Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 8/11/16, Chris Mitchell, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I had to type "I side with Cotty here" five times before it stuck
>on the screen.

Mark!

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Chris Mitchell]

On 7 Nov 2016 22:35, "Steve Cottrell"  wrote:
>
> On 6/11/16, Chris Mitchell, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
> >I side with Cotty here - X20 is a good option.
> >I must put one on my Christmas list...
>
> Why Christopher I do believe this is a first ;-)

I know. I had to type "I side with Cotty here" five times before it stuck
on the screen.

>
> You been playing with Bob's ?

I'm far too gentlemanly to confirm or deny that.

Christopher (who only gets called that when he's being told off)
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Eric Weir]

> On Nov 7, 2016, at 9:17 PM, Bill  wrote:
> 
> It's about the same size as a Pentax ME-Super. A little bigger than that, not 
> as big as an LX. They are not a big camera. Couple it with a 35mm f/2 WR and 
> you have a very compact high quality camera

That’s the combo I’m lusting for. 

Meantime I get by with a Fuji XQI. Only one dial for shooting mode. Everything 
else controlled from buttons on the back, which are programmable, and the 
menus. No viewfinder, which I’ve gotten used to—except in bright sun. But I get 
astounding images—to me anyway—with it. 

Here's one from the state cross country championship here last weekend. 
 
The X-Q1 was my “wide angle” lens for this occasion. I shot the races with my 
K-5 and a DA 4-5.6/50-200 ED WR. Here’s one of my favorites with that combo 
.

FWIW, the team I’ve been following were state champs in their division for the 
third year running. All the kids are refugees. (Yes, I know, I’ve gone 
off-topic here.)

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eew...@bellsouth.net 

(I)t is important that awake people be awake... the darkness around us is deep.

- William Stafford


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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/11/16, Bill, discombobulated, unleashed:

>More size hints:
>
>http://users.accesscomm.ca/wrphoto/addons/xt-1pron1.html

That is horny!

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/11/16, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I think the message there is buy an MX...

Hr!! :-)


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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:

> I've been
>finding that my needs for the elusive perfect camera aren't being met,

MARK

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Larry Colen]

Bruce Walker wrote:



As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you recommend?


Depending on your definition of pocketable, the K-r with a DA40/2.8 is 
surprisingly trim and capable. By pocketable, it will easily fit in 
cargo pockets or jacket pockets.


In that realm I recently bought an Olympus TG-4. On paper it looked very 
nice, small, waterproof, capable of doing both stills and video, and 
could produce raw files.


Unfortunately the video shut off after 21 minutes, rendering it useless 
for the things I wanted video for, and despite the zoom being f/2 at the 
wide end, it really rather sucked in even moderately low light. I 
returned it within a week.


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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bill]

On 11/7/2016 5:21 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 7/11/16, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:


Finally, a quick shout out for another camera that will easily satisfy
your requirements


Size hints





More size hints:

http://users.accesscomm.ca/wrphoto/addons/xt-1pron1.html

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bill]

On 11/7/2016 12:51 PM, Bruce Walker wrote:

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Bill  wrote:

On 11/5/2016 8:17 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:


So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
film camera.


If you have big pockets, the Fuji T-T2 with the 35mm lens would be an
excellent choice.


Pocket-wise, it's about the same size as my K-3, a little thinner I
guess. My clothing won't accommodate either. :)



It's about the same size as a Pentax ME-Super. A little bigger than 
that, not as big as an LX. They are not a big camera. Couple it with a 
35mm f/2 WR and you have a very compact high quality camera



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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[P.J. Alling]

That seems to be the problem, what you gain with the tiny body you lose 
with the adapter, or vice versa.


On 11/7/2016 6:21 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 7/11/16, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:


Finally, a quick shout out for another camera that will easily satisfy
your requirements

Size hints






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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Nov 7, 2016, at 11:46 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> 
> On 7 Nov 2016, at 19:04, Bruce Walker  > wrote:
>> 
>>> What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. 
>>> He should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.
>> 
>> You know something crazy? I see that you are right. The Leica is just
>> about perfect for what I'm looking for, size and price aside.
>> 
> I suspect the target market for the Fujis is largely made up of Leica 
> wannabes and Olympus Trip has-beens. Problem is, they don't fully deliver on 
> their promise. At least, not to me. The key thing about the Leicas is 
> simplicity; not getting in the way, as Godfrey puts it.

There is no digital camera simpler and more akin to the film camera experience 
than a Leica M-D (typ 262). The only settings it has other than ISO, focus, 
shutter time, and aperture are for the clock. There's no LCD … and it feels 
substantively smaller than any of the other digital Ms without it. It captures 
only raw files so just like with film, everything past the capture is done in 
processing and rendering the photo. The M-D gets out of the way instantly, it 
returns you to a time before digital, before chimping, before user settings and 
multi-mode this and that. Yet brings you all the advantages of a digital sensor 
without the disadvantages. 

I absolutely adore this camera. 

My bag has in it the M-D, a 1972 Summilux 35 that's been coded so the camera 
recognizes it, a Summarit-M 75mm f/2.4. Perfect setup for 99% of my shooting. 
Sometimes I swap those two lenses out for a Color Skopar 28/3.5 and a Color 
Skopar 50/2.5. These work well asides from color shading issues; I render only 
to B with them. There's plenty more space in the bag … it's a Tenba DNA8 … 
and it could easily fit the camera and all four of those lenses, plus an iPad 
mini. One charge on the battery is good for 500-700 exposures; a 16G card is 
good for around 800 exposures. Good match. And the default rendering of the DNG 
files in Lightroom has that beautiful feel of a Leica film camera exposure.

If you want a digital camera that gives you as close to the film experience as 
you can get, this is the one. Yes, it costs a bit; no, it won't fit in your 
pocket. It's worth it. 

G
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bruce Walker]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 6:19 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> On 7/11/16, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>Micro Four Thirds, so a large range of lenses available - including some
>>manual Voigtlander f/0.95 lenses (1 in your range) - as well as a number
>>of adapters for legacy lenses like Pentax.
>
> Voila
>
> 

This is really appealing. :)

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bruce Walker]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> On 5/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
>>film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
>>buttons and dials for the important most-used functions.
>
> If you're considering Leicas then, I might have gotten the wrong end of
> the stick.

No Cotty, you had the right end of the stick. But it's a forked stick. :)


> I assumed you were looking for something genuinely pocketable. My
> definition of pocketable is the rear pocket on a pair of Levis. YMMV.

I am looking for something pocketable, it's just that since I've been
finding that my needs for the elusive perfect camera aren't being met,
I'm expanding the search radius and considering alternatives.

Pocketable for me is actually bigger than your Levis back pocket
standard. A coat pocket, or a small fanny pack in the summer.


> Finally, a quick shout out for another camera that will easily satisfy
> your requirements - although (like the Leica) will not fit in a pair of
> Levis with a lens attached) - the Olympus Pen F.

Now this is a worthy beastie for consideration. Thank you!


> My advice: buy an X20 for under 400 bucks as you mentioned. If you can't
> get on with it, eBay it back into the system and put some wedge into a
> Leica system. If you've got the funds, go for it.

Sound advice, Cotty. Still the most likely outcome.

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bob W-PDML]

On 7 Nov 2016, at 23:22, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 7/11/16, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> Finally, a quick shout out for another camera that will easily satisfy
>> your requirements
> 
> Size hints
> 
> 

I think the message there is buy an MX...

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/11/16, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Finally, a quick shout out for another camera that will easily satisfy
>your requirements

Size hints



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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 7/11/16, Steve Cottrell, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Micro Four Thirds, so a large range of lenses available - including some
>manual Voigtlander f/0.95 lenses (1 in your range) - as well as a number
>of adapters for legacy lenses like Pentax.

Voila



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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:

>So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
>film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
>buttons and dials for the important most-used functions.

If you're considering Leicas then, I might have gotten the wrong end of
the stick.

I assumed you were looking for something genuinely pocketable. My
definition of pocketable is the rear pocket on a pair of Levis. YMMV.

I can squeeze the X20 (with it's easily understood and used UI - by me
at any rate) into my Levis at a push. I wouldn't sit down though.

It will easily fit in any jacket or coat pocket, lens retracted and
powered down.

I dare say a Leica will as well - but I defy you to get a Leica M Typ
26anything into a pair of Levis - with lens attached

Finally, a quick shout out for another camera that will easily satisfy
your requirements - although (like the Leica) will not fit in a pair of
Levis with a lens attached) - the Olympus Pen F.

Micro Four Thirds, so a large range of lenses available - including some
manual Voigtlander f/0.95 lenses (1 in your range) - as well as a number
of adapters for legacy lenses like Pentax.

My entire camera bag now consists of a Fuji X20 (zoom range equiv of
28-112), Olympus Pen F, Samyang 12/2 (24 equiv), Pentax 24/2.8 (48
equiv), Pentax 50/1.4 (100 equiv) and Tokina AT-X 90/2.5 macro (180 equiv).

That's all I've got. I have plans to replace some of the lenses with
Voigtlanders eventually, but I love the simplicity of this kit, and both
cameras tick the bill regarding old school feel. The Oly is an extremely
capable camera with large pixel count and 5 axis IS etc - so quite a
machine. Again, if `I have to take one in a pocket, it's the Fuji X20
every time.

My advice: buy an X20 for under 400 bucks as you mentioned. If you can't
get on with it, eBay it back into the system and put some wedge into a
Leica system. If you've got the funds, go for it.

I find the Leicas simply too big. And the X-Pro 1 and 2. Too big for
what I wanted. LOVE the X100T but restricted by lens for what I wanted to do.

That's why I got the Olympus.

Cheers!

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 6/11/16, Bob W-PDML, discombobulated, unleashed:

>These two Fujis are not, in my opinion, simple to use. The menus and
>user interface are a mess. It's all to easy to change settings
>inadvertently, without any warning, and I find it really confusing and
>difficult to restore them to what I like. They are also not good for
>manual focusing because although you can do it, there is no indication
>in the optical finder of what you're focused on. On the X20 you can do
>focus peaking in the optical finder, but to get it you have to do
>without other settings (or absence of) which I find useful.

Interesting.

My experience is slightly different. There are 2 user settings on the
main top dial (C1 and C2) and global camera settings can be concreted to
these to settings. Hence, my C1 setting is mono, high ISO, high
contrast, high everything for that gritty street look. C2 is mono, low
ISO, high quality for landscapes and suchlike. For colour I just turn to
either Program or Aperture priority

The menus are quite easy to understand and cycle through - but that said
I am used to the Fuji way - and now the Oly way as well, which isn't
hugely different. What I like to do is customise the external buttons
and dials as much as possible so I can quickly switch between settings
without having to scroll thru menus


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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 6/11/16, Chris Mitchell, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I side with Cotty here - X20 is a good option.
>I must put one on my Christmas list...

Why Christopher I do believe this is a first ;-)

You been playing with Bob's ?

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bob W-PDML]

On 7 Nov 2016, at 19:04, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> 
>> What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. 
>> He should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.
> 
> You know something crazy? I see that you are right. The Leica is just
> about perfect for what I'm looking for, size and price aside.
> 
I suspect the target market for the Fujis is largely made up of Leica wannabes 
and Olympus Trip has-beens. Problem is, they don't fully deliver on their 
promise. At least, not to me. The key thing about the Leicas is simplicity; not 
getting in the way, as Godfrey puts it.

I think you'd find that size is not much of an issue with the Leica Ms once you 
start to use them. I keep mine on a leather wrist strap, and I normally have a 
small shoulder bag for one or two extra lenses, a light meter and other 
paraphernalia. You could easily keep it all in a combat jacket if that happens 
to be your thing. You could also buy an old (or indeed new) collapsible Elmar 
lens to make it even smaller when not in use.

I find that I carry no more with the M than I would with one of the Fujis, 
since I keep them on a wrist strap too, and still need a small bag to keep my 
wallet, phone and glasses, and light meter if I take one. It's principally the 
glasses case that causes this, as my phone goes in my wallet anyway, and that 
could go in a pocket.

B

> I gently approached this concept with my wife this morning during our
> dog walk. I said, "it's a bit pricey." She said, "oh, what, like 600
> dollars?". I admitted that no, it's actually six thousand dollars.
> 
> She did not hit me with a blunt object, so I took that as a positive
> sign. I haven't mentioned lenses yet.
> 
> 


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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Boris Liberman]

Bruce, a friend of mine has one. I handled it briefly few times. It is
of course on the smallish size, but it has general gestalt of
rangefinder camera, as I see it. Here I have to admit that I only shot
one roll of film with Russian Leica clone, so I don't have that much
of a expertise as to how the rangefinder camera gotta handle. Yet, it
is a nice little camera with big sensor (relative to its size and
weight) and it is worth considering.



On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:09 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> It was not, until just now. :) Thanks, Boris, under consideration.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
>> Was Panasonic LX100 mentioned?

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bruce Walker]

It was not, until just now. :) Thanks, Boris, under consideration.


On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> Was Panasonic LX100 mentioned?
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, it's 35mm equivalent. I have a Fuji X100, which was the first 
>>> generation of that series. It's a nice camera, but my X20 sees far more 
>>> use, and I may sell the X100 to fund my French bicycle habit.
>>>
>>> These two Fujis are not, in my opinion, simple to use. The menus and user 
>>> interface are a mess. It's all to easy to change settings inadvertently, 
>>> without any warning, and I find it really confusing and difficult to 
>>> restore them to what I like. They are also not good for manual focusing 
>>> because although you can do it, there is no indication in the optical 
>>> finder of what you're focused on. On the X20 you can do focus peaking in 
>>> the optical finder, but to get it you have to do without other settings (or 
>>> absence of) which I find useful.
>>>
>>> Overall it is compromised in my opinion by its excessive complexity and its 
>>> attempt to do everything. They need me to tell them what it should be like.
>>>
>>> You can shoot some lovely black and white though, when you set it up right.
>>
>> I am both heartened and disheartened to hear this. I really dislike a
>> cranky UI, especially one that encourages random changes that are hard
>> to restore.
>>
>>
>>> What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. 
>>> He should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.
>>
>> You know something crazy? I see that you are right. The Leica is just
>> about perfect for what I'm looking for, size and price aside.
>>
>> I gently approached this concept with my wife this morning during our
>> dog walk. I said, "it's a bit pricey." She said, "oh, what, like 600
>> dollars?". I admitted that no, it's actually six thousand dollars.
>>
>> She did not hit me with a blunt object, so I took that as a positive
>> sign. I haven't mentioned lenses yet.
>>
>> --
>> -bmw
>>
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>
>
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Boris Liberman]

Was Panasonic LX100 mentioned?

On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it's 35mm equivalent. I have a Fuji X100, which was the first 
>> generation of that series. It's a nice camera, but my X20 sees far more use, 
>> and I may sell the X100 to fund my French bicycle habit.
>>
>> These two Fujis are not, in my opinion, simple to use. The menus and user 
>> interface are a mess. It's all to easy to change settings inadvertently, 
>> without any warning, and I find it really confusing and difficult to restore 
>> them to what I like. They are also not good for manual focusing because 
>> although you can do it, there is no indication in the optical finder of what 
>> you're focused on. On the X20 you can do focus peaking in the optical 
>> finder, but to get it you have to do without other settings (or absence of) 
>> which I find useful.
>>
>> Overall it is compromised in my opinion by its excessive complexity and its 
>> attempt to do everything. They need me to tell them what it should be like.
>>
>> You can shoot some lovely black and white though, when you set it up right.
>
> I am both heartened and disheartened to hear this. I really dislike a
> cranky UI, especially one that encourages random changes that are hard
> to restore.
>
>
>> What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. 
>> He should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.
>
> You know something crazy? I see that you are right. The Leica is just
> about perfect for what I'm looking for, size and price aside.
>
> I gently approached this concept with my wife this morning during our
> dog walk. I said, "it's a bit pricey." She said, "oh, what, like 600
> dollars?". I admitted that no, it's actually six thousand dollars.
>
> She did not hit me with a blunt object, so I took that as a positive
> sign. I haven't mentioned lenses yet.
>
> --
> -bmw
>
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bruce Walker]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
>
> Yes, it's 35mm equivalent. I have a Fuji X100, which was the first generation 
> of that series. It's a nice camera, but my X20 sees far more use, and I may 
> sell the X100 to fund my French bicycle habit.
>
> These two Fujis are not, in my opinion, simple to use. The menus and user 
> interface are a mess. It's all to easy to change settings inadvertently, 
> without any warning, and I find it really confusing and difficult to restore 
> them to what I like. They are also not good for manual focusing because 
> although you can do it, there is no indication in the optical finder of what 
> you're focused on. On the X20 you can do focus peaking in the optical finder, 
> but to get it you have to do without other settings (or absence of) which I 
> find useful.
>
> Overall it is compromised in my opinion by its excessive complexity and its 
> attempt to do everything. They need me to tell them what it should be like.
>
> You can shoot some lovely black and white though, when you set it up right.

I am both heartened and disheartened to hear this. I really dislike a
cranky UI, especially one that encourages random changes that are hard
to restore.


> What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. 
> He should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.

You know something crazy? I see that you are right. The Leica is just
about perfect for what I'm looking for, size and price aside.

I gently approached this concept with my wife this morning during our
dog walk. I said, "it's a bit pricey." She said, "oh, what, like 600
dollars?". I admitted that no, it's actually six thousand dollars.

She did not hit me with a blunt object, so I took that as a positive
sign. I haven't mentioned lenses yet.

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bruce Walker]

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Bill  wrote:
> On 11/5/2016 8:17 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:
>>
>> So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
>> film camera.
>
> If you have big pockets, the Fuji T-T2 with the 35mm lens would be an
> excellent choice.

Pocket-wise, it's about the same size as my K-3, a little thinner I
guess. My clothing won't accommodate either. :)

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Yup. My 'pocketable' is the M-D with 35, 50, or 75 mm lens. Simple and easy to 
use. 

G

> On Nov 6, 2016, at 8:21 AM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> 
> What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. 
> He should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Stan Halpin]

Following on with Bob's Leica thought...
I recently convinced Meg to give up her old D-Lux 3 in favor of the Type 109 
Leica (which I believe would have been a D-Lux 7 if they hadn't changed their 
naming system.) EVF which turns on automagically when it nears your eye. RAW 
option. 24-90 equivalent lens. Solid build. WiFi. Packaged with a small 
removable flash. Video option. And takes good pictures.

Stan
Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 6, 2016, at 5:21 PM, Bob W-PDML  wrote:
> 
> Yes, it's 35mm equivalent. I have a Fuji X100, which was the first generation 
> of that series. It's a nice camera, but my X20 sees far more use, and I may 
> sell the X100 to fund my French bicycle habit.
> 
> These two Fujis are not, in my opinion, simple to use. The menus and user 
> interface are a mess. It's all to easy to change settings inadvertently, 
> without any warning, and I find it really confusing and difficult to restore 
> them to what I like. They are also not good for manual focusing because 
> although you can do it, there is no indication in the optical finder of what 
> you're focused on. On the X20 you can do focus peaking in the optical finder, 
> but to get it you have to do without other settings (or absence of) which I 
> find useful.
> 
> Overall it is compromised in my opinion by its excessive complexity and its 
> attempt to do everything. They need me to tell them what it should be like.
> 
> You can shoot some lovely black and white though, when you set it up right.
> 
> What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. 
> He should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.
> 
> B
> 
>> On 6 Nov 2016, at 16:03, Chris Mitchell  wrote:
>> 
>> Doesn't the X100T have a 35mm equivalent lens? It's 23mm on APS-C. So
>> still hobbled to that. I side with Cotty here - X20 is a good option.
>> I must put one on my Christmas list...
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>>> On 6 November 2016 at 15:07, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>>> Great suggestions. One of the older Fuji's is probably what I'll get.
>>> I see that the X20 can be had used for below $400 US.
>>> 
>>> I'd have been interested in the current X70 model if they hadn't
>>> removed the viewfinder. Once again, no consideration for the millions
>>> of reading glasses challenged folks.
>>> 
>>> And the X100T would sure be cool if it wasn't hobbled with a 28mm equiv 
>>> lens.
>>> 
>>> Thanks everybody!
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
 On 5/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:
 
> So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
> film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
> buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
> reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
> by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
> see it in the flesh and it convinces me.
> 
> I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
> FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
> lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.
> 
> As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you 
> recommend?
 
 Easy.
 
 Fuji X20.
 
 X10 at a push if you want something cheap, the 20 is better.
 
 The 30 has no optical viewfinder, preferring instead an EVF. I have no
 experience with it. Ask Dave.
 
 If I'm grabbing a single camera to shove in a jacket pocket and nothing
 else, it's always the X20.
 
 --
 
 
 Cheers,
 Cotty
 
 
 ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
 ||  (O)  |Web Video Production
 --
 _
 
 
 
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 follow the directions.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bob W-PDML]

Yes, it's 35mm equivalent. I have a Fuji X100, which was the first generation 
of that series. It's a nice camera, but my X20 sees far more use, and I may 
sell the X100 to fund my French bicycle habit.

These two Fujis are not, in my opinion, simple to use. The menus and user 
interface are a mess. It's all to easy to change settings inadvertently, 
without any warning, and I find it really confusing and difficult to restore 
them to what I like. They are also not good for manual focusing because 
although you can do it, there is no indication in the optical finder of what 
you're focused on. On the X20 you can do focus peaking in the optical finder, 
but to get it you have to do without other settings (or absence of) which I 
find useful.

Overall it is compromised in my opinion by its excessive complexity and its 
attempt to do everything. They need me to tell them what it should be like.

You can shoot some lovely black and white though, when you set it up right.

What Bruce really wants, deep in his heart of hearts, is a Leica M typ 262. He 
should bite the bullet, and go out and buy one. And some lenses too.

B

> On 6 Nov 2016, at 16:03, Chris Mitchell  wrote:
> 
> Doesn't the X100T have a 35mm equivalent lens? It's 23mm on APS-C. So
> still hobbled to that. I side with Cotty here - X20 is a good option.
> I must put one on my Christmas list...
> 
> Chris
> 
>> On 6 November 2016 at 15:07, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>> Great suggestions. One of the older Fuji's is probably what I'll get.
>> I see that the X20 can be had used for below $400 US.
>> 
>> I'd have been interested in the current X70 model if they hadn't
>> removed the viewfinder. Once again, no consideration for the millions
>> of reading glasses challenged folks.
>> 
>> And the X100T would sure be cool if it wasn't hobbled with a 28mm equiv lens.
>> 
>> Thanks everybody!
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
>>> On 5/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>> 
 So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
 film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
 buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
 reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
 by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
 see it in the flesh and it convinces me.
 
 I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
 FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
 lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.
 
 As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you recommend?
>>> 
>>> Easy.
>>> 
>>> Fuji X20.
>>> 
>>> X10 at a push if you want something cheap, the 20 is better.
>>> 
>>> The 30 has no optical viewfinder, preferring instead an EVF. I have no
>>> experience with it. Ask Dave.
>>> 
>>> If I'm grabbing a single camera to shove in a jacket pocket and nothing
>>> else, it's always the X20.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>>  Cotty
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
>>> ||  (O)  |Web Video Production
>>> --
>>> _
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> follow the directions.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> -bmw
>> 
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Chris Mitchell]

Doesn't the X100T have a 35mm equivalent lens? It's 23mm on APS-C. So
still hobbled to that. I side with Cotty here - X20 is a good option.
I must put one on my Christmas list...

Chris

On 6 November 2016 at 15:07, Bruce Walker  wrote:
> Great suggestions. One of the older Fuji's is probably what I'll get.
> I see that the X20 can be had used for below $400 US.
>
> I'd have been interested in the current X70 model if they hadn't
> removed the viewfinder. Once again, no consideration for the millions
> of reading glasses challenged folks.
>
> And the X100T would sure be cool if it wasn't hobbled with a 28mm equiv lens.
>
> Thanks everybody!
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
>> On 5/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>
>>>So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
>>>film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
>>>buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
>>>reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
>>>by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
>>>see it in the flesh and it convinces me.
>>>
>>>I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
>>>FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
>>>lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.
>>>
>>>As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you recommend?
>>
>> Easy.
>>
>> Fuji X20.
>>
>> X10 at a push if you want something cheap, the 20 is better.
>>
>> The 30 has no optical viewfinder, preferring instead an EVF. I have no
>> experience with it. Ask Dave.
>>
>> If I'm grabbing a single camera to shove in a jacket pocket and nothing
>> else, it's always the X20.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>   Cotty
>>
>>
>> ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
>> ||  (O)  |Web Video Production
>> --
>> _
>>
>>
>>
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>> follow the directions.
>
>
>
> --
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bruce Walker]

Great suggestions. One of the older Fuji's is probably what I'll get.
I see that the X20 can be had used for below $400 US.

I'd have been interested in the current X70 model if they hadn't
removed the viewfinder. Once again, no consideration for the millions
of reading glasses challenged folks.

And the X100T would sure be cool if it wasn't hobbled with a 28mm equiv lens.

Thanks everybody!


On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> On 5/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
>>film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
>>buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
>>reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
>>by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
>>see it in the flesh and it convinces me.
>>
>>I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
>>FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
>>lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.
>>
>>As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you recommend?
>
> Easy.
>
> Fuji X20.
>
> X10 at a push if you want something cheap, the 20 is better.
>
> The 30 has no optical viewfinder, preferring instead an EVF. I have no
> experience with it. Ask Dave.
>
> If I'm grabbing a single camera to shove in a jacket pocket and nothing
> else, it's always the X20.
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
> ||  (O)  |Web Video Production
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> _
>
>
>
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Ken Waller]

That's what I loved about the old Optio:  it was certainly "pocketable,"
and took decent images for its time and price.


I just sold my Optio S at a camera sell/swap meet. It was still going strong 
after many years but I hadn't used it in a while after getting a less basic, 
more versatile Nikon Coolpix 7100, its pocketable if you have somewhat 
bigger pockets.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Daniel J. Matyola" <danmaty...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?



That's what I loved about the old Optio:  it was certainly "pocketable,"
and took decent images for its time and price.

It finally died about a year ago.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Bill <anotherdrunken...@gmail.com> wrote:


On 11/5/2016 8:17 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:


Apologies for the word filmic, but I wanted a snappy subject. I am
finally tired of trying to get any decent shots with a smartphone
which, despite being always available, nearly always disappoints me.

So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
see it in the flesh and it convinces me.

I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.

As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you
recommend?



If you have big pockets, the Fuji T-T2 with the 35mm lens would be an
excellent choice.



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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Daniel J. Matyola]

That's what I loved about the old Optio:  it was certainly "pocketable,"
and took decent images for its time and price.

It finally died about a year ago.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Bill  wrote:

> On 11/5/2016 8:17 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:
>
>> Apologies for the word filmic, but I wanted a snappy subject. I am
>> finally tired of trying to get any decent shots with a smartphone
>> which, despite being always available, nearly always disappoints me.
>>
>> So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
>> film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
>> buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
>> reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
>> by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
>> see it in the flesh and it convinces me.
>>
>> I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
>> FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
>> lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.
>>
>> As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you
>> recommend?
>>
>>
> If you have big pockets, the Fuji T-T2 with the 35mm lens would be an
> excellent choice.
>
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/11/16, P.J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed:

>  I have 
>played briefly with a Fujifilm XPro1 and the viewfinder is lovely so I'm 
>assuming the viewfinders on the X10 and X20 are as well.

The VF in the X10 and X20 is an optical design, but is basic. The
difference between the two is there is an overlay of info in the X20,
nothing in the X10. The VF zooms with the lens to give a good
approximation of the shot (80 percent coverage IIRC), and obviously
there is the rear LCD for precise work. The rear LCD has a proximity
sensor so it can be set to turn off when the face gets near.

The whole camera is built out of solid unobtainium. You can easily use
it to knock in nails.

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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 5/11/16, Bruce Walker, discombobulated, unleashed:

>So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
>film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
>buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
>reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
>by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
>see it in the flesh and it convinces me.
>
>I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
>FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
>lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.
>
>As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you recommend?

Easy.

Fuji X20.

X10 at a push if you want something cheap, the 20 is better.

The 30 has no optical viewfinder, preferring instead an EVF. I have no
experience with it. Ask Dave.

If I'm grabbing a single camera to shove in a jacket pocket and nothing
else, it's always the X20.

-- 


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  Cotty


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||  (O)  |Web Video Production
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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[P.J. Alling]

I've handled a Canon G12 felt solid like a 1970's compact fixed lens RF 
camera.  I expect any in the series would have the same feel and 
capabilities.  They were supposed to have very good image quality.  The 
optical viewfinder made that on a Kodak Instamatic 100 look good 
unfortunately.  The latest replacement in the series had dropped the 
viewfinder entirely so don't go there if that's important to you.


Then there's also the Fujifilm X10 and X20 with the lovely hybrid 
viewfinder.  I haven't actually tried out one of those but supposedly 
Fuji has seriously improved the usability with firmware updates. The X30 
seems to have done away with the hybrid VF and only has a EVF.  I have 
played briefly with a Fujifilm XPro1 and the viewfinder is lovely so I'm 
assuming the viewfinders on the X10 and X20 are as well.


If it were me looking for something like this I'd look at a Fujifilm 
X20, but I've got a lovely Kodak Retina IIIc which is an old school RF 
camera, so I'd probably just slip that in my pocket and be the envy of 
hipsters everywhere, (are hipsters still a thing?)


On 11/5/2016 10:17 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:

Apologies for the word filmic, but I wanted a snappy subject. I am
finally tired of trying to get any decent shots with a smartphone
which, despite being always available, nearly always disappoints me.

So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
see it in the flesh and it convinces me.

I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.

As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you recommend?




--
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve 
immortality through not dying.
-- Woody Allen


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Re: Thoughts: pocketable compact with filmic ergonomics?

[Bill]

On 11/5/2016 8:17 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:

Apologies for the word filmic, but I wanted a snappy subject. I am
finally tired of trying to get any decent shots with a smartphone
which, despite being always available, nearly always disappoints me.

So what I'd like is pocketable and with the "feel" of an old school
film camera. That is, simple ergonomics. Simple interface, with
buttons and dials for the important most-used functions. I need
reading glasses to see closeup and I prefer devices I can work largely
by feel. Best if it has a viewfinder. Willing to consider EVF if I can
see it in the flesh and it convinces me.

I'd be okay with a fixed lens, but it would have to be a normal. 50mm
FF equiv. Subjects would often be landscape features, and the wide
lenses on smartphones just drive me nuts.

As a fellow Pentax user, what compact camera like this would you recommend?



If you have big pockets, the Fuji T-T2 with the 35mm lens would be an 
excellent choice.


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