Re: SGI O2 R12000 [SOLVED]
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 22:15 +, Miod Vallat wrote: > There is currently no X server support on sgi O2. This is being worked > on, but don't hold your breath. I'm wondering if I can have X by putting a "normal" graphic card in a free PCI slot. Any suggestion? Regards, David
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006, Paul Greene wrote: > Just another idea. Start making the mega-companies like IBM, RedHat, > etc pay a license fee for the use of OpenSSH. They save literally > millions of dollars incorporating this into their own products, and > don't give anything back to the project. No, we won't compromise our principles by making OpenSSH "somewhat free". The choice is: 1. Vendors, who have benefitted immensely from integrating OpenSSH, contibute something back to improve it further 2. Development continues more slowly We love doing what we do, and we aren't going to stop over some dollars. The assistance that we are asking for is so we can do more of it, and this benefits everyone - especially the organisations whom we are seeking that very assistance from. -d
Re: OpenBSD and the money
>Just out of curiosity, why are you trying to take in money by nickels >and dimes rather than obtaining research grants from the Alberta >government? > >Alberta is rolling in cash, and has specifically stated it wants to >invest in technological research so that it will be in a good position >when oil money begins to dwindle. OpenBSD could surely qualify as a >research organization without too much trouble, at which point you'd be >eligible for substantial provincial funding. > >I recognize that government grants come with red-tape, and people are >often disdainful of taking "hand-outs". In this case, however, I'd >think the pros outweigh the cons. Don't you have a wish-list of things >you'd implement or improve if you got sufficient funding? > >Something to think about... > > Note - my points are not meant to be a criticism of the above post. Something else to think about is the fact that Albertans invest in what they know. Do a search and see the stats from the Canadian Venture Capital Association. Alberta is consistently at the bottom end of total disbursements. I have had a number of discussions with local (Alberta) VCs and Angels about funding options for security and SCADA-related projects. I've had lots of discussions with Theo about the "environment" here. The bottom line is that when you're in a market that can effectively guarantee a high rate of return if you invest in energy, you invest in energy. If you have 7-figures burning a hole in your pocket, you don't invest in next-gen technology, you invest in a building another drilling rig or buying another service rig. Overall, you invest in what you know. Bootstrapping a purely-software organization in Alberta, when the output of said organization doesn't immediately impact agriculture, forestry, mining, oil and gas, is next to impossible. If you are into GIS or geological or geophysical apps, you're still not even necessarily set. The competition is hyper-fierce. Frankly, I'm surprised that a lot of these companies even stay alive. The net trickle-down effect in Alberta for both private and public monies is ultimately not as great as people would believe. The overhead for obtaining what cash is available is also considerably higher than what most people believe. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, and in the interim, traded for steel-toed boots... --Jason
Re: DST oddity in Australia/NSW timezone
Sorry, that was June 2005, not June 2006 (lack of sleep from working on the Commonwealth Games). Jase -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tubnor, Jason B Sent: Friday, 24 March 2006 4:27 PM To: Rod.. Whitworth; OpenBSD misc-list; Steffen Kluge Subject: Re: DST oddity in Australia/NSW timezone As seen here http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-tech&m=113141371800453&w=2 and here http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=113816182303756&w=2 Note the date sent in the list was November last year. The DST adjustment was announced at the beginning of June 2006 (see TZ source files). Cheers, Jason. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rod.. Whitworth Sent: Thursday, 23 March 2006 7:23 PM To: OpenBSD misc-list; Steffen Kluge Subject: Re: DST oddity in Australia/NSW timezone On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:28:34 +1100, Steffen Kluge wrote: >I just noticed that a fresh 3.8 install doesn't contain the DST >exception that has been declared for Australia (NSW and ACT) this year, And don't leave Tassie of the map! >apparently to accommodate the Commonwealth Games. So don't leave Victoria off either! > >This year, daylight savings won't be turned back on the last Sunday in >March, as usual, but a week later on the 1st of April. Ahh, 2nd of April. > >Just thought somebody in Oz (NSW and ACT) might care. Back on 25 January this year I sent an email to this list titled "Daylight saving time changes for Eastern parts of Australia" offering a copy of the zonefile to anybody who needed it. Nobody replied. > >I copied the /usr/share/zoneinfo/Australia/NSW file from a Linux box to >my OpenBSD machines, as well as a bunch of Solaris boxes, and all is >well. > >Proper handling of DST can be checked by running "zdump -v -c 2007 >Australia/NSW". or Sydney or Melbourne, Canberra, Hobart, Victoria, Tasmania, Adelaide, South or whatever you use that is affected > >Cheers >Steffen. > > >From the land "down under": Australia. Do we look from up over? Do NOT CC me - I am subscribed to the list. Replies to the sender address will fail except from the list-server.
Re: DST oddity in Australia/NSW timezone
As seen here http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-tech&m=113141371800453&w=2 and here http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=113816182303756&w=2 Note the date sent in the list was November last year. The DST adjustment was announced at the beginning of June 2006 (see TZ source files). Cheers, Jason. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rod.. Whitworth Sent: Thursday, 23 March 2006 7:23 PM To: OpenBSD misc-list; Steffen Kluge Subject: Re: DST oddity in Australia/NSW timezone On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:28:34 +1100, Steffen Kluge wrote: >I just noticed that a fresh 3.8 install doesn't contain the DST >exception that has been declared for Australia (NSW and ACT) this year, And don't leave Tassie of the map! >apparently to accommodate the Commonwealth Games. So don't leave Victoria off either! > >This year, daylight savings won't be turned back on the last Sunday in >March, as usual, but a week later on the 1st of April. Ahh, 2nd of April. > >Just thought somebody in Oz (NSW and ACT) might care. Back on 25 January this year I sent an email to this list titled "Daylight saving time changes for Eastern parts of Australia" offering a copy of the zonefile to anybody who needed it. Nobody replied. > >I copied the /usr/share/zoneinfo/Australia/NSW file from a Linux box to >my OpenBSD machines, as well as a bunch of Solaris boxes, and all is >well. > >Proper handling of DST can be checked by running "zdump -v -c 2007 >Australia/NSW". or Sydney or Melbourne, Canberra, Hobart, Victoria, Tasmania, Adelaide, South or whatever you use that is affected > >Cheers >Steffen. > > >From the land "down under": Australia. Do we look from up over? Do NOT CC me - I am subscribed to the list. Replies to the sender address will fail except from the list-server.
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 23:00:50 -0500, Paul Greene proclaimed... > Just another idea. Start making the mega-companies like IBM, RedHat, etc > pay a license fee for the use of OpenSSH. They save literally millions > of dollars incorporating this into their own products, and don't give > anything back to the project. Then they'll just keep using old code and never patch, etc. The BSD license cannot be revoked from those vendors.
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
Just another idea. Start making the mega-companies like IBM, RedHat, etc pay a license fee for the use of OpenSSH. They save literally millions of dollars incorporating this into their own products, and don't give anything back to the project. They won't give anything financially without it being *required* for them to give; they certainly aren't going to give money out of the goodness of their hearts .. Aaron Glenn wrote: On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH. http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/OpenBSD_needs_a_major_donor http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1555243 No one seems to care (unless donations have shot up and Theo, et. al. haven't mentioned it) aaron.glenn
Re: openbsd and the money
On 2006.03.24, at 5:23 AM, Theo de Raadt wrote: http://openssh.com/usage/graphs.html Wow, no wonder ssh.com spouts so much FUD. They are quickly converging on extinction.
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
correction: no one with a great deal of money seems to care. ;) I've been following the thread, and once I saw it on slashdot I got off my lazy ass and donated what little I could right now (more to come, but on a grad student salary, I can't donate what companies can). I really hate prolonging this thread, but I'm curious about the following... I've done quite bit of contract work around my area, and in most cases I've been able to implement OpenBSD for something. Whenever that's happened, I've always pushed for the company to make a donation. In most cases it's worked (actually all that I can think of), resulting in (usually) around $500. It's not what the larger companies could do, but I'm curious if other contractors try to push donations when they utilize openbsd/openssh. All the companies I've worked with have been fairly receptive. -ryan On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:34 PM, Aaron Glenn wrote: On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH. http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/OpenBSD_needs_a_major_donor http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1555243 No one seems to care (unless donations have shot up and Theo, et. al. haven't mentioned it) aaron.glenn
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
> http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/OpenBSD_needs_a_major_donor > http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1555243 > > No one seems to care (unless donations have shot up and Theo, et. al. > haven't mentioned it) >From what I see, we have received a mini flood of donations, which means there will soon be a drought. It is already slowing down a lot. In the end, it will not be enough, unless there is another "funding drive" just like this in another 6 months. If I can try to estimate the situation, having seen how it works before.. hold onto your seats, this is confusing: In the end, 50% of what we have gotten we would have received anyways from nice donators over the coming 6 months. So we will have received about twice as much as normal, but just sooner. Of course, since this rush was driven by a press deluge on this issue (just check news.google), people will very quickly forget, and not wish to help us again quite as soon. As I said, it is already slowing down. There are a finite number of people who can be reached directly via even these information forums... These donations from individuals are really great. The community is great. Thanks a lot. But we know this is the wrong way to fund OpenBSD, OpenSSH, and our other subprojects in the long term, and that the Unix (and maybe even Linux) vendors who ship OpenSSH in their products should be helping with at least a few pennies of the millions and millions of dollars we have saved them. How many vendors are shipping another SSH implimentation? Therefore Damien and I have just sent these two mails to a few mailing lists: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=114316163313701&w=2 http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=114316224627520&w=2 I suspect that conversation is not over.
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on > slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux > community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH. http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/OpenBSD_needs_a_major_donor http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/21/1555243 No one seems to care (unless donations have shot up and Theo, et. al. haven't mentioned it) aaron.glenn
Locking processes/users to CPUs in SMP systems
I was just wondering, is it possible to lock a process or user to a specific CPU in an SMP system? Say for example, I had a database and a web server and I wanted to lock each one to a CPU. Or that I only wanted user 'johndoe' to be able to use a second CPU? Thanks in advance. RJ -- em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Poster: "I am a Windows Systems Administrator and work for a pretty large corporation" Anonymous: "I am so very sorry for you..." -- Slashdot
graphics/gd error in ports
guys i'm trying to install gd from ports and i've got this # cd /usr/ports/graphics/gd # make install ===> Installing gd-1.8.3 from /usr/ports/packages/i386/all/gd-1.8.3.tgz Can't install /usr/ports/packages/i386/all/gd-1.8.3.tgz: lib not found ttf.1.3 Even by looking in the dependency tree: jpeg-6bp2, png-1.2.8, freetype-1.3.1p1 Maybe it's in a dependent package, but not tagged with @lib ? (check with pkg_info -K -L) If you are still running 3.6 packages, update them. touch: /var/db/pkg/gd-1.8.3/+CONTENTS: No such file or directory *** Error code 1 (ignored)
Re: symon error in port install
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Attempting to fetch /usr/ports/distfiles/freetype-1.3.1.tar.gz from http://ovh.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/freetype/. Size does not match for /usr/ports/distfiles/freetype-1.3.1.tar.gz Try a different sourceforge mirror.
symon error in port install
guys have you tried installing symon via ports? coz i've got this error when i tried to install symon but previous i don't have any problem installing symon under ports ===> gd-1.8.3 depends on: ttf.1.3 (freetype-*) - ttf.1.3 missing... ===> Verifying install for ttf.1.3 (freetype-*) in print/freetype ===> Checking files for freetype-1.3.1p1 >> freetype-1.3.1.tar.gz doesn't seem to exist on this system. >> Attempting to fetch /usr/ports/distfiles/freetype-1.3.1.tar.gz from >> http://ovh.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/freetype/. >> Size does not match for /usr/ports/distfiles/freetype-1.3.1.tar.gz /bin/sh: test: 3: unexpected operator/operand *** Error code 2 Stop in /usr/ports/print/freetype (line 1990 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/print/freetype (line 1444 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/print/freetype (line 1633 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/graphics/gd (line 1334 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/graphics/gd (line 1633 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/net/rrdtool (line 1334 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/net/rrdtool (line 1633 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/sysutils/symon (line 1334 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk). *** Error code 1 Stop in /usr/ports/sysutils/symon (line 1633 of /usr/ports/infrastructure/mk/bsd.port.mk).
Re: OpenSSH Permissions
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 04:52:51PM -0500, Michael Steinfeld wrote:
> I have created an rsa key on my workstations which I use to ssh to 25+ servers
> I have a small script that allows me to 'ssh ${host}' easily.
>
> but when I am logged into $host1 and attempt to ssh to $host2
> I'm prompted for a password.
>
> So, I decided to copy my id_rsa into the ${host}~./ssh directories on
> the 25 servers. I already have an authorized_keys file being that I
> ssh to them all day from my workstation.
>
> I set permissions to 0600 on each id_rsa.
>
> When I attempt to login here is what I get using ssh -v host
>
> --
> debug1: Authentications that can continue:
> publickey,password,keyboard-interactive
> debug1: Next authentication method: publickey
> debug1: Offering public key: /home/tulku/.ssh/id_rsa
> debug1: Server accepts key: pkalg ssh-dss blen 435 lastkey 0x906a918 hint 0
> debug1: PEM_read_PrivateKey failed
> debug1: read PEM private key done: type
> Enter passphrase for key '/home/tulku/.ssh/id_rsa':
>
> I don't have a passphrase setup, when I created the key I hit
>
> Is this due to bad perms, or did I miss something in the documentation?
Like, the value of passwords on keys, the use of ssh-agent, and ssh -A?
That it is a bad idea in the first place to chain ssh sessions (except
for a rare few cases), as this leaves you open to lots of attacks?
Also, it doesn't really look like id_rsa is okay. Tuning up the -v
(-vvv) might help with debugging, but I'd take a look at id_rsa first
(md5 is a good tool for this).
Joachim
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on > slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux > community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH. yeah, the last time we tried that, way back on march 22, it worked out great.
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On 3/23/06, Edd Barrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on > slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux > community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH. > Someone put it up on Slashdot Tuesday. Hopefully it's driven some letter writing, purchases and donations. Greg
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
Hi, Just an idea, but why not try to have this conversation linked to on slashdot / digg. There is huge traffic to these sites from the linux community, who all owe the OpenBSD developers for OpenSSH. Regards Edd
openbsd and the money
Suggestions about how OpenBSD can get more funding are moot. They've been beaten to death (the nerves of heavy misc goers can relate.) It took me awhile to realize this, but suggestions--words and thoughts--here are worthless. Theo and company don't need help thinking, they obviously have sharp minds and can do that for themselves. What is needed is code. Code, Code, Code. That's all that is important. Money facilitates that. So, stop thinking about how to get money and go get it. Its fairly simple. If you have a corporate entity that has money to burn and you want to relieve them of it, go read "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. When you donate to OpenBSD, its not going down some drain. You're buying new features that the developers want to write! Features that greatly benefit you. Stopped donating because your feature requests are not honored? Code it yourself! That seems harsh, does it not? Well if a developer wants something, he will write it. Bugging him to write it for you is pointless. Even if your idea is fantastic, the developers have a lot to do, and they will focus on what they want. But keep in mind that what they want is generally what you want (security and reliability.) I bet there are things the developers want and you want too. Can you guess what's getting in the way of those things happening? Once they are satisfied with what they want, then they might look into what you want? Any thoughts when that is going to happen? I can't forget the "Theo is a prick so I don't donate" argument. If you want to spend money so someone is nice to you, go get a hooker. Yes, you will get yelled at here if you ask stupid and redundant questions or waste perfectly good oxygen in general. Buying stuff and donating is not and excuse for not thinking. And finally there is the "Theo and Company should be thankful to me for donating, he has no right to act in such and such a manner." No fool! It is You that should be thankful. Think about how much of their lives they've put into OpenBSD! Your dollars pale in comparison to their investments and commitments (no pun intended.) Please, stop with the brain dead blather. If the developers are pecking away at their keyboards, I'd rather have them in vi than mutt. You're wasting your time, my time, and their time. So google first, google often. Thanks! Travers Buda P.S. Donate and buy swag. There are too few people here to pick up the slack when you act upon the idea that someone else will keep the money flowing. This falls on YOU!
Re: openbsd and the money
On 3/23/06, Roger Neth Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'll also include Theo and OpenBSD in my daily prayers. > Has Theo and OpenBSD asked you for your prayers? Greg Matthew 19:12
Re: Bank transfers for donating
> So we have setup a bank account, and people can use the following > information for IBAN and SWIFT/BIC transfers: > http://www.openbsd.org/bank-donation.html Thanks! This is quite useful from a European point of view. The sentence "Payment should be made within 30 days after the invoice date." probably ought to be deleted; it looks like a copy and paste oversight.
Re: openbsd and the money
I'll also include Theo and OpenBSD in my daily prayers. If you wish so ;) I will not ;) -- Wojtek
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
Are you saying "we" can't propose anything better? I did not mean to step on another sacred cow - I really only wanted to suggest redirecting this thread toward workable solutions. I don't know anything and I can prove it! Theo de Raadt wrote: I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable official (copyright Theo de Raadt) ISO images of releases as well as CDROMs. Yes, I read the FAQ I'm just thinking that selling only CDROMs in today's world may be akin to selling only floppies (no CDROMs available) a few years back. If you don't like this idea don't waste time on it - propose something better! We can't. Just like you can't google. -- _ _ _ __| | __ _ _ __ | |__ __ _ ___ ___| | ___ _ __ / _` |/ _` | '_ \ | '_ \ / _` / __/ __| |/ _ \ '__| | (_| | (_| | | | | | | | | (_| \__ \__ \ | __/ | \__,_|\__,_|_| |_| |_| |_|\__,_|___/___/_|\___|_| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: openbsd and the money
On 3/23/06, Wojtek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Let's get straight. I don't need Theo de Raadt to tell me "thank you", I > don't need him to set any kind of thank letters, I need him to run this > project, and make it work/develop. If he does, and project goes well... > Yes, that's the way I know where are my money spend for. > > So let it just run, and please, don't say people, it's not we, it's not > us, it's my own opinion, and I see it that way. > > -- > Wojtek > > My name on the donation page is a good enough thank you. I'll also include Theo and OpenBSD in my daily prayers. rogern John 3:16
Re: Broadcom BCM5701 NICs: Only ICMP, no TCP/UDP?
Hi, * Ted Unangst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3/23/06, Alexander Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I tried to install OpenBSD 3.8 on a box with two Gigabit 3Com cards with > > Broadcom BCM5701 chipset. I set up networking, configured the ip address, > > set the default route, put the nameserver into the resolv.conf file. Pinging > > the nameserver works, resolving dns names and doing anything over tcp or udp > have you tried something like ftp to the gateway? i think it's > unlikely a nic could somehow only work with icmp. Today I was able to send and receive some data with netcat, but still no ftp, no dns. Any further ideas? - Alexander
Re: openbsd and the money
How about the next time Theo, Marco, or another developer asks for donations/sponsorship everyone does one or more of the following: 1. Donates cash. 2. Writes letters to those who can donate cash. 3. Buys CDs/merch. 4. Gets friends and co-workers to buy CDs/merch. (Non-IT people love my wireframe blowfish shirt). 5. Shuts up. I'll try to apply 5 to myself now. Greg
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
> I did not mean to step on another sacred cow - I really only wanted to > suggest redirecting this thread toward workable solutions. The problem is that many of the "workable solutions" people are suggesting are completely ridiculous. They are in the catagory of "Cater to me, the entire world is just like me" when we know is not true. Now please, you are keeping many of us from the source code.
Re: openbsd and the money
Let's get straight. I don't need Theo de Raadt to tell me "thank you", I don't need him to set any kind of thank letters, I need him to run this project, and make it work/develop. If he does, and project goes well... Yes, that's the way I know where are my money spend for. So let it just run, and please, don't say people, it's not we, it's not us, it's my own opinion, and I see it that way. -- Wojtek
Re: openbsd and the money
On Thursday 23 March 2006 15:54, you wrote: > > thankless? you sir, are the most thankless project leader > > i have ever seen in my life. > > We thank with code. We don't come shower people with nice words. > We write code. Oh, dear. Frantisek, The dichotomies are only too obvious. As dumb as it may seem, pleasantries are what greases the wheels of human interaction. Nothing short of magical, what it can do. Speaking for myself, I used to be one arrogant son-of-a-bitch. Knew it all, or almost. One day a customer pointed out that my technical skills where superb, by my personal PR with his employees were so bad he did not want to use me. My immediate thought was screw him! But after a while I realized that I really LOVE producing solutions. I never cared if someone liked me or not. But that not caring got so bad that I got a bad reputation too. If people don't like me, helping them becomes so much harder to do. Never mind what it does to my income. I still don't care too much as long as I'm happy with me. But I temper that with evaluating what kinds of effects do I produce on people I get in contact with. I like to think people are doing and feeling better after I help them. That produces goodwill, and more income. Is this what you mean? -- Steve Szmidt "For evil to triumph all that is needed is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
Apologies if this hasn't already been covered on the lists somewhere. Limit CD-ROM download availability and push for more CD sales. Instead of offering hefty discounts to resellers, why not establish trusted distribution points in different countries? I would personally be happy to act as one such, although as I am an unknown to the project, I wouldn't expect to be offered such a role. Personally, I wouldn't want paying for the task and I'm sure that nobody else would, in helping out the project. But surely there are trusted users in most countries, who could act in this way, further improving costs/profits and negating the need for resellers? Surely the resellers don't help in raising the profile of the project and so are just cashing in? -- Best regards, Craig http://slashboot.org/ Support OpenBSD http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 22:27:10 +0100, chefren proclaimed... > Sigh... Is it so difficult to try this for a period? > > I offer to do the administration. Who the fuck are you? Nobody, that's who. I don't trust some nobody to do the administration of the FTP server I download from. Why would we trust a non-team member? Actually, why don't YOU go sell access to OpenBSD via FTP? Nothing is stopping you, or are you too stupid to read a license? Go do it, and go see how many people you get to turn to you instead of the people that have built their reputations over the course of 10 years. - Eric
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
Some of us: 1. Work for companies which want you to have a physical CD around, even if it is available via FTP. 2. Buy CD's (I have to preorder 3.9, and I will). 3. Put the stickers on our machines and servers. 4. Work on machines which may not be connected to the Internet. 5. Don't have the time to burn everything to CD. I'm more than willing to buy my CDs every 6 months. The problem with anything FTP-related is that not everyone follows the honor system that it implies. It's much easier to give someone a username and password than it is to dupe a CD :). The issue isn't with new ways to sell the product. It's with the fact that companies who have made a lot of money selling the feature set provided by OpenBSD, OpenSSH, and related projects like IBM, Red Hat, Cisco, and Check Point haven't contributed to the project. It's a double-edged sword. The license the projects are under encourages commercial usage moreso than other licenses. However, that doesn't mean that those who do are going to give back. The better possible solution (and the more professional one, IMHO), is when you have an OBSD-related project, encourage your customers to buy the CDs along with the project, with an explanation of what the project does. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of chefren Sent: Thu 3/23/2006 4:27 PM To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: openbsd and the money -solutions On 03/23/06 20:52, Daniel E. Hassler wrote: >I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means > of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks > just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable > official (copyright Theo de Raadt) ISO images of releases as well as > CDROMs. Yes, I read the FAQ I'm just thinking that selling only CDROMs > in today's world may be akin to selling only floppies (no CDROMs > available) a few years back. > > If you don't like this idea don't waste time on it - propose something > better! Yep! CD sales will definitely go down/down/down and FTP use will definitely go up/up/up. Sell access to a new ftp.openbsd.org server with "the real thing". I see no problem at all. The OpenBSD web site may definitely point to the free mirrors too but, like with old CD's, _let people pay for "the real thing"!_ This proposal has nothing to do with less-free or less-open, Theo had no problem with receiving money for "the real" CD's, why have trouble with receiving money for "the real FTP"??? It is clear it seems clueless for most techies, the Sunsite ftp site may even be the "real" server, but it's clear for me and lots of others that people and companies will be paying for being able to download from "the real and trustable" ftp.openbsd.org server. Sigh... Is it so difficult to try this for a period? I offer to do the administration. +++chefren
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
I fail to see why there aren't at least 2000 people/organizations/OS's/OS projects willing to donate at a dollar a day. That should give the projects what they need to evolve at a healthy pace. ~5,000/mo for power, internet connection, and other overhead ~25,000/mo for hackathons ~10,000/mo for hardware ~20,000/mo for a team of developers You all write good software, count me at a dollar a day payed monthly. Surely more people can afford the same? Axton Grams
Re: SGI O2 R12000 [SOLVED]
> my next mission is to get X running on 'silikon'. I haven't found any > specific documentation about that at all... There is currently no X server support on sgi O2. This is being worked on, but don't hold your breath. Miod
OpenSSH Permissions
I have created an rsa key on my workstations which I use to ssh to 25+ servers
I have a small script that allows me to 'ssh ${host}' easily.
but when I am logged into $host1 and attempt to ssh to $host2
I'm prompted for a password.
So, I decided to copy my id_rsa into the ${host}~./ssh directories on
the 25 servers. I already have an authorized_keys file being that I
ssh to them all day from my workstation.
I set permissions to 0600 on each id_rsa.
When I attempt to login here is what I get using ssh -v host
--
debug1: Authentications that can continue:
publickey,password,keyboard-interactive
debug1: Next authentication method: publickey
debug1: Offering public key: /home/tulku/.ssh/id_rsa
debug1: Server accepts key: pkalg ssh-dss blen 435 lastkey 0x906a918 hint 0
debug1: PEM_read_PrivateKey failed
debug1: read PEM private key done: type
Enter passphrase for key '/home/tulku/.ssh/id_rsa':
I don't have a passphrase setup, when I created the key I hit
Is this due to bad perms, or did I miss something in the documentation?
thanks,
-mike
Re: SGI O2 R12000 [SOLVED]
YES! I finally made it! OpenBSD/sgi (silikon.lan) (tty00) :) login: # uname -a OpenBSD silikon.lan 3.8 GENERIC#164 sgi here are a few pics of my environment: http://bkw.lindesign.se/gallery/boxes/ I will prolly write a doc just as last time I was playing with diskless on OpenBSD (http://www.openbsdsupport.org/diskless.pdf) for the installation of obsd on SGI O2 R12000. I know there's a INSTALL.sgi, but still a lean R12k specific doc will hopefully help somebody. I agree with whoever who wrote the INSTALL.sgi that the installtion can be _tricky_. btw, I attached a dmesg. my next mission is to get X running on 'silikon'. I haven't found any specific documentation about that at all... thank you pefo making sgi arch supported. /bkw -- ## BKW - Bachman Kharazmi bahkha AT gmail DOT com uin: #24089491 SWEDEN ## [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of dmesg_SGI_O2_R12000]
We can't. [was: Re: openbsd and the money -solutions]
On 03/23/06 22:11, Theo de Raadt wrote: We can't. What's difficult with pointing ftp.openbsd.org to a new server that's a mirror of the current ftp.openbsd.org server? Why can you point us again and again to the place where we "should" buy CD's while we want to be pointed to a the place where we can buy FTP access because that's far more handy? Flip that bit! +++chefren
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
On 03/23/06 20:52, Daniel E. Hassler wrote: I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable official (copyright Theo de Raadt) ISO images of releases as well as CDROMs. Yes, I read the FAQ I'm just thinking that selling only CDROMs in today's world may be akin to selling only floppies (no CDROMs available) a few years back. If you don't like this idea don't waste time on it - propose something better! Yep! CD sales will definitely go down/down/down and FTP use will definitely go up/up/up. Sell access to a new ftp.openbsd.org server with "the real thing". I see no problem at all. The OpenBSD web site may definitely point to the free mirrors too but, like with old CD's, _let people pay for "the real thing"!_ This proposal has nothing to do with less-free or less-open, Theo had no problem with receiving money for "the real" CD's, why have trouble with receiving money for "the real FTP"??? It is clear it seems clueless for most techies, the Sunsite ftp site may even be the "real" server, but it's clear for me and lots of others that people and companies will be paying for being able to download from "the real and trustable" ftp.openbsd.org server. Sigh... Is it so difficult to try this for a period? I offer to do the administration. +++chefren
Re: openbsd and the money
I think that everyone here at one point or another has been insulted or even attacked for posting to this mailing list. Yes, there are some very 'trigger happy' folks here. More so then other mailing lists. I am not saying that often enough an email doesn't warrant a good flame, but sometimes I really wish people would put the stress of work, and EGO's aside and have a bit more empathy for each other. After all, there really is no reason to single anyone out, if you don't like the post or the person that posted it. You don't have to reply. Obviously, the original post struck a nerve otherwise there would be no response. I have enough balls to say, "Yes, there are a lot of assholes on this list, and I can honestly say that I'm far from nice and perfect" but for the most part I strive to be helpful and not hurtful. That is what I think the original author was trying to get across.. which, if the wheels stop turning for a few moments, and people remember to breath.. sleep 5 just maybe we can turn this community into a fully self-supported, highly productive, machine that puts an end to this negativity. Which quite frankly, kills productivty. --mike
Re: OpenBSD and the money
To get money from the government you have to work with professionals consultants. The good ones are expensive, but they do work on a contingency basis. They know who to ask, and what incantation to follow. Its their job to get the money not yours. The trick is finding a good one. To get money, companies need a university connection show what they are doing is research, so the place to find the good consultant is from references from friendly professors. -Original Message- From: Theo de Raadt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:52 PM To: Peter Fraser Cc: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: OpenBSD and the money We have nowhere to start. Alberta does not care about what we do. This is an oil place, not a IT place.
Re: openbsd and the money
I don't see it written anywhere where buying CDs or donating to the project gives any of us users a "vote" into how things are done within the project. I've loved the OS for years and support the project, that's the only "vote" I'm entitled to and I'm glad to exercise it. Please let this thread die, I won't reply further. Gord
Re: openbsd and the money
On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 21:40:31 +0100, frantisek holop proclaimed... > you can ignore, that's for sure. but you don't... > at least i made you think about it. Aren't you done yet, troll? Still hungry?
Bank transfers for donating
Until earlier today I was unaware that it is much easier for Europeans to donate via direct bank transfers. Apparently bank transfers, compared to paypal or credit card transactions, are more reliable, more secure, and very inexpensive. (Between countries in the Euro zone they may not cost more than a national bank transfer would). So we have setup a bank account, and people can use the following information for IBAN and SWIFT/BIC transfers: http://www.openbsd.org/bank-donation.html Again, thanks so much to those of you who are donating. It makes us a bit sad that almost all of you are individuals, and that companies and operating system vendors appear uniformly unwilling to participate. Inside our group, we are discussing a policy change regarding how we will deal with potential future OpenSSH security problems, and this might convince the vendors a little bit better, but we have to discuss some more details because it feels a bit like we would be using the stick instead of the carrot (that said, 5 years of repeated contacts to vendors with the carrot of "please help us" has gotten us absolutely nothing).
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
> I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means > of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks > just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable > official (copyright Theo de Raadt) ISO images of releases as well as > CDROMs. Yes, I read the FAQ I'm just thinking that selling only CDROMs > in today's world may be akin to selling only floppies (no CDROMs > available) a few years back. > > If you don't like this idea don't waste time on it - propose something > better! We can't. Just like you can't google.
Re: soekris
--- marrandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday 23 March 2006 15:41, you wrote: > > > > Why isn't /var listed in MFS ? > > > > > > Logs etc > > > > # ls -lh /var > > lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 8B Dec 16 21:28 /var -> /tmp/var > > I was wondering if you had done something like that. > > Hows it holding up with only 7.8MB for both /tmp and /var ? > > Any crashes or anything ? Nope. It's very stable. Currently, as my first post showed, I'm only using 100 kB of my MFS. All logs are sent to a remote station. Honestly I cannot find anything wrong with the Soekris. I realize it has its power/load limitations (which I have yet to challenge on my lan). Peter Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: openbsd and the money
> thankless? you sir, are the most thankless project leader > i have ever seen in my life. We thank with code. We don't come shower people with nice words. We write code. > i have been advocating openbsd since the 2.6 times > and buying cds/shirts/posters since i started making > money. wim can tell you that, we mail a lot, because > except one time, all my stuff was always late :) > oh, and my 3.8 poster is still not here (sorry wim). Advocacy is a way that our user community can help themselves, because it means that we can keep writing code. Oh, I thought you said something nice above, but you managed to sneak in even more complaining. > i raise controversial issues on misc@ i admit that, > some might even call it flaming, i call it food for > thought. people pretend some questions/issues dont > exist or they just don't ask it, because they get > attacked. It is not food for thought. It is just you showing that you believe that when we write something, and then you show thanks to us, we should show thanks back to you. That makes no sense. If you wish for us to spend our time thanking people for thanking us, rather than writing more code, you have got it all wrong. > _i_ started this thread because _i_ think you and some NO. You started this thread because you like to hear yourself talk. There is NOTHING else going on, except for you liking the sound of your own voice, and your own dissatisfied keystrokes. If you are so dissatisfied with the things that we do for you, PLEASE stop using them. Go find someone else who can satisfy you. > of devs are not thankful, that you flame us till we > burn but accept our money. and now you say _i_ am not > thankful. sir, you are a master of words. No, we only flame losers who whine, whine, WHINE, and then a week later keep WHINING. "You guys keep giving us software! But you never say nice words! You suck!". It is whining. It is NOTHING but whining. > i am a man of principles just as you. so i do what > i believe in. just like you. You are not a man. You are a whiny child who thinks that they should get their software, for free, and then when the nice words are not included they can spend a few minutes to make personal attacks on the people who spent hundreds and thousands of hours writing it. Maybe you are not even a man, because I know whiny children who are nicer than you. > but somehow we always end up at the wrong wavelength. > you will not believe, but it is not my intention. The frequency and amplitude of your whining is just too much for us. Please stop it immediately. Just shut up!
Re: openbsd and the money
On 03/23/06 20:13, frantisek holop wrote: how long would wikipedia survive with a userbase attitude like yours? everything is connected with everything. Yes, and Theo's attitude is perfect for OpenBSD and OpenSSH in a technical way. I do agree Theo should correct one bit but no more than that. +++chefren
Re: soekris
On Thursday 23 March 2006 15:41, you wrote: > > Why isn't /var listed in MFS ? > > > > Logs etc > > # ls -lh /var > lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 8B Dec 16 21:28 /var -> /tmp/var I was wondering if you had done something like that. Hows it holding up with only 7.8MB for both /tmp and /var ? Any crashes or anything ? Regards...Martin
Re: soekris
--- marrandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday 23 March 2006 13:08, you wrote: > > > > > Other than that, my system performs very well on a small lan and I > am > > very happy. Here is my df: > > > > Filesystem SizeUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on > > /dev/wd0a 118M 21.7M 90.0M19%/ > > mfs:30147 7.8M100K7.3M 1%/tmp > > > > Notice I am using a memory/RAM filesystem for any writing it needs > to do. > > > Why isn't /var listed in MFS ? > > Logs etc # ls -lh /var lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 8B Dec 16 21:28 /var -> /tmp/var Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: openbsd and the money
hmm, on Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 07:08:00PM +, Craig said that > How long I have been a user is irrelevant, to be honest. I resent the > overtones of elitism, of which it appears you are complaining about in > others. as some other "elitist" will surely point out to you, posting a private letter on a mailing list is quite rude. you are mixing up elitism with experience. not that the first doesn't come with the other :) > I am merely an enthusiast, but I make what contributions I can and I do > it because I personally feel it is the right thing to do. I have not and where is that better than what i do? let me write it down here for you: i.do.the.same. that i don't agree with Theo in some things and i voice my opinion makes me the number 1 public openbsd enemy or what? you can ignore, that's for sure. but you don't... at least i made you think about it. -f -- i may be wrong, but i'm never in doubt!
Re: openbsd and the money
hmm, on Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 12:25:01PM -0700, Theo de Raadt said that > Frantisek Holop, if you are so thankless towards our efforts, > please stop posting to our mailing lists. PLEASE stop running > any software we write. I know I am not alone when I ask this > of you. thankless? you sir, are the most thankless project leader i have ever seen in my life. i have been advocating openbsd since the 2.6 times and buying cds/shirts/posters since i started making money. wim can tell you that, we mail a lot, because except one time, all my stuff was always late :) oh, and my 3.8 poster is still not here (sorry wim). i raise controversial issues on misc@ i admit that, some might even call it flaming, i call it food for thought. people pretend some questions/issues dont exist or they just don't ask it, because they get attacked. _i_ started this thread because _i_ think you and some of devs are not thankful, that you flame us till we burn but accept our money. and now you say _i_ am not thankful. sir, you are a master of words. i am a man of principles just as you. so i do what i believe in. just like you. but somehow we always end up at the wrong wavelength. you will not believe, but it is not my intention. i think i am starting to understand how you could have felt when the netbsd people said something like > please stop posting to our mailing lists. PLEASE stop running > any software we write. I know I am not alone when I ask this > of you. and it's not pleasant that's for sure. after all this effort i have put into it. if you took criticism the same way you give it to others, maybe we could have been friends even. but i am just a thankless nobody for you who sends 5 silly patches/year. very well then. let no one be more thankless than i am, and you won't have problems with the cd sales. how could it go so wrong?! how could i get here that even darren reed is more welcome now than i am? lost! it's all lost i tell ya! oh, good bye cruel world! -f all you theo lovers, spare me your preaching. i am not the enemy, i am an openbsd admin. -- how can i miss you if you won't go away.
Re: OpenBSD and the money
> Just out of curiosity, why are you trying to take in money by nickels > and dimes rather than obtaining research grants from the Alberta > government? I think you underestimate the difficulty of doing this. It would require a full time person doing the grant application forms. > Alberta is rolling in cash, and has specifically stated it wants to > invest in technological research so that it will be in a good position > when oil money begins to dwindle. OpenBSD could surely qualify as a > research organization without too much trouble, at which point you'd be > eligible for substantial provincial funding. The above is a lie. If Alberta ever runs out of oil, we will be the first up against the wall because these government words are just plans and they cannot pull them off. In the 1980's there were all sorts of IT joint research ventures here, and every single one of them was a complete money grab. Some of you may know that in the first year of OpenBSD I did some contracting to Willowglen which wasa a JRV with the Alberta goverment for SCADA stuff. The Alberta government had lots of money and plans then too, just like now, but soon as the government stopped putting money in the entire company pulled up and moved to Singapore (and now to Malaysia). So I know how it works here. > I recognize that government grants come with red-tape, and people are > often disdainful of taking "hand-outs". In this case, however, I'd > think the pros outweigh the cons. Don't you have a wish-list of things > you'd implement or improve if you got sufficient funding? > > Something to think about... I have looked into these things before. It is not as easy as you think, to get these things setup. It requires writing an incredible amount of paperwork and explaining it to people who don't understand any of the technology. The projects they choose are judged entirely by their ability to wear the suit and graft money off to the existing old boy's club. I have a 2000 line diff to OpenSSH in the works, which is not yet perfect. Then I know I have a bunch more lint auditing to do -- yes, in OpenSSH again. Should I put that aside, and go write some accountant text for the next two weeks instead? I know what I will do :) (And anyways, why should Alberta research money be paying for the failings of IBM, Sun, HP, and RedHat to pony up what they sell to their customers).
Re: Privilege separation & privilege revocation
Thanks for all!!! On 3/23/06, Joachim Schipper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 10:14:12AM -0300, Joco Salvatti wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I've tried to find any definition on the Internet before but I really > > couldn't find a paper or anything that could clear up my doubts. If > > anyone here could help me I'd be very thankful. The questions are the > > following: > > > > 1. What is privilege separation? > > 2. What is privilege revocation? > > 3. What is ProPolice? > > > > Thanks. > > See Wikipedia's OpenBSD entry and the ProPolice page linked from there. > Basically, the first two involve running with less priviliges than the > process was started with, and the last one protects from certain buffer > overflows, which is a common exploitable bug in C programs. > > Nothing Google couldn't answer. Please search first; if you genuinely > want to know something that cannot be found elsewhere, please ask again. > > Joachim > > -- Joco Salvatti Undergraduating in Computer Science Federal University of Para - UFPA web: http://salvatti.expert.com.br e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: openbsd and the money -solutions
I read that FTP is becoming far more popular than CDROMs as a means of obtaining OpenBSD. If this is because it's more convenient (vs. folks just being too cheap) then it might make sense to sell downloadable official (copyright Theo de Raadt) ISO images of releases as well as CDROMs. Yes, I read the FAQ I'm just thinking that selling only CDROMs in today's world may be akin to selling only floppies (no CDROMs available) a few years back. If you don't like this idea don't waste time on it - propose something better! -- _ _ _ __| | __ _ _ __ | |__ __ _ ___ ___| | ___ _ __ / _` |/ _` | '_ \ | '_ \ / _` / __/ __| |/ _ \ '__| | (_| | (_| | | | | | | | | (_| \__ \__ \ | __/ | \__,_|\__,_|_| |_| |_| |_|\__,_|___/___/_|\___|_| [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: openbsd and the money
On 3/23/06, frantisek holop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > i am really not entitled to judge you, except the creator > no one is. but answer me frankly please, do you think > that the "legend" of your personality is helping to raise > funds for the project? My company knows nothing of Theo's personality and yet they don't donate. Why? Because they're cheap, clueless, and lack foresight. > how long would wikipedia survive with a userbase attitude > like yours? Wikipedia would survive on vanity biographies alone. Greg
Re: OpenBSD and the money
We have nowhere to start. Alberta does not care about what we do. This is an oil place, not a IT place.
Re: soekris
On Thursday 23 March 2006 13:08, you wrote: > Other than that, my system performs very well on a small lan and I am > very happy. Here is my df: > > Filesystem SizeUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/wd0a 118M 21.7M 90.0M19%/ > mfs:30147 7.8M100K7.3M 1%/tmp > > Notice I am using a memory/RAM filesystem for any writing it needs to do. Why isn't /var listed in MFS ? Logs etc Regards...Martin
Re: OpenBSD and the money
Just out of curiosity, why are you trying to take in money by nickels and dimes rather than obtaining research grants from the Alberta government? Alberta is rolling in cash, and has specifically stated it wants to invest in technological research so that it will be in a good position when oil money begins to dwindle. OpenBSD could surely qualify as a research organization without too much trouble, at which point you'd be eligible for substantial provincial funding. I recognize that government grants come with red-tape, and people are often disdainful of taking "hand-outs". In this case, however, I'd think the pros outweigh the cons. Don't you have a wish-list of things you'd implement or improve if you got sufficient funding? Something to think about...
Re: openbsd and the money
Frantisek Holop, if you are so thankless towards our efforts, please stop posting to our mailing lists. PLEASE stop running any software we write. I know I am not alone when I ask this of you.
Re: openbsd and the money
How long I have been a user is irrelevant, to be honest. I resent the overtones of elitism, of which it appears you are complaining about in others. I am merely an enthusiast, but I make what contributions I can and I do it because I personally feel it is the right thing to do. I have not been brainwashed into it, I decided it for myself, when I realised what I was getting for a measly GB#60 pa. I'm not going to argue with you about it, our opinions differ and that is that. -- Best regards, Craig http://slashboot.org/ Support OpenBSD http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html frantisek holop wrote: hmm, on Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 03:52:54PM +, Craig said that My oh my, that is an ill-informed rant, isn't it? Feel better now? I'm not going to a bloat out the list by explaining to your bruised ego, how you are wrong and have the wrong outlook in all of this. Go figure it out for yourself. may i inquire how long you've been with openbsd, sir? -f > no, wait, i have "figured it out". > > > """ > Firstly, I am fairly new to OpenBSD myself and so this advice does not > stem from any vast experience, > """ > > > i am so glad you chimed in with your insightful comment. > go look up when my name first appeared in the openbsd mail archives, > and then maybe we can talk. > > -f
Re: soekris
--- Gustavo Rios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anybody have a soekris box and would like to give a shell > account > for some testing? > I am considering to buy one for me, but i would like, previously, to > be able to feel what it is like. What sort of testing? About feelings, it depends on what is installed and how it is installed. You can use, for instance, a compact flash card, a 3.5" (laptop) hard drive, or a combination of these (I think). I am running on only a 128 MB CF card so it is difficult to have a full install (I don't have full functionality but today's affordable large capacity CF cards make full installs possible). Flash allows me to unplug the unit any time and not worry about disk problems. Typically the Soekris is used for some kind of gateway but you cannot expect it to handle a large network since it has resource limitations (cpu, ram). So these are some examples of the differences you may encounter. Other than that, my system performs very well on a small lan and I am very happy. Here is my df: Filesystem SizeUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/wd0a 118M 21.7M 90.0M19%/ mfs:30147 7.8M100K7.3M 1%/tmp Notice I am using a memory/RAM filesystem for any writing it needs to do. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: openbsd and the money
hmm, on Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 11:23:02AM -0700, Theo de Raadt said that > > it would be interesting to know about how MUCH money donated > > to the openbsd project you all are REALLY talking here... > > Sad, eh. 350 donation transactions in one month. I had no idea > that the OpenSSH deployment on the planet was that small. I > suspected it to be much higher: > > http://openssh.com/usage/graphs.html i am really not entitled to judge you, except the creator no one is. but answer me frankly please, do you think that the "legend" of your personality is helping to raise funds for the project? do you think that people who don't know you in person (i don't), people who don't read misc@ daily know anything *else* about you apart being "difficult"? your reputation walks miles in front of you, and it's not really favourable i am afraid. not that *i* care. and i am sure many do not, as long as the quality is as high as it is. but many do i am also sure. how long would wikipedia survive with a userbase attitude like yours? everything is connected with everything. -f -- a man serves best, when he serves himself.
Re: openbsd and the money
On 3/23/06, Michael Hernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a feeling this has been asked before but I'm sure there > are new readers on this list (such as myself) that could benefit from > a repeated answer. It certainly has. Did you search the list archives? You can easily find the answer there. Please use the archives, yielding messages such as: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=openbsd-misc&m=109823147212252&w=2 Cheers, Rogier -- If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there.
Re: openbsd and the money
On 3/23/06, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > it would be interesting to know about how MUCH money donated > > to the openbsd project you all are REALLY talking here... > > In the last month about 1/5th of what we need to run in a year > has been donated. > > Sad, eh. 350 donation transactions in one month. I had no idea > that the OpenSSH deployment on the planet was that small. I > suspected it to be much higher: > > http://openssh.com/usage/graphs.html > And it disgusts me that my employer, who has tons of installations of OpenSSH using Redhat Linux, Cisco equipment, and Solaris, and for whom $100,000 is a drop in the bucket, won't be bothered to spend $1 or to use it's considerable influence to convince the aforementioned companies to donate. Until I hear otherwise from Marco or one of the VPs at work, my disgust will remain. I'm going to bring my efforts down a level or two, but much wider, and see if I can get my fellow admins around the company to buy and donate. Greg
Re: openbsd and the money
> >> it would be interesting to know about how MUCH money donated > >> to the openbsd project you all are REALLY talking here... > > > > In the last month about 1/5th of what we need to run in a year > > has been donated. > > > > Sad, eh. 350 donation transactions in one month. I had no idea > > that the OpenSSH deployment on the planet was that small. I > > suspected it to be much higher: > > > > http://openssh.com/usage/graphs.html > > > > I noticed that donations to OpenBSD "are not US tax deductible as > charitable contribution". > > American companies would give you more money if it were. Of course > you know that already, > so this is not to suggest that you have not thought of it. Hopefully > it won't generate too much > anger if I ask why not? What keeps the OpenBSD project from > filing as a non-profit? Is it > the location (i.e. Canada)? I have a feeling this has been asked > before but I'm sure there > are new readers on this list (such as myself) that could benefit from > a repeated answer. There are very good reasons for not becoming a non-profit. Accounting wise it would NOT help the project. Non-profits with such a small amount of money are severely limited in what they can do. This question has been answered at least 20 times before. Now 21 times...
Re: openbsd and the money
On Mar 23, 2006, at 1:23 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: it would be interesting to know about how MUCH money donated to the openbsd project you all are REALLY talking here... In the last month about 1/5th of what we need to run in a year has been donated. Sad, eh. 350 donation transactions in one month. I had no idea that the OpenSSH deployment on the planet was that small. I suspected it to be much higher: http://openssh.com/usage/graphs.html I noticed that donations to OpenBSD "are not US tax deductible as charitable contribution". American companies would give you more money if it were. Of course you know that already, so this is not to suggest that you have not thought of it. Hopefully it won't generate too much anger if I ask why not? What keeps the OpenBSD project from filing as a non-profit? Is it the location (i.e. Canada)? I have a feeling this has been asked before but I'm sure there are new readers on this list (such as myself) that could benefit from a repeated answer. Mike
Re: Broadcom BCM5701 NICs: Only ICMP, no TCP/UDP?
On 3/23/06, Alexander Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I tried to install OpenBSD 3.8 on a box with two Gigabit 3Com cards with > Broadcom BCM5701 chipset. I set up networking, configured the ip address, > set the default route, put the nameserver into the resolv.conf file. Pinging > the nameserver works, resolving dns names and doing anything over tcp or udp have you tried something like ftp to the gateway? i think it's unlikely a nic could somehow only work with icmp.
Re: openbsd and the money
> it would be interesting to know about how MUCH money donated > to the openbsd project you all are REALLY talking here... In the last month about 1/5th of what we need to run in a year has been donated. Sad, eh. 350 donation transactions in one month. I had no idea that the OpenSSH deployment on the planet was that small. I suspected it to be much higher: http://openssh.com/usage/graphs.html
Re: no-df and OS Fingerprint issue
On Wed, March 22, 2006 10:18 pm, Diego Casati wrote: > Hi, > > Im trying to block a Windows XP SP2 with the OSFP support on PF but a > rather odd behavior seems to be happening. Not sure about this. This is > the > only lines that I have on my pf.conf. The thing is, when I take the word > "no-df" from the scrub line it works, what I am missing here? If a take > the > no-df statement it works! > # pf.conf > > ext_if="vr0" > scrub in on $ext_if all no-df > block in on $ext_if from any os "Windows XP SP1" > > reguards, > > > Diego > my guess would be that 'scrub no-df' clears the df flag on all the incoming packets thus throwing off the matching. windows seems to like df flag a lot. -- nick
Re: Privilege separation & privilege revocation
--- "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Salvatti?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all, > > I've tried to find any definition on the Internet before but I really > couldn't find a paper or anything that could clear up my doubts. If > anyone here could help me I'd be very thankful. The questions are the > following: > > 1. What is privilege separation? > It's a technique that prevents your code from having to run under a privileged user to achieve a privileged task. Instead of having a single process running, you get an unprivileged process and a privileged process. The unprivileged process executes most of the code, and requests the privileged process to perform the privileged task on its behalf. The code that is executed under the privileged account is kept as simple and small as possible, limiting the risks in case of an "evil bug" (c). > 2. What is privilege revocation? > It's a technique that consists of lowering the privileges of an application after it has performed its initial privileged tasks. Your httpd for example MUST be started as root to listen on port 80 (which is privileged), but does not require to run as root to handle its clients. So, it starts at root, does the privileged tasks, then "drops" (or revoks) privileges to run as an unprivileged "www" user. > 3. What is ProPolice? > A GCC extension for protecting applications from stack-smashing attacks. it's all explained on google ;) > Thanks. > np.
Re: anoncvs + OPENBSD_3_9_BASE
On 3/23/06, Bob Bostwick (Lists) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is that why /snapshots/packages/i386/ is not available? I'm probably > going to get yelled at for asking this, but I really don't know the > answer. I just upgraded to -current, if I can't use > /snapshots/packages/i386/ for installing packages, where should I > install from? Yes I ordered a 3.9 CD, but would like to use this system > before the release. Do I have to re-install 3.8? Yes I am installing > what I can from /usr/ports/xxx (yes I updated that too) but some things > I want are not in there... every package is in ports (somewhere). you can't build packages without ports to start with.
Re: Privilege separation & privilege revocation
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 10:14:12AM -0300, Joco Salvatti wrote: > Hi all, > > I've tried to find any definition on the Internet before but I really > couldn't find a paper or anything that could clear up my doubts. If > anyone here could help me I'd be very thankful. The questions are the > following: > > 1. What is privilege separation? > 2. What is privilege revocation? > 3. What is ProPolice? > > Thanks. See Wikipedia's OpenBSD entry and the ProPolice page linked from there. Basically, the first two involve running with less priviliges than the process was started with, and the last one protects from certain buffer overflows, which is a common exploitable bug in C programs. Nothing Google couldn't answer. Please search first; if you genuinely want to know something that cannot be found elsewhere, please ask again. Joachim
Re: openbsd and the money
> you Theo, have the luxury only few have Actually the real luxury all of us have is that we can delete mails from people who only think of themselves. > WE make it possible for YOU Theo to do this. > so don't tell me i am lucky to use openbsd. Fine. So stop making it possible for (not me), but ALL OF US, to do this, and then don't complain. When Marco and others send mails out about these issues, they are making it clear that the balance sheet is not fine. We have received 350 financial donations (Centered around $20) in the last month. I did not know there were so few OpenSSH users in the world. That's the balance sheet I am talking about. And regarding just OpenSSH, I have over 2000 lines of diffs of work in it lined up right now... my god, you sure don't make me want to commit them. Our situation is not a luxury. We work hard at it. If anything it is a mental disease that we work so hard at these things.
Re: anoncvs + OPENBSD_3_9_BASE
> Is that why /snapshots/packages/i386/ is not available? During the 3.9 release cycle BUILDS we run out of space in our FTP partition temporarily. And so do quite a few mirrors -- so we are cautious in this regard. The packages for one release are 19GB. Considering that most FTP sites contain the previous release (3.8) and snapshots, and will soon suddenly include 3.9 that is a lot of disk. There will be new snapshot packages very soon.
Re: BGP attributes and OpenBGPD
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 01:58:07PM -0300, Anderson Nadal wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ok!
>
> But, how to? :)
>
> It's my bgpd.conf. Just "set metric" ?
>
Yep.
> group "peering" {
> remote-as 1234
> neighbor $peer1 {
> descr "MAIN"
> announce all
> local-address $local1
> depend on carp1
> set metric 1
> set localpref 100
> }
> neighbor $peer2 {
> descr "BKP"
> announce all
> local-address $local2
> depend on carp2
> set metric 10
> set localpref 80
> }
> }
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Regards.
>
> []'s
> Nadal
>
>
>
> []'s
> Nadal
>
>
> Claudio Jeker wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 10:15:50AM -0300, Anderson Nadal wrote:
> >
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> Hello.
> >>
> >> In OpenBGPD is possible to send bgp attributes like MED to
> >> neighbor?
> >>
> >
> > The MED you set is redistributed to your neighbors. OpenBGPD
> > behaves as it is described in the RFC.
> >
>
> - --
> +---+
> | Anderson Nadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - RHCE |
> |Coordenador Tecnico|
> | Fone: + 55 41 3331 8200 |
> | FAX: + 55 41 3331 8256 |
> | OndaRPC |
> | www.ondarpc.com.br |
> |Registered Linux User: 56841 |
> | PGP KEY: www.keyserver.net KEY ID 6ABB668D|
> | M.O.V.I |
> +---+
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFEItOeLQAusHT90XQRAmK8AKCpEZtqnnd0hlRj1Vb/T7q0QdjcFgCgtT5m
> gi7UALdyNcT1EczVX2y4W1U=
> =0oA0
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
--
:wq Claudio
Re: Privilege separation & privilege revocation
Oops, I meant to post the latest version: http://www.openbsd.org/papers/ven05-deraadt/index.html Mike
Re: Privilege separation & privilege revocation
http://www.openbsd.org/papers/auug04/index.html MikeG Joco Salvatti wrote: Hi all, I've tried to find any definition on the Internet before but I really couldn't find a paper or anything that could clear up my doubts. If anyone here could help me I'd be very thankful. The questions are the following: 1. What is privilege separation? 2. What is privilege revocation? 3. What is ProPolice? Thanks. -- Joco Salvatti Undergraduating in Computer Science Federal University of Para - UFPA web: http://salvatti.expert.com.br e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: openbsd and the money
it would be interesting to know about how MUCH money donated to the openbsd project you all are REALLY talking here... if there's any up-to-date published information, plz. let me know... best regards! ps: sorry guys, i couldn't 'stand it ;_)
Re: openbsd and the money
frantisek holop wrote: unfortunately there is no real community around openbsd. at least i dont see one -- one where there are people without cvs commit. if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad that you can use this stuff. Have you noticed how many posts now start with something along the lines of 'OpenBSD is really good thanks guys' before asking a question? I have to agree with you, at least in part. I have been using OpenBSD for at least 5 years and have found it to be an excellent product. It has never let me down and has been well worth the money. But posting to the mailing lists has been an entirely different experience. When I have a problem I usually try for days to work it out on my own I read all the man pages that might be related and try plenty of google searches. Then when posting I try and put in all the information I can. But often the response is glib, terse or simply non existent, and when I've asked more than one (related) question in the post then usually only one will ever be answered. The real shame is that I often see questions on here that I think I could answer, but just don't feel it's worth getting involved. I do understand that reading and answering all the newbie questions on the list must be very hard work and it's all done voluntarily I aBut I do believe that if people on this list were a bit more understanding then the general opinion of OpenBSD itself would be greatly improved. There are a few typical things that tend to happen on here: People miss things that are obvious to other people. We're all human. If you kindly pointed out what I've missed I'll probably realize how obvious it is and be quite embarrassed. Nevertheless you will have helped me a great deal for not a lot of effort on your part. Requests for new functionality don't deserve to be met with 'we're too busy code it yourself' or similar. Don't you want to know what features people might be interested in? A request for something else doesn't Anything that 'has been discussed on this list endlessly before' should probably be in the FAQ. (Even if it's about how something works or the merits of the particular approach taken.) If you don't follow the list closely there's very little chance of you finding the previous threads. (Of course if it is in the FAQ or can be found with a simple google search this doesn't apply.) Ill thought out patches (usually security related) It wasn't a good idea of him or her to think that they know better than someone who's spent years working in the area and the effort of patiently explaining all the places where they've gone wrong is likely to be huge. But still they are just learning. Just say a brief 'this is not a good idea because...' and leave the thread alone. Unfortunately the people who disagree with me will have already stopped reading this thread. Mike
Re: anoncvs + OPENBSD_3_9_BASE
On 3/23/06, Bob Bostwick (Lists) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is that why /snapshots/packages/i386/ is not available? I'm probably > going to get yelled at for asking this, but I really don't know the > answer. I just upgraded to -current, if I can't use > /snapshots/packages/i386/ for installing packages, where should I > install from? Yes I ordered a 3.9 CD, but would like to use this system > before the release. Do I have to re-install 3.8? Yes I am installing > what I can from /usr/ports/xxx (yes I updated that too) but some things > I want are not in there... This has been beaten to death in other threads. The developers are busy making sure that OpenBSD 3.9 is going to be released on schedule, and don't really have that much time to spend on snapshots (right now). If you really want to follow current, try getting the current ports tree and compiling the packages yourself until the packages dir is back in the snapshots dir. Jason
soekris
Does anybody have a soekris box and would like to give a shell account for some testing? I am considering to buy one for me, but i would like, previously, to be able to feel what it is like. Thanks. PS: Of course, i expect it to run openbsd.
Re: DST oddity in Australia/NSW timezone
> I just noticed that a fresh 3.8 install doesn't contain the DST > exception that has been declared for Australia (NSW and ACT) this year, > apparently to accommodate the Commonwealth Games. Yes, it is very hard for us to cope with governments that don't understand what they are doing, ahead of when they decide to be so stupid
Re: BGP attributes and OpenBGPD
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Ok!
But, how to? :)
It's my bgpd.conf. Just "set metric" ?
group "peering" {
remote-as 1234
neighbor $peer1 {
descr "MAIN"
announce all
local-address $local1
depend on carp1
set metric 1
set localpref 100
}
neighbor $peer2 {
descr "BKP"
announce all
local-address $local2
depend on carp2
set metric 10
set localpref 80
}
}
Thanks a lot.
Regards.
[]'s
Nadal
[]'s
Nadal
Claudio Jeker wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 10:15:50AM -0300, Anderson Nadal wrote:
>
>> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> In OpenBGPD is possible to send bgp attributes like MED to
>> neighbor?
>>
>
> The MED you set is redistributed to your neighbors. OpenBGPD
> behaves as it is described in the RFC.
>
- --
+---+
| Anderson Nadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - RHCE |
|Coordenador Tecnico|
| Fone: + 55 41 3331 8200 |
| FAX: + 55 41 3331 8256 |
| OndaRPC |
| www.ondarpc.com.br |
|Registered Linux User: 56841 |
| PGP KEY: www.keyserver.net KEY ID 6ABB668D|
| M.O.V.I |
+---+
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEItOeLQAusHT90XQRAmK8AKCpEZtqnnd0hlRj1Vb/T7q0QdjcFgCgtT5m
gi7UALdyNcT1EczVX2y4W1U=
=0oA0
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: anoncvs + OPENBSD_3_9_BASE
Is that why /snapshots/packages/i386/ is not available? I'm probably going to get yelled at for asking this, but I really don't know the answer. I just upgraded to -current, if I can't use /snapshots/packages/i386/ for installing packages, where should I install from? Yes I ordered a 3.9 CD, but would like to use this system before the release. Do I have to re-install 3.8? Yes I am installing what I can from /usr/ports/xxx (yes I updated that too) but some things I want are not in there...
Re: openbsd and the money
On 3/23/06, Fergus Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thursday 23 March 2006 14:09, frantisek holop wrote: > > just before i order my 3.9: > > > > this is what i feel sometimes, and i think sometimes more of you do. > > > > > > people who read misc@ for years might identify the following > > (for me disturbing) trend: > > > > > > twice a year (or maybe more) when it comes to money issues, Theo and > > the devs ask for donations, cd purchases. at the same time, people > > are every once in a while reminded how "lucky" they are to use what > > the devs create solely "for themselves". this brainwashing is so > > effective even some other advocators are using it now, defending > > the poor helpless devs. > > > > > > unfortunately there is no real community around openbsd. at least > > i dont see one -- one where there are people without cvs commit. > > if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ > > will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part > > of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad > > that you can use this stuff. > > Well I've been lurking here a long time, and feel I have had massive > return > for the odd purchase and donation. I don't see any hypocrisy whatever in > the > development process, rather I thank my lucky stars that OBSD has a strong > purpose and direction. I don't think it's a problem that people are told > they > can't expect to get features put into or changed > > > > > > except when it comes to money. well, well. > > > > then suddenly we ARE a community, we are NEEDED and should feel as one, > > so we can join powers and walk off into the setting sun. > > > > > > > > it is this hypocracy i hate the most (just as much as Theo does too > > -- that is why i love openbsd). if the project needs my money, > > i'd like to see a different stance from Theo and the devs and > > not the default "go run something else idiot, we don't need you." > > > > > > because you obviously need my at least twice a year. > > > > > > > > you Theo, have the luxury only few have: work full time on what > > you like the most. you don't have to go to meetings and live > > the corporate rat's life or some such non-sense. > > > > WE make it possible for YOU Theo to do this. > > so don't tell me i am lucky to use openbsd. > > > > > > having said that, i am going to order 3.9 just as i have been ordering > > releases every 6 month since i started making money. > > > > -f > > -- > Fergus Wilde > Chetham's Library > Long Millgate > Manchester > M3 1SB > > Tel: 0161 834 7961 > Fax: 0161 839 5797 > > http://www.chethams.org.uk > > Hello, I've been using OpenBSD for about a year now and lurking the mailing list and sometimes posting. Got yelled and appreciated it as it helped me understand that I have to do some work and not expect a silver platter answer. I think it is great that the devs are blogging what they are doing on undeadly. Also, how many times with other companies does the head dev and founder answer a nobodies e-mail? : ) rogern John 3:16
Re: openbsd and the money
I would really appreciate if you guys could stop responding to this thread.
Re: Sendmail security problem
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006, Alexey E. Suslikov wrote: > All I know, sendmail.org says I can not patch versions below > 8.13.5: That's wrong. See the 8.13.6 note: and 8.12 are availabe at our FTP site. However, note that those patches do not (cleanly) apply to versions other than 8.13.5 and 8.12.11, respectively, at least the patch for sendmail/version.c will fail, but that can be ignored. Moreover, these patches may not even work with older version as there have been other changes before. That is, you can apply the patch and if only version.c fails, then you can give it a try. However, sendmail.org won't provide support for such a patched version.
Re: openbsd and the money
On Thursday 23 March 2006 14:09, frantisek holop wrote: > just before i order my 3.9: > > this is what i feel sometimes, and i think sometimes more of you do. > > > people who read misc@ for years might identify the following > (for me disturbing) trend: > > > twice a year (or maybe more) when it comes to money issues, Theo and > the devs ask for donations, cd purchases. at the same time, people > are every once in a while reminded how "lucky" they are to use what > the devs create solely "for themselves". this brainwashing is so > effective even some other advocators are using it now, defending > the poor helpless devs. > > > unfortunately there is no real community around openbsd. at least > i dont see one -- one where there are people without cvs commit. > if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ > will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part > of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad > that you can use this stuff. Well I've been lurking here a long time, and feel I have had massive return for the odd purchase and donation. I don't see any hypocrisy whatever in the development process, rather I thank my lucky stars that OBSD has a strong purpose and direction. I don't think it's a problem that people are told they can't expect to get features put into or changed > > > except when it comes to money. well, well. > > then suddenly we ARE a community, we are NEEDED and should feel as one, > so we can join powers and walk off into the setting sun. > > > > it is this hypocracy i hate the most (just as much as Theo does too > -- that is why i love openbsd). if the project needs my money, > i'd like to see a different stance from Theo and the devs and > not the default "go run something else idiot, we don't need you." > > > because you obviously need my at least twice a year. > > > > you Theo, have the luxury only few have: work full time on what > you like the most. you don't have to go to meetings and live > the corporate rat's life or some such non-sense. > > WE make it possible for YOU Theo to do this. > so don't tell me i am lucky to use openbsd. > > > having said that, i am going to order 3.9 just as i have been ordering > releases every 6 month since i started making money. > > -f -- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk
Re: openbsd and the money
On Thursday 23 March 2006 09:36, you wrote: > This is what I see: > > Community - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > and as far as I can remember non of devs has ever told me what I'm nobody. Good for you. > On Thursday 23 March 2006 15:09, frantisek holop wrote: > > just before i order my 3.9: > > > > this is what i feel sometimes, and i think sometimes more of you do. It is very unfortunate that this is the case. Sometimes bad attitudes (and who knows what) get's in the way. We can also pretend nobody get's flamed for being a newbe or asking a stupid question. There's an old adage - hat, don't hit. (Or educate, for those not familiar with the use of hat.) When you have sufficient misunderstandings, you go blank. True, some people are too lazy to look things up themselves, and like it served on a silver platter. But most are simply dumbed down from not knowing enough after staring at too many incomprehensible things. As long as people fry those who know less, it will supress community growth because it will also be noticed by those with enough compassion, who don't like seing people get fried, regardless of who's fried. If someone here has the gall, or ignorance, to say that members of the "team" don't let their misemotions flare up on, or from, this list - we'll, you'll put a smile on this author's face. Goodwill must be earned. Which the technical merits of OBSD supplies whenever noticed. But it goes away and is more hard earned each time anyone in "official" positions shows a "poor" choice of words and turns a poor sole into a crisp one. An old friend of mine once stated that people's emotional baggage is like walking around with one of those big black garbage bags over your shoulder. With a hole in it. Where ever you go you leave some... One thing having character means is to hold oneself back from striking out, however justified, and just respond with kind words. It also takes guts. But in the long run is always paid back with interest. If someone feels singled out by this, I can assure you that would be a coincident as this is entirely fictional... at least for some. Now, try to go in peace. -- Steve Szmidt "For evil to triumph all that is needed is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
Re: openbsd and the money
My oh my, that is an ill-informed rant, isn't it? Feel better now? I'm not going to a bloat out the list by explaining to your bruised ego, how you are wrong and have the wrong outlook in all of this. Go figure it out for yourself. -- Best regards, Craig http://slashboot.org/ Support OpenBSD http://www.openbsd.org/orders.html frantisek holop wrote: just before i order my 3.9: this is what i feel sometimes, and i think sometimes more of you do. people who read misc@ for years might identify the following (for me disturbing) trend: twice a year (or maybe more) when it comes to money issues, Theo and the devs ask for donations, cd purchases. at the same time, people are every once in a while reminded how "lucky" they are to use what the devs create solely "for themselves". this brainwashing is so effective even some other advocators are using it now, defending the poor helpless devs. unfortunately there is no real community around openbsd. at least i dont see one -- one where there are people without cvs commit. if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad that you can use this stuff. except when it comes to money. well, well. then suddenly we ARE a community, we are NEEDED and should feel as one, so we can join powers and walk off into the setting sun. it is this hypocracy i hate the most (just as much as Theo does too -- that is why i love openbsd). if the project needs my money, i'd like to see a different stance from Theo and the devs and not the default "go run something else idiot, we don't need you." because you obviously need my at least twice a year. you Theo, have the luxury only few have: work full time on what you like the most. you don't have to go to meetings and live the corporate rat's life or some such non-sense. WE make it possible for YOU Theo to do this. so don't tell me i am lucky to use openbsd. having said that, i am going to order 3.9 just as i have been ordering releases every 6 month since i started making money. -f
Re: openbsd and the money
On 3/23/06, frantisek holop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> i never did try to present this as absolute truth, all the mail is > my personal opinion. just shutup and donate already! -K
Re: openbsd and the money
Hello frantisek, Thursday, March 23, 2006, 8:09:08 AM, you wrote: fh> this is what i feel sometimes, and i think sometimes more of you do. fh> unfortunately there is no real community around openbsd. at least fh> i dont see one -- one where there are people without cvs commit. fh> if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ fh> will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part fh> of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad fh> that you can use this stuff. fh> except when it comes to money. well, well. I'm an 'end user' of OpenBSD... running it on three servers. I consider myself a peripheral member of the OpenBSD community, whether anyone else does, or not. My primary contributions to the community, because I am pretty much a newbie, and not a user, are: 1) ask whatever questions I must, as intelligently as possible, and as I acquire more knowledge, to answer the questions that are posted to misc@ by newbies newer than myself, as accurately as possible, and... 2) contribute financially. I'm not in the least averse to throwing down some cash, for a product that does what it does as well as OpenBSD, and I am also perfectly willing to do as much homework as necessary... almost completely on my own... to really, really, really learn what I am doing, and eventually be in a position to actively contribute to the project substantially. I figure that when I have earned respect... it will be given. -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ . http://robertwittig.net/
SGI O2 R12000
Anyone who know what those two lines should look like if I created {a
b d e g h} partitions during the installation process (the whole disk
is used for openbsd).
SystemPartition=...
OSLoadPartition=...
It's a IBM 9GB SCSI disk in the slot next to the last one (seen from
back in right direction).
backside of my O2
| MOBO | heatsink | empty PCI | hdd | audio |
The current lines look like:
SystemPartition=pci(0)scsi(0)disk(2)rdisk(0)partition(8)
OSLoadPartition=pci(0)scsi(0)disk(2)rdisk(0)partition(0)
please note that it's a R12000.
/bkw
installation went fine I tried to reboot the system, what happens
after reboot is nothing. No "boot >", but I can enter the maintaing
menu.
Maybe of these lines have to be changed in console(maintain menu):
SystemPartition=pci(0)scsi(0)disk(2)rdisk(0)partition(8)
OSLoadPartition=pci(0)scsi(0)disk(2)rdisk(0)partition(0)
In case that's my problem I don't know which one to change.
printenv is pasted bellow.
System Maintenance Menu
1) Start System
2) Install System Software
3) Run Diagnostics
4) Recover System
5) Enter Command Monitor
Option? 5
Command Monitor. Type "exit" to return to the menu.
> printenv
AutoLoad=Yes
diskless=0
dbaud=9600
volume=80
sgilogo=y
monitor=h
TimeZone=PST8PDT
netaddr=192.0.2.1
crt_option=1
SystemPartition=pci(0)scsi(0)disk(2)rdisk(0)partition(8)
OSLoadPartition=pci(0)scsi(0)disk(2)rdisk(0)partition(0)
OSLoader=boot
OSLoadFilename=/bsd.rd
OSLoadOptions=auto
console=d
ConsoleOut=serial(0)
ConsoleIn=serial(0)
cpufreq=270
eaddr=08:00:69:0e:9b:ab
videostatus=illegal_env_var
--
Re: openbsd and the money
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 04:03:58PM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: > i never did try to present this as absolute truth, all the mail is > my personal opinion. Okay, thanks for clarifying that. -p.
Re: openbsd and the money
hmm, on Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 11:49:49AM -0300, Pedro Martelletto said that > On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 03:09:08PM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: > > if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ > > will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part > > of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad > > that you can use this stuff. > > It's perfectly understandable that you felt this way, but please do not > try to externalize that as an absolute truth without providing > arguments, even if they are obvious to you. Lacking them makes your post > go from a constructive proposal to a completely crude calumny. i never did try to present this as absolute truth, all the mail is my personal opinion. my argument is in the archives, full of this. "we do this because we like to do this, you are using the byproduct of this, it _happens_ to be good for you, shut up and code, etc, etc". is anybody really surprised? if someone tells you: "leave me alone, asshole", will you give him money, even if you like what he does? anyway, my apologies to all the "devs", i don't think everyone agress with absolutely everything the "core" does even if they have cvs commit. i don't care if this becomes a flamewar, i had to say this because noone else did and i was waiting for it since around 3.2. -f -- life is lived forwards, but understood backwards.
Re: openbsd and the money
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 03:09:08PM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: > if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ > will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part > of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad > that you can use this stuff. It's perfectly understandable that you felt this way, but please do not try to externalize that as an absolute truth without providing arguments, even if they are obvious to you. Lacking them makes your post go from a constructive proposal to a completely crude calumny. -p.
Re: openbsd and the money
frantisek holop wrote: except when it comes to money. well, well. then suddenly we ARE a community, we are NEEDED and should feel as one, so we can join powers and walk off into the setting sun. it is this hypocracy i hate the most (just as much as Theo does too -- that is why i love openbsd). if the project needs my money, i'd like to see a different stance from Theo and the devs and not the default "go run something else idiot, we don't need you." because you obviously need my at least twice a year. Brilliant! Now my wife will like OpenBSD because of this new soap opera channel. Thanks! Craig.
Re: openbsd and the money
This is what I see: Community - [EMAIL PROTECTED] and as far as I can remember non of devs has ever told me what I'm nobody. On Thursday 23 March 2006 15:09, frantisek holop wrote: > just before i order my 3.9: > > this is what i feel sometimes, and i think sometimes more of you do. > > > people who read misc@ for years might identify the following > (for me disturbing) trend: > > > twice a year (or maybe more) when it comes to money issues, Theo and > the devs ask for donations, cd purchases. at the same time, people > are every once in a while reminded how "lucky" they are to use what > the devs create solely "for themselves". this brainwashing is so > effective even some other advocators are using it now, defending > the poor helpless devs. > > > unfortunately there is no real community around openbsd. at least > i dont see one -- one where there are people without cvs commit. > if you don't have cvs commit, you are a nobody that's what misc@ > will teach any newcomer using iron and fire. i try to be part > of a community but the devs say you are nobody and should be glad > that you can use this stuff. > > > except when it comes to money. well, well. > > then suddenly we ARE a community, we are NEEDED and should feel as one, > so we can join powers and walk off into the setting sun. > > > > it is this hypocracy i hate the most (just as much as Theo does too > -- that is why i love openbsd). if the project needs my money, > i'd like to see a different stance from Theo and the devs and > not the default "go run something else idiot, we don't need you." > > > because you obviously need my at least twice a year. > > > > you Theo, have the luxury only few have: work full time on what > you like the most. you don't have to go to meetings and live > the corporate rat's life or some such non-sense. > > WE make it possible for YOU Theo to do this. > so don't tell me i am lucky to use openbsd. > > > having said that, i am going to order 3.9 just as i have been ordering > releases every 6 month since i started making money. > > -f
Re: openbsd and the money
On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 03:09:08PM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: > [...] > Now can EVERBODY please submit their personal feelings and put oil into this starting FLAMEWAR. Oh and please add a "THEOFLAMEWAR" string to the subject, so that i can easily set up maildrop rules... Thanks! Tobias
