Re: The SM2 downgrade
Martin Freitag wrote: Graham schrieb: Martin Freitag wrote: Graham schrieb: First there's the need to provide your master password when you start it. Yes, I know it's been complained about at length, but how on earth could something like that slip through the development process? Do the developers not use master passwords? If it only asks once, what'S your problem? Is it possible that you have fetching mails on start without opening MailNews enabled in the preferences and it needs your Master-PW for that? Because there are times when I do not want my passwords etc. to be automatically dished up by the browser. In other words, I want it to work like SM 1 did, which is to ask when the master password is first required (as the option states). If you fetch mail in start, wouldn't it be required then? It's possible that you have to disable that functionality in the preferences to get rid of an initial asking for the Master-PW. If I have to run the browser with the master password permanently permanently provided, then there's not a whole lot of point having a master password at all. Oh there is, it encrypts your passwords on the disk ;-) Second it is just mind-numbingly slow. It takes for ever to resolve site addresses and forever to download web pages. It often just times out. SM 1.1.18 has no problems at all, on the exact same system (neither does Opera). I've never heared that before about SM2 compared to SM1, I would recommend testing with another profile or in safe-mode. Nice to hear you tried... Flashblock will not install. It just gets itself into an install loop: every time you start SM 2.0.1, Flashblock tries to install again. Flashblock works like a charm in SM2, that's another reason I think your SM2-installation and/or profile is not ok. Well, it got itself into this state all by itself, and didn't work right from the very moment it was installed. Looks like you're not even willing to find a solution, but just complaining about the current state, this won't get you any further, sry. When flashblock works fine for all others you should consider your setup being corrupted somehow. This might even be your file-system and not SM itself. The new download progress dialog's ridiculous small buttons are another issue, but this has been beaten to death (and I wish this new design had been). As you already read about it, feel free to create an improved version ;) Ah yes, that childish response. The answer to all criticism of any open source project. Well I hear a bit too often, too. But there's some truth in it. I would prefer a different functionality too but I don't have the time/knoweledge (yet?) to change it myself. I'm using the download statusbar extension for now. regards Martin I tried status bar and while it works, despite Download Manager's tensey weensy buttons and indicators. I found download manager far better. After I got it to work. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: only one blank tab on new browser - problem is back, and worse
Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Not too long ago, I wrote about a problem when starting SM2.01 where I would not get my home pages loaded. It seemed to resolve itself when I did a disk clean. However, the problem is back, and it is worse than ever. Whatever startup option, either for the browser startup or just a new window, and whatever option - home page, current selected group of tabs, previous session... - all of them produce only a single blank tab. The same thing happens when I try to open a link from my desktop or from another program. Or when I click on a saved web page. What's worse is I then tried to create a new profile and see if it the problem persisted. The first time I started SM in this new profile it ran as expected. There was of course no home page, so I set one and tried to restart SM. NOTHING at all happened. It would not even bring up the profile manager. Reinstalling also did not help. What finally brought SM back up was removing the profiles.ini file from the profiles directory. The newly created profile has the same problem as the old one, so I had the new profiles.ini reference my existing profile and removed the two other ones. I have now tried to install an extra copy of SM in a new location. I'm getting the same results. Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance. Its a Bug. there are two ways it will happen. you can over come it but it always comes back. If you happen to not have Preference Appearance Browser and Mail news both checked. It is guaranteed that you will see this. And when you go to the section Browser make sure that the name for your Home page doesn't have an extra space. I do have both Browser and MailNews checked. and both of them do start up. And I do have the problem. Not only when starting, but any new browser window. In about:config I cannot find any extra spaces in my home page names. Is there another place I should check where an extra space could be hiding? If it's a bug that can be overcome I could live with it but now it's really bothersome. Margo Try go to your home page after seeing about:blank then try going to Preferences Browser in the new Box for desired page delete the URL for your home page remove all characters including spaces and any returns. next click use click use current page. next quit out preferences. Quit out of SeaMonkey. restart SeaMonkey. Should go to your home page. should last about next 10 or so start ups. and you'll have to do it again. No such luck. I never got to my homepage. It just starts with the blank tab. Put in your home page where the about:blank is then go to it. The go to preference Browser and set up your Home page. I don't follow this last instruction. When I start up the browser, or a new window, the blank tab shows about:blank as its location. But this is not listed in my preferences as the home page. I have a group of tabs, and those are all in the list. I did what you suggested earlier, and edited that box, and used the current page as my home page. (blank). Then I found my tabs again and loaded them, and again made the current group my home page. Between each such change I OKed out of preferences then out of SM, and restarted. The only thing I ever see is the about:blank tab I described. BTW I have also tried - in yet another location - a later version, 2.1 a1pre. I tried it with the same profile. Here, there is no problem with the home page loading or the back navigation button working. I am not convinced I'll switch though, as too many add-ons are not compatible. In The go to box (window) where about:blank type in your Homepage URL (example: in place of about:blank type http://www.kimbanet.com (using my ISP in the example) Hit return. wait for home page to load go to preferences Browser and in the Home page box delete what's there. then click on use current page. The go to box is BLANK. It's when I hover over the tab title that in the statusbar the about:blank appears. The home page contains the tabs I have defined as such. When I press the HOME button on my navigator toolbar SM loads them all, no problem. I think the situation you assume is different from my problem. The home page definition is not overwritten, as far as I can tell. SM just does not load the home page when I open a new window, either by doubleclicking a file or link on my computer when it's not yet running, when I click its icon to start SM, or, from the menu or the statusbar browser icon open a new window when SM is already running. And of course, the old install does not even start with more than one profile in the profiles directory. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: only one blank tab on new browser - problem is back, and worse
Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Not too long ago, I wrote about a problem when starting SM2.01 where I would not get my home pages loaded. It seemed to resolve itself when I did a disk clean. However, the problem is back, and it is worse than ever. Whatever startup option, either for the browser startup or just a new window, and whatever option - home page, current selected group of tabs, previous session... - all of them produce only a single blank tab. The same thing happens when I try to open a link from my desktop or from another program. Or when I click on a saved web page. What's worse is I then tried to create a new profile and see if it the problem persisted. The first time I started SM in this new profile it ran as expected. There was of course no home page, so I set one and tried to restart SM. NOTHING at all happened. It would not even bring up the profile manager. Reinstalling also did not help. What finally brought SM back up was removing the profiles.ini file from the profiles directory. The newly created profile has the same problem as the old one, so I had the new profiles.ini reference my existing profile and removed the two other ones. I have now tried to install an extra copy of SM in a new location. I'm getting the same results. Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance. Its a Bug. there are two ways it will happen. you can over come it but it always comes back. If you happen to not have Preference Appearance Browser and Mail news both checked. It is guaranteed that you will see this. And when you go to the section Browser make sure that the name for your Home page doesn't have an extra space. I do have both Browser and MailNews checked. and both of them do start up. And I do have the problem. Not only when starting, but any new browser window. In about:config I cannot find any extra spaces in my home page names. Is there another place I should check where an extra space could be hiding? If it's a bug that can be overcome I could live with it but now it's really bothersome. Margo Try go to your home page after seeing about:blank then try going to Preferences Browser in the new Box for desired page delete the URL for your home page remove all characters including spaces and any returns. next click use click use current page. next quit out preferences. Quit out of SeaMonkey. restart SeaMonkey. Should go to your home page. should last about next 10 or so start ups. and you'll have to do it again. No such luck. I never got to my homepage. It just starts with the blank tab. Put in your home page where the about:blank is then go to it. The go to preference Browser and set up your Home page. I don't follow this last instruction. When I start up the browser, or a new window, the blank tab shows about:blank as its location. But this is not listed in my preferences as the home page. I have a group of tabs, and those are all in the list. I did what you suggested earlier, and edited that box, and used the current page as my home page. (blank). Then I found my tabs again and loaded them, and again made the current group my home page. Between each such change I OKed out of preferences then out of SM, and restarted. The only thing I ever see is the about:blank tab I described. BTW I have also tried - in yet another location - a later version, 2.1 a1pre. I tried it with the same profile. Here, there is no problem with the home page loading or the back navigation button working. I am not convinced I'll switch though, as too many add-ons are not compatible. In The go to box (window) where about:blank type in your Homepage URL (example: in place of about:blank type http://www.kimbanet.com (using my ISP in the example) Hit return. wait for home page to load go to preferences Browser and in the Home page box delete what's there. then click on use current page. The go to box is BLANK. It's when I hover over the tab title that in the statusbar the about:blank appears. The home page contains the tabs I have defined as such. When I press the HOME button on my navigator toolbar SM loads them all, no problem. I think the situation you assume is different from my problem. The home page definition is not overwritten, as far as I can tell. SM just does not load the home page when I open a new window, either by doubleclicking a file or link on my computer when it's not yet running, when I click its icon to start SM, or, from the menu or the statusbar browser icon open a new window when SM is already running. And of course, the old install does not even start with more than one profile in the profiles directory. Type your home page URL in the blank go box then hit return. Then follow the rest of my direction. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org
Re: Unable to import seamonkey 1.x to Seamonkey 2.0
John wrote: very poor choice--a well designed program would not require that kind of work. Fully agreed, and as a volunteer project we like any help we can get to actually work on improving that design. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: only one blank tab on new browser - problem is back, and worse
Margo Guda wrote: BTW I have also tried - in yet another location - a later version, 2.1 a1pre. I tried it with the same profile. Here, there is no problem with the home page loading or the back navigation button working. I am not convinced I'll switch though, as too many add-ons are not compatible. 2.1a1pre are completely experimental, untested versions. If you use any of those, make sure you have backups of all your data as we can't guarantee this bleeding edge development version won't just destroy data without warnings (this rarely happens, but without testing, we can never know). Still, it's interesting to know that your problem doesn't appear there. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
Rufus wrote: They do have control over Themes True, and that's why we finally, after 10 years revamped the theme to fit way better with current desktop environments. Unfortunately, we left out a few pieces and there are some parts where we could have done even better, but we're missing a good graphical designer in our community. Do you know one willing to help and donate all his work on it to the project under very open licensing? ...so, what you've just told me is that the Form Manager doesn't have a snowball's chance of coming back. Right, it cannot come back in its old form, the old code it used is nothing anyone of us understands or can work with. All we can do it building something on top of the new form management code that improves it and maybe brings back some of the most-missed parts of functionality from the old interface. Still, all that needs someone to work on it, and right now, all I have seen is talk and not deeds. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: RoboForm support for SM 2
On 12/21/2009 5:32 PM, Mike C wrote: I emailed RoboForm and asked When will RoboForm work with Seamonkey 2 ? The answer I got back was: Unfortunately Seamonkey 2.x is not supported yet. We do apologize for the inconvenience, but there is no ETA available at this time. Maybe if they get lots of requests they'll be quicker! Here's where you can make requests: http://support.roboform.com/php/rtss/main/?lang= Mike C Well, this is still a step forward from the answer I got some time ago ... At that point, they just said, check our site, when it will be available, it will be posted. Not word for word, but that was the idea. But you are right. Until it is available, no chance I will consider SM2 prime time. I adopte FF3 only when I found Roboform, otherwise I would still be with FF2. -- John Doue ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
On 12/21/2009 5:14 PM, Robert Kaiser wrote: snip Our only chance of keeping SeaMonkey alive at all was to reduce the amount of unknown code we cannot maintain and replace it with code that is being maintained by someone else - which meant switching to the newer Mozilla platform, of which e.g. the new form management code is a part of. snip You do have a very valid point. My concern is, it works both ways. The other side of the coin is, since this is a volunteer venture, how can we hope that in x number of years, the new volunteers will not consider the present code unmaintainable? Given all this, I marvel at the fact, at a time when some people just make outrageous amounts of money by being (too) smart with other people's hard earned money, some volunteers dedicate time to Seamonkey. This puts my reluctance with SM2 in perspective and I wish I had the technical ability to contribute better and more efficiently than by occasional posts ... -- John Doue ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. On windows, you have to use the windows part Add/remove Programs to remove the old application letting a clean windows-registry. Then start the SM-install program. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Unable to import seamonkey 1.x to Seamonkey 2.0
Robert Kaiser wrote: John wrote: very poor choice--a well designed program would not require that kind of work. Fully agreed, and as a volunteer project we like any help we can get to actually work on improving that design. That's a good idea,... but what programming knowledge is required to help ? (if we don't have it , should we learn it ? (i have knowledge of cobol, fortran, rpg, Linc-4GL, VisualBasic4.0, DMSII, UPL SDL, Mainframes-Harware, MCPII ... would this help ?) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: only one blank tab on new browser - problem is back, and worse
Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Not too long ago, I wrote about a problem when starting SM2.01 where I would not get my home pages loaded. It seemed to resolve itself when I did a disk clean. However, the problem is back, and it is worse than ever. Whatever startup option, either for the browser startup or just a new window, and whatever option - home page, current selected group of tabs, previous session... - all of them produce only a single blank tab. The same thing happens when I try to open a link from my desktop or from another program. Or when I click on a saved web page. What's worse is I then tried to create a new profile and see if it the problem persisted. The first time I started SM in this new profile it ran as expected. There was of course no home page, so I set one and tried to restart SM. NOTHING at all happened. It would not even bring up the profile manager. Reinstalling also did not help. What finally brought SM back up was removing the profiles.ini file from the profiles directory. The newly created profile has the same problem as the old one, so I had the new profiles.ini reference my existing profile and removed the two other ones. I have now tried to install an extra copy of SM in a new location. I'm getting the same results. Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance. Its a Bug. there are two ways it will happen. you can over come it but it always comes back. If you happen to not have Preference Appearance Browser and Mail news both checked. It is guaranteed that you will see this. And when you go to the section Browser make sure that the name for your Home page doesn't have an extra space. I do have both Browser and MailNews checked. and both of them do start up. And I do have the problem. Not only when starting, but any new browser window. In about:config I cannot find any extra spaces in my home page names. Is there another place I should check where an extra space could be hiding? If it's a bug that can be overcome I could live with it but now it's really bothersome. Margo Try go to your home page after seeing about:blank then try going to Preferences Browser in the new Box for desired page delete the URL for your home page remove all characters including spaces and any returns. next click use click use current page. next quit out preferences. Quit out of SeaMonkey. restart SeaMonkey. Should go to your home page. should last about next 10 or so start ups. and you'll have to do it again. No such luck. I never got to my homepage. It just starts with the blank tab. Put in your home page where the about:blank is then go to it. The go to preference Browser and set up your Home page. I don't follow this last instruction. When I start up the browser, or a new window, the blank tab shows about:blank as its location. But this is not listed in my preferences as the home page. I have a group of tabs, and those are all in the list. I did what you suggested earlier, and edited that box, and used the current page as my home page. (blank). Then I found my tabs again and loaded them, and again made the current group my home page. Between each such change I OKed out of preferences then out of SM, and restarted. The only thing I ever see is the about:blank tab I described. BTW I have also tried - in yet another location - a later version, 2.1 a1pre. I tried it with the same profile. Here, there is no problem with the home page loading or the back navigation button working. I am not convinced I'll switch though, as too many add-ons are not compatible. In The go to box (window) where about:blank type in your Homepage URL (example: in place of about:blank type http://www.kimbanet.com (using my ISP in the example) Hit return. wait for home page to load go to preferences Browser and in the Home page box delete what's there. then click on use current page. The go to box is BLANK. It's when I hover over the tab title that in the statusbar the about:blank appears. The home page contains the tabs I have defined as such. When I press the HOME button on my navigator toolbar SM loads them all, no problem. I think the situation you assume is different from my problem. The home page definition is not overwritten, as far as I can tell. SM just does not load the home page when I open a new window, either by doubleclicking a file or link on my computer when it's not yet running, when I click its icon to start SM, or, from the menu or the statusbar browser icon open a new window when SM is already running. And of course, the old install does not even start with more than one profile in the profiles directory. Type your home page URL in the blank go box then hit return. Then follow the rest of my direction. I get the same result I did previously. One interesting thing is now all of a sudden the go box stays
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
Ant wrote: On 12/14/2009 8:56 PM PT, Ant typed: I don't use RedBox. Thus, I'm putting the burden on you (Ant). If this is not fixed within the next two weeks or so, send a letter to the CEO of the company. Don't be too technical, but point out (1) they are excluding a portion of their potential customer base and (2) they are risking a lawsuit under the ADA. I will definitely check in a week or so when I am on Christmas break to rent some DVDs. ;) It looks like this issue is resolved. :) It's working for me now too! Love it when sites respond to e-mail requests! :) bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Leonidas Jones wrote: Phil, in large measure, kept SM 1.1.x usable by his incredible work on xSidebar and porting Firefox and Thunderbird extensions to work in SeaMonkey. Without that, 1.1.x was really not a usable piece of work, at least without Multizilla, which basically converted it to another application entirely. I object to this. SeaMonkey 1.1.x is very usable without extensions. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Where does Seamonky put updates?
Thank, On my System Seamonkey is in E:\Program Files\Seamonkey2 Is it a folder or a set of files? I don't see an update folder I do see a number of files update.locale update.locale.moz-upgrade updater.exe updater.ini.. I'm getting a error that says I should upgrade to 2.0.1 but I already have. I suspect that the presence of one of these files is the reason. Martin Freitag wrote: Rob Steinmetz schrieb: I am getting a prompt to install the 2.0.1 update after it is already installed. I recall that this can be cause by an update not being removed after it has completed. Where does Seamonkey store the updates? Windows XP D:\Progs\SeaMonkey\updates (match drive-letter and programs folder to your setup) regards Martin -- Rob ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: only one blank tab on new browser - problem is back, and worse
Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Not too long ago, I wrote about a problem when starting SM2.01 where I would not get my home pages loaded. It seemed to resolve itself when I did a disk clean. However, the problem is back, and it is worse than ever. Whatever startup option, either for the browser startup or just a new window, and whatever option - home page, current selected group of tabs, previous session... - all of them produce only a single blank tab. The same thing happens when I try to open a link from my desktop or from another program. Or when I click on a saved web page. What's worse is I then tried to create a new profile and see if it the problem persisted. The first time I started SM in this new profile it ran as expected. There was of course no home page, so I set one and tried to restart SM. NOTHING at all happened. It would not even bring up the profile manager. Reinstalling also did not help. What finally brought SM back up was removing the profiles.ini file from the profiles directory. The newly created profile has the same problem as the old one, so I had the new profiles.ini reference my existing profile and removed the two other ones. I have now tried to install an extra copy of SM in a new location. I'm getting the same results. Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance. Its a Bug. there are two ways it will happen. you can over come it but it always comes back. If you happen to not have Preference Appearance Browser and Mail news both checked. It is guaranteed that you will see this. And when you go to the section Browser make sure that the name for your Home page doesn't have an extra space. I do have both Browser and MailNews checked. and both of them do start up. And I do have the problem. Not only when starting, but any new browser window. In about:config I cannot find any extra spaces in my home page names. Is there another place I should check where an extra space could be hiding? If it's a bug that can be overcome I could live with it but now it's really bothersome. Margo Try go to your home page after seeing about:blank then try going to Preferences Browser in the new Box for desired page delete the URL for your home page remove all characters including spaces and any returns. next click use click use current page. next quit out preferences. Quit out of SeaMonkey. restart SeaMonkey. Should go to your home page. should last about next 10 or so start ups. and you'll have to do it again. No such luck. I never got to my homepage. It just starts with the blank tab. Put in your home page where the about:blank is then go to it. The go to preference Browser and set up your Home page. I don't follow this last instruction. When I start up the browser, or a new window, the blank tab shows about:blank as its location. But this is not listed in my preferences as the home page. I have a group of tabs, and those are all in the list. I did what you suggested earlier, and edited that box, and used the current page as my home page. (blank). Then I found my tabs again and loaded them, and again made the current group my home page. Between each such change I OKed out of preferences then out of SM, and restarted. The only thing I ever see is the about:blank tab I described. BTW I have also tried - in yet another location - a later version, 2.1 a1pre. I tried it with the same profile. Here, there is no problem with the home page loading or the back navigation button working. I am not convinced I'll switch though, as too many add-ons are not compatible. In The go to box (window) where about:blank type in your Homepage URL (example: in place of about:blank type http://www.kimbanet.com (using my ISP in the example) Hit return. wait for home page to load go to preferences Browser and in the Home page box delete what's there. then click on use current page. The go to box is BLANK. It's when I hover over the tab title that in the statusbar the about:blank appears. The home page contains the tabs I have defined as such. When I press the HOME button on my navigator toolbar SM loads them all, no problem. I think the situation you assume is different from my problem. The home page definition is not overwritten, as far as I can tell. SM just does not load the home page when I open a new window, either by doubleclicking a file or link on my computer when it's not yet running, when I click its icon to start SM, or, from the menu or the statusbar browser icon open a new window when SM is already running. And of course, the old install does not even start with more than one profile in the profiles directory. Type your home page URL in the blank go box then hit return.
Re: When opening a(n) news/usenet server, how do I not make it download headers?
On 12/20/2009 10:25 PM PT, Daniel typed: Ant wrote: On 12/20/2009 8:00 AM PT, Phillip Jones typed: In v1.x, I open a news/usenet server and it only told me how many unread posts and total posts but not download posts. In v2.0.x, it does the same BUT also download the posts. How can I have v2 NOT download any posts until I highlight a specific newsgroup? Edit mail and news Groups Server Settings. uncheck in Sever setting uncheck the first two items. They're already unchecked. :( Opening up a news/usenet server still downloads. I also told it to prompt me to download or not if each newsgroup has over 100 new post. This gets annoying when it prompts for every groups with over 100 posts after opening a news server. I haven't even clicked on a newsgroup! opening the the server even in SM 1.1.18 would download headers. That exactly it just the headers. you actually read the message off the server. the bodies are left on the server. the only way message bodies are saved is if you have messages synchronization set to download when off line. Then you have set Mozilla as newsgroup to download when Off line. Then only and only then are bodies downloaded. Right, but why am I getting prompt to download more than 100 new posts (just headers) when I set download 100 only or prompt me what to do if more than 100? When I open up a news/usenet server, I just want to see how many unread and total posts there are. From here, it sometimes prompt me when there are more than 100 unread posts in the newsgroups. Ant, when you open a usenet server, SM goes off to the server to find out how many new messages there are on each group you have selected on the server. If you have SM set up to ask you what to do if there are over xxx unread message, that's what it does:- It asks if you want do down load them all It asks if you want to just down load xxx messages If you do select to download xxx messages, it asks if you want all the other un-downloaded messages marked as read or not. Correct. In v1.x, it never prompt me to download after opening the server and checking for new unread messages. It never prompts me to download over 100 posts that are available. It only prompts when there are over 100 posts when I click on a newsgroup. In v2, it will prompt on newsgroups that have over 100 new unread posts. I haven't even highlighted a newgroup with over 100 new unread posts. I can share screen shots if needed. -- What is it going to be like in eternity with God? Frankly, the capacity of our brains cannot handle the wonder and greatness of heaven. It would be like trying to describe the Internet to an ant. --Rick Warren's book, The Purpose Driven Life /\___/\ / /\ /\ \Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant ( ) or ant...@zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/20/2009 10:52 PM PT, David E. Ross typed: I don't use RedBox. Thus, I'm putting the burden on you (Ant). If this is not fixed within the next two weeks or so, send a letter to the CEO of the company. Don't be too technical, but point out (1) they are excluding a portion of their potential customer base and (2) they are risking a lawsuit under the ADA. I will definitely check in a week or so when I am on Christmas break to rent some DVDs. ;) It looks like this issue is resolved. :) I still see the problem. Is it possible you are spoofing Firefox? Nope, using real User Agent. No problems again when I checked. I am using Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091206 SeaMonkey/2.0.1. -- Antacid: What ants use to get high. --unknown /\___/\ / /\ /\ \Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant ( ) or ant...@zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/21/2009 8:51 AM PT, chicagofan typed: It looks like this issue is resolved. :) It's working for me now too! Love it when sites respond to e-mail requests! :) :) -- This isn't a war. It never was a war, any more than there's war between man and ants. --artilleryman from H.G. Wells' The War of the Worlds /\___/\ / /\ /\ \Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant ( ) or ant...@zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: only one blank tab on new browser - problem is back, and worse
JAS wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Margo Guda wrote: Not too long ago, I wrote about a problem when starting SM2.01 where I would not get my home pages loaded. It seemed to resolve itself when I did a disk clean. However, the problem is back, and it is worse than ever. Whatever startup option, either for the browser startup or just a new window, and whatever option - home page, current selected group of tabs, previous session... - all of them produce only a single blank tab. The same thing happens when I try to open a link from my desktop or from another program. Or when I click on a saved web page. What's worse is I then tried to create a new profile and see if it the problem persisted. The first time I started SM in this new profile it ran as expected. There was of course no home page, so I set one and tried to restart SM. NOTHING at all happened. It would not even bring up the profile manager. Reinstalling also did not help. What finally brought SM back up was removing the profiles.ini file from the profiles directory. The newly created profile has the same problem as the old one, so I had the new profiles.ini reference my existing profile and removed the two other ones. I have now tried to install an extra copy of SM in a new location. I'm getting the same results. Can anyone help me? Thanks in advance. Its a Bug. there are two ways it will happen. you can over come it but it always comes back. If you happen to not have Preference Appearance Browser and Mail news both checked. It is guaranteed that you will see this. And when you go to the section Browser make sure that the name for your Home page doesn't have an extra space. I do have both Browser and MailNews checked. and both of them do start up. And I do have the problem. Not only when starting, but any new browser window. In about:config I cannot find any extra spaces in my home page names. Is there another place I should check where an extra space could be hiding? If it's a bug that can be overcome I could live with it but now it's really bothersome. Margo Try go to your home page after seeing about:blank then try going to Preferences Browser in the new Box for desired page delete the URL for your home page remove all characters including spaces and any returns. next click use click use current page. next quit out preferences. Quit out of SeaMonkey. restart SeaMonkey. Should go to your home page. should last about next 10 or so start ups. and you'll have to do it again. No such luck. I never got to my homepage. It just starts with the blank tab. Put in your home page where the about:blank is then go to it. The go to preference Browser and set up your Home page. I don't follow this last instruction. When I start up the browser, or a new window, the blank tab shows about:blank as its location. But this is not listed in my preferences as the home page. I have a group of tabs, and those are all in the list. I did what you suggested earlier, and edited that box, and used the current page as my home page. (blank). Then I found my tabs again and loaded them, and again made the current group my home page. Between each such change I OKed out of preferences then out of SM, and restarted. The only thing I ever see is the about:blank tab I described. BTW I have also tried - in yet another location - a later version, 2.1 a1pre. I tried it with the same profile. Here, there is no problem with the home page loading or the back navigation button working. I am not convinced I'll switch though, as too many add-ons are not compatible. In The go to box (window) where about:blank type in your Homepage URL (example: in place of about:blank type http://www.kimbanet.com (using my ISP in the example) Hit return. wait for home page to load go to preferences Browser and in the Home page box delete what's there. then click on use current page. The go to box is BLANK. It's when I hover over the tab title that in the statusbar the about:blank appears. The home page contains the tabs I have defined as such. When I press the HOME button on my navigator toolbar SM loads them all, no problem. I think the situation you assume is different from my problem. The home page definition is not overwritten, as far as I can tell. SM just does not load the home page when I open a new window, either by doubleclicking a file or link on my computer when it's not yet running, when I click its icon to start SM, or, from the menu or the statusbar browser icon open a new window when SM is already running. And of course, the old install does not even start with more than one profile in the profiles directory. Type your home page URL in the blank go box then hit return. Then follow the rest of my direction. I get the same result I did previously. One interesting thing is
Re: seamonkey 2.0.1 mail crashing
rich904 wrote: I noticed yesterday and today while in compose a mail message that I will sometimes freeze up. I happens while I am typing the recipient address. I cannot exit the application. Have to go to Task Manager to kill Seamonkey and restart application. Happened on my machine at home last night once or twice. Happend repeatedly this am at work. I restarted machine from cold start. Happened again three times in a row when composing a message just a few minutes ago (late afternoon). Anyone seen this? I am suspicious of something in this auto update that just applied. Thanks for any suggestions. I had the same problem. I never even thought to consider non-SM address books (I have one, which is used just for XP FAX addressing, so I need it). The problem seemed to go away after I went into each of my SM address books (I have five) and in each one made a modification (actually deleting an entry is what I did in each). I was just assuming some inconsistency that might be fixed by activity. I did not have this problem with SM 2.0.0 -- only after 2.0.1 was installed. Especially if non-SM address books are to be consulted, I suggest that the user be given a choice of which address book(s) to use, not just all or nothing. Bob ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Where does Seamonky put updates?
Rob Steinmetz schrieb: Thank, On my System Seamonkey is in E:\Program Files\Seamonkey2 Is it a folder or a set of files? I don't see an update folder I do see a number of files update.locale update.locale.moz-upgrade updater.exe updater.ini.. These files ar okay to be there. updater.exe uses the download to perform the update. updates is a folder/directory. I'm getting a error that says I should upgrade to 2.0.1 but I already have. Update-notifications are usually not an error-message. o_0 I would try to download the full installer and just install it into the same directory where SM2 already is (while SM is closed of course) regards Martin -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - http://www.asciiribbon.org/index-de.html ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: inhibit asking for plugins
Gerd Schweizer schrieb: Since SM2 everytimes when loading SM waits for an answer whether i want to download plugins for DOM and Chatzilla. Although i didn't install them. How can i inhibit this question? Edit = Preferences = Advanced = Software Installation Updates = Installed Addons Anyway I don't think that waiting is normal for SM2, at least not if you mean it's in an unusable state during that time. regards Martin -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - http://www.asciiribbon.org/index-de.html ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Just been looking over the user options between the two, and I have to say that as far as the user is concerned, 1.1.18 had/has far more user flexibility for configuration, far more informative dialog boxes, buttons I could actually use, and with few exceptions behaved as I wanted it to... Which configuration options and buttons are missing for you now? Have you filed enhancements bugs for them? Martin Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what, smaller non-user friendly buttons, no Forms Manager...to name a few. I've already been informed that things like the Forms Manager are dead and gone for good. And yes - I've filed a bug about the small buttons, but the individual who put them there doesn't seem inclined to correct his mistake. As for the info in the dialog boxes - I plan to submit bugs, but I'm still contemplating just how to write them and for which dialog boxes. Or if it's even worth the effort given the state of the roadblocking going on over the small button issue. I'm already looking for and trying alternatives to SM - I looked at Firefox on the Mac last night...totally unsuitable, given how much I like what I get with SM 1.1.18. If Firefox/Thunderbird are harbingers of what's to become of SM due to the SM team not being able to maintain their own code content for functionality, then I'll just stick with SM 1.1.18 and call it good - like some enterprise users I know that still depend on Netscape. I've tried to get those users to upgrade from NS to SM in the past, I'm not really sure I have a reason to do that any longer. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Philip Chee wrote: On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 17:25:37 -0500, Leonidas Jones wrote: Philip Chee wrote: /snip/ Not an option, he's on a Mac. Parellels, VMWare Fusion, probably Virtual Box. Phil VirtualBox is great, though I've never tried on a G4, which is where Phillip is. Still not an answer for a full time browser regardless. Safari would be the best, though I know he doesn't want to go there. Lee I have Safari I and I can do less with it than SM and its slower. I agree. I think Phil is getting a bit frustrated. I don't blame him. He and the others have worked very hard on trying to keep this thing alive, and you, among others, really don't seem to understand or appreciate that. Phil, in large measure, kept SM 1.1.x usable by his incredible work on xSidebar and porting Firefox and Thunderbird extensions to work in SeaMonkey. Without that, 1.1.x was really not a usable piece of work, at least without Multizilla, which basically converted it to another application entirely. The unfortunately few devs on this project are users who didn't want the concept to die. This isn't Firefox or Thunderbird, where there are paid workers. The developers here do care, or there wouldn't be any project. I don't mean to say let them have a free pass. But, for heavens sake, lets treat them with the respect they deserve. Lee And I guess that's what I don't get...volunteers are generally more dedicated and principled than paid hacks. Or at least the ones I've encountered have been...so I'm not into coddling them. So I really don't get why they've knuckled under and merely imported TB and FF code instead of maintaining their own, based on that code...this is all open source, right? So where did the best of the good stuff go, just because the paid hacks got paid to drop it? Open = independent, I thought? Branch out or die...let SM become it's own project, or we might as well all just use FF and TB. Otherwise we won't be getting anything more than FF and TB linked together in one app. That's not much reason to choose. I've already explained with I won't use FF/TB combination. They don't play nice together. I tried FF on my MacBook last night...all I had to do was to look over the Prefs selections to determine that it's feature set wasn't suitable for what I'd like to be using. I used App Delete to get rid of it...after about 10 minutes with it. I do have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised by Thunderbird 3.0 though. It's Mac interface actually looks like a Mac interface. And I've only got two kicks against it so far - when it did the import from my SM profile, it imported ALL of my Password Manager content instead of just the Mail/News portions; and that the Attachment icon in the Preview tray is too small - if it scaled with the tray size that would be nice. I'll still only use it as an alternative Usenet reader, though. Mail.app is my primary. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/21/2009 9:48 AM, Ant wrote: On 12/20/2009 10:52 PM PT, David E. Ross typed: I don't use RedBox. Thus, I'm putting the burden on you (Ant). If this is not fixed within the next two weeks or so, send a letter to the CEO of the company. Don't be too technical, but point out (1) they are excluding a portion of their potential customer base and (2) they are risking a lawsuit under the ADA. I will definitely check in a week or so when I am on Christmas break to rent some DVDs. ;) It looks like this issue is resolved. :) I still see the problem. Is it possible you are spoofing Firefox? Nope, using real User Agent. No problems again when I checked. I am using Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091206 SeaMonkey/2.0.1. Ah. Now it's working. -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other Mozilla-related applications. You can access Mozdev much more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/21/2009 8:51 AM, chicagofan wrote: Ant wrote: On 12/14/2009 8:56 PM PT, Ant typed: I don't use RedBox. Thus, I'm putting the burden on you (Ant). If this is not fixed within the next two weeks or so, send a letter to the CEO of the company. Don't be too technical, but point out (1) they are excluding a portion of their potential customer base and (2) they are risking a lawsuit under the ADA. I will definitely check in a week or so when I am on Christmas break to rent some DVDs. ;) It looks like this issue is resolved. :) It's working for me now too! Love it when sites respond to e-mail requests! :) bj Yes. I wish the Vanguard Group (mutual funds) would be so accommodating. They insist that Gecko is NOT Gecko and that they support Firefox but not SeaMonkey. Worse, they even lock out SeaMonkey when I spoof Firefox with SeaMonkey still in the UA string. -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other Mozilla-related applications. You can access Mozdev much more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus wrote: So I really don't get why they've knuckled under and merely imported TB and FF code instead of maintaining their own, based on that code...this is all open source, right? Right, it is. And even maintaining al bunch of code you don't really know and which is sometimes written in strange ways is a quite hard job, have you ever tried that? Yes, that I understand...try porting functionality written in raw machine code to C++ for an entire integrated system and then maintaining like configurations on a dual path for each - where the requirement is that the two interfaces remain EXACT duplicates of each other for common functions. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying that there is a required discipline, order, and approach to doing the job in order to get it done. But SM has been going on for some years...decades? That should have been enough time to shape it up. If people have been focused. The SeaMonkey project mostly consists of people who have never worked on many parts of the code that the old suite had, most of us worked only in user interface (frontend) parts and never in the platform code (backend) those interfaces build on, so we are simply unable to maintain it. Again, understood. But yet another reason for shaping up the code along the way so that the next volunteer can figure it out. That should be a common overall goal/responsibility. And I assume you can feedback input to the backend coders? Our only chance of keeping SeaMonkey alive at all was to reduce the amount of unknown code we cannot maintain and replace it with code that is being maintained by someone else - which meant switching to the newer Mozilla platform, of which e.g. the new form management code is a part of. If you're talking about the Forms Manager, I noted it's not in Firefox either, so I can only assume it's gone for good - unless the SM team is coding it anew. Which I doubt, given what you've said. Now, that we have switched to that base and can let the old stuff die, we can look into ways to improve the newly acquired things and those parts of code that we have in the application now and should be able to maintain. Robert Kaiser I'd be even more pleased if people were looking into ways to port familiar and popular feature sets into the new code structure...which it doesn't sound like is going to happen - not when I hear things about old stuff dying. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: RoboForm support for SM 2
John Doue wrote: On 12/21/2009 5:32 PM, Mike C wrote: I emailed RoboForm and asked When will RoboForm work with Seamonkey 2 ? The answer I got back was: Unfortunately Seamonkey 2.x is not supported yet. We do apologize for the inconvenience, but there is no ETA available at this time. Maybe if they get lots of requests they'll be quicker! Here's where you can make requests: http://support.roboform.com/php/rtss/main/?lang= Mike C Well, this is still a step forward from the answer I got some time ago ... At that point, they just said, check our site, when it will be available, it will be posted. Not word for word, but that was the idea. But you are right. Until it is available, no chance I will consider SM2 prime time. I adopte FF3 only when I found Roboform, otherwise I would still be with FF2. The best solution is for the SM developers to add Form Manager back to 2.01. Until they do I'm sticking with 1.1.18. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
In news:2-wdnxg9kemgarpwnz2dnuvz_gwdn...@mozilla.org, Phillip Jones pjon...@kimbanet.com wrote: »Q« wrote: I find it amazing that some people conclude that the devs either don't care about users or actively work against users' wishes, when those same people continue to use the browser suite (either 1.1.x or 2.0.x) that those same devs have spent years to produce. Is it quite possible because there absolutely nothing out on the market any better than SeaMonkey. Absolutely nothing. That's the most amazing thing of all to me, that you can believe that a group of developers willfully acting against the users have produced absolutely the best product available. With enemies like them, who needs friends? ;) The devs have asked for and gotten a lot of constructive feedback from users in this group, but multiple posts complaining about the same feature ad nauseam and filled with all manner of malicious, unfounded allegations about devs are only sapping energy that could be used to improve SeaMonkey. There was no accusations that developers were sapping energy. I meant you're sapping *their* energy. They've spent a lot of time rebutting your accusations that would have been better spent working on the browser (or out having fun, even, recharging for browser work). SM2 is a greatest Browser/Mail/news Product bar none. There is nothing on Earth and possibly Mars any better. Is it perfect. No. Are we disappointed in left out items. You Betcha! One I wish there were a passwords manager post would be sufficient. But you never stop with that. I'm not even sure you realize how many posts you've made about it, many of which accuse developers of acting maliciously. IMO, what users who want a forms manager should now do is look for an extension developer who might provide one; there are some for Firefox that people could check out and encourage the authors to make SM-compatible. At least one complainer has already said he's completely unwilling to do that, but others could do it. If your referring to whom I think you are. He said that as a lowly user such as he, he would be ignored, an individual user has no standing with developers. And, he didn't have the funds to pay him. If he had money, and influence he would be on the phone with him in a heart beat. An individual user has no influence with a developer. It's simply untrue that an individual user cannot influence a developer. I expect you yourself can't influence developers much, but IMO that's because your approach to influencing them just involves harassing them. I've influenced several of them myself, in various projects, including extension developers, and gotten some features I wanted out of it. But that wouldn't have happened if I'd opened by accusing them of hurting their users intentionally. -- »Q« /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / against html e-mailX http://asciiribbon.org/ / \ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus wrote: 4) adopt a schedule for release and release fewer changes per cycle - this could be done on a shorter cycle, allowing for more releases. 5) adopt a longer release cycle for major changes to allow user polling and beta test of (all) pending implementations prior to formal release - this would fit a longer cycle with fewer releases. Longer or shorter? Is three years for really major changes such as what we did with 1.x - 2.0 with 1.5 years of releasing Alphas and Betas too little in the moving-fast Internet world? A two year cycle is about standard for what I do, and what I manage is WAY more complex than something like SM...the short cycle model works just fine for security and under the hood fixes, the long cycle model works better for major interface changes. 7) discarding old features just because they are old doesn't even enter into the equation OK, now you revealed that you don't have a clue about development. The reason is never just because it's old, it's usually because there's nobody any more who can maintain this f***ing piece of sh*t for its security vulnerabilities because nobody who is around does understand the code or even tries to. And then, remember, around here you can't hire anyone to do that, you can just beg people to please look at it. And if that doesn't help, it's always better to ship the code you trust only and omit the parts you cannot trust or maintain any more. It's not about trusting code - greatest thing about code is that you can re-write it. So if you don't trust something, redraft it into something you do trust and maintain the functionality for the end user. That's such a common requirement for system software development in my industry that we don't even bat an eye at it. Like I mentioned previously - if we applied your above approach with airplanes, we'd risk killing people. We don't like killing people. That a REALLY short treatise on how I've done it...and a fair start for anyone else. Feel free to manage your own project if you think it's really that easy. I have explained in the post before why it isn't for us. ...I NEVER said it was easy. I said it's possible. Oh, and just imagine your whole world falls apart and you need to completely rebuild it with a team of maximum 10-20 people who only can invest their free time. How would you do that? Do your utopical guideline still work there? Robert Kaiser Well...yeah...we do that weekly. In fact, we've just been fighting a HUGE issue with a system which may put a possible year slip in our production. There is no utopia. But there IS getting the job done. And yeah - that's about how many people we have on our teams as well for an integration effort on a complex system - sometimes it's just one guy for a piece of software for a particular box. Discipline, configuration control, small increments - that's how we do it. For the last 25 years that I've been doing it. So I'm not much discouraged by the SM team's sitch. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus wrote: As I said, I'm an evaluator/manager - not a coder. I can give advise, and I can manage...and coders can ignore me - like they do at work. Hehe, now you admit you understand my part in all that somewhat after all. ;-) I'm mostly a manager in what I'm doing as well, and a large part of our product has always come in from (to compare it to business) a third party of sorts (or different departments/divisions, if you will) so I also need to mostly swallow what they bring in when managing our team. And then this team has nobody at all who can be forced in any way to do anything, as there's nobody paid to work here. Fun times. ...and SM's user base is WAY larger than mine. I'd likely be a good beta tester. That's about the best I can offer. That's already a good start, and we welcome everybody who tests or Alpha and Beta releases and files bugs. There's as much guarantee that any developer listens to you than there is that he listens to me, as this is a volunteer open source project, and is in the end steered by those who do the actual work. Robert Kaiser -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
In news:j7qdntbkupghy7pwnz2dnuvz_uwdn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: »Q« wrote: The form manager feature of SeaMonkey 1.x isn't in SM 2.0.x because the codebase which supports it has been abandoned by the people working on Mozilla core code. Polling users wouldn't make those people re-implement it for the newer codebase, and the SeaMonkey team hasn't (yet) been able to do that themselves. ...so, what you've just told me is that the Form Manager doesn't have a snowball's chance of coming back. That's not at all what I've just told you or even based on what I've just told you. You must have some other reason for thinking there will never again be a form manager in SeaMonkey. -- »Q« /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / against html e-mailX http://asciiribbon.org/ / \ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus wrote: As I said, I'm an evaluator/manager - not a coder. I can give advise, and I can manage...and coders can ignore me - like they do at work. Hehe, now you admit you understand my part in all that somewhat after all. ;-) I'm mostly a manager in what I'm doing as well, and a large part of our product has always come in from (to compare it to business) a third party of sorts (or different departments/divisions, if you will) so I also need to mostly swallow what they bring in when managing our team. And then this team has nobody at all who can be forced in any way to do anything, as there's nobody paid to work here. Fun times. ...meets spec, doesn't work...well, that's not in the contract...yeah, I've been there/done that. Constantly. ...and SM's user base is WAY larger than mine. I'd likely be a good beta tester. That's about the best I can offer. That's already a good start, and we welcome everybody who tests or Alpha and Beta releases and files bugs. There's as much guarantee that any developer listens to you than there is that he listens to me, as this is a volunteer open source project, and is in the end steered by those who do the actual work. Robert Kaiser That's where I guess I'm missing the boat - we at least have process control over how and what gets added/removed and when. Being new the this fray, I'm not up on how you really manage configuration and content for SM. And I get really skeptical when I see well, it looks better in the bug threads - we fire people for doing stuff like that. But I guess when you go open, you're open to open revolt... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus wrote: They do have control over Themes True, and that's why we finally, after 10 years revamped the theme to fit way better with current desktop environments. Unfortunately, we left out a few pieces and there are some parts where we could have done even better, but we're missing a good graphical designer in our community. Do you know one willing to help and donate all his work on it to the project under very open licensing? I'm an engineer, not a graphic designer. All of what I work with is implemented to convey information to the user (pilots and crew) as efficiently and completely as possible, with little consideration for form - it has to be that way so that fatal mistakes aren't made. There's gucci-graphics, and then there's what works and what's useful. There are likely some readily available standards for user interfaces - like button size, scaling for screen presentations, etc. - that in the absence of having a design professional on the team the team could still refer to in making design decisions. That would be a start. ...so, what you've just told me is that the Form Manager doesn't have a snowball's chance of coming back. Right, it cannot come back in its old form, the old code it used is nothing anyone of us understands or can work with. All we can do it building something on top of the new form management code that improves it and maybe brings back some of the most-missed parts of functionality from the old interface. Still, all that needs someone to work on it, and right now, all I have seen is talk and not deeds. Robert Kaiser ...staffing is always an issue. Sometimes it's THE issue... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Benoit Renard wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Phil, in large measure, kept SM 1.1.x usable by his incredible work on xSidebar and porting Firefox and Thunderbird extensions to work in SeaMonkey. Without that, 1.1.x was really not a usable piece of work, at least without Multizilla, which basically converted it to another application entirely. I object to this. SeaMonkey 1.1.x is very usable without extensions. Second. It does about everything I need right out of the box...I don't even need to go looking for a suitable Theme. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/21/2009 11:37 AM PT, David E. Ross typed: I don't use RedBox. Thus, I'm putting the burden on you (Ant). If this is not fixed within the next two weeks or so, send a letter to the CEO of the company. Don't be too technical, but point out (1) they are excluding a portion of their potential customer base and (2) they are risking a lawsuit under the ADA. I will definitely check in a week or so when I am on Christmas break to rent some DVDs. ;) It looks like this issue is resolved. :) It's working for me now too! Love it when sites respond to e-mail requests! :) bj Yes. I wish the Vanguard Group (mutual funds) would be so accommodating. They insist that Gecko is NOT Gecko and that they support Firefox but not SeaMonkey. Worse, they even lock out SeaMonkey when I spoof Firefox with SeaMonkey still in the UA string. [sighs] Did other people reply? Did you report Web site via SM? If not, then get more people to tell them. -- I do not believe that the Great Society is the ordered, changeless and sterile battalion of the ants. It is the excitement of becoming--always becoming, trying, probing, falling, resting and trying again--but always trying and always gaining. In each generation--with toil and tears--we have had to earn our heritage again. --Lyndon B. Johnson /\___/\ / /\ /\ \Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant ( ) or ant...@zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/21/2009 11:35 AM PT, David E. Ross typed: I don't use RedBox. Thus, I'm putting the burden on you (Ant). If this is not fixed within the next two weeks or so, send a letter to the CEO of the company. Don't be too technical, but point out (1) they are excluding a portion of their potential customer base and (2) they are risking a lawsuit under the ADA. I will definitely check in a week or so when I am on Christmas break to rent some DVDs. ;) It looks like this issue is resolved. :) I still see the problem. Is it possible you are spoofing Firefox? Nope, using real User Agent. No problems again when I checked. I am using Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091206 SeaMonkey/2.0.1. Ah. Now it's working. Did you change something since last time? -- I do not believe that the Great Society is the ordered, changeless and sterile battalion of the ants. It is the excitement of becoming--always becoming, trying, probing, falling, resting and trying again--but always trying and always gaining. In each generation--with toil and tears--we have had to earn our heritage again. --Lyndon B. Johnson /\___/\ / /\ /\ \Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant ( ) or ant...@zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Can't send email in Seamonkey 2.0
I just upgraded to Seamonkey 2.0. I like it for its mail feature. But now, when I try to send an email I get this message: Sending of message failed. An error occurred sending mail: Unable to authenticate to SMTP server smtp.earthlink.net. It does not support authentication (SMTP-AUTH) but you have chosen to use authentication. Uncheck 'Use name and password' for that server or contact your service provider. I'm using Earthlink.net and have tried to figure out how to correct this but to no avail. They're not interested in helping problems with Seamonkey. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Orbit 3+1 theme now available for SeaMonkey 2
Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to inform you that the Orbit 3+1 theme (including support for customizable toolbars and the two subskins) is now available for SeaMonkey 2. Get it from http://miksworld.de/orbit.html or AMO! Greetings from snowy Frankfurt/Germany, Jens -- Jens Hatlak http://jens.hatlak.de/ SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker http://smtt.blogspot.com/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. Well I guess I stand corrected :-[ Maybe I'll uninstall first from now on. From what you guys said the unnecessary extra work is actually necessary extra work :-( ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: RoboForm support for SM 2
John Doue wrote: On 12/21/2009 5:32 PM, Mike C wrote: I emailed RoboForm and asked When will RoboForm work with Seamonkey 2 ? The answer I got back was: Unfortunately Seamonkey 2.x is not supported yet. We do apologize for the inconvenience, but there is no ETA available at this time. Maybe if they get lots of requests they'll be quicker! Here's where you can make requests: http://support.roboform.com/php/rtss/main/?lang= Mike C Well, this is still a step forward from the answer I got some time ago ... At that point, they just said, check our site, when it will be available, it will be posted. Not word for word, but that was the idea. But you are right. Until it is available, no chance I will consider SM2 prime time. I adopte FF3 only when I found Roboform, otherwise I would still be with FF2. I have around 140 web sites with passwords in RoboForm. There's no way I could get along without it! (Actually I could delete a lot of them not used anymore) (Too much work to do it at the present time though) ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Interviewed by CNN on 21/12/2009 03:32, Rufus told the world: And I guess that's what I don't get...volunteers are generally more dedicated and principled than paid hacks. Or at least the ones I've encountered have been...so I'm not into coddling them. They are, but since they aren't getting paid, they can't give as many hours to the project -- they have day jobs. A paid programmer can give 8 hours/day, at least 200 days a year. A volunteer can give MAYBE 2 hours/day. If he's really dedicated and enthusiastic. Some paid programmer started out as volunteers, and are as enthusiastic as any volunteer, by the way. All those programmer man-month add up. So I really don't get why they've knuckled under and merely imported TB and FF code instead of maintaining their own, based on that code...this is all open source, right? So where did the best of the good stuff go, just because the paid hacks got paid to drop it? Open = independent, I thought? Seamonkey simply does not have nearly as much manpower available as Firefox -- and, as KaiRo pointed out, the Seamonkey volunteers lack expertise in some areas that would be essential to splitting out entirely. The source code to what you call the good stuff is still available -- but it's not compatible with the new core in its present form. If someone with the necessary expertise, willingness and available time will step up and adapt it to the new core, it can be revived. So far nobody volunteered. Branch out or die...let SM become it's own project, or we might as well all just use FF and TB. Otherwise we won't be getting anything more than FF and TB linked together in one app. That's not much reason to choose. Again, it's a matter of manpower. SM *was* going somewhat independently from Firefox for the last few years, on the 1.1 branch -- and what was the result? The rendering engine was looking more and more dated every day, ditto for the Javascript engine and other core stuff. It lacked several modern security enhancements, it lacked a decent extensions manager, it lacked a decent upgrade mechanism. Moving to the Firefox toolkit gave us all of those in a fell swoop. And let's not forget the extensions ecosystem. Which, frankly, was dying on Seamonkey. Lots of extensions weren't available for SM, or had reduced functionality -- because it was a lot more work for extensions developers to support SM. That trend is reverting now: more and more extensions are being brought to SM. My take on the move? It's like the old saying, to give one step backwards to leap two forwards. Yes, some stuff didn't get moved/recreated immediately -- the forms manager seems to be the most visible complaint. However, the move will release developers from doing stuff that was just duplicating efforts from the FF/TB guys, so they can now concentrate on doing new stuff. You have a boat. It has a wooden hull, it's old and leaky. You have three guys to work on the boat. They spend all the time plugging leaks. Then someone offers you a brand-new, fiberglass hull. You move your engine, bunks, head, kitchen etc. to the new hull. Only, a couple bunks didn't fit the new hull (despite it being actually a little bigger), so you had to do without them for the time being. Sure, right now you have less bunks -- but your three guys have a lot of free time now, so they can not only build new bunks but even to figure out how to fit a freaking home theater in the boat. -- MCBastos This message has been protected with the 2ROT13 algorithm. Unauthorized use will be prosecuted under the DMCA. -=-=- ... BOFH excuse #308: CD-ROM server needs recalibration * TagZilla 0.0661 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org on Seamonkey 2.0 ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Note: Standard buttons on the Personal Toolbar such as Bookmarks, Search, Go, Print and Home cannot be rearranged, but they can be turned off and on. I think that's in error and it doesn't mean Personal Toolbar. I think it is referring to Navigation Toolbar since that's where the 'HELP' file takes me. Turning Buttons On and Off 1. Open the SeaMonkey Edit menu and choose Preferences. 2. Click Browser. 3. Under Select the buttons you want to see in the toolbars, choose the buttons that you want on your toolbar. 4. Click OK. In any case there is no option for 'Bookmarks' there. Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. -- Ed The fact that we have a common language, one language, is one of the most important things we have tying us together. -S.I. Hayakawa ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
BeeNeR wrote: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Note: Standard buttons on the Personal Toolbar such as Bookmarks, Search, Go, Print and Home cannot be rearranged, but they can be turned off and on. I think that's in error and it doesn't mean Personal Toolbar. I think it is referring to Navigation Toolbar since that's where the 'HELP' file takes me. Turning Buttons On and Off 1. Open the SeaMonkey Edit menu and choose Preferences. 2. Click Browser. 3. Under Select the buttons you want to see in the toolbars, choose the buttons that you want on your toolbar. 4. Click OK. In any case there is no option for 'Bookmarks' there. Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. Edit Preferences Navigator Uncheck bookmarks in the right pane ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
On or about 12/21/2009 4:49 PM, Mike C typed the following: BeeNeR wrote: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Note: Standard buttons on the Personal Toolbar such as Bookmarks, Search, Go, Print and Home cannot be rearranged, but they can be turned off and on. I think that's in error and it doesn't mean Personal Toolbar. I think it is referring to Navigation Toolbar since that's where the 'HELP' file takes me. Turning Buttons On and Off 1. Open the SeaMonkey Edit menu and choose Preferences. 2. Click Browser. 3. Under Select the buttons you want to see in the toolbars, choose the buttons that you want on your toolbar. 4. Click OK. In any case there is no option for 'Bookmarks' there. Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. Edit Preferences Navigator Uncheck bookmarks in the right pane In SM2.0.1 I don't have 'Navigator' I have 'Browser' and it only lists two buttons, 'Search' and 'Go' for the 'Navigation Toolbar'. Nothing for the 'Personal Toolbar'. -- Ed Impossible is a word only to be found in the dictionary of fools. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
BeeNeR wrote: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? Right click it, choose Customize... and drag it into the window/dialog/sheet that opens. The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Help has not been updated for that; I just filed Bug 536257. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=536257 Thanks for noticing! :-) Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. It's certainly redundant but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's really a matter of opinion: Some like it like that, others (like you) don't. SeaMonkey is all about choice so you're free to set it up the way you like it, and others may do so as well. HTH Jens -- Jens Hatlak http://jens.hatlak.de/ SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker http://smtt.blogspot.com/ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
BeeNeR: In SM2.0.1 I don't have 'Navigator' I have 'Browser' and it only lists two buttons, 'Search' and 'Go' for the 'Navigation Toolbar'. Nothing for the 'Personal Toolbar'. Right-click on the personal toolbar, e.g. on Bookmarks *g*, choose Customize, drag the Bookmark icon to the new window and click 'Done'. Hartmut ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
MCBastos wrote: Interviewed by CNN on 21/12/2009 03:32, Rufus told the world: And I guess that's what I don't get...volunteers are generally more dedicated and principled than paid hacks. Or at least the ones I've encountered have been...so I'm not into coddling them. They are, but since they aren't getting paid, they can't give as many hours to the project -- they have day jobs. A paid programmer can give 8 hours/day, at least 200 days a year. A volunteer can give MAYBE 2 hours/day. If he's really dedicated and enthusiastic. Some paid programmer started out as volunteers, and are as enthusiastic as any volunteer, by the way. All those programmer man-month add up. Yes...so they move slower. I don't have any issue with that.1 So I really don't get why they've knuckled under and merely imported TB and FF code instead of maintaining their own, based on that code...this is all open source, right? So where did the best of the good stuff go, just because the paid hacks got paid to drop it? Open = independent, I thought? Seamonkey simply does not have nearly as much manpower available as Firefox -- and, as KaiRo pointed out, the Seamonkey volunteers lack expertise in some areas that would be essential to splitting out entirely. ...again - slower change, but try not to allow change for the worse simply in the interest of change. The source code to what you call the good stuff is still available -- but it's not compatible with the new core in its present form. If someone with the necessary expertise, willingness and available time will step up and adapt it to the new core, it can be revived. So far nobody volunteered. Requires forethought, a roadmap, and planning. Not sure that it may not be too late at this point - it has to be a constant, continuing effort or things get too far behind to recover...or to recover gracefully. Branch out or die...let SM become it's own project, or we might as well all just use FF and TB. Otherwise we won't be getting anything more than FF and TB linked together in one app. That's not much reason to choose. Again, it's a matter of manpower. SM *was* going somewhat independently from Firefox for the last few years, on the 1.1 branch -- and what was the result? The rendering engine was looking more and more dated every day, ditto for the Javascript engine and other core stuff. It lacked several modern security enhancements, it lacked a decent extensions manager, it lacked a decent upgrade mechanism. Moving to the Firefox toolkit gave us all of those in a fell swoop. The under the hood stuff may have looked dated, but the 1.x.x user interface and functionality provided was the best on the planet, IMO. The move to the FF toolkit may have fixed stuff I can't see, but what I CAN see has taken a leap backwards. One more reason to code in a modular and transportable manner - toolkit or not. And let's not forget the extensions ecosystem. Which, frankly, was dying on Seamonkey. Lots of extensions weren't available for SM, or had reduced functionality -- because it was a lot more work for extensions developers to support SM. That trend is reverting now: more and more extensions are being brought to SM. Personally, I don't use extensions - SM has given me what I need and served my needs right out of the box. So from a personal standpoint I'd have let extensions die and tried to build the more popular stuff into the app. But that likely wouldn't please everyone either - not to mention that being a fan and proponent of modularity, after consideration I'd probably have changed my mind. My take on the move? It's like the old saying, to give one step backwards to leap two forwards. Yes, some stuff didn't get moved/recreated immediately -- the forms manager seems to be the most visible complaint. However, the move will release developers from doing stuff that was just duplicating efforts from the FF/TB guys, so they can now concentrate on doing new stuff. Speaking personally again, I never used the Forms Manager...probably because I couldn't tell if its information was encrypted when stored. But if I'd have been able to tell, yeah - I'd be using it. And that's really what most of my major beefs with the 2.x.x releases are about - most of my issues have to do with things which are really under the control of someone building the GUI - like better text information in dialog boxes, properly sized buttons, etc. Not really nuts and bolts stuff that I can't see...other than type and application encryption - and again, a simple dialog box or header could provide me that information. Yeah, I can see where someone that used the Forms Manager would be REALLY annoyed that it's now missing - me, not so much because I didn't use it. Now that I'm more aware of what a convenience it could be, I'm becoming more annoyed that it's missing myself. But once again - information that may have made me more likely to use it was never
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
David E. Ross wrote: On 12/21/2009 8:51 AM, chicagofan wrote: Ant wrote: It looks like this issue is resolved. :) It's working for me now too! Love it when sites respond to e-mail requests! :) bj Yes. I wish the Vanguard Group (mutual funds) would be so accommodating. They insist that Gecko is NOT Gecko and that they support Firefox but not SeaMonkey. Worse, they even lock out SeaMonkey when I spoof Firefox with SeaMonkey still in the UA string. That IS really annoying! Have you thought about Fidelity [unless this relationship is employer connected]? ;) bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Ray_Net wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. On windows, you have to use the windows part Add/remove Programs to remove the old application letting a clean windows-registry. Then start the SM-install program. Each OS has their own system of doing a clean install. One curiosity: On Snow Leopard from what I've been reading You are not asked whether to do a clean install. It can be done but you now have to go through some hoops to do so. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Mike C wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. Well I guess I stand corrected :-[ Maybe I'll uninstall first from now on. From what you guys said the unnecessary extra work is actually necessary extra work :-( Chance are you can get away with just installing over top., But the odds are higher for corruption to kick in. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
BeeNeR wrote: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Note: Standard buttons on the Personal Toolbar such as Bookmarks, Search, Go, Print and Home cannot be rearranged, but they can be turned off and on. I think that's in error and it doesn't mean Personal Toolbar. I think it is referring to Navigation Toolbar since that's where the 'HELP' file takes me. Turning Buttons On and Off 1. Open the SeaMonkey Edit menu and choose Preferences. 2. Click Browser. 3. Under Select the buttons you want to see in the toolbars, choose the buttons that you want on your toolbar. 4. Click OK. In any case there is no option for 'Bookmarks' there. Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. Right click in a blank space on the Toolbar, where the extra Bookmark icon is located . Choose Customize in the menu, when Customize box opens, drag the Bookmark icon to the box. bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Can't send email in Seamonkey 2.0
marstokyo wrote: I just upgraded to Seamonkey 2.0. I like it for its mail feature. But now, when I try to send an email I get this message: Sending of message failed. An error occurred sending mail: Unable to authenticate to SMTP server smtp.earthlink.net. It does not support authentication (SMTP-AUTH) but you have chosen to use authentication. Uncheck 'Use name and password' for that server or contact your service provider. I'm using Earthlink.net and have tried to figure out how to correct this but to no avail. They're not interested in helping problems with Seamonkey. Have you checked your SMTP settings under Mail/Newsgroups Account Settings? At the bottom of your account listing is the Outgoing Server (SMTP) Setting. Click that, then Edit your default setting... removing the security settings as mentioned. Uncheck User name and password and secure authentication, if they are not required by your ISP. bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. On windows, you have to use the windows part Add/remove Programs to remove the old application letting a clean windows-registry. Then start the SM-install program. Each OS has their own system of doing a clean install. One curiosity: On Snow Leopard from what I've been reading You are not asked whether to do a clean install. It can be done but you now have to go through some hoops to do so. ...not just Sno-Lep. For any install of SM on a Mac you just drag the app from the disk image to where you want it. So I'm left thinking that a truly clean install on a Mac would require wiping out everything associated with SM by using a third party app like App Delete. Which would of course mean you'd also be deleting all of your previous Profile and Pref information. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
BeeNeR wrote: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Note: Standard buttons on the Personal Toolbar such as Bookmarks, Search, Go, Print and Home cannot be rearranged, but they can be turned off and on. I think that's in error and it doesn't mean Personal Toolbar. I think it is referring to Navigation Toolbar since that's where the 'HELP' file takes me. Turning Buttons On and Off 1. Open the SeaMonkey Edit menu and choose Preferences. 2. Click Browser. 3. Under Select the buttons you want to see in the toolbars, choose the buttons that you want on your toolbar. 4. Click OK. In any case there is no option for 'Bookmarks' there. Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. In SM1.1.18 and lower You actually can turn this on and off. IN SM2.x You use the Customize menu and drag the icons to places desired and add to by dragging out of customize menu. Ir removing by dragging to customize menu. If you drag off the menu but not into customize window you lose that item. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Need a site check for SM 2.01
David E. Ross wrote: On 12/20/2009 9:12 AM, chicagofan wrote: I'm unable to see the building photos at this site. Is it my settings, or a site conflict? TIA for any checks... and advice. bj http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/19/best-buildings-of-the-dec_n_397686.html?slidenumber=Ipx32LRnarg%3Dslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshow#slide_image I see all the images. Flash is not likely involved since I have FlashBlock installed and active. UA sniffing is definitely not involved since I am not spoofing. Windows XP Home Edition 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600 Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091206 SeaMonkey/2.0.1 That's what I have, but it's a no go here. I suspect I have blocked some MS link on my system. Thanks for your response. bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Need a site check for SM 2.01
JAS wrote: chicagofan wrote: chicagofan wrote: Dick Hoffman wrote: chicagofan wrote: I'm unable to see the building photos at this site. Is it my settings, or a site conflict? TIA for any checks... and advice. bj http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/19/best-buildings-of-the-dec_n_397686.html?slidenumber=Ipx32LRnarg%3Dslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshowslideshow#slide_image The buildings show up fine here: SM 2.0.1 with no extensions under XP-SP3. Provide some more details of what you are seeing and maybe someone can help you. Dick I am using the Walnut theme, but no extensions I'm aware of. The site comes up and everything looks fine and is available, except the images of the buildings. All of the blocks that should show building pictures are blank. The Flash player updated yesterday, and this is what I have: File name: NPSWF32.dll Shockwave Flash 10.0 r42 Does that help? :) bj Oops... forgot to say, I'm using WinXP2. bj I also am using the Walnut theme,Win XP Pro SM2 with all updates, running Adblock and Flashblock and I can see all photos of the buildings and theydo not seem to be flash images--I am using SM 2.0.1 but it is spoofed to: Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091206 Lightning/1.0b2pre NOT Firefox/3.5 SeaMonkey/2.0.1 JAS Thanks, Jas, that tells me it's not theme related. :) bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Need a site check for SM 2.01
Mike C wrote: chicagofan wrote: chicagofan wrote: I am using the Walnut theme, but no extensions I'm aware of. The site comes up and everything looks fine and is available, except the images of the buildings. All of the blocks that should show building pictures are blank. The Flash player updated yesterday, and this is what I have: File name: NPSWF32.dll Shockwave Flash 10.0 r42 Does that help? :) bj Oops... forgot to say, I'm using WinXP2. bj Maybe you should go for WinXP SP3 Doing it fixed a lot for me. Wouldn't I be inviting more trouble, if I installed SP3 at this late date? I don't trust MS, when I do everything required in order. ;) bj ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Can't send email in Seamonkey 2.0
marstokyo wrote: I just upgraded to Seamonkey 2.0. I like it for its mail feature. But now, when I try to send an email I get this message: Sending of message failed. An error occurred sending mail: Unable to authenticate to SMTP server smtp.earthlink.net. It does not support authentication (SMTP-AUTH) but you have chosen to use authentication. Uncheck 'Use name and password' for that server or contact your service provider. I'm using Earthlink.net and have tried to figure out how to correct this but to no avail. They're not interested in helping problems with Seamonkey. Try: Edit mail and Newsgroups Earthlink.net Server Settings make sure always use Authentication is un checked Also there is a new feature in SMTP Server Edit mail newsgroups SMTP click on edit for the SMTP Server for Earthlink and uncheck use secure authentication. Its been a pain since they have put this little item in in 2.0.x -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
David E. Ross wrote: /snip/ Yes. I wish the Vanguard Group (mutual funds) would be so accommodating. They insist that Gecko is NOT Gecko and that they support Firefox but not SeaMonkey. Worse, they even lock out SeaMonkey when I spoof Firefox with SeaMonkey still in the UA string. That's odd. I've never had any problem with Vanguard. To confirm, I just went to vanguard.com, clicked on Go to the Site under Personal Investors, logged in and accessed my account info. No spoofing, no extensions. Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090825 SeaMonkey/1.1.18 Lem Johnson ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. On windows, you have to use the windows part Add/remove Programs to remove the old application letting a clean windows-registry. Then start the SM-install program. Each OS has their own system of doing a clean install. One curiosity: On Snow Leopard from what I've been reading You are not asked whether to do a clean install. It can be done but you now have to go through some hoops to do so. ...not just Sno-Lep. For any install of SM on a Mac you just drag the app from the disk image to where you want it. So I'm left thinking that a truly clean install on a Mac would require wiping out everything associated with SM by using a third party app like App Delete. Which would of course mean you'd also be deleting all of your previous Profile and Pref information. I'm talking about install of Snow leopard system from the DVD. Most all applications either install from a dmg file , Pkg install or drag from dmg to appropriate folder. If you leave the old application in the applications folder (Directory) it will ask if you wish to replace and older version If you move old app to Trash you don't get this message. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. On windows, you have to use the windows part Add/remove Programs to remove the old application letting a clean windows-registry. Then start the SM-install program. Each OS has their own system of doing a clean install. One curiosity: On Snow Leopard from what I've been reading You are not asked whether to do a clean install. It can be done but you now have to go through some hoops to do so. ...not just Sno-Lep. For any install of SM on a Mac you just drag the app from the disk image to where you want it. So I'm left thinking that a truly clean install on a Mac would require wiping out everything associated with SM by using a third party app like App Delete. Which would of course mean you'd also be deleting all of your previous Profile and Pref information. I'm talking about install of Snow leopard system from the DVD. Most all applications either install from a dmg file , Pkg install or drag from dmg to appropriate folder. If you leave the old application in the applications folder (Directory) it will ask if you wish to replace and older version If you move old app to Trash you don't get this message. ...oh, I thought you were talking about a clean install of SM or other apps. As for Mac OS system upgrades, I've always just installed them over the existing system and never had any issues. I do the Repair Permissions dance both before and after system upgrade/install, but other than that nothing special. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Ken Rudolph a écrit : Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I think I have experienced the same ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar (SOLVED)
On or about 12/21/2009 5:16 PM, Jens Hatlak typed the following: BeeNeR wrote: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? Right click it, choose Customize... and drag it into the window/dialog/sheet that opens. The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Help has not been updated for that; I just filed Bug 536257. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=536257 Thanks for noticing! :-) Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. It's certainly redundant but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's really a matter of opinion: Some like it like that, others (like you) don't. SeaMonkey is all about choice so you're free to set it up the way you like it, and others may do so as well. HTH Jens Thanks Jens - I did try that (only once) and must be I didn't drag it as far as thought I did since it didn't work. My bad for not trying it again. Just went to 'HELP' to see if I was doing something wrong and found out the 'HELP' file didn't really help. All's under control now. And thanks for filing a bug report. -- Ed Midas, they say, possessed the art of old Of turning whatsoe'er he touch'd to gold; This modern statesmen can reverse with ease - Touch them with gold, they'll turn to what you please. ~John Wolcot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Can't send email in Seamonkey 2.0
On Dec 21, 12:54 pm, marstokyo marsto...@gmail.com wrote: I just upgraded to Seamonkey 2.0. I like it for its mail feature. But now, when I try to send an email I get this message: Sending of message failed. An error occurred sending mail: Unable to authenticate to SMTP server smtp.earthlink.net. It does not support authentication (SMTP-AUTH) but you have chosen to use authentication. Uncheck 'Use name and password' for that server or contact your service provider. I'm using Earthlink.net and have tried to figure out how to correct this but to no avail. They're not interested in helping problems with Seamonkey. I use smtpauth.earthlink.net for sending mail. Look toward the bottom of the page from Earthlink knowledge base for setting up Thunderbird; it's similar: http://kb.earthlink.net/case.asp?article=127339 You do need username and password, make sure the port is 587. I've got Use secure authentication checked with Connection security: None and it works for me. Maybe unchecking that would also work, idk. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar
On or about 12/21/2009 4:35 PM, BeeNeR typed the following: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? S N I P Thanks to all who replied. My cockpit error. I guess the 12½ of snow that I shoveled got to me. Happy holidays to all. -- Ed Life consists not in holding good cards, but in playing well those we do hold. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Ray_Net wrote: Mike C wrote: Ken Rudolph wrote: Wow! I just noticed that the security upgrade to SM 2.0.1 was handled invisibly behind the scenes without my active participation or even noticing that it happened (although I think I did check approve without thinking about it when Zone Alarm told me that SeaMonkey was attempting to contact the Internet.) That's quite a change from SM 1.x, more like Firefox's upgrades. I'm not a huge fan of automatic updates, preferring to handle my computer tasks personally. But I have to admit I liked this a hell of a lot better than the backup/uninstall/download/reinstall method for past SM updates! Thanks, guys. I never did thebackup/uninstall/download/reinstall method. I always just installed updates over the old and it always just took care of itself no problem. It sounds like you went through a lot of unnecessary extra work. The unnecessary extra work was needed to avoid adding traces of previous versions in the windows registry. We don't know if this is again the case. It's bad form to install over top a previous version whether PC, Unix, Linux, or Mac. If there is the least bit of corruption it will remain. if you do a clean install then no traces of corruption are there (unless you have corrupt install). On Mac's to guarantee a clean install move current application to Trash (but do nor empty Trash) This forces an install to a different section of the hard drive. I assume on PC by creating a new directory to put an install in does the same thing. On windows, you have to use the windows part Add/remove Programs to remove the old application letting a clean windows-registry. Then start the SM-install program. Each OS has their own system of doing a clean install. One curiosity: On Snow Leopard from what I've been reading You are not asked whether to do a clean install. It can be done but you now have to go through some hoops to do so. ...not just Sno-Lep. For any install of SM on a Mac you just drag the app from the disk image to where you want it. So I'm left thinking that a truly clean install on a Mac would require wiping out everything associated with SM by using a third party app like App Delete. Which would of course mean you'd also be deleting all of your previous Profile and Pref information. I'm talking about install of Snow leopard system from the DVD. Most all applications either install from a dmg file , Pkg install or drag from dmg to appropriate folder. If you leave the old application in the applications folder (Directory) it will ask if you wish to replace and older version If you move old app to Trash you don't get this message. ...oh, I thought you were talking about a clean install of SM or other apps. As for Mac OS system upgrades, I've always just installed them over the existing system and never had any issues. I do the Repair Permissions dance both before and after system upgrade/install, but other than that nothing special. In previous installs to Snow Leopard You were asked to do either a clean install or Archive and Install, or install over previous install I tried installing X.4 over 3 and never could not get it to work finally I had to use the option of archive and install. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/21/2009 12:33 PM, Ant wrote: On 12/21/2009 11:35 AM PT, David E. Ross typed: I don't use RedBox. Thus, I'm putting the burden on you (Ant). If this is not fixed within the next two weeks or so, send a letter to the CEO of the company. Don't be too technical, but point out (1) they are excluding a portion of their potential customer base and (2) they are risking a lawsuit under the ADA. I will definitely check in a week or so when I am on Christmas break to rent some DVDs. ;) It looks like this issue is resolved. :) I still see the problem. Is it possible you are spoofing Firefox? Nope, using real User Agent. No problems again when I checked. I am using Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.6) Gecko/20091206 SeaMonkey/2.0.1. Ah. Now it's working. Did you change something since last time? I cleared my cache. -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other Mozilla-related applications. You can access Mozdev much more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus schrieb: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Just been looking over the user options between the two, and I have to say that as far as the user is concerned, 1.1.18 had/has far more user flexibility for configuration, far more informative dialog boxes, buttons I could actually use, and with few exceptions behaved as I wanted it to... Which configuration options and buttons are missing for you now? Have you filed enhancements bugs for them? Martin Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, Afaik Mail/News does not execute Javacript in SM2, so you turn it on/off for the browser individually ;-) not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what Browser? MailNews? smaller non-user friendly buttons, This only targets the progress window of downloads, right? I haven't seen other buttons shrinking in SM2 that much. no Forms Manager...to name a few. This is no button and no preference ;-) (though I know many people are missing it of course) I've already been informed that things like the Forms Manager are dead and gone for good. Only until someone steps in to develop one. Martin -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - http://www.asciiribbon.org/index-de.html ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Bookmarks Icon in Personal Toolbar (SOLVED)
BeeNeR wrote: On or about 12/21/2009 5:16 PM, Jens Hatlak typed the following: BeeNeR wrote: How do I turn off the Bookmarks Icon in my Personal Toolbar? Right click it, choose Customize... and drag it into the window/dialog/sheet that opens. The 'HELP' file says it can be turned off: Help has not been updated for that; I just filed Bug 536257. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=536257 Thanks for noticing! :-) Seems to be unneccessary in the 'Personal Toolbar' anyhow since there is already a way to get to 'Bookmarks' via the 'File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Window Help line. It's certainly redundant but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's really a matter of opinion: Some like it like that, others (like you) don't. SeaMonkey is all about choice so you're free to set it up the way you like it, and others may do so as well. HTH Jens Thanks Jens - I did try that (only once) and must be I didn't drag it as far as thought I did since it didn't work. My bad for not trying it again. Just went to 'HELP' to see if I was doing something wrong and found out the 'HELP' file didn't really help. All's under control now. And thanks for filing a bug report. Personal Toolbar is very handy. you can have a folder full bookmarks you want handy or you can drag links from navigation bar directly to personal Toolbar. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
On 12/21/2009 3:05 PM, Lemuel Johnson wrote: David E. Ross wrote: /snip/ Yes. I wish the Vanguard Group (mutual funds) would be so accommodating. They insist that Gecko is NOT Gecko and that they support Firefox but not SeaMonkey. Worse, they even lock out SeaMonkey when I spoof Firefox with SeaMonkey still in the UA string. That's odd. I've never had any problem with Vanguard. To confirm, I just went to vanguard.com, clicked on Go to the Site under Personal Investors, logged in and accessed my account info. No spoofing, no extensions. Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.23) Gecko/20090825 SeaMonkey/1.1.18 Lem Johnson This is bug #417955, which I first submitted almost two years ago. (See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=417955.) I have communicated with Vanguard several times since then about this, but they refuse to accept that Gecko is Gecko. The problem is getting worse, not better. Now they tell me that the reason their server stops responding after I've downloaded about half of a 500 KB form is because I'm using SeaMonkey. Someone must have actually looked at the raw server logs because I was spoofing Firefox at the time. No, I don't have trouble accessing the current state of my account even when I don't spoof. But I can't get tax forms without spoofing Firefox. I think they are changing CEO the first of next year. I will write a postal letter to the new CEO then. -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ Go to Mozdev at http://www.mozdev.org/ for quick access to extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other Mozilla-related applications. You can access Mozdev much more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Benoit Renard wrote: Leonidas Jones wrote: Phil, in large measure, kept SM 1.1.x usable by his incredible work on xSidebar and porting Firefox and Thunderbird extensions to work in SeaMonkey. Without that, 1.1.x was really not a usable piece of work, at least without Multizilla, which basically converted it to another application entirely. I object to this. SeaMonkey 1.1.x is very usable without extensions. Well, it depends on your usage. Sure it works. But so does Safari/Mail, FF/TB, Opera, and any other number of other applications, or combination of applications. Heck, so does Netscape 7.2, though the browser is feeling its age. But to get it to work for me, with the functions I depend on, requires extensions. I have a great appreciation for the convenience of one application for mail, newsgroups, and RSS feeds. SM 1.1.x out of the box does not do RSS, it requires an extension, Forumzilla worked pretty well for me. PrefBar is a convenience, but a very handy one that I install first thing. Web Developer Toolbar is one I rely on. Mnenhy, Quote Collapse, Quote Colors, FolderPane Tools make Mail/News far more usable. Lightning has become a must have for full functionality. FlashBlock, Tab Clicking Options are very important to me for function in the browser. FireFTP is handy. ForecastFox is not a really necessary item, but I also find it very handy. A lot of these extensions were fine in SM 1 1.x, but many required xSidebar to install. Without xSidebar and the Extension Manager extension, there was no extension management to peak of, making it a real chore. So sure, if your needs are simply to browse the internet, read mail and newsgroups, SM 1.1.x is fine out of the box. For me it is not, and I stand by my statement. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:28:43 -0200, MCBastos wrote: You have a boat. It has a wooden hull, it's old and leaky. You have three guys to work on the boat. They spend all the time plugging leaks. Then someone offers you a brand-new, fiberglass hull. You move your engine, bunks, head, kitchen etc. to the new hull. Only, a couple bunks didn't fit the new hull (despite it being actually a little bigger), so you had to do without them for the time being. Sure, right now you have less bunks -- but your three guys have a lot of free time now, so they fewer bunks. Phil (sorry, couldn't resist) -- Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief, oh Night, and so be good for us to pass. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: 2.0.1 upgrade
Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: ...not just Sno-Lep. For any install of SM on a Mac you just drag the app from the disk image to where you want it. So I'm left thinking that a truly clean install on a Mac would require wiping out everything associated with SM by using a third party app like App Delete. Which would of course mean you'd also be deleting all of your previous Profile and Pref information. I'm talking about install of Snow leopard system from the DVD. Most all applications either install from a dmg file , Pkg install or drag from dmg to appropriate folder. If you leave the old application in the applications folder (Directory) it will ask if you wish to replace and older version If you move old app to Trash you don't get this message. ...oh, I thought you were talking about a clean install of SM or other apps. As for Mac OS system upgrades, I've always just installed them over the existing system and never had any issues. I do the Repair Permissions dance both before and after system upgrade/install, but other than that nothing special. In previous installs to Snow Leopard You were asked to do either a clean install or Archive and Install, or install over previous install I tried installing X.4 over 3 and never could not get it to work finally I had to use the option of archive and install. I think I've only ever done an Archive and Install once, and I can't remember what the reason was...I must have been troubleshooting something. I installed Sno-Lep right over Lep on my Intel iMac, and Lep right over 10.5.x on my G5 iMac. Which I sort of wish I hadn't done now...I should have partitioned that drive an created a tri-boot capable machine, or dual boot at the very least. I still have uses for OS 9, so one of these days I'll clone that drive, partition, and do the dance to at least make it dual boot. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: Just been looking over the user options between the two, and I have to say that as far as the user is concerned, 1.1.18 had/has far more user flexibility for configuration, far more informative dialog boxes, buttons I could actually use, and with few exceptions behaved as I wanted it to... Which configuration options and buttons are missing for you now? Have you filed enhancements bugs for them? Martin Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, Afaik Mail/News does not execute Javacript in SM2, so you turn it on/off for the browser individually ;-) Yes - that's my point. There are some digital art groups I subscribe to where I'd like to have it on...SM 1.1.18 allowed me to choose - now I can't. not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what Browser? MailNews? Password and Forms Managers, and when storing or retaining PII in general - it was pretty clear in the past that SM 1.1.x was using strong 128 bit encryption for Password storage...in 2.x.x they dropped the notification text from the dialog, and when it comes to encryption I never assume anything - other than that if you don't specifically tell me otherwise I assume that I'm vulnerable. I have no idea what it did for stored Form or other PII because it's never said anything about it in that regard. And that's likely why I've never used Form Manager in the past. smaller non-user friendly buttons, This only targets the progress window of downloads, right? I haven't seen other buttons shrinking in SM2 that much. That's the most notable one - though I recently discovered (last night) that there's some funkiness going on with the Customization of the Taskbars too - if you select use small icons it changes both the Navigation and Personal Taskbars to small. If you then select use large icons it changes both the Navigation and Personal Taskbars to large. What I like is large buttons in the Navigation bar, and small ones in my Personal bar...I had to dance around to find out that the user has to AGAIN select Customize/Large and that that will change the Navigation buttons only. That's pretty hokey...but I got what I wanted back. And I found I could only right-click up a contextual menu if I right clicked in the Navigation Taskbar - that was the confusing part; I should have been able to select either independently, I would think. That's intuitive. Based on that I can only assume there are others I haven't discovered yet because I haven't played with that part of the interface. Then there was the whole of the new default more Mac-like interface...I was only able to tolerate that about four days, then I replaced it with the other Modern one. And I'm a Mac user...I do have to say, the folks on Thunderbird did a way better job making a Mac-like Mac presentation - kudos there. no Forms Manager...to name a few. This is no button and no preference ;-) (though I know many people are missing it of course) At least that's a proper segue... I've already been informed that things like the Forms Manager are dead and gone for good. Only until someone steps in to develop one. Martin Yup...I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?till not an answer
Philip Chee wrote: On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:28:43 -0200, MCBastos wrote: You have a boat. It has a wooden hull, it's old and leaky. You have three guys to work on the boat. They spend all the time plugging leaks. Then someone offers you a brand-new, fiberglass hull. You move your engine, bunks, head, kitchen etc. to the new hull. Only, a couple bunks didn't fit the new hull (despite it being actually a little bigger), so you had to do without them for the time being. Sure, right now you have less bunks -- but your three guys have a lot of free time now, so they fewer bunks. Phil (sorry, couldn't resist) ...it's de-bunked. (I couldn't resist either...) -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Who are Seamonkey's core user base?
In news:cfadnyjlv636srlwnz2dnuvz_hidn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: »Q« wrote: In news:j7qdntbkupghy7pwnz2dnuvz_uwdn...@mozilla.org, Rufus n...@home.com wrote: »Q« wrote: The form manager feature of SeaMonkey 1.x isn't in SM 2.0.x because the codebase which supports it has been abandoned by the people working on Mozilla core code. Polling users wouldn't make those people re-implement it for the newer codebase, and the SeaMonkey team hasn't (yet) been able to do that themselves. ...so, what you've just told me is that the Form Manager doesn't have a snowball's chance of coming back. That's not at all what I've just told you or even based on what I've just told you. You must have some other reason for thinking there will never again be a form manager in SeaMonkey. ...you used the words abandoned and core. That means no, as far as I'm concerned. You're right that no one will revive the Mozilla 1.8 code, but that certainly doesn't mean that SeaMonkey will never again have a forms manager. -- »Q« /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / against html e-mailX http://asciiribbon.org/ / \ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
chk only
jim ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Rufus wrote: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: /snip/ Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what, smaller non-user friendly buttons, no Forms Manager...to name a few. No, javascript for mail/news is not in the ui, but it is easy to enable in about:config, and when mnenhy is available for 2.0. it will be in the Folder Options, where I most need it. The lack of Mnenhy is diminished by the RSS feed capability, which allows the RSS feeds to display as web pages. I have only a couple of newsgroups where enabling js is an issue. I've already been informed that things like the Forms Manager are dead and gone for good. And yes - I've filed a bug about the small buttons, but the individual who put them there doesn't seem inclined to correct his mistake. You are wrong about the Forms Manager. There are already extensions that add some of that functionality back, anf, saas Phil Chee posted a while back, it is under discussion for adding it back, at least in some form. /snip/ If Firefox/Thunderbird are harbingers of what's to become of SM due to the SM team not being able to maintain their own code content for functionality, then I'll just stick with SM 1.1.18 and call it good - like some enterprise users I know that still depend on Netscape. I've tried to get those users to upgrade from NS to SM in the past, I'm not really sure I have a reason to do that any longer. No I don't think so. Isn't the point of the SeaMonkey project to reintegrate the split projects into a workable suite? I would suggest giving it some time. It works very well for my personal use. For business use it may take a while longer. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: The SM2 downgrade
Martin Freitag wrote: If you fetch mail in start, wouldn't it be required then? It's possible that you have to disable that functionality in the preferences to get rid of an initial asking for the Master-PW. I'm not using it for mail, and it isn't checking anything at startup. Or at least, all the settings for doing so are off. I've never heared that before about SM2 compared to SM1, I would recommend testing with another profile or in safe-mode. Nice to hear you tried... I think I've found the problem. SM 2 appears to try to use a proxy even when told not to. This is a problem when the proxy doesn't exist (which is why it is told not to use it.) Flashblock will not install. It just gets itself into an install loop: every time you start SM 2.0.1, Flashblock tries to install again. Flashblock works like a charm in SM2, that's another reason I think your SM2-installation and/or profile is not ok. Well, it got itself into this state all by itself, and didn't work right from the very moment it was installed. Looks like you're not even willing to find a solution, but just complaining about the current state, this won't get you any further, sry. When flashblock works fine for all others you should consider your setup being corrupted somehow. This might even be your file-system and not SM itself. I simply stated what it did. I just expected so much more of SM2, and have ended up disappointed. (BTW, it is not my file system at fault.) The new download progress dialog's ridiculous small buttons are another issue, but this has been beaten to death (and I wish this new design had been). I would prefer a different functionality too but I don't have the time/knoweledge (yet?) to change it myself. I'm using the download statusbar extension for now. regards Sadly, using a multitude of extensions to fix what is broken is becoming more necessary. A disease that's carried over from Firefox in my opinion. Graham. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: inhibit asking for plugins
Gerd Schweizer wrote: Since SM2 everytimes when loading SM waits for an answer whether i want to download plugins for DOM and Chatzilla. Although i didn't install them. How can i inhibit this question? I'm not seeing this, however, Chatzilla, the IRC chat client, which useful for accessing developer discussions, and test days, among other things, and the DOM inspector, which is useful for troubleshooting, are both pre-installed extensions as a part of the suite. If you prefer not to use these components, they can be removed via Tools??Addons. Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: SM 2.0.1 vs 1.1.18...again...
Leonidas Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Martin Freitag wrote: Rufus schrieb: /snip/ Not being able to turn Javascript on for the Browser or Mail/News individually, not knowing just what form of encryption is being applied where and to what, smaller non-user friendly buttons, no Forms Manager...to name a few. No, javascript for mail/news is not in the ui, but it is easy to enable in about:config, and when mnenhy is available for 2.0. it will be in the Folder Options, where I most need it. The lack of Mnenhy is diminished by the RSS feed capability, which allows the RSS feeds to display as web pages. I have only a couple of newsgroups where enabling js is an issue. I've already been informed that things like the Forms Manager are dead and gone for good. And yes - I've filed a bug about the small buttons, but the individual who put them there doesn't seem inclined to correct his mistake. You are wrong about the Forms Manager. There are already extensions that add some of that functionality back, anf, saas Phil Chee posted a while back, it is under discussion for adding it back, at least in some form. ...it's the some form part that worries me. /snip/ If Firefox/Thunderbird are harbingers of what's to become of SM due to the SM team not being able to maintain their own code content for functionality, then I'll just stick with SM 1.1.18 and call it good - like some enterprise users I know that still depend on Netscape. I've tried to get those users to upgrade from NS to SM in the past, I'm not really sure I have a reason to do that any longer. No I don't think so. Isn't the point of the SeaMonkey project to reintegrate the split projects into a workable suite? I would suggest giving it some time. It works very well for my personal use. For business use it may take a while longer. Lee You've just backed up what I've said - if all that is going on is to tie FF and TB together, well, that's not what I was formerly getting when I chose to use SM over the two of them separately. SM set the bar pretty high by giving me more, and now that's what I expect to continue. Yes time will tell...but that will also give me time to look elsewhere. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Redbox.com doesn't like SeaMonkey v2?
Ah. Now it's working. Did you change something since last time? I cleared my cache. Ah. :) -- It is not enough to be busy, so are the ants. The question is: what are we busy about? --Henry David Thoreau /\___/\ / /\ /\ \Phil./Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) | |o o| | Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net \ _ / Nuke ANT from e-mail address: phi...@earthlink.netant ( ) or ant...@zimage.com Ant is currently not listening to any songs on his home computer. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
