date:20030615

Arnold wrote:

I can't believe that Pentax will leave its 35mm system like that, especially with the 
1.5x factor of the digital sensors. More extreme wide-angle lenses must eventually be 
coming. hopefully WITH aperture ring, so that they are usable on older cameras, 
too, and in * or Limited quality.


REPLY:
They have promised more lenses in the fall. This in their press release and also 
circulating in the rumor mill. The press release says it is lenses suited for the 
*istD something I think means wide angles. Some PDML member heard at PMA that there 
are both a 16/2.8 and a 16-35/2.8 coming. They both makes sense when Pentyax is 
manufacturing not full frame DSLR's. Time will tell.


Pål

Re: Tripod question

Ramesh wrote:

I am planning replace my existing tripd with corbon
fibre tripod, so was thinking about the ball heads. 
I have few doubts about them.

Are there any advantages in using ballhead instead of
pan-tilt style ones?
Which is more stable?


REPLY:

I suggest you look into the Berlebach wooden tripods before you buy an expensive 
carbon fiber tripod (www.berlebach.de). They are just as sturdy as the carbon fibers 
at a certain weight point. If you want really ultralight tripods you have no choice 
but buy carbon fiber but I don't recommend tripods weighting less than about 2kg cause 
they simply don't work except as emergencie cases where any tripod is better than no 
tripod. 
Light ballheads are sturdier than light pan/tilt heads simply because theres more 
material going into a pan/tilt head. The advantage with a ball head is that it is 
faster in use if you want to follow action. The thing with pan/tilt heads is that it 
is possible to adjust only one angle at the time precisely. This make you able to 
straighten the horizon without affecting the other angles. Typically you compose and 
frame a shot then figuring out that the horizon isn't totally level. Such adjustment 
can be a pain on ball heads unless you have very good eye/arm coordination. 
A pan/tilt head is more stable than a ball head as long as the heads are heavy, say, 
more than 1kg. For lighter heads the ballheads wins in general. Eg. you won't find a 
pan/tilt head more sturdy than my Velbon PH-273QL at the weight of 455g. 
Ball vs pan/tilt is mostly a question of taste when it comes to usage.

Pål

Re: Quote of the Day

Bruce quoted:

From photo.net:

Can anyone think of a single valid reason why a new lens mount should be necessary? 
Ask Canon or Minolta. They did such a stunt and made a lot of business sense.

-- Pål Jensen

snipIf some of you are old enough you might recall that Pentax also had to 
change their lens mount system in the mid to late 1970s snip

-- Ellis Vener , June 13, 2003; 01:49 P.M. Eastern

I know Len knows who Ellis is.



REPLY:
I believe a new Nikon lens mount may be a smart move. They can keep smaller than 35mm 
sensors for the their current line up + film being able to offer competitive DSLR and 
competing head on with Canon on price. They could then make a new system for larger 
CCD's; it could even be larger than 35mm and thereby beat Canon in absolute quality 
consistently. A new digital only system could be taylored for the its intended use; 
digital.
Pentax is in a good position. They have three slr platform that all can be converted 
to digital in due course. 

Pål

Re: Quote of the Day

And as a serious comment. Canon does a lot of business because they always have the 
right product at the right time, with the right technology and performance, not 
because they changed camera mounts. 


REPLY:

Really? So Canon EOS has nothing to do with the lens mount?
The technology and performance would have been impossible without the mount changes.

Pål

Re: Quote of the Day

Caveman:
Minolta also changed mounts, but that did not prevent them to be now in such a poor 
shape that they're looking for a buyer for the company (I hear they're in talks with 
Konica).


REPLY:
Minolta changed mount and sold 2.000.000 AF cameras of one single, expensive model in 
2 years. Nobody have managed to repeat that performance since.

Pål

Re: Pentax dropping M Shift, A 15/3.5, ...

Collin wrote:

Given how technology changes and how fabrication needs
would seem to require some consistency ...
I wonder how many of these were made all in one batch
with the expectation that they'd be sold over time.
Perhaps make 500 (in whole or parts awaiting later assembly)
knowing that the stock will last 15 years.
Seems practical.


REPLY:
Early on they may have manufactured the A lenses in batches. However, the last decade 
or so they have been hand-built from a depleting parts bin on order. Of course they 
may have been some stock left of assembled lenses but this is the general picture. 
Even the current lenses, like the super telephotos, are made on order. In Japan theres 
is one month waiting time if you order, say, an FA* 600/4. They make it for you on 
order. They may not even have parts for it but let the subcontractors deliver the 
parts on order.
Modern camera manufacturing is pretty much like car manufacturing. The subcontractors 
delivers the parts when they are needed - as close as possible to the date the 
equipment is being assembled. Eg. every major part assembly (the circuitry board, the 
chassis, the prism, the housing etc) on my old 645N have a manufacturing date printed 
on it. They are all within 2 weeks of each other. In fact, only one part are two weeks 
off. The rest is within three days.

Pål

Re: Pentax dropping M Shift, A 15/3.5, ...

Caveman:

They're not taken seriously there either. Otherwise we had heard of a third-party rush 
to provide digital backs for the 645 or 67.


REPLY:
There have been such a rush even if you haven't heard about it. I know people who 
have used a digital back for the 645N(II). The problem is that Pentax haven't 
committed to it. Those 3D party vendors don't start manufacturing of the back until 
the camera manufacturers agree about commitment. I don't know if Pentax have by now 
commited to it; they hadn't a few months back. Pentax have never been interested in 
film backs for thier MF systems. Perhaps they are not interested in digital backs 
either? Perhaps they rather release an 645D?

Pål

Re: Exposure

Doug wrote:

Why the hell does it matter to you if Paal shoots to his satisfation? Does it affect 
your photography even a little bit?


REPLY:
The modus operandi is the following: He doesn't use equipment where you can set 
exposure consistently within 1/3s. When I say that I want such possibilities on my 
equipment I must want it  for non-valid or suspect reason because the person in 
question doesn't use it. For the same reasons we heard for years that people using AF 
were snapshooters from the same source. He doesn't use it. Hence, there can't be valid 
reason for anyone else to use it either.

Pål

Re: Exposure

William wrote:

I actually quite envy Pål. It would be so much easier to only have to
toss images because I can't compose a picture worth looking at.
I have no problem with his assertion that his images are always
perfectly exposed.
He uses modern equipment that is well calibrated and I expect he knows
how to meter a scene to take advantage of the metering technology that
he uses.
All he is saying is that he is able to meter a scene to within 1/3 of a
stop.


REPLY:

Your last sentence hit the spot. I pointed out days ago that whatever mistakes I do is 
MY fault, not the film, the camera, the processing whatever. My images are always 
exposed the way I wanted them to be within 1/3s. 
I'm claiming I want to able to meter and set exposure within 1/3s. I'm able to get 
exposure I want within 1/3s regardless of that exposure might be. I want to be able to 
set the exposure for, say, the grass over there at + 1/3 and I can do that precisely 
and consistently. Being able to assign tonalities in the field is a question about 
experience. The meter and camera is never wrong. 

Pål

Re: My Magnum Day

Nah, Tom, stay where you are.

You can always come into the city for such events (although, as I said, I
didn't plan yesterday, I just happened to walk by and go in).

OTOH, I was awakened by a gunshot last night, at around 11:45.  That hasn't
happened in about 2 years now...  Must've been someone fooling around,
because no screaming or police sirens followed.

I'll switch places with ya anyday...  vbg

cheers,
frank

T Rittenhouse wrote:

 Just the universe trying to balance things out. Sometimes you guys make me
 wish I lived in a big city again.

 Ciao,
 Graywolf
 http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto

 - Original Message -
 From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 7:05 PM
 Subject: My Magnum Day

  So, I'm walking down Queen Street West, here in Toronto, Leica (woo hoo)
  over my shoulder, ready to snap interesting passersby, and I walk past
  one of the more noteworthy local art galleries, Stephen Bulger Gallery.
  I notice a photgraph in the window, and the word Magnum under it.  Of
  course I entered, and it turns out they were displaying the works of
  several Magnum artists, including HCB, Capa, McCurry, Arnold, and
  several others.
 
  Holy Crap!  I'm in heaven!  I'm looking at veritable icons of reportage,
  in glorious black and white - okay, about two or three were colour,
  including McCurry's Afghan Girl - which by the way, as an aprox. 11x20
  print, shows those eyes with devastating clarity.
 
  I must have good taste, because I quickly glanced at the price list, and
  the one I wanted the most (HCB's boy holding two wine bottles - I don't
  know the real title) was the most expensive, at about $8000 Cdn.  Most
  of the rest were going for around $2000 to $3000 Cdn.  Sadly, they
  wouldn't take a cheque...  vbg
 
  To top it all off, today was the last day of the exhibit!  I'd read
  about it months ago, then forgot about it.  Glad I happened by today.
  It was at once an inspriing, yet humbling experience.
 
  regards,
  frank
 
  --
  What a senseless waste of human life
  -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
 
 

--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: Exposure

I love this place!  vbg

ciao,
frank

Caveman wrote:

 Doug Brewer wrote:
  Why the hell does it matter to you if Paal shoots to his satisfation?

 I actually don't care. I just objected to some pompous unsubstantial claims.

 cheers,
 caveman

--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: non-A lenses and the *ist (D)

2003-06-15 Thread Heiko Hamann

Hi Arnold,

on 15 Jun 03 you wrote in pentax.list:

But OTOH you can use your old lenses better than every  Nikon D100 or
Canon D60/10D user can do.
Well, I wouldn't consider buying into Nikon or Canon. However, getting
a 4000 dpi slide scanner for me is an alternative to buying a DSLR.

That's an option, too. A friend of mine uses the Nikon Coolscan 8000ED  
for scanning his Pentax 67 slides with 4000dpi. There is also a cheaper  
version for 35mm slides, only. The results are great and there is simply  
no digital camera that can compete. But it takes more time and you don't  
have the advantage of the immediate picture control. Because of this my  
friend has combined his MF setup with an Optio S ;-)

If you want the trick to work well, you would need another hole in
the mount of the lens so that it would have a 2nd locking position.

necessary to use them safely - yes - then I would do that. I think
this is far better than doing without those lenses or even changing to

Well, I might do so, too, if there was no alternative, however I prefer
to first ask Pentax whether they really want me to damage my K- and M
series lenses so that I can use them on the *ist D

That might be the best option - wait and see. Did you contact Pentax  
concerning this problem?

[manual mode modification]
I do not think that this is a big modification. Actually, the DOF
preview position of the main switch already activates the illumination
of the extrenal LCD display of the camera - it could switch on and off
the meter just as easily.

Sounds easy, but I'm afraid that there might be too much ifs for  
realising it afterwards. If they would have asked us earlier..=:-[

Cheers, Heiko

Re: Quote of the Day

2003-06-15 Thread Lon Williamson

What was it about the old Canon mount?
Too narrow?  Too far from (or too near to)
the film plane?  Have Nikon and Pentax been
able to keep cobbling along because their mount
dimensions were more generous?  Somewhere this
must have been written about, but I've never
seen an article or discussion.
-Lon

Michael Perham wrote:
Bruce Rubenstein wrote:

From photo.net:

Can anyone think of a single valid reason why a new lens mount should
be necessary? 
Ask Canon or Minolta. They did such a stunt and made a lot of business
sense.
-- Pål Jensen


Actually, when Canon changed their mount, it was ostensibly to accommodate
new and upcoming technology; today, Pentax and Nikon are  not making that
assertion.  They are simply changing the mount to reduce manufacturing cost
by allowing electronic control of the aperture as opposed to a mechanical
control, which is more expensive to produce.
Now, I dnk whether or not Canon's rational was an accurate statement or
simply a spin to appease the owners of old FD class lenses and in fact was
just a way of forced obsolescence of the old lenses.  At least with Nikon
and Pentax old lenses can still be used, although with reduced
functionality.
That's how I see it anywaycheers!  Mike.

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Steve Desjardins

In VA, if you have sex with a person who is sufficiently incapacitated
that is considered rape.  We warn male students about this all the time.
 If you are at a party and a women is really drunk, then don't have sex
with her even if she appears to be willing.   If a court/jury decides
that you took advantage of a sufficiently impaired state, then legally
it's rape.  I'm not making a moral point here, just a practical one. 
The difficulty is always that the guy is also usually drunk, but if a
male can perform then it's difficult legally to demonstrate
impairment.

I know I may sound a little cold-hearted about this, but I'm usually
trying to protect young people from making stupid mistakes and sometimes
you have to scare the hell out of them.  I don't really know enough
about the Shell case to make any specific comment.  


Steven Desjardins
Department of Chemistry
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, VA 24450
(540) 458-8873
FAX: (540) 458-8878
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: OT - URGENT - where on web ?

2003-06-15 Thread Kevin Waterson

This one time, at band camp, Anand DHUPKAR [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi folks,
 
 Any safe places/services on the web where I can upload data files from my 
 hard drive as temporary backup ?  For some reason, my computer has become a 
 mess and worst part is my CD writer is not working.
 

How much roon do you need?

Kind regards
Kevin


-- 
 __  
(_ \ 
 _) )            
|  /  / _  ) / _  | / ___) / _  )
| |  ( (/ / ( ( | |( (___ ( (/ / 
|_|   \) \_||_| \) \)
Kevin Waterson
Port Macquarie, Australia

Re: a thought on marketing philosophy

2003-06-15 Thread Steve Desjardins

6 MP is simply good enough for a large number of folks.  Sure, the price
of higher MP chips will come down, but 6 MP will be cheaper and DSLR
prices have a long way to fall to compete with film.  This a the 35 vs.
MF argument resurrected.  The biggest problem with 6 MP is the wide
angle problem.


Steven Desjardins
Department of Chemistry
Washington and Lee University
Lexington, VA 24450
(540) 458-8873
FAX: (540) 458-8878
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: non-A lenses and the *ist (D)

2003-06-15 Thread Arnold Stark

Hi Heiko,

Well, I might do so, too, if there was no alternative, however I prefer
to first ask Pentax whether they really want me to damage my K- and M
series lenses so that I can use them on the *ist D

That might be the best option - wait and see. Did you contact Pentax
concerning this problem?

Well, I have asked Pentax about the k-mount compatibilty problem, and
there may even come an answer, but I did not yet ask them about drilling
holes into lens mounts. I hope they render superflous asking such
question

Sounds easy, but I'm afraid that there might be too much ifs for realising it afterwards. If they would have asked us earlier..=:-[

I insist that a software update should easily cure the problem. The way
the *ist and the *ist D are programmed now, in aperture priority mode
(which really is an open aperture mode when there is a K or M lens
attached) the light meter and the viewfinder information are switched
OFF while DOF preview is activated and ON while DOF preview is not
activated. It should be quite quite easy to have it just the other way
around in aperture priority mode or manual mode: Light meter OFF when
DOF preview is not activated and ON when DOF preview is activated.

I do not know wheter Pentax is flexible AND interested enough to change
the camera software at this point. I hope they are, and I hope that they
listen to us. Long-time Pentax enthusiasts still using K- and M-series
lenses (and cameras!) may only be a minority among the potential buyers
of the *ist D, but I would say that we are not negligible, and if we
like the camera, we can convince lots of others to buy the camera, too.

I am quite sure that Pentax is not that flexible enough to change the
camera hardware at this point, so there is no hope for the *ist D being
fully compatibe with the k-mount. However, Pentax probably is already
developing the next DSLR, as digital production cycles are short. If
they hear us and Japanese Pentax-enthusiasts now, maybe the DSLR after
the *ist D will have full compatibilty with the k-mount?

Arnold

Re: Dark Prints?

2003-06-15 Thread Thomas Haller

Hi Caveman,

 I suggest to repeat the test using slide film...

I am in the process of doing that, I have some Kodak 100G loaded in 
both cameras. I'll see how they come out.

I'd have posted an example but I have no access to a flatbed scanner, 
just a slide scanner (not mine, but I can occasionally use it).

Thanks for the response! - THaller

Re: OT - URGENT - where on web ?

2003-06-15 Thread Anthony Farr

What about a second hard drive, instead?  The same happened to me recently,
and I had several weeks of photos that I hadn't burned to CD.
Coincidentally my hard drive was getting uncomfortably full (above 70%) so I
took the opportunity to install an additional hard drive.

It was such an easy job I'd recommend that anyone could do it themselves.  I
set up the new drive as the 'master drive' and put Windows on it (the
Windows on the old drive was completely dysfunctional).  Then, when I had a
useable OS, I fetched the files I wanted to keep from the old drive (now the
'slave drive').  I completely reformatted it then, to rid it of the corrupt
version of Windows,  but left it with no OS, and now use it to store files
only , no software at all.  That way if Windows goes bad again (and
experience tells me it eventually will) my files will be intact on a
separate drive.

It took me one phone call to get instructions and shopping advice from a
relative,  one short shopping trip to get the new hardware, and a couple of
hours to perform the 'implant'.  It's not that long a job but I took it
slowly.  I found I also needed reducer brackets to get the hard drive (made
to fit a floppy bay) into my spare bay (made to receive a CD/DVD drive).

Some day, when and if I learn how, I may set it up as a dual-boot system,
with my original Win98 on one drive and Win2000 on the other.

regards,
Anthony Farr

- Original Message - 
From: Anand DHUPKAR [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Hi folks,

 Any safe places/services on the web where I can upload data files from my
 hard drive as temporary backup ?  For some reason, my computer has become
a
 mess and worst part is my CD writer is not working.

 Any help, please ..

 anand

Re: non-A lenses and the *ist (D)

2003-06-15 Thread Rüdiger Neumann

From Arnold
I insist that a software update should easily cure the problem. The way
the *ist and the *ist D are programmed now, in aperture priority mode
(which really is an open aperture mode when there is a K or M lens
attached) the light meter and the viewfinder information are switched
OFF while DOF preview is activated and ON while DOF preview is not
activated. It should be quite quite easy to have it just the other way
around in aperture priority mode or manual mode: Light meter OFF when
DOF preview is not activated  and ON when DOF preview is activated.


I think also, if Pentax want to do it, it would be easy. The DOF botton with
PF 17 on 2
will work like the AE-L botton doing a measure when stopping down and put it
in AE-L memory.

That would be a nice work around for K/M users.
That would also have an advantage for Pentax. Pentax could wright, that the
*istD IS compabible
to K/M lenses. That would be a very good selling argument for some old
K1000, ME-Super users.
They will later see, that it is very unconvinient, so
they will replace the lenses they use very often to new FA lenses.
But they can still use there russian fisheye lens, which they are using ones
a year with their new
*istD.

Re: Quote of the Day

2003-06-15 Thread Bruce Rubenstein

Throat diameter is just one thing. What Canon did was to system engineer 
an entire SLR system from a fresh start. This means that folks sat down, 
figured out what they wanted the system to do and then figured out the 
best way to do it. They determined that electronic control of the lens 
was best for what they wanted. Once they knew the largest diameter they 
would probably ever need to optics, they included all the electrical 
contacts they might need. From this, they were able to figure out what 
the lens mount diameter had to be. (Standard system engineering practice.)
Pentax didn't keep cobbling their mount, they changed from screw to K, 
with no backwards mechanical compatibility to use a K mount lens on a 
screw mount body. Pentax and Nikon have been enhancing the 
control/command, lens/body interface to add new functions. The problem 
is that they've have made a series of changes, sometimes taking 
different directions (Nikon AIS). They are classic evolved systems, 
rather than engineered ones.

BR

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What was it about the old Canon mount?
Too narrow?  Too far from (or too near to)
the film plane?  Have Nikon and Pentax been
able to keep cobbling along because their mount
dimensions were more generous?  Somewhere this
must have been written about, but I've never
seen an article or discussion.
-Lon

Re: Tripod question

2003-06-15 Thread Pentxuser

 Every serious professional photographer that I have ever read about uses a 
ball head. I'm sure there are exceptions but rarely do I see pan tilts 
recommended in photography magazines. Maybe it's the magazines I read (outdoor 
photographer primarily) but I can't imagine ever using anything but a ball head...
Vic 
In a message dated 6/15/03 5:53:28 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

At a given price point, pan-tilt is usually a better
value.  More precise, locks down better, steadier.
Unless you know you need a ballhead (which are easier
to use when recomposition is frequent), stick with
a pan-tilt.  This amounts to conventional wisdom
as I understand it, and my experience (3 pan-tilt and
3 ballheads) confirms it.

Re: Pentax's future (was: *ist D revisited)

2003-06-15 Thread Mark Cassino

At 12:08 PM 6/8/2003 +0200, Bojidar Dimitrov wrote:

I do not think so.  I think that Pentax's future really lies in the
crippled (AKA FAJ-mount, AKA Kaf3), and if they are to do this thing,
then why not now?  For the kinds of customers that Pentax is after, it
really makes sense economically to leave out the aperture ring and the
aperture simulator.  These are complex mechanical shapes that require
lots of machining and complex assembly, and they are a source of
problems due to wear and tear.
What baffles me is that the Mz-S - just released a couple of years ago - 
not only supports the aperture ring but _needs_ it for aperture priority 
and metered manual operation.  I don't think releasing a new, limited mount 
in the new flagship would have made a lot of sense, but if Pentax knew this 
was the direction they were going in why not include on-body aperture control?

Actually - forget the flagship - doesn't the whole Zx series need the 
aperture ring for anything but TV and program modes?

I can only see three explanations:

1. They are not planning to totally discontinue the support of aperture rings.

2. They really don't plan ahead or think through their marketing, and so 
released a flagship that will be severely limited with new lenses.

3.  They plan to release a new flagship (and piss off all the folks who 
bought Mz-S's).

I suspect it's number 1.  They aren't so stupid as to do #2, and don't have 
the funds to develop a new flagship for #3.  While Pentax may ultimately 
move in the KAF-3 direction, I suspect it will be a more gradual transition.

- MCC
- - - - - - - - - -
Mark Cassino
Kalamazoo, MI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- - - - - - - - - -
Photos:
http://www.markcassino.com
- - - - - - - - - -

Re: Exposure

Pål Jensen wrote:
 The meter and camera is never wrong.
After so many posts on the subject you're still making this insane claim.

There's no meter with 0% error and mechanical device with 0% tolerances.

Can you understand that ?

cheers,
caveman

Which macro lens would you buy

2003-06-15 Thread Tony Cogan

Hi
I want to quit using close-up filters and start using a macro lens for 
flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good place to start?

Thanks,
Tony

Re: Exposure

Pål Jensen wrote:
Doug wrote:

Why the hell does it matter to you if Paal shoots to his satisfation? Does it affect 
your photography even a little bit?

REPLY:
The modus operandi is the following: He doesn't use equipment where you can set 
exposure consistently within 1/3s.
Trying to change the subject, Paal ? I thought we were debating *your* 
claims of having a camera with a 100% accurate meter and getting 1/3 
precision in 100% of the final shots. I say that the part about the 
meter is plainly impossible, and 1/3 stop is a precision that you should 
check with a densitometer to see if it's real.
I am sane enough as not to make any unbelievable claims about my camera 
without being able to substantiate them with hard evidence.

 When I say that I want such possibilities on my equipment I must want 
it  for non-valid or suspect reason because the person in question 
doesn't use it.

Are you imagining things again ? Can you quote me saying that ? Why 
don't you keep to the facts ?

cheers,
caveman

Re: Tripod question


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Every serious professional photographer that I have
 ever read about uses a 
 ball head
That is what made me think about ballhead.

Thanks
Rameh

__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Re: Aperture coupling was Re: Exposure

2003-06-15 Thread T Rittenhouse

Well, if they were on a disk that rotated the proper hole into the lens
axis, fixed stops would be just as quick as diaphragm stops. Would probably
work better on a PS type camera though.

Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto


- Original Message -
From: Nick Zentena [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Aperture coupling was Re: Exposure


 On June 14, 2003 09:31 pm, Jostein wrote:
  Valentin,
  I think the diaphragm itself will continue to be made from little metal
  pieces for a pretty good while yet.
 
  Erratic electric contacts will of course cause errors. Unless you have
some
  interesting definitions of erratic, electric, contacts or error
  that I'm not currently aware of. :-)


 Use waterhouse stops then perfect apertures each and every time. Might
slow
 things down a little-)))

 Nick

Re: Quote of the Day

2003-06-15 Thread Mark Roberts

Lon Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

What was it about the old Canon mount?
Too narrow?  Too far from (or too near to)
the film plane?  Have Nikon and Pentax been
able to keep cobbling along because their mount
dimensions were more generous?  Somewhere this
must have been written about, but I've never
seen an article or discussion.

The real reason for the new lens mount (for Canon in the change to EOS
and for Nikon if this latest rumor proves to be based on fact) is the
change to completely electronic control of all lens functions -
aperture, zoom, focus and anything else they decide to add (image
stabilization, for example).

-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
www.robertstech.com

Re: Which macro lens would you buy

2003-06-15 Thread Steve Larson

Hi,
 Vivitar Series 1 90-180/4.5 or Vivitar Series 1 90/2.5 with 1:1 adapter, 
coupled with an LX you have a great macro system.
Accessory #1) 58mm male to 58mm male filter ring.
Accessory #2) Vivitar Series 1 28/1.9 for reverse-mounting on 90/2.5
with 1:1 adapter for extreme close ups.
 
Steve Larson
Redondo Beach, California


- Original Message - 
From: Tony Cogan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:49 AM
Subject: Which macro lens would you buy


 Hi
 I want to quit using close-up filters and start using a macro lens for 
 flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good place to start?
 
 Thanks,
 Tony

Re: Tripod question

Pal wrote:
 Light ballheads are sturdier than light pan/tilt
 heads simply because theres more material going into
 a pan/tilt head. 
Thanks for technical explanation.
Thanks for everybody for responding.

Regards
Ramesh




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Re: Which macro lens would you buy

I started with Pentax FA 50mm macro and then added
Pentax FA 100mm macro. 
My suggestion is you can start directly with 100mm
macro and for most of the people 100mm may be enought
for macro work. You may not need 200mm macro.

Coming brand I think Pentax or Sigma.
No need to tell; Pentax is really good but may be
expensive.

Thanks
Ramesh

  
--- Tony Cogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi
 I want to quit using close-up filters and start
 using a macro lens for 
 flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good
 place to start?
 
 Thanks,
 Tony
 
 


__
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Re: Which macro lens would you buy

One with around 100mm focal length. Doubles as a portrait lens too.

Inexpensive options:
- Pentax FA 100/3.5 (autofocus)
- Vivitar S1 90/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5, Tokina ATX 90/2.5 (manual focus)
Expensive options:
- Pentax F or FA 100/2.8, Sigma EX 105/2.8 (autofocus)
- Pentax A 100/2.8 (manual focus)
cheers,
caveman
Tony Cogan wrote:
Hi
I want to quit using close-up filters and start using a macro lens for 
flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good place to start?

Thanks,
Tony

Re: Which macro lens would you buy

I was referring to f2.8 verions.

--- Ramesh Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I started with Pentax FA 50mm macro and then added
 Pentax FA 100mm macro. 
 My suggestion is you can start directly with 100mm
 macro and for most of the people 100mm may be
 enought
 for macro work. You may not need 200mm macro.
 
 Coming brand I think Pentax or Sigma.
 No need to tell; Pentax is really good but may be
 expensive.
 
 Thanks
 Ramesh
 
   
 --- Tony Cogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi
  I want to quit using close-up filters and start
  using a macro lens for 
  flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good
  place to start?
  
  Thanks,
  Tony
  
  
 
 
 __
 Do you Yahoo!?
 SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
 http://sbc.yahoo.com
 


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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Re: Which macro lens would you buy

2003-06-15 Thread Dr E D F Williams

You left out the Sigma 50/2.8 manual focus EX. I don't think autofocus would
help me much for macro work.

Doon
___
Dr E D F Williams
http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams
Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery
Updated: March 30, 2002


- Original Message -
From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: Which macro lens would you buy


 One with around 100mm focal length. Doubles as a portrait lens too.

 Inexpensive options:
 - Pentax FA 100/3.5 (autofocus)
 - Vivitar S1 90/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5, Tokina ATX 90/2.5 (manual focus)

 Expensive options:
 - Pentax F or FA 100/2.8, Sigma EX 105/2.8 (autofocus)
 - Pentax A 100/2.8 (manual focus)

 cheers,
 caveman

 Tony Cogan wrote:
  Hi
  I want to quit using close-up filters and start using a macro lens for
  flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good place to start?
 
  Thanks,
  Tony

Re: Which macro lens would you buy

2003-06-15 Thread alexanderkrohe

--- Tony Cogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi
 I want to quit using close-up filters and start
 using a macro lens for 
 flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good
 place to start?
 
 Thanks,
 Tony
 
 

Hi, 
I use the FA50mm most. For larger magnifications I
prefer the 50mm over the 100mm focal length. Pictures
tend to have more depths but you have to go very close
and illumination may be more difficult. 
Alexander 

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Re: Which macro lens would you buy

2003-06-15 Thread mishka

I am very happy with Vivitar Series 1 105/2.5 (which is the same as Kiron 105/2.5); does 1:1 without extensions, great build, backwards focusing direction (compared to Pentax lenses). It can be had for $120 in great condition.

Mishka

From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Which macro lens would you buy
One with around 100mm focal length. Doubles as a portrait lens too.

Inexpensive options:
- Pentax FA 100/3.5 (autofocus)
- Vivitar S1 90/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5, Tokina ATX 90/2.5 (manual focus)
Expensive options:
- Pentax F or FA 100/2.8, Sigma EX 105/2.8 (autofocus)
- Pentax A 100/2.8 (manual focus)
cheers,
caveman

Re: My Photography Show

In a message dated 6/15/2003 2:25:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 You have an artists eye, lovely composition and execution.

Whoa, THANKS!

Marnie aka Doe :-)

Re: Compatibility

2003-06-15 Thread Arnold Stark

Hi Jens,

both cameras have no aperture simulator but we do know that after 
properly setting the according custom function the *ist and a 
pre-production *ist D can work with K and M lenses
- either in metered open aperture mode (aka aperture priority mode) 
in which the aperture stays open all the time (when DOF preview is 
activated as well as during exposure)
- or in manual mode WITHOUT metering

I am asking Pentax to update the camera software so that the production 
*ist D also meters in REAL aperture priority mode OR in manual mode when 
DOF preview is activated (stop down metering), which is the only 
feasible way without aperture simulator.

Arnold





Jens Bladt schrieb:

Hi all
Do we know for a fact, that the two *ist cameras do not support the use of K
and M-lenses - that they will not work with these cameras? It's improtant to
me because I have quite a few good K and M lenses.
PENTAX USA clearly states they do (at the Web site). Some funktions will not
work, though. Which? Multi segment metering. Others?
To owners of the *ist: Please tell us what works and what doesn't.
Thanks
Best Regards
Jens

Re: Which macro lens would you buy

2003-06-15 Thread Frits Wüthrich

Or Tamron 90mm/2.8 Autofocus. I have this lens, highly recommended. 
The impression I have from reading various tests and user experiences:
you can't go wrong with any of the 90~100mm macro lenses. The
differences are not big. If I had to choose again, I might go for the
the F or FA100mm/2.8 Pentax lenses specifically for having SMC. I
noticed my Tamron is a bit sensitive for bright backlight.

On Sun, 2003-06-15 at 18:41, Caveman wrote:
 One with around 100mm focal length. Doubles as a portrait lens too.
 
 Inexpensive options:
 - Pentax FA 100/3.5 (autofocus)
 - Vivitar S1 90/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5, Tokina ATX 90/2.5 (manual focus)
 
 Expensive options:
 - Pentax F or FA 100/2.8, Sigma EX 105/2.8 (autofocus)
 - Pentax A 100/2.8 (manual focus)
 
 cheers,
 caveman
 
 Tony Cogan wrote:
  Hi
  I want to quit using close-up filters and start using a macro lens for 
  flowers, insects, etc.  Which lens would be a good place to start?
  
  Thanks,
  Tony
  
  
  
-- 
Frits Wüthrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: My Photography Show

2003-06-15 Thread Keith Whaley

Nice job, Marnie!

keith whaley

Some P.S. thoughts:
Not too many wide open spaces in Contra Costa County anymore, are there?
I loved that barn shot!
I lived in Concord, way back in '58-'63, and a revisit in about '95 left
my head reeling!
My little house, in a very small, quiet community of 2 B.R. houses, was
all razed and a freeway cloverleaf stood planted over the top of everything!
I was totally disoriented!
The old Concord didn't exist anymore, and I never went back.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Well, not mine. I finally finished the advanced photography class I was taking and 
 it ended in a little show. Actually, when everything was hung (eight students 
 remaining) it looked d__n good and not that little. This is my part of the show. 
 Depending how you figure it, I've been doing photography about seven to seven and a 
 half months, probably closer to seven and a half.
 
 http://members.aol.com/tamecomputer/
 
 Got bumped off the list again due to an overfull mailbox. I was so busy the last 2-3 
 weeks I let it go.
 
 But back on the list again, yip!, (and, boy, do I have a lot to read).
 
 Marnie aka Doe :-)

Re: Pentax dropping M Shift, A 15/3.5, ...

They have promised more lenses in the fall. This in their press release and 
also circulating in the rumor mill. The press release says it is lenses 
suited for the *istD something I think means wide angles. Some PDML member 
heard at PMA that there are both a 16/2.8 and a 16-35/2.8 coming. They both 
makes sense when Pentyax is manufacturing not full frame DSLR's. Time will 
tell.
So the 16/2.8 won't be a replacement for the 15/3.5, but for digital only.  
:-(

regards,
Alan Chan
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Re: My Photography Show

2003-06-15 Thread T Rittenhouse

These graphic artists sneak in here and pretend photography is hard for them
grin. Nice work.

Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto


- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: My Photography Show


 Well, not mine. I finally finished the advanced photography class I was
taking and it ended in a little show. Actually, when everything was hung
(eight students remaining) it looked d__n good and not that little. This is
my part of the show. Depending how you figure it, I've been doing
photography about seven to seven and a half months, probably closer to seven
and a half.

 http://members.aol.com/tamecomputer/

 Got bumped off the list again due to an overfull mailbox. I was so busy
the last 2-3 weeks I let it go.

 But back on the list again, yip!, (and, boy, do I have a lot to read).

 Marnie aka Doe :-)

Re: Dark Prints?

2003-06-15 Thread Rfsindg

Take a look at your negatives.  Are they really dark?
Did the lab pull these images our of bad negatives?

It sounds like your metering is way off.  
Look at the batteries and the contacts in the battery chamber.
New batteries are cheaper than another roll of film.

Regards,  Bob S.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Dear group, I took a couple of rolls of color print film the other day, 
  half to play with some new toys, like my Refconverter-M, and half to 
  check a couple of MX bodies for light leaks and so forth. The prints 
  came out poorly, and  wonder if you can think of why.
  
  On one body I had my 50mm f/1.4 M lens attached and was loaded with 
  Kodak HiDef 400ASA print film, while the other had a 100mm f/4 M Macro 
  lens and was loaded with Fuji X-TRA 800ASA print film.
  
  By the way I had used these two bodies to check some batteries, with a 
  single lens, to see if they gave  the same metering with an old DL-1 
  (CR1/3N), a new DL-1 and a pair of new MS76 batteries. All three 
  battery sets gave very similar readings (within 1/2 a stop) but I 
  noticed with the old DL-1, sometimes when I would adjust the shutter 
  speed the metering LEDs would either run up and down or just drop to 
  the bottom indicator. Playing with the shutter speed dial and/or the 
  aperture ring would make the symptom go away, temporarily. (More about 
  this later.) I decided the problem was the old DL-1 so I discarded it.
  
  The problem with the prints is they all look, for lack of a better 
  word, dark. Like there is a layer of darkened glass on top of each 
  print. Yellow poppies in the sun look dull for example, with no pop 
  to them at all.  And this is on both rolls. I had them developed at a 
  local photo shop where they just used a C-41 mini-lab type thing, where 
  I usually have my print film developed (without this look to them).
  
  I had taken some macro shots indoors of the covers of some newly 
  published Ian Fleming James Bond books using some cheap full spectrum 
  fluorescent lamps and they don't look excessively warm, just dark. I 
  did my usual bracketing and the overexposed ones look overexposed to 
  me, with highlights too light and colors lighter than they should be, 
  but still dark, with no contrast, no snap.  Other shots of flowers 
  out in the sun have the same problem. A few shots of my new-to-me 
  US$500 beater car are also dark this way. Curiously a trio of shots 
  of the neighbors Nomad wagon look much better, although still a trifle 
  dark.
  
  Any ideas what this is? Crappy film? Poor development or printing? I 
  would guess that they are all underexposed, except for how the 
  overexposed shots look from my bracketing. Buy maybe they are 
  under-exposed and the latitude of the print film and the processing are 
  fooling me? But why then are the colors washed out on the overexposed 
  shots??
  
  Oh yeah, remember the symptom I saw with the old DL-1 where the 
  metering lights would run up and down when I moved the shutter speed 
  dial? I saw this several times with both bodies while I was taking 
  these pictures. And I think I also saw the drop to the bottom LED 
  thing a couple of times too! Are there contacts related to the shutter 
  speed dial that are corroded or loose or something? Is this a 
  recognized symptom of any particular problem? Is it related to my 
  dark prints?

RE: OT - URGENT - where on web ?

2003-06-15 Thread Altaf Shaikh

How much room do you need, I can give you space on my server for free just
let me know how much room you need and how big the files are (tiff or jpg).

al



-Original Message-
From: Anand DHUPKAR [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: OT - URGENT - where on web ?


Hi folks,

Any safe places/services on the web where I can upload data files from my
hard drive as temporary backup ?  For some reason, my computer has become a
mess and worst part is my CD writer is not working.

Any help, please ..

anand

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FA77 observation...

After the yet to be finished adventure of my brand new FA31 (being checked 
with Pentax now), I discovered something interesting about my FA77 
yesterday. I have purchased an used metal Takumar 100mm hood and see if it 
works on my FA77 which has a rather shallow hood. It seemed to work fine, 
but after a while, the focus ring started to feel resistance. All these 
years it was light and firm, but now it feels different suddenly. The 
strange thing is, the focus ring feels light again if the camera was shifted 
to portrait format (on camera or not really doesn't matter). I thought it 
was the weight of the metal hood which caused the drag. But it stays that 
way even without the hood, only slightly less drag. Now I am puzzling, 
what could be the reason behind this? It cannot be distortion due to the 
weight of the hood which is not that heavy even though it is metal. I cannot 
imagine it was normal wear either because it was fine all along. So what is 
it? An idea? If it helps, I upload the illustration of this lens at 
http://www3.telus.net/wlachan/PL41410_new.pdf.

regards,
Alan Chan
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Re: My Photography Show

In a message dated 6/15/2003 3:16:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 Nice job, Marnie!
 
 keith whaley
 
 Some P.S. thoughts:
 Not too many wide open spaces in Contra Costa County anymore, are there?
 I loved that barn shot!
 I lived in Concord, way back in '58-'63, and a revisit in about '95 left
 my head reeling!
 My little house, in a very small, quiet community of 2 B.R. houses, was
 all razed and a freeway cloverleaf stood planted over the top of everything!
 I was totally disoriented!
 The old Concord didn't exist anymore, and I never went 
 back.

There are actually a few more than you might think (open spaces). There's Mt. Diablo 
State Park, of course, and several other parks and set aside open spaces. Some of 
those shots (the blue sky montage) were taken at Lime Ridge open space. Of course, 
right up next to it is a major housing development.

Yes, the population area in the last 15 years or so has grown 10 fold -- 10X more 
people, cars, and houses. What was once a suburban area is now more and more urban. 
It's a shame really, but it made going around to look for open space and undisturbed 
or relatively undisturbed nature all that more interesting (and is probably something 
I will continue to photographically). Many in the class and at the show were really 
surprised that they were all shot in the county. 

Especially the barn, and I really hated telling anyone (though I did), where it was 
(afraid more photographers would show up there, and it's quiet and off the beaten path 
and I think the farmers in that area want to keep it that way). That was in Kiker 
(sp?) Pass on the way to Pittsburg (beyond the Concord Pavilion). If you go off the 
highway on the side roads (which most would not do, because it's a zoom through area) 
there are about five to six still working farms. Right off the highway, but tucked 
away. I figure that is why they are still there, the area is not really good for 
housing (yet) -- the turn offs/ons from/to the highway could kill one :-) and it's 
very hilly. But the whole Concord/Clayton border area is now filled with houses, right 
up to Mt. Diablo. Great view for them, but ruining it for everyone else. Houses and 
houses. I figure they went in in about the last three to five years.

Sigh. Going to capture what I can why it's still here, well, if I keep photographing 
this kind of thing, which I may do.

Thanks for your comments. Marnie aka Doe :-)

Re: FA77 observation...

The only 2 parts that could cause the drag is F101  F131 as far as I can 
imagine. But I could be wrong.

regards,
Alan Chan
After the yet to be finished adventure of my brand new FA31 (being checked 
with Pentax now), I discovered something interesting about my FA77 
yesterday. I have purchased an used metal Takumar 100mm hood and see if it 
works on my FA77 which has a rather shallow hood. It seemed to work fine, 
but after a while, the focus ring started to feel resistance. All these 
years it was light and firm, but now it feels different suddenly. The 
strange thing is, the focus ring feels light again if the camera was 
shifted to portrait format (on camera or not really doesn't matter). I 
thought it was the weight of the metal hood which caused the drag. But it 
stays that way even without the hood, only slightly less drag. Now I am 
puzzling, what could be the reason behind this? It cannot be distortion due 
to the weight of the hood which is not that heavy even though it is metal. 
I cannot imagine it was normal wear either because it was fine all along. 
So what is it? An idea? If it helps, I upload the illustration of this lens 
at http://www3.telus.net/wlachan/PL41410_new.pdf.
_
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Re: My Photography Show

In a message dated 6/15/2003 3:40:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 These graphic artists sneak in here and pretend photography 
 is hard for them
 grin. Nice work.
 
 Ciao,
 Graywolf

Hehehehe. I never was a graphic artist actually, just a painter once. For a while, 
long ago.

And photography *IS* hard. ;-)

THANKS!

Marnie aka Doe

Re: FA77 observation...

2003-06-15 Thread KT Takeshita

On 03.6.15 4:53 PM, Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The 
 strange thing is, the focus ring feels light again if the camera was shifted
 to portrait format (on camera or not really doesn't matter).

I too have been aware of it since I purchased it when it came out.  In fact,
it was first pointed out by someone in this list at that time.

It is hard to tell what is causing this from the exploded view but it should
have something to do with a gravity, asymmetric part (s) and possibly
something pivoting.
You only feel very slight resistance in landscape (normal) mode (distinctive
enough though), and I was not aware of it until someone pointed out.
Interesting.  

Cheers,

Ken

Re: SV: Quote of the Day

I have, and I grasp it very well thank you.  May you gain wisdom with time
as well my son.
At 09:29 PM 6/15/03 +0200, you wrote:
To grasp the true meaning of socialism - try a little reading!

-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Peter Alling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 15. juni 2003 21:23
Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: Quote of the Day
Only if they produce lenses in that mount.

At 09:12 PM 6/15/03 +0200, you wrote:
Hi all
I have read, that the new Olympus digie is supposed to feature a new
mount
to enable other brands of lenses to be used. Kodak and Fujifilm
participated
in the development of the new Four Thirds system - says FotoMagazin.

Regards
Jens
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is
designed by
 the post office, even the sleaze.
 O'Rourke, P.J.
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is 
designed by
the post office, even the sleaze.
O'Rourke, P.J.

Re: FA77 observation...

Perhaps Pentax made the helical portion too narrow (F101) because the design 
is basically the same as M lenses.

regards,
Alan Chan
I too have been aware of it since I purchased it when it came out.  In 
fact,
it was first pointed out by someone in this list at that time.

It is hard to tell what is causing this from the exploded view but it 
should
have something to do with a gravity, asymmetric part (s) and possibly
something pivoting.
You only feel very slight resistance in landscape (normal) mode 
(distinctive
enough though), and I was not aware of it until someone pointed out.
Interesting.
_
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Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

I doubt that it is as simple as all that.  Roanoke is still a small town. 
You're dealing
with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely 
they toned down
their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the 
case to spare the
local populaces's sensibilities.  In which case you have to read between 
the lines it seems
to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a 
very bizarre scene.
There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing 
pornography, real
or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God 
Fearing people.

At 05:25 PM 6/14/03 -0400, you wrote:
Treena wrote:
Whether she consented or not, I suspect he will still be charged with
negligent homicide or manslaughter. I doubt he intended to kill her, but
he'll have a difficult time proving he didn't help her get there.
Weird laws. So if X gets a girl in his house, takes her photos, then they 
have sex, then the girl takes Valium, goes to bed and dies in sleep, X is 
a criminal ?

A strong reason for me to keep photographing flowers ;-)

cheers,
caveman
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is 
designed by
the post office, even the sleaze.
O'Rourke, P.J.

Re: On Topic: Two questions

1. Yesterday I've loaded a TMax 100 film to my ZX-L. ME Super is going
to be cleaned and probably mirror foam going to be replaced. ZX-L
rated the TMax 100 as 160 ISO film. How come?
Try to clean the DX contacts on the camera and the film cartridge and see if 
it solves the problem.

2. I've got 49 mm old circular polarizer from Kenko. When I put it
onto my 50/1.7 which is then mounted on ME Super I see the polarizer
effect only. On ZX-L however I see the definite magenta color cast
when polarizing effect is maximal. Who is cheating me? Also, can
polarizer be used as also as a ND filter? I really like the way it
makes things look.
Since PL eats up 1.5-2EV, it can be used as ND too, but with polarizing 
effect of course. Can't explain the magenta cast, but you cannot rely on the 
viewfinder for accuracy, especially those with poor viewfinder.

regards,
Alan Chan
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Re: Aperture coupling was Re: Exposure

Looks like a bright future for the FAJ-lenses, then... :-)
Yep, the future FAJ, not the current FAJ.

regards,
Alan Chan
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Re: My Photography Show

2003-06-15 Thread Bob Walkden

Hi,

Sunday, June 15, 2003, 10:04:03 PM, you wrote:

 And photography *IS* hard. ;-)

you've done well in that set to show some variety within a coherent
theme. This is something that the Royal Photographic Society (RPS)
stresses when people submit work for their distinction awards. But
having sat through several workshops it seems to me that very few
people understand this, and realise how it helps each photograph to
reinforce the other. A few coherent photographs working together can
have far greater impact than a set of unrelated photographs even if
individually the unrelated ones are individually better than the
others.

-- 
Cheers,
 Bobmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: a thought on marketing philosophy

Were the Kodak Photo CDs you used to get back when requested recorded
with a proprietary format, but they're offering jpegs now? Don't know,
but I'll bet someone here has the info...
There are 2 CDs from Kodak. PhotoCD is the high quality 4000dpi scans while 
PictureCD is low quality format.

regards,
Alan Chan
_

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Bruce Rubenstein

Shell's wife had enough of the whole thing: 
http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story150953.html

BR

Re: Tripod question

2003-06-15 Thread Cotty

 I am planning replace my existing tripd with corbon
 fibre tripod, so was thinking about the ball heads. 
 I have few doubts about them.

As indeed I did when I was in your position. Having since purchased a
Manfrotto 486RC2 ball head some months ago, I can truly say that it has
proven faultless and well up to the task. It locks solidly at any angle
through 90 deg and unlocks smoothly. More to the point, it is much
quicker than a pan and tilt model and now I would not consider anything else.

HTH

Cotty




Cheers,
  Cotty


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Re: Which macro lens would you buy

2003-06-15 Thread Ryan Charron

Hi There,

No one has mentioned the Tamron 90mm AF f2.8 1x macro.
I've got one and it's superb!!

Sincerely,
Ryan

__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

Re: Pentax's future (was: *ist D revisited)

but if Pentax knew this was the direction they were going in why not 
include on-body aperture control?
Judging from the Pentax K mount history, I have a strong feeling that they 
have never had a strong vision, let alone direction. We all know they have 
had many never-seen-the-light products, as Pal has pointed out. Being a 
company which merely follows the trend, you really cannot blame them. It is 
Minolta's fault to make AF the future, Canon's fault to make so many damn 
good AF products.  :-)

2. They really don't plan ahead or think through their marketing,
They did, but things always turned out different.  :-)

3.  They plan to release a new flagship (and piss off all the folks who 
bought Mz-S's).
How can you say that? MZ-S has been around for 3 years and nobody pointed 
the gun to your head. Besides, we still do not know if there will be another 
flagship film based body. If not, you would be a winner and I would be a 
loser (because I don't have MZ-S). If yes, you would be a loser  I would be 
a winner (because I didn't waste money on MZ-S). Life is such a game.

I suspect it's number 1.  They aren't so stupid as to do #2, and don't have 
the funds to develop a new flagship for #3.  While Pentax may ultimately 
move in the KAF-3 direction, I suspect it will be a more gradual 
transition.
For every series, there has been a flagship model (K2, MX, Super A, P50, 
SFXn, Z-1p, MZ-S) although whether they are better than their own 
predecessor is questionable. So there is a good chance there will be a *ist 
flagship model.

regards,
Alan Chan
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Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Treena

Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly in
small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of
the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to
describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of
2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't believe
half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits
over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in a
small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're probably
sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story
right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen.

- Original Message - 
From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?


 I doubt that it is as simple as all that.  Roanoke is still a small town.
 You're dealing
 with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely
 they toned down
 their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the
 case to spare the
 local populaces's sensibilities.  In which case you have to read between
 the lines it seems
 to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a
 very bizarre scene.
 There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing
 pornography, real
 or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God
 Fearing people.

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

I live in a small town too, and I understand the weirdness that can lie 
below the surface.
I was only commenting on small town newspapers, (who in my experience gloss 
over such
things), and politics, (I believe that district attorneys are elected in 
Virginia which
makes a very political office even more so).

At 05:43 PM 6/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly in
small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of
the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to
describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of
2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't believe
half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits
over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in a
small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're probably
sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story
right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen.
- Original Message -
From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
 I doubt that it is as simple as all that.  Roanoke is still a small town.
 You're dealing
 with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most likely
 they toned down
 their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the
 case to spare the
 local populaces's sensibilities.  In which case you have to read between
 the lines it seems
 to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a
 very bizarre scene.
 There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing
 pornography, real
 or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for God
 Fearing people.
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is 
designed by
the post office, even the sleaze.
O'Rourke, P.J.

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Bill Owens

As someone who grew up in Roanoke and still visits quite often...

It's not what you would normally picture as a small town.  The city of
Roanoke has a population of ~90,000 and the metropolitan area brings it well
over 100,000.  Since Radford University and Virginia Tech are the largest
universities in the area, they get considerable play in the Roanoke
Times/World News.  However, like most newspapers, they will sensationalize
news items if it will benefit circulation.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Treena [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?


 Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on regularly
in
 small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE portion of
 the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to
 describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town of
 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't
believe
 half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his exploits
 over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding anything in
a
 small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're
probably
 sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a story
 right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?


  I doubt that it is as simple as all that.  Roanoke is still a small
town.
  You're dealing
  with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most
likely
  they toned down
  their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of the
  case to spare the
  local populaces's sensibilities.  In which case you have to read between

  the lines it seems
  to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece together a
  very bizarre scene.
  There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was producing
  pornography, real
  or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe for
God
  Fearing people.

RE: My Photography Show

2003-06-15 Thread tom

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 Well, not mine. I finally finished the advanced 
 photography class I was taking and it ended in a little 
 show. Actually, when everything was hung (eight students 
 remaining) it looked d__n good and not that little. This is 
 my part of the show. Depending how you figure it, I've been 
 doing photography about seven to seven and a half months, 
 probably closer to seven and a half.
 
 http://members.aol.com/tamecomputer/

Good job, copngrats.

BTW, that montage thing is the latest thing in wedding album design.

tv

RE: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Shaun Canning

Shit, you guys think 90,000 is a small town. I live in a town of 2,500
and think it's big enough (admittedly Melbourne is only 60 kilometres
away and has 3~4 million). The best part about my town is that nothing
ever happens, and I mean nothing

Cheers

Shaun Canning
Cultural Heritage Services
High Street, Broadford, 
Vic, 3658
Mob: 0414-967 644
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.heritageservices.com.au


-Original Message-
From: Bill Owens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, 16 June 2003 9:05 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

As someone who grew up in Roanoke and still visits quite often...

It's not what you would normally picture as a small town.  The city of
Roanoke has a population of ~90,000 and the metropolitan area brings it
well
over 100,000.  Since Radford University and Virginia Tech are the
largest
universities in the area, they get considerable play in the Roanoke
Times/World News.  However, like most newspapers, they will
sensationalize
news items if it will benefit circulation.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Treena [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?


 Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on
regularly
in
 small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE
portion of
 the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to
 describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town
of
 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't
believe
 half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his
exploits
 over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding
anything in
a
 small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're
probably
 sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a
story
 right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?


  I doubt that it is as simple as all that.  Roanoke is still a small
town.
  You're dealing
  with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most
likely
  they toned down
  their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of
the
  case to spare the
  local populaces's sensibilities.  In which case you have to read
between

  the lines it seems
  to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece
together a
  very bizarre scene.
  There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was
producing
  pornography, real
  or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe
for
God
  Fearing people.





---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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RE: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

Well, more properly the town I live in used to be a small town, about 20
years ago we had a year round population of about 3000, now it's about 20,000.
It's still got a small town mentality.
At 09:30 AM 6/16/03 +1000, you wrote:
Shit, you guys think 90,000 is a small town. I live in a town of 2,500
and think it's big enough (admittedly Melbourne is only 60 kilometres
away and has 3~4 million). The best part about my town is that nothing
ever happens, and I mean nothing
Cheers

Shaun Canning
Cultural Heritage Services
High Street, Broadford,
Vic, 3658
Mob: 0414-967 644
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.heritageservices.com.au
-Original Message-
From: Bill Owens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 16 June 2003 9:05 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
As someone who grew up in Roanoke and still visits quite often...

It's not what you would normally picture as a small town.  The city of
Roanoke has a population of ~90,000 and the metropolitan area brings it
well
over 100,000.  Since Radford University and Virginia Tech are the
largest
universities in the area, they get considerable play in the Roanoke
Times/World News.  However, like most newspapers, they will
sensationalize
news items if it will benefit circulation.
Bill

- Original Message -
From: Treena [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
 Oh, I very much doubt that. You'd be surprised at what goes on
regularly
in
 small towns, and what the cops find on a regular basis. A LARGE
portion of
 the weirdness in this country is in its small towns, and if I were to
 describe to you some of the stuff that has gone on in our little town
of
 2,500 over just the last three or four years, you probably wouldn't
believe
 half of it. I'm sure the locals have known all about him and his
exploits
 over the years - more than even he suspects. There's no hiding
anything in
a
 small town. But, you're probably right about the coverage - they're
probably
 sticking very closely to just the known facts. One wrong move in a
story
 right now, and it's a huge potential lawsuit waiting to happen.

 - Original Message -
 From: Peter Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 5:06 PM
 Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?


  I doubt that it is as simple as all that.  Roanoke is still a small
town.
  You're dealing
  with a local paper, not the New York Post or Daily News, it is most
likely
  they toned down
  their report rather than playing up the more sensational aspects of
the
  case to spare the
  local populaces's sensibilities.  In which case you have to read
between
  the lines it seems
  to me they were hinting that local police were able to piece
together a
  very bizarre scene.
  There is another possibility, if as Greywolf says Shell was
producing
  pornography, real
  or imagined the local prosecutor may be out to make Roanoke safe
for
God
  Fearing people.




---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 1/06/2003
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is 
designed by
the post office, even the sleaze.
O'Rourke, P.J.

Re: My Photography Show

2003-06-15 Thread Bruce Dayton

Marnie,

I really like the barn.  I drive from Sacramento to SF fairly often
and have thought over and over that I would like to capture those
beautiful hills.  Getting the right composition is the real trick.  I
am always in a rush and can never take the time to do it.  Your barn
shot is quite in line with something that I would hope to capture.
Great job!


Bruce



Sunday, June 15, 2003, 11:44:43 AM, you wrote:

Eac Well, not mine. I finally finished the advanced photography class I was taking 
and it ended in a little show. Actually, when everything was hung (eight students 
remaining) it looked d__n good
Eac and not that little. This is my part of the show. Depending how you figure it, 
I've been doing photography about seven to seven and a half months, probably closer to 
seven and a half.

Eac http://members.aol.com/tamecomputer/

Eac Got bumped off the list again due to an overfull mailbox. I was so busy the last 
2-3 weeks I let it go. 

Eac But back on the list again, yip!, (and, boy, do I have a lot to read).

Eac Marnie aka Doe :-)

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Leonard Paris

This reminds me of a story I heard recently.  It goes like this:

A girl goes to the police station and reports that she was raped.  The desk 
sergeant asks when it happened.  She says, Two weeks ago.  The desk 
sergeant asks, When did you realize that you had been violated?  She says, 
When the check bounced.

It seems a bit outrageous but, in some places, consensual sex can turn into 
rape if the woman (not the man) decides she didn't want to do it, even days 
after she consented.  Bob Shell should not have to prove that he didn't 
help her get there.  The state needs to prove that he did, beyond the 
shadow of doubt.

Len
---

From: Caveman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:25:01 -0400
Weird laws. So if X gets a girl in his house, takes her photos, then they 
have sex, then the girl takes Valium, goes to bed and dies in sleep, X is a 
criminal ?

A strong reason for me to keep photographing flowers ;-)

cheers,
caveman
_
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Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Bill Owens


My Dad always said Roanoke was too big to be a small town and too small to
be a big town.

Bill

 Well, more properly the town I live in used to be a small town, about 20
 years ago we had a year round population of about 3000, now it's about
20,000.
 It's still got a small town mentality.

 At 09:30 AM 6/16/03 +1000, you wrote:
 Shit, you guys think 90,000 is a small town. I live in a town of 2,500
 and think it's big enough (admittedly Melbourne is only 60 kilometres
 away and has 3~4 million). The best part about my town is that nothing
 ever happens, and I mean nothing
 
 Cheers
 
 Shaun Canning
 Cultural Heritage Services
 High Street, Broadford,
 Vic, 3658
 Mob: 0414-967 644
 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.heritageservices.com.au

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Brendan

 And to think people have been comparing me to Bob
shell, K

__ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Re:[thats it] My Photography Show

2003-06-15 Thread brooksdj

 Well, not mine. I finally finished the 
advanced 
photography class I was taking and it
ended in a little show. Actually, when everything was hung (eight students remaining) 
it
looked d__n good and not that little. This is my part of the show. Depending how you
figure it, I've been doing photography about seven to seven and a half months, probably
closer to seven and a half.
 
 http://members.aol.com/tamecomputer/
 Marnie aka Doe :-) 

Very nice Marnie,I too like the barn shot.Good composition and lighting.
On a side note,your montage shots are exactly what i'm looking for a program to do 
automatically.I can do them somewhat in PS but with no  borders and all single picture
manipulations.
Any suggestions now folks,now that you know what i'm trying to do???

Dave

Re: My Photography Show

I agree with you, Bruce,

The barn is my fave, too.

Well done, Marnie!  All were wonderful shots.  So now that it's all over, what do you 
think of your instructer?

cheers,
frank

Bruce Dayton wrote:

 Marnie,

 I really like the barn.  I drive from Sacramento to SF fairly often
 and have thought over and over that I would like to capture those
 beautiful hills.  Getting the right composition is the real trick.  I
 am always in a rush and can never take the time to do it.  Your barn
 shot is quite in line with something that I would hope to capture.
 Great job!


--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

Well, Leonard,

You've hit the nail on the head.  He's innocent until proven guilty.  And the
State has to prove it's case against him beyond a reasonable doubt (not beyond
a shadow of a doubt - commone mistake g).  Hard to know what the guy did or
didn't do, or what the girl did or didn't agree to, from a brief newspaper
story.

As for the issue of the woman's consent, I actually carry around consent forms
with me, so that I can get any partner to sign a written consent ahead of time,
just in the case of such little problems.  Been carrying them around for about 5
years now.  Haven't had the opportunity to use one yet...   vbg

ciao,
frank

Leonard Paris wrote:

 This reminds me of a story I heard recently.  It goes like this:

 A girl goes to the police station and reports that she was raped.  The desk
 sergeant asks when it happened.  She says, Two weeks ago.  The desk
 sergeant asks, When did you realize that you had been violated?  She says,
 When the check bounced.

 It seems a bit outrageous but, in some places, consensual sex can turn into
 rape if the woman (not the man) decides she didn't want to do it, even days
 after she consented.  Bob Shell should not have to prove that he didn't
 help her get there.  The state needs to prove that he did, beyond the
 shadow of doubt.

 Len
 ---


--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

Biting my tongue, biting my tongue, biting my tongue...

vbg

-frank

Brendan wrote:

  And to think people have been comparing me to Bob
 shell, K

 __
 Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

2003-06-15 Thread Brendan

Fank be nice :D

 --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:  Biting my tongue, biting my tongue, biting my
 tongue...
 
 vbg
 
 -frank
 
 Brendan wrote:
 
   And to think people have been comparing me to Bob
  shell, K
 
 

__
  Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
 
 --
 What a senseless waste of human life
 -The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
 
  

__ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

Naah, listen to good old Caveman: you have to get married first. This is 
the only true way to get a divorce. (And that's why wimin are so 
insistent about it.)

Then get a studio and do nudes. Lots of them, including fetish, bondage 
and the whole dark side. Get published. From this moment wife will be 
able to get a divorce any time she wants.

Then spend the rest of your life working sweating hard to pay her all 
the fancy dresses, shoes, jewelry, new cars and everything, so you can 
delay the divorce.

cheers,
caveman
Brendan wrote:
 And to think people have been comparing me to Bob
shell, K
__ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

So that's why you work in an underground bunker, completely impervious to
nuclear (or as GW would say, nuk-u-lar) attack?  So your signifcant other
won't know what evil lurks in your mind?  vbg

cheers,
frank

Caveman wrote:

 Naah, listen to good old Caveman: you have to get married first. This is
 the only true way to get a divorce. (And that's why wimin are so
 insistent about it.)

 Then get a studio and do nudes. Lots of them, including fetish, bondage
 and the whole dark side. Get published. From this moment wife will be
 able to get a divorce any time she wants.

 Then spend the rest of your life working sweating hard to pay her all
 the fancy dresses, shoes, jewelry, new cars and everything, so you can
 delay the divorce.

 cheers,
 caveman

 Brendan wrote:
   And to think people have been comparing me to Bob
  shell, K
 
  __
  Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
 
 

--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

The circumstances of her death will weigh heavily against him.  Remember 
there is
a death involved here.  There is no question of the girl agreeing or not, she's
dead that is not an option of consent, not in any jurisdiction I'm aware of.

At 08:40 PM 6/15/03 -0400, you wrote:
Well, Leonard,

You've hit the nail on the head.  He's innocent until proven guilty.  And the
State has to prove it's case against him beyond a reasonable doubt (not 
beyond
a shadow of a doubt - commone mistake g).  Hard to know what the guy did or
didn't do, or what the girl did or didn't agree to, from a brief newspaper
story.

As for the issue of the woman's consent, I actually carry around consent 
forms
with me, so that I can get any partner to sign a written consent ahead of 
time,
just in the case of such little problems.  Been carrying them around for 
about 5
years now.  Haven't had the opportunity to use one yet...   vbg

ciao,
frank
Leonard Paris wrote:

 This reminds me of a story I heard recently.  It goes like this:

 A girl goes to the police station and reports that she was raped.  The desk
 sergeant asks when it happened.  She says, Two weeks ago.  The desk
 sergeant asks, When did you realize that you had been violated?  She says,
 When the check bounced.

 It seems a bit outrageous but, in some places, consensual sex can turn into
 rape if the woman (not the man) decides she didn't want to do it, even days
 after she consented.  Bob Shell should not have to prove that he didn't
 help her get there.  The state needs to prove that he did, beyond the
 shadow of doubt.

 Len
 ---

--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is 
designed by
the post office, even the sleaze.
O'Rourke, P.J.

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

frank theriault wrote:
Hard to know what the guy did or
didn't do, or what the girl did or didn't agree to, 
Strange: a tape recorded with a porn movie constitues evidence 
(pornography found on premises), while one with a record of what 
actually happened in the room can't be used as evidence in court.

As for the issue of the woman's consent, I actually carry around consent forms
with me, so that I can get any partner to sign a written consent ahead of time,
just in the case of such little problems.  Been carrying them around for about 5
years now.  Haven't had the opportunity to use one yet...   vbg
Don't bother. Just ask for a receipt or pay by INTERAC.

cheers,
caveman ;-)

Re: Quote of the Day

And as a serious comment. Canon does a lot of business because they always 
have the right product at the right time, with the right technology and 
performance, not because they changed camera mounts.

Really? So Canon EOS has nothing to do with the lens mount?
The technology and performance would have been impossible without the mount 
changes.
I agree with Pal here. The original Canon manual focus mount was a mess. The 
Pentax K mount was a much cleaner design. I don't see how Canon could keep 
upgrading their old mount like the K mount.

regards,
Alan Chan
_
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Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

That was clearly an improper instruction, and if appealed, would likely have
resulted in a new trial.  The fact that the Crown didn't appeal just says
that they didn't give a s**t either...

-frank

William Robb wrote:

 We had a case here a few years back where a couple of rich white kids
 whacked an Aboriginal hooker for fun.
 At the trial, the jury was instructed by the judge to take into account
 that the girl was a prostitute, and had agreed to engage in activities
 with the two morons before deciding if they were guilty of murder or
 manslaughter.
 They were found guilty of manslaughter, and both were back on the street
 in less than five years.

 William Robb

--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: [thats it] My Photography Show

In a message dated 6/15/2003 3:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

 Very nice Marnie,I too like the barn shot.Good composition and lighting.
 On a side note,your montage shots are exactly what i'm looking for a program to do 
 automatically.I can do them somewhat in PS but with no  borders and all single 
 picture
 manipulations.
 Any suggestions now folks,now that you know what i'm trying 
 to do???
 
 Dave

Well, you know those are all printed -- i.e. they are all of one piece, no paste up. I 
am surprised to hear that Photoshop doesn't do borders. I did those in Paintshop Pro 
(7). It has an add borders feature. Then I went to print multiple pages and laid it 
all out. What I really like about multiple pages is that you can save the layout. So 
if you need to fiddle with it, you can come back later and readjust it. However, it's 
not totally automatic or anything, you have to do the layout yourself.

I think the color management in Elements is better, so the same photographs loaded in 
Paintshop Pro will look a different color (because there is no monitor profile). 
However, if you scan and save first in Elements then use Paintshop Pro for any future 
saving, the color will not undergo a change.  

HTH, Marnie aka Doe :-) Thanks for the comments.

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

frank theriault wrote:
I didn't mix sex into it at all, the police did.  AFAIK, he hasn't been charged with
murder yet, only with sodomy (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, imho), and with
sexual penetration with an object (which shouldn't be a criminal charge, either).
Huh. So using a suppository might be considered a criminal offence ? 
Sodomy through sexual penetration with an object ? How do the 
proctologists get away with their stuff ? Frank, are these laws also 
valid in Canada or are they US only ?

I was using the word sordid tongue-in-cheek.
I feel relieved. For a moment I suspected you of being the grumpy old 
man type ;-)

BTW, I don't even know that drug overdose is being touted as the cause of death.  All
I've read is that we have a dead girl, who had drugs in her system, the police have found
drug paraphenalia at his place (they didn't even say if it was his), and they found
pornography at his place. 
I did a quick mental sanity check. If police comes now into my cave, 
they can find all of the above, except a dead body. Aspirin is a drug 
and can also kill if you take too many pills, some jpegs on the hard 
drive and you're all set up. Nice job.

cheers,
caveman

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

Who the hell am I kidding?  Any reference to my sex life must be presented in the past
tense.  vbg

-frank

I rather optimistically wrote:

 snipNo one here knows anything about my
 sexual preferences (and it's gonna stay that way!)snip

--
What a senseless waste of human life
-The Customer in Monty Python's Cheese Shop sketch

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?

I wouldn't say this can't happen here but it shouldn't.

At 08:03 PM 6/15/03 -0600, you wrote:

- Original Message -
From: Peter Alling
Subject: Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?
 The circumstances of her death will weigh heavily against him.
Remember
 there is
 a death involved here.  There is no question of the girl agreeing or
not, she's
 dead that is not an option of consent, not in any jurisdiction I'm
aware of.
We had a case here a few years back where a couple of rich white kids
whacked an Aboriginal hooker for fun.
At the trial, the jury was instructed by the judge to take into account
that the girl was a prostitute, and had agreed to engage in activities
with the two morons before deciding if they were guilty of murder or
manslaughter.
They were found guilty of manslaughter, and both were back on the street
in less than five years.
William Robb
To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is 
designed by
the post office, even the sleaze.
O'Rourke, P.J.

Re: Did you hear the one about Bob Shell?