Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Damian Gatabria wrote: On Thursday 03 April 2003 18:36, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sat, 2003-04-12 at 06:12, Lanman wrote: It would suck-start a Harley, from 2 miles away, on a windy day, in snow this deep! Are we done now?? Can we kill this thread and get back to the other cool stuff? Lanman Uh - what cool stuff? Linux R00RZ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- How about this for cool stuff. Invite some friends over and convince them to start using the Mandrake gnu/linux distro. And if that is not cool enough. Go live on the south pole =) lol. -- Marc Koenders [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- -- I don't have an eating problem. I eat. I get fat. I buy new clothes. No problem. -- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Friday 04 April 2003 08:54 am, J. Kelley Jernigan wrote: It isn't about money for me. So for my foray in Linux has cost me more than WinXP would have. I've gone to Linux because I don't like the new M$ licensing scheme or the direction M$ is going. I also tend to monkey with the hardware on my PC so it wouldn't be long before XP and I would have had a serious argument. As far as I'm concurened it's none of Bill Gates business what hardware and software I run on my machine, especially since I never use pirated software. I second that! I have lost more time trying to get Linux to work on my laptop, time I could have devoted to clients doing work and getting paid for it! I could have fired up Dreamweaver and produced the sites I needed to get done or use MS Office to work on a few proposals, BUT I have discovered later on that while Dreamweaver appears to speed up development initially that is quickly lost when a client wants something changed or something outside of the scope of what Dreamweaver can do. I run an ISP and my main work consits of: maintaining servers, keeping email flowing, responding to my customers, building web applications and working on improving services. Often I will have several programs going at once, connected to 10 different servers - with XP I would blue screen at least once or twice a day.mind you that was an improvement, but when a clients web site is down time matters. Truthfully I still have XP on this Laptop, I boot into it when I want to burn a music CD or want to use my Intel web cam - I can't get either to work well in Linux yet. On the other side of the coin I run KDE at 1600x1200 res and under XP that just hurt my eyes. So, in answer to your question - I want to do what *I* want to do on *MY* machine and do it the way *I* want to do it. Linux allows me to tweak the heck out of my machine, KDE is nice to look at and Quanta Plus has to be one of the best PHP editors out there. -Scott Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Thursday 03 April 2003 23:00, Mark Weaver wrote: The first few times she did that herself I swear I saw her straighten in her chair with great pride and smile because SHE had power of the computer and not the other way around. Mine ask their M$ using friends: Don't you have xkill installed?? Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
It would suck-start a Harley, from 2 miles away, on a windy day, in snow this deep! Are we done now?? Can we kill this thread and get back to the other cool stuff? Lanman On Thu, 2003-04-03 at 15:55, Mark Weaver wrote: Ronald J. Hall wrote: On Sunday 30 March 2003 04:31 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Micro$oft sux. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;) --LX Hehehehehehe, you wouldn't be you if you could have resisted that Lyvim! and I'll continue this very popular theme: Micro$oft sux vacuum hard. :-) all right...here's my two cents. M$ sucks so bad it could suck-start a Harley! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Mark; That's embarrassing! A 6 year old knows that? Geesh! I didn't! Didn't know you were a grandfather either, Mark! Must be getting pretty old there, huh? LOL! Thanks for the tip about top! Or rather, thank your grand-daughter! Obviously the next generation of Guru's is getting started early at your place! Lanman P.S., Maybe you can get her to write some HOWTO's for us? I still don't have a grip on grep. Grin! Grin! On Thu, 2003-04-03 at 16:00, Mark Weaver wrote: Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 That is a revenge to Microsoft saying Lie-nucks to Linux ?. :). Thanks for your opinions. I hope Linux will be better in the future. So, my neighbour don't say Linux is just for programmers/professionals not for end-users !. he apparently hasn't tried it yet... my 6 year old grand daughter finds it easier to use then any windows version she's seen. Me being a programmer she's seen a few. In fact, because the menu system us actually arranged in a manner that is both logical and easy to navigate she can find her favorite games, and word processors with out having to ask for help. AND she knows what a terminal is and some of the things that can be done with it... i.e. she's got a program that isn't responding...no worries. open a terminal and type t-o-p and the one with the biggest number that looks like 97%, type k and then the number all the way at the right on the bad line, then hit enter twice and the frozen program goes away. The first few times she did that herself I swear I saw her straighten in her chair with great pride and smile because SHE had power of the computer and not the other way around. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sat, 2003-04-12 at 06:12, Lanman wrote: It would suck-start a Harley, from 2 miles away, on a windy day, in snow this deep! Are we done now?? Can we kill this thread and get back to the other cool stuff? Lanman Uh - what cool stuff? -- Fri Apr 4 07:35:01 EST 2003 07:35:01 up 13 days, 19:22, 3 users, load average: 0.31, 0.23, 0.14 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know who have gone to a better world, I am moved to lead a different life. -- Mark Twain, Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Thursday 03 April 2003 18:36, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Sat, 2003-04-12 at 06:12, Lanman wrote: It would suck-start a Harley, from 2 miles away, on a windy day, in snow this deep! Are we done now?? Can we kill this thread and get back to the other cool stuff? Lanman Uh - what cool stuff? Linux R00RZ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
SHARKS WILL NOT ATTACK LAWYERS: Professional Courtesy On Monday 31 March 2003 01:20 am, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Monday 31 March 2003 05:19, Lanman wrote: And this is a bad idea? Personally, I'm not all that fond of sharks! Besides, we could toss in the laywers while we were at it, and do the world a favor! LOL! Hey Bill! You get to jump in first, you lucky guy! Lanman hey watch it! That's polution! This way you'll have Greenpeace activists crawling all over you to protect those poor fish. EeSave our Sharks! ...? Good hunting, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 11:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ Although the question is addressed to people who live in those places - I don't live in North America or Europe and probably I never will - I would like to say that I use Linux for a couple of reasons already mentioned in this thread. Stability, security, reliability, performance, dislike of alien monopoly and, of course, freedom of choice are also the main reasons that led me to the Open Source world. With Linux, the hardware I worked so hard to purchase is safe and more productive. And I can laugh at the viruses I open in Kmail. Some time ago I read that one of the richest European countries was starting to replace M$ Windows in its Parliament for Linux. Then I began to think that apparently the adoption of Open Source software is growing much more in the developed countries than in the under- or semi-developed ones, which is a kind of paradox. Fortunately here the debate about Open Source software is going to be at stake again. The new administration is favourable to it. Needless to say that the amount of money spent on software, which is considerable if we think in terms of governmental institutions, can be spent on programs to eradicate social problems. JM -- http://www.cyberhades.blogger.com.br Are we speachin d'anglas landadge or are you sprakin sea Djoytsch? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Actually, the cost of development tools is not much of an issue. When you are paying a programmer $50-100K/yr, another $1100 or so for MS Visual Dev Stuido isn't that big of deal. -Original Message- From: Eko Budiharto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:09:35 +0700 Subject: Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ? Well, for personal use, it is partial money issue. But for in the corporate environment, it is a big issue, because developing with Microsoft very expensive. Microsoft charges per head for development softwares. With Linux, you can develop for free with Java, Perl, etc. On Sunday 30 March 2003 01:47 pm, Marc Oestreicher wrote: I guess it is partially about money for me. A few years ago when I knew almost nothing about computers I was more or less forced to buy a computer with windoze 98 installed, to the best of my knowledge that was the only thing available on any name brand computer and I sure did not know enough at the time to build my own at that time. I latter found out about the way that microsoft strong arms computer manufactures into building and selling only machines with windoze products installed. I also found out a hell of a lot of other things about how microsoft does business and none were to my liking. Due to the fact that my first machine came with windoze 98 installed I have a windoze 98 disk that I could use on any of the machines that I own now. It would be a bit unstable, need to waste resources on virus protection and have a number of security holes ECT but it would be capable of doing anything that I wanted to do. However I would much rather spend a few dollars on a operating system done by a honest decent company than continue to use stuff done by a dishonest corrupt monolopy. I was involved in cooperate America long enough to understand microsoft style business practices and I prefer not to support that sort of company in any way shape or form!!! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 03:54, Jim Dawson wrote: Actually, the cost of development tools is not much of an issue. When you are paying a programmer $50-100K/yr, another $1100 or so for MS Visual Dev Stuido isn't that big of deal. That's $1100 for my kids to make use of, or to further put toward a hunk of land mate. -- Wed Apr 2 06:45:00 EST 2003 06:45:00 up 11 days, 18:32, 3 users, load average: 0.03, 0.06, 0.08 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** The use of anthropomorphic terminology when dealing with computing systems is a symptom of professional immaturity. -- Edsger Dijkstra Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Heck last time I checked students didn't get paid 50-100 k a year. Steven On Tuesday 01 April 2003 02:46 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Wed, 2003-04-02 at 03:54, Jim Dawson wrote: Actually, the cost of development tools is not much of an issue. When you are paying a programmer $50-100K/yr, another $1100 or so for MS Visual Dev Stuido isn't that big of deal. That's $1100 for my kids to make use of, or to further put toward a hunk of land mate. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+igT56UWsagwteioRAntJAJ9mhElYk1gpHCGeTv0LkhF5dktxXgCbBVD+ SApPJki2BHLr7zIAmxS9Q6A= =4tQe -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
This is what I was hoping for ... unfortunately it ain't happening in my case yet, but I can tell you in most cases I had to reboot my Win2k laptop just because application client which I had to run daily is causing memory leak and in 2-3 weeks laptop was getting too sluggish. Martin --- H.J.Bathoorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 31 March 2003 04:39, m wrote: Hope I didn't upset anybody, just like to hear your opinion. Martin Here's an extra nice one for the laptop: Once it's configured well you never have to switch the notebook off. I've got 9.0 running on a fuyitsu lifebook with 8 months uptime. I just close the lid and when I need it I just open it and carry on where I left off. You can actually hear the M$-laptop users, jaws hit the table when I do that in a meeting...Gawd, that's fast!! Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Hi Jason, first off, thank you for your opinions and see my answers inline ... --- Jason Greenwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, m wrote: It's not too encouraging ... are you saying I should give up? Perhaps. Hmmm, I don't like to give up easy. Why don't you rather suggest how to fix some of the things ... say make fonts in Mozilla look like in Windows. Things in Linux look/act differently to Windows, if you prefer Windows, stay with it. You'll never emulate Windows exactly, thank God. I'm not even trying do so, there are some things I like right of the bat more in Linux but still thre is something I'm missing to be efficient and comfortable doing my job. Don't take me wrong I agree with most of your ideas but issue is as I see it a lot of third party vendors are so MS oriented that you can't have their stuff for Linux at all. What do you do if you need them? Even somebody here mentioned once in a month he has to reload his Windows to update check book or something why is that? See comments below: As a newbie (I'll consider myself newbie till I'm able to compile my own kernel and that won't happen any time soon, as PC is just a tool for me and I don't have time for it) I've decided to try Linux as Then many of us are newbies too, if that's the definition. hearing all that how great it is made me curious. Good that you've heard good things, I love Linux myself, would never go back to Winblows. So far it didn't give me anything I couldn't do with Windows, That's not the point. If you think that the only important thing to do is re-create the Windows environment in Linux, forget it. stability is out of question as my laptop is freezing more often with Linux then Win2k, things I like Then you have a bung install, simple as that. Linux does not crash...repeat after me, does not crash, I have been using it for 2 years, so I know (others far longer, and they agree with me). The only way it would is if you were trying some exotic kernel or beta software or similar. :), I can't argue with this ...bung install ... I don't feel I did something wrong during the install as there was not much I could've done. Linux can freeze or lock up, I've experienced it myself and I've heard others say that too. Of course it has always been some apm related stuff. I don't think I'm doing anything exotic :). very much e.g. suspend or hot swapping of my cdrom with floppy ain't working to the same extend as with Windows (sometimes after wakeing it up, display wouldn't get in sync at all etc etc), fonts in say Mozilla sucks comparing what it is in Windows. Sounds like an XFree/Video card problem to me. Pop in Knoppix and try the same thing, it may configure your video better than Mandrake does, it has on some of my boxes. There is still a lot of software I need in my day to day business not available for Linux too, Like? Be specific so we can make recommendations. Meeting Maker, Adobe Frame Viewer, Spirnet Ixia client, VPN client, OTP, IPTV client, Visio. so the only bright side is I can do my expect/tcl script on my PC Hey!! At least you found a silver lining!! instead of login to some of the corporate Sun servers and I LOVE xterm ... getting help from Linux gurus is the same hassle as getting help for MS issues. Um, no, I disagree. Sorry, I know everybody is trying to do best they can but nobody is gonna die for you if you're in trouble, right ... either way most of the time you're on your own. Martin When I buy a PC it comes with Windows and I dont have to pay anything extra, right? Yes you do, it's bundled in with the price (ie. Windows Tax). Buy a whitebox and save between $100-$600 depending on the bundle. So ... what's the point to do format c: and go for Linux? If you still don't know all of the benefits, I'll post them again at the bottom of this email. Hope I didn't upset anybody, just like to hear your opinion. Ok, you got it. Cheers Jason PS, My PERSONAL reasons for using Linux/OSS: Freedom - the freedom to use, modify and in general, play with my software with a level of transparency simply not available with Windows. Modifiable - Being able to modify most things on my computer through simple, text editable text files, without the worry/hassle of a registry of any kind. Value/Cost for performance - in my experience, Linux and OSS offer a price for performance return that Windows doesn't even come close to. Community - I like being part of a community of my choice, rather than being a slave to a company in Redmond that uses my net's back channel to report my usage behaviors and buying decisions - all for my own supposed benefit. Helping others - I can help others by introducing them to Linux for almost no cost without feeling like I am
Win2k -LinuxLapTop was Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Monday 31 March 2003 18:36, m wrote: This is what I was hoping for ... unfortunately it ain't happening in my case yet, but I can tell you in most cases I had to reboot my Win2k laptop just because application client which I had to run daily is causing memory leak and in 2-3 weeks laptop was getting too sluggish. Martin Ok, so let's take your your's by the horns and give win2k something to worry about. First we'll need to know what Mdk version you installed. I'm betting 9.0 cause you're mentionning lousy fonts in Mozilla. Then what laptop i.e. make, cpu amount of RAM. And what exactly did you mean by hot swapping of my cdrom with floppy ain't working to the same extend as with Windows (sometimes after wakeing it up, display wouldn't get in sync at all etc etc), they're pcmcia or USB devices or what? Of course mileage will vary on different hardware but as you didn't mention an internal modem not working, your chances are pretty high to come out on top. Good hunting, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 21:20, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Monday 31 March 2003 12:50, Lanman wrote: You, Sir,...Are a mean, heartless and vindictive man! And don't think for one minute that I don't respect you for it! I'll have to remember that one! Lanman Thank you very much for these kind words;o) Actually I'm just lucky Stephen hasn't chipped in yethe makes me look like Florence Nightingdale on a bad night. Good luck, HarM Hey! I resemble that remark! (g) -- Tue Apr 1 05:25:00 EST 2003 05:25:00 up 10 days, 17:12, 3 users, load average: 0.93, 0.40, 0.40 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** Equality is not when a female Einstein gets promoted to assistant professor; equality is when a female schlemiel moves ahead as fast as a male schlemiel. -- Ewald Nyquist Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 21:26, Lanman wrote: HM, You're Right! Where is he? What time is it in the land of the eternal kangaroo? Could it be that Stephen is down for his afternoon nap? Probably in the kitchen waiting for the coffee to finish brewing! Sigh! OH well, Guess we'll start calling you Florence, Harm.!! LOL! L It's 5:25 a.m. - been awake for nearly an hour chasing out a brandie-new trojan/macro - conversing with the nice folks at Pandasoft and F-Prot... (Got to protect my M$ running clients, and interacting with the antivirus people only gets me more free products!) -- Tue Apr 1 05:25:00 EST 2003 05:25:00 up 10 days, 17:12, 3 users, load average: 0.93, 0.40, 0.40 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** Equality is not when a female Einstein gets promoted to assistant professor; equality is when a female schlemiel moves ahead as fast as a male schlemiel. -- Ewald Nyquist Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 21:43, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: On Monday 31 March 2003 13:26, Lanman wrote: HM, You're Right! Where is he? What time is it in the land of the eternal kangaroo? Tomorrow.we're yesterday's news overthere. Could it be that Stephen is down for his afternoon nap? Probably in the kitchen waiting for the coffee to finish brewing! Nah, he's out shooting runaway Red Hat installs. He was the one that brought em in, in the first place. It's like the rabbit plague replayed if he isn't careful;o) Sigh! OH well, Guess we'll start calling you Florence, Harm.!! LOL! Don't you dare! good luck, HarM FYI - our area (Wollongong and the Illawarra) are mostly Mandrakians... -- Tue Apr 1 05:25:00 EST 2003 05:25:00 up 10 days, 17:12, 3 users, load average: 0.93, 0.40, 0.40 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** Equality is not when a female Einstein gets promoted to assistant professor; equality is when a female schlemiel moves ahead as fast as a male schlemiel. -- Ewald Nyquist Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Win2k -LinuxLapTop was Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
It's IBM T20 P3 700MHz, 256M RAM, 12G HD, Mandrake9.0. What I meant by 'hot swap' is replacing cdrom by floppy drive in T20 bay on the fly (there is just one bay so you can have either cdrom or floppy drive in). I found on www.linux-laptom.net this ain't working but you can first suspend it, change drives and wake it up. It works but ... sometime after wake up LCD is out of sync so I switch to other console (ctrl+alt+f1) and even there I see screen devided to 3 section vertically and has prompt 3 times. When I try to switch back to KDE, I either find it ok or still out of sync. The same happens when I suspend it by closing LCD few times during a day if I have to go somewhere. Martin --- H.J.Bathoorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 31 March 2003 18:36, m wrote: This is what I was hoping for ... unfortunately it ain't happening in my case yet, but I can tell you in most cases I had to reboot my Win2k laptop just because application client which I had to run daily is causing memory leak and in 2-3 weeks laptop was getting too sluggish. Martin Ok, so let's take your your's by the horns and give win2k something to worry about. First we'll need to know what Mdk version you installed. I'm betting 9.0 cause you're mentionning lousy fonts in Mozilla. Then what laptop i.e. make, cpu amount of RAM. And what exactly did you mean by hot swapping of my cdrom with floppy ain't working to the same extend as with Windows (sometimes after wakeing it up, display wouldn't get in sync at all etc etc), they're pcmcia or USB devices or what? Of course mileage will vary on different hardware but as you didn't mention an internal modem not working, your chances are pretty high to come out on top. Good hunting, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Win2k -LinuxLapTop was Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Monday 31 March 2003 22:33, m wrote: It's IBM T20 P3 700MHz, 256M RAM, 12G HD, Mandrake9.0. What I meant by 'hot swap' is replacing cdrom by floppy drive in T20 bay on the fly (there is just one bay so you can have either cdrom or floppy drive in). I found on www.linux-laptom.net this ain't working but you can first suspend it, change drives and wake it up. It works but ... sometime after wake up LCD is out of sync so I switch to other console (ctrl+alt+f1) and even there I see screen devided to 3 section vertically and has prompt 3 times. When I try to switch back to KDE, I either find it ok or still out of sync. The same happens when I suspend it by closing LCD few times during a day if I have to go somewhere. Martin Hmm, with T20 I've no experience at all so I'm way out of my league there. I do know that IBM hosts a mailinglist for Thinkpads and linux so maybe you should check that out too. Unfortunately I don't have the URL but surely someone else here knows it..Gerard?? But then this sounds more like a memory/video setting problem, doesn't it? What graphic card does it have? Does the same happen using more lightweight windowmanagers like xfce or icewm? Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+hwMNJNWEiI6aGI4RAi4jAJ9/k3JiSHTkxSU6mOgAH0Wfc1WICgCeM1q/ 96KVzkO01TRZm43oVewOhY4= =GXxk -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 09:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+hwMNJNWEiI6aGI4RAi4jAJ9/k3JiSHTkxSU6mOgAH0Wfc1WICgCeM1q/ 96KVzkO01TRZm43oVewOhY4= =GXxk -END PGP SIGNATURE- it is not about money for me, I can and do own M$ products as required for work, but it is about choice, and being able to make the choice, and choosing what works best. -- Linux counter number 167806 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. Nope...well, some of it is...but the main thing is that Linux is Open Source and freedom that it brings. Another thing of course is stability and security. /Anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Zariyan Zephyr wrote: | As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and | North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe | and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application | softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. | | ZZ it is about security and independency. why should i be dependent on what microsoft thinks is best for me? if you don't like something in your system, you can change it.. the system is really flexible and you are not breaking laws when you are discovering how does it work. and the community is really great. cheers, - -- joe ps: to tell you the truth i would rather spend my money on something else -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+h2jz1Z/5e38F6fERAl40AJ4t+v/YDOZ0wJAipHwm+cTv2DBRtgCfUmoN kWStkT47q3sCjRzFnd5yA9E= =Bke/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 09:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+hwMNJNWEiI6aGI4RAi4jAJ9/k3JiSHTkxSU6mOgAH0Wfc1WICgCeM1q/ 96KVzkO01TRZm43oVewOhY4= =GXxk -END PGP SIGNATURE- And having control of your own computer, not some con man in Washington state. -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
definately about money.. though that certainly doesn't hurt.. Its about: 1. freedom of choice.. The right to steer your own destiny as it were. 2. Security.. The list of major flaws in windows past and present is so long that it would be easier to tell you what isn't broken in some way.. since linux is open source, anyone that wants to, can go and find/fix bugs... with windows you have to wait for M$ to get off their butts and fix it.. and sometimes that takes to long.. the damage is done before they shut the gate. 3. knowledge.. No-one really knows just what windows does behind the scenes.. it is a closed source compiled bunch of code.. we can make guess's, we can reverse engineer some stuff. but there is vast amounts of stuff we just don't know. 4. Competition, right now, with the exception of Macs, microsoft has no competition on the desktop... thats never a good thing. 5. Stability and productivity.. our windows server needs to be restarted once every week or two.. nearly all our linux box's have uptimes over 50 days and most are closer to 100, only kernel updates really cause a reboot. 6. more for less.. I have gotten a huge amount of server work done on ridiculously underpowered machines.. machines that win2000 server would not even load on, let alone run services with any degree of usefulness. I could go on.. but thats enough for most people to swap... it is easy to use, just takes some getting used to.. as did windows when you first tried it. rgds Franki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zariyan Zephyr Sent: Sunday, 30 March 2003 10:46 PM To: Mandrake Newbie Subject: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ? -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE+hwMNJNWEiI6aGI4RAi4jAJ9/k3JiSHTkxSU6mOgAH0Wfc1WICgCeM1q/ 96KVzkO01TRZm43oVewOhY4= =GXxk -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 10:45, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ Oh, yeah, it is about money. Each of the several reboots that you need to do using Winblows makes you waste your time, and time is money. Every document that you are working with and that you have to retype (partially o totally) makes you waste your time (in this particular case you also have to invest in stuffs like mylanta, maalox, peptobismol, etc). Every business presentation where you have to reboot can make you loose clients (and money). Every disaster recovery will drive you nut (more expenses in psychoanalysis). After a few months working with Linux I have no doubt that it is a money saver. In addition, I also back all the other points already posted in the list. Saludos -- __ / \\ @ __ __@ Adolfo Bello [EMAIL PROTECTED] / // // /\ / \\ // \ // Bello Ingenieria S.A, ICQ: 65910258 / \\ // / \\ / // // / //celular: +58 416 609-6213 /___// // / _/ \__\\ //__/ // fax: +58 212 952-6797 www.bisapi.com //pager : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 09:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ I converted last year to Linux (at home). I did it for choice and because I wanted to find and support an alternative to Microsoft (the possiblity of Paladium and the lockdown on XP scared the heck out of me). I have not looked back. I have found replacement software that was as good if not better for everything I was doing on Microsoft and Linux is significantly more stable. Case in point - I went to use my wifes PC (Win98) this afternoon (for the first time in months) and I had to reboot 3 times before I could finish what I was doing. I haven't had to rebooted my Linux box in about 4 months now and I'm not sure I had to reboot when I did. David -- ( ) ( ) ( 0 0 ) ---( )--- o Linux is not The Answer. Yes is the answer. Linux is The Question Registered Linux user #300497 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Nope, it's not about money. I could drone on about all of the GREAT things about Linux and OSS (Open Source Software) in general but that has been covered by the list already. All I can say is try it, I mean really try it. Try it for 6 months. Try to NOT use any MS products for that 6 months. I am certain that the benefits will be self explanatory after that time. Regards, Jason PS, My PERSONAL reasons for using Linux/OSS: Freedom - the freedom to use, modify and in general, play with my software with a level of transparency simply not available with Windows. Modifiable - Being able to modify most things on my computer through simple, text editable text files, without the worry/hassle of a registry of any kind. Value/Cost for performance - in my experience, Linux and OSS offer a price for performance return that Windows doesn't even come close to. Community - I like being part of a community of my choice, rather than being a slave to a company in Redmond that uses my net's back channel to report my usage behaviors and buying decisions - all for my own supposed benefit. Helping others - I can help others by introducing them to Linux for almost no cost without feeling like I am stealing and without fear of getting caught pirating Stability - the feeling that I can do almost anything to/with my PC and not have to worry about lock ups or slowing system performance. No need to do a general reboot every few days/hours just to keep my system fuctioning normally. Security - I know EXACTLY who has access to my computer and when, and I can easily control it. Choice - I have PLENTY of money to buy MS software, thankfully I have the CHOICE not to, which I gladly exercise. Interopability - I can use software that adheres to global, well documented and open computing standards instead of using software that has its own standards that don't play nice with anyone else's, forcing me to use that, and only that software. Zariyan Zephyr wrote: As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 12:14 pm, you wrote: On Sunday 30 March 2003 16:45, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ For me, it was freedom from having to update my virus files every week, and knowing that I am, essentially, immune to those nasties. Every virus scanner I have ever used was a resource hog. Now, I have dual boot machines, but I actually go months without booting Windows. The last straw for me was when my wife clicked on the AnnK virus and sent it to everyone in her address book. After all, it was the first of the line that could do that, and she got the file from someone she knew and trusted--the filename was truncated, and she thought it was a picture, which she gets all the time in her business. The anti-virus didn't even have an update for it because the virus was so new, so it didn't catch it. Now, my machines are VIRUS FREE. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 10:45, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. It's certainly not about money for me - here in Turkey I could buy any version of Windows on the street for about $2. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Just another reason to use Linux - you are not buying pirated software. =) robin.bcc wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 10:45, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. It's certainly not about money for me - here in Turkey I could buy any version of Windows on the street for about $2. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Hmmm,...I'll try to keep this under 10 pages! Reasons I like Linux; 1) I'm fed up with paying for something that doesn't work as advertised! 2) I'm fed up with buying products from companies that don't back up what they sell, without charging for the service. Imagine if new cars were sold/leased the way Microsoft products are! 3) If I wanted to lease an O/S, I'd fill in a lease agreement, not have one forced down my throat. 4) If I wanted to lease something, at least I get to take it for a test drive BEFORE signing the lease. 5) I'm fed up with big companies trying to control what I can do with my property. When I buy gas for my car, Shell doesn't tell me where I am allowed to drive, or how fast, or in what lane! 6) In the same analogy, Shell doesn't try to prosecute me if I pour fuel additives in my gas tank made by STP. But if I want to try to improve Windows, I can't, unless I replace it with Linux! 7) I detest the way Microsoft treats computer users like morons. Since they don't provide free support to back up their products ( Yeah, we know we sold you a piece of crap, but you'll have to pay us to fix it!), they should at least let me peek under the hood to try and fix it myself! 8) I'm a bit of a rebel. 9) I detest monopolies 10) I happen to like the fact that there's a Linux Community, where people help each other simply for the pleasure of helping each other, and not always for the Almighty Buck! I like the fact that this community is global and simply bypasses a lot of the crap that politicians dictate to us. It renews my faith in what humanity can accomplish when they are focussed towards a common goal. Sure I'm am idealist! What's your point? Done. Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 3/30/2003 at 5:16 PM David Williams wrote: On Sunday 30 March 2003 09:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ I converted last year to Linux (at home). I did it for choice and because I wanted to find and support an alternative to Microsoft (the possiblity of Paladium and the lockdown on XP scared the heck out of me). I have not looked back. I have found replacement software that was as good if not better for everything I was doing on Microsoft and Linux is significantly more stable. Case in point - I went to use my wifes PC (Win98) this afternoon (for the first time in months) and I had to reboot 3 times before I could finish what I was doing. I haven't had to rebooted my Linux box in about 4 months now and I'm not sure I had to reboot when I did. David -- ( ) ( ) ( 0 0 ) ---( )--- o Linux is not The Answer. Yes is the answer. Linux is The Question Registered Linux user #300497 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
I agree with all the above as well as this post To all I say AMEN ! Hear Hear ! Bravo! could not have said it better! Yeah ! and ME TOO ! -- Mike McNeese Springdale, Arkansas USA == Dual booting 98lite;MDK 9.0 kernel 2.4.19-16 Kde 3.1 Registered Linux User #248955 acqua / Keramik Theme == If obstacles are what you see in your path... Then you have lost sight of your goal! Lanman wrote: Hmmm,...I'll try to keep this under 10 pages! Reasons I like Linux; 1) I'm fed up with paying for something that doesn't work as advertised! 2) I'm fed up with buying products from companies that don't back up what they sell, without charging for the service. Imagine if new cars were sold/leased the way Microsoft products are! 3) If I wanted to lease an O/S, I'd fill in a lease agreement, not have one forced down my throat. 4) If I wanted to lease something, at least I get to take it for a test drive BEFORE signing the lease. 5) I'm fed up with big companies trying to control what I can do with my property. When I buy gas for my car, Shell doesn't tell me where I am allowed to drive, or how fast, or in what lane! 6) In the same analogy, Shell doesn't try to prosecute me if I pour fuel additives in my gas tank made by STP. But if I want to try to improve Windows, I can't, unless I replace it with Linux! 7) I detest the way Microsoft treats computer users like morons. Since they don't provide free support to back up their products ( Yeah, we know we sold you a piece of crap, but you'll have to pay us to fix it!), they should at least let me peek under the hood to try and fix it myself! 8) I'm a bit of a rebel. 9) I detest monopolies 10) I happen to like the fact that there's a Linux Community, where people help each other simply for the pleasure of helping each other, and not always for the Almighty Buck! I like the fact that this community is global and simply bypasses a lot of the crap that politicians dictate to us. It renews my faith in what humanity can accomplish when they are focussed towards a common goal. Sure I'm am idealist! What's your point? Done. Lanman *** REPLY SEPARATOR *** On 3/30/2003 at 5:16 PM David Williams wrote: On Sunday 30 March 2003 09:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ I converted last year to Linux (at home). I did it for choice and because I wanted to find and support an alternative to Microsoft (the possiblity of Paladium and the lockdown on XP scared the heck out of me). I have not looked back. I have found replacement software that was as good if not better for everything I was doing on Microsoft and Linux is significantly more stable. Case in point - I went to use my wifes PC (Win98) this afternoon (for the first time in months) and I had to reboot 3 times before I could finish what I was doing. I haven't had to rebooted my Linux box in about 4 months now and I'm not sure I had to reboot when I did. David -- ( ) ( ) ( 0 0 ) ---( )--- o Linux is not The Answer. Yes is the answer. Linux is The Question Registered Linux user #300497 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Jason Greenwood wrote: Just another reason to use Linux - you are not buying pirated software. =) I sometimes think it would be a good thing if MS finally succeeded in bullying developing countries into enforcing anti-piracy laws - that could really herald the end of Windows in most of the world. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 11:45, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. It's about Crystal Icons. Damian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Agree'd =) That's why their attepts at controlling it are primarily the most active in 1st world countries. They don't even actively discourage it elsewhere. They know it helps them maintain their monopoly and locking elsewhere. To them it is just a necessary evil and they probably use it as a write off anyway. Cheers Jason robin.bcc wrote: Jason Greenwood wrote: Just another reason to use Linux - you are not buying pirated software. =) I sometimes think it would be a good thing if MS finally succeeded in bullying developing countries into enforcing anti-piracy laws - that could really herald the end of Windows in most of the world. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 While I can't truly speak for all the people in North America or the UK. IMHO many Linux users are either hackers as in like to tinker with systems, want something secure and reliable, or just really dislike Micro$oft. Many are also students who maybe learning programming and can't afford to shell out over $100 per language for M$'s visual net software . Linux offers a great alternative. Most users can't afford every piece of software M$ or anyone else for that matter produces. I've been using Mandrake since 5.1or 5.2 (I'd have to look at the disk). I like how it has developed over the years. I can safely say on my part that 9.1 is the best yet. I was speechless when I installed it on a friends system and only had to set the correct time zone. I mean it picked up the printer, and the network and set them all up. I did have to add the Nvidia driver for his video, but compared to the windows installed I had just completed on the same system which required drivers on almost every piece of hardware it was mind blowing. I also enjoyed watching his jaw drop after the Mandrake install too ;-) That's my two cents worth anyway. Long live GNU Steven On Sunday 30 March 2003 08:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+h30m6UWsagwteioRAnwJAJ9fC8mfz+Vmjo0qyr3G6xR3pVEFowCcCZE1 uL8A9+sq75gqkZPpLuZjvAM= =Os6Y -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 09:13, Damian Gatabria wrote: On Sunday 30 March 2003 11:45, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. It's about Crystal Icons. Damian ...uh, Damian, you forgot to mention the really cool Penquin wallpapers, too, mate... -- Mon Mar 31 09:25:00 EST 2003 09:25:00 up 9 days, 21:12, 4 users, load average: 0.10, 0.24, 0.20 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** A bore is someone who persists in holding his own views after we have enlightened him with ours. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:40:32 + Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] insightfully noted: On Sunday 30 Mar 2003 3:45 pm, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. Hi, ZZ To start with, not all of us can afford M$ software, but you are absolutely right - it isn't really about money. It's about a better, more secure system. It's about an ideology of sharing, helping, and seeing things develop. And above all, it's about freedom of choice, not being dictated to. = Very nice, succinct summary, Anne. May I add enhanced control over the way our boxes are configured and work. Perhaps that's included in your freedom of choice comment above. Mike -- The man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life --Muhammad Ali Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
I guess it is partially about money for me. A few years ago when I knew almost nothing about computers I was more or less forced to buy a computer with windoze 98 installed, to the best of my knowledge that was the only thing available on any name brand computer and I sure did not know enough at the time to build my own at that time. I latter found out about the way that microsoft strong arms computer manufactures into building and selling only machines with windoze products installed. I also found out a hell of a lot of other things about how microsoft does business and none were to my liking. Due to the fact that my first machine came with windoze 98 installed I have a windoze 98 disk that I could use on any of the machines that I own now. It would be a bit unstable, need to waste resources on virus protection and have a number of security holes ECT but it would be capable of doing anything that I wanted to do. However I would much rather spend a few dollars on a operating system done by a honest decent company than continue to use stuff done by a dishonest corrupt monolopy. I was involved in cooperate America long enough to understand microsoft style business practices and I prefer not to support that sort of company in any way shape or form!!! So yes it is about partly about money. I would rather spend a few dollars on mandrake, support a good company and have a bit of a new learning curve than to use windoze for free. On Sunday 30 March 2003 10:52 pm, Jason Greenwood wrote: Just another reason to use Linux - you are not buying pirated software. =) robin.bcc wrote: On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 10:45, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. It's certainly not about money for me - here in Turkey I could buy any version of Windows on the street for about $2. Sir Robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- Marc KM5KW Powered by Mandrake Linux 9.0 and Kmail. This is a 100%Windows and microsoft free computer For a superior OS, virus and crash resistant go to http://www.mandrake.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Well, for personal use, it is partial money issue. But for in the corporate environment, it is a big issue, because developing with Microsoft very expensive. Microsoft charges per head for development softwares. With Linux, you can develop for free with Java, Perl, etc. On Sunday 30 March 2003 01:47 pm, Marc Oestreicher wrote: I guess it is partially about money for me. A few years ago when I knew almost nothing about computers I was more or less forced to buy a computer with windoze 98 installed, to the best of my knowledge that was the only thing available on any name brand computer and I sure did not know enough at the time to build my own at that time. I latter found out about the way that microsoft strong arms computer manufactures into building and selling only machines with windoze products installed. I also found out a hell of a lot of other things about how microsoft does business and none were to my liking. Due to the fact that my first machine came with windoze 98 installed I have a windoze 98 disk that I could use on any of the machines that I own now. It would be a bit unstable, need to waste resources on virus protection and have a number of security holes ECT but it would be capable of doing anything that I wanted to do. However I would much rather spend a few dollars on a operating system done by a honest decent company than continue to use stuff done by a dishonest corrupt monolopy. I was involved in cooperate America long enough to understand microsoft style business practices and I prefer not to support that sort of company in any way shape or form!!! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
I've installed Mandrake9.0 on IBM T20. I've already tried ask few questions here, have not gotten much help so I had to go through a lot of searching and reading as I don't like to give up easy :). Issues I have faced so far: 1. T20 wouldn't boot from CD (may be my burner let me down) 2. Sudden system lock up (I believe I fixed this one, issue was Mandrake install has detected my T20 display as plug-n-play, I found few XF86config out there with 'generic' so I have changed it and since it didn't lock up yet) 3. hot swap not working - I can probably live with this and do it after I suspend the laptop. I found this after few days looking everywhere in my free time as I had to do my job too (didn't get much sleep :). The issue here is, Mandrake sometimes doesn't survive even 2 suspends in a row and leaves display out of sync so the only way to get it work is to reboot. 4. I boot Mandrake fresh, hit a reboot button and nothing happens ... i have to do it again but then during a boot I get a message file system was not dismounted properly and have to go through fixing it. I have to hit log as different user twice too. 5. Today experience, as other PC I have at home was occupied, my wife wanted to check her email on mine so she opened Mozilla typed www.hotmail.com logged in and ... Mozilla died and all my web sites I had opened died too ... I couldn't even kill it doing kill -9. 6. I talked to friend about Linux and he suggested to check my video board performance using glxgears ... I'm getting only ~80 - 100 pps and he said it's way too slow, I've checked drm and it says no and it seems to be it. I don't know yet how to make it work but trying to get as much info as possible. Martin --- mycal62 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Martin , what did you try linux on ? and what version ?? Since this is a help list ask a specific question and let us try to help. You said getting help from Linux gurus isthe same hassle as getting help for MS issues. This is simply untrue , especially when you ask for opinions instead of help;-) Let us help an m also m wrote: As a newbie (I'll consider myself newbie till I'm ableto compile my own kernel and that won't happen anytime soon, as PC is just a tool for me and I don'thave time for it) I've decided to try Linux as hearingall that how great it is made me curious. So far itdidn't give me anything I couldn't do with Windows,stability is out of question as my laptop is freezingmore often with Linux then Win2k, things I like verymuch e.g. suspend or hot swapping of my cdrom withfloppy ain't working to the same extend as withWindows (sometimes after wakeing it up, displaywouldn't get in sync at all etc etc), fonts in sayMozilla sucks comparing what it is in Windows. Thereis still a lot of software I need in my day to daybusiness not available for Linux too, so the onlybright side is I can do my expect/tcl script on my PCinstead of login to some of the corporate Sun serversand I LOVE xterm ... getting help from Linux gurus isthe same hassle as getting help for MS issues.When I buy a PC it comes with Windows and I dont haveto pay anything extra, right? So ... what's the pointto do format c: and go for Linux?Hope I didn't upset anybody, just like to hear youropinion.Martin--- Lanman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hmmm,...I'll try to keep this under 10 pages!Reasons I like Linux;1) I'm fed up with paying for something that doesn'twork as advertised!2) I'm fed up with buying products from companiesthat don't back up what they sell, without chargingfor the service. Imagine if new cars weresold/leased the way Microsoft products are!3) If I wanted to lease an O/S, I'd fill in a leaseagreement, not have one forced down my throat.4) If I wanted to lease something, at least I get totake it for a test drive BEFORE signing the lease.5) I'm fed up with big companies trying to controlwhat I can do with my property. When I buy gas formy car, Shell doesn't tell me where I am allowed todrive, or how fast, or in what lane!6) In the same analogy, Shell doesn't try toprosecute me if I pour fuel additives in my gas tankmade by STP. But if I want to try to improveWindows, I can't, unless I replace it with Linux!7) I detest the way Microsoft treats computer userslike morons. Since they don't provide free supportto back up their products ( Yeah, we know we soldyou a piece of crap, but you'll have to pay us tofix it!), they should at least let me peek under thehood to try and fix it myself!8) I'm a bit of a rebel.9) I detest monopolies10) I happen to like the fact that there's a LinuxCommunity, where people help each other simply forthe pleasure of helping each other, and not alwaysfor the Almighty Buck! I like the fact that thiscommunity is global and simply bypasses a lot of thecrap that politicians dictate to us. It renews myfaith in what humanity can accomplish when they arefocussed towards a common goal. Sure I'm amidealist! What's your
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Micro$oft sux. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;) That's too bad, because it drives people away. For everyone with a hate-on for MS there are a dozen people who're potentially interested in UNIX but who are repelled by the puerile behavior that comes with it. I was one of them for about a decade. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 04:31 pm, Lyvim Xaphir wrote: Micro$oft sux. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;) --LX Hehehehehehe, you wouldn't be you if you could have resisted that Lyvim! and I'll continue this very popular theme: Micro$oft sux vacuum hard. :-) -- /\ Dark Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 13:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micro$oft sux. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;) That's too bad, because it drives people away. For everyone with a hate-on for MS there are a dozen people who're potentially interested in UNIX but who are repelled by the puerile behavior that comes with it. I was one of them for about a decade. Bingo - you hit the nail on the head. 24 years in this biz, and the worst fights I have seen have been 1.) Novell networking vs. UNIX networking 2.) IBM OS/2 vs. Win95 3.) Desqview vs. Win95 4.) OS/2 vs. NT 3.0 (and after) 5.) Windows(whatever version) vs. Mac 6.) Windows(whatever version) vs. linux(whatever version/distro/flavour) 7.) HTML vs. plain text 8.) emacs vs. vi 9.) Redwings vs. Maple Leafs 10.) Souther Baptists vs. Northern Catholics 11.) OJ vs. The Supreme Court Personally, I jab in fun - at least most of the time - as I have to support/care for quite a large number of Windows and Mac boxes in my current biz/venture - but there are those that do so with a horrible, mean, deep, hurtful vengeance... Some people have lost heaps of money in their dealings with either Microsoft of Microsoft products - so understanding and compassion have to come into play; yet, the same can be said in reverse. Either which, ignore those that M$ bash - just remember that most of them ain't been laid in a month of Sundays... -- Mon Mar 31 13:55:00 EST 2003 13:55:00 up 10 days, 1:42, 4 users, load average: 0.21, 0.15, 0.12 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** I know engineers. They love to change things. - Dr. McCoy Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 09:45 am, Zariyan Zephyr wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As a Linux newbie, I don't really understand why people in Europe and North America has chosen Linux for daily use. I think people in Europe and North America can afford Microsoft Windows and application softwares under Windows. It isn't about money, is it ?. ZZ ZZ: Well, in my case, money was a factor. This is a hobby, not a way of earning a living. Yes, I'm cheap and proud of it. However, that was just one of many considerations. Let me add another -- frustration -- to the many that have already been posted. An illustration: I recently replaced my old mouse with a new one -- same manufacturer (Logitech), same connection (USB), and the same price range (cheapest) -- the only difference being that the new one is optical and the old one was mechanical. I brought it home, swapped them out, booted into Mandrake, and it worked. Simple as that. No tweaking required. Several days later I did my monthly Windows (98SE) boot to update my checkbook. Arghhh!!! Windows decreed that since I had committed the sin of installing new hardware, I was consigned to Windows Configuration Purgatory. My punishment was to spend a half hour searching for driver files, trying to interpret GatesSpeak, rebooting, being subjected to the infamous BSOD (TM - Microsoft) and repeated until the Gods in Redmond were satisfied that I'd done my penance. Why? This is just a simple mouse -- what's the big deal? As near as I can determine, both rodents use the same protocols and have the same capabilities. (Note to self: Get rid of Quicken and avoid this misery.) Similar stories abound. See any Windows support site. Consider also: I do not update my antivirus .DAT files, nor do I defrag my HD, nor do I religiously access Windows Update to protect myself against this week's killer Windows worm. When my new 9.1 CDs arrive, I will do what I've always done -- copy /home to /archives, pop in the new CDs, do a new install, and in an hour or so I will have a brand new installation of a _full_ operating system, myriad browsers, office suites, and other good stuff. I will _not_ spend any time installing MS Office, McAfee, Norton and the like. BTW -- congratulations to you for an excellent question, and to those who have provided so many fine responses. It's been a good thread. -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
Hi, m wrote: It's not too encouraging ... are you saying I should give up? Perhaps. Hmmm, I don't like to give up easy. Why don't you rather suggest how to fix some of the things ... say make fonts in Mozilla look like in Windows. Things in Linux look/act differently to Windows, if you prefer Windows, stay with it. You'll never emulate Windows exactly, thank God. See comments below: As a newbie (I'll consider myself newbie till I'm able to compile my own kernel and that won't happen any time soon, as PC is just a tool for me and I don't have time for it) I've decided to try Linux as Then many of us are newbies too, if that's the definition. hearing all that how great it is made me curious. Good that you've heard good things, I love Linux myself, would never go back to Winblows. So far it didn't give me anything I couldn't do with Windows, That's not the point. If you think that the only important thing to do is re-create the Windows environment in Linux, forget it. stability is out of question as my laptop is freezing more often with Linux then Win2k, things I like Then you have a bung install, simple as that. Linux does not crash...repeat after me, does not crash, I have been using it for 2 years, so I know (others far longer, and they agree with me). The only way it would is if you were trying some exotic kernel or beta software or similar. very much e.g. suspend or hot swapping of my cdrom with floppy ain't working to the same extend as with Windows (sometimes after wakeing it up, display wouldn't get in sync at all etc etc), fonts in say Mozilla sucks comparing what it is in Windows. Sounds like an XFree/Video card problem to me. Pop in Knoppix and try the same thing, it may configure your video better than Mandrake does, it has on some of my boxes. There is still a lot of software I need in my day to day business not available for Linux too, Like? Be specific so we can make recommendations. so the only bright side is I can do my expect/tcl script on my PC Hey!! At least you found a silver lining!! instead of login to some of the corporate Sun servers and I LOVE xterm ... getting help from Linux gurus is the same hassle as getting help for MS issues. Um, no, I disagree. When I buy a PC it comes with Windows and I dont have to pay anything extra, right? Yes you do, it's bundled in with the price (ie. Windows Tax). Buy a whitebox and save between $100-$600 depending on the bundle. So ... what's the point to do format c: and go for Linux? If you still don't know all of the benefits, I'll post them again at the bottom of this email. Hope I didn't upset anybody, just like to hear your opinion. Ok, you got it. Cheers Jason PS, My PERSONAL reasons for using Linux/OSS: Freedom - the freedom to use, modify and in general, play with my software with a level of transparency simply not available with Windows. Modifiable - Being able to modify most things on my computer through simple, text editable text files, without the worry/hassle of a registry of any kind. Value/Cost for performance - in my experience, Linux and OSS offer a price for performance return that Windows doesn't even come close to. Community - I like being part of a community of my choice, rather than being a slave to a company in Redmond that uses my net's back channel to report my usage behaviors and buying decisions - all for my own supposed benefit. Helping others - I can help others by introducing them to Linux for almost no cost without feeling like I am stealing and without fear of getting caught pirating Stability - the feeling that I can do almost anything to/with my PC and not have to worry about lock ups or slowing system performance. No need to do a general reboot every few days/hours just to keep my system fuctioning normally. Security - I know EXACTLY who has access to my computer and when, and I can easily control it. Choice - I have PLENTY of money to buy MS software, thankfully I have the CHOICE not to, which I gladly exercise. Interopability - I can use software that adheres to global, well documented and open computing standards instead of using software that has its own standards that don't play nice with anyone else's, forcing me to use that, and only that software. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
9.) Redwings vs. Maple Leafs OT: Sorry I had throw this one in but _everyone_ knows that the Canucks rules anyway *retreats to his corner* /Anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 15:42, Anders Lind wrote: 9.) Redwings vs. Maple Leafs OT: Sorry I had throw this one in but _everyone_ knows that the Canucks rules anyway *retreats to his corner* /Anders A-HEM; I might have been away from the US for four years, but you can't possibly tell me that the Wings ain't kickin ass no moright? Tell me I'm right? Please? (BTW, I really do, did and will hate sports - much to the discontent of my Aussie mates - but I didn't mind watching a mind-numbing ice-hockey game filled with violence, fighting and heaps of beer - and they even fought on the ice, too!) -- Mon Mar 31 15:45:01 EST 2003 15:45:01 up 10 days, 3:32, 3 users, load average: 0.04, 0.10, 0.12 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * MDK 9.1 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting machine no:194239 * RH 7.3 * Sales - Service - Support - Tutor -- ** This messages was composed on a 100% Microsoft free computer ** Imitation is the sincerest form of plagarism. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Monday 31 March 2003 05:19, Lanman wrote: And this is a bad idea? Personally, I'm not all that fond of sharks! Besides, we could toss in the laywers while we were at it, and do the world a favor! LOL! Hey Bill! You get to jump in first, you lucky guy! Lanman hey watch it! That's polution! This way you'll have Greenpeace activists crawling all over you to protect those poor fish. EeSave our Sharks! ...? Good hunting, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Monday 31 March 2003 04:39, m wrote: Hope I didn't upset anybody, just like to hear your opinion. Martin Here's an extra nice one for the laptop: Once it's configured well you never have to switch the notebook off. I've got 9.0 running on a fuyitsu lifebook with 8 months uptime. I just close the lid and when I need it I just open it and carry on where I left off. You can actually hear the M$-laptop users, jaws hit the table when I do that in a meeting...Gawd, that's fast!! Good luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
On Sunday 30 March 2003 08:05 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: Either which, ignore those that M$ bash - just remember that most of them ain't been laid in a month of Sundays... (high-fives Herr Kuhn) what the man said. I've wasted my last 3am energy getting worked up over something like Windows vs. Linux. Programming for Windows keeps a roof over my head, learning Linux keeps life interesting. And I only feel like a fraud once a month or so, which is way over average! -- Chris Fox Server Developer Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Why do you choose Linux ?
When I buy a PC it comes with Windows and I dont have to pay anything extra, right? So ... what's the point to do format c: and go for Linux? Of course you are paying for Windows and all the software they push through your throat and they do not ask you if you want it. It is included in the price. Have you seen in the Mandrake site the prices of the new PC's loaded with Mandrake? Well below half the price of a commercial equivalent PC. Teilhard Knight The Extraterrestrial Who ate my sandwich? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
