RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 6 Meter Repeater

[Charles Rader]

Not there yet. I don't even have a 6 meter rig. I am looking at getting the
Yaesu FT-8900R for my first 6 meter. Any ways, I have built Master II
Repeater, Micor Repeaters, and Lots of Mitrek Repeaters. So I am more
familiar with Motorola than GE but I can handle both. Never built anything
below 2 meter though. If I went with the Mitrek I would use two radios. Due
to the isolation, use one for transmit and one for receive.

My site would be a 60 foot tower on my dad's place in south central
Missouri. He has one of the tallest spots in our county so it is a great
location. So the tower is empty now and I can add sections to make it taller
if I need to. 
 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of burkleoj
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:02 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 6 Meter Repeater

 

  

Charles,
Welcome to the world of 6 Meter repeaters.

They can be a lot of fun. In Missouri you are a little better off frequency
and duplexer wise due to your 1.7 MHz split between transmit and receive
frequencies.

For radios it depends if you are a GE or Motorola person. If you are a GE
person, the Mastr II is the repeater of choice, followed by a Exec II. If
you are a Motorola person, the Micor or MSR2000 are the repeaters of choice,
followed by the Mitrek.

For a duplexer, any good commercial duplexer rated at 1 MHz spacing should
do the trick. Andrew LDF Heliax for feedline, and my favorite antenna is a
pair of DB Products loops, if you have enough tower space. If not a single
loop will work pretty good. I tend to shy away from fiberglass
(Stationmaster style) antennas for use on 6 Meter repeaters.

Your worst enemy will be anything rusty or loose on the tower.

If you are on a busy site near other radios and man made noise, you most
likely will not need nor want to use a preamp on the receiver, but if you
are out in the middle of nowhere on a solar site with a good quiet solar
controller a preamp may be of benefit.

Good Luck with your project.

Joe - WA7JAW

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 , "Charles Rader" 
wrote:
>
> I am tossing around the idea of building a 6 meter repeater. This will
have
> to be single site if I do this. What are you guys using for the repeater,
> duplexer, and antenna?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Charles KC5DGC
>



<><>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?

[Rick Szajkowski]

I have been an IRLP owner for I would say 10 years now .. when the node #'s
were 3 numbers not 4 .. its a great service just like Echo-Link and now
D-Star and others ..  now to get D-Star and IRLP to play :) that would be
fun !

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Skip  wrote:

>
>
> > if they want to use IRLP on there Allstar node then build the software to
> > allow it to run with IRLP
> >
> > Just like the Echolink-IRLP guys did ..
> >
> > you cant run both at the same time but saves having more then 1 pc at the
> > repeater site
>
> Which is exactly what they did. Bottom line is if you want an IRLP node
> number you have to BUY an IRLP board.
>
> Don't take the bait the discussion isn't really here, Ken copied
> that email to a bunch of mailing lists for some reason. I have
> no idea where the original discussion is, this is the third list I've
> seen it on this A.M.
>
> 73's Skip WB6YMH
>
>  
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[larryjspamme...@teleport.com]

>From the Repeater-Builder website:

"WACOM and Remec

WACOM started out as Waco Communications in Waco, Texas. At some point WACOM 
was bought by Remec, and in November of 2001 was sold to TX-RX."

 
TX-RX has since been purchased by Bird Technologies Group. I've tried several 
times to contact them about some replacement cables, etc. for some used TX/RX 
VHF Repeater Duplexers, and have received no response except for one reply that 
said something like "I've passed your request for information to our 
engineering group, who will be contacting you with the information you need". I 
never heard nything further, after several months. 

But several weeks ago, we were able to order a brand-new TX/RX 420-MHz 4-cavity 
duplexer from Bird Technologies for a 420-MHz link transceiver, although it 
hasn't arrived yet (it's a "Special Order" item).

Larry



-Original Message- 
From: Steven M Hodell 
Sent: Sep 9, 2010 11:10 AM 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 

  





WACOM was bought out my Telewave and there tech support staff is very helpful…

http://telewave.com/

You can cross reference your older Wacom cavities with their new product line 
at these links:

http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/wacom.html

http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/duplexers.html





From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
larryjspamme...@teleport.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:04 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

  



WACOM hasn't been in business for some years now. Good luck contacting them 
directly!

-Original Message- 
From: Richard Kelly 
Sent: Sep 8, 2010 9:18 PM 
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 

Good evening Eric,

Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, 
the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets 
regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not 
sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second 
ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also 
try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard 
line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow.

Rich Kelly, W2RRK

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Steven M Hodell]

WACOM was bought out my Telewave and there tech support staff is very helpful…

 

http://telewave.com/

 

You can cross reference your older Wacom cavities with their new product line 
at these links:

 

http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/wacom.html

 

http://www.telewave.com/pricelist/duplexers.html

 

 

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
larryjspamme...@teleport.com
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:04 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

 

  

WACOM hasn't been in business for some years now. Good luck contacting them 
directly!

-Original Message- 
From: Richard Kelly 
Sent: Sep 8, 2010 9:18 PM 
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com 
<mailto:repeater-builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 

Good evening Eric,

Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, 
the receive opens way up like it should. However, according to the spec sheets 
regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts. So, again, not 
sure what's going on. We will be trying other things such as adding a second 
ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will also 
try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard 
line. Thank you very much. We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow.

Rich Kelly, W2RRK

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[larryjspamme...@teleport.com]

WACOM hasn't been in business for some years now. Good luck contacting them 
directly!


-Original Message- 
From: Richard Kelly 
Sent: Sep 8, 2010 9:18 PM 
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 

  



Good evening Eric,
 
Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, 
the receive opens way up like it should.  However, according to the spec sheets 
regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts.  So, again, not 
sure what's going on.  We will be trying other things such as adding a second 
ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now.  We will 
also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard 
line.  Thank you very much.  We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow.
 
Rich Kelly, W2RRK

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Chuck Kelsey]

4 cans will do it. Preamp may or may not be of any use depending on noise 
floor. Your bigger problem is all the noise that a mobile encounters these 
days. Sometimes it's tough to hear the repeater through all the crap that's 
out there.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "NORM KNAPP" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question


> Oh drat! I thought I was getting away with something :-)
> I am about to start on a 6m mastr ii with 1 meg split. It is a 110 watt 
> cont duty station I am converting to a repeater. I don't think the exciter 
> is a pll, way too many cans on the board and small icom About how much 
> isolation will I need there? I don't know if I have a preamp for this one 
> or not... But if I do, I would try to run it.
> 73
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Wed Sep 08 23:08:38 2010
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
>
>
>
>
> The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity
> duplexer. If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing
> desense. The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz 
> offset,
> reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like 
> amount.
>
> See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf
>
> The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his
> situation either. Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of
> crunching it with only a 4-pack. Personally, I'd never run a preamp with
> nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God 
> bless...
>
> A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in
> part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7" versus
> 5"?).
>
> --- Jeff WN3A
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
>>
>>
>>
>> I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II
>> running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no
>> desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is
>> this a miracle or typical?
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >
>> Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010
>> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that
>> has four 5"
>> cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80
>> dB spec is
>> more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range,
>> assuming a
>> solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at
>> 12 dB SINAD. On
>> a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642,
>> which has six 8"
>> cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug...
>>
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- 
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of RichardK
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yah

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?

[Rick Szajkowski]

whats bs ?

if they want to use IRLP on there Allstar  node then build the software to
allow it to run with IRLP

Just like the Echolink-IRLP  guys did ..

you cant run both at the same time  but saves having more then 1 pc at the
repeater site



On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Kris Kirby  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2010, Kent Johnson wrote:
> > Bcc to 2010 VoIP Conference List
> >
> > -Original Message- From: David Cameron (IRLP)
> > [mailto:dcame...@irlp.net ] Sent: Wednesday,
> September 08, 2010 7:56 AM
> > To: Kent Johnson Subject: Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers
> > for AllStar
> >
> > Kent, the short answer is no. I have had far too many complaints about
> >
> > people being brought into full duplex telephone calls and non-radio
> >
> > endpoints due to Allstar nodes on IRLP.
> >
> > The philosophy of IRLP is to keep radios on all ends of a link.
> >
> > Dave Cameron
> >
> > VE7LTD
>
> I call BS.
>
> --
> Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
> Disinformation Analyst
>  
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Leroy A. M. Baptiste]

Hi Scott, can you give me some more information on
circulators, or where can I get such information
and prices.

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of DCFluX
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:03 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639
Duplexer question

  

An additional 20dB of isolation can be realized by
replacing the
antenna Tee connector with a circulator. Port A to
B tuned to the TX
frequency, Port B to C tuned to the RX frequency.
Connect TX to port
A, antenna to B, Receiver to C.

I'm using a set of WP-639 and with this setup I am
seeing approx 102dB
of rejection from the TX to RX port and 97dB the
other way.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Scott Zimmerman
mailto:n3xcc%40repeater-builder.com> > wrote:
> Rich,
>
> The short answer is: You need to find a bigger
duplexer. Four 8" cans
> would work well such as a Wacom WP-641. You
could simply call and order
> one if Wacom was still in business. (RIP)
Unfortunately Tx/Rx bought
> them years ago for the name and to quash
competition. They can be found
> occasionally for around $600 or so on the used
market.
>
> Other alternatives are as follows:
> 1) You can use two antennas and split the 639
duplexer so that 2 cans
> are in series between the TX and the TX antenna,
and the other two are
> in series between the RX and the RX antenna.
Terry WX3M a list member is
> doing this with VERY good results on one of his
VHF machines. Of course
> this involves the expense of additional feedline
and a second antenna. I
> think you said you had this machine on an 80'
mast. 50' or so of
> vertical isolation coupled with the additional
isolation of splitting
> the duplexer *may* be enough isolation to get
rid of all the desense. TX
> goes on bottom, RX on top.
>
> 2) Buy additional Band Pass / Band Reject (BPBR)
cans. You can add these
> additional cans between the Tx and/or Rx and the
duplexer. These cans
> will give additional isolation. Even if you can
find just Pass or Notch
> cavities, tune them and put them in the correct
place.
>
> With both of the above options, you are looking
to add to the isolation
> between your transmitter and receiver. You'll
find you'll do best by
> adding cans to your transmitter that notch
side-band noise at your
> receiver's frequency. In other words, do what
you can to insure your
> receiver is not hearing your own transmitter's
sideband noise on it's
> input. Pass cans tuned to the TX frequency or
NOTCH cavities tuned to
> your *RX* frequency placed in the transmit line
are your best hope.
>
> Good luck,
> Scott
>
>
>
> Scott Zimmerman
> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
> 474 Barnett Road
> Boswell, PA 15531
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[NORM KNAPP]

Oh drat! I thought I was getting away with something :-)
I am about to start on a 6m mastr ii with 1 meg split. It is a 110 watt cont 
duty station I am converting to a repeater. I don't think the exciter is a pll, 
way too many cans on the board and small icom About how much isolation will 
I need there? I don't know if I have a preamp for this one or not... But if I 
do, I would try to run it.
73

- Original Message -
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wed Sep 08 23:08:38 2010
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

  


The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity
duplexer. If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing
desense. The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz offset,
reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like amount.

See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf

The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his
situation either. Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of
crunching it with only a 4-pack. Personally, I'd never run a preamp with
nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God bless...

A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in
part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7" versus
5"?).

--- Jeff WN3A


> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
> 
> 
> 
> I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II 
> running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no 
> desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is 
> this a miracle or typical? 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > 
> Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010 
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that 
> has four 5" 
> cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 
> dB spec is 
> more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, 
> assuming a 
> solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 
> 12 dB SINAD. On 
> a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, 
> which has six 8" 
> cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of RichardK 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 
> 
> Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer 
> as part of our 
> repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 
> 147.315. We have a 
> 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the 
> transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense 
> on the receive 
> side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to 
> around 20-50 
> watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where 
> people can get 
> into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter 
> power, "white 
> noise" begins to appear and the receive side starts to 
> desense again. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[DCFluX]

An additional 20dB of isolation can be realized by replacing the
antenna Tee connector with a circulator. Port A to B tuned to the TX
frequency, Port B to C tuned to the RX frequency. Connect TX to port
A, antenna to B, Receiver to C.

I'm using a set of WP-639 and with this setup I am seeing approx 102dB
of rejection from the TX to RX port and 97dB the other way.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Scott Zimmerman
 wrote:
> Rich,
>
> The short answer is: You need to find a bigger duplexer. Four 8" cans
> would work well such as a Wacom WP-641. You could simply call and order
> one if Wacom was still in business. (RIP) Unfortunately Tx/Rx bought
> them years ago for the name and to quash competition. They can be found
> occasionally for around $600 or so on the used market.
>
> Other alternatives are as follows:
> 1) You can use two antennas and split the 639 duplexer so that 2 cans
> are in series between the TX and the TX antenna, and the other two are
> in series between the RX and the RX antenna. Terry WX3M a list member is
> doing this with VERY good results on one of his VHF machines. Of course
> this involves the expense of additional feedline and a second antenna. I
> think you said you had this machine on an 80' mast. 50' or so of
> vertical isolation coupled with the additional isolation of splitting
> the duplexer *may* be enough isolation to get rid of all the desense. TX
> goes on bottom, RX on top.
>
> 2) Buy additional Band Pass / Band Reject (BPBR) cans. You can add these
> additional cans between the Tx and/or Rx and the duplexer. These cans
> will give additional isolation. Even if you can find just Pass or Notch
> cavities, tune them and put them in the correct place.
>
> With both of the above options, you are looking to add to the isolation
> between your transmitter and receiver. You'll find you'll do best by
> adding cans to your transmitter that notch side-band noise at your
> receiver's frequency. In other words, do what you can to insure your
> receiver is not hearing your own transmitter's sideband noise on it's
> input. Pass cans tuned to the TX frequency or NOTCH cavities tuned to
> your *RX* frequency placed in the transmit line are your best hope.
>
> Good luck,
> Scott
>
>
>
> Scott Zimmerman
> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
> 474 Barnett Road
> Boswell, PA 15531
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers for AllStar nodes to thus enable IRLP connections on AllStar system?

[Kris Kirby]

On Wed, 8 Sep 2010, Kent Johnson wrote:
> Bcc to 2010 VoIP Conference List
> 
> -Original Message- From: David Cameron (IRLP) 
> [mailto:dcame...@irlp.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:56 AM 
> To: Kent Johnson Subject: Re: Possible to purchase IRLP node numbers 
> for AllStar
> 
> Kent, the short answer is no. I have had far too many complaints about
> 
> people being brought into full duplex telephone calls and non-radio
> 
> endpoints due to Allstar nodes on IRLP.
> 
> The philosophy of IRLP is to keep radios on all ends of a link.
> 
> Dave Cameron
> 
> VE7LTD

I call BS.

--
Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
Disinformation Analyst

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Jeff DePolo]

The PLL exciter is why you're having such good success running a 4-cavity
duplexer.  If you had a PM exciter, chances are you'd be experiencing
desense.  The PLL exciter produces about 22 dB less noise at 600 kHz offset,
reducing the noise supression requirement of the duplexer by a like amount.


See: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pdf/GE_Isolation_Curves.pdf

The OP also mentioned he was using a preamp - that's not helping his
situation either.  Even with a good receiver he's probably on the edge of
crunching it with only a 4-pack.  Personally, I'd never run a preamp with
nothing but a 4-cavity duplexer on 2m, but if it works for you, God bless...

A Q202G gives more isolation than a WP639 from what I've seen/measured, in
part because the cavities are larger diameter (I think they're 7" versus
5"?).

--- Jeff WN3A
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 11:38 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
> 
>   
> 
> I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II 
> running 100 watts with pll exciter and GE preamp with no 
> desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away fed with LDF7-50A. Is 
> this a miracle or typical? 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
>  <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
>  <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > 
> Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010 
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that 
> has four 5" 
> cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 
> dB spec is 
> more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, 
> assuming a 
> solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 
> 12 dB SINAD. On 
> a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, 
> which has six 8" 
> cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug... 
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of RichardK 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com>  
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question 
> 
> Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer 
> as part of our 
> repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 
> 147.315. We have a 
> 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the 
> transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense 
> on the receive 
> side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to 
> around 20-50 
> watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where 
> people can get 
> into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter 
> power, "white 
> noise" begins to appear and the receive side starts to 
> desense again. All 
> the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and 
> all the same 
> wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated & 
> sheilded from the 
> transmitter & preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna 
> feed coax with 
> double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' 
> mast. The 
> duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as 
> to what we 
> could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with 
> the tuning of 
> the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Ken Arck]

At 08:21 PM 9/8/2010, n...@no6b.com wrote:




Replacing copper-braided coax with RG-214 or hardline is hardly a waste of
time.



<--Notice I said:

>More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax
>isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing.

I was assuming he wasn't running something along the lines of RG-8 
but I did think to qualify that.


Ken

--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Scott Zimmerman]

Rich,

The short answer is: You need to find a bigger duplexer. Four 8" cans 
would work well such as a Wacom WP-641. You could simply call and order 
one if Wacom was still in business. (RIP) Unfortunately Tx/Rx bought 
them years ago for the name and to quash competition. They can be found 
occasionally for around $600 or so on the used market.

Other alternatives are as follows:
1) You can use two antennas and split the 639 duplexer so that 2 cans 
are in series between the TX and the TX antenna, and the other two are 
in series between the RX and the RX antenna. Terry WX3M a list member is 
doing this with VERY good results on one of his VHF machines. Of course 
this involves the expense of additional feedline and a second antenna. I 
think you said you had this machine on an 80' mast. 50' or so of 
vertical isolation coupled with the additional isolation of splitting 
the duplexer *may* be enough isolation to get rid of all the desense. TX 
goes on bottom, RX on top.

2) Buy additional Band Pass / Band Reject (BPBR) cans. You can add these 
additional cans between the Tx and/or Rx and the duplexer. These cans 
will give additional isolation. Even if you can find just Pass or Notch 
cavities, tune them and put them in the correct place.

With both of the above options, you are looking to add to the isolation 
between your transmitter and receiver. You'll find you'll do best by 
adding cans to your transmitter that notch side-band noise at your 
receiver's frequency. In other words, do what you can to insure your 
receiver is not hearing your own transmitter's sideband noise on it's 
input. Pass cans tuned to the TX frequency or NOTCH cavities tuned to 
your *RX* frequency placed in the transmit line are your best hope.

Good luck,
Scott



Scott Zimmerman
Amateur Radio Call N3XCC
474 Barnett Road
Boswell, PA 15531

On 9/8/2010 9:52 PM, Richard Kelly wrote:
>
>
> Hello again Ken,
>
> Thank you for replying with more info, we appreciate it. My email
> address if you want to get off this posting is w2...@arrl.net
> 
>
> How would we go about providing MORE isolation than what we have done so
> far?
>
> Rich Kelly W2RRK

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[NORM KNAPP]

I got a set of 4 sinclair cans, like a Q202g on a GE mastr II running 100 watts 
with pll exciter and GE preamp with no desense. Antenna is roughly 300' away 
fed with LDF7-50A. Is this a miracle or typical?

- Original Message -
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wed Sep 08 20:10:44 2010
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

  

I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5"
cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is
more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a
solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On
a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8"
cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug...

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of RichardK
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our
repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a
600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the
transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive
side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50
watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get
into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, "white
noise" begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All
the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same
wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated & sheilded from the
transmitter & preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with
double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The
duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we
could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of
the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[no6b]

At 9/8/2010 18:24, you wrote:
>At 06:18 PM 9/8/2010, Richard Kelly wrote:
> >
> >
> >  We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod
> > outside the shack instead of the single one we use now.  We will
> > also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed
> > line with hard line.
>
>
><--That is a complete waste of time as that is not the problem. Your
>duplexer simply cannot provide enough isolation for the power level
>you're trying to run.
>
>More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax
>isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing.

Replacing copper-braided coax with RG-214 or hardline is hardly a waste of 
time.  The duplexer isolation may not be quite enough, but that can be 
easily remedied by adding an extra pass cavity to the TX.  Just another 10 
to 15 dB of TX noise suppression is likely all you need.  RG-8, RG-213 or 
LMR-400 antenna feed, OTOH, will make any duplexer moot due to all the 
desense it will generate, sooner or later.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Richard Kelly]

Hello again Ken,
 
Thank you for replying with more info, we appreciate it.  My email address if 
you want to get off this posting is w2...@arrl.net 
 
How would we go about providing MORE isolation than what we have done so far?  
 
Rich Kelly W2RRK

 x


 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> From: ah...@ah6le.net
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:24:41 -0700
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
> 
> At 06:18 PM 9/8/2010, Richard Kelly wrote:
> >
> >
> > We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod 
> > outside the shack instead of the single one we use now. We will 
> > also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed 
> > line with hard line.
> 
> 
> <--That is a complete waste of time as that is not the problem. Your 
> duplexer simply cannot provide enough isolation for the power level 
> you're trying to run.
> 
> More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax 
> isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing.
> 
> Ken
> 
> --
> President and CTO - Arcom Communications
> Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
> http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
> Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
> we offer complete repeater packages!
> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
> http://www.irlp.net
> "We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Joe]

 I'm afraid your wasting your time.  According to the document for the 
Wacom 639 duplexer, this is what it says:


MIN. FREQ. SPACING: 600 KHz
POWER: TO 200 WATTS

Notice that it says "TO 200 watts".  That would be if you were at 2MHz 
of spacing or more.  You are only at 600KHz spacing, so you power level 
will be much less.  I know it's not what you want to hear, but I believe 
you have the wrong duplexer for a 100 watt solid state repeater.


73, Joe, K1ike

On 9/8/2010 9:18 PM, Richard Kelly wrote:



Good evening Eric,

Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt 
range, the receive opens way up like it should.  However, according to 
the spec sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 
200 watts.  So, again, not sure what's going on.  We will be trying 
other things such as adding a second ground rod outside the shack 
instead of the single one we use now.  We will also try isolating the 
amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard line.  Thank 
you very much.  We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow.


Rich Kelly, W2RRK

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Rich,

 

Eric speaks the truth.  The will HANDLE 200 watts without arcing, etc, but
do not provide nearly enough isolation at 600 KHz spacing to handle 100
watts.  For a 35 watt transmitter, I run cans that provide around 96 dB of
isolation. the 85 dB your cans can provide just ain't gonna cut it. 

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Kelly
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:19 PM
To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

 

  

Good evening Eric,
 
Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range,
the receive opens way up like it should.  However, according to the spec
sheets regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts.  So,
again, not sure what's going on.  We will be trying other things such as
adding a second ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we
use now.  We will also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the
coax feed line with hard line.  Thank you very much.  We will be contacting
Wacom directly tomorrow.
 
Rich Kelly, W2RRK

 x


 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> From: wb6...@verizon.net
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:10:44 -0700
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
> 
> I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5"
> cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is
> more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a
> solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD.
On
> a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8"
> cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug...
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
> 
> 
> 
> Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our
> repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a
> 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the
> transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the
receive
> side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50
> watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get
> into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, "white
> noise" begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All
> the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same
> wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated & sheilded from the
> transmitter & preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax
with
> double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The
> duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we
> could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of
> the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Ken Arck]

At 06:18 PM 9/8/2010, Richard Kelly wrote:
>
>
>  We will be trying other things such as adding a second ground rod 
> outside the shack instead of the single one we use now.  We will 
> also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed 
> line with hard line.


<--That is a complete waste of time as that is not the problem. Your 
duplexer simply cannot provide enough isolation for the power level 
you're trying to run.

More grounding and replacing coax with hardline (unless your coax 
isn't doubleshield to start with) will buy you nothing.

Ken

--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Richard Kelly]

Good evening Eric,
 
Maybe this is why when the trasmit power is dropped to the 20-50 watt range, 
the receive opens way up like it should.  However, according to the spec sheets 
regarding the Wacom SP-639 Duplexer, it is rated for 200 watts.  So, again, not 
sure what's going on.  We will be trying other things such as adding a second 
ground rod outside the shack instead of the single one we use now.  We will 
also try isolating the amp some more and replacing the coax feed line with hard 
line.  Thank you very much.  We will be contacting Wacom directly tomorrow.
 
Rich Kelly, W2RRK

 x


 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> From: wb6...@verizon.net
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 18:10:44 -0700
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
> 
> I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5"
> cans. According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is
> more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a
> solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD. On
> a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8"
> cans. BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug...
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
> 
> 
> 
> Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our
> repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a
> 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the
> transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive
> side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50
> watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get
> into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, "white
> noise" begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All
> the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same
> wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated & sheilded from the
> transmitter & preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with
> double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The
> duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we
> could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of
> the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Eric Lemmon]

I'm not surprised- you're asking too much of a duplexer that has four 5"
cans.  According to my CommShop program, a duplexer with an 80 dB spec is
more suitable with transmitter power in the 10-15 watt range, assuming a
solid-state PA and a receiver sensitivity around 0.35 uV at 12 dB SINAD.  On
a 100 watt repeater, I'd expect something like a WP-642, which has six 8"
cans.  BTDT, got the T-shirt and mug...

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

  

Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our
repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a
600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the
transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive
side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50
watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get
into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, "white
noise" begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All
the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same
wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated & sheilded from the
transmitter & preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with
double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The
duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we
could look into next? Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of
the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Kevin Custer]

  On 9/8/2010 6:11 PM, RichardK wrote:
> Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our 
> repeater system.  Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315.  We have a 
> 600kHz (+) offset.  Very simply, our main problem is when we run the 
> transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive 
> side of things.  When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 
> watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get 
> into the repeater.  As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, "white 
> noise" begins to appear and the receive side starts to desense again.  All 
> the cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same 
> wavelength in length.  We have the duplexer seperated&  sheilded from the 
> transmitter&  preamp parts.  We have not replaced the antenna feed coax with 
> double sheilded coax yet.  Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast.  The 
> duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we 
> could look into next?  Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of 
> the duplexer receive cans.  Thank you very much.


The Wacom WP-639 is insufficient for 100 solid state watts, unless you 
run a GE MASTR II PLL exciter and no preamp.

You will either need to replace the duplexer with another unit capable 
of properly isolating 100 solid state watts, add additional filters, 
change to a less noisy transmitter and amplifier (tubes are better - no 
I'm not kidding).

Kevin Custer - W3KKC

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Richard Kelly]

 i'm at work right now--I will get that info tomorrow!!
 
Rich K
W2RRK

 x


 


To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
From: aseyb...@andrewseybold.com
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:38:49 -0700
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question












What repeater are you running? Is it a GE Mastr II by chance?
 
Andy
 


From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question
 
  



Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of our 
repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We have a 600kHz 
(+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run the transmitter at 
full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the receive side of things. 
When we drop the transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive 
side opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. As we 
begin to bring up the transmitter power, "white noise" begins to appear and the 
receive side starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to 
double sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the 
duplexer seperated & sheilded from the transmitter & preamp parts. We have not 
replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a 
Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any 
suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe the problem 
is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank you very much.




  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK

[Jeff KP3FT]

Hi George,
If you don't mind going to the trouble, that would be great.  Just verifying if 
the pin number/functions are the same as the Moxy would be good because I 
already have the Moxy pinout.
73
Jeff KP3FT

--- On Wed, 9/8/10, George Henry  wrote:

From: George Henry 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, 
D51TSA4000BK
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 7:45 PM







 



  



  
  
  I think I have a Maxar 80 manual at the office...  I will check tomorrow 

morning.  I think the only real difference in the connectors is that the 

Maxar 80 connector has 2 large pins at the top for power, while the Moxy has 

all pins the same size, and uses the first 2 in the 2nd row for power.  All 

the metering, audio, and PTT pins are the same...  I *THINK*...



- Original Message - 

From: "Jeff KP3FT" 

To: 

Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, 

D51TSA4000BK



Hi George,

Thanks for the reply. I had downloaded the diagram for the Moxy earlier from 

that website, but discovered the connector is different for the Maxar 80. 

Not sure if the pinout #s are the same though. I could spend the money and 

get a manual, but that is another 20 dollars and more time, plus I don't 

think I need much information really, since the new target frequency is not 

much higher than the original frequency and may not need retuning. It's for 

a beacon transmitter, so RX tuning isn't necessary.

Jeff KP3FT



--- On Wed, 9/8/10, George Henry  wrote:



From: George Henry 

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, 

D51TSA4000BK

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 3:40 PM



I know that they are available on the Batlabs site... try



http://www.batlabs.com/nosynth.html and scroll down to the Moxy section. I



believe that the pinouts for the Maxar, Maxar 80, and Moxy were all the 

same.



George, KA3HSW / WQGJ



>



>From: KP3FT 



>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com



>Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 1:58:15 PM



>Subject: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80,



>D51TSA4000BK



>



>



>Hi all,



>Does anyone have a scanned schematic and/or a pinout diagram for a Maxar 80



>lowband? I moving one that is presently at 49.520 MHz, up to 50.065 MHz, 

>but



>have no idea what the pins are for PTT, etc. There is no microphone or 

>other



>cables that came with the radio. Thanks for any help.



>Jeff KP3FT



>






 





 



  






  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Ken Arck]

At 04:38 PM 9/8/2010, Andrew Seybold wrote:
>
>
>What repeater are you running? Is it a GE Mastr II by chance?
>
>


<---You hinting at the issue of Mastr II amp going spurious when the 
power is turned down too far?

Ken

--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Ken Arck]

At 03:11 PM 9/8/2010, RichardK wrote:
>
>
>Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part 
>of our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 
>147.315. We have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem 
>is when we run the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a 
>HUGE desense on the receive side of things. When we drop the 
>transmitter power level to around 20-50 watts, the receive side 
>opens WAY up to a large area where people can get into the repeater. 
>As we begin to bring up the transmitter power, "white noise" begins 
>to appear and the receive side starts to desense again. All the 
>cables have been switched to double sheilded cables and all the same 
>wavelength in length. We have the duplexer seperated & sheilded from 
>the transmitter & preamp parts. We have not replaced the antenna 
>feed coax with double sheilded coax yet. Antenna is a Hustler G7 
>atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just over 1 year ago. Any 
>suggestions as to what we could look into next? Some of us believe 
>the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer receive cans. Thank 
>you very much.

<---The WP-639 is spec'd at only 80 db of isolation @ a 600 kHz 
split. At 100 watts, that simply isn't enough to prevent desense. You 
need more isolation

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net
"We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

[Andrew Seybold]

What repeater are you running? Is it a GE Mastr II by chance?

 

Andy

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of RichardK
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:11 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wacom WP-639 Duplexer question

 

  

Good evening, our club has a Wacom WP-639 four can duplexer as part of
our repeater system. Input Fq is 147.915 and Output Fq is 147.315. We
have a 600kHz (+) offset. Very simply, our main problem is when we run
the transmitter at full power 100 watts, there is a HUGE desense on the
receive side of things. When we drop the transmitter power level to
around 20-50 watts, the receive side opens WAY up to a large area where
people can get into the repeater. As we begin to bring up the
transmitter power, "white noise" begins to appear and the receive side
starts to desense again. All the cables have been switched to double
sheilded cables and all the same wavelength in length. We have the
duplexer seperated & sheilded from the transmitter & preamp parts. We
have not replaced the antenna feed coax with double sheilded coax yet.
Antenna is a Hustler G7 atop a 55' mast. The duplexer was retuned just
over 1 year ago. Any suggestions as to what we could look into next?
Some of us believe the problem is with the tuning of the duplexer
receive cans. Thank you very much.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program

[Gary W. Gibbs]

That has happened to me twice and I read it then it would program.  Sorry it 
didn't help you. 
NIMS: 100 200 300 400 700 800 
Arrl  Extra Class VE 
HAZ MAT- A O 
sent from my blackberry mobile device 

-Original Message-
From: "wspx472" 
Sender: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:32:58 
To: 
Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program

That's what I was trying to do.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Gary W. Gibbs "  wrote:
>
> Read the repeater first 
> NIMS: 100 200 300 400 700 800 
> Arrl  Extra Class VE 
> HAZ MAT- A O 
> sent from my blackberry mobile device 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "wspx472" 
> Sender: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:24:15 
> To: 
> Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program
> 
> I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the 
> correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was 
> communication problems or it quickly flashes "Done!" but hasn't actually read 
> the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK

[Jeff KP3FT]

Hi George,
Thanks for the reply.  I had downloaded the diagram for the Moxy earlier from 
that website, but discovered the connector is different for the Maxar 80.  Not 
sure if the pinout #s are the same though.  I could spend the money and get a 
manual, but that is another 20 dollars and more time, plus I don't think I need 
much information really, since the new target frequency is not much higher than 
the original frequency and may not need retuning.  It's for a beacon 
transmitter, so RX tuning isn't necessary.  
Jeff KP3FT

--- On Wed, 9/8/10, George Henry  wrote:

From: George Henry 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, 
D51TSA4000BK
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 3:40 PM







 



  



  
  
  I know that they are available on the Batlabs site...  try 

http://www.batlabs.com/nosynth.html and scroll down to the Moxy section.  I 

believe that the pinouts for the Maxar, Maxar 80, and Moxy were all the same.



George, KA3HSW / WQGJ



>

>From: KP3FT 

>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

>Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 1:58:15 PM

>Subject: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, 

>D51TSA4000BK

>

>  

>Hi all,

>Does anyone have a scanned schematic and/or a pinout diagram for a Maxar 80 

>lowband? I moving one that is presently at 49.520 MHz, up to 50.065 MHz, but 

>have no idea what the pins are for PTT, etc. There is no microphone or other 

>cables that came with the radio. Thanks for any help.

>Jeff KP3FT

>






 





 



  






  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, D51TSA4000BK

[George Henry]

I know that they are available on the Batlabs site...  try 
http://www.batlabs.com/nosynth.html and scroll down to the Moxy section.  I 
believe that the pinouts for the Maxar, Maxar 80, and Moxy were all the same.

George, KA3HSW / WQGJ


>
>From: KP3FT 
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 1:58:15 PM
>Subject: [Repeater-Builder] schematic and/or pinout diagram, Maxar 80, 
>D51TSA4000BK
>
>  
>Hi all,
>Does anyone have a scanned schematic and/or a pinout diagram for a Maxar 80 
>lowband? I moving one that is presently at 49.520 MHz, up to 50.065 MHz, but 
>have no idea what the pins are for PTT, etc. There is no microphone or other 
>cables that came with the radio. Thanks for any help.
>Jeff KP3FT
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program

[Maire-Radios]

the last time that happened to me I needed a new cable.


  - Original Message - 
  From: wspx472 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:24 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program



  I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the 
correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was 
communication problems or it quickly flashes "Done!" but hasn't actually read 
the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?



  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program

[Gary W. Gibbs]

Read the repeater first 
NIMS: 100 200 300 400 700 800 
Arrl  Extra Class VE 
HAZ MAT- A O 
sent from my blackberry mobile device 

-Original Message-
From: "wspx472" 
Sender: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:24:15 
To: 
Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Can't get Vertex VXR5000 to program

I got this to work before but now, no joy. I am using CE8 software, have the 
correct cable, and an older DOS PC. I get either a box saying there was 
communication problems or it quickly flashes "Done!" but hasn't actually read 
the repeater. Is there some special trick I have forgotten?

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers

[Chuck Kelsey]

More likely he had the radio programmed wrong.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "MCH" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with 
more questions - Thanks for the answers


> His antenna could be in a null. It happens, as Murphy is a ham.
>
> Joe M.
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers

[Thomas Oliver]

 I agree. The users would not even notice if you cut the power in half. 
One 2 meter repeater we took over was running on the 10 watt exciter 
with the amp bypassed for I don't know how long.  The caretaker before 
we got it bypassed the amp because of desense or intermod or self 
oscillation issues, we used to have some high powered VHF paging 
transmitters close by that were exactly 600 Khz apart and no circulator, 
We are now blessed because they moved to 900.


It was only when were replacing the functioning repeater we discovered 
the amp was bypassed, He never told anyone.


tom

On 9/7/2010 11:50 PM, Glenn (Butch) Kanvick wrote:



Hi John.
Sometimes you might not want to tel the others what you do to the 
repeater, then they cannot complain about any adjustments that you make.

Butch, KE7FEL/r

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:12 PM, W3ML > wrote:


Thanks to everyone for their comments and answers about my questions.

I did turn it back so I am sure someone will say something. Once
when a ham said he could not hit it, I drove over and sat outside
his house with a 25 watt radio and brought it up with an S8 signal.
It seems when a repeater goes up anywhere, someone will complain
about something to do with it.

Thanks and 73
John, W3ML

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers

[Glenn (Butch) Kanvick]

Hi John.
Sometimes you might not want to tel the others what you do to the repeater,
then they cannot complain about any adjustments that you make.

Butch, KE7FEL/r

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 4:12 PM, W3ML  wrote:

>
>
> Thanks to everyone for their comments and answers about my questions.
>
> I did turn it back so I am sure someone will say something. Once when a ham
> said he could not hit it, I drove over and sat outside his house with a 25
> watt radio and brought it up with an S8 signal.
> It seems when a repeater goes up anywhere, someone will complain about
> something to do with it.
>
> Thanks and 73
> John, W3ML
>
> 
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions - Thanks for the answers

[MCH]

His antenna could be in a null. It happens, as Murphy is a ham.

Joe M.

W3ML wrote:
> Thanks to everyone for their comments and answers about my questions.
> 
> I did turn it back so I am sure someone will say something. Once when a ham 
> said he could not hit it, I drove over and sat outside his house with a 25 
> watt radio and brought it up with an S8 signal.
> It seems  when a repeater goes up anywhere, someone will complain about 
> something to do with it.
> 
> 
> Thanks and 73
> John, W3ML
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] To DVP or not to DVP

[Jeff DePolo]

If you have a nearby first adjacent (especially at 20 kHz), you might be
better off with a standard receiver.  Might be worth measuring it and
comparing it against a standard receiver - I'd be curious to hear the
results as I've never done that test myself.

--- Jeff WN3A

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 5:45 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] To DVP or not to DVP
> 
>   
> 
> Hmmm... I didn't realize the DVP has a wider IF. I gather DVP 
> requires up to 6 Khz of audio. So now I'm thinking that this 
> receiver is not suitable for my busy hill (Santiago Peak). 
> What do you think?
> 
> --
> Tim
> :wq
> 
> On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote:
> 
> > The SP docs show it being a DVP station. DVP receivers have 
> wider (and
> > flatter) IF filtering than standard Micor Sensitron 
> receivers. They need a
> > flatter IF passband to decode DVP properly. I'm wondering 
> if that's why the
> > 20 dBQ reading comes out higher than normal. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Moto Micor 123.0 Vibrasender

[Mike Morris]

At 09:30 AM 09/07/10, you wrote:
>Anyone help me out with this part?
>
>Terry
>wx3m.te...@gmail.com

What model number?

There are several different physical packages.

If you don't know the reed number, can you tell us what radio?

Mike WA6ILQ

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Tim Sawyer]

Yes, meter 4 shows the channel element is on frequency.

If by IF alignment you mean injecting 11.7 Mhz and setting meter 4 to zero, yes 
I checked that. It was not far off. 

--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 7, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Milt wrote:

>  Is the meter 4 circuit showing that the channel element is on frequency, and 
> have you checked the alignment of the IF? 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Milt]

Sinad is done with a 1000 Hz tone at 3KHz deviation and requires a meter that 
can notch out the 1K tone and measure the remaining noise.
20dBQ is done with no modulation  2 Vac of sq noise w/ no carrier then generate 
unmodulated carrier till the ACVM indicates 0.2 Vac

A major difference in the two usually meant an alignment issue or some sort of 
problem in the back end of the receiver.  Is the meter 4 circuit showing that 
the channel element is on frequency, and have you checked the alignment of the 
IF?  

Proponets of the Sinad method claimed that their way of doing the alignment 
would actually improve the overall sensitivity since the radio was being tested 
while receiving audio.  

Milt
N3LTQ


  - Original Message - 
  From: Tim Sawyer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity




  I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting 
to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the 
volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I 
missing something?


  --
  Tim
  :wq


  On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:


 spec is 0.5
uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting
method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 1 2 dB SINAD method





  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Eric Lemmon]

Jeff,

The DVP Micor uses a TRN8095A A&S board, while the non-DVP stations use the
TRN6006A board.  The only differences involve the values of C231, C232,
C233, C234, R234, and R237 which is used only on the DVP board.  These
components are all clustered at Test Points 12, 13, 14, and 15 on the
schematic, and appear to affect only the squelch action.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:20 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Jeff DePolo
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

  

Yes, it is a DVP station. I have the DVP manual and I just checked the spec.
It's the same < 0.5 uV for 20 dBQ. The test procedure does say to load the
speaker. I'll give that a try tomorrow. 
--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote:

> The SP docs show it being a DVP station. DVP receivers have wider (and
> flatter) IF filtering than standard Micor Sensitron receivers. They need a
> flatter IF passband to decode DVP properly. I'm wondering if that's why
the
> 20 dBQ reading comes out higher than normal. I *thought* the A/S board was
> the same between DVP and standard stations, so the AF circuitry should be
> the same between the discriminator and the speaker terminals.
> 
> --- Jeff
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Tim Sawyer [mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com <mailto:tisawyer%40gmail.com>
] 
>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:04 PM
>> To: Jeff DePolo
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
>> 
>> Here you go Jeff. Let me know what you see. 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Tim Sawyer]

Yes, it is a DVP station. I have the DVP manual and I just checked the spec. 
It's the same < 0.5 uV for 20 dBQ. The test procedure does say to load the 
speaker. I'll give that a try tomorrow. 
--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote:

> The SP docs show it being a DVP station.  DVP receivers have wider (and
> flatter) IF filtering than standard Micor Sensitron receivers.  They need a
> flatter IF passband to decode DVP properly.  I'm wondering if that's why the
> 20 dBQ reading comes out higher than normal.  I *thought* the A/S board was
> the same between DVP and standard stations, so the AF circuitry should be
> the same between the discriminator and the speaker terminals.
> 
>   --- Jeff
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Tim Sawyer [mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:04 PM
>> To: Jeff DePolo
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
>> 
>> Here you go Jeff. Let me know what you see. 
>> 
>> 
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Larry Wagoner]

At 08:05 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>You have it right- the 19D424089G1 PA is rated at 60 watts over the 132-174
>MHz band, with an external relay, and is found in the Mastr Executive II
>radio. LBI-30253 covers it:
>
>
>The symptoms you describe may also be caused by a problem in the exciter,
>the relay, or the system control board. Have you already discounted these
>possible culprits?

Nothing eliminated yet.
This radio was doing OK - and developed this problem lately.
We have noticed variable output, "garbling" of the audio, and what 
appears to me from a remote mobile location to be momentary carrier drops.

The garbled audio is accompanied by a major drop in output, while the 
momentary carrier drops look almost like someone is letting go of the 
key were we working simplex. It lasts only a moment before coming back up.



Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
PRCARC Training Officer
PIC - MS SECT ARRL 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Larry Wagoner]

At 07:41 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>This is either an Exec II or a Mastr II - two different radios. The Exec II
>mobile is 'gray' and has a plastic, non-movable handle. The Mastr II mobile
>has a foldable handle. Which one do you have?

OK - That would make this an Exec II - converted by MCC in Florida.



Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
PRCARC Training Officer
PIC - MS SECT ARRL 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Larry Wagoner]

At 07:52 PM 9/6/2010, you wrote:
>I believe you are talking about an Exec II.

Yes ...

>Several places to check before replacing the PA.
>A common problem is the jumper between the exciter and the PA. The RCA
>connectors sometimes go intermittent. Also, if the TR relay hasn't been
>jumpered, it could have gone intermittent.

OK - will check the jumper.
This was a conversion by MCC in Florida ...



Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
PRCARC Training Officer
PIC - MS SECT ARRL 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Eric Lemmon]

Larry,

You have it right- the 19D424089G1 PA is rated at 60 watts over the 132-174
MHz band, and is found in the Mastr Executive II radio.  LBI-30253 covers
it:


The symptoms you describe may also be caused by a problem in the exciter or
the system control board.  Have you already discounted these possible
culprits?

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wagoner
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 5:27 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

  



>Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason 
>to suspect the PA in our repeater.

It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier, 
distorted audio, varying output, etc.) ..

I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II 
mobile radio conversion.
If I have the wrong board number, please advise ...

Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
PRCARC Training Officer
PIC - MS SECT ARRL 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Eric Lemmon]

Larry,

You have it right- the 19D424089G1 PA is rated at 60 watts over the 132-174
MHz band, with an external relay, and is found in the Mastr Executive II
radio.  LBI-30253 covers it:


The symptoms you describe may also be caused by a problem in the exciter,
the relay, or the system control board.  Have you already discounted these
possible culprits?

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wagoner
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 5:27 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

>Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason 
>to suspect the PA in our repeater.

It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier, 
distorted audio, varying output, etc.) ..

I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II 
mobile radio conversion.
If I have the wrong board number, please advise ...

Larry Wagoner - N5WLW

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Chuck Kelsey]

Larry -

This is either an Exec II or a Mastr II - two different radios. The Exec II 
mobile is 'gray' and has a plastic, non-movable handle. The Mastr II mobile 
has a foldable handle. Which one do you have?

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Wagoner" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1


>
>
>
>>Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason
>>to suspect the PA in our repeater.
>
> It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier,
> distorted audio, varying output, etc.) ..
>
> I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II
> mobile radio conversion.
> If I have the wrong board number, please advise ...
>
>
>
> Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
> PRCARC Training Officer
> PIC - MS SECT ARRL
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Ian Wells]

Guys .I have a similar problem with 2 repeaters but its in the receiver side
.The maxon sm4450uhf receiver is tuned to the best it can be on the service
monitor -115db and the bpbr duplexer is tuned to correct specs as far as I
can see on the hp8921a .I have also tested the repeater in duplex mode into
the service monitor and all good -115db no static, power out  good  
Replaced the antenna and interconnecting cable is heliax and its  all good 
I will be testing the antenna system with a new MFJ-269 antenna tester  to
make sure its ok .Transmission is a1 full distance but when a transmission
is sent the repeater its good up close fast to come on but  is slow to come
on with distant stations.  We are using a ctcss tone which I will be
checking to see if it is correct .Saying that I should try it without the
ctcss and see if it is better without the ctcss detection.

Thank You ,Ian Wells
Kerinvale Comaudio,
3A Murchison Street, Biloela.4715
Ph 0749922449 Mb 0409159932 
Hm 0749922574 Fx 0749922767
www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
 
---Original Message---
 
From: Jeff DePolo
Date: 7/09/2010 8:50:36 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with
more questions
 
  

Or speed up the CWID one or two WPM, or change to a slightly higher tone
frequency. Top 40 stations sometimes still do this trick (pitching up their
CD players or automation system playback speed maybe 1%) - some PD's are
convinced that it improves ratings for one reason or another...

--- Jeff

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:38 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer 
> SOLVED with more questions
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Put it back to the original output. I always like 
> to turn my stuff back at least 10%.
> 
> Turn the beep tone up in volume, tell them you increased the 
> power. see what they say.
> 
> 73, Joe, K1ike
> 
> On 9/6/2010 5:04 PM, Paul Plack wrote: 
> 
> John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it 
> has nothing to do with hardware...
> 
> If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier.
> 
> If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 
> 10% faster, users will ask you what's changed on the 
> repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter output 3 
> dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage.
> 
> Tell him guys...am I wrong?
> 
> ;^)
> 
> 73,
> Paul, AE4KR
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: Tim Sawyer <mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com> 
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power 
> out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



 <>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1

[Chuck Kelsey]

I believe you are talking about an Exec II.

Several places to check before replacing the PA.

A common problem is the jumper between the exciter and the PA. The RCA 
connectors sometimes go intermittent. Also, if the TR relay hasn't been 
jumpered, it could have gone intermittent.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Wagoner" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 8:27 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 19D424089G1


>
>
>
>>Anyone have one of the above they wish to part with? We have reason
>>to suspect the PA in our repeater.
>
> It has developed various intermittent behaviors (dropping carrier,
> distorted audio, varying output, etc.) ..
>
> I believe this to be the 60 watt PA for the GE Mastr II Exec II
> mobile radio conversion.
> If I have the wrong board number, please advise ...
>
>
>
> Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
> PRCARC Training Officer
> PIC - MS SECT ARRL
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3117 - Release Date: 09/06/10 
02:35:00

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Eric Lemmon]

Readers interested in this thread may find the following articles to be
relevant:




73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 4:00 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

  

I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke 77, a "Sinadder
3" (SINAD & AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c. Pretty much same results with all.
That is 20 db quieting around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the
recommended meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the quieting
reading up some unknown meter problems?


Yes, measuring on the speaker terminals with no speaker. The Sinadder and
8924c have internal speakers but I suspect they are not loading the
receiver. 

Yes. The Micor came with a 3 page document detailing SP71 modifications.
Would you like me to scan and email you a copy?

--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote:


Not all voltmeters behave the same with complex AC waveforms (such
as
noise). Some of my Flukes are inaccurate at higher AC frequencies
(like
above a few hundred Hz) - and they're spec'ed that way. What kind of
meter
are you using, and where are you measuring (speaker terminals is
where you
should be measuring from)?

Do you know what, exactly, the SP features/modifications are on your
SP
Micor?

--- Jeff WN3A

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Jeff DePolo]

> I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke 
> 77, a "Sinadder 3" (SINAD & AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c. 
> Pretty much same results with all. That is 20 db quieting 
> around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the recommended 
> meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the 
> quieting reading up some unknown meter problems?

Very odd.  I'd probably want to load the speaker PA; I usually just leave
the speaker connected or use a load box.  
 
> Yes. The Micor came with a 3 page document detailing SP71 
> modifications. Would you like me to scan and email you a copy?

I'd be curious to see if any of the mods would affect AF response, IF
bandwidth, or anything else that could be throwing off your numbers.

IIRC, older Micor manuals didn't even have a 12 dB SINAD sensitivity spec,
only a 20 dBQ spec/test procedure.  That's what I remember always using as a
pass/fail reference.  Of course, SINAD is a better test, but you should
expect an in-band Micor to still meet the quieting spec.

--- Jeff WN3A

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Tim Sawyer]

I have tried with 3 volt meters and 2 SINAD meters: a Fluke 77, a "Sinadder 3" 
(SINAD & AC voltmeter) and a HP8924c. Pretty much same results with all. That 
is 20 db quieting around 0.7 uV, SINAD around 0.35. So what's the recommended 
meter? Should I trust the SINAD reading and chock the quieting reading up some 
unknown meter problems?

Yes, measuring on the speaker terminals with no speaker. The Sinadder and 8924c 
have internal speakers but I suspect they are not loading the receiver. 

Yes. The Micor came with a 3 page document detailing SP71 modifications. Would 
you like me to scan and email you a copy?

--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 3:30 PM, Jeff DePolo wrote:

> Not all voltmeters behave the same with complex AC waveforms (such as
> noise). Some of my Flukes are inaccurate at higher AC frequencies (like
> above a few hundred Hz) - and they're spec'ed that way. What kind of meter
> are you using, and where are you measuring (speaker terminals is where you
> should be measuring from)?
> 
> Do you know what, exactly, the SP features/modifications are on your SP
> Micor?
> 
> --- Jeff WN3A

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Jeff DePolo]

Or speed up the CWID one or two WPM, or change to a slightly higher tone
frequency.  Top 40 stations sometimes still do this trick (pitching up their
CD players or automation system playback speed maybe 1%) - some PD's are
convinced that it improves ratings for one reason or another...

--- Jeff

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:38 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer 
> SOLVED with more questions
> 
>   
> 
> I agree.  Put it back to the original output.  I always like 
> to turn my stuff back at least 10%.
> 
> Turn the beep tone up in volume, tell them you increased the 
> power.  see what they say.
> 
> 73, Joe, K1ike
> 
> On 9/6/2010 5:04 PM, Paul Plack wrote: 
> 
>   John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it 
> has nothing to do with hardware...
>
>   If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier.
>
>   If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 
> 10% faster, users will ask you what's changed on the 
> repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter output 3 
> dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage.
>
>   Tell him guys...am I wrong?
>
>   ;^)
>
>   73,
>   Paul, AE4KR
>
>
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Tim Sawyer <mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com>  
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power 
> out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Joe]

 I agree.  Put it back to the original output.  I always like to turn 
my stuff back at least 10%.


Turn the beep tone up in volume, tell them you increased the power.  see 
what they say.


73, Joe, K1ike

On 9/6/2010 5:04 PM, Paul Plack wrote:



John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to 
do with hardware...

If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier.
If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users 
will ask you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've 
increased the transmitter output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have 
noticed the improved coverage.

Tell him guys...am I wrong?
;^)
73,
Paul, AE4KR

- Original Message -
*From:* Tim Sawyer <mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com>
*To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer
SOLVED with more questions

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Jeff DePolo]

Not all voltmeters behave the same with complex AC waveforms (such as
noise).  Some of my Flukes are inaccurate at higher AC frequencies (like
above a few hundred Hz) - and they're spec'ed that way.  What kind of meter
are you using, and where are you measuring (speaker terminals is where you
should be measuring from)?

Do you know what, exactly, the SP features/modifications are on your SP
Micor?

--- Jeff WN3A

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 6:07 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
> 
>   
> 
> The Micor book says less than 0.5 uV for 20db quieting or 
> 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. So the two are in fact equivalent. I 
> get better than 0.35 for 12 db SINAD but I don't measure 0.5 
> for 20 db quieting. I must be doing something wrong.
> 
> --
> Tim
> :wq
> 
> On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting
>   John VE3AMZ
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Tim Sawyer <mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com>  
>   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
> 
>   I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But 
> that looks about 10 db quieting to me. What I typically do is 
> open the squelch with no signal and set the volume to 2 Vac 
> then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am 
> I missing something? 
> 
>   
>   --
>   Tim
>   :wq
> 
>   On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:
> 
> 
>spec is 0.5
>   uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a 
> preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting
>   method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively 
> when using the 12 dB SINAD method
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Paul speaks the truth.

 

I had one fellow who always insisted something was wrong with the repeater
when the foliage came on the trees every spring.  I tried to explain to him
that the leaves and humidity were attenuating the signal and that it was
just a fact of life for the fringe-area users.  Nonetheless, he insisted
that the power was down or the VSWR was up.

 

After arguing (nicely) with this fellow for a couple of weeks, I programmed
a voice message on the repeater that I could call at-will and then told him
I'd installed a wattmeter at the site that interfaced with the controller.
I then demonstrated it to him.  The message read "The forward power is 35
watts and the reflected power is 0.7 watts".  With this new 'feature'
installed, he turned his attention to improving his antenna system. 

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 5:04 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with
more questions

 

  

John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do
with hardware...

 

If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier.

 

If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will
ask you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased the
transmitter output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved
coverage.

 

Tell him guys...am I wrong?

 

;^)

 

73,

Paul, AE4KR

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Tim Sawyer <mailto:tisaw...@gmail.com>  

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with
more questions

 

  

In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's
probably not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what
a pain it is when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but
I think you're better off leaving the amp at 80 watts.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Tim Sawyer]

The Micor book says less than 0.5 uV for 20db quieting or 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. 
So the two are in fact equivalent. I get better than 0.35 for 12 db SINAD but I 
don't measure 0.5 for 20 db quieting. I must be doing something wrong.
--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote:

> 
> 2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting
> John VE3AMZ
> - Original Message -
> From: Tim Sawyer
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity
> 
> I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting 
> to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the 
> volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am 
> I missing something?
> 
> --
> Tim
> :wq
> 
> On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:
> 
>>  spec is 0.5
>> uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting
>> method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[petedcurtis]

Hi,

70 watts out sounds OK.  Duplexer's usually have about a 1 - 2db loss
depends how they are set up, size of cavities etc and the model type.

Duplexer  loss   = 10log(Pin/Pout)  Duplexer  Loss  = 10Log(70/100)=
-1.54dB.


Peter

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 10:54 AM, W3ML  wrote:

>
>
> Thanks Joe.
>
> We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin
> had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not
> notice it.
>
> I still have one question though.
>
> Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming
> out of duplexer?
>
> Wacom 6 can type duplexer.
>
> That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help.
>
> 73
> John, W3ML
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com,
> Joe  wrote:
> >
> > What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the
> > loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder
> > joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should
> > find it, as it was discussed recently.
> >
> > The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness. Do not
> > over-tighten the connections! Just make sure that they are snug. If
> > your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much. N
> > connectors need to be snug, UHF connectors need to be a little tighter,
> > but not cranked down tight, but not until they break.
> >
> > What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans
> > and test the first one for power out. Then connect the next can in
> > series and see if there is output from that can. This process should
> > isolate the bad can(s). Disconnect the receiver while doing this just
> > to be safe. MARK all the cables as to where they came from. Do not mix
> > them up. It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that
> > it is not the interconnecting cable. If all the cans and cables test
> > OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer. Keep it
> > simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad.
> >
> > This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with
> > the duplexer. Check the tightness of connections first, cables second,
> > and lastly the cans. The process above will help you isolate the bad
> > can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can.
> >
> > The real fix would involve some test equipment. What do you have
> > available? Service monitor, tracking generator?
> >
> > Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just
> > off the top of my head.
> >
> > On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and
> learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been
> involved with a VHF repeater system.
> > >
> > > Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60
> watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80
> out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay.
> > >
> > > But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at
> all. Radio still shows power coming out.
> > >
> > > Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas?
> > >
> > > 73
> > > John, W3ML
> > >
> >
>
>  
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Paul Plack]

John, here's a more subtle lesson on repeaters, and it has nothing to do with 
hardware...

If you dial the power back 1 dB, your PA may be much happier.

If you simultaneously change the courtesy beep to be 10% faster, users will ask 
you what's changed on the repeater. Tell them you've increased the transmitter 
output 3 dB, and they'll claim to have noticed the improved coverage.

Tell him guys...am I wrong?

;^)

73,
Paul, AE4KR


  - Original Message - 
  From: Tim Sawyer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more 
questions



  In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's probably 
not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what a pain it is 
when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but I think you're 
better off leaving the amp at 80 watts.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Tim Sawyer]

In that spirit. Going from 80 to 100 watts is 0.97 db better. That's probably 
not an improvement your users will notice. When one considers what a pain it is 
when the PA dies, it might not be worth it. Just my 2 cents but I think you're 
better off leaving the amp at 80 watts.
--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 1:11 PM, W3ML wrote:

> It is great! I believe one should never quit learning about this hobby.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Tim Sawyer]

Yea, I think 20 db quieting is more like 0.175 uV 12 db SINAD.
--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 12:52 PM, John J. Riddell wrote:

> 2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[John J. Riddell]

2V AC down to .2 v. AC is 20 DB quieting
John VE3AMZ
  - Original Message - 
  From: Tim Sawyer 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 3:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity




  I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting 
to me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the 
volume to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I 
missing something?


  --
  Tim
  :wq


  On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:


 spec is 0.5
uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting
method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method





  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Tim Sawyer]

I'm getting about 0.35 for 12 db SINAD. But that looks about 10 db quieting to 
me. What I typically do is open the squelch with no signal and set the volume 
to 2 Vac then crank up the signal to 0.2 vac. Isn't that 20 db, or am I missing 
something?

--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:

>  spec is 0.5
> uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting
> method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method

Re: [Repeater-Builder] SIMPLEX software

[John]

Yes,

I have used it when I need a simplex station

John, K4AG

gabriel wrote:

>Hello
>Just for stats, does anyone use the SIMPLEX software by F6DQM to manage its 
>repeater ?
>Gab 
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Oz-in-DFW]

 Stuff to try:

   1. Verify that the LO multiplier chain is peaked correctly.  I've
  seen a bunch of these that exhibit this symptom that had mistuned
  LO chains.
   2. Feed the test signal into the RX directly.  If you see good
  sensitivity, you know where to looks  ;-)
   3. Take each of the bottom cover shields off in order and clean the
  tabs.  Put them back on and run a small screwdriver tip every 1/8"
  or so shorting the can  to its ground. If you see an improvement
  get out an iron and solder it.  I don't like doing this, but I
  haven't found an alternative that works.


On 9/6/2010 12:11 PM, Tim Sawyer wrote:
>  
>
> I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is
> C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450
> Mhz). It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham
> band. But the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on
> the best channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment
> procedure and could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not
> meeting the .5 spec and I was expecting more like .3 or so.
>
> So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there
> some common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be
> looking into?
> --
> Tim
>

-- 
mailto:o...@ozindfw.net
Oz
POB 93167 
Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport) 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Glenn (Butch) Kanvick]

Hello Tim.
I think the specs on your Micor are 402-430, But I could be wrong.
What freq was it crystalled on before you retuned it?
Also what is the frequency you tuned it on now?
That gives us better information as to where it was and where you tuned it
to.

Butch, KE7FEL/r

On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Tim Sawyer  wrote:

>
>
> I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is
> C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz).
> It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But
> the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel
> and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not
> make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was
> expecting more like .3 or so.
>
> So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some
> common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into?
> --
> Tim
> :wq
>
> 
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Eric Lemmon]

Ah, what a difference a factor of 1,000 makes!  Okay, the manual spec is 0.5
uV without a preamp and 0.25 uV with a preamp, when using the 20 dB quieting
method, and 0.35 and 0.175 respectively when using the 12 dB SINAD method.
Try connecting your service monitor directly to the input jack on the
preselector and repeat the sensitivity measurement.  If it is greatly
improved, start looking at cables and connectors.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:29 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

  

Eric,

It's 0.72 microvolts. Not totally dead, just a bit numb.

--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:24 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:


Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts,
or 720
uV

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Chuck Kelsey]

There are shield covers on the RX board that need to be pulled off and have 
the ground pins cleaned. I watched a Motorola service shop do that and the 
sensitivity came back. He turned to me and said "you'd have been forever 
figuring that one out." Don't ask me why, but I saw it work.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "Tim Sawyer" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 1:11 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity


>I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is 
>C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz). 
>It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But 
>the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best 
>channel and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and 
>could not make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec 
>and I was expecting more like .3 or so.
>
> So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some 
> common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking 
> into?
> --
> Tim
> :wq

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Tim Sawyer]

Eric,

It's 0.72 microvolts. Not totally dead, just a bit numb.

--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 6, 2010, at 10:24 AM, Eric Lemmon wrote:

> Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts, or 720
> uV

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

[Eric Lemmon]

Tim,

Please confirm that you measured the sensitivity as 0.72 millivolts, or 720
uV- about 2400 times worse than the 0.3 uV you expect.  Such a huge
disparity points to a failed transistor or a shorted capacitor on the
receive board.  Perhaps your next step is to perform voltage checks and
compare your readings to those in the manual.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Sawyer
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:11 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor UHF Sensivity

  

I have a Micor base that was manufactured in the ham band. Model is
C64RXB3196A-SP71. The receiver model number is TRE1241A-SP10 (420-450 Mhz).
It came with 4 channels all tuned up and on frequency in the ham band. But
the receiver is sensitivity is .72 mv for 20 db quieting on the best channel
and .9 on the worst. I went through the alignment procedure and could not
make any improvement. Obviously this is not meeting the .5 spec and I was
expecting more like .3 or so. 

So my questions is what should I do to troubleshoot this? Is there some
common Micor receiver failure parts or areas that I should be looking into? 
--
Tim
:wq

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Ralph Mowery]

Depending on the frequency seperation it sounds like it is in the ball park.  
Maybe even not enough loss.  Quick in the head math short cut is that 1 db is 
about 25%.  That would give you 75 watts out of the duplexer for 100 watts in.  
If it is 3 db, that is half power or 50 watts out for 100 in.  Any loss between 
the two numbers could be correct.  



Again depending on the frequency seperation and isolation in DB, you can look 
for 1/2 to 1 DB per cavity.  That is for each side.  So 3 cans per side would 
be 
from 1.5 db to 3 db loss in the transmitt side and the same for the receive 
side.


 


- Original Message 
From: W3ML 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, September 6, 2010 10:54:37 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more 
questions

Thanks Joe.


We did most of those and then found the problem.  The T-connector center pin 
had 
broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not notice 
it.

I still have one question though.

Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming out 
of duplexer?

Wacom 6 can type duplexer.


That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help.

73
John, W3ML


  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Unidentified part in msf5000 vhf station

[Eric Lemmon]

Its size and location in the RF path suggests that it is an optional
preselector.  It should have five adjustment screws with locknuts, and bear
the designation TFD1011 or TFD1012.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wb5oxq
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 8:11 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Unidentified part in msf5000 vhf station

  

I just aquired a second msf5000 to make a 2 meter repeater our of and it has
a part not present in the first station. I suspect it could be a rx preamp
due to the fact it has coax input and output and it is wired in series
between the duplexer rx port and the receiver rf input.
It appears to be an aluminum block rack mounted just below the power supply
and is about 1.5" thick and about 8 or 9 inches wide. I did not see any
electrical connections so if it is a preamp it must get power from the coax
into the receiver. I am not familiar with this device. My other station did
not have this part. Perhapps it is sopme kind of filter? Both stations are
the digital capable models which I program with the rib and old laptop. Any
ideas please! Pictures on request if needed.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Joe]

  I agree with Mike. 100 watts in, 70 watts out is about 1.5dB loss. 
That looks very good for a Wacom. What is the model of your duplexer? 
The WP-643 had a single bandpass can on each side that might change the 
estimated loss.

Did you happen to look at the reflected power when you took the forward 
power readings? If you had reflected power, it could throw the forward 
reading off. What kind of a watt meter did you use?

As long as you have no desense, I'd leave it alone.

73, Joe, K1ike

On 9/6/2010 11:28 AM, Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
>
>
> WACOM specs their 6 cavity pass-reject cans at 2.2dB insertion loss. 
> 2.0 dB down from 100 watts is 63 watts, so you’re doing good.
>
> Remember, 3dB is going to take your power down 50%.
>
> 73,
>
> Mike
>
> WM4B
>
> *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *W3ML
> *Sent:* Monday, September 06, 2010 10:55 AM
> *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with 
> more questions
>
> Thanks Joe.
>
> We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector 
> center pin had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test 
> equipment and did not notice it.
>
> I still have one question though.
>
> Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts 
> coming out of duplexer?
>
> Wacom 6 can type duplexer.
>
> That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help.
>
> 73
> John, W3ML
>







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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more questions

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

WACOM specs their 6 cavity pass-reject cans at 2.2dB insertion loss.  2.0 dB
down from 100 watts is 63 watts, so you're doing good.

 

Remember, 3dB is going to take your power down 50%.

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of W3ML
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 10:55 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: no power out of duplexer SOLVED with more
questions

 

  

Thanks Joe.

We did most of those and then found the problem. The T-connector center pin
had broken off when we apparently hooked up some test equipment and did not
notice it.

I still have one question though.

Is it normal to have 100 watts coming out of radio and only 70 watts coming
out of duplexer?

Wacom 6 can type duplexer.

That seems to be quite a loss. Again I appreciate all the help.

73
John, W3ML

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 , Joe  wrote:
>
> What make and model is the duplexer? I know of one instance that the 
> loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder 
> joint, but can't remember what one it was. A search on this list should 
> find it, as it was discussed recently.
> 
> The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness. Do not 
> over-tighten the connections! Just make sure that they are snug. If 
> your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much. N 
> connectors need to be snug, UHF connectors need to be a little tighter, 
> but not cranked down tight, but not until they break.
> 
> What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans 
> and test the first one for power out. Then connect the next can in 
> series and see if there is output from that can. This process should 
> isolate the bad can(s). Disconnect the receiver while doing this just 
> to be safe. MARK all the cables as to where they came from. Do not mix 
> them up. It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that 
> it is not the interconnecting cable. If all the cans and cables test 
> OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer. Keep it 
> simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad.
> 
> This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with 
> the duplexer. Check the tightness of connections first, cables second, 
> and lastly the cans. The process above will help you isolate the bad 
> can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can.
> 
> The real fix would involve some test equipment. What do you have 
> available? Service monitor, tracking generator?
> 
> Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just 
> off the top of my head.
> 
> On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and
learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been
involved with a VHF repeater system.
> >
> > Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60
watts out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80
out of duplexer it seemed to be working okay.
> >
> > But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at
all. Radio still shows power coming out.
> >
> > Nothing was touch on the duplexer. Any ideas?
> >
> > 73
> > John, W3ML
> >
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer

[Joe]

  What make and model is the duplexer?   I know of one instance that the 
loop inside the duplexer can come disconnected due to a bad solder 
joint, but can't remember what one it was.  A search on this list should 
find it, as it was discussed recently.

The first thing would be to check all connections for tightness.  Do not 
over-tighten the connections!  Just make sure that they are snug.  If 
your knuckles are turning white, your tightening too much.   N 
connectors need to be snug,  UHF connectors need to be a little tighter, 
but not cranked down tight, but not until they break.

What you can do is take the connecting cables off the transmit side cans 
and test the first one for power out.  Then connect the next can in 
series and see if there is output from that can.  This process should 
isolate the bad can(s).  Disconnect the receiver while doing this just 
to be safe.  MARK all the cables as to where they came from.  Do not mix 
them up.  It may be a bad cable, so if you find a problem make sure that 
it is not the interconnecting cable.  If all the cans and cables test 
OK, their may be a problem on the receive side of the duplexer.  Keep it 
simple, don't fool with the cans unless you prove that one is bad.

This process is to eliminate the obvious before you go tinkering with 
the duplexer.  Check the tightness of connections first, cables second, 
and lastly the cans.  The process above will help you isolate the bad 
can so you hopefully only have to tinker with one can.

The real fix would involve some test equipment.  What do you have 
available?  Service monitor, tracking generator?

Others will probably have some good suggestions, these ideas are just 
off the top of my head.

On 9/6/2010 9:37 AM, W3ML wrote:
> Hi,
>
> First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and learning 
> as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been involved with 
> a VHF repeater system.
>
>   Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts 
> out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out of 
> duplexer it seemed to be working okay.
>
> But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at all. 
> Radio still shows power coming out.
>
> Nothing was touch on the duplexer.  Any ideas?
>
> 73
> John, W3ML
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer

[Chuck Kelsey]

Sounds like a bad cable/connector. Are there any adaptors or elbows? They 
could be suspect.

Chuck
WB2EDV



- Original Message - 
From: "W3ML" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:37 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] no power out of duplexer


> Hi,
>
> First, let me say that we are still new to the repeater business and 
> learning as we go. This the first time in 30 ham years that I have been 
> involved with a VHF repeater system.
>
> Our repeater was working okay at 80 watts out of GE Mastr II and 60 watts 
> out of Duplexer. When I turn the power up to 100 out of radio and 80 out 
> of duplexer it seemed to be working okay.
>
> But, now a few hours later there is no power coming out of duplexer at 
> all. Radio still shows power coming out.
>
> Nothing was touch on the duplexer.  Any ideas?
>
> 73
> John, W3ML
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Unidentified part in msf5000 vhf station

[Mike Morris]

At 08:10 PM 09/05/10, you wrote:
>I just aquired a second msf5000 to make a 2 meter repeater our of 
>and it has a part not present in the first station.  I suspect it 
>could be a rx preamp due to the fact it has coax input and output 
>and it is wired in series between the duplexer rx port and the 
>receiver rf input.
>It appears to be an aluminum block rack mounted just below the power 
>supply and is about 1.5" thick and about 8 or 9 inches wide.  I did 
>not see any electrical connections so if it is a preamp it must get 
>power from the coax into the receiver.  I am not familiar with this 
>device.  My other station did not have this part.  Perhapps it is 
>sopme kind of filter?   Both stations are the digital capable models 
>which I program with the rib and old laptop.  Any ideas 
>please!  Pictures on request if needed.

Is there a Moto part number on it?
Either a multi-digit, something like 01V12345A01, or
one with three letters and 4 digits, something like TLD,
possibly with a trailing letter?

Mike

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for CTCSS Tone board for MSR 2000 VHF Repeater

[George Henry]

All of the MSR2000 audio and control modules are the same, regardless of 
band.  Only the RF modules differ.


George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413



- Original Message - 
From: "A E" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:21 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Looking for CTCSS Tone board for MSR 2000 VHF 
Repeater


Where would I look to find a CTCSS Tone Board for an ex RCMP VHF repeater 
system that has been converted to the amateur bands?

Are the UHF CTCSS boards compatible ?

Thanks in advance
Aaron
KE5KAF

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters?

[Jeff DePolo]

> >In my experience, cross-polarized antenna systems (those with
> >simultaneous in-phase vertical and horizontal components)
> 
> Isn't that just diagonal polarization? You can't have multiple linear 
> polarization orientations; that's the whole point of circular 
> polarization.
> 
> Bob NO6B

Very astute question there Bob, and there are actually two schools of
thought (and the associated debates) on that very matter.  If the two
radiators could be considered point sources that are coincident, then yes,
you'd have slant polarization due to the E&M fields adding directly.  If you
don't assume them to be coincident sources, then you just have two
orthogonal linear polarizations that can be treated separately.  That's the
simplified version of the way most seem to view the topic, but the grey area
comes when you try to gauge "how close is close enough to consider them to
be concicident".

In most dual-polarization (non-circular, non-elliptical) FM arrays, there is
little attention paid to coincidence of the radiators, and due to pattern
distortion caused by the mounting structure, or even due to intentionally
combining a non-directional radiator of one polarization with a directional
radiator of another polarization, treating them as separate Hpol and Vpol
radiators/fields is likely a more realistic approximation.  As such, Steve's
comment about mixed linear polarizations yielding less predicable results
than true Cpol/Epol are on the money.

--- Jeff WN3A

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"

[petedcurtis]

FYI;

Many years ago when  I worked for Hewlett Packard in their Test Equipment
division, we used to use a UK contact cleaner called Eletrolube, it was sold
by Radiospares in UK. It was the only spray or drip contact cleaner we could
use on the HP DC Standard as others would cause micro volt calibration
errors due to minute leakages.  In its day it was the Rolls Royce of contact
cleaners. Don't know if its still available. I think they even had a paste
for heavy duty switch contacts.

Peter





On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Eric Lemmon  wrote:

>
>
> Tom,
>
> Any statements made on the Caig website regarding a "comparison" of DeOxit
> and Stabilant, could hardly be judged as unbiased. Legitimate, real-world
> comparisons of contact enhancement compounds have already been made, many
> times, by Motorola, IBM, Bendix-King, Hewlett-Packard, Tektronix, and other
> major manufacturers. I remember an article in Radio-Electronics Magazine,
> some 30 years ago, where the excellent performance of Stabilant was
> documented. Many moons ago, I cured a problem with my Apple II+ using
> Stabilant 22- the plug-in expansion and memory cards had a tendency to
> "walk" out of their motherboard sockets and cause intermittent contact. A
> thorough cleaning with an alcohol-soaked Q-Tip, followed by an application
> of Stabilant 22A, completely cured the intermittent contact.
>
> Don't be concerned about Stabilant 22 becoming hard; it dries into a waxy
> film that remains pliable for years.
>
>
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of TGundo 2003
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:27 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"
>
> Thanks Lou, Bob, Eric, John and the rest!
>
> I have a bunch of techs around here that all swear by Deox-it as long as
> its
> used sparangily, and Caig seems to hit all concern points in their website
> vs.22.
>
> Has anyone had any specific issues directly related to using Deox-it? I
> want
> to do the right thing and will order the 22 if necessary, but not only
> because it is what Circle M recommends...maybe Deox-it was not around when
> they made the recommendation? From reading the Caig website I think it may
> be a better choiceI worry a little about the 22 drying into a rigid
> form. What happens over time as the pins heat up and expand/contract,
> especially in a non-climate controlled environment?
>
> Tom
> W9SRV
>
> --- On Sat, 9/4/10, wa6epd > wrote:
>
> From: wa6epd >
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 10:57 PM
>
>
> Bob, NO6B, wrote:-
>
> 
>
> <
> http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-22/Stabilant-22-5ml-Kit-Makes-30ml-Of-22
> a.aspx>
>
>   
> 
>
> Take a look at:-
>
> <http://store.caig.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/it.I/id.1977/KB.215/.f>
>
> The do the comparison.
>
> -Lou- WA6EPD
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Circular polarization for VHF repeaters?

[no6b]

At 9/5/2010 08:23, you wrote:

>In my experience, cross-polarized antenna systems (those with
>simultaneous in-phase vertical and horizontal components)

Isn't that just diagonal polarization?  You can't have multiple linear 
polarization orientations; that's the whole point of circular polarization.

Bob NO6B

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Interference on VHF repeater

[David Murman]

Had basically the same problem with w GE MASTR II repeater on VHF HI. The
issue was with the repeater transmitter. When the repeater sat quiet for a
while then it was keyed up the transmitter would have many spurs that would
slowly travel up the band. This affected other repeaters that were open
squelch or had the same PL. On the GE MASTR II PA there is a circuit just
after the filter that was the problem. The tech had put a filter on the
transmitter side to help with desense. This caused the network to be
unbalanced and was causing the transmitter to spur. Once the transmitter ran
for a while it cleared.

 

 

David 

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brett
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:27 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Interference on VHF repeater

 

  

Hi all,

I have come across an interesting problem which you may be able to shed some
light on. I have an intermod issue where my TX sometimes opens up my RX. I
have the distinctive hollow pipe sound. Both TX and RX have the same CTCSS
tone. The intermod product is however not always present, and after looking
at the RX output from the duplexer with a SA I see a comb of products that
move slowly in time. When one of the products in the comb falls within the
RX bandwidth the RX opens, until it moves on.

This is not a busy site, and I have been able to power down everything on
site except my repeater. Problem remains unchanged.

I have also disconnected feeders from all other RF equipment on site - still
no change. 

The fact that the IM product frequency changes with time (drift rate is
roughly a few kHz's an hour) makes me think that there is either another
unknown source of RF on site which has poor freq stability (pretty
unlikley), or somehow my TX freq is involved in producing this freq. 

I have inserted a 6dB pad in the antenna port of the duplexer and found that
the IM products drop 12dB, and also curiously, the frequency of the products
change. Removing the pad reverses this effect. I have repeated this many
times and the result was always the same. It appears that the frequency of
the IM product is dependent on the strength of the radiated field from my
antenna.

This is my question: I have read that it is possible for a strong EM field
to excite metal (eg tower member) such that re-radiation will occur at a
frequency which is different from that which excited it. Can anyone confirm
they have seen this, or can anyone point me to a reference that talks about
this? 

I should also mention there are multiple solar panels and associated
regulators on site. The regulators have been discounted as possible sources,
but the panels (given they may have bypass/blocking diodes) may be a mixing
location, however the source of the drifting tone is still unclear.

Thanks,

Brett VK2CBD.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"

[Eric Lemmon]

Tom,

Any statements made on the Caig website regarding a "comparison" of DeOxit
and Stabilant, could hardly be judged as unbiased.  Legitimate, real-world
comparisons of contact enhancement compounds have already been made, many
times, by Motorola, IBM, Bendix-King, Hewlett-Packard, Tektronix, and other
major manufacturers.  I remember an article in Radio-Electronics Magazine,
some 30 years ago, where the excellent performance of Stabilant was
documented.  Many moons ago, I cured a problem with my Apple II+ using
Stabilant 22- the plug-in expansion and memory cards had a tendency to
"walk" out of their motherboard sockets and cause intermittent contact.  A
thorough cleaning with an alcohol-soaked Q-Tip, followed by an application
of Stabilant 22A, completely cured the intermittent contact.

Don't be concerned about Stabilant 22 becoming hard; it dries into a waxy
film that remains pliable for years.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TGundo 2003
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:27 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"

  

Thanks Lou, Bob, Eric, John and the rest!

I have a bunch of techs around here that all swear by Deox-it as long as its
used sparangily, and Caig seems to hit all concern points in their website
vs.22.

Has anyone had any specific issues directly related to using Deox-it? I want
to do the right thing and will order the 22 if necessary, but not only
because it is what Circle M recommends...maybe Deox-it was not around when
they made the recommendation? From reading the Caig website I think it may
be a better choiceI worry a little about the 22 drying into a rigid
form. What happens over time as the pins heat up and expand/contract,
especially in a non-climate controlled environment?

Tom
W9SRV

--- On Sat, 9/4/10, wa6epd  wrote:



From: wa6epd 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 10:57 PM


Bob, NO6B, wrote:-

http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-22/Stabilant-22-5ml-Kit-Makes-30ml-Of-22
a.aspx>

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/it.I/id.1977/KB.215/.f>

The do the comparison.

-Lou-  WA6EPD









Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek lowband PTT questions

[x.tait.tech]

i have no need for your old nappies, dirty underwear, or smelly atrmpit
teeshirts , as these are
Compulsive hoarding (or pathological hoarding or disposophobia or the Messie
mindset) is a mental disorder marked by an obsessive need to acquire (and
failure to use or discard) a significant amount of possessions, even if the
items are worthless, hazardous, or unsanitary. ...

have a loverly sunny day, un hasseled by mothers in law

keep a happy face

Marcus


On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 6:30 PM, niteviser  wrote:

>
>
> Marcus,
>
> You're a disposophobic, look up compulsive hoarder in Wikipedia. Don't
> refer to my 'collection' of radios, that is a genuine hobby and not any
> specific medical or mental condition. Until they come to take me away, Ha
> Ha..
>
> niteviser
>
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com,
> "x.tait.tech"  wrote:
> >
> > what would it take short of some cash to have one sent to me here in New
> > Zealand as a one off key, not that i need one, i am told i am a Hoarder
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 4:38 PM, KP3FT  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > Thanks for the previous advice on the Mitrek lockout key; I ordered one
> off
> > > Ebay and it worked fine.
> > > Opened the radio up and everything looks visually OK, all the channel
> > > elements are there, no burned components, etc. I read through the
> > > Repeater-Builder's Mitrek webpages and figured out the pins for hookup.
> I
> > > was wondering if anyone could look over some sections of the Mitrek
> > > schematic<
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/files/Mitrek%20Lowband/>
>
> > > I posted in the Files section under the folder "Mitrek Lowband",
> regarding
> > > the PTT circuit. I circled the areas in question in red and blue. (I
> also
> > > hyperlinked to the various schematic sections in this message). I just
> want
> > > some verification before I start wiring up the radio. I found another
> > > website where the author said to jumper pin #1 to pin #25 on the
> interconnect
> > > board connection<
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wBWDTM_dzohoZJ1M25svBvhmyUk3YStFZKcbHdVjzcHCTQSgFE9U0-wFOU3PHUQL3NIWEGUG1ndFPkhYrLdul9o1/Mitrek%20Lowband/interconnect_board.jpg>
> ,
>
> > > and then just ground pin #13 of the cable connector (or pin #13 on the
> front
> > > of the radio in my case) for PTT operation. (Pin #24 of the
> interconnect
> > > board connector is the same as pin #13 of the cable connector) My
> questions
> > > are:
> > > 1. What does the jumper do and is it beneficial for beacon operation?
> > > Here is the schematic section
> > > <
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wBWDTDg1U9VoZJ1MJmrSx6917ZszwfFtwKxh8c5tPrKp1IiKeb_dd_z6o52LjBRH6eMjcKXGvRCwASnBIgIJ8PUE/Mitrek%20Lowband/mitrek_PTT.jpg>
> of
>
> > > the PTT circuit.
> > > 2. I will be using the Mitrek solely as a transmitter beacon, so RX is
> not
> > > necessary. I'll have to disable the antenna relay<
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wBWDTJ0GE-FoZJ1MoIPDEYBXLqbbFZph6Eymc3u9dFQYPG2vhGbVYg92QCtUhDuNVVr89_tTKgsBysS0H3B3Q5eW/Mitrek%20Lowband/Antenna_Relay.jpg
> >
>
> > > because it won't last long during constant beacon operation, plus it
> isn't
> > > even needed. Can I just disable the relay by cutting power to it and
> wire
> > > the PA output directly to the antenna jack (two points circled in
> blue)?
> > > Or, just keep voltage on the relay so the RX section is always switched
> out
> > > and the TX switched in? Probably easier that way.
> > > 3. The radio has the PL board installed; can I just remove it so it
> doesn't
> > > introduce anything into the carrier, or just leave it alone? I can't
> tell
> > > from reading through the various websites and the schematic if the
> PL-encode
> > > is enabled automatically or if it needs switching on, in which case I
> will
> > > leave it off.
> > > Thanks for any advice.
> > > Jeff KP3FT
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>  
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Mitrek lowband PTT questions

[x.tait.tech]

yes im a hoarder like you, hehehe i am not afraid to admit it, i love your
collection of "OLD" junk

LOLOLOLOL

see you in the niiny bin where all the loonies go



On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 6:30 PM, niteviser  wrote:

>
>
> Marcus,
>
> You're a disposophobic, look up compulsive hoarder in Wikipedia. Don't
> refer to my 'collection' of radios, that is a genuine hobby and not any
> specific medical or mental condition. Until they come to take me away, Ha
> Ha..
>
> niteviser
>
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com,
> "x.tait.tech"  wrote:
> >
> > what would it take short of some cash to have one sent to me here in New
> > Zealand as a one off key, not that i need one, i am told i am a Hoarder
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 4:38 PM, KP3FT  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > Thanks for the previous advice on the Mitrek lockout key; I ordered one
> off
> > > Ebay and it worked fine.
> > > Opened the radio up and everything looks visually OK, all the channel
> > > elements are there, no burned components, etc. I read through the
> > > Repeater-Builder's Mitrek webpages and figured out the pins for hookup.
> I
> > > was wondering if anyone could look over some sections of the Mitrek
> > > schematic<
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/files/Mitrek%20Lowband/>
>
> > > I posted in the Files section under the folder "Mitrek Lowband",
> regarding
> > > the PTT circuit. I circled the areas in question in red and blue. (I
> also
> > > hyperlinked to the various schematic sections in this message). I just
> want
> > > some verification before I start wiring up the radio. I found another
> > > website where the author said to jumper pin #1 to pin #25 on the
> interconnect
> > > board connection<
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wBWDTM_dzohoZJ1M25svBvhmyUk3YStFZKcbHdVjzcHCTQSgFE9U0-wFOU3PHUQL3NIWEGUG1ndFPkhYrLdul9o1/Mitrek%20Lowband/interconnect_board.jpg>
> ,
>
> > > and then just ground pin #13 of the cable connector (or pin #13 on the
> front
> > > of the radio in my case) for PTT operation. (Pin #24 of the
> interconnect
> > > board connector is the same as pin #13 of the cable connector) My
> questions
> > > are:
> > > 1. What does the jumper do and is it beneficial for beacon operation?
> > > Here is the schematic section
> > > <
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wBWDTDg1U9VoZJ1MJmrSx6917ZszwfFtwKxh8c5tPrKp1IiKeb_dd_z6o52LjBRH6eMjcKXGvRCwASnBIgIJ8PUE/Mitrek%20Lowband/mitrek_PTT.jpg>
> of
>
> > > the PTT circuit.
> > > 2. I will be using the Mitrek solely as a transmitter beacon, so RX is
> not
> > > necessary. I'll have to disable the antenna relay<
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wBWDTJ0GE-FoZJ1MoIPDEYBXLqbbFZph6Eymc3u9dFQYPG2vhGbVYg92QCtUhDuNVVr89_tTKgsBysS0H3B3Q5eW/Mitrek%20Lowband/Antenna_Relay.jpg
> >
>
> > > because it won't last long during constant beacon operation, plus it
> isn't
> > > even needed. Can I just disable the relay by cutting power to it and
> wire
> > > the PA output directly to the antenna jack (two points circled in
> blue)?
> > > Or, just keep voltage on the relay so the RX section is always switched
> out
> > > and the TX switched in? Probably easier that way.
> > > 3. The radio has the PL board installed; can I just remove it so it
> doesn't
> > > introduce anything into the carrier, or just leave it alone? I can't
> tell
> > > from reading through the various websites and the schematic if the
> PL-encode
> > > is enabled automatically or if it needs switching on, in which case I
> will
> > > leave it off.
> > > Thanks for any advice.
> > > Jeff KP3FT
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>  
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Mitrek lowband PTT questions

[x.tait.tech]

what would it take short of some cash to have one sent to me here in New
Zealand as a one off key, not that i need one, i am told i am a Hoarder

Marcus



On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 4:38 PM, KP3FT  wrote:

>
>
> Hi all,
> Thanks for the previous advice on the Mitrek lockout key; I ordered one off
> Ebay and it worked fine.
> Opened the radio up and everything looks visually OK, all the channel
> elements are there, no burned components, etc.  I read through the
> Repeater-Builder's Mitrek webpages and figured out the pins for hookup.   I
> was wondering if anyone could look over some sections of the Mitrek
> schematic
> I posted in the Files section under the folder "Mitrek Lowband", regarding
> the PTT circuit.  I circled the areas in question in red and blue.  (I also
> hyperlinked to the various schematic sections in this message).  I just want
> some verification before I start wiring up the radio.  I found another
> website where the author said to jumper pin #1 to pin #25 on the interconnect
> board 
> connection
>  ,
> and then just ground pin #13 of the cable connector (or pin #13 on the front
> of the radio in my case) for PTT operation.  (Pin #24 of the interconnect
> board connector is the same as pin #13 of the cable connector) My questions
> are:
> 1.  What does the jumper do and is it beneficial for beacon operation?
> Here is the schematic section
> 
>  of
> the PTT circuit.
> 2.  I will be using the Mitrek solely as a transmitter beacon, so RX is not
> necessary.  I'll have to disable the antenna 
> relay
> because it won't last long during constant beacon operation, plus it isn't
> even needed.  Can I just disable the relay by cutting power to it and wire
> the PA output directly to the antenna jack (two points circled in blue)?
> Or, just keep voltage on the relay so the RX section is always switched out
> and the TX switched in?  Probably easier that way.
> 3. The radio has the PL board installed; can I just remove it so it doesn't
> introduce anything into the carrier, or just leave it alone?  I can't tell
> from reading through the various websites and the schematic if the PL-encode
> is enabled automatically or if it needs switching on, in which case I will
> leave it off.
> Thanks for any advice.
> Jeff KP3FT
>  
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"

[TGundo 2003]

Thanks Lou, Bob, Eric, John and the rest!

I have a bunch of techs around here that all swear by Deox-it as long as its 
used sparangily, and Caig seems to hit all concern points in their website 
vs.22.

Has anyone had any specific issues directly related to using Deox-it? I want to 
do the right thing and will order the 22 if necessary, but not only because it 
is what Circle M recommends...maybe Deox-it was not around when they made the 
recommendation? From reading the Caig website I think it may be a better 
choiceI worry a little about the 22 drying into a rigid form. What happens 
over time as the pins heat up and expand/contract, especially in a non-climate 
controlled environment?

Tom
W9SRV

--- On Sat, 9/4/10, wa6epd  wrote:

From: wa6epd 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor Pin "Gunk"
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 10:57 PM

Bob, NO6B, wrote:-

http://www.micro-tools.com/store/P-22/Stabilant-22-5ml-Kit-Makes-30ml-Of-22a.aspx>

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/ctype.KB/it.I/id.1977/KB.215/.f>

The do the comparison.

-Lou-  WA6EPD









Yahoo! Groups Links






  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] master 3 narowband?

[Mike Morris]

At 05:47 PM 09/04/10, you wrote:
>can the uhf master 3 radios be programmed narrowband in compliance 
>with the new fcc rules or should I take it to a ham swapmeet?
>wb5oxq

Depends on the vintage of the receiver and exciter modules.

Are there any numbers on them?

Mike

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

[no6b]

At 9/4/2010 11:13, you wrote:
>Tom,
>
>Motorola does not now, and never has, recommended DeOxit or any other
>contact enhancer "gunk" besides Stabilant 22.  Up until just a few years
>ago, Motorola specified Stabilant 22A, under part number 1180369E78, which
>is a mixture of pure Stabilant 22 and isopropyl alcohol.  Today, Motorola
>sells a kit under part number 1180384V93 which comprises a 5 ml bottle of
>pure Stabilant 22, an empty 15 ml bottle, and some tiny swabs.




>The 1180384V93 kit is sold by Motorola Parts for about $47, but is
>sufficient to last for years.

This looks like the same stuff:



The description of how Stabilant 22 works reads very similar to the Caig 
Labs DeOxIt products.  A performance comparison between the 2 products 
would be interesting.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

[John J. Riddell]

Eric, I checked the web site for DW Electrochemicals and they mention that 
Electro-Sonic
no longer carries their productwe'll have to ask Marty VE3MR what the 
problem is 
(he's the owner)

Primespec here in Waterloo is where I get mine but shipping might be quite
expensive to the USA.

None the less it's a great product.

73 John VE3AMZ


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"


> John,
> 
> I did not find Stabilant listed in the Electro-Sonic online catalog, but I
> did find the identical kit at Micro-Tools for only $38, here:
> 
> 
> I also found that Amazon sells the same kit as Micro-Tools, and for the same
> price of $38.  I should point out that the kit does NOT make 30 ml of
> solution, as the listing implies; if the instructions are followed exactly-
> adding 10 ml of alcohol to 2.5 ml of pure Stabilant- the kit will make a
> total of 25 ml of solution.  That's because the 15 ml bottle is filled only
> to the 12.5 ml point, where the bottle begins to narrow.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John J. Riddell
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 11:47 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"
> 
>  
> 
> Eric, you're singing my tune ! I've used that stuff for many years now and
> it is really great.
> 
> It was developed here in Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada by DW
> Electrochemicals.
> As you know only a very small amount is needed on the surface to be
> effective.
> 
> The last bottle that I purchased here in Waterloo cost around $35.00. I'd
> bet that 
> Electro-Sonic would carry it and they are now in the Buffalo areamight
> be quite a bit 
> cheaper than the Motorola price...
> 
> John VE3AMZ
> 
> ----- Original Message - 
> From: "Eric Lemmon" mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net> >
> To:  <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 2:13 PM
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"
> 
>> Tom,
>> 
>> Motorola does not now, and never has, recommended DeOxit or any other
>> contact enhancer "gunk" besides Stabilant 22. Up until just a few years
>> ago, Motorola specified Stabilant 22A, under part number 1180369E78, which
>> is a mixture of pure Stabilant 22 and isopropyl alcohol. Today, Motorola
>> sells a kit under part number 1180384V93 which comprises a 5 ml bottle of
>> pure Stabilant 22, an empty 15 ml bottle, and some tiny swabs. The user
>> then puts 2.5 ml of the Stabilant 22 into the 15 ml bottle and adds 10 ml
> of
>> 99% isopropanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22A, or adds 10 ml
>> of pure ethanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22E. Either
>> solution is extremely effective if applied wet to clean connectors
>> immediately before mating. It is also effective in curing intermittent
>> contacts in card-edge connectors in PCs and electronic instruments. The
>> alcohol solvent is essential for the product to work; undiluted Stabilant
> 22
>> is ineffective. Drug-store isopropyl alcohol, aka rubbing alcohol, should
>> not be used since it is diluted with water and will interfere with
>> Stabilant's action.
>> 
>> The 1180384V93 kit is sold by Motorola Parts for about $47, but is
>> sufficient to last for years.
>> 
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
>> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of w9srv
>> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:28 AM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Guys!
>> 
>> I am in the middle of rebuilding a receive site for one of the area
>> repeaters and have come across some interesting "Pin Gunk". I've been told
>> that Motorola techs years ago used to apply some kind of "goo" to help
> with
>> the connection on all the backplane pins, etc, but I don't know if this is
>> what that is. This receive site has been developing some intermittant
> issues
>> on several fronts, and maybe this explains them.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Interference on VHF repeater

[DCFluX]

Look around for a switch mode power supply that uses 600kHz as the
switch frequency.  SMPS Battery Chargers are popular for causing this.
 Also florescent twist lights are really good for making desense on
VHF.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

[Eric Lemmon]

John,

I did not find Stabilant listed in the Electro-Sonic online catalog, but I
did find the identical kit at Micro-Tools for only $38, here:


I also found that Amazon sells the same kit as Micro-Tools, and for the same
price of $38.  I should point out that the kit does NOT make 30 ml of
solution, as the listing implies; if the instructions are followed exactly-
adding 10 ml of alcohol to 2.5 ml of pure Stabilant- the kit will make a
total of 25 ml of solution.  That's because the 15 ml bottle is filled only
to the 12.5 ml point, where the bottle begins to narrow.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John J. Riddell
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

  

Eric, you're singing my tune ! I've used that stuff for many years now and
it is really great.

It was developed here in Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada by DW
Electrochemicals.
As you know only a very small amount is needed on the surface to be
effective.

The last bottle that I purchased here in Waterloo cost around $35.00. I'd
bet that 
Electro-Sonic would carry it and they are now in the Buffalo areamight
be quite a bit 
cheaper than the Motorola price...

John VE3AMZ

- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" mailto:wb6fly%40verizon.net> >
To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

> Tom,
> 
> Motorola does not now, and never has, recommended DeOxit or any other
> contact enhancer "gunk" besides Stabilant 22. Up until just a few years
> ago, Motorola specified Stabilant 22A, under part number 1180369E78, which
> is a mixture of pure Stabilant 22 and isopropyl alcohol. Today, Motorola
> sells a kit under part number 1180384V93 which comprises a 5 ml bottle of
> pure Stabilant 22, an empty 15 ml bottle, and some tiny swabs. The user
> then puts 2.5 ml of the Stabilant 22 into the 15 ml bottle and adds 10 ml
of
> 99% isopropanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22A, or adds 10 ml
> of pure ethanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22E. Either
> solution is extremely effective if applied wet to clean connectors
> immediately before mating. It is also effective in curing intermittent
> contacts in card-edge connectors in PCs and electronic instruments. The
> alcohol solvent is essential for the product to work; undiluted Stabilant
22
> is ineffective. Drug-store isopropyl alcohol, aka rubbing alcohol, should
> not be used since it is diluted with water and will interfere with
> Stabilant's action.
> 
> The 1180384V93 kit is sold by Motorola Parts for about $47, but is
> sufficient to last for years.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of w9srv
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:28 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Guys!
> 
> I am in the middle of rebuilding a receive site for one of the area
> repeaters and have come across some interesting "Pin Gunk". I've been told
> that Motorola techs years ago used to apply some kind of "goo" to help
with
> the connection on all the backplane pins, etc, but I don't know if this is
> what that is. This receive site has been developing some intermittant
issues
> on several fronts, and maybe this explains them. 
> 
> The problem with this gunk is that is is non-conductive and a real bugger
to
> clean off. DeOxit seems to work the best. I made this quick video last
night
> showing this on the pins of the power control board. Here is the link to
the
> video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWumkQetdY
> 
> Has anyone else ever come across this? Are there any other steps other
than
> cleaning it off to ensure it will not be another problem in the future?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tom
> W9SRV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Msf5000 Low Power alarms

[MCH]

You enter that code to get rid of the alarms. I was just wondering how 
you set them again should you want/need to do that.

Joe M.

Richard wrote:
> 
> I'm not quite sure I understand your question.
> The procedure puts it into normal condition. Nothing further to do. 
> 
> For a conventional MSF5000 (NON-trunking) that is, a radio always
> without the RF sensor installed, the values 00 and FF are what is
> loaded at factory; e.g. normal.
>  
> The problem usually happens when someone replaces a CLB SCB(analog)
> board with CXB SSCB that came from a 800 trunking radio. It will
> contain the setpoint values from its previous "home".
> They need to be reset to FACTORY default for CONVENTIONAL stations.
> 
> Non-trunking=no RF sensor = Factory setpoint value of 00,FF.
> 
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH  wrote:
>> How do you set it back to normal?
>>
>> Joe M.
>>
>> Richard Arnold wrote:
>>>
>>> There is an RSS software solution ("bitbang") to get rid of the alarms.
>>> Connect the RIB to the operating MSF.
>>>  From the main menu hit ALT-F5. A command line bar will appear telling 
>>> you to enter an IPCB command. Enter the following: (WITHOUT the " " quotes)
>>>
>>>   "/1e1607160800FF"
>>>
>>> it is CASE sensitive. This sets the FWD/REV settings to zero and FF 
>>> (infinity)
>>> I've done it many times, and it works just fine!
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Sun, 8/29/10, jimmylpowell //* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: jimmylpowell 
>>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Msf5000 Low Power alarms
>>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>>> Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:36 PM
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I originally posted this on the MSF5000 board but got no response. I
>>> thought I would broaden my search.
>>>
>>> Does anyone know a way to get a non trunking MSF with out an internal
>>> power
>>> sensor to stop giving the 7 beeps? I have tried going back to a default
>>> codeplug
>>> and starting from scratch. This did not work. It seems that once the bit
>>> is
>>> set it won't go away. I'm sure that it happened when someone went into
>>> the
>>> screen to adjust the alarms. I know this is a common problem and they
>>> tell you
>>> not to do it.
>>>
>>> I have the alarms disabled over the air, but it annoys me on the local
>>> audio. I
>>> would like to enable the over the air alarms, but I can't until I can
>>> clear this
>>> one.
>>>
>>> My MSF has version 4.07 SSCB and 5.04 TTRC.
>>>
>>> Maybe there's some bit banging that can be done.
>>>
>>> Jimmy, K5JCT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>>> Version: 9.0.783 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2746 - Release Date: 03/14/10 
>>> 03:33:00
>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

[John J. Riddell]

Eric, you're singing my tune ! I've used that stuff for many years now and it 
is really great.

It was developed here in Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada by DW Electrochemicals.
As you know only a very small amount is needed on the surface to be effective.

The last bottle that I purchased here in Waterloo cost around $35.00. I'd bet 
that 
Electro-Sonic would carry it and they are now in the Buffalo areamight be 
quite a bit 
cheaper than the Motorola price...


John VE3AMZ


- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Lemmon" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"


> Tom,
> 
> Motorola does not now, and never has, recommended DeOxit or any other
> contact enhancer "gunk" besides Stabilant 22.  Up until just a few years
> ago, Motorola specified Stabilant 22A, under part number 1180369E78, which
> is a mixture of pure Stabilant 22 and isopropyl alcohol.  Today, Motorola
> sells a kit under part number 1180384V93 which comprises a 5 ml bottle of
> pure Stabilant 22, an empty 15 ml bottle, and some tiny swabs.  The user
> then puts 2.5 ml of the Stabilant 22 into the 15 ml bottle and adds 10 ml of
> 99% isopropanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22A, or adds 10 ml
> of pure ethanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22E.  Either
> solution is extremely effective if applied wet to clean connectors
> immediately before mating.  It is also effective in curing intermittent
> contacts in card-edge connectors in PCs and electronic instruments.  The
> alcohol solvent is essential for the product to work; undiluted Stabilant 22
> is ineffective.  Drug-store isopropyl alcohol, aka rubbing alcohol, should
> not be used since it is diluted with water and will interfere with
> Stabilant's action.
> 
> The 1180384V93 kit is sold by Motorola Parts for about $47, but is
> sufficient to last for years.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of w9srv
> Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:28 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Guys!
> 
> I am in the middle of rebuilding a receive site for one of the area
> repeaters and have come across some interesting "Pin Gunk". I've been told
> that Motorola techs years ago used to apply some kind of "goo" to help with
> the connection on all the backplane pins, etc, but I don't know if this is
> what that is. This receive site has been developing some intermittant issues
> on several fronts, and maybe this explains them. 
> 
> The problem with this gunk is that is is non-conductive and a real bugger to
> clean off. DeOxit seems to work the best. I made this quick video last night
> showing this on the pins of the power control board. Here is the link to the
> video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWumkQetdY
> 
> Has anyone else ever come across this? Are there any other steps other than
> cleaning it off to ensure it will not be another problem in the future?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tom
> W9SRV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

[Eric Lemmon]

Tom,

Motorola does not now, and never has, recommended DeOxit or any other
contact enhancer "gunk" besides Stabilant 22.  Up until just a few years
ago, Motorola specified Stabilant 22A, under part number 1180369E78, which
is a mixture of pure Stabilant 22 and isopropyl alcohol.  Today, Motorola
sells a kit under part number 1180384V93 which comprises a 5 ml bottle of
pure Stabilant 22, an empty 15 ml bottle, and some tiny swabs.  The user
then puts 2.5 ml of the Stabilant 22 into the 15 ml bottle and adds 10 ml of
99% isopropanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22A, or adds 10 ml
of pure ethanol to make a working solution of Stabilant 22E.  Either
solution is extremely effective if applied wet to clean connectors
immediately before mating.  It is also effective in curing intermittent
contacts in card-edge connectors in PCs and electronic instruments.  The
alcohol solvent is essential for the product to work; undiluted Stabilant 22
is ineffective.  Drug-store isopropyl alcohol, aka rubbing alcohol, should
not be used since it is diluted with water and will interfere with
Stabilant's action.

The 1180384V93 kit is sold by Motorola Parts for about $47, but is
sufficient to last for years.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of w9srv
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:28 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

  

Hi Guys!

I am in the middle of rebuilding a receive site for one of the area
repeaters and have come across some interesting "Pin Gunk". I've been told
that Motorola techs years ago used to apply some kind of "goo" to help with
the connection on all the backplane pins, etc, but I don't know if this is
what that is. This receive site has been developing some intermittant issues
on several fronts, and maybe this explains them. 

The problem with this gunk is that is is non-conductive and a real bugger to
clean off. DeOxit seems to work the best. I made this quick video last night
showing this on the pins of the power control board. Here is the link to the
video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWumkQetdY

Has anyone else ever come across this? Are there any other steps other than
cleaning it off to ensure it will not be another problem in the future?

Thanks!

Tom
W9SRV

Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Circulator

[Tim Sawyer]

Same thing but my fingers learned :wq too many years ago to retrain I even 
type it in my GUI editors... duh!
--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 4, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Will Gwin wrote:

> try:
> :x

Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Circulator

[Tim Sawyer]

Indeed, long live vi. I do have a pass cavity between the Micor circulator and 
the duplexer. I'm not sure where the other IM products are just yet. I'm 
sometimes hearing a pager. Once I heard what I suspect is Orange County Red 
Cross on 462.9875... still confirming this. I hear the drip from 147.435 every 
now and then. 
 
--
Tim
:wq

On Sep 4, 2010, at 8:03 AM, n...@no6b.com wrote:

> At 9/3/2010 18:56, you wrote:
> >I'm looking for a UHF circulator to buy (or borrow). I have a mix that 
> >involves our transmitter but I'm not sure it's in our transmitter. We have 
> >a Micor repeater with the built in circulator but some feel an outboard 
> >two port is required for our nasty hill. It would be good if I could test 
> >one and not spend money on something that won't help.
> >
> >Aside from the the borrow request what do others think about this. Is more 
> >circulator than the stock Micor necessary?
> 
> How far away are the other mix products? If more than a couple of MHz or 
> so you could try a pass cavity after the Micor circulator instead of a 2nd 
> circulator.
> 
> >--
> >Tim
> >:wq
> 
> A vi command? That old text editor will never go away!
> 
> Bob NO6B
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"

[Chuck Kelsey]

The station ID adds some real "class" to the video.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "w9srv" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 1:27 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Pin "Gunk"


> Hi Guys!
>
> I am in the middle of rebuilding a receive site for one of the area 
> repeaters and have come across some interesting "Pin Gunk". I've been told 
> that Motorola techs years ago used to apply some kind of "goo" to help 
> with the connection on all the backplane pins, etc, but I don't know if 
> this is what that is. This receive site has been developing some 
> intermittant issues on several fronts, and maybe this explains them.
>
> The problem with this gunk is that is is non-conductive and a real bugger 
> to clean off. DeOxit seems to work the best. I made this quick video last 
> night showing this on the pins of the power control board. Here is the 
> link to the video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmWumkQetdY
>
> Has anyone else ever come across this? Are there any other steps other 
> than cleaning it off to ensure it will not be another problem in the 
> future?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tom
> W9SRV