RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Neville Munn]

Don't know if you've misunderstood David.  I'm referring to my not trusting 
wikipedia.  A bit like googling silver, probly the first articles that come up 
will tell the reader they'll turn blue if they consume it.  Wiki is mostly copy 
and paste material, or volunteered from mainstream and the general public from 
what I gather, at least with google, even though that's copy and paste as well, 
I can dig a lot deeper.  Subjective?...Objective?...Proof?...Studies...?
My readings indicate Rife was successful, however, I am encouraged to decide as 
an individual what material I put credence in, until proven beyond *my* 
reasonable doubt to the contrary.

N.

Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 22:46:05 -0700
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
From: aubuchon.da...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com

By the same arguments, one could ask where are all the studies on colloidal 
silver done by credible researchers?  Oops.
The funny thing about what constitutes objective proof, is that it is a 
subjective decision.

David
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:





Many seem to quote wikipedia, I doubt this source is all that reliable.  I 
certainly wouldn't quote from it as any form of authority on subject matters 
such as these anyway, and I'm only a mug punter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from all my readings about Rife his *personal* 
researched material was destroyed, and his sidekicks attempted to duplicate 
from memory did they not?  And I'm not exactly sure if *everything* he did was 
documented?  Again from my readings, he failed to repeat his purported 
successes after the ruination of him and the destruction of his material.

N.

 From: mrmon...@pstca.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 22:59:46 -0400
 
 Hi Jason,
 
 No reputable researcher has been able to duplicate Royal Rife's results.

 From Wikipedia:
 
 Rife's claims could not be independently replicated, [5] and were
 ultimately discredited by the medical profession in the 1950s.
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife

 

  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:

Many seem to quote wikipedia, I doubt this source is all that reliable.  I 
certainly wouldn't quote from it as any form of authority on subject matters 
such as these anyway, and I'm only a mug punter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from all my readings about Rife his *personal* 
researched material was destroyed, and his sidekicks attempted to duplicate 
from memory did they not?  And I'm not exactly sure if *everything* he did was 
documented?  Again from my readings, he failed to repeat his purported 
successes after the ruination of him and the destruction of his material.

N.

I did not invoke Rife. Jason did.

Wikipedia is far more accurate than the postings on this forum. Wikipedia
gives references. That rarely happens here.

Studies have shown Wikipedia is at least as accurate as Encyclopedia
Britannica. As in anything, you have to do your own research to verify the
facts. google is an excellent resource.

There is no need to invoke the destruction of Rife's equipment. The
references #5 and #8 in the Wikipedia rticle show the description of a
Zapper used to treat cancer based on Rife's design. It is similar to the
Zapper proposed by Clark, and would be equally incapable of doing anything
to reach or to harm bacteria. 

It would be impossible to destroy knowledge of such a simple device.

According to reference 8 in the Wikipedia article, The device was invented
a century ago by Albert Abrams (1864-1924), an American physician who
became a millionaire and was branded by the American Medical Association
the dean of gadget quacks.

His research was refined by a Californian pathologist, Raymond Royal Rife
(1888-1971)

If this device worked as claimed, there would have been no illness caused
by pathogens long before the start of WWII. There would be no need for the
discovery of penicillin and other antibiotics. Everyone would have one in
the home, and hospitals would be reduced to setting the occasional bone. We
would not have MRSA, and Lyme disease would not exist. There would be no
HIV.

None of this has come to pass.

Thanks,

Mike


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Sandee George]

Good morning Jason so which one of the zapper type machines would you  
recommend ?

Regards
Sandee
Attitude is everything !!


53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4fa507e1a5e8c105ac30st06duc

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Dok Dallas]

Hi Tony,

We sure were lucky this time, with having our (Sky) Marshall nearby, even if 
Sleeping?g
Yes, one sniff and Marshall made quick draw, on verbose shopping list, of 
Mike's rambling! 
I'm glad to see, HIJACK incident went without serious insult to SilverList 
members, except
I heard later, some were complaining of MIkeGRAINE Headaches and smelling...old 
Mold?

Looks like Mike D. is going to have to really get that damn [UNSUBSCRIBE] 
button fixed,
or next time it might be a (full-blown) Zombie Attack...including return of the 
Bad-Histava?
Before we blame technology, maybe Mike Lied (again) and never left List, like 
if Paranoid.

I'm retired Engineer, not-real Doctor, but @^@  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania
and if that don't help understanding personality problems, we can still call 
for a Krampus?
Over 50 years in Military  Aerospace Engineering... have run into many a 
Delusional EE.
From years of managing EE's, Mike's disruptive nature around others, is 
never...workable!   

With EE background, I already challenged Saint Michael last Fall, for missing 
Information
on how he was deriving measurements, etc. and I offered assistance.  I was then 
blocked
from any further postings in 'HIS' Y-GrOpE and he sent me 3~4 emails which I  
ignored ;~)
For months, simply sat back patiently waiting, watching and laughing at Mike 
screwing-up. 

He did not know answer to Electro-Chemistry question I asked: name for Res. (I) 
regulator
ckt. he used to control brew Cell current..?  Try~ 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanostat
Yes, Galvanostat/(Amprostat) are exactly the techniques Bob Beck used in his BE 
design
and also not recognized/understood by Russ at SOTA, or the Lizard Guy in 6V 
Germ-killer.
BTW, Saint Mike is now Persona-non-Grata in Lizard GrOpE...after posting on 
Chromium?

Godzilla always was/is Dangerous to user with Iontophoresis pumping potentially 
Toxic Ion
and while DC Zilla gets Germ Killer results, it pumps Bad (long term) Neuro 
Toxic, Cu Ions.
Of all the so called Zapper technologies over years (working, or not) only 
ZILLA, ION RISK!

Back 150+ years ago, Doctors safely used almost exactly same DC currents, to 
then Treat
rather than BURN patients...where now 150 years later Ignorant ZILLA users get 
3rd-degree
BURNS...which bG dismisses, as being only minor skin rash, that will 
eventually, go away?

Saint Michael most likely has never read up on how Doctors safely used Medical 
currents,
but give me until Sunday afternoon and I will post lost secrets URL, after Mike 
is sleeping?     
I'll offer you a BIG clue... when pumping (Metallic) Cations, negative trod is 
always HUGE,
Doctors fully understanding (+)  (-) trodes are not swappable, ZILLA users 
kept in DARK!

Now in May 2012, Silver Cell is a (childish) JOKE, of plastic-board, hot glue, 
stolen straws,
yet still we cannot Pin-Down source(s) of Contaminationnot seen, IN 
other...generators?
Last I heard...thought it was Sulfur, escaping from Gel-Cell batteries in 
emergency lighting,
but with years of fighting Mold Infestations and Herpes from girl friends Kid, 
WHO knows..?      
In (real world) design Engineering, Mike would never have survived past 90-Daze 
Probation!  

Not only did Saint Mike Hijack original Question, but he never even answered 
it, before he
proceeded to run on and on, with his own error ridden agenda(s), posting his 
GrOpE Links.
Tony, beware (as you are moderator) in [Beck-n-Stuff] Y-Group...I predict a 
Saint Mike, will
likely try to start preaching about Deadly (chromium) IONS, if using Stainless 
Steel trode?
Just remember, Robert Beck's Dr.Sci degrees are in Physics/(MSEE) and he 
understood,
all ramifications...of using type 316-SS Electrodes with a (4-HZ) Biphasic ION 
Pump/Trap!
If he dares to show up in any BECK groups...I will be glad to 
lecture...4-HZ/BiPhasic Trap.       

As we all grow older, hopefully we won't end...like Saint Mike?  
www.theDASHmovie.com

Please Note: I started reply ten hours ago (at Truck Stop) actual Send Time got 
delayed,
so now that I am back, live on-Internet...I see Saint Mike is still in here 
TROLLING along?
Not sure when, I'm on-line, but My Time is worth far more, than huge 
Pile-of-Monett.g

2nd opinion
Dok Dallas

Upon first hearing possibility, of Saint MIKE...I was excited, about CANONIZING 
process,
but when I offered to light Fuse, everyone laughed G Damn they don't use Gun 
Powder!.
(I know, this was where CKING normally puts a Tag Line, but I really wanted to 
post mine)



(OK, I know...CKING normally puts his TAG line here, but I just couldn't 
pass-up, posting)      


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Tony Moody]

Hi Dok,

I'm with you on a lot of your post. Yes, Marshal is admirable in the science 
dept. and ability to
to discuss it.

The mm uses lm317 or derivatives usually , can't remember him using op amps, 
but he adds
a lot of compenstion circuits around for voltage and temp variation. Expensive 
egotistic
overkill for our needs, my opinion. Have to admire what he knows tho. But that 
kind of circuit
is a real pain (if not impossible) to get reliable low current.

It is full moon and there is a lot of barking.

bg is also a good guy but I left there when i couldn't get through to him about 
burns.

Thanks for the headsup. Its very quiet on Becknstuff .You want to stir a bit 
there, will be
good. Not that I understand a lot of what you say; I'm not american and don't 
watch much TV.
:-)

Thats enough damage from me for one day.

OK,
Tony


On 5 May 2012 at 6:22, Dok Dallas wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 Hi Tony,

 We sure were lucky this time, with having our (Sky) Marshall nearby, even
 if Sleeping?g Yes, one sniff and Marshall made quick draw, on verbose
 shopping list, of Mike's rambling! I'm glad to see, HIJACK incident went
 without serious insult to SilverList members, except I heard later, some
 were complaining of MIkeGRAINE Headaches and smelling...old Mold?

 Looks like Mike D. is going to have to really get that damn [UNSUBSCRIBE]
 button fixed, or next time it might be a (full-blown) Zombie
 Attack...including return of the Bad-Histava? Before we blame technology,
 maybe Mike Lied (again) and never left List, like if Paranoid.

 I'm retired Engineer, not-real Doctor, but @^@ 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalomania and if that don't help
 understanding personality problems, we can still call for a Krampus? Over
 50 years in Military  Aerospace Engineering... have run into many a
 Delusional EE. From years of managing EE's, Mike's disruptive nature
 around others, is never...workable!  

 With EE background, I already challenged Saint Michael last Fall, for
 missing Information on how he was deriving measurements, etc. and I
 offered assistance.  I was then blocked from any further postings in 'HIS'
 Y-GrOpE and he sent me 3~4 emails which I  ignored ;~) For months, simply
 sat back patiently waiting, watching and laughing at Mike screwing-up.

 He did not know answer to Electro-Chemistry question I asked: name for
 Res. (I) regulator ckt. he used to control brew Cell current..?  Try~
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanostat Yes, Galvanostat/(Amprostat) are
 exactly the techniques Bob Beck used in his BE design and also not
 recognized/understood by Russ at SOTA, or the Lizard Guy in 6V
 Germ-killer. BTW, Saint Mike is now Persona-non-Grata in Lizard
 GrOpE...after posting on Chromium?

 Godzilla always was/is Dangerous to user with Iontophoresis pumping
 potentially Toxic Ion and while DC Zilla gets Germ Killer results, it
 pumps Bad (long term) Neuro Toxic, Cu Ions. Of all the so called Zapper
 technologies over years ( s ago, Doctors safely used almost exactly same
 DC currents, to then Treat rather than BURN patients...where now 150 years
 later Ignorant ZILLA users get 3rd-degree BURNS...which bG dismisses, as
 being only minor skin rash, that will eventually, go away?

 Saint Michael most likely has never read up on how Doctors safely used
 Medical currents, but give me until Sunday afternoon and I will post lost
 secrets URL, after Mike is sleeping?     I'll offer you a BIG clue... when
 pumping (Metallic) Cations, negative trod is always HUGE, Doctors fully
 understanding (+)  (-) trodes are not swappable, ZILLA users kept in
 DARK!

 Now in May 2012, Silver Cell is a (childish) JOKE, of plastic-board, hot
 glue, stolen straws, yet still we cannot Pin-Down source(s) of
 Contaminationnot seen, IN other...generators? Last I heard...thought
 it was Sulfur, escaping from Gel-Cell batteries in emergency lighting, but
 with years of fighting Mold Infestations and Herpes from girl friends Kid,
 WHO knows..?      In (real world) design Engineering, Mike would never
 have survived past 90-Daze Probation! 

 Not only did Saint Mike Hijack original Question, but he never even
 answered it, before he proceeded to run on and on, with his own error
 ridden agenda(s), posting his GrOpE Links. Tony, beware (as you are
 moderator) in [Beck-n-Stuff] Y-Group...I predict a Saint Mike, will likely
 try to start preaching about Deadly (chromium) IONS, if using Stainless
 Steel trode? Just remember, Robert Beck's Dr.Sci degrees are in
 Physics/(MSEE) and he understood, all ramifications...of using type 316-SS
 Electrodes with a (4-HZ) Biphasic ION Pump/Trap! If he dares to show up in
 any BECK groups...I will be glad to lecture...4-HZ/BiPhasic Trap.      

 As we all grow older, hopefully we won't end...like Saint Mike? 
 www.theDASHmovie.com

 Please Note: I started reply ten hours ago (at Truck Stop) actual Send
 Time got delayed, so now that I am back, live on-Internet...I see

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

  Tony Moody a...@new.co.za wrote:

   But that kind of circuit is a real pain (if not impossible) to get
   reliable low current.

  OK,
  Tony

  Tony,

  The LM317 has a minimum load current of 3.5mA. This is far  too high
  for a  typical  cs  generator. It is  also  limited  to input/output
  voltage differential  of  40V  max.  This is  too  low  for  some cs
  generators and the LM317 will saturate at the start of the  brew. It
  will mess up the Faraday calculations.

  However,itis   trivial   to   getastable,  precision
  temperature-compensated constant   current   source   at microampere
  current levels.  All it takes is two resistors, a TL431, and  a high
  voltage npn transistor such as a 2N5550. The 2N5550 will take  up to
  160V, which is far more than most cs generators will need.

  I use  it  with excellent results. It  is  perfectly  stable without
  bypass capacitors and needs no compensation. The TL431  has internal
  compensation that  determines   the   open   loop   gain  margin and
  stability. The  load  is isolated from the loop since it  is  in the
  collector of the 2N5550, and anything you tack on the  output cannot
  affect the loop gain.

  The circuit  is  shown  in  Figure  29,  Precision Constant-Current
  Sink, on page 18 of

  http://www.tkhifi.com/datablade/tl431.pdf

  The equation is

  Rs = 2.5 / Ic

  where

  Ic = desired cell current
  Rs = current setting resistor

  Note, the  current  source shown as  Figure  28,  Precision Current
  Limiter, on page 17, won't work as a current source.

  The parts only cost a few pennies.

  Octopart will help you find vendors. Here is the 2N5550:

  http://octopart.com/parts/search?q=2n5550

  Here is the TL431:

  http://octopart.com/parts/search?q=tl431

  Thanks,

  Mike


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

Dok Dallas dokdal...@yahoo.com wrote:

[... snip crud]

Dok,

There are two major Beck groups in Yahoo. Both seem to  have drifted
away from discussions on Zappers.

The Beck-n-stuff  group  with Tony Moody as moderator  hasn't  had a
post regarding  Zappers for quite some time. This group  has drifted
off into EMF shielding against smart meters and tDCS. Both  are very
unstable ground.  So  far the discussion on  tDCS  doesn't  seems to
realize that electrons cannot flow in an electrolyte.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Beck-n-stuff/messages

The Beck-blood-electrification group with BG as the  moderator seems
to have  abandoned  Beck altogether and is now  into  cs,  H2O2, and
ozone. These are famous traps for the unwary.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Beck-blood-electrification/messages;

There was  one very interesting  post  in Beck-blood-electrification
that no  one seems to have followed up on. I will copy  it  here for
reference:


Shingles
Message #14394 of 14451

I'm new to electro medicine but I had 2 cases so far where  the pain
was greatly  mitigated  by  the  PEMF. One  woman,  80+  yo,  in the
hospital. We  got the unit into her room and she finally  got relief
from the pain and was able (and wanted) to leave. Another  woman who
had the  shingles  pain for 10 years came and did a  20  minute PEMF
treatment and  the  pain  greatly   subsided  for  4  days  and then
gradually started  to  return. She returned  for  another  20 minute
session.

Interesting.

Pat

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Beck-blood-electrification/message/14394?l=1;


I have  had shingles twice. This post is very  interesting  and well
worth investigating further. But nobody seems to have noticed it.

As far  as  your  participation   in  these  groups,  your  posts in
Beck-blood-electrification were  similar to your post here  and drew
many complaints. This may have resulted in your being  expelled from
the group, since your last post was message 12291 on Sep 21, 2010:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Beck-blood-electrification/message/12291;

Your last  post in the Beck-n-stuff group was message  43748  on Jul
29, 2011, titled Making CS with a Silver Puppy Question

In this  post   you   offered   to   divulge  secret  information on
EIS/CSilver hide-outs. I think this is generally against  the open
discussion beliefs that most people practise in these forums.

You claim  to be a retired design engineer and claim  that  top LVDC
EIS generator  designers tend to guard their EOC circuits.  Then you
make the amazing statemt that

EOC/(End-of-Cycle) circuits  using  constant-current,  measure Cell
Impedance/(value)  between   (2)   active   Silver electrodes...then
compare to  known set-point to get EOC~ For a  given (submerged/wet)
electrode surface-area and spacing, at a known-current there will be
a (specific)  measurable voltage-drop given across Cell  to estimate
PPM!

I believe  you are just like most people who are  trying  to impress
others with meaningless babble. You are simply describing Ohm's Law.

The equation is

V = I * R

You will end up with a circuit that is very much like this:

http://silvercentral.org/systems/csoff.htm

However, this approach has serious limits. As I state at the end:


The circuit would function as designed, but the basic concept has a
major flaw. Since the curve of cell voltage vs brew time flattens to
a plateau  near  the  end of the brew,  the  cutoff  threshold would
become critical. Small variations in the purity of  distilled water,
ambient temperature,  or  even vibrations  from  walking  across the
floor could  trigger the cutoff and terminate the  brew.  This could
cause significant  variations  in  ionic  strength,  or  perhaps the
threshold might  not  be reached and the  circuit  would  never shut
off.

This means  the threshold would have to be set  considerably higher
than the  plateau  voltage, which means  the  concentration  of ions
would be less than the maximum obtainable from the cs generator.


However, there is a far better way to do the job. Simply  invert the
equation and plot the conductance curve instead. Here is an example:

http://silvercentral.org/zimag/conduct.gif

The significance  of this curve is it tells you  everything  that is
happening in the electrolysis process. You can detect contamination,
such as  silver  sulfide,  and the point  at  which  the conductance
plateaus and you need to terminate the brew.

However, this  will  require   a   small  microprocessor  to  do the
calculation and  curve fitting, and it can offer much  more detailed
information on the health of the cs generator and quality of  the cs
than was possible before.

I hope  to bring this 

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Tony Moody]

On 3 May 2012 at 17:23, Mike Monett wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Mike, 

They taste different. How do you explain that??

OK,
Tony


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

Tony Moody a...@new.co.za wrote:

On 3 May 2012 at 17:23, Mike Monett wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Mike, 

They taste different. How do you explain that??

OK,
Tony

Tony,

What tastes different?

Mike Monett


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

  Mike Monett mrmon...@pstca.com wrote:

   At this  point,  the  particles are far too small  to  show  up as
   Tyndall, and cannot be seen with the naked eye. However, they will
   eventually combine  due  to van Der Walls forces  and  form larger
   particles.

  Oops, I  spelled  van  der   Waals  incorrectly  and  had  the wrong
  capitalization.

  Here is  the  correct version. Van is capitalized if  it  is  at the
  beginning of a sentence.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force

  Thanks,

  Mike Monett


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall]

For some reason I did not get the email this is in response to.  What 
tastes different?


Marshall

On 5/4/2012 2:23 AM, Tony Moody wrote:

On 3 May 2012 at 17:23, Mike Monett wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Mike,

They taste different. How do you explain that??

OK,
Tony


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Tony Moody]

Umm Mike M hijacked a post by Jim Holmes and went on about ionic and 
particulate CS is 
the same. But practically there is a taste and a visual difference. Yes? So , 
Although I'm not a 
chemist or physicist I say there is definitely a difference.

Looks like it may be message X-Mailing-List: silver-list@eskimo.com 
archive/latest/144164

and it starts like this:
Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

  Jim Holmes
  Thu, 03 May 2012 11:35:50 -0700

   Has anyone  calculated  the optimal weight/volume  of  C  per
  unit  volume of aprox 10 ppm total mixed particulate and
  ionic?

  Please let me put this to bed.

  If you are ingesting cs, it makes no difference.

  To review,  the equation of the silver electrolysis reaction 
  at the cathode is

  H2O + e- -- H + OH-

etc
---

Sorry got to get on with own stuff.

OK,
Tony


On 4 May 2012 at 11:19, Marshall wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 For some reason I did not get the email this is in response to.  What
 tastes different?
 
 Marshall
 
 On 5/4/2012 2:23 AM, Tony Moody wrote:
  On 3 May 2012 at 17:23, Mike Monett wrote about :
  Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  Mike,
 
  They taste different. How do you explain that??
 
  OK,
  Tony
 
 
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  Off-Topic discussions:mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
  List Owner: Mike Devourmailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall]

Yes, there is a difference.  Ionic conducts electricity, particulate 
does not, ionic reacts with lots of things like salt, particulate does 
not, ionic taste different then the particulate, ionic has no tyndall 
particulate does, ionic cannot be centrifuged out particulate can, ionic 
absorbs color in the uv spectrum and particulate can absorb virtually 
any color depending on the size, ionic causes injured cells to convert 
to stem cells and particulate does not, adjusting pH away from 7 does 
not affect ionic but will cause particulate to precipitate out.


Marshall

On 5/4/2012 2:01 PM, Tony Moody wrote:

Umm Mike M hijacked a post by Jim Holmes and went on about ionic and
  particulate CS is
the same. But practically there is a taste and a visual difference. Yes? So
  , Although I'm not a
chemist or physicist I say there is definitely a difference.

Looks like it may be message X-Mailing-List:silver-list@eskimo.com
  archive/latest/144164

and it starts like this:
Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

   Jim Holmes
   Thu, 03 May 2012 11:35:50 -0700

 Has anyone  calculated  the optimal weight/volume  of  C  per
   unit  volume of aprox 10 ppm total mixed particulate and
   ionic?

   Please let me put this to bed.

   If you are ingesting cs, it makes no difference.

   To review,  the equation of the silver electrolysis reaction
   at the cathode is

   H2O + e- --  H + OH-

 etc
---

Sorry got to get on with own stuff.

OK,
Tony


On 4 May 2012 at 11:19, Marshall wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


For some reason I did not get the email this is in response to.  What
tastes different?

Marshall

On 5/4/2012 2:23 AM, Tony Moody wrote:

On 3 May 2012 at 17:23, Mike Monett wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Mike,

They taste different. How do you explain that??

OK,
Tony


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Tony Moody]

Gee, Marshal,

You know all that by tasting? Wow!  ;-)  Thanks, that is great to have it all 
in one place. 

Another one is that ionic seems to be 'everlasting' in light, sunlight; but 
particulate changes in 
several ways fairly quickly, within minutes to hours depending on light 
intensity: changes 
colour, becomes darker then as it precipitates out the liquid becomes clearer. 
Changes taste 
too, less'sandy' but also bitterness and metallic taste change; can't remember 
which way they 
go.
 
OK,
Tony

On 4 May 2012 at 14:18, Marshall wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 Yes, there is a difference.  Ionic conducts electricity, particulate does
 not, ionic reacts with lots of things like salt, particulate does not,
 ionic taste different then the particulate, ionic has no tyndall
 particulate does, ionic cannot be centrifuged out particulate can, ionic
 absorbs color in the uv spectrum and particulate can absorb virtually any
 color depending on the size, ionic causes injured cells to convert to stem
 cells and particulate does not, adjusting pH away from 7 does not affect
 ionic but will cause particulate to precipitate out.
 
 Marshall
 
 On 5/4/2012 2:01 PM, Tony Moody wrote:
  Umm Mike M hijacked a post by Jim Holmes and went on about ionic and
particulate CS is
  the same. But practically there is a taste and a visual difference. Yes?
  So
, Although I'm not a
  chemist or physicist I say there is definitely a difference.
 
  Looks like it may be message X-Mailing-List:silver-list@eskimo.com
archive/latest/144164
 
  and it starts like this:
  Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
 Jim Holmes
 Thu, 03 May 2012 11:35:50 -0700
 
   Has anyone  calculated  the optimal weight/volume  of  C  per
 unit  volume of aprox 10 ppm total mixed particulate and
 ionic?
 
 Please let me put this to bed.
 
 If you are ingesting cs, it makes no difference.
 
 To review,  the equation of the silver electrolysis reaction
 at the cathode is
 
 H2O + e- --  H + OH-
 
   etc
  ---
 
  Sorry got to get on with own stuff.
 
  OK,
  Tony
 
 
  On 4 May 2012 at 11:19, Marshall wrote about :
  Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  For some reason I did not get the email this is in response to.  What
  tastes different?
 
  Marshall
 
  On 5/4/2012 2:23 AM, Tony Moody wrote:
  On 3 May 2012 at 17:23, Mike Monett wrote about :
  Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  Mike,
 
  They taste different. How do you explain that??
 
  OK,
  Tony
 
 
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  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org
 
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RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Neville Munn]

Has anyone done any pH testing of solutions?
I had two samples tested some time ago, one 24 hours old and one a couple of 
weeks old and the fresh one blew the pH reading practically off the meter on 
the alkaline side, the older solution read about 7 to 7.2 I think from memory 
{and no settlement or anything}.  This suggests to me that pH stabilises closer 
to base 7 over suitable time frame, and why it could be there is differing 
effectiveness of EIS for differing issues.  It also suggests to me this is why 
Dr Robert O Becker had such success with dedifferentiation of cells at the 
wound site, he had silver in direct contact with the wound which theoretically 
would produce high alkaline pH under electrolysis, if it works in a similar 
fashion as production in a glass jar?
Of course I have no way of knowing, but fresh over old solutions may each come 
with their own rewards perhaps?  That's been my hypothesis anyway.
Thanks for this Marshall, now I understand a little better about ionic and 
particulate with regards to taste.
N.

 Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 14:18:09 -0400
 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
 Yes, there is a difference.  Ionic conducts electricity, particulate 
 does not, ionic reacts with lots of things like salt, particulate does 
 not, ionic taste different then the particulate, ionic has no tyndall 
 particulate does, ionic cannot be centrifuged out particulate can, ionic 
 absorbs color in the uv spectrum and particulate can absorb virtually 
 any color depending on the size, ionic causes injured cells to convert 
 to stem cells and particulate does not, adjusting pH away from 7 does 
 not affect ionic but will cause particulate to precipitate out.
 
 Marshall
 
 On 5/4/2012 2:01 PM, Tony Moody wrote:
  Umm Mike M hijacked a post by Jim Holmes and went on about ionic and
particulate CS is
  the same. But practically there is a taste and a visual difference. Yes? So
, Although I'm not a
  chemist or physicist I say there is definitely a difference.
 
  Looks like it may be message X-Mailing-List:silver-list@eskimo.com
archive/latest/144164
 
  and it starts like this:
  Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 

  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

   Hi Mike, Regarding Zappers, it sounds like you are talking about
   the devices that Hulda Clark popularized over the past 20 years or
   so (I first read her books in 1994 or so). Is that the case? I use
   a zapper  occasionally  if I get a bad cold  or  upper respiratory
   infection. But I have never heard of what you mentioned  about the
   copper hand holds depositing copper ions into the skin  (I covered
   them with 2 layers of paper towel), or other materials, depositing
   who knows  what into the skin. Do you have a  recommendation  on a
   material that  is  safe  to use with a Zapper?  I  have  found the
   zapper to  be  extremely  useful at times  of  viral  or bacterial
   infection -  it doesn't seem to cure the problem outright,  but it
   definitely seems  to have a positive effect (in my  case,  pain or
   congestion in  the sinuses or throat is usually  alleviated  for a
   few hours after a zapping session). -Ken

  Ken,

  Zappers were  proposed by Bob Beck and Hulda Clark. Beck  claimed to
  be a  physicist, and would have known that electrons cannot  flow in
  an electrolyte.  However, he claimed his Zapper could  do  just that
  and that it would cure all diseases.

  Here is  a  1998  talk where Beck claims his  Zapper  will  kill ALL
  pathogens and  parasites,   including   HIV.   He  claims  the blood
  circulates in the body in 9 or 10 seconds (5:00). This is  false. It
  takes a minute or so.

  Note also that he uses stainless steel electrodes. Please  see below
  for more information.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC7M_rhg2yU

  Clearly the device does not do what he claims. If it did,  HIV would
  not exist,  and  we would not need antibiotics.  Every  hospital and
  clinic would be using them instead. That is obviously not true.

  Hulda Clark has a slightly different version and made much  the same
  claims. However,  she  also  claimed to  have  the  ability  to cure
  cancer. However, Hulda Clark died of cancer in 2009.

  From Wikipedia:

  Clark's claims  and  devices   have  been  dismissed  by authorities
  ranging from  the  US  Federal Trade Commission  and  Food  and Drug
  Administration to  alternative medicine figures such as  Andrew Weil
  asscientifically   unfounded,   bizarre,[3]   and  potentially
  fraudulent.[2] Clark  died 3 September 2009 of  multiple  myeloma (a
  blood and bone cancer).[4][5][6]

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulda_Regehr_Clark

  Hulda's Zapper  supposedly  worked by shaking  or  vibrating  a germ
  until it  falls  apart,  like  the  famous  Memorex  commercial that
  shatters a wine glass.

  However, bacteria are not brittle like crystal, and there is  no way
  any energy from a Zapper could reach them. The first problem is skin
  effect that  causes high frequencies to travel on the  outside  of a
  body and not penetrate very deeply. The second problem is the energy
  in the  harmonics  falls   off   extremely   rapidly,  and  there is
  negligible energy  at  the frequencies that  might  resonate  with a
  bacterial cell.

  Again, if  her device worked as she claims, we would no  longer have
  any illness,  and all the pharmaceutical companies  would  have gone
  out of business long ago. These devices would be used in  every home
  and clinic, and about the only thing we would need doctors for would
  be the occasional broken bone.

  None of this has happened.

  Your sinus  irritation might be caused by low  humidity  which dries
  the sinuses.  It could also be caused by irritation from  the toxins
  in mold  spores,  possibly from your pillow. It could  be  caused by
  mold spores coming from padded furniture or an infestation buried in
  walls or some hidden place in the basement.

  In these cases, the Zapper has no effect and the soreness  is simply
  going away  by  itself  as you move about or  open  the  windows for
  ventilation.

  The copper  ions released by the iontophoreses  travel  very slowly,
  especially with the low voltage present.

  It is  very  unlikely that a Zapper is able to do  anything  to help
  bacterial infections  that are located more than  a  few centimeters
  beneath the surface. It is extremely unlikely that Zapping will have
  any effect on viral infections.

  However, copper is easily corroded and it is very difficult  to find
  pure copper  that  has not been contaminated by  oxidation  or other
  sources. The  copper  in  wire  is  very  pure,  but  the insulation
  material releases  contamination   that   quickly   embeds  into the
  surface. Also, the manufacturing process does nothing to  remove the
  lubrication needed to draw the wire through the dies, so they remain
  on the  surface  where they will migrate inwards  over  a  period of
  time.

  I just went through a lengthy exercise to try to scrap and  sand the
  contamination from  the surface of 12 ga copper wire. Even  though I
  removed a  substantial  amount  of material  from  the  surface, the
  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Jason R Eaton]

Hi Ken:

Beware of individuals claiming false expertise.

First off, zappers were firsted tested by individuals such as Royal Rife 
and Nikola Tesla.  These ideas were then eventually borrowed, with an 
attempt at a refinement, by individuals such as Bob Beck and Hulda Clark.


Second, my experience is that the hulda clark type zapper is only marginally 
effective.  However, for many individuals, marginally is enough to give 
the immune system enough support to recover.


One of the problems with Hulda Clark type zappers is the actual waveform. 
Just like Royal Rife was working with very ineffective technology, most of 
the Hulda Clark zappers don't produce a true square wave form, which 
inhibits any potential effectiveness.  A device such as the Godzilla is 
far more effective to treat localized conditions.


When using one of the more technically correct and properly engineered 
zappers, the effectiveness is increased.  However, as the saying goes, the 
pathogen is nothing and the bioterrain is everything.  For severe chronic 
systemic infections, the best one can hope for using anti-pathogenic devices 
and substances is to help keep the bloodstream clean and support the immune 
system, and thus improve the body's own ability to address infections.


As far as electrodes, use an extremely clean cloth moistened with a high 
grade sea salt solution.  Being concerned about the adsorption of metals 
through such a cloth into the body is like worrying about a neighbor's 
candle when your house is burning down.  I would be far more concerned about 
toxicity from the average air sample in metropolitan areas.


BTW:  One of the simpler ways to test the effectiveness of zappers is by 
contrasting before and after live blood analysis studies.


Kind Regards,

Jason


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Monett mrmon...@pstca.com

To: SilverList silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 19:05
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS




  Hi Mike, Regarding Zappers, it sounds like you are talking about
  the devices that Hulda Clark popularized over the past 20 years or
  so (I first read her books in 1994 or so). Is that the case? I use
  a zapper  occasionally  if I get a bad cold  or  upper respiratory
  infection. But I have never heard of what you mentioned  about the
  copper hand holds depositing copper ions into the skin  (I covered
  them with 2 layers of paper towel), or other materials, depositing
  who knows  what into the skin. Do you have a  recommendation  on a
  material that  is  safe  to use with a Zapper?  I  have  found the
  zapper to  be  extremely  useful at times  of  viral  or bacterial
  infection -  it doesn't seem to cure the problem outright,  but it
  definitely seems  to have a positive effect (in my  case,  pain or
  congestion in  the sinuses or throat is usually  alleviated  for a
  few hours after a zapping session). -Ken

 Ken,

 Zappers were  proposed by Bob Beck and Hulda Clark. Beck  claimed to
 be a  physicist, and would have known that electrons cannot  flow in
 an electrolyte.  However, he claimed his Zapper could  do  just that
 and that it would cure all diseases.

 Here is  a  1998  talk where Beck claims his  Zapper  will  kill ALL
 pathogens and  parasites,   including   HIV.   He  claims  the blood
 circulates in the body in 9 or 10 seconds (5:00). This is  false. It
 takes a minute or so.

 Note also that he uses stainless steel electrodes. Please  see below
 for more information.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC7M_rhg2yU

 Clearly the device does not do what he claims. If it did,  HIV would
 not exist,  and  we would not need antibiotics.  Every  hospital and
 clinic would be using them instead. That is obviously not true.

 Hulda Clark has a slightly different version and made much  the same
 claims. However,  she  also  claimed to  have  the  ability  to cure
 cancer. However, Hulda Clark died of cancer in 2009.

 From Wikipedia:

 Clark's claims  and  devices   have  been  dismissed  by authorities
 ranging from  the  US  Federal Trade Commission  and  Food  and Drug
 Administration to  alternative medicine figures such as  Andrew Weil
 asscientifically   unfounded,   bizarre,[3]   and  potentially
 fraudulent.[2] Clark  died 3 September 2009 of  multiple  myeloma (a
 blood and bone cancer).[4][5][6]

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulda_Regehr_Clark

 Hulda's Zapper  supposedly  worked by shaking  or  vibrating  a germ
 until it  falls  apart,  like  the  famous  Memorex  commercial that
 shatters a wine glass.

 However, bacteria are not brittle like crystal, and there is  no way
 any energy from a Zapper could reach them. The first problem is skin
 effect that  causes high frequencies to travel on the  outside  of a
 body and not penetrate very deeply. The second problem is the energy
 in the  harmonics  falls   off   extremely   rapidly,  and  there is
 negligible energy  at  the frequencies that  might  resonate  with a
 bacterial cell

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

Hi Jason,

No reputable researcher has been able to duplicate Royal Rife's results.
From Wikipedia:

Rife's claims could not be independently replicated, [5] and were
ultimately discredited by the medical profession in the 1950s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife

Many of the claims attributed to Tesla never happened.

None of Beck's claims that he made in the YouTube video have materialized.

There is nothing you can do to change the fact electrons cannot flow in an
electrolyte.

A blood analysis doesn't mean much. It is a complex procedure that is
easily derailed by poor technique or measurements.

The fundamental proof is does it work? The answer is no. Most of the
effects attributed to zappers can easily be explained by other factors.

I am an expert in instrumentation design and analysis. My credentials are
as follows:

1. I am a retired electronics engineer with over 50 years of experience in
instrumentation and control systems. These are among the most difficult
fields in electronics.

2. I had my own company from 1976 until I retired recently.

3. I have been awarded 6 US patents involving hard disk drives. My patent
list is here:

http://pstca.com/patents.htm

The statements I made are obviously true and can be observed by anyone.
These devices are not used in clinics or any place where their performance
can be monitored and verified.

There is no need to belittle contamination on the electrodes. It is a very
real and significant problem. Ignoring it could cause you serious harm. I
once got some kind of contamination on my silver electrodes when I laid
them on my workbench and they must have touched a spot of oil or grease. I
was so sick after taking cs made with these electrodes that it took three
days in bed to recover. I now keep a second glass to hold the assembly
while I am filling the cs generator with dw or emptying the cs, and I do
not allow the electrodes to touch anything. Do not underestimate the danger
of contamination. It can really harm you.

There is no need to resort to dubious and overhyped gadgets when they have
no effect on the most basic pathogen, viruses.

There is no need to mess with a non-functional technology when a high
quality ionic cs will vastly outperform any of the claims made by biased
and undereducated individuals.

Thanks,

Mike Monett

Jason R Eaton ja...@eytonsearth.org wrote:

Hi Ken:

Beware of individuals claiming false expertise.

First off, zappers were firsted tested by individuals such as Royal Rife 
and Nikola Tesla.  These ideas were then eventually borrowed, with an 
attempt at a refinement, by individuals such as Bob Beck and Hulda Clark.

Second, my experience is that the hulda clark type zapper is only marginally 
effective.  However, for many individuals, marginally is enough to give 
the immune system enough support to recover.

One of the problems with Hulda Clark type zappers is the actual waveform. 
Just like Royal Rife was working with very ineffective technology, most of 
the Hulda Clark zappers don't produce a true square wave form, which 
inhibits any potential effectiveness.  A device such as the Godzilla is 
far more effective to treat localized conditions.

When using one of the more technically correct and properly engineered 
zappers, the effectiveness is increased.  However, as the saying goes, the 
pathogen is nothing and the bioterrain is everything.  For severe chronic 
systemic infections, the best one can hope for using anti-pathogenic devices 
and substances is to help keep the bloodstream clean and support the immune 
system, and thus improve the body's own ability to address infections.

As far as electrodes, use an extremely clean cloth moistened with a high 
grade sea salt solution.  Being concerned about the adsorption of metals 
through such a cloth into the body is like worrying about a neighbor's 
candle when your house is burning down.  I would be far more concerned about 
toxicity from the average air sample in metropolitan areas.

BTW:  One of the simpler ways to test the effectiveness of zappers is by 
contrasting before and after live blood analysis studies.

Kind Regards,

Jason


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org

Unsubscribe:
  mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe
Archives: 
  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html

Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com
List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com

RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Neville Munn]

Many seem to quote wikipedia, I doubt this source is all that reliable.  I 
certainly wouldn't quote from it as any form of authority on subject matters 
such as these anyway, and I'm only a mug punter.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from all my readings about Rife his *personal* 
researched material was destroyed, and his sidekicks attempted to duplicate 
from memory did they not?  And I'm not exactly sure if *everything* he did was 
documented?  Again from my readings, he failed to repeat his purported 
successes after the ruination of him and the destruction of his material.
N.

 From: mrmon...@pstca.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 22:59:46 -0400
 
 Hi Jason,
 
 No reputable researcher has been able to duplicate Royal Rife's results.
 From Wikipedia:
 
 Rife's claims could not be independently replicated, [5] and were
 ultimately discredited by the medical profession in the 1950s.
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife
 
 Many of the claims attributed to Tesla never happened.
 
 None of Beck's claims that he made in the YouTube video have materialized.
 
 There is nothing you can do to change the fact electrons cannot flow in an
 electrolyte.
 
 A blood analysis doesn't mean much. It is a complex procedure that is
 easily derailed by poor technique or measurements.
 
 The fundamental proof is does it work? The answer is no. Most of the
 effects attributed to zappers can easily be explained by other factors.
 
 I am an expert in instrumentation design and analysis. My credentials are
 as follows:
 
 1. I am a retired electronics engineer with over 50 years of experience in
 instrumentation and control systems. These are among the most difficult
 fields in electronics.
 
 2. I had my own company from 1976 until I retired recently.
 
 3. I have been awarded 6 US patents involving hard disk drives. My patent
 list is here:
 
 http://pstca.com/patents.htm
 
 The statements I made are obviously true and can be observed by anyone.
 These devices are not used in clinics or any place where their performance
 can be monitored and verified.
 
 There is no need to belittle contamination on the electrodes. It is a very
 real and significant problem. Ignoring it could cause you serious harm. I
 once got some kind of contamination on my silver electrodes when I laid
 them on my workbench and they must have touched a spot of oil or grease. I
 was so sick after taking cs made with these electrodes that it took three
 days in bed to recover. I now keep a second glass to hold the assembly
 while I am filling the cs generator with dw or emptying the cs, and I do
 not allow the electrodes to touch anything. Do not underestimate the danger
 of contamination. It can really harm you.
 
 There is no need to resort to dubious and overhyped gadgets when they have
 no effect on the most basic pathogen, viruses.
 
 There is no need to mess with a non-functional technology when a high
 quality ionic cs will vastly outperform any of the claims made by biased
 and undereducated individuals.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Mike Monett
 
 Jason R Eaton ja...@eytonsearth.org wrote:
 
 Hi Ken:
 
 Beware of individuals claiming false expertise.
 
 First off, zappers were firsted tested by individuals such as Royal Rife 
 and Nikola Tesla.  These ideas were then eventually borrowed, with an 
 attempt at a refinement, by individuals such as Bob Beck and Hulda Clark.
 
 Second, my experience is that the hulda clark type zapper is only marginally 
 effective.  However, for many individuals, marginally is enough to give 
 the immune system enough support to recover.
 
 One of the problems with Hulda Clark type zappers is the actual waveform. 
 Just like Royal Rife was working with very ineffective technology, most of 
 the Hulda Clark zappers don't produce a true square wave form, which 
 inhibits any potential effectiveness.  A device such as the Godzilla is 
 far more effective to treat localized conditions.
 
 When using one of the more technically correct and properly engineered 
 zappers, the effectiveness is increased.  However, as the saying goes, the 
 pathogen is nothing and the bioterrain is everything.  For severe chronic 
 systemic infections, the best one can hope for using anti-pathogenic devices 
 and substances is to help keep the bloodstream clean and support the immune 
 system, and thus improve the body's own ability to address infections.
 
 As far as electrodes, use an extremely clean cloth moistened with a high 
 grade sea salt solution.  Being concerned about the adsorption of metals 
 through such a cloth into the body is like worrying about a neighbor's 
 candle when your house is burning down.  I would be far more concerned about 
 toxicity from the average air sample in metropolitan areas.
 
 BTW:  One of the simpler ways to test the effectiveness of zappers is by 
 contrasting before and after live blood analysis studies.
 
 Kind Regards,
 
 Jason
 
 
 --
 The Silver

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[David AuBuchon]

By the same arguments, one could ask where are all the studies on colloidal
silver done by credible researchers?  Oops.

The funny thing about what constitutes objective proof, is that it is a
subjective decision.

David

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.comwrote:

  Many seem to quote wikipedia, I doubt this source is all that reliable.
  I certainly wouldn't quote from it as any form of authority on subject
 matters such as these anyway, and I'm only a mug punter.

 Correct me if I'm wrong, but from all my readings about Rife his
 *personal* researched material was destroyed, and his sidekicks attempted
 to duplicate from memory did they not?  And I'm not exactly sure if
 *everything* he did was documented?  Again from my readings, he failed to
 repeat his purported successes after the ruination of him and the
 destruction of his material.

 N.

  From: mrmon...@pstca.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com

  Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
  Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 22:59:46 -0400

 
  Hi Jason,
 
  No reputable researcher has been able to duplicate Royal Rife's results.
  From Wikipedia:
 
  Rife's claims could not be independently replicated, [5] and were
  ultimately discredited by the medical profession in the 1950s.
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife
 
  Many of the claims attributed to Tesla never happened.
 
  None of Beck's claims that he made in the YouTube video have
 materialized.
 
  There is nothing you can do to change the fact electrons cannot flow in
 an
  electrolyte.
 
  A blood analysis doesn't mean much. It is a complex procedure that is
  easily derailed by poor technique or measurements.
 
  The fundamental proof is does it work? The answer is no. Most of the
  effects attributed to zappers can easily be explained by other factors.
 
  I am an expert in instrumentation design and analysis. My credentials are
  as follows:
 
  1. I am a retired electronics engineer with over 50 years of experience
 in
  instrumentation and control systems. These are among the most difficult
  fields in electronics.
 
  2. I had my own company from 1976 until I retired recently.
 
  3. I have been awarded 6 US patents involving hard disk drives. My patent
  list is here:
 
  http://pstca.com/patents.htm
 
  The statements I made are obviously true and can be observed by anyone.
  These devices are not used in clinics or any place where their
 performance
  can be monitored and verified.
 
  There is no need to belittle contamination on the electrodes. It is a
 very
  real and significant problem. Ignoring it could cause you serious harm. I
  once got some kind of contamination on my silver electrodes when I laid
  them on my workbench and they must have touched a spot of oil or grease.
 I
  was so sick after taking cs made with these electrodes that it took three
  days in bed to recover. I now keep a second glass to hold the assembly
  while I am filling the cs generator with dw or emptying the cs, and I do
  not allow the electrodes to touch anything. Do not underestimate the
 danger
  of contamination. It can really harm you.
 
  There is no need to resort to dubious and overhyped gadgets when they
 have
  no effect on the most basic pathogen, viruses.
 
  There is no need to mess with a non-functional technology when a high
  quality ionic cs will vastly outperform any of the claims made by biased
  and undereducated individuals.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Mike Monett
 
  Jason R Eaton ja...@eytonsearth.org wrote:
  
  Hi Ken:
  
  Beware of individuals claiming false expertise.
  
  First off, zappers were firsted tested by individuals such as Royal
 Rife
  and Nikola Tesla. These ideas were then eventually borrowed, with an
  attempt at a refinement, by individuals such as Bob Beck and Hulda
 Clark.
  
  Second, my experience is that the hulda clark type zapper is only
 marginally
  effective. However, for many individuals, marginally is enough to
 give
  the immune system enough support to recover.
  
  One of the problems with Hulda Clark type zappers is the actual
 waveform.
  Just like Royal Rife was working with very ineffective technology, most
 of
  the Hulda Clark zappers don't produce a true square wave form, which
  inhibits any potential effectiveness. A device such as the Godzilla
 is
  far more effective to treat localized conditions.
  
  When using one of the more technically correct and properly engineered
  zappers, the effectiveness is increased. However, as the saying goes,
 the
  pathogen is nothing and the bioterrain is everything. For severe
 chronic
  systemic infections, the best one can hope for using anti-pathogenic
 devices
  and substances is to help keep the bloodstream clean and support the
 immune
  system, and thus improve the body's own ability to address infections.
  
  As far as electrodes, use an extremely clean cloth moistened with a
 high
  grade sea salt solution. Being concerned about the adsorption of metals
  through

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Jim Holmes]

Has anyone calculated the optimal weight/volume of C per unit volume of
aprox 10 ppm total mixed particulate and ionic?

Does this mean someone will soon be marketing a new super remedy that deals
with heart disease and infectious disease at the same time?

Jim

On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Marshall mdud...@king-cart.com wrote:

 **
 This research paper indicates that silver ascorbate apparently forms for
 about one second before becoming silver.  It is interesting, according to
 this paper, that the silver when using fairly high concentrations of silver
 nitrate and ascorbic acid produce silver flowers with petals.

 http://144.206.159.178/ft/566/63657/1082609.pdf

 I can't seem to copy and paste the appropriate section, but it is on the
 right hand side of page 3, second paragraph.

 Marshall


 On 5/2/2012 2:29 AM, David AuBuchon wrote:

 And if ascorbic acid makes metallic silver, then what is silver ascorbate?

 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM, David AuBuchon 
 aubuchon.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 Does exposing EIS to sun reduce ions to particles?

  On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David AuBuchon aubuchon.da...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 Questions/Comments:

 1.  In addition to adding H202 after the ascorbic acid, what difference
 (if any) might there be if one first added H2O2 and added the ascorbic acid
 second?

 2.  If I am not mistake, ascorbic acid could sneakily fit the definition
 of a carbohydrate ?  This may give more insight to what the SilverLungs
 person uses.  But he called it a custom blended carbohydrate which would
 imply more than one ingredient.  Though he could have added 1 carbon atom
 perhaps.

 3.  I may try both vit C and peroxide with the 100uS brew I have.  If
 this works, then we have (at least in theory) a means of making silver ions
 at concentrations with no theoretical limit (via ultra low current), and
 then making high PPM colloidal suspensions by reducing those brews.  The
 home brewer could then do it all if someone developed the method enough.

 David




 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.comwrote:

  How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you were.

  N.

  --
 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400

 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I no
 longer have it.

 Marshall

 On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

  Additional question Marshall...

  Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end of next
 month, June} and let me know if there is any settlement observable please.

  N.

  Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
  From: mdud...@king-cart.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
   Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
   believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
   primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
   sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light
 and
   thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is still stable.
  
   Marshall
  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

  Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

  Jim Holmes
  Thu, 03 May 2012 11:35:50 -0700

   Has anyone  calculated  the optimal weight/volume  of  C  per unit
   volume of aprox 10 ppm total mixed particulate and ionic?

  Please let me put this to bed.

  If you are ingesting cs, it makes no difference.

  To review,  the equation of the silver electrolysis reaction  at the
  cathode is

  H2O + e- -- H + OH-

  This means  the  cathode  releases an  electron.  The  closest water
  molecule grabs it and deionizes one of the two hydrogen ions to form
  a neutral hydrogen atom and a negative hydroxide ion.

  This reaction shows why it is impossible to force electrons  to flow
  in an  electrolyte,  and it shows  why  blood  electrification using
  Zappers cannot  work   as   described.   The   reaction  is actually
  iontophoresis, which can deposit copper ions into the surface of the
  skin. It will also deposit any other contamination, such as deposits
  in the sponge or cotton fabric, and plastic residue from  the copper
  insulation if  you use copper wire. If you use copper pipe,  it will
  be contaminated  with  all  kinds of residues  that  embed  into the
  surface. None of this is good to inject into your body.

  Back to siler electrolysis. The reaction at the anode is

  Ag - e- -- Ag+

  This means a neutral silver atom releases an electron and  becomes a
  positive silver  ion. This enters the solution, but it  is invisible
  and does  not show up as Tyndall, and does not affect  the  color of
  the solution. The silver ions repel each other and will not combine.

  The two opposite ions will drift towards each other slowly under the
  influence of the electric field across the cell. I have done studies
  on this  and reported them to the SilverList and also to  the Silver
  Central forum.

  When the silver ions reach the cathode, several things can happen.

  At low currents, the ions simply plate out and form  silver whiskers
  hanging down  from the cathode. (I assume you are using  a U-channel
  and not straight electrodes from the old 3 nines.)

  At higher currents, the silver plates out faster and starts  to form
  a sludge  on the bottom of the U-channel. This can combine  with the
  hydrogen gas  and  form bubbles. These can rise to  the  surface and
  form a thin sheen of silver, probably one atom thick. You can ignore
  it and not worry about trying to skim it off with a tissue or try to
  filter it out. Both methods will release far more contamination from
  the paper process that will combine with the silver ions  and remove
  them from the solution.

  At still  higher currents, the incoming ions start  to  combine with
  the outgoing  hydroxide  ions  and form  silver  hydroxide.  This is
  insoluble, inert,  and  has no biological activity.  About  half may
  stick to  the  cathode, some may fall to the bottom of  the  jar and
  form a  black  spot,  and some will enter  the  solution  as neutral
  particles.

  The equation is

  Ag+ + OH- -- AgOH

  At this  point,  the  particles  are far too  small  to  show  up as
  Tyndall, and  cannot be seen with the naked eye. However,  they will
  eventually combine  due  to  van Der Walls  forces  and  form larger
  particles. These become large enough to show up as Tyndall, and will
  absorb some  of  the  blue light from the  spectrum  due  to plasmon
  absorbance. This leaves red and green, which combine to form yellow.

  The yellow  in the spectrum remains yellow, and the overall  tint is
  the distinctive yellow tint of collodial silver.

  Please note  the color does not change with particle size,  only the
  depth of  the  yellow  tint.   The   absorbance  is  due  to plasmon
  absorbance and not reflection, which is affected by the size  of the
  particles and does change color.

  The reaction  at the anode depends on the cell  current  density. At
  low current,  the ion density is not high enough for the  silver and
  hydroxide ions  to  find  each other,  and  no  silver  hydroxide is
  produced. This is the foundation of the SilverCell process. Every cs
  generator has  a critical threshold current that I  call  the Nernst
  Threshold. This  determines the ion density in the  Nernst Diffusion
  region next to the surface of the electrode. If the cell  current is
  below this  threshold, you cannot form  silver  hydroxide particles,
  and there  will  be  no Tyndall, and the  solution  will  never turn
  yellow.

  At higher  cell  current,  the ion density is  high  enough  for the
  silver and  hydroxide ions to find each other, and  they  combine to
  form silver  hydroxide. The equation is shown above. Again,  some of
  the AgOH will stick to the anode, some may fall to the bottom of the
  jar, and  some  will  disperse into the  dw.  However,  it  does not
  dissolve, and will eventually combine due to van Der Walls forces as
  described above.

  When the  process starts forming AgOH, you must terminate  the brew

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Mike Monett]

This is a repost. The original did not make it to the maillist archive, so
I am trying again. Sorry if it is a dupe.

  Mike Monett mrmon...@pstca.com wrote:

   This reaction  shows  why it is impossible to  force  electrons to
   flow in  an  electrolyte, and it shows  why  blood electrification
   using Zappers  cannot work as described. The reaction  is actually
   iontophoresis, which  can deposit copper ions into the  surface of
   the skin.  It will also deposit any other  contamination,  such as
   deposits in the sponge or cotton fabric, and plastic  residue from
   the copper  insulation if you use copper wire. If  you  use copper
   pipe, it  will  be contaminated with all  kinds  of  residues that
   embed into  the surface. None of this is good to inject  into your
   body.

  I forgot to mention that many people use stainless  steel electrodes
  in their zappers. This can be extremely hazardous due to the release
  of hexavalent  chromium   from   the   stainless   steel  durint the
  electrolysis. Here is more information on this problem:

  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/silvercentral/message/297
  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/silvercentral/message/489
  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/silvercentral/message/493

  Thanks,

  Mike Monett


--
The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[David AuBuchon]

Does exposing EIS to sun reduce ions to particles?

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David AuBuchon aubuchon.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 Questions/Comments:

 1.  In addition to adding H202 after the ascorbic acid, what difference
 (if any) might there be if one first added H2O2 and added the ascorbic acid
 second?

 2.  If I am not mistake, ascorbic acid could sneakily fit the definition
 of a carbohydrate ?  This may give more insight to what the SilverLungs
 person uses.  But he called it a custom blended carbohydrate which would
 imply more than one ingredient.  Though he could have added 1 carbon atom
 perhaps.

 3.  I may try both vit C and peroxide with the 100uS brew I have.  If this
 works, then we have (at least in theory) a means of making silver ions at
 concentrations with no theoretical limit (via ultra low current), and then
 making high PPM colloidal suspensions by reducing those brews.  The home
 brewer could then do it all if someone developed the method enough.

 David




 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.comwrote:

  How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you were.

 N.

 --
 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400

 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I no
 longer have it.

 Marshall

 On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

  Additional question Marshall...

  Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end of next
 month, June} and let me know if there is any settlement observable please.

  N.

  Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
  From: mdud...@king-cart.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
   Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
   believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
   primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
   sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and
   thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is still stable.
  
   Marshall
  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[David AuBuchon]

And if ascorbic acid makes metallic silver, then what is silver ascorbate?

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM, David AuBuchon aubuchon.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 Does exposing EIS to sun reduce ions to particles?

 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David AuBuchon 
 aubuchon.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 Questions/Comments:

 1.  In addition to adding H202 after the ascorbic acid, what difference
 (if any) might there be if one first added H2O2 and added the ascorbic acid
 second?

 2.  If I am not mistake, ascorbic acid could sneakily fit the definition
 of a carbohydrate ?  This may give more insight to what the SilverLungs
 person uses.  But he called it a custom blended carbohydrate which would
 imply more than one ingredient.  Though he could have added 1 carbon atom
 perhaps.

 3.  I may try both vit C and peroxide with the 100uS brew I have.  If
 this works, then we have (at least in theory) a means of making silver ions
 at concentrations with no theoretical limit (via ultra low current), and
 then making high PPM colloidal suspensions by reducing those brews.  The
 home brewer could then do it all if someone developed the method enough.

 David




 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.comwrote:

  How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you were.

 N.

 --
 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400

 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I no
 longer have it.

 Marshall

 On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

  Additional question Marshall...

  Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end of next
 month, June} and let me know if there is any settlement observable please.

  N.

  Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
  From: mdud...@king-cart.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
   Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
   believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
   primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
   sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light
 and
   thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is still stable.
  
   Marshall
  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[David AuBuchon]

Mixed vitamin C with about 14 PPM EIS.  Clear.  Laser pointer broken, so
can't observe Tyndall.

Mixed vitamin C with about 100PPM EIS.  White milky color.  Did not clear
up.

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 11:29 PM, David AuBuchon aubuchon.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 And if ascorbic acid makes metallic silver, then what is silver ascorbate?


 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM, David AuBuchon 
 aubuchon.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 Does exposing EIS to sun reduce ions to particles?

 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David AuBuchon 
 aubuchon.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 Questions/Comments:

 1.  In addition to adding H202 after the ascorbic acid, what difference
 (if any) might there be if one first added H2O2 and added the ascorbic acid
 second?

 2.  If I am not mistake, ascorbic acid could sneakily fit the definition
 of a carbohydrate ?  This may give more insight to what the SilverLungs
 person uses.  But he called it a custom blended carbohydrate which would
 imply more than one ingredient.  Though he could have added 1 carbon atom
 perhaps.

 3.  I may try both vit C and peroxide with the 100uS brew I have.  If
 this works, then we have (at least in theory) a means of making silver ions
 at concentrations with no theoretical limit (via ultra low current), and
 then making high PPM colloidal suspensions by reducing those brews.  The
 home brewer could then do it all if someone developed the method enough.

 David




 On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.comwrote:

  How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you were.

 N.

 --
 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400

 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I no
 longer have it.

 Marshall

 On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

  Additional question Marshall...

  Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end of next
 month, June} and let me know if there is any settlement observable please.

  N.

  Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
  From: mdud...@king-cart.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
   Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
   believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
   primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
   sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light
 and
   thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is still stable.
  
   Marshall
  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Ode Coyote]

At 11:21 PM 5/1/2012 -0700, you wrote:

Does exposing EIS to sun reduce ions to particles?



No

ode

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[MaryAnn Helland]

There you go again -- getting all verbose Ode!!!    hahahaha..!!
MA



From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 7:34:12 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

At 11:21 PM 5/1/2012 -0700, you wrote:

Does exposing EIS to sun reduce ions to particles?  

No

ode

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall]

On 5/2/2012 12:19 AM, David AuBuchon wrote:

Questions/Comments:

1.  In addition to adding H202 after the ascorbic acid, what 
difference (if any) might there be if one first added H2O2 and added 
the ascorbic acid second?


2.  If I am not mistake, ascorbic acid could sneakily fit the 
definition of a carbohydrate ?  This may give more insight to what 
the SilverLungs person uses.  But he called it a custom blended 
carbohydrate which would imply more than one ingredient.  Though he 
could have added 1 carbon atom perhaps.


Interesting, the chemical makeup does make it a partially oxidized 
carbohydrate.  I never realized that before.


3.  I may try both vit C and peroxide with the 100uS brew I have.  If 
this works, then we have (at least in theory) a means of making silver 
ions at concentrations with no theoretical limit (via ultra low 
current), and then making high PPM colloidal suspensions by reducing 
those brews.  The home brewer could then do it all if someone 
developed the method enough.


Let us know what you find out.

Marshall


David



On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com 
mailto:one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:


How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you were.

N.


Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400

From: mdud...@king-cart.com mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I
no longer have it.

Marshall

On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

Additional question Marshall...

Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end
of next month, June} and let me know if there is any
settlement observable please.

N.

 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
 From: mdud...@king-cart.com mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
  Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with color,
leading me to
  believe that the particles are very small so they are
absorbing
  primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue,
but still
  sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection
of light and
  thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is still
stable.
 
  Marshall
 

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall]

This research paper indicates that silver ascorbate apparently forms for 
about one second before becoming silver.  It is interesting, according 
to this paper, that the silver when using fairly high concentrations of 
silver nitrate and ascorbic acid produce silver flowers with petals.


http://144.206.159.178/ft/566/63657/1082609.pdf

I can't seem to copy and paste the appropriate section, but it is on the 
right hand side of page 3, second paragraph.


Marshall

On 5/2/2012 2:29 AM, David AuBuchon wrote:

And if ascorbic acid makes metallic silver, then what is silver ascorbate?

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 11:21 PM, David AuBuchon 
aubuchon.da...@gmail.com mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com wrote:


Does exposing EIS to sun reduce ions to particles?

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:19 PM, David AuBuchon
aubuchon.da...@gmail.com mailto:aubuchon.da...@gmail.com wrote:

Questions/Comments:

1.  In addition to adding H202 after the ascorbic acid, what
difference (if any) might there be if one first added H2O2 and
added the ascorbic acid second?

2.  If I am not mistake, ascorbic acid could sneakily fit the
definition of a carbohydrate ?  This may give more insight
to what the SilverLungs person uses.  But he called it a
custom blended carbohydrate which would imply more than one
ingredient.  Though he could have added 1 carbon atom perhaps.

3.  I may try both vit C and peroxide with the 100uS brew I
have.  If this works, then we have (at least in theory) a
means of making silver ions at concentrations with no
theoretical limit (via ultra low current), and then making
high PPM colloidal suspensions by reducing those brews.  The
home brewer could then do it all if someone developed the
method enough.

David




On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Neville Munn
one.red...@hotmail.com mailto:one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:

How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you
were.

N.



Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400

From: mdud...@king-cart.com mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I would have to make some more, that was done back in
2010, and I no longer have it.

Marshall

On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

Additional question Marshall...

Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle
or end of next month, June} and let me know if there
is any settlement observable please.

N.

 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
mailto:silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
  Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with
color, leading me to
  believe that the particles are very small so they
are absorbing
  primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the
blue, but still
  sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of
reflection of light and
  thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is
still stable.
 
  Marshall
 

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Ode Coyote]

  I know I should do this myself...don't have any ascorbic acid right now.

What happens if you put a touch of H2O2 in the stable light yellow brew?

Ode


At 12:23 AM 5/1/2012 -0400, you wrote:

On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to 
believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing primarily 
in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still sufficient in 
quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and thus the 
tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.


Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:



Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the
photo?

Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to 
have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the 
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch 
of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch 
of ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but 
appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of 
the beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red 
color, which is really only red because the laser light is red.  The 
actual color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the side, 
but somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.  Viewing on a 
white background and illuminated from the rear it is more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Neville Munn]

Additional question Marshall...
Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end of next month, 
June} and let me know if there is any settlement observable please.
N.
 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
 On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
  Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to 
  believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing 
  primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still 
  sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and 
  thus the tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.
 
  Marshall
 

  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall]

With ascorbic acid present, I don't know, but it would be easy to test.  
If you could add exactly enough ammonium hydroxide to exactly react with 
with the ascorbic acid, with the water at pH of 7, I would expect it 
might break up the particles, producing a combination of both small 
particles and ionic silver, identical to what you get if you had never 
added the ascorbic acid in the first place.


Marshall

On 5/1/2012 6:51 AM, Ode Coyote wrote:



  I know I should do this myself...don't have any ascorbic acid right now.

What happens if you put a touch of H2O2 in the stable light yellow brew?

Ode


At 12:23 AM 5/1/2012 -0400, you wrote:

On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to 
believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing 
primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still 
sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light 
and thus the tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.


Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:



Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the
photo?

Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I 
had to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint 
of the Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS 
with a pinch of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled 
water with a pinch of ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, 
but appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the 
reflection of the beam off other particles gives the entire left 
hand glass a red color, which is really only red because the laser 
light is red.  The actual color is more of a yellow if white light 
comes in from the side, but somewhat murky due to the large number 
of particles.  Viewing on a white background and illuminated from 
the rear it is more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall]

I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I no 
longer have it.


Marshall

On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

Additional question Marshall...

Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end of next 
month, June} and let me know if there is any settlement observable please.


N.

 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
  Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
  believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
  primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
  sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and
  thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is still stable.
 
  Marshall
 

RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Neville Munn]

How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you were.
N.

Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400
From: mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS



  

  
  
I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I no
longer have it.



Marshall



On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

  
  
Additional question Marshall...



Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or
  end of next month, June} and let me know if there is any
  settlement observable please.



N.


   Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400

 From: mdud...@king-cart.com

 To: silver-list@eskimo.com

 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 

 On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:

  Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with
color, leading me to 

  believe that the particles are very small so they
are absorbing 

  primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the
blue, but still 

  sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of
reflection of light and 

  thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is
still stable.

 

  Marshall

 



  

  


  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[David AuBuchon]

Questions/Comments:

1.  In addition to adding H202 after the ascorbic acid, what difference (if
any) might there be if one first added H2O2 and added the ascorbic acid
second?

2.  If I am not mistake, ascorbic acid could sneakily fit the definition of
a carbohydrate ?  This may give more insight to what the SilverLungs
person uses.  But he called it a custom blended carbohydrate which would
imply more than one ingredient.  Though he could have added 1 carbon atom
perhaps.

3.  I may try both vit C and peroxide with the 100uS brew I have.  If this
works, then we have (at least in theory) a means of making silver ions at
concentrations with no theoretical limit (via ultra low current), and then
making high PPM colloidal suspensions by reducing those brews.  The home
brewer could then do it all if someone developed the method enough.

David



On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Neville Munn one.red...@hotmail.com wrote:

  How thick am I?  Sorry, wasn't following the dates, as you were.

 N.

 --
 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:11:30 -0400

 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 I would have to make some more, that was done back in 2010, and I no
 longer have it.

 Marshall

 On 5/1/2012 7:27 AM, Neville Munn wrote:

  Additional question Marshall...

  Could you report back on this in 4 weeks time {middle or end of next
 month, June} and let me know if there is any settlement observable please.

  N.

  Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:23:01 -0400
  From: mdud...@king-cart.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
   Very light yellow. It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
   believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
   primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
   sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and
   thus the tremendous Tyndall. After two days it is still stable.
  
   Marshall
  

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

On 3/11/2010 12:05 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a 
pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will 
almost immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver 
particles of one and 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.


Reference: 
http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf /page 
139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are 
reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./


Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

On 3/11/2010 10:25 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
It has thus far, tried it with 15 ppm, gave me a heck of a Tyndall and 
a slight yellow color.


Marshall

Norton, Steve wrote:


Very interesting indeed. I assume the silver remained in suspension? 
The CS manufacturers won't like this. :-)

Nice discovery.

 - Steve N

- Original Message -
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed Mar 10 23:05:13 2010
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a
pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will
almost immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles
of one and 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf
/page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they
are reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

On 3/11/2010 10:27 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:

Richard Goodwin wrote:

Cool!  So I could probably dissolve a vit C tablet in there and it would

do

 the same thing.

Not necessarily.  There could be components in it that bind with 
silver more tightly than the loosely bound oxide and hydroxide, and if 
they grab it first it would not reduce.  When other compounds and 
elements are added, all bets are off.


Marshall

But ... if the ionic form is more effective for most things, then would

you

 want to convert it all to non-ionic particles?

Or would you maybe want to mix the two?  The non-ionic form lasts longer

in

 your blood when you drink it, yes?

But does it kill bacteria and viruses and lyme as well?

Dick



- Original Message 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, March 11, 2010 12:05:13 AM
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a

pinch

 of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost
 immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of 
one

and 2

 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf
 /page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, 
they

are

 reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

On 3/11/2010 5:28 PM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had 
to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the 
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch 
of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch 
of ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but 
appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of 
the beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red 
color, which is really only red because the laser light is red.  The 
actual color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the 
side, but somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.  
Viewing on a white background and illuminated from the rear it is more 
bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

On 3/12/2010 10:53 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to 
believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing 
primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still 
sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and 
thus the tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.


Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:



Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the
photo?

Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had 
to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the 
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a 
pinch of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with 
a pinch of ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, 
but appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the 
reflection of the beam off other particles gives the entire left 
hand glass a red color, which is really only red because the laser 
light is red.  The actual color is more of a yellow if white light 
comes in from the side, but somewhat murky due to the large number 
of particles.  Viewing on a white background and illuminated from 
the rear it is more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Neville Munn]

A question if you don't mind Marshall, correct me if I'm wrong but the normal 
EIS/CS contains clusters of ions which are commonly termed 'particles', and 
each ion in the cluster is surrounded or trapped within a liquid 
medium...Yes/No?
If adding vitamin C converts these clusters to particles, then can I assume 
that the liquid surrounding or trapping each ion is removed...Yes/No?  Thereby 
creating those metallic particles you speak of...Yes/No?
N.

 Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 00:16:24 -0400
 From: mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
 On 3/11/2010 12:05 AM, Marshall Dudley wrote:
  I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a 
  pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will 
  almost immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver 
  particles of one and 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.
 
  Reference: 
  http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf /page 
  139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are 
  reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./
 
  Marshall
 
 
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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

It has been about a month now, and I decided to check my 100% colloidal
solution.

I opened the lid, and the solution is brown.

Maybe closer to reddish brown.

It has a weak tyndale effect.

This is the solution that I added baking soda to in an effort to raise the
PH to neutral.

Is brown good?

Any ideas?

Tom




- Original Message - 
From: poast po...@prodigy.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 Hello Steve,

 Original color was clear, upon adding the ascorbic acid the solution
turned
 cloudy but the color was still clear, after a few days most of the
 cloudiness cleared up and it is still clear in color.  The tyndall effect
is
 much stronger after adding the ascorbic acid.

 Tom

 - Original Message - 
 From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:58 AM
 Subject: RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 Tom,
 What was the color of your solution before and after adding ascorbic
 acid? Did the color change after the precipitated occurred?
 Thanks,
 Steve N

 -


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Marshall,

It has been a couple of days now, and there is some silver that is now
covering the bottom of my bottle.

I added some baking soda to the solution and brought the PH up to 6.7.  The
ORP now reads around 20.  I believe the earlier reading was around 186, so
there seems to be some relationship to PH.  While 20 is not quite 0, it is
pretty close, and I am still a little acidic with the solution.

The amount of silver on the bottom of the bottle looks to be about the same
as was observed in the other bottle.

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: poast po...@prodigy.net
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 Hello Marshall,

 In theory you are correct.  IF all of the silver oxide has been converted
to
 silver metal, the ORP should read 0.

 However, I have found that ORP measurement can be less than exact under
 certain conditions.  I use it as a general indicator and to monitor
change.

 For example, if you have a pond with some fish in it and the ORP of the
pond
 water drops below around 250 algae will begin to form.  However, if you
 raise the ORP of the water to above around 550, you will kill the fish.

 You can use the same numbers for the water for cut flowers or for a cut
 Christmas tree.  When the ORP of the water drops below 250, stemic rot
will
 form and a biofilm will form in the container.  This will block the plants
 ability to absorb water and the flower or tree will quickly dry out.  If
you
 use water that has an ORP much above 550, you will poison the flowers or
 tree, and they will quickly dry out.  If you use water in the sweet
range,
 you will double the life of the flowers or tree.

 H2O2 starts out with an ORP of around 450.  This level drops as the H2O2
 ages.

 When purifying water with chlorine or chlorine dioxide you want the ORP to
 be above 650.

 I seem to remember that there may be a loose relationship between ORP and
 PH.  I may be above 0 because the PH of the solution is below neutral.
I'll
 add some baking soda to the solution to bring the PH to 7 and measure the
 ORP again.

 Tom


 - Original Message - 
 From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
 To: silver-list@eskimo.com
 Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:19 AM
 Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


  So, if I am understanding this correctly, the more positive the ORP is,
  the more oxidative it is.  Thus the drop in the ORP would indicate that
  something that was oxidative (silver oxide) has been reduced (now silver
  metal).  Unless I am misinterpreting, that is what I would expect.
  However if all the silver was reduced though, the question for me is,
  what is still there that is oxidizing, that is why is the ORP not 0?
 
  Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

So, if I am understanding this correctly, the more positive the ORP is, 
the more oxidative it is.  Thus the drop in the ORP would indicate that 
something that was oxidative (silver oxide) has been reduced (now silver 
metal).  Unless I am misinterpreting, that is what I would expect.  
However if all the silver was reduced though, the question for me is, 
what is still there that is oxidizing, that is why is the ORP not 0?


Marshall

poast wrote:

Hello Marshall,

Oxygen reduction potential (ORP) is measured using equipment similar to that
used to measure PH.  The probe is constructed differently from the PH probe,
but the measurement process is similar.

Here is an introductory article on ORP.

http://www.rhtubs.com/ORP.htm

My interest in ORP comes from exploring the concept of using EIS to
disinfect raw water for drinking, and to explore its use to disinfect waste
water for emergency sanitation in the event of a natural (or unnatural)
disaster.

Tom

- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


  

poast wrote:


Hello Marshall,

Another interesting observation...

The oxidation reduction potential of my EIS is around 0.550 mV.  The
solution that I added the ascorbic acid to comes in at around 0.186 mV.
  

I
  

don't know if this is significant, but it is interesting.


  

Can you elaborate on this? How do you do the measurement?

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Marshall,

In theory you are correct.  IF all of the silver oxide has been converted to
silver metal, the ORP should read 0.

However, I have found that ORP measurement can be less than exact under
certain conditions.  I use it as a general indicator and to monitor change.

For example, if you have a pond with some fish in it and the ORP of the pond
water drops below around 250 algae will begin to form.  However, if you
raise the ORP of the water to above around 550, you will kill the fish.

You can use the same numbers for the water for cut flowers or for a cut
Christmas tree.  When the ORP of the water drops below 250, stemic rot will
form and a biofilm will form in the container.  This will block the plants
ability to absorb water and the flower or tree will quickly dry out.  If you
use water that has an ORP much above 550, you will poison the flowers or
tree, and they will quickly dry out.  If you use water in the sweet range,
you will double the life of the flowers or tree.

H2O2 starts out with an ORP of around 450.  This level drops as the H2O2
ages.

When purifying water with chlorine or chlorine dioxide you want the ORP to
be above 650.

I seem to remember that there may be a loose relationship between ORP and
PH.  I may be above 0 because the PH of the solution is below neutral.  I'll
add some baking soda to the solution to bring the PH to 7 and measure the
ORP again.

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 So, if I am understanding this correctly, the more positive the ORP is,
 the more oxidative it is.  Thus the drop in the ORP would indicate that
 something that was oxidative (silver oxide) has been reduced (now silver
 metal).  Unless I am misinterpreting, that is what I would expect.
 However if all the silver was reduced though, the question for me is,
 what is still there that is oxidizing, that is why is the ORP not 0?

 Marshall

 poast wrote:
  Hello Marshall,
 
  Oxygen reduction potential (ORP) is measured using equipment similar to
that
  used to measure PH.  The probe is constructed differently from the PH
probe,
  but the measurement process is similar.
 
  Here is an introductory article on ORP.
 
  http://www.rhtubs.com/ORP.htm
 
  My interest in ORP comes from exploring the concept of using EIS to
  disinfect raw water for drinking, and to explore its use to disinfect
waste
  water for emergency sanitation in the event of a natural (or unnatural)
  disaster.
 
  Tom


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Marshall,

Some additional information...

My EIS ends up with a PH of 6.5.  The solution that I added the ascorbic
acid to ended up with a PH of 3.5.

I know that some reactions are sensitive to PH, so an idea would be to pick
a PH target and add only as much ascorbic acid as is needed to reduce the PH
of the solution to the target value.

I used a pinch of ascorbic acid in 250 ml of EIS.  I have measuring spoons
that measure a drop, smidgen, pinch, dash, and tad.  In liquid measurement a
pinch is 0.3125 ml.  I just measured a pinch of ascorbic acid and it came in
at 0.31 grams.

Too much?  Too little?  Normal reaction?

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 That is some good information.  I was wondering if the addition of
 ascorbic acid would cause 1 and 2 atom colloid, or if it would
 precipitate out on the particles that are already there, that indicates
 that at least some of them precipitate out on other particles making the
 rather large.  The other possibility would be that the remaining
 ascorbic acid made the solution acid enough to make the colloid
 unstable.  I need to test and see if I neutralize the free acid if the
 same thing happens.

 Marshall

 poast wrote:
  Hello Marshall,
 
  3 days ago I put a pinch of ascorbic acid in some EIS and have stored
this
  solution in a white 250 ml HDPE bottle.  I took the lid off this morning
and
  noticed that some of the silver had precipitated out.  I shook the
bottle
  and it went back into solution.
 
  There wasn't a large quantity, but against the white bottom it was
evident
  that there was some.
 
  I am using the SG6.  My EIS comes out at around 15 uS, then settles down
to
  about 11.5 uS in a few days.
 
  Tom


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

poast wrote:

Hello Marshall,

Some additional information...

My EIS ends up with a PH of 6.5.  The solution that I added the ascorbic
acid to ended up with a PH of 3.5.

I know that some reactions are sensitive to PH, so an idea would be to pick
a PH target and add only as much ascorbic acid as is needed to reduce the PH
of the solution to the target value.
  
Actually the target value for the best stability for colloidal silver is 
7.0.

I used a pinch of ascorbic acid in 250 ml of EIS.  I have measuring spoons
that measure a drop, smidgen, pinch, dash, and tad.  In liquid measurement a
pinch is 0.3125 ml.  I just measured a pinch of ascorbic acid and it came in
at 0.31 grams.

Too much?  Too little?  Normal reaction?
  
Well, let's see.  If you have 8 oz of 10 ppm CS, and 90% of that is 
ionic, you would need the same molar quantity to react with it of 
ascorbic acid b(I think this is a valid assumption). That would be 
8*10*.9/(108 (108 is the molecular weight of silver) mol.  Since 
citric acid has a molecular weight of 192, that would require that 
amount to be multiplied by 192 which gives .0128 ounce of ascorbic acid, 
which equals 0.36288 grams.


That yours ended up with that low of a pH requires some rethinking.  We 
have approximately the same proportion of both Ag2O2 and AgOH.  If it 
only takes one molecule of ascorbic acid to break apart Ag2O2, then that 
would mean you only need half as much for that part, or in general only 
75% of what I figured above.  this works out to .272 grams.


Now if you actually used less ascorbic acid, the pH may still be low due 
to the following possibilities:


1. Any absorbed CO2 is released and becomes carbonic acid.
2. Ascorbic acid may act as a catalyst instead of getting involved in 
the reaction.


Good research, we need to keep trying things.

Marshall

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


  

That is some good information.  I was wondering if the addition of
ascorbic acid would cause 1 and 2 atom colloid, or if it would
precipitate out on the particles that are already there, that indicates
that at least some of them precipitate out on other particles making the
rather large.  The other possibility would be that the remaining
ascorbic acid made the solution acid enough to make the colloid
unstable.  I need to test and see if I neutralize the free acid if the
same thing happens.

Marshall

poast wrote:


Hello Marshall,

3 days ago I put a pinch of ascorbic acid in some EIS and have stored
  

this
  

solution in a white 250 ml HDPE bottle.  I took the lid off this morning
  

and
  

noticed that some of the silver had precipitated out.  I shook the
  

bottle
  

and it went back into solution.

There wasn't a large quantity, but against the white bottom it was
  

evident
  

that there was some.

I am using the SG6.  My EIS comes out at around 15 uS, then settles down
  

to
  

about 11.5 uS in a few days.

Tom
  



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RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Norton, Steve]

Tom,
What was the color of your solution before and after adding ascorbic
acid? Did the color change after the precipitated occurred?
Thanks,
Steve N

-Original Message-
From: poast [mailto:po...@prodigy.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:10 AM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Hello Marshall,

Some additional information...

My EIS ends up with a PH of 6.5.  The solution that I added the ascorbic
acid to ended up with a PH of 3.5.

I know that some reactions are sensitive to PH, so an idea would be to
pick
a PH target and add only as much ascorbic acid as is needed to reduce
the PH
of the solution to the target value.

I used a pinch of ascorbic acid in 250 ml of EIS.  I have measuring
spoons
that measure a drop, smidgen, pinch, dash, and tad.  In liquid
measurement a
pinch is 0.3125 ml.  I just measured a pinch of ascorbic acid and it
came in
at 0.31 grams.

Too much?  Too little?  Normal reaction?

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 That is some good information.  I was wondering if the addition of
 ascorbic acid would cause 1 and 2 atom colloid, or if it would
 precipitate out on the particles that are already there, that
indicates
 that at least some of them precipitate out on other particles making
the
 rather large.  The other possibility would be that the remaining
 ascorbic acid made the solution acid enough to make the colloid
 unstable.  I need to test and see if I neutralize the free acid if the
 same thing happens.

 Marshall

 poast wrote:
  Hello Marshall,
 
  3 days ago I put a pinch of ascorbic acid in some EIS and have
stored
this
  solution in a white 250 ml HDPE bottle.  I took the lid off this
morning
and
  noticed that some of the silver had precipitated out.  I shook the
bottle
  and it went back into solution.
 
  There wasn't a large quantity, but against the white bottom it was
evident
  that there was some.
 
  I am using the SG6.  My EIS comes out at around 15 uS, then settles
down
to
  about 11.5 uS in a few days.
 
  Tom


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

It was crystal clear before adding, and somewhat foggy with a yellow 
tinge after adding.  I never got any noticeable precipitation.


Marshall

Norton, Steve wrote:

Tom,
What was the color of your solution before and after adding ascorbic
acid? Did the color change after the precipitated occurred?
Thanks,
Steve N

-Original Message-
From: poast [mailto:po...@prodigy.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:10 AM

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Hello Marshall,

Some additional information...

My EIS ends up with a PH of 6.5.  The solution that I added the ascorbic
acid to ended up with a PH of 3.5.

I know that some reactions are sensitive to PH, so an idea would be to
pick
a PH target and add only as much ascorbic acid as is needed to reduce
the PH
of the solution to the target value.

I used a pinch of ascorbic acid in 250 ml of EIS.  I have measuring
spoons
that measure a drop, smidgen, pinch, dash, and tad.  In liquid
measurement a
pinch is 0.3125 ml.  I just measured a pinch of ascorbic acid and it
came in
at 0.31 grams.

Too much?  Too little?  Normal reaction?

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


  

That is some good information.  I was wondering if the addition of
ascorbic acid would cause 1 and 2 atom colloid, or if it would
precipitate out on the particles that are already there, that


indicates
  

that at least some of them precipitate out on other particles making


the
  

rather large.  The other possibility would be that the remaining
ascorbic acid made the solution acid enough to make the colloid
unstable.  I need to test and see if I neutralize the free acid if the
same thing happens.

Marshall

poast wrote:


Hello Marshall,

3 days ago I put a pinch of ascorbic acid in some EIS and have
  

stored
this
  

solution in a white 250 ml HDPE bottle.  I took the lid off this
  

morning
and
  

noticed that some of the silver had precipitated out.  I shook the
  

bottle
  

and it went back into solution.

There wasn't a large quantity, but against the white bottom it was
  

evident
  

that there was some.

I am using the SG6.  My EIS comes out at around 15 uS, then settles
  

down
to
  

about 11.5 uS in a few days.

Tom
  



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Marshall,

Another interesting observation...

The oxidation reduction potential of my EIS is around 0.550 mV.  The
solution that I added the ascorbic acid to comes in at around 0.186 mV.  I
don't know if this is significant, but it is interesting.

I just mixed up another 250 ml bottle of EIS using 0.27 grams of ascorbic
acid this time.  The PH of this solution is 3.7.  It will take a couple of
days to see if anything settles out.

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 poast wrote:
  Hello Marshall,
 
  Some additional information...
 
  My EIS ends up with a PH of 6.5.  The solution that I added the ascorbic
  acid to ended up with a PH of 3.5.
 
  I know that some reactions are sensitive to PH, so an idea would be to
pick
  a PH target and add only as much ascorbic acid as is needed to reduce
the PH
  of the solution to the target value.
 
 Actually the target value for the best stability for colloidal silver is
 7.0.
  I used a pinch of ascorbic acid in 250 ml of EIS.  I have measuring
spoons
  that measure a drop, smidgen, pinch, dash, and tad.  In liquid
measurement a
  pinch is 0.3125 ml.  I just measured a pinch of ascorbic acid and it
came in
  at 0.31 grams.
 
  Too much?  Too little?  Normal reaction?
 
 Well, let's see.  If you have 8 oz of 10 ppm CS, and 90% of that is
 ionic, you would need the same molar quantity to react with it of
 ascorbic acid b(I think this is a valid assumption). That would be
 8*10*.9/(108 (108 is the molecular weight of silver) mol.  Since
 citric acid has a molecular weight of 192, that would require that
 amount to be multiplied by 192 which gives .0128 ounce of ascorbic acid,
 which equals 0.36288 grams.

 That yours ended up with that low of a pH requires some rethinking.  We
 have approximately the same proportion of both Ag2O2 and AgOH.  If it
 only takes one molecule of ascorbic acid to break apart Ag2O2, then that
 would mean you only need half as much for that part, or in general only
 75% of what I figured above.  this works out to .272 grams.

 Now if you actually used less ascorbic acid, the pH may still be low due
 to the following possibilities:

 1. Any absorbed CO2 is released and becomes carbonic acid.
 2. Ascorbic acid may act as a catalyst instead of getting involved in
 the reaction.

 Good research, we need to keep trying things.

 Marshall
  Tom


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Steve,

Original color was clear, upon adding the ascorbic acid the solution turned
cloudy but the color was still clear, after a few days most of the
cloudiness cleared up and it is still clear in color.  The tyndall effect is
much stronger after adding the ascorbic acid.

Tom

- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


Tom,
What was the color of your solution before and after adding ascorbic
acid? Did the color change after the precipitated occurred?
Thanks,
Steve N

-


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

poast wrote:

Hello Marshall,

Another interesting observation...

The oxidation reduction potential of my EIS is around 0.550 mV.  The
solution that I added the ascorbic acid to comes in at around 0.186 mV.  I
don't know if this is significant, but it is interesting.

  

Can you elaborate on this? How do you do the measurement?

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

I experienced much the same thing except mine has a slight yellow to it 
now.  The cloudiness MIGHT be due to very small oxygen bubbles being 
released when the silver reduces.  Or larger silver particles, which 
should be found on the bottom after they have settled out if that is the 
cause.


Marshall

poast wrote:

Hello Steve,

Original color was clear, upon adding the ascorbic acid the solution turned
cloudy but the color was still clear, after a few days most of the
cloudiness cleared up and it is still clear in color.  The tyndall effect is
much stronger after adding the ascorbic acid.

Tom

- Original Message - 
From: Norton, Steve stephen.nor...@ngc.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


Tom,
What was the color of your solution before and after adding ascorbic
acid? Did the color change after the precipitated occurred?
Thanks,
Steve N

-


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Marshall,

Oxygen reduction potential (ORP) is measured using equipment similar to that
used to measure PH.  The probe is constructed differently from the PH probe,
but the measurement process is similar.

Here is an introductory article on ORP.

http://www.rhtubs.com/ORP.htm

My interest in ORP comes from exploring the concept of using EIS to
disinfect raw water for drinking, and to explore its use to disinfect waste
water for emergency sanitation in the event of a natural (or unnatural)
disaster.

Tom

- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 poast wrote:
  Hello Marshall,
 
  Another interesting observation...
 
  The oxidation reduction potential of my EIS is around 0.550 mV.  The
  solution that I added the ascorbic acid to comes in at around 0.186 mV.
I
  don't know if this is significant, but it is interesting.
 
 
 Can you elaborate on this? How do you do the measurement?

 Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Marshall,

3 days ago I put a pinch of ascorbic acid in some EIS and have stored this
solution in a white 250 ml HDPE bottle.  I took the lid off this morning and
noticed that some of the silver had precipitated out.  I shook the bottle
and it went back into solution.

There wasn't a large quantity, but against the white bottom it was evident
that there was some.

I am using the SG6.  My EIS comes out at around 15 uS, then settles down to
about 11.5 uS in a few days.

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 I believe the effect would be the same, except there might be a
 difference in the particle sizes generated.  I have no experimental
 evidence at this time though to support this hypothesis.

 Marshall


 Dan Nave wrote:
  Marshall, this is quite interesting.
 
  Is the effect of adding the ascorbic acid after the EIS is made the
  same as the effect of adding the ascorbic acid to the brewing water,
  and then brewing up a batch?
 
  It would be an interesting experiment.
 
  Dan


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

That is some good information.  I was wondering if the addition of 
ascorbic acid would cause 1 and 2 atom colloid, or if it would 
precipitate out on the particles that are already there, that indicates 
that at least some of them precipitate out on other particles making the 
rather large.  The other possibility would be that the remaining 
ascorbic acid made the solution acid enough to make the colloid 
unstable.  I need to test and see if I neutralize the free acid if the 
same thing happens.


Marshall

poast wrote:

Hello Marshall,

3 days ago I put a pinch of ascorbic acid in some EIS and have stored this
solution in a white 250 ml HDPE bottle.  I took the lid off this morning and
noticed that some of the silver had precipitated out.  I shook the bottle
and it went back into solution.

There wasn't a large quantity, but against the white bottom it was evident
that there was some.

I am using the SG6.  My EIS comes out at around 15 uS, then settles down to
about 11.5 uS in a few days.

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


  

I believe the effect would be the same, except there might be a
difference in the particle sizes generated.  I have no experimental
evidence at this time though to support this hypothesis.

Marshall


Dan Nave wrote:


Marshall, this is quite interesting.

Is the effect of adding the ascorbic acid after the EIS is made the
same as the effect of adding the ascorbic acid to the brewing water,
and then brewing up a batch?

It would be an interesting experiment.

Dan
  



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Tony Moody]

Hi Marshall,

I've don't have ascorbate.

I've been taking EIS and vitC at virtually same time due to when I think 
I'm getting a cold I'll take both.  Also I quite often I do a buffered 
VitC and bicarb mix so that would be the ascorbate. Yes? 

Also note that I make EIS using tap water but with current control.

I have added a tiny amount of VitC powder, ascorbic acid, to some freshly 
made EIS , made in a bottle with some of the black silver tinge, 
especially at the bottom, The ascorbic acid didn't seem to have dissolved 
any of the black after about an hour? Uhh, its about a  day later; I've 
just had a look and the 'clear' has gone to a cloudy, light grey colour, 
the sediment has gone from a thin layer of black to a what seems a 
thicker layer of grey and brown. Taste has changed from something like a 
faint unidentifiable fruity flavour after an hour, to a 'flat', watery, 
metallic, sandy taste; . I'm not too good at tasting so I may be trying 
too hard. 

OK,
Tony

On 14 Mar 2010 at 13:08, Marshall Dudley wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

 Could someone who has sodium ascorbate powder try the experiment and see
 if that form of vitamin C converts EIS to pure colloid?  I believe that
 may be some important information, and all I have is ascorbic acid.  This
 brings into question anyone who might take both EIS AND vitamin C around
 the same time, it is likely that doing so might convert all the EIS to
 particulate form in the stomach, which may or may not be good.  I just
 don't know at this time.  If the sodium form does not convert, then to
 prevent the conversion in the stomach we maybe should recommend taking
 that form if taken about the same time as the EIS.
 
 Marshall
 
 Ode Coyote wrote:
 
 
I've observed 2 different sorts of yellow.
  One will be yellow anywhere and anyhow you look at it.
   The other is only yellow when viewed near yellowish things, like wood 
  and cardboard, but when taken out into full spectrum sunlight and 
  *looked through*, it loses all color...but also tends to pick up a
  slight green tinge if there's grass nearby.
   I suspect metallic silver mirrors of a size that eliminates 
  reflection of all but yellow and to a lessor extent, green colors. [but
  not blue that I've ever seen]
 
  Ode
 
 
 
  At 10:53 AM 3/12/2010 -0500, you wrote:
  Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
  believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
  primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
  sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and
  thus the tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.
 
  Marshall
 
  Ode Coyote wrote:
 
  Marshall
 
   What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting
   the
  photo?
 
  Ode
 
  From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
  To: silver-list@eskimo.com
  Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
  Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS
 
  Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had
  to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the
  Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a
  pinch of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a
  pinch of ascorbic acid added.
 
  Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red,
  but appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection
  of the beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a
  red color, which is really only red because the laser light is red.
  The actual color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the
  side, but somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.
  Viewing on a white background and illuminated from the rear it is
  more bluish.
 
  http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg
 
  Marshall
 
 
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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

I believe the effect would be the same, except there might be a 
difference in the particle sizes generated.  I have no experimental 
evidence at this time though to support this hypothesis.


Marshall


Dan Nave wrote:

Marshall, this is quite interesting.

Is the effect of adding the ascorbic acid after the EIS is made the
same as the effect of adding the ascorbic acid to the brewing water,
and then brewing up a batch?

It would be an interesting experiment.

Dan


On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com wrote:
  

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a pinch
of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost
immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of one and
2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf
/page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are
reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Tony Moody wrote:

Hi Marshall,

I've don't have ascorbate.

I've been taking EIS and vitC at virtually same time due to when I think 
I'm getting a cold I'll take both.  Also I quite often I do a buffered 
VitC and bicarb mix so that would be the ascorbate. Yes? 
  
Good point. I said that I did not have any ascorbate, but you are right, 
I can easily make my own.  The only problem is that if I have extra 
ascorbic acid or sodium bicarbonate, they could become involved in the 
reaction and mess up the results.

Also note that I make EIS using tap water but with current control.

I have added a tiny amount of VitC powder, ascorbic acid, to some freshly 
made EIS , made in a bottle with some of the black silver tinge, 
especially at the bottom, The ascorbic acid didn't seem to have dissolved 
any of the black after about an hour? 
It won't, it converts ionic silver to silver metal. The black stuff is 
already silver metal.
Uhh, its about a  day later; I've 
just had a look and the 'clear' has gone to a cloudy, light grey colour, 
the sediment has gone from a thin layer of black to a what seems a 
thicker layer of grey and brown. Taste has changed from something like a 
faint unidentifiable fruity flavour after an hour, to a 'flat', watery, 
metallic, sandy taste; . I'm not too good at tasting so I may be trying 
too hard. 
  
It is hard to say what you might have if you are using tap water, 
depending on what compounds are formed from the water impurities, the 
ascorbic acid may or may not react, and could actually produce something 
other than colloidal particles of silver.


Marshall

OK,
Tony

On 14 Mar 2010 at 13:08, Marshall Dudley wrote about :
Subject : Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

  

Could someone who has sodium ascorbate powder try the experiment and see
if that form of vitamin C converts EIS to pure colloid?  I believe that
may be some important information, and all I have is ascorbic acid.  This
brings into question anyone who might take both EIS AND vitamin C around
the same time, it is likely that doing so might convert all the EIS to
particulate form in the stomach, which may or may not be good.  I just
don't know at this time.  If the sodium form does not convert, then to
prevent the conversion in the stomach we maybe should recommend taking
that form if taken about the same time as the EIS.

Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:


  I've observed 2 different sorts of yellow.
One will be yellow anywhere and anyhow you look at it.
 The other is only yellow when viewed near yellowish things, like wood 
and cardboard, but when taken out into full spectrum sunlight and 
*looked through*, it loses all color...but also tends to pick up a

slight green tinge if there's grass nearby.
 I suspect metallic silver mirrors of a size that eliminates 
reflection of all but yellow and to a lessor extent, green colors. [but

not blue that I've ever seen]

Ode



At 10:53 AM 3/12/2010 -0500, you wrote:
  

Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to
believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing
primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still
sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and
thus the tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.

Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:


Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting
 the
photo?

Ode

  

From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had
to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a
pinch of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a
pinch of ascorbic acid added.

Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red,
but appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection
of the beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a
red color, which is really only red because the laser light is red.
The actual color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the
side, but somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.
Viewing on a white background and illuminated from the rear it is
more bluish.

http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Could someone who has sodium ascorbate powder try the experiment and see 
if that form of vitamin C converts EIS to pure colloid?  I believe that 
may be some important information, and all I have is ascorbic acid.  
This brings into question anyone who might take both EIS AND vitamin C 
around the same time, it is likely that doing so might convert all the 
EIS to particulate form in the stomach, which may or may not be good.  I 
just don't know at this time.  If the sodium form does not convert, then 
to prevent the conversion in the stomach we maybe should recommend 
taking that form if taken about the same time as the EIS.


Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:



  I've observed 2 different sorts of yellow.
One will be yellow anywhere and anyhow you look at it.
 The other is only yellow when viewed near yellowish things, like wood 
and cardboard, but when taken out into full spectrum sunlight and 
*looked through*, it loses all color...but also tends to pick up a 
slight green tinge if there's grass nearby.
 I suspect metallic silver mirrors of a size that eliminates 
reflection of all but yellow and to a lessor extent, green colors. 
[but not blue that I've ever seen]


Ode



At 10:53 AM 3/12/2010 -0500, you wrote:
Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to 
believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing 
primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still 
sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and 
thus the tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.


Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:



Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the
photo?

Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I 
had to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint 
of the Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS 
with a pinch of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled 
water with a pinch of ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, 
but appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the 
reflection of the beam off other particles gives the entire left 
hand glass a red color, which is really only red because the laser 
light is red.
The actual color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from 
the side, but somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.
Viewing on a white background and illuminated from the rear it is 
more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

I have sodium ascorbate Marshall, but wouldn't know how to begin!  I'm just 
about able to make EIS!  dee

On 14 Mar 2010, at 17:08, Marshall Dudley wrote:

 Could someone who has sodium ascorbate powder try the experiment and see if 
 that form of vitamin C converts EIS to pure colloid?  I believe that may be 
 some important information, and all I have is ascorbic acid.  This brings 
 into question anyone who might take both EIS AND vitamin C around the same 
 time, it is likely that doing so might convert all the EIS to particulate 
 form in the stomach, which may or may not be good.  I just don't know at this 
 time.  If the sodium form does not convert, then to prevent the conversion in 
 the stomach we maybe should recommend taking that form if taken about the 
 same time as the EIS.
 
 Marshall
 
 Ode Coyote wrote:
 
 
   


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Ode Coyote]

  I've observed 2 different sorts of yellow.
One will be yellow anywhere and anyhow you look at it.
 The other is only yellow when viewed near yellowish things, like wood and 
cardboard, but when taken out into full spectrum sunlight and *looked 
through*, it loses all color...but also tends to pick up a slight green 
tinge if there's grass nearby.
 I suspect metallic silver mirrors of a size that eliminates reflection 
of all but yellow and to a lessor extent, green colors. [but not blue that 
I've ever seen]


Ode



At 10:53 AM 3/12/2010 -0500, you wrote:
Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to 
believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing primarily 
in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still sufficient in 
quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and thus the 
tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.


Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:



Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the
photo?

Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to 
have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the 
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch 
of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of 
ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but 
appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of the 
beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red color, 
which is really only red because the laser light is red.
The actual color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the 
side, but somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.
Viewing on a white background and illuminated from the rear it is more 
bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Dan Nave]

Marshall, this is quite interesting.

Is the effect of adding the ascorbic acid after the EIS is made the
same as the effect of adding the ascorbic acid to the brewing water,
and then brewing up a batch?

It would be an interesting experiment.

Dan


On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com wrote:
 I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a pinch
 of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost
 immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of one and
 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.

 Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf
 /page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are
 reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

 Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Ode Coyote]

Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the photo?

Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to 
have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the Tyndall 
in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch of ascorbic 
acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of ascorbic acid 
added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but 
appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of the 
beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red color, 
which is really only red because the laser light is red.  The actual color 
is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the side, but somewhat 
murky due to the large number of particles.  Viewing on a white background 
and illuminated from the rear it is more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Yes it will, any acid or base will add ions to the water.  I would 
expect the conductivity to go way up.  The TDS is useless if you do 
that, but I am pretty certain that the silver content will be 100% 
particulate, and all the conductivity will be from the acid.


Marshall

poast wrote:

Hello Marshall,

When I add ascorbic acid to distilled water my PWT meter goes off of the
charts.

Does the ascorbic acid add ions to the water, or what am I measuring?

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


  

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to
have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch
of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of
ascorbic acid added.

Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but
appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of the
beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red color,
which is really only red because the laser light is red.  The actual
color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the side, but
somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.  Viewing on a white
background and illuminated from the rear it is more bluish.

http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Very light yellow.  It is more turpid than with color, leading me to 
believe that the particles are very small so they are absorbing 
primarily in the uv region and only lightly in the blue, but still 
sufficient in quantity to cause a good bit of reflection of light and 
thus the tremendous Tyndall.  After two days it is still stable.


Marshall

Ode Coyote wrote:



Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the
photo?

Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had 
to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the 
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a 
pinch of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a 
pinch of ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, 
but appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection 
of the beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a 
red color, which is really only red because the laser light is red.  
The actual color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the 
side, but somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.  
Viewing on a white background and illuminated from the rear it is 
more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Leslie]

Why do we use laser lights? Leslie
- Original Message - 
From: Ode Coyote odecoy...@windstream.net

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS





Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting the 
photo?


Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to 
have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the Tyndall 
in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch of ascorbic 
acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of ascorbic acid 
added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but 
appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of the 
beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red color, 
which is really only red because the laser light is red.  The actual color 
is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the side, but somewhat 
murky due to the large number of particles.  Viewing on a white background 
and illuminated from the rear it is more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

A monochromic columnated beam of light is the most sensitive test for 
Tyndall.


Marshall

Leslie wrote:

Why do we use laser lights? Leslie
- Original Message - From: Ode Coyote 
odecoy...@windstream.net

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS





Marshall


 What color is the converted brew without the laser light affecting 
the photo?


Ode


From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had 
to have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the 
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a 
pinch of ascorbic


acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of 
ascorbic acid



added.

Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, 
but appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the 
reflection of the beam off other particles gives the entire left 
hand glass a red color, which is really only red because the laser 
light is red.  The actual color


is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the side, but 
somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.  Viewing on a 
white background



and illuminated from the rear it is more bluish.

http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall



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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Do you think that would work with sodium ascorbate Marshall?  dee

On 11 Mar 2010, at 05:05, Marshall Dudley wrote:

 I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a pinch 
 of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost 
 immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of one and 
 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.
 
 Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf 
 /page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are 
 reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./
 
 Marshall
 
 


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Richard Goodwin]

Cool!  So I could probably dissolve a vit C tablet in there and it would do the 
same thing.

But ... if the ionic form is more effective for most things, then would you 
want to convert it all to non-ionic particles?

Or would you maybe want to mix the two?  The non-ionic form lasts longer in 
your blood when you drink it, yes?

But does it kill bacteria and viruses and lyme as well?

Dick



- Original Message 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, March 11, 2010 12:05:13 AM
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a pinch of 
ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost immediately 
reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of one and 2 atom each.  
I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf /page 
139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are reduced 
to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Bob Banever]

Why would you want to do that?  It is the ionic portion that has the most 
theraputic benefit.



- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:05 PM
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a 
pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost 
immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of one 
and 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.


Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf 
/page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they 
are reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./


Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[mborgert]

Does make the cs penetrate deeper?
Mary
-- Original message from Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com: --  I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate. If you add a  pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will  almost immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles  of one and 2 atom each. I tried it and it doe seem to work.   Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf  /page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they  are reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./   Marshall--  The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.  Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org   Unsubscribe:   Archives:  http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html   Off-Topic discussions:  List Owner: Mike Devour   

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

It is much less likely to, with sodium ascrobate it must form sodium 
hydroxide which requires energy so that would boil down to whether 
silver or sodium prefer ascorbate.  Ascorbic acid is available in power 
form from health food stores for about $10 a bottle.


Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

Do you think that would work with sodium ascorbate Marshall?  dee

On 11 Mar 2010, at 05:05, Marshall Dudley wrote:

  

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a pinch of 
ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost immediately 
reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of one and 2 atom each.  
I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf /page 
139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are reduced 
to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall






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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

It has thus far, tried it with 15 ppm, gave me a heck of a Tyndall and a 
slight yellow color.


Marshall

Norton, Steve wrote:


Very interesting indeed. I assume the silver remained in suspension? 
The CS manufacturers won't like this. :-)

Nice discovery.

 - Steve N

- Original Message -
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed Mar 10 23:05:13 2010
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a
pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will
almost immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles
of one and 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf
/page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they
are reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Richard Goodwin wrote:

Cool!  So I could probably dissolve a vit C tablet in there and it would do
 the same thing.

  
Not necessarily.  There could be components in it that bind with silver 
more tightly than the loosely bound oxide and hydroxide, and if they 
grab it first it would not reduce.  When other compounds and elements 
are added, all bets are off.


Marshall

But ... if the ionic form is more effective for most things, then would you
 want to convert it all to non-ionic particles?

Or would you maybe want to mix the two?  The non-ionic form lasts longer in
 your blood when you drink it, yes?

But does it kill bacteria and viruses and lyme as well?

Dick



- Original Message 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, March 11, 2010 12:05:13 AM
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a pinch
 of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will almost
 immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of one and 2
 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf
 /page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they are
 reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Well, for one thing, it would allow testing to verify just what the 
therapeutic benefits are for each component.  Being able to completely 
eliminate one component, and get 100% of the other can be of great 
benefit for doing research.  We now have methods to get both 100% ionic 
and 100% colloid.  That is a big help for doing any type of research.


Marshall

Bob Banever wrote:
Why would you want to do that?  It is the ionic portion that has the 
most theraputic benefit.



- Original Message - From: Marshall Dudley 
mdud...@king-cart.com

To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:05 PM
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add 
a pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it 
will almost


immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles of 
one and 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.


Reference: 
http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf /page 
139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they 
are reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./


Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Normally you would expect the ionic to penetrate better, except that 
silver forms a pretty reactive ion, and it will quickly get bound with 
proteins and chlorine in the tissues.  So it may, or it may not.  
Experimenting on things like this were previously expensive since the 
only source for near pure colloidal silver was from Frank Key and that 
was pretty expensive stuff. Now we can make it ourselves.


Marshall

mborg...@att.net wrote:

Does make the cs penetrate deeper?
Mary

-- Original message from Marshall Dudley
mdud...@king-cart.com: --


 I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate. If you
add a
 pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it
will
 almost immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver
particles
 of one and 2 atom each. I tried it and it doe seem to work.

 Reference:
http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf
 /page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic
acid, they
 are reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

 Marshall


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Silver.
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 Unsubscribe:

 Archives:
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 Off-Topic discussions:
 List Owner: Mike Devour

 

Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

It is a marvellous piece of knowledge to have--well done Marshall!  dee

On 11 Mar 2010, at 16:06, Norton, Steve wrote:

 We now have a cheap and easy way to provide 100% particulate CS. Not everyone 
 views EIS as we do. There are health sites that push CS over EIS for internal 
 uses. And of course people have to purchase the CS at fairly high prices vs 
 making their own. I can't say whether the site moderators really believe 
 their claims or if profit is a motive. But now those people who want CS 
 because of what they are told can now be given an inexpensive alternative to 
 get a quality CS,
 
 - Steve N
 


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Marshall Dudley]

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to 
have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the 
Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch 
of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of 
ascorbic acid added.


Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but 
appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of the 
beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red color, 
which is really only red because the laser light is red.  The actual 
color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the side, but 
somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.  Viewing on a white 
background and illuminated from the rear it is more bluish.


http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[nupa_n...@hotmail.com]

I was wondering if there was some one out there that would make me some CS. I 
will pay for the shipping and what ever else you may need to get it to me. I 
just found out I have what is called Amyloidosis. It's incurable and will 
probably die some day of this. I would like to take CS to see if it will help 
this amyloidosis




From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: carcinoma, March 11, 2010 4:28:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to have 
the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the Tyndall in the EIS 
glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch of ascorbic acid added,  
pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of ascorbic acid added.

Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but appears 
yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of the beam off other 
particles gives the entire left hand glass a red color, which is really only 
red because the laser light is red.  The actual color is more of a yellow if 
white light comes in from the side, but somewhat murky due to the large number 
of particles.  Viewing on a white background and illuminated from the rear it 
is more bluish.

http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[poast]

Hello Marshall,

When I add ascorbic acid to distilled water my PWT meter goes off of the
charts.

Does the ascorbic acid add ions to the water, or what am I measuring?

Tom


- Original Message - 
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS


 Here is a link with a picture I just made. It's not very good, I had to
 have the room pretty dark with no flash to even see a hint of the
 Tyndall in the EIS glass.  From left to right, 15 ppm EIS with a pinch
 of ascorbic acid added,  pure15 ppm EIS, distilled water with a pinch of
 ascorbic acid added.

 Note that the colors are not true. The laser beam is actually red, but
 appears yellow because it is so overexposed.  Then the reflection of the
 beam off other particles gives the entire left hand glass a red color,
 which is really only red because the laser light is red.  The actual
 color is more of a yellow if white light comes in from the side, but
 somewhat murky due to the large number of particles.  Viewing on a white
 background and illuminated from the rear it is more bluish.

 http://silver-lightning.com/ascorbic-cs.jpg

 Marshall


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Re: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

[Norton, Steve]

Very interesting indeed. I assume the silver remained in suspension? The CS 
manufacturers won't like this. :-)
Nice discovery. 

 - Steve N

- Original Message -
From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@king-cart.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed Mar 10 23:05:13 2010
Subject: CSMaking 100% colloidal EIS

I think I have a way to convert EIS to 100% particulate.  If you add a 
pinch of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) powder to a glass of EIS, it will 
almost immediately reduce the silver oxide/hydroxide to silver particles 
of one and 2 atom each.  I tried it and it doe seem to work.

Reference: http:www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2004/fpl_2004_dorau001.pdf 
/page 139 last sentence: :When silver ions encounter ascorbic acid, they 
are reduced to metallic silver nanoparticles./

Marshall


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