Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
For those that don't read German, there are English versions of the manuals in the manuals section... Dave On 23 March 2014 20:35, Jan Jacob Hofmann wrote: > Hi Alessandro, > > if it is an installation (fixed media) you could go for a wavepayer: > > > http://www.memsolution.com/ > > it is a sd-card-player, easy to use and you can use it stand alone, so you > do not have to bring your computer necessarily on site. > > Cheers, > > Jan Jacob > > > > > sound | movement | object | > space > sonic architecture |site: http://www.sonicarchitecture.de > spatial electronic composition | higher order ambisonic music > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140328/760cb244/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Soundfield 450 Mk2
I, too, find it really odd that a facility that was there in the very earliest production Soundfields (and which I used as a matter of course every time I used them) is no longer there in this model even tho' it would cost less to add it now than back in the 70's. Still, it IS about the only thing that there is wrong with it :-) Dave On 20 March 2014 12:57, Jon Honeyball wrote: > > Pity this *still* doesn¹t have a 1K tone generator at say -20dB, allowing > you to properly calibrate the input levels and replay of your recorder, > which almost certainly doesn¹t have ganged controls. The Sounddevices 788T > can do this, but others can¹t. Missed opportunity. > > Jon > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140330/46904f66/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] BBC Radio Three Surround Streaming Trial (15. to 31. March)
48 kHz is pretty well the international standard sample rate for broadcast organisation and has been since they started upgrading from the 32kHz used (by the Beeb) for distributing audio to FM transmitters back in the late 60's. Dave On 19 March 2014 16:47, Aaron Heller wrote: > I downloaded the MPD file on the FAQ page with >wget http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/dash/ondemand/channel_test/1/5.mpd > > If I'm reading it correctly, the channel announcements are 320 kbits/sec, > 48k sample rate. > > > Aaron > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Kees de Visser >wrote: > > > On 19 Mar 2014, at 07:33, David Pickett wrote: > > > I suspect that most of the problems last night were at the originating > > end, though there were cases when there were beats missing as the stream > > caught up, which seemed more likely to be delays in the Internet. > > > > from the BBC blog: > > > 21. Rupert Brun, 18TH MARCH 2014 - 22:20 > > > I am sorry we lost the stream before the end of the concert this > > evening, this was due to a problem with the internet connection to the > > server at the Southbank. > > > > What would the bitrate be ? I'm also curious about the delay. Has anyone > > been able to compare the streamed audio to "fast radio" ? > > > > Kees de Visser > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140319/cac673b8/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140330/f4581a98/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] bluetooth + ambisonics
Although the idea has real potential, not sure if these units are particularly useful as the appear to only support 2.1 systems. Would need investigating, including looking at synchronisation issues... Dave On 4 April 2014 12:06, Matthew Palmer wrote: > My friend has one of these ( > http://www.creative.com/letsgowireless/section_2.aspx) and it made me > wonder if anyone had made a wireless/Bluetooth ambisonics set-up. > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140404/b4971921/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140404/34f0a4f7/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
Lets not worry too much about silicon - it's ridiculously cheap these days, so long as you are not going for the top end. If we are to use cheap, ready built, USB units and not our own purpose built kit (and that's not unthinkable, this is the age of the maker, right?) I think it all hinges on two things, synchronisation and bit rate. For 24 bits and 48 Khz, which is, I guess, about the lowest we'd all be happy with, that's 1152 kilobits per second, which means for USB 2, a practical limit of 8/10 channels per plug, all things being equal. This is why there are 7.1 units out there. For USB 3 this goes up by a factor of 20, at least theoretically. Whether having more than 1 USB socket on your computer helps is implementation dependent. Synchronisation is the real killer for cheap units as they frequently don't have clock input so the the clocks would have to be free running. This could easily run into 360mS of error (at the typical error of 0.01% on xtal clocks) at an hour into a piece. Having some of your speakers effectively 100 m further away is _not_ good [?] . That's what you could get, tho' some systems will deal with this by designating one interface as the master, and sending data via a sample rate converter to the other(s). This keeps the audio in sync tho' quality might suffer because of the src. I have to say that my experience of the src in the Mac works really well and I've run 24 outputs of this Mac with one set of 8 outputs (on an FA101) going through the internal src without any noticeable problems. (albeit that was Firewire and not USB). My own personal feeling is that using a dedicated processor, preferably ARM based, and the TDI interface, possibly using an RJ45 plug and ethernet cabling, would be the best approach- on the other hand, we saw a plethora of cheap multichannel boards talked about a few days ago, why not go for them? Dave On 6 April 2014 03:38, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > On 2014-04-06, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > Can you do this with any 7.1 usb card ? Wich did you use ? >> > > Well now you opened a can of worms even on my behalf. What really is the > minimal, asymptotic per-channel cost of well-synchronized multichannel > audio D/A? Let's say, presuming you can only draw whatever power you can > from an USB3 port, or a PoE enabled Gigabit Ethernet one? Then presupposing > at least CD level 98dB (linear unfiltered SPL) S/N for any outbound signal > is required? How many outbound analog, balanced connections could you > honestly claim to be able to do, at the standard levels? And once you got > that, what's the cost-against-number-of-chn curve? What's the curve against > diminishing voltage, assuming as little output current as you can achieve > over our outputs in average? How would you achieve the optimum scaling > using extant mass-produced, mutually syncronizable to > sampling-time-accurate D/A-chips at your disposal? Which were the chips > precisely which you would utilize? Are they really the cheapest out there > even taking into account the external components they require in order to > function properly, and how/why do they scale out/in-parallel? > > Seriously, guys, this is like the Grail of low cost ambisonic on the > hardware side. Right now we can do first order at four hifi outputs, but > quite likely we can't even do eight for second order. Simply forget about > third or fourth order using any current standard interconnect, either > because you can't get the data across, or because nobody likes an > extraneous transformer for something like this. > > So if we do it as compatibly and harmlessly and most efficiently as we > can, all round, where're connector count, power and datarate curves per > dollar, here? > -- > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front > +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140406/9ed8c10b/attachment.html> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 104 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140406/9ed8c10b/attachment.gif> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Inexpensive USB multichannel sound card
on't require > reprogrammability (which takes at least an order of magnitude away from the > cost). > > Now, this is obviously just another one of my wild ideas. It's highly > unlikely I would be in the position to try it out, at least any time soon. > There's still a rather hefty base investment when you do something like > this. But sorta, kinda, I believe the basic economics ought to pan out; I > don't think even ridiculous channel counts are mainly hard today because of > the cost of production, but because of the low demand and the amortization > problems it causes. If so, something like this would be one helluva match > with circuit design class projects, Kickstarter-like nerdy crowdfunding, or > the kind of hobbyist/researcher ecosystem we have even on this list. > -- > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front > +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140416/64c8fdfd/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] inexpensive, scalable, ethernet, D/A, and more
I don't understand the problem - there's no need for esoterica, just a decent clock distribution schema, surely? If you want to go to network type infrastructures, then why wouldn't you go with a standard like Ravenna/AES67? Just asking, not criticising. Dave On 18 April 2014 05:14, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > On 2014-04-18, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > > What's not to like? ;) >> > > (Obviously how you'd synch the clocks of millions of converters. > > But there we then have the kind of back channel algorithm available over > distributed analog networks which doesn't work too well over the digital > ones. There is a certain analog, stochastic, swarm algorithm, derived from > our understanding of how swarms of certain bioluminescent insects > synchronize their light. It can be guaranteed to either take everybody into > global synch, or exactly into 180 degree phase discrepancy with their > neighbours. So, using some simple logic and control theory, and compounding > the basic protocol, you can not only guarantee full global synch starting > from whichever condition, but also exponential global convergence to zero > mutual phase shift. Subject only to noise, which you can then too engineer > into reasonable and scalable levels, using old school control theory. > > This is why I say you need a backchannel in order to synch the converters: > you could well do upto about 32 or 128 channels simply by engineering your > clock distribution tree *just* right. At about those numbers, you could > also still run a high time constant PLL over ethernet, and eventually land > at sample accurate registration between multiple, separated converter > boards. But beyond that, you just can't do it easily via any other means > than a dedicated, backchannel swarm algorithm.) > -- > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front > +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140418/bb6e8da2/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] TetraMic and Jaunt VR in Time, Gizmodo and Engadget (Virtual Reality Recording System)
ee > or > >> experience myself. So I am kind of sceptical, but still open to change > my > >> mind. On the other hand I won't tell anybody that VR movies are > supposed to > >> be < the next big thing > if not a single movie exists. Fair > enough...) > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Stefan > >> > > > > _______ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > > > > > > -- > http://etiennedeleflie.net > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140519/1cffce8e/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140519/71450b86/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Sound localisation techniques
and - you can do it in HOA, which you can't with a Soundfield (Harpex use excepted) Dave On 29 April 2014 00:15, Richard G Elen wrote: > On 28/04/2014 18:31, Levi Self wrote: > >> The tracks will not be in B-format as I do not have a soundfield mic. >> > > Just as an aside, you don't need a soundfield mic to work in B-Format or > Ambisonics. A soundfield mic is to B-Format as a coincident pair is to > stereo: very nice if your work suits that type of recording (most > commercial recording doesn't), but by no means obligatory. You can use > panpots and put conventional close-miked sources anywhere you like, for > example. > > --Richard E > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140519/2a8e2e62/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone
Good grief - you printed the metal frame? I thought that was still very expensive? Dave On 5 May 2014 22:15, Hector Centeno wrote: > No, the capsules are not printed (it would be great if I could!). The white > holder and metal frame where 3D printed. > > Best, > > Hector > On May 5, 2014 2:00 PM, "Stefan Schreiber" wrote: > > > Hector Centeno wrote: > > > > Hello all, > >> > >> I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D > printed > >> parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people > >> here > >> with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any > comments > >> will be very appreciated. > >> > >> A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg > >> Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the description): > >> https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa > >> > >> Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more > >> sensitive > >> than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me). > >> > >> Thanks and best wishes, > >> > >> Hector > >> > >> > > > > Really cool, and very creative! > > > > < Which > parts did you actually print? You can't print the capsules > > itself, can you? > > > > It is probably not just me who would like to ask this question... > > > > Best regards, > > > > Stefan > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140505/fb3d2d02/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140521/68214d14/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] parallella board
As it has an SPI interface, it should be usable with multichannel DAC's. The main chip also has a lot of FPGA which could be tasked with providing more SPI interfaces. A very interesting board indeed. Dave On 13 May 2014 15:51, wrote: > Indeed that is an interesting board. However, hidden in a comment trail on > the blog they note that there was limited funding for the production run of > the 64 processor board. This resulted in higher cost/unit and a very > limited quantity being produced. The net of that is that all that were made > are already committed, so none with be available for purchase. > > Michael > > - Original Message - Subject: [Sursound] parallella board > From: "JQ Adams" > Date: 5/13/14 1:59 am > To: "Surround Sound discussion group" > > Hi all. > > Does anyone have any experience or plans to perform audio-related > processing using one of these boards with the Adapteva 16-core > coprocessor? > > http://www.parallella.org > > It's cheap and low power (RaspberryPi-esque) but seemingly quite capable > of > significant workloads (especially the upcoming 64-core version). > > I figured it may be useful for many channel decoding of B-format to > speaker > feeds, or doing some heavy lifting in FIR calculations for > room-equalization, etc. > > I have in mind echo cancelers and convolving out the room contribution for > VC applications. However I don't know enough about chip architecture to > know whether this would be a good choice over more conventional (SHARC) > DSPs. I see that this is only 32-bit float capable in hardware, whereas > math functions in the SHARC ar 40-bit precision. For proper scientific > computing, double floats (64-bit) are usually desired, but I'm uncertain > whether this applies to the audio domain. > > Any thoughts? > > Cheers, > JQ > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140513/b1afb20d/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140513/e82d6e8c/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140521/e60bec24/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] B-Fromat microphone
Last time I looked at something like that, they were talking hundreds Dave On 21 May 2014 19:16, Hector Centeno wrote: > Hi Dave, > > Yes, the metal frame was 3D printed. It costed about $28. > > Best, > > Hector > Dave Malham wrote: > > Good grief - you printed the metal frame? I thought that was still very > > expensive? > > > > Dave > > > > > > It would be cheaper to print the capsules. 'Cos you would need less > material than for the frame... :-) > > Stefan > > > > > On 5 May 2014 22:15, Hector Centeno wrote: > > > > > > > >> No, the capsules are not printed (it would be great if I could!). The > >> white > >> holder and metal frame where 3D printed. > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> Hector > >> On May 5, 2014 2:00 PM, "Stefan Schreiber" > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> Hector Centeno wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello all, > >>> > >>> > >>>> I've been experimenting with making a native B-Format mic using 3D > >>>> > >>>> > >>> printed > >> > >> > >>> parts. I've done some recordings with it and I was wondering if people > >>>> here > >>>> with ambisonic playback systems could give one of them a try. Any > >>>> > >>>> > >>> comments > >> > >> > >>> will be very appreciated. > >>>> > >>>> A photo of the mic: http://www.hcenteno.net/extras/b-format_mic.jpg > >>>> Link to binaural decode and link to B-Format file (in the > description): > >>>> https://soundcloud.com/hcenteno/wow-what-is-that-papa > >>>> > >>>> Change the level of the W channel to taste (the W capsule is more > >>>> sensitive > >>>> than the rest so I had to reduce it to what sounded good to me). > >>>> > >>>> Thanks and best wishes, > >>>> > >>>> Hector > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Really cool, and very creative! > >>> > >>> < Which > parts did you actually print? You can't print the capsules > >>> itself, can you? > >>> > >>> It is probably not just me who would like to ask this question... > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> Stefan > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Sursound mailing list > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >> attachments/20140505/fb3d2d02/attachment.html > >> > >> _______ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20140521/d71be264/attachment.html> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140521/2b348b36/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140522/6b51990b/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] WFS systems
I was just about to mention that. Dave P.S. Hope the weather is better there than here at the moment, Fons... On 22 May 2014 10:15, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:25:58AM +0200, Lasse Munk wrote: > > > As I understand Aalborg University in Copenhagen (AAU), Denmark, > > just began making experiments with WFS. I'm not sure how big it is, > > but they are working with it along with motion tracking for > > different applications. It seems quite interesting. > > There's a 189 channel system in Parma (Italy), see > the third item here: > <http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/papers/index.html> > > -- > FA > > A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. > It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris > and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140522/793e6347/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] bbc gear for sale
Might be some stuff of interest (no Soundfields tho'!) http://www.ppauctions.com/_assets/auctions/115/flysheet/Flysheet.pdf Dave -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140604/764f4904/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] And now for something different...
Oh, for cryin' out loud. Makes you want to weep - Microsoft reinventing again what's already been done and (most of) the rest of the world believing they're the originators... Dave On 20 June 2014 17:52, David Pickett wrote: > http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527826/microsofts-3- > d-audio-gives-virtual-objects-a-voice/ > > David > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140621/2f617731/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] EAA Joint Symposium on Auralization and Ambisonics (April 2014)
Hi folks, Just got round to reading the book of abstracts for the meeting and boy, am I kicking myself for missing it! This was down to a combination of failing to put it in my calendar (and so it faded from my Aged Person's Memory over the course of a year since the announcement) and going off wandering around the Peak District in our motor home - I should have driven to Berlin instead :-( Anyway, maybe someone can give Surrsound a report on the conference? Dave -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140621/443a5db1/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] XCore system
Has anyone come across this - http://www.xmos.com/applications/audio - looks lke it might provide a very interesting (and cheap) platform for future Ambisonic/multichannel developments. Dave -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140621/6b9faf74/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] And now for something different...
I have to be fair - this was my colleague Tony Tew from the Department of Electronics that was in charge of this... Dave On 21 June 2014 21:12, Michael Chapman wrote: > > Dave Malham wrote: > > > >> Oh, for cryin' out loud. Makes you want to weep - Microsoft reinventing > >> again what's already been done and (most of) the rest of the world > >> believing they're the originators... > > > > I am no fan of Microsoft, but this seems a little > > harsh. Quickly producing an approximate > > personalized HRTF using only head and > > shoulders is new, and potentially useful. > > > > 'harsh' about M$ ... I only wish I had Douglas Adams' words to hand ... > > IIRC years ago there was a student project, > IIRC it was York (in which case Dave is being modest), > and (I hyberbolise) the project was the tech side for a concept to cover > the country with Tardi (?Tardises): > You went in, put two pennies in slot A, pushed button B, and out popped > your HRTF. > > We could make enquiries as to which old peoples' home the then students > are now in and approach them for details, I suppose ... > > Half in jest, > > Michael > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140621/a0280b9d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] And now for something different...
Potentially very useful indeed, especially if they make it at least reasonably open. For my own part, my "oh for crying out loud" rant should have been more obviously aimed at the tone of the press release which was what I was really upset by. However, please note I reserve the right to get annoyed at Microsoft in future, at least when when it is merited :-) Dave On 22 June 2014 15:59, Stefan Schreiber wrote: > Martin Leese wrote: > > Dave Malham wrote: >> >> >> >>> Oh, for cryin' out loud. Makes you want to weep - Microsoft reinventing >>> again what's already been done and (most of) the rest of the world >>> believing they're the originators... >>> >>> >> >> I am no fan of Microsoft, but this seems a little >> harsh. Quickly producing an approximate >> personalized HRTF using only head and >> shoulders is new, and potentially useful. >> >> > > I believe very useful, and (together with similar projects) very possibly > on the right track to convincingly reproduce surround sound/3D audio via > headphones. > We have discussed this area here on this list several times before, see > (for example) some sursound postings from the 16th of May (2014) ... > > (Thread: "TetraMic and JauntVR in Time...") > > ... >> >> umashankar manthravadi wrote: >>> >>> Dear Stefan how does one create hrtfs/hrirs from photos - of the >>>> pinnae, I assume? >>>> >>>> Umashankar >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> IV. >>> >>> http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/HRTF/docs/PHRTFpaper_final.pdf >>> >>> Accurate rendering of 3D spatial audio for interactive virtual auditory >>>> displays requires the use of personalized head related transfer >>>> functions (HRTFs). We present a new approach to compute personalized >>>> HRTFs for any individual based on combining state-of-theart >>>> image-based 3D modeling with an efficient numerical simulation >>>> pipeline. Our 3D modeling framework enables capture of the >>>> listener’s head and torso using consumer-grade digital cameras to >>>> estimate a high resolution non-parametric surface representation of >>>> the head, including extended vicinity of the listener’s ear. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> The JauntVR people/developpers might take note of fig. 4 in the cited >> document. >> >> Figure 4: Typical use-case scenario for the personalized HRTFs computed >>> by our pipeline. The user is being delivered a virtual experience >>> through the HMD as well as through spatial sound rendered using the >>> personalized HRTF computed for them by our technique. >>> >> >> >> >> The HMD happens to be an Oculus Rift. >> >> Oh my dear, it is such a small world... >> >> >> Best, >> >> Stefan >> >> > Whole thread: > > https://www.mail-archive.com/sursound%40music.vt.edu/msg05743.html > > The cited research paper (the .pdf-link above) and other (provided) links > to papers in the thread show that Microsoft is - very obviously! - not > "first" in this area. But of course they should have some real interest in > this, because of their Kinect camera. > > > Tashev says he is now working to improve the capture system and make it >> smooth and speedy enough to be something a person < with a Kinect camera >> might be able to do at home >. >> >> Mark Billinghurst, a professor and leader of the Human Interface Lab at >> the University of Canterbury, New Zealand, says that the approach developed >> by Microsoft could have a broad impact if the scanning process can be made >> practical enough >> > > It makes absoutely sense for Microsoft to look into this area, because of > their obvious interests in computer/console games, VR, interfaces etc. > > You could also reproduce surround < recordings > (our interest...) via a a > sophisticated binaural decoder, employing head-tracking and personalized > HRTF/BRTF sets. (See Smyth Realiser, "prior art".) > > There have been a lot of projects trying to derive more or less accurate > HRTF data from 3D scans and (2D) photos. What still is needed is to > improve these methods. > > And actually, to apply them in some real-world scenario... :-) > > > From the MIT Technology Review article: >> >> "That somewhat eerie experience was made >> possible because less than a
Re: [Sursound] Home Dolby Atmos: Overhead audio without the overhead loudspeaker?
Interesting...maybe the clue is in the text "it all comes down to understanding the physics of sound waves" together with the bit about " new Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers that produce full, detailed overhead sound from speakers located where your conventional speakers are now" which suggests that they are bouncing stuff of the ceiling like the old and largely unlamented Bose stuff from a couple of decades ago. Or, they could be using HSS type systems to put virtual spots of sound up there or... Dave On 24 June 2014 11:07, James Anthony Enda Bates wrote: > So Dolby Atmos for the home will have overhead audio, without overhead > loudspeakers? Will be interesting to see how that is attempted. Some kind > of transaural processing maybe? > http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-atmos-coming-soon-living-room-near/ > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140624/f5cfd2f7/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140624/5666bd0a/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] MULTI - 3d-audio concert in Bergen, Norway, 26th June
hey Martin, no worries, best of luck with your piece. Now, how do I persuade my wife that it would be good to take a trip North in Bertha (the motor home...) Dave On 24 June 2014 11:39, Martin Parker wrote: > Apologies all, please disregard that message, it was meant for Anders > only. I hit send in haste and failed to rip out my ethernet cable in time... > Best wishes > Martin~ > > On 24 Jun 2014, at 11:33, Martin Parker wrote: > > > Dear Anders, please forgive this unsolicited email, but I noticed your > message on Surround Sound and thought I’d offer a project for your > rig/concerts series this autumn, if you’re not already fully booked up. > > …. > > > On 24 Jun 2014, at 10:27, anders.vin...@bek.no wrote: > > > >> Hi list. > >> > >> FYI, there's a concert in Bergen next Thursday, at "Lydgalleriet", a > >> skewed shoe-box shaped room in the old-town of Bergen. > >> > >> The setup is a quasi 24ch hemisphere, 9+9+5+1, somewhat irregular to > >> accommodate the room-shape, mounting options and audience-seating. > >> > >> The concert on thursday will be the 3rd concert using the same rig in > >> this venue. The program this time consists of VBAP or Ambisonics-coded > >> pieces, composed by: > >> > >> Åke Parmerud > >> Ludger Brummer > >> Fernando Lopez-Lezcano > >> Natasha Barrett > >> Anders Vinjar > >> > >> More details about the music is available online: > >> > >> > https://underskog.no/kalender/102648_lydgalleriet-bek-presents-an-ambisonics-concert-feat-Åk/forestilling/168666 > >> > >> Various ambisonics decoders are used to either recode the VBAP pieces or > >> decode the native Ambisonics pieces. Of special interest this time is > >> testing optimized decoders calculated using Aaron Hellers Ambisonic > >> Decoder Toolbox, setting up config-files for ambdec or Faust-generated > >> decoders. > >> > >> We're aiming at setting up further concerts (4-5) during the autumn, and > >> will test and compare various approaches to decoder design for "the > >> Shoebox". > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Anders Vinjar > >> > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > Martin~ > > > > martin.par...@ed.ac.uk > > Programme Director, MSc Sound Design > > http://soundeducation.net > > > > Sound Lab Edinburgh: > > http://sites.ace.ed.ac.uk/sdresearch/ > > > > Tel. +44(0)131 650 2333 > > Mob. +44(0)7813 217 092 > > www.tinpark.com > > > > Postal address: > > MSc Sound Design > > c/o Dr. Martin Parker > > Edinburgh College of Art > > Alison House > > 12 Nicolson Square > > Edinburgh > > EH8 9DF, UK > > > > Google Map: > > http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=eh8+9df > > > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140624/095a7f69/attachment.html > > > > -- next part -- > > An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... > > Name: not available > > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140624/095a7f69/attachment.ksh > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > Martin~ > > martin.par...@ed.ac.uk > Programme Director, MSc Sound Design > http://soundeducation.net > > Sound Lab Edinburgh: > http://sites.ace.ed.ac.uk/sdresearch/ > > Tel. +44(0)131 650 2333 > Mob. +44(0)7813 217 092 > www.tinpark.com > > Postal address: > MSc Sound Design > c/o Dr. Martin Parker > Edinburgh College of Art > Alison House > 12 Nicolson Square > Edinburgh > EH8 9DF, UK > > Google Map: > http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=eh8+9df > > ------ next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140624/6e6aaf43/attachment.html > > > -- next part -- > An embedded and charset
Re: [Sursound] Home Dolby Atmos: Overhead audio without the overhead loudspeaker?
Ahh -of course! [?] On 24 June 2014 12:20, David Pickett wrote: > At 13:11 24-06-14, Dave Malham wrote: > > >Interesting...maybe the clue is in the text "it all comes down to > >understanding the physics of sound waves" together with the bit about " > new > >Dolby Atmos-enabled speakers that produce full, detailed overhead sound > >from speakers located where your conventional speakers are now" which > >suggests that they are bouncing stuff of the ceiling like the old and > >largely unlamented Bose stuff from a couple of decades ago. Or, they could > >be using HSS type systems to put virtual spots of sound up there or... > > ...or, by encouraging auto-suggestion in the listener -- something often > achieved by charging a lot for the product. Cf. The Emperor's New > Clothes... > > David > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140624/aa751552/attachment.html> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 96 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140624/aa751552/attachment.gif> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics rig - loudspeakers directivity
I'll just add my comments to the other excellent replies you've had. Experience of rather more years than I care to remember (of rigs in concert halls) leads me to suggest that amongst the best in terms of imaging (though, unfortunately not sound quality) are the Tannoy Dual Concentric designs. I think that there are two factors coming into play that result in this - one is the fact that all parts of the spectrum come from the same place due to the dual concentric design, the other is the relatively well controlled polar diagram. The unfortunately poor acoustic performance compared to modern designs like Genelecs is the only thing which stops me from going with them for everything. This sound quality seems to be related to the basic designs because when we had to audition some new ones a few years ago with the intention of using them to replace our flood damaged Tannoy 15" Monitor Golds which we had acquired in around 1970, we found the new ones sounded exactly like the four decade old ones - and bought Genelecs instead. Dave On 1 July 2014 15:28, Sero wrote: > Hello All, > > First, thank you very much for this amazing and very useful mailing list. > > I have a query that might look like it is very newbie but it has created a > big confusion in my head when someone asked that to me recently. > > What is the best loudspeaker directivity (polar pattern) for an ambisonics > listening rig? > > I am very confused about this because I cannot find any reference on this > on any pubblication or discussion on the net. > My feeling is that the larger directivity angle the best (up to > omnidirectional) but I am still not sure about this. > We have a lot of discussion on decoding coefficient, decoding directivities > (in phase, max Re etc) but not on the best solution for the transducer > directivity. > > I hope you can solve my uncertainty. > > Thanks > Serafino > > > *Serafino Di Rosario* > > *MIOA MAES CENG* > > *28A Haycroft Road* > > *SW2 5HZ London(UK)http://expochirp.tumblr.com/ > <http://expochirp.tumblr.com/>* > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140701/1f7cb2f9/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140704/a3f59ec8/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonics rig - loudspeakers directivity
We had a rig in our original Music Technology room consisting of four Quad electrostatics (the original ones!) suspended about a metre and a half below the sloping wooden ceiling so they were above head height but angled so they were directed at a central head height point. The array worked very well at reproducing 1st order pieces on the horizontal but generated spurious 'up' (and 'down') images which we traced to reflections of the radiation from the back of the speakers from ceiling nd walls. I suspect Richard Furse will remember the surprise at the way images of sheep bleeting in "Don Quixote" seemed to go up and down when they should just have been horizontal. Don Quixcote was one of the first, possibly the very first, fully digital Ambisonic compositions, thanks to Sile O"Modhrain's Atar ST based software, SurroundSound *. Dave *0'MODHRAIN, SILE 'Surroundsound, A B format Sounndfield processing program for the Composer's Desktop Project Soundfile system', ICMC Glasgow 1990 Proceedings, pp.121-123 On 2 July 2014 17:18, Martin Leese wrote: > Sero wrote: > ... > > What is the best loudspeaker directivity (polar pattern) for an > ambisonics > > listening rig? > > > > I am very confused about this because I cannot find any reference on this > > on any pubblication or discussion on the net. > > The only work I know on this is a study by > Dermot Furlong using a simulator. He > discussed his work on the sursound list in > 1996; I have it preserved at: > http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/mleese/dermot/ > > Dermot considered only first-order Ambisonics. > Here is an extract: > > "I am very well >aware that ideal point source loudspeakers are usually >specified for ambisonic reconstruction, but their >directivities are not generally commented on, so >perhaps this is of interest. And yes I know that most >loudspeakers have frequency dependent directivities - >I was trying to address the more basic question as >to what was the effect of loudspeaker polar response >on reconstruction. What I found was that for >reasonably dead listening rooms, loudspeaker >directivity was not a major issue - as long as omni >radiation patterns were not used! However, for more >live listening spaces the effect of loudspeaker >directivity did play a significant role. Curiously perhaps, >in cases of more 'dead' listening rooms, dipole >loudspeaker directivities were found to lead to >reconstruction of Listener Preference Indices which was >as good as that of more directional loudspeaker polar >patterns. Furthermore, as the room was made >more lively, the reconstruction with dipole loudspeakers >was consistently and significantly better than >was the case with more directional loudspeakers! This >was a surprise to me, and I did look at the >implementation very closely to check everything was >working properly... but this remains a consistent >observation... for all reconstruction formats!" > > Regards, > Martin > -- > Martin J Leese > E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org > Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140704/cd59314f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Calculating speaker placement (Marc Lavall?e)
om centre until it hits reaches a wall and then mark the > > speaker position? The problem I have is the room has a sloping > > ceiling, low at front and then high at the back. I would prefer to > > extend the angles and attach speakers to the boundaries rather than > > build a frame to hold them, as that would use up space and become > > an obstruction. It is also easier to attach to walls and ceiling. > > I was thinking of having the face of a Dodecahedron on the floor. > > This way there will be less obstruction in the room and I will > > only have to embed one speaker in the floor (i'm using both the > > vertices and faces of dodecahedron). > > Calculating the positions of the described layout, rotating it to get a > pentagonal face on the floor, is left as an exercice. ;-) > > But I would not recommend it, because it would mean more speakers on the > floor, with more possible obstructions from the listening chair and > listener's body. Worst: it would make the calculation and placement more > difficult and counter-intuitive. > > I would simply rotate the hexagon by 90 degrees (horizontally), in order > to get only two speakers on the floor and two on the ceiling (the blue > vertices), on the right and left sides of the listener. The speakers on > the side walls would on the pink vertices. The front and rear speakers > would be on the green vertices (leaving room for a possible > television/computer screen). The other speakers are on the cube formed > by the orange vertices, and could be installed further apart. Think of > the vertices as elastic sub-layouts; each of them is a valid > Ambisonics layout. That said, I don't know how much elasticity is > allowed by decoders. > > > Does anyone know of a simpler and maybe more accurate method? > > Another solution is to create an irregular layout with three > horizontal layouts (middle, upper, lower), with more resolution for the > middle layout. > > > Thanks > > > > Steve > > Good luck! > -- > Marc > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140713/e892d105/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] AES Spatial Audio Conference
Another one I shall not get to, I'm afraid. http://www.aes.org/conferences/55/ Best wishes to all who do... Dave -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140713/ac5817d2/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] Fireworkss...
filmed with a drone. Would have been even more amazing if it could have had an on-board B format mic... http://youtu.be/a9KZ3jgbbmI Dave Yeah, yeah, machine noise, wind noise... but one can dream. -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140713/14059893/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Calculating speaker placement
Hi Steve, Further to Marc's suggestion of laser pointers push through a dodecahedron. As the actual laser modules, rather than the assembled pointer, why not get a dodecahedron/icosahedron printed at Shapeways (or on your own printer if you've taken the plunge yet) with flat mounting points at all the vertices for laser modules to sit on. You could power them all up simultaneously for some fun (or final checks) but probably better from the pov of safety to just power them up as needed - don't want any headlines about audio guys getting fried by mystery laser devices! Dave On 16 July 2014 01:03, Steven Boardman wrote: > > Thank you everyone for your input on this. > > Just to clarify. > I don't need to find the angular positions of an existing speaker array. > Although it would be good to check after installation. > What I wanted was find the best position for each speaker, based on a > dodecahedron, in a room that won't be completely square. I also wanted to > maximise usable space while keeping the angles as true as possible. Which > meant being able to rotate the centre, and if necessary move the centre > point. The room will have a sloping ceiling and tapered sides, it also has > a large step at the back of the room. Sliding patio doors will be to the > front and side. Being able move and rotate a central point would allow the > best compromise. > I like the idea of of the laser pointers in a Dodecahedron Marc. It would > probably be possible to construct one that has a few, thus allowing quick > positioning in an ad hoc set up. I think I will use this idea for a more > mobile set up. > The good may, may be to do a 3D model after taking measurements of the > room, in CAD or such , and then rotate and move the shape inside. It would > allow me to find the best positions, and then marking them is easy. > Checking them afterwards isn't the problem. > > All the best > > Steve > > > > > > > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140716/0196ec49/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Noise reduction on Ambisonic files
Hi Garth, An interesting one. certainly got me thinking - trouble is, you don't really want thoughts but measurements. I suspect it depends a lot on what the internal mechanism of the noise reduction system is. Mostly, as far as I can ascertain, there's an analysis filter bank to split the sound into bands which are then subject to some sort of processing, then the bands are re-combined somehow either directly or by resynthesis to produce the output. The most critical thing will usually be the combination of the analysis and resynthesis steps. For instance, a well designed and well implemented FFT/iFFT pair should preserve the phase well. However, since you rarely have access to the internals of these things for analysis, measurement - or just listening with a good pair of ears - is the only way forward. I suspect that processing the B format after conversion from A would be the best - anyone else have any thoughts? Dave PS Of course, you could just always process the speaker feeds, for know, as that would be the least risky but most processing heavy option On 4 August 2014 20:23, Garth Paine wrote: > Hi everyone > > I have been doing a lot of ambient Ambisonic A format recordings (sps200 > into SD788) and as the environmental levels are so low the self noise of > the microphone becomes a bit of an issue on playback - I have RX for stereo > noise reduction but have not found a solution for multichannel that would > make me relaxed about maintaining the phase for decoding - I want to output > B-Format so decoding onto any speaker array rather than just output 5.1 and > use a surround noise cleaner. I would appreciate thoughts from the list - > I am guessing as the Soundfield mics are know for self noise that others > have faced and perhaps solved this issue already? thanks in advance > > ps. you can hear some of the recordings here > http://listen.ame.asu.edu/sonic_events.php > > Cheers, > Garth Paine > ga...@activatedspace.com > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140804/ca2c4e9f/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140805/d6cb70e1/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Michael Gerzon website
Here! Here! Dave On 9 August 2014 23:03, a...@andynic.eclipse.co.uk < a...@andynic.eclipse.co.uk> wrote: > Re. www.michaelgerzonphotos.org.uk > > Paul Hodges is to be congratulated for giving us this biography of Michael > Gerzon, an amazing glimpse of a genius and his work. It is really helpful > to have such a clear picture of the person and personality of someone so > important to the field of sound reproduction and ambisonics. Until I read > this he was just a name to me, although I realise that many on the list > must have known and even worked with him before his tragically early death. > > The descriptions of their struggles with tape recorders makes one realise > how fortunate we are to have small high quality digital recorders these > days! > > Andy > > --- > > > > --On 31 July 2014 10:17 -0400 Daniel Courville > > wrote: > > > >> Seems that www.michaelgerzonphotos.org.uk is offline. > > > > This website is now back on line, under my care, with the approval of > > Steve Thornton's family. > > > > I believe everything is as it was before; if you have any links to the > > site or to photos on it which are not working, please let me know and > > I'll fix it. > > > > Paul > > > > -- > > Paul Hodges > > > > -- > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 21:29:53 -0700 > > From: "Andrew Castiglione" > > To: "'Surround Sound discussion group'" > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] www.michaelgerzonphotos.org.uk offline? > > Message-ID: <003c01cfb38a$9268e380$b73aaa80$@com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Hi Paul, > > > > A BIG +1... ;^) > > > > Cheers!!! > > > > Andrew Castiglione > > > > ~ You're not a failure because you don't make it; you're a success > because > > you tried. > > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140809/92da5823/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140810/0b3637d3/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Splitting a 10.2 file
Some fine command line tools there, should be easy with them but Max would be ok if if you're allergic to the command line, tho' I would use Plogue Bidule as it's more straightforward for that sort of task. Alternatively, Audacity will split to separate channels (works up to at least 32 channels - just checked) but you might not wish to use that for mixer. Dave On 3 September 2014 04:55, Augustine Leudar wrote: > I guess I could just use max with an sfplay going into seperate record > channels - but I am trying to avoid it > > > On 3 September 2014 00:54, Augustine Leudar wrote: > > > Hi, > > Does anyone know any software that will allow me to split an interleaved > > 10.2 file into its separate channels for mixing. I've tried audition and > > Nuendo to no avail. I'm on a PC at the moment so soundhack is not an > option, > > best, > > Gus > > > > > > -- > 07812675974 > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140903/e65bbf6c/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140903/ed68068d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Help: Anyone know how to record elevation information when doing binaural recording?
Hi Yilin, I'm really not sure what's happening here because using in-ear phones like the CS-10EM and then listening back should provide a pretty accurate impression as the cues which you use on live sound are duplicated fairly exactly (except for head turning effects - search back in the archives for "green-lee head brace" to find a discussion of this). An experiment you should do is, with your head kept quite still, listen to a vertically moving sound live then listen to a recording of the same. In both cases have your eyes closed to remove any visual cues and have someone else move the sound source so that you are not getting physical cues. It's remarkable how often people complain about surround systems not working properly then when you play the same audio out of just one loudspeaker you find that they can't locate that either, because the sound itself is not well localisable. Dave On 4 September 2014 12:57, 霖の <951343...@qq.com> wrote: > Hi there, > As we understand, binaural recording can capture both vertical and > horizontal information for it using the head to encode the soundscape. And > someone also says that he listened an very interesting binaural recording > that you even can recognise the object is fallen from his head to feet. > However, when i'm using CS-10EM Binaural microphone for recording, there > are elevation information contains in the sound file. And I've checked the > sound file which someone recorded by using 'dummy head', no elevation > information as well. Anyone know what is the problem ? And anyone have > recorded the "elevation information" before and how did you made it? > > > Thank you very much, > Yilin > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140904/d66134fb/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/2de43037/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Splitting a 10.2 file
Nuendo doesn't surprise me, since none of the versions I've tried (right back to 1.7 (?)) handles multi channel files properly - at least, not what I would call "properly". Audacity does surprise me 'cos I've just thrown a 32 channel file at my copy on this Macbook and it was quite happy... Dave On 4 September 2014 07:13, Augustine Leudar wrote: > nope at least not nuendo 4 - when you selcet "split channels" it says it > cant do it - I know you can do it with 8 channel stuff. Audacity said the > same. I will tr some of the other solutions on here, thanks guys ;) > best, > Gus > > > On 3 September 2014 13:28, Lasse Munk wrote: > > > hi sorry i'm not infront of my nuendo computer at the moment, but it is > > possible in nuendo. You can even assign a shortcut for it. Try to search > > around for something like 'nuendo split multichannel to mono' > > > > > > 2014-09-03 17:20 GMT+02:00 Emanuele : > > > > > You could also try Wave Agent from Sound Devices, free of charge from > > > their website. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 03/09/2014 12:25, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote: > > > > > >> there is also (on Mac) Scott Wilson's de-interleaver. > > >> > > >> http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/facilities/beast/research/mulch.aspx > > >> > > >> p > > >> > > >> Le 3 sept. 2014 à 10:20, Dave Malham a > écrit : > > >> > > >> Some fine command line tools there, should be easy with them but > Max > > >>> would be ok if if you're allergic to the command line, tho' I would > use > > >>> Plogue Bidule as it's more straightforward for that sort of task. > > >>> Alternatively, Audacity will split to separate channels (works up to > at > > >>> least 32 channels - just checked) but you might not wish to use that > > for > > >>> mixer. > > >>> > > >>>Dave > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On 3 September 2014 04:55, Augustine Leudar > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I guess I could just use max with an sfplay going into seperate > record > > >>>> channels - but I am trying to avoid it > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On 3 September 2014 00:54, Augustine Leudar > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi, > > >>>>> Does anyone know any software that will allow me to split an > > >>>>> interleaved > > >>>>> 10.2 file into its separate channels for mixing. I've tried > audition > > >>>>> and > > >>>>> Nuendo to no avail. I'm on a PC at the moment so soundhack is not > an > > >>>>> > > >>>> option, > > >>>> > > >>>>> best, > > >>>>> Gus > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > > ___ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > // soundjuggling.com > > // 0045 26 84 44 41 > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140903/82edb204/attachment.html > > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > 07812675974 > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140904/f54bac89/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/30351f9e/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Splitting a 10.2 file
[?] On 5 September 2014 09:20, Michael Chapman wrote: > > [OT] > > As there has been some discussion of SoX as a command line file (channel) > splitter, I thought I'd also note: > > You can (as with many audio tools) create slow (e.g. 0.01 Hz) sine and > cosine waves as 'audio' files. > > What is rarer, is that you can multiply two 'audio' files, so you can > produce rotations on the command line ... > > Michael > > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/79d2375c/attachment.html> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 96 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/79d2375c/attachment.gif> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Splitting a 10.2 file
Hi Michael, My smiley was meant to indicate 'nice one' not 'yer wat??' now it's LOL. Dave On 5 September 2014 10:30, Michael Chapman wrote: > > [?] > > > > I did say 'OT' ... ;-)> > > But, if > sin.wav is a 0.01Hz sine wave, peaking at 1.0 > and > cos.wav is a 0.01Hz cosine wave peaking at 1.0, > > then > > newX.wav = X.wav x cos.wav - Y.wav x sin.wav > newY.wav = X.wav x sin.wav + Y.wav x cos.wav > > are interesting ... ? > > Cutting and pasting bits of various sin.wav's/cos.wav's/etc. into a > 'rotate.wav' > and > making files for higher orders are left as exercises for the reader ... > > Michael > > > > > On 5 September 2014 09:20, Michael Chapman wrote: > > > >> > >> [OT] > >> > >> As there has been some discussion of SoX as a command line file > >> (channel) > >> splitter, I thought I'd also note: > >> > >> You can (as with many audio tools) create slow (e.g. 0.01 Hz) sine and > >> cosine waves as 'audio' files. > >> > >> What is rarer, is that you can multiply two 'audio' files, so you can > >> produce rotations on the command line ... > >> > >> Michael > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > > > Dave Malham > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > > The University of York > > York YO10 5DD > > UK > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/5b9bb357/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Help: Anyone know how to record elevation information when doing binaural recording?
On 5 September 2014 17:12, Augustine Leudar wrote: > They must have just used horizontal information in the recording. > Reflections from the pinna provide filtering that give elevation > information. Perhaps they didnt have the microphone deep enough in their > ear canal ? > > Reflections off/ screening by the torso also give elevation cues - and they'd have to have the mics pretty far out to eliminate those ! :-)>> Dave > > On 5 September 2014 02:52, Dave Malham wrote: > > > Hi Yilin, > >I'm really not sure what's happening here because using in-ear phones > > like the CS-10EM and then listening back should provide a pretty accurate > > impression as the cues which you use on live sound are duplicated fairly > > exactly (except for head turning effects - search back in the archives > for > > "green-lee head brace" to find a discussion of this). An experiment you > > should do is, with your head kept quite still, listen to a vertically > > moving sound live then listen to a recording of the same. In both cases > > have your eyes closed to remove any visual cues and have someone else > move > > the sound source so that you are not getting physical cues. It's > > remarkable how often people complain about surround systems not working > > properly then when you play the same audio out of just one loudspeaker > you > > find that they can't locate that either, because the sound itself is not > > well localisable. > > > > Dave > > > > > > On 4 September 2014 12:57, 霖の <951343...@qq.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi there, > > > As we understand, binaural recording can capture both vertical and > > > horizontal information for it using the head to encode the soundscape. > > And > > > someone also says that he listened an very interesting binaural > recording > > > that you even can recognise the object is fallen from his head to feet. > > > However, when i'm using CS-10EM Binaural microphone for recording, > > there > > > are elevation information contains in the sound file. And I've checked > > the > > > sound file which someone recorded by using 'dummy head', no elevation > > > information as well. Anyone know what is the problem ? And anyone have > > > recorded the "elevation information" before and how did you made it? > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > Yilin > > > -- next part -- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140904/d66134fb/attachment.html > > > > > > > ___ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > > > Dave Malham > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > > The University of York > > York YO10 5DD > > UK > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/2de43037/attachment.html > > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > 07812675974 > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/9f195da1/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140905/08710348/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Help: Anyone know how to record elevation information when doing binaural recording?
And I well remember an auditory illusion demonstrated to me by Jeff Bloom and Mike Greenhough at University College, Cardiff in the positively palaeolithic days when I was just starting out in this field (around 1970- 1973) whereby a notch filter with a changing centre frequency in the mid to upper audio range applied to a white noise source would cause the apparent source position to move up and down. If I remember correctly this was also on the AES "Auditory Illusions" recording that was distributed withe the Journal a few years later and it was also covered in JAES Volume 25 Issue 9 pp. 560-565; September 1977 in the paper by Jeff Bloom "Creating Source Elevation Illusions by Spectral Manipulation" Dave On 8 September 2014 07:27, Bo-Erik Sandholm wrote: > > The cues might not be Head related, but they are definitely pinnae related > :-) > > A peak in the high midrange elevates the sound, The effect can also be > found as a "rainbow effect" when panning sound between > Left and right when using loadspeakers not compensated for one of the > stereo effects. > > Best Regards > Bo-Erik > > -Original Message- > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of dw > Sent: den 8 september 2014 00:09 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Help: Anyone know how to record elevation > information when doing binaural recording? > > At the risk of upsetting just about everyone:-) here is my personal > opinion: > The science of binaural is a wonderful example of bending observations to > fit the theory. > I'm not entirely convinced there are any significant _head-related_ > elevation cues. > There are front/back cues IMO, but they are largely absent with most > dummy-heads. > You would be hard pressed to find any direction dependent spectral cues at > all in my latest dummy-head recordings (that aren't there by accident). > Koss KCS75 probably the cheapest and best for binaural that I have tried > so far with my recordings, Sennheiser hd25 I II better for bass, or if you > need isolation, 10x price.. > http://www.freesound.org/people/dwareing/ > > > > > On 04/09/2014 12:57, 霖の wrote: > > Hi there, > > As we understand, binaural recording can capture both vertical and > > horizontal information for it using the head to encode the soundscape. > > And someone also says that he listened an very interesting binaural > > recording that you even can recognise the object is fallen from his > > head to feet. However, when i'm using CS-10EM Binaural microphone > > for recording, there are elevation information contains in the sound > > file. And I've checked the sound file which someone recorded by using > > 'dummy head', no elevation information as well. Anyone know what is > > the problem ? And anyone have recorded the "elevation information" > > before and how did you made it? > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > Yilin > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > > scrubbed... > > URL:<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20 > > 140904/d66134fb/attachment.html> > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140908/7de48b51/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Help: Anyone know how to record elevation information when doing binaural recording?
Hi Peter, Sorry, I can't check at the moment - I gifted my collection of AES Journals (back to 1975 and a few before that) to the Uni when I retired and I don't have a current subscription to the AES library (only tend to be prepared for one when I'm doing research) AND the old memory cells seem to have lost the info :-( Dave On 8 September 2014 12:00, Peter Lennox wrote: > Is this the same as Blauert's "critical bands"? > > Dr. Peter Lennox > > School of Technology, > Faculty of Arts, Design and Technology > University of Derby, UK > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > t: 01332 593155 > > -Original Message- > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave > Malham > Sent: 08 September 2014 10:12 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Help: Anyone know how to record elevation > information when doing binaural recording? > > And I well remember an auditory illusion demonstrated to me by Jeff Bloom > and Mike Greenhough at University College, Cardiff in the positively > palaeolithic days when I was just starting out in this field (around 1970- > 1973) whereby a notch filter with a changing centre frequency in the mid > to upper audio range applied to a white noise source would cause the > apparent source position to move up and down. If I remember correctly this > was also on the AES "Auditory Illusions" recording that was distributed > withe the Journal a few years later and it was also covered in JAES Volume > 25 Issue 9 pp. 560-565; September 1977 in the paper by Jeff Bloom "Creating > Source Elevation Illusions by Spectral Manipulation" > > Dave > > > On 8 September 2014 07:27, Bo-Erik Sandholm > > wrote: > > > > > The cues might not be Head related, but they are definitely pinnae > > related > > :-) > > > > A peak in the high midrange elevates the sound, The effect can also be > > found as a "rainbow effect" when panning sound between Left and right > > when using loadspeakers not compensated for one of the stereo effects. > > > > Best Regards > > Bo-Erik > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of dw > > Sent: den 8 september 2014 00:09 > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Help: Anyone know how to record elevation > > information when doing binaural recording? > > > > At the risk of upsetting just about everyone:-) here is my personal > > opinion: > > The science of binaural is a wonderful example of bending observations > > to fit the theory. > > I'm not entirely convinced there are any significant _head-related_ > > elevation cues. > > There are front/back cues IMO, but they are largely absent with most > > dummy-heads. > > You would be hard pressed to find any direction dependent spectral > > cues at all in my latest dummy-head recordings (that aren't there by > accident). > > Koss KCS75 probably the cheapest and best for binaural that I have > > tried so far with my recordings, Sennheiser hd25 I II better for bass, > > or if you need isolation, 10x price.. > > http://www.freesound.org/people/dwareing/ > > > > > > > > > > On 04/09/2014 12:57, 霖の wrote: > > > Hi there, > > > As we understand, binaural recording can capture both vertical and > > > horizontal information for it using the head to encode the soundscape. > > > And someone also says that he listened an very interesting binaural > > > recording that you even can recognise the object is fallen from his > > > head to feet. However, when i'm using CS-10EM Binaural microphone > > > for recording, there are elevation information contains in the > > > sound file. And I've checked the sound file which someone recorded > > > by using 'dummy head', no elevation information as well. Anyone know > > > what is the problem ? And anyone have recorded the "elevation > information" > > > before and how did you made it? > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > Yilin > > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > > > scrubbed... > > > URL:<https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/ > > > 20 > > > 140904/d66134fb/attachment.html> > > > ___ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] Auro 3-d and Isosono
Anyone noticed the fact that Barco Auro 3-d has purchased Isosono. Could be interesting. http://www.barco.com/en/News/Press-releases/Barco-gains-the-team-and-expertise-from-IOSONO-GmbH-to-f. .. Dave -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140928/21bdb875/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Auro 3-d and Isosono
On 28 September 2014 18:01, Stefan Schreiber wrote: > Dave Malham wrote: > > Anyone noticed the fact that Barco Auro 3-d has purchased Isosono. Could >> be >> interesting. >> >> http://www.barco.com/en/News/Press-releases/Barco-gains- >> the-team-and-expertise-from-IOSONO-GmbH-to-f. >> .. >> >>Dave >> >> >> > > I didn't notice yet, and many thanks! > > Here a complete link (link above is broken): > > > http://www.barco.com/en/News/Press-releases/Barco-gains-the-team-and-expertise-from-IOSONO-GmbH-to-further-enhance-the-immersive-sound-experienc.asp > <http://www.barco.com/en/News/Press-releases/Barco-gains-the-team-and-expertise-from-IOSONO-GmbH-to-further-enhance-the-immersive-sound-experienc.aspx> Didn't notice - thanks! > > > Best, > > Stefan > > P.S.: Another question would be if 22.2 would perform better than Auro-3D > in listening tests. (In practical terms, 22.2 recording would be a lot more > difficult to record. See Theile-Wittek paper...) > > P.S. 2: Dave, it is Auro-3D or Auro 3D... Don't want to seem too pedantic, > but this is the way they spell it. ;-) > > > Cor ! Me, out pedanted! I am humbled! :-) Dave > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20140928/007544af/attachment.html> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140929/a2538d44/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Cube reverberation attenuation with foam
Foam will help but you should also include some diffusion maybe some RPG (Random Phase Grating), maybe just some additional furniture - we once tamed a terrible room enough to put on a concert (Assembly Room in York) by upending a bunch of tables and placing them outside the array in a somewhat irregular pattern - maybe even some of the very crude, old fashioned hemispherical diffusers made with "bendy" mdf would help. Also, try moving the array off centre in the room or changing its orientation. Dave P.S. Try looking at these pages for more on diffusion;- http://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/studio-building-acoustic-treatment/diy-diffusors-do-they-exist-207974/ http://arqen.com/sound-diffusers/ On 21 October 2014 06:09, Tommaso Perego wrote: > Hello Everyone > I was wondering if you could please help me solve the following problem. > > I have encountered reverberation issues with an Ambisonic installation, > of dimension 5x5x2.5 meters (a squashed cube, so to speak). > > I have noticed that reverberation is due to the proximity to the > surrounding walls (7x12x6), causing > imperfect appreciation of the spatial sound designs when heard in the > middle of the cube. > Assuming that this is the correct understanding of the problem I was > wondering if: > > - surrounding the cube with the following foam material > > http://www.anyfoam.co.uk/sheet-foam.php < > http://www.anyfoam.co.uk/sheet-foam.php> (the acoustic foam) > > would significantly reduce reverberation effect to better the definition > inside the cube? > > - where exactly would be best to put the foam? Would just the sides > (excluding floor and ceiling) of the cube be enough ? > > - should reducing the overall sound power improve the situation? > > > Looking forward to hear your opinion, I would greatly appreciate your help > Thank you > > kind Regards > > Tommaso > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141021/7de23efb/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141021/3568a8ff/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Ambisonic Cube reverberation attenuation with foam
Hi Eric, You confused a poor old man there...I was wondering "Why does he need the blankets to move around?? Surely they're just as efficient when they are still?" Then I thought "Duh..." Trouble is, we haven't moved for four decades and back then we just chucked some straw into the removal guy's cart to protect the furniture :-) Difficult to hang straw up with string...but use straw bail construction for your listening room, especially if they are staggered and/or angled to add some diffusion and you might well get pretty well dead acoustics - and good eco-credentials as well. Dave On 21 October 2014 19:01, Eric Benjamin wrote: > How have you determined that reflections from the room walls are the > source of the perceptual problems? > > To test for that, it might be best to try a temporary fix first. I have > successfully used moving blankets to prototype room treatment. If moving > blankets are installed away from the actual walls then they are extremely > efficient absorbers, even down to low frequencies. This can be done using > hooks and twine and the amount of absorption can make the room almost > anechoic. Perhaps they can be attached to the outside of your rig. > > Moving blankets can typically be purchased for $10 each or about $80 for a > dozen. > > > On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 1:52 AM, Bo-Erik Sandholm < > bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > > Covering the corners - floor and walls + roof and walls with something > diffusing or absorbing is probably the most important, a corner is a > perfect for reflecting incoming sound back in source direction. > After the corners come the other 90 degrees angles bit hey are not as > critical, but a soft longhaired carpet along the walls or on the walls up > to around a meter height is good. > > Best Regards Bo-Erik > > -Original Message- > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > Tommaso Perego > Sent: den 21 oktober 2014 07:10 > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > Subject: [Sursound] Ambisonic Cube reverberation attenuation with foam > > Hello Everyone > I was wondering if you could please help me solve the following problem. > > I have encountered reverberation issues with an Ambisonic installation, of > dimension 5x5x2.5 meters (a squashed cube, so to speak). > > I have noticed that reverberation is due to the proximity to the > surrounding walls (7x12x6), causing imperfect appreciation of the spatial > sound designs when heard in the middle of the cube. > Assuming that this is the correct understanding of the problem I was > wondering if: > > - surrounding the cube with the following foam material > > http://www.anyfoam.co.uk/sheet-foam.php < > http://www.anyfoam.co.uk/sheet-foam.php> (the acoustic foam) > > would significantly reduce reverberation effect to better the definition > inside the cube? > > - where exactly would be best to put the foam? Would just the sides > (excluding floor and ceiling) of the cube be enough ? > > - should reducing the overall sound power improve the situation? > > > Looking forward to hear your opinion, I would greatly appreciate your help > Thank you > > kind Regards > > Tommaso > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141021/7de23efb/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141021/17073ca2/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141022/68cb9ab1/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] another 100k for "3D"
Hmmm - no sign of a Greene-Lee headbrace and they don't seem to be implementing headtracking Dave On 24 October 2014 00:01, michael noble wrote: > hi folks > > Just saw this today. > > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/124900576/hooke-wireless-3d-audio-headphones > > Can't help but feel there might be some disappointed backers if final > product ever ships... > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141024/0c512ff4/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141024/c0f107e7/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] The "BUCKET LIST" for Ambisonics? - or only how to proceed with Head tracked Binaural listening directivity control ?
Hi there, It depends what you want to do. If you can limit yourself to fairly rapidly moving sources, then you can get some way towards this even in FOA especially if the replay venue is reasonably dry and the acoustic of the soundscape is somewhat reverberant. With a bit of doppler, the appropriate variance of direct to reverberant field and patterns of early reflections, it will be difficult for the brains of the listeners not to perceive the source as moving past their heads (if that's the path you've set). However, the slower the rate of travel, the more likely it is to fall apart and revert to the source appearing to come from no closer than the reverb radius (usually the surface of the speaker array). If you want to go further, you need to use NFCHOA, (see Jerome Daniel's work). Dave On 5 November 2014 00:21, Augustine Leudar wrote: > I'm wondering - what is other artists experiences of using ambisonics to > get sounds to appear "close" to the listener - ie proximity or in WFS > focussed sources ? > > On 4 November 2014 19:02, Paul Doornbusch > wrote: > > > Hi Bo-Erik, > > > > Yup... I've been using ambisonics in music, VR and installations since > > 2000. Probably the most successful piece is Place-Hampi from 2006, > > ambisonic sound gets a good write-up in it, there's a permanent > > installation now in India, it's toured the world a bit (Lille, Karlsruhe, > > Berlin, Singapore, Melbourne, Hong Kong, Bejing etc) and it's still > going. > > The ambisonic sound provides all continuity for the images and the > > spatialisation and its accuracy are key elements that make the piece > work. > > > > In my experience (I may have a paper about this from a decade ago), > > ambisonic sound provides a much better sense of immersion and > > verisimilitude than stereo sound or panned sound even over the same > speaker > > array. It's anecdotal, but I did test this in the early 2000s. > > > > Cheers, > > Paul > > > > On 4 Nov 2014, at 8:07 PM, Bo-Erik Sandholm < > bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.com> > > wrote: > > > > > That is why I for example want to test if a spherical still panorama I > > have taken with a mobile phone camera combined with a foa Ambisonic > > recording is better than just a fixed UHJ stereo sound. That is when > played > > back with a head tracker controlling the binaural decoding direction and > > the panorama view direction. > > > > -- next part -- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: signature.asc > > Type: application/pgp-signature > > Size: 841 bytes > > Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail > > URL: < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141105/7620a089/attachment.asc > > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > www.augustineleudar.com > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141104/2b9879de/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141105/096654e2/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Spatial Audio positions at Qualcomm in San Diego, California
Looks like Qualcomm has got really serious about 3D audio and HOA/WFS in particular which is really exciting news - they are a major player! if I was younger I'd be very seriously considering applying, even tho' it's Stateside based and not in the UK. Dave On 10 November 2014 19:56, Sen, Deep wrote: > Dear list members, > > Qualcomm is soliciting applications for multiple positions, at all levels, > from individuals with expertise in the following fields: > Spatial Audio (Spherical Harmonics, Wave Field Synthesis, etc), > Audio Digital Signal Processing, > Auditory Perception (especially as related to spatial audio), > Audio Coding (compression). > Soundfield acquisition using microphone arrays. > > Further information and information on how to apply may be found at the > following website: > > https://jobs.qualcomm.com/public/jobDetails.xhtml?requisitionId=1930477 > > Best, > __ > Deep Sen > Senior Director, > Multimedia R&D, > Qualcomm, Inc. > San Diego, California, USA. > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141110/702d2cc6/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2014/ee8dd04c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?
Have I really heard sounds from below me?? Yes, all the time - every time I walk around (other than a really, really, soft carpet), in stair wells let alon leaning out of windows, in cable cars, in microlights, hot air balloons, mesh floored lighting bridges - I could go on and on (and I frequently do :-). Mind you, it's not as robust as horizontal imaging - witness what happens if you play recordings of birds flying below you (top of Bempton Cliffs in Yorkshire), it's impossible - or very nearly so - to hear them as anything but above. Dave On 26 November 2014 at 03:22, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > On 2014-11-21, dw wrote: > > The state-of-the-art finds it very difficult to render sounds below the >> listener. >> > > True. But then, at the same time, have you ever truly heard sounds from > right below yourself? Does even the human auditory system *really* know > what it means to "hear something from below"? > > Think about it or awhile. In the psychoacoustic sense there actually might > not even *be* such a thing "due below". > -- > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front > +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141126/1321a98d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Oculus Rift Visual Demo + Ambisonic Audio Available?
On 26 November 2014 at 12:31, Eero Aro wrote: > Hi > > > Rotating the soundfield "onto it's side" (= rotating laterally -90 > degrees) makes the > listener totally whacked up, as an aeroplane just simply doesn't pass you > by from > your _left_ side. :-) > Unless, of course, you are a flight deck marshal on an aircraft carrier (the person with the two paddles) :-) Dave > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141126/1da2ab8b/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] AES London Lecture
Now that's annoying - I'm actually in London the Tuesday before that AND the Tuesday the week after, but not that Tuesday. Arghh. Dave On 30 December 2014 at 23:08, John Leonard wrote: > This looks interesting: > > Upcoming Lectures > > London: Tuesday 13th January > > Perceptual Sound Field Reconstruction and Coherent Synthesis > > Zoran Cvetkovic, Professor of Signal Processing at King’s College London > > Imagine a group of fans cheering their team at the Olympics from a local > pub, who want to feel transposed to the arena by experiencing a faithful > and convincing auditory perspective of the scene they see on the screen. > They hear the punch of the player kicking the ball and are immersed in the > atmosphere as if they are watching from the sideline. Alternatively, > imagine a small group of classical music aficionados following a broadcast > from the Royal Opera at home, who want to have the experience of listening > to it from best seats at the opera house. Imagine having finally a surround > sound system with room simulators that actually sound like the spaces they > are supposed to synthesise, or watching a 3D nature film in a home theatre > where the sound closely follows the movements one sees on the screen. > Imagine also a video game capable of providing a convincing dynamic > auditory perspective that tracks a moving game player and responds to his > actions, with virtual objects moving and acoustic environments changing. > Finally, place all this in the context of visual technology that is moving > firmly in the direction of ”3D” capture and rendering, where enhanced > spatial accuracy and detail are key features. In this talk we will present > a technology that enables all these spatial sound applications using > low-count multichannel systems. > This month's lecture is being held at King’s College London, Nash Lecture > Theatre, K2.31, Strand, London, WC2R 2LS. 6:30pm for 7:00pm start. > > I'll be there if I can. > > John > > > > Please note new email address & direct line phone number > email: j...@johnleonard.uk > phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942 > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141231/8320ab6e/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] AES London Lecture
I wonder how closely this is related to the paper he was one of the authors of at the 2010 Ambisonics Symposium? Anyone have it handy? Dave On 31 December 2014 at 08:47, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote: > It does indeed - especially if it delivers for real ;-) > > > > > > Le 31 déc. 2014 à 00:08, John Leonard a écrit : > > > This looks interesting: > > > > Upcoming Lectures > > > > London: Tuesday 13th January > > > > Perceptual Sound Field Reconstruction and Coherent Synthesis > > > > Zoran Cvetkovic, Professor of Signal Processing at King’s College London > > > > Imagine a group of fans cheering their team at the Olympics from a local > pub, who want to feel transposed to the arena by experiencing a faithful > and convincing auditory perspective of the scene they see on the screen. > They hear the punch of the player kicking the ball and are immersed in the > atmosphere as if they are watching from the sideline. Alternatively, > imagine a small group of classical music aficionados following a broadcast > from the Royal Opera at home, who want to have the experience of listening > to it from best seats at the opera house. Imagine having finally a surround > sound system with room simulators that actually sound like the spaces they > are supposed to synthesise, or watching a 3D nature film in a home theatre > where the sound closely follows the movements one sees on the screen. > Imagine also a video game capable of providing a convincing dynamic > auditory perspective that tracks a moving game player and responds to his > actions, with virtual objects moving and acoustic environments changing. > Finally, place all this in the context of visual technology that is moving > firmly in the direction of ”3D” capture and rendering, where enhanced > spatial accuracy and detail are key features. In this talk we will present > a technology that enables all these spatial sound applications using > low-count multichannel systems. > > This month's lecture is being held at King’s College London, Nash > Lecture Theatre, K2.31, Strand, London, WC2R 2LS. 6:30pm for 7:00pm start. > > > > I'll be there if I can. > > > > John > > > > > > > > Please note new email address & direct line phone number > > email: j...@johnleonard.uk > > phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942 > > > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20141231/b1b3c71a/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] ENVELOP - 3D Sound, on Kickstarter.com
Cor - that's a right rogue's gallery. Good luck - and may the gods of Ambisonics go with you! :-) Sent from a rainy York.. Dave On 11 April 2015 at 07:04, Eric Benjamin wrote: > > Martin > > There is a bit more information about the project at the envelop web site: > > http://envelop.us/ > > Several of the proponents are members of Surround. Perhaps one of them > would like to elaborate. > > Eric > > -- > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 9:46 PM PDT Martin Leese wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >I fell across this Kickstarter campaign. I have > >no connection, blah, blah, blah. Does anybody > >know more? Below are some extracts. > > > >Regards, > >Martin > >-- > >Martin J Leese > >E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org > >Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ > > > > > >ENVELOP - 3D Sound > > > >https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/envelop/envelop-3d-sound > > > >$27,333 goal > > > >ENVELOP is a 3D sound platform that introduces an open source software > >toolkit and educational initiatives to help any artist align their > >creativity with new technologies for creating music in three > >dimensions. > > > >We are creating a next-generation 28.4 speaker audiovisual system that > >features innovative technology to move sound in space around the > >audience from any direction. ENVELOP is new environment for artists to > >create and perform music in 3D surround sound. > > > >The foundation of ENVELOP’s technology is Ambisonics > > > >Not-for-profit and Open Source > > > >Developers: Roddy Lindsay, Elan Rosenman, Christopher Willits, and Andrew > Kimpel > >___ > >Sursound mailing list > >Sursound@music.vt.edu > >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150411/cafcb9bf/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning
Hi Ricky, Boids has been around for a long time and I'm certain it's been used quite a few times in electroacoustic compositions - in fact, I seem to remember one of our students on the Music Technology course here at York doing so. Trouble is, I'm darned if I can remember his or her name (which will be no surprise to anyone who's been on that course - my apologies to the person concerned if they are reading this :-). Your best bet would be to look through the Proceedings of the ICMC from around '87 and maybe the Computer Music Journal. I'm not sure what you mean by "...difficult to scale in terms of distance". Are you referring to the mapping of the notional distances in the boid simulation to the things which we use perceptually to deduce the distance of a sound source? That's opening up an interesting can of worms! Do a search in the archives for "giant geese" to see the fun we had talking (arguing) about it last time. A lot will depend on wether the sound sources are "familiar" or not - we can easily tell that a thunder storm (or a jet) is distant or nearby because we are familiar with them as "perceptual objects" and can construe them within the acoustic space we are listening in but with constructed sounds that we are not familiar with we are stuck with "immediate" (and to some extent, unreliable) cues like direct to reverberant ratios, the pattern of early reflections, HF rolloff and maybe distortion (loud sounds have distortion which increases with distance). If he's currently on the list, I suspect Peter Lennox will jump in here and tell me I've got it all wrong :-). Anyway, I'm sure much/all of this is old news for you but I had to have something to occupy a Sunday morning whilst waiting for the croissants to warm up All the best Dave On 11 April 2015 at 22:05, Ricky Graham wrote: > Hello, > > I use the boids algorithm to pan materials around a space. The Cartesian > output number range per boid in space is difficult to scale in terms of > distance; azimuth seems to be fairly intuitive and sounds correct to my > ears. > > Do any of you have any similar experiences / advice on how best to > approach distance when using boids? > > Best, > > Ricky > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150411/8432ee5f/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150412/d1cd0cdb/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning
Good grief, ambilib~! think last time I even thought about that was when you asked me about it about 4 or 5 years ago! I think what I'd try is to send the cartesian to polar output to the azimuth (phase) and distance (amplitude) parameters (with any appropriate scaling to deal with differences in units). Then I'd play a single sound through, one that localises well (check by playing through a single loudspeaker in a non-dry environment and moving around to check) and position it somewhere about "half" distance. At this stage you wouldn't need droid, right? Feed the direct sound (pre-panner) into a reverb and mix the output of that with the output of the panner. Adjust the level of the reverb until the apparent distance of the sound source sounds about right. Now try changing the distance in the panner and see if it still sounds right. That will give you a start, especially with properly scaled and positioned early reflections added as well, but it will almost certainly need tweaking to get it to work as you want it when you add extra sources and activate droid. Adding some sort of background soundscape can also often help. Dave On 12 April 2015 at 17:35, Ricky Graham wrote: > Hi Dave, > > I guess I’d like to hear how others have mapped the output from boids to > whatever ambisonic panner they’re using. I will have a look for the ICMC > paper. > > While I have your attention, I can use ambilib~ as an example. Would you > simply map the cartesian to polar output to the azimuth (phase) and > distance (amplitude) parameters of your externals? > > I hope you enjoyed the croissants. > > Ricky > > > On Apr 12, 2015, at 12:00 PM, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote: > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:12:32 +0100 > > From: Dave Malham mailto:dave.mal...@york.ac.uk > >> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu>> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning > > Message-ID: > >hsw9tpab2umgf...@mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAPw+1zTGodgrsoYtKWhNe > =DZVwMy8t1tV=hsw9tpab2umgf...@mail.gmail.com>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Hi Ricky, > >Boids has been around for a long time and I'm certain it's been > > used quite a few times in electroacoustic compositions - in fact, I seem > to > > remember one of our students on the Music Technology course here at York > > doing so. Trouble is, I'm darned if I can remember his or her name (which > > will be no surprise to anyone who's been on that course - my apologies to > > the person concerned if they are reading this :-). Your best bet would > be > > to look through the Proceedings of the ICMC from around '87 and maybe the > > Computer Music Journal. > > > > I'm not sure what you mean by "...difficult to scale in terms of > > distance". Are you referring to the mapping of the notional distances in > > the boid simulation to the things which we use perceptually to deduce the > > distance of a sound source? That's opening up an interesting can of > worms! > > Do a search in the archives for "giant geese" to see the fun we had > talking > > (arguing) about it last time. A lot will depend on wether the sound > sources > > are "familiar" or not - we can easily tell that a thunder storm (or a > jet) is > > distant or nearby because we are familiar with them as "perceptual > objects" > > and can construe them within the acoustic space we are listening in but > > with constructed sounds that we are not familiar with we are stuck with > > "immediate" (and to some extent, unreliable) cues like direct to > > reverberant ratios, the pattern of early reflections, HF rolloff and > maybe > > distortion (loud sounds have distortion which increases with distance). > If > > he's currently on the list, I suspect Peter Lennox will jump in here and > > tell me I've got it all wrong :-). > > > > Anyway, I'm sure much/all of this is old news for you but I had to > have > > something to occupy a Sunday morning whilst waiting for the croissants to > > warm up > > > >All the best > > > > Dave > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150412/08ac65b7/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/
Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning
Thanks, Trond, I really, really should have remember the ICST stuff myself! Dave On 12 April 2015 at 20:44, Trond Lossius wrote: > Hi, > > boids and flocking algorithms have been used in quite a few works > developed at ICST in Zurich. I have the impression that often this has been > done by implementing boids/flocking in OpenFramework, and sending OSC > messages to Max, where ambisonic processing is done using the ICST > ambisonic externals. You’ll find several publications on the topic here: > > https://www.zhdk.ch/index.php?id=icst_publications_main > > The ICST externals for Max using gain adjustments to emulate distance. > When sources are located within the unit circle, the order of the encoding > will be modified so that a source located at the very center will be omni > only. > > Although not ambisonic, I would also look towards the work on > spatialisation by John Chowning, and how he modifies gain, reverb and > dry/wet balance to emulate distance. This is discussed in details e.g. in > the book on computer music by Dodge and Jerse. A recent piece by John > Chowning was presented in an outdoor setting during ICMS / SMC 2014 in > Athens, and I have to say that I was deeply impressed with how he managed > to create illusions of sound objects moving in space using only four > speakers. > > Ircam Spat is a third option to check out. Spat can work with ambisonic as > well as other spatialisation algorithms, and also emulates air filtering > and reverb. > > > Best, > Trond > > > > > > On 12 Apr 2015, at 18:35, Ricky Graham wrote: > > > > Hi Dave, > > > > I guess I’d like to hear how others have mapped the output from boids to > whatever ambisonic panner they’re using. I will have a look for the ICMC > paper. > > > > While I have your attention, I can use ambilib~ as an example. Would you > simply map the cartesian to polar output to the azimuth (phase) and > distance (amplitude) parameters of your externals? > > > > I hope you enjoyed the croissants. > > > > Ricky > > > >> On Apr 12, 2015, at 12:00 PM, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote: > >> > >> Message: 4 > >> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2015 09:12:32 +0100 > >> From: Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk>> > >> To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu>> > >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning > >> Message-ID: > >> hsw9tpab2umgf...@mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAPw+1zTGodgrsoYtKWhNe > =DZVwMy8t1tV=hsw9tpab2umgf...@mail.gmail.com>> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >> > >> Hi Ricky, > >> Boids has been around for a long time and I'm certain it's been > >> used quite a few times in electroacoustic compositions - in fact, I > seem to > >> remember one of our students on the Music Technology course here at York > >> doing so. Trouble is, I'm darned if I can remember his or her name > (which > >> will be no surprise to anyone who's been on that course - my apologies > to > >> the person concerned if they are reading this :-). Your best bet would > be > >> to look through the Proceedings of the ICMC from around '87 and maybe > the > >> Computer Music Journal. > >> > >> I'm not sure what you mean by "...difficult to scale in terms of > >> distance". Are you referring to the mapping of the notional distances > in > >> the boid simulation to the things which we use perceptually to deduce > the > >> distance of a sound source? That's opening up an interesting can of > worms! > >> Do a search in the archives for "giant geese" to see the fun we had > talking > >> (arguing) about it last time. A lot will depend on wether the sound > sources > >> are "familiar" or not - we can easily tell that a thunder storm (or a > jet) is > >> distant or nearby because we are familiar with them as "perceptual > objects" > >> and can construe them within the acoustic space we are listening in but > >> with constructed sounds that we are not familiar with we are stuck with > >> "immediate" (and to some extent, unreliable) cues like direct to > >> reverberant ratios, the pattern of early reflections, HF rolloff and > maybe > >> distortion (loud sounds have distortion which increases with distance). > If > >> he's currently on the list, I suspect Peter Lennox will jump in here and > >> tell me I've got it
Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning
Ah yes, the proverbial point source. Never heard one of them, never want to - a true point source would imply an infinite power density to output anything which would, in turn, imply infinite energy density which would imply infinite density and .. oh dear, we seem to have a black hole and all we were trying to do was play a goose recording :-) Dave On 13 April 2015 at 12:59, Peter Lennox wrote: > The distance (technically, "range" - from perceiver to source- -) problem > encountered in "giant geese: (John Leonard's ambisonic recording of > close-miked geese played over a large, <30m radius rig) was the disparity > in subtended angles produced by the decorrelation across any image with > non-neglible ASW (apparent source width) in combination with a perceptiual > constancy for speaker distance in any non-anechoic performance site. > As Dave says, we had fun with several examples of 'blown up' images - a > giant toilet (with high-flush cistern), a VW (mine) that approached > plausibly enough, then as it traversed the speaker array - whose radius was > significantly greater than the mic-source distance - the VW stretched and > became huge, about 15metres long and high as a house - then it departed, > plausibly enough. > > My students have encountered the same when trying to reproduce a > "Mousetrap" game (a thing with rolling marbles that travel along little > troughs, drop to the next level and so on) in an auditorium - change the > display radius, and the sound of the speed of rolling and the change of > angle seriously don't match. > > So, one can't just treat things as 'point sources' (what is one of those, > exactly?) and movement has to take into account the display radius. > > Still, a giant toilet flushing was fun to behold. > > regards > ppl > Dr. Peter Lennox > Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy > Senior Lecturer in Perception > College of Arts > University of Derby > > Tel: 01332 593155 > > From: Sursound [sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Malham [ > dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] > Sent: 12 April 2015 09:12 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning > > Hi Ricky, > Boids has been around for a long time and I'm certain it's been > used quite a few times in electroacoustic compositions - in fact, I seem to > remember one of our students on the Music Technology course here at York > doing so. Trouble is, I'm darned if I can remember his or her name (which > will be no surprise to anyone who's been on that course - my apologies to > the person concerned if they are reading this :-). Your best bet would be > to look through the Proceedings of the ICMC from around '87 and maybe the > Computer Music Journal. > > I'm not sure what you mean by "...difficult to scale in terms of > distance". Are you referring to the mapping of the notional distances in > the boid simulation to the things which we use perceptually to deduce the > distance of a sound source? That's opening up an interesting can of worms! > Do a search in the archives for "giant geese" to see the fun we had talking > (arguing) about it last time. A lot will depend on wether the sound sources > are "familiar" or not - we can easily tell that a thunder storm (or a jet) > is > distant or nearby because we are familiar with them as "perceptual objects" > and can construe them within the acoustic space we are listening in but > with constructed sounds that we are not familiar with we are stuck with > "immediate" (and to some extent, unreliable) cues like direct to > reverberant ratios, the pattern of early reflections, HF rolloff and maybe > distortion (loud sounds have distortion which increases with distance). If > he's currently on the list, I suspect Peter Lennox will jump in here and > tell me I've got it all wrong :-). > >Anyway, I'm sure much/all of this is old news for you but I had to have > something to occupy a Sunday morning whilst waiting for the croissants to > warm up > > All the best > > Dave > > > > On 11 April 2015 at 22:05, Ricky Graham wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I use the boids algorithm to pan materials around a space. The Cartesian > > output number range per boid in space is difficult to scale in terms of > > distance; azimuth seems to be fairly intuitive and sounds correct to my > > ears. > > > > Do any of you have any similar experiences / advice on how best to > > approach distance when using boids? > >
Re: [Sursound] Re. Boids for Ambisonic Panning
If there is a choice to be made, plausibility is definitely more important than realism - if nothing else, because plausibility is almost always (with due care and attention) achievable whereas realism almost never, or never, is. Dave On 13 April 2015 at 18:15, James Anthony Enda Bates wrote: > I think most of the important points have been covered already but in > general I would say that when simulating distance effects, plausibility is > usually more relevant than absolute realism. > Also, the more cues, the better! > enda > > -- www.endabates.net > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150413/7dc6d25f/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150414/fff7c6e4/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] 8 channel microphone
Sounds interesting! I think I'll leave a member of the BLaH gang and/or Fons to answer the calibration question, but as for the name, since it's a bunch of shotguns bunched together, how about 'Gat" as in short for Gatling :-) Dave On 13 April 2015 at 16:23, umashankar manthravadi wrote: > I am planning to do an experiment and want some suggestions. > I plan to build an eight channel microphone using short shotgun capsules > they should be considered 2nd order directivity) I can design an octahedral > frame to support them. overall it will make a 12 cm radius sphere, but the > capsules will be on a 20-25 mm radius sphere. I can easily design to drive > an eight channel a to d like the 8 pre. > how should I go about calibrating the microphone? the eight A-format > signals can be decoded to first order with height plus 2nd order > horizontal, I guess. > what should I call the microphone? > > umashankar > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150413/a21c9b56/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150414/2cc0e249/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning
This would be "interesting" as in "May you live in interesting times" right? Dave On 14 April 2015 at 14:28, John Leonard wrote: > I would be most upset if one of my recordings resulted in the end of the > world. Mind you, it would make for an interesting recording opportunity... > > Regards, > > John > > > On Apr 13, 2015, at 14:12, Dave Malham wrote: > > > oh dear, we seem to have a black hole and > > all we were trying to do was play a goose recording :-) > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150414/169236c5/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning
Only after the next upgrade and even then I'm not sure it will be able to generate a Greylag Boson predicated by ANSM**. Dave ** Absolutely Non-Standard Model On 14 April 2015 at 14:40, umashankar manthravadi wrote: > no no they will use the large hadron collider to recover bits of the geese. > umashankar > > > From: j...@johnleonard.uk > > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 14:28:44 +0100 > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Boids for Ambisonic Panning > > > > I would be most upset if one of my recordings resulted in the end of the > world. Mind you, it would make for an interesting recording opportunity... > > > > Regards, > > > > John > > > > > > On Apr 13, 2015, at 14:12, Dave Malham wrote: > > > > > oh dear, we seem to have a black hole and > > > all we were trying to do was play a goose recording :-) > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150414/64580e2c/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150414/c69f4880/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] cycling..in B format??
I don't suppose anyone has a subscription to Eurosports and can access their Video on Demand service to look at yesterday's Grand Prix de Denain cycling race? A few minutes before the end of the race (about 6, I think) I'm sure I spotted someone at the side of the track in a field next to a van recording with a Soundfield in a Rycote type windshield. Trouble is, it didn't dawn on me what was odd till it was too late - the windshield was pointing straight up, not sideways, which makes it highly likely it contained a Soundfield. Dave -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150417/b639df8d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] UHJ anyone?
Even Immersive Audio's own, rather uninformative, website ( http://www.immersiveaudio.net/) doesn't say and only has one mention of Ambisonics (on the 'mixing' entry). They seem to have a pretty extensive of clients (see the 'http://www.immersiveaudio.net/' menu entry) so maybe one of them can comment? Dave On 18 April 2015 at 01:58, Marc Lavallée wrote: > Hi Steve. > > The web site does not mention that the piece is UHJ encoded; > so can you tell me how you know that it is UHJ encoded? > The player on the site is streaming from soundcloud: > https://soundcloud.com/immersive-audio > Do you know if the other piece, "Leaf Power", is also UHJ encoded? > > -- > Marc > > On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 15:45:07 +0100, Steven Dive wrote : > > In case anyone is still interested in lowly old UHJ pieces, there is > > one called Flower of Life on most pages on the Immersive Audio’s site > > I just happened upon that may be of interest, at least for a listen > > or two. It’s pretty abstract and hypnotic and I found imaging pretty > > good and stable. I was able to play it through Airplay to an AppleTV > > and thence to the DSP for UHJ decoding. > > > > Steve > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150418/337bea99/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] UHJ anyone?
The "pretty extensive of clients " bit should have said (see the "about"
menu entry) not (see the 'http://www.immersiveaudio.net/' menu entry) -
sorry, cut'n'paste slip up...
Dave
On 18 April 2015 at 07:18, Dave Malham wrote:
> Even Immersive Audio's own, rather uninformative, website (
> http://www.immersiveaudio.net/) doesn't say and only has one mention of
> Ambisonics (on the 'mixing' entry). They seem to have a pretty extensive of
> clients (see the 'http://www.immersiveaudio.net/' menu entry) so maybe
> one of them can comment?
>
> Dave
>
> On 18 April 2015 at 01:58, Marc Lavallée wrote:
>
>> Hi Steve.
>>
>> The web site does not mention that the piece is UHJ encoded;
>> so can you tell me how you know that it is UHJ encoded?
>> The player on the site is streaming from soundcloud:
>> https://soundcloud.com/immersive-audio
>> Do you know if the other piece, "Leaf Power", is also UHJ encoded?
>>
>> --
>> Marc
>>
>> On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 15:45:07 +0100, Steven Dive wrote :
>> > In case anyone is still interested in lowly old UHJ pieces, there is
>> > one called Flower of Life on most pages on the Immersive Audio’s site
>> > I just happened upon that may be of interest, at least for a listen
>> > or two. It’s pretty abstract and hypnotic and I found imaging pretty
>> > good and stable. I was able to play it through Airplay to an AppleTV
>> > and thence to the DSP for UHJ decoding.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> ___
>> Sursound mailing list
>> Sursound@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
> Dave Malham
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> The University of York
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
>
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
>
--
As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK
'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] ENVELOP - 3D Sound, on Kickstarter.com - SUB frequency range
0.2, 22.2) > >> > >>And I was also referring to some former 5.1 discussion. (LFE needed > >>for music mixes, or not.) > >> > >>In this sense, we have a mixed discussion. (You still could argue that > >>LFE is not needed in a 5.1 mix; in practice, there could be some > >>issues without LFE. Depends maybe on the intelligence of your > >>equipment...) > >> > >> > >> > >>>i don't need an lfe for music, even less so with all the +/- 10dB > >>>guesswork :-D but i do like my 10 octaves (or the 9.5 which i can still > hear). > >>> > >>> > >>You will experience still your 10 listening octaves if you turn up your > hf amplification a LOT and fry your speakers... :-D > >> > >>Best, > >> > >>Stefan > >> > >>___ > >>Sursound mailing list > >>Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > >> > > > >___ > >Sursound mailing list > >Sursound@music.vt.edu > >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150421/080e9689/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] 3D Sound Labs Neoh headphones
Yep, interesting indeed - but they don't once mention the height dimension, always talking about 360 degrees which implies planar only. Is this, I wonder, just an accidental omission or is the system really limited this way? Seems unlikely given the 9 axes motion/position sensor they have, but. Dave On 22 April 2015 at 15:41, Eero Aro wrote: > Hmm... Interesting: > > http://3dsoundlabs.com/en/ > http://3dsoundlabs.com/en/how-does-it-work/#psychoacoustique > > Eero > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/9cd1de5b/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] 3D Sound Labs Neoh headphones
This seems to have more info about their approach http://interface.cipic.ucdavis.edu/sound/mtb.html. The same guys published papers in JAES and at various AES conventions in the mid noughties but as I gave my JAES collection to the Uni's library when I retired I can't check them out without going into the library Dave On 22 April 2015 at 21:14, Eric Benjamin wrote: > NEOH seems to be quite similar to the "Rondo" from Dysonics: > http://dysonics.com/ > > The Rondo is a small device that can be attached to any headphone and > provides head tracking. The rest of the product is a software player > (RAPPR) that applies the head tracking info and communicates to Rondo via > Bluetooth. So far as I know, its MacOS only. > Dysonics also has a microphone array http://dysonics.com/our-technology/ > > I haven't yet heard either of these products, but I intend to! > > > > On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 10:13 AM, "mgra...@mstvp.com" < > mgra...@mstvp.com> wrote: > > > - Original Message - Subject: Re: [Sursound] 3D Sound > Labs Neoh headphones > From: "Stefan Schreiber" > Date: 4/22/15 12:05 pm > To: "Surround Sound discussion group" > > Stefan Schreiber wrote: > > Ok, they could be a bit clearer. They could refer to anything specific > "above" 5.1/7.1, what they avoided. They could maybe have mentioned > Ambisonics, but most people never heard about. > > Therefore "3D audio formats" and "immersive". > > They could connect the headphones to a (binaural...) Mpeg-H 3DA decoder, > but same story here: The potential customers probably never have heard > of "Mpeg 3DA". The music industry or what remains doesn't know a lot if > anything, etc. > > In fact: 3D Sound Labs should license (or obtain) a few real 3D audio > recordings, for demonstrational purposes. (We are getting into marketing > related questions.) > > Best, > > Stefan > > P.S.: Which gives some urgency to the question how to improve Ambisonics > decoders, and especially binaural Ambisonics decoders. You know that I > have said this again and again. Don't want to complain too much "in > public", even if... ;-) > > P.S. 2: "You have been living in a flat dream-world, Neoh..." :-D > > > > What really irks me are the binaural conference services, like > BT+Dolby Voice or Voxeet. They pitch their service as being 3D audio, but > they lack any concept of the vertical dimension. When I call them on that > matter I get accused of being too fussy. > > In reality, the "3D" aspect of their marketing is really just something > sweet to attract large enterprise or VC flies. > > Michael Graves > mgra...@mstvp.com > http://www.mgraves.org > o(713) 861-4005 > c(713) 201-1262 > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com > skype mjgraves > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/7e4abb37/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/5154a358/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150423/e1e6fb5c/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] ENVELOP - 3D Sound, on Kickstarter.com - SUB frequency range
[?] Dave (In case anyone hasn't had their coffee yet, that's a comment on the last paragraph) On 23 April 2015 at 16:46, Richard Lee wrote: > There is an important reason to maintain full Ambisonic capability to below > 20Hz. > > It is a MUSICAL one. > > Go to a service at a large cathedral with good organ. At the end of the > service, the organist will play something to show off while everyone is > leaving. You can walk around and listen at various positions without > causing offense. > > On SOME pedal notes at SOME positions, you will experience 'pressure in the > head' sensations .. on other notes and positions the experience is 'trouser > flapping' Pressure & Velocity nodes in cathedral space > > A mono recording or single "high quality Sub" converts the pleasant > 'trouser flapping' to unpleasant 'pressure in the head'. > > You need at least stereo, preferably at least 4 subs in a classic Ambi > system (and a TetraMic recording) to reproduce these important aspects of > an organ performance. This isn't about LF 'localisation'. It's about > pleasant musical sounds. > > If the desired effect is Bruce Willis blowing up the universe, dinosaur > footsteps or modern music (??), your single "high quality Sub" is > sufficient. You can also achieve the same effect by having someone stand > behind you wielding a blunt instrument at the appropriate moment. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150423/6797e165/attachment.html> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 360.gif Type: image/gif Size: 453 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150423/6797e165/attachment.gif> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Infra sound & Sub bass.
ccount or options, view archives and so on. > >> > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > >> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/2d4ee38f/attachment.html > < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/2d4ee38f/attachment.html > > > >>> > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/706f8647/attachment.html > < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/706f8647/attachment.html > >> > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150422/332a6733/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150423/ae99b3e4/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] sounds in space - June, Derby, UK
Hi Peter, If I'm not stuck somewhere in a muddy field in the motorhome, or flown off to somewhere nice and warm like Italy, I'll be there, just like every other time you've had it - always one of my favourites. Dave On 27 April 2015 at 17:41, jon burton wrote: > Thank you Peter. > At the moment I am free and hopefully will be able to attend! > Regards > Jon > Jon Burton > Research Student MSc > University of York. > jgb...@york.ac.uk > > > > > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 17:15, Peter Lennox wrote: > > > > Please excuse this, if you're not interested! > > A one day symposium, free to attend (but registration required) -a > low-pressure event, a chance to get together, have a natter, artists, > engineers, perceptual scientists and people in the sound-and-vision > industries (that's not to exclude haptic) > > > > Call for Sounds In Space symposium submissions > > Submissions are welcomed for contributions to the Sound in Space > Symposium from academic researchers, creative practitioners, and students > registered to a UK university programme of study in sound, music, visual > media arts or technology. > > > > Submissions are welcomed in the following areas (although other related > areas also considered!): > > > >Creativity with technology in education and sound and music > >Multichannel sound and music development and realisation > >Ambisonic and other multichannel sound diffusion systems technology > >Hardware and software systems for sound and music spatialisation > >Aesthetics and perception of 3-D sound and music > >Theatricality of sound and sound in theatre > >Acousmatic music and multimedia installation work > >Music and space in performance or production > >Sound, music, hybridity and interdisciplinarity > >Spatialisation, visualisation and communication > >Analysis and/or demonstration of original work > >Critical evaluation of established work > > http://soundsinspace.co.uk/ > > cheers > > ppl > > Dr. Peter Lennox > > Senior Fellow of the Higher Education Academy > > Senior Lecturer in Perception > > College of Arts > > University of Derby > > > > Tel: 01332 593155 > > > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. If you believe this was sent > to you in error, please select unsubscribe. > > > > Unsubscribe and Security information contact: info...@derby.ac.uk > > For all FOI requests please contact: f...@derby.ac.uk > > All other Contacts are at http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150427/e9cda612/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150428/1cc48352/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Converting 16 mic array recording to B format
Oh, dear...I wonder if I can persuade my wife that a trip to Austria in our Motorhome (say, sometime in September) would be a rather nice idea Dave On 20 May 2015 at 06:15, Matthias Kronlachner wrote: > On 20/05/15 14:28, Richard Lee wrote: > >> Mathias, can you please post these recordings on ambisonia.com >> >> The Furse-Malham *.AMB format allows up to 3rd order >> >> These would be the first publically available live HOA recordings of >> music from a HOA mike and may re-surrect the discussion of HOA decoders >> >> >> By the way, the ICSA 2015 ( > http://www.tonmeister.de/index.php?p=veranstaltungen/icsa2015 ) might be > a good place to be if you want to hear a lot of HOA material. > > Matthias > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150520/2d5c853d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Hooke: First Bluetooth Binaural Microphone
Hi On 28 June 2015 at 17:35, Dave Hunt wrote: > Hi, > > I agree with Stefan. > > One would have to undo a binaural encode to something else, then do a > dynamic head-tracked re-encode. > > This can be "sort of" done by using blind source separation techniques to pull out the principle sources and their approximate positions then panning them into a B format form, adding the remainder as a more-or-less diffuse reverberant field. Note carefully I said "sort of" done - ok for consumer stuff (after all, mp3 is ok for consumer stuff) but not for anything serious, except for use in compositions, where the choices are down to the composer. Best Another Dave > I did once try to transform a binaural signal to first order B-Format > ambisonics with height using Max/MSP using a fairly simple algorithm. It > sounded reasonably convincing, but was almost certainly not correct in any > sense. It was just an attempt to use binaural files in a 1st order > ambisonic environment along with mono, stereo, MS etc. > > Ciao, > > Dave > > From: Stefan Schreiber >> Date: 28 June 2015 01:44:45 BDT >> To: Surround Sound discussion group >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Hooke: First Bluetooth Binaural Microphone >> >> >> Anthony Mattana wrote: >> >> >>> We are currently in talks with software spatialization companies >>> regarding adding an algorithm that would allow Hooke to be used as a head >>> tracking audio playback option for VR scenarios. And this could be added to >>> your Hooke via a OTA software update months after you purchase the >>> headphones :-) >>> >>> >> And how can you apply head-tracking to a binaural recording? >> >> Last time I have argued that B format recordings allow (easy) application >> of HT, binaural recordings actually not. >> You can't reconstruct the real or B format sound field from a binaural >> recording. If not, I don't see how you could apply HRTF data sets to >> calculate a (new) binaural representation - corresponding to your current >> head orientation. I am very open for smart algorithms, but still... >> >> No way, IMO! >> >> Best, >> >> Stefan >> > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150628/dbf0e4a5/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150629/2d644358/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 83, Issue 18
> > > Stefan > > > > P.S.: The iPod might still exist, but Walkmen/iPods are obsolete in the > > current environment. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2015 01:44:45 +0100 > > From: Stefan Schreiber > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Hooke: First Bluetooth Binaural Microphone > > Message-ID: <558f437d.70...@mail.telepac.pt> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > > Anthony Mattana wrote: > > > >> > >> We are currently in talks with software spatialization companies > regarding adding an algorithm that would allow Hooke to be used as a head > tracking audio playback option for VR scenarios. And this could be added to > your Hooke via a OTA software update months after you purchase the > headphones :-) > >> > >> > > > > And how can you apply head-tracking to a binaural recording? > > > > Last time I have argued that B format recordings allow (easy) > > application of HT, binaural recordings actually not. > > You can't reconstruct the real or B format sound field from a binaural > > recording. If not, I don't see how you could apply HRTF data sets to > > calculate a (new) binaural representation - corresponding to your > > current head orientation. I am very open for smart algorithms, but > still... > > > > No way, IMO! > > > > Best, > > > > Stefan > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > > > > > > -- > > > > End of Sursound Digest, Vol 83, Issue 18 > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150628/6b59e23f/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150629/f90f578b/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Surround & Binaural Mic Shoot-out thing
See you tomorrow - old guy with grey beard and not that much other hair :-) Dave On 29 June 2015 at 17:56, John Leonard wrote: > Folks, > > I’ll be at the Sounds In Space do tomorrow in Derby if anyone wants to > chat about the proposed shoot out. (Old bloke, white hair, white beard, > jeans, polo shirt with my name on it). > > If you’ve replied to me off-list and I haven’t got back to you yet, it’ll > be because the lovely Virgin Media people have screwed up my broadband yet > again and I’m just sorting out the backlog of email. > > > Regards, > > John > > Please note new email address & direct line phone number > email: j...@johnleonard.uk > phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942 > > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150629/93f91e09/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Google Files Trademark for ‘360-Degree Spherical Audio’ Software
Not impossible if you include the phrase "over headphones" :-) Dave On 10 September 2015 at 01:45, Augustine Leudar wrote: > 360 degree sound on a phone ? Sounds like someone's conning a research > grant out of them to me.. > > On Wednesday, 9 September 2015, wrote: > > > From yesterday's tech news headlines: Google Files Trademark for > > '360-Degree Spherical Audio' Software > > > > http://www.omgchrome.com/google-dynamic-virtual-surround-sound-trademark > > > > Sadly, no technical details offered. > > > > Michael Graves > > mgra...@mstvp.com > > http://www.mgraves.org > > o(713) 861-4005 > > c(713) 201-1262 > > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com > > skype mjgraves > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150909/35a2aba6/attachment.html > > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > -- > www.augustineleudar.com > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150910/a8203605/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150910/ab8adc3d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Audeze tetrahedral microphone
Well, , ah, this (and their website) all smacks a bit of Snake Oil to me, though I could be completely wrong. As far as I can find, there are no technical specifications anywhere (did I miss something?) which is always a bit suspect when big claims are made. For all their eulogising about Gerzon, did they actually read his paper on the soundfield mic from the 1975 AES conference in London? The problems of large capsules/wide spacings are clearly spelt out. There is no way such a large array can NOT suffer from horrendous spatial aliasing down to quite low frequencies. Now, for on-axis sounds there is no reason such microphones shouldn't be good, even excellent, as was pointed out by Peter Baxandall in 1980 (Loudspeakers as High-Quality Microphones) <http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=3776> at the London AES convention. Off axis, on the other hand, the response can't be anything but awful with, for a 100mm capsule, nulls starting at mid frequencies. Tell you what, though, would make some wonderfully freaky images for electro-acoustic pieces ;-) Dave <http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=3776> On 9 September 2015 at 19:40, Joseph Anderson < j.ander...@ambisonictoolkit.net> wrote: > Hello All, > > Of interest to this thread, a video posted by Water Lily Acoustics: > https://www.facebook.com/WaterLilyAcoustics/videos/869044249844736/ > > From the page: > > In this video one sees an Ambisonic (B format) array of four transducers: > > an omni directional microphone, in conjunction with three, push/pull, > > figure-of-eight, planar magnetic microphones, arranged in a coincidental > > manner. > > The figure-of-eight, true push-pull, planar magnetic microphones - > > employing 3 micron thick film (including the vacuum deposited audio > traces) > > and Neodymium magnets - are prototypes. Designed by Dragoslav Colich, the > > chief designer at Audeze and the man behind their extraordinary > headphones! > > A master of planar and electrostatic transducer technology, Mr. Colich > has > > been busy at work and here you see the fruits of his labor Tests made > with > > the array shown in the video below, has lead to the creation of a > > "soundfield" type microphone, with four sub-cardioid, planar magnetic > > drivers in a tetrahedral arrangement. All these outstanding microphones, > > mono (including first planar cardioid!), stereo and Tetrahedral, shall be > > soon seeing the light of day! > > > My best, > > > *Joseph Anderson* > > > > *http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/ <http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net/>* > > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:04 AM, len moskowitz > > wrote: > > > Ronald C.F. Antony wrote: > > > > > > Looks great, although, the capsules look rather large on these images? > >> > > > > > > 100mm diameter (per their web page copy) > > > > ?so I wonder how that?s going to influence the sound or what sort of > >> calibration they offer. Anyone got any experience with one of these? > >> > > > > > > IMO, they have some very serious technical challenges to surmount. > > > > > > > > > > Len Moskowitz (mosko...@core-sound.com) > > Core Sound LLC > > www.core-sound.com > > Home of TetraMic > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150909/27799089/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150910/c6ff9d59/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Google Files Trademark for ‘360-Degree Spherical Audio’ Software
Maybe they are going to inject one of these ( http://www.electronicproducts.com/Biotech/Research/3D_printed_microscopic_fish_used_to_deliver_drugs_and_remove_toxins.aspx) into people's ears so that it implants into the eardrum. Then they could waggle it using magnetic fields to inject the audio directly, avoiding the need for loudspeakers, headphones or anything else. :-) Dave On 10 September 2015 at 10:22, Augustine Leudar wrote: > Ahso re marketed binaural (: or maybe something new > > On Thursday, 10 September 2015, Dave Malham > wrote: > > > Not impossible if you include the phrase "over headphones" :-) > > > > Dave > > > > On 10 September 2015 at 01:45, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > 360 degree sound on a phone ? Sounds like someone's conning a research > > > grant out of them to me.. > > > > > > On Wednesday, 9 September 2015, > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From yesterday's tech news headlines: Google Files Trademark for > > > > '360-Degree Spherical Audio' Software > > > > > > > > > > http://www.omgchrome.com/google-dynamic-virtual-surround-sound-trademark > > > > > > > > Sadly, no technical details offered. > > > > > > > > Michael Graves > > > > mgra...@mstvp.com > > > > http://www.mgraves.org > > > > o(713) 861-4005 > > > > c(713) 201-1262 > > > > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.com > > > > skype mjgraves > > > > -- next part -- > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150909/35a2aba6/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > www.augustineleudar.com > > > -- next part -- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150910/a8203605/attachment.html > > > > > > > ___ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > > > Dave Malham > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > > The University of York > > York YO10 5DD > > UK > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > > -- next part -- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150910/ab8adc3d/attachment.html > > > > > _______ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > -- > www.augustineleudar.com > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150910/284df12a/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150910/c6fc7e26/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Google Files Trademark for '360-Degree Spherical Audio' Software
Oh yes, indeed, but me (and Google) didn't mention that 'cos we might have to pay royalties to the Douglas Adams estate. Dave On 10 September 2015 at 11:04, Peter Lennox wrote: > And of course, it could be a Babelfish.. > > Dr. Peter Lennox > Senior Lecturer in Perception > College of Arts > University of Derby, UK > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > t: 01332 593155 > > -Original Message- > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave > Malham > Sent: 10 September 2015 10:57 > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Google Files Trademark for '360-Degree Spherical > Audio' Software > > Maybe they are going to inject one of these ( > > http://www.electronicproducts.com/Biotech/Research/3D_printed_microscopic_fish_used_to_deliver_drugs_and_remove_toxins.aspx > ) > into people's ears so that it implants into the eardrum. Then they could > waggle it using magnetic fields to inject the audio directly, avoiding the > need for loudspeakers, headphones or anything else. :-) > > Dave > > > On 10 September 2015 at 10:22, Augustine Leudar > > wrote: > > > Ahso re marketed binaural (: or maybe something new > > > > On Thursday, 10 September 2015, Dave Malham > > wrote: > > > > > Not impossible if you include the phrase "over headphones" :-) > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > On 10 September 2015 at 01:45, Augustine Leudar < > > augustineleu...@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > 360 degree sound on a phone ? Sounds like someone's conning a > > > > research grant out of them to me.. > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, 9 September 2015, > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From yesterday's tech news headlines: Google Files Trademark for > > > > > '360-Degree Spherical Audio' Software > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.omgchrome.com/google-dynamic-virtual-surround-sound-trade > > > mark > > > > > > > > > > Sadly, no technical details offered. > > > > > > > > > > Michael Graves > > > > > mgra...@mstvp.com > > > > > http://www.mgraves.org > > > > > o(713) 861-4005 > > > > > c(713) 201-1262 > > > > > sip:mgra...@mjg.onsip.comskype > > > > > mjgraves > > > > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > > > > > scrubbed... > > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2015090 > > 9/35a2aba6/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > > > > > unsubscribe > > > here, > > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > www.augustineleudar.com > > > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > > > > scrubbed... > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2015091 > > 0/a8203605/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the > > > University > > > > > > Dave Malham > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York > > > YO10 5DD UK > > > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was > > > scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2015091 &
Re: [Sursound] Soundfield MKV callibration question
Absolutely right, Jörn. The difficulty with Soundfield type microphones is that the 1st order B format signals are generated from differences between capsules and these become very small as the frequency goes down which means more and more make-up gain is needed which means, in turn, that any differences between capsules become exaggerated. Capsules need to be matched as accurately as possible over frequency and need to stay that way. The MkIII workshop manual has (at least) five pages of instructions on the alignment of the microphone to B format process and tt needs access to a good anechoic chamber. Calrec used a smallish anechoic chamber for the mid/high region and a plane wave tube for the low frequencies, if I remember right. That was all done in the analog domain with preset trimmer pots - I'm sure there are people (Richard? Fons? Eric?) on this list who can comment better than me on the more advanced techniques available (and used) in this digital age. Dave On 11 September 2015 at 23:21, Jörn Nettingsmeier < netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 09/11/2015 01:21 PM, James Anthony Enda Bates wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >>I have a quick question about calibrating a Soundfield MKV. At the >> moment >> the test tone oscillators are coming in with the W channel about 3.5 dB >> lower than X,Y, or Z (these three channels are within about 0.5 dB of each >> other). >> > > It's late and I've had a long day, but isn't that the expected W gain for > classical Ambisonics? > > So obviously the best thing would be to return the unit to get it >> calibrated as it's probably due for one; and this has been noted before on >> this list; >> >> http://sursound.music.vt.narkive.com/UtLGYHeC/sursound-level-alignment-of-soundfield-microphones >> >> However, my question is, if we know what the gain mismatches are based on >> the test tone output, is it sufficient to just apply gain adjustments to >> the b-format recordings based upon these Test Tone signal levels? Or is >> there a possibility that the test tone channel levels, and microphone >> channel levels could differ? >> > > The problem is not the B-format output. B-format is very robust wrt small > gain mismatches - say your Y is 3 dB down, all it does is make the image a > little less wide. > > IIUC, the problem is in the individual capsule gains - if one capsule is > off by 3 dB (which would be a catastrophic mismatch), _all_ output > components will be totally warped. > > The capsule EQs might have similarly severe consequences, leading to weird > direction-dependant coloration. > > > > > -- > Jörn Nettingsmeier > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > Tonmeister VDT > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150912/20f2d3f8/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] ICSA 2015 in Graz this week
I wish, but no such luck, this time. Dave On 14 September 2015 at 15:13, Courville, Daniel wrote: > I’m leaving tomorrow for the International Conference on Spatial Audio in > Graz, Austria. > > > > Anyone on the list also attending? > > Cheers, > > Daniel > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150914/916243ab/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] [OT] Recording uni lectures ...
I'd actually encouraged the University to record the lectures - many are starting to do this anyway, driven by the the needs of accessibility laws (in countries that have them) and the desire to enter the world of massively on-line courses. Unless there's more than a very small number of people, the fuss of setting up a loop system is worse than an individual recorder. Many of our students at York were already recording lectures on phones or laptops before I retired - basically because they were Chinese or other non-native speakers and that helped them understand English accents. I'd thought of putting a Yorkshire accent joke here, but you'd have had to record it :-) Dave On 21 September 2015 at 22:20, Eero Aro wrote: > Hi > > I've simply used (an old) Zoom H2 SD-card recorder. > > I have usually set it for mp3 for lecture recordings (good enough audio > quality and lots of duration) and selected a fig of eight mono recording, > so that possible questions from the audience also get recorded > (at least somehow). > > I have asked a permission from the lecturer to make a recording > for my own use. So far that hasn't been rejected. > > The recorder should be placed close to the speaker, exactly as you > would with a separate microphone. > > I have also sometimes placed the recorder close to the PA speaker in > the room, but the quality through the PA may have thumps or you may > miss some of the speech for some other reason. > > Eero > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20150922/bcee1423/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the protection circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even sense) the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you are near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( Dave On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey wrote: > Hello, > > We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like to > get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm > thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. > > However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only $350. > > Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my > situation? > > thanks, > Charles > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/788cb85d/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
When I was caught out by this problem the level of info described in Sebastian's post wasn't in the manuals so I hadn't thought about it - tho' I *should *have done, given the fact that I designed one for a magazine some 4 decades ago :-( Dave On 15 October 2015 at 10:31, Sebastian Gabler wrote: > That's specifically true for the 8010s. Their max SPL @ 1 m is app. 105 dB > per pair, but the long term SPL is only 91 dB, expressly stated that it is > because of the protection circuit in the manual. > That being said, with 32 speakers, the SPL is 4 time higher than for 2. > That's far beyond comfort zone for any listener for the specified values. > > Sebastian > > Am 15.10.2015 um 10:38 schrieb Dave Malham: > >> One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the >> protection >> circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even >> sense) >> the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. >> This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the >> speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because >> the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes >> a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't >> shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really >> annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't >> heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive >> speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone >> hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the >> sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you >> are >> near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in >> particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the >> zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( >> >> Dave >> >> >> On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >>> >>> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd like >>> to >>> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm >>> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. >>> >>> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only >>> $350. >>> >>> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my >>> situation? >>> >>> thanks, >>> Charles >>> -- next part -- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html >>> ___ >>> Sursound mailing list >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>> >>> >> >> > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/d3cc550f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
Indeed, but for real-world signals bass tends (!) to be higher - at least, if you don't want fried ears - so that's where it shows up. Indicators for overload are useful but in a full sphere surround array most of them are out of sight most of the time so not necessarily helpful. Dave On 15 October 2015 at 11:14, Ilpo Martikainen wrote: > The protection circuits likely trip the tweeter first, as its thermal time > constant is much shorter than that of woofer. Also the thermal power > handling of the woofer is much higher. Normally there is an indicator > turning red if the limits are exceeded and protection is activated. Without > protection people keep replacing tweeters. > > > Ilpo > > > > > > On 15.10.2015 11:38, "Sursound on behalf of Dave Malham" < > sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu on behalf of dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote: > > >One thing I would be careful of on small, active speakers is the > protection > >circuits. Sophisticated protection circuits thermally model (or even > sense) > >the drivers and reduce the gain if one of them is getting near the limits. > >This can cause weird, signal dependent, image distortions when one of the > >speakers is driven harder and drops in gain (usually in the bass). Because > >the speaker doesn't just switch off, which you would hear, but simply goes > >a bit quieter, in an Ambisonic array of, say, 16 speakers, this doesn't > >shout out at you but just subtly distorts the image. Can be a really > >annoying and difficult to diagnose problem, especially when you haven't > >heard it before (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). With passive > >speakers, this doesn't happen - you just get the rattle from the cone > >hitting the endstops or the scrape of the melted voice coil against the > >sides of the air gap but at least the first of these warns you when you > are > >near to damaging the speakers. Note that with small active speakers in > >particular, getting to 'normal' monitoring levels gets you right into the > >zone where the protection will keep cutting in and out :-( > > > > Dave > > > > > >On 14 October 2015 at 18:20, Charles Veasey > >wrote: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> We're upgrading our current 15.2 (Behringer) loudspeaker array. I'd > like to > >> get more spatial resolution and higher quality speakers. Right now I'm > >> thinking about (32) Genelec 8010 and (2) Genelec 7050B subs. > >> > >> However, I have some concerns about the Genelec 8010s selling at only > $350. > >> > >> Does anyone have experience with these speakers, or have advice for my > >> situation? > >> > >> thanks, > >> Charles > >> -- next part -- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > >> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151014/902db591/attachment.html > >> > > >> ___ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > >-- > > > >As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > >These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > > >Dave Malham > >Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > >The University of York > >York YO10 5DD > >UK > > > >'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > >-- next part -- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/788cb85d/attachment.html > > > >___ > >Sursound mailing list > >Sursound@music.vt.edu > >https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/610e8dc8/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Advice on new loudspeaker array... Genelec 8010 speakers?
One of the things that should be investigated in conjunction with higher order Ambisonics material would be to "fade down" the higher order components as the frequency drops, thus spreading the bass over more speakers, reducing the strain on the individual speakers whilst maintaining the spectral balance - hey, wasn't that Richard Lee's Powered Integrated Sub concept from several years ago?? Doesn't help with first order materiel but Dave On 15 October 2015 at 21:07, Steven Boardman wrote: > I did a test with the genelec 6010s I have. > The bass distorts way before before any high frequency problems occur, and > woofer distortion happens before any protection circuit cuts in.. When the > crossover is made higher, more level can be achieved at those frequencies, > with less I'll effects. (I didn't push to far as I still need them.:) > The program material used, was mastered music tracks of various genres. > Obviously in a mixing situation high frequency overload could be different. > Subs are a must. The more you have, the more even the response around the > room? > > Steve. > On 15 Oct 2015 19:18, "Fons Adriaensen" wrote: > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 12:14:59PM +0100, Dave Malham wrote: > > > > > Indeed, but for real-world signals bass tends (!) to be higher - at > > least, > > > if you don't want fried ears - so that's where it shows up. > > > > I can only confirm this. The last few months I've been using > > a room equipped with 36 small Genelecs. > > Without a quite steep highpass or xover to subs it's fairly > > easy to drive them into producing a very dirty sound even at > > moderate levels. You *do* need subs with those, even if you > > don't want 'club sound'. > > > > Ciao, > > > > -- > > FA > > > > A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. > > It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris > > and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) > > > > ___ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/2d238cb8/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151015/6f3f3be4/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Modified SoundField Mk IV
What's the difference between #641 and #650?? Dave On 19 October 2015 at 06:38, Richard Lee wrote: > > Interesting: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11410162-post650.html > > I endorse Rudy's mods described in #641 and #650 > > Ken Farrar did something similar to his #641 mods in the Mk5 > > ... but I think his post should be titled "Where Beach Bums & Angels fear > to Tread" :) > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151019/6697fcd0/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Modified SoundField Mk IV
Something weird going on here - both #641 and #650 come up as identical! And that's even if I view #641 in safari and #650 in Firefox. Puzzled of East Cheam On 20 October 2015 at 05:45, Richard Lee wrote: > #641 & #650 refer to posts on the Gearslutz page > > https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-loca > tion-recording/547304-soundfield-mic-stereo-application-22.html > > #641 describes his initial mods to the stick .. very similar (??!) to Ken's > Mk5 > > #650 describes putting the FETs on the capsule backplate. This gives > probably the most improvement. > > When I emerged from the bush, I toyed with the idea of offering a similar > souping up service for Soundfields. But the risk of damage in transit due > to the flimsy tetrahedron is very high and I have no access to matched > capsule sets. > > I strengthened the tetrahedron while I was at Calrec ... but not enough :( > > -- > From: Dave Malham[SMTP:dave.mal...@york.ac.uk] > Sent: Mon, 19 October 2015 17:48 > To: rica...@justnet.com.au; Surround Sound discussion group > Subject:Re: [Sursound] Modified SoundField Mk IV > > What's the difference between #641 and #650?? > >Dave > > On 19 October 2015 at 06:38, Richard Lee wrote: > > > > Interesting: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11410162-post650.html > > > > I endorse Rudy's mods described in #641 and #650 > > > > Ken Farrar did something similar to his #641 mods in the Mk5 > > > > ... but I think his post should be titled "Where Beach Bums & Angels fear > > to Tread" :) > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151019/0e8787e0/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Modified SoundField Mk IV
Yes! A good night's sleep with a eureka moment in the middle revealed the truth to me! Actually, I was due to me thinking, rather foolishly, that the url was constructed in a relatively sane manner. An old codger like me would think that https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11410162-post641.html pointed to post #641 and https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11410162-post650.html HOWEVER in fact, post650 tells the gearslutz server what to call the page it serves out, NOT what the page actually is, which is determined by the https://www.gearslutz.com/board/11410162 bit of it. I would describe that as too clever by half. Anyway, mystery solved, back to audio... Dave On 20 October 2015 at 01:00, Sampo Syreeni wrote: > On 2015-10-20, Richard Lee wrote: > > #641 & #650 refer to posts on the Gearslutz page [...] >> > > Is there then any method to this madness? > -- > Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - de...@iki.fi, http://decoy.iki.fi/front > +358-40-3255353, 025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2 > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151020/6fb7c336/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD
An interesting site and resource - do hope you don't fall foul of the IP sections of TTIP when (if???) it is ratified! Dave On 20 October 2015 at 20:17, Richard wrote: > Hi > > As some here know i've spent quite a bit of the last five years devoted to > the accurate decoding of the 70's matrix systems, including SQ. > > Decoding SQ is far more complicated than people think and i'm sorry to say > the two software programs you've been provided links for don't decode it, > they are so wrong it's hard to know where to start. > > I run a blog devoted to the decoding of (almost) all of the matrix systems > and making avilable high quality decodes of these original surround > recordings. I don't normally like advertising it like this but if you'd > care to pop along to it then contact me on the blog's email address if you > have any questions. > > https://dreamingspiresquadarchive.wordpress.com/ > > > > I dont expect them to ever sound as good as an Ambisonic recording, > but I bought some SQ-encoded LPs today. I get pleasant results > playing them out of phase with the same on two rear channels at -6 dB. > > My reason for writing is to ask whether anyone here knows what an SQ > decoder actually did. Despite all the BS Ben Bauer spouted when he > presented it to the AES in London (or was it the BKSTS?), I seem to > recall that it wasnt too sophisticated and perhaps, knowing this, one > can synthesize something better than the above in a DAW. > > Thanks in advant for any pointers. > > David > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151020/afdd33e9/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151021/723fa185/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD
Hi Folks, With all this talk about old systems (i.e. no longer being developed or marketed) I did a bit of digging around and found this interesting site http://www.quadraphonic.info/ which includes real service manuals (ie some actually have circuit diagrams) for a number of different decoders as well as various articles, etc. These include one from MAG on Anomalies In The SQ System <http://www.quadraphonic.info/manuals/Anomalies_In_The_SQ_System.pdf> which I don't ever remember seeing (strangely, it's on the "Manuals" page). Anyway, that brought up another memory - wasn't someone trying, or thinking about trying, to do a software implementation of the Integrex decoder some time ago? Dave <http://www.quadraphonic.info/manuals/Anomalies_In_The_SQ_System.pdf> On 21 October 2015 at 19:32, wrote: > I have that decoder (Integrex) to which I did some minor updates, mainly > in the power supply. > SQ playback is pleasant, with good localization and low phasiness (FWIW, > IMHO) > Giovanni Abrate > > -Original Message- From: Martin Leese > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 1:48 PM > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD > > David Pickett wrote: > > I dont expect them to ever sound as good as an Ambisonic recording, >> but I bought some SQ-encoded LPs today. I get pleasant results >> playing them out of phase with the same on two rear channels at -6 dB. >> >> My reason for writing is to ask whether anyone here knows what an SQ >> decoder actually did. Despite all the BS Ben Bauer spouted when he >> presented it to the AES in London (or was it the BKSTS?), I seem to >> recall that it wasnt too sophisticated and perhaps, knowing this, one >> can synthesize something better than the above in a DAW. >> > > MAG's distaste for SQ is well documented, > and in December 1977 there was even a fight > between him and Benjamin Bauer on the > pages of New Scientist. (This was refereed > by Barry Fox (writing as Adrian Hope).) > > However, in July and August 1977 (refs at end), > Gerzon published the design of an Ambisonic > decoder that included an SQ mode (along with > nine other modes). In Part 1, Gerzon wrote: > "SQ decoders cannot be designed to give >full ambisonic results; there is even a >mathematical theorem to this effect. The >decoder for SQ provided is, however, less >phasey in quality than the SQ designs on >the market, and was designed specifically >for incorporation into this design. It is not >in accordance with CBS Laboratories' SQ >specification, but in the author's opinion, it >is better than decoders that are." > > In Part 2, the equations for decoding SQ are > given as: >W'' = 0.73*Sum >X'' = -0.73*j*Sum >Y'' = 0.73*Diff - 0.73*j*Diff >where Sum = Left + Right >and Diff = Left - Right > > As far as I can tell, W'' is the W' signal after > the shelf filters (and the SQ mode did not use > shelf filters). Also the W' signal appears to be > the W signal after removal of the Sqrt(2) > weighting. Anyone interested in implementing > this decoder will need to read the refs, which > will be somewhere in the Ambisonic > Motherlode. > > Regards, > Martin > > Michael Gerzon, "Multi-System Ambisonic > Decoder": >Part 1: "Basic Design Philosophy", >Wireless World, vol. 83 no. 1499, >pp. 43-47 (1977 July). >Part 2: "Main Decoder Circuits", >Wireless World, vol. 83 no. 1500, >pp. 69-73 (1977 Aug.). >later parts never written & published. > > -- > Martin J Leese > E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org > Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151023/523f579f/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5.
I think the problem is the fact that at least one of the decoders needed is proprietary so costs money to include which makes it difficult for free browsers, if not backed by mega corporations. Of course, I could well be wrong (again) but it is a shame when Mozilla loses it's position as the most standard compliant browser, especially when it impacts audio. Dave On 22 October 2015 at 13:44, David Pickett wrote: > Bruce Wiggins' webpage on browsers that play surround recordings using the > HTML5 tag is 3.5 years old. > > http://www.brucewiggins.co.uk/?p=265 > > I dont use IE, and Firefox doesnt play ball at all on the PC, so I use > Chrome for multi-channel aac files. > > http://www.fugato.com/pickett/surround-tests.shtml > > But it is disappointing to think that no other browsers have caught up in > the last three years. > > Has anyone tested any others with multi-channel files? > > David > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151023/a816a6f3/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Browsers that play surround sound under HTML5
Although this is good news for those in Windoze land, the trouble is that what is really needed is a solution which runs transparently across all platforms and at no cost to the end user. Dave On 23 October 2015 at 17:18, Michael Demeyer wrote: > > > > > The new Edge browser from Microsoft will play Dolby Digital Plus audio in > HTML5 pages. It uses the decoder in the Windows OS for decoding. Details > on how to are at: > > > > http://blog.dolby.com/2015/05/how-to-deliver-great-sounding-content-with-dolby-audio-windows-10-and-microsoft-edge/ > > > Michael Demeyer > > Senior Director > > Dolby Labs > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151023/8f80f5ea/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151023/3b7f1e12/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
[Sursound] Integrex decoder
Hi Folks, I was looking out my documentation for the Integrex decoder and I seem to be missing the addendum sheet that I had covering the mods to change one of the mods (H or 45J, can't remember which) to UHJ, which wasn't in the original Wireless World design. Anyone got a copy? Dave -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151027/e35f9422/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Integrex decoder
Thanks! Dave On 27 October 2015 at 16:00, wrote: > I have it. > Give me a day to locate and scan it and I will send it to you. > Giovanni Abrate > > -Original Message----- From: Dave Malham > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:12 AM > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: [Sursound] Integrex decoder > > Hi Folks, >I was looking out my documentation for the Integrex decoder and I seem > to be missing the addendum sheet that I had covering the mods to change one > of the mods (H or 45J, can't remember which) to UHJ, which wasn't in the > original Wireless World design. Anyone got a copy? > >Dave > > -- > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > Dave Malham > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > The University of York > York YO10 5DD > UK > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151027/e35f9422/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151027/71cbd600/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Integrex decoder
Hi Giovanni, Still hasn't gotten through - maybe you should email it direct to me rather than through the sursound list... Dave On 27 October 2015 at 21:38, wrote: > Let me try again. > Giovanni > > -Original Message- From: Dave Malham > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:14 PM > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Integrex decoder > > Thanks! > >Dave > > > On 27 October 2015 at 16:00, wrote: > > I have it. >> Give me a day to locate and scan it and I will send it to you. >> Giovanni Abrate >> >> -Original Message- From: Dave Malham >> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:12 AM >> To: Surround Sound discussion group >> Subject: [Sursound] Integrex decoder >> >> Hi Folks, >>I was looking out my documentation for the Integrex decoder and I seem >> to be missing the addendum sheet that I had covering the mods to change >> one >> of the mods (H or 45J, can't remember which) to UHJ, which wasn't in the >> original Wireless World design. Anyone got a copy? >> >>Dave >> >> -- >> >> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. >> >> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University >> >> Dave Malham >> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music >> The University of York >> York YO10 5DD >> UK >> >> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' >> -- next part -- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151027/e35f9422/attachment.html >> > >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> >> > > > -- > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > Dave Malham > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > The University of York > York YO10 5DD > UK > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151027/71cbd600/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. -- next part > -- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Ambisonic UHJ decoders.docx > Type: > application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document > Size: 20788 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151027/7df17280/attachment.docx > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151028/da1df244/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Integrex decoder
Thanks! Dave On 28 October 2015 at 10:44, wrote: > Ambisonic UHJ decoders > > Here are corrections to the Gerzon "Multi-system Ambisonic Decoder" > published in Wireless World magazine, July and August, 1977. > > Corrections to the phase shift circuits (Fig 1, pg 69, Aug 1977 and > m/l on pg 73 of same issue: > > > Reference Designator(s) m/l value correct value > > C16 1nF1nF > C17 1nF1nF > R147 22k22.1k > R146 56k50.339k > R145+R144105.6k 120.041k > R143+R142 (1) 50.3k 55.772k > > C13 0.1uF 0.1uF > C12 0.1uF 0.1uF > R135 12k 12.1k > R134 47k 22.006k > R133 47k 115.860k > R132 22k 47.235k > > C1527nF 47nF > C1427nF 47nF > R141 22k 22.1k > R140 39k 20.122k > R139+R138 105.6k120.108k > R137+R136 35k 22.315k > > C11470pF 470pF > C10470pF 470pF > R131 12k 12.1k > R130+R129 50.9k 23.809k > R128 47k 115.655k > R127+R126 23.8k 50.941k > > Notes: >1 - R142 on schematic incorrectly listed as R152 on material list >2 - Capacitors are chosen to be standard values most closely > matching >Gerzon values (except C14/15 which were typos) >3 - Resistors are either standard 1% (E96) values (where choice is >'arbitrary') or calculated ideal values to 5 or 6 digits of >precision. >4 - Capacitors should be selected to 1% tolerance >(or purchased that way) >5 - Resistors should be selected from nearest standard 1% value or >made of series/parallel combination to get closer to exact value > Last updated (formatted) September 26th 2005. > Back to start page. > > > > -Original Message- From: Dave Malham > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 4:45 AM > To: Surround Sound discussion group > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Integrex decoder > > Hi Giovanni, > Still hasn't gotten through - maybe you should email it direct to me > rather than through the sursound list... > > Dave > > On 27 October 2015 at 21:38, wrote: > > Let me try again. >> Giovanni >> >> -Original Message- From: Dave Malham >> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:14 PM >> To: Surround Sound discussion group >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Integrex decoder >> >> Thanks! >> >>Dave >> >> >> On 27 October 2015 at 16:00, wrote: >> >> I have it. >> >>> Give me a day to locate and scan it and I will send it to you. >>> Giovanni Abrate >>> >>> -Original Message- From: Dave Malham >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 11:12 AM >>> To: Surround Sound discussion group >>> Subject: [Sursound] Integrex decoder >>> >>> Hi Folks, >>>I was looking out my documentation for the Integrex decoder and I seem >>> to be missing the addendum sheet that I had covering the mods to change >>> one >>> of the mods (H or 45J, can't remember which) to UHJ, which wasn't in the >>> original Wireless World design. Anyone got a copy? >>> >>>Dave >>> >>> -- >>> >>> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. >>> >>> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University >>> >>> Dave Malham >>> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music >>> The University of York >>> York YO10 5DD >>> UK >>> >>> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' >>&g
Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD
Going back to this old theme, something which slipped under my radar but reappeared when I was re-reading the Integrex decoder articles was Michael's throw-away statement on page 3 that "...a fully fledged ambisonic 'variable matrix' design is under development for (such) specialist applications". Does anyone (Geof Barton, Peter Craven, Peter Carbines, Richard lee...) remember this or know anything about it - certainly nothing remains in my memory, even if it was there in the first place. Dave PS The "specialist applications" alluded to were things like surround presented drama where good single sound localization is desired, even at the expense of musicality or listener fatigue. On 21 October 2015 at 19:32, wrote: > I have that decoder (Integrex) to which I did some minor updates, mainly > in the power supply. > SQ playback is pleasant, with good localization and low phasiness (FWIW, > IMHO) > Giovanni Abrate > > -Original Message- From: Martin Leese > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 1:48 PM > To: sursound@music.vt.edu > Subject: Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD > > David Pickett wrote: > > I dont expect them to ever sound as good as an Ambisonic recording, >> but I bought some SQ-encoded LPs today. I get pleasant results >> playing them out of phase with the same on two rear channels at -6 dB. >> >> My reason for writing is to ask whether anyone here knows what an SQ >> decoder actually did. Despite all the BS Ben Bauer spouted when he >> presented it to the AES in London (or was it the BKSTS?), I seem to >> recall that it wasnt too sophisticated and perhaps, knowing this, one >> can synthesize something better than the above in a DAW. >> > > MAG's distaste for SQ is well documented, > and in December 1977 there was even a fight > between him and Benjamin Bauer on the > pages of New Scientist. (This was refereed > by Barry Fox (writing as Adrian Hope).) > > However, in July and August 1977 (refs at end), > Gerzon published the design of an Ambisonic > decoder that included an SQ mode (along with > nine other modes). In Part 1, Gerzon wrote: > "SQ decoders cannot be designed to give >full ambisonic results; there is even a >mathematical theorem to this effect. The >decoder for SQ provided is, however, less >phasey in quality than the SQ designs on >the market, and was designed specifically >for incorporation into this design. It is not >in accordance with CBS Laboratories' SQ >specification, but in the author's opinion, it >is better than decoders that are." > > In Part 2, the equations for decoding SQ are > given as: >W'' = 0.73*Sum >X'' = -0.73*j*Sum >Y'' = 0.73*Diff - 0.73*j*Diff >where Sum = Left + Right >and Diff = Left - Right > > As far as I can tell, W'' is the W' signal after > the shelf filters (and the SQ mode did not use > shelf filters). Also the W' signal appears to be > the W signal after removal of the Sqrt(2) > weighting. Anyone interested in implementing > this decoder will need to read the refs, which > will be somewhere in the Ambisonic > Motherlode. > > Regards, > Martin > > Michael Gerzon, "Multi-System Ambisonic > Decoder": >Part 1: "Basic Design Philosophy", >Wireless World, vol. 83 no. 1499, >pp. 43-47 (1977 July). >Part 2: "Main Decoder Circuits", >Wireless World, vol. 83 no. 1500, >pp. 69-73 (1977 Aug.). >later parts never written & published. > > -- > Martin J Leese > E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org > Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/ > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151029/29930994/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 87, Issue 20
Hi Geofrey, Thanks for the info - now you mention it, VDP strikes a faint chord in my memory, I wonder if maybe either Michael or Peter mentioned at some point when we talking all those years ago. Of course, you know what's going to happen next - someone is going to ask for design info. Dave On 29 October 2015 at 16:22, Geoffrey Barton wrote: > > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:41:25 + > > From: Dave Malham > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD > > Message-ID: > >cy_l...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Going back to this old theme, something which slipped under my radar but > > reappeared when I was re-reading the Integrex decoder articles was > > Michael's throw-away statement on page 3 that "...a fully fledged > ambisonic > > 'variable matrix' design is under development for (such) specialist > > applications". Does anyone (Geof Barton, Peter Craven, Peter Carbines, > > Richard lee...) remember this or know anything about it - certainly > nothing > > remains in my memory, even if it was there in the first place. > > Certainly. It was called the 'VDP' decoder, 'Variable Directional > Preference'. > > Michael and I had great fun with that; it revealed all sorts of detail in > stereo recordings played through it, quite apart from the effect on UHJ. > I believe that, some time after I left the Cybernetics dept, to quote > Peter Fellgett, 'a student destroyed it by connecting 240v into the 5v > supply'. > > rgds, > Geoffrey > > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151029/ed37a8d4/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 87, Issue 20
Well, I tracked down at least one source for my memory - the pdf of what is claimed to be the"original design documents" for the Minim AD7, which can be found here - https://sites.google.com/site/minimdecoders/ Not that it tells you much - just a section (on page 9) on what you can expect out of a "Variable Preference Decoder" for "Normal UHJ", "Fwd UHJ" and "Bkwrd UHJ" In fact, this doesn't seem to relate to the design presented - maybe it was included in the scan accidentally. Dave On 29 October 2015 at 18:58, Dave Malham wrote: > Hi Geofrey, > Thanks for the info - now you mention it, VDP strikes a faint chord in > my memory, I wonder if maybe either Michael or Peter mentioned at some > point when we talking all those years ago. > > Of course, you know what's going to happen next - someone is going to ask > for design info. > > Dave > > On 29 October 2015 at 16:22, Geoffrey Barton > wrote: > >> >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 08:41:25 + >> > From: Dave Malham >> > To: Surround Sound discussion group >> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD >> > Message-ID: >> > > cy_l...@mail.gmail.com> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> > >> > Going back to this old theme, something which slipped under my radar but >> > reappeared when I was re-reading the Integrex decoder articles was >> > Michael's throw-away statement on page 3 that "...a fully fledged >> ambisonic >> > 'variable matrix' design is under development for (such) specialist >> > applications". Does anyone (Geof Barton, Peter Craven, Peter Carbines, >> > Richard lee...) remember this or know anything about it - certainly >> nothing >> > remains in my memory, even if it was there in the first place. >> >> Certainly. It was called the 'VDP' decoder, 'Variable Directional >> Preference'. >> >> Michael and I had great fun with that; it revealed all sorts of detail in >> stereo recordings played through it, quite apart from the effect on UHJ. >> I believe that, some time after I left the Cybernetics dept, to quote >> Peter Fellgett, 'a student destroyed it by connecting 240v into the 5v >> supply'. >> >> rgds, >> Geoffrey >> >> >> >> ___ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > > > > -- > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > Dave Malham > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > The University of York > York YO10 5DD > UK > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151030/660669f1/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD
Kind of thought it might be that - purely manual, or was there any signal dependent stuff going on? Dave On 30 October 2015 at 16:13, Geoffrey Barton wrote: > > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 18:58:34 + > > From: Dave Malham > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 87, Issue 20 > > Message-ID: > > < > capw+1zqb2hl_mpro1dgl44pctu81uupstxq6kwmh3whkw2p...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Hi Geofrey, > >Thanks for the info - now you mention it, VDP strikes a faint chord in > > my memory, I wonder if maybe either Michael or Peter mentioned at some > > point when we talking all those years ago. > > > > Of course, you know what's going to happen next - someone is going to ask > > for design info. > > I think we wrote an AES about it. > > but the clue is in the name. Start with the 'preference' bit, usually > 'forward preference', now allow it to point in any direction over 360 > degrees (indeed 4∏ steradians :-) > > > > Geoffrey > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151030/44a1c3d5/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD
That was a rather expensive mistake of the student, putting 240v onto the 5v rail on that, then :-) Dave On 31 October 2015 at 17:00, Geoffrey Barton wrote: > >> > > Message: 5 > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:40:08 + > > From: Dave Malham > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Kind of thought it might be that - purely manual, > > no > > > or was there any signal > > dependent stuff going on? > > Very much so, it was a multiband design with much detection logic and > VCAs. It took up a half width rack box, 7 or 8 boards as I recall. > > Geoffrey > > > > > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151031/05594ec5/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] SQ QUAD
That makes sense. Thanks. Dave On 31 October 2015 at 16:50, Geoffrey Barton wrote: > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:24:23 +0000 > > From: Dave Malham > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sursound Digest, Vol 87, Issue 20 > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Well, I tracked down at least one source for my memory - the pdf of what > is > > claimed to be the"original design documents" for the Minim AD7, which can > > be found here - https://sites.google.com/site/minimdecoders/ > > Not that it tells you much - just a section (on page 9) on what you can > > expect out of a "Variable Preference Decoder" for "Normal UHJ", "Fwd UHJ" > > that's 'variable preference', which is the Minim pro design (I forget the > number) and the A+D design. Not 'variable directional preference' > > > and "Bkwrd UHJ" In fact, this doesn't seem to relate to the design > > presented - maybe it was included in the scan accidentally. > > I gave Martin that part as the bottom of the page refers to the AD7 design. > > Geoffrey > > > > > > > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151031/f6a1a9b0/attachment.html > > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20151031/0d684b16/attachment.html> ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Re: [Sursound] 8 channels on 12 volts
To say nothing of peak currents of over 33 amps from the 12v supply if you run at a full 8 x 50 watts - you are going to need some serious cabling! Dave On 01/11/2015, David Pickett wrote: > At 13:48 31-10-15, umashankar manthravadi wrote: > >i should check the specs for the ic.it is a single chip and the board > >looks well made - it says 50 watts per channel, but i would be happy > >with about 18watts into 4 ohms per channel. (it should be capable of > >that much - these are bridge outputs. > > http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/233388/STMICROELECTRONICS/TDA7850H.html > > Says 50W at 10% THD, 20W at 1% THD... > > I suppose there IS no such thing as a free lunch! > > David > > ___ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit > account or options, view archives and so on. > -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
