Re: [Finale] lyrics underline
And if you do want to use the underscore instead of the capital I in Engraver, just turn off Smart Word Extensions in Finale 2004. It's at Options -> Document Options -> Lyrics -> Word Extensions (button at the bottom of the Lyrics box) -> Use Smart Word Extensions. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius to Finale
Hi Richard, As Noel and David have mentioned, you can use MusicXML format to go between Sibelius and Finale. As with MIDI files, you write a MusicXML file from Sibelius, then read the MusicXML into Finale. But you'll get a lot more of the notation details with MusicXML than with MIDI, even with the restrictions imposed by the limits of the Sibelius plug-in development tools. Our Dolet for Sibelius plug-in runs on Sibelius 2.1 and 3.1 on both Windows and Mac. The Finale situation is different on Windows and Mac. On Windows, Dolet Light for Finale has been included since Finale 2003. However, the full version does a better job with Sibelius tablature than the light version. You can also use the full version with any Finale for Windows from 2000 on. On Macintosh OS X, V2 of Dolet for Finale is available for Finale 2004 and 2005. If you're on OS 9, there's no plug-in available, but we can do the translation for you with our file translations services. All the plug-ins and file translation services are available at our site: http://store.recordare.com/software.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] The BIG Switch: FinMAC to SIBELIUS 3.1 OS X?
Thanks for all the interest and comments about MusicXML. I wanted to reply to some of David and William's points in particular: > Yes, [MusicXML is] vastly superior to what would be required with a > mere MIDI import, but it still requires a lot of work to get the > result into the exact layout as you had in Finale. The reason is > quite simple: an ETF includes information that MusicXML is just > not designed to capture and transmit. This is a valid criticism for MusicXML 1.0, but far less so for MusicXML 1.1. The formatting that will be available from Finale 2004 onwards will be much higher fidelity than what you have seen so far. We are approaching Robert's criteria for having arrived. And we have done this while maintaining compatibility, so that every valid MusicXML 1.0 file is a valid MusicXML 1.1 file. If people want to participate in the beta test of Dolet for Finale 3.0, please send me e-mail off-list or fill out the contact form at http://www.recordare.com/contact.html. You need a valid Dolet for Finale 1.0 or 2.0 license to use the 3.0 beta. > [MusicXML] cannot be so easily killed by politics, as NIFF was. I would suspect that NIFF's technical inadequacies were probably just as important as the politics. MusicXML matches the overall structure of Finale and Sibelius very well; NIFF does not. In NIFF's defense, we had the unfair advantage of coming along several years later. By that time the ETF format was published, and we were also able to leverage the software industry's huge investment in XML technology. > MusicXML ... is much more suitable than ETF. This is true for all the reasons discussed. But the big advantage of having the ETF format published, and available as a plain text format, is that this is what makes things like the MusicXML plug-in possible. The specification is available as part of the plug-in development kit, which is available from MakeMusic's download site. It's incomplete, but it was enough for software developers like us to get started with. > I don't know how you'd go about finding out the state of Sibelius's finances. You might be as surprised as I was to learn that being a private limited liability company in the UK is very different than being a private limited liability company in the USA. You can purchase Sibelius's financial information in PDF format for about $5 from the WebCHeck service at: http://www.companieshouse.co.uk Sibelius has been making a nice profit for several years now. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Batch convert to .etf?
> And MusicXML is actually a better way to go than relying on Sib's > ability to decode ETF -- at least, from what I understand. Well, MusicXML has the potential to be a better way to go, but Sibelius can't read MusicXML files. Our Dolet for Sibelius plug-in can only export MusicXML files; it cannot import them. I think Brad found the best solution with the Save As... FinaleScript. We have gotten several requests for batch import and export of MusicXML files, so we are looking at adding this in a future release of our Dolet for Finale plug-in. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius version 4 has dynamic score/parts8
Hi Noel, > comparing Sibelius third party "plug-ins" with Finale third party > "plug-ins" is not a direct comparsion; unless Sibelius has written > their website with a peculiar inaccuracy, it appears to me that > what Sibelius calls a "plug in", MakeMusic calls a "Finale script" Close, but not quite. Sibelius's plug-ins are written in the ManuScript language, which is based on an early version of a scripting language called Simkin. You can do more in ManuScript than you can in FinaleScript, but nowhere near as much as you can do in a Finale plug-in. That's because: 1) ManuScript limits what you can access in a Sibelius file. This is the biggest problem. With Finale, you can access everything that is stored statically in a Finale file, and even some of the things computed dynamically like stem direction. 2) The ManuScript language has limited capabilities compared to most modern programming languages. There's not even an "else if" statement. 3) The ManuScript programming development environment is very limited compared to modern programming development environments. One of the nice improvements in Sibelius 4 is the expanded plug-in access to the musical data in a Sibelius score. This will allow us to do much better translations from Sibelius 4 to MusicXML, and from there to Finale. We will now be able to export articulations from Sibelius! Sibelius 4's MusicXML import also provides better translations from later versions of Finale than their ETF converter does. I don't think any ETF converter works nearly as well as our MusicXML plug-ins. Sibelius's is the only one I have seen that even comes close. So two-way score interchange will be much better with Finale 2006 and Sibelius 4 than it ever was before. But your point that Finale's data format is more open than Sibelius's remains true. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Help request for testing multilingual MusicXML support
Dear Finale list members, Recordare's Dolet 3.0 for Finale plug-in is entering the final stages of beta testing. This new version of our plug-in will both read and write MusicXML 1.1 files. It will be a much improved way to exchange files back and forth with Sibelius and to move files back to earlier versions of Finale. We could use some help is in support for lyrics and musical directions in languages from outside Western Europe - specifically, any languages that use something besides the ISO Latin-1 character set. I hope that we may be able to get some help from the international Finale list community to make things work better for different languages. We have some example files created with Finale for Windows in Russian, Hebrew, Lithuanian, and Polish, and these are working fine. It would be great if we could get some Finale files that are in other languages such as Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Greek, and Turkish, created either on Windows or Mac. We could also use Finale for Macintosh examples for Russian, Lithuanian, Hebrew, and Polish. Western European languages like English, French, German, and Italian are all set. It's languages that use other character sets where we could use your help (not just the ones listed above!) The ideal file would have the title, a musical direction, and some lyrics in the chosen language. Small files are fine; we're not interested in the quality of either the music or the engraving here. Please e-mail me (off-list) any files that you would be willing to contribute. These files will be used for our internal testing only. Thank you very much for any assistance that you can offer in making MusicXML work better for people around the world. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius v4
Hi Richard, > However, I have a significant investment already in > FINALE formatted files. I tried to import a couple > files and was not successful. Even after exporting > to ETF first and then importing. Your best way to transfer Finale files to Sibelius V4 is usually via MusicXML files rather than ETF files. This is especially true for newer versions of Finale. If you have Finale 2003 or later on Windows, use Plug-ins->MusicXML Export Light... to save the MusicXML file, then read the MusicXML file into the Sibelius 4 demo. To go the other way, from Sibelius to Finale, you need our Dolet for Sibelius plug-in to save the MusicXML file from Sibelius. For older versions of Finale on Windows or Macintosh OS X, you need our Dolet for Finale plug-in to export the MusicXML file. Finale 2006 has MusicXML import and export on the File menu on both Windows and Mac. More information about the Dolet plug-ins is available at: http://store.recordare.com/software.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius v4
Hi Brad, > Will the included MusicXML in Finale 2006 still be a "Dolet Lite" > version only, or will it now be fully included? That is to say, in > order to transfer entire contents of files (lyric, expressions, and > all), will it still be necessary to purchase the full version of > Dolet? The Finale 2006 version will import MusicXML 1.1 files and export MusicXML 1.0 files. This offers the greatest compatibility with older versions of Finale, which would not be able to handle the new MusicXML 1.1 features. We've fixed the 2006 software so that compatibility problem won't occur in the future if we release a MusicXML 1.2 format. The full version of the Dolet plug-in will add MusicXML 1.1 export (with improved formatting features) and batch translation. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] GPO/Kontakt Primer (and a Notion as well)
I have heard that Notion is demonstrating some pretty impressive MusicXML import from both Finale and Sibelius at summer NAMM, but I have not yet seen this myself. I believe that Notion will be the first program to support MusicXML import before it supports MIDI import. VirtuosoWorks' July 16 newsletter included the following information regarding file import and export: --- COMING SOON We are now adding file import of the following formats: - MusicXML - MusicPrinter Plus - MIDI files MusicXML import will be available via free download in a couple of weeks. The others, as well as the corresponding export functions will be available in the next few months. Stay tuned for details. --- Robert, Finale's playback is always MIDI based, though it can save to an audio file. Kontakt is basically a MIDI-controlled software sampler using the GPO samples. Note that Notion currently is a Windows-only product, though they have said that a Mac version should be ready this fall. If you want MusicXML export to work faster on Macs, please let MakeMusic know. When I saw Notion at winter NAMM, it wasn't really aiming at great performances of raw scores. Instead, it was trying to get great performances by controlling the sequencer through notation. You would use a marked up score for Notion performance the same way that you would mark up a score or part for human performance - thinking and working in musical terms, not in sequencer terms. The real test between Finale 2006 and Notion is not so much the quality of out-of-the-box playback. Rather it would be the combination of quality and ease of getting an interpretation that you want, rather than one that the program chooses by default. I hope to get the chance to try out Notion once the MusicXML import is completed. Besides his pioneering software work, Jack Jarrett is also a fine composer and conductor. I've had the privilege of participating in the premieres of some of his choral works under his direction. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Opening Finale files with Sibelius 4
Hi Dennis, Sibelius recommends using MusicXML for reading Finale files into Sibelius 4, especially for files created with Finale 2004 and later. The MusicXML import creates a more idiomatic Sibelius file than the old ETF importer, eliminating the need to cut and paste that Richard described. Text and smart shapes also transfer over, which doesn't happen with Finale 2004 ETF files. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Opening Finale files with Sibelius 4
Hi Dennis, > Neither import preserves the layout, nor measure attached > expressions, nor smart shapes (at least not mine) Layout transfer will be improved when using Finale 2006, and even more so with the upcoming version 3 of the Dolet for Finale plug-in. But measure-attached text expressions and smart shapes should transfer via the MusicXML file today. If you'd be willing to e-mail a sample Finale file to me off-list, I would be interested in looking at it to see where the problem may be. Thanks, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: Problem installing MusicXML.dll with Finale 2006 Windows
Hi Paul, That error message is misleading. Reboot your machine and all should be well. If not, please report back and mention which version of Windows you are using. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Finale2006 and GPO
Eric Dannewitz wrote: > Totally agree. I really think the GPO thing is fluff. I'd rather see > Finale get better at importing Midi files. I hate when a Midi that I've > done in Digital Performer does not come across correctly in Finale. It > happens all the time. It's frustrating, and wastes time. I think it would be a waste of MakeMusic's time to do much more work on the MIDI import. MIDI is not a very good format for representing music notation - it leaves way too much out, making programs guess at what the MIDI files mean. Computer programs aren't very good at guessing. You would get better results if Digital Performer (and Logic, and Cubase) exported MusicXML files. You could then read the notation into either Finale or Sibelius with much greater accuracy than MIDI will ever be able to provide. New notation-based programs like Notion are supporting MusicXML import before they support MIDI import. So I think that the people who can best solve moving files from Digital Performer to Finale are at MOTU rather than MakeMusic. If you agree, please let MOTU know. It means much more if they hear it from customers like you rather than a vendor like us. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Why MIDI import is guesswork for notation programs
Hi Eric, > Where is the guess work in MIDI files? If MIDI was good enough for music notation, there would have been no need to invent MusicXML. We invented MusicXML because there was no adequate way to transfer music notation between applications. MIDI's inadequacy for music notation is hardly controversial. You can buy a whole book called "Beyond MIDI" from MIT Press on pretty much this one topic. I discussed some of the details in section 3 of my XML 2001 presentation, available online at: http://www.idealliance.org/papers/xml2001/papers/html/03-04-05.html There is no such thing a note, a rest, or a triplet in MIDI. MIDI just has events that say "here's the start of a note" and "here's the end of a note". There's no concept of a whole note, much less a tuplet. There's not even a distinction between a C# and a Db. And then we're not even getting into all the non-note markings like slurs, expressions, cresc and diminuendo marks, chord symbols, and more. You may not care about those, but others do. In any program, choosing the right quantization settings can make a big difference in how well the MIDI import works. This lets the program make better guesses when reading in the MIDI file. MusicXML is a far better format than MIDI for transfering this music notation information, because it represents all these musical concepts directly. There's no guesswork involved. MusicXML is free for any company to use in their products, just like MIDI. It seems less than ideal for MakeMusic to put more effort into supporting a format that is rapidly becoming obsolete for use with music notation. It's great that Logic and Digital Performer do a better job of importing MIDI files. I'm sure they put a lot of work into making the right guesses about how MIDI's synthesizer-based ideas translate into notation. MIDI was not designed to support music notation, and it is a tribute to a lot of skilled people over the years that it has worked as well as it did. But you will get better results going from Digital Performer to Finale if Digital Performer starts saving MusicXML files. That is true no matter how much time, money, and effort MakeMusic puts into better MIDI import. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Playback
Hi Dennis, > On 31 Jul 2005,Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: > > No what? The new playback system (GPO/Kontakt) *does* output > standard Midi? Wasn't Michael Good's whole MusicXML argument > based on the fact that it doesn't? My writing must not have been very clear! That was about a different issue. Eric was rightfully complaining that MakeMusic's MIDI import isn't as good as it could be when he tries to move files from Digital Performer to Finale. There are two ways to solve that problem: 1) MakeMusic improves the MIDI import in Finale 2) Digital Performer writes MusicXML files in addition to MIDI files. If you want #1 to happen, it's best to contact MakeMusic. If you want #2 to happen, it's best to contact MOTU. If you want to solve the problem, it seems best to do both and see which solution appears more quickly. I suggested that #2 is a better way to solve the general problem of moving files from Digital Performer to either Finale or Sibelius. People did not seem interested in that :-). This has nothing to do with Finale's MIDI output. If you use the GPO features and save a MIDI file, it's still Standard MIDI, but not General MIDI. But I don't think that's different than customizing your Finale MIDI to any specific set of MIDI instruments in your studio. The difference is that a lot of the customization is built into Finale. Judging from this discussion, Finale 2006's GPO integration doesn't yet seem to be quite as seamless as what Notion does with its built-in playback. But will folks pay the extra several hundred dollars for Notion's ease of use, especially with its USB copy protection? It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Dolet 3 for Finale released
Dear Finale list members, Today Recordare released our Dolet 3 for Finale plug-in. Dolet 3 for Finale reads and writes MusicXML 1.1 files for better file exchange with Sibelius, SharpEye Music Reader, and the many other programs that read and write MusicXML files. Even if you use the built-in MusicXML functions in Finale 2006, Dolet 3 for Finale has two big advantages: 1) Batch translation. Dolet 3 lets you translate an entire folder of MusicXML files into Finale files, or an entire folder of Finale files into MusicXML files. If you have a lot of files to transfer, this is an enormous time saver. Batch translation requires Finale 2004 or later and is not included in the 30-day free trial. 2) MusicXML 1.1 export. Finale 2006 reads MusicXML 1.0 and 1.1 files, but it only writes MusicXML 1.0 files to ensure the greatest compatibility with older versions of Finale. Dolet 3 writes MusicXML 1.1 files as well as reading them, letting you transfer more formatting information to older versions of Finale, Sibelius 4, or other MusicXML 1.1 applications. Dolet 3 for Finale works with Finale 2000 to 2006 on Windows and 2004 to 2006 on Macintosh OS X. Macintosh OS 9 is not supported. It is available now for download and purchase from: http://store.recordare.com/dolet3fin.html New purchases are US $119.95. Upgrades from Version 1 on Windows are $69.95. Upgrades from Version 2 on Macintosh OS X are $49.95. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Cross-platform MAC / PC font display dilemna
Hi Liudas, > Is it possible to adjust something between MAC and PC so > that all letters in the Icelandic alphabet: > http://www.simnet.is/gardarj/misc/alph.htm > appear correctly on both platforms when sending a file > back and forth between MAC and PC? I don't think the cross-platform character set conversion works for anything other than the characters in common between MacRoman and the Windows-1252 character set. The Icelandic characters don't appear in the MacRoman character set. This is for the US version of Finale; I don't know how the Japanese version of Finale handles Japanese character set conversion, for instance. We are going to try to make this work better with MusicXML translations. Currently a MusicXML export should save the correct Icelandic characters on both Windows and Mac, but the import may not read them in correctly. We think we have found a way to solve the import problem, and hope to have that available in a maintenance release of Dolet 3. If you have examples of Mac and Windows files with correct Icelandic text that you would be willing to send us off-list, this would be much appreciated for our testing of this feature. If anybody knows a better solution, I would like to know as well! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: NoteWorthy Composer file conversion?
> Has anyone ever heard of a utility for converting between NoteWorthy > Composer (a PC-only program) and Finale (any version)? I've seen the occasional postings on the Noteworthy Composer boards about people trying to write a Noteworthy to MusicXML translator. But such things are difficult to do when the Noteworthy format isn't published. Somebody wrote one that is supposed to work with uncompressed NWC files. If you have such a file, e-mail it to me off-list and I'll be happy to try it out and see how it works. (I'm leaving on vacation soon, though, so it's best if I could test this in the next day or two.) If that doesn't work, your best bet is either to use MIDI, or print-and-scan using SharpEye Music Reader. > However, I'm pretty sure NWC can save as NIFF (Notation Interchange > File Format), which Finale is supposed to be able to read. I don't know any music notation editing program besides Lime that saves NIFF files, though music scanning programs do. Finale has never been able to read NIFF files. Sibelius used to read NIFF files on Windows, but this feature never worked very reliably and was dropped from Sibelius 4. > Apparently NIFF and MusicXML are fairly similar. Aside from being notation interchange formats, NIFF and MusicXML have little in common. MusicXML did borrow some small ideas from NIFF. NIFF had a lot of really smart people working on it, but for MusicXML's purposes it mostly served as an example of how not to do a music notation interchange format: - Don't use a graphical model. For example, there's no concept of pitch in NIFF, just staff line position. A notation interchange format should have musical concepts at its core, not graphical concepts. - Don't use a binary format; use a text format. Here we had an unfair advantage since XML hadn't been invented when NIFF was developed. - Don't develop an interchange format independent of working software. We would never have kept going with the MusicXML format if we hadn't been able to build a working translator for either Finale or Sibelius. If your interchange format can't work with at least one of the market leaders, who is going to want to use it? Those who are interested can find more details at: http://www.idealliance.org/papers/xml2001/papers/html/03-04-05.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Cross-platform MAC / PC font display dilemna
Hi Hiro, Internally, Finale files don't use Unicode. Everything is stored in the older language-specific encodings. That's the core of our problem with translating back and forth to MusicXML. Getting from the language-specific encoding to Unicode is easier than going the other way. So we can export the different languages to MusicXML, but we don't yet import different languages into Finale reliably. But I think we know how to solve this in the future. The US version of Finale automatically converts between MacRoman and Windows-1252, but not between other character sets. What I don't know is if the Japanese version automatically converts between Mac Japanese and MS932, or just does the MacRoman / 1252 conversion. The Japanese files we have here display fine on the OS that produced them, but don't display correctly when you cross platforms. Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale 2006 still not Unicode
Finale 2006 is still not Unicode, but it is *not* limited to the Western European characters in Cp1252 / MacRoman. Finale supports many different scripts, including double-byte characters for Japanese and other languages. We've been busy collecting examples of different languages for our XML support, and the Japanese examples for both Mac and Windows are exporting fine to MusicXML. In the future we hope to get the import working better too, but it's easier to go from the national character sets to XMl's Unicode than vice-versa. Sibelius 4 does support Unicode. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: Making Engraver Slurs fixed
Hi Johannes, > do I really have to go to each page, select all in the smart shape > tool and press up-arrow then down-arrow? I'm afraid so. > Any chance someone could make a plugin which can change all > slurs into non-engraver slurs without loosing their > positioning? To do this, the plug-in developer would need to replicate Finale's engraver slur positioning algorithm. This would probably be a pretty costly endeavor. Sorry not to have better news. We looked into doing this here for the same reasons you mention. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: MusicXML missing?
Hi Aaron, As you have discovered, the error message is wrong. What it really is complaining about is that it can't find the version of Java that the MusicXML functions need. Usually rebooting your machine after installing Finale will fix this. There's no need to uninstall any earlier versions of the Dolet plug-in from earlier versions of Finale. As Allan mentioned, the Finale 2006 installer should be putting a DoletLight.exe file in your Finale 2006 directory. This is the installer for repairing an installation in case you do need to uninstall and reinstall. The only time you should need to do that is if you didn't have Java 1.4 or 5.0 on your machine before installing Finale. If this doesn't help, please let us know what version of Windows you are using. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Unicode Symbols and Finale
Hello Jörg, You can enter Turkish or other characters into Finale, but you need to specify the native Windows or Mac character set. Finale lets you set the script for different types of text. I think if you search the archives you will find some hints on how to do this, as well as on the MakeMusic forum. On Windows XP, I can do this by using the alt+numpad method for the Unicode encodings - copy and paste does get the ? character for me. Sibelius does support Unicode. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Graphical scores
Dennis, I really don't think you want to jump ship to Sibelius, for two major reasons: 1) The copy protection on Sibelius is similar to that for Finale 2004 - in some ways more liberal, in some ways less, but more similar than not. 2) Sibelius is less feature-rich for your music than Finale is. Graphical scores are a great example. Sibelius doesn't have built-in custom graphics; you need to create them outside the program and import them in. For most musicians this is probably no big deal. But it means that you couldn't create graphical scores directly in Sibelius, much less import graphical scores from Finale. Finale and Sibelius are both fine programs, but each one works better for some people than others. Having seen your scores and read your e-mails, I find it very difficult to imagine that you would be happier with Sibelius 3 than Finale 2003. Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Unicode Symbols and Finale
Hi Jörg, Weldon, and David, Thanks for this discussion. I've been meaning to get this working here and this finally gave me the impetus to do it. Cut and paste works - as does typing directly - if you set up a Windows keyboard for the language you're using. I've tested this on Windows XP with both Turkish and Japanese, and it should work the same way on Windows 2000. It most likely won't work on 98 or ME since they don't have Unicode support. On XP, you add the keyboard by going to: Settings -> Control Panel -> Regional and Language Options Choose the Languages tab, then click on the "Details..." button under Text services and input languages. From there, use the Add... button to add your language. When you're in Finale, change your Windows input keyboard to the language you need (usually by using left alt-shift). You can then type in the Turkish or other characters directly if you know the keyboard layout, or cut and paste from Notepad. I didn't try typing in directly with a Japanese input method editor since I haven't used one before. If you are doing cut and paste, make sure the keyboard is set to the correct language both when you cut from Notepad and when you paste into Finale. Also make sure you have your Finale text expression set to the correct script (e.g. Turkish or Japanese, not Western). Since Sibelius supports Unicode, you don't have to go through all these extra steps - cut and paste just works. It sure would be easier if Finale supported Unicode, but at least it's possible once things are set up correctly. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Dolet for Finale Mac OS X beta
Our OS X version of Dolet for Finale has entered its public beta test. This is the plug-in that lets Finale read and write MusicXML files. We will be having a limited number of beta testers for this product. If you are interested in participating, please fill out the beta application form at: http://www.recordare.com/finale/osxbeta.html Since it only runs on OS X, it won't help the Finale 2004 to 2003 problem unless you have 2004 on OS X and 2003 on Windows. But if you are trying to exchange between Finale 2004 and other programs, you might find it very helpful. The current list of programs supporting MusicXML is at: http://www.recordare.com/software.html Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: TAN: MusicPad Pro Plus and MuseBook Score
The current version of the FreeHand MusicPad Pro stores music as images. There's no MusicXML or other music format present. If you want an electronic music stand that does use MusicXML, recognizes the music as you play it, and turns the pages for you automatically, check out the MuseBook Score: http://www.musebook.com This is the first commercial electronic music stand product that we have seen with musical intelligence built in. It just started shipping for piano and MIDI keyboards, supporting piano/keyboard music. So you can work on a piano piece in Finale, export it to MusicXML, and read the music into your MuseBook. I just demoed this last week when giving a guest lecture at Stanford and it worked just as advertised. Unlike the MusicPad Pro, the MuseBook is a Windows software program. So you can use your laptop as a music stand for your MIDI keyboard. My laptop shows three systems of music at a time with no problems in landscape mode. If you want to use it with a piano, you'll probably want to use it on a Tablet PC and display in portrait mode. Both products have features that the other one doesn't. But naturally we're very excited to see an electronic music stand that uses a music format rather than an image format. As Mark mentioned, MusicXML was designed to make this type of innovative application easier to build and bring to market. So it's great to see it succeeding this way! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: TAN: MusicPad Pro Plus and MuseBook Score
Hi Mark, Yes, MuseBook Score listens to your keyboard or piano playing and animates the score as you go. You just need to play one note correctly to move forward. It works well for my pretty poor piano playing, especially since I can drop out the left hand when things get difficult. There are many score following options available, but a more typical problem might be jumping ahead rather than getting stuck. The microphone is mounted on the piano soundboard, while MIDI keyboards use the MIDI connection. Currently it's only for piano and MIDI keyboards, not for other instruments. It works OK on music trade show floors which can get pretty loud! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: Microsoft gains double-clicking patent
The problem is more in the press coverage, I think. This is not a double-clicking patent; it is a patent on a specific way to combine click, press, and double-click on cell-phone like devices in order to launch applications. I've not aware of any prior art which meets the patent claims, though I'm not an expert on the latest cell phone and PDA user interfaces. For those who want to read the actual patent, it's available at: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=6727830 Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: EPS at last: Finale 2004c.r1 Updater pre-release
Sibelius 3 can create EPS files on my Windows XP system with no problems. It doesn't even give you an error message about having to select a PostScript printer driver. Sibelius manages to figure that out all by itself. I can't see any justification for calling this a Windows problem. There's a user on the Finale message board who seems to have identified the core of the problem with the fonts and has suggested ways that MakeMusic could fix it. If his analysis is correct, it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to do. It's good to see a Macintosh fix coming, but it is most disappointing not to see it for Windows too. Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Followup On Tempo Tool Problems -- Solution & Confusion
David H. Bailey wrote: > It requires you to save the Finale files in ETF, and it won't > recognize the most recent Finale versions at all. And when > it does the importing, it loses a lot of the formatting. Sibelius 3.1.3 imports Finale 2004b ETF files; it's Sibelius 2 that can have problems with more recent versions. You do need ETF files, and some formatting and other data (e.g. most smart shapes, 2004 text expressions) are lost. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Apostrophes and ? -- Converting MAC to WIN
Character set conversion between Mac and Windows was fixed in 2002b. So upgrade both your Mac and Windows Finale to that version - it's free if you're a 2002 user - and you should be fine. This works for converting between MacRoman and Windows 1252 character sets. Other character set conversions still seem to cause problems, at least for the files I have tried that use Eastern European character sets. I guess I should try TGTools on those and see if that works... Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: Accidentals font for microtones
> Thanks - extremely helpful to have a proper set in a font, rather > than my Engraver 'modifications'. I've been a satisfied customer > with the Tuplet Numbers font for some time, too. Aren't the Tartini-style quarter-tone accidentals in Maestro Percussion a proper set? It's a different notation convention for quarter tones that what Matthew describes. So one might prefer one over the other, and it's good to have both available. But aren't they both proper, or is there some other distinction that I'm missing? Thanks, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: OT: Domain Name Registration
I highly recommend GoDaddy.com for domain name registration! They charge $8/year vs. the $35/year of other companies, or even the prices charged by other companies recommended so far. Yet I find their service and features better than our other registrars like Network Solutions or Register.com. What you trade off for the lower price is 1) the support number is not toll-free, and 2) you have to click through a few ads when you order something - but the defaults are always set appropriately and clicking through is easy. They've been around for many years so they have a track record too. I'll take the better service and lower prices any time! We're in the process of transferring all our domain names over to them, which is why you won't see them all listed there yet - but you will. This is just for the domain name registration. I don't know what's good for web hosting for Mac-based users. Our host is Windows-specific so I wouldn't recommend them for your needs. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com (or for a GoDaddy domain, www.dolet.com) ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: OT: Domain Name Registration
Hi Darcy, Keeping domain registration and web hosting separate is a good idea. The companies best at one service are not necessarily best at another. We don't host anything at GoDaddy.com; we just use their registrar service. The easiest tool to find out who has a domain name is probably www.whois.sc. For instance, www.whois.sc/djargon.com will list the same information that Brad posted in an earlier message. If you do a lot of searches at once, you'll have to register, but they haven't spammed me. Good luck! Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] MusicXML plug-in now available for OS X
Recordare has released version 2.0 of our Dolet for Finale plug-in that reads and writes MusicXML files. This plug-in runs on OS X and supports Finale 2004 and 2005. Together with our Dolet for Sibelius plug-in, you can now read Sibelius files into Finale much more accurately than with MIDI. You can also go read Finale 2005 files into Finale 2004. This is all done by exporting a MusicXML file from one application, then reading the MusicXML file into the other application. It's like using Standard MIDI Files, but with much more complete and accurate results. We're happy to finally give Finale for Macintosh the ability to share music files with the 35+ other music applications that support MusicXML. There are also many features in 2.0 that aren't yet available in our Windows version 1.5. The plug-in has a 30-day free trial. You may download and purchase it from: http://store.recordare.com/doletfin2.html We have also update the Windows version of Dolet for Finale to version 1.5, adding Finale 2005 support and fixing bugs. Our Dolet for Sibelius plug-in has also been updated to version 1.2, improving the user interface and fixing bugs. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Scanner recommendations?
In terms of scanner hardware, it's pretty much a commodity market. Any $99 scanner should be fine. As James mentioned, be sure to get a flatbed scanner for laying books and scores flat. You may also find a legal-size scanner to be helpful compared to a letter-size scanner - or an even bigger area if you have the room and money - and those will cost a bit more. I use a Microtek scanner here, but there are lots of good choices. In terms of software and ease of scanning, as you can see the answer is "it depends". SharpEye Music Reader is generally the most accurate music scanner, but it's only available on Windows. Johannes is on a Mac, so he hasn't used SharpEye with its accurate handling of polyphony, and unfortunately condemns the whole area of music scanning. Since you're on Windows, you can get very good results. (On OS X, some people also get good results with the full versions of SmartScore and PhotoScore Professional.) The critical factors are: - How complicated is the music? - How well printed is the source material? - How fast are you at Finale? We have plenty of customers who save enormous time using SharpEye and MusicXML to get music into Finale. How well it works for you will depend on your situation. You can download SharpEye and try it free for 30 days from: http://store.recordare.com/sharpeye2.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Public Domain Music
A great summary of when things enter the public domain *for the USA only* is Lolly Gasaway's page at: http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm Again, these are USA specific rules. Much of the rest of the world uses life + 70 years or life + 50 years. If it's vocal music, take into account the life of the poet as well as the composer. I suspect that the Bartok CD Sheet Music you mentioned is not for sale in Europe. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Open Source Music Font -- a good idea?
Hi John, There has been more interest in open source music fonts on the MusicXML developers mailing list, since people there are writing new music software: http://www.recordare.com/lists#MusicXML The Unicode Western music symbols have been part of Unicode since version 3.1. But neither Finale nor Sibelius - nor any other commercial music software that I know of - support the Unicode mappings. Many programs and languages will have trouble with the Unicode Western Musical Symbols because they need more than 16 bits to represent their code points. There are already freely distributable music fonts available, such as the MusiTone font at: http://www.icogitate.com/~ergosum/fonts/music-fonts2.htm Whether or not a font is freely distributable is a different question than whether it follow the Unicode mappings. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Virtual singer
> However, what IS amazing about it is an add-on called VIRTUAL SINGER. Even better, Myriad just released Harmony Assistant 9.0.5 with MusicXML support. So you can export a MusicXML file from Finale and import it into Harmony Assistant with much more accurate transfer than MIDI - including lyrics! Version 9.0.5 also includes beta MusicXML export for going the other way, from Harmony Assistant to Virtual Singer. I've tried it on a couple of files and it's pretty good. It would be cool indeed if Finale's internal playback had this type of singing capability. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: scanning typeset scores
> does anything like sharpeye exist for mac, > or is smartscore my only option? PhotoScore Professional is another option on OS X. Like SharpEye, it saves MusicXML files that you can then import into Finale with our Dolet plug-in. Its more limited in its support for contrapuntal voices than SharpEye, though. Since our Dolet plug-in does not run on OS 9, I think SmartScore is your only option there. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: OT: Who are you?
Great thread, Bob! I was born and raised in Detroit, started piano at 5 and switched to trumpet at 10. I was one of the better trumpet players in our high school and dabbled in composition. But a couple of summers at Interlochen made it clear that it would be best for me to be a professional in another field. So I went to MIT, got my B.S. and M.S. degrees in computer science, and played trumpet in just about every group there. You can still hear my section trumpet playing in the MIT Symphony Orchestra CDs out on Vox, including my favorite recording of Howard Hanson's Piano Concerto with Eugene List. My bachelor's thesis was done at the MIT Experimental Music Studio, one of the groups that later became part of the MIT Media Lab. That software later became part of the Csound package. My master's thesis took me into the area of making computers more usable, where I stayed professionally for 20 years: first at DEC, then at a virtual reality startup, then moving from Boston to California to join SAP. Five years ago, I went back to music software in starting Recordare. Recordare was started as an Internet music publishing company, but the first order of business was to create a common format so that one piece of digital sheet music could be used with any music notation software on your computer. So most of my time has been spent creating and evangelizing the MusicXML format, together with our MusicXML plug-ins for Finale and Sibelius. Musically, I switched from trumpet to voice over 15 years ago. I currently sing with choruses in the Silicon Valley area south of San Francisco, including the Stanford Symphonic Chorus, West Bay Opera, and the Cabrillo Festival in Santa Cruz (when they do big choral works like the Bernstein Mass). Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Scan and Default doc
Hi Hiro, First, thanks for the beautiful music you shared with us at the holidays! > Do you not think it is strange Finale has a separate default for > SmartScan? I wonder what scenario anyone would benefit from it... The developers of the SmartScore import feature would benefit from it. It is much easier to develop an importer of any type for Finale if you can control what the default document looks like. A large part of our MusicXML software is devoted to *not* making assumptions about the default file, and instead just using what is there. We would make our development work simpler by just using a hard-coded default file, but it wouldn't work as well for plug-in users. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garage Band 2
Thanks for thinking of MusicXML as a way to get from GarageBand 2 (and Logic) into Finale. As with most applications, it's best if you contact the manufacturer directly about adding MusicXML support. It always works better if they hear from customers, not just from us. But if GarageBand 2 doesn't even let you export MIDI files yet, just import them, it's probably not going to happen right away! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com -Original Message- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 08:06:37 +1100 From: Matthew Hindson Fastmail Account <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Finale] Garage Band 2 To: finale@shsu.edu Mark D Lew wrote: >Or maybe Recordare will look into creating a utility to convert them > to MusicXML? If they could it would be great, because since GB is based on Logic, we would have some hope of directly exporting MusicXML files from Logic as well. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] MusicXML 1.1 underway - suggestions?
We have been hard at work on Version 1.1 of the MusicXML format. Our customers have told us that while MusicXML software translates the music itself very nicely, they want more of the musical formatting to translate too. Since so many of our customers are using MusicXML to share files between Finale and other programs, I wanted to post an update on this mailing list. MusicXML 1.1 will improve music notation interchange by including more data about music formatting. This should be a big help for exchanging files between Finale and other programs, or between newer and older versions of Finale. We are also adding several new musical features to the format. Because we are adding features to MusicXML 1.0, not changing them, every valid MusicXML 1.0 file will also be a valid MusicXML 1.1 file. If there are features you would like to see in MusicXML, or in our Dolet plug-in, now is the time to let us know! If we don't hear about it, it won't get into MusicXML 1.1. Feel free to send suggestions via our contact form at http://www.recordare.com/contact.html The new features in MusicXML 1.1 are being discussed and reviewed on our MusicXML mailing list. These discussions get pretty technical, since we need to make sure that MusicXML 1.1's new features works well for software developers. If you are interested in following or joining the discussion, please sign up at: http://www.recordare.com/lists#MusicXML Thanks for your help! Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: capella to Finale
Hi Dennis, Martin gave you the two best options for going from capella to Finale. I would try CapToMusic first. It exports MusicXML 1.1 files while capella Media Producer exports MusicXML 1.0 files. So the translations tend to be more accurate using CapToMusic. Another link for it is: http://bjungmann.privat.t-online.de/CapXMLSkripte.htm#CapToMusic In general, a good source for finding out if there's a good way to transfer music from another program to Finale is to look at our MusicXML software page: http://www.recordare.com/software.html If the other program can write a MusicXML file, Finale should be able to read it. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] MusicXML 1.2 project starting soon
dc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > XML does seem to be the best standard for exchanging music > notation files. Thanks! MusicXML support is up to over 60 applications now, and the quality of the translations keeps getting better over time. We are about to start development on the next version of MusicXML, version 1.2. All valid MusicXML 1.0 and 1.1 files will still be valid MusicXML 1.2 files, but we will be adding new features. The main goal is to make MusicXML a better distribution format for music notation files. If anyone is interested in participating in the MusicXML 1.2 design process, please sign up for the MusicXML e-mail discussion list at: http://www.recordare.com/lists#MusicXML Feel free to send MusicXML suggestions to me off-list if you don't want to sign up for yet another mailing list. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: capella to Finale
dc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > CapToMusic seems to give excellent results with some files. > But with others, it generates incomprehensible (for me and > at least one other person) error messages, and the resulting > XML files won't import into Finale. Thanks for the feedback. If you can e-mail me examples of the files that create problems off-list, I can take a look at them and forward them on to Bernd. > By the way, what does the full Dolet plug-in for Finale do > that the standard version doesn't do? The quick answer: - Batch import and export - MusicXML 1.1 export - Better import from Sibelius - Works with more versions of Finale - More frequent updates and bug fixes For the full answer: http://www.recordare.com/finale/dolet-upgrade.html http://www.recordare.com/finale/v3-versions.html The MusicXML version in Finale 2007 corresponds to Dolet for Finale version 3.2. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: MusicXML 1.2 project starting soon
Hi Hiro, "A-NO-NE Music" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How about from newer Fin version to older one, say FinMac2007 > toFinMac2005? If it is possible, i.e., 2007 created file > converting to 2005 format via MusicXML for distributing to > students who only have 2005, then it would be very valuable. Dolet 3 for Finale does this very accurately using MusicXML 1.1, though not quite perfectly. You can download the 30-day free trial from: http://store.recordare.com/dolet3fin.html Install the plug-in in both Finale 2007 and Finale 2005. Export the MusicXML file from 2007 and then import it into 2005. When you install this plug-in, be sure to use the MusicXML functions from the Plug-in menu rather than from the File menu. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Music notation for the tablet PC?
Hi Andrew, Folks at Brown wrote a Music Notepad for Tablet PC. It's open source and available via: http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/research/music/tpc.html Microsoft distributed a version of this as a Tablet PC Power Toy (the Music Composition Tool). A great project would be to make this into a useful tool for Tablet PC users. First priority would be to add MusicXML export, so the results of a Tablet PC sketch could be imported into Finale, PrintMusic, or any other program that reads MusicXML files. Once you have that working, you could probably find lots of other things worth working on. But that would make a great starting point! If your student needs more information on MusicXML, specs, a tutorial, samples, mailing list signup, and more are available at: http://www.recordare.com/xml.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: score vs. finale
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This goes to the heart of these programs' purposes. I agree with the distinction that you are making between the purposes of notation and engraving programs. > In this adolescent period of music software, no set of > programs can act upon the concepts predicated by the > others. As you might guess, I don't agree with this at all. There are over 60 programs supporting the MusicXML format to some extent: http://www.recordare.com/software.html Most germane for this discussion is that MusicXML 1.1 can be used to export a very highly detailed representation of Finale files. It is so detailed in terms of formatting that programs like musicRAIN have used it to render scores that are indistinguishable from the Finale originals. Publishers already use SipXML2Score to convert MusicXML files exported from Finale into Score format. MusicXML is not "insufficient to the task" as you state. It isn't perfect, of course, and MusicXML 1.2 is currently in development. At this point, the gaps in accuracy in any of these translations tend to be due to economics more than technology. How many people will pay how much money for improved translation accuracy between notation and engraving programs? Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: score vs. finale
Hi Dennis, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The last time I tried it, as you may recall, the transfer of > vector images and other graphical score actions was a disaster... The limitations you mention are what I meant when I said that gaps in translation tend to be due to economics more than technology. The technology is there to fill those gaps, but nobody (yet) wants to pay the product development costs. Similarly, the technology is there for one set of programs to act upon the concepts predicated by the other. But that currently happens only to the extent that it is commercially viable. Nearly all format translations lose data to some extent due to differences between the interchange format and the native program format. Translations work best when going from one program to another at a handoff in the process (e.g. a composer using Sibelius and a publisher using Finale, or vice versa). The notation/engraving distinction is a natural handoff point and is currently used for composers using Finale and publishers using Score. Translations don't have to be lossless to be useful; they need to be good enough to make it less costly than re-entry. MusicXML meets that test very well, and the software is getting more and more accurate over time. Best reards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: score vs. finale
Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > unless, of course, you were referring only > to (cough, cough) 19th century notation. MusicXML represents common Western music notation. So the less common the notation, the less likely it is that 1) MusicXML supports it, or 2) MusicXML software supports it. If the music itself has a limited commercial market, it's unlikely there is much of a commercial market for software that supports it. Changing this situation may require getting a non-profit institution to fund the necessary software development up front. Commonality is really the key, rather than century (at least from the 17th onwards). MusicXML and its software supports recent innovations in pop music notation better than innovations in non-pop. Another example is staggered barlines, which Mozart was using in the 18th century, never mind the 19th. But they are not common, then or now. MusicXML supports them, but our Dolet software reflects Finale and Sibelius's limitations there. Thanks for the pointer to your blog post. We're working on new features for MusicXML 1.2 so this is useful input. "Kim Patrick Clow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The full version of Dolet can not translate > the figured bass (which is input in Finale as a > lyric), nor can it handle > articulation markings such as daggers. > :( > When will those issues be addressed? Figured bass is tricky to export from Finale because there's no standard way to do it. Lyrics, chords, expressions, and text blocks are all possibilities, and third-party fonts are commonly used. Combine that with the general lack of market demand and you get something that probably needs to be paid for directly via a consulting project: http://www.recordare.com/xml/consulting.html I am not sure what you are referring to in terms of dagger articulation markings. Could you please e-mail me an example Finale score off-list so I can investigate further? Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: Importing a score
Hi Will, Importing a score via scanning can work very well, and often better than MIDI import. It depends on the nature of the music and how fast you are with Finale. Some of the folks answering before are very fast with Finale, so manual entry works better for them. If you're not a full-time Finale user and your music is not too densely spaced, you will probably find that scanning can save you a lot of time. The choice of scanning software is crucial. What comes built-in with programs like Finale and Sibelius does not work so well. If you are on Windows, many people find that SharpEye Music Reader is the most accurate scanning program overall. There's a 30-day free trial so you can see how well it works for you: http://store.recordare.com/sharpeye2.html SharpEye does not handle PDFs directly, so you need a graphics program to extract TIF image files (1 image file per page) before scanning. Try both scanning and MIDI import and see what works best for you. Every situation is different. Good luck! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Japanese fonts - Hiragana or Katakana
Hi Hiro, > Just make sure you did use double-byte Katakana in your > example? Do you have other example which has Kanji? Our Japanese example includes Kanji text in the title as well as the Katakana lyrics. You may want to look at the XML to see the fonts that we used. I have found that choice of font is important with Finale, both on Mac and Windows, and I think we have have had a problem with using the MS Gothic font. Also remember to set the text script to Japanese, a step which is neither necessary nor possible on Mac. I have not tried any of this on Windows 2000, just on Windows XP. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] etf export library ?
Hi Max, > i'm wondering if there's a c/c++/objective-c library > for input/output of etf files. > maybe someone wrote an etf converter from scratch? ETF is no longer supported by Finale as of Finale 2007. 2007 will read ETF files but will not write them. We wrote an ETF converter once, but found that it was much more accurate to convert Finale files from a Finale plug-in instead. If you want to write out a music file that Finale and other music programs can read, your best bet is to use the MusicXML format. It is supported by over 60 applications, including Finale and PrintMusic. You can then use free, industry-standard libraries to read and write XML files. It is a lot easier to learn and use than ETF! For more information, see the MusicXML site at: http://www.recordare.com/xml.html This includes the MusicXML specifications, a tutorial, sample files, papers and presentations, links to the signup for the MusicXML developer mailing list, links to software that supports MusicXML, and much more. If you have more detailed questions, feel free to ask me off-list. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Japanese fonts - Hiragana or Katakana
Hi Hiro and Bruce, > Not sure if I understand this. Is this a WinFin specific thing > that I can't find? Yes, it is WinFin specific. And if you can't find it, Japanese text will indeed not work on WinFin. Go to any dialog box for setting fonts in WinFin and there will be a list box in the lower left-hand corner titled Script. By default on US Finale / Windows, it will be set to Western. You need to set it to Japanese to get any Japanese font to work correctly. But this is not sufficient; you need to follow the other steps for dealing with non-Unicode Windows applications that I described in my earlier messages. If you don't see a Japanese choice in the drop-down list, you need to select a different font that supports Japanese script. This should work with Japanese scripts without any remapping needed. I would really try to use Japanese fonts that follow standard Windows encodings to avoid problems in the future. As Dennis mentioned, Sibelius has supported Unicode for many versions now. If Unicode input is really important to you for different projects, you may want to consider it. Maybe you could type in the Unicode text and basic music in Sibelius, then export/import via MusicXML to Finale for more detailed music editing? Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Japanese fonts - Hiragana or Katakana
Hi Hiro, > It's all blank, white, pitch white(!) > Nothing I can select(!) Make sure you have a real font that's really installed on your computer selected at the top of the box. You'll get an empty list like you describe if the font isn't available, or is somehow misinstalled. If you still see a blank list with something like Times New Roman, then I'm afraid I can't help. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tip for Mac users of the NMA online edition
> Do you know whether this is simply for the public's benefit As David mentioned, it does indeed seem to be for the public's benefit. I met the Dr. Leisinger and many other musicologists, mostly from Germany, at the "Digitale Medien und Musikedition" symposium in Mainz last November. It was a great meeting where we discussed many different projects and possibilities for digital music editions. The current NMA online edition is only a first step; they plan to bring it into the symbolic digital world using some home-grown scanning technology. You can read more about the symposium on line. Nearly all of the presentations, including mine, are available at the symposium web site: http://www.adwmainz.de/index.php?id=491 If you can read German, you can read the contribution by Dr. Leisinger and his colleagues about the Digital Mozar Edition at: http://www.adwmainz.de/fileadmin/adwmainz/MuKo_Veranstaltungen/S2-Digi tale_Medien/mozart-text.pdf David Packard contributed a lot of the money towards renovating the California Theatre in downtown San Jose into an opera house. It's a beautiful 1000-seat house that we desperately needed both for the opera and symphony; I've had great experiences there both as a choral singer and audience member. So what was the opening production? Le nozze di Figaro, of course! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Tip for Mac users of the NMA online edition
> Do you know whether this is simply for the public's benefit As David mentioned, it does indeed seem to be for the public's benefit. I met the Dr. Leisinger and many other musicologists, mostly from Germany, at the "Digitale Medien und Musikedition" symposium in Mainz last November. It was a great meeting where we discussed many different projects and possibilities for digital music editions. The current NMA online edition is only a first step; they plan to bring it into the symbolic digital world using some home-grown scanning technology. You can read more about the symposium on line. Nearly all of the presentations, including mine, are available at the symposium web site: http://www.adwmainz.de/index.php?id=491 If you can read German, you can read the contribution by Dr. Leisinger and his colleagues about the Digital Mozar Edition at: http://www.adwmainz.de/fileadmin/adwmainz/MuKo_Veranstaltungen/S2-Digi tale_Medien/mozart-text.pdf David Packard contributed a lot of the money towards renovating the California Theatre in downtown San Jose into an opera house. It's a beautiful 1000-seat house that we desperately needed both for the opera and symphony; I've had great experiences there both as a choral singer and audience member. So what was the opening production? Le nozze di Figaro, of course! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Japanese & Chinese Finale
Hi Robert and Bruce, Cameo is Finale's distributor in Japan, and they produce the Japanese version: www.cameo.co.jp Finale does not handle Unicode, but it supports the old native character sets on both Windows and Macintosh. For Japanese, native character sets are multi-byte, not ASCII. For our Dolet 3 for Finale plug-in, we just use resource files in multiple languages (including Japanese). That way, the same plug-in works with the Japanese, German, and other localizations of Finale. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: DP quickscribe into Finale
Recordare has just released version 3.6 of Dolet for Finale to improve the import of MusicXML files from PDFtoMusic Pro. System breaks in particular will work better with Dolet 3 for Finale than the built-in MusicXML in Finale 2007. We also sell PDFtoMusic Pro on our site, and there is a discount when PDFtoMusic Pro and Dolet 3 for Finale are purchased together. For more information, see: http://store.recordare.com/pdftomusicpro.html Note that PDFtoMusic Pro works not just with Digital Performer, but with any program where you can print PDFs. We have tested it here with Encore, Mosaic, and HB Engraver files and it's the best way we have seen to get files from any of those programs into Finale. It really is a revolutionary product. Note that this price also contains free updates for all future versions. That's something you usually don't see with software products these days! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: DP quickscribe into Finale
Hi Matthew, I'm sorry to hear about your negative first experience with PDFtoMusic Pro. Was the PDF created in DP, Mosaic, or another program? PDFtoMusic Pro does have some issues with layer assignment, but I haven't seen the other issues that you mention as more than an occasional error. If you would be willing to send the problematic PDF to me off-list with permission to forward it (or just a page or two that show the problems) to the developers, that would be great. One of the amazing things about PDFtoMusic Pro is that all future updates are free. The program is really useful right now for lots of PDF files, but everyone knows there's more to do to make it even better. Thanks, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: PDFtoMusic Pro
Hello Johannes and all, Yes, PDFtoMusic Pro is available for download and purchase from our web site at: http://store.recordare.com/pdftomusicpro.html The trial version lets you work with one page at a time. For people on this list, this is really a revolutionary way for getting files from programs that don't currently write MusicXML (e.g. Logic, Cubase, Digital Performer, Mosaic, Amadeus, Encore, Overture, and even older programs like HB Engraver) into Finale format. Print a PDF file from those programs, run PDFtoMusic Pro to create the MusicXML file, and import that MusicXML file into Finale. The MusicXML built into Finale 2007 will work well, but the latest Dolet 3.6 for Finale plug-in adds some optimizations for PDFtoMusic Pro for even better results. It's not perfect, but for most people this is far better than the alternatives of MIDI, print/scan, and manual re-entry. Updates are free for the life of the product. There have already been two updates with new features since the product was released earlier this month. As David and Dennis have mentioned, the key to PDFtoMusic Pro is that it works with PDF files printed from music notation programs. Unlike optical scanners like SharpEye and capella-scan, PDFtoMusic Pro doesn't have to guess that a collection of dots on a page is a staff line or a notehead. It can work directly from the vector graphics and the music fonts that are in the PDF file. The music fonts do need to be embedded in the PDF file for it to work. If you are scanning from paper, or from TIFF files created from a notation program, then you would still need to use the optical music recognition programs. Dennis, there can be variability between programs, especially if you use it with notation files created from a program that has not been used with PDFtoMusic Pro very much yet. But those issues are usually fixed quickly by the Myriad development team. Whether it's worth the price depends in large part on the value of your time. Most professional users find it pays itself back the first one or two times they use it, assuming they have a job that can make use of these features. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Enclosures and other font alterations in lyrics
Hi Brennon, While you can do this type of analysis in Finale, it might be easier to use a more specialized analysis tool for this type of work. One possibility is the tonica and tonica plus products. Though many people use them for auto-harmonization, they are also useful for creating analyses. More information is available at: http://www.recordare.com/capella/tonica.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: Removing embedded graphics
Hi Dennis, Doesn't Graphics -> Check All Graphics... do what you need? It lists all the graphics in the file and lets you embed or link on a graphic-by-graphic basis. So you can embed a linked graphic or link an embedded graphic - it exports the embedded graphic to a file of your choice. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Removing embedded graphics
Hi Dennis, But, for new files, what happens if you use Check All Graphics... to link the file instead of embed it? Doesn't the embedded graphic go away? As with expressions, Finale graphics have separate data structures for the graphics itself and the assignment of the graphics to a particular place in the music. When you delete the graphic, it appears that you are deleting the assignment, but leaving the embedded graphic data orphaned. What I am suggesting is that instead of deleting the graphic and placing it again, you instead use Check All Graphics... to unlink the embedded file. Does that work for you for new scores? I understand that it wouldn't help with old scores with orphaned embedded graphics. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Removing embedded graphics
> It seems, no. Once embedded, always embedded. That sure sounds like a bug then. Please report it to MakeMusic technical support to improve the chances that it might be fixed in the future! Sorry that my suggestion didn't work out for you. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re:[Finale] Finale Feature Request--MIDI--...
Hi Bob, MIDI files leave out most notation information, so the interpretation of MIDI files to produce good notation is quite an art form. Finale does well with the basic cases, but as the files get more complicated, the results get worse. I would recommend using another program that can do a better job of transcribing the MIDI into notation, and then transfer the results into Finale using a MusicXML file. If you are on Windows, one direct way to do this is to use Notation Composer. This is one of the best programs we have seen for transcribing MIDI files into notation, especially for the price. Read the MIDI file in, save the result as a MusicXML file, then read the MusicXML file into Finale. It is available for download and purchase from: http://store.recordare.com/notationcomp.html If you are on Mac or are already using a sequencer like Digital Performer that does high-quality MIDI to notation transcription, then I would recommend using PDFtoMusic Pro. This requires an extra step: - Read the MIDI file into your MIDI notation transcription program - Print a PDF file of the score that results - Use PDFtoMusic Pro to convert the PDF into a MusicXML file - Read the MusicXML file into Finale PDFtoMusic Pro is availabe for download and purchase from: http://store.recordare.com/pdftomusicpro.html Obviously neither of these approaches are as good or as simple as having better MIDI transcription integrated into Finale. But if you are trying to get better MIDI to Finale results right now, both products are worth checking out. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Dennis's example (was Sibelius)
Hi Dennis, Do the flute and violin parts have to have different sets of measures on each system, or can you make them the same between parts (even though that means extra space at the end of the flute part)? As it is now, they are the same for the first two systems but then they start to diverge. I don't know how you are doing this now, but if the measure layout could be the same between the two parts, I think you could do the right hand side by using a series of 6 overlapping 2-staff optimized systems. The left hand side would be its own separate 16-staff system, which it probably already is at this point. This would probably get the playback correct without the after-the-fact editing, and might help get part extraction to work. Thanks for sharing this! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: OT-Please help with new computer setup-THANKS
Hi Bob, Enjoy your new iMac! I am no expert on Mac setup, but I can help with the Windows question. I wouldn't worry about partioning the internal drive to use Windows with Boot Camp. Instead, get Parallels Desktop and run your Windows programs from there. I have had great success with this on my MacBook Pro. VMware just came out with their Fusion program which works similarly to Parallels, so that is probably another good alternative. The exception to this advice would be if you are using a Windows audio (not notation) program. Good luck, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: OT-Please help with new computer setup-THANKS
Hi Eric, > If someone wants to boot using Boot Camp, Boot Camp > needs to be on the main hard drive, and boot camp > DOES repartition the drive. I know that Boot Camp repartitions the drive. What I was trying to say is that unless you are running something like a Windows audio program, it is usually a better choice to run Parallels or Fusion than to use Boot Camp. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RIP Herb Pomeroy
We have lost so many great musicians this year. Herb Pomeroy passed away last Saturday. Besides being a great trumpet player and bandleader, he was a tremendous jazz educator, both at Berklee and MIT. The Boston Globe story is at: http://tinyurl.com/2ch3kx I was lucky enough to play in the MIT Festival Jazz Ensemble under Herb's direction for 4 years. I'll always cherish those memories, and the memories of hearing his fantastic 70's-80's band playing at the Scotch and Sirloin in Boston. Rest in peace, Herb. Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: OT digital archiving
Hi jef and Dennis, One of the motivations for creating MusicXML was to establish an archival-quality electronic format for common Western music notation (CWMN). It is a text-based and semantics-based format, which are essential starting points. But then the software has to evolve to fully capture what is in the originals, and to have a widespread ability to read the resulting files. We have made a lot of progress in this area. The MusicXML 1.1 export built into Finale 2008 captures the great majority of both the content and the formatting of the Finale original file format. The MusicXML 2.0 export included with Dolet 4 for Finale captures even more of the original file content, including graphics. This is far better than the previous ETF solution for archiving because the data is far more universally usable than ETF files ever were. There are over 50 applications that can read MusicXML files now (and another 30 that can write MusicXML without reading it, such as music scanners and converters from old formats). One of Recordare's side projects is to set up facilities to be able to recover scores from older music programs and make them usable with today's programs. The PDFtoMusic Pro program is a big help here, and lets us convert from any program that can run on Windows, Mac OS X, or Mac OS 9. We're trying to get a Mac OS 7 machine up and running for some of the older Mac programs that can't run on OS 9. (If anybody local to the San Francisco Bay area can help with that, please contact me off-list.) DOS programs like Music Printer Plus are still a problem and will require writing special-purpose converters. We probably have the technical ability to do that now for MPP, if somebody can provide the funding. I will be speaking at a conference in Paderborn, Germany in December on "Digital Editing Between Experiment and Standardization." The main focus there is on preparing electronic critical editions, and one of the points I will try to make is the importance of the archival quality of the digital representation. There's more information on the conference at: http://www.edirom.de/index.php?id=28&L=1 That just covers CMWN scores. Electroacoustic music like you both are involved in is of course even more complex. But the progress in digital archiving of CWMN scores is at least a good starting point. MusicXML 2.0 has more multi-media support, but it involves using a binary file wrapper format (zip-based, so it's common, but still binary) for the mix of binary and text data. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Wishlist for Finale 2009
Hi Kurt, When you talk about compatibility across programs, this is an area where Finale is ahead of Sibelius, not vice versa. Finale 2008 saves MusicXML files that can be read by 50 other programs, including the 2007 versions of SongWriter, PrintMusic, Allegro, and Finale, along with Sibelius 4 and 5. It can read MusicXML files produced by another 50 programs (about 30 of those programs both read and write the MusicXML format). For more information about all the programs that support MusicXML, see: http://www.recordare.com/xml/software.html These files can be opened on Windows, Macs, and Linux systems. I bet there are people working on the PocketPC and cellular phone too, but I don't think we are quite there yet. Sibelius can read MusicXML files, but to write them so that Finale can read them, you need our Dolet for Sibelius plug-in: http://store.recordare.com/dolet3sib.html You can watch our YouTube video that demonstrates going from Sibelius to Finale at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU61MAuBDtE The video show Finale 2007 and Sibelius 4, but it works the same with Finale 2008 and Sibelius 5. If you need really accurate interchange with older versions of Finale (back to 2000 on Windows, 2004 on PPC Mac OS X, and 2007 on Intel Mac), then you can use our Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4fin.html Music notation files have never been so compatible between programs with so little data loss. Going from Finale 2008 to 2007 now preserves far more formatting than 2007 to 2006 did. Finale was the first major notation program to adopt the MusicXML format with the Windows version of Finale 2003, and has been a leader in supporting it ever since. Please give these features a try, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how much you can share sheet music files between people who use different applications. Sincerely, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: Wishlist for Finale 2009
Hi Kurt, > Say, I want to export a choir and bigband score including > lyrics, chords, articulations, sounds, repetitions like > d. s. al coda, repetitions with 2nd endings, (linked > parts (?))... What will I get? If you're going back to Finale 2004 or later, it should save all of that information except for the changes in linked parts. What you will lose going back to earlier Finale versions are mainly the precise formatting details such as stem height, measure width, and note positioning. These are exported to the MusicXML file, but the limitations of the Finale PDK make it difficult to re-import them. If these details matter to you, please contact MakeMusic and let them know. There are some other Finale features that are not yet supported in MusicXML import and export. These are described in more detail at: http://www.recordare.com/finale/v4readme-win.html#Limits The Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in comes with a 30-day free trial so you can try it before you buy it. Other programs like Sibelius have less complete MusicXML import, but you should still get all this musical material transferred (except for percussion map details in a bigband score). Similarly, all this musical material should transfer from Sibelius to Finale, but most formatting details will be lost. This is because Sibelius's plug-in development environment is not as complete as Finale's. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Converting from Sibelius to Finale
Hi Dennis, Kim, and Johannes, Wow, lots of MusicXML discussion and questions. Here are some responses: > Has anyone tried converting Sibelius 4 files to Finale > with the Dolet 3 plug-in? There is no demo version, so I'm > wondering how good the conversion is. We have put up a video on YouTube to give an idea of the conversion quality. It is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU61MAuBDtE Dolet 3 for Sibelius is limited in what it can export because the Sibelius plug-in development environment is much less complete than Finale's. Exact formatting is one key thing that Dolet 3 for Sibelius cannot do that Dolet 4 for Finale can. An overview of what is not supported is at: http://www.recordare.com/sibelius/v3readme.html#Limits > What happens to the figured bass? Figured bass is not supported in either Dolet plug-in, though it is supported in the MusicXML format. To the best of my knowledge, there is no standard way to do this in Finale with good quality without using third-party fonts. If somebody wants to contract us to add figured bass support to the Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in for specific third-party fonts, please contact me off-list. > Can Finale 2007 or 2008 actually "open" XML files with this plug-in? Yes, the File > MusicXML > Import... opens a new document (in 2006 too). There is no "lengthy process" involved. > you lose a lot of information: page size, margins, > reduction, layout, etc., You don't lose page size, margins, and overall reduction in 2008 (though system reductions current get converted into page reductions). If you use Dolet 4 for Finale you also don't lose things like line width settings. MusicXML is now up to version 2.0, and Finale 2008 reads 2.0 files and writes 1.1 files. MusicXML 1.0 did have formatting limitations that have disappeared with Finale 2008. > The only thing that has to happen is that MusicXML becomes so > sophisticated that it can display a score completely accurately, > including layout, text, figured bass etc. MusicXML and Dolet 4 for Finale software is already very close to this, aside from the lack of figured bass support in the Finale software. Try exporting a Finale 2008 to MusicXML and re-importing the MusicXML file to get a sense for the current state of things. Current limitations are summarized at: http://www.recordare.com/finale/v4readme-win.html#Limits If you find other problems, please let us know. E-mailing sample Finale and PDF files to us off-list is a big help in getting things fixed. > Ideally there should also be a MusicXML display > application, which can print, play, and display music files. That too is becoming available, though for commercial sheet music sales only: http://www.musicrain.com/ Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Converting Noteworthy to Finale
Hello Christopher, > One of our problems so far is that when he creates a project in > Noteworthy (then brings it to me when he realised that THIS one needs > the extra power of Finale), there is no easy way to get it into > Finale. MIDI file transcription leaves out lyrics, which takes me > twice as long as wordless music to enter anyway, so that doesn't give > me much of a time savings at all. So far I have started from scratch > on every project. Try using NWC2XML to convert the Noteworthy file into MusicXML, and then read the MusicXML file into Finale. It should work much better than MIDI, though I have not yet tried the program myself. It's available from: http://www.geocities.com/juria90/nwc.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Bill Duncan's Templates and Sibelius
Hi Leigh and Darcy, The problem is in the MusicXML export from Finale, not the MusicXML import into Sibelius. Our Dolet 4 plug-in does not understand Bill Duncan's fonts, so the MusicXML that is saved from Finale does not represent the chord symbols correctly. There is nothing that Sibelius could do about it. The reason for this is that chord fonts, like music fonts, are not standardized. You have to build in the mapping from the Windows / Mac native characters to the chord symbol definition. Dolet 4 for Finale does this for Finale's built in chord font, but not for Bill Duncan's fonts. Nobody has asked us for this support before, but we could add this to a maintenance release of our Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in. If we can get 10 more Dolet 4 orders by adding this feature, that would make it cost-effective for us. Note that maintenance updates are free for people who have already purchased the Dolet 4 plug-in. Please contact me off-list for more details if you are interested in having us add this feature to Dolet 4 for Finale. A sample file that demonstrates your use of the font would also be very helpful - we will of course keep such files confidential. We have Bill's Finale Productivity Kit here; it's just the examples of using it that we need in order to make sure we add this feature correctly. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Finale '08
Hi Randolph, > I don't know first hand how well Sibelius handles Unicode. > Their web site says yes, but Michael Good says no. I think you must have misunderstood something that I said or wrote. I apologize for any confusion there. Sibelius 5 has native Unicode support built-in and it works great. This has been true for many versions now. As far as I know, Sibelius 5 does not yet fully support bi-directional text. Please correct me if that is based on old information and is no longer true. XML is based on Unicode, so our Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in has to go through many steps to do the translation back and forth between native character sets and the Unicode needed for MusicXML files. All of that is unnecessary in our Dolet 3 for Sibelius plug-in because of Sibelius's built-in Unicode support. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Sibelius 5.1 adds MusicXML 2.0 import
Given the recent Finale <-> Sibelius discussion, I thought people might want to know that the new Sibelius 5.1 update announced today includes support for importing MusicXML 2.0 files. Since Sibelius 5.0 supported only a few MusicXML 1.1 features, this results in much better transfer from Finale to Sibelius than was previously possible. If you are using Finale 2008 you can take advantage of most of these improvements right away. If you are using an earlier version of Finale, or if you have graphics in your score that you want to transfer to Sibelius, then you will get much better results using our Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in to create the MusicXML file. This plug-in is available from: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4fin.html If you transfering graphics from your Finale file, note that they need to be linked rather than embedded. You will want to export files with graphics as a compressed MusicXML 2.0 (.mxl) file, so that the graphics stay with the score in one self-contained file. Sibelius 5.1 appears to also offer some nice improvements in the ManuScript plug-in language that should allow better transfers from Sibelius to Finale in the future. In terms of saving your music into an open format, Finale still works much better than Sibelius. There is still a lot of score information that our Dolet for Sibelius plug-in cannot access for export to MusicXML files. There are very few such restrictions within Finale (embedded graphics is one of them). But the level of interchange between the two programs is constantly getting better, in both directions. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius 5.1 adds MusicXML 2.0 import
Hi Dennis, > Does this mean that with Finale 2008 the Dolet 4 plug-in > is not necessary to convert to Sibelius? I don't quite > understand... Finale 2008 saves in MusicXML 1.1 format, so you can take advantage of most of the Sibelius 5.1 improvements in MusicXML import without any additional software. Finale 2007 and earlier save in MusicXML 1.0 format, which is pretty much the feature set that Sibelius 5.0 was already supporting. So you need Dolet 4 for Finale to take advantage of the Sibelius 5.1 improvements when exporting from these earlier Finale versions. The Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in will always give the best results overall. It should be a very noticeable difference for users of 2007 and earlier. For 2008 users, you will mainly notice the difference in page-attached text and graphics support. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius 5.1 adds MusicXML 2.0 import
Hi Dennis, > And what does one need to get the best conversions from > Sibelius to Finale? The Sibelius Dolet? Or both? You definitely need the Dolet 3 for Sibelius plug-in, as Sibelius 5.1 does not write MusicXML files itself. The other alternative would be MIDI. We have a video demonstrating the difference between the MusicXML and MIDI transfer at: http://www.recordare.com/sibelius/video/dolet3sib.html (high-resolution) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU61MAuBDtE (low-resolution) On the Finale side, the story is similar to export. You always get the best results from Dolet 4 for Finale, but whether it is worth the cost or not depends on the version of Finale you are using, whether you need the batch features, and the value of your time. The video is made using the built-in MusicXML import in Finale 2007. With each earlier version, Dolet 4 for Finale gives better results than what is built into Finale. You can download it for a 30-day free trial to see if the improvements are worth the money for your needs. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: opening a notepad 2005 file in 2003
Hi Aaron, > I currently need to open my only surviving notepad 2005 score > in Finale 2003. Every time I try this I get an "incompatible > version" notice. Is there some trick to doing this? Recordare offers file translation services for this type of thing: http://www.recordare.com/xml/translation.html You may lose some formatting going from 2005 to 2003. But since the original file was created in Notepad, it should be fine. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: Saving Finale file in XML format
Dear Dr. Weinstangel, > I went for a search and... lo and behold, among the Plug-Ins there was MusicXML Export Lite. Did this work OK for you? The MusicXML export in Finale 2005 is quite old and does not preserve much of the score's formatting. If you need formatting information transferred to Sibelius, you will get better results by using the Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in together with Finale 2005, or by upgrading to Finale 2008 with its improved MusicXML export features. The Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in is available for a 30-day free trial from: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4fin.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Text blocks to measure expressions
Hi Darcy, > Is there any plugin that will convert all measure-attached > text blocks to measure-attached text expressions? This will happen if you export the file to MusicXML and then re-import it. The resulting text expressions will all be assigned to this staff only, not to a staff list, which may or may not be what you are looking for. There might also be some other formatting issues that make this impractical. But it seems worth a try. People used measure-attached text blocks prior to Finale 2004 to get multiple fonts, font styles, etc. into a single expression with something easier to use than a shape expression. It's common for people to carry over a technique they know rather than learn a new one when the old technique works fine for their needs. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Dolet for Finale MusicXML update
Recordare has just released version 4.2 of our Dolet for Finale plug-in, available from: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4fin.html This plug-in reads and writes MusicXML files from Finale 2000 and later with Windows, Finale 2004 and later with PowerPC Macs, and Finale 2008 and later with Intel Macs. As requested on this list, we have added support for the ChordSuf font in Bill Duncan's Finale Productivity Kit. Chord symbols using this font can now be exported correctly. We have also added support for the November and NovemberExtra fonts. Locked systems are also exported more accurately for better import into Sibelius and other applications. Tempos created from the tempo tool are now being exported as well. The font support is in its first stages as we do not have a lot of test material that uses these fonts. Please let us know if you find problems with the translations so we can fix them in the future. We are busy expanding our third-party Finale font support. We are very interested in your requests for additional fonts that you would like to see supported in future versions of the Dolet plug-in. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: CONVERTING Sib to Fin
Hi Kim, As several people have mentioned, the most accurate way to transfer from Sibelius to Finale is to use the Dolet 3 for Sibelius plug-in to create a MusicXML file that Finale can read. The direct link is: http://store.recordare.com/dolet3sib.html A video that demonstrates the difference between using MusicXML and MIDI to transfer the files is available at: http://www.recordare.com/sibelius/video/dolet3sib.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: CONVERTING Sib to Fin
Hi George, > Is it possible to do it the other way round? Finale to Sibelius? Sure. Use MusicXML | Export on Finale's File menu to export the MusicXML file, and use the Open command on Sibelius's File menu to open the MusicXML file. Unlike Sibelius, Finale already has MusicXML export built-in. Our Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in does offer additional features for more accurate translations to Sibelius. More information is available at: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4fin.html Sibelius added MusicXML import in version 4, and dramatically improved it in version 5.1. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: word extensions over rests
Hi Dennis, > Perhaps I should specify that I don't use the "smart" variety of word extensions. I am pretty sure that this is the main source of your problem. One of the main features of smart word extensions is to support word extensions over system breaks, which the old-fashioned word extensions cannot do. I would suggest using smart word extensions and editing them in Scroll View (if necessary) as Christopher suggested. This will work with smart word extensions, but not with the old-fashioned word extensions. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] error message on TIFF insert-- any way to work around?
Hi Dennis, > I've never had that happen, but Finale does not delete graphics once > embedded in a file (at least through version 2007). The files bulk up, > no matter what graphics are used. This was fixed in Finale 2008a. From the 2008a readme file: "File size no longer increases after adding then deleting embedded graphics." Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Dolet 4.3 for Finale plug-in for MusicXML now available
Recordare has released version 4.3 of our Dolet for Finale plug-in for enhanced export and import of MusicXML files. This version adds several new features: - Two-note tremolos are now supported. - Blank pages are now imported. - Page breaks are now imported. - The Toccata font is now supported. - The swing tempo markings included in Finale's default documents are now supported. - The "Left-Align Chords" option is now supported. - Turning off the "Display rests in empty measure" staff attribute is now supported during export. - Some support has been added for the "Break barlines between staves" staff attribute during export. - Stem position is now exported for cross-staff notes. - More positioning data is exported from note-attached expressions. - Vertical positioning is now exported for crescendo and diminuendo wedges that appear in empty measures. Version 4.3 also fixes several problems, including issues with exporting pull-offs, importing from SmartScore X, and importing lyric word extensions. This is a free update for Dolet 4 for Finale customers. A 30-day free trial is available for new users. The plug-in can be downloaded and ordered from: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4fin.html Dolet 4.3 for Finale supports Finale 2000-2008 on Windows, Finale 2004-2008 on PPC Macs, and Finale 2007-2008 on Intel Macs. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: error message on TIFF insert-- any way to work around?
Hi Dennis, > Do you know if deleted graphics "bulk" is deleted by importing > the files into 2008a and running a data check? Or are some of > my 2007 files forever 50-80MB each? I just tested this in 2008a on Windows with a 2007 file with a deleted 3MB embedded graphic. Doing a data check in 2008a did indeed get rid of that extraneous data. So 2008a can get rid of that graphics bulk that earlier versions added. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius to Finale
Hi Eric, As Richard and David have mentioned, MusicXML is the most accurate way to transfer files between Finale and Sibelius. If you have Sibelius as well as Finale, you can use the Dolet 3 for Sibelius plug-in yourself. Otherwise, the person with the Sibelius file will need to be the one to use it. You use the plug-in to export a MusicXML file from Sibelius that Finale can then open. For the most accurate results, use the Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in to open the MusicXML file, but Finale 2008's built-in MusicXML import does a good job as well. There is a video that demonstrates this process in comparison to MIDI files at: http://www.recordare.com/sibelius/video/dolet3sib.html The plug-in is available for purchase at: http://store.recordare.com/dolet3sib.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] ISMIR 2008 and music databases
Since musical databases in various forms have been a lively topic of discussion, I thought some list members might be interested in an upcoming conference. The Ninth International Conference on Music Information Retrieval will be held in Philadelphia on September 14 to 18. More information is available on the conference web site at: http://ismir2008.ismir.net/ Most of the talks tend to deal with retrieval from audio files, but there are also several sessions involving symbolic / notation formats like MIDI, MusicXML, and Finale. One presentation will be dealing with using XQuery to retrieve information from MusicXML files created with Finale, Sibelius, or other programs. I will be presenting a demonstration on "Using MusicXML 2.0 to Create Symbolic Music Data Sets" on Thursday the 18th. This will show the latest versions of our Dolet 4 for Finale and Dolet 4 for Sibelius plug-ins, together with PDFtoMusic Pro. People who are deeply interested in both music and databases should find this a fascinating conference! -- Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius to Finale 2007
MusicXML transfer works like MIDI transfer between programs, but is much more accurate for notation. You save a MusicXML from one program, and then read the MusicXML file in another program. For instance, Finale will not read a Sibelius file directly. Instead, Finale 2007 will read a MusicXML file exported from Sibelius. The composer using Sibelius will need to have the Dolet for Sibelius plug-in to export the MusicXML file. The latest version for Sibelius 5 is available at: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4sib.html MusicXML import into Finale has improved a lot since Finale 2007. While you can use Finale 2007's built-in MusicXML import, you will get the best results using the Dolet 4 for Finale plug-in, available at: http://store.recordare.com/dolet4fin.html Alternatively, Recordare can do the translations from Sibelius to Finale files for you. You can request a quote using the online form at: http://www.recordare.com/xml/translation.html Sincerely, Michael Good Recordare LLC ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Inverted turn
Hi Henry, > Anyone know how to obtain one? There's an inverted turn in the NovemberExtra font, part of the November font set: http://www.klemm-music.de/november/index_e.htm Other fonts must have this as well. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Desktop (Was: [Finale] Splash screen)
Hi Allen, Phil, and John, As Phil mentioned, the Xerox Star was the first commercial product using many of the desktop concepts. But the Xerox Alto research system explored some of these (more the WYSIWYG than the desktop) years before. And many of these ideas were originally shown by Doug Englebart from SRI at the "Mother of All Demos" in December 1968: http://www.sri.com/engelbart-event.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com (former Alto and Star user) -Original Message- From: Allen Fisher Subject: Re: Desktop (Was: [Finale] Splash screen) To: Message-ID: <2b3c03fe-e64d-4b8c-b71f-3f047674e...@fisherartandtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format=flowed Didn't OS/2 have one too? or did Star predate that? On Feb 11, 2009, at 8:04 AM, Phil Daley wrote: > At 2/10/2009 09:38 PM, John Howell wrote: > > >If I remember correctly, the "desktop" concept or analogy (which is > >clearly what David meant) was original with Apple, and was stolen by > >Microsoft, which unaccountably won the subsequent lawsuit. So by the > >time Windoze came along that was all ancient history. > > Nope, they both stole it from Xerox Star. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Another question about a possibly-fixed Finale bug
A couple things from this Automatic Update Layout discussion: 1) Plug-ins can turn the various automatic layout settings on and off. If you see automatic layout being switched out from under you, see if you can relate this to running a specific plug-in. If so, please report the problem to MakeMusic and/or the plug-in developer. 2) Robert, I had a question regarding your point about plug-ins that needs to determine page layout info not working reliably if AUL is on. Can't your plug-in just do an update layout call first in order to set the page and system information that you need? This is related to Johannes's point that Finale does not completely store page and system layout in the file, but computes them dynamically from information in the file. Many other types of Finale formatting work this way, such as stem direction. Other notation programs work in a similar way in terms of computing formatting information dynamically. This is one reason why our MusicXML translation programs for Finale and Sibelius need to run as plug-ins rather than standalone programs. Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Another question about a possibly-fixed Finale bug
Hi Robert, Thanks for the explanation about the Beam Over Barlines plug-in. But in that case, as Johannes asked, why not just turn Automatic Update Layout off from within the plug-in? You can then do a manual update layout, do the plug-in changes, run further manual update layouts if needed, then restore the original AUL settings when done. If this won't work I'd like to know what I'm missing, since it will probably come in handy some time in the future! Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
