Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-03 Thread Paul Dufresne
At least with fdisk /XO [Extended Options in user interface] on (set
at the end of fdisk.ini), we have access to functions to change type
of a partition in the interface.
Looking a bit in the code, there seems to be an option for extended
interrupt 13h functions.
And it seems to use (more) LBA in that case... sorry it is still quite unclear.
Functions in 'interface 2'.c use GetPartitionType in 'compute'.
There is also a LBA_Get_Partiontype function, that seems to switch
type 0xb(11) to 0xc(12).
Well, that's from memory, I am not anymore in front of my own computer.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Jerome E. Shidel Jr.

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 7:28 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> (I'll respond quickly here even though there's a billion follow-up
> responses already.)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
>>> wrote:
 
 I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
 
 Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
 There is a link to it on the FDI download page.
>>> 
>>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
>>> 256 MB .img).
>> 
>> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
>> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
>> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
>> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.
> 
> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
> separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
> smaller, so to those I have no complaints.
> 
 Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT
>>> 
>>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>>> unload it.   :-(
>> 
>> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
>> matter?
>> 
>> I will move it just for you. But, I’m curious why you really want to be able 
>> unload it.
>> 
>> So for the next release, I have set DOSLFN to load second to last.
>> Then finally, LBACACHE.
> 
> Sigh, no, I misunderstood that, sorry.
> 
> Of course you don't need to unload on the installer boot media. I just
> meant in general that it made no sense (to me) why you wouldn't at
> least give the user the option to unload later, if needed. It's easy
> to miss details like that, so I was just mentioning it for
> completeness.

No problem. I was a little perplexed as to why you were so insistent.
Now, it makes sense to why you kept bringing it up. Just as an 
fyi, I moved it on the boot media anyway. 

:-)

> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

(I'll respond quickly here even though there's a billion follow-up
responses already.)


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
>>>
>>> Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
>>> There is a link to it on the FDI download page.
>>
>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
>> 256 MB .img).
>
> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.

I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
smaller, so to those I have no complaints.

>>> Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT
>>
>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>> unload it.   :-(
>
> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
> matter?
>
> I will move it just for you. But, I’m curious why you really want to be able 
> unload it.
>
> So for the next release, I have set DOSLFN to load second to last.
> Then finally, LBACACHE.

Sigh, no, I misunderstood that, sorry.

Of course you don't need to unload on the installer boot media. I just
meant in general that it made no sense (to me) why you wouldn't at
least give the user the option to unload later, if needed. It's easy
to miss details like that, so I was just mentioning it for
completeness.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Paul Dufresne
Your suggestion to "fdisk /mbr:81" (81=D:) was making much sense to me
because the disk was having grub on it before I erase all with fdisk
to make place for FreeDOS. So yes, it made sense that grub being
installed in MBR might made me not having normal MBR.
But trying "fdisk /mbr:81" have not helped: still rebooting in loop.
I check the filesystem in Linux, mounted it, seems fine.

When booting RescueCD on my multiboot USB (that I am using to write my
email), using A) SuperGrub, it detects and shows the FreeDOS OS, but
when I tried to boot from it, was having just the cursor blinking
endlessly in upperleft.
That said, when in multiboot USB, sometimes thing are not exactly as
they should. Like trying to run the FreeDOS that is partr of RescueCD
was having a divide by 0 error before the prompt appears.

Unsure at all how to continue... maybe download latest rescueCD and
burn it on a DVD.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Eric Auer

Hi!

> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
> separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
> smaller, so to those I have no complaints.

FreeBasic has a rather cool QB compatibility mode and some
software in the FreeDOS distro is compiled with DJGPP, but
of course without the tons of add-ons available for DJGPP.

Not sure which coolness factor FreePascal has, but Pascal
certainly was a classic programming language of DOS users.

Cheers, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Jerome E. Shidel Jr.

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
>> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
>> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
>> separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
>> smaller, so to those I have no complaints.
> 
> FreeBasic has a rather cool QB compatibility mode and some
> software in the FreeDOS distro is compiled with DJGPP, but
> of course without the tons of add-ons available for DJGPP.
> 
> Not sure which coolness factor FreePascal has, but Pascal
> certainly was a classic programming language of DOS users.

I agree with Pascal being a classic and very traditional language and
even if it is not installed I would like to see it ship on the install
media. 

But, if Jim wants the USB and ISO to be as slim as possible (no extras) and
it doesn’t become part of ALL, I will sadly pull it without complaint. :-(

> 
> Cheers, Eric
> 
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Louis Santillan
I wouldn't think the LBA aware type would have kept your system from
booting.  I thought that only affected Win9x and IFS driver.

Glad you got it working anyways.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:

> >What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
> >aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.
> Yes, looks like you found the problem.
> I changed it in Linux, from b (W95 FAT32) to c (W95 FAT32 LBA).
> Then tried to boot my partition (that is now in GRUB since I just
> installed a Linux to the side of FreeDOS).
> It did not worked better than before. [just blinking cursor]
> But then I rebooted with my FreeDOS FDI-USB beta key, and ran fdisk.
> There I now saw (W95 FAT32 L[BA was missing].
> I DID NOT SAW ANY WAY TO CHANGE THE TYPE OF THE PARTITION IN FreeDOS
> FDISK!!
> So I reinstalled over.
> Was happy this time that fdisk or setup did not try to install it's
> own MBR so not to break my Linux Grub.
> And that time it boots fine.
>
> Looks like FreeDOS FDISK use type b when using FAT32, but should use
> type c to enable LBA!!
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:20 PM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:
>
>>What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
>>aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.
>
> Yes, looks like you found the problem.
>
> I DID NOT SAW ANY WAY TO CHANGE THE TYPE OF THE PARTITION IN FreeDOS FDISK!!
>
> Looks like FreeDOS FDISK use type b when using FAT32, but should use
> type c to enable LBA!!

I don't know how to force FDISK to set this correctly (or even fix this).

http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/fdisk.htm

"/XDo not use LBA partitions." (so it does know about LBA sometimes)

"[/SPEC:'type#'] Specifies the partition type number." (maybe this works??)

'/SMBR [drive#]  Saves the current MBR on 'drive#', into a file called
"boot.mbr".' (that could be useful)

...

But anyways, a quick double-check does show that BootMgr can "set
partition id" (hex), if needed. IIRC, that's the way that I manually
corrected mine, years ago.

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=bootmgr

There are presumably other ways too (wDE ??), but I don't know offhand.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Paul Dufresne
>What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
>aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.
Yes, looks like you found the problem.
I changed it in Linux, from b (W95 FAT32) to c (W95 FAT32 LBA).
Then tried to boot my partition (that is now in GRUB since I just
installed a Linux to the side of FreeDOS).
It did not worked better than before. [just blinking cursor]
But then I rebooted with my FreeDOS FDI-USB beta key, and ran fdisk.
There I now saw (W95 FAT32 L[BA was missing].
I DID NOT SAW ANY WAY TO CHANGE THE TYPE OF THE PARTITION IN FreeDOS FDISK!!
So I reinstalled over.
Was happy this time that fdisk or setup did not try to install it's
own MBR so not to break my Linux Grub.
And that time it boots fine.

Looks like FreeDOS FDISK use type b when using FAT32, but should use
type c to enable LBA!!

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Paul Dufresne
I have tried the latest FDI-USB.IMG and I would almost be happy with it.
Yes, I can now install in french fine.
Yes, fdisk now select the D: drive that is my hard disk.
Yes, all the installation goes fine.
Except when I reboot, it reboot in loop.
My hard drive is SATA did read it should works just fine because
FreeDOS use BIOS.
I tried to change from SATA1+2 to SATA 1 in BIOS but then my hard
drive disappeared, had to undo it.
Tried OS is not plug-and-play... did not help.
Tried removing Virtual extension, did not help.

I had chosen FAT32... and a primary partition of 4000 MB (of about 152000).
Thinking trying not to enable large disk...

This is my main machine... writing this from Live USB key.
Any suggestion? HP Pavillon A6000n (AMD 64).

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Paul Dufresne
Note that I still used 4000 Mb primary FAT32 (big drive?) partition.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Paul Dufresne
Ok, I open my box and literally found an old forgotten dusty
unconnected PATA 40Gb drive.
I connected it (after disconnecting SATA drive).
And reinstall FreeDOS from USB key.
Worked flawlessly this time.
At least a few seconds until I try to type 'help dir' or 'help' (as
suggested) which make the system hang... as it always did as far as I
remember.

So it seems that either FreeDOS have a problem with SATA drives, or
with big (150Gb) drives.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Paul Dufresne
Burn on a DVD latest SystemRescueCD but does the same as on my USB key:
-divide by zero exception when trying to use FreeDOS on the DVD
-SuperGrub just showing upperleft blinking cursor when booting SATA
149 GiB, FreeDOS partition

But discovered that HardwareDetectionTool was showing MBR as Grub2 v. 1.97...
So used install-mbr on SystemRescueCD to install 'Testdisk MBR' that
let's you choose which partition (1-4) to boot.
Well, seems to not reboot anymore, but having the blinking cursor
after 'MBR' showing on the console.

The SATA controller is an NVidia one... must chips are NVidia on that
motherboard.
Don't know if it can be linked to the isssue.

Don't know why 'fdisk /mbr:81 was not working... had verified that I
did not need :80 (C:). Maybe fast, but I had checked.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:
>
> Burn on a DVD latest SystemRescueCD but does the same as on my USB key:
> -divide by zero exception when trying to use FreeDOS on the DVD

Try F8 (single stepping) through your config, and disable any EMM386
or JEMMEX. See if that helps.

> -SuperGrub just showing upperleft blinking cursor when booting SATA
> 149 GiB, FreeDOS partition
>
> But discovered that HardwareDetectionTool was showing MBR as Grub2 v. 1.97...

What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.

BTW, "Grub2" and "1.9.7" sounds wrong. I assume this means you're
(only) using GRUB classic. It can't be hard to wipe that (stage1 ??),
can it?

> So used install-mbr on SystemRescueCD to install 'Testdisk MBR' that
> let's you choose which partition (1-4) to boot.
> Well, seems to not reboot anymore, but having the blinking cursor
> after 'MBR' showing on the console.

Have you ever successfully tried other methods of installing (DOS) to USB?

1). http://unetbootin.github.io/
2). http://rufus.akeo.ie/
3). http://joelinoff.com/blog/?p=431

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-02 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>>
>>> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
>>> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
>>> separately.
>>
>> Not sure which coolness factor FreePascal has, but Pascal
>> certainly was a classic programming language of DOS users.
>
> I agree with Pascal being a classic and very traditional language and
> even if it is not installed I would like to see it ship on the install
> media.
>
> But, if Jim wants the USB and ISO to be as slim as possible (no extras) and
> it doesn’t become part of ALL, I will sadly pull it without complaint. :-(

How sad can you be? They can still easily find it online. Let's be
honest, I'm not complaining that hard. It's not THAT important either
way.

I just dislike including 150 MB of developer stuff when I heavily
suspect that 99% of users will never need it. (And I prefer FPC more
than most, but it's just not crucial enough here.)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-01 Thread Jerome E. Shidel Jr.

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Paul Dufresne  > wrote:
> 
> I just wrote (DD in Linux) the FDI-USB .IMG file on an USB-KEY.
> Think this was my first try to boot FreeDOS on USB key.
> Boots fine (once adjusted in BIOS).
> 
> Suprise 1) Unable to select a language different than english.
> Others are shown, but key down does not move to others.
> Did not was able (or really try) to go around that.

Oops, sorry. I don’t know why I did it. Somehow, how I managed to remove a 
line from mkFDI.bat that dynamically generates that section of code for the
installer. Since, I only use English I don’t notice. Fixed it.

> 
> Surprise 2) FDISK was at first showing the C: as the USB-Key. (LABEL
> FDI-SETUP as I remember).
> But there is an option in FDISK to change drive. Worked well.
> I stopped there because I did not really want to install on that computer.

USB as drive C and install to D is fine. So far,
I’ve had two people tell me that booting on USB was C: and 
one that it was L:.  The new way FDI does the detection stuff 
should be fine. 

But, you are correct with the default for FDISK. So, added stuff
so FDISK would select D (drive 2) at start when USB is C:

I have made both changes and pushed the updates online for 
download at http://up.lod.bz/FDI 


> 
> Might try later for real on an other.
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-01 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
> I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
>
> Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
> There is a link to it on the FDI download page.

I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
256 MB .img).

> Extra (not BASE or ALL), uninstalled packages on USB image. (about 50 extra)

147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers. There aren't enough
active projects using the others to justify forcing it on all FreeDOS
downloaders. (I take it back, DJGPP *is* useful, but there are so many
"competing" versions that it's hard to know what to use sometimes.)

Unfortunately, anything you give here is either too much or too
minimal. Even limiting only to DJGPP mini-FAQ tools would be quite
large (well, especially since later GCC versions are even bigger).
What to do, stick to a classic like 3.46? Or my own home-rolled
"EZ-GCC v2" (2.95.3)?

Ugh, no easy answer. Without any obvious goal, I would just omit
everything except OW and NASM. Is anyone here (or elsewhere?) actively
fighting to keep others included here?? If not, then why include them?
Maybe I'm overthinking things (again).

> Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT

But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
unload it.   :-(

> TODO: Sufficient free space is not verified prior to installation.

Would this help?

http://ericauer.cosmodata.virtuaserver.com.br/soft/specials/free-disk-space-tester-freetest.zip

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-01 Thread Eric Auer

Hi :-)

>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks
>> to 256 MB .img).

> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.

The traditional answer would be to have a separate download which
contains only the BASE packages and whatever is needed to install,
such as UNZIP and the package manager :-) I would still like to
hear what the largest packages in FDI-USB are and which packages
of which size from Mateusz' 500 MB repository are still missing.

Having a separate download would make it easy for people to either
enjoy ALL Mateusz' packages on a 500+ MB size stick without having
to worry about DOS networking drivers (do you include ANY yet?) and
at the same time make things quick and easy for others who simply
want a basic install of DOS with a quick download :-)

>> 147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
>> NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
>> obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers.

Hm? Are the "obscures" large? Are FPC, FreeBasic, DJGPP obscure?

>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>> unload it.   :-(
> 
> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
> matter? 

Not really. Yet I agree that it is better to load FDAPM early ;-)

> The issue is not being able to check for available free space. I just don’t
> see it as really being worth the overhead and additional complexity.

>   FDI starts, tests if there is enough freespace for minimum install.
>   YES, continue, No, check if there would be enough if current version is 
> removed.
>   If not, stop telling user not enough space.

You could make it simpler: If there is enough space to install (make
a base / all distinction) without deleting anything, be happy. If you
have less space, warn the user: They MIGHT be able to install stuff,
because the install will overwrite some old versions with newer ones,
but they continue at own risk. Give the user a rough idea of free size.

>   If user wants to make a backup, make sure there will be enough room for 
> that
>   an the minimal install.

Can we assume that stuff is moved to backups, instead of adding backup
size to the amount of already used disk space?

>   Based on package selection, make sure there will be enough room for that
>   the backup.

I had the impression that you wanted to avoid individual package choices
to keep the install simple? Of course the package manager can always be
smart and ponder how much space is consumed by installing [list of some
packages] but for the moment, I guess knowing how large base / full are
should be enough to get a rough idea in the installer, not in fdnpkg :-)

> Or:   
>   Just test for Max install size + backup size.

Yep. And maybe have a separate BASE-only download: Less disk size used
and less download bandwidth used. Plus people can always install extra
stuff later using the package manager. Either by feeding it package ZIP
files or by getting DOS networking to work.

>> http://ericauer.cosmodata.virtuaserver.com.br/soft/specials/free-disk-space-tester-freetest.zip

A classic tool for your errorlevel based disk space usage checks ;-)

Cheers, Eric



PS: It is a bit weird that the current image has to overwrite the whole
stick, which often is a lot larger than 256 MB. How about alternatives
that you copy to already FAT formatted sticks and a tool to SYS & MBR?
I know, FAT is less popular today, but this would be nice for those who
do not want to mess up stick partitions or do not know how to redo them.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-01 Thread Jerome E. Shidel Jr.

A side note to ALL, regarding what packages are included.

There is really no reason you cannot make your own personal customized FDI 
based release.

Two ways to do it.

The easy way:

For Floppy Image, just modify the package list files 
A:\FDSETUP\SETUP\*.LST. 
It will then include or exclude them. 

For USB image, same as above and also add and remove the packages.

The harder, but much better way, 

Create a Virtual Machine in VMware Fusion or other compatible Virtual 
Machine.

Create, two virtual flat hard disk images. First will be for the USB 
image. Second
 is a TEMP drive. Also, add a virtual CD and virtual floppy.

Boot the latest FDI floppy image. Exit the installer.

FDISK and Format both Hard Drives. (all re/boots should be done from 
FDI floppy)

Download FDI source from github and v8power tools from up.lod.bz.

Place FDI source files in D:\FDI

Place V8Power Binaries in D:\FDI\V8POWER

Create a TEMP directory on drive D: Set the Temp:

Edit the package list files in D:\FDI\SETTINGS

Change to D:\FDI

Insert repository CD image.

run mkfdi.bat

(This will turn the floppy in drive A: into the latest  version)

run mkfdi.bat usb

(this with turn drive C into the USB image)

Maybe, I will do a youtube video to demonstrate the second method. 

With the second version, you slim down or really beef up the install.
Make nearly any size USB stick. Etc.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-01 Thread Jerome E. Shidel Jr.

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 7:55 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi :-)
> 
>>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks
>>> to 256 MB .img).
> 
>> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
>> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
>> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
>> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.
> 
> The traditional answer would be to have a separate download which
> contains only the BASE packages and whatever is needed to install,
> such as UNZIP and the package manager :-) I would still like to
> hear what the largest packages in FDI-USB are and which packages
> of which size from Mateusz' 500 MB repository are still missing.

Many things are not included. 

Here are the current included Extra packages that are included. But,
not installed with either BASE or ALL. At present, they have not all
been verified as being able to ship with FreeDOS.

> 
> Having a separate download would make it easy for people to either
> enjoy ALL Mateusz' packages on a 500+ MB size stick without having
> to worry about DOS networking drivers (do you include ANY yet?) and
> at the same time make things quick and easy for others who simply
> want a basic install of DOS with a quick download :-)

I do get what you are saying here, 

I really don’t have the time to go through every package in his repository 
to verify they are appropriately licensed to be be included with the FreeDOS.

  1.0M Dec  4 09:36 ansimat.zip
   23K Dec  4 09:40 b64.zip
  477K Apr  5  2009 biew.zip
   89K Aug  7  2013 cpied.zip
  690K Apr  5  2009 curl.zip
  1.5M Dec  5 04:31 djgpp.zip
  5.0M Dec  4 10:11 djgpp_bn.zip
  414K Dec  5 04:33 djgpp_bs.zip
  4.7M Dec  5 04:33 djgpp_db.zip
  666K Dec  4 10:14 djgpp_fq.zip
  191K Dec  4 10:15 djgpp_fx.zip
   12M Dec  4 10:16 djgpp_gc.zip
  270K Dec  4 10:19 djgpp_mk.zip
   11M Dec  4 10:20 djgpp_ob.zip
  6.0M Dec  4 10:21 djgpp_rh.zip
  1.0M Dec  5 04:33 djgpp_tx.zip
  368K Dec  4 10:24 dos32a.zip
   29K Sep 22  2012 dosidle.zip
  376K Feb 17  2013 fasm.zip
   14M Dec  4 06:01 fbc.zip
  856K Dec  4 10:53 fbc_help.zip
   37M Dec  4 11:03 fpc.zip
  4.8K Dec 30  2008 gcdrom.zip
  231K Feb  1  2013 grep.zip
  1.4M Dec  4 11:15 jwasm.zip
  303K Feb  1  2013 less.zip
  139K Jun 17  2015 md5sum.zip
  1000 Jun 22  2015 mtcp.zip
  2.5M Jan  4 13:36 nasm.zip
  3.3M Dec  4 13:50 opengem.zip
   14M Jul 27  2014 ow.zip
  1.3M Dec  4 06:27 ozonegui.zip
  169K Apr  5  2009 part.zip
   26M Dec  4 13:57 perl.zip
  583K Dec 27 13:03 pgme.zip
  181K Nov 29 11:22 picosntp.zip
  597K Dec  4 13:35 picotcp.zip
  638K Jun 23  2013 ping.zip
  1.1M Dec  4 13:49 rsync.zip
   23K Feb 22  2009 search.zip
  3.8K Sep 22  2012 slowdos.zip
   28K Aug 16  2013 tinyaes.zip
  1.9M Dec  4 06:58 unrtf.zip
  1.9M Dec  4 12:24 upx.zip
   19K May 10  2015 utf8tocp.zip
  140K Jul 16  2013 vmsmount.zip
  551K Dec  5 04:36 vncview.zip
  2.3M Dec  4 07:05 wget.zip
   40K Apr  4  2009 xcdrom.zip
  180K Apr  5  2009 xfdisk.zip

> 
>>> 147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
>>> NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
>>> obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers.
> 
> Hm? Are the "obscures" large? Are FPC, FreeBasic, DJGPP obscure?
> 
>>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>>> unload it.   :-(
>> 
>> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
>> matter? 
> 
> Not really. Yet I agree that it is better to load FDAPM early ;-)
> 
>> The issue is not being able to check for available free space. I just don’t
>> see it as really being worth the overhead and additional complexity.
> 
>>  FDI starts, tests if there is enough freespace for minimum install.
>>  YES, continue, No, check if there would be enough if current version is 
>> removed.
>>  If not, stop telling user not enough space.
> 
> You could make it simpler: If there is enough space to install (make
> a base / all distinction) without deleting anything, be happy. If you
> have less space, warn the user: They MIGHT be able to install stuff,
> because the install will overwrite some old versions with newer ones,
> but they continue at own risk. Give the user a rough idea of free size.
> 
>>  If user wants to make a backup, make sure there will be enough room for 
>> that
>>  an the minimal install.
> 
> Can we assume that stuff is moved to backups, instead of adding backup
> size to the amount of already used disk space?
> 
>>  Based on package selection, make sure there will be enough room for that
>>  the backup.
> 
> I had the impression that you wanted to avoid individual package choices
> to keep the install simple? Of course the package manager can always be
> smart and ponder how much space is consumed by installing [list of some
> packages] but for the moment, I guess knowing how large 

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-01 Thread Jerome E. Shidel Jr.

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
> wrote:
>> 
>> I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
>> 
>> Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
>> There is a link to it on the FDI download page.
> 
> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
> 256 MB .img).

Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.

> 
>> Extra (not BASE or ALL), uninstalled packages on USB image. (about 50 extra)
> 
> 147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
> NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
> obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers. There aren't enough
> active projects using the others to justify forcing it on all FreeDOS
> downloaders. (I take it back, DJGPP *is* useful, but there are so many
> "competing" versions that it's hard to know what to use sometimes.)
> 
> Unfortunately, anything you give here is either too much or too
> minimal. Even limiting only to DJGPP mini-FAQ tools would be quite
> large (well, especially since later GCC versions are even bigger).
> What to do, stick to a classic like 3.46? Or my own home-rolled
> "EZ-GCC v2" (2.95.3)?
> 
> Ugh, no easy answer. Without any obvious goal, I would just omit
> everything except OW and NASM. Is anyone here (or elsewhere?) actively
> fighting to keep others included here?? If not, then why include them?
> Maybe I'm overthinking things (again).

I hear you there. If the EXTRA stuff was completely removed, their
would be complaints over not just putting them on the install media.
If I leave them in, complaints about total size of the image.

So, I’ll try to pick something in the middle to make everybody unhappy.

Just kidding :-)

> 
>> Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT
> 
> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
> unload it.   :-(

But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it matter? 

I will move it just for you. But, I’m curious why you really want to be able 
unload it.

So for the next release, I have set DOSLFN to load second to last. 
Then finally, LBACACHE.

> 
>> TODO: Sufficient free space is not verified prior to installation.
> 
> Would this help?

The issue is not being able to check for available free space. I just don’t
see it as really being worth the overhead and additional complexity.

example:

FDI starts, tests if there is enough freespace for minimum install.
YES, continue, No, check if there would be enough if current version is 
removed.
If not, stop telling user not enough space.

If user wants to make a backup, make sure there will be enough room for 
that
an the minimal install.

Based on package selection, make sure there will be enough room for that
the backup.

With all appropriate screens, message and such in multiple languages.

Or: 
Just test for Max install size + backup size.

Or: 
Just note at download time, full installation + backup will require NNN 
mb of free 
space. 

> 
> http://ericauer.cosmodata.virtuaserver.com.br/soft/specials/free-disk-space-tester-freetest.zip
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

2016-02-01 Thread Paul Dufresne
I just wrote (DD in Linux) the FDI-USB .IMG file on an USB-KEY.
Think this was my first try to boot FreeDOS on USB key.
Boots fine (once adjusted in BIOS).

Suprise 1) Unable to select a language different than english.
Others are shown, but key down does not move to others.
Did not was able (or really try) to go around that.

Surprise 2) FDISK was at first showing the C: as the USB-Key. (LABEL
FDI-SETUP as I remember).
But there is an option in FDISK to change drive. Worked well.
I stopped there because I did not really want to install on that computer.

Might try later for real on an other.

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