Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 21.03.2012 16:56, Marc de Bruijn wrote:

Jerrylanceboyleat  qwest.net  writes:


On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Olivier Ripoll wrote:

I reported the very same sysmptoms a few weeks ago but until now it seems I
was the only person to see it, although I could see it on 2 machines
(different OS versions of windows, different CPU different graphic cards).
So I am somehow glad it's happening to you (sorry).





You're probably missing some libraries, are you getting any errors when running
./configure?

--
MdB


Hi,

I'm using binaries and tried both Uwe and Joost versions with exactly 
same result.


Best regards,

Olivier

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 21.03.2012 16:56, Marc de Bruijn wrote:

Jerrylanceboyleat  qwest.net  writes:


On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Olivier Ripoll wrote:

I reported the very same sysmptoms a few weeks ago but until now it seems I
was the only person to see it, although I could see it on 2 machines
(different OS versions of windows, different CPU different graphic cards).
So I am somehow glad it's happening to you (sorry).





You're probably missing some libraries, are you getting any errors when running
./configure?

--
MdB


Hi,

I'm using binaries and tried both Uwe and Joost versions with exactly 
same result.


Best regards,

Olivier

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 21.03.2012 16:56, Marc de Bruijn wrote:

Jerry  writes:


On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Olivier Ripoll wrote:

I reported the very same sysmptoms a few weeks ago but until now it seems I
was the only person to see it, although I could see it on 2 machines
(different OS versions of windows, different CPU different graphic cards).
So I am somehow glad it's happening to you (sorry).





You're probably missing some libraries, are you getting any errors when running
./configure?

--
MdB


Hi,

I'm using binaries and tried both Uwe and Joost versions with exactly 
same result.


Best regards,

Olivier

Re: Slow scrolling

[Marc de Bruijn]

Jerry lanceboyle at qwest.net writes:

 On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
 
  Olivier Ripoll wrote:
  I reported the very same sysmptoms a few weeks ago but until now it seems 
  I 
  was the only person to see it, although I could see it on 2 machines 
  (different OS versions of windows, different CPU different graphic cards). 
  So I am somehow glad it's happening to you (sorry).
  


You're probably missing some libraries, are you getting any errors when running
./configure?

--
MdB

Re: Slow scrolling

[Marc de Bruijn]

Jerry lanceboyle at qwest.net writes:

 On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
 
  Olivier Ripoll wrote:
  I reported the very same sysmptoms a few weeks ago but until now it seems 
  I 
  was the only person to see it, although I could see it on 2 machines 
  (different OS versions of windows, different CPU different graphic cards). 
  So I am somehow glad it's happening to you (sorry).
  


You're probably missing some libraries, are you getting any errors when running
./configure?

--
MdB

Re: Slow scrolling

[Marc de Bruijn]

Jerry  qwest.net> writes:

> On Jan 3, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> 
> > Olivier Ripoll wrote:
> >> I reported the very same sysmptoms a few weeks ago but until now it seems 
> >> I 
> >> was the only person to see it, although I could see it on 2 machines 
> >> (different OS versions of windows, different CPU different graphic cards). 
> >> So I am somehow glad it's happening to you (sorry).
> > 


You're probably missing some libraries, are you getting any errors when running
./configure?

--
MdB

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

It looks like it's about time to wrap up this thread. It has been a good 
exchange and I believe that the developers have been helpful and suitably 
notified. If someone thinks it is better to file a formal bug report, please 
let me know.

I will summarize for myself by saying that, even though I am still in 
evaluation mode with LyX and haven't used it for an extended period of time, I 
estimate that the scrolling behavior with a recent version of 2.1svn, with 

\force_paint_single_char false

added to the preferences file *, would not cause undue scrolling fatigue or 
aggravation with extended use. However, this combination does result in a 
misplaced cursor at times.

Thanks everyone.

Jerry

* Although this is the line that I recall pasting into Preferences, the line 
that is there now is
\force_paint_single_char 0. Maybe the program changed it. In any case, 
changing 0 to 1 degrades scrolling substantially and does not misplace the 
cursor.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 10.01.2012 um 00:28 schrieb Jerry:

 It looks like it's about time to wrap up this thread.
 It has been a good exchange and I believe that the developers have been 
 helpful and suitably notified.
 If someone thinks it is better to file a formal bug report, please let me 
 know.

I think it's not needed. In case you want to, please, verify these tickets 
first:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/6920
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7583

 I will summarize for myself by saying that, even though I am still in 
 evaluation mode with LyX and haven't used it for an extended period of time, 
 I estimate that the scrolling behavior with a recent version of 2.1svn, with 
 
 \force_paint_single_char false
 
 added to the preferences file *, would not cause undue scrolling fatigue or 
 aggravation with extended use. However, this combination does result in a 
 misplaced cursor at times.
 
 Thanks everyone.
 
 Jerry
 
 * Although this is the line that I recall pasting into Preferences, the line 
 that is there now is
 \force_paint_single_char 0. Maybe the program changed it. In any case, 
 changing 0 to 1 degrades scrolling substantially and does not misplace 
 the cursor.

Yes, it's simplified by the program. 

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

It looks like it's about time to wrap up this thread. It has been a good 
exchange and I believe that the developers have been helpful and suitably 
notified. If someone thinks it is better to file a formal bug report, please 
let me know.

I will summarize for myself by saying that, even though I am still in 
evaluation mode with LyX and haven't used it for an extended period of time, I 
estimate that the scrolling behavior with a recent version of 2.1svn, with 

\force_paint_single_char false

added to the preferences file *, would not cause undue scrolling fatigue or 
aggravation with extended use. However, this combination does result in a 
misplaced cursor at times.

Thanks everyone.

Jerry

* Although this is the line that I recall pasting into Preferences, the line 
that is there now is
\force_paint_single_char 0. Maybe the program changed it. In any case, 
changing 0 to 1 degrades scrolling substantially and does not misplace the 
cursor.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 10.01.2012 um 00:28 schrieb Jerry:

 It looks like it's about time to wrap up this thread.
 It has been a good exchange and I believe that the developers have been 
 helpful and suitably notified.
 If someone thinks it is better to file a formal bug report, please let me 
 know.

I think it's not needed. In case you want to, please, verify these tickets 
first:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/6920
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7583

 I will summarize for myself by saying that, even though I am still in 
 evaluation mode with LyX and haven't used it for an extended period of time, 
 I estimate that the scrolling behavior with a recent version of 2.1svn, with 
 
 \force_paint_single_char false
 
 added to the preferences file *, would not cause undue scrolling fatigue or 
 aggravation with extended use. However, this combination does result in a 
 misplaced cursor at times.
 
 Thanks everyone.
 
 Jerry
 
 * Although this is the line that I recall pasting into Preferences, the line 
 that is there now is
 \force_paint_single_char 0. Maybe the program changed it. In any case, 
 changing 0 to 1 degrades scrolling substantially and does not misplace 
 the cursor.

Yes, it's simplified by the program. 

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

It looks like it's about time to wrap up this thread. It has been a good 
exchange and I believe that the developers have been helpful and suitably 
notified. If someone thinks it is better to file a formal bug report, please 
let me know.

I will summarize for myself by saying that, even though I am still in 
evaluation mode with LyX and haven't used it for an extended period of time, I 
estimate that the scrolling behavior with a recent version of 2.1svn, with 

\force_paint_single_char false

added to the preferences file *, would not cause undue scrolling fatigue or 
aggravation with extended use. However, this combination does result in a 
misplaced cursor at times.

Thanks everyone.

Jerry

* Although this is the line that I recall pasting into Preferences, the line 
that is there now is
\force_paint_single_char "0". Maybe the program changed it. In any case, 
changing "0" to "1" degrades scrolling substantially and does not misplace the 
cursor.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 10.01.2012 um 00:28 schrieb Jerry:

> It looks like it's about time to wrap up this thread.
> It has been a good exchange and I believe that the developers have been 
> helpful and suitably notified.
> If someone thinks it is better to file a formal bug report, please let me 
> know.

I think it's not needed. In case you want to, please, verify these tickets 
first:
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/6920
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7583

> I will summarize for myself by saying that, even though I am still in 
> evaluation mode with LyX and haven't used it for an extended period of time, 
> I estimate that the scrolling behavior with a recent version of 2.1svn, with 
> 
> \force_paint_single_char false
> 
> added to the preferences file *, would not cause undue scrolling fatigue or 
> aggravation with extended use. However, this combination does result in a 
> misplaced cursor at times.
> 
> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> * Although this is the line that I recall pasting into Preferences, the line 
> that is there now is
> \force_paint_single_char "0". Maybe the program changed it. In any case, 
> changing "0" to "1" degrades scrolling substantially and does not misplace 
> the cursor.

Yes, it's "simplified" by the program. 

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Hi Jerry,

I confirm that I get 89% when I am over a dense text/math region and
scrolling becomes slightly slower, and jumps more. In my case, I consider
this as a low inconvenience, since I can perfectly see and read the text.
I agree that with Lyx, scrolling under OSX is not as fluid as in other
native Cocoa applications indeed.

Murat

2012/1/6 Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net


 On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

  In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80%
 for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so
 15% since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at
 60% even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening
 music in iTunes.

 I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when
 scrolling text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of documents), and
 is less when scrolling through parts of documents that have more white
 space and/or graphics. This is what originally led me to suspect a problem
 with character rendering.

 Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth over a
 text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU effect as
 scrolling top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f

 Jerry




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Hi Jerry,

I confirm that I get 89% when I am over a dense text/math region and
scrolling becomes slightly slower, and jumps more. In my case, I consider
this as a low inconvenience, since I can perfectly see and read the text.
I agree that with Lyx, scrolling under OSX is not as fluid as in other
native Cocoa applications indeed.

Murat

2012/1/6 Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net


 On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

  In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80%
 for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so
 15% since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at
 60% even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening
 music in iTunes.

 I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when
 scrolling text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of documents), and
 is less when scrolling through parts of documents that have more white
 space and/or graphics. This is what originally led me to suspect a problem
 with character rendering.

 Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth over a
 text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU effect as
 scrolling top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f

 Jerry




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Hi Jerry,

I confirm that I get 89% when I am over a dense text/math region and
scrolling becomes slightly slower, and jumps more. In my case, I consider
this as a low inconvenience, since I can perfectly see and read the text.
I agree that with Lyx, scrolling under OSX is not as fluid as in other
native Cocoa applications indeed.

Murat

2012/1/6 Jerry 

>
> On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:
>
> > In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80%
> for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so
> 15% since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at
> 60% even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening
> music in iTunes.
>
> I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when
> scrolling text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of documents), and
> is less when scrolling through parts of documents that have more white
> space and/or graphics. This is what originally led me to suspect a problem
> with character rendering.
>
> Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth over a
> text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU effect as
> scrolling top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f
>
> Jerry




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 05.01.2012 19:14, André Pönitz wrote:

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 09:28:58AM +0100, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.


I did not see significant changes with or without this line.


Out of curiosity: Can you try the same with \use_pixmap_cache false ?

Andre'



Hi,

I think I should refine my previous statement. I mean that we are 
entering into the subjective changes:


When I drag the scrollbar down on the introduction manual
- 2.0.1 is full scrooling smoothly (*), both in the text scrolling and 
the toolbar scrolling.
- 2.0.2 pristine jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of 
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.

* Adding \use_pixmap_cache and setting to false or true has no effect
	* Adding  \force_paint_single_char, set to false has a slight effect, 
like there are now 5-6 steps and there are sometimes 1-2 areas where it 
scrolls smoothly on a few lines. So I'd say subjectively this setting 
removes 10%-20% of the regression.


Note that the issue is still present if scrolling up back to the top 
then down again (IOW it's not a 1 time effect)


For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50% 
CPU in all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing 
with 2.0.1 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was 
scrolling on smaller areas ...).


Best regards,

Olivier

(*) If you look closely, the scrollbar sometimes may jump a 2-pixel step 
with 2.0.1, but you really don't perceive that as a jump. The 2.0.2 
jumps can be like a 1 second freeze of the scroolbar and text (the mouse 
cursor moving smoothly), then jumps several hundreds pixels down.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

 For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50% CPU in 
 all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing with 2.0.1 
 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was scrolling on smaller 
 areas ...).
 
 Best regards,
 
 Olivier

50% = 1 processor out of two? I have a two-processor Mac and scrolling takes 
100% of one processor.
Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80%
for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so
15% since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at
60% even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening
music in iTunes.

2012/1/6 Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net


 On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

  For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50%
 CPU in all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing
 with 2.0.1 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was scrolling
 on smaller areas ...).
 
  Best regards,
 
  Olivier

 50% = 1 processor out of two? I have a two-processor Mac and scrolling
 takes 100% of one processor.
 Jerry




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 06/01/2012 09:47, Olivier Ripoll a écrit :

- 2.0.2 pristine jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.
* Adding \use_pixmap_cache and setting to false or true has no effect
* Adding  \force_paint_single_char, set to false has a slight effect,


Note that \use_pixmap_cache is not supported in 2.0.2, only in trunk 
(2.1.0svn) for now.


JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[Abdelrazak Younes]

On 06/01/2012 12:02, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 06/01/2012 09:47, Olivier Ripoll a écrit :

- 2.0.2 pristine jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.
* Adding \use_pixmap_cache and setting to false or true has no effect
* Adding  \force_paint_single_char, set to false has a slight effect,


Note that \use_pixmap_cache is not supported in 2.0.2, only in trunk
(2.1.0svn) for now.


You are mixing up \use_qimage and \use_pixmap_cache. \use_pixmap_cache 
is an old setting that I created to speed up text rendering on MAC. But 
apparently MAC users cannot bare the on screen side effect so we can get 
rid of this in trunk maybe.


Abdel.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 06/01/2012 21:12, Abdelrazak Younes a écrit :

You are mixing up \use_qimage and \use_pixmap_cache. \use_pixmap_cache
is an old setting that I created to speed up text rendering on MAC. But
apparently MAC users cannot bare the on screen side effect so we can get
rid of this in trunk maybe.


Oops. I stand corrected.

JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

 In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80% for 
 very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so 15% 
 since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at 60% 
 even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening music 
 in iTunes. 

I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when scrolling 
text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of documents), and is less when 
scrolling through parts of documents that have more white space and/or 
graphics. This is what originally led me to suspect a problem with character 
rendering.

Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth over a 
text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU effect as scrolling 
top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, January 06, 2012 04:39:07 PM Jerry wrote:
 On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:
  In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak
  to 80% for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it
  takes around 30% (so 15% since I have two processors). My
  processors remain globally inactive at 60% even if I am
  compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening music
  in iTunes.
 
 I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when
 scrolling text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of
 documents), and is less when scrolling through parts of documents
 that have more white space and/or graphics. This is what
 originally led me to suspect a problem with character rendering.
 
 Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth
 over a text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU
 effect as scrolling top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f
 
 Jerry

Hi Jerry.

Ubuntu 11.04, LyX 2.0.0, a 108K word doc, mostly text, gkrellm to 
measure CPU. By continually dragging the vertical scrollbar up and 
down very rapidly (twice to three times per second) I was able to get 
up to 80% CPU on one core and 70% on the other. Within 1 second of 
stopping dragging, the CPUs went back to their quiescent state, which 
was about 15% to 25%.

SteveT

* My new 99 cent Kindle book  :  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006QTBLA2 *
* Steve Litt  :  http://www.troubleshooters.com  *

.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 05.01.2012 19:14, André Pönitz wrote:

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 09:28:58AM +0100, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.


I did not see significant changes with or without this line.


Out of curiosity: Can you try the same with \use_pixmap_cache false ?

Andre'



Hi,

I think I should refine my previous statement. I mean that we are 
entering into the subjective changes:


When I drag the scrollbar down on the introduction manual
- 2.0.1 is full scrooling smoothly (*), both in the text scrolling and 
the toolbar scrolling.
- 2.0.2 pristine jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of 
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.

* Adding \use_pixmap_cache and setting to false or true has no effect
	* Adding  \force_paint_single_char, set to false has a slight effect, 
like there are now 5-6 steps and there are sometimes 1-2 areas where it 
scrolls smoothly on a few lines. So I'd say subjectively this setting 
removes 10%-20% of the regression.


Note that the issue is still present if scrolling up back to the top 
then down again (IOW it's not a 1 time effect)


For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50% 
CPU in all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing 
with 2.0.1 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was 
scrolling on smaller areas ...).


Best regards,

Olivier

(*) If you look closely, the scrollbar sometimes may jump a 2-pixel step 
with 2.0.1, but you really don't perceive that as a jump. The 2.0.2 
jumps can be like a 1 second freeze of the scroolbar and text (the mouse 
cursor moving smoothly), then jumps several hundreds pixels down.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

 For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50% CPU in 
 all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing with 2.0.1 
 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was scrolling on smaller 
 areas ...).
 
 Best regards,
 
 Olivier

50% = 1 processor out of two? I have a two-processor Mac and scrolling takes 
100% of one processor.
Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80%
for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so
15% since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at
60% even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening
music in iTunes.

2012/1/6 Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net


 On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

  For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50%
 CPU in all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing
 with 2.0.1 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was scrolling
 on smaller areas ...).
 
  Best regards,
 
  Olivier

 50% = 1 processor out of two? I have a two-processor Mac and scrolling
 takes 100% of one processor.
 Jerry




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 06/01/2012 09:47, Olivier Ripoll a écrit :

- 2.0.2 pristine jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.
* Adding \use_pixmap_cache and setting to false or true has no effect
* Adding  \force_paint_single_char, set to false has a slight effect,


Note that \use_pixmap_cache is not supported in 2.0.2, only in trunk 
(2.1.0svn) for now.


JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[Abdelrazak Younes]

On 06/01/2012 12:02, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 06/01/2012 09:47, Olivier Ripoll a écrit :

- 2.0.2 pristine jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.
* Adding \use_pixmap_cache and setting to false or true has no effect
* Adding  \force_paint_single_char, set to false has a slight effect,


Note that \use_pixmap_cache is not supported in 2.0.2, only in trunk
(2.1.0svn) for now.


You are mixing up \use_qimage and \use_pixmap_cache. \use_pixmap_cache 
is an old setting that I created to speed up text rendering on MAC. But 
apparently MAC users cannot bare the on screen side effect so we can get 
rid of this in trunk maybe.


Abdel.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 06/01/2012 21:12, Abdelrazak Younes a écrit :

You are mixing up \use_qimage and \use_pixmap_cache. \use_pixmap_cache
is an old setting that I created to speed up text rendering on MAC. But
apparently MAC users cannot bare the on screen side effect so we can get
rid of this in trunk maybe.


Oops. I stand corrected.

JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

 In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80% for 
 very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so 15% 
 since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at 60% 
 even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening music 
 in iTunes. 

I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when scrolling 
text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of documents), and is less when 
scrolling through parts of documents that have more white space and/or 
graphics. This is what originally led me to suspect a problem with character 
rendering.

Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth over a 
text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU effect as scrolling 
top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, January 06, 2012 04:39:07 PM Jerry wrote:
 On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:
  In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak
  to 80% for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it
  takes around 30% (so 15% since I have two processors). My
  processors remain globally inactive at 60% even if I am
  compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening music
  in iTunes.
 
 I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when
 scrolling text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of
 documents), and is less when scrolling through parts of documents
 that have more white space and/or graphics. This is what
 originally led me to suspect a problem with character rendering.
 
 Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth
 over a text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU
 effect as scrolling top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f
 
 Jerry

Hi Jerry.

Ubuntu 11.04, LyX 2.0.0, a 108K word doc, mostly text, gkrellm to 
measure CPU. By continually dragging the vertical scrollbar up and 
down very rapidly (twice to three times per second) I was able to get 
up to 80% CPU on one core and 70% on the other. Within 1 second of 
stopping dragging, the CPUs went back to their quiescent state, which 
was about 15% to 25%.

SteveT

* My new 99 cent Kindle book  :  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006QTBLA2 *
* Steve Litt  :  http://www.troubleshooters.com  *

.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 05.01.2012 19:14, André Pönitz wrote:

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 09:28:58AM +0100, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file "~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences".
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.


I did not see significant changes with or without this line.


Out of curiosity: Can you try the same with "\use_pixmap_cache false" ?

Andre'



Hi,

I think I should refine my previous statement. I mean that we are 
entering into the "subjective" changes:


When I drag the scrollbar down on the "introduction" manual
- 2.0.1 is full scrooling smoothly (*), both in the text scrolling and 
the toolbar scrolling.
- 2.0.2 "pristine" jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of 
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.

* Adding "\use_pixmap_cache" and setting to false or true has no effect
	* Adding " \force_paint_single_char", set to false has a slight effect, 
like there are now 5-6 steps and there are sometimes 1-2 areas where it 
scrolls smoothly on a few lines. So I'd say subjectively this setting 
removes 10%-20% of the regression.


Note that the issue is still present if scrolling up back to the top 
then down again (IOW it's not a 1 time effect)


For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50% 
CPU in all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing 
with 2.0.1 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was 
scrolling on smaller areas ...).


Best regards,

Olivier

(*) If you look closely, the scrollbar sometimes may jump a 2-pixel step 
with 2.0.1, but you really don't perceive that as a "jump". The 2.0.2 
jumps can be like a 1 second freeze of the scroolbar and text (the mouse 
cursor moving smoothly), then jumps several hundreds pixels down.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

> For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50% CPU in 
> all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing with 2.0.1 
> before (perhaps I was using another document and I was scrolling on smaller 
> areas ...).
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Olivier

50% = 1 processor out of two? I have a two-processor Mac and scrolling takes 
100% of one processor.
Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80%
for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so
15% since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at
60% even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening
music in iTunes.

2012/1/6 Jerry 

>
> On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
>
> > For the sake of completness, I have to say I now notice LyX taking 50%
> CPU in all versions while scrolling fast, with I did not remember seeing
> with 2.0.1 before (perhaps I was using another document and I was scrolling
> on smaller areas ...).
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Olivier
>
> 50% = 1 processor out of two? I have a two-processor Mac and scrolling
> takes 100% of one processor.
> Jerry
>
>


-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 06/01/2012 09:47, Olivier Ripoll a écrit :

- 2.0.2 "pristine" jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.
* Adding "\use_pixmap_cache" and setting to false or true has no effect
* Adding " \force_paint_single_char", set to false has a slight effect,


Note that \use_pixmap_cache is not supported in 2.0.2, only in trunk 
(2.1.0svn) for now.


JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[Abdelrazak Younes]

On 06/01/2012 12:02, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 06/01/2012 09:47, Olivier Ripoll a écrit :

- 2.0.2 "pristine" jumps in 2 to 3 steps (text and scrollbar): top of
the document, sometimes an intermediate step, and bottom of the document.
* Adding "\use_pixmap_cache" and setting to false or true has no effect
* Adding " \force_paint_single_char", set to false has a slight effect,


Note that \use_pixmap_cache is not supported in 2.0.2, only in trunk
(2.1.0svn) for now.


You are mixing up \use_qimage and \use_pixmap_cache. \use_pixmap_cache 
is an old setting that I created to speed up text rendering on MAC. But 
apparently MAC users cannot bare the on screen side effect so we can get 
rid of this in trunk maybe.


Abdel.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 06/01/2012 21:12, Abdelrazak Younes a écrit :

You are mixing up \use_qimage and \use_pixmap_cache. \use_pixmap_cache
is an old setting that I created to speed up text rendering on MAC. But
apparently MAC users cannot bare the on screen side effect so we can get
rid of this in trunk maybe.


Oops. I stand corrected.

JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

> In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak to 80% for 
> very short moments, but the rest of the time, it takes around 30% (so 15% 
> since I have two processors). My processors remain globally inactive at 60% 
> even if I am compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening music 
> in iTunes. 

I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when scrolling 
text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of documents), and is less when 
scrolling through parts of documents that have more white space and/or 
graphics. This is what originally led me to suspect a problem with character 
rendering.

Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth over a 
text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU effect as scrolling 
top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, January 06, 2012 04:39:07 PM Jerry wrote:
> On Jan 6, 2012, at 3:29 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:
> > In my case, scrolling the User Guide, I can see Lyx 2.0.2 to peak
> > to 80% for very short moments, but the rest of the time, it
> > takes around 30% (so 15% since I have two processors). My
> > processors remain globally inactive at 60% even if I am
> > compiling Wine in MacPorts in the same time and listening music
> > in iTunes.
> 
> I have found that CPU usage increases (to 100% of a processor) when
> scrolling text-heavy documents or (or text-heavy parts of
> documents), and is less when scrolling through parts of documents
> that have more white space and/or graphics. This is what
> originally led me to suspect a problem with character rendering.
> 
> Can you monitor CPU usage while rapidly scrolling back-and-forth
> over a text-heavy document? I suppose that would have the same CPU
> effect as scrolling top-to-bottom of an all-text document.f
> 
> Jerry

Hi Jerry.

Ubuntu 11.04, LyX 2.0.0, a 108K word doc, mostly text, gkrellm to 
measure CPU. By continually dragging the vertical scrollbar up and 
down very rapidly (twice to three times per second) I was able to get 
up to 80% CPU on one core and 70% on the other. Within 1 second of 
stopping dragging, the CPUs went back to their quiescent state, which 
was about 15% to 25%.

SteveT

* My new 99 cent Kindle book  :  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006QTBLA2 *
* Steve Litt  :  http://www.troubleshooters.com  *

.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:


On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:

[...]


FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
(binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.

I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
there were no problems with that either.

So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?


No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
Jerry


James




If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of slow 
scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.


BR,

O.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 04.01.2012 10:03, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

On 03.01.2012 21:36, Stephan Witt wrote:

Am 03.01.2012 um 17:15 schrieb Olivier Ripoll:

[...]


Hi,

I'm almost sure it depends on Qt-Version.


IIRC, I checked the file properties of QtCore4 and QtGUI4 dlls and both
files were version 4.7.4.0 in LyX 2.0.1 and 2.0.2.
But perhaps my memories are confused there.


I double-checked, same Qt version is used on the 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 windows 
binaries.


[...]


To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.


I did not see significant changes with or without this line.

[...]

Best regards,

O.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

 On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
 [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
 small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
 there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?
 
 No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
 Jerry
 
 James
 
 
 If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of slow 
 scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.
 
 BR,
 
 O.
 
Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on multiple 
versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where the problem got worse 
with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't some versions 
of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so, maybe somehow there is less 
chance to mess things up since it would then be the native engine for those 
systems.

For those who have reported no problems I would respectfully submit that your 
perception is different than that of others and/or your tolerance for interface 
idiosyncrasies is better or you have lower expectations. For anyone who cares 
to compare and who doesn't think their (OS X) box has a problem, simply open 
any PDF into Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file in TextEdit 
and flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or whatever equivalent 
you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX file. You should see a 
world of difference. Personally, the two-finger swipe to scroll is totally 
addictive and so effective that often I use that as a shortcut to go all the 
way to the top or bottom of a document instead of using other means.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Jerry wrote:

 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:
 
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig
 
 The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
 
 Qt for Mac OS X
 ---
 - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
 - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
 - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
 - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
 [QTBUG-17728]
 - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).
 
 Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?
 
 Stephan
 
 10.6.8, 2.1svn
 Scrolling User's Guide takes 13 seconds.
 No misplaced cursor.
 
 This scroll rate is between what I measured for 2.0.0 and 2.0.2 using the 
 special preference file line.
 
 Subjectively, for me, the somewhat slower difference for 2.1svn puts the 
 experience back into painful regime, but it is still better than 2.0.2 
 without the special preference file line.
 
 Jerry

After adding \force_paint_single_char false to the preferences file for 2.1svn:
Scrolling User's Guide takes 9 seconds on first pass, 7-8 seconds for 
subsequent passes.
The cursor is misplaced on long line of m's.

Another artifact with these conditions appears: when click-dragging over text 
to select it, _some_ letters at and to the right of the position of the cursor 
will jump a few pixels left and right as the cursor passes over them. Doing 
this over a long line of m's is especially fun. It's as though characters under 
the selection color are being drawn with a different metric than the ones that 
have not been selected yet.

Normal scrolling (trackpad, thumb bar) is noticeably better than any of the 
other results I have reported. But the cursor problem is present now.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 05/01/12 09:41, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
 
 On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
 [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with
 LyX 2.0.2 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has
 occurred for me with small documents as well as large ones.
 Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and
 LyX 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on
 10.6.8 and there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX
 10.7.x?
 
 No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8. Jerry
 
 James
 
 
 If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of
 slow scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also
 on Windows 7.
 
 BR,
 
 O.
 
 Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on
 multiple versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where
 the problem got worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.
 
 I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't
 some versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so,
 maybe somehow there is less chance to mess things up since it would
 then be the native engine for those systems.

Slow scrolling and skipping are subjective - maybe the problem does
exist under Linux, b ut the Linux users are more tolerant :-) (I use
Linux...)

But seriously: to really evaluate this, one would possibly need screen
recordings of the actual scrolling and one person can evaluate them.
Or installation of the OS in a virtual machine, and then checking (but
this would not be representative for all systems).

So I guess a howto to record the actual scrolling on screen and a
website where this can be posted, should help.

Cheers,

Rainer

 
 For those who have reported no problems I would respectfully
 submit that your perception is different than that of others and/or
 your tolerance for interface idiosyncrasies is better or you have
 lower expectations. For anyone who cares to compare and who doesn't
 think their (OS X) box has a problem, simply open any PDF into
 Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file in TextEdit and
 flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or whatever
 equivalent you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX
 file. You should see a world of difference. Personally, the
 two-finger swipe to scroll is totally addictive and so effective
 that often I use that as a shortcut to go all the way to the top or
 bottom of a document instead of using other means.
 
 Jerry


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk8FacwACgkQoYgNqgF2egq75ACfbq59XXDko3cKWkkeeVwaCF1h
IGYAn0+5y2QgpoSnRYD7cCS6AplIxIbA
=R2cU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 05.01.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Jerry:

 
 On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
 
 On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
 [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
 small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
 there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?
 
 No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
 Jerry
 
 James
 
 
 If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of slow 
 scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.
 
 BR,
 
 O.
 
 Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on multiple 
 versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where the problem got 
 worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

Interesting indeed.

 I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't some 
 versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so, maybe somehow 
 there is less chance to mess things up since it would then be the native 
 engine for those systems.

It's LyX using Qt as its 'native GUI engine' - on all platforms. Of course the 
layers below Qt is different.

 For those who have reported no problems I would respectfully submit that 
 your perception is different than that of others and/or your tolerance for 
 interface idiosyncrasies is better or you have lower expectations. For anyone 
 who cares to compare and who doesn't think their (OS X) box has a problem, 
 simply open any PDF into Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file 
 in TextEdit and flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or 
 whatever equivalent you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX file. 
 You should see a world of difference. Personally, the two-finger swipe to 
 scroll is totally addictive and so effective that often I use that as a 
 shortcut to go all the way to the top or bottom of a document instead of 
 using other means.

I tried this now:
* start LyX 2.0.2 from distribution disk image
* open LyX users guide (english) and maximize it
* start PDF view (in Preview)
* scroll from top to bottom with two-finger swipe in Preview - at least 12..14 
seconds
* scroll from top to bottom with two-finger swipe in LyX window - 8..10 seconds

I have to admit it looks more smooth with Preview. But I'd rate LyX feeling not 
that bad.

Stephan

PS. Numbers are taken by looking at the clock at the right corner of the menu 
bar.
Perhaps not that exact...

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 05.01.2012 um 10:02 schrieb Jerry:

 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Jerry wrote:
 
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:
 
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig
 
 The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
 
 Qt for Mac OS X
 ---
 - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
 - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
 - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
 - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
 [QTBUG-17728]
 - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).
 
 Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?
 
 Stephan
 
 10.6.8, 2.1svn
 Scrolling User's Guide takes 13 seconds.
 No misplaced cursor.
 
 This scroll rate is between what I measured for 2.0.0 and 2.0.2 using the 
 special preference file line.
 
 Subjectively, for me, the somewhat slower difference for 2.1svn puts the 
 experience back into painful regime, but it is still better than 2.0.2 
 without the special preference file line.
 
 Jerry
 
 After adding \force_paint_single_char false to the preferences file for 
 2.1svn:
 Scrolling User's Guide takes 9 seconds on first pass, 7-8 seconds for 
 subsequent passes.
 The cursor is misplaced on long line of m's.
 
 Another artifact with these conditions appears: when click-dragging over text 
 to select it, _some_ letters at and to the right of the position of the 
 cursor will jump a few pixels left and right as the cursor passes over them. 
 Doing this over a long line of m's is especially fun. It's as though 
 characters under the selection color are being drawn with a different metric 
 than the ones that have not been selected yet.
 
 Normal scrolling (trackpad, thumb bar) is noticeably better than any of the 
 other results I have reported. But the cursor problem is present now.

Thank you for doing this job. So, at least there is some hope :)

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 05.01.2012 10:13, Rainer M Krug wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

[...]





If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of
slow scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also
on Windows 7.

BR,

O.


Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on
multiple versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where
the problem got worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't
some versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so,
maybe somehow there is less chance to mess things up since it would
then be the native engine for those systems.


Slow scrolling and skipping are subjective - maybe the problem does
exist under Linux, b ut the Linux users are more tolerant :-) (I use
Linux...)


Hi,

Somehow subjective: skipping versus no skipping is objective. :-)

Also, high CPU usage (seen by Jerry and I) is objective, as you can see 
it in the task manager, measured by the OS. Not to mention the fan 
speeding up.


Best regards,

O.



But seriously: to really evaluate this, one would possibly need screen
recordings of the actual scrolling and one person can evaluate them.
Or installation of the OS in a virtual machine, and then checking (but
this would not be representative for all systems).

So I guess a howto to record the actual scrolling on screen and a
website where this can be posted, should help.

Cheers,

Rainer

Re: Slow scrolling

[André Pönitz]

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 09:28:58AM +0100, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 Will try this when I have some time.
 
 I did not see significant changes with or without this line.

Out of curiosity: Can you try the same with \use_pixmap_cache false ?

Andre'

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:


On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:

[...]


FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
(binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.

I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
there were no problems with that either.

So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?


No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
Jerry


James




If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of slow 
scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.


BR,

O.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 04.01.2012 10:03, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

On 03.01.2012 21:36, Stephan Witt wrote:

Am 03.01.2012 um 17:15 schrieb Olivier Ripoll:

[...]


Hi,

I'm almost sure it depends on Qt-Version.


IIRC, I checked the file properties of QtCore4 and QtGUI4 dlls and both
files were version 4.7.4.0 in LyX 2.0.1 and 2.0.2.
But perhaps my memories are confused there.


I double-checked, same Qt version is used on the 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 windows 
binaries.


[...]


To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.


I did not see significant changes with or without this line.

[...]

Best regards,

O.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

 On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
 [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
 small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
 there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?
 
 No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
 Jerry
 
 James
 
 
 If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of slow 
 scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.
 
 BR,
 
 O.
 
Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on multiple 
versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where the problem got worse 
with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't some versions 
of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so, maybe somehow there is less 
chance to mess things up since it would then be the native engine for those 
systems.

For those who have reported no problems I would respectfully submit that your 
perception is different than that of others and/or your tolerance for interface 
idiosyncrasies is better or you have lower expectations. For anyone who cares 
to compare and who doesn't think their (OS X) box has a problem, simply open 
any PDF into Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file in TextEdit 
and flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or whatever equivalent 
you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX file. You should see a 
world of difference. Personally, the two-finger swipe to scroll is totally 
addictive and so effective that often I use that as a shortcut to go all the 
way to the top or bottom of a document instead of using other means.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Jerry wrote:

 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:
 
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig
 
 The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
 
 Qt for Mac OS X
 ---
 - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
 - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
 - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
 - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
 [QTBUG-17728]
 - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).
 
 Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?
 
 Stephan
 
 10.6.8, 2.1svn
 Scrolling User's Guide takes 13 seconds.
 No misplaced cursor.
 
 This scroll rate is between what I measured for 2.0.0 and 2.0.2 using the 
 special preference file line.
 
 Subjectively, for me, the somewhat slower difference for 2.1svn puts the 
 experience back into painful regime, but it is still better than 2.0.2 
 without the special preference file line.
 
 Jerry

After adding \force_paint_single_char false to the preferences file for 2.1svn:
Scrolling User's Guide takes 9 seconds on first pass, 7-8 seconds for 
subsequent passes.
The cursor is misplaced on long line of m's.

Another artifact with these conditions appears: when click-dragging over text 
to select it, _some_ letters at and to the right of the position of the cursor 
will jump a few pixels left and right as the cursor passes over them. Doing 
this over a long line of m's is especially fun. It's as though characters under 
the selection color are being drawn with a different metric than the ones that 
have not been selected yet.

Normal scrolling (trackpad, thumb bar) is noticeably better than any of the 
other results I have reported. But the cursor problem is present now.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 05/01/12 09:41, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
 
 On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
 [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with
 LyX 2.0.2 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has
 occurred for me with small documents as well as large ones.
 Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and
 LyX 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on
 10.6.8 and there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX
 10.7.x?
 
 No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8. Jerry
 
 James
 
 
 If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of
 slow scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also
 on Windows 7.
 
 BR,
 
 O.
 
 Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on
 multiple versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where
 the problem got worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.
 
 I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't
 some versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so,
 maybe somehow there is less chance to mess things up since it would
 then be the native engine for those systems.

Slow scrolling and skipping are subjective - maybe the problem does
exist under Linux, b ut the Linux users are more tolerant :-) (I use
Linux...)

But seriously: to really evaluate this, one would possibly need screen
recordings of the actual scrolling and one person can evaluate them.
Or installation of the OS in a virtual machine, and then checking (but
this would not be representative for all systems).

So I guess a howto to record the actual scrolling on screen and a
website where this can be posted, should help.

Cheers,

Rainer

 
 For those who have reported no problems I would respectfully
 submit that your perception is different than that of others and/or
 your tolerance for interface idiosyncrasies is better or you have
 lower expectations. For anyone who cares to compare and who doesn't
 think their (OS X) box has a problem, simply open any PDF into
 Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file in TextEdit and
 flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or whatever
 equivalent you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX
 file. You should see a world of difference. Personally, the
 two-finger swipe to scroll is totally addictive and so effective
 that often I use that as a shortcut to go all the way to the top or
 bottom of a document instead of using other means.
 
 Jerry


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk8FacwACgkQoYgNqgF2egq75ACfbq59XXDko3cKWkkeeVwaCF1h
IGYAn0+5y2QgpoSnRYD7cCS6AplIxIbA
=R2cU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 05.01.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Jerry:

 
 On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
 
 On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
 [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
 small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
 there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?
 
 No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
 Jerry
 
 James
 
 
 If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of slow 
 scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.
 
 BR,
 
 O.
 
 Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on multiple 
 versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where the problem got 
 worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

Interesting indeed.

 I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't some 
 versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so, maybe somehow 
 there is less chance to mess things up since it would then be the native 
 engine for those systems.

It's LyX using Qt as its 'native GUI engine' - on all platforms. Of course the 
layers below Qt is different.

 For those who have reported no problems I would respectfully submit that 
 your perception is different than that of others and/or your tolerance for 
 interface idiosyncrasies is better or you have lower expectations. For anyone 
 who cares to compare and who doesn't think their (OS X) box has a problem, 
 simply open any PDF into Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file 
 in TextEdit and flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or 
 whatever equivalent you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX file. 
 You should see a world of difference. Personally, the two-finger swipe to 
 scroll is totally addictive and so effective that often I use that as a 
 shortcut to go all the way to the top or bottom of a document instead of 
 using other means.

I tried this now:
* start LyX 2.0.2 from distribution disk image
* open LyX users guide (english) and maximize it
* start PDF view (in Preview)
* scroll from top to bottom with two-finger swipe in Preview - at least 12..14 
seconds
* scroll from top to bottom with two-finger swipe in LyX window - 8..10 seconds

I have to admit it looks more smooth with Preview. But I'd rate LyX feeling not 
that bad.

Stephan

PS. Numbers are taken by looking at the clock at the right corner of the menu 
bar.
Perhaps not that exact...

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 05.01.2012 um 10:02 schrieb Jerry:

 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Jerry wrote:
 
 
 On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:
 
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig
 
 The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
 
 Qt for Mac OS X
 ---
 - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
 - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
 - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
 - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
 [QTBUG-17728]
 - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).
 
 Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?
 
 Stephan
 
 10.6.8, 2.1svn
 Scrolling User's Guide takes 13 seconds.
 No misplaced cursor.
 
 This scroll rate is between what I measured for 2.0.0 and 2.0.2 using the 
 special preference file line.
 
 Subjectively, for me, the somewhat slower difference for 2.1svn puts the 
 experience back into painful regime, but it is still better than 2.0.2 
 without the special preference file line.
 
 Jerry
 
 After adding \force_paint_single_char false to the preferences file for 
 2.1svn:
 Scrolling User's Guide takes 9 seconds on first pass, 7-8 seconds for 
 subsequent passes.
 The cursor is misplaced on long line of m's.
 
 Another artifact with these conditions appears: when click-dragging over text 
 to select it, _some_ letters at and to the right of the position of the 
 cursor will jump a few pixels left and right as the cursor passes over them. 
 Doing this over a long line of m's is especially fun. It's as though 
 characters under the selection color are being drawn with a different metric 
 than the ones that have not been selected yet.
 
 Normal scrolling (trackpad, thumb bar) is noticeably better than any of the 
 other results I have reported. But the cursor problem is present now.

Thank you for doing this job. So, at least there is some hope :)

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 05.01.2012 10:13, Rainer M Krug wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

[...]





If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of
slow scrolling can cover different behaviours), it happens also
on Windows 7.

BR,

O.


Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on
multiple versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where
the problem got worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't
some versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so,
maybe somehow there is less chance to mess things up since it would
then be the native engine for those systems.


Slow scrolling and skipping are subjective - maybe the problem does
exist under Linux, b ut the Linux users are more tolerant :-) (I use
Linux...)


Hi,

Somehow subjective: skipping versus no skipping is objective. :-)

Also, high CPU usage (seen by Jerry and I) is objective, as you can see 
it in the task manager, measured by the OS. Not to mention the fan 
speeding up.


Best regards,

O.



But seriously: to really evaluate this, one would possibly need screen
recordings of the actual scrolling and one person can evaluate them.
Or installation of the OS in a virtual machine, and then checking (but
this would not be representative for all systems).

So I guess a howto to record the actual scrolling on screen and a
website where this can be posted, should help.

Cheers,

Rainer

Re: Slow scrolling

[André Pönitz]

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 09:28:58AM +0100, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 Will try this when I have some time.
 
 I did not see significant changes with or without this line.

Out of curiosity: Can you try the same with \use_pixmap_cache false ?

Andre'

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:


On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:

[...]


FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
(binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.

I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
there were no problems with that either.

So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?


No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
Jerry


James




If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of "slow 
scrolling" can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.


BR,

O.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 04.01.2012 10:03, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

On 03.01.2012 21:36, Stephan Witt wrote:

Am 03.01.2012 um 17:15 schrieb Olivier Ripoll:

[...]


Hi,

I'm almost sure it depends on Qt-Version.


IIRC, I checked the file properties of QtCore4 and QtGUI4 dlls and both
files were version 4.7.4.0 in LyX 2.0.1 and 2.0.2.
But perhaps my memories are confused there.


I double-checked, same Qt version is used on the 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 windows 
binaries.


[...]


To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file "~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences".
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.


I did not see significant changes with or without this line.

[...]

Best regards,

O.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:

> On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
> [...]
>>> 
>>> FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
>>> (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
>>> small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
>>> 
>>> I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
>>> 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
>>> there were no problems with that either.
>>> 
>>> So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?
>> 
>> No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
>> Jerry
>>> 
>>> James
>> 
> 
> If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of "slow 
> scrolling" can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.
> 
> BR,
> 
> O.
> 
Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on multiple 
versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where the problem got worse 
with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't some versions 
of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so, maybe somehow there is less 
chance to mess things up since it would then be the native engine for those 
systems.

For those who have reported "no problems" I would respectfully submit that your 
perception is different than that of others and/or your tolerance for interface 
idiosyncrasies is better or you have lower expectations. For anyone who cares 
to compare and who doesn't think their (OS X) box has a problem, simply open 
any PDF into Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file in TextEdit 
and flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or whatever equivalent 
you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX file. You should see a 
world of difference. Personally, the two-finger swipe to scroll is totally 
addictive and so effective that often I use that as a shortcut to go all the 
way to the top or bottom of a document instead of using other means.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Jerry wrote:

> 
> On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
> 
>> I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:
>> 
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig
>> 
>> The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
>> 
>> Qt for Mac OS X
>> ---
>> - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
>> - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
>> - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
>> - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
>> [QTBUG-17728]
>> - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).
>> 
>> Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?
>> 
>> Stephan
> 
> 10.6.8, 2.1svn
> Scrolling User's Guide takes 13 seconds.
> No misplaced cursor.
> 
> This scroll rate is between what I measured for 2.0.0 and 2.0.2 using the 
> special preference file line.
> 
> Subjectively, for me, the somewhat slower difference for 2.1svn puts the 
> experience back into "painful" regime, but it is still better than 2.0.2 
> without the special preference file line.
> 
> Jerry

After adding \force_paint_single_char false to the preferences file for 2.1svn:
Scrolling User's Guide takes 9 seconds on first pass, 7-8 seconds for 
subsequent passes.
The cursor is misplaced on long line of m's.

Another artifact with these conditions appears: when click-dragging over text 
to select it, _some_ letters at and to the right of the position of the cursor 
will jump a few pixels left and right as the cursor passes over them. Doing 
this over a long line of m's is especially fun. It's as though characters under 
the selection color are being drawn with a different metric than the ones that 
have not been selected yet.

Normal scrolling (trackpad, thumb bar) is noticeably better than any of the 
other results I have reported. But the cursor problem is present now.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 05/01/12 09:41, Jerry wrote:
> 
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
> 
>> On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
>> [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with
 LyX 2.0.2 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has
 occurred for me with small documents as well as large ones.
 Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and
 LyX 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on
 10.6.8 and there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX
 10.7.x?
>>> 
>>> No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8. Jerry
 
 James
>>> 
>> 
>> If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of
>> "slow scrolling" can cover different behaviours), it happens also
>> on Windows 7.
>> 
>> BR,
>> 
>> O.
>> 
> Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on
> multiple versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where
> the problem got worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.
> 
> I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't
> some versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so,
> maybe somehow there is less chance to mess things up since it would
> then be the native engine for those systems.

Slow scrolling and skipping are subjective - maybe the problem does
exist under Linux, b ut the Linux users are more tolerant :-) (I use
Linux...)

But seriously: to really evaluate this, one would possibly need screen
recordings of the actual scrolling and one person can evaluate them.
Or installation of the OS in a virtual machine, and then checking (but
this would not be representative for all systems).

So I guess a "howto" to record the actual scrolling on screen and a
website where this can be posted, should help.

Cheers,

Rainer

> 
> For those who have reported "no problems" I would respectfully
> submit that your perception is different than that of others and/or
> your tolerance for interface idiosyncrasies is better or you have
> lower expectations. For anyone who cares to compare and who doesn't
> think their (OS X) box has a problem, simply open any PDF into
> Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file in TextEdit and
> flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or whatever
> equivalent you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX
> file. You should see a world of difference. Personally, the
> two-finger swipe to scroll is totally addictive and so effective
> that often I use that as a shortcut to go all the way to the top or
> bottom of a document instead of using other means.
> 
> Jerry


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk8FacwACgkQoYgNqgF2egq75ACfbq59XXDko3cKWkkeeVwaCF1h
IGYAn0+5y2QgpoSnRYD7cCS6AplIxIbA
=R2cU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 05.01.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Jerry:

> 
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 1:26 AM, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
> 
>> On 04.01.2012 22:39, Jerry wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:
>> [...]
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
 small documents as well as large ones. Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX
 2.0.0. No problems there. I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and
 there were no problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?
>>> 
>>> No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
>>> Jerry
 
 James
>>> 
>> 
>> If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of "slow 
>> scrolling" can cover different behaviours), it happens also on Windows 7.
>> 
>> BR,
>> 
>> O.
>> 
> Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on multiple 
> versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where the problem got 
> worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

Interesting indeed.

> I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't some 
> versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so, maybe somehow 
> there is less chance to mess things up since it would then be the native 
> engine for those systems.

It's LyX using Qt as its 'native GUI engine' - on all platforms. Of course the 
layers below Qt is different.

> For those who have reported "no problems" I would respectfully submit that 
> your perception is different than that of others and/or your tolerance for 
> interface idiosyncrasies is better or you have lower expectations. For anyone 
> who cares to compare and who doesn't think their (OS X) box has a problem, 
> simply open any PDF into Preview or Skim or any significantly long text file 
> in TextEdit and flick through it with the two-finger trackpad swipe or 
> whatever equivalent you have with a mouse, then try the same with a LyX file. 
> You should see a world of difference. Personally, the two-finger swipe to 
> scroll is totally addictive and so effective that often I use that as a 
> shortcut to go all the way to the top or bottom of a document instead of 
> using other means.

I tried this now:
* start LyX 2.0.2 from distribution disk image
* open LyX users guide (english) and maximize it
* start PDF view (in Preview)
* scroll from top to bottom with two-finger swipe in Preview - at least 12..14 
seconds
* scroll from top to bottom with two-finger swipe in LyX window - 8..10 seconds

I have to admit it looks more smooth with Preview. But I'd rate LyX feeling not 
that bad.

Stephan

PS. Numbers are taken by looking at the clock at the right corner of the menu 
bar.
Perhaps not that exact...

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 05.01.2012 um 10:02 schrieb Jerry:

> 
> On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:13 PM, Jerry wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
>> 
>>> I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:
>>> 
>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig
>>> 
>>> The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
>>> 
>>> Qt for Mac OS X
>>> ---
>>> - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
>>> - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
>>> - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
>>> - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
>>> [QTBUG-17728]
>>> - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).
>>> 
>>> Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?
>>> 
>>> Stephan
>> 
>> 10.6.8, 2.1svn
>> Scrolling User's Guide takes 13 seconds.
>> No misplaced cursor.
>> 
>> This scroll rate is between what I measured for 2.0.0 and 2.0.2 using the 
>> special preference file line.
>> 
>> Subjectively, for me, the somewhat slower difference for 2.1svn puts the 
>> experience back into "painful" regime, but it is still better than 2.0.2 
>> without the special preference file line.
>> 
>> Jerry
> 
> After adding \force_paint_single_char false to the preferences file for 
> 2.1svn:
> Scrolling User's Guide takes 9 seconds on first pass, 7-8 seconds for 
> subsequent passes.
> The cursor is misplaced on long line of m's.
> 
> Another artifact with these conditions appears: when click-dragging over text 
> to select it, _some_ letters at and to the right of the position of the 
> cursor will jump a few pixels left and right as the cursor passes over them. 
> Doing this over a long line of m's is especially fun. It's as though 
> characters under the selection color are being drawn with a different metric 
> than the ones that have not been selected yet.
> 
> Normal scrolling (trackpad, thumb bar) is noticeably better than any of the 
> other results I have reported. But the cursor problem is present now.

Thank you for doing this job. So, at least there is some hope :)

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 05.01.2012 10:13, Rainer M Krug wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-

[...]





If the issue I reported is the same (it seems the definition of
"slow scrolling" can cover different behaviours), it happens also
on Windows 7.

BR,

O.


Interesting. So now we have reports of slow scrolling problems on
multiple versions of OS X and multiple versions of Windows, where
the problem got worse with 2.0.2 relative to 2.0.1.

I don't think we have any reports of problems on Linux yet. Don't
some versions of Linux use Qt as their native GUI engine? If so,
maybe somehow there is less chance to mess things up since it would
then be the native engine for those systems.


Slow scrolling and skipping are subjective - maybe the problem does
exist under Linux, b ut the Linux users are more tolerant :-) (I use
Linux...)


Hi,

"Somehow" subjective: skipping versus no skipping is objective. :-)

Also, high CPU usage (seen by Jerry and I) is objective, as you can see 
it in the task manager, measured by the OS. Not to mention the fan 
speeding up.


Best regards,

O.



But seriously: to really evaluate this, one would possibly need screen
recordings of the actual scrolling and one person can evaluate them.
Or installation of the OS in a virtual machine, and then checking (but
this would not be representative for all systems).

So I guess a "howto" to record the actual scrolling on screen and a
website where this can be posted, should help.

Cheers,

Rainer

Re: Slow scrolling

[André Pönitz]

On Thu, Jan 05, 2012 at 09:28:58AM +0100, Olivier Ripoll wrote:
> >>To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your
> >>preferences file:
> >>\force_paint_single_char false
> >>On a Mac this is the file "~/Library/Application
> >>Support/LyX-2.0/preferences".
> >>(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
> >
> >Will try this when I have some time.
> 
> I did not see significant changes with or without this line.

Out of curiosity: Can you try the same with "\use_pixmap_cache false" ?

Andre'

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 3, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application 
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is improved--much 
 like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I commented on earlier in this 
 thread. And I see no problem with an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor placement at 
 the end of the m-text correct?

Uh-oh. With 2.0.2 on my 15 inch MacBook Pro screen, using Cambria font, screen 
zoom set to 140%, the cursor gets ahead of (to the right of) a screenful of m's 
by about 1.5 cm as measured with an on-screen ruler. If I then make the window 
smaller so that the line wraps, forcing the cursor to near the left edge of the 
window, the error is quite small or none at all, but as I continue to make the 
window even narrower, the error increases until another line wrap, etc.

With 2.0.1, there is no cursor placement error.

Oddly, it no longer matters if the line
\force_paint_single_char false
is in the Preferences file--the behavior is now the same (faster scrolling, 
misplaced cursor) with or without that line.

Jerry
 
 Stephan
 
 PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different settings on my 
 Mac.
 This takes a significant amount of time because of the many builds I have to 
 try.
 

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 03.01.2012 21:36, Stephan Witt wrote:

Am 03.01.2012 um 17:15 schrieb Olivier Ripoll:

[...]


Hi,

I'm almost sure it depends on Qt-Version.


IIRC, I checked the file properties of QtCore4 and QtGUI4 dlls and both 
files were version 4.7.4.0 in LyX 2.0.1 and 2.0.2.

But perhaps my memories are confused there.



With LyX on Mac with Qt4 we have two fundamental problems:
1. Qt4 with Carbon crashes when interacting with some desktop tools like Divvy 
or SizeUp
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7365 and
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7519

2. Qt4 with Cocoa is painting text with kerning hints
This doesn't match with the drawing engine of LyX and LyX's cursor movement.
See the discussion here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org/msg169152.html

I've build 2.0.2 on Mac with Qt4.7 where Cocoa is the default to avoid (1).
The drawback is we have to deal with (2) - the current solution is to draw text 
just char by char,
the text fragments are only one character long.

To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.

Best regards,

Olivier



Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Jerry:

 
 On Jan 3, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application 
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is improved--much 
 like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I commented on earlier in this 
 thread. And I see no problem with an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor placement at 
 the end of the m-text correct?
 
 Uh-oh. With 2.0.2 on my 15 inch MacBook Pro screen, using Cambria font, 
 screen zoom set to 140%, the cursor gets ahead of (to the right of) a 
 screenful of m's by about 1.5 cm as measured with an on-screen ruler. If I 
 then make the window smaller so that the line wraps, forcing the cursor to 
 near the left edge of the window, the error is quite small or none at all, 
 but as I continue to make the window even narrower, the error increases until 
 another line wrap, etc.

This is what I've expected.

 With 2.0.1, there is no cursor placement error.
 
 Oddly, it no longer matters if the line
 \force_paint_single_char false
 is in the Preferences file--the behavior is now the same (faster scrolling, 
 misplaced cursor) with or without that line.

That's correct. The default for this (internal) preference depends on the 
Qt-Version.

Currently I'm looking for the optimal solution... including trying out the 
Qt-4.8.0 library...

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 07:36 schrieb Stephan Witt:

 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application 
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is improved--much 
 like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I commented on earlier in this 
 thread. And I see no problem with an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor placement at 
 the end of the m-text correct?
 
 Stephan
 
 PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different settings on my 
 Mac.
 This takes a significant amount of time because of the many builds I have to 
 try.

And this is the result:
I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.

* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden

All tests I've made with \force_paint_single_char true and false.
No real difference.

You can see it yourself - there is no performance gain or loss on my system 
(Macbook Pro OS X 10.6.8).

Jerry, may I ask you to provide some numbers for your use case and for the 
users guide?

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/01/12 12:44, Stephan Witt wrote:
 Am 04.01.2012 um 07:36 schrieb Stephan Witt:
 
 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following
 line to your preferences file: \force_paint_single_char
 false On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences. (Broken cursor placement for
 long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is
 improved--much like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I
 commented on earlier in this thread. And I see no problem with
 an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor
 placement at the end of the m-text correct?
 
 Stephan
 
 PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different
 settings on my Mac. This takes a significant amount of time
 because of the many builds I have to try.
 
 And this is the result: I've opened the users guide and started to
 page down unto the end once.
 
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23
 Sekunden * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa,
 23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.6.3
 Carbon, 22 Sekunden

Just to add a non-mac number (Ubuntu Oneiric, all updates, LyX self
compiled from source, no tweaks, oldish laptop):

2.0.2, qt 4.8.5  25 seconds

Rainer


 
 All tests I've made with \force_paint_single_char true and false. 
 No real difference.
 
 You can see it yourself - there is no performance gain or loss on
 my system (Macbook Pro OS X 10.6.8).
 
 Jerry, may I ask you to provide some numbers for your use case and
 for the users guide?
 
 Stephan


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk8ER0MACgkQoYgNqgF2egoCgQCdGMm9GkIdVyWdG8kvp9dgxNa9
O1IAn3qQGxsZjA3L2OQ8Ih0U2TYW4mCS
=7Ooh
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Slow scrolling

[Richard Heck]

On 01/04/2012 07:34 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/01/12 12:44, Stephan Witt wrote:

Am 04.01.2012 um 07:36 schrieb Stephan Witt:


Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:

To check if this is the culprit one may add the following
line to your preferences file: \force_paint_single_char
false On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences. (Broken cursor placement for
long lines should be one consequence.)

I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is
improved--much like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I
commented on earlier in this thread. And I see no problem with
an incorrectly placed cursor.

Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor
placement at the end of the m-text correct?

Stephan

PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different
settings on my Mac. This takes a significant amount of time
because of the many builds I have to try.

And this is the result: I've opened the users guide and started to
page down unto the end once.

* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23
Sekunden * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa,
23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.6.3
Carbon, 22 Sekunden

Just to add a non-mac number (Ubuntu Oneiric, all updates, LyX self
compiled from source, no tweaks, oldish laptop):

2.0.2, qt 4.8.5  25 seconds
I get there in about twelve seconds, but this is on a very fast machine. 
There are noticeable pauses as one hits the graphics, but otherwise it 
feels responsive.


Richard

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 04/01/2012 12:44, Stephan Witt a écrit :

And this is the result:
I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.

* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden


Is this with autorepeat? Many repeated events get removed in this case. 
Therefore, I suspect that the result depends on the autorepeat setting 
in the system.


JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[James Sutherland]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net wrote:


 On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

  On Monday, January 02, 2012 10:12:47 PM Jerry wrote:
  I'm evaluating LyX for a major project and am mightily impressed.
 
  However, there is one problem that stands out: Scrolling the main
  LyX window is excruciatingly slow. I'm using LyX 2.0.2 and OS X
  10.6.8. It doesn't seem to matter how I scroll--two-finger swipe
  on MacBook Pro trackpad or using the thumb bar or clicking on the
  normal scrolling arrows. When scrolling rather fast or using the
  two-finger ballistic scrolling, there are large jumps between
  screen updates; sometimes the jump is more than an entire
  screenful so there is little hope of reliably spotting things as
  they go by. While scrolling, processor usage goes to 100%
 

 Hmmm. I suspect that the problem is worse on my machine because even
 scrolling small amounts (a few lines or a couple of pages) is so
 laggy/jumpy that it is easily noticeable/annoying--hard to track features
 as they go by.

 Scrolling large distances in a short time pretty much takes place as fast
 as scrolling a native application; it's just that to get the job done in
 roughly the same amount of time, there are huge jumps.

 In an earlier post in this thread I noted that 2.0.1 was much better in
 this regard (I just tried 2.0.1 a couple hours ago), so at least in part,
 this is looks like a recent development.

 Jerry



FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
(binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with small
documents as well as large ones.  Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.

I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX 2.0.0.  No
problems there.  I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and there were no
problems with that either.

So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?

James

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Strange indeed,
On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down (two
finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to its
end in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org
(LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).

Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?

(*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.

2012/1/4 James Sutherland james.sutherl...@utah.edu

 On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net wrote:


 On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

  On Monday, January 02, 2012 10:12:47 PM Jerry wrote:
  I'm evaluating LyX for a major project and am mightily impressed.
 
  However, there is one problem that stands out: Scrolling the main
  LyX window is excruciatingly slow. I'm using LyX 2.0.2 and OS X
  10.6.8. It doesn't seem to matter how I scroll--two-finger swipe
  on MacBook Pro trackpad or using the thumb bar or clicking on the
  normal scrolling arrows. When scrolling rather fast or using the
  two-finger ballistic scrolling, there are large jumps between
  screen updates; sometimes the jump is more than an entire
  screenful so there is little hope of reliably spotting things as
  they go by. While scrolling, processor usage goes to 100%
 

 Hmmm. I suspect that the problem is worse on my machine because even
 scrolling small amounts (a few lines or a couple of pages) is so
 laggy/jumpy that it is easily noticeable/annoying--hard to track features
 as they go by.

 Scrolling large distances in a short time pretty much takes place as fast
 as scrolling a native application; it's just that to get the job done in
 roughly the same amount of time, there are huge jumps.

 In an earlier post in this thread I noted that 2.0.1 was much better in
 this regard (I just tried 2.0.1 a couple hours ago), so at least in part,
 this is looks like a recent development.

 Jerry



 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
 small documents as well as large ones.  Mouse-scrolling lags
 substantially.

 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX 2.0.0.
  No problems there.  I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and there were
 no problems with that either.

 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?

 James





-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[James Sutherland]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Strange indeed,
 On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down
 (two finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to
 its end in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org
 (LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).

 Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?

 (*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.


1. Open a document (e.g. the User Manual).
2. Either scroll with trackpad or scroll with the scroll bar on the right
side of the window.

There is a significant lag when scrolling. If you scroll back and forth,
the screen does not follow well at all.  Again, I only observe this on OSX
10.7.2 - not on 10.6.8.

2.3 GHz i7 with 8 GB RAM.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Ok, this was exactly what I have done on my system (10.7.2, see my previous
mail for full configuration).

If I use the scroll bars on the left, I can go to the end of the User guide
*immediately* (2 seconds, since I have some difficulty to click on the
iPhone's chronometer with the left hand, and start to scroll in Lyx with
the right hand).
I do not see any lag at all.

2012/1/4 James Sutherland james.sutherl...@utah.edu


 On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Strange indeed,
 On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down
 (two finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to
 its end in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org
 (LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).

 Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?

 (*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.


 1. Open a document (e.g. the User Manual).
 2. Either scroll with trackpad or scroll with the scroll bar on the right
 side of the window.

 There is a significant lag when scrolling. If you scroll back and forth,
 the screen does not follow well at all.  Again, I only observe this on OSX
 10.7.2 - not on 10.6.8.

 2.3 GHz i7 with 8 GB RAM.




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 16:30 schrieb Jean-Marc Lasgouttes:

 Le 04/01/2012 12:44, Stephan Witt a écrit :
 And this is the result:
 I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.
 
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 
 Is this with autorepeat? Many repeated events get removed in this case. 
 Therefore, I suspect that the result depends on the autorepeat setting in the 
 system.

Yes, this is with autorepeat.
With scrollbar LyX's work area follows the mouse at will immediately.
This I've tested with 2.0.2 Cocoa, 2.1svn - 4.8.0 Cocoa and 4.6.3 Carbon.

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net wrote:
 
 On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 
  On Monday, January 02, 2012 10:12:47 PM Jerry wrote:
  I'm evaluating LyX for a major project and am mightily impressed.
 
  However, there is one problem that stands out: Scrolling the main
  LyX window is excruciatingly slow. I'm using LyX 2.0.2 and OS X
  10.6.8. It doesn't seem to matter how I scroll--two-finger swipe
  on MacBook Pro trackpad or using the thumb bar or clicking on the
  normal scrolling arrows. When scrolling rather fast or using the
  two-finger ballistic scrolling, there are large jumps between
  screen updates; sometimes the jump is more than an entire
  screenful so there is little hope of reliably spotting things as
  they go by. While scrolling, processor usage goes to 100%
 
 
 Hmmm. I suspect that the problem is worse on my machine because even 
 scrolling small amounts (a few lines or a couple of pages) is so laggy/jumpy 
 that it is easily noticeable/annoying--hard to track features as they go by.
 
 Scrolling large distances in a short time pretty much takes place as fast as 
 scrolling a native application; it's just that to get the job done in roughly 
 the same amount of time, there are huge jumps.
 
 In an earlier post in this thread I noted that 2.0.1 was much better in this 
 regard (I just tried 2.0.1 a couple hours ago), so at least in part, this is 
 looks like a recent development.
 
 Jerry
 
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2 
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with small 
 documents as well as large ones.  Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX 2.0.0.  No 
 problems there.  I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and there were no 
 problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?

No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
Jerry
 
 James
  

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 18:05 schrieb James Sutherland:

 
 On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Strange indeed,
 On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down (two 
 finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to its end 
 in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org 
 (LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).
 
 Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?
 
 (*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.
 
 
 1. Open a document (e.g. the User Manual).
 2. Either scroll with trackpad or scroll with the scroll bar on the right 
 side of the window.
 
 There is a significant lag when scrolling. If you scroll back and forth, the 
 screen does not follow well at all.  Again, I only observe this on OSX 10.7.2 
 - not on 10.6.8.
 
 2.3 GHz i7 with 8 GB RAM.

I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig

The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
 
Qt for Mac OS X
---
 - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
 - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
 - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
 - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
[QTBUG-17728]
 - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).

Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 4:44 AM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 
 And this is the result:
 I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.
 
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 
 All tests I've made with \force_paint_single_char true and false.
 No real difference.
 
 You can see it yourself - there is no performance gain or loss on my system 
 (Macbook Pro OS X 10.6.8).
 
 Jerry, may I ask you to provide some numbers for your use case and for the 
 users guide?
 
 Stephan

All tests conducted on a MacBook Pro running 10.6.8, with the LyX window taking 
half of the width and the entire height of the screen. Toolbars displayed are 
Standard, View/Update, and Extra. Scrolling was done by clicking and holding in 
the elevator(?) area of the scrolling control area, not on the scroll arrows. 
Scrolling results by Function-downarrow or Function-arrow are the same. All LyX 
were binaries downloaded from lyx.org as of today. As I noted in an earlier 
post to this thread, my attempt to compile 2.1 from SVN failed. Under Energy 
Saver Preferences, the Graphics hardware choice was set to Better battery 
life.

Preference line \force_paint_single_char false out
2.0.2
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 20 seconds
2.0.1
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds
2.0.0
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds

Preference line \force_paint_single_char false in
2.0.2
Cursor misplaced
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds
2.0.1
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds
2.0.0
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds

In all cases where I have indicated UG scrolling in 10 seconds, subsequent 
scrollings of the User's Guide were about 10% faster, presumably because of 
certain objects already being rendered on the first scrolling. However, in the 
20-second UG case, I did not notice any such speed-up.

If the 20-second UG case sounds OK, it isn't—scrolling under thoses conditions, 
whether in UG or a short document, are still excruciatingly slow especially in 
text-heavy parts. (It gets noticeably better in areas of less text.)

In 2.0.2 with the preference line out (the mode related to my complaint), under 
situations of even moderately vigorous two-finger-swipe trackpad scrolling, 
large pieces are skipped in order to make the scrolling happen in a 
reasonable time. This makes trying to spot a feature as it speeds by useless, 
as the feature that you are looking for might not be displayed at all. On a 
small file that prints out to a little over two (rather dense—IEEEtrans) pages, 
it is not hard to make the screen jump from the beginning to the end without an 
intervening screenful. (The window width set to 1/2 the screen width, requiring 
3-4 screenfuls to display with normal clicking in the elevator bar.)

Even in the best cases above, scrolling is still laggy relative to native 
applications (but not so bad as to be useless). There is a small but noticeable 
lag from the time two-finger scrolling is initiated and when the screen content 
moves, and another lag between when scrolling is stopped and when the content 
stops moving. Also, try two-finger-scrolling on the trackpad in small rapid 
back-and-forth movements and watch as the screen updates in nearly 180 degree 
opposition to your finger movements, then repeat with e.g. TextEdit or Preview 
or Skim and notice how the content movement matches your finger movement. 
However, I don't want to make that a standard that LyX should meet; the 
behavior under the 10-second cases above is good enough to be useful.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 2:53 AM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 
 With 2.0.1, there is no cursor placement error.
 
 Oddly, it no longer matters if the line
 \force_paint_single_char false
 is in the Preferences file--the behavior is now the same (faster scrolling, 
 misplaced cursor) with or without that line.
 
 That's correct. The default for this (internal) preference depends on the 
 Qt-Version.
 
 Currently I'm looking for the optimal solution... including trying out the 
 Qt-4.8.0 library...
 
 Stephan

I think that this was a bogus statement by me. I later noticed that the line 
\force_paint_single_char false had accidentally been inserted into the 
preferences file in a place that I had not noticed, so when I thought I had 
deleted it or commented it out, the spurious entry was still in the file. My 
tests done later showed that its presence or absence had a factor of 2 on 
scrolling speed in 2.0.2. (See detailed post of scroll tests by me.)

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 10:14 AM, Murat Yildizoglu wrote:

 Ok, this was exactly what I have done on my system (10.7.2, see my previous 
 mail for full configuration).
 
 If I use the scroll bars on the left, I can go to the end of the User guide 
 immediately (2 seconds, since I have some difficulty to click on the iPhone's 
 chronometer with the left hand, and start to scroll in Lyx with the right 
 hand). 
 I do not see any lag at all. 
 
But you don't see _many_ skipped screenfuls, right? In order to get from top to 
bottom of the UG so fast and _appear_ to be scrolling fast, it skips _many_ 
screenfuls. This is because text rendering is so slow (or not buffered) that it 
skips many screenfuls and gives the appearance that it has scrolled rapidly. 
Try scrolling on any native program such as TextEdit or Preview and you will 
see vastly more useful scrolling.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:
 
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig
 
 The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
 
 Qt for Mac OS X
 ---
 - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
 - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
 - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
 - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
 [QTBUG-17728]
 - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).
 
 Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?
 
 Stephan

10.6.8, 2.1svn
Scrolling User's Guide takes 13 seconds.
No misplaced cursor.

This scroll rate is between what I measured for 2.0.0 and 2.0.2 using the 
special preference file line.

Subjectively, for me, the somewhat slower difference for 2.1svn puts the 
experience back into painful regime, but it is still better than 2.0.2 
without the special preference file line.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 3, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application 
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is improved--much 
 like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I commented on earlier in this 
 thread. And I see no problem with an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor placement at 
 the end of the m-text correct?

Uh-oh. With 2.0.2 on my 15 inch MacBook Pro screen, using Cambria font, screen 
zoom set to 140%, the cursor gets ahead of (to the right of) a screenful of m's 
by about 1.5 cm as measured with an on-screen ruler. If I then make the window 
smaller so that the line wraps, forcing the cursor to near the left edge of the 
window, the error is quite small or none at all, but as I continue to make the 
window even narrower, the error increases until another line wrap, etc.

With 2.0.1, there is no cursor placement error.

Oddly, it no longer matters if the line
\force_paint_single_char false
is in the Preferences file--the behavior is now the same (faster scrolling, 
misplaced cursor) with or without that line.

Jerry
 
 Stephan
 
 PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different settings on my 
 Mac.
 This takes a significant amount of time because of the many builds I have to 
 try.
 

Re: Slow scrolling

[Olivier Ripoll]

On 03.01.2012 21:36, Stephan Witt wrote:

Am 03.01.2012 um 17:15 schrieb Olivier Ripoll:

[...]


Hi,

I'm almost sure it depends on Qt-Version.


IIRC, I checked the file properties of QtCore4 and QtGUI4 dlls and both 
files were version 4.7.4.0 in LyX 2.0.1 and 2.0.2.

But perhaps my memories are confused there.



With LyX on Mac with Qt4 we have two fundamental problems:
1. Qt4 with Carbon crashes when interacting with some desktop tools like Divvy 
or SizeUp
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7365 and
http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/7519

2. Qt4 with Cocoa is painting text with kerning hints
This doesn't match with the drawing engine of LyX and LyX's cursor movement.
See the discussion here: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-devel@lists.lyx.org/msg169152.html

I've build 2.0.2 on Mac with Qt4.7 where Cocoa is the default to avoid (1).
The drawback is we have to deal with (2) - the current solution is to draw text 
just char by char,
the text fragments are only one character long.

To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
preferences file:
\force_paint_single_char false
On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
(Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)


Will try this when I have some time.

Best regards,

Olivier



Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 09:41 schrieb Jerry:

 
 On Jan 3, 2012, at 11:36 PM, Stephan Witt wrote:
 
 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application 
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is improved--much 
 like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I commented on earlier in this 
 thread. And I see no problem with an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor placement at 
 the end of the m-text correct?
 
 Uh-oh. With 2.0.2 on my 15 inch MacBook Pro screen, using Cambria font, 
 screen zoom set to 140%, the cursor gets ahead of (to the right of) a 
 screenful of m's by about 1.5 cm as measured with an on-screen ruler. If I 
 then make the window smaller so that the line wraps, forcing the cursor to 
 near the left edge of the window, the error is quite small or none at all, 
 but as I continue to make the window even narrower, the error increases until 
 another line wrap, etc.

This is what I've expected.

 With 2.0.1, there is no cursor placement error.
 
 Oddly, it no longer matters if the line
 \force_paint_single_char false
 is in the Preferences file--the behavior is now the same (faster scrolling, 
 misplaced cursor) with or without that line.

That's correct. The default for this (internal) preference depends on the 
Qt-Version.

Currently I'm looking for the optimal solution... including trying out the 
Qt-4.8.0 library...

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 07:36 schrieb Stephan Witt:

 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following line to your 
 preferences file:
 \force_paint_single_char false
 On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application 
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences.
 (Broken cursor placement for long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is improved--much 
 like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I commented on earlier in this 
 thread. And I see no problem with an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor placement at 
 the end of the m-text correct?
 
 Stephan
 
 PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different settings on my 
 Mac.
 This takes a significant amount of time because of the many builds I have to 
 try.

And this is the result:
I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.

* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden

All tests I've made with \force_paint_single_char true and false.
No real difference.

You can see it yourself - there is no performance gain or loss on my system 
(Macbook Pro OS X 10.6.8).

Jerry, may I ask you to provide some numbers for your use case and for the 
users guide?

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/01/12 12:44, Stephan Witt wrote:
 Am 04.01.2012 um 07:36 schrieb Stephan Witt:
 
 Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:
 
 To check if this is the culprit one may add the following
 line to your preferences file: \force_paint_single_char
 false On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
 Support/LyX-2.0/preferences. (Broken cursor placement for
 long lines should be one consequence.)
 
 I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is
 improved--much like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I
 commented on earlier in this thread. And I see no problem with
 an incorrectly placed cursor.
 
 Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor
 placement at the end of the m-text correct?
 
 Stephan
 
 PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different
 settings on my Mac. This takes a significant amount of time
 because of the many builds I have to try.
 
 And this is the result: I've opened the users guide and started to
 page down unto the end once.
 
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23
 Sekunden * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa,
 23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.6.3
 Carbon, 22 Sekunden

Just to add a non-mac number (Ubuntu Oneiric, all updates, LyX self
compiled from source, no tweaks, oldish laptop):

2.0.2, qt 4.8.5  25 seconds

Rainer


 
 All tests I've made with \force_paint_single_char true and false. 
 No real difference.
 
 You can see it yourself - there is no performance gain or loss on
 my system (Macbook Pro OS X 10.6.8).
 
 Jerry, may I ask you to provide some numbers for your use case and
 for the users guide?
 
 Stephan


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk8ER0MACgkQoYgNqgF2egoCgQCdGMm9GkIdVyWdG8kvp9dgxNa9
O1IAn3qQGxsZjA3L2OQ8Ih0U2TYW4mCS
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Re: Slow scrolling

[Richard Heck]

On 01/04/2012 07:34 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/01/12 12:44, Stephan Witt wrote:

Am 04.01.2012 um 07:36 schrieb Stephan Witt:


Am 04.01.2012 um 01:28 schrieb Jerry:

To check if this is the culprit one may add the following
line to your preferences file: \force_paint_single_char
false On a Mac this is the file ~/Library/Application
Support/LyX-2.0/preferences. (Broken cursor placement for
long lines should be one consequence.)

I've added the line that you suggest and the scrolling is
improved--much like or exactly like 2.0.1 scrolling that I
commented on earlier in this thread. And I see no problem with
an incorrectly placed cursor.

Please, try it with a line of many m letters. Is the cursor
placement at the end of the m-text correct?

Stephan

PS. Currently I'm working on a mini statistics with different
settings on my Mac. This takes a significant amount of time
because of the many builds I have to try.

And this is the result: I've opened the users guide and started to
page down unto the end once.

* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23
Sekunden * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa,
23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden * 2.1svn, 4.6.3
Carbon, 22 Sekunden

Just to add a non-mac number (Ubuntu Oneiric, all updates, LyX self
compiled from source, no tweaks, oldish laptop):

2.0.2, qt 4.8.5  25 seconds
I get there in about twelve seconds, but this is on a very fast machine. 
There are noticeable pauses as one hits the graphics, but otherwise it 
feels responsive.


Richard

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jean-Marc Lasgouttes]

Le 04/01/2012 12:44, Stephan Witt a écrit :

And this is the result:
I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.

* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
* 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
* 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden


Is this with autorepeat? Many repeated events get removed in this case. 
Therefore, I suspect that the result depends on the autorepeat setting 
in the system.


JMarc

Re: Slow scrolling

[James Sutherland]

On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net wrote:


 On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

  On Monday, January 02, 2012 10:12:47 PM Jerry wrote:
  I'm evaluating LyX for a major project and am mightily impressed.
 
  However, there is one problem that stands out: Scrolling the main
  LyX window is excruciatingly slow. I'm using LyX 2.0.2 and OS X
  10.6.8. It doesn't seem to matter how I scroll--two-finger swipe
  on MacBook Pro trackpad or using the thumb bar or clicking on the
  normal scrolling arrows. When scrolling rather fast or using the
  two-finger ballistic scrolling, there are large jumps between
  screen updates; sometimes the jump is more than an entire
  screenful so there is little hope of reliably spotting things as
  they go by. While scrolling, processor usage goes to 100%
 

 Hmmm. I suspect that the problem is worse on my machine because even
 scrolling small amounts (a few lines or a couple of pages) is so
 laggy/jumpy that it is easily noticeable/annoying--hard to track features
 as they go by.

 Scrolling large distances in a short time pretty much takes place as fast
 as scrolling a native application; it's just that to get the job done in
 roughly the same amount of time, there are huge jumps.

 In an earlier post in this thread I noted that 2.0.1 was much better in
 this regard (I just tried 2.0.1 a couple hours ago), so at least in part,
 this is looks like a recent development.

 Jerry



FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
(binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with small
documents as well as large ones.  Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.

I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX 2.0.0.  No
problems there.  I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and there were no
problems with that either.

So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?

James

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Strange indeed,
On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down (two
finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to its
end in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org
(LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).

Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?

(*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.

2012/1/4 James Sutherland james.sutherl...@utah.edu

 On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net wrote:


 On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Steve Litt wrote:

  On Monday, January 02, 2012 10:12:47 PM Jerry wrote:
  I'm evaluating LyX for a major project and am mightily impressed.
 
  However, there is one problem that stands out: Scrolling the main
  LyX window is excruciatingly slow. I'm using LyX 2.0.2 and OS X
  10.6.8. It doesn't seem to matter how I scroll--two-finger swipe
  on MacBook Pro trackpad or using the thumb bar or clicking on the
  normal scrolling arrows. When scrolling rather fast or using the
  two-finger ballistic scrolling, there are large jumps between
  screen updates; sometimes the jump is more than an entire
  screenful so there is little hope of reliably spotting things as
  they go by. While scrolling, processor usage goes to 100%
 

 Hmmm. I suspect that the problem is worse on my machine because even
 scrolling small amounts (a few lines or a couple of pages) is so
 laggy/jumpy that it is easily noticeable/annoying--hard to track features
 as they go by.

 Scrolling large distances in a short time pretty much takes place as fast
 as scrolling a native application; it's just that to get the job done in
 roughly the same amount of time, there are huge jumps.

 In an earlier post in this thread I noted that 2.0.1 was much better in
 this regard (I just tried 2.0.1 a couple hours ago), so at least in part,
 this is looks like a recent development.

 Jerry



 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with
 small documents as well as large ones.  Mouse-scrolling lags
 substantially.

 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX 2.0.0.
  No problems there.  I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and there were
 no problems with that either.

 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?

 James





-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[James Sutherland]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Strange indeed,
 On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down
 (two finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to
 its end in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org
 (LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).

 Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?

 (*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.


1. Open a document (e.g. the User Manual).
2. Either scroll with trackpad or scroll with the scroll bar on the right
side of the window.

There is a significant lag when scrolling. If you scroll back and forth,
the screen does not follow well at all.  Again, I only observe this on OSX
10.7.2 - not on 10.6.8.

2.3 GHz i7 with 8 GB RAM.

Re: Slow scrolling

[Murat Yildizoglu]

Ok, this was exactly what I have done on my system (10.7.2, see my previous
mail for full configuration).

If I use the scroll bars on the left, I can go to the end of the User guide
*immediately* (2 seconds, since I have some difficulty to click on the
iPhone's chronometer with the left hand, and start to scroll in Lyx with
the right hand).
I do not see any lag at all.

2012/1/4 James Sutherland james.sutherl...@utah.edu


 On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:

 Strange indeed,
 On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down
 (two finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to
 its end in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org
 (LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).

 Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?

 (*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.


 1. Open a document (e.g. the User Manual).
 2. Either scroll with trackpad or scroll with the scroll bar on the right
 side of the window.

 There is a significant lag when scrolling. If you scroll back and forth,
 the screen does not follow well at all.  Again, I only observe this on OSX
 10.7.2 - not on 10.6.8.

 2.3 GHz i7 with 8 GB RAM.




-- 
Prof. Murat Yildizoglu

Université Montesquieu Bordeaux IV
GREThA (UMR CNRS 5113)
Avenue Léon Duguit
33608 Pessac cedex
France

Bureau : F-331

yi...@u-bordeaux4.fr

http://yildizoglu.info

http://www.twitter.com/yildizoglu

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 16:30 schrieb Jean-Marc Lasgouttes:

 Le 04/01/2012 12:44, Stephan Witt a écrit :
 And this is the result:
 I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.
 
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 
 Is this with autorepeat? Many repeated events get removed in this case. 
 Therefore, I suspect that the result depends on the autorepeat setting in the 
 system.

Yes, this is with autorepeat.
With scrollbar LyX's work area follows the mouse at will immediately.
This I've tested with 2.0.2 Cocoa, 2.1svn - 4.8.0 Cocoa and 4.6.3 Carbon.

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:46 AM, James Sutherland wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jerry lancebo...@qwest.net wrote:
 
 On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 
  On Monday, January 02, 2012 10:12:47 PM Jerry wrote:
  I'm evaluating LyX for a major project and am mightily impressed.
 
  However, there is one problem that stands out: Scrolling the main
  LyX window is excruciatingly slow. I'm using LyX 2.0.2 and OS X
  10.6.8. It doesn't seem to matter how I scroll--two-finger swipe
  on MacBook Pro trackpad or using the thumb bar or clicking on the
  normal scrolling arrows. When scrolling rather fast or using the
  two-finger ballistic scrolling, there are large jumps between
  screen updates; sometimes the jump is more than an entire
  screenful so there is little hope of reliably spotting things as
  they go by. While scrolling, processor usage goes to 100%
 
 
 Hmmm. I suspect that the problem is worse on my machine because even 
 scrolling small amounts (a few lines or a couple of pages) is so laggy/jumpy 
 that it is easily noticeable/annoying--hard to track features as they go by.
 
 Scrolling large distances in a short time pretty much takes place as fast as 
 scrolling a native application; it's just that to get the job done in roughly 
 the same amount of time, there are huge jumps.
 
 In an earlier post in this thread I noted that 2.0.1 was much better in this 
 regard (I just tried 2.0.1 a couple hours ago), so at least in part, this is 
 looks like a recent development.
 
 Jerry
 
 
 FWIW, I have been noticing this issue on my Mac as well with LyX 2.0.2 
 (binary installation) and Mac OSX 10.7.2. It has occurred for me with small 
 documents as well as large ones.  Mouse-scrolling lags substantially.
 
 I just tried it on another Mac system running OSX 10.6.8 and LyX 2.0.0.  No 
 problems there.  I then updated to LyX 2.0.2 on 10.6.8 and there were no 
 problems with that either.
 
 So it appears that this issue is unique to LyX on OSX 10.7.x?

No—I'm on OS X 10.6.8.
Jerry
 
 James
  

Re: Slow scrolling

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.01.2012 um 18:05 schrieb James Sutherland:

 
 On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Murat Yildizoglu myi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Strange indeed,
 On my MBP(*), there is no visible lag. Using my touchpad's scroll down (two 
 finger gesture), I can go from start of the Guide de l'utilisateur to its end 
 in 14 seconds. Lyx 2.0.2, standard binary downloaded from Lyx.org 
 (LyX-2.0.2+qt4-cocoa.dmg).
 
 Maybe I have not correctly understood your test?
 
 (*) 15 screen, 8GB RAM, 2.4GHz Core i7, OSX 10.7.2.
 
 
 1. Open a document (e.g. the User Manual).
 2. Either scroll with trackpad or scroll with the scroll bar on the right 
 side of the window.
 
 There is a significant lag when scrolling. If you scroll back and forth, the 
 screen does not follow well at all.  Again, I only observe this on OSX 10.7.2 
 - not on 10.6.8.
 
 2.3 GHz i7 with 8 GB RAM.

I've prepared a LyX-package with Qt-4.8.0 and the upload is here:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27842660/LyX-2.1.0svn%2Bqt4.8.0-cocoa.dmg.sig

The Qt 4.8.0 ChangeLog contains this:
 
Qt for Mac OS X
---
 - Alien widgets is now used by default for Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X. 
 - Qt/Cocoa on Mac OS X has now full support for the raster paint engine.
 - QApplication has now implemented macEventFilter for Qt/Cocoa
 - HarfBuzz can now be used as an optional text layout engine on Mac OS X. 
[QTBUG-17728]
 - Qt shows some love to OS X Lion (10.7).

Perhaps this is an improvement on Lion? Please, can someone give it a try?

Stephan

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 4:44 AM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 
 And this is the result:
 I've opened the users guide and started to page down unto the end once.
 
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 * 2.0.0, 4.6.3 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.0.2, 4.7.2 Cocoa, 20 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Cocoa, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.8.0 Carbon, 23 Sekunden
 * 2.1svn, 4.6.3 Carbon, 22 Sekunden
 
 All tests I've made with \force_paint_single_char true and false.
 No real difference.
 
 You can see it yourself - there is no performance gain or loss on my system 
 (Macbook Pro OS X 10.6.8).
 
 Jerry, may I ask you to provide some numbers for your use case and for the 
 users guide?
 
 Stephan

All tests conducted on a MacBook Pro running 10.6.8, with the LyX window taking 
half of the width and the entire height of the screen. Toolbars displayed are 
Standard, View/Update, and Extra. Scrolling was done by clicking and holding in 
the elevator(?) area of the scrolling control area, not on the scroll arrows. 
Scrolling results by Function-downarrow or Function-arrow are the same. All LyX 
were binaries downloaded from lyx.org as of today. As I noted in an earlier 
post to this thread, my attempt to compile 2.1 from SVN failed. Under Energy 
Saver Preferences, the Graphics hardware choice was set to Better battery 
life.

Preference line \force_paint_single_char false out
2.0.2
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 20 seconds
2.0.1
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds
2.0.0
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds

Preference line \force_paint_single_char false in
2.0.2
Cursor misplaced
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds
2.0.1
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds
2.0.0
No cursor misplacement
Scroll User's Guide: 10 seconds

In all cases where I have indicated UG scrolling in 10 seconds, subsequent 
scrollings of the User's Guide were about 10% faster, presumably because of 
certain objects already being rendered on the first scrolling. However, in the 
20-second UG case, I did not notice any such speed-up.

If the 20-second UG case sounds OK, it isn't—scrolling under thoses conditions, 
whether in UG or a short document, are still excruciatingly slow especially in 
text-heavy parts. (It gets noticeably better in areas of less text.)

In 2.0.2 with the preference line out (the mode related to my complaint), under 
situations of even moderately vigorous two-finger-swipe trackpad scrolling, 
large pieces are skipped in order to make the scrolling happen in a 
reasonable time. This makes trying to spot a feature as it speeds by useless, 
as the feature that you are looking for might not be displayed at all. On a 
small file that prints out to a little over two (rather dense—IEEEtrans) pages, 
it is not hard to make the screen jump from the beginning to the end without an 
intervening screenful. (The window width set to 1/2 the screen width, requiring 
3-4 screenfuls to display with normal clicking in the elevator bar.)

Even in the best cases above, scrolling is still laggy relative to native 
applications (but not so bad as to be useless). There is a small but noticeable 
lag from the time two-finger scrolling is initiated and when the screen content 
moves, and another lag between when scrolling is stopped and when the content 
stops moving. Also, try two-finger-scrolling on the trackpad in small rapid 
back-and-forth movements and watch as the screen updates in nearly 180 degree 
opposition to your finger movements, then repeat with e.g. TextEdit or Preview 
or Skim and notice how the content movement matches your finger movement. 
However, I don't want to make that a standard that LyX should meet; the 
behavior under the 10-second cases above is good enough to be useful.

Jerry

Re: Slow scrolling

[Jerry]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 2:53 AM, Stephan Witt wrote:

 
 With 2.0.1, there is no cursor placement error.
 
 Oddly, it no longer matters if the line
 \force_paint_single_char false
 is in the Preferences file--the behavior is now the same (faster scrolling, 
 misplaced cursor) with or without that line.
 
 That's correct. The default for this (internal) preference depends on the 
 Qt-Version.
 
 Currently I'm looking for the optimal solution... including trying out the 
 Qt-4.8.0 library...
 
 Stephan

I think that this was a bogus statement by me. I later noticed that the line 
\force_paint_single_char false had accidentally been inserted into the 
preferences file in a place that I had not noticed, so when I thought I had 
deleted it or commented it out, the spurious entry was still in the file. My 
tests done later showed that its presence or absence had a factor of 2 on 
scrolling speed in 2.0.2. (See detailed post of scroll tests by me.)

Jerry