Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On 11/20/07 9:45 PM, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats why icelandic horses in iceland dont have any skin problems, they eat a lot of fish oils in the herring. when they come here they develop skin problems because here its just not within our culture to feed dried fish to horses in winter when the skin is dry from the wind and cold and dry winter air. Sometimes you can buy cod liver oil and smudge it into the skin or put it in their grain if they will tolerate it. nasi and Tivar hate cod liver oil. But nasi seems to like the way it makes him smell! Janice-- yipie tie yie yo Haha Janice, you are so funny. You know I would gladly import dried herring or whatever from Iceland if it would help my imported horses with their Summer Eczema! I really don't give a rats *^% about culture. I give my horses lots of flax but if anyone out there tells me that cod liver oil is better, I will try it. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
the way to tell if they are imported is to go out in winter and instead of feeding them grain or hay or anything, just put some dried herring out on the ice for them and if they wolf it down, they are You have to remember Janice. The only ice here is in our freezer. But I have heard that they eat Herring. Sounds funny. My husband read that somewhere. I will try to find some and try it on the ground. Lorraine Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On 11/21/07, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You have to remember Janice. The only ice here is in our freezer. But I have heard that they eat Herring. Sounds funny. My husband read that somewhere. I will try to find some and try it on the ground. Lorraine you could maybe use tuna. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 09:06:27AM -0500, Anneliese Virro wrote: or whatever from Iceland if it would help my imported horses with their Summer Eczema! I really don't give a rats *^% about culture. I give my horses lots of flax but if anyone out there tells me that cod liver oil is better, I will try it. stjarni doesn't suffer from sweet itch, but i have some nasty tendonitis. what works best for me is a mix of fish oil, flaxseed, and borage -- and believe me, i've tried everything in the omega-x group :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 06:58:39AM -0800, Lorraine wrote: our freezer. But I have heard that they eat Herring. Sounds funny. My husband read that somewhere. I will try to find some and try it on the ground. i have not tried herring for stjarni, but he is completely mad for tuna fish sandwiches --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
mad for tuna fish sandwiches --vicka No kidding? That is wild. I will have to try that. Lorraine Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On Wed, Nov 21, 2007 at 03:31:19PM -0800, Lorraine wrote: mad for tuna fish sandwiches --vicka No kidding? That is wild. I will have to try that. honest to goodness :) on whole wheat with potato chips, yet. --vicka (who quite likes those sammiches herself ;)
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
I just returned from the KY Icelandic Horse Show. I had a nice conversation First of all. I love KY. You lucky. That is very interesting info. That makes me wonder if Scooter is for sure imported. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On 11/20/07, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just returned from the KY Icelandic Horse Show. I had a nice conversation First of all. I love KY. You lucky. That is very interesting info. That makes me wonder if Scooter is for sure imported. Lorraine the way to tell if they are imported is to go out in winter and instead of feeding them grain or hay or anything, just put some dried herring out on the ice for them and if they wolf it down, they are imported. has to be herring, dried, not pickled. Pickled gives them bad breath. Tivar is from california and he will not eat the herring i put out in his water bucket when it freezes, but he likes nut mix with dates and sunflower seeds. nasi is from texas and he does not like herring but he likes dried beef jerky. My mccurdys are from alabama and they like dried pig entrails. Jaspar is from florida and hates herring but loves smoked mullet. Herring and mullet have a lot of omega three fish oils in them which is good for their skin. Thats why icelandic horses in iceland dont have any skin problems, they eat a lot of fish oils in the herring. when they come here they develop skin problems because here its just not within our culture to feed dried fish to horses in winter when the skin is dry from the wind and cold and dry winter air. Sometimes you can buy cod liver oil and smudge it into the skin or put it in their grain if they will tolerate it. nasi and Tivar hate cod liver oil. But nasi seems to like the way it makes him smell! Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
Because we are raising our second or third household of kids, I have one last daughter to coach in the selection of husbands. She's only 14 and has severe cerebral palsy, so I don't think she's leaving the nest any time soon. My advice, Don't choose them for their bodies. When they turn 65, they look like Dad. Actually, Dad is pretty curte for a short bald guy, but as our older daughter, whose first horrid husband was gorgeous, says, You forget really quickly what they look like. For horses, I do think correct conformation is a good thing, but I'd take temperment over gorgeous any day. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On 11/17/07 5:56 PM, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is Scooter an import? He is supposed to be. I have no papers but he was advertised as imported. Lorraine So I would guess that he is probably not really bolting but thinks that speed is what is wanted. I had an import from Iceland who would take off like a bat our of hell the minute you got on; she was also very sensitive to having her sides touched. I finally concluded that she was trained to do that in Iceland and that if she did not go and go fast right away, she got hit with a whip. So I rode her in a confined space and praised her for going slow. It took a while but she finally understood that speed is not always wanted. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
like a bat our of hell the minute you got on; she was also very sensitive to having her sides touched. I finally concluded that she was trained to do that in Iceland and that if she did not go and go fast right away, she got hit with a whip. Judy told me Icelandics were taught to go fast by hitting them. Well,that day he was being a butthead. He didn't want to go. So I wacked him with the reins on the shoulder. That is when he bucked and took off. Other times he was just scared. I don't know what the difference between bolting and running off are. But I don't like either of them Lorraine Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 07:54:27AM -0800, Lorraine wrote: Judy told me Icelandics were taught to go fast by hitting them. Well,that day he was being a butthead. He didn't want to go. So I wacked him with the reins on the shoulder. That is when he bucked and took off. Other times he was just scared. I don't know what the difference between bolting and running off are. But I don't like either of them stjarni (icelandic-trained by an actual icelander) has run away with me twice. once a belgian was bearing down behind us on a narrow trail, and he was getting out of the way, which was a good idea. the other time he was racing another horse (his subordinate in the paddock) and i got scared of the speed, and i tried to sit down and take up reins (his cue i think for the flying pace); he slowed down as soon as i asked him to turn. i ride with a dressage whip most of the time. i use it to ask stjarni to put his hindquarters or his foreleg here or there, or to brush of flies that are out of reach. it certainly does not make him go any faster. (i've tried that, times he was being a butthead and not wanting to go; it simply doesn't work for that. he did offer me some lovely lateral work instead, though :/ ) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On 11/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: stjarni (icelandic-trained by an actual icelander) has run away with me twice. none of my horses (redneck doofus trained by redneck doofus me) have ever bolted, bucked, or purposefully bitten me. Not even Tivar yesterday, being swarmed by yellowjackets. and of the 7 equines I own, 5 are rescues/rehabs. Fox was a rearer and a flipper but he only reared once with me, the first time I ever rode him. I can whack any of my horses as hard as I can between the ears with a crop (and I do it all the time to kill yellow flies etc) and they dont even blink. I've had two riding lessons. One from an idiot five years ago and one two weeks ago where I learned a little but ignored a lot. I dont know why horses act out, but i believe its like parelli says --- if you back a horse into a corner he is gonna show you whats in his bag of tricks. I dont think icelander trainers, per se, are evil, i personally just believe 99.9% of ALL trainers are satanically evil. I have seen dozens and dozens and I've only seen maybe two good ones. I have watched people give lessons all day at barn facilities and It has been my considered opinion that 99.9% of all people who give lessons are in it for the money, know less than almost anybody out there about horses who actually rides them all the time, and I've only seen one I would trust someone I cared about to take lessons from them. Most were money grubbing dressage queens graduated up from dressage brats, who decided when they were too old to take lessons anymore they needed to put out a shingle and give them. this is my experience, not only my opinion. your horse must have been new to you Lorraine when he did that, otherwise it would not have startled him for you to whack him. Or else someone in the past has seriously whacked him. My Fox was hit in the face with a fist and is so headshy I have to ask people to please not reach to pet him when I am in the saddle cause he throws his head in my face. The bad thing with some really smart horses is they never ever EVER forget what someone has taught them, good or bad. and I believe most horses won't hurt someone on purpose, deliberately. My most dangerous horse stonewall is my most loving. he just gets too freaked out sometimes and I cant get him back, he jumps and spins and whirls but stops, and the time he hurt me really bad by spinning he fought my husband trying to stay beside me when he tried to lead him away. he didnt mean it, but that doesnt make him less dangerous. he is my only horse that has been professionally trained. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On Mon, Nov 19, 2007 at 03:34:52PM -0600, Janice McDonald wrote: stjarni (icelandic-trained by an actual icelander) has run away with me twice. i think isolating this sentence makes it sound like stjarni was doing something wrong. i don't think that is correct. i think that when we were being run down by the out-of-control belgian, getting the heck out of the way as fast as possible was the best course of action. and i think my failure to correctly understand how to cue him to slow down was what allowed it to happen the second time; he was not actually out of control, as demonstrated by the fact that i could turn him and he slowed down for me as soon as i did that (i.e. asked for something in a way he understood). nor has he ever bucked or reared under saddle, nor bitten (except the stray unseen finger too-clumsily offering him a treat), nor kicked. i'm glad your horses are so nice, too. if you back a horse into a corner he is gonna show you whats in his bag of tricks. i don't think i've ever seen stjarni feel backed into a corner, except that time on the trail with the belgian galloping at us. he's a brave guy. he's handled being surrounded by police scooters with lights and sirens going and ten-year-olds crawling under his belly with the same mild aplomb. i've never met a more trustworthy horse. I have watched people give lessons all day at barn facilities and It has been my considered opinion that 99.9% of all people who give lessons are in it for the money, know less than almost anybody out there about horses who actually rides them all the time, and I've only seen one I would trust someone I cared about to take lessons from them. Most were money grubbing dressage queens graduated up from dressage brats, who decided when they were too old to take lessons anymore they needed to put out a shingle and give them. this is my experience, not only my opinion. i'll try not to take it personally, despite my dubeity about your ability to statistically handle numbers. i don't believe anyone is ever too old to take lessons; i have students older than myself, and i think most of my instructors have been younger than i. perhaps the fact that my state requires apprenticeships and exams and licensure for riding instructors raises the quality around here relative to where you live. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
He also said that in Iceland if a horse runs away they just kick it to make it go faster because it will eventually stop. That would work better in Iceland where you don't have trees to crash into! Cherie
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On 11/19/07, Cherie Mascis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He also said that in Iceland if a horse runs away they just kick it to make it go faster because it will eventually stop. That would work better in Iceland where you don't have trees to crash into! Or roads to cross with people that wouldn't know to slow down - the road is my biggest fear with a runaway horse.. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
Gunnar is Icelandic and his wife Stephanie is American. We did briefly discuss horse bolting and not wanting to stop. He said in Iceland all they want is for them to go and go really fast. A lot of large farms with really great competition riders never teach the horse to stop or stand still to get on. how about horses that are sold to the USA...do they take the time to teach them these USA manners before they are shipped? Raven Lucy Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On 11/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'll try not to take it personally, despite my dubeity about your ability to statistically handle numbers. --vicka and conversely I will try not to take that personally, especially since I am almost an idiot savant--- an idiot at numbers yet off the chart mutant -level genius at perceiving dubeity of logic in others janice.-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
you know, we all have our relatively limited experience with horses and every time I say it it makes lots of people MAD but I have known and ridden with maybe fifty arabians and of those only one was real gentle and quiet and laid back. I have ridden with maybe 75 paso finos and i have never met one that was sweet and laid back. I have ridden with literally hundred of walking horses and any of them from modern show bloodlines where completely hyper schitzos. (generator, pusher). This is my experience. So if I went looking for a horse to buy for me, I would not go looking for a paso fino or arab or modern bloodline walker. I would not go for an imported icelandic unless I could see it was real nice and calm and I rode it a few times. jmo Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
Gee Janice, tell us what you really think. I have only had the one walker, a Generator gelding. He's not completely schitzo, but not too far off the mark. He has improved with lots of consistant riding, but is still a very odd horse. I love him, by the way, but have to love the two Icelandic mares more. Neither has a nutty gene in her entire body. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On 18/11/2007, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have ridden with maybe 75 paso finos and i have never met one that was sweet and laid back. Our neighbours own paso finos and rode over here one day. The one mare looked quite nice, but the younger mare just looked like she wanted to land on the moon. I've since heard that their stallions can't be handled at all. There have been many farriers go over there to try trim them, but have been unsuccessful so far. I wonder what their feet look like by now? Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
I would not go for an imported icelandic unless I could see it was real nice and calm and I rode it a few times. I am REALLY mad. LOL. I didn't go looking. It just happened. Like my marriage. Lorraine Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On 11/18/07, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would not go for an imported icelandic unless I could see it was real nice and calm and I rode it a few times. I am REALLY mad. LOL. I didn't go looking. It just happened. Like my marriage. Lorraine sometimes it works out. or sometimes, like me, I married a guy who lived in a house like the movie Animal House where college students were passed out and O.D.ing on the lawn and he didnt even know who all lived there and it was HIS house. I knew I could change him! I spent the last 29 years trying to change him and he changed now and then accidentally or when he wanted to, I havent had one minutes success changing him. But I have a few horses I just knew I could change and I did! what a great feeling. but some were hopeless like my husband and some like my husband, change themselves here and there. but the main thing is that, like my husband, they know they better dance with the one that brung them or else go sleep in someone elses barn :) Janice yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On 11/13/07 8:38 PM, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: about Iceys bolting? Do they bolt more than other breeds? I don't know myself. I have owned nearly 20 horses and have never had one bolt like Scooter does. Buck and spook, Yes. Dagur doesn't bolt at all. I was wondering the same thing too about Icelandics. I have only had Scooter for one year. Lorraine Is Scooter an import? Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
Is Scooter an import? He is supposed to be. I have no papers but he was advertised as imported. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:36:03 -0800, you wrote: why do I read so often about Iceys bolting? Do they bolt more than other breeds? I think it depends what you call a bolt. To me, a bolt is the horse running blind with its brain switched off, in blind panic. Will go over a cliff if there's one in the way. In 20 years I've met hardly any Icelandics who ever do that. However, Icelandics who run away with their riders... well, yes, there are a fair few of those! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:46:11 -0500, you wrote: Does it really matter if we quibble over running away with versus bolting? If the rider can't stop the horse when they need to stop the horse, does it matter? Why don't we hear of so many other-breed horses merely running away with their riders? I think there is a relevant difference, though maybe not in the rider's head. With a true bolting horse, nobody will be able to stop it (unless they are stronger than the horse - not likely - or have such a severe bit they can literally force the horse to stop). With a horse which is just running away, proper training (of the horse or the rider, whichever is necessary), or resolving other issues such as pain, nappiness, over-enthusiasm, running home, catching up with other horses or whatever is the cause, will sort the problem out. Not that it makes any difference to how the rider feels - unless they are so over-confident they don't give a toss about a genuine bolter and the danger it might put them in - being run away with in any form is terrifying, and often completely illogical in the feelings it arouses. I can ride gallop competently over most terrain. Most places I ride the footing is good and the horse I'm riding is sure-footed anyway. My horses are not usually spooky, and not usually that fit that they would be able to gallop for miles. Yet if I get on the beach or the airfield and feel out of control (or even as if I might get out of control) I go completely to pieces. It's not the fear of falling off - it's the whole being out of control thing. Horrid. But I do know, that 99.9% of the time, if I really really have to, and I don't panic, I CAN stop the horse at least long enough for me to get off it. If I was on a genuine bolting horse that would not be the case. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
I think it depends what you call a bolt. To me, a bolt is the horse running blind with its brain switched off, in blind panic. Will go over a cliff if there's one in the way. In 20 years I've met hardly any Icelandics who ever do that. However, Icelandics who run away with their riders... well, yes, there are a fair few of those! Does it really matter if we quibble over running away with versus bolting? If the rider can't stop the horse when they need to stop the horse, does it matter? Why don't we hear of so many other-breed horses merely running away with their riders? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
With a horse which is just running away, proper training (of the horse or the rider, whichever is necessary), or resolving other issues such as pain, nappiness, over-enthusiasm, running home, catching up with other horses or whatever is the cause, will sort the problem out. But, what about the typical Icelandic bolting scenario we hear about so often, where a relatively novice horseperson buys the horse after trying him out and then he gets to his new home and bolts with his rider. Why do we hear about this scenario so much more often with Icelandic's than with other calm breeds? In this case, it's basically a done-deal, she/he owns the horse, and if there was a 30-day suitability guarantee, it may be over. The situation has to be coped with, and hopefully, the horse isn't going to just be passed on, getting more and more confused with each change of ownership. This is most unfortunate to get to that point, but once at that point, would a beginner rider/beginner horse owner have the perspective/experience to isolate the cause? I don't think so. So...what then? I don't think it's helpful to argue whether the horse is running away or bolting. Both situations - IF they are different, and I tend to what you describe are only degrees of difference of the same problem - are dangerous. How does a person in this situation break the cycle? That's the relevant question, or so it seems to me. Mic, you've admitted you've had some fear. But you have been riding -what? Twenty plus years? And you just admitted that you can feel out of control and you were talking about horses that you've owned for years - what about someone who suddenly and unexpectedly finds themselves on a horse they may own but don't have a long history with, and suppose the person has been riding only maybe a year or so...? You wrote: I can ride gallop competently over most terrain. Most places I ride the footing is good and the horse I'm riding is sure-footed anyway. My horses are not usually spooky, and not usually that fit that they would be able to gallop for miles. Yet if I get on the beach or the airfield and feel out of control (or even as if I might get out of control) I go completely to pieces. It's not the fear of falling off - it's the whole being out of control thing. Horrid. But I do know, that 99.9% of the time, if I really really have to, and I don't panic, I CAN stop the horse at least long enough for me to get off it. If I was on a genuine bolting horse that would not be the case. I think you hit a huge part of the issue with the Icelandic bolting issue in what you said. I'd ask you: WHY are you galloping if you know you have fear issues? I think that would seem pretty peculiar to a lot of mature riders in the USA, even those not particularly fearful, at least those outside the Icelandic influences. A heck of a lot of riders I know don't gallop - ever. Some do, yes, if they are comfortable doing so. And canter, yes, I know MANY more riders who canter, but not gallop. But within the Icelandic circles, most horses are taught to gallop from the get-go, and if a rider doesn't want to gallop, or is afraid to, he/she is is branded a sissy... And that speed-is-everything attitude is at the core of what little basic training WAY too many Icelandic horses ever get. Maybe THAT'S where the problem begins... Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
But, what about the typical Icelandic bolting scenario we hear about so often, where a relatively novice horseperson buys the horse after trying him out and then he gets to his new home and bolts with his rider. Why do we hear about this scenario so much more often with Icelandic's than with other calm breeds? Lack of decent training of the horse, and it's my experience that sometimes the new owner has different expectations of the horse - sometimes people see the cute fluffy pony and expect it to be a slow ploddy thing, which most Icelandics are not really. This is most unfortunate to get to that point, but once at that point, would a beginner rider/beginner horse owner have the perspective/experience to isolate the cause? I don't think so. So...what then? Get help from a good teacher, the vet, another experienced horse person, the internet, books, anywhere you can. Mic, you've admitted you've had some fear. But you have been riding -what? Twenty plus years? Over 35 years, 20 on Icelandics. And not had some fear. HAVE some fear. I've never been a particularly confident rider but it got worse after my divorce and moving up here where mostly I ride on my own, and my dear old Kalsi going lame so I had to ride the youngsters more. I was nervous, so they got afraid, so I got more afraid, so they got more afraid... you know how it goes. I think you hit a huge part of the issue with the Icelandic bolting issue in what you said. I'd ask you: WHY are you galloping if you know you have fear issues? Because it's not galloping/speed per se that frighten me - it's being out of control in an open space. If I'm on a reasonably narrow trail preferably slightly uphill, on a horse I trust, then I'll gallop happily. Yee haa! Trouble is, we have a LOT of wide open spaces up here. Let me ride on the road all the time and I'm fine!!! (duh) I think that would seem pretty peculiar to a lot of mature riders in the USA, even those not particularly fearful, at least those outside the Icelandic influences. It's funny, it seems that people's perception of riding etc is very different in the USA to in Europe. Over here, you would expect to be cantering after about 10 lessons, and galloping out on the trail after, say, 20 lessons or so. A lot of people gallop regularly. My neighbour David started riding recently (big horses, not Icies) for the first time in his life, at the age of 54 (roughly - plus or minus about 5 years!). He's been having lessons for about 3 months now. OK, he doesn't have confidence issues, but he's going hunting on a borrowed horse in a couple of weeks time. This is not particularly unusual over here. A heck of a lot of riders I know don't gallop - ever. Some do, yes, if they are comfortable doing so. And canter, yes, I know MANY more riders who canter, but not gallop. But within the Icelandic circles, most horses are taught to gallop from the get-go, and if a rider doesn't want to gallop, or is afraid to, he/she is is branded a sissy... I know, and I think that's really stupid. No rider should be expected to do more than they feel comfortable with - though it's good to push the boundaries a bit sometimes or else you'll never progress. And that speed-is-everything attitude is at the core of what little basic training WAY too many Icelandic horses ever get. Maybe THAT'S where the problem begins... I completely agree. Most Icelandics have WAAA too little training in the basics that most horse people take for granted - accepting the bit, basic lateral work, hacking alone, getting away from the herd, standing still for mounting etc. Down on the beach the other day there were a couple of TB horses having some exercise. They galloped together all the way along the beach (3 miles), then one galloped back the way they came, while the other waited patiently on a loose rein for his mate to come back, after which they cantered back along the beach together. There are not that many Icies that would do that in quite so relaxed manner, I think. And at any local pony club show - kiddies on ponies canter 20m circles on a reasonably loose rein with the pony collected and on the bit. Show me that at virtually ANY level of Icehorse riding!!! The general level of equestrianism amongst the Icelandic horse community is often appallingly low. That said, I still think there's a difference between running away (common) and bolting (rare), at least in the way the horse feels about it. The way I look at it is - running away = (nearly always) happy horse, unhappy rider and bolting = unhappy horse, unhappy rider. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
Maybe there's another clue - you would expect to be cantering after xx lessons - does it matter what number you fill in for the xx? Why do people expect to reach certain milestones in a certain period...? Who sets the expectations? Is it ok, just because it's the normal expectations? Not necessarily - and if you re-read, please note I said after ABOUT 10 lessons. don't think it's as common as it once was. Not by a long shot. Nor do I think that makes it right, just because SOME do it. We have plenty of macho cowboy type here in leadership roles such that even more and more Hmmm, I think his 5'1 girl instructor, a former dressage champion, would laugh to hear herself described as a macho cowboy type in leadership role! LOL we moved on, and found there were plenty like us who wanted to have fun, be safe, and have good relationships with our horses. So you believe those who move on faster don't want those things : o Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
It's funny, it seems that people's perception of riding etc is very different in the USA to in Europe. Over here, you would expect to be cantering after about 10 lessons, and galloping out on the trail after, say, 20 lessons or so. A lot of people gallop regularly. Maybe there's another clue - you would expect to be cantering after xx lessons - does it matter what number you fill in for the xx? Why do people expect to reach certain milestones in a certain period...? Who sets the expectations? Is it ok, just because it's the normal expectations? My neighbour David started riding recently (big horses, not Icies) for the first time in his life, at the age of 54 (roughly - plus or minus about 5 years!). He's been having lessons for about 3 months now. OK, he doesn't have confidence issues, but he's going hunting on a borrowed horse in a couple of weeks time. This is not particularly unusual over here. Oh, that sort of thing is perfectly common in many circles here too...but I don't think it's as common as it once was. Not by a long shot. Nor do I think that makes it right, just because SOME do it. We have plenty of macho cowboy type here in leadership roles such that even more and more MEN (imagine that) aren't feeling particularly obligated to have to live up to the highest challenge presented to them. It's been an interesting phenomenon to observe. In the USA for a good 20 years, we've seen our mainstream cowboys (Lyons, Parelli, etc.) give sage advice like the old ride where you can, not where you can't phrase. BTW, my daughter's first instructor had her jumping after about 8-10 lessons. We found another instructor. Even Emily knew she wasn't ready, and I certainly knew better, even though I was a novice owner. We could have settled with what we found, and said that was the expectations, but we moved on, and found there were plenty like us who wanted to have fun, be safe, and have good relationships with our horses. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On Nov 14, 2007 8:09 AM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, what about the typical Icelandic bolting scenario we hear about so often, where a relatively novice horseperson buys the horse after trying him out and then he gets to his new home and bolts with his rider. That's my story with Orri. Never Gat. I think, with Orri, it's his youth and I'm hoping with time that he will relax with me. I've been doing ground work, and just spending time with him, moreso than riding. V NB Canada
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
Hmmm, I think his 5'1 girl instructor, a former dressage champion, would laugh to hear herself described as a macho cowboy type in leadership role! LOL Emily's first instructor was probably 5'3, about 28-30 years old at the time, and female. I'd definitely consider her a macho-type. I don't think a macho attitude is something that only men have - quite the contrary, some men aren't burdened with it, while some women are. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
also i think there is flight and fight. some take off and some stand and defend. I think buckers and rearers are the ones who stand and defend. They want you off them so they can take care of the danger. just my theory :) and of course the pain thing. thats a given. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] bolting
I suspect a lot of bolting issues come from the fact that Icelandics are judged on their speed. Most of the horse shows that I have been too I hear way too many comments that the tolt is not fast enough, the canter is not fast enough, the pace and trot are not fast enough'. When we rode in Iceland we all got on ant took off like a bat out of ---. I suspect the Icelandic born horses are really encouraged to go a lot faster than what we want in the USA. I too believe it is what they are trained to do. Renee I think that's probably the biggest single factor too, Renee. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
I completely agree. Most Icelandics have WAAA too little training in the basics that most horse people take for granted - accepting the bit, basic lateral work, hacking alone, getting away from the herd, standing still for mounting etc. I think all the things Nancy, Karen and Mic have said are true and I have been studying this phenomenon hard since I was introduced to Icelandics. Something really clicked with me when I was watching the Larry Whitesell training DVD. He said that on a whole (and I'm parphrasing here so I hope I get it right) there are many women that ride and they are timid riders. They hold their horses back and hold them back until the horses just blow a gasket and take off. He said he has gotten a big amount of horses in for this type of problem. He has worked with Icelandics, Pasos, TWH, etc. I think this is true in many of the out of control situations with Icies.(This is me talking now) I think many Icies have an inherent desire to go quickly wherever they go. This is masked by the fact that they are so calm and peaceful when working with them from the ground. What we do is take that natural tendency to want to go fast and we try to control it with bits and hauling back on the reins - we never just let them go like they want, then, because they are stoic, they build and build this frustration until they just have to release it somehow. If we put them in stressful situations (like gait training) the steam just builds higher and faster. What LW says is that you have to start from the very beginning and retrain them to respond and be soft to the bit/face. I have never seen horses that are more relaxed and soft in their responses than the ones he trains. They are so soft and responsive that I can't imagine anyone being afraid to ride these horses in any gait, at any speed because you just know they are getting what they need from their rider. Doppa was one of those horses trained to go and go fast and at my age, I am not a rider that wants to gallop throught the woods. So she and I have come to understanding that those kind of rides just aren't going to happen. I know she misses them but I try to make her life good in other ways. Occassionally she forgets that we aren't going to do that and tends to get worked up, so we just stop what we are doing and stand until her mind is back with me.- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
I think little Yrsa will be the more enthusiastic type of horse that I enjoy ridig. That's a good word, Nancy - enthusiastic. I haven't ridden Tivar on the trails like Janice has, but when he was here, and we started working past his issues, it became apparent to me that, while on some levels he's sort of a lazy plodder, he also has a curiosity about the world, and will keep going and going - maybe because his own curiosity about the world, and partly to please his rider. For whatever reason, I can see that even Tivar has a degree of enthusiasm - although he might not be happy to admit it! I see a fair number of Icelandic's of some variation of his profile - willing to keep going, although some at a slightly faster pace than others. Cary's Skjoni is one of the more athletic Icelandic's I've met. He has that enthusiasm about seeing the world, plus he really, deeply seems to want to be a good boy. I haven't seen Skjoni on the trail with Tivar - my guess is that Skjoni would agree to a faster speed for longer, and more willingly, but Skjoni is also perfectly content to walk when he's asked. Definitely the same with Eitill and Sina - they have a little more inherent pep to them, but a peppy horse can be trained to rate his speed as easily as any horse. The difference to me is that there is nothing about an enthusiastic horse that would inherently make them want to bolt - not unless they had prior training to make them believe that speed is most often the right answer. Skjoni's earliest training was traditional, and I've seen a hint of confusion in him a few times, but only at first. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
We don't sell horses anymore - it seems so hard on them to change settings - but what a shame that we couldn't take all the Icelandics out there, shake them in some sort of a giant bag and re-distribute them to owners who would like them just as they came out of the box. I'm 65 and I like a really forward (also well-trained) horse. And I have the darling lazy Tosca. I am sure, however, that her extremely phlegmatic nature will help her be a wonderful therapy horse, and that is, after all, what she was purchased for. I think little Yrsa will be the more enthusiastic type of horse that I enjoy ridig. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
The Icelandic horses that I know that are noticeably quicker in their tempo are ones who have been taught that's their default You know, thinking about it, I have only worked with Icelandics that were born and originally trained in Iceland - I guess it gives me a scewed perspective. Do we have cases of bolting Icies that are domestic born and trained? -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
I think many Icies have an inherent desire to go quickly wherever they go. This is masked by the fact that they are so calm and peaceful when working with them from the ground. I really don't believe that is true, Laree. I have no doubt that some horses are innately more energetic than others, but I'm very skeptical that there's a very wide range of energy levels in this breed. The Icelandic horses that I know that are noticeably quicker in their tempo are ones who have been taught that's their defaultAnd believe me, there are PLENTY of inherently SLOW horses in this breed. Sure, Skjoni has more pep (for lack of a better word) than Trausti, but neither one is exactly a speed demon when relaxed. And when I use the word pep, I'm speaking of a willingness to go forward with enthusiasm that but with no nervousness/edginess/wariness associated. I'd even go so far as to say, initial training equal, there is less range of inherent energy-levels in this breed than, say, within Arabs or QH for instance. The key is looking at a range of horses who've been trained the same. Unfortunately, way too many Icelandic's have had some of the rushed type speed-is-the-only-goal-training at some point in their lives, and it's very hard to separate what they WANT to do, from what they have been trained to believe they SHOULD do. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
...a peppy horse can be trained to rate his speed Absolutely! The highly energetic Hunter has learned to know when he's baby sitting. In one week, we went out once with a group of endurance riders and he was pretty darned silly when we first met up with them. Then we went out with a woman we ride with a lot and a new friend, an older lady who has some real fear and is very timid. Hunter practically did a hesitation step coming downhill to go slowly enough for them. Then, on Friday, we led Tosca out on her first trail ride. It's taken a while, but he has learned that there's a time and a place for everything, as my mother used to tell us. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
Do we have cases of bolting Icies that are domestic born and trained? Loftur is one... But...Loftur WAS born in Iceland, His actual saddle training wasn't begun until he came to the USA though. I think his training was icelandic-style, tho, wasn't it? Judy
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
Maybe Scooter just ran off with me. I did stop him. Either way it is dangerous for me I don't see it as being worth quibbling over the term, Lori. I think what's important is that you figure out how to make you and Scooter more comfortable, so you can deal with it. Why do YOU think he gets pissy? Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
I think it depends what you call a bolt. To me, a bolt is the horse running blind with its brain switched off, in blind panic. Will go over a cliff if there's one in the way. In 20 years Scooter DID run over a pretty steep hill. He was really pissy that day. Lorraine Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
rider's head. With a true bolting horse, nobody will be able to stop Maybe Scooter just ran off with me. I did stop him. Either way it is dangerous for me Lorraine Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
It's taken a while, but he has learned that there's a time and a place for everything, as my mother used to tell us. Exactly. Our Arab seemed crazy, flighty and all sorts of the typical Arab-y descriptions when we first got him. He has more energy than many horses - ok, maybe not so much now at age 28, but he sure did for most of his life. But, during those initial days with us, I KNOW he wasn't being energetic so much as he was confused by our lack of understanding - plus he had MANY holes in his training. Once we got a handle on what we needed to do, and found someone to help us fill in the gaps in his training, he became a MUCH more relaxed horse. He still had a good bit of energy - some of that was just inherent - but he was relaxed. Unfortunately, I see too many Icelandic's get stuck in that confused stage that Thunder came to us in... With Icelandic's, WAY too often that's just written of as goey-ness... The worst case I envision within Icelandic's is when someone takes one of these really quiet, slow horses and MAKES them goey out of fear and confusion. I'm betting that is a huge factor in some of the bolting we hear about. Team a beginner/timid rider with a horse that's been pushed to an energy level he's not comfortable with, and you have a recipe for disaster. Really sad, when you think that some of these same horses might have been perfect for that same rider, without the initial push for speed. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
Why do YOU think he gets pissy? Well. I hardly rode him all summer. too hot. I could just tell he didn't want to go out. There was a person on a bucking horse nearby. But yesterday. We had the perfect ride. We were both relaxed. It was awesome. Yeah Lorraine Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
I think his training was icelandic-style, tho, wasn't it? I was told that his very first under-saddle training was traditional, and that it was a failure. Frankly, I didn't ask for a lot of detail on that first saddle-training incident - I'd ask for more now. I just remember that it wasn't successful and Loftur came back from it more wary than when he started it, and it sounded like he was plenty wary to begin with. I gather that he bolted and was then manhandled. After that, his first American owner did try to start him over with some groundwork herself, out of desperation, and somehow stumbled on and taught him the Seven Games. I think that was a big boost in getting he and I off to a good start. He was brought here in a big trailer from Florida, and the hauler let him off at the end of our long driveway. The woman I bought him from hadn't mentioned a word about any groundwork training he'd had prior to her buying him, so discovering his Parelli training was a total surprise - but a good one. When I was walking him up the driveway, I tilted my head to one side and slightly bent over - just to have a good look at his feet. He surprised me by perking up, turning to face me, and by giving his hindquarters. I did a couple of other natural horsemanship type cues - VERY subtly and he responded. Whoever did the Parelli work with him did a fantastic job with him. He was very interested, perky, ears up and forward, and very light - no pressure over phase 1 needed. It was such a relief to find something positive that we could share and something he obviously enjoyed doing. It gave him a chance to be a good boy without any pain. I found out later that his earlier owner had essentially done all of Level 1 groundwork with him, but of course, I'd realized that by then ...but the bolting kept resurfacing when she'd try to ride him. Anyway, at some point he was sold to the woman I bought him from. The last owner didn't do any of the groundwork with him, and she sold him when she found out he'd bolt. To her credit, she was honest in her ad, and described him as a bolter. I bought him fully knowing he had issues. I'll always remember walking him up the driveway that first day. Ima, Refur and Miska were just maybe 2-3 weeks old, and they were in one of the pastures by the driveway with their moms. I could just see Loftur smiling at them playing. Then, I inadvertently gave him a cue he understood, and thankfully, I recognized it when he responded. I had a feeling he was relieved to be here, that it felt comfortable and familiar to him - the babies, the horses, even the Parelli language. I knew after that first walk up the driveway that he was a quiet, gentle soul, very smart and one who wanted to do the right thing. He was my first Icelandic rehab. I'll never sell him, and he'll stay here forever if at all possible. This is his home. He did NOT trust men when he came here, and he would get irrationally panicky if approached by a man in the open field. He quickly warmed up to Cary and the farrier inside the barn, but still remains wary about people he doesn't know when he's outside in the bigger pasture. That makes no sense in a way - most horses are more likely to feel panicky in an enclosed area...it makes no sense unless the pasture castration trauma story was true, and he still has memories. The people who have visited here may have noticed that I don't generally bring him out to show people that don't know him. Maybe I should try to encourage him to trust more people, but since he likes and trusts us, I haven't really seen any need to push it. I think the Parelli work was a wonderful thing for Loftur for building his confidence and trust in humans, but NO training method, however gentle and solid, was going to eliminate physical pain, and the pain was the root cause of his behavior. And from what I was told, it certainly seemed that his physical pain was present from the time he first arrived in the USA, until Dr. Daniel went to work on him. All the clues point back to that pasture gelding procedure before he came to the USA. He'd been in the USA about 4-5 years before I got him and he had the full vet work-up. Funny, no one had ever thought that he might be hurting. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On Nov 14, 2007 9:11 AM, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's taken a while, but he has learned that there's a time and a place for everything, as my mother used to tell us. Exactly. Our Arab seemed crazy, flighty and all sorts of the typical Arab-y descriptions when we first got him. The worst case I envision within Icelandic's is when someone takes one of these really quiet, slow horses and MAKES them goey out of fear and confusion. Yes, Arabs can be flighty and are more excitable than Icelandics--or at least they show more excitement... My main problem with my Arab was always that he wanted to go faster than I did most of the time. Other than that, he was always very obedient. My Icelandic, on the other hand, is quite stubborn at times and can be very frustrating in that he wants to go in a different direction from what I want on occasion, or go back to the barn, etc. and Peggy Cummings taught me to just stop him and sit there for 30 seconds or so and then try the turn or whatever again--which usually works. For me, much as I love him, I would say my Icelandic is more difficult to ride than my Arab ever was. It could be a difference in beginning training or something, of course, but he is not always easy to ride... I know I'll probably get a lot of slaps up the side of the head for saying this, but for me it is true. That is why I still take lessons a couple of times a month. We are constantly working on better communication... Ferne
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On 11/14/07, Lorraine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do YOU think he gets pissy? Well. I hardly rode him all summer. too hot. I could just tell he didn't want to go out. There was a person on a bucking horse nearby. But yesterday. We had the perfect ride. We were both relaxed. It was awesome. Yeah Lorraine Tivar used to be pissy a lot and I just grew to accept he was an old grump. Then gee to my surprise he got less pissy as time went by and I learned to listen and he learned to express things the way I needed to hear them. (stressing here its different for every person and THEIR horse) I dont know how it began to change but he just got mellower and mellower, I think he was beginning to understand I wasnt a mean person and that he was rude for no reason. I am very very clumsy and gimpy, I have had knee surgery as a result of a bad car accident when I was 30 and now arthritis from it. I cant get on and off a horse without wallowing around up there forever, especially dismounting. At first that drove him NUTS. He would give me a normal amount of time to swing down and when i didnt get very aggravated and start wringing his tail and walking off. But now he stands quietly, i think he just began to realize hey, why she does that I dont know, but what the heck if it floats her boat... instead of I wish this crazy ol bat would learn how to get off a horse the right WAY Janice .yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
But yesterday. We had the perfect ride. We were both relaxed. It was awesome. Yeah Focusing on the positive can never hurt, and is a good step forward. I'm glad you had a good ride. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.31/1129 - Release Date: 11/13/2007 9:22 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
On Nov 14, 2007 11:52 AM, Laree Shulman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do we have cases of bolting Icies that are domestic born and trained? Orri from Maple Leaf Icelandic Horse Farm, Rexton, NB Canada (but his trainer was Icelandic). V
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
Flipi (aka Naggur) the rescue I had. He's enjoying a non-riding retirement in S. Ca. Cherie
Re: [IceHorses] Bolting
about Iceys bolting? Do they bolt more than other breeds? I don't know myself. I have owned nearly 20 horses and have never had one bolt like Scooter does. Buck and spook, Yes. Dagur doesn't bolt at all. I was wondering the same thing too about Icelandics. I have only had Scooter for one year. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
RE: [IceHorses] Bolting
You all know we have only had Icelandics since last January so forgive me please if this has been cussed and discussed, but why do I read so often about Iceys bolting? Do they bolt more than other breeds? Are they more difficult to get good saddle fit on? Because of their generaly phlegmatic nature, are people expecting too much too soon? Or, conversely, because of their generaly phlegmatic nature, are more beginner riders chosing them? Yes...to all of the above. And don't forget pain, harsh training, a macho-man culture behind the traditional training methods...and then there's the old-standby, forcing horses to tolt by whatever means possible. I have an ex-bolting Icelandic. He has a long story behind him, but bottom line, this horse was in tons and tons of pain, for years. I was warned before I got him that only a good rider should try to ride him. This horse is gentle as a lamb on the ground, one who MIGHT have been a suitable horse for a small child. Now, why would anyone try to ride it out with such a gentle horse who's only trying to tell people that he hurts...? Once we found the source of his bolting, the source of his pain, he stopped bolting. In fact, he has never bolted here. It makes me sick. We didn't rehab him with cowboy methods. We just listened to him. Oh, yeah, don't forget this one: when a horse isn't given suitable basic training, but instead is taught to go fast in all his gaits, then is sold to a timid, older rider, maybe a grandma...and then the horse runs out of control with the woman (probably doing what he was taught), the woman is shamed into believing that the horse is too much horse for her...so she sells him in embarrassment, and the cycle continues. Yep, the old blame the rider mentality only fosters the cycle. I can't count the number of times I've heard a variation of that scenario. The horse wasn't poorly or incompletely trained...oh no, couldn't be that. The horse isn't nervous - no, no no, not at all. He's just goey. That's the spin behind the horses. This is the easiest breed as a whole that I've ever met. It just makes me sick that we have a number of bolters. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.30/1127 - Release Date: 11/12/2007 9:19 PM
Re: [IceHorses] bolting
On 4/25/07, Janice McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about bolting?? Gat has never bolted with either Alex or me--even when she gets in a really fast canter or pace. Orri has bolted during indoor arena work--he did it 3 or 4 times. The first time could be he was unsure of the tractor and ladder in the arena, but the other times there was nothing to scare him. V
