Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights

[clay monroe]

Those are available.  Cost $15 each and have the resistors inside.  No real 
drop in electrons

clay

On Sep 5, 2012, at 9:20 AM, WILTON wrote:

> I don't WANT LED's; just wondered how long it'd be before somebody made units 
> to just plug into regular sockets - an engineering exercise.  'Would use less 
> fuel, but I'm not gonna try to measure it, and 'sure hope I get get "poor" 
> enough to be concerned about the difference.
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Curt Raymond" 
> To: "Diesel List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights
> 
> 
>> Ehh
>> 
>> If I were going to LEDs it'd be for the longer lifespan and I'd just to 
>> plain old. Brighter would be an advantage but flashing I'm not so sure about.
>> 
>> I do like LED bulbs in the dash of a 123, much brighter without the plastic 
>> melting heat of some of the other options.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:16:43 -0400
>> From: "WILTON" 
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights
>> Message-ID: 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>   reply-type=response
>> 
>> 'Been wondering 'bout that, myself - LED's to just plug into regular socket,
>> that is.
>> 
>> Wilton
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 
>> 
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: [MBZ] LED brake lights
>> 
>> 
>>> http://lakesideelectronics.net/products-page/
>>> 
>>> --R
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights

[clay monroe]

I did the swap to reduce the amperage on the ancient wires in the car.  This 
way more electrons flow to the spark plugs instead of sucking them to make hot 
photons.  I got the cheaper LED that just make light, not all fancy

clay

On Sep 5, 2012, at 8:47 AM, Dan Penoff wrote:

> Scroll down and look at the price!
> 
> For that I can buy a lifetime of incandescent brake lamps for every
> car I have ever or will own.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 11:18 AM, WILTON  wrote:
> 
>> 'Been wondering 'bout that, myself - LED's to just plug into regular socket, 
>> that is.
>> 
>> Wilton
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 
>> 
>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:02 AM
>> Subject: [MBZ] LED brake lights
>> 
>> 
>>> http://lakesideelectronics.net/products-page/
>>> 
>>> --R
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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> 
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights

[clay monroe]

I did that on Frosch.  Got the inexpensive ones off eBay from china.  They are 
a bunch less cash than retail.  Factory seconds with a bit of excess solder or 
odd alignments.  Better than $16 a bulb.  Good lighting, but not a huge spread 
of photons.  Best seen head on.  You have to swap in a timed blinker relay, as 
the OEM is looking for lots of draw.




clay 


1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







On Sep 5, 2012, at 8:16 AM, WILTON wrote:

> 'Been wondering 'bout that, myself - LED's to just plug into regular socket, 
> that is.
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas" 
> 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 10:02 AM
> Subject: [MBZ] LED brake lights
> 
> 
>> http://lakesideelectronics.net/products-page/
>> 
>> --R
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Help - Rear Right Lower control arm 1983 300D

[Dieselhead]

If the listmom won't sell one, try searching car-part.com for a diff 
or rear axle.   Find yards with low prices and/or near, and call them 
up and ask for the LCA.


If they won't take off and sell the LCA, ask if they will sell you 
the whole subframe, or subframe less diff and axles.


The logic is that IF they have the diff or axle, they most likely 
have the LCA.  I would pick one in southern no-rust states.



no reponse to the message below - wanted to make sure it went out.  Guess
that means no one has one?

Peter

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Peter Hertzing  wrote:


 My Rear right lower control arm has bit the dust - and I have welded in a
 replacement "mount" from my old lawnmower deck which lasted about 3
 months.  Anyone have a used one?  I am sure everyone knows that a new
 replacement costs more then a semester of college.

 Thanks f0r your help - again its a 1983 300D

 Thanks -


 > Peter
 >


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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Dimitri Seretakis]

I kind of measured it. It was getting dark and starting to rain so I wanted to 
wrap things up. I therefore couldn't get a great view but it looked like around 
5 degrees. I just need to replace that chain. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 9:54 PM, Max Dillon  wrote:

You didn't measure the chain stretch while you had the valve cover off?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Dimitri Seretakis  wrote:

Thanks! That will prove helpful. I have more troubleshooting to do on
this car after ChowdahQ.
In the meanwhile I adjusted the valves-they were way off! Strangely,
all the exhaust valves had too much clearance and a couple of intakes
were tight. I was under the impression that the exhaust valve
clearances usually tighten with time? Anyway, the car drives a lot
better. The idle is still a bit rough and it stumbles slightly in
second gear while approaching 40mph. Something is still amiss.
Compression test next. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

Depends on how clean the lines and top of the IP are.  You want
everything clean enough for surgery first.  No lint, dust, etc.

I'd say 1-2 hours.  Remove the lines (you have already done that.
Remove the DV locks (screwdriver or torx)
If you have the splined DVs, then you need the special socket.  If the
DVs are not too torqued,  you sometimes can remove them with the
splined lock with a wrench on the tab.  This has never worked for me,
and you really need the socket to get the right torque on reassembly.
Remove the DV holders and keep in order, or I do one at a time.
Use a pick to pull out the old copper seal.  Inspect...  find a
culprit?  (best to determine the weak cyl first.)
put in a new copper seal, clean the DV holder, put on a new oring.
use a new spring and replace DV holder
Follow specs for tightening procedure and final torque.

So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a
similar situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything back
together.

If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs and
DV orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if he
can't find them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The copper
seal is a one-time use, and generally if you pull a DV back out, the
oring is cut from the threads too.  A weak DV spring will act the same
as a leaky DV seal.  rough idle.

I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is
always one I want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for seating
the DV seal and the proper torque.


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Re: [MBZ] outa' ideas - re: tach & AC stopping

[Jim Cathey]

Well guys, I drove my '85 300TD earlier after resoldering the Klima 
Relay PCB yesterday and, as per usual, the AC & tach worked fine from 
startup but both shut off after ~10-15 min.  Anybody got any other 
ideas as to where to look to resolve this malady?  TIA.


My guess is now the ring gear sensor.  You need to put an AC
voltmeter on the signal to the Klima, and prove that it's still
there once it cuts out.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] OT: pianos

[Jim Cathey]

I guess we're due to be inheriting the extended family's
covered-wagon special.  That would be our second piano.
How many does one family need?

I'm waiting to see how they'll both end up being my
fault.  The way I count it, they're both my wife's doing!

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Ooookkkkk

[Rick Knoble]

On Sep 5, 2012, at 10:19 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

> 
> http://joplin.craigslist.org/cto/3248125698.html


I believe the quote is "that is just wrong on so many levels". 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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[MBZ] Ooookkkkk

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

http://joplin.craigslist.org/cto/3248125698.html

--
Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] Help - Rear Right Lower control arm 1983 300D

[Fmiser]

> Peter Hertzing wrote:

> My Rear right lower control arm has bit the dust - and I
> have welded in a replacement "mount" from my old lawnmower
> deck which lasted about 3 months.  Anyone have a used one?
> I am sure everyone knows that a new replacement costs more
> then a semester of college.

Sure!  I still have the one that came apart on me.  I got my
replacement from AtlantaStuttgart.  

I don't think I have any spare _good_ ones.  Maybe make a direct
appeal to Kaleb.  Or get yourself a parts car. *grin*

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] pianos

[OK Don]

I have no idea at all. I've seen old uprights sell for $3-500 that were in
similar condition - played OK, solid sound board, but htat was 30 years ago.

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:08 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

> Not to be crass, but what's it worth?
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:32 PM, OK Don  wrote:
> > Our Jewett is very similar - fewer, larger carvings, broken off over the
> > years, but you can still see the shadow of them in the finish.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Randy Bennell 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> This is what my wife's piano likely originally looked like. The
> "carvings"
> >> on the upper front panel were removed before we got it.
> >>
> >> Randy
> >>
> >>
> http://www.junkables.com/**jimages/memproductimages/2512/**Mendelssohn.jpg
> 
> >>
> >> __**_
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/<
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/>
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com<
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > OK Don
> > 2001 ML320
> > 2012 Passat TDI DSG
> > 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
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> >
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>
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>
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] pianos

[andrew strasfogel]

Not to be crass, but what's it worth?

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:32 PM, OK Don  wrote:
> Our Jewett is very similar - fewer, larger carvings, broken off over the
> years, but you can still see the shadow of them in the finish.
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
>
>>
>> This is what my wife's piano likely originally looked like. The "carvings"
>> on the upper front panel were removed before we got it.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> http://www.junkables.com/**jimages/memproductimages/2512/**Mendelssohn.jpg
>>
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> 2001 ML320
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG
> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
> ___
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[OK Don]

As Phillip said, do you need a very high quaity instrument to learn to play
on? Can you hear the difference between a great piano and mearly OK one? I
can't, and doubt that I ever could.
Our 111 year old upright snds great to me, but then I grew up with it, our
kids learned to play it, etc. - it's what I compare all other pianos to. It
was re-built once, in the 1960s I think. We (the kids) hated that the
chipped ivories were prelaced with plastic, but those plastic covers are
still as good as they were in 1960, so they are more durable.
I just hope one of the kids decides to live in one place long enough to
make it worth moving it to their house - the grand kids need to learn to
play on their great-great-great grandparent's piano.

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:57 PM, Mountain Man  wrote:

> Dan wrote:
> > Take it for what it's worth, but this is coming from guys who make their
> livings doing this.
> >
>
> Very few people make good living as piano technicians.  It is very
> tough to obtain and keep customers.
> mao
>
> ___
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>
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Mountain Man]

Dan wrote:
> Take it for what it's worth, but this is coming from guys who make their 
> livings doing this.
>

Very few people make good living as piano technicians.  It is very
tough to obtain and keep customers.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Max Dillon]

Nevertheless, glad to hear you're making progress, getting some improvement.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Max Dillon  wrote:

>You didn't measure the chain stretch while you had the valve cover off?
>-- 
>Max Dillon
>Charleston SC
>'95 E300
>'87 300TD
>
>Dimitri Seretakis  wrote:
>
>>Thanks! That will prove helpful. I have more troubleshooting to do on
>>this car after ChowdahQ.
>>In the meanwhile I adjusted the valves-they were way off! Strangely,
>>all the exhaust valves had too much clearance and a couple of intakes
>>were tight. I was under the impression that the exhaust valve
>>clearances usually tighten with time? Anyway, the car drives a lot
>>better. The idle is still a bit rough and it stumbles slightly in
>>second gear while approaching 40mph. Something is still amiss.
>>Compression test next. 
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Depends on how clean the lines and top of the IP are.  You want
>>everything clean enough for surgery first.  No lint, dust, etc.
>>
>>I'd say 1-2 hours.  Remove the lines (you have already done that.
>>Remove the DV locks (screwdriver or torx)
>>If you have the splined DVs, then you need the special socket.  If the
>>DVs are not too torqued,  you sometimes can remove them with the
>>splined lock with a wrench on the tab.  This has never worked for me,
>>and you really need the socket to get the right torque on reassembly.
>>Remove the DV holders and keep in order, or I do one at a time.
>>Use a pick to pull out the old copper seal.  Inspect...  find a
>>culprit?  (best to determine the weak cyl first.)
>>put in a new copper seal, clean the DV holder, put on a new oring.
>>use a new spring and replace DV holder
>>Follow specs for tightening procedure and final torque.
>>
>>So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a
>>similar situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything
>back
>>together.
>>
>>If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs
>and
>>DV orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if he
>>can't find them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The copper
>>seal is a one-time use, and generally if you pull a DV back out, the
>>oring is cut from the threads too.  A weak DV spring will act the same
>>as a leaky DV seal.  rough idle.
>>
>>I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is
>>always one I want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for seating
>>the DV seal and the proper torque.
>>
>>
>>___
>>http://www.okiebenz.com
>>For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>___
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>>
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>___
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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Max Dillon]

You didn't measure the chain stretch while you had the valve cover off?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Dimitri Seretakis  wrote:

>Thanks! That will prove helpful. I have more troubleshooting to do on
>this car after ChowdahQ.
>In the meanwhile I adjusted the valves-they were way off! Strangely,
>all the exhaust valves had too much clearance and a couple of intakes
>were tight. I was under the impression that the exhaust valve
>clearances usually tighten with time? Anyway, the car drives a lot
>better. The idle is still a bit rough and it stumbles slightly in
>second gear while approaching 40mph. Something is still amiss.
>Compression test next. 
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Depends on how clean the lines and top of the IP are.  You want
>everything clean enough for surgery first.  No lint, dust, etc.
>
>I'd say 1-2 hours.  Remove the lines (you have already done that.
>Remove the DV locks (screwdriver or torx)
>If you have the splined DVs, then you need the special socket.  If the
>DVs are not too torqued,  you sometimes can remove them with the
>splined lock with a wrench on the tab.  This has never worked for me,
>and you really need the socket to get the right torque on reassembly.
>Remove the DV holders and keep in order, or I do one at a time.
>Use a pick to pull out the old copper seal.  Inspect...  find a
>culprit?  (best to determine the weak cyl first.)
>put in a new copper seal, clean the DV holder, put on a new oring.
>use a new spring and replace DV holder
>Follow specs for tightening procedure and final torque.
>
>So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a
>similar situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything back
>together.
>
>If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs and
>DV orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if he
>can't find them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The copper
>seal is a one-time use, and generally if you pull a DV back out, the
>oring is cut from the threads too.  A weak DV spring will act the same
>as a leaky DV seal.  rough idle.
>
>I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is
>always one I want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for seating
>the DV seal and the proper torque.
>
>
>___
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>
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>http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Like Buttah

[Mountain Man]

Allan wrote:
> They are still a major player in the supercomputer market.  As recently
> as last year they had the fastest supercomputer in the world, with
> nearly a quarter of a million processing cores.

Yes, that should be very interesting for you to visit - enjoy.
I had a friend that worked with Seymour in Colorado Springs.  He gave
me a tour of the place.  I might even still have a souvenir from that
tour - a piece of wire used to connect between cores smaller in
diameter than human hair.
may

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Re: [MBZ] pianos

[OK Don]

Our Jewett is very similar - fewer, larger carvings, broken off over the
years, but you can still see the shadow of them in the finish.

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

>
> This is what my wife's piano likely originally looked like. The "carvings"
> on the upper front panel were removed before we got it.
>
> Randy
>
> http://www.junkables.com/**jimages/memproductimages/2512/**Mendelssohn.jpg
>
> __**_
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Help - Rear Right Lower control arm 1983 300D

[Allan Streib]

Interested in an entire 1983 300D by chance?

Peter Hertzing  writes:

> no reponse to the message below - wanted to make sure it went out.  Guess
> that means no one has one?
>
> Peter
>
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Peter Hertzing  wrote:
>
>> My Rear right lower control arm has bit the dust - and I have welded in a
>> replacement "mount" from my old lawnmower deck which lasted about 3
>> months.  Anyone have a used one?  I am sure everyone knows that a new
>> replacement costs more then a semester of college.
>>
>> Thanks f0r your help - again its a 1983 300D
>>
>> Thanks -
>>
>> Peter
>>

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Fastest computers [was: Re: Like Buttah]

[Allan Streib]

Craig  writes:

> What's amazing is that 2009's top computer, the first one to break the
> petaflop barrier, Los Alamos National Laboratory's Roadrunner, is now
> number 19!

Yeah nobody stays on the top of that list for very long.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Help - Rear Right Lower control arm 1983 300D

[Peter Hertzing]

no reponse to the message below - wanted to make sure it went out.  Guess
that means no one has one?

Peter

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Peter Hertzing  wrote:

> My Rear right lower control arm has bit the dust - and I have welded in a
> replacement "mount" from my old lawnmower deck which lasted about 3
> months.  Anyone have a used one?  I am sure everyone knows that a new
> replacement costs more then a semester of college.
>
> Thanks f0r your help - again its a 1983 300D
>
> Thanks -
>
> Peter
>
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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Dimitri Seretakis]

Thanks! That will prove helpful. I have more troubleshooting to do on this car 
after ChowdahQ.
In the meanwhile I adjusted the valves-they were way off! Strangely, all the 
exhaust valves had too much clearance and a couple of intakes were tight. I was 
under the impression that the exhaust valve clearances usually tighten with 
time? Anyway, the car drives a lot better. The idle is still a bit rough and it 
stumbles slightly in second gear while approaching 40mph. Something is still 
amiss. Compression test next. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

Depends on how clean the lines and top of the IP are.  You want everything 
clean enough for surgery first.  No lint, dust, etc.

I'd say 1-2 hours.  Remove the lines (you have already done that.
Remove the DV locks (screwdriver or torx)
If you have the splined DVs, then you need the special socket.  If the DVs are 
not too torqued,  you sometimes can remove them with the splined lock with a 
wrench on the tab.  This has never worked for me, and you really need the 
socket to get the right torque on reassembly.
Remove the DV holders and keep in order, or I do one at a time.
Use a pick to pull out the old copper seal.  Inspect...  find a culprit?  (best 
to determine the weak cyl first.)
put in a new copper seal, clean the DV holder, put on a new oring.
use a new spring and replace DV holder
Follow specs for tightening procedure and final torque.

So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a similar 
situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything back together.

If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs and DV 
orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if he can't find 
them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The copper seal is a one-time 
use, and generally if you pull a DV back out, the oring is cut from the threads 
too.  A weak DV spring will act the same as a leaky DV seal.  rough idle.

I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is always one I 
want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for seating the DV seal and the 
proper torque.


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Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options

[Dimitri Seretakis]

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:35 PM, Frederick Moir  wrote:

Dimitri.
Not sure if I have one, will check.
 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.



From: Dimitri Seretakis 
To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options

Fred,
That would be very much appreciated! How about a pencil glow plug reamer? My 
reamer is for loop plugs.
Since I've never been to a ChowdaQ, do we work on cars at this event? 


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Frederick Moir  wrote:

Dimitri, et al.
I'll bring my HF compression tester, with injector adapter, to the Q, so that 
you can try it at your leisure. (Does anyone have any of that to spare?)
Also, the DV tool may fit you IP holders, I'll bring that too.
Next?

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.



From: Dimitri Seretakis 
To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Compression tester options

Well I just realized that the one and only adaptor my tester has is for loop 
style plug holes. That's not going to work for an 82 240D with pencil glows. 
Short of the obvious, get my arse over to Horror Fright and just get a new el 
cheapo set-up, do I have any other quick and dirty options to remedy this 
situation? 




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[MBZ] Fastest computers [was: Re: Like Buttah]

[Craig]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 18:56:23 -0400 Allan Streib 
wrote:

> Mountain Man  writes:
> 
> They [Cray] are still a major player in the supercomputer market.  As
> recently as last year they had the fastest supercomputer in the world,
> with nearly a quarter of a million processing cores.

Yup. Their Jaguar is number 6 on this year's list.


>From http://top500.org/lists/2012/06:

Rank
Site
Computer
Year
Vendor
Cores
Rmax(Terraflops)

1   DOE/NNSA/LLNL United States
Sequoia-BlueGene/Q, Power BQC 16C 1.60 GHz, Custom
2011
IBM
1572864
16324.75   [ = 16.32475 Petaflops ]

2   RIKEN Advanced Institute for Computational Science (AICS)
Japan
K computer, SPARC64 VIIIfx 2.0GHz, Tofu interconnect
2011
Fujitsu
705024
10510.00

3   DOE/SC/Argonne National Laboratory United States
Mira - BlueGene/Q, Power BQC 16C 1.60GHz, Custom
2012
IBM 
786432  
8162.38

4   Leibniz Rechenzentrum Germany
SuperMUC - iDataPlex DX360M4, Xeon E5-2680 8C 2.70GHz,
Infiniband FDR
2012
IBM 
147456  
2897.00 

5   National Supercomputing Center in Tianjin China
Tianhe-1A - NUDT YH MPP, Xeon X5670 6C 2.93 GHz, NVIDIA 2050
2010
NUDT
186368  
2566.00 

6   DOE/SC/Oak Ridge National Laboratory United States
Jaguar - Cray XK6, Opteron 6274 16C 2.200GHz,
Cray Gemini interconnect, NVIDIA 2090 / 2009
Cray Inc.
298592  
1941.00 

7   CINECA Italy
Fermi - BlueGene/Q, Power BQC 16C 1.60GHz, Custom
2012
IBM
163840  
1725.49 

8   Forschungszentrum Juelich (FZJ) Germany
JuQUEEN - BlueGene/Q, Power BQC 16C 1.60GHz, Custom
2012
IBM
131072
1380.39

9   CEA/TGCC-GENCI France
Curie thin nodes - Bullx B510, Xeon E5-2680 8C 2.700GHz,
Infiniband QDR
2012
Bull
77184
1359.00

10  National Supercomputing Centre in Shenzhen (NSCS) China
Nebulae - Dawning TC3600 Blade System, Xeon X5650 6C 2.66GHz,
Infiniband QDR, NVIDIA 2050
2010
Dawning
120640
1272.00


What's amazing is that 2009's top computer, the first one to break the
petaflop barrier, Los Alamos National Laboratory's Roadrunner, is now
number 19!

What's also amazing is the number of processor cores on this years
fastest: 1,572,864!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[Mitch Haley]

Allan Streib wrote:


If you try to idle very much faster than stock on a turbo the turbo will
spool up and the engine will start to race.  At least that's what I've
experienced when I've tried to use the throttle to "fast idle" my OM617
300D while waiting for the school bus on winter mornings.


I tightened the cable on my 300SD until it started to run away at full high 
idle, then backed it off until it wouldn't do it any more. IIRC the takeoff 
point was somewhere between 1500 and 2000 rpm.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Squarebacks and Hunchbacks

[RELNGSON]

> ...Had a 73 squareback when I lived in Alabama.  Very ill handling.  If 
> you
> had a lot of people in it you could keep the front end from plowing so bad
> in a corner but then the body roll was terrifying...
> 
Even worse than that, a friend (who really should have known better 
considering his field) bought a yellow 412 wagon. Not only bad to drive but 
ugly as 
sin.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Max Dillon]

We have an old piano I'd like to sell, can you recommend a resource to help 
determine a price?  It is a Kaus upright, my wife says at least 100 years old.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Dan Penoff  wrote:

>For what it's worth, this is part of a discussion I had with a number
>of people (expert piano techs and rebuilders) regarding "old" pianos
>and what defines them.  Do take the in context - some of these guys are
>rebuilding Steinways that cost more than any of our cars ever did...
>
>> It is a matter of all of the above. Age takes its toll, especially on
>wood, leather, felt, etc. All of those things are subject to
>deterioration over time, whether being used (played) or not, and they
>are the vast majority of the parts which make up a piano. There comes a
>point when they are just past their useful life. Sometimes they can be
>nudged along for awhile, but the clock is always ticking.
>> 
>> The general rule of thumb for the useful life of a piano, from one of
>the great builders, is about fifty years. It is about then that a
>rebuild is necessary. I would suggest that you do searches on the
>topics of rebuilding, restoring, and refurbishing. The terms have very
>different meanings. These topics have been well covered at PW.
>> 
>> Often inexperienced (1st. time) piano owners are unaware of
>maintenance other than regular tuning. Within the 50 year life,
>depending on usage, one should expect multiple new sets of hammers and
>possibly a new set of strings. Again based on use, about every five
>years a piano will need a thorough action regulation and voicing. These
>are not hard and fast rules, but a guide for a well maintained piano.
>> 
>> What it all boils down to is that pianos over 100 years old will need
>considerable work if they have not had a total rebuild within about the
>last 25 years or so. Also, there are only a handful of manufacturer's
>instruments which are worth the investment. That is why you hear "run
>away" or "kindling" when a newcomer asks about a 1893 Whatever & Sons,
>in lovely condition, built in Obscura Ohio, by a blacksmith, who also
>made milking stools. The original owner was always a concert pianist
>and most likely the "good as new" piano is "discovered" on Craigslist.
>It just goes with the territory. The lesson has been learned over and
>over again. 
>> 
>> Of the American builders, here's the handy list:
>> 
>> Steinway & Sons
>> Mason & Hamlin
>> Baldwin
>> Chickering - pre-WWII
>> Knabe - pre-WWII
>> 
>> There will probably be many responses with the "you forgots" and the
>"how 'bouts." I didn't forget them, I chose to forget them for reason.
>There are endless possibilities, but as a beginner, I would suggest
>that you play it a bit safe and stay with the known commodities.
>> 
>> Pianos which were built to last, have proven that they do last. But,
>as you see, it is a very short list and even those need proper
>maintenance throughout their various incarnations by means of
>rebuilding.
>> 
>> It all boils down to an old piano is still an old piano. They wear
>out. Many can be brought back to life. All it takes is $$$.
>> 
>> You would be doing yourself a favor if you were looking in the
>direction of quality studio or console pianos from the late
>1980's-90's.
>
>
>Take it for what it's worth, but this is coming from guys who make
>their livings doing this.
>
>Dan
>
>
>
>On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>
>> When I get home tonight I'll go into detail. I have a LOT of notes
>from my discussions with these guys. It's pretty fascinating to me...
>> 
>> Dan
>
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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Dieselhead]

John, you are right, about the other type of pump.  There actually 
are 3 types of pumps used in 615 to 60X engines,  The oldest is the 
hex head "union", or part between the actual delivery valve/pump body 
and the injector line.  In the middle was a type where the "union" 
was also the calibrating device, not to be touched except by a Bosch 
shop on a test bench.  Thankfully that was a short lived experiment. 
The third, splined "unions" is used on 85 to 87 and somewhere into 
the 90s Diesels. (123, 124 and 126) and later.


My memory is dull, but I am pretty sure my 80 and 81 240Ds have the 
splines.  At any rate, the procedure is pretty much the same, just 
that on the OM621 and 615, there is  no Oring to contend with . 
Somewhere between 76 and 1980, the intermediate type was used, and 
then the type M.  I make no claim to know what models were switched 
to which type at what year.  I will go out and look at the 240Ds to 
see if my memory is tricking me, then report back.



Correct me if I am wrong, but the procedure that was previously 
cited is particular to the Bosch type M pumps, which are readily 
identified by the 33-tooth spline "touch-me-not" "fastener" that is 
the delivery valve body (or union, depending upon which book you 
read from)...


The type M pump has both the delivery valve seal (crush washer) and 
an o-ring (which seems to fare poorly with respect to biodiesel and 
ULSD...)


The car in question is one of the earlier diesels (most 1985's and 
pre-1985 US/NA models); they use a Bosch type MW pump which has a 
bog-standard hex outline for the unions.  The unions each screw into 
a separate steel chamber that is attached to the aluminum body of 
the pump with one nut above and one nut below. The MW type pump does 
not use the worrisome rubber o-rings, just copper washers.  If they 
leak (and only if they leak), loosen them and them retorque to 50Nm 
in one step.  If they continue to leak, order new copper washers (I 
forgot the part number) and replace all of them one at a time.
Wear gloves to protect the parts from fingerprints, etc.  It's not a 
good idea to remove the innards below the union/spring, but if the 
delivery valve does pop out, rinse it in clean diesel fuel or clean 
fine oil (sewing machine oil) (3 in 1 is NOT suitable) and 
reassemble them; check the bottom surface of each union for any 
scratching or scoring; the finish must be polished or you will have 
leaks. Any unions that are not polished should be replaced, as 
removing material from the bottom of them will increase the pressure 
on the delivery valve... Likewise any that continue to leak should 
be swapped.  The unions themselves can be swapped off of a "donor" 
pump.


I'd only mess with the pump if it was leaking.

Do you see any air bubbles in the fuel lines? They can develop leaks with age.

Also, if your fuel tank vent is plugged, you can wind up with some 
roughness (and starvation) issues; check that before replacing fuel 
lines, especially if you have ever needed to disassemble the fuel 
level sender and remove algae corpses from it; I've seen the vent 
line become sufficiently plugged to hold about 60psi applied to the 
vent fitting at the tank.


The quickest way to test the vent line is to take a long drive then 
remove the fuel cap; after turning the cap, it should rest on the 
opening--you should not need to pull it off, and you should not hear 
air movement when the cap comes off.



--
John W Reames
jream...@verizon.net
Home: +14106646986
Mobile: +14437915905

On Sep 5, 2012, at 15:57, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Depends on how clean the lines and top of the IP are.  You want 
everything clean enough for surgery first.  No lint, dust, etc.


 I'd say 1-2 hours.  Remove the lines (you have already done that.
 Remove the DV locks (screwdriver or torx)
 If you have the splined DVs, then you need the special socket.  If 
the DVs are not too torqued,  you sometimes can remove them with 
the splined lock with a wrench on the tab.  This has never worked 
for me, and you really need the socket to get the right torque on 
reassembly.

 > Remove the DV holders and keep in order, or I do one at a time.
 Use a pick to pull out the old copper seal.  Inspect...  find a 
culprit?  (best to determine the weak cyl first.)

 put in a new copper seal, clean the DV holder, put on a new oring.
 use a new spring and replace DV holder
 Follow specs for tightening procedure and final torque.


 So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a 
similar situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything 
back together.


 If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV 
springs and DV orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part 
numbers if he can't find them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and 
seals.  The cop

Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[Dan Penoff]

Better yet, my favorite VW commercial of all time::

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p90_8JJQUI&feature=related

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

> This all reminds me of:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KSq_LxZ4U
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[Curt Raymond]

This all reminds me of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97KSq_LxZ4U

Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2012 19:28:52 -0400
From: Dan Penoff 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

My second to last VW was a 1971 Fastback that the PO had completely gutted the 
fuel injection system on.  It barely worked on a good day, so I removed it and 
did the commonly available (at the time) downdraft carb conversion.  I really 
wanted to do duals, but I couldn't find a set that I could afford.

I don't remember much about the car other than it was orange and did a decent 
job of getting me around.  I think I only had it for about a year, at best.

Dan

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[Fmiser]

> > Michael Canfield  writes:
> >
> > I think I will adapt the high idle knob from my NA coupe.
> > Been wanting to do that.  Now I have more motivation.

> Allan Streib wrote:
> 
> If you try to idle very much faster than stock on a turbo the
> turbo will spool up and the engine will start to race.

I've long schemed to plan a way to use the cruise control system
as an idle speed controller.  Use the tach signal instead of
speedometer.  I've never gone any further than that.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Temp sensor replacement - Fail...

[Curt Raymond]

My opinion also.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:22:09 -0500
From: Fmiser 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Temp sensor replacement - Fail...
Message-ID: <20120905172209.0e627621.fmi...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> As I dug around to get it back can you imagine what I found?
> ANOTHER SENSOR! I mean a loose one, hanging out...

> Anyway the new sensor makes no difference, same odd temp
> behavior as before. Its now time to pull the cluster (a new
> one for me on a 201) and swap in my spare gauge.

Sound to me like a previous owner had the same symptoms and so
was replacing the temperature sensor and dropped it.

--Philip


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Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[Dan Penoff]

My second to last VW was a 1971 Fastback that the PO had completely gutted the 
fuel injection system on.  It barely worked on a good day, so I removed it and 
did the commonly available (at the time) downdraft carb conversion.  I really 
wanted to do duals, but I couldn't find a set that I could afford.

I don't remember much about the car other than it was orange and did a decent 
job of getting me around.  I think I only had it for about a year, at best.

Dan


On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Curt Raymond wrote:

> Which reminds me I saw a Type IV near our house the other day. Its in rough 
> shape but is being driven at least a little. The guy at the end of our street 
> is a VW guy, has an old split window bus and a Beatle. I *think* he owns a 
> body shop that has a couple other old VWs hanging out.
> 
> My mom had a fastback when I was very young. Dad tells some funny stories 
> about bringing the car to northern Maine when he married my mother. He says 
> in the depths of winter he used to sneak into the garage, shoot starting 
> fluid into the airbox and crank it over all in one swift motion because if 
> the car knew you were coming it would refuse to start. Strangely it never 
> refused to start to bring my mother home.
> Of course at -20F the heat was woefully inadequate so Dad bought a catalytic 
> propane heater that lived in the passenger's footwell. It would warm the car 
> but you had to be careful because it could melt the dash. The car is long 
> gone (threw a rod right out of the block) but the heater lives on in my 
> Uncle's vintage Taylorcraft.
> 
> -Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

For what it's worth, this is part of a discussion I had with a number of people 
(expert piano techs and rebuilders) regarding "old" pianos and what defines 
them.  Do take the in context - some of these guys are rebuilding Steinways 
that cost more than any of our cars ever did...

> It is a matter of all of the above. Age takes its toll, especially on wood, 
> leather, felt, etc. All of those things are subject to deterioration over 
> time, whether being used (played) or not, and they are the vast majority of 
> the parts which make up a piano. There comes a point when they are just past 
> their useful life. Sometimes they can be nudged along for awhile, but the 
> clock is always ticking.
> 
> The general rule of thumb for the useful life of a piano, from one of the 
> great builders, is about fifty years. It is about then that a rebuild is 
> necessary. I would suggest that you do searches on the topics of rebuilding, 
> restoring, and refurbishing. The terms have very different meanings. These 
> topics have been well covered at PW.
> 
> Often inexperienced (1st. time) piano owners are unaware of maintenance other 
> than regular tuning. Within the 50 year life, depending on usage, one should 
> expect multiple new sets of hammers and possibly a new set of strings. Again 
> based on use, about every five years a piano will need a thorough action 
> regulation and voicing. These are not hard and fast rules, but a guide for a 
> well maintained piano.
> 
> What it all boils down to is that pianos over 100 years old will need 
> considerable work if they have not had a total rebuild within about the last 
> 25 years or so. Also, there are only a handful of manufacturer's instruments 
> which are worth the investment. That is why you hear "run away" or "kindling" 
> when a newcomer asks about a 1893 Whatever & Sons, in lovely condition, built 
> in Obscura Ohio, by a blacksmith, who also made milking stools. The original 
> owner was always a concert pianist and most likely the "good as new" piano is 
> "discovered" on Craigslist. It just goes with the territory. The lesson has 
> been learned over and over again. 
> 
> Of the American builders, here's the handy list:
> 
> Steinway & Sons
> Mason & Hamlin
> Baldwin
> Chickering - pre-WWII
> Knabe - pre-WWII
> 
> There will probably be many responses with the "you forgots" and the "how 
> 'bouts." I didn't forget them, I chose to forget them for reason. There are 
> endless possibilities, but as a beginner, I would suggest that you play it a 
> bit safe and stay with the known commodities.
> 
> Pianos which were built to last, have proven that they do last. But, as you 
> see, it is a very short list and even those need proper maintenance 
> throughout their various incarnations by means of rebuilding.
> 
> It all boils down to an old piano is still an old piano. They wear out. Many 
> can be brought back to life. All it takes is $$$.
> 
> You would be doing yourself a favor if you were looking in the direction of 
> quality studio or console pianos from the late 1980's-90's.


Take it for what it's worth, but this is coming from guys who make their 
livings doing this.

Dan



On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

> When I get home tonight I'll go into detail. I have a LOT of notes from my 
> discussions with these guys. It's pretty fascinating to me...
> 
> Dan

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[Allan Streib]

Michael Canfield  writes:

> I think I will adapt the high idle knob from my NA coupe.  Been wanting to
> do that.  Now I have more motivation.

If you try to idle very much faster than stock on a turbo the turbo will
spool up and the engine will start to race.  At least that's what I've
experienced when I've tried to use the throttle to "fast idle" my OM617
300D while waiting for the school bus on winter mornings.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Like Buttah

[Allan Streib]

Mountain Man  writes:

> Cray used to be in Colorado Springs, when we lived there.
> I guess with cloud computing and BigBlue Cray is not as super as they
> used to be.

That encarnation of the Cray line of companies went bankrupt in 1995.
Cray started in Chippewa Falls, hometown of Seymour Cray, and still have
an engineering center there.  Cray Inc. is headquarterd in Seattle.

They are still a major player in the supercomputer market.  As recently
as last year they had the fastest supercomputer in the world, with
nearly a quarter of a million processing cores.

Should be interesting to learn about, I've not worked with systems on
anything like that scale before.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Max Dillon]

Moved both of SWMBO's pianos from Italy to Charleston in 1999.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

WILTON  wrote:

>Military evidently changed policy since moving SWMBO's upright from
>Raleigh, 
>NC, to MI UP in '71, to CA in '75 and to Goldsboro, NC, in '79, then.
>
>Wilton
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Dan Penoff" 
>To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:47 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
>
>
>> There are tons of them here, but many of them are spinets and
>uprights 
>> that have been more or less abandoned from lack of use.
>>
>> Lots of nice small (baby) grands. For under $5k you pretty much have
>your 
>> pick.
>>
>> I just looked at a really nice Yamaha grand last week that was a one
>owner 
>> well maintained piano that probably cost the OP upwards of $15k about
>5-6 
>> years ago. You could get it today for probably $4500 if you had cash
>in 
>> hand.
>>
>> Too bad they were transferred to another post - the military won't
>ship 
>> pianos
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Randy Bennell 
>wrote:
>>
>>> I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
>>> I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a
>fortune 
>>> here.
>>> Pianos are probably no exception.
>>> If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some
>real 
>>> competition then prices are likely better.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the
>last
 few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

 1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out
>over 
 time

 2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has
>been
 well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to
>perform
 properly.

 3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
 then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the
>value
 of the instrument.

 4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off
>after
 5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

 5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
 taste. What appeals to one may not to another.

 6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there
>are
 expensive "cheap" pianos.

 7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
 perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

 Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

 As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
 electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology
>advances.

 Dan

 On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell 
>wrote:

> Let me suggest another issue.
>
> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their
>value 
> very well or maybe even appreciate in value.
> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps
>coming 
> along and the old stuff is junked.
>
> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you
>look 
> for a used one that is no longer state of the art.
> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
>
> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with
>the 
> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back
>on a 
> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had
>
> several in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy
>electronic 
> one for the capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony
>grand - 
> Balwin I believe. It has a built in humidifier.
> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with
>water.
>
> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical
>talent
>
>
> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
>> We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha 
>> Clavinova for
>> half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action
>(and 
>> sound)
>> are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that
>really 
>> sold us
>> on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't 
>> climate-controlled
>> most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the 
>> acoustic
>> pianos.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
>> To: Mercedes List
>> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
>>
>> I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start
>taking 
>> piano
>> lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.
>>
>> While I c

Re: [MBZ] outa' ideas - re: tach & AC stopping

[Max Dillon]

I think you need to ensure the circuit and all components that generate the 
tachometer signal need to be checked, and if they are fine then replace KLIMA 
relay with new.  If the tachometer signal drops, the KLIMA will see a mismatch 
between engine speed and compressor speed and shut off the AC.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

"G. M. Brown"  wrote:

>
>Well guys, I drove my '85 300TD earlier after resoldering the Klima
>Relay PCB yesterday and, as per usual, the AC & tach worked fine from
>startup but both shut off after ~10-15 min.  Anybody got any other
>ideas as to where to look to resolve this malady?  TIA.
> 
>G. M. Brown
>Brevard, NC  
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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[ernest breakfield]

sorry; i thought we were talking about a situation you were encountering 
from a start after an idle.


perhaps i should have said "what do your operating temps fall to at 
an idle?"



cheers!
e

On 05/Sep/12 15:25, Michael Canfield wrote:

I live in a very hilly area of New York.  I never have a problem getting up
to proper operating temp.  I am running NA gears in a turbo car as well so
it runs quite a bit higher rpm's than a normal turbo car at the same
speed.  That helps keep it cleaned out some.
   I also live by Dr.Booth's drive it like you stole it motto to keep it
free of carbon.

   Either way a good hill will push it from 90 up to 110 and hold there
steady.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 5:49 PM, "ernest breakfield"
wrote:


what are your regular operating temps when running WVO?
 lots of people in the BioFleet here running WVO, and many of them have
found that the waste heat from burning WVO simply isn't enough to keep the
engine and coolant up to what would be considered normal operating temps
unless running at load down the hwy, and many have gone to warmer
thermostats in an effort to try to keep the temps up closer to where they
belong around town so they don't load the engine up with unburnt WVO.
(that's what contaminates oil and ends up being the death of the majority
of the former WVO candidates that are crowding the salvage yards around
here to the point that you can't give them a 617 unless you also tow it to
their doorstep.)


cheers!
e
Berkeley, CA
300D (80K+ on B99)

On 05/Sep/12 12:07, Michael Canfield wrote:


Grant,
I think you may have nailed it.  It only happens on extended idle,
usually in colder weather and more often with higher wvo concentrations.
It never puffs smoke on startup(valve seals do that) and only on occasion.

Thanks, Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 2:01 PM, "G Mann"   wrote:

  "sit and idle" are the operative words here I think.. A diesel engine at

idle will stack unburned/poorly burned fuel in the cylinders and exhaust
when idled for any period of time.

This is due to the lower combustion rate in the unloaded engine and
slight
overfuel condition to sustain idle [so I'm told] which is why the new
rules for parking semi tractors went into effect. When they start pulling
after idle they smoked and rolled coal.

Could be you have one or more fuel nozzles that are not still making a
good
spray pattern, which gives large droplets of fuel which take more heat
and
energy to light off, available at higher speeds and greater loads on the
engine.

Just a few thoughts,

Grant...

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Michael Canfield
wrote:
After letting my 300d sit and idle it sometimes blows a quite large


cloud


of oil smoke out the exhaust as soon as I stomp it to the floor and go


down


the road.  I am guessing at bad turbo seals.  What else could I look
for?
I am wondering if there is a different turbo I can run for a bit more
boost if I have to replace it.  I recently sold my hot rod Beetle so now


my


son and I have decided the Benz should be our next "rice eater".  Lol

Thanks, Mike
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  __**_

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[Michael Canfield]

I live in a very hilly area of New York.  I never have a problem getting up
to proper operating temp.  I am running NA gears in a turbo car as well so
it runs quite a bit higher rpm's than a normal turbo car at the same
speed.  That helps keep it cleaned out some.
  I also live by Dr.Booth's drive it like you stole it motto to keep it
free of carbon.

  Either way a good hill will push it from 90 up to 110 and hold there
steady.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 5:49 PM, "ernest breakfield" 
wrote:

> what are your regular operating temps when running WVO?
> lots of people in the BioFleet here running WVO, and many of them have
> found that the waste heat from burning WVO simply isn't enough to keep the
> engine and coolant up to what would be considered normal operating temps
> unless running at load down the hwy, and many have gone to warmer
> thermostats in an effort to try to keep the temps up closer to where they
> belong around town so they don't load the engine up with unburnt WVO.
> (that's what contaminates oil and ends up being the death of the majority
> of the former WVO candidates that are crowding the salvage yards around
> here to the point that you can't give them a 617 unless you also tow it to
> their doorstep.)
>
>
> cheers!
> e
> Berkeley, CA
> 300D (80K+ on B99)
>
> On 05/Sep/12 12:07, Michael Canfield wrote:
>
>> Grant,
>>I think you may have nailed it.  It only happens on extended idle,
>> usually in colder weather and more often with higher wvo concentrations.
>> It never puffs smoke on startup(valve seals do that) and only on occasion.
>>
>> Thanks, Mike
>> On Sep 5, 2012 2:01 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
>>
>>  "sit and idle" are the operative words here I think.. A diesel engine at
>>> idle will stack unburned/poorly burned fuel in the cylinders and exhaust
>>> when idled for any period of time.
>>>
>>> This is due to the lower combustion rate in the unloaded engine and
>>> slight
>>> overfuel condition to sustain idle [so I'm told] which is why the new
>>> rules for parking semi tractors went into effect. When they start pulling
>>> after idle they smoked and rolled coal.
>>>
>>> Could be you have one or more fuel nozzles that are not still making a
>>> good
>>> spray pattern, which gives large droplets of fuel which take more heat
>>> and
>>> energy to light off, available at higher speeds and greater loads on the
>>> engine.
>>>
>>> Just a few thoughts,
>>>
>>> Grant...
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Michael Canfield>>
 wrote:
After letting my 300d sit and idle it sometimes blows a quite large

>>> cloud
>>>
 of oil smoke out the exhaust as soon as I stomp it to the floor and go

>>> down
>>>
 the road.  I am guessing at bad turbo seals.  What else could I look
 for?
I am wondering if there is a different turbo I can run for a bit more
 boost if I have to replace it.  I recently sold my hot rod Beetle so now

>>> my
>>>
 son and I have decided the Benz should be our next "rice eater".  Lol

 Thanks, Mike
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>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: [MBZ] Temp sensor replacement - Fail...

[Fmiser]

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> As I dug around to get it back can you imagine what I found?
> ANOTHER SENSOR! I mean a loose one, hanging out...

> Anyway the new sensor makes no difference, same odd temp
> behavior as before. Its now time to pull the cluster (a new
> one for me on a 201) and swap in my spare gauge.

Sound to me like a previous owner had the same symptoms and so
was replacing the temperature sensor and dropped it.

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[Michael Canfield]

I think I will adapt the high idle knob from my NA coupe.  Been wanting to
do that.  Now I have more motivation.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 5:54 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:

> Ah... the WVO heritic... haha..
> NOW I understand why the extended idle times.
> Add to the equation the oil is cool.. or cold and doesn't atomize as well.
>
> Suggest you may want to rig a fast idle device [Boden cable perhaps with a
> length of light chain at the engine end [to allow flex when normal
> driving].
>
> I have such an arrangement on my ranch trucks to fast idle when using PTO
> for dump bed, for example..
>
> If you bump the idle up a couple hundred RPM problem should minimize and
> temps will be higher for the engine for cleaner burn of the WMO...
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Grant...
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Michael Canfield  >wrote:
>
> > Grant,
> >   I think you may have nailed it.  It only happens on extended idle,
> > usually in colder weather and more often with higher wvo concentrations.
> > It never puffs smoke on startup(valve seals do that) and only on
> occasion.
> >
> > Thanks, Mike
> > On Sep 5, 2012 2:01 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
> >
> > > "sit and idle" are the operative words here I think.. A diesel engine
> at
> > > idle will stack unburned/poorly burned fuel in the cylinders and
> exhaust
> > > when idled for any period of time.
> > >
> > > This is due to the lower combustion rate in the unloaded engine and
> > slight
> > > overfuel condition to sustain idle [so I'm told] which is why the
> new
> > > rules for parking semi tractors went into effect. When they start
> pulling
> > > after idle they smoked and rolled coal.
> > >
> > > Could be you have one or more fuel nozzles that are not still making a
> > good
> > > spray pattern, which gives large droplets of fuel which take more heat
> > and
> > > energy to light off, available at higher speeds and greater loads on
> the
> > > engine.
> > >
> > > Just a few thoughts,
> > >
> > > Grant...
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Michael Canfield  > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > >   After letting my 300d sit and idle it sometimes blows a quite large
> > > cloud
> > > > of oil smoke out the exhaust as soon as I stomp it to the floor and
> go
> > > down
> > > > the road.  I am guessing at bad turbo seals.  What else could I look
> > for?
> > > >   I am wondering if there is a different turbo I can run for a bit
> more
> > > > boost if I have to replace it.  I recently sold my hot rod Beetle so
> > now
> > > my
> > > > son and I have decided the Benz should be our next "rice eater".  Lol
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Mike
> > > > ___
> > > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >
> > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Yea, I moved that old piano of ours 2 times.  When we first bought 
it, the wife and I moved it by ourselves.  NOT FUN.  When we moved 
in here, we had it moved, well, we hired movers to move the big 
stuff, including the piano.  I am sure they were not professional 
piano movers.  I am sure that thing is so heavy it is causing the 
floor to sag where it sits, or at least it seems like it (we have 
a crawl space).


On 9/5/2012 5:10 PM, Mountain Man wrote:

Dan wrote:

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

My son is an RPT, and ASE mechanic.
The piano he obtained, no cost, to learn the trade was in the lower
level of a split level house.  They guy was ready to take hatchet to
it to get it out of the house - an old upright.  He removed much trim
and carpet so the movers could get it out - the movers were the
expense of this piano, you don't want to move a piano - pay  a mover.
Old pianos can always be had for nothing, since the real expense is
getting it moved to a new location.  Huge, heavy dense, old wood =
real heavy.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

FWIW I have always wanted to play the piano also.

On 9/5/2012 4:08 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

When I get home tonight I'll go into detail. I have a LOT of notes from my 
discussions with these guys. It's pretty fascinating to me...

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Craig  wrote:


On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 16:37:21 -0400 Dan Penoff  wrote:


I could go into the detail they did, but this is not the place.

Why not? The thread is already marked "OT".



Pin blocks are the other big area when it comes to repairs and
rebuilding. A pin block has a static life, and after time must be
replaced to maintain the instrument in tune.

We need a new pin block/pin block repair in our 100+ year old Chickering.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Or tv repair men, stereo repair men

On 9/5/2012 3:54 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:


We spent more money on a piano than it is worth a number of 
years back.
It is an old upright grand piano made in Toronto in something 
like 1926.

We had all of the wound strings replaced.

The fellow who did it for us is a little fellow from Sri Lanka.

I have talked to him recently and he is suffering from the same 
problem as many other businesses.
People can buy a new junk piano for less than it costs to buy 
and maintain an older decent piano so they get the new one.

The parts inside are plastic but the finish is nice.

So my Sri Lankan fellow is struggling to make a living.

I know a fellow who has a sewing machine repair shop. Same sort 
of thing. People won't pay what it costs to have a decent older 
machine cleaned and serviced because they can buy a new plastic 
one at Wal-Mart for very little money. Singer will sell them to 
Wal-Mart for less than the small dealers so he cannot compete 
with Wal-Mart.


Randy

On 05/09/2012 3:32 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote:
Your statements do not conform to my experience.  My mom gave 
us a circa
1950s Baldwin (I think it is called a console).  Our kids were 
getting
lessons for a while.  We called in a technician to tune it and 
he found the
sounding board to be cracked (many small cracks or surface 
"checking").  He
injected hot epoxy into the cracks and made it better than new 
for maybe
$300 IIRC.  I am not aware of anything major other than the 
sounding board

that can go wrong with a quality piano.

YMMV

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:16 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over 
the last few

months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear 
out over

time

2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has 
been well
maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to 
perform properly.


3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and 
even then the

cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value of the
instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling 
off after

5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference 
and taste.

What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then 
there are

expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech 
to perform a

PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like 
any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology 
advances.


Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  
wrote:



Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold 
their value very

well or maybe even appreciate in value.
Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps 
coming

along and the old stuff is junked.
So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that 
you look for

a used one that is no longer state of the art.

If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy 
with the
current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go 
back on a
regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and 
had several
in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic 
one for the
capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - 
Balwin I

believe. It has a built in humidifier.
There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled 
with water.


Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical 
talent



On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha
Clavinova for half the price of an acoustic piano.  The 
Clavinova's
key action (and sound) are very like a good acoustic piano 
IMO.  But
the thing that really sold us on the digital piano was 
maintenance.
Our church isn't climate-controlled most of the time (60-80 
degree

range) and that was hard on the acoustic pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start 
taking

piano lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would
rather invest in a decent digital piano that has good action 
first.

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Mountain Man]

Dan wrote:
> I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
> few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

My son is an RPT, and ASE mechanic.
The piano he obtained, no cost, to learn the trade was in the lower
level of a split level house.  They guy was ready to take hatchet to
it to get it out of the house - an old upright.  He removed much trim
and carpet so the movers could get it out - the movers were the
expense of this piano, you don't want to move a piano - pay  a mover.
Old pianos can always be had for nothing, since the real expense is
getting it moved to a new location.  Huge, heavy dense, old wood =
real heavy.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

We have a old 1940's upright grand that the wife bought at a 
salvation army store, I wish we would get rid of it.  All I know 
is aside from a couple of keys that stick, it sounds good FWIW.


On 9/5/2012 3:32 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote:

Your statements do not conform to my experience.  My mom gave us a circa
1950s Baldwin (I think it is called a console).  Our kids were getting
lessons for a while.  We called in a technician to tune it and he found the
sounding board to be cracked (many small cracks or surface "checking").  He
injected hot epoxy into the cracks and made it better than new for maybe
$300 IIRC.  I am not aware of anything major other than the sounding board
that can go wrong with a quality piano.

YMMV

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:16 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last few
months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over
time

2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been well
maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even then the
cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value of the
instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and taste.
What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to perform a
PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very

well or maybe even appreciate in value.

Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming

along and the old stuff is junked.

So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for

a used one that is no longer state of the art.

If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the

current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a
regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several
in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the
capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I
believe. It has a built in humidifier.

There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.

Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent


On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha
Clavinova for half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's
key action (and sound) are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But
the thing that really sold us on the digital piano was maintenance.
Our church isn't climate-controlled most of the time (60-80 degree
range) and that was hard on the acoustic pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking
piano lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would
rather invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first.
Once I start to become proficient and am sure I want to continue on,
I'll be better suited to find a good acoustic piano that I would
expect to spend a fair amount on and keep for some time.

I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's
almost like trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing,
but what makes one better than the others?

I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic
piano, and
88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.

Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on this?

Thanks,

Dan



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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[John Reames]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the procedure that was previously cited is 
particular to the Bosch type M pumps, which are readily identified by the 
33-tooth spline "touch-me-not" "fastener" that is the delivery valve body (or 
union, depending upon which book you read from)...

The type M pump has both the delivery valve seal (crush washer) and an o-ring 
(which seems to fare poorly with respect to biodiesel and ULSD...)

The car in question is one of the earlier diesels (most 1985's and pre-1985 
US/NA models); they use a Bosch type MW pump which has a bog-standard hex 
outline for the unions.  The unions each screw into a separate steel chamber 
that is attached to the aluminum body of the pump with one nut above and one 
nut below. The MW type pump does not use the worrisome rubber o-rings, just 
copper washers.  If they leak (and only if they leak), loosen them and them 
retorque to 50Nm in one step.  If they continue to leak, order new copper 
washers (I forgot the part number) and replace all of them one at a time.
Wear gloves to protect the parts from fingerprints, etc.  It's not a good idea 
to remove the innards below the union/spring, but if the delivery valve does 
pop out, rinse it in clean diesel fuel or clean fine oil (sewing machine oil) 
(3 in 1 is NOT suitable) and reassemble them; check the bottom surface of each 
union for any scratching or scoring; the finish must be polished or you will 
have leaks. Any unions that are not polished should be replaced, as removing 
material from the bottom of them will increase the pressure on the delivery 
valve... Likewise any that continue to leak should be swapped.  The unions 
themselves can be swapped off of a "donor" pump.

I'd only mess with the pump if it was leaking.

Do you see any air bubbles in the fuel lines? They can develop leaks with age.

Also, if your fuel tank vent is plugged, you can wind up with some roughness 
(and starvation) issues; check that before replacing fuel lines, especially if 
you have ever needed to disassemble the fuel level sender and remove algae 
corpses from it; I've seen the vent line become sufficiently plugged to hold 
about 60psi applied to the vent fitting at the tank. 

The quickest way to test the vent line is to take a long drive then remove the 
fuel cap; after turning the cap, it should rest on the opening--you should not 
need to pull it off, and you should not hear air movement when the cap comes 
off.


--
John W Reames
jream...@verizon.net
Home: +14106646986
Mobile: +14437915905

On Sep 5, 2012, at 15:57, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Depends on how clean the lines and top of the IP are.  You want everything 
> clean enough for surgery first.  No lint, dust, etc.
> 
> I'd say 1-2 hours.  Remove the lines (you have already done that.
> Remove the DV locks (screwdriver or torx)
> If you have the splined DVs, then you need the special socket.  If the DVs 
> are not too torqued,  you sometimes can remove them with the splined lock 
> with a wrench on the tab.  This has never worked for me, and you really need 
> the socket to get the right torque on reassembly.
> Remove the DV holders and keep in order, or I do one at a time.
> Use a pick to pull out the old copper seal.  Inspect...  find a culprit?  
> (best to determine the weak cyl first.)
> put in a new copper seal, clean the DV holder, put on a new oring.
> use a new spring and replace DV holder
> Follow specs for tightening procedure and final torque.
> 
>> So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a similar 
>> situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything back together.
>> 
>> If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs and DV 
>> orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if he can't find 
>> them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The copper seal is a one-time 
>> use, and generally if you pull a DV back out, the oring is cut from the 
>> threads too.  A weak DV spring will act the same as a leaky DV seal.  rough 
>> idle.
>> 
>> I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is always one 
>> I want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for seating the DV seal and 
>> the proper torque.
>> 
> 
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] Like Buttah

[Mountain Man]

Allan wrote:
> Speaking of road trips, I may be in the Chippewa Falls area in the near
> future, for training on Cray supercomputers (!).

Cray used to be in Colorado Springs, when we lived there.
I guess with cloud computing and BigBlue Cray is not as super as they
used to be.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[G Mann]

Ah... the WVO heritic... haha..
NOW I understand why the extended idle times.
Add to the equation the oil is cool.. or cold and doesn't atomize as well.

Suggest you may want to rig a fast idle device [Boden cable perhaps with a
length of light chain at the engine end [to allow flex when normal driving].

I have such an arrangement on my ranch trucks to fast idle when using PTO
for dump bed, for example..

If you bump the idle up a couple hundred RPM problem should minimize and
temps will be higher for the engine for cleaner burn of the WMO...

Good Luck,

Grant...
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Michael Canfield wrote:

> Grant,
>   I think you may have nailed it.  It only happens on extended idle,
> usually in colder weather and more often with higher wvo concentrations.
> It never puffs smoke on startup(valve seals do that) and only on occasion.
>
> Thanks, Mike
> On Sep 5, 2012 2:01 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:
>
> > "sit and idle" are the operative words here I think.. A diesel engine at
> > idle will stack unburned/poorly burned fuel in the cylinders and exhaust
> > when idled for any period of time.
> >
> > This is due to the lower combustion rate in the unloaded engine and
> slight
> > overfuel condition to sustain idle [so I'm told] which is why the new
> > rules for parking semi tractors went into effect. When they start pulling
> > after idle they smoked and rolled coal.
> >
> > Could be you have one or more fuel nozzles that are not still making a
> good
> > spray pattern, which gives large droplets of fuel which take more heat
> and
> > energy to light off, available at higher speeds and greater loads on the
> > engine.
> >
> > Just a few thoughts,
> >
> > Grant...
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Michael Canfield  > >wrote:
> >
> > >   After letting my 300d sit and idle it sometimes blows a quite large
> > cloud
> > > of oil smoke out the exhaust as soon as I stomp it to the floor and go
> > down
> > > the road.  I am guessing at bad turbo seals.  What else could I look
> for?
> > >   I am wondering if there is a different turbo I can run for a bit more
> > > boost if I have to replace it.  I recently sold my hot rod Beetle so
> now
> > my
> > > son and I have decided the Benz should be our next "rice eater".  Lol
> > >
> > > Thanks, Mike
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Fmiser]

> Dan Penoff wrote:

> I would have thought much the same, but after spending time
> online and locally with some very well respected piano
> technicians, this is not the case.

So - do you want a Pebbles Beach quality car, or one that just
looks pretty good and drives nice.

It's that kind of difference.  

> Sort of like jig welding a rear trailing arm for a 123 or 126.
> Functionally, it works. To a technician, who is trained to
> adjust and voice a piano, the difference is apparent and
> affects the tone of the instrument forever.

Hmmm, no...  I'd say more like putting Monroe dampers (shock
absorbers) on.  Or replacing the stereo with a JVC.  Or removing
the EGR system.  These all make it NOT factory.  It doesn't mean
the usefulness of the device is gone.  

Is it acceptable to drive a Mercedes with a broken hood
ornament?  Or one that the back windows don't roll up and down
because the regulators are bent?   Or not all the doors unlock
via vacuum?   There are some of us that find it not worth the
money necessary to put and keep a car at factory perfect
status.  The same is true of a piano.

> Just as an example, does anyone realize the amount of pressure
> the strings exert on the frame? Literally thousands of pounds.

Total.  Not per string.  There are 88 "notes".  About 2/3rds of
those use three strings.  Most of the rest use two strings.  A
few of the lowest use only one.  So there is a total of over 200
strings.  30,000 to 40,000 pounds tension, total, is typical.
There is still a lot of tension on each string.

--  Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[ernest breakfield]

what are your regular operating temps when running WVO?
lots of people in the BioFleet here running WVO, and many of them 
have found that the waste heat from burning WVO simply isn't enough to 
keep the engine and coolant up to what would be considered normal 
operating temps unless running at load down the hwy, and many have gone 
to warmer thermostats in an effort to try to keep the temps up closer to 
where they belong around town so they don't load the engine up with 
unburnt WVO. (that's what contaminates oil and ends up being the death 
of the majority of the former WVO candidates that are crowding the 
salvage yards around here to the point that you can't give them a 617 
unless you also tow it to their doorstep.)



cheers!
e
Berkeley, CA
300D (80K+ on B99)

On 05/Sep/12 12:07, Michael Canfield wrote:

Grant,
   I think you may have nailed it.  It only happens on extended idle,
usually in colder weather and more often with higher wvo concentrations.
It never puffs smoke on startup(valve seals do that) and only on occasion.

Thanks, Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 2:01 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:


"sit and idle" are the operative words here I think.. A diesel engine at
idle will stack unburned/poorly burned fuel in the cylinders and exhaust
when idled for any period of time.

This is due to the lower combustion rate in the unloaded engine and slight
overfuel condition to sustain idle [so I'm told] which is why the new
rules for parking semi tractors went into effect. When they start pulling
after idle they smoked and rolled coal.

Could be you have one or more fuel nozzles that are not still making a good
spray pattern, which gives large droplets of fuel which take more heat and
energy to light off, available at higher speeds and greater loads on the
engine.

Just a few thoughts,

Grant...

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Michael Canfield
wrote:
   After letting my 300d sit and idle it sometimes blows a quite large

cloud

of oil smoke out the exhaust as soon as I stomp it to the floor and go

down

the road.  I am guessing at bad turbo seals.  What else could I look for?
   I am wondering if there is a different turbo I can run for a bit more
boost if I have to replace it.  I recently sold my hot rod Beetle so now

my

son and I have decided the Benz should be our next "rice eater".  Lol

Thanks, Mike
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[MBZ] Temp sensor replacement - Fail...

[Curt Raymond]

Finally got time to put Fred's replacement temp sensor into my '84 190D. 
Remember I've been seeing the temp gauge run up over 100C while just cruising 
along. New radiator, thermostat, radiator cap, proper coolant. Temp seems to 
bounce around semi-randomly.

The replacement of the sensor is fairly easy although I dropped the sensor the 
first time I tried to put it in. As I dug around to get it back can you imagine 
what I found? ANOTHER SENSOR! I mean a loose one, hanging out...

I can't get it out of there though, its caught down between the IP and the 
block, its under a lip and theres very little space. Its mostly non-magnetic so 
I can't get it that way. I need to get one of those wire finger jobbies to 
reach in with. Weird.

Anyway the new sensor makes no difference, same odd temp behavior as before. 
Its now time to pull the cluster (a new one for me on a 201) and swap in my 
spare gauge.

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options

[Frederick Moir]

Curt, et al.
I'm just offering to bring these bits to the Q.
Work is some thing to be allergic to.
 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.


>
> From: Curt Raymond 
>To: Diesel List  
>Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 3:34 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options
> 
>I put a center cap in a wheel once ;)
>
>No I think any serious working on cars would get us thrown out of the park. 
>Its move of a time to stand around and BS. There is some small measure of 
>parts swapping that goes on but thats about it.
>
>Oh and food, there will be lots of food.
>
>-Curt
>
>Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:46:10 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Dimitri Seretakis 
>To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options
>Message-ID:
>    <1346870770.96810.yext-apple-iph...@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Fred,
>That would be very much appreciated! How about a pencil glow plug reamer? My 
>reamer is for loop plugs.
>Since I've never been to a ChowdaQ, do we work on cars at this event? 
>
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Frederick Moir  wrote:
>
>Dimitri, et al.
>I'll bring my HF compression tester, with injector adapter, to the Q, so that 
>you can try it at your leisure. (Does anyone have any of that to spare?)
>Also, the DV tool may fit you IP holders, I'll bring that too.
>Next?
>
>Fred Moir
>Lynn MA
>Diesel preferred.
>
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[Curt Raymond]

Which reminds me I saw a Type IV near our house the other day. Its in rough 
shape but is being driven at least a little. The guy at the end of our street 
is a VW guy, has an old split window bus and a Beatle. I *think* he owns a body 
shop that has a couple other old VWs hanging out.

My mom had a fastback when I was very young. Dad tells some funny stories about 
bringing the car to northern Maine when he married my mother. He says in the 
depths of winter he used to sneak into the garage, shoot starting fluid into 
the airbox and crank it over all in one swift motion because if the car knew 
you were coming it would refuse to start. Strangely it never refused to start 
to bring my mother home.
Of course at -20F the heat was woefully inadequate so Dad bought a catalytic 
propane heater that lived in the passenger's footwell. It would warm the car 
but you had to be careful because it could melt the dash. The car is long gone 
(threw a rod right out of the block) but the heater lives on in my Uncle's 
vintage Taylorcraft.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 13:39:31 -0700
From: "Greg Fiorentino" 
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless
Message-ID: <01e201cd8ba6$8e889480$ab99bd80$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"

It's certainly a VW Type III, but whether a fastback or squareback I can't
tell.  I worked for a VW dealer at the time these were on the market, so
recognized the louvred right-rear quarter panel immediately.

BTW, I have read that the Jetta/Passat bodies are based on the Type III.

Greg

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Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options

[Frederick Moir]

Dimitri.
Not sure if I have one, will check.
 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.


>
> From: Dimitri Seretakis 
>To: Mercedes Discussion List  
>Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 2:46 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options
> 
>Fred,
>That would be very much appreciated! How about a pencil glow plug reamer? My 
>reamer is for loop plugs.
>Since I've never been to a ChowdaQ, do we work on cars at this event? 
>
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Frederick Moir  wrote:
>
>Dimitri, et al.
>I'll bring my HF compression tester, with injector adapter, to the Q, so that 
>you can try it at your leisure. (Does anyone have any of that to spare?)
>Also, the DV tool may fit you IP holders, I'll bring that too.
>Next?
>
>Fred Moir
>Lynn MA
>Diesel preferred.
>
>
>
>From: Dimitri Seretakis 
>To: Mercedes Discussion List  
>Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:22 PM
>Subject: [MBZ] Compression tester options
>
>Well I just realized that the one and only adaptor my tester has is for loop 
>style plug holes. That's not going to work for an 82 240D with pencil glows. 
>Short of the obvious, get my arse over to Horror Fright and just get a new el 
>cheapo set-up, do I have any other quick and dirty options to remedy this 
>situation? 
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

When I get home tonight I'll go into detail. I have a LOT of notes from my 
discussions with these guys. It's pretty fascinating to me...

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Craig  wrote:

> On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 16:37:21 -0400 Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
>> I could go into the detail they did, but this is not the place.
> 
> Why not? The thread is already marked "OT".
> 
> 
>> Pin blocks are the other big area when it comes to repairs and
>> rebuilding. A pin block has a static life, and after time must be
>> replaced to maintain the instrument in tune.
> 
> We need a new pin block/pin block repair in our 100+ year old Chickering.
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

This has been an issue for the industry since the early 90s.

A number of manufacturers have farmed out production to the Chinese, with the 
accompanying issues one would expect.

Some Chinese startup companies have come in and been making substandard 
instruments as well, or making what is known in the industry as "stencils", 
which is another name for brand labeling.

Older pianos can be fine, it's just that there are a lot of them out there that 
are past the point of being good instruments without spending far more that 
they are worth to get them in shape.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 4:54 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> 
> We spent more money on a piano than it is worth a number of years back.
> It is an old upright grand piano made in Toronto in something like 1926.
> We had all of the wound strings replaced.
> 
> The fellow who did it for us is a little fellow from Sri Lanka.
> 
> I have talked to him recently and he is suffering from the same problem as 
> many other businesses.
> People can buy a new junk piano for less than it costs to buy and maintain an 
> older decent piano so they get the new one.
> The parts inside are plastic but the finish is nice.
> 
> So my Sri Lankan fellow is struggling to make a living.
> 
> I know a fellow who has a sewing machine repair shop. Same sort of thing. 
> People won't pay what it costs to have a decent older machine cleaned and 
> serviced because they can buy a new plastic one at Wal-Mart for very little 
> money. Singer will sell them to Wal-Mart for less than the small dealers so 
> he cannot compete with Wal-Mart.
> 
> Randy
> 
> On 05/09/2012 3:32 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote:
>> Your statements do not conform to my experience.  My mom gave us a circa
>> 1950s Baldwin (I think it is called a console).  Our kids were getting
>> lessons for a while.  We called in a technician to tune it and he found the
>> sounding board to be cracked (many small cracks or surface "checking").  He
>> injected hot epoxy into the cracks and made it better than new for maybe
>> $300 IIRC.  I am not aware of anything major other than the sounding board
>> that can go wrong with a quality piano.
>> 
>> YMMV
>> 
>> Greg
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:16 PM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
>> 
>> I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last few
>> months, and what I have found is rather interesting:
>> 
>> 1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over
>> time
>> 
>> 2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been well
>> maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform properly.
>> 
>> 3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even then the
>> cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value of the
>> instrument.
>> 
>> 4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
>> 5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.
>> 
>> 5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and taste.
>> What appeals to one may not to another.
>> 
>> 6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
>> expensive "cheap" pianos.
>> 
>> 7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to perform a
>> PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.
>> 
>> Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.
>> 
>> As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
>> electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
>> 
>>> Let me suggest another issue.
>>> 
>>> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very
>> well or maybe even appreciate in value.
>>> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming
>> along and the old stuff is junked.
>>> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for
>> a used one that is no longer state of the art.
>>> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
>>> 
>>> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the
>> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a
>> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several
>> in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the
>> capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I
>> believe. It has a built in humidifier.
>>> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
>>> 
>>> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
 We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha
 Clavinova for half the price of an

[MBZ] pianos

[Randy Bennell]

This is what my wife's piano likely originally looked like. The 
"carvings" on the upper front panel were removed before we got it.


Randy

http://www.junkables.com/jimages/memproductimages/2512/Mendelssohn.jpg

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Craig]

On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 16:37:21 -0400 Dan Penoff  wrote:

> I could go into the detail they did, but this is not the place.

Why not? The thread is already marked "OT".


> Pin blocks are the other big area when it comes to repairs and
> rebuilding. A pin block has a static life, and after time must be
> replaced to maintain the instrument in tune.

We need a new pin block/pin block repair in our 100+ year old Chickering.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Like Buttah

[Michael Canfield]

Interesting.

Thanks, Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 11:36 AM, "Allan Streib"  wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_Friedrichshafen_AG
>
> They are/were a supplier to Ford.
>
> Allan
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012, at 10:43 AM, Michael Canfield wrote:
> > Is the Benz tranny actually called a ZF 5?  Odd seeing that is the heavy
> > duty 5 speed in Ford trucks as well.  Obviously not the same trans but
> same
> > designation.
> >
> > Mike
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Randy Bennell]

We spent more money on a piano than it is worth a number of years back.
It is an old upright grand piano made in Toronto in something like 1926.
We had all of the wound strings replaced.

The fellow who did it for us is a little fellow from Sri Lanka.

I have talked to him recently and he is suffering from the same problem 
as many other businesses.
People can buy a new junk piano for less than it costs to buy and 
maintain an older decent piano so they get the new one.

The parts inside are plastic but the finish is nice.

So my Sri Lankan fellow is struggling to make a living.

I know a fellow who has a sewing machine repair shop. Same sort of 
thing. People won't pay what it costs to have a decent older machine 
cleaned and serviced because they can buy a new plastic one at Wal-Mart 
for very little money. Singer will sell them to Wal-Mart for less than 
the small dealers so he cannot compete with Wal-Mart.


Randy

On 05/09/2012 3:32 PM, Greg Fiorentino wrote:

Your statements do not conform to my experience.  My mom gave us a circa
1950s Baldwin (I think it is called a console).  Our kids were getting
lessons for a while.  We called in a technician to tune it and he found the
sounding board to be cracked (many small cracks or surface "checking").  He
injected hot epoxy into the cracks and made it better than new for maybe
$300 IIRC.  I am not aware of anything major other than the sounding board
that can go wrong with a quality piano.

YMMV

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:16 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last few
months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over
time

2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been well
maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even then the
cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value of the
instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and taste.
What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to perform a
PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very

well or maybe even appreciate in value.

Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming

along and the old stuff is junked.

So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for

a used one that is no longer state of the art.

If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the

current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a
regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several
in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the
capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I
believe. It has a built in humidifier.

There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.

Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent


On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha
Clavinova for half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's
key action (and sound) are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But
the thing that really sold us on the digital piano was maintenance.
Our church isn't climate-controlled most of the time (60-80 degree
range) and that was hard on the acoustic pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking
piano lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would
rather invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first.
Once I start to become proficient and am sure I want to continue on,
I'll be better suited to find a good acoustic piano that I would

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

I would have thought much the same, but after spending time online and locally 
with some very well respected piano technicians, this is not the case.

I could go into the detail they did, but this is not the place. Suffice to say 
that there are "fixes" such as you describe for older pianos, but they are just 
that - fixes.

Sort of like jig welding a rear trailing arm for a 123 or 126. Functionally, it 
works. To a technician, who is trained to adjust and voice a piano, the 
difference is apparent and affects the tone of the instrument forever.

Just as an example, does anyone realize the amount of pressure the strings 
exert on the frame? Literally thousands of pounds. Think of that tension being 
applied over many years to the frame. Felts in the action dry and lose their 
resilience. Parts of the action, wood and leather among other materials, 
degrade over time.

Pin blocks are the other big area when it comes to repairs and rebuilding. A 
pin block has a static life, and after time must be replaced to maintain the 
instrument in tune.

The epoxy fix is used and appropriate in some cases. For a very high quality 
instrument, the only fix is replacement.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Greg Fiorentino  wrote:

> Your statements do not conform to my experience.  My mom gave us a circa
> 1950s Baldwin (I think it is called a console).  Our kids were getting
> lessons for a while.  We called in a technician to tune it and he found the
> sounding board to be cracked (many small cracks or surface "checking").  He
> injected hot epoxy into the cracks and made it better than new for maybe
> $300 IIRC.  I am not aware of anything major other than the sounding board
> that can go wrong with a quality piano.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> Greg
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:16 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
> 
> I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last few
> months, and what I have found is rather interesting:
> 
> 1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over
> time
> 
> 2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been well
> maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform properly.
> 
> 3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even then the
> cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value of the
> instrument.
> 
> 4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
> 5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.
> 
> 5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and taste.
> What appeals to one may not to another.
> 
> 6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
> expensive "cheap" pianos.
> 
> 7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to perform a
> PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.
> 
> Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.
> 
> As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
> electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
> 
>> Let me suggest another issue.
>> 
>> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very
> well or maybe even appreciate in value.
>> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming
> along and the old stuff is junked.
>> 
>> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for
> a used one that is no longer state of the art.
>> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
>> 
>> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the
> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a
> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several
> in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the
> capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I
> believe. It has a built in humidifier.
>> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
>> 
>> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
>> 
>> 
>> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
>>> We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha 
>>> Clavinova for half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's 
>>> key action (and sound) are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But 
>>> the thing that really sold us on the digital piano was maintenance.  
>>> Our church isn't climate-controlled most of the time (60-80 degree 
>>> range) and that was hard on the acoustic pianos.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
>>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>>> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
>>> Sent: Monday, September 03

Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[Greg Fiorentino]

It's certainly a VW Type III, but whether a fastback or squareback I can't
tell.  I worked for a VW dealer at the time these were on the market, so
recognized the louvred right-rear quarter panel immediately.

BTW, I have read that the Jetta/Passat bodies are based on the Type III.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of relng...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:26 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless


> ...Pretty sure it's a square back volkswagon station wagon with the 
> back converted to a pickup bed.  The rear quarter panel and tail light 
> fits my memory...
> 
> 
That's three of us now who believe it's a Squareback. BTW, back in the day a
friend bought a Fastback and it was an evil handling SOB.

RLE
___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives
http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Greg Fiorentino]

Your statements do not conform to my experience.  My mom gave us a circa
1950s Baldwin (I think it is called a console).  Our kids were getting
lessons for a while.  We called in a technician to tune it and he found the
sounding board to be cracked (many small cracks or surface "checking").  He
injected hot epoxy into the cracks and made it better than new for maybe
$300 IIRC.  I am not aware of anything major other than the sounding board
that can go wrong with a quality piano.

YMMV

Greg

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 12:16 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last few
months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over
time

2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been well
maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even then the
cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value of the
instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and taste.
What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to perform a
PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> Let me suggest another issue.
>
> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very
well or maybe even appreciate in value.
> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming
along and the old stuff is junked.
>
> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for
a used one that is no longer state of the art.
> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
>
> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the
current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a
regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several
in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the
capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I
believe. It has a built in humidifier.
> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
>
> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
>
>
> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
>> We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha 
>> Clavinova for half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's 
>> key action (and sound) are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But 
>> the thing that really sold us on the digital piano was maintenance.  
>> Our church isn't climate-controlled most of the time (60-80 degree 
>> range) and that was hard on the acoustic pianos.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
>> To: Mercedes List
>> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
>>
>> I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking 
>> piano lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.
>>
>> While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would 
>> rather invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. 
>> Once I start to become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, 
>> I'll be better suited to find a good acoustic piano that I would 
>> expect to spend a fair amount on and keep for some time.
>>
>> I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's 
>> almost like trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, 
>> but what makes one better than the others?
>>
>> I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic 
>> piano, and
>> 88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.
>>
>> Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives 
> http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

That wouldn't be a motorcycle - it would be a scooter!

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 4:23 PM, WILTON  wrote:

> 'Wouldn't move a motorcycle with over 50cc engine.
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
> 
> 
>> That was the story. Based on the many military neighbors I have and their 
>> possessions, I sort of questioned it myself.
>> 
>> That being said, I don't recall any of them having pianos, much less a baby 
>> grand. I could see where there might be limits on what they would move when 
>> it comes to something like that.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 4:10 PM, WILTON  wrote:
>> 
>>> Military evidently changed policy since moving SWMBO's upright from 
>>> Raleigh, NC, to MI UP in '71, to CA in '75 and to Goldsboro, NC, in '79, 
>>> then.
>>> 
>>> Wilton
>>> 
>>> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff" 
>>> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
>>> 
>>> 
 There are tons of them here, but many of them are spinets and uprights 
 that have been more or less abandoned from lack of use.
 
 Lots of nice small (baby) grands. For under $5k you pretty much have your 
 pick.
 
 I just looked at a really nice Yamaha grand last week that was a one owner 
 well maintained piano that probably cost the OP upwards of $15k about 5-6 
 years ago. You could get it today for probably $4500 if you had cash in 
 hand.
 
 Too bad they were transferred to another post - the military won't ship 
 pianos
 
 Dan
 
 On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
 
> I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
> I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a fortune 
> here.
> Pianos are probably no exception.
> If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some real 
> competition then prices are likely better.
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
>> few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:
>> 
>> 1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over 
>> time
>> 
>> 2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
>> well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
>> properly.
>> 
>> 3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
>> then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
>> of the instrument.
>> 
>> 4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
>> 5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.
>> 
>> 5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
>> taste. What appeals to one may not to another.
>> 
>> 6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
>> expensive "cheap" pianos.
>> 
>> 7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
>> perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.
>> 
>> Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.
>> 
>> As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
>> electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
>> 
>>> Let me suggest another issue.
>>> 
>>> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value 
>>> very well or maybe even appreciate in value.
>>> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming 
>>> along and the old stuff is junked.
>>> 
>>> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look 
>>> for a used one that is no longer state of the art.
>>> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
>>> 
>>> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
>>> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a 
>>> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had 
>>> several in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic 
>>> one for the capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - 
>>> Balwin I believe. It has a built in humidifier.
>>> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
>>> 
>>> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
 We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha 
 Clavinova for
 half

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[WILTON]

'Wouldn't move a motorcycle with over 50cc engine.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:16 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos


That was the story. Based on the many military neighbors I have and their 
possessions, I sort of questioned it myself.


That being said, I don't recall any of them having pianos, much less a 
baby grand. I could see where there might be limits on what they would 
move when it comes to something like that.


Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 4:10 PM, WILTON  wrote:

Military evidently changed policy since moving SWMBO's upright from 
Raleigh, NC, to MI UP in '71, to CA in '75 and to Goldsboro, NC, in '79, 
then.


Wilton

- Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff" 
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos


There are tons of them here, but many of them are spinets and uprights 
that have been more or less abandoned from lack of use.


Lots of nice small (baby) grands. For under $5k you pretty much have 
your pick.


I just looked at a really nice Yamaha grand last week that was a one 
owner well maintained piano that probably cost the OP upwards of $15k 
about 5-6 years ago. You could get it today for probably $4500 if you 
had cash in hand.


Too bad they were transferred to another post - the military won't ship 
pianos


Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a fortune 
here.

Pianos are probably no exception.
If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some real 
competition then prices are likely better.


Randy


On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out 
over time


2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
of the instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
taste. What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value 
very well or maybe even appreciate in value.
Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming 
along and the old stuff is junked.


So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you 
look for a used one that is no longer state of the art.

If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with 
the current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go 
back on a regular basis ) went through this process a few years back 
and had several in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy 
electronic one for the capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice 
ebony grand - Balwin I believe. It has a built in humidifier.
There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with 
water.


Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent


On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha 
Clavinova for
half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action 
(and sound)
are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really 
sold us
on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't 
climate-controlled
most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the 
acoustic

pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking 
piano

lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would 
rather
invest in a decent digital piano that has good action firs

Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[Dan Penoff]

Sorry if I didn't confirm this earlier.

It is a VW Squareback (Type III for you VW people out there) but may have been 
on some sort of frame.

Chip pointed this out earlier, and it makes sense since the suspension geometry 
is correct relative to the size of the tires and wheels.

Usually when someone throws spacers and larger tires and wheels on these the 
camber, especially on the rear wheels, is really severe.

The remark I made earlier was that the metalwork on the car, despite the 
condition, was very well done. Edges were rolled and finished, and even details 
like the rain gutter were extended all the way around the roof line.

It was definitely running a standard VW engine in the rear, so without closer 
inspection it's hard to say how they had the chassis set up.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:26 PM, "relng...@aol.com"  wrote:

> 
>> ...Pretty sure it's a square back volkswagon station wagon with the back
>> converted to a pickup bed.  The rear quarter panel and tail light fits my
>> memory...
>> 
>> 
> That's three of us now who believe it's a Squareback. BTW, back in the day 
> a friend bought a Fastback and it was an evil handling SOB.
> 
> RLE
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[WILTON]

Moving reminds me:  In '68 when moving from Warner Robins, GA, to Raleigh, 
NC, movers wanted to drive my Karman Ghia up into empty space at rear of 
long trailer for the overnight drive to Raleigh (They'd charge the weight; 
I'd get my 2nd car moved for free.).  'Course, I refused; 'could imagine 
arriving at "new" house in Raleigh the next morning with empty space at rear 
of trailer - no Karman Ghia and no record of its having gone on the truck.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "WILTON" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos


Military evidently changed policy since moving SWMBO's upright from 
Raleigh, NC, to MI UP in '71, to CA in '75 and to Goldsboro, NC, in '79, 
then.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos


There are tons of them here, but many of them are spinets and uprights 
that have been more or less abandoned from lack of use.


Lots of nice small (baby) grands. For under $5k you pretty much have your 
pick.


I just looked at a really nice Yamaha grand last week that was a one 
owner well maintained piano that probably cost the OP upwards of $15k 
about 5-6 years ago. You could get it today for probably $4500 if you had 
cash in hand.


Too bad they were transferred to another post - the military won't ship 
pianos


Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a fortune 
here.

Pianos are probably no exception.
If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some real 
competition then prices are likely better.


Randy


On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out 
over time


2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
of the instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
taste. What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value 
very well or maybe even appreciate in value.
Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming 
along and the old stuff is junked.


So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look 
for a used one that is no longer state of the art.

If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on 
a regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had 
several in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy 
electronic one for the capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice 
ebony grand - Balwin I believe. It has a built in humidifier.

There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.

Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent


On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha 
Clavinova for
half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and 
sound)
are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really 
sold us
on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't 
climate-controlled
most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the 
acoustic

pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking 
piano

lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would 
rather
invest in a decent 

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

That was the story. Based on the many military neighbors I have and their 
possessions, I sort of questioned it myself.

That being said, I don't recall any of them having pianos, much less a baby 
grand. I could see where there might be limits on what they would move when it 
comes to something like that.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 4:10 PM, WILTON  wrote:

> Military evidently changed policy since moving SWMBO's upright from Raleigh, 
> NC, to MI UP in '71, to CA in '75 and to Goldsboro, NC, in '79, then.
> 
> Wilton
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dan Penoff" 
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
> 
> 
>> There are tons of them here, but many of them are spinets and uprights that 
>> have been more or less abandoned from lack of use.
>> 
>> Lots of nice small (baby) grands. For under $5k you pretty much have your 
>> pick.
>> 
>> I just looked at a really nice Yamaha grand last week that was a one owner 
>> well maintained piano that probably cost the OP upwards of $15k about 5-6 
>> years ago. You could get it today for probably $4500 if you had cash in hand.
>> 
>> Too bad they were transferred to another post - the military won't ship 
>> pianos
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
>> 
>>> I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
>>> I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a fortune 
>>> here.
>>> Pianos are probably no exception.
>>> If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some real 
>>> competition then prices are likely better.
>>> 
>>> Randy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
 I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
 few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:
 
 1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over 
 time
 
 2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
 well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
 properly.
 
 3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
 then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
 of the instrument.
 
 4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
 5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.
 
 5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
 taste. What appeals to one may not to another.
 
 6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
 expensive "cheap" pianos.
 
 7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
 perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.
 
 Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.
 
 As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
 electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.
 
 Dan
 
 On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
 
> Let me suggest another issue.
> 
> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value 
> very well or maybe even appreciate in value.
> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming 
> along and the old stuff is junked.
> 
> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look 
> for a used one that is no longer state of the art.
> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
> 
> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a 
> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had 
> several in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic 
> one for the capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - 
> Balwin I believe. It has a built in humidifier.
> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
> 
> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
> 
> 
> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
>> We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha Clavinova 
>> for
>> half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and 
>> sound)
>> are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really sold 
>> us
>> on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't 
>> climate-controlled
>> most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the acoustic
>> pianos.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
>> [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
>> To: Mercedes List
>>>

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[WILTON]

Military evidently changed policy since moving SWMBO's upright from Raleigh, 
NC, to MI UP in '71, to CA in '75 and to Goldsboro, NC, in '79, then.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos


There are tons of them here, but many of them are spinets and uprights 
that have been more or less abandoned from lack of use.


Lots of nice small (baby) grands. For under $5k you pretty much have your 
pick.


I just looked at a really nice Yamaha grand last week that was a one owner 
well maintained piano that probably cost the OP upwards of $15k about 5-6 
years ago. You could get it today for probably $4500 if you had cash in 
hand.


Too bad they were transferred to another post - the military won't ship 
pianos


Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a fortune 
here.

Pianos are probably no exception.
If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some real 
competition then prices are likely better.


Randy


On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over 
time


2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
of the instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
taste. What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value 
very well or maybe even appreciate in value.
Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming 
along and the old stuff is junked.


So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look 
for a used one that is no longer state of the art.

If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a 
regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had 
several in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic 
one for the capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - 
Balwin I believe. It has a built in humidifier.

There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.

Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent


On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha 
Clavinova for
half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and 
sound)
are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really 
sold us
on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't 
climate-controlled
most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the 
acoustic

pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com 
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]

On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking 
piano

lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would rather
invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. Once I 
start to
become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, I'll be better 
suited
to find a good acoustic piano that I would expect to spend a fair 
amount on

and keep for some time.

I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's 
almost like
trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, but what 
makes one

better than the others?

I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic 
piano, and

88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.

Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on 
thi

Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Dieselhead]

Depends on how clean the lines and top of the IP are.  You want 
everything clean enough for surgery first.  No lint, dust, etc.


I'd say 1-2 hours.  Remove the lines (you have already done that.
Remove the DV locks (screwdriver or torx)
If you have the splined DVs, then you need the special socket.  If 
the DVs are not too torqued,  you sometimes can remove them with the 
splined lock with a wrench on the tab.  This has never worked for me, 
and you really need the socket to get the right torque on reassembly.

Remove the DV holders and keep in order, or I do one at a time.
Use a pick to pull out the old copper seal.  Inspect...  find a 
culprit?  (best to determine the weak cyl first.)

put in a new copper seal, clean the DV holder, put on a new oring.
use a new spring and replace DV holder
Follow specs for tightening procedure and final torque.


So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a 
similar situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything 
back together.


If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs 
and DV orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if 
he can't find them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The 
copper seal is a one-time use, and generally if you pull a DV back 
out, the oring is cut from the threads too.  A weak DV spring will 
act the same as a leaky DV seal.  rough idle.


I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is 
always one I want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for 
seating the DV seal and the proper torque.




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Re: [MBZ] LEDs

[RELNGSON]

> ...I don't WANT LED's; just wondered how long it'd be before somebody 
> made units to just plug into regular sockets - an engineering exercise.
> 
> They have been available for about 15 years...
> 
There is no question that LED brake lights add safety since they are much 
more visible and quicker to illuminate but they are also very directional and 
don't use the existing reflector. Designed in, they are excellent. Just the 
other evening I was following a BC licensed new KIA, one of the bigger 
ones, and the rear lights were VERY visible. I tried to count the LEDS in each 
lamp but gave up. MB is slowly converting over to all LED rear lighting. A 
current E-Class with it's all LED rear lights is a spectacular light show at 
night. 

My 2008 has red LED rear turn lights (part of an option package) and the 
2012 C-Class tail lights are all LED except the backup lights. I am 
contemplating importing a pair of 2012 light assemblies with yellow LED rear 
turns 
which are plug and play except the rear SAM must be reprogrammed and MB's 
Developer Software must be used which dealers don't normally have. But, a tech 
for a local dealer does have it and is making some nice money reprogramming 
SAMs that older model C owners are sending to him. Of course, without the rear 
SAM in the car, it can't be driven.

In other parts of the world, MB's have flashing brake lights but they 
aren't certified here and must be LED. The feature only works when BAS (brake 
assist) is activated and then only in a certain speed range. So, the lights 
flash during a panic stop above 40mph but not in slow traffic or when stopped.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

There are tons of them here, but many of them are spinets and uprights that 
have been more or less abandoned from lack of use.

Lots of nice small (baby) grands. For under $5k you pretty much have your pick.

I just looked at a really nice Yamaha grand last week that was a one owner well 
maintained piano that probably cost the OP upwards of $15k about 5-6 years ago. 
You could get it today for probably $4500 if you had cash in hand.

Too bad they were transferred to another post - the military won't ship 
pianos

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
> I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a fortune here.
> Pianos are probably no exception.
> If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some real 
> competition then prices are likely better.
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:
>> I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
>> few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:
>> 
>> 1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over time
>> 
>> 2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
>> well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
>> properly.
>> 
>> 3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
>> then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
>> of the instrument.
>> 
>> 4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
>> 5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.
>> 
>> 5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
>> taste. What appeals to one may not to another.
>> 
>> 6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
>> expensive "cheap" pianos.
>> 
>> 7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
>> perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.
>> 
>> Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.
>> 
>> As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
>> electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:
>> 
>>> Let me suggest another issue.
>>> 
>>> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very 
>>> well or maybe even appreciate in value.
>>> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming along 
>>> and the old stuff is junked.
>>> 
>>> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for 
>>> a used one that is no longer state of the art.
>>> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
>>> 
>>> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
>>> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a 
>>> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several 
>>> in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the 
>>> capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I 
>>> believe. It has a built in humidifier.
>>> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
>>> 
>>> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
 We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha Clavinova 
 for
 half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and 
 sound)
 are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really sold us
 on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't climate-controlled
 most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the acoustic
 pianos.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
 On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
 Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
 To: Mercedes List
 Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
 
 I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking piano
 lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.
 
 While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would rather
 invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. Once I start 
 to
 become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, I'll be better suited
 to find a good acoustic piano that I would expect to spend a fair amount on
 and keep for some time.
 
 I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's almost 
 like
 trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, but what makes one
 better than the others?
 
 I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic piano, and
 88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.
 
 Anyone on the list a keyboard player who

Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Randy Bennell]

I would guess it really depends on where you are too.
I am in Canada and in Winnipeg. We are used to things costing a fortune 
here.

Pianos are probably no exception.
If you are somewhere where there are an abundance of them and some real 
competition then prices are likely better.


Randy


On 05/09/2012 2:16 PM, Dan Penoff wrote:

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over time

2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
of the instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
taste. What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:


Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very well 
or maybe even appreciate in value.
Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming along and 
the old stuff is junked.

So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for a 
used one that is no longer state of the art.
If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the current 
clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a regular basis ) 
went through this process a few years back and had several in to try them out. 
The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the capabilities it had but 
elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I believe. It has a built in 
humidifier.
There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.

Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent


On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha Clavinova for
half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and sound)
are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really sold us
on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't climate-controlled
most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the acoustic
pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking piano
lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would rather
invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. Once I start to
become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, I'll be better suited
to find a good acoustic piano that I would expect to spend a fair amount on
and keep for some time.

I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's almost like
trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, but what makes one
better than the others?

I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic piano, and
88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.

Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on this?

Thanks,

Dan







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Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options

[Curt Raymond]

I put a center cap in a wheel once ;)

No I think any serious working on cars would get us thrown out of the park. Its 
move of a time to stand around and BS. There is some small measure of parts 
swapping that goes on but thats about it.

Oh and food, there will be lots of food.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:46:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dimitri Seretakis 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options
Message-ID:
<1346870770.96810.yext-apple-iph...@web125101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Fred,
That would be very much appreciated! How about a pencil glow plug reamer? My 
reamer is for loop plugs.
Since I've never been to a ChowdaQ, do we work on cars at this event? 


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Frederick Moir  wrote:

Dimitri, et al.
I'll bring my HF compression tester, with injector adapter, to the Q, so that 
you can try it at your leisure. (Does anyone have any of that to spare?)
Also, the DV tool may fit you IP holders, I'll bring that too.
Next?

Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.

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Re: [MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[Michael Canfield]

Had a 73 squareback when I lived in Alabama.  Very ill handling.  If you
had a lot of people in it you could keep the front end from plowing so bad
in a corner but then the body roll was terrifying.

Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 3:26 PM,  wrote:

>
> > ...Pretty sure it's a square back volkswagon station wagon with the back
> > converted to a pickup bed.  The rear quarter panel and tail light fits my
> > memory...
> >
> >
> That's three of us now who believe it's a Squareback. BTW, back in the day
> a friend bought a Fastback and it was an evil handling SOB.
>
> RLE
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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Re: [MBZ] M1 at NAPA

[RELNGSON]

> ...I don't swear they have the eps or whatever you call it formula. If 
> you see it there let me know...
> 
I'll be looking for 5W40 ESP although it's not listed on their website. If 
not, 0W40 is OK. After all, that's what the dealers used for the V-6s since 
the ML sludging debacle and the 5W40 came along much later.

I don't think all the stores have identical stock.

RLE
> 
> 
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[MBZ] Conversion, pointless

[RELNGSON]

> ...Pretty sure it's a square back volkswagon station wagon with the back
> converted to a pickup bed.  The rear quarter panel and tail light fits my
> memory...
> 
> 
That's three of us now who believe it's a Squareback. BTW, back in the day 
a friend bought a Fastback and it was an evil handling SOB.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] Mercedes Digest, Vol 82, Issue 26

[RELNGSON]

> ...Pretty sure it's a square back volkswagon station wagon with the back
> converted to a pickup bed.  The rear quarter panel and tail light fits my
> memory...
> 
That's three of us now who believe it's a Squareback. BTW, back in the day 
a friend bought a Fastback and it was an evil handling SOB.

RLE

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[MBZ] Sorry

[Dan Penoff]

Sorry for the double posts. I'm still sorting out my mail accounts and Kaleb is 
too fast on the trigger for me to cancel the posts from the unsubbed account...

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over time

2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
of the instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
taste. What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> Let me suggest another issue.
> 
> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very 
> well or maybe even appreciate in value.
> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming along 
> and the old stuff is junked.
> 
> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for a 
> used one that is no longer state of the art.
> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
> 
> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a 
> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several in 
> to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the 
> capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I believe. 
> It has a built in humidifier.
> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
> 
> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
> 
> 
> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
>> We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha Clavinova for
>> half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and sound)
>> are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really sold us
>> on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't climate-controlled
>> most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the acoustic
>> pianos.
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
>> To: Mercedes List
>> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
>> 
>> I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking piano
>> lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.
>> 
>> While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would rather
>> invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. Once I start to
>> become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, I'll be better suited
>> to find a good acoustic piano that I would expect to spend a fair amount on
>> and keep for some time.
>> 
>> I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's almost like
>> trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, but what makes one
>> better than the others?
>> 
>> I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic piano, and
>> 88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.
>> 
>> Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Dan Penoff]

I have immersed myself in the piano technician community over the last
few months, and what I have found is rather interesting:

1.) An old piano is just that - old and tired, and they do wear out over time

2.) Any piano that is more that 15-20 years old, even if it has been
well maintained, will require a fair amount of work for it to perform
properly.

3.) There are a very few brands that are worth rebuilding, and even
then the cost to do so is difficult to justify relative to the value
of the instrument.

4.) Pianos depreciate like cars - rapidly at first, leveling off after
5-10 years of age. Few, if any, will ever appreciate.

5.) The choice of a piano is purely one of personal preference and
taste. What appeals to one may not to another.

6.) Price is a relative thing. There are cheap pianos, then there are
expensive "cheap" pianos.

7.) As with buying any used MB, employ a qualified piano tech to
perform a PPI before buying a piano. It's money we'll spent.

Amazing how many parallels there are relative to our MBs.

As for digital keyboards, newer is always better, and yes, like any
electronic instrument, they depreciate rapidly as technology advances.

Dan

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Randy Bennell  wrote:

> Let me suggest another issue.
>
> I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value very 
> well or maybe even appreciate in value.
> Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming along 
> and the old stuff is junked.
>
> So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look for a 
> used one that is no longer state of the art.
> If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.
>
> My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
> current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a 
> regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had several in 
> to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic one for the 
> capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - Balwin I believe. 
> It has a built in humidifier.
> There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.
>
> Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent
>
>
> On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:
>> We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha Clavinova for
>> half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and sound)
>> are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really sold us
>> on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't climate-controlled
>> most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the acoustic
>> pianos.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
>> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
>> To: Mercedes List
>> Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos
>>
>> I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking piano
>> lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.
>>
>> While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would rather
>> invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. Once I start to
>> become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, I'll be better suited
>> to find a good acoustic piano that I would expect to spend a fair amount on
>> and keep for some time.
>>
>> I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's almost like
>> trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, but what makes one
>> better than the others?
>>
>> I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic piano, and
>> 88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.
>>
>> Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
>
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[Michael Canfield]

Grant,
  I think you may have nailed it.  It only happens on extended idle,
usually in colder weather and more often with higher wvo concentrations.
It never puffs smoke on startup(valve seals do that) and only on occasion.

Thanks, Mike
On Sep 5, 2012 2:01 PM, "G Mann"  wrote:

> "sit and idle" are the operative words here I think.. A diesel engine at
> idle will stack unburned/poorly burned fuel in the cylinders and exhaust
> when idled for any period of time.
>
> This is due to the lower combustion rate in the unloaded engine and slight
> overfuel condition to sustain idle [so I'm told] which is why the new
> rules for parking semi tractors went into effect. When they start pulling
> after idle they smoked and rolled coal.
>
> Could be you have one or more fuel nozzles that are not still making a good
> spray pattern, which gives large droplets of fuel which take more heat and
> energy to light off, available at higher speeds and greater loads on the
> engine.
>
> Just a few thoughts,
>
> Grant...
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Michael Canfield  >wrote:
>
> >   After letting my 300d sit and idle it sometimes blows a quite large
> cloud
> > of oil smoke out the exhaust as soon as I stomp it to the floor and go
> down
> > the road.  I am guessing at bad turbo seals.  What else could I look for?
> >   I am wondering if there is a different turbo I can run for a bit more
> > boost if I have to replace it.  I recently sold my hot rod Beetle so now
> my
> > son and I have decided the Benz should be our next "rice eater".  Lol
> >
> > Thanks, Mike
> > ___
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> > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] outa' ideas - re: tach & AC stopping

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

Is there some sort of over temp or over pressure switch that is kicking in when 
it should not?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:07 PM, "G. M. Brown"  wrote:

> 
> Well guys, I drove my '85 300TD earlier after resoldering the Klima Relay PCB 
> yesterday and, as per usual, the AC & tach worked fine from startup but both 
> shut off after ~10-15 min.  Anybody got any other ideas as to where to look 
> to resolve this malady?  TIA.
> 
> G. M. Brown
> Brevard, NC 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Randy Bennell]

Let me suggest another issue.

I am told that good quality accoustic pianos tend to hold their value 
very well or maybe even appreciate in value.
Electronic pianos are like computers. Newer better stuff keeps coming 
along and the old stuff is junked.


So, if you really want an electronic one, let me suggest that you look 
for a used one that is no longer state of the art.

If you want to invest in a good piano then buy a traditional one.

My church (or at least it used to be my church - I am unhappy with the 
current clergy and am waiting for them to move on before I go back on a 
regular basis ) went through this process a few years back and had 
several in to try them out. The music people liked the fancy electronic 
one for the capabilities it had but elected to buy a nice ebony grand - 
Balwin I believe. It has a built in humidifier.

There is a light that flashes when it needs to be refilled with water.

Randy who is not a piano player but wishes he had some musical talent


On 05/09/2012 1:38 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote:

We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha Clavinova for
half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and sound)
are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really sold us
on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't climate-controlled
most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the acoustic
pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking piano
lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would rather
invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. Once I start to
become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, I'll be better suited
to find a good acoustic piano that I would expect to spend a fair amount on
and keep for some time.

I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's almost like
trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, but what makes one
better than the others?

I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic piano, and
88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.

Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on this?

Thanks,

Dan




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Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options

[Dimitri Seretakis]

Fred,
That would be very much appreciated! How about a pencil glow plug reamer? My 
reamer is for loop plugs.
Since I've never been to a ChowdaQ, do we work on cars at this event? 


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Frederick Moir  wrote:

Dimitri, et al.
I'll bring my HF compression tester, with injector adapter, to the Q, so that 
you can try it at your leisure. (Does anyone have any of that to spare?)
Also, the DV tool may fit you IP holders, I'll bring that too.
Next?
 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.



From: Dimitri Seretakis 
To: Mercedes Discussion List  
Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Compression tester options

Well I just realized that the one and only adaptor my tester has is for loop 
style plug holes. That's not going to work for an 82 240D with pencil glows. 
Short of the obvious, get my arse over to Horror Fright and just get a new el 
cheapo set-up, do I have any other quick and dirty options to remedy this 
situation? 




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Re: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

[Scott Ritchey]

We replaced the piano in out church and ended up with a Yamaha Clavinova for
half the price of an acoustic piano.  The Clavinova's key action (and sound)
are very like a good acoustic piano IMO.  But the thing that really sold us
on the digital piano was maintenance.  Our church isn't climate-controlled
most of the time (60-80 degree range) and that was hard on the acoustic
pianos.

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 5:27 PM
To: Mercedes List
Subject: [MBZ] OT - Digital Pianos

I am finally going to check off a bucket list item and start taking piano
lessons, something I have wanted since I was a young boy.

While I could purchase an acoustic piano at this point, I would rather
invest in a decent digital piano that has good action first. Once I start to
become proficient and am sure I want to continue on, I'll be better suited
to find a good acoustic piano that I would expect to spend a fair amount on
and keep for some time.

I see a lot of Yamaha DPs on CL in the $300-$700 range, but it's almost like
trying to buy a DVD player - they all do the same thing, but what makes one
better than the others?

I want something that will provide action similar to an acoustic piano, and
88 keys. As for all the MIDI and synth stuff, I don't care.

Anyone on the list a keyboard player who might want to weigh in on this?

Thanks,

Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Rick Knoble]

> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 10:47:22 -0700
> From: dsereta...@yahoo.com
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!
>
> So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?
>

You asked 
Here is a couple write ups from AM Booth on the subject...

Delivery valve seals will NOT fix a problem with idle speed adjustment

Replacing delivery valve seals is RARELY needed, but IF required, 
nothing else will solve the problem. Maybe 1-2% of Mercedes injection 
pumps require them during their lifetime. There is really NO reliable 
test of delivery valve seals except with the pump on a test stand. It is 
probably wise to replace the pump seals IF you're going to replace the 
"O" rings on the delivery valve pipe fittings as the seals are 
inexpensive, but it's rarely actually necessary. The only reason to 
replace the seals is if there is uneven delivery from the IP to the 
injectors. My very crude test of delivery seals is to remove all the 
injection lines and crank the engine while watching what comes out of 
the pipe fittings - each should deliver about the same amount of fuel. A 
really proper test (the way it would be done on a test stand) would 
measure the output and pressure of each port during some number of 
revolutions of the pump - each should deliver about the same amount of fuel.

When playing with the injection pump a little finesse and care is 
required. The pump body is quite easy to distort if anything is 
overtightened (usually "repaired" by loosening and retightening using 
the proper torque/release technique as outlined in the Tech Data 
Manual), or a little too much force on a wrench CAN crack the housing 
and if that happens a new pump is the only solution.

I do NOT recommend people trying to "tune up" their injection pump as 
injection pumps rarely fail, do NOT routinely drift out of adjustment 
and about 90-95% of all injection pump problems occur right AFTER the 
pump has been "adjusted." Only if all of the injectors have been TESTED 
and shown to be working PERFECTLY but fuel delivery still seems uneven 
is there sufficient justification to even consider playing with the 
delivery valve seals (in MY opinion). Get half a dozen new seals AND "O" 
rings (and several spare "O" rings as it's easy to damage one or more 
when installing the delivery valve fittings). Oil the "O" ring when 
installing it. You'll need the splined socket and a torque wrench 
accurate in the 30-40 lb-ft range. The fittings CAN be removed with the 
intake manifold in place (but it's a little tight).

Worth checking the engine manual.

http://mb.braingears.com/124_DISC1/Program/Engine/602_603/07.1-8627.pdf

Marshall
-- 
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)

He meant NEWTON METERS

Dave M. wrote:
> One tiny adjustment... the torque range neeed is, I believe, 30-40Nm,
> not lb-ft... make sure you use the proper setting on your wrench.
> Over-torquing can damage the pump. The torque procedure is listed in
> the TDM (Tech Data Manual), not the normal service manual (don't ask
> me why).

SORRY - final torque IS 35 Nm NOT 35 ft-lb. Proper sequence is: torque 
to 30 Nm and release, torque to 30 Nm and release, torque to 30 Nm and 
then an additional 5 Nm for the final step. Then, IF the pump makes a 
racket determine which cylinder is noisy and redo the torque sequence on 
that one! Needs to repaired promptly as it can damage or destroy the IP.

I'm told that even experienced techs will produce a noisy condition 
maybe one out of ten times. Happens a little more often for a novice.

Thanks for catching that Dave!! Very careless of me.

Marshall

Harry Watkins wrote:
> I recently replaced the delivery valves o-rings, copper seals and springs on
> an 86 300 SDL and followed this torque procedure; go to 25 ft lbs and loosen
> twice, the third and final torque was 30 ft lbs.  IIRC that was Marshall's
> instruction from long ago.  I was not sure if they should be done one at a
> time or not, but that's what I did.  Its been over a month and all is well
> so far.
> 
> Please keep the area clean, clean, clean.

Woe! The Mercedes specs are in Nm, not lb-ft. Multiply Nm by 0.74 to 
convert from Nm to lb-ft. The delivery valves (or any part attached to 
the pump) must NOT be overtorqued or unevenly torqued. If they are 
stressed, the pump may distort or even crack (that can ruin your day).

Tighten to 30Nm (22.2 lb-ft) and release. Repeat. Tighten to 30 Nm and 
then an additional 5 Nm (3.7 lb-ft). That gives a final value of 25.9. 
Even when properly torqued, the pump housing can occasionally still 
distort. That will usually cause the pump to make a clattering sound and 
the engine will idle roughly. To cure this, loosen the fuel lines one at 
a time until you discover which one is causing the roughness and 
re-torque that one.

Marshall



  
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Fo

Re: [MBZ] Compression tester options

[Frederick Moir]

Dimitri, et al.
I'll bring my HF compression tester, with injector adapter, to the Q, so that 
you can try it at your leisure. (Does anyone have any of that to spare?)
Also, the DV tool may fit you IP holders, I'll bring that too.
Next?
 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.


>
> From: Dimitri Seretakis 
>To: Mercedes Discussion List  
>Sent: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:22 PM
>Subject: [MBZ] Compression tester options
> 
>Well I just realized that the one and only adaptor my tester has is for loop 
>style plug holes. That's not going to work for an 82 240D with pencil glows. 
>Short of the obvious, get my arse over to Horror Fright and just get a new el 
>cheapo set-up, do I have any other quick and dirty options to remedy this 
>situation? 
>
>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights

[WILTON]

And I've gotten along so well all this time without 'em - pouvre moi.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Fmiser" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights



WILTON wrote:



I don't WANT LED's; just wondered how long it'd be before
somebody made units to just plug into regular sockets - an
engineering exercise.


They have been available for about 15 years.

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 83 300d Turbo Upgrade?

[G Mann]

"sit and idle" are the operative words here I think.. A diesel engine at
idle will stack unburned/poorly burned fuel in the cylinders and exhaust
when idled for any period of time.

This is due to the lower combustion rate in the unloaded engine and slight
overfuel condition to sustain idle [so I'm told] which is why the new
rules for parking semi tractors went into effect. When they start pulling
after idle they smoked and rolled coal.

Could be you have one or more fuel nozzles that are not still making a good
spray pattern, which gives large droplets of fuel which take more heat and
energy to light off, available at higher speeds and greater loads on the
engine.

Just a few thoughts,

Grant...

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Michael Canfield wrote:

>   After letting my 300d sit and idle it sometimes blows a quite large cloud
> of oil smoke out the exhaust as soon as I stomp it to the floor and go down
> the road.  I am guessing at bad turbo seals.  What else could I look for?
>   I am wondering if there is a different turbo I can run for a bit more
> boost if I have to replace it.  I recently sold my hot rod Beetle so now my
> son and I have decided the Benz should be our next "rice eater".  Lol
>
> Thanks, Mike
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Re: [MBZ] Rat Rod

[Rich Thomas]

thought i did but these compooter things confuse me

--R

On 9/5/12 1:09 PM, Randy Bennell wrote:
Does that mean you were not able to use the link to the ad and see the 
photos?


Randy

On 05/09/2012 11:51 AM, Rich Thomas wrote:

Was not much to see about it

--R

On 9/5/12 11:47 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

I am surprised that no one had comments on the rat rod ponton.

Randy




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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Dimitri Seretakis]

So is this DV repair pretty straighforward? How long of a job?

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:57 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a similar 
situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything back together.

If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs and DV 
orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if he can't find 
them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The copper seal is a one-time 
use, and generally if you pull a DV back out, the oring is cut from the threads 
too.  A weak DV spring will act the same as a leaky DV seal.  rough idle.

I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is always one I 
want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for seating the DV seal and the 
proper torque.




Just a tad bit wet. I suspect from pulling injector.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

So I just peered into the injector holes and into the prechambers. I can see a 
bit of what appears to be oil in prechamber no. 2. What could this mean? All 
others are bone dry.


are you saying caked/burnt on oil or just wet?  just wet could be from pulling 
the injector.

caked, burnt-on oil residue could be from bad rings or a head gasket.
Maybe time for compression or CLT.

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Re: [MBZ] outa' ideas - re: tach & AC stopping

[Rich Thomas]

That usually suggests something is heating up and going out of spec -- 
some electronic component?  Or some connection, once it gets hot, loses 
(looses) contact.


--R

On 9/5/12 1:07 PM, G. M. Brown wrote:

Well guys, I drove my '85 300TD earlier after resoldering the Klima Relay PCB 
yesterday and, as per usual, the AC & tach worked fine from startup but both 
shut off after ~10-15 min.  Anybody got any other ideas as to where to look to 
resolve this malady?  TIA.
  
G. M. Brown

Brevard, NC 
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Re: [MBZ] LED brake lights

[Fmiser]

> WILTON wrote:

> I don't WANT LED's; just wondered how long it'd be before
> somebody made units to just plug into regular sockets - an
> engineering exercise.

They have been available for about 15 years.

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Re-keying

[Fmiser]

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> Que?
> No roll pin in an ignition lock that I can see. There is a
> snap ring. This is an early model though, newer ones could be
> different.
> 
> There is a roll pin in a door lock, those tap out nicely with
> a 1/16" allen wrench as a driver. Its not the best tool for
> the job but its what I had handy.

Bother.  By '83 the cylinder front is held in by a roll pin in a
blind hole.   Can't drive it out.  I was hoping you had a
non-destructive trick to getting it out.

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Rat Rod

[Randy Bennell]

Does that mean you were not able to use the link to the ad and see the 
photos?


Randy

On 05/09/2012 11:51 AM, Rich Thomas wrote:

Was not much to see about it

--R

On 9/5/12 11:47 AM, Randy Bennell wrote:

I am surprised that no one had comments on the rat rod ponton.

Randy




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[MBZ] outa' ideas - re: tach & AC stopping

[G. M. Brown]

Well guys, I drove my '85 300TD earlier after resoldering the Klima Relay PCB 
yesterday and, as per usual, the AC & tach worked fine from startup but both 
shut off after ~10-15 min.  Anybody got any other ideas as to where to look to 
resolve this malady?  TIA.
 
G. M. Brown
Brevard, NC   
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Re: [MBZ] Old injectors are fine. Now what?!

[Dieselhead]

Probably nothing to worry about.  I remember freaking out about a 
similar situation, a wet hole, but it was ok when I put everything 
back together.


If compression is good, then order DV seals (copper) and DV springs 
and DV orings.  Rusty has em, but I can look up the part numbers if 
he can't find them.  I ALWAYS order extra orings and seals.  The 
copper seal is a one-time use, and generally if you pull a DV back 
out, the oring is cut from the threads too.  A weak DV spring will 
act the same as a leaky DV seal.  rough idle.


I'd order 4 springs and 5 or 6 orings and copper seals.  There is 
always one I want to do over.  Follow the proper procedure for 
seating the DV seal and the proper torque.






Just a tad bit wet. I suspect from pulling injector.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

So I just peered into the injector holes and into the prechambers. I 
can see a bit of what appears to be oil in prechamber no. 2. What 
could this mean? All others are bone dry.



are you saying caked/burnt on oil or just wet?  just wet could be 
from pulling the injector.


caked, burnt-on oil residue could be from bad rings or a head gasket.
Maybe time for compression or CLT.

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