Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
Thakn you thank you. Faith - Original Message - From: "Simon Jester" To: Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 9:19 PM Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 On 10/29/2007 faith gagne wrote: Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty Wendell Phillips http://freedomkeys.com/vigil.htm -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
On 10/29/2007 faith gagne wrote: Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty Wendell Phillips http://freedomkeys.com/vigil.htm -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
'Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty'. (Brigham Young?) Faith - Original Message - From: "James McCourt, Ph.D." To: Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 2:27 PM Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 THE FOUNDATION: CONSTITUTIONAL INTERPRETATION by Thomas Jefferson: "They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless." -Thomas Jefferson GOVERNMENT "In each new Congress since 1995, Rep. John Shadegg (R-AZ) has introduced the Enumerated Powers Act (HR 1359)... Simply put, if enacted, the Enumerated Powers Act would require Congress to specify the basis of authority in the U.S. Constitution for the enactment of laws and other congressional actions. HR 1359 has 28 co-sponsors in the House of Representatives. When Shadegg introduced the Enumerated Powers Act, he explained that the Constitution gives the federal government great, but limited, powers. Its framers granted Congress, as the central mechanism for protecting liberty, specific rather than general powers. The Constitution gives Congress 18 specific enumerated powers, spelled out mostly in Article 1, Section 8. The framers reinforced that enumeration by the 10th Amendment, which reads: 'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.' Just a few of the numerous statements by our founders demonstrate that their vision and the vision of Shadegg's Enumerated Powers Act are one and the same... I salute the bravery of Rep. Shadegg and the 28 co-sponsors of the Enumerated Powers Act. They have a monumental struggle. Congress is not alone in its constitutional contempt, but is joined by the White House and particularly the constitutionally derelict U.S. Supreme Court." -Walter Williams - Original Message - From: "Dan Nave" To: Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 5:37 AM Subject: RE: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 -Original Message- From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org] Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:23 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 On 10/27/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: It was created because no one was doing *any* job. That was the *excuse* provided... but it was a MANUFACTURED one. It isn't the Federal Governments JOB to police the food supply. If you disagree, please point to the Article:Section:Clause in the Constitution that delegates this authority. And please don't waste my time yammering about 'the general welfare' clause - it ISN'T a delegation of authority, and has no meaning, except for power-hungry mad-men and gullible fools... Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
THE FOUNDATION: CONSTITUTIONAL INTERPRETATION by Thomas Jefferson: "They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless." -Thomas Jefferson GOVERNMENT "In each new Congress since 1995, Rep. John Shadegg (R-AZ) has introduced the Enumerated Powers Act (HR 1359)... Simply put, if enacted, the Enumerated Powers Act would require Congress to specify the basis of authority in the U.S. Constitution for the enactment of laws and other congressional actions. HR 1359 has 28 co-sponsors in the House of Representatives. When Shadegg introduced the Enumerated Powers Act, he explained that the Constitution gives the federal government great, but limited, powers. Its framers granted Congress, as the central mechanism for protecting liberty, specific rather than general powers. The Constitution gives Congress 18 specific enumerated powers, spelled out mostly in Article 1, Section 8. The framers reinforced that enumeration by the 10th Amendment, which reads: 'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved for the States respectively, or to the people.' Just a few of the numerous statements by our founders demonstrate that their vision and the vision of Shadegg's Enumerated Powers Act are one and the same... I salute the bravery of Rep. Shadegg and the 28 co-sponsors of the Enumerated Powers Act. They have a monumental struggle. Congress is not alone in its constitutional contempt, but is joined by the White House and particularly the constitutionally derelict U.S. Supreme Court." -Walter Williams - Original Message - From: "Dan Nave" To: Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 5:37 AM Subject: RE: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 -Original Message- From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org] Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:23 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 On 10/27/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: > It was created because no one was doing *any* job. That was the *excuse* provided... but it was a MANUFACTURED one. It isn't the Federal Governments JOB to police the food supply. If you disagree, please point to the Article:Section:Clause in the Constitution that delegates this authority. And please don't waste my time yammering about 'the general welfare' clause - it ISN'T a delegation of authority, and has no meaning, except for power-hungry mad-men and gullible fools... Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
On 10/29/2007, Dan Nave (dan.n...@nilfisk-advance.com) wrote: And please don't waste my time yammering about 'the general welfare' clause - it ISN'T a delegation of authority, and has no meaning, except for power-hungry mad-men and gullible fools... Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; Like I said... this is NOT a specific delegation of authority... Read the debates (Federalist, Anti-federalist, Elliots) on the Constitution... this mention of 'general Welfare' doesn't mean ANYTHING like what you seem to think it means... otherwise, what would be the point of all of the specific delegations that follow? -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
RE: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
-Original Message- From: Simon Jester [mailto:tansta...@libertytrek.org] Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:23 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 On 10/27/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: > It was created because no one was doing *any* job. That was the *excuse* provided... but it was a MANUFACTURED one. It isn't the Federal Governments JOB to police the food supply. If you disagree, please point to the Article:Section:Clause in the Constitution that delegates this authority. And please don't waste my time yammering about 'the general welfare' clause - it ISN'T a delegation of authority, and has no meaning, except for power-hungry mad-men and gullible fools... Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
If overt is blocked, go subvert. It can be long quiet haul, but a better idea trumps a bad one. Subversion sneaks it into the back door, into common use and "traditional" before the guards know to look away from the gates. The LAW outlines minimal expectations of civility. It does have glitches to go around and not get caught at. Calm and quiet makes that fairly easy as they focus on noise and dissent. Self control means to exceed those minimal expectations. Not above the law, but beyond it. Ode At 04:37 PM 10/27/2007 +0005, you wrote: Cross-posting to the OT list so we can start migrating things there... Ken writes: > We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, > then whine when they do...and whine when they don't. "Some people," Ken, do not whine when they don't control us. We're surprised and relieved. We don't *want* them to control us. We *can* control ourselves. > If you have a better idea, implement it. If it IS a better idea, it > will catch on. And those currently in power don't put any insurmountable barriers in the way of *that*, of course! Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1096 - Release Date: 10/27/2007 11:02 AM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1096 - Release Date: 10/27/2007 11:02 AM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1096 - Release Date: 10/27/2007 11:02 AM
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
- Original Message - From: "Ode Coyote" To: Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 11:39 AM Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 I didn't object to the fact that you have a different view or opinion. What I objected to was several of your statements of facts that were not credible to me. You make broad assumptions about things that may in fact have no basis other than your own opinion. Below, I have made comments. > > > >We don't pay the FDA enough to do thier job. Fact. The fact is that last year Congress authorized millions more dollars for FDA testing. What happened to the money? (Reported on Lou Dobb's last week) Rather than an increase of testing,-the money was given out in the form of bonus's to top appointed official (Puppets) at the FDA. > > > > > > Nor have we defined what it is specifically enough for our vague rules to > > > be followed. You offer no proof of this being true. > > > All we can do is bitch and snipe when something goes wrong. > > > It was created because no one was doing *any* job. > > > No, it isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. > > > Yes, the system does need an overhaul. > > > Who pays for that overhaul? HOW, should it be changed? The first, best change would be to get rid of the appointed puppets that have been put in place to thwart oversight and prevent all the good employees from doing their jobs. > > > We piss and moan, but don't want the responsibility of paying up and > > > being in charge. If you want to change a corrupt and broken system maybe some folks do need to speak up and inform others. This sounds to me like you are suggesting,- shut-up and put-up. Your a whinner if you don't. > > > If we DID fund them enough to protect us absolutely, as we > > > demandwe'd all starve. > > > Inspect every leaf, every hunk of meat? Nothing left to eat. A better suggestion is to stop subsidizing factory farm food. When the mad cow situation came to light what happened to inspections? They decreased down to nothing. Was this a money problem or a political move to protect big beef industry? We can support local, family farms if we want good product. And, by the way, most of us do. Most of us if given the choice would prefer locally produced goods. We do it with our dollars already. It is our elected officials who represent the corporate interests that have favored corporate farming with their subsidies. > > > > > > GE: > > > Mitochondria DNA tracing along with some interpretations of history > > > strongly suggests that virtually all of our farm crops and domestic > > > animals...and we ourselves, were genetically engineered...and we are, and > > > they are, of course, "perfect". > > > No one is allergic to sheep, or peanuts, or corn, or wheat, or .. > > > How many versions of human just plain "failed"? This is your opinion and if you want to think that it is okay with me. However, if that were true, we somehow adjusted to particular foods during all those years since. It doesn't mean that now we can adjust to inserted pestisides and other genes in our food. What about suicide seeds? You think those are designed to feed the starving masses too? Get a grip. You are much too smart for that BS. > > > > > > Any changes present problems to some people. > > > Every endeavor includes a possibility of error. What we are talking about is deliberate. > > > Nothing happens without cost and benefit considerations. > > > Every human is motivated by self interest. Call that greed? OK, Call > >it > > > greed. > > > And everything starts with not knowing what you're doing. > > > Nothing, is what needs to be done? > > > OK, do nothing. > > > Telling everyone else they are wrong, is, doing nothing. > > > Congratulations, you have succeeded. [in wasting valuable intelligence and > > > effort on nothing ] Your opinion only. I could say the same. > > > > > > So here we have a system by default that, if even a very small percentage > > > of people have a problem, whole fields of endeavor grind to a halt, > > > regardless of any over all benefit. > > > We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, > > > then whine when they do...and whine when they don't Anyone out there whining for more government intrusion and control? Nope not me. > > > Yes, it is a bit more than a touch ignorant. It's a representative > > > government. > > > They all are. Even the totalitarian ones. We no longer have a democratic government
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
On 10/27/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: It was created because no one was doing *any* job. That was the *excuse* provided... but it was a MANUFACTURED one. It isn't the Federal Governments JOB to police the food supply. If you disagree, please point to the Article:Section:Clause in the Constitution that delegates this authority. And please don't waste my time yammering about 'the general welfare' clause - it ISN'T a delegation of authority, and has no meaning, except for power-hungry mad-men and gullible fools... No, it isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. It isn't that the FDA system is imperfect... it works in the exact OPPOSITE role that it was sold to the gullible American public. Yes, the system does need an overhaul. No, it needs to be scrapped, and we need to return to a system where people are responsible for their own actions, decisions and choices. Who pays for that overhaul? The only cost would be for the investigations and criminal prosecutions... negligible, when compared to what the system is costing us today, and this would only be for a year or two until the prosecutions and executions were carried out. ? HOW, should it be changed? 1. Abolish the Agency and all related offices and functions, 2. Initiate UNBIASED investigations into the criminal collusion and conspiracy between FDA principals and the Pharmaceutical/Medical Industry, 3. File appropriate criminal charges once the criminal relationships and acts have been well defined. 4. Execute the guilty. If you supported the execution of Saddam Hussein, you should support the execution of those responsible for the suffering and sometimes lingering deaths of millions of people. The evidence is in plain sight, so this really wouldn't be hard to do. We piss and moan, but don't want the responsibility of paying up and being in charge. YOU may piss and moan... I certainly don't. All I want is for these bastards to get the hell out of my life and allow me to live it the way I want to. If I want to buy raw milk from a farmer, who the hell are THEY - or YOU - to tell me I can't? If we DID fund them enough to protect us absolutely, as we demandwe'd all starve. Inspect every leaf, every hunk of meat? Nothing left to eat. I agree... and their 'rules' (like pasteurization of milk) in reality accomplish the very OPPOSITE of what they intended - they allow milk producers to be as lax as they want when it comes to cleanliness of their equipment and methods, because all they have to do is pasteurize the milk, and they think that is good enough. It is a JOKE. GE: Mitochondria DNA tracing along with some interpretations of history strongly suggests that virtually all of our farm crops and domestic animals...and we ourselves, were genetically engineered...and we are, and they are, of course, "perfect". Do you really want to bring Zacharia Sitchin and his writings into this argument? No one is allergic to sheep, or peanuts, or corn, or wheat, or .. How many versions of human just plain "failed"? Strawman from a strawman. Telling everyone else they are wrong, is, doing nothing. Congratulations, you have succeeded. [in wasting valuable intelligence and effort on nothing ] Only if you ass-u-me that I want to 'replace' it with something. I do not. As I have repeatedly stated - I WANT THEM - AND YOU - TO LEAVE ME THE F**K ALONE AND LET ME BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MY OWN LIFE. We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, True for many, but certainly not applicable to me or my friends (I'm not friends with people who are part of the problem). And no, I don't 'respect the viewpoints' of those who would see everyone in chains, just because they are deathly afraid of a germ so tiny they cannot see it. I do not respect the opinions and viewpoints of criminals, when those opinions and viewpoints include concepts that they own my life or any part of it. then whine when they do...and whine when they don't. Speak for yourself, Ode-to-big-brother. I DO control myself - though sometimes I tend to lose it when someone tries to tell me that they have a Right to my life, or even a small part of it... Yes, it is a bit more than a touch ignorant. It's a representative government. They all are. Even the totalitarian ones. Sorry, you must have me confused with someone who believes your rants. Even Monsanto can't survive without the buyers consent and participation. Consent and participation based on lies, deceit, fraud and extortion. If they were not allowed to get away with all of the marketing LIES, and then protected by their servants (government thugs) when people like me try to point this out - and then defended by people like YOU who are too smart for their own good and think they know what they are talking about, then most people would NOT buy their garbage. But I do agree that, to an extent, 'the majority' are responsible for this problem. One of the things that
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
Taking in a broader view never stifles intelligent discussions. It does make them more complicated, which takes more intelligence to discuss intelligently. Dismissing facts in favor of other facts that skew conclusions is the dis-information. It's exactly what "silver listers" say Stephen Barrett does on Quackwatch concerning CS. Pat Condemnation seeking agreement isn't a discussion at all. ..it's commiseration. Fact is, the facts ARE muddled. [SNAFU ] It's is not "this OR that" it's "this AND that " ...with all the conflicts of not all bad and not all good. Sort of like "reality". OK Hang em all.and then what? The FDA isn't the only self conflicted mixed intent and application entity there is. It could be better, and so could everyone. Ode At 10:47 AM 10/27/2007 -0400, you wrote: This disinformation and muddling of facts is not at all helpful and appears to attempt to stifle intelligent discussion. Paula - Original Message - From: "Ode Coyote" To: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 > > >We don't pay the FDA enough to do thier job. Fact. > > Nor have we defined what it is specifically enough for our vague rules to > be followed. > All we can do is bitch and snipe when something goes wrong. > It was created because no one was doing *any* job. > No, it isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. > Yes, the system does need an overhaul. > Who pays for that overhaul? HOW, should it be changed? > We piss and moan, but don't want the responsibility of paying up and > being in charge. > If we DID fund them enough to protect us absolutely, as we > demandwe'd all starve. > Inspect every leaf, every hunk of meat? Nothing left to eat. > > GE: > Mitochondria DNA tracing along with some interpretations of history > strongly suggests that virtually all of our farm crops and domestic > animals...and we ourselves, were genetically engineered...and we are, and > they are, of course, "perfect". > No one is allergic to sheep, or peanuts, or corn, or wheat, or .. > How many versions of human just plain "failed"? > > Any changes present problems to some people. > Every endeavor includes a possibility of error. > Nothing happens without cost and benefit considerations. > Every human is motivated by self interest. Call that greed? OK, Call it > greed. > And everything starts with not knowing what you're doing. > Nothing, is what needs to be done? > OK, do nothing. > Telling everyone else they are wrong, is, doing nothing. > Congratulations, you have succeeded. [in wasting valuable intelligence and > effort on nothing ] > > So here we have a system by default that, if even a very small percentage > of people have a problem, whole fields of endeavor grind to a halt, > regardless of any over all benefit. > We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, > then whine when they do...and whine when they don't. > Yes, it is a bit more than a touch ignorant. It's a representative > government. > They all are. Even the totalitarian ones. > > Even Monsanto can't survive without the buyers consent and participation. > Monsanto is "people" who eat the unlabeled foods they engineer. Those > are not "different" people. > They have children and relatives too. > They are self interested like everyone else. > They see and suffer the cost just like everyone else, but also have a > birds eye view of benefit that no one wants to look at. > Every change has it's risk. No attempt in the face of inevitable change, > is even riskier. > Problems and imperfections? OF COURSE! [If anyone knew what they were > doing, it would already be done. ] > > If you have a better idea, implement it. > If it IS a better idea, it will catch on. > A real winner doesn't have to make everything else out to be a loser. > That's what losers do to make themselves out to *look like* winners. > I can't, because "they" won't? Loser!! > > There are just no absolutes on planet Earth. > It's ALL process, and all process includes errors. > ..and all errors include resistance to acknowledgement. > > A better idea that really IS better, makes errors AND resistance a moot > and forgotten point. > Beating your brains out against obstacles, gets you beaten brains. "GO > AROUND" > > Only an idiot believes he can make idiots smarter by yelling "stupid" at them. > [ And only an idiot would listen to them yell. ] > > Help me, help me! ...No, not like that! &g
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
Cross-posting to the OT list so we can start migrating things there... Ken writes: > We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, > then whine when they do...and whine when they don't. "Some people," Ken, do not whine when they don't control us. We're surprised and relieved. We don't *want* them to control us. We *can* control ourselves. > If you have a better idea, implement it. If it IS a better idea, it > will catch on. And those currently in power don't put any insurmountable barriers in the way of *that*, of course! Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@eskimo.com] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
On 10/27/2007, Clayton Family (clay...@skypoint.com) wrote: It has been designed to do so. And the chem companies have even gone to the extremes to defeat all efforts to have any labels at all. There are alot of people that want labeling, at the least, but they have lost the fight because of the disinformation campaigns run by these huge companies. And their voluntary apologists/defenders like Ode - who actually do far more damage in my opinion because of the obvious sincerity... is he a paid schill? Probably not, most paid schills would not do as good of a job... -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
On 10/27/2007, David (dr...@montrose.net) wrote: One of the best posts I've seem... Thanks Rotflmaoayii... -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
It has been designed to do so. And the chem companies have even gone to the extremes to defeat all efforts to have any labels at all. There are alot of people that want labeling, at the least, but they have lost the fight because of the disinformation campaigns run by these huge companies. On Oct 27, 2007, at 9:47 AM, Paula Perry wrote: This disinformation and muddling of facts is not at all helpful and appears to attempt to stifle intelligent discussion. Paula - Original Message - From: "Ode Coyote" To: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 We don't pay the FDA enough to do thier job. Fact. Nor have we defined what it is specifically enough for our vague rules to be followed. All we can do is bitch and snipe when something goes wrong. It was created because no one was doing *any* job. No, it isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. Yes, the system does need an overhaul. Who pays for that overhaul? HOW, -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
This disinformation and muddling of facts is not at all helpful and appears to attempt to stifle intelligent discussion. Paula - Original Message - From: "Ode Coyote" To: Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:20 AM Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 > > >We don't pay the FDA enough to do thier job. Fact. > > Nor have we defined what it is specifically enough for our vague rules to > be followed. > All we can do is bitch and snipe when something goes wrong. > It was created because no one was doing *any* job. > No, it isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. > Yes, the system does need an overhaul. > Who pays for that overhaul? HOW, should it be changed? > We piss and moan, but don't want the responsibility of paying up and > being in charge. > If we DID fund them enough to protect us absolutely, as we > demandwe'd all starve. > Inspect every leaf, every hunk of meat? Nothing left to eat. > > GE: > Mitochondria DNA tracing along with some interpretations of history > strongly suggests that virtually all of our farm crops and domestic > animals...and we ourselves, were genetically engineered...and we are, and > they are, of course, "perfect". > No one is allergic to sheep, or peanuts, or corn, or wheat, or .. > How many versions of human just plain "failed"? > > Any changes present problems to some people. > Every endeavor includes a possibility of error. > Nothing happens without cost and benefit considerations. > Every human is motivated by self interest. Call that greed? OK, Call it > greed. > And everything starts with not knowing what you're doing. > Nothing, is what needs to be done? > OK, do nothing. > Telling everyone else they are wrong, is, doing nothing. > Congratulations, you have succeeded. [in wasting valuable intelligence and > effort on nothing ] > > So here we have a system by default that, if even a very small percentage > of people have a problem, whole fields of endeavor grind to a halt, > regardless of any over all benefit. > We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, > then whine when they do...and whine when they don't. > Yes, it is a bit more than a touch ignorant. It's a representative > government. > They all are. Even the totalitarian ones. > > Even Monsanto can't survive without the buyers consent and participation. > Monsanto is "people" who eat the unlabeled foods they engineer. Those > are not "different" people. > They have children and relatives too. > They are self interested like everyone else. > They see and suffer the cost just like everyone else, but also have a > birds eye view of benefit that no one wants to look at. > Every change has it's risk. No attempt in the face of inevitable change, > is even riskier. > Problems and imperfections? OF COURSE! [If anyone knew what they were > doing, it would already be done. ] > > If you have a better idea, implement it. > If it IS a better idea, it will catch on. > A real winner doesn't have to make everything else out to be a loser. > That's what losers do to make themselves out to *look like* winners. > I can't, because "they" won't? Loser!! > > There are just no absolutes on planet Earth. > It's ALL process, and all process includes errors. > ..and all errors include resistance to acknowledgement. > > A better idea that really IS better, makes errors AND resistance a moot > and forgotten point. > Beating your brains out against obstacles, gets you beaten brains. "GO > AROUND" > > Only an idiot believes he can make idiots smarter by yelling "stupid" at them. > [ And only an idiot would listen to them yell. ] > > Help me, help me! ...No, not like that! > How then? > If I knew that, I wouldn't have hired you to tell me. > That makes me the expert and you the fool? > Noise is knowledge in action? > Yup. > > The clinking sound a coin makes when thrown away, buys one nothing. > [Discount today, 3 nothings for a single clink. ] > ...always a highly successful sale day, drawing crowds of buyers. > > Law of demand and supply: [It's NOT the other way around.] > Where-so-ever there be buyers, so shall there be sellers. > > Buy into your helplessness?? So shall it be sold to you. > > I've met a lot of people with a "saviour complex". > All they know is how to put others down and any "plan" they may have is > so full of holes, it won't even hold boulders. > Never mind "my" plan that CAN'T work in any version o
RE: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
One of the best posts I've seem... Thanks -Original Message- From: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com [mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com] On Behalf Of Ode Coyote Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:20 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06 >We don't pay the FDA enough to do thier job. Fact. Nor have we defined what it is specifically enough for our vague rules to be followed. All we can do is bitch and snipe when something goes wrong. It was created because no one was doing *any* job. No, it isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. Yes, the system does need an overhaul. Who pays for that overhaul? HOW, should it be changed? We piss and moan, but don't want the responsibility of paying up and being in charge. If we DID fund them enough to protect us absolutely, as we demandwe'd all starve. Inspect every leaf, every hunk of meat? Nothing left to eat. GE: Mitochondria DNA tracing along with some interpretations of history strongly suggests that virtually all of our farm crops and domestic animals...and we ourselves, were genetically engineered...and we are, and they are, of course, "perfect". No one is allergic to sheep, or peanuts, or corn, or wheat, or .. How many versions of human just plain "failed"? Any changes present problems to some people. Every endeavor includes a possibility of error. Nothing happens without cost and benefit considerations. Every human is motivated by self interest. Call that greed? OK, Call it greed. And everything starts with not knowing what you're doing. Nothing, is what needs to be done? OK, do nothing. Telling everyone else they are wrong, is, doing nothing. Congratulations, you have succeeded. [in wasting valuable intelligence and effort on nothing ] So here we have a system by default that, if even a very small percentage of people have a problem, whole fields of endeavor grind to a halt, regardless of any over all benefit. We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, then whine when they do...and whine when they don't. Yes, it is a bit more than a touch ignorant. It's a representative government. They all are. Even the totalitarian ones. Even Monsanto can't survive without the buyers consent and participation. Monsanto is "people" who eat the unlabeled foods they engineer. Those are not "different" people. They have children and relatives too. They are self interested like everyone else. They see and suffer the cost just like everyone else, but also have a birds eye view of benefit that no one wants to look at. Every change has it's risk. No attempt in the face of inevitable change, is even riskier. Problems and imperfections? OF COURSE! [If anyone knew what they were doing, it would already be done. ] If you have a better idea, implement it. If it IS a better idea, it will catch on. A real winner doesn't have to make everything else out to be a loser. That's what losers do to make themselves out to *look like* winners. I can't, because "they" won't? Loser!! There are just no absolutes on planet Earth. It's ALL process, and all process includes errors. ..and all errors include resistance to acknowledgement. A better idea that really IS better, makes errors AND resistance a moot and forgotten point. Beating your brains out against obstacles, gets you beaten brains. "GO AROUND" Only an idiot believes he can make idiots smarter by yelling "stupid" at them. [ And only an idiot would listen to them yell. ] Help me, help me! ...No, not like that! How then? If I knew that, I wouldn't have hired you to tell me. That makes me the expert and you the fool? Noise is knowledge in action? Yup. The clinking sound a coin makes when thrown away, buys one nothing. [Discount today, 3 nothings for a single clink. ] ...always a highly successful sale day, drawing crowds of buyers. Law of demand and supply: [It's NOT the other way around.] Where-so-ever there be buyers, so shall there be sellers. Buy into your helplessness?? So shall it be sold to you. I've met a lot of people with a "saviour complex". All they know is how to put others down and any "plan" they may have is so full of holes, it won't even hold boulders. Never mind "my" plan that CAN'T work in any version of a real world look at theirs that isn't doing very well!! Idi Amin was one of those "saviours" He truly believed he could and the people of Uganda bought it...believing, like Amin, that "they" were the problem, so eliminating "them" was a solution. It was found out the hard way, There is no "they" and "them" is, us, denying our own identity. and the res
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
At 03:09 PM 10/26/2007 -0500, you wrote: Yes, I had heard that too. I knew one who took tryptophan for a long time prior to that batch with good results. I read that that was a bad batch, and then the FDA decided to ban it, which seemed pretty extreme to me at the time. The genetic engineering in food *really* compromises the value of it- it becomes harmful instead of healthful. I have felt SO MUCH better since getting very strict about the organic food, doing cs, and stopping all medicines. ## You have taken responsibility and put your beliefs into considered action. Good for you. If everyone did that, it would be a whole different situation. But, it is risky, so almost no one does... even *if* it's actually less risky. It is no coincidence that there is such a huge rise in anaphylactic allergy- that is just what you should expect when giving everyone GMO foods. All allergies are on the rise, and it is my belief that the gmo products are causing it. The companies that produce it are extremely careful to ensure that none of their foods can be traced back to them, as they could lose their shirts legally. I wonder how much it has cost them to pay off the right people to keep us from having labeled GMO products that can be traced back to the source.. ## Which could just as well be that children are no longer allowed to eat mud pies...or [GASP] that going to extremes to save every child no matter how defective, is bleeding the strength of the Gene pool. What happened to natural birth...and the infant mortality rate that goes with it? How does protecting anyone make them smarter or stronger? Going organic may be a viable alternative, so, go organic. "Do it" Even if it isn't, there are other good reasons to and doing so, takes sales power away from GMO by "application" of a better power, making GMO a non enemy, gone around. "Your" label makes their lack of labeling irrelevant. Buy "your" story and theirs is history unsold. If it really IS better and worth the effort, that's where it will all wind up. If you know a good horse, feed it and ride itand all the donkeys will bray into the breeze, unused and unfed. But, if you fall offit's your horse. Can't bray at donkeys, any more. "Not doing" falls short of any ride that has reins, no way around that. And no one that won't pick up his own reins, can legitimately complain about where donkeys take them. The "people" have ALL the power. Using it is always scary...so, most just give it away. [to others who may not care how scared you are..and/or..sell you your own fear. ] That's right. Even the "Pharm" cannot survive without your fear and faith. It has no power of its own. None, at all. It relies entirely on dependence for its existence. So, how can it be an "enemy" if those willing to walk, can walk right around it ? Ode On Oct 26, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Simon Jester wrote: On 10/26/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: Yes, "flooded" is the correct term. [maybe not "inundated" ] That Japanese outfit was HUGE and made tryptofan a lot cheaper than anyone else using their new [faulty] process. It was due to using GENETICALLY ENGINEERED BACTERIA... they had been producing tryptophan for many years prior to that. Had the FDA kept that crap out of our food supply (read: BEEN DOING THEIR SUPPOSED JOB), it never would have happened. But no, your (apparently beloved) FDA approves of this junk wholeheartedly. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 7:54 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 7:54 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1095 - Release Date: 10/26/2007 7:54 PM
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
We don't pay the FDA enough to do thier job. Fact. Nor have we defined what it is specifically enough for our vague rules to be followed. All we can do is bitch and snipe when something goes wrong. It was created because no one was doing *any* job. No, it isn't perfect, nothing is perfect. Yes, the system does need an overhaul. Who pays for that overhaul? HOW, should it be changed? We piss and moan, but don't want the responsibility of paying up and being in charge. If we DID fund them enough to protect us absolutely, as we demandwe'd all starve. Inspect every leaf, every hunk of meat? Nothing left to eat. GE: Mitochondria DNA tracing along with some interpretations of history strongly suggests that virtually all of our farm crops and domestic animals...and we ourselves, were genetically engineered...and we are, and they are, of course, "perfect". No one is allergic to sheep, or peanuts, or corn, or wheat, or .. How many versions of human just plain "failed"? Any changes present problems to some people. Every endeavor includes a possibility of error. Nothing happens without cost and benefit considerations. Every human is motivated by self interest. Call that greed? OK, Call it greed. And everything starts with not knowing what you're doing. Nothing, is what needs to be done? OK, do nothing. Telling everyone else they are wrong, is, doing nothing. Congratulations, you have succeeded. [in wasting valuable intelligence and effort on nothing ] So here we have a system by default that, if even a very small percentage of people have a problem, whole fields of endeavor grind to a halt, regardless of any over all benefit. We have Governments to control us because we don't control ourselves, then whine when they do...and whine when they don't. Yes, it is a bit more than a touch ignorant. It's a representative government. They all are. Even the totalitarian ones. Even Monsanto can't survive without the buyers consent and participation. Monsanto is "people" who eat the unlabeled foods they engineer. Those are not "different" people. They have children and relatives too. They are self interested like everyone else. They see and suffer the cost just like everyone else, but also have a birds eye view of benefit that no one wants to look at. Every change has it's risk. No attempt in the face of inevitable change, is even riskier. Problems and imperfections? OF COURSE! [If anyone knew what they were doing, it would already be done. ] If you have a better idea, implement it. If it IS a better idea, it will catch on. A real winner doesn't have to make everything else out to be a loser. That's what losers do to make themselves out to *look like* winners. I can't, because "they" won't? Loser!! There are just no absolutes on planet Earth. It's ALL process, and all process includes errors. ..and all errors include resistance to acknowledgement. A better idea that really IS better, makes errors AND resistance a moot and forgotten point. Beating your brains out against obstacles, gets you beaten brains. "GO AROUND" Only an idiot believes he can make idiots smarter by yelling "stupid" at them. [ And only an idiot would listen to them yell. ] Help me, help me! ...No, not like that! How then? If I knew that, I wouldn't have hired you to tell me. That makes me the expert and you the fool? Noise is knowledge in action? Yup. The clinking sound a coin makes when thrown away, buys one nothing. [Discount today, 3 nothings for a single clink. ] ...always a highly successful sale day, drawing crowds of buyers. Law of demand and supply: [It's NOT the other way around.] Where-so-ever there be buyers, so shall there be sellers. Buy into your helplessness?? So shall it be sold to you. I've met a lot of people with a "saviour complex". All they know is how to put others down and any "plan" they may have is so full of holes, it won't even hold boulders. Never mind "my" plan that CAN'T work in any version of a real world look at theirs that isn't doing very well!! Idi Amin was one of those "saviours" He truly believed he could and the people of Uganda bought it...believing, like Amin, that "they" were the problem, so eliminating "them" was a solution. It was found out the hard way, There is no "they" and "them" is, us, denying our own identity. and the responsibility that having an identity entails, along with the "true" power it gives. Ode Had the FDA kept that crap out of our food supply (read: BEEN DOING THEIR SUPPOSED JOB), it never would have happened. But no, your (apparently beloved) FDA approves of this junk wholeheartedly. If I recall, they did get their buttocks sued off, but none of the small guys re-packaging and re-selling it did. Why should they? Its the FDA that should have gotten sued. [balance snipped as meaningless sniping ] Meaning you have no answer to it... no, not everyone is evil
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
Yes, I had heard that too. I knew one who took tryptophan for a long time prior to that batch with good results. I read that that was a bad batch, and then the FDA decided to ban it, which seemed pretty extreme to me at the time. The genetic engineering in food *really* compromises the value of it- it becomes harmful instead of healthful. I have felt SO MUCH better since getting very strict about the organic food, doing cs, and stopping all medicines. It is no coincidence that there is such a huge rise in anaphylactic allergy- that is just what you should expect when giving everyone GMO foods. All allergies are on the rise, and it is my belief that the gmo products are causing it. The companies that produce it are extremely careful to ensure that none of their foods can be traced back to them, as they could lose their shirts legally. I wonder how much it has cost them to pay off the right people to keep us from having labeled GMO products that can be traced back to the source.. On Oct 26, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Simon Jester wrote: On 10/26/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: Yes, "flooded" is the correct term. [maybe not "inundated" ] That Japanese outfit was HUGE and made tryptofan a lot cheaper than anyone else using their new [faulty] process. It was due to using GENETICALLY ENGINEERED BACTERIA... they had been producing tryptophan for many years prior to that. Had the FDA kept that crap out of our food supply (read: BEEN DOING THEIR SUPPOSED JOB), it never would have happened. But no, your (apparently beloved) FDA approves of this junk wholeheartedly. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
On 10/26/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: Yes, "flooded" is the correct term. [maybe not "inundated" ] That Japanese outfit was HUGE and made tryptofan a lot cheaper than anyone else using their new [faulty] process. It was due to using GENETICALLY ENGINEERED BACTERIA... they had been producing tryptophan for many years prior to that. Had the FDA kept that crap out of our food supply (read: BEEN DOING THEIR SUPPOSED JOB), it never would have happened. But no, your (apparently beloved) FDA approves of this junk wholeheartedly. If I recall, they did get their buttocks sued off, but none of the small guys re-packaging and re-selling it did. Why should they? Its the FDA that should have gotten sued. [balance snipped as meaningless sniping ] Meaning you have no answer to it... no, not everyone is evil no matter who they work for, nor is the alt health industry a pack of benevolent angels. Never said either one, so fail to see your point. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
At 05:32 PM 10/25/2007 -0400, you wrote: On 10/25/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: L Tryptophan was temporarily banned because a huge Japanese company tried a new cheaper process of making it and it turned up being toxic, resulting in a few deaths. They had flooded the market 'Flooded the market'? They were selling a product... lets not make it into something it wasn't... ## Yes, "flooded" is the correct term. [maybe not "inundated" ] That Japanese outfit was HUGE and made tryptofan a lot cheaper than anyone else using their new [faulty] process. If I recall, they did get their buttocks sued off, but none of the small guys re-packaging and re-selling it did. [balance snipped as meaningless sniping ] no, not everyone is evil no matter who they work for, nor is the alt health industry a pack of benevolent angels. Both sides as a whole are "BIG business", the alt health side has more opportunity for the small guy...and the fraudulent / ignorant , less opportunity for committing high tech error and causing deaths, but not none. It's two sides of the same consumer fear based profit margins coin. BIG $$$, all around ...with intermixed stock and company ownerships playing both sides at once. Ode -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1093 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 5:38 PM -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
At 12:46 PM 10/25/2007 -0400, you wrote: Ode Coyote wrote: L Tryptophan was temporarily banned because a huge Japanese company tried a new cheaper process of making it and it turned up being toxic, resulting in a few deaths. They had flooded the market with no way to trace what Tryptofan was in what bottle, so it was ALL recalled and banned from sale till it was all made safe again. How would they not know what was in each bottle? That is like one dairy getting some poison in their milk, and them outlawing all milk from all dairies for almost 20 years. Makes no sense. Companies who are packaging and shipping a product know where they bought it from. They track every ingredient, and if they bought some from a specific company, they can use the date code or product code they stamp on each bottle to figure out where every single ingredient in that bottle came from. That is the way it is done. When I made colloidal silver, I recorded the date code of every bottle of distilled water that went into a batch. So if they announced that one of the bottles had toxic chemicals in it, I could easily recall those bottles of CS made with it. This is industry wide practice, and a legal requirement for ISO 9000 products. Marshall ## The "Herbal" market is not regulated quite like the drug market. Anyone can buy bulk from many sources and fill a bottle from a hopperand do so quite often when packaging colloidal silver they didn't make. They don't even know how it was made in most cases. You can only label according to your best of knowledge and if the bulk label reads L Tryptophan and a batch number, that's all you know about it. Did they record that and follow it to every serialized bottle? Probably not. How many had bought large bulk and resold smaller bulk? If you only use one source, only straight from the factory, maybe then you can keep track, but in the case of deadly contamination possible and somewhat lax source tracking and mixing practices, they weren't taking any chances. ode -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1093 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 5:38 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1093 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 5:38 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.11/1093 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 5:38 PM
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
That essay by Marshall Smith was interesting, but after reading BROJON for many months, I came to have nagging doubts about the author, who seems to be an authority on anything and everything, and, in his own mind, consistently finds brilliant insights and solutions where everyone else has failed.Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to follow up on very much. The article he wrote, if it is true, has information that could win someone a Nobel Prize in medicine. Suppose it's true that half of all Americans have sub-clinical trichinosis from factory-farmed pork, as the essay claimed? Verification of that would change a great many things in the USA, that's for sure. But where's the evidence and the follow up? Big claims require big evidence. Unfortunately, I've never heard anything more about it.That doesn't mean it isn't true, but it it raises a few red flags. Anyway, at least tryptophan is back on the market, and Marshall Smith's essay is definitely still worth a read, especially if tryptophan could serve as a safe prozac substitute. The stories about prozac side-effects are hair-raising. Thanks for reminding us about that article. I no longer subscribe to BROJON -- I got fed up with it -- but I'd be deeply impressed if it turns out he's right about trichinosis. BTW -- I read just today that scientists are speculating that abnormal prions may NOT be the cause of BSE or CJD, the human version. Check New Scientist. If not, EIS could turn out to be of some use to sufferers, or as prophylaxis. On Thursday, Oct 25, 2007, at 05:30 Asia/Tokyo, julie martin wrote: for those who may be interested. --- "Jonathan B. Britten" wrote: List, Many members know about big Pharm fraud, but few examples are as compelling at the L-Tryptophan scam, which I recall very, very well. BROJON, although being rather uneven in my opinion, has a great piece which I am pasting below. THE INSIDER'S STORY OF AN L-TRYPTOPHAN RESEARCHER A Response To Reader's Requests -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
Ah. Yes, that was interesting, though after reading BROJON for many months, I came to have nagging doubts about the author, who seems to be an authority on anything and everything, and, in his own mind, consistently finds brilliant insights and solutions where everyone else has failed.Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to follow up on very much. The sited article, if it is true, could win someone a Nobel Prize in medicine. Suppose it's true that half of all Americans have sub-clinical trichinosis from factory-farmed pork, as the essay claimed? Verification of that would change a great many things in the USA, that's for sure. But where's the evidence and the follow up? Big claims require big evidence. Unfortunately, I've never heard anything more about it.That doesn't mean it isn't true, but it it raises a few red flags. Anyway, at least tryptophan is back on the market, and Marshall Smith's essay is definitely still worth a read, especially if tryptophan could serve as a safe prozac substitute. The stories about prozac side-effects are hair-raising. Thanks for reminding us about that article. I no longer subscribe to BROJON -- I got fed up with it -- but I'd be deeply impressed if it turns out he's right about trichinosis. BTW -- I read just today that scientists are speculating that abnormal prions may NOT be the cause of BSE or CJD, the human version. Check New Scientist. If not, EIS could turn out to be of some use to sufferers, or as prophylaxis. On Thursday, Oct 25, 2007, at 05:30 Asia/Tokyo, julie martin wrote: for those who may be interested. --- "Jonathan B. Britten" wrote: List, Many members know about big Pharm fraud, but few examples are as compelling at the L-Tryptophan scam, which I recall very, very well. BROJON, although being rather uneven in my opinion, has a great piece which I am pasting below. THE INSIDER'S STORY OF AN L-TRYPTOPHAN RESEARCHER A Response To Reader's Requests -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
On 10/25/2007, Ode Coyote (odecoy...@alltel.net) wrote: L Tryptophan was temporarily banned because a huge Japanese company tried a new cheaper process of making it and it turned up being toxic, resulting in a few deaths. They had flooded the market 'Flooded the market'? They were selling a product... lets not make it into something it wasn't... Now, if you want to talk about how pharmaceutical companies - with the help and blessings of the FDA - are 'flooding the market' with dangerous and COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY 'cholesterol lowering drugs' (among hundreds of other things) - then yes, you would have a valid point. so it was ALL recalled and banned from sale till it was all made safe again. Yep - a few deaths = total ban at gunpoint. Let's see - how many deaths a year are there from prescription drugs (overdoses, wrongly prescribed, or interactions)? Over a HUNDRED THOUSAND... The "Alt Health" industry is almost as big a business as the "Pharm", Poppycock... it is certainly way more commercialized than I would like - but saying they are "almost as big as the 'Pharm'" is like saying I'm "almost as famous as 'Elvis'" but with fewer regulations and less accountability. Because fewer are needed. Most natural health products are not toxic chemical poisons, like pharmaceutical drugs are. Lots of crap that doesn't do you any GOOD being sold, sure - but at least it doesn't KILL you 99.99% of the time. When the "Pharm" screws up, they get sued big time. Too big to hide, big enough to make a hard fight. Pharmaceutical companies enjoy varying degrees of liability protection, and have virtually unlimited resources to fight these lawsuits - but yes, they still get sued, and in most cases, RIGHTLY SO. Not to mention the fact most of their INDIVIDUAL 'products' have killed FAR more people than ALL of the natural health products COMBINED. When "alt health" screws up, most just fade out of sight. ?? More like, people go to JAIL... or are driven out of business by armed thugs (FDA goon squads) like Dr Schulze's clinic. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
Ode Coyote wrote: L Tryptophan was temporarily banned because a huge Japanese company tried a new cheaper process of making it and it turned up being toxic, resulting in a few deaths. They had flooded the market with no way to trace what Tryptofan was in what bottle, so it was ALL recalled and banned from sale till it was all made safe again. How would they not know what was in each bottle? That is like one dairy getting some poison in their milk, and them outlawing all milk from all dairies for almost 20 years. Makes no sense. Companies who are packaging and shipping a product know where they bought it from. They track every ingredient, and if they bought some from a specific company, they can use the date code or product code they stamp on each bottle to figure out where every single ingredient in that bottle came from. That is the way it is done. When I made colloidal silver, I recorded the date code of every bottle of distilled water that went into a batch. So if they announced that one of the bottles had toxic chemicals in it, I could easily recall those bottles of CS made with it. This is industry wide practice, and a legal requirement for ISO 9000 products. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
L Tryptophan was temporarily banned because a huge Japanese company tried a new cheaper process of making it and it turned up being toxic, resulting in a few deaths. They had flooded the market with no way to trace what Tryptofan was in what bottle, so it was ALL recalled and banned from sale till it was all made safe again. The "Alt Health" industry is almost as big a business as the "Pharm", but with fewer regulations and less accountability. When the "Pharm" screws up, they get sued big time. Too big to hide, big enough to make a hard fight. When "alt health" screws up, most just fade out of sight. Many too fragmented to be found, some big enough to take on a fight. Both operate with huge profit margins. EVERYONE screws up, now and then. Ode At 01:30 PM 10/24/2007 -0700, you wrote: for those who may be interested. --- "Jonathan B. Britten" wrote: > List, > > Many members know about big Pharm fraud, but few > examples are as > compelling at the L-Tryptophan scam, which I recall > very, very well. > BROJON, although being rather uneven in my opinion, > has a great piece > which I am pasting below. > THE INSIDER'S STORY OF AN L-TRYPTOPHAN > RESEARCHER > A Response To > Reader's Requests > > I have received a number of letters to the editor > asking about which > L-tryptophan is the best and where to buy it. Many > readers want to > start using it each morning to maintain their > circadian rhythms. For > almost 20 years it has been impossible to purchase > L-tryptophan. So > where did I buy my tryptophan for my research for > the last 20 years? > > During the 1980's when I started my circadian rhythm > experiments, I > used the common L-tryptophan found in stores. I > soon found there were > two types --one with B6 and one without any B6. I > tried several brands > of each and found that the ones with B6 did not work > at all in my > experiments for shifting or controlling the > circadian rhythms. Thus > proving that B6 prevents tryptophan from getting > into the brain. Using > B6 will definitely disrupt your normal circadian > rhythms. > > I later found that almost all the L-tryptophan in > all brands was made > from the same bulk raw product from Japan. The > Showa Denko company had > developed a method of using genetically modified > bacteria to extract > copious amounts of L-tryptophan from milk. Since > the bacteria was > removed and reused, what remained was pure, cheap > L-tryptophan. It is > now the same method used for making all the other > amino acid products. > > In November 1989, the CDC made the false claim that > L-tryptophan was > causing a new disease or disorder called > Eosinophilia Myagia Syndrome > (EMS). The symptoms of EMS were exactly the same > as trichinosis. > Trichinosis is a parasite which comes from eating > improperly cooked > pork. My research found that about half of all > American's have > contracted the trichinosis parasite. But for most > people it is > sub-clinical, meaning most people don't even know > that they have > trichinosis. This sub-clinical form of the disease > is the primary > reason for most autoimmune disorders such as > fibromyagia and chronic > fatique syndrome. The body immune system attacks > itself in an attempt > to get rid of the parasite. The disease is caused > by microscopic worms > embedding by the millions into your muscles. Then > they form a tiny > impenetrable cyst which protects them from > medication and from your own > immune system. No effective medication has been > found for ridding the > body of trichinosis. > > For most people the original symptoms were a slight > fever like the flu, > and achy muscles as the trichinella enter the > muscles and become > encysted. It takes about a week and later those > early symptoms go > away and are forgotten. Those were exactly the same > symptoms which > were identified as EMS by the CDC. In the first > week after the CDC > alert for EMS, the doctors before reporting EMS > needed to perform a > trichinosis test. In the second week after the CDC > alert, the > trichinosis test requirement was strangely dropped, > so all the usual > hundreds of thousands of cases of trichinosis were > then falsely > reported to the CDC as the new tryptophan disorder, > EMS. > > The CDC also changed the reporting requirement to > include: observe the > symptoms and also, secondly interview the patient > for having previously > or still using L-tryptophan. Thus, suddenly this > became an > L-tryptophan disease. But it wasn't at all. It was > just the common > trichinosis. I was using L-tryptophan in my > research studies but I > never had any symptoms. Something was very wrong > with the CDC story > about EMS and the ban on sales of L-tryptophan. > > I suspected then that this was a fraudulent story > and I have kept in my > files, several years worth of all the CDC reports > and university > research reports into the s
Re: CS> tryptophan repost from june'06
for those who may be interested. --- "Jonathan B. Britten" wrote: > List, > > Many members know about big Pharm fraud, but few > examples are as > compelling at the L-Tryptophan scam, which I recall > very, very well. > BROJON, although being rather uneven in my opinion, > has a great piece > which I am pasting below. > THE INSIDER'S STORY OF AN L-TRYPTOPHAN > RESEARCHER > A Response To > Reader's Requests > > I have received a number of letters to the editor > asking about which > L-tryptophan is the best and where to buy it. Many > readers want to > start using it each morning to maintain their > circadian rhythms. For > almost 20 years it has been impossible to purchase > L-tryptophan. So > where did I buy my tryptophan for my research for > the last 20 years? > > During the 1980's when I started my circadian rhythm > experiments, I > used the common L-tryptophan found in stores. I > soon found there were > two types --one with B6 and one without any B6. I > tried several brands > of each and found that the ones with B6 did not work > at all in my > experiments for shifting or controlling the > circadian rhythms. Thus > proving that B6 prevents tryptophan from getting > into the brain. Using > B6 will definitely disrupt your normal circadian > rhythms. > > I later found that almost all the L-tryptophan in > all brands was made > from the same bulk raw product from Japan. The > Showa Denko company had > developed a method of using genetically modified > bacteria to extract > copious amounts of L-tryptophan from milk. Since > the bacteria was > removed and reused, what remained was pure, cheap > L-tryptophan. It is > now the same method used for making all the other > amino acid products. > > In November 1989, the CDC made the false claim that > L-tryptophan was > causing a new disease or disorder called > Eosinophilia Myagia Syndrome > (EMS). The symptoms of EMS were exactly the same > as trichinosis. > Trichinosis is a parasite which comes from eating > improperly cooked > pork. My research found that about half of all > American's have > contracted the trichinosis parasite. But for most > people it is > sub-clinical, meaning most people don't even know > that they have > trichinosis. This sub-clinical form of the disease > is the primary > reason for most autoimmune disorders such as > fibromyagia and chronic > fatique syndrome. The body immune system attacks > itself in an attempt > to get rid of the parasite. The disease is caused > by microscopic worms > embedding by the millions into your muscles. Then > they form a tiny > impenetrable cyst which protects them from > medication and from your own > immune system. No effective medication has been > found for ridding the > body of trichinosis. > > For most people the original symptoms were a slight > fever like the flu, > and achy muscles as the trichinella enter the > muscles and become > encysted. It takes about a week and later those > early symptoms go > away and are forgotten. Those were exactly the same > symptoms which > were identified as EMS by the CDC. In the first > week after the CDC > alert for EMS, the doctors before reporting EMS > needed to perform a > trichinosis test. In the second week after the CDC > alert, the > trichinosis test requirement was strangely dropped, > so all the usual > hundreds of thousands of cases of trichinosis were > then falsely > reported to the CDC as the new tryptophan disorder, > EMS. > > The CDC also changed the reporting requirement to > include: observe the > symptoms and also, secondly interview the patient > for having previously > or still using L-tryptophan. Thus, suddenly this > became an > L-tryptophan disease. But it wasn't at all. It was > just the common > trichinosis. I was using L-tryptophan in my > research studies but I > never had any symptoms. Something was very wrong > with the CDC story > about EMS and the ban on sales of L-tryptophan. > > I suspected then that this was a fraudulent story > and I have kept in my > files, several years worth of all the CDC reports > and university > research reports into the suspected causes for EMS. > The CDC even > blamed Showa Denko for making a contaminated product > and forced them > out of business. But NO cause of EMS was ever found > and the story was > quietly dropped, but the ban for local drug stores > to sell L-tryptophan > has remained. Mysteriously and quietly the ban on > sales has been > dropped in the last year and now many small sellers > are using the > Internet to push L-tryptophan. Why? What has > suddenly changed? > > The original reason for banning the sale of > L-tryptophan is still a > mystery. I suspected the illegal ban was bought and > paid for by Eli > Lilly which made nearly a trillion dollars by > selling Prozac, which was > designed to replace L-tryptophan as a means t
