Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
N's sensor is larger, of course. Seems to be the same price range as the Q. Pentax really needs to lower the price of the Q. I still maintain that at $400 it's worth consideration. On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: > By now everyone knows about Nikon's mirrorless camera entry, the Nikon 1. > Mike Johnston's take: http://goo.gl/uTSZe > > But I'm thinking that the general design (ignoring some specifics) echos the > Pentax Q system and could be seen as a market validation for the notion of a > very compact system with a small sensor. > > If nothing else, this will help keep companies making mount adapters busy > for years to come. > > -bmw > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On 21/09/2011 8:34 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: N's sensor is larger, of course. Seems to be the same price range as the Q. Pentax really needs to lower the price of the Q. I still maintain that at $400 it's worth consideration. I played with a Q for a while yesterday. It's really little, but it didn't draw me in the way I hoped it would. I think because it's too small, and the lens is too big. I like viewfinders, and I'd like the Q a lot more if it had one. I'd even settle for an EVF, as much as I loath them. Other than that, it seems like a nice little camera. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
> By now everyone knows about Nikon's mirrorless camera entry, the Nikon 1. > Mike Johnston's take: http://goo.gl/uTSZe > > But I'm thinking that the general design (ignoring some specifics) echos > the Pentax Q system and could be seen as a market validation for the > notion of a very compact system with a small sensor. > > If nothing else, this will help keep companies making mount adapters > busy for years to come. > > -bmw > It doesn't validate it to me. I'm not sure what camera companies are thinking, but it seems to be along the lines of 'hey, there's some sucker out there that will buy anything if we make it and market it right'. It's almost like they're deliberately attempting to insult the consumers intelligence. Maybe image quality (IQ) = intelligence quotient (IQ). :-) This zdnet article (link below) pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Q, and I have to say that if image quality is ANY consideration, I'd sooner carry a NEX or a 4/3 body over a tiny sensor sensor camera that is pretty much a P&S with interchangeable lenses. An inevitable comparison must be drawn to the Pentax Auto 110. It, the Q, and now the 1, are all cute little cameras that would likely only appeal to someone whos primary concern is obviously not image quality. The size difference between any of the mirrorless systems is not so great that one could argue that an even smaller, thinner, lighter body is a compelling factor for giving up massive amounts of sensor real estate. The sensor-size comparison link in the article helps it sink in. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/digitalcameras/pentax-q-smallest-compact-interchangeable-lens-camera-sports-biggest-price-tag/5084?tag=mantle_skin;content Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On 11-09-21 12:06 PM, Tom C wrote: By now everyone knows about Nikon's mirrorless camera entry, the Nikon 1. Mike Johnston's take: http://goo.gl/uTSZe But I'm thinking that the general design (ignoring some specifics) echos the Pentax Q system and could be seen as a market validation for the notion of a very compact system with a small sensor. If nothing else, this will help keep companies making mount adapters busy for years to come. -bmw It doesn't validate it to me. I'm not sure what camera companies are thinking, but it seems to be along the lines of 'hey, there's some sucker out there that will buy anything if we make it and market it right'. It's almost like they're deliberately attempting to insult the consumers intelligence. Maybe image quality (IQ) = intelligence quotient (IQ). :-) This zdnet article (link below) pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Q, and I have to say that if image quality is ANY consideration, I'd sooner carry a NEX or a 4/3 body over a tiny sensor sensor camera that is pretty much a P&S with interchangeable lenses. An inevitable comparison must be drawn to the Pentax Auto 110. It, the Q, and now the 1, are all cute little cameras that would likely only appeal to someone whos primary concern is obviously not image quality. The size difference between any of the mirrorless systems is not so great that one could argue that an even smaller, thinner, lighter body is a compelling factor for giving up massive amounts of sensor real estate. The sensor-size comparison link in the article helps it sink in. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/digitalcameras/pentax-q-smallest-compact-interchangeable-lens-camera-sports-biggest-price-tag/5084?tag=mantle_skin;content Tom C. Note that I said N's entry "validated _a_ market", but I didn't say it was a market of which I was a part. I suspect the validated market may be largely made up of young Japanese women. Pentax recently tested those waters with the candy coloured, Hello Kittied K-r/K-x's. Market researchers must have given a big thumbs up. I too am not going to be buying a Q or a V1. I'd be more likely to buy a 645D. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
William Robb wrote: I played with a Q for a while yesterday. It's really little, but it didn't draw me in the way I hoped it would. I think because it's too small, and the lens is too big. I like viewfinders, and I'd like the Q a lot more if it had one. I'd even settle for an EVF, as much as I loath them. Other than that, it seems like a nice little camera. I played with a V1 and a J1 today, at the Nikon 1 premiere in Italy. Nice camera, not so smooth to mount and unmount the lens (yes, it features the usual Nikon anti-everybody rotation), sign of not so refined machining (body and lens made in China). Proper size, in my opinion, not so different from my GF1. Nice to have the viewfinder, AF is quick and all the announced bells & whistles are there. Not that I am so interested in them. Small sensor? Yes, but 2.7x (Nikon 1) is not 5.5x (Pentax Q). IQ? Don't know. Odd I had no SD card with me. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 5:48 AM, Bruce Walker wrote: > By now everyone knows about Nikon's mirrorless camera entry, the Nikon 1. > Mike Johnston's take: http://goo.gl/uTSZe > > But I'm thinking that the general design (ignoring some specifics) echos the > Pentax Q system and could be seen as a market validation for the notion of a > very compact system with a small sensor. > > If nothing else, this will help keep companies making mount adapters busy > for years to come. It's very interesting to me that Pentax and now Nikon have chosen to go with small-sensor LIVE camera systems like this. It might be where the major sales can be obtained, but it limits further the ability to control focus zone unless extremely fast lenses are used, and they're not offering extremely fast lenses far as I can see. My interests are for larger sensor cameras, FourThirds format and up, and shared use of high-quality, manually operated lenses, so neither the Pentax Q or Nikon 1 systems are all that appealing to me. For me, at present, Ricoh's GXR and A12 Camera Mount is right on target. The Sony NEX 7 might be a contender too, but I am so enthused about what I'm seeing with the GXR and this camera unit I'll likely hang out with it at least until Leica's LIVE offering surfaces in Fall 2012. The cobwebs on my SLR kit are growing thick. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
> Note that I said N's entry "validated _a_ market", but I didn't say it > was a market of which I was a part. I suspect the validated market may > be largely made up of young Japanese women. Pentax recently tested those > waters with the candy coloured, Hello Kittied K-r/K-x's. Market > researchers must have given a big thumbs up. > > I too am not going to be buying a Q or a V1. I'd be more likely to buy a > 645D. > > -bmw > OK, I understand. :-) What I don't understand is the apparent assumption that a person in the market for this type of diminutive sensor size camera (implies image quality is not at the top of their priority list) would actually care that it has interchangeable lenses (implies image quality IS a high priority). Could it be this is a way of attracting current P&S owners to upgrade into the more lucrative mirrorless and DSLR markets, by offering a move up that is close in size to a P&S (at least with a standard wide-angle lens)? Tom -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On Sep 21, 2011, at 12:32 PM, Tom C wrote: >> Note that I said N's entry "validated _a_ market", but I didn't say it >> was a market of which I was a part. I suspect the validated market may >> be largely made up of young Japanese women. Pentax recently tested those >> waters with the candy coloured, Hello Kittied K-r/K-x's. Market >> researchers must have given a big thumbs up. >> >> I too am not going to be buying a Q or a V1. I'd be more likely to buy a >> 645D. Let me see what happens with 645D (or 645DmkII) prices and performance in 3-5 years time. Or, for that matter, my income. >> >> -bmw >> > > OK, I understand. :-) > > What I don't understand is the apparent assumption that a person in > the market for this type of diminutive sensor size camera (implies > image quality is not at the top of their priority list) would actually > care that it has interchangeable lenses (implies image quality IS a > high priority). I'd be interested in seeing side by side photos, in various conditions between the Q, the V1, and $1,000 SLRs circa 2005. I remember, sometime around 2006, poking around on the Canon website and thinking that their current full frame DSLRs looked like they had about the level of performance that I wanted and needed, and wondered when I'd be able to afford that level of performance. The K-5 answered that question. If these companies wait until sensor performance "justifies" interchangeable lenses at that sensor (and by extension camera body) size, then the market will already be staked out by early arrivals. > > Could it be this is a way of attracting current P&S owners to upgrade > into the more lucrative mirrorless and DSLR markets, by offering a > move up that is close in size to a P&S (at least with a standard > wide-angle lens)? Interchangeable lenses are fun, sensor improve. Will these cameras provide better performance than point and shoots? I'm sure they will, especially with good prime lenses rather than super zooms. Will people be able to keep those lenses and upgrade to a body with twice the performance in a couple of years? I'm sure of that. I wouldn't, however, bet Cotty's hat against an APS EVIL in the next year or two. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 08:48:46 -0400 Bruce Walker wrote: > But I'm thinking that the general design (ignoring some specifics) > echos the Pentax Q system and could be seen as a market validation > for the notion of a very compact system with a small sensor. something interesting i came across while browsing another 'other' forum... http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=39409774 if nothing else, it's at least another opinion... :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
She is writing a lot about the Q's image quality. Have she tried it? If not, I don't think she is much to rely on. A few comments I saw about the Nikon: "I handled the J1 today, and did a review for Adorama of the Q. To be honest Steve, the Q is light years ahead in usability, and feels as solid as a brick thanks to it’s construction. The J1 felt literally like a plastic toy in my hand and gave me zero confidence in handling it" http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/21/nikon-enters-the-game-with-the-new-mirrorless-j1-and-v1-cameras/ Stig Vidar Hovland Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] på vegne av Tom C [caka...@gmail.com] Sendt: 21. september 2011 18:06 Til: pdml@pdml.net Emne: Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry? This zdnet article (link below) pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Q http://www.zdnet.com/blog/digitalcameras/pentax-q-smallest-compact-interchangeable-lens-camera-sports-biggest-price-tag/5084?tag=mantle_skin;content Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Assuming I'm the below-mentioned Steve, I've heard that myself, at least about the quality of the Q. Honestly folks, the only validation of either camera will be sales. Even if we don't like these cameras, if they sell to any demographic they they are a success. I have no prediction abut sales, of course, but I've been surprise before. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 3:13 AM, SV Hovland wrote: > She is writing a lot about the Q's image quality. Have she tried it? If not, > I don't think she is much to rely on. > > A few comments I saw about the Nikon: > "I handled the J1 today, and did a review for Adorama of the Q. To be honest > Steve, the Q is light years ahead in usability, and feels as solid as a brick > thanks to it’s construction. The J1 felt literally like a plastic toy in my > hand and gave me zero confidence in handling it" > http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/21/nikon-enters-the-game-with-the-new-mirrorless-j1-and-v1-cameras/ > > > Stig Vidar Hovland > > > Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] på vegne av Tom C > [caka...@gmail.com] > Sendt: 21. september 2011 18:06 > Til: pdml@pdml.net > Emne: Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry? > > This zdnet article (link below) pretty much sums up my thoughts on the > Q > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/digitalcameras/pentax-q-smallest-compact-interchangeable-lens-camera-sports-biggest-price-tag/5084?tag=mantle_skin;content > > Tom C. > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Yep, but the Nikon copy cat is so ugly. The Pentax Q on the other hand is a beauty. Do hope the prices will drop, as these small sensor cameras are glorified P&S with polished in camera boosting softwares. The more entries the better - so welcome. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
> She is writing a lot about the Q's image quality. Have she tried it? If not, > I don't think she is much to rely on. > > A few comments I saw about the Nikon: > "I handled the J1 today, and did a review for Adorama of the Q. To be honest > Steve, the Q is light years ahead in usability, and feels as solid as a brick > thanks to it?s construction. The J1 felt literally like a plastic toy in my > hand and gave me zero confidence in handling it" > http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/09/21/nikon-enters-the-game-with-the-new-mirrorless-j1-and-v1-cameras/ > > > Stig Vidar Hovland > > > Fra: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] på vegne av Tom C > [caka...@gmail.com] > Sendt: 21. september 2011 18:06 > Til: pdml@pdml.net > Emne: Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry? > > This zdnet article (link below) pretty much sums up my thoughts on the > Q > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/digitalcameras/pentax-q-smallest-compact-interchangeable-lens-camera-sports-biggest-price-tag/5084?tag=mantle_skin;content > > Tom C. No doubt she hasn't, but one can infer to some degree from the specs. Really, just about any modern digital camera on the market has *acceptable* image quality within a certain set of parameters. My Canon S90 and G10 which have small sensors have excellent image quality for the shooting circumstances and purposes for which I use them. Compared to my NEX-5 their limitations easily become evident. I'm sure the Q will also produce excellent images within a defined set of parameters. The issue to now was how an $800 camera with such a small sensor would fair against similar 4/3 and APS-C offerings that have similar or even lower price points. The answer will no doubt be that it's a nice camera, but not alot of bang for the buck (at $800) compared to some of the competition. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
From: Tom C It doesn't validate it to me. I'm not sure what camera companies are thinking, but it seems to be along the lines of 'hey, there's some sucker out there that will buy anything if we make it and market it right'. It's almost like they're deliberately attempting to insult the consumers intelligence. Maybe image quality (IQ) = intelligence quotient (IQ). Their target market is young people. We're not. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
http://www.techzone360.com/news/2011/09/17/5785391.htm Essential part: Mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras, which are smaller and lighter than conventional single-lens reflex cameras, attract a wide range of consumers including young women. A super compact mirrorless camera was rolled out under the Pentax brand in late August. But it was rather designed for beginners with a small image sensor, which converts light captured through lens into an electronic signal. *** Equipped with a larger sensor, the new model*** will allow for a wide variety of photo styles, such as making out-of-focus areas in a shot much more blurry, the sources said. Darren Addy Kearney, Nebraska -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Darren Addy wrote: http://www.techzone360.com/news/2011/09/17/5785391.htm Essential part: Mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras, which are smaller and lighter than conventional single-lens reflex cameras, attract a wide range of consumers including young women. A super compact mirrorless camera was rolled out under the Pentax brand in late August. But it was rather designed for beginners with a small image sensor, which converts light captured through lens into an electronic signal. *** Equipped with a larger sensor, the new model*** will allow for a wide variety of photo styles, such as making out-of-focus areas in a shot much more blurry, the sources said. Ahhh, now THAT's exciting, isn't it... How could Pentax, who's known, nay REnowned for it's sharp optics, possibly assume folks will line up at their door to buy optics that take blurry seriously? Get out... keith Darren Addy Kearney, Nebraska -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On 9/22/2011 1:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: http://www.techzone360.com/news/2011/09/17/5785391.htm Essential part: Mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras, which are smaller and lighter than conventional single-lens reflex cameras, attract a wide range of consumers including young women. A super compact mirrorless camera was rolled out under the Pentax brand in late August. But it was rather designed for beginners with a small image sensor, which converts light captured through lens into an electronic signal. *** Equipped with a larger sensor, the new model*** will allow for a wide variety of photo styles, such as making out-of-focus areas in a shot much more blurry, the sources said. Pentax brand on par with Nikon Corp. and Canon Inc. in interchangeable-lens cameras, I hope that is "on par" as in market share and profitability, not "indistinguishable, with the same shortcomings and strengths". :-) Darren Addy Kearney, Nebraska -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (from dos4est) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
From: Larry Colen On 9/22/2011 1:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: http://www.techzone360.com/news/2011/09/17/5785391.htm Essential part: Mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras, which are smaller and lighter than conventional single-lens reflex cameras, attract a wide range of consumers including young women. A super compact mirrorless camera was rolled out under the Pentax brand in late August. But it was rather designed for beginners with a small image sensor, which converts light captured through lens into an electronic signal. *** Equipped with a larger sensor, the new model*** will allow for a wide variety of photo styles, such as making out-of-focus areas in a shot much more blurry, the sources said. Pentax brand on par with Nikon Corp. and Canon Inc. in interchangeable-lens cameras, I hope that is "on par" as in market share and profitability, not "indistinguishable, with the same shortcomings and strengths". Doesn't seem much different that the "plans" Hoya announced when they bought Pentax. I would interpret "on par" to mean "competitive". -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Maybe, but Hoya was clearly after the medical imaging division. Rioch is supposedly more serious about cameras because that's what they acquired. On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:10 AM, John Sessoms wrote: > From: Larry Colen >> >> On 9/22/2011 1:41 PM, Darren Addy wrote: >>> >>> http://www.techzone360.com/news/2011/09/17/5785391.htm >>> >>> Essential part: >>> Mirrorless interchangeable-lens cameras, which are smaller and lighter >>> than conventional single-lens reflex cameras, attract a wide range of >>> consumers including young women. >>> >>> A super compact mirrorless camera was rolled out under the Pentax >>> brand in late August. But it was rather designed for beginners with a >>> small image sensor, which converts light captured through lens into an >>> electronic signal. >>> >>> *** Equipped with a larger sensor, the new model*** will allow for a >>> wide variety of photo styles, such as making out-of-focus areas in a >>> shot much more blurry, the sources said. >> >> Pentax brand on par with Nikon Corp. and Canon Inc. in >> interchangeable-lens cameras, >> >> I hope that is "on par" as in market share and profitability, not >> "indistinguishable, with the same shortcomings and strengths". >> >> > > Doesn't seem much different that the "plans" Hoya announced when they bought > Pentax. > > I would interpret "on par" to mean "competitive". > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On 22/09/2011 10:10 AM, Tom C wrote: No doubt she hasn't, but one can infer to some degree from the specs. Really, just about any modern digital camera on the market has *acceptable* image quality within a certain set of parameters. My Canon S90 and G10 which have small sensors have excellent image quality for the shooting circumstances and purposes for which I use them. Compared to my NEX-5 their limitations easily become evident. I'm sure the Q will also produce excellent images within a defined set of parameters. I suspect the Q will be completely adequate in the good light conditions that most travel photos are made with. The issue to now was how an $800 camera with such a small sensor would fair against similar 4/3 and APS-C offerings that have similar or even lower price points. The answer will no doubt be that it's a nice camera, but not alot of bang for the buck (at $800) compared to some of the competition. Tom C. It really depends on how you base your decisions, doesn't it. the things that hold me back from the Q are it's size (it's too small for my hands) and my preference for viewfinders. If the Q had a next generation EVF along with it's next generation sensor, I would probably have bought one a few days ago. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On 22/09/2011 2:55 PM, Keith Whaley wrote: Ahhh, now THAT's exciting, isn't it... How could Pentax, who's known, nay REnowned for it's sharp optics, possibly assume folks will line up at their door to buy optics that take blurry seriously? Every company has to try to attract customers away from the competition. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Most of the "young people", I know doing serious shooting are using B&W film in vintage SLRs. On 9/22/2011 1:10 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: Tom C It doesn't validate it to me. I'm not sure what camera companies are thinking, but it seems to be along the lines of 'hey, there's some sucker out there that will buy anything if we make it and market it right'. It's almost like they're deliberately attempting to insult the consumers intelligence. Maybe image quality (IQ) = intelligence quotient (IQ). Their target market is young people. We're not. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:09 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: > Most of the "young people", I know doing serious shooting are using B&W film > in vintage SLRs. Do they ride their fixie bicycles to go shoot? :-) Seriously though, more power to them. I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different. If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On 9/24/2011 6:51 PM, Larry Colen wrote: On Sep 24, 2011, at 3:09 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: Most of the "young people", I know doing serious shooting are using B&W film in vintage SLRs. Do they ride their fixie bicycles to go shoot? No but the unserious ones shoot with their iPhones. :-) Seriously though, more power to them. I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different. If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than anything else. Rick --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: > I was one of > those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was > archaic and different. If decent digital cameras and > processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, > there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious > shooting. > > -- > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com > sent from i4est > > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > directly above and follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Not if you're left-handed ... On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: > Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than > anything else. > > Rick > > --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: > > > I was one of > > those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was > > archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and > > processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, > > there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious > > shooting. > > > > -- > > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com > > sent from i4est > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > > directly above and follow the directions. > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Don't they make left handed fountain pens? On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: > > Not if you're left-handed ... > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: >> Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than >> anything else. >> >> Rick >> >> --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: >> >> > I was one of >> > those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was >> > archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and >> > processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, >> > there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious >> > shooting. >> > >> > -- >> > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com >> > sent from i4est >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> > PDML@pdml.net >> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link >> > directly above and follow the directions. >> > >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
If I remember my penmanship lessons, from the dark ages when they still taught such things in school, you're not supposed to rest your hand on the paper, so that's no excuse. On 9/24/2011 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: Not if you're left-handed ... On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than anything else. Rick --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Don't lose heart! They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthily search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, Hebrew) that works that way. On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: Not if you're left-handed ... On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than anything else. Rick --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Leonardo da Vinci invented one, but it was lost to the world because he smudged the drawing. > > Don't they make left handed fountain pens? > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: > > > > Not if you're left-handed ... > > > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: > >> Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job > better than anything else. > >> > >> Rick > >> > >> --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: > >> > >> > I was one of > >> > those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was > >> > archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and > >> > processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, > >> > there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious > >> > shooting. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com > >> > sent from i4est > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> > PDML@pdml.net > >> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > >> > directly above and follow the directions. > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> PDML@pdml.net > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above > and follow the directions. > > > > > > -- > Steve Desjardins > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
They make left-handed nibs, but that doesn't address the fundamental problem that as you write, your hand moves across the paper. If you write with your left hand this means the hand holding the pen smears the freshly-applied and still wet ink. Ball-point pens (and fine point ones, at that) solve that problem. On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 08:46:58AM -0400, Steven Desjardins wrote: > Don't they make left handed fountain pens? > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: > > > > Not if you're left-handed ... > > > > On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: > >> Damn! ?I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. ?It does the job better > >> than anything else. > >> > >> Rick > >> > >> --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: > >> > >> > I was one of > >> > those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was > >> > archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and > >> > processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, > >> > there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious > >> > shooting. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com > >> > sent from i4est > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> > PDML@pdml.net > >> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > >> > directly above and follow the directions. > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> PDML@pdml.net > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >> follow the directions. > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > > > > -- > Steve Desjardins > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was slow, but it was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the teachers! On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: > Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, > Hebrew) that works that way. > > > On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: > >Not if you're left-handed ... > > > >On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: > >>Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better > >>than anything else. > >> > >>Rick > >> > >>--- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: > >> > >>>I was one of > >>>those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was > >>>archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and > >>>processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, > >>>there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious > >>>shooting. > >>> > >>>-- > >>>Larry Colen l...@red4est.com > >>>sent from i4est > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-- > >>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>>PDML@pdml.net > >>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>>to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > >>>directly above and follow the directions. > >>> > >>-- > >>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >>PDML@pdml.net > >>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >>to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > >>follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
So what did lefties do before ballpoints? On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM, John Francis wrote: > > I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was slow, but it > was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the teachers! > > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: >> Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, >> Hebrew) that works that way. >> >> >> On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: >> >Not if you're left-handed ... >> > >> >On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: >> >>Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better >> >>than anything else. >> >> >> >>Rick >> >> >> >>--- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: >> >> >> >>>I was one of >> >>>those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was >> >>>archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and >> >>>processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, >> >>>there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious >> >>>shooting. >> >>> >> >>>-- >> >>>Larry Colen l...@red4est.com >> >>>sent from i4est >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>-- >> >>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> >>>PDML@pdml.net >> >>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >>>to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link >> >>>directly above and follow the directions. >> >>> >> >>-- >> >>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> >>PDML@pdml.net >> >>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> >>to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> >>follow the directions. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Most of the young people I know are *NOT* doing "serious" shooting. The few who are, are using DSLRs or video. But most people who buy cameras are not "photographers". That seems particularly true of young people today. They don't care about the image itself, only that it's a picture of them having fun with their friends. From: "P. J. Alling" Most of the "young people", I know doing serious shooting are using B&W film in vintage SLRs. On 9/22/2011 1:10 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: Tom C It doesn't validate it to me. I'm not sure what camera companies are thinking, but it seems to be along the lines of 'hey, there's some sucker out there that will buy anything if we make it and market it right'. It's almost like they're deliberately attempting to insult the consumers intelligence. Maybe image quality (IQ) = intelligence quotient (IQ). Their target market is young people. We're not. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
I'm not sure about this. When i was young, there weren't that many folks shooting period because film and processing cost money. Now with cell phones and the internet there are an enormous number of images being taken. I'll bet there are at least as many, and I think more, young folks taking photography seriously, but they get lost in the facebook noise. Of course, the whole lomography thing really confuses what we think of as serious photography. On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 2:36 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > Most of the young people I know are *NOT* doing "serious" shooting. The few > who are, are using DSLRs or video. > > But most people who buy cameras are not "photographers". That seems > particularly true of young people today. They don't care about the image > itself, only that it's a picture of them having fun with their friends. > > > From: "P. J. Alling" > >> Most of the "young people", I know doing serious shooting are using B&W >> film in vintage SLRs. >> >> On 9/22/2011 1:10 PM, John Sessoms wrote: >>> >>> From: Tom C It doesn't validate it to me. I'm not sure what camera companies are thinking, but it seems to be along the lines of 'hey, there's some sucker out there that will buy anything if we make it and market it right'. It's almost like they're deliberately attempting to insult the consumers intelligence. Maybe image quality (IQ) = intelligence quotient (IQ). >>> >>> Their target market is young people. We're not. >>> > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Press down too hard and tear right through the paper. From: John Francis They make left-handed nibs, but that doesn't address the fundamental problem that as you write, your hand moves across the paper. If you write with your left hand this means the hand holding the pen smears the freshly-applied and still wet ink. Ball-point pens (and fine point ones, at that) solve that problem. On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 08:46:58AM -0400, Steven Desjardins wrote: Don't they make left handed fountain pens? On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: Not if you're left-handed ... On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Damn! ?I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. ?It does the job better than anything else. Rick --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
They were taught to write without curling the left hand around above the line. I know several lefties who use fountain pens. Rick --- On Sun, 9/25/11, Steven Desjardins wrote: > So what did lefties do before > ballpoints? > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM, John Francis > wrote: > > > > I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was > slow, but it > > was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the > teachers! > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker > wrote: > >> Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a > language (Arabic, > >> Hebrew) that works that way. > >> > >> > >> On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: > >> >Not if you're left-handed ... > >> > > >> >On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick > Womer wrote: > >> >>Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, > every day. It does the job better than anything else. > >> >> > >> >>Rick > >> >> > >> >>--- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen > wrote: > >> >> > >> >>>I was one of > >> >>>those kids that used a fountain pen, > just because it was > >> >>>archaic and different.? If decent > digital cameras and > >> >>>processing had been around when I lost > darkroom access, > >> >>>there wouldn't have been 25 year gap > in my serious > >> >>>shooting. > >> >>> > >> >>>-- > >> >>>Larry Colen l...@red4est.com > >> >>>sent from i4est > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>>-- > >> >>>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> >>>PDML@pdml.net > >> >>>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> >>>to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please > visit the link > >> >>>directly above and follow the > directions. > >> >>> > >> >>-- > >> >>PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> >>PDML@pdml.net > >> >>http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> >>to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit > the link directly above and follow the directions. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > >> PDML@pdml.net > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the > link directly above and follow the directions. > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > directly above and follow the directions. > > > > > > -- > Steve Desjardins > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > directly above and follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On Sep 25, 2011, at 5:53 AM, P. J. Alling wrote: > If I remember my penmanship lessons, from the dark ages when they still > taught such things in school, you're not supposed to rest your hand on the > paper, so that's no excuse. When I broke my left thumb "getting off" my motorcycle, or as I refer to it among people who practice aikido "impromptu ukemi practice", all of the writing I did for a while was with my left hand. I'm very right handed, and I found that it worked best if I just turned the paper upside down. It was easier for me to reverse "near and far" in my brain, than "in and out". It also had the advantage of my being able to see what I wrote. Using a fountain pen, the ink on the previous line would be drier than the ink on the previous word, as your hand wiped across it. > > On 9/24/2011 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: >> Not if you're left-handed ... >> >> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: >>> Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better >>> than anything else. With my handwriting, I find that keyboards work best. That is if I want to be able to read what I wrote sometime in the future. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
They were retrained by teachers to be "normal" righties, often with a stick. On 11-09-25 2:34 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote: So what did lefties do before ballpoints? On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM, John Francis wrote: I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was slow, but it was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the teachers! On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, Hebrew) that works that way. On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: Not if you're left-handed ... On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than anything else. Rick --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colenwrote: I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On Sep 25, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Steven Desjardins wrote: > I'm not sure about this. When i was young, there weren't that many > folks shooting period because film and processing cost money. Now > with cell phones and the internet there are an enormous number of > images being taken. I'll bet there are at least as many, and I think > more, young folks taking photography seriously, but they get lost in > the facebook noise. Of course, the whole lomography thing really > confuses what we think of as serious photography. I can think of a couple of ways to define serious photography. The first one would be someone that not only takes photographs, but who puts time and effort into improving their craft, so that they get better at taking the photographs that they intend to. I suspect that most people on this list define serious photography as someone who takes photographs that they happen to like. So for one person Adams did serious photography and HCB didn't, and another it's the other way around. Frankly, I think too many people have a big stick up their ass about what photos other people take and what they use to take them. I don't care whether Pentax makes some camera that I have no need for, or interest in, I care whether they stay in business and make the gear that I want to buy. If they take risks in designing and marketing new systems, it might hurt their bottom line, but if they don't take risks, there will be nothing to differentiate them and no reason for people to buy their cameras rather than those of the big name brands. And, while you may not think that point and shoots matter, I was recently talking to a high schooler who was interested in learning more about photography and he told me that he wanted Canon gear because when he used Canon point and shoots, they were easier for him to use than Nikon point and shoots. So, not only do people make choices on the entry level line based on the flagships, they make choices on the luxury line based on the economy models. I suspect that brand loyalty, or at least habit, goes deeper than any of us suspect, and a transition path from point and shoot all of the way up to 645D is important. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
From: Steven Desjardins So what did lefties do before ballpoints? Refused to testify. ;-D http://jewishcurrents.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/c10-1a-free-the-h10-demo.jpg -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 02:34:21PM -0400, Steven Desjardins wrote: > So what did lefties do before ballpoints? Kept quiet about it. My grandmother wasn't allowed to be a lefty - she was forced to eat, write, etc. with her right hand. That was the norm in her generation. I don't know if she would have allowed my mother to be left-handed, but the problem never arose. Being allowed to use a ballpoint pen rather than a fountain pen was pretty radical when I was at school. Fortunately for me most of the schools I attended were quite progressive in their views; some of the other schools in the area still insisted on "real" pens. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
My wife, who is a lefty, had to write with a fountain pen through her first few years in school. She said she'd come home ink stained, and that she sometimes had to start an assignment over after smearing it. Her older brother, on the other hand (no pun intended), was beat with a yardstick until he learned to write with his right hand. Paul On Sep 25, 2011, at 4:48 PM, John Francis wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 02:34:21PM -0400, Steven Desjardins wrote: >> So what did lefties do before ballpoints? > > Kept quiet about it. > > My grandmother wasn't allowed to be a lefty - she was forced to eat, > write, etc. with her right hand. > > That was the norm in her generation. I don't know if she would have > allowed my mother to be left-handed, but the problem never arose. > > Being allowed to use a ballpoint pen rather than a fountain pen > was pretty radical when I was at school. Fortunately for me most > of the schools I attended were quite progressive in their views; > some of the other schools in the area still insisted on "real" pens. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Used a pencil or got ink on the side of my left hand. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Steven Desjardins" Subject: Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry? So what did lefties do before ballpoints? On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM, John Francis wrote: I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was slow, but it was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the teachers! On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, Hebrew) that works that way. On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: >Not if you're left-handed ... > >On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: >>Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better >>than anything else. >> >>Rick >> >>--- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: >> >>>I was one of >>>those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was >>>archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and >>>processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, >>>there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious >>>shooting. >>> >>>-- >>>Larry Colen l...@red4est.com >>>sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
OK. I was a ballpoint baby so it was never an issue. At my Catholic school, no Inquisition for the lefties. On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Ken Waller wrote: > Used a pencil or got ink on the side of my left hand. > > Kenneth Waller > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller > > - Original Message - From: "Steven Desjardins" > Subject: Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry? > > > So what did lefties do before ballpoints? > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM, John Francis wrote: >> >> I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was slow, but it >> was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the teachers! >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: >>> >>> Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, >>> Hebrew) that works that way. >>> >>> >>> On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: >>> >Not if you're left-handed ... >>> > >>> >On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: >>> >>Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better >>> >> >>than anything else. >>> >> >>> >>Rick >>> >> >>> >>--- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: >>> >> >>> >>>I was one of >>> >>>those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was >>> >>>archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and >>> >>>processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, >>> >>>there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious >>> >>>shooting. >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Larry Colen l...@red4est.com >>> >>>sent from i4est > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
The big problem was in the instructions of paper placement. I clearly remember teachers telling us to turn the paper so the top of the paper is pointed toward the upper left corner of our desks. That's great if you're right-handed. Being left-handed and kind of a perverse little kid I turned mine so the top was pointed toward the upper right desk corner. That kept me from having to tie my hand in a knot to write and I didn't drag my hand through the fresh ink. Unfortunately nothing has ever worked to improve my penmanship... -p On 9/25/2011 2:26 PM, Rick Womer wrote: They were taught to write without curling the left hand around above the line. I know several lefties who use fountain pens. Rick --- On Sun, 9/25/11, Steven Desjardins wrote: So what did lefties do before ballpoints? On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM, John Francis wrote: I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was slow, but it was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the teachers! On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, Hebrew) that works that way. On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: Not if you're left-handed ... On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than anything else. Rick --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Steve Desjardins -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Being old doesn't seem so old now that I'm old. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
Also, the desks we had in my schools all were build for right handed writers - the tops were somewhat like the numeral 9 - you had to slide in to sit from the L H side and could rest your right hand on the leg of the nine - sure wasn't conducive to L H writing. Kenneth Waller http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller - Original Message - From: "Paul Sorenson" Subject: Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry? The big problem was in the instructions of paper placement. I clearly remember teachers telling us to turn the paper so the top of the paper is pointed toward the upper left corner of our desks. That's great if you're right-handed. Being left-handed and kind of a perverse little kid I turned mine so the top was pointed toward the upper right desk corner. That kept me from having to tie my hand in a knot to write and I didn't drag my hand through the fresh ink. Unfortunately nothing has ever worked to improve my penmanship... -p On 9/25/2011 2:26 PM, Rick Womer wrote: They were taught to write without curling the left hand around above the line. I know several lefties who use fountain pens. Rick --- On Sun, 9/25/11, Steven Desjardins wrote: So what did lefties do before ballpoints? On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM, John Francis wrote: I tried writing upside-down for a while. It was slow, but it was almost worth it to watch the double takes from the teachers! On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 09:25:27AM -0400, Bruce Walker wrote: Just learn to write right-to-left or switch to a language (Arabic, Hebrew) that works that way. On 11-09-24 10:54 PM, John Francis wrote: Not if you're left-handed ... On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 06:57:32PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: Damn! I =still= use a fountain pen, every day. It does the job better than anything else. Rick --- On Sat, 9/24/11, Larry Colen wrote: I was one of those kids that used a fountain pen, just because it was archaic and different.? If decent digital cameras and processing had been around when I lost darkroom access, there wouldn't have been 25 year gap in my serious shooting. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
From: "Ken Waller" Also, the desks we had in my schools all were build for right handed writers - the tops were somewhat like the numeral 9 - you had to slide in to sit from the L H side and could rest your right hand on the leg of the nine - sure wasn't conducive to L H writing. I remember those. Where I went to school they actually had a limited number of "Left-hand" desks available - just like the regular desks but shaped like a backwards number 9 - to accommodate left handed students. Seems like most of them were concentrated in the elementary school. I guess they figured that by the time they reached Junior High School the lefties had learned to cope with living in a right hand world. Didn't realize lefties were sinister until I got to the 9th grade. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
When did you realize they were also gauche? Dan Dan Matyola http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 4:17 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > From: "Ken Waller" >> >> Also, the desks we had in my schools all were build for right handed >> writers - the tops were somewhat like the numeral 9 - you had to slide in >> to >> sit from the L H side and could rest your right hand on the leg of the >> nine - sure wasn't conducive to L H writing. > > I remember those. Where I went to school they actually had a limited number > of "Left-hand" desks available - just like the regular desks but shaped like > a backwards number 9 - to accommodate left handed students. > > Seems like most of them were concentrated in the elementary school. I guess > they figured that by the time they reached Junior High School the lefties > had learned to cope with living in a right hand world. > > Didn't realize lefties were sinister until I got to the 9th grade. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Q design "validated" by Nikon's entry?
And somewhat lacking in dexterity ... I've heard them all before - far too many times. And that's just the obvious stuff. Even after discounting such engrained things as right-handed bias in cutlery, scissors, etc. Even something as simple as the high-end roller paper cutter in Kinkos is set up with a blade guard so that a right-handed user has no problems, but I have to push the cutter 'the wrong way" I do get some small amount of revenge, though. My wife is also left handed, so our house (and, in particular, the kitchen) is organised so that things are to be found in a convenient position for us (such as, for example, in a drawer that can be opened with the left hand for tools and accesories that will be wanted while empty-handed, but in one convenient for the right hand for tools that will most often be wanted when one hand will be busy). One other interesting point I noticed was when I was at university. The number of lefties on the advanced mathematics courses was much higher than would be expected from a random sampling. Apparently there is a similar spike on the fine arts side in music, although you wouldn't know that from me. On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 04:20:38PM -0400, Daniel J. Matyola wrote: > When did you realize they were also gauche? > > Dan > Dan Matyola > http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola > > > > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 4:17 PM, John Sessoms wrote: > > From: "Ken Waller" > >> > >> Also, the desks we had in my schools all were build for right handed > >> writers - the tops were somewhat like the numeral 9 - you had to slide in > >> to > >> sit from the L H side and could rest your right hand on the leg of the > >> nine - sure wasn't conducive to L H writing. > > > > I remember those. Where I went to school they actually had a limited number > > of "Left-hand" desks available - just like the regular desks but shaped like > > a backwards number 9 - to accommodate left handed students. > > > > Seems like most of them were concentrated in the elementary school. I guess > > they figured that by the time they reached Junior High School the lefties > > had learned to cope with living in a right hand world. > > > > Didn't realize lefties were sinister until I got to the 9th grade. > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
