Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Aligning multiple image stacks in the same pano - any way to do this automatically?

[J. Schneider*]

Hi Thomas!
Wow! Now I know why the expert interface is called like that.
Thank you very much. I would never have found this!

Is my use case so unusual that such a function is so hidden?

Best regards
Joachim


Am 26.09.2023 um 19:44 schrieb T. Modes:

Hi Joachim,

j-sc...@gmx.de schrieb am Dienstag, 26. September 2023 um 19:22:50 UTC+2:

Hello Thomas,
did I understand correctly, the images can be members of a stack
and their positions can be unlinked at the same time?

Yes, in this case the stack is an indicator for e.g. cpfind which
images it should match with other images in the stack.

"Display the image position" - is this?:
Okay, done so.

Is this the place where I should do the unlinking?
"... on the image position" - is there a particular spot where I
have to click to get the according context menu entry? Or is it
only that I don't recognize it?
In the screenshot I have selected the images that have already
been assigned to stacks 0.

I forgot to mentioned that you need to group by stack for this. Then
open the context menu on yaw/pitch/roll/… (not on the filename or
image number) because it affects the image position parameters but not
the filename.


On the Optimiser tab the context menu is the same. I tried
checking the boxes also of the first stack, selecting the images
and then optimize..


You can also unlink the images here. Open the context menu on the
checkbox or the number beside and select unlink.
The checkboxes in the tree should present which position/parameters is
optimized - only one parameter for all images of the stack or each
image individually.

 Thomas
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Aligning multiple image stacks in the same pano - any way to do this automatically?

[J. Schneider*]

Hello Thomas,
did I understand correctly, the images can be members of a stack and
their positions can be unlinked at the same time?

"Display the image position" - is this?:
Okay, done so.

Is this the place where I should do the unlinking?
"... on the image position" - is there a particular spot where I have to
click to get the according context menu entry? Or is it only that I
don't recognize it?
In the screenshot I have selected the images that have already been
assigned to stacks 0.


On the Optimiser tab the context menu is the same. I tried checking the
boxes also of the first stack, selecting the images and then optimize..

Now the optimisation actually seems to do something, but applying the
results doesn't yield any change - obviously because I haven't unlinked
the images.

Sorry for my dumb questions, I feel like a beginner, in spite of having
used hugin for some 20 years.

Best regards
Joachim

Am 26.09.2023 um 18:10 schrieb T. Modes:

j-sc...@gmx.de schrieb am Dienstag, 26. September 2023 um 00:10:20 UTC+2:

Okay,
>  you need to assign the stacks and unlink the positions when
shooting
> handheld before running cpfind. Cpfind needs this information
for the
> decision which images belong to which stack.
This sounds plausible.
So I guess I have to set Optimise - Geometric (on the Photos tab) to
"Custom Parameters" to get the Optimiser tab. But once the stacks are
defined, I can't do anything to the positions any more. There are
checkboxes only for the stack as a whole. Or what am I missing?

As I already written, you need to unlink the position in the stack.
This can be done on the photos tab or on the optimize tab.
Display the image position and open the context menu on the image
position, there you can it unlink (or link) the image position.

And "cpfind --multirow" is not in the dropdown menu. I guess the
whole
approach has to be done on the command line, right?

No, it can also be done in the GUI. The default cpfind settings
includes already the multirow setting.
You can also create your own settings for the control point detectors
in the GUI.

Thomas

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Aligning multiple image stacks in the same pano - any way to do this automatically?

[J. Schneider*]

Okay,

 you need to assign the stacks and unlink the positions when shooting
handheld before running cpfind. Cpfind needs this information for the
decision which images belong to which stack.

This sounds plausible.
So I guess I have to set Optimise - Geometric (on the Photos tab) to
"Custom Parameters" to get the Optimiser tab. But once the stacks are
defined, I can't do anything to the positions any more. There are
checkboxes only for the stack as a whole. Or what am I missing?
And "cpfind --multirow" is not in the dropdown menu. I guess the whole
approach has to be done on the command line, right?

Best regards,
Joachim

Am 25.09.2023 um 20:12 schrieb T. Modes:

But you need to assign the stacks and unlink the positions when
shooting handheld before running cpfind. Cpfind needs this information
for the decision which images belong to which stack.


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Aligning multiple image stacks in the same pano - any way to do this automatically?

[J. Schneider*]

Hello,
it's been some time since I last made a pano of stacked shots and now
I'm struggling to find out my previous workflow. I have been googeling
and searching through hugin-ptx and found this older post of which the
content seemed familiar. But in the current version (2022 on Windows)
doesn't have "Cpfind (multirow/stacked)" as a setting any more.

So the task is:
6 images, handheld!, consisting of 2 stacks of 3 images each, as a
(vertical, in this case) panorama.
When adding the images, hugin doesn't yet recognise by itself that there
might be stacks involved.
Ist there a way to
1) make hugin align the images inside the stacks first and
2) then align the 2 stacks as a panorama?

There must be a tutorial somewhere that I haven't found. Could someone
be so nice to point me there?
If there is, you needn't read further to tell me what's wrong with the
workflow I thought up myself which doesn't work as expected.


Apart from the fact that it doesn't work as expected, this workflow
would be extremely laborious for more stacks.

1) Images are added, but not yet defined as stacks (so they are 1
separate stack each). Select the images of 1 stack by hand and align
them with CPFind.
2) Optimise the stacks by switching on only the images of the current
stack and define one of them as anchor, optimise.
3) Define the stacks 0 an 1.
4) Let CPFind add control points for aligning the panorama. It generates
points between images 0 and 3 as expected.
5) Optimise. Unexpectedly, the images inside the stacks are optimized
again, they fit worse than before.

Best regards
Joachim


Am 20.10.2018 um 09:44 schrieb T. Modes:


Am Samstag, 20. Oktober 2018 08:41:15 UTC+2 schrieb Geoffrey Liu:


Maybe there is some philosophy behind why this is the behavior.
But I would really like a way to align the images in all my stacks
at once without having to go through this laborious process!
Anybody aware of something I might be missing?


Unlink the image positions in the stacks. Cpfind multirow strategy
already handles stacks. But when the position of the images is linked
it assumes the images in the stacks are already aligned and does not
search cp inside each stack.
If you insist on align_image_stack there is the setting "Cpfind
(multirow/stacked)" which runs align_image_stack on each stack and
then link all stacks with cpfind. Or you can create your own setting
in the control points detectors.
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Re: [hugin-ptx] 360 pano, auto expose?

[J. Schneider*]

Hello Paul,
I don't know if this is the intended use, but my experience is: Using
default settings works pretty well quite often.
Panorama output: Exposure corrected, LDR
Processing: Remapper: nona, Blender: enblend

If the exposure correction leads to darker images getting too dark or
brighter images getting too bright (depending on the anchor image)
because of hugin's approach of adjusting all images to the anchor image
- then I first try choosing a different anchor image.
If this doesn't help (e.g. choosing a medium exposed image and then both
ends of the brightness scale are too bright/dark), then I use exposure
fusion:
Panorama output: Exposure fused from any arrangement.

Both methods depend on sufficient overlap. For Exposure fusion it is of
course much more important to have well fitting images and no moving
objects because such defects can't be made up for by a well placed seam.

Best regards
Joachim

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Re: [hugin-ptx] PyImageFuser 0.5.0 released

[J. Schneider*]

Hello,
I really like PyImageFuser because it makes exposure fusion really
simple. But: When it doesn't give a good result with default parameters,
I can't see anything change when changing the parameter sliders (and
regenerating the preview).
I'm using the Windows version.
What's wrong? Do I have to do anything else for changed parameters to
take effect?

Best regards, Joachim

Am 29.05.2022 um 19:04 schrieb Harry van der Wolf:

Hi,

PyImageFuser is a Python3 PySimpleGUI program to exposure fuse
bracketed images, reduce noise in stacks and do focus stacking. It
uses align_image_stack and enfuse to accomplish this.

github: https://github.com/hvdwolf/PyImageFuser
Releases: https://github.com/hvdwolf/PyImageFuser/releases

In 2009-2010 I wrote ImageFuser in Applescript and released that as a
bundled app for MacOS (MacOS/X at that time). After leaving MacOS for
Linux, I also wrote KImagefuser for Linux, but the used Kommander
scripting died.
In the past couple of  weeks I wrote PyImageFuser: a GPLv3 Python3 GUI
frontend for enfuse and align_image_stack (both GPLv2), written
in/using PySimpleGUI. (The tkinter based version)

Why did I write PyImageFuser? Why not use a few scripts, Hugin or Lux
(pv) for the same purpose? Or use builtin camera/phone HDR options?
- Well, I do use 3 scripts for enfuse and align_image_stack (and lux
and align_image_stack) but they do not allow much tweaking.
- Hugin is for me an excellent panorama tool, but it's like using a
70+ functions swiss army knife when you only need a toothbrush and a
toothpick. Next to that: it doesn't give an as flexible option to
tweak align_image_stack and enfuse if you do not know all command line
options from the top of your head.
- Lux (pv) also does an excellent job, but is also more aimed at
"live" panorama making and I still can't get used to the interface.
Tweaking options for exposure blending are (for me) more difficult,
and align_image_stack, when needed, can only be used from the command
line.
- Cameras simply lack the CPU-power to do a good exposure bracketing
and completely lack the power for aligning images. Phones nowadays
have horse power enough to do both on sets of 3 images, but lack
features and still have small sensors.
- And finally: Very simple, I could do it (and even very simple using
PyimpleGUI) and I wanted to have something "dedicated" for this kind
of work.

I privately only use Linux and Chromebooks. Business wise I use
Windows. Occasionally I touch a Mac. All those systems have their own
shortcut/keyboard combinations, which I by now don't use anymore.
PyImageFuser is only meant for exposure bracketing, noise reduction
and focus stacking using a conventional user interface ;).

If you are interested in PyImageFuser
 you can download
it from the Releases
 page. It still
needs further tweaking (and undoubtedly bug fixing and platform
"hardening"), but it does what I want it to do.
/
/
Best regards,
Harry
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[hugin-ptx] image unexpectedly changed dimensions

[J. Schneider*]

Hello,
I have just experienced an error I had never before:

RemappedPanoImage::remapImage(): image
unexpectedly changed dimensions.
(C:\daten\Hugin\hugin-hg\src\hugin_base\nona/RemappedPanoImage.h:458)

(Full error report below)
I was stiching 4 images as "Exposure fused from any arrangement". The
strange thing is I just stitched the pano successfully, then removed one
control point which seemingly resulted only in minor changes and
restitched. Now I get this error.
Any idea what the problem is? Of course I didn't manipulate any image in
the meantime.

Best regards
Joachim

build 2021.0.0.52df0f76c700 on Windows 11


Panorama zusammenfügen...


Plattform: Windows 10 (build 22621), 64-bit edition
Version: 2021.0.0.52df0f76c700 built by Thomas
Aktuelles Verzeichnis: D:\Pictures\_Eingang\2023-05-06ff
Wales\2023-05-10 Wyndcliff, Chepstow
Ausgabe-Präfix: 2023-05-10 - 09-44-07 - 11+3

Überblendung: enblend 4.3-6b604e79e85b
Belichtungsfusion: enfuse 4.3-6b604e79e85b
ExifTool-Version: 12.37

Anzahl der aktiven Bilder: 3
Ausgabe-Belichtungswert: 13,6
Rahmengrösse: 6003x4715
ROI: (328, 54) - (5748, 4646)
FOV: 77x64
Projektion: Gradlinig (Rectilinear)(0)
Verwende GPU für Umberechnung: wahr

Panorama-Ausgabe:
* Belichtungsfusion von beliebiger Anordnung

Erstes Quell-Bild
Nummer: 1
Dateiname: D:\Pictures\_Eingang\2023-05-06ff Wales\2023-05-10 Wyndcliff,
Chepstow\2023-05-10 - 09-44-13 - 12.JPG
Größe: 5472x3080
Projektion: Gradlinig (Rectilinear)
Kamerakurve: Benutzerdefiniert (EMoR)
HFOV: 72
Belichtungswert: 13,3


Umberechnung von LDR-Bildern ohne Belichtungskorrektur...
nona: using graphics card: Intel Intel(R) UHD Graphics
Multiple images output
loading 2023-05-10 - 09-44-13 - 12.JPG
remapping 2023-05-10 - 09-44-13 - 12.JPG
saving 2023-05-10 - 09-44-07 - 11+3_exposure_layers_0001.tif
loading 2023-05-10 - 09-44-15 - 13.JPG
remapping 2023-05-10 - 09-44-15 - 13.JPG
saving 2023-05-10 - 09-44-07 - 11+3_exposure_layers_0002.tif
loading 2023-05-10 - 09-44-19 - 14.JPG
remapping 2023-05-10 - 09-44-19 - 14.JPG
caught exception:
Precondition violation!
RemappedPanoImage::remapImage(): image
unexpectedly changed dimensions.
(C:\daten\Hugin\hugin-hg\src\hugin_base\nona/RemappedPanoImage.h:458)


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Re: [hugin-ptx] PyImageFuser 0.5.0 released

[J. Schneider*]

I overlooked: In spite of the error message, there is a result in the
folder. It's perfect!
Thank you for that nice tool!
Would of course still be interested in what that error was.

Best regards
Joachim

Am 19.06.22 um 16:09 schrieb J. Schneider*:

Great! I seldom used stacking, but with a dedicated tool I might do it
more often. I just tried with an old project where I wasn't content with
the result so far.
I got the error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "PyImageFuser.py", line 303, in 
  File "PyImageFuser.py", line 291, in main
  File "image_functions.py", line 671, in displayImageWindow
  File "image_functions.py", line 652, in reorient_img
  File "PIL\Image.py", line 3677, in __getitem__
KeyError: 274

Can you tell me what has gone wrong?
I'm on Windows 11 Pro.

Best regards
Joachim



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Re: [hugin-ptx] PyImageFuser 0.5.0 released

[J. Schneider*]

Great! I seldom used stacking, but with a dedicated tool I might do it
more often. I just tried with an old project where I wasn't content with
the result so far.
I got the error message:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "PyImageFuser.py", line 303, in 
  File "PyImageFuser.py", line 291, in main
  File "image_functions.py", line 671, in displayImageWindow
  File "image_functions.py", line 652, in reorient_img
  File "PIL\Image.py", line 3677, in __getitem__
KeyError: 274

Can you tell me what has gone wrong?
I'm on Windows 11 Pro.

Best regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Hugin preference for Exiftool not working

[J. Schneider*]

Hello,
additionally to my previous post I'v got one more problem. I thought I
ask in a new thread, as it might have a different cause. Though
meanwhile I think preferences not being used is probably only one problem.

In my Hugin 2021.0.0.52df0f76c700 on Windows 10 the ExifTool options in
my preference
don't have an expected effect.

I have specified:
Final Exiftool argfile: D:\Pictures\hugin_exiftool_copy.arg
With the content:

   -ImageDescription
   -Make
   -Model
   -Artist
   -Copyright
   -GPS:all
   -AllDates
   -UserComment
   -OwnerName
   -SerialNumber

No tags are copied. Do I have to specify a path to Exiftool somewhere?
No, meanwhile hugin comes with it's own copy of it.

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[hugin-ptx] Hugin preferences for output filname not working

[J. Schneider*]

Hello,
in my Hugin 2021.0.0.52df0f76c700 on Windows 10 the set preference for
project /output filname
"%firstimage +%#images" and "%projectname"
doesn't have the expected effect. After it had been working in previous
versions, now the "%#images" always results in "2" in the end of the
filename.
Does anybody have an idea what has gone wrong?
(Btw.: I would love to be able to do a calculation in the template. I
would like like the name to mean "image xyz plus n more images". But
first I would like the old behaviour to work again.

Best regards
Joachim

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Re: [hugin-ptx] [Feature request]: Circle brush eraser for control points

[J. Schneider*]

I have wished the same many times, basically every time I use this tool!
Maybe a compromise would be to use a polygonal lasso tool. Something
like this is already implemented for masking, I guess some code could be
reused.
Sorry, my coding knowledge dates from last century, I'm no help
implementing it.

Best regards
Joachim

Am 01.02.21 um 02:30 schrieb Greg 'groggy' Lehey:

On Monday,  1 February 2021 at  0:25:51 +, Hugin developers list wrote:

I take many nature landscape panoramas in which most features are
not straight like buildings. So when I want to remove CPs, the
rectangle selection (Ctrl + right click) is unhandy, as I have to
draw many rectangles to erase points on, say, a single tree.

If there was a circular brush tool to erase control points, removing
them would be much easier.

Does this seem useful to users other than me?

Yes, this seems an excellent idea.

As people have told me on other projects when I come up with an idea
like this: "Send code".  I don't know how difficult it is, but my
guess is that nobody else will implement it.

Greg
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Request : forum migration

[J. Schneider*]

Hi,
I have a question about how Disourse or an alternative would be used. My
short seach and wikipedia reading on Discourse didn't answer this.
What would a user have to do to read this forum and write to it? Would
it be manifest as a web page? Would a user have to be a member?
Seemingly there is also an app for mobile devices, but what does it work
like for a Windows computer user?
(At the moment I use simply my e-mail client (Thunderbird) to read the
hugin mailing list and to me this is convenient as it is integrated into
software I use anyway and messages are available without any interaction
from my side.)

Best regards
Joachim

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Exif + Intermediate files

[J. Schneider]

Thank you very much Thomas, this has shed some light into this dark 
matter. So modifying the argfile is my way to go because a) I care only 
for the final result and b) I usually stitch using PTbatcher.

And it works!

Best regards
Joachim Schneider

Am 01.04.2017 um 13:09 schrieb T. Modes:

Hi Joachim,

Am Freitag, 31. März 2017 23:03:00 UTC+2 schrieb J. Schneider:

So what I don't yet understand is the role of the executor file
and the arg file.


some more details. There are 2 ways to invoke the stitching:

1.) Normal stitching.
All settings from the stitcher tab and the preferences are read and 
applied during stitching. (e.g. exiftool argfiles)
Here you can select which output should create on stitcher tab. The 
metadata are only copied to the blended/fused images, but not to the 
remapped only images. So modifying the argfile does not help to copy 
EXIF data to the remapped only images.


2.) User defined output queue
Here the steps for the stitching are fixed coded in the .executor file 
(so no options in the GUI, these can be implemented by different 
executor files). So it's easier to add additional steps to the 
processing queue (using other blender, process intermediate image with 
additional program, ...).
In this case the settings from the stitcher tab are ignored (except 
projection, fov and canvas size). The same applies to the settings in 
the preferences, these are also ignored.
There is no fixed place for an executor file. You can select the file 
from any place by a file open dialog. (2017.0 shows executor files 
from 2 directory in the menu bar: system wide executor files from 
Hugins data directory and user specific executor files from the users 
data directory).
(PTBatcherGUI can not work with an executor file, here is always the 
normal stitching applied.)



Thomas

PS:

And I tried changing hugin_exiftool_copy.arg to "-iptc:all
-exif:all". 


In the arg file all arguments have to be on an own line, also
-iptc:all
-exif:all
But this copies the data only to the final (blended/fused) image, not 
to the remapped images.



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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Exif + Intermediate files

[J. Schneider]

Thank you for your help,
it seems I lack some fundamental knowledge about how hugin is working 
behind the scenes. But I located C:\Program Files\Hugin\share\hugin\data 
and some .executor files, I guess this is where the file would go. 
Anyway - as I am not able to build hugin myself I will have to wait till 
this comes as an end user feature. But sounds promising!


No, wait, I just have to change those files to my liking if I can't yet 
add any new ones.


So what I don't yet understand is the role of the executor file and the 
arg file.
Both contain a set of arguments to pass to exiftool. But which one is 
used while stiching? Executor if there is no arg file specified? My 
modifications don't yet yield any (different) result, but I believe I 
must be on the right way. I changed the last line of the executor file to

"Arguments=-overwrite_original_in_place -TagsFromFile %image0% %result%"
for a try.
And I tried changing hugin_exiftool_copy.arg to "-iptc:all -exif:all".
Both should transfer all tags now, if I understand the role of these 
files and the exiftool documentation. (Don't mind that transferring the 
focal length e.g. to the result doesn't make sense. It's a try.)

Any more hint?

Best regards
Joachim Schneider


Am 30.03.2017 um 18:21 schrieb T. Modes:

Hi Joachim,

find attached an example for an user-defined output sequence for this 
use case. Only some EXIF tags are currently copied, but you can simply 
extend the arguments.


Keep in mind that this user defined output sequence needs a Hugin 
version from default branch (after changeset cc6d6ff6346a, it does not 
work in released versions).


Thomas
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Exif + Intermediate files

[J. Schneider]

Hello Thomas,
this is interesting to me, too, because I have a similar wish. Could you 
tell us where and how this placeholder %sourceimage% is to be used? Is 
it in argfiles that can be specified in preferences tab Stiching (2)?

Best regards
Joachim

Am 26.03.2017 um 11:45 schrieb T. Modes:



Am Sonntag, 26. März 2017 10:39:15 UTC+2 schrieb Chris Brown:

I'm trying to figure out how to keep exif data from the original
'now' photos for the remapped intermediate files.

Currently only the metadata of the first image can be copied to all 
intermediate images. This refers to the blended and fused images, not 
to the remapped *only* images.
The EXIF data refer to the original image. So some information is not 
valid anymore when applied to the remapped image (e.g. when you change 
the field of view the focal length/cropfactor is not valid for the 
remapped image).


But wait, I added an additional placeholder %sourceimage% to the user 
defined output sequence in changeset cc6d6ff6346a. This should allow 
to copy selected EXIF tags to the remapped images, when you create 
your own user defined output sequence.


I'd also like to save values for each photo from the optimiser tab
(orientation & lens parameters - y,p,r etc) in the exif of the
intermediate so I can keep track of how originals have been changed.

This is not possible with Hugin tools.

I'm wondering what values can be saved using the argfiles in hugin
preferences and if there is any further documention about it?

In principle all tags which exiftool can write can be copied. So read 
the tag documentation of exiftool.
All supported placeholders are described in the dialog (no 
undocumented one are available).


Thomas
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: GUI overhaul

[J. Schneider]

Hello all, hello John,
you expressed a couple of problems that I experience, too. It took me 
quite some time to get used to it.


1. "Hiding the Optimizer and Exposure windows is confusing." I guess you 
meant the tabs. These are displayed as soon as you choose a setting like 
"custom parameters" for geometric or photometric optimisation. So they 
are not displayed as long as there are not settings to change. Quite 
useful I find - but see issue 4.


2. Why is there no delete button? I wonder too! That's what GUIs are 
for. They should present the possible commands and not make you search 
for them. (Anyway, you can just hit the delete key!)


3. This new underlining & bolding UI is not only less ergonomic to read 
and to use, I must admit I have never understood how to use it properly. 
I can "select all" or "unselect all" images to be optimized for a 
specific parameter.
Thank you John! You mentioned Ctrl-clicking and I tried and only now 
found out how to optimise a parameter for only one image (or a 
selection, but not all).  I really think there should be a more obvious 
way to do this.
Or have I been living under a rock and this is something a computer user 
usually knows?
This is why I have not uninstalled the last hugin version with the old 
UI and although I know now how to use it I would still be grateful if it 
could be reverted to checkboxes.


4. Yes, the sub menu structure of these menus doesn't make it clear 
where to find that. When you have the Exposure tab displayed (see 
above!) it's easier or more obvious: When you hit the "Reset" button, 
you get a similar dialogue to that "reset custom ..." one and here it's 
in the first option. I think, too, this should be easier to find. 
Although this is probably a very special use case.



Best regards
Joachim Schneider


Am 17.09.2015 um 21:06 schrieb John Eklund:
After sticking to an old Hugin version for years ("if it ain't broken, 
don't fix it"), I finally created a project which made the old cpfind 
crash (500 images gigapixel), so I reminded myself that new is not 
necessarily bad, took the plunge and upgraded to Hugin 2015.0.0.


Wow what a change! And not just for the better. I used to be a Hugin 
power user. Now I feel like an amateur again. There are some 
frustrating nags. Here are the most important ones:


1. Hiding the Optimizer and Exposure windows is confusing. I want 
everything! I am using the Expert interface and still Hugin hides 
things from me.


Why are automatic optimizations moved to the Photos tab while custom 
optimizations remain on the Optimizer tab? Confusing. I also miss the 
connection between exactly what parameters are marked when selecting a 
predefined optimization. I want to see what is what. I often select 
one of the predefined optimizations as a quick way of mass-ticking 
parameters as a basis and then elaborating on them manually before 
actually optimizing "custom parameters". Thankfully this still works 
but doing it in separate tabs is tedious and confusing.


2. Thanks to #1, it took me a while before I found how to change / 
delete a lens. Why are there no buttons? "Every" function should exist 
as a button, not just in the right-click menu.


3. Underlining & bolding the parameters selected for optimization 
makes them hard to distinguish. Please go back to checkboxes, which 
makes it possible using Tab and Space to mark the boxes. Ctrl-clicking 
is tedious.


4. Resetting ALL exposure correction (incl EV) should be more obvious. 
I mix images created in Enfuse with straight-from-camera images with 
images that have been manipulated with ancient tools and a tool I've 
developed myself (PicStack) that do not retain any EXIF data. I know 
what I'm doing and adjust every image by hand before touching Hugin. I 
never want Hugin to know anything about exposure. I had a hard time 
figuring out how to get rid of the EV values for EXIF-containing 
images. Why are these not reset by "Reset lens parameters" and I have 
to instead "Reset user defined..."?


Any hopes of getting these nags rectified?

Best regards
John Eklund, Sweden

Some of my work:
http://www.elmuseum.se/panorama/
...


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: hugin crashes on win7 when opening fast preview of existing project

[J. Schneider]

I don't use the overview at all, the overview window is switched off.
Joachim

Am 07.09.2015 um 07:28 schrieb brandan34 via hugin and other free 
panoramic software:
When you view the fast preview in expert, what mode is the over view 
in? A while back I was having problems with hugin crashing when 
loading a file and figured out it was caused by the overview mode on 
the fast preview being set on Mosaic Plane. I switched it to 
Panosphere and have never had the problem again. (I thought I reported 
it at the time, but if I did, I did not follow up to see if it was fixed.)

...


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[hugin-ptx] hugin crashes on win7 when opening fast preview of existing project

[J. Schneider]

Hello,
testing the EV settings problem I just experienced a problem again that 
bugs me for quite some time already:


When I open an existing project, e.g. one that the assistant has just 
finished, and the first thing I do  after opening is opening the preview 
window: hugin hangs and I have to force quit.
If I open it again and optimize it before opening the preview it doesn't 
crash.
(In this specific case it was the first time that optimizing after 
opening was not a cure, I simply couldn't make the preview open.)

Happens with some projects reproducibly, with other projects it doesn't.

Win 7 SP1 64bit with hugin 2015.0.0, but I had the problem with 2014 as 
well. I'm not sure whether I had it on my previous Win XP box, but I 
believe I did.

The UI I use is the expert UI in German.
I haven't figured out any rule, like size, image count, or projection.
My panoramas are usually hand-held partial panoramas between 2 and 20 
jpg images of 12 Mpx.


Best regards
Joachim

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Problem with EV setting in Preview panel

[J. Schneider]

Hello,
I just tried on Win 7 SP1 64bit bith hugin 2015.0.0 and could partially 
reproduce the problem:


- Opened an existing project and changed EV in preview window by 
keyboard: preview did not change
- clicked an arrow and the value in the text box did not change by 1/3EV 
from the previously entered
   value but by 1/3EV from the original value (the value before I 
entered one by hand), this time preview did change.

- Ctrl-Z to revert and saved project in a new file (for not to mess it up)
- again changed EV by keyboard: preview did change now
- stitched and result was like preview

So it seems to depend on the circumstances.
Best regards
Joachim

Am 25.08.2015 um 01:47 schrieb Donald Johnston:

Can someone that’s running Hugin on Windows give this a try and see if it’s a 
common problem or limited just to the Mac version.
If just the Mac I’ll enter this as a bug.
Thanks.


On Aug 21, 2015, at 8:48 PM, Donald Johnston  wrote:

Hi I’m running Hugin "2014.0.0 built by Matthieu DESILE” on my MacBook Pro 
“Yosemite 10.10.4 (14E46)”.

In the Preview panel of the “Fast Panorama preview” if I set the EV using the 
keyboard it doesn’t seem to apply. After running the Create Panorama the EV 
value gets set back to what it originally was.
If I use the up/down arrows to change the EV and run Create Panorama then the 
EV value is used.

Also … while clicking on the up/down arrows the Preview image doesn’t change. I 
have to uncheck the Photometrics box and then recheck it to see any change.
I find that the best way to use the EV value is to uncheck the 
Photometrics, click to change the EV value to adjust the problems in one part 
of the image, and then recheck Photometrics.

Am I doing anything wrong here?  Should this be reported as a bug?

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Feature request/Bug fix

[J. Schneider]

+ another 1!
Additional: This could be made possibel with a checkbox "only images 
selected in preview window".

Best regards
Joachim Schneider

Am 28.05.2015 um 17:23 schrieb Luís Henrique Camargo Quiroz:

+ 1 vote for this proposal

2015-05-28 9:57 GMT-03:00 paul womack >:


When working on a stubborn optimising problem, it is helpful
to work "stepwise".

...

Proposal/Solution:

F3 should only show CPs for "image selected in preview window",
possibly also under the control of the option in the Optimise tab.

 BugBear

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: 2015.0 rc3 release

[J. Schneider]

Sorry for posting too fast - I don't know what has gone wrong at first, 
but now the tool is obviously there - I am delighted!
May I use this place for a request for a small improvement? Keep the 
"show control points" checkbox status persistent. Every time I switch 
back to the preview tab I have to check it again.


Best regards
Joachim


Am 02.08.2015 um 17:07 schrieb J. Schneider:

Great, thanks a lot for the Windows build.
I am missing where the new feature
* The fast preview window has a new tool to add or remove control 
points to selected areas in the output projection.
is to be found. Is it contained in this build? It is something I have 
been waiting for eagerly! (In my hand-held panoramas there is always 
foreground that doesn't match. And the control points in clouds that 
celeste misses would also be deleted much quicker this way.)


Apart from this everything works properly as usual.

Best regards
Joachim
...


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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: 2015.0 rc3 release

[J. Schneider]

Great, thanks a lot for the Windows build.
I am missing where the new feature
* The fast preview window has a new tool to add or remove control 
points to selected areas in the output projection.
is to be found. Is it contained in this build? It is something I have 
been waiting for eagerly! (In my hand-held panoramas there is always 
foreground that doesn't match. And the control points in clouds that 
celeste misses would also be deleted much quicker this way.)


Apart from this everything works properly as usual.

Best regards
Joachim

Am 01.08.2015 um 19:37 schrieb Harry van der Wolf:

*Windows binaries* for the Hugin 2015.0.0 RC3 version are now available.

...
Hoi,
Harry



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Re: [hugin-ptx] description needed for translation

[J. Schneider]

Hi Carl, hi all,
fortunately poedit tolerates being opened in two instances so I could
search Carl's file for the strings that mine lacked. Added a few more
and uploaded, so it is "checked in" again.
There are some strings left and I left them because I don't know where
they belong:

"Combined stacks:"
currently "Verbundene Stapel:"

"Founded panoramas"
Does it mean "Found panoramas"?

"Cleanup arguments:"

"Format:"
currently "Dateiformate", was marked as fuzzy in my file.

"Let me fix that"

"The prefix of an assistant target can not be changed."

"conformal" = "konformal" or "konform"?

Could somebody help here?

Best regards
Joachim



Am 30.11.2010 15:42, schrieb Carl von Einem:
> Hi Joachim,
> 
> here is my file. It is based on the older de.po, i.e. it doesn't contain
> the latest correction by Thomas as of yesterday.
> 
> Joachim Schneider schrieb am 30.11.10 11:46:
>> Hi Carl,
>>
>> usually I don't work on a translation for long and I usually
>> upload even few changes soon to avoid this situation. But the
>> idea of some mechanism in the tracker to emulate a check out
>> is good.
>>
>> I would try to compare the files with Notepad++. (First
>> populate the empty translation fields in one or both files
>> with dummy strings.) Though you are better off concerning
> 
> I thought about that, too. If both files had the same sort order I could
> use TextWrangler or BBEdit to compare the files. It'll just make later
> attempts to search for new strings a bit tedious.
> 
>> screens, I think I would manage this way. It shouldn't be
>> more than 26 translations to copy. Plus those were one
>> realizes that one translation is better than the other.
> 
> I also changed something in an older, already translated string. But
> that also should turn up in your search with Notepad++ I hope :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Carl
> 

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Re: [hugin-ptx] description needed for translation

[J. Schneider]

Hello Carl,
I have also started to translate, but I missed to upload the changes
because I didn't yet have hg installed (was still old svn). Now I'm not
sure if it makes sense to upload now.
The version I just got with the new repository says
"POT-Creation-Date: 2010-11-29 20:24+0100\n"
"PO-Revision-Date: 2010-09-02 19:40+0100\n"
"Last-Translator: T. Modes\n"
so I believe your changes aren't yet uploaded. I guess it doesn't do any
harm to upload now. I have still 10 fuzzy and 16 untranslated strings
left. So if you are further, just overwrite it.
(Next time I will take care how to upload first.)

Btw, I made "Sichtbarkeits-Änderungen zusammenfassen" out of the string
you asked for. But maybe the more verbose version is better understandable.

regards
Joachim

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: ANN: Hugin-2010.4.0beta1 source tarball released

[J. Schneider]

Hello,
many thanks for the installer. I haven't had time yet to look at
functionality but I realize that in the Win32 version there are heaps of
untranslated strings when I leave the language set to system default.
But in the de.po file it says 100% of 1074 strings were translated.
I didn't file a bug in spite of our shiny new bugtracker (though it's
cool!) because I thought this way this kind of issue might reach someone
who can fix it faster and is probably easily fixed.
(As far as I understand, if it is a build issue Matthew would only
receeive information about my bug report if he is subsribed to receive
all new reports, right?)

regards
Joachim

Am 27.11.2010 07:03, schrieb Matthew Petroff:
> Windows binaries for Hugin 2010.4.0-beta1 are now available:
>
> 32-bit (no installer):
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2010.4_beta/Hugin_2010.4.0-beta1_32bit_Windows.7z/download
>
> 64-bit (no installer):
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2010.4_beta/Hugin_2010.4.0-beta1_64bit_Windows.7z/download
>
> 32-bit Installer:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2010.4_beta/HuginSetup_2010.4.0-beta1_32bit_Windows.exe/download
>
> 64-bit Installer:
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2010.4_beta/HuginSetup_2010.4.0-beta1_64bit_Windows.exe/download
>
> Matthew

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Owie

[J. Schneider]

Hi Torger,
though I understand your point of view, my perception is different: Many 
programs might be able to produce perfect results out of perfect input 
(more or less easily), but one particular advantage of hugin is, that it 
can deal with less-than-perfect input quite well. (At least there is a 
lot of options to tweak manually.)
I barely ever have the possibility to shoot with tripod, e.g. while 
climbing, and I am glad I get results between usable and perfect out of 
hugin! So I am glad about all features that make it more valuable for 
those who use mediocre input and still want possibly good results.


But anyway imperfect input is not suitable for "benchmarking", that's true.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] German translation questions (and a little poedit problem)

[J. Schneider]

Hi all,
while I wish I had the time to try to get my hugin to compile I can at 
least do a little on the translation. So here are a few questions:

Could somebody point me out what exactly is meant by "excess" in 
"Calculate crop borders such that the final images has the largest area 
without excess"? Is it white space?

Does anybody have an idea how to translate (de)ghosting into German (or 
with what other terms have other translators come up? I have looked into 
French and "Suppression d'éléments fantômes" would be "Unterdrückung von 
Phantomelementen". Not so bad, but I'm not content.

Has anybody had an idea how to translate "stitcher". The direct 
tranlation doesn't make much sense in German. A nice short term like 
"stitcher" would be needed, but I can think of long clumsy expressions only.

Where is "upstream" used?

What about translating "advanced options" with "ausführliche Optionen"? 
I haven't seen other occurences of advanced (in this meaning) in hugin.

The translation of "Calculate optimal image size, such that the 
resolution in the image center stays similar" has been marked fuzzy. Has 
the English original changed? I find "Optimale Bildgröße berechnen, so 
dass die Auflösung der Bildmitte etwa der Originalauflösung entspricht" 
still quite good.

Output modes again: Has the term "merge" been discussed before? (I can 
only remember discussing blending and fusing.) "Verschmelzen" is the 
direct translation, I tend to use it.

When saving I get
19:50:36: D:\hugin-trunk\src\translations\de.po:406: number of format 
specifications in 'msgid' and 'msgstr' does not match
19:50:36: msgfmt: found 1 fatal error
I can't remember I had changed anything anywhere. Just pulled the 
current version and worked on translations as always. I'll rather not 
upload the file in this state?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hi,
although the wiki paage looks like all the patches from the package 
should be applied, I started with patching only libxmi and lcms.
Then I had a look at what MSVC would say and I thought "build new" (or 
whatever "neu erstellen" is in the English version) would be a better 
choice than just "build". Anyway vigra succeeded (though with a heap of 
warnings - is this OK?) and enblend failed. This time with less warnings 
and then
"LINK : fatal error LNK1181: Eingabedatei 'libxmi.lib' kann nicht 
geöffnet werden."
(... "Input file 'libxmi.lib' can't be opened")

(Actually there was one step in between: first libtif.lib couldn't be 
found. Had a look at the list of include dirs in the properties and saw 
that the entries that I had changed yesterday are not changed/changes 
not saved. Changed them again, saved, reopened - not saved again. Could 
somebody tell me where this data is stored? Anyway what I don't 
understand is that I open *.sln and when I save *.ncb and *.suo are 
saved. *.sln is untouched. How do I deal properly with these files?)

Now I look at my no. 6.6 in 
http://www.joachimschneider.info/moving_target.html
and see that it reads
1. Download http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuwin32/files/
   libxmi/1.2-1/libxmi-1.2-1-src.zip/download
2. there is a libxmi.sln inside it, just start it.
of which I seem to have done only 1 so far.
There is no *.sln included but only a libxmi.vcproj which I can open in 
MSVC.
Set to "Release"When I try "build" it suggests libxmi.sln as output file 
name. When I accept this it complains (translated) "The project file 
'libxmi' has been changed outside the environment. Click 'load again' to 
reload from disk or 'ignore' to ignore the external changes. They will 
be used when opening the project next time."
But anyway it builds.

So I give enblend another try: Now it says "fatal error LNK1120: 15 
unsolved external references."
BuildLog: http://www.joachimschneider.info/BuildLog_enblend-20081118-01.htm
(The previously announced one is BuildLog_enblend-20081115-01.htm now.)

What I haven't done yet is applying all patches from the zip file and 
changing the reference to tiff-3.9.1 to the path in wxWidgets where I 
find tiff.h.
This will be the next try. Tomorrow.

Ryan Sleevi schrieb:
> See
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2789320&group_id=77506&atid=
> 550443
> 
> Look at the diff files for libxmi-1.2 and lcms-1.18
> 
> tiff.h can be found in wxWidgets, unless you're specifically linking against
> a newer version for the larger file support (note: if doing so, make sure
> you're not duplicating symbols in wxWidgets)
> 
> More details are at http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_SDK_%28MSVC_2008%29 

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Can't build Enblend under Windows

[J. Schneider]

Ryan Sleevi schrieb:
> If you visit the Wiki page, you can see the instructions for how to do this
> - http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_SDK_%28MSVC_2008%29 - including the
> necessary patch files -

Do I understand correctly that the instructions on this page also apply 
if I have installed (unpacked) the precompiled SDK and some components 
are broken? Then this is what I need. And I seem to have exactly 
Rotareneg's problem
(http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/msg/c6c6f88265f66700)
so I have to get down to installing UnxUtils and patching.

regards
Joachim

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Can't build Enblend under Windows

[J. Schneider]

Rotareneg schrieb:
> I was trying to follow the Wiki instructions at
> http://wiki.panotools.org/Build_Hugin_for_Windows_with_SDK which seems
> to be missing "several" (i.e. many)  important steps, the precompiled
> SDK likewise. However, I did, with your help, (thanks!) get enblend to
> build.
> 
> I'll go over the process again and take notes so I can try to fill in
> the blanks on the wiki.

I would be grateful. As you can see in 
groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/browse_thread/thread/404a39038ab44d29
I am trying to build hugin (and enblend) on windows myself, though 
obviously with a lot less knowledge.
Maybe I should start to incorporate my temporary findings at
http://www.joachimschneider.info/moving_target.html
into the wiki. (Btw, this level of detail is what me dummy needs to get 
something done ...)

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hi Ryan,

> See
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2789320&group_id=77506&atid=
> 550443
> 
> Look at the diff files for libxmi-1.2 and lcms-1.18
> 
> tiff.h can be found in wxWidgets, unless you're specifically linking against
> a newer version for the larger file support (note: if doing so, make sure
> you're not duplicating symbols in wxWidgets)
> 
> More details are at http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_SDK_%28MSVC_2008%29 

To be honest, this is far beyond my level of skills. I'm not a 
programmer at all. (You can't count the remainders of some TurboPascal 
from the late 80s.) So I barely know what a diff is, let alone read it. 
Neither do I have a clue what a symbol is (I would guess some kind of 
variable).
My trying to build hugin is something like the effort to make an SDK or 
a documentation that is foolproof, and I kind of volunteer as the fool 
needed therefore ...

But do I understand you correctly: If I have tiff-3.xx listed separately 
in my list of include directories (instead of 
wxWidgets-2.8.10\include\wx where tiff.h is found as well) something can 
go wrong or special measures have to be taken. I think Yuv said that the 
larger file support (and some other improvements?) make it worth while 
using the latest tiff version. What would I have to do to avoid 
duplicating symbols - or would using the wxWidgets version be a shorter 
(though less perfect) solution to a working build?
And: would using the wxWidgets version work just as simple as putting 
wxWidgets-2.8.10\include\wx into the include list instead of tiff-3.xx?

Best regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

 > I took my moving_target.html and my huginbase directory to reconsider
 > where I was standing.
One more thing that I noticed:
In the properties of enblend I don't see come include folders any more 
that used to be listed there (at least according to my email): glew and 
glut. No clue why, but I'll add them again.
..\..\glew\include
..\..\glut\include

regards
Joachim

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hallo Yuv,

I took my moving_target.html and my huginbase directory to reconsider 
where I was standing.

- trying to build enblend
   - lcms built successfully
   - wxWidgets found again after it looked like missing
   - libtiff built sucessfully
   - STLport: Got the source and did that configure thing - but actually
 I don't exactly know (or remember) what this produced. Anyway there
 is an STLport folder now.
   - libxmi: Got the source and unzipped it. Is this it?

This is where I stopped and the last question was, whether I should do 
anything more than unzipping it:
 > 2. libxmi-1.2
  In the INSTALL file it says
  1. Do './configure', 'make', and 'make install', as usual.  This
  will install both libxmi and its header file, xmi.h.
  but I'm not sure if "installing" is what I want to do in this case.
 >>
 >> these are standard instruction for Linux/Unix. They don't work for
 >> MSVC. Also IIRC you just want to unpack it there, not necessarily
 >> build/install it. But I may be wrong. I'm currently on Linux and it's
 >> late. I shall look at my Windows box soon.
 > OK, let's keep this one for later.

Just to verify that MSVC doesn't complain any more about missing things 
that I believe I solved I reran a build. The logs are below.
First thing I wondered about is that two projects are built: first 
vigra_impex and then enblend. But I found out that I have to chose from 
a submenu to build only a certain part.
Next thing is that it complains about missing tiff.h when building 
vigra. There was still tiff-3.8.2 listed in it's properties and with 
changing it to 3.9.1 this was solved.
(Updated moving_target.html accordingly.)

Building enblend didn't fail any more because of some dependency missing 
but because of too many other errors occurring. I put the complete log 
at http://www.joachimschneider.info/BuildLog.htm, but beginning and end 
are cited here:

2>-- Erstellen gestartet: Projekt: enblend, Konfiguration: Release 
Win32 --
2>Kompilieren...
2>cl : Befehlszeile warning D9035 : Die Option "Wp64" ist veraltet und 
wird in einer der nächsten Versionen entfernt.
2>getopt_long.c

2>d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(781) : error C2146: 
Syntaxfehler: Fehlendes ';' vor Bezeichner 'count'
2>d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(781) : fatal error C1003: Mehr 
als 100 Fehler gefunden; Kompilierung wird abgebrochen.
Ergebnisse Das Buildprotokoll wurde unter 
"file://d:\huginbase\enblend\src\Release\BuildLog.htm" gespeichert.
enblend - 264 Fehler, 1 Warnung(en)

I'm not sure if this is some progress. But at least it is a new kind of 
failing. I don't know if MSVC had found anything else missing if it 
hadn't stopped at some point. (Probably this is configurable, but I 
didn't find where.)

Can you give me the next hints?
regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hallo Yuv,

Yuv schrieb:
 > Did I answer your questions?
The question about libxmi? no, not yet. So far I did just what I wrote 
in moving_target: I unzipped it inside huginbase.

 > What is the status of
 > http://www.joachimschneider.info/moving_target.html ?
> I see at the end of moving_target.html something about copying enblend
> and enfuse. Does this mean that you built them successfully?

No, this was only the instruction (yours or the wiki's) what to do after 
building. When I compiled all information about the process I had I also 
included steps that I hadn't executed yet myself.
I think I have put everything so far into moving_target, I think it is 
up to date (just fixed a typo in the libxmi section).

After I had some hardware trouble I think I'm back now. (I'm just 
verifying that the machine runs reliably even under heavy load by 
processing a 6px wide pano and mailing and browsing at the same 
time. Couldn't drive it into blue screen so far.)

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Windows 2009.2 installer package: please test

[J. Schneider]

Hallo Yuval,
> J. Schneider wrote:
>> The presets are present, correctly as listed in the posting "Control 
>> point generator incantations" by Bruno from 07. September. But the 
>> executables are not!
> 
> this is intended behavior - simply because there were no resources to 
> implement anything more sophisticated and because it is better to 
> provide examples this way than nothing at all.

Having only those examples in the preferences for which the executables 
are installed as well would probably be not too complicated to 
implement. Would have to be decided at install time unless different 
installers are provided (which is reasonable for other reasons as you 
explained).

>> Living outside the USA I never spent much thought about how a bundle 
>> without certain cp generators should work.
> 
> panomatic is protected by a *EUROPEAN* patent. This is not a US-only issue.

Oops, I thought the European law about patents on software had not yet 
passed. What a shame.

> What error message does the user get now when the cp generator is not 
> present?
"Could not execute command: panomatic.exe -o tempdir>\.tmp 
"

> Patches are always welcome. I currently have no bandwidth to take up 
> this additional task, which honestly is very low priority to me.

Really no high priority. But a more useful error report would be good as 
in many other situations. I will file a bug so it won't be forgotten, 
with low priority (low number=low priority?).

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Windows 2009.2 installer package: please test

[J. Schneider]

Hallo Yuval,
> 2009.2 comes with control point creator presets [0] for the most popular 
> CP generators known, but these generators are not part of the official 
> Hugin tarball distribution.

> I don't know if Allard did put any or all of them in his Windows binary 
> installer, and if he did whether he did put them in the place expected 
> by the template.

The presets are present, correctly as listed in the posting "Control 
point generator incantations" by Bruno from 07. September. But the 
executables are not! (at least not in bin\, but where else should they 
be.) I hadn't considered this simple possibility.

Living outside the USA I never spent much thought about how a bundle 
without certain cp generators should work. But now it occurs to me that 
either
1. the GUI should reflect the presence of cp generators in the choice 
displayed or
2. when selecting a cp generator that is not installed, the user should 
get a meaningful error message: "This tool is not installed" or 
something the like.
I guess the second is easier to implement.

regards
Joachim


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[hugin-ptx] Re: Windows 2009.2 installer package: please test

[J. Schneider]

Hi Allard,
it might be installer specific or as well an addition to the CP gen. 
interface thread below:
My installation of the package (clean slate, set default settings, all 
cp-generators selected) can run only aps-c. Autopano is not found (when 
I copy it into bin\ it works) and Panomatic and Match-n-shift give
"Could not execute command: panomatic.exe -o d:\tmp\ap_D.tmp "D:\use
rs\... ..."

Log:
21:38:45: Execution of command '"panomatic.exe" -o d:\tmp\ap_11.tmp 
"D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8701.JPG" "D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8702.JPG" 
"D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8703.JPG" "D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8704.JPG"' failed (error 
2: das System kann die angegebene Datei nicht finden.)
21:38:45: Execution of '"panomatic.exe" -o d:\tmp\ap_11.tmp 
"D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8701.JPG" "D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8702.JPG" 
"D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8703.JPG" "D:\tmp\2009-10-21-8704.JPG"' failed.
(Translation of error 2: The system can't find the specified file.)

Apart from that the version works properly. Thanks!
regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Celeste missing in SVN 4450 (Windows)

[J. Schneider]

>  From your comment I infer that you are using one of Ad's unofficial 
> snapshots?

Ad's 2009.2.4450, his latest.
regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Celeste missing in SVN 4450 (Windows)

[J. Schneider]

> actually it is the celeste model that is expected there, 
(That's what I meant.)

> and indeed it is likely an installer issue.
OK, so it's not worth filing an "official" bug. Hope Ad has read this 
thread.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Celeste missing in SVN 4450 (Windows)

[J. Schneider]

Hi,
hugin SVN 4450 (on Windows) expects celeste in
\share\hugin\data.
This directory (and neither the file) exist in my installation. (Copied 
from a previous one and it works.) Is this an installer issue or 
something else?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hallo Yuv,
hope the surprise back home was not too bad.

>> I guess I fixed this. (But just to understand it better: If tiff.h is 
>> what is needed and it is in the mentioned wxWidgests folder, then 
>> changing the entry to that folder should generally work?)
> 
> a .h file is a header file. you also need either the associated source 
> code (.c or .cpp) or the associated binary object file (.o) - I might be 
> wrong on the detail - ...

I was asking just because tiff.h was the file the compiler complained 
about it were missing.
Anyway there are heaps of .obj and .c files in tiff-3.9.1\libtiff but no 
tiff.obj or tiff.c.
Maybe we'll see later what MSVC will complain about.

>> What is it that I need? The newly created stuff inside libtiff? There is
>> a new libtiff.dll compiled.
the process is so new to me that I don't know what to expect as the 
result of a build, if not simply an .exe.
> .dll are for dynamic linking. we link statically, so what we need is .lib
present as well.

>> So I get myself version 5.2.1 as you recommended
>>> I see that STLport released 5.2.1 recently
>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/stlport/files/
>> better late than never.
>> Rename folder to STLport, start over, just that the readme.msvc is not
>> contained in this version, which I guess I should still follow. So I
>> have to get myself the svn version again to read it alongside.
>> Anyway: Runs without error message in the end. (Can't find a build log
>> that would tell me if anything occurred in between, but I guess it would
>> have told in the end.)
>> Hurray!
> 
> so you built STLport successfully? well done! It is better not to rename 
> it, but to change the project properties. Renaming makes it more 
> difficult to keep track of the version.
Logical. I tried to find why I did this and I think I misunderstood in 
INSTALL: "Make sure you do not rename this "stlport" subdirectory - that 
may result in compilation errors." But the SUBdirectory stlport is meant.
But now I rename it back to STLport-5.2.1 that it probably was before.
Changed the two occurrences in the project properties. Corrected in 
moving_target.html

 2. libxmi-1.2
>> In the INSTALL file it says
>> 1. Do `./configure', `make', and `make install', as usual.  This will
>> install both libxmi and its header file, xmi.h.
>> but I'm not sure if "installing" is what I want to do in this case.
> 
> these are standard instruction for Linux/Unix. They don't work for MSVC. 
> Also IIRC you just want to unpack it there, not necessarily 
> build/install it. But I may be wrong. I'm currently on Linux and it's 
> late. I shall look at my Windows box soon.

OK, let's keep this one for later.
Best regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Next GUI - take 2

[J. Schneider]

>> It may prove useful to implement something like skeleton deformation
>> as it is used in animation to warp the images, perhaps a fine tuning
>> the deformation to accommodate panoramas photographed without rotation
>> about the correct axes.
> 
> libpano13 has a morph-to-fit function which distorts the reprojected 
> image to force a 'perfect' alignment, but nona has never been 
> modified to support it.  It is a bit crude though, we have discussed 
> some kind of alternative fitting with a smooth spline patch but 
> nobody has written the code.

This is something I often miss with my badly shot handheld panos ...

regards
Joachim


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[hugin-ptx] Re: Next GUI - take 2

[J. Schneider]

Bart van Andel wrote:
> When this is done internally (e.g., as an intermediate kind of file),
> I don't see a problem. Hugin could just blend the images into an eqr
> and then remap later.
> 
> However I think the end user should be bothered with as little steps
> as possible to get the desired output. 
I support this. Usually I need only one projection in the end and I 
believe I can choose it quite well in the fast preview. Only cropping 
more precisely is done later with other tools. As long as I don't see 
anything of this intermediate step and it doesn't take too much 
additional time it is OK. (Of course, when I want different projections 
from one panorama I find it stupid to repeat remapping.)

> By the way, if cylindrical projection is the desired output, isn't
> there a risk of compressing the zenit and nadir too much when using
> eqr as an intermediate format? Just curious, [...]
Me too, that's what I fear as well. Isn't it a particular strength of PT 
to calculate *one* operation that has to be done to each pixel out of 
all the different deformations and transformations so there are no 
subsequent steps that might deteriorate quality?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Next GUI - take 2

[J. Schneider]

Tom Sharpless wrote: > I think it would be nice if W were actually based 
on a flow diagram,
> showing what you can (sanely) do -- and what you have already done --
> with the contents of the project at the current time.  That would
> encompass everything from project operations (load, save, apply
> settings...) to lens calibration to image processing details (align
> stack, correct TCA, ..., ..., ...) and of course you would click on
> active elements to drill down to the details.  Note: if you can
> display what has already been done, then you should be able to avoid
> doing it over again needlessly, when I push the Go button.

I can't tell about the way to program this, I'd just like to chip in 
with my suggestion from May 1st '09:
"[hugin-ptx] adapting the GUI for different workflows" ->
http://www.joachimschneider.info/hugin_workflow_assembly.gif (+ *.pdf).

Best regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Help\Question setting up dev instance

[J. Schneider]

> Thanks,
> 
> This is not the thread I had found and will follow that this weekend.
Fine, then we are two.

> Thanks!
> nick

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Flipping Photos Review

[J. Schneider]

AKS-Gmail-IMAP schrieb:
> ... It is not necessary to wait for the process to compare all 25 
> images in a project to the 26th image when you know only the Xth image 
> has points in common with the 26th. If you are using OS X, it is the 
> Command key that allows one to select multiple images in the list that 
> are non-consecutive.

This is more of a workaround than a workflow for everyday use.
Choosing consecutive images to get cps generated is generally OK but 
tedious if you have a simple one-row panorama. But in a (maybe 
hand-held) mosaic you don't want to spend your time on deciding which 
images might overlap a bit and which don't.
When I have problems like this (quite often) I try to find the wrong cps 
by sorting the cp table by e.g. left image number and then have a look 
which images are listed in the right image column. This way pairs that 
don't belong together are often quite easy to identify.
But now this should be even easier with the new feature of showing cp 
pairs as lines in the fast preview.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Flipping Photos Review

[J. Schneider]

> It already exists. 
> 
I believe I used Alexandre Jenny's Autopano on the command line for this 
purpose. And generally it worked quite well, as long as panoramas didn't 
contain too similar photos.
Anyway I would like to try those Panotools-Scripts. But to me it looks 
like they are not ready to run on Windows (with perl installed) right 
out of the box. Could someone give me a hint about what to do to make 
them usable on Windows?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Next GUI - take 2

[J. Schneider]

> I think that what I am imagining would perhaps fit on the Stitcher tab
> as some sort of expert-mode that would allow the user to select from
> the
> Remapper
> Fuser
> Blender
> and run just one of them ... then intervene in some way before running
> just another one and so on also perhaps setting are adjusting the
> files to which the step would be applied.
> 
> This would be useful for people working on large projects producing
> huge high resolution output files (or at least projects that are large
> compared to the user's computing power) where a full Hugin cycle may
> take several hours.

I have wished this several times when my computer crashed during a 
stitch and I could at least have saved the remapping step if I had been 
able to start over at the blending step. (Not possible on the command 
line with cropped intermedaite files.) Neither hugin nor the batch 
processor allow this - you are just asked if the existing images should 
be overwritten, not if they should be reused.
regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: traditional preview

[J. Schneider]

Hi all,
sorry for stepping in so late, I just would like to stress a few things 
that are important to me:

Single buttons for images should definitely stay! They could be more 
space saving if desired. They are very important for my workflow to be 
easily accessible and visible all at the same time. I would hate to find 
them in dropdown menus like in the stitcher tab.
(Of course I haven't got a clue how these single buttons are handled in 
very big projects like I never have myself.)

Buttons that indicate a mode that the preview window is in or what a 
click will do (e.g. drag, crop) and that can be switched on or off are 
very good tools to keep the user oriented about what he is doing. I 
guess for beginners they are even more helpful.
Button size could be reduced quite a lot and text could be wrapped. 
Currently they are spaced with about 2 button-widths of whitespace in 
between (at least on Windows). So I think you could fit even more 
buttons even on small screens. (Is there any design guideline that says 
down to how few pixel width hugin should be working?)

I am not sure if I like the palettes approach. They tend to be where you 
don't need them and I guess I'm going to move them around all the time.

What I would like to have is a combined window containing the preview in 
e.g. the upper half and the rest, tabbed as is, in the lower. With a 
movable divider between. As an option. I find it important to be able to 
have e.g. the cp tab full screen.

A first (easy?) step to make the preview the hub could be to make the 
existing shortcuts of the normal hugin window work from within the 
preview window.


Yuval Levy wrote:
> good point. maybe merging them into one single view is not a good idea 
> on the back-end, even if it looks good in the front end.
But maybe back-ends can be kept separate and their output directed to 
the one preview window, depending on the mode it is set to? (Thoughts of 
a non-programmer)

> people have expressed enough views why it is worth keeping the 
> traditional preview, or at least its features. Any other ideas how this 
> can be done without maintaining the current confusing situation of two 
> previews at the same hierarchical level?
Here I agree, it is confusing and that's why I find merging a really 
good idea from the front-end view.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Oskar Sander schrieb:
> I'd like to set up a Windows hugin development environment, but the 
> terrifying length of this thread is somewhat deterrent. 
> 
> Do you recon your moving target is closing in?
Well, I don't have the slightest clue. Any step in one of the "branches" 
can yield more steps. Or end and lead back to "trunk", i.e. the main 
objective to build hugin. But if you just follow the actual steps 
(http://www.joachimschneider.info/moving_target.html) and leave out all 
my errors, mistakes and misapprehensions it is not so much you actually 
have to do (to reach whatever intermediate result it is that I have got).

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hallo Yuval,
> I hope the move went well and you did not have the same weather we're 
> having here (pouring rain, and cold wind).
Only on the road, so all went well.

First something you mentioned at the end of your mail:
 > I am starting to lose track of things. Maybe time for an initial
 > summary of the steps, starting from the SDK?
Well, if even you lose track ...
I had that same feeling as well.

 > did you document the instructions for this in the wiki (do you edit as
 > you go along) ?
To be honest, at the moment I feel it is a little too much trial and
error to document it "live" in the wiki. But I did this locally to
keep track of all the ramifications. Without having a real overview of
what I am doing this is really difficult.
I wrote it down and uploaded it to 
http://www.joachimschneider.info/moving_target.html
As you see, I always have to remind myself what it is that I am 
building, e.g. now it is a dependency of enblend (and not directly of 
hugin).


Now I go on and secondly, I would like to solve one misunderstanding.

>> ..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff  NO but now changed to
>>..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\jpeg
Looks like I didn't read something correctly, took a wrong line or
something like this. So how was it before? I re-entered a line
..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff for the moment (though I might change it later)
and left ..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\jpeg in the list. So the list now
begins with
..\..\STLport-trunk\stlport
..\include
..\..\include
..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\tiff
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\jpeg and ... png, zlib,

I guess I fixed this. (But just to understand it better: If tiff.h is 
what is needed and it is in the mentioned wxWidgests folder, then 
changing the entry to that folder should generally work?)

Now trying to build libtiff:

> * start a MSVC shell

>   nmake /f makefile.vc
> 
> It will fail (while building some tools), but all we need is the library 
> and it is produced before.
What is it that I need? The newly created stuff inside libtiff? There is
a new libtiff.dll compiled.
Fine!

>> 1. STLport
 ..\..\STLport-trunk\stlport   NO
>>> ok, we'll need to build that one. Instructions for 64 bit are at 
>>> 
>>> we'll need to adapt them for 32bit.
>> Suppose this is just exchanging "x64" with "x32"
>>> ... get them with SVN from 
>>> https://stlport.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/stlport/trunk/STLport 
>> OK. Rev 6512. I have got STLport now in my huginbase. Is it later to be 
>> renamed STLport-trunk?
> 
> yes.
> 
>>> the instructions to build it are in the INSTALL file, and make use of 
>>> nmake (that you have installed with MSVC).
>> What I read on the wiki page mentioned above seems to be the same in 
>> short. Am I going to build the STLport iostreams library?
> 
> Is that what is said in stloport-trunk\INSTALL ?
There are instructions on "Unpacking and installing STLport" and then
they say "If you DO NOT plan to use STLport iostreams and/or locale
implementation but just the STL, you do not have to build the library."
The separate instuctions to build this follow.
Now I understand that this is the actual build process and the first
steps are just preliminary actions. So building the library is not an 
option in a two-part-process but it is the main thing.
And I go on.

>> Anyway on the MSVC command line I get:
>> setenv: The command was either misspelled or couldn't be found.
>> Looks like I started somehow completely wrong.
> 
> where in the instructions did you find "setenv" ? have you followed the 
> instructions in stlport-trunk\INSTALL ?
No, this was from the wiki. I was confuse by two instructions.

And after I changed into the STLport directory even configure --help
yields a result - I didn't understand that this command is is not part
of MSVC. OK, so
configure msvc9
gives output that looks OK, though  doc\README.msvc says it is configure
-c msvcX (where X is the version), but the document is for an older
version (2005).
Same with the instruction in readme.windows: If I omit the "-c" it
states that the desired compiler has been chosen, but
"Das Sprungziel - opt_xtra wurde nicht gefunden." seems to mean that it
did not understand
   --extra-cxxflag "/D_WIN32_WINNT=0x0501" in
   configure msvc9 --extra-cxxflag "/D_WIN32_WINNT=0x0501"
But the instructions suggest that they are most important for older
versions of windows and since I use XP for building STLport and the same
OS for using STLport for building other software this seems to be OK.
So I leave it at
configure msvc9
and continue with the README.msvc instructions:
"cd "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio\VC98\Bin"" seems to be
"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\bin" in my case.

The problem with the next step
cd C:\STLport\build\lib (d:\huginbase\STLport\build\lib)
and
nmake /fmsvc.mak install
is that my \build\lib folder is empty. No msvc.

[hugin-ptx] Re: Oups, I've added two strings!

[J. Schneider]

Yuval Levy schrieb:
> J. Schneider wrote:
>> Can't start system's web browser
>> top boundary must be smaller than bottom
>> left boundary must be smaller than right
>>
>> as new untranslated strings.
>> The first one is no problem, but can you explain where the other two are 
>> used?
> 
> it's when setting the crop in the Stitcher tab. The top value must be 
> smaller than the bottom one; and the left value must be smaller than the 
> right one.


Shouldn't the English text be "Top boundary *value* must ..." ? Anyway 
now I understand and I will translate accordingly.

One more question:
"Checking for outlying control points": What is outlying exactly? 
Outside an image? Outside an image area where it would belong?

By the way, is there a new feature to remove absurd cps? All those 
strings suggest it. Did I miss a thread on the list?
There is a statistical method mentioned. I did not see anything of a 
logical method (like "if cp 1 is lft of cp 2 in img 1 it can't be right 
of it in img 2"). To me as a non-programmer this seems to be the most 
obvious approach.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Oups, I've added two strings!

[J. Schneider]

> Fair enough, though I'd like to remove the crop stuff from the 
> Stitcher tab at some point, I can't imagine that anyone uses it 
> there.
Sometimes I have to - because it is impossible to reset a crop border
to 0.
Once you cropped and play around with field of view and different 
projections this switching may decrease the size of the rectangle when 
necessary but it is not increased again when it is possible again. 
Trying to drag the rectangle border onto the visual image border stops a 
few display pixels before the image border. You have to reset the value 
by hand.
(I know, I should file this as a proper bug report.)

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Oups, I've added two strings!

[J. Schneider]

> Hi all, particularly translators.
> 
> I have done something that is not very nice IMO: i've just added two new 
> strings to the release branch (and to trunk, but that's less critical) 
> after syncing the PO files and calling for translation.

What I can see is

Can't start system's web browser
top boundary must be smaller than bottom
left boundary must be smaller than right

as new untranslated strings.
The first one is no problem, but can you explain where the other two are 
used?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hi Yuv,

real life interfered a bit in the meantime but now I am back. And next 
weekend I'm going to help my sister move all across Germany and won't be 
at home much, but anyway, step by step ...

> I'm looking at the SDK (20090509, from Guido) right now, and I see the 
> following folders:
I don't know what I did to my SDK before but after downloading anew it 
looks like this (right column is mine):

> * wxWidgets-2.9.10  wxWidgets-2.8.10
> * UnxUtils  OK
> * OpenEXR   OK
> * libxml2-2.7.3 OK
> * libpano (you'll replace ...   OK
> * glew  OK
> * gettext   OK
> * expat-2.0.1   OK
> * exiv2-0.18.1  OK
> * exiftool  OK
> * DeployOK
> * boost_1_39_0  OK
> * autopano-sift-C   OK
So the only difference is the wxWidgets version. Don't ask me why it 
wasn't there before.

So before checking all the dependencies again I just tried compiling 
enblend again. Now the errors are:
For vigra_impex:
1>.\tiff.cxx(83) : fatal error C1083: Datei (Include) kann nicht 
geöffnet werden: "tiff.h": No such file or directory

I have already chnged that one dependeny to ..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\tiff
as you suggest below. Somehow it is still not found.

for enblend:
2>d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(154) : error C2018: Unbekanntes 
Zeichen '0x40'
2>d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(154) : error C2018: Unbekanntes 
Zeichen '0x40'
2>d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(154) : error C2146: 
Syntaxfehler: Fehlendes ';' vor Bezeichner 'icUInt8Number'
2>d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(154) : error C4430: Fehlender 
Typspezifizierer - int wird angenommen. Hinweis: "default-int" wird von 
C++ nicht unterstützt.
and the same forth and forth.

   --

So now I recheck the dependencies and there is a bit more present:

..\..\STLport-trunk\stlport   NO
..\includeYES
..\..\include NO
..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff  NO but now changed to
   ..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\jpeg
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\jpeg   now YES
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\pngnow YES
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\zlib   now YES
..\..\boost_1_39_0now YES
..\..\lcms-1.18\include   YES
..\..\libxmi-1.2  NO
. of course
..\..\glew\includenow YES
..\..\glut\includeNO

 >> * Repeat the same exercise with Configuration Properties -> Linker ->
 >> General and the Additional Library Directories property.

..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\lib\vc_lib now YES
..\..\lcms-1.18\Lib\MSYES
..\..\libxmi-1.2\Release  NO
..\..\STLport-trunk\lib   NO
..\..\Deploy\lib\Release  now YES
..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff  NO
..\..\glew\libnow YES
..\..\glut\ReleaseNO


So now I go on getting what is missing as you describe. I'll begin them 
all and will see for each one where I get stuck.

  --

1. STLport
>> ..\..\STLport-trunk\stlport   NO
> 
> ok, we'll need to build that one. Instructions for 64 bit are at 
> 
> we'll need to adapt them for 32bit.
Suppose this is just exchanging "x64" with "x32"
> ... get them with SVN from 
> https://stlport.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/stlport/trunk/STLport 
OK. Rev 6512. I have got STLport now in my huginbase. Is it later to be 
renamed STLport-trunk?

> the instructions to build it are in the INSTALL file, and make use of 
> nmake (that you have installed with MSVC).
What I read on the wiki page mentioned above seems to be the same in 
short. Am I going to build the STLport iostreams library?
Anyway on the MSVC command line I get:
setenv: The command was either misspelled or couldn't be found.
Looks like I started somehow completely wrong.

  --

2. libxmi-1.2
>> ..\..\libxmi-1.2  NO
> 
> 
> You can download it from 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuwin32/files/libxmi/1.2-1/libxmi-1.2-1-src.zip/download
OK, now I have libxmi-1.2-1 in my huginbase,

> there is a libxmi.sln inside it, IIRC you just need to start it. 
No. But the wiki says, I have to apply the libxmi-1.2.diff patch.
Where do I get it and how to apply a patch?

  --

3. glut
>> ..\..\glut\includeNO
> 
> http://www.xmission.com/~nate/glut.html - I am not sure if just 
> unpacking the bin.zip file inside huginbase will be enough. try that. if 
> it does not work, get src.zip, there are instructions inside. 
Got the bin.zip (glut-3.7.6-bin.zip) and extracted to 
huginbase\glut-3.7.6-bin. We'll see later if it works.

  --

So far so good. If you understand German: Mühsam ernährt sich das 
Eichhörnchen!" is what we say about such 

[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hallo Yuval,

>> I downloaded it and installed it to C:\Programme\wxWidgets-2.8.10.
> not good, please uninstall. 
Done.

> the default binaries of wxWidgets are not 
> ready for Hugin. They must be recompiled. And Hugin and Enblend expect 
> them at a different location than where the binaries install.
OK, I'm going to get myself the source.

> You should have wxWidgets-2.8.10 inside the SDK. If you don't let me 
> know and I'll guide you through the process of updating your SDK with 
> wxWidgets-2.8.10
I guess we'll have to do this. I looked for tiff.h and wx*.* inside 
huginbase and there is nothing.

Probably we should structure the instructions on the wiki like
"Ideally you get these tools and start compiling ... (whole process)
and in case dependency 1/2/... is missing/broken get it here/here/... 
(describing these additional processes in later sections or on separate 
pages)." But we can think about this later.

>> -> D:\huginbase\enblend\lcms-1.18\.
> no. you want to leave it D:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\ 
Done.

>>> * inside lcms-1.18 there is a Projects folder. Select the MSVC2008 
>>> project. Start it.
>>> * in the configuration manager, select to build lcms only. You do not 
>>> need the other tools (that will raise an error because they don't find 
>>> some dependencies)
>> This results in 
>> D:\huginbase\enblend\lcms-1.18\Projects\VC2008\LibRelease\*obj and 
>> ...\vc90.idb
>> and a log with 0 errors and 41 warnings like
>> ..\..\src\cmsio1.c(964) : warning C4063: case "-1804014080" ist kein 
>> gültiger Wert für den Schalter der Enumeration "icTagTypeSignature".
>>  d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(352): Siehe Deklaration 
>> von 'icTagTypeSignature'
> 
> good. now rinse and repeat with lcms-1.18 at the right location ;-)
Done. (I'm feeling so fresh and clean now ;-) Still same warnings, but 
no errors. I leave the result where it is.

>>> once you built lcms, continue with building enblend.
>>  [Tried to move my directoy wxWidgets-2.8.10 to a place
>> where MSVC finds it to compile enblend]
> no. please don't move around SDK folders. we will fix what is in your 
> folders relatively to them.
OK. But for now I uninstalled it anyway and I am going to compile it 
according to your instructions.

> * right-click on enblend in the property manager (on the left hand side 
> of the IDE). Look at its properties.
> 
> * Navigate on the left hand side to Configuration Properties -> C/C++ -> 
> General
> 
> * On the right and side there is an Additional Include Directories property.
> 
> * Click on it, then click on the ... button on its right to edit it. Do 
> not edit (unless you know what you are doing), just read the values that 
> are there and post them here.
 >
> * These values are folders. You want to check that these folders exist, 
> relative to enblend\src
So ..\.. is huginbase and e.g.
..\..\STLport-trunk\stlport would be
huginbase\STLport-trunk\stlport. OK
> 
> * You already have most of them from the SDK, I suspect one or two may 
> be missing. Which ones?

..\..\STLport-trunk\stlport   NO
..\includeYES
..\..\include NO
..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff  NO
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\jpeg   all wxWidgets are missing but you are
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\pnggoing to tell me what to do about
..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\zlib   this.
..\..\boost_1_39_0NO
..\..\lcms-1.18\include   YES
..\..\libxmi-1.2  NO
. of course
..\..\glew\includeNO
..\..\glut\includeNO

> * Repeat the same exercise with Configuration Properties -> Linker -> 
> General and the Additional Library Directories property.

..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\lib\vc_lib NO, see above
..\..\lcms-1.18\Lib\MSYES
..\..\libxmi-1.2\Release  NO
..\..\STLport-trunk\lib   NO
..\..\Deploy\lib\Release  NO
..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff  NO
..\..\glew\libNO
..\..\glut\ReleaseNO

Quite a few missing.  Do I really need all of them?

> you are much closer to success than you think; but you are also very 
> excited and willing to try things that may break your builds. Don't 
> worry, keep playing, the worse case scenario is that you'll have to 
> unpack a fresh SDK; and sync a fresh enblend checkout; and follow the 
> instruction from the beginning again.
That's why I don't worry.

open-source-itching
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Canon 7D or SONY Alpha 850 - which one would you buy?

[J. Schneider]

> Pentax has IMO the so far best implementation, but is also limited 
> (reduced x range).
My ("outdated") K10D makes 5 steps of 2EV maximum.

Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Yuval Levy schrieb:
> Hallo Joachim,
> 
> J. Schneider wrote:
>> it would be a nice idea to try building hugin myself.
> 
> good idea! I'll be happy to mentor you. would it be OK for you, in 
> exchange for the mentoring, to use your experience and improve the Wiki 
> instructions?
I'd be glad to help there.

> I assume you're on 
> <http://wiki.panotools.org/Build_Hugin_for_Windows_with_SDK> 
Yes.

> If it is OK for you, I suggest we do this mentoring session "live" on 
> this mailing list, so others can profit too. 
That's fine for me.

>> I created the directory D:\huginbase\enblend
>> Cloned the repository, result D:\huginbase\enblend\enblend.
> 
> this means that you installed all the tools, as well as Guido's SDK?
I did. Just not wxWidgets that you mention later. Should this also be in 
the list of tools to install?
I downloaded it and installed it to C:\Programme\wxWidgets-2.8.10.

>> Now I opened enblend_msvc2003.sln.
> what version of Visual Studio do you have? the file to open is open 
> huginbase/enblend/enblend_msvc2008.sln
I have "Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition". I just didn't look closely 
enough. Now I took ...2008.sln. (But that doesn't change the result.) 
Strangely it cannot be opened by double clicking, but when dragged onto 
the MSVC window it works.

> the repository is currently in a broken state - a recent change breaks 
> the MSVC (and the new CMake) build. Only autotools works.
I don't know what autotools is, but I follow your steps to revert back 
to the unbroken stage.
> the workaround is to step a little bit back in time,  > ...

> This will bring your enblend tree back in time. Now you can 
> continue with the build.
Done. "Update to revision" is the command in my TortoiseHG installation. 
And 523 the rev. no.

>> Changed the target configuration to 'release'.
> There should be multiple configurations. ...
 > If you have a good GPU, you may try to build the
> version with GPU. And if you often run out of disk space, build the 
> version without ImageCache. Also if your CPU supports SSE2, build the 
> version with SSE2. For example you can build "Release SSE2,GPU".
The GPU option doesn't work with my Intel 945 Chipset but I needn't use 
it and I guess my Core2Duo T5500 (1.66GHz) supports SSE2, so "Release 
SSE2,GPU" is what I chose.

> *but* before doing this, you need to complete the SDK. The current SDK 
> lacks some of the dependencies to build enblend.
OK, this should be included in the wiki unless it is not fixed in the SDK.
> IIRC it is lcms that is missing (or outdated; 1.17 in the SDK and 1.18 
> referred to from the MSVC project files).
Looks like missing. In D:\huginbase\enblend I don't find any lcms*.* file.

> * download the source from http://www.littlecms.com/lcms-1.18a.zip
> * unpack inside the SDK folder
So I have D:\huginbase\enblend containing enblend\ ...
No, I think first I throw all that stuff from 
D:\huginbase\enblend\enblend\*.* one level up and resync it to be sure.
OK, now I have D:\huginbase\enblend\ with the enblend repository .hg in 
it and
D:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\. Probably I should move it inside ...\enblend.
-> D:\huginbase\enblend\lcms-1.18\.

> * inside lcms-1.18 there is a Projects folder. Select the MSVC2008 
> project. Start it.
> * in the configuration manager, select to build lcms only. You do not 
> need the other tools (that will raise an error because they don't find 
> some dependencies)
This results in 
D:\huginbase\enblend\lcms-1.18\Projects\VC2008\LibRelease\*obj and 
...\vc90.idb
and a log with 0 errors and 41 warnings like
..\..\src\cmsio1.c(964) : warning C4063: case "-1804014080" ist kein 
gültiger Wert für den Schalter der Enumeration "icTagTypeSignature".
 d:\huginbase\lcms-1.18\include\icc34.h(352): Siehe Deklaration 
von 'icTagTypeSignature'

> once you built lcms, continue with building enblend.
Do I understand correctly that MSVC should realize wxWidgets is 
installed and use the TIFF/JPEG/PNG libraries from there?
Obviously not. MSVC still complains. If I understood the output

Die temporäre Datei "d:\huginbase\enblend\src\vigra_impex\Release (GPU, 
SSE2)\RSP0160562384.rsp" wird erstellt. Inhalt:
[
/Ox /Ob2 /Oi /Ot /GL /I "..\..\..\STLport-trunk\stlport" /I "..\include" 
/I "..\..\include" /I "..\..\..\tiff-3.8.2\libtiff" /I 
"..\..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\jpeg" /I 
"..\..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\png" /I 
"..\..\..\wxWidgets-2.8.10\src\zlib" /I "..\..\..\boost_1_39_0" /I 
"..\..\..\lcms-1.17\include" /I "..\..\..\libxmi-1.2" /I "." /I 
"..\..\..\Deploy\include" /D "VIGRA_S

[hugin-ptx] Re: 2009.2.0 release notes proof-reading/trnaslation

[J. Schneider]

> Yes, the list may need extending.  What EXIF info do others think 
> would be useful to display?
> 
> GPS would be very useful if available.
Inside hugin I wouldn't need it, but I would like it to be transferred 
to the final pano.

Useful for me:
- ISO
- focal length multiplier (though available on Lens tab)
- File date AND capture date I find sensible, too.

regards
Joachim


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[hugin-ptx] (Probably very basic) help needed for build process on WinXP: missing files?

[J. Schneider]

Hi,
after I installed TortoiseSVN to edit translations directly, I thought
it would be a nice idea to try building hugin myself.
Though I am not a programmer.
The explanation in the wiki is not bad, but even the very first step fails.
Maybe someone can point me to where to read further instead of mentoring 
me click-by-click on this list.

System is WinXP SP3; unfortunately I installed Visual Studio in German, 
so I have to translate backwards here.

I created the directory D:\huginbase\enblend
Cloned the repository, result D:\huginbase\enblend\enblend.

Now I opened enblend_msvc2003.sln.
Changed the target configuration to 'release'.
Compiled (I guess the 4th command from top in the build ("Erstellen") 
menu).
I suppose I should get
D:\huginbase\enblend\enblend\INSTALLDIR but I get nothing.

I guess some of the entries about missing files in the 2 build protocols 
contain the solution.

Could someone give me a hint?
best regards
Joachim


D:\huginbase\enblend\enblend\src\vigra_impex\Release\BuildLog.htm:

Kompilieren...
cl : command line warning D9035 : The option "Wp64" is deprecated and 
will be removed in one of the next versions.
tiff.cxx
.\tiff.cxx(83) : fatal error C1083: File (Include) could not be opened: 
"tiff.h": No such file or directory
png.cxx
.\png.cxx(66) : fatal error C1083: File (Include) could not be opened: 
"png.h": No such file or directory
jpeg.cxx
.\jpeg.cxx(59) : fatal error C1083: File (Include) could not be opened: 
"jpeglib.h": No such file or directory
exr.cxx
.\exr.cxx(53) : fatal error C1083: File (Include) could not be opened: 
"ImfRgbaFile.h": No such file or directory

D:\huginbase\enblend\enblend\src\Release\BuildLog.htm:

Kompilieren...
cl : command line warning D9035 : The option "Wp64" is deprecated and 
will be removed in one of the next versions.
getopt_long.c
getopt.c
Kompilieren...
cl : command line warning D9035 : The option "Wp64" is deprecated and 
will be removed in one of the next versions.
enblend.cc
.\enblend.cc(74) : fatal error C1083: File (Include) could not be 
opened: "tiffconf.h": No such file or directory

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Expected Behavior

[J. Schneider]

> after opening the dialog I have to delete the 0. Instead the '0' should
> be marked, i.e. typing then just replaces the default value. 
Yes!
> This should
> work the same way in both other fields when I hit the 'tab' key once or
> twice. Also by moving in the other direction using 'shift'+'tab'.
Does Tab work on other platforms? On Windows it doesn't.

> The 'OK' button should be active, i.e. hitting enter would apply the
> newly set values and close the dialog.
> 
> A third button for Yuv could be named 'Apply' (in German: 'Anwenden' or
> 'Übernehmen'). It works like 'OK' but doesn't close the dialog.
Yes!

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: translation

[J. Schneider]

RizThon schrieb:
> I just checked Poedit, and it's possible to add a comment to each 
> string, you just need to check "View / Show comment window". To be able 
> to edit that comment window you might need to go to "File / 
> Preferences..." and check "Comment window is editable" in the "Editor" tab.
> 
> It would definitely be a great help to translators to have some useful 
> comments. We could at least have a few keywords to use in that comment 
> window, like "title", "short description", "long description", "button", 
> "non GUI" or things like that, to at least know how the string we're 
> translating is being used. 
Yes! I support this idea strongly. I always have the same problems when 
translating to German.

> Also a translator could add some comments on 
> his/her translation to explain, if needed, why he/she translated it that 
> way.
Or give feedback about mistakes in the original.

> When / How should we use shortcuts? 
In addition to your question I would like to know, whether the marking 
by "&" actually affects the behaviour of the GUI or if the & has to be 
placed according to given letters that are hard coded elsewhere.

> Is it possible to see Hugin's GUI in an IDE and translate the strings ...
What is an IDE?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Sloooow Moving

[J. Schneider]

>> Uncheck "auto fine tune". I don't
>> understand why this option is set as a default. Or why hugin isn't able
>> to remember that I normally don't want to use this option.
> 
> +1
> 
> This is the button I uncheck *every* time I start Hugin.

Strange. I usually have it checked, but now I tried: Unchecking auto 
estimate is remembered across sessions, unchecking auto fine tune isn't.
(Windows.)

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: problem with align_image_stack

[J. Schneider]

> You can control the number of points with the align_image_stack -c 
> parameter:
> 
> -f %v -c %p -p %o %i
> 
> ..but according to the align_image_stack usage this will actually 
> generate 25x the specified number of points, i.e. specify 10 and you 
> will get 250 points, specify 1 and you will 25 points.

Thank you - I could have read the help text more carefully.

I had read "following patterns will be substituted before running". But 
it took me quite a while to understand that arguments with % don't have 
to do anything with arguments with -.

Can align_image_stack deal with whole panotools scripts (%s) as 
autopano-sift-c can meanwhile?
(By the way: --maxmatches %p --projection %f,%v %o %i is still the 
default for autopano-sift-c  - wouldn't be %s be better because of 
command line length in Windows and other things as recently discussed?)


regards
Joachim


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[hugin-ptx] Re: enblend --verbose --version / enblend image cache

[J. Schneider]

> J. Schneider wrote:
>> hugin 2009.2.0.4352 build by Ad.
> 
> Afaik Ad does not yet put the new Enblend 4.0 pre-release in his 
> installer. 
Yes.
> The manual mentioned on Harry's site is for the 4.0 
> pre-release that is bundled with the OSX version of Hugin.
This manual is for Enblend (version 3.2-staging-rev343, 12 August 2009),
it says. But there may have been more changes in between.

Anyway the confusion stays about which entries get respected in which 
case and combination and why.
At the moment I believe:
Those in the preferences should be valid for all new projects and all 
projects that don't get individual settings. It seems to be a bug that 
they are not respected.
Those accessible from the stitcher tab should be project specific and 
override the general ones from the preferences. If so this should be be 
clearly understandable from the GUI text. At the moment these settings 
are kept between sessions - which is not what I expected but it's a 
workaround for the preferences that are not respected.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] enblend --verbose --version / enblend image cache

[J. Schneider]

Hi,
me again with some more confusion about options and settings.

I read in the new enblend/enfuse documentation 
(http://panorama.dyndns.org/EandE-documentation/enblend.html#Tuning-Memory-Usage;
 
thanks al lot for this!) about how to tune enblend's options to suit my 
2GB RAM system.
The documentation says
"To find out whether your version uses the image cache say
  enblend --verbose --version."
Unfortunately this gives an error
  enblend: illegal option -- verbose.
All other combinations with -verbose and -v and -version result in 
analogous errors.
My enblend is version 3.2 with a file date 16.03.2009 23:06 (windows 
version).

Anyway:
If my enblend help text contains the options -m and -b, shouldn't it 
have this compiled in? If it is not compiled in then it should not 
display this help text.

Next question: I just want to try, so I specify in the preferences
-l29 -a -z -m512 -b1024.
When I stitch I can't see -m512 -b1024 in the commandline displayed in 
the verbose output window.
Next try: set the "Use alternative Enblend program" checkbox because I 
don't know if the arguments specified here are respected if the checkbox 
is not checked. After all the "Default arguments" line is indented as if 
it were only applied if the checkbox is checked. Same result: not passed 
to enblend.
Next try: put -m512 -b1024 additionally in the options dialogue box that 
can be accessed from the stitcher tab. Are these options project 
specific, do they add to those specified in the preferences (if they 
were respected at all), do they override the preferences, is this 
another way to access the same preferences that are accessed via the 
preferences dialogue? Anyway: The arguments are passed and there is no 
error message, so I believe it principally works. Now I have to test 
with more than a pair of tiny test images if they actually improve 
anything (in my case: responsiveness of the system while blending).

hugin 2009.2.0.4352 build by Ad.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: gsoc2009_deghosting call for testing

[J. Schneider]

> other distributions but I'll still welcome reports from other
> distributions
>   Windows – with Thomas' help it have been made to compile on widows

If you can make the windows build available I would like to test them on 
some fresh test cases that I have got in my pipeline anyway.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: problem with align_image_stack

[J. Schneider]

Bruno Postle schrieb:
> Yes, try this entry in the Control point generator preferences:
> 
> Align image stack
> align_image_stack
> -f %v -p %o %i

Thank you! it works. Just the number of cps to generate per pair (set on 
the image tab) is not handed to align_image_stack, so it always adds 
several hundred.
I thought with would be done with %p instead of -p but this seems to 
have been a misunderstanding of how this parameter thing works.
Error -1.

regards
Joachim


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[hugin-ptx] Re: well, I didn't know that

[J. Schneider]

michael crane schrieb:
> http://munin.projects.linpro.no/

And "Hugin" means "thought"
Well, I knew - but therefore I was always wondering why the program got 
this name. Could anybody tell me?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: enfuse error with custom parameters

[J. Schneider]

Bruno Postle schrieb:
> On Sun 13-Sep-2009 at 19:49 +0200, J. Schneider wrote:
>> I encountered a problem when I specified custom parameters for enfuse
>> via the button on the stitcher tab. I wanted different weights for
>> exposure, contrast, and saturation, therefor I entered
>> --wExposure=1 --wSaturation=0.8 --wContrast=0.1
> 
> It looks like these parameters are being added to both enfuse and 
> enblend:
Ah! Could have seen this myself.

>> C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin\ 0.8\bin\enfuse --wExposure=1 
>> --wSaturation=0.8 --wContrast=0.1 -o 2009-08-26\ -\ 
>> 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 10-08-01_stack_ldr_.tif 2009-08-26\ -\ 
>> 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 10-08-01_exposure_layers_.tif 2009-08-26\ 
>> -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 10-08-01_exposure_layers_0003.tif Loading 
>> next image: 2009-08-26 - 5473+0-4-5472_fused 
>> 10-08-01_exposure_layers_.tif Loading next image: 2009-08-26 - 
>> 5473+0-4-5472_fused 10-08-01_exposure_layers_0003.tif
> 
> enblend fails if you supply --wExposure=1 etc... :
> 
>> C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin\ 0.8\bin\enblend --compression LZW 
>> -l29 -a -z --wExposure=1 --wSaturation=0.8 --wContrast=0.1 
>> -f4269x2665 -o 2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 
>> 10-08-01_fused.tif 2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 
>> 10-08-01_stack_ldr_.tif
> 
> The error message you see is from enblend.  Did you add these 
> parameters to both by mistake or is this a hugin bug?

I am pretty sure I put it only in the enfuse options box. I wonder if I 
set any output type that needs enblend. Have to check that.
- Tried to check, but don't have the old project anymore. Couldn't 
reproduce with "fused and blended pano" in another project.
I'll try with some more projects when I have something to fuse.

regards
Joachim


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[hugin-ptx] Re: problem with align_image_stack

[J. Schneider]

> On Sun 13-Sep-2009 at 19:51 +0200, J. Schneider wrote:
>> align_image_stacks which has the default parameters
>> -f %v `[ %f == 2 ] || [ %f == 3 ] && echo -n ' -e'` -p %o %i
>> set in the preferences.
> 
> Neither the trunk or the 2009.2 branch has this [ %f == 2 ] stuff as 
> it could only work on unix systems and is completely untested (I 
> haven't had a chance to test it myself and it was my idea).
> 
> Do you still get it if you 'Load defaults' in the preferences?
If I do so the align_image_stack entry disappears from the list!

should the parts in brackets be just ommited?

>> Meanwhile I will preassemble the stacks on the command line into 4
>> .ptos. Wasn't there some helper app to merge pto files?
> 
> ptomerge is part of Panotools::Script.
Thanks!

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] problem with align_image_stack

[J. Schneider]

Hi again, next problem:
I am using the newest windows build 4352 and I am trying to make an
enfused pano of 4 images x 3 exposures. I wanted to prealign the stacks
with the "Create control points" button on the Images tab and
align_image_stacks which has the default parameters
-f %v `[ %f == 2 ] || [ %f == 3 ] && echo -n ' -e'` -p %o %i
set in the preferences.
It says: "invalid parameter:" and quits.
What's wrong?

Meanwhile I will preassemble the stacks on the command line into 4
.ptos. Wasn't there some helper app to merge pto files?

regards
Joachim


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[hugin-ptx] enfuse error with custom parameters

[J. Schneider]

Hi all,
I encountered a problem when I specified custom parameters for enfuse 
via the button on the stitcher tab. I wanted different weights for 
exposure, contrast, and saturation, therefor I entered
--wExposure=1 --wSaturation=0.8 --wContrast=0.1

The error message was:
illegal option -- wExposure=1
make: *** [2009-08-26 - 5473+0-4-5472_fused 10-08-01_fused.tif] Error 1

So there was added a superfluous space between "--" and "wExposure".

Did I miss anything or is this a bug I should file in the tracker? (Is 
there a separate one for enfuse?)

regards
Joachim


Complete output:

C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin\ 0.8\bin\nona  -z PACKBITS -r ldr -e 
13.4616 -m TIFF_m -o 2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 
10-08-01_exposure_layers_ -i 0 d:\tmp\hug59.tmp
C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin\ 0.8\bin\nona  -z PACKBITS -r ldr -e 
11.9366 -m TIFF_m -o 2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 
10-08-01_exposure_layers_ -i 3 d:\tmp\hug59.tmp
C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin\ 0.8\bin\enfuse --wExposure=1 
--wSaturation=0.8 --wContrast=0.1 -o 2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 
10-08-01_stack_ldr_.tif 2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 
10-08-01_exposure_layers_.tif 2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 
10-08-01_exposure_layers_0003.tif
Loading next image: 2009-08-26 - 5473+0-4-5472_fused 
10-08-01_exposure_layers_.tif
Loading next image: 2009-08-26 - 5473+0-4-5472_fused 
10-08-01_exposure_layers_0003.tif
Using 9 blending levels

Generating Gaussian pyramid:  g0 g1 g2 g3 g4 g5 g6 g7 g8
Generating Laplacian pyramid: l0 l1 l2 l3 l4 l5 l6 l7 l8
Generating Gaussian pyramid:  g0 g1 g2 g3 g4 g5 g6 g7 g8
Generating Gaussian pyramid:  g0 g1 g2 g3 g4 g5 g6 g7 g8
Generating Laplacian pyramid: l0 l1 l2 l3 l4 l5 l6 l7 l8
Generating Gaussian pyramid:  g0 g1 g2 g3 g4 g5 g6 g7 g8
Collapsing Laplacian pyramid: l8 l7 l6 l5 l4 l3 l2 l1 l0
C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin\ 0.8\bin\exiftool 
-overwrite_original_in_place -TagsFromFile D:\users\a\Eigene\ 
Dateien\Eigene\ Bilder\_EINGANG\2009-08-ff\ K1 image files updated
C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin\ 0.8\bin\enblend --compression LZW -l29 -a 
-z --wExposure=1 --wSaturation=0.8 --wContrast=0.1 -f4269x2665 -o 
2009-08-26\ -\ 5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 10-08-01_fused.tif 2009-08-26\ -\ 
5473+0-4-5472_fused\ 10-08-01_stack_ldr_.tif
 enblend, version 3.2 
Usage: enblend [options] -o OUTPUT INPUTS

Common options:
  -a Pre-assemble non-overlapping images
< ... help text ...>
  --load-mask=FILE   Use the mask in the given file instead of 
generating one.
C:\Programme\BILD\Hugin\Hugin 0.8\bin\enblend: illegal option -- wExposure=1
make: *** [2009-08-26 - 5473+0-4-5472_fused 10-08-01_fused.tif] Error 1

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Error when trying to stitch large panoramas

[J. Schneider]

Zoran Zorkic schrieb:
> On Sep 10, 2:46 pm, profdc9  wrote:
> 
>> Could not execute command: autopano-sift-c.exe --maxmatches 20 C:
>> \DOCUME~1\ADMINI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\ap_80B.tmp  "F:\hugin
>> \pano33\IMG_1458.JPG" "F:\hugin\pano33\IMG_1459.JPG" etc...
>>
>> and all 39 images are listed.
> 
> Well, it's a bug in windoze command line length. It can't be helped.
> You could drop the number of images you're trying to align.
Or you move them to a folder with a shorter path. It's the number of 
characters I think, not the number of images as parameters.

> But, you can change the way you're calling autopano-sift by using this
> arguments: "--maxmatches %p %o %s".
> Notice the %p instead of %i. This way you're giving apsc the whole
> project file, instead of individual image names.
> You also get some other bonuses by calling it like that, as it enables
> feature classification in conformal space.
I would like to try that - but do I maybe already have it?
--maxmatches %p --projection %f,%v %o %i
is my entry in the preferences. There is a %p (number of cps per image 
pair according to help text in the dialogue) and an %i (image files).
So what is %p and %i in your email above?

confused regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Enblend/Enfuse 4.0 dev snapshots

[J. Schneider]

Sorry, I was too fast posting; I recognized the cause was changed 
options syntax for enblend. I have to review my enblend options in 
hugin. But this probably means we need new droplets for enblend, too.
regards
Joachim

J. Schneider schrieb:
> Fine! I tried the x86 OpenMP, SSE2 version (assuming that this is right 
> for a core2duo).
> I copied just enblend.exe into my hugin/bin directory (latest available 
> build).
> The error I get looks not like it's a problem of MP or the like, its 
> about an "unrecognized wrap-around mode". It won't let me copy the 
> output as the window disappears just after klicking OK (and before you 
> can't select text) but I felt this would happen and made a screenshot:
> http://www.joachimschneider.info/enblend-error/enblend-error.gif
> The first of the numbers mentioned is the width.
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> 
> Btw, there are droplets supplied only for enfuse but not enblend. Is it 
> because those for enblend didn't need any changes and I can continue to 
> use them?
> 
> regards
> Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Enblend/Enfuse 4.0 dev snapshots

[J. Schneider]

Fine! I tried the x86 OpenMP, SSE2 version (assuming that this is right 
for a core2duo).
I copied just enblend.exe into my hugin/bin directory (latest available 
build).
The error I get looks not like it's a problem of MP or the like, its 
about an "unrecognized wrap-around mode". It won't let me copy the 
output as the window disappears just after klicking OK (and before you 
can't select text) but I felt this would happen and made a screenshot:
http://www.joachimschneider.info/enblend-error/enblend-error.gif
The first of the numbers mentioned is the width.

Any idea?


Btw, there are droplets supplied only for enfuse but not enblend. Is it 
because those for enblend didn't need any changes and I can continue to 
use them?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: guided photo stitching?

[J. Schneider]

  > However, I'm trying to understand roll, pitch and yaw.  Where is the
> (0,0,0) point for anchoring the frame of reference of the coordinate
> system?  
Without being able to answer your more theoretical questions: (0,0,0) is 
the centre of the resulting 2D panorama. Wherever you choose to have 
that. Wherever you drag the images in the preview: (0,0,0) is at the 
crosshair intersection. All y,p,r entries relate to this point.
So in your case I assume you levelled your tripod reasonably and your 
first image is taken at y=0, p=x (you would have to remember this) and 
all are of course more or less at r=0. So the easiest start is: in hugin 
you would set your first image at y=0 and p=x, r=0.
But you might want the final pano framed differently, e.g. the first 
image not necessarily in the center, so it would be y=(wherever you want 
it to appear in the final panorama, but all other images have to be 
shifted by this angle).

> Is it somehow, "The location of the anchor image" (assuming
> that r,p,y for the anchor image are left at zero)?  
I think this is it in case you shot horizontal (which I often do not do).

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: guided photo stitching?

[J. Schneider]

>> You could shoot a nice 3- or 4-row pano, and it's possible the top row
>> would be nothing but clouds and sky, with no reliable control points.
> 
> You can either use the fast preview in hugin to manually set the
> position of such frames or just type in the values for y, p and r in he
> .pto file or in hugin. enblend should do the rest for the sky portions.

You have to set one image as anchor that connects the sky part with the 
landscape part. Otherwise hugin will leave the images without cps where 
you put them and shift about the rest independently.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: NOT SOLVED: Re: Enfuse unpicks alignment - what's up?

[J. Schneider]

Gerry Patterson schrieb:
> Hello Doug,
> ... Perhaps the following sequence will work:
> 
>1. load both images into hugin.
>2. Under the lens tab ensure they have the same lens number assigned
>   to both images.
No, different lens numbers, because he accidentally changed the zoom. 
But I wonder if the exif info isn't already correctly used by hugin. If 
so the images should already be assigned no. 0 and no. 1.
>3. Create a few control points manually (say 5 or 6).  Ensure they
>   are spread out across the images
>4. Under optimizer tab select "Positions and View (y,p,r,v)  The
>   maximum error should very small.  As in less than 1.  ...
If handheld it might be greater but even a few pixels should often work 
acceptably.

Optimizing for v wouldn't give sensible results if both images share the 
same lens number. If they don't you can check one of them to be 
optimized and one to stay fixed.
If exif values for focal length are used correctly by hugin, optimizing 
for v would only correct for slight rounding errors in this transmitted 
data or for movement of the camera back or forth between shots.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: SOLVED: Re: Enfuse unpicks alignment - what's up?

[J. Schneider]

Doug schrieb:
> Thanks Harry.
> I've tried -s 2 and -s 3, both were worse than earlier results.
> As a further check I tried putting in all control points manually; that 
> was almost as bad.
> 
> Bizarre.
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> P.S. Had a further thought and overlaid the images in Gimp.
> 
> It looks as though the zoom ring on the camera lens accidentally slipped 
> between shots - they're at slightly different magnifications, not 
> obvious except in close up.
> Can one correct for this?
Yes: by optimizing for v, as you initially did.

You wrote "solved" in the subject line, but if I understand correctly, 
it is only the result solved by using Gimp. The cause of the 
misalignement still is unsolved, is it?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: portable hugin 0.8

[J. Schneider]

> If the settings could be moved to a .ini-file, and file associations
> are abandoned, I guess Hugin could run from a stick. This could be
> added as an option during installing for versions to come, but
> currently, it does not work like that unfortunately.

Actually it does run from a stick or at least from a HD without 
installation - then it just lacks file type association and it leaves 
traces in the registry. I did so on my office machine (although I have 
admin rights there) by copying the programm directory from my home machine.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: it began to crash ! :)

[J. Schneider]

RizThon schrieb:
> Sorry for jumping in...So "Mask is entirely black, but white image was 
> not identified as redundant." means that it couldn't find any overlap? 
> I've had that error before but it didn't really made any sense to me...
I agree, this error message should be changed to something that a normal 
user can unserstand. And if enblend isn't intelligent enough to try 
--finemask by itself, the hint to try this could at least be included in 
the error message.
regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Settings for cp finder

[J. Schneider]

Yuval Levy schrieb:
> Hi Thomas,
> 
> Thomas Modes wrote:
>> I tested the patch on linux and windows. Could someone test it on a mac?
> 
> THANK YOU for this patch. 
Thank you from me as well. I've been waiting for this for quite some 
time because I was eager to compare the cp generators, but it always 
seemed too cumbersome to change the settings.

> Building on it, I think it would be a good idea to pre-populate a list 
> of settings for the different CP detectors, and to offer examples for 
> the *same* CP detector but different lenses.
Yes.

> Last but not least, a dropdown on the Assistant tab under the 2.Align... 
> button to select one of the settings (same as the dropdown in the Images 
> tab) would be nice.
As far as I understand the patch is a tab in the preferences window? I 
would prefer some UI element that is readily accessible when working 
just from the place in the UI where I hit the button to generate cps. So 
there should be this dropdown list next to each button (maybe confusing 
because there could be different settings in different places) or the 
setting could move up tin the button toolbar.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: some GUI ideas: multilayer tiff?

[J. Schneider]

> That is, unless the drop-down list is modified to contain a list with
> check-boxes, so you can actually select multiple output formats. An
> extended version of this approach could include different output
> settings at the same time, so a single PTO file could generate both a
> full-size multi-layered TIFF and a downscaled JPG. Hmm, I'm dreaming,
> maybe I should go asleep :)

Well, sometimes dreaming awake helps advance software development.
I think the checkbox version would be quite logical. If you can select 
enblend *and* enfuse, why shouldn't you be able to select one format 
*and* another?

By the way my (even more dream-like) suggestion I made some time ago 
(http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/browse_thread/thread/1cfa0f409abf1787;
 
http://www.joachimschneider.info/hugin_workflow_assembly.gif) would make 
all combinations of simultaneous output possible.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: some GUI ideas: multilayer tiff?

[J. Schneider]

> On Sat 18-Jul-2009 at 20:01 +0200, J. Schneider wrote:
>>> Or do you mean you want both TIFF/JPG/PNG output *and* a multi-layered
>>> TIFF at the same time, in a single run, Bruno?
>> It might happen that someone wants this. One workaround should be to
>> send several stitch jobs to the batch stitcher with different output
>> options - but this doesn't work because (as far as I understand) the
>> option is saved in the pto file and the stitcher is handed only a
>> reference to this file. So at stitching time it reads the project file
>> and finds the option last set.
> 
> What happens is that a temporary version of the project is created 
> when stitching starts, so you can 'stitch now', change the project 
> and 'stitch now' again and get two different results as expected.
That's what I did before there was a batch processor.

> The Batch Processor will start with whatever version of the project 
> file exists when that task is processed.  So if you want different 
> versions of the output, you need to change the filename each time.
That's what I do now after I realized how hugin and PTBatcher work 
together. I just think it would be more intuitive and more user friendly 
if it worked principally like the "stitch now" version. First because 
then the function would be basically the same, just with a delay; and 
second because it saves the user some clicks.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: hfov considered dangerous

[J. Schneider]

> Plus there are also whole classes of images that you might use as 
> input for hugin where 'focal length' has no physical meaning:
> 
> - perspective drawings and paintings
> - 3d computer renderings
> - any output image created by hugin
By the way: Do they carry any information (in metadata) about the 
projection and field of view when they are finished? To be used when 
either taken as input again or by the user for any other purpose.
Would be nice.
regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: some GUI ideas: multilayer tiff?

[J. Schneider]

>> The only problem is the already convoluted GUI in the hugin Stitcher
>> tab, how do we make this an option that users will be able to find?
> 
> I'd suggest simply as a "Normal Output" option, which is now populated
> with TIFF/JPG/PNG.
> Or do you mean you want both TIFF/JPG/PNG output *and* a multi-layered
> TIFF at the same time, in a single run, Bruno?

It might happen that someone wants this. One workaround should be to 
send several stitch jobs to the batch stitcher with different output 
options - but this doesn't work because (as far as I understand) the 
option is saved in the pto file and the stitcher is handed only a 
reference to this file. So at stitching time it reads the project file 
and finds the option last set.
I have wished it to be different several times already. E.g. whe I 
wanted to try different projections.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: morph-to-fit?

[J. Schneider]

>> And to push that vision a bit further, why not a tool that can really
>> "morph-to-fit", that is, stretch one or both images (gently) until a
>> whole bunch of control points line up exactly?
> 
> The panotools morph to fit was never implemented in hugin because it 
> isn't that great.
But for my handheld panos it was quite helpful sometimes. I asked for 
this feature in hugin years back, but this didn't all on fertile ground 
at that time.
Gruß
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Landscape and portrait images can't share a lens

[J. Schneider]

Hi,
I am wondering about two things:

Why can't hugin check for this user input error beforehand? (I 
understand it quit with the mentioned error report. Anyway the report 
should be clear everyday language.) This I would consider a bug.

One step further: I have understood why portrait and landscape images 
can't share a lens in the panotools lens model - but this should be 
transparent to the user. Hugin should be able to recognise that two 
images have been taken with the same physical lens but different 
orientation (of course this is only an assumption, but it only assumes 
as well that images of same size and orientation share a lens).
Now hugin could either assign different lenses by itself or even better 
do so only internally and display them to the user as sharing a lens (so 
there would be "user lenses" and "panotools model lenses"). OK, the 
latter would confuse people who have learned the whole stuff earlier.

regards
Joachim



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[hugin-ptx] Re: posterization problem (Win, SVN 4007)

[J. Schneider]

Bruno Postle schrieb:
> On Sat 11-Jul-2009 at 19:35 +0200, Lukáš Jirkovský wrote:
>> 2009/7/11 J. Schneider :
>>>> Looking at these results it seems like a badly computed EMoR response
>>>> curve. Can you try it with reseting camera response?
> 
>>> How can I reset it? The UI seemingly doesn't allow (wasn't that a
>>> feature request?).
> 
>> Just write 0 to all five fields under Camera response.
> 
> You can also click the new Reset... button on the Camera and Lens 
> tab.
Ah, thank you! In the Camera and lens tab. I was looking for a way to 
enter 0 values in the exposure tab.

> Note that zeroing the EMoR parameters is equivalent to specifying an 
> 'average' camera response curve, so in a lot of circumstances you 
> can leave them at zero.
At zero everything looks quite OK. Although I remember that they usually 
got compued to something else but 0 and everything was OK.

What I don't understand about the case is:
- Why does the optimization fail in certain cases
- why are results different between e.g. SVN3906 and 4007

and what I don't understand about the interface is:
- resetting EV values gives the option to set exposure back to EXIF
   or to 0. Why doesn't hugin do anything when there is no EXIF value
   (because it's a film scan (this is a different test case)) or rather
   why does it present the EXIF option?
- Why can I reset image orientation from the camera and lens tab?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: posterization problem (Win, SVN 4007)

[J. Schneider]

> Looking at these results it seems like a badly computed EMoR response
> curve. Can you try it with reseting camera response? 
> ... 
> Lukáš
How can I reset it? The UI seemingly doesn't allow (wasn't that a 
feature request?).
regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] posterization problem (Win, SVN 4007)

[J. Schneider]

Hi all,
recently I'm experiencing a problem with colours, seemingly in 
connection with photometric optimization. Colour/brightnes values get 
screwed up, particularly in bright areas.
For most of my quick-and-dirty handheld panos I follow the "standard" 
workflow (at least standard in that it is what the tabbed interface 
suggests:
- drop images
- hit align, wait for preview
- tweak a little if necessary
- shift, crop in OGL-preview
- stitch via batch stitcher (OK, that's not what the first tab
   suggests).

I'm on WinXP SP3, using build 4007. I re-installed 3906 to test and the 
effect occurs less heavily.
If I don't use the automatic workflow (align button) but
- drop images
- generate cps on the second tab, omitting photometric optimization
- rest as before
then everything is OK.
Trying to tweak exposure optimization leads to worse results.

I uploaded source files, results and pto files at
http://www.joachimschneider.info/devon2009/colourproblem/index.html.
(Images scaled only in html for display, so you get the full sized 
images to download.)
If you look at the clouds in the top left corner you can see them 
getting burned out in the results (max brightness values of source are 
around 238). In other projects also mid-range colours got messed up.

Any explanation? Am I doing anything wrong? Am I expecting something to 
work that can not work?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Fusing before or after

[J. Schneider]

Hello Habi,
> So I'm asking: would I get another result if I'd have generated three
> panoramas, one for each exposure step and then enfuse them to one
> final panorama?
I can't tell this but I have the impression that the scene isn't 
particularly suitable for exposure fusing. I would expect the dark areas 
  in the train station to have a little more detail than without fusing 
but that's all. (Of course I haven't seen the original images or a 
panorama made solely of the middle exposure.) By the way I would 
recommend to use vertical control points to keep vertical edges of 
buildings upright.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: some minor GUI ideas

[J. Schneider]

> * when I optimimze the popup dialog shows me what the ne distance etc
> is and asks if I want to apply the new positioning. it would be cool
> to see the old vales there as well: So I do know wheather the
> optimizsation did improve the result or not (and how much).

And it should have a "Don't ask this again" checkbox. Or it should only 
ask in case the new result is worse. I find this dialogue absolutely 
annoying.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Enblend error: Mask is entirely black, but white image was not identified as redundant

[J. Schneider]

Guido Kohlmeyer schrieb:
> Maybe
> the author of enblend can inplement a switch function to prevent the 
> problem.  
Wouldn't it be possible for hugin to intercept this error message and 
set --finemask by itself and retry?

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: small UI improvements

[J. Schneider]

Hi all,
I just want to support your ideas, I would find them all very useful, 
they are all worth "official" feature requests. (The selection-rectangle 
thing has been suggested earlier I believe - so there might be something 
in the tracker already).
Speaking of the cp tab: Wasn't the border between the image panes and 
the table area movable in earlier versions? Anyway it would often be a 
help if it was.

regards
Joachim
















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[hugin-ptx] PTBatcherGUI: a few GUI issues

[J. Schneider]

Hi all,

now that PTBatcherGUI works again under Windows - hurray! thanks a lot!
- I have a few questions and suggestions concerning the GUI. After some
feedback I might file feature requests or bug reports.

First of all a question for me to understand: As far as I understood in
an other thread, PTBatcher and PTBatcherGUI are both standalone
programs, so PTBatcherGUI is not simply a GUI for PTBatcher? If so it is
irritating, but never mind.


Buttons, Arrangement

1.
What distinguishes the buttons on the right from those in the toolbar?
Among both groups there are general commands (start, stop, ... /Remove
complete, Reset all) and commands that apply to a specific list item. I
personally like toolbar buttons with icons better than those with text.
If there is a distinction to be made between different types I would do
it as above: general/specific.
Could you imagine to use additional columns for the specific commands?
Like e.g. in Thunderbird where you can do certain mark/unmark actions in
a list column. Of course not to replace the buttons, just additionally.

2.
Could you add a "pause after this project" button? And/or maybe 
"shutdown (or suspend, whatever is currently set) after this project"?

3.
Could you add a button (a command) to open the folder of a project/of a 
result file?


List

4.
The column "Output prefix" contains the whole path. I'm not sure if this
is useful. At least not for me because I always use the project's path
as output path. Maybe it should be optional (checkbox or additional
column that can be hidden) and switched off by default in case the
output path does not differ from the project path.

5.
Could you enable multiple selections in the list? To apply one command
to several list items.


Other things

6.
The "Change prefix" dialogue uses a kind of open or save dialogue. This
can be useful if you want to set a name that is similar to an existing
name. Nevertheless I would like to have the currently chosen name
already entered in the filename field. This way minor changes would be
easier.
Low priority for me.

7.
There is an option to always overwrite existing files. Could you add an
option to reuse them? When my unstable machine crashes in the middle of
an hour of blending it would be nice to have the possibility to skip at
least remapping.

8.
Which leads me to another question: I am very fond of the pause button
(which the hugin status windows don't have, they just have a cancel
button). But would it be possible to preserve the status of a project in
progress even between sessions? Maybe by writing a partially blended
tiff (possibly discarding some work of the current blending step) and
making a note in the queue file with which image to continue blending. 
Or even by keeping the current enblend swap file as a temporary file
between sessions.
OK, at least the last idea would probably require major changes not only
in the batch processor but also in enblend - so forget it for the moment.

9.
Nice to have an option to shut down when done. But it would be even
nicer to have the choice between shutting down and suspending.

10.
Checking "Verbose output" while one project is being worked on results
in the according window only being opened when the next project (or the
next stage of the current project?) is reached. Would be nicer if it
opened immediately. But really low priority.


A bug

Just while I'm writing one project fails because I used the # character 
in the file name.
"d:\tmp\hug3B6.tmp:552: warning: overriding commands for target '#'
... no target ..."
I should copy the whole report, it says, but it won't let me: After I 
click OK for this message, the status window out of which I should copy 
disappears as well. Like we had it with hugin some time ago.



Now this is quite a few things but that's just about smoothing some 
rough edges. I'm quite happy that a batch processor now crunches away my 
panos from my holidays in Devon (UK) 
http://www.joachimschneider.info/2009_devon/2009_devon.html
while I am not at home.



best regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: German translation: a few questions about original strings

[J. Schneider]

>>> By the way, when I set my current rev 3811 to use English, the Batch
>>> processor is still displayed in German. I guess this is not intended?

>> The batch processor probably uses your system locale and ignores the
>> hugin language preference.  This is a bug, but I'm not sure this
>> ability to change languages within hugin is very useful - 
Well, for me it is useful when I translate strings and when I want to 
see the original appearance. But for other people it may be useful just 
to work with.
>> Is this common with other applications?
Yes, although I don't have statistically relevant knowledge. E.g. in 
OpenOffice you can change the UI language or in QuarkXPress (desktop 
publishing).

> I don't think so. If I remember well I've seen it only within qt based
> applications (probably qt has some neat feature so it's really easy to
> do it) and hugin. IMO if someone wants to change hugin language he can
> easily do it using environment variable LANG.
What is this? Something Linux specific?
For hugin I would say: keep it as it is. For PTBatcherGUI: It is a low 
priority bug, but it is a bug.

regards
Joachim

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[hugin-ptx] Re: German translation: a few questions about original strings

[J. Schneider]

Hi Guido,

> Let me know if you finished with rough translations. I would like to 
> review them afterwards to avoid double work done by you and me.
I submitted my work, it's patch 2784962. In the tracker you can find it:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2784962&group_id=77506&atid=550443

>> 2.
>> On the camera and lens tab there is a "Reset..." button (which should 
>> read "Reset ..." I believe) and in the following dialogue there is a 
>> string "Lens parameters" that is translated in the PO file but still 
>> displayed in English.
> 
> The tripple points are commonly used to note about a following dialog 
> and no direct action. 
(I knew)
> I used the notation without space so far.
OK, I checked in other programs and they all use it this way. Anyway 
pretty unimportant.

> The naming of the projections ... Well, I have currently no idea how to 
> handle them especially I don't know about the commonly used naming in 
> german. Maybe the supposed translations are fine or there is a special 
> terminology available. If it dawns on me I let you know.
I put translations (with English in brackets and left them as fuzzy) 
where I found them quite sensible and left away those that I don't have 
a clue of. I did some search on the net, and although I never found the 
complete terms the translations for single words seemed confirmed.


The strings concerned by the questions from my previous email are not 
yet changed.


regards
Joachim

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