Re: [biofuel] Re: State Run Bio-Fuel Factories for mass and economic production to reduce the
Dave/Hakan: Darryl McMahon sent me a mail mentioning about LADWP, this is a publically owned company. They could generate more than 200 million annual reverue for the city of Los Angeles. So it's a government owned company that is doing a good job. And why not building a municipal LABF, SFBF or NYBF? I cannot think of any State Owned comany that is making money for the people? Maybe a State Owned CALBF factory, plus some CALBF stations? I can't wait to see the new company Logo! Ha! Tricia - Original Message - From: Dave Shaw To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 9:39 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: State Run Bio-Fuel Factories for mass and economic production to reduce the --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tricia, I was thinking about this and wrote US instead of Australia in my earlier posting. It seems to me that the best use of the present governor is to persuade him to make a couple of state produced movies. That would really make a difference in California's budget and an efficient use of his talents. Hakan Hakan, That is hilarious!!! Great idea, we should drop a line to Arnie. Back to the serious issue Tricia was bringing up, my trajectory towards developing a regional biofuels program in the Santa Cruz/Monterey Bay area is based on other forms of public and semi-private funding (community foundations, DoE, Agricultural Departments, etc.). Having the state budget in decay doesn't help but at the same time it is a source of funding that we are not relying on (though we certainly can use all the help we can get). Why nobody is giving domestic BioFuel a little help? new moves. We need BioFuel and there is not enough of production. Public run Bio Fuel factories sounds okay to me? It's better than import more oil from Middle East! Thankfully we will not be inconvenienced (much) by the states' unwillingness to give out new licenses to sell electricity back to the grid. Trisha, you can bet that the city of Santa Cruz or Berkeley would be willing to stick their heads out on the line to forward a progressive stance on the issue. (Though I don't know of any public works power projects in progress that would cause them to do so.) Deconstructing our energy monstrosity won't be easy. It's a many-headed hydra. The governments are not going to give us *too much* help though they *cannot* stop us. Only roadblocks. Becuase there is a strong consumer market for fuels like biodiesel, and therefore as you stated, not enough production, we *will* see more biodiesel production facilites. Will they be publically owned, or will they be Edison owned. That's up to whoever organizes the facility in your area. The business folks are often more ahead of the game than the activists (who are sometimes caught up complaining), but in my area I've beat them to it. *Noone's* putting in a biofuel facility in our county without me hearing about it ;) Public Power to the People! Dave Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] State Run Bio-Fuel Factories for mass and economic production to reduce the price!
California new Governor had declared fiscal emergency, because we have this 38 billions deficit. They have to cut more budgets and spending. Application to get licenses for buying and selling power in California had been temporally stopped since last September. Unless it's special circumstances?? I had read the replies from Public Utilities Commission several times and even asked the legal professional to read them, nobody could be sure what they want us to do? Apply or not to apply? Even there are cities are seriously considering to build their own power companies to serve the communities? Don't know which city dare to be the pioneer? Do you think it's a good idea to buy your power from your city? Instead of Edison? Or we can have our own PV or other renewable power systems? California is also a farmer state, maybe our good governor can spare some money to build state own BioFuel factories? And selling those cleaner biofuel to pay for the budget shortfalls? Hey! It's a good business and pretty good profit, because Diesel is a good commodity. We can even export, for God's sake! But we need production in more economic scale to lower the cost, so the BioFuel will be competitive! When there are a lot of protection of domestic industries, why not BioFuel? There are quota system for textile industry and the newly lift Steel anti-dumping duty for the Steel industry? Why nobody is giving domestic BioFuel a little help? Arnold wants to sell more bonds to collect funds, those bonds are IOUs with interests. Next March people will have to vote on that! In this kind of emergency, I think even the government can try some new moves. We need BioFuel and there is not enough of production. Public run Bio Fuel factories sounds okay to me? It's better than import more oil from Middle East! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] State Run Bio-Fuel Factories for mass and economic production to reduce the price!
California new Governor had declared fiscal emergency, because we have this 38 billions deficit. They have to cut more budgets and spending. Application to get licenses for buying and selling power in California had been temporally stopped since last September. Unless it's special circumstances?? I had read the replies from Public Utilities Commission several times and even asked the legal professional to read them, nobody could be sure what they want us to do? Apply or not to apply? Even there are cities are seriously considering to build their own power companies to serve the communities? Don't know which city dare to be the pioneer? Do you think it's a good idea to buy your power from your city? Instead of Edison? Or we can have our own PV or other renewable power systems? California is also a farmer state, maybe our good governor can spare some money to build state own BioFuel factories? And selling those cleaner biofuel to pay for the budget shortfalls? Hey! It's a good business and pretty good profit, because Diesel is a good commodity. We can even export, for God's sake! But we need production in more economic scale to lower the cost, so the BioFuel will be competitive! When there are a lot of protection of domestic industries, why not BioFuel? There are quota system for textile industry and the newly lift Steel anti-dumping duty for the Steel industry? Why nobody is giving domestic BioFuel a little help? Arnold wants to sell more bonds to collect funds, those bonds are IOUs with interests. Next March people will have to vote on that! In this kind of emergency, I think even the government can try some new moves. We need BioFuel and there is not enough of production. Public run Bio Fuel factories sounds okay to me? It's better than import more oil from Middle East! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] ARIANA 796iEV + 5 Mins Super Chaerger ARIANA iEV Commuter System
This Malaysian EV company is looking for dealers, they will have their US sales very soon. Interested parties can contact Youhana Jafari deputy manager Arian Motors corp. to get dealership! The retail price for ARIANA 796 iEV is 18400 USD. I don't have full spec, it's about 75MPH, 170miles range. Members in Malaysia, anyone has more info? Please send or post! We are setting up this company in California, United States at present, and in the middle of 2004,we would start our vehicles' sale with our specific charger. (ARIANA iEV Commuter system). We have registered this charger and have patent for it, and until mass production of this product, we can not give it's technical specification.Generally, the operation of this charger is as following : All batteries' cells are charged in a specific method, simultaneously and separately,during 5 minutes ,by controlling battery's temperature and considering it's specifications. By considering that we want to mass-produce this product in California! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ariana EV 796i web link
http://ariana-ev.com/ariana796i.htm And you will have to use their ARIANA 796 iEV Commuter Charging System, charge up Li-ion battery pack in 5 minutes(85% of capacity) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Battery EV - super 5 minutes charger found
Darryl tomasjkn 1.Super Charger Here is what I had found from Ariana EV, besides this super charger, car door opens when you are 8 meters away, an a lot of patents that you will find satisfied! http://www.ariana-ev.com/innovation.htm Inventions Innovations in Ariana 792 1 - Ariana 792 Commuter System (Patent No: 28381) Nowadays, the main problem with Electric Vehicles may be the long time that is taken to charge their batteries, (4 to 8 hours). That means there will only be enough time to charge the batteries during resting times of the vehicle, for example in nights. In Ariana commuter system, special chargers are designed for the first time; they can be known as a revolution in Electric Vehicles. In this system, batteries can be charged intelligently and automatically, in five minutes only; that is shorter than necessary for refueling conventional vehicles. 2.FreeWay Charging EV group owner Noel Adam had came up with a good idea to add chargers along freeway! So the EV can be recharged by pulling over to the shoulders or find a place to get a meal. For example, EV needs one recharge at Baker from LA to Vegas, so find a charger at Baker to charge up in 1 hour. During the wait, go get a meal! 3.Before we have such wonder charger, hope that biofuel can start mass production and be available soon. That will be the fastest relief, EV needs infrastructures like Gas Stations(Electric chargers) And even with PV systems, Biofuel can be the energy sources in cloudy/snowy days or at night times. Some time battery packs may not be charged up enough for the rainy days! And under 30-40 C, the current rigid type of solar modules is not going to work. All the best! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Battery EV - correction!
Thank Another Member ToMaSjKn who had corrected me in his mail The charging time is NOT limited by the power available for the charger but by battery chemistry. there is no escape from that He is right, due to the chemistry of the battery. The fastest they can be fully charged will be at least one hour. And no need to have multiple chargers because the wiring circuitry, but need bigger amps to charge the battery faster. And some EV did put their chargers in the front of the EVs. One charger is enough! The current Avcon standard EV charger has following comments from EV yahoo groups The evi ics-200B conductive AVCON (above) is expensive to buy and repair, gives errors too easily that denies power to the EV driver. Air Quality Management Districts choose this overly complicated and expensive AVCON charging head because they use tax payer money and do not drive Electric Had located the new China EV factory for a 4 door EV ZhongQiang Power-tech Co.,Ltd http://www.zqpt.com You could not find the picture or information of this EV from their website yet. Interested parties can contact them for more details! Powered by Li-Polymer Battery. Hailed in Chinese media as the solution for a cleaner future! Range: 316 KM = 189.6miles Max Speed: 120KM = 74.4 Miles Charging time: 1- 4 hours depends on what types of chargers e.g.They have 80 Li-Polymer batteries, @3.7V/100amps, weight 3 kgs=6.6 lbs 10 batteries in a string(battery pack), 8 strands in total. 420V/240 kgs = 529 lbs (All connected in series) From 110VAC or 220VAC outlets to inverter, output 42VDC. If we had a powerful charger to get a 100amps output, then it will take one hour to charge Small portable battery charger will take like 4 hours, because of the low amps! (FYI: Most of the batteries charge fast in the beginning, one hour will reach 90% capacity. But the last leg of charging is really slow and hard, only negative in circuit. And needs lower voltage which a regular charger will not fluctuate to meet this slow down requirement. So the last 5-10% is not 100% necessary to just wait there for another hour to fully charge. 90% is what the factory normally considers Full!) My rosy projection for 24 minutes based on powerful chargers was incorrect! The powerful amps has it's limitation, given up to the Chemistry of the made of the battery! And the factory is hoping to improve the batteries to get it smaller and lighter, to free the energy consumption of the EV. Li-Polymer batteries has no memory, so the factory suggested to charge the batteries whenever you reach a chargers. 30 minutes can give you back over 50% of capacity if you really could not wait for one hour. Go have a meal or go shopping, 30-60 minutes to let the EV charged up. Maybe a portable battery charger do not have greater amps, but we can have one with the EV. Then you can charge EV whenever you could find a AC outlet! So we are back to the original EV stage, waiting to improve batteries and hope the Organic solar chargers will be added to EV soon. So EV can be self-charged under the sun, and hope we have more charging stations available. And maybe EV makers can make the battery split into smaller portable battery packs. So in emergency, we can remove the used battery packs and replace with fully charged one real fast! The option to have a Diesel/Electric car will be a good one! EV's is still a very good solution, electricity is the cheapest energy! Available almost everywhere! I will stick to EV's and waiting for the next generation PV to come to market! But where I can find a EV that can be recharged in one hour like this Chinese EV? The factory is too far away! So the wait is on again, to find a car that is workable! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Battery EV - Frontal Charging
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 8:42 PM Subject: Battery powered EV - Frontal Charging To EV Designers or Producers: 1.All the available EV's and Chargers have the same mind-set as the Gasoline vehicles. With a nozzle on the side of the car, but most of the chargers are standing right in front of each EV's! Drivers have to pull the nozzle toward the sides of the cars to charge their vehicles!?? 2.When we have bulky battery pack on board a vehicle, you have to find other ways to charge the battery packs faster! The biggest problem for battery powered EV 's is the time consuming charging! Toyota RAV4-EV has 30 x NiMh batteries and that takes 4 hours to charge up! If you divided up the 30 batteries into 10 portable battery packs! 1)We can charge the now removable battery packs in 10 separate outlets then it will take only 24 minutes to charge the battery packs! Build a wall full of these outlets, insert these portable packs and pay 1-2 quarters to charge up! And owners can have another set to replace the low energy pack, leaving the used pack to be charged up at homes or offices! 2)You can design the EV's to have a front charger, even your battery pack may locate in the back of the car. Divide them into 10 packs. Wire them to have charging receptacle in the front of the EV's! We can build car ports with chargers in front of each parking spaces, The EV charger heads have 10 contact points, when you park your EV's in each parking space! Flip open the front lid, expose the receptacle to meet the charger! +/- to +/- After they are tightly connected, turn on the switch to allow current to flow into the battery packs! Image the wireless phone receivers, we have to leave them on the charger stands to recharge? So we can use this multiple contact point chargers to charge up the divided battery packs. Instead of wiring batteries to have only one receptacle like the gasoline car with it's gas tank? We can free ourselves from that concept, but using a more powerful charger! Cut down the time of recharge from 4 hours to 20-30 minutes! My original idea to back up the car to allow the battery pack in the back of vehicles to meet the charger was wrong. Some drivers could not back up properly, frontal charging is the only possibility! GEM(NEV) has very good design, but only 25MPH. Reinvent your battery pack and get a better DC motors. 75-100MPH and range 150-200Miles, it will be a real car. 2.Solar Carports Because we are building this type of new structures, the DC current can supply power to these EV chargers. So when you design the chargers, please allow them both AC and DC operable! Solar array can supply 24-48VDC to charge up EV's DC battery packs, without converting to AC! 4.Frontal Charging Every parking spaces can leave rooms to have a charger with this faster and more powerful chargers Must have universal spec for this frontal charger, so EV/Charger/Carport manufacturers have the same set of spec! 5.PV+EV The new type of InGaN cells(Indium-Gallium-Nitride) cell has an efficiency of 56% vs the silicon 14-18%! It can be applied to curved surfaces or windows! Vehicles can be covered with PV and the cost is 60% cheaper than silicon PV! This is important for trailers, RV's! When there is no gas stations! Leaving your vehicles under the Sun to recharge the battery pack is a way out of an emergency! Even military vehicles can be benefited from sunlight charging if moving out of supply lines! In case we have a EV with 1)Li-Polymer Battery packs(or other advanced new type) with 200 or more miles range 2)Covered with efficient flexible PV to get charged in day time! 3)Plus one set of spare battery packs 4)Faster charger electric stations both commercial or at homes/offices. Day or night! 6.Hydrogen or Compressed air are both more expensive energy forms. Electricity is popular and abundant, just don't burn more coals for this increase need for fuel usage. Apply more renewable energy to generate more electricity, we will be okay! To eliminate the negativities of car, oil consumption and air pollutions. Finally the tailpipes on any cars will be history! Anybody has a better idea, please share your thoughts!
[biofuel] Zap EV
Correction: Zap Electric Vehicles, his email should be [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can find this new EV at Las Vegas CES Show, 1/8-11/2004! Or ask them for other shows that closest to your location 2.Zap New Electric Car Contact: Mr. Steven M.Schneider(Chief Executive Officer), email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Long Beach EV show
1.Long Beach EV show You can really test drive EVs at the long Beach show. Alarmingly all the major Auto makers, GM, Fords, Honda, Toyota and Hyundai all were displaying their newest Hydrogen Full Cell cars! The only Hybrid will be gasoline/Electric Cars.Toyota may have a Diesel/Electric Hybrid Pick-up Nov. 2003 in Japan, probably will be available in US next year 2004? So the biofuel group can have an alternative! They must make these Hybrids with EV options, that you can actually charge the battery pack from renewable power sources! Driver can switch to Gasoline/Biofuel or pure electric when they want to! A few EVs at the show were from smaller companies which needs to find capital!! Unless Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars can have smart reformers small enough on board each vehicles, then we can use water as fuel. Otherwise we will have to go to Hydrogen Stations to buy Liquid Hydrogen fuel just like we are buying gasoline now. This is not a consumer market, that will be another sellers' market. The sellers like Oil and auto companies only supply the products they want us to drive or consume! Not that we really have a choice? Do we? Honda Salesman assured me that we can produce our own Hydrogen Fuel at home. When and how safe that will be? Before that happen, we will stil all be depending on the same energy companies for their fuel. 2.Zap New Electric Car ZapCar newest version, made in China! Passed all road tests and will have a special CA EXEMPT license plate to drive be able to drive on Car Pool Lines (even without passengers). Have the $4000 tax break and other incentives! Retail at $10,000 and they are looking for dealers. No inventory, have to order and delivery in 30 days after they import your unit from China. Only one color - silver gray so far! You can try to ask them for other colors. Maximum speed: 60-65MPH, Range per charge: Li-Cd about 80 miles Li-Mh About 240 miles Don't have data on the DC motor, this car is adpoting big capacitors to run the car's motor more efficiently! Air conditioner/CD player+ radio, all the basic equipments available! 2 doors, Windows, like a real good car! 110VAC charger, plug in any AC outlet. (Had asked them too add DC charger, solar module price had came down from 7-8/watt last year to 3-4/watt in 2003. The price is dropping, so very soon we should be able to have our own solar DC power to charge our EVs and for our own houses. You can store the energy that you generate from Solar to Electricty, Hydogen or compressed air) Contact: Mr. Steven M.Schneider(Chief Executive Officer), email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I apolgize if anyone would consider this to be advertising for this company. That was not my intention, all above details you have to recheck with the company. I could not be 100% responsible for the accuracy, so please verify with them) 3.Refueling: 1)According to study, it takes average 7 minutes to fill up gas tank plus paying. And we could not find oil in our back yard and of course could not process it ourselves! 2)It will be faster if we could replace the low power battery with freshly charged battery pack, like in 4 minutes? they could be improved and not so bulky? A portable battery pack that we can get from any 7-11 stores? Or have a second pack for long distance drive? And we can produce electricity at home from our solar systems. Unlike some experts suggested that EV's have to get power from dirtier sources like burning more coal to generate more electricty! That is untrue! Any similar EV shows in other part of the world, would like to share info!! Good Luck! Tricia Liu Solar Systems Vendor [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] You can test drive an electric car this weekend
From: Janet To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 1:15 PM Subject: [ElectricVehicles] Test drive electric cars this weekend in Long Beach You can test drive an electric car this weekend at the Electric Vehicle Symposium and Exposition (EVS-20 for short) in Long Beach, CA. The public is invited to test the latest battery, hybrid and fuel- cell electric vehicles, bikes and scooters. There will also be exhibits and demonstrations from more than 100 of the world's leaders in electric drive technologies, plus celebrities and other entertainment. For more details, see www.evs20.org. Electric Vehicle Symposium Exposition Long Beach Convention Entertainment Center 300 E. Ocean Blvd., Long Beach Saturday, 9 a.m.-4 p.m.; Sunday, noon-4 p.m. $10; 12 and younger free (562) 436-3636 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Arrogance of Power
Paul other non-believers: Please leave God out of your discussion! Show some respects toward other members! Thanks you! Political Discussion: It will die down when the war is over, please have patience and also respect each others! When the time change, the topic will be back to BioFuel only! Have patience! Please! Jennifer: Happy to find you are interested in BioFuel like the rest of us. But how come the military is not getting any BioFuel? They are good for commuter buses and transportation? Help us!? And you should know promoting BioFuel is the responsibility of any governments. To find alternative fuel. While the European Governments are working on producing more BioFuel, this Administration is too busy and President Bush is slashing budgets for renewable energy programs! Government can do a lot more than BioFuel group. But the only discussion you can find is here in this group? It saddens me that the Administration cares more on Oil Industry but not the Farming or BioFuel Industry! Never heard a word of encouragement from them to produce more BioFuel or providing equal if not more than the 1.2 Billion funds for Hydrogen program! (Producing from the same Oil Industry maybe?) You are not responsible for this, but if you are following up this subject. You will learn the fact that why only 1% American drives Diesel vehicles while European is 37%(French is 68%). Leaders should lead the people, we are trying to promote BioFuel in the private sector! That is not fair and not for the best interest of American people! BioFuel is cleaner and there are millions of over production crops, if an able government is a good leader for BioFuel. They can do a lot! The farmers with high tech are one of the best, most productive farmers in the world. But the government set quota for them and didn't find a way to help them to produce to full or bigger capacity for making BioFuel! It's such a simple oversight or other conspiracy? Farming and BioFuel deserve more attention. It's equally important to have fossil fuels for people who needs speed and fly airplanes. But for others who only needs for transportation not top speeds, BioFuel is the fuel. It should be the basic fuel, the government should charge more on gasoline(Which we have to pay higher military expense to secure) but free taxation for BioFuel.(Because it's made in USA and cleaner energy) Maybe protectionism is bad to protect domestic industries from foreign import. But considering the hostile oil producing nations, this is another survival fight. Even Military may solve the current urgency, but in the long run a substitute fuel is most important and TOP URGENT World Energy is raising price from $2.87 to $3.40/gallon in SFO? While Biodiesel Industries has price $1.40/gallon out of Vegas. Why are World Energy charging so high? Seeing that gasoline is raising prices, so BioFuel is raising price as well? You should try to lower the price to win more drivers to drive BioDiesel Vehicles!! The BioFuel industry is like the European Union, a body with so many heads with their own interests! You see! When you need the government and they are not there!? If I had to trust my life to the hand of God, or the United States Marine Corp, I'd chose USMC. They have a better record of protecting people from the thugs of this world. Semper Fi Paul Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 chains of BioFuel Staions, do you know more?
No.1:Western Energetix - operates by Biodiesel Industries, has one in Nevada(First Station opened on May 22nd, 2001) Only 2 pictures available, showing they are selling B20 but no sign for the prices like the conventional gas station? Now as I was told has another one(Maybe No.2) in San Jose, but no pictures at their website. Sent email to the big boss Mr.Teall at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for information and hope they can update their website. No.2:Grassolean - Marketing group, working on selling Franchises. (May kill me for disclosing their plan too soon!) (Pun with gasoline!) Don't know who is their BioFuel supplier! Where are all the pumps and what are their price points? Doing research as Mark suggested, but I can tell you. Not much you can find from Internet! Members can upload photos of your local stations or pumps to Yahoo photo and give us the link. Appreciate your help! members from all over the world, not only in California. Have to broaden the search and please give picture showing the current prices, if possible! Thanks! this list doesn't send attachments, so we can't send photos via list. There are lots of biodiesel pumps at various stations around the country. Look at the National Biodiesel Board website and follow a bunch of links- see what you can find. Biodiesel Industries is the company whose fuel is at the station in San Jose. Do a search for them, they have photos on the site I believe. mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel
There was a member who posted that there are two SFO stations that are selling BioFuel. Do you have pictures of these 2 stations? With the sign that have the prices for B20 or B100? Need proof to show major and major pro tem, please send to me. Any other BioFuel stations? Need photos! Photo is more convicing! Thanks! Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] 2 SFO gastions that are selling $2.71/gallon Biofuel
There was a member who posted that there are two SFO stations that are selling BioFuel. Do you have pictures of these 2 stations? With the sign that have the prices for B20 or B100? Need proof to show major and major pro tem, please send to me. Any other BioFuel stations? Need photos! Photo is more convicing! Thanks! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
the link is http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#ascend to save your time, the whole chart Vegetable oil yields Biodiesel yield = oil yield x 0.8 approx. Note: These are conservative estimates -- crop yields can vary widely. Ascending order Crop kg oil/ha litres oil/ha lbs oil/acre US gal/acre corn (maize) 145 172 129 18 cashew nut 148 176 132 19 oats 183 217 163 23 lupine 195 232 175 25 kenaf 230 273 205 29 calendula 256 305 229 33 cotton 273 325 244 35 hemp 305 363 272 39 soybean 375 446 335 48 coffee 386 459 345 49 linseed (flax) 402 478 359 51 hazelnuts 405 482 362 51 euphorbia 440 524 393 56 pumpkin seed 449 534 401 57 coriander 450 536 402 57 mustard seed 481 572 430 61 camelina 490 583 438 62 sesame 585 696 522 74 safflower 655 779 585 83 rice 696 828 622 88 tung oil tree 790 940 705 100 sunflowers 800 952 714 102 cocoa (cacao) 863 1026 771 110 peanuts 890 1059 795 113 opium poppy 978 1163 873 124 rapeseed 1000 1190 893 127 olives 1019 1212 910 129 castor beans 1188 1413 1061 151 pecan nuts 1505 1791 1344 191 jojoba 1528 1818 1365 194 jatropha 1590 1892 1420 202 macadamia nuts 1887 2246 1685 240 brazil nuts 2010 2392 1795 255 avocado 2217 2638 1980 282 coconut 2260 2689 2018 287 oil palm 5000 5950 4465 635 Alphabetical order avocado 2217 2638 1980 282 brazil nuts 2010 2392 1795 255 calendula 256 305 229 33 camelina 490 583 438 62 cashew nut 148 176 132 19 castor beans 1188 1413 1061 151 cocoa (cacao) 863 1026 771 110 coconut 2260 2689 2018 287 coffee 386 459 345 49 coriander 450 536 402 57 corn (maize) 145 172 129 18 cotton 273 325 244 35 euphorbia 440 524 393 56 hazelnuts 405 482 362 51 hemp 305 363 272 39 jatropha 1590 1892 1420 202 jojoba 1528 1818 1365 194 kenaf 230 273 205 29 linseed (flax) 402 478 359 51 lupine 195 232 175 25 macadamia nuts 1887 2246 1685 240 mustard seed 481 572 430 61 oats 183 217 163 23 oil palm 5000 5950 4465 635 olives 1019 1212 910 129 opium poppy 978 1163 873 124 peanuts 890 1059 795 113 pecan nuts 1505 1791 1344 191 pumpkin seed 449 534 401 57 rapeseed 1000 1190 893 127 rice 696 828 622 88 safflower 655 779 585 83 sesame 585 696 522 74 soybean 375 446 335 48 sunflowers 800 952 714 102 tung oil tree 790 940 705 100 - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:09 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Tricia Hi, first I want to say thanks for the information you have provided about the crop yields. I am pretty new to biodeisel and tottally new to this group. I have been looking for this information all over, but have had little clue as to where I would find it. Can you tell me where you got this info I am building a business plan for making Biodeisel and this is important information. Thanks Doug Allbright -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Corns yeilds 18 gallon/acre Soya yields 48 gallon/acre Cocunuts 287 gallon/acre Oil Palm635 gallon/acre Chokecherries 214 gallon/acre? Based on those yields, the price for Oil Palm should be 35 times better than corns? The retail price for Biofuel is $2.05-2.50/gallon. So we are talking about an Oil Palm crop that can produce $1,400 - $1,587.50 market value per acre comparing to $36.90 - $45/gallon for the corns? (Or other suitable plants for the climate and the processing capability) I don't know how many yields per year for these plants and maybe the harvest will be hard etc. But the BioFuel Accosiation or the Farmers groups should find a better BioFuel crops to grow, to make more money and provide better yield! Howcome the farmers states never put some funds to discover the best yield crops and encourange their farmers to at least switch some of their lands to grow these energy crops? By mass production to bring down the prices of BioFuel, then more drivers will switch to Bio Diesel vehicles. Can not believe that there are no organization or talents in the government in doing this job? To improve the productivity of the lands and to increase the incomes of the farmers. Farmers should use wisely your resources and voting right, not only helping to set up experimental farms to find the best crops for each states. Just like France and Italy, Biofuel should be tax free to help her to gain market share. And maybe later on, after BioFuel replaced good portion of the Fossil oil fuel. Go back to tax again, by that time, the BioFuel prices should be really reasonable! Hope to hear from the real farmers, I'm just speculating. There must have some organization will lead the farmers to plan their production to get the maximum market value of of the same land? The productivity of the farmers had been high, but you have to add in the market value consideration. To grow more valuable crops
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
1.BioFuel Business -- You should work on Oil Palm, it got 3 times higher yield than any other crops. I thought about it the wholeday, if you wanted to do it. Get the best yield out of the same efforts! Where did you normally get all the seeds for Oil palm or Kenaf? 2.Side products --- (If you are new here, check out www.greenla.com/recycling/kenaf.htm Not only kenaf can make biofuel, they are also good to make paper. To save the industry from chopping down more trees!!) 3.Seeds Received inquiry for where to get these seeds, Where did you normally get all the seeds for Oil palm or Kenaf? Need help! - Original Message - From: Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 9:09 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Tricia Hi, first I want to say thanks for the information you have provided about the crop yields. I am pretty new to biodeisel and tottally new to this group. I have been looking for this information all over, but have had little clue as to where I would find it. Can you tell me where you got this info I am building a business plan for making Biodeisel and this is important information. Thanks Doug Allbright -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 3:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Corns yeilds 18 gallon/acre Soya yields 48 gallon/acre Cocunuts 287 gallon/acre Oil Palm635 gallon/acre Chokecherries 214 gallon/acre? Based on those yields, the price for Oil Palm should be 35 times better than corns? The retail price for Biofuel is $2.05-2.50/gallon. So we are talking about an Oil Palm crop that can produce $1,400 - $1,587.50 market value per acre comparing to $36.90 - $45/gallon for the corns? (Or other suitable plants for the climate and the processing capability) I don't know how many yields per year for these plants and maybe the harvest will be hard etc. But the BioFuel Accosiation or the Farmers groups should find a better BioFuel crops to grow, to make more money and provide better yield! Howcome the farmers states never put some funds to discover the best yield crops and encourange their farmers to at least switch some of their lands to grow these energy crops? By mass production to bring down the prices of BioFuel, then more drivers will switch to Bio Diesel vehicles. Can not believe that there are no organization or talents in the government in doing this job? To improve the productivity of the lands and to increase the incomes of the farmers. Farmers should use wisely your resources and voting right, not only helping to set up experimental farms to find the best crops for each states. Just like France and Italy, Biofuel should be tax free to help her to gain market share. And maybe later on, after BioFuel replaced good portion of the Fossil oil fuel. Go back to tax again, by that time, the BioFuel prices should be really reasonable! Hope to hear from the real farmers, I'm just speculating. There must have some organization will lead the farmers to plan their production to get the maximum market value of of the same land? The productivity of the farmers had been high, but you have to add in the market value consideration. To grow more valuable crops to make more money, the money will either goes to imported oil or goes to the farmers. - Original Message - From: norris hobson (SRI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:42 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England The reasons are many: The markets are probably not in place The processing is not in place Farmers have the equipment and knowledge to grow and harvest corn, wheat soya etc. They will not commit their large farms to a crop which they do not know how to grow, harvest and sell. The claims for yields are probably based on research with trial plots and the yields from growing them in real conditions with pests and diseases that will get bigger as the crops get bigger are much lower. I'll take the example of hemp grown in the UK - it is a wonder crop, amazing yield, needs little fertiliser and chemicals as it grows so fast. Amazing tough fibre, seed can be used for biodiesel etc. But how much is grown. Around 2500 ha. even with a subsidy of around £500/ha. Why - because it is a bastard to harvest and the yields are much lower than the researchers quote, and hence the returns are lower. There is a small demand for it but a UK company has been working very hard for years to promote the crop, and their main market was/is the hurds used for horse bedding. What are chokeberries. Is it April 1st. Rob -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 February 2003 11:58 To: biofuel
Re: [biofuel] organic solar cells
When you consider the framed solar panels, they are rigid. And installation seem to be redundant, that you will need a racking system or tracker. With organic solar film, like I'm reading one of my dream! One day the application will be like a paint that you can paint on any surfaces. Transparent or colored solar film in many colors for you to choose! So when you are painting your houses/cars, which we all have to. You are building your solar system. And the price will be only 1/10 of the current price? That is even better! It's such a happy thought and good news! Thanks a lot! Now we will search and see if could find information about the molecular structure of this organic solar cell. .- Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:23 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] organic solar cells On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:08:40 -0800 (PST), you wrote: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storyprint.cfm?storyID=3101056 Thanks for the info. I hope if works out for them. Over the years I've heard allusions to the energy intensity and waste-disposal problems of present forms of PV manufacturing, so maybe this material (I think that's what it is) will be better in those areas as well as having other potentials. The negotiations with the cell phone manufacturer sounded interesting. Development of power solutions for small devices is an interesting field. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
Mr.Hartman posted a long message not long ago, voicing for the American Farmers. The income is lower and the cost is growing higher... And then there are discussion about these higher yield products, so why don't the farmers grow the better yield crops? African Oil plants or the chokecherries? Climate or weather limitation? Cost too high? (I may retire earlier to start my own farm, if these are the star crops for the future!) So why don't you? The growing demand of BioFuel and the corns and Soy beans are not the best sources for biofuel? Seem to be a simple solution but did I miss anything? Instead of asking for the government to keep on funding, maybe if the farmers switching to the higher yield crops. Then we will see some Farmer Tycoons over those oil Tycoons? - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England They do. More oil per acre than African oil palms, apparently, and a LOT of pulp for ethanol - and they smell nice too? Bonus. The bees prolly love 'em. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 08:14 AM, kirk wrote: I don't think of chokecherries as bearing much. The blossoms are one of the lovliest scents in the world. Truly exquisite. Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] cost of gasoline, ethanol mixture @ 76 stations
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pr020722.html http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pr020627.html - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: [biofuels-biz] cost of gasoline, ethanol mixture @ 76 stations 1. The cost of gasoline at some local stations in San Diego seems to be pushing upward steadily. I'd say in the low $1.80s per gallon around where I live for 87 octane, and it can get over $2.00 per gallon for 91 octane. 2. I've been making a point of buying down the street at the local 76 station. I believe now that 76 is part of Conoco-Phillips or some such. They have been very clear in their NO MTBE signs around here for what seems like about a year. Their signs on their pumps used a wording that said the gasoline *might* contain ethanol, but it was never entirely clear. I chose to hope that they were including ethanol, because I think the other way to get around the Oxygenate rule (reformulated gas) might not be that common and I don't know if it's legal. I have written them to attempt to get a confirmation that they *are* using a 10% or so (or whatever the standard is, to satisfy the oxygenate requirements) mixture, but have received no response. A late-night worker there did respond with confidence that they were, but I can't take that as the final answer. Others may say, Well, so what, we see ethanol elsewhere all the time. I think it's important. There was a *hellacious* battle to get the oil companies to switch away from MTBE in California, and to get them to consider using ethanol. That battle seems to have gone silent for the last year. Many seem to be still using MTBE, according to some pumps I've seen. If 76 is doing something good (by the standards of ethanol proponents) then we must give them credit and make it clear that we appreciate the lack of runaround on the issue. Too often we wait for bad news or resistance to bring attention to a business. The station I go to charges always within a penny or two of the Shell Station nearby. So, if 76 is using ethanol and incurring the doomsday extra costs that the Refiners claimed would be incurred if they were forced to use ethanol, then it's not showing at the pump, one bit. I haven't heard a peep of complaint from 76 about this, and have seen the very large NO MTBE signs at many (all?) of their stations. Prior to being able to buy this gasoline down the street, which I am assuming has ethanol in it, I had *never* been able to find a single pump in my area that had any ethanol mixed in. So, while others may take such availability for-granted, I think this 76 program is awesome, pending verification that in fact they're using ethanol. I'm still wary on that point. If and when further political decisions and events come to a head, I expect the Oil companies to drag out further anti-ethanol arguments, and it would be nice, at that time, to be able to report that at least one of them has not only been implementing a 10% or so mixture of ethanol in some areas, but is doing so with no customer dissatisfaction as to quality or price, and is still able to do excellent profitable gasoline-selling business, so that many of the arguments are just nonsense. If 76 is really doing this, then I salute them. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: From a local Group
Sorry for didn't follow up? Why you are fighting? For permit? Recently we were denied a permit for a solar carport, the chairwoman of the planning committee does not like solar panels. She thinks the blue polycrystalline panels are not just another new type of building materials!? You have to hide them on the roof and in the back. Not to be seem from the streets. She said that in a public hearing and tried to humiliate us in front of the participants, she and her atheistically taste are for the sake of the city!? We were not humiliated but surprised, she needs to be re-educated to keep up with social or scientific PROGRESS! Same from the San Marino city, where a lot of million dollars houses! You can put solar system but in the back, not on the front that you can see from the street. Why? It's not acceptable if only some houses have the solar panels and some have not. It will not be in conformity and will decrease the property values in that area. I actually think it will increase the value of the property! And I know some construction companies are now building new and energy efficient houses with the option of solar systems, they are selling very well. It's a new commodity available in the market and consumers love the idea that they can lower the consumption of energy, build up their own power supply! I just don't get it? Why some governments can not see the benefits but the negative side of progree? Sometime you wish that all the approval processes can be handled by computers, not human! Unless there are perfect Christians and never make mistakes! Need a strong leader to lead the progress of alternative energy. For the farmers, the funding is a sign of approval to push the movement to the right direction. Losing the funding for the windmill is symbolic and financially devastating, because they will be discouraged. I shared the same feeling that we would rather move on the jobs and not wasting time to fight the governments! They treated us like enemies and it's unbelievable! Only few like Clintons or the Gores are pushing this agenda! Also we are talking about converting an old gas staion to a green station, and pumps to sell biofuel! We have to come up with the numbers to support the proposal, that how many population or cars in that city will need biofuel. Because it's in a commericial zone, we will have to deal with the same athestical standard as the same lady is in charge of the planning. The other planners were happy about the idea and suggested us to get funding from the environment department in the city hall. The feeling is mixed and I hope it's just the process for moving to a new era! But I do share the feeling that you have to spend so much time in dealing with them! We might have to go to media if the dragon lady persisted here! Legal system is not a perfect place to argue. In the present system of things, can only say Good Luck! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:41 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: From a local Group --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Jon Fairbanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why do you guys waste your time grumbling and BEGGING for hand outs and the goodwill of others? Get your stuff working...AND...cost effective...and show all those creeps you are right. Jonathan Fairbanks LOL! It's the nature of the Beast, I guess. No one is allowed or permitted to go into competition with the government favored Businesses. It's a mutual back-scratching arrangement. The government subsidized Businesses give large amounts of Campaign money to Politicians, and the Politicians give huge subsidies to those who contribute well. They actively support each others Monopoly by stonewalling any applications for Permits. If you are not a Member of the Insider's Club, you will not be allowed through the Bureaucratic Permit process. Putting together a viable Business Plan is no big deal, even without subsidies. Getting past the Regulatory hurdles is nearly impossible. I probably need to add a Disclaimer here, that my position is not unbiased. I've been trying for 5 months to get into Court, and can't because I haven't exhausted all Administrative remedies. Administrative remedies consist of sending in Affidavits, Complaints and Demands, waiting 30 or 60 days and filing followup paperwork, to discover that my initial papers were misplaced or lost, or have been referred to another Department and/or must be resubmitted, etc etc etc. A Public Service announcement in a Newspaper advising the Public to be sure to have any dealings with certain individuals written and signed under penalty of Perjury as the subject is a proven Liar, seemed to stir a bit of action. My major complaints are to the Supervisory level of a State Department now, and I have documented evidence of Fraud and Conspiracy waiting to be filed against a lower level Official on a personal
Re: [biofuel] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen?
Big energy owns patents on producing Hydrogen and has the muscles/capacity. They are ready to move into the next killing field where they can master, again!! President Bush just promised us Hydrogen cars for the year 2015. You think it's coincidental that the White House and the big energy see something in common for the future, that we can not foresee? That we will be driven to drive Hydrogen cars and still paying these big energy companies their handsome reward in dominating the energy - Hydrogen supply? Why are we here talking about BioFuel and Air cars/Electric cars? Our future had been chartered by the big energy and politician. Don't you know that? They can dictate what kind of cars that we can drive and when, and all we can do is to buy from the menu for the limited choices we have! Maybe the lessons that we had learned from being slaves to gasoline, had finally paid off! So we are searching on our future cars, not following their plan. Do you think we will be punished for being naughty? If I got my hands on an aircar, takes some electricity to compress air. So what? The air is free and once release, it's still air. And put them back in, compress then release! Compress and release..Do it everyday and nobody can charge me for using the air. Nobody can limit the use of air and that is a good thing. The big energy company probably had not found a way to stop us from using Air as alternative ore renewable energy yet! And why the energy company spares BioFuel? Because it's expensive to produce Bio Fuels or ethanol? The big brother will try to control us again!! Forcing us to use this dirty gasoline and it's by-products, causing wars and ruining the earth! The entire human population is now chained to the gasoline pumps, no way to escape! But hope! God gives us hope! We can still get biodiesel, air or even Hydrogen cars. However beware of the Hydrogen supply market, unless they can control this supply or else they won't let go the gasoline. Which they have total control, what kinds of cars do we drive or how frequent that we have to visit gas stations. Do you not feel that we are all pre-programmed to buy a car and then go to gas pumps, TV commercials, car salesmen, auto shows! We people here probably have 'defects' in our programs, that is why we are seeking a different solution. Good luck! Watch your back! Don't let them get you! - Original Message - From: Alan S. Petrillo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? Keith Addison wrote: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14959 Is Big Energy Hijacking Hydrogen? Wrong tense. Big Energy has hijacked hydrogen. AP -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.net Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Africa 'turns from leaded petrol' vs Air car factory in South Africa
Air car in South Africa, check out this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/988265.stm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] $2.60 for recharging and the French aircar runs 120 miles
Mexican government bought 40,000 French Air Taxi and going to be delivered in couple years. We will have to go to Mexico City to try out the Air Taxi. Suggested Retail $14,000(Euro 9500), runs 60MPH, range 120 miles. Charge at station $3 per charge and takes 3 minutes(If we had these infra-structure available) Charge at home with a small electric air compressor takes 4 hours, take 20 KWH of electricity. S.C.Edison is charging 13 cents per KWH, then the cost to charge at home will be $2.60 And spending $2.60 and I can run 120 miles??? This must be a dream? Anyone who knows the price of the small home use air compressor? The price for Air car already included an on-board 5.5KW compressor to compress air into the tanks! Happy to know there are about 50 companies want to buy franchises or manufacturing facilities. Hope more air cars will be available, personally I will like to take the Family 6 seater! Also will see how much they will tax for using AIR, if any! It's not 100% green, unless the energy to compress air comes from biomass/solar or wind. Power plant still using 70% or so fossil oil to generate power! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Website for all the available models but no price reference!!
There are a list of available Diesel in US car market, http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html but as mentioned before. Only 1% American is driving a diesel because the gasoline prices are artificially cosmetically much lower than that in Europe. We pay 1.60/gallon in S.California and they are paying 3-4 or even 5 dollars/gallon in Europe after tax. The last I had found Diesel is $1.67/gallon and in a remote gas station, not all gas stations sell Diesel. Not to mention to find a gas station that is selling Bio-Diesel, our proposed green station maybe the first if we could get passed the red tapes in City Hall. (they don't understand what is going and how could you expect them to approve something they don't even know and why you want to buy or sell Bio-Diesel?) European drives 32%(French 68%) diesel and anybody know they are selling BioDiesel at their gas stations? I know BMW is trying to build Hydrogen pumps in Europe for their Hydrogen fleet. Good luck~ Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Intro and question I think one of the previous posts correctly pointed out that people may be willing to travel some distance to get a good buy on diesel cars and many others would benefit from the price information to use as value points in their local market where a dealer may not have a clear idea of the true value of a given car or truck and be over pricing it just because they do not deal with very many. That said a simple listing as each car or truck becomes available with basic details and a price would not take any more time than, he says as politely as possible, some of the other trivia we see each week on this list, much of which is at least entertaining. It would be good if there was a web page to go to for a complete listing of what has sold and what is available with the prices and full details, perhaps even pictures similar to what we may see on ebay. When in the states I live in Oregon and would be pleased to fly to California to get a good deal on a diesel car. Have a good day. Vern Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. --new type of Gel Sealed battery
Before we can store electricity in Hydrogen or Compressed air forms outside the lab! There is a new type of Lead-Vitriol gel-sealed battery! Replacing the liquid Sulfur Acid with Colloidal Vitriol Acid. This acid won't form lamination like sulfur acid which causes the cells to close out. Longer life(450 recharges than 300 for Lead Acid) and low self-discharge rate(2% per month vs. 1% per day). Charging and discharging to full capacity faster! Colloidal Acid has good heat dissipation, so no internal short circuit to interrupt power flow! Invented by German, improved in China. Chinese government is promoting this battery to replace Lead Acid Battery all over China. Oxide Battery may start this OEM battery soon! - Original Message - From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:30 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. Most newer inverters are PWM sine wave output. Modern MOSFET designs improve efficiency incredibly over less efficient transistor designs. A 500W inverter wasting 20% is quite exaggerated, I have seen actual values from 90-97% A lot of people don't take into account the losses associated with running low-voltage high-current power through a conductor. A 12 volt appliance drawing 20 amps with a loss of .08 ohms in the conductor [size 12 AWG, 50 feet] would have a drop of 1.58 volts - assuming you could get that 20 amps of current [max allowed for 12 gauge wire], you would be wasting 30 watts in your wire. 24 volt systems are much better. Depending on your situation and if the wire already exists in your house, you may be better off using a high-efficiency inverter or inverters that switch on with an increasing load [to reduce idle losses] Larger-gauge wire would also be a lot more expensive for new installations. --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -Original Message- From: John Mullan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:21 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Homemade inverters. I have been keeping my on the inverter subject for a while. As a 'reasonably' educated electronics technician (mostly digital) I feel I can comment on this. Most inverters are notorious energy wasters. Energy waste is proportional to energy drawn. For example (not accurate) a 100W inverter wastes 5% while a 500W inverter wastes 20%. Transformers can of course give you a better sine wave. However, 60hz is such a low frequency that you need a huge transformer. Solid state produces the noisier sine wave and depending on the wattage you require, can be very difficult to keep the output devices cool. Many of the new inverters have improved on efficiency, but are expensive. I bought a 1800W Tripp-Lite unit for $1200 CDN. And it doesn't take long for a pair of 500W quartz lamps to drain 2 deep-cycle marine batteries. It might be better to use a few smaller individual inverters for smaller loads and a couple of heavier duty ones for heavier loads. IE; use the size necessary to get the job done. If you used one huge inverter to power most of your house, it would have to be on constantly and waste a lot of power (they do consume energy even when the load is off). Better yet, you can get almost every electrical device you desire in a 12 or 24 volt version. Why not convert everything to low-voltage (24 being more efficient than 12). You will get a lot more time between recharges over using inverters. PS: I know I didn't really solve any problems here but hope to have imparted a little knowledge for Patrick. Cheers, Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] air car
In the future, Solar or wind to generate electricity at home. Either to produce Hydrogen or Compressed air. They run not only the cars but your home appliances/lighting and everything else! President Clinton called that decentralized energy policy, no need to depend on big oil or energy companies! Right now, we can not live without the oil and energy companies. All energy production is highly centralized in those big companies, they get to swing the policy! Edison did that in California, and everybody can see how that happened. You pay up or I cut you off power supply! Energy shortage? Friend in Arizona tried to set up a facility to use solar panels to generate power and sell for money. The best price he could find to sell those electricity is 1 cents per watt. And in Southern California, we are paying 11 cents for business and 13 cents for residential. From Edison's self deceiving commercials on TV, they are still claiming they are serving Californian! Other states even offered help to sell electricity from their power supply to California, none taken! Being screwed by your own power company! And still have to keep their services after they had done all these! Spineless human! If Bush's energy department has the same like-minded focus as this discussion group. At least there will have several projects that can work on. To find out the best energy solution, Biddiesel, Hydrogen etc.. But you can see it's not happening and that probably not what the big energy companies want the president to do. Al Gore mentioned that instead of using the momentum gathered after- the 911 attack to urge American to conserve energy or use other alternative energy. They decided to use that momentum to support more military deployment in the Middle East! - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] air car I am sure the transmission loss factor vs gas formulation cost has been beaten to death in other discussions of EVs. But just to make is more simple. assume your Solar panel is sitting on your roof. there wont be too much of a transmission losses. so all day long, you can compress air in a tank at home. when you get home, you can transfer this to your car slowly overnight, adding more if needed overnight cheaply. I suppose you could add a bank of batteries at home, instead of a an air tank. But then you would lose 10% getting the juice into the batteries and 10% getting it out. I would rather have one powerplant with one pollution source.. than have 1,000 guys at home with generators. New pollution control technology only has to happen once.. not 1,000 times. I also wouldnt have to worry abou Jimbos taking pollution controls *off* their generator,.. to save a few dollars. you know it would happen Also, I don't want a generator running in my garage at night..pyew.. nor out back. I certainly dont want my neighbors running them... i wonder how happy people would be happy when one of the muffers starts to go. Man.. now i have to go bother to fill up gas cans again.. i thought that was a reason to buy this stupid air-car in the first place. Of course.. these vehicle.. if existed.. would not be everything to everyone. No current car is now, why do potential alternatives have to be. EV.. etc.. Someone complained what if i have to drive 100 miles or something.. use a second car.. or rent one. If you have to do it every week.. buy a different car. Message: 4 Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:54:13 -0500 From: Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Taxed To DEATH - AirCar You need to take into account the efficiency losses: Hydro/Nuclear/solar/wind/etc Electric generator - transmission lines - electric motor - mechanical air compressor - pipes - air motor - mechanical transmission - rubber wheels I don't know how efficient this would be, but I'm guessing below 4% (if my guess makes a difference) It could be made better if you used an internal combustion generator, but you still have a lot of conversions: Crops - oil/alcohol - IC engine - mechanical air compressor ... etc Crops would include energy used to plant and maintain the crop as well. I guess the above process would be about the same with a hydrocarbon fuel. However if you're going to use an IC engine anyway, what's wrong with an IC/electric hybrid? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To
Re: [biofuel] air car
It's a follow up on your topic on energy storage. Instead of battery, power generates from Solar or Wind can be transformed to Hydrogen or compressed air for later use. Either for air car, water car or home appliances. Didn't get involved in emmission, but safety will need to be supervised. Hydrogen and pure Oxygen are dangerous! I'd learned this is a group discussion, not that we pick on one particular person or subject. Take it easy, your discussion is interesting and just added some of my comments. Different participants have different styles, that is okay with me! Hope that my style is okay to you!! Normally never address to one particular person in sending comments. Sorry about you felt that I had been pinpointed your talk and that was not the case! And certainly had found out South California Edison is not our mutual friend! - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:18 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] air car I am afraid that i don't see what all this has to do with what i said. I was talking about the potential benefits of a car that could run on the energy stored overnight by compressing air. My example was of solar panels on a roof either directly running a compressor. I suppose maybe you are talking about how i prefer to have one power plant running power instead of 1000 people running generators. I am talking about the emmissions end of it. 1000 people running generators because they want to stick it to the power company however evil they are is not a good thing, emissions wise. If you want to run solar, or wind or hydro, thats all good, even run a nice Capstone Turbine for the neighborhood if you all want to... but not 1,000 guys with 300 dollar gensets.. pleeze. ..dont know what an air car has to do with the Mid East.. Message: 7 Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:46:16 -0800 From: Tricia Liu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: air car In the future, Solar or wind to generate electricity at home. Either to produce Hydrogen or Compressed air. They run not only the cars but your home appliances/lighting and everything else! President Clinton called that decentralized energy policy, no need to depend on big oil or energy companies! Right now, we can not live without the oil and energy companies. All energy production is highly centralized in those big companies, they get to swing the policy! Edison did that in California, and everybody can see how that happened. You pay up or I cut you off power supply! Energy shortage? Friend in Arizona tried to set up a facility to use solar panels to generate power and sell for money. The best price he could find to sell those electricity is 1 cents per watt. And in Southern California, we are paying 11 cents for business and 13 cents for residential. From Edison's self deceiving commercials on TV, they are still claiming they are serving Californian! Other states even offered help to sell electricity from their power supply to California, none taken! Being screwed by your own power company! And still have to keep their services after they had done all these! Spineless human! If Bush's energy department has the same like-minded focus as this discussion group. At least there will have several projects that can work on. To find out the best energy solution, Biddiesel, Hydrogen etc.. But you can see it's not happening and that probably not what the big energy companies want the president to do. Al Gore mentioned that instead of using the momentum gathered after- the 911 attack to urge American to conserve energy or use other alternative energy. They decided to use that momentum to support more military deployment in the Middle East! - Original Message - From: Crabb, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] air car I am sure the transmission loss factor vs gas formulation cost has been beaten to death in other discussions of EVs. But just to make is more simple. assume your Solar panel is sitting on your roof. there wont be too much of a transmission losses. so all day long, you can compress air in a tank at home. when you get home, you can transfer this to your car slowly overnight, adding more if needed overnight cheaply. I suppose you could add a bank of batteries at home, instead of a an air tank. But then you would lose 10% getting the juice into the batteries and 10% getting it out. I would rather have one powerplant with one pollution source.. than have 1,000 guys at home with generators. New pollution control technology only has to happen once.. not 1,000 times. I also wouldnt have to worry abou Jimbos taking pollution
Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50%
Check out IKEA! Better price than Costco! - Original Message - From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:22 AM Subject: Re: CFL incandescent bulbs -- was: [biofuel] RE:californians 50% I just recently got a pack of 5 CF 60W replacements (twist type) at Costco for ~$9, which would mean they're about $2 bucks a pop. Not bad methinnks. They also had a 3 pack of 100W replactments for the same. What I am still searching for is a good priced Full Spectrum 100W replacement CF. They are quite expensive right now at ~$20 a pop. Don't want to get SAD in the wintertime. James Slayden On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, MH wrote: Mark wrote: CF bulb prices are plummeting. 3 for $10 at home depot The last time I looked was last year about this time. Darn, thats a good price!!! I heard last year the next generation CFL bulbs where coming out thus explaining the plummeting prices I'd guess. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT HGTV Dream Home Giveaway Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] American Ship of State has been hi-jacked
We dont have a good energy policy, and local government are not all properly trained. Innovation vs. Realtiy Our solar carport had a big setback in a public hearing, not from the people. Participants all agreed and even expressed their support and willingness to follow suit if they could see the first solar project built in their city. The nays are from the city planning department, 4 commisioners didn't like to have gas station or carport pops up with solar system. And no matter we are going to sell BioDiesel at pumps and electric station for EV. They do not realize the importance to build more facilities to provide alternative energy. One of them said if we mentioned about how supportive Santa Monica City is, he is going to throw up! We are proposing to use Galvanized Steel for the structure and these people who never built any solar related projects told us to paint it red to match the main building. And add stucco to make it look nicer, it's their athestically or professionally decision. For the city planners. They are the watchdogs for the city etc. For the builder, Solar system must operate in cool temperature and the galvanized silver gray of the steel structure is reflective and can fend off excessive heat. Not the red or royal paint which trapped the heat. Their request is going to do harm or decrease the efficiency/performance of the solar panels. And the prepainted steel get rusty or unsightly in a few year, and need a lot of maintainces! Galvanized steel can last for at least 10 years! One lady thinks the solar roof is not a pretty sight for the city, so they want the post red and they want those decorative stucco. we have this cantilevers single-Post carport, the columns are supporting the entire roof and solar system. And they want us to use the same decorative pipe + stucco ? Those decorative columns which they asked us to copy from. They are decorative column for the front corridor. You stunned at hearing people telling you are ruining the landscape or making unwanted proposals. GAPs! Even in the same meeting hall, you can find the stubborn unti-progress or anti-new technology officials. Who declared they are for the people, by the people to deny the plan, unless we paint it red and adding stucco. If you had experiences on solar system, then maybe we won't have such a hard time. Because they didn't have any in either Solar or Bio-Diesel, they decided to make a big noice on the color and presentation of the structure. A simple steel structure is a simple structure, so we want to make it a prefabricated simple structure to save money. So what? The solar panels are still very expensive, to make it available. We have to make it a rust-resistance and a solid structure. But again, that is the government! Those people who are not interested in alternative energy are in power, we will have to fight and appeal to the city council. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 1:52 PM Subject: [biofuel] American Ship of State has been hi-jacked --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, studio53 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd have to agree wholeheartedly. I love this country like I love life, but the original idea was for government to serve the people, taking on a background role. Now, the government is a business like any other corporation, except it's a poorly run disgrace controlling and directing everyone's lives. It is a criminal enterprise. The original premise was that the People have inalienable Rights to Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness. Government was instituted to protect those Rights from infringements, using a very limitted range of Authorities. Current occupants of elected Offices are working well outside of their legal Authorities. Now that we have both expressed dissident views on an International list, can you make a prediction as to how long it will take for the Storm Troopers to break down our doors and spirit us away? According to the Homeland Security Act, we are now terrorists, and can be held indefinitely without charges ever being filed against us. We just lost our Right to a Trial by Jury, and to be able to question Witnesses against us. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note
Fiber of the future available today! Kenaf is a 4,000 year old NEW crop with roots in ancient Africa. A member of the hibiscus family (Hibiscus cannabinus L), it is related to cotton and okra, and grows well in many parts of the U.S. It offers a way to make paper without cutting trees. Kenaf grows quickly,rising to heights of 12-14 feet in as little as 4 to 5 months. U.S. Department of Agriculture studies show that kenaf yields of 6 to 10 tons of dry fiber per acre per year are generally 3 to 5 times greater than the yield for Southern pine trees, which can take from 7 to 40 years to reach harvestable size... More details http://www.greenla.com/recycling/index.htm - Original Message - From: Kenneth Kron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Interesting Customer perception note Sounds to me like the one that got away, I don't hear this kind of thinking very much and I'd say your customer has a weak or non-existent science background so I wouldn't try to approach it from a scientific point of view. I would tell them it was a very intersesting perspective that you had not thought of before and ask them how they came to that conclusion? The closest analogy I can think of would be the recycling analogy. Would they think it would make more sense to store used paper in a warehouse and cut down new trees to make paper? There's probably a better analogy out there...\ kk James Slayden wrote: Hola, In talking with someone recently who is interested in purchasing some biodiesel, and interesting comment came up in our email exchange. He indicated that he was more interested in biodiesel made from crude VO than that made of WVO. I was trying to convince him that the WVO option was better due to the recyclable nature of the WVO, but he insisted that the CO sequestering was better of the more recent growing cycle. I had a difficult time convincing him that it was the same but oh well. He didn't even care about the GMO feedstock issue!! I guess what this leaves me with is a customer perception problem of crude VO vs. WVO based biodiesel. I am wondering why that perception issue exists and how to overcome it in talking w/ people who are not biodiesel geeks. I know that most of the folks at the Berkley BD Co-op are religiously pro-WVO BD and will absolutely not put GMO-VO biodiesel in their vehicles. So there is the dichotomy in interest of the different feedstocks for biodiesel. Any thoughts? James Slayden Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
not have absolutely pure hydrogen, the membranes become contaminated and are destroyed, so it is better to use hydrocarbon as a feed stock to a fuel cell that does not have a membrane...like the solid oxide Global Thermoelectric, or the molten carbonate type like Fuel Cell Energy (mentioned above for the neighborhood size power plants). - Original Message - From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH There is a discussion group for the air car here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ I've always thought it was an interesting concept and I try to keep my eye on it, though they have not impressed me as really making progress yet in business. Perhaps they will yet. Their business model seems to be to franchise out their idea in some way. I'm not a fan of that. The air car was mentioned a few years ago in relation to trying to help Mexico City cure some of its air pollution problems (i.e., zero non-air emissions at the vehicle). As to the derivations of petroleum, I guess there could be some debate, but anyway, I just tend to think of all bio and other fuels outside of ground-sourced as synthetic insofar as they're made by man taking action to do some chemistry. On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 11:20:12 -0500 (EST), you wrote: Hmm. If you run a car on compressed air, does it not take energy to compress it? What do you run the compressor on? Gasoline? Also, if fossil fuel is from dinosaurs, is it not already bio fuel? There are those who say however that petroleum is primordial and that it was created with the Earth itself. Do we really know the origin of petroleum? Damian Anderson On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) wrote: $1.67 a GALLON??? You are having a laugh...no actually the British government is having a laugh, we pay that per litre ...and they still won't support biodiesel production. The idea of moving to Denmark seems more attractive every day!!! Sorry...never heard of the Air Car...though it sounds cool. You have to remember that in the UK we are severely behind the times, and I mean SEVERELY. Diesel IS cheaper in Europe, everywhere except the UK (about 50 cents/litre cheaper), and in France they use 100% biodiesel in 50% of their pumps, and the rest it's a 25%bio/75%dino mix. When you think of the amount of traditional English 'Fish Chips' shops in the UK, it would make so much sense to convert to bio. One of our largest chain of supermarkets is now using biodiesel to power its fleet of trucks, making biodiesel from the 100,000 litres/week of waste cooking oil they produce in their canteens...at least someone is doing something positive. Nick Tricia Liu wrote: Luckily we don't have to pay tax here in California for Bio-Diesel. Mixed fuel less than certain amount, no need to pay tax. I was told that the reason only 1% American drives Diesel car is because the Diesel is $1.67/gallon while gasoline is $1.60/gallon. And not available in all gas stations. But in Europe, Diesel is far more cheaper than Gasoline for about how much cheaper? 32% European drives Diesel and French is 68%? And I had heard about French invention www.theaircar.com Can you find this car running around in Europe yet? 68MPH, runs 168miles per charge. Cost $6700($6800 Euro), retails probably $10,000? Compressed air, recharge cost $3 and takes 3 minutes from a station. If you bought a compressor at home, charge takes 40 minutes and electricty or solar is required. We have LA auto show, Anahein Auto show. Every other European car manufacturers were here, but not the air car? They are not marketable yet or what? If you heard anything, please let me know. I'm dying to get an air car if I could. See the renewable air, compressed to sub -300 degree and stayed frozen liquid form. Then heat it up, release cool air for the passengers and the only emission will be still air. No pollution at all. Actually the released air is even cleaner than the smogged air we are breathing right now, no thanks to the gasoline cars. Killing us slowing and makes us worry half to death. The knowledge of the pollution, global warming is worst than hacking/coughing from the dirty air. California had won the title for being the poorest air quality city in USA for 3 years in a roll, nobody can help us. Unlike New York, everybody drives in California. Keep on breaking record then, what else can we do! I have to breath, dirty or not! SymmetryCo/Go-Electric-Store Tricia Liu 801, South Raymond Ave., $36 Palm-Mission Industrial Park Alhambra, CA.91803-1545 Phone: 1-626-642-1038 Fax: 1-626-628-3903 Cell: 1-626-536-4850 - Original Message - From: Nick
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
When UK and Sweden can join the Euro system, it pegs to the American Dollars. So we all have easier time for price reference! - Original Message - From: Ken Basterfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH A minor point, the Uk duty on biodiesel is 28.6 pence ( rebated by 20 pence of the standard dino d duty rate of 48.6 pence per litre) I make it that 28.6 pence is about 46 cents unless the dollar / pound exchange rate has suddenly gone mad. Ellis and Everard can supply methanol at £205.00 per 45 gallon barrel Ken - Original Message - From: Nick Taylor (SMTechnology.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:31 AM Subject: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH Hi Guys, Just thought I would let you know what the British government is doing to support Biodieselabsolutely nothing!! Currently here, we are paying silly amounts for our fuel, on average $1.30 (USD) for a litre of dino-diesel and $1.27 for unleaded. Therefore making your own fuel is an attractive ideabut there is one problem...as its cheaper to make, the government does not get its slice of the tax (to pay for their gas guzzling auto's!)..therefore they don't encourage anyone to mass produce. As an example, my company has applied for a licence to make its own biodiesel for our 4 VW Caddy vans. Not a problem we were told by Customs and Exciseas long as you pay the government $0.76 in tax per litre used alone!. Once you add that to the cost of small scale production, its going to cost us more than to use dino-diesel.we are forced to use dino-diesel, and they still get their money. I'm embarrassed that the UK is so far behind everyone else in Europe...after spending 4 months in Sweden last year, I realised that the UK is a dinosaur itself, stuck in the industrial revolution of 100 years ago (we are still struggling with broadband internet outside of the big cities!!!). ..But don't worry folks...I'm going to be running my van on biodiesel once I've got the hang of making it!! Stuff the government! If anyone is interested, here's what's in the news in the UK: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/england/1750734.stm One last thing...is there anyone in this group from the South West of England that can recommend a good methanol supplier??? Nick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
Even the gasoline price is cheaper here than in Europe, there are hidden costs! Must free the hands of the decision makers to commit more military involvement in Middle East. Besides the $32/barrel we are paying for the crude, according the national accounting office. Adding the cost of the military build up to protect the oil resources, the final price tag is $126/barrel. When you go to gas stations, you are paying more than the price. Some other tax money had slipped out of your pockets and go to the middle east. Besides the evil master Bin Laden said he vows get American Air bases out of Saudi Arabia. If we do not need that many oil, maybe we can finally give him what he wants. Corn oil or other types of renewable energy is like Green Gold at home, why bother to tap on somebody's pots of Black Gold. Removing Iraqi leader is not the only solution, we are paying the money for these unstable leaders to buy weapons of mass destruction. You fight him then pay for his oil, you give him the money to kick you back. Drain his financial resources, then maybe we do need those weapon inspection or waging a war. It's all our money that is buying gasoline that sustains this strong man in Iraq! We create our own monster! Brave men and women out there to protect oil resources, just because we need that many! If we could stop dependence on imported oil, those brave soldiers can come home to their loved ones. Blood will be on our hands, should find a way to switch to BioDiesel or other transportation! It's better than just yelling anti-war slogans, the government must maintain presence in Middle East. Unless we don't need that many oil, then we are the guilty ones! - Original Message - From: Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH I was in Costco over the weekend and looked at the price of corn oil. It was about $3.20 a gallon. If nature, or nature's God, has provided us with a vast supply of naturally occurring petroleum, it seems like it does not make economic sense to make bio fuels, even if you had no tax at all. Even with the tax, gasoline is only $1.50 a gallon, and that is in the middle of a crisis of the world oil supply because of the prospect of another Gulf War and also the political crisis in Venezuela. So, if there were no tax on gasoline, or a lot less, it would be even more favorable than biofuels. It does not seem to make sense to do the chemistry yourself when it has already been done for you, and there are vast untapped resources of it sitting in the ground. If we ever run out of petroleum, we can always still grow corn and turn it into corn oil or alcohol to burn. But for now, both are economically a bad idea. It is analagous to turning lead into gold. It can be done today with our knowledge of nuclear physics, but the cost of doing so is more than the market price of gold. Why make gold when there is an abundant supply sitting in the ground just waiting to be mined? There is virtue in not being dependant on Middle Eastern oil, mostly because it is foolish to tie our national economy, and hence its security, to a region of the world devoid of democracy and social justice, where most of the countries are backward dictatorships. Even our friends the Saudis, are a backward corrupt dictatorship. Damian Anderson On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, murdoch wrote: There is a discussion group for the air car here: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mdiaircar/ I've always thought it was an interesting concept and I try to keep my eye on it, though they have not impressed me as really making progress yet in business. Perhaps they will yet. Their business model seems to be to franchise out their idea in some way. I'm not a fan of that. The air car was mentioned a few years ago in relation to trying to help Mexico City cure some of its air pollution problems (i.e., zero non-air emissions at the vehicle). As to the derivations of petroleum, I guess there could be some debate, but anyway, I just tend to think of all bio and other fuels outside of ground-sourced as synthetic insofar as they're made by man taking action to do some chemistry. -- Damian J. Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.unification.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to:
Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH
It's maybe the Bush administration's revitalizing economy plan, by bring in cheaper crude oil. The oil companies can keep their profit margin or even higher. And the consumers will be happy to have cheaper gasoline, and can give some incentives and revitalize the economy! It seem to be a win-win solution. But there are hidden costs again, military expenses and somebody will have to die or get hurt! The military or civilian of both infight nations, probably more on Iraqi side! Bombing is planned and as other wars, warning Bagdad residents to leave will be issued! People still will die then their family or friends will be the next suicide bombers, the cycle will go on and on! But if the Iraqi really has weapons of mass destruction, military action is the short term solution. Stop driving gasoline cars is the long term solution. But there is no energy policy from the government? When you need government, they are not there! We need a market stardard for EV! Even in the very small EV world, Toyota/Honda/GM/Fords all have their own chargers. If we are going to build that electric station, guess how many different kinds of chargers will be needed for one station? 5 of them! Toyota/Honda/GM/Fords require 220V and Gem is 110V, then you can be qualified to open an electric station. They said they tested and decided to take Ford's charger as industrial standard, but that is so many steps behind the EV sales. Same as the BioDiesel industry, need standard and incentive to make conversion. There are famer states that need to sell their corns, anybody is helping them? Why only the oil companies get all the attention? Bio-Diesel or Ethanol will be a good replacement if the government is promoting them, creating more jobs for American famers and Diesel car sellers or relative business. When you need the government to make some plans to promote alternative energy, you find out they are too busy for war! - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Taxed To DEATH Speaking petroleum prices some USA radio programs were mentioning the Iraq crude would cost about $1 USD per barrel to pump from the Iraq oil fields averaging 600 metres below the surface. If true that would make some US/UK petroleum companies happy (particularly Exxon, Chevron and BP, Shell) but it would make China, France and Russia even happier if they get the opportunity referring to the profit margin. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] BioDiesel
Dear sirs: Clean Diesel engines power 37% of all new cars sold in Europe (62% in France), with the share predicted to rise to 45% by 2005 -- but fewer than 1% of new American cars have diesel engines. We are going to Iraq to get their Black Gold, but in reality we have more than enough renewable Green Gold back home??? We can probably export some of these renewable Green Energy to poorer countries that can not afford oil or gasoline. To help those African or Third World countries, so nobody is so poor or could not find a job. The only thing he can do is to join the terrorist and use a rifle instead of his working tools.(True testament from an Afghanistan solider who went back to Kabul to find job and later went back to fight for Al Queda, he could not find a decent job to support his family. fighting is the only thing he could find to feed himself) Following website, you can find all available cars. Ford Focus has diesel engine version but only on sale in Europe. American has a notion that all Diesel are dirty, but there are clean Diesel. Low emission, 78MPG - 239MPG And BioDiesel if you are making them at home, it's only 54 cents per gallon(The initial equipment for small quantity production is $700). BioDiesel is from recycling cooking oil(From fast food Chain, after deep fried your potato ships or use corns) http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_future.html For more website: www.veggievan.com www.creasecar.com In Thailand, they are using Coconut oil to power their cars. It will be an alternative fuel for big truck/pick up that runs long distance. We recently receive a possible job on a solar system for a gas station and by coincident, we will probably able to use the pumps to sell biodiesel. And use the parking lot to build solar carport then use as electric stations to power EV. Solar from the sun, Hydrogen from the water, Heat up compressed air (www.theaircar.com) and BioDiesel are all clean and renewable energy! Comment freely! Go-Electric-Store Thanks for reading, No need to reply this email! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
