[FairfieldLife] Combative perspective (was Re: Subtle energy awareness)

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  
> 
> Well at least you got to use an "OMG". That must have been 
> satisfying for you.

I doubt it, dude. Seems like more of an addiction to me.

Five posts in the first couple of hours of the new posting
week. Two trying to start a fight with you, one trying to
start a fight with Vaj, one trying to start a fight with
do.rflex, and one (go figure!) trying to start a fight
with JohnR. Five out of five, ALL trying to (as you say)
create a combative perspective.

What do you think...can she post anything this week
that *isn't* trying to start a fight?  :-)

[FairfieldLife] For Card -- The Saga Of Biorn

[turquoiseb]

A wonderful 7-minute film done by The Animation Project
in Denmark, this chronicles the efforts of the great
warrior Biorn to die a noble warrior's death and get 
into Valhalla. Funny, well-done, and with a moral:
watch out for Biôrn-agains when picking people to save.

http://www.scandinavianaggression.com/centrum/2011/04/the-saga-of-biorn.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> > > > > to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> > > > > valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> > > > > disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> > > > > describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> > > > > this belief system.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> > > > > a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> > > > > manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> > > > > people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> > > > > (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> > > > > in scriptures.)
> > > > 
> > > > False dichotomy.
> > > 
> > > I wasn't presenting them as a dichotomy but as a place to
> > > start the discussion.
> > 
> > As a place to start the discussion, it's inadequate
> > because it leaves out a major perspective.
> 
> Thus the term "start".
> 
> > 
> > >  There's a whole field of psychotherapy
> > > > in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
> > > > various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
> > > > se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
> > > > seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
> > > > as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
> > > > along with standard psychotherapy.
> > > 
> 
> > > So these are licensed mental health professionals who
> > > are using this model in their practice or spiritual
> > > people with psychotherapy training?
> > 
> > I haven't checked their credentials, Curtis. I got the
> > impression at least some of them were trained in
> > psychotherapy and licensed and have chosen to use this
> > approach in their practice.
> > 
> > > I wonder about the ethics if the first
> > 
> > OMG, that is hilarious.
> 
> People whose trust by the public is based on their
> credentials certified by the state as a mental health
> authority adding in a field of speculation that has
> no oversight or even standard definitions is a
> violation of the ethical trust their position holds.
> How you find this funny is beyond me.

It's funny because you don't know what the hell you're
talking about.

>From an article on the standard of care in psychotherapy
and counseling (be good to read the introduction too,
but the quoted paragraphs are specifically relevant here):

-
The standard of care is a particularly difficult
issue in psychotherapy, as there are hundreds of 
different orientations and approaches to treatment 
(Lambert, 1991). Each is based on a different 
theoretical orientation, a different methodology, 
philosophy, belief system and even worldview. Beyond 
the agreements of do not harm, and do not have sex 
with current clients, and always respect clients' 
dignity, autonomy and privacy, there is no consensus 
on how to intervene, help or heal. For example there 
is no one standard, or method or way for the 
treatment of anxiety. Psychoanalysis, cognitive-
behavioral, existential, biologically based 
psychiatry, Gestalt and pastoral counseling all 
define, explain and treat the anxiety in very 
different terms. Not one of them will follow the 
others' standards

The "respected minority" doctrine also applies to 
new techniques, which as yet do not have well 
established scientific or research support.  This 
provision allows for new or "experimental" 
psychotherapeutic techniques to be carefully, 
cautiously and ethically employed even though the 
theories and/or practices are still being developed 
and tested. Most successful and effective techniques 
started out as "experimental or "alternative" 
techniques prior to being tested, validated, 
recognized, and employed on a broad scale
-

http://www.zurinstitute.com/standardofcaretherapy.html 

It's simply not the case that state mental health
authorities say you can do A, B, C, and D kinds of
therapy, but not W, X, Y, and Z. It's just not an
ethics issue which approach a therapist uses. As long
as the basics--"do not harm, and do not have sex with
current clients, and always respect clients' dignity,
autonomy and privacy"--are observed, you get to
choose your own approach; you aren't required to pick
from a list of state-approved therapies.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Yifu]

Vetting by resume can be helpful, but the bottom line: direct experience. Vaj's 
family judged the book by the cover and thus missed out on something; a 
frequent happenstance among intellectual elites who fail to take the plunge.  
The Skeptic Michael Shermer is a typical example, although he did have some 
experience as an Evangelical Christian before becoming a athiest.
http://www.fantasygallery.net/bohbot/art_5_arx-fatalis.html



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> 
> > That's a really good question, but I suspect my answer might seem a
> lot simpler than you expected. Really the criteria should be no
> different from any other professional you might want to hire. All of my
> current teachers had a period of study, often in college, where they
> learned (often memorized) the intellectual bases for what they were to
> teach. Every initiation they received, was documented: who they received
> it from, what their practice experience was and what the initiations
> consisted of and then how much practical experience they had to realize
> the teachings they received. For none of them is there some nebulous "I
> was the secretary of a famous yogi", but precise, verifiable
> information.
> 
> Warning:  Grammatically Challenged Reply:
> 
> 
> I kind of get the impression that you are describing a very linear
> process.  And my experience on what I would call the "spiritual journey"
> has been anything but.  And the one thing I don't, or won't do is doubt
> my experience.  I don't care if I'm stuck in some pseudo/shallow samadhi
> during meditation, or if I am stuck on some relative plane with little
> chance of progressing in my outer life.  I am enjoying the ride, and I
> try to live in the present.  I trust my experience, and it has been my
> teacher.  Whether I have a formal teacher doesn't matter to me. 
> Sometimes I get the impression that the credentials of your teachers
> mean more than the experiences you might have.  What I would never do is
> try to pick apart my experinece and determine if the faculty of
> intuition that has been the foremost principle for me is based on the
> highest teaching, or something lesser.  On the other hand, whatever you
> are doing seems to work for you.
> 
> And I guess you must have taken a pretty big bite out of the TM apple
> because if you would have just looked at it, and walked away, I don't 
> think you would be such a heavy poster on this site.  Having said that,
> I mostly enjoy your insights.  But you seem to take a more formal, or
> academic approach which doesn't really appeal to me.
> 
> 
> > And really, that's the way it should be. I want to see their resume
> and see if they are actually qualified in theory and in practice. If
> they're not, I may still be interested, but they'd have to possess
> extraordinary characteristics. As a westerner, I demand this type of
> documentation for my teachers. On top of that, their orgs should
> preferably be non-hierarchical and totally, have 100% transparency.
> >
> > It would really be very difficult for me to be involved with anything
> less.
> >
> > A great example of what I'm talking about would be current author,
> meditation teacher and researcher Alan Wallace. Check out his list of
> publications and teachings he received. IME this is typical. Legit
> teachers do maintain a working CV.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Goddess

[Yifu]

http://www.fantasygallery.net/campus/art_4_goddess.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[seventhray1]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:

> That's a really good question, but I suspect my answer might seem a
lot simpler than you expected. Really the criteria should be no
different from any other professional you might want to hire. All of my
current teachers had a period of study, often in college, where they
learned (often memorized) the intellectual bases for what they were to
teach. Every initiation they received, was documented: who they received
it from, what their practice experience was and what the initiations
consisted of and then how much practical experience they had to realize
the teachings they received. For none of them is there some nebulous "I
was the secretary of a famous yogi", but precise, verifiable
information.

Warning:  Grammatically Challenged Reply:


I kind of get the impression that you are describing a very linear
process.  And my experience on what I would call the "spiritual journey"
has been anything but.  And the one thing I don't, or won't do is doubt
my experience.  I don't care if I'm stuck in some pseudo/shallow samadhi
during meditation, or if I am stuck on some relative plane with little
chance of progressing in my outer life.  I am enjoying the ride, and I
try to live in the present.  I trust my experience, and it has been my
teacher.  Whether I have a formal teacher doesn't matter to me. 
Sometimes I get the impression that the credentials of your teachers
mean more than the experiences you might have.  What I would never do is
try to pick apart my experinece and determine if the faculty of
intuition that has been the foremost principle for me is based on the
highest teaching, or something lesser.  On the other hand, whatever you
are doing seems to work for you.

And I guess you must have taken a pretty big bite out of the TM apple
because if you would have just looked at it, and walked away, I don't 
think you would be such a heavy poster on this site.  Having said that,
I mostly enjoy your insights.  But you seem to take a more formal, or
academic approach which doesn't really appeal to me.


> And really, that's the way it should be. I want to see their resume
and see if they are actually qualified in theory and in practice. If
they're not, I may still be interested, but they'd have to possess
extraordinary characteristics. As a westerner, I demand this type of
documentation for my teachers. On top of that, their orgs should
preferably be non-hierarchical and totally, have 100% transparency.
>
> It would really be very difficult for me to be involved with anything
less.
>
> A great example of what I'm talking about would be current author,
meditation teacher and researcher Alan Wallace. Check out his list of
publications and teachings he received. IME this is typical. Legit
teachers do maintain a working CV.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[tartbrain]

Great Balls of Fire -- Jerry Lee Lewis

You shake my nerves and you rattle my brain
Too much love drives a man insane
You broke my will, oh what a thrill
Goodness gracious great balls of fire

(Sounds like a typical weekend retreat with SSRS and/or others)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
>
> Maharishi was a Blazing Ball of Brahman. Jim's and Ravi's balls are smaller!
> 
> --- On Thu, 3/31/11, turquoiseb  wrote:
> 
> From: turquoiseb 
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] The sweet speech of the enlightened
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, March 31, 2011, 7:27 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following post is Turq taking advantage of a power outage at work that 
> disallows any work to have some fun. Be warned. :-)
> 
> Since both Jim and Ravi seem to be having some trouble understanding why some 
> here don't quite buy their claims of egolessness and enlightenment, I just 
> thought I'd 1) provide a short quote from Maharishi on the subject of the 
> speech of the enlightened, and 2) go back to look at only the first few words 
> (the ones that appear in Yahoo's Message View) of a few of the 64 posts they 
> made during the first 30 hours of this FFL posting week, during which they 
> were indulging in a bit of a "feeding frenzy" by dissing other FFL posters, 
> all of whom are coincidentally often described by Judy Stein as "TM critics" 
> or "anti-TMers," and all of whom (again coincidentally) are among the most 
> highly-placed on her own personal Enemies List and subjects of her own "sweet 
> speech." 
> 
> Naturally, I will not include any of Judy's own language from the 24 posts 
> she made during the this "feeding frenzy" period, even though some of it is 
> of the same ilk, because after all, she has never made any claims of being 
> enlightened. Nor have any of the TM critics being talked about so sweetly 
> below. Jim and Ravi, on the other hand, both claim to be enlightened. You 
> decide.
> 
> From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> 
> "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has to be 
> clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best, life-supporting 
> to the whole of the environment. ... This is the technique of the art of 
> speaking: that, although we are truthful in our thinking and speaking, the 
> words that come out must be pleasing, soft, and of good quality. ... The 
> habit of speaking pleasingly lies in cultivating that nature, that 
> politeness, that softness and kindness of heart that will not at any time 
> produce harshness of speech. ... Blessed are they who speak sweet words."
> 
> Quotes by Sri Sri Jim Flanegin (whynotnow7@):
> 
> Re Turq: "Turq, you must be wetting your pants with excitement - Curtis is 
> back and Judy is about to be!!! Do they have Depends (adult diapers) in 
> Amsterdam?"
> 
> Re Turq: "Turq just cannot deal with the fact that adults allow themselves to 
> post at any time in a 24 hour day." (posted at 2:21 AM his time)
> 
> Re Turq: "Ravi, Joe has a similar control freak nature as Turq in this case - 
> no drinking on-line and get to bed on time dammit! These things are 
> important." (posted at 2:42 AM his time)
> 
> Re Turq: "Paleeze respond to this guy Judy! He is practically begging you - 
> he needs the sharp crack of your crop on his exposed buttocks - lives for 
> it..." (posted at 2:48 AM his time)
> 
> Re enlightenment: "Also, how can a *theory* ever be true? Either the reality 
> is lived, or it isn't." (posted at 2:52 AM his time, included for its Irony 
> Factor)
> 
> Re Vaj: "F*ck statistics and research dude - You proclaim yourself the Big 
> Buddhist here, so didn't the Buddha say something like believe nothing that 
> you hear and only..." (posted at 4:39 AM his time)
> 
> Re Vaj: "Careful Vajrah-doodah, you just tipped your hand - frightened of 
> liberation, eh? LOL - Seems as translucent as toilet tissue to me, but others 
> may have bought..." (posted at 7:27 AM his time)
> 
> Re Vaj: "Ha-ha, yeah the grotesque nature of spiritual fakers cracks me up - 
> such a bizarre phenomenon when the isolated ego co-opts the process of 
> sadhana." (posted at 7:28 AM his time, again included for its Irony Factor)
> 
> Quotes by Sri Sri Ravi Yogi (raviyogi@):
> 
> Re Turq, et al: "Barry's got this right - retards like him, Mike and Curtis 
> lead such pathetic lives that their lives revolve around attacking TM. Its 
> quite obvious..."
> 
> Re Turq, et al: "He can't, he knows there is something but he didn't get it 
> when the Guru was alive. Now he feels like a jilted lover - pathetic retards 
> - Barry, Curtis and now..."
> 
> Re Turq: "...pussies are just not tolerated here, learn from Barry. Take your 
> shit elsewhere..."
> 
> Re Mike: "...shutdown your whorehouse(blogs attacking Gurus) and go home to 
> your beloved(Self)"
> 
> Re Mike: "Let go of the mental masturbation, just f

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> > > > to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> > > > 
> > > > 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> > > > valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> > > > disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> > > > describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> > > > this belief system.
> > > > 
> > > > 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> > > > a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> > > > manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> > > > people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> > > > (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> > > > in scriptures.)
> > > 
> > > False dichotomy.
> > 
> > I wasn't presenting them as a dichotomy but as a place to
> > start the discussion.
> 
> As a place to start the discussion, it's inadequate
> because it leaves out a major perspective.

Thus the term "start".

> 
> >  There's a whole field of psychotherapy
> > > in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
> > > various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
> > > se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
> > > seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
> > > as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
> > > along with standard psychotherapy.
> > 

> > So these are licensed mental health professionals who
> > are using this model in their practice or spiritual
> > people with psychotherapy training?
> 
> I haven't checked their credentials, Curtis. I got the
> impression at least some of them were trained in
> psychotherapy and licensed and have chosen to use this
> approach in their practice.
> 
> > I wonder about the ethics if the first
> 
> OMG, that is hilarious.

People whose trust by the public is based on their credentials certified by the 
state as a mental health authority adding in a field of speculation that has no 
oversight or even standard definitions is a violation of the ethical trust 
their position holds.  How you find this funny is beyond me.

> 
> > and the training basis for the second.
> > 
> > > The two systems are seen as complementary, in other words.
> > > The chakra experiences are assumed to be very real but can
> > > be signs of mental disorders if they're causing distress,
> > > but also of spiritual progress if they're not.
> > 
> > I can understand that some people may believe this.  I am
> > not sure they are speaking with the full authority of the
> > people who license mental health professionals.
> 
> As is this.
> 
>   And how
> > does a person know that they are dealing with an expert
> > in the area of "chakras"?  There is no standard of
> > knowledge to use as a reference.
> > 
> > So I don't see how this solves the issues I brought up.
> 
> I don't believe I suggested that it "solves" anything.
> Please don't put words in my mouth.

Creating a combative perspective out of nothing.  

Well at least you got to use an "OMG". That must have been satisfying for you.


> 
> 
> 
> 
>   We are still left winging it with an area that seems to have 
> profound consequences in mental health.
> > 
> > Do you have a person who from your search seems to represent the 
> needed knowledge in both areas that you think would inspire 
> confidence?  I don't doubt that a search will lead to plenty of 
> people making such claims. How could we evaluate such claims of 
> this specialized knowledge?
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 1, 2011, at 1:31 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> > 
> >> Basically the only people who are doing this do a lengthy  
> >> psychological evaluation and profile, along with long questionnaire  
> >> and interview of all the various developmental issues one dealt with  
> >> in their lives. Then and only then do they engage in a two week  
> >> retreat to evaluate what type of diversion (of kundalini) the person  
> >> may have or where their spiritual path can best progress from.
> > 
> > I was hoping you would respond Vaj because I know you have given a lot of 
> > thought to this issue.  I don't know if two weeks is the right amount of 
> > time, having spent much longer on TM courses it seems a bit short. But what 
> > do I know!
> 
> Understand they're looking for a known set of signs as to what has happened 
> and what the student's experience is. Also, each of the two people I'm 
> referring to possesses a degree of awakening where they're able to discern 
> the students system at a subtle level. A full awakening of kundalini implies 
> a level of awakening where you're able to enter and experience each petal, 
> each channel wheel, at will. In other words, 'they've been there, did that' 
> before they authorized to really even teach about it, let alone help someone.
> 
> > 
> >> 
> >> Of course the best thing to prevent to do to prevent this from  
> >> happening in the first place is to avoid disreputable teachers like 
> >> the plague.
> > 
> > This is the problem isn't it?  by what criteria could a person judge this?  
> > It seems that every system has their own criteria.  For Maharishi if you 
> > dug you experience of TM then you could go for more, dig that, here is more 
> > and on and on.  Personal experience is so compelling it is hard for a 
> > person to argue that even with these experiences I have made a mistake and 
> > need to seek someone else.
> 
> The limiting factor in my case was my family. They'd dealt with and known 
> various yogis and lamas in the Himalayas for many decades before I was born. 
> None of them, not one trusted Mahesh. ALL refused any instruction in TM.
> 
> And, of course, it turned out they were right.
> 
> My own investigation was pretty easy: I approached representatives of the 
> order he claimed to come from and simply asked them. Around the same time, 
> back in the 80's I found out from a former Shankaracharya that Mahesh was a 
> leading suspect in the poisoning of SBS. Shortly thereafter the "businessman" 
> in the Sexy Sadie files, who is a close friend, told me the details of 
> Judith's story immediately after they met.
> 
> It was clear there were numerous others teaching in the same lineage who were 
> legit. SO I dropped any association with the TM movement right then and 
> there. But I was and always have been very, very fortunate: all I had to do 
> was ask, and it was as if the answers fell into my lap.
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> >  This type of scenario is largely the by-product of faux  
> >> kundalini yoga and meditation teachers IME. From the POV of these  
> >> traditions, being trapped in such an energetic state can mean  
> >> transmigration through the "lower realms" over many, many lives. I  
> >> hope they enjoyed their hopping on foam a hell of a lot.
> > 
> > Ouch!  I sure did my share of foam hopping in my day.  I'm not sure any 
> > human could make this claim definitively (I understand you are quoting the 
> > tradition here.)  It seems to imply a knowledge of a lot of stuff I'm not 
> > sure people could demonstrate a knowledge of. (like everything that happens 
> > after death or whether TM actually does activate the "faux kundlini". 
> > (phrase of the week IMO!)
> 
> Well, I'm not necessarily referring to you or to sidhas in general, but those 
> who were damaged by these practices. You may not be aware, but the tantric 
> teachings on kundalini state that if your kundalini was awakened in a 
> previous existence, you maintain that awakening across existences. IMO the 
> people who seem to be effected negatively were all people whose initial 
> awakening occurred as a result of TM or TM-sidhi practices. That's not to say 
> that some people could not or do not have positive awakening experiences with 
> TM. If the circumstances are just right, anything is possible -- but IMO, 
> that kinda thing is rare.
> 
> > But I'm sure you get the issue that even such teachers that you consider 
> > experts may not have the expertise necessary to deal with people with 
> > mental disorders who come to their courses.
> 
> Some would, some would not. That is improving. It's relatively common to have 
> a psychiatric question or two on course forms: "do you currently or have you 
> ever had any of the following..."
> 
> 
> > But with an interest in the idea of choosing a reputable teacher, how would 
> > a person go about such a ta

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Yifu]

right...#11 - give up the previous 10.
http://www.fantasygallery.net/campus/art_5_gibbering-gout.html

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> >
> > HHDL on the ten signs of losing nonduality or rigpa, the natural state:
> > 
> > When experiences like these [of nonduality] arise, there are also  
> > spiritual traps,
> > which are said to be "the greatest ways in which nonduality is
> > bound". There are countless variations of these spiritual
> > traps, but Longchen Rabjam summarizes them as a group of
> > ten.
> > 
> > They are:
> > 
> > 1. The trap of being bound by concepts;
> > 2. The trap of being bound in non-conceptual states;
> > 3. The trap of being caught up in effort;
> > 4. The trap of grasping at appearances as true;
> > 5. The trap of seeking elsewhere for ultimate truth;
> > 6. The trap of grasping at empty forms as having
> > characteristics:
> > 7. The trap of the view of emptiness that loses sight of the true  
> > nature;
> > 8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your `realization';
> > 9. The trap of meditation on `voidness', as futile as throwing
> > a stone in the dark;
> > 10. The trap of enduring suffering because you are missing
> > the key points.
> >
> 
> Terminology is always a hurdle (yes, I am sure #11 is "Seeing terminology as 
> a hurdle". Non-duality to me means the equivalent to TMO BC. These hurdles 
> seem more, or at least as relevant, for CC type of state. Does this list mean 
> CC? (And if so why is it termed non duality. To me CC is the epitome of 
> duality. Self and other.)
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> HHDL on the ten signs of losing nonduality or rigpa, the natural state:
> 
> When experiences like these [of nonduality] arise, there are also  
> spiritual traps,
> which are said to be "the greatest ways in which nonduality is
> bound". There are countless variations of these spiritual
> traps, but Longchen Rabjam summarizes them as a group of
> ten.
> 
> They are:
> 
> 1. The trap of being bound by concepts;
> 2. The trap of being bound in non-conceptual states;
> 3. The trap of being caught up in effort;
> 4. The trap of grasping at appearances as true;
> 5. The trap of seeking elsewhere for ultimate truth;
> 6. The trap of grasping at empty forms as having
> characteristics:
> 7. The trap of the view of emptiness that loses sight of the true  
> nature;
> 8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your `realization';
> 9. The trap of meditation on `voidness', as futile as throwing
> a stone in the dark;
> 10. The trap of enduring suffering because you are missing
> the key points.
>

Terminology is always a hurdle (yes, I am sure #11 is "Seeing terminology as a 
hurdle". Non-duality to me means the equivalent to TMO BC. These hurdles seem 
more, or at least as relevant, for CC type of state. Does this list mean CC? 
(And if so why is it termed non duality. To me CC is the epitome of duality. 
Self and other.)  

[FairfieldLife] Re: The authenticity of the human being . . .

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex"  wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> > 
> > I watched a few minutes of this video.  I think it's the
> > typical boring, "I'm going to make a difference" video,
> > and likely made for the ego gratification of the person
> > making it.  
> 
> I recommend that you watch the whole thing. You appear to 
> completely miss the guy's point.

The interviews are fine, it's his introduction that's
obnoxious and patronizing, and just plain wrong. He
obviously thought he was going to surprise everybody by
showing that there are folks riding the subway in NYC
who are intelligent and thoughtful. But no New Yorker
I know would find that the least bit surprising. If
others are gobsmacked by it, they need to look at their
own biases.

> > Personally I like my alone time,
> > and when I have it, I don't care to interact with people
> > and I generally don't care to make eye contact.

New Yorkers respect each other's privacy. They have
to. When you're sharing public space with hundreds of 
complete strangers every day, you have to be able to
refrain from interacting if you don't feel like it,
or you'd go stark raving bonkers.

But New Yorkers are also as chatty and friendly as
anybody else when they're in the mood. I lived in
NYC for over 50 years, took the subway all the time.
I had innumerable conversations and friendly
interactions.

This dude wanted to show how humane and sensitive
he was, as if he had been able to recognize
something that had never occurred to anybody else.
If he cut the intro and just left the interviews,
it would be a nice video.

  I would
> > consider what he is doing a real intrusion if I were
> > sitting alone on the subway.

And some people are intimidated by having a camera and
microphone shoved in their face. Other people, once
they start talking, you can't shut them up.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[Tom Pall]

On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 2:02 PM, WillyTex  wrote:

> "Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's
> issue of the journal Science that excavations show
> hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site
> and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other
> tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early
> as 15,500 years ago..."
>
> Read more:
>
> 'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back
> Arrival of Humans in America'
> New York Times, March 24, 2011
> http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r
>
>
>
I'm sorry.  I looked quickly at the post, thought it said "Pro-Obama Site
Discovered", thought it might be something from the Onion.I went through
the entire post before I looked back at the subject.

Nevermind.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
 wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
 wrote:
> > >
> > > These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> > > to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> > > 
> > > 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> > > valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> > > disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> > > describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> > > this belief system.
> > > 
> > > 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> > > a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> > > manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> > > people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> > > (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> > > in scriptures.)
> > 
> > False dichotomy.
> 
> I wasn't presenting them as a dichotomy but as a place to
> start the discussion.

As a place to start the discussion, it's inadequate
because it leaves out a major perspective.

>  There's a whole field of psychotherapy
> > in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
> > various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
> > se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
> > seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
> > as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
> > along with standard psychotherapy.
> 
> So these are licensed mental health professionals who
> are using this model in their practice or spiritual
> people with psychotherapy training?

I haven't checked their credentials, Curtis. I got the
impression at least some of them were trained in
psychotherapy and licensed and have chosen to use this
approach in their practice.

> I wonder about the ethics if the first

OMG, that is hilarious.

> and the training basis for the second.
> 
> > The two systems are seen as complementary, in other words.
> > The chakra experiences are assumed to be very real but can
> > be signs of mental disorders if they're causing distress,
> > but also of spiritual progress if they're not.
> 
> I can understand that some people may believe this.  I am
> not sure they are speaking with the full authority of the
> people who license mental health professionals.

As is this.

  And how
> does a person know that they are dealing with an expert
> in the area of "chakras"?  There is no standard of
> knowledge to use as a reference.
> 
> So I don't see how this solves the issues I brought up.

I don't believe I suggested that it "solves" anything.
Please don't put words in my mouth.




  We are still left winging it with an area that seems to have 
profound consequences in mental health.
> 
> Do you have a person who from your search seems to represent the 
needed knowledge in both areas that you think would inspire 
confidence?  I don't doubt that a search will lead to plenty of 
people making such claims. How could we evaluate such claims of 
this specialized knowledge?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>

> The limiting factor in my case was my family. They'd
> dealt with and known various yogis and lamas in the
> Himalayas for many decades before I was born. None of
> them, not one trusted Mahesh. ALL refused any
> instruction in TM.
> 
> And, of course, it turned out they were right.

Interesting that you didn't trust your highly
experienced and knowledgeable family.

> My own investigation was pretty easy: I approached 
> representatives of the order he claimed to come from
> and simply asked them. Around the same time, back in
> the 80's I found out from a former Shankaracharya
> that Mahesh was a leading suspect in the poisoning
> of SBS. Shortly thereafter the "businessman" in the
> Sexy Sadie files, who is a close friend, told me the
> details of Judith's story immediately after they met.
> 
> It was clear there were numerous others teaching in
> the same lineage who were legit. SO I dropped any
> association with the TM movement right then and there.
> But I was and always have been very, very fortunate:
> all I had to do was ask, and it was as if the answers
> fell into my lap.

But not quite fortunate enough to think to ask until
after you'd spent (according to you) at least a 
couple of years and quite a bit of money in the
movement becoming a TM teacher and doing the TM-Sidhis.
Right, Vaj?

You say your family was the "limiting factor," but it
doesn't seem to have limited you enough to keep you
from going the whole nine yards with TM, eh?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
>
> This is an interesting article.  But there's a building
> site with sophisticated stonework in Peru that may be
> older than 20,000 years.  So, archeologists need to
> factor this fact into their academic theories.

If you know about it, John, I suspect they do too,
and have already factored it in. (Do you remember the
name of this place? Because while there are 20,000-
year-old sites in Peru, they're coastal hunter-
gatherer sites with no sophisticated stonework. I'd 
be interested to know what you're thinking of.)

The Buttermilk Creek site is said to be the oldest
in *North* America. Last I heard, Peru was in *South*
America.

But speaking of cave paintings rather than spear
points or stonework, there was a really fabulous
article in Slate recently, excerpted from Paris
Review, well worth a read (no photos, sadly):

America's Ancient Cave Art
Deep in the Cumberland Plateau, mysterious drawings,
thousands of years old, offer a glimpse of lost Native
American cultures and traditions

http://www.slate.com/id/2288619/


 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  

wrote:
> >
> > "Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's 
> > issue of the journal Science that excavations show 
> > hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site 
> > and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other 
> > tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early 
> > as 15,500 years ago..."
> > 
> > Read more:
> > 
> > 'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back 
> > Arrival of Humans in America'
> > New York Times, March 24, 2011
> > http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r

[FairfieldLife] The Immortals Society

[Yifu]

http://neosurrealismart.com/modern-art-prints/?artworks/the-immortals-society.html&fullsize

[FairfieldLife] Habitat for Humanity

[Yifu]

http://neosurrealismart.com/modern-art-prints/?artworks/habitat-for-humanity.html&fullsize

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2011, at 3:03 PM, turquoiseb wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>> 
>> HHDL on the ten signs of losing nonduality or rigpa, the natural 
>> state:
>> 
>> 8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your `realization';
> 
> Can you say the BATGAP forum? I think you can.

And the Wednesday Night Satsang forum.

Neoadvaita 'I'm-more-enlightened-than-you' groups are really common, and all 
filled with similar content, plus a lot of bickering, narcissism poised as 
profundity, ad homeni and chest-pounding.

No surprises hereplease keep moving...

> The problem with these lists is people take them too seriously or 
> misinterpret them.  Basically just keep on your program if it works for 
> you and you'll get there some time.  If your program isn't work for you 
> try a different one.  Basically you'll get to a point where it doesn't 
> matter anymore and then you are making progress.

Well, hopefully appreciate that these are mere translations. Better to hear 
their commentary and deeper import, as they're great friends on the path of 
nonduality and narcissus...

Re: [FairfieldLife] Sucker Punch

[Peter]

Any boobies?


--- On Fri, 4/1/11, turquoiseb  wrote:

> From: turquoiseb 
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Sucker Punch
> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 12:29 PM
> When Zack Snyder was pitching this
> movie to Hollywood 
> producers, he described it as "Alice in Wonderland with 
> machine guns." 
> 
> I'd describe it more as a kind of a Bardo experience, 
> including the use of the Beatles' "Inner Light" on the 
> soundtrack at one point. But it's less of a "Turn off 
> your mind, relax and float downstream" Bardo experience 
> than it is a "Turn off your mind, snort, shoot, smoke 
> and ingest a drug cocktail that would put Hunter Thompson 
> under the table, and float downstream" Bardo experience.
> 
> "Sucker Punch" is a mishmash of every video game, CGI 
> action movie, and Bad Girls In Prison movie ever created. 
> It's all flash and style and no content. ZERO content. 
> 
> The plot, if there were one, would sorta kinda revolve 
> around Baby Doll, committed to a mental institution by 
> her evil stepdad because he got written out of her dead 
> Mom's will. But that's just the first level of reality. 
> As soon as Baby Doll is checked in, she starts checkin' 
> the place out, and her fellow inmates like Sweet Pea, 
> Rocket, Blondie, and Amber. They're all babes, because 
> you see it's not really an insane asylum; it's a kind 
> of sleezy whorehouse/strip club run by the same guy who 
> in the mental asylum reality is the head orderly. In 
> the whorehouse reality the babes are supposed to dance 
> for the customers and then "entertain" them. Only thing 
> is, when Baby Doll dances, she enters a third alternate 
> reality (the video game fantasy one), and gets to fight 
> battles, kick ass and take names. You following all of 
> this so far?
> 
> Neither was I. :-) But it doesn't matter because this 
> movie was never *intended* to make any sense. In my 
> opinion it was designed as a super-flashy entertainment 
> for teenagers who have burned their brains out with the 
> drug cocktail I mentioned earlier. Such an audience is 
> not only not familiar with the word "plot," they're 
> incapable of following one. All they can do is stare 
> at the screen, toke up or snort up or shoot up one
> more time, and say "Wow!" It's number two at the box 
> office in America this week, and took in $19.1 million 
> in its first weekend. Welcome to Maharishi's Sat Yuga. :-)
> 
> All of this said, perversely, I kinda enjoyed parts of 
> it. I doubt that many others here will, but I had to 
> write it up anyway because I mentioned it earlier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>     fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
> 
> 
> 


  

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat Mar 26 00:00:00 2011
End Date (UTC): Sat Apr 02 00:00:00 2011
699 messages as of (UTC) Fri Apr 01 23:27:47 2011

51 whynotnow7 
50 authfriend 
50 Ravi Yogi 
49 Vaj 
45 seventhray1 
44 turquoiseb 
42 Buck 
32 Yifu 
28 Joe 
27 Sal Sunshine 
25 rwr 
24 tartbrain 
24 curtisdeltablues 
23 Rick Archer 
21 WillyTex 
21 Bhairitu 
15 wayback71 
10 nablusoss1008 
10 Alex Stanley 
 9 Peter 
 8 merudanda 
 8 "do.rflex" 
 7 emptybill 
 7 Robert 
 7 PaliGap 
 7 Mike Doughney 
 6 obbajeeba 
 6 cardemaister 
 5 Tom Pall 
 5 John 
 4 merlin 
 3 feste37 
 3 ditzyklanmail 
 2 jpgillam 
 2 Yifu Xero 
 2 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 2 Duveyoung 
 2 Dick Mays 
 1 s2ness 
 1 pranamoocher 
 1 metoostill 
 1 m 13 
 1 hermandan0 
 1 dharmacentral 
 1 danfriedman2002 
 1 babajii_99 
 1 azgrey 
 1 wle...@aol.com
 1 Peter L Sutphen 
 1 Mike Dixon 
 1 Bill Coop 

Posters: 51
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

> > >
> > > Dear Rick, this being Fairfield, could we add this statement from below 
> > > to the FFL guidelines:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > 
> > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has >to
> > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ...  
> > > 
> > > >Blessed
> > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Om Dear Rick, I certainly know you're very busy doing much more
> > important work than policing FFL, so I would
> > be glad to help you keep a handle on inharmonious
> > speech on FFL.  Like, I know we should just say "no" to
> > negative people and kick them out of the group.
> > It would be better for everyone.   
> > What could the inharmonious negative here possibly have to say if they can't
> > be sweet about it?
> > 
> > I'd be glad to help, just give me the passwords to FFL.
> > 
> > POE
> > Yours in purity, 
> > -Buck
> >
> 
> Dear Rick,
> 
> You know, it pisses me off here on FFL.  A few people not even from Fairfield 
> clog this place.
> If I were a moderator on this thread in particular, I'd delete some 
> memberships of people who have beeen mean and vitriolic of Turqb and then I'd 
> delete Turqb for causing it.  Jeesus fuc'ing christ folks.  I'd also drop the 
> minimum number of posting to FFL per week to 40 if not 30.  Posting to FFL is 
> a fucking privilege not a fucking right.  I'm an Iowan farmer and we talk 
> this way amongst ourselves this way.  People were much more effective and 
> poetic when the limit was lower. Like 40 or even 30 per week.  Rick, give me 
> the fucking password and I'll drop the fucking posting limit to 30 and let's 
> cut this stupid ad hominid pickering between these alt.meditation freaks who 
> have come over and piled on.  They bring most nothing to Fairfield.  I could 
> help.
> 
> You know, me and Bevan goe way back.  I have a lot of sympathy for the way he 
> thinks.  I'd like to bring that over to FFL.  I think it could improve the 
> purity of the place.   Just give me the password. Silas?  
> 
> -Buck in FF
>

You know, I don't even care if you are just or not a practitioner of TM or the 
TMSP.  It's about faith and belief in Maharishi.  I don't want to hear no 
negativity neither from you, you or you neither.

-Buck

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris Wednesday

[Yifu]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ii6cNw-WcQs/SfYvJvct2dI/An0/rWXvyFMnpIo/s1600-h/Fasteners__Nuts__Bolts__Rods__Screws__Pins__Studs___Washers.jpg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays  wrote:
> >
> > From: Dome Announcements 
> > Meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris Wednesday
> > 
> > Everyone is warmly invited to a meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris, Prime 
> > Minister of the Global Country of World Peace and President of 
> > Maharishi University of Management.
> > 
> > Wednesday, April 6th at 8:15 pm, Dalby Hall, Argiro Student Center
> > 
> > Dr. Morris will speak on good news from around the world and 
> > inspiring reports from his recent world tour. The presentation will 
> > include slides and the opportunity to ask questions.
> > 
> > Please bring your current program badge.
> >
> 
> Om, a few people are invited.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> >
> > Dear Rick, this being Fairfield, could we add this statement from below to 
> > the FFL guidelines:
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > 
> > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has >to
> > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ...  
> > 
> > >Blessed
> > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> Om Dear Rick, I certainly know you're very busy doing much more
> important work than policing FFL, so I would
> be glad to help you keep a handle on inharmonious
> speech on FFL.  Like, I know we should just say "no" to
> negative people and kick them out of the group.
> It would be better for everyone.   
> What could the inharmonious negative here possibly have to say if they can't
> be sweet about it?
> 
> I'd be glad to help, just give me the passwords to FFL.
> 
> POE
> Yours in purity, 
> -Buck
>

Dear Rick,

You know, it pisses me off here on FFL.  A few people not even from Fairfield 
clog this place.
If I were a moderator on this thread in particular, I'd delete some memberships 
of people who have beeen mean and vitriolic of Turqb and then I'd delete Turqb 
for causing it.  Jeesus fuc'ing christ folks.  I'd also drop the minimum number 
of posting to FFL per week to 40 if not 30.  Posting to FFL is a fucking 
privilege not a fucking right.  I'm an Iowan farmer and we talk this way 
amongst ourselves this way.  People were much more effective and poetic when 
the limit was lower. Like 40 or even 30 per week.  Rick, give me the fucking 
password and I'll drop the fucking positing limit to 30 and let's cut this 
stupid ad hominid pickering between these alt.meditation freaks who have come 
over and piled on.  They bring most nothing to Fairfield.  I could help.

You know, me and Bevan goe way back.  I have a lot of sympathy for the way he 
thinks.  I'd like to bring that over to FFL.  I think it could improve the 
purity of the place.   Just give me the password. Silas?  

-Buck in FF 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Yifu]

http://mychinaconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/wolf_in_sheeps_clothing1.jpg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > > 
> > > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has 
> > > > > to
> > > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful in 
> > > > > our
> > > > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, soft,
> > > > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > > > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and kindness 
> > > > > of
> > > > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... 
> > > > > Blessed
> > > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > > > 
> > > > If X then Y.
> > > > If not X then not Y.
> > > > 
> > > > If harmonious, then... 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Well yes, 
> > > 
> > > If inharmonious, then...
> > >
> > 
> > Bevan's estimation of fealty:
> > 
> > The inner TM movement's cultural test,
> > 
> > "Let us be together
> > Let us eat together
> > Let us be vital together
> > Let us be Radiating Truth
> > Let us Be radiating the light of life
> > Never shall we denounce anyone
> > Never entertain negativity."
> >
> 
> 
> And, we'll hear no criticism from you, you and you.
> Especially you on FFL and some other places.
> 
> Jai Guru Dev,
> 
> -Buck
> Conservative Meditator
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

> 
> 
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > > 
> > > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has to
> > > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful in our
> > > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, soft,
> > > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and kindness of
> > > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... Blessed
> > > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > > 
> > > If X then Y.
> > > If not X then not Y.
> > > 
> > > If harmonious, then... 
> > >
> > 
> > Well yes, 
> > 
> > If inharmonious, then...
> >
> 
> Bevan's estimation of fealty:
> 
> The inner TM movement's cultural test,
> 
> "Let us be together
> Let us eat together
> Let us be vital together
> Let us be Radiating Truth
> Let us Be radiating the light of life
> Never shall we denounce anyone
> Never entertain negativity."
>


And, we'll hear no criticism from you, you and you.
Especially you on FFL and some other places.

Jai Guru Dev,

-Buck
Conservative Meditator

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

> > >
> > > 
> > > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > > 
> > > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has to
> > > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful in our
> > > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, soft,
> > > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and kindness of
> > > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... Blessed
> > > are they who speak sweet words."
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> > 
> > If X then Y.
> > If not X then not Y.
> > 
> > If harmonious, then... 
> >
> 
> Well yes, 
> 
> If inharmonious, then...
>

Bevan's estimation of fealty:

The inner TM movement's cultural test,

"Let us be together
Let us eat together
Let us be vital together
Let us be Radiating Truth
Let us Be radiating the light of life
Never shall we denounce anyone
Never entertain negativity."

[FairfieldLife] Re: Meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris Wednesday

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays  wrote:
>
> From: Dome Announcements 
> Meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris Wednesday
> 
> Everyone is warmly invited to a meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris, Prime 
> Minister of the Global Country of World Peace and President of 
> Maharishi University of Management.
> 
> Wednesday, April 6th at 8:15 pm, Dalby Hall, Argiro Student Center
> 
> Dr. Morris will speak on good news from around the world and 
> inspiring reports from his recent world tour. The presentation will 
> include slides and the opportunity to ask questions.
> 
> Please bring your current program badge.
>

Om, a few people are invited.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > 
> > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has to
> > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ... This is the
> > technique of the art of speaking: that, although we are truthful in our
> > thinking and speaking, the words that come out must be pleasing, soft,
> > and of good quality. ... The habit of speaking pleasingly lies in
> > cultivating that nature, that politeness, that softness and kindness of
> > heart that will not at any time produce harshness of speech. ... Blessed
> > are they who speak sweet words."
> > 
> 
> 
> Well yes, the TM-Movement's sweet truth.
> 
> If X then Y.
> If not X then not Y.
> 
> If harmonious, then... 
>

Well yes, 

If inharmonious, then...

[FairfieldLife] Meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris Wednesday

[Dick Mays]

From: Dome Announcements 
Meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris Wednesday

Everyone is warmly invited to a meeting with Dr. Bevan Morris, Prime 
Minister of the Global Country of World Peace and President of 
Maharishi University of Management.


Wednesday, April 6th at 8:15 pm, Dalby Hall, Argiro Student Center

Dr. Morris will speak on good news from around the world and 
inspiring reports from his recent world tour. The presentation will 
include slides and the opportunity to ask questions.


Please bring your current program badge.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2011, at 1:31 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
> 
>> Basically the only people who are doing this do a lengthy  
>> psychological evaluation and profile, along with long questionnaire  
>> and interview of all the various developmental issues one dealt with  
>> in their lives. Then and only then do they engage in a two week  
>> retreat to evaluate what type of diversion (of kundalini) the person  
>> may have or where their spiritual path can best progress from.
> 
> I was hoping you would respond Vaj because I know you have given a lot of 
> thought to this issue.  I don't know if two weeks is the right amount of 
> time, having spent much longer on TM courses it seems a bit short. But what 
> do I know!

Understand they're looking for a known set of signs as to what has happened and 
what the student's experience is. Also, each of the two people I'm referring to 
possesses a degree of awakening where they're able to discern the students 
system at a subtle level. A full awakening of kundalini implies a level of 
awakening where you're able to enter and experience each petal, each channel 
wheel, at will. In other words, 'they've been there, did that' before they 
authorized to really even teach about it, let alone help someone.

> 
>> 
>> Of course the best thing to prevent to do to prevent this from  
>> happening in the first place is to avoid disreputable teachers like 
>> the plague.
> 
> This is the problem isn't it?  by what criteria could a person judge this?  
> It seems that every system has their own criteria.  For Maharishi if you dug 
> you experience of TM then you could go for more, dig that, here is more and 
> on and on.  Personal experience is so compelling it is hard for a person to 
> argue that even with these experiences I have made a mistake and need to seek 
> someone else.

The limiting factor in my case was my family. They'd dealt with and known 
various yogis and lamas in the Himalayas for many decades before I was born. 
None of them, not one trusted Mahesh. ALL refused any instruction in TM.

And, of course, it turned out they were right.

My own investigation was pretty easy: I approached representatives of the order 
he claimed to come from and simply asked them. Around the same time, back in 
the 80's I found out from a former Shankaracharya that Mahesh was a leading 
suspect in the poisoning of SBS. Shortly thereafter the "businessman" in the 
Sexy Sadie files, who is a close friend, told me the details of Judith's story 
immediately after they met.

It was clear there were numerous others teaching in the same lineage who were 
legit. SO I dropped any association with the TM movement right then and there. 
But I was and always have been very, very fortunate: all I had to do was ask, 
and it was as if the answers fell into my lap.


> 
> 
>  This type of scenario is largely the by-product of faux  
>> kundalini yoga and meditation teachers IME. From the POV of these  
>> traditions, being trapped in such an energetic state can mean  
>> transmigration through the "lower realms" over many, many lives. I  
>> hope they enjoyed their hopping on foam a hell of a lot.
> 
> Ouch!  I sure did my share of foam hopping in my day.  I'm not sure any human 
> could make this claim definitively (I understand you are quoting the 
> tradition here.)  It seems to imply a knowledge of a lot of stuff I'm not 
> sure people could demonstrate a knowledge of. (like everything that happens 
> after death or whether TM actually does activate the "faux kundlini". (phrase 
> of the week IMO!)

Well, I'm not necessarily referring to you or to sidhas in general, but those 
who were damaged by these practices. You may not be aware, but the tantric 
teachings on kundalini state that if your kundalini was awakened in a previous 
existence, you maintain that awakening across existences. IMO the people who 
seem to be effected negatively were all people whose initial awakening occurred 
as a result of TM or TM-sidhi practices. That's not to say that some people 
could not or do not have positive awakening experiences with TM. If the 
circumstances are just right, anything is possible -- but IMO, that kinda thing 
is rare.

> But I'm sure you get the issue that even such teachers that you consider 
> experts may not have the expertise necessary to deal with people with mental 
> disorders who come to their courses.

Some would, some would not. That is improving. It's relatively common to have a 
psychiatric question or two on course forms: "do you currently or have you ever 
had any of the following..."


> But with an interest in the idea of choosing a reputable teacher, how would a 
> person go about such a task.  Don't most seekers believe that they are sort 
> of lead to THEIR teacher?  I remember corresponding to Shri Chinmoy's 
> organization before I went with Maharishi about how to know if you have the 
> right guru.  They sent back some 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sucker Punch

[Bhairitu]

Not sure it is all nudity in that 20 minutes (from reading articles on 
the cuts).  The studios are doing so poorly that they are mostly 
insisting on PG-13 for these genres though it is usually a turn off for 
the target 18-24 year old audience.  They prefer no compromises to tell 
the story nor to they want mom with the kids sitting in front of them.

Another thing on the "ticket price" is that if that is all you're 
spending and not on the junk food in the lobby your theater may go out 
of business since the studios don't share much of the revenue on the 
ticket itself.  The matinees I used to see would have around 20 people 
but there was only one other person at "Battle: Los Angeles" and since 
he was sitting in the D-Box section and it wasn't activated I suspect an 
employee taking in his free viewing.

On 04/01/2011 12:20 PM, Duveyoung wrote:
> I cannot imagine that the extra 20 minutes with the nudity can help this film 
> at all.
>
> That said:  I will see this film again even though it majorly fails on so 
> many entertainment fronts such as: plot, dialog, character development, et 
> alia.
>
> Why?
>
> Because I loved the special effects -- plain and simple.  Doesn't matter to 
> me that the film is entirely derivative.  The first time she faces those 
> three giant warriors, the film was worth the ticket price to me.  I could 
> endlessly trash the film otherwise, but the sheer beauty of the graphics in 
> terms of artistic merits makes this film the psychic equivalent of an 
> experience of, say, going to a museum which is presenting an "art of SciFi"  
> retrospective.  And, hey, Maharishi said:  don't look for the absolute in the 
> relative.  I count the blessings, such as they are, in all experiences; I 
> feel saner doing that than when, say, I'm factually correct when I'm grousing 
> about trivia.  To appreciate or not to appreciate, that's the question.
>
> Edg
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>> On 04/01/2011 09:29 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
>>> When Zack Snyder was pitching this movie to Hollywood
>>> producers, he described it as "Alice in Wonderland with
>>> machine guns."
>>>
>>> I'd describe it more as a kind of a Bardo experience,
>>> including the use of the Beatles' "Inner Light" on the
>>> soundtrack at one point. But it's less of a "Turn off
>>> your mind, relax and float downstream" Bardo experience
>>> than it is a "Turn off your mind, snort, shoot, smoke
>>> and ingest a drug cocktail that would put Hunter Thompson
>>> under the table, and float downstream" Bardo experience.
>>>
>>> "Sucker Punch" is a mishmash of every video game, CGI
>>> action movie, and Bad Girls In Prison movie ever created.
>>> It's all flash and style and no content. ZERO content.
>>>
>>> The plot, if there were one, would sorta kinda revolve
>>> around Baby Doll, committed to a mental institution by
>>> her evil stepdad because he got written out of her dead
>>> Mom's will. But that's just the first level of reality.
>>> As soon as Baby Doll is checked in, she starts checkin'
>>> the place out, and her fellow inmates like Sweet Pea,
>>> Rocket, Blondie, and Amber. They're all babes, because
>>> you see it's not really an insane asylum; it's a kind
>>> of sleezy whorehouse/strip club run by the same guy who
>>> in the mental asylum reality is the head orderly. In
>>> the whorehouse reality the babes are supposed to dance
>>> for the customers and then "entertain" them. Only thing
>>> is, when Baby Doll dances, she enters a third alternate
>>> reality (the video game fantasy one), and gets to fight
>>> battles, kick ass and take names. You following all of
>>> this so far?
>>>
>>> Neither was I. :-) But it doesn't matter because this
>>> movie was never *intended* to make any sense. In my
>>> opinion it was designed as a super-flashy entertainment
>>> for teenagers who have burned their brains out with the
>>> drug cocktail I mentioned earlier. Such an audience is
>>> not only not familiar with the word "plot," they're
>>> incapable of following one. All they can do is stare
>>> at the screen, toke up or snort up or shoot up one
>>> more time, and say "Wow!" It's number two at the box
>>> office in America this week, and took in $19.1 million
>>> in its first weekend. Welcome to Maharishi's Sat Yuga. :-)
>>>
>>> All of this said, perversely, I kinda enjoyed parts of
>>> it. I doubt that many others here will, but I had to
>>> write it up anyway because I mentioned it earlier.
>> I'll wait for the unrated Bluray with the 20 minutes deleted to make it
>> PG-13 are put back in.  Good thing Snyder didn't put any trolls in it. :-D
>>
>
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sucker Punch

[Duveyoung]

I cannot imagine that the extra 20 minutes with the nudity can help this film 
at all.  

That said:  I will see this film again even though it majorly fails on so many 
entertainment fronts such as: plot, dialog, character development, et alia.  

Why?  

Because I loved the special effects -- plain and simple.  Doesn't matter to me 
that the film is entirely derivative.  The first time she faces those three 
giant warriors, the film was worth the ticket price to me.  I could endlessly 
trash the film otherwise, but the sheer beauty of the graphics in terms of 
artistic merits makes this film the psychic equivalent of an experience of, 
say, going to a museum which is presenting an "art of SciFi"  retrospective.  
And, hey, Maharishi said:  don't look for the absolute in the relative.  I 
count the blessings, such as they are, in all experiences; I feel saner doing 
that than when, say, I'm factually correct when I'm grousing about trivia.  To 
appreciate or not to appreciate, that's the question.

Edg

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
>
> On 04/01/2011 09:29 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> > When Zack Snyder was pitching this movie to Hollywood
> > producers, he described it as "Alice in Wonderland with
> > machine guns."
> >
> > I'd describe it more as a kind of a Bardo experience,
> > including the use of the Beatles' "Inner Light" on the
> > soundtrack at one point. But it's less of a "Turn off
> > your mind, relax and float downstream" Bardo experience
> > than it is a "Turn off your mind, snort, shoot, smoke
> > and ingest a drug cocktail that would put Hunter Thompson
> > under the table, and float downstream" Bardo experience.
> >
> > "Sucker Punch" is a mishmash of every video game, CGI
> > action movie, and Bad Girls In Prison movie ever created.
> > It's all flash and style and no content. ZERO content.
> >
> > The plot, if there were one, would sorta kinda revolve
> > around Baby Doll, committed to a mental institution by
> > her evil stepdad because he got written out of her dead
> > Mom's will. But that's just the first level of reality.
> > As soon as Baby Doll is checked in, she starts checkin'
> > the place out, and her fellow inmates like Sweet Pea,
> > Rocket, Blondie, and Amber. They're all babes, because
> > you see it's not really an insane asylum; it's a kind
> > of sleezy whorehouse/strip club run by the same guy who
> > in the mental asylum reality is the head orderly. In
> > the whorehouse reality the babes are supposed to dance
> > for the customers and then "entertain" them. Only thing
> > is, when Baby Doll dances, she enters a third alternate
> > reality (the video game fantasy one), and gets to fight
> > battles, kick ass and take names. You following all of
> > this so far?
> >
> > Neither was I. :-) But it doesn't matter because this
> > movie was never *intended* to make any sense. In my
> > opinion it was designed as a super-flashy entertainment
> > for teenagers who have burned their brains out with the
> > drug cocktail I mentioned earlier. Such an audience is
> > not only not familiar with the word "plot," they're
> > incapable of following one. All they can do is stare
> > at the screen, toke up or snort up or shoot up one
> > more time, and say "Wow!" It's number two at the box
> > office in America this week, and took in $19.1 million
> > in its first weekend. Welcome to Maharishi's Sat Yuga. :-)
> >
> > All of this said, perversely, I kinda enjoyed parts of
> > it. I doubt that many others here will, but I had to
> > write it up anyway because I mentioned it earlier.
> 
> I'll wait for the unrated Bluray with the 20 minutes deleted to make it 
> PG-13 are put back in.  Good thing Snyder didn't put any trolls in it. :-D
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> HHDL on the ten signs of losing nonduality or rigpa, the natural 
> state:
> 
> 8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your `realization';

Can you say the BATGAP forum? I think you can.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[Bhairitu]

On 04/01/2011 09:09 AM, PaliGap wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>> HHDL on the ten signs of losing nonduality or rigpa, the natural state:
>>
>> When experiences like these [of nonduality] arise, there are also
>> spiritual traps,
>> which are said to be "the greatest ways in which nonduality is
>> bound". There are countless variations of these spiritual
>> traps, but Longchen Rabjam summarizes them as a group of
>> ten.
>>
>> They are:
>>
>> 1. The trap of being bound by concepts;
>> 2. The trap of being bound in non-conceptual states;
>> 3. The trap of being caught up in effort;
>> 4. The trap of grasping at appearances as true;
>> 5. The trap of seeking elsewhere for ultimate truth;
>> 6. The trap of grasping at empty forms as having
>> characteristics:
>> 7. The trap of the view of emptiness that loses sight of the true
>> nature;
>> 8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your `realization';
>> 9. The trap of meditation on `voidness', as futile as throwing
>> a stone in the dark;
>> 10. The trap of enduring suffering because you are missing
>> the key points.
> 11. The trap of loving lists
>
> Number shakti is well known to marketeers:
>
> "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Online Entrepreneurs"
> "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Guitar Players"
> "Ten Work Habits of Highly Effective Employees"
>
> Numbers work us over, don't they. They lend
> a scientific-seeming gloss. They charm us in the
> way that something complex and messy and difficult
> just suddenly crystallizes - gasp! - into beautiful
> order and structure.
>
> Is there any *real content* there? Or is it just
> smoke and mirrors.

The problem with these lists is people take them too seriously or 
misinterpret them.  Basically just keep on your program if it works for 
you and you'll get there some time.  If your program isn't work for you 
try a different one.  Basically you'll get to a point where it doesn't 
matter anymore and then you are making progress.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[John]

This is an interesting article.  But there's a building site with sophisticated 
stonework in Peru that may be older than 20,000 years.  So, archeologists need 
to factor this fact into their academic theories.

JR

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex"  wrote:
>
> "Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's 
> issue of the journal Science that excavations show 
> hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site 
> and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other 
> tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early 
> as 15,500 years ago..."
> 
> Read more:
> 
> 'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back 
> Arrival of Humans in America'
> New York Times, March 24, 2011
> http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> 
> These points are interesting to me.  There are two places to start that end 
> in the same conclusion for me.
> 
> 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real, valuable and can be 
> distinguished from the possible mental disorders in a patient who has studied 
> these concepts and describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from 
> this belief system.
> 
> 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is a sign of valuable 
> "spiritual progress" and is a manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps 
> for some people a benign experience that we do not yet understand. (Not 
> accepting the often contradictory explanations found in scriptures.)
> 
> Here are the problems I see.  First who has the training in both mental 
> health and chakras to a level that there can be a definitive diagnosis of one 
> or the other paradigm?  The Catholic church sends all exorcism cases to a 
> psychiatrist first to rule out known mental disorders.  Is this how spiritual 
> groups operate?  If not they are not in a knowledge position to distinguish 
> the reported experiences from known mental conditions. As long as the 
> experiences are not causing distress to the person this type of experience is 
> usually just ignored by most mental health professionals anyway.
> 
> So we are left with a person "trained" in "chakra knowledge" to work with the 
> person who is experiencing these things.  Due to the nature of the subjective 
> detail and the downsides of bad advice (all within the belief system of the 
> chakra experts) this kind of interaction is going to take some significant 
> time.
> 
> So whether you believe these are valuable experiences or not, we have the 
> bottom line problem.  The closest correlate to the time consuming interaction 
> needed is the mental health field which is often paid for by insurance.  Who 
> is going to finance the needed interaction with the "experts" of "chakra 
> knowldege"?  I am assuming that there aren't a whole bunch of people who can 
> step up and serve in this capacity so their time is extremely valuable.  Not 
> to mention how we would actually sort out what makes someone qualified to 
> offer this advice.
> 
> In any case the idea that TM teachers could offer this expertise in checking 
> sessions is not realistic.  They are not trained in chakras or the ability to 
> distinguish this class of experiences from mental problems.  Having checked 
> the meditations of people who ended up with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, I 
> can say that the checking procedure is not only insufficient for this class 
> of person, it may be very dangerous and make the situation much worse.
> 
> So even if you are going to believe in this system of development, I can't 
> see a realistic structure of professionals dealing with these people.  From 
> my perspective I can only hope that TM or other practices are not plunging 
> people into experiences for which there is no support structure or knowledge 
> base to deal with them.
> 
> 
Stanislov Grof, MD wrote a book called Spiritual Emergenicy (published in the 
early 80"s I think) about how psychiatry treats spiritual growth as a form of 
psychosis and gives medication to suppress the symptoms.  He and others were 
trying to distinguish between the 2 and provide counseling and all sorts of 
help to people.  I believe they still have an organization to do just that to 
and further understanding of the whole kubndalini/spiritual growth process in 
the various forms it takes.
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> > >
> > > One of the Bobby Roth TM questioners last week that I thought was most
> > interesting was the young woman MUM student from New Mexico asking about
> > more guidance with chakra energy work and hoping for services at MUM
> > with this for people who would need help with that, besides meditating.
> > It obviously was out of Bobby's realm as he mostly let it slide by
> > without touching it.
> > 
> > 
> > Many of the world's great entrepreneurs begin by identifying an
> > unserved, or underserved need and then addressing it.  So maybe this is
> > your calling Dug.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Pre-Clovis Site Discovered

[WillyTex]

"Archaeologists and other scientists report in Friday's 
issue of the journal Science that excavations show 
hunter-gatherers were living at the Buttermilk Creek site 
and making projectile points, blades, choppers and other 
tools from local chert for a long time, possibly as early 
as 15,500 years ago..."

Read more:

'Spear Points Found in Texas Dial Back 
Arrival of Humans in America'
New York Times, March 24, 2011
http://tinyurl.com/4gdtw3r

[FairfieldLife] Transcendental Meditation in The New York Times

[merlin]

Celebrities, recent research fuel interest in Transcendental Meditation: 
The New York Times
by Bob Roth

www.TM.org/blog   31 March 2011


The Sunday New York Times carried a lengthy feature March 20 highlighting 
America's rising interest in the Transcendental Meditation program. The article 
noted that this popularity has been spurred, in part, by the outspoken support 
offered by meditating celebrities, such as award-winning filmmakers David 
Lynch, Clint Eastwood, and Martin Scorsese, as well as performing artists Jerry 
Seinfeld, Russell Brand, Katy Perry, Laura Dern, Ben Harper, Sheryl Crowe, and 
Moby

 
http://www.globalgoodnews.com/cultural-news-a.html?art=130161766834346688

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
> wrote:
> >
> > These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> > to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> > 
> > 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> > valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> > disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> > describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> > this belief system.
> > 
> > 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> > a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> > manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> > people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> > (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> > in scriptures.)
> 
> False dichotomy.

I wasn't presenting them as a dichotomy but as a place to start the discussion.

 There's a whole field of psychotherapy
> in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
> various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
> se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
> seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
> as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
> along with standard psychotherapy.

So these are licensed mental health professionals who are using this model in 
their practice or spiritual people with psychotherapy training? I wonder about 
the ethics if the first and the training basis for the second.


> 
> The two systems are seen as complementary, in other words.
> The chakra experiences are assumed to be very real but can
> be signs of mental disorders if they're causing distress,
> but also of spiritual progress if they're not.


I can understand that some people may believe this.  I am not sure they are 
speaking with the full authority of the people who license mental health 
professionals.  And how does a person know that they are dealing with an expert 
in the area of "chakras"?  There is no standard of knowledge to use as a 
reference.

So I don't see how this solves the issues I brought up.  We are still left 
winging it with an area that seems to have profound consequences in mental 
health.

Do you have a person who from your search seems to represent the needed 
knowledge in both areas that you think would inspire confidence?  I don't doubt 
that a search will lead to plenty of people making such claims. How could we 
evaluate such claims of this specialized knowledge?




> 
> You might want to do a search: +yoga +psychotherapy.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:

> Basically the only people who are doing this do a lengthy  
> psychological evaluation and profile, along with long questionnaire  
> and interview of all the various developmental issues one dealt with  
> in their lives. Then and only then do they engage in a two week  
> retreat to evaluate what type of diversion (of kundalini) the person  
> may have or where their spiritual path can best progress from.

I was hoping you would respond Vaj because I know you have given a lot of 
thought to this issue.  I don't know if two weeks is the right amount of time, 
having spent much longer on TM courses it seems a bit short. But what do I know!

> 
> Of course the best thing to prevent to do to prevent this from  
> happening in the first place is to avoid disreputable teachers like 
> the plague.

This is the problem isn't it?  by what criteria could a person judge this?  It 
seems that every system has their own criteria.  For Maharishi if you dug you 
experience of TM then you could go for more, dig that, here is more and on and 
on.  Personal experience is so compelling it is hard for a person to argue that 
even with these experiences I have made a mistake and need to seek someone else.


 This type of scenario is largely the by-product of faux  
> kundalini yoga and meditation teachers IME. From the POV of these  
> traditions, being trapped in such an energetic state can mean  
> transmigration through the "lower realms" over many, many lives. I  
> hope they enjoyed their hopping on foam a hell of a lot.

Ouch!  I sure did my share of foam hopping in my day.  I'm not sure any human 
could make this claim definitively (I understand you are quoting the tradition 
here.)  It seems to imply a knowledge of a lot of stuff I'm not sure people 
could demonstrate a knowledge of. (like everything that happens after death or 
whether TM actually does activate the "faux kundlini". (phrase of the week IMO!)

But I'm sure you get the issue that even such teachers that you consider 
experts may not have the expertise necessary to deal with people with mental 
disorders who come to their courses.


But with an interest in the idea of choosing a reputable teacher, how would a 
person go about such a task.  Don't most seekers believe that they are sort of 
lead to THEIR teacher?  I remember corresponding to Shri Chinmoy's organization 
before I went with Maharishi about how to know if you have the right guru.  
They sent back some kind of subjective test that in retrospect seems kind of 
influenced by my beliefs.  In any case I'm not sure people have the open choice 
to evaluate such a teacher who is "reputable".  Even if you believed that you 
found a super teacher, how would you know how to rank them since people seem 
perfectly happy with guys like Moon and others who even the most ardent 
believer in all things guru usually omit from a "reputable" list. 






>
> 
> On Apr 1, 2011, at 12:10 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> Here are the problems I see.  First who has the training in both  
> mental health and chakras to a level that there can be a definitive  
> diagnosis of one or the other paradigm?  The Catholic church sends  
> all exorcism cases to a psychiatrist first to rule out known mental  
> disorders.  Is this how spiritual groups operate?  If not they are  
> not in a knowledge position to distinguish the reported experiences  
> from known mental conditions. As long as the experiences are not  
> causing distress to the person this type of experience is usually  
> just ignored by most mental health professionals anyway.
> 
> So we are left with a person "trained" in "chakra knowledge" to work  
> with the person who is experiencing these things.  Due to the nature  
> of the subjective detail and the downsides of bad advice (all within  
> the belief system of the chakra experts) this kind of interaction is  
> going to take some significant time.
> 
> So whether you believe these are valuable experiences or not, we have  
> the bottom line problem.  The closest correlate to the time consuming  
> interaction needed is the mental health field which is often paid for  
> by insurance.  Who is going to finance the needed interaction with  
> the "experts" of "chakra knowldege"?  I am assuming that there aren't  
> a whole bunch of people who can step up and serve in this capacity so  
> their time is extremely valuable.  Not to mention how we would  
> actually sort out what makes someone qualified to offer this advice.
> 
> In any case the idea that TM teachers could offer this expertise in  
> checking sessions is not realistic.  They are not trained in chakras  
> or the ability to distinguish this class of experiences from mental  
> problems.  Having checked the meditations of people who ended up with  
> a diagnosis of schizophrenia, I can say that the checking procedure  
> is not only insufficient for this class of person, it may be very  
> dange

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"  
wrote:
>
> These points are interesting to me.  There are two places
> to start that end in the same conclusion for me.
> 
> 1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real,
> valuable and can be distinguished from the possible mental 
> disorders in a patient who has studied these concepts and
> describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from
> this belief system.
> 
> 2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is
> a sign of valuable "spiritual progress" and is a
> manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for some
> people a benign experience that we do not yet understand.
> (Not accepting the often contradictory explanations found
> in scriptures.)

False dichotomy. There's a whole field of psychotherapy
in which chakra experiences are used to help diagnose
various disorders (not necessarily mental illness per
se, but the kinds of emotional problems that most people
seek psychotherapy for), and working with chakras is used
as a treatment modality for the disorders, typically 
along with standard psychotherapy.

The two systems are seen as complementary, in other words.
The chakra experiences are assumed to be very real but can
be signs of mental disorders if they're causing distress,
but also of spiritual progress if they're not.

You might want to do a search: +yoga +psychotherapy.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Sucker Punch

[Bhairitu]

On 04/01/2011 09:29 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> When Zack Snyder was pitching this movie to Hollywood
> producers, he described it as "Alice in Wonderland with
> machine guns."
>
> I'd describe it more as a kind of a Bardo experience,
> including the use of the Beatles' "Inner Light" on the
> soundtrack at one point. But it's less of a "Turn off
> your mind, relax and float downstream" Bardo experience
> than it is a "Turn off your mind, snort, shoot, smoke
> and ingest a drug cocktail that would put Hunter Thompson
> under the table, and float downstream" Bardo experience.
>
> "Sucker Punch" is a mishmash of every video game, CGI
> action movie, and Bad Girls In Prison movie ever created.
> It's all flash and style and no content. ZERO content.
>
> The plot, if there were one, would sorta kinda revolve
> around Baby Doll, committed to a mental institution by
> her evil stepdad because he got written out of her dead
> Mom's will. But that's just the first level of reality.
> As soon as Baby Doll is checked in, she starts checkin'
> the place out, and her fellow inmates like Sweet Pea,
> Rocket, Blondie, and Amber. They're all babes, because
> you see it's not really an insane asylum; it's a kind
> of sleezy whorehouse/strip club run by the same guy who
> in the mental asylum reality is the head orderly. In
> the whorehouse reality the babes are supposed to dance
> for the customers and then "entertain" them. Only thing
> is, when Baby Doll dances, she enters a third alternate
> reality (the video game fantasy one), and gets to fight
> battles, kick ass and take names. You following all of
> this so far?
>
> Neither was I. :-) But it doesn't matter because this
> movie was never *intended* to make any sense. In my
> opinion it was designed as a super-flashy entertainment
> for teenagers who have burned their brains out with the
> drug cocktail I mentioned earlier. Such an audience is
> not only not familiar with the word "plot," they're
> incapable of following one. All they can do is stare
> at the screen, toke up or snort up or shoot up one
> more time, and say "Wow!" It's number two at the box
> office in America this week, and took in $19.1 million
> in its first weekend. Welcome to Maharishi's Sat Yuga. :-)
>
> All of this said, perversely, I kinda enjoyed parts of
> it. I doubt that many others here will, but I had to
> write it up anyway because I mentioned it earlier.

I'll wait for the unrated Bluray with the 20 minutes deleted to make it 
PG-13 are put back in.  Good thing Snyder didn't put any trolls in it. :-D

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2011, at 12:10 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
Here are the problems I see.  First who has the training in both  
mental health and chakras to a level that there can be a definitive  
diagnosis of one or the other paradigm?  The Catholic church sends  
all exorcism cases to a psychiatrist first to rule out known mental  
disorders.  Is this how spiritual groups operate?  If not they are  
not in a knowledge position to distinguish the reported experiences  
from known mental conditions. As long as the experiences are not  
causing distress to the person this type of experience is usually  
just ignored by most mental health professionals anyway.


So we are left with a person "trained" in "chakra knowledge" to work  
with the person who is experiencing these things.  Due to the nature  
of the subjective detail and the downsides of bad advice (all within  
the belief system of the chakra experts) this kind of interaction is  
going to take some significant time.


So whether you believe these are valuable experiences or not, we have  
the bottom line problem.  The closest correlate to the time consuming  
interaction needed is the mental health field which is often paid for  
by insurance.  Who is going to finance the needed interaction with  
the "experts" of "chakra knowldege"?  I am assuming that there aren't  
a whole bunch of people who can step up and serve in this capacity so  
their time is extremely valuable.  Not to mention how we would  
actually sort out what makes someone qualified to offer this advice.


In any case the idea that TM teachers could offer this expertise in  
checking sessions is not realistic.  They are not trained in chakras  
or the ability to distinguish this class of experiences from mental  
problems.  Having checked the meditations of people who ended up with  
a diagnosis of schizophrenia, I can say that the checking procedure  
is not only insufficient for this class of person, it may be very  
dangerous and make the situation much worse.


So even if you are going to believe in this system of development, I  
can't see a realistic structure of professionals dealing with these  
people.  From my perspective I can only hope that TM or other  
practices are not plunging people into experiences for which there is  
no support structure or knowledge base to deal with them.


Basically the only people who are doing this do a lengthy  
psychological evaluation and profile, along with long questionnaire  
and interview of all the various developmental issues one dealt with  
in their lives. Then and only then do they engage in a two week  
retreat to evaluate what type of diversion (of kundalini) the person  
may have or where their spiritual path can best progress from.


Of course the best thing to prevent to do to prevent this from  
happening in the first place is to avoid disreputable teachers like  
the plague. This type of scenario is largely the by-product of faux  
kundalini yoga and meditation teachers IME. From the POV of these  
traditions, being trapped in such an energetic state can mean  
transmigration through the "lower realms" over many, many lives. I  
hope they enjoyed their hopping on foam a hell of a lot.

[FairfieldLife] Sucker Punch

[turquoiseb]

When Zack Snyder was pitching this movie to Hollywood 
producers, he described it as "Alice in Wonderland with 
machine guns." 

I'd describe it more as a kind of a Bardo experience, 
including the use of the Beatles' "Inner Light" on the 
soundtrack at one point. But it's less of a "Turn off 
your mind, relax and float downstream" Bardo experience 
than it is a "Turn off your mind, snort, shoot, smoke 
and ingest a drug cocktail that would put Hunter Thompson 
under the table, and float downstream" Bardo experience.

"Sucker Punch" is a mishmash of every video game, CGI 
action movie, and Bad Girls In Prison movie ever created. 
It's all flash and style and no content. ZERO content. 

The plot, if there were one, would sorta kinda revolve 
around Baby Doll, committed to a mental institution by 
her evil stepdad because he got written out of her dead 
Mom's will. But that's just the first level of reality. 
As soon as Baby Doll is checked in, she starts checkin' 
the place out, and her fellow inmates like Sweet Pea, 
Rocket, Blondie, and Amber. They're all babes, because 
you see it's not really an insane asylum; it's a kind 
of sleezy whorehouse/strip club run by the same guy who 
in the mental asylum reality is the head orderly. In 
the whorehouse reality the babes are supposed to dance 
for the customers and then "entertain" them. Only thing 
is, when Baby Doll dances, she enters a third alternate 
reality (the video game fantasy one), and gets to fight 
battles, kick ass and take names. You following all of 
this so far?

Neither was I. :-) But it doesn't matter because this 
movie was never *intended* to make any sense. In my 
opinion it was designed as a super-flashy entertainment 
for teenagers who have burned their brains out with the 
drug cocktail I mentioned earlier. Such an audience is 
not only not familiar with the word "plot," they're 
incapable of following one. All they can do is stare 
at the screen, toke up or snort up or shoot up one
more time, and say "Wow!" It's number two at the box 
office in America this week, and took in $19.1 million 
in its first weekend. Welcome to Maharishi's Sat Yuga. :-)

All of this said, perversely, I kinda enjoyed parts of 
it. I doubt that many others here will, but I had to 
write it up anyway because I mentioned it earlier.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:

These points are interesting to me.  There are two places to start that end in 
the same conclusion for me.

1. You believe that "chakra energy" experiences are real, valuable and can be 
distinguished from the possible mental disorders in a patient who has studied 
these concepts and describes his or her symptoms using the vocabulary from this 
belief system.

2. You don't believe that this category of experiences is a sign of valuable 
"spiritual progress" and is a manifestation of a mental disorder or perhaps for 
some people a benign experience that we do not yet understand. (Not accepting 
the often contradictory explanations found in scriptures.)

Here are the problems I see.  First who has the training in both mental health 
and chakras to a level that there can be a definitive diagnosis of one or the 
other paradigm?  The Catholic church sends all exorcism cases to a psychiatrist 
first to rule out known mental disorders.  Is this how spiritual groups 
operate?  If not they are not in a knowledge position to distinguish the 
reported experiences from known mental conditions. As long as the experiences 
are not causing distress to the person this type of experience is usually just 
ignored by most mental health professionals anyway.

So we are left with a person "trained" in "chakra knowledge" to work with the 
person who is experiencing these things.  Due to the nature of the subjective 
detail and the downsides of bad advice (all within the belief system of the 
chakra experts) this kind of interaction is going to take some significant time.

So whether you believe these are valuable experiences or not, we have the 
bottom line problem.  The closest correlate to the time consuming interaction 
needed is the mental health field which is often paid for by insurance.  Who is 
going to finance the needed interaction with the "experts" of "chakra 
knowldege"?  I am assuming that there aren't a whole bunch of people who can 
step up and serve in this capacity so their time is extremely valuable.  Not to 
mention how we would actually sort out what makes someone qualified to offer 
this advice.

In any case the idea that TM teachers could offer this expertise in checking 
sessions is not realistic.  They are not trained in chakras or the ability to 
distinguish this class of experiences from mental problems.  Having checked the 
meditations of people who ended up with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, I can say 
that the checking procedure is not only insufficient for this class of person, 
it may be very dangerous and make the situation much worse.

So even if you are going to believe in this system of development, I can't see 
a realistic structure of professionals dealing with these people.  From my 
perspective I can only hope that TM or other practices are not plunging people 
into experiences for which there is no support structure or knowledge base to 
deal with them.






  






  



>
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
> >
> > One of the Bobby Roth TM questioners last week that I thought was most
> interesting was the young woman MUM student from New Mexico asking about
> more guidance with chakra energy work and hoping for services at MUM
> with this for people who would need help with that, besides meditating.
> It obviously was out of Bobby's realm as he mostly let it slide by
> without touching it.
> 
> 
> Many of the world's great entrepreneurs begin by identifying an
> unserved, or underserved need and then addressing it.  So maybe this is
> your calling Dug.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of losing nonduality

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> HHDL on the ten signs of losing nonduality or rigpa, the natural state:
> 
> When experiences like these [of nonduality] arise, there are also  
> spiritual traps,
> which are said to be "the greatest ways in which nonduality is
> bound". There are countless variations of these spiritual
> traps, but Longchen Rabjam summarizes them as a group of
> ten.
> 
> They are:
> 
> 1. The trap of being bound by concepts;
> 2. The trap of being bound in non-conceptual states;
> 3. The trap of being caught up in effort;
> 4. The trap of grasping at appearances as true;
> 5. The trap of seeking elsewhere for ultimate truth;
> 6. The trap of grasping at empty forms as having
> characteristics:
> 7. The trap of the view of emptiness that loses sight of the true  
> nature;
> 8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your `realization';
> 9. The trap of meditation on `voidness', as futile as throwing
> a stone in the dark;
> 10. The trap of enduring suffering because you are missing
> the key points.

11. The trap of loving lists

Number shakti is well known to marketeers:

"The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Online Entrepreneurs"
"The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Guitar Players"
"Ten Work Habits of Highly Effective Employees"

Numbers work us over, don't they. They lend
a scientific-seeming gloss. They charm us in the
way that something complex and messy and difficult
just suddenly crystallizes - gasp! - into beautiful
order and structure.

Is there any *real content* there? Or is it just
smoke and mirrors. 

[FairfieldLife] Growing inflation shrinking food packages

[Bhairitu]

Last night I walked by the beverage section of the local supermarket I 
noticed cute little pop cans.  My how they have shrunk!  Seems that in 
order to fool the public they are just packing food stuff and junk foods 
in smaller packages or even the same size package but more air.  Corn 
chips which used to sell for $2 a pound are now $2 for 12 ounces.  Even 
Starbucks has jumped into the act  with their mini-snacks which look 
like lollipops.  Now that they have to put the calorie count on their 
pastries we learn that indeed a small muffin can have 400+ calories and 
cost almost $2.  Most muffins that size should only have between 150-240 
calories.  Think is I can walk across the parking lot to the bagel cafe 
and get a muffin twice the size but probably the same calories for 
$1.50.  Oh and espresso there is on $1.50 for a two shot drink (almost 
as much as SB's shrunken 3 shots).

So hilarious to see who big business rapes the public to make money.  
Ain't capitalism grand!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Life: The Video

[merudanda]

behold --you're so right [:D] lol
Hitler finds out about the Downfall Parodies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSYk8ofhYFY&p=A20DAC818C423798
http://tinyurl.com/3avf9z6

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jpgillam"  wrote:
>
> Watch out: This babbling baby video will become as ubiquitous as the
Hitler tantrum scene in "The Downfall" as a visual track for funny
dialogs.
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:53 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31/twin-baby-boys-
> > > conversation-translated_n_843043.html
> >
> >
> > I have two twin cousins who actually developed their own language
> > that only they could understand, although they later tried to teach
> > it to us. Up through their teens, if they wanted to share something
> > private while in the presence of others, they'd speak in this
bizarre
> > language back and forth. It was an interesting way of sharing their
> > private world and the telepathic link they seemed to share. Because
> > of the unique bond they shared, their parents allowed them to have a
> > shared room, rather than separate rooms growing up.
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TIME's Joe Klein on the GOP's pathetic 2012 presidential line-up

[Mike Dixon]

Oh lord, Trigg Palin could beat Obama now! LOL





From: do.rflex 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 3:32:13 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TIME's Joe Klein on the GOP's pathetic 2012 
presidential line-up

  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  wrote:
>
> On Mar 30, 2011, at 3:54 PM, do.rflex wrote:
> 
> > An Unimpressive Field
> > 
> > Joe Klein: "This is my 10th presidential campaign, Lord help me. I have 
> > never 
>before seen such a bunch of vile, desperate-to-please, shameless, embarrassing 
>losers coagulated under a single party's banner. 
>
> > 
> > "They are the most compelling argument I've seen against American 
>exceptionalism... 
>
> > 
> > "There are those who say, cynically, if this is the dim-witted freak show 
> > the 
>Republicans want to present in 2012, so be it. I disagree. One of them could 
>get 
>elected. You never know."
> > 
> > http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/03/29/american-embarrassment/
> 
> You know when they're holding Jeb Bush up as an
> example of integrity things have gotta be bad.
> 
> Sal
>

I don't see any Republican whom I believe can beat Obama.





  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Vaj wrote:


spiritual traps



Literally: "dharma cages".

[FairfieldLife] Signs of losing nonduality

[Vaj]

HHDL on the ten signs of losing nonduality or rigpa, the natural state:

When experiences like these [of nonduality] arise, there are also  
spiritual traps,
which are said to be “the greatest ways in which nonduality is
bound". There are countless variations of these spiritual
traps, but Longchen Rabjam summarizes them as a group of
ten.

They are:

1. The trap of being bound by concepts;
2. The trap of being bound in non-conceptual states;
3. The trap of being caught up in effort;
4. The trap of grasping at appearances as true;
5. The trap of seeking elsewhere for ultimate truth;
6. The trap of grasping at empty forms as having
characteristics:
7. The trap of the view of emptiness that loses sight of the true  
nature;
8. The trap of aimlessly chattering about your ‘realization’;
9. The trap of meditation on ‘voidness', as futile as throwing
a stone in the dark;
10. The trap of enduring suffering because you are missing
the key points.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[PaliGap]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > I would try askjeeeves.com.  It is probably a very common occurance, and
> > jeeves can likely offer some sound advice about it.  "Dear Jeeves, my
> > kundalini is on fire and I am writhing around like a snake here at 3:00
> > am.  Can you please give some advice on what to do".
> 
> Jeeves, not having been introduced to Yoga, would perhaps advice the poor 
> fellow to eat more fish :-)
> 

No, Jeeves would confront Bertie's unstressing with his magic
potion: raw egg, Worcester sauce, and red pepper. As Jeeves puts
it: "It is the Worcester sauce that gives it its colour. The raw
egg makes it nutritious. The red pepper gives it its bite.
Gentlemen have told me they have found it extremely invigorating
after a kundalini rush down at the Drones Club in Mayfair"

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fairfield Life: The Video

[jpgillam]

Watch out: This babbling baby video will become as ubiquitous as the Hitler 
tantrum scene in "The Downfall" as a visual track for funny dialogs. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:53 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
> 
> > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31/twin-baby-boys- 
> > conversation-translated_n_843043.html
> 
> 
> I have two twin cousins who actually developed their own language  
> that only they could understand, although they later tried to teach  
> it to us. Up through their teens, if they wanted to share something  
> private while in the presence of others, they'd speak in this bizarre  
> language back and forth. It was an interesting way of sharing their  
> private world and the telepathic link they seemed to share. Because  
> of the unique bond they shared, their parents allowed them to have a  
> shared room, rather than separate rooms growing up.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting quotes from Maharishi

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> 
> MMY on free will:
> "Well, you see, it is like this. Absolutely everything 
> is fixed, and absolutely everything can be changed at 
> any time." (Squaw Valley, 1968 - sent in by Jim Spates)
> 
> MMY on opposition:
> "Do not oppose because in opposing the tenderness of 
> the feeling level is crushed. All action should be to 
> nourish the fine feeling developed in the practice of 
> the TM sidhi program. That is why we say Speak the 
> Truth but see that you are speaking delicately. Do not 
> speak non-truth and do not speak in a non sweet way, 
> so that the feeling is nourished. The whole effect of 
> activity is to enrich the feeling of the other. Be as 
> delicate as possible. If communication accomplishes 
> something on the gross but damages something on the 
> level of feeling then it is a spiritual loss! The 
> feeling is more important for life. Nourishment of 
> the feeling level is the basis for growth of the 
> spiritual holistic value. Delicate behaviour on the 
> surface should be such as to nourish, uphold and 
> enhance the Transcendental value where feelings merge 
> into a common source. Do not oppose. Opposition is 
> dangerous to immortality."
> 
> MMY on punishment:
> "We are born only to bless, not to punish. This you 
> should never forget. We should always see good things 
> in others - very important. We are not in a position 
> to criticize anyone. The existence of enemies means 
> for us that our friendliness has not been sufficient 
> enough."


Thanks for posting this Turq ! :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: End the US-led Armed Intervention in Libya

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John"  wrote:
>
> Nabs,
> 
> This is a good idea.  But Obama has sold out to the powers that be.  Just 
> like the way Bush and others did.
> 
> JR

The perversion of "democracy" in my honest opinion.

"Damn democracy" !


> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008  wrote:
> >
> > « Wilkes-Barre, PA 
> > The Symphony Way  
> > »   FYI: On LibyaBy Raj   on
> > 03/30/2011 in Uncategorized
> > 
> > The staff at Focus on the Global South   put
> > together this announcement last week. Given today's news from Syria,
> > and President Assad's finger-pointing at outside intervention,
> > Focus' position is prescient and pressing. Original here
> >  .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > End the US-led Armed Intervention in Libya
> > 
> > (Statement of Focus on the Global South, March 22, 2011)
> > 
> > Focus on the Global South supports the democratic opposition in Libya
> > that seeks to end the 43-year-old dictatorship of Muammar Gaddafi. Focus
> > shares the Libyan people's desire to be free of a corrupt and
> > repressive ruler who does not hesitate to employ massive force against
> > his own people to hang on to power.
> > 
> > Focus cannot, however, support the massive armed intervention launched
> > by the United States, France, and Britain on Sunday, March 20.
> > 
> > A "No Fly Zone" to protect civilians is one thing. An armed
> > assault aimed at regime change is another thing altogether. The latter
> > is the intent of the US/UK/French-led intervention, which, although
> > displaying the figleaf of a United Nations Security Council resolution,
> > goes far beyond the defensive aims of a no-fly zone to cross over into
> > aggression against Libya.
> > 
> > Firing on ground troops and preemptively and indiscriminately destroying
> > anti-aircraft installations will bring about precisely that loss of life
> > that the intervention ostensibly seeks to prevent. Civilians are being
> > killed by the western assault when civilians were supposedly the very
> > people the action was supposed to protect.
> > 
> > The fight for democracy waged by the Libyan people must be supported,
> > but not by western military action that is an instrument of regime
> > change. This action may ostensibly have humanitarian objectives, but its
> > main objective is to reassert western hegemony in a region that is
> > caught up in the winds of democratic change.
> > 
> > Owing to its support for authoritarian regimes in the Middle East, the
> > US has lost much of its credibility among the Arab peoples. Indeed, the
> > US may be said to be one of the targets of the Arab democratic
> > revolution. In this context, the intervention in Libya for regime change
> > is Washington's belated attempt to appear as a pro-democratic force,
> > shore up its tattered legitimacy, and remind the Arab nations of its
> > strategic hegemony in the region. Yet the world will not miss the
> > hypocrisy of a hegemon which shouts that it is supporting democracy in
> > Libya while it stands on the side as a reactionary regime it has armed
> > and supported, Saudi Arabia, has invaded and is crushing democratic
> > forces in Bahrain.
> > 
> > The West's "armed intervention for democracy " will not
> > advance the cause of democracy. Indeed, it will discredit it by
> > associating democracy with a western show of force. The intervention in
> > Libya risks stoking forces as powerful as the democratic movement: Arab
> > nationalism and Islamic solidarity. It will end up creating conflicts
> > among movements which should be complementary, and the only victor will
> > be western hegemony.
> > 
> > We in Focus on the Global South call for an immediate end to the
> > US/UK/French-led war on Libya.
> > 
> > We call on global civil society and on governments throughout the world
> > to support the Libyan people's struggle for democracy against
> > Gaddafi.
> > 
> > We ask especially the democratic movements in Tunisia and Egypt to come
> > to the aid of the Libyan people.
> > 
> > We call for an end to all efforts to maintain or reassert US hegemony in
> > the Middle East.
> > http://rajpatel.org 
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1"  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> I would try askjeeeves.com.  It is probably a very common occurance, and
> jeeves can likely offer some sound advice about it.  "Dear Jeeves, my
> kundalini is on fire and I am writhing around like a snake here at 3:00
> am.  Can you please give some advice on what to do".


Jeeves, not having been introduced to Yoga, would perhaps advice the poor 
fellow to eat more fish :-)


> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I hope she's doing okay now. If you're having intense kundalini the
> last thing you want to do are asanas! She needed to go out and have an
> emergency hamburger or two!
> >
> >
> > If your kundalini is on fire the last thing you WANT to do is asanas,
> but that's excactly what you should do. Hamburgers, not so much.
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Buck"  wrote:
>
> Dear Rick, this being Fairfield, could we add this statement from below to 
> the FFL guidelines:
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> > 
> > "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has >to
> > be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> > life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ...  
> 
> >Blessed
> > are they who speak sweet words."
> >
>


Om Dear Rick, I certainly know you're very busy doing much more
important work than policing FFL, so I would
be glad to help you keep a handle on inharmonious
speech on FFL.  Like, I know we should just say "no" to
negative people and kick them out of the group.
It would be better for everyone.   
What could the inharmonious negative here possibly have to say if they can't
be sweet about it?

I'd be glad to help, just give me the passwords to FFL.

POE
Yours in purity, 
-Buck

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[Buck]

Dear Rick, this being Fairfield, could we add this statement from below to the 
FFL guidelines:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
>
> 
> From Maharishi's The Science of Being and Art of Living:
> 
> "For speech to be harmonious, appropriate and suitable, thinking has >to
> be clear, sharp, and at the least, harmless -- and at the best,
> life-supporting to the whole of the environment. ...  

>Blessed
> are they who speak sweet words."
> 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Fairfield Life: The Video

[Vaj]

On Apr 1, 2011, at 6:53 AM, turquoiseb wrote:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31/twin-baby-boys- 
conversation-translated_n_843043.html



I have two twin cousins who actually developed their own language  
that only they could understand, although they later tried to teach  
it to us. Up through their teens, if they wanted to share something  
private while in the presence of others, they'd speak in this bizarre  
language back and forth. It was an interesting way of sharing their  
private world and the telepathic link they seemed to share. Because  
of the unique bond they shared, their parents allowed them to have a  
shared room, rather than separate rooms growing up.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Subtle energy awareness and Deep Transcendence

[Vaj]

On Mar 31, 2011, at 7:06 PM, emptybill wrote:

We've been over this before.  In Buddhism, samaadhi means dharana  
while dhyana-samaapatti is absorption in meditation.


"Transcendence" is a western concept. In Sanskrit, the term  
(taraatitaa) is not officially used also (in Buddhism). Sometimes  
"transcendence" is used by western educated people as a synonym for  
Nirvana.


It would be different translations of two different words which are  
descriptive of the same experience of settling down in the thinking  
process.


The Sanskrit word for "transcendental" is "bhavatita".

There are hundreds of types of samadhi but according to Tsongkhapa  
they all fall under the dual classification of quiesence and insight.  
Furthermore you can divide quiesence into discursive meditation and  
stabilizing meditation. TM style meditation would fall under the  
classification of quiesence, of which there are hundreds of kinds.


The two are complementary, as relying on quiesence or transcendence  
alone, one tends to get addicted to the thought-free states and to  
bliss. That's why in the Dzogchen four yogas, transcendence is  
dropped after it's result is stable, after a couple of weeks or so.

[FairfieldLife] Fairfield Life: The Video

[turquoiseb]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31/twin-baby-boys-conversation-translated_n_843043.html

:-)

[FairfieldLife] Interesting quotes from Maharishi

[turquoiseb]

>From a site that popped up in an unrelated Google search, 
passed along purely for their entertainment value, and I
do not attempt to relate them either to his own actions
or to the actions of those who claim to be his followers.

MMY on free will:
"Well, you see, it is like this. Absolutely everything 
is fixed, and absolutely everything can be changed at 
any time." (Squaw Valley, 1968 - sent in by Jim Spates)

MMY on opposition:
"Do not oppose because in opposing the tenderness of 
the feeling level is crushed. All action should be to 
nourish the fine feeling developed in the practice of 
the TM sidhi program. That is why we say Speak the 
Truth but see that you are speaking delicately. Do not 
speak non-truth and do not speak in a non sweet way, 
so that the feeling is nourished. The whole effect of 
activity is to enrich the feeling of the other. Be as 
delicate as possible. If communication accomplishes 
something on the gross but damages something on the 
level of feeling then it is a spiritual loss! The 
feeling is more important for life. Nourishment of 
the feeling level is the basis for growth of the 
spiritual holistic value. Delicate behaviour on the 
surface should be such as to nourish, uphold and 
enhance the Transcendental value where feelings merge 
into a common source. Do not oppose. Opposition is 
dangerous to immortality."

MMY on punishment:
"We are born only to bless, not to punish. This you 
should never forget. We should always see good things 
in others - very important. We are not in a position 
to criticize anyone. The existence of enemies means 
for us that our friendliness has not been sufficient 
enough."

[FairfieldLife] Re: Cave Of Lascaux Cave of Forgotten Dreams

[turquoiseb]

Great find, merudanda. The existing caves at Lascaux are 
among the most amazing things I've ever seen, so discovering 
new ones is quite a coup. Because of their fragility, no
tourists will ever get to see the originals, so I commend 
the French government for giving Herzog access to them with 
the latest 3D technology. Your post reminded me of one I 
wrote to Marek some time ago, regarding a BBC documentary
that included a section on the caves at Lascaux and other
prehistoric art:

> Great stuff, Marek. I think you'd *really* like
> a BBC series I saw on my satellite before I left
> France, How Art Made The World:
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/howartmadetheworld/
> 
> The second (I think) episode deals with the cave
> paintings, and it's just utterly *fascinating*.
> It goes through the various theories about how
> they came about, and debunks most of them, such
> as, "These were the animals they saw around them."
> Often these were *not* the animals they saw
> around them; these animals weren't even native
> to the region.
> 
> So where did these images come from? What did
> they mean? The theory presented (and with enough
> force that it sounds "right" to me) was arrived at
> by looking at cave paintings *around the world*,
> and noticing that the ones in Australia or Iran
> looked the same, used the same artistic conventions,
> and often featured the same animals as the ones in
> France and in Spain. The common denominator was that
> the artistic conventions used are *also* seen in
> art that depicts the trance or psychedelic exper-
> ience.
> 
> So the documentary presents the possibility that
> these paintings were the first recorded attempts
> to record an inner vision (by shamans), and present
> it to the tribe at large, who might not have had
> such visions.
> 
> I think you'd love it. The rest of the series is
> great, too.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda  wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDkDB0aM-Lo
> 
> Positively received at its Toronto Festival Premiere, CAVE  OF FORGOTTEN
> DREAMS shows the dramatic results of Herzog's exclusive  access to
> the recently discovered Chauvet caves in the South of France,  and their
> truly extraordinary cave paintings, dating back 32,000 years. 
> Herzog's use of 3D really brings these beautiful works of art and
> the  breath-taking cathedral like cave with its towering stalagmites to
> life.  Herzog uses his unique access to this treasure trove of
> Palaeolithic  masterpieces to muse on the immensity and fragility of
> man's progress.
> 
> http://www.filmshaft.com/two-clips-from-werner-herzogs-cave-of-forgotten\
> -dreams/
> http://tinyurl.com/3h6s5u3
> The cave is littered with the skeletons and fragments of bears and other
> animals but curiously no human remains. Herzog being Herzog he 
> interviews a host of eccentric scientists and at the very end finds 
> albino alligators living near a nuclear power plant. Only he would find 
> such things! They'll also be a collective laugh in the cinema when 
> Herzog muses about Baywatch.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: The sweet speech of the enlightened

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj  wrote:
>
> 
> On Mar 31, 2011, at 7:34 AM, Peter wrote:
> 
> >
> > Maharishi was a Blazing Ball of Brahman. Jim's and Ravi's balls are  
> > smaller!
> 
> "kai ou qauma autoV gar o satanaV metaschmatizetai eiV aggelon fwtoV"
> 
> "And this is no marvel for Satan himself is transformed into an angel  
> of light."
> 
> - Paul of Tarsus, 2 Corinthians 11:14
> 
> "I have known some very enlightened children who, upon meeting  
> [Maharishi] Mahesh [Yogi], would comment that what they saw was an  
> evil demon in disguise. At the time I thought they were unstressing.  
> But now I see what was really happening. Mahesh puts on this guise of  
> being a warm and loving spiritual master when in reality he is after  
> money, power and control. These children would actually see his real  
> form, a form most of us are not able to see."
> 
> -Earl Kaplan
> 
> "Sometime Satan comes as a man of peace".
> 
> -Bob Dylan
>

So, MMY "april-fooled" SBS?  ;-)

[FairfieldLife] File - FFL Acronyms

[FairfieldLife]

BC - Brahman Consciousness
BN - Bliss Ninny or Bliss Nazi
CC - Cosmic Consciousness
GC - God Consciousness
MMY - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
OTP - Off the Program - a phrase used in the TM movement meaning to do 
something (such as see another spiritual teacher) considered in violation of 
Maharishi's program.
POV - Point of View
SBS - Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, Maharishi's master
SCI – Science of Creative Intelligence
SOC - State of Consciousness
SSRS - Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (Pundit-ji)
SV - Stpathya Ved (Vedic Architecture)
TB - True Believer (in TM doctrines)
TNB - True Non-Believer
TMO - The Transcendental Meditation organization
TTC – TM Teacher Training Course
UC - Unity Consciousness
WYMS - "World Youth Meditation Society" later changed to "World Youth Movement 
for the Science of Creative Intelligence" was founded by Peter Hübner in 
Germany, as a national TM outlet competing with SIMS, Students International 
Meditation Society
YMMV = Your Mileage may vary




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[FairfieldLife] Cave Of Lascaux Cave of Forgotten Dreams

[merudanda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDkDB0aM-Lo

Positively received at its Toronto Festival Premiere, CAVE  OF FORGOTTEN
DREAMS shows the dramatic results of Herzog's exclusive  access to
the recently discovered Chauvet caves in the South of France,  and their
truly extraordinary cave paintings, dating back 32,000 years. 
Herzog's use of 3D really brings these beautiful works of art and
the  breath-taking cathedral like cave with its towering stalagmites to
life.  Herzog uses his unique access to this treasure trove of
Palaeolithic  masterpieces to muse on the immensity and fragility of
man's progress.

http://www.filmshaft.com/two-clips-from-werner-herzogs-cave-of-forgotten\
-dreams/
http://tinyurl.com/3h6s5u3
The cave is littered with the skeletons and fragments of bears and other
animals but curiously no human remains. Herzog being Herzog he 
interviews a host of eccentric scientists and at the very end finds 
albino alligators living near a nuclear power plant. Only he would find 
such things! They'll also be a collective laugh in the cinema when 
Herzog muses about Baywatch.

[FairfieldLife] Cave Of Lascaux

[merudanda]

[FairfieldLife] The Nature of Reality:woo woo vs sceptic?

[merudanda]

Chopras ,"the poet–prophet of alternative medicine."
(Time)'War of world views' book promotion at an interdisciplinary panel
"The Nature of Reality" at the Folino Theater on March 31, 2011 at 6
o'clock in the evening?
Empire strikes back, again and again..woo woo vs sceptic ad nauseam?
Chopra"I'm saying, basically, it is impossible to conceive of the
universe  outside of consciousness, because there's no way of getting
outside of  consciousness."
Shermer concerned about the potential effect on public  understanding of
science, and on the fostering of unproven medical  claims:"He's
stringing together a bunch of scientific-sounding words, but is 
obscuring the meaning of these words, or the concepts.What Deepak does
is, he uses words like 'quantum  consciousness' as if that means
anything. And it doesn't.Deepak is having no effect on science,
scientists don't read him and think, 'Oh, I better do some research
here."
I am sure Chopra will say fuzzy things that are based on nothing more
than the claim of wisdom  and of course not to forget  the cutting-edge
concepts in physics which are  "non-locality,""the act of observation"
application of mental and biological"scale-invariance" etc
UHhhh  the powerful act of observation:FFL I am watching you!!
  and you  may watch an earlier dicussion with Chopra as a moderator and
as a self proclaimed no-specialist at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEQeRBZcScY
(here would be IMHO e.g. a discussion of the Platonist perspective (in
brief, that spelling objects and relationships exist independently of
human cognition and discovery) or the formalist perspective
(simplified,that spelling relationships are entirely the product of
symbolic manipulations in axiom systems created by humans) a quite
interesting parallel argument).Anyway
Looking forward to

The Nature of RealityAn Interdisciplinary Panel Discussion
http://www.chapman.edu/NatureOfReality/


The interdisciplinary panel "The Nature of Reality" will take place at
the Folino Theater on March 31, 2011 at 6 o'clock in the evening.
The event is organized by the Schmid College of Science in partnership
with the Dodge College of Film & Media Arts and the Wilkinson College of
Humanities and Social Sciences.  The panel discussion will be moderated
by Chapman Chancellor, Dr. Daniele Struppa.

  The panel discussion will start by asking two questions, "Is there an
Ultimate Reality?" and if yes, "Can it be accounted for by science such
as mathematics, biology and physics?" The panelists will address the
questions, then they will be given a chance to respond to each other and
interact, followed by opening up the floor to Q&A from the audience.
Speaker Bios 
http://www.chapman.edu/natureOfReality/speakers.asp
Have some question about e.g.yagya? [:D]
Questions for the panelists?
natureofreal...@chapman.edu 
BTW Chopra  and Mlodinow, who also will attend Thursday's  conference,
are working on a new book together ,called "War of the World Views", 
"that will set forth their  differing opinions on physics and
metaphysics."
http://www.randomhouse.com/book/209408/war-of-the-worldviews-by-deepak-c\
hopra-and-leonard-mlodinow/9780307886880/
http://tinyurl.com/3gqk85e
Empire strikes back, again and again..woo woo vs sceptic ad nauseam?
Hope not [;)]