Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Joe Gracey wrote: Our first tour was, however, pretty damn funny on the nights when we would land in one of the clubs where they kept yelling "Crystal Chandelier" at you all night long and made you play that damn song while they did the confederate uniform routine. Argh! That's the other favourite - The Crystal Chandeliers. They never get sick of that song. However, the food at them services is still unforgiveable. How they manage to suck all of the flavor out of a sausage is a mystery to me to this day. Lesson no.1. Never eat food at country western clubs. You don't know where it's come from g Louise -- If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bluesmoke
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
stuart wrote: This has been an interesting and enjoyable thread. Since the Alex in the subject line is my teenaged son, and since Im going to London to visit him and the rest of the crew next week, I want to ask the British P2 squadron if there is any good music happening between the 19th and 28th. And I'm actually quite curious about one of the clubs Louise talks about with the quite mad cowboy patrons. Stuart Well, not being from London, I don't know exactly what goes on up there. From what I've seen in the past, the London crowds are more sophisticated than most so you might not get to see any mad cowgirls g Here is a link that gives a good gig guide, written by Bob Patterson who is a DJ on Country Music Radio for Europe: http://bob.networks.co.uk/rumour/gig.nclk For the madder side of British country, check out this gig/club review: http://www.saradon.co.uk/images/almareview.htm I thought this bit was quite, er, apt: On to the shoot out as usual run by RONDO and his wife FIGHTING SPIRIT, sixteen shooters and no time lost in getting underway as there was an auction to follow o with during the same amount of time usually taken for gunfighters. The eventual winner of the shoot-out was RED, nice to see a different name in print by way of a change. Unfortunately, my own band isn't gigging between the 19th and 28th, otherwise I'd suggest us g. For anyone else interested, the Okeh Wranglers will be playing at the Railway Inn, Winchester on March 3rd. No door fee. Apologies for the SSP, Louise -- If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bluesmoke
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Louise Kyme wrote: Unfortunately, my own band isn't gigging between the 19th and 28th, otherwise I'd suggest us g. For anyone else interested, the Okeh Wranglers will be playing at the Railway Inn, Winchester on March 3rd. No door fee. Woah. A country band comes to MY town. I'm kinda under house arrest until I've hit my publisher's deadline, but I might have to sneak out for this one if I can... can't see this happening again in a hurry... Stevie
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Stevie Simkin wrote: Louise Kyme wrote: Unfortunately, my own band isn't gigging between the 19th and 28th, otherwise I'd suggest us g. For anyone else interested, the Okeh Wranglers will be playing at the Railway Inn, Winchester on March 3rd. No door fee. Woah. A country band comes to MY town. I'm kinda under house arrest until I've hit my publisher's deadline, but I might have to sneak out for this one if I can... can't see this happening again in a hurry... Stevie It would be cool if you could. And even if you don't like the band, how places in Winchester will you find Kelly WIllis/Jack Ingram playing over the sound speakers? Louise -- If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bluesmoke
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Louise Kyme wrote: I hope you don't think too badly of us Brits. We're not all like that, honest g Louise No, no, we figured it out. We just avoid the places where they want copy tunes and stick to places where they are interested in original new material. We have a great London gig at the Weaver's Arms in Stoke Newington and lots of close friends in England. Our first tour was, however, pretty damn funny on the nights when we would land in one of the clubs where they kept yelling "Crystal Chandelier" at you all night long and made you play that damn song while they did the confederate uniform routine. However, the food at them services is still unforgiveable. How they manage to suck all of the flavor out of a sausage is a mystery to me to this day. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Hey there, Shane... Ack! Dolly Parton and Don Williams are the subject of derision in the United Kingdom?! Um, in case you haven't noticed, Dolly and Don are the subject of derision in the United _States_. When I was working outside Manchester in 91 and 92 I did notice, both in print, on TV and in real life groups of working to middle class folks who got way into US country music as well a the whole cowboy and rodeo thing. From what I've been reading on this list for the past few years it sounds like this was no passing fad. I always thought it was kind of an odd hobby to have in the UK - more odd due to the cowboy side than the music side. Very few doggies in Cheshire. Later... CK ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, Louise Kyme wrote: There are a lot of Dolly and Don fans over here in country circles, but you just wouldn't believe the mickey taking the average UK punter gives towards anyone who says they like country music. It is one big joke. Again, this really isn't much different than the way it is in the States, and often underneath the scorn and ridicule thrown its way lies a pretty ugly class bias.--don
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
"Shane S. Rhyne" wrote: Howdy, Still catching up on old P2 posts... Louise Kyme publicly admits the following about our English cousins across the sea: I don't find the success of Garth, Shania, LeAnn and the Mavericks makes it any worse though, because they don't really sound like country. It's the Dolly Parton Don Williams era and sound that most Brits associate with country and laugh at. Ack! Dolly Parton and Don Williams are the subject of derision in the United Kingdom?! Oh yes, very much so. I can see that my calling in life will be to travel across the British Isles like a country music Johnny Appleseed, leaving copies of Dolly's CDs hither and yon at flats, manors, cottages, and homes across the kingdom. I'll leave a copy of Don Williams greatest hits and Dolly's greatest hits in every English hotel room, like a twangy Gideon Bible. I'll make my headquarters at the Hotel Barbican in London and start my evangelistic tent revival show soon thereafter. Well, Dolly is actually very mainstream over here, it's just that she is, well, um, a bit of a mainstream joke. You don't need to leave Dolly's CD around for people to have heard of her, because they already know her. She was on a mainstream chat show late last year and was very funny - very entertaining, and I loved her, but...but... she was definitely being humoured. Did any Brits on here see her on the Chris Evans show (whatever it is called)? There are a lot of Dolly and Don fans over here in country circles, but you just wouldn't believe the mickey taking the average UK punter gives towards anyone who says they like country music. It is one big joke. The English. Hmmph. Oh god, tell me about it, and I'm one of them! Proving once again that their cuisine and taste in music is pretty much the same... g Ah, well, now you're losing your argument. There is nothing like a traditional British Sunday roast g Louise -- If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bluesmoke
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
I remember one time watching a bunch of Londoners laughing at a Texas act in a club there because the lead singer had on a cowboy hat. They assumed it must be a joke and that nobody who took himself to be a serious musician would dress up like that. I think what has happened there is that country music has come to be thought of in the same way that we in the US think of Branson. This is in part because there is a contingent of country fans there who are considered to be squares. We had to fight like hell to convince people that we were not square, not Nashville country types, and didn't dress like Texans to be cute, but because that's how we actaully dressed at home. We got it from both sides, too. The squares hated us because we didn't play Nashville dreck and the hipsters tried to lump us in with the squares. We finally learned which places we would be accepted and which places to avoid and it all worked out, but the cultural differences were very tough to fathom at first. I remember one tiny little old lady, dressed to the nines in a black cowgirl outfit of rather dubious provenance, who came up to Kimmie after our show in Hartleypool and began to hiss squinty-eyed right in Kimmie's face. She said "I don't like you! I don't like you atall! You don't play country music! 'Tis jazz!! 'Tis jazz!!" and stomped off in her psuedo-cowgirl boots. This was because we had brought our big Western Swing band directly from the Broken Spoke the the shores of the North Sea, and the natives just didn't get it atall. They apparently had never heard of Bob Wills, heard a record of his, and didn't realize that in Texas we use more than three chords! It was rather disturbing to be lectured repeatedly about a subject that we assumed we might know more about than a British person, but it happened a lot. Go Figure. Anyway, we love England and we love our London gigs and I thought the whole thing was a great experience. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:10:43 + Stevie Simkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: after all, and I seem to remember Clapton went thru a bit of a Williams worshipping phase During the "Slowhand" phase, to be precise. I'm pretty sure he included a couple of Don Williams songs on that album. Those royalties couldn't have hurt Williams or JJ Cale, for that matter, because it was a popular record. I should remember, because it was *huge* while I was in high school. I do remember that "Cocaine" was one of those mid-tempo songs that was impossible to dance to -- do you try to slow dance or do you try is a fast dance thing or do you just give up and go outside with your buds (pun intended) and chug the warm beer you've got stashed in the bushes? I do remember that during interviews at the time (ca. 1977, I think) Clapton came across as a kind of Don Williams convert -- could this be considered his "country" album, I wonder? Was this all covered in the ND article? I saw Clapton at the Municipal Auditorium in Nashville during the "Slowhand" tour and Williams opened for him there. Was this the case for the rest of the tour? I don't remember much about that show because of all the Miller ponies consumed on the 2 hr. drive. William Cocke Senior Writer HSC Development University of Virginia (804) 924-8432
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
William T. Cocke wrote: During the "Slowhand" phase, to be precise. I'm pretty sure he included a couple of Don Williams songs on that album. The very wonderful "We're All the Way" is on there. He also covered "Tulsa Time" but that turned up on another album I think. I have seen mention of Clapton doing a song called "Country Boy" in concert around this time and have always wondered if that is the Don Williams number "I'm Just a Country Boy" (.' money have I none' .). Anyone know? I do remember that during interviews at the time (ca. 1977, I think) Clapton came across as a kind of Don Williams convert -- could this be considered his "country" album, I wonder? Certainly has some countryish stylings here and there. It also has some great rockers, like "The Core". Was this all covered in the ND article? Still looking for the damn thing on this side of the atlantic... Stevie
RE: WOW! (from Alex)
I have seen mention of Clapton doing a song called "Country Boy" in concert around this time and have always wondered if that is the Don Williams number "I'm Just a Country Boy"... Could be, but it might also be the Albert Lee number turned into a country #1 by some fella named Skaggs... Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Ph. Barnard wrote: About "Country Boy": Could be, but it might also be the Albert Lee number turned into a country #1 by some fella named Skaggs... I suspect (i.e. I know) Jon's right here; Albert Lee was actually in Clapton's band on and off during the period he performed this song. --junior Oh well. That's a pretty good one, too. Be interesting to hear Clapton to do it. Love the version on Skaggs' Live in London album... Stevie
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
I saw Clapton at the Municipal Auditorium in Nashville during the "Slowhand" tour and Williams opened for him there. Was this the case for the rest of the tour? In Philly, John Martyn opened that tour. It's the only time I ever saw Clapton...obviously I wasn't too impressed since that was 1978 and I never had the urge to see him again. :) I remember liking Give 'Em Enough Rope and All Mod Cons a lot better. Still do. Steve Kirsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] np: Slobberbone--Barrelchested (wow, it took me a while, but I **love** this album) ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Joe Gracey wrote: I remember one tiny little old lady, dressed to the nines in a black cowgirl outfit of rather dubious provenance, who came up to Kimmie after our show in Hartleypool and began to hiss squinty-eyed right in Kimmie's face. She said "I don't like you! I don't like you atall! You don't play country music! 'Tis jazz!! 'Tis jazz!!" and stomped off in her psuedo-cowgirl boots. Sad, but a highly accurate summarization of the UK country western circuit. It took my family a good few years to come to the conclusion that if they say that then you must be *really* good. I know lovely people that frequent these clubs and so I don't want to generalize too much, but, well, in general, these people are totally mad. Really, they are. I hope you don't think too badly of us Brits. We're not all like that, honest g Louise -- If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bluesmoke
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
This has been an interesting and enjoyable thread. Since the Alex in the subject line is my teenaged son, and since Im going to London to visit him and the rest of the crew next week, I want to ask the British P2 squadron if there is any good music happening between the 19th and 28th. And I'm actually quite curious about one of the clubs Louise talks about with the quite mad cowboy patrons. Stuart
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Louise Kyme wrote: Following on from what Don said about the class barriers, this is true in the UK too, but I also think the big problem for the general public is the fact that cowboys aren't our history, and nor is country music. You get pockets of people who have been brought up on country music (as I have) and have never known any different, but the vast majority don't relate to the history/geography/accents at all. As you say, there are no doggies/corrals in Cheshire. But there arent any in New Yawk City either. It's always been more myth than fact, but I wonder why the British are not as caught up in it as the Germans are. When I was in American Studies at Kansas, we had a steady stream of German students and the first thing they wanted to study was cowboys and indians (that and Bruce Springsteen and cars). Can't remember any into country music though. I do know Kansas tourism is selling hard in Germany for them to come see the real Dodge City. (Which is a stinking place of feeder lots and gruesome packing houses worked by low paid exploited Vietnamese and Mexicans, who face the riot police in full gear when there is the slightest whiff of trouble). Stuart rambling on tonight
Re: WOW! (from Alex) / Apaches in Saxony
stuart wrote: When I was in American Studies at Kansas, we had a steady stream of German students and the first thing they wanted to study was cowboys and indians A lotta that's probably the lingering influence of Karl May (1842-1912), whose idealized tales of cowboys'n'indians are still popular. May wrote plenty of well-researched novels about the West (which, incidentally, he'd never seen - his career crashed when he started pretending he'd actually done all the stuff he described in the books). Generations of schoolkids have been hooked on the stuff, including Albert Schweizer and Hitler. Howard Lamar's 1998 "New Encyclopedia of the American West" calls May's huge influence "pervasive and continuing." Hey, everybody like a good yarn! Tom Smith
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Shane wonders: Dolly Parton and Don Williams are the subject of derision in the United Kingdom?! Well, they've got Adam Ant and Siouxsie to answer for, don't they g. One nation's pop starts are another's objects of derision, I suppose... --junior
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Howdy, Junyah, he say: Well, they've got Adam Ant and Siouxsie to answer for, don't they g. One nation's pop starts are another's objects of derision, I suppose... Hey! I'm the proud owner of more than a couple of Adam and the Ants LPs. (everybody sing along, "Prince Charming, Prince Charming...") and spent my share of 80s afternoons with Martha Quinn entertaining me with videos from Siouxsie, Duran Duran, et. al. I recall from my one and only trip to England that one of the BBC channels on the radio was dedicated to country music. I recall the announcer saying something like "This is BBC 4, y'all" or something like that. My friends and I giggled more than a bit to hear him struggle to say "y'all" in a gen-you-wine manner. As I recall, the station was pretty heavy at the time on the Kenny Rogers-Barbara Mandrell stuff, which fits with what was going on back in the homeland as well. I adjusted my radio accordingly in hopes of hearing some Adam Ant. (I bought an Adam Ant and a Duran Duran vinyl on that trip thankyewverymuch.) It still doesn't explain what makes Dolly or Don laughable to the English. Good heavens, is there no justice in this world at all? I don't know what any of this has to do with pop tarts. Take care, Shane Rhyne Knoxville, TN [EMAIL PROTECTED] NP: The Countrypolitans, Tired of Drowning
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Jon Weisberger wrote: Stevie, this kind of implies that before 1990 or so country music was widely respected in the UK. Is that correct? Oh, OK. I'll admit to indulging a grouchy outburst rather than a considered expression of opinion. What is different between 1990 and 1999 I would say is that country music has much wider exposure over here than it ever did before, and there is the Daniel O'Donnell factor to contend with too. The odd phenomenon of Scots and Irish singers doing cod American country music for a predoinantly female over 50s audience is one I still cannot fully get my head around. Both via this route, and via Shania and Garth and LeAnn's crossovers, UK audiences are much more aware of country than they were before, and have more to laugh at. If I ever admit to my students that I like (some) country music, I have to do it in a very guarded manner to protect any shreds of credibility I may still own in their eyes. I go via the American music - roots - American folk traditions - thing, and usually stress the alt-country first, at least, talking about wedding punk ethos with country tradition blah blah blah. But since if it's not techno (or derivative 60s guitar driven Britpop, Oasis come on down), it ain't hip, I'm pretty much on a losing wicket from the get go. It just hit me (again) that most of these kids weren't born when punk happened. I did find a 20 year old student who liked Ben Harper recently. I nearly had a coronary. Stevie
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Oh, and the other thing is, we found this great CD shop today... as in they're Alt Country section was about the size of their Pop music section. Anyway, we came across that Lucinda williams CD that was stolen for cheep. I got this email from the boy, who is in London. Alt.country the size of Pop? Can this be true? You English P2ers know?. Is it only outside the U.S that one can find this stuff in retail shops? There do seem to be more shops in the UK stocking US indie releases at sensible prices now, I think Direct Distribution do well at putting things like Bloodshot CDs in the stores. Even Tower had a promotion on these about a year ago. I recently picked up the Wandering Eyes and Kate Wolf tribute compilations at UK prices. That shop does sound good though, any more details on location? Phil Dennison ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
If I ever admit to my students that I like (some) country music, I have to do it in a very guarded manner to protect any shreds of credibility I may still own in their eyes. Stevie Hey Stevie, what sort of credibility could Oasis fans possibly offer you?
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, lance davis wrote: what sort of credibility could Oasis fans possibly offer you? Now *that* is the correct question to be asking. Ought to ask it all the time. Replace "Oasis" with anything, *anything*, and it's a great question. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
stuart wrote: Oh, and the other thing is, we found this great CD shop today... as in they're Alt Country section was about the size of their Pop music section. Anyway, we came across that Lucinda williams CD that was stolen for cheep. I got this email from the boy, who is in London. Alt.country the size of Pop? Can this be true? You English P2ers know?. Is it only outside the U.S that one can find this stuff in retail shops? Stuart thinking about the British Invasion of the 60s Well, I don't know about large alt.country sections in music shops. Usually the alt.country gets mixed in with the mainstream country which adds up to a pretty large selection. You can get Lucinda, Robbie, loads of Alison Krauss and Dale Watson in the Southampton HMV shop, and I know you can a get quite a lot more in London stores (hell, you can *even* buy the Okeh Wranglers in HMV shops now) Lucinda Williams is very 'vogue' in serious music circles in the UK. She was voted no. 4 by a Sunday Times reviewer for album of the year, which is pretty amazing, and Robbie Fulks' 'Let's Kill Saturday Night' get a good review by Q magazine. However, it's one thing being popular among the people who know better, and another thing having mass appeal over here, which they don't. Steve Earle has always had a good/better press and support over here than the Nashville 'stars' and Lucinda could probably do the same. However, acts that are too strongly country and less rock influenced would find it tough in the UK because country music is generally seen as a joke. I bet there aren't any other Brits on P2 that can get Let's Kill Saturday Night in their local library Louise -- If you like rocking country music, check out the Okeh Wranglers web site at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bluesmoke
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Louise Kyme wrote: Well, I don't know about large alt.country sections in music shops. Usually the alt.country gets mixed in with the mainstream country which adds up to a pretty large selection. yeah, tho tower in london have a (fairly small) alt country section Lucinda Williams is very 'vogue' in serious music circles in the UK. She was voted no. 4 by a Sunday Times reviewer for album of the year, which is pretty amazing, and Robbie Fulks' 'Let's Kill Saturday Night' get a good review by Q magazine. there has definitely been an awakening of interest in the scene in the UK in the past 18 months or so. We're getting a lot of people touring or at least visiting (Whiskeytown, Wilco, Son Volt, Chris Whitley (?!), Hazeldine and Casal, Gillian Welch last week, Lucinda last month, etc etc) and the intelligent press is sitting up finally and discovering good American roots music. A number of albums of interest made best of lists in the press - Lucinda of course (I still havent managed to bring myself to listen to it more than once), Lovett, Mermaid Avenue, Welch spring to mind. People are starting to discover that there is more to country than big hats and tight jeans and blander than bland music (sorry all you HNC fans out there, but it is BLAND). Steve Earle has always had a good/better press and support over here than the Nashville 'stars' and Lucinda could probably do the same. However, acts that are too strongly country and less rock influenced would find it tough in the UK because country music is generally seen as a joke. yes. And why? Pumpkinhead. Shania "look at me I'm a prettier Celine Dion" Twain. Billy Ray effing achy breaky Cyrus. Keith "wouldnt know soulful music if it hit me like an express train" Harling. These pillocks and pillockesses and the rest of their brood have a lot to answer for. I bet there aren't any other Brits on P2 that can get Let's Kill Saturday Night in their local library Southampton? really? 12 miles down the road. wow.Stevie grouchy again. Sorry.
RE: WOW! (from Alex)
Steve Earle has always had a good/better press and support over here than the Nashville 'stars' and Lucinda could probably do the same. However, acts that are too strongly country and less rock influenced would find it tough in the UK because country music is generally seen as a joke. yes. And why? Pumpkinhead. Shania "look at me I'm a prettier Celine Dion" Twain. Billy Ray effing achy breaky Cyrus. Keith "wouldnt know soulful music if it hit me like an express train" Harling. These pillocks and pillockesses and the rest of their brood have a lot to answer for. Stevie, this kind of implies that before 1990 or so country music was widely respected in the UK. Is that correct? Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ Website revised 2/1/99
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
Oh, and the other thing is, we found this great CD shop today... as in they're Alt Country section was about the size of their Pop music section. Anyway, we came across that Lucinda williams CD that was stolen for cheep. I got this email from the boy, who is in London. Alt.country the size of Pop? Can this be true? You English P2ers know?. Is it only outside the U.S that one can find this stuff in retail shops? Stuart thinking about the British Invasion of the 60s
WOW.
NP: Steve Earle and the Del McCoury Band "The Mountain" Maybe it's just 'cuz it's new, but geez, I really didn't think he could top "I Feel Alright" but this seems to do it.
