RE: Switch opinions

[Evan Brastow]

Hi folks,

I just wanted to thank everyone for their (strong) opinions on switches. I 
ended up buying another HP ProCurve.

When I talked to HP support about my issue, their only suggestion was to update 
the firmware - not quite what I was hoping for, and it hasn't solved the issue, 
but one thing I've done in the meantime is buy a 24 port ProCurve and stick it 
in my server room and have all servers going through that. And I'm keeping the 
48 port ProCurve I have because I can't seem to determine with absolute 
confidence that it is the source of my issues with the SonicWALL. I think I'm 
up to about $5000 in consulting fees trying to solve this issue :)

Fun, fun!

Thanks again,

Evan


From: pdw1...@hotmail.com [mailto:pdw1...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 8:57 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

Aaron, I just wanted to post my thanks for your, and the other debater's, 
comments.  I found the whole thread very interesting and enlightening.  I would 
alos like to say that it was very, very nice to see a debate in which the facts 
and opinions did not develop into ad hominem attacks and a flame war.

From: arohy...@dpsciences.com
To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:56:14 -0400
Subject: RE: RE: Switch opinions
OK... I'm done arguing this with you guys... it's obvious that this 
conversation/debate isn't going to go anywhere, and I'm out of time to continue 
it.  I do appreciate the input, though, as I've found myself ignorant of a lot 
of features that HP has when compared to Cisco... I still like Cisco better 
though... call it personal preference.  Enjoy HP, and I'll enjoy working with 
Cisco... agree to disagree.  The OP simply wanted opinions on Catalyst 2960 
switches and support... which I gave.

For sake of reference, however, here are my responses to the last statements:


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

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RE: Switch opinions

[pdw1914]

Aaron, I just wanted to post my thanks for your, and the other debater's, 
comments.  I found the whole thread very interesting and enlightening.  I would 
alos like to say that it was very, very nice to see a debate in which the facts 
and opinions did not develop into ad hominem attacks and a flame war.  

From: arohy...@dpsciences.com
To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:56:14 -0400
Subject: RE: RE: Switch opinions
















OK… I’m done arguing this with you guys… it’s
obvious that this conversation/debate isn’t going to go anywhere, and I’m
out of time to continue it.  I do appreciate the input, though, as I’ve
found myself ignorant of a lot of features that HP has when compared to Cisco…
I still like Cisco better though… call it personal preference.  Enjoy HP,
and I’ll enjoy working with Cisco… agree to disagree.  The OP
simply wanted opinions on Catalyst 2960 switches and support…
which I gave.

 

For sake of reference, however, here are my responses to the
last statements:

 
  
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

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RE: Switch opinions

[pdw1914]

You know, that's a good STFU line even if you're not talking about switches. 

> Subject: RE: RE: Switch opinions
> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 11:04:37 -0400
> From: scaes...@caesare.com
> To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com
> 
> Plug one end of your Ethernet cable in to the switch.
> 
> Shove the other end in your /dev/nul orifice.
> 
> -sc
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Charlie Kaiser [mailto:charl...@golden-eagle.org]
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 10:24 AM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: RE: RE: Switch opinions
> > 
> > But can they pipe packets to dev null?
> > 
> > ***
> > Charlie Kaiser
> > charl...@golden-eagle.org
> > Kingman, AZ
> > ***
> > 
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Jeff Steward [mailto:jstew...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 7:21 AM
> > > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> > >
> > > Cisco switches are web scale...
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andrew S. Baker
> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >   ROFL!  I can see it now.
> > >
> > >   ASB
> > >
> > >
> > >   On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> > 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >       It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
> > >
> > >   -sc
> > >
> > >
> > >   > -Original Message-
> > >   > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > >   > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
> > >   > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > >
> > >   > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> > >   >
> > >   > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> > > 
> > >   > wrote:
> > >   > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a
> "better"
> > switch for
> > >   > >> the money, and their support is better... then why
> > aren't they the
> > > market
> > >   > leader?
> > >   > >
> > >   > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger
> > sales vs. quality".
> > >   >
> > >   >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
> > >
> > >   >
> > >   > -- Ben
> > >   >
> > >
> > >
> > >   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog!
> ~
> > >   ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>
> > ~
> > >
> > >   ---
> > >   To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> > > software.com/read/my_forums/
> > >   or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> > >   with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> > >
> > >
> > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> > >
> > > ---
> > > To manage subscriptions click here:
> > http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> > > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> > > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> > 
> > ---
> > To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> > software.com/read/my_forums/
> > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ---
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> 
  
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[William Robbins]

Yes, I'll even fill it up with gas when I'm done.

 - WJR


On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 22:20, Don Ely  wrote:

> Will I get it back?  I like to throw stones in a glass house...
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:14 PM, William Robbins wrote:
>
>> Can I borrow your rock?  I need to throw it at someone.
>>
>>  - WJR
>>
>>
>>  On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 16:50, Don Ely  wrote:
>>
>>> My rock is shinier than your rock  Neener neener neener
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Andrew S. Baker wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Three points:
>>>>
>>>> - Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is
>>>> somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support
>>>> contact.  (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)
>>>>
>>>> - I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not
>>>> make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been
>>>> skewed by market share.
>>>>
>>>> - Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide
>>>> some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring
>>>> costs our complexity that negate the cost differential.
>>>>
>>>> You've already  agreed with the equality of quality.
>>>>
>>>> These are all part of the value proposition.
>>>>
>>>> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker <http://xeesm.com/AndrewBaker>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Motorola Droid
>>>>
>>>>  On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough.
>>>> My point is one of support *value*, rather than support *cost*.  Is HP
>>>> cheaper than Cisco when it comes to support? … yes, hands down.  Does HP
>>>> provide the same level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? … I
>>>> would have to say no.  Again, *you get what you pay for*.  You’re not
>>>> paying for high value support… thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment 
>>>> your
>>>> way and let you talk to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you
>>>> happy.  It’s worth it to them.  Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different
>>>> approach… you pay for support, but have access to a large pool of technical
>>>> resources when things go awry… even access to the developers themselves.
>>>> Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one of the best online documentation
>>>> systems of any manufacturer in the world… becoming familiar with Cisco
>>>> products is not hard… and it’s free.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but
>>>> how do you define “comparable” switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches
>>>> and both operate at 10/100/1000Gb… and if that’s all you’re after, then you
>>>> shouldn’t be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and
>>>> technologically advanced features in their product lineup… “comparing” 
>>>> these
>>>> two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco’s “cheap”
>>>> in terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they’re ungodly 
>>>> expensive,
>>>> but those “others” typically aren’t concerned with the added features that
>>>> you get with Cisco… thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for
>>>> that matter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than
>>>> 20% of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would 
>>>> make
>>>> sense.  *I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here*.
>>>> You’re right, both are rock solid!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Aaron T. Rohyans
>>>> Senior Network Engineer
>>>>
>>>> CCIE #21945
>>>>
>>>> DPSciences Corporation
>>>> 7400 N. Shadeland...
>>>>
>>>>   *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>>>> Subject: Re: Switch opinions
>>>>
&g

RE: RE: Switch opinions

[Steven M. Caesare]

Plug one end of your Ethernet cable in to the switch.

Shove the other end in your /dev/nul orifice.

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Charlie Kaiser [mailto:charl...@golden-eagle.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 10:24 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: RE: Switch opinions
> 
> But can they pipe packets to dev null?
> 
> ***
> Charlie Kaiser
> charl...@golden-eagle.org
> Kingman, AZ
> ***
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jeff Steward [mailto:jstew...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 7:21 AM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> >
> > Cisco switches are web scale...
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andrew S. Baker

> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ROFL!  I can see it now.
> >
> > ASB
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
> >
> > -sc
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> >
> > > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
> > > To: NT System Admin Issues
> >
> > > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> > 
> > > wrote:
> > > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a
"better"
> switch for
> > > >> the money, and their support is better... then why
> aren't they the
> > market
> > > leader?
> > > >
> > > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger
> sales vs. quality".
> > >
> > >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
> >
> > >
> > > -- Ben
> > >
> >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog!
~
> > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>
> ~
> >
> > ---
> > To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> > software.com/read/my_forums/
> > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> > <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> > ---
> > To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> 
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> software.com/read/my_forums/
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

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~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Jonathan Link]

Says the guy responding to a nonesense post... :-)

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Kelsey, John  wrote:

>  You guys have WAY too much time on your hands J
>
>
>
> *From:* Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, September 17, 2010 10:30 AM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: RE: Switch opinions
>
>
>
> Careful, that sounds like routing to me.
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Charlie Kaiser <
> charl...@golden-eagle.org> wrote:
>
> But can they pipe packets to dev null?
>
> ***
> Charlie Kaiser
> charl...@golden-eagle.org
> Kingman, AZ
> ***
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jeff Steward [mailto:jstew...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 7:21 AM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> >
> > Cisco switches are web scale...
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andrew S. Baker 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >   ROFL!  I can see it now.
> >
> >   ASB
> >
> >
> >   On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >   It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
> >
> >   -sc
> >
> >
> >   > -Original Message-
> >   > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> >
> >   > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
> >   > To: NT System Admin Issues
> >
> >   > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> >   >
> >   > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> > 
> >   > wrote:
> >   > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a
> "better"
> switch for
> >   > >> the money, and their support is better... then why
> aren't they the
> > market
> >   > leader?
> >   > >
> >   > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger
> sales vs. quality".
> >   >
> >   >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
> >
> >   >
> >   > -- Ben
> >   >
> >
> >
> >   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> >   ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> >   ---
> >   To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> > software.com/read/my_forums/
> >   or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> >   with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> > ---
> > To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> > or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> > with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ---
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RE: RE: Switch opinions

[Kelsey, John]

You guys have WAY too much time on your hands J

 

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 10:30 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions

 

Careful, that sounds like routing to me.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Charlie Kaiser
 wrote:

But can they pipe packets to dev null?

***
Charlie Kaiser
charl...@golden-eagle.org
Kingman, AZ
***



> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Steward [mailto:jstew...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 7:21 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
>
> Cisco switches are web scale...
>
> -Jeff
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andrew S. Baker 
wrote:
>
>
>   ROFL!  I can see it now.
>
>   ASB
>
>
>   On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare

> wrote:
>
>
>   It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
>
>   -sc
>
>
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
>
>   > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
>   > To: NT System Admin Issues
>
>   > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
>   >
>   > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> 
>   > wrote:
>   > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a
"better"
switch for
>   > >> the money, and their support is better... then why
aren't they the
> market
>   > leader?
>   > >
>   > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger
sales vs. quality".
>   >
>   >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
>
>   >
>   > -- Ben
>   >
>
>
>   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog!
~
>   ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
>   ---
>   To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
<http://lyris.sunbelt-/> 
> software.com/read/my_forums/
>   or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>   with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin



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---
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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Jonathan Link]

Careful, that sounds like routing to me.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Charlie Kaiser
wrote:

> But can they pipe packets to dev null?
>
> ***
> Charlie Kaiser
> charl...@golden-eagle.org
> Kingman, AZ
> ***
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jeff Steward [mailto:jstew...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 7:21 AM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> >
> > Cisco switches are web scale...
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andrew S. Baker 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >   ROFL!  I can see it now.
> >
> >   ASB
> >
> >
> >   On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >   It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
> >
> >   -sc
> >
> >
> >   > -Original Message-
> >   > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> >
> >   > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
> >   > To: NT System Admin Issues
> >
> >   > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> >   >
> >   > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> > 
> >   > wrote:
> >   > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a
> "better"
> switch for
> >   > >> the money, and their support is better... then why
> aren't they the
> > market
> >   > leader?
> >   > >
> >   > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger
> sales vs. quality".
> >   >
> >   >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
> >
> >   >
> >   > -- Ben
> >   >
> >
> >
> >   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> >   ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> >   ---
> >   To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> > software.com/read/my_forums/
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> >   with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> >
> >
> > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> > ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> >
> > ---
> > To manage subscriptions click here:
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>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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RE: RE: Switch opinions

[Charlie Kaiser]

But can they pipe packets to dev null?

***
Charlie Kaiser
charl...@golden-eagle.org
Kingman, AZ
***  


> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Steward [mailto:jstew...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 7:21 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> 
> Cisco switches are web scale...
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andrew S. Baker 
wrote:
> 
> 
>   ROFL!  I can see it now.
> 
>   ASB
> 
> 
>   On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare

> wrote:
> 
> 
>   It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
> 
>   -sc
> 
> 
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> 
>   > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
>   > To: NT System Admin Issues
> 
>   > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
>   >
>   > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare
> 
>   > wrote:
>   > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a "better"
switch for
>   > >> the money, and their support is better... then why
aren't they the
> market
>   > leader?
>   > >
>   > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger
sales vs. quality".
>   >
>   >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
> 
>   >
>   > -- Ben
>   >
> 
> 
>   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>   ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
>   ---
>   To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> software.com/read/my_forums/
>   or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>   with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> 
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Jeff Steward]

Cisco switches are web scale...

-Jeff

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Andrew S. Baker  wrote:

> ROFL!  I can see it now.
>
> *ASB*
> * *
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
> wrote:
>
>> It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
>>
>> -sc
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
>> > To: NT System Admin Issues
>> > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare <
>> scaes...@caesare.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a "better" switch for
>> > >> the money, and their support is better... then why aren't they the
>> market
>> > leader?
>> > >
>> > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger sales vs.
>> quality".
>> >
>> >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
>> >
>> > -- Ben
>> >
>>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Andrew S. Baker]

ROFL!  I can see it now.

*ASB*
* *
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Steven M. Caesare wrote:

> It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...
>
> -sc
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
> > To: NT System Admin Issues
> > Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare  >
> > wrote:
> > >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a "better" switch for
> > >> the money, and their support is better... then why aren't they the
> market
> > leader?
> > >
> > > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger sales vs.
> quality".
> >
> >   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
> >
> > -- Ben
> >
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Andrew S. Baker]

LOL

*ASB*
* *
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Ben Scott  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
> wrote:
> >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a “better” switch for the
> >> money, and their support is better… then why aren’t they the market
> leader?
> >
> > This is a flawed argument. See: “McDonalds hamburger sales vs. quality”.
>
>   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
>
> -- Ben
>
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Ben Scott]

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
>> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a “better” switch for the
>> money, and their support is better… then why aren’t they the market leader?
>
> This is a flawed argument. See: “McDonalds hamburger sales vs. quality”.

  McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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RE: RE: Switch opinions

[Steven M. Caesare]

It may be time to make a Cisco vs. HP animated movie...

-sc

> -Original Message-
> From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 8:55 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions
> 
> On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare 
> wrote:
> >> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a "better" switch for
> >> the money, and their support is better... then why aren't they the market
> leader?
> >
> > This is a flawed argument. See: "McDonalds hamburger sales vs. quality".
> 
>   McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.
> 
> -- Ben
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
> <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-
> software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin


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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Ben Scott]

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Steven M. Caesare  wrote:
>> How is this not relevant?  If HP truly makes a “better” switch for the
>> money, and their support is better… then why aren’t they the market leader?
>
> This is a flawed argument. See: “McDonalds hamburger sales vs. quality”.

  McDonald's hamburgers are web scale.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: Switch opinions

[Ben Scott]

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 2:41 AM, Rohyans, Aaron  wrote:
> As compared to HP’s “Clustering” which allows you to manage a stack of up
> to 16 switches via one IP address *individually* through the master switch
> (which is manually elected).

  HP's current stuff (going back at least to 2005) is called
"stacking", not "clustering".  You do have to manually designate the
"commander" (master), but given that their stacking doesn't use
special cables, I think that's fair (would you want every switch you
put on a network automatically turning themselves into a stack?).
Once you've designated a commander, you can configure it to auto-grab
members.  You can hot add/remove members.

> Each switch is its own unit with individual
> configuration and provisioning – including VLANs, software, etc.

  This is correct.  Given how diverse stack members can be, I think
that's unavoidable.  You can't run the same software image on
completely different models/generations for Cisco, can you?

> Connections are via ‘uplinks’ to other switches, which rely on STP to manage
> stack resiliency.

  Yes.  You don't need special cables or modules or protocols; it's
standard networking, with standard link aggregation and control.  This
means your stack is as flexible as your network; your "stack" can
actually be quite physically separated.  You can even put non-HP
switches in-between your HP stack members.

> Mixing 10/100 w/ GigaE switches in a cluster is not
> possible…. At least, not that I’m aware of.

  It is absolutely possible.  You can also mix several generations and
configurations (e.g., 4000M with a 2810) in a single stack.

> …As compared to HP ProCurve’s Buffers/Chipsets which are based on Broadcom’s
> latest generation of ASIC.

  Citation needed.  HP makes their own ASICs as far as I know; they
even have a brand name, "ProVision".

>  It is widely known that these chipsets have an
> inherent flaw (referred to as N+1 buffer overflowing)

http://www.google.com/search?q=+%22N%2B1+buffer+overflowing%22

http://www.google.com/search?q=+%22N%2B1+buffer+overflow%22

  No matches for either.  If it's so widely known, you would think
there would be mention of it *somewhere* on the Internet.

> o   Voice VLAN… Voice traffic can be shielded from data traffic and
> broadcast storms (this feature exists in ProCurve switches, but for sake of
> argument, I’m including it here)

  Just for the sake of argument, I'll point out that we're doing this
on our ProCurve's right now.

> o   Granular QoS… QoS allowing you to map/tag (and even ‘re-tag’) specific
> traffic to specific queues… prioritize buffers/system resources for
> servicing voice traffic...

  Check.  Doing that now.

> Not to mention advanced queuing/congestion
> avoidance algorithms that take network efficiency down to the port level
> (alleviating upstream routers)…

  I can certainly configure QoS on per-port basis.

> Shaped Round Robin queuing (servicing
> traffic buffers proportionally to administratively defined weights while
> “buffering” traffic in order to achieve more accurate line-rate), and
> Weighted Random Early Detection (TCP congestion avoidance by dropping
> packets at pre-defined thresholds so as to alleviate TCP Synchronization).

  I'll admit you're over my head here.  I don't know if that's possible or not.

> I can even go so far as to protect the Control-Plane of the switch through
> QoS ...

  Check.  Configure the management VLAN with highest priority.

> Modular QoS… using the techniques described above, I am no longer
> limited to applying a “global” QoS policy to the switch (as I am with HP
> switches).  Policies can be defined per-port or per traffic class… thus
> servicing different ports/traffic using different thresholds/queues/etc.

  The ProCurve command would be something like:

interface 5 qos priority 3

> ... Cisco-approved best practice QoS templates for converged network
> solutions ..

  Bingo!  (As in, "buzzword bingo".)

> SmartPorts – offer Cisco switches the ability to identify IP Phones/PCs
> attached to a single access port and dynamically configure themselves as a
> trunk port – providing for features such as the Voice VLAN and 802.1p based
> QoS (to the end-user… not just on switch-to-switch or switch-to-router
> uplinks – as is the case with HP switches).

  Our IP phones are plugged into our ProCurve switches.  The switches
use LLDP MED to configure the phones with their VLAN IDs and
priorities.  Voice traffic is given priority over data traffic from
the PCs daisy-chained off the phones.  There's no need to configure
the switch port as a "trunk port" because ProCurve's aren't limited by
Cisco's artificial "trunk port" concept; you can configure VLAN
behavior however you want, on each individual port.

> o   DHCP Snooping – ability of the switch to prevent rogue/unwanted DHCP
> servers from entering the network so as to thwart MiTM attacks, or general
> mischief caused by end-users.

"How to configure DHCP Snooping on

RE: Switch opinions

[Steven M. Caesare]

"Cisco offers some of the most granular and technologically advanced
features in their product lineup... "comparing" these two switches
requires a baseline for comparison. "

 

Please to be providing an example.

 

-sc

 

From: Rohyans, Aaron [mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:49 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

 

I think you're missing my point here... though I may not be clear
enough.  My point is one of support value, rather than support cost.  Is
HP cheaper than Cisco when it comes to support? ... yes, hands down.
Does HP provide the same level of support from a value perspective as
Cisco? ... I would have to say no.  Again, you get what you pay for.
You're not paying for high value support... thus, HP will gladly throw
new equipment your way and let you talk to a low-end tech all day long
if it'll make you happy.  It's worth it to them.  Cisco, on the other
hand, takes a different approach... you pay for support, but have access
to a large pool of technical resources when things go awry... even
access to the developers themselves.  Keep in mind also that Cisco
offers one of the best online documentation systems of any manufacturer
in the world... becoming familiar with Cisco products is not hard... and
it's free.

 

As to the price difference... we could argue features all day long...
but how do you define "comparable" switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet
switches and both operate at 10/100/1000Gb... and if that's all you're
after, then you shouldn't be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the
most granular and technologically advanced features in their product
lineup... "comparing" these two switches requires a baseline for
comparison.  To some, Cisco's "cheap" in terms of what you get for the
cost.  To others they're ungodly expensive, but those "others" typically
aren't concerned with the added features that you get with Cisco... thus
HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for that matter.

 

HP is probably lower in overall device failures... but they have less
than 20% of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco's 70%, that
would make sense.  I'm not arguing the "quality" of HP/Cisco switches
here.  You're right, both are rock solid!

 

Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer

CCIE #21945

DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245

Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com
http://www.dpsciences.com/

"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the
hacker as a small child before he invents the virus..."

"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read
binary, and those who can't"

 

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Switch opinions

 

>>It's a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support
on the product line.

...

>>That's not a selling point IMO.  Free support?

 

Perhaps in your view, Mr. MoneyBags, but getting a comparable product
for with better priced support is of value to many people.

 

And HP can afford to offer free support because they don't appear to
incur a great deal of expense dealing with the hardware they're selling.
That's their choice -- it's not a gimmick.

 

I have worked in more places sporting Cisco gear than HP networking gear
(probably 4-1), but my experiences with both have been very good.  HP is
ahead (lower) when it comes to the percentage of device failures, but
that's not as telling as it might seem, because the Cisco gear was
older. 

 

The point, though, is that there is no discernible difference for me in
the quality of the Cisco switches vs the HP ProCurve switches.  None.
Both are solid, quality devices backed by strong technology companies.
Given that point, why should I pay more for stuff that JUST WORKS, when
I don't have to?  My technology budget needs to cover lots and lots of
things, not just switches and routers, so I need to be prudent with
those dollars.

 

If you look at the TCO for networking equipment, HP comes out ahead in
many ways for many size organizations over Cisco.  If it weren't for the
fact that ripping and replacing an entire network is fraught with peril
(and simply not a good use of time/money if things are working), then I
would very often ditch Cisco switches for HP ProCurve on the 5-year TCO
alone.

 

And I'm sure I'm not alone on that point.   This doesn't mean that I
think that Cisco is bad.  But it does mean that I think that the price
differential of their equipment over HP buys you no material advantage.

 

ASB (My XeeSM Profile) <http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker>  
Exploiting Techno

Re: Switch opinions

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Rohyans, Aaron
 wrote:
>>> the odds of their gear failing like this are slim
>>> unless due to a defect in production…
>>
>> …If Cisco knows that, why does Cisco exclude fans and power supplies
>> from their warranty?
>
> Because it unnecessarily costs them money in the long run.

  So... the odds of it happening are slim, but it unnecessarily costs
them money.

>> Equivocate all you want -- HP's got the better warranty.”
>
> I don’t think I ever “equivocated” that Cisco had a better warranty.

  No, but you seemed pretty intent that Cisco's was just as good, with
statements like:

  Just that both offered “lifetime” warranties.  If that’s all the OP is 
 after, then he’ll have just that.

> ... why do servers get replaced every 3-4-5-6 years?

  Because that's the lifecycle that computer equipment (and, more
significantly, operating system software) has.  But for the third time
now, we're not talking servers, we're talking network gear.   You keep
bringing up servers.   Why?

> It’s lame because people always want to yell from the
> rooftops about how HP’s ProCurve switches are S much better of a
> product, yet no one can come up with concrete numbers of truly how much
> better they are and why.  When asked, it’s simply … “Well they have a better
> warranty and free support.”  Big freakin’ deal.

  So, the reason you like Cisco better is support, but when HP offers
support for no additional cost, it's not a big deal.  ???

  I think ProCurve provides better value than Cisco's stuff does.  Is
Cisco's stuff crap?   No, it's sophisticated and works well.  But *the
same goes for ProCurve*, at significantly lower cost.

> Seriously… the best HP can
> do to prove how much better they are than Cisco is to show that their
> warranty is better?

  The product is equivalent in all other relevant ways, and has a
better warranty and support package.  Yes, that makes it a better
value.

>> “…The cost of support is included in the cost of the product.  It's
>> not "free".  There was a time when if you bought something, customer
>> service came with it.  You didn't have to pay extra just to get a
>> company to stand behind their product.  HP has largely gotten away
>> from that, unfortunately, but their networking division still holds to
>> it.”
>
> Wait… it’s not free?  Now I’m confused.

  "Free" was your term, not mine.

> For the last time… I’m not arguing that HP doesn’t have good support ...

  Really?  Then what was your intent with statements like these:

>>> HP will gladly throw new equipment your way and let you talk to a low-end 
>>> tech all day long if it’ll make you happy

 what kind of “brainchild” individuals are manning the TAC?

>> “…So, I believe what you're saying is: What one division is doing has
>> nothing to do with another division.  Hmmm, that  sounds familiar...”
>
> What?  I didn’t come up with that logic… it was presented to me.

  Go back, read that again, then read the exchange immediately above it.

>> “…67% and dropping[2].
>
> …OK… an extra 5% because HP acquired 3Com I suppose?

  Um, no.  If there are 100 apples to go around, and I have 67 of
them, you have 10 of them, and Bob has 1, and Bob gives you his apple,
I still have 67 apples.

>> They've been making Ethernet gear for decades.  They design and build
>> their own switch ASICs.   HP claimed to be the second-largest
>> switch vendor in 2008, and to be growing more than three times as fast as
>> the rest of the industry[3].  Then, of course, they bought 3Com -- who
>> literally *invented* the commercial Ethernet market.  So they've got
>> credentials, and they're in a position to know what they're doing.
>
> No doubt… not sure when/if I argued against this?

  When you asked:

>>> And what is “extensive” layer 2 knowledge?

  That was when/if.

> Fine… they’ll ship overnight, and their terms are better.  Never argued
> that.

  Um:

>>> HP is simply taking worst-case verbiage from Cisco and
>>> turning it around to show you how much better they are... err, aren’t.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Don Ely]

Will I get it back?  I like to throw stones in a glass house...

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:14 PM, William Robbins wrote:

> Can I borrow your rock?  I need to throw it at someone.
>
>  - WJR
>
>
>  On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 16:50, Don Ely  wrote:
>
>> My rock is shinier than your rock  Neener neener neener
>>
>>
>>  On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Andrew S. Baker wrote:
>>
>>>  Three points:
>>>
>>> - Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is
>>> somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support
>>> contact.  (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)
>>>
>>> - I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not
>>> make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been
>>> skewed by market share.
>>>
>>> - Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide
>>> some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring
>>> costs our complexity that negate the cost differential.
>>>
>>> You've already  agreed with the equality of quality.
>>>
>>> These are all part of the value proposition.
>>>
>>> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker <http://xeesm.com/AndrewBaker>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Motorola Droid
>>>
>>>  On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough.
>>> My point is one of support *value*, rather than support *cost*.  Is HP
>>> cheaper than Cisco when it comes to support? … yes, hands down.  Does HP
>>> provide the same level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? … I
>>> would have to say no.  Again, *you get what you pay for*.  You’re not
>>> paying for high value support… thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your
>>> way and let you talk to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you
>>> happy.  It’s worth it to them.  Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different
>>> approach… you pay for support, but have access to a large pool of technical
>>> resources when things go awry… even access to the developers themselves.
>>> Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one of the best online documentation
>>> systems of any manufacturer in the world… becoming familiar with Cisco
>>> products is not hard… and it’s free.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but how
>>> do you define “comparable” switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches and
>>> both operate at 10/100/1000Gb… and if that’s all you’re after, then you
>>> shouldn’t be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and
>>> technologically advanced features in their product lineup… “comparing” these
>>> two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco’s “cheap”
>>> in terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they’re ungodly expensive,
>>> but those “others” typically aren’t concerned with the added features that
>>> you get with Cisco… thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for
>>> that matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than
>>> 20% of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would make
>>> sense.  *I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here*.
>>> You’re right, both are rock solid!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Aaron T. Rohyans
>>> Senior Network Engineer
>>>
>>> CCIE #21945
>>>
>>> DPSciences Corporation
>>> 7400 N. Shadeland...
>>>
>>>   *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>>> Subject: Re: Switch opinions
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>It’s a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on
>>> the product line.
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.c...
>>>
>>>~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>>

Re: RE: Switch opinions

[William Robbins]

Can I borrow your rock?  I need to throw it at someone.

 - WJR


On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 16:50, Don Ely  wrote:

> My rock is shinier than your rock  Neener neener neener
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Andrew S. Baker wrote:
>
>> Three points:
>>
>> - Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is
>> somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support
>> contact.  (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)
>>
>> - I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not
>> make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been
>> skewed by market share.
>>
>> - Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide
>> some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring
>> costs our complexity that negate the cost differential.
>>
>> You've already  agreed with the equality of quality.
>>
>> These are all part of the value proposition.
>>
>> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker <http://xeesm.com/AndrewBaker>
>>
>> Sent from my Motorola Droid
>>
>>  On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough.
>> My point is one of support *value*, rather than support *cost*.  Is HP
>> cheaper than Cisco when it comes to support? … yes, hands down.  Does HP
>> provide the same level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? … I
>> would have to say no.  Again, *you get what you pay for*.  You’re not
>> paying for high value support… thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your
>> way and let you talk to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you
>> happy.  It’s worth it to them.  Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different
>> approach… you pay for support, but have access to a large pool of technical
>> resources when things go awry… even access to the developers themselves.
>> Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one of the best online documentation
>> systems of any manufacturer in the world… becoming familiar with Cisco
>> products is not hard… and it’s free.
>>
>>
>>
>> As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but how
>> do you define “comparable” switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches and
>> both operate at 10/100/1000Gb… and if that’s all you’re after, then you
>> shouldn’t be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and
>> technologically advanced features in their product lineup… “comparing” these
>> two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco’s “cheap”
>> in terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they’re ungodly expensive,
>> but those “others” typically aren’t concerned with the added features that
>> you get with Cisco… thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for
>> that matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than
>> 20% of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would make
>> sense.  *I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here*.
>> You’re right, both are rock solid!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Aaron T. Rohyans
>> Senior Network Engineer
>>
>> CCIE #21945
>>
>> DPSciences Corporation
>> 7400 N. Shadeland...
>>
>>  *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM
>>
>>
>> To: NT System Admin Issues
>> Subject: Re: Switch opinions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>It’s a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on
>> the product line.
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.c...
>>
>>   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
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http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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RE: Switch opinions

[Rohyans, Aaron]

ey've been making Ethernet gear for decades.  They design and build their 
own switch ASICs.   HP claimed to be the second-largest

switch vendor in 2008, and to be growing more than three times as fast as the 
rest of the industry[3].  Then, of course, they bought 3Com -- who literally 
*invented* the commercial Ethernet market.  So they've got credentials, and 
they're in a position to know what they're doing.



[3] http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2008/080527a.html";



No doubt... not sure when/if I argued against this?  HP has a great product... 
and they certainly have the credentials.  I still think Cisco has a better 
(though more expensive) product.  Is this just shared as an FYI, or was there a 
point here?



"...I doubt Cisco really has *that* much of an edge in knowledge.  So

now we're even: We both doubt the other's vague, unsourced,

unquantifiable statements."



Sure... sounds good.  Agree to disagree.



"...You asked about liability; I answered.  If the sun explodes, you'll

never get your replacement product.  But yes, they really do promise

to ship overnight, which Cisco does not.  In writing."



"...Let me get this straight: HP quotes Cisco's own contract, and does

better, but that... doesn't mean they're better?"



Fine... they'll ship overnight, and their terms are better.  Never argued that. 
 I'm only arguing that HP is taking the fine print about a worst case scenario 
on the RMA process and showing how they do it better - when in fact they are 
bound by that *same* worst case verbiage... they just don't come out and say 
it.  Kudos to them, but I just don't think it's a major selling point.  Your 
mileage may vary.  Shame on Cisco, I suppose.



"...I had a customer whose 10/100 managed repeater finally died. HP

shipped a 10/100 managed switch."



Oh OK... argument resolved then.



"...Others on this list have reported similar stories."



Let them speak...



"...Doubt all you want, that's what they've done.  But I guess you'd

rather deny facts than consider the possibility that Cisco is

overpriced."



Hah!  What?  When did I ever "deny facts" that Cisco is overpriced?  They ARE 
some of the most over-priced products out there.  But they ARE also some of the 
best products out there.



"...Interesting.  Three paragraphs up, you're claiming that HP citing

Cisco's warranty *in writing* isn't a fair comparison.  But now you

want something in writing."



What?  Not quite sure what you're getting at here... But yes... since this 
warranty is apparently the end-all-be-all warranty of warranties, and HP will 
give you "something better" when your product dies, where *in writing* does it 
say this?



"...But anyway: "HP will, at its option, repair or replace the affected

products."  Page 11 of our ProCurve license-and-warranty booklet, HP

P/N 5990-8862.  They don't promise something better, but they promise

to repair or *replace*.  In writing."



Exactly... they don't promise to replace with something better.  Just that 
they'll repair/replace "at their option."  Interesting verbiage don't you 
think?  I thought hands down you just got a new one when yours didn't work?



Aaron T. Rohyans

Senior Network Engineer

CCIE #21945

DPSciences Corporation

7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245

Indianapolis, IN 46250

Office:  (317) 348-0099

Fax:   (317) 849-7134

arohy...@dpsciences.com

http://www.dpsciences.com/

"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the hacker 
as a small child before he invents the virus..."

"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, and 
those who can't"



-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 6:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Switch opinions



On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Rohyans, Aaron  wrote:

> In 15 years of working with this stuff, I can count on one hand how many fan

> failures I've had in Cisco gear...



  Well, from what you say, you change out your gear relatively often,

since that's part of your "technology and depreciation cycle".  Or so

you argued earlier.  So how it makes sense that you wouldn't see

failures that might happen after a longer period of time.



> My point is that HP knows this... as does Cisco... the odds

> of their gear failing like this are slim unless due to a defect in

> production...



  If Cisco knows that, why does Cisco exclude fans and power supplies

from their warranty?



  Equivocate all you want -- HP's got the better warranty.



>> "...In my experience, in many organizations, network equipment has a

>> 

Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Andrew S. Baker]

   (317) 849-7134
> *arohy...@dpsciences.com* *
> *http://www.dpsciences.com/
>
> *"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the
> hacker as a small child before he invents the virus..."*
>
> *"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary,
> and those who can't"***
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:48 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: RE: Switch opinions
>
>
>
> Three points:
>
> - Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is
> somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support
> contact.  (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)
>
> - I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not
> make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been
> skewed by market share.
>
> - Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide
> some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring
> costs or complexity that negate the cost differential.
>
> You've already  agreed with the equality of quality.
>
> These are all part of the value proposition.
>
> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker
>
> Sent from my Motorola Droid
>
> On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron"  wrote:
>
> I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough.  My
> point is one of support *value*, rather than support *cost*.  Is HP
> cheaper than Cisco when it comes to support? … yes, hands down.  Does HP
> provide the same level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? … I
> would have to say no.  Again, *you get what you pay for*.  You’re not
> paying for high value support… thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your
> way and let you talk to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you
> happy.  It’s worth it to them.  Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different
> approach… you pay for support, but have access to a large pool of technical
> resources when things go awry… even access to the developers themselves.
> Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one of the best online documentation
> systems of any manufacturer in the world… becoming familiar with Cisco
> products is not hard… and it’s free.
>
>
>
> As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but how
> do you define “comparable” switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches and
> both operate at 10/100/1000Gb… and if that’s all you’re after, then you
> shouldn’t be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and
> technologically advanced features in their product lineup… “comparing” these
> two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco’s “cheap”
> in terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they’re ungodly expensive,
> but those “others” typically aren’t concerned with the added features that
> you get with Cisco… thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for
> that matter.
>
>
>
> HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than
> 20% of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would make
> sense.  *I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here*.  You’re
> right, both are rock solid!
>
>
>
>
>
> Aaron T. Rohyans
> Senior Network Engineer
>
> CCIE #21945
>
> DPSciences Corporation
> 7400 N. Shadeland...
>
> *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM
>
>
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Switch opinions
>
>
>
>
>
> >>It’s a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on
> the product line.
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

RE: RE: Switch opinions

[Rohyans, Aaron]

Wow... how long did it take you to write this on a Droid?  Here goes...

Three points:

- Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is somehow 
inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support contact.  (I've 
spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)

What? This "point" is like asking someone to "substantiate" why darkness is 
"dark"... is it dark, or just the absence of light?  Is cold actually "cold" or 
just the absence of heat?  It's just general opinion in the industry... and 
widely accepted at that... Google it.  Why do you think HP is where it is and 
hasn't passed up Cisco long ago in this market?  Especially since (supposedly) 
they've been making switches longer.

- I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not make 
the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been skewed by 
market share.

Fair enough...

- Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide some 
functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring costs our 
complexity that negate the cost differential.

That's a pretty complex sentence there chief... build me a car that's 
equivalent to a Ferrari without incurring costs "our" complexity that negate 
the cost differential.  Impossible?  That's what makes the cost differential... 
the functionality (granular/modular QoS, Advanced Security, etc.) that an HP 
ProCurve cannot accomplish.

This debate is pointless...
Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer
CCIE #21945
DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245
Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com<mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>
http://www.dpsciences.com/
"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the hacker 
as a small child before he invents the virus..."
"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, and 
those who can't"

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:48 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: RE: Switch opinions


Three points:

- Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is somehow 
inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support contact.  (I've 
spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)

- I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not make 
the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been skewed by 
market share.

- Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide some 
functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring costs our 
complexity that negate the cost differential.

You've already  agreed with the equality of quality.

These are all part of the value proposition.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker

Sent from my Motorola Droid
On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron" 
mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>> wrote:
I think you're missing my point here... though I may not be clear enough.  My 
point is one of support value, rather than support cost.  Is HP cheaper than 
Cisco when it comes to support? ... yes, hands down.  Does HP provide the same 
level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? ... I would have to say no. 
 Again, you get what you pay for.  You're not paying for high value support... 
thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your way and let you talk to a low-end 
tech all day long if it'll make you happy.  It's worth it to them.  Cisco, on 
the other hand, takes a different approach... you pay for support, but have 
access to a large pool of technical resources when things go awry... even 
access to the developers themselves.  Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one 
of the best online documentation systems of any manufacturer in the world... 
becoming familiar with Cisco products is not hard... and it's free.

As to the price difference... we could argue features all day long... but how 
do you define "comparable" switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches and both 
operate at 10/100/1000Gb... and if that's all you're after, then you shouldn't 
be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and 
technologically advanced features in their product lineup... "comparing" these 
two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco's "cheap" in 
terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they're ungodly expensive, but 
those "others" typically aren't concerned with the added features that you get 
with Cisco... thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for that matter.

HP is probably lower in overall device failures... but they have less than 20% 
of the switching market share.  Comp

Re: Switch opinions

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Rohyans, Aaron  wrote:
> I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough.  My
> point is one of support value, rather than support cost.

  I think that's the same argument the HP fans have been making: Cisco
charges considerably more money, but doesn't give you proportionally
more product and support.

  To illustrate the concept with a made-up example: If the Cisco
product costs 150% more than the equivalent ProCurve product, but
Cisco's product is only 10% better, it's a bad value proposition.
(Again, numbers are completely made up; I'm illustrating the concept.)

> Does HP provide the same level of support from a value perspective
> as Cisco? … I would have to say no.

  I would have to say yes.  (My ad hominem is better than your ad hominem!)

> ... thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your way and let you talk
> to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you happy.

  You keep disparaging ProCurve's product support people.  Why?  Do
you have any basis for that attitude?

> Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different approach… you pay for
> support, but have access to a large pool of technical resources when things
> go awry… even access to the developers themselves.

  I've got access to support, including escalation (in theory) to
engineering, although I've never had to go that far.  I have gotten
firmware releases not yet in general availability.  I have had them
examine debug dumps.  No complaints.

> Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one of the best online
> documentation systems of any manufacturer in the world…

  Unless you're looking for something under last year's name...

>... becoming familiar with Cisco products is not
> hard… and it’s free.

  Ditto for HP's products.  All their documentation is posted online,
they've got online forums and a knowledge base, etc., etc.  And it's
actually *easier* to become familiar with HP's products, since they
don't cost as much to get hands on.

> As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but how do
> you define “comparable” switches?

  Indeed.  How *do* *you* define these special  features Cisco has
which HP does not?  Come on, you're saying Cisco has got "the most
granular and technologically advanced features".  That sounds very
specific.  So what are you referring to?

> HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than 20%
> of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would make
> sense.

  If percentage of market share is the only factor in determining what
is better/more suited, then clearly 8-bit microprocessors are much
better than 32- or 64-bit microprocessors.

>  I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here.

  Okay, so far, we've established ProCurve is equivalent equipment
quality, better warranty, and a lower price.  We're now arguing about
features and quality of support, but specifics are notably absent.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: Switch opinions

[Ben Scott]

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Rohyans, Aaron  wrote:
> In 15 years of working with this stuff, I can count on one hand how many fan
> failures I’ve had in Cisco gear…

  Well, from what you say, you change out your gear relatively often,
since that's part of your "technology and depreciation cycle".  Or so
you argued earlier.  So how it makes sense that you wouldn't see
failures that might happen after a longer period of time.

> My point is that HP knows this… as does Cisco… the odds
> of their gear failing like this are slim unless due to a defect in
> production…

  If Cisco knows that, why does Cisco exclude fans and power supplies
from their warranty?

  Equivocate all you want -- HP's got the better warranty.

>> “…In my experience, in many organizations, network equipment has a
>> much longer lifecycle than computers.  A great many places *still*
>> don't need anything more than 100 megabit to the desktop.  So a 10-15
>> year usable lifetime isn't unrealistic.  Obviously some shops need to
>> upgrade more often than that, but many don't.
>>
>>  I like that with ProCurve, I get to decide when my equipment is
>> obsolete; HP doesn't do it for me.”
>
> How is Cisco forcing you to change out your gear just because a product goes
> EoL?

  They aren't, but you are suggesting that if equipment is 5 years
past end-of-life, then one shouldn't be using the equipment any more.
Perhaps that's just your opinion, and not Cisco's mindset.  Fair
enough.  But if I'm still using that equipment, Cisco won't support it
--  HP will.

> “…What does that have to do with what switch I should buy?”
>
> It’s a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on the
> product line.

  Offering a better warranty is a lame attempt to acquire market
share?  I'm perplexed.  You apparently think offering better support
is "lame". I mean, how *dare* they offer better support!
The nerve!Does that also mean that if HP is  building a
better product, that is a "lame attempt to acquire market share"?

> Free support?  That sounds cheap to me… like
> consumer grade (NOTE that I am *not* calling HP ProCurve consumer grade).

  The cost of support is included in the cost of the product.  It's
not "free".  There was a time when if you bought something, customer
service came with it.  You didn't have to pay extra just to get a
company to stand behind their product.  HP has largely gotten away
from that, unfortunately, but their networking division still holds to
it.

> If I don’t have to pay for it, what kind of “brainchild” individuals are
> manning the TAC?

 I've found the ProCurve front line support techs to by quite
knowledgeable, cluefull,
willing and able to help.  How often have you called HP support?

> Why not offer free lifetime support/replacement on
> PCs/Servers/Monitors/etc?

  Again: What one division is doing has nothing to do with another division.

>> “…By that logic: Cisco owns LinkSys, LinkSys's stuff is cheap consumer
>> crap, therefore, all of Cisco's stuff must be cheap consumer crap.”
>
> Yep… that’s the exact logic I was trying get across.  A subordinate company
> sells junk, so that makes the parent company product junk.  Where in my
> statement did you draw that conclusion?  Seriously?

  So, I believe what you're saying is: What one division is doing has
nothing to do with another division.  Hmmm, that  sounds familiar...

> Again, you get what you pay for…  err, not pay for.

  I've found that while paying too little generally means you get
less, paying more doesn't always mean you get proportionally more.

> “… I believe HP has been making switches longer than Cisco has.”
>
> HP’s definitely been around longer than Cisco, yes… but making switches
> longer, no.

  Cisco purchased their switching division in 1993; it used to be
Crescendo[1].  I believe HP has been making network switches/repeaters
longer than that, although I don't have a source handy.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescendo_Communications

> Unless you count the “old” days where HP marketed their
> “Ethertwist” line…

  Why shouldn't we count that?  It was an HP product line.  It
included network switches.  Why don't those switches count?

> ... but even then it was geared around networked devices… not
> networking devices.

  They made network switches.  I don't  know what you consider
"networking devices", but I count switches.

> What do you consider “huge”?  Cisco owns 72.3% of the Ethernet Switching
> market share…

  67% and dropping[2].

[2] http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/022210-ethernet-switch-market.html

> And what is “extensive” layer 2 knowledge?

  They've been making Ethernet gear for decades.  They design and
build their own switch ASICs.   HP claimed to be the second-largest
switch vendor in 2008, and to be growing more than three times as fast
as the rest of the industry[3].  Then, of course, they bought 3Com --
who literally *invented* the commercial Ethernet market.  So they've
got credentia

Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Don Ely]

My rock is shinier than your rock  Neener neener neener

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Andrew S. Baker  wrote:

> Three points:
>
> - Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is
> somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support
> contact.  (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)
>
> - I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not
> make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been
> skewed by market share.
>
> - Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide
> some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring
> costs our complexity that negate the cost differential.
>
> You've already  agreed with the equality of quality.
>
> These are all part of the value proposition.
>
> -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker <http://xeesm.com/AndrewBaker>
>
> Sent from my Motorola Droid
>
>  On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron" 
> wrote:
>
> I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough.  My
> point is one of support *value*, rather than support *cost*.  Is HP
> cheaper than Cisco when it comes to support? … yes, hands down.  Does HP
> provide the same level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? … I
> would have to say no.  Again, *you get what you pay for*.  You’re not
> paying for high value support… thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your
> way and let you talk to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you
> happy.  It’s worth it to them.  Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different
> approach… you pay for support, but have access to a large pool of technical
> resources when things go awry… even access to the developers themselves.
> Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one of the best online documentation
> systems of any manufacturer in the world… becoming familiar with Cisco
> products is not hard… and it’s free.
>
>
>
> As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but how
> do you define “comparable” switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches and
> both operate at 10/100/1000Gb… and if that’s all you’re after, then you
> shouldn’t be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and
> technologically advanced features in their product lineup… “comparing” these
> two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco’s “cheap”
> in terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they’re ungodly expensive,
> but those “others” typically aren’t concerned with the added features that
> you get with Cisco… thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for
> that matter.
>
>
>
> HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than
> 20% of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would make
> sense.  *I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here*.  You’re
> right, both are rock solid!
>
>
>
>
>
> Aaron T. Rohyans
> Senior Network Engineer
>
> CCIE #21945
>
> DPSciences Corporation
> 7400 N. Shadeland...
>
>  *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM
>
>
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: Switch opinions
>
>
>
>
>
> >>It’s a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on
> the product line.
>
> .
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.c...
>
>   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ---
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> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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Re: RE: Switch opinions

[Andrew S. Baker]

Three points:

- Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is
somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support
contact.  (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)

- I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*.  I did not
make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been
skewed by market share.

- Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide
some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring
costs our complexity that negate the cost differential.

You've already  agreed with the equality of quality.

These are all part of the value proposition.

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker

Sent from my Motorola Droid

On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron"  wrote:

I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough.  My
point is one of support *value*, rather than support *cost*.  Is HP cheaper
than Cisco when it comes to support? … yes, hands down.  Does HP provide the
same level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? … I would have to
say no.  Again, *you get what you pay for*.  You’re not paying for high
value support… thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your way and let you
talk to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you happy.  It’s worth it
to them.  Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different approach… you pay for
support, but have access to a large pool of technical resources when things
go awry… even access to the developers themselves.  Keep in mind also that
Cisco offers one of the best online documentation systems of any
manufacturer in the world… becoming familiar with Cisco products is not
hard… and it’s free.



As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but how do
you define “comparable” switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches and both
operate at 10/100/1000Gb… and if that’s all you’re after, then you shouldn’t
be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and
technologically advanced features in their product lineup… “comparing” these
two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco’s “cheap”
in terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they’re ungodly expensive,
but those “others” typically aren’t concerned with the added features that
you get with Cisco… thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for
that matter.



HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than 20%
of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would make
sense.  *I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here*.  You’re
right, both are rock solid!





Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer

CCIE #21945

DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland...

*From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Switch opinions





>>It’s a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on
the product line.

.



~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.c...

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RE: Switch opinions

[Rohyans, Aaron]

I think you're missing my point here... though I may not be clear enough.  My 
point is one of support value, rather than support cost.  Is HP cheaper than 
Cisco when it comes to support? ... yes, hands down.  Does HP provide the same 
level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? ... I would have to say no. 
 Again, you get what you pay for.  You're not paying for high value support... 
thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your way and let you talk to a low-end 
tech all day long if it'll make you happy.  It's worth it to them.  Cisco, on 
the other hand, takes a different approach... you pay for support, but have 
access to a large pool of technical resources when things go awry... even 
access to the developers themselves.  Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one 
of the best online documentation systems of any manufacturer in the world... 
becoming familiar with Cisco products is not hard... and it's free.

As to the price difference... we could argue features all day long... but how 
do you define "comparable" switches?  Yes, both are Ethernet switches and both 
operate at 10/100/1000Gb... and if that's all you're after, then you shouldn't 
be looking at Cisco.  Cisco offers some of the most granular and 
technologically advanced features in their product lineup... "comparing" these 
two switches requires a baseline for comparison.  To some, Cisco's "cheap" in 
terms of what you get for the cost.  To others they're ungodly expensive, but 
those "others" typically aren't concerned with the added features that you get 
with Cisco... thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for that matter.

HP is probably lower in overall device failures... but they have less than 20% 
of the switching market share.  Compared to Cisco's 70%, that would make sense. 
 I'm not arguing the "quality" of HP/Cisco switches here.  You're right, both 
are rock solid!

Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer
CCIE #21945
DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245
Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com<mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>
http://www.dpsciences.com/
"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the hacker 
as a small child before he invents the virus..."
"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, and 
those who can't"

From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Switch opinions

>>It's a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on the 
>>product line.
...
>>That's not a selling point IMO.  Free support?

Perhaps in your view, Mr. MoneyBags, but getting a comparable product for with 
better priced support is of value to many people.

And HP can afford to offer free support because they don't appear to incur a 
great deal of expense dealing with the hardware they're selling.That's 
their choice -- it's not a gimmick.

I have worked in more places sporting Cisco gear than HP networking gear 
(probably 4-1), but my experiences with both have been very good.  HP is ahead 
(lower) when it comes to the percentage of device failures, but that's not as 
telling as it might seem, because the Cisco gear was older.

The point, though, is that there is no discernible difference for me in the 
quality of the Cisco switches vs the HP ProCurve switches.  None.  Both are 
solid, quality devices backed by strong technology companies.   Given that 
point, why should I pay more for stuff that JUST WORKS, when I don't have to?  
My technology budget needs to cover lots and lots of things, not just switches 
and routers, so I need to be prudent with those dollars.

If you look at the TCO for networking equipment, HP comes out ahead in many 
ways for many size organizations over Cisco.  If it weren't for the fact that 
ripping and replacing an entire network is fraught with peril (and simply not a 
good use of time/money if things are working), then I would very often ditch 
Cisco switches for HP ProCurve on the 5-year TCO alone.

And I'm sure I'm not alone on that point.   This doesn't mean that I think that 
Cisco is bad.  But it does mean that I think that the price differential of 
their equipment over HP buys you no material advantage.


ASB (My XeeSM Profile)<http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker>
Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Rohyans, Aaron 
mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>> wrote:
"...Well, if I have to replace a $2000 switch because a $1 fan failed,
quite a bit."

In 15 years of working with this stuff, I can count on one hand how many fan 
failures I've had in Cisco gear... and even HP 

Re: Switch opinions

[Andrew S. Baker]

ent on PCs/Servers/Monitors/etc?  Again, you get what you
> pay for…  err, not pay for.
>
>
>
> *“…By that logic: Cisco owns LinkSys, LinkSys's stuff is cheap consumer
> crap, therefore, all of Cisco's stuff must be cheap consumer crap.”*
>
> * *
>
> Yep… that’s the exact logic I was trying get across.  A subordinate company
> sells junk, so that makes the parent company product junk.  Where in my
> statement did you draw that conclusion?  Seriously?
>
>
>
> *“… I believe HP has been making switches longer than Cisco has.”  *
>
>
>
> HP’s definitely been around longer than Cisco, yes… but making switches
> longer, no.  Unless you count the “old” days where HP marketed their
> “Ethertwist” line… but even then it was geared around *networked* devices…
> not *networking* devices.
>
>
>
> *“…They certainly got a huge installed base, and have extensive layer two*
> *
>
> experience and knowledge.  If you're talking routers, yes, Cisco has a
> definite edge.  But we're talking switches.”*
>
> * *
>
> What do you consider “huge”?  Cisco owns 72.3% of the Ethernet Switching
> market share… that leaves 27.7% for HP, Juniper, Alcatel, Dell, etc.  And
> what is “extensive” layer 2 knowledge?  Helping you setup LACP and 802.1q?
> I’m not knocking on HP here, but I doubt they have the knowledge “at the
> ready” to tackle complex switching problems.  For the average everyday Joe…
> you’re probably good to go, but for many Enterprises (who demand that
> knowledge), you might want to think twice.
>
>
>
> *“…They do indeed promise immediate shipment via next day carrier.
> Strictly speaking, "delivery" is up to the carrier, I presume…”*
>
>
>
> Interesting… so theoretically, it could take say, up to 10 days to get your
> replacement product?  Again, HP is simply taking worst-case verbiage from
> Cisco and turning it around to show you how much better they are... err,
> aren’t.
>
> * *
>
> *“…In my experience, if HP doesn't have your part they'll ship you
> something
> better.”*
>
>
>
> Example? Somehow I doubt they’re going to ship you “something better” on a
> lot of their products.  Can you point me to where in their warranty that
> this is expressed?  Is this Christmas?
>
>
>
>
>
> *Aaron T. Rohyans*
> *Senior Network Engineer*
>
> *CCIE #21945***
>
> *DPSciences Corporation
> *7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245
>
> Indianapolis, IN 46250
> Office:  (317) 348-0099
> Fax:   (317) 849-7134
> *arohy...@dpsciences.com
> *http://www.dpsciences.com/
>
> *"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the
> hacker as a small child before he invents the virus..."*
>
> *"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary,
> and those who can't"***
>
>
>
> *From:* Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:31 PM
>
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* Re: Switch opinions
>
>
>
> Or even divisions of HP...
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Rohyans, Aaron 
> wrote:
> > Cisco doesn’t offer power supply or fan replacements in their
> > warranty… All HP is doing here is offering free brakes/tires with every
> car
> > purchased… big deal.  How many are we anticipating on replacing?  And in
> the
> > grand scheme of things, how much is this really going to cost you (or not
> > cost you)?
>
>  Well, if I have to replace a $2000 switch because a $1 fan failed,
> quite a bit.
>
>
> > Cisco only supports their product 5 years after EoL… Well, there’s
> > a reason the product went EoL… and more than likely, it’s had an already
> > extensive career in the network.
>
>  In my experience, in many organizations, network equipment has a
> much longer lifecycle than computers.  A great many places *still*
> don't need anything more than 100 megabit to the desktop.  So a 10-15
> year usable lifetime isn't unrealistic.  Obviously some shops need to
> upgrade more often than that, but many don't.
>
>  I like that with ProCurve, I get to decide when my equipment is
> obsolete; HP doesn't do it for me.
>
>
> > Cisco doesn’t offer free TAC support.  OK, but does HP offer free
> > support on all their products, or just ProCurve?
>
>  What does that have to do with what switch I should buy?
>
>  By that logic: Cisco owns LinkSys, LinkSys's stuff is cheap consumer
> crap, therefore, all of Cisco's stuff must be cheap consumer crap.
>
>
> > I can almost guarantee 

RE: Switch opinions

[Rohyans, Aaron]

ucts.  Can you point me to where in their warranty that this is 
expressed?  Is this Christmas?


Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer
CCIE #21945
DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245
Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com<mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>
http://www.dpsciences.com/
"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the hacker 
as a small child before he invents the virus..."
"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, and 
those who can't"

From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 1:31 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Switch opinions

Or even divisions of HP...
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Ben Scott 
mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Rohyans, Aaron 
mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>> wrote:
> Cisco doesn't offer power supply or fan replacements in their
> warranty... All HP is doing here is offering free brakes/tires with every car
> purchased... big deal.  How many are we anticipating on replacing?  And in the
> grand scheme of things, how much is this really going to cost you (or not
> cost you)?
 Well, if I have to replace a $2000 switch because a $1 fan failed,
quite a bit.

> Cisco only supports their product 5 years after EoL... Well, there's
> a reason the product went EoL... and more than likely, it's had an already
> extensive career in the network.
 In my experience, in many organizations, network equipment has a
much longer lifecycle than computers.  A great many places *still*
don't need anything more than 100 megabit to the desktop.  So a 10-15
year usable lifetime isn't unrealistic.  Obviously some shops need to
upgrade more often than that, but many don't.

 I like that with ProCurve, I get to decide when my equipment is
obsolete; HP doesn't do it for me.

> Cisco doesn't offer free TAC support.  OK, but does HP offer free
> support on all their products, or just ProCurve?
 What does that have to do with what switch I should buy?

 By that logic: Cisco owns LinkSys, LinkSys's stuff is cheap consumer
crap, therefore, all of Cisco's stuff must be cheap consumer crap.

> I can almost guarantee they don't see the types of issues Cisco
> sees, let alone do they have the technical depth that Cisco does in the
> TAC.  You get what you pay for - or don't pay for.
 I believe HP has been making switches longer than Cisco has.  They
certainly got a huge installed base, and have extensive layer two
experience and knowledge.  If you're talking routers, yes, Cisco has a
definite edge.  But we're talking switches.

> I highly doubt HP guarantees next day delivery on all RMA items... there's
> fine print there somewhere (or conveniently excluded).
 They do indeed promise immediate shipment via next day carrier.
Strictly speaking, "delivery" is up to the carrier, I presume.  In my
experience, if HP doesn't have your part they'll ship you something
better.

 Until recently, the *entire* ProCurve warranty statement was
(paraphrased), "HP guarantees the product against defects in materials
or manufacture for the lifetime of the product."  That's it.  Full
stop.  One sentence.  It's since grown come caveats for software and
GBIC modules, but it's still very short and straight-forward.  I wish
more companies would take the lesson.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

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Re: Switch opinions

[Richard Stovall]

+∞

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Jonathan Link wrote:

> Err...  should've been more precise.  I'll try again
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Jonathan Link wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  Until recently, the *entire* ProCurve warranty statement was
>>> (paraphrased), "HP guarantees the product against defects in materials
>>> or manufacture for the lifetime of the product."  That's it.  Full
>>> stop.  One sentence.  It's since grown come caveats for software and
>>> GBIC modules, but it's still very short and straight-forward.  I wish
>>> more companies would take the lesson.
>>>
>> Or even other divisions of HP.
>
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: Switch opinions

[Jonathan Link]

Err...  should've been more precise.  I'll try again

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Jonathan Link wrote:

>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:
>
>>
>>  Until recently, the *entire* ProCurve warranty statement was
>> (paraphrased), "HP guarantees the product against defects in materials
>> or manufacture for the lifetime of the product."  That's it.  Full
>> stop.  One sentence.  It's since grown come caveats for software and
>> GBIC modules, but it's still very short and straight-forward.  I wish
>> more companies would take the lesson.
>>
> Or even other divisions of HP.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: Switch opinions

[Jonathan Link]

Or even divisions of HP...

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Ben Scott  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Rohyans, Aaron 
> wrote:
> > Cisco doesn’t offer power supply or fan replacements in their
> > warranty… All HP is doing here is offering free brakes/tires with every
> car
> > purchased… big deal.  How many are we anticipating on replacing?  And in
> the
> > grand scheme of things, how much is this really going to cost you (or not
> > cost you)?
>
>  Well, if I have to replace a $2000 switch because a $1 fan failed,
> quite a bit.
>
> > Cisco only supports their product 5 years after EoL… Well, there’s
> > a reason the product went EoL… and more than likely, it’s had an already
> > extensive career in the network.
>
>  In my experience, in many organizations, network equipment has a
> much longer lifecycle than computers.  A great many places *still*
> don't need anything more than 100 megabit to the desktop.  So a 10-15
> year usable lifetime isn't unrealistic.  Obviously some shops need to
> upgrade more often than that, but many don't.
>
>  I like that with ProCurve, I get to decide when my equipment is
> obsolete; HP doesn't do it for me.
>
> > Cisco doesn’t offer free TAC support.  OK, but does HP offer free
> > support on all their products, or just ProCurve?
>
>  What does that have to do with what switch I should buy?
>
>  By that logic: Cisco owns LinkSys, LinkSys's stuff is cheap consumer
> crap, therefore, all of Cisco's stuff must be cheap consumer crap.
>
> > I can almost guarantee they don’t see the types of issues Cisco
> > sees, let alone do they have the technical depth that Cisco does in the
> > TAC.  You get what you pay for – or don’t pay for.
>
>  I believe HP has been making switches longer than Cisco has.  They
> certainly got a huge installed base, and have extensive layer two
> experience and knowledge.  If you're talking routers, yes, Cisco has a
> definite edge.  But we're talking switches.
>
> > I highly doubt HP guarantees next day delivery on all RMA items… there’s
> > fine print there somewhere (or conveniently excluded).
>
>  They do indeed promise immediate shipment via next day carrier.
> Strictly speaking, "delivery" is up to the carrier, I presume.  In my
> experience, if HP doesn't have your part they'll ship you something
> better.
>
>  Until recently, the *entire* ProCurve warranty statement was
> (paraphrased), "HP guarantees the product against defects in materials
> or manufacture for the lifetime of the product."  That's it.  Full
> stop.  One sentence.  It's since grown come caveats for software and
> GBIC modules, but it's still very short and straight-forward.  I wish
> more companies would take the lesson.
>
> -- Ben
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

Re: Switch opinions

[Ben Scott]

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Rohyans, Aaron  wrote:
> Cisco doesn’t offer power supply or fan replacements in their
> warranty… All HP is doing here is offering free brakes/tires with every car
> purchased… big deal.  How many are we anticipating on replacing?  And in the
> grand scheme of things, how much is this really going to cost you (or not
> cost you)?

  Well, if I have to replace a $2000 switch because a $1 fan failed,
quite a bit.

> Cisco only supports their product 5 years after EoL… Well, there’s
> a reason the product went EoL… and more than likely, it’s had an already
> extensive career in the network.

  In my experience, in many organizations, network equipment has a
much longer lifecycle than computers.  A great many places *still*
don't need anything more than 100 megabit to the desktop.  So a 10-15
year usable lifetime isn't unrealistic.  Obviously some shops need to
upgrade more often than that, but many don't.

  I like that with ProCurve, I get to decide when my equipment is
obsolete; HP doesn't do it for me.

> Cisco doesn’t offer free TAC support.  OK, but does HP offer free
> support on all their products, or just ProCurve?

  What does that have to do with what switch I should buy?

  By that logic: Cisco owns LinkSys, LinkSys's stuff is cheap consumer
crap, therefore, all of Cisco's stuff must be cheap consumer crap.

> I can almost guarantee they don’t see the types of issues Cisco
> sees, let alone do they have the technical depth that Cisco does in the
> TAC.  You get what you pay for – or don’t pay for.

  I believe HP has been making switches longer than Cisco has.  They
certainly got a huge installed base, and have extensive layer two
experience and knowledge.  If you're talking routers, yes, Cisco has a
definite edge.  But we're talking switches.

> I highly doubt HP guarantees next day delivery on all RMA items… there’s
> fine print there somewhere (or conveniently excluded).

  They do indeed promise immediate shipment via next day carrier.
Strictly speaking, "delivery" is up to the carrier, I presume.  In my
experience, if HP doesn't have your part they'll ship you something
better.

  Until recently, the *entire* ProCurve warranty statement was
(paraphrased), "HP guarantees the product against defects in materials
or manufacture for the lifetime of the product."  That's it.  Full
stop.  One sentence.  It's since grown come caveats for software and
GBIC modules, but it's still very short and straight-forward.  I wish
more companies would take the lesson.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

Re: Switch opinions

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

I've got some of that myself, and VoIP still works. I would still make sure it 
is certified as CAT 5, even if it doesn't meet 5e spec.

If you don't have a certifier, you can probably get a demo unit (Fluke, Ideal, 
or Agilent) from your local supply house, such as Graybar, for a few days.

Jonathan L. Raper, MCSE

Thumb-typed from my HTC Incredible (and yes, it really is) Droid. Please excuse 
brevity & any misspellings.

- Reply message -
From: "Evan Brastow" 
Date: Wed, Sep 15, 2010 7:06 am
Subject: Switch opinions
To: "NT System Admin Issues" 

Well, the one little issue is that the cabling was put in in 1995 and is Cat 5, 
not Car 5e :(


-Original Message-
From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

AS much as I prefer Cisco (IOS) over Procurve, I would agree. HP support on the 
HP 4000 (for me at least) has been excellent, when I have had to call them.

On another note, you should NOT have to physically separate your voice and data 
traffic. As long as you can separate via vlan and 802.1q qos, you SHOULD be 
fine if you're running 100M Fdx (I can't remember how much the 4000 can do, so 
it is possible that may be your bottleneck, from a configuration standpoint - 
not sure). I'm running ALL of my phones on the same cabling as my PCs and 
printers - data is either vlan1 or vlan10, and voice is vlan11. I'm running 
Mitel 3300 ICP, and I have PCs, Laptops, and even a printer plugged into the 
back of these phones, with one CAT5e cable to the desktop. My switchports are 
setup trunk, with native vlan 10, but allowed vlans 10 & 11. This way I can 
plug my PCs into ANY port, and they simply work. I can also plug my phones into 
any port, and they simply work. If I plug a phone into the back of the phone, 
the PC gets a PC IP Address, but the phone gets a voice IP Address. This makes 
troubleshooting a tad nbit easier, IMHO. If you're having issues, I would look 
at switch vlan & qos configuration, DHCP Options, and cabling infrastructure 
quality (is it CERTIFIED?) before adding a second cable drop to every desk. 
Just my $0.02 YMMV.

Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.com
www.eaglemds.com<http://www.eaglemds.com>

-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 4:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

Have you called HP to ask them if they can help?

If it's their switch, I'm sure they would be happy to figure out why it's 
causing you to loose traffic. Perhaps it's something simple, and a quick call 
for support can get you taken care of.

Feel free to go for Cisco if you want, but I would spend the time with HP to 
try and resolve this issue.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Evan Brastow
[mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Tue, 14 Sep 2010
12:00:36 -0700
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


> Hi guys,
>
> Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.
>
> The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system,
> but the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the
> wiring out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the
> computers.
>
> The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we
> recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our
> old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started
> shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and
> again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've
> been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the
> situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then,
> the consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place.
> At that point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and
> everything seemed to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco
> switches than HP, but said he had never seen a situation like this before.
> So, I'm just looking to replace the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to
> put the Netscreen back in place because once we put the SonicWALL in with
> the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.
>
> Again, thanks for your opinions :)
>
> Evan
>
> From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Switch opinions
>
> It is going to be interesting to see ho

RE: Switch opinions

[Evan Brastow]

Well, the one little issue is that the cabling was put in in 1995 and is Cat 5, 
not Car 5e :(


-Original Message-
From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 5:20 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

AS much as I prefer Cisco (IOS) over Procurve, I would agree. HP support on the 
HP 4000 (for me at least) has been excellent, when I have had to call them.

On another note, you should NOT have to physically separate your voice and data 
traffic. As long as you can separate via vlan and 802.1q qos, you SHOULD be 
fine if you're running 100M Fdx (I can't remember how much the 4000 can do, so 
it is possible that may be your bottleneck, from a configuration standpoint - 
not sure). I'm running ALL of my phones on the same cabling as my PCs and 
printers - data is either vlan1 or vlan10, and voice is vlan11. I'm running 
Mitel 3300 ICP, and I have PCs, Laptops, and even a printer plugged into the 
back of these phones, with one CAT5e cable to the desktop. My switchports are 
setup trunk, with native vlan 10, but allowed vlans 10 & 11. This way I can 
plug my PCs into ANY port, and they simply work. I can also plug my phones into 
any port, and they simply work. If I plug a phone into the back of the phone, 
the PC gets a PC IP Address, but the phone gets a voice IP Address. This makes 
troubleshooting a tad nbit easier, IMHO. If you're having issues, I would look 
at switch vlan & qos configuration, DHCP Options, and cabling infrastructure 
quality (is it CERTIFIED?) before adding a second cable drop to every desk. 
Just my $0.02 YMMV.

Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.com
www.eaglemds.com

-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 4:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

Have you called HP to ask them if they can help?

If it's their switch, I'm sure they would be happy to figure out why it's 
causing you to loose traffic. Perhaps it's something simple, and a quick call 
for support can get you taken care of.

Feel free to go for Cisco if you want, but I would spend the time with HP to 
try and resolve this issue.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Evan Brastow
[mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Tue, 14 Sep 2010
12:00:36 -0700
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


> Hi guys,
>
> Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.
>
> The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system,
> but the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the
> wiring out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the
> computers.
>
> The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we
> recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our
> old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started
> shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and
> again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've
> been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the
> situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then,
> the consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place.
> At that point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and
> everything seemed to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco
> switches than HP, but said he had never seen a situation like this before.
> So, I'm just looking to replace the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to
> put the Netscreen back in place because once we put the SonicWALL in with
> the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.
>
> Again, thanks for your opinions :)
>
> Evan
>
> From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Switch opinions
>
> It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP
> Networking/Server thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was
> that HP & Cisco had kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others'
> spaces for a while there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going
> head to head against HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if
> HP steps up their networking game...
>
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
> jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
> www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>
>
&g

RE: Switch opinions

[Evan Brastow]

We're going to contact HP support tomorrow night. The issue has been that it's 
been hard to get the consultant (and I've used two for this issue) to come 
after hours, but I've got them coming at 5 tomorrow night. When working during 
normal business hours, it's hard to leave the switch in long enough to call HP 
support (not sure how long we'd wait on hold, nevermind troubleshooting.) Users 
generally dislike service interruptions for long periods of time during normal 
working hours.

Thanks for everyone's opinions :) I always appreciate your time in answering.

Evan


From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 6:16 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Switch opinions

Why not contact HP support?

Seems like a configuration issue.  And if the consultant doesn't know what to 
look for, the behavior will likely crop up when you put a (more expensive) 
managed switch from Cisco in there.


ASB (My XeeSM Profile)<http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker>
Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Evan Brastow 
mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com>> wrote:
Hi guys,

Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.

The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system, but 
the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the wiring 
out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the computers.

The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we 
recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our 
old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started 
shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and 
again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've 
been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the 
situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then, the 
consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place. At that 
point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and everything seemed 
to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco switches than HP, but said 
he had never seen a situation like this before. So, I'm just looking to replace 
the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to put the Netscreen back in place 
because once we put the SonicWALL in with the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.

Again, thanks for your opinions :)

Evan

From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle 
[mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com<mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP Networking/Server 
thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was that HP & Cisco had 
kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others' spaces for a while 
there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going head to head against 
HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if HP steps up their 
networking game...


Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.com
www.eaglemds.com


From: richardmccl...@aspca.org<mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org> 
[mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org<mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org>]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


+1

Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you know 
the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.

Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)

I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make a 
couple of years back...)
--
Richard D. McClary
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
ASPCA(r)
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
Urbana, IL  61802

richardmccl...@aspca.org<mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org>

P: 217-337-9761
C: 217-417-1182
F: 217-337-9761
www.aspca.org<http://www.aspca.org/>


The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is from 
The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(r) (ASPCA(r)) and 
is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain 
legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended 
recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail, and any 
attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in 
error, please immediately notify me by reply email and permanently delete the 
original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof.


"Raper, Jonathan - Eagle" mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com>> 
wrote on 09/14/2010 01:20:16 P

Re: Switch opinions

[Andrew S. Baker]

Why not contact HP support?

Seems like a configuration issue.  And if the consultant doesn't know what
to look for, the behavior will likely crop up when you put a (more
expensive) managed switch from Cisco in there.



*ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) <http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker>
*Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...*
* *
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Evan Brastow
wrote:

>  Hi guys,
>
>
>
> Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.
>
>
>
> The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system,
> but the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the
> wiring out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the
> computers.
>
>
>
> The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we
> recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our
> old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started
> shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and
> again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've
> been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the
> situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then,
> the consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place.
> At that point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and
> everything seemed to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco
> switches than HP, but said he had never seen a situation like this before.
> So, I'm just looking to replace the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to
> put the Netscreen back in place because once we put the SonicWALL in with
> the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.
>
>
>
> Again, thanks for your opinions :)
>
>
>
> Evan
>
>
>
> *From:* Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Switch opinions
>
>
>
> It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP
> Networking/Server thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was
> that HP & Cisco had kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others’
> spaces for a while there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going
> head to head against HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if
> HP steps up their networking game…
>
>
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA*
> *jra...@eaglemds.com*
> *www.eaglemds.com
>   --
>
> *From:* richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Switch opinions
>
>
>
>
> +1
>
> Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you
> know the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.
>
> Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)
>
> I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make
> a couple of years back...)
> --
> Richard D. McClary
> Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
> *ASPCA®*
> 1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
> Urbana, IL  61802
>
> richardmccl...@aspca.org
>
> P: 217-337-9761
> C: 217-417-1182
> F: 217-337-9761
> www.aspca.org
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is
> from The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals® (ASPCA
> ®) and is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may
> contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail,
> and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me by reply email and
> permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout
> thereof.
>
>
> "Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010
> 01:20:16 PM:
>
> > We’ve used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524)
> > back in 2001. We’ve used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the
> > last year, we’ve replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,&
> 3750-48.
> >
> > I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don’t have a
> > lifetime warranty like the HP line – SmartNET is not inexpensive,
> > either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I’ve also worked with

RE: Switch opinions

[Rohyans, Aaron]

Easy guys... I never said they were equal... nor did I say Cisco offered free 
support.  Just that both offered "lifetime" warranties.  If that's all the OP 
is after, then he'll have just that.

And while I do consider myself a "Cisco bigot"... I can't for the life of me 
see how anyone here has been "pushing" Cisco.  The OP asked for opinions on 
Cisco gear... so that's what he got.  For the sake of argument, however, I 
would refute the link below with the following:


* Cisco doesn't offer power supply or fan replacements in their 
warranty... All HP is doing here is offering free brakes/tires with every car 
purchased... big deal.  How many are we anticipating on replacing?  And in the 
grand scheme of things, how much is this really going to cost you (or not cost 
you)?

* Cisco only supports their product 5 years after EoL... Well, there's 
a reason the product went EoL... and more than likely, it's had an already 
extensive career in the network.  You have bigger problems (vendor warranties 
aside) by squeezing life out of aging products.  You're setting yourself up for 
catastrophic failure.  Is Cisco making $$ off of your technology and 
depreciation cycle - yes, but can you blame them?

* Cisco doesn't offer free TAC support.  OK, but does HP offer free 
support on all their products, or just ProCurve?  They offer free support on 
one line of switches... big deal.  Just a way for HP to "differentiate" 
themselves from Cisco... more like a cheap attempt to steal switching market 
share.  I can almost guarantee they don't see the types of issues Cisco sees, 
let alone do they have the technical depth that Cisco does in the TAC.  You get 
what you pay for - or don't pay for.

* Cisco will ship out a replacement within 10 days of receipt of RMA.  
Wow... talk about highlighting a competitor's worst case to your favor.  I 
highly doubt HP guarantees next day delivery on all RMA items... there's fine 
print there somewhere (or conveniently excluded).

Keep in mind that both companies want to win your business... thus, HP's going 
to show you how Cisco is the devil in any way that they can.  And if the 
devil's in the details, I'm sure I can cough up plenty of documents to argue 
either side.  The choice is more personal preference than anything - unless 
there are specific criteria to be met.  HP's a great company with great 
products, but so is Cisco.  You are truly purchasing the "name" with Cisco (as 
most have implied here), but I like to think that Cisco has good product to 
back up their name.

"...I opened a TAC case and the response was "you need to go through the 
reseller to get this replaced if it is a DOA". I was thrilled! "
This should have been explained to you when you ordered the equipment.  For a 
certain period of time after the purchase, the reseller is responsible for 
hardware issues such as DOA.  This, in part, because SMARTNet can take a bit of 
time to get established.  Your reseller is the quickest way to get things done 
and will go to bat for you.

Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer
CCIE #21945
DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245
Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com<mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>
http://www.dpsciences.com/
"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the hacker 
as a small child before he invents the virus..."
"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, and 
those who can't"

From: Weatherford, Chad [mailto:cweatherf...@scvl.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 3:52 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

LOL! I don't think Cisco has any free configuration support. I had a new 2960 
(which we just bought 320) that was a DOA. I opened a TAC case and the response 
was "you need to go through the reseller to get this replaced if it is a DOA". 
I was thrilled! 

We are a total Cisco shop at present and I am now pushing to go to HP 
Networking. I have been very impressed with the things I have read and seen.
I would get with HP to fix your issue so you could keep the switch you have as 
long as it will suit your needs. Don't let the Cisco bigots push you...I know 
it seems cool to have Cisco but trust me!!! I have replaced 10-15 3750's due to 
stackport failures...but Cisco says there is no problem.

>From a former "Cisco Bigot"




From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 14:20
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

I'm going to sound like an HP fan here, but the devil is in the details. HP 
ProCurve Lifetime Warranty is superior to the Cisco Limited Lifetime Warranty, 
IMHO...

RE: Switch opinions

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

AS much as I prefer Cisco (IOS) over Procurve, I would agree. HP support on the 
HP 4000 (for me at least) has been excellent, when I have had to call them.

On another note, you should NOT have to physically separate your voice and data 
traffic. As long as you can separate via vlan and 802.1q qos, you SHOULD be 
fine if you're running 100M Fdx (I can't remember how much the 4000 can do, so 
it is possible that may be your bottleneck, from a configuration standpoint - 
not sure). I'm running ALL of my phones on the same cabling as my PCs and 
printers - data is either vlan1 or vlan10, and voice is vlan11. I'm running 
Mitel 3300 ICP, and I have PCs, Laptops, and even a printer plugged into the 
back of these phones, with one CAT5e cable to the desktop. My switchports are 
setup trunk, with native vlan 10, but allowed vlans 10 & 11. This way I can 
plug my PCs into ANY port, and they simply work. I can also plug my phones into 
any port, and they simply work. If I plug a phone into the back of the phone, 
the PC gets a PC IP Address, but the phone gets a voice IP Address. This makes 
troubleshooting a tad nbit easier, IMHO. If you're having issues, I would look 
at switch vlan & qos configuration, DHCP Options, and cabling infrastructure 
quality (is it CERTIFIED?) before adding a second cable drop to every desk. 
Just my $0.02 YMMV.

Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.com
www.eaglemds.com

-Original Message-
From: Matthew W. Ross [mailto:mr...@ephrataschools.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 4:56 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

Have you called HP to ask them if they can help?

If it's their switch, I'm sure they would be happy to figure out why it's 
causing you to loose traffic. Perhaps it's something simple, and a quick call 
for support can get you taken care of.

Feel free to go for Cisco if you want, but I would spend the time with HP to 
try and resolve this issue.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Evan Brastow
[mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Tue, 14 Sep 2010
12:00:36 -0700
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


> Hi guys,
>
> Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.
>
> The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system,
> but the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the
> wiring out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the
> computers.
>
> The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we
> recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our
> old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started
> shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and
> again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've
> been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the
> situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then,
> the consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place.
> At that point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and
> everything seemed to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco
> switches than HP, but said he had never seen a situation like this before.
> So, I'm just looking to replace the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to
> put the Netscreen back in place because once we put the SonicWALL in with
> the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.
>
> Again, thanks for your opinions :)
>
> Evan
>
> From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Switch opinions
>
> It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP
> Networking/Server thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was
> that HP & Cisco had kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others'
> spaces for a while there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going
> head to head against HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if
> HP steps up their networking game...
>
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
> jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
> www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>
>
> 
> From: richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Switch opinions
>
>
> +1
>
> Both our old 3500-series Cisco and o

RE: Switch opinions

[Matthew W. Ross]

Have you called HP to ask them if they can help?

If it's their switch, I'm sure they would be happy to figure out why it's 
causing you to loose traffic. Perhaps it's something simple, and a quick call 
for support can get you taken care of.

Feel free to go for Cisco if you want, but I would spend the time with HP to 
try and resolve this issue.


--Matt Ross
Ephrata School District


- Original Message -
From: Evan Brastow
[mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
To: NT System Admin Issues
[mailto:ntsysad...@lyris.sunbelt-software.com]
Sent: Tue, 14 Sep 2010
12:00:36 -0700
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


> Hi guys,
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.
> 
> The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system,
> but the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the
> wiring out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the
> computers.
> 
> The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we
> recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our
> old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started
> shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and
> again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've
> been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the
> situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then,
> the consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place.
> At that point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and
> everything seemed to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco
> switches than HP, but said he had never seen a situation like this before.
> So, I'm just looking to replace the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to
> put the Netscreen back in place because once we put the SonicWALL in with
> the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.
> 
> Again, thanks for your opinions :)
> 
> Evan
> 
> From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Switch opinions
> 
> It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP
> Networking/Server thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was
> that HP & Cisco had kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others'
> spaces for a while there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going
> head to head against HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if
> HP steps up their networking game...
> 
> 
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
> jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
> www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>
> 
> 
> From: richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: Switch opinions
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you
> know the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.
> 
> Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)
> 
> I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make
> a couple of years back...)
> --
> Richard D. McClary
> Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
> ASPCA(r)
> 1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
> Urbana, IL  61802
> 
> richardmccl...@aspca.org
> 
> P: 217-337-9761
> C: 217-417-1182
> F: 217-337-9761
> www.aspca.org<http://www.aspca.org/>
> 
> 
> The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is
> from The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(r)
> (ASPCA(r)) and is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and
> may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are
> not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail,
> and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me by reply email and
> permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout
> thereof.
> 
> 
> "Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010 01:20:16
> PM:
> 
> > We've used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524)
> > back in 2001. We've used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the
> > last year, we've replaced everything with all PoE, 35

RE: Switch opinions

[Weatherford, Chad]

LOL! I don't think Cisco has any free configuration support. I had a new
2960 (which we just bought 320) that was a DOA. I opened a TAC case and
the response was "you need to go through the reseller to get this
replaced if it is a DOA". I was thrilled! 

 

We are a total Cisco shop at present and I am now pushing to go to HP
Networking. I have been very impressed with the things I have read and
seen.

I would get with HP to fix your issue so you could keep the switch you
have as long as it will suit your needs. Don't let the Cisco bigots push
you...I know it seems cool to have Cisco but trust me!!! I have replaced
10-15 3750's due to stackport failures...but Cisco says there is no
problem.

 

>From a former "Cisco Bigot"

 

 

 

 

From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 14:20
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

 

I'm going to sound like an HP fan here, but the devil is in the details.
HP ProCurve Lifetime Warranty is superior to the Cisco Limited Lifetime
Warranty, IMHO...

 

http://h20338.www2.hp.com/enterprise/us/en/messaging/realstory-cisco-war
ranty.html

 

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/prod_warranties_listing.html

 

Interesting that I didn't find any HP versus Cisco warranty page on the
Cisco site...

 

 

 

Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.com mailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com> 
www.eaglemds.com http://www.eaglemds.com/>  



From: Rohyans, Aaron [mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

 

If I'm not mistaken, a lot of Cisco's switches now come with a
limited/enhanced lifetime warranties... similar to HP.  SMARTNet is
primarily for Cisco's support offering (not necessarily as a hardware
replacement offering... although it's used for that quite frequently) -
in which you can get expedited support in the event that issues arise,
or you need help with configuration.

 

Just wanted to point that out J.  I know HP's support is free, but
technically both vendors offer lifetime hardware warranties If
that's all you're after.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer

CCIE #21945

DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245

Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com
http://www.dpsciences.com/

"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the
hacker as a small child before he invents the virus..."

"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read
binary, and those who can't"

 

From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

 

It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP
Networking/Server thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding
was that HP & Cisco had kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each
others' spaces for a while there, but now that HP has entered the server
arena going head to head against HP and everyone else, it will be
interesting to see if HP steps up their networking game...

 

Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.com mailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com> 
www.eaglemds.com http://www.eaglemds.com/>  



From: richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

 


+1 

Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless
you know the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage. 

Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...) 

I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to
make a couple of years back...)
-- 
Richard D. McClary 
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group 
ASPCA(r) 
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36 
Urbana, IL  61802 
  
richardmccl...@aspca.org 
  
P: 217-337-9761 
C: 217-417-1182 
F: 217-337-9761 
www.aspca.org <http://www.aspca.org/>  
  

The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is
from The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(r)
(ASPCA(r)) and is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein
and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If
you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of the
contents of this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
immediately notify me by reply

RE: Switch opinions

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

I'm going to sound like an HP fan here, but the devil is in the details. HP 
ProCurve Lifetime Warranty is superior to the Cisco Limited Lifetime Warranty, 
IMHO...

http://h20338.www2.hp.com/enterprise/us/en/messaging/realstory-cisco-warranty.html

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/prod_warranties_listing.html

Interesting that I didn't find any HP versus Cisco warranty page on the Cisco 
site...




Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: Rohyans, Aaron [mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:57 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

If I'm not mistaken, a lot of Cisco's switches now come with a limited/enhanced 
lifetime warranties... similar to HP.  SMARTNet is primarily for Cisco's 
support offering (not necessarily as a hardware replacement offering... 
although it's used for that quite frequently) - in which you can get expedited 
support in the event that issues arise, or you need help with configuration.

Just wanted to point that out :).  I know HP's support is free, but technically 
both vendors offer lifetime hardware warranties If that's all you're after.

Hope this helps!

Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer
CCIE #21945
DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245
Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com<mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>
http://www.dpsciences.com/
"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the hacker 
as a small child before he invents the virus..."
"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, and 
those who can't"

From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP Networking/Server 
thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was that HP & Cisco had 
kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others' spaces for a while 
there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going head to head against 
HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if HP steps up their 
networking game...


Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


+1

Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you know 
the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.

Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)

I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make a 
couple of years back...)
--
Richard D. McClary
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
ASPCA(r)
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
Urbana, IL  61802

richardmccl...@aspca.org

P: 217-337-9761
C: 217-417-1182
F: 217-337-9761
www.aspca.org<http://www.aspca.org/>


The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is from 
The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(r) (ASPCA(r)) and 
is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain 
legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended 
recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail, and any 
attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in 
error, please immediately notify me by reply email and permanently delete the 
original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof.


"Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010 01:20:16 PM:

> We've used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524)
> back in 2001. We've used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the
> last year, we've replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,& 3750-48.
>
> I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don't have a
> lifetime warranty like the HP line - SmartNET is not inexpensive,
> either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I've also worked with
> 3Com & D-Link, but can't remember the specifics on either - for D-
> Link, it was their "high-end" gear, if D-Link has such...
>
> What do you need in a managed switch, aside from being able to look
> at port statistics? Do you have vlan and qos needs? Is

Re: Switch opinions

[Steven Peck]

And what did HP say when you called them on the switch issue?  Just curious.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Evan Brastow  wrote:

>  Hi guys,
>
>
>
> Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.
>
>
>
> The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system,
> but the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the
> wiring out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the
> computers.
>
>
>
> The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we
> recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our
> old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started
> shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and
> again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've
> been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the
> situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then,
> the consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place.
> At that point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and
> everything seemed to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco
> switches than HP, but said he had never seen a situation like this before.
> So, I'm just looking to replace the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to
> put the Netscreen back in place because once we put the SonicWALL in with
> the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.
>
>
>
> Again, thanks for your opinions :)
>
>
>
> Evan
>
>
>
> *From:* Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Switch opinions
>
>
>
> It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP
> Networking/Server thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was
> that HP & Cisco had kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others’
> spaces for a while there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going
> head to head against HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if
> HP steps up their networking game…
>
>
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA*
> *jra...@eaglemds.com*
> *www.eaglemds.com
>   --
>
> *From:* richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
> *To:* NT System Admin Issues
> *Subject:* RE: Switch opinions
>
>
>
>
> +1
>
> Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you
> know the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.
>
> Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)
>
> I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make
> a couple of years back...)
> --
> Richard D. McClary
> Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
> *ASPCA®*
> 1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
> Urbana, IL  61802
>
> richardmccl...@aspca.org
>
> P: 217-337-9761
> C: 217-417-1182
> F: 217-337-9761
> www.aspca.org
>
>
> The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is
> from The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals® (ASPCA
> ®) and is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may
> contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not
> the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail,
> and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me by reply email and
> permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout
> thereof.
>
>
> "Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010
> 01:20:16 PM:
>
> > We’ve used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524)
> > back in 2001. We’ve used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the
> > last year, we’ve replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,&
> 3750-48.
> >
> > I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don’t have a
> > lifetime warranty like the HP line – SmartNET is not inexpensive,
> > either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I’ve also worked with
> > 3Com & D-Link, but can’t remember the specifics on either – for D-
> > Link, it was their “high-end” gear, if D-Link has such…
> >
> > What do you need in a managed switch, aside from being able to look
> > at port sta

RE: Switch opinions

[Evan Brastow]

Hi guys,

Thanks to everyone for their opinions. I really appreciate it.

The switch will handle VoIP traffic - we currently have an Allworx system, but 
the voice quality is fairly poor. We're thinking of separating out the wiring 
out and running a separate switch for the Allwork system and the computers.

The reason I'm looking to replace the current HP ProCurve 2810 is that we 
recently purchased a new SonicWALL NSA 2400 firewall and put in place of our 
old Netscreen 5GT. However, when we did, the ProCurve seemingly started 
shutting down the LAN side of the SonicWALL port. This happened again and 
again. My consultant and I could not figure out what's going on, and they've 
been here 4 times working on it - probably have spent 15 hours on the 
situation. As soon as we put the Netscreen back in place, it's fine. Then, the 
consultant brought in an unmanaged 3Com switch and we put it in place. At that 
point, things ran fine. The port was not being shut down and everything seemed 
to work. Our consultant is more familiar with Cisco switches than HP, but said 
he had never seen a situation like this before. So, I'm just looking to replace 
the switch with a Cisco. We keep having to put the Netscreen back in place 
because once we put the SonicWALL in with the HP switch, all heck breaks loose.

Again, thanks for your opinions :)

Evan

From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP Networking/Server 
thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was that HP & Cisco had 
kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others' spaces for a while 
there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going head to head against 
HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if HP steps up their 
networking game...


Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


+1

Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you know 
the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.

Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)

I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make a 
couple of years back...)
--
Richard D. McClary
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
ASPCA(r)
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
Urbana, IL  61802

richardmccl...@aspca.org

P: 217-337-9761
C: 217-417-1182
F: 217-337-9761
www.aspca.org<http://www.aspca.org/>


The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is from 
The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(r) (ASPCA(r)) and 
is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain 
legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended 
recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail, and any 
attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in 
error, please immediately notify me by reply email and permanently delete the 
original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof.


"Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010 01:20:16 PM:

> We've used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524)
> back in 2001. We've used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the
> last year, we've replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,& 3750-48.
>
> I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don't have a
> lifetime warranty like the HP line - SmartNET is not inexpensive,
> either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I've also worked with
> 3Com & D-Link, but can't remember the specifics on either - for D-
> Link, it was their "high-end" gear, if D-Link has such...
>
> What do you need in a managed switch, aside from being able to look
> at port statistics? Do you have vlan and qos needs? Is VoIP in your
> environment (or in your future? - if so, whose VoIP product do you
> use or think will you use?)
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
> jra...@eaglemds.com
> www.eaglemds.com
>
> From: Evan Brastow [mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 1:32 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Switch opinions
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch 

RE: Switch opinions

[Rohyans, Aaron]

If I'm not mistaken, a lot of Cisco's switches now come with a limited/enhanced 
lifetime warranties... similar to HP.  SMARTNet is primarily for Cisco's 
support offering (not necessarily as a hardware replacement offering... 
although it's used for that quite frequently) - in which you can get expedited 
support in the event that issues arise, or you need help with configuration.

Just wanted to point that out :).  I know HP's support is free, but technically 
both vendors offer lifetime hardware warranties If that's all you're after.

Hope this helps!

Aaron T. Rohyans
Senior Network Engineer
CCIE #21945
DPSciences Corporation
7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245
Indianapolis, IN 46250
Office:  (317) 348-0099
Fax:   (317) 849-7134
arohy...@dpsciences.com<mailto:arohy...@dpsciences.com>
http://www.dpsciences.com/
"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the hacker 
as a small child before he invents the virus..."
"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, and 
those who can't"

From: Raper, Jonathan - Eagle [mailto:jra...@eaglemds.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:40 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions

It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP Networking/Server 
thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was that HP & Cisco had 
kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others' spaces for a while 
there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going head to head against 
HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if HP steps up their 
networking game...


Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


+1

Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you know 
the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.

Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)

I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make a 
couple of years back...)
--
Richard D. McClary
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
ASPCA(r)
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
Urbana, IL  61802

richardmccl...@aspca.org

P: 217-337-9761
C: 217-417-1182
F: 217-337-9761
www.aspca.org<http://www.aspca.org/>


The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is from 
The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(r) (ASPCA(r)) and 
is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain 
legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended 
recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail, and any 
attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in 
error, please immediately notify me by reply email and permanently delete the 
original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof.


"Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010 01:20:16 PM:

> We've used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524)
> back in 2001. We've used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the
> last year, we've replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,& 3750-48.
>
> I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don't have a
> lifetime warranty like the HP line - SmartNET is not inexpensive,
> either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I've also worked with
> 3Com & D-Link, but can't remember the specifics on either - for D-
> Link, it was their "high-end" gear, if D-Link has such...
>
> What do you need in a managed switch, aside from being able to look
> at port statistics? Do you have vlan and qos needs? Is VoIP in your
> environment (or in your future? - if so, whose VoIP product do you
> use or think will you use?)
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
> jra...@eaglemds.com
> www.eaglemds.com
>
> From: Evan Brastow [mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 1:32 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Switch opinions
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a
> Cisco Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any
> experience with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously
> Cisco is a pretty good name, but it's been a while since I've bought
> anything of theirs.

RE: Switch opinions

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

It is going to be interesting to see how the whole Cisco/HP Networking/Server 
thing is going to pan out ultimately. My understanding was that HP & Cisco had 
kind of a friendly agreement to stay out of each others' spaces for a while 
there, but now that HP has entered the server arena going head to head against 
HP and everyone else, it will be interesting to see if HP steps up their 
networking game...


Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: richardmccl...@aspca.org [mailto:richardmccl...@aspca.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:29 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: Switch opinions


+1

Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you know 
the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.

Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)

I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to make a 
couple of years back...)
--
Richard D. McClary
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group
ASPCA(r)
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
Urbana, IL  61802

richardmccl...@aspca.org

P: 217-337-9761
C: 217-417-1182
F: 217-337-9761
www.aspca.org<http://www.aspca.org/>


The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is from 
The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(r) (ASPCA(r)) and 
is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain 
legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended 
recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, 
distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail, and any 
attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in 
error, please immediately notify me by reply email and permanently delete the 
original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof.


"Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010 01:20:16 PM:

> We've used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524)
> back in 2001. We've used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the
> last year, we've replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,& 3750-48.
>
> I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don't have a
> lifetime warranty like the HP line - SmartNET is not inexpensive,
> either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I've also worked with
> 3Com & D-Link, but can't remember the specifics on either - for D-
> Link, it was their "high-end" gear, if D-Link has such...
>
> What do you need in a managed switch, aside from being able to look
> at port statistics? Do you have vlan and qos needs? Is VoIP in your
> environment (or in your future? - if so, whose VoIP product do you
> use or think will you use?)
>
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
> jra...@eaglemds.com
> www.eaglemds.com
>
> From: Evan Brastow [mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 1:32 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Switch opinions
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a
> Cisco Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any
> experience with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously
> Cisco is a pretty good name, but it's been a while since I've bought
> anything of theirs.
>
> Thanks! :)
>
> Evan
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.
> com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>
> Any medical information contained in this electronic message is
> CONFIDENTIAL and privileged. It is unlawful for unauthorized persons
> to view, copy, disclose, or disseminate CONFIDENTIAL information.
> This electronic message may contain information that is confidential
> and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the
> individual(s) and/or entity named as recipients in the message. If
> you are not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the
> sender immediately and delete this material from your computer. Do
> not deliver, distribute or copy this message, and do not disclose
> its contents or take any action in reliance on the information that
> it contains.
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftw

RE: Switch opinions

[pdw1914]

I'm slowly replacing my 10/100 switches at the edge.  I looked at the 2960 
(I've got two installed) but decided to go with the ProCurve at the edge.  The 
price is good and the life-time warranty is nice, too.  For me, the only 
difficulty was in getting to used to the HP 'language' since all my experience 
has been with Cisco.  

To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com
Subject: RE: Switch opinions
From: richardmccl...@aspca.org
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:28:55 -0500



+1



Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our
current 3750 series are, unless you know the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly,
are a pain to manage.



Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet
- smart for Cisco, I guess...)



I would seriously consider staying with
HP (which was not my choice to make a couple of years back...)

--

Richard D. McClary

Systems Administrator,
Information Technology Group


ASPCA®

1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste
36

Urbana, IL  61802

 

richardmccl...@aspca.org

 

P: 217-337-9761

C: 217-417-1182

F: 217-337-9761

www.aspca.org

 
The information contained
in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is from The American Society
for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals® (ASPCA®)
and is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain
legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the
intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination,
distribution, copying or use of the contents of this e-mail, and any attachments
hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please immediately notify me by reply email and permanently delete the
original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout thereof.

 



"Raper, Jonathan - Eagle" 
wrote on 09/14/2010 01:20:16 PM:



> We’ve used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 &
3524) 

> back in 2001. We’ve used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In
the 

> last year, we’ve replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,&
3750-48.

>  

> I like them, personally, but they are expensive
and don’t have a 

> lifetime warranty like the HP line – SmartNET is not inexpensive,


> either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I’ve also worked
with 

> 3Com & D-Link, but can’t remember the specifics on either –
for D-

> Link, it was their “high-end” gear, if D-Link has such…

>  

> What do you need in a managed switch, aside from
being able to look 

> at port statistics? Do you have vlan and qos needs? Is VoIP in your


> environment (or in your future? – if so, whose VoIP product do you


> use or think will you use?)

>  

> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE

> Technology Coordinator

> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA

> jra...@eaglemds.com

> www.eaglemds.com 

> 

> From: Evan Brastow [mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com] 

> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 1:32 PM

> To: NT System Admin Issues

> Subject: Switch opinions

>  

> Hi guys,

>  

> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch
and am looking at a 

> Cisco Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any


> experience with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously


> Cisco is a pretty good name, but it's been a while since I've bought

> anything of theirs.

>  

> Thanks! :)

>  

> Evan

>  

> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T
a resource hog! ~

> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>
 ~

> 

> ---

> To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.

> com/read/my_forums/

> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com

> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

> 

> Any medical information contained in this electronic message is 

> CONFIDENTIAL and privileged. It is unlawful for unauthorized persons

> to view, copy, disclose, or disseminate CONFIDENTIAL information.


> This electronic message may contain information that is confidential

> and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the


> individual(s) and/or entity named as recipients in the message. If


> you are not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the

> sender immediately and delete this material from your computer. Do


> not deliver, distribute or copy this message, and do not disclose


> its contents or take any action in reliance on the information that


> it contains.

> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T
a resource hog! ~

> ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>
 ~

> 

> ---

> To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.

> com/read/my_forums/

> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com

> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
~ Finall

RE: Switch opinions

[RichardMcClary]

+1

Both our old 3500-series Cisco and our current 3750 series are, unless you 
know the CIOS CLI stuff thoroughly, are a pain to manage.

Support renewal is expensive (SmartNet - smart for Cisco, I guess...)

I would seriously consider staying with HP (which was not my choice to 
make a couple of years back...)
--
Richard D. McClary
Systems Administrator, Information Technology Group 
ASPCA®
1717 S. Philo Rd, Ste 36
Urbana, IL  61802
 
richardmccl...@aspca.org
 
P: 217-337-9761
C: 217-417-1182
F: 217-337-9761
www.aspca.org
 
The information contained in this e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is 
from The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals® (ASPCA
®) and is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may 
contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not 
the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution, copying or use of the contents of this 
e-mail, and any attachments hereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me by reply email 
and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any 
printout thereof.
 

"Raper, Jonathan - Eagle"  wrote on 09/14/2010 
01:20:16 PM:

> We?ve used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524) 
> back in 2001. We?ve used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the 
> last year, we?ve replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24,& 
3750-48.
> 
> I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don?t have a 
> lifetime warranty like the HP line ? SmartNET is not inexpensive, 
> either. I have used ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I?ve also worked with 
> 3Com & D-Link, but can?t remember the specifics on either ? for D-
> Link, it was their ?high-end? gear, if D-Link has such?
> 
> What do you need in a managed switch, aside from being able to look 
> at port statistics? Do you have vlan and qos needs? Is VoIP in your 
> environment (or in your future? ? if so, whose VoIP product do you 
> use or think will you use?)
> 
> Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
> Technology Coordinator
> Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
> jra...@eaglemds.com
> www.eaglemds.com 
> 
> From: Evan Brastow [mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 1:32 PM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Switch opinions
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a 
> Cisco Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any 
> experience with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously 
> Cisco is a pretty good name, but it's been a while since I've bought
> anything of theirs.
> 
> Thanks! :)
> 
> Evan
> 
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.
> com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
> 
> Any medical information contained in this electronic message is 
> CONFIDENTIAL and privileged. It is unlawful for unauthorized persons
> to view, copy, disclose, or disseminate CONFIDENTIAL information. 
> This electronic message may contain information that is confidential
> and/or legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the 
> individual(s) and/or entity named as recipients in the message. If 
> you are not an intended recipient of this message, please notify the
> sender immediately and delete this material from your computer. Do 
> not deliver, distribute or copy this message, and do not disclose 
> its contents or take any action in reliance on the information that 
> it contains.
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
> 
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.
> com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

RE: Switch opinions

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

+1 I've had the same experience with a fan and a power supply on the HP 4000M, 
and their tech support was great when I had a programming issue.

Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: Jeff Steward [mailto:jstew...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: Switch opinions

Lifetime Warranty - I still have a ProCurve 4000M humming along nicely.  A fan 
dies about every 5 years and they send me a new one.

-Jeff Steward
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Steve Ens 
mailto:stevey...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Procurves rock...just picked up a 2910-48awesome performance.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Evan Brastow 
mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com>> wrote:
Hi guys,

I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a Cisco 
Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any experience with 
this switch or this family of switches? Obviously Cisco is a pretty good name, 
but it's been a while since I've bought anything of theirs.

Thanks! :)

Evan


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
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with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to 
listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com<mailto:listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com>
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin


Any medical information contained in this electronic message is CONFIDENTIAL 
and privileged. It is unlawful for unauthorized persons to view, copy, 
disclose, or disseminate CONFIDENTIAL information. This electronic message may 
contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. It is 
intended only for the use of the individual(s) and/or entity named as 
recipients in the message. If you are not an intended recipient of this 
message, please notify the sender immediately and delete this material from 
your computer. Do not deliver, distribute or copy this message, and do not 
disclose its contents or take any action in reliance on the information that it 
contains.

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/>  ~

---
To manage subscriptions click here: 
http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin

RE: Switch opinions

[Kim Longenbaugh]

Check out the Avaya offerings, for example, the 5600 series.  They are
excellent switches, the warranty is great, the price is very
competitive, and contrary to what the gloom-mongers were trumpeting in
the recent past, Avaya will not be abandoning the acquired Nortel data
products.  

My experience is that you get way more bang for the buck with the Avaya
(formerly Nortel) gear.

 

From: Evan Brastow [mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Switch opinions

 

Hi guys,

 

I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a Cisco
Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any experience
with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously Cisco is a pretty
good name, but it's been a while since I've bought anything of theirs.

 

Thanks! :)

 

Evan

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
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RE: Switch opinions

[Raper, Jonathan - Eagle]

We've used the Catalyst family since the 3500 series (3512 & 3524) back in 
2001. We've used the 3550, 2950, 3560 & 3750/3750G. In the last year, we've 
replaced everything with all PoE, 3560-48, 3750-24, & 3750-48.

I like them, personally, but they are expensive and don't have a lifetime 
warranty like the HP line - SmartNET is not inexpensive, either. I have used 
ProCurve (2424M & 4000M). I've also worked with 3Com & D-Link, but can't 
remember the specifics on either - for D-Link, it was their "high-end" gear, if 
D-Link has such...

What do you need in a managed switch, aside from being able to look at port 
statistics? Do you have vlan and qos needs? Is VoIP in your environment (or in 
your future? - if so, whose VoIP product do you use or think will you use?)


Jonathan L. Raper, A+, MCSA, MCSE
Technology Coordinator
Eagle Physicians & Associates, PA
jra...@eaglemds.commailto:%20jra...@eaglemds.com>
www.eaglemds.comhttp://www.eaglemds.com/>


From: Evan Brastow [mailto:ebras...@automatedemblem.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 1:32 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Switch opinions

Hi guys,

I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a Cisco 
Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any experience with 
this switch or this family of switches? Obviously Cisco is a pretty good name, 
but it's been a while since I've bought anything of theirs.

Thanks! :)

Evan


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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Re: Switch opinions

[Steve Ens]

I have two of those (one I picked up on Ebay for parts) and they run
forever...

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Jeff Steward  wrote:

> Lifetime Warranty - I still have a ProCurve 4000M humming along nicely.  A
> fan dies about every 5 years and they send me a new one.
>
> -Jeff Steward
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Steve Ens  wrote:
>
>> Procurves rock...just picked up a 2910-48awesome performance.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Evan Brastow <
>> ebras...@automatedemblem.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hi guys,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a Cisco
>>> Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any experience
>>> with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously Cisco is a pretty
>>> good name, but it's been a while since I've bought anything of theirs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks! :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Evan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>>> ~   ~
>>>
>>> ---
>>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
>   ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

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~   ~

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Re: Switch opinions

[Jeff Steward]

Lifetime Warranty - I still have a ProCurve 4000M humming along nicely.  A
fan dies about every 5 years and they send me a new one.

-Jeff Steward

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Steve Ens  wrote:

> Procurves rock...just picked up a 2910-48awesome performance.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Evan Brastow <
> ebras...@automatedemblem.com> wrote:
>
>>  Hi guys,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a Cisco
>> Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any experience
>> with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously Cisco is a pretty
>> good name, but it's been a while since I've bought anything of theirs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks! :)
>>
>>
>>
>> Evan
>>
>>
>>
>> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
>> ~   ~
>>
>> ---
>> To manage subscriptions click here:
>> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
>> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
>> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

---
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Re: Switch opinions

[Steve Ens]

Procurves rock...just picked up a 2910-48awesome performance.

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Evan Brastow  wrote:

>  Hi guys,
>
>
>
> I'm looking at replacing my HP ProCurve switch and am looking at a Cisco
> Catalyst 2960S-48TS-S 48 port managed switch. Anyone have any experience
> with this switch or this family of switches? Obviously Cisco is a pretty
> good name, but it's been a while since I've bought anything of theirs.
>
>
>
> Thanks! :)
>
>
>
> Evan
>
>
>
> ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
> ~   ~
>
> ---
> To manage subscriptions click here:
> http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/
> or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com
> with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
>

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~   ~

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