date:20021107




I knew someone in Melbourne who called them 
Obstinatricians! Well, more than one.
aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Jenny 
Balnaves 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC
Thank you for your reply Lynne. Unfortunately, the model of care 
where I practice is 95% medical, so consequently, options are rather 
limited. All obstetricians here would veto the choice of VBAC...litigation 
being foremost in their minds. One GP incorporates Team Midwifery into his 
practice, but even there we are still "under his banner" so to 
speak.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)




Brilliant! Congratulations! Mazal Tov! Oh Happy Day! and 
Well Done!
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Jaqueline 
Marwick 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:53 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)

BIG BUNDLE OF 
JOY 
:))

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.

so, did he become a fisherman, my daughter Rosie wants to 
know! (gorgeous story)
aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Julie Garratt 
To: ozmid 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:22 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.

  - Original Message -
  From: 
  Julie Garratt
  Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 5:19 
  PM
  To: BMid
  Subject: Born in the sea.

  Hi all,
   I think with all this cascade of 
  intervention stuff happening. I would like to tell you very quickly about the 
  birth of my dear friend. He is from PNG and lived by the water in a very hot 
  climate. Afterhis motherhad senther husband to get her 
  sister to help and support her while she gave birth.She decided that she 
  would go and sit on the beachwhere it was cool and the water would ease 
  her pain. It was apparently a long way to the next village and when the father 
  and the sister had returned to find that she wasn't labouring in their house 
  as expected the sister was drawn by some unknown force down to the beach. The 
  mother turned around andacknowledged the arrival of her sister just as a 
  glistening wet babydropped onto the sand. The now aunty and mother were 
  laughing as they washed the sand from him in the sea water because they 
  thought that this meant he was going to be a fisherman and not a farmer like 
  his father. 
  I was charmed by this birth story and I'm so glad heshared it 
  with me. Its funny though because my friend doesn't seem to think its that 
  special, he did say that as far as he knows babies aren't usually born in the 
  ocean in his village. He also said that there were no midwives just mothers, 
  friends and sisters to support women to give birth. He also said that it was 
  definitely women's business then in the next breath he told me how much he 
  enjoyed watching all of his babies being born here in Australia. Its a funny 
  world!

  Julie'',

  Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Re: [ozmidwifery] training

2002-11-07 Thread ec newnham




Hi Liz, this is a bit 
belated I know, but for my mid. course, we have to complete learning objectives 
(lots) and different ones for each semester, e.g. "undertake intrapartum 
assessment", "assess newborn at birth", "observe, assist and conduct appropriate 
midwifery care during the three stages of normal labour" etc. We have to 
document how we achieved these and relate each one to the comptencies. One of 
our final assignments is to demonstrate by exemplars taken from our clinical 
practice how we have achieved each competency. Hope this helps. 
Love, 
Liz.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)

2002-11-07 Thread ec newnham




CONGRATULATIONS 
JACKIE
Joy to you, your babies and 
partner. It is not easy to defy the medical system. Power to you 
sister!
Love, 
Liz.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact




Thank you, Rhonda, I'll pass this on. Pig semen? I'll bet if women knew 
what's in it, they'd be jumping up and down about it instead of using it! (Now 
there's an idea for induction...sorry, sometimes humour's a good thing).
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Rhonda 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact


  
  

  I suggest tjhat you allow her to be angry and to vent her pain and 
  her anger towards those who caused it. Support her in 
  complaining to the hospital and insisting upon answers as lame as they may 
  be. If she were to ask why was the induction needed? Was the 
  baby in distress (at the time of the first insertion of gel - a horrible 
  substance called prostin made from Pig seamen.
  Lovely!) Was her placenta failing? What was the indication that 
  at 10 days over she needed to be induced anyway?
  Then once they have wormed out of that she should ask for 
  explanations as to why all of the intervention and what caused it and why 
  was it all needed.
  
  Give her lots of love and support to do this as nothing will change 
  and it will keep happening unless women are encouraged to complain and 
  conplain and complain! 
  Even if she personally gets little satisfaction fron the complaint it 
  is just one more brick to add - eventually we will built a wall to protect 
  women from this - brick by brick.
  
  You need to complain first to the registra at the hospital but at the 
  same time go directly to the medical practitioners board and make sure it 
  outlines that the initial induction was not called for and the following 
  intervention could have been avoided. Also any poor bedside manner 
  should be outlines clearly if they were rude to her which it seems they 
  were not supportive and gentle from your description.
  
  I wish her love and luck in her recovery - if she needs someone to 
  talk to you are welcome to give her my email. 
  
  The problem is this happens every day and it is not looked at as 
  torture or as something that needs to be changed. The only way it 
  will be seen as a problem is if they are inundated with complaints about 
  this sort of thing.
  
  Luv
  Rhonda.
  
  

  


  
  
   IncrediMail - 
Email has finally evolved - Click 
Here

Re: [ozmidwifery] registration




Marilyn, Are you also a nurse? Because 
when I told the Vic Nurses Board that I only wanted to register as a midwife, 
they told me that it was not possible.
I asked about the new midwives - those graduates 
without nursing- I was told they'd think of that then.
Liz Mc

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Aviva 
  Sheb'a 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:17 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  registration
  
  Hearty, hearty CONGRATULATIONS, Marilyn!!! Well 
  done! May you assist women and babies -- and fathers --in beautiful 
  births for many years to come!
  Love,
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Marilyn 
  Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:42 AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration
  It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are 
  caseload - laterI hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at the 
  moment is:OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am registered to 
  practise as anon-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, Australia as of 
  November 7th, 2002.You can see this for yourself by going 
  to.www.qnc.qld.gov.au

Re: [ozmidwifery] training




Kathleen,

You're right. That is one problem with midwives and 
midwifery - the lack of cohesion.
Liz Mc

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kathleen Fahy 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:53 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 
  "training"
  
  Dear All,
  
  It is a real disappointment to me that the national ACMI competencies 
  have not been adopted by NSW nurses registration board. It deminishes 
  midwifery as a profession when there is this division.
  
  Kathleen Fahy
  
  --Kathleen 
  FahyProfessor of MidwiferyHead of School of Nursing and 
  MidwiferyFaculty of HealthThe University of NewcastleUniversity 
  Drive,Callaghan, 2308
  
  Ph 02 49215966
  
  Fax 02 49216981 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/07/02 
  03:47pm 
  
  Dear 
  Liz
  The ACMI competency 
  standards have not been adopted by all registering authorities. For example 
  the Nurses Registration Board of NSW has a set of seven competencies for 
  midwives which bear little resemblance to the ACMI competencies. They 
  can be access at www.nursesreg.nsw.gov.au.
  Part of my role is to 
  assess overseas qualified midwives seeking authorisation to practice 
  midwifery. Happy to talk to you about that at anytime
  Janet
  
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2002 4:08 
  PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  "training"
  
  In a message dated 5/11/02 3:15:31 
  PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  Dear midwife 
  students.I 
  need to review a training program/strategy.Can 
  anyone send me something, with competencies/objectives??Many 
  thanksLiz 
  McAlpine
  Hi 
  Liztry the ACMI webite at www.acmi.org.au...under the link of 
  profssional documents you will find the ACMI Competency Standards for Midwives 
  (2002). These standards are the minimum 'benchmarks' for midwifery 
  practice.Cheers Tina 
P.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact

2002-11-07 Thread Julie Garratt

What if you were Jewish or Muslim? Or anyone else that doesn't like the whole idea generally? How did you find out it was made from Pig semen anyway? Just curious, Julie.- Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 9:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Thank you, Rhonda, I'll pass this on. Pig semen? I'll bet if women knew what's in it, they'd be jumping up and down about it instead of using it! (Now there's an idea for induction...sorry, sometimes humour's a good thing). Aviva - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact I suggest tjhat you allow her to be angry and to vent her pain and her anger towards those who caused it. Support her in complaining to the hospital and insisting upon answers as lame as they may be. If she were to ask why was the induction needed? Was the baby in distress (at the time of the first insertion of gel - a horrible substance called prostin made from Pig seamen. Lovely!) Was her placenta failing? What was the indication that at 10 days over she needed to be induced anyway? Then once they have wormed out of that she should ask for explanations as to why all of the intervention and what caused it and why was it all needed. Give her lots of love and support to do this as nothing will change and it will keep happening unless women are encouraged to complain and conplain and complain! Even if she personally gets little satisfaction fron the complaint it is just one more brick to add - eventually we will built a wall to protect women from this - brick by brick. You need to complain first to the registra at the hospital but at the same time go directly to the medical practitioners board and make sure it outlines that the initial induction was not called for and the following intervention could have been avoided. Also any poor bedside manner should be outlines clearly if they were rude to her which it seems they were not supportive and gentle from your description. I wish her love and luck in her recovery - if she needs someone to talk to you are welcome to give her my email. The problem is this happens every day and it is not looked at as torture or as something that needs to be changed. The only way it will be seen as a problem is if they are inundated with complaints about this sort of thing. Luv Rhonda. IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)

Well done to Jacqui!!
- Original Message -
From: Margie Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)

Jaqqueline,

thanks for posting your birth story.  It's lovely and shows such a lot of
learning and gained strength of your own confictions since you first queried
the advice you were getting. You're an inspiration to all women wondering
( doubting) the path they are on and altering course. Enjoy your babies and
family.

Margie

At Thu, 7 Nov 2002 14:23:33 -,
Jaqueline Marwick ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 BIG BUNDLE OF JOY   :))

 Hi everyone!

 It's me, your Brazilian silent member again.

 Most of you won't remember me, but I'd like to sincerely thank all
 of you
 who have given me a few words of encouragement since I was 39
 weeks pregnant
 and being pressured by medical staff to be induced.

 This is a great mailing list and reading it has been most edifying,
 challenging and inspirational to me.

 Thanks to Sally Westbury, Mary Murphy, Debby_M, Andrea Robertson,
 Vicki and
 especially Lois Wattis with whom I met in person a few times.

 Above all I thank my own mother who gave birth to 5 children
 naturally and
 has counseled me to let my body do its own performance for my sake
 and the
 sake of  baby Susanna Joy.

 My doctor is known as the baby doctor in the area, assisting over
 40 births
 per month and all labeled as normal deliveries.

 I spent my whole pregnancy telling him how I wanted to have a
 natural birth
 this time (I was induced with my previous baby and didn't have
 such a good
 experience), and how I wanted dim lights, no drugs, etc..  I had
 typed my
 birth plan very clearly and etc.

 When it came to my 39 weeks he suddenly changed his discourse and
 told me I
 needed to be induced because my baby was too big. Midwives and
 RNs
 telling me that my placenta would get too mature, and/or my
 amniotic fluid
 would not be enough to feed my baby, etc etc etc.

 They wanted to have a ctg trace every so often and one nurse even
 wanted to
 use some sort of vibrator on my belly to make my baby jump.  Oh
 the horror I
 had to go through and had to be even rude or else they would have
 their way.

 The doctor who is so hard to catch (yes, it seems doctors have a
 very
 precious time and clients' time is usually not counted as
 valuable, not
 worth even peanuts) was suddenly ringing my house and making
 bookings with
 the hospital for my induction.

 I kept saying NO and canceling these bookings and with the support
 of my
 husband we waited until my darling baby girl decided it was her
 time.

 It was 10 days later, when I had just the one strong contraction
 and off we
 went to the hospital arriving there at 2:30 am to find out I was
 already
 fully dilated.

 My membranes had not ruptured as yet, and the contractions were
 then quite
 strong. I asked to be on my knees as I found that to be the most
 comfortable
 position at the time.

 As if things were not going fast enough, this midwife kept asking
 me to let
 her rupture my membranes as it would get things going. I would
 not give
 in; of course, it was only a matter of her waiting a little bit.

 My membranes ruptured naturally at 3:20 am and my darling baby
 Susanna Joy
 was born at 3:40 am. All in all, it took us only 1 hour and 10
 minutes from
 the time we arrived in the hospital.

 As soon as I arrived I asked them to ring the doctor, but they
 rang much
 later, he arrived just after the birth, which was ok, as I was
 feeling he
 had not much to do apart from giving me a few stitches on my
 perineum area.

 Susanna was born spontaneously weighing 4.604 kilos (or around
 10.2 pounds
 in the old money), she was born very beautifully, and ready to
 breastfeed
 and even bite LOL!

 She is now 3 and a half weeks old.

 I haven't written before as I now have my hands pretty full, we
 also have
 another baby (Daniel) who is just 18 months old older than Susanna.

 Physically I am a wreck, as I still haven't managed to get a
 routine with
 sleep etc, but I am so happy that my baby girl had her way and
 came to this
 world so well!

 We are a very happy family here in WA!

 And I am so glad that I could finally have the chance of giving
 birth
 naturally!

 Now I need to join the TUT club (Two Under Two)  _  double the
 work and
 double the blessings!
 Love,
 Jackieurally!

 Now I need to join the TUT club (Two Under Two)  _  double the
 work and
 double the blessings!
 Love,
 Jackie

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

I went to visit Leanne in my past life as 'the travelling midwife'
wonderful work going on! 
Hi Leanne and glad to 'see'you here! Vicki

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of leanne wynne
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

Hi All,
I run a Maternity and Women's Health Service within an Aboriginal
Community 
Controlled Health Service in rural Victoria. I have a terrific manager
who 
allows me to work autonomously so long as I keep him informed. An
Aboriginal 
Maternal Health worker and I work as a team and we provide 24hour/day on

call for those in labour, (or any other crisis) antenatal care, either
in 
the client's own home or in the Health Service, labour support at home 
and/or in the local hospital (the local midwives are wonderfully
supportive 
of our service) and postnatal care. We work whatever hours our women
need 
us. We dont get paid for 'on-call' or 'overtime' but are able to take 
'time-off-in-lieu' when things are quiet.
In my opinion if midwives aim to provide continuity of care then 8 hour 
shifts are not an option.
Leanne.

From: Debby M [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:06:24 +

_
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)

2002-11-07 Thread Vance Edwina











WELL DONE



Cheers, Edwina J



-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Jaqueline Marwick
Sent: Friday, 8 November 2002
12:54 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy
arrived :)



BIG BUNDLE OF JOY :))

Hi everyone!

Its me, your Brazilian silent
member again 

Most of you wont remember me,
but Id like to sincerely thank all of you who have given me a few words
of encouragement since I was 39 weeks pregnant and being pressured by medical
staff to be induced.

This is a great mailing list and
reading it has been most edifying, challenging and inspirational to me.

Thanks to Sally Westbury, Mary
Murphy, Debby_M, Andrea Robertson, Vicki and especially Lois Wattis with whom I
met in person a few times.

Above all I thank my own mother who
gave birth to 5 children naturally and has counseled me to let my body do its
own performance for my sake and the sake of
baby Susanna Joy.

My doctor is known as the baby
doctor in the area, assisting over 40 births per month and all labeled as
normal deliveries.

I spent my whole pregnancy telling
him how I wanted to have a natural birth this time (I was induced with my
previous baby and didnt have such a good experience), and how I wanted
dim lights, no drugs, etc. I had
typed my birth plan very clearly and etc.

When it came to my 39 weeks he
suddenly changed his discourse and told me I needed to be induced
because my baby was too big. Midwives and RNs telling me that my
placenta would get too mature, and/or my amniotic fluid would not be enough to
feed my baby, etc etc etc.

They wanted to have a ctg trace
every so often and one nurse even wanted to use some sort of vibrator on my
belly to make my baby jump Oh the
horror I had to go through and had to be even rude or else they would have
their way.

The doctor who is so hard to catch
(yes, it seems doctors have a very precious time and clients time is
usually not counted as valuable, not worth even peanuts) was suddenly ringing
my house and making bookings with the hospital for my induction.

I kept saying NO and canceling these
bookings and with the support of my husband we waited until my darling baby
girl decided it was her time.

It was 10 days later, when I had
just the one strong contraction and off we went to the hospital arriving there
at 2:30 am to find out I was already fully dilated.

My membranes had not ruptured as
yet, and the contractions were then quite strong. I asked to be on my knees as
I found that to be the most comfortable position at the time.

As if things were not going fast
enough, this midwife kept asking me to let her rupture my membranes as it
would get things going. I would not give in; of course, it was
only a matter of her waiting a little bit.

My membranes ruptured naturally at
3:20 am and my darling baby Susanna Joy was born at 3:40 am. All in all, it
took us only 1 hour and 10 minutes from the time we arrived in the hospital.

As soon as I arrived I asked them to
ring the doctor, but they rang much later, he arrived just after the birth,
which was ok, as I was feeling he had not much to do apart from giving me a few
stitches on my perineum area.

Susanna was born spontaneously
weighing 4.604 kilos (or around 10.2 pounds in the old money), she was born
very beautifully, and ready to breastfeed and even bite LOL!

She is now 3 and a half weeks old.

I havent written before as I
now have my hands pretty full, we also have another baby (Daniel) who is just
18 months old older than Susanna.

Physically I am a wreck, as I still
havent managed to get a routine with sleep etc, but I am so happy that
my baby girl had her way and came to this world so well! 

We are a very happy family here in
WA!

And I am so glad that I could
finally have the chance of giving birth naturally! 



Now I need to join the TUT club (Two Under
Two) _ double the work anddoublethe blessings!





Love,





Jackie

[ozmidwifery] Welcome Susanna Joy :)

Title: Message

Oh Jackie, You wonderful
wonderful woman! Welcome Susanna Joy!

I am crying...tears of joy
for you, and tears of pain for Rhonda, for Jo, for Melissa...for all humanity that has
lost something beautiful... most will feel the ache within but few will be able
to name it...the wounds of birth are hidden deeply...

Btw about that 'routine'
... my kids and I never did get into anything that could be remotely described
as routine... (the eldest is 18, the youngest 3) they and their mother all
survived beautifully in spite or perhaps because of the chaos... take it
easy...and love to you

Vicki

-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jaqueline
MarwickSent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:24 AMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy
arrived :)
BIG BUNDLE OF
JOY :))
Hi
everyone!
Its me, your Brazilian silent member again
Most of
you wont remember me, but Id like to sincerely thank all of you who have
given me a few words of encouragement since I was 39 weeks pregnant and being
pressured by medical staff to be induced.
This is
a great mailing list and reading it has been most edifying, challenging and
inspirational to me.
Thanks
to Sally Westbury, Mary Murphy, Debby_M, Andrea Robertson, Vicki and
especially Lois Wattis with whom I met in person a few times.
Above
all I thank my own mother who gave birth to 5 children naturally and has
counseled me to let my body do its own performance for my sake and the sake
of baby Susanna Joy.
My
doctor is known as the baby doctor in the area, assisting over 40 births per
month and all labeled as normal deliveries.
I spent
my whole pregnancy telling him how I wanted to have a natural birth this time
(I was induced with my previous baby and didnt have such a good experience),
and how I wanted dim lights, no drugs, etc. I had typed my birth plan very clearly
and etc.
When it
came to my 39 weeks he suddenly changed his discourse and told me I needed
to be induced because my baby was too big. Midwives and RNs telling me that
my placenta would get too mature, and/or my amniotic fluid would not be enough
to feed my baby, etc etc etc.
They
wanted to have a ctg trace every so often and one nurse even wanted to use
some sort of vibrator on my belly to make my baby jump Oh the horror I had to go through and
had to be even rude or else they would have their way.
The
doctor who is so hard to catch (yes, it seems doctors have a very precious
time and clients time is usually not counted as valuable, not worth even
peanuts) was suddenly ringing my house and making bookings with the hospital
for my induction.
I kept
saying NO and canceling these bookings and with the support of my husband we
waited until my darling baby girl decided it was her time.
It was
10 days later, when I had just the one strong contraction and off we went to
the hospital arriving there at 2:30 am to find out I was already fully
dilated.
My
membranes had not ruptured as yet, and the contractions were then quite
strong. I asked to be on my knees as I found that to be the most comfortable
position at the time.
As if
things were not going fast enough, this midwife kept asking me to let her
rupture my membranes as it would get things going. I would not give in; of
course, it was only a matter of her waiting a little bit.
My
membranes ruptured naturally at 3:20 am and my darling baby Susanna Joy was
born at 3:40 am. All in all, it took us only 1 hour and 10 minutes from the
time we arrived in the hospital.
As soon
as I arrived I asked them to ring the doctor, but they rang much later, he
arrived just after the birth, which was ok, as I was feeling he had not much
to do apart from giving me a few stitches on my perineum area.
Susanna
was born spontaneously weighing 4.604 kilos (or around 10.2 pounds in the old
money), she was born very beautifully, and ready to breastfeed and even bite
LOL!
She is
now 3 and a half weeks old.
I
havent written before as I now have my hands pretty full, we also have
another baby (Daniel) who is just 18 months old older than Susanna.
Physically I am a wreck, as I still havent managed to get a routine
with sleep etc, but I am so happy that my baby girl had her way and came to
this world so well!

We are
a very happy family here in WA!
And I
am so glad that I could finally have the chance of giving birth naturally!

Now I need to join the TUT club (Two Under Two) _ double the work anddoublethe
blessings!
Love,
Jackie

[ozmidwifery] prostins

2002-11-07 Thread ltully




Is prostins really made from pig semen or is it synthetic? A muslim woman 
asked me this question recently.from Lynda

[ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW:

2002-11-07 Thread pauline

I think I have a sense of humour similar to Rhonda, and and not forgetting
how good for us all it is to laugh!
- Original Message -
From: Irene Van Der Laan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: Fwd: Fw: FW:

 From: Kerrie Connley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Lyn Ilett [EMAIL PROTECTED],Sue Melville
 [EMAIL PROTECTED],Emma Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED],Irene
 Healy [EMAIL PROTECTED],Don Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Fw: FW:
 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 18:42:43 +1100

 - Original Message -
 From: Kerrie Connley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Kerrie Connley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 4:36 PM
 Subject: FW:

Things you always wanted to know!
If you yelled for 8 years, 7 months and 6 days you would have
 produced
enough sound energy to heat one cup of coffee. (Hardly seems worth
 it.)

If you farted consistently for 6 years and 9 months, enough gas is
produced
to create the energy of an atomic bomb. (Now that's more like it!)

The human heart creates enough pressure when it pumps out to the
body
 to
squirt blood 30 feet. (O.M.G.!)

A pig's orgasm lasts 30 minutes. (In my next life, I want to be a
 pig.)

A cockroach will live nine days without its head before it starves
to
death. Creepy.) (I'm still not over the pig.)

Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour. (Do not
 try
this at home.. maybe at work.)

The male praying mantis cannot copulate while its head is attached
to
 its
body. The female initiates sex by ripping the male's head off.
 (Honey,
I'm
home. What the?!)

The flea can jump 350 times its body length. It's a like a human
 jumping
the length of a football field. (30 minutes... lucky pig... can you
imagine??)

The catfish has over 27,000 taste buds. (What could be so tasty on
 the
bottom of a pond?)

Some lions mate over 50 times a day. (I still want to be a pig in
my
 next
life...quality over quantity)

Butterflies taste with their feet. (Something I always wanted to
 know.)

The strongest muscle in the body is the tongue. (Hmm)

Right-handed people live, on average, nine years longer than
 left-handed
people. (If you're ambidextrous, do you split the difference?)

Elephants are the only animals that cannot jump. (OK, so that would
 be
 a
good thing)

A cat's urine glows under a black light. (I wonder who was paid to
 figure
that out?)

An ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. (I know some people like
   that.)

Starfish have no brains. (I know some people like that too.)

Polar bears are left-handed. (If they switch, they'll live a lot
 longer.)

Humans and dolphins are the only species that have sex for
pleasure.
   (What
about that pig??)

Now that you've smiled at least once, it's your turn to spread the
stupidity and send this to someone you want to bring a smile to
 (maybe
even
a chuckle)

 _
 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk

2002-11-07 Thread rem melissa bruijn

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk



Thank you to Aviva, and Liz for your comments and support.

Aviva - I cannot agree more about the effectiveness of talking and writing to deal with trauma. And I am so sorry about what you had to go through to discover this - I will stand silent on 11/11.

Melissa

--
From: Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 1:45 PM


Wonderful! Go from victim to survivor to thriver to triumpher.

As a female Vietnam veteran who broke silence after nearly twenty-six years' silence, I can vouch for the effectiveness of both talking and writing as therapeutic assets. A must for all trauma survivors.

By the way, some of my Vietnam writing will be read at The Wall in Washington and the Writers' Tent on Memorial Day (equivalent of our Remembrance Day, 11/11). Have been invited to go over to give two half hour presentations next year, at the tenth anniversary of the dedication of the Vietnam Women Veterans' Memorial. I'll be passing the hat. Yes, talk, write, paint, draw, sing, dance, you name it, get it out out out and make sure people know about it.

And please, teach children -- yours and others -- about the minute's silence in respect for those whose children will never see them, who died so that we may indeed battle for birthrites/birthrights. It's such a shame it went from three minutes to one, and even that, so many people don't even recognise. One minute of standing still is a very small time.

Aviva

- Original Message - 
From: elizabeth mcalpine mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk

Dear Melissa,
There are just too many traumatic births.
Your group will grow huge - I'm sure that thousands of women will benefit in some small way, by sharing their stories. 
Liz Mc

[ozmidwifery] Pig semen!









  
  I have forgotten wh told me but in my ranting and raving after my 
  son's birth where the reason I was treated badly came down to the fact 
  that I was "difficult" because I refused to let them induce me with 
  Prostin for my own personal reasons. Someone informed me of 
  what it was made from as pig semen is very high in the naturally occuring 
  prostoglandin that occurs in all semen (even human - that is how sex can 
  help to bring on labour).
  So hey - sex with a pig is so much better to bring on labour - LOL 
  Sorry my sick sense of humour.
  
  OK- I refused because with my daughter I had been 
  inducedat 26weeks while very sick with Pre Eclampsiaand after 
  5 doses of prostin my vagina became sore and the cervix burnt and tender - 
  the ob then decided to try to manually dilatemy cervix which was 
  almost 1cm dilated and3cm long. 
  She got through it and failed to rupture the membrane because she 
  could not feel my (2lb) babies head.
  This was what could describe as a little uncomfortable (asthe 
  obhad warned me it would be) or you could truthfully say it was the 
  absolutely most painful thing I have ever had done to me. So, the 
  mere thought of being induced with prostin sent chills and fear through 
  meso I got up and went home after making sure that at 41 weeks my 
  baby was healthy and there was no real reason that they HAD to induce me 
  but they wanted to do a c/s if I didn't let them fill me with pig 
  semen. LOL
  
  So when I went into labour 4 days latter I had set the scene for them 
  to say - OH - YOU WERE MEANT TO HAVE A C/S - so there was no way 
  iwas allowed to deliver, they made sure of that. 
  
  Now having ranted once again back to the question of pig semen 
  - Idon't recall who told me - i know it is true because it came from 
  more than one person and now, I wonder how they explain that to people who 
  are vegetarian.Do they get treated badly if they refuse on 
  there ethical beliefs. Hmm???
  
  The mind boggles.
  And Aviva I loved the jump up and down one - probably a safer 
  alternativetoo.
  Rhonda
  
  
  
  
   
  ---Original Message---
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  November 07, 2002 22:56:19
  To: ozmid
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
  
  What if you were Jewish or Muslim?
  Or anyone else that doesn't like the whole idea generally?
  How did you find out it was made from Pig semen anyway?
  Just curious, Julie.
  
  
  
- Original Message -
From: 
Aviva Sheb'a
Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 
9:34 PM
To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
Interesting fact




Thank you, Rhonda, I'll pass this on. Pig semen? I'll bet if women 
knew what's in it, they'd be jumping up and down about it instead of 
using it! (Now there's an idea for induction...sorry, sometimes humour's 
a good thing).
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact


  
  

  I suggest tjhat you allow her to be angry and to vent her 
  pain and her anger towards those who caused it. 
  Support her in complaining to the hospital and insisting upon 
  answers as lame as they may be. If she were to ask why was 
  the induction needed? Was the baby in distress (at the time 
  of the first insertion of gel - a horrible substance called 
  prostin made from Pig seamen.
  Lovely!) Was her placenta failing? What was the 
  indication that at 10 days over she needed to be induced 
  anyway?
  Then once they have wormed out of that she should ask for 
  explanations as to why all of the intervention and what caused it 
  and why was it all needed.
  
  Give her lots of love and support to do this as nothing will 
  change and it will keep happening unless women are encouraged to 
  complain and conplain and complain! 
  Even if she personally gets little satisfaction fron the 
  complaint it is just one more brick to add - eventually we will 
  built a wall to protect women from this - brick by brick.
  
  You need to complain first to the registra at the hospital 
  but at the same time go directly to the medical practitioners 
  board

[ozmidwifery] Fw: Re: Fwd: RE: Natural Highs

2002-11-07 Thread pauline




Aren't these so true!

  
 Subject: natural highs   
Please make sure you forward this back to   
me...you'll see why at   the   
end! Think about them one at a time BEFORE going on to 
  the next   
one.IT DOES MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD specially the 
  thought at the   end.   

   1. Falling in love. 
  2. Laughing so hard your face hurts.   
3. A hot shower. 
  4. No 
lines at the supermarket
   5. A special glance. 
  6. Getting mail   
7. Taking a drive on a pretty road. 
  8. 
Hearing your favorite song on the radio. 
  9. Lying in bed listening to the rain outside. 
  10. 
Hot towels fresh out of the dryer.  
 11. Finding the sweater you want is on sale for 
half   price.
   12. Chocolate milkshake. (or vanilla!) 
(or   strawberry)   
13. A long distance phone call.  
 14. A 
bubble bath.  
 15. Giggling.
   16. A good conversation.
   17 The beach  
 18. Finding a 20 note in your 
coat from last winter.
   19. Laughing at yourself.
   20. Midnight phone calls that last for 
hours.   
21. Running through sprinklers.  
 22. Laughing for absolutely no reason at all.  
 23. Having 
someone tell you that you're beautiful. 
  24. Laughing at an inside joke.
   25. Friends.  
 26. 
Accidentally overhearing someone say something   
nice about you. 
  27. Waking up and realizing you still have a few
   hours left to sleep. 
  28. Your first kiss (either the very first or 
with a   new partner).  
 29. Making new friends or 
spending time with old   ones.
   30. Playing with a 
new puppy.   
31. Having someone play with your hair.
   32. Sweet dreams. 
  33. Hot chocolate.  
 34. Road 
trips with friends. 
  35. Swinging on swings. 
  36. Wrapping presents under the Christmas tree 
while   eating cookies  
 and   drinking your favorite tipple. 
  37. 
Song lyrics printed inside your new CD so you can   
sing alongwithout
   feeling stupid.  
 38. Going to a really good concert.
   39. Making eye 
contact with a cute stranger   
40. Winning a really competitive game.
   41. Making chocolate 
chip cookies.  
 42. Having your friends send you home-made cookies. 
  43. Spending time with 
close friends.  
 44. Seeing smiles and hearing laughter from your 
  friends.
   45. Holding hands with someone you care about.
   46. Running into an 
old friend and realizing that   some things 
(good or   bad) never change 
  47. Riding the best roller 
coasters over and over.
   48. Watching the expression on someone's face as they  
 open a much
desired   present from you.
   49. Watching the 
sunrise.   
50. Getting out of bed every morning and being   
grateful for another   beautiful day.  

   PASS ON THESE NATURAL HIGHS TO AT LEAST 7 PEOPLE IN   
THE NEXT HALF HOUR
AND   SOMETHING FANTASTIC WILL HAPPEN TO YOU 
IN THE NEXT FEW   HOURS. Be sure
   to   send it back to the 
person who sent it to you!   
Friends are quiet angels who lift us to our feet when 
  our wings have   
trouble remembering how to fly. 
  
 GM Proprietary The information contained in this 
electronic communication and its   attachments (if any) is confidential 
and subject to legal privilege.   The information is intended only for 
use of the individuals(s) to   whom it is addressed. If you are not an 
intended recipient, or the   agent or employee responsible to deliver it 
to an intended   recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, 
dissemination,   distribution or copying of this communication is 
strictly prohibited.   If you have received this electronic 
communication in error, please   delete it and immediately notify me by 
sending a return e-mail to   the address in this e-mail. Thank you.  
  
  

 
- 
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Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC









  
  How sad for this woman - that red tape and politics are going to scar 
  her for life in so many ways.
  This is the sad reality of our free and lucky country.
  Now speachless..
  Rhonda
  
  ---Original Message---
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  November 07, 2002 19:05:58
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] VBAC
  Thank you for your reply Lynne. Unfortunately, the model 
  of care where I practice is 95% medical, so consequently, options are 
  rather limited. All obstetricians here would veto the choice of 
  VBAC...litigation being foremost in their minds. One GP incorporates 
  Team Midwifery into his practice, but even there we are still "under 
  his banner" so to speak.A midwifery model of care has been bandied 
  about for many years here. This has been met with great resistance 
  from the obstetricians who view the model as being one where they get 
  to clean up the mess as one so delicatly put it.(We should 
  wish!)This particular woman has been advised that the only option 
  was caesarian section. She has seen her obstetrician privately 
  throughout her pregnancy and as a consequence, our only 'access' to 
  her is when she was admitted as I said at 36 weeks gestation, although 
  the cry..."Its never too late" could be used in this instance.She 
  is certainly aware of her options though, being advised by the midwives 
  who have met her since her admission.Unfortunately, because 
  she would have to change hospitals (none of the other obstetricians 
  would take on her care at this stage, in support of the other 
  obstetrician), it is all too much of a bother to have to address the 
  issues of booking else where etc etc apparently, and woe betide the 
  midwife who is found culpable of directing this woman to an 
  alternative hospital, let alone another doctor!Hope this is 
  not too long 
  winded.Regards,brbrbrhtmlDIVFONT 
  color=#cc face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" size=5Jenny 
  IMG height=12 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/emrose.gif" 
  width=12/FONT/DIV/htmlFrom: 
  "Lynne Staff" lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  Re: [ozmidwifery] VBACDate: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:03:48 
  +1000Hi Jenny - How does this woman feel about the 
  decision to have another caesarean? Does she know that she is 
  entitled to a second (and third...) opinion? Or will she be 
  jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire with the other 
  opinions she seeks (if all of the obs are like-minded)? And not 
  just obs either. I remember many years ago at a homebirth meeting, a 
  woman approached me who had had three caesareans and asked me 
  whether I thought she could labour and give birth vaginally, and I 
  said "No, it is unlikely". In my ignorance and naievety, and 
  working within a system where no woman was encouraged, nor mostly 
  "allowed" to have a "trial of scar" (ugh...), I did not know, nor 
  had the experience to support a woman through this experience. I 
  had therefore never seen what women could do, except for those who 
  were dripped and monitored continually and told if they hadn't 
  dilated x centimeters by x time they would 'need' a caesarean. 
  Talk about setting them up for one!Anyway, years 
  have gone by when I have been able to be with women choosing this 
  option and yes, it was at home. I got to know women who had done 
  amazing things to get their babies born, and I remember telling ab 
  ob I know about these experiences, and others I had heard about. 
  He asked me why he had never heard of women achieving these 
  incredible births after one and more caesareans. I can remember 
  just looking at him, and asking back "Would you or colleagues of 
  yours have listened to them had they requested support for this?" 
  He could not answer me.I was at two amazing births a 
  fortnight ago where the woman had had previous caesareans - I am 
  fortunate enough to work in a hospital now with people who support 
  the concept of vaginal birth following caesarean, and our "stats" 
  are exceptional. But what is far more important than stats is how 
  the woman planning to give birth vaginally feels about it, whether she 
  gives birth vaginally or by caesarean (or as a friend of mine and 
  I hear "from above, or from below" - WHAT mesages does that 
  give!!!).She is the 'liver' of the experience - the giver 
  of birth, and what she feels as she moves through it and into the 
  rest of her life may be cruicial to how she sees herself, her 
  relationship with the infant, with her partner, and with her other 
  children.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Fw: FW:









  A pig's orgasm 
  lasts 30 minutes. (In my next life, I want to be a 
  pig.)Well, look at that - 
  Now we know why their semen is so potent!
  I am sure if we can get our men to perform betterthen we 
  canmake the use of prostin obsolete! LOL 
  Rhonda





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)









  
  Here Here!
  And - spread the word of your achievement to inspire others to 
  question and do what is right for them and not just doing what the Ob's 
  decide they want to do. Well Done!
  Rhonda 
  ---Original Message---
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  November 07, 2002 21:52:44
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)
  
  CONGRATULATIONS 
  JACKIE
  Joy to you, your babies and 
  partner. It is not easy to defy the medical system. Power to you 
  sister!
  Love, Liz.
  





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
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[ozmidwifery] Complaints









  
  I have been thionking a lot about the complain process that I wne 
  through - it took 2 1/2 yrs to get a very vague reply of - Well because 
  the midwife who could support your claims may not be in the country any 
  more - we don't know where she is (REALLY!) There isn't any prooof 
  and we have had a letter form the ob's solicitor warning us that unless we 
  have absolute proof we can't even repremand him. How 
laughable.
  But, we are sure that you have a genuine complaint and don't doubt 
  that you have had a terrible and traumatic experience. 
  
  Hmm - I guess it was worth it in a way. But, I am thinking that 
  if an increasing number of women made complaints no matter how small the 
  problem just the complaints about unnecessary iontervbention. Some 
  will be huge complaints and others the woman having twins who is not able 
  to have a vaginal delivery because of red tape - she should be encouraged 
  to complain.
  
  When you go to social security you are given a place to complain to - 
  women who have babies are not told. We need to make sure women know 
  how to complain and who to - 
  The best place I found was the medical Practitioners board - as the 
  Health Services Commisioner was a joke - a big joke that is basically 
  there to deter you from going to the medical practitioners board and 
  wasting there time. Therefore, complaint'shere are generally 
  swept under the carpet so the Medical practitioners board don't know what 
  the doctors are actually doing.
  
  So I guess it is up to all of you - to encourage women with 
  genuine complaints to write letters to the medical practitioners board - 
  over poor bedside manner, lack of freedom of safe choices, stubborn ob's 
  set in their ways, over use of interventions, the torture they are putting 
  women through.
  
  They will have to do something if they keep hearing about it they 
  will eventually see the full picture as we see it.
  
  I really believe that this is the only way the doctors are going to 
  change - start at the top - Make them accountable for their actions.
  
  Regards
  Rhonda
  
  





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] prostins









  
  From what i know it is a synthetic lubricant type base with the 
  'hormone' prostoglandin derived from concentrated pig semen.
  Even the DR who i spoke to at theMedical Practitioners Board 
  seemed a bit disgusted with that when I told him and he agreed that he 
  would have refused it too. LOL
  
  Rhonda
  
  ---Original Message---
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  November 07, 2002 23:42:25
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  prostins
  
  Is prostins really made from pig semen or is it synthetic? A muslim 
  woman asked me this question recently.from Lynda 
  





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
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[ozmidwifery] another horror story

Title: Message



A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her 
starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her 
husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look like 
hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an epidural 
which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... no problem! 
that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe she'd managed 
to birth unaided. Tragic!

We could (and will, no doubt) go 
on!

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Aviva 
  Sheb'aSent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:50 AMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Interesting fact
  Whew, Rhonda. 
  I heard this morning from a friend about a friend of hers, aged 19, whose 
  baby was 10 days late; ob insisted on inducing with gel, nothing much 
  happening, into hosp., more drugs, foetal monitoring, on her back, strapped 
  down to bed, more drugs, epidural, more of same, enormous episiotomy, cut 
  artery, blood gushing in spurts, vacuum to head, two big men hauling as though 
  it was a tug-of-war, massive lump on baby's head accompanied by ring of scars, 
  she's stitched up, off her face, baby won't wake up, won't feed, she's being 
  pumped every six hours for milk which they're somehow force feeding to baby. 
  but hey, at least she's ok and the baby's ok, they tell her, and she repeats 
  as she recovers from her torture. Yes, it's happening under our noses. In 
  Adelaide, November, 2002. 
  ...and I'm screaming inside for women and children...who are our 
  future.
  
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rhonda 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:05 AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
  
  


  

Well Megan,

I guess the only way to really understand is this..

I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has 
happened and I have dealt with it in my own way)


  

  
  


 
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth

Title: Message



Something I like to do for Ceasarean born babies...and breech born 
too...is spend time massaging the babe from crown down (for some reason, I went 
to write 'song-lines'here...interesting...) the body to the toes, making sure 
every part of the body is stimulated...simulating the passage through the 
vagina... the mothers have felt very good about doing this themselves...a gift 
to their child... Vicki

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of elizabeth 
  mcalpineSent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:13 PMTo: 
  ozmidwiferyCc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth
  Thanks to whoever sent the transcript. 
  
  
  I have since inundated the ABC dimensions with my 
  comments and request for help to get the message across.
  arrgghh!
  
  Its just too much to bear sometimes.
  
  Just yesterday, a fellow student and I were 
  chatting after doing some work. She has a 15 yr old.
  Horrible, violent birth (the usual) After 
  about 18 months, she returned to the hospital to discuss what had happened to 
  her.That helped her a bit butshe still grieves. 
  No more children followed.
  
  In actual fact, I make it a point to know birth 
  stories from every woman I know - (I should collect them for a book or 
  something) 
  
  Oh and here's another. Discussing 
  NMAP, violent birth vs humanized birth etc. as usual with all and 
  sundry
  one woman at work was listening so intently and I 
  thought, "hello, there's something here".
  On asking, it turned out that her third child, at 
  full dilatation had cord prolapse. Big emergency, she said. Upside 
  down and then hauled out with forceps.
  She was advised my a very wise woman, to provide 
  excess sensory stimulation to enable/create neurophysiological recovery caused 
  by damage due to forceps.
  Very thankful she did that, because as a toddler 
  it helped him develop normally.
  He's 18 now,but has a very 'dark' side. ie 
  suicidal thoughts.
  
  Liz Mc

Re: [ozmidwifery] registration

2002-11-07 Thread megan davidson

Congratulations Marilyn,
We are all very  proud (and a little jealous) of your wonderful achievement.

Megan, and the rest of the mareeba mob.

- Original Message -
From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:12 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration

 It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are caseload -
later
 I hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at the moment is:

 OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am registered to practise as a
 non-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, Australia as of November 7th,
2002.
 You can see this for yourself by going to.

 www.qnc.qld.gov.au

 then go to online inquiries/registration (or something similar)
 then public inquiries

 enter my name: Marilyn Kleidon, DOB: Day/month /year :1/12/1951

 or

 my (non) nurse ID#: QLD020021147

 and you will bring up my very public authorisation. he he hah hah!!

 I am authorised under S.77(4) Nursing act 1992 to practise as a midwife
 only.

 Very excitedly

 marilyn (non-nurse midwife)

 - Original Message -
 From: Mrs joanne m fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:49 PM
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

  I too, think that is an excellant idea Marilyn
  Cheers, Joanne
  BTW have you ended up finding a place to work?
  - Original Message -
  From: Jennifer Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

   re: a portfolio of caseload working arrangements

   Marilyn, what a great idea!

   I think the seed has been planted in many BMid students who never
would
   have considered independent practice before they began the course.
   It's great to hear from Jessica that grad dip progams are also
   nurturing continuity of caregiver, etc.

   Love, Jen

   - Original Message -
   From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: Monday, November 4, 2002 7:07 am
   Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

As always Tina you say it all so well. I think we should generate
a portfolio of caseload working arrangements that have worked or
are working well for midwives on the list so that those who like
the theory of caseload but are apprehensive about the practice in
their lives, can see the reality of the situation.

We can also learn from practices that burn midwives out and/or
are unsatisfactory to women.

Obviously there are probably as many variations of practice
arrangements as there are midwives however, for those just
branching out some well worn paths could be helpful. I think if
midwives realised that (hopefully) caseload could include
everything from one birth per month to five or six births a month
depending on the individual midwife / group of midwives.

marilyn

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[ozmidwifery] kirsty Marshall

2002-11-07 Thread megan davidson





 I was just watching Roy and H.G. interviewing a pregnant kirsty 
Marshall who is apparently running for the seat of ?Forrest Hill as a labor 
party rep. I wonder if any one "down south" was able to find a means of 
contacting her, with the aim of providing her with info re NMAP etc. 

Megan

RE: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk

Title: Message



Dear 
Melissa... Please write to the health minister Wendy Edmond...she really needs 
to hear your stories...and to know that groups such as yours exist...love to 
you!! Vicki

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of rem  
  melissa bruijnSent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:37 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] introducing "birthtalk"Hi - I have been 
  lurking for a little while now, and after all the discussion on Birth Trauma 
  and c/secs etc, I felt I must come out of lurkdom and introduce 
  myself!Firstly, for all the women who have been sharing their 
  traumatic experiences (Rhonda, Jo) - I am so very sorry for what you had to go 
  through to meet your babies. It breaks my heart. I am grateful for 
  your honesty - thank you.I, too had a traumatic caesarean, three 
  and a half years ago. Actually, Cathy Cornack (who was interviewed on 
  the Dimensions program) asked me to be interviewed with her for the show...but 
  at that stage, I just couldn't do it. I was still too raw and grieving. 
  It took me 2.5 years to begin to grieve, and then it came out with a 
  vengeance. My story is so similar to Cathy's that we couldn't believe it 
  when we sat and compared notes : our babies were born a month apart, planned 
  Birth Centre birth in Sydney (we both have since moved to Brisbane), very long 
  labours, OP babies, non-supportive carers, sectioned at around 9 cms, no 
  post-natal support for the experiences, difficulties bonding, and 
  breastfeeding, and even just surviving every day.I have since done a 
  lot of personal research, and a lot of crying, and a lot of talking, and 
  sharing on lists such as the ICAN (International Caesarean Awareness Network) 
  list and the hbac (Home Birth After C/sec) lists. It has been a long 
  road to healing. In fact Jenny Gamble, the midwife interviewed on NEw 
  Dimensions, was instrumental in my healing, as I spent about an hour crying to 
  her and sharing my story, in the early stages of my grieving. She really 
  helped me separate the grief from the trauma and made me aware that the trauma 
  would not go away on its own - it must be acknowledged and dealt 
  with.So, anyway, now I have come such a long way, I have wanted to 
  share what I have learned, and help other women heal, or avoid what I went 
  through. So, along with my sister-in-law (a midwife and childbirth 
  educator), and a mutual family friend (a homebirth vbac mum), we have decided 
  to combine forces and start a positive birthing group.Our group is 
  called "birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth". We 
  aim to : * provide a forum for women to share 
  their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth* empower women by 
  providing access to current and accurate literature  
  information abouttheir birthing options *encourage an atmosphere 
  of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women.We 
  had 10 women at the last meeting, 7 who have had caesareans, and 3 of those 
  women have had two c/sec births. All of these women have been 
  traumatised by their experiences except one (who was arguing right up until 
  theatre). We had one newly pg first time mum, and 2 home birth mums (one 
  was a vbac). Actually, when we debriefed at the end of the 
  meeting, the first-time mum said that she had felt out of place at the start 
  of the meeting, then realised that she thought she could just be "taken care 
  of" and let the Dr look after her...but now realises that she is going to need 
  to read more, and take more responsibility, and be more informed. That 
  just sent a glow to my heart.Anyway - just wanted to say hello - and 
  thank you to all of you for what you are doing to reform the way we birth, and 
  for having the courage to ask the questions.Melissa 
  Bruijnbirthtalk meets monthly at Toowong, in Brisbane, 
  Australiaemail us at : 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melissa : ph (07) 3356 7449 
  Debby : ph (07) 3379 7424Karen : ph (07) 3720 
1101

RE: [ozmidwifery] registration

Lovely!!
Scary thing is, somewhere there it says I am a nurse!! Yeah, sure!!
Vicki

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Marilyn
Kleidon
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:13 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration

 It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are caseload -
later I hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at the moment is:

OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am registered to practise as
a non-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, Australia as of November 7th,
2002. You can see this for yourself by going to.

www.qnc.qld.gov.au

then go to online inquiries/registration (or something similar) then
public inquiries

enter my name: Marilyn Kleidon, DOB: Day/month /year :1/12/1951

or

my (non) nurse ID#: QLD020021147

and you will bring up my very public authorisation. he he hah hah!!

I am authorised under S.77(4) Nursing act 1992 to practise as a midwife
only.

Very excitedly

marilyn (non-nurse midwife)

- Original Message -
From: Mrs joanne m fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

 I too, think that is an excellant idea Marilyn
 Cheers, Joanne
 BTW have you ended up finding a place to work?
 - Original Message -
 From: Jennifer Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:04 PM
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

  re: a portfolio of caseload working arrangements

  Marilyn, what a great idea!

  I think the seed has been planted in many BMid students who never 
  would have considered independent practice before they began the 
  course. It's great to hear from Jessica that grad dip progams are 
  also nurturing continuity of caregiver, etc.

  Love, Jen

  - Original Message -
  From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, November 4, 2002 7:07 am
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

   As always Tina you say it all so well. I think we should generate 
   a portfolio of caseload working arrangements that have worked or 
   are working well for midwives on the list so that those who like 
   the theory of caseload but are apprehensive about the practice in 
   their lives, can see the reality of the situation.

   We can also learn from practices that burn midwives out and/or are

   unsatisfactory to women.

   Obviously there are probably as many variations of practice 
   arrangements as there are midwives however, for those just 
   branching out some well worn paths could be helpful. I think if 
   midwives realised that (hopefully) caseload could include 
   everything from one birth per month to five or six births a month 
   depending on the individual midwife / group of midwives.

   marilyn

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[ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary?

Title: Message



Dear all... anyone 
recall the research many years ago that had half the subjects ask the question 
"is it really necessary" when faced with the prospect of intervention.? 
Astounding changes to the outcome of birth. A reference would be 
great!
Vicki

Re: [ozmidwifery] prostins

2002-11-07 Thread Aron Mavros


I don't know if there is a synthetic prostin out there, but we were first told about prostin gel being made from pig semen in my doula workshop - absolutely grossed out! The women I have been able to tell about this have been much more insistent about refusing induction (at least in this method) when they heard about it. More than one has said she knows a much better place to get a little prostoglandin (heh heh )! love to you all,


¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) 

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-Blessings, 

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´* Aron




"Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again."

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)

2002-11-07 Thread MHS Grové




Hi Jackie
I am so glad that you persisted, and that 
everything went so well.Congrats and enjoy the babymoon 
Hettie GroveRN.RM.RCN.RNA.RNT.ICCE. South 
Africa027-83-2260709Fax 27-11-7403507[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  
  BIG BUNDLE OF 
  JOY :))
  Hi 
  everyone!

Re: [ozmidwifery] registration

2002-11-07 Thread Marilyn Kleidon




NO Liz I am not a nurse, I am direct entry fom the 
USA, I am home birth trained/educated except for the 4 weeks I spent at St. 
George Delivery Suite and the 3 weeks at Mareeba under supervision. Which 
actually is why I said non-nurse because on my registration paper, beside the 
nurse category is printed non-nurse, and on the bottom the paper says "non-nurse 
midwife only". You can see this on the QNC web site. And the QNC does have the 
ACMI competencies (which had to be checked off during the supervision) and a 
lovely ACMI midwife handbook that is sent out with the authorisation. It 
is interesting, in my job search I have sent a few letters out, one to a private 
hospital up north mainly because it is close to relatives, well they 
calledme to find out my ceasarean experience which I had to admit 
willingly was very small, no, I have not topped off an epidural after a c/s. All 
I can say is people really don't read cv/resumes do they! Anyway, I don't think 
they will be offering me a job, which is probably a good thing all round. 


So, I am just a little confused as to what initials 
to put after my name. In Washington I wasLM for licensed midwife which 
distinguishes someone like me from a LCNM (licensed certified 
nursemidwife) in Washington. I am more than happy to right RM but I think 
really I am an AM (authorised midwife) or maybe a NNM (non-nuse midwife). I just 
really don't want to misrepresent myself. 

Back to the various nursing councils/boards, I did 
get lots of excellent advice from everyone on this list, however I do 
think many people thought Queensland might be the last state to authorise me. I 
downloaded the application forms from each state and I thought Queendland's were 
the mostuser friendly to someone like me. I mean they had a box to check 
for midwife only. Of courseI am originally a Queenslanderso I am 
thrilled that the QNC approved my application. I guess if I choose to travel 
then other states also have to approve me under mutual recognition. 


marilyn (still thrilled)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  elizabeth mcalpine 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:07 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  registration
  
  Marilyn, Are you also a nurse? 
  Because when I told the Vic Nurses Board that I only wanted to register as a 
  midwife, they told me that it was not possible.
  I asked about the new midwives - those graduates 
  without nursing- I was told they'd think of that then.
  Liz Mc
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Aviva 
Sheb'a 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:17 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
registration

Hearty, hearty CONGRATULATIONS, Marilyn!!! 
Well done! May you assist women and babies -- and fathers --in 
beautiful births for many years to come!
Love,
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Marilyn 
Kleidon 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration
It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are 
caseload - laterI hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at the 
moment is:OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am registered 
to practise as anon-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, Australia as of 
November 7th, 2002.You can see this for yourself by going 
to.www.qnc.qld.gov.au

Re: [ozmidwifery] FTP

2002-11-07 Thread Andrea Quanchi

Never heard it described as this but I know it happens often, Trouble is 
in the hospital setting it usually gets the synt infusion hurry up at 
the first pause
Andrea Q

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Re: [ozmidwifery] registration




Well, good on you Marilyn.There will be 
more following you.(I canny wait!!) I think RM is right. 
You are registered as a midwife. I 
worked with a lady in Abu Dhabi - direct entry midwife who was going to NSW and 
got registration there.
love,
Liz

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marilyn 
  Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 1:17 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  registration
  
  NO Liz I am not a nurse, I am direct entry fom 
  the USA, I am home birth trained/educated except for the 4 weeks I spent at 
  St. George Delivery Suite and the 3 weeks at Mareeba under supervision. Which 
  actually is why I said non-nurse because on my registration paper, beside the 
  nurse category is printed non-nurse, and on the bottom the paper says 
  "non-nurse midwife only". You can see this on the QNC web site. And the QNC 
  does have the ACMI competencies (which had to be checked off during the 
  supervision) and a lovely ACMI midwife handbook that is sent out with the 
  authorisation. It is interesting, in my job search I have sent a few 
  letters out, one to a private hospital up north mainly because it is close to 
  relatives, well they calledme to find out my ceasarean experience which 
  I had to admit willingly was very small, no, I have not topped off an epidural 
  after a c/s. All I can say is people really don't read cv/resumes do they! 
  Anyway, I don't think they will be offering me a job, which is probably a good 
  thing all round. 
  
  So, I am just a little confused as to what 
  initials to put after my name. In Washington I wasLM for licensed 
  midwife which distinguishes someone like me from a LCNM (licensed certified 
  nursemidwife) in Washington. I am more than happy to right RM but I 
  think really I am an AM (authorised midwife) or maybe a NNM (non-nuse 
  midwife). I just really don't want to misrepresent myself. 
  
  Back to the various nursing councils/boards, I 
  did get lots of excellent advice from everyone on this list, however I 
  do think many people thought Queensland might be the last state to authorise 
  me. I downloaded the application forms from each state and I thought 
  Queendland's were the mostuser friendly to someone like me. I mean they 
  had a box to check for midwife only. Of courseI am originally a 
  Queenslanderso I am thrilled that the QNC approved my application. I 
  guess if I choose to travel then other states also have to approve me under 
  mutual recognition. 
  
  marilyn (still thrilled)
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
elizabeth mcalpine 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:07 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
registration

Marilyn, Are you also a nurse? 
Because when I told the Vic Nurses Board that I only wanted to register as a 
midwife, they told me that it was not possible.
I asked about the new midwives - those 
graduates without nursing- I was told they'd think of that 
then.
Liz Mc

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Aviva 
  Sheb'a 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 
  4:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  registration
  
  Hearty, hearty CONGRATULATIONS, Marilyn!!! 
  Well done! May you assist women and babies -- and fathers --in 
  beautiful births for many years to come!
  Love,
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Marilyn 
  Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:42 AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration
  It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are 
  caseload - laterI hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at 
  the moment is:OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am 
  registered to practise as anon-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, 
  Australia as of November 7th, 2002.You can see this for yourself by 
  going to.www.qnc.qld.gov.au

Re: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth

Title: Message



Good tip Vicki - I'll spread the word and 
incorporate it into my practice.
love,
Liz Mc

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vicki Chan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:37 
  AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - 
  violent birth
  
  Something I like to do for Ceasarean born babies...and breech born 
  too...is spend time massaging the babe from crown down (for some reason, I 
  went to write 'song-lines'here...interesting...) the body to the toes, making 
  sure every part of the body is stimulated...simulating the passage through the 
  vagina... the mothers have felt very good about doing this themselves...a gift 
  to their child... Vicki
  

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of elizabeth 
mcalpineSent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:13 PMTo: 
ozmidwiferyCc: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] dimensions 
- violent birth
Thanks to whoever sent the transcript. 


I have since inundated the ABC dimensions with 
my comments and request for help to get the message across.
arrgghh!

Its just too much to bear 
sometimes.

Just yesterday, a fellow student and I were 
chatting after doing some work. She has a 15 yr 
old.
Horrible, violent birth (the usual) After 
about 18 months, she returned to the hospital to discuss what had happened 
to her.That helped her a bit butshe still 
grieves. No more children followed.

In actual fact, I make it a point to know birth 
stories from every woman I know - (I should collect them for a book or 
something) 

Oh and here's another. Discussing 
NMAP, violent birth vs humanized birth etc. as usual with all and 
sundry
one woman at work was listening so intently and 
I thought, "hello, there's something here".
On asking, it turned out that her third child, 
at full dilatation had cord prolapse. Big emergency, she said. 
Upside down and then hauled out with forceps.
She was advised my a very wise woman, to 
provide excess sensory stimulation to enable/create neurophysiological 
recovery caused by damage due to forceps.
Very thankful she did that, because as a 
toddler it helped him develop normally.
He's 18 now,but has a very 'dark' side. 
ie suicidal thoughts.

Liz 
Mc

Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: training

Andrea,  Yes, I'm interested thanks.
c/o 75 Mitchell St.,
Brunswick,
Melbourne. 3056
- Original Message -
From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 6:29 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: training

 Hi Liz,

 If you want to investigate a training that is not within a University,
 you would be welcome to investigate/review our Graduate Diploma in
 Childbirth Education. We have clearly defined competencies and performance
 criteria for all aspects of this course. Let me know.

 Cheers

 Andrea

 At 17:52 5/11/2002, elizabeth  mcalpine wrote:
 Thanks Tina,  I have that..

 I was thinking that in your training you would have 'competency units'
 leading to performance criteria.  Do you???

 love,
 Liz
 - Original Message -
 From: mailto:TinaPettigrew;aol.com[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: mailto:ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:08 PM
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] training

 In a message dated 5/11/02 3:15:31 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time,
 mailto:lizmcalpine;ihug.com.au[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Dear midwife students.

 I need to review a training program/strategy.

 Can anyone send me something, with competencies/objectives??

 Many thanks
 Liz McAlpine
 Hi Liz
 try the ACMI webite at
 http://www.acmi.org.au...underwww.acmi.org.au...under the link of
 profssional documents you will find the ACMI Competency Standards for
 Midwives (2002). These standards are the minimum 'benchmarks' for
 midwifery practice.

 Cheers Tina P.

 -
 Andrea Robertson
 Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 web: www.birthinternational.com

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[ozmidwifery] Julia's birth

2002-11-07 Thread Isis and Andrew Caple

After following the
discussions about interventions, prostin and in some cases ob's putting the fear
of danger into mother's minds, I wanted to share Julia's birth with you
all. After she was born, it was then that I decided to become a midwife. I
wanted to become a voice in the birthing woman's ear telling her to trust
herself, that she was doing fine and to guide/support her in the special journey
that is pregnancy/childbirth...

Julia was due to
be bornaround 18th October
2001.I was originally booked into the Geelong Hospital
Birthing Centre, but I stupidly mentioned a cyst that I had in my head and like
a hot-cake, I was shifted to the ante-natal clinic. I kept telling them
that it was just a lump of flesh and a that neurologist had given me the all
clear, but the doctors just nodded and gave the good old- 'Just in case...'

At about 30 weeks, my blood pressure shot through the
roof. No other symptoms, just a bp of about 150/105. Eventually at 38
weeks, the doctors decided that I should havemy babe induced.
The medicationsweren't reducingmy BP.The date of the
inducement was Monday 8th October 2001. I remember the OB who booked the induction, telling me
that because I was being induced, I would most likely need to be put on a drip
then given an epidural all in order to bring down my blood pressure. Being a
first time mother, with no female support in this state, I nodded and accepted
it. I had done my research, I knew what all these interventions were, but
because it was my body that wasn't coping, I didn't bother
questioning.

At 8amon the big day, Andrew and I went to the
hospital for the first (as it turns out- only) application of the prostaglandin
gel (or should Isay- pig
jism..LOL)at 8.30am. I was at the hospital for about 2 hours while
they externally monitored Julias heart rate and my blood pressure.They told
me to go home and get into bed and to return at about 4.30pm. So
we left the hospital, and got home at about 11.30am. I jumped into
bed to read at about midday, feeling slight period pain. The slight period pain
felt stronger and stronger, till at 1pm I decided to get up and have a walk and
a cup of tea. Just as I thought
about doing this, I heard a pop, but thought it was from outside. I rolled out
of bed and stood up, feeling 2 runs of water, that was definitely not me
weeing myself. I then realised as
well that my period pains were quite regular and painful. They were 4 minutes apart and definitely
enough to make me take notice. We
called the hospital and were told to come in, but not to rush it. I had a piece
of toast and a cup of tea, by then the contractions were 3 minutes apart. On the way to the hospital I was really
uncomfortable. The contractions were 2 minutes apart and quite painful by the
time we got to the hospital at about 2pm. They monitored Julia, she was fine and
my blood pressure was stable.

They moved me into the
birthing room at about 3pm and I immediately went into the shower, on the roller
ball thingy. They dida VE and I was 3 cm dilated at 3.30pm. The next hour went like a blur. I remember asking for pethidine, being
told to wait and that I was doing really well just breathing and rocking through
the contractions. I remember I
looked at one of the mid-wives and asked for some gas. I was on the verge of freaking out with
the pain (Andrew has told me that I actually screamed) She had me lie over a bean bag with
pillows heaped on top of it and showed me how to use the gas. I had the choice
of the mouthpiece, or the mask. I chose the mask. I remember she told me to make the
machine rattle. I made it almost explode J I could feel each contraction coming,
getting harder and lasting longer.When the contraction started, I started sucking gas and
rocking around.The gas removed my sense of time, but left me
aware of thecontractions. I could
hear people talking and I could talk back, but I was really in my own world.

At about 4.30
(apparently) I yelled that I needed to push. My contractions were finishing with an
extreme urge to push or should I say, an extreme
urge to do a BIG poo... The
midwives told me that I couldnt push, to use the gas and breathe through that
urge and that the doctor was on the way.That was hard trying to stop my body doing what it
needed to do. Well- the
doctor looked inside and said, yep, she is ready to go, 10 cm dilated and that
Julias head was waiting to come out.I remember thinking-'I told you so!!'
So then the push
started.

I didn't think about getting off the bed, no-one
suggested I get off the bed. In hindsight, I should've gotten off the bed.
I pushed about 5 times, each
time, moving her slowly further down.
The midwives told me to change my way of pushing. I put my feet on their hips, grabbed
hold of my thighs near my knees, stuck my chin down to my chest and when time
came to push, I remember I roared. Its funny, while I was roaring, I remember

Re: [ozmidwifery] registration

2002-11-07 Thread Denise Hynd

Marilyn
Well done
I am sorry it could not happen here in Sydney
Denise

- Original Message -
From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:12 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration

 It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are caseload -
later
 I hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at the moment is:

 OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am registered to practise as a
 non-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, Australia as of November 7th,
2002.
 You can see this for yourself by going to.

 www.qnc.qld.gov.au

 then go to online inquiries/registration (or something similar)
 then public inquiries

 enter my name: Marilyn Kleidon, DOB: Day/month /year :1/12/1951

 or

 my (non) nurse ID#: QLD020021147

 and you will bring up my very public authorisation. he he hah hah!!

 I am authorised under S.77(4) Nursing act 1992 to practise as a midwife
 only.

 Very excitedly

 marilyn (non-nurse midwife)

 - Original Message -
 From: Mrs joanne m fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 5:49 PM
 Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

  I too, think that is an excellant idea Marilyn
  Cheers, Joanne
  BTW have you ended up finding a place to work?
  - Original Message -
  From: Jennifer Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 4:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

   re: a portfolio of caseload working arrangements

   Marilyn, what a great idea!

   I think the seed has been planted in many BMid students who never
would
   have considered independent practice before they began the course.
   It's great to hear from Jessica that grad dip progams are also
   nurturing continuity of caregiver, etc.

   Love, Jen

   - Original Message -
   From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: Monday, November 4, 2002 7:07 am
   Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

As always Tina you say it all so well. I think we should generate
a portfolio of caseload working arrangements that have worked or
are working well for midwives on the list so that those who like
the theory of caseload but are apprehensive about the practice in
their lives, can see the reality of the situation.

We can also learn from practices that burn midwives out and/or
are unsatisfactory to women.

Obviously there are probably as many variations of practice
arrangements as there are midwives however, for those just
branching out some well worn paths could be helpful. I think if
midwives realised that (hopefully) caseload could include
everything from one birth per month to five or six births a month
depending on the individual midwife / group of midwives.

marilyn

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy arrived :)

2002-11-07 Thread Denise Hynd




Dear mary 
Any one i know?
Denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mary 
  Murphy 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:24 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Susanna Joy 
  arrived :)
  
  Woo Weee! I am so happy for you Jackie! What 
  a brave and wonderful woman!!! Isn't it amazing what a woman's body can 
  do when allowed?. I know you are sooo tired and busy, but if you live North of 
  the River,(or not too far south) we have an after birth get together on 
  the first Thursday of the month at our Leederville office at 336 Oxford St, 
  10am - 1pm or whatever time you want to come. Bring the under two. 
  It is very informal, bring a packet of bikkies or something small, a dip or 
  what ever. Today we had mums and babies ranging from 6 days to 1 
  year. Sometimes a friend or sister or Mother (/in law) come as well and 
  add their little bit. the next one is Thurs 5th Dec. Cheers, 
  MM

Re: [ozmidwifery] prostins




I wonder how long it'll take me to come to terms 
with the pig semen idea. I hope forever. Imagine how they collect the stuff. 
'Scuse me. Interesting Jewish aside...pigs are not Kosher. Great way of 
refusing! Sorry, it's not Kosher, can't go near it; think I'd better wait till 
Bub is ready. Thanks for the offer though, it was most thoughtful. 
sigh
aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Aron 
Mavros 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] prostins



I don't know if there is a synthetic prostin out there, but we were first 
told about prostin gel being made from pig semen in my doula workshop - 
absolutely grossed out! The women I have been able to tell about this have 
been much more insistent about refusing induction (at least in this method) when 
they heard about it. More than one has said she knows a much better place 
to get a little prostoglandin (heh heh )! love to you 
all,


¸..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ 
.·´¨¨)) 

((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:-Blessings, 

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´* Aron 




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again."



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RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

2002-11-07 Thread leanne wynne

Hi Vicki,
Yes, I'm still here battling the archaic controlling attitudes of 
obstetricians and hospital beaurocracy. Because of the insurance debacle the 
local independent midwives can no longer practice so they are refering women 
to me as I am the only person able to provide free woman-centred pregnancy 
care. As a result about 20% of our clients are non-indigenous and these 
include professional women such as midwives, registered nurses and a 
naturopath. It's rather ironic I think that the lowest socio-economic group 
in the state, that is aboriginal women, are the only ones receiving the best 
evidence based care.
All the best, Leanne.


From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:17:44 +1000

I went to visit Leanne in my past life as 'the travelling midwife'
wonderful work going on!
Hi Leanne and glad to 'see'you here! Vicki

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of leanne wynne
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?


Hi All,
I run a Maternity and Women's Health Service within an Aboriginal
Community
Controlled Health Service in rural Victoria. I have a terrific manager
who
allows me to work autonomously so long as I keep him informed. An
Aboriginal
Maternal Health worker and I work as a team and we provide 24hour/day on

call for those in labour, (or any other crisis) antenatal care, either
in
the client's own home or in the Health Service, labour support at home
and/or in the local hospital (the local midwives are wonderfully
supportive
of our service) and postnatal care. We work whatever hours our women
need
us. We dont get paid for 'on-call' or 'overtime' but are able to take
'time-off-in-lieu' when things are quiet.
In my opinion if midwives aim to provide continuity of care then 8 hour
shifts are not an option.
Leanne.


From: Debby M [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:06:24 +



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Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing "birthtalk"



Thank you, Melissa.I am so in awe of the 
entire pregnancy/birthing process not only because it is indeed awe-inspiring, 
but because of all my experiences in Vietnam. My three months there were hell, 
but the understanding and compassion I've developed because of it all, is 
enormous.
Here's a link to my web site: http://www.chariot.net.au/~aviva 


Hugs and love to all,

aviva
- Original Message - 
From: rem  melissa 
bruijn 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing "birthtalk"
Thank you to Aviva, and Liz for your comments and 
support.Aviva - I cannot agree more about the effectiveness of talking 
and writing to deal with trauma. And I am so sorry about what you had to 
go through to discover this - I will stand silent on 
11/11.Melissa

Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences

2002-11-07 Thread Dr Penelope A Barrett

I wonder how many midwives have also felt violated and traumatised (but not
been able to find expression) for having to partake in care of women in
hospital that has trauma as part of it - as a witness? I'm reflecting on
some really bad vibes I can remember and the (?) shame/guilt/shock (?) at
having to be witness to some of this and yet not in control of the person
who is perpetuating it. I'll have to give this some thought - it is really
disturbing me - may be an explanation for some tensions I carry.

PennyB.

On 7/11/02 7:21 PM, Margie Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My heart goes out to everyone who is sharing or has had soul and body hurting
 births. It is not ok.  And must change. I have had the honour of supporting a
 number of women who have previously been traumatised by caesareans (or other
 things)  and it is something so special to be part of their new journey.
 
 love and the greatest respect to you all.
 

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.

2002-11-07 Thread Julie Garratt


Hi,
  He is a GP in Sydney.
   Julie'',






From: Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:36:28 +1030

so, did he become a fisherman, my daughter Rosie wants to know! (gorgeous 
story)
aviva
- Original Message -
From: Julie Garratt
To: ozmid
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:22 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.




  - Original Message -
  From: Julie Garratt
  Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 5:19 PM
  To: BMid
  Subject: Born in the sea.

  Hi all,
I think with all this cascade of intervention stuff happening. I 
would like to tell you very quickly about the birth of my dear friend. He 
is from PNG and lived by the water in a very hot climate. After his mother 
had sent her husband to get her sister to help and support her while she 
gave birth. She decided that she would go and sit on the beach where it was 
cool and the water would ease her pain. It was apparently a long way to the 
next village and when the father and the sister had returned to find that 
she wasn't labouring in their house as expected the sister was drawn by 
some unknown force down to the beach. The mother turned around and 
acknowledged the arrival of her sister just as a glistening wet baby 
dropped onto the sand. The now aunty and mother were laughing as they 
washed the sand from him in the sea water because they thought that this 
meant he was going to be a fisherman and not a farmer like his father.

  I was charmed by this birth story and I'm so glad he shared it with me. 
Its funny though because my friend doesn't seem to think its that special, 
he did say that as far as he knows babies aren't usually born in the ocean 
in his village. He also said that there were no midwives just mothers, 
friends and sisters to support women to give birth. He also said that it 
was definitely women's business then in the next breath he told me how much 
he enjoyed watching all of his babies being born here in Australia. Its a 
funny world!
 Julie'',


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Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.

2002-11-07 Thread Julie Garratt


Hi,
  He is a GP in Sydney.
   Julie'',






From: Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 20:36:28 +1030

so, did he become a fisherman, my daughter Rosie wants to know! (gorgeous 
story)
aviva
- Original Message -
From: Julie Garratt
To: ozmid
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:22 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Born in the sea.




  - Original Message -
  From: Julie Garratt
  Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2002 5:19 PM
  To: BMid
  Subject: Born in the sea.

  Hi all,
I think with all this cascade of intervention stuff happening. I 
would like to tell you very quickly about the birth of my dear friend. He 
is from PNG and lived by the water in a very hot climate. After his mother 
had sent her husband to get her sister to help and support her while she 
gave birth. She decided that she would go and sit on the beach where it was 
cool and the water would ease her pain. It was apparently a long way to the 
next village and when the father and the sister had returned to find that 
she wasn't labouring in their house as expected the sister was drawn by 
some unknown force down to the beach. The mother turned around and 
acknowledged the arrival of her sister just as a glistening wet baby 
dropped onto the sand. The now aunty and mother were laughing as they 
washed the sand from him in the sea water because they thought that this 
meant he was going to be a fisherman and not a farmer like his father.

  I was charmed by this birth story and I'm so glad he shared it with me. 
Its funny though because my friend doesn't seem to think its that special, 
he did say that as far as he knows babies aren't usually born in the ocean 
in his village. He also said that there were no midwives just mothers, 
friends and sisters to support women to give birth. He also said that it 
was definitely women's business then in the next breath he told me how much 
he enjoyed watching all of his babies being born here in Australia. Its a 
funny world!
 Julie'',


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[ozmidwifery] BRUSHING TEETH

2002-11-07 Thread Lyn Cottee

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC of twins













Dear List, 
Can
anyone tell me when a good time to start brushing a baby's teeth is? 
She's
14 months and has 9 beautiful teeth. She eats no sugary foods (unless 
they're
naturally occurring, such as in fruit) and has her own toothbrush 
and
natural toothpaste, with no SLS or fluoride in it. I've tried brushing 
on
numerous occasions and it's a lot of fun, but not that effective, as she 
finds
biting the toothbrush and swallowing the toothpaste far more 
interesting
than having a good brush. Should I not stress about it, or 
should
I work harder to establish an effective oral hygiene routine? 
I'm
asking you guys as I take the available information from toothbrush and 
toothpaste!
! manufacturers with a pinch of salt... 
Love, 
Lyn Cottee

Re: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth

2002-11-07 Thread Leigh Evans

Thanks for sharing your story Isis. What can I say
about your care and that silly OB. Hope all is going well. Leigh

- Original Message -
From:
Isis and
Andrew Caple
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:57
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Julia's
birth

After following
the discussions about interventions, prostin and in some cases ob's putting
the fear of danger into mother's minds, I wanted to share Julia's birth with
you all. After she was born, it was then that I decided to become a
midwife. I wanted to become a voice in the birthing woman's ear telling her to
trust herself, that she was doing fine and to guide/support her in the special
journey that is pregnancy/childbirth...

Julia was due
to be bornaround 18th October
2001.I was originally booked into the Geelong Hospital
Birthing Centre, but I stupidly mentioned a cyst that I had in my head and
like a hot-cake, I was shifted to the ante-natal clinic. I kept telling
them that it was just a lump of flesh and a that neurologist had given me the
all clear, but the doctors just nodded and gave the good old- 'Just in
case...'

At about 30 weeks, my blood pressure
shot through the roof. No other symptoms, just a bp of about 150/105.
Eventually at 38 weeks, the doctors decided that I should
havemy babe induced. The medicationsweren't reducingmy
BP.The date of the inducement was Monday 8th October
2001. I remember the OB who booked the
induction, telling me that because I was being induced, I would most likely
need to be put on a drip then given an epidural all in order to bring down my
blood pressure. Being a first time mother, with no female support in this
state, I nodded and accepted it. I had done my research, I knew what all these
interventions were, but because it was my body that wasn't coping, I didn't
bother questioning.

At
8amon the big day, Andrew and I
went to the hospital for the first (as it turns out- only) application of the
prostaglandin gel (or should Isay- pig
jism..LOL)at 8.30am. I was at the hospital for about 2 hours
while they externally monitored Julias heart rate and my blood pressure.They told
me to go home and get into bed and to return at about 4.30pm. So
we left the hospital, and got home at about 11.30am. I jumped
into bed to read at about midday, feeling slight period pain. The slight
period pain felt stronger and stronger, till at 1pm I decided to get up and
have a walk and a cup of tea.
Just as I thought about doing this, I heard a pop, but thought it was
from outside. I rolled out of bed and stood up, feeling 2 runs of water,
that was definitely not me weeing myself. I then realised as well that my period
pains were quite regular and painful.
They were 4 minutes apart and definitely enough to make me take
notice. We called the hospital
and were told to come in, but not to rush it. I had a piece of toast and a cup
of tea, by then the contractions were 3 minutes apart. On the way to the hospital I was
really uncomfortable. The contractions were 2 minutes apart and quite painful
by the time we got to the hospital at about 2pm. They monitored Julia, she was
fine and my blood pressure was stable.

They moved me into the
birthing room at about 3pm and I immediately went into the shower, on the
roller ball thingy. They
dida VE and I was 3 cm dilated at
3.30pm. The next hour went like a
blur. I remember asking for
pethidine, being told to wait and that I was doing really well just breathing
and rocking through the contractions.
I remember I looked at one of the mid-wives and asked for some
gas. I was on the verge of
freaking out with the pain (Andrew has told me that I actually screamed) She had me lie over a bean bag with
pillows heaped on top of it and showed me how to use the gas. I had the choice
of the mouthpiece, or the mask. I chose the mask. I remember she told me to make the
machine rattle. I made it almost explode J I could feel each contraction coming,
getting harder and lasting longer.When the contraction started, I started sucking gas
and rocking around.The gas removed my sense of time, but
left me aware of thecontractions.
I could hear people talking and I could talk back, but I was really in my own
world.

At about 4.30
(apparently) I yelled that I needed to push. My contractions were finishing with an
extreme urge to push or should I say, an
extreme urge to do a BIG poo...
The midwives told me that I couldnt push, to use the gas and breathe
through that urge and that the doctor was on the way.That was hard trying to stop my body doing what it
needed to do. Well- the
doctor looked inside and said, yep, she is ready to go, 10 cm dilated and that
Julias head was waiting to come out.I remember
thinking-'I told you so!!' So then

Re: [ozmidwifery] registration

2002-11-07 Thread Mary Murphy




Different states have different rules. If one wants to register as a 
midwife only in W.a., prior registration in another state which does allow it is 
necessary. Direct entry Midwives who need to work in W.A. have to be 
registered in the other state before they can get registration here via the 
mutual obligations legislation which allows cross border transfer of 
qualifications.as midwives. MM

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  elizabeth mcalpine 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 7:07 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  registration
  
  Marilyn, Are you also a nurse? 
  Because when I told the Vic Nurses Board that I only wanted to register as a 
  midwife, they told me that it was not possible.
  I asked about the new midwives - those graduates 
  without nursing- I was told they'd think of that then.
  Liz Mc
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Aviva 
Sheb'a 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 4:17 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
registration

Hearty, hearty CONGRATULATIONS, Marilyn!!! 
Well done! May you assist women and babies -- and fathers --in 
beautiful births for many years to come!
Love,
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Marilyn 
Kleidon 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] registration
It seems I have a few of options re work (non of which are 
caseload - laterI hope) which I am mulling over; BUT my big news at the 
moment is:OK!! you have it hot off the internet... I am registered 
to practise as anon-nurse, midwife only, in Queensland, Australia as of 
November 7th, 2002.You can see this for yourself by going 
to.www.qnc.qld.gov.au

Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

2002-11-07 Thread Marilyn Kleidon

Leanne : how did you get this up and running?? It sounds amazing and needs
to be duplicated (multiplicated). marilyn
- Original Message -
From: leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

Hi Vicki,
Yes, I'm still here battling the archaic controlling attitudes of
obstetricians and hospital beaurocracy. Because of the insurance debacle the
local independent midwives can no longer practice so they are refering women
to me as I am the only person able to provide free woman-centred pregnancy
care. As a result about 20% of our clients are non-indigenous and these
include professional women such as midwives, registered nurses and a
naturopath. It's rather ironic I think that the lowest socio-economic group
in the state, that is aboriginal women, are the only ones receiving the best
evidence based care.
All the best, Leanne.

From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:17:44 +1000

I went to visit Leanne in my past life as 'the travelling midwife'
wonderful work going on!
Hi Leanne and glad to 'see'you here! Vicki

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of leanne wynne
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

Hi All,
I run a Maternity and Women's Health Service within an Aboriginal
Community
Controlled Health Service in rural Victoria. I have a terrific manager
who
allows me to work autonomously so long as I keep him informed. An
Aboriginal
Maternal Health worker and I work as a team and we provide 24hour/day on

call for those in labour, (or any other crisis) antenatal care, either
in
the client's own home or in the Health Service, labour support at home
and/or in the local hospital (the local midwives are wonderfully
supportive
of our service) and postnatal care. We work whatever hours our women
need
us. We dont get paid for 'on-call' or 'overtime' but are able to take
'time-off-in-lieu' when things are quiet.
In my opinion if midwives aim to provide continuity of care then 8 hour
shifts are not an option.
Leanne.

 From: Debby M [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:06:24 +

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Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences

PennyB
Yes, yes, yes,  I think all of us.   In the past, I've come home hundreds of
times shocked to the core, angry, distressed, and totally traumatized.  And
yup, feeling completely and utterly powerless.
THAT'S WHY IT HAS TO CHANGE!!!
But no, there is some slight improvementand it'll get better.
Sometimes, I think I'm using the list too much - some days I'm so disturbed.
Some days I can think of nothing else but how to change things...och.
where's ma whisky??  No, take a few deep breaths instead...
love to all
Liz Mc
- Original Message -
From: Dr Penelope A Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences


 I wonder how many midwives have also felt violated and traumatised (but
not
 been able to find expression) for having to partake in care of women in
 hospital that has trauma as part of it - as a witness? I'm reflecting on
 some really bad vibes I can remember and the (?) shame/guilt/shock (?) at
 having to be witness to some of this and yet not in control of the person
 who is perpetuating it. I'll have to give this some thought - it is really
 disturbing me - may be an explanation for some tensions I carry.

 PennyB.

 On 7/11/02 7:21 PM, Margie Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  My heart goes out to everyone who is sharing or has had soul and body
hurting
  births. It is not ok.  And must change. I have had the honour of
supporting a
  number of women who have previously been traumatised by caesareans (or
other
  things)  and it is something so special to be part of their new journey.
 
  love and the greatest respect to you all.
 

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?

2002-11-07 Thread leanne wynne

Hi Marilyn,
The secret to our success is the fact that my manager didn't put any 
restrictions on my practice. He merely said: You're the midwife. Go and do 
what you gotta do. I work with an Aborigianl Health worker who is part of 
the local community so we had the contacts within the Aboriginal community 
and because I had worked at the Mildura Base for 5 years prior I had the 
contacts at the hospital. The midwives at the Base Hospital are a very 
pro-active lot who have been a terific support when I have come up against 
the frequent obstetric opposition. I have no job description at all and that 
suits me just fine as I function within the Midwives Code of Practice. We 
have 2 GP's here at the Health Service who bulk-bill and they support me as 
far as signing pathology requests and ultrasound referrals. I am 
investigating the possibility of attaining Nurse Practitoner status so that 
I can refer and prescribe within my own area of expertise.
So that's all there is to it really.
All the best. Leanne.

From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 09:36:37 -0800

Leanne : how did you get this up and running?? It sounds amazing and needs
to be duplicated (multiplicated). marilyn
- Original Message -
From: leanne wynne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?


Hi Vicki,
Yes, I'm still here battling the archaic controlling attitudes of
obstetricians and hospital beaurocracy. Because of the insurance debacle 
the
local independent midwives can no longer practice so they are refering 
women
to me as I am the only person able to provide free woman-centred pregnancy
care. As a result about 20% of our clients are non-indigenous and these
include professional women such as midwives, registered nurses and a
naturopath. It's rather ironic I think that the lowest socio-economic group
in the state, that is aboriginal women, are the only ones receiving the 
best
evidence based care.
All the best, Leanne.


From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:17:44 +1000

I went to visit Leanne in my past life as 'the travelling midwife'
wonderful work going on!
Hi Leanne and glad to 'see'you here! Vicki

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery;acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of leanne wynne
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 11:17 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?


Hi All,
I run a Maternity and Women's Health Service within an Aboriginal
Community
Controlled Health Service in rural Victoria. I have a terrific manager
who
allows me to work autonomously so long as I keep him informed. An
Aboriginal
Maternal Health worker and I work as a team and we provide 24hour/day on

call for those in labour, (or any other crisis) antenatal care, either
in
the client's own home or in the Health Service, labour support at home
and/or in the local hospital (the local midwives are wonderfully
supportive
of our service) and postnatal care. We work whatever hours our women
need
us. We dont get paid for 'on-call' or 'overtime' but are able to take
'time-off-in-lieu' when things are quiet.
In my opinion if midwives aim to provide continuity of care then 8 hour
shifts are not an option.
Leanne.


 From: Debby M [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?
 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 07:06:24 +
 


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Re: [ozmidwifery] BRUSHING TEETH









  
  As a mother and mothercraft nurse I tend to at this age recommend the 
  bite and play method.
  A good routine is more appropriate than "good brushing" so if she 
  brushes/plays/bites every night before bed and can see you do it too then 
  god oral hygiene will follow.Childrenlearn best from 
  immitation and a lot of people forget to brush their teeth in front of 
  their children - really we must let them see us do it too.
  Make a point of doing your teeth and letting her watch so she can see 
  what you are doing and how.
  They learn how to feed themselves through biting and playing with the 
  spoon and watching Mum and Dad and others eat so the same applies to 
  brushing teeth. They learn through seeing it done and just being 
  given the opportunity.
  At about 2 yrs i start to ask if I can help a bit and get a few quick 
  brushes in to actually clean before the bite occurs - it becomes a bit of 
  a game between biting and brushing. Then as the child gets older and 
  learns you talk about how clean the teeth are etc...it is all just a 
  progression and very like the progression of feeding. My three yr 
  old has almost got it now he looks in the mirror and tried hard to go 
  round and round at the front and then does the top and bottom and we do it 
  otgether with me instructing him while he does it. If he has been 
  eating chocolate or somethign I will ask to have a turn and he generally 
  lets me.
  
  At first you feed an they play with the spoon then they feed but you 
  assit and soon enough they are doing it all by themselves. So don't 
  panic - it will happen if you set the example and provide the opportunity 
  it happens!
  
  Good Luck
  Don't stress
  Rhonda.
  
  
  ---Original Message---
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, November 
  08, 2002 11:48:08
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  BRUSHING TEETH
  
  
  
  
  Dear 
  List, Can 
  anyone tell me when a good time to start brushing a baby's teeth is? 
  She's 
  14 months and has 9 beautiful teeth. She eats no sugary foods (unless 
  they're 
  naturally occurring, such as in fruit) and has her own toothbrush 
  and 
  natural toothpaste, with no SLS or fluoride in it. I've tried brushing 
  on 
  numerous occasions and it's a lot of fun, but not that effective, as she 
  finds 
  biting the toothbrush and swallowing the toothpaste far more 
  interesting 
  than having a good brush. Should I not stress about it, or 
  should 
  I work harder to establish an effective oral hygiene routine? 
  I'm 
  asking you guys as I take the available information from toothbrush and 
  toothpaste! 
  ! manufacturers with a pinch of salt... Love, 
  Lyn 
  Cottee
  





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




 IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - 
Click 
Here

Re: [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth









  Hi Isis,
  I am also in Geelong - would you like to contact me off list.
  Wonder if we had the same ob.
  Regards
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
  
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, November 
  08, 2002 12:01:18
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Julia's birth
  
  Thanks for sharing your story Isis. What can 
  I say about your care and that silly OB. Hope all is going well. 
  Leigh
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Isis 
and Andrew Caple 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 
7:57 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Julia's 
birth

After 
following the discussions about interventions, prostin and in some cases 
ob's putting the fear of danger into mother's minds, I wanted to share 
Julia's birth with you all. After she was born, it was then that I 
decided to become a midwife. I wanted to become a voice in the birthing 
woman's ear telling her to trust herself, that she was doing fine and to 
guide/support her in the special journey that is 
pregnancy/childbirth...


Julia was 
due to be bornaround 18th 
October 2001.I was originally booked into the Geelong 
Hospital Birthing Centre, but I stupidly mentioned a cyst that I had in 
my head and like a hot-cake, I was shifted to the ante-natal 
clinic. I kept telling them that it was just a lump of flesh and a 
that neurologist had given me the all clear, but the doctors just nodded 
and gave the good old- 'Just in case...' 


At about 30 weeks, my blood 
pressure shot through the roof. No other symptoms, just a bp of 
about 150/105. Eventually at 38 weeks, the doctors decided that I 
should havemy babe 
induced. The 
medicationsweren't reducingmy BP.The date of 
the inducement was Monday 8th October 2001. I remember the OB who booked the induction, 
telling me that because I was being induced, I would most likely need to 
be put on a drip then given an epidural all in order to bring down my 
blood pressure. Being a first time mother, with no female support in 
this state, I nodded and accepted it. I had done my research, I knew 
what all these interventions were, but because it was my body that 
wasn't coping, I didn't bother 
questioning.

At 
8amon the big day, Andrew 
and I went to the hospital for the first (as it turns out- only) 
application of the prostaglandin gel (or 
should Isay- pig jism..LOL)at 8.30am. I was at the 
hospital for about 2 hours while they externally monitored Julias heart 
rate and my blood pressure.They told me to go home and get into bed and to 
return at about 4.30pm. So we left the hospital, and got 
home at about 11.30am. I jumped into bed to read at about midday, 
feeling slight period pain. The slight period pain felt stronger and 
stronger, till at 1pm I decided to get up and have a walk and a cup of 
tea. Just as I thought 
about doing this, I heard a pop, but thought it was from outside. I 
rolled out of bed and stood up, feeling 2 runs of water, that was 
definitely not me weeing myself. 
I then realised as well that my period pains were quite regular 
and painful. They were 4 
minutes apart and definitely enough to make me take notice. We called the hospital and were 
told to come in, but not to rush it. I had a piece of toast and a cup of 
tea, by then the contractions were 3 minutes apart. On the way to the hospital I was 
really uncomfortable. The contractions were 2 minutes apart and quite 
painful by the time we got to the hospital at about 2pm. They monitored 
Julia, she was fine and my blood pressure was 
stable.

They moved 
me into the birthing room at about 3pm and I immediately went into the 
shower, on the roller ball thingy. 
They dida VE and I 
was 3 cm dilated at 3.30pm. 
The next hour went like a blur. I remember asking for pethidine, 
being told to wait and that I was doing really well just breathing and 
rocking through the contractions. 
I remember I looked at one of the mid-wives and asked for some 
gas. I was on the verge of 
freaking out with the pain (Andrew has told me that I actually 
screamed) She had me lie 
over a bean bag with pillows heaped on top of it and showed me how to 
use the gas. I had the choice of the mouthpiece, or the mask. I chose 
the mask. I

Re: [ozmidwifery] another horror story

2002-11-07 Thread Andrea Bilcliff

Title: Message



Yesterday Iheard about a woman who birthed recently. Shearrived 
at hospitalalready 5cm dilated afterjust having a'show' at 
home. She was pressured into having an ARMto 'get things moving along' 
(?!?!). This was her first baby and he was bornwith the aid of forceps 
(after a failedvacuum extraction)justfour hourslater for 
failure to progress! There was no fetal distress prior to the birth but her 
babyneeded resuscitation andwent 'battered  bruised' 
tothe nursery.She was told that if her baby had gone to term (he was 
10 days 'early') he would have died because the cord was around his neck! The 
womandeveloped an infection and is having breastfeeding problems.
Needless to say shewants a homebirth if there is a next time.
Vicki's right...it is tragic : (
Andrea B

- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Vicki Chan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:37 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] another horror 
  story
  
  A woman I spoke to yesterday spoke of her 
  starstruck obstetrician being overly excited about the celeb status of her 
  husband...her labour was rocking along beautifully but it didnt look 
  like hubby would make it for the birth...the ob arranged for her to have an 
  epidural which rendered her incapacitated when her husband finally made it... 
  no problem! that's why God invented Vacuum Extractors!! Her first babe 
  she'd managed to birth unaided. Tragic!
  
  We could (and will, no doubt) go 
  on!

Re: [ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary?

2002-11-07 Thread Andrea Bilcliff

Title: Message



Vicki,
Last year Helen Ireland was alsolooking for 
this article. We didn't have much luck then but she may have found it since so 
I'm sending her a copy of this email too.
Andrea

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vicki Chan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 1:20 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Is it really 
  necessary?
  
  Dear all... anyone 
  recall the research many years ago that had half the subjects ask the question 
  "is it really necessary" when faced with the prospect of intervention.? 
  Astounding changes to the outcome of birth. A reference would be 
  great!
  Vicki

Re: [ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary?

2002-11-07 Thread Gabielle Williams

Title: Message



Hi Vicki,
I heard Andrea in 1994 guide the group in "Why are 
you doing this and is really necessary" and the example she gave was x-raying a 
child's possibly broken toe. 
Why would you x-ray a toe, to find out if it was 
broken, then what would you do? Not much but we would know.
To day I offer this suggestion to all pregnant 
women I have contact with in clinics or classes.
I am sure Andrea will remember the 
research.

Cheers

Gabrielle

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vicki Chan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:20 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Is it really 
  necessary?
  
  Dear all... anyone 
  recall the research many years ago that had half the subjects ask the question 
  "is it really necessary" when faced with the prospect of intervention.? 
  Astounding changes to the outcome of birth. A reference would be 
  great!
  Vicki

Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences

2002-11-07 Thread Dr Penelope A Barrett

Marilyn,

What can I say ... 


I am thinking and reflecting more on this since my last post - only a couple
of hours ago - there are so many 'horror' stories inside me (amongst a lot
of nice ones too) that they must have some effect on my psyche. During the
midwives' action research group (MARG) conversations when I was doing my
PhD, one of the themes in our women's talk was 'horror stories' - also it
was one of the themes/conversation threads that was part of the mothers'
group that we (MARG) set up for mothers to talk with each other. Here is a
tiny extract from one of the MARG meeting conversations where we would
reflect on our experiences as facilitator at the Early Mothering Groups.
Sorry - it's a bit long. The formatted version is in my PhD thesis. Women's
words make up 5 full chapters (well the text version of their words
transcribed from tapes). Pseudonyms are used.

Penny.

From Chapter 11 (pp. 385-386) of
Barrett, P. A. 1998, 'Early Mothering - A Shared Experience: Feminist Action
Research with Midwives and Mothers', unpublished PhD thesis, Southern Cross
University, Lismore, New South Wales.

 Mothers¹ horror stories
 
 Facilitators needed to be strong in themselves to be able to listen to
 mothers¹ horror stories¹ without becoming defensive. We gave mothers
 permission to talk about anything, and some mothers¹ birth stories included
 unpleasant feedback about hospital carers¹ practices.
 
 Didi...we do a lot of apologising -- [Yes.] in our mothers¹ groups.
 [laughing]
 DianaOh, don¹t we! For everyone. [Mm. Mm.] [Yeah, yeah, yeah.] (We)
apologise 
 for the way they¹re treated in...¹G¹ ward -- apologise for everything. [Yeah]
 LindaI was just telling the group about our lady last time with her
terrible 
 experience...
 Diana...Oh, oh. In the mothering group? [Yeah.] Oh, that was terrible!
[Mm] 
 It was terrible. -- [Mm] -- -- -- [Mm] -- -- It was terrible that she felt
 so...negative about doing anything about it. [Mm] That nothing would
 change...But how awful that -- I couldn¹t even remember which horror story --
 there¹s so many horror stories...[Group. Yeah. Mm.]
 UnaThe lady just said she had a horrible time.
 DianaI know...you hear so many horror stories, you just think, Gosh! It
 shouldn¹t be happening¹.
 
 Laughter, crying and catharsis
 
 One way that mothers dealt with some of the horrible experiences they had was
 to laugh. In the extract below, the theme of laughter as catharsis reinforces
 previous comments about mothers¹ need for a space to let go¹ of their
 emotions and cry or laugh about whatever they choose to without someone
 passing judgement on them for being distasteful.
 
 JuneHas anyone noticed that women laugh, a lot, about really awful things
 that they¹ve gone through? [Mm] [Yeah]...Does anyone get that in a group? --
 -- ...You know...crack a joke about -- forceps or some things that¹ve gone
 half way up to their -- [Mm] you know. And then they laugh about it. I found
 that. Kind of in a sarcastic way. A funny way. -- -- Sometimes I think it¹s a
 way of coping.
 BronteYeah, I think it is, too. [Mm]
 BettyYes, and they¹ll sometimes say they feel -- I had one group
that...they 
 weren¹t complaining about staff. It was just how things had gone wrong with
 their birth, (the birth differed) from what they expected. Like one lady had a
 prolapsed cord and...she had to have an episiotomy in a hurry, and you know,
 the baby was flat (cyanosed) and -- another one ended up having a blood
 transfusion, and...you know, [Mm] that¹s devastating to them today, but when
 they all talked about it...and they did have a bit of a laugh, they felt it
 all -- it helped -- it relieved the situation, you know. [mm]
 JuneThat¹s interesting.
 BettyYeah, it was -- it was really good the way...[Mm mm] it got it off
their 
 chest...I did write it down in this story that day, that everybody had had
 such awful experiences from what they expected to be a wonderful experience
 the way they read about (it)  in books and everything. [Mm] Nobody told them
 about these things that could happen...



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Re: [ozmidwifery] Is it really necessary?

Title: Message



Hi Andrea,
Post it if you get it please.
love Liz Mc

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Andrea Bilcliff 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Cc: Helen Ireland 
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 12:34 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Is it really 
  necessary?
  
  Vicki,
  Last year Helen Ireland was alsolooking for 
  this article. We didn't have much luck then but she may have found it since so 
  I'm sending her a copy of this email too.
  Andrea
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Vicki Chan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 1:20 
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Is it really 
necessary?

Dear all... 
anyone recall the research many years ago that had half the subjects ask the 
question "is it really necessary" when faced with the prospect of 
intervention.? Astounding changes to the outcome of birth. A reference 
would be great!
Vicki

Re: [ozmidwifery] Obstetric Perception - Your thoughts?