Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 30/10/10, Tanya Love, discombobulated, unleashed:

> Bill *could* have been exclaiming in a high pitched feminine
>voice

There are many many things in this world that I can easily imagine. This
is not one of them.

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 30/10/10, Tanya Love, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Cotty, those yanks won't get that!  A "fanny pack" isn't funny to them.  On
>the other hand, it's not lost on us Aussies, I *know* what a "fanny" is and
>I really don't think you are part of said "pack"! lol.

Yeah but I wanna be ;-)

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Tanya Love]

Bob, you are indeed a wordsmith my friend, there must be 3 or 4 quotes of
the year in that there post!


Tanya Love
Photographer

www.lovebytes.com.au
m: 0458 006 740




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bob
W
Sent: Monday, 25 October 2010 2:44 AM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: OT: new camera

that's quite easy. People are free to do whatever they want as long as they
don't infringe other people's rights to the same thing - my freedom to swing
my fist stops where your face begins.

Where words are concerned, people have the right to say any damn thing they
want provided other people are not forced to listen to them, and have the
right to reply. If they say something actionable, of course, they can expect
to find themselves in court - one should not have to tolerate lies - but
simply insulting someone as an expression of opinion is something we should
all tolerate.

Without wishing to dwell on specifics, if B calls G an F all this tells us
is that B is in fact an A.

Bob


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Tanya Love]

Bill Robb, go to the naughty chair!  I am your Nanny!

Lol!


Tanya Love
Photographer

www.lovebytes.com.au
m: 0458 006 740




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
David J Brooks
Sent: Sunday, 24 October 2010 11:21 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

We need a PDML time out corner.

Dave


-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Tanya Love]

Great question John!


Tanya Love
Photographer

www.lovebytes.com.au
m: 0458 006 740




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of John
Sessoms
Sent: Sunday, 24 October 2010 10:54 PM
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

How far should tolerance of intolerance extend?



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Tanya Love]

I agree Frank, totally, HOWEVER, I do think that it *can* be taken in
another way...

I am a huge fan of the gay community.  The warmth and openness it has is
awesome, and the bitchiness ("omg, he's sleeping with my ex-boyfriend, that
bitch!") provides me with hours of entertainment! Lol.

Many of my closest friends are gay, and I am pretty sure that my eldest son
may be too (he doesn't know it himself yet though).

Re: the word "faggot" - somebody else touched on this too - we all know that
it depends who says it and how it is said that is the big kicker here.  For
example a "nigger" is fine if you are black and you are saying "yo nigga" to
one of your friends.  Likewise with faggot - heaps of my gay friends do the
same, ie. greet either other with "hey fag boy" and similar.  

And to add to this, me being the rose amongst the thorns of many of my male
gay friends, I am, of course, known to many as a "fag hag".  I'm proud of it
too, cause it is two simple words that tell the word that I am absolutely
not bigoted, or homophobic, and this is a great way to be, IMO.

Using the internet can be tough as we generally lack the advantage given to
us by body language, and tone of voice when we say stuff.  I know that my
words are often soo  misconstrued by my own mother for example, who is
uneducated and generally misreads what I say in my emails to her.

Likewise, Bill *could* have been exclaiming in a high pitched feminine
voice,  "oh, Godfrey, you pompous twit faggot!", whilst sitting with a
scotch in his hand, his legs crossed (in a camp, ladylike fashion), head
thrown back and giggling, and wearing pink fluffy slippers, whilst
fluttering his eyelids at him, and it could have been a term of endearment!
Of course, we know that wasn't the intention here, but you know, stranger
things have happened...

Can I make another observation here?

This entire thing has played out amongst the men of this list - am I missing
something here or isn't it the female gender that is supposed to be the
dramatic, over sensitive one?!? ;-)


Tanya Love
Photographer

www.lovebytes.com.au
m: 0458 006 740




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
frank theriault
Sent: Sunday, 24 October 2010 10:13 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:58 AM, William Robb  wrote:

>> IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>
> Show me where anything in that sentence isn't true Frank?
> You may not like the choice of terminology, but it doesn't indicate 
> bigotry, only contempt, which is not the same thing.

I guess you could make the same argument if you called a person of African
descent a nigger or a Jew a kike.

You know damned well that the word "faggot" is offensive, derogatory and
meant to demean a person's sexual preference - it simply can't be taken in
any other way.

-frank




--
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Tanya Love]

Cotty, those yanks won't get that!  A "fanny pack" isn't funny to them.  On
the other hand, it's not lost on us Aussies, I *know* what a "fanny" is and
I really don't think you are part of said "pack"! lol.

Tan.x.


Tanya Love
Photographer

www.lovebytes.com.au
m: 0458 006 740




-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
Cotty
Sent: Sunday, 24 October 2010 4:08 AM
To: pentax list
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

On 23/10/10, paul stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:

> it's time for Bill to act like an adult, and it's time for list 
>members to stop excusing his behavior.

I'd like to be the first to offer a conciliatory hand here and play devil's
advocate. It is just possible that Bill was referring to these...

<http://www.la-foodie.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/faggots.jpg>

After all, I've been called one of these on numerous occasions:

<http://www.mbexec.net/files/content_types/blog/fanny_pack.jpg>


--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Bob W wrote:

> 
>> Finally, like Hari Seldon said "I exercise restraint" and this has nothing
> to do
> 
> funny that because his brother Hari Krishna said "The sun is Kali, and I am
> what I am". 

But his band "The Seldon Scene" was the foundation for a whole new music empire.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

> Finally, like Hari Seldon said "I exercise restraint" and this has nothing
to do

funny that because his brother Hari Krishna said "The sun is Kali, and I am
what I am". 

Which kind of brings us full circle in a cosmic sort of way.

B


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

I'm not excusing the offense.  I'm just saying that people being
people are more likely to do bad things with words, especially on a
keyboard.   My point is, to use the old phrase, hate the sin not the
sinner.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:28 AM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> Y'all may be right on that, but hate speech of that type directed publicly at 
> a single named individual is, IMO, a greater offense that hate speech that 
> applies to nameless groups of individuals. It's moot here since Godfrey 
> doesn't seem at all ruffled or intimidated by it. Some individuals would not 
> be so [h] understanding.
>
> Jeffery
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:40 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>
>> Using "hate crime" for this diminishes the use of the phrase when it
>> is actually warranted.  We're talking about a snarky remark expressing
>> dislike (uncivil but in bounds)  expressed in an unacceptable way.
>> Just to note, there has been an expected response.  Folks used their
>> own "freedom of speech" to express their displeasure.  Bill was not
>> banned from the list but left of his own accord in the face of
>> criticism.  That is simply how groups of people work.  I personally
>> hope Bill will cool off a bit and come back.  People make mistakes and
>> you can't shoot them every time their all too common ugly side
>> emerges.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:21 PM, P. J. Alling
>>  wrote:
>>> Political correctness has officially run amuck here.   Hate crime?
>>>  Pulllease  Someone's sensibilities being bruised is not a hate crime.
>>>  Bill Robb, made a truthful statement in as offensive a manor as he could.
>>>  So what.  I've put both Godfrey and Bill on my kill list at different times
>>> for different reasons.  Both can be total SOBs.  Writing something I
>>> personally find, stupid, arrogant, obnoxious, self destructive, insulting,
>>> you name it isn't a crime.  Save calling things crimes that actually are.
>>>
>>> On 10/24/2010 3:36 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

 Boorish is putting it mildly. It DOES fall under hate crime (which
 includes insults and verbal abuse). I think hate crime is a clear line that
 we don't traverse on this list. Pompous gas bag is not a hate crime. Faggot
 is. I would prefer the way William F. Buckley introduced Norman Mailer
 ("unalloyed narcissism"). Mailer even found it charming.

 Jeffery


 On Oct 24, 2010, at 2:22 PM, Walter Gilbert wrote:

>   Shunning someone for boorish behavior isn't trampling on their rights.
>  It's merely depriving them of a platform from which to engage in that
> boorish behavior ... a platform to which no one person is entitled.
>
> -- Walt
>
>
>> why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
>> people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit
>> your
>> right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.
>>
>> Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that
>> means?
>> What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
>> suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.
>>
>> B
>>
>>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed
>>> moral bankruptcy."
>>>     -Woody Allen
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>>> follow the directions.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Desjardins
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>



-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Y'all may be right on that, but hate speech of that type directed publicly at a 
single named individual is, IMO, a greater offense that hate speech that 
applies to nameless groups of individuals. It's moot here since Godfrey doesn't 
seem at all ruffled or intimidated by it. Some individuals would not be so 
[h] understanding.

Jeffery


On Oct 25, 2010, at 6:40 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> Using "hate crime" for this diminishes the use of the phrase when it
> is actually warranted.  We're talking about a snarky remark expressing
> dislike (uncivil but in bounds)  expressed in an unacceptable way.
> Just to note, there has been an expected response.  Folks used their
> own "freedom of speech" to express their displeasure.  Bill was not
> banned from the list but left of his own accord in the face of
> criticism.  That is simply how groups of people work.  I personally
> hope Bill will cool off a bit and come back.  People make mistakes and
> you can't shoot them every time their all too common ugly side
> emerges.
> 
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:21 PM, P. J. Alling
>  wrote:
>> Political correctness has officially run amuck here.   Hate crime?
>>  Pulllease  Someone's sensibilities being bruised is not a hate crime.
>>  Bill Robb, made a truthful statement in as offensive a manor as he could.
>>  So what.  I've put both Godfrey and Bill on my kill list at different times
>> for different reasons.  Both can be total SOBs.  Writing something I
>> personally find, stupid, arrogant, obnoxious, self destructive, insulting,
>> you name it isn't a crime.  Save calling things crimes that actually are.
>> 
>> On 10/24/2010 3:36 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>> 
>>> Boorish is putting it mildly. It DOES fall under hate crime (which
>>> includes insults and verbal abuse). I think hate crime is a clear line that
>>> we don't traverse on this list. Pompous gas bag is not a hate crime. Faggot
>>> is. I would prefer the way William F. Buckley introduced Norman Mailer
>>> ("unalloyed narcissism"). Mailer even found it charming.
>>> 
>>> Jeffery
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 24, 2010, at 2:22 PM, Walter Gilbert wrote:
>>> 
   Shunning someone for boorish behavior isn't trampling on their rights.
  It's merely depriving them of a platform from which to engage in that
 boorish behavior ... a platform to which no one person is entitled.
 
 -- Walt
 
 
> why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
> people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit
> your
> right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.
> 
> Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that
> means?
> What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
> suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.
> 
> B
> 
> 
 
 --
 PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
 to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
 follow the directions.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed
>> moral bankruptcy."
>> -Woody Allen
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Desjardins
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

Using "hate crime" for this diminishes the use of the phrase when it
is actually warranted.  We're talking about a snarky remark expressing
dislike (uncivil but in bounds)  expressed in an unacceptable way.
Just to note, there has been an expected response.  Folks used their
own "freedom of speech" to express their displeasure.  Bill was not
banned from the list but left of his own accord in the face of
criticism.  That is simply how groups of people work.  I personally
hope Bill will cool off a bit and come back.  People make mistakes and
you can't shoot them every time their all too common ugly side
emerges.

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 11:21 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:
> Political correctness has officially run amuck here.   Hate crime?
>  Pulllease  Someone's sensibilities being bruised is not a hate crime.
>  Bill Robb, made a truthful statement in as offensive a manor as he could.
>  So what.  I've put both Godfrey and Bill on my kill list at different times
> for different reasons.  Both can be total SOBs.  Writing something I
> personally find, stupid, arrogant, obnoxious, self destructive, insulting,
> you name it isn't a crime.  Save calling things crimes that actually are.
>
> On 10/24/2010 3:36 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>> Boorish is putting it mildly. It DOES fall under hate crime (which
>> includes insults and verbal abuse). I think hate crime is a clear line that
>> we don't traverse on this list. Pompous gas bag is not a hate crime. Faggot
>> is. I would prefer the way William F. Buckley introduced Norman Mailer
>> ("unalloyed narcissism"). Mailer even found it charming.
>>
>> Jeffery
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2010, at 2:22 PM, Walter Gilbert wrote:
>>
>>>   Shunning someone for boorish behavior isn't trampling on their rights.
>>>  It's merely depriving them of a platform from which to engage in that
>>> boorish behavior ... a platform to which no one person is entitled.
>>>
>>> -- Walt
>>>
>>>
 why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
 people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit
 your
 right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.

 Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that
 means?
 What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
 suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.

 B


>>>
>>> --
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>>> follow the directions.
>>
>
>
> --
> "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed
> moral bankruptcy."
>     -Woody Allen
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>



-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 8:42 PM, Bob W wrote:

why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit your
right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.

B


It is pretty much impossible to limit anyone from saying anything on 
line. But that does not imply that we should all start saying things 
that if broadcast on modern TV would result in a monotonous sound of 
beep instead of human speech...


Boris


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 10:02 PM, paul stenquist wrote:

I didn't find it the least bit entertaining. Sorry, but verbal abuse is not my 
thing.
Paul


I totally agree, Paul. You're quite right.

Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 7:06 PM, paul stenquist wrote:

Exactly. Of course since this right of expression extends to all, we
are all free to point out bigotry and abominable behavior when it
occurs. And if the person who made the nasty comment can't handle the
fact that his conduct was duly noted, then he is free to leave. Paul


I agree with you, Paul. But anyone is free to leave at any time. And 
given that Doug moderates (manages?) this list, it would be solely?! his 
call to invite anyone to leave.


I recall that you and I had the discussion very similar to this one the 
previous time around. It seems to me that our positions are closer than 
they might seem.


Finally, like Hari Seldon said "I exercise restraint" and this has 
nothing to do either with my background or anything else really, except 
intellectual recognition of the fact that participating in a public and 
open community such as this means that certain things are naturally left 
outside.


Boris





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[P. J. Alling]

Political correctness has officially run amuck here.   Hate crime?  
Pulllease  Someone's sensibilities being bruised is not a hate 
crime.  Bill Robb, made a truthful statement in as offensive a manor as 
he could.  So what.  I've put both Godfrey and Bill on my kill list at 
different times for different reasons.  Both can be total SOBs.  Writing 
something I personally find, stupid, arrogant, obnoxious, self 
destructive, insulting, you name it isn't a crime.  Save calling things 
crimes that actually are.


On 10/24/2010 3:36 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

Boorish is putting it mildly. It DOES fall under hate crime (which includes insults and 
verbal abuse). I think hate crime is a clear line that we don't traverse on this list. 
Pompous gas bag is not a hate crime. Faggot is. I would prefer the way William F. Buckley 
introduced Norman Mailer ("unalloyed narcissism"). Mailer even found it 
charming.

Jeffery


On Oct 24, 2010, at 2:22 PM, Walter Gilbert wrote:


   Shunning someone for boorish behavior isn't trampling on their rights.  It's 
merely depriving them of a platform from which to engage in that boorish 
behavior ... a platform to which no one person is entitled.

-- Walt



why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit your
right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.

Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that means?
What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.

B




--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.





--
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral 
bankruptcy."
 -Woody Allen


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[P. J. Alling]

Learn the joy's of manual focus.  Autofocus is for wimps.

On 10/23/2010 10:39 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter lag 
is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?

The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot of 
lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time the 
shutter actually fired.

Jeffery

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


I needed a significant improvement in camera responsiveness and two
stops more sensitivity/dynamic range to obtain satisfactory overhead
room. This camera solves that problem with room to spare.





--
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral 
bankruptcy."
 -Woody Allen


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Matthew Hunt]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> On Oct 24, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Sandy Harris wrote:
>
>> However, it is obviously not a hate crime.
>
> Really? Does one have to use that word while committing an armed robbery or 
> punching the recipient?

Well, yes, that's pretty much what makes it a "hate crime" as opposed
to "hate speech."

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 7:48 PM, Sandy Harris wrote:

> However, it is obviously not a hate crime.


Really? Does one have to use that word while committing an armed robbery or 
punching the recipient? 

Gay bashing has become a very hot button issue in the US, particularly in the 
past month, as has cyber-bashing. People need to be more cognizant that what 
they post on a forum is seen by everyone in the forum, and when it gets 
archived on the web, it can be seen by anyone in the world. I closed my 
Facebook account after seeing just how stupid people are in posting crap on 
their home page.

One can pretty well destroy a person's career by pointing out that he/she used 
the n-word or the f-word in a post on the Internet. Even using the n-word in 
making a point regarding not using the n-word can get you unemployed very 
quickly. If one is going to throw the n-bomb or f-bomb around, one had better 
be self-employed in an area where PR is not an issue. Like garbage collection 
(that doesn't rely on a public contract).

Jeffery
 




-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Sandy Harris]

Jeffery Smith  wrote:

> Boorish is putting it mildly. It DOES fall under hate crime
> (which includes insults and verbal abuse). I think hate
> crime is a clear line that we don't traverse on this list.
> Pompous gas bag is not a hate crime. Faggot is. ...

Let's not go off the deep end here. Yes, it was a thoroughly stupid
thing to say and completely inappropriate for the list. Bill should
apologise.

However, it is obviously not a hate crime. Advocating Hilter's
policy of putting "deviants" in concentration camps would be,
or encouraging "gay bashing" by gangs of "clean minded"
young men would be.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Still, I prefer him over today's far right. But, yes, he was breathtakingly 
full of himself.

Jeffert

On Oct 24, 2010, at 7:01 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

> OTOH, Buckley had his own moments of pompous gas baggery and boorishness. No 
> actual civility from either side here.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[John Sessoms]

From: Larry Colen

On Oct 24, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Ken Waller wrote:


>
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
>
> - Original Message - From: 
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
>
>

>> Oh, new word alert: the Doug-ban.

>
> Is it all percussion or does it have woodwinds & strings in it too?


Percussion and gasbags.


Sounds like something by PDQ Bach.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[John Sessoms]

From: Jeffery Smith

Boorish is putting it mildly. It DOES fall under hate crime (which
includes insults and verbal abuse). I think hate crime is a clear
line that we don't traverse on this list. Pompous gas bag is not a
hate crime. Faggot is. I would prefer the way William F. Buckley
introduced Norman Mailer ("unalloyed narcissism"). Mailer even found
it charming.



OTOH, Buckley had his own moments of pompous gas baggery and 
boorishness. No actual civility from either side here.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymnxoQnf8

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 2:52 PM, Ken Waller wrote:

> 
> Kenneth Waller
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
> 
> - Original Message - From: 
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
> 
> 
>> Oh, new word alert: the Doug-ban.
> 
> Is it all percussion or does it have woodwinds & strings in it too?


Percussion and gasbags.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Ken Waller]

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: 

Subject: Re: OT: new camera



Oh, new word alert: the Doug-ban.


Is it all percussion or does it have woodwinds & strings in it too?



-Original Message-
From: Boris Liberman 

Subject: Re: OT: new camera

On 10/24/2010 10:21 AM, Bob W wrote:

the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should 
try

to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
grown-ups, and it's just an email list.


Oh, I did not mean to ban like in Doug-ban, rather as a mutual agreement
of grown ups to avoid using certain terms or words or raise certain 
issues.


Boris



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Ken Waller]

If someone insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - 
we're all

grown-ups, and it's just an email list.


Oh MARK !

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob W" 

Subject: RE: OT: new camera



Concerning the foul language, I think that it should be common agreement
that Igor, I and partially Bob W are the biggest. If Igor and/or I start

with
Russian Mat, it won't be pretty at all. And Bob, given his 
multilinguinity

:-) will

be our deputy :-).

On the serious note, I still fail to see how one's sexual preferences or

any

other such preferences of private matter have to do with this list.
Specifically, I am thinking that even mention of one's sexual preferences
should be simply banned by common agreement here.



the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should try
to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
grown-ups, and it's just an email list.

B



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Carlos R]

El 24/10/2010 22:02, paul stenquist escribió:




I didn't find it the least bit entertaining. Sorry, but verbal abuse is not my 
thing.
Paul



Very well said, Paul.

Carlos

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

> 
> On Oct 24, 2010, at 10:06 AM, eckinator wrote:
> 
>> 2010/10/24 Doug Franklin :
>>> On 2010-10-24 12:43, Bob W wrote:
>>> 
 - one should not have to tolerate lies - but
 simply insulting someone as an expression of opinion is something we
 should
 all tolerate.
>> 
>> to some extent. i think insulting someone based on an inherent
>> property or trait is crossing a line. calling names is fine short of
>> that line IMO but not beyond it. i can handle pompous twit as an
>> insult just fine but faggot is too much
> 
> After seeing that quote of Godfrey's from a while back,  I can see that he's 
> well capable of defending himself in a name calling fest.  It was so 
> entertaining, that I may have to start calling the twink names myself, so as 
> to be treated to more of his festive prose.
> 
> 
I didn't find it the least bit entertaining. Sorry, but verbal abuse is not my 
thing.
Paul

> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 10:06 AM, eckinator wrote:

> 2010/10/24 Doug Franklin :
>> On 2010-10-24 12:43, Bob W wrote:
>> 
>>> - one should not have to tolerate lies - but
>>> simply insulting someone as an expression of opinion is something we
>>> should
>>> all tolerate.
> 
> to some extent. i think insulting someone based on an inherent
> property or trait is crossing a line. calling names is fine short of
> that line IMO but not beyond it. i can handle pompous twit as an
> insult just fine but faggot is too much

After seeing that quote of Godfrey's from a while back,  I can see that he's 
well capable of defending himself in a name calling fest.  It was so 
entertaining, that I may have to start calling the twink names myself, so as to 
be treated to more of his festive prose.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Boorish is putting it mildly. It DOES fall under hate crime (which includes 
insults and verbal abuse). I think hate crime is a clear line that we don't 
traverse on this list. Pompous gas bag is not a hate crime. Faggot is. I would 
prefer the way William F. Buckley introduced Norman Mailer ("unalloyed 
narcissism"). Mailer even found it charming.

Jeffery


On Oct 24, 2010, at 2:22 PM, Walter Gilbert wrote:

>   Shunning someone for boorish behavior isn't trampling on their rights.  
> It's merely depriving them of a platform from which to engage in that boorish 
> behavior ... a platform to which no one person is entitled.
> 
> -- Walt
> 
> 
>> why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
>> people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit your
>> right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.
>> 
>> Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that means?
>> What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
>> suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.
>> 
>> B
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Walter Gilbert]

   Shunning someone for boorish behavior isn't trampling on their 
rights.  It's merely depriving them of a platform from which to engage 
in that boorish behavior ... a platform to which no one person is entitled.


-- Walt



why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit your
right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.

Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that means?
What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.

B





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 5:53 AM, John Sessoms wrote:

> How far should tolerance of intolerance extend?
> 

A friend of mine says that there are only two things that the Swedes won't 
tolerate, bigotry and gypsys.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[eckinator]

2010/10/24 Bob W :
>
> why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
> people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit your
> right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads.

negative. i was only pointing out what I feel people should limit
themselves to. I am not in favor of censorship, PC policing or any
other form of euphemismism prettytalkery. I think we should all be
adult enough to shrug off or laugh in the face of quite a level of
insult and I am cool with that. By the same token I think we should
also be adult enough to know what we don't want to get called out on.

> Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that means?
> What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
> suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.

OK let me rephrase that. Matters of fact as opposed to matters of
judgement. Sexual preference may be subject to change but it is a fact
for the time being. Same for being fat, jewish, muslim, Nikonian or
what have you. Pompous twittery is a different story - to some people
Paris Hilton is a marketing genius, to me she is a pompous twit -
again for lack of a better example. Make sense now?

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Jack Davis]

etc, etc, etc, etc



--- On Sun, 10/24/10, Bob W  wrote:

> From: Bob W 
> Subject: RE: OT: new camera
> To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" 
> Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010, 11:42 AM
> > to some extent. i think
> insulting someone based on an inherent property or
> > trait is crossing a line. calling names is fine short
> of that line IMO but
> not
> > beyond it. i can handle pompous twit as an insult just
> fine but faggot is
> too
> > much
> 
> why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you
> limit other
> people's right to say things you don't like, someone else
> will limit your
> right to say things they don't like. We all know where that
> leads. 
> 
> Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties,
> whatever that means?
> What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property?
> Does that
> suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think
> so.
> 
> B
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
> directly above and follow the directions.
> 


  

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

> to some extent. i think insulting someone based on an inherent property or
> trait is crossing a line. calling names is fine short of that line IMO but
not
> beyond it. i can handle pompous twit as an insult just fine but faggot is
too
> much

why? isn't pompous twittery also an inherent trait? If you limit other
people's right to say things you don't like, someone else will limit your
right to say things they don't like. We all know where that leads. 

Secondly, why do you limit it to inherent properties, whatever that means?
What if being gay turns out not to be an inherent property? Does that
suddenly make it ok to insult gay people? I don't think so.

B


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 12:53 PM, Doug Franklin wrote:

> On 2010-10-24 12:43, Bob W wrote:
> 
>> - one should not have to tolerate lies - but
>> simply insulting someone as an expression of opinion is something we should
>> all tolerate.
> 
> FWIW, that's my position, too, Bob.

Exactly. Of course since this right of expression extends to all, we are all 
free to point out bigotry and abominable behavior when it occurs. And if the 
person who made the nasty comment can't handle the fact that his conduct was 
duly noted, then he is free to leave. 
Paul
> -- 
> Thanks,
> DougF (KG4LMZ)
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[eckinator]

2010/10/24 Doug Franklin :
> On 2010-10-24 12:43, Bob W wrote:
>
>> - one should not have to tolerate lies - but
>> simply insulting someone as an expression of opinion is something we
>> should
>> all tolerate.

to some extent. i think insulting someone based on an inherent
property or trait is crossing a line. calling names is fine short of
that line IMO but not beyond it. i can handle pompous twit as an
insult just fine but faggot is too much

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Doug Franklin]

On 2010-10-24 12:43, Bob W wrote:


- one should not have to tolerate lies - but
simply insulting someone as an expression of opinion is something we should
all tolerate.


FWIW, that's my position, too, Bob.

--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

that's quite easy. People are free to do whatever they want as long as they
don't infringe other people's rights to the same thing - my freedom to swing
my fist stops where your face begins.

Where words are concerned, people have the right to say any damn thing they
want provided other people are not forced to listen to them, and have the
right to reply. If they say something actionable, of course, they can expect
to find themselves in court - one should not have to tolerate lies - but
simply insulting someone as an expression of opinion is something we should
all tolerate.

Without wishing to dwell on specifics, if B calls G an F all this tells us
is that B is in fact an A.

Bob

> 
> How far should tolerance of intolerance extend?
> 
> From: Steven Desjardins
> > I'm never happy to see anyone just go away. Tolerance extends in many
> > directions. We're never stronger for losing someone, even if that
> > strength is the result of patience on our part. Maybe I'm sensitive to
> > this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said things on
> > occasion that I deeply regret later. On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:12 PM,
> > paul stenquist  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
> >>>
> > I certainly don't want to see Bill go away. ?I can deal just fine
> > with his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it adds to a
> > discussion.
> >>>
> >>> I don't want to see him go away either. But his language isn't just
> >>> direct, it's frequently abusive. There's no excusing his attack on
> >>> Godfrey. Godfrey and I have gone toe-to-toe on more than one
> >>> occasion, but we managed to do it without being disgusting and
> >>> personally abusive.
> >>>
> >>> Bill has responded to me in an ugly fashion on more than one
> >>> occasion when I disagreed with him , and I've called him out on it
> >>> every time.In response, he grows even more vile. Yes, I can be
> >>> aggressive, but I don't resort to personal attacks. To do so is
> >>> childish and totally unacceptable.
> >>>
> >>> ?There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree
> >>> with him, apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But
> >>> I'm not going to tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone
> >>> else should have to either. If he wants to behave like an adult, he
> >>> should come back. Otherwise, he should disappear. Paul
> >>>
> >>>
> > ?As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
> > "faggot". ? It was an inappropriate choice of word and Paul's
> > comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate. ?If someone
> > referred to a person of color as a "nigger" in the heat of an
> > argument then people would be appalled and the orginal argument
> > would become moot. This has nothing to do with strong opinions or
> > heated responses. ?It about the use of a word that has moved
> > beyond its casual use and has become a vile pejorative in the eyes
> > of many. ?Words change their connotations and sometimes
> > misunderstandings occur during the transition period.
> >
> >
> > "> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity
> > here -
> >>> now that's really gotta hurt ?;-)
> >>>
> 
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

> >the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
> >silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should
> >try to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real
> >world company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments -
> >then everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If
> >someone insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it -
> >we're all grown-ups, and it's just an email list.
> 
> It's alright for you, you never justified the holocaust !
> 

for the benefit of our non-native English speakers, there's a verb for that:
to irve. 

< http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11381483>

B


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

it's Japanese

> 
> Oh, new word alert: the Doug-ban.
> -Original Message-
> From: Boris Liberman 
> Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 10:46:36
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
> 
> On 10/24/2010 10:21 AM, Bob W wrote:
> > the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans
> > is silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People
> > should try to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be
> > in real world company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our
> > moments - then everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want
> > to. If someone insults you then you should be big enough to deal with
> > it - we're all grown-ups, and it's just an email list.
> 
> Oh, I did not mean to ban like in Doug-ban, rather as a mutual agreement
of
> grown ups to avoid using certain terms or words or raise certain issues.
> 
> Boris
> 
> 
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[John Sessoms]

From: Boris Liberman

On the serious note, I still fail to see how one's sexual preferences or
any other such preferences of private matter have to do with this list.
Specifically, I am thinking that even mention of one's sexual
preferences should be simply banned by common agreement here.


I don't agree with prior restraint or censorship with regard to subject, 
but think we should not to use pejoratives or make ad hominem attacks.


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 4:50 AM, Subash  wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 02:51:08 -0700
> Larry Colen  wrote:
>
>> On Oct 24, 2010, at 1:52 AM, Subash wrote:
>
>> > http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2007-February/057146.html
>>
>> Thank you Subash. It's nice to know that somebody on this list can
>> write something approaching decent invective.
>
> i see your concerns are over style and i am sure you'd agree that that's
> a matter of personal preference. most times i would prefer brevity over
> sophistry ym, of course, mv...

I have to admit, reading that several years removed from the writing
of it, I laughed out loud. Not bad for a college faggot, eh? ]:-)

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 12:18 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> On 10/23/2010 4:28 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>> For me, what this pro-grade body nets as advantage (other
>> than its  improvements in image stabilization, viewfinder quality,
>> resolution, etc over my existing equipment, is it's responsiveness
>> and noise control.
>
> Oh! So, my assumption is approved by you here. You don't need pro grade gear
> for its extended longevity or sturdiness and resistance to elements. It is
> other aspects. Again, not attacking you in any way - rather trying to
> understand you.
>
> What you say makes perfect sense to me.

Yes. The extended longeity, sturdiness, weather proofing are plusses
... I appreciate them ... but they're not what nets me, personally,
the advantage I needed most.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[drd1135]

Oh, new word alert: the Doug-ban. 
-Original Message-
From: Boris Liberman 
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 10:46:36 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

On 10/24/2010 10:21 AM, Bob W wrote:
> the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
> silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should try
> to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
> company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
> everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
> insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
> grown-ups, and it's just an email list.

Oh, I did not mean to ban like in Doug-ban, rather as a mutual agreement 
of grown ups to avoid using certain terms or words or raise certain issues.

Boris


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.
-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[drd1135]

As long as we can reasonably absorb the damage and hope for change. I realize 
the key word here is "reasonably". 
-Original Message-
From: John Sessoms 
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 08:53:43 
To: 
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

How far should tolerance of intolerance extend?

From: Steven Desjardins
> I'm never happy to see anyone just go away. Tolerance extends in many
> directions. We're never stronger for losing someone, even if that
> strength is the result of patience on our part. Maybe I'm sensitive
> to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said things on
> occasion that I deeply regret later. On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:12 PM,
> paul stenquist  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I certainly don't want to see Bill go away. ?I can deal just
>>>>> fine with his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it
>>>>> adds to a discussion.
>>>
>>> I don't want to see him go away either. But his language isn't
>>> just direct, it's frequently abusive. There's no excusing his
>>> attack on Godfrey. Godfrey and I have gone toe-to-toe on more
>>> than one occasion, but we managed to do it without being
>>> disgusting and personally abusive.
>>>
>>> Bill has responded to me in an ugly fashion on more than one
>>> occasion when I disagreed with him , and I've called him out on
>>> it every time.In response, he grows even more vile. Yes, I can be
>>> aggressive, but I don't resort to personal attacks. To do so is
>>> childish and totally unacceptable.
>>>
>>> ?There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree
>>> with him, apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But
>>> I'm not going to tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone
>>> else should have to either. If he wants to behave like an adult,
>>> he should come back. Otherwise, he should disappear. Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>>> ?As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
>>>>> "faggot". ? It was an inappropriate choice of word and
>>>>> Paul's comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate. ?If
>>>>> someone referred to a person of color as a "nigger" in the
>>>>> heat of an argument then people would be appalled and the
>>>>> orginal argument would become moot. This has nothing to do
>>>>> with strong opinions or heated responses. ?It about the use
>>>>> of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has become
>>>>> a vile pejorative in the eyes of many. ?Words change their
>>>>> connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during
>>>>> the transition period.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in
>>>>> longevity here -
>>>>>>> now that's really gotta hurt ?;-)
>>>>>>>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.
-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 24/10/10, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

>you're starting to sound like Cotty*
>
>Bob
>
>*I used the C-word...

Them's fighting words.

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 24/10/10, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed:

>the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
>silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should try
>to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
>company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
>everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
>insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
>grown-ups, and it's just an email list.

It's alright for you, you never justified the holocaust !

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[David J Brooks]

We need a PDML time out corner.

Dave


-- 
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jack Davis]

I missed all the "new camera" angst. With the frequency of the thread I might 
have guessed its nature, but happily, I didn't. Nor dis I go back to catch up 
on the rhetoric.
Bill and I had a "difference" early on in my tenure on the list that was 
intense, but short lived. I look forward to Bill"s wit and clarity and 
consistently check his thread comments. I very much value his perceived respect 
for my thoughts and work. His leaving the list would be sad indeed.

Jack 

--- On Sun, 10/24/10, Boris Liberman  wrote:

> From: Boris Liberman 
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Sunday, October 24, 2010, 12:10 AM
> On 10/24/2010 3:28 AM, Jeffery Smith
> wrote:
> > It's easy to get angry on forums, but some posts go
> beyond anger.
> > I've lost my cool on forums before, and regretted it.
> I've apologized
> > both onlist and offlist (simultaneously) when I've
> overstepped
> > civility. It's a win-win resolution. Apologies were
> always accepted.
> > 
> > It doesn't hurt, and it isn't eating crow.
> > 
> > Jeffery
> 
> Indeed. Also as someone who met Bill in person (in Chicago
> this year) I should say that he is not kind of person that
> he seems to be on the list or even, should I say, is
> portrayed by certain others on the list.
> 
> I should also say that I very much would like to meet with
> everyone on the list, as I am sure such an experience will
> prove beneficial for all involved parties. And absolutely,
> I'd like to meet Godfrey in person too.
> 
> Boris
> 
> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
> directly above and follow the directions.
> 


  

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[John Sessoms]

How far should tolerance of intolerance extend?

From: Steven Desjardins

I'm never happy to see anyone just go away. Tolerance extends in many
directions. We're never stronger for losing someone, even if that
strength is the result of patience on our part. Maybe I'm sensitive
to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said things on
occasion that I deeply regret later. On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:12 PM,
paul stenquist  wrote:


On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:


I certainly don't want to see Bill go away. ?I can deal just
fine with his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it
adds to a discussion.


I don't want to see him go away either. But his language isn't
just direct, it's frequently abusive. There's no excusing his
attack on Godfrey. Godfrey and I have gone toe-to-toe on more
than one occasion, but we managed to do it without being
disgusting and personally abusive.

Bill has responded to me in an ugly fashion on more than one
occasion when I disagreed with him , and I've called him out on
it every time.In response, he grows even more vile. Yes, I can be
aggressive, but I don't resort to personal attacks. To do so is
childish and totally unacceptable.

?There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree
with him, apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But
I'm not going to tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone
else should have to either. If he wants to behave like an adult,
he should come back. Otherwise, he should disappear. Paul



?As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
"faggot". ? It was an inappropriate choice of word and
Paul's comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate. ?If
someone referred to a person of color as a "nigger" in the
heat of an argument then people would be appalled and the
orginal argument would become moot. This has nothing to do
with strong opinions or heated responses. ?It about the use
of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has become
a vile pejorative in the eyes of many. ?Words change their
connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during
the transition period.


"> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in
longevity here -

now that's really gotta hurt ?;-)



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 4:21 AM, Bob W wrote:

>> Concerning the foul language, I think that it should be common agreement
>> that Igor, I and partially Bob W are the biggest. If Igor and/or I start
> with
>> Russian Mat, it won't be pretty at all. And Bob, given his multilinguinity
> :-) will
>> be our deputy :-).
>> 
>> On the serious note, I still fail to see how one's sexual preferences or
> any
>> other such preferences of private matter have to do with this list.
>> Specifically, I am thinking that even mention of one's sexual preferences
>> should be simply banned by common agreement here.
>> 
> 
> the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
> silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should try
> to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
> company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
> everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
> insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
> grown-ups, and it's just an email list. 
> 
Well said, Bob. 
> B
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[frank theriault]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:58 AM, William Robb  wrote:

>> IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>
> Show me where anything in that sentence isn't true Frank?
> You may not like the choice of terminology, but it doesn't indicate bigotry,
> only contempt, which is not the same thing.

I guess you could make the same argument if you called a person of
African descent a nigger or a Jew a kike.

You know damned well that the word "faggot" is offensive, derogatory
and meant to demean a person's sexual preference - it simply can't be
taken in any other way.

-frank




-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Subash]

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 02:51:08 -0700
Larry Colen  wrote:

> On Oct 24, 2010, at 1:52 AM, Subash wrote:

> > http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2007-February/057146.html
> 
> Thank you Subash. It's nice to know that somebody on this list can
> write something approaching decent invective.

i see your concerns are over style and i am sure you'd agree that that's
a matter of personal preference. most times i would prefer brevity over
sophistry ym, of course, mv...

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 1:52 AM, Subash wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:21:33 +0100
> "Bob W"  wrote:
> 
>> If they can't be polite - and we all have
>> our moments - then everyone else has the right to ignore them if they
>> want to. 
> 
> you forget people have their self-righteous moments too :)
> 
> and it's not even the first time in my admittedly rather short (4+
> years) stay here that someone's sexual inclinations (assumed or real)
> have surfaced here:
> 
> http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2007-February/057146.html

Thank you Subash. It's nice to know that somebody on this list can write 
something approaching decent invective.

> 
> now, i can't wait to see what further visions of bathroom misadventures
> that'll provoke in Larry... 

I'm not sure whether I've just received a compliment or an insult.

> 
> and i hope Bill gets back...

Likewise.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Subash]

On Sun, 24 Oct 2010 09:21:33 +0100
"Bob W"  wrote:

> If they can't be polite - and we all have
> our moments - then everyone else has the right to ignore them if they
> want to. 

you forget people have their self-righteous moments too :)

and it's not even the first time in my admittedly rather short (4+
years) stay here that someone's sexual inclinations (assumed or real)
have surfaced here:

http://pdml.net/pipermail/pdml_pdml.net/2007-February/057146.html

now, i can't wait to see what further visions of bathroom misadventures
that'll provoke in Larry... 

and i hope Bill gets back...

regards, subash

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

> > the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans
> > is silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People
> > should try to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be
> > in real world company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our
> > moments - then everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want
> > to. If someone insults you then you should be big enough to deal with
> > it - we're all grown-ups, and it's just an email list.
> 
> Oh, f**k off Bob ;-) xxx

you're starting to sound like Cotty*

Bob

*I used the C-word...




-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 10:21 AM, Bob W wrote:

the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should try
to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
grown-ups, and it's just an email list.


Oh, I did not mean to ban like in Doug-ban, rather as a mutual agreement 
of grown ups to avoid using certain terms or words or raise certain issues.


Boris


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Rob Studdert]

On 24 October 2010 19:21, Bob W  wrote:

> the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
> silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should try
> to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
> company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
> everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
> insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
> grown-ups, and it's just an email list.

Oh, f**k off Bob ;-) xxx

-- 
Rob Studdert (Digital  Image Studio)
Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

> Concerning the foul language, I think that it should be common agreement
> that Igor, I and partially Bob W are the biggest. If Igor and/or I start
with
> Russian Mat, it won't be pretty at all. And Bob, given his multilinguinity
:-) will
> be our deputy :-).
> 
> On the serious note, I still fail to see how one's sexual preferences or
any
> other such preferences of private matter have to do with this list.
> Specifically, I am thinking that even mention of one's sexual preferences
> should be simply banned by common agreement here.
> 

the only person who could enforce a ban is Doug, so calling for bans is
silly. Personally I'm not in favour of banning anything. People should try
to be as polite as possible, and as polite as they would be in real world
company. If they can't be polite - and we all have our moments - then
everyone else has the right to ignore them if they want to. If someone
insults you then you should be big enough to deal with it - we're all
grown-ups, and it's just an email list. 

B


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 12:14 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

> On 10/23/2010 9:38 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
>> For example, last month I picked up a friend at the airport, and
>> Candice greeted me with "Yo, niggah!".  When a black woman calls a
>> white jewish man, who is a close friend "niggah", she gets a laugh
>> and a hug.
> 
> I recently learned about existence of work "kike" in English/American 
> language. As a certified zhid to another certified zhid, I suggest, that next 
> time we meet, I'd shout something in lines of "Hi there, kikey! What's up in 
> sunny California?" :-)

Here's one Texan's take on the subject of anti-semitism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD2J23F7vQ4

Unfortunately, he did not win his bid for governor of Texas a few years back.

> 
> ^^
> ||
> A joke
> 
> Boris
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 24, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

> On 10/23/2010 11:02 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
>> The first time you do it, it can take a bit of work, but it's quite
>> easy.  The tricky bit is with the shim behind the screen, getting it
>> to stay in place, or go back in place.  The screens come with a
>> tweezer for holding the screen, but I'd recommend getting another
>> tweezer for replacing the shim when it falls out. Also, invest in
>> powder free gloves before you start.
> 
> I could replace the screen for K10D and I've hit the mark - it was properly 
> aligned. Not so for K-7. When my co-worker and I set out to shim K-7 for Katz 
> Eye screen I realized that three hands were necessary for the process...
> 
> In principle, if at all possible, I wouldn't advise trying such procedure 
> unless one has experience and skills working with really small and really 
> fiddly bits. Fortunately, local Pentax service is very cooperative on these 
> matters, and frankly, having spent in excess of USD 1,000 on a camera, I'd 
> gladly spend another USD 50 on this fiddly bit.

The K-x is quite easy.  As I mentioned, mine had a habit of coming loose of its 
own volition and I've had to replace it without the special tools. Mind you, I 
then had to clean it when I got home.


> 
> Boris
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 10:17 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


I guess I should avoid beans with my huevos rancheros in the future,
eh? ]'-)


'Huevos' sounds awfully close to the certain Russian word which as an 
old joke goes is actually a basis for all fences. First the word is 
written, then the fence is built around it...


Boris


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 11:02 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

The first time you do it, it can take a bit of work, but it's quite
easy.  The tricky bit is with the shim behind the screen, getting it
to stay in place, or go back in place.  The screens come with a
tweezer for holding the screen, but I'd recommend getting another
tweezer for replacing the shim when it falls out. Also, invest in
powder free gloves before you start.


I could replace the screen for K10D and I've hit the mark - it was 
properly aligned. Not so for K-7. When my co-worker and I set out to 
shim K-7 for Katz Eye screen I realized that three hands were necessary 
for the process...


In principle, if at all possible, I wouldn't advise trying such 
procedure unless one has experience and skills working with really small 
and really fiddly bits. Fortunately, local Pentax service is very 
cooperative on these matters, and frankly, having spent in excess of USD 
1,000 on a camera, I'd gladly spend another USD 50 on this fiddly bit.


Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 4:28 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

For me, what this pro-grade body nets as advantage (other
than its  improvements in image stabilization, viewfinder quality,
resolution, etc over my existing equipment, is it's responsiveness
and noise control.


Oh! So, my assumption is approved by you here. You don't need pro grade 
gear for its extended longevity or sturdiness and resistance to 
elements. It is other aspects. Again, not attacking you in any way - 
rather trying to understand you.


What you say makes perfect sense to me.

Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 9:38 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

For example, last month I picked up a friend at the airport, and
Candice greeted me with "Yo, niggah!".  When a black woman calls a
white jewish man, who is a close friend "niggah", she gets a laugh
and a hug.


I recently learned about existence of work "kike" in English/American 
language. As a certified zhid to another certified zhid, I suggest, that 
next time we meet, I'd shout something in lines of "Hi there, kikey! 
What's up in sunny California?" :-)


^^
||
A joke

Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 3:28 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

It's easy to get angry on forums, but some posts go beyond anger.
I've lost my cool on forums before, and regretted it. I've apologized
both onlist and offlist (simultaneously) when I've overstepped
civility. It's a win-win resolution. Apologies were always accepted.

It doesn't hurt, and it isn't eating crow.

Jeffery


Indeed. Also as someone who met Bill in person (in Chicago this year) I 
should say that he is not kind of person that he seems to be on the list 
or even, should I say, is portrayed by certain others on the list.


I should also say that I very much would like to meet with everyone on 
the list, as I am sure such an experience will prove beneficial for all 
involved parties. And absolutely, I'd like to meet Godfrey in person too.


Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 2:12 AM, paul stenquist wrote:

There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree with
him, apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But I'm not
going to tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone else should
have to either. If he wants to behave like an adult, he should come
back. Otherwise, he should disappear. Paul


I had lots of discussions with Bill (off the list) that apparently show 
that his and mine views on a number of matters are of polar nature. Yet 
I can safely say that I respect him and he respects me.


It is also true that Bill's expertise in photography and gear is very 
valuable. It will be a loss to the group if he left. As for his behavior 
- well, it was indeed inappropriate, yet knowing what makes him burst, 
the group could be aware of that in a constructive way. After all, this 
group is /mainly/ about photography.


I am thinking that some mutual apologies are in order. Even not because 
all parties have their hands dirty here, but simply to show that these 
parties are willing to take a step towards the other parties and go on 
living in mutual agreement of disagreement on certain matters.


Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 6:41 PM, paul stenquist wrote:

Using the "F word" to describe a gay male is equivalent to using the
"N word" to describe a person of color. Both indicate intolerance,
which is the definition of bigotry. Both are grossly unacceptable on
any forum. Of course, when Robb erupts into obscenities and name
calling, most list members consider it amusing. "Oh, that's Bill,"
they say. Well, it's time for Bill to act like an adult, and it's
time for list members to stop excusing his behavior. Paul


Paul


Paul's right. I'd like to add that it applies to everyone, not just Bill...

Boris

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

Concerning the foul language, I think that it should be common agreement 
that Igor, I and partially Bob W are the biggest. If Igor and/or I start 
with Russian Mat, it won't be pretty at all. And Bob, given his 
multilinguinity :-) will be our deputy :-).


On the serious note, I still fail to see how one's sexual preferences or 
any other such preferences of private matter have to do with this list. 
Specifically, I am thinking that even mention of one's sexual 
preferences should be simply banned by common agreement here.


Boris


On 10/23/2010 1:31 PM, frank theriault wrote:

Attack his words and ideas?

Fine.

Attack his sexual preference?

Completely out of line.

IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.

cheers,
frank


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Christine Aguila]

Very nice, Godfrey.  Enjoy I did.  Cheers, Christine


- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" 

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: OT: new camera


A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"

Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm

enjoy!
--
Godfrey
godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
follow the directions.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

It's easy to get angry on forums, but some posts go beyond anger. I've lost my 
cool on forums before, and regretted it. I've apologized both onlist and 
offlist (simultaneously) when I've overstepped civility. It's a win-win 
resolution. Apologies were always accepted.

It doesn't hurt, and it isn't eating crow. 

Jeffery

On Oct 23, 2010, at 8:03 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
> many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
> that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
> sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
> things on occasion that I deeply regret later.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:08 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

> 
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
> 
>> I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
>> many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
>> that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
>> sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
>> things on occasion that I deeply regret later.
>> 
> I'm disappointed that he left too.
> 
I would be most happy if Bill decided to stay and behave in a civil manner. We 
have had some very productive exchanges over the years. But the negatives far 
outweigh the positives. So without a substantial change in the way he 
corresponds with others on the list, I would rather not see him back here. 
However, that's not my call or even my concern. It's his decision, in more ways 
than one.. 

Paul

> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
> many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
> that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
> sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
> things on occasion that I deeply regret later.
> 
I'm disappointed that he left too.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

 I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
things on occasion that I deeply regret later.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:12 PM, paul stenquist  wrote:
>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>
>> I certainly don't want to see Bill go away.  I can deal just fine with
>> his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it adds to a
>> discussion.
>
> I don't want to see him go away either. But his language isn't just direct, 
> it's frequently abusive. There's no excusing his attack on Godfrey. Godfrey 
> and I have gone toe-to-toe on more than one occasion, but we managed to do it 
> without being disgusting and personally abusive.
>
> Bill has responded to me in an ugly fashion on more than one occasion when I 
> disagreed with him , and I've called him out on it every time.In response, he 
> grows even more vile. Yes, I can be aggressive, but I don't resort to 
> personal attacks. To do so is childish and totally unacceptable.
>
>  There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree with him, 
> apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But I'm not going to 
> tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone else should have to either. 
> If he wants to behave like an adult, he should come back. Otherwise, he 
> should disappear.
> Paul
>
>
>>  As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
>> "faggot".   It was an inappropriate choice of word and Paul's
>> comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate.  If someone referred
>> to a person of color as a "nigger" in the heat of an argument then
>> people would be appalled and the orginal argument would become moot.
>> This has nothing to do with strong opinions or heated responses.  It
>> about the use of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has
>> become a vile pejorative in the eyes of many.  Words change their
>> connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during the
>> transition period.
>>
>>
>> "> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
>>> now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>  Cotty
>>>
>>>
>>> ___/\__
>>> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
>>> --      http://www.cottysnaps.com
>>> _"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Desjardins
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>



-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I certainly don't want to see Bill go away.  I can deal just fine with
> his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it adds to a
> discussion.

I don't want to see him go away either. But his language isn't just direct, 
it's frequently abusive. There's no excusing his attack on Godfrey. Godfrey and 
I have gone toe-to-toe on more than one occasion, but we managed to do it 
without being disgusting and personally abusive.

Bill has responded to me in an ugly fashion on more than one occasion when I 
disagreed with him , and I've called him out on it every time.In response, he 
grows even more vile. Yes, I can be aggressive, but I don't resort to personal 
attacks. To do so is childish and totally unacceptable.

 There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree with him, 
apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But I'm not going to 
tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone else should have to either. If 
he wants to behave like an adult, he should come back. Otherwise, he should 
disappear.
Paul


>  As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
> "faggot".   It was an inappropriate choice of word and Paul's
> comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate.  If someone referred
> to a person of color as a "nigger" in the heat of an argument then
> people would be appalled and the orginal argument would become moot.
> This has nothing to do with strong opinions or heated responses.  It
> about the use of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has
> become a vile pejorative in the eyes of many.  Words change their
> connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during the
> transition period.
> 
> 
> "> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
>> now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>>  Cotty
>> 
>> 
>> ___/\__
>> ||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
>> --  http://www.cottysnaps.com
>> _"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Desjardins
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera - shutter lag

[Steven Desjardins]

The Lumix 20 1.7 is also very good, but considerably wider.

One feature of recent EVF cameras is that the use of MF switches the
LCD to maximum magnification.  It's very useful in situations where
things aren't moving too quickly and you can just use a small portion
of the "viewfinder" to compose the shot.  Still, as the electronics
get faster this feature could become much more useful.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> I'll probably try the K-7 with the 77/1.8 in manual mode for the next 
> production (Bat Boy) as long as their is enough light on the main subject to 
> allow manual focusing. My eyes are not getting better with age. At least this 
> will give me some idea of whether then K-7 is a better body than the K-x for 
> theatre productions given the ambient conditions.
>
> One combination I have not considered is the Panasonic Lumix with Zuiko 50mm 
> macro. I'll probably toss it in the bag as well.
>
> Jeffery
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>>> From: Jeffery Smith
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 10:40 AM
>>>
>>> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter
>>> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is
>>> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
>>>
>>> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the
>>> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot
>>> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time
>>> the shutter actually fired.
>>
>> - DR seems quite good. I haven't done my usual round of DR tests yet
>> ... I won't until I can test using .ORFs in Lightroom as that's how
>> all my other tests are done, and I'll reprocess all the older tests in
>> the latest LR3 raw converter alongside the E-5. But I did some quick
>> shots in very poor, contrasty light and even in the JPEGs I'm getting
>> pretty amazing DR (around 10 stops from noise to saturation) even at
>> ISO 1600, along with excellent detailing.
>>
>> - Shutter lag with AF enabled is simply not an issue with this camera,
>> unlike with the E-1, Pentax K10D and *ist DS, Canon 10D or Panasonic
>> L1. The Panasonic G1 does better than most of those DSLRs in poor
>> light, not quite as well in good light, and the E-5 does better than
>> it does in either.
>>
>> (BTW: It's never been an issue with any DSLR or the G1 if I was
>> focusing manually, which truth to tell is 80% of the time in poor
>> lighting circumstances.)
>>
>> --
>> Godfrey
>>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>
> Jeffery L. Smith
> New Orleans, LA
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>



-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

I certainly don't want to see Bill go away.  I can deal just fine with
his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it adds to a
discussion.  As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
"faggot".   It was an inappropriate choice of word and Paul's
comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate.  If someone referred
to a person of color as a "nigger" in the heat of an argument then
people would be appalled and the orginal argument would become moot.
This has nothing to do with strong opinions or heated responses.  It
about the use of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has
become a vile pejorative in the eyes of many.  Words change their
connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during the
transition period.


"> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
> now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
> --      http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _"




-- 
Steve Desjardins

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Lot of people have asked me what the noise at various ISO settings
looks like. This might answer:

http://www.gdgphoto.com/Olympus_E-5-ISO_check/

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Thanks Paul! :-)

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:38 PM, P N Stenquist  wrote:
> I really like the immediacy of this. When I clicked it open, I was certain
> that he was going to speak:-).
> Paul
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>>
>> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>> "If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>>
>> Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>> ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>>
>> enjoy!
>> --
>> Godfrey
>>  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

I may look at this sort of thing about 100 times first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqZCjT-jr1s


On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

> 
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Is the Katzeye relatively easy to install on the Pentax? I've never had an 
>> issue with screen swapping on Rolleiflexes, but they are big and easy to 
>> fool with.
>> 
> 
> The first time you do it, it can take a bit of work, but it's quite easy.  
> The tricky bit is with the shim behind the screen, getting it to stay in 
> place, or go back in place.  The screens come with a tweezer for holding the 
> screen, but I'd recommend getting another tweezer for replacing the shim when 
> it falls out. Also, invest in powder free gloves before you start.
> 
> Likewise, before you start, do some focus tests with the stock screen, and 
> make sure things are right. My K20 came with a second shim wedged in behind, 
> I just never noticed that manual focus was off until I bought the katzeye.
> 
> By the way, the service at Katzeye is stellar. I won't bore the list with my 
> stories again, but when I had problems with the extra shim, Rachel Katz's 
> help was amazing. As in I got a phone call back minutes after I sent a note 
> commenting on my focus being off.
> 
> 
> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> 
> 
> Is the Katzeye relatively easy to install on the Pentax? I've never had an 
> issue with screen swapping on Rolleiflexes, but they are big and easy to fool 
> with.
> 

The first time you do it, it can take a bit of work, but it's quite easy.  The 
tricky bit is with the shim behind the screen, getting it to stay in place, or 
go back in place.  The screens come with a tweezer for holding the screen, but 
I'd recommend getting another tweezer for replacing the shim when it falls out. 
Also, invest in powder free gloves before you start.

Likewise, before you start, do some focus tests with the stock screen, and make 
sure things are right. My K20 came with a second shim wedged in behind, I just 
never noticed that manual focus was off until I bought the katzeye.

By the way, the service at Katzeye is stellar. I won't bore the list with my 
stories again, but when I had problems with the extra shim, Rachel Katz's help 
was amazing. As in I got a phone call back minutes after I sent a note 
commenting on my focus being off.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[P N Stenquist]

I really like the immediacy of this. When I clicked it open, I was  
certain that he was going to speak:-).

Paul
On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"

Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm

enjoy!
--
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above  
and follow the directions.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Yes ... the 11-22 has very very very little corner falloff at f/5.6.
The portrait seemed to lack depth without a little vignette.

Godfrey

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> Did you induce the vignetting effect? It's pretty pronounced here.
>
> Jeffery L. Smith
> New Orleans, LA
>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>>
>> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>> "If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>>
>> Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>> ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>>
>> enjoy!
>> --
>> Godfrey
>>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

thanks Cotty!

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Cotty  wrote:
> On 23/10/10, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>>
>>http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>>"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>>
>>Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>>ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>>
>>enjoy!
>
> I see you're loving that new toy er camera. That's a lovely portrait.
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
> --      http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> ... Besides, "pompous twit faggot"? Are you in third grade? I've seen better 
> taunts from 10 year olds. Use some creativity man. Say that Godfrey is such a 
> flaming gasbag that he makes the Hindenburg look like someone farting on a 
> lit match.

I guess I should avoid beans with my huevos rancheros in the future, eh? ]'-)
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Did you induce the vignetting effect? It's pretty pronounced here.

Jeffery L. Smith
New Orleans, LA

On Oct 23, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
> 
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
> "If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
> 
> Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
> ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
> 
> enjoy!
> -- 
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[eckinator]

2010/10/23 William Robb :

*filter off, hand out*

> Paul, if you want to rein me in, then you also need to rein in people who
> would control what subjects are acceptable.

I doubt that could possibly hurt anyone's feelings for more than a second.

> My recent lack of activity on list is indicative of my ongoing realization
> that it's relevance to my photographic interests.

I think your latest eruption belies your interest.

> Perhaps it's time, after a dozen or so years, to say goodbye.

I tend to read your posts with interest and respect you as much as the
next guy. How about you just show some respect from now on and go
about expressing your contempt somewhat more civilly? If you do care
about people on this list, why don't you enrich us by sharing your
photographic interests and make this list a better place for it? If
you don't care about the people, I agree that you might as well leave
but I fail to see the necessity.
Cheers
Ecke

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 23/10/10, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>
>http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>
>Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>
>enjoy!

I see you're loving that new toy er camera. That's a lovely portrait.

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"

Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm

enjoy!
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 8:58 AM, William Robb wrote:

> 
> --
> From: "frank theriault"
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
> 
> 
> 
>> IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
> 
> Show me where anything in that sentence isn't true Frank?
> You may not like the choice of terminology, but it doesn't indicate bigotry, 
> only contempt, which is not the same thing.

Godfrey may be pompous and a twit, but those are hardly rare traits for anyone 
on this list, as I'm about to demonstrate.  And while being a faggot is nowhere 
near as bad as shooting Canon, the word carries a lot of negative emotional 
loading, especially in this context, and with these words, context is 
everything. For example, last month I picked up a friend at the airport, and 
Candice greeted me with "Yo, niggah!".  When a black woman calls a white jewish 
man, who is a close friend "niggah", she gets a laugh and a hug.  If, on the 
other hand, I were to go to downtown Oakland and greet someone I didn't know 
with that exact phrase, the reception would not be nearly as warm and friendly.

I know that you're a nice guy Bill, and not the sort of bigoted asshole that 
the phrase made you seem, and if you are a bigoted asshole, I'd rather maintain 
the illusion that my friends aren't.

And, while we're on the subject, I will point out that Godfrey is not blameless 
either, because he did indeed bait you, provoking you into seeming the asshole.

Besides, "pompous twit faggot"? Are you in third grade? I've seen better taunts 
from 10 year olds. Use some creativity man. Say that Godfrey is such a flaming 
gasbag that he makes the Hindenburg look like someone farting on a lit match.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Hey Larry,

I have to admit that I really avoid manual focusing of late because of the lack 
of a split prism/split image focusing screen. For me, matte focusing screens 
were only useful when using a tele that was so slow that half of the split 
images blacked out. On Nikon SLRs in the 70's, it was called a K-screen.  To 
give you some idea of how ignorant I am of modern dSLRs, I didn't realize that 
the user could change screens until I went to the Katzeye site and downloaded 
the instructions (!). User-changeable screens was such a perk back in the 70's, 
if the screen was changeable, the customer knew it as it was highly touted in 
the specifications and user manual.

I haven't fooled around much with histograms in the theater productions because 
the lighting changes from minute to minute. This is one of those rare occasions 
when automation seems to work far better than my futzing with the controls. I 
get a spot reading on the subject's chest or face, and keep the shutter button 
partially depressed. I do have to experiment a bit more with the green button 
feature, and will pull out my Magic Lantern book this evening to get a better 
grip on some of the program features.

Is the Katzeye relatively easy to install on the Pentax? I've never had an 
issue with screen swapping on Rolleiflexes, but they are big and easy to fool 
with.

Jeffery


On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:12 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

> 
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:39 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> 
>> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter 
>> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
>> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
>> 
>> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
>> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot 
>> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time 
>> the shutter actually fired. 
> 
> My K-x is set up so that the AE-lock button is also the autofocus lock 
> button. If I feel that I can trust the autofocus to pick the right thing to 
> focus on (especially tough without the indicator lights) I'll use autofocus 
> to prefocus, then hit the lock button so the camera fires when I'm ready.  
> Alternatively, I have a katzeye focusing screen, so manual focus is easy for 
> me in cases like that, and I'll just manually focus.
> 
> If you think that the debates about sensor size, or vi vs. emacs, or any of 
> the other religious wars are bad, try to avoid the matte glass vs. split 
> prism debate. For me, when I first bought a katzeye screen, it was like 
> growing back a lost appendage. I have had a weird problem with my K-x in that 
> the focusing screen has a nasty habit of falling out. I may have tweaked the 
> metal bracket just a bit, and I *think* I tried to bend it back the last time 
> that it happened.
> 
> I haven't done a lot of theater work, but I do a lot of band photography, and 
> I think that they are probably fairly similar in what challenges you face. By 
> the way, do you check your histograms and expose for the brightest channel 
> when manually setting your exposure?
> 
> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

Jeffery L. Smith
New Orleans, LA



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:39 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter 
> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
> 
> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot 
> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time 
> the shutter actually fired. 

My K-x is set up so that the AE-lock button is also the autofocus lock button. 
If I feel that I can trust the autofocus to pick the right thing to focus on 
(especially tough without the indicator lights) I'll use autofocus to prefocus, 
then hit the lock button so the camera fires when I'm ready.  Alternatively, I 
have a katzeye focusing screen, so manual focus is easy for me in cases like 
that, and I'll just manually focus.

If you think that the debates about sensor size, or vi vs. emacs, or any of the 
other religious wars are bad, try to avoid the matte glass vs. split prism 
debate. For me, when I first bought a katzeye screen, it was like growing back 
a lost appendage. I have had a weird problem with my K-x in that the focusing 
screen has a nasty habit of falling out. I may have tweaked the metal bracket 
just a bit, and I *think* I tried to bend it back the last time that it 
happened.

I haven't done a lot of theater work, but I do a lot of band photography, and I 
think that they are probably fairly similar in what challenges you face. By the 
way, do you check your histograms and expose for the brightest channel when 
manually setting your exposure?

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera - shutter lag

[Jeffery Smith]

I'll probably try the K-7 with the 77/1.8 in manual mode for the next 
production (Bat Boy) as long as their is enough light on the main subject to 
allow manual focusing. My eyes are not getting better with age. At least this 
will give me some idea of whether then K-7 is a better body than the K-x for 
theatre productions given the ambient conditions.

One combination I have not considered is the Panasonic Lumix with Zuiko 50mm 
macro. I'll probably toss it in the bag as well.

Jeffery


On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:02 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

>> From: Jeffery Smith
>> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 10:40 AM
>> 
>> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter
>> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is
>> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
>> 
>> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the
>> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot
>> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time
>> the shutter actually fired.
> 
> - DR seems quite good. I haven't done my usual round of DR tests yet
> ... I won't until I can test using .ORFs in Lightroom as that's how
> all my other tests are done, and I'll reprocess all the older tests in
> the latest LR3 raw converter alongside the E-5. But I did some quick
> shots in very poor, contrasty light and even in the JPEGs I'm getting
> pretty amazing DR (around 10 stops from noise to saturation) even at
> ISO 1600, along with excellent detailing.
> 
> - Shutter lag with AF enabled is simply not an issue with this camera,
> unlike with the E-1, Pentax K10D and *ist DS, Canon 10D or Panasonic
> L1. The Panasonic G1 does better than most of those DSLRs in poor
> light, not quite as well in good light, and the E-5 does better than
> it does in either.
> 
> (BTW: It's never been an issue with any DSLR or the G1 if I was
> focusing manually, which truth to tell is 80% of the time in poor
> lighting circumstances.)
> 
> -- 
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

Jeffery L. Smith
New Orleans, LA



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera - shutter lag

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> From: Jeffery Smith
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 10:40 AM
>
> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter
> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is
> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
>
> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the
> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot
> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time
> the shutter actually fired.

- DR seems quite good. I haven't done my usual round of DR tests yet
... I won't until I can test using .ORFs in Lightroom as that's how
all my other tests are done, and I'll reprocess all the older tests in
the latest LR3 raw converter alongside the E-5. But I did some quick
shots in very poor, contrasty light and even in the JPEGs I'm getting
pretty amazing DR (around 10 stops from noise to saturation) even at
ISO 1600, along with excellent detailing.

- Shutter lag with AF enabled is simply not an issue with this camera,
unlike with the E-1, Pentax K10D and *ist DS, Canon 10D or Panasonic
L1. The Panasonic G1 does better than most of those DSLRs in poor
light, not quite as well in good light, and the E-5 does better than
it does in either.

(BTW: It's never been an issue with any DSLR or the G1 if I was
focusing manually, which truth to tell is 80% of the time in poor
lighting circumstances.)

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

As Yogi Berra once said, "If Godfrey doesn't want to talk about equipment, you 
can't stop him."

As for Godfrey being pompous, if you had met him in person, you wouldn't feel 
that way. Very often the printed word on a forum makes a person appear 
completely different than their actual demeanor. I spent half a day with 
Godfrey about 5 years ago when he was driving across country. He is friendly, 
outgoing, charismatic, and absolutely jovial. He does his homework before 
making an equipment purchase and generally doesn't need to discuss his 
equipment decisions on-line. I'm lazier, and do seek input from forum members, 
particularly Godfrey. Although he's not crazy about equipment talk, he never 
fails to give me a thoughtful, considerate, insightful answer of no fewer than 
5 paragraphs. 

Sorry, Mr. Robb, but you've got a completely wrong read on him.

Jeffery



On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:10 PM, William Robb wrote:

> this little spat was instigated by a member who would have us desist with 
> technical discussion because he has no use for it.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 23/10/10, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Perhaps it's time, after a dozen or so years, to say goodbye.

Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)

--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 23/10/10, paul stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:

> it's time for Bill to act like an adult, and it's time for list members
>to stop excusing his behavior.

I'd like to be the first to offer a conciliatory hand here and play
devil's advocate. It is just possible that Bill was referring to these...



After all, I've been called one of these on numerous occasions:




--


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[Bob Sullivan]

Isn't that speaking many languages?

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> Mark Roberts wrote:
>
>>Cotty wrote:
>>
>>>On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>>
IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>>>
>>>I agree totally, and so do my wives.
>>
>>If you hate lots of different groups is that poligotry?
>
> Excuse me, that should be "polygotry", shouldn't it?
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: OT: new camera

[William Robb]

--
From: "paul stenquist"
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

Using the "F word" to describe a gay male is equivalent to using the "N 
word" to describe a person of color. Both indicate intolerance, which is 
the definition of bigotry. Both are grossly unacceptable on any forum. Of 
course, when Robb erupts into obscenities and name calling, most list 
members consider it amusing. "Oh, that's Bill," they say. Well, it's time 
for Bill to act like an adult, and it's time for list members to stop 
excusing his behavior.


Paul, if you want to rein me in, then you also need to rein in people who 
would control what subjects are acceptable.
As an example, this little spat was instigated by a member who would have us 
desist with technical discussion because he has no use for it.
I have no use for pictures of little girls at play, will you stop posting 
pictures of your granddaughter to appease me?


My recent lack of activity on list is indicative of my ongoing realization 
that it's relevance to my photographic interests.

Perhaps it's time, after a dozen or so years, to say goodbye.

William Robb 



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.