Re: [H] Video pixel pushing issues with multiple monitors-and Zoom etc

[Bino Gopal]

Well so I solved the TV black bar issue:

I downloaded  and run the Intel Graphics Command Center (I guess the equivalent 
of the Nvidia Control Center for GTX cards) and I was able to select the TV and 
there was a Scale option for it that had "Maintain Aspect Ratio" selected and 
when I switched it to "Maintain Display Scaling" it seemed to reset the image, 
and then the 1920x1080 image filled the screen and the black bars disappeared!

I switched it back to Maintain Aspect Ratio to test it, and it still stayed 
full screen, so I guess whatever thing had happened to mess it up is gone now?  
So weird...

Still doesn’t help with the Zoom/Discord lag, but I'm going to try your 
suggestion next Jamie-thanks!

So no one has used one of those external Thunderbolt (since I have USB4.0 Gen 
3x2, I figure that's the same as Thunderbolt 3 right?) external enclosures with 
a discrete graphics card and can report back on how well it works...?

BINO


-Original Message-
From: Hardware  On Behalf Of Jamie 
Furtner
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 2:57 PM
To: hardw...@lists.hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Video pixel pushing issues with multiple monitors-and Zoom etc

Have you tried forcing Zoom and Discord to not use graphics acceleration for 
video? I've seen that make a difference with Teams and older Intel Graphics in 
my Surface Book 2 (higher CPU utilization, but more stable overall was the 
result). If the problem is just that you have the screens connected then this 
isn't it, but I've found the acceleration to not be ideal on the SB2 depending 
on the client app.

You should be able to use the Intel Graphics Engine tools to add custom 
resolutions to help with the Samsung TV. I do that on my Surface Book with its 
3240x2160 screen to cut the resolution down so I can use those resolutions with 
games. The result is that the Geforce 1060 can much more easily keep up when 
compared to native resolution as it's pumping
1/4 the pixels.


On 2022-05-19 12:11 p.m., Bino Gopal wrote:
> Hey all, looking for some help and guidance here (long post warning, 
> so TL; DR included at the top)
>
> TL;DR: Am I just being unreasonable in hoping I can run multiple 
> monitors with just my integrated Intel Iris XE graphics card on my new 
> laptop and just use it for Zoom/Discord video mtgs w/o issues?  Not 
> talking about gaming even-just basic daily productivity stuff!  (Also, 
> pls read the PS at the end for the bonus resolution weirdness question 
> on my TV!)
>
>
> More details:
> I got a new 17" LG Gram laptop with Intel Iris XE graphics a few months ago.  
> It's super light and portable (like 3 lbs) and I love that, but I'm starting 
> to regret not have discrete graphics b/c I guess I didn't realize that there 
> is a limit to how many pixels it can push just in terms of how many monitors 
> I can connect at a decent resolution...and also just doing basic video on 
> Zoom and Discord/other video collab SW seems to cause perf issues...
>
> Currently I have 2 27" monitors both connected through a Dell D600 dock 
> connected via a USB-C port-the monitors are diff max res:
> 2560x1440 for the Lenovo P27h connected via HDMI to the dock (on left)
> 3840x2160 for the Dell P2721Q connected via DisplayPort to the dock on 
> right)
>
> My laptop can do 2560x1600 at max res and I also have a 85" Samsung TV 
> mounted above and behind which can go up to 4096x2160 (not just 
> 3840x2160 which is a separate subdiscussion I'll bring up below...)
>
> When I first got it, I was (I think naively) running everything at max res 
> and doing some scaling in Windows 10 and things seemed to be fine for a hot 
> minute-but then the system would eventually slow down and even get really 
> choppy-esp when I would join a Zoom meeting-that's when I noticed it most-tho 
> also when doing Discord video meets too, etc-i.e. anything with video causes 
> the machine to slow to a crawl and become basically unusable...even watching 
> YT videos sometimes caused issues.
>
> So I started doing stuff to step it back to see if it would help-the main 
> first thing I did was reduce the resolutions a bit at a time and try and 
> eliminate the scaling as I saw delays as I moved windows across monitor-but 
> it didn't get better til I set all the other monitors to 1920x1080 (which 
> seems like a waste) and set my laptop to 1920x1200 so there's no res changes 
> across the system and I'm pushing fewer pixels overall...
>
> But even so, while it improved the slowness on Zooms and Discord video 
> sessions, I still got SOME slowness/choppiness.  It was better, but there was 
> still enough present that it was annoying-so what I'd do is I'd turn of

[H] Video pixel pushing issues with multiple monitors-and Zoom etc

[Bino Gopal]

Hey all, looking for some help and guidance here (long post warning, so TL; DR 
included at the top)

TL;DR: Am I just being unreasonable in hoping I can run multiple monitors with 
just my integrated Intel Iris XE graphics card on my new laptop and just use it 
for Zoom/Discord video mtgs w/o issues?  Not talking about gaming even-just 
basic daily productivity stuff!  (Also, pls read the PS at the end for the 
bonus resolution weirdness question on my TV!)


More details:
I got a new 17" LG Gram laptop with Intel Iris XE graphics a few months ago.  
It's super light and portable (like 3 lbs) and I love that, but I'm starting to 
regret not have discrete graphics b/c I guess I didn't realize that there is a 
limit to how many pixels it can push just in terms of how many monitors I can 
connect at a decent resolution...and also just doing basic video on Zoom and 
Discord/other video collab SW seems to cause perf issues...

Currently I have 2 27" monitors both connected through a Dell D600 dock 
connected via a USB-C port-the monitors are diff max res:
2560x1440 for the Lenovo P27h connected via HDMI to the dock (on left)
3840x2160 for the Dell P2721Q connected via DisplayPort to the dock on right)

My laptop can do 2560x1600 at max res and I also have a 85" Samsung TV mounted 
above and behind which can go up to 4096x2160 (not just 3840x2160 which is a 
separate subdiscussion I'll bring up below...)

When I first got it, I was (I think naively) running everything at max res and 
doing some scaling in Windows 10 and things seemed to be fine for a hot 
minute-but then the system would eventually slow down and even get really 
choppy-esp when I would join a Zoom meeting-that's when I noticed it most-tho 
also when doing Discord video meets too, etc-i.e. anything with video causes 
the machine to slow to a crawl and become basically unusable...even watching YT 
videos sometimes caused issues.

So I started doing stuff to step it back to see if it would help-the main first 
thing I did was reduce the resolutions a bit at a time and try and eliminate 
the scaling as I saw delays as I moved windows across monitor-but it didn't get 
better til I set all the other monitors to 1920x1080 (which seems like a waste) 
and set my laptop to 1920x1200 so there's no res changes across the system and 
I'm pushing fewer pixels overall...

But even so, while it improved the slowness on Zooms and Discord video 
sessions, I still got SOME slowness/choppiness.  It was better, but there was 
still enough present that it was annoying-so what I'd do is I'd turn off the 2 
monitors connected to the dock and then I noticed that things immediately 
improved as they disconnected from the system-so it really seemed like it had 
to do with how many pixels the card was trying to push and the integrated Intel 
Iris XE graphics not being able to keep up-but you'd think a Zoom or Discord 
video meeting wouldn't be *that* taxing, no?  I'm not even talking about 
running a game at 60 fps here...!

Anyway just wanted to sanity check if that's the issue or if I might be missing 
something else that I should check.  Any suggestions on a config that would let 
me have more monitors at higher res or am I SOL?

Also, would it be worth it to get one of those external USB-C enclosures and 
put a discrete card in it and connect it to my machine (better than connecting 
it to the dock, right?) such that it would utilize it and I could use all the 
monitors (which is most of the time nowdays since I'm still at home and not 
traveling for work mtgs).  It would be worth the $$ for me if it didn't get 
bottlenecked and have issues, so I'd look into it if you guys thought it would 
help-has anyone done this/know anything about it?

That's basically it; thanks for any info/help guys!


BINO

P.S.  Here's the bonus weird thing.  Ever since I connected all these monitors 
to this system and had everything like this, the TV has had black bars on the 
side at 1920x1080-and also at 3840x2160.  (When I was on my older MSI laptop 
and before I got the dock, when I used the same HDMI cable and connected to the 
tv at either HD or 4K it never had any bars on the sides, and it only showed 
the standard res).

But note that this is a normal Samsung 4K TV that says in its documentation 
that its normal max resolution is 3840x2160.  But my PC show the max res as 
actually 4096x2160, and when I looked it up, I found some links that said that 
this was the actual "FULL 4K" res, and that 3840x2160 wasn't actually full 
4K-which I always thought it was!

In any case when I set the TV to 4096x2160 the black bars on the side of the TV 
disappear.  I can't actually select 2048x1080 as a res tho from Windows, so I'm 
stuck with it at 1920x1080 with black bars on the sides, which is kinda 
annoying since I don't want to run it at 4K and push too many pixels and do 
scalin

Re: [H] Video card fail or not?

[Joshua MacCraw]

Yeah the hd38670x2 that's been in their since I built this a few years
ago just won' t post meanwhile the new MSI r9 280 seems to work & be
stable as long as it's secured just right. Need to test old card in
another system to see if salvageable.

Looked at the slot with a microscope cam (FTW Newegg freebie!), all
pins seem uniform & spaced properly so I am stumped on the actual
cause. What it tells me is I want to never build vertical again if
this is what the weight of cards can do over time hanging off a slot.
This along with the brand new Z97-A board with mysteriously bent CPU
socket pins really piss me off because the repairs are seemingly
impossible for a DIY prosumer to fix.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 5:44 AM, Thane Sherrington
 wrote:
> At 12:42 PM 06/02/2015, Joshua MacCraw wrote:
>>
>> My old asus rampage & hd3870x2 seem to have issues. Specifically the old
>> dash-dot-dot-dot BIOS code for failed video. So i buy a new r9 280 for the
>> otherwise strong system and still fail code beeps.
>
>
> BTW, I think the problem is a loose connection on the video card.  Try
> reseating it very firmly.
>
> T
>
>

Re: [H] Video card fail or not?

[Thane Sherrington]

At 12:42 PM 06/02/2015, Joshua MacCraw wrote:

My old asus rampage & hd3870x2 seem to have issues. Specifically the old
dash-dot-dot-dot BIOS code for failed video. So i buy a new r9 280 for the
otherwise strong system and still fail code beeps.


BTW, I think the problem is a loose connection on the video 
card.  Try reseating it very firmly.


T 

Re: [H] Video card fail or not?

[Thane Sherrington]

At 12:42 PM 06/02/2015, Joshua MacCraw wrote:

My old asus rampage & hd3870x2 seem to have issues. Specifically the old
dash-dot-dot-dot BIOS code for failed video. So i buy a new r9 280 for the
otherwise strong system and still fail code beeps.


I'm dealing with an Asus board that's doing that here.  It appears to 
be a slot issue.


T

[H] Video card fail or not?

[Joshua MacCraw]

My old asus rampage & hd3870x2 seem to have issues. Specifically the old
dash-dot-dot-dot BIOS code for failed video. So i buy a new r9 280 for the
otherwise strong system and still fail code beeps.

Dropped *new* card into my newest pc as crossfire slave & card works fine
so it's gotta be a mobo issue? The MCH does video bus so I can't just blame
some cpu based support circuit & swap cpu. This leaves mobo sub-component
failure.

Question is does anybody have an old DDR2 Asus rampage formula laying
around for swap or cheap sale?

Re: [H] video plug ins on a receiver

[DSinc]

Winterlight,
Yes I saw that. I believe that RCA jack supplies the audio signal to 
your Promedia amp, however you may need an RCA--->3.5mm patch cable.
IIRC, one of your Promedia speakers has the 'Pre-amp' fixed to the 
bottom of one of the speakers. It can be slid off the speaker if 
desired(well, I
did it on my Promedia system!). Several years back Klipsch updated the 
Pre-amp. They added a headphone jack (probably for private gaming_.

This is the 'model CA1' Pre-amp.
I continue to use my original 'model C Pre-amp. I find it much more 
'musical.' Sadly, the model C preamp is no longer available. Bummer.


I finally got the manual for the Sony STR DE345. The specs indicate it 
provides 100W per channel RMS. This would be more than enough oomph

to drive the Klipsch speakers should you choose to do this.
HTH,
Duncan
On 09/28/2014 20:10, Winterlight wrote:




In any case, I see no reason to try and drive the Klipsch speakers 
via the Sony A/V RCVR. As long as keep the volume down you should be 
quite OK. I did see an RCA connector on the back of the RCVR that 
might channel audio to the sub-woofer also.


yes Th Sony reciever has a subwoofer plug in  but the Promedia 
subwoofer contains the amp for the Pro Media system so how would that 
work. I think I would have to buy another subwoofer. Maybe I will 
contact Klipsch tomorrow and ask them.

Re: [H] video plug ins on a receiver

[Winterlight]

In any case, I see no reason to try and drive the Klipsch speakers 
via the Sony A/V RCVR. As long as keep the volume down you should be 
quite OK. I did see an RCA connector on the back of the RCVR that 
might channel audio to the sub-woofer also.


yes Th Sony reciever has a subwoofer plug in  but the Promedia 
subwoofer contains the amp for the Pro Media system so how would that 
work. I think I would have to buy another subwoofer. Maybe I will 
contact Klipsch tomorrow and ask them.

Re: [H] video plug ins on a receiver

[DSinc]

Winterlight,
Good thing you have the Klipsch system. Check the specs and focus on 
total power out (watts0, and/or power out per channel. Some simple math 
shows a 200W system can do 40W/channel, a 400W system (like my very old 
now Pro Media surround 4.1 system) maybe can do 80W/channel. After 20+ 
years I have managed to wear out both my front speakers due to cone 
separation at the speaker frames. Solution=by some replacement speakers. 
Still thinking.


In any case, I see no reason to try and drive the Klipsch speakers via 
the Sony A/V RCVR. As long as keep the volume down you should be quite 
OK. I did see an RCA connector on the back of the RCVR that might 
channel audio to the sub-woofer also.


I think Klipsch speakers can take a fair amount of abuse. And, I'll 
share that I have abused my Pro Media sysem several times; so no harm no 
foul! I still use it with the rear speakers (never could get the 
'surround' business to work. Yes, I do know what surround is all about!)

Good Luck,
Duncan

On 09/27/2014 16:12, Winterlight wrote:
Thanks Harry, I happen to have a new in the box klipsch ProMedia Ultra 
5.1  that purchased for a computer but I never got around to using. Is 
there anyway these can be plugged into the receiver? Maybe the front , 
rear and center speakers without the sub ... the sub has the amp in it.





At 12:59 PM 9/27/2014, you wrote:

Hi,

The video inputs (composite, svideo, component, and to some degree 
HDMI) are so that the receiver can also switch content for you.


Basically it intelligently sends the video to the TV and the audio to 
the speakers based off of what input you pick.


-Harry


On 09/27/2014 12:40 PM, Winterlight wrote:
 I haven't cared or paid any attention to audio setups in twenty 
plus years. I have sound bars on my TV... but that is all I need. I 
was given a old  Sony STR-DE345 Receiver 
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-YcStDQVeLrZ/p_156STRE345/Sony-STR-DE345.html 
. It is in pristine condition. I am only using it as a headphone amp 
for my TV. This 5.1 A/V receiver has plug ins for VHS, DVD with 
yellow RCA composite video plug ins but why video ... why does it 
have composite video plug ins on a audio receiver ?... I don't get it?

Re: [H] video plug ins on a receiver

[Winterlight]

Thanks Harry, I happen to have a new in the box klipsch ProMedia 
Ultra 5.1  that purchased for a computer but I never got around to 
using. Is there anyway these can be plugged into the receiver? Maybe 
the front , rear and center speakers without the sub ... the sub has 
the amp in it.





At 12:59 PM 9/27/2014, you wrote:

Hi,

The video inputs (composite, svideo, component, and to some degree 
HDMI) are so that the receiver can also switch content for you.


Basically it intelligently sends the video to the TV and the audio 
to the speakers based off of what input you pick.


-Harry


On 09/27/2014 12:40 PM, Winterlight wrote:
 I haven't cared or paid any attention to audio setups in twenty 
plus years. I have sound bars on my TV... but that is all I need. 
I was given a old  Sony STR-DE345 Receiver 
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-YcStDQVeLrZ/p_156STRE345/Sony-STR-DE345.html 
. It is in pristine condition. I am only using it as a headphone 
amp for my TV. This 5.1 A/V receiver has plug ins for VHS, DVD 
with yellow RCA composite video plug ins but why video ... why 
does it have composite video plug ins on a audio receiver ?... I don't get it?

Re: [H] video plug ins on a receiver

[Harry McGregor]

Hi,

The video inputs (composite, svideo, component, and to some degree HDMI) 
are so that the receiver can also switch content for you.


Basically it intelligently sends the video to the TV and the audio to 
the speakers based off of what input you pick.


-Harry


On 09/27/2014 12:40 PM, Winterlight wrote:
 I haven't cared or paid any attention to audio setups in twenty plus 
years. I have sound bars on my TV... but that is all I need. I was 
given a old  Sony STR-DE345 Receiver 
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-YcStDQVeLrZ/p_156STRE345/Sony-STR-DE345.html 
. It is in pristine condition. I am only using it as a headphone amp 
for my TV. This 5.1 A/V receiver has plug ins for VHS, DVD with yellow 
RCA composite video plug ins but why video ... why does it have 
composite video plug ins on a audio receiver ?... I don't get it?

[H] video plug ins on a receiver

[Winterlight]

 I haven't cared or paid any attention to audio setups in twenty 
plus years. I have sound bars on my TV... but that is all I need. I 
was given a old  Sony STR-DE345 Receiver 
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-YcStDQVeLrZ/p_156STRE345/Sony-STR-DE345.html 
. It is in pristine condition. I am only using it as a headphone amp 
for my TV. This 5.1 A/V receiver has plug ins for VHS, DVD with 
yellow RCA composite video plug ins but why video ... why does it 
have composite video plug ins on a audio receiver ?... I don't get it?

Re: [H] Video card suggestions please

[Joe User]

Hello Stan,

Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 7:31:54 PM, you wrote:

> Sounds like you have a more than adequate video card right now so why 
> upgrade? You want an Nvidia solution then go with the 480 which is 
> overkill in every way possible (heat, energy, noise etc.). AMD is a 
> different matter entirely and Nvidia can claim fastest video card on the
> planet but it will take another die shrink to become competitive with 
> Ati. Look for the 3rd or 4th quarter and Nvidia will have something 
> worth your hard earned money. Of course, AMD will be coming out with new
> hardware by then as well. Poor Nvidia just can't seem to catch a break
> by spreading themselves too thinly with all their other projects..


Hello James,

Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 11:47:45 AM, you wrote:

> Your 4870 is still pretty capable, to get something that
> meaningfully outperforms it you're looking at a radeon 5850/5870, or an 
> Nvidia GTX470/480




Thanks guys. I think I will sit tight another year or two. My reason
for upgrading was that STO lags a bit for me in ground missions and I
cannot run the game video at full - one step below is fine though. I
can deal with it. I'll check again at the end of the year. Appreciate
your time. 



-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card suggestions please

[Stan Zaske]

Sounds like you have a more than adequate video card right now so why 
upgrade? You want an Nvidia solution then go with the 480 which is 
overkill in every way possible (heat, energy, noise etc.). AMD is a 
different matter entirely and Nvidia can claim fastest video card on the 
planet but it will take another die shrink to become competitive with 
Ati. Look for the 3rd or 4th quarter and Nvidia will have something 
worth your hard earned money. Of course, AMD will be coming out with new 
hardware by then as well. Poor Nvidia just can't seem to catch a break 
by spreading themselves too thinly with all their other projects..



On 4/6/2010 11:31 AM, Joe User wrote:

Hello THG,

A few years ago, with the help of some of you, I put together a game
system which has served me well. I don't want to lay out for a new
system this year, maybe in another year or so. I mainly play WoW and
STO. However, I do play some Steam games, FPS, RTS, etc. I thought, I
would purchase a new video card to boost performance - as the rest of
the system seems to be serving me well. Here's what I have:

WinXP Pro SP3 32 bit
Intel E6850 (3 GHz)
4GB memory (I know XP limit)
(3) WD 740 Raptors
Gigabyte Intel P35 Chipset (P35-DS3P)
Samsung 244T

MSI ATI 1GB 4870


What would be a good card to go with for upgrade - strongly prefer a
nVidia solution this time...

I understand WoW is CPU limited but I think STO (my current addiction)
could use a better card but the rest of my specs are good. (?)

All advice is welcomed.


   

Re: [H] Video card suggestions please

[James Boswell]

Your 4870 is still pretty capable, to get something that meaningfully 
outperforms it you're looking at a radeon 5850/5870, or an Nvidia GTX470/480


On 6 Apr 2010, at 17:31, Joe User wrote:

> Hello THG,
> 
> A few years ago, with the help of some of you, I put together a game
> system which has served me well. I don't want to lay out for a new
> system this year, maybe in another year or so. I mainly play WoW and
> STO. However, I do play some Steam games, FPS, RTS, etc. I thought, I
> would purchase a new video card to boost performance - as the rest of
> the system seems to be serving me well. Here's what I have:
> 
> WinXP Pro SP3 32 bit
> Intel E6850 (3 GHz)
> 4GB memory (I know XP limit)
> (3) WD 740 Raptors
> Gigabyte Intel P35 Chipset (P35-DS3P)
> Samsung 244T
> 
> MSI ATI 1GB 4870
> 
> 
> What would be a good card to go with for upgrade - strongly prefer a
> nVidia solution this time...
> 
> I understand WoW is CPU limited but I think STO (my current addiction)
> could use a better card but the rest of my specs are good. (?)
> 
> All advice is welcomed.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...
> 
> "...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."
> 

[H] Video card suggestions please

[Joe User]

Hello THG,

A few years ago, with the help of some of you, I put together a game
system which has served me well. I don't want to lay out for a new
system this year, maybe in another year or so. I mainly play WoW and
STO. However, I do play some Steam games, FPS, RTS, etc. I thought, I
would purchase a new video card to boost performance - as the rest of
the system seems to be serving me well. Here's what I have:

WinXP Pro SP3 32 bit
Intel E6850 (3 GHz)
4GB memory (I know XP limit)
(3) WD 740 Raptors
Gigabyte Intel P35 Chipset (P35-DS3P)
Samsung 244T

MSI ATI 1GB 4870


What would be a good card to go with for upgrade - strongly prefer a
nVidia solution this time...

I understand WoW is CPU limited but I think STO (my current addiction)
could use a better card but the rest of my specs are good. (?)

All advice is welcomed.


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

[H] Video card problem driving me nuts

[Winterlight]

I have two ASUS ATI 4970 video cards that have given me a lot grief. 
The cooling fans on both died. It took the first one six months and 
the second one 11 months to die. Asus support proved worse then 
useless so I ended up putting a Arctic Cooling Silent solution the 
first one, and then my own replacement fan on the other. Temps have been fine.

I don't game that much and what I have done has never gotten them very warm.

Card number 1 powers a Gateway XHD3000 thirty inch display. and video 
card number 2 drives two Dell 24 inch displays. I have a brand new 
Sesonic 12S 850 watt PS so I have lots good clean power to power the cards.


I installed Win 7 in December and have had worsening video problems 
on card number 1 with the 30 inch monitor since mid january. At the 
beginning of the month I started seeing white lines on my desktop 
www.winterlight.org/lines.jpg . I tried updating the video driver 
which only made things much worse. Screen breakups are routine, 
and  the last couple of weeks I have had popups that say Display 
driver stopped responding and has recovered. I try going back to 
version 9x drivers but it didn't help much.


Lots of people seem to be having problems with that error message and 
ATI drivers. However, I have the white lines issue which seems to 
always come up when I reboot and  then disappear when I boot again. 
Maybe the drivers are choking at the high resolution, maybe the card 
#1 is bad. The other thing is that the Dell monitors coming off the 
second Video card are fine. I don't know if I have a bad card, bad 
drivers or both and how to find out.


I am so frustrated with it that if I could buy a single card to 
handle all the monitors I would do it. If I knew the 1 video card was 
bad I would replace it... do you have to have a exact match for 
crossfire... or does just the chip = 4870 have to match? thanks

Re: [H] Video conferencing

[Brian Weeden]

Having used both Skype and Google Chat, I find Google Chat to actually be a
bit more stable.  But both will work nicely.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
Montreal Office
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 4:02 PM, maccrawj  wrote:

> TokBox
>
>
> Anthony Q. Martin wrote:
>
>> Skype is free.
>>
>> Winterlight wrote:
>>
>>> I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try video
>>> conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera, so what
>>> software do I need to do this and is any good freeware?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [H] Video conferencing

[maccrawj]

TokBox

Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Skype is free.

Winterlight wrote:
I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try 
video conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera, so 
what software do I need to do this and is any good freeware?

Re: [H] Video conferencing

[JRS]

Logitech Vid is free too...  


 -- 
JRS 
stei...@pacbell.net


Facts do not cease to exist just
because they are ignored.



- Original Message 
> From: Anthony Q. Martin 
> To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 10:05:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [H] Video conferencing
> 
> Skype is free.
> 
> Winterlight wrote:
> > I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try video 
> conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera, so what 
> software 
> do I need to do this and is any good freeware?
> > 
> > 

Re: [H] Video conferencing

[Robert Martin Jr.]

You can use skype, MSN messenger, the new X-lite SIP softphone, etc. I used to 
always test the camera setup using ms netmeeting, then once working go to 
whichever one the client preferred.

lopaka





From: Winterlight 
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 9:12:17 AM
Subject: [H] Video conferencing

I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try video 
conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera, so what software 
do I need to do this and is any good freeware?

Re: [H] Video conferencing

[Richard Quilhot]

Have not tried it, gmail chat or yahoo IM.

On 10/1/09, Winterlight  wrote:
> I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try
> video conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera,
> so what software do I need to do this and is any good freeware?
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Richard E. Quilhot C.N.A.
quilh...@gmail.com

Re: [H] Video conferencing

[Bino Gopal]

Yep, Skype is probably the easiest one to use.  I use Trillian and you can
do like Yahoo video chat too; sure AIM or MSN etc support that too...so if
you have any of those installed, that's even easier!

BINO


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Q. Martin
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:05 AM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Video conferencing

Skype is free.

Winterlight wrote:
> I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try 
> video conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera, so 
> what software do I need to do this and is any good freeware?
>
>

Re: [H] Video conferencing

[Anthony Q. Martin]

Skype is free.

Winterlight wrote:
I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try 
video conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera, so 
what software do I need to do this and is any good freeware?

[H] Video conferencing

[Winterlight]

I have a new laptop that came with a built in camera. I want to try 
video conferenceing. I have a camera, the other party has a camera, 
so what software do I need to do this and is any good freeware?

Re: [H] Video

[maccrawj]

Composite or "yellow jack" is going to look like ass a few feet from the PC, nature 
of the beast. SVideo is the better choice at that end and you can get quite long 
svideo cables. The one I have is like 10M long & works great for watching video but 
not so hot for looking at desktop.


tmse...@rlrnews.com wrote:

Composite: up to 100' without any real loss, 200 for more

Dvi is trickier, after about 35 feet loss is significant

Hdmi about 40 - beyond that you are better off using hdmi to ethernet links (see monoprice).  


--Original Message--
From: Sam Franc
Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: [H] Video
Sent: May 24, 2009 10:24 AM

I would like to show my computer videos on my TV.
How long a video cable can I use?
The TV is in another room.
Sam


Sent via BlackBerry 

Re: [H] Video

[tmservo]

Composite: up to 100' without any real loss, 200 for more

Dvi is trickier, after about 35 feet loss is significant

Hdmi about 40 - beyond that you are better off using hdmi to ethernet links 
(see monoprice).  

--Original Message--
From: Sam Franc
Sender: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
ReplyTo: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: [H] Video
Sent: May 24, 2009 10:24 AM

I would like to show my computer videos on my TV.
How long a video cable can I use?
The TV is in another room.
Sam


Sent via BlackBerry 

Re: [H] Video

[Brian Weeden]

All depends on how you are sending the signal - coax, svideo, component,
composite, ethernet, etc.


Brian

On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Sam Franc  wrote:

> I would like to show my computer videos on my TV.
> How long a video cable can I use?
> The TV is in another room.
> Sam
>

[H] Video

[Sam Franc]

I would like to show my computer videos on my TV.
How long a video cable can I use?
The TV is in another room.
Sam

Re: [H] Video Player for Slow Computer

[maccrawj]

CPU, RAM and a video card that will handle the decoding is going to define if you can 
with either OS.


Steve Tomporowski wrote:
I've got a 1.2GHz Duron and a K7S5A Pro MB laying around and I'd like to 
set up a computer to show videos while I'm on the treadmill.


I'm not trying to do HD and I'd guess that XP would be a little too 
slow?  What about some version of Linux and a video player, would that 
do the trick?


Thanks...Steve


__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
signature database 4080 (20090515) __


The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] Video Player for Slow Computer

[Steve Tomporowski]

Sounds good, I can go with that.  I've doctored XP to be very small and 
lite -- so much so that a lot of stuff doesn't work...lol.


Joe User wrote:

Hello Steve,

Sunday, May 17, 2009, 10:48:45 AM, you wrote:


I've got a 1.2GHz Duron and a K7S5A Pro MB laying around and I'd like to
set up a computer to show videos while I'm on the treadmill.


I'm not trying to do HD and I'd guess that XP would be a little too 
slow?  What about some version of Linux and a video player, would that

do the trick?



XP would be fine just add plenty of ram (greater then 512 IMO) and
turn everything down such as UI effects, useless services, etc.





__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
database 4080 (20090515) __

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] Video Player for Slow Computer

[Joe User]

Hello Steve,

Sunday, May 17, 2009, 10:48:45 AM, you wrote:

> I've got a 1.2GHz Duron and a K7S5A Pro MB laying around and I'd like to
> set up a computer to show videos while I'm on the treadmill.

> I'm not trying to do HD and I'd guess that XP would be a little too 
> slow?  What about some version of Linux and a video player, would that
> do the trick?


XP would be fine just add plenty of ram (greater then 512 IMO) and
turn everything down such as UI effects, useless services, etc.


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video Player for Slow Computer

[Naushad Zulfiqar]

Vlc or mplayer.

On 5/17/09, Steve Tomporowski  wrote:
> I've got a 1.2GHz Duron and a K7S5A Pro MB laying around and I'd like to
> set up a computer to show videos while I'm on the treadmill.
>
> I'm not trying to do HD and I'd guess that XP would be a little too
> slow?  What about some version of Linux and a video player, would that
> do the trick?
>
> Thanks...Steve
>
>
> __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
> database 4080 (20090515) __
>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

Best Regards,


Zulfiqar Naushad

[H] Video Player for Slow Computer

[Steve Tomporowski]

I've got a 1.2GHz Duron and a K7S5A Pro MB laying around and I'd like to 
set up a computer to show videos while I'm on the treadmill.


I'm not trying to do HD and I'd guess that XP would be a little too 
slow?  What about some version of Linux and a video player, would that 
do the trick?


Thanks...Steve


__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
database 4080 (20090515) __

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [H] Video card fan problems

[maccrawj]

Install a good fan speed & temp monitoring app like GPU-Z & see what's really going 
on then hit it with futuremark to stress it.


Dunno about 4xxx series but the 3xxx's had a lot of fan control issues. If all they 
did was replace the fan and did not stress-test the card with futuremark for an 
extended period you could very well have a heat-stroked card. If that's the case you 
need to scream loudly until they replace it, otherwise only option is do a "buy & 
swap" returning the damaged card in place of the new one to let the vendor & asus 
work it out. ;)


Winterlight wrote:
I have two ASUS EAH4870 video cards installed. One I bought last 
December, and one in September. The December one's fan went out at the 
beginning of this month. One day I sat down to my computer, and it had 
turned it self off overnight. Every time I turned it on it would work 
for a while and then shut down.
Eventually, I figured out that the video cards fan wasn't always 
working, and when it went off it would get hot and the motherboard would 
shut  the PC down.

I RMA'd it .

The card came back yesterday, I installed it, things worked fine until a 
few hours ago at which time my PC turned off. Once again the fan was off 
and would not turn on after powering off and on. I called Asus and once 
again I am RMAing it.  Could it possibly be anything else that is 
causing this? I asked them if they could just send me a new fan to 
install but no.. I have to spend another 10-15 bucks sending it back to 
them.


I am beginning to think I should put my own fan on it,  even if it would 
void the warranty, but where would I find something like that? They must 
be highly engineered.


I feel like I am screwed here, and am going to go another two plus weeks 
with out my other monitors just because some guy didn't replace the fan 
the first time.

Re: [H] Video card fan problems

[DHSinclair]

Winterlight,
From your send, THE card you got back from the original RMA is now "WhoKnows."
If this card still works, except for temps, put a better cooler on it and go.
Kiss the warranty goodbye!

What "warranty" are you worried about?  Most of those warranties die prior 
to the buyer (you) level.

Well, as I read this List anywho..and personal experience!... :)

Key part is to be sure that the GPU did not become unhappy.  A tough call, 
yes, I know.
And, I suppose with all these modern video cards, my suggestion may not be 
as easy as in the old days.
Replacement coolers could be tough to find..Modern tech can 
still be a giant PITA!


Luck Bro...
Best,
Duncan


At 19:16 04/29/2009 -0700, you wrote:
I have two ASUS EAH4870 video cards installed. One I bought last December, 
and one in September. The December one's fan went out at the beginning of 
this month. One day I sat down to my computer, and it had turned it self 
off overnight. Every time I turned it on it would work for a while and 
then shut down.
Eventually, I figured out that the video cards fan wasn't always working, 
and when it went off it would get hot and the motherboard would shut  the 
PC down.

I RMA'd it .

The card came back yesterday, I installed it, things worked fine until a 
few hours ago at which time my PC turned off. Once again the fan was off 
and would not turn on after powering off and on. I called Asus and once 
again I am RMAing it.  Could it possibly be anything else that is 
causing this? I asked them if they could just send me a new fan to install 
but no.. I have to spend another 10-15 bucks sending it back to them.


I am beginning to think I should put my own fan on it,  even if it would 
void the warranty, but where would I find something like that? They must 
be highly engineered.


I feel like I am screwed here, and am going to go another two plus weeks 
with out my other monitors just because some guy didn't replace the fan 
the first time.



__ NOD32 4043 (20090429) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

[H] Video card fan problems

[Winterlight]

I have two ASUS EAH4870 video cards installed. One I bought last 
December, and one in September. The December one's fan went out at 
the beginning of this month. One day I sat down to my computer, and 
it had turned it self off overnight. Every time I turned it on it 
would work for a while and then shut down.
Eventually, I figured out that the video cards fan wasn't always 
working, and when it went off it would get hot and the motherboard 
would shut  the PC down.

I RMA'd it .

The card came back yesterday, I installed it, things worked fine 
until a few hours ago at which time my PC turned off. Once again the 
fan was off and would not turn on after powering off and on. I called 
Asus and once again I am RMAing it.  Could it possibly be 
anything else that is causing this? I asked them if they could just 
send me a new fan to install but no.. I have to spend another 10-15 
bucks sending it back to them.


I am beginning to think I should put my own fan on it,  even if it 
would void the warranty, but where would I find something like that? 
They must be highly engineered.


I feel like I am screwed here, and am going to go another two plus 
weeks with out my other monitors just because some guy didn't replace 
the fan the first time.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Christopher Fisk]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008, Joe User wrote:


Hello Stan,

Sunday, November 23, 2008, 8:48:46 PM, you wrote:


I feel the same way. I just want a single card powerful enough to play
modern games on my 24" monitor and leave it at that. Have you got "Wrath
of the Lich King" yet?


Yeah I preordered collectors from Amazon and then did a midnight
release for another copy at a Gamestop.


Meh, I just bought online direct from Blizzard and downloaded.


Christopher Fisk
--
"It's important for people to know that I'm the president of everybody."
George W. Bush, January 14, 2005, Aboard Air Force One

--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[DHSinclair]

LOL!
Rick,
That is a possibility, but it is a family dynamic thing.  Father is a 
self-professed computer wizard of the MS-Dos and W95 days. He adds 
dual-boot and special partitions so he can load all his old DOS tools. He 
maintains that he will fix his own computers "his" way.  The nephew is on 
XP; so is his wife (my Sister).  Father is constantly frustrated with XP 
because it often refuses to react properly to his build/repair/tweak 
attempts.  Father does not like XP because he can not "get under the hood" 
his way, believes a fat 16/32 partition is just fine.  NTFS is just another 
government conspiracy to take power away from the people!  I gave up 
support 3 years ago after too many arguments with Father. But, Father 
remains curious as to why my w2k and XP machines run trouble free, while he 
is often trying to fix things his "computer guru" son seems to do to his 
machine, and his Mother's machine, in his search for WoW 
nirvanah.But, I digress.and I've retired my 
Wizard's Wand now that I move into WinXP.  Back to student status

ROTFLMAO!  Often painfully.
Duncan

At 07:40 12/02/2008 -0500, you wrote:

From: "DHSinclair"
I have already been told that I may NOT fix my Sister's machine (even 
though I built the thing)!  She will call me for the real-time walk-thru of


Doesn't want you to find the porn?  

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[Rick Glazier]

From: "DHSinclair" 
I have already been told that I may NOT fix my Sister's machine (even 
though I built the thing)!  She will call me for the real-time walk-thru of 


Doesn't want you to find the porn?  

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[DHSinclair]

Eli,
Good share, but not quite focused enough.

At 18:57 12/01/2008 -0500, you wrote:

I question why you think you need a new card.  The reason why WinXP is only
showing 1024x768 as the max resolution is because that is the max resolution
the current monitor is telling the computer it supports.


I agree that many displays may default to whatever the Monitor's spec is 
believed to be; however, when I drill into the "Adapter" tab of properties 
and then select Advanced, I am shown the available resolutions and refresh 
rates of the video card.



  So more than
likely when the new monitor is plugged in WinXP will say 1440x900 is the max
resolution.


Well, that is expected for a "new" panel. But, suspecting that the current 
video card's driver might be dorked, and, that quite possibly nobody 
bothered to 'properly' load the dot-inf file for the current (suspect) 
panel, anything is indeed possible!  Since I now know that the video card 
is capable of 2048x1536 @75Hz (2D), it seems logical that Sis may not need 
a new video card yet.  We will work on getting the necessary drivers 
squared away first.




And if that doesn't work you could try;
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/207607.html
or just uninstall and reinstall the most current drivers for what is in
there now.


I will check the link in the AM, and, yes, drivers first B4 more 
dollars!  Well, except she does want a bigger panel...!!  I will post 
results in any case. Should be on the mend by Wednesday night.. :)

Thank you,
Duncan



Eli

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:49 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Video Card question(s)

Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the newer
wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?

I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a card that
is either AGP or PCI.  The current video card is an old Asus nVidia-based
card (1st/2d generation).  It is an {Asus V6800 Pure GeForce 256 DDR} in
AGP format.  It has been driving a GEM (scansport) 150A 15" VGA panel for
the last 3 years.  The panel is dying. It now has full width grey bars
wherever text is displayed.  Sis has lived with this anomaly for 18
months :)

My Sister has ordered a Dell SE178WFP. The native res is 1440x900.  Her
current video card (according to what winXP says) seems to top at
1024x768.  I do suspect somebody in the family has been dicking around and
killed the card's driver. I am the Uncle, so I can not say anything!  I did
supply all the innards of my Sister's machine (the best of my boneyard!).

Due to economic constraints, a current-tech modern video card is not
possible because the current m/b (Abit KG7) is limited to PCI and AGP only.

Is this possible?  If so, we have found a Christmas gift for my Sister!
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[DHSinclair]

Scott,
I have some old orders with tigerdirect.com.  I will go and noodle around 
there in the AM.
Yes, we both found the same reviews it seems.  I gave that old V6800 card 
to my Sister back in 2004. And it was from my "working" bone-yard 
then.  Not a problem.  A simple search at the nVidia site pointed to the 
v71.89 whql driver set for that old card!  Knowing what is possible at my 
Sister's home, anything and everything is possible!  Just the nature of the 
beast!  LOL!


I have already been told that I may NOT fix my Sister's machine (even 
though I built the thing)!  She will call me for the real-time walk-thru of 
, "So, Ya think your video card drivers are dorked?" process.  She want to 
drive the exercise.  With what I do know, and, what I have gotten over the 
years from the Collective, I think we will get it spiffy again in short 
order..until the new 17" wide panel 
arrives...new set of requirement, perhaps... LOL!

Thank you.
Duncan

At 16:52 12/01/2008 -0500, you wrote:

You can absolutely still get AGP and PCI cards. I bought a PCI card a
couple months ago for a multi-monitor office setup. I just went to a
local computer store and got the cheapest PCI card they had (I think
it was an ATI).

A quick search on tigerdirect.com (they have a "warehouse store" near
me) shows 30+ PCI cards, from $20 up. Same for AGP. For instance:


Sparkle GeForce MX4000 64MB AGP, $19.99

Now, all that being said, I googled "Asus V6800 Pure GeForce 256 DDR"
and came up with multiple reviews that claims the card's max
resolution is 2048x1536 at 75Hz -- so, I wouldn't give up on the card
yet. Could be their current monitor couldn't handle more than 1024, so
XP is allowing the higher res. I would def. give the current card a
shot once the new monitor is hooked up.

Scott

On Dec 1, 2008, at 2:49 PM, DHSinclair wrote:


Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the
newer wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?

I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a
card that is either AGP or PCI.  The current video card is an old
Asus nVidia-based card (1st/2d generation).  It is an {Asus V6800
Pure GeForce 256 DDR} in AGP format.  It has been driving a GEM
(scansport) 150A 15" VGA panel for the last 3 years.  The panel is
dying. It now has full width grey bars wherever text is displayed.
Sis has lived with this anomaly for 18 months :)

My Sister has ordered a Dell SE178WFP. The native res is 1440x900.
Her current video card (according to what winXP says) seems to top
at 1024x768.  I do suspect somebody in the family has been dicking
around and killed the card's driver. I am the Uncle, so I can not
say anything!  I did supply all the innards of my Sister's machine
(the best of my boneyard!).

Due to economic constraints, a current-tech modern video card is not
possible because the current m/b (Abit KG7) is limited to PCI and
AGP only.

Is this possible?  If so, we have found a Christmas gift for my
Sister!
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[DHSinclair]

j.,
Thanks.  You confirm my observations completely.  I know I have to move to 
the new PCI-e interface. I'll chum for AGP cards for my remaining 2 "old" 
clients until I can afford to bring them into the light of the current day.


I will save my old PCI Matrox cards for my server!  I know that the 
on-board Rage chip is getting to run out of gas... :)  No way I can 
afford to replace/upgrade my server ATM.

Best,
Duncan

At 13:28 12/01/2008 -0800, you wrote:
There are still AGP cards being made, or at least were. ATI for sure, NV 
dunno, but driver issues abound with ATI AGP solutions from what I read.


Regular PCI video died when AGP took over, as PCIe has done /now.

DHSinclair wrote:
Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the 
newer wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?
I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a card 
that is either AGP or PCI.  The current video card is an old Asus 
nVidia-based card (1st/2d generation).  It is an {Asus V6800 Pure GeForce 
256 DDR} in AGP format.  It has been driving a GEM (scansport) 150A 15" 
VGA panel for the last 3 years.  The panel is dying. It now has full 
width grey bars wherever text is displayed.  Sis has lived with this 
anomaly for 18 months :)
My Sister has ordered a Dell SE178WFP. The native res is 1440x900.  Her 
current video card (according to what winXP says) seems to top at 
1024x768.  I do suspect somebody in the family has been dicking around 
and killed the card's driver. I am the Uncle, so I can not say 
anything!  I did supply all the innards of my Sister's machine (the best 
of my boneyard!).
Due to economic constraints, a current-tech modern video card is not 
possible because the current m/b (Abit KG7) is limited to PCI and AGP only.

Is this possible?  If so, we have found a Christmas gift for my Sister!
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[Eli Allen]

I question why you think you need a new card.  The reason why WinXP is only
showing 1024x768 as the max resolution is because that is the max resolution
the current monitor is telling the computer it supports.  So more than
likely when the new monitor is plugged in WinXP will say 1440x900 is the max
resolution.

And if that doesn't work you could try;
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/207607.html
or just uninstall and reinstall the most current drivers for what is in
there now.

Eli

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DHSinclair
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:49 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Video Card question(s)

Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the newer 
wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?

I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a card that 
is either AGP or PCI.  The current video card is an old Asus nVidia-based 
card (1st/2d generation).  It is an {Asus V6800 Pure GeForce 256 DDR} in 
AGP format.  It has been driving a GEM (scansport) 150A 15" VGA panel for 
the last 3 years.  The panel is dying. It now has full width grey bars 
wherever text is displayed.  Sis has lived with this anomaly for 18 
months :)

My Sister has ordered a Dell SE178WFP. The native res is 1440x900.  Her 
current video card (according to what winXP says) seems to top at 
1024x768.  I do suspect somebody in the family has been dicking around and 
killed the card's driver. I am the Uncle, so I can not say anything!  I did 
supply all the innards of my Sister's machine (the best of my boneyard!).

Due to economic constraints, a current-tech modern video card is not 
possible because the current m/b (Abit KG7) is limited to PCI and AGP only.

Is this possible?  If so, we have found a Christmas gift for my Sister!
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[Scott Sipe]

You can absolutely still get AGP and PCI cards. I bought a PCI card a  
couple months ago for a multi-monitor office setup. I just went to a  
local computer store and got the cheapest PCI card they had (I think  
it was an ATI).


A quick search on tigerdirect.com (they have a "warehouse store" near  
me) shows 30+ PCI cards, from $20 up. Same for AGP. For instance:



Sparkle GeForce MX4000 64MB AGP, $19.99

Now, all that being said, I googled "Asus V6800 Pure GeForce 256 DDR"  
and came up with multiple reviews that claims the card's max  
resolution is 2048x1536 at 75Hz -- so, I wouldn't give up on the card  
yet. Could be their current monitor couldn't handle more than 1024, so  
XP is allowing the higher res. I would def. give the current card a  
shot once the new monitor is hooked up.


Scott

On Dec 1, 2008, at 2:49 PM, DHSinclair wrote:

Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the  
newer wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?


I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a  
card that is either AGP or PCI.  The current video card is an old  
Asus nVidia-based card (1st/2d generation).  It is an {Asus V6800  
Pure GeForce 256 DDR} in AGP format.  It has been driving a GEM  
(scansport) 150A 15" VGA panel for the last 3 years.  The panel is  
dying. It now has full width grey bars wherever text is displayed.   
Sis has lived with this anomaly for 18 months :)


My Sister has ordered a Dell SE178WFP. The native res is 1440x900.   
Her current video card (according to what winXP says) seems to top  
at 1024x768.  I do suspect somebody in the family has been dicking  
around and killed the card's driver. I am the Uncle, so I can not  
say anything!  I did supply all the innards of my Sister's machine  
(the best of my boneyard!).


Due to economic constraints, a current-tech modern video card is not  
possible because the current m/b (Abit KG7) is limited to PCI and  
AGP only.


Is this possible?  If so, we have found a Christmas gift for my  
Sister!

Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[Winterlight]

At 11:49 AM 12/1/2008, you wrote:
Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the 
newer wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?


I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a 
card that is either AGP or PCI.



your G450 AGP or PCI will do 1920X1200 in analog mode. Or if you need 
another one I have one. backchannel me.

Re: [H] Video Card question(s)

[maccrawj]

There are still AGP cards being made, or at least were. ATI for sure, NV dunno, but 
driver issues abound with ATI AGP solutions from what I read.


Regular PCI video died when AGP took over, as PCIe has done /now.

DHSinclair wrote:
Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the 
newer wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?


I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a card 
that is either AGP or PCI.  The current video card is an old Asus 
nVidia-based card (1st/2d generation).  It is an {Asus V6800 Pure 
GeForce 256 DDR} in AGP format.  It has been driving a GEM (scansport) 
150A 15" VGA panel for the last 3 years.  The panel is dying. It now has 
full width grey bars wherever text is displayed.  Sis has lived with 
this anomaly for 18 months :)


My Sister has ordered a Dell SE178WFP. The native res is 1440x900.  Her 
current video card (according to what winXP says) seems to top at 
1024x768.  I do suspect somebody in the family has been dicking around 
and killed the card's driver. I am the Uncle, so I can not say 
anything!  I did supply all the innards of my Sister's machine (the best 
of my boneyard!).


Due to economic constraints, a current-tech modern video card is not 
possible because the current m/b (Abit KG7) is limited to PCI and AGP only.


Is this possible?  If so, we have found a Christmas gift for my Sister!
Thank you,
Duncan

[H] Video Card question(s)

[DHSinclair]

Are there still PCI and AGP video cards available that can image the newer 
wide-screen panels at their native resolutions?


I do know that most PCI-e video cards do, but I have a need for a card that 
is either AGP or PCI.  The current video card is an old Asus nVidia-based 
card (1st/2d generation).  It is an {Asus V6800 Pure GeForce 256 DDR} in 
AGP format.  It has been driving a GEM (scansport) 150A 15" VGA panel for 
the last 3 years.  The panel is dying. It now has full width grey bars 
wherever text is displayed.  Sis has lived with this anomaly for 18 
months :)


My Sister has ordered a Dell SE178WFP. The native res is 1440x900.  Her 
current video card (according to what winXP says) seems to top at 
1024x768.  I do suspect somebody in the family has been dicking around and 
killed the card's driver. I am the Uncle, so I can not say anything!  I did 
supply all the innards of my Sister's machine (the best of my boneyard!).


Due to economic constraints, a current-tech modern video card is not 
possible because the current m/b (Abit KG7) is limited to PCI and AGP only.


Is this possible?  If so, we have found a Christmas gift for my Sister!
Thank you,
Duncan

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Raul Limos]

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Joe User <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> MSI R4870 T2D1G OC Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP 
> Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
>
>  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127389
>
> I just feel I should try the ATI solution, support AMD, and give this
> a chance. I thank everyone for all their input. it is appreciated.

Go for it.  Based on the review at Anandtech this is almost as fast
the nVidia 280 at lower the price.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello HWG,

Friday, November 21, 2008, 7:50:26 PM, I wrote:

> Hello,

> Sometime ago, I ask and received advice on a gaming system. It's now
> time to upgrade the video card I am thinking. I am a WoW player and
> have WotLK. I raid 25 mans. I run XP Pro. All the system does is game.

> Running 4GB @ 1066 with the Gigabyte P35 DS3P and a Core 2 Duo 3GHz
> e6850 in an Antec 900 case all this is being powered by a Seasonic
> s12 80 550w. My current video being an MSI 8800GTX single card.

> This board supports SLI but the second slot does not run at 16X, it runs
> at 4X. The card I am considering is the ATI (gasp!) 4870X2 which is
> like SLI on one card (basically). So I would just replace the card I
> currently have. The 4870 is nearly 11 inches long but I understand I
> have the room and I will double check before I make the purchase.

> ATI v. Nvidia
> aside, I want to give ATI a shot here since I have always used Nvidia
> and now with AMD at the wheel... plus the 4870 is the hottest thing
> right now.

> What I seek advice on is this: Is this a wise move? Would Dual SLI
> 8800 GTX's be better even with the 16x / 4x thing going on? Something
> else that I may not even be aware of? The card is 550 bucks so i
> wanted to get some opinions before i shelled out the money.


MSI R4870 T2D1G OC Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP 
Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127389


I was compelled to try ATI, the Nvidia 260/216 was so close.
If I just wanted to stay with the Nvidia camp the choice was clear.
I just feel I should try the ATI solution, support AMD, and give this
a chance. I thank everyone for all their input. it is appreciated.


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[al]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Al

Re: [H] Video card question

[Brian Weeden]

AMD cards are great - I've been buying them exclusively for the last several
years.  It's their drivers that are crap (although to be fair, Nvidia's are
far from perfect as well, but AMD's are worse still).

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Consultant
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 9:35 AM, maccrawj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You think ATI is ruining AMD? Excuse me for the insult, but you are a moron
> sir! Read a bit about AMD's business practices and their effect on both
> companies.
>
> If you're insinuating that ATI video cards are sub-par, then you've been
> drinking NV cool-aid while ignoring reviews & benchmarks.
>
>
> FORC5 wrote:
>
>> other way around me thinks
>> fp
>> :'(
>> At 11:07 AM 11/20/2008, maccrawj Poked the stick with:
>>
>>> Stan is taking about AMD/ATI's video cards I assume. AMD now owns (and so
>>> far is ruining) ATI.
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [H] Video card question

[maccrawj]

You think ATI is ruining AMD? Excuse me for the insult, but you are a moron sir! Read 
a bit about AMD's business practices and their effect on both companies.


If you're insinuating that ATI video cards are sub-par, then you've been drinking NV 
cool-aid while ignoring reviews & benchmarks.


FORC5 wrote:

other way around me thinks
fp
:'(
At 11:07 AM 11/20/2008, maccrawj Poked the stick with:

Stan is taking about AMD/ATI's video cards I assume. AMD now owns (and so far 
is ruining) ATI.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Jason.Tozer]

2 x HD4850 are arguably better for a lot of people.

The 4850 blows all previous arguments against dual gfx cards out of the
water..the price/performance ratio on them is outstanding.

I personally use the 4870x2 but I have a 30" display to run, which ties
my hands somewhat.

Still, I'd prefer nVidia to match the price/performance figures that AMD
are currently forging as the AMD drivers leave a LOT to be desired. The
AMD tech is also still a stride or 2 behind nVidias.needing to
sandwich 2 GPUs together to beat nVidia tells the real story.

At least there is a choice now I guess :P


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of maccrawj
Sent: 24 November 2008 14:39
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

For multi-GPU on a P35 the HDx870X2's (3 or 4 series) are the only way.

Also need to watch for dead air issues in the card cage area on some
cases with these 
beasts.

No matter what, avoid Sapphire!!!

James Boswell wrote:
> hi,
> 
> Your P35 chipset mainboard doesn't support SLI, it DOES support 
> crossfire, you can run a pair of radeons (the X2 notwithstanding,
whilst 
> that uses crossfire, it's a single board and will work on anything
with 
> a PCI-E slot) but a second Geforce will only operate in a "drive
another 
> monitor" capacity
> 
> the 4870 1GB is also a very big performance hike over an 8800GTX, but 
> the 4870X2 is totally in a world of it's own as far as sheer 
> maximumfastness goes.
> One thing to watch for is, a full length dual height heatsink can
cause 
> issues with SATA ports...
> 
> *googles*
> 
> Looks like your ports are out of the overlap zone though.
> My P5K-E/Wifi-AP is.. not so lucky :(
> 


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Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[maccrawj]

Right now is wrong time to buy a card as the 2x0's & the HD48xx series are so new 
that prices are too high. Arguments have been made that 2x0 being cheaper is better 
way to go, I say wait for prices to level off before making that mistake.


The reason to buy such a highend card is two fold: 1. ample speed for today, enough 
for tomorrow, 2. to be upgrade proof long enough to justify investment. Even if #1 
has you looking lower, #2 is reason to wait & buy highend.


Joe User wrote:

Hello Raul,

Monday, November 24, 2008, 4:04:29 AM, you wrote:


Far Cry 2 and the ATI and nVidia cards:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3463&p=1


This gives a better perspective, I may not waste my money on an X2.
Seems like way overkill for WoW. Sad no one does tests with WoW
anymore. Thanks thanks and thanks again for all these links and help.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[DHSinclair]

Yes, so did I. Shocked I was!
Duncan

At 07:29 11/24/2008 -0700, you wrote:

saw an add for a new Tombraider game on TV the other day.
fp

At 05:56 PM 11/23/2008, DHSinclair Poked the stick with:
>Al,
>Perhaps MS Flight Sim in a demo mode; MS train sim in a demo mode, Sim City.
>Hard to say. I most play the old Tomb Raider games I never finished.
>Duncan

--
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Gene Police: Hey YOU! Get out of this pool.

Re: [H] Video card question

[FORC5]

experience, every ATI card I ever dealt with either new install, upgrade or 
whatever has been a PITA

I try real hard not to slam my thumb in the car door more then once
fp


At 07:35 AM 11/24/2008, maccrawj Poked the stick with:
>You think ATI is ruining AMD? Excuse me for the insult, but you are a moron 
>sir! Read a bit about AMD's business practices and their effect on both 
>companies.
>
>If you're insinuating that ATI video cards are sub-par, then you've been 
>drinking NV cool-aid while ignoring reviews & benchmarks.
>
>FORC5 wrote:
>>other way around me thinks
>>fp
>>:'(
>>At 11:07 AM 11/20/2008, maccrawj Poked the stick with:
>>>Stan is taking about AMD/ATI's video cards I assume. AMD now owns (and so 
>>>far is ruining) ATI.
>
>-- 
>Tallyho ! ]:8)
>Taglines below !
>--
>Gene Police: Hey YOU! Get out of this pool.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[maccrawj]

Blah blah, it's always a moving target, there will be a driver update. Of course Ubi 
is moronic to begin with & I'd not be surprised if they developed on/for NV which is 
the ultimate source of the problem. Developing for one brand is a practice that's 
needs to stop as it's screwing the customer.




Raul Limos wrote:

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I feel the same way. I just want a single card powerful enough to play
modern games on my 24" monitor and leave it at that.


Far Cry 2 and the ATI and nVidia cards:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3463&p=1

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[maccrawj]

For multi-GPU on a P35 the HDx870X2's (3 or 4 series) are the only way.

Also need to watch for dead air issues in the card cage area on some cases with these 
beasts.


No matter what, avoid Sapphire!!!

James Boswell wrote:

hi,

Your P35 chipset mainboard doesn't support SLI, it DOES support 
crossfire, you can run a pair of radeons (the X2 notwithstanding, whilst 
that uses crossfire, it's a single board and will work on anything with 
a PCI-E slot) but a second Geforce will only operate in a "drive another 
monitor" capacity


the 4870 1GB is also a very big performance hike over an 8800GTX, but 
the 4870X2 is totally in a world of it's own as far as sheer 
maximumfastness goes.
One thing to watch for is, a full length dual height heatsink can cause 
issues with SATA ports...


*googles*

Looks like your ports are out of the overlap zone though.
My P5K-E/Wifi-AP is.. not so lucky :(

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[FORC5]

saw an add for a new Tombraider game on TV the other day.
fp

At 05:56 PM 11/23/2008, DHSinclair Poked the stick with:
>Al,
>Perhaps MS Flight Sim in a demo mode; MS train sim in a demo mode, Sim City.
>Hard to say. I most play the old Tomb Raider games I never finished.
>Duncan

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
Gene Police: Hey YOU! Get out of this pool.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello Raul,

Monday, November 24, 2008, 4:04:29 AM, you wrote:

> Far Cry 2 and the ATI and nVidia cards:
> http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3463&p=1

This gives a better perspective, I may not waste my money on an X2.
Seems like way overkill for WoW. Sad no one does tests with WoW
anymore. Thanks thanks and thanks again for all these links and help.

-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello Stan,

Sunday, November 23, 2008, 8:48:46 PM, you wrote:

> I feel the same way. I just want a single card powerful enough to play
> modern games on my 24" monitor and leave it at that. Have you got "Wrath
> of the Lich King" yet?

Yeah I preordered collectors from Amazon and then did a midnight
release for another copy at a Gamestop.

-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Raul Limos]

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I feel the same way. I just want a single card powerful enough to play
> modern games on my 24" monitor and leave it at that.

Far Cry 2 and the ATI and nVidia cards:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3463&p=1

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Stan Zaske]

I feel the same way. I just want a single card powerful enough to play 
modern games on my 24" monitor and leave it at that. Have you got "Wrath 
of the Lich King" yet?



Joe User wrote:

Hello Stan,

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 4:00:11 PM, you wrote:

  

Using two 4870's in crossfire would be a waste unless you upgrade to an
X48 chipset mobo. Running one of them in a PCIe X16 slot with only 4 
PCIe lanes would kill its performance IMHO. Also, the single card X2 
would use slightly less electricity which also concerns a lot of people

nowadays. Glad you want to support AMD.



IIRC, when i asked for advice on this system I wanted to avoid a
second card and therefore it justified this board.

  

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello Stan,

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 4:00:11 PM, you wrote:

> Using two 4870's in crossfire would be a waste unless you upgrade to an
> X48 chipset mobo. Running one of them in a PCIe X16 slot with only 4 
> PCIe lanes would kill its performance IMHO. Also, the single card X2 
> would use slightly less electricity which also concerns a lot of people
> nowadays. Glad you want to support AMD.

IIRC, when i asked for advice on this system I wanted to avoid a
second card and therefore it justified this board.

-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello maccrawj,

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 11:09:05 PM, you wrote:

> Dunno cheap or faster but main advantage of X2's is there's only a single 
> slot's
> space & bus lines tied up. This leaves room later for a second X2 down the 
> road.

Yeah or just going all the way now and upgrading board, cpu, ram, and
video much later down the road... I want this to be it as far as
'upgrades' go for this system. WoW plays fine but it seems like a good
time to get a new card and spend the cash.

-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello James,

Sunday, November 23, 2008, 3:50:51 AM, you wrote:

> It's also worth noting that most 4870's have 512MB of ram, there are  
> 1GB models out there however...

Yeah only 40 to 60 bucks more also, makes sense to get he 1GB - which
is also echoed in Stan's latest post and link.

> Meanwhile _all_ the 4870X2's have 1GB of ram per GPU, for a lovely  
> warm fuzzy 2GB total

Yeah, i think it would be future proofing but now I am not as sure. 

-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello Stan,

Sunday, November 23, 2008, 3:07:37 PM, you wrote:

> Joe there are two versions of the GTX 260. The older one with 192 
> shaders and the new one with 216. Check this out.
> http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU4Nyw5LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Indeed. This is also very smart and timely information. I know that
monitor size and intended resolution now help justify the card. I
wondered at what point I might get into overkill. Again, thanks.

-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[DHSinclair]

Al,
Perhaps MS Flight Sim in a demo mode; MS train sim in a demo mode, Sim City.
Hard to say. I most play the old Tomb Raider games I never finished.
Duncan

At 18:34 11/23/2008 -0600, you wrote:

Hello Al,

Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:09:13 PM, you wrote:


> Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Speaking of good games, check this gameplay video out.>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxXgw-6xbE&feature=related

> And speaking of games, would someone please suggest something I can have
> running in my shop for customers to see. Something that would show off
> the power of the latest in hardware but have little or no violence, as
> not to offend anyone.

> TIA,
> al


Probably a 3d mark benchmark program?


--
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Stan Zaske]

Unfortunately for al, most games are violent but the suggestion to use a 
benchmark app is good.


http://arstechnica.com/reviews/games/mirrors-edge-review.ars


Brian Weeden wrote:

Mirror's Edge:

http://www.mirrorsedge.com/

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Consultant
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Speaking of good games, check this gameplay video out.>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxXgw-6xbE&feature=related
  

And speaking of games, would someone please suggest something I can have
running in my shop for customers to see. Something that would show off
the power of the latest in hardware but have little or no violence, as
not to offend anyone.

TIA,
al




  

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Brian Weeden]

Mirror's Edge:

http://www.mirrorsedge.com/

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Consultant
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 7:09 PM, Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Speaking of good games, check this gameplay video out.>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxXgw-6xbE&feature=related
>
> And speaking of games, would someone please suggest something I can have
> running in my shop for customers to see. Something that would show off
> the power of the latest in hardware but have little or no violence, as
> not to offend anyone.
>
> TIA,
> al
>

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello Al,

Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:09:13 PM, you wrote:


> Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Speaking of good games, check this gameplay video out.> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxXgw-6xbE&feature=related

> And speaking of games, would someone please suggest something I can have
> running in my shop for customers to see. Something that would show off
> the power of the latest in hardware but have little or no violence, as
> not to offend anyone.

> TIA,
> al


Probably a 3d mark benchmark program?


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Stan Zaske]

I don't play sports games but thats one possibility.


Al wrote:

Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
Speaking of good games, check this gameplay video out.> 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxXgw-6xbE&feature=related



And speaking of games, would someone please suggest something I can have
running in my shop for customers to see. Something that would show off
the power of the latest in hardware but have little or no violence, as
not to offend anyone.

TIA,
al

  

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Al]

Stan Zaske <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Speaking of good games, check this gameplay video out.> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxXgw-6xbE&feature=related

And speaking of games, would someone please suggest something I can have
running in my shop for customers to see. Something that would show off
the power of the latest in hardware but have little or no violence, as
not to offend anyone.

TIA,
al

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Stan Zaske]

Speaking of good games, check this gameplay video out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsxXgw-6xbE&feature=related


Brian Weeden wrote:

Sorry I'm late to the discussion.  I just replaced my old card with a HD4850
and couldn't be happier.  Was able to play Dead Space and Fallout 3 at
1900x1200 and max settings and it only cost me around $200.  That's my kind
of video card.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Consultant
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM, John R Steinbruner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

  

Thanx for all the nice reading pointers, hell, I still have an nVidia 8800
GT 512meg card that plays Crysis just find,
and it was a good bang for the buck card at the time...

I don't even know the 9xxx series, let alone the new 260 and 280's...  :(

Is nVidia gonna still sell 9xxx's as well as the new 260/280's, or are the
9xxx series being discontinued?




Snip

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Brian Weeden]

Sorry I'm late to the discussion.  I just replaced my old card with a HD4850
and couldn't be happier.  Was able to play Dead Space and Fallout 3 at
1900x1200 and max settings and it only cost me around $200.  That's my kind
of video card.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Consultant
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM, John R Steinbruner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Thanx for all the nice reading pointers, hell, I still have an nVidia 8800
> GT 512meg card that plays Crysis just find,
> and it was a good bang for the buck card at the time...
>
> I don't even know the 9xxx series, let alone the new 260 and 280's...  :(
>
> Is nVidia gonna still sell 9xxx's as well as the new 260/280's, or are the
> 9xxx series being discontinued?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 23, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Stan Zaske wrote:
>
>  Joe there are two versions of the GTX 260. The older one with 192 shaders
>> and the new one with 216. Check this out.
>>
>> http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU4Nyw5LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
>>
>>
>> Joe User wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Raul,
>>>
>>> Saturday, November 22, 2008, 3:58:06 PM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...
>
>
>>>
>>>  Check out also the Nvidia Geforce GTX 260/216 Black Edition:
 http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1836_1.html


>>> Well this read threw a major wrench in the process...  ;)
>>>
>>> Thanks though, I have to weigh things again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> JRS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Please remove  **X**  to reply...
>
> Facts do not cease to exist just
> because they are ignored.
>
>

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[John R Steinbruner]

Thanx for all the nice reading pointers, hell, I still have an nVidia  
8800 GT 512meg card that plays Crysis just find,

and it was a good bang for the buck card at the time...

I don't even know the 9xxx series, let alone the new 260 and  
280's...  :(


Is nVidia gonna still sell 9xxx's as well as the new 260/280's, or are  
the 9xxx series being discontinued?





On Nov 23, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Stan Zaske wrote:

Joe there are two versions of the GTX 260. The older one with 192  
shaders and the new one with 216. Check this out.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU4Nyw5LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==


Joe User wrote:

Hello Raul,

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 3:58:06 PM, you wrote:



I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...





Check out also the Nvidia Geforce GTX 260/216 Black Edition:
http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1836_1.html



Well this read threw a major wrench in the process...  ;)

Thanks though, I have to weigh things again.







--
JRS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please remove  **X**  to reply...

Facts do not cease to exist just
because they are ignored.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Stan Zaske]

Joe there are two versions of the GTX 260. The older one with 192 
shaders and the new one with 216. Check this out.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTU4Nyw5LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==


Joe User wrote:

Hello Raul,

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 3:58:06 PM, you wrote:

  

I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...
  


  

Check out also the Nvidia Geforce GTX 260/216 Black Edition:
http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1836_1.html



Well this read threw a major wrench in the process...  ;)

Thanks though, I have to weigh things again.

  

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Raul Limos]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Joe User <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Well this read threw a major wrench in the process...  ;)
>
> Thanks though, I have to weigh things again.
>

Your welcome.  Just trying to give you the best possible options out there.

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[James Boswell]

It's also worth noting that most 4870's have 512MB of ram, there are  
1GB models out there however...


Meanwhile _all_ the 4870X2's have 1GB of ram per GPU, for a lovely  
warm fuzzy 2GB total


On 23 Nov 2008, at 05:09, maccrawj wrote:

Dunno cheap or faster but main advantage of X2's is there's only a  
single slot's space & bus lines tied up. This leaves room later for  
a second X2 down the road.




Joe User wrote:

Hello Stan,
Friday, November 21, 2008, 11:19:44 PM, you wrote:
As I've stated previously, I'm pro-AMD. Having said that you might  
be interested in this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462

Excellent read, thanks for the link. Seems to me they give the nod to
the 4870 in the end. I could probably infer the 4870X2 would rock
also. I now have to consider would it be better (it would be cheaper)
to do two 4870's or just do the 4870X2? Hmmm
I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello Raul,

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 3:58:06 PM, you wrote:

>> I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...

> Check out also the Nvidia Geforce GTX 260/216 Black Edition:
> http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1836_1.html

Well this read threw a major wrench in the process...  ;)

Thanks though, I have to weigh things again.

-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[maccrawj]

Dunno cheap or faster but main advantage of X2's is there's only a single slot's 
space & bus lines tied up. This leaves room later for a second X2 down the road.




Joe User wrote:

Hello Stan,

Friday, November 21, 2008, 11:19:44 PM, you wrote:

As I've stated previously, I'm pro-AMD. Having said that you might be 
interested in this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462



Excellent read, thanks for the link. Seems to me they give the nod to
the 4870 in the end. I could probably infer the 4870X2 would rock
also. I now have to consider would it be better (it would be cheaper)
to do two 4870's or just do the 4870X2? Hmmm

I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Stan Zaske]

Using two 4870's in crossfire would be a waste unless you upgrade to an 
X48 chipset mobo. Running one of them in a PCIe X16 slot with only 4 
PCIe lanes would kill its performance IMHO. Also, the single card X2 
would use slightly less electricity which also concerns a lot of people 
nowadays. Glad you want to support AMD.


Joe User wrote:

Hello Stan,

Friday, November 21, 2008, 11:19:44 PM, you wrote:

  
As I've stated previously, I'm pro-AMD. Having said that you might be 
interested in this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462




Excellent read, thanks for the link. Seems to me they give the nod to
the 4870 in the end. I could probably infer the 4870X2 would rock
also. I now have to consider would it be better (it would be cheaper)
to do two 4870's or just do the 4870X2? Hmmm

I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...


  

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Raul Limos]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 1:02 AM, Joe User <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Excellent read, thanks for the link. Seems to me they give the nod to
> the 4870 in the end. I could probably infer the 4870X2 would rock
> also. I now have to consider would it be better (it would be cheaper)
> to do two 4870's or just do the 4870X2? Hmmm
>
> I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...

Check out also the Nvidia Geforce GTX 260/216 Black Edition:
http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1836_1.html


Microstuttering is sort of a buzzword nowadays with SLI'd or mutli-GPU
video cards:
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=631668
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,653711/Practice/PCGH_proves_micro_stuttering_on_the_Radeon_HD_4870_X2/
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=194808

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[DHSinclair]

Stan,
Thank you for this link.  I finally read it. It does fill in some of the 
nVidia gaps in my overall comprehension of what has happened since the 
GeForce 4 series of cards. Post GF4, nVidia just got too confusing for me 
to follow and way too expensive.  At that time, ATI was not the obvious 
competitor it is now.  I still own some nVidia FX5500 cards, but they are 
just transitional for me; I got them just to replace even old GF3 and GF2 
nvidia cards that finally completed their RTF process.  Based on my read of 
this review, nVidia still has some work to do at their top end, but due to 
that, I am more reluctant to even continue with their mid or higher level 
product.


I am going to go back and re-look at that MSI ATI radion card you suggested 
several days ago. Heck, since I am now back to trying Intel cpus again, I 
may as well broaden my experience and dabble with an ATI-based video 
card.  Thank you.

Best,
Duncan

 At 23:19 11/21/2008 -0600, you wrote:
As I've stated previously, I'm pro-AMD. Having said that you might be 
interested in this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462


snip

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello James,

Saturday, November 22, 2008, 4:04:03 AM, you wrote:

> hi,

> Your P35 chipset mainboard doesn't support SLI, it DOES support  
> crossfire, you can run a pair of radeons (the X2 notwithstanding,  
> whilst that uses crossfire, it's a single board and will work on  
> anything with a PCI-E slot) but a second Geforce will only operate in
> a "drive another monitor" capacity

Ahhh very good. So it looks like I need to look at dual 4870's v. a
4870X2...

> the 4870 1GB is also a very big performance hike over an 8800GTX, but
> the 4870X2 is totally in a world of it's own as far as sheer  
> maximumfastness goes.
> One thing to watch for is, a full length dual height heatsink can  
> cause issues with SATA ports...

Yeah, and it would be the final and only upgrade I would do to this
system. When the WoW thing comes to an end I am getting out, forever.

> *googles*

> Looks like your ports are out of the overlap zone though.
> My P5K-E/Wifi-AP is.. not so lucky :(

I appreciate knowing that, I'll double check just to be sure. Maybe
space will determine if I go dual 4870's or a 4870X2. I get 460 price
on duals and 530 on the single X2 that's a lot of money, but will
I suffer in performance?



-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello Stan,

Friday, November 21, 2008, 11:19:44 PM, you wrote:

> As I've stated previously, I'm pro-AMD. Having said that you might be 
> interested in this article.
> http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462


Excellent read, thanks for the link. Seems to me they give the nod to
the 4870 in the end. I could probably infer the 4870X2 would rock
also. I now have to consider would it be better (it would be cheaper)
to do two 4870's or just do the 4870X2? Hmmm

I have to say I am excited to give ATI a spin...


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[James Boswell]

hi,

Your P35 chipset mainboard doesn't support SLI, it DOES support  
crossfire, you can run a pair of radeons (the X2 notwithstanding,  
whilst that uses crossfire, it's a single board and will work on  
anything with a PCI-E slot) but a second Geforce will only operate in  
a "drive another monitor" capacity


the 4870 1GB is also a very big performance hike over an 8800GTX, but  
the 4870X2 is totally in a world of it's own as far as sheer  
maximumfastness goes.
One thing to watch for is, a full length dual height heatsink can  
cause issues with SATA ports...


*googles*

Looks like your ports are out of the overlap zone though.
My P5K-E/Wifi-AP is.. not so lucky :(

On 22 Nov 2008, at 01:50, Joe User wrote:


Hello,

Sometime ago, I ask and received advice on a gaming system. It's now
time to upgrade the video card I am thinking. I am a WoW player and
have WotLK. I raid 25 mans. I run XP Pro. All the system does is game.

Running 4GB @ 1066 with the Gigabyte P35 DS3P and a Core 2 Duo 3GHz
e6850 in an Antec 900 case all this is being powered by a Seasonic
s12 80 550w. My current video being an MSI 8800GTX single card.

This board supports SLI but the second slot does not run at 16X, it  
runs

at 4X. The card I am considering is the ATI (gasp!) 4870X2 which is
like SLI on one card (basically). So I would just replace the card I
currently have. The 4870 is nearly 11 inches long but I understand I
have the room and I will double check before I make the purchase.

ATI v. Nvidia
aside, I want to give ATI a shot here since I have always used Nvidia
and now with AMD at the wheel... plus the 4870 is the hottest thing
right now.

What I seek advice on is this: Is this a wise move? Would Dual SLI
8800 GTX's be better even with the 16x / 4x thing going on? Something
else that I may not even be aware of? The card is 550 bucks so i
wanted to get some opinions before i shelled out the money.


--
Regards,
joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card upgrade time

[Stan Zaske]

As I've stated previously, I'm pro-AMD. Having said that you might be 
interested in this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3462


Joe User wrote:

Hello,

Sometime ago, I ask and received advice on a gaming system. It's now
time to upgrade the video card I am thinking. I am a WoW player and
have WotLK. I raid 25 mans. I run XP Pro. All the system does is game.

Running 4GB @ 1066 with the Gigabyte P35 DS3P and a Core 2 Duo 3GHz
e6850 in an Antec 900 case all this is being powered by a Seasonic
s12 80 550w. My current video being an MSI 8800GTX single card.

This board supports SLI but the second slot does not run at 16X, it runs
at 4X. The card I am considering is the ATI (gasp!) 4870X2 which is
like SLI on one card (basically). So I would just replace the card I
currently have. The 4870 is nearly 11 inches long but I understand I
have the room and I will double check before I make the purchase.

ATI v. Nvidia
aside, I want to give ATI a shot here since I have always used Nvidia
and now with AMD at the wheel... plus the 4870 is the hottest thing
right now.

What I seek advice on is this: Is this a wise move? Would Dual SLI
8800 GTX's be better even with the 16x / 4x thing going on? Something
else that I may not even be aware of? The card is 550 bucks so i
wanted to get some opinions before i shelled out the money.


  

[H] Video card upgrade time

[Joe User]

Hello,

Sometime ago, I ask and received advice on a gaming system. It's now
time to upgrade the video card I am thinking. I am a WoW player and
have WotLK. I raid 25 mans. I run XP Pro. All the system does is game.

Running 4GB @ 1066 with the Gigabyte P35 DS3P and a Core 2 Duo 3GHz
e6850 in an Antec 900 case all this is being powered by a Seasonic
s12 80 550w. My current video being an MSI 8800GTX single card.

This board supports SLI but the second slot does not run at 16X, it runs
at 4X. The card I am considering is the ATI (gasp!) 4870X2 which is
like SLI on one card (basically). So I would just replace the card I
currently have. The 4870 is nearly 11 inches long but I understand I
have the room and I will double check before I make the purchase.

ATI v. Nvidia
aside, I want to give ATI a shot here since I have always used Nvidia
and now with AMD at the wheel... plus the 4870 is the hottest thing
right now.

What I seek advice on is this: Is this a wise move? Would Dual SLI
8800 GTX's be better even with the 16x / 4x thing going on? Something
else that I may not even be aware of? The card is 550 bucks so i
wanted to get some opinions before i shelled out the money.


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Video card question

[FORC5]

other way around me thinks
fp
:'(
At 11:07 AM 11/20/2008, maccrawj Poked the stick with:
>Stan is taking about AMD/ATI's video cards I assume. AMD now owns (and so far 
>is ruining) ATI.

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
AMD's melt in your PC, not in your hand.

Re: [H] Video card question

[DHSinclair]

j.,
Yes, I know this. I remember when AMD bought ATI.
Duncan

At 10:07 11/20/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Stan is taking about AMD/ATI's video cards I assume. AMD now owns (and so 
far is ruining) ATI.


DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
I do so get your focus. But, I have moved to Intel C2D, right or wrong 
for my updates/upgrades.  I will just have to deal with stuff I miss 
because of this decision. ATM, Intel represents a larger choice than AMD 
does.  Yes, I do so want AMD to keep on trucking!  Intel needs all the 
competition they can get. I have zero bad comments about any AMD cpu I 
have ever used in the last 10 years.  I still use two of them ATM, and 
both run just like torpedoes; hot-straight-normal ('hot' being a relative 
term, LOL!).
It is still all good right now. I will look at the ATI video cards in any 
case.

Best,
Duncan
At 16:38 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally 
speaking, I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their current 
4850 using Catalyst drivers going way back with zero issues.

Re: [H] Video card question

[maccrawj]

Stan is taking about AMD/ATI's video cards I assume. AMD now owns (and so far is 
ruining) ATI.


DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
I do so get your focus. But, I have moved to Intel C2D, right or wrong 
for my updates/upgrades.  I will just have to deal with stuff I miss 
because of this decision. ATM, Intel represents a larger choice than AMD 
does.  Yes, I do so want AMD to keep on trucking!  Intel needs all the 
competition they can get. I have zero bad comments about any AMD cpu I 
have ever used in the last 10 years.  I still use two of them ATM, and 
both run just like torpedoes; hot-straight-normal ('hot' being a 
relative term, LOL!).
It is still all good right now. I will look at the ATI video cards in 
any case.

Best,
Duncan

At 16:38 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally 
speaking, I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their 
current 4850 using Catalyst drivers going way back with zero issues. 

Re: [H] Video card question

[DHSinclair]

Stan,
Yes, the old G200 is happily doing video duties on a new C2D 
install.  Surprised I am  Still.

LOL!
I am very much in the "run-whatcha-brung" crowd.  Perhaps this confused my 
earlier questions. I do apologize. I really meant no disrespect. I was just 
asking questions. And, searching for possibilities. Nothing more.  I do 
know how many generations behind I am.  Come January, I move backward One 
more.  Such is life.


Trust me; when I do start a "bomber-build" I will consult the collective 
1st. However, by that time, I will be running some sort of baseline 
hdw.  The questions will be very focused. I do not believe I am there yet.


I know that the collective has the answers; I just ask in my odd 
way. :)

Best,
Duncan

At 18:18 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
A Matrox G200 running on a C2D box with W2K. Now that's what I call, "best 
bang for the buck". I'm very impressed!



DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
You have not reason to apologize. Really!
I recall your focus. And, I like your focus. I read. I decide. I do.
I have been an nVidia fan for years, but, I have lost focus. Obviosly!
New stuff to learn.
No harm. No foul.

The new toy is now up and running w2k. I will probably snag your 
suggestion just for a start. If nothing else, the card will become my 
"when all else fails this video card works!"  At least it will be some 
generations above my old Matrox cards! LOL!

I have zero experience with anything newer that a PCI or AGP slot!
Yes, painful, but true!
But, the damn new machine is running well with a PCI Matrox G200!  Damn!
Best,
Duncan

At 17:44 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
Sorry I went off on a tangent, I just meant to say that nVidia makes 
fine video cards as well as AMD.



DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
I do so get your focus. But, I have moved to Intel C2D, right or wrong 
for my updates/upgrades.  I will just have to deal with stuff I miss 
because of this decision. ATM, Intel represents a larger choice than 
AMD does.  Yes, I do so want AMD to keep on trucking!
Intel needs all the competition they can get. I have zero bad comments 
about any AMD cpu I have ever used in the last 10 years.  I still use 
two of them ATM, and both run just like torpedoes; hot-straight-normal 
('hot' being a relative term, LOL!).
It is still all good right now. I will look at the ATI video cards in 
any case.

Best,
Duncan

At 16:38 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally 
speaking, I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their 
current 4850 using Catalyst drivers going way back with zero issues. 
In December AMD is introducing a fascinating new mainstream feature 
called, "Stream computing" in version 8.12 which more or less turns 
your video card somewhat into a parallel processing super computer. 
That MSI card only has 80 streaming processors but is still (at least 
for some apps) considerably more powerful than your core 2 duo. nVidia 
also does this with CUDA and it should be interesting to see where 
this leads in the months and years ahead. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is one stream 
computing app I've been using for many months now and its way more 
powerful than the CPU version. Good Luck!



DHSinclair wrote:

j.,
Yes, thank you. I do understand. I do know that I will be doing your 
'It's simple' kind of test. I do have to test the waters and form my 
own opinion.  Yes, most is truly better than my very old Matrox 
cards. I do accept this. I do know their limitations. But, in a 
pinch, they still light up and allow most basic setup functions 
(which is what I use them for).  I do not have any new technology 
spares lying around anymore. I am now brand new to the new PCI interfaces.

Ouch! New lump on head!! LOL!
Best,
Duncan

At 11:48 11/19/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Mis-quotes of how bad ATI's driver issues are starting to wear thin. 
Both companies have issues that arise, generally with AGP video 
support or specific games, then maybe something else like general stability.


The driver package is the same for the entire product line, true 
also with Nvidia.


It's simple: You buy, try, scrutinize, & return within 30 days if 
there's trouble. Anything has to be better than old Matrox cards, as 
good as they were in their day and at $30 it could cost a lot more to try.




DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
Well, yes and no. Yes, I have a new/replacement PC built; a 
C2D/P45/DDR3 that is just missing a video card.  I do have 3 PCI 
cards that I can try, but I have to take another PC down to try. 
ATM, my spare G200-PCI may be bad. I will confirm this tonight.
And, no, you missed nothing. I did appreciate the suggestion and 
the link to the Anandtech review. I may have to re-read the review. 
Perhaps I missed something. I just was not impressed with the video 
card's power usage, resources, and the driver (ATI) issues.
However, as a first time try with a PCI-e card, the price and 
features are appealing.
I have listened to the collective banter ATI vs

Re: [H] Video card question

[Al]

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:07:26 -0500
DHSinclair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> new machine is running well with a PCI Matrox G200!  Damn!

> >>>For accelerated video, you're probably write but I'd be suspect 
> >>>just based on how low the price is.
That's twelve quotes :)

Duncan,
Email me your address, I'll send you the MSI card mentioned earlier in
this thread.  And thanks for the donation of stuff to the Habitat for
Humanities project.

best,
al
> >>

-- 
Al 

"The Space Elevator will be built about 50 years after everyone stops laughing" 
-- Sir Arthur C. Clarke 

Re: [H] Video card question

[Stan Zaske]

A Matrox G200 running on a C2D box with W2K. Now that's what I call, 
"best bang for the buck". I'm very impressed!



DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
You have not reason to apologize. Really!
I recall your focus. And, I like your focus. I read. I decide. I do.
I have been an nVidia fan for years, but, I have lost focus. Obviosly!
New stuff to learn.
No harm. No foul.

The new toy is now up and running w2k. I will probably snag your 
suggestion just for a start. If nothing else, the card will become my 
"when all else fails this video card works!"  At least it will be some 
generations above my old Matrox cards! LOL!
I have zero experience with anything newer that a PCI or AGP slot!  
Yes, painful, but true!

But, the damn new machine is running well with a PCI Matrox G200!  Damn!
Best,
Duncan

At 17:44 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
Sorry I went off on a tangent, I just meant to say that nVidia makes 
fine video cards as well as AMD.



DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
I do so get your focus. But, I have moved to Intel C2D, right or 
wrong for my updates/upgrades.  I will just have to deal with stuff 
I miss because of this decision. ATM, Intel represents a larger 
choice than AMD does.  Yes, I do so want AMD to keep on trucking!  
Intel needs all the competition they can get. I have zero bad 
comments about any AMD cpu I have ever used in the last 10 years.  I 
still use two of them ATM, and both run just like torpedoes; 
hot-straight-normal ('hot' being a relative term, LOL!).
It is still all good right now. I will look at the ATI video cards 
in any case.

Best,
Duncan

At 16:38 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally 
speaking, I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their 
current 4850 using Catalyst drivers going way back with zero 
issues. In December AMD is introducing a fascinating new mainstream 
feature called, "Stream computing" in version 8.12 which more or 
less turns your video card somewhat into a parallel processing 
super computer. That MSI card only has 80 streaming processors but 
is still (at least for some apps) considerably more powerful than 
your core 2 duo. nVidia also does this with CUDA and it should be 
interesting to see where this leads in the months and years ahead. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is one stream computing app I've been using for many 
months now and its way more powerful than the CPU version. Good Luck!



DHSinclair wrote:

j.,
Yes, thank you. I do understand. I do know that I will be doing 
your 'It's simple' kind of test. I do have to test the waters and 
form my own opinion.  Yes, most is truly better than my very old 
Matrox cards. I do accept this. I do know their limitations. But, 
in a pinch, they still light up and allow most basic setup 
functions (which is what I use them for).  I do not have any new 
technology spares lying around anymore. I am now brand new to the 
new PCI interfaces.

Ouch! New lump on head!! LOL!
Best,
Duncan

At 11:48 11/19/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Mis-quotes of how bad ATI's driver issues are starting to wear 
thin. Both companies have issues that arise, generally with AGP 
video support or specific games, then maybe something else like 
general stability.


The driver package is the same for the entire product line, true 
also with Nvidia.


It's simple: You buy, try, scrutinize, & return within 30 days if 
there's trouble. Anything has to be better than old Matrox cards, 
as good as they were in their day and at $30 it could cost a lot 
more to try.




DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
Well, yes and no. Yes, I have a new/replacement PC built; a 
C2D/P45/DDR3 that is just missing a video card.  I do have 3 PCI 
cards that I can try, but I have to take another PC down to try. 
ATM, my spare G200-PCI may be bad. I will confirm this tonight.
And, no, you missed nothing. I did appreciate the suggestion and 
the link to the Anandtech review. I may have to re-read the 
review. Perhaps I missed something. I just was not impressed 
with the video card's power usage, resources, and the driver 
(ATI) issues.
However, as a first time try with a PCI-e card, the price and 
features are appealing.
I have listened to the collective banter ATI vs. nVidia through 
the last 3 series of video cards. Sorry, I remain hopelessly 
confused still. And, now I have to learn/deal with a brand new 
card interface also.

My apologies.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:55 11/18/2008 -0600, you wrote:
quote: But, I have this brandy, spanking, new set of toys that 
need a video card just to see if it even works.. :)


Did I misunderstand something?

DHSinclair wrote:

J/Stan,
Hey! Hey!  It is a Guinea Pig; not a hamster. Yes, I may be 1 
or 2 generations behind. I use AMD Barton 2500+'s, an AMD 
TBird 1400M, and some Intel P3's. Most of my video cards are 
nVidia GeForce 4's or nVidia FX5500's. Yes, not top drawer, 
but it all seems to do OK for my needs. I am not into PC-based 
HD video. I do not even own a wide-screen flat panel monitor 

Re: [H] Video card question

[DHSinclair]

Stan,
You have not reason to apologize. Really!
I recall your focus. And, I like your focus. I read. I decide. I do.
I have been an nVidia fan for years, but, I have lost focus. Obviosly!
New stuff to learn.
No harm. No foul.

The new toy is now up and running w2k. I will probably snag your suggestion 
just for a start. If nothing else, the card will become my "when all else 
fails this video card works!"  At least it will be some generations above 
my old Matrox cards! LOL!
I have zero experience with anything newer that a PCI or AGP slot!  Yes, 
painful, but true!

But, the damn new machine is running well with a PCI Matrox G200!  Damn!
Best,
Duncan

At 17:44 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
Sorry I went off on a tangent, I just meant to say that nVidia makes fine 
video cards as well as AMD.



DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
I do so get your focus. But, I have moved to Intel C2D, right or wrong 
for my updates/upgrades.  I will just have to deal with stuff I miss 
because of this decision. ATM, Intel represents a larger choice than AMD 
does.  Yes, I do so want AMD to keep on trucking!  Intel needs all the 
competition they can get. I have zero bad comments about any AMD cpu I 
have ever used in the last 10 years.  I still use two of them ATM, and 
both run just like torpedoes; hot-straight-normal ('hot' being a relative 
term, LOL!).
It is still all good right now. I will look at the ATI video cards in any 
case.

Best,
Duncan

At 16:38 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally 
speaking, I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their current 
4850 using Catalyst drivers going way back with zero issues. In December 
AMD is introducing a fascinating new mainstream feature called, "Stream 
computing" in version 8.12 which more or less turns your video card 
somewhat into a parallel processing super computer. That MSI card only 
has 80 streaming processors but is still (at least for some apps) 
considerably more powerful than your core 2 duo. nVidia also does this 
with CUDA and it should be interesting to see where this leads in the 
months and years ahead. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is one stream computing app I've 
been using for many months now and its way more powerful than the CPU 
version. Good Luck!



DHSinclair wrote:

j.,
Yes, thank you. I do understand. I do know that I will be doing your 
'It's simple' kind of test. I do have to test the waters and form my 
own opinion.  Yes, most is truly better than my very old Matrox cards. 
I do accept this. I do know their limitations. But, in a pinch, they 
still light up and allow most basic setup functions (which is what I 
use them for).  I do not have any new technology spares lying around 
anymore. I am now brand new to the new PCI interfaces.

Ouch! New lump on head!! LOL!
Best,
Duncan

At 11:48 11/19/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Mis-quotes of how bad ATI's driver issues are starting to wear thin. 
Both companies have issues that arise, generally with AGP video 
support or specific games, then maybe something else like general stability.


The driver package is the same for the entire product line, true also 
with Nvidia.


It's simple: You buy, try, scrutinize, & return within 30 days if 
there's trouble. Anything has to be better than old Matrox cards, as 
good as they were in their day and at $30 it could cost a lot more to try.




DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
Well, yes and no. Yes, I have a new/replacement PC built; a 
C2D/P45/DDR3 that is just missing a video card.  I do have 3 PCI 
cards that I can try, but I have to take another PC down to try. ATM, 
my spare G200-PCI may be bad. I will confirm this tonight.
And, no, you missed nothing. I did appreciate the suggestion and the 
link to the Anandtech review. I may have to re-read the review. 
Perhaps I missed something. I just was not impressed with the video 
card's power usage, resources, and the driver (ATI) issues.
However, as a first time try with a PCI-e card, the price and 
features are appealing.
I have listened to the collective banter ATI vs. nVidia through the 
last 3 series of video cards. Sorry, I remain hopelessly confused 
still. And, now I have to learn/deal with a brand new card interface also.

My apologies.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:55 11/18/2008 -0600, you wrote:
quote: But, I have this brandy, spanking, new set of toys that need 
a video card just to see if it even works.. :)


Did I misunderstand something?

DHSinclair wrote:

J/Stan,
Hey! Hey!  It is a Guinea Pig; not a hamster. Yes, I may be 1 or 2 
generations behind. I use AMD Barton 2500+'s, an AMD TBird 1400M, 
and some Intel P3's. Most of my video cards are nVidia GeForce 4's 
or nVidia FX5500's. Yes, not top drawer, but it all seems to do OK 
for my needs. I am not into PC-based HD video. I do not even own a 
wide-screen flat panel monitor yet.  Sheesh!

Perhaps it is time to banish myself from this collective! LOL!

I did read the Anandtech review of the card Stan suggested. Whi

Re: [H] Video card question

[Stan Zaske]

Sorry I went off on a tangent, I just meant to say that nVidia makes 
fine video cards as well as AMD.



DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
I do so get your focus. But, I have moved to Intel C2D, right or wrong 
for my updates/upgrades.  I will just have to deal with stuff I miss 
because of this decision. ATM, Intel represents a larger choice than 
AMD does.  Yes, I do so want AMD to keep on trucking!  Intel needs all 
the competition they can get. I have zero bad comments about any AMD 
cpu I have ever used in the last 10 years.  I still use two of them 
ATM, and both run just like torpedoes; hot-straight-normal ('hot' 
being a relative term, LOL!).
It is still all good right now. I will look at the ATI video cards in 
any case.

Best,
Duncan

At 16:38 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally 
speaking, I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their 
current 4850 using Catalyst drivers going way back with zero issues. 
In December AMD is introducing a fascinating new mainstream feature 
called, "Stream computing" in version 8.12 which more or less turns 
your video card somewhat into a parallel processing super computer. 
That MSI card only has 80 streaming processors but is still (at least 
for some apps) considerably more powerful than your core 2 duo. 
nVidia also does this with CUDA and it should be interesting to see 
where this leads in the months and years ahead. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is one 
stream computing app I've been using for many months now and its way 
more powerful than the CPU version. Good Luck!



DHSinclair wrote:

j.,
Yes, thank you. I do understand. I do know that I will be doing your 
'It's simple' kind of test. I do have to test the waters and form my 
own opinion.  Yes, most is truly better than my very old Matrox 
cards. I do accept this. I do know their limitations. But, in a 
pinch, they still light up and allow most basic setup functions 
(which is what I use them for).  I do not have any new technology 
spares lying around anymore. I am now brand new to the new PCI 
interfaces.

Ouch! New lump on head!! LOL!
Best,
Duncan

At 11:48 11/19/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Mis-quotes of how bad ATI's driver issues are starting to wear 
thin. Both companies have issues that arise, generally with AGP 
video support or specific games, then maybe something else like 
general stability.


The driver package is the same for the entire product line, true 
also with Nvidia.


It's simple: You buy, try, scrutinize, & return within 30 days if 
there's trouble. Anything has to be better than old Matrox cards, 
as good as they were in their day and at $30 it could cost a lot 
more to try.




DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
Well, yes and no. Yes, I have a new/replacement PC built; a 
C2D/P45/DDR3 that is just missing a video card.  I do have 3 PCI 
cards that I can try, but I have to take another PC down to try. 
ATM, my spare G200-PCI may be bad. I will confirm this tonight.
And, no, you missed nothing. I did appreciate the suggestion and 
the link to the Anandtech review. I may have to re-read the 
review. Perhaps I missed something. I just was not impressed with 
the video card's power usage, resources, and the driver (ATI) issues.
However, as a first time try with a PCI-e card, the price and 
features are appealing.
I have listened to the collective banter ATI vs. nVidia through 
the last 3 series of video cards. Sorry, I remain hopelessly 
confused still. And, now I have to learn/deal with a brand new 
card interface also.

My apologies.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:55 11/18/2008 -0600, you wrote:
quote: But, I have this brandy, spanking, new set of toys that 
need a video card just to see if it even works.. :)


Did I misunderstand something?

DHSinclair wrote:

J/Stan,
Hey! Hey!  It is a Guinea Pig; not a hamster. Yes, I may be 1 or 
2 generations behind. I use AMD Barton 2500+'s, an AMD TBird 
1400M, and some Intel P3's. Most of my video cards are nVidia 
GeForce 4's or nVidia FX5500's. Yes, not top drawer, but it all 
seems to do OK for my needs. I am not into PC-based HD video. I 
do not even own a wide-screen flat panel monitor yet.  Sheesh!  
Perhaps it is time to banish myself from this collective! LOL!


I did read the Anandtech review of the card Stan suggested. 
While it does seem to work OK, it does seem to have several 
power and resource negatives. They also mentioned driver 
problems with this card also. I have not been an ATI user 
either. The only ATI video anything I have is the on-board 3D 
Rage IIC PCI chip in the server-works Intel m/b.
And, it is beginning to show signs of serious age and some video 
degradation. (This is why I still hoard old PCI Matrox cards)! 
But, the server is not the issue at hand.  I am looking for 
mid-level PCI-X cards now.

When I rebuild my gaming machine, we will talk top drawer cards!

Thank you for the suggestion. I will re-read the review. Perhaps 
I am just too new to this new video revolution.

Best,

Re: [H] Video card question

[DHSinclair]

Stan,
I do so get your focus. But, I have moved to Intel C2D, right or wrong for 
my updates/upgrades.  I will just have to deal with stuff I miss because of 
this decision. ATM, Intel represents a larger choice than AMD does.  Yes, I 
do so want AMD to keep on trucking!  Intel needs all the competition they 
can get. I have zero bad comments about any AMD cpu I have ever used in the 
last 10 years.  I still use two of them ATM, and both run just like 
torpedoes; hot-straight-normal ('hot' being a relative term, LOL!).

It is still all good right now. I will look at the ATI video cards in any case.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:38 11/19/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally speaking, 
I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their current 4850 using 
Catalyst drivers going way back with zero issues. In December AMD is 
introducing a fascinating new mainstream feature called, "Stream 
computing" in version 8.12 which more or less turns your video card 
somewhat into a parallel processing super computer. That MSI card only has 
80 streaming processors but is still (at least for some apps) considerably 
more powerful than your core 2 duo. nVidia also does this with CUDA and it 
should be interesting to see where this leads in the months and years 
ahead. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is one stream computing app I've been using for many 
months now and its way more powerful than the CPU version. Good Luck!



DHSinclair wrote:

j.,
Yes, thank you. I do understand. I do know that I will be doing your 
'It's simple' kind of test. I do have to test the waters and form my own 
opinion.  Yes, most is truly better than my very old Matrox cards. I do 
accept this. I do know their limitations. But, in a pinch, they still 
light up and allow most basic setup functions (which is what I use them 
for).  I do not have any new technology spares lying around anymore. I am 
now brand new to the new PCI interfaces.

Ouch! New lump on head!! LOL!
Best,
Duncan

At 11:48 11/19/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Mis-quotes of how bad ATI's driver issues are starting to wear thin. 
Both companies have issues that arise, generally with AGP video support 
or specific games, then maybe something else like general stability.


The driver package is the same for the entire product line, true also 
with Nvidia.


It's simple: You buy, try, scrutinize, & return within 30 days if 
there's trouble. Anything has to be better than old Matrox cards, as 
good as they were in their day and at $30 it could cost a lot more to try.




DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
Well, yes and no. Yes, I have a new/replacement PC built; a 
C2D/P45/DDR3 that is just missing a video card.  I do have 3 PCI cards 
that I can try, but I have to take another PC down to try. ATM, my 
spare G200-PCI may be bad. I will confirm this tonight.
And, no, you missed nothing. I did appreciate the suggestion and the 
link to the Anandtech review. I may have to re-read the review. Perhaps 
I missed something. I just was not impressed with the video card's 
power usage, resources, and the driver (ATI) issues.
However, as a first time try with a PCI-e card, the price and features 
are appealing.
I have listened to the collective banter ATI vs. nVidia through the 
last 3 series of video cards. Sorry, I remain hopelessly confused 
still. And, now I have to learn/deal with a brand new card interface also.

My apologies.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:55 11/18/2008 -0600, you wrote:
quote: But, I have this brandy, spanking, new set of toys that need a 
video card just to see if it even works.. :)


Did I misunderstand something?

DHSinclair wrote:

J/Stan,
Hey! Hey!  It is a Guinea Pig; not a hamster. Yes, I may be 1 or 2 
generations behind. I use AMD Barton 2500+'s, an AMD TBird 1400M, and 
some Intel P3's. Most of my video cards are nVidia GeForce 4's or 
nVidia FX5500's. Yes, not top drawer, but it all seems to do OK for 
my needs. I am not into PC-based HD video. I do not even own a 
wide-screen flat panel monitor yet.  Sheesh!  Perhaps it is time to 
banish myself from this collective! LOL!


I did read the Anandtech review of the card Stan suggested. While it 
does seem to work OK, it does seem to have several power and resource 
negatives. They also mentioned driver problems with this card also. I 
have not been an ATI user either. The only ATI video anything I have 
is the on-board 3D Rage IIC PCI chip in the server-works Intel m/b.
And, it is beginning to show signs of serious age and some video 
degradation. (This is why I still hoard old PCI Matrox cards)! But, 
the server is not the issue at hand.  I am looking for mid-level 
PCI-X cards now.

When I rebuild my gaming machine, we will talk top drawer cards!

Thank you for the suggestion. I will re-read the review. Perhaps I am 
just too new to this new video revolution.

Best,
Duncan



At 01:44 11/18/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Given what he's been running on, I'm sure a hamster on a wheel is 
faster! ;)


A re

Re: [H] Video card question

[Stan Zaske]

I agree that either companies products would be fine. Personally 
speaking, I've upgraded my gaming box from an AMD 3850 to their current 
4850 using Catalyst drivers going way back with zero issues. In December 
AMD is introducing a fascinating new mainstream feature called, "Stream 
computing" in version 8.12 which more or less turns your video card 
somewhat into a parallel processing super computer. That MSI card only 
has 80 streaming processors but is still (at least for some apps) 
considerably more powerful than your core 2 duo. nVidia also does this 
with CUDA and it should be interesting to see where this leads in the 
months and years ahead. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is one stream computing app I've 
been using for many months now and its way more powerful than the CPU 
version. Good Luck!



DHSinclair wrote:

j.,
Yes, thank you. I do understand. I do know that I will be doing your 
'It's simple' kind of test. I do have to test the waters and form my 
own opinion.  Yes, most is truly better than my very old Matrox cards. 
I do accept this. I do know their limitations. But, in a pinch, they 
still light up and allow most basic setup functions (which is what I 
use them for).  I do not have any new technology spares lying around 
anymore. I am now brand new to the new PCI interfaces.

Ouch! New lump on head!! LOL!
Best,
Duncan

At 11:48 11/19/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Mis-quotes of how bad ATI's driver issues are starting to wear thin. 
Both companies have issues that arise, generally with AGP video 
support or specific games, then maybe something else like general 
stability.


The driver package is the same for the entire product line, true also 
with Nvidia.


It's simple: You buy, try, scrutinize, & return within 30 days if 
there's trouble. Anything has to be better than old Matrox cards, as 
good as they were in their day and at $30 it could cost a lot more to 
try.




DHSinclair wrote:

Stan,
Well, yes and no. Yes, I have a new/replacement PC built; a 
C2D/P45/DDR3 that is just missing a video card.  I do have 3 PCI 
cards that I can try, but I have to take another PC down to try. 
ATM, my spare G200-PCI may be bad. I will confirm this tonight.
And, no, you missed nothing. I did appreciate the suggestion and the 
link to the Anandtech review. I may have to re-read the review. 
Perhaps I missed something. I just was not impressed with the video 
card's power usage, resources, and the driver (ATI) issues.  
However, as a first time try with a PCI-e card, the price and 
features are appealing.
I have listened to the collective banter ATI vs. nVidia through the 
last 3 series of video cards. Sorry, I remain hopelessly confused 
still. And, now I have to learn/deal with a brand new card interface 
also.

My apologies.
Best,
Duncan

At 16:55 11/18/2008 -0600, you wrote:
quote: But, I have this brandy, spanking, new set of toys that need 
a video card just to see if it even works.. :)


Did I misunderstand something?

DHSinclair wrote:

J/Stan,
Hey! Hey!  It is a Guinea Pig; not a hamster. Yes, I may be 1 or 2 
generations behind. I use AMD Barton 2500+'s, an AMD TBird 1400M, 
and some Intel P3's. Most of my video cards are nVidia GeForce 4's 
or nVidia FX5500's. Yes, not top drawer, but it all seems to do OK 
for my needs. I am not into PC-based HD video. I do not even own a 
wide-screen flat panel monitor yet.  Sheesh!  Perhaps it is time 
to banish myself from this collective! LOL!


I did read the Anandtech review of the card Stan suggested. While 
it does seem to work OK, it does seem to have several power and 
resource negatives. They also mentioned driver problems with this 
card also. I have not been an ATI user either. The only ATI video 
anything I have is the on-board 3D Rage IIC PCI chip in the 
server-works Intel m/b.
And, it is beginning to show signs of serious age and some video 
degradation. (This is why I still hoard old PCI Matrox cards)! 
But, the server is not the issue at hand.  I am looking for 
mid-level PCI-X cards now.

When I rebuild my gaming machine, we will talk top drawer cards!

Thank you for the suggestion. I will re-read the review. Perhaps I 
am just too new to this new video revolution.

Best,
Duncan



At 01:44 11/18/2008 -0800, you wrote:
Given what he's been running on, I'm sure a hamster on a wheel is 
faster! ;)


A review on Anandtech for it:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3444

Stan Zaske wrote:
Duncan just wanted to have a video card that was competent for 
web based video and this card is obviously overkill for that but 
the price is very reasonable. It should even be powerful enough 
for some casual gaming at low resolutions.


maccrawj wrote:
Gotta love how Newegg's specs are always flat out wrong or have 
the wrong definition.


The GPU is HD4350 but that's the card model, not the actual 
GPU's model, LOL!


For accelerated video, you're probably write but I'd be suspect 
just based on how low the price is.