Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Hoffsta]

Haha! Bill, that’s a killer hack and I’m gonna try it! Thanks

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Reed Kennedy]

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 6:08 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

>
> In the argument above I bet money that my zip ties would be intact for a
> long time. They are still rock solid for what it’s worth.


I also zip tie basket to my racks. Sadly haven’t found them to work in
perpetuity, it does eventually break. Specifically, the basket wires
eventually break near the ties. I’ve also had some of the basket welds
fail.

I wish the basket would last as long as the zip ties!


Best,
Reed

>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Trying to paste a link in iPhone. We’ll see if this works

https://flic.kr/p/qXXDbM

PM me if you like

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

In the argument above I bet money that my zip ties would be intact for a long 
time. They are still rock solid for what it’s worth. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Hoffsta]

I saw reference to Bill Lindsay’s “chopped” Wald basket in this thread, however 
the links and Flickr images don’t seem to take me anywhere in 2018. Bill, or 
anyone else, can you repost some pics of this setup? My partner’s new bike 
doesn’t have much room for a basket between her hoods and I’d like to try this. 
Thanks!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Shoji Takahashi]

Just to resurrect the zip tie thread: the current BQ has a nice story of a 
ride from Cholula to Mexico City featuring a Firefly "Enduro All Road". 
Beautiful photos of Mexico, and nice studio photos of the Firefly bike-- 
featuring five or so black zip ties. 

This being a $8,900 bike (complete with low-rider rack, but no basket!), it 
was designed for zip ties given the top-tube braze-ons. (Are they called 
braze ons if they're welded?)

Here's a pic from Firefly's 
flickr. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/fireflybicycles/24544578021/in/album-72157663986789435/

shoji




On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 3:54:25 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Anton insisted on prolonging the rhetorical exercise with:
>
> "If you extend my reasoning to Wald baskets, most often there is another 
> way besides zip-ties to ensure a sturdy connection."
>
> If your alternative is wire wrapping, then:
> Your solution costs more than zipties (but we're first worlders who don't 
> care about cost)
> Your solution is heavier than zipties (but we're not weight weenies)
> Your solution takes 100x longer to install than zipties (but we spend lots 
> of our free time on time sink projects so we don't mind)
> Your solution takes 10x longer to remove than zipties (ditto)
> Your solution is stronger than the basket itself, as are zipties (if we 
> tested your wires would hold more load than 8 zipties, but the basket and 
> the rack would fail first)
> Your solution will outlive you, as zipties can (you saw zipties crack in 
> under a year, I have not)
> Your solution cannot fail catastrophically, just like 8 zipties
> You think 8 zipties looks ugly and trashy.  I think wire lashing looks 
> ugly and trashy.  
>
> The gap is entirely aesthetic, and that's OK.  Ugly is in the eye of the 
> beholder.  Lots of people think twine is ugly.  Lots of people hate all 
> forms of adhesive tape on bicycles.  To each his own.  
>
> Bill
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Steve Palincsar]

I'll bet they won't deteriorate from UV...

On 06/09/2016 04:27 PM, Jeff Lesperance wrote:

What's the opinion on stainless still ties?

Inline image 1

I picked up a packet of these at the big box hardware store and used 
'em to attach stuff to my bike, but not a basket, yet.




--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Jeff Lesperance]

What's the opinion on stainless still ties?

[image: Inline image 1]

I picked up a packet of these at the big box hardware store and used 'em to
attach stuff to my bike, but not a basket, yet.

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Anton insisted on prolonging the rhetorical exercise with:
>
> "If you extend my reasoning to Wald baskets, most often there is another
> way besides zip-ties to ensure a sturdy connection."
>
> If your alternative is wire wrapping, then:
> Your solution costs more than zipties (but we're first worlders who don't
> care about cost)
> Your solution is heavier than zipties (but we're not weight weenies)
> Your solution takes 100x longer to install than zipties (but we spend lots
> of our free time on time sink projects so we don't mind)
> Your solution takes 10x longer to remove than zipties (ditto)
> Your solution is stronger than the basket itself, as are zipties (if we
> tested your wires would hold more load than 8 zipties, but the basket and
> the rack would fail first)
> Your solution will outlive you, as zipties can (you saw zipties crack in
> under a year, I have not)
> Your solution cannot fail catastrophically, just like 8 zipties
> You think 8 zipties looks ugly and trashy.  I think wire lashing looks
> ugly and trashy.
>
> The gap is entirely aesthetic, and that's OK.  Ugly is in the eye of the
> beholder.  Lots of people think twine is ugly.  Lots of people hate all
> forms of adhesive tape on bicycles.  To each his own.
>
> Bill
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Anton insisted on prolonging the rhetorical exercise with:

"If you extend my reasoning to Wald baskets, most often there is another 
way besides zip-ties to ensure a sturdy connection."

If your alternative is wire wrapping, then:
Your solution costs more than zipties (but we're first worlders who don't 
care about cost)
Your solution is heavier than zipties (but we're not weight weenies)
Your solution takes 100x longer to install than zipties (but we spend lots 
of our free time on time sink projects so we don't mind)
Your solution takes 10x longer to remove than zipties (ditto)
Your solution is stronger than the basket itself, as are zipties (if we 
tested your wires would hold more load than 8 zipties, but the basket and 
the rack would fail first)
Your solution will outlive you, as zipties can (you saw zipties crack in 
under a year, I have not)
Your solution cannot fail catastrophically, just like 8 zipties
You think 8 zipties looks ugly and trashy.  I think wire lashing looks ugly 
and trashy.  

The gap is entirely aesthetic, and that's OK.  Ugly is in the eye of the 
beholder.  Lots of people think twine is ugly.  Lots of people hate all 
forms of adhesive tape on bicycles.  To each his own.  

Bill

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

Actually, 

The glue workaround is something I enthusiastically endorse *when* there is 
no better method available for a particular bike. If a bike were built for 
wiring, I would not endorse gluing the wires. The glue is the most elegant 
solution I can think of when there is no better way. 
There is no glue on my L'Avecaise, because it was designed for wires. But 
there is glue on my Rawland, because it wasn't designed for wires. If you 
extend my reasoning to Wald baskets, most often there is another way 
besides zip-ties to ensure a sturdy connection. If there weren't, I'd 
endorse zip ties.

Anton




On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 3:07:31 PM UTC-4, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> I'm a complicated guy, what can I say...
>
>
> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 2:53:06 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> Anti zip tie, but oddly the idea of gluing wires is somehow appealing!?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

I'm a complicated guy, what can I say...


On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 2:53:06 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> Anti zip tie, but oddly the idea of gluing wires is somehow appealing!?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[masmojo]

Anti zip tie, but oddly the idea of gluing wires is somehow appealing!?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Brian Campbell]

I am pro glue and anti zip tie, when it comes to wires on a bike. I am pro 
zip tie when it comes to attaching a Wald basket to a Nitto rack. I do 
realize that I probably best represent what is wrong with this country 
today;-)

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 1:41:23 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Even though I ignore Anton's disapproval, I celebrate his approval.  ;-)
>
> Just for perspective, Anton can cringe when he sees a ziptie on a 
> nice bike if he wants to cringe.  On the other hand, 
> Anton enthusiastically endorses the inventive and discreetly executed 
> method of gluing wire guides onto a bicycle, fender or rack.  I bet there 
> are people out there who would cringe at the act of gluing stuff onto your 
> bike.  They can cringe if they want.  Anton obviously has a justification 
> for why zipties are a lowbrow hack and why glue is not a lowbrow hack, but 
> he doesn't need to have a justification.  Each individual can dismiss an 
> option if they want to dismiss it.  Alternatively, if you want, you can 
> include all options.  If somebody wants to consider an option only for 
> bikes of a certain price range or level of niceness, that's fine, too.  I 
> think it's unfortunate when a personal bias causes you to tell somebody 
> else that their bike looks terrible or trashed out, but if you can't help 
> it, then you can't help it.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 8:39:50 AM UTC-7, Anton Tutter wrote:
>>
>> Thank God. ;-)
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 1:42:39 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> I have one bike that has a VeloLumino sitcker on it.  That bike features 
>>> two ingenious VeloLumino products.  That bike has no zip ties on it.  
>>>
>>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Even though I ignore Anton's disapproval, I celebrate his approval.  ;-)

Just for perspective, Anton can cringe when he sees a ziptie on a 
nice bike if he wants to cringe.  On the other hand, 
Anton enthusiastically endorses the inventive and discreetly executed 
method of gluing wire guides onto a bicycle, fender or rack.  I bet there 
are people out there who would cringe at the act of gluing stuff onto your 
bike.  They can cringe if they want.  Anton obviously has a justification 
for why zipties are a lowbrow hack and why glue is not a lowbrow hack, but 
he doesn't need to have a justification.  Each individual can dismiss an 
option if they want to dismiss it.  Alternatively, if you want, you can 
include all options.  If somebody wants to consider an option only for 
bikes of a certain price range or level of niceness, that's fine, too.  I 
think it's unfortunate when a personal bias causes you to tell somebody 
else that their bike looks terrible or trashed out, but if you can't help 
it, then you can't help it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, June 9, 2016 at 8:39:50 AM UTC-7, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> Thank God. ;-)
>
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 1:42:39 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I have one bike that has a VeloLumino sitcker on it.  That bike features 
>> two ingenious VeloLumino products.  That bike has no zip ties on it.  
>>
>>


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

Thank God. ;-)

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 1:42:39 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I have one bike that has a VeloLumino sitcker on it.  That bike features 
> two ingenious VeloLumino products.  That bike has no zip ties on it.  
>
>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Bob asked:

"How often do you (or would you) actually lay eyes on the zip ties (rhyme 
intended)? If they're visible it means the basket isn't being used much, 
which in turn could mean that the basket might not be necessary at all"

Twice per ride if the basket is being used.  Continuously if the basket is 
not being used on that ride.  

If I carry stuff in my basket, 99% of the time the stuff goes into my 
ShopSack bag, and then my ShopSack bag goes into the basket.  When I get 
where I'm going, the ShopSack bag comes out of the basket and I park my 
bike.  So, I'm looking at the basket and the 8 orange zip ties once when I 
load it and once when I unload it.  The 1% of the time I'm not using my 
ShopSack bag, it's a big singular item going in the basket, like a 12-pack. 
 Still I see the 8 zipties twice per ride.  

If I leave the basket empty for a ride, I see the 8 orange zip ties 
continuously.  They are right there in front of me.  

I think Bob's comment makes perfect sense if somebody was using their 
basket to continuously carry cargo that is 'never' unloaded from the bike, 
like a toolkit or a first aid kit or emergency rainclothes, etc.  If you 
permenantly cover the zipties with cargo that is never unloaded, you lose 
the chance to see failing zip ties.  If that's your use-case, then you'd 
either have to deliberately look at them, like at the same time you do your 
regular periodic safety check of your QR skewers and your brakes.  

Bill Lindsay

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

I have one bike that has a VeloLumino sitcker on it.  That bike features 
two ingenious VeloLumino products.  That bike has no zip ties on it.  

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 5:57:07 AM UTC-7, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> I put stickers on my fenders and don't consider them in the same aesthetic 
> vein as zip ties at all.
>
> Anton
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 10:44:48 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
>> The fact that the owner wraps his bikes in string or puts stickers on 
>> fenders or lets handlebar tape get ratty or uses zip ties to hold on a 
>> basket is, to me, consistent with the company's overall approach to 
>> bicycles, not contradictory. Though I certainly understand those who want 
>> to keep their machines on the classy side of the street. 
>>
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Anybody with the fastidiousness necessary to build the lights and do the 
wiring you do is obviously not in the same bumper sticker league as the 
average schlubby bear. In other words, I hereby disqualify your tasteful, 
nicely centered, small little sticker. Nice try though.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 8:57:07 AM UTC-4, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> I put stickers on my fenders and don't consider them in the same aesthetic 
> vein as zip ties at all.
>
> Anton
>
> 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 10:44:48 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
>> The fact that the owner wraps his bikes in string or puts stickers on 
>> fenders or lets handlebar tape get ratty or uses zip ties to hold on a 
>> basket is, to me, consistent with the company's overall approach to 
>> bicycles, not contradictory. Though I certainly understand those who want 
>> to keep their machines on the classy side of the street. 
>>
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[masmojo]

Anton, lets not go off on a tangent here,  there's a huge difference between 
one or a few stickers tastefully applied and a whole bunch of them randomly 
covering almost every available space. I recall somewhere a picture of 
someone's orange Cheviot (Keven ?) Literally,  plastered with stickers, it 
looked terrible,  but I think that was rather the point! Urban camouflage! 
Which although disconcerting is understandable.  A bunch of zip ties could 
certainly add to this esthetic. 
I know Grant loves low tech, beusage,patina, etc., but in my experience it 
should be earned & come by honestly.  Very few people can fake it convincingly 
and why would you really want to!? But, then I don't like pre washed jeans 
either; why would I buy jeans that are partially worn out already? H, maybe 
there's a market for pre used bikes!? Buy a bike use it & sell for more money! 
I like it!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Nick Ybarra]

Just thought I'd throw in my experience.  I've been using zip ties to 
secure front baskets to front racks on my bikes for a number of years 
because one time I bought 400 zip ties at the hardware store, and I'd 
really like to use them all before I kick the bucket.  I don't usually put 
anything that heavy in the baskets, but sometimes I do (camp fire logs, for 
instance).  One time I was getting on my bicycle, and I noticed one of the 
zip ties attaching my basket to its rack had broken, so I reached into my 
saddle bag and pulled out a new one and secured it where the old one had 
been.  That was roughly a year and a half ago, if memory serves.  I always 
carry a few extra zip ties in my saddle bags because they weigh nothing and 
they've proven super useful over the years for fixing random roadside 
mishaps and getting me or a friend home without having to call for 
motorized help.  And again, I've still got more than 300 zip ties to put to 
use.  The clock is ticking!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[kielsun]

I agree with Bill here on all counts:

1. Personal preference for/against zip ties is what it is--personal. 
2. The possibility of more than one zip tie failing at a time is extremely 
unlikely, therefore making the safety argument more or less null and void. 
Aesthetics is the root here.

And so, I'll add something else to this perhaps already overwrought 
conversation:

How often do you (or would you) actually lay eyes on the zip ties (rhyme 
intended)? If they're visible it means the basket isn't being used much, 
which in turn could mean that the basket might not be necessary at all. I 
should probably cut (zip) ties and throw my basket in the closet this 
afternoon--but then again, the need for a basket isn't always easy 
foreseeable, so utility trumps efficiency for me.

Bob

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 6:18:33 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> There's nothing wrong with feeling that way.  No doubt there are plenty of 
> people who think putting a $20 Wald Basket on a $200 Nitto Rack that's 
> mounted on a $3000 Rivendell bicycle is similarly 'trashing it out'.  Trash 
> is in the eye of the beholder.  
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:55:26 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> LOL, thanks for having my back there Steve! It really matters little what 
>> the zip ties actually cost, if they were gold plated they would still look 
>> bogged together. And my comments are not focused on any particular 
>> individual, just everyone out there on the interwebs. JMHO, but if I am 
>> riding a ratty old Schwinn or whatever,  then zip tie away! But, I paid a 
>> considerable amount of coin on a brand new Rivendell,  I can't bring myself 
>> to trash it out with zip ties, I prefer something a little more elegant. 
>>  My solution although labor intensive was only marginally more expensive 
>> because I used Stainless steel hardware,  if I'd have used inexpensive 
>> galvanized hardware it would not have cost me much different than 8 zip 
>> ties & it looks so much better. 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

I put stickers on my fenders and don't consider them in the same aesthetic 
vein as zip ties at all.

Anton





On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 10:44:48 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:

> The fact that the owner wraps his bikes in string or puts stickers on 
> fenders or lets handlebar tape get ratty or uses zip ties to hold on a 
> basket is, to me, consistent with the company's overall approach to 
> bicycles, not contradictory. Though I certainly understand those who want 
> to keep their machines on the classy side of the street. 
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

One definition of modern, industrialized humans (somewhere along the 
trajectory down). 

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 1:10:49 AM UTC-4, Evan E. wrote:
>
> Evan overthinking zip ties Elliot in San Francisco, CA
>  
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Evan E.]

My Wald basket (from Riv) is attached to my Soma rack with zip ties. Four 
of them are black and stout. Four of them are white and of medium heft. 
They've been there for nine months. I commute five days a week and park my 
bike outdoors, albeit in the shade. I can neither see nor feel any 
degradation of the zip ties so far. But if one or more should break, I, 
like Bill, will report it to the list in the interest of science and 
safety. Then I might buy a bag of those stainless steel zip ties that Tim 
found!

But what I really want to know is: Bill, are standard zip ties actually 
recyclable? The zip ties that I've seen are nylon, and my 
curbside-recycling-collection 
people do not mention nylon as an acceptable material. Please advise.

Evan overthinking zip ties Elliot in San Francisco, CA
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Not sure how "trashed out" zip ties really are, visually speaking. Two 
examples:

First, I used a couple green "fence ties" on my Kuwahara, to keep my 
Baggins from moving too much on the rack. I zipped it, and was about to 
trim, when I noticed it hit the tire in such a way as to remind me of a 
tire saver. So for the heck of it, I left it long. Now it doesn't hit the 
tire any more, so I guess I should give it a clipping. (This was fairly 
recent, the bag occasionally gets moved around.)

Second, I used some zips for attaching a wire basket (brand unknown) to a 
Surly 8-Pack. Obviously, aesthete that I am, I went to my stash of black 
zt's, to match the colorway of my Clementine. I find them hard to notice 
even when the basket it empty, which it often is not. In the case of the 
Baggins/green zips, if I were a normal person and trimmed them, they would 
be unseen.

Wherein I Go On Some More About Zip Ties In the Scheme of Things

In the used furniture dealer business, there is something known as a "frank 
repair." (Don't google unless you need your cars or shoes fixed by a guy 
named Frank.) This refers to a repair done simply to get the thing useable 
again--a drywall screw in a chair leg, or a piece of duct tape on a vinyl 
chair. Older examples sometimes had a real charm, though, and were often 
left alone--maybe something like a chair leg splinted with baling wire. I 
think, although zipping a basket is not technically a repair, it is done in 
a similar spirit--hey, this works just fine, no need to fuss too 
much--let's go ride!


I don't look at Rivendells as artisanal, or fancy-pants. They are expensive 
in terms of what the average citizen would expect to pay for a bicycle, but 
that is because they cost that much to make a long-lasting, beautiful, 
useful machine and still make a living and pay people decently. The fact 
that the owner wraps his bikes in string or puts stickers on fenders or 
lets handlebar tape get ratty or uses zip ties to hold on a basket is, to 
me, consistent with the company's overall approach to bicycles, not 
contradictory. Though I certainly understand those who want to keep their 
machines on the classy side of the street. Like I said, it's a personality 
thing.










On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 5:55:26 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> LOL, thanks for having my back there Steve! It really matters little what 
> the zip ties actually cost, if they were gold plated they would still look 
> bogged together. And my comments are not focused on any particular 
> individual, just everyone out there on the interwebs. JMHO, but if I am 
> riding a ratty old Schwinn or whatever,  then zip tie away! But, I paid a 
> considerable amount of coin on a brand new Rivendell,  I can't bring myself 
> to trash it out with zip ties, I prefer something a little more elegant. 
>  My solution although labor intensive was only marginally more expensive 
> because I used Stainless steel hardware,  if I'd have used inexpensive 
> galvanized hardware it would not have cost me much different than 8 zip 
> ties & it looks so much better. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Jeff Lesperance]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:02 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Dremel be damned. A hammer, my good man, and an expensive axe.
>
>
Finally... a good reason to buy a Gransfors Bruk hatchet think they are
useful for removing zip ties too?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

There's nothing wrong with feeling that way.  No doubt there are plenty of 
people who think putting a $20 Wald Basket on a $200 Nitto Rack that's 
mounted on a $3000 Rivendell bicycle is similarly 'trashing it out'.  Trash 
is in the eye of the beholder.  

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:55:26 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> LOL, thanks for having my back there Steve! It really matters little what 
> the zip ties actually cost, if they were gold plated they would still look 
> bogged together. And my comments are not focused on any particular 
> individual, just everyone out there on the interwebs. JMHO, but if I am 
> riding a ratty old Schwinn or whatever,  then zip tie away! But, I paid a 
> considerable amount of coin on a brand new Rivendell,  I can't bring myself 
> to trash it out with zip ties, I prefer something a little more elegant. 
>  My solution although labor intensive was only marginally more expensive 
> because I used Stainless steel hardware,  if I'd have used inexpensive 
> galvanized hardware it would not have cost me much different than 8 zip 
> ties & it looks so much better. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Tim Butterfield]

Another option for zip ties may be to use metal.  Something like this may
work:
http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Cable-Ties-pieces/dp/B00666CYS8

After getting it snugged, you can use the Dremel to cut off the extra or to
cut the tie for removal.

If going that route, it may be wise to put a piece of tape around the rack
and/or basket to protect against vibrations wearing on the finish.

Tim

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[masmojo]

LOL, thanks for having my back there Steve! It really matters little what the 
zip ties actually cost, if they were gold plated they would still look bogged 
together. And my comments are not focused on any particular individual, just 
everyone out there on the interwebs. JMHO, but if I am riding a ratty old 
Schwinn or whatever,  then zip tie away! But, I paid a considerable amount of 
coin on a brand new Rivendell,  I can't bring myself to trash it out with zip 
ties, I prefer something a little more elegant.  My solution although labor 
intensive was only marginally more expensive because I used Stainless steel 
hardware,  if I'd have used inexpensive galvanized hardware it would not have 
cost me much different than 8 zip ties & it looks so much better. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Patrick Moore]

Dremel be damned. A hammer, my good man, and an expensive axe.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Well played.  You missed the opportunity to add "The only cheap hacks
> permitted on Rivendells are done with a dremel!"
>
> ;-)
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:50:47 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> To hell with zip ties! I disapprove of baskets on Rivendells!
>>
>> Patrick Moore, with a large lump in his left cheek. (But I would *never* put
>> a wire basket on one of my Rivendells.)
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 12:34 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, who knew Wald basket attachment methods could be so passionately
>>> debated. This is the most exciting part of my day so far!
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Well played.  You missed the opportunity to add "The only cheap hacks 
permitted on Rivendells are done with a dremel!"

;-)

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:50:47 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> To hell with zip ties! I disapprove of baskets on Rivendells!
>
> Patrick Moore, with a large lump in his left cheek. (But I would *never* put 
> a wire basket on one of my Rivendells.)
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 12:34 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> Wow, who knew Wald basket attachment methods could be so passionately 
>> debated. This is the most exciting part of my day so far!
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Patrick Moore]

To hell with zip ties! I disapprove of baskets on Rivendells!

Patrick Moore, with a large lump in his left cheek. (But I would *never* put
a wire basket on one of my Rivendells.)

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 12:34 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Wow, who knew Wald basket attachment methods could be so passionately
> debated. This is the most exciting part of my day so far!
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Will]

I guess it's my experience delivering newspapers for several years via 
bike-and-Wald-basket that informs my opinion. I cringe when I see those 
little bitty racks supporting a basket that extends 12" on either side of 
the support foundation. My suspicion is that Wald would never endorse 
zipties. They want big struts attached at the basket perimeter to the axle 
where weight load is most stable. 

I also agree that a failure of 8-10-12 zipties is remote, but having been 
through the endo experience twice (landing on head), once from glue failure 
on a tubular, once from stick in fender,  I have learned fear. :-) 

My comfort level is: basket attached to porteur rack. 

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 3:03:05 PM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> So far I am aware of zero accidents caused by catastrophic zip-tie 
> failures. Any anecdotal evidence out there on RBW? Whereas there is 
> evidence of a carbon fork or two breaking bad. For zips to work as an 
> attachment device for something like a basket to a rack, you need a minimum 
> of four attachment points, and more is better (which I believe Riv 
> advocates). As Bill points out, the chances of them all letting go at once 
> are slim. They are plastic and do have what some might consider an element 
> of cheese to them, no doubt. You're either good with that, or not. But I 
> don't think you can really make a safety argument against zip ties applied 
> with even minimal intelligence--even ones that, unlike the fencing zips I 
> sometimes use, are not labeled UV resistant. 
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:36:59 PM UTC-4, Will wrote:
>>
>>  If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket 
>> connection.
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Cross-posted with Anton's ziptastrophe story. Still, not a catastrophic 
failure of the full zip tie system.

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 4:03:05 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> So far I am aware of zero accidents caused by catastrophic zip-tie 
> failures. Any anecdotal evidence out there on RBW? Whereas there is 
> evidence of a carbon fork or two breaking bad. For zips to work as an 
> attachment device for something like a basket to a rack, you need a minimum 
> of four attachment points, and more is better (which I believe Riv 
> advocates). As Bill points out, the chances of them all letting go at once 
> are slim. They are plastic and do have what some might consider an element 
> of cheese to them, no doubt. You're either good with that, or not. But I 
> don't think you can really make a safety argument against zip ties applied 
> with even minimal intelligence--even ones that, unlike the fencing zips I 
> sometimes use, are not labeled UV resistant. 
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:36:59 PM UTC-4, Will wrote:
>>
>>  If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket 
>> connection.
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

So far I am aware of zero accidents caused by catastrophic zip-tie 
failures. Any anecdotal evidence out there on RBW? Whereas there is 
evidence of a carbon fork or two breaking bad. For zips to work as an 
attachment device for something like a basket to a rack, you need a minimum 
of four attachment points, and more is better (which I believe Riv 
advocates). As Bill points out, the chances of them all letting go at once 
are slim. They are plastic and do have what some might consider an element 
of cheese to them, no doubt. You're either good with that, or not. But I 
don't think you can really make a safety argument against zip ties applied 
with even minimal intelligence--even ones that, unlike the fencing zips I 
sometimes use, are not labeled UV resistant. 

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:36:59 PM UTC-4, Will wrote:
>
>  If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket 
> connection.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Without question, I enthusiastically and emphatically recommend that IF you 
use zipties to mount your Wald Basket to your solid bicycle rack, that you 
should use several of them (like 8 or so).  If any one of them breaks for 
any reason whatsoever, please please replace them all.  If one failed, it 
might have failed because the plastic is degraded, and all of them might be 
on their way to breaking.  Zipties are cheap enough that you can afford to 
be safe.  If you are freaked out by this possibility, maybe zipties are not 
the solution for you.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 12:26:57 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> How to choose the right cable tie? 
>
> *UV and weather resistant cable ties*
> * All polymers including polyamides (nylons) used for the production of 
> cable ties are sensitive to UV radiation. The most common additive used for 
> protecting polyamides from UV radiation is carbon powder commonly known as 
> “carbon black”. Standard natural coloured cable ties have low resistance to 
> UV radiation and therefore are not suggested for outdoor applications.*
>
> *Black cable ties are always manufactured with additional “carbon black”. 
> As a result, they have improved weather and UV resistance and are better 
> suited for outdoor applications and are approved against ISO 4892 for 150 
> hours (approx. 3 years) of QUV-B radiation exposure.*
>
> *For long term exposure to extreme weather conditions and UV, weather 
> resistant cable ties should be used. The weather resistant cable ties are 
> made with compounds that include special additives to provide extra UV and 
> weather resistance are approved against ISO 4892 for 600 hours (approx. 10 
> years) of QUV-B radiation exposure.*
>
>
> https://www.pmgcompanyonline.com/products/other-products/cable-tie-selection/
>
> When it comes to zip ties, YMMV.  Choose wisely.
>
> On 06/07/2016 02:05 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Masmojo, 
>
> You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use them. 
>  To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use zipties, nobody's 
> going to stop them".  Link to original Yogi Berra quote 
> 
>
> The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop using 
> something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't mean what 
> you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said "please 
> please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and respectfully 
> recommend that you mind your own business.  On these boards, it's perfectly 
> fine to say that you use something and why you like it.  It's perfectly 
> fine to say why you don't use something.  It's fine to say "I don't 
> recommend using such and such and here's why".  It's fine to say "I won't 
> use that" and not give any reason.  But, when you tell people that you 
> don't condone me using something, or when Anton begs me to stop using 
> something that I like, I say "stay in your lane".  I will use what I like. 
>  If you want to educate me about things that I'm overlooking because you 
> want me to change my mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and 
> educate me.  I reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for 
> temporary applications.  People use zipties for cable management on their 
> solar panels for 20 years plus.  They don't die from UV, they don't fail, 
> and that's not temporary.  If your only reason is you think zipties on a 
> Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason.  If you want 
> to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to my Nitto Rack 
> that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, easier to remove and 
> similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate me.  I'm not receptive to 
> people telling me to stop using a product with no compelling reason.   
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:16:00 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote: 
>>
>> Two things
>> First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the basket 
>> on for several weeks or months even & taking it off again I would fully 
>> endorse and condone using them, BUT if it's a basket that'll be on there 
>> for 5 years! NO! And I don't think there's anything Rivendellish about it. 
>> Quick easy fixes are intended to be temporary in nature like the Bandaid or 
>> the rubber band. 
>> Secondly,  I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for routing 
>> the brake cable Oh my!!! ;-)  but, at least no zip ties!
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/07/2016 03:48 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Anton reported:

"Years ago, I attached a Wald basket with whatever zip-ties I had 
laying around. Some of them cracked within a year. Some time after 
that, I saw the packaging they had come in, laying in a bin in my 
workshop, and sure enough, it said for indoor use only."


That is a perfectly valid reason to stop using zipties.  If that was 
my experience I would possibly stop using zipties.  If it was a 
universal fact that all zipties crack within a year, I would probably 
never use zipties in the first place.




Case closed.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Anton reported:

"Years ago, I attached a Wald basket with whatever zip-ties I had laying 
around. Some of them cracked within a year. Some time after that, I saw the 
packaging they had come in, laying in a bin in my workshop, and sure 
enough, it said for indoor use only."

That is a perfectly valid reason to stop using zipties.  If that was my 
experience I would possibly stop using zipties.  If it was a universal fact 
that all zipties crack within a year, I would probably never use zipties in 
the first place.  

Bill

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Anton

I get that, and I accept that you weren't telling people what to do, but 
only strongly recommending.  It does surprise me, coming from you, just 
from a rational perspective.  I feel like if I told you I had invented a 
method to mount a basket to a rack that cost nothing, weighed nothing, took 
10 seconds to install and 2 seconds to remove, was flexible enough for 
myriad orientations, was stronger than the basket itself, can't fail 
catastrophically, lasted forever and used recyclable materials, I think you 
would say "wow!  tell me about it!"  You dismiss my invention for one of 
two reasons.  Either you think I'm wrong about my representation of the 
list of features, or you just don't like it because it's zipties.  Both are 
OK opinions for you to have.  If I'm wrong about the feature list, I guess 
I'd like to learn why I'm wrong.  If it's opinion because it's a cheap 
hack, then there's nothing to discuss.  

Bill

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 12:23:08 PM UTC-7, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> You interpreted my post  ("please, please don't use zip-ties") as being 
> directed toward you since you posted about using zip-ties, when in fact it 
> was directed at the original poster, who is/was (maybe not now after this 
> debate?) asking about a Wald basket for his daughter's bike. The "please, 
> please don't" was simply rhetoric for "I don't recommend", but again, and 
> more importantly, it was directed at the OP, not you. Whether or not you 
> had posted your zip-tie comment before I posted in this thread, I would 
> have made the same comment against using zip-ties. I know you to make sound 
> decisions regarding the build details of your own bikes, but that doesn't 
> mean I won't disagree, especially when an inquiry is made that invites 
> suggestions.
>
> Anton
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:52:22 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Will
>>
>> Thanks for that response.  I use 8 zipties to attach my basket to my 
>> rack.  If one of them failed, I'd see it.  It's right there in front of my 
>> face.  It would take all 8 failing to fall off my rack.  I'm not worried 
>> about it, but I do pay attention to it.  If one breaks and I replace it, I 
>> promise I will report about it.  :-)  I also run an Irish strap around the 
>> tombstone and basket and my handlebar, a cheap hack safety recommendation I 
>> picked up from the BLUG, and from multiple Riv employees.   You can kind of 
>> see it here:
>>
>> Strapped 
>>
>> I agree that maybe Anton and Masmojo both didn't mean what they said when 
>> they told me to stop using zipties.  Grant never says "stop using your 
>> carbon fork" or "stop using your carbon bicycle" or "stop using skinny 
>> tires".  He only gives reasons why he thinks you shouldn't use those 
>> products.  If you don't think they are valid reasons you won't be 
>> convinced.  If you do think they are valid reasons, you will be convinced.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 11:36:59 AM UTC-7, Will wrote:
>>>
>>> I dunno Bill... and I've always wondered why Riv advocates zip-ties on 
>>> baskets. They are so dead set that carbon forks are bad because of the 
>>> safety thing. 
>>>
>>> It seems to me that if your zip ties fail and you dump a basket of stuff 
>>> into your wheel, or your basket connection fails and that interfers with 
>>> your steering control at speed... well I dunno, it seems inconsistant to 
>>> me. If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket 
>>> connection.
>>>
>>> Consider the level of vibration the zip ties must mitigate. Clearly 
>>> there is an opportunity for failure. 
>>>
>>> As for Anton and Masmojo GP has a whole slew of things he does not 
>>> condone... skinny tires, carbon anything, big ring chainwheels, undignified 
>>> paint schemes, short chainstays, low spoke wheels, low trail front ends, 
>>> etc just saying...   :-)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 Masmojo,

 You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use 
 them.  To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use zipties, 
 nobody's going to stop them".  Link to original Yogi Berra quote 
 

 The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop 
 using something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't 
 mean 
 what you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said 
 "please please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and 
 respectfully 
 recommend that you mind your own business.  On these boards, it's 
 perfectly 
 fine to say that you use something and why you like it.  It's perfectly 
 fine to say why you don't use something.  It's fine to say "I don't 
 recommend using such and such and here's why".  It's fine to say "I won't 
 

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

And another thing about zip-ties, Bill, is that although you may be well 
literate in the differing standards that zip-ties may be manufactured to, 
the average consumer may not be. There are thousands of flavors of 
zip-ties, some great for attaching Wals baskets, some completely 
inappropriate, and most people would be none the wiser if they were told to 
"just use zip-ties".

Years ago, I attached a Wald basket with whatever zip-ties I had laying 
around. Some of them cracked within a year. Some time after that, I saw the 
packaging they had come in, laying in a bin in my workshop, and sure 
enough, it said for indoor use only.

Anton

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Steve Palincsar]

 How to choose the right cable tie?

   /*UV and weather resistant cable ties*//
   //All polymers including polyamides (nylons) used for the production
   of cable ties are sensitive to UV radiation. The most common
   additive used for protecting polyamides from UV radiation is carbon
   powder commonly known as “carbon black”. *Standard natural coloured
   cable ties have low resistance to UV radiation and therefore are not
   suggested for outdoor applications.*/

   /*Black cable ties *are always manufactured with additional “carbon
   black”. As a result, they have improved weather and UV resistance
   and are better suited for outdoor applications and are approved
   against ISO 4892 *for 150 hours (approx. 3 years) of QUV-B radiation
   exposure.*/

   */For long term exposure to extreme weather conditions and UV,
   weather resistant cable ties should be used. The weather resistant
   cable ties are made with compounds that include special additives to
   provide extra UV and weather resistance are approved against ISO
   4892 for 600 hours (approx. 10 years) of QUV-B radiation exposure./*

https://www.pmgcompanyonline.com/products/other-products/cable-tie-selection/

When it comes to zip ties, YMMV.  Choose wisely.

On 06/07/2016 02:05 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Masmojo,

You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use 
them.  To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use 
zipties, nobody's going to stop them". Link to original Yogi Berra 
quote 


The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop 
using something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't 
mean what you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton 
said "please please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and 
respectfully recommend that you mind your own business.  On these 
boards, it's perfectly fine to say that you use something and why you 
like it.  It's perfectly fine to say why you don't use something. 
 It's fine to say "I don't recommend using such and such and here's 
why".  It's fine to say "I won't use that" and not give any reason. 
 But, when you tell people that you don't condone me using something, 
or when Anton begs me to stop using something that I like, I say "stay 
in your lane".  I will use what I like.  If you want to educate me 
about things that I'm overlooking because you want me to change my 
mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and educate me.  I 
reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for temporary 
applications.  People use zipties for cable management on their solar 
panels for 20 years plus.  They don't die from UV, they don't fail, 
and that's not temporary.  If your only reason is you think zipties on 
a Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason.  If 
you want to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to 
my Nitto Rack that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, 
easier to remove and similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate 
me.  I'm not receptive to people telling me to stop using a product 
with no compelling reason.


On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:16:00 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:

Two things
First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the
basket on for several weeks or months even & taking it off again I
would fully endorse and condone using them, BUT if it's a basket
that'll be on there for 5 years! NO! And I don't think there's
anything Rivendellish about it. Quick easy fixes are intended to
be temporary in nature like the Bandaid or the rubber band.
Secondly,  I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for
routing the brake cable Oh my!!! ;-)  but, at least no zip ties!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

Bill,

You interpreted my post  ("please, please don't use zip-ties") as being 
directed toward you since you posted about using zip-ties, when in fact it 
was directed at the original poster, who is/was (maybe not now after this 
debate?) asking about a Wald basket for his daughter's bike. The "please, 
please don't" was simply rhetoric for "I don't recommend", but again, and 
more importantly, it was directed at the OP, not you. Whether or not you 
had posted your zip-tie comment before I posted in this thread, I would 
have made the same comment against using zip-ties. I know you to make sound 
decisions regarding the build details of your own bikes, but that doesn't 
mean I won't disagree, especially when an inquiry is made that invites 
suggestions.

Anton

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:52:22 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Will
>
> Thanks for that response.  I use 8 zipties to attach my basket to my rack. 
>  If one of them failed, I'd see it.  It's right there in front of my face. 
>  It would take all 8 failing to fall off my rack.  I'm not worried about 
> it, but I do pay attention to it.  If one breaks and I replace it, I 
> promise I will report about it.  :-)  I also run an Irish strap around the 
> tombstone and basket and my handlebar, a cheap hack safety recommendation I 
> picked up from the BLUG, and from multiple Riv employees.   You can kind of 
> see it here:
>
> Strapped 
>
> I agree that maybe Anton and Masmojo both didn't mean what they said when 
> they told me to stop using zipties.  Grant never says "stop using your 
> carbon fork" or "stop using your carbon bicycle" or "stop using skinny 
> tires".  He only gives reasons why he thinks you shouldn't use those 
> products.  If you don't think they are valid reasons you won't be 
> convinced.  If you do think they are valid reasons, you will be convinced.  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 11:36:59 AM UTC-7, Will wrote:
>>
>> I dunno Bill... and I've always wondered why Riv advocates zip-ties on 
>> baskets. They are so dead set that carbon forks are bad because of the 
>> safety thing. 
>>
>> It seems to me that if your zip ties fail and you dump a basket of stuff 
>> into your wheel, or your basket connection fails and that interfers with 
>> your steering control at speed... well I dunno, it seems inconsistant to 
>> me. If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket 
>> connection.
>>
>> Consider the level of vibration the zip ties must mitigate. Clearly there 
>> is an opportunity for failure. 
>>
>> As for Anton and Masmojo GP has a whole slew of things he does not 
>> condone... skinny tires, carbon anything, big ring chainwheels, undignified 
>> paint schemes, short chainstays, low spoke wheels, low trail front ends, 
>> etc just saying...   :-)
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Masmojo,
>>>
>>> You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use them. 
>>>  To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use zipties, nobody's 
>>> going to stop them".  Link to original Yogi Berra quote 
>>> 
>>>
>>> The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop 
>>> using something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't mean 
>>> what you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said 
>>> "please please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and respectfully 
>>> recommend that you mind your own business.  On these boards, it's perfectly 
>>> fine to say that you use something and why you like it.  It's perfectly 
>>> fine to say why you don't use something.  It's fine to say "I don't 
>>> recommend using such and such and here's why".  It's fine to say "I won't 
>>> use that" and not give any reason.  But, when you tell people that you 
>>> don't condone me using something, or when Anton begs me to stop using 
>>> something that I like, I say "stay in your lane".  I will use what I like. 
>>>  If you want to educate me about things that I'm overlooking because you 
>>> want me to change my mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and 
>>> educate me.  I reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for 
>>> temporary applications.  People use zipties for cable management on their 
>>> solar panels for 20 years plus.  They don't die from UV, they don't fail, 
>>> and that's not temporary.  If your only reason is you think zipties on a 
>>> Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason.  If you want 
>>> to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to my Nitto Rack 
>>> that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, easier to remove and 
>>> similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate me.  I'm not receptive to 
>>> people telling me to stop using a product with no compelling reason.   
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, June 7, 

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Since they last for >20 years on the roof, I trust they will outlive me on 
a bike that will spend 99% of it's life indoors.  I promise if one of the 8 
fails for any reason, I will let the group know.  If they failed with 
anything like the regularity you seem to suspect, I would stop using them. 
 It's 17 months now.  

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 12:16:30 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Bill, I think the issue is that *because they deteriorate with exposure 
> to the elements* and *because a failure of a loaded rack or basket could 
> conceivably land you in deep kimshie,* zip ties which may be *perfectly 
> satisfactory for a quick temporary expedient solution* may be *an 
> inappropriate **long-term solution.*   That's what I've said and that's 
> what's quoted down below.  Once again, it has nothing to do with whether 
> zip ties are expensive or not; if they were artisinally curated three bucks 
> each zip ties then in my opinion for whatever that's worth they would cease 
> to be a "cheap" hack, but would certainly continue to be a hack.  
>
> On 06/07/2016 03:01 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> masmojo 
>
> I had a feeling you didn't mean it.  I think it's great to hand out 
> approval liberally.  It's the disapproval that you should be really careful 
> with.  If you meant it as a joke, I accept that.  
>
> I agree that my Joe Appaloosa was very expensive and 8 zipties are very 
> inexpensive.  I understand the opinion that the cost of 8 zipties is too 
> low to deserve being places on a Joe Appaloosa.  It makes me want to go 
> into business artisinally curating zipties, and selling them for $3 apiece. 
>  Then it will be sufficiently expensive to deserve placement on a $3000 
> bicycle.  I understand the opinion that expensive bikes shouldn't have any 
> inexpensive things on them.  I respectfully disagree with that opinion.  If 
> the features are appropriate, the cost is what it is.  I'll pay a LOT for 
> the right features, and I'll pay a little if cheap parts have the right 
> features.  
>
> Bill
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 11:50:55 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote: 
>>
>> Yeah, people use zip ties for all kinds of things and I continue to 
>> condone that practice ( oh crap I did it again!). Actually,  Bill I used 
>> that language intentionally,  because I thought it humorous.  As if my 
>> condoning anything meant squat to anybody which I am sure it doesn't! My 
>> sense of humor is rather dry & droll at the same time,  sadly. 
>> Thay said zip ties are a cheap hack, always have been & always will be. 
>> No harm in that, but I personally feel* thats not acceptable to me as a 
>> long term solution,*  especially in holding on a basket *for numerous 
>> years. * Now, maybe you are using zip ties as a sort of camouflage!? 
>> Making the bike look trashy by festooning it with zip ties, pieces of 
>> twine, a copious number of frame stickers, etc. can be a very effective 
>> theft deterrent; in which case I applaud the individuals ingenuity! But, at 
>> the end of the day it seems like antithema or insult to do this to a very 
>> beautiful & expensive bike.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Joe Bernard]

Riv specifically states that you need to use a bunch of zip-ties on a basket. I 
think the odds of enough of them failing at the same time to cause basket 
spillage are very low unless you're bombing down a ski run at Northstar with a 
basketed Rivbike. Don't do that. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Steve Palincsar]

Bill, I think the issue is that *because they deteriorate with exposure 
to the elements* and *because a failure of a loaded rack or basket could 
conceivably land you in deep kimshie,* zip ties which may be *perfectly 
satisfactory for a quick temporary expedient solution* may be *an 
inappropriate **long-term solution.*   That's what I've said and that's 
what's quoted down below.  Once again, it has nothing to do with whether 
zip ties are expensive or not; if they were artisinally curated three 
bucks each zip ties then in my opinion for whatever that's worth they 
would cease to be a "cheap" hack, but would certainly continue to be a 
hack.


On 06/07/2016 03:01 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

masmojo

I had a feeling you didn't mean it.  I think it's great to hand out 
approval liberally.  It's the disapproval that you should be really 
careful with.  If you meant it as a joke, I accept that.


I agree that my Joe Appaloosa was very expensive and 8 zipties are 
very inexpensive.  I understand the opinion that the cost of 8 zipties 
is too low to deserve being places on a Joe Appaloosa.  It makes me 
want to go into business artisinally curating zipties, and selling 
them for $3 apiece.  Then it will be sufficiently expensive to deserve 
placement on a $3000 bicycle.  I understand the opinion that expensive 
bikes shouldn't have any inexpensive things on them.  I respectfully 
disagree with that opinion.  If the features are appropriate, the cost 
is what it is.  I'll pay a LOT for the right features, and I'll pay a 
little if cheap parts have the right features.


Bill

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 11:50:55 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:

Yeah, people use zip ties for all kinds of things and I continue
to condone that practice ( oh crap I did it again!). Actually,
 Bill I used that language intentionally,  because I thought it
humorous.  As if my condoning anything meant squat to anybody
which I am sure it doesn't! My sense of humor is rather dry &
droll at the same time,  sadly.
Thay said zip ties are a cheap hack, always have been & always
will be. No harm in that, but I personally feel*thats not
acceptable to me as a long term solution,*  especially in holding
on a basket *for numerous years. * Now, maybe you are using zip
ties as a sort of camouflage!? Making the bike look trashy by
festooning it with zip ties, pieces of twine, a copious number of
frame stickers, etc. can be a very effective theft deterrent; in
which case I applaud the individuals ingenuity! But, at the end of
the day it seems like antithema or insult to do this to a very
beautiful & expensive bike.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
.

Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

masmojo

I had a feeling you didn't mean it.  I think it's great to hand out 
approval liberally.  It's the disapproval that you should be really careful 
with.  If you meant it as a joke, I accept that.  

I agree that my Joe Appaloosa was very expensive and 8 zipties are very 
inexpensive.  I understand the opinion that the cost of 8 zipties is too 
low to deserve being places on a Joe Appaloosa.  It makes me want to go 
into business artisinally curating zipties, and selling them for $3 apiece. 
 Then it will be sufficiently expensive to deserve placement on a $3000 
bicycle.  I understand the opinion that expensive bikes shouldn't have any 
inexpensive things on them.  I respectfully disagree with that opinion.  If 
the features are appropriate, the cost is what it is.  I'll pay a LOT for 
the right features, and I'll pay a little if cheap parts have the right 
features.  

Bill

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 11:50:55 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> Yeah, people use zip ties for all kinds of things and I continue to 
> condone that practice ( oh crap I did it again!). Actually,  Bill I used 
> that language intentionally,  because I thought it humorous.  As if my 
> condoning anything meant squat to anybody which I am sure it doesn't! My 
> sense of humor is rather dry & droll at the same time,  sadly. 
> Thay said zip ties are a cheap hack, always have been & always will be. No 
> harm in that, but I personally feel thats not acceptable to me as a long 
> term solution,  especially in holding on a basket for numerous years.  Now, 
> maybe you are using zip ties as a sort of camouflage!? Making the bike look 
> trashy by festooning it with zip ties, pieces of twine, a copious number of 
> frame stickers, etc. can be a very effective theft deterrent; in which case 
> I applaud the individuals ingenuity! But, at the end of the day it seems 
> like antithema or insult to do this to a very beautiful & expensive bike.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Will

Thanks for that response.  I use 8 zipties to attach my basket to my rack. 
 If one of them failed, I'd see it.  It's right there in front of my face. 
 It would take all 8 failing to fall off my rack.  I'm not worried about 
it, but I do pay attention to it.  If one breaks and I replace it, I 
promise I will report about it.  :-)  I also run an Irish strap around the 
tombstone and basket and my handlebar, a cheap hack safety recommendation I 
picked up from the BLUG, and from multiple Riv employees.   You can kind of 
see it here:

Strapped 

I agree that maybe Anton and Masmojo both didn't mean what they said when 
they told me to stop using zipties.  Grant never says "stop using your 
carbon fork" or "stop using your carbon bicycle" or "stop using skinny 
tires".  He only gives reasons why he thinks you shouldn't use those 
products.  If you don't think they are valid reasons you won't be 
convinced.  If you do think they are valid reasons, you will be convinced.  



On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 11:36:59 AM UTC-7, Will wrote:
>
> I dunno Bill... and I've always wondered why Riv advocates zip-ties on 
> baskets. They are so dead set that carbon forks are bad because of the 
> safety thing. 
>
> It seems to me that if your zip ties fail and you dump a basket of stuff 
> into your wheel, or your basket connection fails and that interfers with 
> your steering control at speed... well I dunno, it seems inconsistant to 
> me. If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket 
> connection.
>
> Consider the level of vibration the zip ties must mitigate. Clearly there 
> is an opportunity for failure. 
>
> As for Anton and Masmojo GP has a whole slew of things he does not 
> condone... skinny tires, carbon anything, big ring chainwheels, undignified 
> paint schemes, short chainstays, low spoke wheels, low trail front ends, 
> etc just saying...   :-)
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Masmojo,
>>
>> You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use them. 
>>  To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use zipties, nobody's 
>> going to stop them".  Link to original Yogi Berra quote 
>> 
>>
>> The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop 
>> using something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't mean 
>> what you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said 
>> "please please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and respectfully 
>> recommend that you mind your own business.  On these boards, it's perfectly 
>> fine to say that you use something and why you like it.  It's perfectly 
>> fine to say why you don't use something.  It's fine to say "I don't 
>> recommend using such and such and here's why".  It's fine to say "I won't 
>> use that" and not give any reason.  But, when you tell people that you 
>> don't condone me using something, or when Anton begs me to stop using 
>> something that I like, I say "stay in your lane".  I will use what I like. 
>>  If you want to educate me about things that I'm overlooking because you 
>> want me to change my mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and 
>> educate me.  I reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for 
>> temporary applications.  People use zipties for cable management on their 
>> solar panels for 20 years plus.  They don't die from UV, they don't fail, 
>> and that's not temporary.  If your only reason is you think zipties on a 
>> Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason.  If you want 
>> to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to my Nitto Rack 
>> that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, easier to remove and 
>> similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate me.  I'm not receptive to 
>> people telling me to stop using a product with no compelling reason.   
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:16:00 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>>
>>> Two things
>>> First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the basket 
>>> on for several weeks or months even & taking it off again I would fully 
>>> endorse and condone using them, BUT if it's a basket that'll be on there 
>>> for 5 years! NO! And I don't think there's anything Rivendellish about it. 
>>> Quick easy fixes are intended to be temporary in nature like the Bandaid or 
>>> the rubber band. 
>>> Secondly,  I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for routing 
>>> the brake cable Oh my!!! ;-)  but, at least no zip ties!
>>>
>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[masmojo]

Yeah, people use zip ties for all kinds of things and I continue to condone 
that practice ( oh crap I did it again!). Actually,  Bill I used that language 
intentionally,  because I thought it humorous.  As if my condoning anything 
meant squat to anybody which I am sure it doesn't! My sense of humor is rather 
dry & droll at the same time,  sadly. 
Thay said zip ties are a cheap hack, always have been & always will be. No harm 
in that, but I personally feel thats not acceptable to me as a long term 
solution,  especially in holding on a basket for numerous years.  Now, maybe 
you are using zip ties as a sort of camouflage!? Making the bike look trashy by 
festooning it with zip ties, pieces of twine, a copious number of frame 
stickers, etc. can be a very effective theft deterrent; in which case I applaud 
the individuals ingenuity! But, at the end of the day it seems like antithema 
or insult to do this to a very beautiful & expensive bike.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Joe Bernard]

I'm late to this thread, and quite amused by it. It has the ring of many of my 
political discussions with opposite-party friends on Twitter. "I respectfully 
disagree in spite of how wrong you are how are the kids good day sir." ;-)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Will]

I dunno Bill... and I've always wondered why Riv advocates zip-ties on 
baskets. They are so dead set that carbon forks are bad because of the 
safety thing. 

It seems to me that if your zip ties fail and you dump a basket of stuff 
into your wheel, or your basket connection fails and that interfers with 
your steering control at speed... well I dunno, it seems inconsistant to 
me. If a steel fork is necessary, well... so is a bullet proof basket 
connection.

Consider the level of vibration the zip ties must mitigate. Clearly there 
is an opportunity for failure. 

As for Anton and Masmojo GP has a whole slew of things he does not 
condone... skinny tires, carbon anything, big ring chainwheels, undignified 
paint schemes, short chainstays, low spoke wheels, low trail front ends, 
etc just saying...   :-)

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Masmojo,
>
> You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use them. 
>  To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use zipties, nobody's 
> going to stop them".  Link to original Yogi Berra quote 
> 
>
> The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop using 
> something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't mean what 
> you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said "please 
> please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and respectfully 
> recommend that you mind your own business.  On these boards, it's perfectly 
> fine to say that you use something and why you like it.  It's perfectly 
> fine to say why you don't use something.  It's fine to say "I don't 
> recommend using such and such and here's why".  It's fine to say "I won't 
> use that" and not give any reason.  But, when you tell people that you 
> don't condone me using something, or when Anton begs me to stop using 
> something that I like, I say "stay in your lane".  I will use what I like. 
>  If you want to educate me about things that I'm overlooking because you 
> want me to change my mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and 
> educate me.  I reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for 
> temporary applications.  People use zipties for cable management on their 
> solar panels for 20 years plus.  They don't die from UV, they don't fail, 
> and that's not temporary.  If your only reason is you think zipties on a 
> Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason.  If you want 
> to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to my Nitto Rack 
> that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, easier to remove and 
> similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate me.  I'm not receptive to 
> people telling me to stop using a product with no compelling reason.   
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:16:00 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> Two things
>> First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the basket 
>> on for several weeks or months even & taking it off again I would fully 
>> endorse and condone using them, BUT if it's a basket that'll be on there 
>> for 5 years! NO! And I don't think there's anything Rivendellish about it. 
>> Quick easy fixes are intended to be temporary in nature like the Bandaid or 
>> the rubber band. 
>> Secondly,  I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for routing 
>> the brake cable Oh my!!! ;-)  but, at least no zip ties!
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Wow, who knew Wald basket attachment methods could be so passionately 
debated. This is the most exciting part of my day so far!

Bill, I don't think anyone commented with the idea of seriously telling you 
what to do. I think it's just a way of writing or talking about a position 
somebody might have a strong opinion about. If they were in fact trying to 
zealously convert you over to the non-zip world, they are indeed foolhardy!

In terms of UV problems, I came across a lifetime supply of "Fence Ties" at 
a garage sale. They are made by Tenax, are bright green, and resist UV 
rays, probably long enough for Bill to win his bet and then some. I suspect 
they would go well with BRG...

 As far as stress breakage, I think with enough points of attachment, and 
pulling tight, using the corners so they have nowhere to wiggle or slide, 
it will be fine 98.76 percent of the time. But still, that stainless steel 
wire wrap is tres cool! 

I do think how a man or woman chooses to attach things to their bicycle in 
some way speaks to their personality. Although, as Freud (or was it Yogi?) 
once said, sometimes a zip tie is just a zip tie. But I draw the line at 
zip-tying racks.

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:05:49 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Masmojo,
>
> You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use them. 
>  To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use zipties, nobody's 
> going to stop them".  Link to original Yogi Berra quote 
> 
>
> The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop using 
> something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't mean what 
> you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said "please 
> please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and respectfully 
> recommend that you mind your own business.  On these boards, it's perfectly 
> fine to say that you use something and why you like it.  It's perfectly 
> fine to say why you don't use something.  It's fine to say "I don't 
> recommend using such and such and here's why".  It's fine to say "I won't 
> use that" and not give any reason.  But, when you tell people that you 
> don't condone me using something, or when Anton begs me to stop using 
> something that I like, I say "stay in your lane".  I will use what I like. 
>  If you want to educate me about things that I'm overlooking because you 
> want me to change my mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and 
> educate me.  I reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for 
> temporary applications.  People use zipties for cable management on their 
> solar panels for 20 years plus.  They don't die from UV, they don't fail, 
> and that's not temporary.  If your only reason is you think zipties on a 
> Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason.  If you want 
> to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to my Nitto Rack 
> that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, easier to remove and 
> similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate me.  I'm not receptive to 
> people telling me to stop using a product with no compelling reason.   
>
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:16:00 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> Two things
>> First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the basket 
>> on for several weeks or months even & taking it off again I would fully 
>> endorse and condone using them, BUT if it's a basket that'll be on there 
>> for 5 years! NO! And I don't think there's anything Rivendellish about it. 
>> Quick easy fixes are intended to be temporary in nature like the Bandaid or 
>> the rubber band. 
>> Secondly,  I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for routing 
>> the brake cable Oh my!!! ;-)  but, at least no zip ties!
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Masmojo,

You are entitled to not-use zipties whenever you choose to not-use them. 
 To paraphrase Yogi Berra:  "If people don't want to use zipties, nobody's 
going to stop them".  Link to original Yogi Berra quote 


The place you or Anton lose me is when you tell other people to stop using 
something that they like using.  Maybe you and Anton just didn't mean what 
you said, but when you said "I don't condone it" and Anton said "please 
please don't use zipties", that's where I politely and respectfully 
recommend that you mind your own business.  On these boards, it's perfectly 
fine to say that you use something and why you like it.  It's perfectly 
fine to say why you don't use something.  It's fine to say "I don't 
recommend using such and such and here's why".  It's fine to say "I won't 
use that" and not give any reason.  But, when you tell people that you 
don't condone me using something, or when Anton begs me to stop using 
something that I like, I say "stay in your lane".  I will use what I like. 
 If you want to educate me about things that I'm overlooking because you 
want me to change my mind about zipties, then by all means go ahead and 
educate me.  I reject the assertion that zipties are solely intended for 
temporary applications.  People use zipties for cable management on their 
solar panels for 20 years plus.  They don't die from UV, they don't fail, 
and that's not temporary.  If your only reason is you think zipties on a 
Rivendell is a lowbrow hack, I already know about that reason.  If you want 
to recommend another way for me to attach my Wald Basket to my Nitto Rack 
that is cheaper, lighter, stronger, easier to install, easier to remove and 
similarly recyclable, then by all means, educate me.  I'm not receptive to 
people telling me to stop using a product with no compelling reason.   

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:16:00 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> Two things
> First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the basket 
> on for several weeks or months even & taking it off again I would fully 
> endorse and condone using them, BUT if it's a basket that'll be on there 
> for 5 years! NO! And I don't think there's anything Rivendellish about it. 
> Quick easy fixes are intended to be temporary in nature like the Bandaid or 
> the rubber band. 
> Secondly,  I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for routing 
> the brake cable Oh my!!! ;-)  but, at least no zip ties!
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

I retract that comment.  Steve makes several truthful, honest and objective 
observations about Rivendell Bicycles.  He makes them repeatedly.  I don't 
know which one is his favorite.  I don't even know which one he recounts 
most often.  In my view, his top 5 most common truthful and accurate, 
objective observations about Rivendell are:

1.  Rivendells use OS tubing
2.  Rivendells have high trail and high flop AND Rivendell Bicycle Works 
also recommends and sells cargo carrying products intended for the front of 
bicycles
3.  Rivendell bicycles have zero extra purpose-built features to manage 
dynamo wiring AND Rivendell Bicycle Works also recommends and sells dynamo 
lighting
4.  One Atlantis Steve saw needed a 1" spacer at the chainstay bridge to 
achieve acceptable fender line.  Rivendell Bicycle Works also recommends 
and sells fenders
5.  Rivendell sells expensive bicycles AND Rivendell's BLUG celebrates 
inexpensive solutions to various problems

Those are 5 objective facts that nobody could honestly dispute.  Steve 
tends to repeat those facts honestly and objectively.  I often find the 
conclusions Steve draws from those objective facts ... ungenerous.  Calling 
it Riv-bashing is overstating my opinion somewhat.  I initially thought 
Steve was getting at #5 with his anti-zip-tie stuff.  I think it is 
snobbish to dismiss inexpensive solutions purely because they are 
inexpensive.  There's another message board, called iBob, that celebrates 
inexpensive and effective solutions to problems.  Ironically, Steve is a 
moderator on that board.  That irony has stricken me for several years now. 
 The topic I feared he was heading towards is #4.  Now, I actually think he 
might have been taking us towards #3.  Rhetorically, he has his patterns, 
and I'm one who does not like to be rhetorically 'herded', so I tried to 
anticipate.  

Please, everybody, understand that I like Steve very much, and respect him 
a great deal.  I think he's kind of grouchy about certain things, and he 
and I exchange somewhere between 10 and 20 personal emails a year, and 
probably 3/4 of them are pleasant.  I think he sometimes unnecessarily 
draws ungenerous conclusions about Rivendell Bicycle Works based on his 
true and correct observations.  We debate because he bases everything on 
facts.  I only take issue with the conclusions he draws from those facts. 
 When I'm being ungenerous to Steve, I call it Riv-bashing.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:10:30 AM UTC-7, Pudge wrote:
>
> What's Steve's favorite Riv-bashing subject?
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Paul]

Apologies for not deleting the digest portion of my post.My bad.Anyway to 
delete the whole thing?
Those velcro wraps have proven to work very well for me for about two years or 
a bit over now and sometimes I load it pretty heavyin the 30 pound range.
Again , sorry about the digest mode screw up.



Paul in Dallas

 Original message 
From: Paul <truegol...@att.net> 
Date: 6/7/2016  10:27 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??) 




I have the large Wald basket from Rivbike tied to my rear rack with about a 
dozen of these 
http://m.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924/202261940



Paul in Dallas

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

I think Grant must have stock in a Zip Tie manufacturer somewhere...

Anton


On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 10:22:21 AM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> Additionally,  if others hadn't noticed and I don't think they really 
> highlight it, but I think the difference between the baskets that Rivendell 
> has & the normal Wald baskets is the Rivendell ones are just the basket, 
>  no handlebar loops or struts. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[masmojo]

Additionally,  if others hadn't noticed and I don't think they really highlight 
it, but I think the difference between the baskets that Rivendell has & the 
normal Wald baskets is the Rivendell ones are just the basket,  no handlebar 
loops or struts. 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[masmojo]

Two things
First zip ties are brilliant & were it a situation of putting the basket on for 
several weeks or months even & taking it off again I would fully endorse and 
condone using them, BUT if it's a basket that'll be on there for 5 years! NO! 
And I don't think there's anything Rivendellish about it. Quick easy fixes are 
intended to be temporary in nature like the Bandaid or the rubber band. 
Secondly,  I notice that very fine Mercian, lacks braze-ons for routing the 
brake cable Oh my!!! ;-)  but, at least no zip ties!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

What's Steve's favorite Riv-bashing subject?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2016, at 7:42 PM, Bill Lindsay 
> wrote:

Steve retorted:

"No, a thousand times no, that is absolutely not right.  How bloody expensive 
is a fender eyelet or rack mount fitting?  Come on - that stuff isn't expensive 
at all.  But a bicycle meant to take fenders and racks should have fender 
eyelets and rack mounts.  Period.   This has nothing to do with being 
expensive, and everything to do with being fully thought out as opposed to 
half-assed and not finished.   If that is snobbery, then so be it.   The Taylor 
brothers were constructeurs too, and god knows they were as down to earth 
working class as it comes (and I have a great reverence for Jack Taylor 
bicycles)."

Stay on topic, Steve.  We can't insist on debating if you change the subject.  
The subject, as indicated in the subject line of this very post, has nothing to 
do with mounting racks or fenders to bicycle frames.  The subject here is about 
mounting a Wald Basket to a solid front rack.  That's it.  I assert that zip 
ties are perfectly OK for mounting a Wald Basket to a Nitto Front Rack.  If you 
are agreeing with me on that point, then great we agree.

If you want to close on your change of subject, I'm willing to do that.

I agree with you that zipties are insufficient to attach a rack to a bicycle 
frame.  Anybody who does that is dumb, in my opinion.  Any manufacturer who 
recommends it is reckless.

I agree with you that a bike that is designed for fenders should have fender 
eyelets at the dropouts.  Manufacturers who make bikes without fender eyelets 
at the dropouts should not recommend installing fenders.

If you are double-changing the subject off of zipties entirely, and back to 
your favorite Riv-bashing subject, then I just don't know what to do about 
that.  Please don't tell me we are getting back on to your favorite Riv-bashing 
subject AGAIN.Talk about mind-numbingly boring.  That's even more boring 
than a dark green bicycle.





--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.




The sender of this email is a retired partner of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher 
& Flom LLP ("Skadden") and is not performing legal service on behalf of 
Skadden. Use by a retired partner of the skadden.com or probonolaw.com domain 
names is in his/her personal capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its 
affiliates.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

EPIC bluff-call, Anton!  I gratefully accept your gift of that fine 
Mercian.and true to my word I humbly offer it back to you.  

Bill

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[David Hays]

Always love seeing that Mercian Anton.
David


> On Jun 6, 2016, at 9:52 PM, Anton Tutter  > wrote:
> 
> Oh boy. 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:00:25 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
> 
> 
> Confession time.  I'm a snob about British Racing Green.  I think BRG is the 
> most overused, ugly and mind numbingly boring color possible for a bicycle.  
> I'm a snob about it.  If you gave me a BRG bicycle, I'd either give it away 
> or take to the painter.  I'm a snob about it, and I'm allowed to be a snob 
> about it.  I realize lots of people love BRG, and they are entitled to love 
> it.  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
> .
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch 
> .
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> .

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Steve Palincsar]

Nothing boring about that bad boy.

On 06/06/2016 09:52 PM, Anton Tutter wrote:


Oh boy.






On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:00:25 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:



Confession time.  I'm a snob about British Racing Green.  I think
BRG is the most overused, ugly and mind numbingly boring color
possible for a bicycle.  I'm a snob about it.  If you gave me a
BRG bicycle, I'd either give it away or take to the painter.  I'm
a snob about it, and I'm allowed to be a snob about it.  I realize
lots of people love BRG, and they are entitled to love it.




--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Anton Tutter]

Oh boy. 





On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 6:00:25 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>
>
> Confession time.  I'm a snob about British Racing Green.  I think BRG is 
> the most overused, ugly and mind numbingly boring color possible for a 
> bicycle.  I'm a snob about it.  If you gave me a BRG bicycle, I'd either 
> give it away or take to the painter.  I'm a snob about it, and I'm allowed 
> to be a snob about it.  I realize lots of people love BRG, and they are 
> entitled to love it.  
>
>
>>
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/06/2016 07:42 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Steve retorted:

"No, a thousand times no, that is absolutely not right.  How bloody 
expensive is a fender eyelet or rack mount fitting?  Come on - that 
stuff isn't expensive at all.  But a bicycle meant to take fenders and 
racks should have fender eyelets and rack mounts.  Period.   This has 
nothing to do with being expensive, and everything to do with being 
fully thought out as opposed to half-assed and not finished.   If that 
is snobbery, then so be it.   The Taylor brothers were constructeurs 
too, and god knows they were as down to earth working class as it 
comes (and I have a great reverence for Jack Taylor bicycles)."


Stay on topic, Steve.  We can't insist on debating if you change the 
subject.  The subject, as indicated in the subject line of this very 
post, has nothing to do with mounting racks or fenders to bicycle 
frames.  The subject here is about mounting a Wald Basket to a solid 
front rack.  That's it.  I assert that zip ties are perfectly OK for 
mounting a Wald Basket to a Nitto Front Rack.  If you are agreeing 
with me on that point, then great we agree.


And we do indeed agree, subject to my proviso regard UV resistance.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Steve recommended: 

"And apropos of the day, you might want to listen to this: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-weBUzQleo   "

For those who don't like clicking links, Steve's link was to a recording of 
the radio message FDR delivered to the American people on the morning after 
Operation Overlord had initiated, the bulk of which was a prayer for the 
brave soldiers and the nation.  I'm very familiar with that message, but 
it's moving to hear it again.  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Steve retorted:

"No, a thousand times no, that is absolutely not right.  How bloody 
expensive is a fender eyelet or rack mount fitting?  Come on - that stuff 
isn't expensive at all.  But a bicycle meant to take fenders and racks 
should have fender eyelets and rack mounts.  Period.   This has nothing to 
do with being expensive, and everything to do with being fully thought out 
as opposed to half-assed and not finished.   If that is snobbery, then so 
be it.   The Taylor brothers were constructeurs too, and god knows they 
were as down to earth working class as it comes (and I have a great 
reverence for Jack Taylor bicycles)."

Stay on topic, Steve.  We can't insist on debating if you change the 
subject.  The subject, as indicated in the subject line of this very post, 
has nothing to do with mounting racks or fenders to bicycle frames.  The 
subject here is about mounting a Wald Basket to a solid front rack.  That's 
it.  I assert that zip ties are perfectly OK for mounting a Wald Basket to 
a Nitto Front Rack.  If you are agreeing with me on that point, then great 
we agree.

If you want to close on your change of subject, I'm willing to do that. 

I agree with you that zipties are insufficient to attach a rack to a 
bicycle frame.  Anybody who does that is dumb, in my opinion.  Any 
manufacturer who recommends it is reckless.  

I agree with you that a bike that is designed for fenders should have 
fender eyelets at the dropouts.  Manufacturers who make bikes without 
fender eyelets at the dropouts should not recommend installing fenders.  

If you are double-changing the subject off of zipties entirely, and back to 
your favorite Riv-bashing subject, then I just don't know what to do about 
that.  Please don't tell me we are getting back on to your favorite 
Riv-bashing subject *AGAIN*.Talk about mind-numbingly boring.  That's 
even more boring than a dark green bicycle.  



 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Zip ties (WAS Re: [RBW] Re: Wald Basket??)

[Bill Lindsay]

Steve

My Wald basket is affixed to my Nitto Front rack with 8 orange zip ties. 
 I'll bet you $100 that in 5 years, it will still be there.  If I 
deliberately remove the rack just because I feel like it, I pay you $100. 
 If I sell the bike and/or the rack and/or the basket, I pay you $100.  If 
I replace one single zip tie, I pay you $100.  If I supply you a photo of 
that Wald Basket attached to that Nitto rack, with 8 orange zipties still 
intact, on 6-6-2021, you pay me $100.  It's an easy date to remember, as a 
date of deep reverence and appreciation to you and all other US veterans 
who have ever served (spoiler: Steve served, but is not old enough to have 
stormed the beaches at Normandy).  You know I'm stubborn enough to collect, 
and I suspect you are just as stubborn as I am. Wanna have that friendly 
bet?

I realize that lots of people feel that expensive bicycles should only have 
expensive things on them, and that zipties are not sufficiently expensive. 
 Some people think an Altus rear derailer isn't expensive enough.  Some 
people think a Wald basket isn't expensive enough.  That's an aesthetic 
opinion, and you are entitled to have it.  God knows I'm a snob about many 
MANY things, so I know snobbery when I see it.  I'm not a snob about 
zipties, but I understand that some people want to be a snob about zipties. 
 

Confession time.  I'm a snob about British Racing Green.  I think BRG is 
the most overused, ugly and mind numbingly boring color possible for a 
bicycle.  I'm a snob about it.  If you gave me a BRG bicycle, I'd either 
give it away or take to the painter.  I'm a snob about it, and I'm allowed 
to be a snob about it.  I realize lots of people love BRG, and they are 
entitled to love it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 1:56:07 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 06/06/2016 04:46 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> > Zipties are freaking awesome.  I'll stop using zipties when I stop 
> > appreciating all inexpensive, elegant, reliable, ingenious inventions. 
> > 
> > 
>
> And they are so very Rivendell.  But, some might say they have no place 
> on an elegant, expensive bicycle, especially as a hack substitute for 
> something that should have been there properly as a matter of course 
> (such as fender eyelets, for example); and they're a whole lot more 
> acceptable when they don't deteriorate and fail due to UV exposure. 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.