its way up to the optimum, which for my setup turned out to be about 672 or 112% rated speed. I have PC133 SDRAM on board and somehow this little board manages TWO fetches per cycle so its FSB really runs at twice the memory bus speed. I would love to know more about that, and I am fairly certain it really does so else I could not beat this Xeon on some throughput tasks, because it is clocked higher and is nearly equal in pure processor performance with the edge to the Xeon, but the Duron is surrounded with better support and runs at 37C pretty constantly And I bought FIC because it was the only Socket A board available to me. Now I am wondering if I will buy any other Socket A brand. I thought FIC was a "slightly above average on SUper-7" with poor to fair performance in the BX Chipsets, but this one showed me how wrong conclusions about "brand" technologies can be. FIC outdid themselves and everyone else with this AZ11 Board. Civileme
RE: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
I am thinking about buying an Athlon motherboard. I would welcome comments (goor and bad) about the ones out there. I would probably run 800MHz. I would like to have at least one ide socket for my sound card. Please advise if you have good/bad to say about any particular boards. [Portions snipped] At 13:59 07/22/2000 -0800, you wrote: >On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: >> I have had complaints from customers about the fact that mandrake is >> compiled for the Pentium class systems when using an Athlon. >have heard some things about, and they were chipset dependant, was the K6-3, >and that concerned the On-Chip L2 Cache and the resulting speed performance. >Since AMD dropped the K6-3, there _may_ be some substance to those complaints; >however, I have had reports of flawless multiyear performance from K6-3s as >well. >
Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
Here at our LUG headquarters, we use 2 Athlon 600mhz boxes, and Mandrake 7.1 The boxes absolutely rock. No problems what-so-ever, We also have 2 500mhz AMD K-6/2 boxes and they are just as awsome, but the Athlons run games alot faster (Quake III, Unreal Tournament, etc..) John CLlug http://www.cllug.org __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
RE: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > I have had complaints from customers about the fact that mandrake is > compiled for the Pentium class systems when using an Athlon. Have any of > you had the same problem. My experience is with the K6-2 and K6-3. I want > to install on an Athlon but have my doubts. Any comments is appriciated. > > Debie Scholz > I have done about 10 K-6, 37 Celeron, 2 P-II/III, and one Duron (Athlon with a smaller on-chip cache and for Socket A) I have had more difficulty with the Celeron Systems, but not processor troubles, chipsets only. All the Processors work very well. The one Chip I have heard some things about, and they were chipset dependant, was the K6-3, and that concerned the On-Chip L2 Cache and the resulting speed performance. Since AMD dropped the K6-3, there _may_ be some substance to those complaints; however, I have had reports of flawless multiyear performance from K6-3s as well. My Duron experience was _uninteresting_ AMD and Mandrake made it way too easy to set that one up. Civileme
[expert] Re: WD, CRC
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > Hi, > > Not realy sure what you mean by CRC when you talk about Western Digital > drives. Can you explain that to me? > > Thanks, > CRC or Cyclic Redundancy Check is a fingerprint of data. Etienne Galois in the late 1700s developed the mathematics upon which the technique is based. Across a channel which may have errors, the CRC "fingerprint " is unique enough that a small number of errors on a large block of data will generate a different CRC every time. A simple explanation of the pertinent mathematics of Algebraic coding theory as applied to a primitive monic polynomial in a Galois field of 2^n is here. (There is a more sophisticated use where a channel is KNOWN to be noisy, which uses multiplication of ALL the data by the polynomial and division on the receiving end which can recognize and correct a limited number of channel errors, sometimes called ECC, though ECC also includes Hamming Matrices and other techniques of lesser power and lesser demand on resources.) http://www.acius.com/ACIDOC/CMU/CMU79909.HTM OK how does this work on a HDD? The system sends a stream of data and calculates a CRC and appends it to the message. The (proper protocol compliant) HDD receives the data and calculates a CRC then compares that with the CRC received and complains if the CRC is a mismatch with the one received. WD receives and stores the CRC transmitted without any real check. Now in the reverse direction, most drives do not again calculate the CRC, though some do and compare it with the stored CRC at the end of the data block as a further data integrity check. Anyway--the system receives the data block from the disk and the stored CRC, and does its own CRC calculation Now here is where the CRC error may arise if the drive does not do its own CRC. If the data stream sent out had a channel error or more, then the CRC calculated from the drive data will not match the stored CRC sent back from the drive. Data is corrupt and the system complains, first requesting resend then getting the same erroneous data unless by random chance the channel errors somehow reverse on the transmission back to the computer. That is the way it was explained to me. I am not qualified as an expert in this area, only in the mathematics of it, not in the trade implementation. CRC errors _Rarely_ happen. On those rare occasions when they do, the receiving agency requests retransmission and all is well on the second try. But when one end of the connection simply accepts the other, it may receive and store data that will later test as no match to the stored CRC. As one learns with computers, odds of billions to one against an error don't say it won't happen but, using the Poisson distribution, you can calculate the probability of your most likely time of observing the error; so the odds against an error can tell you _When_ it will happen. Civileme
[expert] devfs and user authentication
I have Mandrake 7.1 install in two partitions on my hard drive. One is using linux-2.4.0-test4 and devfs. A couple of things happen when using devfs. One is that you can't log in directly as root. You can log into a user account and then use 'su root' so this is not a major obstacle. The other problem is you can't run startx from a user account or the root account. Both of these problems have solutions documented in the README file that comes as part of the documentation with the kernel. On my system it's in the directory: /usr/src/linux-2.4.0-test4/Documentation/filesystems/devfs/. The fix for the root log in problem is to edit the file /etc/securetty and add the following to the end of the file: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 The startx problem is fixed by editing the file /etc/security/console.perms and changing the line: =tty[0-9][0-9]* :[0-9]\.[0-9] [0-9] to =tty[0-9][0-9]* [0-9][0-9]* :[0-9]\.[0-9] [0-9] While the fixes listed in the README file worked with Mandrake 7.0 they have no effect with Mandrake 7.1. I would assume the staff at Mandrake has had some experience with this since the initialization script rc.sysinit is setup to start devfsd. I would appreciate any suggestions on how to work around these problems. Thanks, Brian Chamberlain
RE: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
Mandrake runs great on an Athlon - I'm doing right now, in fact. -Chris On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > I have had complaints from customers about the fact that mandrake is > compiled for the Pentium class systems when using an Athlon. Have any of > you had the same problem. My experience is with the K6-2 and K6-3. I want > to install on an Athlon but have my doubts. Any comments is appriciated. > > Debie Scholz > > -Original Message- > From: Ellick Chan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 9:02 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake > > > On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Sevatio Octavio wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:27:53 GMT > > From: Sevatio Octavio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake > > > > Are there any problems with using AMD chips for running Linux? > > > > Not as far as I've seen, I have a K6-2, K6, and an Athlon. They seem to > work as equally well as the Intel counterparts in everything I've tried so > far. > > > Seve > > > > -- > Regards, > > Ellick Chan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jul 22
[expert] KWinTV
Does Mandrake have an RPM for KWinTV to run the WinTV video Capture Card (PCI)? Thanks, Don
RE: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
I( have mandrake 6.5 & 7.1 running on AMD chips and no problems. 73, ttyl Don On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > I have had complaints from customers about the fact that mandrake is > compiled for the Pentium class systems when using an Athlon. Have any of > you had the same problem. My experience is with the K6-2 and K6-3. I want > to install on an Athlon but have my doubts. Any comments is appriciated. > > Debie Scholz > > -Original Message- > From: Ellick Chan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 9:02 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake > > > On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Sevatio Octavio wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:27:53 GMT > > From: Sevatio Octavio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake > > > > Are there any problems with using AMD chips for running Linux? > > > > Not as far as I've seen, I have a K6-2, K6, and an Athlon. They seem to > work as equally well as the Intel counterparts in everything I've tried so > far. > > > Seve > > > > -- > Regards, > > Ellick Chan > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jul 22
RE: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > I have had complaints from customers about the fact that mandrake is > compiled for the Pentium class systems when using an Athlon. Have any of > you had the same problem. My experience is with the K6-2 and K6-3. I want > to install on an Athlon but have my doubts. Any comments is appriciated. > An Athlon *IS* a 586-class CPU (or better.) IT should work just fine. Matter of fact, a friend of mine was having problems with his Windows box on his Athlon, but worked beauftifully under Linux. :-) John
RE: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
I have had complaints from customers about the fact that mandrake is compiled for the Pentium class systems when using an Athlon. Have any of you had the same problem. My experience is with the K6-2 and K6-3. I want to install on an Athlon but have my doubts. Any comments is appriciated. Debie Scholz -Original Message- From: Ellick Chan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 9:02 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Sevatio Octavio wrote: > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:27:53 GMT > From: Sevatio Octavio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake > > Are there any problems with using AMD chips for running Linux? > Not as far as I've seen, I have a K6-2, K6, and an Athlon. They seem to work as equally well as the Intel counterparts in everything I've tried so far. > Seve > -- Regards, Ellick Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jul 22
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, you wrote: > A disturbing trend in this modern age > is that we feel compelled to protect us from > ourselves. Microsoft offered up a convenient > black box that protected us from the horrors of > it's inner truth. Linux was to be the answer to > that ignorance-by-consent. > [snip] > > Many of us are upset that our former freedoms > have been robbed of us in the latest release. If > there was ever a higher purpose to the Linux > operating system, these changes are it's defeat. > You CAN still "play as root." It's just a bit more difficult. If you don't like it, install some other distro that's "wide open" (IF you can find one!) and run it! This is NOT just a "Mandrake" thing (not running as root) it's a *nix thing. AFAIK, you are strongly discouraged from running as "root" in BSD and SCO as well. Heck, even in RedHat there is a BIG notice when you first start up as "root" that you're running the Gnome file manager as "root" and that it's very dangerous. In ohter words, chill, dude! Just because Mandrake has gone a step further and made it more difficult to break things as root doesn't mean you've lost any freedom. You CAN by-pass those precautions. John
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
Is it ok if we piss on? I saw someone do that on a windows machine, I just hope the poor bugger had it unplugged!! On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: > Get a life, quit complaining. > > You don't like it? go use Suse, Slack or whatever... I DON'T CARE just piss > off. > > -- > +++ > Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > LNC - Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com > CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ > +++ > GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 > +++
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
I have been reading all of the problems that others have had with version 7.1 and sometimes think they are user caused. What we have to do is figure out the real cause of problems and then try and help. As with any OS, the user needs to understand how it works, and how her or his hardware fits in, and what must be done to make the OS compatible with the hardware. 73, & ttyl Don On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, you wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Ken Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:39 PM > Subject: Re: [expert] Freedoms Past > > > . > >> > > Some of the recent threads on this list are getting a little old. If you > want > > easy of installation and hand holding, go buy a box with Windows > pre-installed. > > If you want a stable OS which allows you the freedoms to tweak your system > as > > you see fit, then be prepared to do just that. You can't have it both > ways. > > Mandrake has a great installation program and it keeps getting better > (thanks > > guys), but you still can't just put a cd in the drive and come back an > hour > > later and fire it up. Of course I haven't been able to do a fresh install > of > > Windows on a new drive that way either. > > > > > Apparently this is the claim of a new distro - MaxOS - just 12 minutes from > show to go. > > It'll be interesting to see just how they install. > > Hoyt
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
That is what I have been trying to say, obviously unsuccessfully. Thanks! Bambi Charles Curley wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 06:16:53PM -0400, Fireman71 wrote: > > Hmmm, i run root all the time and will continue to do so. couple of reasons. > > I got tired of typing su and sudo about every 3rd command. I got tired of not > > being able to cd into some of my directories. > > A reasonable complaint. May I suggest a more secure way to handle it? > > If you run X, run multiple desktops. I run eight, and often use them > all. From the desktop, lauch a shell, then su - to each user you need open > (except for the user under which you launched X). I have a desktop for > root which usually has a couple of xterms and a copy of emacs running. I > have several desktops for my personal login, ccurley, and two for ssh > logins to other systems on my network, as needed. > > This way, root is a rodent click away. This is less secure than insisting > on using su - or sudo all the time, but much easier. > > To secure the root window when I am not around, I have secured my desktop > with a password enforced screen saver. This, even though I work in my home > office and have excellent physical security for my facility. > > If you work without X, you can get the same effect with multiple open > consoles. > > > > > When i make a mistake as root and wipe out half my file system, so what, its no > > big deal to me. I am not NASA or the pentagon. I am a, in my opinion, typical > > homeuser. There is nothing installed on my system that would cause the world to > > end if it gets erased or deleted. It would only be me spending my time > > reinstalling everything. Big deal. Now yes i can see this when you get into > > systems that have several users, or at places such as banks, universities, > > governments, etc. But for the typical home user i dont see that it is that big a > > deal to run root so long as they arent going to go crying and whining that they > > erased half their files. If they are willing to accept that chance on their own > > machines i say get off their back and let them. > > On the face of it, this appears to be a reasonable argument, except: I > guarantee that you will acquire bad habits. > > Let me give you an analogy: the first rule of firearm safety is that all > guns are assumed to be loaded at all times, unless you know for a fact > from your own inspection that 1) a gun is unloaded, and 2) it has not left > your sight. Get in the habit of acting on that assumption, and you will be > much safer around firearms. > > Some folks tell me they think that is overly paranoid. Fine. I'd rather > clear a gun unnecessarily than have an accidental discharge (AD). > > OK, an AD can do far more damage than you wiping out your hard > drive. Still, restoring your system, even assuming you have backups (you > do have backups, don't you?), is a bloody nuisance. I'd rather switch to > root from time to time than do a restore. > > It comes down to your habits. I'd rather have safe habits and running as > root is an unsafe habit. If you have unsafe habits like that, remind me > not to hire you for anything at all. I'd have to wonder what other unsafe > habits you have. > > -- > > -- C^2 > > No windows were crashed in the making of this email. > > Looking for fine software and/or web pages? > http://w3.trib.com/~ccurley > > >Part 1.2Type: application/pgp-signature
[expert] WD, CRC
Hi, Not realy sure what you mean by CRC when you talk about Western Digital drives. Can you explain that to me? Thanks, Don
[expert]
Not realy sure what you mean by CRC when you talk about Western Digital drives. Can you explain that to me? Thanks, Don
Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Sevatio Octavio wrote: > Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 10:27:53 GMT > From: Sevatio Octavio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake > > Are there any problems with using AMD chips for running Linux? > Not as far as I've seen, I have a K6-2, K6, and an Athlon. They seem to work as equally well as the Intel counterparts in everything I've tried so far. > Seve > -- Regards, Ellick Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jul 22
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 06:16:53PM -0400, Fireman71 wrote: > Hmmm, i run root all the time and will continue to do so. couple of reasons. > I got tired of typing su and sudo about every 3rd command. I got tired of not > being able to cd into some of my directories. A reasonable complaint. May I suggest a more secure way to handle it? If you run X, run multiple desktops. I run eight, and often use them all. From the desktop, lauch a shell, then su - to each user you need open (except for the user under which you launched X). I have a desktop for root which usually has a couple of xterms and a copy of emacs running. I have several desktops for my personal login, ccurley, and two for ssh logins to other systems on my network, as needed. This way, root is a rodent click away. This is less secure than insisting on using su - or sudo all the time, but much easier. To secure the root window when I am not around, I have secured my desktop with a password enforced screen saver. This, even though I work in my home office and have excellent physical security for my facility. If you work without X, you can get the same effect with multiple open consoles. > > When i make a mistake as root and wipe out half my file system, so what, its no > big deal to me. I am not NASA or the pentagon. I am a, in my opinion, typical > homeuser. There is nothing installed on my system that would cause the world to > end if it gets erased or deleted. It would only be me spending my time > reinstalling everything. Big deal. Now yes i can see this when you get into > systems that have several users, or at places such as banks, universities, > governments, etc. But for the typical home user i dont see that it is that big a > deal to run root so long as they arent going to go crying and whining that they > erased half their files. If they are willing to accept that chance on their own > machines i say get off their back and let them. On the face of it, this appears to be a reasonable argument, except: I guarantee that you will acquire bad habits. Let me give you an analogy: the first rule of firearm safety is that all guns are assumed to be loaded at all times, unless you know for a fact from your own inspection that 1) a gun is unloaded, and 2) it has not left your sight. Get in the habit of acting on that assumption, and you will be much safer around firearms. Some folks tell me they think that is overly paranoid. Fine. I'd rather clear a gun unnecessarily than have an accidental discharge (AD). OK, an AD can do far more damage than you wiping out your hard drive. Still, restoring your system, even assuming you have backups (you do have backups, don't you?), is a bloody nuisance. I'd rather switch to root from time to time than do a restore. It comes down to your habits. I'd rather have safe habits and running as root is an unsafe habit. If you have unsafe habits like that, remind me not to hire you for anything at all. I'd have to wonder what other unsafe habits you have. -- -- C^2 No windows were crashed in the making of this email. Looking for fine software and/or web pages? http://w3.trib.com/~ccurley PGP signature
[expert] Problems solved, Linux working now.
Hi, I got some advice on how to fix my problem when I tried to upgrade my 2.2.14-15mdk kernel on Mandrake 7.0. I dont have access to that specific email right now since it is on my windows partiton...so I can not contact you personally just yet, but thanks for the help but had to reinstall. Somehow when I upgraded my kernel I screwed up lilo.conf and did not list the correct bootable kernel. When I tried to reboot, it would just freeze. I could boot from floppy but could never fix lilo.conf. Tools I needed, vi, lilo, ed, I could see but they would not work at all. cp, mv cat and the like did. Finally I just decided to reinstall 7.0 and an update. It took four tried because I could not update lilo.conf and it demanded kernels to be in /boot that were not there. So I did a cp on the main kernel (bootable) and renamed it to the kernels lilo.conf wanted (probably a better way, but I could not find one). Any way, I am up and running now. Best Regards, Bruce
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
The first thing a hacker wants to do when attacking your system is to gain root access so he can exploit you system completely. If you are running your system at root already you have saved him a lot of time and trouble. Also, to be effective a virus needs root access. When viruses start showing up against Linux, and they will as Linux gains more popularity, look out. By not using root all the time you can contain the virus to the user space is was collected in and the majority of the system will be unaffected. Root is very dangerous and I usually take my system off-line when using it. Best Regards, Bruce
Re: [expert] Mandrake's Arrogance
Sean, When configuring and doing things where root IS NEEDED is the exception obviously! I am talking about as a normal user. Of course you have to configure, tweak, install, etc. in root...THAT'S ITS JOB to administer the system. But when you are doing user stuff, like going online to get email, run browser/email programs, listen to online streams, IRC, ICQ, GAIM, whatever you are a user and being the root administrator is foolish. If you need administrator/root privileges...while you are user...it is right there...su in...do what you need and exit. What's the problem? Bambi Sean Middleditch wrote: > > Fran Parker wrote: > > > Not everyone wants or needs to take the kind of chances you do. > > Not everyone wants or needs to, as you suggest, reinstall due to > > running as root and opening yourself up to invasion and loss. > > Not everyone wants or needs to take the unnecessary time to do > > that...su is not hard! > > I think you're being just a tad over-dramatic there... I have to run as root for very > long periods of time (setting a server for DNS+HTTPD+dial in, and copying a Support > Web system I made over, and setting up MySQL... about 4 hours logged in only as root > getting this all set up) and never have any problems. The only serious issue I've > had so far is when I installed my new motherboard, and that's because I deleted the > parition /boot was mounted to (it needed to be redone to install lilo, since I wasn't > using another hard-drive as primary any more). Other than that, I've never screwed > up a system as root. > > > If everyone wanted this kind of abuse ... they could have stayed > > with Windows and gotten all they wanted!
Re: [expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
I've had none, Works better than with Windows. AMD K6-2 450 192MB SDRAM on a FIC-503+ Motherboard. Sevatio Octavio wrote: > > Are there any problems with using AMD chips for running Linux? > > Seve
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
AMEN! Pelon wrote: > > A disturbing trend in this modern age > is that we feel compelled to protect us from > ourselves. Microsoft offered up a convenient > black box that protected us from the horrors of > it's inner truth. Linux was to be the answer to > that ignorance-by-consent. > > I began using Linux over two years ago for the > sole reason that I could see inside. I could > break it, rebuild it, tease it, and shape it as I > pleased. I could play god, or "root" as it were. > > But now that the general public has turned on to > Linux, there are pressures to see it controlled. > No one wants to see anyone hurt themselves. The > public must be protected. > > As Mandrake, Redhat, or any other distribution > begins to feel the heat of a distraught public, > certain measures must be taken. Mandrake's new > security restrictions are what the public is > asking for. > > Many of us are upset that our former freedoms > have been robbed of us in the latest release. If > there was ever a higher purpose to the Linux > operating system, these changes are it's defeat. > > I would recommend two new classes of installation: > > 1. protect me from myself > 2. let me be free > > pelon
[expert] AMD Chips and Mandrake
Are there any problems with using AMD chips for running Linux? Seve
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > Better yet, quit complaining and start your own distribution. You can > even base it off of Mandrake. Then you can patch it and make it > "yours" since your way is obviously better than the Mandrake > designers. YEAH, and we can remove the need to log in at all, - just open a root session automatically, and give the end user the power to screw himself and shoot himself in the foot anytime he wants, and we can call this distribution Dick head Linux, or maybe, dare I say it Windows I Agree 100% with Matthew here, - get a life, and fix it if you don't like it. I have used Slackware, Redhat, Suse, debian and Mandrake, been subscribed to all of their lists, and have found the people that frequent the Mandrake lists to be the biggest babies (The people that complain about Mandrake, you know who you are). Get a life, quit complaining. You don't like it? go use Suse, Slack or whatever... I DON'T CARE just piss off. more people to put in my kill file -- +++ Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> LNC - Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ +++ GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 +++
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 11:44:32PM -0400, Hoyt wrote: > Apparently this is the claim of a new distro - MaxOS - just 12 minutes from > show to go. > > It'll be interesting to see just how they install. I can speak from experience here since I installed it one machine and watched it get installed on another while talking around with the CEO and the President (helps when they're in the same city). It does do as it claims... as soon as you select a partition, you walk away and come back in 12 minutes. *However* the drawbacks are all packages are pre-selected for you, you can't do any fine-tuning until you get into the system, and the installer is quite ugly (way too many flourecent colors!). Beyond that, however, I think MaxOS will be the new newbies distro because of it's super-easy install. Mind you, if Mandrake tried to do the same thing, we'd lose many many users. MaxOS is so simple as to be *too* simple. And it only comes with KDE (ugh). No GNOME. =( -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net Freezer Burn BBS: telnet://bbs.freezer-burn.org . ICQ: 54924721 Webmaster for the Linux Portal Site Freezer Burn: http://www.freezer-burn.org Current Linux uptime: 1 day 3 hours 7 minutes.
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 05:10:22PM -0400, Pelon wrote: [... much deleted ...] > I would recommend two new classes of installation: > > 1. protect me from myself > 2. let me be free These already exist. They're called security levels. You can have super tight so you can hardly login or do anything, or you can have super loose and invite the world to party on your machine. That's been there since 7.0. =) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net Freezer Burn BBS: telnet://bbs.freezer-burn.org . ICQ: 54924721 Webmaster for the Linux Portal Site Freezer Burn: http://www.freezer-burn.org Current Linux uptime: 1 day 3 hours 5 minutes.
