Re: Vs: OT - Brit and proud
Lon Williamson wrote: I feel DAMNED sorry for what my ancestors did. They stole sheep. They wore cheap shoes. They spit wads of tobacco. I'm still cleaning up, and I'm pissed. lol. Some of my ancestors (Vikings) raped and pillaged the people of the country in which I live (England) and helped conquer much of it. Others sailed with the Spanish Armada who tried to conquer the British Isles. Yet more died in the Potato famine in Ireland, and the descendants of some of those who survived fought for Irish independence (and maybe still do). Others built horse drawn coaches for rich English Lords who lived in their country (Scotland). I'm more than slightly confused and try not to think too much about my ancestors! John ;-)
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OK, here´s another one: History is bunk. Henry Ford All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Päivä: 27. heinäkuuta 2003 23:15 Aihe: Re: Vs: Vs: OT - Brit and proud Don't believe everything you read, Raimo. Making blanket characterizations of any nationality is dangerous, and usually reveals more that one wishes about one's self. Raimo Korhonen wrote: This is not the final judgement, no way. But it is obvious that the average American does not know much about history - average American defined by types like George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld.
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Making blanket characterizations of any nationality is dangerous, and usually reveals more that one wishes about one's self. As to the business acumen of George W. Bush - there is not much evidence of it. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Päivä: 27. heinäkuuta 2003 23:31 Aihe: Re: Vs: Vs: Vs: OT - Brit and proud Of course, only in the US to fathers help their sons in business. Raimo Korhonen wrote: I do not know much about Rumsfeld but George W. Bush indeed made a successful business career - made possible by the help of his father. All the best!
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Hi Dan, on 25 Jul 03 you wrote in pentax.list: If you believe that, there's a nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you . . . Heiko Hamann wrote: ??? I'm quite sure that the historical looking back in Germany is on a higher and more objective level than in other countries. I'm very disappointed of the development of this thread. I didn't say that Germany has a better education system than other countries or the USA (some people seem to _want_ to read it so). But some people still come back on WWII, nazis etc. if they hear Germany and they even want to explain me that we don't know our history and that it is even prohibited by law to learn about certain historical facts... That's all absolute bullshit, but it seems that it is not possible to talk in a sensible way about it. The irony is, that I have eplained my solidarity with the US and UK soldiers in the Iraq and now have to defend against anti-German cliches. Thanks. This is my personal EOD. Cheers, Heiko
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I do not know much about Rumsfeld but George W. Bush indeed made a successful business career - made possible by the help of his father. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Päivä: 26. heinäkuuta 2003 12:50 Aihe: Re: Vs: Vs: OT - Brit and proud [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it is obvious that the average American does not know much about history - average American defined by types like George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld. Raimo, If you put aside their political beliefs (which you do not care for), you will see they are better, more accomplished men than you can hope to be. Both have been very successful in business and public service long before they reached their current positions. You would do well to study their personal history before making foolish remarks. Regards, Bob S.
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You state your point very clearly - so it´s hard to believe that some fail to understand it. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Heiko Hamann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Päivä: 26. heinäkuuta 2003 17:47 Aihe: Re: OT - Brit and proud Hi Dan, on 25 Jul 03 you wrote in pentax.list: If you believe that, there's a nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you . . . Heiko Hamann wrote: ??? I'm quite sure that the historical looking back in Germany is on a higher and more objective level than in other countries. I'm very disappointed of the development of this thread. I didn't say that Germany has a better education system than other countries or the USA (some people seem to _want_ to read it so). But some people still come back on WWII, nazis etc. if they hear Germany and they even want to explain me that we don't know our history and that it is even prohibited by law to learn about certain historical facts... That's all absolute bullshit, but it seems that it is not possible to talk in a sensible way about it. The irony is, that I have eplained my solidarity with the US and UK soldiers in the Iraq and now have to defend against anti-German cliches. Thanks. This is my personal EOD. Cheers, Heiko
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How far back do you guys want to take this? So far we are only looking at 4000 years or so. Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto reply: That's long enough. I only go back about a couple of hundred years, myself. :-) I too do not feel guilty for what my ancestors did. However, history books can report real history rather than glamorized and/or single viewpoint history (i.e. white Caucasian male of European descent, which is what it used to only be in US history books when I was growing up -- there wasn't even a descent female perspective on the suffragette movement). Which is all I was saying, and I was saying that I believe our history books do now do a better job of covering *all* American history. Calm down. :-) Marnie aka Doe I personally am not apologizing for my Viking ancestors.
Re: Vs: OT - Brit and proud
I feel DAMNED sorry for what my ancestors did. They stole sheep. They wore cheap shoes. They spit wads of tobacco. I'm still cleaning up, and I'm pissed. lol. Lon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How far back do you guys want to take this? So far we are only looking at 4000 years or so. Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto reply: That's long enough. I only go back about a couple of hundred years, myself. :-) I too do not feel guilty for what my ancestors did. However, history books can report real history rather than glamorized and/or single viewpoint history (i.e. white Caucasian male of European descent, which is what it used to only be in US history books when I was growing up -- there wasn't even a descent female perspective on the suffragette movement). Which is all I was saying, and I was saying that I believe our history books do now do a better job of covering *all* American history. Calm down. :-) Marnie aka Doe I personally am not apologizing for my Viking ancestors.
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Well - at least compared with USA Heiko is right. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Päivä: 25. heinäkuuta 2003 19:53 Aihe: Re: OT - Brit and proud If you believe that, there's a nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you . . . Heiko Hamann wrote: ??? I'm quite sure that the historical looking back in Germany is on a higher and more objective level than in other countries.
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You're qualified to make that final judgement, eh Raimo? Not from what I've seen. In any case, I thought this thread had died. But there are a few who just won't give it up. And they're not Americans. Raimo Korhonen wrote: Well - at least compared with USA Heiko is right. All the best! Raimo Personal photography homepage at http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho -Alkuperäinen viesti- Lähettäjä: Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vastaanottaja: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Päivä: 25. heinäkuuta 2003 19:53 Aihe: Re: OT - Brit and proud If you believe that, there's a nice bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell to you . . . Heiko Hamann wrote: ??? I'm quite sure that the historical looking back in Germany is on a higher and more objective level than in other countries.
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Too bad he wasn't born here, un-constitutional you know. At 08:09 PM 7/17/03 -0500, Sid Barris wrote: on 7/17/03 5:20 PM, Robert Harris at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Bob Harris How is it that you Brits, generally speaking of course, are so much more eloquent and articulate? I listened to both the Blair speech (GW owes Blair a huge debt of gratitude) and Bush's remarks, and the brief question and answer session that took place today. I found Bush to be tongue-tied, hesitant, and generally ill-at-ease while Tony Blair was simply brilliant and oh-so-in-command of the english language. I'd vote for Blair. If the prime minister somehow loses his position in England, and (I'm being half-serious here) miraculously became a citizen of the USA, he'd get elected on any ballot he put his name. Sid B To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
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I always thought that was why they liked us more than they like French. Not why they were more articulate. At 06:41 AM 7/18/03 -0600, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Sid Barras Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud How is it that you Brits, generally speaking of course, are so much more eloquent and articulate? Its because they live closer to the French. William Robb To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
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We feel the same way about you William. At 06:05 PM 7/18/03 -0600, you wrote: Bob, I do feel for you, and your son, but don't forget, your son was part of an invading army. You want to invade someones country, and bomb the crap out of them, thats fine. You think that they won't fight back, you are a fool. I do love you people, and mostly you are terrific neighbors, but I do wish you had some common sense. William Robb - Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Forgive me for going off here. This pisses me off. It's not about anything as trivial as vengeance, dumbshit. Assuming that it is about vengeance (as expressed in your post) shows an appalling lack of intellect being applied to the events of this day. It's about removing a dangerous bully from the world scene so that he can no longer invade his neighbors, torture his own people and gas whole towns killing nearly every man, woman and child. That's why September the 11th was referred to as a prologue. Get it? PROLOGUE! Meaning the BEGINNING of this sort of hell if we don't start doing something about it. It is not a new war, it is an extension of the original Gulf war inasmuch as Saddam Hussein did not live up to the terms demanded for ceasing the action against him. Now my son has returned from Iraq. His left foot, from the shin down, has now been amputated as well as the forward half of his right foot. He is down to 110 lbs and wracked with pain. When I talked with him about his experience he told of folks in the northern town where he was serving throwing flowers on him and his buddies nearly every day. He listened to the people tell him about the atrocities perpetrated upon them and their children as they showed him some of their scars. He said, Dad, these are good people who never deserved what Hussein did to them. Now you say, effectively, that these boys who answered this call have been and are giving their lives for nothing, for that's all vengeance is. That my boy gave up his feet for nothing, because you claim it's about something as trivial as vengeance. F*ck you. Freedom is never free, you ass. It is bought with the terrible price of the blood of better men than you. Now I note your .de extension. As I understand it, The Father Land has a rich history of such things itself. (Was Hungary - now Kuwait, Was Jews - now Kurds, was the SS - now the Republican Guard, Was a regime that stood for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition - Saddam is/was the same, etc.) Perhaps you long for those days of yesteryear and are saddened to see a kindred spirit fall. Sig Heil! (or whatever) Regards, Bob... Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? -Martin Luther From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Tony said: September the 11th was not an isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and many further struggles will be set upon this stage before it's over. What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic! Cheers, Hans. --- Robert Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony Blair is in Washington and gave a speech to a joint session of Congress this afternoon. People who heard it say it was brilliantly delivered. I did not hear it but read the text and find it admirable. Worth a read -- at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6801-2003Jul17.html?nav=hpto p_ts Bob Harris frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
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That would all be really nice if we had actually put him in power. We can thank the Russians for that. (Funny how he hated the communists but took their aid to set up a police state). At 05:58 PM 7/18/03 -0700, you wrote: Hindsight is much simpler. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:50 PM Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud - Original Message - From: Steve Larson Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud So we should have sent Saddam pretty flowers instead of removing him from power? Perhaps you shouldn't have put him in power in the first place. Everything was fine until he slipped his leash. William Robb To grasp the true meaning of socialism, imagine a world where everything is designed by the post office, even the sleaze. O'Rourke, P.J.
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From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let me give you a what would have been, if ... story: - 1937: British and French troops invade Germany. Hitler is killed. - Almost all Germans are thinking: Hitler was not a wrong guy. What the hell, gives them the right to remove him. This opinion is shared by the Austrian, Italian, Spain, Russian and US. Bullpucky! It is not yet 1938 and Hitler has not even mobilized his military Nobody's going to start a war at this point. Iraq, on the other hand, invaded and occupied Kiwait, therefore: this is Bull, - 1939: Another national party gets the total power in Germany. The production of weapons is increased dramatically. this is Bull, - 1941: Some German scientists invent the posibilty to built an atomic bomb. this is Bull, - 1944: Germany starts the war by laying Paris and Moskow in ruins. and this is Bull. - 1945: War is over. Germany and its allied nations rules Europe, Asia and Africa owning almost 90% of all world wide oil reserves... Further, when the US finishes a war, we do not leave the country in a power vacuum. Following WWII, we ran Japan for some seven years specifically preventing the above garbage. I don't remember offhand how long the Allies ran Germany. According to the Encyclopedia, in May of 1938, Hitler mobilized his military to annex Czechoslovakia's German-speaking Sudetenland -- but halted when Britain, France, and Stalin's Soviet Union threatened war if he did so. Hitler backed down, but he wouldn't let the matter rest. On September 15, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain visited Hitler to discuss a peaceful solution to the Sudetenland question. In a followup meeting on September 22, Chamberlain agreed to allow Hitler to annex the Sudeten region. But Hitler wasn't satisfied! He wanted German troops to enter the Sudetenland at once -- something Chamberlain refused to allow. With war looking imminent, on September 23, the Czechoslovakian military mobilized to defend against Nazi Germany. Poland then made its move. On September 27, seeing that Czechoslovakia was in dire straits with Nazi troops readying to invade, Poland issued an ultimatum, demanding that Czechoslovakia hand over its Tesin (Teschen) district. Two days later, on September 29, France, Britain, Germany, and Italy signed the Munich Agreement. It allowed Hitler to have the Sudetenland in exchange for him agreeing to guarantee Czechoslovakia's borders -- but only after Poland and Hungary had taken their shares! Britain and France not only sold out Czechoslovakia to Hitler -- but to Poland and Hungary too! The sellout appears in Article 1 of the Munich Agreement. According to the Encyclopedia [Vol. 1, p. 8]: As Article 1 of the agreement put it, 'when the question of the Polish and Hungarian minorities in Czechoslovakia has been settled, Germany and Italy will each give a similar guarantee to Czechoslovakia'. Poland had been first to share in the spoils. After an ultimatum from Warsaw on September 27, 1938, Czechoslovakia had ceded to Poland the district of Tesin (Teschen) -- an area of some 625 square miles with a population of 230,000 people. After signing the Munich Agreement, Chamberlain flew back to Britain, declaring that the Agreement meant peace in our time! But it was not to be. Poland took its piece of Czechoslovakia first. Then Hungary helped itself to some of Czechoslovakia's Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia region. Hungary said it had been stolen from them after World War One by the 1920 Treaty of Trianon. To make matters worse, even while it was being dismembered, Czechoslovakia was contending with demands for independence from its Slovakian region. And so, now trying to appease its own citizens, Czechoslovakia agreed to grant more autonomy to Slovakia, and to hyphenate the country's name, so that it became Czecho-Slovakia. Abandoned by its allies and threatened with civil war, Czecho-Slovakia was unable to fight its neighbors. Instead, it allowed Germany, Hungary, and Poland to bite off pieces, hoping they'd eventually all be satisfied and go away. But it was not to be. According to the Encyclopedia [Vol. 1, p. 8]: Having appeased the Polish and Hungarian demands in accordance with the Munich Agreement, Czecho-Slovakia was now entitled to ask for the promised guarantees from Italy and Germany. On November 5, Chvalkovsky raised the point in a discussion with Dr. Hencke, German chargé d'affaires in Prague, only to be dismissed with the reply: 'The question of the guarantee will not arise until the new frontiers have been defined in detail by the commissions.' But instead of guaranteeing the new borders, Hitler took advantage of Czecho-Slovakia's internal divisions. He encouraged Slovakia to declare independence, so he could more easily take the remaining Czech region. As enticement, in March 1939, Hitler promised Slovakia that if it declared independence, he would
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Hans Imglueck wrote: [a bunch of garbage I won't repeat] You give credit to Russia for defeating Hitler, rather than Britain and the US. Interesting. First, it was the USSR, not Russia, and at that time it was led by a Georgian, not a Russian. Second, the USSR did not come to Europe's aid voluntarily. It made a separate peace with Nazi Germany to be able to take a big piece of Poland. Germany broke the treaty by invading The Soviet Union, leaving it no choice but to enter the war on the side of the allies. American aid was vital in helping the SU stay in the war, long before Normandy. The US entered the war to free Europe and restore the countries to independence and democracy. The USSR entered the war to defend itself and to grab land in Eastern Europe, including East Germany. After the war, the US gave great financial assistance to rebuild Europe, including West Germany, and left western Europe to govern itself. The USSR imposed its will on Eastern Europe, and enslaved millions of people for several decades. If you can't see the difference, then you don't want to.
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The amazing thing about this recent discussion about European history, circa 19-Pre Pentax, is how different the views are depending on whether you live in Europe, with first hand knowledge of history, or America, with at best, second hand knowledge. History books and Encyclopedias are written by the victors, in language that makes them look as good a possible. It has always been this way, and is why much of history books and encyclopedias cannot really be trusted to tell more than a biased version, expressing some facts, and forgetting others, giving some opinions as truth, ignoring others as lies. Can we get back to bitching about the *ist lens mount now please? William Robb
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Hi! You really don't want me to join the most recent political debate. I happen to have pretty good knowledge of WWII war as it was taught in late 1980's in school in Moscow which also happened to be a capital of Soviet Union at that time grin. Bill, you're quite right about the history though. I won't be citing what I was taught about participance of US and other allies in the war. I only would cite that according to Soviet Historians the country lost 20 million of its citizens one way or another. Again, history books are written essentially with and by permission of politicians of a given country. Which means obvious biases and so on. It has to be understood that whenever the political controversy arises (I am not talking about this friendly bunch), the real truth is so deeply hidden that one has to admit to oneself that one would never know what actually happened and what were intentions behind the actions that lead to the events that one was told in the news about. Come, let us talk about Pentax or at worst Canon... Let us also keep the friendliness and mutual politeness and hopefully some tolerance too. Boris
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On 19 Jul 2003 at 16:08, Keith Whaley wrote: I will too. I promise. And I'll keep an open mind. How about you? keith Could you guys please continue privately or in another forum now? thanks. Jostein -- Photos at: http://www.oksne.net AutoPug author. Submit your images at: http://www.oksne.net/autoPug/PugForm.asp
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Hans Imglueck wrote: The wounds of WWII were not healed by removing Hitler - of course it was necessary to do this first - but by the friendship between American, French, British, German and all the others. Wise, wise words. Thank you, Hans.
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Bob S wrote: I'd swap you Slick Willie for Tony, but then you'd have to hide all your daughters. :-) A price worth paying, maybe? ;-)
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Allow me to get even further off topic. I recently finished Virtual Light by William Gibson, published in 1993. There was a character in that book; a courier named Hans Blix. Sound familiar? Had anyone here heard of the UN weapons inspector a decade ago? It seems like quite a coincidence. -Rich On 20/Jul/2003 12:57:07, Hans Imglueck wrote: Hi Bob, how often should I say: It clear that Saddam is a mass murderer. So he deserves all the hate. But why have the other unquilty people to die? You cannot sum it up the way: Saddam has killed 100, so it is legal to kill 1000 additional to remove him. Lifes cannot be added. You can also not say: We have to save the Iraqian, because Saddam will kill more. How will you know this for sure?
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Another puerile epistle from: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Bob, how often should I say: It clear that Saddam is a mass murderer. So he deserves all the hate. But why have the other unquilty people to die? Are you saying that it is the desire of the coalition that unquilty[sic] people die? Are you aware that because of great expense on the part of the US that loss of life on all sides is orders of magnitude less than would otherwise be expected? You cannot sum it up the way: Saddam has killed 100, 100,000 is an extremely low estimate. so it is legal to kill 1000 additional to remove him. Lifes cannot be added. You can also not say: We have to save the Iraqian, because Saddam will kill more. How will you know this for sure? Well, same argument used by the antiwar crowd prior to and through the beginning of WWII. There is only one way to know for sure now, isn't there? Just wait and let Hussein either kill thousands more... or not. Of course this has continually been Hussein's method of maintaining control of his populace since his assumption of power, but hey, who knows? Maybe he changed! Maybe we got Hitler all wrong! Perhaps Stalin was really a choir boy! We have not always been right. Prior to WWII, a Brit named Chamberlain (Do you know who he was, Hans?) believed he could arrive at an agreement with Evil. It wasn't very many more months before the bombing of Briton began. At the beginning of WWII in 1939, The French held back with a decision to give Hitler more time. By the time they realized their error it was too late to stop your country from marching into Paris. We have not always been right either. While France was already under occupation and Briton was already under attack, we held back from coming to the aid of Europe. Because of the opposition of the Left and the pacifists in this country, we didn't enter the war until our own nose had been bloodied. Churchill described us by saying (roughly) that the US could always be counted on to do the right thing - after trying everything else first! We are grateful that Briton forgave us for being late, even though surely it cost them many lives. At the end of the war, US president Truman, more than any other man, was responsible for giving Poland, Hungary and much of Eastern Europe to Stalin. God forgive us, millions died and millions were plunged into a darkness where there would be no liberty for 50 or so years. Well, this time we decided not give Hungary to Hitler in order to obtain ...peace in our time. We (the coalition) kicked Hussein's butt out of Kuwait, but forgive us, we offered peace to Evil in exchange for certain specific demands. Well, even when given TWELVE years, Hussein managed to ignore and or violate EVERY point and demand to which he signed. During this time hundreds of thousands more were purged and tortured. The blood of all these people are now on our hands. No more! Now I know that you don't like this. We are all aware that Hussein's government owes France, Belgium, Germany and Russia tens of billions of dollars. We are all aware that France and Germany are vying to be the leader of the European Union, and that rather than earn the position by raising themselves up, they see bringing others (US Briton) down as a shortcut to this power. Russia sees it's wealth and power as coming from being the arms dealer to this area of the world (Those aren't French, German or US weapons used there). You see the world presented to you through this filter and can't imagine that you are wrong. Even if you did, how would you survive the ostracism you would surely receive from your associates? My faith tells something different and this might be interesting for all who are believing in Jesus Christ. Read Matthew (Mt) 13,24-30! This is the way God is doing. I suggest that ...if you do not have a sword, that you go out and sell your cloak and buy one. I also tell you that ...the state does not wield the sword for nothing. Further I urge you to search the scriptures to discover the manner in which God deals with _nations_. I leave it as an exercise to you to find the references. Bob... Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? -Martin Luther
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What was presented was a chilling analogy of our times in relation to recent history. Unrelated and not directed at you... A Neo-Nazi movement is awakening in Europe and in Germany. Don't bury your head in the sand, lest it's tenants affect European thought. Regards, Bob... Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? -Martin Luther From: Heiko Hamann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Bob, on 18 Jul 03 you wrote in pentax.list: Now I note your .de extension. As I understand it, The Father Land has a rich history of such things itself. (Was Hungary - now Kuwait, I can understand your feelings but please don't use these anachronisms any more. The Nazi regime ended a long time ago and - thanks to our American, British and French friends - Germany is a democracy. Like not all Americans were for the war, not all Europeans were against. I think in great respect of those brave American and British soldiers, risking their lives to bring freedom to a surpressed people. And I would have wished more solidarity with our allies - the USA and UK - instead of the Iraqi regime. I hope that your son is on the road to recovery and I wish him and your family all the best.
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What is necessary is opposing Evil at its every appearance. Regards, Bob... Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? -Martin Luther From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To be absolutely sure it is perhaps neccesary to kill (almost) all humans on this earth! --- Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not about vengeance. It's about making sure it never happens again. Hans Imglueck wrote: Hi, Tony said: September the 11th was not an isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and many further struggles will be set upon this stage before it's over. What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic!
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Blame Canada! Cartman William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Dan Matyola Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud It will go on until allthe terrorists and brutal dictators have no place to hide . . . Ah, Washington is next? WW
Re: OT - Brit and proud (was: Unidentified subject!
My politics is between my brain and my fingers on this list. I suspect the feet fingers. ;-) Caveman, each hairy little one. lol. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
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http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1097399,00.html cheers, caveman (stirring the pot ;-) Dr. Kelly' lived 5 miles from me in a village called Southmoor. It is huge news here and the world press is ensconced there. I flew in a helicopter over the area where his body was found yesterday to get some footage for several news organisations. His death is a tragedy. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: OT - Brit and proud
I do not mind Cotty to be proud of anything, including being Brit. And if you guys want Tony for President, of whatever country -- more power to you. For the record, I repeat: My politics is between my brain and my fingers on this list. Just because I wrote 'Brit and proud' in the subject line doesn't necessarily mean that I am. However, the opposite could be true. No, I was just stirring ;-) Interesting seeing the reactions though. However, I am now regretting this action and would like to apologise to all for starting a thread hinting at politics on the list. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Cotty wrote: However, I am now regretting this action and would like to apologise to all for starting a thread hinting at politics on the list. Thanks Cotty. And I'd like to apologize for responding to the replies. Paul
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Hans, I don't understand. At the same time you are writing this, I am hearing on the radio about the discovery of a mass grave site. A field full of women and children killed with bullets to the skull. How can you only talk of the minor civilian casualties, and ignore the hundreds of thousands executed by Saddam? Is your mind so closed? Is your hearing so selective? Is your press so controlled that they write only what the government wants to hear? Regards, Bob S. Hans Imglueck wrote: Okay, Saddam is a criminal, but none of the children which have died or are injured are criminals.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 01:16, Paul Stenquist wrote: Frits Wüthrich wrote: Yes, the Americans finally found them, it seems someone moved them, just before the Iraq war started, to North-Korea. Ah yes, Frits. And if only someone had moved Hitler's weapons before World War II, millions of lives could have been spared. But you Germans are above it all, aren't you? Me, a German? Where did you get that idea from? I know more examples of situations where millions of lives could have been spared. -- Frits Wüthrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Cotty wrote: http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1097399,00.html cheers, caveman (stirring the pot ;-) Dr. Kelly' lived 5 miles from me in a village called Southmoor. It is huge news here and the world press is ensconced there. I flew in a helicopter over the area where his body was found yesterday to get some footage for several news organisations. His death is a tragedy. Cheers, Cotty It is indeed. News here indicates he was despondent over the way he was treated by his questioners on the Foreign Affairs Committee. Labour party MP Andrew MacKinlay suggested to him that he was really just a fall guy. As he called it, chaff sent up to divert probing by the legislature. Maybe despondent is not quite the right word, but to use his wife's words, ...he was very, very stressed, angry and unhappy about what happened in committee. He (Dr. Kelly) had hopes of the Defense Ministry stepping in (and saving him?) but it seems it wasn't in the cards. Sad, but yet another victim of government's crass manners, the obsessive need to find someone they can blame. The witch hunt is on. They always find the wrong people... keith
Re: OT - Brit and proud
If you wanna leave - leave! I won't miss you! From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is all known by me. Best regards, Hans. ...and worst regards to you, glueck. When you and Mishka take every opprortunity to turn the PDML into an avenue for spreading your pseudo-wisdom, it is time for me to leave. Bob - Whatever the best is for your son, I hope for it. May he heal and prosper. Goodbye for now. Ed Matthew
Re: OT - Brit and proud Paul ist doof!
Mann Paule, Du bist doch wirklich scheißedoof nur weil einer Frits heißt soll er gleich ein Deutscher sein? Ersten schreibt man Fritz im deutschen mit tz, und zweitens ist im deutschen auch Paul ein sehr geläufiger Vorname - bist Du deshalb ein Deutscher? Paul Hirndepp Stenquist wrote: Ah yes, Frits. And if only someone had moved Hitler's weapons before World War II, millions of lives could have been spared. But you Germans are above it all, aren't you?
Re: OT - Brit and proud
What does MP stand for in this context? Every time I see it I think of Military Police, although I suspect it actually refers to a member of the House of Lords or House of Commons. Could it be Member of Parliament? -Rich On 19/Jul/2003 10:21:00, Keith Whaley wrote: snip Labour party MP Andrew MacKinlay suggested to him that he was really just a fall guy. snip
Re: OT - Brit and proud
When I use it, yes sir Member of Parliament. keith whaley Richard Klein wrote: What does MP stand for in this context? Every time I see it I think of Military Police, although I suspect it actually refers to a member of the House of Lords or House of Commons. Could it be Member of Parliament? -Rich On 19/Jul/2003 10:21:00, Keith Whaley wrote: snip Labour party MP Andrew MacKinlay suggested to him that he was really just a fall guy. snip
RE: OT - Brit and proud
Hmmm...vengeance is always a positive step toward world peace isn't it? Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Hans Imglueck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 18 July 2003 3:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Hi, Tony said: September the 11th was not an isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and many further struggles will be set upon this stage before it's over. What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic! Cheers, Hans. --- Robert Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony Blair is in Washington and gave a speech to a joint session of Congress this afternoon. People who heard it say it was brilliantly delivered. I did not hear it but read the text and find it admirable. Worth a read -- at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6801-2003Jul17.html?nav= hptop_ts Bob Harris frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
That gentleman, whose mother never said no to a sailor, could have been born anywhere. Don ___ Dr E D F Williams http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery Updated: March 30, 2002 - Original Message - From: Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:46 AM Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud - Original Message - From: Sid Barras [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd vote for Blair. If the prime minister somehow loses his position in England, and (I'm being half-serious here) miraculously became a citizen of the USA, he'd get elected on any ballot he put his name. Sid B I don't disagree with your sentiments (I just read the speech and it WAS good), but, to be President of the US you need to be born here (the US, that is) Christian
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Yes please! Any job for him is welcome, just as long as he has to leave the UK!! His speech to Congress was totally insincere and frankly sick-making. Yes, I was sick. John
Re: OT - Brit and proud
frank theriault wrote: What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? Frank, Don't be silly! Bliar just happened to mention that, even if no WMD were ever found (as looks increasingly likely), history would judge Bliar kindly for taking Britain into an illegal war. (the Iraq would be defined as illegal under UK law if no WMD were found, as they were Bliar's justification for the war - the SOLE justification) John
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Sid Barras wrote: I found Bush to be tongue-tied, hesitant, and generally ill-at-ease while Tony Blair was simply brilliant and oh-so-in-command of the english language. That's because Blair is a highly intelligent, highly educated glib lawyer who is also an accomplished liar. Remind you of anyone? I'd vote for Blair. If the prime minister somehow loses his position in England, and (I'm being half-serious here) miraculously became a citizen of the USA, he'd get elected on any ballot he put his name. Just as Clinton was (and is) extremely popular in the UK, and would win any UK election by a huge majority. They are like two peas from the same pod. You are welcome to Bliar - please give him US citizenship and a job just as soon as you possibly can.
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Herb Chong wrote: they have had their share of less than competent too. Absolutely right. Bliar is absolutely the worst Prime Minister we have had since ... the last Labour Prime Minister. Don't be fooled: Britain loves Clinton - because we only saw the persona he chose to present to Britain, and were too far removed to see what he was really like at home. If Americans knew what Bliar was really like, they would not allow him ever to enter their borders. I wish he could be prevented from re-entering *our* borders too!
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Shaun Canning wrote: Hmmm...vengeance is always a positive step toward world peace isn't it? Especially when that vengeance is directed at a country which had *not even the slightest involvement* in what was being avenged ...
Re: OT - Brit and proud
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] whickersworld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: frank theriault wrote: What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? Frank, Don't be silly! Bliar just happened to mention that, even if no WMD were ever found (as looks increasingly likely), history would judge Bliar kindly for taking Britain into an illegal war. (the Iraq would be defined as illegal under UK law if no WMD were found, as they were Bliar's justification for the war - the SOLE justification) John Under UK law the government (the Crown) is entitled to make war on whoever it chooses, whether with the consent of Parliament or without. No court in the land could declare a war to be illegal under Uk law because the concept of an 'illegal' war does not exist. International law is another matter, but who has the power to enforce international law against two of the most powerful countries in the world? Certainly not the UN. Regards, DAM. -- Donald A Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT - Brit and proud
- Original Message - From: Sid Barras Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud How is it that you Brits, generally speaking of course, are so much more eloquent and articulate? Its because they live closer to the French. William Robb
Re: OT - Brit and proud
If you insist on discussing politics on a photography forum, at least address the issues, instead of insulting someone's mother. Dr E D F Williams wrote: That gentleman, whose mother never said no to a sailor, could have been born anywhere.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
It will go on until allthe terrorists and brutal dictators have no place to hide . . . Hans Imglueck wrote: What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic!
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Quoting Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I don't disagree with your sentiments (I just read the speech and it WAS good), but, to be President of the US you need to be born here Plus you need a very smart brother with a lot of connections in the state of Florida g
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Hi Dan, sad to hear that. Those people who are fighting all time against the evil will become sooner or later themselves evil, e.g. begin a terroristic war with no legitimation. A dictator is somebody who captures people with no chance for justification, no court of justice to go to, like in Guantanamo Bay. Evil can only be overcome with love and peace. I think there are now more terrorists in the world than befor the war against Iraq. Regards, Hans. --- Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It will go on until allthe terrorists and brutal dictators have no place to hide . . . Hans Imglueck wrote: What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic! _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
No, it won't be over after that. They will find new terrorists, even if there is no one left... Alex Sarbu - Original Message - From: Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 2:54 PM Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud It will go on until allthe terrorists and brutal dictators have no place to hide . . . Hans Imglueck wrote: What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic!
Re: OT - Brit and proud
sick-making? whickersworld wrote: Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Yes please! Any job for him is welcome, just as long as he has to leave the UK!! His speech to Congress was totally insincere and frankly sick-making.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
So we should have sent Saddam pretty flowers instead of removing him from power? Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California Hans Imglueck wrote: Evil can only be overcome with love and peace. I think there are now more terrorists in the world than befor the war against Iraq. Regards, Hans.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Chamberlain tried that with Hitler. IIRC, it didn't work too well. Hans Imglueck wrote: Evil can only be overcome with love and peace.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
I don't insist at all. I've made no political comment up to now. And this one is about Bliar's possible origin. Don PS: Don't start on me Dan, I don't have much patience right now. ___ Dr E D F Williams http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery Updated: March 30, 2002 - Original Message - From: Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 3:51 PM Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud If you insist on discussing politics on a photography forum, at least address the issues, instead of insulting someone's mother. Dr E D F Williams wrote: That gentleman, whose mother never said no to a sailor, could have been born anywhere.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
dude, are you implying someone should start bombing DC? hold your horses! mishka From: Dan Matyola It will go on until allthe terrorists and brutal dictators have no place to hide . . .
Re: OT - Brit and proud
This would have perhaps really helped more to reduce the number of terrorist in the world. But obviously it is much harder to send flowers than sending bombs. By the way: If you come to San Francisco, be sure to ware some flowers in your hair.. :-) Yeah, flower power! Regards, Hans. --- Steve Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So we should have sent Saddam pretty flowers instead of removing him from power? Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California Hans Imglueck wrote: Evil can only be overcome with love and peace. I think there are now more terrorists in the world than befor the war against Iraq. Regards, Hans. _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Saddam has had not the power to do what Hitler has done. In his case a war was not necessary. Hitler forced the war and I do think that self defence is the right of each human being. Saddam has not started the fire. The wounds of WWII were not healed by removing Hitler - of course it was necessary to do this first - but by the friendship between American, French, British, German and all the others. Best regards, Hans. --- Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chamberlain tried that with Hitler. IIRC, it didn't work too well. Hans Imglueck wrote: Evil can only be overcome with love and peace. _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Hans Imglueck wrote: Saddam has had not the power to do what Hitler has done. In his case a war was not necessary. Hitler forced the war and I do think that self defence is the right of each human being. Saddam has not started the fire. Time to do some research and reading, Hans... Look carefully at all the atrocities committed by Saddam, and see if you can say what you just said with a straight face. Interview the Iraqi people and see how they fared under his oppressive regime. Pay attention to all the graves of the Kurds, and others he disliked. MASS graves, mind you. Saddam's fire burned his own people as well of those of many other ethnic groups. Literally tens of thousands of people are now dead, as a direct result of Saddam's actions. And, also keep in mind this has occurred over tens of years, not a few months. He has a long, well-documented history of abuse and cruelty and decimation of his own people. How can that NOT be considered? He was a very dangerous despot, and eventually everybody will be better off with him out of power. keith whaley The wounds of WWII were not healed by removing Hitler - of course it was necessary to do this first - but by the friendship between American, French, British, German and all the others. Best regards, Hans. --- Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chamberlain tried that with Hitler. IIRC, it didn't work too well. Hans Imglueck wrote: Evil can only be overcome with love and peace. _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Forgive me for going off here. This pisses me off. It's not about anything as trivial as vengeance, dumbshit. Assuming that it is about vengeance (as expressed in your post) shows an appalling lack of intellect being applied to the events of this day. It's about removing a dangerous bully from the world scene so that he can no longer invade his neighbors, torture his own people and gas whole towns killing nearly every man, woman and child. That's why September the 11th was referred to as a prologue. Get it? PROLOGUE! Meaning the BEGINNING of this sort of hell if we don't start doing something about it. It is not a new war, it is an extension of the original Gulf war inasmuch as Saddam Hussein did not live up to the terms demanded for ceasing the action against him. Now my son has returned from Iraq. His left foot, from the shin down, has now been amputated as well as the forward half of his right foot. He is down to 110 lbs and wracked with pain. When I talked with him about his experience he told of folks in the northern town where he was serving throwing flowers on him and his buddies nearly every day. He listened to the people tell him about the atrocities perpetrated upon them and their children as they showed him some of their scars. He said, Dad, these are good people who never deserved what Hussein did to them. Now you say, effectively, that these boys who answered this call have been and are giving their lives for nothing, for that's all vengeance is. That my boy gave up his feet for nothing, because you claim it's about something as trivial as vengeance. F*ck you. Freedom is never free, you ass. It is bought with the terrible price of the blood of better men than you. Now I note your .de extension. As I understand it, The Father Land has a rich history of such things itself. (Was Hungary - now Kuwait, Was Jews - now Kurds, was the SS - now the Republican Guard, Was a regime that stood for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition - Saddam is/was the same, etc.) Perhaps you long for those days of yesteryear and are saddened to see a kindred spirit fall. Sig Heil! (or whatever) Regards, Bob... Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? -Martin Luther From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Tony said: September the 11th was not an isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and many further struggles will be set upon this stage before it's over. What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic! Cheers, Hans. --- Robert Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony Blair is in Washington and gave a speech to a joint session of Congress this afternoon. People who heard it say it was brilliantly delivered. I did not hear it but read the text and find it admirable. Worth a read -- at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6801-2003Jul17.html?nav=hpto p_ts Bob Harris frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud (was: Unidentified subject!
It's just occurred to me. When Cotty said Tony Blair for President he was trying to get someone to take him up on it, right? g Keith, you should know me better than that. My politics is between my brain and my fingers on this list. Just because I wrote 'Brit and proud' in the subject line doesn't necessarily mean that I am. However, the opposite could be true. No, I was just stirring ;-) Interesting seeing the reactions though. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: OT - Brit and proud (was: Unidentified subject!
Cotty wrote: It's just occurred to me. When Cotty said Tony Blair for President he was trying to get someone to take him up on it, right? g Keith, you should know me better than that. My politics is between my brain and my fingers on this list. Just because I wrote 'Brit and proud' in the subject line doesn't necessarily mean that I am. However, the opposite could be true. No, I was just stirring ;-) Interesting seeing the reactions though. It's when the stew is stirred that the interesting bits come to the top... g keith Cheers, Cotty
Re: OT - Brit and proud (was: Unidentified subject!
Cotty wrote: My politics is between my brain and my fingers on this list. I suspect the feet fingers. ;-) cheers, caveman
Re: OT - Brit and proud
What gives him the right to throw flames like that? By the way I know about his sons sad situation. Lets just keep politics out of this list. /Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:45:39 -0400 Bob, Those are world class flames you are throwing, and I think you have the right. I'll just say that I don't believe that all with a .de extension are so ignorant. Regards, Bob S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sig Heil! (or whatever) _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Of course his situation is sad, but peoples inability to distinguish between personal experience, lust for revenge, and international politics is one of the reasons why wars evolve. Over reactions from both sides are bad. There is no excuse for increasing the conflict. If it is allowed, both sides have the same right to respond. Besides that, I agree with your last sentence and will not continue. DagT På fredag, 18. juli 2003, kl. 21:00, skrev Paul Eriksson: What gives him the right to throw flames like that? By the way I know about his sons sad situation. Lets just keep politics out of this list. /Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:45:39 -0400 Bob, Those are world class flames you are throwing, and I think you have the right. I'll just say that I don't believe that all with a .de extension are so ignorant. Regards, Bob S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sig Heil! (or whatever) _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: OT - Brit and proud
This is all known by me. And I wish to see Saddam in front of a court like the one in Bruxeles to be judged and punished for all his crimes. But it is not justified in any way to begin a war because of this (were will you end up, if this is consequentely followed all over the world?). A war that kills thousands of people that have nothing to do with the crimes of Saddam. Were they asked if they want to die for that? And now, is Saddam captured? After all the victims? The method of war is as unsuccessful as the way of the law. Saddam is free. Best regards, Hans. --- Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hans Imglueck wrote: Saddam has had not the power to do what Hitler has done. In his case a war was not necessary. Hitler forced the war and I do think that self defence is the right of each human being. Saddam has not started the fire. Time to do some research and reading, Hans... Look carefully at all the atrocities committed by Saddam, and see if you can say what you just said with a straight face. Interview the Iraqi people and see how they fared under his oppressive regime. Pay attention to all the graves of the Kurds, and others he disliked. MASS graves, mind you. Saddam's fire burned his own people as well of those of many other ethnic groups. Literally tens of thousands of people are now dead, as a direct result of Saddam's actions. And, also keep in mind this has occurred over tens of years, not a few months. He has a long, well-documented history of abuse and cruelty and decimation of his own people. How can that NOT be considered? He was a very dangerous despot, and eventually everybody will be better off with him out of power. keith whaley The wounds of WWII were not healed by removing Hitler - of course it was necessary to do this first - but by the friendship between American, French, British, German and all the others. Best regards, Hans. --- Dan Matyola [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chamberlain tried that with Hitler. IIRC, it didn't work too well. Hans Imglueck wrote: Evil can only be overcome with love and peace. _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Hello Bob, you have my full sympathy for your son. As I express also in my last email I know that Saddam has commited an endless row of crimes and should be punished for this. But why has it to be by a war were thousands of people have to die or are injured who have nothing to do with this crimes. Indeed your son is one of them. In this case there was no need for a war. There are many more of these dictators in the world. Some of them are called friends of the USA. I think even last week Bush shook the hand of one in Africa. I hope that after all these victims in Iraq the land will make the same good way as Germany did after WWII. Then the wounds of your son might be indeed not in vain. That stands in the hands of God. But it is also my meaning that war is not the way to bring peace and freedom in the world. Indeed freedom is not for free. It cost each of us some struggle. Gods says: The truth will make you free. Not the weapons. Best regards, Hans. --- Bob Blakely [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forgive me for going off here. This pisses me off. It's not about anything as trivial as vengeance, dumbshit. Assuming that it is about vengeance (as expressed in your post) shows an appalling lack of intellect being applied to the events of this day. It's about removing a dangerous bully from the world scene so that he can no longer invade his neighbors, torture his own people and gas whole towns killing nearly every man, woman and child. That's why September the 11th was referred to as a prologue. Get it? PROLOGUE! Meaning the BEGINNING of this sort of hell if we don't start doing something about it. It is not a new war, it is an extension of the original Gulf war inasmuch as Saddam Hussein did not live up to the terms demanded for ceasing the action against him. Now my son has returned from Iraq. His left foot, from the shin down, has now been amputated as well as the forward half of his right foot. He is down to 110 lbs and wracked with pain. When I talked with him about his experience he told of folks in the northern town where he was serving throwing flowers on him and his buddies nearly every day. He listened to the people tell him about the atrocities perpetrated upon them and their children as they showed him some of their scars. He said, Dad, these are good people who never deserved what Hussein did to them. Now you say, effectively, that these boys who answered this call have been and are giving their lives for nothing, for that's all vengeance is. That my boy gave up his feet for nothing, because you claim it's about something as trivial as vengeance. F*ck you. Freedom is never free, you ass. It is bought with the terrible price of the blood of better men than you. Now I note your .de extension. As I understand it, The Father Land has a rich history of such things itself. (Was Hungary - now Kuwait, Was Jews - now Kurds, was the SS - now the Republican Guard, Was a regime that stood for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition - Saddam is/was the same, etc.) Perhaps you long for those days of yesteryear and are saddened to see a kindred spirit fall. Sig Heil! (or whatever) Regards, Bob... Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? -Martin Luther From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Tony said: September the 11th was not an isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and many further struggles will be set upon this stage before it's over. What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic! Cheers, Hans. --- Robert Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony Blair is in Washington and gave a speech to a joint session of Congress this afternoon. People who heard it say it was brilliantly delivered. I did not hear it but read the text and find it admirable. Worth a read -- at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6801-2003Jul17.html?nav=hpto p_ts Bob Harris frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson _ 23a mail
Re: OT - Brit and proud
From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is all known by me. Best regards, Hans. ...and worst regards to you, glueck. When you and Mishka take every opprortunity to turn the PDML into an avenue for spreading your pseudo-wisdom, it is time for me to leave. Bob - Whatever the best is for your son, I hope for it. May he heal and prosper. Goodbye for now. Ed Matthew _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: OT - Brit and proud
On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 23:16, frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? Yes, the Americans finally found them, it seems someone moved them, just before the Iraq war started, to North-Korea. -- Frits Wüthrich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT - Brit and proud
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Apilado) wrote: Could it be that the UK has a better education system that produces leaders that are unmatched on the planet? Nope. But it is impossible to become Prime Minister without being pretty articulate, in certain specialised ways. The degree to which social class here is indicated by speech also has something to do with it. GWB's speaking manner would likely rule him out for selection as a candidate for Parliament - and as a candidate to be a US congressman? To be Prime Minister, you have to be an MP and to have been one for some time; becoming PM involves similar processes to becoming a House Majority Leader in the USA. --- John Dallman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Hi, only one comment to the word revenge which obviously caused somt of the reactions: As I understand Osama bin Laden is responsible for 11th of September. So going for him, bringing him for a court and punishing him is good and will be understood by anybody in the world (except of Osama :-)). But drawing a line from Osama to some other people (in this case Saddam) as has been done by Bush (and is not the truth as we know now) and going for him and killing in that way people who has nothing to do with the whole matter, that is to me suspicious to the old way of human instincts: revenge. Okay, Saddam is a criminal, but none of the children which have died or are injured are criminals. They weren't ask whether they want to die to dismount Saddam. Was it that worth? Hopefully history will show us that this is the case. Best regards, Hans. --- Dag T [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course his situation is sad, but peoples inability to distinguish between personal experience, lust for revenge, and international politics is one of the reasons why wars evolve. Over reactions from both sides are bad. There is no excuse for increasing the conflict. If it is allowed, both sides have the same right to respond. Besides that, I agree with your last sentence and will not continue. DagT P fredag, 18. juli 2003, kl. 21:00, skrev Paul Eriksson: What gives him the right to throw flames like that? By the way I know about his sons sad situation. Lets just keep politics out of this list. /Paul From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:45:39 -0400 Bob, Those are world class flames you are throwing, and I think you have the right. I'll just say that I don't believe that all with a .de extension are so ignorant. Regards, Bob S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sig Heil! (or whatever) _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
It's response to what was flames to me. Turn about is fair play. If you don't want it, keep the politics off the list. I won't start it, buy I'll shure as hell will finish it. No right? Call a cop. From: Paul Eriksson [EMAIL PROTECTED] What gives him the right to throw flames like that? By the way I know about his sons sad situation. Lets just keep politics out of this list. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bob, Those are world class flames you are throwing, and I think you have the right. I'll just say that I don't believe that all with a .de extension are so ignorant.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Well, I wanted the fellow to know exactly what I and many others thought and felt without all the PC and without all the diplomatic crap. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bob, Those are world class flames you are throwing, and I think you have the right. I'll just say that I don't believe that all with a .de extension are so ignorant. Regards, Bob S.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
- Original Message - From: Steve Larson Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud So we should have sent Saddam pretty flowers instead of removing him from power? Perhaps you shouldn't have put him in power in the first place. Everything was fine until he slipped his leash. William Robb
Re: OT - Brit and proud
- Original Message - From: Dan Matyola Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud It will go on until allthe terrorists and brutal dictators have no place to hide . . . Ah, Washington is next? WW
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Bob, I do feel for you, and your son, but don't forget, your son was part of an invading army. You want to invade someones country, and bomb the crap out of them, thats fine. You think that they won't fight back, you are a fool. I do love you people, and mostly you are terrific neighbors, but I do wish you had some common sense. William Robb - Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Forgive me for going off here. This pisses me off. It's not about anything as trivial as vengeance, dumbshit. Assuming that it is about vengeance (as expressed in your post) shows an appalling lack of intellect being applied to the events of this day. It's about removing a dangerous bully from the world scene so that he can no longer invade his neighbors, torture his own people and gas whole towns killing nearly every man, woman and child. That's why September the 11th was referred to as a prologue. Get it? PROLOGUE! Meaning the BEGINNING of this sort of hell if we don't start doing something about it. It is not a new war, it is an extension of the original Gulf war inasmuch as Saddam Hussein did not live up to the terms demanded for ceasing the action against him. Now my son has returned from Iraq. His left foot, from the shin down, has now been amputated as well as the forward half of his right foot. He is down to 110 lbs and wracked with pain. When I talked with him about his experience he told of folks in the northern town where he was serving throwing flowers on him and his buddies nearly every day. He listened to the people tell him about the atrocities perpetrated upon them and their children as they showed him some of their scars. He said, Dad, these are good people who never deserved what Hussein did to them. Now you say, effectively, that these boys who answered this call have been and are giving their lives for nothing, for that's all vengeance is. That my boy gave up his feet for nothing, because you claim it's about something as trivial as vengeance. F*ck you. Freedom is never free, you ass. It is bought with the terrible price of the blood of better men than you. Now I note your .de extension. As I understand it, The Father Land has a rich history of such things itself. (Was Hungary - now Kuwait, Was Jews - now Kurds, was the SS - now the Republican Guard, Was a regime that stood for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition - Saddam is/was the same, etc.) Perhaps you long for those days of yesteryear and are saddened to see a kindred spirit fall. Sig Heil! (or whatever) Regards, Bob... Do not suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused. Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? -Martin Luther From: Hans Imglueck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Tony said: September the 11th was not an isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and many further struggles will be set upon this stage before it's over. What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic! Cheers, Hans. --- Robert Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony Blair is in Washington and gave a speech to a joint session of Congress this afternoon. People who heard it say it was brilliantly delivered. I did not hear it but read the text and find it admirable. Worth a read -- at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6801-2003Jul17.html?nav=hpto p_ts Bob Harris frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
Re: OT - Brit and proud
- Original Message - From: Keith Whaley Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud He was a very dangerous despot, and eventually everybody will be better off with him out of power. Whether you liked him or not, he was the apparently legitimate head of state of his country. Your government has legitimized using force to remove a head of state that isn't popular. There are some that don't like GW Bush. Would it be appropriate to assassinate him? By your government's actions, it would seem so. Unless you admit hypocrisy. Life is a two way street, remember that when this liberation comes back to haunt us all. William Robb
Re: OT - Brit and proud
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1097399,00.html cheers, caveman (stirring the pot ;-)
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Huh? Which part of my pseudo wisdom touched you this time? I do not mind Cotty to be proud of anything, including being Brit. And if you guys want Tony for President, of whatever country -- more power to you. I don't know what you have been smoking, but it doesn't look like something I would enjoy. See ya Mishka When you and Mishka take every opprortunity to turn the PDML into an avenue for spreading your pseudo-wisdom, it is time for me to leave. Goodbye for now. Ed Matthew
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Frits Wüthrich wrote: Yes, the Americans finally found them, it seems someone moved them, just before the Iraq war started, to North-Korea. Ah yes, Frits. And if only someone had moved Hitler's weapons before World War II, millions of lives could have been spared. But you Germans are above it all, aren't you?
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Paul Eriksson wrote: What gives him the right to throw flames like that? By the way I know about his sons sad situation. Lets just keep politics out of this list. He didn't start it, Paul. He just answered when he had to. What gives you the right to criticize someone who almost lost a son and merely said what he felt he had to? Isn't it ironic how insensitive our liberal bretheran can be when the shoe is on the other foot?
OT - Brit and proud
Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: OT - Brit and proud
I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Tony Blair is in Washington and gave a speech to a joint session of Congress this afternoon. People who heard it say it was brilliantly delivered. I did not hear it but read the text and find it admirable. Worth a read -- at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6801-2003Jul17.html?nav=hptop_ts Bob Harris frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: OT - Brit and proud
OH? Ciao, Graywolf http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto - Original Message - From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: OT - Brit and proud Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: OT - Brit and proud
on 7/17/03 5:20 PM, Robert Harris at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Bob Harris How is it that you Brits, generally speaking of course, are so much more eloquent and articulate? I listened to both the Blair speech (GW owes Blair a huge debt of gratitude) and Bush's remarks, and the brief question and answer session that took place today. I found Bush to be tongue-tied, hesitant, and generally ill-at-ease while Tony Blair was simply brilliant and oh-so-in-command of the english language. I'd vote for Blair. If the prime minister somehow loses his position in England, and (I'm being half-serious here) miraculously became a citizen of the USA, he'd get elected on any ballot he put his name. Sid B
Re: OT - Brit and proud
- Original Message - From: Sid Barras [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd vote for Blair. If the prime minister somehow loses his position in England, and (I'm being half-serious here) miraculously became a citizen of the USA, he'd get elected on any ballot he put his name. Sid B I don't disagree with your sentiments (I just read the speech and it WAS good), but, to be President of the US you need to be born here (the US, that is) Christian
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Can't you see Bush the Younger in front of Parliament during the questioning time. It would be a disaster. Jim A. From: Sid Barras [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:09:34 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:10:07 -0400 on 7/17/03 5:20 PM, Robert Harris at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Bob Harris How is it that you Brits, generally speaking of course, are so much more eloquent and articulate? I listened to both the Blair speech (GW owes Blair a huge debt of gratitude) and Bush's remarks, and the brief question and answer session that took place today. I found Bush to be tongue-tied, hesitant, and generally ill-at-ease while Tony Blair was simply brilliant and oh-so-in-command of the english language. I'd vote for Blair. If the prime minister somehow loses his position in England, and (I'm being half-serious here) miraculously became a citizen of the USA, he'd get elected on any ballot he put his name. Sid B
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Could it be that the UK has a better education system that produces leaders that are unmatched on the planet? Jim A. From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:45:43 +0100 To: Pentax List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT - Brit and proud Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:45:51 -0400 Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
RE: OT - Brit and proud
I dunno, for all his faults and public failings, ole 'slick willy' will be remembered as one of the greats... Cheers Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Jim Apilado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 18 July 2003 12:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Could it be that the UK has a better education system that produces leaders that are unmatched on the planet? Jim A. From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:45:43 +0100 To: Pentax List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT - Brit and proud Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:45:51 -0400 Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: OT - Brit and proud
they have had their share of less than competent too. Herb - Original Message - From: Jim Apilado [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 22:04 Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Could it be that the UK has a better education system that produces leaders that are unmatched on the planet? Jim A.
Re: OT - Brit and proud
I like Willy. I think he would do well in Parliament at question time. Jim A. From: Shaun Canning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:14:49 +1000 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Brit and proud Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:14:33 -0400 I dunno, for all his faults and public failings, ole 'slick willy' will be remembered as one of the greats... Cheers Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Jim Apilado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 18 July 2003 12:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Could it be that the UK has a better education system that produces leaders that are unmatched on the planet? Jim A. From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:45:43 +0100 To: Pentax List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT - Brit and proud Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:45:51 -0400 Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
RE: OT - Brit and proud
Yep, I reckon he'd of had some fun. There are certain prerequisites for being quick on your feet...and I'm not sure GW is quite up there with other leaders... Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Jim Apilado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 18 July 2003 12:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud I like Willy. I think he would do well in Parliament at question time. Jim A. From: Shaun Canning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 12:14:49 +1000 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: OT - Brit and proud Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:14:33 -0400 I dunno, for all his faults and public failings, ole 'slick willy' will be remembered as one of the greats... Cheers Shaun Canning Cultural Heritage Services High Street, Broadford, Vic, 3658 Mob: 0414-967 644 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.heritageservices.com.au -Original Message- From: Jim Apilado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 18 July 2003 12:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT - Brit and proud Could it be that the UK has a better education system that produces leaders that are unmatched on the planet? Jim A. From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:45:43 +0100 To: Pentax List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT - Brit and proud Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:45:51 -0400 Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
Re: OT - Brit and proud
Hi, Tony said: September the 11th was not an isolated event, but a tragic prologue, Iraq another act, and many further struggles will be set upon this stage before it's over. What are they planing? How many people have to die before the victims of September the 11th will be avenged? Indeed tragic! Cheers, Hans. --- Robert Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tony Blair is in Washington and gave a speech to a joint session of Congress this afternoon. People who heard it say it was brilliantly delivered. I did not hear it but read the text and find it admirable. Worth a read -- at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6801-2003Jul17.html?nav=hptop_ts Bob Harris frank theriault wrote: Dear me. Did a politician say something remotely interesting? And I missed it! What happened? Did someone find a WMD in Iraq? waiting patiently, frank Robert Harris wrote: I don't know about president. He already has a pretty good job. But he sure gave a good speech. You should be proud. Cotty wrote: Tony Blair for President :-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk Bob Harris -- I don't believe in God, but I do believe in pi - Henri Cartier-Bresson _ 23a mail _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED], No Ads, 6MB, IMAP, POP, SMTP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag
