[OGD] Re: Hormones
You can get auxins and gibberillins from Phytotech Labs. http://www.phytotechlab.com/ Please do consider that using too much of the hormones is extremely unhealthy for the plant and may cause deformities. You must use them in the correct range, and not all auxins and cytokinens are the same strength either, some are over a thousand times more powerful than others. I would advise against mixing it yourself unless you either have expereince in mixtures and dilutions, or don't care about killing the plants. Most of those chemicals are active in the 0.1% ranges. Keep in mind, these chemicals are also used as herbicides, because if you go over the range that the plant can tolerate, you will kill it. Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] phytotechlab.com
Has anyone seen the new updated version of this website? www.phytotechlab.com It used to be absolutely perfect, but of course somebody had to go and change it. I guess they hired a new tech guy or something. Well, whatever the reason, I can't even use the damn thing now. If you've been there before and remember the perfection, ease, and navigation, take another look at the horrid mess of it. I can't get around, more than half the links are broken, the pictures are gone, you can't get full descriptions, the MSDS sheets are resource/password protected, the shopping cart is trash, and all the data is in multiple columns, hard to read fonts, but has the description of each item forced onto the screen so you can't tell a damn thing. I urge anyone who went to the old site to check out the new one, and if you think it is half as bad as I do, please let them know in the "Contact Us" area and urge them to ressurect the old version and fire their new webdesigner. Maybe this doesn't belong in this mailing list, but I think it does so what the hell. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re:Statement at Washington Meeting
But here is someting you can all shake you head about : The "Conservation authorities" in Hannover have accused a grower of being involved in Pk smugling because they fond an e-mail on his computer in which he wrote that "he is thinking of traveling to Equador". (This is from an official letter to the "Staatsanwaltschaft" = District Attorney). Thus, thinking of making a trip to South America makes one suspect! I wonder when we will have to apply for a CITES permit to go to the toilet? Where did we get the idea that CITES was ever about conservation, not trade control? "Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsionwhen you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothingwhen you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favorswhen you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against youwhen you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrificeyou may know that your society is doomed. " -Ayn Rand ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] BANROT offer
Anybody want to go in for half of a 2lb bag of Banrot? You'll get a pound of the stuff for about $45. Super-powerful stuff for use on flasklings. Description as such: Broad Spectrum Fungicide for control of damping off, root and stem diseases caused by pythium, phytophthora, rhizoctonia, fusarium and thielaviopsis in ornamental and nursery crops. Rate: Bedding plants 4-8 oz./100 gal. apply to 800 sq. ft. Container and bed grown 6-12 oz./100 gal. apply to 400 sq. ft. Irrigate immediately with additional water equal to at least half the volume of fungicide drench. So has everybody gotten rid of that Netsky virus? I highly suggest everyone use SecureBat and the Anti-Vir Personal Edition plug-in. Works like a charm and gets the stuff norton and mcafee misses. Drop me a line. Steve Topletz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Urea vs. Nitrate Experiment. YOUR Input Wanted!
Hello folks, There has been much discussion about the usability of nitrogen depending on how it is bound. Many people claim that urea nitrogen fertilizers don't get utilized as well as nitrate nitrogen fertilizers. Wayne Roberts, of Roberts Flower Supply (orchidmix.com) and I, Steve Topletz of Nascent Orchids (nascentorchids.com) are partnering up to resolve this debate by putting the fertilizers to the test. We are using Dr. Wang's experiments as a starting point, and we are going to specifically address the issue of urea versus non-urea nitrogen usage. However, in order to make this information relevant, we need to ask you some questions about the materials we use in the experiment. Otherwise, the data won't be practical to most of us. I have created the poll below to for you OGDers to answer. However, since the poll is cheap and free, it is limited to only 100 voters. So vote early if you want to have a hand in the design of the experiment. If you have other suggestions that I have not addressed, please drop me a line. Or better yet, email it to Wayne, he was recently telling me he loves to answer hundreds of emails a day. PLEASE VOTE AT THE SURVEY WEBSITE BELOW IT ONLY TAKES A FEW SECONDS ** http://www.votations.com/asp/survey.asp?pollid=125723 ** Keep in mind, if you are wondering why some things aren't on the list, we are trying to use inert medias to reduce the variables presented. Thanks for your time Steve Topletz [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Mycorrhiza Fungus and Australian Orchids
I believe Heinrich Beyrle may be moving in the direction you are interested in. He works with Australian species, and I know he has had expereience with the mycorrhiza fugi and Australian orchids. His website can be found here: http://www.myorchids.de What specific fungi are you interested in. There are many auxin producers, and a few nitrogen fixers that way be interesting. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] C02 and orchids
as per some plant doctors at Texas A&M: 1. Yes, higher ranges of CO2 appear to be beneficial. Initially. 2. The effects are transient, so forget it. The plants will return to normal rates of growth, because like all living things, they compensate to their environment. This is very much akin to a drug addict who intially experiences a high, but will soon require the same rates of drug to resume normal operation. If you stop giving your plants those high levels of CO2, they will probably go into withdrawl symptoms until they aclimate. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] CITES EXPLAINED, SORT OF.
Over a few month period of time, I have been conversing with Roddy Gabel, Chief of the Division of Scientific Authority, of the USFWS, which governs CITES in the US. He has kindly agreed to help flesh out some of the ambiguous natures of CITES policy application in the US. A simplified transcript is can be found at: http://www.nascentorchids.com/cites.html Hope this clears some things up, Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] palawense info
The Paphiopedilum you are referencing is considered a varietal form of the species philippinense. According to Dr. Braem, "the taxon Paphiopedilum palawense was never described and is therefore a nomen nudum." From the picture in Braem's Genus Paphiopedilum Vol. 1, the petals are shorter and horizontal like rothschildianum, but the rest of the flower is typical of philippinense in color and form. As for the seller, I have nothing positive to say for their reputation, other than it is consistent. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Using IBA in vitro
Well, it is an interesting subject to me. Yes, if you use too high of a concentration of hormones, you can not only retard your growth, but it becomes toxic. In fact, I believe that many weed killing chemicals are just high doses of IBA, I don't remember the specific chemical because killing plants is not my department. FYI: there is a special ratio to which you can use cytokinins and auxins at the same time, and achieve the desired result of both shoot and root enhancement, without getting an imbalance. As to the charcoal and the leaves turning white, apparently all the chlorophylls died? Maybe, and this is just off the deep end, you gave them too little light, and whatever light there was, was absorbed by the charcoal? ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re: Darkening Agents
>A clever idea, but (tragically) not novel. Arditti mentions this in >one of his books; I think it was Ernst who tried graphite as a >substitute for charcoal, and the effects weren't nearly as good. >Ergo, there's something more to charcoal. :-) > >Cheers, > >-AJHicks >Chandler, AZ Charcoal absorbs, correct? What doesn't it absorb? Perhaps it is balancing a proportion which we have miscalculated. In essence, perhaps less is more. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Phal violacea alba
I am looking for some violacea alba. Now wait a sec, yes I know people out there claim to sell them, and even more claim to have them. From what I have seen, this is a representation of scammers and the scammed. They talk about their "alba" as semi-alba, or that most of the selfings turn out alba, some having a light amount of pink, etc. These are bogus, and are not the desireable alba, but merely a washed out form that is NOT alba whatsoever, even if you did manage to get one with the colors all white. In a selfing of an alba, they must all come out white, and even then this does not guarantee an alba, this is just the minimum standard. I'm looking for real alba, the kind that when you cross with a normal color variety, in the first generation you get only normal colored ones. If you get some that are a somewhere between, you have a fake alba, as most of you are aware albanism is recessive. It will only show up in the F2s, and should be only about a quarter of the plants or less. I'm even dubious of yellow in the flower, but I won't hold my breath. So in short, will the real alba please step forward? No hopefuls please, and no poorly represented anthocyanins. What reason do you have to believe that yours is other than reputation? Have you bred with it? Please let me know, Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re:alba Phaleanopsis - or not
Quite right. What I refer to as "alba" of the violacea type is more aptly "alboflava" as the flower is not entirely white, but is devoid of anthocyanins. A true "alba" would be all white as the name implies, but unfortunately we are sloppy with our naming, especially since we are not trained taxonomists, but have the authority to slap names upon a plant. Dr.Braem, feel free to bash my skull in with any corrections. For a greater understand of color designations and their proper use, please refer to my webpage: http://www.nascentorchids.com/color_designations.html As to the misrepresentation, if these suppliers have been breeding phalaenopsis for any amount of time over a few years, especially for any commercial purpose, there is a certain amount of doubt I have for these experts to claim they didn't know it wasn't a true alba. The simple test would have been the mating of a normal form with the suspected albino, having the F1s produce all normal coloration without washout, or it producing 1/4 true alba as the other parent might have had a recessive alba gene. Either way, I do hold those who sell their plants as responsible for the knowledge of what it is they have. I have, as of yet, to be contacted by anyone who is sure their violacea is an albino, but then again I also haven't ever been accused of having a charming personality. Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re: Water
According to my friends at CalTech, in California the propensity to consume water is increasing at such a rate that they will exhaust their own and all surrounding resources for 1000 miles in about 11 years. On a further note, the man who can cheaply turn sea water into fresh water will rule the world. I believe if we allow biotech to develop, we will have a chance to avoid this problem. For example, I have heard that jellyfish tissues could be used as a highly efficient biological filter for desalinization. ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re: Antibiotics
Antibiotics are to my knowledge extremely phytotoxic, more toxic to the plant than to the organism. Feel free to speak with some of the techs at Phytotech Labs, as one of them did a study on this subject. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] ATTN: Andy Easton
Andy, we've never spoken, but I have heard you from afar. Without regard to the AOS pies you've got your fingers in, you seem to be a rather enormous ass. George's "big mouth and combative attitude" are perfectly welcome speech with many of us. Infact, I welcome them over any platitudes which happily agree with the nefarious CITES scam or the implementation thereof. You speak of this tightening of the yolk around "the serious orchid growers" while referring to George's business as a "little backyard operation." One can clearly see that your idea of "the serious orchid growers" is a handful of large commercial producers. It seems to me that you have somewhat lost touch with either reality or your audience. I can start to understand why those who are not the "serious orchid growers" are so angry with the AOS who also share such a commercialized and obtuse view. Steve Topletz Nascent Orchids ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re: Euro Green Asia
George Hampel's Phone: +66 7819 3519 Best of luck. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re: Andy Easton
Andy, I am pleased you have responded in spite of your notoriety. >If you had a few manners and a bit more knowledge >than your postings to date have evidenced I might be willing to >change the situation. My manners are shown through humility and respect, not for mouthpieces but for minds. So if there is a discrepancy between what you think you deserve and what you have received to date, you need to reappraise your position. In contrast, a person deserving of my respect is the brilliant and blunt misanthrope, Dr. Guido Braem, God rest his subscription. >I doubt you're a serious player and I doubt you'll be around >in orchids long enough for your rough edges to be knocked off. I would have thought that such a substantial and wise man as yourself would have learned not to make such broad assumptions. I'm still considering the viability of the floriculture/horticulture markets, but being so low and wide on the GDP, it will be a difficult business to successfully weigh into unless one has a unique talent or idea, or is already king of the mountain. I might bring my unique talents to the market, or I might just throw it away and go do real estate / development / finance. We know you're a top dog, but if you continue to berate your orchid peers and society constituents because we are not the largest names in orchid markets, our respect for you will further diminish. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] James
James, >You are very wrong to think that Andy is only speaking for KB or >Matsui. When Andy refers to George as a backyard operation, that leaves little room to squeeze his statement through the door of reasonable doubt. Maybe not just those two, but we are probably talking of a small room of people. >It gives me great pleasure to know that George's customers are >afraid of Fish and Wildlife knocking at their doors. If they had >only dealt with reputable nurseries then they would have no >worries. It reminds me of the story of the stolen TV. When the >man was arrested for possession of stolen goods, he said to >the policeman "Wait, I gave my friend a $100.00 for the TV." In >the eyes of the law, all parties were guilty. It is somewhat of an annoyance to me. The plants themselves are not illegal, it was only his method of import that broke the law. And if you think your analogy is correct, I would be most pleased to hear of the customers who were gone after by FWS at anytime, when the importer was the one who broke the law. It was not the goods that were illegal, it was the commute. George broke the law not to smuggle in plants that he could not have brought in legally otherwise, but simply to avoid the hassle and incompetence of the government agencies involved. >One more thing. What does the AOS have to do with this? I >believe that Andy was speaking in the commercial sense and >not serious orchid growing hobbyists. Perhaps you're right. I suppose we can let Andy clean that mess up if he wishes, but I recieved a few emails from other small "backyard" operators like myself who read it the same way. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] temperature differential
Sure. Have the AC Device always set to on. Have it plugged into a programmable thermostatic controller. If you can't find a suitable device, use two timers hooked up to dumb thermostats. Timer one turns on and activates thermostat to maintain temp A during the day, timer one turns off, timer two on and activates the second dumb thermostat to maintain temp B during the night. Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re: [II]: pondering career futures
Howdy Charles, I will certainly check it out. My business partner, a brilliant A&M grad PhDing in breeding and genetics at U of F, worked at Hines in Houston last summer. We are currently working out a small contract with Hines as growers for some hardy orchids. Perhaps this will open other avenues for us. Thanks for the update. Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Re: justification
Cal, House Committee on Un-American Activities, et al.: >Steve, I wasn't aware that government incompetence and > hassle was justification to break laws. (Cal) >Wow, if that argument was a reasonable justification for >avoiding prosecution, then what a field day lawyers would have. (Stephen Kemp) Even though they are synonyms, there is a difference between explanation and justification. Justification is where one proves themselves to be right or absolve the action. Explanation is merely to make a matter understood, especially by offering reason for the action. I am not now, nor did I ever attempt to absolve or ratify George's action. What I have done, however, is given an account of what he did, and his reason. Naturally, this was in the vain hope to quell some of the banal condemnation which is hurled down by residents of the ivory tower. He committed an offense of misconduct by not going through the appropriate ritual to get the government's blessing on his plants. He did not commit the crime of smuggling illegal orchids, which most appear to understand him as having done so. Did he circumvent the law for his convenience? Yes. Did he break any moral code? No. Did he put anyone in danger? No. Did he commit an unconscionable act? No. Did he traffic in illegal merchandise? No. Did he contribute to the corruption of society? No. His action was closer to ripping the tag off a mattress, than the villainy that many have made it out to be. I wouldn't be surprised if the wailing and gnashing of teeth was by those who believe the law defines what is right, rather than the right defines what is law. >I thought that "government agencies" and "hassle and >incompetence" amounted to tautology. (Kemp) Sounds like seditious libel, and this is not an approved free-speech zone. Regards, Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] Paph tissue culture?
In theory sure it can be done. En masse, yes, but not quite yet. I have had some experience with hormone application to paphiopedilum leaves, and they show little response other than senescence, death, or deformation. However, the type of cloning you are talking about can be done with paphiopedilum, and has. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] Paphiopedilum cloning.
Andy makes the difficult out to be the impossible in suggesting such a thing. Even though the information isn't published in easily accessable places, it has been done with success. If you are focusing on the meristem for material, you probably won't be doing any mass propagation, unless you can successfully grow and undifferentiate the meristematic cells, which can be done but takes some time. A much faster solution is taking advantage of totipotency, but the problem is still getting worthwhile material back in the bottle. There are many ways to skin a cat, and relying on scarce meristems is rather short-sighted. However, Andy, I do have a question for you as you are in such a position to answer. Do you think there is a global market for mass cloned paphiopedilum? Is there such a product disparity that a sizable profit can only be milked by the largest or the smallest of purveyors? Even though many paphs have an intrinsic value, it is available for us to appreciate because they are not so common place, nor quick to grow. They do not seem to be a very appreicated product by the public. Limited runs of plants would soon become very costly when trying to clone paphiopedilums. Not to mention, you would have to sit on the paphs at least twice as long as you would phals before you turn them. So, if there is only a slim market, and your capitalization rate is lower than phals, which may have a great demand, why would you mass produce paphiopedilums? The best bet I see is limited runs of the greatest genes to select clients, and a private cloning service for breeders. I would be very interested in hearing about the view from the top of the mountain. Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] Paph cloning
In response to Andy Easton, Thank you, this was exactly the information I was looking for. When I parade around a book such as Paphs of Taiwan III, every joe I speak to seems to dislike paphs in general, and think they are rather scary flowers. I'm not sure it is worth pursuing any further, as I do not want to exist only in the retail market if I am doing to do anything horticultural, and paph cloning would probably limit me to just such a market. Do you have any thoughts about alpine or australian flowers, with their amazing colors? In response to William Z Rehrig, Yes, in vitro for sure. We are not likely in the near future to come up with in vivo protocols, which would be the economic solution. As for predicting the market, I would refer to what Andy has said. It can cost as little as 10k $US, but you could do a formal market analysis and see that Andy is probably right. I have observed the same thing. Now, if I was going to pursue paph cloning as a business, it would probably have to be just for species cloning to facilitate conservation or something similar. But that is a philanthropy, and I don't have any illusions about depending on the goodwill of others. Steve T ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] No Market for Paphs??
Well, if Ray Rands wanted to come back, I could probably do something like this when I finish my degree. But everyone, consider: WE like paphs. However, WE are not the mass market, we are specialty consumers, and though we may be large in number, we are insignificant in the open market. So, I'm not even sure a wholesale market is large enough to be comfortable, because the retail market is specialty and scarce and just don't like paphs. I just don't see it happening. Andy, btw, how has the taiwan trade agreement for potted phals affected you? And in the future? Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re[2]: [OGD] No Market for Paphs??
When we start producing kovachii for the open market, I would be interested to seen what people think. A flower that large and colorful might change things up. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] Amazon Highway
Nobody wants to see the rainforests destroyed, but such banal and vague desires won't accomplish much, especially if it stands in the way of economic development for that country. A country has every right to do what they please with their resources. Including sell them, burn them, pave them, etc. They have every right to destroy their resources to prop them selves up to our level of affluence and despair. Now, if we subsidize these countries not to employ these resources, we might have something. Basically, we give them money not to cut down their own trees. Or, we buy the rights to them entirely. Otherwise, we have no right to complain. We have no claim to their resources. Other countries don't exist for our satisfaction, comfort, security, affluence, or actualization, but for their own. Now, everyone who is about to make a complaint or voice an economic concern, quiet yourself and give me your money. I'm taking a collection so we can buy some trees, a tapir, and some grass. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Update: Urea vs. Nitrate Fertilizer study
Speaking of giving me your money, we have been well received at the University of Florida. They have agreed to help us with the Urea vs. Nitrate study by lending us their lab equipment and professor(s). Wayne Roberts of Roberts Flower Supply has been kind enough to give us the fertilizers we will be needing, and flasks of paphiopedilum. What can you do? Well, I'm glad you asked. We need flasks of plants donated for the test. We need them to be of the same seed pod, so we can get valid data, and we will probably need at least 200 of each plant to have meaningful data. Naturally, monetary donations will be appreciated, because I'm going to have to buy a lot of materials to build climate controlled growth chambers, lighting and watering systems, etc. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] None
Well, I might be able to help. Glass does not impart color to the light, it filters wavelengths out. So, when you look at something, it is actually every color except what it looks like. Meaning, if you see blue glass, and blue light coming through it, the glass is not blue. It absorbed every color except blue, and let that light pass through. The glass is actually a combination of the spectrum which does not result in blue wavelengths. Plants generally respond to red and blue light. The red light will help induce flowering, and the blue light will help induce vegetative growth. At the correct wavelength, you can actually cause the stomates to stay open with blue light, and growth to continue. Using green glass would be entirely worthless, as plants themselves are green, and do not care for that wavelength apparently. However, like anything else, when you filter something, you lose efficiency and energy. The plants get less light because you took out the other lightwaves that were not blue, which is a lot. I can find you the paper on the stomates, but that is about it. Run down the acta horticulturae on photoeffects, and there you go. You would probably have to have seperate greenhouses for it to be effective, movings plants from the growth house to the flowering house as selected. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Bloody Hell
For some reason, I haven't got any OGD since the 13th. I went and tried to log in to my OGD acct, no such. It appears I have been unsubscribed. I reregistered, recieved no confirmation, and today I get one of my old OGDs from the 14... Is anyone else experiencing a similar failure? Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] Re : Orchid dealers
If you are looking for Peruvian and Ecuador, search no further than Gypsy Glen Orchids, which is run by the honorable Dennis D'Alessandro. www.gypsyglenorchids.com If he doesn't have it, he knows who will. What kind of genus are you looking for from Thailand/Philippines, as this makes a large difference in who I should refer you to? Regards, Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] "Bootleg" copies of botanical articles
I think that making copies at the library, however prevalent, without authorization is illegal. At least, that is what I have been told at the universities. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Threatening orchid in the UK...
This article is funny for a number of reasons. The new grass cutting method utilized by a horse... I know we may be a little slow on the uptake, but in Texas we call this "grazing." "We think it's a tragedy for the develoopers to destroy this site of natural beauty when they could keep it an open space everyone can enjoy." This is practically a communist statement, at least one of a looter. What right or claim do they think they have for their enjoyment of someone elses property. That is like people coming around to lobby and gaggle about what they think I should plant in my back yard, and when I should mow it. None of their damn business, actually. Their mistake is thinking because their eyes or feet have wandered across it, that it gives them some right to speculate about it with any authority or voice of concern. "We don't think any ecological and environmental scientific study has been taken out ont he site" Well, that about sums it up. He doesn't think it has happened, probably because nobody discussed it with him. Well, let me tell you, from a few thousand miles away, it certainly has. Before land is ever purchased by a developer, it is put under purchasing option, and test are run. They run a geotech analysis, an environmental, soil analysis with plasticity indices, etc all done by professionals, and certified by engineering firms. These are just a few of the tests. Seems rather foolish to buy the property first, get ready for construction, and then say "maybe we should do a land survey first before we dump a bunch of houses on it, what do you blokes think?" So what is going to happen? I'll tell you: Business as usual. The orchids may be a superficial concern, but it is a mere triviality. At worst, the developer will have to pay some extra fees for the damage he incurred to the environment of the orchids. Unless there isn't already a provision by the city for such things, in which case, the whole thing goes off without a hitch. How the hell do I know this? Not to sound snotty, but I've worked at the geotech, survey, and engineering firms. Secondly, my father is a land developer for the US's largest custom home building corporation, and I am familiar with the development process from land entitlement to home warranty. No simpler way of saying it. So, I have a little bit on knowledge on how the whole machine works. What do I mean by environment damage? Let's say that the city says we have to keep so many trees, and we can't affect the water flow across the land. We cut down whatever trees we want, and put in ponds or drain lakes if we please, and displace wildlife. In reparation, we pay fees to the city for cutting down the trees, and we build drainage systems to keep the water flow the same across the land, and coyotes stroll down the street and eat pets. That is the cost of doing business. Ecologically disgusting, but business as usual. If you want an environementally friendly community built into a nature reserve, we could probably build those at quadruple the land costs and you're gonna pay for it, but you certainly aren't getting it for free. But people don't want to buy those. They don't want to pay $450,000 for a smaller home crowded with trees, instead of a $300,000 home with a nice lawn, backyard, swimming pool, patio, community center, and home owner's association. So what should the people do? Ask the developer for permission, enter the land and take whatever plant life and soil you please. He surely doesn't care. That is about as good as they can hope for, and is good publicity for all. At worst, it might cause a slight delay to the development because of publicity concerns, but they will be steamrolled anyway and you can kiss the orchids goodbye. The city isn't going to give up the growth, money, jobs, taxes, and goodwill that the development will bring. Conserving the orchids is in nobody's best interest, except those who don't have any claim to the orchids themselves, and don't stand to loose anything by arresting the development. It is the nature of people to want something for nothing. This is why I advocate buying land that you want to protect from habitat loss, because otherwise you have no say. Even nationalized land can be bought from the less affluent countries. So once again, let's take up a collection and buy up the Philippines. If we really care, let's put our money where our mouths are instead of speculating about what private people should do with their private property. On December 3, 2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > news story : > > "RARE ORCHID MAY BE A THREAT TO GATEWAY SCHEME > > CAMPAIGNERS fighting for Harlow's green spaces are hoping a rare plant will > thwart the controversial Gateway Scheme" > > source and full story : > > http://www.herts-essex-news.co.uk/star/news/story.asp?id=176555 > > > Regards, > > Viateur > > > ___ > the OrchidGui
Re: [OGD] Steve Topletz's Threatening orchid in the UK
Peter, I am entirely aware that the article refers to the UK. However, that doesn't change the fact that the construction is still taking place on earth, in an affluent first world country. They have to use material engineers, soil analysis, geotech, etc., because no developer in their right mind would risk an $80,000,000 investment. We don't do it because it is the law, we do it because it mitigates and minimizes risk, which is a natural law of all finance, especially large multi-million dollar constructions. I have no doubt they have done an environmental analysis, as their investors would be liable for any serious damages incurred, which would be an enormous risk if they are near a college. The bit about coyotes is only for demonstration, as I am not familiar with what dangerous wildlife prowls the woods and grasslands in the UK. I would have thought most people understood that. Your rebuttal that "we do not know," while indefatigable, doesn't serve as a universal defence. I have looked at some other articles, and yes, while deductive, they claim that the government is putting up $11m pounds, and the Sportscentre the rest. I did a little more research and found out that the property is on a 100 year lease, since 1959, and the land is actually owned by the government. Since it is in fact on government land, there is a better chance for preservation. However, since the land is almost entirely developed, this could squash any claims except that the orchid is most resilient. This updated knowledge does make one huge difference in my argument: It is on common land, and my experience and knowledge do not tread onto this subject. I entirely withdraw my argument, as it is predicate upon the parcel being in private ownership. I will be interested to see how this goes down, however, because it does not change my claim that the government in Harlow stands to benefit from the growth, taxes, etc. that the 450 home development will bring. But won't that be odd? People living in homes they own, that is on government leased land. I suppose that is somewhat similar to what we do today in the US on a significantly more transparent and benign scale, except that we do own the land. I would be interested to look at the terms of their lease. "If you'd challenged the description of a field next to a college in central Harlow as being a "site of natural beauty" I think you'd have found fewer critics." ;) I can't stand such out of place parcels without a transition. Bad planning by the town. My Best Regards to the Most Honorable Peter O'Byrne, Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] papilio alba and a dumb question
1: http://www.sdahldtp.com/papilioalba.jpg 2: Yes Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Look what I found at Target (USA)
I was walking through Target last night, and I found a nice door mat for my greenhouse. I asked my gf, jennifer, to take a picture of me holding it, so I could show it to all of you: http://nascentorchids.com/target.jpg Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Papilio luteum?
Julie, 1. I was worried this might come up. I don't typically try to misuse color form nomenclature, but I figured this is probably what you meant. This is probably the closest thing to a true albino form of the plant. Alba/Album does imply that the flower is entirely white, with no kerotine pigments as well. However, because there are no rules to regulate the use and employ of forms, people can take an entirely black plant, and dub it var. alba/album. It would be more appropriate to say the flower is Papilio forma luteum, Papilio forma flavum, or Papilio forma aureum. I actually cannot say as to it being aureum/aurea etc., becuase I do not know if it is spoken as a masculine or feminine genus. Once again, I will quote the brilliant Dr.Guido Braem: "I insist that the people who do not apply 'alba' to pure white are dumb! I cannot change anything about the rules (or about the fact that there are no rules) but I insist on pointing out that this is not an excuse to be illogical." I would interpret him to mean that those who use it on anything other than pure white, are dumb, which he implied earlier when referring to Paphiopedilum haynaldianum f. album, which is almost entirely green. 2. Sure. This is a common reason for leaves to drop. Too many chlorophylls die, or the stomata are clogged, or any number of reasons which results in the plant leaf dropping in efficiency. I will typically use a little bit of dish soap with my chemicals that need surfactants, that way I usually end up doing a little good for the plant. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Color
Bill, I would like to see this publication, any idea of the volume and issue? To everyone else out there: Those color forms, while useful to the AOS judges, seem to be a stereotype of a slightly more complex subject. If you wish to limit your horticultural savvy to the level of understanding prescribed by the AOS, go right ahead. However, if you are writing your tags to be accurate and in accordance with Latin and botanical nomenclature, such designations fall short. Oversimplified AOS designations seem inferior and impotent to describe most color forms and varieties. For example, would the AOS classify a plant as an albus if the flower is entirely white and the leaves have red in them? Yes. But is it an albus? No, it is likely just a washed out flower with inferior coloring. I'll be updating my Color Designations page shortly to expand and explain. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Color.
Yes. There is a great problem: Reds do not only come from anthocyanins. There are actually three main classes of pigment: Porphyrins, Flavonoids, and Carotenoids. Anthocyanins are in a larger pigment class called Flavonoids. Anthocyanins are actually a type of pigment compounds. Compounds included in the anthocyanin type are pelargonidin, cyanidin, delphinidin, petunidin, and more. Carotenoids, a pigment class responsible for yellows, can also be responsible for reds as well. Carotenes, of which there are more than 600 known, produce reds, yellows, and oranges. These include such well known compounds as lycopene, lutein, and beta-carotene. Regarding what Andy said about the genetic problems, I addressed the question to Koopowitz, who said there may be as many as 40 different genes responsible (in Paphiopedilums) for biopathways for color, resulting in all the different variations and why albus A x albus B does not always come up with an albus. Seems like a huge mess. At least some of it can be cleared up, but it requires too much simplification. If i could establish that there were no red carotenoids produced by orchids or a tribe of orchids, we could really get somewhere. We are deeper in the mud than it appears. ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] kovachii and neofinetia
How far off are we from legal kovachii flasks or plants? And in the US? Also, how long to neofinetia take to bloom from flask? Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Neos
Will you be down in D/FW any time soon? Does your step brother have any of the Neofinetia falcata f. Shoujou 'Mary Mulhollan' divisions available? Call me, Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re[2]: [OGD] Re: Dennis/Evolution
I liked your prior response, and I am in agreement with it. Funny you should cite language as evolution, because that was tackled in the Old Testament as well, at the tower of Babel, where G-D confounded the one language into many. ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Paphiopedilum pollinating
Yes. Check out my website in the library section, there are direct links to multimedia slideshows on Paphiopedilum pollination. They are links to Matt Pederson's work. You can find them at www.nascentorchids.com, which has a wealth of links and information on paphiopedilum. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Oh Steve -read the book!
Sharon, Without wading into a huge religious debate, i'll point out something simple. Just because jesus said X and X is consistent with the OT, does not mean that all of Jesus's teachings were in accordance with the OT. Further, if any of Jesus's teachings were inconsistent with the OT, one must reject the teachings of Jesus, because Jesus's authority is premised on the acceptance of the OT. To further define "inconsistent," I mean in direct contradiction to prior statements or law given by G-D. For example, if you believe that Jesus said that the only way to the Father is through him, and you accepted the OT, this would be blasphemous and contradictory. Without citing anything Jesus said, you could look at all the messiah prophecies that were not fulfilled in the OT, and that there was no second coming in the OT. Just some thoughts, ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re: Dennis/Evolution
Marianne, et al You would do well to heed your own advice: >"I would greatly appreciate it if people who do lip service to >their religions would deepen their knowledge through study and >thinking." Your benighted summary of Judaism and Islam is just as offensive as fanatic diatribe: >"The Old Testament was never meant to be taken literally. It was >a collection of myths, history, sanitary advice, and record of >life of the wandering Jews in the Middle East. Christ gave the >world the New Testament to replace the Old. He wanted to put >emphasis on love, empathy, and forgiveness. The Old Testament is >only meant for symbolic interpretation." This is not only opinion represented as fact, but also illogical as it accepts the conclusion while rejecting the antecedent. If the Tanakh (or Old Testament as Christians call it) were to be accepted as truth, it creates a host of incompatibilities with the doctrine of the New Testament. So in Christianity it is rather important to reduce the Old Testament to "symbolic interpretation" and "[not] to be taken literally" in order to avoid cognitive dissonance. Being fully knowledgeable of the "Old Testament," the Jews rejected Yeshua ben Yosef, aka "Jesus Christ," as the messiah. This remains a blissfully uninvestigated pink elephant by most Christians. The Muslims accepted the teachings of Jesus Christ as a prophet (to my understanding) and not as G-D; however they give greater accord to the Hadiths of Mohammed. >"This new round of fundamentalist thinking based on the fanatical >and literal interpretation of the Old Testament is really >frightening, as it is diametrically opposed to Christian beliefs." It sure is. However, subsequent before precedent is still illogical. It is admiring the gilded roof of a house built on sand and symbolism. >"At the moment, we have an uncannily large population of people >who think they are believers of their religions without knowing >the basics of their religions at all. " We sure do. And they would do well not to demonstrate unsound thought nor give ignorant summaries while making an emotional appeal, no matter what their beliefs. And just to add my own two cents: Evolution, if applied as a scientific theory, is applicable to orchids. However, evolution does have severe flaws just as creationism, and it would be foolish to give either greater accord than its respective limitations. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
RE: [OGD] bureaucracy
What does Andy think of this?
Seems to me it would squeeze large corporations, and crush small business and
non-commercial traders.
I would be interested in ya'lls responses, as this would affect so many of us.
Steve
-Original Message-
From: "Jean De Witte"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 12/24/04 3:24:37 AM
To: "Orchids@orchidguide.com"
Subject: [OGD] bureaucracy
Hi everybody,
Just something I picked up on another list. Might be of interest.
Season's Greetings, Holiday Greetings, Christmas Greetings etc to all.
Jean
WHITE LIST PHASE-IN
Dear All,
This is just a reminder that the final date for public comment on the new
"Requirements for Requests To Amend Import Regulations" Docket No. 02-132-1
is December 27th.
Please pass this along to other mailing lists.
The "amending" of regulations refers to requests to add a plant to the list
of commodities that are allowed entry into the US.
This is the next stage in the implementation of the white list ("risk
assessment") - if you enjoyed the recent phytosanitary certificate
requirement, this should be of interest. The new regulations are intended to
apply to "commodities", but will apply to nursery stock as well. Application
to seeds should be phased in during the next five years.
Go to:
http://www.pestlaw.com/x/fedreg/2004/USDA-20041028A.html
for text of the regulation.
Go to:
https://web01.aphis.usda.gov/regpublic.nsf/0/1e1016291df0b29f87256f41006acac
1?OpenDocument
to read comments from a nurserywoman on this.
Got to:
http://comments.regulations.gov/EXTERNAL/Comments.cfm?DocketID=04-24150&CFID
=56963&CFTOKEN=98463295
for how to comment.
If these links don't work, just do a search on "Docket No. 02-132-1" and you
will find it all.
You have to plow through a lot of bureaucratese to get to the most alarming
parts - these are just PART of what they will require from importers:
"Description of all pests and diseases associated with the commodity
proposed for exportation to the United States:
Scientific name (including genus, species, and author names) and taxonomic
classification of arthropods, fungi, bacteria, nematodes, virus, viroids,
mollusks, phytoplasmas, spiroplasmas, etc., attacking the crop,
Plant part attacked by each pest, pest life stages associated with each
plant part attacked, and location of pest (in, on, or with commodity), and
References."
And further down:
"We are requesting public comment as to whether some or all of this
additional information should be required to be submitted with the
information described above, whether some or all of the information should
be considered 'optional,' or whether APHIS should require submission of some
or all of the information only if we deem it necessary during the course of
our consideration of a request."
There has been some talk about making the above "optional" for nursery
stock, but we would do well to remember how the phytosanitary certificate
was "optional" for flowerseed... until the recent outbreak of BSE
(bureaucratic spongiform encephalitis), or "mad bureaucrat disease" struck
the USDA.
(Hey, its just a joke! I have good friends in the USDA. Lighten up!)
Although this proposed rule change is said to apply "only" to fresh fruits
and vegetables, logs, and other "commodities", it DOES apply to "Nursery
Stock (planted in media)", and to "Cut flowers". This will not yet affect
seed imports, but will affect importation of other plant parts. This could
easily be interpreted as applying to all plant parts, as seed is included in
other USDA definitions of nursery stock, and unrooted cuttings could be
considered "cut flowers", and roots, leaves, and other plant parts are
specified in the regulations, and various purposes including propagation are
included.
Also, it should be noted that this is just the first part of the phase-in of
this so-called "risk assessment". See:
"Safeguarding recommendation E-49 recommends that APHIS "Coordinate noxious
weed and invasive species initiatives with review of 7 CFR 319.37 and
330.200 based on rigorous risk assessment". This recommendation was assigned
to the Authorities Safeguarding Issue Group, and it is being addressed in a
combined action plan for recommendation E-4 which states "Begin its
quarantine revision process with the revision of its Fruits and Vegetables
(Q56) and Nursery Stock (Q37) quarantines. Target completion within 5
years". This action plan has already been submitted to the Steering
Committee."
This was four years ago.
Anyone who doesn't take this seriously, should consider that regulations
currently proposed in South
Re: [OGD] Natural / organic fertilisers
How much comfrey do you have? I could use a few hundred pounds of dried comfrey. ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re[2]: [OGD] Natural / organic fertilisers
Charles, Comfrey, while rather dangerous if ingested, has an excellent and unique medicinal value: It rapidly increases the healing of bone and ligament. It just so happens that I need this herb when preparing a formula for kung fu: Dit Da Jow. This is an herbal lineament which promotes the speedy healing of bone, muscle, and skin. Comfrey is a primary ingredient in this westernized formula. Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] temperature differential - how much is too much, how much is insufficient ?
Do you consider what occurs in nature as valid data? Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] changes in OGD administration
Have you considered filitering in addition to word searches, and global blacklist servers? I've cut my spam down to less than 1% of all messages recieved. Steve info> Hello all, info> To make life easier I have implemented some changes to reduce the amount of info> approval work. info> As of now, only contributions coming from registered members are accepted, all info> other mails (around 50+ spam messages daily) are discarded automatically ! info> This will no doubt affect some subscribers to this list. info> e.g. you originally subscribed using [EMAIL PROTECTED] but some time later info> this mail address changed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] then you have a info> problem. info> The mailing software regards both addresses as different so mails coming from info> [EMAIL PROTECTED] are from now on automatically discarded upon receipt info> (no exception !). info> The solution is however easy: subscribe ( info> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ) both info> addresses to the list and set one of them to "no mail" to prevent delivery of info> duplicate messages in your mailbox. This way you can post from both addresses info> but only receive one copy. info> Only a few people so far have ever posted without being subscribed (Eric info> Christenson and Henry Oakeley if I recall correctly) but they are always free info> to join the list should they desire so. info> kind regards, info> Kenneth. info> ___ info> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) info> orchids@orchidguide.com info> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Orchids - court (civil action)
Okay, so the update is that a federal judge scheduled to hear oral arguments? What an excellent report, in that they don't even hint at when that would be. Update aside, welcome to September 2004: http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2004/09/06/smallb2.html?jst=s_rs_hl I think we can all agree that this is less about pest-control, and more about the Hawaiian growers being able to stay in business. Sure, there is the possibility that there could be pests, but I find it rather hard to believe that these commercial growers concern stems from environmental impact, and has nothing to do with them staying afloat. It seems to me this whole thing went off without a hitch. The US government has sold out their domestics to Taiwan. Coincidentally, Taiwan started construction on same amazingly huge government sponsored multi-billion dollar phal production system... before the US gave out their official ruling. To me, this implies that they knew it was going to be a whitewash all along, as will this hearing. The US has probably gone to the trouble of making under the table deals by showing huge favor to Taiwan. I don't find it unlikely the judge will feel international pressure to leave the deal in Taiwan's favor. I am only left to wonder what wonderful payoff the US got for selling out their domestic producers. It's too bad we don't live in a country where the government favors domestic production, and creates laws to promote trade. Instead, we're left with CITES which restrict trade for the purpose of getting their fingers into other people's pies. Flame away, Steve viateur> FYI : viateur> "a civil action filed against the U.S. Department of Agriculture by Hawaii viateur> orchid growers. viateur> The Hawaii Orchid Growers Association wants to block a rule change that viateur> will allow the importation of phalaenopsis orchids in approved growing viateur> media from Taiwan. viateur> ... viateur> "The threat it not only economic, but environmental. With this rule change, viateur> APHIS would diminish its already strained ability to keep destructive new viateur> pests from entering the U.S." viateur> APHIS is the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service, a Washington, viateur> D.C.-based division of the U.S. Department of Agriculture." viateur> source and complete news story : viateur> http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2005/01/03/daily44.html viateur> *** viateur> Regards, viateur> Viateur viateur> ___ viateur> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) viateur> orchids@orchidguide.com viateur> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re[2]: [OGD] Orchids - court (civil action)
This was an excellent and well informed response, thank you very much. Good argument. However, I have one objection or rather point of clarification. How does cheaper orchids to Walmart give a great enough payoff to the US to turn their back on domestic producers? If we apply game theory, I don't see much payoff except for a slight reduction in market inefficiency at the cost of $100 million to the GDP. I know $100 million is a drop in the bucket, but that is still a lot of something to trade for a lot of nothing to another country. Regarding Taiwanese being good businessmen, I would agree. I would have done the same thing if I could, naturally. My concern is that we live in the US and pay taxes in order to have our trade and merchant access/channels protected. Are you saying because the businesses were so insignificant (tax write-offs, <$1b producers) that the government felt justified in shedding no protection for them? I can understand it, certainly, but I sure don't agree with it. There should be more protection for small business to assure they have equal protection against subversive legislation. Perhaps it is our/their fault, simply because they didn't hire smarter business people/lawyers to represent them before this became an issue. Hindsight is 20/20 afterall. Thanks, Steve Topletz Paul> So how does this differ from anyone else's desire to stay in business? Paul> This is America, where capitalism is takes the form of protectionism Paul> and subsidies; we are just like France! Frankly, the horticultural Paul> industry in general has never been viewed seriously by USDA or other Paul> federal offices as being economically significant to the U.S. - it's a Paul> petty consumer item, nothing more. Look at how the USDA treats Paul> horticultural products when itemizing production and economic value of Paul> crops. The only ones separated individually are those that have had Paul> many years of Ag industry lobbying, support payments of various sorts, Paul> and are viewed as international trade products. How many units of Paul> orchid futures are traded in the mercantile houses versus artichokes? Paul> Simply, the Hort industry fails to have a level of influence on Paul> government that even begins to resemble the Ag industry. And how could Paul> it when the bulk of the industry is largely a loose conglomeration of Paul> small operations that are more separate and independent small-business Paul> tax write-offs than investment-worthy corporations. Where is the Paul> industry cohesiveness? At least with orchids, it is by-and-large a Paul> cottage industry in the U.S., with the largest producers having only a Paul> limited and tenuous toehold in large markets. >> It seems to me this whole thing went off without a hitch. The US >> government has sold out their domestics to Taiwan. Paul> Quite possibly. But, consider that the Taiwanese business persons are Paul> not stupid. They perfected the art and science of Phalaenopsis mass Paul> production (and are doing the same with others), they learned about and Paul> understood the marketplace, they learned he laws, they understand the Paul> trade treaties, they began the lobbying efforts early in the process, Paul> they secured government backing, and they set up their production and Paul> marketing strategies to deal with the obvious and basic problems. And Paul> why did they do this? Well, that seems rather obvious, there was a Paul> market not being filled. In part, you can thank your neighborhood Paul> Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, and other so-called box stores who have been Paul> the main drivers on so-called cheaper products - which do not come from Paul> the USA, by and large. Simply, there is no serious competition for Paul> them at this time. >> To me, this implies that they knew it >> was going to be a whitewash all along, as will this hearing. Paul> That's because they are prepared. They did their homework. They are Paul> good businesspersons. >> The >> US has probably gone to the trouble of making under the table deals >> by showing huge favor to Taiwan. Paul> No trouble. Any pressure from the American hort industry, orchids or Paul> more generally, failed to materialize or provide influence at the Paul> critical times. >> I am >> only left to wonder what wonderful payoff the US got for selling out >> their domestic producers. >> Paul> Cheaper plants at Wal-Mart. It's still the politics of the Caesar's: Paul> keep the mob happy. In this case, at this time, the mob is happier Paul> with Ecuadorian roses, Jamaican and Thai Dendrobium, and Taiwanese Paul> Phalaenopsis and Oncidium. The novelty, really, is that the Phal's are Paul> potted
[OGD] Paph sangii
ATTN: ancient paph experts I have seen sangii plants with greatly varying holotype in leaf color and mottle. Is there a way to distinguish an unflowered Paph sangii from Paph sangii f. ayubiianum? Should I just resign this to variability rivaling Neofinetia falcata? Steve ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Paphiopedilum sangii f. ayubiianum
While I have been informed that sangii f. ayubiianum has not been formally described, after seeing the pictures and flowers of the plant, I would want to tell you it is a different species altogether. I shall forward you a picture of the plant to your personal mailing address. ST Peter> Steve Topletz said: "I have seen sangii plants with greatly varying Peter> holotype in leaf color and mottle. Is there a way to distinguish an Peter> unflowered Paph sangii Peter> from Paph sangii f. ayubiianum?" Peter> Steve, I'm not a Paphiopedilum expert (ancient or modern) but I am an Peter> expert on the orchids of Sulawesi. P. sangii is endemic to Sulawesi, Peter> and I'm one of an extremely small number of orchid-people who has ever Peter> seen this plant in the wild ... on several occasions in different Peter> locations, at that ! Peter> I was not aware that there is more than one form of the species. Your Peter> use of a latinized form of Mr Ayub's name implies that a variation Peter> exists that has been formally documented ... ie, published in a Peter> recognised journal with a voucher specimen lodged in a recognised Peter> herbarium. Peter> Would you please give details of the publication, author, and herbarium ? Peter> Peter O'Byrne Peter> Singapore Peter> PS .. "holotype" has a very specific meaning to botanists. Maybe you Peter> meant to use a different word ? Peter> ___ Peter> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Peter> orchids@orchidguide.com Peter> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Paphiopedilum sangii f. ayubiianum part II
Yes, I do realize that the plants must be collected and preserved as official points to technically be types. However, in some of the collected and described specimens from the original publication, there is an unstable genetic abberation of symmetrical incisions upon the dorsal. So even in the original collection of the plants to be described you had wide variation, even though it was not THE selected single plant that had the variation. So I am only right in a sense, but not technically. Not only is the leaf mottle and size different, but you will notice the flower morphology is very different. According to Braem, no isotype of the originally described holotype has been found. Although he did not say this as a direct quote, he and Chiron said "Several clones of P. sangii have been introduced to cultivation. Plants matching the original description have not been re-introduced," (Paphiopedilum 2003.) I believe that the holotype was originally described in Die Orchidee, 38(4) on page 169. So when I say that the holotype is variant, I mean in so much as the plants are different in growth and flower, including the unstable genetic abnormality that was noted in the original holotype specimen collections, to the point where no flowers matching the original description have been found. ST Peter> PS .. "holotype" has a very specific meaning to botanists. Maybe you Peter> meant to use a different word ? Peter> ___ Peter> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Peter> orchids@orchidguide.com Peter> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Paphiopedilum sangii so-called "forma ayubiianum"
Fair enough. However, Peter, I am not the originator of the unrecognized sangii f. ayubiianum, and I do not mean to represent it as though I am, or that it is infact correct or accepted. I know it isn't. But without a more simple logos to explain it, I reprinted f. ayubiianum in hopes that others who have specific experience with this unrecognized form may respond. The fact that you looked it up and knew it wasn't correct should have clued you in to this. Peter> Latin Peter> (or latinised) names are reserved for correctly-published scientific Peter> names and should not be applied, willy-nilly, to horticultural Peter> variants. It is easy enough to check if a Latin name has been Peter> published; if it hasn't then you shouldn't be using it. If you Peter> really, really insist on adding an extra name to one of your plants in Peter> order to distinguish it from others, then give it a cultivar name. What I don't understand, among many things, is why I am being attacked about this as though they are my plants, my personal naming, or my ego. You've gone off the hook a bit over someone who asked a question. Regarding incorrect Latin naming, I am well aware. You may or may not recall a website I created organizing and explaining the nomenclature of color forms, and the difference between varieties and forms. As to the staminodes, I cannot confirm either are not hybrids as I have only been sent an image of a picture. ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
RE: [OGD] AOS Bulletin(s) / digitization (scanning)
Forget the AOS budget. Get my university to give me a credit for it and I'll have it done before the next AQ arrives. Seriously, Steve Topletz -Original Message- From: "Giles Smith"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 1/16/05 6:00:26 PM To: "Orchids@orchidguide.com" Subject: [OGD] AOS Bulletin(s) / digitization (scanning) It strikes me that such a project would be one of the most valuable contributions the AOS could make to its members. Few of us have a complete set, or ready access to a library possessing such a set. Therefore, the information that has been published over the years is essentially unavailable to us. Yet the internet provides an incredibly powerful means of making the entire set available to anyone who needs it, and the scanning technology and associated software (Acrobat, etc.) are readily available. Despite such advantages, I can easily imaging such a project slipping way down on the AOS list of budget priorities. It is the kind of thing that can always be put off until "next year." Is there any way that orchid enthusiasts could create some indication of demand for such a service, and convey that information to the AOS? We need some creative thinking here. Giles Smith ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] EC & TDS
In speaking with my friend who has a degree in horticulture, he says that TDS isn't unique at all to orchids, and that TDS, EC, and pH are very important for all commercial greenhouses, orchids aside. Ray> In speaking with scientist at several fertilizer companies, I have Ray> learned that focusing on TDS is pretty much unique to orchid growers, while Ray> just about everyone in any other horticultural segments thinks in terms of Ray> the EC (electrical conductivity) of the nutrient solutions. Ray> Ray> Given the facts that TDS meters are just EC meters with built-in Ray> conversions, and that the ionic makeup of solutions affect the EC, giving Ray> different conductivities for the same true TDS, it is a poorer measurement Ray> in the first place. Ray> Ray> Does anyone have any factual background as to why we focus on TDS? Ray> Ray> I'm not looking for the usual comments about some plants needing very Ray> pure water or anything like that, but instead, some specific basis for TDS Ray> rather than EC. Ray> Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com Ray> Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info! Ray> . ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] paphiopedilum rothschildianum
I have had a rothschildianum bloom with only a 13" leafspan, if that is of any help. Steve Ron> Hi all. Ron> Am interested in seeing various growers of Paphiopedilum rothschildianum, Ron> comments on the average time from flask to flowering. >>From the little info I have been able to find, it seems some say 10 years Ron> other 15 to 20 years. Ron> At present I have only 1 plant. it was bought 4 years ago in a 50mm tube, Ron> leaf lenght was about 50 mm.. Ron> Age I guess about 2 years old. Ron> So as a 6 year old plant its leaf lenght at present is 220 mm. Ron> First few years it did not grow much but is now moving along nicely. Ron> I plan to buy a few more but would appreciate comment on experienced time Ron> from flask to flowering on average. Ron> Say out of a group of 10 plants, how long before the first plant flowers to Ron> the last plant flowering. Ron> I repot my plants each year in a bark/diatomite mix suited to the size of Ron> the pot. Ron> Mostly use rain water on all my Paphs if avaible. Ron> I know the temperature can play a lot on its growth, my temp is about minium Ron> 10 deg. C at night in winter and on average about 18 to 20+ deg. C winter Ron> day temp. Ron> Summer is about 17 deg. C at night minium, and about on average 28 deg. C to Ron> 30 deg. C on summer days. Ron> We live close to the sea and humidity is at night about 90 % and above, day Ron> can get to about 50 % humidity summer and winter (Give or take a bit on odd Ron> days). Ron> Above the Paphs I have several Nepenthes hybrids and species growing. All Ron> grow like weeds. Ron> this give an indication of growing conditions. Ron> Thanks in advance and looking forward to your replys. Ron> Ron Boyd Ron> In sunny NSW Australia Ron> ___ Ron> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Ron> orchids@orchidguide.com Ron> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Orchid virgins
Thank you Brian O'Brien. I like this story. I want to hear more about this sort of thing. Does anyone else have more stories of how they were introduced to orchids? Seeing a roth for the first time sounds profound; I imagine it had the effect of making other flowers pale in comparison. I know this sounds stupid, but let me tell you a short story. I am an addict. I play an online game called counter-strike. You basically compete with other people online, trying to shoot them before they blow up the target. In this game, you have the ability to spray paint designs onto objects. The designs are standard and limited to one color. However, they can be hacked so you can insert a picture to share with people. Essentially, you can instantly spray paint a large photograph on any surface of the game. I have recently been graffitiing Paphiopedilum species photos all over the place. Since I have started, I have caught many people who have stopped paying attention in the game to stare at the orchids. Naturally, I shoot their brains out. But when the game is over some of them ask me about the flowers, they are amazed that plants can produce flowers so scary, unique, and beautiful. Steve Topletz Brian> I bought some seedlings of P. rothschildianum in 1989, grew them under Brian> lights until 1998 (when a tornado necessitated their transfer from my Brian> basement), then gave them to our college greenhouse. The first one Brian> flowered last year. The effect on a number of people, upon seeing the Brian> flowers, made it worth the wait. Brian> Brian O'Brien Brian> At 12:02 AM 1/28/2005, you wrote: >>I have grown about 20 seedlings of Paph Rothschildianum over the past 20 >>years. Under my conditions (home under lights), all but two have grown >>very slowly and show no inclination to bloom. One has grown almost large >>enough to bloom. One has grown very quickly, bloomed at about 10 years, >>and has bloomed three times since. All were in the same kinds of pots, in >>the same media, under the same lights. Over the years, there have been >>noted clones which were good performers and are responsible for the bulk >>of hybrids involving Roth. With time, the faster growing, freer flowering >>clones will predominate. But for now, expect great variability. >> >>Clark Riley >>Baltimore, Maryland, USA >> >> >>___ >>the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) >>orchids@orchidguide.com >>http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com Brian> -- Brian> Brian A. O'Brien, Department of Chemistry, Gustavus Adolphus College Brian> 800 West College Avenue, Saint Peter, Minnesota 56082 U.S.A. Brian> e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian> tel. (507)933-7310 fax (507)933-7041 Brian> http://www.gustavus.edu/~bobrien Brian> ___ Brian> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Brian> orchids@orchidguide.com Brian> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] In Search of Paphiopedilum Photos
Hello Everyone, I am looking for images of Paphiopedilum in situ. People have seen the plants in cultivation, and there are so many out there. What there are not enough of are pictures of how the plants grow and exist in nature. From the pictures I have seen in many of the genus books, the orchid in its habitat often is much more spectacular than a potted plant from a greenhouse. I would like to create an online gallery of images of Paphiopedilum species in situ in order to help create more awareness and appreciation for orchid conservation, especially Paphiopedilum. If you would be able to help by donating any pictures from your travels, I would be most appreciative. Naturally, all photographs used will be cited by owner or in the case I recieve license from a book, from the original publication and owner. Any image size or format is acceptable, I know my way around Adobe Photoshop. And please, only send me photos you have the rights to grant permission to! Thanks again, Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] (no subject)
You should talk to Robert Marsh. There should be Barkeria species in the trees. Steve Bernard> I am going to vacation in Oaxaca, Mexico, in March. Does anyone have Bernard> suggestions about good orchid habitats in that region? Gardens and Bernard> nurseries would be helpful too. Bernard C. Gerrard Bernard> ___ Bernard> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Bernard> orchids@orchidguide.com Bernard> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
RE: [OGD] Dependable source for Paphs
You want to visit Krull Smith orchids in Apopka. They have reasonably priced huge paphs in their greenhouses. Kolopakingii species and crosses abound. Steve -Original Message- From: "Jim Miller"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 1/30/05 2:31:02 PM To: "Orchids@orchidguide.com" Subject: [OGD] Dependable source for Paphs Greeting all, This is my first posting. I have really enjoyed reading many of the messages here. I grew up in Miami and had a huge collection of orchids, as well as carnivorous plants (Sarracenia, Drosera and Nepenthes). But I got to moving so much, I couldn't keep my collection. But now I am close to retiring and live in Florida again (this time in Tallahassee, where we have had a cold, miserable winter so far). It's definitely time to start growing again. I've purchased some nice Paphs and Phals from our local nursery, but since they don't sell well, they are ridiculously expensive. I'm hoping one of you knowledgeable and experienced people can point me in the right direction for a dependable (and affordable) source of plants. I'm mainly interested in Paphs and Phrags, but heck, they are all so beautiful. I just finished off a tropical (heated) greenhouse and also have a multi-rack stand with grow-lux lamps for the cool growers. Any help would be appreciated and I wouldn't mind hearing from dealers. Thanks in advance (and I can't wait for spring to get here)! Jim ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Guido Braem
As would I. Guido, we await your return. Regards, Steve John> Further to Phil Diamond's rumour re Guido coming back, Guido has informed me John> that he is seriously considering returning to OGD in John> the near future. John> I for one would welcome his return and expertise to this group. John> Cheers John> John John> ___ John> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) John> orchids@orchidguide.com John> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Phrag. kovachii/genetic finger print
If one wished to use these plants to identify if progeny came from them all you have to do is insert a genetic marker in the plant or seeds or clone. I am informed by my horticultural friend that this is relatively simple. Steve Clark> Genetic variability among even closely related individuals runs at Clark> least 1/10%. The greater the genetic distance, the greater the Clark> variation. The size of the sequences described here is probably not Clark> enough to show much, if any, variability unless the sample is from a Clark> genetically extremely diverse population. The idea of tracing hybrid Clark> parentage by this technology, while technologically possible, if Clark> fraught with uncertainties. It strikes me that we are attributing a Clark> precision and feasibility to a process which is still imprecise and Clark> very costly even for humans. DNA analysis is only being applied today Clark> to the most significant cases (except on TV). Interestingly, in the Clark> human cases, DNA analysis has taken more people OFF death row than it Clark> has put ON death row. Clark> On the other hand, looking at genes for phylogenetic studies is more Clark> what this appears to be. In those cases, the instruments are already Clark> set up and the protocols fairly well established. Adding another few Clark> species to the experiment is relatively cheap. Clark> I would certainly expect that kovachii and a host of other currently Clark> off-limits species will be propagated out of the news by legitimate Clark> routes long before any Orwellian scenarios rear their ugly heads. Clark> Clark Riley (former director of a DNA analysis lab) Clark> Baltimore, Maryland, USA Clark> ___ Clark> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Clark> orchids@orchidguide.com Clark> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re: Orchids Digest, Vol 7, Issue 61 Discussion of orchid mediums perlite or VErmiculite
I don't know about you, but this sounds like horse shit to me. What about paphs? ST Nic> www.vision.net.au/~nicvdb Nic> - Original Message - Nic> From: "rec.gardens.orchids group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nic> To: "rec.gardens.orchids digest subscribers" Nic> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nic> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 5:18 PM Nic> Subject: 17 new messages in 8 topics - digest Nic> What is all this discussion on perlite and vermiculite when horse Nic> manure provides the perfect medium for orchids. What do people mean by Nic> 'good results'? A plant that is still alive or a plant that has Nic> multiple spikes. Check the photos on my website of the spikes and the Nic> root formation. Have you ever seen better roots on a plant grown in Nic> any other medium? Nic> - Nic. Nic> ___ Nic> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Nic> orchids@orchidguide.com Nic> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re: Orchids Digest, Vol 7, Issue 69
I typically apply it to my lips at a rate of 1 smear per low-humidity day. WJTJP> Karmax can be used on mature orchid plants at a ratio of 1 WJTJP> tablespoon per gallon. It will take up to 2 weeks to see the resulting WJTJP> dead weeds.OFE ia a local supply hiuse that sells it. Never seen any WJTJP> damage except to weeds. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] work areas and storage
How about a quonset? Leslie> Does anybody have pictures or ideas for storage of dirt, Leslie> potting stuff, pots, and all the rest of the stuff you need for Leslie> gardening and orchids? I'd like to put some sort of wood structure on a Leslie> slab behind my house (South Florida) and am looking for ideas. Leslie> Something practical and not too big. Thank you. Leslie> ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Large plastic pots
Ask wayne of www.OrchidMix.com, if he himself doesn't have it, he probably knows who does. ST Peter> Can anyone help me find 12 inch or larger plastic pots suitable for Peter> orchids? Thanks. Peter Hirsch Peter> ___ Peter> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Peter> orchids@orchidguide.com Peter> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Hydroponic techniques and virus
The solution to this is passing your water through a UV and/or Ozonation filter. However, this only cleans out the water passing through your system, not necessarily the water traveling to each plant. However, if you have a unique water return for each plant or just a few, you would be much better off. This is the same problem I've run into with doing an ebb/flow system, because it is just so easy to pass along virus/bacteria/fungus plant to plant, especially from the roots. ST Tom> Charles Ufford mentioned the idea of placing phrags in a recycling Tom> flooded bench: >>... pot them in medium sized diatomite chunks, in clay >>pots, in a constantly recycling flooded bench, using excel pH-balanced >>fertilizer that comes out of the hose with a low pH. I have my few Tom> phrags >>that like wet feet in clay pots with small diatomite, sitting in a Tom> large >>clay saucer, and I fertilize very little and they grow much better now. Tom> I >>should say, now they grow Tom> This type of thing has been mentioned by others a number of times. I Tom> have always been a little leary of this practice as with the habit of Tom> "dunking" plants in a common bucket or tank. My thinking has been that Tom> this would be a mechanism for transfering virus (and other) problems. Tom> Has anyone seen any true research (beyond somethin anecdotal) to this Tom> effect? Just curious. Tom> Tom Bell-Games Tom> Tom> Note: Tom> These electronic documents are provided by Burgess & Niple (B&N) as a convenience to our clients. Tom> * The official document is available as a manually signed, Tom> initialed, or sealed hard copy. If there is a discrepancy between Tom> electronic files and the hard copies, the hard copies shall prevail. Tom> * It is our professional opinion that this electronic information Tom> provides information current as of the date of its release. Any use of this Tom> information is at the sole risk and liability of the user. The user is Tom> responsible for updating information to reflect any changes in the Tom> information following the preparation date of this transmittal. Tom> The delivery of this information in electronic format is for the Tom> benefit of the owner for whom the services have been performed. Nothing in Tom> the transfer should be construed to provide any right to third parties to Tom> rely on the information provided, or that the use of this information Tom> implies the review and approval of Burgess & Niple. Tom> ___ Tom> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Tom> orchids@orchidguide.com Tom> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Very VIVID edible orchid flowers.......
Interesting. Well, I live near a college campus. If I can get a few blooming size plants of it, we can find out pretty quick. Anyone know if there are toxic alkaloids in Oncidium? ST Dan> Howdy. Dan> I've seen it written a few places that Onc. ceboletta has halucinogenicproperties. Dan> Which part of the plant? I dunno. Dan> How the Indians got it into the bloodstream--eating, smoking? I dunno. Dan> Yeah, like I needed yet another reason for all these"flashbacks". ;>) Dan> Dan S. Dan> P.S. I think Mardi Gras just happened, but I can't really quiteremember.. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Eating orchids
Fox testicle orchids, i think. Gerald> I laid back on this theme because I couldn't remember exactly and thought Gerald> someone would comment. Something about ice cream and orchid roots and Gerald> Greece(? maybe). Gerald> Jerry in IN Gerald> ___ Gerald> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Gerald> orchids@orchidguide.com Gerald> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re: Eating orchids...
What media are you using to germinate them? What soil are you using once you transplant them? ST Rifat> Hello OGD'ers, Rifat> I'm from TURKEY. Yes, in my country, we use orchid tubers ( Rifat> tubers of Orchis italica, Barlia robertiana, Anacamptis pyrimidalis, Rifat> Himantoglossum affine) to make ice-cream. It give very hard and viscous Rifat> ice-cream which can be truck a caravan ( I saw at a television show). I'm Rifat> a PhD student in Ege University Agriculture Faculty. Previous year some Rifat> peoples offered salep (tuberous orchid) producing project to us ( Rifat> because, collecting salep tubers from nature is prohibited now). I have Rifat> some succes on germinating of the seeds, but, transplanting to the soil Rifat> is a problem. Although I use fungicide ( carbendazime), I lost nearly all Rifat> of the salep plantlets when I transplanted to the soil, due to the mould Rifat> contamination. Have you got any suggestion ? Thanks . Rifat> Rifat> Rifat Tarik Yararbas Rifat> Rifat> __ Rifat> Do You Yahoo!? Rifat> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around Rifat> http://mail.yahoo.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re: Eating orchids...
Steve, here are my suggestions for Rifat: If the seeds are germinating in the flasks I would doubt the agar media is the problem. I think the media is the problem. There are a few options here. My first choice would be to change the media. Peat and perlite makes a very thick mix. so if you are intent on using perlite try something like 3/4 perlite and 1/4 peat. I still don't like that mix though. I'd try something more like 1/2 finely shredded sphagnum, 1/4 perlite, and the rest should be a mix of fine coconut husk, small pieces of bark, and a peat. This mix will help to keep the roots moist but not wet. My guess with the media before would be something like the top layer is drying out too fast so continuous watering must be done. This never allows the soil a chance to dry out and is a vector for pathogens. The other thing that should be done it pasteurization of the soil. I like to get my soil mixes moist and then bake them at about 425 for about 10 minutes or until it's all completely hot. Peat will contain the potential for lost of disease so it's possible that just pasteurizing the peat perlite mix he is using might fix the problem if more care is taken with the watering system. I would also be careful how much fungicide you put on there cause you can kill the beneficial fungus as well. This would make reinfection of the symbiotic fungi less likely. This is my take on it. Forward it to him after you have read it and if you have any input let me know. Dave Rifat> Hello OGD'ers, Rifat> I'm from TURKEY. Yes, in my country, we use orchid tubers ( Rifat> tubers of Orchis italica, Barlia robertiana, Anacamptis pyrimidalis, Rifat> Himantoglossum affine) to make ice-cream. It give very hard and viscous Rifat> ice-cream which can be truck a caravan ( I saw at a television show). I'm Rifat> a PhD student in Ege University Agriculture Faculty. Previous year some Rifat> peoples offered salep (tuberous orchid) producing project to us ( Rifat> because, collecting salep tubers from nature is prohibited now). I have Rifat> some succes on germinating of the seeds, but, transplanting to the soil Rifat> is a problem. Although I use fungicide ( carbendazime), I lost nearly all Rifat> of the salep plantlets when I transplanted to the soil, due to the mould Rifat> contamination. Have you got any suggestion ? Thanks . Rifat> Rifat> Rifat Tarik Yararbas Rifat> Rifat> __ Rifat> Do You Yahoo!? Rifat> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around Rifat> http://mail.yahoo.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re[2]: [OGD] ghost orchid
Gunter's Greenhouse in Dallas Texas has them by the truckload. ST pgordini> Juli, pgordini> Mick Fournier at HBI over in Pompano used to have them in flasks pgordini> Paul LeBlanc pgordini> -- Original message -- pgordini> Dear folks! pgordini> pgordini> Just saw Mike Owen´s interesting tour in search for the ghost orchid at pgordini> http://www.floridastateparks.org/fakahatcheestrand/default.asp pgordini> pgordini> http://www.floridastateparks.org/fakahatcheestrand/photos/ghost_orchid9.exe pgordini> pgordini> and I´ve decided I want to try to grow it. pgordini> pgordini> Will someone know where I can buy one (in the US) pls pgordini> Appreciate the information pgordini> TY pgordini> julie, caracas, venezuela ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Orchids of the tropical world
What error do you get? Bert> Hello to all of you, Bert> last week we bought a new(er) computer and it runs on Windows XP. Bert> But now I can't install my Lighbinders "Orchids of the tropical world" Bert> cd-rom anymore. Does anybody have the same problem, and do you know how I Bert> can solve this problem? Bert> Kind regards from The Netherlands, Bert> Bert van Zuylen ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Solution for Dehydrated Orchids
The pseudobulb may not come back. But the plant will still want energy. Okay. Here is the secret. You need to juice up the plant with energy, not just water. if you use pure water, you're stealing energy from the plant. Create a soak of: 2 part sugar 1 part drinking alcohol (any kind. my plants enjoy Bombay Sapphire) 7 parts cold water 1 pinch of epsom salt 1 drop superthrive 1 drop dish soap Submerge the plant for a 2 - 8 hours in the dark after the soak, wash it off in clean cold water. make sure none of the original soak is still on any part of the plant or you can get rot. Steve Topletz Barrie> Dear Fellow Orchid Enthusiasts: Barrie> Barrie> Last Sunday I purchased for a pittance an Oncidium (don't Barrie> know the variety) that is almost completely dehydrated. It's Barrie> pseudobulbs are shrivelled almost flat, though they and most of the Barrie> leaves are still green. I'm hoping one of you experts (which I'm not) Barrie> could give me some advice as to rehydrating it without inducing rot. I Barrie> soaked for 15 minutes or so upon getting it home, let it dry out and Barrie> watered again Wednesday, but it seems as if the medium is taking longer Barrie> than normal to dry, I suppose because the roots are not taking up the Barrie> moisture, and there has as yet been no "plumping-up" of the bulbs. Barrie> Barrie> If I can I'd love to keep it alive and flowering, so any expert Barrie> advice would be greatly appreciated. Barrie> Barrie> Barrie Russell Barrie> [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Superthrive
Superthrive has NAA, which is an Auxin hormone. Superthrive has B-1, which is supposedly for roots (voodoo?) Superthrive might also have seaweed extract. Steve Topletz Sheldon> Does anyone actually know what Superthrive is or does? Sheldon> ___ Sheldon> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Sheldon> orchids@orchidguide.com Sheldon> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re[2]: [OGD] Superthrive
Regarding what is happening in the mix: The sugar is a primary energy source for plants. They work to create sugars, so give it to them free. Alcohol is a secondary energy source for plants, they can convert alcohol to sugars I believe, and then sugar to ATP. The epsom salt is to increase uptake of the plant by making the solution electrolytic, and to add the essential nutrient elements of epsom salt. The superthrive is obvious, as it is an auxin and stimulator. dish soap is to kill minor bacteria, and turn the solution into a surfactant. cold water because warm water shocks roots. High humidity is always a plus. The higher the better. However, for stimulating root growth, it may be a better idea to put the plant into a bag with spongerock, because with sphagnum the roots don't have to grow very much to find the amount of water they need. Gotta run to the airport, don't want to miss my flight, Steve T Thomas> Good Question! Thomas> From their label, Superthrive is a mix vitamin B-1 (a common vitamin Thomas> thiamin essential to the metabolism of carbohydrates), naphthalene Thomas> acetic acid (a synthetic auxin found in rooting compound), and some Thomas> fertilizer. I have never seen a scientific study of the exact Thomas> properties of Superthrive, but it is shown to stimulate the Thomas> metabolism and growth of plants. When you have a plant under stress Thomas> it helps the plant in many cases. Thomas> I use a solution similar to Steve Topletz's for soaking plants Thomas> showing stress, and then I put them in a high humidity environment. Thomas> Plants I soak with a solution containing Superthrive or a B-complex Thomas> vitamin do better than those with out. What is happening I do not Thomas> know, I am working off a recipe given to me in the 1970's, it works Thomas> so I use it and pass it on to others. Thomas> This would make a great special topic or senior project for someone. Thomas> At 2:31 PM -0500 2/18/05, Sheldon wrote: >>Does anyone actually know what Superthrive is or does? >> >>___ >>the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) >>orchids@orchidguide.com >>http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] warm water shocks roots ?
I've got some scientific data on this coming. What I consider warm is around the temperature of our hands (95-100'F). Realize that anything colder than that seems cool to us. However, what temperature do you grow your plant? Probably not at 98.6'F. For most of us that would shock our plants or for many it would kill them. What then, makes you think that liquids higher than their growth temps would be any different? The lesson here is to not put your orchids into any water that is warmer than what they would grow in. I don't think 80'F water is just too warm, but I can imagine there are many plants that find it uncomfortable. Regarding low temps, water no colder than 45'F, after that plant tissues generally stop growing. There are exceptions for every case, as a grower apply this info as you see fit. Steve Topletz viateur> Steve [Topletz] wrote : "cold water because warm water shocksroots." viateur> I wonder how warm and how cold. viateur> Do you consider that cold water is better than lukewarm water ? viateur> Was you assertion based on experiment or you assume that cold viateur> water isbetter than warmer water ? viateur> viateur> Regards, viateur> Viateur ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Cattleya/Laelia mericloning, where ?
I can do that. info> Hello all, info> Which laboratories offer Cattleya/Laelia mericloning in smaller quantities (100 info> - 200 maximum, not thousands and thousands) in the US ? info> kind regards, info> Kenneth. info> ___ info> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) info> orchids@orchidguide.com info> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] fire-grown orchids, in Australia.
Someone tell me about these plants that are adapted to fire, and how burning them promotes population of the rare orchid species. Just curious. ST viateur> FYI : viateur> "Ecological burns are carried out to protect and promote populations of viateur> threatened species ... viateur> such as ... some rare species of orchid. These species are adapted to and viateur> respond to fire." viateur> source : viateur> http://bombala.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=news&subclass=local&category=general%20news&story_id=375346&y=2005&m=3 viateur> *** viateur> Regards, viateur> Viateur viateur> ___ viateur> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) viateur> orchids@orchidguide.com viateur> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
RE: [OGD] Question about stomata
This is faulty information. Orchids can open and close stomata -Original Message- From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 3/3/05 12:33:44 PM To: "orchids@orchidguide.com" Subject: [OGD] Question about stomata I recently purchased Lance Birk's new Paphiopedilum Grower's Manual. In his discussion about watering and watering technique he makes the statement that Orchids have "fixed stomata", and they remain open all the time regardless of environmental conditions. Never having heard this before, I am curious as to its veracity. Does anyone in the group have knowledge about this? I know that some orchids are CAM plants, and thought one of the reasons for practicing this kind of carbon fixing was to keep stomata closed during the day and thus control water loss. Thanks Dennis Westler ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re[2]: [OGD] Question about stomata
Paphiopedilum are C3 plants, and they can certainly open and close their stomata, I have scientific journals to back this up. All plants can have their stomata open, but there are plants that can become physiologically confused, and forget how to close them. This is what often happens to deflasked plants trying to acclimatize. I do not believe there are any plant types that cannot naturally close their stomates unless there is some irregularity. There would be no reason to have stomates if they could not regulate them. Being that there is an exception to every rule, there might be some. However being that we have not heard of it, it is either amazingly rare or does not exist. I challenge everyone to investigate this myth. I will have a definite answer to this question within a week. Steve Toplez Nascent Orchids Karen> I believe there are orchid of all types , some open and close the Karen> stomata, while others remain open (aint this type called C3 and Karen> considered the more primitive form?). It all depends on the habitat Karen> the orchid species evolved for, general rule as I remember it is that Karen> thick leaved types are more like to have evolved into CAM type of Karen> plants. Karen> Rgrds/ Karen >> This is faulty information. Orchids can open and close stomata Karen> ___ Karen> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Karen> orchids@orchidguide.com Karen> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Fireburn
Not to mention the trees explode because of the flammable eucalyptus oils in them. Phil> Many Australian plants actually need fire to allow the seeds to germinate Phil> (very hard coat) and people pop seeds into the oven, or nick the side of Phil> seeds with a knife, before planting. Some native terrestrials are hard to Phil> flower, even in nature, and the smoke from a fire (contains ethylene?) Phil> seems to promote flowering. The extra nutrients and space must be a factor Phil> for many as well. Phil> Australian Eucalypt forests are adapted and form a fire climax forest. Phil> This makes the planting of such forests rather dangerous in many places, Phil> such as California. They are genetically programmed to go up in smoke Phil> every 12-20 years. Phil> Phil Phil> ### Phil> Dr Phil Diamond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phil> Department of Mathematics, University of Queensland, Brisbane,AUSTRALIA 4072. Phil> Tel +61 7 3365 3253 Fax +61 7 3365 1477 Phil> ___ Phil> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Phil> orchids@orchidguide.com Phil> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Stomata
Tell me more. Where does this info come from? Greggy6392> There are forms of stomata found in orchids which, like Greggy6392> hydathodes, cannot close fully as the guard cells become Greggy6392> cuticularized. Greggy6392> Greggy6392> A. Gregg ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Subject: Re: OGD Vol 7, Issue 105 - Paphiopedilum & stomata
I'm looking for those texts from Annals of Botany, they are from 1980, vol 46, p195+ I think. I can't seem to find any of them online. Viature, you seem to have access to all the resources, do you know where I can find this? Steve Stephen> Paphiopedilum are C3 plants, and they can certainly open and Stephen> close their stomata. Dr. Joseph Arditti has scientific journals to back this up. Stephen> There was a paper on paphs from Dr. Arditti's laboratory some 20 years ago Stephen> and another one other before that. The journals are Annals of Botany and Stephen> The New Phytologist. Stephen> ___ Stephen> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) Stephen> orchids@orchidguide.com Stephen> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re: OD Vol 7, Issue 110 - OK - I'll bite What does this all mean to how I grow them
The C numbers refer to the metabolism of the plant, which determines how fast they grow. When stomata are open, it allows the roots to draw up water and nutrients through a water potential vacuum. We now have the Annals of Botany paper on fixed stomata, thanks to Paige Harper. There is is some interesting and contradictory data in the paper and we'll have to pour through it and compare data. We'll have something for you all shortly. Steve Topletz leo> C!, C2, C3, or C4 - stomata that open or close - what the heck?, Does any leo> of this mean anything about how we actually go about growing these things? leo> I feel like you guys are arguing about the number of Angels dancing on the leo> head of a pin. Does any of this mean anything, or is it simply esoteric leo> gobble-dee-gook. leo> Leo leo> ___ leo> the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) leo> orchids@orchidguide.com leo> http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Re: Stomata
I have evaluated the Annals of Botany paper back from 1980... Just as suspected, it is in my unscientific opinion, total crap. This was verified when I threw a P. sanderianum leaf section under slide and found thousands upon thousands of stomates in a small section of leaf, and they were indeed closed. I have a microscope camera with which i will take pictures and make them available online if anyone cares. Steve Topletz ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Re: Dr. C. Bracker, March 13
I turn around and the good doctor kicks my teeth in. May I chime in? Dr. Bracker, I understand you must assert your scienctific mastery here, but I'm not the amazing fool you think I am. I can only assume this was your hypothesis, based on your reply in addition to your lack of data regarding my protocol. So, I am here to fill in your blanks regarding my amateur-hour findings. 1. Stomates is just fine: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=stomates 2. The procedure of getting the leaf section was as such: A) Picked up a living adult sanderianum plant from my greenhouse B) Used an unclean pair of scissors to cut off a leaf C) Used an unclean scalpel to cut a cm2 sample from between margin and rib D) Instantly and carefully put it under a glass slide, with no water or oil in order to keep from disturbing the cells. Under a glass slide because I do not have a nice dissecting stereo microscope yet. E) I did not remove any cuticle or cause any mechanical damage to the section. Only less than a minute for the whole leaf to react. F) Viewed it under slide at about 200x, using a gimpy microscope G) The light source of the microscope was natural light, supplementing the low light from a 2.5v/.3a bulb, which produced virtually no appreciable heat that i could sense with my fingers. H) I repeated the above three times, from the same leaf. I) I then laughed to myself, called up the trained scientist I employ, explained the above to him, poured a glass of an okay bordeaux, then posted to OGD. 3. It isn't a study. I need a better microscope, materials, lab, and protocol for that (read: send it to my scientist.) 4. My unsceintific opinion that the paper was crap, is deduced from other scientific papers (not my own, har) in direct contradiction (and more recently published,) then verified by my own unscientific observations. 5. Be careful in trusting scientific journals. A fellow student was doing a PhD and used one paper as reference, and after running her own series of comprehensive test, discovered that a resource she had in fact completely fabricated their data likely to mislead the competing producers of the ornamental plants. Surprising, to say the least, especially to the professors who verified her works. 6. If you were a stomate subjected to this kind of treatment, you probably wouldn't know you were in trouble until i tossed you to my teething kitten. As for your comment that non-scientists need to stay out of science, I admire it for how Guido Braem it sounds, however it doesn't take a biochem degree to use a little common sense and a compound microscope. I didn't spell/nazi/grammar check this because I would need an english degree, Steve Topletz > Orchid friends: > > The test of stomatal opening/closing reported in the posting by Steve > Topletz is, I am sorry to say, meaningless (OGD Vol. 7, Issue 115, #5). A > stoma (stoma [Greek origin] is the singular term; stomata is the plural, NOT > stomates) consists of two living guard cells of the leaf epidermis. They > respond to certain environmental changes and change their shape which causes > them to separate from each other in the midregion, thus creating a gap or > hole through which water vapor and gases are exchanged between the > intercellular spaces within the leaf and the external environment. The > operative concept here is living cells. > > The procedure used by Mr. Topletz (who admittedly is not a scientist) > imposed the following on his samples of P. sanderianum (Latinized binomials > should be italicized Steve): A) ³leaf section² which meant that he used a > blade to cut the leaf thin enough to be able to view it with a microscope. > B) He ³threw² it ³under slide² is not really clear. I presume he means he > carefully placed it under a cover slip on a microscope slide. C) Implied > but not stated was, ³subjected to very high light conditions and possible > change in temperature² as a consequence of illumination for observation > under the microscope. > > Now, for ³A² above, he severely mechanically damaged cells of the leaf. It > is difficult to say which ones and how badly, but living cells do respond to > being cut, even if it is their neighbors that are decapitated or cut open. > The bottom line is that the tissue piece was seriously stressed by the > method of specimen preparation. > > Next is ³B² above. By placing the small piece of leaf (emphasis on piece) > on a slide under a glass cover slip, no doubt enclosed in a liquid water > environment, the leaf epidermis is not in the kind of environment that is > normal and customary for its typical day-night functioning. The gas mixture > of air (nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, water vapor, etc.) was replaced by > liquid water (I assume, or else he did not describe his methods in
Re: [OGD] Steve Topletz Martch 13 Response
Dr. Bracker,
I was reading your defense to my reply, and I thought I might give us all a
chuckle. Since you weren't aware, my use of Nazi is as an english-language
Nazi. I hope everyone else on the list got it. Further, since you started
telling me I should proofread and whatnot, I decided you probably knew what you
were talking about so I threw this at my girlfriend, an English major, while I
watch Seinfeld. How do the maxims go? Better to be thought a fool than open
your mouth and remove all doubt, look before you leap, etc. etc. whatever fits.
Regardless, her thought about it are as such:
The first response is too verbose; I don't know who would want to read it.
The second response contains the following obvious errors:
1) "March" is misspelled in the subject line.
2) Only "dear" and "orchid" in the greeting should be capitalized.
3) There is a superfluous comma after the word "is" in the first sentence of
the second paragraph. That said, the word "that" should be inserted where the
comma presently stands.
4) "A good lesson for him" is not a complete thought and should not be treated
as a complete sentence. It should be attached to the previous sentence by a
colon (this would be the easiest way to repair the sentence, but rewording the
entire thought would be recommended in order to avoid using complicated
punctuation such as the colon).
5) After the semicolon in the last sentence of the second paragraph, the word
"yes" should not be capitalized.
6) In the final paragraph, an em-dash should not be used between "Nazi" and "I"
because it is separating a dependent clause and an independent clause,
respectively; a comma would have been more appropriate.
I will have my degree in English (with a focus in technical writing) by the end
of this year. Nonetheless, I suppose I am too inferior to even begin to tackle
your writing. Perhaps before suggesting proofreading to anyone else, you
should consider some proofreading of your own; maybe you can ask the English
department at Purdue to assist you. The English department might even be able
to define "grammar Nazi" for you.
Regards,
Kristin Aubel
PS - I do applaud you for your comic genius; your greeting ("Dear Orchid
friends," with an emphasis on the word "friends") in contrast to your pompous
tone makes for great irony!
Feel free to forward this to the Purdue English Dept. for peer review.
Neither I nor Kristin have proofread this,
Steve Topletz
___
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Re: [OGD] Counting stomata
This sounds great and all, but once again it isn't a study. Now, if there is some demand for this data, I'll take up a collection for materials, and we'll do it. However, I don't think this is info is going to be nearly as valuable as the ammoniacal fertilizer query. Maybe we can do both, we'll see. Steve T On March 14, 2005, Peter O'Byrne wrote: > Dr. Charles Bracker criticised Steve Topletz's methodology during his > rough and ready count of the stomata on a Paphiopedilum leaf. I would > agree with Dr. Bracker that the method used was crude, but I suspect > it is not necessarily as ineffective as Dr. Bracker suggested. > Scientifically, the main weaknesses in Steve's method were that only > one leaf was tested (3 times), and there was no attempt at controlling > a number of variables that Dr Bracker quite rightly drew attention to. > > May I suggest that Steve repeats his experiment, using a different > plant (or at least, a different leaf) and the following rough and > ready method that should give good results, provide a permanent of > evidence, and also avoid a number of the pitfalls Dr Bracker > mentioned. It involves making a cast of the leaf surface. > > 1) While the leaf is still attached to the plant, apply a thin layer > of instant-setting resin (or similar) to the surface under > investigation. At school the students use red nail varnish ... the > presence of a colour helps when viewing. I use Windsor & Newton > water-colour fixative (since I have cans of it lying around the house) > but even a thin layer of cheap aerosol spray paint will work. > > 2) Cut away the painted part of the leaf, carefully peel the cuticle > away from the resin, and view the cast under the microscope. > > When lit from underneath the cast, open stomata show up instantly as > spots of light. When lit from the side, the guard cells (either open > or closed) are easily viewable. > > Peter O'Byrne > Singapore > > ___ > the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) > orchids@orchidguide.com > http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] topletz
Being Jewish, living in Texas, and having relatives haunted by the memory of the nazional socialistischen army, I think I may take some liberties here. Not to mention, to those of you over age 30, "grammar-nazi" is now a very common colloquialism in the States. BTW, I don't think the Germans like being reminded of it either, Steve Topletz On March 14, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > being english,living in england,and been through the war theres only one > thing nazi conjures > up and we dont like being reminded even jovialy,thank you > > > ___ > the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) > orchids@orchidguide.com > http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] topletz
Being Jewish, living in Texas, and having relatives haunted by the memory of the nazional socialistischen army, I think I may take some liberties here. Not to mention, to those of you over age 30, "grammar-nazi" is now a very common colloquialism in the States. BTW, I don't think the Germans like being reminded of it either, Steve Topletz On March 14, 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > being english,living in england,and been through the war theres only one > thing nazi conjures > up and we dont like being reminded even jovialy,thank you > > > ___ > the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) > orchids@orchidguide.com > http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Congrats to singapore!
See you there in 2011. ST ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Fraud at the WOC in Dijon.
I would like a greater background on who these people are. To me, a blissfully ignorant outsider of the AOS/WOC, I can not put any info with these names other than a dull dislike of them. Andy, we know you have lots of info. Would you please give these people a nice shove into the lime light? Steve Topletz On March 15, 2005, Andy Easton wrote: > Are you ready for this? > > At Dijon last Saturday, March 12th the WOC Site Selection Committee met and > heard proposals from three potential host countries for the 2011 WOC. The > countries were Taiwan, South Africa (Cape Town) and Singapore. At the > conclusion of the presentations they voted 11-5 to award the Conference to > South Africa. > > A hastily convened meeting of the WOC Trustees then, in secret session, and > in spite of the assurances of the Executive Director of the AOS that they > have no vote on selecting a site, gave the 2011 WOC to Singapore. One member > of the WOC Trustees, Dr. Henry Oakeley, showing his innate integrity, > resigned from the WOC Trust immediately. I have a question for Joyce > Stewart, Pete Furniss and Donna Craig. What the hell are you doing and who, > (RHS, AOS or?) gave you the authority to break the rules? > > Forget about the apologist O'Byrne, this is why the orchid world has lost > respect for the WOC concept and those who administer it. > > Andy Easton > > > > > > > > ___ > the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) > orchids@orchidguide.com > http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
Re: [OGD] Fraud Part II
Here is just some info regarding the site selection committee. So if the 11-5 vote, consisting of the 16 members did not result anywhere close to a tie, why did the trustees derail the selection? Obviously there must have been some amazingly overwhelming reason for them to meet in secret, and strongarm the election. Does that mean all the members actually are just there for show, and it is only 4 people who make the decision? What has Dr. Oakeley had to say about all of this? What do the rest of the selection committee members have to say? http://www.woctrust.com/SSC-WOC2011.html The WOC Trustees have invited 16 respected orchid enthusiasts, who represent orchid growers and orchid societies around the world, to form the Site Selection Committee for the 20th WOC to be held in 2011. The Committee will meet in Dijon, France, at 11.00 a.m. on Monday 14th March 2005 to review applications from Taipei (Taiwan), Cape Town (South Africa) and Singapore. In addition to the information contained in a detailed Application Form already submitted to the Trust, the presenters will emphasise how they would organise the various facets of the WOC that are of particular interest to Registrants, including the Conference, Show, Judging and Social Events, if successful in their bid. Other details of the criteria that will be sought by the Committee and the Trust are published in the Guidelines. Each organisation will be allotted 20 minutes for their presentation and up to a further 20 minutes for questions and answers if required. These presentations will be followed by a closed session for the Committee's discussion, after which a vote will be taken by secret ballot. The Trustees will not take part in the ballot unless there is a tie. The result of the Committee's choice of venue for 2011 will be announced at the Closing Ceremony of the 18th WOC on Monday afternoon. Members of the Site Selection Committee 2005 will be - Chairman Donna Craig (USA) (Trustee) Members Gabriel Cayrol (New Caledonia) Ian Chalmers (Australia) Phillip Cribb (UK) Vinciane Dumont (France) Munekazu Ejiri (Japan) Ingeborg Gonella (Kenya) Eric Hagsater (Mexico) Cordelia Head (USA) Johan Hermans (UK) Alex Hirtz (Ecuador) Rudolf Jenny (Switzerland) Harold Koopowitz (USA) Stephen Monkhouse (Bali) Sandra Altenburg Odebrecht (Brazil) Michael Ooi (Malaysia) Joy Wray (New Zealand)) Trustees in attendance Peter Furniss (USA) Henry Oakeley (UK) Joyce Stewart (UK) ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Re: Invigoration
Frikkie, I do not have a book, but I do have some good suggestions. Here in the US, we have a few tactics to try to wake up orchid societies, and we are happily awaiting the results: 1. Blatant corruption of judges and officials. Have to keep up with the Smithes, you know. 2. Complete financial incompetence. If it hasn't been looted, it ain't broke! 3. Injecting bureaucracy. I'll be damned if the master's tools can unmake the master's house. 4. Destroy your website, then put a slow and impotent gimp in its place. Call it an upgrade, you'll be a hero! 5. Political graft. There no U in honesty, let the motha' burn. 6. Glad-handing imperialist trade agreements which eradicate biodiversity under the guise of conservation. 7. Pledging your sovereignty and cognitive approval to the RHS. 8. Never hold yourself accountable. Shift blame, disregard your own bylaws/charter/mission statement/etc as is convenient. (see #5) 9. Do not, under any circumstance, listen to your members or act on behalf of their wishes. So far, here in America, we have tried all these things. We haven't seen any reaction so far, but we are hopeful to see a twitch and twitter. For our next reaction experiment, we are considering endorsement of legislation to make all artificial propagation of species illegal, unnatural, immoral, and unethical. Many of our proponents have suggested this, but I personally feel this would only result in a twitch, and then back righteous acceptance and slumber. Lie, Cheat, and Steal! Steve Topletz On March 16, 2005, Frikkie Marais wrote: > Hi > > Does anyone know about an article/book or have usable information on how to > invigorate an orchid society which have become stagnant, old and > non-responsive? > > I think this is a huge problem all over the world and our committee would > like to start with an endeavour to keep our society growing in numbers and > have its members participate in as many activities as possible. > > Hope to get some good feedback. > > Regards > > Frikkie > > ___ > the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) > orchids@orchidguide.com > http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Fighting CITES and the AOS
The AOS would NOT lose their non-profit status, as long as they adhere to IRS 501(C)(3) which is regarding non-profits, and what they may do: 3. The organization may not make lobbying a substantial part of its activity 4. The organization may not participate or intervene in any political campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office Regarding 4, no problem. Regarding 3, according to judicial rulings, substantial activity would be greater than 5% of total activities. So, what exactly is 5% of yearly AOS income? $23,000. So up to $23k could be used, every year, to fight the greatest threat to orchids. Hard to believe that such a huge organization could have missed this fact for the last 80+ years and I can deduce it within minutes. I'm sure that the AOS has turned a blind eye to the largest problem facing orchids simply because they were ignorant and scared for the last century. Well, now that we have brought this thankful information to light, I'm sure we'll see the immediate and swift reversal by the AOS! Right? Or is their non-involvement for another reason? Steve IrisCohen> I don't know about the rest of the world, but in this IrisCohen> country, the AOS would lose their non-profit status from politicking, IrisCohen> so they tiptoe around the issue. IrisCohen> Iris IrisCohen> A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense. - Woody Allen ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
