Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi,

On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 12:07 AM, Dominik Guder  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have another request which is high priority for me:
> Review of nant's unit testing concept.
>
> Currently I would like to use test first for implementing and fixing.
> But as far as I can see it is not possible to run nant's test from
> within IDE.
>
> I have a basic unterdstanding why this is done this way (started nearly
> 10 Years ago), but now these tests looks more like integration tests
> than unit tests in TDD thinking.
>
> Maybe we can add another test project where we can run tests within IDE
> and on build server too.
Forgive me but I am having difficulty trying to envision what you are
after here.  I would like to explore it more if you could give an
example on how you see this working.

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> So far Dominik
>
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Dominik Guder]

Hi,

I have another request which is high priority for me:
Review of nant's unit testing concept.

Currently I would like to use test first for implementing and fixing. 
But as far as I can see it is not possible to run nant's test from 
within IDE.

I have a basic unterdstanding why this is done this way (started nearly 
10 Years ago), but now these tests looks more like integration tests 
than unit tests in TDD thinking.

Maybe we can add another test project where we can run tests within IDE 
and on build server too.

So far Dominik

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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Dominik Guder]

Hi,

my console coloring is using System.Console.ForeColor too. My nant is a 
private build on .net 2.0 runtime. So it could be checked easily, if 
this is (and your patch) working on linux mono.

So far Dominik

>
> ColoredConsoleAppender uses Win32 APIs from kernel.dll which is unlikely
> to work on Linux 8-)
>
> For most Unix terminals log4net has AnsiColorTerminalAppender which
> doesn't work with your usual Windows console.
>
> There is a patch
> that uses Console.ForeGround but so far nobody has taken the time to
> review it.
>
> Stefan
>



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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Rob Richardson]

- Original Message -
From: Stefan Bodewig 
To: nant-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

On 2011-10-26, Ryan Boggs wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Stefan Bodewig
>  wrote:

>> When I worked on the log4net release I cursed NAnt's lack of a 
>> so a big +1 for this.  I also miss .  Badly.
> I should add  too, eh?

> This may be my Ant bias.  log4net's build file is a big mess of
> copy-paste and I think macrodef would help, but maybe there is a
> NAnt-idiomatic way of fixing that without macrodef.  It looks as if
> "call"ing a target is something you'd do more lightly and more often in
> NAnt than in Ant.

In Ant if you "call" a target and return, the variables set in that inner 
target aren't available in the outer scope.  Therefore you can't easily create 
"call"-able, reusable functions that return stuff, you can only create helpful 
things that do things.  Thus, in Ant, you create insane dependency chains.  The 
way around this in Ant is .

In NAnt if you "call" something and return, all the variables set in the inner 
scope still exist.  Therefore I can create helpful "figure out the path" 
call-able targets or  around a call target or intermingle in effect 
function calls with pre- and post-processing code.

I find NAnt's paradigm more helpful and easier to understand, though I 
understand why Ant chose to scope properties the way it did.  In the end, 
having an NAnt  would be very useful, but it'd be less useful to 
those who understand the difference between property scopes between the 
products and more useful to people trying to copy/paste functionality from Ant.

Rob

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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi,

On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 2:17 AM, Stefan Bodewig
 wrote:
> On 2011-10-26, Ryan Boggs wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Stefan Bodewig
>>  wrote:
>
>>> Why do you feel Sourceforge's git offering was insufficient - this is
>>> an honest question as I may be thinking about moving XMLUnit to a
>>> different SCM myself (currently using svn at Sourceforge).
>
>> It just doesn't feel like there is alot of effort on the repo side in
>> terms of code reviews and other tools that sites like github have.
>
> Understood, thanks.
>
>>> When I worked on the log4net release I cursed NAnt's lack of a 
>>> so a big +1 for this.  I also miss .  Badly.
>> I should add  too, eh?
>
> This may be my Ant bias.  log4net's build file is a big mess of
> copy-paste and I think macrodef would help, but maybe there is a
> NAnt-idiomatic way of fixing that without macrodef.  It looks as if
> "call"ing a target is something you'd do more lightly and more often in
> NAnt than in Ant.
Well, either way, it's been added to the list. :)

>
>> It took me awhile to get NAnt to use log4net 1.2.10 because of
>> sharpcvslib's dependency on log4net 1.2.9.  Since I was recently
>> granted commit access to that project, I could see if I could upgrade
>> the dependency in both projects.
>
> Binding redirects?  I don't think we've made API changes that would
> cause trouble otherwise.
>
> Of course, if you can change the dependency then switching to 1.2.11 -
> and to the "new" strong name key - would probably be better.
The problem I had wasn't with the API but the fact that sharpcvslib
seemed hardcoded to 1.2.9.  It gave me some issues during tests using
Mono on *nix.  I can look into this a bit further to see what exactly
is going on.

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> Stefan
>
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Stefan Bodewig]

On 2011-10-26, Ryan Boggs wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Stefan Bodewig
>  wrote:

>> Why do you feel Sourceforge's git offering was insufficient - this is
>> an honest question as I may be thinking about moving XMLUnit to a
>> different SCM myself (currently using svn at Sourceforge).

> It just doesn't feel like there is alot of effort on the repo side in
> terms of code reviews and other tools that sites like github have.

Understood, thanks.

>> When I worked on the log4net release I cursed NAnt's lack of a 
>> so a big +1 for this.  I also miss .  Badly.
> I should add  too, eh?

This may be my Ant bias.  log4net's build file is a big mess of
copy-paste and I think macrodef would help, but maybe there is a
NAnt-idiomatic way of fixing that without macrodef.  It looks as if
"call"ing a target is something you'd do more lightly and more often in
NAnt than in Ant.

> It took me awhile to get NAnt to use log4net 1.2.10 because of
> sharpcvslib's dependency on log4net 1.2.9.  Since I was recently
> granted commit access to that project, I could see if I could upgrade
> the dependency in both projects.

Binding redirects?  I don't think we've made API changes that would
cause trouble otherwise.

Of course, if you can change the dependency then switching to 1.2.11 -
and to the "new" strong name key - would probably be better.

Stefan

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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Stefan Bodewig]

On 2011-10-27, Dominik Guder wrote:
> Am 26.10.2011 23:54, schrieb Ryan Boggs:
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Dominik Guder  wrote:

>>> Other proposals:
>>> - Color output. Red for errors, yellow for warning and green for
>>> sucessfull build. I added this to my own net_2.0 build and I'm addicted
>>> to this easily identifying Green successfull build message.

>> This would be good for Windows but we should take care in *nix systems
>> as some terminal emulators do not support color.

> A short look at mono's BCL implementation showed that
> Console.ForeGround is basically is implemented. But this must be
> checked for sure.  Maybe we can check this with Log4Net team since
> they are providing the ColoredConsoleAppender. (not for Mono
> currently)

ColoredConsoleAppender uses Win32 APIs from kernel.dll which is unlikely
to work on Linux 8-)

For most Unix terminals log4net has AnsiColorTerminalAppender which
doesn't work with your usual Windows console.

There is a patch 
that uses Console.ForeGround but so far nobody has taken the time to
review it.

Stefan

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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:47 AM, Dominik Guder  wrote:
> Am 26.10.2011 23:54, schrieb Ryan Boggs:
>> Hey Dominik,
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Dominik Guder  wrote:
>>> Hi Ryan,
>>>
>>> +1 for github.
>> How many responses should we collect before we make an official
>> decision on this? :)
>
> Just count :) I don't expect many votes for others like bitbucket.
Ok :)
>
>>>
>>> Other proposals:
>>> - Color output. Red for errors, yellow for warning and green for
>>> sucessfull build. I added this to my own net_2.0 build and I'm addicted
>>> to this easily identifying Green successfull build message.
>> Hehehe, That's a good idea.  I actually like that.
>>
>> This would be good for Windows but we should take care in *nix systems
>> as some terminal emulators do not support color.
>
> A short look at mono's BCL implementation showed that Console.ForeGround
>  is basically is implemented. But this must be checked for sure.
> Maybe we can check this with Log4Net team since they are providing the
> ColoredConsoleAppender. (not for Mono currently)
I've seen Mono use Console.Foreground on a *nix machine just fine
using Boo's interactive shell (booish) just fine.  The problem that I
saw was once the user gets out of booish when using certain terminal
types, the output would no longer print to the screen.  All I am
saying is to keep that in mind.  I still like this idea. :)
>
>>>
>>> - fix/polish commandline handling:
>>>    - remove anoying ":" as separator, this prevents you from using tab
>>>      completion in cmd window (even WiX did this with 3.5 release)
>>>    - add double dash as parameter prefix (as used at gnu tools) at least
>>>      for --help and --version
>> One thing I would like to investigate is implementing something like
>> Mono.Options instead of the home grown command args parser.  I've used
>> it in personal projects and it was pretty cool.  That may address your
>> concern here.
>
> This would be fine. But we also check how we can provide backwards
> compatibility.
I think backward compatibility (ie: jkeeping "-t::net-2.0" while
adding something like "-t net-2.0") is definitely possible.  But now
that I am reading the source code, I'm not 100% sure it would work on
.net 2.0.  I'll look into it further...

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> So far Dominik
>
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Dominik Guder]

Am 26.10.2011 23:54, schrieb Ryan Boggs:
> Hey Dominik,
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Dominik Guder  wrote:
>> Hi Ryan,
>>
>> +1 for github.
> How many responses should we collect before we make an official
> decision on this? :)

Just count :) I don't expect many votes for others like bitbucket.

>>
>> Other proposals:
>> - Color output. Red for errors, yellow for warning and green for
>> sucessfull build. I added this to my own net_2.0 build and I'm addicted
>> to this easily identifying Green successfull build message.
> Hehehe, That's a good idea.  I actually like that.
>
> This would be good for Windows but we should take care in *nix systems
> as some terminal emulators do not support color.

A short look at mono's BCL implementation showed that Console.ForeGround 
  is basically is implemented. But this must be checked for sure.
Maybe we can check this with Log4Net team since they are providing the 
ColoredConsoleAppender. (not for Mono currently)

>>
>> - fix/polish commandline handling:
>>- remove anoying ":" as separator, this prevents you from using tab
>>  completion in cmd window (even WiX did this with 3.5 release)
>>- add double dash as parameter prefix (as used at gnu tools) at least
>>  for --help and --version
> One thing I would like to investigate is implementing something like
> Mono.Options instead of the home grown command args parser.  I've used
> it in personal projects and it was pretty cool.  That may address your
> concern here.

This would be fine. But we also check how we can provide backwards 
compatibility.

So far Dominik

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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hey Dominik,

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Dominik Guder  wrote:
> Hi Ryan,
>
> +1 for github.
How many responses should we collect before we make an official
decision on this? :)
>
> And we should define/discus a contribution process to ensure that nant
> core will stay as stable as it is currently.
110% agree.  I would like to do this once the repo decision is made.
>
>
> Other proposals:
> - Color output. Red for errors, yellow for warning and green for
> sucessfull build. I added this to my own net_2.0 build and I'm addicted
> to this easily identifying Green successfull build message.
Hehehe, That's a good idea.  I actually like that.

This would be good for Windows but we should take care in *nix systems
as some terminal emulators do not support color.
>
> - solution task/msbuild polishing since there still issues with our
> projects.
Yeah, this is a popular option.  We should probably loop back this
task with the one in NAntContrib to see if we can get this stuff
straightened out.  I'm for this.
>
> SourceControl:
> - move CVS to nantcontrib
> - integrate git
> - polish svn
> - add tfs (see ci-factory)
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.  I also threw Mercurial in that list for good measure.
>
> http://ci-factory.googlecode.com/svn/Current/Product/Production/Nant/TF.Tasks/
>
> lower priority:
> - review nant.exe.config: maybe separate net-x and mono-x definitions
>   or one for each target. It is very large and hardly to maintain.
Good one, I agree.  Just not sure of the best approach.  We can
discuss this further.
>
> - fix/polish commandline handling:
>   - remove anoying ":" as separator, this prevents you from using tab
>     completion in cmd window (even WiX did this with 3.5 release)
>   - add double dash as parameter prefix (as used at gnu tools) at least
>     for --help and --version
One thing I would like to investigate is implementing something like
Mono.Options instead of the home grown command args parser.  I've used
it in personal projects and it was pretty cool.  That may address your
concern here.
>
> Check other ci-factory tasks to add them to nantcontrib.
>
> Hint: I found macrodef at ci-factory:
> http://ci-factory.googlecode.com/svn/Current/Product/Production/Nant/CIFactory.NAnt.Tasks/Tasks/
Oh wow, pretty cool.

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> It was getting longer and longer.
> So far Dominik
>
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Dominik Guder]

Hi Ryan,

+1 for github.

And we should define/discus a contribution process to ensure that nant 
core will stay as stable as it is currently.


Other proposals:
- Color output. Red for errors, yellow for warning and green for 
sucessfull build. I added this to my own net_2.0 build and I'm addicted 
to this easily identifying Green successfull build message.

- solution task/msbuild polishing since there still issues with our 
projects.

SourceControl:
- move CVS to nantcontrib
- integrate git
- polish svn
- add tfs (see ci-factory)
 
http://ci-factory.googlecode.com/svn/Current/Product/Production/Nant/TF.Tasks/

lower priority:
- review nant.exe.config: maybe separate net-x and mono-x definitions
   or one for each target. It is very large and hardly to maintain.

- fix/polish commandline handling:
   - remove anoying ":" as separator, this prevents you from using tab
 completion in cmd window (even WiX did this with 3.5 release)
   - add double dash as parameter prefix (as used at gnu tools) at least
 for --help and --version

Check other ci-factory tasks to add them to nantcontrib.

Hint: I found macrodef at ci-factory:
http://ci-factory.googlecode.com/svn/Current/Product/Production/Nant/CIFactory.NAnt.Tasks/Tasks/

It was getting longer and longer.
So far Dominik

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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback so far.  It's really great to hear all your
thoughts on these matters.  Please feel free to tell us your thoughts,
if you haven't already.

I went ahead and converted this list to a page on NAnt's wiki for
easier review and maintenance.  I have also made some updates based on
some of the feedback so far.  Please take a look...

https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/nant/index.php?title=TODO

Thanks,
Ryan

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Ryan Boggs  wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Now that 0.91 final is out the door, I would like to start discussing
> what items to work on in both NAnt/NAntContrib.  Attached is an html
> file of an outline I put together with thoughts about next steps I
> have had for months (I put it in an attachment just in case your email
> viewers don't handle html emails).  I tried to include items that have
> been discussed in past emails.  All of these items affect both
> NAnt/NAntContrib unless specified otherwise.
>
> One of the things that has been on my mind for months is moving NAnt
> off of cvs.  When I polled that decision some time ago, the general
> consensus was that any move away from cvs would be a step up.  My
> personal feeling is to move from cvs to git or hg to because it is
> more easy for me to work with than cvs.  The first item in my list
> compares the two more popular repo sites out there.  I am partial to
> github.com because I have been using it alot lately for other things
> (working on the Boo language project for example) but I would like to
> hear other thoughts.  I have been experimenting with converting cvs to
> git with a good degree of success (all history, tags, and branches
> come through) but I am sure further tweeking will be necessary.
>
> A side note, when 0.91 final was released, I wasn't sure what the next
> version of NAnt we would be targeting so I just set it to 0.92.  This
> can be discussed further if need be.
>
> Looking forward to hearing your feedback.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>

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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi,

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Rob Richardson  wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> Towards #net_4, I'd like to see an official download package for each runtime 
> we target.  E.g. one download for .net 1 (the one we have now ... until we 
> kill it off), .net 2, .net 4, mono vX, mono vY, etc -- e.g. a download per 
> #define tag.  Right now the only way to get a #net_4 runtime version is to 
> download source and compile.  That isn't too bad except I have to dig up a VM 
> that still has / I don't mind installing CVS onto.  (Referencing the previous 
> git / github +1.  :D)

Ahhh, I see.  That has been discussed in the past.  I personally do
not have a problem with this setup (others might, IIRC) but we would
probably have to figure out a smart approach to this.  On top of
figuring out whether or not official installers should be built (using
something like msi or NSIS).
>
> With git / github, check 
> out http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=27967861 and https://github.com/skolima/NAnt.
>   It'd be very, very nice if it was official. rather than cron-cloned.

That would be the plan.  I would like to keep the current cvs around
as a readonly history repo while all of the upcoming changes go into
whatever system is decided upon.  So no cron-cloned, just straight in.

>
> What is still needed with the  task?  I'd like to see more built-in 
> parameters instead of resulting to  but at the end of the day, it gets 
> it done.

Unfortunately, I need to dive in and see.  I am basing my response on
past conversations I have had with other team members.

>
> I'd love to help in any way I can.  I've got a nice library I'd love to share 
> that implements Ant's  and  tasks.  I've also got tasks 
> that list projects given a solution, list project content given a project (to 
> facilitate deploying a website), runs a sql command given a connection string 
> or an app/web.config and (optionally) connection name using SqlClient instead 
> of ODBC, and a few other goodies and tricks.  +1 for  as well, 
> though I didn't write it.  If any of these can get into the official trunk 
> for NAnt or Contrib, all the better.

Those sound like goodies that would be cool to have.
>
> I grant in the near-term you probably need more help in existing tasks than 
> in new ones, and I'm ok with that too.  What're the open issues / tasks?  
> Which would you like me to take on first?

Well, that's the beauty of working on an open source project.  Work on
what you want to work on.  We have items that we wish to work on that
may not reflect what you consider high priorities.  Send in what you
have and we can see where they would fit in.

Like I have said before, we probably need to update our contribution
instructions pretty soon after the repo decision is made.

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Ryan Boggs 
> To: Rob Richardson 
> Cc: "nant-developers@lists.sourceforge.net" 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks
>
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Rob Richardson  wrote:
>> I'll avoid the >athon and just reply at the top.
>>
>> +1 on git and github.  That's more-or-less the lingua franca of 
>> open-source now-a-days.  Being able to accept pull
>> requests would be awesome!  Once it's
>> there, I've got a heap ton of pull requests I'd love to hand off.  To that 
>> end, we should consider a 
>> task in NAnt, and consider moving  to NAntContrib.
> Nice, another plus 1.
> My thinking was to move both NAnt/NAntContrib to a non-CVS repo at the
> same time.  Hopefully, this process will bring the projects closer
> together in scope so we don't have a lag on one side or another.
>>
>> I'd like to see 
>> either get to 2.5.10 or spun off as a separate project.  I had to resort to 
>>  to get 2.5.10
>> working as well.  Many SF patches / posts
>> have upgraded the task throughout the years, but it's never gotten pulled 
>> into the trunk.  If NAnt's cadence is going to be anywhere
>> near previous precedent,  has to move separately to remain relevant.
> My goal is to get it to the latest version, which is 2.5.10 I believe.
> Like I stated in a previous email today, I couldn't get to it during
> 0.91 development because of the amount of effort needed to update NAnt
> to use the new NUnit API.
>>
>> I'd like to also throw in my
>> vote to get  moved from NAntContrib to NAnt.  The  task 
>> hasn't worked for
>> me in 5 years, and thus  has really become an essential part of
>> NAnt.  (Towards the goal

Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Rob Richardson]

Ryan,

Towards #net_4, I'd like to see an official download package for each runtime 
we target.  E.g. one download for .net 1 (the one we have now ... until we kill 
it off), .net 2, .net 4, mono vX, mono vY, etc -- e.g. a download per #define 
tag.  Right now the only way to get a #net_4 runtime version is to download 
source and compile.  That isn't too bad except I have to dig up a VM that still 
has / I don't mind installing CVS onto.  (Referencing the previous git / github 
+1.  :D)

With git / github, check 
out http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=27967861 and https://github.com/skolima/NAnt.
  It'd be very, very nice if it was official. rather than cron-cloned.

What is still needed with the  task?  I'd like to see more built-in 
parameters instead of resulting to  but at the end of the day, it gets 
it done.

I'd love to help in any way I can.  I've got a nice library I'd love to share 
that implements Ant's  and  tasks.  I've also got tasks 
that list projects given a solution, list project content given a project (to 
facilitate deploying a website), runs a sql command given a connection string 
or an app/web.config and (optionally) connection name using SqlClient instead 
of ODBC, and a few other goodies and tricks.  +1 for  as well, though 
I didn't write it.  If any of these can get into the official trunk for NAnt or 
Contrib, all the better.

I grant in the near-term you probably need more help in existing tasks than in 
new ones, and I'm ok with that too.  What're the open issues / tasks?  Which 
would you like me to take on first?

Rob



- Original Message -
From: Ryan Boggs 
To: Rob Richardson 
Cc: "nant-developers@lists.sourceforge.net" 

Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

Hi,

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Rob Richardson  wrote:
> I'll avoid the >athon and just reply at the top.
>
> +1 on git and github.  That's more-or-less the lingua franca of 
> open-source now-a-days.  Being able to accept pull
> requests would be awesome!  Once it's
> there, I've got a heap ton of pull requests I'd love to hand off.  To that 
> end, we should consider a 
> task in NAnt, and consider moving  to NAntContrib.
Nice, another plus 1.
My thinking was to move both NAnt/NAntContrib to a non-CVS repo at the
same time.  Hopefully, this process will bring the projects closer
together in scope so we don't have a lag on one side or another.
>
> I'd like to see 
> either get to 2.5.10 or spun off as a separate project.  I had to resort to 
>  to get 2.5.10
> working as well.  Many SF patches / posts
> have upgraded the task throughout the years, but it's never gotten pulled 
> into the trunk.  If NAnt's cadence is going to be anywhere
> near previous precedent,  has to move separately to remain relevant.
My goal is to get it to the latest version, which is 2.5.10 I believe.
Like I stated in a previous email today, I couldn't get to it during
0.91 development because of the amount of effort needed to update NAnt
to use the new NUnit API.
>
> I'd like to also throw in my
> vote to get  moved from NAntContrib to NAnt.  The  task 
> hasn't worked for
> me in 5 years, and thus  has really become an essential part of
> NAnt.  (Towards the goals of NAnt 2.5, we could shim  to use 
>  for VS 2005+ projects/solutions.)  Tangentially related, if we used 
> the
>  task to build NAnt, we could easily get "Any CPU"
> mode -- a result not currently available in the NAnt release package.
IIRC, the  task needs some more effort before being ported
over.  I know there was work done around VS.NET/msbuild during the
0.91 release cycle but I am not sure how much of that effort related
to the NAntContrib  task.

I was planning on approaching this now anyway.  One of the things I
would like to work on is some kind of sandcastle task for doc building
but it would probably have to rely on that  task.
>
> +1 on moving to .net 2 and
> generics, and a standard #define net_4 release would also be awesome.
I thought we had the net_4.0 preprocessing tag in NAnt already, unless
I am misunderstanding you here.
>
> How can I help?
Love the enthusiasm! :) Speak up and be heard.  I try to read these
messages as much as I can so any input/advice/suggestions you or
anyone else may have, please chime in.  We welcome it. :)

I'm hoping to get a more up-to-date contribution guide going once we
make a decision on the cvs repo situation.  I'll post it once we get
there. :)

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> Rob
>
> --
> The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is

Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi,

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Rob Richardson  wrote:
> I'll avoid the >athon and just reply at the top.
>
> +1 on git and github.  That's more-or-less the lingua franca of 
> open-source now-a-days.  Being able to accept pull
> requests would be awesome!  Once it's
> there, I've got a heap ton of pull requests I'd love to hand off.  To that 
> end, we should consider a 
> task in NAnt, and consider moving  to NAntContrib.
Nice, another plus 1.
My thinking was to move both NAnt/NAntContrib to a non-CVS repo at the
same time.  Hopefully, this process will bring the projects closer
together in scope so we don't have a lag on one side or another.
>
> I'd like to see 
> either get to 2.5.10 or spun off as a separate project.  I had to resort to 
>  to get 2.5.10
> working as well.  Many SF patches / posts
> have upgraded the task throughout the years, but it's never gotten pulled 
> into the trunk.  If NAnt's cadence is going to be anywhere
> near previous precedent,  has to move separately to remain relevant.
My goal is to get it to the latest version, which is 2.5.10 I believe.
 Like I stated in a previous email today, I couldn't get to it during
0.91 development because of the amount of effort needed to update NAnt
to use the new NUnit API.
>
> I'd like to also throw in my
> vote to get  moved from NAntContrib to NAnt.  The  task 
> hasn't worked for
> me in 5 years, and thus  has really become an essential part of
> NAnt.  (Towards the goals of NAnt 2.5, we could shim  to use 
>  for VS 2005+ projects/solutions.)  Tangentially related, if we used 
> the
>  task to build NAnt, we could easily get "Any CPU"
> mode -- a result not currently available in the NAnt release package.
IIRC, the  task needs some more effort before being ported
over.  I know there was work done around VS.NET/msbuild during the
0.91 release cycle but I am not sure how much of that effort related
to the NAntContrib  task.

I was planning on approaching this now anyway.  One of the things I
would like to work on is some kind of sandcastle task for doc building
but it would probably have to rely on that  task.
>
> +1 on moving to .net 2 and
> generics, and a standard #define net_4 release would also be awesome.
I thought we had the net_4.0 preprocessing tag in NAnt already, unless
I am misunderstanding you here.
>
> How can I help?
Love the enthusiasm! :) Speak up and be heard.  I try to read these
messages as much as I can so any input/advice/suggestions you or
anyone else may have, please chime in.  We welcome it. :)

I'm hoping to get a more up-to-date contribution guide going once we
make a decision on the cvs repo situation.  I'll post it once we get
there. :)

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> Rob
>
> --
> The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
> Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn
> about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
> ___
> nant-developers mailing list
> nant-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nant-developers
>

--
The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn 
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Rob Richardson]

I'll avoid the >athon and just reply at the top.
 
+1 on git and github.  That's more-or-less the lingua franca of 
open-source now-a-days.  Being able to accept pull
requests would be awesome!  Once it's
there, I've got a heap ton of pull requests I'd love to hand off.  To that end, 
we should consider a 
task in NAnt, and consider moving  to NAntContrib.
 
I'd like to see 
either get to 2.5.10 or spun off as a separate project.  I had to resort to 
 to get 2.5.10
working as well.  Many SF patches / posts
have upgraded the task throughout the years, but it's never gotten pulled into 
the trunk.  If NAnt's cadence is going to be anywhere
near previous precedent,  has to move separately to remain relevant.
 
I'd like to also throw in my
vote to get  moved from NAntContrib to NAnt.  The  task 
hasn't worked for
me in 5 years, and thus  has really become an essential part of
NAnt.  (Towards the goals of NAnt 2.5, we could shim  to use 
 for VS 2005+ projects/solutions.)  Tangentially related, if we used 
the
 task to build NAnt, we could easily get "Any CPU"
mode -- a result not currently available in the NAnt release package.
 
+1 on moving to .net 2 and
generics, and a standard #define net_4 release would also be awesome.

How can I help?
 
Rob

--
The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn 
about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities. 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi,

Thanks for your comments, see below.

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Leszek Ciesielski  wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Ryan Boggs  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Stefan Bodewig
>>  wrote:
>>> On 2011-10-26, Ryan Boggs wrote:
>>>
 Now that 0.91 final is out the door, I would like to start discussing
 what items to work on in both NAnt/NAntContrib.  Attached is an html
 file of an outline I put together with thoughts about next steps I
 have had for months (I put it in an attachment just in case your email
 viewers don't handle html emails).
>>>
>>> Jumping in at some random point and as somebody who has a strong Ant
>>> background but doesn't really know NAnt as good as I should.
>>>
>>> I can't say much about your choice of SCM.  Why do you feel
>>> Sourceforge's git offering was insufficient - this is an honest question
>>> as I may be thinking about moving XMLUnit to a different SCM myself
>>> (currently using svn at Sourceforge).
>> It just doesn't feel like there is alot of effort on the repo side in
>> terms of code reviews and other tools that sites like github have.
>> That being said, I've been toying with the idea about using of setting
>> up a git repo on SF to use as a mirror of source.  I am also thinking
>> about keeping the CVS repo at SF live but readonly for historic
>> reasons.
>>
>> One thing I noticed from experience I have with github.com is that it
>> is much easier to share/review code from others than it currently is
>> on SF.
>
> I'm giving a +1 to choosing git and github, in a large part because
> those two are popular and well known. And github's pull management is
> an awesome feature.
:) yup, I concur.
>
>>>
>>> We'll be polling log4net's users about platform support soon.  I also
>>> feel you are safe to require 2.0 at runtime as long as you keep 1.x as
>>> targets.
>> I hope so.
>
> Agree here as well. Although this might (in future) mean quite a large
> rewrite of the NAnt API to make use of the generics.
Eh, it would but I am thinking that the first step of this part is
removing all of the preprocessing statements that separate between
.net 1.0 and .net 2.0. Converting the existing code to use features
from .net/mono 2.0 >= would probably only be worked on if the gains
were significant enough.
>
>>>
>>> When I worked on the log4net release I cursed NAnt's lack of a 
>>> so a big +1 for this.  I also miss .  Badly.
>> I should add  too, eh?
>>>
>>> Have you seen the 1.2.11 release of log4net of about two weeks ago? ;-)
>> I have not.  I'll have to check that out.
>>
>> If activity has restarted for log4net like you say, I should take that
>> item off my list I just sent out.  It was something I have had in mind
>> for months prior when log4net activity seemed non-existent.
>>
>> It took me awhile to get NAnt to use log4net 1.2.10 because of
>> sharpcvslib's dependency on log4net 1.2.9.  Since I was recently
>> granted commit access to that project, I could see if I could upgrade
>> the dependency in both projects.
>
> Updating  task will be tricky, especially if you want to keep
> it working on Mono as well. Any NAnt deployment that I'm aware of has
> resorted to using  instead, because of compatibility problems
> between nunit dlls NAnt bundled and those that the project itself
> used.
Yeah, I am aware of this as I looked into this during 0.91
development.  The NUnit API changed drastically between the current
version NAnt is using today (2.2 I believe) and the latest release
(2.10). Thus, this task was pushed out to avoid further delays of 0.91
final.  From what I gathered from NUnit's docs, 2.5.10 should work on
both mono and .net now so it shouldn't be a problem from that end
(hopefully).
>
> >From the low priority list:
> I'm quite fond of the NAnt website layout :-) And migrating to another
> license requires written permission from every past contributor - this
> would be a hard task to perform. Also, it might not provide any gain
> to end users - development tools don't usually need a permissive
> license, as they are not linked into the end product.
The reasons you just specified are the reasons why they are considered
low priority.  Yeah, the site's current layout still works but it
could use a face lift to bring it to this decade.  Again, low
priority.

As for the license change, it would be a considerable undertaking and
the end payout may not be worth it, on top of the fact that there are
higher priorities I would like to address first before sizing up this
task.  I am in no rush to pursue this at this time but I wanted to
keep it up there for future review.

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> Regards,
>
> Leszek 'skolima' Ciesielski
>
> --
> The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
> Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn

Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Leszek Ciesielski]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Ryan Boggs  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Stefan Bodewig
>  wrote:
>> On 2011-10-26, Ryan Boggs wrote:
>>
>>> Now that 0.91 final is out the door, I would like to start discussing
>>> what items to work on in both NAnt/NAntContrib.  Attached is an html
>>> file of an outline I put together with thoughts about next steps I
>>> have had for months (I put it in an attachment just in case your email
>>> viewers don't handle html emails).
>>
>> Jumping in at some random point and as somebody who has a strong Ant
>> background but doesn't really know NAnt as good as I should.
>>
>> I can't say much about your choice of SCM.  Why do you feel
>> Sourceforge's git offering was insufficient - this is an honest question
>> as I may be thinking about moving XMLUnit to a different SCM myself
>> (currently using svn at Sourceforge).
> It just doesn't feel like there is alot of effort on the repo side in
> terms of code reviews and other tools that sites like github have.
> That being said, I've been toying with the idea about using of setting
> up a git repo on SF to use as a mirror of source.  I am also thinking
> about keeping the CVS repo at SF live but readonly for historic
> reasons.
>
> One thing I noticed from experience I have with github.com is that it
> is much easier to share/review code from others than it currently is
> on SF.

I'm giving a +1 to choosing git and github, in a large part because
those two are popular and well known. And github's pull management is
an awesome feature.

>>
>> We'll be polling log4net's users about platform support soon.  I also
>> feel you are safe to require 2.0 at runtime as long as you keep 1.x as
>> targets.
> I hope so.

Agree here as well. Although this might (in future) mean quite a large
rewrite of the NAnt API to make use of the generics.

>>
>> When I worked on the log4net release I cursed NAnt's lack of a 
>> so a big +1 for this.  I also miss .  Badly.
> I should add  too, eh?
>>
>> Have you seen the 1.2.11 release of log4net of about two weeks ago? ;-)
> I have not.  I'll have to check that out.
>
> If activity has restarted for log4net like you say, I should take that
> item off my list I just sent out.  It was something I have had in mind
> for months prior when log4net activity seemed non-existent.
>
> It took me awhile to get NAnt to use log4net 1.2.10 because of
> sharpcvslib's dependency on log4net 1.2.9.  Since I was recently
> granted commit access to that project, I could see if I could upgrade
> the dependency in both projects.

Updating  task will be tricky, especially if you want to keep
it working on Mono as well. Any NAnt deployment that I'm aware of has
resorted to using  instead, because of compatibility problems
between nunit dlls NAnt bundled and those that the project itself
used.

>From the low priority list:
I'm quite fond of the NAnt website layout :-) And migrating to another
license requires written permission from every past contributor - this
would be a hard task to perform. Also, it might not provide any gain
to end users - development tools don't usually need a permissive
license, as they are not linked into the end product.

Regards,

Leszek 'skolima' Ciesielski

--
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demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi,

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Stefan Bodewig
 wrote:
> On 2011-10-26, Ryan Boggs wrote:
>
>> Now that 0.91 final is out the door, I would like to start discussing
>> what items to work on in both NAnt/NAntContrib.  Attached is an html
>> file of an outline I put together with thoughts about next steps I
>> have had for months (I put it in an attachment just in case your email
>> viewers don't handle html emails).
>
> Jumping in at some random point and as somebody who has a strong Ant
> background but doesn't really know NAnt as good as I should.
>
> I can't say much about your choice of SCM.  Why do you feel
> Sourceforge's git offering was insufficient - this is an honest question
> as I may be thinking about moving XMLUnit to a different SCM myself
> (currently using svn at Sourceforge).
It just doesn't feel like there is alot of effort on the repo side in
terms of code reviews and other tools that sites like github have.
That being said, I've been toying with the idea about using of setting
up a git repo on SF to use as a mirror of source.  I am also thinking
about keeping the CVS repo at SF live but readonly for historic
reasons.

One thing I noticed from experience I have with github.com is that it
is much easier to share/review code from others than it currently is
on SF.
>
> We'll be polling log4net's users about platform support soon.  I also
> feel you are safe to require 2.0 at runtime as long as you keep 1.x as
> targets.
I hope so.
>
> When I worked on the log4net release I cursed NAnt's lack of a 
> so a big +1 for this.  I also miss .  Badly.
I should add  too, eh?
>
> Have you seen the 1.2.11 release of log4net of about two weeks ago? ;-)
I have not.  I'll have to check that out.

If activity has restarted for log4net like you say, I should take that
item off my list I just sent out.  It was something I have had in mind
for months prior when log4net activity seemed non-existent.

It took me awhile to get NAnt to use log4net 1.2.10 because of
sharpcvslib's dependency on log4net 1.2.9.  Since I was recently
granted commit access to that project, I could see if I could upgrade
the dependency in both projects.

Thanks,
Ryan
>
> Stefan
>
> --
> The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
> Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn
> about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/cisco-dev2dev
> ___
> nant-developers mailing list
> nant-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nant-developers
>

--
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demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Martin Aliger]

I'd like to see some mechanism how to control or filter-out what output is
logged from tasks. There are several verbosity levels etc, but there are
cases when nothing helps.

Example: Recently I came around  where I executed tool which wrote
bunch of messages to stderr. Nant copy all stderr messages to its logger and
there is no mechanism how to control this. In this particular case, one
message it outputs is expected and not wanted to be logged.

But its not just an  issue, should cover all tasks.


Logging is not much of issue when running from console, one just ignores
some text. But its quite of an issue, when be part of nightly builds (or
other Continuous Integration setups). Not only the logs are getting bigger
(grows several MB per build in mine case) but it can even trigger other
problems, since the nant output is further processed (usually through xml
logging).


Perhaps something like filterchains  and  tasks have? Or even
something pretty basic can help (e.g. setting verbosity level for each task
individually).

Regards,
Martin Aliger



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Re: [nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Stefan Bodewig]

On 2011-10-26, Ryan Boggs wrote:

> Now that 0.91 final is out the door, I would like to start discussing
> what items to work on in both NAnt/NAntContrib.  Attached is an html
> file of an outline I put together with thoughts about next steps I
> have had for months (I put it in an attachment just in case your email
> viewers don't handle html emails).

Jumping in at some random point and as somebody who has a strong Ant
background but doesn't really know NAnt as good as I should.

I can't say much about your choice of SCM.  Why do you feel
Sourceforge's git offering was insufficient - this is an honest question
as I may be thinking about moving XMLUnit to a different SCM myself
(currently using svn at Sourceforge).

We'll be polling log4net's users about platform support soon.  I also
feel you are safe to require 2.0 at runtime as long as you keep 1.x as
targets.

When I worked on the log4net release I cursed NAnt's lack of a 
so a big +1 for this.  I also miss .  Badly.

Have you seen the 1.2.11 release of log4net of about two weeks ago? ;-)

Stefan

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[nant-dev] Next NAnt/NAntContrib TODO Tasks

[Ryan Boggs]

Hi guys,

Now that 0.91 final is out the door, I would like to start discussing
what items to work on in both NAnt/NAntContrib.  Attached is an html
file of an outline I put together with thoughts about next steps I
have had for months (I put it in an attachment just in case your email
viewers don't handle html emails).  I tried to include items that have
been discussed in past emails.  All of these items affect both
NAnt/NAntContrib unless specified otherwise.

One of the things that has been on my mind for months is moving NAnt
off of cvs.  When I polled that decision some time ago, the general
consensus was that any move away from cvs would be a step up.  My
personal feeling is to move from cvs to git or hg to because it is
more easy for me to work with than cvs.  The first item in my list
compares the two more popular repo sites out there.  I am partial to
github.com because I have been using it alot lately for other things
(working on the Boo language project for example) but I would like to
hear other thoughts.  I have been experimenting with converting cvs to
git with a good degree of success (all history, tags, and branches
come through) but I am sure further tweeking will be necessary.

A side note, when 0.91 final was released, I wasn't sure what the next
version of NAnt we would be targeting so I just set it to 0.92.  This
can be discussed further if need be.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback.

Thanks,
Ryan





  High Priority (items that should be addressed first)
  
Options for moving away from CVS

  Sourceforge's repository options seem limited, including types and abilities.  I think it would be best to move the source to a new place better suited for code maintenance, storage, and reviewing.
  
No plans on moving any other services at this time.
  
  Two places that seem most appropriate
  
Moving the repo to github.com

  Primary dvcs is Git
  Used by other projects that use/contributed to NAnt
  
Mono
Boo
Monobjc
  
  Better integrated issue tracking/code review features


  Subversion and mercurial support for the same git repository
  
https://github.com/blog/966-improved-subversion-client-support
http://hg-git.github.com/
  
  Supports an array of features that can be enabled by project


  
Email services
Twitter integration
TeamCity integration
Etc
  

Moving the repo to bitbucket.org

  Available types are Mercurial and Git

  
  

  Owned by atlassian
  Integrated issue tracking features
  Subversion support for mercurial repository
  
Per bitbucket.org docs, feature is available but not supported
  
  Supports an array of features that can be enabled by project


  
Email service
Twitter integration
Etc
  

Recommendation: github.com
  

Drop .Net/Mono 1.* runtime support

  target support will remain

  
  Medium (normal) Priority
  
Move  and  tasks from NAntContrib to NAnt
Rework/enhance subversion tasks in NAntContrib
Add Git and Mecurial source control tasks to NAntContrib
Update  task to use NUnit 2.5.10 (or whatever is latest)

  NUnit 2.5 should now work on both mono & .NET

Look into NMake replacement

  NMake is old and does not seem to be active anymore
  Possible replacement could be a batch or PowerShell script

Look into NDoc replacement

  NDoc has not been maintained in years and has issues with .net 4.0 (workaround for NAnt is currently in place)
  NDoc3, Sandcastle, and monodic could be viable options

Add a sandcastle task to NAntContrib

  Would probably require work on NAntContrib's  task

Add equivalent to Ant's  type
Add simplified syntax to  task to move directories. Like Ant's  task.
Evaluate backend log solutions (unless activity in the log4net project resumes soon)
  
  Low Priority (Nice to haves)
  
Website updates

  It would be nice to revamp the website layout with an updated look and feel

Logo update

  Like the website, the logo could use a face lift as well.

Look into building NAnt plugin for

  Monodevelop
  VS.NET (through Nuget?)

Move to Apache or BSD type license

  This was copied from NAnt's original release plan
  Not sure of feasibility

  



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The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
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Take a