RE: pinto Fjords
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Apropos crossing - when people "in the know" see Kai, they almost always remark that he "must have some arab blood in him". According to them, some Fjords - don`t ask me where or when - were crossed with fullbloods in order to make them more graceful and athletic. In Kai`s case this would seem be true - he is slim and trim and doesn`t seem to put on weight - he is just right. His head is very sleek - it could be result of having some arab blood in his veins. I mentioned this once to someone else on this list, who was appalled - as I actually was myself when I first heard the idea. Evidently this widespread "fact" (in Europe) isn`t known in the States. But maybe it is just a rumor because breeders I have spoken to say that the "lighter" "Norweger" is the goal achieved by precise breeding standards. According to Kai`s papers, he is 100 % Fjord. (I have seen pictures here of Fjords breed with Haflingers and Islanders and Quarter Horses - they sure look strange !) Kristine > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Montag, 8. Februar 1999 17:02 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: pinto Fjords > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Hi. I have seen several fjords crossed with other breeds including > thoroughbreds and paints and what happens as far as I could see is you > lose > the best qualities of both breeds. You get a hot or untractable fjord with > compromised conformation and you lose the qualities that the TB is > revered > for. Not a pretty picture and not good for any breed as far as I can see. > Anne > Appleby
RE: The North American Gjest Challenge
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yeah, that sounds right, kid. > -Original Message- > From: saskia schoofs [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 1999 16:32 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: The North American Gjest Challenge > > This message is from: "saskia schoofs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > following my dictionary, a mile is 1.609 KM > > Saskia > > -- > >From: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: Re: Re: The North American Gjest Challenge > >Date: don, 4 feb 1999 14:41 > > > > > This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Check that - I am sure that the mile is even greater than 1.2 KM. > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 1999 14:22 > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: RE: Re: Re: The North American Gjest Challenge > >> > >> This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >> At 08:15 AM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > >> >This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > >> >A mile is a greater distance than a kilometer. 1 Mile equals roughly 2 > >> >Kilometers. > >> >If the pacer trots the mile in 1.41, then he/she trots approximately 2 > KM > >> at > >> >that speed as well - > >> >the Standardbred needs about 1.48. At least that is how I understood > it > >> :o) > >> > > >> > >> Well that is a close approximation. There are actually 1.2 km per > mile. > >> When they are measuring in hundredths of a minute I think the .2 is > pretty > >> important. > >> > >> > >> > >> === > >> > >> Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry > >> Mike May, Registrar > >> Voice 716-872-4114 > >> FAX 716-787-0497 > >> > >> http://www.nfhr.com > >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Re: The North American Gjest Challenge
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Check that - I am sure that the mile is even greater than 1.2 KM. > -Original Message- > From: Mike May, Registrar NFHR [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 1999 14:22 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Re: Re: The North American Gjest Challenge > > This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > At 08:15 AM 2/4/99 -0500, you wrote: > >This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >A mile is a greater distance than a kilometer. 1 Mile equals roughly 2 > >Kilometers. > >If the pacer trots the mile in 1.41, then he/she trots approximately 2 KM > at > >that speed as well - > >the Standardbred needs about 1.48. At least that is how I understood it > :o) > > > > Well that is a close approximation. There are actually 1.2 km per mile. > When they are measuring in hundredths of a minute I think the .2 is pretty > important. > > > > === > > Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry > Mike May, Registrar > Voice 716-872-4114 > FAX 716-787-0497 > > http://www.nfhr.com > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re: Re: The North American Gjest Challenge
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A mile is a greater distance than a kilometer. 1 Mile equals roughly 2 Kilometers. If the pacer trots the mile in 1.41, then he/she trots approximately 2 KM at that speed as well - the Standardbred needs about 1.48. At least that is how I understood it :o) Kristine in Frankfurt > -Original Message- > From: Mike May [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 4. Februar 1999 13:45 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Re: Re: The North American Gjest Challenge > > This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > At 05:34 PM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: > >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Just thought you might be interested: The record for the MILE by a STBRD > pacer > >is 1.41 and for a STBRD trotter is 1.48. > > > So keeping Apples - Apples or km to km's then my calculator shows that the > 1.41 for the MILE is really .846 for the km. And 1.48 = .888 for the km. > >
RE: Fjord stamina
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The dialog on Fjord stamina at first surpised me: All of the German Fjords I
have had contact with
are real movers. Funny thing, they "enjoy" a reputation to the opposite
effect. In support of one
of Carole`s comments, I too, have often heard lines about Fjords being lazy,
about Fjords being
bossy about Fjords not being fit for dressage. As Carole says, some are and
some aren`t. Funny
how other breeds aren`t picked on as much as the smart and saavy Fjord with
personality
plus and, in my opinion, highest energy and top ability.
My pony, Kai (coming on 5 yrs), is often turned out with Monty (going on 4).
Kai tends to pick on those
who are smaller than he is and gives poor Monty a run for his money every
time they are out together.
At the end of the workout, which usually lasts about an hour, Monty is
inevitably soaking wet and Kai is
as fresh as a daisy, wondering when round 2 is about to begin. I have never
witnessed this myself -
the barn owner, Günter, always fills me in. He is continuously baffled at
Kai's energy and generally
fit condition. Especially since he only "survives" on normal hay, a little
grass and a handfull of goodies
that I give him at night.
Every year they hold what is known as the "Fjord Cup" not far from where we
live - so I never miss it.
Only Fjords and Fjord people (the latter is unfortunate). These horses are
always constantly on the go -
as most of them come from further away and want to get their money`s worth.
Many contenders sign up
for every possible event - from dressage E ("easy") to dressage A (Anfaenger
= "Beginner")
to jumping on the flat to jumping in the woods over trees and other
"natural" obstacles - over a two-day period.
These horses simply never seem to tire and can do it all. Not only that, but
you very rarely see a horse that gets upset, bucks, lifts or otherwise gets
out of control. It is astounding in itself - let alone when you compare them
to other breeds. Even the many stallions participating are well-behaved and
strictly disciplined. But all of them appear to me to be non-stop and
enjoying every minute of it.
Last year Kai participated in the category for 4 & 5 year old Fjords at the
Cup (younger ones are forbidden to compete). I had Sonja ride him. She
drilled for an hour and then went into the "examination". Kai was starting
to get warmed up ! Keep in
mind that I do not ride him like crazy and that, when I do, we rarely go in
for lots of cantering exercises but do lots and
lots of turns, circles & Shoulder-in at the WALK and sometimes the trot.
But he "performed" wonderfully, smoothly, willingly and seemed to enjoy
himself throughout the whole procedure. I am sure
I could have done more with him and he would have done just fine.
I had another gal ride him once when I could not get to the barn. It was a
nice day and she decided to go for a ride with
Iris. She (Steffi) said they were on the trails for over an hour, did a
little trotting and then came back. She said that Kai just seemed to be
"getting into it" (he starts snorting frequently) when they returned, so she
decided to work with him a little on the flat. Since I have had him, Kai has
always impressed me as a mover, but one who needs time to get loosened up
before he REALLY gets down to business.
>From that point on he seems to be tireless - he IS tireless - but by no
means hectic - until, of course, the dreaded canter is introduced ... but
that is another story.
Kristine from FfM - where the sun has been shining for days now and it`s
getting warmer and brighter as we "speak" !
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 1999 22:58
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Fjord stamina
>
>
RE: Cantering
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I missed the first part of the "conversation". But if it is a young horse, he will naturally be unbalanced. Perhaps physical limitations or pain are compounding his difficulties with the highest gear. If I were you I would of course try to have any corporeal ailments eliminated and then start anew with training - slow and sure and perhaps even with a bit-LESS sidepull. There is a western trainer here in Germany - Claus Penquitt - who operates under the adage that green/young horses should first be required to canter when they`ve mastered shoulder-in and -fore, travers etc.. He says that until they have reached that point their hindquarters are too "lame" and their balance too lacking - to the extent that the canter can become an allround fiasco for everybody. He says, "wait and you will be rewarded" - I think he is right. Of course, I read him too late. We pushed Kai and insisted he canter, whether he was comfortable with it or not - whether he flipped out or not - whether we were sort of scared ourselves or not. We thought: hey, he`s a horse, he can galopp over the fields, why can`t he galopp over the sandy arena ? But he had obvious difficulty - not with pain, but with his unbalanced body (head to the left was typical). He became frustrated with himself and with us for compelling him to do the (then and for him) "impossible". This of course, lead to further "problems" when I rode him out alone. Only after alot of strict, strenuous and sweaty ground work as well as riding sessions with a time-hardened "Amazona" did Kai learn to accept the canter. But, if I had to do it all over again, I would follow Penquitt`s advice. No use pushing the horse around - that can backfire and he will always be alot stronger and quicker than you are - and potentially very dangerous - especially when they`ve lost their respect for you. If I were you I would relax (I know it`s hard) and work at the walk and the trot. Try to get him to "take the bit" at these stages. Until then his canter will be less than desirable, I can guarantee you that. When your pony excels on the circle at the trot, then I would accelerate, but not necessarily on the circle - that is too difficult and demands perhaps more collection than a young horse can muster at first, forcing him to drop back into the trot. The main thing is patience and working in small doses. Sure, a side-pull is a good device - I bought one here (from the Continental Saddle Company) and the good thing about it is that it is bit-less. We practice shoulder-in and forehand turns with it - the aids are much more distinct for Kai without any mouth contact whatsoever. I would never use it, though, in order to energetically pull his head around to the side ! If the horse is unbalanced, you will only throw him off more by forcing the issue. I can imagine that he would just get more upset and pull the other way - or even resort to throwing you off. Those are just my 2 cents - earned through hard experiences brought on by my impatience to "get going" and get my horse in gear. But it`s only 2 cents and very little for all the hard work we put into retraining him in an effort to make up for our mistakes - and haste. Kristine in Frankfurt am Main > -Original Message- > From: Mary Thurman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 19. Januar 1999 04:26 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Cantering > > This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >At first it sounded a little touchy feely to me, but my > > friend trains a LOT of horses, and for the little bit of $$$ it > costs to > > find/correct the problem, you save a lot of time and trouble trying > to train a > > horse that is in pain. > > I must add here that we also thought it was a little "touchy feely" > sounding at first. Until we tried it on one of our horses that was in > training. He was a three-year-old with about 30 days on him. He > began to have trouble picking up the canter, carried his hind legs > funny and couldn't keep in the canter. When the trainer would push on > the top of his croup near the spine with his fingers, the horse would > "drop" his hindquarters or act uncomfortable. An equine chiropractor > regularly works on horses for this trainer, so he checked the horse > out, found the problem, corrected it - and "presto", no more problems. > It truly works that fast - the horse has no more pain. Although he > may have sore muscles for a few days afterwards, due to having used > his body "wrong" for a long time. We usually give them a day or so > off aft
RE: coughs
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello, Steve - Thanks for your concern ! I am always a little apprehensive when it comes to pain. - I hate it and animals don`t understand it. My vett, too, said that the tracheal wash was very unpleasant for the animals and hesitated to do one until he was sure that the inhalation exercises were definitely not helping. He did say that he would sedate Kai - but still ... He will come again on Thursday or Friday, maybe by then the cough will be gone ! Til then I am going to get a roll of All-spann - a "dust-free" and non-allergenic type of bedding. I hope that will help some. Kind Regards from Kristine in Frankfurt > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sonntag, 17. Januar 1999 06:58 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: coughs > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steven A White) > > Kristine, > > You sounded a little apprehensive about having a tracheal wash done. > It's really an easy procedure and would lead to an accurate diagnosis and > thus a quicker recovery for your horse. I suppose it sounds a lot worse > than it actually is, and with a little sedation the horses tolerate it > well. > > How are things going? Is the cough improving? > > -Steve > > Steve & Amy White > Waterloo, NE, USA
RE: coughs
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes ! That is it, Peg. It is terribly worrisome when an animal is ailing. When Kai had a high fever and hung his head down to the straw I thought that was it. What a pitiful sight ! Poor Kaichen, so untypical for him. If the inhaling does indeed not help, the vet wants to do an "endoscopy" or perhaps a Trachial Wash as Steve mentioned in his mail. But I am hoping it won`t go that far. Thanks for your encouragement ! Kristine (Ha! I am constantly kissing my baby, too. But I just can`t help it - he`s too cute :o) ) > -Original Message- > From: Doug Knutsen [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 13. Januar 1999 08:24 > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: coughs > > This message is from: Doug Knutsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > This message is from Peg: > > To Kristine Werner, re: how to treat your horse's cough. > > I'm sure that Dr. Brian Jacobsen will respond with the definitive > excellent > information to help you. Even so, I thought I'd share our experience with > coughing horses. Each of our three Fjords developed a persistant cough at > different times last summer. We weren't sure whether the cause was dust > from the road which blows onto our property, allergies, or exposure to a > mare who has had a chronic cough. Our vet tried a course of anti-biotics > [pill form], which seemed to help, but not cure. > > He decided to take a sample directly from the respiratory system of our > yearling colt. This involved slight sedation [ I don't know how he > manages > to give just enough sedation to keep the horse still on his feet but > almost > asleep, but he does]. Then he inserted a needle just where the front of > the > neck joins the chest and withdrew a sample of fluid. After checking it in > the lab, he knew exactly which antibiotic to administer. The cough > cleared > in a few days, although we finished the course of medication as > prescribed. > > Meanwhile, he did not have us stable any of the horses, but told us not to > exercise them while they still had any sign of the cough. I have lots of > confidence in our vet, even though he threatens to call the SPCA because > we > kiss our Fjords so much He also recommends many natural remedies [for > the horses] and even got me taking Glucosamine. It's great for my > arthritic > knees [too much soccer]. > > I hope some of this is helpful, it's very worrisome to have a sick horse, > and then on top of that, to wonder about whether your Fjord is getting > good > care! > Good luck - Peg Knutsen > > >
coughing
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> First it was Monty, now it`s Kai: they both starting coughing about two weeks ago. Monty was given antibiotics from a can - Kai was administered two shots of penicillin and since then emptied a can of stuff that is supposed to help him get rid of excess phlegm. He appeared to be better last week - but now he is coughing again. The doctor came out yesterday when I was at work - I thought he was going to listen to his lung activity and get back to me - but he gave Kai another shot. I am not so sure this is the right thing. Today I got in touch with a "holistic animal practitioner" - she seemed to have some common sense ideas. Have any of you ever had problems with coughing - how did you cure it ? Another issue at our stall is: should the horse stay in his stall or does he require movement ? The first vet who came said that Kai should have alots of fresh air and be lead so that the mucus would loosen and finally be ejected from the lungs. Other horse owners think I should let Kai "stay in bed" as they put it, since he is "sick". They say he hasn`t gotten better (as Monty has - although Monty has been ridden excessively in my eyes) because I have had him out too often. But he does not have a fever - he is full of energy and wants to move. If I keep him in his "box" for a couple of days on end it will be impossible to lead him - he bucks and kicks already not knowing what to do with all of that built-up energy. Right now I am between treatments - the can of "Ventipulmin" is finished - I am fed up with the vet who gives shots, cashes up real quick and then runs away. I have contacted this holistic Dr. who sounds like she knows what she is doing, but I can hear the raving now by the other owners who are against that type of treatment and suggest I use their vet, who will more than likely prescribe penicillin again. Who knows - maybe that IS the only answer. Has anyone else had a similar experience - or know how coughing is handled most effectively ? I would appreciate your tips or advice. Kristine in Frankfurt am Main
RE: first Fjord
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It finally dawned on me that I was the one who had changed. She knew how to do this stuff all along, but saw no reason to show me until I knew enough to ask for it. That is very interesting - I have experienced the same thing. Whereas pushing your weight around with some horses is the only way to get them to cooperate - the Fjord is actually very sensitive. I did not realize that for a long time - I was a vicitim of the pony-prejudice and went about my business thus. I tried to get Kai "on the bit" while riding and he struggled like crazy against it. One day I rode him in the arena across the street. It was full and I didn`t feel like bringing on additional stress through a tug-of-war with my horse. I just wanted to let him move, let off some steam. He trotted around, I posted and threw away the reins. After a couple of minutes I sat the trot out - still no hands - and Kai rounded his neck of his own accord, as though he were going to take to the bit. He was happy and content and would accelerate or slow down on very slight voice ques. I ride him all the time like that now - steering him with my legs and weight shifts. I recently bought a bitless side-pull - and he loves it. In time, I know he will balance himself out and "go on the bit", even where there is none. Kristine in Frankfurt > -Original Message- > From: Dave McWethy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Samstag, 19. Dezember 1998 16:19 > To: FjordList > Subject: first Fjord > >
RE: (no subject)
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Maureen - there is so much to write ... where to start ? Looking back on only one year of experience with my baby fjord (4 1/2 yrs.), I certainly would do alot of things differently. I think the main thing, though, is to take to slow. I thought in the beginning that everything had to go rush, rush - (I am always in a hurry) - my horse was very green and I wanted him trained and ready to go right away. That was wrong and a mistake. Training takes time, patience, energy ! Thank goodness my good-natured boy is forgiving. Also - don`t push issues. If he doesn`t like - or finds it difficult - to carry out certain chores - like longing - then leave it be for a while and try again later. If it doesn`t work, drop it. I insisted with Kai and that was just plain stupid. In other words - accentuate the positive and do alot of what he or she seems to excell at. That will be more fun for both of you and very rewarding in the end. One thing you should insist on, however, is politeness and teaching it to your horse. Be very consistent and you will save yourself alot of problems, the horse will be more content within himself and have loads more respect for you. Good luck ! Kristine in Frankfurt > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Freitag, 18. Dezember 1998 12:53 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: (no subject) > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I am new to the list and to the Fjord horse. The different happenings > and > places things are happening, Alaska, Minnesota, etc., are wonderful to > read. > > I was wondering though, if anyone could share advice on their first > Fjord, > indispensable tips, things in retrospect that would have been helpful > to know, > finding their Fjord, the beginning > > Keep writing! It is great to read. Any advice would be greatly > appreciated!!! > > Maureen > Rainy Long Island
RE: "Carol's little provocations"
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Carole - I for one at least like your "postings".There is nothing wrong IMHO at least, with a little critical thought and provokation. I don`t know why people are so sensitive generally. I`m wondering of that Viagra business in Europe was not a hoax of some sort. The States came out with the drug and the States is the forerunner where research and development are concerned. I can hardly believe that is true. Be that as is may - it seems clear that if a stallion cannot reproduce, then he should be gelded. Nature knows best - this is a cliche because it is true. There are so many stallions out there - why insist on what is obviously not meant to be ? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Montag, 7. Dezember 1998 14:16 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: "Carol's little provocations" > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) > > > > Good Morning from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia > where > today we woke up to that really warm weather everybody else has had. > > To Cynthia, Yes, my posting about Approval of Viagra for European > stallions was meant to be provocative. The idea was to provoke a > discussion regarding the use of artiificial means (drugs, hormones) to > breed Fjords. The Fjord is a naturual breed, and naturally very strong > reproductively. More so than most. This is a result of the European > Keuring system which stresses reproductive strength. Over the 18 > years > we've been breeding and importing Fjords, I've come to believe that > the > closer I stay to nature, the better the horses are. My "provocative > posting" was meant to promote a discussion along these lines. > > Regards, Carol > > > Carol and Arthur Rivoire > Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II > R.R. 7 Pomquet > Antigonish County > Nova Scotia > B2G 2L4 > 902 386 2304 > http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf >
RE: Mixing it up! Caution in breeding animals...
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> P - I think you`re right about mixing things up. I want my horse to be flexible. Also - you can get your horse to lift his hooves without leaning on him or even touching him. Of course, this is the goal and you have to work on it. In the beginning, check out what he understands. If you have to "lay hands on" - do so. It helps if you say, "hoof" in the process. With Kai, I started with a crop - tapping the back of his leg and saying "hoof". Now he sees me going into "position" and lifts his leg up automatically. If he is distracted, I ask him to pick up his "hoof" and he does. The less pressure you apply, the better. Make him use his noggen ! > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sonntag, 6. Dezember 1998 21:21 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re:Mixing it up! Caution in breeding animals... > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > In a message dated 98-12-06 05:54:35 EST, you write: > >
RE: fjordhorse-digest V98 #265
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I´m more or less a "bystander" here - not a breeder, only have one loveable Fjordpferd to call my own etc.. But I have to say I can understand Carole`s questioning of this term "extravagant" very well. The first thing that came to my mind (as a "layperson", mind you), too, was that the horse with "extravagant" moves was the horse with very good extention (middle trot). If it means a lack of cadence (term ?), though, then the meaning is clear. Otherwise it leaves a loophole for alot of different interpretations. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 3. Dezember 1998 03:04 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #265 > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > this message is from Mike & Joyce Cook, West Church Fjords/Swanton,Oh. > Hi Everyone, I can't sit and read this anymore without responding to > Carol > regarding her not understanding the "extravagant" motion in the trot. > With all > due respect Carol, I believe the explanation was, and I don't want to > post the > whole original response and take up an entire issue of the > digest.any > motion that becomes uncadenced, out of form is considered > "extravagant". What > other explanation is needed? I believe this type of "nitpicking" is > what's > making this whole process of creating and writing the standard not > only time > consuming but almost impossible to do. I mean, does everyone need to > figure > out a way to "beat the system"? Why not put our energies to following > it as > it's written instead of spending the time trying to interpret in a > million > different fashions? I don't mean to single Carol out but c'mon people, > when > does this stop? Let the people write the standard and lets follow it. > I'm done rambling. > Mike & > Joyce Cook > West > Church > Fjords > > Swanton, Oh.
RE: Breeder Evaluators
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ursula is right about the "checks and balances". In Germany, the competition amongst the various breeders is fierce. That is probably the reason why they "blind" judge the young foals - that is, not knowing breeder or stallion. > -Original Message- > From: Ursula Jensen [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 26. November 1998 03:42 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Breeder Evaluators > > This message is from: Ursula Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi List: > > I can understand that some of you are concerned that Breeder > Evaluators may > have a biased viewpoint or possibly favor their own bloodlines etc. > but > consider this. Who else is going to be the most concerned about > maintaining > Breed Standards and especially Breed Types? Will a professional Judge > who > has had the most experience with Quarter Horses , Arabs or Morgan > have > his/her eye trained with those Breeds in mind? Breeder Evaluators > could > provide this balance and vis versa. > The Eval. Comm. did not pull this idea of Breeder Evaluator out of > thin air. > The Norwegian & Dutch Judges and breeds like the Andalusian etc. > all have > Breeder Evaluators. These people have the most interest and the most > to lose > if the Breed standards go awry so why not involve them in the process. > There has been a tremendous amount of consideration and research given > to > the proposed Evaluation Leadership Proposal. A number of checks and > balances > have been put in place to address the aforementioned concerns about > bias. > There will always be a combination of Breeder Evaluators and > Professional > Judge Evaluators at every Evaluation. This hopefully will balance any > perceived biases on either sides. > The Breeder judges will be exposed to a very thorough training program > including a general Judging Certificate , learner Judging, > workshops,clinics > and esposure to hundreds of FJords both here and abroad. The list > goes on. > More importantly, persons interested in becoming Breeder Judges will > be > scrutinized and selected by the BOD and our Senior Evaluators before > their > training begins. If, after all the screening and training a > particular > Breeder Judge is perceived to be biased what's stopping the NFHR from > excluding this person from Evaluating. An extreme measure, yes, but an > option. The ultimate power is in the hands of the BOD, right? > I think we need to have a bit more confidence in ourselves as able and > competent participants in this process. We need to learn from the > masters > and then apply the knowledge to the NOrth AMerican Evaluation Program, > AND > give people a bit of credit for professionalism, competence and > integrity. > It is absolutely imperative that a leadership program for training > Evaluators is in place along with our North AMerican Evaluation > Program. > They go hand in hand. We need a constant but highly selective group of > people going thru this program to ensure that a constant supply of > learner > and senior Evaluators will be available in the future.We need to be > farsighted on this issue. Our present Senior Evaluators are competent > people > with great insight & experiencethey are supportive of this process > and > with the help of our European Masters, this program has the potential > to > stand up to International scrutiny. > Give it some more thought. > > Ursula Jensen > Trinity Fjords. > > P.S. Our son Aaren has just updated our Homepage...stop by to visit > and > check out the pictures of this year's happenings (including the Randem > we > drove at Libby) Be patient in the downloading, it's well worth the > time > spent...Enjoy > If you leave your curser on the picture it will pop up an > explanation...neat,eh? > > http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/ > |---| > | Ursula & Brian Jensen from Trinity Fjords | > | E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
RE: Loosen purse strings, please -
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello Julie - I have not been following this stallion dialog very closely - tell me exactly what you need and I can write the IGF - the "Fjord Club" of Germany for you. On the other hand - you could write to them yourselves - they have opened a new e-mail site through which you can contact them in writing: http://home.t-online.de/home/068581465-0002/igf.htm The first page contains the prompt: Ihre Nachricht an uns - per e-mail. Press that and send your message. I am sure that one of their personnel can speak english - or will at least understand what you are driving at. When you arrive at the site, look for links to the norwegians, french, dutch etc.. - I think they are all represented there. > -Original Message- > From: Julia Will [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 25. November 1998 22:35 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Loosen purse strings, please - > > This message is from: Julia Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >THE RESPONSE FROM NFHR: It's too expensive! It will cost $23,000 > for the > >video, and .20 a word for the book. > > Carol, to clarify, the responses that you receive on this mailing list > are > from NFHR members, and are not an official response from the NFHR, > which > would only come after items are presented to the BOD. I think only a > handful of people have responded to your suggestions, and it appears > to me > that they (and myself) are looking for facts, and a way to make things > happen. (Such as the suggestion I made that you contact Van Bon about > his > book...are you willing to do that?) > > > Jean Gayle has suggested contacting Norway, Holland and Germany (and > Denmark??? ) about the availablility of videos (or slides??) of the > stallions. Maybe Kristine Werner could help here? And Ingvild??? > And > there are a couple of us looking into some other ideas involving help > from > abroad. > > I am happy to serve as the "board liason" for the mailing > list...meaning to > take ideas presented here back to the Board, but please be clear that > I am > not "THE NFHR", just another lover of the breed, NFHR member, and a > volunteer on the Board. > > Have a good Thanksgiving! Julie
RE: Hey! Loosen those purse strings, please -
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Why just "from Norway and Holland" ?? There are excellent stallions in Denmark and Germany as well. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 24. November 1998 16:21 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Hey! Loosen those purse strings, please - > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) > > > > Good Day from Carol at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - > > This message is to Julie Will, VP of the NFHR, and other BOD members > tuned > in. > > Regarding a pictorial image to go with the Fjord Breed Standards. . . > which > are finally printed. Julie says pictures are in Van Bon's book, along > with > valuable information in Dutch, and asks, "Anyone up to translating?" > Everybody should understand Van Bon's book contained the Breed > Standards > way before the NFHR began fourteen years ago. The NFHR had only to > translate. What would it have cost? $200? $300? Whatever! Wasn't it > worth > it? And isn't it something we have a right to expect from the > registry? > It needed to be done, and should have been done. But, that was then, > and > this is now. So, now the NFHR should make arrangements to translate > all or > part of Van Bon's book for the education of No. American breeders. > > The NFHR maintains various bank accounts from checking to CDs. The > average balance from 1996 is $39,000 - $49,000 each two month period. > - > April, 1998, ($49,573). June, 1998 ($45,246). --- A fair amount of > money, > and as a member/owner/breeder, I'd like some of it spent to our > benefit. > > As to Julie's suggestion of - "Wouldn't it be great if we could get > video > footage of some of the "best of the best" from Norway and Holland?" > YES IT > WOULD BE! So how come the Registry hasn't done it? How expensive > would > that be? Send somebody to Holland for one of the Stallion Shows. Do > the > same in Norway.-- Wouldn't that be immeasurably valuable to owners and > breeders? Wouldn't it be a wise investment towards quality breeding > in > North America? -- > > Owners and breeders depend on the NFHR for forward thinking and > forward > action. And if we question how they're doing the job, then we should > say > so. --- > > And if you're thinking, "Why doesn't she put her money where her mouth > is?" > -- I volunteered for the Evaluation Committee. They declined as the > work > was mostly done, and apparently, it is. -- Then I volunteered for > the > Education Committee, and was thanked and told the BOD needed to review > and > approve my application. Is this the way to get things done? It seems > to > me when an interested and experienced person volunteers for a > non-paying > job, most organizations welcome the offer. > > Regards, Carol Rivoire > > > > > Carol and Arthur Rivoire > Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II > R.R. 7 Pomquet > Antigonish County > Nova Scotia > B2G 2L4 > 902 386 2304 > http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf >
RE: horse related accidents
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ann - right on - I think people who say "who cares ? I´m going to die anyway" don`t really believe it`s true and are therefore so careless - what they really seem to mean is "it can`t happen to me". If they are lucky, they feel confirmed in their belief - if not, they regret their decision for a long, long time. > -Original Message- > From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 19. November 1998 16:43 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re:horse related accidents > > This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi, I want to respond to Pat Wolf and others comments on helmets, not > because I am so experienced in horses, but in medicine. Head injuries > > are fairly common, and as Pat said, can mean anything from killing > you, > causing a "vegetable" situation, prolonged hospitalization, head > aches, > and a lot of other, more subtle symptoms such a a person's personality > > changing, usually towards irritability- not nicer! People often say, > "well if i am going to go, I am going to go" or such comments, but the > > thing we should really consider is living on, but having your life > changed forever by one of these conditions. Enough from me. Happy > horsing! > > Ann Restad, PA-C
RE: Oops! More info!
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi -Just to let you know that I know exactly what you mean. I had problems with my Kai from the beginning. In a word - try experimenting with your horse, if you really like him and think the time and effort might be worth your while then it probably will be. Remember - little things mean alot to horses - its all about body language and gestures. With Kai, for example, it suddenly dawned on me to stop in my tracks whenever I noticed that he would begin to turn his head as I approached him (whereas I used to continue the approach and pet him, sulking, that he seemed so indifferent and not knowing why). Now I wait for him to turn back and look at me and take a step towards me before I continue to move toward him. Don`t ask me why he "ducks" - is he shy ? could he not care less ? No idea - but I seem to think he is showing submission - but in order for him to submit, I have to dominate - and this is (in my opinion) a very complicated thing - at least for novices. Watch yourself around your horse, your movements, your attitudes - give him time to approach you. So often we humans start in without thinking and all the while our horses don`t know what to make of us because we are not speaking their language but forcing ours on them (in certain cases - my own, for example.) No wonder they are sometimes rude or otherwise disobedient. We teach them to be so. Another thing I realized is that my horse is absolutely intelligent ! I knew it all along of course, but never really tested it out. One time I stood there and held up Kai´s halter - fully expecting him to stick his head in it - and do you know what - he did ! I thought that was so fantastic, I began operating under the motto - if I expect mor from him, he will willingly oblige - I just have to ask. Nowadays my friendship with Kai is much much better. We "click", which is something I never thought I would be saying about us. We go on hour-long walks - climb over stumps and branches and other little gymnastic exercises. When I ride he is absolutley obedient. (Therefore I decided at one point to cut out, for example, the longing, which he hates.) Time and challenge strengthens bonds, just like the others have said. I agree wholeheartedly. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 17. November 1998 03:32 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Oops! More info! > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jean gayle) > > I am looking for a sweet horse if you want to find a good home for > him. Jean :) > > > >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >In a message dated 11/16/98 15:04:29 Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >writes: > > > ><< He's a sweet horse and I have nothing against him, I just don't > > have a "connection" with him. Has anyone else ever had that problem > or is > > it just me? >> > > > >It's not just you. Just as certain people seem to click, and others > can > >grate, it's the same with horse relationships. Luckily, my own > personal > >horses and I have always been on the same wavelength, but with some > it takes > >longer than others. I know Juniper and I did not have an instant > rapport, but > >it developed as we went through some rough times and some good times > together. > >Sometimes also you need to just relax and do nothing with your horse. > Take a > >long walk together, or sit with him while he grazes, scratch his neck > >occasionally, asking nothing of him. Sounds silly, I know, but it IS > a good > >way to develop a bond. Just being together. No expectations. > Give > >yourself and your horse some more time and maybe it will happen for > you. > > > >Pamela > >Hoping this makes sense to you > > > Jean Gayle --- A Subscriber at Techline
RE: What a beautiful weekend for horses! Learning Machines
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Foals should be given time to grow up in their herd, learn what it means to be a horse and find their own individual place within it. I thought this was common knowledge, until I subscribed to this list. I just wonder how these babies with no childhood look and act when they are older - and wonder if they reach peak ages (39+) founder-free, of course, like they do here. Maybe you can learn something. It`s abrupt, because it`s the truth. Too bad you don`t apply some of your oversensitivity to your training program.
RE: What a beautiful weekend for horses!
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 1 1/2 is way too young. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Montag, 19. Oktober 1998 17:08 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: What a beautiful weekend for horses! > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > We hitched Evita and Carol today, they were perfect, I think they will > be > Craig's pair for Sleigh rally season, Ekkar went to his new home. We > will miss > him!! My Brother navigates for Craig at CDE's and he was here > learning to > ride on Hostar, a very good teacher, and learning to drive Hilde on > the > roads.We hitched our one and a half year old fjord gelding to a cart > for the > first time and same age Hanovarian, She thinks she is a fjord in a > brown suit. > Went off really well. We spend alot of time wearing harness in the > stall > while we are doing chores to get them use to feel, movement and sounds > in > blinders (ofcourse you must be ever vigilant) Cynthia I thought your > idea for > the Herald would be fun! Doesn't Sally Weber do a super job, and she > is > always so pleasant! Pat, nice picture of the Tandem, cool! Enjoy the > autumn > on horseback! L of the Hollow
RE: Gunthar's Canter Phobia- "Unabridged Version"
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Gail - read your "article" with much interest. I am always interested where training is concerned - like to read about other folks' experiences - compare notes - and get some comfort and reassurance out of the whole procedure myself. I can`t diagnose what is going wrong with Gunthar, but I can tell reassure you a thousand times that my gelding, Kai, has gone through the same stages as your pony. And I have wracked my brains as to what the causes or ailments could be. But then the "problem" corrects itself and I forget about it - until the next one crops up. There is always going to be something that isn`t quite perfect in the training phase. I remember when Kai "suddenly" seemed to have decided that he couldn ´t bend to the circle. Yesterday he was fine, the next day he simply "coudln´t". He would toss his head about - stop - try to go the other way - back up - you name it. That concerned me. I mentioned this to a girl at our stall, Monika, who said, more or less, "you can`t expect a horse to be the same all of the time - just because he turned once, doesn`t mean he is always going to bend for you - horses change, too, you know, and they have their moods - that`s the way it is during training - and throughout the whole of a horses life". Oh. I found his sort of discouraging, to tell you the truth and decided that Monika didn't know what she was talking about. But, actually, I think now, that she was right, to a certain extent. She was obviously perturbed that little old me - new to the scene - insisted that Kai must have tooth problems. Well, on that score, I was right - his back teeth were too long and had to be capped - afterward he turned like a charm. Other "developments", though, just don`t seem to make sense to us, because we can`t explain the behaviour, we can`t find the reason, which often has several motivating factors - all of which seem to come and go in such a mysterious way that it is simply beyond our grasp to comprehend. It would certainly be easier if our ponies would simply tell us what was the matter with them ! To me, it seems like you have reasonably explained Gunthar`s ills: He is older, and just started training. (Several months training is not alot. Basic training takes up to two years. You have already cantered him - so he has shown he IS able to do so). You have tried a variety of different saddles, all of which, to your mind and eye, seem to fit him okay. So this probably is not the culprit. He seems to have a joint ailment. This could be it - don`t you think ? Sometimes he canters, sometimes not - perhaps depending upon how he feels ? He bolts - maybe he is in pain ? It could also be that Gunthar doesn`t feel like working. One glimpse of the arena and he has already had enough. This is also still quite new to Gunthar: physically, he "feels" perhaps overtaxed - the hock out of whack and increased swelling are both portenders of strain. You say he is not perfectly proportioned to executing dressage exercises ... So it`s no wonder he is balking. He might not bolt in front of a cart - no saddle, no extra weight of a rider, no circling - no fear of keeling over for lack of equilibrium. You might consider giving the driving a try - I don`t know why that is more dangerous than riding. Riding poses just as much of a risk to animal and human, doesn`t it ? My horse, Kai, has been in training since mid-February of this year. 8 months or so. He has been ridden consistently once a week by a "good" rider and I get on him 2-3 times a week. Kai and I do bending exercises - shoulder fore - shoulder in - travers etc.. - and lots of circles and of course some "straight ahead". We do this predominantly at the walk. (This trains the mind as well as the body. You might try some of these on Gunthar. After he got used to them, Kai has really sort of "gotten into it" - but it`s gymnastics that are very exhausting - no time for panic :O)) I do trot him quite a bit - but with lots of little pauses inbetween. But I leave the canter out nowadays - in fact, I have not cantered Kai since last June. I decided to leave that to someone who a) really knew what she was doing and b) was not afraid that he might go berzerk, which he has done once or twice with me on him. One time he threw himself so far forward - I thought he would fall (which is my worst nightmare), I let go and was flung against the arena wall. What he lacked was self-confidence and balance, which is even more important. But I guess you can`t have the one without the other. So, I decided to leave Kai alone. And I am sure he was quite relieved. I was relieved myself. Sonja, the good rider, rides him at the walk, trot and canter. She saw how Kai would work himself up into a high-pitched panic every time she simply sat out the trot. He immed
where ?
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Josie - you mention that you live in the Southwest. Where ? You
mention Phoenix - are you in
Arizona ? I am interested in knowing because we are also familiar with
that area of the States -
we lived in Mesa, Tempe, Chandler (where didn`t we roam ?) and my
grandmother is now out in
Apache Junction. We will be visiting here in December. Please let me
know - perhaps we would
drive out and see you and your desert ponies.
Regards,
Kristine
> -Original Message-
> From: Larson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Montag, 12. Oktober 1998 12:42
> To: fjordhorse
> Subject: RE: Becky
>
> This message is from: Larson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Becky, I think you may have misunderstood the Farm Host idea for
> SouthwesEvaluations. No one was or is
> interested in hosting an evaluation at an inadequate facility.
> However, there are breeding ranches down here
> with exceptional indoor facilities which could easily host an
> Evaluation in excess of 30 mounts. We're not all
> little backyard operations just because we aren't up in the Northwest
> vacinity.
>
> However, I agree to the "home field advantage" theory. Still, if an
> Evaluation is held on your home turf, even
> at a public facility, chances are you have the edge anyway. But I
> don't really believe an evaluator is fooled by
> much.
>
> The idea for those of us in the Stepchild Southwest {Brian, can I
> include you in the Stepchild group even
> though you are out East? : ) }, is that we have no group nor formal
> club to act as host. That means a
> breeder/owner/trainer will have to act as host at their facility OR
> their local public facility in order to pull off
> an evaluation. My question to Nancy was not so much concerned with a
> owner hosted farm, but an owner
> hosted evaluation. If I or someone like me in the Southwest does all
> the footwork to host an Evaluation at,
> say, Westworld in Phoenix, can I still enter my or their horses in the
> Evaluation? Even though I may have
> worked closely with the Judge in order to work out the kinks?
>
> I hope this helps you feel better about this issue. You must
> understand that Oregon is a bit far for us to haul
> horses, even for an evaluation. But as members of the NFHR, we would
> like to establish a few goings on
> down here that fall under the auspices of the NFHR.
>
> Josie
RE: To Kristine - the crop!!
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Linda - good for you !! See, a little aggression can be good at times. In future, all you will (hopefully) have to do is point and your pony will move over. My mother brought over a book for me on her recent visit to Germany from Chicago: "Horses behavin` badly" by ??? He talks about bucking and balking and a number of other mishaviors. In one chapter he mentions Rose, a frail little soul who finally learned to dominate her animals. In this context, the author brings up precisely this point about aggression - that especially women are afraid - or simply never learned how to be - aggressive and how this is not a negative thing etc. etc.. According to the author - and in the end to our own experience, too - you must learn how to assert yourself - or you will always be the underdog. When working with horses, this can be dangerous. Nobody wins. It`s all about self-respect, actually and insisting that others - especially our horses - respect us. Unfortunately, it is of course easier said than done, but once you`ve started, you realize it can be done and so become more and more self-assured every day ! Your horse will learn to love you for it ! > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Freitag, 9. Oktober 1998 15:02 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: To Kristine - the crop!! > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Hi Kristine: > > It worked!! One bump from the crop and over he went - I just carried > it in my > hand and he stayed away. Guess I needed to get a little firmer - hard > to do > for me at times - new horse, new program and I am not the most > agressive horse > owner (the reason I wanted a trained, experienced horse) - but thanks > for the > tip - and now to find a different halter. The round-pen is next!! > Linda in > Minnesota where our weather has turned warm again - but not for > long!!!
RE: to Kristine W and Linda L
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Ann - you said it about the pitfalls. I wish we COULD do some round pen work. The barn where Kai is now has a kind of round pen affair - but it`s open about 3 feet, which doesn`t help matters. If Kai broke away, which he loves to do on the longe line, he is out of the pen in 2 seconds. I made the comment once in passing to the owner that it would be nice if he would close the area off. He informed me that they had closed it off several times already but that certain horses always crashed through it. Can you imagine ? > -Original Message- > From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 1998 20:17 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: to Kristine W and Linda L > > This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi, I think you two and I have been over a lot of the same territory > with our horses. It is really helpful when you guys take the time to > share your experiences; we can all help each other avoid pitfalls. > any > one done any round pen work with your horses? I was told to go back > to > basics with droy, so we may this winter. Also, hope that Pat > perelli's > Barb Appell will be returning to our area a third time this summer. > My > hope is that I'd-rather-have-a-boat Mark will enetr the course with > the > horse and I can watch, as I will be nursing my first baby (at 35)! > enjoy your fall! > ann >
RE: chain alternative...
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi - I had the chain over Kai`s nose once - he didn`t like it - it slips and slides etc. I usually insert it under his chin - it stays put and hangs loosely most of the time ! > -Original Message- > From: Ingrid Ivic [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 8. Oktober 1998 19:54 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: chain alternative... > > This message is from: Ingrid Ivic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > I will hold off on the chain unless I really need it > > - - overall this gelding is very good and if I just work with him he > will "get > > it". He already has improved alot since I first got him - just need > to keep > > working and practicing. Linda > > > Hi Linda...I have one more suggestion to add...if you don't want to > use a chain over the nose, but feel like you need more control---try > using a halter that has a "rolled noseband". This works quite well > also, > commands respect, plus it looks handsome! Best to you, Ingrid
RE: Fjord Training
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello, Linda - Kai used to crowd in the beginning, too - and step on my feet and go too fast etc. etc.. He still crowds my husband when they go for a walk. I am not sure why - someone once told me that Fjords are "in your face"-type animals and like it real cozy. But I am not sure about that. I just know that pushing doesn`t fly with me. For that reason I always have him (Kai, not my husband) on a "chain" lead; the chain part is perhaps 10 inches long and I weave it in and out of the halter. This helps to keep him in line and if he forces me to jerk on it I will and this is uncomfortable for him. In the beginning he was so unruly that I had to walk him around with his bridle and bit on him. Nowadays it is a pleasure to go for walks - I enjoy it almost as much as riding. But I refuse to dispense with the chain lead. Apart from the chain lead I always carry a CROP. This is paramount - Kai has respect to the nth degree for the whip and I use this to my advantage, which is also his advantage, in the long run. When Kai is too quick, I tap him lightly on the breast, murmur "s, slower" and he responds. He knows what it`s all about, but he just running a spot check, testing, to see whether or not I am paying attention. He wants to obey, but he has to make sure first that its worth it - funny, just exactly like children - they know when you are bluffing. Take a crop along with you, Linda, and point the way out to your gelding. When he gets too close, tap him on the side (if you push, he will simply "lean" into your shove) with the whip - then you can point out to the front and side to show him where you want him to walk. Speak to him as you do this - horses understand language after a time. You might also try leading him on both sides. You may notice that he reacts differently - is quicker, slower, does crowd etc... Kai leads better when I am right of him than left. I have read that it is a good idea to carry out every sort of procedure both from the left and from the right - including mounting, leading and so forth - to keep the horses from becoming stiff and too one-sided. It is also good for improving the horses awareness - the left-sided experience can differ greatly a repetition of the same on the right. Good luck on the lunge line ! Regards, Kristine > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 7. Oktober 1998 13:58 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Fjord Training > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Thank you, Nancy, for your helpful comments and suggestions regarding > training. Also appreciate the recommendation on the video - Linda > from > Minnesota > > I am interested in your comment about "teaching your Fjords to stay > out of > your space". Could you elaborate on what you actually do to reinforce > this? > When I lead my l0 yr. old gelding he will sometimes crowd me - if I > push on > him with my arm or elbow it seems to have little effect - I have been > turning > him around whenever he does this and it seems to help a little - maybe > you > have a better suggestion. > > Also, any suggestions for starting this l0 year old in round pen > training (he > has not been in one to my knowlegde and has never been on a > lunge-line) - is > not real crazy about going in circles - prefers straight ahead! > Again, > thanks!!!
RE: Fjord Training
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Nancy -
interesting that you start training your Fjords at the age of two. I
guess most horses in the States are started
around that age.
Here, though, it is widely "known" that the Fjord is a late bloomer and
not mature until the age of 6. Most Fjords
are first gently ridden and slightly worked at the age of 4 at the very
earliest.
Why do you start so soon ? Isn`t the danger of hoof disease ("founder"?)
greatly increased ?
Also, what about the pyschological effects ? I am interested to hear
your opinions on this as the issue is
red hot over here.
Regards,
Kristine
> -Original Message-
> From: Nancy Hotovy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 7. Oktober 1998 02:50
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Fjord Training
>
> This message is from: Nancy Hotovy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I've been reading with interest the comments in regards to the
> training
> of Fjord. I also believe Fjords attract a lot of first time horse
> owners. In selling to a first time owner, I always recommend they
> find
> a clinic, trainer, 4-H Club, Driving Club to train themselves first.
> Fjords are very intelligent animals - sometimes to darned smart for
> their own good. Some of our best performance horses are just not
> suitable for a first time owner. The rider/driver HAS to be smarter
> than the horse. That's not to say that some Fjords aren't
> "babysitters". You know, the kind of horse that will take care of
> anyone and even when the human is in error, the horse will still
> compensate.
>
> We start teaching all foals manners from their first day of life. It
> is
> NEVER OK to bite, kick, strike (I've heard it called shaking hands).
> The horses are never to intrude in my space when being led. I am the
> boss! (My husband thinks I'm bossy too).
> I introduce them to cross ties and clippers and brushing by the time
> they are a couple months old. Do not expect perfection at that time,
> but every lesson should be a positive experience. We don't handle
> weanlings every day or even every week, but being Fjords they are very
> friendly whenever approached in the pasture and learn quickly what is
> OK
> and what is not.
>
> When it is time for driving lessons (late yearling or 2 year old year
> here) I use a bitting rig and round pen them until they know WHOA and
> are giving nicely to the bit. At that time we put them with our big,
> totally trained, totally unflappable gelding and drive them on a stone
> boat for a few days until that is no longer a big deal, then on to a
> small driving wagon. At that time, I put many miles each day on them
> (if they are over two). The wagon is very light and I introduce them
> to
> highways, towns, railroads, and anything else I can find that will
> frighten a young horse. Please note, this is done gradually and the
> gelding I use does as much of the teaching as I do. When the young
> horse shys at something, I talk to them, give them firm commands and
> confidence all the while my gelding is walking on as unconcerned as
> can
> be. In a few short lessons, it seems the young horse looks to my
> "rock"
> and thinks, "Gee, this doesn't bother him at all, I guess it's OK".
> In
> the end, I have a horse that has total confidence in me and is pretty
> trustworthy in any situation it might encounter. Please note, this is
> a
> VERY BRIEF description of all I do in the training. It is a training
> method I learned from Cathy Zahm, Huntington, Indiana who has
> successfully trained hundreds of draft horses. She gives clinics and
> has videos. I highly recommend the clinic to anyone new to driving
> although I don't recommend training your own horse if you're just
> learning yourself. A statement that is always scary is "I want to buy
> a
> foal so we can learn together". Safety should always practiced and is
> the first thing anyone dealing with horses needs to learn.
>
> I've heard a few negative comments about having to hire a trainer.
> Money spent on a good trainer is not wasted. A well trained Fjord is
> a
> joy to own, whether you show or just trail ride/drive.
>
> I'll get off my soapbox now and hope I haven't bored everyone to
> death.
> My whole message here is LEARN AND PRACTICE SAFETY!
RE: blessing, and sharing knowledge
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Ann You should indeed attend the Pat Parelli course, if you can. I was there as a spectator and got more out of it than if I had had my horse there with to distract me. The "gamey" aspect is truly the key - I could tell that Kai was astounded by some of the simplest things, which of course I never would have come up with myself. For example, that he should not turn away from me when I am standing beside him, brushing him or whatever. If he turns his head to the right when I am standing left, I simply "touch" him with the crop on my side. He then turns toward me - looking for the irritant - realizes its me and then I leave him alone. Soon, all of that touching becomes bothersome for him and he starts chewing and paying attention to me. These are small issues of utmost importance (according to Parelli & others). Another thing that seems to have changed Kai´s mind about things is the idea that I can persuade him to go backwards. It is generally said that this is an important part of gaining dominance over the horse, whose first thought and reflex is motion to the fore. Parelli encourages using a lead and slapping it with the "carrot stick" he "invented" (a non-flexible orange colored crop w/ a whip) to send the horse backwards to the end of the line. The animal should then stay put until prompted to come forward. Another way to move your horse backward is to apply hand pressure to the horse`s nose and push him backward - the amount of pressure depends upon his compliance with your command. I tried this method out on Kai - a light press sufficed - and sent him around the flat - 20 or so steps. Boy, was he confused. "What`s going on?" he seemed to querie. I practiced this several times during a one or two week period. I could tell by the look in his eyes that he was beginning to understand the necessity of his subjection to me. The reality that someone or thing could prompt him to go backwards so easily - and that he did not resist. This was new. Because Kai´s defiance streak underscores a rascally but sweet nature (he is only 4), I felt that these exercises were necessary to prove my "superiority" over him. On the other hand, after those several sessions of backwards propulsion, I realized that Kai, who is also very sensitive and by no means dumb, had understood the lesson and began to take my commands for him to step back as a kind of punishment. Therefore, I have made it a practice to have him backup when I would otherwise have to go around or duck under him (the horse should ALWAYS budge for us and not the other way around - something the horse is constantly aware of but that we tend to forget) or if the way is blocked etc.. Nowadays all I need to do is say - "backup, backup Kai" and he knows what it`s all about. Super ! And the greatest thing is that he doesn`t seem to be bothered by that command any carries it out gladly. It is so wonderful to have the feeling now that we understand each other. And all because of this simple little exercise. He is happier, I am ecstatic. There were so many other games taught in those sessions - if you can, attend ! It will open your eyes to the world of horse thinking. They are clever and they are always conscious of what`s going on around them and reason on the basis of our actions, of which we are not always aware ourselves. But this course will help you in that regard. Marsha: You are right, too, I guess: feelings are bruised so quickly and inadvertently. I was recently told what not to do and it made me mad at first - later, of course, I had to admit that my "mentor" was right. Feelings and especially pride should not get in the way of safety, though, for goodness sake. Imagine smugly sitting around, spectator to an accident that you could have prevented. That is crazy - irresponsible and without conscience. Regards, Kristine > -Original Message- > From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 6. Oktober 1998 20:21 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: re: blessing, and sharing knowledge > > This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > In response to Kristine Werner, thank you for encouraging all to share > > what they know. I am interested that you enjoyed your Pat Perelli > course with Kai. It may actually be a possiblility to attend one up > here, so i am interested. I was thinking that the "game" aspect of a > > lot of it would appeal to Dro/y; he is too smart and really gets bored > > easily. Besides, if I don't initiate the games, he will! Keep me > posted with Kai. > Re blessing the animals, I know that if I took Dro/y to be blessed, he > > would be sure that HE was the one that would bless or not bless, thank > > you very much! > ann
RE: Re: Education via Evaluation
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello, Vivian - I agree, I agree, I agree ! Fjords are horses just like all the others - even Fjord owners themselves don`t always want to believe this. True, they are very sensitive - and also very smart. You are right, because they are so loveable and such willing hard workers, beautiful and not too big either, they are super attractive to first-time buyers. What I didn`t understand about the Fjords that I found so cute and sweet was that docility and well-manneredness are the effects of good training and not the results of having been "born broke", not intrinsically Fjordish. The owner and keeper has to encourage this in his horses, but first he has to know how. Unfortunately, many breeders like to propogate the myth of the perfectly tractable Fjord horse, and that is a real problem here. They say - "just be consistent, it`ll all work out". Ha ! You can be consistent and be consistenly wrong - that is the problem - that was my problem and sometimes still is. The best of intentions but not a clue in the world what I am doing. Thank goodness, though - it does seem to be working out for Kai and myself - but for several months there it was touch and go - very difficult, because I simply did not know what I was doing. I searched the web frantically for answers and finally wound up going to Pat Parelli courses. The implementation of several of Parelli`s key exercises really helped to spur Kai`s interest in me and my role as his trainer and "boss". Without that, I don`t know where we would be today. Had the breeder of the Fjord Interest Group assisted me, problems such as Kai running away, biting & bucking under saddle could have been nipped in the bud immediately, and most importantly, correctly. Training would have helped me at that point tremendously. Over here, though, I am not aware of any sort of discussion on this subject, important as it is. That is why I hope that you are able to come up with a program for new buyers. This would improve the marketing of these wonderful animals even more. If Fjords are well-trained, they can`t be beat and this is a fact hard to ignore. Share your knowledge ! > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 6. Oktober 1998 01:29 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Re: Education via Evaluation > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Brian and all on the List > Thank you Brian for your comments on incidents at Libby. All I have to > offer > is that Fjords are indeed unique, but also just horses. Good training > methods > used in other breeds work very well for Fjords. Obviously the > competency of > trainer involved is paramount. Consistent clear training is above all > necessary for success. I have seen the same scenarios described > enacted at > countless Open driving shows. Ground driving a hitched horse is almost > always > a given for disaster, unless in a small confined area with all the > harness put > to correctly, and only at the early stages of training. And if the > inexperineced owner has been fed the line about born broke and has > suffered no > calamity at home they will beileve it. Horses need clear direction to > beable > to handle situations that may arise when out and about. Respnding to > oral ques > especially whoa and stand are very important to success. Good ground > manners > are important. It takes an amazing amount of time to establish a > winning bond. > Not just a couple a uneventful trips around the yard. I haven't even > begun my > dissertation on how to make them supple,round and responive, but I do > believe > that Fjords need the same consistent training that all breeds need to > allow > them to perform at the top. Open shows are the perfect venue to > promote the > breed. At Gladstone the premier Combined Driving Event on the EAst > Coast > Fjords figured prominently in the placings. The Wich's placed third > and Fifth > in Preliminary and Marnix placed first at Intermediate. This didn't > happen by > accident. Long hours of training went into each individual > performance. If you > have questions about training don't hesitate to look outside the Fjord > world. > There is so much to be gained from the non Fjord trainer if he ar she > is > capable the knowledge would certainly take a life time to absorb. My > daughter > is rushing me through this and I've probably said enough. But my point > is look > to people who have been succesful in the Open show venue and ask for > help > whenever it's needed. Vivian
RE: Youth Program
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Mary - it`s the same over here with the "unusual breed" business. In
fact, the Fjord is widely known here
in Europe - but like you said, for some reason, ignored. Fjords place
and often win in a myriad of competition
types - but, no matter - people don`t like to accept it. Funny, it`s a
kind of "racism", isn`t it ? But we wouldn `t trade
our Norwegians for any other kind of horse - or pony !!
Over here, the Fjord Interest Group sponsers the bi-annual Fjord-Cup -
the first is held in May and is for
"juniors" only - the second takes place in autumn and is for both
"juniors" and "seniors" ("kids" over 18 yrs of age).
Exclusively for Fjord Horses - it`s quite an event.
> -Original Message-
> From: Mary Barsness [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Montag, 5. Oktober 1998 16:14
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Youth Program
>
> This message is from: "Mary Barsness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I was wondering what people think about having some type of youth
> incentive
> program. MAny horse breeds have some type of youth program for kids
> to
> participate. I think it would be a great way to encourage kids to get
> out
> and exhibit with their fjords. I know we have the Award of Excellence
> and
> the Versatility Awards ( which we do participate in) but I think it is
> very
> difficult for a lot of kids who have fjords to participate and do well
> at
> open shows. I know for my own children that it has taken many years
> for
> them to start placing well with their fjords at 4-H shows. I think
> the
> unfair reality is that when you show with an unusual breed at an open
> show
> that many judges just don't know what to do with with breeds they are
> unfamiliar with and so many tend to not even look at them. I think it
> would
> be nice for the registry to have some type on incentive program for
> the
> youth so we could recognize their efforts with their horses. What do
> other
> people think?
>
> Mary
RE: New Member
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello Mary - I am also a native Minnesotan - Minneapolis ! Live in Germany now and have 1 Fjord. Competed in the so-called "Material-Test" recently and Kai won 2 place out of 5 - between two stallions ! Was I proud of him. I had him ridden - but next year I plan to ride him myself and see what happens. Are there alot of Fjords in Minnesota ? I never saw a Fjord until I came to Europe and then just two years ago - and I knew right away that that was the horse for me. Well, take care. Kristine Werner > -Original Message- > From: Mary Barsness [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 30. September 1998 16:27 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: New Member > > This message is from: "Mary Barsness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hello. My name is Mary Barsness. I have been receiving the list > since > this summer, but so far I have only been reading the list. After > Steve > sent the directions for using the list and asked that we introduce > ourselves, I felt is was time to stop just reading other peoples > comments and instead contribute some comments of my own. I live in > Minnesota. I have three Fjords. I have two daughters who are very > good > riders who compete with our Fjords in dressage. They also show their > Fjords through 4-H. The past two years my daughter has won the > English > Pleasure class at 4-H. This is quite an accomplishment as this class > is > usually very large ( 20+ entries) and has traditionally been dominated > by quarter horses. I also ride and drive our Fjords. My husband is a > good sport and comes to shows to cheer us on. His highlight of the > show > season is his one class he enters at Blue Earth. He enters the > costume > class at Blue EArth with my two daughters. Their picture ( Barsness > family does Grease) is on the NFHR home page. I have to say with all > the other shows we go to that the costume class at Blue Earth is by > far > my girls favorite class. They are already planning their costume for > next year. I help Nancy Hotovy and Cynthia Madden with planning the > Blue Earth show. Over the past few years I think we have expanded the > show yet retain the fun. I hope to keep adding classes to the show to > meet the growing talents of our Fjords and their exhibitors. I would > welcome suggestions for our show. > > Mary >
RE: Fjord or quarter horse
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To Julie Finn: I bought Kai at 3 1/2. He had no training whatsoever. He cost around $3.000. His training costs have amounted to much more than this. But it'´s not just the money, it`s the time you have to invest in a young animal. Most importantly, however, it`s really best if you are knowledgeable about young horses and can train them properly. I was told this before I bought Kai and brought him home - but did not want to believe it. I figured it would work out somehow. And it has. But - like I said - you have to invest lots of time - reading, confering with others, with your horse and money on his training - because - as I realized in the end - you owe it to your horse and to yourself to see to his/her professional handling and care. Otherwise you are asking for trouble. Fjords are adorable and usually very sweet-natured and people-loving. And for that very reason you can easily get bowled over by them - literally. They are generally smart and strong-willed. From what I have read, most do not care to be longed and can get wily to be point of posing a danger to you if you are not just as stringent and insistent as they are. My horse, for example, did not even want to ride on a circle - it proved difficult for him to bend and flex - he protested for several weeks by bucking and running around the arena at break-neck speeds. Thank goodness I - we - did not give up on Kai. I kept on trying different things - reviewing old lessons - and nowadays - just half a year later (seems longer) - I can be really proud of Kai - and he can be and is proud of himself. Working through the doubts and the struggles turned out to be worth it - but it`s not over yet ! Please be sure to weigh the pros and cons carefully. A trained horse is ready to go and can teach you something - a green fjord will be the challenge of your life. You simply have to decide which you prefer and stick with it ! > -Original Message- > From: julie finn [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Freitag, 18. September 1998 23:02 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Fjord or quarter horse > > This message is from: "julie finn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hello, I am new to this E-mail Group. I am actually new to Fjords. > Someone mentioned the general public becoming interested in this > breed. > I think my family would meet this category - middle class,not very > knowledgable about horses,looking for a mild manner horse which is > easy > to maintain- not interested in linerage or gait, but unable to afford > a > older trained fjord. > This is my dilemma. Is it better to buy a well trained quarter horse > or > a younger Fjord? They are around the same price in my part of the > country. > Any comments on this please. I realize horses are individuals so look > at > this as a generalization. > I would like to add I enjoy this E-Mail group. Some of the information > > is over my head, but maybe I'll learn by osmosis. > > __ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
RE: fjordhorse-digest V98 #158
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi - I agree with Mike and Joyce and Julia Wills: Original European standards coupled with the evaluation of both temperment and conformation should be enforced. Julia mentioned that the temperment exemplified by the animals depends to a large extent upon treatment by human beings. If a stallion bites and displays injurious behavior toward his handler, it is probably not the animal`s fault. His good character may have actually been spoiled - who knows ? And for that very reason is it probably not a good idea to give him the blue ribbon, which simply encourages breeders and owners to be all the more slack where proper training is concerned - "he won the blue ribbon and that is good enough". Poor horse - he looks good but has no self-esteem or -confidence. Animals look to their "masters" to teach them and where a lack of training prevails, insolence and nasty behaviour settle in and become the order of the day. Is this something to strive for - to be rewarded ? Anyone can be lucky when it comes to breeding a beautiful pony. But manners are not happenstance - a well-mannered pony is something you can REALLY be proud of. And it inspires others to follow suit when it comes to their animal`s education. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 1. September 1998 00:38 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #158 > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > this message is from Mike & Joyce Cook/West Church Fjords, Swanton, > Oh. > > Why did all the discussion regarding stallions suddenly end? I > personally > still believe we as the NFHR should adopt the European standard for > this > breed. Does anyone else feel the same way? Let's get the "talking" > going > again.. >Mike & > Joyce Cook > West > Church Fjords
RE: Fjords & Western style saddles
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I was on a course 2 weeks ago and one of the participants had one of those Syd Hill Saddles - supposedly from Australia - her horse was"chubby" - a Dülmener Wild Horse. She thought it was the greatest thing. It looks good, too - but is very heavy. Apparently alot of people order this saddle and wind up selling it because it is meant for horses with a wide girth. My "Kai" is sort of slender for a Fjord - and leggy. I had to sell the first saddle I bought for him because his withers are not pronounced enough. I bought him a KIEFER saddle, the type is "Aachen" and it fits him perfectly. I bought it second hand and am very pleased with it. Cheers ! > -Original Message- > From: Jackie Kennedy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 1. September 1998 09:16 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Fjords & Western style saddles > > This message is from: "Jackie Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > was just wondering what kinds of saddles you > > have found to provide the best fit for your Fjord. > > > > I use a stock saddle which is what we call Australian saddles here > with the > fjord I ride. She is very wide and it fits her well. I use it > because I'm > disabled and this saddle with the knee pads as we call them here helps > me > maintain my balance. > > Jackie Kennedy > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Germans...ach, so geht es!
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hallo, Ingrid - guten Tag - das Wetter hier ist so was von Fies! Ha - our car comes from Kreis Peine - we bought it from Dietmar`s colleague. Yes - things are changing here, too. Mostly the politics - radical. Bye for now! > -Original Message- > From: Ingrid Ivic [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Samstag, 22. August 1998 06:12 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: Germans...ach, so geht es! > > This message is from: Ingrid Ivic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hallo Kristine, > > It is nice to meet another "fellow german". I was born in Gross > Lafferde (in the West), close to Kreis Peine...not too far from > Hannover. My parents just came back from a 7 week vacation there and > brought back many videos of Lafferde, and the Hartz also. How my home > town has changed since I was 12! People still use their horses to farm > though. I was happy to see my "former" neighbours there still have > their > Haflingers and Fjords too. > > > You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in > > Germany - horseowners > > in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with > their > > animals. > > > Funny thing, but generally you are right, not too much is admitted > as > far as difficulties go. A sign of weakness, I suppose. > My older fjords longe fine, but the young one still needs to learn > some. I found longing her with the older mare helps...I'm talking > free-longing...off the longe line, in a small pen or area sectioned > off. > They have fun this way, with the older one "teaching" the young one. > She > tells her when to move off a bit quicker, and also to slow down. Now > the > young one watches me more for cues, before her longe partner pushes > her > along. I think they can get bored quickly if worked too long on the > longe line. Fjords seem to crave different things to think about all > the > time. Makes for an interesting, but willing partner. Variety is the > spice of life! Machs gut und schuss! Ingrid :o)
RE: Re: Stallion Tempermant
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Maybe I overlooked something, but I cannot recall having read one single contriubtion where EDUCATION of horses - INCLUDING stallions - was mentioned. It is a sin that the fantastic power of a stallion should be wasted on human beings who have no idea of how to tame, to handle and to use him. It is even worse that the stallion should have outsmarted his witless people (though in the end to his own detriment if he must then be destroyed) by proving his dominance over them. A stallion is an animal like a filly, a mare, a gelding. To treat him otherwise is absurd and irrepsonsible. Like children, left to their own devices, stallions do become dangerous - but, so do plenty of geldings and mares that I know of and some of the said human beings as well. What is lacking here seems to be confidence (or interest ?!) in the knowledge of the stallion, his behaviour and how his instincts can be tamed. Because indeed, they can be. The "wilder" example of a stud begs for a more skilful hand - and reflects at the same time the ignorance of his owner. I killer stallion is made, not born. A breeder is responsible for the stallion´s upbringing - or lack of it - and has noone but himself - not even genetics - to blame when the result is a horrendous one. It seems incredible to me that anyone should think otherwise. It is not a miracle that some stallions can be ridden and driven and used in hunting and jumping competions. This is absolutely normal for ANY breed of horse - and is accomplished on a daily basis. But you have to know what you`re doing, because stallions have certain special qualities that not just anybody is in a position to deal with. When I read about gnashing of teeth and a danger to the owner or handler - what about the animal having respect for human beings ? In some animals this comes naturally, others must literally be tamed. But it can be done. If a "man-eating" lion can be stilled, then a hot-blooded stallion - a flight-animal - should not prove - for the experienced hand - impossible to tame. On the contrary - the proudest animals are those that have been educated. They perform obediently and seem to know their own worth. Animals with no training become dull and even hateful - they are bored and worthless. These animals have no pride. Even Stallions. Unless of course one is simply interested in looks and money. Then you can scratch your head and declaim that he should be kept a stallion because he has wonderful conformation and can really bring in the bucks. To me this all looks like ignorance, greed and no genuine love of this fantastic breed. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Montag, 24. August 1998 00:59 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Re: Stallion Tempermant > > This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I think it should be pointed out that there are some mighty sweet > natured > stallions competing and winning in the all-breed world. Several > Morgans at the > Advanced Level. Norm Sutton's in particular is so low-keyed if he > didn't look > like a stud you would wonder. Robin Groves' stallion is always a > perfect > gentleman, both these horses have been used for breeding, and ofcourse > there > are stallions that compete in pairs together and with mares and > geldings. > Ursula don't you and Brian use a stallion in your Four-In Hand? I > hardly > think that winning at that level would be considered a dumbing down of > the > breed. I think it would be wonderful if all stallions acted like the > aforementioned horses. Anyway my original point was that Fjords don't > have a > market on the good behaviour of their studs and well behaved animals > should be > seen as an asset to their breed not some kind of deficiency. Vivian
RE: Stallion behavior or lack thereof.
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Marge - I have experienced exactly the same thing - My horse, Kai, always seemed to prefer my husband over me. We only have the one - and he is actually "mine" and you can imagine how frustrating and disappointing it was to see that Kai seemed to feel safer with Dietmar than with his loving owner/handler/rider/financier! Thank goodness that has changed. Because I noticed that something between me and Kai was "awry", I took a course recently along the lines of Pat Parelli and was pleasantly surprised by the effect the exercises suggested had on Kai - AND on me AND on our partnership. And the interesting and good thing about it is that it did not take long to achieve said positive results. Parelli (among others, of course) suggests a number of ways in which we can attain and maintain "dominance" over our horses. I tried out several of the more basic approaches - including asking him to go backwards and letting HIM move around me instead of vice versa - and noticed radical changes in Kai's behavior - AND in my attitude towards him. When I mobilize him - he realizes that 1) I have the "power" to get him moving and that 2) he does what I want and registers that, too. I realized that when I demand respect and EXPECT that I am going to get it - Kai actually submits. Perhaps not without a bit of testing - "does she REALLY mean it ?" sort of stuff - but when I insist, he lets go and seems to be relieved to FEEL that he is SAFE with me. This is what a horse wants. This is what I and what we all want. (Of course, there is the spoiled horse who bites everyone or runs them down - and many other exceptions. But I think the above can be applied to most. But a horse is a horse and with "proper" handling - which must be defined - will also "want" to re-gain his respect in humankind). > -Original Message- > From: Marge Littleboy [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Freitag, 21. August 1998 21:02 > To: 'Fjord Mailing List' > Subject: Stallion behavior or lack thereof. > > This message is from: Marge Littleboy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > In getting caught up on the fjord list, I have been reading the notes > about this stallion. I would like to make a comment, along the lines > of > Kathy's note. > > With our two mares I have a much better relationship with Brith than I > do with Asta. Brith can read me like a book, and we get along great. > Asta on the other hand can and has tried to walk all over me, but > respects Bill completely. Where we board, Vic gets along with Asta > terrifically, not a problem in the world, and Brith becomes the > dominant > mare to him. Our animals all evaluate us, as we do them. We get in > the > pecking order and it may not always be where we feel we belong. It > sounds like the stallion needs to (re)learn who is the "Alpha" in that > particular relationship, not just under saddle, but on the ground as > well. > > Over the years I have seen many incidents where a horse will relate > better to a man than a woman and others that get along better with a > woman more than a man. I am sure many of you have had the same > experience. Just as we need to respect them, they need to respect us, > but at times you come up against a tough one, it is not worth getting > hurt or someone else getting hurt. I wish this gal well on her > endeavor > with this stallion, and hope she is able to open that line of > communication she needs with her boy. > > Marge Littleboy > >
RE: stallion behavior
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Julie - sorry to be redundant - I was gone Friday and just got back. I read one or two of the contributions and then snapped off one of my own before I went any further. Funny how similar we wrote! > -Original Message- > From: Julia Will [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Freitag, 21. August 1998 03:47 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: stallion behavior > > This message is from: Julia Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth to the stallion discussion. I was > just > in Norway this spring at the stallion show, and overall the horses > were > EXTREMELY well mannered, even with 39 in the ring at once. One 3 year > old > reared a couple of times but that was the worst we saw in hand. Many > were > handled by young women. In the performance, one beautiful 5 year old > acted > up in the ring under saddle, refused to canter and to go to one end of > the > ring, and his license to breed was taken away. In the 6 week program > of > schooling for stallions, he had been a problem on more than one > occasion. > > We have two stallions, an 11 year old and a 3 year old. Both are very > "virile" and show beautiful presence, but both are completely safe to > be > around, to go into the pasture with, to feed, groom, breed mares with. > Yes, I use a stallion chain when going from pasture to barn, and I > NEVER > forget that it is a stallion on the end of the lead. And going down > the > aisle with horses on both sides, I want to have a firm grip on that > lead. > But neither horse would EVER offer to attack me, strike at me, kick, > bite, > etc. Several years ago we were raising a very promising young > stallion > prospect, a colt that had been handled since birth by experienced > horsepeople. By age 14 months, I was afraid to go into the paddock > with > him, as he would bite (not nip) at me. One day he left black and blue > marks on my upper arm and I called the vet. He is a wonderful > gelding, > owned by a 12 year old girl. We had a similar experience with a 3 > year old > that came to us as a stallion who had not been handled much. He > charged me > in the pasture with teeth baredanother gelding that is doing > wonderfully. > > So I guess that pretty well spells out my opinion. Julie @ Old > Hickory Farm
RE: fjordhorse-digest V98 #147
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Oh boy - I`m afraid I can`t keep my mouth shut on this one. Although I should: I do not breed and I am not a horse expert. Scant as it might be, I have however had some exposure to horses and at least as such experience with the breed. Therefore, I am going to add my two cents worth, for whatever it is worth, to this discussion. I must say that I agree with Ursula here. I cannot recall exactly what she said, but juxtaposed with carole's statement, I can just about guess. The purchase of my pony, Kai, turned out to be a lengthy procedure. We wound up visiting many different of this country`s breeders. But I bought Kai from E.. Why ? Because he has THE most impressive set of horses that I have EVER seen with a lifetime and lifestyle of professional horsemanship to back it up. He is allegedly much disliked for that - obviously he is doing something right. Unlike other breeders who make up for a COMPLETE lack of discipline in their biting, kicking and just plain mean old stallions by seeing to it that they all look extremely good from the outside, E. takes care of his horses by seeing to it that they are physically AND mentally prepared to be sold and make good, realiable horses that their new owners can work and have fun with. The old adage - content determines form is certainly appropriate here - you can`t wholly have the one, without the other. Kais breeder, E., handles his horses in such a way that ALL of them are well behaved. I repeat ALL. If I presented E. with some of the arguments presented here about "testosterone" levels and the necessity of stallions to act up when all that is required of them is to STAND STILL - he would undoubtedly laugh in your face. I hate to be harsh here - but if you saw his horses - from foal to stud and every mare and gelding inbetween, you would have to (perhaps even hate to) agree with me and anyone else who has seen his herd. I myself was amazed when he invited us to approach the broodmares and his favorite reserve-winning stallion, Kvest. They were absolutely calm - no biting, no fussing, no jerking no nothing. He said "pet him" - we did - Kvest simply came closer - it was an awesome thing, believe me. "Man, he is so reserved and self-contained - he doesn`t try to bite or anything" I breathed. E. replied "why should he ?". And this is precisely the point. Why should he ? It is all a matter of upbringing. If you say - my horse is not virile unless he is wild, frisky and otherwise out of control, I would ask - what is the point of "virility" if the horse is unmanageable ? Can he not be just as virile while displaying utmost self-control ? This is true and awesome beauty. Think about it. As a corallary to Kvest`s fanatastic self-control, he can be ridden by anyone. Just last May Kvest competed in the first of the bi-annual Fjord Cup series. The rider of the 9 year old stud, Kvest, was 9 year old Per, E.`s son, who won second place in two catagories out of three - including a round of caprilli jumping and dressage riding. I couldn`t help but take note of the fact that Per competed against exellent riders - several twice his age and with much more experience. Two of these girls performed on the generally badly-behaved stallions mentioned above. Neither of them placed - because those studs - although good-looking - were not "typey fjords" but just plain out of control. (Neither one of them could stand still, either). They were judged fairly - that is, accordingly. E.'s "second" son, a seven year old, rides Magnus - a 6 year old stallion imported earlier this year from Norway. I have ridden with them all - through forest terrain and water - at a walk, trot and canter. These stallions were manageable to a "T" - and easily "stopped" and "started". In other words, these animals, in spite of or because of their breeding ability, are treated in every other way like "normal" horses - which they are - and not spoiled because they are stallions and have to look good. Looking good is often a matter of self-compure and grace. Off the wall horses are definitely NOT pretty, but a disgrace to the breed - especially when compared with the above mentioned. > -Original Message- > From: Arthur and Carol Rivoire [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Donnerstag, 20. August 1998 20:08 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: fjordhorse-digest V98 #147 > > This message is from: Arthur and Carol Rivoire > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi Everybody, > > This message is from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia. > > Ursula's comments about evaluating a stallion's temperament at the > Evaluations, and her suggestion that we launch a discussion on the > subject > is important. This is a real good place to air i
RE: Longing
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Gail - yes, please elaborate - No dime store clickers in Germany and not sure what you mean. If I knew, I might have my mom bring a "clicker" over in September when she comes. My Fjord, Kai, also repsonds to stuff like "good Boy - suuper". Kristine > -Original Message- > From: GAIL RUSSELL [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 17:31 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Longing > > This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have had similar problems longing. No where near figuring it all > out, but > working *without* longe line in a round pen or other enclosed space, > coupled > with clicker training to induce gait changes, might be a solution. > Alexandra Kurlanda does clicker training with her horses and has used > it to > actually improve her horse's gaits. The principle is BF Skinner's > behavioral psychology. Instead of rewarding by a release of pressure, > you > reward by giving a distinctive sound (people often use those little > "dime > store" frog clickers) which is *always* followed by a food reward. > Clicker > training is taking over the dog obedience world because it makes such > happy > performers. I've done a bit with Gunthar, no where near what I could > have > done. But he learns *very fast.* Took me 10 minutes to train him to > touch > the end of my whip - and he still remembers it months later with no > practice > in between. Alexandra talks about, among other things, a hard-to-shoe > horse > (read dangerous kicker) arriving at his stall door with his front foot > cranked up into position for trimming - just in case someone wanted to > trim > it. :) > > If there is interest I'll elaborate - not sure this is perfectly > appropriate > to a FJord list - except that clicker training works *very well* with > smart > inquisitive horses. > GAil > > At 04:58 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: > >This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with > >longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider > has > >given me problems during his training! Everything else from being > tied up > >as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as > a 5 > >year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He > would > >stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep > on > >moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, > then > >he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very > >cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his > hooves in > >the sand. > > > >Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we > started to > >ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I > >should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it > would > >be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like > longing > >more now, one never knows. > > > >Regards > >Anneli > > > >At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: > >>This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >>Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear > that > >>other > >>people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is > me, > >>I`m the > >>only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. > >>You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in > >>Germany - horseowners > >>in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with > their > >>animals. > >>In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment > on > >>the longeline > >>most people just look at me and go "oh. that should never happen. > don`t > >>let that happen." > >>And of course, I would just lve to scream !!! So, thanks for > your > >>honesty !! > >> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 > >>> To: Fjordhorse List > >>> Subject: Longing > >>> > >>> This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> > >>> In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing
RE: Longing
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Anneli - yea ! another one who hates longing ! I have practiced this exercise twice just this week with Kai. To tell you the truth, he didn`t do too badly. At the walk he is fine - bored stiff of course and looking around for distractions - but fine nonetheless. At the trot he is usually also okay - I`ve noticed that he gets impatient when his head is pulled so I always try to give him little "half halts". I longe him in a pen made for that purpose - the stall owners don`t want to close it off (it is 1/4 open) because they say they`ve had problems with horses simply igoring the lines and breaking through them. Otherwise I would certainly "unleash" him. Kai has the most problems at the canter - which someone else mentioned just yesterday, I think. I am sure it has to do with stretching - and once he`s streched then it has to do with him wanting to "let it all hang out". As they say here in Germany - wenn schon, denn schon - which means something like - while I`m at it I may as well really go for it. Keep trying - take it slow. I noticed Kai was more patient this week because he realized that I wasn`t planning on longing him forever - just 10 or 15 minutes. The next time we longed, he was much better, thinking, I`ll just let her swing that rope, this will be over in no time ! > -Original Message- > From: GAIL RUSSELL [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 17:31 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Longing > > This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have had similar problems longing. No where near figuring it all > out, but > working *without* longe line in a round pen or other enclosed space, > coupled > with clicker training to induce gait changes, might be a solution. > Alexandra Kurlanda does clicker training with her horses and has used > it to > actually improve her horse's gaits. The principle is BF Skinner's > behavioral psychology. Instead of rewarding by a release of pressure, > you > reward by giving a distinctive sound (people often use those little > "dime > store" frog clickers) which is *always* followed by a food reward. > Clicker > training is taking over the dog obedience world because it makes such > happy > performers. I've done a bit with Gunthar, no where near what I could > have > done. But he learns *very fast.* Took me 10 minutes to train him to > touch > the end of my whip - and he still remembers it months later with no > practice > in between. Alexandra talks about, among other things, a hard-to-shoe > horse > (read dangerous kicker) arriving at his stall door with his front foot > cranked up into position for trimming - just in case someone wanted to > trim > it. :) > > If there is interest I'll elaborate - not sure this is perfectly > appropriate > to a FJord list - except that clicker training works *very well* with > smart > inquisitive horses. > GAil > > At 04:58 PM 8/19/98 +0200, you wrote: > >This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >he, he...it´s so nice to see that other people too have problems with > >longing their fjords! Actually, longing is THE ONLY THING where Cider > has > >given me problems during his training! Everything else from being > tied up > >as a 5 months old to learning how to jump under rider this summer as > a 5 > >year old has worked like a charm, but longing...he just HATED it! He > would > >stop and try to come to me all the time and when I told him to keep > on > >moving he just stared at me with the are-you-NUTS?-look on his face, > then > >he pinned his ears back (that seldom happens, basically he´s a very > >cheerful personality) and continued on the circle, dragging his > hooves in > >the sand. > > > >Since he hated it so much, I actually stopped longing him and we > started to > >ride him instead. He liked that much more. But I thought that mabye I > >should make another try now when I´ve started to train dressage, it > would > >be good to be able to work him from the ground...mabye he will like > longing > >more now, one never knows. > > > >Regards > >Anneli > > > >At 02:33 1998-08-19 -0400, you wrote: > >>This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >>Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear > that > >>other > >>people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is > me, > >>I`m the > >>only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. > >>You m
RE: Longing
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks Ann - for your note on Longing. I am always grateful to hear that other people have experienced the same problems - I tend to think woe is me, I`m the only one, my pony hates me etc., etc. You mentioned different cultures - I have noted that people here in Germany - horseowners in particular - hardly ever admit that they have difficulties with their animals. In the past when I have spoken to others about my pony`s temperment on the longeline most people just look at me and go "oh. that should never happen. don`t let that happen." And of course, I would just lve to scream !!! So, thanks for your honesty !! > -Original Message- > From: Mark and Ann Restad [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 03:47 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: Longing > > This message is from: Mark and Ann Restad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > In response to Kristine Werner's experience longing her horse, I had > the > same problem when working with Dro/y this winter. We had a lot of > snow > and I was longing him in the only open area, which was not in any > enclosure. he also hated it and would buck and occasionally "make a > break for it" and get away. I got the impression that it is way too > boring for him- he loves to get out and see things. Anyone's comments > > would be appreciated but I wont be able to answer for a week as I am > heading to Nancy's tonight to look at a mare and spend a week. > One note in response to the recent discussion: we Americans especially > > have to be careful not to be ethnocentric and remember that other > people > live with many different circumstances in their lives that we > ourselves > have not experienced. One shouldn't look at one small point in a > culture and pass judgement without any more information than that one > fact. > thanks > Ann
RE: Longing...
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Oops ! Generally speaking, that is ! > -Original Message- > From: Ingrid Ivic [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Mittwoch, 19. August 1998 04:07 > To: Fjordhorse List > Subject: Longing... > > This message is from: Ingrid Ivic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hello Kristine and welcome! > > > > Compared to Hannoveraners and > > so on Kai is a real terror on the longe. > > > Oh boy! You've never met the Hannoverian I owned! :o) Ingrid
RE: Welcome to Christine
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Saskia -
I live near the "one" on the Main. I have also been to Leuven - about 15
years ago - I know it rather well, actually!
Belgium is a beautiful but smallish country - I really enjoyed myself
there.
You are right about the longing exercise. We do have a so-called
"round-pen" at our stall. The only thing is that
it is not fully closed - but as you said, you just have to find objects
of a larger proportion to seal off the area.
I am sure that Kai would run around me - why not ? Without that pesky
longing rope pulling at his soft head, life
is certainly more comfortable - there goes his reason for bucking. You
are right ! I am going to try that tonight !!
How old is your kitty ? Did you "break" her in yourself ?
> -Original Message-
> From: saskia [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Dienstag, 18. August 1998 14:08
> To: fjordenlijst
> Subject: Welcome to Christine
>
> This message is from: saskia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Welcome to the list Christine!!! Which Frankfurt do you live nearby,
> am
> Main or am Oder??? (The first makes you even closer a neighbour than
> the
> last, I live near Leuven, Belgium).
>
> As to longeing, did you try longeing without a longe? I always do that
>
> and it is much easier (especially for a very lazy and awkward person -
>
> myself). I made a sort of "ring" of 11 by 11 meters, put myself in the
>
> middle (I walk small cercles) and let Kitty run. First I used a
> longeing-whip, that I held behind her, higher to go quicker, lower to
> slow down, but now my arm is enough.
> It's a good exercise and not so boring when you put it full of games!
> For
> example, as soon as I duck down, Kitty knows she can come to me and
> get a
> hug or a cookie. So she keeps very attentive, always looking if I'm
> not
> preparing to duck...
> The book of Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling ("Tanzen Mit Pferden") was very
> helpful to me.
>
> Hope to hear more about you and Kai (nice name!),
>
> Saskia (and yes, it is raining and grey here in Belgium again!)
RE: Culling Fjords
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello, Saskia - in Germany it is also common to have horses slaughtered that just simply "don`t fill the bill" anymore - for whatever the reason. You can get up to DM 500 for your sickly or unwanted animal. I think that is disgusting, too, but there are so many ways in which human handling of God`s creatures is wrong and appalling. Breeding standards in Germany are also very stringent. I have heard that the French go so far as to even kill fjords that are born of a whitish or greyish color. Here, those are the most expensive ones !! > -Original Message- > From: saskia [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 18. August 1998 12:45 > To: fjordenlijst > Subject: Re: Culling Fjords > > This message is from: saskia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I just looked up what "culling" meant... until now I presumed it was > another word for "eating"... :-) > I must have missed some of the first, non-culinary postings! > As to culling, I agree about selecting the horses you breed. And I > agree > that geldings are very good promotors of the breed. I never would have > > bred Unna, because she had summer-eczema. And Sybren is growing out to > be > a very nice little stallion, but he will be a very nice gelding too. > The > question of gelding him or not is not yet the question (?). > As to putting animals to sleep, for me that is something you only do > with > deadly ill animals or animals that represent a danger for human > beings. > I was shocked to read on the Dutch horse-list that they consider it so > > normal to send wounded horses to the slaughterhouse, because that way > they get some money for the meat and "dead the horse will be anyway". > Well, in this matter everyone should decide for him/herself. > > Saskia
RE: Welcome to fjordhorse
This message is from: "Werner, Kristine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everybody - I`m new now to the Fjord Mailing List as of today and thought I would introduce myself and my pony. My name is Kristine and I live near Frankfurt, Germany. My horse`s name is Kai, from Kvest Halsnaes. He just turned four in May. I have been riding him and having him ridden since November of last year. What a joy he is !! But I must admit, as willing and sweet-natured as he is under saddle and going for walks, he hates to be longed ! I wonder if any of you have experienced the bucking and kicking Fjord horse trying with all his might to get out of doing this exercise. Compared to Hannoveraners and so on Kai is a real terror on the longe. I am wondering whether he will ever get used to it. I suppose it is boring and he thinks it is senseless - but I am convinced of it`s virtues. What do you think ? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Dienstag, 18. August 1998 10:51 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Welcome to fjordhorse > > -- > > Welcome to the fjordhorse mailing list! > > Please save this message for future reference. Thank you. > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > send the following command in email to > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > unsubscribe > > Or you can send mail to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> with the > following > command in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe fjordhorse > > or from another account, besides [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > unsubscribe fjordhorse [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > If you ever need to get in contact with the owner of the list, > (if you have trouble unsubscribing, or have questions about the > list itself) send email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> . > This is the general rule for most mailing lists when you need > to contact a human. > > [Last updated on: Thu May 28 15:33:33 1998] > > You may choose to receive "fjordhorse" in either digest format or as > individual messages. If you are currently receiving individual > messages and would prefer to receive a daily digest, send the > following command in e-mail to > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >set digest > > If on the other hand, you are currently receiving the digest format > and would prefer to receive individual messages, send the following > command in e-mail to > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >set nodigest > > "fjordhorse" is an open forum dedicated to the discussion of all > subjects relating to the Norwegian Fjord horse. The primary subject > of the list is the Fjord horse, but the list is open to the discussion > of any related equine issue. > > Typical subjects may include selection, breeding, care, training, and > use of Fjord horses. Postings of competitions and clinics, and "for > sale" ads relating to horses and equipment are welcome. Non-related > commercial ads, chain letters and flaming will not be tolerated. > > Personal experiences, discussions of training techniques, good advice > and pleasant conversation are always welcome here. View the list as > an opportunity to sit around the kitchen table with friends and > discuss Fjord horses over a pot of good coffee. > > Remember that people do take comments personally--that's what makes it > so fun to be with them. Before posting an angry response, sleep on > it. Go ahead and write it up before you forget what you want to say, > but don't hit the send button until the next day. Then reread what > you have written as if it were directed toward you. If you wouldn't > be hurt go ahead and send it. Otherwise you might want to reword your > message. Discussion and disagreement are accepted on this list, > derision is not. > > Even if you intend to mostly lurk on this list, please introduce > yourself when you first subscribe. It's fun for everyone to know > everyone else on the list. Tell the rest of us about yourself and > your horses. Where do you live? How many horses do you have? What > activities do you enjoy with your horse? And whatever else you think > the folks sitting around the virtual kitchen table would like to know. > > Saskia Schoofs from Belgium already has a Web site up and running to > compile a "who is who" from these introductions. You can view it at: > http://fjord.hypermart.net/mail/ > > To send a message to the list address it to: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > If you are replying to a message that has been previously posted just > hit the reply button on your mail program. I would remind you that if > you reply to a message, you can make others on the list happy by > making l
