Re: Adults on bicycles
Now this is just too much information. Bob W wrote: > My crack may open wider for you, Cotty... > > I have 5 days more holiday this year than last (but still no time to > take it all!) and I need to plan how to use it. > > -- > Cheers, > Bob > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Cotty >> Sent: 01 November 2006 08:05 >> To: pentax list >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >> On 1/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >> >> >>> Hmm. Maybe. >>> >> That's a small crack of willingness I can just get my crowbar of >> persuasion into >> >> -- >> >> >> Cheers, >> Cotty >> >> >> ___/\__ >> || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche >> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com >> _ >> >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >> >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 4/11/06, John Francis, discombobulated, unleashed: >There's not a lot of point shouting at them *after* you hit them, >is there? (Although "get a life" does seem strangely appropriate). Oh, c'mon, I wouldn't kill a cyclist outright, that would be very bad. I like to see some suffering first. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Sat, Nov 04, 2006 at 03:42:11PM +, Cotty wrote: > On 4/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >absolutely. So next time you see a cyclist (are there any in Oxford?) > >it's your duty to shout "Get a life, loser!". > > This before I hit them with the vehicle or after ? ;-) There's not a lot of point shouting at them *after* you hit them, is there? (Although "get a life" does seem strangely appropriate). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 4/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >absolutely. So next time you see a cyclist (are there any in Oxford?) >it's your duty to shout "Get a life, loser!". This before I hit them with the vehicle or after ? ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Looks like I'm better off cycling without my helmet than I am sitting here on my fat ass reading PDML mail.Conversely, here in the States fishing is often a very relaxing endeavour. Depending on the fisherman he may decided to sit on a bank, take a boat ride, or wade out into a stream with a fly rod. What the heck are you guys over there doing to make it so dangerous? Drive by casting? On 11/4/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of frank theriault > > [...] > > > > However, they offer a greatly increased chance of survival and/or > > minimization of brain injury in a surprisingly large number of > > collisions. I can think of at least three occasions when my head > hit > > the pavement with enough impact that, were I not wearing a helmet, > I'd > > have almost certainly suffered at least a severe concussion. That > > includes my (helmeted) forehead smacking the pavement after flying > > over the front of my handlebars, another occasion where I landed on > my > > back and the back of my head whipped into a streetcar rail, and my > > most recent collision (last October, when I broke my collarbone) > where > > my temple hit the ground (cracking the helmet), then my face slid > > along the pavement, giving me the coolest roadrash on my cheek. The > > kids were most impressed! > > > > My point is that for each of these incidents, me helmet did the job > > that it was designed to do, and that without each of those helmets, > my > > injuries would have likely been severe. > > > > So, whatever helmets can or can't do, my personal experience is > that, > > while there are obviously no guarantees, they are extremely > effective > > in preventing head injuries. > > [...] > > I know it probably seems as though I'm banging on about this, but > there is an almost unquestioned assumption, and storms of propaganda, > claiming that cycle helmets are effective. However, the evidence does > not support this, or is at best equivocal, and governments get away > with compulsion and erosion of your rights as adults to a free choice. > People need to know the arguments & facts on both sides. > > http://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1019 > > The first references in that article are quite interesting. > > Strangely enough, cycling is safer than living! Here is a page full of > statistical tables about relative risk. It says "The promotion of > cycle helmets portrays cycling as an especially risky activity, but > examination of comparative risk data reveals otherwise. It transpires > that cycling is in fact one of the safest ways to spend one's time. As > well as being safer than the obvious high-risk sports such as > climbing, it is also much safer than more 'ordinary' sports such as > football, swimming or fishing and, indeed, safer than general 'living' > (the net outcome of all causes of death). " > > http://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1026 > > Anyway, there it is. You're all bright enough to make your own > decisions (where your government generously allows you the choice), so > I'll shut up now. > > Here's a picture of somebody engaged in a dangerous activity: > http://www.cannsdownpress.co.uk/d28.htm > > and an early attempt (failed) to invent the bicycle: > http://www.cannsdownpress.co.uk/d61.htm > > -- > Cheers, > Bob > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com Shoot more film! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Cotty > Sent: 04 November 2006 10:19 > To: pentax list > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On 4/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >Strangely enough, cycling is safer than living! > > Which begs the belief that cycling is not actually living. > > -- > absolutely. So next time you see a cyclist (are there any in Oxford?) it's your duty to shout "Get a life, loser!". Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 4/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >Strangely enough, cycling is safer than living! Which begs the belief that cycling is not actually living. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of frank theriault [...] > > However, they offer a greatly increased chance of survival and/or > minimization of brain injury in a surprisingly large number of > collisions. I can think of at least three occasions when my head hit > the pavement with enough impact that, were I not wearing a helmet, I'd > have almost certainly suffered at least a severe concussion. That > includes my (helmeted) forehead smacking the pavement after flying > over the front of my handlebars, another occasion where I landed on my > back and the back of my head whipped into a streetcar rail, and my > most recent collision (last October, when I broke my collarbone) where > my temple hit the ground (cracking the helmet), then my face slid > along the pavement, giving me the coolest roadrash on my cheek. The > kids were most impressed! > > My point is that for each of these incidents, me helmet did the job > that it was designed to do, and that without each of those helmets, my > injuries would have likely been severe. > > So, whatever helmets can or can't do, my personal experience is that, > while there are obviously no guarantees, they are extremely effective > in preventing head injuries. [...] I know it probably seems as though I'm banging on about this, but there is an almost unquestioned assumption, and storms of propaganda, claiming that cycle helmets are effective. However, the evidence does not support this, or is at best equivocal, and governments get away with compulsion and erosion of your rights as adults to a free choice. People need to know the arguments & facts on both sides. http://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1019 The first references in that article are quite interesting. Strangely enough, cycling is safer than living! Here is a page full of statistical tables about relative risk. It says "The promotion of cycle helmets portrays cycling as an especially risky activity, but examination of comparative risk data reveals otherwise. It transpires that cycling is in fact one of the safest ways to spend one's time. As well as being safer than the obvious high-risk sports such as climbing, it is also much safer than more 'ordinary' sports such as football, swimming or fishing and, indeed, safer than general 'living' (the net outcome of all causes of death). " http://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html?1026 Anyway, there it is. You're all bright enough to make your own decisions (where your government generously allows you the choice), so I'll shut up now. Here's a picture of somebody engaged in a dangerous activity: http://www.cannsdownpress.co.uk/d28.htm and an early attempt (failed) to invent the bicycle: http://www.cannsdownpress.co.uk/d61.htm -- Cheers, Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/3/06, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Helmets are a compromise solution to head protection. > They can offer exceedingly good protection, but at the expense of > weight. > A heavier helmet is more likely to cause soft tissue injuries (whiplash) > to the neck. > ~Everything~ in life is a compromise. Bike helmets (even "budget" ones) typically weigh around 8 to 12 ounces; they are quite comfortable and well-ventilated compared to helmets of even a few years ago. They aren't perfect, and can't be expected to provide failsafe protection for thirty mph faceplants into brick walls. However, they offer a greatly increased chance of survival and/or minimization of brain injury in a surprisingly large number of collisions. I can think of at least three occasions when my head hit the pavement with enough impact that, were I not wearing a helmet, I'd have almost certainly suffered at least a severe concussion. That includes my (helmeted) forehead smacking the pavement after flying over the front of my handlebars, another occasion where I landed on my back and the back of my head whipped into a streetcar rail, and my most recent collision (last October, when I broke my collarbone) where my temple hit the ground (cracking the helmet), then my face slid along the pavement, giving me the coolest roadrash on my cheek. The kids were most impressed! My point is that for each of these incidents, me helmet did the job that it was designed to do, and that without each of those helmets, my injuries would have likely been severe. So, whatever helmets can or can't do, my personal experience is that, while there are obviously no guarantees, they are extremely effective in preventing head injuries. >From all the above-mentioned accidents, the only injuries I suffered above the shoulders were road rash on my face, and a sore neck for a day or two. I shudder to think what would have happened without a helmet. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
- Original Message - From: "David Mann" Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > Nothing can guarantee protection against a really serious head > injury. The impact is just too large, and even the best helmets can > only absorb so much of it. Helmets are a compromise solution to head protection. They can offer exceedingly good protection, but at the expense of weight. A heavier helmet is more likely to cause soft tissue injuries (whiplash) to the neck. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
> > From: David Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/03 Fri AM 05:04:06 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On Nov 2, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Bob W wrote: > > > You make your own choices (or do you? isn't it compulsory in NZ?) > > It is compulsory in NZ, and I just happen to agree that wearing a > helmet is a good idea for my situation. I may have become > indoctrinated by the requirement though :) > > The way things are going, I'm almost surprised that I'm not required > to wear a metre-thick layer of bubblewrap at all times. > But you do, if you intend going downhill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorb - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Nov 2, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Bob W wrote: > You make your own choices (or do you? isn't it compulsory in NZ?) It is compulsory in NZ, and I just happen to agree that wearing a helmet is a good idea for my situation. I may have become indoctrinated by the requirement though :) The way things are going, I'm almost surprised that I'm not required to wear a metre-thick layer of bubblewrap at all times. > , and you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but your opinion > isn't > obviously supported by facts. A lot of people think it's intuitively > obvious that a helmet offers more protection than no helmet, but they > don't appear to offer any protection against the most serious types of > head injuries, and there is plenty of evidence that they increase the > likelihood of those injuries. Nothing can guarantee protection against a really serious head injury. The impact is just too large, and even the best helmets can only absorb so much of it. Personally I doubt they can absorb much; the biggest benefit will come from the fact that the impact force is spread across the whole head rather than being concentrated on the tiny part of the skull that makes contact with the ground. So it'll protect against painful grazes and bruising, it might turn a potential cracked skull (ouch!) into a concussion, but anything really big is still rolling the dice. I lean slightly towards the paranoid side and I believe that a helmet _can_ help in many situations, and I've heard enough tales from people who are only alive today because of one, so I consider it to be worth the insignificant expense/inconvenience. I don't exactly relish the prospect of even a minor head injury! I'm not going to offer any arguments for or against the legal mandating of helmets, mainly as I haven't studied the statistics or the limitations of the processes used to obtain and interpret them. I'm not sure that statistics will tell the full story, as they'll only be based on what was reported (I could go out on some tangents here). Merely counting the incidence of serious injuries in a large population isn't going to tell me enough to form a full opinion. OTOH, neither is talking to a bunch of fellow bikers :) Another facet which I don't think has been mentioned yet is insurance. In NZ we'll never be refused treatment or the subsequent rehabilitation but there may be a condition in my life insurance that would deny payment if I was found to be breaking the law, or not using what the insurers might define as "reasonable safety precautions", by not wearing a helmet. By that stage I wouldn't be around to care, but it would make things a bit more difficult for my partner. - Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Bob W wrote: > Ann, > > there's a whole series of bike photos there (none of them mine though) > - follow the Next link. Slate is not a well-designed user interface, > but the photos are good. > > Here are some of my bike photos (family snaps, not Magnum standard), > starting in the middle with a literary joke that might appeal to you: > http://www.web-options.com/Hadrian/pages/Hadrian%27s%20Wall68.htm > (have I already posted this?) > > -- > Cheers, > Bob You sent me the link but that was after I'd been away. > > > >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>Behalf Of ann sanfedele >>Sent: 02 November 2006 15:20 >>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >>One of my favorite photos ever... >>I'm way behind on reading stuff on list - >>I was expecting a photo of yours though :) >> >>ann >> >>Bob W wrote: >> >> >>>"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, >> >>"I no longer >> >>>despair for the human race" >>> >>>Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: >>>http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ >>> >>>-- >>>Regards, >>> Bob >>> >>>-- >>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>>PDML@pdml.net >>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >> >>-- >>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >>PDML@pdml.net >>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >> > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
We drop off the kids to go swimming. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Based on a 30" stride, that's 528 steps. > > Shel > > > > >>[Original Message] >>From: Gonz > > >>In my household, besides driving to work >>(15miles and 6miles), there are mostly short trips: >>gym 1/4 mile > > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/2/06, David Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: > > > The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly > > in traffic. > > That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind > spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in > some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright > inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. > > I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close > calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a > guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token > glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. > Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder > whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. > > In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality > is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied > to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the > rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing > will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries > anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one > thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. > > As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but > my experience is that this can only reduce the danger - not eliminate > it. Riding offroad is an entirely different kettle of fish as the > terrain is much more "interesting", and because I ride that stuff for > fun, fitness and challenge, crashing is much more likely and in many > places there are pointy rocks to land on. > > The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make > predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have the helmet > than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If > someone wants to take their chances without a helmet that's fine by > me, but I'll still mutter a few opinionated words to myself :) > > - Dave Hear, hear!! That's a lucid, well-organized, well-presented argument, Dave. (of course, I only say that because I agree 100%) cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Based on a 30" stride, that's 528 steps. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Gonz > In my household, besides driving to work > (15miles and 6miles), there are mostly short trips: > gym 1/4 mile -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Can I recommend to you a short story, "... All You Zombies", by Robert Heinlein? This involves levels of consanguinity far more complicated than simply being your own niece. It can be found, together with the excellent "And He Built a Crooked House", in a collection entitled "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag". On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 08:18:38AM +, mike wilson wrote: > I thought being your own grandpaw was quite common in some parts of the US? > 8-) Being your own niece is probably much more difficult for someone of the > masculine persuasion. > > > > From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 2006/11/01 Wed PM 09:26:40 GMT > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > > That makes as much sense as anything else in this thread... > > > > Bob W wrote: > > > thanks to the magic of HG's time machine, Orson was simultaneously his > > > grandfather and his niece. > > > > > > -- > > > Cheers, > > > Bob > > > > > > > > >> -Original Message----- > > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > >> Behalf Of graywolf > > >> Sent: 01 November 2006 12:23 > > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > >> > > >> Oh, well, I was having one of those senior moments and was > > >> thinking of > > >> Orson Wells who became famous with a radio broadcast based > > >> upon one of > > >> HG's stories. I wonder if they were related? Yes, I know I could > > > look > > >> that up... > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > - > Email sent from www.ntlworld.com > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software > Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> In my household, besides > driving to work > (15miles and 6miles), there are mostly short trips: [...] gym 1/4 mile, Mark! -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Gonz > Sent: 02 November 2006 16:30 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 09:12:22PM -, Bob W wrote: > > > >>Your wise neurosurgeon might care to reflect on this: > >>(http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/effectiveness.pdf) > >> > >>"... the average distance cycled per person in the UK each year is > >>only 62 km42 (and in the Netherlands only 850 km43), so the average > >>cyclist would expect a serious injury only once in more > than 80 lifetimes. > > > > > > That would only be true if the likelihood of accident was directly > > proportional to distance travelled, which is a questionable > assumption. > > > > Compare this, for example, to the equally often-quoted figure that > > 50% of all automobile accidents occur within 1.5 miles of the home. > > If this is true, and if the probability of an accident is directly > > proportional to the length of the journey, then we are forced to the > > conclusion that the average journey in an automobile is three miles. > > This is plainly ridiculous, so one of the underlying assumptions > > must be wrong. > > > > > Hmm, it might just be right. In my household, besides > driving to work > (15miles and 6miles), there are mostly short trips: grocery > shopping 1 > mile, post office 1/2 mile, gym 1/4 mile, gas fillup varies > but about 1 > mile avg, other shopping 3 miles, movies etc 5 miles, eating > out usually > within 5 miles, dropping the kids off to school 1 mile. I guess it > depends on how close everything is to you. The more rural > you are, the > further you have to go for everything. For people in a dense urban > environment (and more likely to have accidents) the average driving > distance must be really short. > > rg > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 09:12:22PM -, Bob W wrote: > >>Your wise neurosurgeon might care to reflect on this: >>(http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/effectiveness.pdf) >> >>"... the average distance cycled per person in the UK each year is >>only 62 km42 (and in the Netherlands only 850 km43), so the average >>cyclist would expect a serious injury only once in more than 80 lifetimes. > > > That would only be true if the likelihood of accident was directly > proportional to distance travelled, which is a questionable assumption. > > Compare this, for example, to the equally often-quoted figure that > 50% of all automobile accidents occur within 1.5 miles of the home. > If this is true, and if the probability of an accident is directly > proportional to the length of the journey, then we are forced to the > conclusion that the average journey in an automobile is three miles. > This is plainly ridiculous, so one of the underlying assumptions > must be wrong. > > Hmm, it might just be right. In my household, besides driving to work (15miles and 6miles), there are mostly short trips: grocery shopping 1 mile, post office 1/2 mile, gym 1/4 mile, gas fillup varies but about 1 mile avg, other shopping 3 miles, movies etc 5 miles, eating out usually within 5 miles, dropping the kids off to school 1 mile. I guess it depends on how close everything is to you. The more rural you are, the further you have to go for everything. For people in a dense urban environment (and more likely to have accidents) the average driving distance must be really short. rg -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> > From: "Malcolm Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/02 Thu PM 02:30:47 GMT > To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" > Subject: RE: Adults on bicycles > > Doug Franklin wrote: > > > I suspect that it mostly boils down to "familiarity breeds contempt". > > Those short, regularly traveled routes are the ones where the > > driver is most likely to be running on "autopilot" because > > they know the route, and probably also the most likely, > > therefore, to be where they're doing everything except paying > > attention to the traffic ... shaving, putting on makeup, > > reading the newspaper, etc. Those are also the routes I'd > > guess people would be most likely to be running late on. :-) > > Every morning I nip down the road to buy a newspaper and have to cross a > slow moving, very busy road. Getting eye contact with a driver to > acknowledge your existence in front of her/him is fairly tricky as the route > is so familiar too them, they do other things to pass the time; in the last > week I've seen the obvious 'phone use, chatting, eating breakfast, finishing > getting dressed for work, tie, collar buttons...Even if they do see you, do > they 'see' you, do you register in their mind? > > The speed cameras on sections in the morning that could be activated are > slowed down for and side roads are raced up instead to 'make up the time'. > As a pedestrian crossing the road for a short distance it's alarming enough, > but to share the road space as a cyclist with many of these people has made > me considerably more nervous. I haven't worn a cycle helmet before, but I'll > be looking at them this weekend :-( > > Malcolm Being on the large side, I find that some ferocious wobbling makes most car divers keep well away. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
Ann, there's a whole series of bike photos there (none of them mine though) - follow the Next link. Slate is not a well-designed user interface, but the photos are good. Here are some of my bike photos (family snaps, not Magnum standard), starting in the middle with a literary joke that might appeal to you: http://www.web-options.com/Hadrian/pages/Hadrian%27s%20Wall68.htm (have I already posted this?) -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of ann sanfedele > Sent: 02 November 2006 15:20 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > One of my favorite photos ever... > I'm way behind on reading stuff on list - > I was expecting a photo of yours though :) > > ann > > Bob W wrote: > > > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, > "I no longer > > despair for the human race" > > > > Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: > > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bob > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
I suggest that folks read Effective Cycling by John Forester with a open mind, then think critically about what he says because his information is based upon the facts, not the feelings involved. Riding according to his teachings I have never even had a near accident even when commuting in big city rush hour traffic. The establishment disagrees with about everything he says therein, but they have no facts to support their disagreement, just feelings, very strong feelings... and a lot of ignorance. Bob W wrote: >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of David Mann >> >> On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: >> >>> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly > >>> in traffic. > [...] >> The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make >> predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have >> the helmet >> than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If >> someone wants to take their chances without a helmet that's fine by > >> me, but I'll still mutter a few opinionated words to myself :) >> > > You make your own choices (or do you? isn't it compulsory in NZ?), and > you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but your opinion isn't > obviously supported by facts. A lot of people think it's intuitively > obvious that a helmet offers more protection than no helmet, but they > don't appear to offer any protection against the most serious types of > head injuries, and there is plenty of evidence that they increase the > likelihood of those injuries. > > The case for helmets is massively overstated, and certainly does not > offer any justification whatsoever for making it a legal requirement > to wear one. > > Until earlier this year I was of the general opinion that helmets were > probably safer than no helmets, but I didn't wear one because I simply > don't like them. Some people I spoke to about it were horrified to > learn that I don't use one, and I couldn't understand the strength of > their reaction - cycling has never seemed like an unsafe activity to > me. So I started looking into the facts and the arguments for and > against, and I am simply not convinced that cycle helmets have any > worthwhile value. I suspect that most people just accept the > propaganda at face value without looking into it. > > Regards, > Bob > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Oh, that is different. I once hit a pothole. It pretzeled the front wheel, and bent the frame. I can understand that. Of course I was doing 35 mph across a park in the middle of the night, so I still say it was stupidity rather than an accident. John Coyle wrote: > Don, I'll have to take you to task for suggesting that I did not maintain my > bicycle! The problem was a large uneven pothole, which, because it was > dusk, I simply did not see. I was meticulous in maintenance - almost > paranoid, in fact (reflecting Frank's contributions) > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia > - Original Message - > From: "Don Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:42 PM > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > Hi John, > > There must have been something seriously wrong with the bicycle for a > front wheel to collapse. A little maintenance might have helped -- as > well as care and attention when riding? A serious fall would do me no > good whatsoever at 74. I tweak the spokes and check my brakes regularly. > The route I take over the hill to the village is rocky and steep and so > these days I stay away from rough terrain when it gets below zero. Once > my front wheel went sideways on an icy rock and I ended up in a heap. > The damage was not serious and I was riding again in a week. But > bicycles, especially those like mine, a Scott mountain bike, need a lot > of care and attention because they get pretty rough treatment. Ten years > ago I used to change the tyres in the autumn to a pair with spikes; but > as the years went by I began to realise that I was not as young as I > seemed to imagine. If I were to wear a helmet in the autumn (I have one > for summer) my skull would freeze before I got half a kilometre. > > I'm just about to set off for the village by the way, there's about 50 > cm of snow on the hill. I'll go round and push the 1km to the road. > > Don > > John Coyle wrote: >> Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a front wheel >> collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in hospital as a >> result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether or not I was >> required to do so. >> Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no other vehicle was >> involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, correctly >> positioned >> on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that >> accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments put forward >> in >> this thread. >> It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't prevent >> every >> fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a statistically >> significant number of cases. >> >> John Coyle >> Brisbane, Australia >> - Original Message - >> From: "David Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" >> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >> >> >>> On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: >>> >>> >>>> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly >>>> in traffic. >>>> >>> That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind >>> spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in >>> some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright >>> inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. >>> >>> I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close >>> calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a >>> guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token >>> glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. >>> Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder >>> whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. >>> >>> In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality >>> is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied >>> to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the >>> rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing >>> will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries >>> anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one >>> thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. >>> >>> As you mentioned,
Re: Adults on bicycles
Proper maintenance of the bicycle? Bicycle wheels are immensely strong they support my fat body no problem. They do not just collapse out of the blue for no reason. You folks remind me of those college kids I see jaywalking, "If I don't look he will not hit me". You have to operate with the idea, "He sees me, and he is going to try and run me down, so I had better be ready". John Coyle wrote: > Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a front wheel > collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in hospital as a > result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether or not I was > required to do so. > Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no other vehicle was > involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, correctly positioned > on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that > accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments put forward in > this thread. > It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't prevent every > fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a statistically > significant number of cases. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
One of my favorite photos ever... I'm way behind on reading stuff on list - I was expecting a photo of yours though :) ann Bob W wrote: > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer > despair for the human race" > > Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > -- > Regards, > Bob > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
In that case you'd better unsubscribe. Doug B won't want agreement breaking out all over his list. > > I find it difficult to disagree with you. 8-))) > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
Doug Franklin wrote: > I suspect that it mostly boils down to "familiarity breeds contempt". > Those short, regularly traveled routes are the ones where the > driver is most likely to be running on "autopilot" because > they know the route, and probably also the most likely, > therefore, to be where they're doing everything except paying > attention to the traffic ... shaving, putting on makeup, > reading the newspaper, etc. Those are also the routes I'd > guess people would be most likely to be running late on. :-) Every morning I nip down the road to buy a newspaper and have to cross a slow moving, very busy road. Getting eye contact with a driver to acknowledge your existence in front of her/him is fairly tricky as the route is so familiar too them, they do other things to pass the time; in the last week I've seen the obvious 'phone use, chatting, eating breakfast, finishing getting dressed for work, tie, collar buttons...Even if they do see you, do they 'see' you, do you register in their mind? The speed cameras on sections in the morning that could be activated are slowed down for and side roads are raced up instead to 'make up the time'. As a pedestrian crossing the road for a short distance it's alarming enough, but to share the road space as a cyclist with many of these people has made me considerably more nervous. I haven't worn a cycle helmet before, but I'll be looking at them this weekend :-( Malcolm -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Sometimes shit happens. My only over-the-handlebars journey was due to a failure of the front QR squewer at approximately the same time I hit a 2" lip of asphalt around a drain grate. Either occurance would have been no big deal (Especialy the lip, since I was riding a mountain bike, and going only moderately fast), but the combo resulted in my going over the bars (And then most of the bike going over me). This likely wouldn't have happened on a newer bike, but the one I was riding at the time was too old to have lawyer tabs to retain the wheel in the event of a QR being open or failing. -Adam Don Williams wrote: > Hi John, > > There must have been something seriously wrong with the bicycle for a > front wheel to collapse. A little maintenance might have helped -- as > well as care and attention when riding? A serious fall would do me no > good whatsoever at 74. I tweak the spokes and check my brakes regularly. > The route I take over the hill to the village is rocky and steep and so > these days I stay away from rough terrain when it gets below zero. Once > my front wheel went sideways on an icy rock and I ended up in a heap. > The damage was not serious and I was riding again in a week. But > bicycles, especially those like mine, a Scott mountain bike, need a lot > of care and attention because they get pretty rough treatment. Ten years > ago I used to change the tyres in the autumn to a pair with spikes; but > as the years went by I began to realise that I was not as young as I > seemed to imagine. If I were to wear a helmet in the autumn (I have one > for summer) my skull would freeze before I got half a kilometre. > > I'm just about to set off for the village by the way, there's about 50 > cm of snow on the hill. I'll go round and push the 1km to the road. > > Don > > John Coyle wrote: >> Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a front wheel >> collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in hospital as a >> result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether or not I was >> required to do so. >> Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no other vehicle was >> involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, correctly positioned >> on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that >> accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments put forward in >> this thread. >> It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't prevent every >> fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a statistically >> significant number of cases. >> >> John Coyle >> Brisbane, Australia >> - Original Message - >> From: "David Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" >> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >> >> >>> On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: >>> >>> >>>> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly >>>> in traffic. >>>> >>> That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind >>> spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in >>> some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright >>> inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. >>> >>> I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close >>> calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a >>> guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token >>> glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. >>> Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder >>> whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. >>> >>> In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality >>> is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied >>> to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the >>> rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing >>> will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries >>> anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one >>> thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. >>> >>> As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but >>> my experience is that this can only reduce the danger - not eliminate >>> it. Riding offroad is an entirely different kettle of fish a
Re: Adults on bicycles
I find it difficult to disagree with you. 8-))) > > From: Doug Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/02 Thu PM 01:13:53 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > mike wilson wrote: > > > Short, regularly travelled routes seem to have a disproportionate > > number of accidents. I don't think anyone has done any work (at > > least, I can't find it online) to work out if that is merely due to > > a statistical function or if there is a human effect at work. > > I suspect that it mostly boils down to "familiarity breeds contempt". > Those short, regularly traveled routes are the ones where the driver is > most likely to be running on "autopilot" because they know the route, > and probably also the most likely, therefore, to be where they're doing > everything except paying attention to the traffic ... shaving, putting > on makeup, reading the newspaper, etc. Those are also the routes I'd > guess people would be most likely to be running late on. :-) > > -- > Thanks, > DougF (KG4LMZ) > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
mike wilson wrote: > Short, regularly travelled routes seem to have a disproportionate > number of accidents. I don't think anyone has done any work (at > least, I can't find it online) to work out if that is merely due to > a statistical function or if there is a human effect at work. I suspect that it mostly boils down to "familiarity breeds contempt". Those short, regularly traveled routes are the ones where the driver is most likely to be running on "autopilot" because they know the route, and probably also the most likely, therefore, to be where they're doing everything except paying attention to the traffic ... shaving, putting on makeup, reading the newspaper, etc. Those are also the routes I'd guess people would be most likely to be running late on. :-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Okay I apologise. But a collapsed wheel from a pothole? That must have been a hell of a pothole. Don John Coyle wrote: > Don, I'll have to take you to task for suggesting that I did not maintain my > bicycle! The problem was a large uneven pothole, which, because it was > dusk, I simply did not see. I was meticulous in maintenance - almost > paranoid, in fact (reflecting Frank's contributions) > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia > - Original Message - > From: "Don Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:42 PM > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > Hi John, > > There must have been something seriously wrong with the bicycle for a > front wheel to collapse. A little maintenance might have helped -- as > well as care and attention when riding? A serious fall would do me no > good whatsoever at 74. I tweak the spokes and check my brakes regularly. > The route I take over the hill to the village is rocky and steep and so > these days I stay away from rough terrain when it gets below zero. Once > my front wheel went sideways on an icy rock and I ended up in a heap. > The damage was not serious and I was riding again in a week. But > bicycles, especially those like mine, a Scott mountain bike, need a lot > of care and attention because they get pretty rough treatment. Ten years > ago I used to change the tyres in the autumn to a pair with spikes; but > as the years went by I began to realise that I was not as young as I > seemed to imagine. If I were to wear a helmet in the autumn (I have one > for summer) my skull would freeze before I got half a kilometre. > > I'm just about to set off for the village by the way, there's about 50 > cm of snow on the hill. I'll go round and push the 1km to the road. > > Don > > John Coyle wrote: > >> Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a front wheel >> collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in hospital as a >> result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether or not I was >> required to do so. >> Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no other vehicle was >> involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, correctly >> positioned >> on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that >> accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments put forward >> in >> this thread. >> It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't prevent >> every >> fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a statistically >> significant number of cases. >> >> John Coyle >> Brisbane, Australia >> - Original Message - >> From: "David Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" >> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:00 PM >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >> >> >> >>> On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly >>>> in traffic. >>>> >>>> >>> That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind >>> spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in >>> some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright >>> inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. >>> >>> I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close >>> calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a >>> guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token >>> glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. >>> Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder >>> whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. >>> >>> In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality >>> is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied >>> to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the >>> rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing >>> will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries >>> anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one >>> thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. >>> >>> As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but >>> my experie
Re: Adults on bicycles
Don, I'll have to take you to task for suggesting that I did not maintain my bicycle! The problem was a large uneven pothole, which, because it was dusk, I simply did not see. I was meticulous in maintenance - almost paranoid, in fact (reflecting Frank's contributions) John Coyle Brisbane, Australia - Original Message - From: "Don Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles Hi John, There must have been something seriously wrong with the bicycle for a front wheel to collapse. A little maintenance might have helped -- as well as care and attention when riding? A serious fall would do me no good whatsoever at 74. I tweak the spokes and check my brakes regularly. The route I take over the hill to the village is rocky and steep and so these days I stay away from rough terrain when it gets below zero. Once my front wheel went sideways on an icy rock and I ended up in a heap. The damage was not serious and I was riding again in a week. But bicycles, especially those like mine, a Scott mountain bike, need a lot of care and attention because they get pretty rough treatment. Ten years ago I used to change the tyres in the autumn to a pair with spikes; but as the years went by I began to realise that I was not as young as I seemed to imagine. If I were to wear a helmet in the autumn (I have one for summer) my skull would freeze before I got half a kilometre. I'm just about to set off for the village by the way, there's about 50 cm of snow on the hill. I'll go round and push the 1km to the road. Don John Coyle wrote: > Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a front wheel > collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in hospital as a > result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether or not I was > required to do so. > Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no other vehicle was > involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, correctly > positioned > on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that > accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments put forward > in > this thread. > It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't prevent > every > fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a statistically > significant number of cases. > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia > - Original Message - > From: "David Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > >> On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: >> >> >>> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly >>> in traffic. >>> >> That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind >> spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in >> some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright >> inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. >> >> I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close >> calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a >> guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token >> glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. >> Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder >> whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. >> >> In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality >> is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied >> to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the >> rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing >> will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries >> anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one >> thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. >> >> As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but >> my experience is that this can only reduce the danger - not eliminate >> it. Riding offroad is an entirely different kettle of fish as the >> terrain is much more "interesting", and because I ride that stuff for >> fun, fitness and challenge, crashing is much more likely and in many >> places there are pointy rocks to land on. >> >> The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make >> predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have the helmet >> than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If
Re: Adults on bicycles
> > From: John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/01 Wed PM 10:26:38 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 09:12:22PM -, Bob W wrote: > > Your wise neurosurgeon might care to reflect on this: > > (http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/effectiveness.pdf) > > > > "... the average distance cycled per person in the UK each year is > > only 62 km42 (and in the Netherlands only 850 km43), so the average > > cyclist would expect a serious injury only once in more than 80 lifetimes. > > That would only be true if the likelihood of accident was directly > proportional to distance travelled, which is a questionable assumption. > > Compare this, for example, to the equally often-quoted figure that > 50% of all automobile accidents occur within 1.5 miles of the home. > If this is true, and if the probability of an accident is directly > proportional to the length of the journey, then we are forced to the > conclusion that the average journey in an automobile is three miles. > This is plainly ridiculous, so one of the underlying assumptions > must be wrong. I can find no online reference to journey distances on other than European and, oddly, South African sites. Discounting the ones that are measuring commuting journeys only, the only site that gives a number is this: http://www-wds.worldbank.org/servlet/WDSContentServer/WDSP/IB/1997/01/01/09265_3970716145200/Rendered/INDEX/multi_page.txt which says that 70% of Nederland journeys are under 7.5Km. About 5 miles. Away from southern UK, the majority of people commute only about 5 miles or so. Combined with a large number of vehicles doing very short journeys (delivery vans, waste collectors, post vehicles, door to door salespersons, travelling thieves, local authority workers, retired people) it is no suprise to me that average journey distances are in single figures. Short, regularly travelled routes seem to have a disproportionate number of accidents. I don't think anyone has done any work (at least, I can't find it online) to work out if that is merely due to a statistical function or if there is a human effect at work. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 2/11/06, John Forbes, discombobulated, unleashed: >Of course, it's different in America. Your suburbs are much larger. Amazing what botox can do ;-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> > From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/01 Wed PM 09:23:41 GMT > To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" > Subject: RE: Adults on bicycles > > That might work, Bob, if it were applied consistently in all other > areas of activity, and if the wearing of cycle helmets could be shown > conclusively to be effective. > > Neither of these conditions apply. > > For consistency all insurance and health care would have to be > withdrawn from anybody who was negligent of their health in some way, > for example by smoking, drinking, eating the wrong kind of food, not > taking enough exercise, running with knives, etc. etc. > > And the final judgement is certainly not in yet on the effectiveness > of cycle helmets, so one could not in any case argue that a cyclist > without a helmet was neglecting his health in a way that could justify > (if anything can) withholding or withdrawing medical treatment or > insurance. > > Furthermore, it doesn't take into account who was at fault in an > accident - something that could rarely be determined at the time of > the accident. It is also wide open to mistakes. If someone's helmet > were knocked off in an accident and not immediately visible to the > paramedics, should they withhold treatment on the grounds that the > rider was not wearing their helmet? > > -- > Cheers, > Bob The other problem is the, in reality, very limited protection that helmets provide. If you hit your head against anything unyielding at more than about 20mph, you will die. Helmets mitigate the effect but, apparently, only slightly. You can't get quality volunteers these days. When it comes down to it, luck seems to be the arbiter of how seriously you are injured in a collision. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Bob Sullivan > > Sent: 01 November 2006 21:03 > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > > I believe the law should read, "If you won't wear a helmet on your > > motorcycle, no public funds or insurance monies may be used to > support > > your life or recovery after an accident." > > Bicycle riding is another matter, but still deserves the helmet. > > Regards, Bob S. > > > > On 11/1/06, Mat Maessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be > > completely > > > > in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and > > hit a cyclist. > > > > Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle > > and rider, > > > > physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. > > I'll take > > > > whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > > > > inexpensive. > > > > > > There's a saying in the motorcycle community: > > > > > > "'I had the right of way' is a terrible epithet for your > > gravestone." > > > > > > I still have the scars on my arm from a bicycle accident I > > had when I > > > was 14. The helmet saved my life in that accident by striking the > > > stone wall and shattering into a million pieces. I still wear the > > > helmet that I bought to replace that one. > > > > > > -Mat > > > > > > -- > > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > PDML@pdml.net > > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
I thought being your own grandpaw was quite common in some parts of the US? 8-) Being your own niece is probably much more difficult for someone of the masculine persuasion. > > From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/01 Wed PM 09:26:40 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > That makes as much sense as anything else in this thread... > > Bob W wrote: > > thanks to the magic of HG's time machine, Orson was simultaneously his > > grandfather and his niece. > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Bob > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > >> Behalf Of graywolf > >> Sent: 01 November 2006 12:23 > >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > >> > >> Oh, well, I was having one of those senior moments and was > >> thinking of > >> Orson Wells who became famous with a radio broadcast based > >> upon one of > >> HG's stories. I wonder if they were related? Yes, I know I could > > look > >> that up... > >> > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Hi John, There must have been something seriously wrong with the bicycle for a front wheel to collapse. A little maintenance might have helped -- as well as care and attention when riding? A serious fall would do me no good whatsoever at 74. I tweak the spokes and check my brakes regularly. The route I take over the hill to the village is rocky and steep and so these days I stay away from rough terrain when it gets below zero. Once my front wheel went sideways on an icy rock and I ended up in a heap. The damage was not serious and I was riding again in a week. But bicycles, especially those like mine, a Scott mountain bike, need a lot of care and attention because they get pretty rough treatment. Ten years ago I used to change the tyres in the autumn to a pair with spikes; but as the years went by I began to realise that I was not as young as I seemed to imagine. If I were to wear a helmet in the autumn (I have one for summer) my skull would freeze before I got half a kilometre. I'm just about to set off for the village by the way, there's about 50 cm of snow on the hill. I'll go round and push the 1km to the road. Don John Coyle wrote: > Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a front wheel > collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in hospital as a > result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether or not I was > required to do so. > Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no other vehicle was > involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, correctly positioned > on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that > accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments put forward in > this thread. > It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't prevent every > fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a statistically > significant number of cases. > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia > - Original Message - > From: "David Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > >> On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: >> >> >>> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly >>> in traffic. >>> >> That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind >> spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in >> some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright >> inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. >> >> I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close >> calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a >> guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token >> glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. >> Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder >> whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. >> >> In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality >> is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied >> to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the >> rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing >> will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries >> anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one >> thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. >> >> As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but >> my experience is that this can only reduce the danger - not eliminate >> it. Riding offroad is an entirely different kettle of fish as the >> terrain is much more "interesting", and because I ride that stuff for >> fun, fitness and challenge, crashing is much more likely and in many >> places there are pointy rocks to land on. >> >> The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make >> predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have the helmet >> than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If >> someone wants to take their chances without a helmet that's fine by >> me, but I'll still mutter a few opinionated words to myself :) >> >> - Dave >> >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> > > -- Dr E D F Williams www.kolumbus.fi/mimosa/ http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams/ 41660 TOIVAKKA – Finland - +358400706616 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
Hi John, about 12 years ago I tripped unavoidably while walking along the pavement, and hit my head and face on the concrete. I was concussed, I broke both wrists and my front teeth went through my upper lip which led to me having stitches in my lip, dislodged the tooth and killed the nerves in it. Despite that I never wear a helmet while walking along the pavement. Shit happens in all sorts of unpredictable ways. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of John Coyle > Sent: 02 November 2006 06:59 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a > front wheel > collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in > hospital as a > result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether > or not I was > required to do so. > Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no > other vehicle was > involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, > correctly positioned > on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that > accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments > put forward in > this thread. > It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't > prevent every > fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a > statistically > significant number of cases. > > John Coyle > Brisbane, Australia > - Original Message - > From: "David Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > > On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: > > > >> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly > >> in traffic. > > > > That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind > > spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in > > some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright > > inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. > > > > I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close > > calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the > side by a > > guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token > > glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. > > Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder > > whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. > > > > In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality > > is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied > > to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and > spreads the > > rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough > impact nothing > > will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries > > anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one > > thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. > > > > As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but > > my experience is that this can only reduce the danger - not > eliminate > > it. Riding offroad is an entirely different kettle of fish as the > > terrain is much more "interesting", and because I ride that > stuff for > > fun, fitness and challenge, crashing is much more likely and in many > > places there are pointy rocks to land on. > > > > The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make > > predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have > the helmet > > than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If > > someone wants to take their chances without a helmet that's fine by > > me, but I'll still mutter a few opinionated words to myself :) > > > > - Dave > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of David Mann > > On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: > > > The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly > > in traffic. > [...] > > The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make > predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have > the helmet > than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If > someone wants to take their chances without a helmet that's fine by > me, but I'll still mutter a few opinionated words to myself :) > You make your own choices (or do you? isn't it compulsory in NZ?), and you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but your opinion isn't obviously supported by facts. A lot of people think it's intuitively obvious that a helmet offers more protection than no helmet, but they don't appear to offer any protection against the most serious types of head injuries, and there is plenty of evidence that they increase the likelihood of those injuries. The case for helmets is massively overstated, and certainly does not offer any justification whatsoever for making it a legal requirement to wear one. Until earlier this year I was of the general opinion that helmets were probably safer than no helmets, but I didn't wear one because I simply don't like them. Some people I spoke to about it were horrified to learn that I don't use one, and I couldn't understand the strength of their reaction - cycling has never seemed like an unsafe activity to me. So I started looking into the facts and the arguments for and against, and I am simply not convinced that cycle helmets have any worthwhile value. I suspect that most people just accept the propaganda at face value without looking into it. Regards, Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Having once, many years ago, gone over the handlebars when a front wheel collapsed, landing on my face and spending three days in hospital as a result, I would prefer to wear a helmet when riding, whether or not I was required to do so. Note that, in my case, I was on a quiet country road, no other vehicle was involved, and I was riding at a reasonably sedate pace, correctly positioned on the road. No amount of care or caution could have prevented that accident, as far as I can see, negating some of the arguments put forward in this thread. It's really like wearing a seat-belt in a car: a helmet won't prevent every fatality, but it will reduce the severity of injury in a statistically significant number of cases. John Coyle Brisbane, Australia - Original Message - From: "David Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:00 PM Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: > >> The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly >> in traffic. > > That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind > spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in > some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright > inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. > > I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close > calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a > guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token > glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. > Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder > whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. > > In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality > is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied > to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the > rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing > will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries > anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one > thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. > > As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but > my experience is that this can only reduce the danger - not eliminate > it. Riding offroad is an entirely different kettle of fish as the > terrain is much more "interesting", and because I ride that stuff for > fun, fitness and challenge, crashing is much more likely and in many > places there are pointy rocks to land on. > > The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make > predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have the helmet > than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If > someone wants to take their chances without a helmet that's fine by > me, but I'll still mutter a few opinionated words to myself :) > > - Dave > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Bob W wrote: > The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly > in traffic. That helps, but you need to bear in mind that drivers have blind spots, are often inattentive (especially while in a hurry), and in some cases, as much as I hate to say it, they can be downright inconsiderate. Just as cyclists sometimes are. I haven't been bowled by a car for quite a while despite some close calls, but the most recent time was when I was hit from the side by a guy pulling out of a driveway. He was running late and his token glance for traffic missed the only thing on that stretch of road. Sometimes shit just happens, and by then it's too late to wonder whether you're going to hit the concrete hard enough to matter. In then end, a helmet won't always save someone's life: the reality is that in a crash there is a certain amount of impact force applied to the head. The helmet can absorb a certain amount, and spreads the rest across that side of the skull. With a big enough impact nothing will save you, and you can easily be killed by other injuries anyway. IMO the helmet gives me worthwhile protection of the one thing that won't heal, without getting in my way while riding. As you mentioned, prevention by careful riding is the best cure but my experience is that this can only reduce the danger - not eliminate it. Riding offroad is an entirely different kettle of fish as the terrain is much more "interesting", and because I ride that stuff for fun, fitness and challenge, crashing is much more likely and in many places there are pointy rocks to land on. The dynamics of any crash are far too variable to be able to make predictions of the outcome, and personally I'd rather have the helmet than not have it because I'm slightly on the paranoid side. If someone wants to take their chances without a helmet that's fine by me, but I'll still mutter a few opinionated words to myself :) - Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:49:11 -, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly in > traffic. This means behaving like the driver of a vehicle, obeying the > traffic laws, changing lanes properly, positioning yourself on the > road properly, stopping at red lights, cycling the right way up one > way streets, making proper hand signals, using lights, making sure > other drivers know what you're doing, anticipating trouble and being > just paranoid enough. > > -- > Cheers, > Bob Amen to that. John >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of graywolf >> Sent: 01 November 2006 21:26 >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >> If you get hit by a car doing 30mph a bicycle helmet is not likely > to >> help you at all. Paranoia is far better protection. Thet are >> out to get >> you, don't let them. >> >> >> Mat Maessen wrote: >> > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be >> completely >> >> in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit >> a cyclist. >> >> Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle >> and rider, >> >> physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll > take >> >> whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and >> >> inexpensive. >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >> > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:26:38 -, John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 09:12:22PM -, Bob W wrote: >> Your wise neurosurgeon might care to reflect on this: >> (http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/effectiveness.pdf) >> >> "... the average distance cycled per person in the UK each year is >> only 62 km42 (and in the Netherlands only 850 km43), so the average >> cyclist would expect a serious injury only once in more than 80 >> lifetimes. > > That would only be true if the likelihood of accident was directly > proportional to distance travelled, which is a questionable assumption. > > Compare this, for example, to the equally often-quoted figure that > 50% of all automobile accidents occur within 1.5 miles of the home. > If this is true, and if the probability of an accident is directly > proportional to the length of the journey, then we are forced to the > conclusion that the average journey in an automobile is three miles. > This is plainly ridiculous, so one of the underlying assumptions > must be wrong. I believe that in the UK the average car journey isn't much more than 3 miles. All those mums who drive their kids half a mile to school, and then a quarter of a mile to the supermarket. It's why they're so fat. Of course, it's different in America. Your suburbs are much larger. John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 12:13:05AM -, John Forbes wrote: > > I believe that in the UK the average car journey isn't much more than 3 > miles. All those mums who drive their kids half a mile to school, and > then a quarter of a mile to the supermarket. It's why they're so fat. I'd question that. I could believe that the median journey was under three miles, but the average would be considerably higher - one 50-mile trip pushes the average up considerably. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 22:55:02 -, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, wearing a helmet is a way to avoid paranoia. Anything that makes you > feel safer, actually increases your real world risks. Any competent > survival instructor will tell you the safest thing to do in a real > survival situation is to be alone, unarmed, and naked. He's obviously never met a hungry polar bear. John > Adam Maas wrote: >> frank theriault wrote: >>> On 11/1/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> If you get hit by a car doing 30mph a bicycle helmet is not likely to help you at all. Paranoia is far better protection. Thet are out to get you, don't let them. >>> >>> Absolutely wrong on both counts, IMHO. >>> >>> If a car hits you doing 50kmh, the direct hit will likely be on the >>> lower body. The head will then either whip down hit the hood or >>> bodywork, or hit the pavement after flying over the car. In either >>> case, a helmet will likely be of great assistance. >>> >>> As for paranoia, why is that mutually exclusive with wearing a helmet? >>> Can't one be paranoid ~and~ wear a helmet? Surely that's the best of >>> both worlds? >>> >>> I, for one, have much paranoia to go around... >>> >>> cheers, >>> frank >> >> Wearing a helmet IS paranoia. >> >> -Adam >> Who wears a helmet. >> >> > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 1/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly in >traffic. This means behaving like the driver of a vehicle, obeying the >traffic laws, changing lanes properly, positioning yourself on the >road properly, stopping at red lights, cycling the right way up one >way streets, making proper hand signals, using lights, making sure >other drivers know what you're doing, anticipating trouble and being >just paranoid enough. Har! You really should come cycle in Oxford -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
No, wearing a helmet is a way to avoid paranoia. Anything that makes you feel safer, actually increases your real world risks. Any competent survival instructor will tell you the safest thing to do in a real survival situation is to be alone, unarmed, and naked. Adam Maas wrote: > frank theriault wrote: >> On 11/1/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> If you get hit by a car doing 30mph a bicycle helmet is not likely to >>> help you at all. Paranoia is far better protection. Thet are out to get >>> you, don't let them. >> >> Absolutely wrong on both counts, IMHO. >> >> If a car hits you doing 50kmh, the direct hit will likely be on the >> lower body. The head will then either whip down hit the hood or >> bodywork, or hit the pavement after flying over the car. In either >> case, a helmet will likely be of great assistance. >> >> As for paranoia, why is that mutually exclusive with wearing a helmet? >> Can't one be paranoid ~and~ wear a helmet? Surely that's the best of >> both worlds? >> >> I, for one, have much paranoia to go around... >> >> cheers, >> frank > > Wearing a helmet IS paranoia. > > -Adam > Who wears a helmet. > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 09:12:22PM -, Bob W wrote: > Your wise neurosurgeon might care to reflect on this: > (http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/effectiveness.pdf) > > "... the average distance cycled per person in the UK each year is > only 62 km42 (and in the Netherlands only 850 km43), so the average > cyclist would expect a serious injury only once in more than 80 lifetimes. That would only be true if the likelihood of accident was directly proportional to distance travelled, which is a questionable assumption. Compare this, for example, to the equally often-quoted figure that 50% of all automobile accidents occur within 1.5 miles of the home. If this is true, and if the probability of an accident is directly proportional to the length of the journey, then we are forced to the conclusion that the average journey in an automobile is three miles. This is plainly ridiculous, so one of the underlying assumptions must be wrong. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
frank theriault wrote: > On 11/1/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>If you get hit by a car doing 30mph a bicycle helmet is not likely to >>help you at all. Paranoia is far better protection. Thet are out to get >>you, don't let them. > > > Absolutely wrong on both counts, IMHO. > > If a car hits you doing 50kmh, the direct hit will likely be on the > lower body. The head will then either whip down hit the hood or > bodywork, or hit the pavement after flying over the car. In either > case, a helmet will likely be of great assistance. > > As for paranoia, why is that mutually exclusive with wearing a helmet? > Can't one be paranoid ~and~ wear a helmet? Surely that's the best of > both worlds? > > I, for one, have much paranoia to go around... > > cheers, > frank Wearing a helmet IS paranoia. -Adam Who wears a helmet. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Bob W, It would be a hard law, but I have no inclination to support those motorcyclists who suffered brain injuries from not wearing helmets and are in presistent vegitative states in need of public care for the remainder of their lives. We have a quarterback for last year's superbowl winning football (gridiron) team here who bought a 200 mile per hour motorcycle and crashed it into a little old lady's car as she left turned in front of him in Pittsburgh. No helmet! What a fool. He broke his jaw and face on the windshield of the car, but is back on the football field. His play is erratic and he is now suffering from concussions on the field as some recurrence of the head trama he sustained. Regards, Bob S. On 11/1/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That might work, Bob, if it were applied consistently in all other > areas of activity, and if the wearing of cycle helmets could be shown > conclusively to be effective. > > Neither of these conditions apply. > > For consistency all insurance and health care would have to be > withdrawn from anybody who was negligent of their health in some way, > for example by smoking, drinking, eating the wrong kind of food, not > taking enough exercise, running with knives, etc. etc. > > And the final judgement is certainly not in yet on the effectiveness > of cycle helmets, so one could not in any case argue that a cyclist > without a helmet was neglecting his health in a way that could justify > (if anything can) withholding or withdrawing medical treatment or > insurance. > > Furthermore, it doesn't take into account who was at fault in an > accident - something that could rarely be determined at the time of > the accident. It is also wide open to mistakes. If someone's helmet > were knocked off in an accident and not immediately visible to the > paramedics, should they withhold treatment on the grounds that the > rider was not wearing their helmet? > > -- > Cheers, > Bob > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of Bob Sullivan > > Sent: 01 November 2006 21:03 > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > > > I believe the law should read, "If you won't wear a helmet on your > > motorcycle, no public funds or insurance monies may be used to > support > > your life or recovery after an accident." > > Bicycle riding is another matter, but still deserves the helmet. > > Regards, Bob S. > > > > On 11/1/06, Mat Maessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be > > completely > > > > in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and > > hit a cyclist. > > > > Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle > > and rider, > > > > physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. > > I'll take > > > > whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > > > > inexpensive. > > > > > > There's a saying in the motorcycle community: > > > > > > "'I had the right of way' is a terrible epithet for your > > gravestone." > > > > > > I still have the scars on my arm from a bicycle accident I > > had when I > > > was 14. The helmet saved my life in that accident by striking the > > > stone wall and shattering into a million pieces. I still wear the > > > helmet that I bought to replace that one. > > > > > > -Mat > > > > > > -- > > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > PDML@pdml.net > > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/1/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly in > traffic. This means behaving like the driver of a vehicle, obeying the > traffic laws, changing lanes properly, positioning yourself on the > road properly, stopping at red lights, cycling the right way up one > way streets, making proper hand signals, using lights, making sure > other drivers know what you're doing, anticipating trouble and being > just paranoid enough. I agree. However, if you do all those things ~plus~ wear a helmet... cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
The best protection for cyclists is to learn how to cycle properly in traffic. This means behaving like the driver of a vehicle, obeying the traffic laws, changing lanes properly, positioning yourself on the road properly, stopping at red lights, cycling the right way up one way streets, making proper hand signals, using lights, making sure other drivers know what you're doing, anticipating trouble and being just paranoid enough. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of graywolf > Sent: 01 November 2006 21:26 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > If you get hit by a car doing 30mph a bicycle helmet is not likely to > help you at all. Paranoia is far better protection. Thet are > out to get > you, don't let them. > > > Mat Maessen wrote: > > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be > completely > >> in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit > a cyclist. > >> Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle > and rider, > >> physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll take > >> whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > >> inexpensive. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/1/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you get hit by a car doing 30mph a bicycle helmet is not likely to > help you at all. Paranoia is far better protection. Thet are out to get > you, don't let them. Absolutely wrong on both counts, IMHO. If a car hits you doing 50kmh, the direct hit will likely be on the lower body. The head will then either whip down hit the hood or bodywork, or hit the pavement after flying over the car. In either case, a helmet will likely be of great assistance. As for paranoia, why is that mutually exclusive with wearing a helmet? Can't one be paranoid ~and~ wear a helmet? Surely that's the best of both worlds? I, for one, have much paranoia to go around... cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
That might work, Bob, if it were applied consistently in all other areas of activity, and if the wearing of cycle helmets could be shown conclusively to be effective. Neither of these conditions apply. For consistency all insurance and health care would have to be withdrawn from anybody who was negligent of their health in some way, for example by smoking, drinking, eating the wrong kind of food, not taking enough exercise, running with knives, etc. etc. And the final judgement is certainly not in yet on the effectiveness of cycle helmets, so one could not in any case argue that a cyclist without a helmet was neglecting his health in a way that could justify (if anything can) withholding or withdrawing medical treatment or insurance. Furthermore, it doesn't take into account who was at fault in an accident - something that could rarely be determined at the time of the accident. It is also wide open to mistakes. If someone's helmet were knocked off in an accident and not immediately visible to the paramedics, should they withhold treatment on the grounds that the rider was not wearing their helmet? -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Bob Sullivan > Sent: 01 November 2006 21:03 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > I believe the law should read, "If you won't wear a helmet on your > motorcycle, no public funds or insurance monies may be used to support > your life or recovery after an accident." > Bicycle riding is another matter, but still deserves the helmet. > Regards, Bob S. > > On 11/1/06, Mat Maessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be > completely > > > in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and > hit a cyclist. > > > Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle > and rider, > > > physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. > I'll take > > > whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > > > inexpensive. > > > > There's a saying in the motorcycle community: > > > > "'I had the right of way' is a terrible epithet for your > gravestone." > > > > I still have the scars on my arm from a bicycle accident I > had when I > > was 14. The helmet saved my life in that accident by striking the > > stone wall and shattering into a million pieces. I still wear the > > helmet that I bought to replace that one. > > > > -Mat > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
If you get hit by a car doing 30mph a bicycle helmet is not likely to help you at all. Paranoia is far better protection. Thet are out to get you, don't let them. Mat Maessen wrote: > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be completely >> in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit a cyclist. >> Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle and rider, >> physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll take >> whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and >> inexpensive. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
That makes as much sense as anything else in this thread... Bob W wrote: > thanks to the magic of HG's time machine, Orson was simultaneously his > grandfather and his niece. > > -- > Cheers, > Bob > > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of graywolf >> Sent: 01 November 2006 12:23 >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >> Oh, well, I was having one of those senior moments and was >> thinking of >> Orson Wells who became famous with a radio broadcast based >> upon one of >> HG's stories. I wonder if they were related? Yes, I know I could > look >> that up... >> > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/1/06, Mat Maessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be completely > > in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit a cyclist. > > Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle and rider, > > physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll take > > whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > > inexpensive. > > There's a saying in the motorcycle community: > > "'I had the right of way' is a terrible epithet for your gravestone." > > I still have the scars on my arm from a bicycle accident I had when I > was 14. The helmet saved my life in that accident by striking the > stone wall and shattering into a million pieces. I still wear the > helmet that I bought to replace that one. > That explains the shrunken head. Kidding, Mat. I don't recall ever wearing a helmet on a bicycle. I also don't ever recall riding a bicycle in the kind of traffic Frank rides in. I would definitely wear one were I commuting in an urban environment. I used to ride motorcycles off-road. I always wore a helmet. I've wrapped more than one bike around a tree, tumbled down very steep inclines I had no business riding on, and on one occasion hit a ditch with vertical sides that was wider and deeper than the tire's diameter. The bike stopped, I didn't. Fortunately, I caught a knee on the handlebars which sent my head straight for the ground. I cut a little trench in the dirt with my helmet that was nearly six feet long. Fun times! Strangely enough, I've never broken any bones. I tend to only wear a helmet riding on the street when the weather is bad, the bugs are out, or the law requires it. It's certainly a risk, and I've had to rely on my reflexes and the bike's acceleration to get me out of trouble more than once. But it's a hell of a lot more fun without that damned thing making my head all sweaty. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com Shoot more film! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/1/06, Bob Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I believe the law should read, "If you won't wear a helmet on your > motorcycle, no public funds or insurance monies may be used to support > your life or recovery after an accident." > Bicycle riding is another matter, but still deserves the helmet. > Regards, Bob S. > This is actually very interesting, Bob. A few years ago Kentucky partially repealed their helmet law for motorcyclists. If you're 21 or older and carry a certain amount of bodily injury insurance, you can ride without one. If you're younger or don't want to pay for the extra insurance, buying only the state minimum, you have to wear it. I like this thinking. Puts responsibility on the rider, and takes it off the taxpayer. I'm not sure if the state will cover medical expenses once the insurance runs out. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com Shoot more film! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
Your wise neurosurgeon might care to reflect on this: (http://www.cyclecraft.co.uk/digest/effectiveness.pdf) "... the average distance cycled per person in the UK each year is only 62 km42 (and in the Netherlands only 850 km43), so the average cyclist would expect a serious injury only once in more than 80 lifetimes. In Australia the promotion of helmets for car occupants is being considered. Research by the University of Adelaide and Monash University44 has shown that bicycle-style helmets would afford motorists more protection than interior padding, air bags or seat belts. Helmets could lessen the severity of 50% to 60% of motorist brain injuries and avoid 1 in 5 fatal crashes. A subsequent report from New Zealand45 notes that helmets for car occupants have been proved to be more effective in preventing serious injury than helmets for cyclists. Conclusions The wearing of helmets by cyclists is a controversial and very emotive subject. It is not always easy to disentangle fact from conjecture and views can be strongly polarised. Also, people often find it difficult to make a logical assessment of relative risk. Although there has been much research into cycle helmets, too much of this is suspect with regard to assumptons made and control groups used. It does not relate well to real-world circumstances. Most research has been predictive in nature and based on small samples. Little has looked at the results that have actually been achieved in large population samples when helmet use has increased significantly. No research has put the risk of head injury when cycling into perspective with the risk from other common activities and the overall effect on life expectancy and health. It seems reasonable to expect that reductions in injuries brought about through the wearing of cycle helmets would be reflected in the general accident statistics in places where helmet use has become significant. This should particularly be the case if the more optimistic predictions for injury reduction are correct. However, whole population statistics from Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada show no distinguishable change in fatalities, and statistics for London show no such change for any severity of injury, as helmet use has increased substantially. This suggests that the real-world performance of cycle helmets may be falling well short of the predictions that have been made." -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Bertil Holmberg > Sent: 01 November 2006 20:50 > To: pdml@pdml.net > Subject: RE: Adults on bicycles > > My old neurosurgery teacher said: > > "It is wise to use a helmet, > it protects the brain, > that is were the wisdom is located." > > Regards, > Bertil > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
thanks to the magic of HG's time machine, Orson was simultaneously his grandfather and his niece. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of graywolf > Sent: 01 November 2006 12:23 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > Oh, well, I was having one of those senior moments and was > thinking of > Orson Wells who became famous with a radio broadcast based > upon one of > HG's stories. I wonder if they were related? Yes, I know I could look > that up... > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
I believe the law should read, "If you won't wear a helmet on your motorcycle, no public funds or insurance monies may be used to support your life or recovery after an accident." Bicycle riding is another matter, but still deserves the helmet. Regards, Bob S. On 11/1/06, Mat Maessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be completely > > in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit a cyclist. > > Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle and rider, > > physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll take > > whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > > inexpensive. > > There's a saying in the motorcycle community: > > "'I had the right of way' is a terrible epithet for your gravestone." > > I still have the scars on my arm from a bicycle accident I had when I > was 14. The helmet saved my life in that accident by striking the > stone wall and shattering into a million pieces. I still wear the > helmet that I bought to replace that one. > > -Mat > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
My old neurosurgery teacher said: ”It is wise to use a helmet, it protects the brain, that is were the wisdom is located." Regards, Bertil -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/1/06, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be completely > in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit a cyclist. > Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle and rider, > physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll take > whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > inexpensive. There's a saying in the motorcycle community: "'I had the right of way' is a terrible epithet for your gravestone." I still have the scars on my arm from a bicycle accident I had when I was 14. The helmet saved my life in that accident by striking the stone wall and shattering into a million pieces. I still wear the helmet that I bought to replace that one. -Mat -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re: Adults on bicycles
I use a bike to get to work from the beginning of April to the end of October each year and I never used a helmet (or had an accident) until last year. Then someone reminded me that my head was realy not only mine any more and that I have three kids who at least partially depend on it. Then I started using a helmet. DagT > Fra: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have only rode bicycles for a short while, less than sixty years, but > I have never fallen off and landed on my head. Most of my contemporaries > managed to get through at least childhood without wearing a helmet too. > I imagine those laws sure do make a lot of money for the helmet sellers, > however. > > I have my own opinion about who is a stupid git in this issue, people > who fall on their heads all the time! > > --graywolf > > > David Mann wrote: > > On Nov 1, 2006, at 5:29 AM, Bertil Holmberg wrote: > > > >> The up to date version should be: > >> > >> "Every time I see and adult cyclist wearing a helmet, I no longer > >> despair for the human race" > > > > Last week I saw a fellow riding down one of our local trails without > > a helmet. I don't care that it was the easiest track on the hill, or > > that he was going slowly; he's still a stupid git. Technically he > > may have been breaking the law due to the "paper-road" status of that > > track. > > > > My own helmet saved me from a nasty knock last Saturday. Pity I > > almost broke my thumb as well, so I can't ride offroad for now... > > although I might do some hill climbs this weekend as I need to work > > off the sympathy chocolate. I think I can manage braking on the > > road, so getting back down shouldn't be too hair-raising. > > > > - Dave (have you ever tried to brush your teeth with the other hand?) > > > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> > OTOH, it is a personal decision, and I wouldn't think less of someone > who has perhaps decided that they don't want or need a helmet... > Precisely, and I would not think less of someone who chose to wear one. I am an adult of sound mind. It's not for some health-and-safety-obsessed busybody to tell me what to do. If I were taking part in one of the dangerous cycling activities, such as hell-for-leather off-road riding down rock-strewn mountains, I would wear some serious safety gear, including a helmet. Maybe even two. However, road touring, commuting and occasional off-road cycling such as bridleways and towpaths is no more dangerous than walking provided one knows how to deal with traffic, which I do. And for every academic, statistical study which shows that helmet laws lengthen lives, an equal number can be quoted that show they make no difference, or even (paradoxically) shorten lives. Here is an anti-helmet-law site: http://www.cycle-helmets.com/england_helmets.html -- Cheers, Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
My crack may open wider for you, Cotty... I have 5 days more holiday this year than last (but still no time to take it all!) and I need to plan how to use it. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Cotty > Sent: 01 November 2006 08:05 > To: pentax list > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On 1/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >Hmm. Maybe. > > That's a small crack of willingness I can just get my crowbar of > persuasion into > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
> > The only dead person I have seen in the UK, outside a coffin, was a > cyclist who had just been knocked over. > > John > I guess you've been lucky. I've seen dead motorists, dead shoppers who were waiting for a lift, and dead motor-cyclists (all wearing helmets), but never a dead cyclist. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
One of the symptoms after a head injury is lack of memory. Especially about the accident itself. Draw your own conclusions Tom ;-) Tim (who tend to forget using a helmet when riding a bike) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of graywolf Sent: 1. november 2006 13:14 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles I have only rode bicycles for a short while, less than sixty years, but I have never fallen off and landed on my head. Most of my contemporaries managed to get through at least childhood without wearing a helmet too. I imagine those laws sure do make a lot of money for the helmet sellers, however. I have my own opinion about who is a stupid git in this issue, people who fall on their heads all the time! --graywolf David Mann wrote: > On Nov 1, 2006, at 5:29 AM, Bertil Holmberg wrote: > >> The up to date version should be: >> >> "Every time I see and adult cyclist wearing a helmet, I no longer >> despair for the human race" > > Last week I saw a fellow riding down one of our local trails without > a helmet. I don't care that it was the easiest track on the hill, or > that he was going slowly; he's still a stupid git. Technically he > may have been breaking the law due to the "paper-road" status of that > track. > > My own helmet saved me from a nasty knock last Saturday. Pity I > almost broke my thumb as well, so I can't ride offroad for now... > although I might do some hill climbs this weekend as I need to work > off the sympathy chocolate. I think I can manage braking on the > road, so getting back down shouldn't be too hair-raising. > > - Dave (have you ever tried to brush your teeth with the other hand?) > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Nov 1, 2006, at 5:23 AM, John Forbes wrote: > Here lies the body of Michael O'Shay, > Who died defending the right of way. > He was right, dead right, as he sailed along, > But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong. > > I don't tend to wear a helmet, though common sense dictates that I > should. On the other hand, I don't like the nanny state telling me > what > to do. I never listened to the nanny state. When I was a child, bicycle helmets were uncommon and I rode without one. But from the point of being age 16 and beyond, I got away from bicycles, rode motorcycles and hung around racing cars ... and anyone with any brains in their heads knew that wearing a helmet was essential for survival if anything untoward occurred in those endeavors. When I took up bicycling again as a young adult, riding without a helmet was unthinkable to me. A dear friend of mine nearly lost his life in a bicycle accident right around then, 25 years ago; without the helmet he would have been dead. He survives to this day, still rides. I didn't realize until this thread came up that they were required by law now, even though I bought a new bicycle, new helmet and riding gloves this past summer. Riding without a helmet on a bicycle is just about as unthinkable to me as riding a motocycle, or flying to the moon, without one. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
> > From: "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/01 Wed PM 12:30:05 GMT > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On 01/11/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have only rode bicycles for a short while, less than sixty years, but > > I have never fallen off and landed on my head. Most of my contemporaries > > managed to get through at least childhood without wearing a helmet too. > > I imagine those laws sure do make a lot of money for the helmet sellers, > > however. > > > > I have my own opinion about who is a stupid git in this issue, people > > who fall on their heads all the time! > > It's law in every state here too. > > Evaluation of the Bicycle Helmet Wearing Law in Victoria during its > First Four Years > http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc076.html > > http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2000/Bic_Crash_5.aspx What utter twaddle. It gives a number representing the reduction in facial injuries when wearing a bicycle helmet. Possibly that is due to the peak catching on the road and tipping your head forwards, therefore preventing your face rubbing on the surface. Which might explain the increase in neck injuries.. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 13:03:49 -, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 11/1/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I have only rode bicycles for a short while, less than sixty years, but >> I have never fallen off and landed on my head. Most of my contemporaries >> managed to get through at least childhood without wearing a helmet too. >> I imagine those laws sure do make a lot of money for the helmet sellers, >> however. >> >> I have my own opinion about who is a stupid git in this issue, people >> who fall on their heads all the time! > > I'm always amused when I hear the money issue brought up WRT helmets. > Just last night, on my way home in the dark, I passed another cyclist > who had no lights, thus breaking the law. I wondered why one would > spend from several hundred to several thousand dollars on a bike > wouldn't spend another $15 on a headlight - at that price theyr'e > almost disposable. > > The same goes for helmets. One can be gotten for as cheap as $30US or > less. I doubt that many helmet makers are making a whole hell of a > lot on their cheapest helmets. > > All that being said, perhaps I'm a stupid git. I've had at least > three occasions in the past few years where I fell from my bike and > struck my head. I believe that on at least two of those occasions my > helmet saved me from a concussion, or worse. Seems to me that being a > stupid git, I have to jealously guard the few brain cells I have left, > so a helmet's a pretty good idea for the likes of me. > > Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be completely > in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit a cyclist. > Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle and rider, > physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll take > whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and > inexpensive. Here lies the body of Michael O'Shay, Who died defending the right of way. He was right, dead right, as he sailed along, But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong. I don't tend to wear a helmet, though common sense dictates that I should. On the other hand, I don't like the nanny state telling me what to do. The only dead person I have seen in the UK, outside a coffin, was a cyclist who had just been knocked over. John > OTOH, it is a personal decision, and I wouldn't think less of someone > who has perhaps decided that they don't want or need a helmet... > > cheers, > frank > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 11/1/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have only rode bicycles for a short while, less than sixty years, but > I have never fallen off and landed on my head. Most of my contemporaries > managed to get through at least childhood without wearing a helmet too. > I imagine those laws sure do make a lot of money for the helmet sellers, > however. > > I have my own opinion about who is a stupid git in this issue, people > who fall on their heads all the time! I'm always amused when I hear the money issue brought up WRT helmets. Just last night, on my way home in the dark, I passed another cyclist who had no lights, thus breaking the law. I wondered why one would spend from several hundred to several thousand dollars on a bike wouldn't spend another $15 on a headlight - at that price theyr'e almost disposable. The same goes for helmets. One can be gotten for as cheap as $30US or less. I doubt that many helmet makers are making a whole hell of a lot on their cheapest helmets. All that being said, perhaps I'm a stupid git. I've had at least three occasions in the past few years where I fell from my bike and struck my head. I believe that on at least two of those occasions my helmet saved me from a concussion, or worse. Seems to me that being a stupid git, I have to jealously guard the few brain cells I have left, so a helmet's a pretty good idea for the likes of me. Then there's always the possibility that a cyclist may be completely in the right, and that a car might be in the wrong and hit a cyclist. Since cars have a mass of some 20 times that of a bicycle and rider, physics tend to be on the side of the car in collisions. I'll take whatever protection I can, especially if it's unobtrusive and inexpensive. OTOH, it is a personal decision, and I wouldn't think less of someone who has perhaps decided that they don't want or need a helmet... cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 01/11/06, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have only rode bicycles for a short while, less than sixty years, but > I have never fallen off and landed on my head. Most of my contemporaries > managed to get through at least childhood without wearing a helmet too. > I imagine those laws sure do make a lot of money for the helmet sellers, > however. > > I have my own opinion about who is a stupid git in this issue, people > who fall on their heads all the time! It's law in every state here too. Evaluation of the Bicycle Helmet Wearing Law in Victoria during its First Four Years http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc076.html http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2000/Bic_Crash_5.aspx -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Oh, well, I was having one of those senior moments and was thinking of Orson Wells who became famous with a radio broadcast based upon one of HG's stories. I wonder if they were related? Yes, I know I could look that up... mike wilson wrote: >> From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: 2006/11/01 Wed AM 01:47:38 GMT >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles >> >> Let's see, did he say that before WWII when almost no adults in the US >> rode bicycles, durning WWII when many rode out of necessity, after WWII >> when adults never would be caught on one in fear that others would think >> they could not afford an automobile, or in the 70's and later when >> bicycles became a high tech fad? He wasn't around in the 1880's when it >> was a wild wild craze. > > On the contrary, he was in his physical peak (born 1860something) at that > time and almost certainly participated. It was the only way to meet ladies > who were willing to wear skirts above the ankle. He was probably remeniscing > in his dotage. > >> Inquiring minds want to know ... When do we set the Wayback >> Machine for, Peabody? >> >> >> Bob W wrote: >>> "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer >>> despair for the human race" >>> >>> Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: >>> http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Bob >>> >>> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> > > > - > Email sent from www.ntlworld.com > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software > Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
I have only rode bicycles for a short while, less than sixty years, but I have never fallen off and landed on my head. Most of my contemporaries managed to get through at least childhood without wearing a helmet too. I imagine those laws sure do make a lot of money for the helmet sellers, however. I have my own opinion about who is a stupid git in this issue, people who fall on their heads all the time! --graywolf David Mann wrote: > On Nov 1, 2006, at 5:29 AM, Bertil Holmberg wrote: > >> The up to date version should be: >> >> "Every time I see and adult cyclist wearing a helmet, I no longer >> despair for the human race" > > Last week I saw a fellow riding down one of our local trails without > a helmet. I don't care that it was the easiest track on the hill, or > that he was going slowly; he's still a stupid git. Technically he > may have been breaking the law due to the "paper-road" status of that > track. > > My own helmet saved me from a nasty knock last Saturday. Pity I > almost broke my thumb as well, so I can't ride offroad for now... > although I might do some hill climbs this weekend as I need to work > off the sympathy chocolate. I think I can manage braking on the > road, so getting back down shouldn't be too hair-raising. > > - Dave (have you ever tried to brush your teeth with the other hand?) > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
> > From: graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/11/01 Wed AM 01:47:38 GMT > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > Let's see, did he say that before WWII when almost no adults in the US > rode bicycles, durning WWII when many rode out of necessity, after WWII > when adults never would be caught on one in fear that others would think > they could not afford an automobile, or in the 70's and later when > bicycles became a high tech fad? He wasn't around in the 1880's when it > was a wild wild craze. On the contrary, he was in his physical peak (born 1860something) at that time and almost certainly participated. It was the only way to meet ladies who were willing to wear skirts above the ankle. He was probably remeniscing in his dotage. > > Inquiring minds want to know ... When do we set the Wayback > Machine for, Peabody? > > > Bob W wrote: > > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer > > despair for the human race" > > > > Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: > > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Bob > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 1/11/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >Hmm. Maybe. That's a small crack of willingness I can just get my crowbar of persuasion into -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
Hmm. Maybe. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Cotty > Sent: 31 October 2006 23:52 > To: pentax list > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On 31/10/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >He's a subtle one is Frank - he could mean anything. > > You must meet Frank. How about North Carolina in June? > > -- > > > Cheers, > Cotty > > > ___/\__ > || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche > ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com > _ > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Nov 1, 2006, at 5:29 AM, Bertil Holmberg wrote: > The up to date version should be: > > "Every time I see and adult cyclist wearing a helmet, I no longer > despair for the human race" Last week I saw a fellow riding down one of our local trails without a helmet. I don't care that it was the easiest track on the hill, or that he was going slowly; he's still a stupid git. Technically he may have been breaking the law due to the "paper-road" status of that track. My own helmet saved me from a nasty knock last Saturday. Pity I almost broke my thumb as well, so I can't ride offroad for now... although I might do some hill climbs this weekend as I need to work off the sympathy chocolate. I think I can manage braking on the road, so getting back down shouldn't be too hair-raising. - Dave (have you ever tried to brush your teeth with the other hand?) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Frank, I can only say, "HAR!". frank theriault wrote: > On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer >> despair for the human race" >> >> Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: >> http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > Well, if the bicyclist is the main subject of the photo, I'd have > thought he could have made it a bit sharper. Perhaps if he'd have > panned? Or, maybe a faster shutter speed would have frozen him. As > an added bonus, his aperture would have opened up a bit, blurring > those distracting stairs and railings a bit. > > Speaking of the stairs, I think if he'd have zoomed in a bit on the > cyclist, he could have eliminated them altogether. Then, maybe his > cameras AE would have been able to better deal with the exposure of > the cyclist, which is a bit dark, to my eye. > > All in all, however, a good attempt, and I think if he works a few of > those details a bit, Mr. Bresson may become a fine photographer > someday, just like Kenny Rockwell is. > > Thanks for posting this, Bob. > > cheers, > framnk -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
I rode my bicycle to work today. :) On Oct 31, 2006, at 2:53 AM, Bob W wrote: > > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer > despair for the human race" > > Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > -- > Regards, > Bob > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
Let's see, did he say that before WWII when almost no adults in the US rode bicycles, durning WWII when many rode out of necessity, after WWII when adults never would be caught on one in fear that others would think they could not afford an automobile, or in the 70's and later when bicycles became a high tech fad? He wasn't around in the 1880's when it was a wild wild craze. Inquiring minds want to know ... When do we set the Wayback Machine for, Peabody? Bob W wrote: > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer > despair for the human race" > > Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > -- > Regards, > Bob > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 31/10/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: >He's a subtle one is Frank - he could mean anything. You must meet Frank. How about North Carolina in June? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
He's a subtle one is Frank - he could mean anything. -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of John Francis > Sent: 31 October 2006 22:37 > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 04:58:17PM -0500, Mark Roberts wrote: > > frank theriault wrote: > > > > >On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> I never wear a bicycle helmet. I don't even one, and I > cycle everyday > > >> (2 days at weekends). > > > > > >Obviously... > > > > Could you clarify this a bit, Frank. Do you mean you think > it's obvious > > he never wears a helmet? (Inquiring minds and all that...) > > My guess is that Frank's comment is aimed at the parenthetical phrase. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 10/31/06, John Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My guess is that Frank's comment is aimed at the parenthetical phrase. That's as plausible an explanation as I can provide. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 10/31/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Could you clarify this a bit, Frank. Do you mean you think it's obvious > he never wears a helmet? (Inquiring minds and all that...) I have no idea what I meant. I rarely do. cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Tue, Oct 31, 2006 at 04:58:17PM -0500, Mark Roberts wrote: > frank theriault wrote: > > >On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I never wear a bicycle helmet. I don't even one, and I cycle everyday > >> (2 days at weekends). > > > >Obviously... > > Could you clarify this a bit, Frank. Do you mean you think it's obvious > he never wears a helmet? (Inquiring minds and all that...) My guess is that Frank's comment is aimed at the parenthetical phrase. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
frank theriault wrote: >On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I never wear a bicycle helmet. I don't even one, and I cycle everyday >> (2 days at weekends). > >Obviously... Could you clarify this a bit, Frank. Do you mean you think it's obvious he never wears a helmet? (Inquiring minds and all that...) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I never wear a bicycle helmet. I don't even one, and I cycle everyday > (2 days at weekends). Obviously... -frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Adults on bicycles
I never wear a bicycle helmet. I don't even one, and I cycle everyday (2 days at weekends). -- Cheers, Bob > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Bertil Holmberg > Sent: 31 October 2006 16:30 > To: pdml@pdml.net > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > The up to date version should be: > > "Every time I see and adult cyclist wearing a helmet, I no longer > despair for the human race" > > Take care, Bertil > > 31 okt 2006 kl. 09:39 skrev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, > "I no longer > > despair for the human race" > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 10/31/06, John Forbes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You're absolutely right, Frank, but I don't think this chap had AE and > zoom lenses. It only goes to show that you need decent equipment if you > want to take a good photograph. > We must remember: People don't take photographs, cameras do... cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
The up to date version should be: "Every time I see and adult cyclist wearing a helmet, I no longer despair for the human race" Take care, Bertil 31 okt 2006 kl. 09:39 skrev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer > despair for the human race" -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
> > From: "frank theriault" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/10/31 Tue PM 01:07:12 GMT > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Subject: Re: Adults on bicycles > > On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer > > despair for the human race" > > > > Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: > > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > Well, if the bicyclist is the main subject of the photo, I'd have > thought he could have made it a bit sharper. Perhaps if he'd have > panned? Or, maybe a faster shutter speed would have frozen him. As > an added bonus, his aperture would have opened up a bit, blurring > those distracting stairs and railings a bit. > > Speaking of the stairs, I think if he'd have zoomed in a bit on the > cyclist, he could have eliminated them altogether. Then, maybe his > cameras AE would have been able to better deal with the exposure of > the cyclist, which is a bit dark, to my eye. > > All in all, however, a good attempt, and I think if he works a few of > those details a bit, Mr. Bresson may become a fine photographer > someday, just like Kenny Rockwell is. > > Thanks for posting this, Bob. > Seconded. I like the boys discussing the Tour on their racers. Today, they would probably be sitting in a darkened room playing "Lance's Tour" on their Xbox/Playstation/PC. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:07:12 -, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer >> despair for the human race" >> >> Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: >> http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ > > Well, if the bicyclist is the main subject of the photo, I'd have > thought he could have made it a bit sharper. Perhaps if he'd have > panned? Or, maybe a faster shutter speed would have frozen him. As > an added bonus, his aperture would have opened up a bit, blurring > those distracting stairs and railings a bit. > > Speaking of the stairs, I think if he'd have zoomed in a bit on the > cyclist, he could have eliminated them altogether. Then, maybe his > cameras AE would have been able to better deal with the exposure of > the cyclist, which is a bit dark, to my eye. > > All in all, however, a good attempt, and I think if he works a few of > those details a bit, Mr. Bresson may become a fine photographer > someday, just like Kenny Rockwell is. You're absolutely right, Frank, but I don't think this chap had AE and zoom lenses. It only goes to show that you need decent equipment if you want to take a good photograph. John > Thanks for posting this, Bob. > > cheers, > framnk -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Adults on bicycles
On 10/31/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle", said H G Wells, "I no longer > despair for the human race" > > Cast your despair to the four winds, and enjoy: > http://todayspictures.slate.com/20061031/ Well, if the bicyclist is the main subject of the photo, I'd have thought he could have made it a bit sharper. Perhaps if he'd have panned? Or, maybe a faster shutter speed would have frozen him. As an added bonus, his aperture would have opened up a bit, blurring those distracting stairs and railings a bit. Speaking of the stairs, I think if he'd have zoomed in a bit on the cyclist, he could have eliminated them altogether. Then, maybe his cameras AE would have been able to better deal with the exposure of the cyclist, which is a bit dark, to my eye. All in all, however, a good attempt, and I think if he works a few of those details a bit, Mr. Bresson may become a fine photographer someday, just like Kenny Rockwell is. Thanks for posting this, Bob. cheers, framnk -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
