Re: sslivesteam2-Digest - Number 356
Ron, What you want is Insulating Firebrick, or Insulating Brick. Softer and porous. Firebrick suppliers will have it, Cheers, Peter Trounce. - Original Message - From: Ron Ginger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:39 AM Subject: Re: sslivesteam2-Digest - Number 356 while on the subject of ceramics, I have been trying to find a meaterial to make a ceramic burner for a small boiler. Ive tried a piece of firebrick and some gas grill briquettes, but none of them seem to be pourous enough to work right. What material can I get (in the US) for this? ron ginger
Re: Charcoal - Why not briquettes?
John, It's mostly that briquettes are messy. When you break them up smaller to go through the firehole they tend to fall apart into crumbs which don't burn well and make a mess. Charcoal soaks up the barbecue fluid better and they stack inside with easy airspace. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Steamedup [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: Charcoal - Why not briquettes? Ok, after watching another coal fired engine at Shay Days last weekend: Why charcoal and not briquettes? Is there something in a briquette that will damage a boiler? Everyone uses charcoal to get the coal started but I am wondering why? Thanks, John Fuller Live Steam, the only way to travel! http://www.smallscalelivesteamers.info
Re: RH SRRL #24
Geoff, It started life as a chassis for a Roundhouse Pooter, and I lengthened the wheelbase moved the cylinders and built the rest. It has a lengthened G1MRA Project boiler, which I think was a fine piece of design. The boxcar holds the alcohol tank and R/C gear and servos which operate throttle and reverser by somewhat invisible piano wires. The paint colour of red was the original used on these locos according to the Loco Profile which I used to scale it from. I was glad, because blue just doesn't seem like a loco colour to me !! Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:49 PM Subject: Re: RH SRRL #24 Pete, Who made your Darj--great colour! Geoff.
Re: RH SRRL #24
Here's my Darjeeling in 13.9:1. http://dmcole.com/sslivesteam/darjeeling.jpg Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Mike Chaney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:14 AM Subject: Re: RH SRRL #24 Pete asked:- why can't we have a scale model in 7/8n2(1:13.9) for gauge-1 track! That would be a monster. You can! All you have to do is find a suitable builder and commission one. Mike
Re: wicks
I hear tell that the upcoming Aster Berkshire will have an alcohol vaporizing burner. Does anyone know for sure what this will look like ? Peter.
Re: Refinment on the momentum car
This is how clockwork trains used to control their speed. Any young lad worth his keep would of course take out the rotor as soon as Dad quit playing. Peter. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Refinment on the momentum car A governor would do the trick. 30 years ago I repaired typewriters and they used a device for this purpose to prevent the carriage from breaking bits in the escapement mech. The ones we used were gear driven with the gear on the end of a shaft having fly weights on the other end-like the centrifugal advance on an older car distributor. No resistance at low RPM's but at higher RPM's the weights would fly apart contacting the inside of the drum they were mounted in. Pretty simple and adjustable by how much tension was on the spring holding the weights toward each other. I wonder if you could use the bits out of an old car distributor to make one Earle From: paul gamlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2004/02/26 Thu PM 01:28:42 EST To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Refinment on the momentum car The purpose that a momentum car would be used in My case would to prevent a runaway on a down hill grade 4.5 to 5 % I am wondering if a flywheel and reverse centrifugal clutch could be devised...
Re: Testing fuel tanks
Hello Jeffrey, When I was in the design office using the ASME Section 8 Code, typical numbers for common pressure vessel steel were: Ultimate Strength 55,000 psi Factor of Safety 4 Therefore Design Stress 13,750 psi. The Yield Strength (about 30,000psi) was never used for design. Factor of Safety of 3 was only used for atomic reactors and other very carefully controlled constructions. Actually the ASME Code is not intended for designing things like our fuel tanks. Flat sides, silver brazing, brass, bronze, copper, threads, are hardly touched on. It was recognized that the yield strength was likely exceeded locally due to stress-concentration during the hydro pressire test. But thereafter, it would not be exceeded in service. In a refinery, the most highly-stressed vessels are the large storage tanks (not covered under ASME) and other than weld radiography, only testable by filling with water. Cheers, Peter Trounce. - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:52 PM Subject: Testing fuel tanks I'm concerned that there is an impression out there that there exists some standard or traditional test pressure that is correct for all fuel tanks or other pressure vessels (including boilers). Various numbers like 350 psi or 160 psi have been proposed. My recently purchased Accucraft 3-cylinder Shay came with a certificate which claims that the butane fuel tank was tested to 160 psi. There is an old adage in mechanical engineering that says you can't test in safety - or maybe it's an adage of old mechanical engineers - I can't remember! The safety of a system comes from its design, including dimensions, material selection, joining techniques, reinforcing details, penetrations and a host of other factors, not from one proof test. Testing of a system can be done to verify analysis done in support of the design, but a vessel that is tested, intensionally or accidentally, to stress levels above the yield strength of even one of its components is not a safe vessel, because the test has already caused the material, joints, reinforcements and/or penetrations to plastically deform and become unsafe. The only possible way that pressure testing guarantees safety is if a manufacturer is willing to subject a very large number of identical vessels to a test-to-failure to gather statistics that also support the original design limits of a vessel. Yes, it is possible that a single pressure test, if improperly defined and carried out can in fact decrease safety, rather than ensure it. The ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code has been around for almost a century in order to bring science (and safety) to pressure vessel design, testing and operation. The Code not only defines acceptable methods of design and construction, but also material selection, joining, repairing, inspection and testing. University engineering libraries will have a copy of the Code if you are interested or you can buy it from ASME for a very large sum of money. Pressure vessels are designed with a safety factor in mind (often a minimum factor of 3) to the yield strength of the materials used in construction of the vessel. In other words, at maximum operating pressure and temperature, every part and component of the pressure vessel will experience stresses of no more than 1/3 of the yield strength of the material at that temperature. Other safety factors may be chosen for different applications, depending on the consequence of failure and the precision with which the designer knows the as-built dimensions and material properties. There are lots of subtleties like fracture toughness, stress concentrations, anticipated future loads, damage or corrosion and low-temperature transition temperatures, etc. that can also bite you if you're not careful. It's my suggestion that people who do not have training and experience in strength of materials calculations be incredibly careful when embarking on the design and construction of any pressure vessel whether it's a fuel tank, boiler or other vessel. Make friends with a trained mechanical (or sometimes chemical) engineer so that he or she can review your design and your fabrication and testing plans. The live steam fraternity has plenty of us mechanical engineers who are attracted to the hobby because of its application of very pure and basic engineering principles, so you should be able to find someone of appropriate background who would be happy to review your pressure vessel design. And please, if you feel very confident in your own analytical ability, review a copy of the ASME Code and get a copy of Formulas for Stress and Strain by R.J. Roark before you inadvertantly build yourself a bomb.
Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings
If in Paignton/Torquay there is the Great Western Hotel. http://www.uk-hotel-accommodation.co.uk/England/Devon/Paignton/hotels/greatw esternhotelpaignton.cfm Mel and Cathy are model steam train nuts, with quite a collection in the bar the last time I was there. Peter Trounce. Toronto. - Original Message - From: Anthony Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Back to the Wall was Back to O rings Hi Geoff, Sounds as if you are heading back home for a while?. Lucky you!. If so, and in the Cornwall-Devon area, looking for GWR Coaches (full size), you may want to try the Paignton to Kingswear (Dartmouth) Railway and return excursions which run hourly along the river Dart and Torbay coast. You can also get a river trip in a package ticket. They use the 2-6-2 GWR Tank engines and sometimes have visiting steamers. Also have the GWR rear observation cars and numerous GWR stock. Spend a few hours in Dartmouth and catch the train back as well. At Launceston, there is a also a 2' narrow gauge Tin Mine track, approx 4-5 miles?, long which we rode last year. It uses 0-4-0 open cab engines, and you may be able to ride the plate as I did. There is another GWR steam railway daily excursion from Buckfastliegh to Totnes which is also worth a visit, but probably not quite as good as the Dartmouth trip. However if heading north, the Seven Vally line and Dinting Railway have to be on your (our) list. When I visited Dinting two years ago, they had over 12 Castles, Manors, Kings etc, and lots of rolling stock. You can also visit the rebuild shops while in actual action. So many tracks and not enough time. Have a great trip. Regards, Tony D.
Re: steamup photography
Like most folk new to digital photography, I have struggled with the difference from film cameras. The long time delay on taking a picture. I have since followed the manual (!!!) and when needed push the button down halfway to give the camera time to do its thinking, then the rest of the way to take the picture. Helps. Mine (Olympus 490) lets me set the ASA up to 400 which fools the camera into using a faster shutter speed. I cannot manually change aperture or shutter speed. It has 4 levels of resolution: I don't know what difference these would make to shutter speed. Have to experiment. I do know that high resolution shots take forever to get into the camera's memory.Meantime it locks you out of taking another shot. If taking pictures of a train with a darker background (shrubbery ?) it would likely help to use spot metering on the loco, since its brightness would give a faster shutter speed. Maybe your camera gives you the spot-metering option. I'm sure that folk know that for a moving object, one should swing the camera round to follow it and push the button in flight. The blur will be in the background. Just recently I've come across a free download that let's you find out on each picture what the actual aperture and shutter speed were for that picture. It's www.irfanview.com install it on your computer plus the plugin EXIFF. Then if you bring up a picture on Irfanview click on the Information icon, click on EXIFF and you'll get all this stuff about what the camera did. I have no idea if it works for all cameras, but it's worth a try. Irfan is a live person and lives in Vienna. He even answers Email. One caution. This only works if you go for info exactly as it comes from the camera. If you process it on your computer for brightmess, contrast etc. it won't do it. It surprised me how slow the shutter can be indoors. Like 1/10 second in an arena with ceiling lights. Our eyeballs are much superior to cameras ! Cheers, Peter Trounce, Toronto.
Re: Steam domes, bushes glasses
My understanding is that the stinken tube is made from brass sheet and the seam is soft soldered and needs to be kept coolish, hence the pigtail to keep the gauge isolated from the heat. Since the pressure gauge is pretty important it's placed close to the engineer's eyeballs, so the pigtail needs to go into the boiler somewhere nearby to avoid a vulnerable long floppy tube. If the gauge pops, you don't want to have to hunt around your boot-tops for the shutoff valve. So there is a lot of logic in this. The pressure at the mudring is only maybe 3-4 psi more than the steam space. The pigtail tube is made curly so that some steam condenses and water stays in the curly bit so that steam stays away from the soft-soldered Bourdon . But you (in our sizes) can take pressure from anywhere, except I would stay away from sludgy areas where the connection might get plugged perhaps. Cheers, Peter Trounce. Toronto. - Original Message - From: JR May [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Steam domes, bushes glasses Hmmm, again from the prototype world, the pressure gauge is generally taken off a high spot in the boiler. My experience has been off the high side of the barrel with a pig tail and shut off valve. This would measure the actual STEAM pressure of the boiler. In taking my boiler license tests here in New Jersey, one question which is asked is where is the greatest pressure in a boiler? Its at the lowest point in the mud ring where the pressure of the boiler and the WEIGHT of the water combine to give you a higher pressure. I suppose that if you figure various water levels as conditions change while running that the pressure at the bottom of the boiler may vary. I suppose we could burn up a lot of electrons on this issue alone. Also, at the bottom of the boiler there are very few valves. In my mind, you want as few things as possible to go wrong down that low as if you loose a valve down there, you loose your water and can expose your crown sheet. I would assume too that the water at the low point in the boiler is pretty freakin' hot. At 150 psi I think the boiling temperature is around 400 degrees (or something along those lines). The pig tail I thought was to protect the gauge from the heat of the steam so that pressure causes the little tube (what is the name of that damn tube) to move and not heat expansion. At least in my mind, the pressure gauge needs to stay high, at least from a full size stand point. Now I'm going to have to go home tonight and look up the name of that stinken tube inside the gauge. Sleepless in Jersey Original Message - From: Mike Chaney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:00 PM Subject: Re: Steam domes, bushes glasses Ken asked Harry:- Could the bottom water glass bush in the backhead also service the pressure gauge? ...and Harry replied:- It could but you don't want it to. The gauge is best taken off a high (dry) bush, or the fountain. snip . and Ken got confused:- I am a bit confused by this. On one hand it makes sense to take the pressure of the steam directly. But, aren't gauges required to be separated from the steam through the use of a siphon? If the gauge needs to read water then why not take the pressure from the wet part of the boiler.. Good thinking, Ken, but we've always done it that way. When I first started in this steam lark, I was advised to put some steam oil in the syphon to keep the steam away from the pressure gauge. I keep forgetting to do it, of course, but I don't think I've lost a pressure gauge as a result. Mike
Re: G1MRA Newsletter and Journal #196
Daniel, #196 arrived here about 10 days ago. By Surface Mail. (Airmail is wasted money it seems.) Peter in Toronto. - Original Message - From: Daniel R. Fuller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 8:53 PM Subject: G1MRA Newsletter and Journal #196 I was just corresponding with Jim Curry about issue #196 which was mailed in England about 6-7 weeks ago. I have not received my issue. Has anyone in the US received their issue?
Re: Wire for Headlight
The real stuff to use is Pyrotenax cable which is copper wire in a copper tube and the electrical insulation is alumina or magnesia powder, which can go up to nearly 2000 degrees F. Used in warships etc. where cables must withstand fires. Anyone fancy making some ? Peter Trounce.
Fw: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions
I sent this message 24 hours ago to the List and haven't seen it appear, so thought I had better resend it. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Peter Trounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:02 AM Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions No problem here on Outlook Express. On the track radius problem, a more simple solution could be to check the track, as well as the Project wheels. Jun, I don't remember how you built your track, if it is hand-built or commercial track sections, but the Project should certainly go round 6 foot radius curves. A friend of mine has 7 foot radius and my Aster 141R had no problem, but he had widened the track gauge slightly on the curves. If you put the Project on the curve where it gets tight, you should be able to see if the wheels still have sideways clearance. Can you move the loco sideways ? If so, then at the tight spot, can the coupling rods be moved sideways on their pins ? If not, then that is easier to fix than the wheels. Remove each coupling rod and see if they are straight. And if OK, they can be made slightly thinner by filing to get more.clearance. But I would look at the track gauge first. Some commercial plastic track has holes in the centre of each tie for screws, and if the screw is put in tightly, the tie ends will curl up and reduce the gauge. Hope this helps, Peter Trounce - Original Message - From: Art Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:41 AM Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions I am not having any problem with Kitsukawa's messages on O/E, but I am not sure how to advise him! I have lent my copy of the Project book to a friend, but if memory serves, the coupling rods are one continuous bar connecting the crank pins of axles 1,2,3. ie they are rigid. I suggest Jun, that as a first go, you remove the con rods see if that improves things. If it does, then the answer is a 'proper' jointed con rod, with a knuckle after the second axle position.This should allow the wheels to conform better to the track curvature.Usually done to allow vertical movement, of course, which is not necessary on an unsprung loco like the Project. But before doing that, I would check whether the holes in the con rods may just be too tight, might benefit from a LITTLE reaming out. Check to see if the wheel sets have some freedom to move a little from side to side that they can do so EASILY. If removing the con rods makes no difference, if the wheel sets cannot move a little from side to side, then this means that there is insufficient play between inside of wheel boss outside of axle bearing. Now again, if memory serves right, a fault of the original Project design was that there was no means of pushing the axle bearings out dropping the wheel set. Basically what needs to be done is to thin the outside of axle bearings to give greater play. Difficult. 'De-flanging' the middle wheels was suggested. A dodge used frequently by the prototype BUT with a wider wheel tread, so not an easy solution.With an unaltered wheel width there is a risk of the centre drivers falling into the track on tight curves. I would also check that your wheel profile conforms to the GIMRA standards. With a 40mm back to back these give a very 'sloppy' fit on the track (the Europeans use 41) should allow curves to be taken easily even with a rigid chassis. Perhaps you have made your wheel flanges too thick?- thus removing the flexibility. Art Walker, Guildford, England. At 11:53 PM 6/25/02 -0800, you wrote: G1MRA Project Loco can not run on my garden railway (track radius 6 feet). Does the loco require larger track radius? Please let me know what to do. Jun Kitsukawa JAPAN
Re: Fw: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions
Thanks, Jim. Dave Cole just responded that my user profile was set so that I didn't get my own messages, so then I didn't know if it had been copied to the List. We live and learn ! Slowly. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Alison Jim Gregg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 9:56 AM Subject: Re: Fw: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions Peter I saw the original post of your message, so it did get out. Jim Gregg. At 09:45 AM 6/27/02 -0400, you wrote: I sent this message 24 hours ago to the List and haven't seen it appear, so thought I had better resend it. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Peter Trounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:02 AM Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions No problem here on Outlook Express. On the track radius problem, a more simple solution could be to check the track, as well as the Project wheels. Jun, I don't remember how you built your track, if it is hand-built or commercial track sections, but the Project should certainly go round 6 foot radius curves. A friend of mine has 7 foot radius and my Aster 141R had no problem, but he had widened the track gauge slightly on the curves. If you put the Project on the curve where it gets tight, you should be able to see if the wheels still have sideways clearance. Can you move the loco sideways ? If so, then at the tight spot, can the coupling rods be moved sideways on their pins ? If not, then that is easier to fix than the wheels. Remove each coupling rod and see if they are straight. And if OK, they can be made slightly thinner by filing to get more.clearance. But I would look at the track gauge first. Some commercial plastic track has holes in the centre of each tie for screws, and if the screw is put in tightly, the tie ends will curl up and reduce the gauge. Hope this helps, Peter Trounce
Re: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions
No problem here on Outlook Express. On the track radius problem, a more simple solution could be to check the track, as well as the Project wheels. Jun, I don't remember how you built your track, if it is hand-built or commercial track sections, but the Project should certainly go round 6 foot radius curves. A friend of mine has 7 foot radius and my Aster 141R had no problem, but he had widened the track gauge slightly on the curves. If you put the Project on the curve where it gets tight, you should be able to see if the wheels still have sideways clearance. Can you move the loco sideways ? If so, then at the tight spot, can the coupling rods be moved sideways on their pins ? If not, then that is easier to fix than the wheels. Remove each coupling rod and see if they are straight. And if OK, they can be made slightly thinner by filing to get more.clearance. But I would look at the track gauge first. Some commercial plastic track has holes in the centre of each tie for screws, and if the screw is put in tightly, the tie ends will curl up and reduce the gauge. Hope this helps, Peter Trounce - Original Message - From: Art Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:41 AM Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco -/O/E crash/some possible solutions I am not having any problem with Kitsukawa's messages on O/E, but I am not sure how to advise him! I have lent my copy of the Project book to a friend, but if memory serves, the coupling rods are one continuous bar connecting the crank pins of axles 1,2,3. ie they are rigid. I suggest Jun, that as a first go, you remove the con rods see if that improves things. If it does, then the answer is a 'proper' jointed con rod, with a knuckle after the second axle position.This should allow the wheels to conform better to the track curvature.Usually done to allow vertical movement, of course, which is not necessary on an unsprung loco like the Project. But before doing that, I would check whether the holes in the con rods may just be too tight, might benefit from a LITTLE reaming out. Check to see if the wheel sets have some freedom to move a little from side to side that they can do so EASILY. If removing the con rods makes no difference, if the wheel sets cannot move a little from side to side, then this means that there is insufficient play between inside of wheel boss outside of axle bearing. Now again, if memory serves right, a fault of the original Project design was that there was no means of pushing the axle bearings out dropping the wheel set. Basically what needs to be done is to thin the outside of axle bearings to give greater play. Difficult. 'De-flanging' the middle wheels was suggested. A dodge used frequently by the prototype BUT with a wider wheel tread, so not an easy solution.With an unaltered wheel width there is a risk of the centre drivers falling into the track on tight curves. I would also check that your wheel profile conforms to the GIMRA standards. With a 40mm back to back these give a very 'sloppy' fit on the track (the Europeans use 41) should allow curves to be taken easily even with a rigid chassis. Perhaps you have made your wheel flanges too thick?- thus removing the flexibility. Art Walker, Guildford, England. At 11:53 PM 6/25/02 -0800, you wrote: G1MRA Project Loco can not run on my garden railway (track radius 6 feet). Does the loco require larger track radius? Please let me know what to do. Jun Kitsukawa JAPAN
Re: Slow spam down tip
No argument here Geoff, Good engines. Peter. I steamed the Schools yesterday--Aster's first loco and one of their best--any argument on that? Ah, the challenge of an alcohol fired loco. Spasmodic Geoff.
Re: another question
Hi Royce, Depends on how much perfection you want to get. A completely satisfactory way of doing this job is to mark out the end, and scribe the outline of the tube diameters with dividers. Drill undersize holes (use the flanging form for support if you don't intend to reuse it), then a coarse file to size to fit the tubes. That's it. I don't know if your boiler ends are flat or domed, but boring a hole in a domed end is a lot less certain than filing. Half an hour and the job is done. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Royce Woodbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:52 PM Subject: another question Hi folks. Thanks again for all the helpful input. Don't know what I (or others who may be struggling in the dark) would do without the input from those with experience in the esteric world of gauge one live steamers. The internet was born to assist us in our pursuits. : ) But all the helpful input has brought me to another question. I have built the boiler end plugs for my boiler out of .050 copper sheet, bending over a form, annealing, etc. And now it's time to bore holes for the flues. The OD of the smaller plug is only 1.4. How do you hole this bugger to accurately drill/bore/unibore the flue holes? I was planning on using my mill (with DRO) to locate the holes. Any suggestions ? royce in SB
Re: Aster Reno Rain
It's been coming down wet for 3 days now in S. Ontario !! 100 miles north it's snow today. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Michael Denning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 10:18 PM Subject: Re: Aster Reno Rain Rain! I think we will get some this week! Boca Mikey - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Aster Reno Hi, You are not alone, mine is 11 also. Keep your steam up! B.W. Lunkenheimer, CFO, The drySwamp RR (we need rain!)
Aster Reno
Does anyone know if the Aster Reno came with two different numbers on the smokebox front ? Mine has number 11 but I'm hearing there was another number. Any ideas ? Peter.
Re: water input
My 2-8-0 has a 3/32 OD pipe, mainly for flexibility between engine and tender. ID of this would likely be about 1/16 I suppose. On the discharge side of the pump it could be smaller if it was important. Pump suction is a bit more important not to get too small. Depends also on pump size and pump speed of course, since velocity is what governs. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Royce Woodbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:36 AM Subject: Re: water input Phil, Jim, Mike et al : Thanks for the input re input water. So . . . next question. If the water input pipe is to be exposed to view, what would be the smallest OD/ID pipe advisable ? royce in SB
ADDRESS
Does anyone know what Bob Moser's business Email address is ? Thanks, Peter Trounce.
Re: ADDRESS
Thanks, Harry and Jim, that's what I had but it bounced on me. Cheers, Peter. - Original Message - From: Jim Curry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 11:34 AM Subject: Re: ADDRESS Peter: Try [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim
Re: Aster Schools parts assistance
Richard, Have mamual. How can I help. Peter Trounce. - Original Message - From: Richard Finlayson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:55 AM Subject: Aster Schools parts assistance Does anybody have an Aster Schools manual close at hand that could help me identify a bolt specification? If you could contact me off list I'd appreciate it... Thanks, -Richard -- == Richard Finlayson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: of boilers and things
Interesting. Assuming your thicker copper tubing has the same OD, then the extra copper will be on the inside. So there will be a bit less water. Now, copper has 9 times the weight of water but only one-tenth the specific heat. So more copper will actually reduce the heat-up time !!! All other things being equal. Cheers, Peter Trounce. - Original Message - From: Royce Woodbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:12 AM Subject: of boilers and things So here's a question to pick things up a little. I have a piece of boiler tubing from a kit 1 1/2 in outside diameter with a wall thickness of about .035. There are those of you out there who probably could say that that is type M, or something tubing. But as this tubing is provided in a kit, I assume that it is more than adequate for the pressure (40 psi ?) that it will have to contain. If one were to go thicker, the heat transfer properties of the boiler would change. For example, a thicker wall would take more energy to heat up before getting to the task of heating the water, but would retain the heat better (be less susceptible to environmental cooling based on its greater mass). And the same for the flue tubes. My question is, is it a bad idea to increase (I assume that decreasing wall thickness in shells or flues is a no-no) wall thickness for whatever reason ? Whadya think steamers ? royce in SB
Re: soft solder joints (was Harris book)
Harry, It is all too easy to have a meltdown on a Gauge 1 silver-soldered boiler when the water gets low. (Not with alcohol firing as far as I know.) But butane fired will certainly get into trouble fast. The Aster Pennsy K4 is prone to this due to the gauge glass being set too low. A not-very-expert friend of mine went through two boilers on his K4. When you see blue smoke coming out the stack it's time to worry !! The luboil is frying. I think the original reason for rivet-and-soft-solder was an extension from full-size boilers which were riveted as normal practice. At that era brazing a model boiler was a major job, with massive kerosine or gasoline burners, and brass and borax. So riveting was something anyone could do, with solder just as caulk for leaks. Certainly, the solder would run out of the joints with lack of water, but it would certainly not be an alternative for a stuck safety-valve !! Peter Trounce. - Original Message - From: Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:58 AM Subject: Re: soft solder joints (was Harris book) . . . . .Whether or not the boiling temp of the water will be raised high enough to melt the silver solder before the boiler blows I do not know Typical 45% silver solder flows at about 1150°F. If I didn't feel that nothing is impossible I would say that it would be impossible for the silver solder in a conventionally fired Ga1 boiler to be melted merely from the heat of the fire.
Re: Aster on eBay
There were two versions of the Aster Mogul. This is the original with single-cylinder (left side)and the right side is dummy, used as the oil tank (you can see the knurled brass filler screw on top of the cylinder.) It also has the original 6-wheel tender. The two-cylinder Mogul was the later Americanised version. In the eBay offer, the cab roof has been repainted red instead of black. Peter Trounce. CWolcott wrote: There is an Aster Mogul on eBay. When I last looked, it was at $460 US. It looks like an American prototype except for the buffers on the pilot. The link is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1705036474
Re: Cylinder vs. Axle Alignment
Harry, The crosshead forces would cause an up-and-down force at the front (mostly up). The fore-and-aft would be in some connection with the elasticity of the train and couplers. Then there was the left-right nosing. And the rolling motion (The UK Rivers were bad at that one). Clearly the steam loco was basically unsound (8-) Would never be allowed today !!! Peter Harry Wade wrote: At 08:58 AM 12/22/01 -0800, you wrote: I wonder if the lift to the loco front end was visible ? Peter Trounce. Over they years I've run across a number of descriptions of US locomotives (and a few British) which mention they rode with a pronounced for and aft rocking motion at certain speeds, posed as one of their lovable (or bothersome) idiosynchrasies. Perhaps on some of them this was induced to some extent by the alternating force on the guides finding the natural frequency of the mechanism, like an automobile wheel and tire that only wobbles at a certain speed? Cheers, Harry
Re: Shipping containers for Ga 1 models
Mike, The best advice I was given on shipping Gauge 1 engines is first, do not build a wooden box for them, because when the box is dropped (which it will be !!) the hard box surface will damage the loco. Instead use a good corrugated cardboard box, wrap the loco tightly in bubble-wrap and plastic parcel-tape., and fill the vacant space with plastic popcorn. When dropped, the box and popcorn will crush and absorb the shock. I have done this several times, using my local Mailboxes Etc store who have all the materials, and it works well. Will cost you $20-30 to have them do it but worth it. Insurance is only useful if the item is lost, because if damaged Well, since it's damaged, it couldn't have been packed properly, could it ? Peter. -- From: Mike Eorgoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Shipping containers for Ga 1 models Date: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 10:52 AM Since I expect carry on of our small engines to become a great headache due to recent events, can the list expound upon how to build a shipping container so that engines can be shipped properly? Mike Eorgoff near Chicago
Re: Ruby, Hot Water
Friend of mine with a single-cylinder Gauge 1 engine connected the two cylinder ends with a piece of hypodermic tubing. At start (low speed) the water-lock was relieved into the other end of the cylinder and at speed it worked fine. I think also that due to condensation when running, the tubing had water in it which in the short time of a stroke couldn't get out of the way quick enough to leak useful steam between the ends. Loco ran well. It was an Aster Mogul, Peter. -- From: M. Paterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Ruby, Hot Water Date: Monday, July 02, 2001 12:28 PM Does it make sense and is it possible to get rid of the the initial water buildup at startup by drilling a small hole, ie .0010 or smaller in the end of each of the steam chambers? The hole would be constantly open and thus reduce steam pressure in the chest. Would this cause a performance problem? Once running at temp there would be a constant bleed of steam out of the hole.
Re: Inquiry
Jun, This is avalve used in a fish aquarium for the air supply. Would there be one at a fish hobby store near you ? I assume it must be metal not plastic ? Peter. -- From: $B5L@n!!=c To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Inquiry Date: Thursday, June 14, 2001 4:24 AM I am going to modify The BAGRS Project Loco Kit.( SitG No52 $B!A(B56 ). And I ordered 2-way brass gang valve from PetsMart. But I received the following mail. At this time, we do not ship to locations other than the Continental United States, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands and Canada; nor do we accept credit cards with foreign billing addresses, which is why we cannot allow you to have merchandise delivered to a relative or friend here. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause you. Please let me know how get 2-way brass gang valve. Jun Kitsukawa 4-10-15 KugenumaSakuragaoka Fujisawa, Kanagawa 251-0027 JAPAN mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] hp:http://www6.plala.or.jp/locomotive/
Re: meniscus mayhem
Walt, The way these things are supposed to work is that the steam in the top leg is slowly condensing on the cooler metal and glass, and is supplying water which is slowly going down through the bottom fitting and back to the boiler. Peter Trounce. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: meniscus mayhem Date: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:27 PM Would not the portion of the tube that does not contain water have higher temp steam in it? I've never studied Thermodynamics, but there must be something like convection currents in the water portion, thus there would be some (maybe slight) temp differences. There should be some temp difference between steam and liquid, and since the system is pressurized, the temp should be higher than the 212 degree temp that water boils at in an open container at sea level. However, I could be as wet as the steam in a Ruby's cylinders! Keep it (your choice) up! Walt Lunk
Re: Capillarity
Since this is a live steam list, I also have to mention Wick oilers which work by capillarity. Have a pot of oil with a wick hanging down into the oil. Lead the wick up and over the side of the pot into another pot, and it will siphon the oil over to the other pot. Bearings have been oiled that way for years. Control of the oil flow rate is gained by twisting a wire around the wick to strangle it. I'm still surprised that it actually works. Cheers, Peter.
Re: Capillarity
Isn't this how sap in a tree works ? Peter. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Capillarity Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 9:56 PM Hi, How many people remember the classic demonstration of capillarity used in almost all phys/chem classes? Basically an open water surface with a circular plate that had different size holes drilled in it to accept different sizes of glass tubing. Sometimes they even put fool coloring in the water to make the phenomenon even more graphic. Now if I could only remember what I saw.. B. W. Lunkenheimer
Re: Capillarity
Well, Harry, the bit where it loses me is that just below the liquid surface there has to be a reduced pressure (below atmospheric) so that the rest of the liquid can be sucked up. (The capillary attraction is only present at the surface of the tube between liquid and gas.) So all very fine, but when your stick of celery (tree) is 33 feet high, this reduced pressure will be a perfect vacuum. Hence QED no tree can be taller than 33 feet. If on the other hand, the roots push the sap up, then a 300 foot tree will need 150 psi at the base. Something's not right here !!! Peter. -- From: Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Capillarity Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:28 AM At 11:15 AM 5/30/01 -0400, you wrote: Isn't this how sap in a tree works ? Peter. Peter, Supposedly. I went looking for good, meaty information of behavior of capillary action, and possibly information with which to predict it (I found neither), but what I did find is that now the universal favorite classroom demostration of the phenomenon of capillary action is to place a stalk of celery in a bowl of colored water and watch the color rise in the stalk. Tree, celery, close enough? Cheers, Harry
Re: Ruby - How about a sight glass?
Trent, If you make a glass of the OD seal type, it is useful to get metric O-rings because they come in 1mm cross-section, which makes quite a small unit. Peter
Re: Capillarity
Well, capillarity is OK. It's what happens when a liquid wets a surface. And wetting means that the molecules of water and glass attract each other, so that the water climbs a distance up the glass, only limited by how much weight of water the surface tension force can lift. It varies from one substance to another. It is a surface effect only. When the water is in a tube, the lifting force is determined by the perimeter of the inside water surface. The weight of water to be lifted is determined by the area of the water surface cross-section of the tube. So the lifting force is as the linear perimeter (pi times diameter) , the weight is as the area (pi times diameter squared divided by 4). So the smaller the tube, the easier the lift overcomes the weight. Small tubes = high lift. This also what makes soldering go. The liquid wets the metal and rushes into narrow clearances. If it doesn't wet it, then the liquid is repelled. If you look at a mercury barometer, you will see that the mercury is pushed down (it doesn't wet glass). But sap in trees, I dunno. Peter.
Re: Capillarity
OK but vacuum will not suck up water more than 33 feet. So what does the top of the tree do ? Peter. -- From: Chris Wolcott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Capillarity Date: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:19 PM Vacuum. The water evaporating out of the leaf creates a partial pressure that draws up additional liquid to replace it. I don't remember all the nitty-gritty details, but if you know one you can ask a horticulturist. Peter Trounce wrote: Chris, Fair enough, but after the sap in the leaf evaporates to the air, what pushes or pulls more sap in ? Peter.
Re: Code 197 Rail
Tenmille rail is a nominal .192 Would that do ? Peter. -- From: Bob Wescott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Code 197 Rail Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:18 AM Fellow Listers, I was speaking with Beat Hug of Old Pullman yesterday, He no longer carries code 197 rail. He now has code 215. Some #6's left in 197. Code 197 was equal to about 60lb rail in 1:20. I guess I'll have to go with Micro Engineering's code 205. I just hope I don't have to get a new rail bender. What a pain... Bob Wescott _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: Code 197 Rail
Bob, Tenmille have bot brass and nickel-silver, in both flat-bottom and bullhead styles. Somebody help here, please. Is it Sulphur Springs that handle Tenmille in the US ? In Canada, it is Gauge One Lines in Ottawa. Peter. -- From: Bob Wescott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Code 197 Rail Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:11 PM Peter, Do You have a phone number so I can get a catolog. Bob From: Peter Trounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Code 197 Rail Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 13:55:42 -0400 Tenmille rail is a nominal .192 Would that do ? Peter. -- From: Bob Wescott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Code 197 Rail Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 9:18 AM Fellow Listers, I was speaking with Beat Hug of Old Pullman yesterday, He no longer carries code 197 rail. He now has code 215. Some #6's left in 197. Code 197 was equal to about 60lb rail in 1:20. I guess I'll have to go with Micro Engineering's code 205. I just hope I don't have to get a new rail bender. What a pain... Bob Wescott
Re: Code 197 Rail
Bob, Tenmille istenmille [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the UK. I imagine they would tell you the nearest supplier, Peter.
Re: G1MRA ProjectLoco
Most people use the 3-link chain type of coupler as illustrated on page 81 of the Project Book. The hook can be filed up in brass or steel, and bent wire (brass or steel) used for the chain. Just make sure the chain doesn't hang down so low that it can catch in the rail switches. Sometimes the hook is sprung behind the buffer-beam, but this is not necessary. Tenmille sells hooks and chain but they are made of fiber and not fireproof, and not very strong, Peter Trounce. Sent: Monday, May 07, 2001 3:00 AM Subject: G1MRA ProjectLoco What coupler is suitable for G1MRA ProjectLoco? Jun Kitsukawa ??4-10-15 KugenumaSakuragaoka ?Fujisawa, Kanagawa ?251-0027 JAPAN
Re: G1MRA ProjectLoco
Fellows, Jun Kitsukawa has an interesting website: http://www6.plala.or.jp/locomotive/ with I assume pictures of his track and interesting method of track construction. Jun, is this your track, and is the shown Project being built by you ? Peter Trounce.
Re: Distilled Water Deviations-Dehumidifier water
Trot, They're talking about a DEhumidifier here, to produce water, not a Humidifier to evaporate water, Peter. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Distilled Water Deviations-Dehumidifier water Date: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:31 PM If it's a steam vaporizor in the dehumidifier then it should be ok. The newer ultrasonic ones I wouldn't trust though. They use sound waves to pummel the water into a vapor (vapour?) and would likely send the contaminants up with the water droplets. It might be interesting to setup an experiment where someone looks at the water that has just come out of one of those under a microscope. :) Trot, the common-sense, fox...
Re: G1MRA Project Loco
Casey, The Project book comes only from G1MRA: http://www.gaugeone.org/g1mra_book_sales.htm Peter. -- From: Casey Sterbenz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco Date: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:28 AM Is there a domestic US outlet for this book? Or does it have to be ordered directly from England? If so, what is the approximate cost in $US? Casey Sterbenz From: "Peter Trounce" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 19:35:13 -0400 John, G1MRA is the Gauge One Model Railway Association and the Project book is a detailed set of instructions on how to build a live-steam 0-6-0 loco. Go to: http://www.gaugeone.org/ to Resources and look for the Project book.
Re: G1MRA Project Loco
Yes John, on the 15th Sunday at 11am. Directions on:http://www.livesteaming.com/clubs/club_pages/RichmondHill.html Peter -- From: John Kowalchuk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:48 PM At 07:35 PM 4/1/01 -0400, you wrote: G1MRA is the Gauge One Model Railway Association and the Project book is a detailed set of instructions on how to build a live-steam 0-6-0 loco. I had just found the Project Book on either the Small Scale Live Steam site after I sent those emails. http://www.gaugeone.org/ SSLS only has snail mail address, no web address. A relatively simple loco to build and works extremely well, even if it is single-cylinder, but will pull a huge load. Between this and the Evans book I should be well equiped to tackle the Porter then the Mike. When you're finished, come and run it at our club near Ballantrae, not far from Oshawa. Is that where the meeting is on the 15th that Arno mentioned ? John Kowalchuk maker of mutes/horns/canoes/paddles/bikes/harps Oshawa, Ontario http://home.istar.ca/~johnk Canadians don't surf the net, we paddle it.
Re: G1MRA Project Loco
My copy of the book is an old one, so I cannot tell you the page, but at the end of the description of making the axles, it tells you how to make this pin. There is also a drawing which in my copy does not show you that the end is turned to a 45 degree point, but this is described in the words. Peter Trounce. -- From: $B5L@n!!=c To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: G1MRA Project Loco Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 2:47 PM Please let me know in detail how to make the special pin for marking coupling rod on page 14 in the Project Book. Jun Kitsukawa 4-10-15 KugenumaSakuragaoka Fujisawa, Kanagawa 251-0027 JAPAN
Re: G1MRA Project Loco
John, G1MRA is the Gauge One Model Railway Association and the Project book is a detailed set of instructions on how to build a live-steam 0-6-0 loco. Go to: http://www.gaugeone.org/ to Resources and look for the Project book. A relatively simple loco to build and works extremely well, even if it is single-cylinder, but will pull a huge load. Peter Trounce. When you're finished, come and run it at our club near Ballantrae, not far from Oshawa. -- From: John Kowalchuk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: G1MRA Project Loco Date: Sunday, April 01, 2001 3:14 PM At 09:55 AM 4/1/01 -0400, Peter Trounce wrote: My copy of the book is an old one, so I cannot tell you the page, Which book is this and how do I get hold of it? John Kowalchuk maker of mutes/horns/canoes/paddles/bikes/harps Oshawa, Ontario http://home.istar.ca/~johnk Canadians don't surf the net, we paddle it.
Re: Guy Fawkes - YAK
Who was it wrote "God Rot Tunbridge Wells" ? I recall there was a miserable movie/TV play made of it, Peter. -- From: Tag Gorton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Guy Fawkes - YAK Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:32 PM on 21/3/01 8:07 am, Mike Chaney at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question;- What is Tunbridge Wells?. Not what, but where? It is (was!) a very genteel town in Kent - South East England for the geographically challenged. (England is part of an island on the Eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean.) Many years ago, "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" was the pseudonym used by a regular correspondent to (I think) the BBC - or was it The Times newspaper? - and the phrase has since been absorbed into the language. Some UK place names sound a bit odd when received on the other side of the pond. An American friend always found the town name "Dorking" - to be very amusing but I never did find out why. -- Yours Aye Tag Gorton Longlands Western Railway Co Trematon Office ICQ* 96182312
Re: G1MRA Project Loco
The tapped hole is for a 10BA hex head screw to represent a bolt on the full-sized loco, Peter Trounce -- From: $B5L@n!!=c To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: G1MRA Project Loco Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 2:32 PM I have a question about construction of G1MRA Project Loco. What for is tap 10BA of coupling rod? Jun Kitsukawa 4-10-15 KugenumaSakuragaoka Fujisawa, Kanagawa 251-0027 JAPAN
STRANGE
Now this IS strange. I just sent an answer to Mr. Kitsukawa's letter (I$B5L@n!!=cI) of today on the G1MRA Project Loco. And as I typed it, my letters all came up in GREEK !!! Try it please everyone and tell me I'm not bonkers, Peter.
Re: Guy Fawkes - YAK
In Canada we let off the fireworks on May 24 Queen Victoria's Birthday. In the US and A they do it on July 4, celebrating getting away from King George lll Peter -- From: Mike Chaney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Guy Fawkes - YAK Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 4:36 AM Peter wrote: Guy Fawkes and his group were burned at the stake, and this has been celebrated every year on this day . Wrong! The yobs start letting off louder and louder "bangers" earlier each year - usually starting in early October and continuing until the New Year. What used to be a bit of harmless fun on November 5th is increasingly becoming a right pain in the butt. "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" (I must be getting old!)
Re: STRANGE
You're a big help, you are !! (:-)) Peter -- From: John G Johnston III [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: STRANGE Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 9:46 AM You are bonkers! - John - Original Message - From: "Peter Trounce" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2001 8:39 AM Subject: STRANGE Now this IS strange. I just sent an answer to Mr. Kitsukawa's letter (I$B5L@n!!=cI) of today on the G1MRA Project Loco. And as I typed it, my letters all came up in GREEK !!! Try it please everyone and tell me I'm not bonkers, Peter.
Re: Guy Fawkes - YAK
"Remember, remember, The Fifth of November. Gunpowder, Treason and Plot. We know no reason Why gunpowder treason Should ever be forgot." Guy Fawkes and his group were burned at the stake, and this has been celebrated every year on this day with fireworks and burning effigys on bonfires. Ah, these sentimental Brits. !! Peter. -- From: Charles Brumbelow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Guy Fawkes - YAK Date: Saturday, March 17, 2001 8:42 AM Well, Tony . . . Wasn't he the "guy" who attempted more-or-less unsuccessfully to blow up the British government? Parliment building? And isn't there a British holiday in his honor (honour)? Charles Bet no one knows who Guy Fawkes was either!!!.
Re: Silver soldering - Digest #397
From Harry's posting, first time I've heard about Small Scale Steam Hobbyist magazine. Just looked up their spot on Vance Bass' site. Alas it's not cheap. To Canada $45 for four issues ($24 in the US). Which is C$ 70, plus tax and maybe mailing costs (?). So about C$20+ an issue. A bit too rich for me !! Peter Trounce. I would go into this further but I have an article which deals with this subject in depth appearing in the 3rd issue of Small Scale Steam Magazine so under the circumstances I shouldn't trot all that out here. Regards, Harry Wade Nashville, Tn
Re: Mikado exhaust
If the Mike is the Aster Mikado, which is alcohol fired, you will need the exhaust nozzle to be low down so that it can provide draught for the fire. So if you raise the nozzle, you may get into problems of not enough fire. the SR24 is I think gas-fired so draft from the exhaust is not needed, Peter Trounce. -- From: VR Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Mikado exhaust Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 11:38 AM I run a Mikado and a SR #24 and have noticed that the #24 always has a steam plum out of the stack while the Mikado seldom does. You can put your hand over the Mikado stack while running Just stick in your thumb and pull out a plum. :-) Seriously, Roundhouse uses an extension tube to carry the exhaust up to the top of the stack without mixing with the smokebox gases. The exhaust is presumably colder than the flue gases, so the steam is closer to condensing coming out of the cylinders. If it mixes with the flue gases, it's reheated and the water stays gaseous longer, giving it time to disperse before it condenses. So, next question is "what's the exhaust arrangement on the Mikado?" Does it have an exhaust nozzle at the bottom of the smokebox, or something similar? If so, then that's probably the problem. Can you cobble up something like the RH exhaust extension? Don't know -- I'll leave that one for those who have a Mike to examine in person. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Speaking of Steam
Alcohol-fired locos have no problem at all running in cold, even very cold, weather, Peter, (Canada) -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Speaking of Steam Date: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 5:16 PM In a message dated 01-02-28 16:08:29 EST, you write: SR24 is I think gas-fired so draft from the exhaust is not needed, Right you are it is butane fired. And speaking of steam. Looking at the ads in the new GR St.Aubin Station has listed under live steam an Excelsior 0-4-2, what is it??? Second question is Butane is a poor performer in cold weather so I am told. Am I correct in my assumption that this is not the case with "Meth" fired locos, that they run ok in cold weather. Salty CCBW
Re: Cleaning Engines
Clark, What is 409 ? Peter. -- From: Clark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cleaning Engines Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 2:13 AM I shudder to think some folks are cleaning engines with brake cleaner. Brake cleaner is super for degreasing parts before soldering, assembly and such. But not for a completed engine. To clean a engine use 409 right out of the bottle. Spray it on over everything. Use a tooth brush to get into the small spaces and a old two inch bristle brush on the rest of the superstructure. Rinse with your kitchen sprayer using warm water. Repeat with another shot of 409, scrub and rinse. Let the engine air dry and then oil the moving parts.
Re: Cleaning Engines
Thanks, Clark, Peter. -- From: Clark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cleaning Engines Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 3:52 PM It is a household cleaner in a spray bottle. The proper name is Formula 409 all purpose cleaner and is made by the Clorox company. You find it in the grocery store next to products like Comet, Brillo Pads, Draino and other household cleaners.
Re: Water pumps...
A couple of years ago, Aster produced an electric feedwater pump to be mounted in a Passenger car behind their T3 loco. It was an electric motor and ram pump with adjustable flow, run off batteries. Friend of mine had one, worked great. Batteries lasted well. I don't believe Aster would sell them separately at the time, but it's a workable solution, Peter. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Water pumps... Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 9:32 AM In a message dated 01-02-13 23:39:40 EST, you write: How about an electrically powered water pump, because the Ruby Maybe your Ruby is different from mine. Mine does not have insulated wheels so you could not use track power. A battery probably would not last too long or provide enough power. As for an axle driven or steam driven I have serious doubts that Ruby can produce enough power or steam to both drive the locomotive and a pump. Not only that the fuel supply usually runs out before the boiler runs dry. Hate to be a kill joy but thems the facts. Salty CCBW
Re: Oil lamps/acetylene
Jim, In my youth, acetylene bicycle lights were common, with a sump to hold the carbide and an adjustable water-drip to control the flame. And before my youth car headlights were run the same way. It's my understanding that acetylene has no particular danger unless you try to compress it. It will only be yellow and smoky if it doesn't get enough air to burn properly. Peter Trounce. -- From: Jim Curry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Oil lamps/acetylene Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:33 AM Kevin: Acetylene is an explosive gas which burns with a yellow flame and lots of soot from a burning torch unless you enrich the mixture with oxygen. Burning torches are required to have flame arrestors attached to the inlet side to prevent a flame from wicking back into the hose/regulator/storage bottle and causing and explosion. I've never seen miniature adaptations for what you're discussing. What you're getting into is adding an explosive gas generator to the side or front of a hot container (boiler/smokebox) for the generation/distribution/burning of the acetylene. I'm not trying to throw cold water on your oil lamp idea, but I can't imagine how you can design a safe acetylene system. Jim
Re: Inkjet decal paper
I've done a small amount of trying to make waterslide decals with an ink-jet printer and there is one basic problem. Inkjet colours are dyes which are almost transparent. If you notice, the ads. for the waterslide paper show finished decals usually applied to white surfaces. Like on white paper the decal shows up nicely, but try that decal on a black or dark surface, and it plain disappears. Even those made on an ALPS printer (which can give you a base white pigment layer) are very thin on a dark surface. So you either have to use decals on white paper, which means that you have to cut neatly round the decal edges, or you have to lay down a white area, on which to put the decal. Presumably, commercial decals use pigments ? Peter. -- From: Clark Lord [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Inkjet decal paper Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001 6:15 PM Vance: Thank you for your informative reply. I was aware of most of your points but I have not actually tried making decals myself. I am sneaking up on building my Mikado kit (It has been normalizing for a year while resting under the workbench.) and I want to make my own decals. After reading your RGB/CMYK discussions I believe my HP722c Deskjet printer uses the CMYK method for color. I know that RGB color is more like TV where different combinations of red, green and blue are placed next to one another and this forms the color image we see. Where the CMYK method is akin to process color printing where the different colors (CMYK) are laid on top of one another to get the final result. Four different printing plates are needed, one for each color. This is how color magazines are printed. So the problem remains for the hobbyist who is making his own color decals. What to use? What results can you expect? How much will it cost? Is it within my technical ability? That's why I posted what I did so maybe some answers could be found. I agree that buying 100 sheets of specialty paper is way too much. However my suggestion was to buy the starter paper kit for $16.95 which included enough stuff for five 8.5"x11" sheets of decals. Thank you Gary Lane for informing us as to using water slide paper and the local color copy house. That seems to be a pretty good solution provided you can do the art work. I do have MS Publisher, Corel Draw and Paint Shop Pro to fool around with to see if I can do the art. Failing that then I'm left with Vance's suggestion of going to a commercial decal house for both the art work and finished product. That sounds like to me. Almost time for Diamondhead 2001. I'll be there Wednesday morning providing the weather in Dallas is flyable. (LV-Dallas-NO) Clark VR Bass wrote: Clark, Inkjet decals have a number of serious problems: the ink is not water-proof (can be clear-coated, however); the ink is not UV-resistant (it fades in the sunlight); the ink is not very opaque, so the color underneath tends to show through your decal; inkjets will only print RGB images (colors made of red, green and blue). The last is not a problem as long as your image is made only of these colors. The reason so many hobbyists (and many companies) have started using Alps printers is that the thermal wax printing method doesn't have these problems. The wax is water-proof, though it must be clear-coated if it's going to be handled. The pigments are UV-resistant and very opaque. You can print CMYK (cyan-magenta-yellow-black) as well as silver, gold and white. The bad news is that Alps no longer imports these printers, though Okidata has licensed the technology and there's a user movement to get them to make the printers available again here. The worse news is that almost no one has been satisfied with the ink-jet decals. You'd be better off making yourself a silk-screen table and learning how to make them the old-fashioned way (it's not really that hard). In short, I would say you shouldn't buy 100 sheets of ink-jet paper without trying one first to see if you like the results. There's a guy who does model decals full-time on Alps printers who's doing work for Hartford Products and others. I can give you his e-mail address if you're interested. -vance-
Re: Bassett Lowke Live Steam LMS Mogul
Trent, Their ad. in November "Continental Modeller" says: Spirit-fired, O-gauge, sprung buffers, operating whistle, measuring container, funnel, luboil, forward/reverse controller, instructions, leatherette presentation case, length of display track, £699. There is also a picture, but no doubt it has been "rendered", Peter Trounce. -- From: Trent Dowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bassett Lowke Live Steam LMS Mogul Date: Friday, December 29, 2000 3:04 PM Hello Mike and list, Thanks for the input on the Bassett Lowke. Hope you don't mind, but I really want to pick your brain on a few things. What about the detail work? Is it up to today's quality standards? I'm not expecting "Aster quality", but am hoping for exceptionally good value for the money. How is the engine fired? I read somewhere that they were butane, then only a while later was told that they were meths fired. Neither source spoke of whether the boiler was internal or externally fired. Does it come with everything needed for running? By that, I mean does it come with a displacement lubricator, pressure gauge, sight glass, etc., or do items need to be purchased or built to bring it to the typical running configuration of most of our steamers? Is the tender an actual working model or simply for show? Any other amenities such as a whistle, hand water feed, or Goodall valve? I haven't been able to find any good pictures or detailed spec sheet on the engine. Anyone know of information residing on the web somewhere? Any other information that you or anyone else wishs to share will be much appreiciated. Sorry for so many questions, but for some odd reason this particular engine sparked a serious interest. My interest usually lie within gauge 1 American narrow gauge logging or industrial. Oh well, so much for standardization, huh? I'll just call it, "broadening my interest". Thanks, Trent
Re: Intro and Elevated Railways
Tony, In my experience when the water runs out in an alcohol-fired loco, the fire usually keeps going at a low rate, and is not easy to blow out, particularly if the supply valve is still open. I'm talking locos with wicks in an enclosed firebox (pot boilers are something else). The problem then is not so much a boiler meltdown, but the paintwork, because there are lazy flames coming out the bottom. Some folk now use a CO2 cartridge to kill the flame. Peter Trounce. -- From: manufacturer of trains [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Intro and Elevated Railways Date: Friday, December 08, 2000 6:26 AM At 16:58 06-12-00 -0800, you wrote: Time is of the essence when a engine stops because it has run out of water and the burner is still on. Boiler and paint damage can occur in just a few seconds. You usually have around 30 seconds to shut off a gas fired engine and around a minute to kill the fire on an alcohol fired engine. Clark err Clark just what kind of alcohol fueled loco do you run? An normal metho steamer will let the fire go out due to the fact that there is no draught to draw the fire. This is why we suggest that some First timers use a metho loco, until they become proficient in the use ( with some the abuse) of the locos. Then they can upgrade to another type of fuel firing type of loco. "methylated spirits" metho in Oz Tony Cotton ECOB Adelaide Loco Works South Australia Ph/fax intl -61-8-82484430
Re: ssBoilers
Same experience here. So I just rejoined again and got the photo. Which was nothing to do with models. I don't know if the thought was that this would happen to one of our boilers if "not properly attended." If so, I'd like to know what model has actually done this in the last 100+ years of model building ? Peter Trounce. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ssBoilers Date: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:09 PM In a message dated 00-12-07 07:51:38 EST, you write: I,ve uploaded a photo of what happens to your boiler when not properly attended to. http://www.egroups.com/files/small_scale_steam_models/Locomotives/Boiler+Exp lo sion.jpg Well I tried this and it tells me that I am not a member of small_scale_steam_models and I do not have access!! Maybe I should be, How do I get to be a member of this list? Salty
Re: raised letters
When I made a pattern to cast 1 1/2" scale wheels, I created lettering using Dymo tape letters which self-stick to the pattern. Did a nice job, but I don't know if Dymo make letters small enough for your wheels. You could check their website. Also wonder if craft stores like Michaels sell stick=on lettering ? Peter Trounce.
Re: A Boiler
It has always surprised me that advice is given in designs to finish off a boiler shell in the lathe, by putting a wooden plug in the end and machining between centres. Copper is a "sticky" material at the best of times, almost sure to catch on the lathe tool. Very much easier is to hacksaw it to rough length and finish with a coarse file to length. I mark off the line to cut to, by wrapping round the barrel a sheet of paper of the needed size, tape it in place and then using a felt pen to blacken the copper at the edge of the paper. Put a 2 by 4 or similar in the vice, slip the tube over, and hacksaw along your line an inch at a time. Works well, looks good. Peter. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: A Boiler Date: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 1:00 PM After having a traumatic Friday evening of completing a boiler and deciding that I needed to cut it shorter and destroying it in the lathe (tool caught the edge), I rebuilt all the parts in a power marathon in the shop (6 hrs.). The result is probably the best put together boiler I have built to date. I guess when you get focused things can go right! Anyway, here are some pics, if you are interested: http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/boiler1.jpg http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/boiler2.jpg http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/boiler3.jpg The moral of the story is to complete each part before you assemble! Bob Starr
Re: Mikado, minimum radius
One thing about smooth curves that needs watching is the rail joints. Tenmille track is Code 192 and is reasonably easy to spring round without prebending, but Code 250 and 375 are stiff and it's easy to get the rail ends way off a smooth curve, and although the outer rail is not too bad, if the inner rail is off, it will reduce track gauge at the joint. An ordinary track gauge does not pick this up, but the loco will. It does help if the joint on the outer rail is not opposite the inner rail joint by a fair distance. Eyeballing is not really good enough, it seems. The tighter the radius, the more the proper curve of the rail ends matters. Peter Trounce. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Mikado, minimum radius Date: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 10:30 AM In a message dated 10/25/00 3:01:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about some of the other larger live steam locomotives? Will they handle the two meter radius? I saw the new Accucraft C-16 live steamer last weekend (pic on FSOL if you're interested.) It has blind center drivers like the prototype, and Accucraft assure me it will go round LGB 1600 curves, which I think are about 4' radius. I did not the front pilot looks to have tight clearances - so fitting smaller wheels might help. An interesting set of comments/responses to this minimum radius question. My suspicion is that some folks track is quite as smooth a curve as they think! I know my 10' radius half-circle in the front yard (specially built to be 3 meters, so I can buy an Aster A4 'Mallard' sometime,) isn't a perfect curve - you can see minor kinks where I didn't quite get it nailed to the battens correctly. And I speak from bitter experience when I say that it is very easy to make your turnouts not quite perfect. From check rail gaps that are too tight, to curves that go a little sharper than they are supposed to, I've made all the mistakes and sometimes even my Bachmann engines complain! Pete
Re: Loco Steam Model Engineers
Jun, In the current G1MRA Newsletter there is a letter from Mike Wade that he had an illness at the end of 1999, and has had to take it easy this year, and that LocoSteam would be reducing the size of their business in future. So probably that is the reason that you have heard nothing on your order, Peter Trounce. -- From: $B5L@n!!=c(B [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Loco Steam Model Engineers Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:25 AM I ordered cylinder kit and boiler kit by money order on 4 July , 2000. And I ordered screw link and coupling by money order on 31 August , 2000. But I have not received them yet . I sent a letter of inquiry twice. I don't hear from Loco Steam. I wonder what is Loco Steam? Jun Kitsukawa 4-10-15 KugenumaSakuragaoka Fujisawa Kanagawa 251-0027 JAPAN
Re: Mikado, minimum radius
Peter, Just t'aint so. I don't know any Aster which will not go happily round 9 foot radius curves. That's what we had on our show track and Hudsons, a Big Boy, a French 2-8-2, you name it, went round at any likely speed without binding, on commercial Tenmille track. My own track is 10 foot radius and I've had an Aster 4-8-4 Daylight run OK by a visitor. I wonder about your friend's track though, if it was built too narrow on gauge ? One thing that can happen, is that in screwing down a track to the base, particularly with plastic ties, if the screws are in the centre of the ties and overtightened, the tie will lift at the ends, and narrow the gauge enough to cause binding. My Aster 141R 2-8-2 has also run on hand-laid 7ft 6in radius happily, but the owner had widened the gauge a bit on the curves. Hope this helps, Peter Trounce. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Mikado, minimum radius Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 9:39 AM In a message dated 10/24/00 3:01:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aster says it's rated to 2 meter radius. I was at a local 'steam up' this weekend and showed the host my new #6 turnout kit from Old Pullman (photo on FSOL if you're interested.) He told me that most of the Aster locos prefer much wider curves than advertised - they bind horribly on #6 (10') radius curves. He didn't say they wouldn't go through - but he showed me all his turnouts are now #10 (25' radius.) Pete Peter Thornton Annapolis, MD
Re: Aster needs 50 foot diameter curves?
Absolutely no problem, Gary, with any Aster that I know of on 10foot radius curves. Period. Big Boy, Northern and on down. Track should be to normal standards, nothing special. Preferably not 100+ mph round corners !!! For reverse S-curves, it is desirable to have some straight or easing between the curves to avoid the overscale sideways throw-over, particularly with long cars. Peter Trounce. -- From: Gary Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Aster needs 50 foot diameter curves? Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:39 PM I agree that larger curves and switches look and work better for more engines, but do Aster's really need 50 foot diameter curves in the switch to run through without binding? A 10' radius switch has a 20' diameter... I am just panicking because I designed all my curves to be 20 feet diameter and now wonder if Asters can negotiate the trestle. http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy/ Gary Lane Eugene, OR
Re: Mikado, minimum radius
Six feet radius ? Ouch, pretty squeezy. OK for 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 but not too much beyond is my guess. Pity to limit the visitors you can welcome, if there's any way round it. Peter Trounce. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Mikado, minimum radius Date: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:10 PM Well that information is good to know. I will have to adjust my plan to get the two meter radius. I was planning on a six foot radius for the main line as my space is somewhat limited. but do not want to limit what I will be able to run on this layout. Some day I hope to have a "Mike", but my wife says no more locomotives until I get a layout built. I wonder what she is going to say when I tell her I want to spend $4000 + on an engine What about some of the other larger live steam locomotives? Will they handle the two meter radius? Salty Portland OR
Re: Why won't this work?
As I understand Landon's idea, what he has done is to take the components of a Stephenson's valve gear, and split it so that one eccentric is on the next axle, facing backwards. And then connected the two eccentric eyes with a straight link, the two eccentrics being timed at 180 degrees to each other, so that when the link is up you get one timing, when it is down you get the other. Will it work ? I think the short answer is yes indeed it will work. Proportions will have to be worked out properly to avoid snags as the things rotate, but that is normal. The 180 degrees will need a look at, because valves move at odd timing relative to forwards and reverse, but no matter. There is one thing about this design which can only be worked out by putting it on paper. Does it notch-up properly ? Stephenson's advances timing as it is notched up. Does this one ? It would not if the eccentrics are at 180 degrees, but they probly won't be. Can't think through that one, though. But in our sizes, notching up is probably irrelevant, one timing for go, and one for reverse. But on the straight-link idea, absolutely OK. There is a recent Aster loco with Allan's straight-link design. http://www.sell-it-easy.de/fulgurex/english/ Scroll to the T3 loco. Peter Trounce.
Re: Boiler Making
Salty, There are two copies on: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/IList Peter Trounce. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Boiler Making Date: Friday, October 06, 2000 2:04 PM In a message dated 00-10-03 11:44:42 EDT, you write: To my mind one of the best references is "Model Boilers and Boilermaking" by K. N. Harris. It is a great overview and comparison of all types of model boilers. It has enough practical information and data (properties of saturated steam, evaporation rates, etc.) to give anyone the confidence to design and build a boiler for a particular application. I have been looking for that book for over a year and cannot locate a copy. Any suggestions as to where I can get a copy? Salty
Re: Roundhouse Boiler
Steve, What you need to do here is to remove the centre 1" of the boiler support foot horizontal leg (file it back flush). Then take the 1/4" square brass cross-member and saw out the centre 1", leaving two bits 1/2" long which will be bolted to the frames as intended. So now you have a clear 1" space to use for the "firebox" sheetmetal. Hope I've made that clear. Peter Trounce. -- From: Shyvers, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Roundhouse Boiler Date: Friday, October 06, 2000 6:27 PM Peter, After fitting the alcohol firebox to the Roundhouse boiler how did you support the back end of the boiler? My Roundhouse boiler has a mounting foot brazed to the backhead directly below the flue entrance. I could not see an easy way to fit a firebox and duct to the flue without enclosing this foot and making it unuseable as a boiler support. Steve Shyvers
Re: Roundhouse Boiler
Steve, Converting a Roundhouse boiler to alcohol firing is OK. I did it with my Lady Anne exactly as described, making a sheetmetal box underneath leading around the back and sealing to the boiler shell and backplate with silicone rubber caulk. There is nothing destructive about doing it this way, and the added bit can easily be removed if wanted. You will need a steam blower nozzle in the smokebox for draught, but that is straightforward too. As to efficiency, this is what current Asters do, gluing thin ceramic insulating sheet inside the metal box, using silicone as glue. Peter Trounce. -- From: Shyvers, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Roundhouse Boiler Date: Thursday, October 05, 2000 4:11 PM Vance, You suggested the idea of "fitting a firebox to the rear of the RH boiler and installing a vaporizing alcohol or ceramic butane burner." I would think that the efficiency of an add-on firebox would be low because most of its radiating surface area would not be exposed to water. Prototype locomotive fireboxes had water on multiple sides of the firebox. If one were to try a vaporizing alcohol burner, then an add-on firebox might shield the wicks and stabilize the burner temperature to help maintain the vaporization process. Most of the fire would be in the central flue and not in the firebox. This would be a relatively easy modification to a Roundhouse boiler, and it could be removed if necessary. The add-on firebox could attach to the existing threaded holes on either side of the flue. At one time I considered converting a Roundhouse boiler to a C-type by adding an enclosure around the back flue entrance. An alcohol burner (wicks) would be positioned below the boiler surrounded by the firebox. I abandoned the idea because I thought that the small clearance between the flue and the bottom of the boiler might cause problems. (Is there a rule that governs this clearance?) Also I did not see an easy way to achieve a good seal between the firebox and the bottom of the boiler without soldering. Finally, I did not want to mess up the only Roundhouse boiler I had, so I decided that it would be easier, and cheaper, to build an experimental C-type from copper pipe.
Re: Roundhouse Boiler
Steve, Silicone is wonderful stuff !! Peter. -- From: Shyvers, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Roundhouse Boiler Date: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:21 PM Peter, Thank you very much for your response regarding the Roundhouse boiler modification. I did not know that silicone sealant was so tolerant of high temperatures. I had thought of using furnace cement, which contains portland cement, to seal the firebox, but I was concerned about its corrosive effect on the boiler. Steve Shyvers
Re: Boiler Making
The "Project" boiler is certainly an excellent one for making steam, but some folk have had difficulties as a first small boiler, particularly with the centre flue and cross-tubes leaking after silver-soldering. The "Type C" design, which is now used extensively by Aster, is easier to make than the Project, because it has no firebox and the centre-flue does straight through the boiler, with an external metal box as firebox, which certainly works but does take some skill to get things right. But I don't know where one would get a drawing, except by copying an Aster or in old G1MRA Newsletters. I guess too, that it depends what one wants to build. Since "G scale" is mentioned, maybe narrow-gauge is the thing, where Roundhouse locos are preeminent I think, and gas-firing is king, with centre-flues the standard. So a good look at a Roundhouse loco could be the way to go. Peter Trounce.
Re: Boiler Making
Very good thought, Vance, since Roundhouse will sell the boiler separately, Peter. An excellent suggestion -- they're dead simple and have proven quite workable over the years. Or, if you're not intent on building a boiler for its own sake, perhaps just buying a ready-made Roundhouse boiler would be the way to go? regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Hekemian Steamup
Walt, Would enjoy seeing photos of the Steamup. Do you know if anyone is likely to be putting pictures up that we can see ? Peter Trounce. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Hekemian Steamup Date: Monday, September 11, 2000 8:44 PM
Re: How wide should I make the right-of-way?
My 24" Darjeeling stuff is 5" wide and 6 1/2" high on Gauge 1 track. One plus is that vehicle lengths are fairly short so there isn't as much overhang to the inside of curves. Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: VR Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: How wide should I make the right-of-way? Date: Friday, September 08, 2000 1:12 AM What happens if you decide to get some 7/8n2 equipment? Plan for some of that to show up, even if you never get any. How big is it? I don't know -- but there are some M scale guys on the list, I believe. -vance-
Re: Hi
Hi Dan, Glad to see you are on the List. Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: Dan Pantages [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Hi Date: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:30 PM Hi to all. My name is Dan Pantages and I am a steam fanatic. Some of you know me but for those that don't here is a very brief rundown on me. I live in Canada in a city called Surrey which is a suburb of Vancouver and is about 20 minutes from the border at Blaine Washington. I5 connects to our highway 99 which goes through Surrey.
Re: Denatured versus Ethyl Alcohol
Vance, Up here in Canada, Methanol is the standard fuel for locos. Obtainable at almost any hardware store as Methyl Hydrate. Burns well and clean. Don't drink it, but otherwise safe. We have used it indoors in basements and Train Shows and we're all still here ! I believe it is used in camp stoves. Sold in gallon plastic jugs for about $5. Cheers, Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: VR Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Denatured versus Ethyl Alcohol Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 1:35 AM Chuck, you are now using ethyl alcohol. "Denatured" means they add enough methanol to make you puke if you try to drink it, hence the British term "methylated spirits" or "meths" for short. Walt's warning about getting "pure" ethanol is a good one, but keep in mind that alcohol is hygroscopic, which means that it tends to take water out of the atmosphere. You'll never get completely pure ethanol unless you let it drip from the still right into your fuel tank, but the longer you let the gallon can sit open to the atmosphere, the more water it will take on until it's about 70% alcohol. Probably, buying a quart at a time would be more economical since you'd use all or most of it before it took on too much water. As for burning characteristics, it's the long-term classic fuel for a reason. Methanol is rumored to be even better, but it's highly toxic and thus very hard to find. -vance-
Re: Denatured versus Ethyl Alcohol PLUS track radii
Richard, Asters like K4's are quite happy running around 9 feet radius curves, and will go smaller if steps are taken to widen gauge on the curves. I have run my 141R (2-8-2) on 7ft6in radius curves quite happily. Please don't ask me the gauge widening, because I don't recall. Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: Richard Finlayson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Denatured versus Ethyl Alcohol PLUS track radii Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 12:01 PM Dan Pantages has been running the boarder with the hooch for three years now... we swap for butane and the NSS. Canadian hooch has been the official meths fuel for the NSS during that time. Sam DiMaggio will back me up on this: he was operating Dan Liebowitz's new Southern Mikado on a break in run and the locomotive was lethargic. Couldn't maintain steam pressure for a full lap on the track. He sucked the Home Depot stuff out of the tank (probably Listerine cut with paint remover) and replaced it with the hooch. The locomotive leapt into action. Great pressure and a normal consumption rate. I was impressed. There have been pix in SitG and on the site of my much modified (ne hammered) PLM 4-6-0. I've had to modify/trim the wicks on that loco for use with the hooch because it was overpowering the previous wick settings and density. Home Depot Listerine was used previously with good result, but with the hooch and a tuning that locomotive sings. I tried Listerine with the new wick settings and the loco has the same lethargic response as described above with Dan's loco. That's a very unscientific stream of consciousness but that's the story and I'm sticking to it. New topic if you don't mind: as therapy for the absolute mayhem/madness that is my life as we remodel our house I have started to unofficially lay out my new railroad. (There's an excavator bigger than my house sitting in the proposed spot right now. Cool hardware, wish they'd let me drive.) I want the new track to accommodate some Aster locos but it will be built as a 1:20.3 narrow gauge railroad. Doing the Aster math on their recommendation for 2m radii for the Aster locos I have that comes out to 6' 7". Does anyone have any experience actually running on a 2m or 6'7" track with a K4 or Mikado for instance? I will be space constrained due to my lack of negotiation skills... keeping it down to 2m would be nice but I don't want to build the logical minimum but have an impractical/useless track for the bigger locos. If 2m doesn't really work I'll just build a narrow gauge railroad to 5' radii and drop in unannounced at my friend's homes to use their bigger tracks. :-) Later! -Richard At 5:18 AM -0700 8/24/00, Peter Trounce wrote: I believe it is used in camp stoves. Sold in gallon plastic jugs for about $5. Finlayson calls it "Canadian hooch." ;-) \dmc *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* +*+ David M. Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Editor Publisher: The Cole Papers; NEWSINC.V: (650) 557-9595 Consultant: The Cole Group http://colegroup.com/ F: (650) 557-9696 On the road again ... *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+* +*+*+*+*+E == Richard Finlayson Check out: http://www.steamup.com "Steam In The Garden Online"
Re: eye yi yi
Vance, A small word of advice, if I may. A good friend of mine had the same procedure and was warned not to do any lifting etc. One day he lifted the baby out of its buggy, retina detached again. Now he's in bad shape. Some medical advice needs heeding, Peter Trounce. -- From: VR Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: eye yi yi Date: Saturday, August 05, 2000 5:21 PM How goes the eye repair. Assume the surgery was successful. Roger, thanks for asking. Yes, the surgery seems to have been successful and I am getting the vision back gradually in that eye. And I'm not sleeping most of the day anymore. It will be another two to four weeks before it's totally back to normal, but I seem to be making rapid progress. I wouldn't recommend getting a retinal detachment just for the thrill, but the medical procedures to correct it are incredibly advanced now so it's not the terrifying event is would have been 30 years ago. -vance-
Re: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Gauge plate
But why would anyone want to harden the frames ? The softest steel or a bit of brass will last your lifetime. Just hacksaw it out and file up. No problem. It's like folk want to use silver steel/drill rod for axles. For heavens sake, why ? Free-machining steel is the greatest for this. Peter Trounce. -- From: VR Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Gauge plate Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 5:20 PM The Word from the Authoritative Source. Given this, I think using a jeweler's saw or piercing saw would definitely work (it's annealed), filing to final shape, followed by heating to cherry red then hardening in water. -vance- --- Forwarded message follows --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent:Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:16:16 EDT Subject: Re: (Fwd) Gauge plate To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vance Gauge plate is Flat Ground Steel plate. Usually an annealed tool steel. Bob --- End of forwarded message ---
Re: Aster Alcohol
Joe, I can only guess that Aster provide alcohol-fired locos because that's what the customers go for. They used to have, mainly for the US market, butane fired locos such as the Hudson and K4, but the great majority have been alcohol from their beginning. Alcohol-firing does have advantages, outside of cold weather operation (I have run at well-below freezing temperatures). Alcohol burns silently. Aster butane burners can be noisy. Butane can be difficult to find, and expensive. Butane can cause a boiler meltdown, if you run out of water. Alcohol (for other than a pot boiler) requires a blower when standing which is a bit closer to prototype practice. Alcohol does have its disadvantages, such as fires due to overflows, but this is mostly a learning curve, and is rare at get-togethers. An alcohol fire is easily put out by pouring water over it. But it's very interesting that the 16mm narrow-gauge group are nearly all butane. Why ? Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: Joe Betsko [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Aster Alcohol Date: Monday, April 03, 2000 8:59 PM Hello! I note that Aster primarily supplies locos that run on alcohol. Does anyone know why Aster prefers alcohol? And I'm not taking about Beefeaters! :-) I understand that alcohol offers some advantage over butane in cold weather. Are there other advantages? -- Regards, Joe Betsko Pennsylvania USA
Re: Aster Screwdriver Kit
Joe, I have an untouched Aster Grasshopper Kit available. If you are interested in it, please contact me off-list, Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: Joe Betsko [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Aster Screwdriver Kit Date: Saturday, March 18, 2000 8:26 PM Geoff, Thanks for your wise and sage advice. For now, I will safely keep it under advisement. I have called around for the Aster B O Grasshopper. Unfortunately, there are none available at the retail level unless someone knows otherwise, I am interested in the kit. Feel free to contact me off list. I am looking forward at some point to learn more about live steam engines by assembling one. I believe a modest-sized engine would be a great starting point. Thanks again...
Re: Check out International Working Steam Locomotives 2000
Lee, They both work for me with a simple click. I don't know nuffin about HTML Code, though, Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: Lee Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Check out International Working Steam Locomotives 2000 Date: Saturday, February 12, 2000 3:24 AM Thanx Art. Here's a tip: When you send a link thru the mail, leave spaces at EACH END of the URL itself, and it comes across as a "clickable" working URL link. For instance: http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/internat.htm is a clickable link "as is" here. Whereas: A HREF="http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/internat.htm"Click here: International Working Steam Locomotives 2000/A is not. Even tho the second one IS an Anchor TAG right out of HTML code, it ONLY works as a link while imbedded IN HTML code. The first then IS the actual URL the code calls. Thanx again for the great site reference, WOW! What a resource.. Lee -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 1:22 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Check out International Working Steam Locomotives 2000 Members may be interested in this site of Rob Dickinsons. Plenty to delight enthusists for all gauges. I am presently working through Rob's 'Zafra' CD which has a fantastic gallery of US locos in Cuba. Hope some of you guys are saving your dimes to repatriate a few when Castro goes. Art Walker, Guildford UK A HREF="http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/internat.htm"Click here: International Working Steam Locomotives 2000/A
Re: Books magazines ( Henry Greenly)
Nice piece of work, Lee. The CS Mogul is indeed Walschaert's Gear, but simplified in that there is no combination lever, hence "notching-up" is not possible. Aster much earlier fitted the "Schools" and "King Arthur" locos with another but different variation. Stephenson Gear was fitted to many locos as an outside gear, particularly early Victorians of different nations, and as recent as British Rail. Peter Trounce, Toronto.
Re: Books magazines ( Henry Greenly)
Lee, Attach site of #44767 "George Stephenson" with the outside gear. I'll see if I can find something better for you, Peter. http://www.freefoto.com/pictures/transport_rail_steam/nymr/index.asp?i=6 -- From: Lee Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Books magazines ( Henry Greenly) Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:56 PM Thanx for the comment. Do you have any illustrations of an outside Stephenson's? I guess my speculation on that issue was off base. I would have thought it to be a nightmare to try to implement. Lee -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Trounce Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 4:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: Books magazines ( Henry Greenly) Nice piece of work, Lee. The CS Mogul is indeed Walschaert's Gear, but simplified in that there is no combination lever, hence "notching-up" is not possible. Aster much earlier fitted the "Schools" and "King Arthur" locos with another but different variation. Stephenson Gear was fitted to many locos as an outside gear, particularly early Victorians of different nations, and as recent as British Rail. Peter Trounce, Toronto.
Re: Books magazines ( Henry Greenly)
Lee, I'll scan a couple of pix and send them to you. Can't send them via List, alas, Peter. -- From: Lee Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Books magazines ( Henry Greenly) Date: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:56 PM Thanx for the comment. Do you have any illustrations of an outside Stephenson's? I guess my speculation on that issue was off base. I would have thought it to be a nightmare to try to implement. Lee -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Trounce Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 4:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: Books magazines ( Henry Greenly) Nice piece of work, Lee. The CS Mogul is indeed Walschaert's Gear, but simplified in that there is no combination lever, hence "notching-up" is not possible. Aster much earlier fitted the "Schools" and "King Arthur" locos with another but different variation. Stephenson Gear was fitted to many locos as an outside gear, particularly early Victorians of different nations, and as recent as British Rail. Peter Trounce, Toronto.
Re: SSlive steamers .
I think that Gerd came out the prizewinner on that one, Charley !! But a Bronze for Effort anyway, Peter Trounce, Toronto. -- From: Charley Lix [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: SSlive steamers . Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 7:11 PM Guten Tag , Gerd , Ich heise Charley Lix , Ich wohne in Sparks , Nevada USA . Erste scribte auf Duetsche ! Hofe ich , Sie deise verstahen werde . Ich Au felte Das kleine Dampf lok , Ich habe jetze eine Garten Bahn ab 32 mm Gauge zu 7/8ths inch scale ? Ich kaufen wollen eine grosser Dampf lokey , eine O.S. engines "KRAUSS" or eine "Maxi- Trax" "Dixie" aber vie leicht das krauss is gekauft fur sehr gut Zahle ? Ich denn das Krauss gekauft , Das Maxi-Trax Lokey ist sehr viele geld , und schwere fur mich zu kaufe . Aber gekaufen durch drei oder vehre jarhe vie leicht .. Das gekaufte im "stages " erste .. zwieten etc .. Welcome to the list , Gut information an das Feldbahnen lok und diene Web seite ist sehr interesiert .. Ich auch sehen haben deine grupe im Garden Rail . Amuse toi bien Have Fun - Charley my name is Gerhard (Gerd) Karl and i live in Mainz, a town at the river Rhine , in Germany. I had been a livesteamer (3-1/2" and 5" gauges) for a long time and now go to the smaller gauges and plan to build a garden railroad with 32 and 45 mm gauges. My special interest is in 'Feldbahnen (light rr or trench rr) and common carrier railroads with a gauge of 600mm (prototype). All above 760mm gauge for me is broad gauge :
Re: Re: exact scale live steam
Scan on its way now to David and Carlo, Peter. -- From: David M. Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: exact scale live steam Date: Thursday, November 04, 1999 12:03 PM At 7:38 AM -0800 11/4/99, Peter Trounce wrote: Question to List Owner: I forget the List ground rules. Is it a no-no to put the photo as an Email attachment ? Yes, but I have a web site ... just e-mail the jpeg to me personally ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) and I'll post the picture and send out a URL for the list. Thanks. --- Dave Cole Daly City, Calif. USA List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
