Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Then there is the Sears business model: they buy more and more of a smaller companies output, then suddenly cancel. This forces the company into financial distress, ripe for aquisition. The mistake here is for the company to become dependant upon one buyer, but when someone wants to buy from you this rarely looks to be the mistake that it is. In the audio industry contracts are set up that a dealer must take several items in a manufacturer's line, and that they cannot have anything from certain other manufacturers. If you want to have things to sell in your store that's the game you have to play. If things like the above are commonplace, which they are, then when dealing with a company as industry-dominant as Microsoft who knows just what rules apply. On the other hand, many companies are founded with the intent that once successful they will be sold (for a bunch of money). Some people's skill is in founding and building to success. That is what they do, and that is all they are interested in. And I wouldn't want to compete against Microsoft either...let alone what they are capable of doing to competitors. Linux, on the other hand, isn't really playing any of these games. But it's going to remain a "niche" product until people can put a disc in and it will work. You may not like Microsoft, and their products don't work the way anybody likes, let alone all of the problems these products do have, but they DO work (at least for the most part). That's what Linux needs to achieve -- with Linux's other inherent advantages THEN it will be able to challenge Microsoft, dispite Microsoft's dominance. IBM's alliance is a good thing, but they have little real influence that will help Linux. "Nobody ever got fired for recommending IBM" doesn't mean that they are liked. -Gary- In a message dated 8/5/2000 11:00:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nobody "froces" anyone to sell their company. That is a business decision, most often for the best of the business-owner. Microsoft has the clout to "buy" its expertise. None of these exchanges can happened with consent.
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sat, 5 Aug 2000, Dacia and AzureRose wrote: chill out dude. We talk about all things hardware/computer related on this list. Education of all kinds happens here. That's a big part of the beauty of this list. I agree. It is fun to learn about other things that are discussed here. We're not rigid in things like that here. (I hope I can speak for the majority here.) Paul -- Cats could have ruled the Universe, but couldn't be bothered. -Paul Gray )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 -=PINE 4.21+Linux Mandrake 7.1=-
RE: [newbie] Linux resources online
1960's - Used crayons to color in punch cards while waiting in the computer room. 1976 - In high school we did some time sharing. 1979 - The college I attended thought they should start teaching this PC stuff. 1983 - Finally owned my own PC 1988 - Thought I knew enough to own my own computer company 1995 - Started to tinker with this Linux thingy 2000 - Thought I knew enough to start my own review website dedicated to Hardware and Linux (after all, assembled/built/repaired over 50,000 pieces of computer equipment ... ) Present - Discovered that the smartest people tell you that they don't know anything. It keeps the conversations much simpler :-) Layne www.linuxtests.org PS. We are always looking for volunteers with brains and ideas. Please contact me if you would like to have your thoughts on new hardware published on our website. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel Bodanske Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 12:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online My first job was selling Sanyo 8086 and 8088s back in 84, and I started programming on tandies in 81 Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
RE: [newbie] Linux resources online
Ah the good 'ol days. Things have gotten so complicated. I have to admit hardware and software have come a long way... It's still nice to look back. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Daniel Bodanske Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 3:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online My first job was selling Sanyo 8086 and 8088s back in 84, and I started programming on tandies in 81 Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Daniel Bodanske wrote: My first job was selling Sanyo 8086 and 8088s back in 84, and I started programming on tandies in 81 Hi Daniel. Cut my teeth on an old Atari 800XL. Remember those? ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
I have a few things to add in response to angry responses born from this particular thread. How can we know we are going less we understand where we came from? It is by which we take ideas and concepts already realized to found better and greater ideas. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Mark Weaver" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 7:32 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online sounds like this guy has been sitting at his monitor too long and has consumed massive quantities of coffee! He needs to unplug for a while and go pee!! ;) -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message... | Registered Linux user #182496 On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Romanator wrote: Frank Nazario wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [since I received only 35 Newbie on the 25th, none on the 26th 27th I'm reposting this. If there was an answer I would appreciate it if someone would forward it to me. I had thought that the Newbie server might be down, but since I have only a few (rather than scads) messages from Newbie today I'm assuming that I just didn't get my mail for some reason.] Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 11:54:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman this has nothing to do with linux or mandrake ...this is not the forum to discuss this. if you are interested go to the motorola forum and ask there .zye . THIS IS A LINUX FORUM!!! AND MAILING LIST Calm down. The temporary discussion started when the mail was down.
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
I still have some old 8086 machines. I figure they might be worth something in a few decades. I also have old amstrad z80s. If anyone thinks its not worth it, look up the price of the sinclair spetrum. Collecters item. - Original Message - From: Daniel Bodanske [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online My first job was selling Sanyo 8086 and 8088s back in 84, and I started programming on tandies in 81 Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Since you took the time and trouble to "respond" for everyone's edification, I will respond to you [and, everyone, I'm lengthy but I hope others of you will find this interesting]. In the post that I responded to we were talking about microprocessors. Doesn't your computer use a microprocessor? Assignment of the basic patent for the microprocessor effects everybody using a computer. Since patent is done in secret, the outcome is only known when the final decision has been made, Intel, Motorola, and others have gone ahead in the mean time, and once the patent is assigned things must be sorted out. If the guy in (was it Stanton, California?) got the patent, it raises many questions. Part of what I have learned here on Newbie has been from tying into the expertise of others here regarding the background of computing that Linux developed in, sprang from, and exists in currently [haven't you learned something interesting here that wasn't strictly "my install didn't recognize my NIC" or how do I get this game to run?]. I began in computing by teaching myself WordStar and CP/M on an Osborne when the only Apple was an Apple II (and with an expansion board for $400 you could run run CP/M and have a good wordprocessor: WordStar). Unix belonged to ATT, and the FreeSoftwareFoundation didn't exist yet. Several years later SCO Unix cost $2600 for a single 386 machine, and the FSF had the GNU C compiler but not enough other parts to make a working system. Understand that things change. I didn't pay enough attention, didn't have enough background, and wasn't able to appreciate some of the things that I was aware were going on. EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS BUILT ON WHAT CAME BEFORE, and history does influence what we experience as Reality, both in computing and in the world at large. I'm trying to make up for my lack of understanding; learn from this and don't make the same mistake that I did. I asked if someone knew the outcome of the patent decision because I felt that someone here would know, newbie being a very informed and varied group, and that these related issues DO effect us all. Maybe you need to spend a few hours playing the original ADVENTUR. That might help you to appreciate some of the games available now and illustrate this process of building on the past. For those of you that don't know, ADVENTUR was a game designed to play at a terminal with slow access to the main computer (300 baud modems if I remember right). It was developed at a time when there was no graphics, no sound, no mouse, etc. Yet it maintains your interest. It uses your imagination -- similar to the pre-TV days of radio drama. The radio program of Orson Wells "The War of the Worlds" LITERALLY had people committing suicide! Convincing? Involvement? That program's impact is still around today. I missed the days of Radio, but I see the effects. Have you noticed any of what I'm talking about? ADVENTUR was good enough to be ported from where it was originally developed (a PDP11 mainframe?) to CP/M, MSDOS and Windows. It established the category of adventure games. Since it was strictly text, it should work on DOSEMU, WINE or other emulators under Linux. You might want to spend a few hours to see if you can actually find and get into the entrance of the game, and what the foundation of today's games actually is. You can still experience your own history for yourself. You might even find it a little interesting. If nothing else you'll have an appreciation for the quote below, and a few other references you'll see from time to time. "You are standing at the end of a road" as ADVENTUR began, and the rest is up to you. -Gary- In a message dated 8/2/2000 1:31:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [since I received only 35 Newbie on the 25th, none on the 26th 27th I'm reposting this. If there was an answer I would appreciate it if someone would forward it to me. I had thought that the Newbie server might be down, but since I have only a few (rather than scads) messages from Newbie today I'm assuming that I just didn't get my mail for some reason.] Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 11:54:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman this has nothing to do with linux or mandrake ...this is not the forum to discuss this. if you are interested go to the motorola forum and ask there .zye . THIS IS A LINUX FORUM!!! AND MAILING
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Robert McNealy wrote: Nobody "froces" anyone to sell their company. That is a business decision, most often for the best of the business-owner. Microsoft has the clout to "buy" its expertise. None of these exchanges can happened with consent. Many of would not be in the IT, MIS, PC industires if it weren't FOR Microsoft. Through their business practices, they mass-marketed and made computers easy to use and popular. No one can argue that. Apple did not, or we would all be rooting for government to chew them a new a--hole. If you hate Windoze, don't use it. But for many of us, we have to still hybrid still because so many applications are not available in Linux, and so many customers want Win Appz. Not to mention many of our average secretary tyes would never be able to figure out how to use linux. I still know so many users to who have a hard enough time learning Outlook. Come on, in the early 80's everyone hate IBM, because they were the "Evil Empire", now it is MS. I bet it will be SUN (maybe Cisco) next. Look how they "protect" Java. Come on. MS bashing is so old. Let's ignore it and get some Linux work done. Original Message Follows From: "Ronald J. Hall" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:11:44 -0400 Romanator wrote: I am not 100% sure but it sounds familiar. They have purchased a lot of the smaller companies that provide coding, installation, uninstall, 'dll' stuff. A fair chunk of the coding is not necessarily written inside the Microsoft building. They own many smaller companies that contribute to the general product. Can you imagine if you had a smaller software producing good software, and then you tried to challenge Microsoft. Not only will they buy your company through the courts, and, if you don't agree or conform with their philosophy, they will boot you out of your own company. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Exactly. One of the big points in the Justice Depts case against them is that they have stifled inovation through such tactics. I mean whats the point of developing a killer piece of software, knowing that MS will just take it from you, by hook or by crook? Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) -- Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com welcome to the revolution that is Linux.
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
"Austin L. Denyer (SysAdmin.) as root" wrote: Oh yes - those were the days! nostalgia I remember thinking all my birthdays had come at once when I managed to upgrade my Sinclair ZX81 from 1kb to 16kb RAM. And, that 16kb cost me more than 64Mb would today... The printer was a small thermal affair that printed on what can only be described as silver toilet tissue at 50cps. One generally printed about 4 copies, and then created one readable copy by the liberal use of scissors/tape... ObOldFogie - I seem to remember a GUI bearing more than a little resemblance to Windoze that ran on a 48k Sinclair Spectrum... /nostalgia Regards, Ozz. "640K RAM is enough for ANYONE." - Bill Gates. PS - The old ZX81 now functions as a very useful doorstop ;-D Aww...too bad about the ZX81. I still have one functioning Atari Mega ST that I play (fondly!) old games on. Still a cool machine, even after all these years. One of the best/oddest things I remember from tech support at Atari Corp. about it was, if you experienced random rebooting, intermittant floppy driver errors, etc, etc, then the problem was more than likely just "chip creep" (hot/cold expansion). How to tell and fix it? Just pick up your Atari, and from a height of about a foot or so, drop it onto the hardest surface you could find. Amazingly enough, this does actually work, without destroying the computer! lol Later... -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
chill out dude. We talk about all things hardware/computer related on this list. Education of all kinds happens here. That's a big part of the beauty of this list. Dacia --- Frank Nazario [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [since I received only 35 Newbie on the 25th, none on the 26th 27th I'm reposting this. If there was an answer I would appreciate it if someone would forward it to me. I had thought that the Newbie server might be down, but since I have only a few (rather than scads) messages from Newbie today I'm assuming that I just didn't get my mail for some reason.] Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 11:54:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman this has nothing to do with linux or mandrake ...this is not the forum to discuss this. if you are interested go to the motorola forum and ask there .zye . THIS IS A LINUX FORUM!!! AND MAILING LIST __ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
My first job was selling Sanyo 8086 and 8088s back in 84, and I started programming on tandies in 81 Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
sounds like this guy has been sitting at his monitor too long and has consumed massive quantities of coffee! He needs to unplug for a while and go pee!! ;) -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message...| Registered Linux user #182496 On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Romanator wrote: Frank Nazario wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [since I received only 35 Newbie on the 25th, none on the 26th 27th I'm reposting this. If there was an answer I would appreciate it if someone would forward it to me. I had thought that the Newbie server might be down, but since I have only a few (rather than scads) messages from Newbie today I'm assuming that I just didn't get my mail for some reason.] Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 11:54:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman this has nothing to do with linux or mandrake ...this is not the forum to discuss this. if you are interested go to the motorola forum and ask there .zye . THIS IS A LINUX FORUM!!! AND MAILING LIST Calm down. The temporary discussion started when the mail was down.
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Sure sounds like it. If you're going to have a penguin as a pet, a little humour is highly encouraged. Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Mark Weaver wrote: sounds like this guy has been sitting at his monitor too long and has consumed massive quantities of coffee! He needs to unplug for a while and go pee!! ;) -- Mark ** =/\= No Penguins were harmed | ** _||_ in the making of this | ** =\/= message...| Registered Linux user #182496 On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Romanator wrote: Frank Nazario wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [since I received only 35 Newbie on the 25th, none on the 26th 27th I'm reposting this. If there was an answer I would appreciate it if someone would forward it to me. I had thought that the Newbie server might be down, but since I have only a few (rather than scads) messages from Newbie today I'm assuming that I just didn't get my mail for some reason.] Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 11:54:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman this has nothing to do with linux or mandrake ...this is not the forum to discuss this. if you are interested go to the motorola forum and ask there .zye . THIS IS A LINUX FORUM!!! AND MAILING LIST Calm down. The temporary discussion started when the mail was down.
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Just my $0.02 The guy from PARC who invented Ethernet and later took it with him when he left? Name was Bob Metcalfe, founder of 3Com.
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online...Chinese on Mandrake
Hi Brian. I am sorry to tell you that I am functionally illiterate in Chinese, so I only have the US English version installed. Only mentioned China because I am working here! Have a great day!! Steve Weltman - Original Message - From: "Brian King" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Steve, Are you using Chinese on Mandrake? I tried briefly by choosing GB Simplified Chinese in the language setting which converted my menus to code. I then tried selecting a Chinese font but it didn't do anything. There are some How to use Chinese on Linux docs around but it looks like it will take a bit of time to wade through it. Anybody else using Chinese or other languages on Mandrake? Brian (in Hong Kong) Steve Weltman wrote: Microsoft would only be so helpful for the right amount of money (usually more than the cost of the trouble, and the O/S you bought). Cheers! *(Having fun with Linux in China!) Steve Weltman - Original Message - From: "Daniel J. Ferris" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of cou rse, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." It is easy to get support for Windows. You call the tech support and wait on hold for hours on end. THEN you get to talk to somebody who really doesn't care about your problem, and probably don't know how to solve it anyway. To you tech support people out there, I know, your job sucks, you don't have to tell me heh heh. Aside from that... My experience with the 2 lists I subscribe to (KDE and Mandrake) people are more than willing to help. And you get anwsers that are to the point and correct most of the time. And unlike the Windows support, on the Linux lists (well, on the KDE list) you can get help from the developers themselves. Another example, a few months ago I was trying to compile and install Ksnuffle so I could have a nice easy to use sniffer program. When I went to compile it, gcc 2.95 did what it does best and ate itself on a change from char * to const char *. I e-mailed the developer and 2 weeks later he gave me a place where I could download the sources that were fixed for use with gcc 2.95. Somehow I doubt that Microsoft would be so helpful... :-) Dan
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) Oh yes - those were the days! nostalgia I remember thinking all my birthdays had come at once when I managed to upgrade my Sinclair ZX81 from 1kb to 16kb RAM. And, that 16kb cost me more than 64Mb would today... The printer was a small thermal affair that printed on what can only be described as silver toilet tissue at 50cps. One generally printed about 4 copies, and then created one readable copy by the liberal use of scissors/tape... ObOldFogie - I seem to remember a GUI bearing more than a little resemblance to Windoze that ran on a 48k Sinclair Spectrum... /nostalgia Regards, Ozz. "640K RAM is enough for ANYONE." - Bill Gates. PS - The old ZX81 now functions as a very useful doorstop ;-D
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Nobody "froces" anyone to sell their company. That is a business decision, most often for the best of the business-owner. Microsoft has the clout to "buy" its expertise. None of these exchanges can happened with consent. Many of would not be in the IT, MIS, PC industires if it weren't FOR Microsoft. Through their business practices, they mass-marketed and made computers easy to use and popular. No one can argue that. Apple did not, or we would all be rooting for government to chew them a new a--hole. If you hate Windoze, don't use it. But for many of us, we have to still hybrid still because so many applications are not available in Linux, and so many customers want Win Appz. Not to mention many of our average secretary tyes would never be able to figure out how to use linux. I still know so many users to who have a hard enough time learning Outlook. Come on, in the early 80's everyone hate IBM, because they were the "Evil Empire", now it is MS. I bet it will be SUN (maybe Cisco) next. Look how they "protect" Java. Come on. MS bashing is so old. Let's ignore it and get some Linux work done. Original Message Follows From: "Ronald J. Hall" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:11:44 -0400 Romanator wrote: I am not 100% sure but it sounds familiar. They have purchased a lot of the smaller companies that provide coding, installation, uninstall, 'dll' stuff. A fair chunk of the coding is not necessarily written inside the Microsoft building. They own many smaller companies that contribute to the general product. Can you imagine if you had a smaller software producing good software, and then you tried to challenge Microsoft. Not only will they buy your company through the courts, and, if you don't agree or conform with their philosophy, they will boot you out of your own company. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Exactly. One of the big points in the Justice Depts case against them is that they have stifled inovation through such tactics. I mean whats the point of developing a killer piece of software, knowing that MS will just take it from you, by hook or by crook? Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Frank Nazario wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [since I received only 35 Newbie on the 25th, none on the 26th 27th I'm reposting this. If there was an answer I would appreciate it if someone would forward it to me. I had thought that the Newbie server might be down, but since I have only a few (rather than scads) messages from Newbie today I'm assuming that I just didn't get my mail for some reason.] Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 11:54:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman this has nothing to do with linux or mandrake ...this is not the forum to discuss this. if you are interested go to the motorola forum and ask there .zye . THIS IS A LINUX FORUM!!! AND MAILING LIST Calm down. The temporary discussion started when the mail was down. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
O --- Nickolas Koehne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you guys wanna know how PARC Engineers built the Xerox Alto, how Steve Jobs "acquired" the design, and how microsoft stole it... A lot of the Apple rights were due to the fact that Xerox neither patented nor copyrighted mice, windows, etc. In fact, they were not sure that either law applied. Then Apple hired away a number of the people who developed their system. Apple argued, and the Court agreed, that much of the ideas in both operating systems were the intellectual property of those people. The Xerox system was both pretty fantastic and impractical. It was written in Smalltalk. The system allowed for wonderful degrees of information sharing and cooperative tool building, but it was extremely resource intensive. Nicolas Werth did a similar system called Lillith. Paul -- Paul Sherr, [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 07/29/2000
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Steve, Are you using Chinese on Mandrake? I tried briefly by choosing GB Simplified Chinese in the language setting which converted my menus to code. I then tried selecting a Chinese font but it didn't do anything. There are some How to use Chinese on Linux docs around but it looks like it will take a bit of time to wade through it. Anybody else using Chinese or other languages on Mandrake? Brian (in Hong Kong) Steve Weltman wrote: Microsoft would only be so helpful for the right amount of money (usually more than the cost of the trouble, and the O/S you bought). Cheers! *(Having fun with Linux in China!) Steve Weltman - Original Message - From: "Daniel J. Ferris" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." It is easy to get support for Windows. You call the tech support and wait on hold for hours on end. THEN you get to talk to somebody who really doesn't care about your problem, and probably don't know how to solve it anyway. To you tech support people out there, I know, your job sucks, you don't have to tell me heh heh. Aside from that... My experience with the 2 lists I subscribe to (KDE and Mandrake) people are more than willing to help. And you get anwsers that are to the point and correct most of the time. And unlike the Windows support, on the Linux lists (well, on the KDE list) you can get help from the developers themselves. Another example, a few months ago I was trying to compile and install Ksnuffle so I could have a nice easy to use sniffer program. When I went to compile it, gcc 2.95 did what it does best and ate itself on a change from char * to const char *. I e-mailed the developer and 2 weeks later he gave me a place where I could download the sources that were fixed for use with gcc 2.95. Somehow I doubt that Microsoft would be so helpful... :-) Dan
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [since I received only 35 Newbie on the 25th, none on the 26th 27th I'm reposting this. I had thought that the Newbie server might be down, but since I have only a few (rather than scads) messages from Newbie today I'm assuming that I just didn't get my mail for some reason.] I've heard many times over the years that Apple got the graphical interface idea from the Xerox PaloAltoResearchCenter people. A couple of years ago I saw (?The Pirates of Silicon Valley? -- don't recall) which portrayed the people at PARC adamently against showing this idea to Steve Jobs (of Apple). They were ordered by Xerox's Corporate Offices to show him their graphical developments. He took the idea and developed the LISA and the Macintosh. Bill Gates (of Microsoft, the young contender at this point in time) saw (the LISA?) at Apple, if I recall correctly, and began development of Windows. Copyright rulings were that the expression of an idea was what was copyrightable in these issues, and Apple lost the suit over Microsoft stealing the idea of the graphical environment, which they had stolen from Xerox PARC in the first place. PARC spawned several seminal ideas over the years. One is ETHERNET, the foundation ideas of interconnecting computers and how to do it, the protocols, etc. As I recall Xerox wouldn't support further development so these people (sorry I forgot the names) took ETHERNET with them when they left PARC, and continued to develop the protocols. Xerox blew things several times due to large (read industry dominant) company "corporate mentality". Xerox had no idea what to do with these ideas, but they made fortunes for other people and changed the face of computing. -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 4:43:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul One of Bill Gates business competitors quoted him, " Hey, don't tell me anything that you may be working on, otherwise, I will use it? Xerox I would chalk this up to poor upper management and decision making. Don't you love this: "See 'ya in court" attitude. I know, when you're dealing with ideas, patents etc. you have to take it to court. It just sounds funny: company C sues company B for something company A originally came up with. Hey, Kodak recently came back fairly strong with some great digital cameras. A little expensive. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
windows sucks -- Mark ** Registered Linux user # 182496 ** On Sat, 29 Jul 2000, Romanator wrote: "Ronald J. Hall" wrote: Romanator wrote: Nyuk..Nyuk.. grin Seriously though, isn't it a well documented fact that MS has "acquired" (and I use that term loosely!) much of Windoze code? PS For example, the compression (HD) software. Didn't they have to buy the code from a small company that was suing them? ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ I am not 100% sure but it sounds familiar. They have purchased a lot of the smaller companies that provide coding, installation, uninstall, 'dll' stuff. A fair chunk of the coding is not necessarily written inside the Microsoft building. They own many smaller companies that contribute to the general product. Can you imagine if you had a smaller software producing good software, and then you tried to challenge Microsoft. Not only will they buy your company through the courts, and, if you don't agree or conform with their philosophy, they will boot you out of your own company.
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Romanator wrote: I am not 100% sure but it sounds familiar. They have purchased a lot of the smaller companies that provide coding, installation, uninstall, 'dll' stuff. A fair chunk of the coding is not necessarily written inside the Microsoft building. They own many smaller companies that contribute to the general product. Can you imagine if you had a smaller software producing good software, and then you tried to challenge Microsoft. Not only will they buy your company through the courts, and, if you don't agree or conform with their philosophy, they will boot you out of your own company. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Exactly. One of the big points in the Justice Depts case against them is that they have stifled inovation through such tactics. I mean whats the point of developing a killer piece of software, knowing that MS will just take it from you, by hook or by crook? Anybody else on this list old enough to remember when the "suits" didn't run things, and games/software were ported to every single platform, just because they could/it was neat? Circa '80's with names like Tandy, Atari, Amiga, etc, etc,... ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
"Ronald J. Hall" wrote: Romanator wrote: Nyuk..Nyuk.. grin Seriously though, isn't it a well documented fact that MS has "acquired" (and I use that term loosely!) much of Windoze code? PS For example, the compression (HD) software. Didn't they have to buy the code from a small company that was suing them? ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/ I am not 100% sure but it sounds familiar. They have purchased a lot of the smaller companies that provide coding, installation, uninstall, 'dll' stuff. A fair chunk of the coding is not necessarily written inside the Microsoft building. They own many smaller companies that contribute to the general product. Can you imagine if you had a smaller software producing good software, and then you tried to challenge Microsoft. Not only will they buy your company through the courts, and, if you don't agree or conform with their philosophy, they will boot you out of your own company. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- I'll have to check this one out. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Romanator wrote: Nyuk..Nyuk.. grin Seriously though, isn't it a well documented fact that MS has "acquired" (and I use that term loosely!) much of Windoze code? PS For example, the compression (HD) software. Didn't they have to buy the code from a small company that was suing them? ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
No kidding. Xerox has come up with some of the most advanced ideas in our century. They also developed the ethernet, in part with DEC and Intel (Or IBM, but I believe it was Intel) -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Paul wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Dacia and AzureRose wrote: Yes, apple sued microsoft in the early 80's for stealing the GUI from them but microsoft argued successfully that GUI is the future of computing and as such copyrighting it is akin to trying to copyright "book" or "magazine". This ruling is atleast partially responsible for Linux being able to be distributed with macOS and winOS style GUI's without fear of legal reprisals. Cool huh? Yes, really cool. It is a funny thing to realize that with GUI's, Xerox for the first time came up with something "original" *grin* Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 I wonder what happened with Xerox? So many original ideas. They must be concentrating more on business solutions. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Awesome! Thanks Nickolas. Dacia --- Nickolas Koehne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you guys wanna know how PARC Engineers built the Xerox Alto, how Steve Jobs "acquired" the design, and how microsoft stole it... http://www.applemuseum.seastar.net/sections/gui.html There's everything you want to know about how the GUI was born. Including it's conception in 1945. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Adrian Smith wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they're not suing each other, the are either merging or buying off small bits of their offshoot companies. Hmhh... Makes you think. (he-he) -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
I've heard many times over the years that Apple got the graphical interface idea from the Xerox PaloAltoResearchCenter people. A couple of years ago I saw (?The Pirates of Silicon Valley? -- don't recall) which portrayed the people at PARC adamently against showing this idea to Steve Jobs (of Apple). They were ordered by Xerox's Corporate Offices to show him their graphical developments. He took the idea and developed the LISA and the Macintosh. Bill Gates (of Microsoft, the young contender at this point in time) saw (the LISA?) at Apple, if I recall correctly, and began development of Windows. Copyright rulings were that the expression of an idea was what was copyrightable in these issues, and Apple lost the suit over Microsoft stealing the idea of the graphical environment, which they had stolen from Xerox PARC in the first place. PARC spawned several seminal ideas over the years. One is ETHERNET, the foundation ideas of interconnecting computers and how to do it, the protocols, etc. As I recall Xerox wouldn't support further development so these people (sorry I forgot the names) took ETHERNET with them when they left PARC, and continued to develop the protocols. Xerox blew things several times due to large (read industry dominant) company "corporate mentality". Xerox had no idea what to do with these ideas, but they made fortunes for other people and changed the face of computing. -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 4:43:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Apple has always used Motorola. But I never heard the final disposition of the copyright issue for the microprocessor chip itself. Last I heard some guy in a garage was going to be granted the basic patent for the microprocessor. What became of this? -Gary- In a message dated 7/23/2000 11:54:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
When Osborne was still making CP/M computers Xerox made computer office computers. I wonder what else they do these days also. -Gary- In a message dated 7/25/2000 2:48:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I wonder what happened with Xerox? So many original ideas. They must be concentrating more on business solutions. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Microsoft would only be so helpful for the right amount of money (usually more than the cost of the trouble, and the O/S you bought). Cheers! *(Having fun with Linux in China!) Steve Weltman - Original Message - From: "Daniel J. Ferris" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." It is easy to get support for Windows. You call the tech support and wait on hold for hours on end. THEN you get to talk to somebody who really doesn't care about your problem, and probably don't know how to solve it anyway. To you tech support people out there, I know, your job sucks, you don't have to tell me heh heh. Aside from that... My experience with the 2 lists I subscribe to (KDE and Mandrake) people are more than willing to help. And you get anwsers that are to the point and correct most of the time. And unlike the Windows support, on the Linux lists (well, on the KDE list) you can get help from the developers themselves. Another example, a few months ago I was trying to compile and install Ksnuffle so I could have a nice easy to use sniffer program. When I went to compile it, gcc 2.95 did what it does best and ate itself on a change from char * to const char *. I e-mailed the developer and 2 weeks later he gave me a place where I could download the sources that were fixed for use with gcc 2.95. Somehow I doubt that Microsoft would be so helpful... :-) Dan
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Brian King wrote: Thanks, very interesting! The guy who thought up the concept of GUI - Vannevar Bush - also wrote an article called "As we may think" (or sth similar) in which he set out the idea of "hypertext". Really ahead of his time... Brian Nickolas Koehne wrote: If you guys wanna know how PARC Engineers built the Xerox Alto, how Steve Jobs "acquired" the design, and how microsoft stole it... http://www.applemuseum.seastar.net/sections/gui.html There's everything you want to know about how the GUI was born. Including it's conception in 1945. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Adrian Smith wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they're not suing each other, the are either merging or buying off small bits of their offshoot companies. Hmhh... Makes you think. (he-he) -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Just think of what is still in the making. Very interesting. Don't you just love it? -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Paul wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Dacia and AzureRose wrote: Yes, apple sued microsoft in the early 80's for stealing the GUI from them but microsoft argued successfully that GUI is the future of computing and as such copyrighting it is akin to trying to copyright "book" or "magazine". This ruling is atleast partially responsible for Linux being able to be distributed with macOS and winOS style GUI's without fear of legal reprisals. Cool huh? Yes, really cool. It is a funny thing to realize that with GUI's, Xerox for the first time came up with something "original" *grin* Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 I wonder what happened with Xerox? So many original ideas. They must be concentrating more on business solutions. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Nickolas Koehne wrote: If you guys wanna know how PARC Engineers built the Xerox Alto, how Steve Jobs "acquired" the design, and how microsoft stole it... http://www.applemuseum.seastar.net/sections/gui.html There's everything you want to know about how the GUI was born. Including it's conception in 1945. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Adrian Smith wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they're not suing each other, the are either merging or buying off small bits of their offshoot companies. Hmhh... Makes you think. (he-he) -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293 Very interesting article. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
It just goes to show, the only stupid question is the question that is not asked. He asked himself a question, he wrote himself an answer, Xerox then made it a reality. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Brian King" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 4:52 AM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Thanks, very interesting! The guy who thought up the concept of GUI - Vannevar Bush - also wrote an article called "As we may think" (or sth similar) in which he set out the idea of "hypertext". Really ahead of his time... Brian Nickolas Koehne wrote: If you guys wanna know how PARC Engineers built the Xerox Alto, how Steve Jobs "acquired" the design, and how microsoft stole it... http://www.applemuseum.seastar.net/sections/gui.html There's everything you want to know about how the GUI was born. Including it's conception in 1945. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Adrian Smith wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they're not suing each other, the are either merging or buying off small bits of their offshoot companies. Hmhh... Makes you think. (he-he) -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Dacia and AzureRose wrote: Yes, apple sued microsoft in the early 80's for stealing the GUI from them but microsoft argued successfully that GUI is the future of computing and as such copyrighting it is akin to trying to copyright "book" or "magazine". This ruling is atleast partially responsible for Linux being able to be distributed with macOS and winOS style GUI's without fear of legal reprisals. Cool huh? Yes, really cool. It is a funny thing to realize that with GUI's, Xerox for the first time came up with something "original" *grin* Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
If you guys wanna know how PARC Engineers built the Xerox Alto, how Steve Jobs "acquired" the design, and how microsoft stole it... http://www.applemuseum.seastar.net/sections/gui.html There's everything you want to know about how the GUI was born. Including it's conception in 1945. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Adrian Smith wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they're not suing each other, the are either merging or buying off small bits of their offshoot companies. Hmhh... Makes you think. (he-he) -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Thanks, very interesting! The guy who thought up the concept of GUI - Vannevar Bush - also wrote an article called "As we may think" (or sth similar) in which he set out the idea of "hypertext". Really ahead of his time... Brian Nickolas Koehne wrote: If you guys wanna know how PARC Engineers built the Xerox Alto, how Steve Jobs "acquired" the design, and how microsoft stole it... http://www.applemuseum.seastar.net/sections/gui.html There's everything you want to know about how the GUI was born. Including it's conception in 1945. -Darkeyes - Original Message - From: "Romanator" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux resources online Adrian Smith wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] If they're not suing each other, the are either merging or buying off small bits of their offshoot companies. Hmhh... Makes you think. (he-he) -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! big grin -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! big grin A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Paul wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! big grin A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Paul, the company was Xerox (believe it or not!!!). At their Palo Alto research lab they invented the mouse (the first one was made of wood!) and the GUI. Apple tried numerous times to sue MS about copying their interface, failing every time (since they themselves had ripped it from Xerox). In fact, part of the deal Apple made with MS a few years ago (in which MS injected something like $US150 million into the troubled company and promised to continue developing MS Office for MacOS) involved Apple dropping all claims that MS had copied their GUI. -- _ Sridhar Dhanapalan Linux is like a wigwam...No windows, no gates. Apache inside. _
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Actually, the company was Xerox, whom Apple stole their original GUI from. Jerry
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Paul wrote: A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul It was something like that. Don't remember if it was Kodak or not though. Xerox?/Palo Alto labs was the original designers behind a mouse driven GUI though. Just never did anything with it. The history is sort of covered in "The Pirates of Silicon Valley". ;-) -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Paul, I believe the company was Xerox. but the rest is accurate. --T. Paul wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! big grin A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Nyuk..Nyuk.. "Ronald J. Hall" wrote: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! big grin -- /\ DarkLord \/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Didn't Intel originally own the patent rights for some of the early chips that Apple and other companies were using? Roman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Actually, the company was Xerox, whom Apple stole their original GUI from. Jerry
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
it was xerox (sp?). THey had the first GUI and "mouse" built and working at their palo alto research laboratory. Steve jobs or whoever took the idea. Dacia --- Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! big grin A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Dacia and AzureRose wrote: it was xerox (sp?). THey had the first GUI and "mouse" built and working at their palo alto research laboratory. Steve jobs or whoever took the idea. Dacia --- Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Ronald J. Hall wrote: Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? snip Awe, c'mon Roman...its okay to say "blood-sucking leech" when it comes to Windog! big grin A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ It's amazing that one Windows email can bring out the best from Linux users. It's quite interesting to find the truth in the development of software and hardware over last few years. Also, you can't always trust every article you read in a PC magazine about an OS unless you check it out for yourself. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Dacia and AzureRose wrote: it was xerox (sp?). THey had the first GUI and "mouse" built and working at their palo alto research laboratory. Steve jobs or whoever took the idea. Ah, indeed. It was Xerox. At least I had the number of letters in the name right (grin) Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
he he he he...details right? Incidentally, this particular thread really demonstrates what I like about this list. Fun, informative, friendly and useful. Dacia --- Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 23 Jul 2000, Dacia and AzureRose wrote: it was xerox (sp?). THey had the first GUI and "mouse" built and working at their palo alto research laboratory. Steve jobs or whoever took the idea. Ah, indeed. It was Xerox. At least I had the number of letters in the name right (grin) Paul -- Promise, large promise, is the soul of an advertisement. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403 __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Wow! truer words were never spoken! -- Mark ** Registered Linux user # 182496 ** On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: Linux newsgroups provide friendly support for new and old users. The politics involved in writing articles by 'ghost writers' for some of these PC magazines is laughable? Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? Read your history, rather than quoting articles written by ghost writers. Linux doesn't bite nor do the users. In fact, you'll find them quite friendly and very helpful. All true, but I believe the bottom line here is that reviews and commentaries in 'pc' magazines, including sites like ZD and Cnet, are the worst places to go for info on hardware and software. They don't bite the hands that feed 'em, their advertisers
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Yes, apple sued microsoft in the early 80's for stealing the GUI from them but microsoft argued successfully that GUI is the future of computing and as such copyrighting it is akin to trying to copyright "book" or "magazine". This ruling is atleast partially responsible for Linux being able to be distributed with macOS and winOS style GUI's without fear of legal reprisals. Cool huh? Dacia --- Adrian Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
the xerox parc (palo alto research center) developed the gui and mouse.. but xerox thought it was a waste of time, and sold the work parc had done to apple... who then used it.. At 03:28 PM 7/23/2000 -0600, you wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Dacia and AzureRose wrote: Yes, apple sued microsoft in the early 80's for stealing the GUI from them but microsoft argued successfully that GUI is the future of computing and as such copyrighting it is akin to trying to copyright "book" or "magazine". This ruling is atleast partially responsible for Linux being able to be distributed with macOS and winOS style GUI's without fear of legal reprisals. Cool huh? Dacia --- Adrian Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: actually, i think (could be wrong) that it was xerox that was going to sue apple, they came up with the GUI first. i also think that Apple did actually get it in a court, the it was ruled that the GUI was not something they could claim as their own. Romanator wrote: Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? A nice little thing I once read in a book (don't recall the title, I read too much :) is that at one time Apple wanted to sue Microsoft for copying the idea of the mouse-driven graphical interface. Then, from Palo Alto, Kodak (!!) came up and threatened to sue Apple for the same thing if they were going on with that. Old film and paper documents showed that Kodak had been experimenting with mouses etc. already long before Apple got the idea. (Could be that I am completely wrong with Kodak as the company, but that is how I remember it.) Paul Adrian Smith 'de telepone dude Telecom Dept. x 7042 [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ Money and greed. Makes for a great movie.(I think it's been done) But it's in an ongoing process. Very cool. -- Roman Registered Linux User #179293
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: Quote from a PC magazine:- "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel What a load of cobblers!! As a Linux newbie I have found support to be fantastic, friendly and accurate, both on this list and others. What was the author's name of this article - Gates?? Roger
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
wow...however wrote that is an idiot ;-) Dacia --- Adriaan Barel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quote from a PC magazine:- "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel __ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
This may have been true a few years ago, but now there are quite a few friendly resources available. I have learned everything about Linux from: 1) books; and 2) distibution mailing lists such as this one. I used SuSE before Mandrake, and SuSE has a user-friendly mailing list as well. Can you say "FUD"? Phil On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Adriaan Barel wrote: Quote from a PC magazine:- "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel -- Evil is that which one believes of others. It is a sin to believe evil of others, but it is seldom a mistake. -- H.L. Mencken
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
There are always those who will expound upon the weaknesses of something strange or disliked even though they may have no experience with the strangeness. There are those who will also lie outright to achieve their goals. So I frequently told my children as they grew up to believe only 10% of what you read, 20% of what you hear, and 50% of what you see, and question everything. This list is a combined 80%. Ha! I have found as much or more help in the linux community as I was ever able to find with windoze. The spirit of linux is outstanding! May the Penguin live forever.Dennis Jeff Malka wrote: That has not been my experience in this Newbie Mandrake list. I have gotten terrific help here. Jeff Malka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Registered Linux user 183185 - Original Message - From: Adriaan Barel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 11:53 AM Subject: [newbie] Linux resources online Quote from a PC magazine:- "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel -- Dennis-Registered Linux User #180842
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Roger Pithers wrote: It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel Hello Adriaan, Thanks for posting this piece, it is really hilarious! :) What a load of cobblers!! As a Linux newbie I have found support to be fantastic, friendly and accurate, both on this list and others. What was the author's name of this article - Gates?? Hehehe... I would almost think so. Through a former job I have often had the pleasure of attempting to get support from the Microsoft Kartel. Believe me, it ain't an easy thing to do. First you have to pay a LOT of money to be able to get support, and then you are sent from left to right, to up and down and back to left again, in the circle. Until your donation has depleted, no answer has been provided, and you can start again. Compare that to the linux lists. I think the only hexadecimal that comes by here are the PGP keys. *grin* Paul -- No man would listen to you if he didn't know it was his turn to speak next. )0([[EMAIL PROTECTED]])0( http://nlpagan.net - ICQ 147208 Registered Linux User 174403
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: Linux newsgroups provide friendly support for new and old users. The politics involved in writing articles by 'ghost writers' for some of these PC magazines is laughable? Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? Read your history, rather than quoting articles written by ghost writers. Linux doesn't bite nor do the users. In fact, you'll find them quite friendly and very helpful. All true, but I believe the bottom line here is that reviews and commentaries in 'pc' magazines, including sites like ZD and Cnet, are the worst places to go for info on hardware and software. They don't bite the hands that feed 'em, their advertisers -- ~~ Tom Brinkman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Adriaan Barel wrote: Quote from a PC magazine:- "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Well, Adriaan, you might have quoted the whole thing to begin with or posted a link where it could be read. That would prevent such misunderstandings from occurring. Phil On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Adriaan Barel wrote: FUD ? The article goes on to say:- " Suss out a newsgroup before you ask a question. If the newsgroup looks too rough-and-tumble for your tastes, see whether you can find an alternative resource. If you get flamed, don't respond. Look elsewhere for help" Couldn't help myself! Adriaan Barel This may have been true a few years ago, but now there are quite a few friendly resources available. I have learned everything about Linux from: 1) books; and 2) distibution mailing lists such as this one. I used SuSE before Mandrake, and SuSE has a user-friendly mailing list as well. Can you say "FUD"? Phil On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, Adriaan Barel wrote: Quote from a PC magazine:- "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel -- Evil is that which one believes of others. It is a sin to believe evil of others, but it is seldom a mistake. -- H.L. Mencken
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Absolutely. Many ghost writers can go as far as asking the creators of the product if they like the article before it goes to print. Cheers! Roman Tom Brinkman wrote: On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: Linux newsgroups provide friendly support for new and old users. The politics involved in writing articles by 'ghost writers' for some of these PC magazines is laughable? Let's take it a little further. Windows isn't original. Isn't it a derivative? Read your history, rather than quoting articles written by ghost writers. Linux doesn't bite nor do the users. In fact, you'll find them quite friendly and very helpful. All true, but I believe the bottom line here is that reviews and commentaries in 'pc' magazines, including sites like ZD and Cnet, are the worst places to go for info on hardware and software. They don't bite the hands that feed 'em, their advertisers -- ~~ Tom Brinkman[EMAIL PROTECTED] Adriaan Barel wrote: Quote from a PC magazine:- "Let's face it: getting support for Windows is much easier than getting support for Linux. That's because there are a few things militating against the development of a useful Linux support network. The first is that Linux is a derivative of Unix, a true programmer's paradise. Unix has long been the domain which you enter by walking beneath banners that say 'Normal humans need not apply' and 'User-friendliness is for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel
Re: [newbie] Linux resources online
Adriaan Barel wrote: Quote from a PC magazine:- snip for wimps'. A lot of this attitude has rolled over into the Linux community. It expresses itself in newsgroups where flaming is a matter of course, anyone who can't phrase a question in hexadecimal is torn to bits, and medals are awarded for answers couched in the most cryptic terms possible." Adriaan Barel I really don't feel like that attitude applies to this mailing list at all... -- /\ DarkLord \/
