Re: Third level VSE

[Kris Buelens]

Avoid privileged instructions, such as IO and paging. Here VM's
Minidisk cache can help to avoid I/O.  You'd cache at the highest
level, that is use VSE caching as much as possible, then VM/ESA's;
you'd turn off MDC in z/VM, it is of no use to have two MDC levels.

Have you looked at a performance monitor?  Is the CPU full indeed?.
Multiple processor configs would cause higher overheads too I guess
and VSE's turbodispatcher is(was?) known not to be very performant,
but if the VSE load requires more than one CP, you have no choice.  I
guess you know it is useless to define more virtual CP's than you have
real ones available.

2009/4/29 Berry van Sleeuwen 
>
> Hello listers,
>
> Before I begin, yes I know third level will cost us. Since SIE doesn't get
> down to the VSE we do not benefit from that and all CPU has to be emulated.
>
> We have moved an old VM/ESA 2.2 with VSE 2.3 to a new z890 machine.
> Obviously this level of VM can't run on zseries so we have put the VM into
> an zVM 5.4 LPAR. It does run and since they came from an old (ESCON) machine
> the batch (mostly IO) runs very good.
>
> We did expect to see some performance penalties and we already sized the
> machine to twice the MIPS they used to have. And for the most part the guest
> VM has a TV ratio between 1.9 and 2.5. Usually during batch the TV is just
> above 2 but during online hours we also see a TV above 3. There are a few
> transactions that have a very bad performance. (from 2 seconds to 2.5
> minutes) The time also depends on the other load in the VSE (or perhaps even
> in the CICS).
>
> We have been playing with lots of settings. Such as, two virtual CPU's in
> the guest, two virtual CPU's in VSE with TurboDispatcher, one dedicated CPU
> to the guest VM.
>
> Any ideas on how to speed up the guests? Other than migrating the guest VM
> to the zVM 5.4 host?
>
> TIA, Berry.



--
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support

Re: Third level VSE

[Berry van Sleeuwen]

Hello Kris,

The guest runs with attached DASD so MDC is not applicable in this case.

It doesn't look like IO is the problem here. But obviously any command
processed in the guest will cause double the load in the host VM. So I do

agree to avoid as much as possible. I don't know if MDC in the guest is
possible or acceptable.

Paging is not an issue. The host has 1G, the guest has 512M. The VSE runs

NOPDS and the guest VM doesn't page.

Yes, we run PTK. Running in the current config the guest VM can run up to

100%, and it does. When we assign 2 virtual CPU's to both VM and VSE (and

start TD) we have seen the guest running up to about 190%. Also VSE does
show processing at 100% CPU. But even an increase to 2 CPU's doesn't lowe
r
the transaction times for the transactions in question to an acceptable l
evel.

Regards, Berry.

AW: Third level VSE

[Fritz, Wilhelm]

AFAIK, in the third level there is no SIE possible.
That makes for a great performance impediment.

Kind regards,
Willy 

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] Im Auftrag 
von Berry van Sleeuwen
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. April 2009 12:01
An: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Betreff: Re: Third level VSE

Hello Kris,

The guest runs with attached DASD so MDC is not applicable in this case.

It doesn't look like IO is the problem here. But obviously any command
processed in the guest will cause double the load in the host VM. So I do
agree to avoid as much as possible. I don't know if MDC in the guest is
possible or acceptable.

Paging is not an issue. The host has 1G, the guest has 512M. The VSE runs
NOPDS and the guest VM doesn't page.

Yes, we run PTK. Running in the current config the guest VM can run up to
100%, and it does. When we assign 2 virtual CPU's to both VM and VSE (and
start TD) we have seen the guest running up to about 190%. Also VSE does
show processing at 100% CPU. But even an increase to 2 CPU's doesn't lower
the transaction times for the transactions in question to an acceptable level.

Regards, Berry.

Re: Third level VSE

[Dieltiens Geert]

Berry,



Do you mean: attached to the VSE-guest or to the VM/ESA-guest?
If attached to the VSE-guest: is there still a real performance benefit
in attaching dasd to a 3rd level VSE-guest?

Anyway, MDC has the potential of giving your VSE-throughput a real boost
(it did in our case), so in order for the VSE-guest to benefit from MDC
in the VM/ESA system, I would: 
- in the first level z/VM: attach the dasd to the 2nd level VM/ESA
guest.
- in the 2nd level VM/ESA: attach the dasd to SYSTEM, and define
fullpack MDISKs for the 3rd level VSE guest. 

Also, if enough storage is available in VSE, add more buffers to your
CICS LSR-pools and/or database system.

Bye,
Geert.
-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Berry van Sleeuwen
Sent: woensdag 29 april 2009 12:01
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Third level VSE

Hello Kris,

The guest runs with attached DASD so MDC is not applicable in this case.

It doesn't look like IO is the problem here. But obviously any command
processed in the guest will cause double the load in the host VM. So I
do=

agree to avoid as much as possible. I don't know if MDC in the guest is
possible or acceptable.

Paging is not an issue. The host has 1G, the guest has 512M. The VSE
runs=

NOPDS and the guest VM doesn't page.

Yes, we run PTK. Running in the current config the guest VM can run up
to=

100%, and it does. When we assign 2 virtual CPU's to both VM and VSE
(and=

start TD) we have seen the guest running up to about 190%. Also VSE does
show processing at 100% CPU. But even an increase to 2 CPU's doesn't
lowe=
r
the transaction times for the transactions in question to an acceptable
l=
evel.

Regards, Berry.
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to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email 
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Re: Third level VSE

[Berry van Sleeuwen]

Geert,

>Do you mean: attached to the VSE-guest or to the VM/ESA-guest?
>If attached to the VSE-guest: is there still a real performance benefit
>in attaching dasd to a 3rd level VSE-guest?

Attached to the guest VM. I don't know if there would be any advantage in

attaching to third level, other than an as-is move to a new location.

>Anyway, MDC has the potential of giving your VSE-throughput a real boost

>(it did in our case), so in order for the VSE-guest to benefit from MDC
>in the VM/ESA system, I would: 
>- in the first level z/VM: attach the dasd to the 2nd level VM/ESA
>guest.
>- in the 2nd level VM/ESA: attach the dasd to SYSTEM, and define
>fullpack MDISKs for the 3rd level VSE guest. 

But would that also boost non-IO load? I expect the problem is CPU load i
n
some stupid program. In that case any MDC wouldn't help me for that. The
only advantage would be an improvement of the batch processing.

>Also, if enough storage is available in VSE, add more buffers to your
>CICS LSR-pools and/or database system.

Storage enough. We have 512M spare in the host VM that isn't used. And th
e
VSE runs NOPDS so we can increase it just by adding virtual storage in th
e
VSE guest directory. If VM runs out of storage (or starts paging at any
serious level) we can add virual storage to the guest VM.

Regards, Berry.

Re: Third level VSE

[Kris Buelens]

Only a subset of privileged instructions require intervention from VM
hence huge overhead for 3'th level VSE.  MOVE kind instructions for
example would ran at native speed, no matter how deed the SIE
instruction is nested.
Driving IO is the most obvious area that require VM intervention.
Avoiding IO will save CPU cycles that then can be used for something
else.  So as Geert and I suggest: buffer as much as possible in VSE.
the IOs VSE will still issue will be seen by the second level VM, if
it can find the data in the MDC, it will not launch an IO that the
first level VM will need to handle.  Give MDC a try by using MDISKs
for VSE, but turn MDC off in the first level VM, and give the
secondlevel VM as much storage as you can.

MDC will transform IO requests into fulltrack IOs, so with one IO you
get much more than requested; sequential processing will fly.
Random access: may vary, if the MDC is large enough you may still
benefit.

2009/4/29 Berry van Sleeuwen :
> Geert,
>
>>Do you mean: attached to the VSE-guest or to the VM/ESA-guest?
>>If attached to the VSE-guest: is there still a real performance benefit
>>in attaching dasd to a 3rd level VSE-guest?
>
> Attached to the guest VM. I don't know if there would be any advantage in
> attaching to third level, other than an as-is move to a new location.
>
>>Anyway, MDC has the potential of giving your VSE-throughput a real boost
>>(it did in our case), so in order for the VSE-guest to benefit from MDC
>>in the VM/ESA system, I would:
>>- in the first level z/VM: attach the dasd to the 2nd level VM/ESA
>>guest.
>>- in the 2nd level VM/ESA: attach the dasd to SYSTEM, and define
>>fullpack MDISKs for the 3rd level VSE guest.
>
> But would that also boost non-IO load? I expect the problem is CPU load in
> some stupid program. In that case any MDC wouldn't help me for that. The
> only advantage would be an improvement of the batch processing.
>
>>Also, if enough storage is available in VSE, add more buffers to your
>>CICS LSR-pools and/or database system.
>
> Storage enough. We have 512M spare in the host VM that isn't used. And the
> VSE runs NOPDS so we can increase it just by adding virtual storage in the
> VSE guest directory. If VM runs out of storage (or starts paging at any
> serious level) we can add virual storage to the guest VM.
>
> Regards, Berry.
>



-- 
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support

Re: Third level VSE

[Dieltiens Geert]

Well, if the problem is caused by a CPU-intensive CICS-program, then I
would expect that you would have seen that problem on your old system as
well (when we put a really CPU-intensive CICS-program into production,
we get calls from frustrated users immediately). But you'll need a CICS
monitor to look into the resource usage of your CICS-transactions...  

A couple of other things to consider regarding CPU-resources:
- is the VM/ESA guest the only (heavy) guest in the z/VM system or is
competing with others? 
- was CP SET SHARE set appropriately for this guest in the z/VM system?
- did you provide QUICKDSP for the VM/ESA guest in the z/VM system? 
- does the LPAR get all the resources you think its getting (check the
Change Logical Partition Controls task or the activity display on the
HMC)?

Bye,
Geert.


-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Berry van Sleeuwen
Sent: woensdag 29 april 2009 13:51
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Third level VSE

Geert,

>Do you mean: attached to the VSE-guest or to the VM/ESA-guest?
>If attached to the VSE-guest: is there still a real performance benefit
>in attaching dasd to a 3rd level VSE-guest?

Attached to the guest VM. I don't know if there would be any advantage
in=

attaching to third level, other than an as-is move to a new location.

>Anyway, MDC has the potential of giving your VSE-throughput a real
boost=

>(it did in our case), so in order for the VSE-guest to benefit from MDC
>in the VM/ESA system, I would: 
>- in the first level z/VM: attach the dasd to the 2nd level VM/ESA
>guest.
>- in the 2nd level VM/ESA: attach the dasd to SYSTEM, and define
>fullpack MDISKs for the 3rd level VSE guest. 

But would that also boost non-IO load? I expect the problem is CPU load
i=
n
some stupid program. In that case any MDC wouldn't help me for that. The
only advantage would be an improvement of the batch processing.

>Also, if enough storage is available in VSE, add more buffers to your
>CICS LSR-pools and/or database system.

Storage enough. We have 512M spare in the host VM that isn't used. And
th=
e
VSE runs NOPDS so we can increase it just by adding virtual storage in
th=
e
VSE guest directory. If VM runs out of storage (or starts paging at any
serious level) we can add virual storage to the guest VM.

Regards, Berry.
DISCLAIMER

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity 
to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email 
in error please notify postmas...@vanbreda.be
This footnote also confirms that this email has been checked 
for the presence of viruses.

Informatica J.Van Breda & Co NV BTW BE 0427 908 174

Re: Third level VSE

[Rich Smrcina]

Berry van Sleeuwen wrote:

  But would that also boost non-IO load? I expect the problem is CPU load in
some stupid program. In that case any MDC wouldn't help me for that. The
only advantage would be an improvement of the batch processing.

  

Then engage a performance monitor under VSE, or the System Activity
Display to determine where the CPU Cycles are going.

But, the best I/O is no I/O, I'm with Kris and Geert, try to reduce the
number of I/O's as much as possible.


-- 
Rich Smrcina
Phone: 414-491-6001
http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina

Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2009 - Orlando, FL - May 15-19, 2009

Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

I'm really struggling with these displays and definitions. For VM 5.4:

1) The manual says v-disk are shareable, created by the first user and deleted 
after the last user.
   If in user direct I have v-disk defined for 3 user:
User1 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288 
User2 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288 
User3 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 131072
   How are they shared?


2) I currently have: 
q vdisk u 
VDISK USER   LIMIT IS 144000 BLK 
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:02  
q vdisk s 
VDISK SYSTEM LIMIT IS3605040 BLK,3145728 BLK IN USE  
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:13  

q vdisk
VDISK FAWKES   0701   131072 BLK1 LINKS 
FAWKES   0700 R/W 
 
VDISK NCIALPHA 0701   524288 BLK1 LINKS 
NCIALPHA 0701 R/W   

VDISK NCIALPHA 0700   524288 BLK1 LINKS 
NCIALPHA 0700 R/W   

If the user limit is 144,000 blocks, how can VDISK NCIALPHA have 524,288 
blocks, twice.

Thanks
   
Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


  

Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

[Bob Bates]

They are not because each is defined separately. From User2 try LINK User1 700 
701 RR and see what that gets you. 

Just like all the users having 191, that doesn't mean they are shared with one 
another.  


Bob Bates
Enterprise Hosting Services 

w. (469)892-6660
c. (214) 907-5071

"This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information.  If you 
are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must 
not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any 
information herein.  If you have received this message in error, please advise 
the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message.  Thank you for 
your cooperation."



-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf 
Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:23 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

I'm really struggling with these displays and definitions. For VM 5.4:

1) The manual says v-disk are shareable, created by the first user and deleted 
after the last user.
   If in user direct I have v-disk defined for 3 user:
User1 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288 
User2 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288 
User3 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 131072
   How are they shared?


2) I currently have: 
q vdisk u 
VDISK USER   LIMIT IS 144000 BLK 
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:02  
q vdisk s 
VDISK SYSTEM LIMIT IS3605040 BLK,3145728 BLK IN USE  
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:13  

q vdisk
VDISK FAWKES   0701   131072 BLK1 LINKS 
FAWKES   0700 R/W 
 
VDISK NCIALPHA 0701   524288 BLK1 LINKS 
NCIALPHA 0701 R/W   

VDISK NCIALPHA 0700   524288 BLK1 LINKS 
NCIALPHA 0700 R/W   

If the user limit is 144,000 blocks, how can VDISK NCIALPHA have 524,288 
blocks, twice.

Thanks
   
Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


  

Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

[Romanowski, John (OFT)]

a VDISK is shared by CP LINK-ing to it
for example
USER1 can CP LINK USER2 700 A700 RR

VDISK NCIALPHA have 524,288 blocks because  its VDISks are defined in the CP 
directory and not via a CP command


> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
> Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:23 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk
>
> I'm really struggling with these displays and definitions. For VM 5.4:
>
> 1) The manual says v-disk are shareable, created by the first user and
> deleted after the last user.
>If in user direct I have v-disk defined for 3 user:
>   User1 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288
>   User2 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288
>   User3 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 131072
>How are they shared?
>
>
> 2) I currently have:
> q vdisk u
> VDISK USER   LIMIT IS 144000 BLK
> Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:02
> q vdisk s
> VDISK SYSTEM LIMIT IS3605040 BLK,3145728 BLK IN USE
> Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:13
>
> q vdisk
> VDISK FAWKES   0701   131072 BLK1 LINKS
> FAWKES   0700 R/W
>
> VDISK NCIALPHA 0701   524288 BLK1 LINKS
> NCIALPHA 0701 R/W
>
> VDISK NCIALPHA 0700   524288 BLK1 LINKS
> NCIALPHA 0700 R/W
>
> If the user limit is 144,000 blocks, how can VDISK NCIALPHA have
> 524,288 blocks, twice.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bobby Bauer
> Center for Information Technology
> National Institutes of Health
> Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
> 301-594-7474
>
>
>


This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it 
to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its 
attachments.  Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete 
the e-mail from your system.

Re: Third level VSE

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 08:17 EDT, Kris Buelens 
 wrote:
> Only a subset of privileged instructions require intervention from VM
> hence huge overhead for 3'th level VSE.  MOVE kind instructions for
> example would ran at native speed, no matter how deed the SIE
> instruction is nested.

An unassisted SIE instruction is trapped by the underlying z/VM system and 
"trimmed" to reflect what the underlying z/VM system knows about the guest 
who issued the SIE.  Then that underlying z/VM issues a SIE.  With few 
exceptions, all nth-level guests run under real SIE.  Of course, you 
haven't got much of a time slice and there are fewer guest pages resident 
in SIE-accessible memory, so you don't stay in SIE very long.  Hence the 
poor performance.  But while that guest is in SIE, he's running at full 
speed.  There are some kinds of pre/post-real SIE conditions that have to 
be simulated by each underlying z/VM, so sometimes you never reach real 
SIE.

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

John, Bob, thanks. Makes much more sense now.

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474



-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf 
Of Romanowski, John (OFT)
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:30 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

a VDISK is shared by CP LINK-ing to it
for example
USER1 can CP LINK USER2 700 A700 RR

VDISK NCIALPHA have 524,288 blocks because  its VDISks are defined in the CP 
directory and not via a CP command


> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
> Behalf Of Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:23 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk
>
> I'm really struggling with these displays and definitions. For VM 5.4:
>
> 1) The manual says v-disk are shareable, created by the first user and
> deleted after the last user.
>If in user direct I have v-disk defined for 3 user:
>   User1 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288
>   User2 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288
>   User3 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 131072
>How are they shared?
>
>
> 2) I currently have:
> q vdisk u
> VDISK USER   LIMIT IS 144000 BLK
> Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:02
> q vdisk s
> VDISK SYSTEM LIMIT IS3605040 BLK,3145728 BLK IN USE
> Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:13
>
> q vdisk
> VDISK FAWKES   0701   131072 BLK1 LINKS
> FAWKES   0700 R/W
>
> VDISK NCIALPHA 0701   524288 BLK1 LINKS
> NCIALPHA 0701 R/W
>
> VDISK NCIALPHA 0700   524288 BLK1 LINKS
> NCIALPHA 0700 R/W
>
> If the user limit is 144,000 blocks, how can VDISK NCIALPHA have
> 524,288 blocks, twice.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bobby Bauer
> Center for Information Technology
> National Institutes of Health
> Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
> 301-594-7474
>
>
>


This e-mail, including any attachments, may be confidential, privileged or 
otherwise legally protected. It is intended only for the addressee. If you 
received this e-mail in error or from someone who was not authorized to send it 
to you, do not disseminate, copy or otherwise use this e-mail or its 
attachments.  Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete 
the e-mail from your system.

Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

[Dave Jones]

Hi, Booby.

Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] wrote:

I'm really struggling with these displays and definitions. For VM 5.4:

1) The manual says v-disk are shareable, created by the first user and deleted 
after the last user.
   If in user direct I have v-disk defined for 3 user:
	User1 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288 
	User2 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 524288 
	User3 has MDISK 700 FB-512V-DISK 131072

   How are they shared?

Currently, they are not shared all...there are three separate vdisks 
defined, one for each guest USER1, USER2, and USER3.


To share, say, USER1's vdisk at virtual address 700 with USER2, USER2 
could issue the following CP command:


  CP LINK USER1 700 701 RR (or whatever link mode the app needs)

Now, whenever USER1 logs off, CP will notice that there is still one 
other user (USER2) that holds a link to USER1's 700 vdisk, and will keep 
it around. It presumes that there might be some data on the vdisk USER2 
is still interested in accessing, hence the manual comment on created by 
the first user and not deleted until the last user link to it has been 
broken.


2) I currently have: 
q vdisk u 
VDISK USER   LIMIT IS 144000 BLK 
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:02  
q vdisk s 
VDISK SYSTEM LIMIT IS3605040 BLK,3145728 BLK IN USE  
Ready; T=0.01/0.01 09:39:13  


q vdisk
VDISK FAWKES   0701   131072 BLK1 LINKS 
FAWKES   0700 R/W 
 
VDISK NCIALPHA 0701   524288 BLK1 LINKS 
NCIALPHA 0701 R/W   

VDISK NCIALPHA 0700   524288 BLK1 LINKS 
NCIALPHA 0700 R/W   


If the user limit is 144,000 blocks, how can VDISK NCIALPHA have 524,288 
blocks, twice.

Thanks
   
Bobby Bauer

Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474


  


--
Dave Jones
V/Soft
www.vsoft-software.com
Houston, TX
281.578.7544

How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996
files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of these
minidisks concurrently.
DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded

Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below 16M,
does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files will go on a
minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern) before
it cannot be accessed? 

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Imler, Steven J]

Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a backup
product that might help to tell you that it is?


JR (Steven) Imler
CA
Senior Sustaining Engineer
Tel: +1-703-708-3479
steven.im...@ca.com




> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
On
> Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?
> 
> We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996
> files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
these
> minidisks concurrently.
>   DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> 
> Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
16M,
> does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files will go on a
> minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
before
> it cannot be accessed?

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

It is a CMS architecture limit.  Do not make me go to IBMIN.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?

Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a backup
product that might help to tell you that it is?


JR (Steven) Imler
CA
Senior Sustaining Engineer
Tel: +1-703-708-3479
steven.im...@ca.com




> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
On
> Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?
> 
> We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996
> files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
these
> minidisks concurrently.
>   DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> 
> Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
16M,
> does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files will go on a
> minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
before
> it cannot be accessed?

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Kris Buelens]

An FST entry costs 64 bytes.  On top of that CMS builds hyperblocks to
speed up file searching, that is CMS records the highest fileid found
in each FST page. 15 files is roughly 2400 pages, or 9MB.

When an SFS directory is placed in a dataspace, the FST's are placed
in the dataspace too -below 16M- i.e. they don't occupy space in the
end-user's primary address space.  Maybe only true for SET MACHINE XC
users.

To check for corruption: if you have installed the DFSMS module, issue
"DFSMS CHECK vdev"

2009/4/29 Imler, Steven J 
>
> Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a backup
> product that might help to tell you that it is?
>
>
> JR (Steven) Imler
> CA
> Senior Sustaining Engineer
> Tel: +1-703-708-3479
> steven.im...@ca.com
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
> On
> > Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
> ACCESSed?
> >
> > We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996
> > files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
> these
> > minidisks concurrently.
> >   DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> >
> > Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
> 16M,
> > does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files will go on a
> > minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
> before
> > it cannot be accessed?



--
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support

Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

[David Boyes]

On 4/29/09 10:28 AM, "Bob Bates"  wrote:

> They are not because each is defined separately. From User2 try LINK User1 700
> 701 RR and see what that gets you.
> 
> Just like all the users having 191, that doesn't mean they are shared with one
> another. 

Although you should NOT share disks used for Linux swap. You CAN link them
from another virtual machine, but the ids need to provide some method of
telling each other who has control of the disk at any given point. Linux
does not do this, and Very Very Bad Things will happen if you share a swap
disk. 

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Schuh, Richard]

If there were nothing else below the 16M line except for FST, the maximum is 
262144. Start with that number and subtract 64 for every page < 16M that is 
otherwise occupied. This is obviously less than the 279711 files on your 2 
disks. Is it possible for you to limit what gets put in the FST by accessing by 
mode number (acc 999 x/x * * x2)? Another possibility would be to put the files 
in SFS and use them without accessing the directories, or by using 
subdirectories to limit the number of files accessed.

Regards, 
Richard Schuh 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:59 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> It is a CMS architecture limit.  Do not make me go to IBMIN.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a 
> backup product that might help to tell you that it is?
> 
> 
> JR (Steven) Imler
> CA
> Senior Sustaining Engineer
> Tel: +1-703-708-3479
> steven.im...@ca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
> On
> > Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
> ACCESSed?
> > 
> > We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996 
> > files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
> these
> > minidisks concurrently.
> > DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> > 
> > Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
> 16M,
> > does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files 
> will go on a 
> > minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
> before
> > it cannot be accessed?
> 

Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

I recognized this after trying it to set it up. The second guest that was using 
the link was in r/o mode and all of a sudden the implications became clear.  
But thanks for pointing it out.

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474



-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf 
Of David Boyes
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:21 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Nedd some help undersdtanding vdisk

On 4/29/09 10:28 AM, "Bob Bates"  wrote:

> They are not because each is defined separately. From User2 try LINK User1 700
> 701 RR and see what that gets you.
> 
> Just like all the users having 191, that doesn't mean they are shared with one
> another. 

Although you should NOT share disks used for Linux swap. You CAN link them
from another virtual machine, but the ids need to provide some method of
telling each other who has control of the disk at any given point. Linux
does not do this, and Very Very Bad Things will happen if you share a swap
disk. 

Defining SCSI devices for Linux guest

[Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]]

We have a old, small SAN for testing. Previously all of our disk storage has 
been on dasd (3390-9). We have figured out how to access the SAN, build a file 
system on it and mount the filesystem on one of our test servers.
Now we would like to build a Linux guest on this SAN. Is there a way to define 
SCSI devices in user direct so they can be available to the guest? I see I can 
use 9336 emulation but that seems like a backwards step.
Keeping the 191 disk on dasd is OK.

Bobby Bauer
Center for Information Technology
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892-5628
301-594-7474

 

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk.  The
application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online.  Given
64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
That would be exactly a full working month.

I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more frequently
or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an architectural limit. 

By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They just
contain a large amount of small files.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:22 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?

If there were nothing else below the 16M line except for FST, the
maximum is 262144. Start with that number and subtract 64 for every page
< 16M that is otherwise occupied. This is obviously less than the 279711
files on your 2 disks. Is it possible for you to limit what gets put in
the FST by accessing by mode number (acc 999 x/x * * x2)? Another
possibility would be to put the files in SFS and use them without
accessing the directories, or by using subdirectories to limit the
number of files accessed.

Regards, 
Richard Schuh 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:59 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> It is a CMS architecture limit.  Do not make me go to IBMIN.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a 
> backup product that might help to tell you that it is?
> 
> 
> JR (Steven) Imler
> CA
> Senior Sustaining Engineer
> Tel: +1-703-708-3479
> steven.im...@ca.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
> On
> > Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
> ACCESSed?
> > 
> > We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996 
> > files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
> these
> > minidisks concurrently.
> > DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> > 
> > Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
> 16M,
> > does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files 
> will go on a 
> > minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
> before
> > it cannot be accessed?
> 

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Neale Ferguson]

How about using something like VMARC to "zip" files > 1 week old into weekly
archives on the same minidisk that are easily expanded when needed?


On 4/29/09 12:44 PM, "James Stracka (DHL US)"  wrote:

> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk.  The
> application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online.  Given
> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
> That would be exactly a full working month.
> 
> I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more frequently
> or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an architectural limit.
> 
> By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They just
> contain a large amount of small files.

Shared File System Interface

[Gary M. Dennis]

Is there any documented APPC  interface to SFS for non-CMS operating
systems?

--.  .-  .-.  -.--

Gary Dennis

Re: Third level VSE

[Berry van Sleeuwen]

It looks like we were a bit fooled by the customer. After a lot of
discussion it looks like it is not only CPU constrained. And also, at
least in part, they already had problems in the old machine (and they
forgot to mention that little detail). It used to be just acceptable but
with the current overhead the performance dropped too much.

As for your questions, the LPAR is the only one in use on the hardware.
The VM guest is the only machine running any actual load. Others are
DIRMAINT and a CMS servicemachine, things like that. The VSE in the
guest VM is the top user. We did find that when the guest had been given
two CPU's. Most of the time the LPAR ran at just over 100%. Sometimes it
spiked to 120%. Once the VSE got it's second CPU and TD the load went up
to close to 200%. So we can conclude the VSE is the top user here.

Tomorrow we move the guest into an LPAR on a z9. Perhaps that would give
us a faster CP.

We have to look into the caching, like you and Kris suggested. Perhaps
that could also give us some additional speed. And we also look into
other configurations that would normally not do that much but it could
be just enough to get an acceptable performance.

Thanks, Berry.

Dieltiens Geert schreef:
> Well, if the problem is caused by a CPU-intensive CICS-program, then I
> would expect that you would have seen that problem on your old system as
> well (when we put a really CPU-intensive CICS-program into production,
> we get calls from frustrated users immediately). But you'll need a CICS
> monitor to look into the resource usage of your CICS-transactions...  
>
> A couple of other things to consider regarding CPU-resources:
> - is the VM/ESA guest the only (heavy) guest in the z/VM system or is
> competing with others? 
> - was CP SET SHARE set appropriately for this guest in the z/VM system?
> - did you provide QUICKDSP for the VM/ESA guest in the z/VM system? 
> - does the LPAR get all the resources you think its getting (check the
> Change Logical Partition Controls task or the activity display on the
> HMC)?
>
> Bye,
> Geert.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
> Behalf Of Berry van Sleeuwen
> Sent: woensdag 29 april 2009 13:51
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: Third level VSE
>
> Geert,
>
>   
>> Do you mean: attached to the VSE-guest or to the VM/ESA-guest?
>> If attached to the VSE-guest: is there still a real performance benefit
>> in attaching dasd to a 3rd level VSE-guest?
>> 
>
> Attached to the guest VM. I don't know if there would be any advantage
> in=
>
> attaching to third level, other than an as-is move to a new location.
>
>   
>> Anyway, MDC has the potential of giving your VSE-throughput a real
>> 
> boost=
>
>   
>> (it did in our case), so in order for the VSE-guest to benefit from MDC
>> in the VM/ESA system, I would: 
>> - in the first level z/VM: attach the dasd to the 2nd level VM/ESA
>> guest.
>> - in the 2nd level VM/ESA: attach the dasd to SYSTEM, and define
>> fullpack MDISKs for the 3rd level VSE guest. 
>> 
>
> But would that also boost non-IO load? I expect the problem is CPU load
> i=
> n
> some stupid program. In that case any MDC wouldn't help me for that. The
> only advantage would be an improvement of the batch processing.
>
>   
>> Also, if enough storage is available in VSE, add more buffers to your
>> CICS LSR-pools and/or database system.
>> 
>
> Storage enough. We have 512M spare in the host VM that isn't used. And
> th=
> e
> VSE runs NOPDS so we can increase it just by adding virtual storage in
> th=
> e
> VSE guest directory. If VM runs out of storage (or starts paging at any
> serious level) we can add virual storage to the guest VM.
>
> Regards, Berry.
> DISCLAIMER
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity 
> to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email 
> in error please notify postmas...@vanbreda.be
> This footnote also confirms that this email has been checked 
> for the presence of viruses.
>
> Informatica J.Van Breda & Co NV BTW BE 0427 908 174
>
>
>
>   

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

That idea might just fly.  Thank you.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Neale Ferguson
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:49 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?

How about using something like VMARC to "zip" files > 1 week old into
weekly
archives on the same minidisk that are easily expanded when needed?


On 4/29/09 12:44 PM, "James Stracka (DHL US)" 
wrote:

> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk.  The
> application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online.  Given
> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
> That would be exactly a full working month.
> 
> I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more
frequently
> or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an architectural limit.
> 
> By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They just
> contain a large amount of small files.

Re: Shared File System Interface

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 12:51 EDT, "Gary M. Dennis" 
 wrote:
> Is there any documented APPC  interface to SFS for non-CMS operating 
systems?

No.  Non-CMS access to SFS is via NFS.

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: Shared File System Interface

[Dave Jones]

Nope, afraid notbut it would be way cool if Linux, as a guest of 
z/VM, could read/write SFS directories and files.


Gary M. Dennis wrote:
  Is there any documented APPC  interface to SFS for non-CMS operating 
systems?


--.  .-  .-.  -.--

Gary Dennis


--
Dave Jones
V/Soft
www.vsoft-software.com
Houston, TX
281.578.7544

Re: Shared File System Interface

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 01:06 EDT, Dave Jones 
 wrote:
> Nope, afraid notbut it would be way cool if Linux, as a guest of
> z/VM, could read/write SFS directories and files.

It can.  It just needs to use NFS to do it.

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: Third level VSE

[Rob van der Heij]

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Alan Altmark  wrote:

> An unassisted SIE instruction is trapped by the underlying z/VM system and
> "trimmed" to reflect what the underlying z/VM system knows about the guest
> who issued the SIE.  Then that underlying z/VM issues a SIE.  With few
> exceptions, all nth-level guests run under real SIE.  Of course, you
> haven't got much of a time slice and there are fewer guest pages resident
> in SIE-accessible memory, so you don't stay in SIE very long.  Hence the
> poor performance.  But while that guest is in SIE, he's running at full
> speed.  There are some kinds of pre/post-real SIE conditions that have to
> be simulated by each underlying z/VM, so sometimes you never reach real
> SIE.

You need to know where to look to see spot the recognize the overhead.

I'm not sure you're saying the same, but my experience is that the
overhead is not because of the SIE instruction. Surely CP needs to
massage the SIEBKs to get things right, but that's not the big cost.
It's because of the reduced function of some things under V/SIE.

With Linux running 3rd level for example, it appears the big hit is
the way copy-on-write works in that you get a lot of program checks.
As long as you don't go beyond the hardware support, the program check
can be reflected to the guest itself. But with more levels of DAT
stacked, the result is that first level CP has to emulate DAT as if we
had no hardware support and do the shadow table smoke and mirrors by
hand. So you should see overhead on the 1st level CP. 2nd level CP is
unaware of what is happening and will merely assume CPU contention.

I'd expect Berry to be more lucky with VSE maybe less heave do
deliberate program checks, especially when VSE itself does not page.
As always, one would need to look at real data...

Rob
-- 
Rob van der Heij
Velocity Software
http://www.velocitysoftware.com/

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Schuh, Richard]

Would the application be amenable to writing each day's files to a separate 
subdirectory and only accessing the ones needed at any given time? There could 
be 31 subdirectories, one for each possible day of the month. Before writing 
the file for any given day, that subdirectory could be cleared with or without 
being archived. The directories could also be used without being accessed. If 
only work days are needed, you would have to clear the ones corresponding to 
the weekends and holidays as appropriate.

Regards, 
Richard Schuh 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:44 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its 
> minidisk.  The application owner wants to keep a month's 
> worth of data online.  Given
> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
> That would be exactly a full working month.
> 
> I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more 
> frequently or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an 
> architectural limit. 
> 
> By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They 
> just contain a large amount of small files.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:22 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> If there were nothing else below the 16M line except for FST, 
> the maximum is 262144. Start with that number and subtract 64 
> for every page < 16M that is otherwise occupied. This is 
> obviously less than the 279711 files on your 2 disks. Is it 
> possible for you to limit what gets put in the FST by 
> accessing by mode number (acc 999 x/x * * x2)? Another 
> possibility would be to put the files in SFS and use them 
> without accessing the directories, or by using subdirectories 
> to limit the number of files accessed.
> 
> Regards,
> Richard Schuh 
> 
>  
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:59 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be 
> > ACCESSed?
> > 
> > It is a CMS architecture limit.  Do not make me go to IBMIN.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be 
> > ACCESSed?
> > 
> > Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a backup 
> > product that might help to tell you that it is?
> > 
> > 
> > JR (Steven) Imler
> > CA
> > Senior Sustaining Engineer
> > Tel: +1-703-708-3479
> > steven.im...@ca.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> > > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > > Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
> > ACCESSed?
> > > 
> > > We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another 
> with 126996 
> > > files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
> > these
> > > minidisks concurrently.
> > >   DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> > > 
> > > Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
> > 16M,
> > > does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files
> > will go on a
> > > minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
> > before
> > > it cannot be accessed?
> > 
> 

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

I had proposed that but SFS is not used here so that is a hard sell.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:42 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?

Would the application be amenable to writing each day's files to a
separate subdirectory and only accessing the ones needed at any given
time? There could be 31 subdirectories, one for each possible day of the
month. Before writing the file for any given day, that subdirectory
could be cleared with or without being archived. The directories could
also be used without being accessed. If only work days are needed, you
would have to clear the ones corresponding to the weekends and holidays
as appropriate.

Regards, 
Richard Schuh 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:44 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its 
> minidisk.  The application owner wants to keep a month's 
> worth of data online.  Given
> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
> That would be exactly a full working month.
> 
> I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more 
> frequently or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an 
> architectural limit. 
> 
> By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They 
> just contain a large amount of small files.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:22 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> If there were nothing else below the 16M line except for FST, 
> the maximum is 262144. Start with that number and subtract 64 
> for every page < 16M that is otherwise occupied. This is 
> obviously less than the 279711 files on your 2 disks. Is it 
> possible for you to limit what gets put in the FST by 
> accessing by mode number (acc 999 x/x * * x2)? Another 
> possibility would be to put the files in SFS and use them 
> without accessing the directories, or by using subdirectories 
> to limit the number of files accessed.
> 
> Regards,
> Richard Schuh 
> 
>  
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:59 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be 
> > ACCESSed?
> > 
> > It is a CMS architecture limit.  Do not make me go to IBMIN.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be 
> > ACCESSed?
> > 
> > Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a backup 
> > product that might help to tell you that it is?
> > 
> > 
> > JR (Steven) Imler
> > CA
> > Senior Sustaining Engineer
> > Tel: +1-703-708-3479
> > steven.im...@ca.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> > > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > > Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
> > ACCESSed?
> > > 
> > > We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another 
> with 126996 
> > > files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
> > these
> > > minidisks concurrently.
> > >   DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> > > 
> > > Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
> > 16M,
> > > does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files
> > will go on a
> > > minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
> > before
> > > it cannot be accessed?
> > 
> 

Re: Shared File System Interface

[Dave Jones]

Well, yes, Alan, you're correct. I meant be able to read/write SFS files 
directly from Linux, without the overhead and pain involved in getting 
it set up.


Alan Altmark wrote:
On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 01:06 EDT, Dave Jones 
 wrote:

Nope, afraid notbut it would be way cool if Linux, as a guest of
z/VM, could read/write SFS directories and files.


It can.  It just needs to use NFS to do it.

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott


--
Dave Jones
V/Soft
www.vsoft-software.com
Houston, TX
281.578.7544

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Rich Greenberg]

On: Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:44:03AM -0700,James Stracka (DHL US) Wrote:

} This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk.  The
} application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online.  Given
} 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
} That would be exactly a full working month.
} 
} I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more frequently
} or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an architectural limit. 
} 
} By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They just
} contain a large amount of small files.

One possible way around this might be to instead of creating the 10,000
files seperately, each time the hour changes, create a new maclib and
start adding members.  If the 10k creations are uniform across the 24
hours, that would be 24 maclibs, each with 416 members.  A restriction
is that AFAIK, the members of a maclib must be 80 byte fixed lenghh
records.

Not sure this would be practical, just tossing it out as a possibility.
If you need V records, perhaps you could fake a loadlib.

-- 
Rich Greenberg  N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com  + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time.  N6LRT  I speak for myself & my dogs only.VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians  Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Peter . Webb]

Would it be possible to set up a separate minidisk for each day of the
month then? Possibly have your directory manager automatically shuffle
addresses at midnight so they always link to, say 191?

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
Sent: April 29, 2009 13:50
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?

I had proposed that but SFS is not used here so that is a hard sell.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:42 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?

Would the application be amenable to writing each day's files to a
separate subdirectory and only accessing the ones needed at any given
time? There could be 31 subdirectories, one for each possible day of the
month. Before writing the file for any given day, that subdirectory
could be cleared with or without being archived. The directories could
also be used without being accessed. If only work days are needed, you
would have to clear the ones corresponding to the weekends and holidays
as appropriate.

Regards, 
Richard Schuh 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:44 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its 
> minidisk.  The application owner wants to keep a month's 
> worth of data online.  Given
> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
> That would be exactly a full working month.
> 
> I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more 
> frequently or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an 
> architectural limit. 
> 
> By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They 
> just contain a large amount of small files.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:22 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be ACCESSed?
> 
> If there were nothing else below the 16M line except for FST, 
> the maximum is 262144. Start with that number and subtract 64 
> for every page < 16M that is otherwise occupied. This is 
> obviously less than the 279711 files on your 2 disks. Is it 
> possible for you to limit what gets put in the FST by 
> accessing by mode number (acc 999 x/x * * x2)? Another 
> possibility would be to put the files in SFS and use them 
> without accessing the directories, or by using subdirectories 
> to limit the number of files accessed.
> 
> Regards,
> Richard Schuh 
> 
>  
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:59 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be 
> > ACCESSed?
> > 
> > It is a CMS architecture limit.  Do not make me go to IBMIN.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
> Cannot be 
> > ACCESSed?
> > 
> > Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a backup 
> > product that might help to tell you that it is?
> > 
> > 
> > JR (Steven) Imler
> > CA
> > Senior Sustaining Engineer
> > Tel: +1-703-708-3479
> > steven.im...@ca.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
> > > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> > > Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
> > ACCESSed?
> > > 
> > > We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another 
> with 126996 
> > > files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
> > these
> > > minidisks concurrently.
> > >   DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
> > > 
> > > Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below
> > 16M,
> > > does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files
> > will go on a
> > > minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
> > before
> > > it cannot be accessed?
> > 
> 


The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Brian Nielsen]

You could do the same thing with minidisks - just define 31 of them and 

choose which on to link to based on the day.

Brian Nielsen


On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:50:27 -0700, James Stracka (DHL US) 
 wrote:

>I had proposed that but SFS is not used here so that is a hard sell.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
>Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
>Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:42 AM
>To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
>ACCESSed?
>
>Would the application be amenable to writing each day's files to a
>separate subdirectory and only accessing the ones needed at any given
>time? There could be 31 subdirectories, one for each possible day of the

>month. Before writing the file for any given day, that subdirectory
>could be cleared with or without being archived. The directories could
>also be used without being accessed. If only work days are needed, you
>would have to clear the ones corresponding to the weekends and holidays
>as appropriate.
>
>Regards, 
>Richard Schuh 
>
> 
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
>> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:44 AM
>> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
>> Cannot be ACCESSed?
>> 
>> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its 
>> minidisk.  The application owner wants to keep a month's 
>> worth of data online.  Given
>> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.

>> That would be exactly a full working month.
>> 
>> I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more 
>> frequently or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an 
>> architectural limit. 
>> 
>> By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They 
>> just contain a large amount of small files.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
>> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:22 AM
>> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
>> Cannot be ACCESSed?
>> 
>> If there were nothing else below the 16M line except for FST, 
>> the maximum is 262144. Start with that number and subtract 64 
>> for every page < 16M that is otherwise occupied. This is 
>> obviously less than the 279711 files on your 2 disks. Is it 
>> possible for you to limit what gets put in the FST by 
>> accessing by mode number (acc 999 x/x * * x2)? Another 
>> possibility would be to put the files in SFS and use them 
>> without accessing the directories, or by using subdirectories 
>> to limit the number of files accessed.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Richard Schuh 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
>> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)

>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:59 AM
>> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
>> Cannot be 
>> > ACCESSed?
>> > 
>> > It is a CMS architecture limit.  Do not make me go to IBMIN.
>> > 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
>> > [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Imler, Steven J
>> > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:44 AM
>> > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> > Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It 
>> Cannot be 
>> > ACCESSed?
>> > 
>> > Are you sure the minidisk is not corrupted?  Do you have a backup 

>> > product that might help to tell you that it is?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > JR (Steven) Imler
>> > CA
>> > Senior Sustaining Engineer
>> > Tel: +1-703-708-3479
>> > steven.im...@ca.com
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > > -Original Message-
>> > > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System 
>> [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
>> > On
>> > > Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
>> > > To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>> > > Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
>> > ACCESSed?
>> > > 
>> > > We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another 
>> with 126996 
>> > > files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of
>> > these
>> > > minidisks concurrently.
>> > >  DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded
>> > > 
>> > > Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below

>> > 16M,
>> > > does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files
>> > will go on a
>> > > minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern)
>> > before
>> > > it cannot be accessed?
>> > 
>> 
>
=
===

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[John P. Baker]

John P. Baker

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996
files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of these
minidisks concurrently.
DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded

Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below 16M,
does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files will go on a
minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern) before
it cannot be accessed? 

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[John P. Baker]

Can you migrate the application to SFS?  You could have a 2nd-level
directory for each month, and a 3rd-level directory for each day of the
month.

John P. Baker

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:36 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

We have a minidisk with 152715 files on it and another with 126996
files.  Since the FAT is below the line, we cannot access both of these
minidisks concurrently.
DMSACP109S Virtual storage capacity exceeded

Given that the "S" and "Y" disks as well as CMS take storage below 16M,
does anybody have an idea of approximately how many files will go on a
minidisk (I suppose an SFS directory will have the same concern) before
it cannot be accessed? 

Re: Third level VSE

[Tom Duerbusch]

And what are the inhibitors that prevent you from running VSE 2.3 directly 
under z/VM 5.4?

I have VSE 2.3.2 running on z/VM 5.2 on a z/890.  I've been toying with the 
idea of upgrading VM this summer.  Are there other products that are running 
under VM/ESA 2.2 that need to be on the same VM system as the VSE system?

Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting

>>> Berry van Sleeuwen  4/29/2009 1:52 AM >>>
Hello listers,

Before I begin, yes I know third level will cost us. Since SIE doesn't get
down to the VSE we do not benefit from that and all CPU has to be emulated.

We have moved an old VM/ESA 2.2 with VSE 2.3 to a new z890 machine.
Obviously this level of VM can't run on zseries so we have put the VM into
an zVM 5.4 LPAR. It does run and since they came from an old (ESCON) machine
the batch (mostly IO) runs very good.

We did expect to see some performance penalties and we already sized the
machine to twice the MIPS they used to have. And for the most part the guest
VM has a TV ratio between 1.9 and 2.5. Usually during batch the TV is just
above 2 but during online hours we also see a TV above 3. There are a few
transactions that have a very bad performance. (from 2 seconds to 2.5
minutes) The time also depends on the other load in the VSE (or perhaps even
in the CICS).

We have been playing with lots of settings. Such as, two virtual CPU's in
the guest, two virtual CPU's in VSE with TurboDispatcher, one dedicated CPU
to the guest VM.

Any ideas on how to speed up the guests? Other than migrating the guest VM
to the zVM 5.4 host?

TIA, Berry.

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Russ Burtnett]

Another tool you might want to take a look at is FCOPY.   FCOPY is simila
r
to VMARC and both of them allow you to add files to an existing archive. 

The nice thing about FCOPY is it has "filelist" type of interface so you 
can
see the files in a packlib and even xedit them directly from it.

Re: Third level VSE

[Edward M Martin]

Hello Barry,

I have been watching this thread.

I agree with Tom.  Why not have VSE 2.3 run under z/VM 5.4 and have
VM/ESA 2.2 run under z/VM 5.4 if need be?


Ed Martin
Aultman Health Foundation
330-363-5050
ext 35050

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Tom Duerbusch
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:42 AM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Third level VSE

And what are the inhibitors that prevent you from running VSE 2.3
directly under z/VM 5.4?

I have VSE 2.3.2 running on z/VM 5.2 on a z/890.  I've been toying with
the idea of upgrading VM this summer.  Are there other products that are
running under VM/ESA 2.2 that need to be on the same VM system as the
VSE system?

Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting

Packing Methods

[Schuh, Richard]

We are working on a DR process. I notice that the defaults for a Hidro backup 
include the PACK option which tells Hidro to pack, or condense in some fashion, 
its output. The output is being written to 3590E drives. It appears that there 
are three choices we can make for condensing the data: software only, hardware 
only, or a combination of the two (uncompacted was purposely omitted from the 
list). Which is likely to give the best results? Does software compaction 
produce consistently lower output volumes than letting the drive do it? Is 
there anything to be gained by using both h/w and s/w? Obviously, software 
compaction costs in terms of cpu time. The question is, is it worth the time 
spent?


Regards,
Richard Schuh

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Huegel, Thomas]

I'll second the FCOPY idea. I use it everyday to 'archive' my CMS users
files, and the FILELIST type of interface makes it very easy for them to
recover lost data.


BTW for this problem too bad VSAM isn't supported in VM anymore..

 

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Russ Burtnett
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 1:21 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be
ACCESSed?

Another tool you might want to take a look at is FCOPY.   FCOPY is
simila=
r
to VMARC and both of them allow you to add files to an existing archive.
=

The nice thing about FCOPY is it has "filelist" type of interface so you
= can see the files in a packlib and even xedit them directly from it.

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Rob van der Heij]

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:44 PM, James Stracka (DHL US)
 wrote:

> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk.  The
> application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online.  Given
> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
> That would be exactly a full working month.

I assume there's a pattern in the name or type of the files they
create, so you could do something like this

ACCESS 200 E/E   200904* *

The restrictions of FSTs under the line would apply to the subset that
you make visible with the mask. If

Rob

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[David Boyes]

One thing though: There is a non-VM version of VMARC that can extract the files 
on other platforms (Leland rocks!). I know of no utility that can extract FCOPY 
archives on other platforms.


On 4/29/09 3:00 PM, "Huegel, Thomas"  wrote:

I'll second the FCOPY idea. I use it everyday to 'archive' my CMS users
files, and the FILELIST type of interface makes it very easy for them to
recover lost data.

Re: Defining SCSI devices for Linux guest

[Dave Jones]

Bobby, all you have to do is dedicate the FCP channels that go to the
SAN to the Linux guests you want to be able to use them. Let's say  you
have an FCP channel defined in your IOCP like so:
 CHPID PATH=(CSS(0),20),SHARED,*
PARTITION=((LAPR1,LPAR2,LPAR3),(=)),   *
PCHID=130,TYPE=FCP

 CNTLUNIT CUNUMBR=2000,PATH=((CSS(0),20)),UNIT=FCP
 IODEVICE ADDRESS=(2000,064),CUNUMBR=(2000),UNIT=FCP

CP will see 64 FCP channels at addresses starting at 2000...you can 
simple DEDICATE one or more of those addresses to your Linux guest. In 
USER DIRECT:

   DEDICATE  F000 2000
This would create a virtual FCP device at address F000 for the guest, 
and associate the real FCPd device at address 2000 with it. Linux would 
then use that device using it's built in support for SCSI.


Defining SCSI devices as EDEVs (9336 FBA DASD) offers the advantage that 
it makes managing the space easier, since VM tools (DIRMAINT, e.g.) can 
be used.


Hope this helped.
Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E] wrote:

We have a old, small SAN for testing. Previously all of our disk
storage has been on dasd (3390-9). We have figured out how to access
the SAN, build a file system on it and mount the filesystem on one of
our test servers. Now we would like to build a Linux guest on this
SAN. Is there a way to define SCSI devices in user direct so they can
be available to the guest? I see I can use 9336 emulation but that
seems like a backwards step. Keeping the 191 disk on dasd is OK.

Bobby Bauer Center for Information Technology National Institutes of
Health Bethesda, MD 20892-5628 301-594-7474




--
Dave Jones
V/Soft
www.vsoft-software.com
Houston, TX
281.578.7544

Using PIPE to SUM a Column

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

I have a file that has numeric data in column 3 that I want to sum.

Not realizing there was no PIPE SUM stage I tried:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | SUM | VAR TOTAL

Which of course gave:

FPLSCB027E Entry point SUM not found
FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 4 of pipeline 1
FPLSCA001I ... Running "SUM"
Ready(-0027); T=0.01/0.01 13:44:13


Is there a way to SUM the data within a PIPE instead of doing:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | STEM VALUE.
Total = 0
Do ix = 1 to value.0
   Total = total + value.ix
end

Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

[Huegel, Thomas]

There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
exactly what you want. 

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:05 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

I have a file that has numeric data in column 3 that I want to sum.

Not realizing there was no PIPE SUM stage I tried:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | SUM | VAR TOTAL

Which of course gave:

FPLSCB027E Entry point SUM not found
FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 4 of pipeline 1 FPLSCA001I ... Running
"SUM"
Ready(-0027); T=0.01/0.01 13:44:13


Is there a way to SUM the data within a PIPE instead of doing:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | STEM VALUE.
Total = 0
Do ix = 1 to value.0
   Total = total + value.ix
end

Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

[Kris Buelens]

Untested:

PIPE    |SPECS PrintOnly EOF n: w3 . set #0+=n EOF Print #0 1| 

Issue PIPE AHELP SPECTUT to learn more about this SPECS feature

2009/4/29 Huegel, Thomas :
> There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
> exactly what you want.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
> Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:05 PM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Using PIPE to SUM a Column
>
> I have a file that has numeric data in column 3 that I want to sum.
>
> Not realizing there was no PIPE SUM stage I tried:
>
> PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | SUM | VAR TOTAL
>
> Which of course gave:
>
> FPLSCB027E Entry point SUM not found
> FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 4 of pipeline 1 FPLSCA001I ... Running
> "SUM"
> Ready(-0027); T=0.01/0.01 13:44:13
>
>
> Is there a way to SUM the data within a PIPE instead of doing:
>
> PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | STEM VALUE.
> Total = 0
> Do ix = 1 to value.0
>   Total = total + value.ix
> end
>



-- 
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support

Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

[Brian Nielsen]

And a more general solution for any manipulations needed in a stage is to
 
write a REXX stage that does exactly what you want.

Brian Nielsen


On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:19:41 -0500, Huegel, Thomas  

wrote:

>There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
>exactly what you want. 
>
>-Original Message-
>From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
>Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
>Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:05 PM
>To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
>Subject: Using PIPE to SUM a Column
>
>I have a file that has numeric data in column 3 that I want to sum.
>
>Not realizing there was no PIPE SUM stage I tried:
>
>PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | SUM | VAR TOTAL
>
>Which of course gave:
>
>FPLSCB027E Entry point SUM not found
>FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 4 of pipeline 1 FPLSCA001I ... Running
>"SUM"
>Ready(-0027); T=0.01/0.01 13:44:13
>
>
>Is there a way to SUM the data within a PIPE instead of doing:
>
>PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | STEM VALUE.
>Total = 0
>Do ix = 1 to value.0
>   Total = total + value.ix
>end
>
=
===

Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

[Dave Jones]

Hi, James.

There's no explicit SUM stage because that functionality is built into 
the SPECS stageyou might try something like this (untested):


specs
  a: word 3 ./* grab third word in record */
  set #0+=a  /* add it to counter 0 */
  eof/* at EOF   */
  /Total:/ 1 /* output text "Total" in column 1 */
  print #0 next  /* followed by the sum  */


Good luck.

James Stracka (DHL US) wrote:

I have a file that has numeric data in column 3 that I want to sum.

Not realizing there was no PIPE SUM stage I tried:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | SUM | VAR TOTAL

Which of course gave:

FPLSCB027E Entry point SUM not found
FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 4 of pipeline 1
FPLSCA001I ... Running "SUM"
Ready(-0027); T=0.01/0.01 13:44:13


Is there a way to SUM the data within a PIPE instead of doing:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | STEM VALUE.
Total = 0
Do ix = 1 to value.0
   Total = total + value.ix
end


--
Dave Jones
V/Soft
www.vsoft-software.com
Houston, TX
281.578.7544

Re: SWAPGEN

[Barton Robinson]

giving real disks to swap is a real waste of resource.  It is much 
better to take the "extra disk resource" that you allocate but never 
want to use, and assign it to z/VM paging to enhance your paging 
subsystem.  Then define two vdisks for swap, prioritize them, and set an 
alert when the 2nd disk is being used.


Martin, Terry R. (LOCKHEED MARTIN Performance Engineering/CTR) (CTR) wrote:

Hi

 

I am using SWAPGEN to define by z/Linux VDISKS I also want to define a 
real disk for swap. My question is can I use SWAPGEN to define a swap on 
real DASD? If you have an example of the control card syntax to 
accomplish this that would be great?   

 


//Thank You,//

 


//Terry Martin//

//Lockheed Martin - Information Technology//

//z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning//

//Cell - 443 632-4191//

//Work - 410 786-0386//

//terry.ma...@cms.hhs.gov //

 

Re: SWAPGEN

[Scott Rohling]

Maybe --  but having a real disk (and setting an alert for that) helps
isolate the issue to a single guest rather than affecting critical shared
resources (in this case memory/paging) when a guest starts swapping more
than normal or than it 'should'.

I like the idea of having a 'failover' swap area on real disk -- whether you
have a single VDISK or 2 prioritized ahead of it.  I guess whether it's
waste of resource depends on your POV..  But your point is taken..

Scott

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Barton Robinson <
bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com> wrote:

> giving real disks to swap is a real waste of resource.  It is much better
> to take the "extra disk resource" that you allocate but never want to use,
> and assign it to z/VM paging to enhance your paging subsystem.  Then define
> two vdisks for swap, prioritize them, and set an alert when the 2nd disk is
> being used.
>
> Martin, Terry R. (LOCKHEED MARTIN Performance Engineering/CTR) (CTR) wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> I am using SWAPGEN to define by z/Linux VDISKS I also want to define a
>> real disk for swap. My question is can I use SWAPGEN to define a swap on
>> real DASD? If you have an example of the control card syntax to accomplish
>> this that would be great?
>>
>> //Thank You,//
>>
>>
>> //Terry Martin//
>>
>> //Lockheed Martin - Information Technology//
>>
>> //z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning//
>>
>> //Cell - 443 632-4191//
>>
>> //Work - 410 786-0386//
>>
>> //terry.ma...@cms.hhs.gov //
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Jim Bohnsack]

Or FCOPY which I think is on the VM Download Disk.
Jim

Neale Ferguson wrote:

  How about using something like VMARC to "zip" files > 1 week old into weekly
archives on the same minidisk that are easily expanded when needed?


On 4/29/09 12:44 PM, "James Stracka (DHL US)"  wrote:

  
  
This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk.  The
application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online.  Given
64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
That would be exactly a full working month.

I am trying to convince the application owner to archive more frequently
or go to a weekly basis as it is approaching an architectural limit.

By the way, there is noting wrong with either minidisk.  They just
contain a large amount of small files.

  
  
  


-- 
Jim Bohnsack
Cornell University
(972) 596-6377 home/office
(972) 342-5823 cell
jab...@cornell.edu

Re: Defining SCSI devices for Linux guest

[Mark Post]

>>> On 4/29/2009 at 12:39 PM, "Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]" 
>>> 
wrote: 
-snip-
> Now we would like to build a Linux guest on this SAN. Is there a way to 
> define SCSI devices in user direct so they can be available to the guest? I 
> see I can use 9336 emulation but that seems like a backwards step.

Simply DEDICATE an FCP device to the guest and start the install.


Mark Post

Re: Defining SCSI devices for Linux guest

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 04/29/2009 at 12:42 EDT, "Bauer, Bobby (NIH/CIT) [E]" 
 wrote:
> We have a old, small SAN for testing. Previously all of our disk storage 
has 
> been on dasd (3390-9). We have figured out how to access the SAN, build 
a file 
> system on it and mount the filesystem on one of our test servers.
> Now we would like to build a Linux guest on this SAN. Is there a way to 
define 
> SCSI devices in user direct so they can be available to the guest? I see 
I can 
> use 9336 emulation but that seems like a backwards step.
> Keeping the 191 disk on dasd is OK.

You don't define SCSI devices in USER DIRECT.  What you *do* define is the 
device (FCP subchannel) that a guest uses to access the SAN. 

Place one of the following in the Linux guest's directory entry:
  DEDICATE vdev rdev
or
  COMMAND ATTACH rdev TO * vdev

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

Thanks to all who responded.  Kris's solution worked best for my
problem.

  "PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A ",
 "| SPECS PRINTONLY EOF N: W3 . SET #0+=N EOF PRINT #0 1 ",
 "| STRIP",
 "| VAR TOTAL"

Thomas' TABULATE solution also worked:

  "PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A ",
 "| SPECS WORD 3 ",
 "| TABULATE SUM 1-9 ",
 "| STRIP",
 "| VAR TOTAL"

I must issue PIPE AHELP SPECTUT to learn more about this SPECS feature.

Jim


-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Kris Buelens
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:27 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

Untested:

PIPE    |SPECS PrintOnly EOF n: w3 . set #0+=n EOF Print #0 1| 

Issue PIPE AHELP SPECTUT to learn more about this SPECS feature

2009/4/29 Huegel, Thomas :
> There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
> exactly what you want.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]
On
> Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:05 PM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Using PIPE to SUM a Column
>
> I have a file that has numeric data in column 3 that I want to sum.
>
> Not realizing there was no PIPE SUM stage I tried:
>
> PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | SUM | VAR TOTAL
>
> Which of course gave:
>
> FPLSCB027E Entry point SUM not found
> FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 4 of pipeline 1 FPLSCA001I ...
Running
> "SUM"
> Ready(-0027); T=0.01/0.01 13:44:13
>
>
> Is there a way to SUM the data within a PIPE instead of doing:
>
> PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | STEM VALUE.
> Total = 0
> Do ix = 1 to value.0
>   Total = total + value.ix
> end
>



-- 
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[James Stracka (DHL US)]

Rob,

Thanks.  That works great when the disk is too full for the application to 
issue the EXEC to archive the files.  I have to see if we can work that into 
the code.

The major concern I had is to prevent the application from getting the 
following messages when it writes that file that breaks the camel's back:

DMSFRO159E Insufficient storage available to satisfy free storage request from 
0106D6B4
17:37:31  * MSG FROM SCXJXS  : DMSABE152T System abend 0F8 called from 01072580 
while UFDBUSY = 20; re-IPL CMS
HCPGIR450W CP entered; disabled wait PSW 000A 00F541B6


And thank you to those who suggested FCOPY and VMARC as well as the minidisk 
and directory solutions.

Jim

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf 
Of Rob van der Heij
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:36 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:44 PM, James Stracka (DHL US)
 wrote:

> This application puts about 10,000 files a day on its minidisk.  The
> application owner wants to keep a month's worth of data online.  Given
> 64 bytes per file and 14M usable, that is approximately 230,000 files.
> That would be exactly a full working month.

I assume there's a pattern in the name or type of the files they
create, so you could do something like this

ACCESS 200 E/E   200904* *

The restrictions of FSTs under the line would apply to the subset that
you make visible with the mask. If

Rob

Re: Third level VSE

[Berry van Sleeuwen]

Ed (and Tom),

Well, to be honest, about a year ago I already suggested to try to
migrate into an zVM 5.x. And just before we moved the VM 2.2 I did
repeat that suggestion. But according to some it would be too much of a
risk. I guess it's a political risk, not a technical risk. And besides
that, we were given too little time to plan a test on zVM before the
move. But that's just my opinion. If it was up to me we would be on 5.4
next week.

Anyway, as far as I can see it (I don have access to the detailed
internals of the VM system) the only two risks would be ACF2 and VTUBES.
And there is some external package I can't determine what risk it would
have on zVM 5.4, I don't know if it is just CMS or that it does have
some interaction that would require some VM/ESA level instead of zVM.
ACF2 would require a new release and I don't know for sure what it would
mean for VM 5.4 and VSE 2.3, if anything. But in all cases, we could
just move the USER DIRECT into our host zVM 5.4 and try it. Perhaps we
will try this in the next month but then we do need approval of those
who are responsible for the service.

Bottom line, the move of the system supposed to be as-is to minimize
risks. For several reasons we now do not meet the requirements of the
customer. Some were more or less expected but some realy do not meet our
and their expectations.

Regards, Berry.

Edward M Martin schreef:
> Hello Barry,
>
> I have been watching this thread.
>
> I agree with Tom.  Why not have VSE 2.3 run under z/VM 5.4 and have
> VM/ESA 2.2 run under z/VM 5.4 if need be?
>
>
> Ed Martin
> Aultman Health Foundation
> 330-363-5050
> ext 35050
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
> Behalf Of Tom Duerbusch
> Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:42 AM
> To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
> Subject: Re: Third level VSE
>
> And what are the inhibitors that prevent you from running VSE 2.3
> directly under z/VM 5.4?
>
> I have VSE 2.3.2 running on z/VM 5.2 on a z/890.  I've been toying with
> the idea of upgrading VM this summer.  Are there other products that are
> running under VM/ESA 2.2 that need to be on the same VM system as the
> VSE system?
>
> Tom Duerbusch
> THD Consulting
>
>
>   

PIPE SPECS (was Using PIPE to SUM a Column)

[Berry van Sleeuwen]

I do have a question. Were could I find documentation on those SPECS
statements? So far I haven't found documentation on this. The CMS help
doesn't provide me with this level of SPECS knowledge.

Regards, Berry.

Dave Jones schreef:
> Hi, James.
>
> There's no explicit SUM stage because that functionality is built into
> the SPECS stageyou might try something like this (untested):
>
> specs
>   a: word 3 ./* grab third word in record */
>   set #0+=a  /* add it to counter 0 */
>   eof/* at EOF   */
>   /Total:/ 1 /* output text "Total" in column 1 */
>   print #0 next  /* followed by the sum  */
>
>
> Good luck.

Re: SWAPGEN

[Rich Smrcina]

The biggest benefit of z/VM is to virtualize resources as much as
possible.  Dedicating a resource to a specific guest is a big waste and
benefits one to the detriment of all the rest.  It would be much better
to allocate all virtual disk swap for the Linux guests, then allocate
the disk that would have been dedicated to swap as page space.  That
way everyone wins.

Scott Rohling wrote:
Maybe --  but having a real disk (and setting an alert for
that) helps isolate the issue to a single guest rather than affecting
critical shared resources (in this case memory/paging) when a guest
starts swapping more than normal or than it 'should'.
  
I like the idea of having a 'failover' swap area on real disk --
whether you have a single VDISK or 2 prioritized ahead of it.  I guess
whether it's waste of resource depends on your POV..  But your point is
taken..
  
Scott
  
  On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Barton
Robinson 
wrote:
  giving
real disks to swap is a real waste of resource.  It is much better to
take the "extra disk resource" that you allocate but never want to use,
and assign it to z/VM paging to enhance your paging subsystem.  Then
define two vdisks for swap, prioritize them, and set an alert when the
2nd disk is being used.


Martin, Terry R. (LOCKHEED MARTIN Performance Engineering/CTR) (CTR)
wrote:


  
  Hi
  
 
I am using SWAPGEN to define by z/Linux VDISKS I also want to define a
real disk for swap. My question is can I use SWAPGEN to define a swap
on real DASD? If you have an example of the control card syntax to
accomplish this that would be great?   
 
//Thank You,//
  
 
//Terry Martin//
  
//Lockheed Martin - Information Technology//
  
//z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning//
  
//Cell - 443 632-4191//
  
//Work - 410 786-0386//
  
  
  
//terry.ma...@cms.hhs.gov terry.ma...@cms.hhs.gov>//
  
 

  
  
  



-- 
Rich Smrcina

Re: SWAPGEN

[Scott Rohling]

Right - I got that from Barton's post.

Consider that there are times when using a real disk might make sense ..
I'm just not big on blanket statements...   Dedicating a resource is not
always a big waste and does not always benefit one to the detriment of the
rest.  It's a balancing act and it takes all the tricks in the bag to keep
it from falling over.  A real disk might make real sense with an
ill-behaved, unpredictable guest that is causing you swapping headaches.
That's what I was trying to point out..

Maybe I'd stay quiet if I saw some qualifiers like 'in general' when people
talk about BIG/REAL WASTE.   Guidelines are nice, but I object to them being
presented as 'rules'.

I'll shuddup now ;-)

Scott

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Rich Smrcina  wrote:

>  The biggest benefit of z/VM is to virtualize resources as much as
> possible.  Dedicating a resource to a specific guest is a big waste and
> benefits one to the detriment of all the rest.  It would be much better to
> allocate all virtual disk swap for the Linux guests, then allocate the disk
> that would have been dedicated to swap as page space.  That way everyone
> wins.
>
>
> Scott Rohling wrote:
>
> Maybe --  but having a real disk (and setting an alert for that) helps
> isolate the issue to a single guest rather than affecting critical shared
> resources (in this case memory/paging) when a guest starts swapping more
> than normal or than it 'should'.
>
> I like the idea of having a 'failover' swap area on real disk -- whether
> you have a single VDISK or 2 prioritized ahead of it.  I guess whether it's
> waste of resource depends on your POV..  But your point is taken..
>
> Scott
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Barton Robinson <
> bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com> wrote:
>
>> giving real disks to swap is a real waste of resource.  It is much better
>> to take the "extra disk resource" that you allocate but never want to use,
>> and assign it to z/VM paging to enhance your paging subsystem.  Then define
>> two vdisks for swap, prioritize them, and set an alert when the 2nd disk is
>> being used.
>>
>> Martin, Terry R. (LOCKHEED MARTIN Performance Engineering/CTR) (CTR)
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi
>>>
>>>
>>> I am using SWAPGEN to define by z/Linux VDISKS I also want to define a
>>> real disk for swap. My question is can I use SWAPGEN to define a swap on
>>> real DASD? If you have an example of the control card syntax to accomplish
>>> this that would be great?
>>>
>>> //Thank You,//
>>>
>>>
>>> //Terry Martin//
>>>
>>> //Lockheed Martin - Information Technology//
>>>
>>> //z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning//
>>>
>>> //Cell - 443 632-4191//
>>>
>>> //Work - 410 786-0386//
>>>
>>>  //terry.ma...@cms.hhs.gov //
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rich Smrcina
>

Re: SWAPGEN

[Doug Shupe]

Scott you hit this one on the head! 
Penguins multiply rapidly, real memory tends to stay constant ($$$). Sure VM is 
Great at paging but, like you say, impacting all the Penguins? YMMV. Alerts are 
a must either way. When memory is at a premium, one v-disk and the rest real 
disk is the way to go. DASD is not 'that' slow anymore. 
Doug
  - Original Message - 
  From: Scott Rohling 
  To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 18:13
  Subject: Re: SWAPGEN


  Maybe --  but having a real disk (and setting an alert for that) helps 
isolate the issue to a single guest rather than affecting critical shared 
resources (in this case memory/paging) when a guest starts swapping more than 
normal or than it 'should'.

  I like the idea of having a 'failover' swap area on real disk -- whether you 
have a single VDISK or 2 prioritized ahead of it.  I guess whether it's waste 
of resource depends on your POV..  But your point is taken..

  Scott


  On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Barton Robinson 
 wrote:

giving real disks to swap is a real waste of resource.  It is much better 
to take the "extra disk resource" that you allocate but never want to use, and 
assign it to z/VM paging to enhance your paging subsystem.  Then define two 
vdisks for swap, prioritize them, and set an alert when the 2nd disk is being 
used.


Martin, Terry R. (LOCKHEED MARTIN Performance Engineering/CTR) (CTR) wrote:

  Hi

   
  I am using SWAPGEN to define by z/Linux VDISKS I also want to define a 
real disk for swap. My question is can I use SWAPGEN to define a swap on real 
DASD? If you have an example of the control card syntax to accomplish this that 
would be great?   
   
  //Thank You,//

   
  //Terry Martin//

  //Lockheed Martin - Information Technology//

  //z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning//

  //Cell - 443 632-4191//

  //Work - 410 786-0386//


  //terry.ma...@cms.hhs.gov //

   

Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

[Dave Jones]

Jim, take a look at Chapter 14, SPECS Tutorial in the Author's Edition 
of the CMS Pipelines publication. An online PDF copy is available here:

http://vm.marist.edu/~pipeline/pipeline.pdf

SPECS is one of the more useful,stages, imho.

Have a good one.
James Stracka (DHL US) wrote:

Thanks to all who responded.  Kris's solution worked best for my
problem.

  "PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A ",
 "| SPECS PRINTONLY EOF N: W3 . SET #0+=N EOF PRINT #0 1 ",
 "| STRIP",
 "| VAR TOTAL"

Thomas' TABULATE solution also worked:

  "PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A ",
 "| SPECS WORD 3 ",
 "| TABULATE SUM 1-9 ",
 "| STRIP",
 "| VAR TOTAL"

I must issue PIPE AHELP SPECTUT to learn more about this SPECS feature.

Jim


-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On
Behalf Of Kris Buelens
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 2:27 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

Untested:

PIPE    |SPECS PrintOnly EOF n: w3 . set #0+=n EOF Print #0 1| 

Issue PIPE AHELP SPECTUT to learn more about this SPECS feature

2009/4/29 Huegel, Thomas :

There is a pipe stage on the VM download page TABULATE that will do
exactly what you want.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu]

On

Behalf Of James Stracka (DHL US)
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:05 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Using PIPE to SUM a Column

I have a file that has numeric data in column 3 that I want to sum.

Not realizing there was no PIPE SUM stage I tried:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | SUM | VAR TOTAL

Which of course gave:

FPLSCB027E Entry point SUM not found
FPLSCA003I ... Issued from stage 4 of pipeline 1 FPLSCA001I ...

Running

"SUM"
Ready(-0027); T=0.01/0.01 13:44:13


Is there a way to SUM the data within a PIPE instead of doing:

PIPE < JIMS TESTFILE A | SPECS WORD 3 | STEM VALUE.
Total = 0
Do ix = 1 to value.0
  Total = total + value.ix
end







--
Dave Jones
V/Soft
www.vsoft-software.com
Houston, TX
281.578.7544

Re: SWAPGEN

[Barton Robinson]

I look at a LOT of real data from a lot of real systems. So far, I've 
not seen an installation where vdisk (correctly defined) impacts other 
servers. If anybody has some, please send it (monitor data), I would 
like to understand how that happens. Though I have heard of SAP servers 
that do some rather strange things at startup.


Swap to virtual disk is better than 3 orders of magnitude faster than 
dasd, i call dasd slow, but guess it's relative.


I have seen an installation that correctly defined the two vdisks, one 
small, one large, set the alert, but reversed the priority so the big 
disk was used and the little one was not. That would NOT be the 
correctly defined vdisks.


Doug Shupe wrote:

Scott you hit this one on the head!
Penguins multiply rapidly, real memory tends to stay constant ($$$). 
Sure VM is Great at paging but, like you say, impacting all the 
Penguins? YMMV. Alerts are a must either way. When memory is at a 
premium, one v-disk and the rest real disk is the way to go. DASD is not 
'that' slow anymore. 
Doug


- Original Message -
*From:* Scott Rohling 
*To:* IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 29, 2009 18:13
*Subject:* Re: SWAPGEN

Maybe --  but having a real disk (and setting an alert for that)
helps isolate the issue to a single guest rather than affecting
critical shared resources (in this case memory/paging) when a guest
starts swapping more than normal or than it 'should'.

I like the idea of having a 'failover' swap area on real disk --
whether you have a single VDISK or 2 prioritized ahead of it.  I
guess whether it's waste of resource depends on your POV..  But your
point is taken..

Scott

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Barton Robinson
mailto:bar...@vm1.velocity-software.com>> wrote:

giving real disks to swap is a real waste of resource.  It is
much better to take the "extra disk resource" that you allocate
but never want to use, and assign it to z/VM paging to enhance
your paging subsystem.  Then define two vdisks for swap,
prioritize them, and set an alert when the 2nd disk is being used.


Martin, Terry R. (LOCKHEED MARTIN Performance Engineering/CTR)
(CTR) wrote:

Hi

 
I am using SWAPGEN to define by z/Linux VDISKS I also want

to define a real disk for swap. My question is can I use
SWAPGEN to define a swap on real DASD? If you have an
example of the control card syntax to accomplish this that
would be great?  
 
//Thank You,//


 
//Terry Martin//


//Lockheed Martin - Information Technology//

//z/OS & z/VM Systems - Performance and Tuning//

//Cell - 443 632-4191//

//Work - 410 786-0386//

//terry.ma...@cms.hhs.gov 
>//

 

Re: How Many Files Can Be on a Minidisk Before It Cannot be ACCESSed?

[Rob van der Heij]

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:40 AM, James Stracka (DHL US)
 wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Thanks.  That works great when the disk is too full for the application to 
> issue the EXEC to archive the files.  I have to see if we can work that into 
> the code.
>
> The major concern I had is to prevent the application from getting the 
> following messages when it writes that file that breaks the camel's back:

Ah yes, pretty dumb of me. Someone needs to write them to cause the
too large number of files.

Have you looked whether the other CMS leaves more room under the line?
(that is used to save DOSBAM and friends)
Also you should be able to get rid of some of the segments that you don't need.

Rob

Re: z/VM V5R4.0 dISABLED WAIT PSW 9051

[Crispin Hugo]

Trying to IPL one of our z/VM 5.4 systems and get disabled wait PSW
0002   9051

 

I can't find reference to what  9051 is and what may have caused it. Any
help please

 

Crispin Hugo

Systems Programmer

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