Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Well put, Ben! I've often thought one of the fun and stimulating aspects of the list is the fact that not absolutely every thread is boating related. It's kinda like the bar at the yacht club. The common denominator of everyone there is love of boating but the range of lively conversations can encompass a wide range of intellectual topics (except politics!!!) some of which have nothing to do with boating but are the result of a group of intellectually curious people. And then there are the Neanderthals with absolutely nothing going on between their ears except their teeny little preoccupation with what directly interests them and don't have the intellectual curiosity to expand their world. If the world were left to those intellectually challenged I guess we'd still all be afraid of falling off the edge of the flat earth. In any event, I'm going back to Spring Commissioning S Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:24 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:42:10PM -0400, jjd...@aol.com wrote: Agree, It is called mental masturbation. In a message dated 4/25/2011 10:39:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, floridak...@aol.com writes: What the fuck! [grin] Oh, the impotent, chittering outrage. So cute... reminds me of a chipmunk. Hint: if you have nothing useful to contribute, don't bother airing your opinion about how unimportant the question is. It's been done, redone, and over-done. Doing the AOL thing (Me too!) for the Nth time is indeed mental masturbation. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Soo well put, Ben! I've never understood those on the list who, somewhere along the line, forgot where their 'delete' key was if they had no interest in a subject. Kinda like my reference to the bar at the yacht club, where in that case, as you wandered around with your drink in hand, if you didn't like the conversation at one end of the bar you just moved to the other end of the bar. You certainly wouldn't tell the first group that this is a yacht club - you're not allowed to ponder philosophical questions. Just the concept of that has me on the floor laughing my ass off. Oh well, it's a free society so I guess our only recourse is to allow the Philistines on the list grins! Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:17 AM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question Hey, Steve - On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 09:10:36AM -0400, SteveW wrote: Well put, Ben! I've often thought one of the fun and stimulating aspects of the list is the fact that not absolutely every thread is boating related. It's kinda like the bar at the yacht club. The common denominator of everyone there is love of boating but the range of lively conversations can encompass a wide range of intellectual topics (except politics!!!) some of On USENET, the canonical four topics to avoid were politics, guns, rape, and religion. No matter how they started, they always ended up in flames... I can't claim to have always followed that successfully, but then, I never did claim to be perfect. :) which have nothing to do with boating but are the result of a group of intellectually curious people. And then there are the Neanderthals with absolutely nothing going on between their ears except their teeny little preoccupation with what directly interests them and don't have the intellectual curiosity to expand their world. If the world were left to those intellectually challenged I guess we'd still all be afraid of falling off the edge of the flat earth. Agreed, in full. The only problem is that these tail-end Charlies insist on hitching a ride on the trains that *we* build... oh well. It's a cost of civilization, I suppose. Worth noting: intellectual, as in intellectual curiosity, means associated with or requiring the use of the mind. In other words, having a mind is a requirement. All else proceeds from there. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Funny, but as a side-effect of all this conversation about dying in a sealed environment, I ended up seeing/reading a whole bunch of material on scuba diving and gear. I have this strange feeling that the knowledge I'll put that knowledge to some use before I die. Knowledge is a funny thing to go around collecting since, unlike nearly everything else you could collect, the more you have, the easier it seems to be to store it all.. (and if collecting things without requiring a whole bunch of space to store the collection isn't relevant to a liveaboard list...) Cheers, Kris On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:10:10AM -0400, SteveW wrote: Soo well put, Ben! I've never understood those on the list who, somewhere along the line, forgot where their 'delete' key was if they had no interest in a subject. Kinda like my reference to the bar at the yacht club, where in that case, as you wandered around with your drink in hand, if you didn't like the conversation at one end of the bar you just moved to the other end of the bar. You certainly wouldn't tell the first group that this is a yacht club - you're not allowed to ponder philosophical questions. Just the concept of that has me on the floor laughing my ass off. Oh well, it's a free society so I guess our only recourse is to allow the Philistines on the list grins! Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:17 AM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question Hey, Steve - On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 09:10:36AM -0400, SteveW wrote: Well put, Ben! I've often thought one of the fun and stimulating aspects of the list is the fact that not absolutely every thread is boating related. It's kinda like the bar at the yacht club. The common denominator of everyone there is love of boating but the range of lively conversations can encompass a wide range of intellectual topics (except politics!!!) some of On USENET, the canonical four topics to avoid were politics, guns, rape, and religion. No matter how they started, they always ended up in flames... I can't claim to have always followed that successfully, but then, I never did claim to be perfect. :) which have nothing to do with boating but are the result of a group of intellectually curious people. And then there are the Neanderthals with absolutely nothing going on between their ears except their teeny little preoccupation with what directly interests them and don't have the intellectual curiosity to expand their world. If the world were left to those intellectually challenged I guess we'd still all be afraid of falling off the edge of the flat earth. Agreed, in full. The only problem is that these tail-end Charlies insist on hitching a ride on the trains that *we* build... oh well. It's a cost of civilization, I suppose. Worth noting: intellectual, as in intellectual curiosity, means associated with or requiring the use of the mind. In other words, having a mind is a requirement. All else proceeds from there. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html -- Kris Coward http://unripe.melon.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733 830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3 ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 03:01:03PM -0400, Kris Coward wrote: Funny, but as a side-effect of all this conversation about dying in a sealed environment, I ended up seeing/reading a whole bunch of material on scuba diving and gear. I have this strange feeling that the knowledge I'll put that knowledge to some use before I die. Knowledge is a funny thing to go around collecting since, unlike nearly everything else you could collect, the more you have, the easier it seems to be to store it all.. (and if collecting things without requiring a whole bunch of space to store the collection isn't relevant to a liveaboard list...) As somebody said once, it all gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space. :) I do agree with you, though: once you have a certain minimal load, things become much easier to cross-reference. Also, your ability to check a variety of things for accuracy on the fly improves, sometimes by startling amounts. You also tend to learn about good information sources (my latest find is http://www.snpedia.com/. Genetic SNiPs, what fun! Got there via Manu Sporny... oh dear, infinite backtracking. Never mind.) One of the major things you have to watch out for, though, is observer bias. I'm actually a bit paranoid about that kind of thing, and go to some lengths to make sure that I'm not just collecting stuff that supports what I already know, and rejecting things that don't match the set. To misquote the Bishop of Gloucester, orthodoxy is *not* my doxy. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Yes I agree with Kris. The insatiable desire of humans to learn is a fascinating characteristic. Sometimes I find myself reading the gibberish written by the most revolting personalities just in case there is something I can learn. If nothing I end up learning what style of communication not to ever use. Of course the price one has to pay is controlling the urge to vomit while reading messages from such revolting personalities. We are so lucky that we do not have such self serving, know it all arrogant individuals on this list. Fair winds Ahmet Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 15:01:03 -0400 From: k...@melon.org To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question Funny, but as a side-effect of all this conversation about dying in a sealed environment, I ended up seeing/reading a whole bunch of material on scuba diving and gear. I have this strange feeling that the knowledge I'll put that knowledge to some use before I die. Knowledge is a funny thing to go around collecting since, unlike nearly everything else you could collect, the more you have, the easier it seems to be to store it all.. (and if collecting things without requiring a whole bunch of space to store the collection isn't relevant to a liveaboard list...) Cheers, Kris On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:10:10AM -0400, SteveW wrote: Soo well put, Ben! I've never understood those on the list who, somewhere along the line, forgot where their 'delete' key was if they had no interest in a subject. Kinda like my reference to the bar at the yacht club, where in that case, as you wandered around with your drink in hand, if you didn't like the conversation at one end of the bar you just moved to the other end of the bar. You certainly wouldn't tell the first group that this is a yacht club - you're not allowed to ponder philosophical questions. Just the concept of that has me on the floor laughing my ass off. Oh well, it's a free society so I guess our only recourse is to allow the Philistines on the list grins! Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V -Original Message- From: Ben Okopnik Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:17 AM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question Hey, Steve - On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 09:10:36AM -0400, SteveW wrote: Well put, Ben! I've often thought one of the fun and stimulating aspects of the list is the fact that not absolutely every thread is boating related. It's kinda like the bar at the yacht club. The common denominator of everyone there is love of boating but the range of lively conversations can encompass a wide range of intellectual topics (except politics!!!) some of On USENET, the canonical four topics to avoid were politics, guns, rape, and religion. No matter how they started, they always ended up in flames... I can't claim to have always followed that successfully, but then, I never did claim to be perfect. :) which have nothing to do with boating but are the result of a group of intellectually curious people. And then there are the Neanderthals with absolutely nothing going on between their ears except their teeny little preoccupation with what directly interests them and don't have the intellectual curiosity to expand their world. If the world were left to those intellectually challenged I guess we'd still all be afraid of falling off the edge of the flat earth. Agreed, in full. The only problem is that these tail-end Charlies insist on hitching a ride on the trains that *we* build... oh well. It's a cost of civilization, I suppose. Worth noting: intellectual, as in intellectual curiosity, means associated with or requiring the use of the mind. In other words, having a mind is a requirement. All else proceeds from there. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Does it matter you are dead. :-) In a message dated 4/25/2011 1:32:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, banders...@earthlink.net writes: A friend and I are having a discussion. If one is locked in an airtight compartment, does one die of lack of oxygen or carbon dioxide poisoning? Norm S/V Bandersnatch ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 02:09:24PM -0400, Ben Okopnik wrote: In terms of numbers, the normal level of C02 in a room (had to look this stuff up) is about 600ppm, while outdoors it's 300-400ppm (i.e., 0.04% concentration.) The average concentration at which most people become aware of a problem is over 2% (2ppm), or about 50X the outdoor level, and it takes a 5% concentration to become directly toxic. You'd be oxygen-starved well before that point, I would think. Ahhh, so when shrinking the bits of my winter enclosure that can only be shrunk from the inside, it's when I get somewhere between 2% and 5% CO2 that I stop the heat gun and let the enclosure vent for a minute or two before resuming :) Cheers, Kris -- Kris Coward http://unripe.melon.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733 830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3 ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Agree, It is called mental masturbation. In a message dated 4/25/2011 10:39:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, floridak...@aol.com writes: What the fuck! In a message dated 4/25/2011 10:37:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, b...@okopnik.com writes: On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 10:16:41PM -0400, floridak...@aol.com wrote: Does it matter?? We humans do not live by bread alone. If man didn't ask all kinds of questions, including ones that didn't seem to matter at the time, we'd still be paddling logs... scratch that, still sitting on land and dully staring at the water, *not* wondering whether it was of any use. Asking questions keeps your brain alive; hence, the extraordinarily low rate of senility among those who practice the hard sciences. Hence, Norm with his (very) lively brain. I, for one, wish that more people would emulate his example. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895http://okopnik.comhttp://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Maybe you should get more space?? In a message dated 4/25/2011 10:40:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjd...@aol.com writes: We need a Bandwidth Meter what a waste of space. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
I have seen many times in storytelling a situation where people are trapped in an airtight environment and it is said that they will run out of oxygen. In ordinary storytelling it might not be such a problem, after all, it is fiction. But recently I have seen the same thing said on the Science Channel, in both fiction and non-fiction and I think that the assertion is wrong. People that see these falsehoods in a semi-truthful or instructional situation on the tube, especially children who are trying to form a truthful picture of the world around them, causes confusion that required extra effort to change to reality. A classic example was on the Science Channel some months ago on a show called How the Earth was Made. A man who was said to be a geologist held a piece of basalt in one hand and a piece of granite in the other. He explained that the granite was less dense than the basalt so that was why the granite was prevalent on the surface of the earth. Which was fine. But he interjected that the difference in density between the granite and the basalt was greater than difference between the density of water and air. This is so obviously wrong it would simply be laughable except for the fact that someone portrayed as a teacher was putting false information into a child's mind which will have to be changed eventually. I just believe lying to children is wrong. Norm S/V Bandersnatch Does it matter?? In a message dated 4/25/2011 1:32:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, banders...@earthlink.net writes: A friend and I are having a discussion. If one is locked in an airtight compartment, does one die of lack of oxygen or carbon dioxide poisoning? Norm S/V Bandersnatch___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Norm, its great that you have your own opinions but before you say this gentleman, who has a degree of some sort in geology, perhaps even a Phd, is wrong, I would like you to provide some proof. In other words, find a documented source which backs up your opinion. Rob I have seen many times in storytelling a situation where people are trapped in an airtight environment and it is said that they will run out of oxygen. In ordinary storytelling it might not be such a problem, after all, it is fiction. But recently I have seen the same thing said on the Science Channel, in both fiction and non-fiction and I think that the assertion is wrong. People that see these falsehoods in a semi-truthful or instructional situation on the tube, especially children who are trying to form a truthful picture of the world around them, causes confusion that required extra effort to change to reality. A classic example was on the Science Channel some months ago on a show called How the Earth was Made. A man who was said to be a geologist held a piece of basalt in one hand and a piece of granite in the other. He explained that the granite was less dense than the basalt so that was why the granite was prevalent on the surface of the earth. Which was fine. But he interjected that the difference in density between the granite and the basalt was greater than difference between the density of water and air. This is so obviously wrong it would simply be laughable except for the fact that someone portrayed as a teacher was putting false information into a child's mind which will have to be changed eventually. I just believe lying to children is wrong. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Assuming he was talking of liquid water, Density of air, 0 C:1.2920 kg·m^−3 Density of water 4 C: 1000 kg·m^−3 density of granite 2.75 g/cm^3 density of basalt 3.0 g/cm^3 Norm is correct. By the way Norm, the technology for extended diving time uses the divers breath circulated through a CO2 scrubber and the cleansed air, now about 16% oxygen, still enough to breathe, is recirculated to the diver with a little bit of make up air from the high-pressure cylinder to keep the pressure right. There is enough oxygen remaining in an exhaled breath to support life, hence mouth-to-mouth resucitation works. CO2 is the main drive for inhaling and exhaling air. When one hyperventilates, the normal CO2 in the blood is blown off, and one can hold one's breath long enough to pass out before the urge to breathe reasserts itself. Craig Scott RN AE6E ACLS ASLS BDLS PALS TNCC Columbia, South Carolina -Original Message- From: liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com [mailto:liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com] On Behalf Of ROBERT ZANUSSI Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 23:09 To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question Norm, its great that you have your own opinions but before you say this gentleman, who has a degree of some sort in geology, perhaps even a Phd, is wrong, I would like you to provide some proof. In other words, find a documented source which backs up your opinion. Rob I have seen many times in storytelling a situation where people are trapped in an airtight environment and it is said that they will run out of oxygen. In ordinary storytelling it might not be such a problem, after all, it is fiction. But recently I have seen the same thing said on the Science Channel, in both fiction and non-fiction and I think that the assertion is wrong. People that see these falsehoods in a semi-truthful or instructional situation on the tube, especially children who are trying to form a truthful picture of the world around them, causes confusion that required extra effort to change to reality. A classic example was on the Science Channel some months ago on a show called How the Earth was Made. A man who was said to be a geologist held a piece of basalt in one hand and a piece of granite in the other. He explained that the granite was less dense than the basalt so that was why the granite was prevalent on the surface of the earth. Which was fine. But he interjected that the difference in density between the granite and the basalt was greater than difference between the density of water and air. This is so obviously wrong it would simply be laughable except for the fact that someone portrayed as a teacher was putting false information into a child's mind which will have to be changed eventually. I just believe lying to children is wrong. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 09:08:34PM -0600, ROBERT ZANUSSI wrote: Norm, its great that you have your own opinions but before you say this gentleman, who has a degree of some sort in geology, perhaps even a Phd, is wrong, I would like you to provide some proof. In other words, find a documented source which backs up your opinion. Air has a density of ~1 at sea level; water, ~1000. The densest common material we know of is osmium, at 22570; less than a 23-to-1 ratio between water and itself. In other words, there isn't enough swing room possible between materials as similar as two kinds of rock to come anywhere near the differential between air and water. So, yes, the learned gentleman was wrong, by a large margin. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question
Excellent. That is all I asked. Too many people (and I am not aiming at Norm) tend to shoot from the mouth with no facts. I tried in my limited little brain to figure this out but to no avail. So I am glad that someone proved proof. BTW, I have always enjoyed Norm's posts and have never found reason to question anything he said before this. I don't want anyone, especially Norm, to think I was picking on him. And I am glad that the proof was produced. (Even tho I can't understand it) I could continue whining and claim that perhaps he took what was said the wrong way, but I think this topic should die a natural death. (Now is that death due to lack of O2 or an over abundance of CO2 and would that be considered a natural death?) Craig, you must be a diver of some sort as you covered several points that are discussed in normal rec diving and covered in rebreather diving. Rob Assuming he was talking of liquid water, Density of air, 0 C:1.2920 kg·m^−3 Density of water 4 C: 1000 kg·m^−3 density of granite 2.75 g/cm^3 density of basalt3.0 g/cm^3 Norm is correct. By the way Norm, the technology for extended diving time uses the divers breath circulated through a CO2 scrubber and the cleansed air, now about 16% oxygen, still enough to breathe, is recirculated to the diver with a little bit of make up air from the high-pressure cylinder to keep the pressure right. There is enough oxygen remaining in an exhaled breath to support life, hence mouth-to-mouth resucitation works. CO2 is the main drive for inhaling and exhaling air. When one hyperventilates, the normal CO2 in the blood is blown off, and one can hold one's breath long enough to pass out before the urge to breathe reasserts itself. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
Walt, I just found this detailed commentary. It leaves exact locations up in the air, but gives a well-rounded picture. CBS also reports that the USS Kearsage Amphibious Landing Group has moved to the Eastern end of the Suez Canal. She has USMC Harrier jets embarked plus a Marine EU. Sending a clearer public message about the requirement to evacuate Americans from Egypt would have been advisable as well. Readers of DEBKAfile http://www.debka.com/article/20646/ learned last week that the USS *Kearsarge* (LHD-3) amphibious group arrived in the Great Bitter Lake, at the southern entrance to the Suez Canal, and speculation was rampant as to what this meant. As outlined at the first link above, *Kearsarge* could be there for multiple reasons, but chief among them are (a) the potential need to evacuate large numbers of Americans with armed security provided by the Marine Corps, and (b) the fact that the *Kearsarge* group has been deployed since August 2010 and is due to return home – to the East coast, through the Suez Canal. It’s hard to say whether the question mark over Canal security was a factor in USS *Enterprise *(CVN-65) remaining in the Mediterranean during the last week, but it may have been. I doubt it was the primary factor: we probably wanted to have a carrier on-call in the Med once Egypt erupted. It’s not clear whether *Enterprise* has, in fact, gone through the Canal at this point, but the US Navy website now lists her as being attached to the US Fifth Fleet. That could mean either that she is sitting in Port Said on the Mediterranean side of Egypt, waiting to go through the Canal, or that she is in transit or has just completed it. *Enterprise* deployedhttp://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/enterprise-strike-group-deploysfrom the East coast on 13 January and arrived in Lisbon, Portugal http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=58273for a port visit the day after the first major demonstration in Egypt on the 25th. After entering the Medhttp://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=58296on 31 January, she conducted flight operationshttp://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/uss-enterprise-operating-in-the-mediterranean-sea-se-of-sicily/comment-page-1/#comment-11629in the central Med. From there she transited to a port visit in Marmaris, Turkeyhttp://www.todayszaman.com/news-234882-uss-enterprise-docks-in-marmaris-bay.htmlthat started on 8 February. Her port visit in Marmarishttp://turkishnavy.blogspot.com/2011/02/enterprise-sailors-save-turkish-mans.htmlwas reportedly for four days. *Enterprise* has been scheduled to head to Southwest Asia – the Persian Gulf/Indian Ocean area – where San Diego-based USS *Carl Vinson* (CVN-70) is on-stationhttp://www.centcom.mil/press-releases/uss-carl-vinson-rescues-sailor-who-went-overboard. USS *Abraham Lincoln* (CVN-72), which has been deployed since September, has concluded operations http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=58575there and is probably heading for home port in Bremerton, Washington (no doubt with stops for RR along the way). All of these forces are on scheduled deployments. But there is wild and largely inaccurate speculation about them, and there are no statements from the Obama administration to clarify what their presence means wherever they happen to show up. Providing this clarification is not a matter of chasing around after gray-hull sightings, offering explanations; it should be done by separate political statements of US interests. Because Egypt’s government is in flux – i.e., an important geopolitical condition has changed – US interests and policy priorities need stating. No reference at all need be made to military forces. And when the questions about them start to come, the administration can say, “Well, we don’t talk about those specifics. I’ve stated what our concerns are. I’m confident we can address any contingencies that might crop up, but there’s nothing to be specific about right now. We’ll work with Egypt to ensure that the Canal stays open and safe and that the peace accord in the Sinai is honored.” If the *Kearsarge* group, with the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit embarked, has been supporting evacuation operations, a public commendation would be nice. Ron Rogers ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
Very well said. -Original Message- From: liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com [mailto:liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com] On Behalf Of ahmet erkan Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:51 To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? Typical hit and run tactic for bullies : 1. Attack the person who entertains an opposing idea. 2. Push own opinions (decorated with biased examples) as the only sensible strategy. 3. Push own conclusions. 4. Blame the victim and win support by issuing orders to keep political discussions off the list. Once in a while as a break from boating related subjects, I would prefer to hear Walter's genuine opinions about World affairs, rather than see him bullied. Fair winds Ahmet Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:07:19 -0500 From: rcroge...@gmail.com To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? Steve, You have not received the emails from right-wingers that I have. You have not read Ollie North's column. They all say the the same thing - exactly what Walter said, except they overtly blame the President explicitly. They all parrot the same thing - the first time in 31 years that there has not been a US Navy warship in the Med. These exact same words appear on the few right-wing blogs that I have searched. They all then go on to say what Walter did not - that Obama removed our ships to benefit Muslims! I didn't say it was logical, but it is wondrous how they forget how we got into these wars If you wish to believe that Walter just happened to come up with an innocent question that mirrors what currently pervades right-wing propaganda, that's fine with me. But I know better. Steve, if you want to know about the tooth fairy and Santa Claus, I'd be glad to tell you offline. Walter, keep that crap off this list. Ron Rogers On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Steve Weinstein windso...@pipeline.com wrote: Whoa, Ron, I think that was a way over the top reaction to an innocent question. All Walter wrote was essentially a question. And a perfectly innocuous question at that. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
Thank you, Ahmet. I was NOT trying to make a political statement, we have the best navy in the world, but I realize they can't be everywhere. The ferry evacuating Americans was stuck in Tripoli for several days because of stormy seas, apparently not a very seaworthy vessel, while other ships were able to leave. If you served in any navy you automatically associate Mediterranean and 6th Fleet, so I tried to find it on the know it all Google and was surprised to come up empty. So I thought I ask here if any boater had seen them, about forty ships are hard to hide, only to be unpleasantly surprised. I think they might be patrolling off the Somali coast, which is good, but China just pulled one of their newest frigate off the same patrol to send to Libya, probably the first time a Chinese war ship has entered this area. Walter From: liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com [mailto:liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com] On Behalf Of ahmet erkan Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 12:51 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? Typical hit and run tactic for bullies : ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
I could care less were Walter to praise the President's actions or inaction. I do not think that it is appropriate to take politics onto a list created to discuss living aboard boats - not warships. So yes, I condemn Walter for concealing a political diatribe inside an innocent question. Since many people are not news junkies, I can well imagine that you do not recognize the repetition of political propaganda. I probably made an error in countering Walter's question with facts because I should not have answered his question. I should have just protested his posting something political. Since neither of you can recognize propaganda when you see it (or maybe it represents your viewpoint) I have pasted the origins of his question below: ** *HANNITY:* All right, I'll concur with you. All right, so then what's the future for him? What is the future for North Africa? What is the future for the Middle East? My guess is that we risk more extremism -- *NORTH:* Much more. There are very few options left to this administration because decisions made by the Obama administration to take carriers offline and ships offline. We have no ability to respond in any way militarily. We have no carriers in the Mediterranean today for the first time in 31 years. You have no American carriers in the Mediterranean, no battle groups and you have Iranian ships. Because this administration has made bad decisions all the way along line. It's not a good formula, Sean. The good news is at the end of the day, Muammar Qaddafi is a dead man. Watch the last few minutes: http://tinyurl.com/66zqunn It would appear to me that Walter was spouting the party line. Feel free to let me know what biased examples you are referring to. Facts are not opinions, but don't let facts interfere with your polemics. I may have hit, but I haven't run and I did not stoop to name-calling. Ron Rogers On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 11:51 AM, ahmet erkan ameter...@hotmail.com wrote: Typical hit and run tactic for bullies : 1. Attack the person who entertains an opposing idea. 2. Push own opinions (decorated with biased examples) as the only sensible strategy. 3. Push own conclusions. 4. Blame the victim and win support by issuing orders to keep political discussions off the list. Once in a while as a break from boating related subjects, I would prefer to hear Walter's genuine opinions about World affairs, rather than see him bullied. Fair winds Ahmet ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
while other ships were able to leave. The 3 cruise liners chartered by the Chinese government also had to remain in port owing to the storm. All 4 ships had a rough ride once they did leave port. You are either poorly informed or biased. The Chinese have 30,000 workers in Libya and it will take some time to get them out. All Americans are out. The situation is deteriorating and it is only prudent for the Chinese to provide air cover with a missile frigate until all the trips that they have chartered safely get out of Libya. The US Navy diverted a carrier battle group to surround the motorsailer Quest East of Oman. The carrier battle group*s* are providing air cover to ground forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. They are not dedicated to anti-piracy patrol. We are at war you know. Even in peacetime, the location of Navy ships is classified so no responsible government spokesman should answer as to the location of Sixth Fleet assets. Ron Rogers On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Walter Knopf wal...@knopfconsulting.comwrote: Thank you, Ahmet. I was NOT trying to make a political statement, we have the best navy in the world, but I realize they can't be everywhere. The ferry evacuating Americans was stuck in Tripoli for several days because of stormy seas, apparently not a very seaworthy vessel, while other ships were able to leave. If you served in any navy you automatically associate Mediterranean and 6 th Fleet, so I tried to find it on the know it all Google and was surprised to come up empty. So I thought I ask here if any boater had seen them, about forty ships are hard to hide, only to be unpleasantly surprised. I think they might be patrolling off the Somali coast, which is good, but China just pulled one of their newest frigate off the same patrol to send to Libya, probably the first time a Chinese war ship has entered this area. Walter ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
Ron, I don't need you and your superior knowledge of news to protect me from alternate viewpoints. If you can't handle someone asking a question which may raise the hair on your neck, then find a list of like-minded people. This list is obviously too diverse and open-minded for you. -Neal. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
Amen, Ahmet! Very well said Steve Weinstein S/V CAPTIVA 1997 Hunter 376, Hull #376 Sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY All outgoing mail protected by VIPRE A/V - Original Message - From: ahmet erkan To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? Typical hit and run tactic for bullies : 1. Attack the person who entertains an opposing idea. 2. Push own opinions (decorated with biased examples) as the only sensible strategy. 3. Push own conclusions. 4. Blame the victim and win support by issuing orders to keep political discussions off the list. Once in a while as a break from boating related subjects, I would prefer to hear Walter's genuine opinions about World affairs, rather than see him bullied. Fair winds Ahmet -- Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:07:19 -0500 From: rcroge...@gmail.com To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? Steve, You have not received the emails from right-wingers that I have. You have not read Ollie North's column. They all say the the same thing - exactly what Walter said, except they overtly blame the President explicitly. They all parrot the same thing - the first time in 31 years that there has not been a US Navy warship in the Med. These exact same words appear on the few right-wing blogs that I have searched. They all then go on to say what Walter did not - that Obama removed our ships to benefit Muslims! I didn't say it was logical, but it is wondrous how they forget how we got into these wars If you wish to believe that Walter just happened to come up with an innocent question that mirrors what currently pervades right-wing propaganda, that's fine with me. But I know better. Steve, if you want to know about the tooth fairy and Santa Claus, I'd be glad to tell you offline. Walter, keep that crap off this list. Ron Rogers On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Steve Weinstein windso...@pipeline.com wrote: Whoa, Ron, I think that was a way over the top reaction to an innocent question. All Walter wrote was essentially a question. And a perfectly innocuous question at that. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html -- ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
- Original Message - From: ahmet erkan To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? Typical hit and run tactic for bullies : 1. Attack the person who entertains an opposing idea. 2. Push own opinions (decorated with biased examples) as the only sensible strategy. 3. Push own conclusions. 4. Blame the victim and win support by issuing orders to keep political discussions off the list. Once in a while as a break from boating related subjects, I would prefer to hear Walter's genuine opinions about World affairs, rather than see him bullied. Ignoring for the moment the fact of Ahmet's own usual habit of bitchy little comments and impotent threats (the reason that I kill-filed him quite a while ago; the only time I get to see his posts is when someone else cites them), I must say that in the main, I have to agree with this. I don't see that Walter was pushing any particular agenda, or taking up a political stance. Ron, I understand that you may have been rubbed raw by the current ugly rhetoric about this issue in other places. Please do consider that you may also have been hyper-sensitized by it to the point of treating anything on the subject that does not explicitly espouse your viewpoint as supporting the opposite side. This is neither an accurate perception nor a reasonable way to approach the world. When you reach that point, it may be a good idea to drop the issue, walk away from the keyboard for a while - or possibly kill-file, either permanently or temporarily, people that you find affect your peace of mind. Take a deep breath, sip a cup of tea, go look at the ocean. Then come back in a better frame of mind and talk about something different. No major harm done (not trying to speak for anyone else here, but that's what it looks like to me), no foul. Let it go. Ben -- OKOPNIK CONSULTING Custom Computing Solutions For Your Business Expert-led Training | Dynamic, vital websites | Custom programming 443-250-7895 http://okopnik.com http://twitter.com/okopnik ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
OK Ben, I'm taking my 11 aircraft carriers and going out to play in the sun. I'll go look at the remains of the boats sunk by the fire. I'm really surprised that members of this list find it acceptable to talk politics. Like you, I will simply hit the delete key in future. Sometimes, having worked in the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the State Department can be a liability. Reality sucks. Ron Rogers On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Ben Okopnik b...@okopnik.com wrote: - Original Message - From: ahmet erkan To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? Typical hit and run tactic for bullies : 1. Attack the person who entertains an opposing idea. 2. Push own opinions (decorated with biased examples) as the only sensible strategy. 3. Push own conclusions. 4. Blame the victim and win support by issuing orders to keep political discussions off the list. Once in a while as a break from boating related subjects, I would prefer to hear Walter's genuine opinions about World affairs, rather than see him bullied. Ignoring for the moment the fact of Ahmet's own usual habit of bitchy little comments and impotent threats (the reason that I kill-filed him quite a while ago; the only time I get to see his posts is when someone else cites them), I must say that in the main, I have to agree with this. I don't see that Walter was pushing any particular agenda, or taking up a political stance. Ron, I understand that you may have been rubbed raw by the current ugly rhetoric about this issue in other places. Please do consider that you may also have been hyper-sensitized by it to the point of treating anything on the subject that does not explicitly espouse your viewpoint as supporting the opposite side. This is neither an accurate perception nor a reasonable way to approach the world. When you reach that point, it may be a good idea to drop the issue, walk away from the keyboard for a while - or possibly kill-file, either permanently or temporarily, people that you find affect your peace of mind. Take a deep breath, sip a cup of tea, go look at the ocean. Then come back in a better frame of mind and talk about something different. No major harm done (not trying to speak for anyone else here, but that's what it looks like to me), no foul. Let it go. Ben ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Sea Quell crew. sail...@purebytes.comwrote: Ron, I don't need you and your superior knowledge of news to protect me from alternate viewpoints. If you can't handle someone asking a question which may raise the hair on your neck, then find a list of like-minded people. This list is obviously too diverse and open-minded for you. -Neal. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
On Sun, 2011-02-27 at 15:03 -0500, Ron Rogers wrote: OK Ben, I'm taking my 11 aircraft carriers and going out to play in the sun. Call me Ishmael. Some years ago - never mind how long precisely - having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen, and regulating the circulation. Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos [hypochondria] get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people's hats off - then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can. This is my substitute for pistol and ball. With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship. There is nothing surprising in this. If they but knew it, almost all men in their degree, some time or other, cherish very nearly the same feelings towards the ocean with me. Philip -- S/V ORYOKI Currently lying in Beaufort NC There's no point in making a plan if you're going to pretend to follow it! ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
Where is the 6th Fleet/ For those curious who still want to know . . . . . It looks like it is right where it should be. From what I can see, the USS Enterprise was in Lisbon, Portugal on January 26 to begin its deployment into the Med on February 4, 2011. (http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=58200). From Portugal it was headed into the Med and over to Turkey. The entire carrier strike group was in the med and is apparently still there. http://military-online.blogspot.com/2011/02/6th-fleet-commander-visits-enter prise.html: _ Friday, February 11, 2011 6th Fleet Commander Visits Enterprise http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/110117-N-5324W-005.jpg From Enterprise Strike Group Public Affairs USS ENTERPRISE, At Sea (NNS) -- Commander, U.S. 6th Fleet, visited USS Enterprise (CVN 65) to meet with senior carrier strike group (CSG) leadership, and to thank the crew at the beginning of their deployment, Feb. 4. Vice Adm. Harry B. Harris, Jr., and Command Master Chief (AW/SS/SW/FMF/DV/PJ) Jay R. Wood Jr., command master chief of U.S. 6th Fleet headquarters; flew aboard the deployed aircraft carrier as the CSG continued theater security cooperation efforts in the Mediterranean. What you are doing is important, said Harris. You have already visited Portugal and will soon arrive in Turkey, and these visits are important to our nation and important to 6th Fleet. Later, you will be supporting our combat troops in Afghanistan in the 5th Fleet [area of operations]. I applaud you for your energy and I thank you for your service. The leaders toured the ship and met with Sailors and Marines to thank them personally for their efforts in support of the deployment. During the ship's recent stop in Lisbon, the ship invited more than 1,000 guests to the ship for a reception, tours and media visits during the four-day visit. The crew participated in three community relations projects, and senior military commanders from both countries held briefings and meetings discussing military-to-military capabilities, while the crew took in the sights and sounds that their host nation provided. Enterprise Strike Group consists of Enterprise, the guided-missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf (CG 55), the guided-missile destroyers USS Bulkeley (DDG 84), USS Barry (DDG 52) and USS Mason (DDG 87), USNS Arctic (T-AOE 8), Carrier Air Wing 1 and Destroyer Squadron 2. For news regarding Enterprise Strike Group's deployment, visit the USS Enterprise Facebook page at www.facebook.com/USS.Enterprise.CVN.65. Posted by Sergeant Zachary J. Foster at http://military-online.blogspot.com/2011/02/6th-fleet-commander-visits-ente rprise.html 9:20 PM http://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=37845825postID=1029830259235567 303 http://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=37845825postID=10298302592355673 03 Labels: http://military-online.blogspot.com/search/label/navy navy, http://military-online.blogspot.com/search/label/usns%20arctic usns arctic, http://military-online.blogspot.com/search/label/uss%20barry uss barry, http://military-online.blogspot.com/search/label/uss%20bulkeley uss bulkeley, http://military-online.blogspot.com/search/label/uss%20enterprise uss enterprise, http://military-online.blogspot.com/search/label/uss%20leyte%20gulf uss leyte gulf, http://military-online.blogspot.com/search/label/uss%20mason uss mason Alan Wagner Tampa, Florida Passage of Time _ From: liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com [mailto:liveaboard-boun...@liveaboardonline.com] On Behalf Of Ron Rogers Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 12:40 PM To: liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com Subject: Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet? HANNITY: All right, I'll concur with you. All right, so then what's the future for him? What is the future for North Africa? What is the future for the Middle East? My guess is that we risk more extremism -- NORTH: Much more. There are very few options left to this administration because decisions made by the Obama administration to take carriers offline and ships offline. We have no ability to respond in any way militarily. We have no carriers in the Mediterranean today for the first time in 31 years. You have no American carriers in the Mediterranean, no battle groups and you have Iranian ships. Because this administration has made bad decisions all the way along line. It's not a good formula, Sean. The good news is at the end of the day, Muammar Qaddafi is a dead man. Watch the last few minutes: http://tinyurl.com/66zqunn image003.gifimage002.gifimage001.jpg___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 03:03:39PM -0500, Ron Rogers wrote: OK Ben, I'm taking my 11 aircraft carriers and going out to play in the sun. I'll go look at the remains of the boats sunk by the fire. I'm really surprised that members of this list find it acceptable to talk politics. Like you, I will simply hit the delete key in future. Sometimes, having worked in the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the State Department can be a liability. Reality sucks. Speaking of the fire, how's the environmental remediation been going, and how's your home doing in terms of feeling like home? (Are those sunken boats at least hauled out into a yard where any remaining leakiness can only serve to contaminate, well, marine yard) Cheers, Kris -- Kris Coward http://unripe.melon.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733 830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3 ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
The Liveaboard List is not a political forum. Many right-wing commentators are attacking the administration because we have our warships supporting two wars and a pirate patrol. The Chinese chartered 3 cruise ships! Why would we send warships for a peaceful evacuation? You wanna fight somebody else? We chartered a ferry that holds 600. Of the 300 passengers who left Tripoli on that ferry, only 168 to 200 were Americans. The total number of Americans that were in Libya was 600 to start with. Some took flights to include one US chartered aircraft. I'm still trying to figure out why the Brits sent a destroyer unless it was to save money. She was on her way home to be scrapped. Take your phony facts and politics elsewhere. Ron Rogers On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Walter Knopf wal...@knopfconsulting.comwrote: I am curious, the 6th Fleet is responsible for the Mediterranean, but I haven't heard if they are near Libya to help evacuate US citizens. No Google results, so I wonder if any boat spotted them somewhere else. China is sending war ships to help their nationals, shouldn't we do the same thing? ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
Re: [Liveaboard] Question: where is the 6th Fleet?
Steve, You have not received the emails from right-wingers that I have. You have not read Ollie North's column. They all say the the same thing - exactly what Walter said, except they overtly blame the President explicitly. They all parrot the same thing - the first time in 31 years that there has not been a US Navy warship in the Med. These exact same words appear on the few right-wing blogs that I have searched. They all then go on to say what Walter did not - that Obama removed our ships to benefit Muslims! I didn't say it was logical, but it is wondrous how they forget how we got into these wars If you wish to believe that Walter just happened to come up with an innocent question that mirrors what currently pervades right-wing propaganda, that's fine with me. But I know better. Steve, if you want to know about the tooth fairy and Santa Claus, I'd be glad to tell you offline. Walter, keep that crap off this list. Ron Rogers On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Steve Weinstein windso...@pipeline.comwrote: Whoa, Ron, I think that was a way over the top reaction to an innocent question. All Walter wrote was essentially a question. And a perfectly innocuous question at that. ___ Liveaboard mailing list Liveaboard@liveaboardonline.com To adjust your membership settings over the web http://liveaboardonline.com/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to liveaboard-j...@liveaboardonline.com To unsubscribe send an email to liveaboard-le...@liveaboardonline.com The archives are at http://www.liveaboardonline.com/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/liveaboard@liveaboardnow.org The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
