RE: 2011-10-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

No problem.  It was expect to happen by now.  I've been lazy about it while 
tending to other things.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 17:24
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: 2011-10-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

It's now been 4 months.  I'd suggest that it's time to remove initial
committer names of those folks who have never really participated in the
project, and/or who haven't signed an iCLA.

They're always welcome to show up later, show merit like everyone else
who has been working hard on the project, and get voted in as a
committer normally.  Merit should be defined by actual work done on the
Apache OpenOffice podling.

Just sayin'.

- Shane

On 10/14/2011 7:56 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> It has since been confirmed that there are still 55 members on the PPMC.
> I mistook a change in preferred e-mail to be an exit from the PPMC.
>
>   - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:11
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: 2011-10-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board
>
> As of the end of day, 2011-10-11, there are 76 committers, with 54 on the
> PPMC.
>
> Since the previous, 2011-09-13 report, that is an increase of 4 committers,
> and one leaving the PPMC.
>
> The number of outstanding iCLAs from eligible Initial Committers remains at
> 11.
>
>   - Dennis
>
> WHO'S ON BOARD
> 1 champion
> 5 mentor
> 2 mentor/committer
>54 PPMC
>20 committer
> 7 other
>89 TOTAL = Pending PPMC? + complete, below
>
> PENDING ACTIONS
> 0 invite
> 0 accepted?
>11 iCLA?
> 0 choose ID
> 2 ID chosen?
> 0 ID pending
>20 PPMC?
>69 complete
> 8 other
>   110 TOTAL
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 06:46
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: 2011-09-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board
>
> As of the end of day, 2011-09-12, there are 72 committers, with 55 on the
> PPMC.
>
> Since the previous, 2011-08-13 report, that is no change in the number of
> committers and a loss of one from the PPMC.
>
> The number of outstanding iCLAs from eligible Initial Committers is now 11, 
> a
> drop of only one since the previous report.
>
>   - Dennis
>
>
> WHO'S ON BOARD
> 1 champion
> 5 mentor
> 2 mentor/committer
>55 PPMC
>15 committer
> 8 other
>86 TOTAL = Pending PPMC? + complete, below
>
> PENDING ACTIONS
> 0 invite
> 0 accepted?
>11 iCLA?
> 0 choose ID
> 3 ID chosen?
> 2 ID pending
>14 PPMC?
>72 complete
> 3 other
>   105 TOTAL
>
>
>   [ ... ]


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Re: 2011-10-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

[Shane Curcuru]

It's now been 4 months.  I'd suggest that it's time to remove initial 
committer names of those folks who have never really participated in the 
project, and/or who haven't signed an iCLA.


They're always welcome to show up later, show merit like everyone else 
who has been working hard on the project, and get voted in as a 
committer normally.  Merit should be defined by actual work done on the 
Apache OpenOffice podling.


Just sayin'.

- Shane

On 10/14/2011 7:56 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

It has since been confirmed that there are still 55 members on the PPMC.
I mistook a change in preferred e-mail to be an exit from the PPMC.

  - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:11
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: 2011-10-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

As of the end of day, 2011-10-11, there are 76 committers, with 54 on the
PPMC.

Since the previous, 2011-09-13 report, that is an increase of 4 committers,
and one leaving the PPMC.

The number of outstanding iCLAs from eligible Initial Committers remains at
11.

  - Dennis

WHO'S ON BOARD
1 champion
5 mentor
2 mentor/committer
   54 PPMC
   20 committer
7 other
   89 TOTAL = Pending PPMC? + complete, below

PENDING ACTIONS
0 invite
0 accepted?
   11 iCLA?
0 choose ID
2 ID chosen?
0 ID pending
   20 PPMC?
   69 complete
8 other
  110 TOTAL

-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 06:46
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: 2011-09-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

As of the end of day, 2011-09-12, there are 72 committers, with 55 on the
PPMC.

Since the previous, 2011-08-13 report, that is no change in the number of
committers and a loss of one from the PPMC.

The number of outstanding iCLAs from eligible Initial Committers is now 11, a
drop of only one since the previous report.

  - Dennis


WHO'S ON BOARD
1 champion
5 mentor
2 mentor/committer
   55 PPMC
   15 committer
8 other
   86 TOTAL = Pending PPMC? + complete, below

PENDING ACTIONS
0 invite
0 accepted?
   11 iCLA?
0 choose ID
3 ID chosen?
2 ID pending
   14 PPMC?
   72 complete
3 other
  105 TOTAL


  [ ... ]

Re: We're on slashdot!

[Shane Curcuru]

And I'm on El Reg!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/14/apache_openoffice_alive_well/

Hope I did OK in the interview.  At least I got a good closing quote, 
even if it was a little tweaked in the story.


- Shane

On 10/14/2011 11:45 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:

Oh, my what an... extraordinarily colorful and controversial set of
quotes to rip out of the middle of different postings they put together:

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/10/14/1531252/OpenOffice-Is-Dying-And-IBM-Wont-Help


And boy, are there some misunderstandings out there.

- Shane

RE: 2011-10-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

It has since been confirmed that there are still 55 members on the PPMC.
I mistook a change in preferred e-mail to be an exit from the PPMC.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 10:11
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: 2011-10-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

As of the end of day, 2011-10-11, there are 76 committers, with 54 on the
PPMC.

Since the previous, 2011-09-13 report, that is an increase of 4 committers,
and one leaving the PPMC.

The number of outstanding iCLAs from eligible Initial Committers remains at
11.

 - Dennis

WHO'S ON BOARD
   1 champion
   5 mentor
   2 mentor/committer
  54 PPMC
  20 committer
   7 other
  89 TOTAL = Pending PPMC? + complete, below

PENDING ACTIONS
   0 invite
   0 accepted?
  11 iCLA?
   0 choose ID
   2 ID chosen?
   0 ID pending
  20 PPMC?
  69 complete
   8 other
 110 TOTAL

-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:orc...@apache.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 06:46
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: 2011-09-12 PPMC Status: Bringing Initial Committers On-Board

As of the end of day, 2011-09-12, there are 72 committers, with 55 on the
PPMC.

Since the previous, 2011-08-13 report, that is no change in the number of
committers and a loss of one from the PPMC.

The number of outstanding iCLAs from eligible Initial Committers is now 11, a
drop of only one since the previous report.

 - Dennis


WHO'S ON BOARD
   1 champion
   5 mentor
   2 mentor/committer
  55 PPMC
  15 committer
   8 other
  86 TOTAL = Pending PPMC? + complete, below

PENDING ACTIONS
   0 invite
   0 accepted?
  11 iCLA?
   0 choose ID
   3 ID chosen?
   2 ID pending
  14 PPMC?
  72 complete
   3 other
 105 TOTAL


 [ ... ]


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[REVIEW] Staged Migration of OO.o domain properties (long)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I've been pondering what it takes to choreograph migration of the live 
OpenOffice.org properties into Apache custodianship.

Instead of shoe-horning something on the Community Wiki, I want to rehearse 
some ideas here:

 1. Basic Idea of OpenOffice.org Properties
 2. Stages of Property Migration
 3. Coping with Dependencies
 4. Identifying and Accounting for Migration Activity


 1. BASIC IDEA OF OPENOFFICE.ORG PROPERTIES

The live OpenOffice.org wiki can be considered to be organized into separate 
but interdependent properties (think forums vs. mailing lists vs. wikis vs. 
downloads vs. documentation ...).  The properties even have their own 
addresses in the roadmap for the OpenOffice.org domain.  (I owe the 
"properties" term to Shane Curcuru.)

Some properties provide utility services for other properties.  Also, the 
properties are often organized on behalf of OpenOffice.org Projects.  For 
example, there is a marketing Project in its own property that includes web 
site, source control (for the web site), 8 mailing lists, bug tracking (the 
general bugzilla in this case), and a download area of marketing-related 
material.

That's the metaphor.  It's a way to look at what there is to choreograph.

 2. STAGES OF PROPERTY MIGRATION

Here are five stages to consider in the migration of a property:

  (1) Preparation - adjustments on the live property in anticipation of 
migration including migration trials and configuration of a soft landing 
place.  Individuals with site administration, services administration, and 
maintenance capabilities on the existing live-site property are required. 
Trial migration and configuration activities require Apache infrastructure and 
AOOo project contributors on Apache-hosted systems.  There is also preparation 
of the users of the live property for the changes to come, accounting for how 
disruption is being avoided (or not).

  (2) Staging - capture and packing of all live materials and movement to 
archives and any staging area for rehosting.  The property may be dark while 
staging happens.  Staging is a coordinated activity among live-site 
contributors and Apache contributors.

  (3) Re-Hosting - bringing the staged property alive under new hosting.  The 
re-hosted property is visible either as part of the original live site (as 
with forums and wikis, ideally) or in a new form reached independently and 
referred from other properties of the main site (as was done with the main 
bugzilla, for example).  Apart from any clean-up of the vacancy at the 
OpenOffice.org site, this involves Apache infrastructure and AOOo project 
contributors.  It is important to realize that there are software processes to 
re-host, not just data.

  (4) Incubation - additional adjustments and further migration effort as part 
of incubation activity (e.g., IP review, splitting of release-facing material 
from user-facing material, and performance tuning).  The property is 
maintained by Apache AOOo in conjunction with Apache Infrastructure, with 
incubation as required for an Apache/AOOo-hosted property.

  (5) Stabilization/Continuation - ongoing operation as part of a stable 
structure (until next time)

 3. COPING WITH DEPENDENCIES

Elements of the stages can overlap other stages, when there are no rigid 
sequencing dependencies.  It may also be necessary to perform some activities 
later in the migration than is ideal simply because there is no opportunity to 
accomplish the activity where it is most desired.

Also, there are dependencies and interactions with other properties, 
especially those that are services to a particular property, or are served by 
that property.

There may need to be considerable triage and the users of a property will need 
to be informed early enough that their own adjustments can be made.

There are unknowns in terms of required effort, necessary skills, and ability 
to adapt Apache hosting arrangements.  This is seen with the effort to migrate 
the OpenOffice.org MediaWiki services.

Risk management is required along with contingency planning and identification 
of ways to mitigate risks that arise.

 4. IDENTIFYING AND ACCOUNTING FOR MIGRATION ACTIVITY

There may be a structure that could be placed on the wiki for identifying and 
mapping the migration opportunities and constraints.

I'd like to know where this is not understood before diving down to such 
details.

 - Dennis




-Original Message-
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 14:46
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Status of migration of OOo domains?

[ ... ]

[T]here does need to be some lofting around what is a roadmap here, and
how does the existing live site be staged (and users informed) for transition
of the properties under OpenOffice.org.

I'm thinking on it.  I am trusting that others with their hands on the knobs
and dials will also speak up on what they can do by way of preparation for
stagi

Re: How start to build AOOo on WinXP

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

Hello Regina,

nice to see you here :)

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 09:56:09PM +0200, Regina Henschel wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have download the source via 'svn co
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk'

working with svn is a pain once you are used to Mercurial or Git.
Besides, it takes a lot of space, compared to a git-svn clone.
Many on the list are using this last one instead of svn; the steps are
documented in this thread:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3Cj3frmh$6of$1...@dough.gmane.org%3E
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201108.mbox/%3c20110829161136.gh24...@kulungile.erack.de%3E

Here are the steps I take:
I like having different repos for trunk/main and trunk/l10n, so:

mkdir trunk
cd trunk
git svn clone  --revision 1183367:HEAD 
https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/main
git svn clone  --revision 1166306:HEAD 
https://svn-master.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk/extras

you can get the latest revision for the --revision switch reading the
"Rev." column in http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/trunk/

extras/ r1166306
main/   r1183367

If you are going to make changes, IMO the best is to use git branch
feature:

cd trunk/main
git checkout -b patches

creates a branch named "patches" and switches to it.
Once you've done your changes, add the modified files and commit them.
You can generate patches with git diff or git format-patch.

To update the repo (all changes must be committed first), do

git svn rebase


> But now I don't know how to start. There is neither a 'configure'
> nor a 'autogen.sh'.

the configure script does not belong to the source tree anymore, you
have to regenerate it (for better, each time you rebase)

cd trunk/main
autoconf

autoconf is available in cygwin, use the setup tool to install it.

Once generated the configure script, proceed as usual.

Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


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Re: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> I think this is a wonderful idea and I would like to add an additional item
> -- can we get a list of folks who have submitted iCLAs toward this project,
> assuming they've filled in the "notify project" item?
>
> Another great mystery that might be nice to have unveiled.
>

When someone submits an iCLA, and after it has been processed by the
Apache Secretary, then their name shows up here:

http://people.apache.org/committer-index.html#unlistedclas

Note that this is not specific to AOOo.

There is an optional "notify project" field in the iCLA.  If the
person enters that, then ooo-private receives a note when the iCLA is
filed.  We saw that a few days ago for Andre Fischer.

-Rob

> and yep, I tried to get a list of subscribers to "dev" and no go for me. :(
>
> On 10/10/2011 08:03 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 06:10
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 17:48
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>>>  wrote:

 [ ... ]
>>
>>> 1) What page will contain this information?
>>> 
>>>  I have no preference.  It could be on the AOOo web site.  It could be on
>>> the
>>>  current podling incubator status page,
>>>  at
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> I like the idea of using the podling's status page, since we need to
>> update that page in any case when a new committer comes on board.
>>
>> 
>>    I concur.  A separate comment indicates that this is the practice
>>    for other projects, and it is the ideal case.  It is also possible
>>    for us to maintain that page with some degree of automation.
>> 
>>
>>> 2) Is updating the page a manual or automated process?
>>> 
>>>  It would have to be semi-manual, I think.  There is an automated
>>>  list of ooo-private subscribers, but not everyone on that list is
>>>  on the PPMC.  I also have a list that identifies everyone on the
>>>  PPMC that I update as part of the committer/PPMC intake workflow.
>>>  The spreadsheet with that list is in a private-to-the-PPMC SVN
>>>  repository area.
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> I thought only list moderators can get the list of subscribers.  Are
>> you a moderator of ooo-private?
>> 
>>    No, I am not a moderator of ooo-private.  However, the automated
>>    crosscheck.html report that Sam Ruby's script puts into the ooo-PPMC
>>    private SVN confirms who is on ooo-private as part of the cross-
>>    checking.
>> 
>>
>> That approach could work, especially since we're supposed to subscribe
>> to that list using our Apache alias.
>>
>>> 3) Who will do the updating?
>>> 
>>>  I will do it initially.  I will document the procedure so anyone on the
>>> PPMC
>>>  could take it over.
>>> 
>>>
>>> 4) How are you determining who is on the PPMC?  Based on vote?  Based
>>> on subscribing to ooo-private?  Based on an authorization file?
>>> 
>>>  I am not aware of anything like an authz for PPMC members.
>>>  I use the fact that they are invited or elected to be on the PPMC and
>>>  they have actually established themselves on the PPMC by subscribing
>>>  to ooo-private.  I propose that someone who has been invited to the
>>>  PPMC, is established as a committer, and has not subscribed to ooo-
>>>  private to not be established as a PPMC member since they have not
>>>  arranged to follow PPMC discussions and participate in voting.
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> What about that authorization file for the private SVN repository?
>> Would that yield a list of PPMC members?  Or is that really just a
>> committers list?
>>
>> 
>>   I don't have visibility on any authz related to the ooo-PPMC private
>>   SVN.  It is a sub-tree of repos/private/pmc/incubator/ and I don't know
>>   how it is authorized.
>> 
>>
>> [ ... ]
>>
>
> --
> 
> MzK
>
> "There is no such thing as coincidence."
>           -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39
>

Re: Bugzilla notifications not going to an ASF mailing list

[Mark Thomas]

On 14/10/2011 18:34, Dave Fisher wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thanks. I believe that the podling PPMC needs to make sure there are people 
> who are able to be sysadmins.

Agreed. A quick glance at the lists below suggests that quite a few
additional admins are required.

Option 1:
Identify a few folks to be in the admin group who can then add other
users to groups as required and provide the list of login_names to infra.

Option 2:
Same as 1 plus provide infra with a suitably formatted list (plain text)
of login_name to group name mappings that you want created in bulk as a
one-off

In both cases, the OOo project would manage users of the OOo Bz instance
moving forwards.

Please create an infrastructure Jira ticket when you are ready to take
this forward.

> Is it possible for you to identify who currently has a sysadmin role in the 
> AOOo BZ. Send it to ooo-private if you prefer.

The current mapping of users to admin roles for active users (those that
have reset their password) is as follows:
+---+--+
| login_name| name |
+---+--+
| ma...@apache.org  | admin|
| ma...@apache.org  | admin|
| j...@openoffice.org| api-admin|
| j...@openoffice.org| bizdev-admin |
| j...@openoffice.org| certification-admin  |
| pja...@openoffice.org | cs-admin |
| j...@openoffice.org| education-admin  |
| j...@openoffice.org| es-admin |
| j...@openoffice.org| extensions-admin |
| m...@openoffice.org| framework-admin  |
| c...@openoffice.org | graphics-admin   |
| h...@apache.org| gsl-admin|
| ti...@openoffice.org  | hu-admin |
| r4z...@openoffice.org | hu-admin |
| cl...@openoffice.org  | infrastructure-admin |
| pesce...@openoffice.org   | it-admin |
| o...@erack.de  | l10n-admin   |
| pja...@openoffice.org | l10n-admin   |
| nem...@openoffice.org | lingucomponent-admin |
| joost.and...@gmx.de   | qa-admin |
| o...@erack.de  | sc-admin |
| goranra...@openoffice.org | sr-admin |
| m...@openoffice.org| sw-admin |
| c...@openoffice.org| sw-admin |
| orwittm...@googlemail.com | sw-admin |
| s...@openoffice.org | udk-admin|
| o...@openoffice.org | ui-admin |
+---+--+

The current mapping of all users to admin roles is:
+---+--+
| login_name| name |
+---+--+
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | aa-admin |
| ooo...@openoffice.org | aa-admin |
| admin...@openoffice.org   | aa-admin |
| s...@openoffice.org | about-admin  |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | about-admin  |
| ma...@apache.org  | admin|
| ma...@apache.org  | admin|
| lo...@openoffice.org  | af-admin |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | af-admin |
| fwo...@openoffice.org | af-admin |
| admin...@openoffice.org   | af-admin |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | am-admin |
| asmelasht...@openoffice.org   | am-admin |
| admin...@openoffice.org   | am-admin |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | api-admin|
| j...@openoffice.org| api-admin|
| admin...@openoffice.org   | api-admin|
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | ar-admin |
| okha...@openoffice.org| ar-admin |
| admin...@openoffice.org   | ar-admin |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | ast-admin|
| marqui...@openoffice.org  | ast-admin|
| admin...@openoffice.org   | ast-admin|
| lo...@openoffice.org  | az-admin |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | az-admin |
| emin_husey...@openoffice.org  | az-admin |
| admin...@openoffice.org   | az-admin |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | bal-admin|
| las...@openoffice.org | bal-admin|
| admin...@openoffice.org   | bal-admin|
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | bg-admin |
| ico...@openoffice.org | bg-admin |
| admin...@openoffice.org   | bg-admin |
| kenaiad...@openoffice.org | bibliographic-admin  |
| d...@openoffice.o

Re: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster

[Kay Schenk]

I think this is a wonderful idea and I would like to add an additional 
item -- can we get a list of folks who have submitted iCLAs toward this 
project, assuming they've filled in the "notify project" item?


Another great mystery that might be nice to have unveiled.

and yep, I tried to get a list of subscribers to "dev" and no go for me. :(

On 10/10/2011 08:03 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:



-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 06:10
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:



-Original Message-
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2011 17:48
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Publishing the PPMC Roster

On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton  wrote:

[ ... ]



1) What page will contain this information?

  I have no preference.  It could be on the AOOo web site.  It could be on the
  current podling incubator status page,
  at




I like the idea of using the podling's status page, since we need to
update that page in any case when a new committer comes on board.


I concur.  A separate comment indicates that this is the practice
for other projects, and it is the ideal case.  It is also possible
for us to maintain that page with some degree of automation.



2) Is updating the page a manual or automated process?

  It would have to be semi-manual, I think.  There is an automated
  list of ooo-private subscribers, but not everyone on that list is
  on the PPMC.  I also have a list that identifies everyone on the
  PPMC that I update as part of the committer/PPMC intake workflow.
  The spreadsheet with that list is in a private-to-the-PPMC SVN
  repository area.




I thought only list moderators can get the list of subscribers.  Are
you a moderator of ooo-private?

No, I am not a moderator of ooo-private.  However, the automated
crosscheck.html report that Sam Ruby's script puts into the ooo-PPMC
private SVN confirms who is on ooo-private as part of the cross-
checking.


That approach could work, especially since we're supposed to subscribe
to that list using our Apache alias.


3) Who will do the updating?

  I will do it initially.  I will document the procedure so anyone on the PPMC
  could take it over.


4) How are you determining who is on the PPMC?  Based on vote?  Based
on subscribing to ooo-private?  Based on an authorization file?

  I am not aware of anything like an authz for PPMC members.
  I use the fact that they are invited or elected to be on the PPMC and
  they have actually established themselves on the PPMC by subscribing
  to ooo-private.  I propose that someone who has been invited to the
  PPMC, is established as a committer, and has not subscribed to ooo-
  private to not be established as a PPMC member since they have not
  arranged to follow PPMC discussions and participate in voting.




What about that authorization file for the private SVN repository?
Would that yield a list of PPMC members?  Or is that really just a
committers list?


   I don't have visibility on any authz related to the ooo-PPMC private
   SVN.  It is a sub-tree of repos/private/pmc/incubator/ and I don't know
   how it is authorized.


[ ... ]



--

MzK

"There is no such thing as coincidence."
   -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39

Re: Is there an org chart of the previous OOo governance(s)?

[Kay Schenk]

On 10/13/2011 06:49 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:

On 10/13/2011 9:18 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:
...

Juergen Schmidt may be able to provide more insight here when he can
catch
up to the list as he was a member of the CC.



i don't really want to comment on this because of my history. The general
idea and intention of the CC was good but in practise in was never
able to
operate or run in the way it should. So let us focus on finding our
own new
way...

I am sure that over time we will find a way that is Apache conform and
that
will reflect the way how we work here. Some kind of governance will
establish automatically in different areas. We will trust people who have
shown expertise in development and code questions, the same for people
who
focus on documentation, on marketing, QA etc. We will simply trust
lets call
it working groups and will correct things if necessary or something
fails.


Apologies: I think I was unclear in my original note, as several replies
seem to show.

I have no interest in replicating any previous governance structures, or
even necessarily using them as models in future governance. The Apache
PMC structure (here, a Podling PMC) is already well defined, both in
general across Apache projects and in specific here within the Apache
OOo podling.

In particular, factors like the inherent corporate control in many
previous OOo governance structures is something that is explicitly
forbidden at Apache. Likewise, the multiplicity of separate governance
communities (as it seems the various projects had, at least to my
untrained eye) is also something that is not part of the Apache Way.
Similarly, while Apache projects strive to use consensus to drive
projects forward, there is also a clear set of rules for [VOTE]ing to
ensure that formal and binding decisions are made in a timely manner.


Shane--

I think you've probably got as much of an answer as anyone here can give 
-- well save a few (Marcus, Martin) -- based on your research on the web 
site, the Community Council and the ESR. In addition to these two 
groups, from my recollection, were the actual "project leads" (PLs) that 
fed into this process -- from which, supposedly, the 3 “Product 
Development Representatives” were chosen.


see
http://council.openoffice.org/councilcharter12.html

At what time I was a project lead but never a member of the council. 
Louis S-P, the head of the project, was always pretty good about 
communicating things to the PLs as I recall, and of course, at any time, 
we could always contact him.


As far as the use of the "brand" and other information, this the only 
relevant page I've come across...

http://about.openoffice.org/index.html#logo

Much of it has to do wiht the use of the  logo and other graphical 
elements, but this particular sentence is interesting---


"To ensure the use to the benefit of the project and in support for the 
product we protect our name and our brand elements, especially the 
official logo. OpenOffice.org and the OpenOffice.org logo are trademarks 
or registered trademarks of Oracle and/or its affiliates."


I'm not a legal eagle , but I would say any entity that in some way 
contains the string "OpenOffice.org" would be subject to trademark 
restrictions/requirements, etc.






To be specific, we have a PPMC that runs the Apache OOo project, and
effectively will be managing the openoffice.org domain and brands. While
various committers here may work in groups or on various Apache mailing
lists to move the project forward, the PPMC is the governing body. This
fairly flat governance model is definitely a change for those who may
have experience with working in OOo in the past.

For those who haven't read it, here's an essay I wrote which I think
would be valuable for people concerned about the independence of PMC
governance here at Apache:

http://communityovercode.com/2011/05/apache-projects-are-independent/

In any case, I was just curious as to what the previous structures were
so I can understand them better, and hopefully be better prepared to
explain to people what has happened in the OpenOffice.org "world".

Sorry if anyone mistook my query to think that I was interested in
replicating any past governance structures - I assure you, I am not.

- Shane


--

MzK

"There is no such thing as coincidence."
   -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39

Re: Bugzilla notifications not going to an ASF mailing list

[Mark Thomas]

On 14/10/2011 17:15, Mark Thomas wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> The infrastructure team has noticed that Bugzilla updates from the OOo
> instance are not being sent to any ASF mailing lists. AS part of the "if
> it didn't happen on the mailing list it didn't happen" this needs to be
> rectified quickly.
> 
> The infrastructure team will therefore be adding the ooo-issues list as
> an automatic CC address for all projects/components in the OOo BZ
> instance. This will happen sometime in the next few days.
> 
> If you want to follow issues updates, please subscribe to the ooo-issues
> list.

This has been completed.

Mark

Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Dave Fisher]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 12:27 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:

>  TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and LO. 
> (Would we have other special relationships?) 
> 

A TDF Liaison could help AOOo be translating all press and marketing material 
into German. By providing our own translation we can be careful not to 
inadvertently cause any slights from careless translations.

Also by far the largest part of the OOo website in another language is DE. This 
material is slightly out of date.

Regards,
Dave

Legacy OOo SVN

[Rob Weir]

I want to make sure we're not duplicating effort here.  I've been
working with Pedro to take the legacy OOo SVN repository (pre Hg) and
get it onto Apache-Extras.  I'm doing this via svnsync, a slow
process, but it will preserve the revision history.

It should be done in a few more days.

We should think about putting a link to this repository, along with a
link to the back up Hg repository, on our website here:

http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/source.html

It should probably have a suitable disclaimer that this is the legacy
code, not the project's code, not ALv2, etc., but having access to the
history is useful.

I'm told that before SVN the project used CVS.  Is it worth backing
that up as well?

-Rob

Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Dave Fisher]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 2:13 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> Rob,
>> 
>> I find this response ironic as I was only following your suggestion to make 
>> this discussion more visible. After two days I felt that someone should do 
>> it,.
>> 
> 
> The discussion was more than about marketing, right?  I'm just saying
> that it is obvious we need a marketing team, but also obvious that
> they will be busy enough to want their own mailing list. Do you
> disagree?

Certainly a ML soon. Perhaps it is part of a proposal out of this process. I 
think that there are other teams to discuss. I am thinking about an AOOo 
Infrastructure / Migration / Sysadmin Team. That is complex, but much is known. 


The point of this discussion is to determine what roles this community needs on 
a marketing team. Some of these roles may be temporary or prove unnecessary. 
There are certainly other roles. Education? Certification? NL?

> 
> As for the other roles you brought up, I thank you for bring them up
> for more visibility.

You're welcome. And back to  whoever wants to volunteer their time or 
opinion. I'm just trying to get the discussion going.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> -Rob
> 
>> It's the weekend have a good one and let's discusses teams and roles with 
>> other's input.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
 The real point to this discussion is that the AOOo podling PPC needs a 
 clear Marketing Team.
 
>>> 
>>> If I may make an observation:  the people doing the majority of the
>>> code commits are really not active in the marketing/press/brand
>>> threads. And those that are most active in the marketing/press/brand
>>> threads are not writing a lot of code. This is not a problem.  We have
>>> a diversity of interests.  But it suggests there might be some value
>>> in spinning off an ooo-marketing list first, allow anyone who wishes
>>> to join, and then drill into these other topics.  Maybe the
>>> participants of that list become essentially the "marketing team"?
>>> There is some advantage to letting the coders focus on the code, with
>>> less thread churn, and let other groups concentrate on other
>>> functions.  For things that require project-wide discussions (and not
>>> everything does) we can agree to discuss on ooo-dev as the main list.
>>> Or maybe we create an ooo-general for that.
>>> 
 On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
 
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dave Fisher  
> wrote:
>> While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed making 
>> volunteers from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We quickly 
>> proceeded with a Press Liaison due to the immediate need. Before 
>> settling on a larger set of roles let's have a discussion and come to a 
>> consensus.
>> 
>> Types of roles or teams:
>> 
>> (1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the AOOo 
>> project community with the many communities in the OOo universe.
>> 
>> - Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)
>> 
>> - Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with other 
>> entities.
>> 
> 
> Worf?
> 
> But seriously, we already have a security team in place, via the
> ooo-security list.  Their responsibilities also include security
> co-ordination.  But we could certainly use another 2 or 3 volunteers
> there, especially among active coders on the project.
 
 My thought is if we have someone on the PPMC who volunteers for first 
 chance to answer security questions on ooo-dev or ooo-users then we will 
 quickly have a common and measured response.
 
> 
>> - TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and 
>> LO. (Would we have other special relationships?)
>> 
> 
> All our relations are special.  But I assume it would be silly to have
> a liaison to IBM Lotus Symphony.
> 
>> - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
>> 
> 
> I think of that as being a marketing function.  Could break it out,
> but these two functions would need to closely coordinate.  Maybe think
> of it this way:  I could certainly imagine a dedicated ooo-marketing
> mailing list.  But I don't think an ooo-branding list would get much
> traffic.
> 
>> - Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use are 
>> all proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct. Seek 
>> copyright assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this another team?)
>> 
> 
> I think that is a core dev function, since it will mainly involve
> changing heads in the source files, etc.  With the clarifications we
> received from Robert, I don't see a problem here.  Also, this is not
> an ongoing role.  On

Re: How start to build AOOo on WinXP

[Pedro Giffuni]

--- On Fri, 10/14/11, Regina Henschel  wrote:

> From: Regina Henschel 
> Subject: Re: How start to build AOOo on WinXP
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Date: Friday, October 14, 2011, 4:17 PM
> Hi Pedro,
> 
> Pedro Giffuni schrieb:
> > Hi;
> > 
> > That has changed for everyone.. and has to be updated
> in
> > the guides.
> > 
> > You need GNU autoconf : it generates the "configure"
> > script.
> 
> That is not clear to me. 

I have never used cygwin but a common development
tool is autoconf. Perhaps it's here:
http://sourceware.org/autobook/autobook/autobook_244.html

In your root directory there should be a file called
"configure.in". In that directory you type:

autoconf

and it will creat the configure script. Then you go on
like before...


> For OOo I had used
> 
> ./configure \
>  --with-directx-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft
> DirectX SDK (March 2009)" \
>  --with-cl-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft Visual
> Studio 9.0/VC" \
>  --disable-activex \
>  --disable-build-mozilla \
>  --disable-nss-module \
>  --disable-atl \
>  --disable-binfilter \
>  --disable-odk \
>  --with-frame-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft
> SDKs/Windows/v6.1" \
>  --with-psdk-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft
> SDKs/Windows/v6.1" \
>  --with-midl-path="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft
> SDKs/Windows/v6.0A/bin" \
>  --with-asm-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft Visual
> Studio 9.0/VC/bin" \
>  --with-jdk-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Java/jdk1.6.0_20"
> \
> 
> --with-csc-path="/cygdrive/c/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v3.5"
> \
>  --with-ant-home=/ant \
>  --without-junit
> 

...

cheers,

Pedro.

Re: How start to build AOOo on WinXP

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Pedro,

Pedro Giffuni schrieb:

Hi;

That has changed for everyone.. and has to be updated in
the guides.

You need GNU autoconf : it generates the "configure"
script.


That is not clear to me. For OOo I had used

./configure \
 --with-directx-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft DirectX SDK 
(March 2009)" \

 --with-cl-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0/VC" \
 --disable-activex \
 --disable-build-mozilla \
 --disable-nss-module \
 --disable-atl \
 --disable-binfilter \
 --disable-odk \
 --with-frame-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft SDKs/Windows/v6.1" \
 --with-psdk-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft SDKs/Windows/v6.1" \
 --with-midl-path="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft 
SDKs/Windows/v6.0A/bin" \
 --with-asm-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Microsoft Visual Studio 
9.0/VC/bin" \

 --with-jdk-home="/cygdrive/c/Programme/Java/jdk1.6.0_20" \
 --with-csc-path="/cygdrive/c/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v3.5" \
 --with-ant-home=/ant \
 --without-junit

What have I to do now?

Kind regards
Regina



cheers,

Pedro.

--- On Fri, 10/14/11, Regina Henschel  wrote:



I know that guide, but 'configure' mentioned there, does
not exist.

$ ./configure --help

results in

bash: ./configure: No such file or directory

Therefore I ask.

Kind regards
Regina

Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I find this response ironic as I was only following your suggestion to make 
> this discussion more visible. After two days I felt that someone should do 
> it,.
>

The discussion was more than about marketing, right?  I'm just saying
that it is obvious we need a marketing team, but also obvious that
they will be busy enough to want their own mailing list. Do you
disagree?

As for the other roles you brought up, I thank you for bring them up
for more visibility.

-Rob

> It's the weekend have a good one and let's discusses teams and roles with 
> other's input.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>> The real point to this discussion is that the AOOo podling PPC needs a 
>>> clear Marketing Team.
>>>
>>
>> If I may make an observation:  the people doing the majority of the
>> code commits are really not active in the marketing/press/brand
>> threads. And those that are most active in the marketing/press/brand
>> threads are not writing a lot of code. This is not a problem.  We have
>> a diversity of interests.  But it suggests there might be some value
>> in spinning off an ooo-marketing list first, allow anyone who wishes
>> to join, and then drill into these other topics.  Maybe the
>> participants of that list become essentially the "marketing team"?
>> There is some advantage to letting the coders focus on the code, with
>> less thread churn, and let other groups concentrate on other
>> functions.  For things that require project-wide discussions (and not
>> everything does) we can agree to discuss on ooo-dev as the main list.
>> Or maybe we create an ooo-general for that.
>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
 On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed making 
> volunteers from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We quickly 
> proceeded with a Press Liaison due to the immediate need. Before settling 
> on a larger set of roles let's have a discussion and come to a consensus.
>
> Types of roles or teams:
>
> (1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the AOOo 
> project community with the many communities in the OOo universe.
>
> - Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)
>
> - Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with other 
> entities.
>

 Worf?

 But seriously, we already have a security team in place, via the
 ooo-security list.  Their responsibilities also include security
 co-ordination.  But we could certainly use another 2 or 3 volunteers
 there, especially among active coders on the project.
>>>
>>> My thought is if we have someone on the PPMC who volunteers for first 
>>> chance to answer security questions on ooo-dev or ooo-users then we will 
>>> quickly have a common and measured response.
>>>

> - TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and LO. 
> (Would we have other special relationships?)
>

 All our relations are special.  But I assume it would be silly to have
 a liaison to IBM Lotus Symphony.

> - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
>

 I think of that as being a marketing function.  Could break it out,
 but these two functions would need to closely coordinate.  Maybe think
 of it this way:  I could certainly imagine a dedicated ooo-marketing
 mailing list.  But I don't think an ooo-branding list would get much
 traffic.

> - Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use are all 
> proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct. Seek copyright 
> assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this another team?)
>

 I think that is a core dev function, since it will mainly involve
 changing heads in the source files, etc.  With the clarifications we
 received from Robert, I don't see a problem here.  Also, this is not
 an ongoing role.  Once we've done the initial IP processing, the
 committers as a whole pay attention to IP requirements on a daily
 basis.  So it is important for the committers as a whole to all be
 familiar with the requirements here.
>>>
>>> I'm willing to move Legal to a different thread. We do need someone to help 
>>> with TOU on the migration side. It is more to have one person asking Legal, 
>>> not several people with variations.
>>>
>>> I haven't looked at Robert's comments other than I knew we needed to wait 
>>> for Andrew to comment.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>


 -- Social media (or media in general), so press, blog, twitter,
 facebook, etc.   Or maybe that goes with marketing?

 Obviously the answers here will depend on volunteers and how much time
 they can 

Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Dave Fisher]

Rob,

I find this response ironic as I was only following your suggestion to make 
this discussion more visible. After two days I felt that someone should do it,.

It's the weekend have a good one and let's discusses teams and roles with 
other's input.

Regards,
Dave

On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> The real point to this discussion is that the AOOo podling PPC needs a clear 
>> Marketing Team.
>> 
> 
> If I may make an observation:  the people doing the majority of the
> code commits are really not active in the marketing/press/brand
> threads. And those that are most active in the marketing/press/brand
> threads are not writing a lot of code. This is not a problem.  We have
> a diversity of interests.  But it suggests there might be some value
> in spinning off an ooo-marketing list first, allow anyone who wishes
> to join, and then drill into these other topics.  Maybe the
> participants of that list become essentially the "marketing team"?
> There is some advantage to letting the coders focus on the code, with
> less thread churn, and let other groups concentrate on other
> functions.  For things that require project-wide discussions (and not
> everything does) we can agree to discuss on ooo-dev as the main list.
> Or maybe we create an ooo-general for that.
> 
>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
 While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed making 
 volunteers from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We quickly 
 proceeded with a Press Liaison due to the immediate need. Before settling 
 on a larger set of roles let's have a discussion and come to a consensus.
 
 Types of roles or teams:
 
 (1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the AOOo 
 project community with the many communities in the OOo universe.
 
 - Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)
 
 - Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with other 
 entities.
 
>>> 
>>> Worf?
>>> 
>>> But seriously, we already have a security team in place, via the
>>> ooo-security list.  Their responsibilities also include security
>>> co-ordination.  But we could certainly use another 2 or 3 volunteers
>>> there, especially among active coders on the project.
>> 
>> My thought is if we have someone on the PPMC who volunteers for first chance 
>> to answer security questions on ooo-dev or ooo-users then we will quickly 
>> have a common and measured response.
>> 
>>> 
 - TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and LO. 
 (Would we have other special relationships?)
 
>>> 
>>> All our relations are special.  But I assume it would be silly to have
>>> a liaison to IBM Lotus Symphony.
>>> 
 - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
 
>>> 
>>> I think of that as being a marketing function.  Could break it out,
>>> but these two functions would need to closely coordinate.  Maybe think
>>> of it this way:  I could certainly imagine a dedicated ooo-marketing
>>> mailing list.  But I don't think an ooo-branding list would get much
>>> traffic.
>>> 
 - Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use are all 
 proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct. Seek copyright 
 assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this another team?)
 
>>> 
>>> I think that is a core dev function, since it will mainly involve
>>> changing heads in the source files, etc.  With the clarifications we
>>> received from Robert, I don't see a problem here.  Also, this is not
>>> an ongoing role.  Once we've done the initial IP processing, the
>>> committers as a whole pay attention to IP requirements on a daily
>>> basis.  So it is important for the committers as a whole to all be
>>> familiar with the requirements here.
>> 
>> I'm willing to move Legal to a different thread. We do need someone to help 
>> with TOU on the migration side. It is more to have one person asking Legal, 
>> not several people with variations.
>> 
>> I haven't looked at Robert's comments other than I knew we needed to wait 
>> for Andrew to comment.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Social media (or media in general), so press, blog, twitter,
>>> facebook, etc.   Or maybe that goes with marketing?
>>> 
>>> Obviously the answers here will depend on volunteers and how much time
>>> they can dedicate to these tasks.
>>> 
>>> -Rob
>>> 
 Regards,
 Dave
 
 On Oct 12, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
 
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Donald Harbison  
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> 
 On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Dave Fisher 
>>> wrote:
> Rob,
> 
>

Re: How start to build AOOo on WinXP

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi;

That has changed for everyone.. and has to be updated in
the guides.

You need GNU autoconf : it generates the "configure"
script.

cheers,

Pedro.

--- On Fri, 10/14/11, Regina Henschel  wrote:

> 
> I know that guide, but 'configure' mentioned there, does
> not exist.
> 
> $ ./configure --help
> 
> results in
> 
> bash: ./configure: No such file or directory
> 
> Therefore I ask.
> 
> Kind regards
> Regina
> 
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> The real point to this discussion is that the AOOo podling PPC needs a clear 
> Marketing Team.
>

If I may make an observation:  the people doing the majority of the
code commits are really not active in the marketing/press/brand
threads. And those that are most active in the marketing/press/brand
threads are not writing a lot of code. This is not a problem.  We have
a diversity of interests.  But it suggests there might be some value
in spinning off an ooo-marketing list first, allow anyone who wishes
to join, and then drill into these other topics.  Maybe the
participants of that list become essentially the "marketing team"?
There is some advantage to letting the coders focus on the code, with
less thread churn, and let other groups concentrate on other
functions.  For things that require project-wide discussions (and not
everything does) we can agree to discuss on ooo-dev as the main list.
Or maybe we create an ooo-general for that.

> On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>> While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed making 
>>> volunteers from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We quickly 
>>> proceeded with a Press Liaison due to the immediate need. Before settling 
>>> on a larger set of roles let's have a discussion and come to a consensus.
>>>
>>> Types of roles or teams:
>>>
>>> (1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the AOOo 
>>> project community with the many communities in the OOo universe.
>>>
>>> - Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)
>>>
>>> - Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with other 
>>> entities.
>>>
>>
>> Worf?
>>
>> But seriously, we already have a security team in place, via the
>> ooo-security list.  Their responsibilities also include security
>> co-ordination.  But we could certainly use another 2 or 3 volunteers
>> there, especially among active coders on the project.
>
> My thought is if we have someone on the PPMC who volunteers for first chance 
> to answer security questions on ooo-dev or ooo-users then we will quickly 
> have a common and measured response.
>
>>
>>> - TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and LO. 
>>> (Would we have other special relationships?)
>>>
>>
>> All our relations are special.  But I assume it would be silly to have
>> a liaison to IBM Lotus Symphony.
>>
>>> - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
>>>
>>
>> I think of that as being a marketing function.  Could break it out,
>> but these two functions would need to closely coordinate.  Maybe think
>> of it this way:  I could certainly imagine a dedicated ooo-marketing
>> mailing list.  But I don't think an ooo-branding list would get much
>> traffic.
>>
>>> - Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use are all 
>>> proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct. Seek copyright 
>>> assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this another team?)
>>>
>>
>> I think that is a core dev function, since it will mainly involve
>> changing heads in the source files, etc.  With the clarifications we
>> received from Robert, I don't see a problem here.  Also, this is not
>> an ongoing role.  Once we've done the initial IP processing, the
>> committers as a whole pay attention to IP requirements on a daily
>> basis.  So it is important for the committers as a whole to all be
>> familiar with the requirements here.
>
> I'm willing to move Legal to a different thread. We do need someone to help 
> with TOU on the migration side. It is more to have one person asking Legal, 
> not several people with variations.
>
> I haven't looked at Robert's comments other than I knew we needed to wait for 
> Andrew to comment.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>>
>>
>> -- Social media (or media in general), so press, blog, twitter,
>> facebook, etc.   Or maybe that goes with marketing?
>>
>> Obviously the answers here will depend on volunteers and how much time
>> they can dedicate to these tasks.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
 On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Donald Harbison  
 wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Dave Fisher 
>> wrote:
 Rob,

 On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Dave Fisher 
>> wrote:
>
> 
>
>> I think that "we" as the AOOo PPMC will need to find one or more PPMC
>> members to fulfill certain external roles.


 I am emphasizing EXTERNALLY facing roles. These people would generally
>> be people with the talent of handling sensitive issues in a delicate and
>> appropriate m

Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Dave Fisher]

The real point to this discussion is that the AOOo podling PPC needs a clear 
Marketing Team.

On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed making 
>> volunteers from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We quickly proceeded 
>> with a Press Liaison due to the immediate need. Before settling on a larger 
>> set of roles let's have a discussion and come to a consensus.
>> 
>> Types of roles or teams:
>> 
>> (1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the AOOo 
>> project community with the many communities in the OOo universe.
>> 
>> - Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)
>> 
>> - Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with other 
>> entities.
>> 
> 
> Worf?
> 
> But seriously, we already have a security team in place, via the
> ooo-security list.  Their responsibilities also include security
> co-ordination.  But we could certainly use another 2 or 3 volunteers
> there, especially among active coders on the project.

My thought is if we have someone on the PPMC who volunteers for first chance to 
answer security questions on ooo-dev or ooo-users then we will quickly have a 
common and measured response.

> 
>> - TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and LO. 
>> (Would we have other special relationships?)
>> 
> 
> All our relations are special.  But I assume it would be silly to have
> a liaison to IBM Lotus Symphony.
> 
>> - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
>> 
> 
> I think of that as being a marketing function.  Could break it out,
> but these two functions would need to closely coordinate.  Maybe think
> of it this way:  I could certainly imagine a dedicated ooo-marketing
> mailing list.  But I don't think an ooo-branding list would get much
> traffic.
> 
>> - Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use are all 
>> proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct. Seek copyright 
>> assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this another team?)
>> 
> 
> I think that is a core dev function, since it will mainly involve
> changing heads in the source files, etc.  With the clarifications we
> received from Robert, I don't see a problem here.  Also, this is not
> an ongoing role.  Once we've done the initial IP processing, the
> committers as a whole pay attention to IP requirements on a daily
> basis.  So it is important for the committers as a whole to all be
> familiar with the requirements here.

I'm willing to move Legal to a different thread. We do need someone to help 
with TOU on the migration side. It is more to have one person asking Legal, not 
several people with variations.

I haven't looked at Robert's comments other than I knew we needed to wait for 
Andrew to comment.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> 
> -- Social media (or media in general), so press, blog, twitter,
> facebook, etc.   Or maybe that goes with marketing?
> 
> Obviously the answers here will depend on volunteers and how much time
> they can dedicate to these tasks.
> 
> -Rob
> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Donald Harbison  
>>> wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
 
> 
> On Oct 12, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Dave Fisher 
> wrote:
>>> Rob,
>>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> 
 On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Dave Fisher 
> wrote:
 
 
 
> I think that "we" as the AOOo PPMC will need to find one or more PPMC
> members to fulfill certain external roles.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I am emphasizing EXTERNALLY facing roles. These people would generally
> be people with the talent of handling sensitive issues in a delicate and
> appropriate manner on the list when they arise seemingly out of place.
> Knowing that there are volunteers available will help the rest of us focus
> on code or migration.
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> Perhaps these roles are:
> 
> (1) Public face of Security for AOOo.
> 
 
 Work on handling security reports occurs on a private list,
 ooo-security.  It is not visible publicly, or even to the PPMC in
 general.  Where there needs to be a public communication, for example,
 to report a vulnerability, it comes from members of ooo-security.
 This is all per the recommended process from Apache Security [1].  The
 PPMC is welcome to debate and adopt contract guidelines, but I would
 not recommend it.
 
 The members of the ooo-security list are stated on our FAQ page [2]
 
 So I think that part is already covered.
>>> 
>>> Given what just happened with LO, we made improvem

Re: How start to build AOOo on WinXP

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Pedro,

Pedro Giffuni schrieb:

--- On Fri, 10/14/11, Regina Henschel  wrote:
...

Hi all,

I have download the source via 'svn co 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk'
But now I don't know how to start. There is neither a
'configure' nor a 'autogen.sh'.

I had build OOo-DEV300m106. I'm working with MSVC 2008
Express on WinXP.


Hi Regina;

Try this:

http://ooo-wiki.apache.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Windows



I know that guide, but 'configure' mentioned there, does not exist.

$ ./configure --help

results in

bash: ./configure: No such file or directory

Therefore I ask.

Kind regards
Regina

[blog] Looking for security-related questions for interview with Apache security expert

[Rob Weir]

I'm working on a future post for the AOOo project blog. The topic is
generally about security at Apache and the process of responding to
reports of security vulnerabilities, best practices, etc..  I'd like
to provide information about the "how" but also the "why" about how we
do things the way we do.

Mark Thomas, from the Apache Security Team, has consented to let me
interview him.  I'm planning to base the blog post on an edited
transcript of the interview.

To make this post as useful as possible, I'm looking for questions
from project members and users.   If you have any ideas for good
questions, please respond to this note, on
ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org,

I'm hoping to do the interview in one week.

Thanks!

-Rob

Re: How start to build AOOo on WinXP

[Pedro Giffuni]

--- On Fri, 10/14/11, Regina Henschel  wrote:
...
> Hi all,
> 
> I have download the source via 'svn co 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk'
> But now I don't know how to start. There is neither a
> 'configure' nor a 'autogen.sh'.
> 
> I had build OOo-DEV300m106. I'm working with MSVC 2008
> Express on WinXP.
>
Hi Regina;

Try this:

http://ooo-wiki.apache.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_Windows

cheers,

Pedro.

Re: [DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed making 
> volunteers from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We quickly proceeded 
> with a Press Liaison due to the immediate need. Before settling on a larger 
> set of roles let's have a discussion and come to a consensus.
>
> Types of roles or teams:
>
> (1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the AOOo 
> project community with the many communities in the OOo universe.
>
> - Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)
>
> - Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with other 
> entities.
>

Worf?

But seriously, we already have a security team in place, via the
ooo-security list.  Their responsibilities also include security
co-ordination.  But we could certainly use another 2 or 3 volunteers
there, especially among active coders on the project.

> - TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and LO. 
> (Would we have other special relationships?)
>

All our relations are special.  But I assume it would be silly to have
a liaison to IBM Lotus Symphony.

> - Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.
>

I think of that as being a marketing function.  Could break it out,
but these two functions would need to closely coordinate.  Maybe think
of it this way:  I could certainly imagine a dedicated ooo-marketing
mailing list.  But I don't think an ooo-branding list would get much
traffic.

> - Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use are all 
> proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct. Seek copyright 
> assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this another team?)
>

I think that is a core dev function, since it will mainly involve
changing heads in the source files, etc.  With the clarifications we
received from Robert, I don't see a problem here.  Also, this is not
an ongoing role.  Once we've done the initial IP processing, the
committers as a whole pay attention to IP requirements on a daily
basis.  So it is important for the committers as a whole to all be
familiar with the requirements here.


-- Social media (or media in general), so press, blog, twitter,
facebook, etc.   Or maybe that goes with marketing?

Obviously the answers here will depend on volunteers and how much time
they can dedicate to these tasks.

-Rob

> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Oct 12, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Donald Harbison  
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>>

 On Oct 12, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Dave Fisher 
 wrote:
>> Rob,
>>
>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Dave Fisher 
 wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
 I think that "we" as the AOOo PPMC will need to find one or more PPMC
 members to fulfill certain external roles.
>>
>>
>> I am emphasizing EXTERNALLY facing roles. These people would generally
 be people with the talent of handling sensitive issues in a delicate and
 appropriate manner on the list when they arise seemingly out of place.
 Knowing that there are volunteers available will help the rest of us focus
 on code or migration.
>>
>>

 Perhaps these roles are:

 (1) Public face of Security for AOOo.

>>>
>>> Work on handling security reports occurs on a private list,
>>> ooo-security.  It is not visible publicly, or even to the PPMC in
>>> general.  Where there needs to be a public communication, for example,
>>> to report a vulnerability, it comes from members of ooo-security.
>>> This is all per the recommended process from Apache Security [1].  The
>>> PPMC is welcome to debate and adopt contract guidelines, but I would
>>> not recommend it.
>>>
>>> The members of the ooo-security list are stated on our FAQ page [2]
>>>
>>> So I think that part is already covered.
>>
>> Given what just happened with LO, we made improvements. But I think that
 some member of ooo-security needs to be watching for security related
 questions as they appear on ooo-dev and ooo-users. You and Dennis are very
 vocal across the whole spectrum of AOOo issues. I think that there needs to
 be someone we all know is on top of security and can publicly contact.
>>
>> The rest of us. Me, you, or whoever should refrain from answering such
 questions (or answer with deferment and deference). This public facing
 person could generally speak for the group.
>>
 (2) Liaison with the TDF.

>>>
>>> Ideally, someone who is already both a PPMC member and a TDF member.
>>> We have several.  "Half liaisons" (someone who is a member of one
>>> organization but not the other) don't work quite as well.

How start to build AOOo on WinXP

[Regina Henschel]

Hi all,

I have download the source via 'svn co 
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/trunk'
But now I don't know how to start. There is neither a 'configure' nor a 
'autogen.sh'.


I had build OOo-DEV300m106. I'm working with MSVC 2008 Express on WinXP.

Kind regards
Regina

Re: ICC generated profiles are copylefted (was Re: A systematic approach to IP review?)

[Robert Burrell Donkin]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
> Hi;
>
> When I saw this thread about machine-generate files, I never
> imagined we would be taking about code in OpenOffice.org but
> I found that this file:
> icc/source/create_sRGB_profile/create_sRGB_profile.cpp
>
> indeed generates viral licensed code!
>
> I am proposing an obvious patch but I wanted the issue
> documented so I created bug 118512.

:-)

Robert

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Robert Burrell Donkin]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Simon Phipps  wrote:



> The question that Simon is asking is simple.  Some have read the "best
> wishes to TDF and LibreOffice" as being sarcastic and mean spirited.  I
> certainly didn't read it that way.  The issue seems to be that the paragraph
> expressing this wish was within the flow of a different story about people
> not giving AOOo its due.
>
> All that he was asking was for an official clarification that you were being
> sincere and not sarcastic because of course sarcasm isn't going to help the
> politics.  I assume the blog was on the up and up and am representing it as
> such.  Hope you can clarify..."

Apache believes in Software Darwinism.

A key meta-goal for Software Darwinists is to foster a richer and
deeper ecosystem: more players, more ideas, more disruptive
creativity. That's why the Apache License allows and encourages
downstream consumers to create interesting new products with diverse
licenses and business models. Confidence in the efficiency of our open
development model means we're comfortable with encouraging
competition. (Apache even goes so far as hosting competing projects.)

So, of course we are sincere in welcoming and celebrating innovation
by other players in the space :-)

Robert

ICC generated profiles are copylefted (was Re: A systematic approach to IP review?)

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi;

When I saw this thread about machine-generate files, I never
imagined we would be taking about code in OpenOffice.org but
I found that this file:
icc/source/create_sRGB_profile/create_sRGB_profile.cpp

indeed generates viral licensed code!

I am proposing an obvious patch but I wanted the issue
documented so I created bug 118512.

enjoy ;)

Pedro.

--- On Thu, 9/29/11, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:53 AM,
> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> > Let me recall the bidding a little here.  What I said
> was
> >
> > " It is unlikely that machine-generated files of any
> kind are copyrightable subject matter."
> >
> > You point out that computer-generated files might
> incorporate copyrightable subject matter.  I hadn't
> considered a hybrid case where copyrightable subject matter
> would subsist in such a work, and I have no idea how and to
> what extend the output qualifies as a work of authorship,
> but it is certainly a case to be reckoned with.
> >
> > Then there is the issue of macro expansion, template
> parameter substitution, etc., and the cases becomes blurrier
> and blurrier.  For example, if I wrote a program and then
> put it through the C Language pre-processor, in how much of
> the expanded result does the copyright declared on the
> original subsist?  (I am willing to concede, for purposes
> of argument, that the second is a derivative work of the
> former, even though the derivation occurred dynamically.)
> >
> > I fancy this example because it is commonplace that
> the pre-processor incorporated files that have their own
> copyright and license notices too.  Also, the original
> might include macro calls, with
> > parameters using macros defined in one or more of
> those incorporated files.
> >
> 
> Under US law:  "Copyright protection subsists, in
> accordance with this
> title, in original works of authorship fixed in any
> tangible medium of
> expression, now known or later developed, from which they
> can be
> perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either
> directly or
> with the aid of a machine or device"
> 
> IANAL, but I believe Dennis is correct that a machine
> cannot be an
> author, in terms of copyright.  But the author of that
> program might.
> It comes down to who exactly put the work into a "fixed in
> any
> tangible medium of expression".
> 
> When I used a n ordinary code editor, the machine acts as a
> tool that
> I use to create an original work. It is a tool, like a
> paintbrush.  In
> other cases, a tool can be used to transform a work.
> 
> If there is an original work in fixed form that I
> transform, then I
> may have copyright interest in the transformed work. That
> is how
> copyright law protects software binaries as well as source
> code.
> 
> As for the GNU Bison example, if I created the BNF, then I
> have
> copyright interest in the generated code.  That does
> not mean that I
> have exclusive ownership of all the generated code. 
> It might be a
> mashup of original template code from the Bison authors,
> along with
> code that is a transformation of my original grammar
> definition.  It
> isn't an either/or situation.  A work can have mixed
> authorship.
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
> > I concede that copyrightable matter can survive into a
> machine-generated file.  And I maintain that there can be
> other conditions on the use of such a file other than by
> virtue of it containing portions in which copyright
> subsists.  For example, I don't think the Copyright office
> is going to accept registration of compiled binaries any
> time soon, even though there may be conditions on the
> license of the source code that carries over onto those
> binaries.
> >
> > And, yes, it is murky all the way down.
> >
> >  - Dennis
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 22:32
> > To: 'ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org'
> > Subject: RE: A systematic approach to IP review?
> >
> > Not to put too fine a point on this, but it sounds
> like you are talking about boilerplate (and authored)
> template code that Bison incorporates in its output.  It is
> also tricky because the Bison output is computer source
> code.  That is an interesting case.
> >
> > In the US, original work of authorship is pretty
> specific in the case of literary works, which is where
> software copyright falls the last time I checked (too long
> ago, though).  I suspect that a license (in the contractual
> sense) can deal with more than copyright.  And, if Bison
> spits out copyright notices, they still only apply to that
> part of the output, if any, that qualifies as copyrightable
> subject matter.
> >
> > Has the Bison claim ever been tested in court?  Has
> anyone been pursued or challenged for infringement? I'm just
> curious.
> >
> >  - Dennis
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Norbert Thiebaud [mailto:nthieb...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 22:11
> > To: ooo-dev@incubato

[DISCUSS] Marketing Team

[Dave Fisher]

While discussing this month's PPMC Board Report we discussed making volunteers 
from the PPMC responsible for certain roles. We quickly proceeded with a Press 
Liaison due to the immediate need. Before settling on a larger set of roles 
let's have a discussion and come to a consensus.

Types of roles or teams:

(1) External or Marketing Team. Involving the relationship of the AOOo project 
community with the many communities in the OOo universe. 

- Press Liaison. (Don Harbison is currently filling this role.)

- Security Officer. Responsible for security co-ordination with other entities.

- TDF Liaison. Dedicated to the special relationship between AOOo and LO. 
(Would we have other special relationships?) 

- Brand Manager. Dedicated to the OOo brand.

- Legal Affairs. Assure that copyright, license, and terms of use are all 
proper. That the NOTICE and LICENSE files are correct. Seek copyright 
assignments from authors where helpful. (Is this another team?)

Regards,
Dave

On Oct 12, 2011, at 12:51 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Donald Harbison  wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2011, at 10:18 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> 
 On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Dave Fisher 
>>> wrote:
> Rob,
> 
> On Oct 12, 2011, at 9:34 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Dave Fisher 
>>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I think that "we" as the AOOo PPMC will need to find one or more PPMC
>>> members to fulfill certain external roles.
> 
> 
> I am emphasizing EXTERNALLY facing roles. These people would generally
>>> be people with the talent of handling sensitive issues in a delicate and
>>> appropriate manner on the list when they arise seemingly out of place.
>>> Knowing that there are volunteers available will help the rest of us focus
>>> on code or migration.
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> Perhaps these roles are:
>>> 
>>> (1) Public face of Security for AOOo.
>>> 
>> 
>> Work on handling security reports occurs on a private list,
>> ooo-security.  It is not visible publicly, or even to the PPMC in
>> general.  Where there needs to be a public communication, for example,
>> to report a vulnerability, it comes from members of ooo-security.
>> This is all per the recommended process from Apache Security [1].  The
>> PPMC is welcome to debate and adopt contract guidelines, but I would
>> not recommend it.
>> 
>> The members of the ooo-security list are stated on our FAQ page [2]
>> 
>> So I think that part is already covered.
> 
> Given what just happened with LO, we made improvements. But I think that
>>> some member of ooo-security needs to be watching for security related
>>> questions as they appear on ooo-dev and ooo-users. You and Dennis are very
>>> vocal across the whole spectrum of AOOo issues. I think that there needs to
>>> be someone we all know is on top of security and can publicly contact.
> 
> The rest of us. Me, you, or whoever should refrain from answering such
>>> questions (or answer with deferment and deference). This public facing
>>> person could generally speak for the group.
> 
>>> (2) Liaison with the TDF.
>>> 
>> 
>> Ideally, someone who is already both a PPMC member and a TDF member.
>> We have several.  "Half liaisons" (someone who is a member of one
>> organization but not the other) don't work quite as well.
> 
> Half or full is not really the issue. Diplomatic and measured response
>>> that can both speak for the group and know when to defer back to the podling
>>> is important. To me a non-TDF member might be better.
> 
>>> (3) Press Liaison.
>>> 
>> 
>> As a podling we're a bit limited here, per Podling guidelines [3], but
>> there is certainly some scope for doing good work here, if someone
>> wants to volunteer.
> 
> Someone should be looking out at the real world and letting us know
>>> what's being said about AOOo and then striving to correct the record. This
>>> needs to be someone on the PPMC. The person is this role would work with
>>> press@a.o. They would establish relationships, etc.
> 
 
 I don't think it works that way.  I wish it did, but it doesn't.
 
 What we've seen is this:
 
 1) Reporters are either monitoring this list, or more likely being
 tipped off by someone, pointing them to threads where there is juicy
 stuff.
 
 2) The write an article, quoting participants on this list. They are
 not picky.  They'll quote members and non-members alike, me, Dennis,
 Simony, whoever.
 
 3) They then publish their article.  They never post a note to the
 list, send a note to Press@, ask who our press liaison is.  They are
 getting 50 bucks to write an article in 45 minutes, and that is what
 they do.
 
 That is how it 

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Sally Khudairi]

Sorry to interject as Jim's on this, but I wanted to address one thing:

>The question that Simon is asking is simple.  Some have read the "best wishes 
>to TDF and LibreOffice" as being sarcastic and mean spirited.  I certainly 
>didn't read it that way.  The issue seems to be that the paragraph expressing 
>this wish was within the flow of a different story about people not giving 
>AOOo its due.  
>
>All that he was asking was for an official clarification that you were being 
>sincere and not sarcastic because of course sarcasm isn't going to help the 
>politics.  I assume the blog was on the up and up and am representing it as 
>such.  Hope you can clarify..."



Good lord -- by all means, we're being sincere.

The ASF doesn't speak out of both sides of its mouth; that's never how we've 
communicated with anyone.

No "corporate" platitudes here!

Warmly,
Sally

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Shane Curcuru]

I can't speak for Jim, but I can say that the spirit of "best wishes to 
the TDF and LibreOffice" is honest and sincere from my point of view.


I also believe it's sincere from the point of view of the Apache 
OpenOffice podling - there have been multiple offers to try to work 
together and explicit notes on our public lists that LibreOffice is 
always welcome to use our Apache Licensed code in any way that the 
license allows.


I also believe it's sincere on behalf of the ASF on the larger sense. 
The ASF is a non profit devoted to the public good.  The way we serve 
the public is by providing high quality software freely, under our 
permissive license.  The way we do that is the Apache Way - our 
collaborative, consensus-based, and diverse communities of individuals 
who volunteer their work to our projects.  We have no real beef 
(argument) with anyone as long as they're honest in their statements 
about us, and as long as they comply with our license and branding policies.


We are perfectly happy to have other open source groups be successful - 
even ones with technology that might (in some eyes) be seen to be 
competing with our projects.  Heck, there are several Apache projects 
that have apparently competing technologies as well - and we're happy to 
host each of them.  All we ask (for Apache projects) is that we have a 
respectful and well run volunteer community behind it that is willing to 
follow the Apache Way.


We're also perfectly happy to have other people take our code and re-use 
it: that's the whole point of our license.  We want people - the users 
of our software - to have the maximum freedom to use our software 
however they want, with the minimal restrictions as spelled out in our 
license.  So in that way, we will be happy if and when LibreOffice can 
make use of some of the code we're now working on.  Even if it may 
appear to some folks that it's a competing product.


Open source communities aren't a zero sum game.  There are plenty of 
volunteers out there.  It's up to the individuals to choose how and 
where they want to volunteer their time.  Much like you have a number of 
passionate volunteers who actively work at TDF and on LibreOffice, we 
have a number of passionate volunteers who actively work at the ASF and 
on Apache OpenOffice.


So yes, we're certainly hoping to play together nicely!

- Shane

On 10/14/2011 2:32 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

On Oct 14, 2011 7:28 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:


My only wish is that we had someone at the conference who
was supportive of the ASF and the AOOo podling in this
matter who was able to explain this in a positive light…


Well, Doug Heintzman and I are sitting together here and both willing to
pass on Apache's goodwill. All we really need is a statement saying "that PR
wasn't an attack, sorry if it seemed that way".  Here's Doug to explain:

"Hi Jim this is Doug Heintzman here (IBM).  We are actually having some very
good constructive conversations here.  We did about a 3 hour dialogue with a
very large group on the OpenOffice project and its status, aspirations and
opportunities for cooperation, which the LibreOffice conference graciously
put on their agenda along with presentations from other AOOo participants.
It went very well and was well received.  I am hopeful that we're making
good progress towards a construtive detente.

The question that Simon is asking is simple.  Some have read the "best
wishes to TDF and LibreOffice" as being sarcastic and mean spirited.  I
certainly didn't read it that way.  The issue seems to be that the paragraph
expressing this wish was within the flow of a different story about people
not giving AOOo its due.

All that he was asking was for an official clarification that you were being
sincere and not sarcastic because of course sarcasm isn't going to help the
politics.  I assume the blog was on the up and up and am representing it as
such.  Hope you can clarify..."

Greetings from Paris from us both :-)

S.

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Jim Jagielski]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 2:32 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

> On Oct 14, 2011 7:28 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:
> >
> > My only wish is that we had someone at the conference who
> > was supportive of the ASF and the AOOo podling in this
> > matter who was able to explain this in a positive light…
> 
> Well, Doug Heintzman and I are sitting together here and both willing to pass 
> on Apache's goodwill. All we really need is a statement saying "that PR 
> wasn't an attack, sorry if it seemed that way".  Here's Doug to explain:
> 
> "Hi Jim this is Doug Heintzman here (IBM).  We are actually having some very 
> good constructive conversations here.  We did about a 3 hour dialogue with a 
> very large group on the OpenOffice project and its status, aspirations and 
> opportunities for cooperation, which the LibreOffice conference graciously 
> put on their agenda along with presentations from other AOOo participants.  
> It went very well and was well received.  I am hopeful that we're making good 
> progress towards a construtive detente. 
> 
> The question that Simon is asking is simple.  Some have read the "best wishes 
> to TDF and LibreOffice" as being sarcastic and mean spirited.  I certainly 
> didn't read it that way.  The issue seems to be that the paragraph expressing 
> this wish was within the flow of a different story about people not giving 
> AOOo its due. 
> 

The sentence right before that was intended to be the "shift of flow":

"At the ASF, the answer is openness, not further fragmentation. There is ample 
room for multiple solutions in the marketplace that are Powered by Apache. We 
welcome differences of opinion: a requirement at Apache is that a healthy 
project be supported by an open, diverse community comprising multiple 
organizations and individual contributors."

The phrase directed to LO was intended to emphasize our welcoming of differing 
opinions and our belief in diverse communities of multiple organizations. It 
was also to show that we *want* LO to succeed, and we are happy that they are, 
and that they (and others) can continue to succeed without it meaning the 
"death" of any other org. So the phrase "We congratulate the LibreOffice 
community on their success over their inaugural year and wish them luck in 
their future endeavors" was meant with a true and honest heart. I can see that, 
I will personally apologize if the flow of the PR resulted in what could be 
taken as a mean spirited slight where we did not intend it.

Anyone who knows the ASF knows that we wouldn't be so petty or sarcastic as 
such a PR.

> All that he was asking was for an official clarification that you were being 
> sincere and not sarcastic because of course sarcasm isn't going to help the 
> politics.  I assume the blog was on the up and up and am representing it as 
> such.  Hope you can clarify..."
> 
> Greetings from Paris from us both :-)

As far as the PR being "an attack"… well, it wasn't an attack, but it was a 
serious and concerned statement that all the FUD needs to stop, by all entities 
engaged in it; it damages the entire OOo ecosystem and that is something that 
the ASF cannot, and will not, let slide. I am sure that TDF feels the exact 
same way.

Re: We're on slashdot!

[Simon Phipps]

On Oct 14, 2011 7:26 PM, "Danese Cooper"  wrote:

> It probably isn't a coincidence that LibreOffice Con is this weekend and
"we're the
> real deal" messaging is coming from LO and TOOo is concerned about
dilution
> of the OOo brand...

We've not seen any messaging like that here in Paris; in fact, the
LibreOffice people seem to go out of their way to  avoid any brand
confusion. Where have you seen that messaging?

S.

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Simon Phipps]

On Oct 14, 2011 7:28 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:
>
> My only wish is that we had someone at the conference who
> was supportive of the ASF and the AOOo podling in this
> matter who was able to explain this in a positive light…

Well, Doug Heintzman and I are sitting together here and both willing to
pass on Apache's goodwill. All we really need is a statement saying "that PR
wasn't an attack, sorry if it seemed that way".  Here's Doug to explain:

"Hi Jim this is Doug Heintzman here (IBM).  We are actually having some very
good constructive conversations here.  We did about a 3 hour dialogue with a
very large group on the OpenOffice project and its status, aspirations and
opportunities for cooperation, which the LibreOffice conference graciously
put on their agenda along with presentations from other AOOo participants.
It went very well and was well received.  I am hopeful that we're making
good progress towards a construtive detente.

The question that Simon is asking is simple.  Some have read the "best
wishes to TDF and LibreOffice" as being sarcastic and mean spirited.  I
certainly didn't read it that way.  The issue seems to be that the paragraph
expressing this wish was within the flow of a different story about people
not giving AOOo its due.

All that he was asking was for an official clarification that you were being
sincere and not sarcastic because of course sarcasm isn't going to help the
politics.  I assume the blog was on the up and up and am representing it as
such.  Hope you can clarify..."

Greetings from Paris from us both :-)

S.

Re: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

[Donald Harbison]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi Dennis,
>
> I plan to arrive @ApacheCon on Monday. On Tuesday I am planning to sit in
> the conference area and hack on the openoffice.org website and other
> issues.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Shane.  I was planning a day trip specifically for the meetup,
> but I
> > can't do that for an evening meeting.  That is the kind of information I
> > needed.
> >
> > Still, the meetup invitation is on the Apache announcement and there is
> no
> > information to be found using the link given at the bottom of the news
> post.
> >
> > (I see the wiki, I am one of the 5 -- about to be 4 -- who responded as
> > attending.  I don't think folks directed to the main site will find the
> wiki.)
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org]
> > Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 09:32
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon
> >
> > Specific times/locations for individual meetups are scheduled by the
> > conference organizers, often closer to the actual event itself.  It will
> > be Tues, Wed, or Thu night starting at 8pm, at the main ApacheCon show
> area.
> >
> > You can see the planning process for meetups happening here:
> >
> > http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11
> >
> > (That's a wiki not requiring an iCLA but that does require a login)
> >
> > - Shane
> >
> > On 10/14/2011 12:24 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> >> Hi Don,
> >>
> >> The Apache News item on OpenOffice.org,
> >> <
> https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_statement
> >,
> >> invites people come to the meetup at ApacheCon.  However, the meetup
> page,
> >>   on the main conference web
> is
> >> empty.
> >>
> >> Is there further information on date and time?
>

I confirmed the Apache OpenOffice Meetup for Tuesday, November 8th at 8:00
p.m. Nick Burch and the ConComm team have the action to update the wiki. I
don't know why that's taking so long, but I'll give them a poke.


> >>
> >>  - Dennis
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Donald Harbison [mailto:dpharbi...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:52
> >> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >> Subject: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon
> >>
> >> Hi Everyone,
> >>
> >> Following up to my earlier note[1] to discuss and gauge interest in a
> meetup
> >> for the project at ApacheCon.
> >>
> >> If you will be attending, and wish to participate, what topics do your
> >> propose we cover? I picked off the usual suspects; e.g. overview, dev,
> fora,
> >> qa, doc, and marketing, for the wiki entry. Those were just
> placeholders.
> >> Please help me shape this, and get the ball, snow-balling, (apologies to
> >> those in the tropics).
> >>
> >> Also, as Shane has pointed out, please hop over to the conference
> wiki[2],
> >> and plunk down your 'number' that you will attend. Right now, it's me as
> the
> >> one and only. I did hear that Dave Fisher and Ross Gardler are 'in', so
> that
> >> number should jump to a whopping '3' soon. Let's pile on.
> >>
> >> [1] http://tinyurl.com/4xy7rma
> >> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11
> >>
> >> /don
>
>

Re: Bugzilla notifications not going to an ASF mailing list

[Marcus (OOo)]

If possible I would like to volunteer as bugzilla sysadmin, e.g., to 
upgrade user accounts with more permission, like it's the currenty case 
with Pedro.


Marcus



Am 10/14/2011 07:34 PM, schrieb Dave Fisher:

Hi Mark,

Thanks. I believe that the podling PPMC needs to make sure there are people who 
are able to be sysadmins.

Is it possible for you to identify who currently has a sysadmin role in the 
AOOo BZ. Send it to ooo-private if you prefer.

Regards,
Dave

On Oct 14, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Mark Thomas wrote:


Folks,

The infrastructure team has noticed that Bugzilla updates from the OOo
instance are not being sent to any ASF mailing lists. AS part of the "if
it didn't happen on the mailing list it didn't happen" this needs to be
rectified quickly.

The infrastructure team will therefore be adding the ooo-issues list as
an automatic CC address for all projects/components in the OOo BZ
instance. This will happen sometime in the next few days.

If you want to follow issues updates, please subscribe to the ooo-issues
list.

Mark

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
 On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
  wrote:
> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
>
> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
>
> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
>
> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
>

 I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
 counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
 Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
 has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
 unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
 including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
 HTTP redirection.
>>>
>>> Not an option until we have control of the DNS.
>>>
>>
>> Exactly.  Once that happens, we could do something like redirect all
>> requests to */openoffice.org/* addresses back to existing Oracle
>> servers, except for specific URL's that we redirect to Apache pages.
>> As we migrate things we redirect more and more to Apache.  We may have
>> dozens of such redirection defined.
>>
>> What is required to make this happen, at least the first step where
>> Apache gets the initial HTTP requests and does the redirects to the
>> existing servers?  Do we need anything from Oracle?
>
> There was am email on ooo-private from Joe.
>
> Essentially. Apache Infra has to create the zone file for openoffice.org, the 
> domain registrations need to be transferred and then Apache's authoritative 
> servers take over the DNS.
>
> This is the INFRA-3898 ticket.
>
> BTW - Shane sent a large set of additional domains that we should review. He 
> did this about 6 weeks ago (IIRC)
>

I'd keep it simple to start.  Have all HTTP(S) traffic come to Apache
first and then get redirected.  Have the mail stuff go to Oracle's
servers for now.  Then set up a lightweight process where the PPMC can
change the redirects.  We can start redirect stuff almost immediately,
and build on that day-today.  But if every redirect additional takes
an Infra JIRA issue, and a delay, then that approach would not work.
We'd need to sit down and map things out more explicitly, up front,
the specific URL's and patterns.

But I do think we need some agility here.

-Rob

> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>

 -Rob

> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: Bugzilla notifications not going to an ASF mailing list

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Mark,

Thanks. I believe that the podling PPMC needs to make sure there are people who 
are able to be sysadmins.

Is it possible for you to identify who currently has a sysadmin role in the 
AOOo BZ. Send it to ooo-private if you prefer.

Regards,
Dave

On Oct 14, 2011, at 9:15 AM, Mark Thomas wrote:

> Folks,
> 
> The infrastructure team has noticed that Bugzilla updates from the OOo
> instance are not being sent to any ASF mailing lists. AS part of the "if
> it didn't happen on the mailing list it didn't happen" this needs to be
> rectified quickly.
> 
> The infrastructure team will therefore be adding the ooo-issues list as
> an automatic CC address for all projects/components in the OOo BZ
> instance. This will happen sometime in the next few days.
> 
> If you want to follow issues updates, please subscribe to the ooo-issues
> list.
> 
> Mark

Re: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Dennis,

I plan to arrive @ApacheCon on Monday. On Tuesday I am planning to sit in the 
conference area and hack on the openoffice.org website and other issues.

Regards,
Dave

On Oct 14, 2011, at 9:59 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

> Thanks, Shane.  I was planning a day trip specifically for the meetup, but I 
> can't do that for an evening meeting.  That is the kind of information I 
> needed.
> 
> Still, the meetup invitation is on the Apache announcement and there is no 
> information to be found using the link given at the bottom of the news post.
> 
> (I see the wiki, I am one of the 5 -- about to be 4 -- who responded as 
> attending.  I don't think folks directed to the main site will find the wiki.)
> 
> - Dennis
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org]
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 09:32
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon
> 
> Specific times/locations for individual meetups are scheduled by the
> conference organizers, often closer to the actual event itself.  It will
> be Tues, Wed, or Thu night starting at 8pm, at the main ApacheCon show area.
> 
> You can see the planning process for meetups happening here:
> 
> http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11
> 
> (That's a wiki not requiring an iCLA but that does require a login)
> 
> - Shane
> 
> On 10/14/2011 12:24 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> Hi Don,
>> 
>> The Apache News item on OpenOffice.org,
>> ,
>> invites people come to the meetup at ApacheCon.  However, the meetup page,
>>   on the main conference web is 
>> empty.
>> 
>> Is there further information on date and time?
>> 
>>  - Dennis
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Donald Harbison [mailto:dpharbi...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:52
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon
>> 
>> Hi Everyone,
>> 
>> Following up to my earlier note[1] to discuss and gauge interest in a meetup
>> for the project at ApacheCon.
>> 
>> If you will be attending, and wish to participate, what topics do your
>> propose we cover? I picked off the usual suspects; e.g. overview, dev, fora,
>> qa, doc, and marketing, for the wiki entry. Those were just placeholders.
>> Please help me shape this, and get the ball, snow-balling, (apologies to
>> those in the tropics).
>> 
>> Also, as Shane has pointed out, please hop over to the conference wiki[2],
>> and plunk down your 'number' that you will attend. Right now, it's me as the
>> one and only. I did hear that Dave Fisher and Ross Gardler are 'in', so that
>> number should jump to a whopping '3' soon. Let's pile on.
>> 
>> [1] http://tinyurl.com/4xy7rma
>> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11
>> 
>> /don

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Jim Jagielski]

My only wish is that we had someone at the conference who
was supportive of the ASF and the AOOo podling in this
matter who was able to explain this in a positive light…
I've encouraged Charles Schulz of the TDF to reach out to
me, directly, should that not be clear and to emphasize
both the ASF's true joy in the success that they have achieved
with LO as well as our continued, fervent hope of deep,
valuable collaboration to the betterment of the entire
OpenOffice ecosystem (as well to all other OpenOffice ecosystem
entities!)

On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:18 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

> On Oct 14, 2011 7:12 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:
> 
>> The intent is address anyone and everyone who is creating the FUD.
>> 
>> Was the Team OpenOffice PR the straw the broke the camel's back?
>> Pretty much, yeah. Are they the only "guilty" party? Hardly.
>> Are we pointing fingers at who are? Nope, they know who they are
>> themselves without us doing it for them.
> 
> If that is the message you want passed on, so be it.
> 
> S.

Re: We're on slashdot!

[Danese Cooper]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Donald Whytock  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>  wrote:
>> I've read through the German materials at the site and, while Google 
>> Translator does stumble, the gist of it is pretty clear.  This has all the 
>> appearance of an over-the-top plea to fund 4 guys to save OpenOffice.org 
>> from death-by-abandonment.  To further the confusion, the download link for 
>> OpenOffice.org 3.3 is into .  The "Thank you 
>> for your contribution" after a Paypal donation (they have my 5 Euro) is also 
>> a page on http://openoffice.org.
> 
> Is it even four guys?  They list five title-related email addresses
> and give the same phone number five times.  If I didn't know Team OO
> existed before now I'd wonder if someone had just built a site from
> random images.

Team OpenOffice.org is a German non-profit started by some people in the 
Hamburg office back when OO.o was newly open-sourced to collect and handle 
monies to support community events. Sun employees started it "extra" to their 
day jobs, and many sources sent it money (including individuals and companies 
such as IBM). Sun didn't want to collect / handle such donations directly, and 
the Hamburg guys needed a way to pay for conferences, etc. Much if their 
dispersement has historically been to individual community members in support 
of travel to OOo conferences.

Team OpenOffice.org did undertake and secure the global registration of the 
OpenOffice.org trademark because Sun was initially content to leave it 
unregistered since first use in the US provides some protection, but after Team 
OpenOffice.org secured the mark legally they were asked to transfer it to Sun 
and did so...they were all Sun employees afterall.

"They" are currently five of the engineers who have been working on OpenOffice 
for much of their lives (20+ years in more than one case). This code is their 
baby, and for better or worse they wish to continue to produce a product the 
way they think it should be done. They have expressed interest in seeing AOO.o 
become a viable upstream.

I think what's happening now is reporters trying to make sense of a complicated 
story with many factions. It probably isn't a coincidence that LibreOffice Con 
is this weekend and "we're the real deal" messaging is coming from LO and TOOo 
is concerned about dilution of the OOo brand...

My $.02
Danese

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Jim Jagielski]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:18 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

> On Oct 14, 2011 7:12 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:
> 
>> The intent is address anyone and everyone who is creating the FUD.
>> 
>> Was the Team OpenOffice PR the straw the broke the camel's back?
>> Pretty much, yeah. Are they the only "guilty" party? Hardly.
>> Are we pointing fingers at who are? Nope, they know who they are
>> themselves without us doing it for them.
> 
> If that is the message you want passed on, so be it.

That's hardly a fair synopsis… it would be like the English
reading the US Declaration of Independence, being confused by
it and someone "clarifying" by saying "King George is a bloody bastard".

I will repeat:
As I said, the PR has 2 functions: To discourage (and clarify) the FUD being 
spread around regarding OpenOffice and to remind all that the OpenOffice 
ecosystem is fine, and will continue to be fine, as long as we all work 
together (and continue to encourage that).

FOSS requires not only collaboration between developers, but also between 
communities.

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Dave Fisher]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
>>>  wrote:
 One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
 
 "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
 http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
 
 It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
 
 Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
 
>>> 
>>> I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
>>> counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
>>> Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
>>> has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
>>> unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
>>> including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
>>> HTTP redirection.
>> 
>> Not an option until we have control of the DNS.
>> 
> 
> Exactly.  Once that happens, we could do something like redirect all
> requests to */openoffice.org/* addresses back to existing Oracle
> servers, except for specific URL's that we redirect to Apache pages.
> As we migrate things we redirect more and more to Apache.  We may have
> dozens of such redirection defined.
> 
> What is required to make this happen, at least the first step where
> Apache gets the initial HTTP requests and does the redirects to the
> existing servers?  Do we need anything from Oracle?

There was am email on ooo-private from Joe.

Essentially. Apache Infra has to create the zone file for openoffice.org, the 
domain registrations need to be transferred and then Apache's authoritative 
servers take over the DNS.

This is the INFRA-3898 ticket.

BTW - Shane sent a large set of additional domains that we should review. He 
did this about 6 weeks ago (IIRC)

Regards,
Dave



> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> 
>>> -Rob
>>> 
 Ross
 
 --
 Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
 Programme Leader (Open Development)
 OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
 
>> 
>> 

Re: How about a new branch for the legal changes? (was Re: A systematic approach to IP review?)

[Andrew Rist]

On 10/14/2011 8:58 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

--- On Fri, 10/14/11, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
...

A branch would save us from having say... 1000 commits
with header changes in the history.

Apache uses version control as the canonical record. It's
therefore essential to know why a header was changed and
by whom.


And of course the branch would be on SVN so the history for
the legal changes wouldn't be lost. Of course I meant this
only for the SGA, but ultimately it depends on the people
applying in and from what I understand now, *I* won't be
touching any headers :).

thanks for all these explanations,

Pedro.


Robert & Pedro,

I intend to get started on the headers in the very near future.
My intention is to do a series of checkins by project/directory in the 
source tree, matching the changes to the grant(s).
I have a bit of sequencing of activities before I start, but this is 
next up on the list.


Andrew

--


Oracle Email Signature Logo
Andrew Rist | Interoperability Architect
Oracle Corporate Architecture Group
Redwood Shores, CA | 650.506.9847

Re: We're on slashdot!

[Donald Whytock]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Simon Phipps  wrote:
> On Oct 14, 2011 7:04 PM, "Donald Whytock"  wrote:
>> Is it even four guys?  They list five title-related email addresses
>> and give the same phone number five times.  If I didn't know Team OO
>> existed before now I'd wonder if someone had just built a site from
>> random images.
>
> Many of us know the people involved very well and regard them as friends,
> which is I assume why there's been no discussion of the matter on this list
> before now. The company was informally created by a group of Sun Hamburg
> staff and is the steward of the (apparently considerable) donations of the
> community over the last few years, made through a link on the OOo home page.

Ah.  My apologies; I regret that my first exposure to them came via
that press release.

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Jim Jagielski]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:12 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

> On Oct 14, 2011 7:07 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" 
> wrote:
> 
>> My unsolicited advice:
>> 
>> There are several topics in the single announcement from ASF.  My
>> recommendation is to read the paragraph that mentions TDF as independent
> of
>> the other material.  From here, it looked like an olive branch.  It's
>> unfortunate that it looks like a barbed spear to some at the other end.
> 
> Fine advice, but my opinion and yours interpreting Apache's official
> statement won't hold much weight; it needs official clarification, which is
> why I'm glad Jim has engaged here. I hope he or Sally will provide the
> necessary clarification which I'll be pleased to pass on tomorrow.
> 

As I said, the PR has 2 functions: To discourage (and clarify) the FUD being 
spread around regarding OpenOffice and to remind all that the OpenOffice 
ecosystem is fine, and will continue to be fine, as long as we all work 
together (and continue to encourage that).

FOSS requires not only collaboration between developers, but also between 
communities.

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Simon Phipps]

On Oct 14, 2011 7:12 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:

> The intent is address anyone and everyone who is creating the FUD.
>
> Was the Team OpenOffice PR the straw the broke the camel's back?
> Pretty much, yeah. Are they the only "guilty" party? Hardly.
> Are we pointing fingers at who are? Nope, they know who they are
> themselves without us doing it for them.

If that is the message you want passed on, so be it.

S.

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Andrew Rist]

On 10/14/2011 8:49 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
  wrote:

One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:

"Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";

It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.

Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.


I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
HTTP redirection.

+1
We seem very close to transferring the DNS to Apache - at that point it 
will be very easy to do this.
As a general rule, I think we should be looking toward fixing issues on 
the Apache side, as opposed to putting effort into mucking with the 
content still hosted by Oracle.  So, instead of spending time changing 
the templates and favicon for the sites hosted on Kenai, we should be 
looking to turn on the content hosted at Apache. (just my view...)
Most urgent is the transfer of the DNS, the Forum, and the Wiki.The 
stuff hosted at services.openoffice.org is living on borrowed time, and 
we need to look at who can help admin the instances hosted at Apache so 
that we can do a switch over.



A.


-Rob


Ross

--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Dave Fisher]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Donald Harbison wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
>> There are already comments that require response.
>> 
>> Don H? Shane?
>> 
>> 
> Links please. There's alot, so I'm interested to see which ones you feel are
> priority.

I was referring to this comment:

Posted by www.meneame.net on October 14, 2011 at 12:54 PM GMT+00:00 #

Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months: 
http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300

Which was answered by Ross.

I am avoiding making any comments... my parents taught me ... although I 
sometimes forget ...

Regards,
Dave

> 
> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> On Oct 14, 2011, at 5:07 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>> 
>>> The press@ team has a new blog entry/announce@ about general issues
>> around the transition from the previous OpenOffice.org project to the new
>> Apache OpenOffice.org podling.
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_statement
>>> 
>>> (Argh, my mail client may have wrapped the line.)  For a short link
>> suitable for tweeting, etc., please use:
>>> 
>>> http://s.apache.org/XCP
>>> 
>>> - Shane
>> 
>> 

Re: We're on slashdot!

[Simon Phipps]

On Oct 14, 2011 7:04 PM, "Donald Whytock"  wrote:
> Is it even four guys?  They list five title-related email addresses
> and give the same phone number five times.  If I didn't know Team OO
> existed before now I'd wonder if someone had just built a site from
> random images.

Many of us know the people involved very well and regard them as friends,
which is I assume why there's been no discussion of the matter on this list
before now. The company was informally created by a group of Sun Hamburg
staff and is the steward of the (apparently considerable) donations of the
community over the last few years, made through a link on the OOo home page.

S.

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
>>  wrote:
>>> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
>>>
>>> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
>>> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
>>>
>>> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
>>>
>>> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
>>>
>>
>> I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
>> counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
>> Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
>> has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
>> unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
>> including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
>> HTTP redirection.
>
> Not an option until we have control of the DNS.
>

Exactly.  Once that happens, we could do something like redirect all
requests to */openoffice.org/* addresses back to existing Oracle
servers, except for specific URL's that we redirect to Apache pages.
As we migrate things we redirect more and more to Apache.  We may have
dozens of such redirection defined.

What is required to make this happen, at least the first step where
Apache gets the initial HTTP requests and does the redirects to the
existing servers?  Do we need anything from Oracle?

-Rob


> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> Ross
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>>
>
>

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Jim Jagielski]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

> On Oct 14, 2011 6:22 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:
> >
> > If LibreOffice, as an entity, or people "behind" or "involved"
> > with LO are guilty of the above, then of course the PR applies
> > to them. If innocent, then of course it does not.
> 
> I'm not sure that response is going to create much goodwill if I relay it.
> 
> I read the release as being a response to the publicity created by Team 
> OpenOffice, but since they are not mentioned in it and LibreOffice is (in 
> words spookily reminiscent of Oracle wishing TDF every success for the future 
> a year ago), people are reading it as aimed at them. So to be clear, is the 
> intent here to address Team OpenOffice?

The intent is address anyone and everyone who is creating the FUD.

Was the Team OpenOffice PR the straw the broke the camel's back?
Pretty much, yeah. Are they the only "guilty" party? Hardly.
Are we pointing fingers at who are? Nope, they know who they are
themselves without us doing it for them.

RE: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Simon Phipps]

On Oct 14, 2011 7:07 PM, "Dennis E. Hamilton" 
wrote:

> My unsolicited advice:
>
> There are several topics in the single announcement from ASF.  My
> recommendation is to read the paragraph that mentions TDF as independent
of
> the other material.  From here, it looked like an olive branch.  It's
> unfortunate that it looks like a barbed spear to some at the other end.

Fine advice, but my opinion and yours interpreting Apache's official
statement won't hold much weight; it needs official clarification, which is
why I'm glad Jim has engaged here. I hope he or Sally will provide the
necessary clarification which I'll be pleased to pass on tomorrow.

S.

RE: We're on slashdot!

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Here is "the team" in Team OpenOffice.org:




 - Dennis E. Hamilton
   tools for document interoperability,  
   dennis.hamil...@acm.org  gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid



-Original Message-
From: Donald Whytock [mailto:dwhyt...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:04
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org
Subject: Re: We're on slashdot!

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
 wrote:
> I've read through the German materials at the site and, while Google 
> Translator does stumble, the gist of it is pretty clear.  This has all the 
> appearance of an over-the-top plea to fund 4 guys to save OpenOffice.org 
> from death-by-abandonment.  To further the confusion, the download link for 
> OpenOffice.org 3.3 is into .  The "Thank you 
> for your contribution" after a Paypal donation (they have my 5 Euro) is also 
> a page on http://openoffice.org.

Is it even four guys?  They list five title-related email addresses
and give the same phone number five times.  If I didn't know Team OO
existed before now I'd wonder if someone had just built a site from
random images.


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

RE: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Simon,

My unsolicited advice:

There are several topics in the single announcement from ASF.  My 
recommendation is to read the paragraph that mentions TDF as independent of 
the other material.  From here, it looked like an olive branch.  It's 
unfortunate that it looks like a barbed spear to some at the other end.

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Simon Phipps [mailto:si...@webmink.com]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 09:58
To: Jim Jagielski
Cc: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; pr...@apache.org Publicity
Subject: Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

On Oct 14, 2011 6:22 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:
>
> If LibreOffice, as an entity, or people "behind" or "involved"
> with LO are guilty of the above, then of course the PR applies
> to them. If innocent, then of course it does not.

I'm not sure that response is going to create much goodwill if I relay it.

I read the release as being a response to the publicity created by Team
OpenOffice, but since they are not mentioned in it and LibreOffice is (in
words spookily reminiscent of Oracle wishing TDF every success for the
future a year ago), people are reading it as aimed at them. So to be clear,
is the intent here to address Team OpenOffice?

S.


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: We're on slashdot!

[Donald Whytock]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
 wrote:
> I've read through the German materials at the site and, while Google 
> Translator does stumble, the gist of it is pretty clear.  This has all the 
> appearance of an over-the-top plea to fund 4 guys to save OpenOffice.org from 
> death-by-abandonment.  To further the confusion, the download link for 
> OpenOffice.org 3.3 is into .  The "Thank you 
> for your contribution" after a Paypal donation (they have my 5 Euro) is also 
> a page on http://openoffice.org.

Is it even four guys?  They list five title-related email addresses
and give the same phone number five times.  If I didn't know Team OO
existed before now I'd wonder if someone had just built a site from
random images.

RE: We're on slashdot!

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Well, the demonstration of initial confusion in the Team OpenOffice.org 
approach is certainly clear.  The teamopenoffice press release is assumed to be 
"from" OpenOffice.org in the Slashdot lede.  (To help with that, apparently 
Team OO.o holds an OO.o trademark or claimed to at one point.)

I've read through the German materials at the site and, while Google Translator 
does stumble, the gist of it is pretty clear.  This has all the appearance of 
an over-the-top plea to fund 4 guys to save OpenOffice.org from 
death-by-abandonment.  To further the confusion, the download link for 
OpenOffice.org 3.3 is into .  The "Thank you 
for your contribution" after a Paypal donation (they have my 5 Euro) is also a 
page on http://openoffice.org.  

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org] 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 08:46
To: ASF Marketing & Publicity; ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: We're on slashdot!

Oh, my what an... extraordinarily colorful and controversial set of 
quotes to rip out of the middle of different postings they put together:

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/10/14/1531252/OpenOffice-Is-Dying-And-IBM-Wont-Help

And boy, are there some misunderstandings out there.

- Shane

RE: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Thanks, Shane.  I was planning a day trip specifically for the meetup, but I 
can't do that for an evening meeting.  That is the kind of information I 
needed.

Still, the meetup invitation is on the Apache announcement and there is no 
information to be found using the link given at the bottom of the news post.

(I see the wiki, I am one of the 5 -- about to be 4 -- who responded as 
attending.  I don't think folks directed to the main site will find the wiki.)

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Shane Curcuru [mailto:a...@shanecurcuru.org]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 09:32
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

Specific times/locations for individual meetups are scheduled by the
conference organizers, often closer to the actual event itself.  It will
be Tues, Wed, or Thu night starting at 8pm, at the main ApacheCon show area.

You can see the planning process for meetups happening here:

http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11

(That's a wiki not requiring an iCLA but that does require a login)

- Shane

On 10/14/2011 12:24 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
> The Apache News item on OpenOffice.org,
> ,
> invites people come to the meetup at ApacheCon.  However, the meetup page,
>   on the main conference web is 
> empty.
>
> Is there further information on date and time?
>
>   - Dennis
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Donald Harbison [mailto:dpharbi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:52
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Following up to my earlier note[1] to discuss and gauge interest in a meetup
> for the project at ApacheCon.
>
> If you will be attending, and wish to participate, what topics do your
> propose we cover? I picked off the usual suspects; e.g. overview, dev, fora,
> qa, doc, and marketing, for the wiki entry. Those were just placeholders.
> Please help me shape this, and get the ball, snow-balling, (apologies to
> those in the tropics).
>
> Also, as Shane has pointed out, please hop over to the conference wiki[2],
> and plunk down your 'number' that you will attend. Right now, it's me as the
> one and only. I did hear that Dave Fisher and Ross Gardler are 'in', so that
> number should jump to a whopping '3' soon. Let's pile on.
>
> [1] http://tinyurl.com/4xy7rma
> [2] http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11
>
> /don


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Simon Phipps]

On Oct 14, 2011 6:22 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:
>
> If LibreOffice, as an entity, or people "behind" or "involved"
> with LO are guilty of the above, then of course the PR applies
> to them. If innocent, then of course it does not.

I'm not sure that response is going to create much goodwill if I relay it.

I read the release as being a response to the publicity created by Team
OpenOffice, but since they are not mentioned in it and LibreOffice is (in
words spookily reminiscent of Oracle wishing TDF every success for the
future a year ago), people are reading it as aimed at them. So to be clear,
is the intent here to address Team OpenOffice?

S.

Re: Wanting

[Kay Schenk]

Aaron--

You might want to take a look at:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/User+Guides

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Aaron Steen  wrote:

> to register and write documentation.
>
> --
> Aaron Steen
> Staff Writer, Goblin 
> Editor, Arcade Fire News 
>



-- 
---
MzK

"There is no such thing as coincidence."
   -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39

Re: We're on slashdot!

[Kay Schenk]

Well I'd have to write a book to respond to SO many "interesting" ideas, so
I guess I'll remain mum. The truth is out there...well several
interpretations of it anyway.

The press release that came out today was very good by the way.


On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Shane Curcuru  wrote:

> Oh, my what an... extraordinarily colorful and controversial set of quotes
> to rip out of the middle of different postings they put together:
>
> http://developers.slashdot.**org/story/11/10/14/1531252/**
> OpenOffice-Is-Dying-And-IBM-**Wont-Help
>
> And boy, are there some misunderstandings out there.
>
> - Shane
>



-- 
---
MzK

"There is no such thing as coincidence."
   -- Leroy Jethro Gibbs, Rule #39

Re: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

[Shane Curcuru]

Specific times/locations for individual meetups are scheduled by the 
conference organizers, often closer to the actual event itself.  It will 
be Tues, Wed, or Thu night starting at 8pm, at the main ApacheCon show area.


You can see the planning process for meetups happening here:

http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11

(That's a wiki not requiring an iCLA but that does require a login)

- Shane

On 10/14/2011 12:24 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:

Hi Don,

The Apache News item on OpenOffice.org,
,
invites people come to the meetup at ApacheCon.  However, the meetup page,
  on the main conference web is empty.

Is there further information on date and time?

  - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Donald Harbison [mailto:dpharbi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:52
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

Hi Everyone,

Following up to my earlier note[1] to discuss and gauge interest in a meetup
for the project at ApacheCon.

If you will be attending, and wish to participate, what topics do your
propose we cover? I picked off the usual suspects; e.g. overview, dev, fora,
qa, doc, and marketing, for the wiki entry. Those were just placeholders.
Please help me shape this, and get the ball, snow-balling, (apologies to
those in the tropics).

Also, as Shane has pointed out, please hop over to the conference wiki[2],
and plunk down your 'number' that you will attend. Right now, it's me as the
one and only. I did hear that Dave Fisher and Ross Gardler are 'in', so that
number should jump to a whopping '3' soon. Let's pile on.

[1] http://tinyurl.com/4xy7rma
[2] http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11

/don

Re: Hosting OpenGrok?

[Daniel Shahaf]

Someone asked this a couple of weeks ago, IIRC the answer was (a) need
to evaluate this, (b) viewvc (which is already installed) has
a search feature, whether it would be sufficient.

Rob Weir wrote on Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 18:58:27 -0400:
> The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code
> searching, cross reference application called "OpenGrok"[2].  It is
> very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo.
> 
> Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache?  If not, is there an alternative
> that other projects are using?  Or are most other projects small
> enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient?
> 
> The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include
> GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later)  with Java at least 1.6, and
> Exuberant Ctags [4]
> 
> Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server
> support have at Apache?  Easy, medium or hard?
> 
> If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache
> infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can
> find a volunteer to drive it.  But I wanted to check first to see if
> this looked reasonable.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
> [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/
> [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome
> [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescription
> [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/

RE: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Hi Don,

The Apache News item on OpenOffice.org, 
,
 
invites people come to the meetup at ApacheCon.  However, the meetup page, 
 on the main conference web is empty.

Is there further information on date and time?

 - Dennis

-Original Message-
From: Donald Harbison [mailto:dpharbi...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 11:52
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: [PROPOSAL]Apache OpenOffice.org Meetup @ApacheCon

Hi Everyone,

Following up to my earlier note[1] to discuss and gauge interest in a meetup
for the project at ApacheCon.

If you will be attending, and wish to participate, what topics do your
propose we cover? I picked off the usual suspects; e.g. overview, dev, fora,
qa, doc, and marketing, for the wiki entry. Those were just placeholders.
Please help me shape this, and get the ball, snow-balling, (apologies to
those in the tropics).

Also, as Shane has pointed out, please hop over to the conference wiki[2],
and plunk down your 'number' that you will attend. Right now, it's me as the
one and only. I did hear that Dave Fisher and Ross Gardler are 'in', so that
number should jump to a whopping '3' soon. Let's pile on.

[1] http://tinyurl.com/4xy7rma
[2] http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/ApacheMeetupsNa11

/don


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Jim Jagielski]

As the PR states, there is a lot of FUD floating around from
*many* people and orgs that OpenOffice is dead, that the Open
Office podling has failed, that to keep Open Office "alive"
people must cough up money to help make that happen, etc…

Whereas it is in the self-interest of those entities to
create this confusion, no matter how much it damages the
entire Open Office ecosystem, the ASF is trying to set the
record straight, and clearly indicate that the potential
for Open Office is brighter than it has ever been, as long
as we all work together. Open Office is alive. The podling is
doing quite well. That donations are not being solicited or
"required" to keep Open Office as a viable codebase, etc...

If LibreOffice, as an entity, or people "behind" or "involved"
with LO are guilty of the above, then of course the PR applies
to them. If innocent, then of course it does not.

We are not pointing fingers at all; if people think it does
apply to them, the real issue is for them to do some soul
searching and honestly ask themselves why they feel that way.

On Oct 14, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:

> Folk here at the LibreOffice conference are asking me why Apache has put out
> a release they read as implying criticism of LibreOffice. Can you give me a
> response I can give them please? I'll be speaking at the closing session on
> Saturday.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> S.
> On Oct 14, 2011 2:07 PM, "Shane Curcuru"  wrote:
> 
>> The press@ team has a new blog entry/announce@ about general issues around
>> the transition from the previous OpenOffice.org project to the new Apache
>> OpenOffice.org podling.
>> 
>> http://blogs.apache.org/**foundation/entry/the_apache_**
>> software_foundation_statement
>> 
>> (Argh, my mail client may have wrapped the line.)  For a short link
>> suitable for tweeting, etc., please use:
>> 
>> http://s.apache.org/XCP
>> 
>> - Shane
>> 

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Donald Harbison]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> There are already comments that require response.
>
> Don H? Shane?
>
>
Links please. There's alot, so I'm interested to see which ones you feel are
priority.


> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 5:07 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
>
> > The press@ team has a new blog entry/announce@ about general issues
> around the transition from the previous OpenOffice.org project to the new
> Apache OpenOffice.org podling.
> >
> >
> http://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_statement
> >
> > (Argh, my mail client may have wrapped the line.)  For a short link
> suitable for tweeting, etc., please use:
> >
> >  http://s.apache.org/XCP
> >
> > - Shane
>
>

Bugzilla notifications not going to an ASF mailing list

[Mark Thomas]

Folks,

The infrastructure team has noticed that Bugzilla updates from the OOo
instance are not being sent to any ASF mailing lists. AS part of the "if
it didn't happen on the mailing list it didn't happen" this needs to be
rectified quickly.

The infrastructure team will therefore be adding the ooo-issues list as
an automatic CC address for all projects/components in the OOo BZ
instance. This will happen sometime in the next few days.

If you want to follow issues updates, please subscribe to the ooo-issues
list.

Mark

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Daniel Shahaf]

Dave Fisher wrote on Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 08:56:10 -0700:
> 
> On Oct 14, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
> >  wrote:
> >> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
> >> 
> >> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
> >> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
> >> 
> >> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
> >> 
> >> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
> >> 
> > 
> > I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
> > counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
> > Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
> > has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
> > unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
> > including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
> > HTTP redirection.
> 
> Not an option until we have control of the DNS.

Can someone with commit access to hg.s.o.o add a note to the README file?

Re:Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Simon Phipps]

Folk here at the LibreOffice conference are asking me why Apache has put out
a release they read as implying criticism of LibreOffice. Can you give me a
response I can give them please? I'll be speaking at the closing session on
Saturday.

Cheers

S.
On Oct 14, 2011 2:07 PM, "Shane Curcuru"  wrote:

> The press@ team has a new blog entry/announce@ about general issues around
> the transition from the previous OpenOffice.org project to the new Apache
> OpenOffice.org podling.
>
> http://blogs.apache.org/**foundation/entry/the_apache_**
> software_foundation_statement
>
> (Argh, my mail client may have wrapped the line.)  For a short link
> suitable for tweeting, etc., please use:
>
>  http://s.apache.org/XCP
>
> - Shane
>

Re: How about a new branch for the legal changes? (was Re: A systematic approach to IP review?)

[Pedro Giffuni]

--- On Fri, 10/14/11, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
...
> 
> > A branch would save us from having say... 1000 commits
> > with header changes in the history.
> 
> Apache uses version control as the canonical record. It's
> therefore essential to know why a header was changed and
> by whom.
>

And of course the branch would be on SVN so the history for
the legal changes wouldn't be lost. Of course I meant this
only for the SGA, but ultimately it depends on the people
applying in and from what I understand now, *I* won't be
touching any headers :).

thanks for all these explanations,

Pedro.

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Dave Fisher]

On Oct 14, 2011, at 8:49 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
>  wrote:
>> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
>> 
>> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
>> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
>> 
>> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
>> 
>> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
>> 
> 
> I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
> counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
> Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
> has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
> unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
> including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
> HTTP redirection.

Not an option until we have control of the DNS.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> -Rob
> 
>> Ross
>> 
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>> 

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Ross Gardler]

On 14 October 2011 16:51, Rob Weir  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ross Gardler
>  wrote:
>> And while we are at it can we do anything about
>> https://www.ohloh.net/p/openoffice - why did we create a new OhLoh
>> project rather than update the old one?
>>
>
> As previously discussed, this is work in progress.  I've succeeded in
> contacting the admin of the "old" Ohloh account and have a request
> with the Ohloh site to merge the two.

great, thanks Rob. I missed the earlier discussion.

Ross

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Ross Gardler]

On 14 October 2011 16:49, Rob Weir  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
>  wrote:
>> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
>>
>> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
>> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
>>
>> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
>>
>> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
>>
>
> I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
> counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
> Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
> has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
> unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
> including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
> HTTP redirection.

Agreed - so can we make it happen?

Ross

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Ross Gardler
 wrote:
> And while we are at it can we do anything about
> https://www.ohloh.net/p/openoffice - why did we create a new OhLoh
> project rather than update the old one?
>

As previously discussed, this is work in progress.  I've succeeded in
contacting the admin of the "old" Ohloh account and have a request
with the Ohloh site to merge the two.

-Rob

> On 14 October 2011 16:26, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
>>
>> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
>> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
>>
>> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
>>
>> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>> --
>> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Rob Weir]

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Ross Gardler
 wrote:
> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
>
> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
>
> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
>
> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
>

I think we should be redirecting common legacy URLs to their new
counterpoints rather than simply closing or deleting things.
Otherwise someone, like the commenter, will not just think the code
has not been touched in 6 months.  They will think that the code is
unavailable entirely.  The issue is external links into the project,
including links from the Google search index.  You deal with that with
HTTP redirection.

-Rob

> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>

We're on slashdot!

[Shane Curcuru]

Oh, my what an... extraordinarily colorful and controversial set of 
quotes to rip out of the middle of different postings they put together:


http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/10/14/1531252/OpenOffice-Is-Dying-And-IBM-Wont-Help

And boy, are there some misunderstandings out there.

- Shane

Request for permission bits set in my bugzilla account

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hello guys;

I am a committer and I am not afraid to commit patches ;-).

Committing patches from the bugzilla database should
involve being able to close issues, but that is
not in my power. I never had an @openoffice.org account
so that may have some relationship with my current
configuration.

I've been told by people @infra that user permissions in
bugzilla database are managed by the ooo community. I am
not sure who would is in charge, but if there's no one
designated for this yet the PPMC will want to take
control.

best regards,

Pedro.

Re: Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Ross Gardler]

And while we are at it can we do anything about
https://www.ohloh.net/p/openoffice - why did we create a new OhLoh
project rather than update the old one?

On 14 October 2011 16:26, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:
>
> "Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
> http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";
>
> It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.
>
> Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.
>
> Ross
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>



-- 
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

Can we close the old mercury servers?

[Ross Gardler]

One of the comments on the Foundation blog is:

"Unless I'm mistaken, nothing has happened in the last 6 months:
http://hg.services.openoffice.org/DEV300";

It is perfectly understandable why someone would make this mistake.

Can we please do something about the old Mercury servers.

Ross

-- 
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com

Re: Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Dave Fisher]

There are already comments that require response.

Don H? Shane?

Regards,
Dave

On Oct 14, 2011, at 5:07 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:

> The press@ team has a new blog entry/announce@ about general issues around 
> the transition from the previous OpenOffice.org project to the new Apache 
> OpenOffice.org podling.
> 
> http://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_statement
> 
> (Argh, my mail client may have wrapped the line.)  For a short link suitable 
> for tweeting, etc., please use:
> 
>  http://s.apache.org/XCP
> 
> - Shane

Re: Anti-grain Geometry (was Re: Solve SVG visualization without cairo and librsvg)

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi;

--- On Thu, 10/13/11, Thorsten Behrens  wrote:

> Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> > AGG stays. It's used here:
> > 
> > canvas/source/tools/canvastools.flt
> > canvas/source/tools/image.cxx 
> > 
> image.cxx is dead code as well. both can go, with agg.
> 

I have a patch that updates agg to version 2.4 and
disables agg in configure.in, therefore bringing
the best of both worlds without removing any code.

Unfortunately it's untested and the build on my
platform is broken, so I can't commit it yet.

Pedro.

ps. it's in Bugzilla 118508, if someone wants to try.

Re: Solve SVG visualization without cairo and librsvg

[Armin Le Grand]

Hi Regina,

On 13.10.2011 22:42, Regina Henschel wrote:

Hi Armin,

Armin Le Grand schrieb:

Hi Dave,

On 11.10.2011 19:33, Dave Fisher wrote:

Hi Armin,

Sorry for the delayed response. I'm more a project manager than coder
these days.


Ah. Now I'm late, since I'm more a coder than a project manager ;-)


I have a more overall than detailed view. There is a lot
of value in the Java2D approach - it can provide a gateway to a large
number of output formats.


I was more looking for examples parsing SVG. You talk about writing SVG,
is that correct? I'm currently in reading SVG, so if someone has
examples, let me know. I also welcome SVG files which contain the more
unusual stuff as examples. So, if someone has already put time into this
and has good examples (or example files which cover most of SVG) I would
be happy.



Shouldn't the test suites from w3.org cover all SVG commands?
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview


Yes, already looking at those. Thanks!


The download contains a folder with the pure svg files.

Kind regards
Regina




Sincerely,
Armin
--
ALG

Re: Anti-grain Geometry (was Re: Solve SVG visualization without cairo and librsvg)

[Thorsten Behrens]

Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> AGG stays. It's used here:
> 
> canvas/source/tools/canvastools.flt
> canvas/source/tools/image.cxx 
> 
image.cxx is dead code as well. both can go, with agg.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


pgpRpxR25jtd3.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [legal] How to clarify, if usage of Boost C++ source libraries is allowed

[Shane Curcuru]

On 9/28/2011 7:44 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
...snip...

In particular, should be forcing the questions by proposing a
categorization and seeking lazy consensus?  For example, "If there are
no objections within 3 days to treating the Boost Licence as Category
A compatible, then we assume lazy consensus and go forward with that
treatment"


For legal issues - unless there is some truly overriding urgency to the 
matter - I would definitely use a much longer period for any 
legally-related lazy consensus question.


Unlike code changes (which can be reversed) or releases (which can be 
replaced by a new one), some legal-related actions are not so easy to 
undo.  Between that and the relative number of experienced legal 
volunteers (few) vs. technical ones (many), please use patience when 
dealing with legal questions.


- Shane

Re: [legal] How to clarify, if usage of Boost C++ source libraries is allowed

[Robert Burrell Donkin]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:



> Honestly, I see clear answers from legal-discuss for only a small
> fraction of the questions that are submitted.  I don't know if we're
> misusing that list or what.  But it does not appear to operate like a
> list where you submit a questions and get a definitive answer in a
> finite period of time,

It's is a sign that demand exceeds capacity :-/

The last time we were this busy, the contributions of a small number
of lawyers (at major tech companies) really made the difference. Looks
like they've drifted away. If anyone knows a lawyer who might be
interesting in contributing, then please ask them to join the list.

I recommend noting the slow response from legal-discuss as an
impediment in the next podling report (to let the board know).

> Do Mentors have have an idea on whether we're approaching these
> questions the right way?

(I'm not a mentor but please forgive give me for jumping in)

Apache is sometimes described as a do-ocracy. Submitting patches is
the path to karma.

> In particular, should be forcing the questions by proposing a
> categorization and seeking lazy consensus?  For example, "If there are
> no objections within 3 days to treating the Boost Licence as Category
> A compatible, then we assume lazy consensus and go forward with that
> treatment"

Dennis seems clueful :-)

If he were to start proposing patches to complement his analysis, that
would increase the probability that someone would apply them (by
reducing the time required to implement the policy clarification).

Robert

Re: Copyright Notices, Source Headers and Licenses (By Example)

[Robert Burrell Donkin]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Robert Burrell Donkin
>  wrote:



>> It is vital that only the owner (or their agent) alters a copyright
>> notice unless specific written permission been granted.
>>
>
> And since the SGA does not specifically say that, I'm understanding
> that the SGA alone is insufficient.

Whether or not the software grant is sufficient would take a court to decide...

But as a matter of Apache policy, asking for written permission is
both courteous and ethical as well as giving legal clarity.

> (Maybe in future we should add a check box for that to the SGA, or
> something like that?)

Revising standard legal documents takes a lot of energy. Not sure
there'd be traction to revise just for this but yes, I'd support
adding something next time the software grant is revision. Raise a
legal JIRA :-)

Process at Apache continuously evolves. Almost always, committers have
been available to act as agents. In this case, the community and the
copyright owner have no intersection. If anyone could find a few
cycles to submit a patch for the IP clearance process [1] reminding
that written permission is needed in addition to the grant, that'd be
great :-)



> So, for Apache committer authored files, SVN is the canonical record
> of the copyright owners contributions, and the Apache ID's used in SVN
> can be traced back to iCLAs, etc.

+1

When committing a patch submitted from another contributor, the CLAs
requires that the original contributor is credited. It is conventional
to include information about the source of the contribution as well.
For example, a JIRA number or a link to the mail-archives. The ALv2
includes the legal paperwork required to accept patches from
contributors[2] without further ado. Again this allows version control
to audit provenance.



> It sounds like we're asking for permission to remove the Oracle
> copyright statements from the individual source files and to put a
> statement in the NOTICE file like your [6].  This will probably
> require that Oracle confirm their preferred form for this, in
> particular the range of years.  We have statements in individual
> files, but it looks like we need a statement that applies to the
> entire codebase.

Roy is happy that Apache has the permission required[3]. So, I'm
happy. Unless someone jumps in sometime soon then IMHO we'll have
enough lazy consensus to progress...

>> A source header[5] is legal boilerplate included within a document,
>> and (as Apache understands it) excludes the copyright notice. For our
>> example, the source header is [7] which gives some general meta-data,
>> disclaims warranty and refers to a public license (LGPLv3) for the
>> file (and so is quite typical). The copyright owner (or anyone with a
>> appropriate license) may issue any number of licenses[8] for a
>> document. An appropriate source header allows a license to be bundled
>> with the document[9] but does not prevent the document being licensed
>> in other ways.
>>
>
> So the fact that Oracle gave us the source file under Apache 2.0 does
> not undo its availability under the previous LGPL license

Bit more involved than that.

Oracle has provided source offering a LGPLv3 license. Apache is
distributing (through subversion) this source but anyone who wants to
take advantage of that offer is taking a license from Oracle (not
Apache).

Oracle has also granted (non-exclusive) rights to Apache under a
software grant. These rights enable Apache (not Oracle) to offer an
ALv2.0 license for the source to the public (and continue to develop
derived versions). This is a subtle distinction but important for some
downstream consumers.

>> For someone with a suitable alternative license, modifying or removing
>> a source header should not required additional written permission. In
>> particular, source arriving at Apache under a CCLA, ICLA or software
>> grant should have a suitable alternative license. So that downstream
>> consumers are clear about the license issued by Apache (and to
>> simplify maintenance), policy asks that source arriving under CLAs and
>> grants is edited to replace the existing header with the standard
>> Apache source header [10].
>>
>
> ...however, in cases where the code is outright given to the project
> under ALv2 via mechanisms like an SGA, we replace other license
> headers with ALv2 headers.

Apache prefers copyright licenses to ownership. Code copyright is
almost never given outright.

Apache agrees with contributors (through CLAs, software grants and
ALv2 clause 5) that they license their contributions to Apache. Apache
then offers an open source license for the work to the public.

> And what about the part that says "DO NOT ALTER OR REMOVE COPYRIGHT
> NOTICES OR THIS FILE HEADER"?   If I understand correctly, we will
> request permission to move the copyright from Oracle.  And that we
> don't need additional permissions to remove the header, beyond the
> permissio

Foundation blog posting on Apache OOo

[Shane Curcuru]

The press@ team has a new blog entry/announce@ about general issues 
around the transition from the previous OpenOffice.org project to the 
new Apache OpenOffice.org podling.


http://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the_apache_software_foundation_statement

(Argh, my mail client may have wrapped the line.)  For a short link 
suitable for tweeting, etc., please use:


  http://s.apache.org/XCP

- Shane

Re: Hosting OpenGrok?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Rob,

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code
> searching, cross reference application called "OpenGrok"[2].  It is
> very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo...

I'm not on the infra team so cannot comment on hosting on our main
infrastructure, but one thing that you can do for sure is to get a
zone or jail for OOo [0] and have your PPMC install and run that
software themselves.

I'm not sure if and how often those are backed up, so you might need
to sort out that, and I also don't think they are considered critical,
so the service might not be available 24/7 - just wanted to make sure
you are aware of this possibility.

-Bertrand

[0] http://www.apache.org/dev/solaris-zones.html - I think those docs
are out of date, nowadays infra is creating jails AFAIK, you can get
one by creating an issue like
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-3481





> [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/
> [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome
> [3] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescription
> [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/
>

Re: OOo site favicon

[Marcus (OOo)]

+1 for your favicon.

Marcus



Am 10/14/2011 04:23 AM, schrieb Dave Fisher:


On Oct 13, 2011, at 7:13 PM, Shane Curcuru wrote:


On 10/13/2011 9:56 PM, NoOp wrote:
...

Why is the favicon for http://www.openoffice.org/ using a Kenai favicon
rather than an official OOo/AOOo favicon?


Because most content for the openoffice.org domain is still being hosted on 
Oracle-owned servers to which the Apache OOo PPMC has limited access to change 
content.  Oracle has legally agreed to transfer the domain names and a number 
of brand elements, but the actual technical details of transferring the domain 
name hosting are still being worked out.

Once the primary websites there are hosted on ASF servers, we will of course be 
using Apache branding for the favicon, along with a wide variety of other 
branding changes to reflect OOo's new Apache heritage.

- Shane

P.S. Hmmm, does anyone have plans for an AOOo favicon, or does the PPMC just 
want to use the feather to start with?


I have the OOo favicon that this guy refers to ready to go for 
www.openoffice.org.

http://people.apache.org/~wave/content/favicon.ico

If the Branding team once it assembles wants to do otherwise then no troubles, 
it's all in svn.

Regards,
Dave

Re: Copyright Notices, Source Headers and Licenses (By Example)

[Robert Burrell Donkin]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
> Thank you Robert you've been very clear, but ...
>
> --- On Thu, 10/13/11, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
> ...
>> Please jump in where I've been unclear)
>>
> ...
>
>>
>> It is vital that only the owner (or their agent) alters a
>> copyright notice unless specific written permission been
>> granted.
>>
>
> We have been respecting this part, perhaps to the extreme.
> Ideally Oracle should've had replaced the headers but to
> ease up thing we imported their development tree with the
> old copyrights.

Typically, the entity donating the code will have at least one
committer who can act as their agent in this. Otherwise, the Apache
legal team needs to be involved.

In this case, we have an okay from Oracle [1] to relocate the copyright notices

> There is an initial SGA, so I guess any
> committer can take the list of transferred files and
> commit a license change, right?

This is about the copyright notices (eg "Copyright 2000, 2010 Oracle
and/or its affiliates."), not copyright licenses. Changing copyright
notices is - from a legal perspective - an important action. Never
change copyright notices without checking with the legal team[2].

Apache's legal paperwork allows the Foundation to issue licenses for
most of the source released[3]. The original source headers simply
inform the user that Oracle grants an alternative license. When Apache
has our standard legal paperwork covering the source, these source
headers can be replaced by the standard Apache boilerplate without
worry.

> It's a lot of files so I wonder how other projects have
> managed this. I thought of creating a new branch and
> merging the changes back but that didn't receive support.
> Do tell us if there is a magical perl script to do these
> type of replacements :).

There are scripts but it's important to confirm that everything
changed is covered before altering headers

Robert

[1] 
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/201110.mbox/%3cf291de8d-c108-41f2-a094-f5141da9d...@gbiv.com%3E
[2] A major priority for Apache is to protect committers and the
Foundation from legal risk. This means following the rules.
[3] Exceptional source *must* have a header with the original license

Re: How about a new branch for the legal changes? (was Re: A systematic approach to IP review?)

[Robert Burrell Donkin]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Pedro Giffuni  wrote:
>
>
> --- On Thu, 10/13/11, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
>
>> I recommend separating review from (automated) execution.
>> If this is done, a branch shouldn't be necessary...
>>
>
> Uhm.. can you elaborate a bit more?

For projects of this scale, some level of automated help is typically needed.

> A branch would save us from having say... 1000 commits with
> header changes in the history.

Apache uses version control as the canonical record. It's therefore
essential to know why a header was changed and by whom.

Robert

Re:Hosting OpenGrok?

[Ross Gardler]

Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
On Oct 13, 2011 11:58 PM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:
>
> The legacy OpenOffice.org project had an instance [1] of a source code
> searching, cross reference application called "OpenGrok"[2].  It is
> very useful, especially in a 6 million LOC project like OOo.
>
> Have we ever used OpenGrok at Apache?  If not, is there an alternative
> that other projects are using?  Or are most other projects small
> enough that local IDE cross reference databases are sufficient?

I don't believe it has been used in the ASF but a definite answer to this
and your other questions would have to come from the infra@ team.

Ross

>
> The pre-req's for OpenGrok are on their website [3] and include
> GlassFish or Tomcat (6.x or later)  with Java at least 1.6, and
> Exuberant Ctags [4]
>
> Is this something that appears technical feasible, based on the server
> support have at Apache?  Easy, medium or hard?
>
> If this seems like a relatively easy thing to get hosted on Apache
> infrastructure, we can discuss further on the project to see if we can
> find a volunteer to drive it.  But I wanted to check first to see if
> this looked reasonable.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
>
> [1] http://svn.services.openoffice.org/opengrok/
> [2] http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/WebHome
> [3]
http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+opengrok/installdescription
> [4] http://ctags.sourceforge.net/