Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

At 05:32 PM 1/10/2010, you wrote:

Sol:

Do you really think the aluminum is safe?


  Yes, I don't worry about aluminum.
sol


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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Annie B Smythe]

Aluminum is excreted via the kidneys. Aluminum 
becomes a problem when the water is fluoridated or 
if you take prescription meds with fluoride in 
them, and there are many meds with fluoride in 
them. Fluoride picks up aluminum and carries it 
past the blood brain barrier into the brain. 
Although aluminum may put a heavier load on the 
kidneys, excretion depends on the individual, 
their health status and kidney function. Cooking 
with aluminum should not be too bad as long as 
there are no other chemicals in the cooking water 
that cause aluminum to be retained in the body. 
India may not be as fluoridated as we are.


There is also the fact that the majority foods in 
the US contain fluoride in varying amounts, 
including coffee and tea. Any food grown that has 
been watered with fluoridated water or processed 
with fluoridated water has fluoride in varying 
amounts. The USDA site has a list of foods with 
aluminum content in them. And every food sold is 
not listed, otherwise it would probably be 
thousands of pages long, but it gives you a 
general idea of the fluoride content of food.



So while the people in India may be safer using 
aluminum cookware, I am personally not comfortable 
using it.



Annie

If we could sell our experiences for what they
cost us, we'd all be millionaires.
Abigail Van Buren

John E. Stevens wrote:

Sol:

Do you really think the aluminum is safe?

John

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 5:00 PM, sol > wrote:


At 08:10 AM 1/10/2010, you wrote:

It seems af if most Indians cook in aluminum pans and the rest in
stainless steel.

They are touted as having an extremely low rate of Alzheimer's
disease...

Dan,
 Funny you should mention. When I had to get rid of all my stainless
steel cookware, that included my pressure cooker.
The aluminum pressure cooker that replaced it is made in India.
sol

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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Sol:

Do you really think the aluminum is safe?

John

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 5:00 PM, sol  wrote:

> At 08:10 AM 1/10/2010, you wrote:
>
>> It seems af if most Indians cook in aluminum pans and the rest in
>> stainless steel.
>>
>> They are touted as having an extremely low rate of Alzheimer's disease...
>>
> Dan,
>  Funny you should mention. When I had to get rid of all my stainless steel
> cookware, that included my pressure cooker.
> The aluminum pressure cooker that replaced it is made in India.
> sol
>
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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

At 08:10 AM 1/10/2010, you wrote:

It seems af if most Indians cook in aluminum pans and the rest in
stainless steel.

They are touted as having an extremely low rate of Alzheimer's disease...

Dan,
  Funny you should mention. When I had to get rid of all my 
stainless steel cookware, that included my pressure cooker.

The aluminum pressure cooker that replaced it is made in India.
sol 



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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[slickpicker]

Same here.  After some initial reading a few years ago about the evils of 
teflon, stainless steel, and aluminum, I bought a set of Vision Ware on eBay.  
Then I read about the evils of Vision Ware.  Enough is enough...now I use 
whatever's handy (no peeling teflon, of course).

Terry

 "M. G. Devour"  wrote: 

=
John writes:

> I'm beginning to wonder if there is any safe cooking pots or
> cooking ware?

That's about where I got to, John. I read up on a bunch of stuff, at 
least superficially, and didn't find one that wasn't accused of doing 
*something* bad to you.

In the grand scheme of things, though, there's so much worse things to 
correct in my diet and environment that cookware caused contamination 
is not a high priority for me right now. So I've... ahem... put it on 
the back burner for a while.

 ... couldn't resist...

Peace,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[zzekelink]

 
In a message dated 1/10/2010 10:11:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
bhangcha...@gmail.com writes:

So  I've... ahem... put it on
> the back burner for a  while.



Oh Mike, that was a good one !! Brought a smile to me  this morning after 9 
degree snowy walk in the woods with the pups.Lois

Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dan Nave]

It seems af if most Indians cook in aluminum pans and the rest in
stainless steel.

They are touted as having an extremely low rate of Alzheimer's disease...

Dan

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 10:14 PM, M. G. Devour  wrote:
> John writes:
>
>> I'm beginning to wonder if there is any safe cooking pots or
>> cooking ware?
>
> That's about where I got to, John. I read up on a bunch of stuff, at
> least superficially, and didn't find one that wasn't accused of doing
> *something* bad to you.
>
> In the grand scheme of things, though, there's so much worse things to
> correct in my diet and environment that cookware caused contamination
> is not a high priority for me right now. So I've... ahem... put it on
> the back burner for a while.
>
>  ... couldn't resist...
>
> Peace,
>
> Mike D.
>
> [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
> [mdev...@eskimo.com                        ]
> [Speaking only for myself...               ]
>
>
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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Hi, Mike:

Ahhh...  Another Libertarian.  Thank God for that.  Good points, Mike.
There isn't much we can control in the environment which is being
continually polluted with newer and better and more convenient technology
(which can be very harmful)  It's one reason I moved further into the
country and am considering moving even further out in the country to avoid
toxic air pollution - if it's possible at all.  Diet wise - i grow an
organic garden every summer and can in glass for winter.  I'm also 90 - 95%
organic eating-wise and have supplemented daily for 35 years.  What other
choices do we have if we wish to remain comfortable in our bodies for any
decent length of time?  I think my biggest sin is that I enjoy a good
Dominican cigar, daily...

John

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 11:14 PM, M. G. Devour  wrote:

> John writes:
>
> > I'm beginning to wonder if there is any safe cooking pots or
> > cooking ware?
>
> That's about where I got to, John. I read up on a bunch of stuff, at
> least superficially, and didn't find one that wasn't accused of doing
> *something* bad to you.
>
> In the grand scheme of things, though, there's so much worse things to
> correct in my diet and environment that cookware caused contamination
> is not a high priority for me right now. So I've... ahem... put it on
> the back burner for a while.
>
>  ... couldn't resist...
>
> Peace,
>
> Mike D.
>
> [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
> [mdev...@eskimo.com]
> [Speaking only for myself...   ]
>
>
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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[M. G. Devour]

John writes:

> I'm beginning to wonder if there is any safe cooking pots or
> cooking ware?

That's about where I got to, John. I read up on a bunch of stuff, at 
least superficially, and didn't find one that wasn't accused of doing 
*something* bad to you.

In the grand scheme of things, though, there's so much worse things to 
correct in my diet and environment that cookware caused contamination 
is not a high priority for me right now. So I've... ahem... put it on 
the back burner for a while.

 ... couldn't resist...

Peace,

Mike D.

[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

At 07:12 AM 1/9/2010, you wrote:

Sol:

I read the link on Vision Ware.  I'm going to write Corning and get 
more info.  Who wrote the info about Corning at Mothering - there is 
no reference?  I'm beginning to wonder if there is any safe cooking 
pots or cooking ware?  Seems there are drawbacks to most.


No idea, I did say no references were given.
I figure we do do the best we can taking into consideration personal 
financial situations and any personal health issues that absolutely 
rule out certain types of cookware.

sol


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

At 04:24 AM 1/9/2010, you wrote:
Would it have been a Mercola article because I seem to remember this 
also - and being surprised too.  dee

Indeed I think that could have been the source.
sol 



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Re: vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Sol:

I read the link on Vision Ware.  I'm going to write Corning and get more
info.  Who wrote the info about Corning at Mothering - there is no
reference?  I'm beginning to wonder if there is any safe cooking pots or
cooking ware?  Seems there are drawbacks to most.  Whitaker and Mercola are
pushing their brands, too, as safe, but I'll wait for more objective third
party tests.
I gave up my glass top stove about ten years ago and went to natural gas
when they finally piped natural gas into the "outback" country where I live.
i know from studying ceramics and pottery years ago that there is lead in
certain ceramic glazes - so I avoid most ceramic plates and bowels. I don't
use plastic to store anything - only glass.   I have a set of German dishes
- I'll send you the name later - that I feel are safe, but can't prove.  It
gets more complicated as we go along here.

John

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:50 PM, sol  wrote:

>
> I've been trying to find info on vision ware re my memory of it being a
> problem, and didn't find anything about lead, but did find this:
>
>> While anodized aluminum pots are not reactive, manufacturing them is toxic
>> to the environment, so I can't endorse them. In the anodizing process, the
>> etch reacts with aluminum and the resulting highly caustic outgas is vented
>> into the atmosphere. Neither do I recommend CorningWare or VisionWare
>> because these products contain synthetic polymers.
>>
> the quote is from
> http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=32482 it gives no
> references nor test results.
> I had no idea that anodizing aluminum was a toxic process when I purchased
> mine a few years ago, and I have  not researched the issue.
> sol
>
>
>
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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Mercola sells his own cook ware...  Interesting  seems like everything's
bad to competitors...  I don't see how Vision ware could leech lead...

On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

> Would it have been a Mercola article because I seem to remember this also -
> and being surprised too.  dee
>
> On 8 Jan 2010, at 23:13, sol wrote:
>
> > At 02:11 PM 1/8/2010, you wrote:
> >> Sol:
> >>
> >> I'd be interested in where you read that Vision Ware leeches lead if you
> can recall.  Hmmmnnn.  i had always thought it was one of the best.
> >
> > Yes, I've heard it is one of the best also. I cannot substantiate my
> memory re lead and visionware, could not begin to remember where I read it.
> It is also always possible my memory is faulty, and the lead leaching may
>  have pertained to other types of cookware, possibly porcelain-enamel coated
> cast iron?
> > Sorry for any confusion.
> > sol
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Would it have been a Mercola article because I seem to remember this also - and 
being surprised too.  dee

On 8 Jan 2010, at 23:13, sol wrote:

> At 02:11 PM 1/8/2010, you wrote:
>> Sol:
>> 
>> I'd be interested in where you read that Vision Ware leeches lead if you can 
>> recall.  Hmmmnnn.  i had always thought it was one of the best.
> 
> Yes, I've heard it is one of the best also. I cannot substantiate my memory 
> re lead and visionware, could not begin to remember where I read it. It is 
> also always possible my memory is faulty, and the lead leaching may  have 
> pertained to other types of cookware, possibly porcelain-enamel coated cast 
> iron?
> Sorry for any confusion.
> sol
> 
> 


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vision ware, was Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

I've been trying to find info on vision ware re my memory of it being 
a problem, and didn't find anything about lead, but did find this:
While anodized aluminum pots are not reactive, manufacturing them is 
toxic to the environment, so I can't endorse them. In the anodizing 
process, the etch reacts with aluminum and the resulting highly 
caustic outgas is vented into the atmosphere. Neither do I recommend 
CorningWare or VisionWare because these products contain synthetic polymers.
the quote is from 
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=32482 it gives 
no references nor test results.
I had no idea that anodizing aluminum was a toxic process when I 
purchased mine a few years ago, and I have  not researched the issue.

sol



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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

At 02:11 PM 1/8/2010, you wrote:

Sol:

I'd be interested in where you read that Vision Ware leeches lead if 
you can recall.  Hmmmnnn.  i had always thought it was one of the best.


Yes, I've heard it is one of the best also. I cannot substantiate my 
memory re lead and visionware, could not begin to remember where I 
read it. It is also always possible my memory is faulty, and the lead 
leaching may  have pertained to other types of cookware, possibly 
porcelain-enamel coated cast iron?

Sorry for any confusion.
sol


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Sol:

I'd be interested in where you read that Vision Ware leeches lead if you can
recall.  Hmmmnnn.  i had always thought it was one of the best.

John

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 3:39 PM, sol  wrote:

> At 08:55 AM 1/8/2010, you wrote:
>
>   Glass stove top Vision ware is one of the best.
>>
>
> I have read but can't recall where, that vision ware leaches lead.
>
>   i don't use iron frying pans or dutch ovens (even though I have some)
>> because iron can leach into the food and that is not something any man wants
>> because an overload of iron can affect the heart of men in negative ways -
>> even bringing on a heart attack.  I give blood every 56 days to get rid of
>> any excess iron.  And it gives my spleen an excuse to make some fresh...
>>  That may sound selfish, but the Red Cross loves my blood - and they always
>> need a good supply.  So do the vampires  ha...  ha ha
>>
>
> Same here, I got rid of all my cast iron when I found out I had too much
> iron (ferritin). And I can't use SS because it leaches nickel. My dermatitis
> got a lot better when I got rid of all of the non-magnetic SS in the house.
> A strange thing to my mind is that I donated blood too often, taking my
> ferritin down too low, but my hematocrit and hemoglobin stayed at just under
> top of range. But it proved to me that I do load iron fast, because the
> ferritin is going up very quickly.
> sol
>
>
>
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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

At 08:55 AM 1/8/2010, you wrote:


 Glass stove top Vision ware is one of the best.


I have read but can't recall where, that vision ware leaches lead.

 i don't use iron frying pans or dutch ovens (even though I have 
some) because iron can leach into the food and that is not 
something any man wants because an overload of iron can affect the 
heart of men in negative ways - even bringing on a heart attack.  I 
give blood every 56 days to get rid of any excess iron.  And it 
gives my spleen an excuse to make some fresh...  That may sound 
selfish, but the Red Cross loves my blood - and they always need a 
good supply.  So do the vampires  ha...  ha ha


Same here, I got rid of all my cast iron when I found out I had too 
much iron (ferritin). And I can't use SS because it leaches nickel. 
My dermatitis got a lot better when I got rid of all of the 
non-magnetic SS in the house. A strange thing to my mind is that I 
donated blood too often, taking my ferritin down too low, but my 
hematocrit and hemoglobin stayed at just under top of range. But it 
proved to me that I do load iron fast, because the ferritin is going 
up very quickly.

sol



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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

John E. Stevens wrote:

Dear Peace:

Thank you kindly, Peace.  I was getting bombarded by those that seem 
to know it all regarding aluminum and I appreciate you entering the 
fray with some positive ideas and "real" testing principles.  Thanks, 
again. 


As for the use of Teflon that Marshall seems to support,



I didn't support, although I did post the information/text from a 
website that did.


Marshall


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Dear Peace:

Thank you kindly, Peace.  I was getting bombarded by those that seem to know
it all regarding aluminum and I appreciate you entering the fray with some
positive ideas and "real" testing principles.  Thanks, again.

As for the use of Teflon that Marshall seems to support, I wouldn't use it
to cook anything in to feed my animals let alone any humans.  And non-stick
surfaces - a BIG no to those, too.  Glass stove top Vision ware is one of
the best.  i don't use iron frying pans or dutch ovens (even though I have
some) because iron can leach into the food and that is not something any man
wants because an overload of iron can affect the heart of men in negative
ways - even bringing on a heart attack.  I give blood every 56 days to get
rid of any excess iron.  And it gives my spleen an excuse to make some
fresh...  That may sound selfish, but the Red Cross loves my blood - and
they always need a good supply.  So do the vampires  ha...  ha
ha

John

On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

> In that case Mike, you would have to do the same with the brands which John
> believes are contaminant free also!  After all, it is only their word that
> he is going on too, isn't it ?  dee
>
> On 7 Jan 2010, at 16:19, M. G. Devour wrote:
>
> > Dee writes:
> >> But in this case Annie, Marshall *has* tested it scientifically and it
> >> came up negative, which is as much proof as anyone could need surely?
> >
> > Well, not quite, Dee! 
> >
> > Marshall, what mode of testing are you using? It seems to be quite
> > specific as to compound, and you need to know what you're testing for
> > in advance. Why? Thanks very much for doing it.
> >
> > In fairness, all we know from Marshall's testing is that the two most
> > common or likely sources of aluminum contamination from processing
> > equipment -- metal and oxide -- are absent at least to the sensitivity
> > limits of his measurement..
> >
> > So, until somebody comes up with a specific chemical species for
> > Marshall to test for, or else takes a sample of Arm & Hammer baking
> > soda to their local environmental testing lab and asks for an atomic
> > absorption spectroscopy analyisis for elemental aluminum, we'll have to
> > leave this in the 'asserted but unproven' category. Neither
> > contamination nor purity has been demonstrated beyond doubt.
> >
> > And that is the essence of a successful marketing campaign. 
> >
> > Thanks for your patience, John.
> >
> > Peace,
> >
>
>
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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

In that case Mike, you would have to do the same with the brands which John 
believes are contaminant free also!  After all, it is only their word that he 
is going on too, isn't it ?  dee

On 7 Jan 2010, at 16:19, M. G. Devour wrote:

> Dee writes:
>> But in this case Annie, Marshall *has* tested it scientifically and it
>> came up negative, which is as much proof as anyone could need surely?
> 
> Well, not quite, Dee! 
> 
> Marshall, what mode of testing are you using? It seems to be quite 
> specific as to compound, and you need to know what you're testing for 
> in advance. Why? Thanks very much for doing it.
> 
> In fairness, all we know from Marshall's testing is that the two most 
> common or likely sources of aluminum contamination from processing 
> equipment -- metal and oxide -- are absent at least to the sensitivity 
> limits of his measurement..
> 
> So, until somebody comes up with a specific chemical species for 
> Marshall to test for, or else takes a sample of Arm & Hammer baking 
> soda to their local environmental testing lab and asks for an atomic 
> absorption spectroscopy analyisis for elemental aluminum, we'll have to 
> leave this in the 'asserted but unproven' category. Neither 
> contamination nor purity has been demonstrated beyond doubt.
> 
> And that is the essence of a successful marketing campaign. 
> 
> Thanks for your patience, John.
> 
> Peace,
> 


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[M. G. Devour]

Dear Dan,

You write:
> Saying "You're full of crap about this one" is not an ad hominem
> attack.  It equivalent to saying "You are absolutely mistaken about this
> one"...  It is not saying that 'I don't believe you because you're full
> of crap.'  Admittedly, it is somewhat rude, but not outside of normal
> usage - in some circles.

I suppose, technically, it isn't ad hominem, merely rude. Point for 
you. 

It certainly serves the purpose of lowering the focus of the discussion 
from the topic at hand to personalities and egos, however, wouldn't you 
say?  

> The comment about me working for Arm and Hammer as a paid shill,
> implying that I only take that position because I'm a supposed paid
> shill, *is* an ad hominim attack.

Agreed. If one felt mischeivious, one could ask John if *he* holds 
stock in that other brand of baking soda... But I presume he doesn't 
and I won't. 

> So, I would have to say that you are half right, and that you are half
> full of crap about that one...  (This is a joke, by the way... ;-))

Hey, I'm always at risk of making a mistake in this job... That's why 
they pay me th big bucks! 

Mike D.
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dan Nave]

Mike,

I have to take exception to your remark.

Saying "You're full of crap about this one" is not an ad hominem
attack.  It equivalent to saying "You are absolutely mistaken about
this one"...  It is not saying that 'I don't believe you because
you're full of crap.'  Admittedly, it is somewhat rude, but not
outside of normal usage - in some circles.

The comment about me working for Arm and Hammer as a paid shill,
implying that I only take that position because I'm a supposed paid
shill, *is* an ad hominim attack.

So, I would have to say that you are half right, and that you are half
full of crap about that one...  (This is a joke, by the way... ;-))

Dan


On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:43 AM, M. G. Devour  wrote:
>
> Meanwhile, ad hominem attacks, whether of the "you're full of crap" or
> "you're a paid shill" variety, are sufficient to endanger participation
> in the group for those making them. Please refrain, folks.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mike D.
> [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
> [mdev...@eskimo.com                        ]
> [Speaking only for myself...               ]
>


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

M. G. Devour wrote:

Dee writes:
  

But in this case Annie, Marshall *has* tested it scientifically and it
came up negative, which is as much proof as anyone could need surely?



Well, not quite, Dee! 

Marshall, what mode of testing are you using? 
Well the test for elemental aluminum and aluminum is really quit easy 
since both are completely insoluble in water. You could simply dissolve 
it in water and see if there is anything insoluble left, but since it 
only has a solubility of 69 grams per liter, and the solution is 
slightly cloudy, I mixed it with acetic acid to produce sodium citrate 
which has a solubility 720 grams per liter and is crystal clear when 
dissolved.  This makes it easy to dissolve a large amount and easy to 
see if there is ANY precipitate either on the bottom or in suspension 
since neither aluminum oxide will react with citric acid. That is how I 
tested it.


Marshall


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[M. G. Devour]

Dee writes:
> But in this case Annie, Marshall *has* tested it scientifically and it
> came up negative, which is as much proof as anyone could need surely?

Well, not quite, Dee! 

Marshall, what mode of testing are you using? It seems to be quite 
specific as to compound, and you need to know what you're testing for 
in advance. Why? Thanks very much for doing it.

In fairness, all we know from Marshall's testing is that the two most 
common or likely sources of aluminum contamination from processing 
equipment -- metal and oxide -- are absent at least to the sensitivity 
limits of his measurement..

So, until somebody comes up with a specific chemical species for 
Marshall to test for, or else takes a sample of Arm & Hammer baking 
soda to their local environmental testing lab and asks for an atomic 
absorption spectroscopy analyisis for elemental aluminum, we'll have to 
leave this in the 'asserted but unproven' category. Neither 
contamination nor purity has been demonstrated beyond doubt.

And that is the essence of a successful marketing campaign. 

Thanks for your patience, John.

Peace,

Mike D.
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[cking001]

Uhh...
no, John,
You have listed no references.
Nothing anyone can verify.

Buy what you want, but I am unconvinced.

Chuck
In a Veterinarian's waiting room:
  "Be back in 5 minutes. Sit! Stay!"


On 1/7/2010 8:13:41 AM, John E. Stevens (jonellis.steven...@gmail.com)
wrote:
> Dee:
> 
> When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in the
> natural health world, why would anyone take a chance with a product that
> may have aluminum in it?  Free of aluminum sodium bicarbonate is available
> at inexpensive prices.  I cross reference everything that comes to me
> through natural health newsletters over the years and it has been mention
> many more times than once that A & H has aluminum in it.  I stand by the
> premise:  Take no chances.  Buyer beware.  Be very aware...
> 
> John
>


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Annie B Smythe]

Yep, the fact that Marshall tested it, and it 
showed no aluminum content is enough for me:)


Annie
If we could sell our experiences for what they
cost us, we'd all be millionaires.
Abigail Van Buren

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

But in this case Annie, Marshall *has* tested it scientifically and it came up 
negative, which is as much proof as anyone could need surely? dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 19:00, Annie B Smythe wrote:



I've seen this same debate elsewhere, and no one could come up with any proof, 
just she said, he said, they said, I heard. *Shrug* I'd be more concerned about 
the baking powder myself. And if anyone would know for sure, I would think it 
would be Brooks, and he definitely would tell us what baking soda NOT to use.

Annie



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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

But in this case Annie, Marshall *has* tested it scientifically and it came up 
negative, which is as much proof as anyone could need surely? dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 19:00, Annie B Smythe wrote:

> I've seen this same debate elsewhere, and no one could come up with any 
> proof, just she said, he said, they said, I heard. *Shrug* I'd be more 
> concerned about the baking powder myself. And if anyone would know for sure, 
> I would think it would be Brooks, and he definitely would tell us what baking 
> soda NOT to use.
> 
> Annie


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Annie B Smythe]

I've seen this same debate elsewhere, and no one 
could come up with any proof, just she said, he 
said, they said, I heard. *Shrug* I'd be more 
concerned about the baking powder myself. And if 
anyone would know for sure, I would think it would 
be Brooks, and he definitely would tell us what 
baking soda NOT to use.


Annie
If we could sell our experiences for what they
cost us, we'd all be millionaires.
Abigail Van Buren

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

Well thats good enough for me Marshall.  I believe in being  fair minded and 
not believing everything negative until it is proved  i.e. hearsay.  After all, 
if I had done this when I read about CS then I would never have used it and 
would have missed out on a marvellous product.  Thank you for taking the 
trouble to resolve this debate scientifically.  dee


On 7 Jan 2010, at 15:42, Marshall Dudley wrote:


As I stated earlier, I tested a&H for the to possible forms of aluminum from 
machinery, and they were negative.  There is no detectable aluminum metal or 
aluminum oxide in it.

Marshall




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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

Well thats good enough for me Marshall.  I believe in being  fair minded and 
not believing everything negative until it is proved  i.e. hearsay.  After all, 
if I had done this when I read about CS then I would never have used it and 
would have missed out on a marvellous product.  Thank you for taking the 
trouble to resolve this debate scientifically.  dee


On 7 Jan 2010, at 15:42, Marshall Dudley wrote:

> As I stated earlier, I tested a&H for the to possible forms of aluminum from 
> machinery, and they were negative.  There is no detectable aluminum metal or 
> aluminum oxide in it.
> 
> Marshall
> 


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

I can analyze it for whichever compound of aluminum is said to be in 
there. Those saying it is in there are unable to say which compound it 
is, so it sounds to me like a smear campaign, if they really know it is 
in there, they would know what form it is in.  I have tested for the two 
most likely forms, the forms that would be there as a contaminate, and 
they both tested negative.


Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:

But then, A&H say there *isn't* any in their product either, so how do you 
differentiate?  How can you possibly know that one is being truthful and one isn't? 
 I hope Marshall is able to analyse the product just to see if it is correct.  dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 13:13, John E. Stevens wrote:


  

Dee:

When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in the natural 
health world, why would anyone take a chance with a product that may have aluminum 
in it?  Free of aluminum sodium bicarbonate is available at inexpensive prices.  I 
cross reference everything that comes to me through natural health newsletters over 
the years and it has been mention many more times than once that A & H has 
aluminum in it.  I stand by the premise:  Take no chances.  Buyer beware.  Be very 
aware...

John





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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

If you are wanting to completely eliminate aluminum from your diet you 
need to be looking at foods that actually contain significant amounts of 
aluminum, an not ASP chemical products which can contain at most a trace 
of aluminum contamination which is true of ANYTHING you eat..  See 
http://home.earthlink.net/~joannefstruve/_wsn/page2.html for such foods:


*Microwave popcorn
Salted snacks
Hot cocoa mixes
Coffee creamers
Pickles and relish
*Flour tortillas
*Pizza crust
*Muffins
*Doughnuts
*Cookies
*Pancakes
*Waffles
*Cupcakes
*Cakes
*Baking mixes
*Brownies
*Pastries
*Corn bread
*Banana bread
*Carrot bread
*Dipping batter for fried foods


**WARNING: Aluminumized baking powder is now being used in many foods 
that were formerly prepared without baking powder, such as pizza crust, 
raised doughnuts, pie crusts, cookies, waffles, prepared meats, cheeses, 
and other products that were once aluminum-free.


IMPORTANT:

Do not confuse baking soda with baking powder. Soda is a pure product 
with no additives. Baking powder is a mixture of chemicals used as 
leavening in countless baking products. *


John E. Stevens wrote:

Dee:

When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in 
the natural health world, why would anyone take a chance with a 
product that may have aluminum in it?  Free of aluminum sodium 
bicarbonate is available at inexpensive prices.  I cross reference 
everything that comes to me through natural health newsletters over 
the years and it has been mention many more times than once that A & H 
has aluminum in it.  I stand by the premise:  Take no chances.  Buyer 
beware.  Be very aware...


John

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick > wrote:


It sounds to me as though it could have been a smear campaign, and
who knows if *other* manufacturers use aluminium bins or grinding
tools either?  Do they state this in their blurb?  To be
objective, one must apply all criteria to all interested parties,
I believe.  dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 00:10, John E. Stevens wrote:



Mike;

i don't have inevitable proof, only what I've read from various
sources over the years.  From what I understand and recall, the
aluminum somehow gets into the sodium bicarbonate in the
processing stages.  I don't know if A & H use aluminum bins,
aluminum grinding tools, or what, but from what I've read in the
past it's been stated that A & H has aluminum in it.  I'm sure it
may only be small amounts that enter from the processing stage,
but, personally, I want no aluminum entering my body in any
fashion.  I've read this in the past over a number of years from
various sources which is why I seek only pure sodium bicarbonate
from drclark.net  and drclark.com
.  You may find some info about it in Dr.
Clark's books - if I recall correctly.  Dr. Simoncini, of Italy,
who uses sodium bicarbonate to treat various kinds of cancer, may
also have some info on it.  I cannot recall all of my sources
because I read so many health newsletters and references daily,
monthly and over the course of many years, but from my reading,
and recollection, I just won't use A & H Sodium Bicarbonate. 
There are sources of pure sodium bicarbonate available so I

choose to use those. I wish I could elaborate more thoroughly for
you, but I can't.

John







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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

As I stated earlier, I tested a&H for the to possible forms of aluminum 
from machinery, and they were negative.  There is no detectable aluminum 
metal or aluminum oxide in it.


Marshall

Dorothy Fitzpatrick wrote:
It sounds to me as though it could have been a smear campaign, and who 
knows if *other* manufacturers use aluminium bins or grinding tools 
either?  Do they state this in their blurb?  To be objective, one must 
apply all criteria to all interested parties, I believe.  dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 00:10, John E. Stevens wrote:





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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Too much so.  I'm out...

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Norton, Steve wrote:

>  Haven't we beaten this to death yet?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
> To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
> Sent: Thu Jan 07 07:43:54 2010
> Subject: Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate
>
> But then, A&H say there *isn't* any in their product either, so how do you
> differentiate?  How can you possibly know that one is being truthful and one
> isn't?  I hope Marshall is able to analyse the product just to see if it is
> correct.  dee
>
> On 7 Jan 2010, at 13:13, John E. Stevens wrote:
>
> > Dee:
> >
> > When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in
> the natural health world, why would anyone take a chance with a product that
> may have aluminum in it?  Free of aluminum sodium bicarbonate is available
> at inexpensive prices.  I cross reference everything that comes to me
> through natural health newsletters over the years and it has been mention
> many more times than once that A & H has aluminum in it.  I stand by the
> premise:  Take no chances.  Buyer beware.  Be very aware...
> >
> > John
> >
>
>
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>
>
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

This debate could go on forever.  I'm dropping out.  Believe what you
wish...

John

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:43 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

> But then, A&H say there *isn't* any in their product either, so how do you
> differentiate?  How can you possibly know that one is being truthful and one
> isn't?  I hope Marshall is able to analyse the product just to see if it is
> correct.  dee
>
> On 7 Jan 2010, at 13:13, John E. Stevens wrote:
>
> > Dee:
> >
> > When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in
> the natural health world, why would anyone take a chance with a product that
> may have aluminum in it?  Free of aluminum sodium bicarbonate is available
> at inexpensive prices.  I cross reference everything that comes to me
> through natural health newsletters over the years and it has been mention
> many more times than once that A & H has aluminum in it.  I stand by the
> premise:  Take no chances.  Buyer beware.  Be very aware...
> >
> > John
> >
>
>
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>
>
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Norton, Steve]

Haven't we beaten this to death yet? 

- Original Message -
From: Dorothy Fitzpatrick 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thu Jan 07 07:43:54 2010
Subject: Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

But then, A&H say there *isn't* any in their product either, so how do you 
differentiate?  How can you possibly know that one is being truthful and one 
isn't?  I hope Marshall is able to analyse the product just to see if it is 
correct.  dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 13:13, John E. Stevens wrote:

> Dee:
> 
> When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in the 
> natural health world, why would anyone take a chance with a product that may 
> have aluminum in it?  Free of aluminum sodium bicarbonate is available at 
> inexpensive prices.  I cross reference everything that comes to me through 
> natural health newsletters over the years and it has been mention many more 
> times than once that A & H has aluminum in it.  I stand by the premise:  Take 
> no chances.  Buyer beware.  Be very aware...
> 
> John
> 


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

But then, A&H say there *isn't* any in their product either, so how do you 
differentiate?  How can you possibly know that one is being truthful and one 
isn't?  I hope Marshall is able to analyse the product just to see if it is 
correct.  dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 13:13, John E. Stevens wrote:

> Dee:
> 
> When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in the 
> natural health world, why would anyone take a chance with a product that may 
> have aluminum in it?  Free of aluminum sodium bicarbonate is available at 
> inexpensive prices.  I cross reference everything that comes to me through 
> natural health newsletters over the years and it has been mention many more 
> times than once that A & H has aluminum in it.  I stand by the premise:  Take 
> no chances.  Buyer beware.  Be very aware...
> 
> John
> 


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Dee:

When there is guaranteed aluminum free sodium bicarbonate out there in the
natural health world, why would anyone take a chance with a product that may
have aluminum in it?  Free of aluminum sodium bicarbonate is available at
inexpensive prices.  I cross reference everything that comes to me through
natural health newsletters over the years and it has been mention many more
times than once that A & H has aluminum in it.  I stand by the premise:
Take no chances.  Buyer beware.  Be very aware...

John

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Dorothy Fitzpatrick  wrote:

> It sounds to me as though it could have been a smear campaign, and who
> knows if *other* manufacturers use aluminium bins or grinding tools either?
>  Do they state this in their blurb?  To be objective, one must apply all
> criteria to all interested parties, I believe.  dee
>
> On 7 Jan 2010, at 00:10, John E. Stevens wrote:
>
> Mike;
>
> i don't have inevitable proof, only what I've read from various sources
> over the years.  From what I understand and recall, the aluminum somehow
> gets into the sodium bicarbonate in the processing stages.  I don't know if
> A & H use aluminum bins, aluminum grinding tools, or what, but from what
> I've read in the past it's been stated that A & H has aluminum in it.  I'm
> sure it may only be small amounts that enter from the processing stage, but,
> personally, I want no aluminum entering my body in any fashion.  I've read
> this in the past over a number of years from various sources which is why I
> seek only pure sodium bicarbonate from drclark.net and drclark.com.  You
> may find some info about it in Dr. Clark's books - if I recall correctly.
> Dr. Simoncini, of Italy, who uses sodium bicarbonate to treat various kinds
> of cancer, may also have some info on it.  I cannot recall all of my sources
> because I read so many health newsletters and references daily, monthly and
> over the course of many years, but from my reading, and recollection, I just
> won't use A & H Sodium Bicarbonate.  There are sources of pure sodium
> bicarbonate available so I choose to use those. I wish I could elaborate
> more thoroughly for you, but I can't.
>
> John
>
>
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dorothy Fitzpatrick]

It sounds to me as though it could have been a smear campaign, and who knows if 
*other* manufacturers use aluminium bins or grinding tools either?  Do they 
state this in their blurb?  To be objective, one must apply all criteria to all 
interested parties, I believe.  dee
 
On 7 Jan 2010, at 00:10, John E. Stevens wrote:

> Mike;
> 
> i don't have inevitable proof, only what I've read from various sources over 
> the years.  From what I understand and recall, the aluminum somehow gets into 
> the sodium bicarbonate in the processing stages.  I don't know if A & H use 
> aluminum bins, aluminum grinding tools, or what, but from what I've read in 
> the past it's been stated that A & H has aluminum in it.  I'm sure it may 
> only be small amounts that enter from the processing stage, but, personally, 
> I want no aluminum entering my body in any fashion.  I've read this in the 
> past over a number of years from various sources which is why I seek only 
> pure sodium bicarbonate from drclark.net and drclark.com.  You may find some 
> info about it in Dr. Clark's books - if I recall correctly.  Dr. Simoncini, 
> of Italy, who uses sodium bicarbonate to treat various kinds of cancer, may 
> also have some info on it.  I cannot recall all of my sources because I read 
> so many health newsletters and references daily, monthly and over the course 
> of many years, but from my reading, and recollection, I just won't use A & H 
> Sodium Bicarbonate.  There are sources of pure sodium bicarbonate available 
> so I choose to use those. I wish I could elaborate more thoroughly for you, 
> but I can't.
> 
> John
> 

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Mike;

i don't have inevitable proof, only what I've read from various sources over
the years.  From what I understand and recall, the aluminum somehow gets
into the sodium bicarbonate in the processing stages.  I don't know if A & H
use aluminum bins, aluminum grinding tools, or what, but from what I've read
in the past it's been stated that A & H has aluminum in it.  I'm sure it may
only be small amounts that enter from the processing stage, but, personally,
I want no aluminum entering my body in any fashion.  I've read this in the
past over a number of years from various sources which is why I seek only
pure sodium bicarbonate from drclark.net and drclark.com.  You may find some
info about it in Dr. Clark's books - if I recall correctly.  Dr. Simoncini,
of Italy, who uses sodium bicarbonate to treat various kinds of cancer, may
also have some info on it.  I cannot recall all of my sources because I read
so many health newsletters and references daily, monthly and over the course
of many years, but from my reading, and recollection, I just won't use A & H
Sodium Bicarbonate.  There are sources of pure sodium bicarbonate available
so I choose to use those. I wish I could elaborate more thoroughly for you,
but I can't.

John

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:43 AM, M. G. Devour  wrote:

> John Stevens wrote:
> > Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd
> > do some deeper research or have it tested.
>
> John,
>
> Let me ask if you have had a sample of Arm & Hammer baking soda
> analyzed for aluminum contamination, and can you share the report and
> its provenance with us?
>
> All I've seen so far in an admittedly cursory examination of this issue
> are numerous nervous remarks from people passing on what they've heard,
> and one or two obviously self-serving vendors attempting, quite
> successfully, to generate fear, uncertainty and doubt about their
> bigger competitors in order to carve out for themselves a niche market
> among health-conscious consumers.
>
> If you can show me analytic results from sources provably unaffiliated
> with the sellers of so-called "aluminum-free" sodium bicarbonate, I
> will certainly consider them. Access to your own results or specific
> links to other objective sources would be appreciated, as I don't have
> energy available to do extensive research to prove or disprove your
> assertions.
>
> Meanwhile, ad hominem attacks, whether of the "you're full of crap" or
> "you're a paid shill" variety, are sufficient to endanger participation
> in the group for those making them. Please refrain, folks.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mike D.
> [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
> [mdev...@eskimo.com]
> [Speaking only for myself...   ]
>
>
> --
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>
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[M. G. Devour]

John Stevens wrote:
> Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd
> do some deeper research or have it tested.

John,

Let me ask if you have had a sample of Arm & Hammer baking soda 
analyzed for aluminum contamination, and can you share the report and 
its provenance with us?

All I've seen so far in an admittedly cursory examination of this issue 
are numerous nervous remarks from people passing on what they've heard, 
and one or two obviously self-serving vendors attempting, quite 
successfully, to generate fear, uncertainty and doubt about their 
bigger competitors in order to carve out for themselves a niche market 
among health-conscious consumers.

If you can show me analytic results from sources provably unaffiliated 
with the sellers of so-called "aluminum-free" sodium bicarbonate, I 
will certainly consider them. Access to your own results or specific 
links to other objective sources would be appreciated, as I don't have 
energy available to do extensive research to prove or disprove your 
assertions.

Meanwhile, ad hominem attacks, whether of the "you're full of crap" or 
"you're a paid shill" variety, are sufficient to endanger participation 
in the group for those making them. Please refrain, folks.

Thank you,

Mike D.
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com]
[Speaking only for myself...   ]


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate // Sol

[zzekelink]

 
In a message dated 1/5/2010 5:21:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
sol...@sweetwaterhsa.com writes:

Addendum/correction:



This is so  interestingThanks---Lois

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

Addendum/correction:
The natural Soda company of Colorado does produce sodium bicarbonate 
by solution mining. I was unaware of that before researching 
further.sorry. Here is a link to the analysis of their 
Food grade #3 fine powder shows there are indeed contaminants in the 
product. In particular I showed my husband the analysis and he noted 
the sodium chloride content they list as "possible". The soda ash 
mine he worked in also uses solution mining in part, and he was the 
"water master" for that for many years. That company had customers 
who would not accept product with sodium chloride content of 150 ppm, 
and specified it had to be much less than that. He says that salt 
(sodium chloride) is a problem in solution mining, and in fact, even 
sodium bicarbonate can be a problem in mining Trona via 
water/solution, as it coats the ore and prevents it from dissolving.
Note in the analysis that some potentially quite harmful substances 
are present in the product, such as arsenic and lead. "Meets 
requirement" does not equate to "none", BTW.

http://www.naturalsoda.com/images/NSI%20Food%203.pdf

I am trying to find an analysis of Arm and Hammer baking soda to 
compare. But so far, I've seen nothing to  change my mind that there 
is no reason at all to spend 3 or 4 times as much or even twice as 
much on so-called "aluminum free" baking SODA. According to the other 
link below, both products meed the USP standard and are 99% "pure" .

I do buy aluminum free baking POWDER, however.
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Baking-Soda.html
(my DH says that he thought FMC closed their small bicarb plant, but 
he could be wrong).

sol



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RE: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Nenah Sylver]

 

The FDA does take labelling of ingredients very seriously. It is one of the
only things they are good for. This doesn't mean they don't allow a lot of
questionable or harmful stuff to be put into products, it just means they
care that the labelling is accurate.

sol 

===

Unfortunately, there are many harmful ingredients that the FDA does not
require companies to list. For instance, MSG can be hidden by "yeast
extract." "Natural flavors" can actually mean "artificial ingredients," and
so on.

   I rely on labels, and do lots of checking myself on the side to ensure
that what I use is safe. Plus, I don't use manufactured (already prepared)
foods.

-Nenah 

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

At 01:32 PM 1/4/2010, you wrote:

Marshall:

if you can test for it, please do so and publish your results.  as 
far as the FDA is concerned, you must be joking...


John


The FDA does take labelling of ingredients very seriously. It is one 
of the only things they are good for. This doesn't mean they don't 
allow a lot of questionable or harmful stuff to be put into products, 
it just means they care that the labelling is accurate.
sol 




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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[sol]

In addition to the below, there is no real assurance that the baking 
soda that is sold as being better than Arm and Hammer is not made by 
Church and Dwight. It makes sense to me that ALL U.S. produced baking 
soda is refined by Church and Dwight, because I live where it is 
mined and produced, and all the Trona mines here sell soda ash to 
Church and Dwight. Church and Dwight does not mine their own soda ash 
(the raw ore is called Trona).


There is also soda ash produced by chemical processes, that is not 
mined. So far as I know to date, the only natural deposits of Trona 
are the one here in Wyoming, which I believe is the only commercially 
viable site. There are Trona deposits in China also but last I heard 
they are not being developed yet, also the method of making soda ash 
chemically uses salt, and carbon dioxide or monoxide from coal and a 
LOT of energy to make it. Still it is now cheaper in Europe and China 
to produce it from the solvay process than to ship in mined soda ash, 
because of shipping costs. At least that is my current understanding.


Trona mines are very deep, and costs to develop mining are probably 
now prohibitive.
Since there is plenty of soda ash produced in the U.S. in Wyoming, 
and it would very likely be prohibitively expensive to ship in solvay 
process soda ash or refined baking soda from either Europe or China, 
it is probably the case that ALL the baking soda in the U.S. is mined 
here and refined by Church and Dwight.  If the source of the more 
expensive supposedly more pure baking soda is solvay process soda ash 
from Europe (could as easily be from China), then I still don't see 
any advantage to buying it, because there is really no guarantee it 
is any purer. But there are always people who will believe any kind 
of marketing hype, and will always think it something costs more that 
proves it is better.

sol

At 12:45 PM 1/3/2010, you wrote:
Out of curiosity, I looked up a site that explained the various 
methods of producing baking soda.   None of them involve 
aluminum.   For this reason, I am comfortable with any brand of 
baking soda as long as it is not made in China.  I would then be 
concerned about lead, melamine, or other odd contaminants.


http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Baking-Soda.html

Am I missing anything?

Why would one choose to disbelieve one maker, yet believe 
another?   Don't they all have the same interests?   That is, 
producing a product for which they can sell at a profit?   Making 
sure the product is what they say it is so that they maintain their reputation?


Now, baking soda is sometimes confused with baking powder, a totally 
different product.  Some baking sodas are made with aluminum 
salts.  Is this causing some confusion with baking powder?








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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

John E. Stevens wrote:

Marshall:

if you can test for it, please do so and publish your results.
If anyone will tell me that I am testing for.  I need to know what 
compound of aluminum is suppose to be in there. 

  as far as the FDA is concerned, you must be joking...
FDA does take action on labeling, lots of times. They certainly go after 
anyone selling colloidal silver if it is not labeled properly as a 
mineral supplement. They got on General Mills on Cheerios last year on 
claims about fiber.  They put a wine company out of business because 
they put information on the label that the FDA didn't like.  They like 
going after companies on products that are mislabeled, it is easy, very 
provable, and makes them look like they are performing a service.


Marshall


John

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Annie B Smythe > wrote:


My understanding of it is that a competitor started the rumor
about aluminum in Arm & Hammer many years ago, and it has hung
around ever since. Gives you a real respect for the power of words
and the harm or benefit they can bring about.

Annie

If we could sell our experiences for what they
cost us, we'd all be millionaires.
Abigail Van Buren

Marshall Dudley wrote:

Well, if it was contaminated with aluminum or any other
chemical, they would be in big trouble, labeling requirements
are not taken lightly by the FDA.  Also since sodium
bicarbonate is one of the cheapest chemicals in the world, and
all aluminum compounds are much more expensive why would they
add something that would cause them a criminal liability, cost
them a great deal more money, and decrease the effectiveness
of the product and turn any consumer in the know against their
product. It makes no sense to add anything that will increase
the cost, decrease the effectiveness and cause a liability to
the company.

Anyone who thinks that aluminum is added to baking soda, then
tell me what form it is in. I can easily test for it if I know
what I am looking for.  It certainly cannot be aluminum metal
or even aluminum oxide since both are insoluble.

Marshall

John E. Stevens wrote:

I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium
bicarbonate can be found in most health food stores and at
drclark.net   or
drclark.com   -
where I buy mine.

John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, mailto:zzekel...@aol.com> >> wrote:

   In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:17:03 P.M. Eastern
Standard Time,
   patriot2...@cox.net 
>
writes:

   John can you provide names, websites and/or links
to a pure
   sodium bicarbonate.

I’d like to get something tried and true J

   Thanks,

   Lisa

   Sorry to jump in here but I e-mailed the producers of
"Arm &
   Hammer" SB, when this topic was discussed quite awhile
ago, & they
   assured me that their SB does not contain aluminum. I
buy mine at
   the regular grocery store...Lois




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RE: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Nenah Sylver]

Just to add one more thing: A few months ago I called up a Bob's Red Mill
rep and she told me that she didn't think Arm & Hammer (their "competitor")
contained any aluminum! She didn't know why Bob's Red Mill brand states
specifically "no aluminum" since (as Marshall pointed out) sodium
bicarbonate by definition doesn't contain aluminum (otherwise, it would be
called something else).

 

Steve, you are quite correct unfortunately, that people can get really nasty
and devious when trying to sell something.

 

Nenah 

 

Nenah Sylver, PhD

author: The Rife Handbook of Frequency Therapy (2009),

now available in HARDCOVER

& The Holistic Handbook of Sauna Therapy

 <http://www.nenahsylver.com> www.nenahsylver.com 

  _  

From: Steve G [mailto:chube...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 2:02 PM
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate 

 

This reminded me about the marketing of tunafish that I had read about years
ago.  I forget the names of the companies involved.  But one company almost
put it's competitors out of business by advertising that THEIR tuna is
guaranteed not to turn red in the can.   Turns out that there are naturally
two different colors of tuna reddish flesh and whitish flesh.   

This was an extremely effective campaign since consumers immediately assumed
something was wrong with the darker tuna and stopped buying those brands.
It got so bad that the government stepped in to put an end to the
shenanigans.

Now, in modern times, the Red Mill folks are proudly proclaiming that THEIR
baking soda has NO aluminum.   No doubt this is an accurate statement.  But
it SUGGESTS that other brands do have aluminum and are hiding it.   

What's the truth?   I don't know, but if A & H says there isn't any, I'm
taking them at their word.   I have no reason to think that it would be
otherwise. 

Steve G.

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Steve G]

This reminded me about the marketing of tunafish that I had read about years 
ago.  I forget the names of the companies involved.  But one company almost put 
it's competitors out of business by advertising that THEIR tuna is guaranteed 
not to turn red in the can.   Turns out that there are naturally two different 
colors of tuna reddish flesh and whitish flesh.   

This was an extremely effective campaign since consumers immediately assumed 
something was wrong with the darker tuna and stopped buying those brands.    It 
got so bad that the government stepped in to put an end to the shenanigans.

Now, in modern times, the Red Mill folks are proudly proclaiming that THEIR 
baking soda has NO aluminum.   No doubt this is an accurate statement.  But it 
SUGGESTS that other brands do have aluminum and are hiding it.   

What's the truth?   I don't know, but if A & H says there isn't any, I'm taking 
them at their word.   I have no reason to think that it would be otherwise. 

Steve G.









--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Marshall Dudley  wrote:

From: Marshall Dudley 
Subject: Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 3:11 PM

Since you seem to think you are the expert on this, tell me what form 
this aluminum is in. If you know so much about it, you must know the 
form. I have a box of A&H soda and will test for it.

Marshall

John E. Stevens wrote:
> Okay, master - whatever you say...  Believe what you wish big mouth!  
> Do you, too, work for Arm and Hammer?  Paid shills - they're amazing...
>
> John
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Dan Nave  <mailto:bhangcha...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     John,
>
>     You're full of crap about this one...
>
>     There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.
>
>     Dan
>
>     On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
>      <mailto:jonellis.steven...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very
>     trusting but may
>     > be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only
>     killed 139,000
>     > people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1
>     out of 110
>     > Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say
>     mercury fillings
>     > are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some
>     deeper
>     > research or have it tested.
>     >
>     > John
>     >
>     > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM,      <mailto:zzekel...@aol.com>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>     >> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com
>     <mailto:jonellis.steven...@gmail.com> writes:
>     >>
>     >> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate
>     can be found
>     >> in most health food stores and at drclark.net
>     <http://drclark.net> or drclark.com <http://drclark.com> - where I buy
>     >> mine.
>     >>
>     >> John
>     >>
>     >> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail.
>     They even list
>     >> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the
>     dictionary}... They
>     >> also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal &
>     external
>     >> paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the
>     farm when I
>     >> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house
>     if we got a
>     >> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have
>     used it with all
>     >> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use
>     it in place
>     >> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
>     >>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it
>     were not a
>     >> pure product. }} Lois
>     >
>
>
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>
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>
>




  

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Marshall:

if you can test for it, please do so and publish your results.  as far as
the FDA is concerned, you must be joking...

John

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Annie B Smythe wrote:

> My understanding of it is that a competitor started the rumor about
> aluminum in Arm & Hammer many years ago, and it has hung around ever since.
> Gives you a real respect for the power of words and the harm or benefit they
> can bring about.
>
> Annie
>
> If we could sell our experiences for what they
> cost us, we'd all be millionaires.
> Abigail Van Buren
>
> Marshall Dudley wrote:
>
>> Well, if it was contaminated with aluminum or any other chemical, they
>> would be in big trouble, labeling requirements are not taken lightly by the
>> FDA.  Also since sodium bicarbonate is one of the cheapest chemicals in the
>> world, and all aluminum compounds are much more expensive why would they add
>> something that would cause them a criminal liability, cost them a great deal
>> more money, and decrease the effectiveness of the product and turn any
>> consumer in the know against their product. It makes no sense to add
>> anything that will increase the cost, decrease the effectiveness and cause a
>> liability to the company.
>>
>> Anyone who thinks that aluminum is added to baking soda, then tell me what
>> form it is in. I can easily test for it if I know what I am looking for.  It
>> certainly cannot be aluminum metal or even aluminum oxide since both are
>> insoluble.
>>
>> Marshall
>>
>> John E. Stevens wrote:
>>
>>> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be found
>>> in most health food stores and at drclark.net  or
>>> drclark.com  - where I buy mine.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, >> zzekel...@aol.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:17:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>>patriot2...@cox.net  writes:
>>>
>>>John can you provide names, websites and/or links to a pure
>>>sodium bicarbonate.
>>>
>>> I’d like to get something tried and true J
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Lisa
>>>
>>>Sorry to jump in here but I e-mailed the producers of "Arm &
>>>Hammer" SB, when this topic was discussed quite awhile ago, & they
>>>assured me that their SB does not contain aluminum. I buy mine at
>>>the regular grocery store...Lois
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>>
>> Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
>>
>> To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Annie B Smythe]

My understanding of it is that a competitor 
started the rumor about aluminum in Arm & Hammer 
many years ago, and it has hung around ever since. 
Gives you a real respect for the power of words 
and the harm or benefit they can bring about.


Annie

If we could sell our experiences for what they
cost us, we'd all be millionaires.
Abigail Van Buren

Marshall Dudley wrote:
Well, if it was contaminated with aluminum or any other chemical, they 
would be in big trouble, labeling requirements are not taken lightly by 
the FDA.  Also since sodium bicarbonate is one of the cheapest chemicals 
in the world, and all aluminum compounds are much more expensive why 
would they add something that would cause them a criminal liability, 
cost them a great deal more money, and decrease the effectiveness of the 
product and turn any consumer in the know against their product. It 
makes no sense to add anything that will increase the cost, decrease the 
effectiveness and cause a liability to the company.


Anyone who thinks that aluminum is added to baking soda, then tell me 
what form it is in. I can easily test for it if I know what I am looking 
for.  It certainly cannot be aluminum metal or even aluminum oxide since 
both are insoluble.


Marshall

John E. Stevens wrote:
I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be 
found in most health food stores and at drclark.net 
 or drclark.com  - where I buy 
mine.


John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, > wrote:


In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:17:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
patriot2...@cox.net  writes:

John can you provide names, websites and/or links to a pure
sodium bicarbonate.

 I’d like to get something tried and true J

Thanks,

Lisa

Sorry to jump in here but I e-mailed the producers of "Arm &
Hammer" SB, when this topic was discussed quite awhile ago, & they
assured me that their SB does not contain aluminum. I buy mine at
the regular grocery store...Lois





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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

Since you seem to think you are the expert on this, tell me what form 
this aluminum is in. If you know so much about it, you must know the 
form. I have a box of A&H soda and will test for it.


Marshall

John E. Stevens wrote:
Okay, master - whatever you say...  Believe what you wish big mouth!  
Do you, too, work for Arm and Hammer?  Paid shills - they're amazing...


John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Dan Nave > wrote:


John,

You're full of crap about this one...

There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.

Dan

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
mailto:jonellis.steven...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very
trusting but may
> be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only
killed 139,000
> people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1
out of 110
> Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say
mercury fillings
> are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some
deeper
> research or have it tested.
>
> John
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM, mailto:zzekel...@aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com
 writes:
>>
>> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate
can be found
>> in most health food stores and at drclark.net
 or drclark.com  - where I buy
>> mine.
>>
>> John
>>
>> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail.
They even list
>> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the
dictionary}... They
>> also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal &
external
>> paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the
farm when I
>> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house
if we got a
>> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have
used it with all
>> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use
it in place
>> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
>>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it
were not a
>> pure product. }} Lois
>


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Marshall Dudley]

Well, if it was contaminated with aluminum or any other chemical, they 
would be in big trouble, labeling requirements are not taken lightly by 
the FDA.  Also since sodium bicarbonate is one of the cheapest chemicals 
in the world, and all aluminum compounds are much more expensive why 
would they add something that would cause them a criminal liability, 
cost them a great deal more money, and decrease the effectiveness of the 
product and turn any consumer in the know against their product. It 
makes no sense to add anything that will increase the cost, decrease the 
effectiveness and cause a liability to the company.


Anyone who thinks that aluminum is added to baking soda, then tell me 
what form it is in. I can easily test for it if I know what I am looking 
for.  It certainly cannot be aluminum metal or even aluminum oxide since 
both are insoluble.


Marshall

John E. Stevens wrote:
I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be 
found in most health food stores and at drclark.net 
 or drclark.com  - where I buy 
mine.


John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM, > wrote:


In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:17:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
patriot2...@cox.net  writes:

John can you provide names, websites and/or links to a pure
sodium bicarbonate.

 I’d like to get something tried and true J

Thanks,

Lisa

Sorry to jump in here but I e-mailed the producers of "Arm &
Hammer" SB, when this topic was discussed quite awhile ago, & they
assured me that their SB does not contain aluminum. I buy mine at
the regular grocery store...Lois





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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Alan:  Dr. Wm Campbell Douglass II has some info on it.  David G. Williams,
a notable and excellent chiropractic researcher, also has some info on it.
I'd check Dr. James Balch, too.  Maybe Dr. Shallenberger, too.  Dr. Robert
Rowan would be another good source.  Manufacturers, in my research, cannot
be trusted to tell the truth.  They just want to sell.
And it's a matter of "Buyer Beware."  Be very aware!

John

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Alan Jones  wrote:

> John, where can we find these outside reports which indicate there is
> aluminum in Arm & Hammer baking soda?
>
> Alan
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens <
> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very trusting but
>> may be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed
>> 139,000 people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1 out
>> of 110 Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say mercury
>> fillings are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some
>> deeper research or have it tested.
>>
>> John
>
>
> --
> Alan Jones
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Alan Jones]

John, where can we find these outside reports which indicate there is
aluminum in Arm & Hammer baking soda?

Alan

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens <
jonellis.steven...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very trusting but may
> be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed 139,000
> people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1 out of 110
> Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say mercury fillings
> are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some deeper
> research or have it tested.
>
> John


-- 
Alan Jones

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Steve G]

Out of curiosity, I looked up a site that explained the various methods of 
producing baking soda.   None of them involve aluminum.   For this reason, I am 
comfortable with any brand of baking soda as long as it is not made in China.  
I would then be concerned about lead, melamine, or other odd contaminants.

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Baking-Soda.html

Am I missing anything?

Why would one choose to disbelieve one maker, yet believe another?   Don't they 
all have the same interests?   That is, producing a product for which they can 
sell at a profit?   Making sure the product is what they say it is so that they 
maintain their reputation?

Now, baking soda is sometimes confused with baking powder, a totally different 
product.  Some baking sodas are made with aluminum salts.  Is this causing some 
confusion with baking powder?






  

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Annie B Smythe]

LMAO

Annie

If we could sell our experiences for what they
cost us, we'd all be millionaires.
Abigail Van Buren

MaryAnn Helland wrote:


Hmm -- another shot across the bow.  Must be the full moon. 
 
John -- if Dan was a paid shill for Arm & Hammer, he's been waiting for 
YEARS to post that two-liner on the subject!!  lol

MA

*From:* John E. Stevens 
*To:* silver-list@eskimo.com
*Sent:* Sun, January 3, 2010 6:08:59 AM
*Subject:* Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

Okay, master - whatever you say...  Believe what you wish big mouth!  Do 
you, too, work for Arm and Hammer?  Paid shills - they're amazing...


John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Dan Nave <mailto:bhangcha...@gmail.com>> wrote:


John,

You're full of crap about this one...

There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda..

Dan

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
mailto:jonellis.steven...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
 > I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very
trusting but may
 > be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed
139,000
 > people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1
out of 110
 > Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say mercury
fillings
 > are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some
deeper
 > research or have it tested.
 >
 > John
 >
 > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM, mailto:zzekel...@aol.com>> wrote:
 >>
 >> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
 >> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com
<mailto:jonellis.steven...@gmail.com> writes:
 >>
 >> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can
be found
 >> in most health food stores and at drclark.net
<http://drclark.net/> or drclark.com <http://drclark.com/> - where I buy
 >> mine.
 >>
 >> John
 >>
 >> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail. They
even list
 >> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the
dictionary}... They
 >> also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal &
external
 >> paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the
farm when I
 >> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house if
we got a
 >> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have used
it with all
 >> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use
it in place
 >> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
 >>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it
were not a
 >> pure product. }} Lois
 >


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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[MaryAnn Helland]

Hmm -- another shot across the bow.  Must be the full moon. 

John -- if Dan was a paid shill for Arm & Hammer, he's been waiting for YEARS 
to post that two-liner on the subject!!  lol
MA




From: John E. Stevens 
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 6:08:59 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

Okay, master - whatever you say...  Believe what you wish big mouth!  Do you, 
too, work for Arm and Hammer?  Paid shills - they're amazing...

John


On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Dan Nave  wrote:

John,
>
>You're full of crap about this one...
>
>There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.
>
>Dan
>
>On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
> wrote:
>> I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very trusting but may
>> be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed 139,000
>> people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1 out of 110
>> Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say mercury fillings
>> are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some deeper
>> research or have it tested.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM,  wrote:
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be found
>>> in most health food stores and at drclark.net or drclark.com - where I buy
>>> mine.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail. They even list
>>> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the dictionary}... They
>>> also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal & external
>>> paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the farm when I
>>> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house if we got a
>>> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have used it with all
>>> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use it in place
>>> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
>>>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it were not a
>>> pure product. }} Lois
>>
>
>
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>
>Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
>
>To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Tony Moody]

Hi John,

What about giving some info about where you got your info please. Or 
maybe how to put up a search for what you are on about? 

Maybe you are thinking of Baking Powder which could have aluminium. One 
formula is :

"Baking powder consists of baking soda, one or more acid salts (cream of 
tartar and sodium aluminum sulfate) plus cornstarch to absorb any 
moisture ... "

Inquisitive,

Tony


On 3 Jan 2010 at 7:08, John E. Stevens wrote about :
Subject : Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bi

> Okay, master - whatever you say...  Believe what you wish big mouth!  Do
> you, too, work for Arm and Hammer?  Paid shills - they're amazing...
> 
> John
> 
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Dan Nave  wrote:
> 
> > John,
> >
> > You're full of crap about this one...
> >
> > There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
> >  wrote:
> > > I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very trusting
> > > but
> > may
> > > be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed
> > > 139,000 people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1
> > > out of 110 Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say
> > > mercury
> > fillings
> > > are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some deeper
> > > research or have it tested.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM,  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > >> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com writes:
> > >>
> > >> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be
> > found
> > >> in most health food stores and at drclark.net or drclark.com - where
> > >> I
> > buy
> > >> mine.
> > >>
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail. They even
> > list
> > >> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the dictionary}...
> > >> They also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal &
> > >> external paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on
> > >> the farm when
> > I
> > >> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house if we
> > >> got
> > a
> > >> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have used it
> > >> with
> > all
> > >> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use it in
> > place
> > >> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
> > >>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it were
> > >>  not
> > a
> > >> pure product. }} Lois
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
> >
> > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> > List maintainer: Mike Devour 
> >
> >
> >
> 

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Donna]

Thank you for taking the time to contact Church & Dwight Co., Inc. 
regarding ARM & HAMMER Baking Soda.


Your comments are important to us and provide valuable information that 
helps us maintain the high level of quality you have come to expect from 
our products and services.


Our baking soda is 100% sodium bicarbonate and does not contain aluminum.

If you have any questions or concerns in the future, please feel free to 
contact our Consumer Relations Department at 1-800-524-1328 between the 
hours of 9:00 am and 5:00 pm ET or visit our corporate web site at: 
www.churchdwight.com.


We value your patronage and trust you will continue to use Church & 
Dwight Co., Inc. products with confidence.


Thank you for choosing Church & Dwight Co., Inc."
Okay, master - whatever you say...  Believe what you wish big mouth!  
Do you, too, work for Arm and Hammer?  Paid shills - they're amazing...


John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Dan Nave > wrote:


John,

You're full of crap about this one...

There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.

Dan

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
mailto:jonellis.steven...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very
trusting but may
> be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only
killed 139,000
> people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1
out of 110
> Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say
mercury fillings
> are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some
deeper
> research or have it tested.
>
> John
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM, mailto:zzekel...@aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com
 writes:
>>
>> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate
can be found
>> in most health food stores and at drclark.net
 or drclark.com  - where I buy
>> mine.
>>
>> John
>>
>> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail.
They even list
>> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the
dictionary}... They
>> also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal &
external
>> paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the
farm when I
>> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house
if we got a
>> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have
used it with all
>> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use
it in place
>> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
>>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it
were not a
>> pure product. }} Lois
>


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List maintainer: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com>>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

Okay, master - whatever you say...  Believe what you wish big mouth!  Do
you, too, work for Arm and Hammer?  Paid shills - they're amazing...

John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Dan Nave  wrote:

> John,
>
> You're full of crap about this one...
>
> There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.
>
> Dan
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
>  wrote:
> > I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very trusting but
> may
> > be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed 139,000
> > people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1 out of 110
> > Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say mercury
> fillings
> > are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some deeper
> > research or have it tested.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM,  wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com writes:
> >>
> >> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be
> found
> >> in most health food stores and at drclark.net or drclark.com - where I
> buy
> >> mine.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail. They even
> list
> >> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the dictionary}... They
> >> also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal & external
> >> paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the farm when
> I
> >> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house if we got
> a
> >> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have used it with
> all
> >> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use it in
> place
> >> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
> >>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it were not
> a
> >> pure product. }} Lois
> >
>
>
> --
> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver.
>
> Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org
>
> To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com
>
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>
> The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down...
>
> List maintainer: Mike Devour 
>
>
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Dan Nave]

John,

You're full of crap about this one...

There is no aluminum in Arm and Hammer Baking Soda.

Dan

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 7:36 PM, John E. Stevens
 wrote:
> I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very trusting but may
> be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed 139,000
> people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1 out of 110
> Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say mercury fillings
> are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some deeper
> research or have it tested.
>
> John
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM,  wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com writes:
>>
>> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be found
>> in most health food stores and at drclark.net or drclark.com - where I buy
>> mine.
>>
>> John
>>
>> I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail. They even list
>> the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the dictionary}... They
>> also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal & external
>> paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the farm when I
>> was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house if we got a
>> bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have used it with all
>> my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use it in place
>> of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.
>>  {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it were not a
>> pure product. }} Lois
>


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Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org

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Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

I think you need to see some outside reports.  You're very trusting but may
be in harm's way.  The FDA said Vioxx was safe and it only killed 139,000
people.  They also say vaccines are safe and we're suffering 1 out of 110
Autistic children these days. And the ADA and the FDA say mercury fillings
are safe...  Believe what you wish, but personally, I'd do some deeper
research or have it tested.

John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:28 PM,  wrote:

>  In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> jonellis.steven...@gmail.com writes:
>
> I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be found
> in most health food stores and at drclark.net or drclark.com - where I buy
> mine.
>
> John
>
> *I guess I do believe their label & the answer to my e-mail. They even
> list the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the dictionary}...
> They also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both internal &
> external paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our family on the farm
> when I was a youngun. The paste was used when we were near the house if we
> got a bee sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud... I have used it
> with all my kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath yesterday...We use it
> in place of store bought stuff for indigestion upsets.*
> * {{ I really doubt the label would list the medical uses if it were not a
> pure product. }} Lois*
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[zzekelink]

In a message dated 1/2/2010 1:44:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jonellis.steven...@gmail.com writes:

I don't  believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be found 
in  most health food stores and at _drclark.net_ (http://drclark.net/)  or 
_drclark.com_ (http://drclark.com/)  - where I buy  mine.

John
I guess I do believe their label & the answer to  my e-mail. They even list 
the amount of sodium content { Look sodium up in the  dictionary}... They 
also list uses & one of the uses is medicinal---both  internal & external 
paste...I'm 72 & I remember it being used in our  family on the farm when I was 
a youngun. The paste was used when we were near  the house if we got a bee 
sting...If we were out exploring  we used mud...  I have used it with all my 
kids. Just put it in my Epsom salts bath  yesterday...We use it in place of 
store bought stuff for indigestion  upsets.  
{{ I really doubt the label would list the  medical uses if it were not a 
pure product. }}  Lois

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

I don't believe Arm & Hammer, Lois.  Pure Sodium bicarbonate can be found in
most health food stores and at drclark.net or drclark.com - where I buy
mine.

John

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM,  wrote:

>  In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:17:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> patriot2...@cox.net writes:
>
> John can you provide names, websites and/or links to a pure sodium
> bicarbonate.
>
>  I’d like to get something tried and true J
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lisa
>
>  Sorry to jump in here but I e-mailed the producers of "Arm & Hammer" SB,
> when this topic was discussed quite awhile ago, & they assured me that their
> SB does not contain aluminum. I buy mine at the regular grocery store...Lois
>

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[Day Sutton]

The label lists only one ingredient:  sodium bicarbonate
under "other information" is:  each 1/2 tsp is 658 mg sodium

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 10:26 AM,  wrote:

>  In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:17:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> patriot2...@cox.net writes:
>
> John can you provide names, websites and/or links to a pure sodium
> bicarbonate.
>
>  I’d like to get something tried and true J
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lisa
>
>  Sorry to jump in here but I e-mailed the producers of "Arm & Hammer" SB,
> when this topic was discussed quite awhile ago, & they assured me that their
> SB does not contain aluminum. I buy mine at the regular grocery store...Lois
>



-- 
Day Sutton
day.sut...@gmail.com

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[ZZekelink]

 
In a message dated 1/1/2010 10:17:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
patriot2...@cox.net writes:

John can you provide names, websites and/or links to a  pure sodium 
bicarbonate. 

I’d like to get something tried and  true J

Thanks,  

Lisa



Sorry to jump in here but I e-mailed the producers of "Arm  & Hammer" SB, 
when this topic was discussed quite awhile ago, &  they assured me that their 
SB does not contain aluminum. I buy mine at the  regular grocery 
store...Lois

Re: CS>Where to find pure sodium bicarbonate

[John E. Stevens]

As already mentioned.  Bob's Rad Mill is agood source, health food stores,
too. I also get it from Dr. Clark's site - drclark.com or drclark.net.

John

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:15 PM,  wrote:

>  Lisa wrote:
>
> John can you provide names, websites and/or links to a pure sodium
> bicarbonate.
>
>  I’d like to get something tried and true J
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lisa
>
> Here is the information you seek:
>
>  http://www.iherb.com/Bob-s-Red-Mill-Baking-Aids
>
> http://www.vitacost.com/BobsRedMill?csrc=PPCADWLT-bob-s_red_mill&mtp=sJ579hK7R|pcrid|3827282501
>
> Both sites have Bob's Red Mill aluminum free baking soda for under $2.50 a
> pound.  It is also available in most health food stores.
>
> Marlys
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