freshmeat
For some reason netscape can't find freshmeat.net. Strangely, running lynx on my computer in utah or on nazgul *also* can't find it. What's going on? -Amir
Re: freshmeat
On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 12:10:04PM -0400, Garst R. Reese wrote: > I have this problem periodically. Maybe when they get too many hits? I don't buy it. When that happens you might get a "server may be down or unreachable. Try again later." Also, nslookup (even though I don't *really* know what it is) finds www.lyx.org but not www.freshmeat.net. -Amir
new home page
OK, I've created a new version of the home page. I started with Larry's version of Martin's PR paragraphs. I took the first paragraph and put it in "What is LyX?". Then I added a couple sentences, and moved the LGT back to the top of the page. I think the intro paragraphs are still short enough that "1.0 is released!" doesn't get lost. I took Larry's second paragraph and put it under the v1.0 stuff. I had to change it a bit to fit in with the rest of the page, and I mentioned the math editor, since it's not mentioned anywhere else on the page and it's one of LyX's best features (at *least* as worth of mention as LyX's margin support!) Changed the ftp link to stable/lyx-1.0.0. We *ought* to link to pub/lyx/lyx-current, but that file is still linked to 0.12. As soon as it gets fixed, I think the home page should be (re-)updated. Finally, I put an LGT link in the navbar. I was worried that that would make the navbar different on different pages, but you know what, they already *are* different on different pages (Henner Zeller exists on some, e.g.), so who cares? At some point, we'll need to go through and make everything standard, but for now I'm more concerned about accurate links and such. Let me know about typing errors et al. -Amir Title: LyX - The Document Processor LyX - The Document Processor Navigate Main page More about LyX Screenshots License Features How to get it Graphical Tour Feedback Mailing Lists Developers Only LyX Links David Johnson includes a Rogue's Gallery of some of the LyX Team members Matthias Ettrich in Germany by the founder of the project (partially obsolete) Alejandro Aguilar "LyX, el Procesador de Palabras" - a page in Spanish Asger Alstrup another one in Danish: "LyX - et tekstbehandlings system til Unix" Jürgen Vigna a LyX page located in Italy Allan Rae located in the southern hemisphere, in Australia to be exact Mailing List Archives Announcement list User's list Developer's list What is LyX? LyX is an advanced UNIX open source "document processor". Unlike standard word processors, LyX encourages writing based on the structure of your documents, not their appearance, It lets you concentrate on writing, leaving details of visual layout to the software. With the familiar face of a WSYWIG word processor, LyX produces high quality, professional output -- using LaTeX, an industrial strength typesetting engine. No knowledge of LaTeX is required to use LyX; however, there is also a "TeX mode" which allows you to enter plain LaTeX commands. Read more about LyX here. The LyX Graphical Tour New! Our Doc Team has produced an excellent Graphical Tour of LyX, which demonstrates some of the key features of LyX in a graphical way. Check it out! LyX version 1.0 has been released! As promised, LyX v1.0.0 was released on February 1, 1999. LyX version 1.0 has a few new features since version 0.12.0. Compared to the more widely released 0.10.7, version 1.0 is an immense improvement. This release offers extensive control over fonts, margins, headers/footers, spacing/indents, justification, bullet types in multilevel lists, included figures, a sophisticated table editor, an outstanding math editor, and version control for collaborative projects. Brand new to LyX is a solid import filter for legacy LaTeX documents. LyX 1.0 also includes a (constantly growing) library of formats and templates for letters, articles, books, overheads, even Hollywood scripts. Lots and lots of new features have been added, speed has improved, documentation has been rewritten basically from scratch -- the list of improvements is too long to mention here. Check out the WHATSNEW and CHANGES files in the distribution, or look at the Features page. How to get LyX Latest Stable Release Here's a link to the latest stable sources at the main LyX site in France: lyx-1.0.0.tar.gz. There are also mirrors available. Check the "How to get it" page. Pre-releases (if any) of new stable versions are here. Also, you can get the very latest bugfixes from the LyX developer's site via anonymous CVS. Development versions Development releases are
freshmeat
re larry's message: I suspect they're using the ANNOUNCE, which has unfortunately still got the old text. Sorry! We ought to change it and the README before 1.0.1, but it's too late for that now. Well, at least the site's back up. -Amir
Re: mailinglists on webpage
On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 02:32:49PM -0600, Roland Krause wrote: > That's what I was saying, > if you want the /. dudes attention you'll have to go over the license. > But as Rick is the only one who has a clue about that, I would ask him. > He's the guy who they are going to flame the living crap out of... > > Roland > > On 03-Feb-99 Asger K. Alstrup Nielsen wrote: > > > > Well, at least the linuxtoday.com site posted the press release. > > Let's hope LWN, freshmeat and the others will make a more proper notice > > of it now that the announcement is "officially" out. > > > > Slashdot is not all, after all. Did you send the announcement to the > > Slashdot dude? If he does not respond to it, we might point to the license > > stuff to try to get some more attention, although attention of the > > program is better than of the license. > > I think it would be a bad idea to bring up the license stuff. The muttonheads will fill up Rick's mailbox, and any attention it gets won't be attention that makes people want to use the program. lyx.org has gotten another 1000 hits since I said they had 5500. I think that's plenty of attention, thank you. (Obviously, most of the hits aren't actually downloading, especially since about 50% of that is me comparing my new versions of the pages to the originals :) It was mentioned as a quickie on slashdot, which is more than most programs get. Anyway, we decided that 1.2 is going to be the super-PR tell everyone in the world about LyX release. For now, let's: - make new users comfortable with 1.0.0. This will give us practice helping newbies. If we're lucky, we'll also pick up a couple new devvies out of this. - release 1.0.1 soon, with lots of bugfixes - make the 1.1 release cycle faster than 0.11 was. I think we should consider this release a learning experience. One thing I've learned is that as soon as 1.2pre1 comes out, anyone who's not fixing bugs should be updating all of the text files, making last minute fixes to the docs, and *updating the website*, so that on Release day 1.2, we don't run into the kind of mess we're having today. Yes, that's at least a few months away, but let's not forget these lessons! -Amir
Re: mailinglists on webpage
On Wed, Feb 03, 1999 at 04:03:59PM -0500, Rich Fields at 407.356.5842 wrote: > > I'm glad you said this. I'd never been there before and was > rather appalled when I looked at /. for the first > time a few minutes ago. I wouldn't worry about lack of > coverage from this place... Probably not the place to argue about this, but... I think the discussion boards are at *least* 90% waste. People saying "me too" and flames, plus people impressed with themselves trying and failing to impress everyone else. *However*, although I never read the comments, I'm interested by the majority of the links they provide each day. Open source stuff, new programs that are interseting, science geek stuff, new cool hardware. News for nerds. The reason to be worried about lack of coverage is that they get some 40 hits per day. From people more likely than the average cnn.com reader to actually download lyx and try it. -Amir
Re: www.lyx.org
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 12:15:02PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: Are we going to put some kind of flashing banner, or at least some words visible at the *top* of the page, to indicate 1.0 has been released? Well, there ought to be *something*. Here's a potential something. I hope I'm not wrong in listing latex import as "the" new feature since 0.12. But I *did* get the impression that that was the main reason 0.12.2 turned into 1.0. I feel like the description of the version is still a bit awkward. I wanted to compare it to 0.10.7 since that's what most people have... Also unfortunate: it seemed most logical to move the LGT to after the "how to get it", but that puts it near the bottom of the page. I think the LGT deserves better, but don't really know what to do about it. By the way, I linked to lyx-current.tar.gz, so Lars can't put this page up until he fixes ftp.lyx. Speaking of ftp, I linked to ftp.lyx.org, and to getit.html for mirrors. If I do that, though, there are *no* links to la1ad. Should that be on the getit.html page? I really don't like flashing banners, so I just made it an h2. Some might argue that we should put "Lyx has been released" even before "what is lyx". If so, we could easily cut paste the two sections. But if we want the page not to be obsolete next week, maybe having "what is lyx" on top is still a good idea (as long as it's not too long a section). I hope a few people will proofread this, since we're hoping to get a bunch of hits to this page. (Lars, it might be fun to take a daily snapshot of the number of hits you've gotten, and see if it changes when the press releases come out. Slashdot has a link today to a paper examining the slashdot effect, which shows that hits went up to I think 250/minute within like 15 minutes of posting on slashdot.) Incidentally, I suppose if you put this file in, you'll need to replace the hits script, right? Because my copy has a certain number of hits. I really don't know anything about hit counters... -Amir Title: LyX - The Document Processor LyX - The Document Processor Navigate Main page More about LyX Screenshots License Features How to get it Feedback Mailing Lists Developers Only LyX Links David Johnson includes a Rogue's Gallery of some of the LyX Team members Matthias Ettrich in Germany by the founder of the project (partially obsolete) Alejandro Aguilar "LyX, el Procesador de Palabras" - a page in Spanish Asger Alstrup another one in Danish: "LyX - et tekstbehandlings system til Unix" Jürgen Vigna a LyX page located in Italy Allan Rae located in the southern hemisphere, in Australia to be exact Mailing List Archives Announcement list User's list Developer's list What is LyX? LyX is a free program that provides a more modern approach of writing documents with a computer. Compared to common word processors, LyX increases productivity, since the job of typesetting is done mostly by the computer, not the author. Technically this is done by combining the comfortable interface of a WYSIWYG word processor with the high quality output of LaTeX, one of the most popular typesetting systems available. No knowledge of LaTeX is required to use LyX. Read more here. LyX version 1.0 has been released! As promised, LyX v1.0.0 was released on February 1, 1999. LyX version 1.0 has a few new features since version 0.12.0, including importing LaTeX files. Compared to the more widely released 0.10.7, version 1.0 is an immense improvement. Lots and lots of new features have been added, speed has improved, documentation has been rewritten basically from scratch -- the list of improvements is too long to mention here. Check out the WHATSNEW and CHANGES files in the distribution, or look at the Features page. How to get LyX Latest Stable Release Here's a link to the latest stable sources at the main LyX site in France: lyx-current.tar.gz. There are also mirrors available. Check the "How to get it" page. Pre-releases (if any) of new stable versions are here. Also, you can get the very latest bugfixes from the LyX developer's site via anonymous CVS. Development versions Development releases are not for general use because they are by definition unstable and the
Re: Lyx 1.0.0 crashing on view/export DVI pr PS
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 03:51:28PM -0200, Pedro Kroger wrote: Hi all, I got the newest lyx, the 1.0.0 release, but I had some problems: As in man page, I set the Enviroment LYX_DIR_10x to the libdir /usr/X11R6/share/lyx in my profile and get the error : LYX_DIR_10x environment variable no good. System directory set to: ./ I know this may sound crazy, but I seem to remember having trouble with this, and putting a slash at the end of the directory helped. I.e. you would set it to /usr/X11R6/share/lyx/ I don't have any idea of the other problems you're having. -Amir
Re: www.lyx.org
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 01:44:15PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: You have the press release, right? The language, while shorter, should be pretty close. We certainly list a lot of new features in 1.0. The comparison seems fairly to be against 0.10.7, as this is the most widely tried version among the potential user base out there. Hm. I actually don't have the press release with me, although I suppose I could get it. You or Martin could distill the press release into a six sentence blurb to put up as "what is lyx". If folks like it better than what's currently there, then it will probably replace the current text. While we're at it, much of the press release *could* go to replace about.html. I actually like the language of about.html, even though it's totally different from the language of the PR. So maybe we should just keep it. An alternative would be to link to the press release from the "1.0 has been released" section of the main page. Anyway, I've been focusing on fixing broken links and updating obsolete or missing text, as opposed to improving current language (although that is certainly a noble goal). -Amir
Re: LGT-1.0a is now online
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 12:21:28PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, (Assume many smiley's in this message - I know it isn't Friday, but it feels like it ...) Asger has graciously put version 1.0a of the LGT online. It really should be v1.1, but I didn't think it was going to be as much work as it turned out to be. Changes: [snip!] Looks great! BTW, someone commented about the LGT showing up too low on the main Web page. How about the following addition: in the main 1.0.0 release paragraph, why not change it to LyX version 1.0 has a few new features since version 0.12.0, including importing LaTeX files. Compared to the more widely released 0.10.7, version 1.0 is an immense improvement. Lots and lots of new features have been added, speed has improved, documentation has been rewritten basically from scratch -- the list of improvements is too long to mention here. Check out the WHATSNEW and CHANGES files in the distribution, or look at the Features page. If you are completely new to LyX or haven't used it in a long time, take the Graphical Tour to get a feel for how LyX 1.0.0 works. The problem I have with this solution is that the LGT is buried at the bottom of a paragraph. Do you mean do this in addition to the LGT paragraph below? That could work. Alternatively, the LGT paragraph could be placed at the end of the "What is LyX?" section. It's short enough that "1.0 is released!" will still be available on the average browser. The truth is, the LGT kind of fits in best with "What is LyX", doesn't it? -Amir
Re: www.lyx.org
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 12:15:02PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: > Are we going to put some kind of flashing banner, or at least some words > visible at the *top* of the page, to indicate 1.0 has been released? > Well, there ought to be *something*. Here's a potential something. I hope I'm not wrong in listing latex import as "the" new feature since 0.12. But I *did* get the impression that that was the main reason 0.12.2 turned into 1.0. I feel like the description of the version is still a bit awkward. I wanted to compare it to 0.10.7 since that's what most people have... Also unfortunate: it seemed most logical to move the LGT to after the "how to get it", but that puts it near the bottom of the page. I think the LGT deserves better, but don't really know what to do about it. By the way, I linked to lyx-current.tar.gz, so Lars can't put this page up until he fixes ftp.lyx. Speaking of ftp, I linked to ftp.lyx.org, and to getit.html for mirrors. If I do that, though, there are *no* links to la1ad. Should that be on the getit.html page? I really don't like flashing banners, so I just made it an . Some might argue that we should put "Lyx has been released" even before "what is lyx". If so, we could easily cut & paste the two sections. But if we want the page not to be obsolete next week, maybe having "what is lyx" on top is still a good idea (as long as it's not too long a section). I hope a few people will proofread this, since we're hoping to get a bunch of hits to this page. (Lars, it might be fun to take a daily snapshot of the number of hits you've gotten, and see if it changes when the press releases come out. Slashdot has a link today to a paper examining the slashdot effect, which shows that hits went up to I think 250/minute within like 15 minutes of posting on slashdot.) Incidentally, I suppose if you put this file in, you'll need to replace the hits script, right? Because my copy has a certain number of hits. I really don't know anything about hit counters... -Amir Title: LyX - The Document Processor LyX - The Document Processor Navigate Main page More about LyX Screenshots License Features How to get it Feedback Mailing Lists Developers Only LyX Links David Johnson includes a Rogue's Gallery of some of the LyX Team members Matthias Ettrich in Germany by the founder of the project (partially obsolete) Alejandro Aguilar "LyX, el Procesador de Palabras" - a page in Spanish Asger Alstrup another one in Danish: "LyX - et tekstbehandlings system til Unix" Jürgen Vigna a LyX page located in Italy Allan Rae located in the southern hemisphere, in Australia to be exact Mailing List Archives Announcement list User's list Developer's list What is LyX? LyX is a free program that provides a more modern approach of writing documents with a computer. Compared to common word processors, LyX increases productivity, since the job of typesetting is done mostly by the computer, not the author. Technically this is done by combining the comfortable interface of a WYSIWYG word processor with the high quality output of LaTeX, one of the most popular typesetting systems available. No knowledge of LaTeX is required to use LyX. Read more here. LyX version 1.0 has been released! As promised, LyX v1.0.0 was released on February 1, 1999. LyX version 1.0 has a few new features since version 0.12.0, including importing LaTeX files. Compared to the more widely released 0.10.7, version 1.0 is an immense improvement. Lots and lots of new features have been added, speed has improved, documentation has been rewritten basically from scratch -- the list of improvements is too long to mention here. Check out the WHATSNEW and CHANGES files in the distribution, or look at the Features page. How to get LyX Latest Stable Release Here's a link to the latest stable sources at the main LyX site in France: lyx-current.tar.gz. There are also mirrors available. Check the "How to get it" page. Pre-releases (if any) of new stable versions are here. Also, you can get the very latest bugfixes from the LyX developer's site via anonymous CVS. Development versions Development releases are not for general use because they are by definition unstable and the
Re: Lyx 1.0.0 crashing on view/export DVI pr PS
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 03:51:28PM -0200, Pedro Kroger wrote: > Hi all, > > I got the newest lyx, the 1.0.0 release, but I had some problems: > As in man page, I set the Enviroment LYX_DIR_10x to the libdir > /usr/X11R6/share/lyx in my profile and get the error : > > LYX_DIR_10x environment variable no good. > System directory set to: ./ I know this may sound crazy, but I seem to remember having trouble with this, and putting a slash at the end of the directory helped. I.e. you would set it to /usr/X11R6/share/lyx/ I don't have any idea of the other problems you're having. -Amir
Re: www.lyx.org
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 01:44:15PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: > You have the press release, right? The language, while shorter, should be > pretty close. We certainly list a lot of new features in 1.0. The > comparison seems fairly to be against 0.10.7, as this is the most widely > tried version among the potential user base out there. > Hm. I actually don't have the press release with me, although I suppose I could get it. You or Martin could distill the press release into a six sentence blurb to put up as "what is lyx". If folks like it better than what's currently there, then it will probably replace the current text. While we're at it, much of the press release *could* go to replace about.html. I actually like the language of about.html, even though it's totally different from the language of the PR. So maybe we should just keep it. An alternative would be to link to the press release from the "1.0 has been released" section of the main page. Anyway, I've been focusing on fixing broken links and updating obsolete or missing text, as opposed to improving current language (although that is certainly a noble goal). -Amir
Re: LGT-1.0a is now online
On Tue, Feb 02, 1999 at 12:21:28PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello, > > (Assume many smiley's in this message - I know it isn't Friday, but it > feels like it ...) > > Asger has graciously put version 1.0a of the LGT online. It really should > be v1.1, but I didn't think it was going to be as much work as it turned > out to be. > > Changes: > > [snip!] Looks great! > BTW, someone commented about the LGT showing up too low on the main Web > page. How about the following addition: in the main 1.0.0 release > paragraph, why not change it to > > LyX version 1.0 has a few new features since version 0.12.0, including > importing LaTeX files. Compared to the more widely released 0.10.7, > version 1.0 is an immense improvement. Lots and lots of new features have > been added, speed has improved, documentation has been rewritten basically > from scratch -- the list of improvements is too long to mention here. > Check out the WHATSNEW and CHANGES files in the distribution, or look at > the Features page. If you are completely new to LyX or haven't used it in > a long time, take the to get a feel for how LyX 1.0.0 > works. The problem I have with this solution is that the LGT is buried at the bottom of a paragraph. Do you mean do this in addition to the LGT paragraph below? That could work. Alternatively, the LGT paragraph could be placed at the end of the "What is LyX?" section. It's short enough that "1.0 is released!" will still be available on the average browser. The truth is, the LGT kind of fits in best with "What is LyX", doesn't it? -Amir
obsolete web page
There's a *completely* obsolete web page at http://www.via.ecp.fr/lyx/. For example, it says an equation editor and WYSIWYG figures are being planned, and lists Matthias' page as the lyx home page. I'm particularly worried about this page since it's at via, and people ftp'ing there might try http'ing there too. Is there any way to get this page removed, or redirected to www.lyx.org? -Amir
archive
Oh. But if the via web site is killed, the old lyx-devel archive (at via.ecp.fr/lyx/archive) will die with it. I guess the main web page could just be a link to www.lyx.org plus a link to the archive? Or if there's enough room, perhaps the archive could just be pulled to the current www.lyx.org? -Amir
web site mirrors?
During our recent begging for server space, didn't we get a bunch of offers for web site space? I think we ought to take people up on that. You know, to have a www.us.lyx.org etc. That way, there will be less pressure on people to have (and maintain!) their own web sites, and access will be quicker for everyone. devel.lyx.org might be harder to mirror because of the CVS stuff, but www.lyx.org is the site where we're expecting a few hundred thousand hits tomorrow :) -Amir
mailing.html
OK, I've re-re-written mailing.html to show the new mailing lists (again). I also included a note that we plan to change lyx-users soon. If a couple people could proofread it for spelling et al., that would be nice. Then asger can post it. I hope you like my formatting choices. If not, I could probably change them. I tried to keep the page short but clear. -Amir Title: LyX - Mailing Lists Mailing Lists Navigate Main page More about LyX Screenshots License Features How to get it Feedback Mailing Lists Developers Only LyX Links David Johnson includes a Rogue's Gallery of some of the LyX Team members Matthias Ettrich in Germany by the founder of the project (partially obsolete) Alejandro Aguilar "LyX, el Procesador de Palabras" - a page in Spanish Asger Alstrup another one in Danish: "LyX - et tekstbehandlings system til Unix" Jürgen Vigna a LyX page located in Italy Allan Rae located in the southern hemisphere, in Australia to be exact Mailing List Archives Announcement list User's list Developer's list Mailing Lists There are three different mailing lists related to LyX: The Announcement list. Very low volume. (archive) The User's list. Medium volume. (archive) The Developer's list. High volume. (archive) They each serve a different purpose. You can check the archives to get a feeling for which might be relevant to you. The developer's list also features a digest, which will have the same volume as the developer's list, of course, but lower frequency. How the mailing lists work All of the mailing lists except for the user's mailing list use the same simple software. (We're hoping to change the lyx-users lists soon, too). For a hypothetical lyx-foo mailing list, you would send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to contribute, i.e., to send a message to everyone on the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message, which will tell you how to do things like get an index of messages, retrieve one or more messages, or contact the (human) list owner Note: the address is the important thing; the subject and body of the message can be completely empty! Announcement list This mailing list is indended for announcements concerning LyX, in particular new stable versions. Send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message The only person allowed to post to this list is me, [EMAIL PROTECTED], so if you have something really important that the rest of the LyX community needs to know, send me a message that I can forward. The list is archived here. User's list Use this list if you have questions on how to get LyX working, how to use LyX and other question related to usage. To subscribe, you simply have to write a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the single word 'subscribe' in the subject line. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. The list is archived here and here. Developer's list This list is intended only for the discussion of subjects relevant to the implementation, planning, hacking and improvement of LyX. This means that bug reports should go here, but please read Help->Known bugs inside LyX before submitting any. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For other mailing list functions, send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message The list is archived at a new archive. and an old archive Developer's list digest Because the developer's list has such high volume, a digest has been set up. The digest is sent out to subscribers with (usually) 30 messages in it. It begins with a "table of contents" of the messages grouped by subject. Send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL
Re: mailing.html
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 01:39:56PM -0600, Mate Wierdl wrote: Delete --- The only person allowed to post to this list is me, [EMAIL PROTECTED], so if you have something really important that the rest of the LyX community needs to know, send me a message that I can forward. -- The fact is now that any subscriber can post---lars did not even want moderation to be set up. Mate Huh? I guess there's no reason to think that some random person would write stuff to that list, but why even allow the possibility that they would do it, purposely or unpurposely? -Amir
Re: [MAILER-DAEMON@via.ecp.fr: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:24:03PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, postmaster didn't send me back an "unknown" so I'm assuming that it got there and I can wait a day or so for the response, rather than sending a copy to admin which might annoy whoever gets two copies (since we all know it's really annoying to get two copies of mail). So am I right in guessing that you're not going to release 1.0 in the next hour? You're already too late as far as Allan Rae is concerned, e.g. -Amir
Re: web site mirrors?
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:25:13PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: *Amir Karger writes: | During our recent begging for server space, didn't we get a bunch | of offers for web site space? I think we ought to take people up on | that. You know, to have a www.us.lyx.org etc. That way, there will | be less pressure on people to have (and maintain!) their own web | sites, and access will be quicker for everyone. devel.lyx.org might | be harder to mirror because of the CVS stuff, but www.lyx.org is | the site where we're expecting a few hundred thousand hits tomorrow | :) We need to setup a mirror scheme. Should not be very hard. using rsync. Great idea! Well, if 1.0 isn't going out today, then a really great time to do this would be *right now*, before 1.0 does go out. And if there's any administrative work involved, someone who can't fix bugs, write remaining docs, etc. would be just perfect to do it. Did anyone think to make a list of the sites that offered to create mirrors for us or do we need to search through the archives? I assume most of these places have mirrored lots of sites and it will be very simple to have them mirror one more place. It would be nice eventually to alias them to us.lyx.org and stuff, but that's less important to start with. Our first priority is just to allow lots of hits on the off chance that a lot of people read the press releases and decide to try it out. It couldn't hurt to mirror the lyx source and/or binaries too, if there's enough space at the mirror sites. -Amir
Re: mailing.html
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 11:08:14PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: *Amir Karger writes: | On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 01:39:56PM -0600, Mate Wierdl wrote: || Delete || || --- The only person allowed to post to this list is me, || [EMAIL PROTECTED], so if you have something really important that the || rest of the LyX community needs to know, send me a message that I || can forward. -- || || The fact is now that any subscriber can post---lars did not even || want moderation to be set up. || || Mate | Huh? I guess there's no reason to think that some random person | would write stuff to that list, but why even allow the possibility | that they would do it, purposely or unpurposely? Why have the burdon on moderation when there is no problem? We can always add moderation later. I'm just saying I can't imagine a reason why anyone except you would want to post. But hey, you're the boss. I'm attaching mailing_2.html. Please replace mailing.html with this (unless there's a problem with it...). -Amir Title: LyX - Mailing Lists Mailing Lists Navigate Main page More about LyX Screenshots License Features How to get it Feedback Mailing Lists Developers Only LyX Links David Johnson includes a Rogue's Gallery of some of the LyX Team members Matthias Ettrich in Germany by the founder of the project (partially obsolete) Alejandro Aguilar "LyX, el Procesador de Palabras" - a page in Spanish Asger Alstrup another one in Danish: "LyX - et tekstbehandlings system til Unix" Jürgen Vigna a LyX page located in Italy Allan Rae located in the southern hemisphere, in Australia to be exact Mailing List Archives Announcement list User's list Developer's list Mailing Lists There are three different mailing lists related to LyX: The Announcement list. Very low volume. (archive) The User's list. Medium volume. (archive) The Developer's list. High volume. (archive) They each serve a different purpose. You can check the archives to get a feeling for which might be relevant to you. The developer's list also features a digest, which will have the same volume as the developer's list, of course, but lower frequency. How the mailing lists work All of the mailing lists except for the user's mailing list use the same simple software. (We're hoping to change the lyx-users lists soon, too). For a hypothetical lyx-foo mailing list, you would send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to contribute, i.e., to send a message to everyone on the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message, which will tell you how to do things like get an index of messages, retrieve one or more messages, or contact the (human) list owner Note: the address is the important thing; the subject and body of the message can be completely empty! Announcement list This mailing list is indended for announcements concerning LyX, in particular new stable versions. Send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message The list is archived here. User's list Use this list if you have questions on how to get LyX working, how to use LyX and other question related to usage. To subscribe, you simply have to write a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the single word 'subscribe' in the subject line. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. The list is archived here and here. Developer's list This list is intended only for the discussion of subjects relevant to the implementation, planning, hacking and improvement of LyX. This means that bug reports should go here, but please read Help->Known bugs inside LyX before submitting any. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For other mailing list functions, send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscr
obsolete web page
There's a *completely* obsolete web page at http://www.via.ecp.fr/lyx/. For example, it says an equation editor and WYSIWYG figures are being planned, and lists Matthias' page as the lyx home page. I'm particularly worried about this page since it's at via, and people ftp'ing there might try http'ing there too. Is there any way to get this page removed, or redirected to www.lyx.org? -Amir
archive
Oh. But if the via web site is killed, the old lyx-devel archive (at via.ecp.fr/lyx/archive) will die with it. I guess the main web page could just be a link to www.lyx.org plus a link to the archive? Or if there's enough room, perhaps the archive could just be pulled to the current www.lyx.org? -Amir
web site mirrors?
During our recent begging for server space, didn't we get a bunch of offers for web site space? I think we ought to take people up on that. You know, to have a www.us.lyx.org etc. That way, there will be less pressure on people to have (and maintain!) their own web sites, and access will be quicker for everyone. devel.lyx.org might be harder to mirror because of the CVS stuff, but www.lyx.org is the site where we're expecting a few hundred thousand hits tomorrow :) -Amir
mailing.html
OK, I've re-re-written mailing.html to show the new mailing lists (again). I also included a note that we plan to change lyx-users soon. If a couple people could proofread it for spelling et al., that would be nice. Then asger can post it. I hope you like my formatting choices. If not, I could probably change them. I tried to keep the page short but clear. -Amir Title: LyX - Mailing Lists Mailing Lists Navigate Main page More about LyX Screenshots License Features How to get it Feedback Mailing Lists Developers Only LyX Links David Johnson includes a Rogue's Gallery of some of the LyX Team members Matthias Ettrich in Germany by the founder of the project (partially obsolete) Alejandro Aguilar "LyX, el Procesador de Palabras" - a page in Spanish Asger Alstrup another one in Danish: "LyX - et tekstbehandlings system til Unix" Jürgen Vigna a LyX page located in Italy Allan Rae located in the southern hemisphere, in Australia to be exact Mailing List Archives Announcement list User's list Developer's list Mailing Lists There are three different mailing lists related to LyX: The Announcement list. Very low volume. (archive) The User's list. Medium volume. (archive) The Developer's list. High volume. (archive) They each serve a different purpose. You can check the archives to get a feeling for which might be relevant to you. The developer's list also features a digest, which will have the same volume as the developer's list, of course, but lower frequency. How the mailing lists work All of the mailing lists except for the user's mailing list use the same simple software. (We're hoping to change the lyx-users lists soon, too). For a hypothetical lyx-foo mailing list, you would send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to contribute, i.e., to send a message to everyone on the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message, which will tell you how to do things like get an index of messages, retrieve one or more messages, or contact the (human) list owner Note: the address is the important thing; the subject and body of the message can be completely empty! Announcement list This mailing list is indended for announcements concerning LyX, in particular new stable versions. Send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message The only person allowed to post to this list is me, [EMAIL PROTECTED], so if you have something really important that the rest of the LyX community needs to know, send me a message that I can forward. The list is archived here. User's list Use this list if you have questions on how to get LyX working, how to use LyX and other question related to usage. To subscribe, you simply have to write a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the single word 'subscribe' in the subject line. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. The list is archived here and here. Developer's list This list is intended only for the discussion of subjects relevant to the implementation, planning, hacking and improvement of LyX. This means that bug reports should go here, but please read Help->Known bugs inside LyX before submitting any. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For other mailing list functions, send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message The list is archived at a new archive. and an old archive Developer's list digest Because the developer's list has such high volume, a digest has been set up. The digest is sent out to subscribers with (usually) 30 messages in it. It begins with a "table of contents" of the messages grouped by subject. Send mail (can be empty) to:
Re: mailing.html
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 01:39:56PM -0600, Mate Wierdl wrote: > Delete > > --- > The only person allowed to post to this list is me, [EMAIL PROTECTED], so > if you have something really important that the rest of the LyX > community needs to know, send me a message that I can forward. > -- > > The fact is now that any subscriber can post---lars did not even want > moderation to be set up. > > Mate Huh? I guess there's no reason to think that some random person would write stuff to that list, but why even allow the possibility that they would do it, purposely or unpurposely? -Amir
Re: [MAILER-DAEMON@via.ecp.fr: Returned mail: User unknown]
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:24:03PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, postmaster didn't send me back an "unknown" so I'm assuming that it got there and I can wait a day or so for the response, rather than sending a copy to admin which might annoy whoever gets two copies (since we all know it's really annoying to get two copies of mail). So am I right in guessing that you're not going to release 1.0 in the next hour? You're already too late as far as Allan Rae is concerned, e.g. -Amir
Re: web site mirrors?
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 09:25:13PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: > *Amir Karger writes: > | During our recent begging for server space, didn't we get a bunch > | of offers for web site space? I think we ought to take people up on > | that. You know, to have a www.us.lyx.org etc. That way, there will > | be less pressure on people to have (and maintain!) their own web > | sites, and access will be quicker for everyone. devel.lyx.org might > | be harder to mirror because of the CVS stuff, but www.lyx.org is > | the site where we're expecting a few hundred thousand hits tomorrow > | :) > > We need to setup a mirror scheme. > > Should not be very hard. > > using rsync. Great idea! Well, if 1.0 isn't going out today, then a really great time to do this would be *right now*, before 1.0 does go out. And if there's any administrative work involved, someone who can't fix bugs, write remaining docs, etc. would be just perfect to do it. Did anyone think to make a list of the sites that offered to create mirrors for us or do we need to search through the archives? I assume most of these places have mirrored lots of sites and it will be very simple to have them mirror one more place. It would be nice eventually to alias them to us.lyx.org and stuff, but that's less important to start with. Our first priority is just to allow lots of hits on the off chance that a lot of people read the press releases and decide to try it out. It couldn't hurt to mirror the lyx source and/or binaries too, if there's enough space at the mirror sites. -Amir
Re: mailing.html
On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 11:08:14PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote: > *Amir Karger writes: > | On Mon, Feb 01, 1999 at 01:39:56PM -0600, Mate Wierdl wrote: > || Delete > || > || --- The only person allowed to post to this list is me, > || [EMAIL PROTECTED], so if you have something really important that the > || rest of the LyX community needs to know, send me a message that I > || can forward. -- > || > || The fact is now that any subscriber can post---lars did not even > || want moderation to be set up. > || > || Mate > | Huh? I guess there's no reason to think that some random person > | would write stuff to that list, but why even allow the possibility > | that they would do it, purposely or unpurposely? > > Why have the burdon on moderation when there is no problem? > > We can always add moderation later. I'm just saying I can't imagine a reason why anyone except you would want to post. But hey, you're the boss. I'm attaching mailing_2.html. Please replace mailing.html with this (unless there's a problem with it...). -Amir Title: LyX - Mailing Lists Mailing Lists Navigate Main page More about LyX Screenshots License Features How to get it Feedback Mailing Lists Developers Only LyX Links David Johnson includes a Rogue's Gallery of some of the LyX Team members Matthias Ettrich in Germany by the founder of the project (partially obsolete) Alejandro Aguilar "LyX, el Procesador de Palabras" - a page in Spanish Asger Alstrup another one in Danish: "LyX - et tekstbehandlings system til Unix" Jürgen Vigna a LyX page located in Italy Allan Rae located in the southern hemisphere, in Australia to be exact Mailing List Archives Announcement list User's list Developer's list Mailing Lists There are three different mailing lists related to LyX: The Announcement list. Very low volume. (archive) The User's list. Medium volume. (archive) The Developer's list. High volume. (archive) They each serve a different purpose. You can check the archives to get a feeling for which might be relevant to you. The developer's list also features a digest, which will have the same volume as the developer's list, of course, but lower frequency. How the mailing lists work All of the mailing lists except for the user's mailing list use the same simple software. (We're hoping to change the lyx-users lists soon, too). For a hypothetical lyx-foo mailing list, you would send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to contribute, i.e., to send a message to everyone on the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message, which will tell you how to do things like get an index of messages, retrieve one or more messages, or contact the (human) list owner Note: the address is the important thing; the subject and body of the message can be completely empty! Announcement list This mailing list is indended for announcements concerning LyX, in particular new stable versions. Send mail (can be empty) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] to unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a help message The list is archived here. User's list Use this list if you have questions on how to get LyX working, how to use LyX and other question related to usage. To subscribe, you simply have to write a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the single word 'subscribe' in the subject line. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. The list is archived here and here. Developer's list This list is intended only for the discussion of subjects relevant to the implementation, planning, hacking and improvement of LyX. This means that bug reports should go here, but please read Help->Known bugs inside LyX before submitting any. To contribute to the mailing list, mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For other mailin
Re: PR-1.0.3... and latexconf
[looks great, we all love it, blah blah blah] I have to agree with Larry on the "emacs-style" thing. Why not just say "version control for collaborative authoring". Anyone who knows what version control is doesn't need to be told it's emacs-style, while anyone who doesn't know has at least a *chance* of getting an idea of what it's for if you say the shorter version above. Their eyes will glaze over if they see emacs-style, IMO. Also, what makes it emacs-style? vim can do it too, e.g. -Amir
latexconf
The latexconf idea is great. Although it seems like LaTeX already has tons of parameters, there are clearly a bunch of lengths and texts which are hard-coded. However, it sounds to me like a major project, which only overlaps with LyX at the later (easier) parts. And we seem to have only a couple latex gurus in the core devvie group. Maybe some lurkers would volunteer to help? One example you might want to look at for ideas is natbib, which makes the \cite command much more expressive (using \citep et al). I wonder if there's other stuff going on among the comp.text.tex folks, or on CTAN, involving making LaTeX more configurable? We wouldn't want to repeat work that's been done, after all. -Amir
features.html
Enclosed please find features.html, slightly rewritten, for the LyX page. The main change I made was to call it LyX 1.0 of course. However, I made other changes which you may or may not like. Links: I removed Henner Zeller's page from the links, since we don't need patch-tracking any more. I changed David Johnson's link to LyX.html, which is IMO a better name for the page (LyriX should be deprecated). I changed the mailing list links to all point to mail-archive.com. Initial paragraphs: I had to reword these to reflect 1.0. Obviously we no longer want to say what we still need before 1.0 comes out. I'm still not *entirely* sure that these things belong here. Should they maybe be at the bottom of the page, or not here at all? But they don't look too bad where they are, as long as we keep them very short. Features: I moved around, retyped, and added/removed some features. Of course my editorial choices reflect my personal biases, but I think I added some important features. I think the only ones I took away were ones that would be obvious to latex folks and wouldn't sound very useful to non-latexers. (E.g. "floats". We already mentioned figures and tables...) Asger, if you like it, put it up! -Amir
Re: Translation of Lyx to portuguese
On Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 06:27:29PM -0200, Pedro Kroger wrote: Hi, Hi! My name is Pedro Kroger and I beginning a translation of the Lyx to portuguese (the menus comands and key binds). I hope to finish this to be included in the next release of this great text processor. We're always happy to get new translations... Usually, they'll be checked into the CVS tree as soon as they're sent in. Since 1.0 is scheduled to be released tomorrow, I doubt you'll get it in before then, but 1.0.1 will probably arrive not *too* long after that. And I have a ideia to a new feature. The management of figures in Lyx is very, very, good. The only thing that I expect is to mantain the aspect of the figure when change it's size. For example, if change the figure's width to 3 inches, the height colun is automatically recalculated to express the new size; preserving the original width/height relationship. Actually, if you read the User's Guide chapter on figures, you'll see that if you only select height and leave width to be "default" (or only select the width and let height be "default"), then the width/height ratio is automatically maintained. -Amir Karger
Re: mailinglists on webpage
I definitely hope (at least some of) those changes will be made.
What are we going to do about the lyx-users list? Hm. I went to
mail-archive.com and noticed that the latest message to lyx-users, with
subject "Titlepage Etc." is one I never received. Am I supposed to be
subscribed to more mailing lists than I'm currently subscribed to? I did get
Jean-Marc's and Ruben Thomas' recent mails to that list...
Whatever the eventual policy is for mailing *to* the list, mailing.html can
at least mention that all three lists are archived at
www.mail-archive.com/lyx{|-users|-devel}
-Ak
Re: PR-1.0.3... and latexconf
[looks great, we all love it, blah blah blah] I have to agree with Larry on the "emacs-style" thing. Why not just say "version control for collaborative authoring". Anyone who knows what version control is doesn't need to be told it's emacs-style, while anyone who doesn't know has at least a *chance* of getting an idea of what it's for if you say the shorter version above. Their eyes will glaze over if they see emacs-style, IMO. Also, what makes it emacs-style? vim can do it too, e.g. -Amir
latexconf
The latexconf idea is great. Although it seems like LaTeX already has tons of parameters, there are clearly a bunch of lengths and texts which are hard-coded. However, it sounds to me like a major project, which only overlaps with LyX at the later (easier) parts. And we seem to have only a couple latex gurus in the core devvie group. Maybe some lurkers would volunteer to help? One example you might want to look at for ideas is natbib, which makes the \cite command much more expressive (using \citep et al). I wonder if there's other stuff going on among the comp.text.tex folks, or on CTAN, involving making LaTeX more configurable? We wouldn't want to repeat work that's been done, after all. -Amir
features.html
Enclosed please find features.html, slightly rewritten, for the LyX page. The main change I made was to call it LyX 1.0 of course. However, I made other changes which you may or may not like. Links: I removed Henner Zeller's page from the links, since we don't need patch-tracking any more. I changed David Johnson's link to LyX.html, which is IMO a better name for the page (LyriX should be deprecated). I changed the mailing list links to all point to mail-archive.com. Initial paragraphs: I had to reword these to reflect 1.0. Obviously we no longer want to say what we still need before 1.0 comes out. I'm still not *entirely* sure that these things belong here. Should they maybe be at the bottom of the page, or not here at all? But they don't look too bad where they are, as long as we keep them very short. Features: I moved around, retyped, and added/removed some features. Of course my editorial choices reflect my personal biases, but I think I added some important features. I think the only ones I took away were ones that would be obvious to latex folks and wouldn't sound very useful to non-latexers. (E.g. "floats". We already mentioned figures and tables...) Asger, if you like it, put it up! -Amir
Re: Translation of Lyx to portuguese
On Sat, Jan 30, 1999 at 06:27:29PM -0200, Pedro Kroger wrote: > Hi, Hi! > > My name is Pedro Kroger and I beginning a translation of the Lyx to > portuguese (the menus comands and key binds). I hope to finish this to be > included in the next release of this great text processor. We're always happy to get new translations... Usually, they'll be checked into the CVS tree as soon as they're sent in. Since 1.0 is scheduled to be released tomorrow, I doubt you'll get it in before then, but 1.0.1 will probably arrive not *too* long after that. > And I have a ideia to a new feature. The management of figures in Lyx is > very, very, good. The only thing that I expect is to mantain the aspect of > the figure when change it's size. For example, if change the figure's width > to 3 inches, the height colun is automatically recalculated to express the > new size; preserving the original width/height relationship. Actually, if you read the User's Guide chapter on figures, you'll see that if you only select height and leave width to be "default" (or only select the width and let height be "default"), then the width/height ratio is automatically maintained. -Amir Karger
Re: mailinglists on webpage
I definitely hope (at least some of) those changes will be made.
What are we going to do about the lyx-users list? Hm. I went to
mail-archive.com and noticed that the latest message to lyx-users, with
subject "Titlepage Etc." is one I never received. Am I supposed to be
subscribed to more mailing lists than I'm currently subscribed to? I did get
Jean-Marc's and Ruben Thomas' recent mails to that list...
Whatever the eventual policy is for mailing *to* the list, mailing.html can
at least mention that all three lists are archived at
www.mail-archive.com/lyx{|-users|-devel}
-Ak
Re: reLyX.lyx location
On Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 05:53:25AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've been looking over reLyX.lyx, trying to decide how to fit it into the main docs. John W suggested putting it in the UG. I think it's really a bit too big for that and doesn't really fit with the style of the rest of the UG. I would propose adding a summary of reLyX.lyx to the UG, concentrating on the File-Import aspect of it, with a reference to the main reLyX man page. Frankly, I would include reLyX.lyx as the original man page reLyX.1, since it is really describing a separate program. (Sorry, Amir, I know you are proud of that translation.) Thoughts? I would be offended, but it's friday. I agree that the style is totally different. I sort of feel like the syntax file stuff, as well as the descriptions of what reLyX can and cannot translate, belong in the UG. Even if you're just using File-Import, the syntax files can be useful, and of course it's nice to know what reLyX supports. Especially once Asger adds the new fancy popup for applying all of the reLyX options, the hope is that you would very rarely need to use it as a separate program. OTOH, there are reasons to leave it as a manpage. One significant one is that reLyX will be changing (hopefully) more often than lyx. If we keep the docs for reLyX with reLyX, then every time I (excuse me; I and the hordes of other reLyX coders) add features, I can put them in the man page and check it in. However, if I add a feature and have to put it in the lyxdocs, then checking in won't help, because most people won't bother checking out the lyxdocs all the time, even if they do check out the new reLyX. I think this reason may be significant enough to tip the scales to the side of leaving things like they are, with perhaps a bit me documentation in UG. Of course, when we (I mean asger) adds the popup, we'll need to put in more docs, and then we'll have to keep updating both sets... but hopefully we'll be able to find a relatively stable subset of reLyX to document in UG. I don't think the options will be changing much, although new ones may be added of course. Mike, could you s/call/called/ in the reLyX section of UG? I'll try to add a bit more, mentioning syntax files and the like today if I remember. -Amir
Re: Appendix (was: Doc updates)
On Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 06:19:19PM +0100, Fred Hucht wrote:
As LaTeX2e also supports \{front|main|back}matter, which are switching
command similar to \appendix, my (second) proposal would be to add the
menu
Layout-Character...
Paragraph...
Sectioning (or so)
Document...
Sectioning could either be a submenu containing
-Start of Appendix
Start of Frontmatter
Start of Mainmatter
Start of Backmatter
or, even better, a dialog box, where one also could do things like
change the header/footer with markboth{}, reset the page counter, and
so on, i.e. all things that are between the paragraph and document
level.
After all, Word's got it. Word may be icky, but in this case, that might be
a logical idea. We'd just have to be careful to keep all of the section
changes WYSIWYM, not WYSIWYG.
-Ak
Re: reLyX.lyx location
On Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 05:53:25AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi, > > I've been looking over reLyX.lyx, trying to decide how to fit it into the > main docs. John W suggested putting it in the UG. I think it's really a > bit too big for that and doesn't really fit with the style of the rest of > the UG. I would propose adding a summary of reLyX.lyx to the UG, > concentrating on the File->Import aspect of it, with a reference to the > main reLyX man page. Frankly, I would include reLyX.lyx as the original > man page reLyX.1, since it is really describing a separate program. > (Sorry, Amir, I know you are proud of that translation.) Thoughts? I would be offended, but it's friday. I agree that the style is totally different. I sort of feel like the syntax file stuff, as well as the descriptions of what reLyX can and cannot translate, belong in the UG. Even if you're just using File->Import, the syntax files can be useful, and of course it's nice to know what reLyX supports. Especially once Asger adds the new fancy popup for applying all of the reLyX options, the hope is that you would very rarely need to use it as a separate program. OTOH, there are reasons to leave it as a manpage. One significant one is that reLyX will be changing (hopefully) more often than lyx. If we keep the docs for reLyX with reLyX, then every time I (excuse me; I and the hordes of other reLyX coders) add features, I can put them in the man page and check it in. However, if I add a feature and have to put it in the lyxdocs, then checking in won't help, because most people won't bother checking out the lyxdocs all the time, even if they do check out the new reLyX. I think this reason may be significant enough to tip the scales to the side of leaving things like they are, with perhaps a bit me documentation in UG. Of course, when we (I mean asger) adds the popup, we'll need to put in more docs, and then we'll have to keep updating both sets... but hopefully we'll be able to find a relatively stable subset of reLyX to document in UG. I don't think the options will be changing much, although new ones may be added of course. Mike, could you s/call/called/ in the reLyX section of UG? I'll try to add a bit more, mentioning syntax files and the like today if I remember. -Amir
Re: Appendix (was: Doc updates)
On Fri, Jan 29, 1999 at 06:19:19PM +0100, Fred Hucht wrote:
>
> As LaTeX2e also supports \{front|main|back}matter, which are switching
> command similar to \appendix, my (second) proposal would be to add the
> menu
>
> Layout->Character...
> Paragraph...
> Sectioning (or so)
> Document...
>
> Sectioning could either be a submenu containing
> ->Start of Appendix
> Start of Frontmatter
> Start of Mainmatter
> Start of Backmatter
>
> or, even better, a dialog box, where one also could do things like
> change the header/footer with markboth{}, reset the page counter, and
> so on, i.e. all things that are between the paragraph and document
> level.
>
After all, Word's got it. Word may be icky, but in this case, that might be
a logical idea. We'd just have to be careful to keep all of the section
changes WYSIWYM, not WYSIWYG.
-Ak
oops!
forgot the file!
#This file was created by karger Tue Jan 26 17:48:36 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1998 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass revtex
\options aps,manuscript
\layout Title
Insert your Title Here
\layout Author
Author1
\begin_float footnote
\layout Standard
Author to whom correspondence should be addressed
\end_float
and Author2
\layout Address
Insert the name of your university, company, or institute here.
\layout Standard
\begin_inset Info You don't have to write \maketitle.. LyX does this by itself.
\end_inset
\layout Abstract
Insert your abstract here.
\layout Section
Introduction
\layout Standard
Introduction goes here.
\layout Standard
By the way, any of the style options, like
\family typewriter
prl
\family default
or
\family typewriter
preprint
\family default
should go in the
\family sans
Extra
\protected_separator
Options
\family default
field in the
\family sans
Document
\protected_separator
Layout
\family default
popup (accessed from the
\family sans
Layout
\family default
menu).
\layout Section
Insert section title here
\layout Standard
Section 2 text goes here.
\layout Standard
Special REVTeX 3.1 macros must be typed in TeX mode, so typing
\family typewriter
\backslash
openone
\family default
in TeX mode yields
\latex latex
\backslash
openone{}
\latex default
.
(See the REVTeX manual for other macros.) REVTeX macros can also be used
freely in the math editor, so you can type
\begin_inset Formula \( \sqrt{\overstar {a}}\overcirc {b} \)
\end_inset
.
\layout Standard
You can do a bibliography by hand, as shown below, or erase that, and use
BibTeX.
If you use BibTeX, don't forget to use a REVTeX bibliography style file,
such as
\family typewriter
prsty.bst
\family default
.
With either method, you can cite references with the LyX citation commands
\begin_inset LatexCommand \cite{mycitation}
\end_inset
.
\begin_inset Info If you get question marks instead of numbers in your references,
re-run LaTeX (File-update dvi)
\end_inset
\layout Bibliography
\bibitem {mycitation}
Author,
\begin_inset Quotes eld
\end_inset
Title
\begin_inset Quotes erd
\end_inset
, Journal
\series bold
Volume
\series default
, page--numbers (year).
\the_end
Re: Comments on latest LyX-PR
On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 12:32:38PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:24:06PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: LyX runs on standard Unix platforms, including Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD and most proprietary Unix systems. Having taken another look, the above might better read: Lyx runs on the free, open source Unix platforms Linux, FreeBSD and NetBSD, and on most proprietary Unix systems. I'll just reregister my opinion that while open source is a great thing, it's not what we're selling here. We've mentioned that LyX (and latex) are open source. Linux et al. are doing just fine in the press and don't need our PR help. "LyX runs on Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and most proprietary UNIX systems." Or even, "LyX runs on most UNIX platforms." (Is it really "most"? Do we know of a UNIX platform it *doesn't* run on? -Amir
oops!
forgot the file!
#This file was created by Tue Jan 26 17:48:36 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1998 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass revtex
\options aps,manuscript
\layout Title
Insert your Title Here
\layout Author
Author1
\begin_float footnote
\layout Standard
Author to whom correspondence should be addressed
\end_float
and Author2
\layout Address
Insert the name of your university, company, or institute here.
\layout Standard
\begin_inset Info You don't have to write \maketitle.. LyX does this by itself.
\end_inset
\layout Abstract
Insert your abstract here.
\layout Section
Introduction
\layout Standard
Introduction goes here.
\layout Standard
By the way, any of the style options, like
\family typewriter
prl
\family default
or
\family typewriter
preprint
\family default
should go in the
\family sans
Extra
\protected_separator
Options
\family default
field in the
\family sans
Document
\protected_separator
Layout
\family default
popup (accessed from the
\family sans
Layout
\family default
menu).
\layout Section
Insert section title here
\layout Standard
Section 2 text goes here.
\layout Standard
Special REVTeX 3.1 macros must be typed in TeX mode, so typing
\family typewriter
\backslash
openone
\family default
in TeX mode yields
\latex latex
\backslash
openone{}
\latex default
.
(See the REVTeX manual for other macros.) REVTeX macros can also be used
freely in the math editor, so you can type
\begin_inset Formula \( \sqrt{\overstar {a}}>\overcirc {b} \)
\end_inset
.
\layout Standard
You can do a bibliography by hand, as shown below, or erase that, and use
BibTeX.
If you use BibTeX, don't forget to use a REVTeX bibliography style file,
such as
\family typewriter
prsty.bst
\family default
.
With either method, you can cite references with the LyX citation commands
\begin_inset LatexCommand \cite{mycitation}
\end_inset
.
\begin_inset Info If you get question marks instead of numbers in your references,
re-run LaTeX (File->update dvi)
\end_inset
\layout Bibliography
\bibitem {mycitation}
Author,
\begin_inset Quotes eld
\end_inset
Title
\begin_inset Quotes erd
\end_inset
, Journal
\series bold
Volume
\series default
, page--numbers (year).
\the_end
Re: Comments on latest LyX-PR
On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 12:32:38PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: > On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 01:24:06PM -0500, Larry S. Marso wrote: > > > LyX runs on standard Unix platforms, including Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD > > and most proprietary Unix systems. > > Having taken another look, the above might better read: > > Lyx runs on the free, open source Unix platforms Linux, FreeBSD and > NetBSD, and on most proprietary Unix systems. I'll just reregister my opinion that while open source is a great thing, it's not what we're selling here. We've mentioned that LyX (and latex) are open source. Linux et al. are doing just fine in the press and don't need our PR help. "LyX runs on Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and most proprietary UNIX systems." Or even, "LyX runs on most UNIX platforms." (Is it really "most"? Do we know of a UNIX platform it *doesn't* run on? -Amir
revtex.lyx
I'm enclosing a new version of templatex/revtex.lyx. Comments welcome. If
noone comments, I'll just check it in in a couple of days. (ooh! a threat!)
Unfortunately, it looks like revtex 4, which was due to come out in july
'98, won't be here in time for lyx 1.0.
-Amir
#This file was created by karger Tue Jan 26 17:48:36 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1998 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass revtex
\options aps,manuscript
\language default
\inputencoding default
\fontscheme default
\graphics dvips
\paperfontsize default
\spacing single
\papersize a4paper
\paperpackage a4
\use_geometry 0
\use_amsmath 0
\paperorientation portrait
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation skip
\defskip medskip
\quotes_language english
\quotes_times 2
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle plain
\layout Title
Insert your Title Here
\layout Author
Author1
\begin_float footnote
\layout Standard
Author to whom correspondence should be addressed
\end_float
and Author2
\layout Address
Insert the name of your university, company, or institute here.
\layout Standard
\begin_inset Info You don't have to write \maketitle.. LyX does this by itself.
\end_inset
\layout Abstract
Insert your abstract here.
\layout Section
Introduction
\layout Standard
Introduction goes here.
\layout Standard
By the way, any of the style options, like
\family typewriter
prl
\family default
or
\family typewriter
preprint
\family default
should go in the
\family sans
Extra
\protected_separator
Options
\family default
field in the
\family sans
Document
\protected_separator
Layout
\family default
popup (accessed from the
\family sans
Layout
\family default
menu).
\layout Section
Insert section title here
\layout Standard
Section 2 text goes here.
\layout Standard
Special REVTeX 3.1 macros must be typed in TeX mode, so typing
\family typewriter
\backslash
openone
\family default
in TeX mode yields
\latex latex
\backslash
openone{}
\latex default
.
(See the REVTeX manual for other macros.) REVTeX macros can also be used
freely in the math editor, so you can type
\begin_inset Formula \( \sqrt{\overstar {a}}\overcirc {b} \)
\end_inset
.
\layout Standard
You can do a bibliography by hand, as shown below, or erase that, and use
BibTeX.
If you use BibTeX, don't forget to use a REVTeX bibliography style file,
such as
\family typewriter
prsty.bst
\family default
.
With either method, you can cite references with the LyX citation commands
\begin_inset LatexCommand \cite{mycitation}
\end_inset
.
\begin_inset Info If you get question marks instead of numbers in your references,
re-run LaTeX (File-update dvi)
\end_inset
\layout Bibliography
\bibitem {mycitation}
Author,
\begin_inset Quotes eld
\end_inset
Title
\begin_inset Quotes erd
\end_inset
, Journal
\series bold
Volume
\series default
, page--numbers (year).
\the_end
revtex.lyx
I'm enclosing a new version of templatex/revtex.lyx. Comments welcome. If
noone comments, I'll just check it in in a couple of days. (ooh! a threat!)
Unfortunately, it looks like revtex 4, which was due to come out in july
'98, won't be here in time for lyx 1.0.
-Amir
#This file was created by Tue Jan 26 17:48:36 1999
#LyX 1.0 (C) 1995-1998 Matthias Ettrich and the LyX Team
\lyxformat 2.15
\textclass revtex
\options aps,manuscript
\language default
\inputencoding default
\fontscheme default
\graphics dvips
\paperfontsize default
\spacing single
\papersize a4paper
\paperpackage a4
\use_geometry 0
\use_amsmath 0
\paperorientation portrait
\secnumdepth 3
\tocdepth 3
\paragraph_separation skip
\defskip medskip
\quotes_language english
\quotes_times 2
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 1
\paperpagestyle plain
\layout Title
Insert your Title Here
\layout Author
Author1
\begin_float footnote
\layout Standard
Author to whom correspondence should be addressed
\end_float
and Author2
\layout Address
Insert the name of your university, company, or institute here.
\layout Standard
\begin_inset Info You don't have to write \maketitle.. LyX does this by itself.
\end_inset
\layout Abstract
Insert your abstract here.
\layout Section
Introduction
\layout Standard
Introduction goes here.
\layout Standard
By the way, any of the style options, like
\family typewriter
prl
\family default
or
\family typewriter
preprint
\family default
should go in the
\family sans
Extra
\protected_separator
Options
\family default
field in the
\family sans
Document
\protected_separator
Layout
\family default
popup (accessed from the
\family sans
Layout
\family default
menu).
\layout Section
Insert section title here
\layout Standard
Section 2 text goes here.
\layout Standard
Special REVTeX 3.1 macros must be typed in TeX mode, so typing
\family typewriter
\backslash
openone
\family default
in TeX mode yields
\latex latex
\backslash
openone{}
\latex default
.
(See the REVTeX manual for other macros.) REVTeX macros can also be used
freely in the math editor, so you can type
\begin_inset Formula \( \sqrt{\overstar {a}}>\overcirc {b} \)
\end_inset
.
\layout Standard
You can do a bibliography by hand, as shown below, or erase that, and use
BibTeX.
If you use BibTeX, don't forget to use a REVTeX bibliography style file,
such as
\family typewriter
prsty.bst
\family default
.
With either method, you can cite references with the LyX citation commands
\begin_inset LatexCommand \cite{mycitation}
\end_inset
.
\begin_inset Info If you get question marks instead of numbers in your references,
re-run LaTeX (File->update dvi)
\end_inset
\layout Bibliography
\bibitem {mycitation}
Author,
\begin_inset Quotes eld
\end_inset
Title
\begin_inset Quotes erd
\end_inset
, Journal
\series bold
Volume
\series default
, page--numbers (year).
\the_end
Re: reLyXdoc (oops)
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 07:10:49PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Amir" == Amir Karger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amir Forgot to attach this! -Amir So, what shall we do wih it? Setting apart the amazing technical feat, Next I'm going to write a perl script to make lyx documents turn cartwheels... what is the feeling of doc people about whether this should go in docs? Can we assume that the deafening lack of response implies that people either agree it should go in or don't care? I didn't really think most people would have a very strong opinion on this. Basically, it adds a few K to the distribution and most people will never look at it. The only reason I could think of that someone wouldn't want to put it in is that having too many manuals in the help menu could be confusing. But it seems to me that if it's called "Importing LaTeX Documents", it won't really increase confusion any. Again, if we do add this doc, we'll have to mention it in the intro as well as the UG and tutorial. Is Mike unreachable in Hawaii? -Amir
FAQ
On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:54:34PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Th real problem is the we need badly a FAQ and a maintainer which has some time to spare. Or we can maybe set up a FAQ-o-matic at the web page, so that everybody can submit entries. The real problem is that we need a FAQ policy. José Matos spent lots of time working on a FAQ, which was ignored. I believe someone suggested that there was going to be a FAQ-o-matic in its place. Currently, we have neither. (And at the very least, if a FAQ-o-matic is created, José's stuff could start it off.) I would have given its old URL, but it (and José's home page) seem to have disappeared. -Amir
Re: reLyXdoc (oops)
On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:59:31PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Amir" == Amir Karger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amir #1 is *way* easier, so why don't we do that now. There are other Amir things that we need to do this week (I was hoping I could send Amir in a reLyX with a semi-large bugfix, fix the revtex Amir template... and I'm sure others have things to do too) Personally, I probably will not have time this week to do thing which require a brain. I will probably manage to commit Jose's patch for man support (did you have a look at the file, Amir?), but not much more. So don't count on me for that. OK. In that case... HELP! I don't know how to add things to menus and I don't have lyxdoc access (or maybe I do?) Can a devvie help me out with this? Oh, and I will probably not be able to refrain from sending random nonsensical e-mails to the list. I thought you had an AI that did that even if you didn't come in to the office. -Amir
copyright
Whatever you do with the license, LyX should probably output "(C) 1995-1999". It's currently writing 1998. What if someone takes the code and says we lost the copyright?! OK, it won't happen, but still. I would do the patch myself, but I'm too scared to touch anything with a .C suffix (and now that I can sleep, I might get nightmares). -Amir
Re: reLyXdoc (oops)
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 07:10:49PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >>>>> "Amir" == Amir Karger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Amir> Forgot to attach this! -Amir > > So, what shall we do wih it? Setting apart the amazing technical feat, Next I'm going to write a perl script to make lyx documents turn cartwheels... > what is the feeling of doc people about whether this should go in > docs? Can we assume that the deafening lack of response implies that people either agree it should go in or don't care? I didn't really think most people would have a very strong opinion on this. Basically, it adds a few K to the distribution and most people will never look at it. The only reason I could think of that someone wouldn't want to put it in is that having too many manuals in the help menu could be confusing. But it seems to me that if it's called "Importing LaTeX Documents", it won't really increase confusion any. Again, if we do add this doc, we'll have to mention it in the intro as well as the UG and tutorial. Is Mike unreachable in Hawaii? -Amir
FAQ
On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:54:34PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > Th real problem is the we need badly a FAQ and a maintainer which has > some time to spare. Or we can maybe set up a FAQ-o-matic at the web > page, so that everybody can submit entries. > The real problem is that we need a FAQ policy. José Matos spent lots of time working on a FAQ, which was ignored. I believe someone suggested that there was going to be a FAQ-o-matic in its place. Currently, we have neither. (And at the very least, if a FAQ-o-matic is created, José's stuff could start it off.) I would have given its old URL, but it (and José's home page) seem to have disappeared. -Amir
Re: reLyXdoc (oops)
On Mon, Jan 25, 1999 at 06:59:31PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >>>>> "Amir" == Amir Karger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Amir> #1 is *way* easier, so why don't we do that now. There are other > Amir> things that we need to do this week (I was hoping I could send > Amir> in a reLyX with a semi-large bugfix, fix the revtex > Amir> template... and I'm sure others have things to do too) > > Personally, I probably will not have time this week to do thing which > require a brain. I will probably manage to commit Jose's patch for man > support (did you have a look at the file, Amir?), but not much > more. So don't count on me for that. OK. In that case... HELP! I don't know how to add things to menus and I don't have lyxdoc access (or maybe I do?) Can a devvie help me out with this? > Oh, and I will probably not be able to refrain from sending random > nonsensical e-mails to the list. I thought you had an AI that did that even if you didn't come in to the office. -Amir
copyright
Whatever you do with the license, LyX should probably output "(C) 1995-1999". It's currently writing 1998. What if someone takes the code and says we lost the copyright?! OK, it won't happen, but still. I would do the patch myself, but I'm too scared to touch anything with a .C suffix (and now that I can sleep, I might get nightmares). -Amir
Re: pre8 configure wont succeed on IRIX-5.3
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 06:11:09PM -0600, Roland Krause wrote: Trying to build lyx-1.0.0-pre8 on my IRIX-5.3... When running configure it stops with pocus ./configure --with-extra-includes=/usr/local/include --with-extra-lib=/usr/local/lib ...chugging away for a while ** Can't find libXpm. Please check that the Xpm library is correctly installed on your system. of course libXpm is installed pocus ls -l /usr/local/lib/libXpm.a -rw-rw-r--1 rokrau admin 101396 Sep 14 14:26 /usr/local/lib/libXpm.a The version is: pocus: ls -l /usr/local/src/*xpm* -r--rw-r--1 rokrau admin 475621 Apr 16 1998 /usr/local/src/xpm-3.4k-irix.tgz I'm not sure what version I've got, but I think it's 3.4g or so. I haven't bothered keeping it up to date. Anyway, it works just fine on IRIX 6.2, so I don't think it's an IRIX issue. Which is to say, it may be an IRIX issue, but it's probably that 3.4k doesn't work, not that libXpm is screwed up in general on IRIX. -Amir
Re: WYSIWYM printing
On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 08:53:15AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Reuben" == Reuben Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Reuben As well as (or perhaps instead of) specifying page ranges, it Reuben should be possible to give section ranges. This would indeed be a nice thing, and could be controled completely from inside LyX. But I think there should be some kind of interface aroud that, and it will take time to gt right (i.e. intuitive). This is a great idea, and much more WYSIWYM, as Reuben suggested in the subject line. I'm imagining a table of contents popup, where you could highlight the (contiguous?) sections you want to print. As long as we're doing that, why not take it a step further. Using the TOC or some other method, allow the user to select portions of the document and do various operations. Spellcheck, Save as, Export (harder. Bug prone?) are just a few ideas. -Amir
Re: New PR interim as attachment
Larry, you've made some very good points. Most of the folks on the devel list have been using LyX for a long time, and it's hard for us to look at it from the perspective of new users, especially ones who don't even know LaTeX. That said, I think it's too late to stop 1.0. The LyXers have been saying for a long time that all LyX really needed was decent LaTeX import and it could be released as 1.0. Thanks to the work of a few brilliant programmers (it's friday!) we've now got LaTeX import which I'll daringly call decent. (Certainly compared to my few attempts to import things into Word. At least here everything stays in ASCII!) Given the number of people that I've personally heard say "I would use it if it were 1.0", and recognizing that I have that attitude myself, I think releasing as 1.0 is important right now. Especially since folks have suffered through the pain of a feature freeze and prereleasing for so long. I agree that the somewhat limited textclass selection (at least compared to what can be done) and example/template selection will make LyX 1.0 frustrating to use for some users. (But any college student who wants to write letters and class papers shouldn't have much trouble.) Perhaps we need to retarget 1.0. 1.0 may not take over the world. As you said, we still can't hide ERT. 1.0 should maybe still focus on people who have used LaTeX (e.g. the scientific societies that have LaTeX classes), and Linux users, and other people who are comfortable with actually having to learn a bit about a program. The truth is that while I think 1.0 is great, and all the devvies deserve praise for it, there's just no way it would get into mainstream press, and it *shouldn't* yet, because the mainstream press would all say it's way too hard and noone would try it. Remember, they're just starting to get used to Linux. ERT would drive them crazy. Here's what I would suggest. Release 1.0 now. Then, concurrent with the 1.1 development, begin the "formal effort" you describe of adding many new examples/templates and textclasses, as well as providing up to date docs for it all. Asger brilliantly points out that the folks on the devel list are too polite to fill others' inboxes with "me too" messages. While most of the devvies are (I think) programming in large part because it's fun and an interesting and challenging project, all of us are excited to see the LyX user base growing. And all of us recognize that the user base will grow if we make it easy for new users to join in. It's just that most of us don't have the time to organize that. Which leads to the next problem. Asger suggested uploading your example files, but---while a noble idea---that probably won't lead to everyone else uploading their example files. You may remember (or find in the archive) an extremely brief thread I started called something like "Example files contest" where I suggested that a contest might be a way to get people to send in files. The prize, of course, is that your file gets distributed worldwide. OK, it was a stupid idea. But the point is, the textclass/example effort will go nowhere without a leader. And of course, you're the logical leader, Larry. (1) You care a lot about it. (2) You're not (AFAIK) a code demon. (3) You speak/write English well, which is essential for non-code stuff. (4) Layout file syntax is simple and the texperts on the list will help you with cls stuff. And most importantly (5) you're the one who brought up the problem. Without active leadership, net projects die quickly. Remember the doc project? Other than Mike, who (including me!) has written any docs lately? And yet I could've sworn the idea was to have the docs set up perfectly for v1.0. So. I hope you'll take this historic opportunity (sorry: state of the union address on the brain) to start a textclass/example project. I think there's a lot of good things that would come out of doing this project concurrently with 1.1 development. In addition to being the cleaner kernel version, 1.2 could be the World Domination version. (1) ERT will be hidden in 1.2. Easier to make templates (2) Toolkit independence means we can interface with KDE (and gnome?), which means LyX can be just another application you double click on from your Mac-like desktop. (3) Working concurrently with 1.1 means that devvies who *can't* really contribute much to the T/E effort have something to do, instead of shutting the whole project down. (4) Working concurrently with 1.1 means that you may be able to make specific feature suggestions which can be integrated during the earlier stages of development (e.g., now). Specifically, feature suggestions that will make things easier for new users. Either LyX functions, or new Layout tags, or whatever. The WD release, then, would be the one where we'd pull out all the stops in the PR campaign. Where we would do our best to get even non-Linux media to review LyX or publish the press release. And *that* press release can focus a
Re: New PR interim as attachment
On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 11:32:05AM +0200, Martin Vermeer wrote: "Martin" == Martin Vermeer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyway, I am rather lost now. So how to continue? 1. Which text to use as basis for further work. Mine, or Larry's? Yours. Larry's can go into an article and/or the World Domination release (see my previous email) That said, I really like his Section description, if there's any way you could include that. I think it's even better than the spaces thing, because when I read the spaces thing, I get an impression of LyX *not letting you* do things. Even if that's true, I think people who have no idea what LyX is will feel that they're being forced to do it. So at the least I would change the language. While LyX presents the user with the familiar face of a WYSIWYG word processor, new users may be taken aback when LyX refuses to do certain things, like entering two successive blanks or inserting an empty line. LyX doesn't because it knows YOU shouldn't. Why not just something like: In LyX, you don't type two spaces after a sentence or an empty line after a section heading; LyX puts extra spacing in by itself Or at least replace the last sentence with "You don't *have* to put in those spaces, because LyX does it for you." (Makes LyX sound friendly and helpful, instead of domineering.) Or just put in Larry's Section description (see also John's section description in chapter one of the tutorial.) The rest of the paragraph is nice, though. 2. Document processor. Yes/no? I see both sides here. I kind of feel like if you are going to use the word, you ought to say "We call it a *document* processor because it looks at the whole document, not just a series of *words*." Except that you can think of a better way to say that. And I don't know which paragraph you'd put that in. Maybe in the WYSIWYM paragraph, tho that's already long. 3. Mention Linux and Open Source. (LyX AND LaTeX) Yes. (But remember, LyX is not ONLY for Linux). As I said in my last e-mail, I don't think we even want to be in the mainstream press right now. Give LyX some time to grow. And I think open source is becoming a bit over-hyped too. Yes, definitely say open source at least once, but don't try to make it the (or even a) main selling point. The main selling point should be that LyX is a good program. 4. Comparison with Word and WP -- hesitant. Alejandro's got a good point. If you want to write a whole article which compares many of their features, fine. I don't think the press release needs it. 5. "No familiarity" disclaimer. OK. How then? I think the problem is just with the language "unless you want to do advanced things" which implies that otherwise you can only do really simple things. Why not just: Using LyX requires no familiarity with LaTeX. However, if you're a LaTeX user, know that LyX offers full LaTeX transparency, can support almost any LaTeX documentclass or package [which is true as long as you're in TeX mode the whole time], and will import and export well-formed LaTeX documents. This (short) paragraph then does two things: reassures the LaTeX-ignorant that they're safe; and tells the LaTeX-aware that they don't have to feel all their latex knowledge is wasted. 6. HELP! "Be careful what you wish for" (Into the Woods) Finally some more minor points. - I would get rid of the second sentence. You say the same thing in the third sentence, and what's drudge? - It's great that you include movie scripts as an example, but don't include it twice (first and third paragraph). - I would get rid of the "freedom is based in law" sentence. A PR is no place for philosophy :) Anyway, I know you're arguing that we need to mention LyX's shortcomings, but I really don't like painting LyX as "restrict"ive. Again, we need to be honest, but I think certain things will turn people off so much they won't realize that restriction is good. Keep up the good work! -Amir
version control
I agree with JMarc. While nice, the version control is basic. It also doesn't work with older versions of RCS (unless Lars fixed it since pre4 or so.) -Amir
Re: pre8 configure wont succeed on IRIX-5.3
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 06:11:09PM -0600, Roland Krause wrote: > Trying to build lyx-1.0.0-pre8 on my IRIX-5.3... > When running configure it stops with > > pocus > ./configure --with-extra-includes=/usr/local/include > --with-extra-lib=/usr/local/lib > > ...chugging away for a while > > ** Can't find libXpm. Please check that the Xpm library >is correctly installed on your system. > > of course libXpm is installed > > pocus > ls -l /usr/local/lib/libXpm.a > -rw-rw-r--1 rokrau admin 101396 Sep 14 14:26 /usr/local/lib/libXpm.a > > The version is: > pocus: > ls -l /usr/local/src/*xpm* > -r--rw-r--1 rokrau admin 475621 Apr 16 1998 > /usr/local/src/xpm-3.4k-irix.tgz > I'm not sure what version I've got, but I think it's 3.4g or so. I haven't bothered keeping it up to date. Anyway, it works just fine on IRIX 6.2, so I don't think it's an IRIX issue. Which is to say, it may be an IRIX issue, but it's probably that 3.4k doesn't work, not that libXpm is screwed up in general on IRIX. -Amir
Re: WYSIWYM printing
On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 08:53:15AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > "Reuben" == Reuben Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Reuben> As well as (or perhaps instead of) specifying page ranges, it > Reuben> should be possible to give section ranges. > > This would indeed be a nice thing, and could be controled completely > from inside LyX. But I think there should be some kind of interface > aroud that, and it will take time to gt right (i.e. intuitive). This is a great idea, and much more WYSIWYM, as Reuben suggested in the subject line. I'm imagining a table of contents popup, where you could highlight the (contiguous?) sections you want to print. As long as we're doing that, why not take it a step further. Using the TOC or some other method, allow the user to select portions of the document and do various operations. Spellcheck, Save as, Export (harder. Bug prone?) are just a few ideas. -Amir
Re: New PR interim as attachment
Larry, you've made some very good points. Most of the folks on the devel list have been using LyX for a long time, and it's hard for us to look at it from the perspective of new users, especially ones who don't even know LaTeX. That said, I think it's too late to stop 1.0. The LyXers have been saying for a long time that all LyX really needed was decent LaTeX import and it could be released as 1.0. Thanks to the work of a few brilliant programmers (it's friday!) we've now got LaTeX import which I'll daringly call decent. (Certainly compared to my few attempts to import things into Word. At least here everything stays in ASCII!) Given the number of people that I've personally heard say "I would use it if it were 1.0", and recognizing that I have that attitude myself, I think releasing as 1.0 is important right now. Especially since folks have suffered through the pain of a feature freeze and prereleasing for so long. I agree that the somewhat limited textclass selection (at least compared to what can be done) and example/template selection will make LyX 1.0 frustrating to use for some users. (But any college student who wants to write letters and class papers shouldn't have much trouble.) Perhaps we need to retarget 1.0. 1.0 may not take over the world. As you said, we still can't hide ERT. 1.0 should maybe still focus on people who have used LaTeX (e.g. the scientific societies that have LaTeX classes), and Linux users, and other people who are comfortable with actually having to learn a bit about a program. The truth is that while I think 1.0 is great, and all the devvies deserve praise for it, there's just no way it would get into mainstream press, and it *shouldn't* yet, because the mainstream press would all say it's way too hard and noone would try it. Remember, they're just starting to get used to Linux. ERT would drive them crazy. Here's what I would suggest. Release 1.0 now. Then, concurrent with the 1.1 development, begin the "formal effort" you describe of adding many new examples/templates and textclasses, as well as providing up to date docs for it all. Asger brilliantly points out that the folks on the devel list are too polite to fill others' inboxes with "me too" messages. While most of the devvies are (I think) programming in large part because it's fun and an interesting and challenging project, all of us are excited to see the LyX user base growing. And all of us recognize that the user base will grow if we make it easy for new users to join in. It's just that most of us don't have the time to organize that. Which leads to the next problem. Asger suggested uploading your example files, but---while a noble idea---that probably won't lead to everyone else uploading their example files. You may remember (or find in the archive) an extremely brief thread I started called something like "Example files contest" where I suggested that a contest might be a way to get people to send in files. The prize, of course, is that your file gets distributed worldwide. OK, it was a stupid idea. But the point is, the textclass/example effort will go nowhere without a leader. And of course, you're the logical leader, Larry. (1) You care a lot about it. (2) You're not (AFAIK) a code demon. (3) You speak/write English well, which is essential for non-code stuff. (4) Layout file syntax is simple and the texperts on the list will help you with cls stuff. And most importantly (5) you're the one who brought up the problem. Without active leadership, net projects die quickly. Remember the doc project? Other than Mike, who (including me!) has written any docs lately? And yet I could've sworn the idea was to have the docs set up perfectly for v1.0. So. I hope you'll take this historic opportunity (sorry: state of the union address on the brain) to start a textclass/example project. I think there's a lot of good things that would come out of doing this project concurrently with 1.1 development. In addition to being the cleaner kernel version, 1.2 could be the World Domination version. (1) ERT will be hidden in 1.2. Easier to make templates (2) Toolkit independence means we can interface with KDE (and gnome?), which means LyX can be just another application you double click on from your Mac-like desktop. (3) Working concurrently with 1.1 means that devvies who *can't* really contribute much to the T/E effort have something to do, instead of shutting the whole project down. (4) Working concurrently with 1.1 means that you may be able to make specific feature suggestions which can be integrated during the earlier stages of development (e.g., now). Specifically, feature suggestions that will make things easier for new users. Either LyX functions, or new Layout tags, or whatever. The WD release, then, would be the one where we'd pull out all the stops in the PR campaign. Where we would do our best to get even non-Linux media to review LyX or publish the press release. And *that* press release can focus a
Re: New PR interim as attachment
On Fri, Jan 22, 1999 at 11:32:05AM +0200, Martin Vermeer wrote: > > > "Martin" == Martin Vermeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Anyway, I am rather lost now. So how to continue? > > 1. Which text to use as basis for further work. Mine, or Larry's? Yours. Larry's can go into an article and/or the World Domination release (see my previous email) That said, I really like his Section description, if there's any way you could include that. I think it's even better than the spaces thing, because when I read the spaces thing, I get an impression of LyX *not letting you* do things. Even if that's true, I think people who have no idea what LyX is will feel that they're being forced to do it. So at the least I would change the language. > While LyX presents the user with the familiar face of a WYSIWYG word > processor, new users may be taken aback when LyX refuses to do certain > things, like entering two successive blanks or inserting an empty line. > LyX doesn't because it knows YOU shouldn't. Why not just something like: In LyX, you don't type two spaces after a sentence or an empty line after a section heading; LyX puts extra spacing in by itself Or at least replace the last sentence with "You don't *have* to put in those spaces, because LyX does it for you." (Makes LyX sound friendly and helpful, instead of domineering.) Or just put in Larry's Section description (see also John's section description in chapter one of the tutorial.) The rest of the paragraph is nice, though. > 2. Document processor. Yes/no? I see both sides here. I kind of feel like if you are going to use the word, you ought to say "We call it a *document* processor because it looks at the whole document, not just a series of *words*." Except that you can think of a better way to say that. And I don't know which paragraph you'd put that in. Maybe in the WYSIWYM paragraph, tho that's already long. > 3. Mention Linux and Open Source. (LyX AND LaTeX) Yes. (But remember, > LyX is not ONLY for Linux). As I said in my last e-mail, I don't think we even want to be in the mainstream press right now. Give LyX some time to grow. And I think open source is becoming a bit over-hyped too. Yes, definitely say open source at least once, but don't try to make it the (or even a) main selling point. The main selling point should be that LyX is a good program. > 4. Comparison with Word and WP -- hesitant. Alejandro's got a good point. If you want to write a whole article which compares many of their features, fine. I don't think the press release needs it. > 5. "No familiarity" disclaimer. OK. How then? I think the problem is just with the language "unless you want to do advanced things" which implies that otherwise you can only do really simple things. Why not just: Using LyX requires no familiarity with LaTeX. However, if you're a LaTeX user, know that LyX offers full LaTeX transparency, can support almost any LaTeX documentclass or package [which is true as long as you're in TeX mode the whole time], and will import and export well-formed LaTeX documents. This (short) paragraph then does two things: reassures the LaTeX-ignorant that they're safe; and tells the LaTeX-aware that they don't have to feel all their latex knowledge is wasted. > 6. HELP! "Be careful what you wish for" (Into the Woods) Finally some more minor points. - I would get rid of the second sentence. You say the same thing in the third sentence, and what's drudge? - It's great that you include movie scripts as an example, but don't include it twice (first and third paragraph). - I would get rid of the "freedom is based in law" sentence. A PR is no place for philosophy :) Anyway, I know you're arguing that we need to mention LyX's shortcomings, but I really don't like painting LyX as "restrict"ive. Again, we need to be honest, but I think certain things will turn people off so much they won't realize that restriction is good. Keep up the good work! -Amir
version control
I agree with JMarc. While nice, the version control is basic. It also doesn't work with older versions of RCS (unless Lars fixed it since pre4 or so.) -Amir
it's its, not it's!
The error message in the recent windows port email is misspelled. s/it's/its/ For future reference (and this is a very popular error among Americans and non-): "it's" is an abbreviation for "it is". You use it like "It's a document processor, not a word processor!" Jean-Marc would say "c'est". "its" is a possessive pronoun, meaning something belongs to "it". Like "his". Used in "LyX can't find its layout descriptions!" Jean-Marc would say "ses". Or he might say "son", because otherwise it would sound just like "c'est", which sounds a lot like the English "say". Wow, french is confusing :) (Writing "toolkit independance" instead of independence is another one. We americans are big on independence :) Pardon my incessant complaining about misspellings. I might find my time better spend on coding or something. -Amir
Re: it's its, not it's!
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 04:21:05PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Amir" == Amir Karger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amir The error message in the recent windows port email is Amir misspelled. s/it's/its/ I think it was the last important bug that we had in LyX. Now that I commited a (hopefully correct) fix, we can release 1.0.0 and look for another project to work on. In fact, if the spelling is all correct, we do'nt really need more functionality, so we might as well give up on 1.1 as well. Otherwise writing the new code might lead to more spelling errors. Instead, we can transfer our energies to an open-source grammar checker. Amir "it's" is an abbreviation for "it is". You use it like "It's a Amir document processor, not a word processor!" Jean-Marc would say Amir "c'est". In english? Oh, you speak English, too? I didn't realize. Amir "its" is a possessive pronoun, meaning something belongs to Amir "it". Like "his". Used in "LyX can't find its layout Amir descriptions!" Jean-Marc would say "ses". Or he might say "son", Amir because otherwise it would sound just like "c'est", which sounds Amir a lot like the English "say". Wow, french is confusing :) I would not, because 'son' would sound just like a grammar error. Is son really incorrect grammar? I thought it's "son chat, sa vache, ses chiens". Of course, lyx-devel might not be exactly the right place for an introductory french grammar lesson. But it's not like there's any useful discussion going on here :) -Amir ps how come you didn't update lyx/src/textclasslist.C yet? How am I supposed to sleep tonight?
Re: writer
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 04:36:54PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Lars" == Lars Gullik Bjønnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lars Gains: - simplified code in insets - we ensure that all insets Lars can be output with all different writers - when adding new Lars insets, the compiler will barf unless you inplement the new Lars writer method in all derived classes. The risk is that people will implement empty methods just to compile and forget about it later... However, I agree that it will help maintenance. Sure, but if they don't write something, then the first person who tries to use that method will find out, won't they. And it will be extremely easy to pinpoint where the missing code is. Lars Well I don't know anymore, but it seemed like nice idea when I Lars was taking a shower. You should take showers more often ;) I should too. I tend to get my best programming ideas there. Jean-Marc has apparently decided that in e-mails to me, it's always friday... -Amir
Re: PR doc interim version on web site
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 11:46:01PM +0200, Martin Vermeer wrote:
Look here:
http://www.netby.net/Oest/Europa-Alle/vermeer/LyX-PR.txt
Includes the effect of many of your comments up to now, but especially
those of Roland Krause. They really helped to make things sharper.
(I even took some good ideas to their logical consequence :)
Thanks to all of you!
And keep the ideas coming.
It just keeps getting better (as they say).
Thoughts:
Alejandro had a good point about making the PR shorter.
Unfortunately, looking through the doc, I can't really suggest pieces that
you'd want to delete.
Alejandro also had a good point about getting rid of the v0.10
ANNOUNCE language. I think over the past few iterations, that has basically
been done.
Allan had a good point about wanting a separate press release as opposed to
an ANNOUNCE. It seems to me, though, that you could get an ok (shorter)
press release just by removing most of the bottom part of the document.
I.e., you wouldn't need "What's New", "What about KLyX", or "Where do I get it"
(the lyx.org link is enough to start with). Ah. I just went back and saw in
a previous mail that you only mean this as an ANNOUNCE, not something to go
to a "real" magazine, and that you're planning on writing that later.
When you do write the magazine thing, I'd definitely take some ideas from
Larry's submission. While "drop everything and use LyX" might be a little
informal or sound biased, I think he had some good descriptions of LyX's
major features. I guess this PR assumes that people will know what a word
processor includes, so you don't need to say that it has footnoting c, but
for a magazine article you'd of course need that. I'll stop saying things
everybody knows now :)
Questions/musings:
- Anybody doing the rpm? And where to post it? Refer to rufus?
*Someone* used to make rpm's. Was it Mate?
Oh yeah. You should also mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (the RevTeX contact). And ask
Peter SÜtterlin the address for the AAPaper folks. And you probably know the
Springer contact (ejour2) since you wrote the Extended doc for it.
Jean-Marc, didn't you do some IEEE stuff recently? Anyway, for any of these
mails, it would be a good idea to include a "cover letter" saying that LyX
works with their LaTeX documentclass. If we could get just one of these
large science groups to suggest LyX to their users, we'd get a whole bunch
of new users. And I've always felt that clueless professors would be much
happier using LyX than hacking LaTeX ("what's a text editor?"). I actually
talked to the RevTeX guy a while ago. He said he had tried LyX and sounded
interested in a new version...
A couple minor grammar and spelling things (it's that sort of day). All are
IMO and (as you'll see) pretty minor.
In the line "LyX enables authors to concentrate on content and structure of
their text", I would write "...on the content and structure..."
I would remove the exclamation point at the end of the second paragraph.
You wrote "also" twice in the "ergonomic" paragraph.
You seem to suffer a bit from em-dash disease. I've got it too---I find
myself using them all the time---but some readers find it very
distracting. For example, in the third paragraph you've got three of them.
I'd replace at least one with a colon or semicolon.
If we're assuming readers don't know LaTeX, then maybe you'd want to replace
"dvi or ghostview previews" with "page previews" or "print previews".
While I've come over to your side on the Microsoft paragraph, I still don't
really like the "price to pay" sentence. I don't know how much sense it
makes to people who aren't familiar with LyX, and it might imply that LyX is
more limited than we know it is.
I'm getting psyched for the release!
-Amir
it's its, not it's!
The error message in the recent windows port email is misspelled. s/it's/its/ For future reference (and this is a very popular error among Americans and non-): "it's" is an abbreviation for "it is". You use it like "It's a document processor, not a word processor!" Jean-Marc would say "c'est". "its" is a possessive pronoun, meaning something belongs to "it". Like "his". Used in "LyX can't find its layout descriptions!" Jean-Marc would say "ses". Or he might say "son", because otherwise it would sound just like "c'est", which sounds a lot like the English "say". Wow, french is confusing :) (Writing "toolkit independance" instead of independence is another one. We americans are big on independence :) Pardon my incessant complaining about misspellings. I might find my time better spend on coding or something. -Amir
Re: it's its, not it's!
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 04:21:05PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >>>>> "Amir" == Amir Karger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Amir> The error message in the recent windows port email is > Amir> misspelled. s/it's/its/ > > I think it was the last important bug that we had in LyX. Now that I > commited a (hopefully correct) fix, we can release 1.0.0 and look for > another project to work on. In fact, if the spelling is all correct, we do'nt really need more functionality, so we might as well give up on 1.1 as well. Otherwise writing the new code might lead to more spelling errors. Instead, we can transfer our energies to an open-source grammar checker. > Amir> "it's" is an abbreviation for "it is". You use it like "It's a > Amir> document processor, not a word processor!" Jean-Marc would say > Amir> "c'est". > > In english? Oh, you speak English, too? I didn't realize. > Amir> "its" is a possessive pronoun, meaning something belongs to > Amir> "it". Like "his". Used in "LyX can't find its layout > Amir> descriptions!" Jean-Marc would say "ses". Or he might say "son", > Amir> because otherwise it would sound just like "c'est", which sounds > Amir> a lot like the English "say". Wow, french is confusing :) > > I would not, because 'son' would sound just like a grammar error. Is son really incorrect grammar? I thought it's "son chat, sa vache, ses chiens". Of course, lyx-devel might not be exactly the right place for an introductory french grammar lesson. But it's not like there's any useful discussion going on here :) -Amir ps how come you didn't update lyx/src/textclasslist.C yet? How am I supposed to sleep tonight?
Re: writer
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 04:36:54PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > "Lars" == Lars Gullik Bjønnes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Lars> Gains: - simplified code in insets - we ensure that all insets > Lars> can be output with all different writers - when adding new > Lars> insets, the compiler will barf unless you inplement the new > Lars> writer method in all derived classes. > > The risk is that people will implement empty methods just to compile > and forget about it later... However, I agree that it will help > maintenance. Sure, but if they don't write something, then the first person who tries to use that method will find out, won't they. And it will be extremely easy to pinpoint where the missing code is. > Lars> Well I don't know anymore, but it seemed like nice idea when I > Lars> was taking a shower. > > You should take showers more often ;) > I should too. I tend to get my best programming ideas there. Jean-Marc has apparently decided that in e-mails to me, it's always friday... -Amir
Re: PR doc interim version on web site
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 11:46:01PM +0200, Martin Vermeer wrote:
> Look here:
>
> http://www.netby.net/Oest/Europa-Alle/vermeer/LyX-PR.txt
>
> Includes the effect of many of your comments up to now, but especially
> those of Roland Krause. They really helped to make things sharper.
> (I even took some good ideas to their logical consequence :)
> Thanks to all of you!
>
> And keep the ideas coming.
It just keeps getting better (as they say).
Thoughts:
Alejandro had a good point about making the PR shorter.
Unfortunately, looking through the doc, I can't really suggest pieces that
you'd want to delete.
Alejandro also had a good point about getting rid of the v0.10
ANNOUNCE language. I think over the past few iterations, that has basically
been done.
Allan had a good point about wanting a separate press release as opposed to
an ANNOUNCE. It seems to me, though, that you could get an ok (shorter)
press release just by removing most of the bottom part of the document.
I.e., you wouldn't need "What's New", "What about KLyX", or "Where do I get it"
(the lyx.org link is enough to start with). Ah. I just went back and saw in
a previous mail that you only mean this as an ANNOUNCE, not something to go
to a "real" magazine, and that you're planning on writing that later.
When you do write the magazine thing, I'd definitely take some ideas from
Larry's submission. While "drop everything and use LyX" might be a little
informal or sound biased, I think he had some good descriptions of LyX's
major features. I guess this PR assumes that people will know what a word
processor includes, so you don't need to say that it has footnoting , but
for a magazine article you'd of course need that. I'll stop saying things
everybody knows now :)
>
> Questions/musings:
>
> - Anybody doing the rpm? And where to post it? Refer to rufus?
*Someone* used to make rpm's. Was it Mate?
Oh yeah. You should also mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (the RevTeX contact). And ask
Peter SÜtterlin the address for the AAPaper folks. And you probably know the
Springer contact (ejour2) since you wrote the Extended doc for it.
Jean-Marc, didn't you do some IEEE stuff recently? Anyway, for any of these
mails, it would be a good idea to include a "cover letter" saying that LyX
works with their LaTeX documentclass. If we could get just one of these
large science groups to suggest LyX to their users, we'd get a whole bunch
of new users. And I've always felt that clueless professors would be much
happier using LyX than hacking LaTeX ("what's a text editor?"). I actually
talked to the RevTeX guy a while ago. He said he had tried LyX and sounded
interested in a new version...
A couple minor grammar and spelling things (it's that sort of day). All are
IMO and (as you'll see) pretty minor.
In the line "LyX enables authors to concentrate on content and structure of
their text", I would write "...on the content and structure..."
I would remove the exclamation point at the end of the second paragraph.
You wrote "also" twice in the "ergonomic" paragraph.
You seem to suffer a bit from em-dash disease. I've got it too---I find
myself using them all the time---but some readers find it very
distracting. For example, in the third paragraph you've got three of them.
I'd replace at least one with a colon or semicolon.
If we're assuming readers don't know LaTeX, then maybe you'd want to replace
"dvi or ghostview previews" with "page previews" or "print previews".
While I've come over to your side on the Microsoft paragraph, I still don't
really like the "price to pay" sentence. I don't know how much sense it
makes to people who aren't familiar with LyX, and it might imply that LyX is
more limited than we know it is.
I'm getting psyched for the release!
-Amir
doc. syntax
On Thu, Nov 18, 1999 at 05:53:14PM +1000, Peter Drummond wrote: No sweat - appreciate all your efforts at making RELYX work as well as it does! If you don't go the Tex route for a native format, has anyone thought about using XML - its very close to what you have got anyway, in syntax, but has a more standard set of conventions. The core coders could probably point you to a discussion of document syntax on the mailing list archives. I *believe* that the current thinking is that a syntax change is planned, but not soon, because they're worrying about STL and GUI issues right now. Any comments, anyone? Don't be afriad; it's friday. -Amir
doc. syntax
On Thu, Nov 18, 1999 at 05:53:14PM +1000, Peter Drummond wrote: > > No sweat - appreciate all your efforts at making RELYX work as well as it > does! If you don't go the Tex route for a native format, has anyone > thought about using XML - its very close to what you have got anyway, in > syntax, but has a more standard set of conventions. The core coders could probably point you to a discussion of document syntax on the mailing list archives. I *believe* that the current thinking is that a syntax change is planned, but not soon, because they're worrying about STL and GUI issues right now. Any comments, anyone? Don't be afriad; it's friday. -Amir
disk space
I don't know whatever happened to this discussion, but I saw this on slashdot today: "LinuxBox.com is providing free hosting for Open Source developers" -Amir
disk space
I don't know whatever happened to this discussion, but I saw this on slashdot today: "LinuxBox.com is providing free hosting for Open Source developers" -Amir
Re: LyX/KLyX mailing lists and PR
On Wed, Jan 13, 1999 at 12:09:53PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Roland" == Roland Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed. The code freeze is (mainly) in place, altough a few new features have slipped in :) We might want to delay the litterate programming and 'Replace all' features until 1.0.1, maybe. I agree. We've theoretically had a feature freeze for months now, and if we don't have a real feature freeze, 1.0 will never be released. There's nothing wrong with delaying these things til 1.0.1. After all, 1.0.1pre1 could come out the day after 1.0.0. We just want to get something *out* there. Luckily, it seems noone has declared a reLyX feature freeze. OTOH, all those lazy reLyX developers don't seem to be doing anything. But what we need is somebody who is commited to the PR of LyX. Any volunteer? It's great that Martin (whom we all know by now is a famous linux writer) has volunteered to do PR. Don't forget that Allan Rae had volunteered to do so, too, and I know he had at least some plans. I'm sure that Allan will be happy to co-direct PR with Martin (at least, I get the impression neither of you *really* wants to do it) but you probably ought to coordinate your efforts. OTOH, Allan was away. Is he back? Do we know when he's returning? Yes, it would be very nice. Also, we should do now the reunification of the mailing lists, like [EMAIL PROTECTED] for both LyX and KLyX [EMAIL PROTECTED] for LyX development (already there) [EMAIL PROTECTED] for KLyX development I know there have been some communication problems between Mate (Wierdl) and Martin (Konold) for the user's list move, but it would be really nice if we could settle this point *now*. I agree 100%. The move to lyx.org was important, but confusing. I think we've removed references to via from the README, etc. It's very important before 1.0 comes out to trim down the number of mailing lists, and to UPDATE THE LYX WEB SITES with this (and other) information! Lars: please do something about the web sites when you get back. Either give more people access or give people specific things to do check in their inputs. We can't expect all of the various files, docs, and web site to be perfectly accurate and up to date all of the time, but if there's one time when they can be, it should be the 1.0 release. -Amir
Re: LyX/KLyX mailing lists and PR
On Wed, Jan 13, 1999 at 12:09:53PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > "Roland" == Roland Krause <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Agreed. The code freeze is (mainly) in place, altough a few new > features have slipped in :) We might want to delay the litterate > programming and 'Replace all' features until 1.0.1, maybe. I agree. We've theoretically had a feature freeze for months now, and if we don't have a real feature freeze, 1.0 will never be released. There's nothing wrong with delaying these things til 1.0.1. After all, 1.0.1pre1 could come out the day after 1.0.0. We just want to get something *out* there. Luckily, it seems noone has declared a reLyX feature freeze. OTOH, all those lazy reLyX developers don't seem to be doing anything. > But what we need is somebody who is commited to the PR of LyX. Any > volunteer? It's great that Martin (whom we all know by now is a famous linux writer) has volunteered to do PR. Don't forget that Allan Rae had volunteered to do so, too, and I know he had at least some plans. I'm sure that Allan will be happy to co-direct PR with Martin (at least, I get the impression neither of you *really* wants to do it) but you probably ought to coordinate your efforts. OTOH, Allan was away. Is he back? Do we know when he's returning? > Yes, it would be very nice. Also, we should do now the reunification > of the mailing lists, like > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for both LyX and KLyX > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for LyX development (already there) > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for KLyX development > > I know there have been some communication problems between Mate > (Wierdl) and Martin (Konold) for the user's list move, but it would be > really nice if we could settle this point *now*. I agree 100%. The move to lyx.org was important, but confusing. I think we've removed references to via from the README, etc. It's very important before 1.0 comes out to trim down the number of mailing lists, and to UPDATE THE LYX WEB SITES with this (and other) information! Lars: please do something about the web sites when you get back. Either give more people access or give people specific things to do & check in their inputs. We can't expect all of the various files, docs, and web site to be perfectly accurate and up to date all of the time, but if there's one time when they can be, it should be the 1.0 release. -Amir
Re: (general doc issue)
On Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 09:04:15AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cut and paste should be okay but raises another issue. My last doc submissions included a lot of "by hand" linebreaking so things would print well. This resulted in some ERT being inserted into various docs. I did this hoping that 1.0.0 would be out by now and that people wanted clean, printable docs. New documentation is always good, but it will affect the need for some of the linebreaks. So my question is this: should the docs be biased for clean reading within LyX, or for clean printing on paper? The difference may sound trivial, but trust me, it is not. There is a fair amount of work converting between the two, and a lot of ERT comes and goes to keep things looking good. Now, I'm not about to suggest we stop writing documentation, but is the work need to make nicely printed docs worth the effort? If not, I don't want to waste my time doing it. FWIW, the usual trouble spots are URL's, code, and other verbatim-like stuff. Comments? I certainly don't want to suggest that you were wasting your time when you did this, but I feel it's not worth optimizing for printing for several reasons. (1) It creates ERT. (2) The docs are constantly changing, which would require a person (e.g., you) to be worrying constantly about changing the linebreaks, too. (3) We're not entirely sure when 1.0 will come out. If you can get an absolute commitment from Lars the day before it comes out, then you could perhaps spend that night fixing things, but otherwise there would be no way to be sure. (4) Perhaps most importantly, I feel like the docs ought to be optimized for reading within LyX. (4a) It's not like we have a LyX software package that people can buy at a store (yet? :) that needs a printed manual (4b) How often do people read printed docs anyway? In my experience, people don't read docs at *all* more often than not. And IMO people are much more likely to read docs from a menu rather than getting up, asking their coworkers who had the LyX manual last, "no I meant the user guide not the tutorial", and then they can't even do a search for the word they're looking for. Maybe sysadmins who install LyX for their groups do print out the manuals; maybe individual LyXers have found it useful to have a printed copy, but I think the greatest benefit for the greatest number lies in reducing ERT (via the Editors' Revolt to Trim ERT) and optimizing for LyX. As a separate issue, is there a way to get LyX to linebreak intelligently in such cases? But doesn't url.sty make url's break cleanly? I just looked at the docs for it, and it sort of looks like we ought to be using it for any url's or email addresses in the docs... -Amir
Re: (general doc issue) [and now a plea for sloppypar]
On Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 10:18:00AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Editors' Revolt to Trim ERT) and optimizing for LyX. Is this ERTERT? :-) Sure. Remember that I"m also a member of the Redundant Redundancy Reduction Committee. url.sty is certainly one option, at least for the URLs. Is it included in teTeX-0.4? I personally use the teTeX-0.9 pretest versions, but I don't want to lose compatibility with 0.4 since most people will have that. 0.4 (at least with update 008) has url.sty. Beyond that, the best solution for the things I noticed would be to add a paragraph style option for "sloppypar". This is a standard LaTeX environment which relaxes the spacing penalties. Please, oh mighty and wise developers, add this one soon! I think this one's on the todo list. It would be useful for all sorts of things, but especially the docs. Another thing I would like is a real line break in the LaTeX sense: one that fully justifies the line, then returns, unlike (or in addition to) the current variation which stops in the middle of the line (i.e. left justifies) and breaks. But I can wait longer for this one. I think this one might have to be a "special character". There's only so many "Returns" you can have. C-Return, M-Return. It would get too confusing otherwise. I think there's probably a bunch of latex "minicommands" that would do well as Special_Chars. No, I can't think of any others right now... Okay, enough hot air. Back to using LyX to write a proposal which has Boeing (yes, the big aerospace company) as a contractor to little, ol' me. Ain't astronomy great? :-) Yup. Can I have a job? -Ak
Re: slides
On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 06:06:08PM -0500, John Weiss wrote: On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Amir Karger wrote: btw, I *still* think that adding magenta, blue, cyan, and green is adding more colors you don't need. Why not make all slide stuff one color? Am I the only one uncomfortable with all these colors? Any devvie who doesn't like all those colors: skip to the bottom of this message first. Everything one color: not WYSIWYM. It'll be hard to tell where one Slide begins and ends. Same deal for Overlay and Note. I want *at least two* distinct colors to indicate the start of a new Slide, Overlay, or Note. Hm. I wasn't arguing that you should make the "New Slide" *black* (or whatever the foreground color is). Just that New Slide, New Overlay, and New Note could be the same color. I guess you're saying that even with that, it will be confusing. I think that when people see the very visible "New *" command, they'll be able to see which kind of new thing it is. But your point is well taken that it will only use all those colors if you use overlays notes, which many slides don't. So I guess maybe I don't need to waste everyone's time complaining about it :) Second point: the slides.layout is a *horrible* kludge of an ancient LaTeX style onto LyX. We need it because "slides.cls" is one of the Standard Five for LaTeX2e. However, we don't have the proper facilities to support it in LyX. Have any of you ever used the slides layout, or am I the only one? Anybody who's used it will tell you that it's really easy to get rather lost, as easy as in an ASCII LaTeX file. At that point, the usefulness of LyX over emacs/vi for using "slides.cls" becomes debatable. Not exactly what we want. I've used slides, which is perhaps why I'm the only one fussing. I think that mathed makes it totally worth using this instead of vi. And with a properly sized window, you can even get a pretty good idea of how much will fit on a slide. That's not very wysiwym, but I think several people have told me that slides aren't inherently wysiwym anyway. I actually haven't made a poster since the latest slides patches came in, so in fact I can't *really* say how I would react to the changes. So, I'd rather that the LyX support for "slides.cls" be a bit visually noisy [which it only is if you use *all* of the features, BTW]. It looks horrible because it *is* horrible! ;) Any devvie who doesn't like the colors, or the ASCII lines in certain labels, is welcome to email me with their reasons why. I will gladly implement their suggested changes to slides.layout...once *they* implement the features in LyX that I need for make the layout less of a kludge. Unfortunately, I'm not (yet?) that kind of devvie. IMO, the most useful thing for slides.layout would be better fontsize support. Slides often use different font sizes. Unfortunately, AFAIK there's totally no way to support that in LyX (1.0). Would it be better not to redefine any of the font sizes, but to use a much bigger "zoom" factor? Then the font sizes, as well as the math, would be correct, but (maybe?) you could still get a good idea of the size of each slide. Alternatively, I could just start using foils -Amir ps welcome back, Allan
Re: (general doc issue)
On Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 09:04:15AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Cut and paste should be okay but raises another issue. My last doc > submissions included a lot of "by hand" linebreaking so things would print > well. This resulted in some ERT being inserted into various docs. I did > this hoping that 1.0.0 would be out by now and that people wanted clean, > printable docs. > > New documentation is always good, but it will affect the need for some of > the linebreaks. So my question is this: should the docs be biased for > clean reading within LyX, or for clean printing on paper? > > The difference may sound trivial, but trust me, it is not. There is a fair > amount of work converting between the two, and a lot of ERT comes and goes > to keep things looking good. Now, I'm not about to suggest we stop writing > documentation, but is the work need to make nicely printed docs worth the > effort? If not, I don't want to waste my time doing it. > > FWIW, the usual trouble spots are URL's, code, and other verbatim-like > stuff. > > Comments? I certainly don't want to suggest that you were wasting your time when you did this, but I feel it's not worth optimizing for printing for several reasons. (1) It creates ERT. (2) The docs are constantly changing, which would require a person (e.g., you) to be worrying constantly about changing the linebreaks, too. (3) We're not entirely sure when 1.0 will come out. If you can get an absolute commitment from Lars the day before it comes out, then you could perhaps spend that night fixing things, but otherwise there would be no way to be sure. (4) Perhaps most importantly, I feel like the docs ought to be optimized for reading within LyX. (4a) It's not like we have a LyX software package that people can buy at a store (yet? :) that needs a printed manual (4b) How often do people read printed docs anyway? In my experience, people don't read docs at *all* more often than not. And IMO people are much more likely to read docs from a menu rather than getting up, asking their coworkers who had the LyX manual last, "no I meant the user guide not the tutorial", and then they can't even do a search for the word they're looking for. Maybe sysadmins who install LyX for their groups do print out the manuals; maybe individual LyXers have found it useful to have a printed copy, but I think the greatest benefit for the greatest number lies in reducing ERT (via the Editors' Revolt to Trim ERT) and optimizing for LyX. As a separate issue, is there a way to get LyX to linebreak intelligently in such cases? But doesn't url.sty make url's break cleanly? I just looked at the docs for it, and it sort of looks like we ought to be using it for any url's or email addresses in the docs... -Amir
Re: (general doc issue) [and now a plea for sloppypar]
On Mon, Jan 11, 1999 at 10:18:00AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Editors' Revolt to Trim ERT) and optimizing for LyX. > > Is this ERTERT? :-) Sure. Remember that I"m also a member of the Redundant Redundancy Reduction Committee. > url.sty is certainly one option, at least for the URLs. Is it included in > teTeX-0.4? I personally use the teTeX-0.9 pretest versions, but I don't > want to lose compatibility with 0.4 since most people will have that. 0.4 (at least with update 008) has url.sty. > Beyond that, the best solution for the things I noticed would be to add a > paragraph style option for "sloppypar". This is a standard LaTeX > environment which relaxes the spacing penalties. > > Please, oh mighty and wise developers, add this one soon! I think this one's on the todo list. > It would be useful for all sorts of things, but especially the docs. > Another thing I would like is a real line break in the LaTeX sense: one > that fully justifies the line, then returns, unlike (or in addition to) > the current variation which stops in the middle of the line (i.e. left > justifies) and breaks. But I can wait longer for this one. I think this one might have to be a "special character". There's only so many "Returns" you can have. C-Return, M-Return. It would get too confusing otherwise. I think there's probably a bunch of latex "minicommands" that would do well as Special_Chars. No, I can't think of any others right now... > Okay, enough hot air. Back to using LyX to write a proposal which has > Boeing (yes, the big aerospace company) as a contractor to little, ol' me. > Ain't astronomy great? :-) Yup. Can I have a job? -Ak
Re: slides
On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 06:06:08PM -0500, John Weiss wrote: > On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Amir Karger wrote: > > btw, I *still* think that adding magenta, blue, cyan, and green is > > adding more colors you don't need. Why not make all slide stuff one > > color? Am I the only one uncomfortable with all these colors? > > Any devvie who doesn't like all those colors: skip to the bottom of > this message first. > > Everything one color: not WYSIWYM. It'll be hard to tell where one > Slide begins and ends. Same deal for Overlay and Note. I want *at > least two* distinct colors to indicate the start of a new Slide, > Overlay, or Note. Hm. I wasn't arguing that you should make the "New Slide" *black* (or whatever the foreground color is). Just that New Slide, New Overlay, and New Note could be the same color. I guess you're saying that even with that, it will be confusing. I think that when people see the very visible "New *" command, they'll be able to see which kind of new thing it is. But your point is well taken that it will only use all those colors if you use overlays & notes, which many slides don't. So I guess maybe I don't need to waste everyone's time complaining about it :) > Second point: the slides.layout is a *horrible* kludge of an ancient > LaTeX style onto LyX. We need it because "slides.cls" is one of the > Standard Five for LaTeX2e. However, we don't have the proper > facilities to support it in LyX. > > Have any of you ever used the slides layout, or am I the only one? > Anybody who's used it will tell you that it's really easy to get > rather lost, as easy as in an ASCII LaTeX file. At that point, the > usefulness of LyX over emacs/vi for using "slides.cls" becomes > debatable. Not exactly what we want. I've used slides, which is perhaps why I'm the only one fussing. I think that mathed makes it totally worth using this instead of vi. And with a properly sized window, you can even get a pretty good idea of how much will fit on a slide. That's not very wysiwym, but I think several people have told me that slides aren't inherently wysiwym anyway. I actually haven't made a poster since the latest slides patches came in, so in fact I can't *really* say how I would react to the changes. > > So, I'd rather that the LyX support for "slides.cls" be a bit visually > noisy [which it only is if you use *all* of the features, BTW]. It > looks horrible because it *is* horrible! ;) Any devvie who doesn't > like the colors, or the ASCII lines in certain labels, is welcome to > email me with their reasons why. I will gladly implement their > suggested changes to slides.layout...once *they* implement the > features in LyX that I need for make the layout less of a kludge. > Unfortunately, I'm not (yet?) that kind of devvie. IMO, the most useful thing for slides.layout would be better fontsize support. Slides often use different font sizes. Unfortunately, AFAIK there's totally no way to support that in LyX (1.0). Would it be better not to redefine any of the font sizes, but to use a much bigger "zoom" factor? Then the font sizes, as well as the math, would be correct, but (maybe?) you could still get a good idea of the size of each slide. Alternatively, I could just start using foils -Amir ps welcome back, Allan
Re: reLyX.lyx doc!
On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 08:55:02AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Excellent idea! And I like the result. Yay! I wish I was so impressive I could impress myself. Well, if you'd like, you can just be impressed by me instead. That will make two of us :) Amir Do me a favor and take a look at it. Are there things I need to Amir translate differently, or could we include it just like this in Amir lyxdoc? Are there typos? Would it be possible to make it have a real title instead of this stupid first section? To have some of the text in tt font when necessary (even if it is not visible in the Man)? To avoid having UPPERCASE section titles. In short, I'd like to have the best of both worlds: a man page which looks like a man page, and a LyX document which looks like a document. This is a great idea, and at least parts of it ought to be entirely possible. I definitely have various ideas for upgrading pod2lyx so that the resulting LyX file is more appropriate to LyX. Make the section names "ufirst" is a good example. Things we could do: - as you suggest, make the name of the pod file into the title. Hm. We could either use the actual name of the pod OR take the "NAME" section. The NAME section is required for conforming pod, so that should be safe. The only problem is that the title might be too long. Another option would be to make the NAME section into an Abstract---or compromise and make the actual program name into a \title and its description (anything following a - and whitespace) into an abstract. - add a table of contents. (Why not? It's essentially free if we use Section instead of Section*). Admittedly, you don't expect a table of contents in a man page, but I wish they had one in, say, the csh man page (26 pages)! - pod L references. pod2man turns L"BUGS" into "the BUGS section in elsewhere in this man page. We can do the same BUT we can create labels for each section, and then ADD A REFERENCE when translating the L to make it a hyperlink! - pod2latex automatically indexes every section item. I turned that off but we could make it an option. (And there's an X pod thing to index anyway) -handle accents. I just realized that pod does, so I added the accent aigu (sp?) to the e and i in José Abílio. Etienne and David Suarez de Lis (and John Weiss :) should let me know if they have latin1 accents in their names, too. Anyway, "man" doesn't support it but lyx does, so we could translate that too. (pod2latex already does this, so it should be easy) - other ideas? I'm in excited to be coding mode now, so now's the time for feature requests :) Until a man page class exists, I think you should continue developping the pod version. Besides, having a pod2lyx script could appeal to perl hackers... in particular if we add pod support into LyX (how difficult would that be?). I would think that José could make linuxdoc/docbook output this pretty easily, since it's similar to man/html sorts of things and very simple. I agree that this could be useful to perl hackers, especially if we make the pod2lyx and lyx2pod translations trivial. Then you could write docs in LyX, without needing to remember the fancy escape characters, and output pod, which is the extremely portable perl standard. Or output man/html/text straight from lyx instead of going through pod. Neat! -Amir
Re: reLyX.lyx doc!
On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 05:03:05PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
Amir - other ideas? I'm in excited to be coding mode now, so now's
Amir the time for feature requests :)
And what about reLyX? g
Humph. I recently found out that reLyX can't find \include'd files if you run
reLyX on a file not in the current directory. For example:
reLyX dir/foo.tex
if foo has "\include{bar}" then reLyX looks for bar in the current directory,
not in dir. That's dumb! Unfortunately, the solution isn't trivial, since e.g.
an included file might have another included file. In addition, there's the
whole mess of the new -o option to consider. It means the argument to the
\include command may be very different from the actual file you're including.
My current idea for a fix is to chdir my way around so that the file we're
reLyXing is always in the current directory. This may not be the best
solution. For example, how slow is changing directories?
There's a perl module that turns relative path names into absolute ones and
vice versa. However, I can't use it because it's not in the standard perl
distribution. I might steal ideas from it, though.
PS: to reward to from your hard work, not that I took care of removing
your name from the To: field, so that you get only one copy of this
otherwise very interesting message.
I'm so grateful! Maybe I'll send an extra copy of this message to show that my
gratitude can't fit in just one message.
-Amir
ReLyX directores [was: Re: reLyX.lyx doc!]
OK, thinking about the JMarc method of putting all lyx files we create in pwd (or -o dir)... There are a couple of different cases where we need to make sure you're not creating two LyX files with the same name. (1) a.tex includes foo/inc.tex and bar/inc.tex. So the LyX filenames we create ought to have something to differentiate two files with the same basename (as JMarc had previously mentioned). I had previously wanted to create a name like relyx_foo_inc.lyx and relyx_bar_inc.lyx. However, the Lyx file names could get extremely long that way. Why not just make them relyx_1_inc.lyx and relyx_2_inc.lyx? That way, we can't possibly write two copies of the same lyx file during one reLyX run. (2) a.tex includes foo/inc.tex, and b.tex includes bar/inc.tex. At one point, you run reLyX on a.tex. At some later time, you run reLyX on b.tex. Using the above methodology, both of these files will create relyx_1_inc.lyx. So let's put in the PID. then we'll have relyx_15342_1_inc.lyx and relyx_16234_1_inc.lyx, for example. These file names aren't *that* long, and we've ensured that the file names are safely unique. Now. I suspect that usually, the files a person \includes *will* be in the same directory, and it would be inconvenient always to have to rename those files from relyx_4324_1_inc.lyx to just inc.lyx. We know it's impossible to have two files with the same name in a directory, so if a.tex includes outputdir/inc.tex (where outputdir is the dir given with the -o option or is the directory of the original file (hm. what about the -p option?)) it seems safe to just change outputdir/inc.tex into outputdir/inc.lyx without any fancy prefix. Now, people would still have to rename those ugly long files. But the other option is to leave things the way they are, where if a file includes dir/foo.tex then you create dir/foo.lyx, which is a problem if you include a file in a read-only directory, for example. Seems like all of the options are kind of ugly. _Amir
Re: reLyX.lyx doc!
On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 08:55:02AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > Excellent idea! And I like the result. Yay! > > I wish I was so impressive I could impress myself. Well, if you'd like, you can just be impressed by me instead. That will make two of us :) > Amir> Do me a favor and take a look at it. Are there things I need to > Amir> translate differently, or could we include it just like this in > Amir> lyxdoc? Are there typos? > > Would it be possible to make it have a real title instead of this > stupid first section? To have some of the text in tt font when > necessary (even if it is not visible in the Man)? To avoid having > UPPERCASE section titles. > > In short, I'd like to have the best of both worlds: a man page which > looks like a man page, and a LyX document which looks like a document. This is a great idea, and at least parts of it ought to be entirely possible. I definitely have various ideas for upgrading pod2lyx so that the resulting LyX file is more appropriate to LyX. Make the section names "ufirst" is a good example. Things we could do: - as you suggest, make the name of the pod file into the title. Hm. We could either use the actual name of the pod OR take the "NAME" section. The NAME section is required for conforming pod, so that should be safe. The only problem is that the title might be too long. Another option would be to make the NAME section into an Abstract---or compromise and make the actual program name into a \title and its description (anything following a - and whitespace) into an abstract. - add a table of contents. (Why not? It's essentially free if we use Section instead of Section*). Admittedly, you don't expect a table of contents in a man page, but I wish they had one in, say, the csh man page (26 pages)! - pod L<> references. pod2man turns L<"BUGS"> into "the BUGS section in elsewhere in this man page. We can do the same BUT we can create labels for each section, and then ADD A REFERENCE when translating the L<> to make it a hyperlink! - pod2latex automatically indexes every section & item. I turned that off but we could make it an option. (And there's an X<> pod thing to index anyway) -handle accents. I just realized that pod does, so I added the accent aigu (sp?) to the e and i in José Abílio. Etienne and David Suarez de Lis (and John Weiss :) should let me know if they have latin1 accents in their names, too. Anyway, "man" doesn't support it but lyx does, so we could translate that too. (pod2latex already does this, so it should be easy) - other ideas? I'm in excited to be coding mode now, so now's the time for feature requests :) > Until a man page class exists, I think you should continue developping > the pod version. Besides, having a pod2lyx script could appeal to perl > hackers... in particular if we add pod support into LyX (how difficult > would that be?). I would think that José could make linuxdoc/docbook output this pretty easily, since it's similar to man/html sorts of things and very simple. I agree that this could be useful to perl hackers, especially if we make the pod2lyx and lyx2pod translations trivial. Then you could write docs in LyX, without needing to remember the fancy escape characters, and output pod, which is the extremely portable perl standard. Or output man/html/text straight from lyx instead of going through pod. Neat! -Amir
Re: reLyX.lyx doc!
On Fri, Jan 08, 1999 at 05:03:05PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
>
> Amir> - other ideas? I'm in excited to be coding mode now, so now's
> Amir> the time for feature requests :)
>
> And what about reLyX?
Humph. I recently found out that reLyX can't find \include'd files if you run
reLyX on a file not in the current directory. For example:
reLyX dir/foo.tex
if foo has "\include{bar}" then reLyX looks for bar in the current directory,
not in dir. That's dumb! Unfortunately, the solution isn't trivial, since e.g.
an included file might have another included file. In addition, there's the
whole mess of the new -o option to consider. It means the argument to the
\include command may be very different from the actual file you're including.
My current idea for a fix is to chdir my way around so that the file we're
reLyXing is always in the current directory. This may not be the best
solution. For example, how slow is changing directories?
There's a perl module that turns relative path names into absolute ones and
vice versa. However, I can't use it because it's not in the standard perl
distribution. I might steal ideas from it, though.
> PS: to reward to from your hard work, not that I took care of removing
> your name from the To: field, so that you get only one copy of this
> otherwise very interesting message.
I'm so grateful! Maybe I'll send an extra copy of this message to show that my
gratitude can't fit in just one message.
-Amir
ReLyX directores [was: Re: reLyX.lyx doc!]
OK, thinking about the JMarc method of putting all lyx files we create in pwd (or -o dir)... There are a couple of different cases where we need to make sure you're not creating two LyX files with the same name. (1) a.tex includes foo/inc.tex and bar/inc.tex. So the LyX filenames we create ought to have something to differentiate two files with the same basename (as JMarc had previously mentioned). I had previously wanted to create a name like relyx_foo_inc.lyx and relyx_bar_inc.lyx. However, the Lyx file names could get extremely long that way. Why not just make them relyx_1_inc.lyx and relyx_2_inc.lyx? That way, we can't possibly write two copies of the same lyx file during one reLyX run. (2) a.tex includes foo/inc.tex, and b.tex includes bar/inc.tex. At one point, you run reLyX on a.tex. At some later time, you run reLyX on b.tex. Using the above methodology, both of these files will create relyx_1_inc.lyx. So let's put in the PID. then we'll have relyx_15342_1_inc.lyx and relyx_16234_1_inc.lyx, for example. These file names aren't *that* long, and we've ensured that the file names are safely unique. Now. I suspect that usually, the files a person \includes *will* be in the same directory, and it would be inconvenient always to have to rename those files from relyx_4324_1_inc.lyx to just inc.lyx. We know it's impossible to have two files with the same name in a directory, so if a.tex includes outputdir/inc.tex (where outputdir is the dir given with the -o option or is the directory of the original file (hm. what about the -p option?)) it seems safe to just change outputdir/inc.tex into outputdir/inc.lyx without any fancy prefix. Now, people would still have to rename those ugly long files. But the other option is to leave things the way they are, where if a file includes dir/foo.tex then you create dir/foo.lyx, which is a problem if you include a file in a read-only directory, for example. Seems like all of the options are kind of ugly. _Amir
Re: Update of WHATSNEW
On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:05:36AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: "Amir" == Amir Karger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amir So maybe the best thing to do is say something like: "Better Amir support (keyboard bindings, keyboard mappings, and/or menu and Amir error message translations) for french, hungarian, swiss Amir [german?], and swedish." or simply "... for several languages"? Well, I tend to believe that mentioning specific features that people will like is more effective than saying "LyX can do almost everything almost perfectly!" Mentioning specific languages might people who speak that language to say "hey, a word processor [sic] that speaks my language. Why don't I try to download it?" And then they're hooked. Whereas if you say "several languages" they might not bother. But maybe you should tell me how you foreigners think :) -Amir
Re: Update of WHATSNEW
On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 04:18:47PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: But maybe you should tell me how you foreigners think :) Hey, *you* are the foreigner! No. Maybe je suis l'étranger, or l'homme foreign, or however, you say that. Peter But you're right, in the anouncement there should be all Peter supported languages mentioned literally. I'd swear it used to be somewhere, ANNOUNCE or README. And I seem to remember that AMir shortened some files a while ago... I could've sworn it was somewhere too. But I didn't remember removing any languages, and indeed looking at the various diffs from that cvs checkin, I couldn't find any languages mentioned. I don't really have a feeling as to whether it should go in ANNOUNCE or README. As usual, it's dangerous to put it in both because then we need to update both as all those new language files keep pouring in (we hope). But the new languages ought to go in WHATSNEW, I think. I think one of my earlier mails on this thread gave a pretty complete list of the new language stuff, not just the po files. -Amir
slides
Did anyone check John Weiss' slide patch in the docs (Mike)? How about in lyx-1_0_x/lib/layouts? By the way, I looked at the patch. John, did you misspell visible and invisible? And did you mean the commands to be \lyxinvisible and \lyxvisible? Because in your patch the LatexNames are lyxinvisibe and visibe, but the \newcommand commands redefine \lyxinvisible and and \lyxvisible. btw, I *still* think that adding magenta, blue, cyan, and green is adding more colors you don't need. Why not make all slide stuff one color? Am I the only one uncomfortable with all these colors? -Amir
reLyX.lyx doc!
Jean-Marc has been bugging me to make the reLyX man page into a reLyX document, so that it could be included in the Help menu. (Of course, if you're going to be using the fancy arguments to reLyX, then you need to call it from the command line anyway. But of course all that will change when Asger fixes the Import form so that you can give options to the reLyX command called from within LyX :) I had despaired of doing so. There's a pod2latex program, and I tried running reLyX on its output. Unfortunately, pod2latex is latex209 (isn't that lame?! And this thing comes with the Perl distribution!), so by the time it got through reLyX it was *really* ugly. Then I though I could use the fancy new sgml utilities, but from discussions with José, it didn't sound very possible. José suggested, however, that it would be easy for a Perl expert (*blush* :) to modify pod2latex to output LyX instead. (Especially if that Perl expert knew how to convert latex to lyx!) Well, I'm happy to report that I did a major hack job on pod2latex, and my pre-alpha version of pod2lyx actually works! Of course, I've been using it on reLyX.pod, so anything not included in that isn't supported. Nonetheless, it means I'm able to attach reLyX.lyx (gzipped). Which is legal LyX and produces legal LaTeX, which really surprises me. Do me a favor and take a look at it. Are there things I need to translate differently, or could we include it just like this in lyxdoc? Are there typos? When I find the time, I'd like to make some additions. As long as we're turning it into a lyxdoc, I can add table of contents, e.g. I guess the only question now is whether it's better to continue editing it as a pod page or a LyX doc. I guess the answer is that José is going to have support for a "man page" linuxdoc (OK, I don't really know what that means) which means I"ll have the best of both worlds. I.e., we'll have a lyxdoc, but also be able to export a man page for someone to call if they're using reLyX from the command line. Great! -Amir reLyX.lyx.gz
Re: Update of WHATSNEW
On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 11:05:36AM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > >>>>> "Amir" == Amir Karger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Amir> So maybe the best thing to do is say something like: "Better > Amir> support (keyboard bindings, keyboard mappings, and/or menu and > Amir> error message translations) for french, hungarian, swiss > Amir> [german?], and swedish." > > or simply "... for several languages"? Well, I tend to believe that mentioning specific features that people will like is more effective than saying "LyX can do almost everything almost perfectly!" Mentioning specific languages might people who speak that language to say "hey, a word processor [sic] that speaks my language. Why don't I try to download it?" And then they're hooked. Whereas if you say "several languages" they might not bother. But maybe you should tell me how you foreigners think :) -Amir
Re: Update of WHATSNEW
On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 04:18:47PM +0100, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > > >> But maybe you should tell me how you foreigners think :) > > Hey, *you* are the foreigner! No. Maybe je suis l'étranger, or l'homme foreign, or however, you say that. > Peter> But you're right, in the anouncement there should be all > Peter> supported languages mentioned literally. > > I'd swear it used to be somewhere, ANNOUNCE or README. And I seem to > remember that AMir shortened some files a while ago... I could've sworn it was somewhere too. But I didn't remember removing any languages, and indeed looking at the various diffs from that cvs checkin, I couldn't find any languages mentioned. I don't really have a feeling as to whether it should go in ANNOUNCE or README. As usual, it's dangerous to put it in both because then we need to update both as all those new language files keep pouring in (we hope). But the new languages ought to go in WHATSNEW, I think. I think one of my earlier mails on this thread gave a pretty complete list of the new language stuff, not just the po files. -Amir
