Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
On 6/4/06, houghi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ok, I will try another aproach: The openSUSE community is the group of people that are involved, directly or indirectly, in the openSUSE project. I think that it is classic that you have in the space of one post, changed your definition of what the openSUSE community means. I think we are basically fighting with the consequences of naming the project different to the distribution, and then sending mixed messages. People are confused. The market is confused. Novell even refers to openSUSE as a distro. It is therefore totally understandable why OT posts happen this list, as the definition of what is On-topic is obviously not clear. Education is of limited value, because for every time we say openSUSE is the community and SUSE Linux is the distro, teh user will read a review of "openSUSE" or a press release from Novell such how the new driver proces will be available in openSUSE. Instead of fighting against all this, as said in other thread, I think the community specific discussions should be in a new list called [EMAIL PROTECTED] This list can then be deleted. Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin ps. while we are at it, we could also create [EMAIL PROTECTED], and banish repeat offenders to it :-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
On Saturday 03 June 2006 21:42, houghi wrote: > On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 09:23:21PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: > > I truly do not. I see no need whatsoever to have an email forum > > about "the community." > > OK. so you do not think that the community as such needs anything > else? My god. What does "the community" need to discuss that's not what it's working on? Is this some kind of social club? Please give me some examples of non-technical, non-product issues that are pertinent topics of discussion in your conception of this list's charter. > > There is a technology project and the valid topics > > should be that technology and its development. But when people ask > > questions about the end product, they're sent elsewhere. To me, > > this seems perverse. > > There are a LOT of other issues that deal with the community that are > not directly related to the product. Why is it so difficult to have > just one place (suse-linux-e) that deals with technical issues? What > is the need to have this list answer technical issues as well? Could you suggest what some of these other issues are? > > Perhaps you just want an exclusive club. That's fine. Just restrict > > membership and only let in people who are willing to restrict > > themselves chatting about "the community." > > I do not want an exclusive club. I want a place where I can discuss > community issues without them being drowned in technical issues. > openSUSE is much more then just support for SUSE. If I have a desire > to talk technical, I go to suse-linux-e or other places where it is > apropriate. SuSE Linux is a technology project. If anything is off-topic, it's the non-technical. > So where should these discussions about the openSUSE itself that are > NOT directly related to SUSE Linux take place then? Perhaps you think > here as well. What are these things? What is openSUSE that is not also SuSE Linux? You steadfastly refuse to suggest to me what they might be. The only thing I can think of that would be off-topic here (besides non-technical issues, of course) is non-open-source software, which is strictly in the commercial Novell / SuSE Linux release. > Can I ask you, are you in general against different mailinglists, or > do you think that everything should be in just one mailinglist? If > you think it should be in one, then it will become so large nobody > will be able to do anything with it. I have yet to get any idea at all what people working on SuSE Linux want to talk about other than SuSE Linux. That is the only thing the people on this list have in common. What else should they discuss? Gardening? Poker? Bicycling? Child-rearing? So if you cannot tell me what this list is for other than to keep saying "community issues," then no. I don't think there needs to be two lists. > Most likely you agree that there should be some difference in > mailinglists. As you do not agree with the current lists, how do you > propose to solve it? No. I certainly do not. SuSE Linux is a technology project. There's nothing else to discuss and I think that's made pretty clear by the fact that people keep coming here with technical questions. Sadly, they're now just handed copy and after copy of some boilerplate telling them to go somewhere else. Unless and until you can get specific about what non-technical issues you think this list should be used for, then I see no need for this list at all. Repeating "community issues" over and over does not answer the question. > houghi RRS - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
Peter Flodin wrote: > On 6/4/06, jdd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> houghi wrote: >> > What else can we do then point out each time we see a technical >> discussion >> > starting? My idea is to kill this list, as it already is lost and >> make a >> > new one: opensuse-community. > >> I don't think changing the list could do any good, people >> will write anyway (or steal the others openSUSE lists). > > I disagree, I actually think this is one of Houghi's better ideas. Yes. > The problem with this list is that it is the default list, it is the > list everybody joins. Newbies think they just downloaded openSUSE so > it must be the right list to ask questions about it :-) > > The off-topic post are very low on the specific list like > opensuse-wiki and opensuse-factory. Agree. > So my vote is that if we want a list to only discuss community lets > create [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then delete > opensuse@opensuse.org > Why to delete? Let it do what newbies think it should do, answer the questions. There will be no harm if loads of messages on suselinux-e will be split. Here can come to some positive effect that opensuse will answer newbie kind of questions and suselinux-e left to deal with more complex answers, as it probably should. -- Regards, Rajko. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On 6/4/06, jdd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: houghi wrote: > What else can we do then point out each time we see a technical discussion > starting? My idea is to kill this list, as it already is lost and make a > new one: opensuse-community. I don't think changing the list could do any good, people will write anyway (or steal the others openSUSE lists). I disagree, I actually think this is one of Houghi's better ideas. The problem with this list is that it is the default list, it is the list everybody joins. Newbies think they just downloaded openSUSE so it must be the right list to ask questions about it :-) The off-topic post are very low on the specific list like opensuse-wiki and opensuse-factory. So my vote is that if we want a list to only discuss community lets create [EMAIL PROTECTED] and then delete opensuse@opensuse.org Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
houghi wrote: > Not wanting to highjack a thread, I start a new one. People having issues > with the wording of my standard reply, please tell me *here* what it > should be. As I believe this is (unfortunatly) on-topic here, I won't > reply to any personal mails concerning this subject. > > What else can we do then point out each time we see a technical discussion > starting? My idea is to kill this list, as it already is lost and make a > new one: opensuse-community. > > Anybody other (better) ideas? > > houghi How to kill the list? Not participating? Someone will post and someone will answer, so list will not die unless decision makers remove it. IMHO, in the beginning this list was intended for community related communication, but presence of technical questions shows that many people think that this is the right place. Why it works this way? By simple logic applied in other places, SUSE Linux will be discussed on suselinux mailing list, opensuse on opensuse mailing list. Everyone takes that openSUSE is some different kind of SUSE linux, like Fedora Core is different kind of Redhat. What I found on opensuse.org I have to talk about in opensuse (mailing list, forum, news), not suse mailing list. Tomato forum about tomatoes, potato about potatoes. We all use that naming schema everywhere we go, not only in the Internet, so I can't blame people that come here with all kind of questions. Although I support you in your efforts to keep things organized, something that is making perpetual confusion, as it contradicts to common sense, should be adjusted to what most expects to be. Leave this list to all opensuse questions, and make opensuse-chat for community related. I bet that no one will ever try to ask how to solve technical problem in chat forum, nor on chat list. The name "community" is still to much like a magnet for technical questions, because where I would go to ask if I have problem with Linux that I obtained on opensuse.org, of course to guys that know a lot about. Where I would look for those guys, in their community. The name "chat" is not restrictive and allows all kinds of non-technical discussions. If someone ask question that is not commonly understood under chat, like how to solve the problem, anyone can send "offender" to proper list in fast, dry, non-offending way like: "The better place to ask about problems with SUSE Linux downloaded from opensuse.org would be opensuse mailing list. How to subscribe to it is explained on http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate. Have a fun." No one will complain if people in chat forum/list don't feel ready to answer technical stuff, even if the name tells that the guy is expert. The distinction between openSUSE community (not SUSE community) and SUSE Linux (not openSUSE Linux) is unusual and makes confusion from day one. This list is loaded with threads that explain the difference, and despite all efforts people are still using reasoning that is more common in the net. BTW, good example how proper naming can help, there is no many that go to opensuse-wiki to ask for technicalities. -- Regards, Rajko. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 09:23:21PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: > I truly do not. I see no need whatsoever to have an email forum about > "the community." OK. so you do not think that the community as such needs anything else? > There is a technology project and the valid topics > should be that technology and its development. But when people ask > questions about the end product, they're sent elsewhere. To me, this > seems perverse. There are a LOT of other issues that deal with the community that are not directly related to the product. Why is it so difficult to have just one place (suse-linux-e) that deals with technical issues? What is the need to have this list answer technical issues as well? > Perhaps you just want an exclusive club. That's fine. Just restrict > membership and only let in people who are willing to restrict > themselves chatting about "the community." I do not want an exclusive club. I want a place where I can discuss community issues without them being drowned in technical issues. openSUSE is much more then just support for SUSE. If I have a desire to talk technical, I go to suse-linux-e or other places where it is apropriate. So where should these discussions about the openSUSE itself that are NOT directly related to SUSE Linux take place then? Perhaps you think here as well. Can I ask you, are you in general against different mailinglists, or do you think that everything should be in just one mailinglist? If you think it should be in one, then it will become so large nobody will be able to do anything with it. Most likely you agree that there should be some difference in mailinglists. As you do not agree with the current lists, how do you propose to solve it? houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
On Saturday 03 June 2006 20:23, houghi wrote: > ... > > Somehow I am sure that you understand what the intention is and that > you are just not happy with the definition, so how would YOU define > it? I truly do not. I see no need whatsoever to have an email forum about "the community." There is a technology project and the valid topics should be that technology and its development. But when people ask questions about the end product, they're sent elsewhere. To me, this seems perverse. Perhaps you just want an exclusive club. That's fine. Just restrict membership and only let in people who are willing to restrict themselves chatting about "the community." > houghi Randall Schulz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 07:51:59PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: > > To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are > > talking about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the > > use of SUSE. Devlopers and Users alike. > > Fine, but it doesn't answer the question about what's on-topic if > questions about technological issues with SuSE Linux are not. Saying > that it's supposed to be limited to issues of interest to or about "the > community" is still unanswered. To me it does answer just that question. Ok, I will try another aproach: The openSUSE community is the group of people that are involved, directly or indirectly, in the openSUSE project. No the question what is on-topic. Whjat is on-topic are discussions about the project and the community that maintains that project. There is a link to what the project exactly is and I asume you have read that. Somehow I am sure that you understand what the intention is and that you are just not happy with the definition, so how would YOU define it? houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
Hello, On Saturday 03 June 2006 17:42, houghi wrote: > On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 05:24:53PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 > > posted to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the > > community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means. > > To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are > talking about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the > use of SUSE. Devlopers and Users alike. Fine, but it doesn't answer the question about what's on-topic if questions about technological issues with SuSE Linux are not. Saying that it's supposed to be limited to issues of interest to or about "the community" is still unanswered. > http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists explains more what > the subjects are for each list. "General discussion about the openSUSE project and community only (name of the list "opensuse")." If discussion "about the openSUSE project" excludes issues with SuSE Linux, then what does that leave? > HTH... Not really. > houghi Randall Schulz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
houghi wrote: > On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 05:24:53PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted >> to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the >> community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means. >> > > To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are talking > about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the use of SUSE. > Devlopers and Users alike. > > http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists explains more what the > subjects are for each list. > > HTH, HAND. > > houghi > Hi all, i agree with Houghi's (short but clean) definition. I'd like to add that the perception i have of the Community is, all in all, working on the project. At several layers, like programming, like using, but also like translating, like seeding heavy duty, like reporting bugs, like learning from the ones who know more, like to share with the ones who know less, like just to watch how things grow and try to add even more, like creating a huge, nice link between people. A Community. Last but not least, i think just spreading the word is the step beyond. Make a larger Community. And BTW, thanks to all of you that made my openSUSE experience more rich :-) Kind Regards, PatrickM
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On Sunday 04 June 2006 02:38, houghi wrote: > On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 05:02:32AM +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote: > > Maybe we can cross post the users message for them? > > with a note like that is a lot shorter? Something like: > > I would like that. I think however it is not possible to do it like in > Newsgroup where you do a crosspost and then set the F-up to the list of > your prefrence so that answer would get to the other list and not the the > original list anymore. > > If there is a way to do that with Email, please let me know, because that > would be a great solution. I am afraid what would happen now is that you > will depend on other people to cut the crossposting. Not everybody would > know how to do that or understand why. > > Again, if possible, please let me know, because that would be a great way > to do it. > > houghi I'm not sure what you mean, but with crossposting in emails, I was thinking about sending the responce TO:suse-linux-e. and CC:opensuse(-community) I didn't really think about what would happen when a reply-to-list is done on that message Hmmm... anybody know what happens here? Jerry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Producing Open Source Software
On 2006-06-03 13:29:50 +0100, Thomas Hertweck wrote: > I am not sure whether this has been mentioned here before (could not > find anything in the archive) - if so, I apologise for this repetition. > http://lists.opensuse.org/archive/opensuse/2006-May/0804.html darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] opensuse 10.1 runs out of memory, then kernel panic
hi, On 2006-06-02 11:41:25 -0700, Kevin Lewandowski wrote: > Hello, I've installed opensuse 10.1 (amd64) on a new system and it hangs > after a few hours of being up. > > The hardware is dual Opteron with 4 gigs of ram. > > After booting the system there are no applications running but my available > memory (given by top) eventually goes from 4 gigs down to zero, giving this > message on the console: "Kernel panic - not syncing: Out of memory and no > killable processes...". > > I'm running kernel version 2.6.16.13-4-smp and have also tried > 2.6.16-20-smpwith the same results. Does anyone know what could be > causing this problem? i would appreciate some debugging: 1. "lsmod" output would be interesting 2. please run "while : ; do cat /proc/slabinfo >> /tmp/slabinfo ; sleep 10; done" while it runs out of memory. so we can see which part of the kernel allocates the memory. thanks in advance:) darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] What is "Community?"
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 05:24:53PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: > Hi, > > Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted > to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the > community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means. To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are talking about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the use of SUSE. Devlopers and Users alike. http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists explains more what the subjects are for each list. HTH, HAND. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 05:02:32AM +0200, Jerry Westrick wrote: > Maybe we can cross post the users message for them? > with a note like that is a lot shorter? Something like: I would like that. I think however it is not possible to do it like in Newsgroup where you do a crosspost and then set the F-up to the list of your prefrence so that answer would get to the other list and not the the original list anymore. If there is a way to do that with Email, please let me know, because that would be a great solution. I am afraid what would happen now is that you will depend on other people to cut the crossposting. Not everybody would know how to do that or understand why. Again, if possible, please let me know, because that would be a great way to do it. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On Saturday 03 June 2006 23:14, Renegade Penguin wrote: > Scott is right. Houghi, quit trying to defend yourself here. Just try > it his way for a while. > > That is MY experience - I side with Scott. > > RP > > houghi wrote: > >On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 04:48:07PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > >>It's a middle ground that I've seen work well both to keep lists on topic > >> and to make people feel welcome. > > > >Unfortunatly I have see it fail on lists. People just kept posting more > >and more, because their questions where answerd anyway. I asume it is only > >logic that IF people give an answer that they point out the correct place > >as well. > > > >The only reason I can think of why people keep posting, even when asked > >not to do, is because they are getting answers. If you tell me the pub is > >closed and you keep giving me beer, I won't leave. I only leave when I can > >get (or take) any more beer. ;-) > > > >Other people look and see that questions are answerd anyway, so these > >people also have no need to go elsewhere. That at least is my experience. > > > >houghi I agree, houghi's way is the only way that has worked. (IMHO the only one that will work here.). on the other hand: I agree people get the feeling they are being pushed off. I agree that the feeling is not nice, as I personally experienced it last week. Maybe we can cross post the users message for them? with a note like that is a lot shorter? Something like: In order to get help for you, we posted this message on the SUSE-E mailing list where the appropriate technical expertise is available to help you. Please look for the answers to this post at _suse-e_. (this is supposed to be a link of some sort.) ie. don't give the person the feeling he/she did something wrong. instead give the person we went out of our way to help them I also agree with houghi's suggestion that we close this list infavor of a list named something like opensuse-community. I think that will help many of the "wrong posters" not to get the wrong list in the first place. Jerry P.S. I really think that giving answers on this list will kill it... my vote is NO - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] What is "Community?"
Hi, Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means. What's OK to discuss here? How things are going with the spouse and kids? How well groomed the local parks are? Whether the potholes are getting dealt with? Whether the cops are stopping people from speeding in the school zone next door? Whether trash pickup is prompt? How long the lines are at city hall? Whether the public library is getting too run-down? Community is such a gawd-awful over-used word these days. Randall Schulz - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
On Sunday 04 June 2006 01:08, Pascal Bleser wrote: > Renegade Penguin wrote: > > "Renegade Penguin", again, please do not top-post, it's very annoying, > now *I* have to fix your email layout. > And using real names is much nicer BTW ;) (As annoying as the bottom post is to us?) Sorry couldn't resist, and refuse to get drawn into another top versus bottom posting discusion Renegade, the people in this list feal very strongly against top posting right or wrong, either way it's the standard for all SUSE lists, and has always been that way.Think you can compromise and give into this? > > > Martin Schlander wrote: > >> Either we help with technical problems on this list or we don't - I > >> say we don't - or do you think we should differentiate - and > >> help some but not others? > > +1, this list is not for technical issues. > I also agree, that if we started helping technical questions, it would confuse people more than really help. And the danger of this list getting swamped with technical questions is very very real > >> Accepting technical questions on this list would effectively kill > >> community building. Until now "spam" has been kept at a pretty low > >> level - but only because we have been quick to redirect people to the > >> correct mailinglist. > > Exactly. Allowing technical topics on this list will kill it (and it's > already damn near the red line). > > >> I say Houghi is doing an important and unpleasant task. If you have > >> suggestions on how to make the message more polite please post them. > > 100% ACK > > Houghi is doing a good job at redirecting them, thanks for moderating. > I add my thx to Houghi also It's an unpleasant job his doing but a necesary one. > > I actually did have a good idea, and posted it. The occasional helpful > > issue is pretty good. Houghi writing to them *privately* instead of in > > public, upsetting others, was the suggestion that I used. I did this in > > the public arena so that it can be an open discussion, and hopefully > > result in positive solutions. > > I don't think writing to them privately is the best option. > Could be discussed though. > If there is a discusion, then my 2¢ is not to private... It seams to me that would open other can of worms. My experience is that any private email is an open invitation to private help. I simply refuse to PM anybody asking for help. > > There is a line between helping on technical issues and moving them to > > other lists. The grey area exists in building community. I'm starting > > Read my li^H^H^H email body: /this list is not for technical questions/. > > > to perceive more of what appears to be a hostile attitude, not by one > > particular person but my more among the group. This is why I sounded > > off - to try to keep things positive as well as help others who may want > > to sound off on the debate. > > Now, I find that very offending. > > 1) I don't see anything "hostile" in houghi's reply and if you do, as > houghi asked you about 2 or 3 times, please come up with a better > proposal as for the content of his email - but the following aspects are > not up to discussion: this list is not for technical questions, and > there should be no replies to technical questions > > 2) our community has a hostile attitude ? > Explain this. Really. > I understand both sides of the story. But I also had to swallow twice when I was "asked" to go to the technical list. No I don't know of how to phase it better how about one of our European colleagues? as they are famous for their tact, and sauve? > > Depending on the level of the technical questions - see the "anything > > RIGHT with 10.1?" threads among others - sometimes general problems or > > even specific problem discussion can be helpful to the rest of the > > community. > > Yes, but on suse-linux-e, which is dedicated to technical issues, not here. > > > Also, I know tone is not conveyed in e-mail much so I'll give you an > > indication of my mood as well, which is constructive. > > My mood: offended by "what appears to be a hostile attitude, not by one > particular person but more among the group" > > cheers Jerry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
Hi, Sven Burmeister schrieb: > He is using the least risky way in order to be able to test new KDE versions > for the next SuSE release and hence helps fixing bugs and thus contributes to > the quality of a SuSE product, i.e. something those that do not test newer > versions of KDE profit from. I'm not sure that using these packages really helps finding and fixing bugs for the next release. The best and maybe even the only way to do that is using factory. 10.1 + build service is not what will become the next release - that is factory and nothing else. There might be artifacts because the way the base system and the KDE packages are combined is different from what will become the next release. There might be even wrong bug reports because of that, which might actually consume additional time and effort instead of helping. > Further he is using a bugfix-release, hardly any bugfixes are backported and > supplied via YOU, so this is the only choice apart from more risky (betas and > alphas) or more inconvenient methods (compiling). Of course bugfixes will be supplied via YOU. Actually there was already a qt3 + kdebase3 bugfix YOU. The packages in the build service are not bugfix releases. Don't mix up the upstream development with the packaging work: From the stand point of upstream development, KDE 3.5.3 is clearly a bugfix release, but packaging software is much more than downloading it and making it compile. There is integration work to do, and a version upgrade to something that is published as bugfix release from upstream does not necesserily have to behave like a bugfix package because upstream development and packaging are very different things. > If Novell would think this is too risky for users, it would not call > it "genuine added value" but "genuine added risk". Added value == added risk. There is no contradiction here. Sometimes I seriously dislike the way people expect these extra packages to work. Some users expect them to have the same or even higher quality than the originally distributed ones because the difference between the version-release number and the work that has to be done to make packages behave as expected is not clear. And claiming that using these packages helps improving the quality of the next release is a very problematic thing. This might be true in many cases, but there might be exceptions, caused by artifacts and possibly invalid bug reports as described above. Sometimes I just don't understand why these extra packages are so popular among consumers. The packagers are spending huge amounts of time for doing integration work and bugfixes only, everyone who read opensuse-commit in the last months is able to know that, and then consumers just throw everything away because there's something available that looks like a bugfix update because it has a higher version-release number. By the way, splitting KDE itself and the most popular KDE applications into separate repositories is a great step forward compared to the old supplementary FTP. It can prevent some common problems and misunderstandings - if people appreciate and follow the split instead of quickly adding both repositories to their $PACKAGEMANAGER configuration just because they can... Andreas Hanke - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 18:48, Pascal Bleser wrote: [...] > Well, Lee, I have to add that introducing a mail with something like > "fix it or I'm moving to slackware", that's probably supposed to be > some form of threatening, is definitely.. how am I going to say this > while staying polite... "bad practice". >=== Sorry Pascal, that's not what I said, don't change it to suit yours and Graham's arguments. I'll repost it so you'll be clear and others won't start jumping down my throat for something you made up to sound like it came from me. I quote me: "Trying to be patient, but Slackware is starting to look better each day! ;o)" With a smiley, no less! -- [...] > Your report is certainly interesting and will hopefully trigger a > fix, but what Graham was referring to is your tone (and I second > that). > > Especially your follow-up emails are quite inflammatory without it > bringing any added value, this one being a very nice example as well. >= My tone is that of a frustrated & disappointed long time SUSE user, nothing more, nothing less. Don't interpret it or imply your thoughts into what I was trying to convey, because I'm pretty sure you can't read my mine or you would have known. You're welcome to bring your thoughts into the discussion, but don't make yours mine please. > > 10.1. 10.1 is/was not right and someone had the boneheaded idea to > > put it out anyway. Bad decision on someone's part, but they'll > > eventually get things fixed, fortunately Linux is that way, it can > > be fixed. We might have to wait until 10.2 or 10.3 before we see > > it, but it will be fixed. > > Enjoy your broken Linux for now and if sucking up to Novell/SUSE > > gets things fixed any quicker for you, let us know. > > Wow, how nice. Actually you really confirmed Graham's reply ;) > > Please keep on reporting issues, contributing, etc... but please drop > that troll dress, that's not helping anyone, and certainly not > yourself. > > Thanks. > > cheers == No actually I confirmed or implied that Graham seems to be a suckup and that is the way he thinks things should be handled. I don't think any less of Novell/Suse or the guys doing the work, because I know they can't be happy with this whole situation either. They'll do all they can to correct those things needing fixing. Hopefully they'll be allowed to handle things in a timely & rewarding manner that will please them and us. If I didn't believe in them and their work still, I would already be gone instead of still searching out problems. thank you, Lee - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 01:08:32AM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote: > >> I say Houghi is doing an important and unpleasant task. If you have > >> suggestions on how to make the message more polite please post them. > > 100% ACK > > Houghi is doing a good job at redirecting them, thanks for moderating. Thank you and all those who support me, or at least support the goal most (if not all) here try to achieve. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
Renegade Penguin wrote: > Scott is right. Houghi, quit trying to defend yourself here. Just try > it his way for a while. > > That is MY experience - I side with Scott. You obviously haven't been on this list for a long time. Houghi's way is the only way that has worked here and I'm thankful he does this task. Feel free to answer all questions in private mail, but don't clutter up the list with them. Thanks. Regards, Carl-Daniel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Renegade Penguin wrote: "Renegade Penguin", again, please do not top-post, it's very annoying, now *I* have to fix your email layout. And using real names is much nicer BTW ;) > Martin Schlander wrote: >> Either we help with technical problems on this list or we don't - I >> say we don't - or do you think we should differentiate - and >> help some but not others? +1, this list is not for technical issues. >> Accepting technical questions on this list would effectively kill >> community building. Until now "spam" has been kept at a pretty low >> level - but only because we have been quick to redirect people to the >> correct mailinglist. Exactly. Allowing technical topics on this list will kill it (and it's already damn near the red line). >> I say Houghi is doing an important and unpleasant task. If you have >> suggestions on how to make the message more polite please post them. 100% ACK Houghi is doing a good job at redirecting them, thanks for moderating. > I actually did have a good idea, and posted it. The occasional helpful > issue is pretty good. Houghi writing to them *privately* instead of in > public, upsetting others, was the suggestion that I used. I did this in > the public arena so that it can be an open discussion, and hopefully > result in positive solutions. I don't think writing to them privately is the best option. Could be discussed though. > There is a line between helping on technical issues and moving them to > other lists. The grey area exists in building community. I'm starting Read my li^H^H^H email body: /this list is not for technical questions/. > to perceive more of what appears to be a hostile attitude, not by one > particular person but my more among the group. This is why I sounded > off - to try to keep things positive as well as help others who may want > to sound off on the debate. Now, I find that very offending. 1) I don't see anything "hostile" in houghi's reply and if you do, as houghi asked you about 2 or 3 times, please come up with a better proposal as for the content of his email - but the following aspects are not up to discussion: this list is not for technical questions, and there should be no replies to technical questions 2) our community has a hostile attitude ? Explain this. Really. > Depending on the level of the technical questions - see the "anything > RIGHT with 10.1?" threads among others - sometimes general problems or > even specific problem discussion can be helpful to the rest of the > community. Yes, but on suse-linux-e, which is dedicated to technical issues, not here. > Also, I know tone is not conveyed in e-mail much so I'll give you an > indication of my mood as well, which is constructive. My mood: offended by "what appears to be a hostile attitude, not by one particular person but more among the group" cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEghZwr3NMWliFcXcRAqNLAJ0RmwznYaxcECeTDcqyQSa+s+/YNACfQDih jBTYHNrN7pByNWym9KndgTw= =0zOv -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 BandiPat wrote: > On Saturday 03 June 2006 11:08, Graham Anderson wrote: >> On Saturday 03 June 2006 15:46, BandiPat wrote: >>> Thanks guys, Michael & Graham, >>> For telling me things I already knew! Except maybe for the >>> screensaver thing. I thought someone from SUSE on another list >>> said QT3 .119 fixed this, but guess not. >> If you knew that the supplementary repositories are provided as an >> extra then it makes your posting to the mailing list complaining >> about an issue with them doubly worse. In fact it seems downright >> rude and inconsiderate. >> >> Next time why not try this instead >> >> "Thanks for going out of your way to provide us with extra updates. I >> appreciate the extra time and effort you have gone to in providing us >> with these extra packages. >> >> By the way there seems to be an dependancy issue with package >> foobar-x.x.x.rpm, how would you suggest i resolve it? >> >> keep up the good work and thanks again!" +1 >> But then again I see you whining on the other lists too, perhaps as >> you say on those lists it *is* time you move to slackware, I'm sure >> they will be more tollereant of you whines on their lists, not. Well, Lee, I have to add that introducing an mail with something like "fix it or I'm moving to slackware", that's probably supposed to be some form of threatening, is definitely.. how am I going to say this while staying polite... "bad practice". > Nice bashing Graham! Jumping on me about what's wrong with SUSE 10.1 > will certainly go a long way in making them aware of the problems many > have experienced with it. If you prefer to have many things broken and > can live with them, by all means, more power to you! If you had read > my mail, you would have seen I wasn't "whining" as you lovingly put it, > as much as I was trying to make someone aware of further problems with Your report is certainly interesting and will hopefully trigger a fix, but what Graham was referring to is your tone (and I second that). Especially your follow-up emails are quite inflammatory without it bringing any added value, this one being a very nice example as well. > 10.1. 10.1 is/was not right and someone had the boneheaded idea to put > it out anyway. Bad decision on someone's part, but they'll eventually > get things fixed, fortunately Linux is that way, it can be fixed. We > might have to wait until 10.2 or 10.3 before we see it, but it will be > fixed. > Enjoy your broken Linux for now and if sucking up to Novell/SUSE gets > things fixed any quicker for you, let us know. Wow, how nice. Actually you really confirmed Graham's reply ;) Please keep on reporting issues, contributing, etc... but please drop that troll dress, that's not helping anyone, and certainly not yourself. Thanks. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEghGgr3NMWliFcXcRAgHOAJ0bcd5L9Q+FoJfIcwAcA8J6YpkZLgCgpmLN IEv3NY2nv7aJDP5xUxRrsBw= =qxTc -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
Moin! Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 18:38 schrieb Stephan Binner: > The above problem doesn't exist in Factory btw. You're using unsupported > experimental stuff which is known to have problems (like above or splash > still containing a "3.5.1" graphic or not everything getting translated). He is using the least risky way in order to be able to test new KDE versions for the next SuSE release and hence helps fixing bugs and thus contributes to the quality of a SuSE product, i.e. something those that do not test newer versions of KDE profit from. Further he is using a bugfix-release, hardly any bugfixes are backported and supplied via YOU, so this is the only choice apart from more risky (betas and alphas) or more inconvenient methods (compiling). Further he is using "genuine added value, at no cost", see http://www.novell.com/linux/download/linuks/ If Novell would think this is too risky for users, it would not call it "genuine added value" but "genuine added risk". Sven - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard Bos wrote: > Op zaterdag 3 juni 2006 15:45, schreef Pascal Bleser: >>> The idea behind this is to be able to add a channel using the command: >>> smart --install channel- >> It's even easier to provide .channel files somewhere (like the .repo >> files in the Build Service), and just do >> >> smart channel --add http:///guru.channel >> smart channel --add http:///packman.channel > > Not sure whether this is easier from a user perspective. In your case the > user needs to remember the url pointing to the channel repository. In my > proposal it is not needed to remember this. One could for example use > smart's functionality to find the channel rpm. Once the correct rpm > (providing the desired channel), just execute 'smart install channel-'. > > Or the more lazy type of user could execute 'smart install '**.' and > have the channel installed that way. The only requirement is to have all > channel rpms in a common place. Just like the rpmkey rpms that I maintain at > the moment. That's correct, good point. I'd rather name them smart-channel-* though ;) > Your proposal just a *.channel repository is easier from a packager > perspective, as there is not rpm needed. > The advantage of having the channel files in an rpm, is that those gets > updated automatically when the corresponding channel file gets updated. This > is the same for the rpmkey rpms. Yep, you're right. > The best place to host those channel rpms are of course suse itself as they > get than mirrored automatically. But as you already stated that might not be > possible due to law implications. s/might/will/ I started a thread/discussion with the SUSE folks about that when openSUSE started. I was asking them whether it would be possible to do some refinements in YaST2, to have it fetch a list of repositories from, say, opensuse.org and propose them to the end-user as additional repos. It became pretty clear that it wouldn't be possible, because of ridiculous court rulings in the US and Germany (e.g. the Heise case), where "linking" to a resource that provides a package that under certain circumstances and/or jurisdictions would be.. well.. "attackable" in court, is already sufficient for potential trouble. The issue was a task to.. mm.. I think it was Adrian, to take it to Novell's legal dept, but there was never any feedback on it (and it was in November 2005). Dunno if anything came back about that.. Adrian ? > I think that the buildserver could build/create a channel rpm for each > project > and have those stored in a central place. This would be a good start. It won't be in a central place, unfortunately. It could be done for repositories that don't contain stuff like mad or lame (which discards my repository and Packman, at the very least), like latest mozilla.org packages, latest wine packages by Marcus, latest OpenOffice.org packages, etc... But the other ones must be hosted elsewhere. Note that this structure would make it possible to host the/my smart RPMs in the openSUSE Build Service. I was very reluctant to the idea, and I'm still pretty sure it is going to make things more difficult for end-users but well... dunno... I'll think about it ;) The point is that to install e.g. smart-channel-packman, you'll have to add the Packman repository in the first place, because it won't be hosted in the Build Service... chicken vs egg. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEgg6Nr3NMWliFcXcRAoIOAJ4yZ9WwZeETZ7PI3fHXxeIyf6NwawCdHHXE eGOJ5MWTdQloP47EMOYOpiQ= =n6iJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Build servide updates too fast (Was: KDE supplementary moved to Build Service)
I also noticed, that sometimed during update process a new version of a package appears, (usually -- change in last version digit) and i have to constantly click "continue" on every error message during a long and slow update, and after that start all over, and have a nive time resolving broken dependancies, etc.. That once resulted in broken something -- i didnt see left columnt icons in Yast Package Manager (now fixed after last update). anyway -- there should be added an option to ignore missing packages -- a usual KDE update lasts for me for about a night, and first such error as "missing package kdebase-3.3.5-6.14" because there is already "kdebase-3.3.5-6.15" out there spoils the whole thing, and the update process stops waiting for my response (using Yast pm). I dont remember i had such problems before, when i was using supplementary + apt В сообщении от 31 мая 2006 03:38 Pascal Bleser написал(a): > In case you didn't notice (yet) and while an announcement of the > maintainer(s) would have been nice ;)... > > The KDE supplementary repository is now empty and has been moved to the > Build Service: > http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/ftp.suse.com/suse/i386/supplementary/KDE/ >README > > Note, if you're using smart: > - on 10.0: > smart channel --add \ > http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/SUSE_Linux_10. >0/KDE:KDE3.repo > > - on 10.1: > smart channel --add \ > http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/KDE:/KDE3/SUSE_Linux_10. >1/KDE:KDE3.repo > > There's also a backports repository, where popular KDE applications are > built against the stock KDE version as shipped with 10.0 or 10.1, > respectively. > > That's a very nice move, but I'd like to make a couple of remarks > nevertheless: > - is there already feedback from FTP admins for mirrors ? > A lot of people are using that repository to use the latest KDE, and > there was a very decent mirror infrastructure available (e.g. skynet, > belnet, several mirrors in Germany, ...), but we're starting at 0 at the > moment :\ > - please announce such stuff beforehand > I know Adrian has written 2 or 3 times that he wants to move suppl. KDE > to the BS, but what you guys think is trivial and not important is > actually being used by a vast number of SUSE Linux users out there. > Some announcement, e.g. a week beforehand + published on the > opensuse.org frontpage and feed, would have been desirable, to say the > least ;) > > cheers - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 02:14:55PM -0700, Renegade Penguin wrote: houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 12:38, Stephan Binner wrote: > On Saturday 03 June 2006 16:27, BandiPat wrote: > > seems to have missed. Updating to the KDE3 3.5.3 files will even > > give you errors about digikam & kdelibs3. Installing the digikam > > in the > > > > but one would hope a few things get fixed along the way, not more > > problems introduced. > > The above problem doesn't exist in Factory btw. You're using > unsupported experimental stuff which is known to have problems (like > above or splash still containing a "3.5.1" graphic or not everything > getting translated). > > Bye, >Steve > > - Thanks Steve, I'm very aware these problems don't exist in the original files, well, I take that back, they do, because someone messed up the build numbers! If anyone wants to experiment with the new stuff, which I assume SUSE would like for some of us to do in order to help run down problems, then isn't it safe to say we should be able to update without forcing or removing the old files first or having our chosen updater try to replace them later with old files? regards, Lee - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 13:01, houghi wrote: > On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 10:27:08AM -0400, BandiPat wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just finished doing the updates for KDE3 and associated files, but > > noticed a little problem. > > > Do not take this as a flame. It is intend to get you the best support > for now and in the future. > > openSUSE is the comunity and SUSE is the distribution. This means > that this openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. The > mailinglist for technical help is on *suse-linux-e* > Just subscribe via this email address: > [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again > there, and you will get a straight answer. > > From http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#SUSE_Linux_Mailing_Lists : > # opensuse for general discussion about the openSUSE (development) > project. # For general questions related to released SUSE Linux > versions # (eg. 9.3, 10.0) please use suse-linux-e > > Please take a look at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate to see wich > list is exactly for what purpose. > > Again, this is not a flame. This is intended to bring you to the > correct place so you will get better help _and_ to keep this list > free from unwanted treads. > > Thanks and I hope you will soon find a solution. = Thanks houghi, for your form email. Like form letters, it seldom seems appropriate considering the many unnecessary threads that appear here. This concerns opensuse as well as SUSE, so attention needs to be brought to these problems in both forums. The community that uses these updates is no less concerned with the problems than the regular users, so sending this was out of place more than me trying to bring attention to it. I don't take it as a flame and am not intending a flame back. regards, Lee - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 11:08, Graham Anderson wrote: > On Saturday 03 June 2006 15:46, BandiPat wrote: > > Thanks guys, Michael & Graham, > > For telling me things I already knew! Except maybe for the > > screensaver thing. I thought someone from SUSE on another list > > said QT3 .119 fixed this, but guess not. > > If you knew that the supplementary repositories are provided as an > extra then it makes your posting to the mailing list complaining > about an issue with them doubly worse. In fact it seems downright > rude and inconsiderate. > > Next time why not try this instead > > "Thanks for going out of your way to provide us with extra updates. I > appreciate the extra time and effort you have gone to in providing us > with these extra packages. > > By the way there seems to be an dependancy issue with package > foobar-x.x.x.rpm, how would you suggest i resolve it? > > keep up the good work and thanks again!" > > But then again I see you whining on the other lists too, perhaps as > you say on those lists it *is* time you move to slackware, I'm sure > they will be more tollereant of you whines on their lists, not. > > Graham > > - Nice bashing Graham! Jumping on me about what's wrong with SUSE 10.1 will certainly go a long way in making them aware of the problems many have experienced with it. If you prefer to have many things broken and can live with them, by all means, more power to you! If you had read my mail, you would have seen I wasn't "whining" as you lovingly put it, as much as I was trying to make someone aware of further problems with 10.1. 10.1 is/was not right and someone had the boneheaded idea to put it out anyway. Bad decision on someone's part, but they'll eventually get things fixed, fortunately Linux is that way, it can be fixed. We might have to wait until 10.2 or 10.3 before we see it, but it will be fixed. Enjoy your broken Linux for now and if sucking up to Novell/SUSE gets things fixed any quicker for you, let us know. regards, Lee - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
Scott is right. Houghi, quit trying to defend yourself here. Just try it his way for a while. That is MY experience - I side with Scott. RP houghi wrote: On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 04:48:07PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: It's a middle ground that I've seen work well both to keep lists on topic and to make people feel welcome. Unfortunatly I have see it fail on lists. People just kept posting more and more, because their questions where answerd anyway. I asume it is only logic that IF people give an answer that they point out the correct place as well. The only reason I can think of why people keep posting, even when asked not to do, is because they are getting answers. If you tell me the pub is closed and you keep giving me beer, I won't leave. I only leave when I can get (or take) any more beer. ;-) Other people look and see that questions are answerd anyway, so these people also have no need to go elsewhere. That at least is my experience. houghi
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 04:48:07PM -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: > It's a middle ground that I've seen work well both to keep lists on topic and > to make people feel welcome. Unfortunatly I have see it fail on lists. People just kept posting more and more, because their questions where answerd anyway. I asume it is only logic that IF people give an answer that they point out the correct place as well. The only reason I can think of why people keep posting, even when asked not to do, is because they are getting answers. If you tell me the pub is closed and you keep giving me beer, I won't leave. I only leave when I can get (or take) any more beer. ;-) Other people look and see that questions are answerd anyway, so these people also have no need to go elsewhere. That at least is my experience. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
When I've been in similar situation on other lists, I've tried an approach along the lines of: I think the answer to your question may be X, but the appropriate list for that kind of discussion is ___. You'll have more luck if you follow up there. That points the person in the right direction, but is less abrupt and makes them feel like they are getting some help and not just a push off to somewhere else. It's a middle ground that I've seen work well both to keep lists on topic and to make people feel welcome. Scott K - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 10:27:50PM +0200, jdd wrote: > I think you make a good job making these advices. May be > just you should not apologise :-() and just say "please go > to suse-linux-e for technical questions" with a link to the > openSUSE wiki page. > > I know you don't want to offend people, but doing so you > seem weak when you are right :-) I re-read it several times just now and I do not see any appology. Partly because I do not feel that I have anything to appologize about. :-/ What you could also mean by point 3 is that the postings are so seldom that replies to point people in the right direction will also be very seldom. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
houghi wrote: And I agree with 3 - someone having a full signature AND posting EVERY time they see an infraction is getting very old. So you say just to give up and let technical postings be allowed. The best way not to see me post these things is not to have these infractions. actually it's not what I intended by 3). I think you make a good job making these advices. May be just you should not apologise :-() and just say "please go to suse-linux-e for technical questions" with a link to the openSUSE wiki page. I know you don't want to offend people, but doing so you seem weak when you are right :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 12:53:05PM -0700, Renegade Penguin wrote: Please do not toppost. > I think this is a better solution that JDD has proposed. > > Houghi gets all upset when valid constructive criticism is made, > insisting he is right, makes demands that all correspondence be directly > on this list, etc. I do not demand anything. I just stat my opinion and say that I won't dicuss it in private mail. > Who at Novell would be contacted about this? The people reading here. > And I agree with 3 - someone having a full signature AND posting EVERY > time they see an infraction is getting very old. So you say just to give up and let technical postings be allowed. The best way not to see me post these things is not to have these infractions. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
I think this is a better solution that JDD has proposed. Houghi gets all upset when valid constructive criticism is made, insisting he is right, makes demands that all correspondence be directly on this list, etc. This list is getting too large for fairly effective self-policing (as well as others). JDD seems to have some good qualifications for being a moderator. Who at Novell would be contacted about this? And I agree with 3 - someone having a full signature AND posting EVERY time they see an infraction is getting very old. RP jdd wrote: I don't think changing the list could do any good, people will write anyway (or steal the others openSUSE lists). solutions: (?) 1) On this respect, a news group is much more adequate. on a news group, it's easy for a moderator to cancel early offending messages before it go to most user, it's also easy to anybody to correct an error on a mailing list, any OT thread can go on any long time. on a news group, it's easy to kill it. I'm ready to be part of any moderator group. 2) May be also if the long awaited forum went up, it could receive most of this unwanted traffic. I don't know if it's easy to moderate such a forum (I own one but has never to cancel anything) Please, don't start a new flame on the news/forum subject. I want only to mention them to see if this could a solution to the very problem mentionned here. 3) anyway, there are not so many oddening posts, may be we can live with them :-) 4) we could make the subscription to the mailing list moderated. A mail from the moderator to the new member about the non technical subject could have an effect and it could be possible to ban any offending people. jdd - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
houghi wrote: On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:25:37PM +0200, houghi wrote: 2) If you do, also include a pointer to the correct list. I have changed my signature. it's hopeless. I beg people write from the archives, not from the wiki and do not read really anithing before posting :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] mailing list issues
houghi wrote: Not wanting to highjack a thread, I start a new one. People having issues with the wording of my standard reply, please tell me *here* what it should be. As I believe this is (unfortunatly) on-topic here, I won't reply to any personal mails concerning this subject. What else can we do then point out each time we see a technical discussion starting? My idea is to kill this list, as it already is lost and make a new one: opensuse-community. Anybody other (better) ideas? houghi I don't think changing the list could do any good, people will write anyway (or steal the others openSUSE lists). solutions: (?) 1) On this respect, a news group is much more adequate. on a news group, it's easy for a moderator to cancel early offending messages before it go to most user, it's also easy to anybody to correct an error on a mailing list, any OT thread can go on any long time. on a news group, it's easy to kill it. I'm ready to be part of any moderator group. 2) May be also if the long awaited forum went up, it could receive most of this unwanted traffic. I don't know if it's easy to moderate such a forum (I own one but has never to cancel anything) Please, don't start a new flame on the news/forum subject. I want only to mention them to see if this could a solution to the very problem mentionned here. 3) anyway, there are not so many oddening posts, may be we can live with them :-) 4) we could make the subscription to the mailing list moderated. A mail from the moderator to the new member about the non technical subject could have an effect and it could be possible to ban any offending people. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] mailing list issues
Not wanting to highjack a thread, I start a new one. People having issues with the wording of my standard reply, please tell me *here* what it should be. As I believe this is (unfortunatly) on-topic here, I won't reply to any personal mails concerning this subject. What else can we do then point out each time we see a technical discussion starting? My idea is to kill this list, as it already is lost and make a new one: opensuse-community. Anybody other (better) ideas? houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray
Op zaterdag 3 juni 2006 15:45, schreef Pascal Bleser: > > The idea behind this is to be able to add a channel using the command: > > smart --install channel- > > It's even easier to provide .channel files somewhere (like the .repo > files in the Build Service), and just do > > smart channel --add http:///guru.channel > smart channel --add http:///packman.channel Not sure whether this is easier from a user perspective. In your case the user needs to remember the url pointing to the channel repository. In my proposal it is not needed to remember this. One could for example use smart's functionality to find the channel rpm. Once the correct rpm (providing the desired channel), just execute 'smart install channel-'. Or the more lazy type of user could execute 'smart install '**.' and have the channel installed that way. The only requirement is to have all channel rpms in a common place. Just like the rpmkey rpms that I maintain at the moment. Your proposal just a *.channel repository is easier from a packager perspective, as there is not rpm needed. The advantage of having the channel files in an rpm, is that those gets updated automatically when the corresponding channel file gets updated. This is the same for the rpmkey rpms. The best place to host those channel rpms are of course suse itself as they get than mirrored automatically. But as you already stated that might not be possible due to law implications. I think that the buildserver could build/create a channel rpm for each project and have those stored in a central place. This would be a good start. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:25:37PM +0200, houghi wrote: > 2) If you do, also include a pointer to the correct list. I have changed my signature. Is the mail that you get when you subscribe also saying something similar? If not, it might be included there, so we can point people to that mail. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome.If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 11:21:45AM -0700, Renegade Penguin wrote: > I actually did have a good idea, and posted it. The occasional helpful > issue is pretty good. Houghi writing to them *privately* instead of in > public, upsetting others, was the suggestion that I used. I did this in > the public arena so that it can be an open discussion, and hopefully > result in positive solutions. Please do not toppost. Writing to people privatly will not result in the much needed effect. Now some people will see where to go and NOT post an answer or directly go to suse-linux-e. > There is a line between helping on technical issues and moving them to > other lists. The grey area exists in building community. I'm starting > to perceive more of what appears to be a hostile attitude, not by one > particular person but my more among the group. This is why I sounded > off - to try to keep things positive as well as help others who may want > to sound off on the debate. Considering technical questions, there realy is no grey area. Technical questions go to suse-linux-e. Community questions to openSUSE. If you have a questions that contains both, see if it has anything technical in it. If it has, it should go to suse-linux-e > Depending on the level of the technical questions - see the "anything > RIGHT with 10.1?" threads among others - sometimes general problems or > even specific problem discussion can be helpful to the rest of the > community. They sure can. If you stat with a negative question as a subject, I don't think that is very helpfull to anybody. As if asking when somebody stopped beating their wife. > Also, I know tone is not conveyed in e-mail much so I'll give you an > indication of my mood as well, which is constructive. I know. So if the tone of my standard reply is too harsh, please tell me how to soften it, without loosing its meaning. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 08:01:39PM +0200, Martin Schlander wrote: > Either we help with technical problems on this list or we don't - I say we > don't - or do you think we should differentiate - and help some but not > others? > > Accepting technical questions on this list would effectively kill community > building. Until now "spam" has been kept at a pretty low level - but only > because we have been quick to redirect people to the correct mailinglist. My idea is to just kill off this list and make a new opensuse-community Untill then or another solution arises, I will keep posting to go to the correct place. For those who DO answer technical questions on this list. 1) You help poluting the list and therefore killing of this list for its intended purpose. This goes for all, including me. I try to resist answering any technical questions here. 2) If you do, also include a pointer to the correct list. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
I actually did have a good idea, and posted it. The occasional helpful issue is pretty good. Houghi writing to them *privately* instead of in public, upsetting others, was the suggestion that I used. I did this in the public arena so that it can be an open discussion, and hopefully result in positive solutions. There is a line between helping on technical issues and moving them to other lists. The grey area exists in building community. I'm starting to perceive more of what appears to be a hostile attitude, not by one particular person but my more among the group. This is why I sounded off - to try to keep things positive as well as help others who may want to sound off on the debate. Depending on the level of the technical questions - see the "anything RIGHT with 10.1?" threads among others - sometimes general problems or even specific problem discussion can be helpful to the rest of the community. Also, I know tone is not conveyed in e-mail much so I'll give you an indication of my mood as well, which is constructive. =) RP Martin Schlander wrote: Either we help with technical problems on this list or we don't - I say we don't - or do you think we should differentiate - and help some but not others? Accepting technical questions on this list would effectively kill community building. Until now "spam" has been kept at a pretty low level - but only because we have been quick to redirect people to the correct mailinglist. I say Houghi is doing an important and unpleasant task. If you have suggestions on how to make the message more polite please post them. Martin / cb400f - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 10:56:48AM -0700, Alain Black wrote:
> > From: William Biggs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > I get this error evertime I boot up. How can I get this to do it buy
> > it self ?
> > /usr/sbin/rcpowersaved start
>
>
> # chkconfig powersaved --add
> # chkconfig powersaved on --level 3,5
>
> to verify:
> # chkconfig --list powersaved
to turn it on:
# chkconfig powersaved on
to verify:
# chkconfig powersaved
"--add" and "--list" are just redhat compatibility options.
Cheers,
Michael.
--
Michael Schroeder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);}
-
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Re: [opensuse] error
Lørdag 03 juni 2006 19:48 skrev Renegade Penguin: > Please stop posting like this. The postings referring elsewhare are > becoming trolling, unfortunately, due to their excessive nature. > > Isn't building community helping others? Excessive policing of others > can really be a turn-off. We need to keep this list free of "spam" - how are we supposed to have community discussions if the list also has 4000+ mails a month of technical questions, as suse-linux-e has - in addition to the traffic that we already have. Either we help with technical problems on this list or we don't - I say we don't - or do you think we should differentiate - and help some but not others? Accepting technical questions on this list would effectively kill community building. Until now "spam" has been kept at a pretty low level - but only because we have been quick to redirect people to the correct mailinglist. I say Houghi is doing an important and unpleasant task. If you have suggestions on how to make the message more polite please post them. Martin / cb400f - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
Renegade Penguin wrote: Isn't building community helping others? Excessive policing of others can really be a turn-off. The openSUSE wiki is clear enough http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists questions off chart asked here won't probably receive answers, so redirecting to an other list is the best thing we can do (thanks Houghi to do so, I know it's not a pleasant task) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [opensuse] error
> -Original Message- > From: William Biggs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:15 AM > To: opensuse@opensuse.org > Subject: [opensuse] error > > I get this error evertime I boot up. How can I get this to do it buy > it self ? > /usr/sbin/rcpowersaved start # chkconfig powersaved --add # chkconfig powersaved on --level 3,5 to verify: # chkconfig --list powersaved - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
Please stop posting like this. The postings referring elsewhare are becoming trolling, unfortunately, due to their excessive nature. Isn't building community helping others? Excessive policing of others can really be a turn-off. Orienting to the community should be a positive experience. Because someone asks a question in a different list than is intended, should we not help at all? Hardly. Here is an analogy. If you are in a department store, and you have a question, you ask the nearest worker. They could be a cashier, someone in jewelry, men's clothing, sporting goods, etc. If they are excessively busy, they will try to point you in the general direction of your question. However, more often than not, if they have good skills, they will often help. with the added caveat of *also* directing the customer to the correct place *for the future.* While I do believe houghi is trying to be helpful, it appears to me that it's starting to go a bit too far. Without helpful nature, the "RTFM syndrome" takes over and becomes a place for elitists. Responding *privately* to someone's thread in this manner (below) might be more appropriate rather than chastising people in public every single time. I write this in public to help further discussion of this. People do not use SUSE in order to be constantly chastized. They come to enjoy themselves and utilize the mailing lists as a way to learn more, utilize them as tools, and try to better their computing experience. Didactic and preachy posts that come one or two a day in an identical fashion such as the one below can often drive others out rather than help bring people into the fold. This is just my 2¢, but I count 15 of these specific identical messages recently. RP P.S. Yes, I prefer top-posting, as I read top to bottom in English, regardless of the locale.\ houghi wrote: Do not take this as a flame. It is intend to get you the best support for now and in the future. openSUSE is the comunity and SUSE is the distribution. This means that this openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. The mailinglist for technical help is on *suse-linux-e* Just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. From http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#SUSE_Linux_Mailing_Lists : # opensuse for general discussion about the openSUSE (development) project. # For general questions related to released SUSE Linux versions # (eg. 9.3, 10.0) please use suse-linux-e Please take a look at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate to see wich list is exactly for what purpose. Again, this is not a flame. This is intended to bring you to the correct place so you will get better help _and_ to keep this list free from unwanted treads. Thanks and I hope you will soon find a solution. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] error
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 01:14:36PM -0400, William Biggs wrote: > I get this error evertime I boot up. How can I get this to do it buy > it self ? > /usr/sbin/rcpowersaved start Do not take this as a flame. It is intend to get you the best support for now and in the future. openSUSE is the comunity and SUSE is the distribution. This means that this openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. The mailinglist for technical help is on *suse-linux-e* Just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. >From http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#SUSE_Linux_Mailing_Lists : # opensuse for general discussion about the openSUSE (development) project. # For general questions related to released SUSE Linux versions # (eg. 9.3, 10.0) please use suse-linux-e Please take a look at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate to see wich list is exactly for what purpose. Again, this is not a flame. This is intended to bring you to the correct place so you will get better help _and_ to keep this list free from unwanted treads. Thanks and I hope you will soon find a solution. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] error
I get this error evertime I boot up. How can I get this to do it buy it self ? /usr/sbin/rcpowersaved start - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 10:27:08AM -0400, BandiPat wrote: > Hi all, > Just finished doing the updates for KDE3 and associated files, but > noticed a little problem. Do not take this as a flame. It is intend to get you the best support for now and in the future. openSUSE is the comunity and SUSE is the distribution. This means that this openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. The mailinglist for technical help is on *suse-linux-e* Just subscribe via this email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED], post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. >From http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#SUSE_Linux_Mailing_Lists : # opensuse for general discussion about the openSUSE (development) project. # For general questions related to released SUSE Linux versions # (eg. 9.3, 10.0) please use suse-linux-e Please take a look at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate to see wich list is exactly for what purpose. Again, this is not a flame. This is intended to bring you to the correct place so you will get better help _and_ to keep this list free from unwanted treads. Thanks and I hope you will soon find a solution. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Producing Open Source Software
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 01:29:50PM +0100, Thomas Hertweck wrote: > > I am not sure whether this has been mentioned here before (could not > find anything in the archive) - if so, I apologise for this repetition. > > There is a free book about OSS development: > >Producing Open Source Software >How to Run a Successful Free Software Project >by Karl Fogel > >http://www.producingoss.com/ > > It would be a great if everybody seriously involved in the openSUSE > project could find some time to have a look at it. I think it's > absolutely worth a look and really instructive. Maybe not the chapters > related to the technical aspects but the chapters concerned with the > social aspects of a project (e.g. "Managing Volunteers"). Indeed a great read. Thanks. Read this, people. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 01:20:02PM +0100, Thomas Hertweck wrote: > This means, for instance, it's important to convince those people at > Novell/SUSE in charge of the release that major changes in a late beta > stage are not acceptable from a user's perspective. In our company, > nobody would come up with an idea to make major changes in such a late > stage of the development process - this was like calling for problems > and trouble... I am sure that they are aware of that at Novell as well at this moment. Perhaps somebody from inside could explain this a bit more what the reaction of management is. Not verbatim, but just a general idea. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] About repositories and package managers
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 01:34:29PM +0200, jdd wrote: > I will certainly manage to make a wiki page with this (from > the newbie point of view, and I will post the URL for you to > fix errors :-) Instead of making a new one, adapt the existing ones: http://en.opensuse.org/Installation_Sources http://en.opensuse.org/Package_Management and perhaps see that they also have "Additional info and links" so that they point to each other. There might be more info already available. -- houghi http://houghi.org http://www.plainfaqs.org/linux/ http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today I went outside. My pupils have never been tinier... - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 16:27, BandiPat wrote: > seems to have missed. Updating to the KDE3 3.5.3 files will even give > you errors about digikam & kdelibs3. Installing the digikam in the > but one would hope a few things get fixed along the way, not more > problems introduced. The above problem doesn't exist in Factory btw. You're using unsupported experimental stuff which is known to have problems (like above or splash still containing a "3.5.1" graphic or not everything getting translated). Bye, Steve - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 15:46, BandiPat wrote: > Thanks guys, Michael & Graham, > For telling me things I already knew! Except maybe for the screensaver > thing. I thought someone from SUSE on another list said QT3 .119 fixed > this, but guess not. If you knew that the supplementary repositories are provided as an extra then it makes your posting to the mailing list complaining about an issue with them doubly worse. In fact it seems downright rude and inconsiderate. Next time why not try this instead "Thanks for going out of your way to provide us with extra updates. I appreciate the extra time and effort you have gone to in providing us with these extra packages. By the way there seems to be an dependancy issue with package foobar-x.x.x.rpm, how would you suggest i resolve it? keep up the good work and thanks again!" But then again I see you whining on the other lists too, perhaps as you say on those lists it *is* time you move to slackware, I'm sure they will be more tollereant of you whines on their lists, not. Graham - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 16:46 schrieb BandiPat: > On Saturday 03 June 2006 10:32, Michael Schueller wrote: > > Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 16:27 schrieb BandiPat: [...] > Thanks guys, Michael & Graham, > For telling me things I already knew! Except maybe for the > screensaver thing. I thought someone from SUSE on another list > said QT3 .119 fixed this, but guess not. No, this version fixed the Icon Prob (missing xpm support), the screensaver was called on friday, so it probably will be fixed next week, i guess ... > > Adding the Backports does not fix the problem with the build > numbers Michael. Hmm, i did not had any Problems in upgrading. > > Lee > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 10:32, Michael Schueller wrote: > Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 16:27 schrieb BandiPat: > > Updating to the KDE3 3.5.3 files will even give > > you errors about digikam & kdelibs3. Installing the digikam in > > the updates cures the problem, but of course when you use yast2 > > or other updater later, it wants to replace the new files with > > the old DVD files. > > Hi, > you have to add the Backports as well > > http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/KDE:/Backports/SUS >E_Linux_10.1/ > > The screensaver Prob is known and in work > > https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=181122 > > Michael > > - Thanks guys, Michael & Graham, For telling me things I already knew! Except maybe for the screensaver thing. I thought someone from SUSE on another list said QT3 .119 fixed this, but guess not. Adding the Backports does not fix the problem with the build numbers Michael. Lee - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 16:27 schrieb BandiPat: > Updating to the KDE3 3.5.3 files will even give > you errors about digikam & kdelibs3. Installing the digikam in > the updates cures the problem, but of course when you use yast2 > or other updater later, it wants to replace the new files with > the old DVD files. Hi, you have to add the Backports as well http://software.opensuse.org/download/repositories/KDE:/Backports/SUSE_Linux_10.1/ The screensaver Prob is known and in work https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=181122 Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
On Saturday 03 June 2006 15:27, BandiPat wrote: > Hi all, > Just finished doing the updates for KDE3 and associated files, but > noticed a little problem. Several files won't update. Why, you ask? > It seems that the build numbers of the files on the DVD9 or CDs, are > larger than the build numbers on the files in the repositories. Take > Digikam or callgrind. Those are just a couple of the files Adrian > seems to have missed. Updating to the KDE3 3.5.3 files will even give > you errors about digikam & kdelibs3. Installing the digikam in the > updates cures the problem, but of course when you use yast2 or other > updater later, it wants to replace the new files with the old DVD > files. Just a little reminder that supplementary sources ( KDE 3.5.3 ) are unsupported and provided for use at your own risk. Cheers Graham - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Anything right about 10.1?
Hi all, Just finished doing the updates for KDE3 and associated files, but noticed a little problem. Several files won't update. Why, you ask? It seems that the build numbers of the files on the DVD9 or CDs, are larger than the build numbers on the files in the repositories. Take Digikam or callgrind. Those are just a couple of the files Adrian seems to have missed. Updating to the KDE3 3.5.3 files will even give you errors about digikam & kdelibs3. Installing the digikam in the updates cures the problem, but of course when you use yast2 or other updater later, it wants to replace the new files with the old DVD files. I understand you (suse) guys are frantically working to correct 10.1, but one would hope a few things get fixed along the way, not more problems introduced. Also, why isn't our selected screensavers coming on after the time we have set? Something we can fix or something still broken in QT3 or KDE3 stuff? Trying to be patient, but Slackware is starting to look better each day! ;o) Lee - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Richard Bos wrote:
> Op zaterdag 3 juni 2006 13:51, schreef Harry ten Berge:
>> What I would like to see that the SUSE specific channels you added to
>> the package (thank you for that!) will be done
>> in a separate package. So the distribution comes with a default package
>> with the Smart tooling, and a separate
>> package with all known additional distribution specific repositories.
>
> Perhaps, a new a channel can be created that provides seperate rpms for each
> possible channel. For now let's call this channel 'channels'. So this
> channel provides e.g. the rpms:
> - channel-kde
> - channel-suser-guru
> - channel-packman
> etc
>
> The idea behind this is to be able to add a channel using the command:
> smart --install channel-
It's even easier to provide .channel files somewhere (like the .repo
files in the Build Service), and just do
smart channel --add http:///guru.channel
smart channel --add http:///packman.channel
etc...
I prefer the idea of a single-click installation of channels, with
.channel MIME handlers for firefox and konqueror/KDE that run a simple
script that runs "smart channel --add" on the file or URL.
Those .channel files are very simple and easy to create.
Here's an example for Packman:
- ---8<-
[packman]
name = Packman 3rd Party Package Repository
baseurl = http://packman.inode.at/suse/10.1
type = yast2
- ---8<-
- - [packman] is the channel's alias (unique identifier)
- - name is just a description
- - baseurl is self-explanatory ;)
- - type is the type of repository (rpm-md, yast2, apt-rpm, ...)
Note that it always holds the SUSE Linux version in the baseurl.
Maybe it would be worth adding a feature to smart to have it replace a
few predefined placeholders in .channel files before processing them, e.g.:
baseurl = http://packman.inode.at/suse/${distversion}
Setting the values for those predefined placeholders is very easy, that
can be done in /usr/lib/smart/distro.py (which is meant to include
distribution specific code and comes with the smart package).
Something like (in distro.py):
- ---8<---
placeholders['distversion'] = '10.1'
placeholders['distarch'] = 'i586'
placeholders['distcanonicalarch'] = 'i386'
placeholders['distoptarch'] = 'i686'
- ---8<---
or
- ---8<---
placeholders['distversion'] = '10.0'
placeholders['distarch'] = 'x86_64'
placeholders['distcanonicalarch'] = 'x86_64'
placeholders['distoptarch'] = 'x86_64'
- ---8<---
and add a patch to smart to parse and process ${...} placeholders in
.channel files.
That way you'd have the same .channel file and the same URL, no matter
what SUSE Linux version you're using.
(we'd need a ${distarch} as well)
I'll have a look if I find some time.
Note that from smart-0.41-24 on, I've written and applied a patch that
adds embedded mirror definition support in .channel files:
- ---8<-
[packman]
name = Packman 3rd Party Package Repository
baseurl = http://packman.inode.at/suse/10.1
type = yast2
mirror = http://packman.mirrors.skynet.be/pub/packman/suse/10.1
mirror = http://packman.rsync.zmi.at/suse/10.1
mirror = http://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/mirrors/packman/suse/10.1
- ---8<-
If you decide to include that channel in your list of channels, smart
will also add the mirrors to smart's mirror configuration (smart mirror
- --show).
I've sent that patch upstream but as of now, only my smart RPM (>=
0.41-24) includes that feature. Note that the smart package that comes
with SL 10.1 does _not_ have support for such "mirror =" directives in
.channel files, but as smart ignores tags it doesn't understand, the
.channel file would still work, just not add the mirrors.
After a few download/install/upgrade runs, smart will recognize
automatically what mirror works best for you, and primarily use that one
from then on.
> Although, I'm not sure that this will actually add the channel, it would be
> nice if this was possible.
It's just a matter of adding a .channel file into /etc/smart/channels/
The next time you run smart (e.g. smart update, or smart install, or
smart whatever), it will detect that new .channel file and prompt you
whether you want to include it or not.
> By creating a new project 'channels' on the build server, it would be
> possible for build server users to maintain the channel rpm.
I'm afraid that's not feasible.
We're getting into the very annoying potential legal issues of Novell
referencing (even indirectly) 3rd party repositories like mine or
Packman that include packages that.. well... you know: mad, lame,
mplayer, etc... ;)
So it
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Harry ten Berge wrote: > Pascal Bleser wrote: >> Michael Schueller wrote: Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 01:31 schrieb Pascal Bleser: > It's very simple though, it just calls "smart update" on a > regular basis (interval is hardcoded in the sources), checks the > output and reports it. So it's a lot like SuSE-watcher. > > If someone with some KDE hacking skills would like to spend a > little time on it, I think it's pretty easy to expand (it already > does the dirty job of interfacing with smart)... or even use > SuSE-watcher and copy/paste the ksmarttray code "smart update" > output checking code into it. if anybody would patch the suse-watcher to check about new updates with the smart engine, it would check the smart sources (channels=sources > jpp) for updates. If you then press the Button "Update now", the SuSE(Yast) Online Update would appear, which has mostly different sources. So it would only make sence when the hacked suse-watcher only checks the suse update repo, and for all other sources you can use ksmarttray... >> >> Well, obviously suse-watcher should also be modified to start "smart >> --gui" instead of YOU (but that's really the easy part) ;) >> > I would really *love* that! > > Since thursday I'm a new Smart lover, *g* yet another lover, smart sure is a busy h...er ;))) > And the main reason I like it so much (besides the fact that it actually > works perfectly ;-) is that it provides a distribution-independant solution. > I think that this is good for general acceptance of Linux on the > desktop. > No need to re-invent the wheel everytime... Absolutely, from that point of view, smart has a huge potential. While it will most probably never become the "default" package manager on all distributions, it is nevertheless available for all distributions, and you can use it everywhere. Same tool, same commands, and the same frontends. Actually, one could write a more capable GUI for package management, based on smart, which would work on any distribution. Personally, I'm rather focusing on smart on SUSE Linux, but the potential is there ;) > What I would like to see that the SUSE specific channels you added to > the package (thank you for that!) will be done in a separate package. > So the distribution comes with a default package with the Smart > tooling, and a separate package with all known additional distribution > specific repositories. - From a technical point of view, I would tend to agree. But not for the sake of end-users, at least for the less experienced. Installing smart on 10.1 currently already is pretty much jumping into hoops for beginners (especially when zypp doesn't work :\), mostly for installing python-rpm first (smart depends on it, and it's not installed by default). Then they have to install smart. Having to install another package (e.g. "smart-suse") will make the procedure even longer (and possibly more complex): http://spinink.net/2006/05/20/installing-smart-package-manager/ http://dev-loki.blogspot.com/2006/05/how-to-install-and-use-smart-on-suse.html http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3456783210.html Another option would be to write some good bash script that would handle all the nitty-gritty, and less experienced users would just need to run that. wget http://.../smart-install-suse.sh bash ./smart-install-suse.sh It would check for rpm-python, install it if it's not present, grab the latest smart RPM, and then the latest smart-suse RPM. Having to run a shell-script that you grab from the internet as root is certainly not the most secure way of doing things, but in the end, people have to trust those who build the packages anyway (but at least packages have signatures and checksums). Apart from that, I would have to split out another subpackage for things that were previously contained in the "main" package. That's going to be an issue for people who already have smart installed and upgrade to that version. I'm not sure I like it. > But first we need a KDE Smart gui :-) Well, yeah, possibly. Though that's not really high priority IMO. A good GUI, whatever the toolkit is, be it GTK2 or QT/KDE. Even though I use KDE as my desktop environment, I don't really care if the GUI uses GTK2, as long as its good. But I always use "smart --shell" so I won't care about that in the first place ;) cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEgY22r3NMWliFcXcRAtjoAJsExenzJqPh1mxBaKc8oMmekeIgHQCgsT1Q 5LGBxwcB2HB4cla+/Pf/8Wo= =FW4k -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray
Op zaterdag 3 juni 2006 13:51, schreef Harry ten Berge: > What I would like to see that the SUSE specific channels you added to > the package (thank you for that!) will be done > in a separate package. So the distribution comes with a default package > with the Smart tooling, and a separate > package with all known additional distribution specific repositories. Perhaps, a new a channel can be created that provides seperate rpms for each possible channel. For now let's call this channel 'channels'. So this channel provides e.g. the rpms: - channel-kde - channel-suser-guru - channel-packman etc The idea behind this is to be able to add a channel using the command: smart --install channel- Although, I'm not sure that this will actually add the channel, it would be nice if this was possible. By creating a new project 'channels' on the build server, it would be possible for build server users to maintain the channel rpm. Just an idea, perhaps it works...? -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Producing Open Source Software
I am not sure whether this has been mentioned here before (could not find anything in the archive) - if so, I apologise for this repetition. There is a free book about OSS development: Producing Open Source Software How to Run a Successful Free Software Project by Karl Fogel http://www.producingoss.com/ It would be a great if everybody seriously involved in the openSUSE project could find some time to have a look at it. I think it's absolutely worth a look and really instructive. Maybe not the chapters related to the technical aspects but the chapters concerned with the social aspects of a project (e.g. "Managing Volunteers"). Cheers, Th. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Package management tool confusion
houghi wrote: > [...] > What ignorance? People are awrae of the impact. The question is what we as > a community can do to explain people what is happening and what is been > done to solve it. (this is openSUSE, right?) Maybe some ignorance at the management level. You're right that we're no longer able to fix the errors that have been made prior to the 10.1 release - so at the moment we can only explain what happened, we can try to provide information to work around some of the problems, and we can try to track down all the issues and help to solve them. I am sure that many developers at Novell/SUSE currently work on fixing the remaining problems. Nevertheless, it's a bad situation and I am sure SUSE Linux has lost some reputation. Therefore, from the community's point of view it's also important to ensure that we will not face a situation like that again! This means, for instance, it's important to convince those people at Novell/SUSE in charge of the release that major changes in a late beta stage are not acceptable from a user's perspective. In our company, nobody would come up with an idea to make major changes in such a late stage of the development process - this was like calling for problems and trouble... Cheers, Th. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray
Pascal Bleser wrote: > Michael Schueller wrote: > >> Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 01:31 schrieb Pascal Bleser: > >>> It's very simple though, it just calls "smart update" on a > >>> regular basis (interval is hardcoded in the sources), checks the > >>> output and reports it. So it's a lot like SuSE-watcher. > >>> > >>> If someone with some KDE hacking skills would like to spend a > >>> little time on it, I think it's pretty easy to expand (it already > >>> does the dirty job of interfacing with smart)... or even use > >>> SuSE-watcher and copy/paste the ksmarttray code "smart update" > >>> output checking code into it. > >> if anybody would patch the suse-watcher to check about new updates > >> with the smart engine, it would check the smart sources > >> (channels=sources > jpp) for updates. > >> If you then press the Button "Update now", the SuSE(Yast) Online > >> Update would appear, which has mostly different sources. > >> So it would only make sence when the hacked suse-watcher only checks > >> the suse update repo, and for all other sources you can use > >> ksmarttray... > > Well, obviously suse-watcher should also be modified to start "smart > --gui" instead of YOU (but that's really the easy part) ;) > I would really *love* that! Since thursday I'm a new Smart lover, And the main reason I like it so much (besides the fact that it actually works perfectly ;-) is that it provides a distribution-independant solution. I think that this is good for general acceptance of Linux on the desktop. No need to re-invent the wheel everytime... What I would like to see that the SUSE specific channels you added to the package (thank you for that!) will be done in a separate package. So the distribution comes with a default package with the Smart tooling, and a separate package with all known additional distribution specific repositories. But first we need a KDE Smart gui :-) Regards Harry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] About repositories and package managers
Pascal Bleser wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 jdd wrote: Would be nice if you could tell ksmarttray to update certain channels (most notably ~/suse/update/10.1 of course) when checking for updates. and probably using different words for similar thinbgs add to the mess. what are those channels? I already had problem undersdtanding what are the different inst-source (not even trying to know what are the different metadata systems) The generic and most appropriate term is "repository". I have not the time to read all this right now, but it seems very interesting. I will certainly manage to make a wiki page with this (from the newbie point of view, and I will post the URL for you to fix errors :-) thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Schueller wrote: > Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 01:31 schrieb Pascal Bleser: >> It's very simple though, it just calls "smart update" on a >> regular basis (interval is hardcoded in the sources), checks the >> output and reports it. So it's a lot like SuSE-watcher. >> >> If someone with some KDE hacking skills would like to spend a >> little time on it, I think it's pretty easy to expand (it already >> does the dirty job of interfacing with smart)... or even use >> SuSE-watcher and copy/paste the ksmarttray code "smart update" >> output checking code into it. > > if anybody would patch the suse-watcher to check about new updates > with the smart engine, it would check the smart sources > (channels=sources > jpp) for updates. > If you then press the Button "Update now", the SuSE(Yast) Online > Update would appear, which has mostly different sources. > So it would only make sence when the hacked suse-watcher only checks > the suse update repo, and for all other sources you can use > ksmarttray... Well, obviously suse-watcher should also be modified to start "smart - --gui" instead of YOU (but that's really the easy part) ;) cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEgXFcr3NMWliFcXcRAnodAJ48K3m+vKubQhI8qgvcY0ExoofmxQCgiHXx CgNF28e5xSO/1hh7Ct+lO4Q= =RoCb -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] About repositories and package managers (was: SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 jdd wrote: >> Would be nice if you could tell ksmarttray to update certain channels >> (most notably ~/suse/update/10.1 of course) when checking for updates. > > and probably using different words for similar thinbgs add to the mess. > > what are those channels? I already had problem undersdtanding what are > the different inst-source (not even trying to know what are the > different metadata systems) The generic and most appropriate term is "repository". Well, the repository is on the server-side, for example: 1) http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-guru/rpm/10.1 2) http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-guru/rpm/10.1/RPMS 3) http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/suse/apt/SuSE/10.1-i386 (1) is a yast2 repository (2) is an RPM-MD (/repomd/yum, see below) repository (3) is an APT-RPM repository The following terms are used by different package managers and are all _references to repositories_. Such references usually contain information such as - - the base URL, where to retrieve the metadata and the packages - - a name but also additional information, depending on what the package manager is capable of handling. - - YaST2 calls them "installation sources" - - ZMD/rug calls them "catalogs" - - smart calls them "channels" (AFAICR, Red Carpet calls them "channels" as well) - - apt-rpm calls them "sources" - - yum calls them "repos" (repositories) but they're all the same thing: references to package repositories ;) Package repositories are made of "metadata". That metadata contains various information about the RPM packages that are available in a repository, such as: - - package name, version, release, target architecture, distribution - - summary, description, license, project website - - what it requires - - what it provides, and the list of files contained in the package That metadata information is needed by package managers like libzypp, ZMD/rug, apt-rpm, smart, yum, ... to be able to compute how to perform package installations, upgrades, removals (the requires/provides information is particularly important here). There are different metadata formats: - - RPM-MD (RPM-MetaData), also called "repomd" (Repository MetaData), also called "yum" (because its the native format for the yum package manager) - - yast2 - - apt-rpm (for RPM) and apt-deb (for DEB) - - Red Carpet (also called Open Carpet) - - RPM-HDL (RPM Header List) - - URPMI (for Mandriva's package manager) - - slack, for Slackware's "package manager" and maybe a few others. So, unfortunately, there's more or less a metadata format for every single package manager. It seems the NiH (*) syndrom has spread a lot amongst package manager developers ;) (*) "Not invented Here" Nowadays, most package managers seem to head for RPM-MD support, which is more or less becoming a standard: - - YaST2 supports it in SUSE Linux 10.0 - - libzypp supports it in SUSE Linux 10.1 - - yum supports it, obviously, it's the yum-specific format ;) - - apt-rpm supports it too, since one or two releases (not the version shipped with SUSE Linux 10.1 though) - - smart supports it, of course ;) (more information about that below) RPM-MD is represented in XML - actually, the repository metadata is stored in gzipped XML files, in a "repodata" subdirectory on the server (*), with the following files: - - repomd.xml: main repository file, very small, contains references to the others, as well as checksums and timestamps - - primary.xml.gz: contains the most important information: list of packages (with version, release, architecture), what it requires, size of the package, summary, description, etc - - filelists.xml.gz: contains the list of files that are included in the packages - - other.xml.gz: not used by all package managers, it contains the changelog information of every package (*) for an example: http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/suser-guru/rpm/10.1/RPMS/repodata/ Read here for more information on RPM-MD: http://linux.duke.edu/projects/metadata/ smart is a notable exception, because it supports *all* of the formats above (and it has no smart-specific format). When you add a smart "channel" (repository information), here are the types you can use (excerpt from "smart channel --help"): apt-deb- APT-DEB Repository apt-rpm- APT-RPM Repository deb-dir- DEB Directory red-carpet - Red Carpet Channel rpm-dir- RPM Directory rpm-hdl- RPM Header List rpm-md - RPM MetaData slack-site - Slackware Repository up2date-mirrors - Mirror Information (up2date format) urpmi - URPMI Repository yast2 - YaST2 Repository (note, I removed the *-sys channels, they represent the packages currently installed in the RPM database (or DEB database on Debian, etc...)) And yes, you can even mix them. In my list of channels for smart, I mix yast2, rpm-md and apt-rpm repositories. smart is even independent of the package subsystem, as it works for RPM (SUSE/Redhat/Fedora/Mandriva), Deb
Re: [opensuse] Live Installer DVD
On Friday 02 June 2006 20:16, Marcus Meissner wrote: > On Fri, Jun 02, 2006 at 05:08:48PM -0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote: > > If Ubuntu Dapper & Knoppix solved that issue - I *really* wish the > > same for SUSE 10.2. > > Our Promo DVD offers Live + Install. Don't know if we have it ready yet. I've been told that it was already mastered for 10.1, but that it was unfortunately 4+ gigs (which is why it wasn't online, I think). Many distros have it now, and working it well; Mepis/Knoppix both who have had it for ages, and Ubuntu/Kubuntu now; though it's not my preferred distribution, it's the fastest and most convenient installation I've done. It's also the perfect idea for new users. Try this out, if you like it, install. Needless to say, I think the SUSE live CD could bring quite a few people in 8). Regards, apokryphos. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] Front page defacing
> Could someone with write access to the front page of opensuse.org fix > the downloadimage? > Someone has changed the image from an arrow to a girl with a phone or > something. Maybe someone got there quick, but it looks fine to me. -- James Ogley [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[opensuse] Front page defacing
Hi Could someone with write access to the front page of opensuse.org fix the downloadimage? Someone has changed the image from an arrow to a girl with a phone or something. -- Kenneth Aar
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray (was: Package management tool confusion)
Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 01:31 schrieb Pascal Bleser: > It's very simple though, it just calls "smart update" on a > regular basis (interval is hardcoded in the sources), checks the > output and reports it. So it's a lot like SuSE-watcher. > > If someone with some KDE hacking skills would like to spend a > little time on it, I think it's pretty easy to expand (it already > does the dirty job of interfacing with smart)... or even use > SuSE-watcher and copy/paste the ksmarttray code "smart update" > output checking code into it. Pascal if anybody would patch the suse-watcher to check about new updates with the smart engine, it would check the smart sources (channels=sources > jpp) for updates. If you then press the Button "Update now", the SuSE(Yast) Online Update would appear, which has mostly different sources. So it would only make sence when the hacked suse-watcher only checks the suse update repo, and for all other sources you can use ksmarttray... Michael - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [opensuse] SuSE-watcher/ksmarttray (was: Package management tool confusion)
Am Samstag, 3. Juni 2006 01:31 schrieb Pascal Bleser:
> Michael Schueller wrote:
> > Am Freitag, 2. Juni 2006 21:52 schrieb Marcus Meissner:
> >>> On a side note: do you know if there are plans to develop a
> >>> KDE native updater applet?
> >>
> >> Yes. We even have found a student who wants to do it ;)
> >>
> >> http://code.google.com/soc/suse/about.html
> >>
> >> Btw, the previous YOU watcher just run a commandline program
> >> ("online_update")... It could be ported to just call "rug"...
> >> ;)
> >
> > How about patching the old SuSE-Watcher to just call smart ..
> > That would be nice ;-)
>
> That's what ksmarttray already does ;)
>
> It's shipped as part of smart, in contrib/, and I package it as
> "smart-ksmarttray".
>
> It's very simple though, it just calls "smart update" on a
> regular basis (interval is hardcoded in the sources), checks the
> output and reports it. So it's a lot like SuSE-watcher.
Hello Pascal,
yes, ksmarttray is a lot like the suse-watcher, but what i actually
wanted to say was, that there was, and is, a tool which has the
flexibility in handling different kinds of sources. Which is well
tested and accepted by the users.
So, whatever zmd wanted to make better, or will do better in futur,
this tool is simply not coming out of the comunity.
It is against the meaning of opensource, and in this way i can not
understand that NOVELL on on hand yells out OpenSource, and on the
other hand fiddles somthing together behind close doors.
It will never be accepted, and it will never be this well dokomented
then smart.
And this is a really bad Point.
At least in germany it´s like that.
When you buy somthing, even when it´s software, and it is not well
dokumented, you can give it back, because it not useable.
So, whatever the good thougts where, they should have never go this
way. They should have taken something out of the comunity where
they can say "we know that it´s working, and here you will find
documentation about".
Thats my point of this
Thanks Pascal for keeping us up2date with smart (and others)
Greets
Michael
> cheers
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