Re: [VOTE] Accept Polaris into the ASF Incubator

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Best,
Dave

> On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:26 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Following the discussion about Polaris
> (https://lists.apache.org/thread/ymz26dr3bzldbntdgpctbtkb787x311d),
> and after updating the proposal based on comments, I would like to
> start the formal vote to accept Polaris into the ASF Incubator.
> 
> As reminder, this is the Polaris Proposal:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/PolarisProposal
> 
> Please cast your vote:
> [ ] +1, accept Polaris into the ASF Incubator
> [ ] 0, I don't care either way
> [ ] -1, do not accept Polaris into the ASF Incubator, because ...
> 
> The vote will run for one week starting from today.
> 
> Thanks !
> Regards
> JB
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] PolarisProposal to the incubator

[Dave Fisher]

> On Aug 1, 2024, at 7:23 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> My issue is not that this is a single-vendor project or that people have been 
> recognised for non-code contributions - both are fine. I would suggest that 
> the project slims down the initial committer list and not split it into PPMC 
> and committers. As part of the incubating process, you can vote in new 
> committers and PPMC members for their contributions.

I suppose that the initial non-ppmc committers can be voted onto the ppmc. To 
the IPMC I think that the growth to measure is the people beyond those on this 
list. But as the saying goes its “six of one and half dozen of another”.

Best,
Dave

> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
> 
>> On 2 Aug 2024, at 3:33 am, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Dave,
>> 
>> Thanks for your message.
>> 
>> I'm a bit confused now: it seems that we have a consensus that the
>> Polaris proposal is solid and correct (according to the number of
>> positive feedback in this discussion so far).
>> 
>> Justin expressed concerns, asking to update the proposal. As said, I
>> understand the comment, and would be happy to change the proposal.
>> 
>> Who's having the same concern and request to change the proposal ?
>> Should we move forward to a vote with the current proposal as Dave proposed ?
>> 
>> I don't want to frustrate anyone here. I have the feeling that if I
>> don't change the proposal, at least Justin would not be happy, and, on
>> the other hand, if I change the proposal, others would not be happy.
>> So, I'm open to suggestions.
>> 
>> I think the Polaris proposal is solid, the contributions (code and non
>> code) are there, the community is small but eager to grow (and that's
>> the purpose of the incubator).
>> 
>> Regards
>> JB
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 6:39 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> 
>>>> In short, this seems to me (and I could be wrong) like a project mostly 
>>>> from a single vendor, but the proposal has been made to make it look like 
>>>> more people are involved. It may well be that these people will be 
>>>> involved, but I’d prefer if the project was upfront about this and added 
>>>> committers the usual way during incubation.
>>> 
>>> When and where should a “single vendor” collaborate on a common code 
>>> project? If we block “single vendor” projects from Incubation then it’s 
>>> time to start one of our periodic the Incubator is broken discussions.
>>> 
>>> The Incubator has many retired podlings that failed to form a community. 
>>> That went from 3 or 4 to 1 or 0 community members. One example was 
>>> ODFToolkit which came in at the same time as OpenOffice.org. ODFToolkit 
>>> lingered for about 7 or 8 years. OpenOffice.org had an unusual anyone can 
>>> signup to be an Initial Committer which brought the number to 73! As the 
>>> current VP, OpenOffice I would not be wrong to say that the project would 
>>> be in the Attic if that approach were not taken.
>>> 
>>>> In short, the initial commit list looks problematic to me.
>>> 
>>> Podlings and PMCs are not one size fits all.
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> P.S. The repo landing page/readme has some ASF trademark issues that would 
>>>> be good to address.
>>> 
>>> That is part of Incubation.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] PolarisProposal to the incubator

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Justin,

> In short, this seems to me (and I could be wrong) like a project mostly from 
> a single vendor, but the proposal has been made to make it look like more 
> people are involved. It may well be that these people will be involved, but 
> I’d prefer if the project was upfront about this and added committers the 
> usual way during incubation.

When and where should a “single vendor” collaborate on a common code project? 
If we block “single vendor” projects from Incubation then it’s time to start 
one of our periodic the Incubator is broken discussions.

The Incubator has many retired podlings that failed to form a community. That 
went from 3 or 4 to 1 or 0 community members. One example was ODFToolkit which 
came in at the same time as OpenOffice.org. ODFToolkit lingered for about 7 or 
8 years. OpenOffice.org had an unusual anyone can signup to be an Initial 
Committer which brought the number to 73! As the current VP, OpenOffice I would 
not be wrong to say that the project would be in the Attic if that approach 
were not taken.

> In short, the initial commit list looks problematic to me.

Podlings and PMCs are not one size fits all.

> 
> P.S. The repo landing page/readme has some ASF trademark issues that would be 
> good to address.

That is part of Incubation. 

Best,
Dave


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Re: [DISCUSS] PolarisProposal to the incubator

[Dave Fisher]

> On Jul 31, 2024, at 6:56 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> I understand your comment, and it's important to me.
>> If it's a concern for you, I'm happy to rework the initial committer
>> list with the team (also removing PPMC list to use the default layout)
>> and grow the PPMC/committers when in the incubator.
> 
> I think that would be in the best interests of the project. That way, you 
> would have a larger pool of people to add during graduation when they do make 
> contributions and recognise merit. The final composition of the PMC can be 
> decided on graduation.

I’m happy with JBO’s explanation about the PPMC/Initial Committers split. I 
think that their plan is fine. Incubation is all about proving the growth and 
the Polaris community will or will not grow from their their chosen starting 
point.

They have put thought into their plans and I say let’s VOTE already!

Best,
Dave


> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
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Re: [DISCUSS] PolarisProposal to the incubator

[Dave Fisher]

> On Jul 30, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> That's a good question. The main reason is because we wanted people
> with Apache experience in the PPMC to mentor the committers and
> contributors heading to PPMC as well.
> Also, the initial committers worked closely with PPMC guidance
> (explaining the ICLA, good practice, etc).
> So, we wanted to have PPMC acting more as mentor (both technically but
> also with their Apache experience) with committers.

That makes sense. Are any of the proposed PPMC members also ASF Members and/or 
potentially future Mentors?

> If it's problematic, we can start only with the PPMC group and invite
> new committers/PPMC members during incubation period.

No problem. It will actually provide the Mentors and later the IPMC additional 
data to see if the PPMC is properly growing the PPMC and Committer base.

Best,
Dave

> 
> Regards
> JB
> 
> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 8:19 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi JB,
>> 
>> An interesting project that looks pretty mature.
>> 
>> I’m curious about the split between Initial PPMC and initial Committer. In 
>> the usual case a new podling will have all of the Initial Committers on the 
>> PPMC. Can you tell us why this is not the case with Polaris?
>> 
>> Best,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Jul 30, 2024, at 10:33 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> We would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator: Polaris.
>>> 
>>> Polaris is a catalog for data lakes. It provides new levels of choice,
>>> flexibility and control over data, with full enterprise security and
>>> Apache Iceberg interoperability across a multitude of engines and
>>> infrastructure. Polaris builds on standards such as those created by
>>> Apache Iceberg, providing the following benefits for the ecosystem:
>>> * Multi-engine interoperability over a single copy of data,
>>> eliminating the need for moving and copying data across different
>>> engines and catalogs.
>>> * An interoperable security model providing a unified authorization
>>> layer independent from the engines processing analytical tables.
>>> * For multi-catalog scenarios, a unified catalog level view of data
>>> across multiple catalogs via catalog notification integrations.
>>> * The ability to host Polaris Catalog on the infrastructure of your choice.
>>> 
>>> Here is the proposal:
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/PolarisProposal
>>> 
>>> Comments and feedback are welcome.
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> Regards
>>> JB
>>> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] PolarisProposal to the incubator

[Dave Fisher]

Hi JB,

An interesting project that looks pretty mature.

I’m curious about the split between Initial PPMC and initial Committer. In the 
usual case a new podling will have all of the Initial Committers on the PPMC. 
Can you tell us why this is not the case with Polaris?

Best,
Dave

> On Jul 30, 2024, at 10:33 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> We would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator: Polaris.
> 
> Polaris is a catalog for data lakes. It provides new levels of choice,
> flexibility and control over data, with full enterprise security and
> Apache Iceberg interoperability across a multitude of engines and
> infrastructure. Polaris builds on standards such as those created by
> Apache Iceberg, providing the following benefits for the ecosystem:
> * Multi-engine interoperability over a single copy of data,
> eliminating the need for moving and copying data across different
> engines and catalogs.
> * An interoperable security model providing a unified authorization
> layer independent from the engines processing analytical tables.
> * For multi-catalog scenarios, a unified catalog level view of data
> across multiple catalogs via catalog notification integrations.
> * The ability to host Polaris Catalog on the infrastructure of your choice.
> 
> Here is the proposal:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/PolarisProposal
> 
> Comments and feedback are welcome.
> 
> Thanks!
> Regards
> JB
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Retire Apache Liminal podling

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

> On Jul 11, 2024, at 6:41 AM, Ayush Saxena  wrote:
> 
> +1 (Binding)
> 
> -Ayush
> 
>> On 11 Jul 2024, at 6:50 PM, Xuanwo  wrote:
>> 
>> +1 binding. Good luck after retiring.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, at 21:16, PJ Fanning wrote:
>>> +1 binding - looks like the right decision based on activity levels
>>> 
 On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 at 13:50, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  
 wrote:
 
 Hi folks,
 
 Based on the discussion/vote on the podling dev mailing list
 (https://lists.apache.org/thread/yo1xgqvwsl28ylsgmhjpz3obczhnhbll), I
 would like to call for a vote to retire Apache Liminal podling.
 
 The voting will last for at least one week to ensure that everyone has
 time to express their opinions.
 
 Please vote accordingly:
 
 [ ] +1 Approve
 [ ] +0 No opinion
 [ ] -1 Disapprove with a reason
 
 Thanks,
 Regards
 JB
 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> Xuanwo
>> 
>> https://xuanwo.io/
>> 
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Re: [QUESTION] Can we use an AGPL components [minio] in OpenServerless?

[Dave Fisher]

HI -

The first place to go is to check on license availability is the legal resolved 
page[1]. There you can learn the various classes of dependencies as well as 
resolved issues about licenses that have already discussed on 
legal-disc...@apache.org

[1] https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html

Best,
Dave

> On Jul 5, 2024, at 7:11 AM, tison  wrote:
> 
>> an optional dependency
> 
> I second Justin's opinion, while "an opt dep" generally means: if you
> use it only for test, it should be fine; if you support user to self
> deploy or get a provision by themselves, and use your ALv2 licensed
> SDK to connect to it, it should be fine.
> 
> But if you'd like to bundle the source form or object form of minio
> (AGPLv3 licensed work), then the situation would be complex.
> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> Justin Mclean  于2024年7月5日周五 07:06写道：
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I would ask legal-disc...@apache.org, but it would not be allowed unless it 
>> is an optional dependency. However, it depends on the exact details.
>> 
>> Kind Regards,
>> Justin
>> 
>>> On 5 Jul 2024, at 6:45 pm, Michele Sciabarra  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If this is not the right place to ask this question please ignore it and
>>> let me know where I should ask.
>>> 
>>> We are starting the OpenServerless project and checking licenses.
>>> 
>>> We have one component in our project, Minio, which is AGPL Licensed.
>>> 
>>> We know AGPL is not to be used in Apache Code but here we really do not
>>> link nor change it, we just use it and access through their API as a
>>> generic S3 storage.
>>> 
>>> We do not even use their library to access it, we use the AWS SDK for
>>> generic S3.
>>> 
>>> My understanding of the AGPL is: we have to provide the code of it and any
>>> modification EVEN if it is accessed through the network. This is fine, we
>>> are complying with the license providing a downloadable tarball of the
>>> exact version we are using.
>>> 
>>> Aside from that, can we use it in OpenServerless? It just deploys a minio
>>> component, it does not modify it in any way.
>>> 
>>> Please advise...
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Michele Sciabarrà - msciaba...@apache.org - linkedin.com/in/msciab
>>> Apache OpenServerless Founder - reddit.com/r/openserverless
>>> Apache OpenWhisk PMC member - Author Learning Apache OpenWhisk
>>> <https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/learning-apache-openwhisk/9781492046158/>
>> 
>> 
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Re: Bylaws != Guidelines

[Dave Fisher]

Top post, but if my memory serves me properly Guidelines was used because the 
ASF’s ByLaws - https://www.apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html - must not be 
overridden by project “bylaws”.

Best,
Dave

> On Jul 3, 2024, at 12:35 PM, Carl Steinbach  wrote:
> 
> In 2018, Justin McLean led an effort to draft a set of project bylaws that
> a) apply to projects that don't have bylaws and b) serve as a convenient
> starting point for projects that are drafting their own bylaws. This effort
> ultimately resulted in the Default Project Guidelines [1] document
> located on the Incubator wiki. One change that didn't trigger any
> discussion at the time [2] was the decision to use the word "guideline"
> instead of "bylaw." This strikes me as odd since there is a major
> substantive difference between the meaning of these two words.
> 
> Here's how the two words are defined in the Cambridge Dictionary:
> 
> - Bylaw: "a rule that GOVERNS the members of an organization." [3]
> [emphasis added]
> 
> - Guideline: "information intended to advise people on how something SHOULD
> BE done or what something SHOULD BE." [4] [emphasis added]
> 
> Wikipedia, while not an authoritative source, provides useful context on
> how these terms are used in practice:
> 
> - "A bylaw ... is a set of rules or law established by an organization or
> community so as to regulate itself, as allowed or provided for by some
> higher authority." [5]
> 
> - "A guideline is similar to a rule, but are legally less binding as
> justified deviations are possible." [6]
> 
> I am neither a lawyer nor a lexicographer, but it seems clear that a
> guideline carries no more weight than an officially approved suggestion,
> while a bylaw is a binding rule. While it's up to each PMC to decide
> whether they want to adopt a set of non-binding suggestions that SHOULD BE
> [7] followed or a set of binding laws that MUST BE followed, I think it's
> important for the IPMC to clarify that the former are called guidelines,
> the latter are called bylaws, and that PMCs need to be aware of the
> difference.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> - Carl
> 
> [1]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/Default+Project+Guidelines
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/h15qjp35ghg446xr5bnmmlg06p3hdoj9
> [3] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/bylaw
> [4] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/guideline
> [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=By-law=1215430864
> [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guideline=1185185478
> [7] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2119


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Re: PMC is a committee

[Dave Fisher]

> On Jul 3, 2024, at 10:36 AM, John Gemignani  wrote:
> 
> I do believe that you spelled it incorrectly, it is bikeshedding, one word.
> 
> And, shouldn't it be, PMCM or PMCm? That makes more sense.

That’s what I’m thinking too. Which makes the incubator versions PPMCM or PPMCm.

Or, horrible joke follows: if you want to go all Roman numeral / Dewey decimal 
system - PP.1900 for PPMC members and PP.100 for PPMC - let’s etch that in 
stone :-D and/or put it on the shelf.

> 
> john
> 
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:32 AM Craig Russell  wrote:
> 
>> As long as we are bike shedding:
>> 
>> We have PMC: Project Management Committee
>> PPMC: Podling Project Management Committee
>> MPMC: Member, Project Management Committee
>> 
>> Craig
>> 
>>> On Jul 2, 2024, at 23:52, Christofer Dutz 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I mean … I think I have never really been confused if someone used “PMC”
>> or “PMC member” as from the context it was clear.
>>> What however I really hate to see in emails is people using short forms
>> LMAA, WTF, IANAL, STFU, … this list is long and obviously I listed the ones
>> I knew.
>>> Quite often when people use these short forms, I feel a bit excluded and
>> have to search or ask what they mean, so if we freak out about people using
>> the short form PMC, then I would also argue to freak out on using other
>> short forms ;-)
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> Von: Yuanbo Liu 
>>> Datum: Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2024 um 05:24
>>> An: general@incubator.apache.org 
>>> Betreff: Re: PMC is a committee
>>> Also it's driving me crazy to see native speakers saying "...not...no
>>> more". Teachers tell me it is supposed to be "any more"..
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:03 AM tison  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> ... and yes. For non-native speakers, it's possible to feel less
>>>> uncomfortable to use "PMC" as an abbr. to PMC members. Just .. as an
>>>> opaque term.
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> tison.
>>>> 
>>>> Xuanwo  于2024年7月2日周二 19:56写道：
>>>>> 
>>>>> This thread reminds me of tison's proposal that use "Maintainer"
>> instead
>>>> of "PMC Member".
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024, at 10:04, Jiacai Liu wrote:
>>>>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong
>>>>>>> thing *or*
>>>>>>> get into bad habits.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thank John for your kindly understanding.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also as a non-native English speaker, when I see abbreviation like
>>>>>> PMC,
>>>>>> my first insight is this word could be used on its own, `PMC
>>>>>> member` looks a little redundancy for me...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> on Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 08:50:45 AM +0800, John Gemignani wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My 2 cents as being a PMC member and once part of incubation,...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To be honest, I've never really paid much attention when someone
>>>>>>> stated
>>>>>>> they're a PMC. I knew what was meant and just auto corrected it
>>>>>>> in my head.
>>>>>>> I have used, without fully thinking about it, PMC as, "I am a
>>>>>>> PMC" as well.
>>>>>>> When I meant, or should have meant, "I am a PMC member", and I'm
>>>>>>> a native
>>>>>>> English speaker.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As was mentioned, people from different cultures might have
>>>>>>> different ways
>>>>>>> of using a term like PMC. I just don't feel that getting upset
>>>>>>> over,
>>>>>>> arguably an innocuous misuse, engenders community.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong
>>>>>>> thing *or*
>>>>>>> get into bad habits.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Again, my 2 cents.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> john
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher 
>>&

Re: PMC is a committee

[Dave Fisher]

> On Jul 2, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Christofer Dutz  
> wrote:
> 
> I mean … I think I have never really been confused if someone used “PMC” or 
> “PMC member” as from the context it was clear.
> What however I really hate to see in emails is people using short forms LMAA, 
> WTF, IANAL, STFU, … this list is long and obviously I listed the ones I knew.
> Quite often when people use these short forms, I feel a bit excluded and have 
> to search or ask what they mean, so if we freak out about people using the 
> short form PMC, then I would also argue to freak out on using other short 
> forms ;-)

No disrespect but doesn’t Deutsch combine words to make longer words so that 
PMC Member should according to Google Translate be "Mitglied des 
Projektmanagementausschusses”?! Acronyms nein! Composition ja! Verzeihen Sie 
mir meine kleine aber!

Best,
Dave
> 
> Chris
> 
> Von: Yuanbo Liu 
> Datum: Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2024 um 05:24
> An: general@incubator.apache.org 
> Betreff: Re: PMC is a committee
> Also it's driving me crazy to see native speakers saying "...not...no
> more". Teachers tell me it is supposed to be "any more"..
> 
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:03 AM tison  wrote:
> 
>> ... and yes. For non-native speakers, it's possible to feel less
>> uncomfortable to use "PMC" as an abbr. to PMC members. Just .. as an
>> opaque term.
>> 
>> Best,
>> tison.
>> 
>> Xuanwo  于2024年7月2日周二 19:56写道：
>>> 
>>> This thread reminds me of tison's proposal that use "Maintainer" instead
>> of "PMC Member".
>>> 
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024, at 10:04, Jiacai Liu wrote:
>>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong
>>>>> thing *or*
>>>>> get into bad habits.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank John for your kindly understanding.
>>>> 
>>>> Also as a non-native English speaker, when I see abbreviation like
>>>> PMC,
>>>> my first insight is this word could be used on its own, `PMC
>>>> member` looks a little redundancy for me...
>>>> 
>>>> on Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 08:50:45 AM +0800, John Gemignani wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> My 2 cents as being a PMC member and once part of incubation,...
>>>>> 
>>>>> To be honest, I've never really paid much attention when someone
>>>>> stated
>>>>> they're a PMC. I knew what was meant and just auto corrected it
>>>>> in my head.
>>>>> I have used, without fully thinking about it, PMC as, "I am a
>>>>> PMC" as well.
>>>>> When I meant, or should have meant, "I am a PMC member", and I'm
>>>>> a native
>>>>> English speaker.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As was mentioned, people from different cultures might have
>>>>> different ways
>>>>> of using a term like PMC. I just don't feel that getting upset
>>>>> over,
>>>>> arguably an innocuous misuse, engenders community.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong
>>>>> thing *or*
>>>>> get into bad habits.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Again, my 2 cents.
>>>>> 
>>>>> john
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Tison,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’m sympathetic as well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2024, at 5:11 PM, tison 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Greg,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I saw this kind of thread many times, and I also corrected it
>>>>>>> dozens
>>>>>>> of times. Actually, this is part of the reason for [1]
>>>>>>> ("Maintainer"
>>>>>>> as an alias of PMC Member?).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That quickly turned into a not very sympathetic response from
>>>>>> most. An
>>>>>> easy what to name the Bikeshed. I think that most of our group

Re: PMC is a committee

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Tison,

I’m sympathetic as well.

> On Jul 2, 2024, at 5:11 PM, tison  wrote:
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> I saw this kind of thread many times, and I also corrected it dozens
> of times. Actually, this is part of the reason for [1] ("Maintainer"
> as an alias of PMC Member?).
> 
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw

That quickly turned into a not very sympathetic response from most. An easy 
what to name the Bikeshed. I think that most of our group are people whose 
second language is python, java, or fortran and their first language is some 
version of English.

> 
> Somehow, I share the sympathy for non-native speakers to make an
> analogy between committer and "PMC" since they're all one-word
> phrases.

Maybe explain it from your perspective as a speaker of Mandarin (or 
Cantonese?). How does the phrase Committee Member translate compared to 
Committee.

Best,
Dave
> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> Greg Stein  于2024年7月2日周二 17:05写道：
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I am getting really tired of seeing people refer to *MEMBERS* of a PMC as
>> "PMCs".
>> 
>> PMC stands for Project Management Committee.
>> 
>> You have MEMBERS of that PMC.
>> 
>> People are never to be called a PMC, nor a group of them as PMCs. People
>> are not committees. The acronym "PMC" is short for a committee, not a
>> person.
>> 
>> Please stop the confusion. Teach the community how to use the proper terms.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Greg
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Accept OpenServerless into the ASF incubator

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Best,
Dave

> On Jun 11, 2024, at 8:31 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2024 at 10:35 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré  
> wrote:
>> ...Following the discussion about OpenServerless [1], I'm starting a vote
>> to accept OpenServerless into the ASF incubator...
> 
> +1
> 
> -Bertrand (Incubator PMC member)
> 
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Re: What is sufficient Incubation notification for Git repos?

[Dave Fisher]

I made the following comment on the PR, but will include it here as well.

> Looks reasonable and points to the important detail. I would only add that if 
> the podling is releasing with DISCLAIMER-WIP that the linked DISCLAIMER 
> should be the DISCLAIMER-WIP with that added information.

Best,
Dave

> On May 25, 2024, at 1:28 AM, tison  wrote:
> 
> OK. My major intention is to sync the discussion to the list. If "lazy
> consensus" is too eager to use, I'm OK to make it clear that it's still
> encouraged for everyone on the list to give more inputs :D
> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> 
> sebb  于2024年5月25日周六 16:26写道：
> 
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 at 09:10, tison  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A lazy consensus is met at [1].
>> 
>> Sorry, but I don't think it is correct to to use that designation here.
>> 
>> I don't think the discussion has been open long enough to say that
>> consensus has been achieved, nor was there an explicit call for
>> opinions.
>> All one can say is that no objections have yet been raised so far.
>> 
>>> I support Justin's opinion that "we were
>>> not too prescriptive on the exact wording". But this patch can be used
>> as a
>>> reference for a good starting point for other podlings.
>> 
>> I agree it is a good starting point. But given how many places would
>> have to be updated if there are any subsequent objections, I think it
>> would be good to get some more opinions.
>> 
>>> [1]
>>> 
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-horaedb/pull/1535#issuecomment-2130634831
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> tison.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> tison  于2024年5月24日周五 13:16写道：
>>> 
>>>> A concrete proposal for the HoraeDB situation:
>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-horaedb/pull/1535
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> tison.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> tison  于2024年5月24日周五 08:03写道：
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is a discussed topic at [1].
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/kxvdkrf8g8yr6hww1n08r21xdy67y4ok
>>>>> 
>>>>> I agree on the '(Incubating)' in the repo description part.
>>>>> 
>>>>> For the disclaimer part, [1] first had:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would be for requiring the incubator disclaimer text in the
>> project's
>>>>>> README.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But later Justin suggested [2]:
>>>>> 
>>>>> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/n1otdvff6fw14xmpjwlc8xy40dh0grms
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Alternatively, perhaps we can come up with something a little
>> shorter
>>>>>> shorter that points to DISCLAIMER? What is important is that the
>>>>>> project is clearly understood to be an incubating p[project and
>>>>>> what that means, rather than the exact wording.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I made a few preview candidates at [3].
>>>>> 
>>>>> [3] https://github.com/apache/incubator-fury/tree/tisonkun-patch-1.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So now, I think we can evaluate these opinions at HoraeDB's ticket
>> [4] to
>>>>> make a reference.
>>>>> 
>>>>> [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25790
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can see that either:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. Inline the DISCLAIMER content in the README; or,
>>>>> 2. Add a link to the '(Incubating)' words to the DISCLAIMER.
>>>>> 
>>>>> should work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> cc dev@horaedb.a.o for their information and participation. Please
>> keep
>>>>> general@incubator.o.o in cc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> tison.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Justin Mclean  于2024年5月24日周五 07:52写道：
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Whilst the DISCLAIMER file is helpful, and having '(Incubating)' in
>>>>>>> the repo description/About, neither of these are all that obvious.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yep, that should be done.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It seems to me that the repo README should also contain the
>> Incubator
>>>>>>> disclaimer, as is done on website pages.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That is also my expectation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> See for instance:
>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25790
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -
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>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>> -
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>> 
>> 

Re: [QUESTION] KIE - NPM package names

[Dave Fisher]

Here’s my 2 cents.

Incubation is a journey, and if there are parts that are yet to be compliant 
that should be fine. In the end all will be squared away.

For the IPMC - should we have something like DISCLAIMER-WIP for binary 
convenience packaging?

Best,
Dave

> On May 15, 2024, at 1:13 PM, Tiago Bento  wrote:
> 
> Tison,
> 
> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 1:43 PM tison  <mailto:wander4...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> We have an official account on NPM [1] and the associated org [2] (cc @Mark
>> Thomas  IIRC who manages this account).
>> 
>> [1] https://www.npmjs.com/~theasf
>> [2] https://www.npmjs.com/org/apache
>> 
>> Both of these associations can improve the verification and brand for your
>> release, while you may use the @apache scope in your package's name to
>> replace the handy apache- prefix that isn't endorsed by NPM's mechanism.
>> 
>> For the name and branding topic, I would suggest (in priority):
>> 
>> 1. State your display name as Apache KIE™ (incubating) on the release page
>> (README).
> Ok.
> 
>> 2. Build an association with our official NPM organization, following NPM's
>> mechanism.
> How? Every package we ever published to NPM under KIE is owned by
> https://www.npmjs.com/~kie-tools-bot <https://www.npmjs.com/~kie-tools-bot> 
> now (some of them were
> removed/renamed). We can give control to the ~theasf user, no problem.
> 
>> 3. Change your package name (handle) to @apache/kie-xxx.
> This is what I'd like to avoid, as it's going to be major work on our
> side due to the number of packages we have, delaying our release even
> more... I see OpenDAL has some packages published under the `opendal`
> and `@opendal/*` names, which is kind of analogous to what we'd have
> without renaming. Of course we can move everything to @apache/kie-* or
> @apache-kie/* to comply with the guidelines and requirements, but if
> this could be postponed to the next release, it would be great.
>> 
>> As for the VS Code Extensions, I'm unfamiliar with this scope, but it seems
>> there are other names like "kogito". What are the relations between them
>> and KIE?
> Drools, jBPM, SonataFlow, OptaPlanner, Kogito, and Tools are all
> components inside KIE. All KIE VS Code Extensions are already
> published under these names I listed. Renaming it would mean
> essentially creating new extensions, without any relationship to the
> old ones whatsoever. Example:
> https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=kie-group.dmn-vscode-extension
>  
> <https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=kie-group.dmn-vscode-extension>
> 
>> 
>> As for the WebJar, I'm unfamiliar with this scope also. And I don't find an
>> entry called sonataflow-deployment-webapp on the page you linked.
> If you type "sonataflow" in the search input at the right-hand-side
> you'll see that a JAR was published based on the NPM package. See
> https://central.sonatype.com/artifact/org.webjars.npm/sonataflow-deployment-webapp
>  
> <https://central.sonatype.com/artifact/org.webjars.npm/sonataflow-deployment-webapp>
> 
>> 
>> The official name of an ASF project is always Apache Foo [3], and we should
>> use this name when possible.
> Ok.
> 
>> 
>> [3] https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/guide
>> 
>> Best,
>> tison.
>> 
>> 
>> Tiago Bento  于2024年5月16日周四 00:43写道：
>> 
>>> Shawn,
>>> 
>>> Does that mean you didn't publish anything to NPM as part of your
>>> releases while in the incubator?
>>> 
>>> On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 12:31 PM Shawn Yang 
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Tiago,
>>>> 
>>>> From the current incubator release policy, you need to rename all npm
>>>> packages to apache-xxx before releasing. The packages released before
>>>> should be on to left intact.
>>>> 
>>>> I came across same issue when we release apache fury. In your case, most
>>>> packages starts with kie. Fury has similar rules which starts with
>>> furyjs.
>>>> Rename to apache-xxx has many works to do and breaks the compatibility
>>> with
>>>> downstreams. So fury just skipped release binary packages for fury
>>>> JavaScript.
>>>> 
>>>> I was wondering whether the incubator release policy remove such name
>>>> rules. It does introduce extra work and confusion to podlings. And It's
>>> not
>>>> idiomatic in npm. Similar confusion exists for Python wheels. In Python,
>>>> the nami

Re: [VOTE] Apache StormCrawler (Incubating) 3.0 Release Candidate 2

[Dave Fisher]

Caring over my +1 (Binding) from the dev list VOTE thread.

Best,
Dave

> On May 13, 2024, at 12:41 AM, Richard Zowalla  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> I have posted release candidate for the Apache StormCrawler
> (Incubating) 3.0 release and it is ready for testing.
> 
> This is our first release after joining the ASF incubator as a
> poddling. It is a breaking change with renamings in the group ids and
> the removal of the elasticsearch module.
> 
> Thank you to everyone who contributed to this release, including all of
> our users and the people who submitted bug reports,
> contributed code or documentation enhancements.
> 
> The release was made using the Apache StormCrawler (Incubating) release
> process, documented here:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-stormcrawler/RELEASING.md
> 
> Here is the VOTE and VOTE Result on our dev@stormcrawler.a.o list
> 
> - https://lists.apache.org/thread/l66fyzf9ly7twmfz1vjw1x3sfl0jkzd3
> - https://lists.apache.org/thread/19txfl2ykmjzot8nb1mx6krh8ogzjhkp
> 
> 
> Source:
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/stormcrawler/stormcrawler-3.0/
> 
> 
> Tag:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-stormcrawler/releases/tag/stormcrawler-3.0
> 
> Maven Repo:
> 
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachestormcrawler-1001/
> 
> 
> 
> stormcrawler-3.0-rc2
> Testing StormCrawler 3.0 release candidate
> 
> 
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachestormcrawler-1001/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Preview of website:
> 
> https://stormcrawler.staged.apache.org/download/index.html
> 
> Release notes:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-stormcrawler/releases/tag/stormcrawler-3.0
> 
> Reminder: The up-2-date KEYS file for signature verification can be
> found here:
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/stormcrawler/KEYS
> 
> Please vote on releasing these packages as Apache StormCrawler
> (Incubating) 3.0
> 
> The vote is open for at least the next 72 hours.
> 
> Only votes from IPMC members are binding, but everyone is
> welcome to check the release candidate and vote.
> 
> The vote passes if at least three binding +1 votes are cast.
> 
> Please VOTE
> 
> [+1] go ship it
> [+0] meh, don't care
> [-1] stop, there is a ${showstopper}
> 
> Please include your checklist in your vote:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/Incubator+Release+Checklist
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> Richard
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Drop the incubator- prefix for podling's GitHub repo name

[Dave Fisher]

+0 (binding) wave

> On May 7, 2024, at 5:34 PM, Francis Chuang  wrote:
> 
> +1 (binding)
> 
> I think this is a pragmatic and well-thought out approach.
> 
> Francis
> 
> On 8/05/2024 10:31 am, tison wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Following the discussion thread [1], I'd start a vote on the following
>> proposals:
>> 1. Establish a consensus to allow and finally converge podling's GitHub repo 
>> to
>> have a name without the incubator- prefix.
>> 2. Allow existing ongoing podlings to ask the INFRA to drop their
>> incubator- prefix by now, not MUST during the graduation.
>> 3. Update the docs on incubator.apache.org everywhere if the description
>> can conflict with this consensus.
>> 4. Update the docs on incubator.apache.org to guide how to describe
>> podling's incubating status on the GitHub repo (namely, including
>> "incubating" in the repo description and README, point to the DISCLAIMER
>> content).
>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/kxvdkrf8g8yr6hww1n08r21xdy67y4ok
>> +1 allow podling's GitHub repo to have a name without the incubator-
>> prefix, and other items above
>> +0 do not care strongly
>> -1 disagree the proposals above, because ...
>> Please vote with your ASF ID followed by (binding) if you are a member of
>> the Incubator PMC or (not binding) if not.
>> Vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
>> Best,
>> tison.
> 
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Re: Verification of download pages and links

[Dave Fisher]

Tison,

> On Apr 28, 2024, at 12:10 PM, tison  wrote:
> 
> Thank you, Dave :D
> 
> It gives a reason. I'm OK with this explanation now so that I won't bring
> it to the INFRA.
> 
> Back to the original purpose of this thread, I suggest:
> 
> 1. Go through our Incubator Guide and find if we have some references to
> this release distribution policy (maybe in [1][2]). Then, make this
> requirement clear and discoverable.
> 2. Try to implement the preview feature and add the verify items in one
> project so later we use it as a reference.
> 
> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/distribution.html
> [2] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html

FYI - The incubator clutch analysis includes generated release download 
sections for all releases it finds in the incubator directory on the 
dist.apache.org svn repository:

For example: https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/streampark.html

See https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/clutch2status.py:

print("== Releases",file=f)
print("",file=f)
print("=== Current",file=f)
print("",file=f)
hasKeys = False
url1 = urls['keys']
if len(url1) > 0:
hasKeys = True
print("*{0}[Signing Keys]*".format(url1),file=f)
url1 = "/".join(url1.split("/")[:-1])+"/"
print("",file=f)
print("It is essential that you verify the integrity of release 
downloads. See https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi#verify[instructions 
here]",file=f)
else:
print("*No PGP Signing Keys*",file=f)
jj = 0
fsize = 0
if len(projects[k]['releases']) > 0 and hasKeys:
j = 1
for r in sorted(projects[k]['releases']):
path = 
"{0}/{1}/{2}".format(k,projects[k]['releases'][r]['folder'],r)
print("",file=f)
print(" {0}: {1}".format(j,r),file=f)
print("",file=f)
print("| *{0}{1}[Download]* | *{2}{3}.asc[Signature]* | 
*{4}{5}.{6}[Hash]* | {7}".format(
  "https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua/incubator/;, path,
  "https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/;, path,
  "https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/;, path, 
projects[k]['releases'][r]['hash'],
  r),file=f)
print("-- Filesize: 
{0}".format(humanbytes(float(projects[k]['releases'][r]['size']))),file=f)
print("-- Released: {0} by {1} in {2}".format(
  projects[k]['releases'][r]['dtm'],
  projects[k]['releases'][r]['user'],
  projects[k]['releases'][r]['revision']),file=f)
j += 1
fsize += int(projects[k]['releases'][r]['size'])
print("",file=f)
print("Total size of all downloads = 
{0}".format(humanbytes(float(fsize))),file=f)
elif hasKeys:
print(NO_RELEASES.format(projects[k]['fullName']),file=f)
print("",file=f)

And https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.py

with osPopen(['svn', 'ls', '-Rv', 
'https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator']) as s:
for line in s.stdout:
line = line.strip()
if line[-1:] == '/':
# skip directories  

   
continue
listing = line.split(' ')
revision = "r{0}".format(listing[0])
user = listing[1]
if listing[-6] == '':
dtm1 = datetime.datetime.strptime(" ".join(listing[-4:-2])+" 
"+str(gatherYear),"%b %d %Y")
if dtm1 > gatherDate:
dtm1 = datetime.datetime.strptime(" ".join(listing[-4:-2])+" 
"+str(gatherYear-1),"%b %d %Y")
fsize = listing[-5]
else:
dtm1 = datetime.datetime.strptime(" ".join(listing[-5:-1]),"%b %d 
%Y")
fsize = listing[-6]
dtm = dtm1.strftime("%m/%d/%Y")
line = listing[-1]
releasesListing[line] = {
'user': user,
'revision': revision,
'dtm': dtm,
'size': fsize
}
fields = line.split('/')
podling = fields[0]
distareas[podling] = True
file = fields[-1]
if file:
if re.search('KEYS(\.txt)?$', file):
keysList[podling] = 
"{0}/{1}".format("https://downloads.apache.org/incubator;, line)
if re.search('\.(asc|sig)$', file, flags=re.IGNORECASE):
path = "/".join(fields[1:])
if optionVerbose:
print("D

Re: Verification of download pages and links

[Dave Fisher]

> On Apr 28, 2024, at 9:58 AM, tison  wrote:
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> I found there is no rationale for these links, and thus, it's quite a bit
> challenging in memory.
> 
> IIRC the closer.lua script is for selecting the most proper CDN for
> source/binary bundles in use. They can, technically, work for SHASUM and
> signatures also. Why do we use https://downloads.apache.org for the latter
> two?

Historically we had a mirror network and closer.lua picked out a mirror near 
you. In order to be sure that the download source or binary on the mirror was 
not altered on (or on its way to or from) the mirror, the detached signature 
and checksums must be served from ASF controlled resources.

Whether or not this still makes sense is a discussion for Infra since they are 
charged with enforcing and supporting the release distribution policy.

Best,
Dave

> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> 
> sebb  于2024年4月29日周一 00:34写道：
> 
>> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 at 15:38, tison  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah. I support that we always need to release sources on our platform.
>>> 
>>> Given the links to downloads.apache.org, archive.apache.org,
>>> https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua, can be unintuitive for users, I
>>> agree that we can have a simple Download page for such library-only
>>> projects.
>> 
>> The download page can also be used for links to release notes, and to
>> provide other support information.
>> 
>>> Here is a patch to cover a minimal download page [1], which is derived
>> from
>>> OpenDAL's download page [2]. Welcome to leave comments if you find any
>>> issues or things we can improve on.
>>> 
>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/datafusion/pull/10271
>> 
>> The closer.lua script is only intended for the source and binary bundles.
>> 
>> The sigs and hashes (and KEYS) should link directly to
>> https://downloads.apache.org/datafusion/...
>> 
>>> [2] https://opendal.apache.org/download
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> tison.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Justin Mclean  于2024年4月28日周日 10:02写道：
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> Projects need to make source releases on ASF infrastructure and have a
>>>> download page for good reasons. Some users need a place to verify and
>>>> download a trusted release. Having it hosted on ASF infrastructure
>> means
>>>> people can 100% trust it, unlike 3rd party providers. 3rd party
>> providers
>>>> have gone rogue in the past (e.g . Source Forge), disappeared (e.g.
>> Google
>>>> Code), or had multiple serious issues (e.g. NPM). Also by placing a
>> release
>>>> in the ASF distribution area / a project download page gives confidence
>>>> that the ASF release process has been followed and that it is not a
>> release
>>>> by a 3rd party or an unofficial release of some sort.  IMO, all
>> projects
>>>> need to have a download page, even if it may not be used by the
>> majority of
>>>> users.
>>>> 
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>> Justin
>>>> -
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
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Re: Assistance Needed: Editing resilientdb.xml on Apache SVN

[Dave Fisher]

> On Apr 5, 2024, at 1:01 PM, Francis Chuang  wrote:
> 
> Hey Apratim,
> 
> Those files are stored in a subversion repository, therefore, you will need 
> to install subversion (svn) to checkout and commit to the repository.
> 
> I can see that you are already a committer on incubator, so your ASF account 
> should have sufficient permissions to edit the file.
> 
> For reviewing your changes, I suggest posting your changes to your incubating 
> project's mailing list for review and then doing the actual edits and 
> committing them. I don't think there's a ui like GitHub for reviewing changes 
> to the svn repository.

There is no ui for this. This part of the incubator process is pre-2010. I 
highly recommend that you use an XML Validator like 
https://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_validator.asp to avoid breaking process.

Best,
Dave

> 
> Francis
> 
> On 6/04/2024 3:37 am, Apratim Shukla wrote:
>> Dear Community,
>> I hope this message finds you well. I’m Apratim from ResilientDB, seeking
>> guidance on how to edit the resilientdb.xml file within the Apache SVN
>> repository (
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects/).
>> Despite following the guide on the Apache Incubator website (
>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/website.html#Edit+your+project+status+page),
>> I'm unsure about the process, especially accessing and submitting changes
>> to this specific file.
>> Could you provide instructions or direct me to resources on:
>> 1) Accessing and editing the resilientdb.xml file.
>> 2) Required tools or permissions for submitting changes.
>> 3) The review and integration process for changes.
>> Your assistance will help ensure our project information is up-to-date.
>> Thank you for your support.
>> Best regards,
>> Apratim Shukla
>> Member, ResilientDB Team
> 
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Re: Trademarks and incubation (was: [DISCUSS] Graduate Apache AGE Incubating as a Top Level Project)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

> On Apr 3, 2024, at 4:33 AM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:
> 
> Question: where did the incubation process fail in this case?  How can we 
> prevent something like this from happening again?

Rather than consider what went wrong in this case and to avoid an how is the 
Incubator broken this time discussion … let’s look at the real problem. 

1. Companies donate IP while not understanding that they are giving up 
trademarks.
2. We defer trademark assignment until Incubation ends.

These branding issues can happen in TLPs as well.

It would help if the following were improved (I’m not licking this cookie, just 
discussion.)

1. If the Champion has one duty to the ASF it is to make sure that any entity 
that will sign an SGA knows the brand implications.
2. The IPMC members need to be willing to actively retire projects that are not 
properly understanding the “Apache Way”. This should not be consider a failure 
of the Incubator.
3. The VP, Brand may need to alter the Podling Name Search to include 
information about the brand’s "pre-existing conditions”.
4. When the Incubator votes to allow graduation it should have explicit 
feedback from one or more active Mentors. The VOTE should not be held unless 
that is demonstrated in the [DISCUSS].
5. The Board should ask for explicit assurances from the Incubator PMC that the 
new PMC has or will handle the situation.

Best,
Dave

> 
> On 2021/12/20 22:50:13 Eya Badal Abdisho wrote:
>> Hello Justin,
>> Thank you for your feedback. Please find more information following:
> 
> ...snip...> - There are some minor trademark issues on the Bitnine site e.g 
> [2] → All
>> will be fixed in a day.
> 
> One issue today is that both the Bitnine site advertises several software 
> products with names that start with "AGE...", including a graph-based tool.  
> The other issue is that AgeDB is a company using similar names and branding 
> as Apache Age.
> 
> These issues clearly weren't fixed, nor do they appear to really have been 
> seriously addressed in the past two years.
> 
>  https://bitnine.net/
>  https://agedb.io/
> 
> ...snip...
>> - I notice one person who replied to this thread had a agedb.io email
>> address - what is it relationship with the project?
>> Agedb is a US startup (incorporated in California May this year) and is
>> affiliated with Bitnine Global, who contributed the original AGE source
>> codes to the Apache Software Foundation. The purpose of Agedb is not yet
>> clearly defined but it is expected to be to provide graph database
>> solutions and related services.
> 
> I definitely appreciate our Incubator mentors, who do an incredible job in 
> their volunteer time.  Helping build communities is hard work, and is to be 
> celebrated.
> 
> How can we improve documentation, education, or training so that the below 
> sentence would leap out at any mentor as a "You can't do that!"
> 
> "purpose of Agedb is ... provide graph database solutions and related 
> services"
> 
> Given we were trying to incubate Apache AGE as a graph database, the above 
> sentence is literally describing trademark infringement!  How can we make it 
> easier to ensure podlings and their donating organizations actually take 
> trademark transfer seriously?
> 
> -- 
> - Shane
>  Member
>  The Apache Software Foundation
> 
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Re: [VOTE] The retirement of Apache Milagro

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

> On Mar 18, 2024, at 12:44 AM, jean-frederic clere  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Based on discussion[1], I would like to call a vote to retire Apache Milagro.
> 
> Please vote accordingly:
> [] +1 approve
> [] +0 no option
> [] -1 disapprove with a reason
> 
> [1]: https://lists.apache.org/thread/kfnro4o2tdctlc6tryxmn70tddpwf5wh
> 
> Thank you all for your participation.
> 
> -- 
> Cheers
> 
> Jean-Frederic
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal for HertzBeat

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

It’s not a branding conflict unless Hertz has a trademark in class 9.

The champion or mentors could do a PODLINGNAMESEARCH and see what VP, Brand 
thinks.

After all hertz is a well known unit of measure: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz

Best,
Dave

> On Mar 16, 2024, at 7:51 AM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
> Would there be any chance that you could reconsider the name? Hertz is
> a very well known international car rental brand.
> 
> On Sat, 16 Mar 2024 at 14:24, Zhang Yonglun  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi IPMC members,
>> 
>> I would like to propose a new project to the ASF incubator - HertzBeat.
>> 
>> HertzBeat[1] is an easy-to-use, open source, real-time monitoring
>> system. It features an agentless architecture, high-performance
>> clustering, Prometheus compatibility, and powerful custom monitoring
>> and status page building capabilities.
>> 
>> Here is the proposal -
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/HertzBeatProposal
>> 
>> I would be the Champion of the project. I will mentor and help the project
>> through the incubator with Yu Xiao [xia...@apache.org], Justin Mclean
>> (jmcl...@apache.org).
>> 
>> We are open to hearing the feedback from the incubator.
>> 
>> [1] https://hertzbeat.dromara.org/
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Zhang Yonglun
>> Apache ShenYu & ShardingSphere
>> 
>> -
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Re: [VOTE] Accept StormCrawler Into the ASF Incubator

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Best,
Dave

> On Mar 12, 2024, at 1:33 PM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Following the discussion about the StormCrawler proposal [1], I am
> starting this official vote for the StormCrawler podling. Here is the
> proposal:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/StormCrawler+Proposal
> 
> Please cast your vote:
> [ ] +1, bring into the Incubator
> [ ] +0, I don't care either way
> [ ] -1, do not bring StormCrawler into the Incubator, because...
> 
> The vote will open for one week from today, 12 March, 2024.
> 
> Thanks,
> PJ
> 
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/sjht4k1ojhcgfnzszxb809g1dh2t1dlw
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Podling web sites: make (incubator.) optional in podling urls

[Dave Fisher]

+1, binding.  (I would be stronger and recommend that it not be done at all.) A 
string DISCLAIMER on the main page should be enough.)

> On Mar 12, 2024, at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> 
> +1, binding.
> 
> On 3/12/24 19:36, Craig Russell wrote:
>> After this discussion
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/frwsy1g1pkx3ppbvzt538xxh9qo9y319
>> I'd like to propose that we make the incubator. part of the URL optional for 
>> podlings.
>> This is a way to minimize the work needed to graduate. No redirect or 
>> reimplementation of the web site is required.
>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding.html will need to change only 
>> the URL requirement. Other branding requirements are still applicable.
>> While most podlings do have incubator. in their URL, several do not and it 
>> is a flag for the web site checker.
>> +1 make incubator. optional in URL
>> +0 do not care strongly
>> -1 keep the requirement for incubator. in URL
>> Please vote with your ASF id followed by (binding) if you are a member of 
>> the Incubator PMC or (not binding) if not.
>> Vote will be open for at least 72 hours.
>> Here is my +1
>> Craig L Russell
>> c...@apache.org
>> -
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Re: [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal for StormCrawler

[Dave Fisher]

There are options. I helped establish ASF Pelican by converting the main ASF 
website from the Apache CMS. See GitHub.com/apache/www-site/. I don’t think it 
needs to be decided in the proposal. It can be decided at he beginning of 
Incubation.

Best,
Dave

> On Mar 7, 2024, at 1:37 PM, tison  wrote:
> 
> A minor comment:
> 
>> We are planning to build the https://stormcrawler.apache.org website with 
>> Jekyll, maybe based on https://github.com/apache/apache-website-template.
> 
> This branch is unmaintained for years (although some volunteers show
> their interests, there is no move so far) and you may encounter many
> issues.
> 
> I suggest you use Fury site as a template (PJ is also a mentor of
> Fury) and adjust to your content. I'm also working on a Docusaurus
> based website template [1] recently.
> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> [1] https://github.com/apache/apache-website-template/tree/docusaurus
> 
> PJ Fanning  于2024年3月8日周五 02:29写道：
>> 
>> Thanks Lewis. It would be great if you can act as a menot. I will
>> update the proposal to add you to the mentor list.
>> 
>> On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 at 19:09, Lewis John McGibbney  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think StromCrawler would be an excellent candidate for the Incubator.
>>> If the podling is looking for an additional mentor, I would be happy to 
>>> chip in.
>>> lewismc
>>> 
>>> On 2024/03/03 23:24:38 PJ Fanning wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> I would like to propose StormCrawler [1] as a new Apache Incubator project,
>>>> and you can examine the proposal [2] for more details.
>>>> 
>>>> StormCrawler is a collection of resources for building low-latency,
>>>> customisable and scalable web crawlers on Apache Storm.
>>>> 
>>>> Proposal
>>>> 
>>>> The aim of StormCrawler is to help build web crawlers that are:
>>>> 
>>>> * scalable
>>>> * resilient
>>>> * low latency
>>>> * easy to extend
>>>> * polite yet efficient
>>>> 
>>>> StormCrawler achieves this partly with Apache Storm, which it is based
>>>> on. To use an analogy, Apache Storm is to StormCrawler what Apache
>>>> Hadoop is to Apache Nutch.
>>>> 
>>>> StormCrawler is mature (26 releases to date) and is used by many
>>>> organisations world-wide.
>>>> 
>>>> Initial Committers
>>>> 
>>>> Julien Nioche [jnio...@apache.org https://github.com/jnioche]
>>>> Sebastian Nagel [sna...@apache.org https://github.com/sebastian-nagel]
>>>> Richard Zowalla [r...@apache.org  https://github.com/rzo1]
>>>> Tim Allison [talli...@apache.org https://github.com/tballison]
>>>> Michael Dinzinger [michael.dinzin...@uni-passau.de
>>>> https://github.com/michaeldinzinger]
>>>> 
>>>> Most of the existing StormCrawler contributors are existing ASF
>>>> committers and are looking to build a vibrant community following the
>>>> Apache Way.
>>>> 
>>>> I will help this project as the champion and mentor. We would welcome
>>>> additional mentors, if anyone has an interest in helping.
>>>> 
>>>> We are looking forward to your questions and feedback.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> PJ
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://github.com/DigitalPebble/storm-crawler
>>>> [2] 
>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/StormCrawler+Proposal
>>>> 
>>>> -
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: svn commit: r1916128 - /incubator/public/trunk/content/guides/graduation.xml

[Dave Fisher]

Hi PJ,

This part of the site is only maintained in GitHub. All of content/guides in 
svn are “historical documents”.

The directory should probably be removed.

Best,
Dave 

> On Mar 5, 2024, at 7:56 AM, fannin...@apache.org wrote:
> 
> Author: fanningpj
> Date: Tue Mar  5 12:56:04 2024
> New Revision: 1916128
> 
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1916128=rev
> Log:
> update Graduation section about the board resolution
> 
> Modified:
>incubator/public/trunk/content/guides/graduation.xml
> 
> Modified: incubator/public/trunk/content/guides/graduation.xml
> URL: 
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/public/trunk/content/guides/graduation.xml?rev=1916128=1916127=1916128=diff
> ==
> --- incubator/public/trunk/content/guides/graduation.xml [utf-8] (original)
> +++ incubator/public/trunk/content/guides/graduation.xml [utf-8] Tue Mar  5 
> 12:56:04 2024
> @@ -629,7 +629,7 @@
> 
> 
> Business for the  -
> href="/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#board">Board 
> should be submitted by a post
> +
> href="/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html#board">Board 
> should be submitted
> using the  href="https://whimsy.apache.org/board/agenda/;>Whimsy Board Agenda tool.
> 
> 
> @@ -645,7 +645,7 @@
> 
> 
> When you submit the resolution data, you will be 
> presented with the text of the board resolution
> -whuch can be edited to fix any issues.
> +which can be edited to fix any issues before you 
> finalize the submission.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal for StormCrawler

[Dave Fisher]

I confirm my interest in being a Mentor.

Best,
Dave

> On Mar 3, 2024, at 6:24 PM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I would like to propose StormCrawler [1] as a new Apache Incubator project,
> and you can examine the proposal [2] for more details.
> 
> StormCrawler is a collection of resources for building low-latency,
> customisable and scalable web crawlers on Apache Storm.
> 
> Proposal
> 
> The aim of StormCrawler is to help build web crawlers that are:
> 
> * scalable
> * resilient
> * low latency
> * easy to extend
> * polite yet efficient
> 
> StormCrawler achieves this partly with Apache Storm, which it is based
> on. To use an analogy, Apache Storm is to StormCrawler what Apache
> Hadoop is to Apache Nutch.
> 
> StormCrawler is mature (26 releases to date) and is used by many
> organisations world-wide.
> 
> Initial Committers
> 
> Julien Nioche [jnio...@apache.org https://github.com/jnioche]
> Sebastian Nagel [sna...@apache.org https://github.com/sebastian-nagel]
> Richard Zowalla [r...@apache.org  https://github.com/rzo1]
> Tim Allison [talli...@apache.org https://github.com/tballison]
> Michael Dinzinger [michael.dinzin...@uni-passau.de
> https://github.com/michaeldinzinger]
> 
> Most of the existing StormCrawler contributors are existing ASF
> committers and are looking to build a vibrant community following the
> Apache Way.
> 
> I will help this project as the champion and mentor. We would welcome
> additional mentors, if anyone has an interest in helping.
> 
> We are looking forward to your questions and feedback.
> 
> Thanks,
> PJ
> 
> [1] https://github.com/DigitalPebble/storm-crawler
> [2] 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/StormCrawler+Proposal
> 
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Re: Podling web sites: .incubator. required?

[Dave Fisher]

I know of former podlings that have been TLPs for five years that still have 
assets that read https://project.incubator.apache.org 
<https://project.incubator.apache.org/> - I think requiring a DISCLAIMER on the 
main page of every podling website would be better in the long run. The 
DISCLAIMER could include links back to 
https://incubator.apache.org/project/podling 
<https://incubator.apache.org/project/podling> with clear indication that it is 
incubating and what the reported status is.

Whimsy’s project site check could check that the DISCLAIMER is removed while 
the podling one checks that the DISCLAIMER is present.

Best,
Dave

> On Feb 28, 2024, at 5:56 PM, sebb  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 at 15:41, PJ Fanning  <mailto:fannin...@apache.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> +1 binding
>> Formalises what most podlings are doing anyway.
> 
> Not so, according to the podling analysis:
> 
> https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/check/uri 
> <https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/check/uri>
> 
>> On Wed 28 Feb 2024, 16:13 Alex Porcelli,  wrote:
>> 
>>> +1 (non-binding)
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 10:01 AM Suyan  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> +1 non-binding
>>>> 
>>>> This looks a little more concise.
>>>> 
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Suyan
>>>> 
>>>> Craig Russell  于2024年2月28日周三 08:18写道：
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was policy at one point for podlings to have .incubator. in their
>>> home page url. But many podlings now have transitioned away from this and
>>> simply use their podling.apache.org name. The policy document is a bit
>>> iffy on the subject:
>>>>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/branding.html
>>>>> 
>>>>>> After a podling has been approved, the lists are created, and the
>>> initial code drop has commenced, you MUST refer to the podling as Apache
>>> Podling-Name AND mention that the project is under Incubation. Suitable
>>> mentions include:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  • Inclusion of the http://podling-name.incubator.apache.org/
>>> URL
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  • Apache Podling-Name is currently undergoing Incubation at
>>> the Apache Software Foundation.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Incubator PMC (IPMC) must approve other references before you
>>> publish them. You only need to make these statements upon the first
>>> reference to the podling in a document.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I feel this is very much like the former requirement for mail lists to
>>> include incubator.apache.org as part of their name. This turned out to be
>>> a huge waste of time for the podling as well as for infra when upon
>>> graduation all of the documentation and tooling for mail lists had to
>>> change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would propose that as part of our official policy we recommend the
>>> podling's url as https://podling.apache.org and get rid of the
>>> .incubator. in the url.
>>>>> 
>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Craig L Russell
>>>>> c...@apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -
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>>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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Re: [NOTICE] Incubation Report for February 2024

[Dave Fisher]

> On Feb 24, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 23, 2024, at 6:44 PM, tison  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm trying to create an Incubation Report page for February 2024 at
>> [1], including the following podlings according to the report group
>> info that they should report in this month:
>> 
>> * answer
>> * fury
>> * horaedb
>> * streampark
>> 
>> But it still lacks information that I need some help:
>> 
>> 1. What is the desired timeline and shepherd assignments?
>> 2. Missing IPMC level report. Perhaps the only way is going through
>> the mailing list?
>> 3. Missing other projects need a report. I guess we have a script to
>> list out from the podling.xml file, but I don't find it. I may write
>> it when I have some spare time if there is no one. I don't promise :P
> 
> % svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk
> % python3 report_runbook.py
> usage: report_runbook.py [-h] [--apache-id APACHE_ID] --month MONTH
> report_runbook.py: error: the following arguments are required: —mestonth

Since it is just after the February report then we are preparing March.

These steps are needed first to catch up for missed months:
% edit content/podlings.xml if needed
% python3 clutch2.py
% python3 assign_shepherds.py --year=2024 --month=3
% python3 clutch2report.py
% svn add reports/report202403.txt
% svn ci -m ‘Prepare for March 2024 Report'
% cat reports/report202403.txt | pbcopy
Now you can create the wiki page. If you have `pbcopy` then paste that into the 
cwiki.

Please note that these runbook steps are not in a precise order.
Read the whole list and proceed logically.
Also, Justin has added some report_*.py scripts that may be shortcuts or 
additions to consider.

% python3 report_runbook.py --apache-id wave --month 3

##
# This doc is meant to be a guide to preparing the incubator
# report for a given month.  Each section has a heading, starting
# with mechanical, editorial, or Chair.  If you have volunteered
# to perform any of these actions, please pay attention to
# those sections.
##

##
# mechanical -- Send report timeline email.
#
# On the last Wednesday of the month, send an email to
# general@incubator announcing the report timeline, using the
# following content.
##

March 2024 Incubator report timeline:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/March2024

Wed March 06 -- Podling reports due by end of day
Sun March 10 -- Shepherd reviews due by end of day
Sun March 10 -- Summary due by end of day
Tue March 12 -- Mentor signoff due by end of day
Wed March 13 -- Report submitted to Board
Wed March 20 -- Board meeting


##
# mechanical -- Send report reminders email.
#
# Several times between the end of the prior month and beginning 
# of the reporting month, send a reminder email to all reporting 
# podlings 
##

# Reminders script (no more marvin tool, follow the prompts)
./report_reminders.py

##
# editorial  -- Create podling summary.
#
# After the podling reporting deadline has passed, group
# podlings into the following categories (additional categories
# may be added if appropriate):
#
# * Still getting started at the Incubator
# * Not yet ready to graduate
#   * No release
#   * Community growth
# * Ready to graduate
# * Did not report, expected next month
#
##

# For any podlings that did not report, add a "monthly" attribute
# in podlings.xml.  See https://s.apache.org/At0 for a sample commit.
# mechanical -- Assign podlings which do not report to "monthly".
[... edit podlings.xml with your editor of choice ...]
svn ci -m "Assign podlings which did not report to 'monthly'."

##
# editorial  -- Write narrative, misc, legal, infrastructure, etc.
#sections.
#
# After the podlings are compiled, please add the various sections
# listed above.  To do this, visit the incubator mail archives for
# the preceeding month and review any actions performed.  Were
# there any code donations? Podlings renamed?  Unexpected outages?
##

##
# editorial  -- Assemble list of releases.
#
# The Board report must contain a list of releases b

Re: [NOTICE] Incubation Report for February 2024

[Dave Fisher]

> On Feb 23, 2024, at 6:44 PM, tison  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm trying to create an Incubation Report page for February 2024 at
> [1], including the following podlings according to the report group
> info that they should report in this month:
> 
> * answer
> * fury
> * horaedb
> * streampark
> 
> But it still lacks information that I need some help:
> 
> 1. What is the desired timeline and shepherd assignments?
> 2. Missing IPMC level report. Perhaps the only way is going through
> the mailing list?
> 3. Missing other projects need a report. I guess we have a script to
> list out from the podling.xml file, but I don't find it. I may write
> it when I have some spare time if there is no one. I don't promise :P

% svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk
% python3 report_runbook.py
usage: report_runbook.py [-h] [--apache-id APACHE_ID] --month MONTH
report_runbook.py: error: the following arguments are required: —mestonth

Best,
Dave

> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/February2024
> 
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Re: ASF at Jetbrains

[Dave Fisher]

> On Feb 20, 2024, at 11:02 PM, Lukasz Lenart  wrote:
> 
> wt., 20 lut 2024 o 19:19 Craig Russell  napisał(a):
>> So I thought there was more content which would require transferring IP 
>> rights. But if it's just a trivial bit of a web page, no issues.
> 
> The only issue with the page right now is the missing ASF organization
> in the Marketplace, similar to what we have in Github. Who can create
> the organization in the Jetbrains Marketplace?

IMO You should discuss this with Infra. Maybe start asking on slack ..,

Best,
Dave

> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Lukasz
> 
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Re: ResilientDB Bootstrap missing Mailing Lists

[Dave Fisher]

Thanks for answering

> On Feb 21, 2024, at 12:34 AM, sebb  wrote:
> 
> The mailing lists already exist.
> 
> However the podling status files are out of date so clutch cannot find
> the information it needs.

These status files consist of both an xml and a later yml file.

I’d like to start a discussion about how to modernize these to be in the GitHub 
repository - apache/incubator.

> 
> See aso https://incubator.apache.org/projects/resilientdb.html which
> is rather out of date.

I think that ideally the clutch and status page can be combined to provide a 
real snapshot.

I have ideas.

Best,
Dave

> 
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 at 00:22, tison  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mohammad,
>> 
>> For this specific issue, you or your mentors should be able to
>> self-serve creating the necessary list on [1].
>> 
>> As in your proposal [2], they are:
>> 
>> * resilientdb-private (with moderated subscriptions) ->
>> priv...@resilientdb.apache.org
>> * resilientdb-dev -> dev@@resilientdb.apache.org
>> * resilientdb-commits -> comm...@resilientdb.apache.org
>> * resilientdb-user -> u...@resilientdb.apache.org
>> 
>> Generally, you should deal with such questions with your mentors. I
>> recommend you read [3][4] for more details about running a podling.
>> 
>> Best,
>> tison.
>> 
>> [1] https://selfserve.apache.org/mailinglist-new.html
>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/ResilientDBProposal
>> [3] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/roles_and_responsibilities.html
>> [4] https://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/
>> 
>> Mohammad Sadoghi  于2024年2月21日周三 08:09写道：
>>> 
>>> Dear Dave,
>>> 
>>> Hope you are safe and well.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for identifying this issue; how can we correct it?
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Mohammad Sadoghi, PhD
>>> Associate Professor
>>> Exploratory Systems Lab (ExpoLab)
>>> Department of Computer Science
>>> University of California, Davis
>>> 
>>> ExpoLab: https://expolab.org/
>>> ResilientDB: https://resilientdb.com/
>>> Phone: 914-319-7937
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 3:57 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi -
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps the podling status file in svn was not properly updated?
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 19, 2024, at 3:51 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi -
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please have a look at
>>>> https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/resilientdb.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Where are the mailing lists? Where is the website?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> -
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
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Re: (apache-website-template) branch jekyll created (now f2f8a9e)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Tison,

I’m following along. Infrastructure has a Pelican template site that is out of 
date: https://github.com/apache/template-site/

One approach is to find good examples of each build technique. If you look back 
at older projects you will see various historical waves of technique.

Best,
Dave 

> On Feb 20, 2024, at 3:48 PM, tison  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Thanks for picking up this commit. You may join the discussion at [1].
> 
> I have all the permission to follow what I want. But since
> apache-website-template is technically a foundation-wise repo and I'm
> a newcomer here, I'd like to listen to people's opinions before moving
> forward; especially there can be some arguments.
> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/tvry49gdclqqdtdcgk0x9hnl18vlxnm8
> 
> Dave Fisher  于2024年2月21日周三 02:35写道：
>> 
>> From the commit email it looks like this repository belongs to the Incubator.
>> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2024, at 2:27 AM, ti...@apache.org wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is an automated email from the ASF dual-hosted git repository.
>>> 
>>> tison pushed a change to branch jekyll
>>> in repository 
>>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/apache-website-template.git
>>> 
>>> 
>>> at f2f8a9e  Update download page template
>>> 
>>> No new revisions were added by this update.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: (apache-website-template) branch jekyll created (now f2f8a9e)

[Dave Fisher]

From the commit email it looks like this repository belongs to the Incubator.

> On Feb 14, 2024, at 2:27 AM, ti...@apache.org wrote:
> 
> This is an automated email from the ASF dual-hosted git repository.
> 
> tison pushed a change to branch jekyll
> in repository https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf/apache-website-template.git
> 
> 
>  at f2f8a9e  Update download page template
> 
> No new revisions were added by this update.
> 
> 
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[jira] [Created] (INCUBATOR-282) Modernize Clutch Analysis

[Dave Fisher (Jira)]

Dave Fisher created INCUBATOR-282:
-

 Summary: Modernize Clutch Analysis
 Key: INCUBATOR-282
 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INCUBATOR-282
 Project: Incubator
  Issue Type: Improvement
  Components: subversion
Reporter: Dave Fisher


Update clutch so that information that can be found in a more definitive 
location than the project status file is taken from there.



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Re: ResilientDB Bootstrap missing Mailing Lists

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Perhaps the podling status file in svn was not properly updated?

Best,
Dave

> On Feb 19, 2024, at 3:51 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> Please have a look at https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/resilientdb.html
> 
> Where are the mailing lists? Where is the website?
> 
> Best,
> Dave
> 
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ResilientDB Bootstrap missing Mailing Lists

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Please have a look at https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/resilientdb.html

Where are the mailing lists? Where is the website?

Best,
Dave

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Re: ASF at Jetbrains

[Dave Fisher]

Yes, that must happen and record the decision via LAZY CONSENSUS.

> On Feb 19, 2024, at 1:14 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> 
> I think we would also want a SGA from Jetbrains and go through [1] for the
> donation.
> 
> 
> 1:
> https://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/
> 
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 15:33 PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Lukasz,
>> 
>> Could you raise an INFRA JIRA to transfer the GitHub repo?
>> 
>> An alternative is to create a new ASF git repo and copy the history
>> from an existing repo. You can create the new repo using
>> https://selfserve.apache.org/
>> 
>> And GitHub provides the tooling for copying git history from an
>> existing repo into an empty repo.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> PJ
>> 
>> On Mon, 19 Feb 2024 at 17:36, Lukasz Lenart 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> The Apache Struts team took over the IntelliJ IDEA Struts 2 plugin
>>> ownership - the code has been donated by the Jetbrains (the papers
>>> have been signed and already confirmed by the secretary). Right now
>>> they would like to transfer ownership of the plugin's page as well and
>>> they ask if ASF owns an organization at https://plugins.jetbrains.com/
>>> already. Could you help?
>>> 
 We also would like to transfer plugin page ownership for
>> https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/1698-struts-2
 Does ASF have an organization on https://plugins.jetbrains.com/ ?
 Please let us know the organization ID and we will arrange the
>> transfer of the plugin page.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> Łukasz
>>> Struts PMC
>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Procedure for graduating an existing sub project to new top level project

[Dave Fisher]

You could also look into how Solr was spun out of Lucene.

It would be up to your PMC whether to make the new PMC identical or not.

Doing a podling name search on
DataFusion does check a box for the board.

The best place to continue this discussion is bo...@apache.org

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 15, 2023, at 8:02 AM, Andrew Lamb  wrote:
> 
> Thank you Julian. This is very helpful. I will review the archives.
> 
> Andrew
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 10:55 AM Julian Hyde  wrote:
>> 
>> I believe the process is for the Board to create a new PMC whose IP and
>> PMC members are an exact copy of the parent PMC.  (Like the Unix “fork”
>> function.) And then both PMCs delete the stuff, and PMC members, they no
>> longer need.
>> 
>> Arrow itself was created via this process (from Drill). You could search
>> the archives for the board resolution that created Arrow. The Incubator is
>> not involved in the process. (Except in some minor ways, such as a name
>> search.)
>> 
>> Julian
>> 
>>>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 7:09 AM, Andrew Lamb  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I apologize if this is not the right list on which to ask this question.
>>> 
>>> Can someone point to information about the procedure to propose
>>> “graduating” an *existing* sub project to a new top level project?
>>> 
>>> Specifically, we are working on a proposal to graduate the “Apache Arrow
>>> DataFusion”[1]  sub project to its own Top Level Project. The DataFusion
>>> project has sort of been “incubating” within the Arrow top level project
>>> for several years and has grown to the point where it can both stand on
>> its
>>> own as well as benefit from more focused community[2].
>>> 
>>> I searched the archives of this list [3] and did not find anything that
>>> seemed relevant.
>>> 
>>> I did find, farther back in history, that the Mahout, Avro and HBase
>>> projects appear to have previously “graduated” from sub projects of
>> Hadoop
>>> to their own top level projects but could not determine how they did so.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for any guidance you may be able to provide,
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>> 
>>> [1] https://arrow.apache.org/datafusion/
>>> 
>>> [2] https://github.com/apache/arrow-datafusion/discussions/6475
>>> 
>>> [3] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?general@incubator.apache.org
>>> [4]
>>> 
>> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_announces4
>> 
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>> 

Re: [VOTE] Accept Fury Into the ASF Incubator

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Best,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 8, 2023, at 3:06 AM, tison  wrote:
> 
> Hi Incubator
> 
> Following the discussion [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal of Fury [1], I
> am starting this official vote for the Fury project.
> 
> Here is their proposal:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/Fury+Proposal
> 
> Please cast your vote:
> 
> [ ] +1, bring into the Incubator
> [ ] +0, I don't care either way
> [ ] -1, do not bring Fury into the Incubator, because...
> 
> The vote will open for one week from today, Dec. 8th, 2023
> 
> Best,
> tison.
> 
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/jr3qwzxg2m6507zsll5fs8mopcco3ny3
> 
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Re: svn commit: r1912845 - /incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml

[Dave Fisher]

I’m glad we no longer need that hack from over 4 years ago.

Best,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2023, at 5:35 PM, sebb  wrote:
> 
> It looks like the error occurred in the jbake stage, not anakia.
> 
> It looks like the issue was actually here:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator/blob/1c95cfce15d4a5972662cdd844b7989090972c05/bake.sh#L19
> 
> I've added https to the property, and changed the podlings.dtd url to
> use https, and the site now builds OK.
> 
> 
>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 at 22:04, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> FYI - website build has been failing since August 30 due to a switch to use 
>> https for the podlings.dtd.
>> 
>> The part of the build with the very, very old ant/anakia build somehow 
>> requires http. The change to use https is now reverted. A subsequent comment 
>> is added to point to where this anakia process runs. Please test that and 
>> fix if you feel we must use https.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:20 PM, w...@apache.org wrote:
>>> 
>>> Author: wave
>>> Date: Mon Oct  9 20:20:04 2023
>>> New Revision: 1912845
>>> 
>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1912845=rev
>>> Log:
>>> revert r1912020 - see 
>>> https://builds.apache.org/job/Incubator/job/Incubator-SVN-Clutch-Analysis-part-1/1811/console
>>> 
>>> Modified:
>>>   incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml
>>> 
>>> Modified: incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml
>>> URL: 
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml?rev=1912845=1912844=1912845=diff
>>> ==
>>> --- incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml [utf-8] (original)
>>> +++ incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml [utf-8] Mon Oct  9 20:20:04 
>>> 2023
>>> @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@
>>>See the DTD for allowable elements and attributes.
>>>Note that description must precede mentors, and most of the podling 
>>> attributes are required.
>>> -->
>>> ->> "https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.dtd;>
>>> +>> "http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.dtd;>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> sponsor="Incubator" startdate="2006-06-06" enddate="2008-11-08">
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Retired podlings not being cleaned up

[Dave Fisher]

Please note that retired podlings must never be part of the Attic. The attic is 
for projects that were TLPs.

Retired podlings can move to other places depending on the original 
contributions. For websites that can mean any number of actions, but it must 
never be confused with former TLPs that are in the Attic. It takes a Board 
Resolution to discontinue a PMC and move responsibility to the Attic.

Retired podlings are projects that will never become ASF projects. They are not 
former ASF projects.

IMO It is intentional that retirement of a podling’s website is unclear.

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 17, 2023, at 5:46 AM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
> I've created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25181 to group the 
> INFRA tasks related to this.
> 
>> On 2023/11/17 09:44:54 sebb wrote:
>> Still no action as far as I can tell.
>> 
>>> On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 at 14:53, sebb  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Tuweni and Datalab retired some while ago, but nothing much seems to
>>> have been done to close them down.
>>> 
>>> Sebb
>> 
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Re: Is llvm exception allowed for incubator projects?

[Dave Fisher]

The phrase Apache License with exception … is meaningless the ASF does not 
allow it under trademarks. Please email tradema...@apache.org for any 
clarification.

If it’s not the Apache License then you can’t call it the Apache License + - or 
whatever.

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 23, 2023, at 6:58 PM, Ivan I  wrote:
> 
> If my project uses “Apache License v2.0 with LLVM Exceptions”
> LLVM Exceptions being:
>  LLVM Exceptions to the Apache 2.0 License 
> As an exception, if, as a result of your compiling your source code, portions
> of this Software are embedded into an Object form of such source code, you
> may redistribute such embedded portions in such Object form without complying
> with the conditions of Sections 4(a), 4(b) and 4(d) of the License.
> In addition, if you combine or link compiled forms of this Software with
> software that is licensed under the GPLv2 ("Combined Software") and if a
> court of competent jurisdiction determines that the patent provision (Section
> 3), the indemnity provision (Section 9) or other Section of the License
> conflicts with the conditions of the GPLv2, you may retroactively and
> prospectively choose to deem waived or otherwise exclude such Section(s) of
> the License, but only in their entirety and only with respect to the Combined
> Software.
> Can my project go into incubator? Will I need to change license at some 
> point? I am asking to avoid future headache like llvm has with license change.
> I looked all over incubator web site but could not find an answer
> 
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal of ResilientDB

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 9, 2023, at 7:51 PM, Suyash Gupta  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello All
> 
> Let me try to add to Mohammad's response. We defined an initial committer
> list of 40+ members as we wanted to give credit to everyone who has
> collaborated with us on projects/papers that were built around ResilientDB.
> But, the 20 contributors visible on github are the ones who worked on the
> actual codebase, which we are trying to bring to ASF. The projects that
> other folks worked on are independent from the ResilientDB codebase and
> have no correlation with this release.
> 
> So, following ASF guidelines, we are fine with reducing the initial
> committer list to the 20 members. Please let us know your thoughts.

One way to consider is that initial committers should be those who plan to 
participate in the Apache ResilientDB community. ASF committers need to sign an 
ICLA and that will determine how many committers. Nothing prevents any of those 
who don’t sign from contributing.

Early in incubation you will need to create a website and you can discuss the 
history of the project and if they agree those contributors you wish to honor.

Best wishes,
Dave

> 
> 
>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 9:47 AM Mohammad Sadoghi 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Everything we have done including research/papers and outcome of
>> development have been open for years. We simply wanted to keep the public
>> repo cleaner and we only released when we were certain that the new feature
>> is well tested and stable.
>> 
>> We will switch our development completely to our public repo effective
>> immediately. That is not issue at all.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Mohammad Sadoghi, PhD
>> Associate Professor
>> Exploratory Systems Lab (ExpoLab)
>> Department of Computer Science
>> University of California, Davis
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 3:08 AM Willem Jiang 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I just checked the GitHub issue and PRs of ResilientDB. There is
>>> little discussion on the GitHub issue and review comments on GitHub
>>> PRs.
>>> Please keep Open Communications[1] in mind. We value transparency in
>>> the ASF way. Internal development could block the contributions
>>> outside of the organization and cause us some trouble in building the
>>> community.
>>> 
>>> Once the development switches to the public repo, the project could be
>>> ready to enter the incubation process.
>>> 
>>> [1]
>>> 
>> https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/#what-makes-the-apache-way-so-hard-to-define
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Willem Jiang
>>> 
>>> Twitter: willemjiang
>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 3:33 PM Mohammad Sadoghi 
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you for your question.
>>>> 
>>>> With regards to the initial committers, over the years we had much
>> larger
>>>> set of contributors who worked on the private repo of ResilientDB which
>>>> derives the research. Only when features are stable and well tested
>> over
>>>> time, they have been advanced and promoted to our public repo. Our
>>> private
>>>> repo has many more experimental features that as part of our roadmap
>> will
>>>> be released once they reach the same level of maturity.
>>>> 
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Mohammad Sadoghi, PhD
>>>> Associate Professor
>>>> Exploratory Systems Lab (ExpoLab)
>>>> Department of Computer Science
>>>> University of California, Davis
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2023 at 12:23 AM Willem Jiang 
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have a quick question about the initial committers.
>>>>> There are about 40+ initial committers, but I can only find about 20
>>>>> contributors in the GitHub group[1] contributor list.
>>>>> Could you explain the initial committer criteria?
>>>>> There is a section of "Broader Contributing Members" in the
>>>>> proposal[2] after the initial committer, if we treat them as initial
>>>>> committers, why do we need to separate them with the initial
>>>>> committer?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1]https://github.com/resilientdb
>>>>> [2]
>>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/ResilientDBProposal
>&

Re: svn commit: r1912845 - /incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml

[Dave Fisher]

FYI - website build has been failing since August 30 due to a switch to use 
https for the podlings.dtd.

The part of the build with the very, very old ant/anakia build somehow requires 
http. The change to use https is now reverted. A subsequent comment is added to 
point to where this anakia process runs. Please test that and fix if you feel 
we must use https.

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 9, 2023, at 5:20 PM, w...@apache.org wrote:
> 
> Author: wave
> Date: Mon Oct  9 20:20:04 2023
> New Revision: 1912845
> 
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1912845=rev
> Log:
> revert r1912020 - see 
> https://builds.apache.org/job/Incubator/job/Incubator-SVN-Clutch-Analysis-part-1/1811/console
> 
> Modified:
>incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml
> 
> Modified: incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml
> URL: 
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml?rev=1912845=1912844=1912845=diff
> ==
> --- incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml [utf-8] (original)
> +++ incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml [utf-8] Mon Oct  9 20:20:04 
> 2023
> @@ -24,7 +24,7 @@
> See the DTD for allowable elements and attributes.
> Note that description must precede mentors, and most of the podling 
> attributes are required.
>  -->
> - "https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.dtd;>
> + "http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.dtd;>
> 
> 
>  sponsor="Incubator" startdate="2006-06-06" enddate="2008-11-08">
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [IP CLEARANCE] pulsar-admin-go

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

You need to svn co with https.

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2023, at 10:11 PM, Willem Jiang  wrote:
> 
> Hi tison,
> 
> You are in the Incubator PMC group. The svn right should be fine for
> you. You need to use your Apache ID and password to log in.
> I just helped you commit the file of pulsar-admin-go after doing some
> tests on my side.
> 
> Willem Jiang
> 
> Twitter: willemjiang
> Weibo: 姜宁willem
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 1:19 AM tison  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi IPMC,
>> 
>> Here is a IP CLEARANCE proposal for accepting pulsar-admin-go into the 
>> Apache Pulsar PMC by merging into apache/pulsar-client-go.
>> 
>> The vote thread within Pulsar PMC can be found at [1].
>> 
>> I wrote a IP CLEARANCE record (attached) but I cannot commit it to SVN with 
>> `svn ci`. I don't know whether I don't have the permission or I don't "log 
>> in" properly. I'll appreciate it if you can guide me the next steps.
>> 
>> $ svn co 
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/ip-clearance
>> $ svn add pulsar-admin-go.xml
>> A pulsar-admin-go.xml
>> $ svn ci -m "document IP clearance entry for pulsar-admin-go"
>> svn: E175013: Commit failed (details follow):
>> svn: E175013: Access to '/repos/asf/!svn/me' forbidden
>> 
>> Best,
>> tison.
>> 
>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/txpxdkzf4n5dd6bm0goqxfycr69g9gc4
>> 
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Re: New Mentor Question: IP Clearance

[Dave Fisher]

IP Clearance is for existing PMCs as a process separate from incubation. During 
Incubation it is expected that IP us being built and brought in to the podling. 
Mentors should ensure that any SGA or IP diligence needed is filed and reported 
as part of the podling status file.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 2, 2023, at 11:47 AM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
> There is a recent thread with some details but maybe someone can provide 
> more.
> 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/h11mkl9yd9584dnqv8qoyg8r6ftg2qp1
> 
>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 19:32, Brian Proffitt  wrote:
>> 
>> As a Champion/Mentor for KIE, I need to start the IP clearance process, and
>> the workflow described in the IP Clearance page[1] clearly states:
>> 
>> "This form is not for new projects.
>> This is for projects and PMCs that have already been created and are
>> receiving a code donation into an existing codebase. Any code that was
>> developed outside of the ASF SVN repository and our public mailing lists
>> must be processed like this, even if the external developer is already an
>> ASF committer.
>> 
>> "Incubating projects should follow the procedure described in the incubator
>> mentor guide and report status via STATUS tracking."
>> 
>> Okay, cool, so I follow the link to the incubator mentor guide[2] and
>> there's only a self-referencing anchor link about "Start IP clearance"
>> 
>> The question: what is the procedure I need to follow?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> BKP
>> 
>> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html
>> [2] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/mentor.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Brian Proffitt
>> VP, Marketing & Publicity
> 
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Re: [DISCUSSION] The retirement of the Apache DataLab (Moving to Apache Attic)

[Dave Fisher]

Podlings just “retire", we’ve never moved podlings to the Attic. What 
retirement means can vary from podling to podling. See 
https://incubator.apache.org/projects/#retired

One example was OpenZipken which “retired” to https://zipkin.io when the 
community decided that the Apache Way was not for them.

Best,
Dave

> On Aug 2, 2023, at 3:10 AM, Ayush Saxena  wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> -Ayush
> 
>> On 02-Aug-2023, at 2:13 PM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
>> 
>> It appears the DataLab community has voted to retire the project.
>> 
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/v238c8hnwn1sn58v7xglo6dk4phcw5v3
>> 
>> If that is what they want then I support moving DataLab to the Attic.
>> 
>>> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 09:28, Ruslan Kulynych  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> The DataLab project has been in the incubator for too long, as a result 
>>> many developers have moved on to other projects,
>>> which has caused the project to slow down significantly, especially in the 
>>> last seven months.
>>> So I'd like to start a discussion about the project retirement and moving 
>>> it to the Apache Attic.
>>> The discussion will remain open for at least a week.
>>> Please share your thoughts.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ruslan Kulynych
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>> 
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Re: Incubator project status website failed to build since July 7th

[Dave Fisher]

Here is the fix which has worked its way through the clutch and website 
process. 

Author: wave
Date: Wed Aug  2 12:19:32 2023
New Revision: 1911409

URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1911409=rev 

Log:
Update the minimum podling count from 25 to 15

Modified:
   incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh

Modified: incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh
URL: 
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh?rev=1911409=1911408=1911409=diff
 

==
--- incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh (original)
+++ incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh Wed Aug  2 12:19:32 2023
@@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ CLUTCH_COUNT_2=`cat  clutch2pages.out |
echo "STATUS: pages: "$CLUTCH_COUNT_2

if [ "$CLUTCH_COUNT_1" = "$CLUTCH_COUNT_2" ]; then
-if [ $CLUTCH_COUNT_2 -lt 25 ]; then
+if [ $CLUTCH_COUNT_2 -lt 15 ]; then
exit 5
fi
svn status | grep [~M]


> On Aug 2, 2023, at 1:35 AM, Yu Li  wrote:
> 
> Hi Justin,
> 
> As titled, I noticed this when trying to update the Celeborn and Paimon
> project status through SVN [1]. Checking the build job [2], it has been
> failing ever since July 7th.
> 
> With some further checking, I found that the initial issue was introduced
> by a typo when updating pony mail status (r1910858), which was fixed by the
> recent changes (r1911355) but unfortunately another issue introduced on the
> clutch script...
> 
> I tried to further locate and resolve the issue but found myself lacking
> some experience. Could you help take a look here? Thanks.
> 
> CC the general@ ML just in case anyone else noticed the same issue.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Yu
> 
> [1]
> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Incubator/job/Incubator-SVN-Clutch-Analysis-part-1/1720/consoleFull
> [2]
> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Incubator/job/Incubator-GIT-Site-part-2/

Re: svn commit: r1911409 - /incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh

[Dave Fisher]

The clutch stopped building because the minimum podling count used to protect 
from failing jobs went below 25.

> On Aug 2, 2023, at 5:19 AM, w...@apache.org wrote:
> 
> Author: wave
> Date: Wed Aug  2 12:19:32 2023
> New Revision: 1911409
> 
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1911409=rev
> Log:
> Update the minimum podling count from 25 to 15
> 
> Modified:
>incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh
> 
> Modified: incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh
> URL: 
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh?rev=1911409=1911408=1911409=diff
> ==
> --- incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh (original)
> +++ incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.sh Wed Aug  2 12:19:32 2023
> @@ -27,7 +27,7 @@ CLUTCH_COUNT_2=`cat  clutch2pages.out |
> echo "STATUS: pages: "$CLUTCH_COUNT_2
> 
> if [ "$CLUTCH_COUNT_1" = "$CLUTCH_COUNT_2" ]; then
> -if [ $CLUTCH_COUNT_2 -lt 25 ]; then
> +if [ $CLUTCH_COUNT_2 -lt 15 ]; then
>   exit 5
> fi
> svn status | grep [~M]
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MENTORS] August 2023 Incubator report timeline

[Dave Fisher]

Thank you!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 29, 2023, at 7:12 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here is the August 2023 Incubator report timeline:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/August2023
> 
> Wed August 02 -- Podling reports due by end of day
> Sun August 06 -- Shepherd reviews due by end of day
> Sun August 06 -- Summary due by end of day
> Tue August 08 -- Mentor signoff due by end of day
> Wed August 09 -- Report submitted to Board
> Wed August 16 -- Board meeting
> 
> Expected to report are:
> Annotator
> Celeborn
> DevLake
> Liminal
> NLPCraft
> OpenDAL
> Paimon
> PonyMail
> SDAP
> StreamPark
> Toree
> Training
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin 
> 
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Re: clutch repo - is it incorrectly saying Pekko has no distribution area?

[Dave Fisher]

It looks like clutch updates may be failing for the last week or so.

It may be that we are under a podling count gate.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 19, 2023, at 8:04 AM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> It's possible that we haven't created the distribution area properly
> and if so, could someone point out how we can fix this?
> 
> Clutch Report
> 
> https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/
> 
> Heading P relates to the distribution area
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/
> 
> and this has
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/pekko
> 
> And this has a KEYS file and a release.
> 
> Is there something we missed? Is there some yml/xml/conf somewhere
> that we need to update?
> 
> Any pointers would be appreciated.
> 
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Re: July 2023 Incubator report timeline

[Dave Fisher]

The podlings.xml needs to be edited to update your project’s status - see 
https://incubator.apache.org/cookbook/podlings-xml.html#graduated_as_an_apache_tlp

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2023, at 7:49 PM, JUN GAO  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, I have completed it.
> 
> hulk  于2023年6月27日周二 18:25写道：
> 
>> Hi JUN,
>> 
>> I guess it should remove the  from the
>> seatunnel section in
>> 
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings.xml
>> instead of removing seatunnel.yml according to the graduation guide.
>> 
>>> On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 at 17:58, JUN GAO  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, Justin
>>> 
>>> If I remember correctly, I need to remove seatunnel.yml from
>>> 
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/content/podlings/
>>> Is that so?
>>> 
>>> Justin Mclean  于2023年6月21日周三 21:35写道：
>>> 
 Hi,
 
> Hi Justin, SeaTunnel already graduated, are we still need report to
> incubator?
 
 No you do not need to report. It would be good to update podlings.xml
>> to
 reflect this.
 
 Thanks,
 Justin
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>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Best Regards
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> EricJoy2048
>>> gaojun2...@gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> - *Hulk Lin*
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> 
> 
> EricJoy2048
> gaojun2...@gmail.com

Re: Question on GitHub

[Dave Fisher]

They are required to have an ASF served repository either SVN or GiT. Infra has 
setup the ability to keep the ASF git repository in sync with GitHub 
repositories in the Apache org space. Podlings starting incubation are supposed 
to transfer their repositories to the ASF.

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 27, 2023, at 6:33 AM, Brian Proffitt  wrote:
> 
> The KIE podling has a question that I don't know the answer to. They are
> wondering if they are required to mirror their source into the Apache
> GitHib organization? They will be hosting their code in their own GH repo,
> but they want to know if the mirror is necessary as well.
> 
> BKP
> 
> 
> Brian Proffitt
> VP, Marketing & Publicity
> Co-organizer, Community Over Code
> Member, Apache Software Foundation
> Member, Apache Community Development & Incubator PMCs
> Red Hat Open Source Program Office


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Re: [Podlings]Please check the checksum and signature link

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Calvin,

I think that since the ASF has moved from a mirror network to a CDN this 
requirement may have changed without proper updates.

Would you mind reaching out to infra to confirm.

Thanks,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 14, 2023, at 10:55 PM, Calvin Kirs  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 1:24 PM Riley Kuttruff  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Calvin,
>> 
>> Thanks for pointing that out. I'll get it addressed for the next vote 
>> threads.
> 
> Hi,
> you just need to change the checksum and signature link prefix on the
> download page [1] to downloads.apache.org.
> For example: 
> https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua/incubator/sdap/1.0.0-incubating/apache-sdap-ingester-1.0.0-incubating-src.tar.gz.asc
> to
> https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/sdap/1.0.0-incubating/apache-sdap-ingester-1.0.0-incubating-src.tar.gz.asc
> 
> [1] https://sdap.apache.org/downloads
>> 
>> -Riley
>> 
>>> On 2023/05/15 05:19:56 Calvin Kirs wrote:
>>> Hi Podlings,
>>> 
>>> Note that the links to the checksum and signature must not be to the
>>> mirror selector, but must be direct to downloads.apache.org.
>>> 
>>> I noticed that StreamPark and SDAP use the mirror address. If this is
>>> the case in other projects, please update it in time.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Best wishes！
>>> CalvinKirs
>>> 
>>> -
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Best wishes！
> CalvinKirs
> 
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Re: A little incubator game

[Dave Fisher]

I liked your original version better. This version never offers to make a 
frickin’ release. That ought to always be explicitly available. There are too 
many options now which makes this version of incubation too complex.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2023, at 5:48 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I made a few improvements (you many need to to a shift refresh to get the 
> latest changes).
> 
> Justin
> -
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Re: Apache tiles

[Dave]

Hi Laurent and PJ,

The Apache Roller project still uses Struts, Tiles and Velocity and I would
like to see the projects continue and move into Jakarta land. I have some
limited time to help out. What do y'all need help with?

Dave

On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 8:01 AM PJ Fanning  wrote:

> Hi Laurent,
> I don't want to write off the possibility of a Jakarta variant of
> Tiles joining the Apache Incubator - but the fact that Apache Tiles
> doesn't have an active community around it is going to be a major
> impediment. For Apache projects and podlings to succeed, they need a
> number of contributors to get involved.
> Could you start by putting your code up on Github or somewhere similar
> and adding documentation that highlights that you are looking for
> collaborators? Maybe there are some forums where some remaining users
> of Tiles can be contacted?
>
> There is no impediment to you simply releasing your Jakarta variant of
> Tiles yourself or via some organisation that you are involved with
> (e.g. a company that you work with). If you go this route, the ASF
> would look like to see that you remove all the ASF branding and
> ideally, change the package names.
>
> If you want to avoid having to do all the branding changes and see the
> new project join/rejoin the ASF, then I think that you'll need to come
> back to us with more collaborators and probably some indication that
> they are bought into keeping the project going over the foreseeable
> future.
>
> Regards,
> PJ
>
>
> On Sat, 18 Mar 2023 at 06:32, Laurent Schoelens
>  wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I’m working on Apache Tiles porting to Jakarta EE (without support of
> freemarker and velocity, since both of them are still going with javax API)
> and my work is going to reach it’s end – all builds are successful, jdk17
> baseline and updated dependencies (as far as I know) – but still uncommited
> to my personal github account.
> >
> > I know Tiles is in Attic land of Apache but I’d which to make this first
> step (Jakarta migration) go to open-source world, without creating new
> projects out of the box.
> > Tiles is a framework I use on a project, with Spring and since Spring 6
> has migrated to Jakarta API, I’m stuck to Spring 5.X if I stay on this.
> Changing technology is an option for frontend application but not until a
> good rework that may take months (or years, depending on time we have to do
> that migration).
> > Having a Tiles Jakarta port would be great since the technology itself
> is working well on my project.
> >
> > Do you know what can I do to make this properly, according to Apache
> work ?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
> >
> > Regards.
> > L. SCHOELENS
>
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Re: [VOTE] Retire the Spot podling

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 13, 2023, at 1:43 PM, Christian Grobmeier  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> as recently discussed, I think the Spot podling is ready for retirement. 
> 
> Several roll calls were made, like this one:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?priv...@spot.apache.org:2022-10
> 
> There has been no activity for a while; there are no signs of change soon.
> 
> Please vote:
> 
> [ ] +1, retire
> [ ] -1 don't retire, because...
> 
> Please don't hesitate to vote -1 if you feel this podling should remain. 
> 
> This vote will be kept open for at least the usual 72 hours.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Christian
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Retire PageSpeed

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 13, 2023, at 1:47 PM, Christian Grobmeier  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> as recently discussed, I think the PageSpeed podling is ready for retirement. 
> 
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/jxw7mqmpcfxxp0mnnx28o0k78tym507b
> 
> There has been no activity for a while; there are no signs of change soon.
> 
> Please vote:
> 
> [ ] +1, retire
> [ ] -1 don't retire, because...
> 
> Please don't hesitate to vote -1 if you feel this podling should remain. 
> 
> This vote will be kept open for at least the usual 72 hours.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Christian
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal for Paimon

[Dave Fisher]

An interesting proposal. Since Paimon is already part of Apache Flink does the 
podling intend to graduate as it’s own Top Level Project? Or, is the plan 
currently to become a subproject of Flink? I’m just curious. Were there any 
discussions within the Flink community about incubating Paimon?

Best Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 23, 2023, at 7:58 PM, Yu Li  wrote:
> 
> Revision: the hyperlink of the first reference is incorrect and please use
> the website address directly instead of clicking it (sorry for my mistake).
> 
> For easier reference: https://github.com/apache/flink-table-store
> 
> Best Regards,
> Yu
> 
> 
>> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 11:48, Yu Li  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to propose Paimon [1] as a new apache incubator project, and
>> you can find the proposal [2] of Paimon for more details.
>> 
>> 
>> Paimon is a unified lake storage to build dynamic tables for both stream
>> and batch processing with big data compute engines (Apache Flink, Apache
>> Spark, Apache
>> Hive, Trino, etc.), supporting high-speed data ingestion and real-time data 
>> query.
>> With the adoption of stream processing in production, there is an increasing 
>> demand for storage to simultaneously support updates, deletes and streaming 
>> reads,
>> which cannot be fully satisfied by existing lake storages. To tackle these
>> new challenges, Paimon
>> natively adopts LSM (Log-Structured Merge-tree) as its underlying data 
>> structure, and provides enhanced performance for data with primary keys
>> (besides
>> the common lake storage capabilities). What's more, Paimon supports both 
>> batch and stream operations (reads and writes), facilitating applications 
>> pursuing batch-stream-unified semantics. Specifically:
>> 
>> 
>> 1. Paimon provides excellent performance on the intensive update
>> / delete workload, leveraging the append-write feature of the LSM data
>> structure.
>> 
>> 2. Paimon utilizes the ordered feature of LSM to support effective filter
>> pushdown, and could reduce
>> the latency of queries with primary key filtering to milliseconds.
>> 
>> 3.
>> Paimon supports various (row-based or row-columnar) file formats including 
>> Apache Avro, Apache ORC and Apache Parquet (rows will be sorted by the 
>> primary key before writing out).
>> 
>> 4.
>> Tables provided by Paimon can be queried by various engines, including 
>> Apache Flink, Apache Spark, Apache Hive, Trino, etc.
>> 
>> 5.
>> Paimon's metadata is self-managed, stored on the distributed file system and 
>> can be synchronized to Hive metastore (HMS).
>> 
>> 6.
>> Besides the common batch read and write support, Paimon also supports 
>> streaming read and change data feed.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paimon has been used by various users and companies, including Alibaba, 
>> Bilibili, ByteDance and so on. Paimon is also integrated into Alibaba 
>> Cloud's E-MapReduce and Realtime Compute products to provide cloud services.
>> 
>> 
>> Paimon was founded in the Flink community in 2022 with the name of "Flink 
>> Table Store”.
>> It has been developed for more than one year and produced 4 formal
>> releases. As its adoption expands to more computing engines, some of the 
>> ecology users express their concerns about the neutrality of the project. 
>> This makes us rethink the positioning of Flink Table Store, which can be an 
>> independent lake storage.
>> 
>> 
>> With adequate discussions, we have got the support from the Flink community 
>> to enter Apache incubation
>> [3] [4], with the below expectations:
>> 
>> 1.
>> Expand Paimon's ecosystem, providing independent Java APIs to support 
>> reading and writing from more big data engines such as Apache
>> Doris, Apache Hive, Apache Presto, Apache Spark, Trino, etc.
>> 
>> 2.
>> Supplement key capabilities, especially streaming reads and intensive 
>> updates/deletes,  for creating a unified and easy-to-use streaming data 
>> warehouse (lakehouse).
>> 
>> 3. Grow into a more vibrant and neutral open source community.
>> 
>> 
>> And we believe the Paimon project will provide tremendous value for the
>> community if it is introduced into the Apache incubator.
>> 
>> 
>> I will help this project as the champion and mentor the project together
>> with three other mentors (many thanks):
>> 
>> 
>> * Becket Qin (j...@apache.org)
>> 
>> * Robert Metzger (rmetz...@apache.o

Re: [QUESTION] are binary distributions/releases required?

[Dave Fisher]

Hi PJ,

Daffodil uses sbt and produces binary releases - 
https://daffodil.apache.org/releases/3.4.0/
- https://GitHub.com/Apache/daffodil/

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 8, 2023, at 6:33 AM, PJ Fanning  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> The release management guide [1] only mentions 'source releases'. Every 
> Apache project that I am familiar with also does binary releases. For 
> applications, this makes sense - having a zip/tgz file that you can download 
> and extract - that you can then readily start the application using a shell 
> script. For libs, I'm sure these binary releases can be useful too but I'm 
> wondering if they are strictly required.
> 
> Apache Pekko is a set of libraries as opposed to an application. Our build 
> uses the sbt build tool and there isn't anything that I've come across that 
> would produce something like the binary releases that other Apache projects 
> release. This means we'd likely have to roll our own solution. 
> 
> In terms of prioritising work towards a v1.0.0 release, it's useful to know 
> if we have items that could be de-prioritised.
> 
> If we do need to create binary releases, are there any guidelines to follow - 
> or do we just look at other Apache libs and use their binary releases as a 
> guide? 
> 
> Regards,
> PJ
> 
> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/releasemanagement.html
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Retire Heron from the Incubator

[Dave Fisher]

+1 [x] Retire Heron from the Incubator

I also want to write that Josh has really tried to make this podling happen. 
The community had a very slow start and then early on much of the community 
moved on to other technology.

Regards,
Dave

> On Jan 12, 2023, at 7:20 AM, Josh Fischer  wrote:
> 
> I think it's time to retire Heron from the incubator.  Activity has been
> close to non-existent on the mailing list. Also [1] after sending out a
> [VOTE] several voted +1 to retire the project.
> 
> The vote is by lazy consensus and runs for 72 hours.
> 
> +1 [ ] Retire Heron from the Incubator
> -1 [ ] Do not retire Heron from the Incubator
> 
> Here is my vote:
> +1 [x] Retire Heron from the Incubator
> 
> - Josh
> 
> 1. https://lists.apache.org/thread/hxn9hvmr76zy0f3o9ddsng10tf88qzs8


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Re: Looking for a champion: HyperIoT

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2023, at 5:42 AM, Christofer Dutz  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> So, I did have a look at the website and indeed it looks interesting.
> However, when I looked at the GitHub repo and the GPL2 yelled at me.
> 
> Are you able to do a re-licensing? I mean … can you ask everyone who 
> contributed to the project if they agree to re-licensing it under the Apache 
> 2.0 license?

The only community to go through the Petri process accomplished this license 
conversion from GPL.

petri.apache.org

This was BuildStream which was a gnu project community.

If there is a community Petri might be a good start.
> 
> If that’s not possible, I guess this is the end of the line for Apache. If 
> it’s possible I am still keeping my hand up for being your Mentor and 
> possibly championing the project.

I noticed that this project is heavily dependent on Storm. I strongly suggest 
that they get involved in that project ASAP.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> From: Christofer Dutz 
> Date: Thursday, 12. January 2023 at 14:22
> To: general@incubator.apache.org 
> Subject: Re: Looking for a champion: HyperIoT
> Hi all,
> 
> well … it being used is not a requirement … some projects have been joining 
> Apache even without a single user, but we want at least a minimum on 
> community around it.
> 
> As I’m really into the (I)IoT topic and I currently have one Mentoring slot 
> open … I would be raising my hand for being interested to help.
> 
> Give me a bit of time to read up on what the project is about.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> From: Enrico Olivelli 
> Date: Thursday, 12. January 2023 at 11:26
> To: general@incubator.apache.org 
> Subject: Re: Looking for a champion: HyperIoT
> Piergiorgio,
> Is this project already OSS ?
> Is this project already used by other companies?
> 
> If it doesn't meet those requirements I don't think that it will have
> a happy story in the Incubator.
> 
> I have never been a Mentor for an incubating project but I have been
> following this list for quite some time,
> and my understanding is that a project that wants to enter the ASF
> MUST already be an OSS project with active users.
> 
> just my 2 cents
> Enrico
> 
>> Il giorno gio 12 gen 2023 alle ore 09:17 tison 
>> ha scritto:
>> 
>>> I'm an ASF Member, I could also help here for writing the proposal but I'm
>>> not a PMC member for the Incubator project, I'm a committer for my past
>>> incubation experience related to Apache ManifoldCF.
>> 
>> FYI, as an ASF Member, you can request to become a IPMC member anytime:
>> 
>>> Individuals may be nominated to join the IPMC after a vote which passes.
>> Individuals may choose to bring themselves or others to the attention of
>> the IPMC. Additionally, any Member of the Apache Software Foundation may
>> join the IPMC by request.
>> 
>> ... from https://incubator.apache.org/guides/roles_and_responsibilities.html
>> .
>> 
>> Best,
>> tison.
>> 
>> 
>> Piergiorgio Lucidi  于2023年1月12日周四 16:06写道：
>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> 
>>> ACSoftware contacted me because they would like to donate their platform
>>> named HyperIoT to the Foundation. I'm searching for a champion to build the
>>> incubation proposal.
>>> 
>>> I'm an ASF Member, I could also help here for writing the proposal but I'm
>>> not a PMC member for the Incubator project, I'm a committer for my past
>>> incubation experience related to Apache ManifoldCF.
>>> 
>>> They currently published only the backend services on their GitHub account
>>> but they are going to also share all the UI modules:
>>> https://github.com/ACSoftwareTeam/HyperIoT-Platform
>>> 
>>> You can find more information and some screenshots here:
>>> https://hyperiot.cloud/
>>> 
>>> Below is an overview of this platform.
>>> 
>>> HyperIoT is an OpenSource Cloud Native platform entirely based on Apache
>>> Technologies for managing big data from any IoT network.
>>> The platform captures the information sent from any source by managing data
>>> compression, running statistics or machine/deep learning algorithms,
>>> presenting data to the end user in realtime and offline mode (saved data).
>>> 
>>> It consists of the following macro-components (entirely built on top of
>>> Apache Technologies):
>>> 
>>> - Realtime and Enrichments (Kafka and Storm): Realtime configuration and
>>> visualization of data coming from sources with the possibility of defining
>>> e

Re: [VOTE] KIE proposal acceptance

[Dave Fisher]

While I have some concerns about the size of the project I trust the Champion 
and Mentors.

Should the Mentors feel they need help then please reach out here.

+1 (binding)

> On Jan 10, 2023, at 9:21 AM, Brian Proffitt  wrote:
> 
> +1 (binding)
> 
> On 2023/01/09 14:50:56 Jason Porter wrote:
>> I'd like to call a vote for the acceptance of KIE as an Apache Incubator 
>> project as the conversation around the proposal has ended. The proposal is 
>> available at [1].
>> 
>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/KIE+Proposal
>> 
>> Jason Porter
>> Software Engineer
>> He/Him/His
>> 
>> IBM
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: Are programming languages suitable for Apache?

[Dave Fisher]

Apache Groovy - https://groovy.apache.org/

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 6, 2023, at 1:46 PM, Rupert Smith 
>  wrote:
> 
> Its been a long time since I was last involved as an Apache committer. Back
> around 2004ish I contributed to the now defunct qpid project, which was an
> implementation of the AMQP messaging protocol.
> 
> These days, I am quite keen on the Elm programming language, but it is not
> possible to contribute to its compiler+core packages, as only the BDFL
> there has commit rights. The quality of the software is very high, and
> there have been very few serious issues since its last release, but always
> amongst the Elm community there is a recurring sense of frustration that
> patches are ignored. It would seem eventually that some kind of community
> fork needs to happen, if businesses using Elm are to feel secure in their
> adoption of it. For this reason, I and others are exploring options.
> 
> I like the values of Apache - openness, independance and plurality of
> contributors - adopting some of the "Apache way" would seem to make sense
> for a hypothetical fork of Elm.
> 
> I looked at the list of Apache projects, and noticed that none are
> programming languages (correct? Apache Harmony as an implementation of Java
> was one). This also makes me wonder if Apache is a suitable place for such
> a project. There are benefits to the bus-factor 1 BDFL model - a
> programming language is a complex thing with sometimes subtle interactions
> between its language features. Opinions are many, but turning them into a
> cohesive set of ideas that make up a good language is not easy, so avoiding
> all the distracting arguments by having things tightly controlled by a
> single BDFL does make sense, and is not uncommon.
> 
> On the other hand, what is really needed in this situation is the ability
> to patch Elm, and to have a well run open source project through which to
> do so.
> 
> So I am curious to hear your thoughts on whether Apache is a suitable place
> for a programming language and compiler project?

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation

[Dave Fisher]

Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow 
explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion.

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang  wrote:
> 
> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release checking.
> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still
> need to pay lots of attention to community building.
> 
> 
> Willem Jiang
> 
> Twitter: willemjiang
> Weibo: 姜宁willem
> 
>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello folks,
>> 
>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation at 
>> Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it applies 
>> to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed to create 
>> enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all incubation checks.
>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later as 
>> well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded 
>> successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect 
>> this trend to continue and mature.
>> 
>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the 
>> incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows 
>> down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away 
>> from the project.
>> 
>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from what 
>> I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to attract 
>> contributors on our own.
>> 
>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been 
>> helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious 
>> time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator.
>> 
>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience building 
>> with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's time and 
>> attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the project is 
>> mature enough to function outside of the incubator.
>> 
>> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Antoine
>> 
>>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with considerable
>>> adoption falter.
>>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a contributing
>>> factor here.
>>> 
>>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and encountering
>>> attrition is different from TLP
>>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while
>>> others can fall off in a healthy way.
>>> 
>>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases
>>> demonstrates contributors in the community
>>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which
>>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity.
>>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker.
>>>> 
>>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free.
>>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done.
>>>> 
>>>> Just my opinion on this topic.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> From: Willem Jiang 
>>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59
>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org 
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
>>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a
>>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]).
>>>> 
>>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community
>>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have
>>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited
>>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and
>>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make
>>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much
>>>> higher if the

Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

As one of the podling’s mentors I think that Tuweni is more than ready to be a 
TLP.

Best,
Dave


Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 11, 2022, at 5:11 PM, larry mccay  wrote:
> 
> +1 to graduate Tuweni to TLP.
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 8:24 PM Antoine Toulme  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello folks,
>> 
>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation
>> at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it
>> applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed
>> to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all
>> incubation checks.
>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later
>> as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded
>> successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect
>> this trend to continue and mature.
>> 
>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the
>> incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows
>> down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away
>> from the project.
>> 
>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from
>> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to
>> attract contributors on our own.
>> 
>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been
>> helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious
>> time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator.
>> 
>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience
>> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's
>> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the
>> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator.
>> 
>> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Antoine
>> 
>>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with
>> considerable
>>> adoption falter.
>>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a
>> contributing
>>> factor here.
>>> 
>>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and
>> encountering
>>> attrition is different from TLP
>>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while
>>> others can fall off in a healthy way.
>>> 
>>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases
>>> demonstrates contributors in the community
>>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz <
>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which
>>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity.
>>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker.
>>>> 
>>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free.
>>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done.
>>>> 
>>>> Just my opinion on this topic.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> From: Willem Jiang 
>>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59
>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org 
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
>>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a
>>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]).
>>>> 
>>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community
>>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have
>>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited
>>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and
>>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make
>>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much
>>>> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond
>>>> to feedback and questions for lack of time."
>>>> 
>>>> [1]
>>>> 
>> https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/m

Re: [VOTE] Graduate Apache Flagon as Top Level Project

[Dave Fisher]

+1(binding)

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 1, 2022, at 6:57 PM, Joshua Poore  wrote:
> 
> Hello Incubator,
> 
> Following a DISCUSSION on general@incubator [0], we are calling a VOTE to 
> Graduate Apache Flagon from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level project. 
> Please VOTE accordingly:
> 
> [ ] + 1 : Apache Flagon is ready to graduate as a TLP
> [ ]   0  : Let’s DISCUSS some more
> [ ] - 1  : I have some concerns that should be addressed (please state)
> 
> Thank You in advance for participating in the VOTE. The VOTE will be open for 
> at least 72 hours.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Joshua Poore (Flagon PPMC)
> 
> 
> 
> Flagon has been incubating since 2016-07-13 (originally ‘SensSoft’ [1]). 
> During our incubation, the Flagon project developed steadily, developing 
> viable open-source capability and doing so with democratized governance and 
> commitment to productization, maintenance, and experimentation. Throughout 
> our long incubation, our close and consistent community followed the Apache 
> Way.
> 
> About Apache Flagon: 
> 
> Apache Flagon is an open-soure, thin-client behavioral logging capability 
> useful for business analytics, usage analytics, usability and user testing. 
> It's also for science into how information technology is used. Flagon 
> supports a range of streamlined deployment schemas ranging from single 
> webpage analysis to enterprise level monitoring, making it easy to collect 
> data without heavy modification of your own code. Using Elastic products, 
> Flagon makes it easy to scale, integrate other services, access your data and 
> get the insights you need out of it. In the spirit of customization, the 
> Apache Flagon project collects a number of modular products and capabilities 
> to help you build the stack that suites your needs.
> 
> Our community and our mentors believe that Flagon has met the Incubator’s 
> maturity model[2]. We believe that we are ready to graduate from the 
> Incubator as a self-governing, Top-Level Project.
> 
> Specifically, 
> 
> 1. Our code is well curated, maintained, documented and released through 
> Apache processes and with the Apache (v2) License. 
> 2. Our code is broadly disseminated—through official Apache distribution, 
> NPM, GitHub (and soon PyPI).
> 3. We maintain an Apache-Compliant Website[3] to link users to official 
> release mirrors [4]
> 4. The community changed its name from 'SensSoft' to 'Flagon' to remove 
> corporate entanglement with the organization that originally initiated the 
> project, and has completed IP Clearance processes for ‘Flagon’ [5]
> 5. In total, we have produced 7 Apache releases with 4 different release 
> managers.
> 6. In the past year, we have onboarded 4 new committers, 1 new PPMC, and 
> accepted a major software grant from the University of Maryland; our 
> community is small, but active in VOTEs, Releases, and DISCUSSions. 
> 7. Governance is conducted and documented through Apache lists 
> 
> Our last Graduation discussion was 10/2020, at which point the Incubator 
> identified issues related to deprecated sub-projects and some committers that 
> were not subscribed to @private lists [6]. Since then we have resolved these 
> issues and continued to develop our products, grow our community, and operate 
> the Apache Way.
> 
> Our community has discussed graduation [7], VOTE’d in favor of it [8,9], and 
> the PPMC has reviewed our Graduation Resolution [10] (below).
> 
> -
> BEGIN DRAFT RESOLUTION
> -
> 
> Establish the Apache Flagon Project 
> 
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best interests of the 
> Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to establish a 
> Project Management Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of 
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the public, related to 
> behavioral logging capability useful for business analytics, usage analytics, 
> usability and user testing. 
> 
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management Committee (PMC), to 
> be known as the "Apache Flagon Project", be and hereby is established 
> pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it further 
> 
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Flagon Project be and hereby is responsible for the 
> creation and maintenance of software related to thin-client behavioral 
> logging capability useful for business analytics, usage analytics, usability 
> and user testing, and be it further 
> 
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Flagon" be and 

Re: package names (pekko related)

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2022, at 2:24 PM, Jean-Luc Deprez  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> So this discussion is currently revived on Pekko dev. But it's seems the
> cards are held by IPMC.
> 
> So a very concrete question.
> 
> Would someone here vote -1, for a Pekko release or Pekko graduation, for
> the sole reason of the package name being 'pekko.*' instead of
> org.apache.pekko.* ?

While org.apache.pekko is preferred as sebb explained the pekko packaging would 
be reasonable only if the existing community already expects and has existing 
code that uses that packaging.

That’s not the case here is it?

Regards,
Dave
> 
> Noting that the Maven group/org ID would just be: org.apache.pekko
> 
> If more than 2 IPMC members say yes, I think we can state it's off the
> table.
> 
> 
>> On 2022/10/12 15:58:51 sebb wrote:
>>> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 at 16:46, John D. Ament  wrote:
>>> 
>>> We should keep in mind that the trademarks requirements and the release
>>> requirements are two different sets of requirements.  They're often
>>> conflated.  The main thing to remember with trademarks and naming is
> that
>>> the first time a project is referenced in documentation, websites, etc,
> it
>>> must be referred to as "Apache " and subsequent calls can just be
>>> "".  This would mean that README files in the source repo refer to
> the
>>> project this way, descriptions on github repos etc are all named this
> way
>>> as well.  Likewise, our release process indicates the source tarball
> for a
>>> release is named "apache-...tar.gz" or similar.  The foundation has
>>> always had a waving stance on binary releases, e.g. the JAR files you
> might
>>> download from Maven Central.  The convention (not requirement) is that
>>> those JAR files are packaged under "org.apache.".  Unless there's a
>>> good reason not to, projects should follow this if they publish to
> maven.
>>> By similar convention, we have applied this to the package names used
> by a
>>> project.  The existing projects I was able to look at within the ASF all
>>> used scala in a hybrid format with java code, meaning they had a mix of
> the
>>> two and within a JAR file had both java and scala sourced files.
> They're
>>> not the best of examples as a result, but did all align to the
>>> "org.apache." naming convention.
>>> 
>>> there is no requirement to have your package name start with
>>> org.apache.pekko, but by convention this is what is seen.
>> 
>> There are good reasons for this.
>> The ASF 'owns' the org.apache prefix, and can therefore ensure
>> uniqueness of names within that.
>> 
>> Who owns pekko? What's to stop two different projects using
> pekko.somename?
>> 
>> Furthermore, if there is any code already using pekko.*, we should not
>> release code that uses the same prefix.
>> 
>>> A source release
>>> with source code starting with "pekko.*" would just as easily get a +1
> to
>>> release from me as "org.apache.pekko.*" as long as any documentation in
> the
>>> source release said Apache Pekko (Incubating).
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 2:37 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I can’t speak for maven but since Akka works with sbt its more likely
> to
>>>> use sbt-assembly to perform any shading which handles cases like this
> (i.e.
>>>> see https://github.com/sbt/sbt-assembly#merge-strategy and
>>>> https://github.com/sbt/sbt-assembly#shading).
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Matthew de Detrich
>>>> Aiven Deutschland GmbH
>>>> Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin
>>>> Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B
>>>> 
>>>> Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen
>>>> m: +491603708037
>>>> w: aiven.io e: matthew.dedetr...@aiven.io
>>>> On 11. Oct 2022, 07:37 -0500, tison , wrote:
>>>>> One point from the technical perspective:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I remember that akka's config use akka. prefix and it causes several
>>>> issues
>>>>> prevent you shaded it. That is, Maven Shaded Plugin cannot
> distinguish a
>>>>> string literal starts with akka. a config key or package name.
>>>>> 
>>>>> From this perspective, if possible, I tend to use org.apache.pekko
> in
>>>>> package name and use 

Re: [DISCUSS] What to do with long incubating projects?

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2022, at 5:38 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> Is there a maximum time for incubation?  Target?  I have not read incubator
>> docs closely.
> 
> Not really but we expect a projects to exit in 1-3 years, and at 4-5 years we 
> tend to ask them to retire, but it does vary.
> 
>> I could also see a dashboard with milestones [ various requirements for
>> graduation ] at various timelines, and whether projects are ahead/behind
>> 'schedule’.
> 
> I like the idea but it might hard to gauge - the Incubator podling reports 
> does have a general progress indicator.

You’ve forgotten about the clutch report.

https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/

Best Regards,
Dave
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
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> 

Re: Removed 'incubator.' from project status template

[Dave Fisher]

+1. Infra provides both urls immediately and incubator versions of urls live in 
the codebase forever.

The exception would be git repository names and svn dist paths.

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2022, at 11:50 AM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
> FYI, I removed 'incubator' from the project status template [1]. In
> Baremaps we concluded that we wanted the shorter URL and email
> addresses that would survive into graduation. And I figured that the
> next podling would want to do the same.
> 
> If there are objections I can back it out.
> 
> Julian
> 
> [1] 
> https://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/public/trunk/content/projects/incubation-status-template.xml?r1=1882331=1904748_format=h
> 
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Re: [DISCUSS] Remove 72 hour waiting time to add PPMC members.

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2022, at 3:46 PM, Justin Mclean  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> The board recently changed the 72-hour waiting time to add a PMC member to a 
> top level project. We have the same 72-hour waiting time to add PPMC members 
> to a podling. 
> 
> Do we want to consider removing this 72-hour waiting time and just require a 
> PMC to notify the IPMC that they want to add someone?

Let’s just require that they notify that a PPMC member has been added.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
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Re: [VOTE] Retire Hivemall from Incubator

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2022, at 11:57 PM, Calvin Kirs  wrote:
> 
> Hi IPMC,
> 
> Hivemall has been incubating since 2016-09-13.
> 
> From last year, activity has been low and the chances of attracting new
> committers and building a vibrant community seem very slim at this point.
> 
> The dev community vote was started by the PPMC for over a month and
> can be found here[1],[2]
> 
> I therefore propose to retire Hivemall from the Incubator.
> 
> I want to start this official vote.
> 
> Voting will start now and will remain open for at least 72 hours.
> 
> Notice: Because the dev vote didn't get enough +1's, this vote is not
> the same as usual, it's not a laze vote.
> 
> [ ] +1 Retire the project
> [ ] +0 No opinion.
> [ ] -1 Do not retire the project because...
> 
> [1]https://lists.apache.org/thread/3s7bjgqm7864qbwnf1ny3lszklm65sgn
> [2]https://lists.apache.org/thread/cv267tds166z7vtbzjt46nrz26xhzgvb
> 
> -- 
> Best wishes！
> CalvinKirs
> 
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Re: [VOTE] Accept StreamPark into the Apache Incubator

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Julian,

This is very true. I’m also dismayed by -1 votes based on not yet having 
explicit plans on removing LGPL/GPL dependencies. Following Apache Release 
policy is a to do to learn during Incubation. The real question is if the 
community accepts that their release cycle will be slowed.

Best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
> A few people on this thread are voting -1 with the rationale that
> StreamPark is similar to existing projects. This is not a valid
> reason. Apache does not try to ensure that projects don't overlap.
> 
> The 'community over code' mantra holds true: Apache does not pick
> technologies, it builds communities. There are many examples of
> 'overlapping' projects that have built their own communities and
> flourished (HTTP Server vs Tomcat, Spark vs Flink, Druid vs Pinot, ORC
> vs Parquet).
> 
> Julian
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 12:17 PM Zur Aviem  wrote:
>> 
>> -1,
>> 
>> Apache InLong[1] is a one-stop integration framework for massive data that
>> provides automatic, secure and reliable data transmission capabilities.
>> InLong supports both batch and stream data processing at the same time,
>> which offers great power to build data analysis, modeling and other
>> real-time applications based on streaming data.
>> 
>> The streamxhub[2] aims to make stream processing easier! easy-to-use stream
>> processing application development framework and one-stop stream processing
>> operation platform.
>> 
>> From my side, the planning and design of Apache Inlong and streamxhub
>> projetc is consistent. Is it necessary to create a new project?
>> 
>> And there are still many problems that have not been solved in the
>> discussion email[3].
>> 
>> Kind Regards,
>> Beam, Aviem Zur
>> 
>> [1] https://inlong.apache.org/
>> [2] https://github.com/streamxhub/streampark
>> [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/ns5n6ozl1mdvdbhmkfol67lt163m74v3
>> 
>>> On 2022/08/24 03:55:26 tison wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Following up on the [DISCUSS] thread on StreamPark[1], I would like to
>> call
>>> a VOTE to accept StreamPark into the Apache Incubator, please check out
>> the
>>> StreamPark Proposal from the incubator wiki[2].
>>> 
>>> Please cast your vote:
>>> 
>>> [ ] +1, bring StreamPark into the Incubator
>>> [ ] +0, I don't care either way
>>> [ ] -1, do not bring StreamPark into the Incubator, because...
>>> 
>>> The vote will open at least for 72 hours, and only votes from the
>> Incubator
>>> PMC are binding, but votes from everyone are welcome.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> tison.
>>> 
>>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/ns5n6ozl1mdvdbhmkfol67lt163m74v3
>>> [2]
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/StreamPark+Proposal
>>> 
> 
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Re: Any incubation proposal template for projects which leaving the attic.

[Dave Fisher]

I’m glad Ambari is out of the Attic! Congratulations!

Information about how to take projects out of the Attic is the Attic PMC’s 
responsibility!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 20, 2022, at 6:14 PM, Brahma Reddy Battula  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>>> Honestly, I think if we can find 3 ative ASF members to be on the PMC
>>> (which seems to be the case -- myself very much interested!) we can
>>> just bring it back and bootstrap the rest of the community
>>> organically.
> 
> 
> Just to close this thread.  Currently https://attic.apache.org/ does n't
> have this info, Can we document this like "how one attic project can become
> TLP" which I come across now? if it's already documented,please ignore it
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 7:10 PM Brahma Reddy Battula 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks a lot Suhas And Roman for heads up..
>> 
>> One good news is that the attic team has confirmed[1] that ambari can
>> leave (undo [2]) attic..
>> 
>> Now we've enough ASF members who are involved in the project,I think we
>> can move forward.
>> 
>> 
>>>   Atri Sharma
>>>   Devaraj Das
>>>   Vitthal Suhas Gogate
>>>   Roman Shaposhnik
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1) https://lists.apache.org/thread/jw3klrqp743o824yzxfx9d73vj83x0gd
>> 2) https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ATTIC-202
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2022 at 2:35 AM Suhas  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hey Roman, I and Bramha we work at VISA where we plan to continue using
>>> Ambari and improve it along the way.. I was previously PMC/Committer on
>>> Ambari and would very much like to work with you in bringing back this
>>> project.
>>> 
>>> I was planning to call few old members I know who were active in Ambari.
>>> 
>>> If it's okay, I will call you sometime this week to get your thoughts.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> --Suhas
>>> 
>>> On 2022/06/07 09:21:13 Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 4, 2022 at 12:04 PM Justin Mclean 
>>> wrote:
> 
> HI,
> 
> Depending on who is involved in the project, it may not even require
>>> to go through the incubator again. Having more details would help with this.
 
 What Justin said!
 
 Honestly, I think if we can find 3 ative ASF members to be on the PMC
 (which seems to be the case -- myself very much interested!) we can
 just bring it back and bootstrap the rest of the community
 organically.
 
 Thanks,
 Roman.
 
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 For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
 
 
>>> 
>>> -
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --Brahma Reddy Battula
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> --Brahma Reddy Battula


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Re: [VOTE] Retire Crail

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 6, 2022, at 12:48 PM, Julian Hyde  wrote:
> 
> After years of declining activity[1][2], and following discussions on
> dev@ [3][4] the Crail podling has voted to retire from incubation
> [5][6]. Per policy [7] I am proposing an IPMC vote to retire Crail.
> 
> The vote is by lazy consensus and runs for 72 hours.
> 
> +1 [ ] Retire Crail from the Incubator
> -1 [ ] Do not retire Crail from the Incubator
> 
> Here is my vote:
> +1 [x] Retire Crail from the Incubator
> 
> Julian Hyde
> (Member IPMC, Crail mentor)
> 
> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/crail.html
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@crail.apache.org
> [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/6hxkph98gobb5y7lrvx62rgr6ob9o91h
> [4] https://lists.apache.org/thread/9n08m29xgpshs4f2wxgspm4tlt44r98g
> [5] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xzss2o1oj2k85bbhvx883ojlrlozg3zm
> [6] https://lists.apache.org/thread/7165g55mrchzrlmhczfgybgzlnl2hxpj
> [7] https://incubator.apache.org/guides/retirement.html#deciding_to_retire
> 
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Re: Any incubation proposal template for projects which leaving the attic.

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2022, at 8:45 PM, Brahma Reddy Battula  wrote:
> 
> There are companies and people want to bring back Ambari..

Who are the individual people? Were any contributors, committers, and/or PMC 
members of Ambari.

> And we got the
> champion and mentors..

Generally mentors are ASF members which is good.

> We can share during the proposal.
> 
> Is there any special template?

The Attic PMC has to agree to whatever process is followed and incubation is 
one of four options.

IMO the discussion going on gene...@attic.apache.org should continue with you 
providing your list of individuals. I’ll follow up in that thread.

Regards,
Dave
> 
> 
>> On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 11:34 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jun 2, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Brahma Reddy Battula 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 6:53 AM, Dave Fisher 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Taking projects out of the attic has only happened one time. It was done
>>>> by a PMC.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is it happened on roll call ? And it’s mnemonic??
>> 
>> It was XMLBeans. Apache POI uses XMLBeans and needed to fix XML Entity
>> Expansion Security issues and use modern JDKs. It took some time to work
>> out the process and it required a Board Resolution to give the POI PMC
>> responsibility.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Please tell us which project and if you have a community?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ambari
>> 
>> OK. Ambari had some dependencies on Cloudera. Cloudera put that behind a
>> paywall a year ago.
>> 
>> See https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Ambari.html#2021-05-19 <
>> https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Ambari.html#2021-05-19>
>> 
>> Ambari eventually released a 2.7.6 which may not have been proper and then
>> they retired in January.
>> 
>> How many people do you have interested in taking Ambari out of the Attic?
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 2, 2022, at 6:19 PM, Brahma Reddy Battula 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have gone through the process to leave the attic[1].
>>>>> Once after I fork the code,For incubation proposal any specific
>> template
>>>>> and guidelines needs to be followed..?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any pointers will be appreciated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. https://attic.apache.org/
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --Brahma Reddy Battula
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --Brahma Reddy Battula
>> 
>> --
> 
> 
> 
> --Brahma Reddy Battula


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Re: Any incubation proposal template for projects which leaving the attic.

[Dave Fisher]

> On Jun 2, 2022, at 6:38 PM, Brahma Reddy Battula  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 6:53 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
>> Taking projects out of the attic has only happened one time. It was done
>> by a PMC.
>> 
> 
> Is it happened on roll call ? And it’s mnemonic??

It was XMLBeans. Apache POI uses XMLBeans and needed to fix XML Entity 
Expansion Security issues and use modern JDKs. It took some time to work out 
the process and it required a Board Resolution to give the POI PMC 
responsibility.


> 
> 
>> Please tell us which project and if you have a community?
> 
> 
> Ambari

OK. Ambari had some dependencies on Cloudera. Cloudera put that behind a 
paywall a year ago.

See https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Ambari.html#2021-05-19 
<https://whimsy.apache.org/board/minutes/Ambari.html#2021-05-19>

Ambari eventually released a 2.7.6 which may not have been proper and then they 
retired in January.

How many people do you have interested in taking Ambari out of the Attic?

> 
> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 2, 2022, at 6:19 PM, Brahma Reddy Battula 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> I have gone through the process to leave the attic[1].
>>> Once after I fork the code,For incubation proposal any specific template
>>> and guidelines needs to be followed..?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Any pointers will be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> 1. https://attic.apache.org/
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --Brahma Reddy Battula
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> --
> 
> 
> 
> --Brahma Reddy Battula

Re: Any incubation proposal template for projects which leaving the attic.

[Dave Fisher]

Taking projects out of the attic has only happened one time. It was done by a 
PMC.

Please tell us which project and if you have a community?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 2, 2022, at 6:19 PM, Brahma Reddy Battula  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I have gone through the process to leave the attic[1].
> Once after I fork the code,For incubation proposal any specific template
> and guidelines needs to be followed..?
> 
> 
> Any pointers will be appreciated.
> 
> 1. https://attic.apache.org/
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> --Brahma Reddy Battula


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Re: Proposal

[Dave Fisher]

Develop an open community and develop in the open. If the community starts to 
grow then come back and ask for guidance in how to make your open source 
community an ASF community.

Did I mention open and community enough?

All the best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 16, 2022, at 10:47 PM, m sacks  wrote:
> 
> Not sure if this made it:
> Just a term of endearment, mot taken to be meant literally.
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Initially the community would be a private group put together by me.
> 
> Then we can discuss building it once others have decided if it’s even a
> useful application first?
> 
>> On Mon, May 16, 2022 at 10:20 PM Daniel Widdis  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not an ASF warlord or general.  In fact, I don't think such things
>> exist. It's about community.  Decisions are made by communities.  Warlords,
>> generals, and benevolent dictators don't fit well.
>> 
>> Related, I don't see anything "community" in your post. You state "I" have
>> got code, not "we".
>> 
>> You can have the best code in the universe, but if you don't have a
>> community developing it, it's not really a good fit here.
>> 
>> So tell us less about your code and more about your community developing
>> it.
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/16/22, 10:05 PM, "m sacks"  wrote:
>> 
>>I have some gpt3 based python code to simulate leonardo da vinci as a
>>chatbot proof of concept. I think it could be useful, but i am not
>> sure, so
>>i leave it to the council of ASF warlords and generals to decide if the
>>code should be incubated?
>> 
>> 
>>I have not shared sources as of yet.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 


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Re: Question - are the confluence diffs readable for the Incubator report?

[Dave Fisher]

Here’s a future thought. Reach out to dev@community to see if the reporter tool 
can be adapted for podling reports.

We would need to define our use cases as that tool is setup for TLP board 
reports

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2022, at 8:01 PM, Josh Fischer  wrote:
> 
> I agree that the diffs are rather large sometimes, and it's often
> challenging to see what has changed.  The notifications of someone
> modifying the report are nice, but the unsummarized diffs that are
> generated are a bit pointless.   Do you know of a way to make them more
> readable?
> 
>> On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 8:40 AM John D. Ament  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> I've been struggling to read the diffs that confluence generates.  I also
>> looked on the web, and with how we load the report it's just a big lob of
>> data.  Can't really tell what changed.
>> 
>> What do others think?
>> 
>> John
>> 


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[RESULT][VOTE] Retire BlueMarlin

[Dave Fisher]

The vote passes with 15 +1 (binding) and 1 +1 (non-binding) vs. no -1s

Regards,
Dave

> On Feb 22, 2022, at 10:57 PM, Kevin Ratnasekera  
> wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 2:54 AM Lidong Dai  wrote:
> 
>> +1 to retire
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> Apache DolphinScheduler PMC Chair & Apache SeaTunnel PPMC
>> Lidong Dai
>> lidong...@apache.org
>> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dailidong
>> Twitter: @WorkflowEasy <https://twitter.com/WorkflowEasy>
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Atri Sharma  wrote:
>> 
>>> +1 to retire
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 16 Feb 2022, 14:10 Willem Jiang,  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> +1 to retired.
>>>> 
>>>> Willem Jiang
>>>> 
>>>> Twitter: willemjiang
>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 7:20 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please vote to retire BlueMarlin. This is a group that has made no
>>>> progress as an Apache podling. There is no interest in developing a
>>>> community. They’ve had multiple chances.
>>>>> 
>>>>> [ ] +1 Retire BlueMarlin
>>>>> [ ] -1 Keep BlueMarlin and I’m willing to join to make it an Apache
>>>> Community.
>>>>> -
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 


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Re: [VOTE] Retire BlueMarlin

[Dave Fisher]

Here is my +1.

> On Feb 15, 2022, at 3:20 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Please vote to retire BlueMarlin. This is a group that has made no progress 
> as an Apache podling. There is no interest in developing a community. They’ve 
> had multiple chances.
> 
> [ ] +1 Retire BlueMarlin
> [ ] -1 Keep BlueMarlin and I’m willing to join to make it an Apache Community.


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[VOTE] Retire BlueMarlin

[Dave Fisher]

Please vote to retire BlueMarlin. This is a group that has made no progress as 
an Apache podling. There is no interest in developing a community. They’ve had 
multiple chances.

[ ] +1 Retire BlueMarlin
[ ] -1 Keep BlueMarlin and I’m willing to join to make it an Apache Community.
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Re: clutch analysis part 1 failing: status pages not updating

[Dave Fisher]

FYI - I hope to find time this weekend, but this is why Status Pages are not 
updating.

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 5:49 PM, Wilfred Spiegelenburg 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thank you Dave,
> 
> I am not in a hurry either just wanted to make sure it was known.
> I looked at the code which seems complicated enough to break things badly.
> My python knowledge is limited, and I am not going to attempt to fix this for 
> you.
> 
> Cheers,
> Wilfred
> 
>> On 5 Jan 2022, at 11:06, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> This broke because clutch2.py needs to be updated to use lists.apache.org.
>> 
>> # Currently prefer these, but consider switch to lists.apache.org
>> 
>> MAIL_LIST_URL = "http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/“
>> 
>> The code is here: 
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.py - it’s 
>> large and the mailing list stuff is complicated.
>> 
>> The equivalent new url looks like 
>> https://lists.apache.org/api/preferences.lua which provides a json structure 
>> which can be reused in a good way. It’s just that there will be additional 
>> work.
>> 
>> I doubt I’ll have time to address this before the weekend.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Wilfred Spiegelenburg 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I was trying to figure out why my update to the status page for YuniKorn 
>>> was not showing up. 
>>> I can see that the clutch data had not been updated for a couple of days 
>>> also [1]. 
>>> The build emails [2] point to a failure since build 808 [3]. The news added 
>>> to the Inlong status page before my YuniKorn change has not been published 
>>> either.
>>> 
>>> Could someone please have a look that understands more of this build. I 
>>> could not find a data change that could have triggered this failure.
>>> 
>>> Wilfred
>>> 
>>> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/
>>> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/oylx5jp8m1xpvs1m32kq7o1otsrbb9cj
>>> [3] 
>>> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Incubator/job/Incubator-SVN-Clutch-Analysis-part-1/808/console
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
> 
> Wilfred Spiegelenburg
> Senior Staff Software Engineer
> <https://www.cloudera.com/>


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Re: [VOTE] Accept Hugegraph into the Apache Incubator

[Dave Fisher]

+1 (binding)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 15, 2022, at 3:28 PM, Willem Jiang  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Following up the [DISCUSS] thread on Hugegraph[1], I would like to call a
> VOTE to accept Hugegraph into the Apache Incubator.
> 
> Please cast your vote:
> 
>  [ ] +1, bring Hugegraph into the Incubator
>  [ ] +0, I don't care either way
>  [ ] -1, do not bring Hugegraph into the Incubator, because...
> 
> The vote will open at least for 72 hours, and only votes from the
> Incubator PMC are binding, but votes from everyone are welcome.
> 
> Please check out the Hugegraph Proposal from the incubator wiki[2].
> 
> [1]https://lists.apache.org/thread/31k4jsgmmfhl3vggnbko1rjsmqjymh29
> [2]https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INCUBATOR/HugeGraphProposal
> 
> Willem Jiang
> 
> Twitter: willemjiang
> Weibo: 姜宁willem
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni 2.1.0

[Dave Fisher]

Carrying over my +1 (binding)

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 18, 2022, at 9:26 PM, Antoine Toulme  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> This is a call for a vote to release Apache Tuweni (incubating) version 
> 2.1.0. Apache Tuweni is a set of libraries and other tools to aid development 
> of blockchain and other decentralized software in Java and other JVM 
> languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, serialization and 
> deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography functions and 
> primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities.
> 
> The Apache Tuweni community has voted on and approved a proposal to release 
> Apache Tuweni (Incubating) version 2.1.0. We would like to request the 
> Incubator PMC members review and vote on this incubator release.
> 
> Release information:
> Vote result thread:
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/m49tlhcrzs80q0vk6kvgympthxbbptvk 
> <https://lists.apache.org/thread/m49tlhcrzs80q0vk6kvgympthxbbptvk>
> We're voting on the source distributions available here: 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/tuweni/2.1.0-incubating/ 
> <https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/tuweni/2.1.0-incubating/> 
> <https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/tuweni/2.1.0-incubating/ 
> <https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/tuweni/2.1.0-incubating/>> 
> The release tag is present here: 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases/tag/v2.1.0-incubating-rc 
> <https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases/tag/v2.1.0-incubating-rc>
>  
> <https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases/tag/v2.1.0-incubating-rc 
> <https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases/tag/v2.1.0-incubating-rc>>
>   This release includes the following changes:  New features: * Add 
> OpenTelemetry metrics reporting service * Add synchronizer to eth client * 
> New application: Ethereum node crawler * Add support for more EVM opcodes: 
> extcodehash, extcodecopy, support Istanbul opcodes * New application: 
> JSON-RPC proxy * New application: bootnode * Support Java 17 * Better gradle 
> wrapper for Windows  Fixes: * Upgrade Vert.x to 4.1.2 * DNS discovery 
> resilience, allow retries and using multiple servers. (Jiri Peinlich) * Move 
> to new license checks build * Remove logback runtime dependency * Provide 
> system property to disable use of libsodium in hashing. * Upgrade Kotlin to 
> 1.5.31
> 
> Thank you,
> Antoine.
> ---
> On behalf of Tuweni community


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Re: Looking for a champion: resurrect log4j 1.x

[Dave Fisher]

In this current form this discussion belongs either on dev@logging or board@.

Several people here are perfectly capable of forming a proposal, but are 
choosing to have an unproductive discussion.

At this point a new podling would be a hostile fork and those are not accepted.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 8, 2022, at 5:44 PM, Andrew Purtell  wrote:
> 
> The discussion continues here because the Logging PMC is intransigent and
> non-responsive to the concerns already well established by parties on this
> thread. I don't see how this can be resolved without you "giving in".
> Perhaps that is the problem, but I don't want to be an armchair
> psychiatrist, I just want a logging library without known security bugs
> that remains compatible with existing code and configuration formats and
> does not force me to transitively upgrade/rebuild/modify the world.
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 5:00 PM Ralph Goers 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
 On Jan 8, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Andrew Purtell  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Logging PMC is the hostile party here as far as I can tell, operating
>>> in defiance of the community of users that have made the points I have
>> just
>>> written here abundantly clear for years.
>> 
>> The Logging PMC is the owner of Log4j 1.x. We declared it EOL in 2015. Not
>> one single complaint was received nor were any proposals made to the PMC
>> until over 6 years later. This is not the sign of a hostile PMC but one
>> that has
>> moved on from unmaintainable software. Heck, even Ceki abandoned it years
>> before its last release to concentrate on its replacement.
>> 
>> The PMC held a discussion on the dev mailing list. Out of non-PMC members
>> there were very few responses. One person was in favor of reviving the
>> project
>> even to the point of fixing bugs and continuing development beyond just
>> fixing
>> CVEs. Leo Simmons did offer to help. Here is what he said during the
>> discussion:
>> 
>>I think I made clear what I am interested in through several emails
>> and in code.
>>I've also pointed out what I wouldn't do (like step up as a maintainer
>> on a.
>>permanent basis, or incubate something).
>> 
>>I think all the relevant arguments on how to proceed with 1.x have been
>>made (a few times…).
>>I don't have anything new to add.
>>I'll accept the vote outcome.
>> 
>> So we had two people expressing interest, one with no hope of ever being
>> offered
>> commit rights due to his behavior on our lists and in reviewing the other
>> projects
>> he participates on.
>> 
>> So we were left with the choice of us allowing Leo to do that work and us
>> having
>> to spend time reviewing the PRs and applying them. Frankly, none of us
>> were
>> interested enough in this to spend that kind of time, especially since we
>> know at
>> least two usable drop-in replacements for Log4j 1.2 that fix the CVEs
>> already exist.
>> 
>> I seriously think the outcome would have been different had Ceki offered
>> to help
>> while the discussion was going on. Instead, he decided to offer to help
>> after the
>> PMC posted its announcement of the vote results and the reasons why we
>> voted
>> that way.
>> 
>> Since the Logging Services PMC is responsible for Log4j1 I fail to see why
>> a
>> discussion is even continuing on this list. The Logging Services PMC has
>> made
>> clear that it is not going to sponsor a podling for this and the PMC still
>> retains
>> ownership of the code.
>> 
>> Ralph
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Andrew
> 
> Words like orphans lost among the crosstalk, meaning torn from truth's
> decrepit hands
>   - A23, Crosstalk


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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Apache AGE (Incubating) as a Top Level Project

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Have a look at https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/age and see that 4 PPMC 
members are not subscribed to private.

Also there are two of your mentors who are not subscribed. Those two probably 
have not done anything for the AGE podling.

> On Jan 6, 2022, at 2:30 PM, Felix Cheung  wrote:
> 
> I am definitely in private@ and in a bunch of dev@ discussion. Not sure if
> that was mis reported.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 11:15 PM Justin Mclean 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> * Dehowe Feng 
>>> * Eya Badal   
>>> * Felix Cheung
>>> * Jasper Blues
>>> * John Gemignani  
>>> * Josh Innis  
>>> * Juan Pan
>>> * Kevin Ratnasekera   
>>> * Mason Sharp 
>>> * Nick Sorrell
>>> * Pieterjan De Potter 
>>> * Raphael Bircher 
>>> * Suneel Marthi   
>>> * Von Gosling 
>> 
>> Looking at this list there are several people who:
>> a) Are not subscribed to the private list
>> b) Have not taken part in discussions on the mailing list (that I can find)
>> 
>> When putting together a graduation proposal, it's a good idea to find out
>> if the proposed PMC are willing to be PMC members. While there is no real
>> harm in having inactive PMC members, during graduation is a good time to
>> trim the PMC to those who will actually do the work.
>> 
>> Kind Regards,
>> Justin
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> 


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Re: [DISCUSS] Incubating Proposal of HugeGraph

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Not every repository at GitHub.com/hugegraph is included in the proposal. What 
does the HugeGraph community intend to do with those repositories? Are any of 
those key to the project?

Thanks,
Dave

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Jermy Li  wrote:
> 
> Hi, I'm Jermy from HugeGraph team. Thanks to mentors for introducing the 
> project.
> 
> @JB
> We have sorted out a comparison(some main features of graph database) between
> HugeGraph and Neo4j + Titan/Janus, I'm glad to share with you:
> 
> 
> (I post a picture here due to the table format can't be displayed well in the 
> email,
>  please refer to this link[1] for a text version.)
> 
> [1] 
> https://medium.com/@jermylee/comparison-of-graph-database-neo4j-janusgrraph-and-hugegraph-b144c527a6e2
>  
> <https://medium.com/@jermylee/comparison-of-graph-database-neo4j-janusgrraph-and-hugegraph-b144c527a6e2>
> 
> --
> Regards,
> 
> Jermy Li | Senior Software Engineer @Baidu
> javalov...@gmail.com <mailto:javalov...@gmail.com>
> Lidong Dai mailto:lidong...@apache.org>> 于2022年1月4日周二 
> 22:56写道：
> I'm so glad to see that HugeGraph will enter into the Apache Incubator!
> 
> I'm happy to be the mentor of the project.  As far as I know, HugeGraph
> initial team has done a lot of work for this project.
> 
> BTW,  our new project also need a graph database, I think HugeGraph is a
> good choice
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Apache DolphinScheduler PMC Chair
> LidongDai
> lidong...@apache.org <mailto:lidong...@apache.org>
> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dailidong 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/dailidong>
> Twitter: @WorkflowEasy <https://twitter.com/WorkflowEasy 
> <https://twitter.com/WorkflowEasy>>
> ---
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 7:02 PM Yu Li  <mailto:car...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> > Thanks for driving this, Williem!
> >
> > I'm happy to be the mentor of the project. I've had several conversations
> > with the team (both online and offline), and were attracted by their
> > technical taste and willingness of open source contribution and
> > collaboration. Hope the project could be accepted by the incubator, and
> > move on rapidly and healthy towards building up a great community!
> >
> >  @JB I happen to discuss with the team about comparison of existing graph
> > database systems, and would like to share some information here:
> >
> > Comparison with AGE (I didn't find open document and below is my
> > understanding based on previous discussion):
> >
> >- Common features of HugeGraph and AGE:
> >   - Both support complete graph query language. AGE supports
> >   openCypher, and HugeGraph supports Apache Gremlin.
> >   - Both support basic graph CRUD operations.
> >   - Both support PostgreSQL as backend storage, and the organisation of
> >   the stored graph data is similar.
> >- Difference between HugeGraph and AGE:
> >   - Different ways of integrating PostgreSQL: AGE runs as a plug-in of
> >   PostgreSQL, while HugeGraph runs PostgreSQL as an independent storage
> >   system.
> >  - Besides supporting PostgreSQL as the storage backend, HugeGraph
> >  supports a variety of other backends, such as RocksDB (the
> > default),
> >  Cassandra, HBase, MySQL, etc. in a pluggable way.
> >   - Besides supporting basic graph CRUD operations, HugeGraph also
> >   supports real-time OLTP graph algorithm, distributed OLAP graph
> >   calculation, rich attribute/graph indices and schema constraints,
> > etc.
> >
> >
> > Comparison with Neo4j and JanusGraph/Titan:
> >
> >- Please refer to this document [1], and there are more benchmark data
> >here [2] (in Chinese now, and I believe English translation is on the
> > way)
> >
> >
> > Hope the information helps, and please feel free to correct me or give
> > supplements here, team (smile).
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Yu
> >
> > [1]
> > https://blog.actorsfit.com/a?ID=01650-caeae70a-01c9-4ab8-a440-07b24e732ee7 
> > <https://blog.actorsfit.com/a?ID=01650-caeae70a-01c9-4ab8-a440-07b24e732ee7>
> > [2]
> >
> > https://hugegraph.github.io/hugegraph-doc/performance/hugegraph-benchmark-0.5.6.html
> >  
> > <https://hugegraph.github.io/hugegraph-doc/performance/hugegraph-benchmark-0.5.6.html>
> >
> > On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 at 16:47, Jean-Baptiste Onofré  > <mailto:j...@nanthrax.net>> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Willem,
> > >
> >

Re: clutch analysis part 1 failing: status pages not updating

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

This broke because clutch2.py needs to be updated to use lists.apache.org.

# Currently prefer these, but consider switch to lists.apache.org   
 
MAIL_LIST_URL = "http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/“

The code is here: 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/public/trunk/clutch2.py - it’s large 
and the mailing list stuff is complicated.

The equivalent new url looks like https://lists.apache.org/api/preferences.lua 
which provides a json structure which can be reused in a good way. It’s just 
that there will be additional work.

I doubt I’ll have time to address this before the weekend.

Regards,
Dave

> On Jan 4, 2022, at 1:36 PM, Wilfred Spiegelenburg 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was trying to figure out why my update to the status page for YuniKorn was 
> not showing up. 
> I can see that the clutch data had not been updated for a couple of days also 
> [1]. 
> The build emails [2] point to a failure since build 808 [3]. The news added 
> to the Inlong status page before my YuniKorn change has not been published 
> either.
> 
> Could someone please have a look that understands more of this build. I could 
> not find a data change that could have triggered this failure.
> 
> Wilfred
> 
> [1] https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/oylx5jp8m1xpvs1m32kq7o1otsrbb9cj
> [3] 
> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Incubator/job/Incubator-SVN-Clutch-Analysis-part-1/808/console
> -
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> 


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Re: [DISCUSS] Graduate Apache AGE Incubating as a Top Level Project

[Dave Fisher]

A slight correction in line.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2021, at 6:32 AM, Juan Pan  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> After going through all the updates of this thread, here are some inputs from 
> me,
> 
> 
> 1. PPMC voting, a NOTICE to board is needed.

While incubating the NOTICE is to the IPMC’s private@ mailing list.

> 2. Apache Dockerhub, a conclusion or voting result from the community is the 
> prerequisite to ask for helps from Apache infra next.
> 3. It's necessary to keep Apache community independent from business.

This is critical and difficult.

> 4. The committer bar is primarily up to the community itself. The purpose of 
> committer bar is to activate the community and encourage contributors. High 
> bar discourages people, while sloppy one will cause the lowest motivation for 
> the community.
> 5. Contributor or committer is not required to be the professional geeks. Any 
> effort, time, or activities that help the community sustain or develop are 
> counted. However, please present these contributions in public or onlist as 
> much as possible.
> 6. It's firmly suggested to invite your mentors for this worthwhile but hard 
> incubator process.

I wonder, the mentors should be following podling email. Is enough happening on 
the mailing lists?

All the Best,
Dave
> 
> 
> Best,
> Trista
> 
> --
> Juan Pan(Trista), Twitter: @tristaZero
> 
> 
> On 12/29/2021 16:00，Justin Mclean wrote：
> HI,
> 
> The community would like to use Apache Dockerhub.
> 
> Then as per the Infra comment on that JIRA you should discuss it onlist and 
> make sure you have consensus that the community wants that.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Justin
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Re: Looking for a champion: resurrect log4j 1.x

[Dave Fisher]

Have the initial committers for this effort been identified?

> On Dec 22, 2021, at 10:28 AM, Vladimir Sitnikov  
> wrote:
> 
> Matt>Attaching patches to Jira is exactly how v1 was developed back in the
> day. V2 did it for some time as well before migrating to git
> 
> Matt, let us please refrain from off-topic discussions here? (at the end of
> the day, this is "Looking for a champion" thread)

IMO - this effort would not benefit from Incubation. Incubation will slow down 
this effort as graduation requirements won’t fit a small and compact community 
that has in mind a singular effort.

Alternatives ways to organize this:

(1) Get at least 3 Apache Members together (IPMC members are almost all Apache 
Members) and make a Board Resolution to form a new PMC. Fork the resources, or 
Logging turns them over.

(2) Work within the Logging PMC

(3) Ask the Commons PMC if they would take back Log4J 1.x.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> If you have objections or comments regarding LOG4J2-3272, would you please
> comment there?
> (I truly do not understand why is it important to know how v1 or v2
> accepted fixes back in the days)
> 
> Vladimir


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Re: Looking for a champion: resurrect log4j 1.x

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2021, at 5:13 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau  wrote:
> 
> Le mar. 21 déc. 2021 à 12:33, Enrico Olivelli  a
> écrit :
> 
>> Vladimir,
>> I totally support this proposal.
>> 
>> Which are actually the steps we need to cut a release of log4j 1.x ?
>> - establish an Apache project ?
>> 
> 
> 1. Send a patch to apply on
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/logging/log4j/trunk
> 
> 
>> - do the fix
>> 
> 
> 2. Get it applied
> 
> 
>> - cut a release
>> 
>> Can this be done inside another Apache Project who "adopts" the log4j
>> sources if the Logging Project doesn't want to do it ?
>> 
> 
> The PMC of log4j2 is logging project so it should be done there, if not the
> project can be forked inside Apache but should change of package until we
> get the perms to reuse the same one which means likely as much work as just
> getting it done at logging projec
> so hope it is not needed ;).
> 

If you think this is a problem then Apache members could ask the board to 
establish a new PMC to support log4j 1 including reusing the package.

Regards?
Dave
> 
>> 
>> Enrico
>> 
>> 
>> Il giorno mar 21 dic 2021 alle ore 08:36 Vladimir Sitnikov <
>> sitnikov.vladi...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>> 
>>>> Just wondering, is it even fulfilling the criteria of incubation?
>>> 
>>> I believe, the world does not need "active development in log4j 1.x"
>>> nowadays.
>>> What everybody needs from log4j 1.x is to fix security issues, fix
>>> outstanding issues (if any),
>>> keep the project buildable (e.g. avoid using outdated build systems),
>> etc.
>>> 
>>>> it doesn't seem that sustainability is proven.
>>> 
>>> The problem is log4j 1.x is like COBOL of logging. There are apps that
>> are
>>> just stuck with log4j 1.x.
>>> The proof of sustainability is that lots of existing apps will never
>>> upgrade to 2.x because 2.x is incompatible.
>>> If the compatibility layer of 2.x would be improved to handle 99.999% of
>>> apps,
>>> then we could indeed move 1.x to the attic.
>>> 
>>> The Incubator Cookbook says:
>>>> The ASF provides software for the public good,
>>> 
>>> As I described, log4j 2.x is not a direct replacement for log4j 1.x, and
>>> there are **lots** of applications
>>> that can't easily be upgraded to 2.x due to testing, configuration, and
>>> implementation issues.
>>> 
>>> The current Logging PMC is focused on log4j 2.x only, and they have no
>>> desire to release 1.x
>>> 
>>>> active development but focus only on CVE fixes
>>> 
>>> I would say, the primary goal of resurrecting 1.x is to focus on CVEs,
>> and
>>> keep the project buildable and testable.
>>> However, it might be the case, that certain fixes or features would
>> appear.
>>> 
>>> The sad story is that the industry is using 1.x A LOT, and what Logging
>> PMC
>>> did was
>>> they ignored the community, and they just stopped maintaining 1.x and
>>> focused on an incompatible 2.x
>>> 
>>> Not only do they stop maintaining 1.x, but they also deny others to pick
>> up
>>> the maintenance task.
>>> 
>>> What I am trying to do now is to pick up that maintenance activity.
>>> 
>>> Vladimir
>>> 
>> 


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Re: Looking for a champion: resurrect log4j 1.x

[Dave Fisher]

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2021, at 3:33 AM, Enrico Olivelli  wrote:
> 
> Vladimir,
> I totally support this proposal.
> 
> Which are actually the steps we need to cut a release of log4j 1.x ?
> - establish an Apache project ?
> - do the fix
> - cut a release
> 
> Can this be done inside another Apache Project who "adopts" the log4j
> sources if the Logging Project doesn't want to do it ?

Perhaps Apache Commons where log4j started?
> 
> Enrico
> 
> 
> Il giorno mar 21 dic 2021 alle ore 08:36 Vladimir Sitnikov <
> sitnikov.vladi...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
> 
>>> Just wondering, is it even fulfilling the criteria of incubation?
>> 
>> I believe, the world does not need "active development in log4j 1.x"
>> nowadays.
>> What everybody needs from log4j 1.x is to fix security issues, fix
>> outstanding issues (if any),
>> keep the project buildable (e.g. avoid using outdated build systems), etc.
>> 
>>> it doesn't seem that sustainability is proven.
>> 
>> The problem is log4j 1.x is like COBOL of logging. There are apps that are
>> just stuck with log4j 1.x.
>> The proof of sustainability is that lots of existing apps will never
>> upgrade to 2.x because 2.x is incompatible.
>> If the compatibility layer of 2.x would be improved to handle 99.999% of
>> apps,
>> then we could indeed move 1.x to the attic.
>> 
>> The Incubator Cookbook says:
>>> The ASF provides software for the public good,
>> 
>> As I described, log4j 2.x is not a direct replacement for log4j 1.x, and
>> there are **lots** of applications
>> that can't easily be upgraded to 2.x due to testing, configuration, and
>> implementation issues.
>> 
>> The current Logging PMC is focused on log4j 2.x only, and they have no
>> desire to release 1.x
>> 
>>> active development but focus only on CVE fixes
>> 
>> I would say, the primary goal of resurrecting 1.x is to focus on CVEs, and
>> keep the project buildable and testable.
>> However, it might be the case, that certain fixes or features would appear.
>> 
>> The sad story is that the industry is using 1.x A LOT, and what Logging PMC
>> did was
>> they ignored the community, and they just stopped maintaining 1.x and
>> focused on an incompatible 2.x
>> 
>> Not only do they stop maintaining 1.x, but they also deny others to pick up
>> the maintenance task.
>> 
>> What I am trying to do now is to pick up that maintenance activity.
>> 
>> Vladimir
>> 

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Re: Looking for a champion: resurrect log4j 1.x

[Dave Fisher]

Hi,

Have you discussed the approach you outlined with the logging PMC? It seems to 
me the idea of a drop in jar that allows log4j 1 over log4j  2 is an ideal 
product for that PMC to support.

All the best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 21, 2021, at 8:22 PM, 张铎  wrote:
> 
> I'm the one who migrated HBase from log4j to log4j2, and still tries to
> migrate hadoop but still can not find a suitable upgrading path...
> 
> For me, I do not prefer we release a new log4j 1.x, it has been EOL for
> many years, we should encourage people to upgrade to a newer logging
> framework. FWIW, even if we make a new release for log4j, the projects
> which rely on log4j still need to upgrade and make a new release right?
> 
> So then, I stand with Andrew's point, why people post an email here to get
> a new release for log4j 1.x, is mainly because they can not easily migrate
> to log4j2. If the log4j to log4j2 bridge can work perfectly, then for most
> old projects, they can just add a log4j12 bridge in the dependencies to
> solve most problems. And then they could start to migrate to pure log4j2
> incrementally and finally remove the log4j12 bridge.
> 
> But in my experience, first, the log4j12 bridge is not perfect. For
> example, since hadoop is still on log4j 1.x, I need to add log4j12 bridge
> dependency if I want to run UTs based on hadoop mini cluster, and then I
> need to manually copy some code from log4j1 in order to make it work, this
> is an example
> 
> https://github.com/apache/hbase/blob/master/hbase-logging/src/test/java/org/apache/log4j/FileAppender.java
> 
> I know in the bridge you will create log4j2 appender instead when reading
> the configuration file of log4j1, but since the appenders in log4j1 lack of
> some abilities, it is common that lots of projects will implement their own
> appender, I think we should take care of these usages and make them migrate
> smoothly.
> 
> And then, while fully migrating to log4j2, there is another annoying
> problem, the
> 
> log4j.rootLogger=INFO,console
> 
> grammar is gone! It is used among almost all the projects I've seen, and we
> just drop the support for it!
> 
> In HBase, I have to do some magics in the start scripts to avoid breaking
> our users too much
> 
> https://github.com/apache/hbase/blob/314e924e960d0d5c0c5e8ec436c75aaa6190b4c1/bin/hbase#L829
> 
> I really hope we could do better on backward compatibility, so when people
> ask for something about log4j1, we could just tell them to add the bridge
> to log4j2. And then easily fully migrate to log4j2 without too much effort
> if they want to use more features of log4j2, instead of finally making
> people ask here on whether they could revive log4j1...
> 
> That's my real feeling while working on migrating from log4j1 to log4j2.
> Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm also willing to help here on making the
> bridge works better and also making the migration easier.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew Purtell  于2021年12月22日周三 05:55写道：
> 
>>> as for the v1 :: COBOL analogy, that’s not a bad comparison. Basically,
>> users who haven’t bothered to upgrade in 10 years will have to end up
>> paying astronomical costs for consultants who can still work on ancient
>> software effectively to help modify their systems.
>> 
>> I have to take some exception to this. If the log4j 2.x configuration files
>> were compatible _enough_ with 1.x then taking this position would be
>> understandable. However, because they are not compatible in the way that
>> users require -- and the backwards compatibility is still marked as
>> 'experimental', even -- it is not great to blame users "who haven't
>> bothered to upgrade in 10 years". Turning this around, why is backwards
>> compatibility still experimental after 10 years? I am involved with several
>> Apache projects where we would love to upgrade from log4j 1 to log4j 2, and
>> have been talking about it for _years_. However, we have not been able to
>> easily do so because we actually care about operational cross-version
>> compatibility for our users. On some of these projects we are still stuck
>> on log4j 1.
>> 
>> I also support continuing releasing for log4j 1.x, and would volunteer some
>> of my time to assist in the effort.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 12:34 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:
>> 
>>> Nobody in the Logging PMC is blocking a release here. What we don’t want
>>> is to falsely advertise that v1 is still under development. We already
>> have
>>> a huge increase in mailing list, PR, and other traffic ever since
>>> Log4Shell, and if we resurrect v1, then it’ll quickly become

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduate Apache AGE Incubating as a Top Level Project

[Dave Fisher]

> On Dec 17, 2021, at 3:07 PM, Andrew Ko  wrote:
> 
> Hello John,
> 
> The number 68 includes
> 
>   -
> 
>   28 code contributors who submitted pull requests that were merged.
>   -
> 
>   40+ who identified bugs, influenced the project with strong and informed
>   opinion, answered AGE users’ questions, helped with code snippets to
>   clarify how to use AGE.

Non-code contributors are also candidates to be committers. They can do the 
many non-code activities.

That is how I was able to join my first PMC over 13 years ago. Answering 
questions.

> 
> Because of the nature of the project, committers require a broad range of
> expertise in several areas including: Database (Postgres and SQL), Graph
> Technology and Cyper, C language. While many contributors demonstrated
> expertise in some areas, few had expertise in all disciplines. In addition
> we restricted committer status to those who demonstrated consistent
> contribution to the project over many months and across multiple and
> diverse challenges. We felt this was the most prudent way to build a strong
> and tight community.

IMO - You are setting the committer bar too high. If the contributor has some 
expertise that’s good. Remember you want this project to survive for a long 
time. If you set it too high then people will lose interest.

Many months is good.

> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Andrew Ko
> 
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 11:12 AM John D. Ament 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Putting aside this subproject for a moment I am concerned with your
>> contributor vs committer counts. If you’ve had 68 contributors why are the
>> numbers for new committers and PPMC so low?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 21:08 Eya Badal  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Willem,
>>> 
>>> Thank you very much for your feedback. There have been four official
>>> Apache releases for the Apache AGE (incubating) project. AGE Viewer is a
>>> sub-project of Apache AGE. As I know, the AGE viewer sub-project will
>> start
>>> the process for the first Apache release today or tomorrow.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Eya
>>> 
>>> On 2021/12/17 01:12:55 Willem Jiang wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I just found out that we don't have the Apache release of AGE viewer,
 even though there are a bunch of tags in github[1].
 I also found the recent change[1] in master. It looks like we just
 addressed the License issue during the release of 0.6.0.
 The release process documentation[1] should be hosted on the website
 of age.apache.org instead of using a good drive[3] to host.
 
 It's quite important that we learn to follow the Apache release
 policies during the incubation process.
 
 Please double check with the mentors for the release of AGE viewer.
 
 [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-age-viewer/tags
 [2]https://github.com/apache/incubator-age/pull/157/files
 [3]
>>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zvAESVg7fRdSsxUuuOc3rHMkHcaOF28j/view?usp=sharing
 
 Willem Jiang
 
 Twitter: willemjiang
 Weibo: 姜宁willem
 
 On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 5:04 AM Eya Badal  wrote:
> 
> Dear Everyone,
> 
> 
> Having passed the Community Graduation Vote [1] by the AGE community
>>> with a
> vote result to graduate the incubation [2], our assessment is that
>>> Apache
> AGE (Incubating) is ready to graduate as a TLP.
> 
> We would like to raise the topic for discussion with the IPMC.
> 
> In addition to building and releasing software the Apache way, the
>> AGE
> project community has grown in the following areas:
> 
> 
>   -
> 
>   Close to 900 commits
>   -
> 
>   68 unique contributors
>   -
> 
>   4 new committers and 1 new PPMC from 3 different
>>> companies/institutions
>   -
> 
>   Gathered > 500 GitHub stars
>   -
> 
>   4 Apache releases (0.3.0, 0.4.0, 0.5.0, 0.6.0) [3]
>   -
> 
>   6 mentors, 6 PPMC members (mentors excluded) and 4 committers
>>> (mentors
>   and PPMC members excluded)
> 
> 
>   -
> 
>   Contributions span more than 20 countries across the globe
>> including
>   Australia, Belarus, Belgium, China, France, Germany, Ireland,
>>> Israel,
>   Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Nigeria, The Philippines,
>>> Russia, South
>   Korea, Thailand, UK, Ukraine, USA, and Vietnam
>   -
> 
>   Developed and maintained Apache AGE website [4]
>   -
> 
>   Created and automated documentation to support multiple versions
>> of
>>> AGE.
>   [5]
>   -
> 
>   Developer conversations at d...@age.apache.org
>   -
> 
>   Assessed ourselves against the Apache Project maturity matrix [6]
>>> and
>   didn't find any issues
> 
> 
> 
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/q2cgbnhvpzk2k0m8yfh89lzc75qym9k9
> 
> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/lr3x9bm8jyv6o5kvyh7cf3tyxrpp2kwm
> 
> [3] 

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduate Apache AGE Incubating as a Top Level Project

[Dave Fisher]

> On Dec 17, 2021, at 3:11 PM, Josh Innis  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> Regarding (3), Dehowe Feng was added to the PPMC on 12/6/2021 [1].

Oh I see, but he is a BitNine employee. Add increases the concern that AGE is 
not a diverse community.

> 
> Regarding (4), all the files involved in the issue we had in the last release 
> have the correct headers. The open pull request is not about the original 
> license issue. Since the previous release, a Python and Go driver were added 
> to the project. The original pull request did not include the license and the 
> author of the drivers has added the licenses. None of the files involved in 
> that PR have been involved in a release. The PR with the licenses has not 
> been merged to the repository yet because it also includes logic changes that 
> must be reviewed.
> 
> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/7428n0p4hwf6lv4v3n9fldqt4wjp6omd

It seems like they should be invited as a committer.

> 
> 
> On 2021/12/17 18:28:51 Dave Fisher wrote:
>> Four more concerns:
>> 
>> (1) Three of the PPMC members are not subscribed to the private mailing list.
>> 
>> (2) Four of the Committers including some of the PPMC members have not 
>> mapped their apache id to their GitHub id. How can they contribute?
>> 
>> (3) No one has been added to the PPMC.
>> 
>> (4) Are all of the License Headers taken care of? I’m seeing a PR that 
>> indicates they are not. [1]
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-age/pull/150
>> 
>>> On Dec 16, 2021, at 6:11 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Putting aside this subproject for a moment I am concerned with your
>>> contributor vs committer counts. If you’ve had 68 contributors why are the
>>> numbers for new committers and PPMC so low?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 21:08 Eya Badal  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hello Willem,
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you very much for your feedback. There have been four official
>>>> Apache releases for the Apache AGE (incubating) project. AGE Viewer is a
>>>> sub-project of Apache AGE. As I know, the AGE viewer sub-project will start
>>>> the process for the first Apache release today or tomorrow.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Eya
>>>> 
>>>> On 2021/12/17 01:12:55 Willem Jiang wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I just found out that we don't have the Apache release of AGE viewer,
>>>>> even though there are a bunch of tags in github[1].
>>>>> I also found the recent change[1] in master. It looks like we just
>>>>> addressed the License issue during the release of 0.6.0.
>>>>> The release process documentation[1] should be hosted on the website
>>>>> of age.apache.org instead of using a good drive[3] to host.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's quite important that we learn to follow the Apache release
>>>>> policies during the incubation process.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please double check with the mentors for the release of AGE viewer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-age-viewer/tags
>>>>> [2]https://github.com/apache/incubator-age/pull/157/files
>>>>> [3]
>>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zvAESVg7fRdSsxUuuOc3rHMkHcaOF28j/view?usp=sharing
>>>>> 
>>>>> Willem Jiang
>>>>> 
>>>>> Twitter: willemjiang
>>>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 5:04 AM Eya Badal  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Everyone,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Having passed the Community Graduation Vote [1] by the AGE community
>>>> with a
>>>>>> vote result to graduate the incubation [2], our assessment is that
>>>> Apache
>>>>>> AGE (Incubating) is ready to graduate as a TLP.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We would like to raise the topic for discussion with the IPMC.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In addition to building and releasing software the Apache way, the AGE
>>>>>> project community has grown in the following areas:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Close to 900 commits
>>>>>>  -
>>>&g

Re: [DISCUSS] Graduate Apache AGE Incubating as a Top Level Project

[Dave Fisher]

Four more concerns:

(1) Three of the PPMC members are not subscribed to the private mailing list.

(2) Four of the Committers including some of the PPMC members have not mapped 
their apache id to their GitHub id. How can they contribute?

(3) No one has been added to the PPMC.

(4) Are all of the License Headers taken care of? I’m seeing a PR that 
indicates they are not. [1]

Regards,
Dave

[1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-age/pull/150

> On Dec 16, 2021, at 6:11 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Putting aside this subproject for a moment I am concerned with your
> contributor vs committer counts. If you’ve had 68 contributors why are the
> numbers for new committers and PPMC so low?
> 
> John
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 21:08 Eya Badal  wrote:
> 
>> Hello Willem,
>> 
>> Thank you very much for your feedback. There have been four official
>> Apache releases for the Apache AGE (incubating) project. AGE Viewer is a
>> sub-project of Apache AGE. As I know, the AGE viewer sub-project will start
>> the process for the first Apache release today or tomorrow.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Eya
>> 
>> On 2021/12/17 01:12:55 Willem Jiang wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I just found out that we don't have the Apache release of AGE viewer,
>>> even though there are a bunch of tags in github[1].
>>> I also found the recent change[1] in master. It looks like we just
>>> addressed the License issue during the release of 0.6.0.
>>> The release process documentation[1] should be hosted on the website
>>> of age.apache.org instead of using a good drive[3] to host.
>>> 
>>> It's quite important that we learn to follow the Apache release
>>> policies during the incubation process.
>>> 
>>> Please double check with the mentors for the release of AGE viewer.
>>> 
>>> [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-age-viewer/tags
>>> [2]https://github.com/apache/incubator-age/pull/157/files
>>> [3]
>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zvAESVg7fRdSsxUuuOc3rHMkHcaOF28j/view?usp=sharing
>>> 
>>> Willem Jiang
>>> 
>>> Twitter: willemjiang
>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 5:04 AM Eya Badal  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Dear Everyone,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Having passed the Community Graduation Vote [1] by the AGE community
>> with a
>>>> vote result to graduate the incubation [2], our assessment is that
>> Apache
>>>> AGE (Incubating) is ready to graduate as a TLP.
>>>> 
>>>> We would like to raise the topic for discussion with the IPMC.
>>>> 
>>>> In addition to building and releasing software the Apache way, the AGE
>>>> project community has grown in the following areas:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   Close to 900 commits
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   68 unique contributors
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   4 new committers and 1 new PPMC from 3 different
>> companies/institutions
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   Gathered > 500 GitHub stars
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   4 Apache releases (0.3.0, 0.4.0, 0.5.0, 0.6.0) [3]
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   6 mentors, 6 PPMC members (mentors excluded) and 4 committers
>> (mentors
>>>>   and PPMC members excluded)
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   Contributions span more than 20 countries across the globe including
>>>>   Australia, Belarus, Belgium, China, France, Germany, Ireland,
>> Israel,
>>>>   Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Nigeria, The Philippines,
>> Russia, South
>>>>   Korea, Thailand, UK, Ukraine, USA, and Vietnam
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   Developed and maintained Apache AGE website [4]
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   Created and automated documentation to support multiple versions of
>> AGE.
>>>>   [5]
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   Developer conversations at d...@age.apache.org
>>>>   -
>>>> 
>>>>   Assessed ourselves against the Apache Project maturity matrix [6]
>> and
>>>>   didn't find any issues
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/q2cgbnhvpzk2k0m8yfh89lzc75qym9k9
>>>> 
>>>> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/lr3x