Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] try 36! -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hope ManiMod, SourceMM, SourceMod, and Eventscripts all go on that allowed list right off the bat. On 4/27/07, Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you write a plugin that runs client commands and you believe you have a command that won't let you exploit a users game process (i.e rebind keys, kills them, etc) then mail me (offlist) the details and we can talk about adding it to the allowed list. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] It was bloody ManiMod that was the main cause of the issue in the first place /sigh On 5/4/07, Daniel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Hope ManiMod, SourceMM, SourceMod, and Eventscripts all go on that allowed list right off the bat. On 4/27/07, Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you write a plugin that runs client commands and you believe you have a command that won't let you exploit a users game process (i.e rebind keys, kills them, etc) then mail me (offlist) the details and we can talk about adding it to the allowed list. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
The question is, are you willing to take responsibility for security breaches on client machines as a result of executable code you have sent those machines via the Source network system? The simplest example would be to point the internal browser at a site which contains IE exploits, there are many far more complicated exploit vectors also. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen. What is going on here? It seems that Valve thinks that all the people that operate servers are clueless children that can not be trusted with anything. If players do not like the way they are treated on a server, they can leave. My server relies on plugins that are able to execute client commands, if that is taken away I am done running a server for Valve. Alfred, we are still waiting for an explanation of the reason behind this. What are you trying to stop exactly that is so critical that you are willing to ruin so many things that people have worked long and hard on? -YMAC ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
First of all it is the users responsibility to protect themselves from such attacks seeing as they can come from anywhere. The MOTD can point to a malicious website... what does that have to do with client exec? Secondly this is a pattern by Valve. They add these great features that break mods and plugins without any thought or care of how it will affect the community. Seeing as SourceMod is right around the corner and it will circumvent the need for executing client commands, why can they not wait until those projects flesh out first? Alfred, how much help are you providing to Bailoplan et. all in getting SourceMod complete and tested? This is a critical evolution that is going to take time for things to be ported. Why not wait until these things are off the ground to remove client exec? Is there some massive rash of abuse that I have not heard of? What is the rush? -YMAC On 5/2/07 5:36 AM, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, are you willing to take responsibility for security breaches on client machines as a result of executable code you have sent those machines via the Source network system? The simplest example would be to point the internal browser at a site which contains IE exploits, there are many far more complicated exploit vectors also. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen. What is going on here? It seems that Valve thinks that all the people that operate servers are clueless children that can not be trusted with anything. If players do not like the way they are treated on a server, they can leave. My server relies on plugins that are able to execute client commands, if that is taken away I am done running a server for Valve. Alfred, we are still waiting for an explanation of the reason behind this. What are you trying to stop exactly that is so critical that you are willing to ruin so many things that people have worked long and hard on? -YMAC ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I can think of only 2 major plugin functions affected by this. One is server forwarding. I've heard from people operating 50 servers that all forward to one, and I've joined many of these types of servers, so I'm not unhappy about this change at all. The other is changing players' rates. Since those can now be limited by the new cvars (which Valve provided in response to the original restrict server commands outcry) there is no problem there either. I can't think of another valid reason to use a client exec from a plugin. I don't understand why there is so much outcry. What client commands (other than those listed above) are you execing on players that you miss so much with the restrictions? Grant (L. Duke) On 5/2/07, Yo Mama's A Chump [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all it is the users responsibility to protect themselves from such attacks seeing as they can come from anywhere. The MOTD can point to a malicious website... what does that have to do with client exec? Secondly this is a pattern by Valve. They add these great features that break mods and plugins without any thought or care of how it will affect the community. Seeing as SourceMod is right around the corner and it will circumvent the need for executing client commands, why can they not wait until those projects flesh out first? Alfred, how much help are you providing to Bailoplan et. all in getting SourceMod complete and tested? This is a critical evolution that is going to take time for things to be ported. Why not wait until these things are off the ground to remove client exec? Is there some massive rash of abuse that I have not heard of? What is the rush? -YMAC On 5/2/07 5:36 AM, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, are you willing to take responsibility for security breaches on client machines as a result of executable code you have sent those machines via the Source network system? The simplest example would be to point the internal browser at a site which contains IE exploits, there are many far more complicated exploit vectors also. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen. What is going on here? It seems that Valve thinks that all the people that operate servers are clueless children that can not be trusted with anything. If players do not like the way they are treated on a server, they can leave. My server relies on plugins that are able to execute client commands, if that is taken away I am done running a server for Valve. Alfred, we are still waiting for an explanation of the reason behind this. What are you trying to stop exactly that is so critical that you are willing to ruin so many things that people have worked long and hard on? -YMAC ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] The alias command, however there's no chance on valve unlocking that due to it's potentially unsafe nature. This is why it was ideal to have the end user be able to choose. There's a huge difference between enforcing a certain cvar and policing every certain cvar at an interval. Not only in safety, also in efficiency and performance. On top of that, it's entirely impossible to do anything at all about concommands. So things like spike or snd_restart will be impossible to do anything against. On 5/2/07, LDuke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I can think of only 2 major plugin functions affected by this. One is server forwarding. I've heard from people operating 50 servers that all forward to one, and I've joined many of these types of servers, so I'm not unhappy about this change at all. The other is changing players' rates. Since those can now be limited by the new cvars (which Valve provided in response to the original restrict server commands outcry) there is no problem there either. I can't think of another valid reason to use a client exec from a plugin. I don't understand why there is so much outcry. What client commands (other than those listed above) are you execing on players that you miss so much with the restrictions? Grant (L. Duke) On 5/2/07, Yo Mama's A Chump [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all it is the users responsibility to protect themselves from such attacks seeing as they can come from anywhere. The MOTD can point to a malicious website... what does that have to do with client exec? Secondly this is a pattern by Valve. They add these great features that break mods and plugins without any thought or care of how it will affect the community. Seeing as SourceMod is right around the corner and it will circumvent the need for executing client commands, why can they not wait until those projects flesh out first? Alfred, how much help are you providing to Bailoplan et. all in getting SourceMod complete and tested? This is a critical evolution that is going to take time for things to be ported. Why not wait until these things are off the ground to remove client exec? Is there some massive rash of abuse that I have not heard of? What is the rush? -YMAC On 5/2/07 5:36 AM, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, are you willing to take responsibility for security breaches on client machines as a result of executable code you have sent those machines via the Source network system? The simplest example would be to point the internal browser at a site which contains IE exploits, there are many far more complicated exploit vectors also. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen. What is going on here? It seems that Valve thinks that all the people that operate servers are clueless children that can not be trusted with anything. If players do not like the way they are treated on a server, they can leave. My server relies on plugins that are able to execute client commands, if that is taken away I am done running a server for Valve. Alfred, we are still waiting for an explanation of the reason behind this. What are you trying to stop exactly that is so critical that you are willing to ruin so many things that people have worked long and hard on? -YMAC ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
LDuke wrote: I can't think of another valid reason to use a client exec from a plugin. I don't understand why there is so much outcry. What client commands (other than those listed above) are you execing on players that you miss so much with the restrictions? Grant (L. Duke) The ability to teamswap would be nice. Cheers, Einar ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Bind s kill LDuke wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I can think of only 2 major plugin functions affected by this. One is server forwarding. I've heard from people operating 50 servers that all forward to one, and I've joined many of these types of servers, so I'm not unhappy about this change at all. The other is changing players' rates. Since those can now be limited by the new cvars (which Valve provided in response to the original restrict server commands outcry) there is no problem there either. I can't think of another valid reason to use a client exec from a plugin. I don't understand why there is so much outcry. What client commands (other than those listed above) are you execing on players that you miss so much with the restrictions? Grant (L. Duke) On 5/2/07, Yo Mama's A Chump [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First of all it is the users responsibility to protect themselves from such attacks seeing as they can come from anywhere. The MOTD can point to a malicious website... what does that have to do with client exec? Secondly this is a pattern by Valve. They add these great features that break mods and plugins without any thought or care of how it will affect the community. Seeing as SourceMod is right around the corner and it will circumvent the need for executing client commands, why can they not wait until those projects flesh out first? Alfred, how much help are you providing to Bailoplan et. all in getting SourceMod complete and tested? This is a critical evolution that is going to take time for things to be ported. Why not wait until these things are off the ground to remove client exec? Is there some massive rash of abuse that I have not heard of? What is the rush? -YMAC On 5/2/07 5:36 AM, James Tucker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question is, are you willing to take responsibility for security breaches on client machines as a result of executable code you have sent those machines via the Source network system? The simplest example would be to point the internal browser at a site which contains IE exploits, there are many far more complicated exploit vectors also. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen. What is going on here? It seems that Valve thinks that all the people that operate servers are clueless children that can not be trusted with anything. If players do not like the way they are treated on a server, they can leave. My server relies on plugins that are able to execute client commands, if that is taken away I am done running a server for Valve. Alfred, we are still waiting for an explanation of the reason behind this. What are you trying to stop exactly that is so critical that you are willing to ruin so many things that people have worked long and hard on? -YMAC ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
I agree with LDuke on this. All these new features and lock-down type changes are all good, however the biggest threat that I see at the moment, is cheating/hacking players. Since the rollout of the Guest Pass system, every single server I join will have at least 1 hacker/cheater on it at some point in the gaming session. I would think that more effort should go into cheat/exploit detection and correction (for which Valve HAVE been addressing - thanks guys), as this problem is what causes a server to go from having 20/20 players for example, to 0/20 players. Regards, Adam. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LDuke Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2007 11:53 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I can think of only 2 major plugin functions affected by this. One is server forwarding. I've heard from people operating 50 servers that all forward to one, and I've joined many of these types of servers, so I'm not unhappy about this change at all. The other is changing players' rates. Since those can now be limited by the new cvars (which Valve provided in response to the original restrict server commands outcry) there is no problem there either. I can't think of another valid reason to use a client exec from a plugin. I don't understand why there is so much outcry. What client commands (other than those listed above) are you execing on players that you miss so much with the restrictions? Grant (L. Duke) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
just about cheating: we got 11 24-slot public servers and have much problems with cheaters the last weeks. hard work for us to be present on all servers. andi -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Adam Sando Gesendet: Donnerstag, 3. Mai 2007 03:34 An: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I agree with LDuke on this. All these new features and lock-down type changes are all good, however the biggest threat that I see at the moment, is cheating/hacking players. Since the rollout of the Guest Pass system, every single server I join will have at least 1 hacker/cheater on it at some point in the gaming session. I would think that more effort should go into cheat/exploit detection and correction (for which Valve HAVE been addressing - thanks guys), as this problem is what causes a server to go from having 20/20 players for example, to 0/20 players. Regards, Adam. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LDuke Sent: Wednesday, 2 May 2007 11:53 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I can think of only 2 major plugin functions affected by this. One is server forwarding. I've heard from people operating 50 servers that all forward to one, and I've joined many of these types of servers, so I'm not unhappy about this change at all. The other is changing players' rates. Since those can now be limited by the new cvars (which Valve provided in response to the original restrict server commands outcry) there is no problem there either. I can't think of another valid reason to use a client exec from a plugin. I don't understand why there is so much outcry. What client commands (other than those listed above) are you execing on players that you miss so much with the restrictions? Grant (L. Duke) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Several convars are already bounded by server variables, if you mail me off list with other convars that need bounding we can investigate adding that. - Alfred Wim Barelds wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] So instead of fixing a problem, you're going to just hide from it? Can't that exact same 'exploit' still be used to triiger fps_max 2 on clients? Can't that exact same exploit still trigger client commands? No it's not acceptable to check cvars and kick offenders, for one because people will change variables after changign the server, and checking the value every few seconds is neither efficient, nor save, nor should it be needed. Players should not be required to know exactly which cvars we block, sure some of them have an exploit nature, but some are also blocked since they should have no place in competitive play. A player simply executing his config, or setting a competition blocked cvar to something else should not be kicked from the server. He should be prevented from changing said cvar. zBlock specifically supported the restrict_server_commands convariable as quite simply it's only fair. zBlock however can not function *properly*without any abbility of preventive protection. As a final question, in previous emails you've stated that you would also provide an interface that would not only allow plugins to query client variables, but also to effectively restrict certain convariables to set values, which would then not be saved into the config. While the need for this has been minor with the abbility of triggering client commands, it would certainly be something that's going to be needed if VALVe indeed intends to keep the abbility to trigger client commands 'removed'. Assuming that it will indeed remain removed, are there any plans to follow up on this instead (ofcourse preferably before this gets out of beta)? On 4/27/07, Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The convar was removed as we had no effective way to otherwise protect it. Large numbers of servers were using exploits to set the value of this cvar without the users permission. If you write a plugin that runs client commands and you believe you have a command that won't let you exploit a users game process (i.e rebind keys, kills them, etc) then mail me (offlist) the details and we can talk about adding it to the allowed list. Zblock in particular can still function perfectly, they can use the API we specially added for them to query CVAR values and then kick users with cvars outside of their configuration ranges. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan E Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:45 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) Yes, I commend Valve for getting betas out now instead of having things come out broken. I've already tried to help by letting Alfred know about some issues with the new release. I'm just curious as to what the missing cl_restrict... is about. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Explain how? You can't even use echo... James Gray wrote: This quite honestly does not affect many plugins at all...this move is much better in the long run for Source. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is why I never included such a feature into zblock :/ FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE prevented server running command: alias No server plugins cant still execute commands on clients... Atleast, not properly. To execute a command on a client, that command requires the FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE flag, it's very rare for cvars to have this, one of the few examples that does have this is the play console command (which plays an audio file). On 4/27/07, Cc2iscooL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] People kept finding ways to get people to disable it without them actually wanting to change it themselves, through the MOTD I believe was the most recent one. They probably just got tired of people exploiting it, so they decided to hardcode it. Maybe Alfred can shed some light as to the reason, but a lot of things will be different now. Zblock will probably have to just tell the client what to change. Heh. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How does this improve anything at all? The only thing that's changed is removing a perfectly functional feature. How can you honestly consider this a good thing in any way? I could see why they created the need for cl_restrict_server_commands, and hell, I even agreed with them that the cvar was a good thing when they introduced it. This however does not in any way improve security, while it does significantly cripple functionality. On 4/27/07, Joshua Handelsman-Woolf (DogGunn) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Explain how? You can't even use echo... James Gray wrote: This quite honestly does not affect many plugins at all...this move is much better in the long run for Source. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is why I never included such a feature into zblock :/ FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE prevented server running command: alias No server plugins cant still execute commands on clients... Atleast, not properly. To execute a command on a client, that command requires the FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE flag, it's very rare for cvars to have this, one of the few examples that does have this is the play console command (which plays an audio file). On 4/27/07, Cc2iscooL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] People kept finding ways to get people to disable it without them actually wanting to change it themselves, through the MOTD I believe was the most recent one. They probably just got tired of people exploiting it, so they decided to hardcode it. Maybe Alfred can shed some light as to the reason, but a lot of things will be different now. Zblock will probably have to just tell the client what to change. Heh. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Amen. What is going on here? It seems that Valve thinks that all the people that operate servers are clueless children that can not be trusted with anything. If players do not like the way they are treated on a server, they can leave. My server relies on plugins that are able to execute client commands, if that is taken away I am done running a server for Valve. Alfred, we are still waiting for an explanation of the reason behind this. What are you trying to stop exactly that is so critical that you are willing to ruin so many things that people have worked long and hard on? -YMAC -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How does this improve anything at all? The only thing that's changed is removing a perfectly functional feature. How can you honestly consider this a good thing in any way? I could see why they created the need for cl_restrict_server_commands, and hell, I even agreed with them that the cvar was a good thing when they introduced it. This however does not in any way improve security, while it does significantly cripple functionality. On 4/27/07, Joshua Handelsman-Woolf (DogGunn) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Explain how? You can't even use echo... James Gray wrote: This quite honestly does not affect many plugins at all...this move is much better in the long run for Source. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is why I never included such a feature into zblock :/ FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE prevented server running command: alias No server plugins cant still execute commands on clients... Atleast, not properly. To execute a command on a client, that command requires the FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE flag, it's very rare for cvars to have this, one of the few examples that does have this is the play console command (which plays an audio file). On 4/27/07, Cc2iscooL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] People kept finding ways to get people to disable it without them actually wanting to change it themselves, through the MOTD I believe was the most recent one. They probably just got tired of people exploiting it, so they decided to hardcode it. Maybe Alfred can shed some light as to the reason, but a lot of things will be different now. Zblock will probably have to just tell the client what to change. Heh. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:23 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) Amen. What is going on here? It seems that Valve thinks that all the people that operate servers are clueless children that can not be trusted with anything. If players do not like the way they are treated on a server, they can leave. My server relies on plugins that are able to execute client commands, if that is taken away I am done running a server for Valve. Alfred, we are still waiting for an explanation of the reason behind this. What are you trying to stop exactly that is so critical that you are willing to ruin so many things that people have worked long and hard on? -YMAC -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How does this improve anything at all? The only thing that's changed is removing a perfectly functional feature. How can you honestly consider this a good thing in any way? I could see why they created the need for cl_restrict_server_commands, and hell, I even agreed with them that the cvar was a good thing when they introduced it. This however does not in any way improve security, while it does significantly cripple functionality. On 4/27/07, Joshua Handelsman-Woolf (DogGunn) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Explain how? You can't even use echo... James Gray wrote: This quite honestly does not affect many plugins at all...this move is much better in the long run for Source. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is why I never included such a feature into zblock :/ FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE prevented server running command: alias No server plugins cant still execute commands on clients... Atleast, not properly. To execute a command on a client, that command requires the FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE flag, it's very rare for cvars to have this, one of the few examples that does have this is the play console command (which plays an audio file). On 4/27/07, Cc2iscooL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] People kept finding ways to get people to disable it without them actually wanting to change it themselves, through the MOTD I believe was the most recent one. They probably just got tired of people exploiting it, so they decided to hardcode it. Maybe Alfred can shed some light as to the reason, but a lot of things will be different now. Zblock will probably have to just tell the client what to change. Heh. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
My sentiments too Keeper, it's getting to be too much of a struggle keeping our server fun for our regular players. Not everyone wants to play in leagues and matches, but just play to have fun, and Valve is doing their best to spoil this, just because a minority of admins abuse their powers. When we pay for our bandwidth and servers, we should at least be able to run them how we see fit without this constant interference. I don't play CS:S but it's the whingeing mainly from that quarter that's messing it up for HL2DM. Mick - Original Message - From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
I agree, this is where we would intelligently express our findings and opinions so we can perhaps work together and come to an understanding. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Yes, I commend Valve for getting betas out now instead of having things come out broken. I've already tried to help by letting Alfred know about some issues with the new release. I'm just curious as to what the missing cl_restrict... is about. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
I completely agree. Counter Strike is the most popular mod out there. The BIGGEST problem has always been hackers that ruin the fun for the community. They have consistently tried to fix things with VAC, and now the beta helps address another exploit that ruins the fun for other gamers. THEY ARE TRYING! And instead of being stupid little kids jumping the gun...maybe you could help with this beta and provide constructive ideas to help instead of threatening and crying about it. Many people hated market pricing system...Valve gave server admins the ability to modify it. I'm sure if you presented your case in a mature manner...they will offer an alternative to other plugin issues. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
The betas are awesome...nobody is disagreeing with that. The point is that a fairly major feature has been changed...and it wasnt even in the changelog. And then when asked about it, it was like an afterthought Oh yeah...we removed that. Our players just want to have fun and play in a place where all things are equal (no rate hacking or regular hacks etc). They dont care if we have to run commands on them to do that. However now we have completely lost the ability to do certain things. All players see is that us server owners are taking away their fun and complain (and sometimes leave). They dont understand. Valve doesn't pay for servers, we do. MY money is going into keeping valve alive (my running servers lets people buy more games and they then have somewhere to play). Valve needs to realize this. In their Infinite wisdom they forget that without server operators, a mod dies. There have been plenty of mods that have come and gone, and because they only had players (not server operators) behind them, they never took off. We are waiting for valve to reply and tell us WTF is going on...but the lack of a reply is a pretty good indication that they are giving us operators a giant middle finger. HP Keeper wrote: I'm not arguing the beta's. They are a godsend. I too appreciate these. But it's not a single thing that valve has done that has us jumping down Valve's throat. They have a consistent history of fixing things that don't need fixing, while not fixing major bugs. I was all in favor of the cl_restrict... cvar. It does protect us from the kiddies. I hope Alfred will respond at some point on what exactly is the thought on this. Other than The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Or that we live in different timezones and aren't at the keyboard 24/7... Ever think of that? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hell Phoenix Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:20 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The betas are awesome...nobody is disagreeing with that. The point is that a fairly major feature has been changed...and it wasnt even in the changelog. And then when asked about it, it was like an afterthought Oh yeah...we removed that. Our players just want to have fun and play in a place where all things are equal (no rate hacking or regular hacks etc). They dont care if we have to run commands on them to do that. However now we have completely lost the ability to do certain things. All players see is that us server owners are taking away their fun and complain (and sometimes leave). They dont understand. Valve doesn't pay for servers, we do. MY money is going into keeping valve alive (my running servers lets people buy more games and they then have somewhere to play). Valve needs to realize this. In their Infinite wisdom they forget that without server operators, a mod dies. There have been plenty of mods that have come and gone, and because they only had players (not server operators) behind them, they never took off. We are waiting for valve to reply and tell us WTF is going on...but the lack of a reply is a pretty good indication that they are giving us operators a giant middle finger. HP Keeper wrote: I'm not arguing the beta's. They are a godsend. I too appreciate these. But it's not a single thing that valve has done that has us jumping down Valve's throat. They have a consistent history of fixing things that don't need fixing, while not fixing major bugs. I was all in favor of the cl_restrict... cvar. It does protect us from the kiddies. I hope Alfred will respond at some point on what exactly is the thought on this. Other than The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
The convar was removed as we had no effective way to otherwise protect it. Large numbers of servers were using exploits to set the value of this cvar without the users permission. If you write a plugin that runs client commands and you believe you have a command that won't let you exploit a users game process (i.e rebind keys, kills them, etc) then mail me (offlist) the details and we can talk about adding it to the allowed list. Zblock in particular can still function perfectly, they can use the API we specially added for them to query CVAR values and then kick users with cvars outside of their configuration ranges. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan E Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:45 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) Yes, I commend Valve for getting betas out now instead of having things come out broken. I've already tried to help by letting Alfred know about some issues with the new release. I'm just curious as to what the missing cl_restrict... is about. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
I agree:-) Jason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] So instead of fixing a problem, you're going to just hide from it? Can't that exact same 'exploit' still be used to triiger fps_max 2 on clients? Can't that exact same exploit still trigger client commands? No it's not acceptable to check cvars and kick offenders, for one because people will change variables after changign the server, and checking the value every few seconds is neither efficient, nor save, nor should it be needed. Players should not be required to know exactly which cvars we block, sure some of them have an exploit nature, but some are also blocked since they should have no place in competitive play. A player simply executing his config, or setting a competition blocked cvar to something else should not be kicked from the server. He should be prevented from changing said cvar. zBlock specifically supported the restrict_server_commands convariable as quite simply it's only fair. zBlock however can not function *properly*without any abbility of preventive protection. As a final question, in previous emails you've stated that you would also provide an interface that would not only allow plugins to query client variables, but also to effectively restrict certain convariables to set values, which would then not be saved into the config. While the need for this has been minor with the abbility of triggering client commands, it would certainly be something that's going to be needed if VALVe indeed intends to keep the abbility to trigger client commands 'removed'. Assuming that it will indeed remain removed, are there any plans to follow up on this instead (ofcourse preferably before this gets out of beta)? On 4/27/07, Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The convar was removed as we had no effective way to otherwise protect it. Large numbers of servers were using exploits to set the value of this cvar without the users permission. If you write a plugin that runs client commands and you believe you have a command that won't let you exploit a users game process (i.e rebind keys, kills them, etc) then mail me (offlist) the details and we can talk about adding it to the allowed list. Zblock in particular can still function perfectly, they can use the API we specially added for them to query CVAR values and then kick users with cvars outside of their configuration ranges. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan E Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:45 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) Yes, I commend Valve for getting betas out now instead of having things come out broken. I've already tried to help by letting Alfred know about some issues with the new release. I'm just curious as to what the missing cl_restrict... is about. Dan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:24 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) I'm really going to have to disagree with you on this one. We all jumped up and down and said we needed betas before releases and here we are with a beta to test. Change is a necessary evil and most of the people here seem to have made assumptions with the information that was provided. The cl_restrict may have been removed, but Alfred has yet to reply to this list stating if it's been replaced, revised or otherwise. Everyone seems to be eager to jump down Valve's throat without acknowledging the fact that they are making an effort to work with us. Where's the big shout out to Valve from you guys that were spamming this list after every update you didn't get a beta for. We all know that updates will likely break things and it sucks to have to always find a new way to skin the same cat, but that's the way software works and most of you know that. Alfred, thanks from those of us who appreciate the steps you're making at trying to work with the community rather than against it. -- Original message -- From: Keeper [EMAIL PROTECTED] Plugin makers work hard to make plugins that help server operators as well as bring some new fun into the game for players without having to redistribute a mod. Valve is falling over itself to keep us from doing this. It's the community support and creativity that keep a game alive, and they have never gotten this. I'll tell you this, when HL2DM dies for me, steam will disappear from my computer for good. I will never buy another thing from them again. Unless they change their outlook towards the existing community and put some effort into supporting us. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your
[hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
why is it removed ? how are the settings now? does it have a fixed not changeable value? -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Alfred Reynolds Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. April 2007 23:28 An: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] zBlock is currently not compatible with the most recent SrcDS beta, we'll try to have a working version done before it's out of beta, however it seems like VALVe is making it pretty hard. On 4/26/07, Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] exact, it's hardcoded to the value 1 can't understand this step. Eveyone who changed this value should have been aware what the consequences can be. Just beause of some stupid kids which are doing mess as a Server Administrator it's hardcoded to 1 now. Thanks :/ 2007/4/26, Andreas Grimm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: why is it removed ? how are the settings now? does it have a fixed not changeable value? -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Alfred Reynolds Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. April 2007 23:28 An: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] it means that you are unable to run commands on clients and there is no way to bypass it. Thought it couldn't get worse... 2007/4/26, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
Reading what he said: Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. NOTE he said also server plug ins can exec client commands. So i was asking alfred for clarification on what he said. I understand what it would mean if it is fixed at 1, but what was reported was that plugins CAN exec client commands. Im waiting for verification on this. dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Wim Barelds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:53 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] People kept finding ways to get people to disable it without them actually wanting to change it themselves, through the MOTD I believe was the most recent one. They probably just got tired of people exploiting it, so they decided to hardcode it. Maybe Alfred can shed some light as to the reason, but a lot of things will be different now. Zblock will probably have to just tell the client what to change. Heh. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is why I never included such a feature into zblock :/ FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE prevented server running command: alias No server plugins cant still execute commands on clients... Atleast, not properly. To execute a command on a client, that command requires the FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE flag, it's very rare for cvars to have this, one of the few examples that does have this is the play console command (which plays an audio file). On 4/27/07, Cc2iscooL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] People kept finding ways to get people to disable it without them actually wanting to change it themselves, through the MOTD I believe was the most recent one. They probably just got tired of people exploiting it, so they decided to hardcode it. Maybe Alfred can shed some light as to the reason, but a lot of things will be different now. Zblock will probably have to just tell the client what to change. Heh. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands)
This quite honestly does not affect many plugins at all...this move is much better in the long run for Source. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is why I never included such a feature into zblock :/ FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE prevented server running command: alias No server plugins cant still execute commands on clients... Atleast, not properly. To execute a command on a client, that command requires the FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE flag, it's very rare for cvars to have this, one of the few examples that does have this is the play console command (which plays an audio file). On 4/27/07, Cc2iscooL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] People kept finding ways to get people to disable it without them actually wanting to change it themselves, through the MOTD I believe was the most recent one. They probably just got tired of people exploiting it, so they decided to hardcode it. Maybe Alfred can shed some light as to the reason, but a lot of things will be different now. Zblock will probably have to just tell the client what to change. Heh. On 4/26/07, Wim Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, it means that for some rediculous reason, it's become entirely impossible to execute commands on clients. Why this is not permitted with the active consent of the end user (as it was previously) is beyond me. VALVe is completely screwing over a truckload of server plugins because, well probably because it seemed like more fun then fixing things that are actually broken... I really don't see how you can remove a perfectly functional and save feature out of the blue. On 4/26/07, Affordablegameservers.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So does that mean it no longer is able to be set to 0 (ie we have no choice now its always on) or that its been removed period so now servers are able to run commands on clients (ie plugins will work now without the cvar set to 0) thanks dex -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alfred Reynolds Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 5:28 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The restrict cvar has been removed, zBlock needs to be updated. - Alfred -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaydaX Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 2:12 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] RE: [hlds_linux] Source Engine Dedicated server beta (cl_restrict_server_commands) The cl_restrict_server_commands cvar is not found in the beta version I get kicked from zBlock enabled servers for not having it set to 0. Also server plug ins can exec client commands. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- ___ Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
