date:20140319

It's just slow, they may have improved the viewport performance but its
just slow, the constraints are slow.


On 19 March 2014 07:13, Szabolcs Matefy  wrote:

> Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any other
> software, but Max. Only with Max.
>
>
>
> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexander Akbarov
> *Sent:* Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
>
>
>
> If Max crashes "about 5 times in an hour" there is definitely something
> wrong  with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using
> XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of
> myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself...
>
>
>
> 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane  >:
>
> Max is a well known  Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long
> because it has a ridiculous installed user base.
> I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it.
> Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move
> away from it despite a massive market pull.
>
> It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from its
> history to it's identity.
> Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash
> in with a "ducking" rake.
>
>
>

Re: Why MAX is not option for me.

Turns out the "MOST REQUESTED FEATURE" for Max 2015, was a 30$ plugin
http://www.vg2max.spb.ru/edgechex.htm


and looks like new Layer system and schematic nodel view was also third
party tech https://vimeo.com/57075455


On 19 March 2014 07:26, Sebastien Sterling wrote:

> It's just slow, they may have improved the viewport performance but its
> just slow, the constraints are slow.
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 07:13, Szabolcs Matefy  wrote:
>
>> Hehe my PC is in good condition, and frankly has no problem with any
>> other software, but Max. Only with Max.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Alexander Akbarov
>> *Sent:* Monday, March 17, 2014 1:07 PM
>> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Why MAX is not option for me.
>>
>>
>>
>> If Max crashes "about 5 times in an hour" there is definitely something
>> wrong  with your PC. Max is shitty, old and awkward especially after using
>> XSI, but it's very good for archviz. And its is pretty universal because of
>> myriads plug-ins many of them much better than Max itself...
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-17 11:26 GMT+02:00 Raffaele Fragapane <
>> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>:
>>
>> Max is a well known  Frankenstein monster that's only survived this long
>> because it has a ridiculous installed user base.
>> I don't think anybody on this list would have ever have considered it.
>> Even the game market has been trying as hard as they possibly can to move
>> away from it despite a massive market pull.
>>
>> It's almost literally the exact opposite of soft in every regard, from
>> its history to it's identity.
>> Can't honestly blame AD for keeping that one alive though, it brings cash
>> in with a "ducking" rake.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

Its really nice research, and simple to implement, this is the kind of tool 
that will cost you peanuts to integrate in max and Softimage isn't it?

I will certainly read the paper properly.

Jb

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Mar 2014, at 02:31, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paulo César Duarte
>  wrote:
>> Agree, and the geodesic voxel binding skin algorithm, Blender already have
>> at least 1 year ago or more. In other words, no innovation, only
>> implementation of existing tools.
> 
> Got a link to that?  Geodesic voxel binding is research by Autodesk.
>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

I meant "simple to implement" once you have done it in maya of course I am sure 
us not simple, specially since looks like non water tight geometry is handled 
apparently very well and that may be the tough part.

I will ask our RnD guy here what does he thinks about it.

Jb

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Mar 2014, at 08:17, Jordi Bares  wrote:
> 
> Its really nice research, and simple to implement, this is the kind of tool 
> that will cost you peanuts to integrate in max and Softimage isn't it?
> 
> I will certainly read the paper properly.
> 
> Jb
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 02:31, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paulo César Duarte
>>  wrote:
>>> Agree, and the geodesic voxel binding skin algorithm, Blender already have
>>> at least 1 year ago or more. In other words, no innovation, only
>>> implementation of existing tools.
>> 
>> Got a link to that?  Geodesic voxel binding is research by Autodesk.
>>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

2014-03-19 Thread Daniel Sweeney

Not really impressed by these releases. But autodesk releases have not
impressed for a while. Stagnant with A bit of bolted on tech. So OK stuff
in Maya but once again seems like all bolt ons.

I think max is next on the chopping board or they will just let's it sit
and every release will get less and less.
On Mar 19, 2014 8:17 AM, "Jordi Bares"  wrote:

> Its really nice research, and simple to implement, this is the kind of
> tool that will cost you peanuts to integrate in max and Softimage isn't it?
>
> I will certainly read the paper properly.
>
> Jb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 19 Mar 2014, at 02:31, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paulo César Duarte
> >  wrote:
> >> Agree, and the geodesic voxel binding skin algorithm, Blender already
> have
> >> at least 1 year ago or more. In other words, no innovation, only
> >> implementation of existing tools.
> >
> > Got a link to that?  Geodesic voxel binding is research by Autodesk.
> >
>
>

Re: trying to looking on the bright side......

2014-03-19 Thread Arvid Björn

Like someone else said, I can spend days in an ICE tree before caching
anything, it seems to me that the instantness of ICE would be lost in a
round-trip to an external process. But I'm sure it has a lot of advantages.
A big one for AD being that they don't have to venture too deep into the
Maya code base to be able to integrate it.


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> In my book that it's an external module is good for a very extensive
> number of reasons, and it has a good team behind it.
>
> The  approach to the dev and release cycle though I find both questionable
> and insufficient to place it anywhere significant on the map any some than
> two to three years, and that leaves a massive gap for those coming from
> soft and incapable or unwilling to adopt or develop competing solutions.
>
> Given autodesk propensity to rushed and whimsical decisions it also makes
> me unwilling to roll the dice on it at all since it might be a great thing
> that might still get canned if it doesn't  instantaneously produce results,
> results I question it can produce at all any time soon.
>  On 19 Mar 2014 04:48, "Arvid Björn"  wrote:
>
>> I was really surprised that Bifrost was some external process, and then
>> even more surprised that they tried to tout this as a good thing. Here's
>> the mental image I got during that demo:
>>
>> http://i.imgur.com/OUhV4wj.jpg
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Morten Bartholdy 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>   Its probably like this..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: Digital Golem : Brillant and beautiful

2014-03-19 Thread Arvid Björn

Must be done in some of Autodesk's more powerful programs. Great stuff!

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 4:39 AM, Tenshi Sama  wrote:

>
> Nice! All in Softimage?
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Francisco Criado 
> wrote:
>
>> Excelent work, so nice!
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, olivier jeannel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://vimeo.com/groups/ice/videos/89426397
>>>
>>> Kudos to Digital Golem !
>>>
>>
>

Re: Softimage transition webinar is starting in 10 minutes

2014-03-19 Thread Dan Yargici

Thanks Vincent.  Others have also mailed me off list to point this out.
I'm really starting to like what I see in Houdini.  :)

DAN

Sent from my phone...
On 18 Mar 2014 17:45, "Vincent Fortin"  wrote:

> >> Middle-click drag to move branches around
> Shift-drag for upstream
> Ctrl-drag for downstream
> you're welcome ;-)
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 7:53 AM, Dan Yargici  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Ciaran, seems quite nice so far!  I guess it's really the hundreds
>> of little things I'll miss in the end.
>>
>> For instance I've been doing some tutorials on material editing this
>> morning and sorely missed the ability to Middle-click drag to move branches
>> around the SHOP editor.
>>
>> Just one of many little things...
>>
>> I'm committed to Houdini for the long haul though in one shape or
>> another, for sure.
>>
>> DAN
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Ciaran Moloney > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Dan Yargici wrote:
>>>
  I'm starting to think Houdini-land might be where I build my new home
 - or at least a holiday home...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Come on in, the water's fine!
>>>
>>
>>
>

Ancient lurker's response to the current developments

2014-03-19 Thread si

Hi All,
Hi, I'm Stefan. Some of you may recognize my name, some of you might
not. I think I might be an ancient "lurker" on the list here because I
can't recall when last I posted anything to the list. I suspect it
might have been sometime in the early 90's. I could look it up but I'd
have to find some old archive somewhere in my backups. :-)
The most recent events about Softimage, and now the outcry from 3ds
max users about their "upgrade" along with many friends and old
colleagues I've been talking to in the past week inspired me to write
some of my thoughts down about what I see is happening and how I think
Autodesk has passed the point of no-return when it comes to their
position in the community (a large one which is still separated by
products and their users). It's SFW but be prepared for some harsh
paragraphs.
http://www.stefandidak.com/2014/03/autodesk-the-metastasizing-cancer-of-the-3d-world/
Cheers,Stefan.

A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Alastair Hearsum


Folks

Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a 
little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin 
round it.


Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in 
some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good 
position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example 
of the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But 
first just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I 
like to bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically 
all fingers and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down 
car waiting on a big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its 
not true. I do have a degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and 
physics at university and programmed extensively in Lisp in my first 
job. So I'm not stupid BUT:


*I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere after 
I have applied n-cloth to it!*


Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by 
people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the 
all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think 
are really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than 
headline large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of 
wine by that point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try 
something out but I had already twice asked my colleague at work to 
explain what the procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.


So there you have it. Is it me.?

Alastair

--
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk 
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 
25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)

Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private 
and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). 
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do 
not necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the 
intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in 
error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying 
of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received 
in error please kindly return it to the sender and delete this message 
from your system.

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Gaël Honorez



You have to open the hypershade, and graph the sphere.

Then you  will get a awfully large network that is not humanely readable.

So you will open the Node Editor, graph the sphere, and get a nicer 
graph in a interface that doesn't allow to do everything you need to do, 
but you will learn what to open in what case with time.


Here you will see that the polySphere operator is still there.
Click on it, and edit the subdivision.

Why isn't that available after nCloth is applied? Nobody knows, you 
don't ask these questions when using maya. Or you go crazy very fast.


It's not the "programming DCC" because it's flexible, it's the 
"programming DCC" because you have will have your shelves full of mel 
scripts to do simple things very rapidly :)




On 19/03/2014 10:32, Alastair Hearsum wrote:


Folks

Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a 
little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and 
spin round it.


Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments 
in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a 
good position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an 
example of the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's 
faces. But first just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my 
difficulty. I like to bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who 
is technically all fingers and thumbs, like the woman by the side of 
her broken down car waiting on a big strong man to help her out. The 
truth is that its not true. I do have a degree in Fine Art but I also 
studied maths and physics at university and programmed extensively in 
Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:


*I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere 
after I have applied n-cloth to it!*


Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced 
by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of 
the all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I 
think are really fundamental problems and more important in some ways 
than headline large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of 
glasses of wine by that point and it was a casual , before bedtime 
attempt to try something out but I had already twice asked my 
colleague at work to explain what the procedure was and I followed 
what he was doing at the time.


So there you have it. Is it me.?

Alastair

--
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk 
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 
25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)

Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, 
private and confidential and are intended solely for the stated 
recipient(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent those of the Company. If you 
are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this 
e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, 
or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If this transmission 
is received in error please kindly return it to the sender and delete 
this message from your system.

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Ivan Vasiljevic

You should go with something more simpler for start:

Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in SI.
Since hypershade is passe try opening fancy node editor and try to branch
material based on your object selection, something default branched in
render tree.

I know there is more Maya-SI users let's have more of these here... I have
plenty more on my mind...

Ivan



On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Gaël Honorez  wrote:

>
> You have to open the hypershade, and graph the sphere.
>
> Then you  will get a awfully large network that is not humanely readable.
>
> So you will open the Node Editor, graph the sphere, and get a nicer graph
> in a interface that doesn't allow to do everything you need to do, but you
> will learn what to open in what case with time.
>
> Here you will see that the polySphere operator is still there.
> Click on it, and edit the subdivision.
>
> Why isn't that available after nCloth is applied? Nobody knows, you don't
> ask these questions when using maya. Or you go crazy very fast.
>
> It's not the "programming DCC" because it's flexible, it's the
> "programming DCC" because you have will have your shelves full of mel
> scripts to do simple things very rapidly :)
>
>
>
>
> On 19/03/2014 10:32, Alastair Hearsum wrote:
>
> Folks
>
>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
> round it.
>
>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in
> some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>
>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere after
> I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>
>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by
> people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the all
> encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>
>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>
>  Alastair
>
>  --
>  Alastair Hearsum
>  Head of 3d
> [image: GLASSWORKS]
>  33/34 Great Pulteney Street
> London
> W1F 9NP
> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
> glassworks.co.uk 
>  Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>  (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>  Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>  DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>
>
>


-- 
Ivan Vasiljevic
-
Lighting TD
Founder, Digital Asset Tailors
-
reel:https://vimeo.com/72183649
web:www.ivasiljevic.com
email:  i...@digitalassettailors.com
   ivan_vasilje...@hotmail.com

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Stefano Jannuzzo

You're not alone


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Alastair Hearsum  wrote:

>  Folks
>
>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
> round it.
>
>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in
> some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>
>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere after
> I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>
>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by
> people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the all
> encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>
>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>
>  Alastair
>
>
>

RE: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Nick Angus

First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the cockpit 
is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds nests.

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Alastair Hearsum
Sent: ‎19/‎03/‎2014 7:33 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: A confession

Folks
 Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a little poke 
every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin round it.
 Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in some 
eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good position to 
appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of the trouble I'm 
having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first just a couple of 
more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to bill myself as the 
sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers and thumbs, like the 
woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a big strong man to help 
her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a degree in Fine Art but I 
also studied maths and physics at university and programmed extensively in Lisp 
in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
 I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere after I have 
applied n-cloth to it!
 Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by 
people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the all 
encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are really 
fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline large 
features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that point and 
it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but I had already 
twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the procedure was and I 
followed what he was doing at the time.
 So there you have it. Is it me.?
 Alastair

--
Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
[GLASSWORKS]
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25 
Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and 
confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views or 
opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return it 
to the sender and delete this message from your system.

Re: Ancient lurker's response to the current developments

Interesting read, and welcome to the list Stefan!


On 19 March 2014 09:04,  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Hi, I'm Stefan. Some of you may recognize my name, some of you might not.
> I think I might be an ancient "lurker" on the list here because I can't
> recall when last I posted anything to the list. I suspect it might have
> been sometime in the early 90's. I could look it up but I'd have to find
> some old archive somewhere in my backups. :-)
>
> The most recent events about Softimage, and now the outcry from 3ds max
> users about their "upgrade" along with many friends and old colleagues I've
> been talking to in the past week inspired me to write some of my thoughts
> down about what I see is happening and how I think Autodesk has passed the
> point of no-return when it comes to their position in the community (a
> large one which is still separated by products and their users). It's SFW
> but be prepared for some harsh paragraphs.
>
>
> http://www.stefandidak.com/2014/03/autodesk-the-metastasizing-cancer-of-the-3d-world/
>
> Cheers,
> Stefan.
>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Nicolas Esposito

Same boat here, but I'm lazy and I've subscribed to digitaltutors in order
to start from scratch and learn some tips and tricks in order to be more
productive.

Honestly, since I never looked into Maya that much ( except for some Apex
clothing stuff ) but I appreciate some of the feature related to game
development and I'm curious to see how my workflow will change, hopefully (
praying mostly ) that it wont be so underwhelming then Softimage


2014-03-19 10:52 GMT+01:00 Stefano Jannuzzo :

> You're not alone
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Alastair Hearsum <
> hear...@glassworks.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>  Folks
>>
>>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
>> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
>> round it.
>>
>>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments
>> in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
>> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
>> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
>> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
>> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
>> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
>> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
>> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
>> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>>
>>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
>> after I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>>
>>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced
>> by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the
>> all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
>> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
>> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
>> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
>> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
>> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>>
>>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>>
>>  Alastair
>>
>>
>>

Re: A confession

Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P


On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:

>  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the
> cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
> nests.
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
>  --
> From: Alastair Hearsum 
> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: A confession
>
>  Folks
>
>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a little
> poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin round it.
>
>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in
> some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>
>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere after
> I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>
>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by
> people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the all
> encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>
>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>
>  Alastair
>
>  --
> Alastair Hearsum
> Head of 3d
> [image: GLASSWORKS]
> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
> London
> W1F 9NP
> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
> glassworks.co.uk 
> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>

Re: Ancient lurker's response to the current developments

2014-03-19 Thread Octavian Ureche

That was actually quite refreshing. Thanks for putting those thoughts down
Stefan.
Nothing new under the sun, but definitely made a very good read.




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Cristobal Infante wrote:

> Interesting read, and welcome to the list Stefan!
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 09:04,  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Hi, I'm Stefan. Some of you may recognize my name, some of you might not.
>> I think I might be an ancient "lurker" on the list here because I can't
>> recall when last I posted anything to the list. I suspect it might have
>> been sometime in the early 90's. I could look it up but I'd have to find
>> some old archive somewhere in my backups. :-)
>>
>> The most recent events about Softimage, and now the outcry from 3ds max
>> users about their "upgrade" along with many friends and old colleagues I've
>> been talking to in the past week inspired me to write some of my thoughts
>> down about what I see is happening and how I think Autodesk has passed the
>> point of no-return when it comes to their position in the community (a
>> large one which is still separated by products and their users). It's SFW
>> but be prepared for some harsh paragraphs.
>>
>>
>> http://www.stefandidak.com/2014/03/autodesk-the-metastasizing-cancer-of-the-3d-world/
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Stefan.
>>
>
>


-- 
Octavian Ureche
 +40 732 774 313 (GMT+2)
 Animation & Visual Effects
  www.okto.ro

Re: A confession

Alastair,
Even I remember those Lisp days! Shudder!
Anyway, can I ask, are you now trying Maya because Autodesk were so kind to
give you a free version, or because you feel it really is the way forward
for us Softies?
I still have no idea which way to turn.
Cheers



On 19 March 2014 09:57, Sebastien Sterling wrote:

> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>
>>  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the
>> cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
>> nests.
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>  --
>> From: Alastair Hearsum 
>> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
>>
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: A confession
>>
>>  Folks
>>
>>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
>> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
>> round it.
>>
>>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in
>> some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
>> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
>> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
>> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
>> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
>> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
>> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
>> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
>> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>>
>>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
>> after I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>>
>>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by
>> people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the all
>> encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
>> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
>> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
>> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
>> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
>> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>>
>>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>>
>>  Alastair
>>
>>  --
>> Alastair Hearsum
>> Head of 3d
>> [image: GLASSWORKS]
>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>> London
>> W1F 9NP
>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>> glassworks.co.uk 
>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
>> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>>
>
>


-- 

Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk

Re: A confession

I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:

*Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene because they
are not referenced and there has been topology, shader  changes (objects
are called the same)
*Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and done :)
*Maya use*r:  . what?
*Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
*Maya Use*r: not possible.
*Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
*Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character by
character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will re-assign
all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other 5 render
scenes!
*Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are staying
late?


J




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>
>>  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the
>> cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
>> nests.
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>  --
>> From: Alastair Hearsum 
>> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
>>
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: A confession
>>
>>  Folks
>>
>>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
>> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
>> round it.
>>
>>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in
>> some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
>> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
>> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
>> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
>> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
>> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
>> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
>> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
>> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>>
>>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
>> after I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>>
>>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by
>> people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the all
>> encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
>> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
>> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
>> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
>> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
>> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>>
>>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>>
>>  Alastair
>>
>>  --
>> Alastair Hearsum
>> Head of 3d
>> [image: GLASSWORKS]
>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>> London
>> W1F 9NP
>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>> glassworks.co.uk 
>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
>> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>>
>
>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Martin Contel

Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users who have never
tried something else don't know that the grass was greener on the other
side.

Saludetes!

--
Martin Contel
Square Enix (Visual Works)


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez wrote:

> I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
> curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:
>
> *Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene because
> they are not referenced and there has been topology, shader  changes
> (objects are called the same)
> *Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and done :)
> *Maya use*r:  . what?
> *Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
> *Maya Use*r: not possible.
> *Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
> *Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character by
> character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will re-assign
> all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other 5 render
> scenes!
> *Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are
> staying late?
> 
>
> J
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>>
>>>  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the
>>> cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
>>> nests.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>>  --
>>> From: Alastair Hearsum 
>>> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
>>>
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: A confession
>>>
>>>  Folks
>>>
>>>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
>>> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
>>> round it.
>>>
>>>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments
>>> in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
>>> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
>>> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
>>> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
>>> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
>>> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
>>> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
>>> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
>>> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>>>
>>>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
>>> after I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>>>
>>>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced
>>> by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the
>>> all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
>>> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
>>> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
>>> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
>>> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
>>> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>>>
>>>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>>>
>>>  Alastair
>>>
>>>  --
>>> Alastair Hearsum
>>> Head of 3d
>>> [image: GLASSWORKS]
>>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>>> London
>>> W1F 9NP
>>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>>> glassworks.co.uk 
>>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office
>>> 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
>>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
>>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
>>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
>>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
>>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
>>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Gaël Honorez


On 19/03/2014 10:51, Ivan Vasiljevic wrote:

You should go with something more simpler for start:

Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened 
in SI.

Since hypershade is passe


Is it?

I'm still using 2013, but it's almost the same in 2014 : The node editor 
is far from being workable outside demos.


It's doing too much or not enough.
Ie, unless I'm missing something :

- It's doesn't list all the materials in the scene, even less only the 
textures/shaders/SG (something really needed)
- Graphing what you want is like throwing a dice that doesn't have the 
number you bet on.

- When it does, it graph half the scene with it.
- It doesn't show basic connections like outMesh->inMesh in any mode, 
and the connection editor is still required for any task.



After 10 years, I still amazed about how Maya can't do the most basics 
things possible, and have the same bugs for years.


ie. object sets stop showing content in some (not rare) occasions.
The color picker reset the color if you don't click "done" before 
closing the editor (new bug from 2011).


Actually, the color picker, all by itself, has so many user interface 
bugs or missing features that you feel the need to bang your head each 
time you open it.




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Gaël Honorez > wrote:



You have to open the hypershade, and graph the sphere.

Then you  will get a awfully large network that is not humanely
readable.

So you will open the Node Editor, graph the sphere, and get a
nicer graph in a interface that doesn't allow to do everything you
need to do, but you will learn what to open in what case with time.

Here you will see that the polySphere operator is still there.
Click on it, and edit the subdivision.

Why isn't that available after nCloth is applied? Nobody knows,
you don't ask these questions when using maya. Or you go crazy
very fast.

It's not the "programming DCC" because it's flexible, it's the
"programming DCC" because you have will have your shelves full of
mel scripts to do simple things very rapidly :)




On 19/03/2014 10:32, Alastair Hearsum wrote:


Folks

 Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had
a little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere
and spin round it.

 Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my
comments in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts
me in quite a good position to appraise the software at a certain
level. Here is an example of the trouble I'm having that may
bring a smile to people's faces. But first just a couple of more
sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to bill myself as
the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers and
thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting
on a big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not
true. I do have a degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and
physics at university and programmed extensively in Lisp in my
first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:

*I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a
sphere after I have applied n-cloth to it!*

 Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many
experienced by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its
symptomatic of the all encompassing interface workflow issues
that Maya has that I think are really fundamental problems and
more important in some ways than headline large features.
 Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that point
and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out
but I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain
what the procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.

 So there you have it. Is it me.?

 Alastair

-- 
Alastair Hearsum

Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182 
glassworks.co.uk 
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at
glassworks.co.uk 
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered
office 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration
number: 86729)
Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged,
private and confidential and are intended solely for the stated
recipient(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of
the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Company.
If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have
received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination,
forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly
prohibited. If this transmission is received in erro

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Emilio Hernandez

Ohh you really don't have to worry.  Maya has a single state of the art
button solution!

Send to Softimage ->

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.

2014-03-19 4:23 GMT-06:00 Martin Contel :

> Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users who have never
> tried something else don't know that the grass was greener on the other
> side.
>
> Saludetes!
>
> --
> Martin Contel
> Square Enix (Visual Works)
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez wrote:
>
>> I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
>> curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:
>>
>> *Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene because
>> they are not referenced and there has been topology, shader  changes
>> (objects are called the same)
>> *Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and done :)
>> *Maya use*r:  . what?
>> *Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
>> *Maya Use*r: not possible.
>> *Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
>> *Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character by
>> character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will re-assign
>> all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other 5 render
>> scenes!
>> *Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are
>> staying late?
>> 
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>>>
  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the
 cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
 nests.

 Sent from my Windows Phone
  --
 From: Alastair Hearsum 
 Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM

 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
 Subject: A confession

  Folks

  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
 little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
 round it.

  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments
 in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
 position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
 the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
 just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
 bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
 and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
 big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
 degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
 programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:

  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
 after I have applied n-cloth to it!*

  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced
 by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the
 all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
 really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
 large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
 point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
 I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
 procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.

  So there you have it. Is it me.?

  Alastair

  --
 Alastair Hearsum
 Head of 3d
 [image: GLASSWORKS]
 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
 London
 W1F 9NP
 +44 (0)20 7434 1182
 glassworks.co.uk 
 Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at
 glassworks.co.uk
 (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office
 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
 Please consider the environment before you print this email.
 DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged,
 private and confidential and are intended solely for the stated
 recipient(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the
 author and do not necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are
 not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail
 in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying
 of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in
 error please kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from
 your system.

>>>
>>>
>>
>

RE: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Neil Kidney

All I hear is how shit Maya is. surely it does some things well? The
headline features like nCloth etc. [admittedly I don't know what the etc is]
are meant to be pretty decent, what about low level [but essential]
functionality like the stuff listed below? What would be an eye opener when
comparing it to XSI?
 
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jacob Gonzalez
Sent: 19 March 2014 10:18
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession
 
I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:
 
Maya user: I need to replace all the characters in my scene because they are
not referenced and there has been topology, shader  changes (objects are
called the same)
Me: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and done :)
Maya user:  . what? 
Me: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
Maya User: not possible.
Me : Wow! what are you going to do.
Maya User: I will bring the characters one by one . And character by
character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will re-assign
all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other 5 render
scenes!
Me: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are staying
late? 

 
J
 
 
 
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling
 wrote:
Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
 
On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the
cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
nests. 

Sent from my Windows Phone
  _  

From: Alastair Hearsum  
Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: A confession
Folks
 Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a little
poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin round it. 
 Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments in
some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
 I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere after I
have applied n-cloth to it!
 Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced by
people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the all
encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are really
fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline large
features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that point
and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but I had
already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the procedure was
and I followed what he was doing at the time.
 So there you have it. Is it me.?
 Alastair
-- 
Alastair Hearsum 
Head of 3d 
 GLASSWORKS  
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182  
glassworks.co.uk   
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk 
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729) 
Please consider the environment before you print this email. 
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and
confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views
or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be
advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use,
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly
prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return
it to the sender and delete this message from your system.

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Ivan Vasiljevic

Oooh and isn't this one of the biggest PITA , talking to Maya users who
actually never tried SI...
Common' if you haven't tried how can you now what's better

Ivan

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Martin Contel wrote:

> Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users who have never
> tried something else don't know that the grass was greener on the other
> side.
>
> Saludetes!
>
> --
> Martin Contel
> Square Enix (Visual Works)
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez wrote:
>
>> I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
>> curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:
>>
>> *Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene because
>> they are not referenced and there has been topology, shader  changes
>> (objects are called the same)
>> *Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and done :)
>> *Maya use*r:  . what?
>> *Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
>> *Maya Use*r: not possible.
>> *Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
>> *Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character by
>> character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will re-assign
>> all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other 5 render
>> scenes!
>> *Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are
>> staying late?
>> 
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>>>
  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but the
 cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
 nests.

 Sent from my Windows Phone
  --
 From: Alastair Hearsum 
 Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM

 To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
 Subject: A confession

  Folks

  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
 little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
 round it.

  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments
 in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a good
 position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example of
 the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
 just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
 bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all fingers
 and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
 big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have a
 degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
 programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:

  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
 after I have applied n-cloth to it!*

  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced
 by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the
 all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
 really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
 large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
 point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out but
 I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
 procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.

  So there you have it. Is it me.?

  Alastair

  --
 Alastair Hearsum
 Head of 3d
 [image: GLASSWORKS]
 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
 London
 W1F 9NP
 +44 (0)20 7434 1182
 glassworks.co.uk 
 Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at
 glassworks.co.uk
 (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office
 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
 Please consider the environment before you print this email.
 DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged,
 private and confidential and are intended solely for the stated
 recipient(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the
 author and do not necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are
 not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail
 in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying
 of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in
 error please kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from
 your system.

>>>
>>>
>>
>

-- 
Ivan Vasiljevic
-
L

ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

Looking through the everyone's top 5 features, ICE was in about 95%. We all
know it's the stand-out feature of Soft, though I know there are many more.

*So the question still remains, when will Autodesk deliver an equivalent
ICE system in Maya, that provides the features we have in Softimage TODAY?*

If this has been answered in another thread, I do apologise as it's
difficult to keep track.

Cheers
Chris

Re: A confession

"my other 5 render scenes"

this was the bit that shocked my the most, do you still need to break scene
per passes?


On 19 March 2014 10:29, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> Ohh you really don't have to worry.  Maya has a single state of the art
> button solution!
>
> Send to Softimage ->
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-19 4:23 GMT-06:00 Martin Contel :
>
> Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users who have never
>> tried something else don't know that the grass was greener on the other
>> side.
>>
>> Saludetes!
>>
>> --
>> Martin Contel
>> Square Enix (Visual Works)
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>>> I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
>>> curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:
>>>
>>> *Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene because
>>> they are not referenced and there has been topology, shader  changes
>>> (objects are called the same)
>>> *Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and done
>>> :)
>>> *Maya use*r:  . what?
>>> *Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
>>> *Maya Use*r: not possible.
>>> *Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
>>> *Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character by
>>> character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will re-assign
>>> all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other 5 render
>>> scenes!
>>> *Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are
>>> staying late?
>>> 
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P


 On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:

>  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but
> the cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny birds
> nests.
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
>  --
> From: Alastair Hearsum 
> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
>
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: A confession
>
>  Folks
>
>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
> round it.
>
>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my comments
> in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in quite a 
> good
> position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here is an example 
> of
> the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's faces. But first
> just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to
> bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all 
> fingers
> and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken down car waiting on a
> big strong man to help her out. The truth is that its not true. I do have 
> a
> degree in Fine Art but I also studied maths and physics at university and
> programmed extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>
>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
> after I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>
>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many experienced
> by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its symptomatic of the
> all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya has that I think are
> really fundamental problems and more important in some ways than headline
> large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of glasses of wine by that
> point and it was a casual , before bedtime attempt to try something out 
> but
> I had already twice asked my colleague at work to explain what the
> procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the time.
>
>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>
>  Alastair
>
>  --
> Alastair Hearsum
> Head of 3d
> [image: GLASSWORKS]
> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
> London
> W1F 9NP
> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
> glassworks.co.uk 
> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at
> glassworks.co.uk
> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office
> 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged,
> private and confidential and are intended solely for the stated
> recipient(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the
> author and do not necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are
> not the intende

Re: A confession

he probably meant 5 other shots right?


On 19 March 2014 10:40, Cristobal Infante  wrote:

> "my other 5 render scenes"
>
> this was the bit that shocked my the most, do you still need to break
> scene per passes?
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 10:29, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:
>
>> Ohh you really don't have to worry.  Maya has a single state of the art
>> button solution!
>>
>> Send to Softimage ->
>>
>> ---
>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-19 4:23 GMT-06:00 Martin Contel :
>>
>> Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users who have never
>>> tried something else don't know that the grass was greener on the other
>>> side.
>>>
>>> Saludetes!
>>>
>>> --
>>> Martin Contel
>>> Square Enix (Visual Works)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez wrote:
>>>
 I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
 curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:

 *Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene because
 they are not referenced and there has been topology, shader  changes
 (objects are called the same)
 *Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and done
 :)
 *Maya use*r:  . what?
 *Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
 *Maya Use*r: not possible.
 *Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
 *Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character by
 character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will re-assign
 all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other 5 render
 scenes!
 *Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are
 staying late?
 

 J




 On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
 sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>
>>  First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but
>> the cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny 
>> birds
>> nests.
>>
>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>  --
>> From: Alastair Hearsum 
>> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
>>
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: A confession
>>
>>  Folks
>>
>>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
>> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
>> round it.
>>
>>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my
>> comments in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in
>> quite a good position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here 
>> is
>> an example of the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's
>> faces. But first just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my
>> difficulty. I like to bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is
>> technically all fingers and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her
>> broken down car waiting on a big strong man to help her out. The truth is
>> that its not true. I do have a degree in Fine Art but I also studied 
>> maths
>> and physics at university and programmed extensively in Lisp in my first
>> job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>>
>>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
>> after I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>>
>>  Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many
>> experienced by people I work with who can and have used Maya. Its
>> symptomatic of the all encompassing interface workflow issues that Maya 
>> has
>> that I think are really fundamental problems and more important in some
>> ways than headline large features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of
>> glasses of wine by that point and it was a casual , before bedtime 
>> attempt
>> to try something out but I had already twice asked my colleague at work 
>> to
>> explain what the procedure was and I followed what he was doing at the 
>> time.
>>
>>  So there you have it. Is it me.?
>>
>>  Alastair
>>
>>  --
>> Alastair Hearsum
>> Head of 3d
>> [image: GLASSWORKS]
>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>> London
>> W1F 9NP
>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>> glassworks.co.uk 
>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at
>> glassworks.co.uk
>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered
>> office 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number:
>> 86729)
>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly pr

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Chris Gardner

at some stage of the job, maya's render layers *will* break. the
probability of which increases rapidly the more you use referencing. and
then you'll probably be splitting scenes per pass.

ended up writing my own system that doesn't break. 'cos that's the maya
way, isn't it? there's a f**king script to do that.

cheers,
chrisg

On 19 March 2014 21:40, Cristobal Infante  wrote:

> this was the bit that shocked my the most, do you still need to break
> scene per passes?

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

Never?! Maya is so mixed bag of good and bad choices that I don't see how
would it fit with Ice. Look at Hypershade and this other shading editor. I
don't think it will ever be that useful and easy to use workflow-wise as it
is in SI.

Almost 99% of my scenes have some reference or contribution in ICE. It is
so useful for everything. Honestly, I don't remember one where there isn't
one.

Artur


2014-03-19 11:38 GMT+01:00 Chris Marshall :

> Looking through the everyone's top 5 features, ICE was in about 95%. We
> all know it's the stand-out feature of Soft, though I know there are many
> more.
>
> *So the question still remains, when will Autodesk deliver an equivalent
> ICE system in Maya, that provides the features we have in Softimage TODAY?*
>
> If this has been answered in another thread, I do apologise as it's
> difficult to keep track.
>
> Cheers
> Chris
>
>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Siew Yi Liang


(slinks back into room)

Hi Gael:

AFAIK the node editor is not a hypershade replacement. But I agree the 
disconnect in the node editor UI/hypergraph/hypershade/(UBERMENSCH?) is 
a little annoying too. :)


Anyway, as far as listing all materials in the scene (since I really 
hate working with the hypershade now ever since I got used to the NE), 
what I do is run the following quickie script:


   sel = mc.ls(typ='shadingEngine')

   a = mc.select(sel, ne=True)

Which helps select all shadingEngines nodes in the scene. You can then 
graph the inputs to those nodes in the node editor to instantly get your 
materials listed out in the editor without having to pick them out via 
the hypershade :D


BTW the node editor CAN show outMeshes to inMeshes...in display, you can 
choose to display all shapes and transforms...also check that you're 
graphing both inputs and outputs. And yes, again the UI icons are not 
really helping much in this regard with being clear as to what their 
functions actually are. :P


I've never had any issues with graphing i/o connections, though, but I 
could try to help troubleshoot when I'm free if you're having problems 
with specific cases, I know the NE is kind of wonky at times. I'm on 
2013/2014 as well.


(slinks away)

Yours sincerely,
Siew Yi Liang

On 3/19/2014 3:20 AM, Gaël Honorez wrote:

On 19/03/2014 10:51, Ivan Vasiljevic wrote:

You should go with something more simpler for start:

Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened 
in SI.

Since hypershade is passe


Is it?

I'm still using 2013, but it's almost the same in 2014 : The node 
editor is far from being workable outside demos.


It's doing too much or not enough.
Ie, unless I'm missing something :

- It's doesn't list all the materials in the scene, even less only the 
textures/shaders/SG (something really needed)
- Graphing what you want is like throwing a dice that doesn't have the 
number you bet on.

- When it does, it graph half the scene with it.
- It doesn't show basic connections like outMesh->inMesh in any mode, 
and the connection editor is still required for any task.



After 10 years, I still amazed about how Maya can't do the most basics 
things possible, and have the same bugs for years.


ie. object sets stop showing content in some (not rare) occasions.
The color picker reset the color if you don't click "done" before 
closing the editor (new bug from 2011).


Actually, the color picker, all by itself, has so many user interface 
bugs or missing features that you feel the need to bang your head each 
time you open it.




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Gaël Honorez > wrote:



You have to open the hypershade, and graph the sphere.

Then you  will get a awfully large network that is not humanely
readable.

So you will open the Node Editor, graph the sphere, and get a
nicer graph in a interface that doesn't allow to do everything
you need to do, but you will learn what to open in what case with
time.

Here you will see that the polySphere operator is still there.
Click on it, and edit the subdivision.

Why isn't that available after nCloth is applied? Nobody knows,
you don't ask these questions when using maya. Or you go crazy
very fast.

It's not the "programming DCC" because it's flexible, it's the
"programming DCC" because you have will have your shelves full of
mel scripts to do simple things very rapidly :)




On 19/03/2014 10:32, Alastair Hearsum wrote:


Folks

 Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've
had a little poke every now and again but no more than make a
sphere and spin round it.

 Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my
comments in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it
puts me in quite a good position to appraise the software at a
certain level. Here is an example of the trouble I'm having that
may bring a smile to people's faces. But first just a couple of
more sentences before I reveal my difficulty. I like to bill
myself as the sensitive artist/animator who is technically all
fingers and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her broken
down car waiting on a big strong man to help her out. The truth
is that its not true. I do have a degree in Fine Art but I also
studied maths and physics at university and programmed
extensively in Lisp in my first job. So I'm not stupid BUT:

*I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a
sphere after I have applied n-cloth to it!*

 Isn't that incredible?  Its one example plucked from many
experienced by people I work with who can and have used Maya.
Its symptomatic of the all encompassing interface workflow
issues that Maya has that I think are really fundamental
problems and more important in some ways than headline large
features.  Admittedly I had had a couple of gla

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

My point exactly! If 95% of Softimage users use ICE almost daily, surely
Autodesk need to answer this question? When will we have this crucial
functionality available in an alternative Autodesk product?


On 19 March 2014 10:53, Artur Woźniak  wrote:

> Never?! Maya is so mixed bag of good and bad choices that I don't see how
> would it fit with Ice. Look at Hypershade and this other shading editor. I
> don't think it will ever be that useful and easy to use workflow-wise as it
> is in SI.
>
> Almost 99% of my scenes have some reference or contribution in ICE. It is
> so useful for everything. Honestly, I don't remember one where there isn't
> one.
>
> Artur
>
>
> 2014-03-19 11:38 GMT+01:00 Chris Marshall :
>
> Looking through the everyone's top 5 features, ICE was in about 95%. We
>> all know it's the stand-out feature of Soft, though I know there are many
>> more.
>>
>> *So the question still remains, when will Autodesk deliver an equivalent
>> ICE system in Maya, that provides the features we have in Softimage TODAY?*
>>
>> If this has been answered in another thread, I do apologise as it's
>> difficult to keep track.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Chris
>>
>>
>


-- 

Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Siew Yi Liang


Hi Cristobal:

Not necessarily: you can actually reference render layers into scenes 
AFAIK, which is what I'm doing with my student film. Render layers 
themselves are buggier than a beehive, but by rendering via batch 
instead of through the GUI solves most of these issues. Well, mine, 
anyway. :P


However, if referencing workflow wasn't followed at the start, then 
yea...might be difficult/tedious to swap/propogate across scene files 
after that. The good thing is that it IS still possible to 
script/automate the process across scenes, most 
renderLayer/layerOverride functions are still exposed via MEL (although 
some are not, which I'm finding out to my dismay, but most of the 
commands I want exposed to Python are quite esoteric so I doubt most 
people will need them), so it's not impossible to do so...just very 
annoying. :P


Yours sincerely,
Siew Yi Liang

On 3/19/2014 3:41 AM, Cristobal Infante wrote:

he probably meant 5 other shots right?


On 19 March 2014 10:40, Cristobal Infante > wrote:


"my other 5 render scenes"

this was the bit that shocked my the most, do you still need to
break scene per passes?


On 19 March 2014 10:29, Emilio Hernandez mailto:emi...@e-roja.com>> wrote:

Ohh you really don't have to worry.  Maya has a single state
of the art button solution!

Send to Softimage ->

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-19 4:23 GMT-06:00 Martin Contel mailto:martin3d...@gmail.com>>:

Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users
who have never tried something else don't know that the
grass was greener on the other side.

Saludetes!

--
Martin Contel
Square Enix (Visual Works)


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez
mailto:jacobgo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago
(mainly driven by curiosity). It was to do with
rendering. It went something like this:

*Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in
my scene because they are not referenced and there has
been topology, shader  changes (objects are called the
same)
*Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match
Partitions and done :)
*Maya use*r:  . what?
*Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
*Maya Use*r: not possible.
*Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
*Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one .
And character by character, render layer by render
layer, object by object I will re-assign all the
relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my
other 5 render scenes!
*Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with
this. You are staying late?


J




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling
mailto:sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is
covered in bird shit :P


On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus
mailto:n...@altvfx.com>> wrote:

First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the
engine is powerful but the cockpit is a giant
birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny
birds nests.

Sent from my Windows Phone


From: Alastair Hearsum

Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: A confession

Folks

 Here is a confession. I've never used Maya!
Not really. I've had a little poke every now
and again but no more than make a sphere and
spin round it.

 Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish
the value of my comments in some eyes but I
think that , on the contrary, it puts me in
quite a good position to appraise the software
at a certain level. Here is an example of the
trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to
people's faces. But first

Re: Autodesk webinar

2014-03-19 Thread Nicolas Esposito

Hi Maurice,
Thanks again for the clarification on the Maya and Max game development
focus, its a bit clearer now.

I saw all the new features available in the 2015 release, some of them are
really interesting and probably suit my needs, but I have to test
everything properly before judging if Maya could be my replacement or not.

Anyway, since AD is showing off their new features and its doing the
webinars to clearify some aspect of the transition I would like to see
something specific related to the workflow transition between Softimage to
Maya.

Softimage vs Maya - Dorrito
Technique

Here Emilio Hernandez show us the same workflow in order to get the same
results.

What I would like to see is more videos from you showing using a workflow
inside Softimage "translated" to Maya, or using a different approach with
the same results.
This will help clarify ( for those who aren't familiar with Maya as a daily
base software, but in general to show how to get the same result inside
Maya ) wheter or not could use Maya as the main tool in replacement of
Softimage.

The example showed by Emilio is a case where Maya lacks the quick setup of
the technique, so showing the "How to" in Maya could be an incentive to
switch to Maya...
Of course I mean comparing both *good and bad* of Maya to Softimage, not
only where Maya is better than Softimage

Cheers


2014-03-18 19:34 GMT+01:00 Paul Griswold <
pgrisw...@fusiondigitalproductions.com>:

> Thanks Maurice,
>
> So the information I have today is - most of my work is done with
> Softimage and there is 0% chance it will be continued.
>
> Autodesk has a 99% failure rate internally with creating innovative
> products. (your words)
>
> Autodesk wants me to move to Maya, an old, outdated package that cannot do
> what I need now, requires significant work (scripts, plugins, etc.) to make
> usable, is not conducive to small shops or freelancers, and there is no
> promise that it will ever be able to do what Softimage can do right now.
>  Making that move not only moves me back to the junior level, but reduces
> my pay, lowers the quality of my work, and significantly hampers my ability
> to compete.
>
> Bifrost is being developed at a company with a 99% failure rate with
> creating innovative products.  Bifrost is not an ICE replacement and may
> never be one.
>
> And, apparently in this industry you should not have all your eggs in one
> basket.  Unfortunately Autodesk bought the goose laying the golden eggs and
> wrung it's neck.  Now there's no more eggs.  I also find it ironic that
> someone from ADSK just said we shouldn't have all our eggs in one basket,
> yet they want everyone to buy suites and are trying to emulate the Adobe
> model  Or was that just something you say because there's really no
> answer for what Autodesk has done?
>
> Yes, I think I can make a decision based on that information.
>
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Maurice Patel  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul, Adam
>> We do understand that people build their livelihoods on our software.
>> This is something we take seriously, although (with good reason)  you might
>> find it hard to believe right now. Every year we spend significant
>> resources maintaining legacy code so that the new features we add to our
>> products don't radically disrupt customers workflows. We really do try not
>> to take unnecessary risks with our software. And we have an incredibly long
>> track record  of developing software for the long term - one can just look
>> at AutoCAD and 3ds Max. Even acquisitions like Flame and Maya have
>> continued to be extensively developed at Autodesk as have other product
>> acquisitions.
>>
>> We have stated and are committed both to developing our core products and
>> to innovating. Our decision to focus on 3ds max and Maya was so we could
>> continue to do both adequately (not one or the other). We are a high tech
>> company so it wouldn't be realistic to expect us not to try to innovate
>> even if the risks are high. That does not mean that is all we do.
>>
>> I am not denying that Softimage customers are now facing some challenging
>> decisions. But several have said on the forum, and I would personally agree
>> with them, that in this industry - as in any high-tech industry - it can be
>> risky to have all your eggs in one basket, even if that means looking
>> outside of Autodesk (and there are some very interesting solutions out
>> there). Giants fall (look at SGI). We are not immune to that either.
>> Personally, I do not think that will happen, but no one at Autodesk will
>> ever make any explicit guarantees about the future. All I can say is make
>> your software decisions based on what you see today - anything else would
>> be, to a certain extent, vaporware and speculation, especially the farther
>> out you look.
>>
>> maurice
>>
>>
>> Maurice Patel
>> Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@l

Re: A confession

Ok, so besides all we can say about Maya, we can agree that the job
"MayaUser" was working on
was badly setup. Even in softimage it would be a bad idea not to reference
your assets.



On 19 March 2014 11:03, Siew Yi Liang  wrote:

>  Hi Cristobal:
>
> Not necessarily: you can actually reference render layers into scenes
> AFAIK, which is what I'm doing with my student film. Render layers
> themselves are buggier than a beehive, but by rendering via batch instead
> of through the GUI solves most of these issues. Well, mine, anyway. :P
>
> However, if referencing workflow wasn't followed at the start, then
> yea...might be difficult/tedious to swap/propogate across scene files after
> that. The good thing is that it IS still possible to script/automate the
> process across scenes, most renderLayer/layerOverride functions are still
> exposed via MEL (although some are not, which I'm finding out to my dismay,
> but most of the commands I want exposed to Python are quite esoteric so I
> doubt most people will need them), so it's not impossible to do so...just
> very annoying. :P
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Siew Yi Liang
>
> On 3/19/2014 3:41 AM, Cristobal Infante wrote:
>
> he probably meant 5 other shots right?
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 10:40, Cristobal Infante  wrote:
>
>> "my other 5 render scenes"
>>
>>  this was the bit that shocked my the most, do you still need to break
>> scene per passes?
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 10:29, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:
>>
>>>  Ohh you really don't have to worry.  Maya has a single state of the
>>> art button solution!
>>>
>>>  Send to Softimage ->
>>>
>>>  ---
>>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-19 4:23 GMT-06:00 Martin Contel :
>>>
>>>  Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users who have
 never tried something else don't know that the grass was greener on the
 other side.

  Saludetes!

  --
 Martin Contel
 Square Enix (Visual Works)


 On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez 
 wrote:

> I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
> curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:
>
>  *Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene
> because they are not referenced and there has been topology, shader
>  changes (objects are called the same)
> *Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and
> done :)
> *Maya use*r:  . what?
> *Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
> *Maya Use*r: not possible.
> *Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
> *Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character
> by character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will
> re-assign all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other
> 5 render scenes!
> *Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are
> staying late?
> 
>
>  J
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>>
>>
>>  On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>>
>>>   First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but
>>> the cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny 
>>> birds
>>> nests.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>>   --
>>> From: Alastair Hearsum 
>>> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
>>>
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: A confession
>>>
>>> Folks
>>>
>>>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
>>> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
>>> round it.
>>>
>>>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my
>>> comments in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in
>>> quite a good position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here 
>>> is
>>> an example of the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's
>>> faces. But first just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my
>>> difficulty. I like to bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who 
>>> is
>>> technically all fingers and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her
>>> broken down car waiting on a big strong man to help her out. The truth 
>>> is
>>> that its not true. I do have a degree in Fine Art but I also studied 
>>> maths
>>> and physics at university and programmed extensively in Lisp in my first
>>> job. So I'm not stupid BUT:
>>>
>>>  *I'm on my third night trying to adjust the resolution of a sphere
>>> after I have applied n-cloth to it!*
>>>
>>>  Isn't that

Re: A confession

@ Cristobal

Yes, 5 other shots - No you don't have to split your shots into different
scenes (per pass) this days - is not that bad!

@ Neil

All I hear is how shit Maya is... surely it does some things well?

Agreed, I think Maya does have some good stuff. Ncloth is pretty good, and
although I don't like Maya's interface I love the fact that it's Qt based.
Very coo for integrating your custom layouts/toolbars.

But overall, I am of the opinion that moving to Maya from Soft means taking
a step back.

J


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Siew Yi Liang  wrote:

>  Hi Cristobal:
>
> Not necessarily: you can actually reference render layers into scenes
> AFAIK, which is what I'm doing with my student film. Render layers
> themselves are buggier than a beehive, but by rendering via batch instead
> of through the GUI solves most of these issues. Well, mine, anyway. :P
>
> However, if referencing workflow wasn't followed at the start, then
> yea...might be difficult/tedious to swap/propogate across scene files after
> that. The good thing is that it IS still possible to script/automate the
> process across scenes, most renderLayer/layerOverride functions are still
> exposed via MEL (although some are not, which I'm finding out to my dismay,
> but most of the commands I want exposed to Python are quite esoteric so I
> doubt most people will need them), so it's not impossible to do so...just
> very annoying. :P
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Siew Yi Liang
>
> On 3/19/2014 3:41 AM, Cristobal Infante wrote:
>
> he probably meant 5 other shots right?
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 10:40, Cristobal Infante  wrote:
>
>> "my other 5 render scenes"
>>
>>  this was the bit that shocked my the most, do you still need to break
>> scene per passes?
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 10:29, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:
>>
>>>  Ohh you really don't have to worry.  Maya has a single state of the
>>> art button solution!
>>>
>>>  Send to Softimage ->
>>>
>>>  ---
>>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-19 4:23 GMT-06:00 Martin Contel :
>>>
>>>  Sad but true, Jacob... The worst thing is that Maya users who have
 never tried something else don't know that the grass was greener on the
 other side.

  Saludetes!

  --
 Martin Contel
 Square Enix (Visual Works)


 On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Jacob Gonzalez 
 wrote:

> I had a very short expierence with Maya a while ago (mainly driven by
> curiosity). It was to do with rendering. It went something like this:
>
>  *Maya user*: I need to replace all the characters in my scene
> because they are not referenced and there has been topology, shader
>  changes (objects are called the same)
> *Me*: That's cool. Bring the new characters, match Partitions and
> done :)
> *Maya use*r:  . what?
> *Me*: Match Render Layer Overrides ?
> *Maya Use*r: not possible.
> *Me *: Wow! what are you going to do.
> *Maya User*: I will bring the characters one by one . And character
> by character, render layer by render layer, object by object I will
> re-assign all the relevant overrides or changes made in  this and my other
> 5 render scenes!
> *Me*: Ok. Let me know when you are done with this. You are
> staying late?
> 
>
>  J
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Apt analogy, but you omitted that each nest is covered in bird shit :P
>>
>>
>>  On 19 March 2014 09:54, Nick Angus  wrote:
>>
>>>   First rule of Maya: forget ergonomics, the engine is powerful but
>>> the cockpit is a giant birds nest constructed from thousands of tiny 
>>> birds
>>> nests.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>>   --
>>> From: Alastair Hearsum 
>>> Sent: 19/03/2014 7:33 PM
>>>
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: A confession
>>>
>>> Folks
>>>
>>>  Here is a confession. I've never used Maya! Not really. I've had a
>>> little poke every now and again but no more than make a sphere and spin
>>> round it.
>>>
>>>  Now, the lack of Maya knowledge may diminish the value of my
>>> comments in some eyes but I think that , on the contrary, it puts me in
>>> quite a good position to appraise the software at a certain level. Here 
>>> is
>>> an example of the trouble I'm having that may bring a smile to people's
>>> faces. But first just a couple of more sentences before I reveal my
>>> difficulty. I like to bill myself as the sensitive artist/animator who 
>>> is
>>> technically all fingers and thumbs, like the woman by the side of her
>>> broken down car waiting on a big strong man to help her out. The truth 
>>> is
>>> that its not true. I d

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

When I really think about it, I feel little panic inside, because I'll
always look for 8, alt+9 shortcuts for my start of a working day. Lack of
those two and it's functionality is like loosing an arm to me.

Artur


2014-03-19 12:01 GMT+01:00 Chris Marshall :

> My point exactly! If 95% of Softimage users use ICE almost daily, surely
> Autodesk need to answer this question? When will we have this crucial
> functionality available in an alternative Autodesk product?
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 10:53, Artur Woźniak  wrote:
>
>> Never?! Maya is so mixed bag of good and bad choices that I don't see how
>> would it fit with Ice. Look at Hypershade and this other shading editor. I
>> don't think it will ever be that useful and easy to use workflow-wise as it
>> is in SI.
>>
>> Almost 99% of my scenes have some reference or contribution in ICE. It is
>> so useful for everything. Honestly, I don't remember one where there isn't
>> one.
>>
>> Artur
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-19 11:38 GMT+01:00 Chris Marshall :
>>
>>  Looking through the everyone's top 5 features, ICE was in about 95%. We
>>> all know it's the stand-out feature of Soft, though I know there are many
>>> more.
>>>
>>> *So the question still remains, when will Autodesk deliver an equivalent
>>> ICE system in Maya, that provides the features we have in Softimage TODAY?*
>>>
>>> If this has been answered in another thread, I do apologise as it's
>>> difficult to keep track.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Marshall
> Mint Motion Limited
> 029 20 37 27 57
> 07730 533 115
> www.mintmotion.co.uk
>
>

Re: A confession

You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what SI
Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala
Softimage, you can do it with something like this:

// MEL
//-
window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
frameLayout -labelVisible false;
string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
showWindow;
//-

Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.

Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing
basic scripting may be critical.

Martin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic wrote:

> You should go with something more simpler for start:
>
> Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in
> SI.
>

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

2014-03-19 Thread Oscar Juarez

That happens every day to me, pressing 8 and going inside paint mode.


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Artur Woźniak wrote:

> When I really think about it, I feel little panic inside, because I'll
> always look for 8, alt+9 shortcuts for my start of a working day. Lack of
> those two and it's functionality is like loosing an arm to me.
>
> Artur
>
>
> 2014-03-19 12:01 GMT+01:00 Chris Marshall :
>
> My point exactly! If 95% of Softimage users use ICE almost daily, surely
>> Autodesk need to answer this question? When will we have this crucial
>> functionality available in an alternative Autodesk product?
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 10:53, Artur Woźniak  wrote:
>>
>>> Never?! Maya is so mixed bag of good and bad choices that I don't see
>>> how would it fit with Ice. Look at Hypershade and this other shading
>>> editor. I don't think it will ever be that useful and easy to use
>>> workflow-wise as it is in SI.
>>>
>>> Almost 99% of my scenes have some reference or contribution in ICE. It
>>> is so useful for everything. Honestly, I don't remember one where there
>>> isn't one.
>>>
>>> Artur
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-19 11:38 GMT+01:00 Chris Marshall :
>>>
>>>  Looking through the everyone's top 5 features, ICE was in about 95%.
 We all know it's the stand-out feature of Soft, though I know there are
 many more.

 *So the question still remains, when will Autodesk deliver an
 equivalent ICE system in Maya, that provides the features we have in
 Softimage TODAY?*

 If this has been answered in another thread, I do apologise as it's
 difficult to keep track.

 Cheers
 Chris


>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Chris Marshall
>> Mint Motion Limited
>> 029 20 37 27 57
>> 07730 533 115
>> www.mintmotion.co.uk
>>
>>
>

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we need
an ICE alternative.

As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.

Martin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:01 PM, Chris Marshall
wrote:

> My point exactly! If 95% of Softimage users use ICE almost daily, surely
> Autodesk need to answer this question? When will we have this crucial
> functionality available in an alternative Autodesk product?
>
>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

Have a look at the feature list of mudbox and motion builder (big shame as this 
tool is very very good)

Totally and utterly abandoned. 

If that is caring about your customers this is not the way to show it.


Jb

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Mar 2014, at 08:39, Daniel Sweeney  wrote:
> 
> Not really impressed by these releases. But autodesk releases have not 
> impressed for a while. Stagnant with A bit of bolted on tech. So OK stuff in 
> Maya but once again seems like all bolt ons.
> 
> I think max is next on the chopping board or they will just let's it sit and 
> every release will get less and less. 
> 
>> On Mar 19, 2014 8:17 AM, "Jordi Bares"  wrote:
>> Its really nice research, and simple to implement, this is the kind of tool 
>> that will cost you peanuts to integrate in max and Softimage isn't it?
>> 
>> I will certainly read the paper properly.
>> 
>> Jb
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On 19 Mar 2014, at 02:31, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paulo César Duarte
>> >  wrote:
>> >> Agree, and the geodesic voxel binding skin algorithm, Blender already have
>> >> at least 1 year ago or more. In other words, no innovation, only
>> >> implementation of existing tools.
>> >
>> > Got a link to that?  Geodesic voxel binding is research by Autodesk.
>> >

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

lol, I do it all the time when I'm using a Maya in default mode.

That's one of the shortcuts you need to re-assign asap.

Another one is Ctrl+Q.

Martin


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Oscar Juarez wrote:

> That happens every day to me, pressing 8 and going inside paint mode.
>
>
>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

I thought Bifrost was something more than just a node striped Naiad
shuffled in Maya . Is it more or just a fluid solver? I know "just" may not
give its justice but still.

Artur


2014-03-19 12:16 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares :

> Have a look at the feature list of mudbox and motion builder (big shame as
> this tool is very very good)
>
> Totally and utterly abandoned.
>
> If that is caring about your customers this is not the way to show it.
>
>
> Jb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 19 Mar 2014, at 08:39, Daniel Sweeney  wrote:
>
> Not really impressed by these releases. But autodesk releases have not
> impressed for a while. Stagnant with A bit of bolted on tech. So OK stuff
> in Maya but once again seems like all bolt ons.
>
> I think max is next on the chopping board or they will just let's it sit
> and every release will get less and less.
> On Mar 19, 2014 8:17 AM, "Jordi Bares"  wrote:
>
>> Its really nice research, and simple to implement, this is the kind of
>> tool that will cost you peanuts to integrate in max and Softimage isn't it?
>>
>> I will certainly read the paper properly.
>>
>> Jb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 19 Mar 2014, at 02:31, Luc-Eric Rousseau 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paulo César Duarte
>> >  wrote:
>> >> Agree, and the geodesic voxel binding skin algorithm, Blender already
>> have
>> >> at least 1 year ago or more. In other words, no innovation, only
>> >> implementation of existing tools.
>> >
>> > Got a link to that?  Geodesic voxel binding is research by Autodesk.
>> >
>>
>>

RE: A confession

I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo) that 
many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply can't go 
into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else. This is no 
different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what SI 
Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala 
Softimage, you can do it with something like this:

// MEL
//-
window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
frameLayout -labelVisible false;
string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
showWindow;
//-

Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.

Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing basic 
scripting may be critical.

Martin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic 
mailto:klebed...@gmail.com>> wrote:
You should go with something more simpler for start:
Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in SI.

<>

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

OK but about 95% put it down as a top 5 feature, so that's pretty darn
crucial!
The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine not having access to
it, and it scares me.

On 19 March 2014 11:24, Martin Yara  wrote:

> I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we need
> an ICE alternative.
>
> As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.
>
> Martin
>

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

The S key THE S KEY !!!


On 19 March 2014 11:32, Chris Marshall  wrote:

> OK but about 95% put it down as a top 5 feature, so that's pretty darn
> crucial!
> The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine not having access to
> it, and it scares me.
>
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 11:24, Martin Yara  wrote:
>
>> I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we need
>> an ICE alternative.
>>
>> As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
>
>

Re: A confession

The point I was trying to make is that not having partitions makes
rendering in Maya much more difficult and less efficient than rendering in
XSI. This is one the features I am put off by when switching to Maya.

 Agreed,  different 3D applications behave in different manners, and so you
just need to change your way of working to adapt to it. Then it's not as
horrible as you thought it was at first.But in the case of partitions I
haven't come across any Maya user who had a workaround or method which was
even close to XSI's built in features. And I have worked 4 years on a Maya
/ XSI based post house.

J

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Graham Bell wrote:

> I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo)
> that many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply
> can't go into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else.
> This is no different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
> Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: A confession
>
> You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what
> SI Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala
> Softimage, you can do it with something like this:
>
> // MEL
> //-
> window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
> frameLayout -labelVisible false;
> string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
> showWindow;
> //-
>
> Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.
>
> Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing
> basic scripting may be critical.
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic  > wrote:
> You should go with something more simpler for start:
> Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in
> SI.
>
>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

It will probably take years to be functional. Ironically by the time it is
done, there will probably be a much better solution out there.


On 19 March 2014 11:30, Artur Woźniak  wrote:

> I thought Bifrost was something more than just a node striped Naiad
> shuffled in Maya . Is it more or just a fluid solver? I know "just" may not
> give its justice but still.
>
> Artur
>
>
> 2014-03-19 12:16 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares :
>
> Have a look at the feature list of mudbox and motion builder (big shame as
>> this tool is very very good)
>>
>> Totally and utterly abandoned.
>>
>> If that is caring about your customers this is not the way to show it.
>>
>>
>> Jb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 08:39, Daniel Sweeney  wrote:
>>
>> Not really impressed by these releases. But autodesk releases have not
>> impressed for a while. Stagnant with A bit of bolted on tech. So OK stuff
>> in Maya but once again seems like all bolt ons.
>>
>> I think max is next on the chopping board or they will just let's it sit
>> and every release will get less and less.
>> On Mar 19, 2014 8:17 AM, "Jordi Bares"  wrote:
>>
>>> Its really nice research, and simple to implement, this is the kind of
>>> tool that will cost you peanuts to integrate in max and Softimage isn't it?
>>>
>>> I will certainly read the paper properly.
>>>
>>> Jb
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On 19 Mar 2014, at 02:31, Luc-Eric Rousseau 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paulo César Duarte
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >> Agree, and the geodesic voxel binding skin algorithm, Blender already
>>> have
>>> >> at least 1 year ago or more. In other words, no innovation, only
>>> >> implementation of existing tools.
>>> >
>>> > Got a link to that?  Geodesic voxel binding is research by Autodesk.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

2014-03-19 Thread Paul Griswold

Not to add to the conspiracy theories here, BUT. could it be the plan
of Autodesk all along was to give M&E a try, but not enough to succeed?
 The reason being this - they want to emulate the IBM model.  Buy patents &
intellectual property, then collect royalties.

It requires no R&D, no developers, no support team, nothing but lawyers and
accountants.

Think of all the tech Autodesk has bought over the years.  So they murder
Softimage, and give less and less attention to their products each year,
eventually killing Max, Mudbox, Motion Builder, etc.  And finally the
proclaim Bifrost a failure, and retire Maya.

IBM is still around because they are a patent machine, not because they
make computers.

-Paul

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Artur Woźniak  wrote:

> I thought Bifrost was something more than just a node striped Naiad
> shuffled in Maya . Is it more or just a fluid solver? I know "just" may not
> give its justice but still.
>
> Artur
>
>
> 2014-03-19 12:16 GMT+01:00 Jordi Bares :
>
> Have a look at the feature list of mudbox and motion builder (big shame as
>> this tool is very very good)
>>
>> Totally and utterly abandoned.
>>
>> If that is caring about your customers this is not the way to show it.
>>
>>
>> Jb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 19 Mar 2014, at 08:39, Daniel Sweeney  wrote:
>>
>> Not really impressed by these releases. But autodesk releases have not
>> impressed for a while. Stagnant with A bit of bolted on tech. So OK stuff
>> in Maya but once again seems like all bolt ons.
>>
>> I think max is next on the chopping board or they will just let's it sit
>> and every release will get less and less.
>> On Mar 19, 2014 8:17 AM, "Jordi Bares"  wrote:
>>
>>> Its really nice research, and simple to implement, this is the kind of
>>> tool that will cost you peanuts to integrate in max and Softimage isn't it?
>>>
>>> I will certainly read the paper properly.
>>>
>>> Jb
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On 19 Mar 2014, at 02:31, Luc-Eric Rousseau 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paulo César Duarte
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >> Agree, and the geodesic voxel binding skin algorithm, Blender already
>>> have
>>> >> at least 1 year ago or more. In other words, no innovation, only
>>> >> implementation of existing tools.
>>> >
>>> > Got a link to that?  Geodesic voxel binding is research by Autodesk.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>

Re: Digital Golem : Brillant and beautiful

2014-03-19 Thread Jean-Louis Billard

Thanks for the kind comments.

Yes all in Softimage, naturally!

Our pipeline is Softimage->Arnold->Nuke and despite all the turmoil I can tell 
you I have no intention whatsoever to change that in the near future.
It works, it works well, and nothing else right now can touch it.

So Autodesk can shove their “innovation” right back up their collective arse 
and choke on it -- as far as I’m concerned they’ve just killed a member of my 
family.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis

On 19 Mar 2014, at 04:39, Tenshi Sama  wrote:

> 
> Nice! All in Softimage?
> 
> 
> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Francisco Criado  
> wrote:
> Excelent work, so nice!
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, olivier jeannel  wrote:
> https://vimeo.com/groups/ice/videos/89426397
> 
> Kudos to Digital Golem !
>

Re: Autodesk webinar

Autodesk announces Maya LT as "Game Development", but I they mean low-cost
portable / mobile phone / unity based games.

iPhone is the smartphone leader so you can't ignore it. Maya is the only of
the 3 big that has an Apple version so it was the natural option to choose
to have a little brother to play with unity, even if the Maya Masterplan to
make it rule the world didn't existed (but it did).

Maya is probably the most used application in the game industry. So the
idea that Maya = Film/VFX and Max  = games isn't very accurate.

Martin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:12 AM, Adam Seeley  wrote:

> "Maya LT is meant to be a low cost alternative for low-budget indie game
> developers. Maya and 3ds Max are still meant to be the solutions for Games
> overall"
>
> I would imagine a 3ds max user would be concerned that  Maya & Maya LT
> would be bridged to become a full game developer tool, although Maya is
> actually supposed to be the Film/VFX solution.
>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Peter Agg

The way I see it, there are *things* that Maya is undoubtedly better at
than Soft (nCloth, muscles, fluid, the new modelling tools etc), it's just
the way it's all put together that's terrible. I never have many issues if
I have to jump into one of the many black boxes that's been shoved into the
system, but it makes me very glad that I'm not the generalist that has to
pull it all together!

There is some truth in 3D program relativism, and we'd all do well to
remember that when we jump into whatever package we find ourselves in. But
the annoyance I find when I try to use Modo/Houdini is a very different
beast to the frustration of using an out-of-the-box Maya.


On 19 March 2014 11:42, Jacob Gonzalez  wrote:

> The point I was trying to make is that not having partitions makes
> rendering in Maya much more difficult and less efficient than rendering in
> XSI. This is one the features I am put off by when switching to Maya.
>
>  Agreed,  different 3D applications behave in different manners, and so
> you just need to change your way of working to adapt to it. Then it's not
> as horrible as you thought it was at first.But in the case of partitions I
> haven't come across any Maya user who had a workaround or method which was
> even close to XSI's built in features. And I have worked 4 years on a Maya
> / XSI based post house.
>
> J
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Graham Bell wrote:
>
>> I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo)
>> that many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply
>> can't go into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else.
>> This is no different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.
>>
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
>> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>> Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: A confession
>>
>> You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what
>> SI Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala
>> Softimage, you can do it with something like this:
>>
>> // MEL
>> //-
>> window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
>> frameLayout -labelVisible false;
>> string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
>> showWindow;
>> //-
>>
>> Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.
>>
>> Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing
>> basic scripting may be critical.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic > > wrote:
>> You should go with something more simpler for start:
>> Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in
>> SI.
>>
>>
>

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

Since I jump back and forth between the two all the time, mostly as it applies 
to teaching, but also when I need to do nCloth or make something with PaintFX, 
I can't tell you how many times I have keyed things because I use the S key, 
and never remapped Softimage to use the alt key.
The only two concessions I ever made to Maya workflow were the space bar to 
maximize panels, and the 3 button mouse combo was put in Maya mode (too much 
muscle memory over all the years as a Maya user to give that up). So even after 
10 years as an SI user, I still can't break from using the S key in Maya at 
least once per session and it has F*CKED me so many times I can't even count. 
Even worse, by default, the S key in Maya sets keys on ALL attributes of the 
selected object. ALL OF THEM.

On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Sebastien Sterling  
wrote:

> The S key THE S KEY !!!
> 
> 
> On 19 March 2014 11:32, Chris Marshall  wrote:
> OK but about 95% put it down as a top 5 feature, so that's pretty darn 
> crucial!
> The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine not having access to it, 
> and it scares me.
> 
> 
> 
> On 19 March 2014 11:24, Martin Yara  wrote:
> I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we need an 
> ICE alternative. 
> 
> As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
>

RE: A confession

Maya has 'contribution maps' that you can create on layers, which are kinda the 
same as Soft's partitions. I'm not saying they're better (and I don't want to 
get into a debate) but that's the equivalent.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jacob Gonzalez
Sent: 19 March 2014 11:43
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

The point I was trying to make is that not having partitions makes rendering in 
Maya much more difficult and less efficient than rendering in XSI. This is one 
the features I am put off by when switching to Maya.

 Agreed,  different 3D applications behave in different manners, and so you 
just need to change your way of working to adapt to it. Then it's not as 
horrible as you thought it was at first.But in the case of partitions I haven't 
come across any Maya user who had a workaround or method which was even close 
to XSI's built in features. And I have worked 4 years on a Maya / XSI based 
post house.

J

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Graham Bell 
mailto:graham.b...@autodesk.com>> wrote:
I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo) that 
many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply can't go 
into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else. This is no 
different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]
 On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession
You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what SI 
Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala 
Softimage, you can do it with something like this:

// MEL
//-
window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
frameLayout -labelVisible false;
string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
showWindow;
//-

Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.

Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing basic 
scripting may be critical.

Martin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic 
mailto:klebed...@gmail.com>>>
 wrote:
You should go with something more simpler for start:
Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in SI.

<>

Re: Autodesk webinar

On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Sebastien Sterling
 wrote:
> "which selection tool is taking all of this screen real-estate?"
>
>
> Tool Settings, it's the tool settings panel, where they keep the soft
> selection options. which also doubles up as the settings bar for spesific
> functions like adding loops etc...

The setting bar for adding loops...  I don't know what is.  The tool
settings panel is way too huge, we know this I believe we will address
the general fatness of the attribute editor in Maya. However, you
shouldn't having that opened to work  Maya modelers don't normally
work with any windows.  To toggle proportional modeling, you'll press
and release the B key. To adjust the proportional radius, you'll press
and hold B - same as in XSI in this case.  For everything else, it is
in marking menus. (For example, hold W and LMB for the transform tool
menu, or Q for selection)  There shouldn't be anything you need in the
tool settings that isn't in the tools's marking menu

Re: Autodesk webinar

True it was unfinished, but XSI brought real value from day 1, sure, buggy and 
awkward at first but when I say the render tree, the mixer, the integration 
with mental ray, the weight painting it was a no brainer even if it was painful.

You could argue too that Maya 1 was also the same experience but nobody would 
question moving from Power Animator 7 to maya was rewarding, even if buggy and 
clearly unfinished.

Plus Softimage didn't force anyone to stop using it and kept going as much as 
possible so the users had an easy transition, only with 64bit there was an end 
to it but that was not long ago (may be 5 years?)

This has been probably the biggest fiasco in our industry, simple as that.. 
kill the wrong product, don't offer any serious alternative that can cover what 
we have, managed awfully and now that they release 2015 you see the work they 
have done in one year is absolutely underwhelming (other than the skinning) we 
were doing better with Naiad standalone, Realflow or Houdini two years ago than 
today.

Now look at the releases for the other packages (mud box, motion builder and 
max) and tell me you don't see what I see.

good luck guys.

Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com

On 19 Mar 2014, at 06:46, Andy Goehler  wrote:

> Moving from Softimage|3D to XSI 1.0 felt exactly the same ;-)
> 
> Andy
> 
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 23:23, Jordi Bares  wrote:
> 
>> … instead they threw FCPX to the table clearly unfinished, from the ground 
>> up amazing ideas but not finished and truly not to the standard of the 
>> industry.
>

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

Yeah, that sucks. Half of your viewport turns red.


2014-03-19 12:55 GMT+01:00 Perry Harovas :

> Since I jump back and forth between the two all the time, mostly as it
> applies to teaching, but also when I need to do nCloth or make something
> with PaintFX, I can't tell you how many times I have keyed things because I
> use the S key, and never remapped Softimage to use the alt key.
> The only two concessions I ever made to Maya workflow were the space bar
> to maximize panels, and the 3 button mouse combo was put in Maya mode (too
> much muscle memory over all the years as a Maya user to give that up). So
> even after 10 years as an SI user, I still can't break from using the S key
> in Maya at least once per session and it has F*CKED me so many times I
> can't even count. Even worse, by default, the S key in Maya sets keys on
> ALL attributes of the selected object. ALL OF THEM.
>
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The S key THE S KEY !!!
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 11:32, Chris Marshall  wrote:
>
>> OK but about 95% put it down as a top 5 feature, so that's pretty darn
>> crucial!
>> The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine not having access to
>> it, and it scares me.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 11:24, Martin Yara  wrote:
>>
>>> I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we
>>> need an ICE alternative.
>>>
>>> As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Ancient lurker's response to the current developments

2014-03-19 Thread Jason S





Hi Stefan, If I can criticize your criticism, 

It does bring-up a number of not so great things about some clearly
unfair behavior.

Yet the piece proposes a very "unconstructive" form of criticism

(just by the title itself, and the general tone),  

While becoming angry -can- be a good thing (if not essential) 
when faced with situations that can be seen as not right,
there should be a clear distinction between firmly voicing disapproval,
and sheer lashing out.
(the latter being well on the counter-productive side)

Calling people liars, incompetent or painting an entire organization as
a desease or cancer.. 

.. and you stated,
"It was also the very first time I saw professionals use amounts of
profanity on the list, in volume. "

And when speaking about the (very) partial reversal, 

"The latter only came about after violent outbursts from the
Softimage users, and rightly so."

I would argue that (thankfully) most criticism put forth here up-til
the reversal or otherwise, 
has been firm, respectful, thoughtful, fair and specific.  (for the
very large majority of the volume) 

Otherwise welcome back! :)




On 03/19/14 5:04, s...@animagic.net wrote:

  Hi All,
  
  
  Hi, I'm Stefan. Some of you may recognize my name, some of you
might not. I think I might be an ancient "lurker" on the list here
because I can't recall when last I posted anything to the list. I
suspect it might have been sometime in the early 90's. I could look it
up but I'd have to find some old archive somewhere in my backups. :-)
  
  
  The most recent events about Softimage, and now the outcry from
3ds max users about their "upgrade" along with many friends and old
colleagues I've been talking to in the past week inspired me to write
some of my thoughts down about what I see is happening and how I think
Autodesk has passed the point of no-return when it comes to their
position in the community (a large one which is still separated by
products and their users). It's SFW but be prepared for some harsh
paragraphs.
  
  
http://www.stefandidak.com/2014/03/autodesk-the-metastasizing-cancer-of-the-3d-world/
  
  
  Cheers,
  Stefan.

RE: Digital Golem : Brillant and beautiful

+1  this!

 

great work by the way JL

 

  _  

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Louis
Billard
Sent: 19 March 2014 11:51
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Digital Golem : Brillant and beautiful

 

Thanks for the kind comments.

 

Yes all in Softimage, naturally!

 

Our pipeline is Softimage->Arnold->Nuke and despite all the turmoil I can
tell you I have no intention whatsoever to change that in the near future.

It works, it works well, and nothing else right now can touch it.

 

So Autodesk can shove their "innovation" right back up their collective arse
and choke on it -- as far as I'm concerned they've just killed a member of
my family.

 

Cheers,

Jean-Louis

 

 

On 19 Mar 2014, at 04:39, Tenshi Sama  wrote:





 

Nice! All in Softimage?

 

On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Francisco Criado 
wrote:

Excelent work, so nice!



On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, olivier jeannel  wrote:

https://vimeo.com/groups/ice/videos/89426397

Kudos to Digital Golem !

Re: Digital Golem : Brillant and beautiful

2014-03-19 Thread Jason S





Very Softimage =p

On 03/19/14 7:50, Jean-Louis Billard wrote:

  
Thanks for the kind comments.
  
  
  Yes all in Softimage, naturally!
  
  
  Our pipeline is Softimage->Arnold->Nuke and despite all
the turmoil I can tell you I have no intention whatsoever to change
that in the near future.
  It works, it works well, and nothing else right now can touch it.
  
  
  So Autodesk can shove their “innovation” right back up their
collective arse and choke on it -- as far as I’m concerned they’ve just
killed a member of my family.
  
  
  Cheers,
  Jean-Louis
  
  
  
  
  On 19 Mar 2014, at 04:39, Tenshi Sama 
wrote:
  
  



Nice! All in Softimage?



On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Francisco
Criado 
wrote:
Excelent
work, so nice!
  
  
  
On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, olivier jeannel  wrote:
  
https://vimeo.com/groups/ice/videos/89426397

Kudos to Digital Golem !

Re: Autodesk webinar

"The tool
settings panel is way too huge"

this is what i mean about the loop settings.
they appear in the same place as the selection settings

so yea it is the same problem


On 19 March 2014 11:59, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Sebastien Sterling
>  wrote:
> > "which selection tool is taking all of this screen real-estate?"
> >
> >
> > Tool Settings, it's the tool settings panel, where they keep the soft
> > selection options. which also doubles up as the settings bar for spesific
> > functions like adding loops etc...
>
> The setting bar for adding loops...  I don't know what is.  The tool
> settings panel is way too huge, we know this I believe we will address
> the general fatness of the attribute editor in Maya. However, you
> shouldn't having that opened to work  Maya modelers don't normally
> work with any windows.  To toggle proportional modeling, you'll press
> and release the B key. To adjust the proportional radius, you'll press
> and hold B - same as in XSI in this case.  For everything else, it is
> in marking menus. (For example, hold W and LMB for the transform tool
> menu, or Q for selection)  There shouldn't be anything you need in the
> tool settings that isn't in the tools's marking menu
>

Re: trying to looking on the bright side......

2014-03-19 Thread Raffaele Fragapane

The caching thing is a bit of a resentful point to be honest. Soft doesn't
have a flip solver at all, if it had one, you would be caching a fair bit :)
The transfer looks a bit klunky, but not knowing the data beneath I can't
really tell if it's groan worthy or not.

Bifrost's first version is simply not ICE and shouldn't be compared, in
this first version it's a crippled but renewed naiad, look at it like that.
On 19 Mar 2014 19:40, "Arvid Björn"  wrote:

> Like someone else said, I can spend days in an ICE tree before caching
> anything, it seems to me that the instantness of ICE would be lost in a
> round-trip to an external process. But I'm sure it has a lot of advantages.
> A big one for AD being that they don't have to venture too deep into the
> Maya code base to be able to integrate it.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Raffaele Fragapane <
> raffsxsil...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> In my book that it's an external module is good for a very extensive
>> number of reasons, and it has a good team behind it.
>>
>> The  approach to the dev and release cycle though I find both
>> questionable and insufficient to place it anywhere significant on the map
>> any some than two to three years, and that leaves a massive gap for those
>> coming from soft and incapable or unwilling to adopt or develop competing
>> solutions.
>>
>> Given autodesk propensity to rushed and whimsical decisions it also makes
>> me unwilling to roll the dice on it at all since it might be a great thing
>> that might still get canned if it doesn't  instantaneously produce results,
>> results I question it can produce at all any time soon.
>>  On 19 Mar 2014 04:48, "Arvid Björn"  wrote:
>>
>>> I was really surprised that Bifrost was some external process, and then
>>> even more surprised that they tried to tout this as a good thing. Here's
>>> the mental image I got during that demo:
>>>
>>> http://i.imgur.com/OUhV4wj.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Morten Bartholdy 
>>> wrote:
>>>
   Its probably like this..



>>>
>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Alastair Hearsum


Graham

I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in 
doing things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple 
example I gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the 
Maya workflow as being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the 
analogy here but the first step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting 
the problem. Marc Stevens went as far as he could in the webinar in 
conceding that there may be qualitative differences in the 
Maya/Softimage interface workflow scenario and that it is something that 
you are looking at


So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.

Alastair


Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk 
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 
25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)

Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private 
and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). 
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do 
not necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the 
intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in 
error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying 
of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received 
in error please kindly return it to the sender and delete this message 
from your system.

On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:

I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo) that 
many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply can't go 
into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else. This is no 
different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what SI 
Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala 
Softimage, you can do it with something like this:

// MEL
//-
window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
frameLayout -labelVisible false;
string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
showWindow;
//-

Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.

Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing basic 
scripting may be critical.

Martin


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic 
mailto:klebed...@gmail.com>> wrote:
You should go with something more simpler for start:
Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in SI.

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to better
pastures... :(

On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 7:16:46 PM, Adam Sale wrote:

Chris, lets err on the side of caution and implement them all, as they
will all be needed at one time or another. The cool thing about ICE is
that one never knows what kind of cool tools another user would dream
up. Having all of the nodes gives us all the ability to create that
which doesn't even exist yet.

Innovative approaches to ICE was why I fell in love with it.

I remember Felix Gebhardts forest vs man sim back in 2008, and
remembered thinking that this new paradigm in working gave us the
potential for limitless innovation.

Then Paul Smith went in and remade space invaders... for fun in ICE.
Not what the devs originally had in mind I am guessing.

There are so many neat little ways people have leveraged ICE power in
unexpected ways, this is why people are so upset, and our community is
up in arms. It feels like our maximum creative potential is being
stripped away.

So, if we're forced to biFrost, which I'm hoping like hell is all it's
cracked up to be, then port the nodes and compounds over, and let's
start anew.

Nuff said

Adam

On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Enoch Ihde mailto:emi...@gmail.com>> wrote:

@chris:
i use pretty much all of the generic & general nodes, as i think
any user of ice does.
whether or not people use syflex stuff will depend on if they're
doing syflex specific cloth work.
you understand that this question of "which of this list of
datatypes do you use?" is a bit ridiculous?
i suppose you're trying to prioritize what to implement and when,
but you're basically saying "do you use floats, ints, for loops,
arrays, data comparisons, and logic operations, and which ones do
you use the most?"
a very odd question, don't you think?

On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Chris Vienneau
mailto:chris.vienn...@autodesk.com>>
wrote:

The topic was bringing over ICE graphs into Bifrost. We will
not show the Bifrost graph in the first version but if you
click here

(https://www.fxguide.com/featured/bifrost-the-return-of-the-naiad-team-with-a-bridge-to-ice/)
you can see what we showed at Siggraph last year in terms of
the graph.

Let me ask a very open question to Paul Doyle. Paul when
people say the creators of ICE work at Fabric do you agree?
Many on the Bifrost team would argue they were just as much a
part of it than the hard working guys at Fabric. I think it is
great that there are two companies following this path and
that will only mean competition which is a good thing but I do
believe there are many people who came together and not just
1-2 who drove the whole thing.

ICE is a set of base function nodes built into higher order
operations (compounds) with a super slick visual programming
language and strong ways of querying scene data. Given we have
the source code of ICE we can put in nodes that match 1 for 1
the code instead of reverse engineering it which is usually
where things fall apart in terms of migration tools.

We can even open this up to the fabric guys who are here so of
these node types which do you use the most on a daily basis
and which do not use or find need work:

Array

Color
*

Constant
*

Conversion
* Data

Access
*

Debugging
*

Execution
* Geometry

Queries
* Math

Basic
* Math

Comparison
* Math

Logic
* Math

Matrix

Re: Ancient lurker's response to the current developments

2014-03-19 Thread Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]

So this guys says what maurice posted here about the acquisition is
all "bold face lies".  It's true that in corporations, usually there
is a this cycle of buy/layoff, I've seen it.

But that is not at all what's been going on in Montreal with
Softimage. and we sure as heck shouldn't be looking to someone in S-F
to inform us.

It's a small community here in Montreal of developers.
Sottimage/Discreet/Kaydara/Max, it's all blending in.  The guy that
wrote IK in Softimage|3d and got an oscar for it? Worked on max for
the last decade, with with the guys that wrote the XSI command panels
and led the sumatra UI team.

So Marc Petit, who of course we had known for more than a decade, came
in and hired all the developers on Softimage that might have been
acquired and layed off by some foreign company, we don't know, and
kept the jobs in Montreal.  Although lots of people out there are
pushing the narrative that "everyone left", the vast majority,
probably more than three quarters, not counting all the dozens of
people who had come to Autodesk on their own before the acquisition,
are still here and working at Autodesk. That's just the facts.  We
have also hired new people on top of this.

Now of course, somebody he is going to tell me, wow I know all of
these people who have left.  To which I say,  10 to 18 years doing the
same thing? How long are you supposed to stay, exactly? People move
around all the time, the rate of attrition at Softimage and Autodesk
M&E are much lower than the industry, IMHO.  But they are not zero

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Jason S  wrote:
> Hi Stefan, If I can criticize your criticism,
>
> It does bring-up a number of not so great things about some clearly unfair
> behavior.
>
> Yet the piece proposes a very "unconstructive" form of criticism
> (just by the title itself, and the general tone),
>
> While becoming angry -can- be a good thing (if not essential)
> when faced with situations that can be seen as not right,
> there should be a clear distinction between firmly voicing disapproval, and
> sheer lashing out.
> (the latter being well on the counter-productive side)
>
> Calling people liars, incompetent or painting an entire organization as a
> desease or cancer..
>
> .. and you stated,
> "It was also the very first time I saw professionals use amounts of
> profanity on the list, in volume. "
>
> And when speaking about the (very) partial reversal,
>
> "The latter only came about after violent outbursts from the Softimage
> users, and rightly so."
>
> I would argue that (thankfully) most criticism put forth here up-til the
> reversal or otherwise,
> has been firm, respectful, thoughtful, fair and specific.  (for the very
> large majority of the volume)
>
> Otherwise welcome back! :)
>

RE: A confession

NURBS

--
Joey Ponthieux
LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES)
Mymic Technical Services
NASA Langley Research Center
__
Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not
represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Peter Agg
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 7:55 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

The way I see it, there are *things* that Maya is undoubtedly better at than 
Soft (nCloth, muscles, fluid, the new modelling tools etc),

RE: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

we just upgraded Momentum, V4 just shipped...it rocks...get some!

 

 

a

 

  _  

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of olivier
jeannel
Sent: 18 March 2014 21:06
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

 

This I don't want to hear :(
If Ben want to step in...


Le 18/03/2014 20:08, phil harbath a écrit :

I get the felling that Momentum is EOL as well.  perhaps a bit prematurely.

 

From: olivier jeannel   

Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 3:06 PM

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 

Subject: Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

 

Well, at least Exocortex, Eric Mootz, and all the others have heavy schedule
to make xsi keep-up :D

Le 18/03/2014 19:59, Alan Fregtman a écrit :

The Maya release feels like a list of plugins to me:

 

Bifrost... former 3rd-party sw (Naiiad), acquired...

XGen... 3rd-party Disney plugin, licensed...

Bullet Physics... free 3rd-party library...

OpenSubDiv... free 3rd-party library...

 

The only thing I see that's kind of cool is the geodesic voxel binding skin
algorithm, but I'd expect that kind of thing in a service pack / point
release.

 

 

On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Ben Rogall
 wrote:

http://area.autodesk.com/march18

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

What? !

He was one of the few who were talking to us even when being attacked and
cursed. The only good thing that has happened to us in the last couple of
weeks.

Martin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote:

> Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to better
> pastures... :(
>
>

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

2014-03-19 Thread Matt Morris

Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a new
low, didn't think that was possible.


On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge  wrote:

> Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to better
> pastures... :(
>
>
>

Re: [OT] Autodesk announces 2015 3D product updates.

2014-03-19 Thread Matt Morris

cool, subs money heading that way shortly ;)


On 19 March 2014 13:05, adrian wyer  wrote:

>  we just upgraded Momentum, V4 just shipped...it rocks...get some!
>
>
>
>
>
> a
>
>
>

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are being 
asked...


On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:09:53 AM, Matt Morris wrote:

Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a
new low, didn't think that was possible.


On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge mailto:ethivie...@hybride.com>> wrote:

Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to
better pastures... :(

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

Can you move the question to Chris to a new thread for when he gets back
online. Thanks
On Mar 19, 2014 9:15 AM, "Eric Thivierge"  wrote:

> No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are being asked...
>
> On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:09:53 AM, Matt Morris wrote:
>
>> Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a
>> new low, didn't think that was possible.
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge > > wrote:
>>
>> Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to
>> better pastures... :(
>>
>>
>>
>

RE: trying to looking on the bright side......

adding fuel to fire, but hearing that multi machine rendering doesn't
work...

 

anyone care to confirm?

 

if so, better off using naiad/RF

 

a

 

  _  

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele
Fragapane
Sent: 19 March 2014 12:28
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: trying to looking on the bright side..

 

The caching thing is a bit of a resentful point to be honest. Soft doesn't
have a flip solver at all, if it had one, you would be caching a fair bit :)
The transfer looks a bit klunky, but not knowing the data beneath I can't
really tell if it's groan worthy or not.

Bifrost's first version is simply not ICE and shouldn't be compared, in this
first version it's a crippled but renewed naiad, look at it like that.

On 19 Mar 2014 19:40, "Arvid Björn"  wrote:

Like someone else said, I can spend days in an ICE tree before caching
anything, it seems to me that the instantness of ICE would be lost in a
round-trip to an external process. But I'm sure it has a lot of advantages.
A big one for AD being that they don't have to venture too deep into the
Maya code base to be able to integrate it.

 

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Raffaele Fragapane
 wrote:

In my book that it's an external module is good for a very extensive number
of reasons, and it has a good team behind it.

The  approach to the dev and release cycle though I find both questionable
and insufficient to place it anywhere significant on the map any some than
two to three years, and that leaves a massive gap for those coming from soft
and incapable or unwilling to adopt or develop competing solutions.

Given autodesk propensity to rushed and whimsical decisions it also makes me
unwilling to roll the dice on it at all since it might be a great thing that
might still get canned if it doesn't  instantaneously produce results,
results I question it can produce at all any time soon.

On 19 Mar 2014 04:48, "Arvid Björn"  wrote:

I was really surprised that Bifrost was some external process, and then even
more surprised that they tried to tout this as a good thing. Here's the
mental image I got during that demo:


http://i.imgur.com/OUhV4wj.jpg



On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Morten Bartholdy 
wrote:

Its probably like this..

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

No. We have enough threads already and the question was in context to 
what was being said in this thread. I know it's a task to sift through 
all these emails, but he engaged in this thread so he should be keeping 
up with the thread and the questions asked within it. Honestly, I 
shouldn't have to ask a question twice and in addition to that, Andy 
Jones had a subsequent question as well. Should we ask everyone else 
who had questions for Chris V. to start new threads too?


Thanks,
Eric T.

On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:16:52 AM, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:

Can you move the question to Chris to a new thread for when he gets
back online. Thanks

RE: A confession

I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem when 
people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times from users 
where they start in another package and try to do the exact same workflow, only 
to then become frustrated.

You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way, you 
simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to label 
something as being bad.
I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things I like 
and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage and any 
software package to be fair.
I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their set of 
compromises, which we essentially accept.

Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome that. And 
if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that too.


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

Graham

I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in doing 
things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple example I 
gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the Maya workflow as 
being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy here but the first 
step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem. Marc Stevens went as 
far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there may be qualitative 
differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow scenario and that it is 
something that you are looking at

So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.

Alastair

Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
[GLASSWORKS]
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25 
Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and 
confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views or 
opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return it 
to the sender and delete this message from your system.
On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:

I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo) that 
many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply can't go 
into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else. This is no 
different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.





From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara

Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: A confession



You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what SI 
Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala 
Softimage, you can do it with something like this:



// MEL

//-

window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;

frameLayout -labelVisible false;

string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;

showWindow;

//-



Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.



Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing basic 
scripting may be critical.



Martin





On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic 
mailto:klebed...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

You should go with something more simpler for start:

Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in SI.



<>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Juan Brockhaus

I think the main frustration comes from actually not been able to do
certain things. not just to learn where the buttons are.
when shake was 'killed' by apple there was already Nuke around and showed
potential.
It was difficult to jump from shake to nuke having used shake for years and
muscle memory was already build up.
BUT, I could do EVERYTHING I was doing in shake and MUCH more. and then
more and more!

if it would be just about modelling, rigging, animation and some rendering,
I agree. Learn where the buttons are and you will be able to get to the
same level.
at the end of the day YOU are the talent, not the software.

but the problem starts, when you are NOT able to do what you were doing
before. regardless where the buttons are.
and ICE is such a thing... just not possible in any other software (except
Houdini)
That's at least for me where my frustration comes from.


anyway, back to do some ICE work...
;-)





On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Graham Bell wrote:

> I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem when
> people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times from
> users where they start in another package and try to do the exact same
> workflow, only to then become frustrated.
>
> You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way,
> you simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to
> label something as being bad.
> I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things I
> like and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage
> and any software package to be fair.
> I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their
> set of compromises, which we essentially accept.
>
> Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome
> that. And if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that
> too.
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
> Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: A confession
>
> Graham
>
> I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in doing
> things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple example
> I gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the Maya
> workflow as being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy here
> but the first step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem. Marc
> Stevens went as far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there may
> be qualitative differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow
> scenario and that it is something that you are looking at
>
> So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.
>
> Alastair
>
> Alastair Hearsum
> Head of 3d
> [GLASSWORKS]
> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
> London
> W1F 9NP
> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
> glassworks.co.uk
> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
> On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:
>
> I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo)
> that many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply
> can't go into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else.
> This is no different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>
> Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
>
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >
>
> Subject: Re: A confession
>
>
>
> You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what
> SI Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala
> Softimage, you can do it with something like this:
>
>
>
> // MEL
>
> //-
>
> window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
>
> frameLayout -labelVisible false;
>
> string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
>
> showWindow;
>
> //-
>
>
>
> Yeah, you have to

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Paul Griswold

While I agree with what you're saying Graham, you're not seeing it in light
of current circumstances.

Your argument holds weight if we were choosing to pick different software
and learn it.  I faced this when switching from Lightwave to Softimage back
with XSI 4.  I couldn't translate the LW way of doing things to Softimage
and it was frustrating.  But it was my CHOICE.

Softimage users are being FORCED to move to another package because their
chosen platform has been murdered by Autodesk.

Since Maurice has made it fairly clear this was the plan for quite a while
now, it is not unreasonable to have expected Autodesk to create as
seamless, effortless, and easy transition as possible for us to move to
Maya (or Max).  But nothing like that has happened.  There's no "plan" at
all.

There's no replacement for ICE, there's no "Softimage" environment or
keymaps, there's no series of transition videos, nothing at all.

Autodesk is the boss from Reservoir Dogs, "It's my way or the highway!".

-Paul




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Graham Bell wrote:

> I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem when
> people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times from
> users where they start in another package and try to do the exact same
> workflow, only to then become frustrated.
>
> You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way,
> you simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to
> label something as being bad.
> I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things I
> like and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage
> and any software package to be fair.
> I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their
> set of compromises, which we essentially accept.
>
> Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome
> that. And if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that
> too.
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
> Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: A confession
>
> Graham
>
> I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in doing
> things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple example
> I gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the Maya
> workflow as being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy here
> but the first step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem. Marc
> Stevens went as far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there may
> be qualitative differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow
> scenario and that it is something that you are looking at
>
> So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.
>
> Alastair
>
> Alastair Hearsum
> Head of 3d
> [GLASSWORKS]
> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
> London
> W1F 9NP
> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
> glassworks.co.uk
> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
> On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:
>
> I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo)
> that many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply
> can't go into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else.
> This is no different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>
> Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
>
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >
>
> Subject: Re: A confession
>
>
>
> You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what
> SI Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala
> Softimage, you can do it with something like this:
>
>
>
> // MEL
>
> //-
>
> window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
>
> frameLayout -labelVisible false;
>
> string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
>
> show

Re: Autodesk webinar

I don't understand either what do you mean with selection loop settings. If
you don't mind could you explain how to reproduce it? Sound like a cool
feature I don't know.

Talking about selection tools, I hate the lasso selection tool in Maya. I
wish it could work like Softimage. I use lasso all the time in Softimage
but in Maya its unusable even in "accurate" slow mode.

Anyway, I agree with Luc-Eric here. The tool settings is huge, but I don't
think any Maya user opens it more than a few seconds if at all.

The attribute editor is also quite big but opening it with ctrl + A is fast
enough to have it closed all the time, or have the channel box opened
instead. It should have a Tool Settings hotkey by default too though.

Marking Menus and spacebar Hotbox is the way to work. People sometimes
complain about F8~F12 being too far away which is true, but nobody uses it
often if at all. RMB and drag to the left will change to vertex selection,
you don't even need to see the menu. It's not a bad workflow.

Being able to tearoff and dock the window back easily is pretty cool, but I
miss the minimize option ala Softimage. You can't minimize Tool Settings at
all, not even ala Windows (like the Script Editor), which I hate because I
can't see the command editor.

I agree that all of this is annoying, but I think is the less annoying part
of Maya.

Martin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Sebastien Sterling <
sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "The tool
> settings panel is way too huge"
>
> this is what i mean about the loop settings.
> they appear in the same place as the selection settings
>
> so yea it is the same problem
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 11:59, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Sebastien Sterling
>>  wrote:
>> > "which selection tool is taking all of this screen real-estate?"
>> >
>> >
>> > Tool Settings, it's the tool settings panel, where they keep the soft
>> > selection options. which also doubles up as the settings bar for
>> spesific
>> > functions like adding loops etc...
>>
>> The setting bar for adding loops...  I don't know what is.  The tool
>> settings panel is way too huge, we know this I believe we will address
>> the general fatness of the attribute editor in Maya. However, you
>> shouldn't having that opened to work  Maya modelers don't normally
>> work with any windows.  To toggle proportional modeling, you'll press
>> and release the B key. To adjust the proportional radius, you'll press
>> and hold B - same as in XSI in this case.  For everything else, it is
>> in marking menus. (For example, hold W and LMB for the transform tool
>> menu, or Q for selection)  There shouldn't be anything you need in the
>> tool settings that isn't in the tools's marking menu
>>
>
>

RE: trying to looking on the bright side......

Did no one post this?

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/bifrost-exclusive-first-in-depth-look/

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of adrian wyer
Sent: 19 March 2014 13:20
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: trying to looking on the bright side..

adding fuel to fire, but hearing that multi machine rendering doesn't work...

anyone care to confirm?

if so, better off using naiad/RF

a

From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele 
Fragapane
Sent: 19 March 2014 12:28
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: trying to looking on the bright side..

The caching thing is a bit of a resentful point to be honest. Soft doesn't have 
a flip solver at all, if it had one, you would be caching a fair bit :)
The transfer looks a bit klunky, but not knowing the data beneath I can't 
really tell if it's groan worthy or not.

Bifrost's first version is simply not ICE and shouldn't be compared, in this 
first version it's a crippled but renewed naiad, look at it like that.
On 19 Mar 2014 19:40, "Arvid Björn" 
mailto:arvidbj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Like someone else said, I can spend days in an ICE tree before caching 
anything, it seems to me that the instantness of ICE would be lost in a 
round-trip to an external process. But I'm sure it has a lot of advantages. A 
big one for AD being that they don't have to venture too deep into the Maya 
code base to be able to integrate it.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Raffaele Fragapane 
mailto:raffsxsil...@googlemail.com>> wrote:

In my book that it's an external module is good for a very extensive number of 
reasons, and it has a good team behind it.

The  approach to the dev and release cycle though I find both questionable and 
insufficient to place it anywhere significant on the map any some than two to 
three years, and that leaves a massive gap for those coming from soft and 
incapable or unwilling to adopt or develop competing solutions.

Given autodesk propensity to rushed and whimsical decisions it also makes me 
unwilling to roll the dice on it at all since it might be a great thing that 
might still get canned if it doesn't  instantaneously produce results, results 
I question it can produce at all any time soon.
On 19 Mar 2014 04:48, "Arvid Björn" 
mailto:arvidbj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I was really surprised that Bifrost was some external process, and then even 
more surprised that they tried to tout this as a good thing. Here's the mental 
image I got during that demo:

http://i.imgur.com/OUhV4wj.jpg
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Morten Bartholdy 
mailto:x...@colorshopvfx.dk>> wrote:

Its probably like this..

<>

REAL innovation

http://dev.quixel.se/ddo

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyJJAp17K-Y

&feature=youtu.be

 

stunning workflow, technically app agnostic

 

a

 

Adrian Wyer
Fluid Pictures
75-77 Margaret St.
London
W1W 8SY 
++44(0) 207 580 0829 


adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com
mailto:adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com> 

www.fluid-pictures.com
http://www.fluid-pictures.com/>  

 

Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
Company number:5657815
VAT number: 872 6893 71

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Alastair Hearsum


Graham

Sorry , I just can't accept that. We have very experienced people here 
who have used Maya a lot in production. I trust them implicitly. They 
produce some of our best work. They are not raving newbies and have 
shown repeatedly their willingness and ability to embrace new technology 
and workflows. Its not only from my lack of experience that I have 
formed my opinions. I'll say it again, Maya's interface and general 
workflow leaves a lot to be desired. If you want to listen and you have 
a genuine desire to improve Maya, this what we are saying.


Alastair


Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
GLASSWORKS
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk 
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 
25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)

Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private 
and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). 
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do 
not necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the 
intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in 
error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying 
of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received 
in error please kindly return it to the sender and delete this message 
from your system.

On 19/03/2014 13:25, Graham Bell wrote:

I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem when 
people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times from users 
where they start in another package and try to do the exact same workflow, only 
to then become frustrated.

You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way, you 
simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to label 
something as being bad.
I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things I like 
and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage and any 
software package to be fair.
I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their set of 
compromises, which we essentially accept.

Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome that. And 
if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that too.


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

Graham

I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in doing 
things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple example I 
gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the Maya workflow as 
being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy here but the first 
step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem. Marc Stevens went as 
far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there may be qualitative 
differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow scenario and that it is 
something that you are looking at

So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.

Alastair

Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
[GLASSWORKS]
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25 
Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and 
confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views or 
opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return it 
to the sender and delete this message from your system.
On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:

I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo) that 
many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply can't go 
into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else. This is no 
different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.





From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara

Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19

To: softimage@listproc.aut

Re: REAL innovation

H.O.L.Y.   C.R.A.P.




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:44 AM, adrian wyer  wrote:

>   http://dev.quixel.se/ddo
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyJJAp17K-Y&feature=youtu.be
>
>
>
> stunning workflow, technically app agnostic
>
>
>
> a
>
>
>
> Adrian Wyer
> Fluid Pictures
> 75-77 Margaret St.
> London
> W1W 8SY
> ++44(0) 207 580 0829
>
>
> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com
>
> www.fluid-pictures.com
>
>
>
> Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
> Company number:5657815
> VAT number: 872 6893 71
>
>
>



-- 





Perry Harovas
Animation and Visual Effects

http://www.TheAfterImage.com

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Gaël Honorez

We are using maya here for a dozen of years, but we are still trying to 
run away from it on every occasion possible.


Today, we read the what's new page for maya 2015.

"Maya 2015 addresses at least 30 workflow obstacles identified as high 
priority by customers".


That sentence make us laugh during all launch break. I don't know what 
customers you asked, but I can tell you 30 workflow problems in the 
color picker alone.


I just hope you forgot a 0 somewhere.



On 19/03/2014 14:25, Graham Bell wrote:

I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem when 
people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times from users 
where they start in another package and try to do the exact same workflow, only 
to then become frustrated.

You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way, you 
simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to label 
something as being bad.
I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things I like 
and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage and any 
software package to be fair.
I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their set of 
compromises, which we essentially accept.

Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome that. And 
if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that too.


From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

Graham

I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in doing 
things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple example I 
gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the Maya workflow as 
being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy here but the first 
step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem. Marc Stevens went as 
far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there may be qualitative 
differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow scenario and that it is 
something that you are looking at

So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.

Alastair

Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
[GLASSWORKS]
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25 
Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and 
confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views or 
opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, 
dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly 
prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please kindly return it 
to the sender and delete this message from your system.
On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:

I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo) that 
many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply can't go 
into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else. This is no 
different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.





From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
 [mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara

Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19

To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: A confession



You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what SI 
Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala 
Softimage, you can do it with something like this:



// MEL

//-

window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;

frameLayout -labelVisible false;

string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;

showWindow;

//-



Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.



Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing basic 
scripting may be critical.



Martin





On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Ivan Vasiljevic 
mailto:klebed...@gmail.com>>
 wrote:

You should go with something more simpler for start:

Try opening few outliners as you would often have few explorer opened in SI.

Re: A confession

Maya = WorkDrip
Softimage = WorkFlow




On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Gaël Honorez  wrote:

> We are using maya here for a dozen of years, but we are still trying to
> run away from it on every occasion possible.
>
> Today, we read the what's new page for maya 2015.
>
> "Maya 2015 addresses at least 30 workflow obstacles identified as high
> priority by customers".
>
> That sentence make us laugh during all launch break. I don't know what
> customers you asked, but I can tell you 30 workflow problems in the color
> picker alone.
>
> I just hope you forgot a 0 somewhere.
>
>
>
>
> On 19/03/2014 14:25, Graham Bell wrote:
>
>> I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem
>> when people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times
>> from users where they start in another package and try to do the exact same
>> workflow, only to then become frustrated.
>>
>> You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way,
>> you simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to
>> label something as being bad.
>> I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things
>> I like and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage
>> and any software package to be fair.
>> I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their
>> set of compromises, which we essentially accept.
>>
>> Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome
>> that. And if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that
>> too.
>>
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
>> listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
>> Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: A confession
>>
>> Graham
>>
>> I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in doing
>> things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple example
>> I gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the Maya
>> workflow as being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy here
>> but the first step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem. Marc
>> Stevens went as far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there may
>> be qualitative differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow
>> scenario and that it is something that you are looking at
>>
>> So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.
>>
>> Alastair
>>
>> Alastair Hearsum
>> Head of 3d
>> [GLASSWORKS]
>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>> London
>> W1F 9NP
>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>> glassworks.co.uk
>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25
>> Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>> On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:
>>
>> I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo)
>> that many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply
>> can't go into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else.
>> This is no different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-bounces@
>> listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>>
>> Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
>>
>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com> autodesk.com>
>>
>> Subject: Re: A confession
>>
>>
>>
>> You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what
>> SI Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala
>> Softimage, you can do it with something like this:
>>
>>
>>
>> // MEL
>>
>> //-
>>
>> window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
>>
>> frameLayout -labelVisible false;
>>
>> string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
>>
>> showWindow;
>>
>> //-
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, you have to script a lot in Maya. Even for stupid things like this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Knowing basic scripting in SI is very useful, but in Maya, not knowing
>> basic scripting may be critical.
>>
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at

Re: REAL innovation

2014-03-19 Thread Nicolas Esposito

nDo was a huge surprise for me, DDO and 3DO are just absolutely stunning!!!
And very affordable too!


2014-03-19 15:05 GMT+01:00 Perry Harovas :

> H.O.L.Y.   C.R.A.P.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:44 AM, adrian wyer <
> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com> wrote:
>
>>   http://dev.quixel.se/ddo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyJJAp17K-Y&feature=youtu.be
>>
>>
>>
>> stunning workflow, technically app agnostic
>>
>>
>>
>> a
>>
>>
>>
>> Adrian Wyer
>> Fluid Pictures
>> 75-77 Margaret St.
>> London
>> W1W 8SY
>> ++44(0) 207 580 0829
>>
>>
>> adrian.w...@fluid-pictures.com
>>
>> www.fluid-pictures.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
>> Company number:5657815
>> VAT number: 872 6893 71
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Perry Harovas
> Animation and Visual Effects
>
> http://www.TheAfterImage.com 
>
>

Re: A confession

2014-03-19 Thread Christian Lattuada

+

.:.
Christian Lattuada

tel +39 3331277475
...


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Perry Harovas wrote:

> Maya = WorkDrip
> Softimage = WorkFlow
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Gaël Honorez  wrote:
>
>> We are using maya here for a dozen of years, but we are still trying to
>> run away from it on every occasion possible.
>>
>> Today, we read the what's new page for maya 2015.
>>
>> "Maya 2015 addresses at least 30 workflow obstacles identified as high
>> priority by customers".
>>
>> That sentence make us laugh during all launch break. I don't know what
>> customers you asked, but I can tell you 30 workflow problems in the color
>> picker alone.
>>
>> I just hope you forgot a 0 somewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19/03/2014 14:25, Graham Bell wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem
>>> when people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times
>>> from users where they start in another package and try to do the exact same
>>> workflow, only to then become frustrated.
>>>
>>> You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way,
>>> you simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to
>>> label something as being bad.
>>> I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things
>>> I like and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage
>>> and any software package to be fair.
>>> I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their
>>> set of compromises, which we essentially accept.
>>>
>>> Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome
>>> that. And if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
>>> listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
>>> Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: Re: A confession
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>> I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in
>>> doing things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple
>>> example I gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the
>>> Maya workflow as being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy
>>> here but the first step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem.
>>> Marc Stevens went as far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there
>>> may be qualitative differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow
>>> scenario and that it is something that you are looking at
>>>
>>> So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.
>>>
>>> Alastair
>>>
>>> Alastair Hearsum
>>> Head of 3d
>>> [GLASSWORKS]
>>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>>> London
>>> W1F 9NP
>>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>>> glassworks.co.uk
>>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office
>>> 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
>>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
>>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
>>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
>>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
>>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
>>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>>> On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:
>>>
>>> I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo)
>>> that many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply
>>> can't go into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else.
>>> This is no different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-bounces@
>>> listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Martin Yara
>>>
>>> Sent: 19 March 2014 11:19
>>>
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>> autodesk.com>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: A confession
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You shouldn't rely too much on the outliners, they are nowhere near what
>>> SI Explorer is. But if you must, and want to open multiple outliners ala
>>> Softimage, you can do it with something like this:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> // MEL
>>>
>>> //-
>>>
>>> window -t "Outliner" -wh 200 500;
>>>
>>> frameLayout -labelVisible false;
>>>
>>> string $panel = `outlinerPanel`;
>>>
>>> showWindow;
>>>
>>> //

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

2014-03-19 Thread Chris Vienneau

Sorry guys. I got a nasty case of tonsillitis and have been laid out for the 
last three days.

CV/

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Eric Thivierge
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎19‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎15‎ ‎AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are being
asked...

On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:09:53 AM, Matt Morris wrote:
> Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a
> new low, didn't think that was possible.
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge  > wrote:
>
> Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to
> better pastures... :(
>
>

<>

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"

And to Chris' credit, he still replied to me offline with a question I had.


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Chris Vienneau <
chris.vienn...@autodesk.com> wrote:

> Sorry guys. I got a nasty case of tonsillitis and have been laid out for
> the last three days.
>
> CV/
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>
> From: Eric Thivierge
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:15 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>
> No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are being
> asked...
>
> On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:09:53 AM, Matt Morris wrote:
> > Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a
> > new low, didn't think that was possible.
> >
> >
> > On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge  > > wrote:
> >
> > Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to
> > better pastures... :(
> >
> >
>
>


-- 





Perry Harovas
Animation and Visual Effects

http://www.TheAfterImage.com

Re: "Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The Toolset"


Sorry to hear that. Hope you feel better soon. Thanks for the note.

Eric T.

On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:15:15 AM, Chris Vienneau wrote:

Sorry guys. I got a nasty case of tonsillitis and have been laid out for the 
last three days.

CV/

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Eric Thivierge
Sent: ‎Wednesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎19‎, ‎2014 ‎9‎:‎15‎ ‎AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are being
asked...

On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:09:53 AM, Matt Morris wrote:

Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a
new low, didn't think that was possible.


On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge mailto:ethivie...@hybride.com>> wrote:

 Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to
 better pastures... :(

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

...anyway, the burning question still needs answering


On 19 March 2014 12:01, Artur Woźniak  wrote:

> Yeah, that sucks. Half of your viewport turns red.
>
>
> 2014-03-19 12:55 GMT+01:00 Perry Harovas :
>
> Since I jump back and forth between the two all the time, mostly as it
>> applies to teaching, but also when I need to do nCloth or make something
>> with PaintFX, I can't tell you how many times I have keyed things because I
>> use the S key, and never remapped Softimage to use the alt key.
>> The only two concessions I ever made to Maya workflow were the space bar
>> to maximize panels, and the 3 button mouse combo was put in Maya mode (too
>> much muscle memory over all the years as a Maya user to give that up). So
>> even after 10 years as an SI user, I still can't break from using the S key
>> in Maya at least once per session and it has F*CKED me so many times I
>> can't even count. Even worse, by default, the S key in Maya sets keys on
>> ALL attributes of the selected object. ALL OF THEM.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The S key THE S KEY !!!
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 11:32, Chris Marshall  wrote:
>>
>>> OK but about 95% put it down as a top 5 feature, so that's pretty darn
>>> crucial!
>>> The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine not having access to
>>> it, and it scares me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 March 2014 11:24, Martin Yara  wrote:
>>>
 I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we
 need an ICE alternative.

 As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.

 Martin

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 

Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk

Re: Maya UI aesthetics

2014-03-19 Thread Chris Vienneau

Great post

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Eugen Sares
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎March‎ ‎17‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎22‎ ‎AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Cite from Chris Vienneau:

As for the workflows we have an internal project called Project H (or Humanize 
Maya) where we are working with all sorts of users from students to pros to 
studios to come up with proposals to the problems that have come up here and in 
the Maya user base. We invite anyone here and many of you have taken up our 
offer to contribute and it is up to us to show that we are delivering over the 
next two years during the transition period. If we don't at the end than you 
will all have choices and plenty of time to evaluate your options.

'Humanize Maya'... I like that!

It brings me to a topic that often seems to falls short in discussions about a 
user interface, due to the technical nature of 3d applications: 
aesthetics/readability.
Not workflow logic/consistency/ergonomics, which are of course absolutely vital 
(and also one of Maya's big weaknesses, but I'm leaving this out intentionally 
for now), but just the sheer visual appearance.
An equally important piece in the puzzle in my opinion.

As someone with an education and background in graphics design, I dare to say 
that Maya's UI is ugly. Like the devil's old grandmother.
Why?
Imagine the cockpit of a jet plane riddled with such a motley bunch of deranged 
elements and icons... get the point?

Presenting complexity in a way that can be processed by our visual cortex with 
the least effort is an art form, and Maya fails miserably. Softimage did it 
right.

Ironically, where Maya shows it's qualities mostly (...) is as a studio 
'backbone' - exactly where you would least expect people fancying funny little 
fiddly colored icons.
Like putting a hello kitty sticker on the airplane's throttle control

Some recommendations:
Generally, reduce the visual clutter! Hide everything that isn't important - 
show in only in the proper context.

Hire graphics designers, in addition to user interface designers, if you didn't 
already - the best you can find. The ones with a good taste.

Text instead of icons, wherever you can!
For me, it's no question that text is easier to 'read' than icons, from a 
certain (quite low) level of complexity on. A simple arrow is ok, but just 
don't tell me most of those Maya icons are intuitive...
Tastes are different, true, but at least give the user the option to switch 
icon/text, or both!

Offer a colorless UI scheme, or at least one with a much reduced palette!

Make the UI steplessly scalable! You probably have the chance now, after all 
you use Qt.

The hypergraph/hypershade icons, also the Bifröst nodes, from what I see... 
horrible design. Compare this to ICE!
Try to find a color code where the different colors have the same lightness. 
E.g. dark blue is barely visible, and you get a confusing and misleading visual 
contrast between elements of equal importance.

Get inspired... Softimage has this noble, modest and efficient appearance. 
Windows Metro - if Microsoft has the courage for such a step, maybe you do, too.

Less is more - I can't think of a better example of that old saying!

We all eat with our eyes also, don't we, and after all 3d users are mostly 
visual people (sometimes I'm not so sure about developers).

All this might sound superficial, but when it helps keeping track, it ain't 
anymore.

And, finally, what harm is done when your girlfriend puts one some mascara... ; 
}

Thanks for your attention!
Respectfully,
Eugen

[http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png] 

Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der avast! 
Antivirus Schutz ist aktiv.

<>

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

Yes, you are correct, and I didn't want to divert the original question.
It is a question that needs answering, although I highly doubt they will be
able to answer it in terms of
dates. However, a road map would be a good idea, for anyone left who
decides
to move to Maya, or is trying to evaluate a move like that.

That wouldn't be me, but the people who that applies to, yes, deserve some
sort of road map I would think.





On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Chris Marshall
wrote:

> ...anyway, the burning question still needs answering
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 12:01, Artur Woźniak  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, that sucks. Half of your viewport turns red.
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-19 12:55 GMT+01:00 Perry Harovas :
>>
>> Since I jump back and forth between the two all the time, mostly as it
>>> applies to teaching, but also when I need to do nCloth or make something
>>> with PaintFX, I can't tell you how many times I have keyed things because I
>>> use the S key, and never remapped Softimage to use the alt key.
>>> The only two concessions I ever made to Maya workflow were the space bar
>>> to maximize panels, and the 3 button mouse combo was put in Maya mode (too
>>> much muscle memory over all the years as a Maya user to give that up). So
>>> even after 10 years as an SI user, I still can't break from using the S key
>>> in Maya at least once per session and it has F*CKED me so many times I
>>> can't even count. Even worse, by default, the S key in Maya sets keys on
>>> ALL attributes of the selected object. ALL OF THEM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
>>> sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The S key THE S KEY !!!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19 March 2014 11:32, Chris Marshall wrote:
>>>
 OK but about 95% put it down as a top 5 feature, so that's pretty darn
 crucial!
 The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine not having access
 to it, and it scares me.



 On 19 March 2014 11:24, Martin Yara  wrote:

> I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we
> need an ICE alternative.
>
> As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.
>
> Martin
>



>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Marshall
> Mint Motion Limited
> 029 20 37 27 57
> 07730 533 115
> www.mintmotion.co.uk
>
>


-- 





Perry Harovas
Animation and Visual Effects

http://www.TheAfterImage.com

Re: A confession

Hi Graham

Apart from a shot experience using Maya I also did the same with Houdini.
And again i was rendering. With Houdini I was frustrated the first few days
as I felt I could do things quicker in Soft. But it was much more
interesting than Maya since I could see the potential. After 3 weeks
rendering with houdini I was actually quite happy about it. It's flexible,
powerful and let's the artist enjoy a rendering workflow. My experience
with Maya was totally the opposite.

I don't have a massive experience with either Houdini or Maya, just a short
one. But I am very experienced with Soft and I now what it works for me and
what it doesnt.

If AD makes rendering in Maya as nice as in XSI, takes ICE into Maya,
etc. I would be very happy, sincemost likely I will be switching to
Maya -  but I doubt they will.

J


On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Perry Harovas wrote:

> Maya = WorkDrip
> Softimage = WorkFlow
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Gaël Honorez  wrote:
>
>> We are using maya here for a dozen of years, but we are still trying to
>> run away from it on every occasion possible.
>>
>> Today, we read the what's new page for maya 2015.
>>
>> "Maya 2015 addresses at least 30 workflow obstacles identified as high
>> priority by customers".
>>
>> That sentence make us laugh during all launch break. I don't know what
>> customers you asked, but I can tell you 30 workflow problems in the color
>> picker alone.
>>
>> I just hope you forgot a 0 somewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19/03/2014 14:25, Graham Bell wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem
>>> when people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times
>>> from users where they start in another package and try to do the exact same
>>> workflow, only to then become frustrated.
>>>
>>> You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way,
>>> you simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to
>>> label something as being bad.
>>> I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things
>>> I like and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage
>>> and any software package to be fair.
>>> I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their
>>> set of compromises, which we essentially accept.
>>>
>>> Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome
>>> that. And if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
>>> listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
>>> Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
>>> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: Re: A confession
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>> I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in
>>> doing things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple
>>> example I gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the
>>> Maya workflow as being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy
>>> here but the first step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem.
>>> Marc Stevens went as far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there
>>> may be qualitative differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow
>>> scenario and that it is something that you are looking at
>>>
>>> So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.
>>>
>>> Alastair
>>>
>>> Alastair Hearsum
>>> Head of 3d
>>> [GLASSWORKS]
>>> 33/34 Great Pulteney Street
>>> London
>>> W1F 9NP
>>> +44 (0)20 7434 1182
>>> glassworks.co.uk
>>> Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at glassworks.co.uk
>>> (Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office
>>> 25 Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
>>> Please consider the environment before you print this email.
>>> DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private
>>> and confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any
>>> views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not
>>> necessarily represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended
>>> recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that
>>> any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is
>>> strictly prohibited. If this transmission is received in error please
>>> kindly return it to the sender and delete this message from your system.
>>> On 19/03/2014 11:31, Graham Bell wrote:
>>>
>>> I've use both Maya and Softimage (XSI) for years, and the problem (imo)
>>> that many will make is that they're two different applications. You simply
>>> can't go into one and expect it to work in the same way to something else.
>>> This is no different to when jumping to Modo, Houdini, or Max.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>> bo

RE: Maya UI aesthetics

2014-03-19 Thread Manuel Huertas Marchena

thanks Rob, thats a good way to put it..!! hehe

IMDB | Portfolio | Vimeo
| Linkedin

From: chris.vienn...@autodesk.com
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com; sof...@mail.sprit.org
Subject: Re: Maya UI aesthetics
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:22:03 +

Great post Sent from Windows Mail From: Eugen Sares
Sent: ‎Monday‎, ‎March‎ ‎17‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎22‎ ‎AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com 

Cite from Chris Vienneau:

As for the workflows we have an internal project called Project H (or Humanize 
Maya) where we are working with all sorts of users from students to pros to 
studios to come up with proposals to the problems that have come up here and in 
the Maya user base.
 We invite anyone here and many of you have taken up our offer to contribute 
and it is up to us to show that we are delivering over the next two years 
during the transition period. If we don't at the end than you will all have 
choices and plenty of time to
 evaluate your options. 

'Humanize Maya'... I like that!

It brings me to a topic that often seems to falls short in discussions about a 
user interface, due to the technical nature of 3d applications: 
aesthetics/readability.
Not workflow logic/consistency/ergonomics, which are of course absolutely vital 
(and also one of Maya's big weaknesses, but I'm leaving this out intentionally 
for now), but just the sheer visual appearance.
An equally important piece in the puzzle in my opinion.

As someone with an education and background in graphics design, I dare to say 
that Maya's UI is ugly. Like the devil's old grandmother.
Why?
Imagine the cockpit of a jet plane riddled with such a motley
bunch of deranged elements and icons... get the point?

Presenting complexity in a way that can be processed by our visual cortex with 
the least effort is an art form, and Maya fails miserably. Softimage did it 
right.

Ironically, where Maya shows it's qualities mostly (...) is as a studio 
'backbone' - exactly where you would least expect people fancying funny little 
fiddly colored icons.
Like putting a hello kitty sticker on the airplane's throttle control

Some recommendations:
Generally, reduce the visual clutter!
Hide everything that isn't important - show in only in the proper context.

Hire graphics designers, in addition to user interface designers, if you didn't 
already - the best you can find. The ones with a good taste.

Text instead of icons, wherever you can!
For me, it's no question that text is easier to 'read' than icons, from a 
certain (quite low) level of complexity
on. A simple arrow is ok, but just don't tell me most of those Maya icons are 
intuitive...
Tastes are different, true, but at 
least give the user the option to switch icon/text, or both!

Offer a colorless UI scheme, or at least one with a much reduced palette!

Make the UI steplessly scalable! You probably have the chance now, after all 
you use Qt.

The hypergraph/hypershade icons, also the Bifröst nodes, from what I see... 
horrible design. Compare this to ICE!
Try to find a color code where the different colors have the same lightness. 
E.g. dark blue is barely visible, and you get a confusing and misleading visual 
contrast between elements of equal importance.

Get inspired... Softimage has this noble, modest and efficient appearance. 
Windows Metro - if Microsoft has the courage for such a step, maybe you do, too.

Less is more - I can't think of a better example of that old saying!

We all eat with our eyes also, don't we, and after all 3d users are mostly 
visual people (sometimes I'm not so sure about developers).

All this might sound superficial, but when it helps keeping track, it ain't 
anymore.

And, finally, what harm is done when your girlfriend puts one some mascara... ; 
}

Thanks for your attention!
Respectfully,
Eugen

Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der 
avast! Antivirus Schutz ist aktiv.

Re: ICE - When will we have todays functionality in Maya?

Hi Perry,
Yes this is exactly correct. A roadmap of where we go from here, to
actually get back to where we are today in Soft. Ridiculous really, but
that's the situation we're in.



On 19 March 2014 14:24, Perry Harovas  wrote:

> Yes, you are correct, and I didn't want to divert the original question.
> It is a question that needs answering, although I highly doubt they will
> be able to answer it in terms of
> dates. However, a road map would be a good idea, for anyone left who
> decides
> to move to Maya, or is trying to evaluate a move like that.
>
> That wouldn't be me, but the people who that applies to, yes, deserve some
> sort of road map I would think.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Chris Marshall <
> chrismarshal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ...anyway, the burning question still needs answering
>>
>>
>> On 19 March 2014 12:01, Artur Woźniak  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, that sucks. Half of your viewport turns red.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-19 12:55 GMT+01:00 Perry Harovas :
>>>
>>> Since I jump back and forth between the two all the time, mostly as it
 applies to teaching, but also when I need to do nCloth or make something
 with PaintFX, I can't tell you how many times I have keyed things because I
 use the S key, and never remapped Softimage to use the alt key.
 The only two concessions I ever made to Maya workflow were the space
 bar to maximize panels, and the 3 button mouse combo was put in Maya mode
 (too much muscle memory over all the years as a Maya user to give that up).
 So even after 10 years as an SI user, I still can't break from using the S
 key in Maya at least once per session and it has F*CKED me so many times I
 can't even count. Even worse, by default, the S key in Maya sets keys on
 ALL attributes of the selected object. ALL OF THEM.



 On Mar 19, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Sebastien Sterling <
 sebastien.sterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

 The S key THE S KEY !!!


 On 19 March 2014 11:32, Chris Marshall wrote:

> OK but about 95% put it down as a top 5 feature, so that's pretty darn
> crucial!
> The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine not having access
> to it, and it scares me.
>
>
>
> On 19 March 2014 11:24, Martin Yara  wrote:
>
>> I would say not even half of SI users use ICE daily, but I agree, we
>> need an ICE alternative.
>>
>> As for Autodesk will answer this? I really doubt it.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>
>
>

>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Chris Marshall
>> Mint Motion Limited
>> 029 20 37 27 57
>> 07730 533 115
>> www.mintmotion.co.uk
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Perry Harovas
> Animation and Visual Effects
>
> http://www.TheAfterImage.com 
>
>


-- 

Chris Marshall
Mint Motion Limited
029 20 37 27 57
07730 533 115
www.mintmotion.co.uk

RE: A confession

I totally agree.

I'm not defending Maya as some kind of perfection, far from it. But at the same 
time, I don't accept that Maya's UI and workflow is 'totally' crap. I actually 
like various bits of Maya, but are there big chunks of it that need addressing? 
You betcha. And I'm all for change and I'd love to have Softs rendering 
'system' in Maya, but I would also echo what Marc Stevens said in that I 
wouldn't perhaps copy/paste a feature, but take the best and build something 
new.

G

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jacob Gonzalez
Sent: 19 March 2014 14:28
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

Hi Graham

Apart from a shot experience using Maya I also did the same with Houdini. And 
again i was rendering. With Houdini I was frustrated the first few days as I 
felt I could do things quicker in Soft. But it was much more interesting than 
Maya since I could see the potential. After 3 weeks rendering with houdini I 
was actually quite happy about it. It's flexible, powerful and let's the artist 
enjoy a rendering workflow. My experience with Maya was totally the opposite.

I don't have a massive experience with either Houdini or Maya, just a short 
one. But I am very experienced with Soft and I now what it works for me and 
what it doesnt.

If AD makes rendering in Maya as nice as in XSI, takes ICE into Maya, etc. 
I would be very happy, sincemost likely I will be switching to Maya -  but I 
doubt they will.

J

On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Perry Harovas 
mailto:perryharo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Maya = WorkDrip
Softimage = WorkFlow



On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Gaël Honorez 
mailto:g...@nozon.com>> wrote:
We are using maya here for a dozen of years, but we are still trying to run 
away from it on every occasion possible.

Today, we read the what's new page for maya 2015.

"Maya 2015 addresses at least 30 workflow obstacles identified as high priority 
by customers".

That sentence make us laugh during all launch break. I don't know what 
customers you asked, but I can tell you 30 workflow problems in the color 
picker alone.

I just hope you forgot a 0 somewhere.




On 19/03/2014 14:25, Graham Bell wrote:
I'm not being disingenuous at all, only that this is a common problem when 
people jump from one software to another. I've seen this many times from users 
where they start in another package and try to do the exact same workflow, only 
to then become frustrated.

You can't jump to something else and expect it to work in the same way, you 
simply can't. It's a recipe for disaster. And it's all too easy to label 
something as being bad.
I'm not saying that Maya's workflow is superior either. There are things I like 
and hate about Maya, but you could also say the same about Softimage and any 
software package to be fair.
I think it was Luc-Eric who said in a previous post that apps have their set of 
compromises, which we essentially accept.

Chris has mention on work starting to improve Maya's UI and I welcome that. And 
if there some Softimage goodness in there, then I welcome that too.


From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]
 On Behalf Of Alastair Hearsum
Sent: 19 March 2014 12:45
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: A confession

Graham

I think its disingenuous to ascribe the difficulties people have in doing 
things in Maya only to the workflow being different. It was simple example I 
gave and I would have hoped that it would have highlighted the Maya workflow as 
being, dare I say, bad. I hope you don't mind the analogy here but the first 
step to an alcoholics recovery is admitting the problem. Marc Stevens went as 
far as he could in the webinar in conceding that there may be qualitative 
differences in the Maya/Softimage interface workflow scenario and that it is 
something that you are looking at

So yes, different, but lets not shy away from calling a spade a spade.

Alastair

Alastair Hearsum
Head of 3d
[GLASSWORKS]
33/34 Great Pulteney Street
London
W1F 9NP
+44 (0)20 7434 1182
glassworks.co.uk
Glassworks Terms and Conditions of Sale can be found at 
glassworks.co.uk
(Company registered in England with number 04759979. Registered office 25 
Harley Street, London, W1G 9BR. VAT registration number: 86729)
Please consider the environment before you print this email.
DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and attachments are strictly privileged, private and 
confidential and are intended solely for the stated recipient(s). Any views or 
opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent those of the Company. If you are not the intended recipient, be 
advised that you have receive

Re: A confession