Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Philippe Verdy]

Eh bien si, les noms viennent soit de FANTOIR soit du cadastre (plus précis
en terme de localisation, car en fin de compte c'est l'origine du nom, le
FANTOIR a été créé surtout comme une copie au départ, maintenant on se
demande si les communes travaillent d'abord sur leur SIG, mettent à jour le
FANTOIR et ensuite vont bien remettre à jour le cadastre, ce n'est pas
toujours synchronisé (et les retards cumulés pour la vectorisation du
cadastre puis sa reprise maintenant dans les SIG des métropoles fait que ça
se passe à plusieurs niveaux et les secrétaires de mairies n'ont pas tous
le temps de tout suivre et ont encore du mal avec les nouveaux outils
informatiques qui changent sans arrêt de délégation et de services pour les
coordonner). Je pense que pour beaucou pde communes elles se servent encore
de leur cadastre historique même s'il n'est plus au gout de leur EPCI. Je
pense que beaucoup gèrent encore ça sous forme de courier administratifs,
de mails, ou de documents Word (et qu'il doit en rester qui utilisent
encore des fax avec toutes les erreurs de transcription qui peuvent arriver
sur ce support pas toujours très lisible).

Le 3 juillet 2018 à 22:57,  a écrit :

> Effectivement je suis parti des points notés par Marc.
>
> Sur les exemples originaux, c'est pire : après construction de l'échangeur
> et alors que le hameau du Gué Mary existe, ajouter un "Le Gué Mary" sur
> l'échangeur n'a aucun sens d'autant que le cadastre l'indique... là où
> tu situes "Les Écotayes", qui ne figure pas non plus sur le cadastre.
>
> Sans parler du Les Écotayes
>  situé sur un échangeur et
> ne correspondant pas à une référence FANTOIR existante...
>
> Reproduite bêtement FANTOIR c'est le FOUTOIR assuré.
>
> Jean-Yvon
>
> Le 03/07/2018 à 22:09, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
>
> tu t'es concentré sur 2 points mais les graphies de leiux-dits voisins
> diffèrent bien. C'est toi qui a choisi ces deux points mais initialement
> cela ne portait même pas sur ceux-là.
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-ja] ローマ字

[tomoya muramoto]

＞「name:ja-Hira」と「name:ja-Latn」は同じ情報を伝えませんか。
その通りです。基本的にはどちらかだけで問題ないと思います。

＞そして、nameの漢字を知らなければ、どうしますか。たとえば、「Kaisei」はビルに大きく貼ってありますが、その言葉の漢字は知りません。もしかしたら漢字がないかな。その場合、「name=Kaisei」もいいですか。それとも、「name:ja-Latn=Kaisei」（「name」なし）の方がいいですか。

nameタグについて、厳密なルールはありません。

(1)私個人の考え
osm wikiには、"Note that OSM follows On the Ground Rule. Names recorded in
name=* tag are ones that are locally used, especially ones typically
signposted"とあります。
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name

ですので、店の看板に"Denny's"と記載されているのであれば、`name=Denny's`が良いと考えます。
この場合は、
name=Denny's
name:ja=デニーズ
でしょうか。

(2)日本コミュニティのガイドライン
レオ様が提示されたように、日本のチェーン店に関しては、実例が列挙されています。
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:Naming_sample
このガイドラインに従えば、`name=デニーズ` となります。

私としては、表記ゆれはある程度仕方ないのでどちらも許容されるかなぁと思っています。

ご参考まで

muramoto
___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Gros travail pour mettre à jour les mobilités régionales en France

[lenny.libre]

Le 01/07/2018 à 19:06, Christian Rogel a écrit :
En tout, 8 modes de mobiliité possibles, 



mettre à jour le wiki OSM où on peut inciter à répartir le
travail, pas seulement en le complétant et notant les avancements,
mais en migrant les pages de réseaux départementaux sous l’intitulé
WikiProject France et en en créant d’autres


Peut-être l'occasion de mettre un peu d'ordre. en profiter pour 
réorganiser les pages existantes ? certaines pages ont des différences 
de titrage, mais cela doit-être très difficile à modifier il me semble 
que quand on renomme, il crée un lien vers la nouvelle page (enfin un 
peu ésotérique pour moi) on trouve des :

France:Ain/Transports en commun
France:Ain/car.ain.fr
Alpes-de-Haute-Provence/Transports en commun
Lignes de bus Agglo Aubagne
WikiProject France/Bus Apolo7
LER PACA
Pays d'Aix Mobilité/Transports en commun
Valence/Transports publics

Les catégories fonctionnent-elles ? Quels sont Les 8 modes de mobilité ?

Par contre il faut se hâter lentement avant de migrer les réseaux 
départementaux (La mise en place du réseau va s’étaler sur au moins 3 
ans) : voici la réponse que j'ai eu en posant la question au conseil 
départemental :
"Dans Réseau des cars Arc-en-Ciel - Conseil départemental vous à répondu 
le 30 juin 2018 à 13:36 -
Bonjour, Le Département continue d’assurer les services de transports 
interurbains en lieu et place de la Région Occitanie dans le cadre d’une 
délégation. En Haute-Garonne, ce sont donc toujours des bus Arc-en-Ciel 
qui vont continuer de circuler. Cordialement"


Et en consultant le site liO, on peut voir que tous les départements ne 
sont pas à la même enseigne, sur la Haute-Garonne il est bien indiqué 
"Le Département de la Haute-Garonne continue d’assurer les services de 
transports interurbains en lieu et place de la Région Occitanie dans le 
cadre d’une prolongation de délégation." de même pour les transports 
scolaires.


Petite remarque de forme : voir les convention de nommage des pages 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Directives_du_wiki#Titres_-_Convention_de_nommage_des_pages

concernant "WikiProject"


Le 01/07/2018 à 19:18, Vincent Privat a écrit :
ça en est où l'obligation de l'open data pour les transports ? Le site 
de liO pour l'Occitanie n'en fait aucune mention :(


rien vu non plus (Haute-Garonne a le sien, je ne sais pas pour les autres)

Le 01/07/2018 à 22:21, Christian Rogel a écrit :

Sur le site GeoBretagne, des données départementales comme celles des arrêts 
que j’ai utilisées, mais ils doivent souvent être déplacés de quelques mètres 
grâce à l’ortho.


pareil pour la Haute-Garonne

Le 01/07/2018 à 22:50, deuzeffe a écrit :
Peut-être faudra-t-il passer par des ae (déjà pour virer 
network et operator des bus_stop, si je me souviens bien des conventions 
PTv2).


mais pas sur les platform, (tous les arrêts ne sont pas encore raccordés 
à des routes) je me sert de network quand je veux créer quelques arrêts, 
je compare les arrêts de l'opendata, que je compare à ceux d'osm avec le 
bon network, puis je prend une poignée d'arrêts qui ne sont pas encore 
dans osm et je vais les créer


Le 02/07/2018 à 19:48, Christian Rogel a écrit :
Pour faciliter les futures mises à jour, j’ai mis en tête de la page du 
wiki OSM listant (très partiellement) les transports collectifs en 
France une liste des nouvelles (ou anciennes) régions où on peut mettre, 
et le nouveau nom du réseau (s’il existe) et les anciens réseaux de cars 
départementaux (ceux que j’ai cherchés).


Question de forme, pourquoi le mettre en tête de page et non répartis 
sur chaque région ? c'est plus facile à créer, mais avec le temps ce 
sera, je pense, moins facile à utiliser : si je veux ma région, je dois 
me déplacer en deux endroits.
Si tu veux, je peux le répartir ; j'avais déjà modifié les précédentes 
versions du document pour prendre en compte les nouvelles régions et 
certaines ont les liens pour les anciens réseaux départementaux, cela 
évitera de les recopier.


cordialement

Leni

___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

[Talk-cz] amenity=college vs. amenity=school

[Jan Macura]

Ahoj,

začal jsem měnit amenity=college na amenity=school u středních škol,
gymnázií a středních učilišť, protože to tak říká wiki. Těch chybných
značení je ale tolik, že se radši ptám, nemáme-li zavedeno nějaké ryze
české specifikum v tagování.
Zatím jsem projel západní Čechy.

Díky
 H.
___
Talk-cz mailing list
Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Jérôme Amagat]

L’intégration des lieux dits du cadastre est une belle connerie...
en témoigne toutes les localités appelées "Le Bourg" :
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/A3a

Le mar. 3 juil. 2018 à 19:26, djakk djakk  a écrit :

> Salut !
>
> Question : ça vous semble logique un lieu-dit sur une 2*2 voies ou en
> doublon ? Moi pas :P
> Philippe Verdi les a ajouté parce que présents dans Fantoir ou dans le
> cadastre. Pour moi c’est de l’administratif périmé qui n’a pas sa place
> dans osm ...
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.15532/-1.70208
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.14205/-1.69846
>
>
>
> djakk
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Mateusz Konieczny]

3. Lipiec 2018 21:53 od f...@zz.de :


> IMHO fixing problems in the data always start with fixing the cause
> why they are added in the first place. Otherwise you fix the current
> state but errors start beeing added the minute you think you are "done".
>




That is one of motivation for this edit. Mappers learn by (among other

methods) by looking at  currently mapped objects.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-us] named links

[Paul Johnson]

This summarizes the approach I take towards this in regards to named or
reffed links.

At least until we start consistently expecting tags on entities to apply to
those entities instead of a completely different entity.  Adding ref to
ways instead of the relation that describes the route is redundant at best
and making editing and rendering support worse.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 12:34 Evin Fairchild  wrote:

> There are some cases where naming link roads makes sense. For example, I
> tag the roads coming out of roundabouts as link roads (especially if it's
> something like a residential road intersecting, a note important road like
> a secondary road, and I tag the slip roads for that leg of the roundabout
> as secondary_link), and it is pretty helpful for routing purposes to name
> the link roads in that case. Also helpful if the link roads represent a
> RIRO (right-in, right-out) intersection.
>
> -Evin (compdude)
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 9:28 AM OSM Volunteer stevea <
> stevea...@softworkers.com> wrote:
>
>> While I don't have "a dog in this fight," I also read our wiki which says
>> "Link roads NORMALLY do not have names."  (Emphasis mine).  In the unusual
>> (abnormal?) cases where they do (and I trust Paul wouldn't have added them
>> unless they do), there is no contradiction with our wiki, rather an unusual
>> case which isn't "normal."  In my opinion, that's OK.
>>
>> We should follow what our wiki says, in this case it leave a bit of
>> "wiggle room" to name a link road.  Paul has named some link roads where it
>> appears they do have such names in the real world, and I see no
>> inconsistency.
>>
>> Sometimes a datum in OSM will LACK all the tags it should, because some
>> are not known.  That's not great, but it's OK:  mappers who come along
>> later can add these (and improve this and other features in our map), this
>> is called "growing our map."  Sometimes an ADDITIONAL datum exists in the
>> real world and is added to a feature even when this is unusual (though not
>> incorrect) as many other similar data do not have this additional datum.
>> That's OK; I see no inconsistency.
>>
>> Our wiki strives to hit the sweet spot of accommodating what is in the
>> real world and how we should tag such data in our map.  It is a guide, not
>> absolutely strict doctrine.  I say this because we have "plastic tagging"
>> that encourages us to tag accurately while allowing flexibility.
>> Especially in early versions, we may not always write our wiki as 100%
>> correct, and so wikis grow, change and evolve to accomplish this.  If the
>> wiki needs updating to note that unusually, but in certain parts of the
>> world, link roads sometimes get names, I encourage you to update it:  we'll
>> all benefit.
>>
>> Writing/contributing to wiki is easy, though it can be tricky:  you want
>> to channel consensus without being too strictly doctrinaire in a direction
>> which would hobble contributions or just plain encourage/teach others to
>> enter them wrongly.  It is meant to guide us, not preach to us as an
>> absolute.  Where it is wrong, or one or more believe it wrong or
>> out-of-date with real world data, please use the Discussion page built into
>> each wiki to discuss with others any potential changes to existing wiki.
>> The "right thing" (better written wiki) usually happens soon after such
>> discussion.
>>
>> SteveA
>> California
>> OSM Volunteer since 2009 and serious contributor to not only our map's
>> data, but our wiki, too
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[osm . sanspourriel]

Effectivement je suis parti des points notés par Marc.

Sur les exemples originaux, c'est pire : après construction de 
l'échangeur et alors que le hameau du Gué Mary existe, ajouter un "Le 
Gué Mary" sur l'échangeur n'a aucun sens d'autant que le cadastre 
l'indique... là où tu situes "Les Écotayes", qui ne figure pas non plus 
sur le cadastre.


Sans parler du Les Écotayes 
 situé sur un échangeur 
et ne correspondant pas à une référence FANTOIR existante...


Reproduite bêtement FANTOIR c'est le FOUTOIR assuré.

Jean-Yvon


Le 03/07/2018 à 22:09, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
tu t'es concentré sur 2 points mais les graphies de leiux-dits voisins 
diffèrent bien. C'est toi qui a choisi ces deux points mais 
initialement cela ne portait même pas sur ceux-là.




___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [Talk-it] Parcheggio su copertura di fabbricato

[liste_girarsi]

Carlo, ma sei ve o sei spam?

hai una foto di questo edificio parcheggio? 

--simone girardelli--
##
Inviato dal mio dispositivo Android con K-9 Mail. Perdonate la brevità.

___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Maarten Deen]

On 2018-07-03 22:07, Tobias Knerr wrote:

On 03.07.2018 10:28, Frederik Ramm wrote:



Software should be able to deal with both.


In my opinion, software should not _need_ to deal with both. Working
around easily fixed database quality issues is a waste of time.


Good softwaredesign dictates "Be conservative in what you do, be liberal 
in what you accept from others". Calling that a waste of time is IMHO 
not a good standpoint.
Especially since in this case you do not fix anything. As said many 
times, anyone can add a FIXME tag to the data and then you would again 
overlook it. Until the next automated edit comes around and "fixes" the 
FIXME tags.


Regards,
Maarten

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[deuzeffe]

On 03/07/2018 20:24, Philippe Verdy wrote:
Encore une fois l'orthographe vient du cadastre. 


Qui contient plein d'erreurs dues à la retranscription manuelle (oui, 
oui) des données FANTOIR. Ou qui retranscrit fidèlement des données 
FANTOIR erronées. Quelques fois, l'IGN a des données plus justes 
(corrections par relevés terrain).


--
deuzeffe, qui essaie de convaincre sa commune de faire rectifier les 
dites erreurs.


___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Philippe Verdy]

tu t'es concentré sur 2 points mais les graphies de leiux-dits voisins
diffèrent bien. C'est toi qui a choisi ces deux points mais initialement
cela ne portait même pas sur ceux-là.

Le 3 juillet 2018 à 21:50,  a écrit :

> Le 03/07/2018 à 21:21, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
>
> Je ne fais pas d'hypothèse, quand une commune mentionne partout la même
> orthographe et la voisine utilise systématiquement l'autre et que ça
> concerne des terrains qui sont à chacune d'elle, (...)
>
> Ici on parle de Pré de *La Mar(r)e* à côté de *La Mare*.
> Le/les prés est/sont/serait sur les communes de Montgermont et de
> *Saint-Grégoire*
> Le hameau sur *Saint Grégoire*.
>
> Le Cadastre comme les cartes consultées (Cassini, IGN...) ne mentionnent
> pas de "Pré de la Marre".
>
> On N'est PAS dans le cas où deux communes utilisent systématiquement leur
> propre graphie.
>
> Merci de nous passer les indices autres que Fantoir indiquant un "Pré de
> la Marre"
>
>
>
>
>> Le 03/07/2018 à 20:25, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
>>
>> Maintenant si vous pensez que c'est une erreur, signalez-le aux communes,
>> mais tant qu'elles ne changent pas ou n'annulent pas un nom, il n'y a
>> aucune raison que ce soit nous qui le fassions.
>>
>> Le 3 juillet 2018 à 20:17,  a écrit :
>>
>>> Et ça ne vous dérange pas d'écrire Marre avec deux R alors que le
>>> lieu-dit à côté a classiquement un seul r ?
>>>
>>> Vérifié sur le terrain ?
>>>
>>> 35189B285F 
>>> PRE DE LA MARRE (Montgermont)
>>>
>>> 35278B633X 
>>> PRE DE LA MARRE (Saint-Grégoire).
>>> à côté de : 35278B503FLA MARE
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 03/07/2018 à 19:47, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
>>>
>>> Ce n'est pas un doublon, c'est un lieu dit FANTOIR qui existe sous deux
>>> noms légèrement différents entre deux communes
>>>
>>> Quelle différence entre PRE DE LA MARRE et PRE DE LA MARRE?
>>>
>>> Jean-Yvon
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-fr mailing list
>>> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-fr mailing 
>> listTalk-fr@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-fr mailing list
>> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing 
> listTalk-fr@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Tobias Knerr]

On 03.07.2018 10:28, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Don't forget that new FIXMEs will continue to appear all the time.

They will, but at a lower rate. Mappers often look at existing tagging
to find out how things should be tagged. This is further reinforced by
tools such as JOSM's autocompletion. Thus, I believe the current dataset
should always be as.clean as possible in order to set a good example.

Mostly eliminating the FIXME spelling now (instead of waiting for it to
disappear naturally over the next decade) will also allow us to simplify
the wiki documentation a little bit, get rid of special cases in tools
and so on. That may only be a small benefit, but it's the sum of all
these small exceptions, duplications and special cases that make
learning the OSM data model unnecessarily hard for mappers and data
consumers alike.

> Software should be able to deal with both.

In my opinion, software should not _need_ to deal with both. Working
around easily fixed database quality issues is a waste of time.
Especially when there's even a volunteer eager to fix these quality issues!

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Florian Lohoff]

On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 07:42:16PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> fixme tag is a standard way to mark fixmes.
> Editors wishing to finish mapping in their area would (directly or
> indirectly, for example using JOSM) look through objects tagged with
> fixme tags.
> 
> FIXME tag is an unexpected way to mark fixmes, retagging this duplicate to
> fixme key would improve tagging without any information loss.
> 
> It would make development of QA tools easier as authors would not need to
> discover and implement support for this duplicated key.

IMHO fixing problems in the data always start with fixing the cause
why they are added in the first place. Otherwise you fix the current
state but errors start beeing added the minute you think you are "done".

For the case problem here i dont think a mechanical edit is advised.

We have at least 3 ways - fixme=* FIXME=* and note=fixme *.

When you count in all the case variations like:
[Ff][Ii][Xx][Mm][Ee]= and note=[Ff][Ii][Xx][Mm][Ee] *

You are in the hundrets. Just fixing FIXME to fixme is just
a small fraction of the issue.

Better fix data consumers to use strncasecmp and not strncmp.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
 UTF-8 Test: The  ran after a , but the  ran away


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 03/07/2018 à 21:21, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :

Je ne fais pas d'hypothèse, quand une commune mentionne partout la 
même orthographe et la voisine utilise systématiquement l'autre et que 
ça concerne des terrains qui sont à chacune d'elle, (...)

Ici on parle de Pré de _La Mar(r)e_ à côté de _La Mare_.
Le/les prés est/sont/serait sur les communes de Montgermont et de 
_Saint-Grégoire_

Le hameau sur _Saint Grégoire_.

Le Cadastre comme les cartes consultées (Cassini, IGN...) ne mentionnent 
pas de "Pré de la Marre".


On N'est PAS dans le cas où deux communes utilisent systématiquement 
leur propre graphie.


Merci de nous passer les indices autres que Fantoir indiquant un "Pré de 
la Marre"





Le 03/07/2018 à 20:25, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr
 a écrit :

Maintenant si vous pensez que c'est une erreur, signalez-le aux
communes, mais tant qu'elles ne changent pas ou n'annulent pas un
nom, il n'y a aucune raison que ce soit nous qui le fassions.

Le 3 juillet 2018 à 20:17, mailto:osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com>> a écrit :

Et ça ne vous dérange pas d'écrire Marre avec deux R alors
que le lieu-dit à côté a classiquement un seul r ?

Vérifié sur le terrain ?

35189B285F

PRE DE LA MARRE (Montgermont)

35278B633X

PRE DE LA MARRE (Saint-Grégoire).

à côté de : 35278B503F [Lieu-dit bâti selon FANTOIR] LA MARE


Le 03/07/2018 à 19:47, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr
 a écrit :

Ce n'est pas un doublon, c'est un lieu dit FANTOIR qui
existe sous deux noms légèrement différents entre deux communes

Quelle différence entre PRE DE LA MARRE et PRE DE LA MARRE?

Jean-Yvon

___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr





___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr




___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr





___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr


___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

[Talk-it] Parcheggio su copertura di fabbricato

[cxc]

Buonasera,
Ho aggiunto un parcheggio ad un’edificio già presente in osm.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/466770114 


Mi spiego: l’edificio è realizzato contromonte, è ad un solo piano fuori terra 
e funge da pertinenza/parcheggio, a livello della copertura, alla palazzina 
posta in adiacenza, mentre da via don Giovanni Minzoni si accede a dei locali 
non residenziali (sopra a detti locali è posto il parcheggio).

Chiedevo conferma o indicazioni per definire.

grazie
Carlo


___
Talk-it mailing list
Talk-it@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Philippe Verdy]

Je ne fais pas d'hypothèse, quand une commune mentionne partout la même
orthographe et la voisine utilise systématiquement l'autre et que ça
concerne des terrains qui sont à chacune d'elle, il n'y a pa-s d'erreur (ou
l'erreur est historique mais sans explication on ne peut pas la changer
comme on veut. C'est à la commune de décider alors du changement nécessaire
ou chercher un accord avec la voisine si elle veut la même orthographe.
J'ai à moins de 500 mètre de chez moi une rue unique qui porte deux noms
orthographiés légèrement différemment, et rien ne bougera certainement
avant longtemps car les deux noms sont repris chacun dans d'autres noms de
chaque commune ou par des commerces ou des documents touristiques. suivant
les cartes on trouve un nom ou l'autre sans raison plus pertinente qu'une
autre pour choisir. historiquement c'était le nom d'une personne (dont
l'orthographe était également différente).
Moi-même mon nom est issu d'une erreur d'orthographe à l'état-civil sur un
document militaire de mon grand-père lors de la guerre 14-18. Les archives
d'état-civil étant perdues, elles ont té reconstituées avec les autres
documents dont ce livret militaire: mon grand-père s'est ensuite marié sous
un nom différent de son nom de son nom de naissance et de ses propres
parents (dont l'orthographe était encore à l'poque inscrite sur leurs
pierres tombales).

Mais impossible de changer maintenant, le temps est passé, et je n'ai pas
envie de payer pour restaurer ce nom que je n'ai encore jamais eu
officiellement moi-même.
Pour la toponymie c'est pareil: passé un temps (pas plus de 10 ans pour les
recours administratifs), le nom fait foi tel qu'il est et ce serait
apporter plus de complications et de tracasseries que d'essayer de le
rétablir alors qu'il a été cité dans trop de documents qui pourrait ensuite
se retourner en diifcultés adminsitratives ou judiciaires pour faire
reconnaitre des droits.

Toujours à mon sujet il y a quelques années lors de la succesion de mon
grand-père est venu une contestation d'un tiers qui prétendait que le
terrain cédé n'avait pas été vendu et ne pouvait pas entrer dans la
succession. La commune a essyé de s'en servir pour exproprier sans droit:
une décision de justice a fait réinscrire dans le cadastre le nom qui
figurait sur les actes notariés (entre temps la nomenclature cadastrale a
changé, les numéros de planches ne correspondaient plus et la commune ne
pouvait pas retrouver les documents d'origine aux archives départementales:
c'était le nom qui faisait foi, mais le plan annoté contresigné par le
notaire avait été enregistré en mairie (qui avait apposé son cachet, contre
remise d'une taxe, de plus des taxes locales ont été calculées et prélevées
chaque année et le simple calcule de surface montrait que le plan notarié
était conforme: les anciens toponymes notariés ont été réengistrés, la
cession initiale du terrain déclarée valide, la succession a pu se faire;
la commune convoitait le terrain, elle a du l'acheter pour élargir une
route au lieu d'exproprier au profit de l'Etat puis de la commune et la
procédure du voisin a été déclarée nulle, car au delà de la parcelle
achetée par la commune, il voulait faire abattre un muret de pierre et
faciliter le passage d'un engin agricole alors qu'il voulait aussi effacer
un fossé attenant et le déplacer là où le mur venait d'appuyer: il a pu le
faire mais en achetant l'autre parcelle et en obtenant un permis de démolir
et en payant l'installation d'une nouvelle clôture, plus la replantation
d'arbres eux aussi concernés par l'abattage).

A la suite de ça, l'état a enregistré le reste de la succession de mon
grand-père, a pris sa part (droits de successions) et le reste est resté
incontesté. Et on a pu mettre le reste de la propriété en vente (avant ça,
pas moyen, et l'Etat exigeait une taxe plus élevée basé sur un prix réel de
cession surestimé: le terrain n'était en effet plus contructible, seule la
construction et la partie paysagée autour étant vendue dans un lot, le
reste revendu à un fermeir pour en faire une prairie agricole, et à un
arboriculteur pour étendre ses plantations situées sur la commune voisine;
d'autre part la commune a eu d'autres exigences concernant un ancien chemin
communal qui pourtant ne servait plus car son tracé avait été coupé aux
deux extrémités par le remembrement du début des années 1970 voulu par les
2 communes d'alors: ce chemin communal cependant voisinait un ruisseau
traversant une prairie humide qu'on avait arboré plus tard. Ce terrain
humide est devenu récemment une pommeraie à cidre après sa vente mais pour
céder le terrain il a fallu faire dégager le chemin communal, refaire un
nouveau chemin raccordé à la voie publique avec un droit de passage pour
promeneurs, chasseurs et engins agricoles, ou pour déplacer des vaches...:
le terrain a lui aussi hérité d'un nom dans le cadastre, la parcelle a été
vendue sous ce nom, le cadastre a été annexé avec de nouvelles découpes.
Cette pommeraie a maintenant  

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[osm . sanspourriel]

Tu fais l'hypothèse que le cadastre (qui est a été écrit à partir de 
plans papier) et FANTOIR retranscrivent toujours sans erreur.


C'est une hypothèse fausse.

Toute source a ses erreurs, on ne doit pas les reproduire sans réfléchir.

Par exemple, sur le poste de transformation (sujet de juillet) il est 
écrit Petit Port Cadic pourtant le lieu-dit c'est Petite Porte Cadic 
 
et sur le cadastre il est écrit Peti Port Caddic.


Visiblement EDF a repris le cadastre en corrigeant 2 erreurs... et il en 
restait donc encore.


Jean-Yvon


Le 03/07/2018 à 20:25, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
Maintenant si vous pensez que c'est une erreur, signalez-le aux 
communes, mais tant qu'elles ne changent pas ou n'annulent pas un nom, 
il n'y a aucune raison que ce soit nous qui le fassions.


Le 3 juillet 2018 à 20:17, > a écrit :


Et ça ne vous dérange pas d'écrire Marre avec deux R alors que le
lieu-dit à côté a classiquement un seul r ?

Vérifié sur le terrain ?

35189B285F
 PRE
DE LA MARRE (Montgermont)

35278B633X
 PRE
DE LA MARRE (Saint-Grégoire).

à côté de : 35278B503F [Lieu-dit bâti selon FANTOIR] LA MARE


Le 03/07/2018 à 19:47, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr
 a écrit :

Ce n'est pas un doublon, c'est un lieu dit FANTOIR qui existe
sous deux noms légèrement différents entre deux communes

Quelle différence entre PRE DE LA MARRE et PRE DE LA MARRE?

Jean-Yvon

___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr





___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr


___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [Talk-it-trentino] Sviluppo app navigatore per osm

[Alessandro Vitali]

Renato se hai delle date da proporre spara! Di dove sei? Ci sarebbe la
possibilità di trovarci per farmi vedere come funziona il vostro tablet?

Grazie!
Ale Vit

Il 03 Lug 2018 11:04, "Renato Conotter"  ha
scritto:

Scusate intervengo solo ora.
Noi (vvf) usiamo questo tablet da un anno. lo sviluppatore della app di
emergenza che poi attiva il navigatore permette più scelta. Noi abbiamo
usato per un bel po' Waze. Ed in centrale la cartografia di riferimento è
OSM (su mia richiesta)
La gestione del dato cartografico è un bagno di sangue!
Tutto ciò detto domani non ci posso essere ma volentieri vorrei incontrarci.


Renato Conotter
www.conotter.net
xcover3

Il mar 3 lug 2018, 09:03 Alessandro Vitali  ha
scritto:

> Allora ragazzi direi di fissare l'incontro per domani, mercoledì 4 luglio.
> Facciamo dalle 18 alle 20??
>
> Direi, se a Cristian sta bene, di fare a casa mia in modo che ci sia un
> computer di comodo utilizzo... via Giuseppe Gozzer 17/b. Il mio numero è
> 3337326142.
>
>
> Attendo vostre!
> Ale Vit
>
>
> Il giorno 29 giugno 2018 21:34, Dario Zontini 
> ha scritto:
>
>> Io sono un po' troppo lontano per partecipare, ma vi seguirò con
>> interesse
>>
>> Il ven 29 giu 2018, 16:07 Alessandro Vitali  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> Ciao ragazzi,
>>>
>>> il 13 giugno io, Denis e Federico (un collega di Cavalese, che legge in
>>> copia) abbiamo fatto il primo incontro. Ci siamo confrontati e discusso
>>> sui seguenti argomenti:
>>>
>>> - strumenti e modalità di aggiornamento di osm (osmhydrant, josm,
>>> vespucci, osmand, ecc...)
>>> - cosa sono gli stili di josm per estrapolare ed ottenere carte cartacee
>>> utili per i mezzi di emergenza
>>> - cosa sono le query per estrapolare dati con overpass turbo
>>>
>>> Abbiamo concluso (correggimi Denis se sbaglio) che in questo gruppo ci
>>> sono diverse persone che hanno conoscenze approfondite sia sugli stili che
>>> sulle query, conoscenze che a noi mancano...
>>>
>>> Fare gruppo sarebbe sicuramente utile per raggiungere alcuni obbiettivi,
>>> quali:
>>> - completare più velocemente la mappatura delle vie e civici della bassa
>>> valsugana
>>> - creare uno stile/query con quale poter estrapolare i dati necessari
>>> per creare mappe cartacee dei vari paesi/frazioni mappati. Le mappe
>>> verrebbero poi stampate e messe in dotazione delle varie ambulanze di
>>> trentino emergenza... e, perchè no, anche degli altri servizi di emergenza
>>> di zona.
>>> - capire come stimolare l'implementazione dei dati OSM sui futuri Tablet
>>> di cui verranno dotate le ambulanze di Trentino Emergenza
>>>
>>>
>>> Per questo io e Cristian siamo qui a proporvi un paio di date di luglio
>>> per un possibile secondo incontro:
>>> *- mercoledì 4 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00*
>>> *- giovedì 5 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00 *
>>>
>>> *Ecco il Doodle per decidere la data: 
>>> **https://doodle.com/poll/bwdsieq6sgwrbdu7
>>> *
>>> *Indicate se avete un orario preferito...*
>>>
>>> Grazie ancora!!
>>> Aspettiamo vostre disponibilità!!
>>>
>>> Ale Vit
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno 25 maggio 2018 17:38, Alessandro Vitali 
>>> ha scritto:
>>>
 Grazie per le risposte.

 Faccio una serie di premesse vista dal mio luogo di lavoro:
 - nelle periferie del Trentino le informazioni per raggiungere il
 target sono ancora molto "paesane"... "è la casa dopo la stalla di Tizio
 che è il fratello di Caio", oppure "è la stalla di Caio che si trova sulla
 via del Menador dopo la lunga siepe, prima della caso dello zio di
 Trentin". Con la forte crescita che il trentino ha avuto negli ultimi 10
 anni ci sono molte zone edificate non mappate e, tenuto conto che il
 sistema 118 negli ultimi 5 anni ha assunto circa 90 autisti (buona parte di
 fuori provincia) ed ha avviato da poco un nuovo concorso per altre
 assunzioni, quelle indicazioni che vengono date dalla popolazione per
 raggiungere i target ora risultano poco utili. Noi neo assunti non siamo
 cresciuti in questa società e non possiamo conoscere i legami di parentela
 tra i vari cittadini... anche per questo c'è la necessità di avere una base
 cartografica chiara, condivisa, aggiornata e facilmente consultabile.
 Questo ora non c'è!
 - la centrale operativa 118 ha la possibilità di consultare le mappe
 google, in raster OSM e altre. Non ti so però dare dati precisi in merito.
 - da ignorante, io non credo che OSM possa sostituire una cartografia
 gestita e certificata da un ministero ma, se usato con intelligenza, può
 essere di grande aiuto. Questo perchè può essere aggiornato con estrema
 facilità dagli utenti che lavorano direttamente sul campo rendendo più
 identificabili quelle aree che, per usanza popolare, vengono chiamate con
 nomi tipici. Da OSM poi si potrebbero produrre mappe cartacee aggiornate
 (strumento basilare per la nostra attività) dato che, data la particolarità
 del territorio, quelle disponibili sono più 

[OSM-talk-fr] Fwd: voie étroite + bandes cyclables

[erwan salomon]

> 
> 
>> Le 2 juil. 2018 à 23:18, Jean-Yvon Landrac > > a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> Erwan, tu confirmes ?
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/47.76811/-3.42428=N 
>> 
>> 
>> Jean-Yvon
>> 
>> Le 02/07/2018 à 22:57, marc marc - marc_marc_...@hotmail.com 
>>  a écrit :
>> 
> 
> mais, mais, mais …
> j’ai fait de la merde
> j’ai zapé cette voie quand j’ai créer la nouvelle D 163
> en plus elle croise cette D 163 sans y être connecté
> je la vire (au moins la portion qui n’est plus présente sur l’ortho IGN qui 
> date de la période des travaux)
> 
> par contre il y a une nouvelle traversé technique (avec clotures) plus proche 
> de plœmeur qu’il faut que je rajoute aussi
> un truc sur ma liste d’attente que j’avais oublié
> 
> j’étais passé y’a 2 semaine sur la vielle route
> toute propre sans marquage
> avec un panneau annonçant un chaucidoux
> je vais voir sur quelle portion il l’on mis
> j’en suis pas fan au passage, vite un petit nombre voitures reprennent leurs 
> habitudes et s’est stressant
> 
> autre chaucidoux dans les parages :
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24266086#map=17/47.73765/-3.37592=N 
> 
> je ne trouvais plus les exemples dans wiki du coup j’ai définis au filling :
> highway =*[1] 
>  + 
> cycleway =lane + lanes 
> =1 + oneway 
> =no
> au passage les bandes sont marquées par des petits vélos
> donc je ne sais si comme dans l’article sur les chaucidoux l’arrêt provisoire 
> est autorisé
> mais l’arrêt permanent est pratiqué … grrr
> je vais dénoncer ça à Marco : https://www.facebook.com/velorution.lorient/ 
> 
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[deuzeffe]

Pas grave, il y a Les Grandes Rigoles pas loin : on reste dans le ton.

On 03/07/2018 20:17, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com wrote:
Et ça ne vous dérange pas d'écrire Marre avec deux R alors que le 
lieu-dit à côté a classiquement un seul r ?



--
deuzeffe, qui est déjà dehors avec son 2 sous le bras

___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Philippe Verdy]

Maintenant si vous pensez que c'est une erreur, signalez-le aux communes,
mais tant qu'elles ne changent pas ou n'annulent pas un nom, il n'y a
aucune raison que ce soit nous qui le fassions.

Le 3 juillet 2018 à 20:17,  a écrit :

> Et ça ne vous dérange pas d'écrire Marre avec deux R alors que le lieu-dit
> à côté a classiquement un seul r ?
>
> Vérifié sur le terrain ?
>
> 35189B285F 
> PRE DE LA MARRE (Montgermont)
>
> 35278B633X 
> PRE DE LA MARRE (Saint-Grégoire).
> à côté de : 35278B503FLA MARE
>
>
> Le 03/07/2018 à 19:47, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
>
> Ce n'est pas un doublon, c'est un lieu dit FANTOIR qui existe sous deux
> noms légèrement différents entre deux communes
>
> Quelle différence entre PRE DE LA MARRE et PRE DE LA MARRE?
>
> Jean-Yvon
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Philippe Verdy]

Encore une fois l'orthographe vient du cadastre. Les variations sont
reprises telles quelles. Je trouve aussi des rues dont l'orthographe change
selon le côté (pas la même commune), les deux communes auant aussi des
lieux-dits comportant ce nom dedans avec leur orthographe propre à chaque
commune. Il faut l'accepter tel quel, ce n'est pas nous qui créons la
toponymie, on la relève telle qu'elle est (et aucune commune n'a envie d'en
changer). Des orthographes variables on en trouve aussi entre deux lieux
différents d'une même commune, c'est pour ça qu'une norme de référencement
numérique permet de les distinguer quand même (et ensuite c'est utile à
tout moment pour des actes judiciaires, des relevés d'accidents ou de
crimes par la police ou les pompiers, faire des études de terrain, passer
des marchés publics, établire des documents de cession de terrain ou des
négociations, faire des enquêtes publiques... La toponymie ça sert à plein
de choses officielles, même si elle n'est pas marquée physiquement sur le
terrain.


Le 3 juillet 2018 à 20:17,  a écrit :

> Et ça ne vous dérange pas d'écrire Marre avec deux R alors que le lieu-dit
> à côté a classiquement un seul r ?
>
> Vérifié sur le terrain ?
>
> 35189B285F 
> PRE DE LA MARRE (Montgermont)
>
> 35278B633X 
> PRE DE LA MARRE (Saint-Grégoire).
> à côté de : 35278B503FLA MARE
>
>
> Le 03/07/2018 à 19:47, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
>
> Ce n'est pas un doublon, c'est un lieu dit FANTOIR qui existe sous deux
> noms légèrement différents entre deux communes
>
> Quelle différence entre PRE DE LA MARRE et PRE DE LA MARRE?
>
> Jean-Yvon
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Philippe Verdy]

oui mais ils sont référencés par les deux communes sous des noms
différents. donc un point par commune chacun sa référence sur son terrain.

Le 3 juillet 2018 à 20:04, marc marc  a écrit :

> Le 03. 07. 18 à 19:26, djakk djakk a écrit :
> > ça vous semble logique un lieu-dit sur une 2*2 voies
>
> cela arrive :) parfois des échangeurs portent le nom
> du lieu-dit qui existait avant leur construction.
> Rien ne nécessite qu'un lieu dit soie vierge de route.
>
> > ou en doublon ?
> tu parles de celui-ci ?
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4742397078
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4896032583
> 2 lieu-dit avec le même nom à 250m d'intervalle,
> Tu as raison, cela me semble en effet un doublon "administratif",
> il n'y a très probablement qu'un lieu dit réel.
> j'aurais mis qu'un seul nœud, au milieu des 2 existants
> ou sur la limite communale, avc les 2 ref fantoir
> les lieux dit sont de toute façon souvent "par là bas"
> et non un brin d'herbe précis dans un champ.
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[osm . sanspourriel]

Et ça ne vous dérange pas d'écrire Marre avec deux R alors que le 
lieu-dit à côté a classiquement un seul r ?


Vérifié sur le terrain ?

35189B285F  
PRE DE LA MARRE (Montgermont)


35278B633X  
PRE DE LA MARRE (Saint-Grégoire).


à côté de : 35278B503F [Lieu-dit bâti selon FANTOIR] LA MARE


Le 03/07/2018 à 19:47, Philippe Verdy - verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit :
Ce n'est pas un doublon, c'est un lieu dit FANTOIR qui existe sous 
deux noms légèrement différents entre deux communes

Quelle différence entre PRE DE LA MARRE et PRE DE LA MARRE?

Jean-Yvon
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[marc marc]

Le 03. 07. 18 à 19:26, djakk djakk a écrit :
> ça vous semble logique un lieu-dit sur une 2*2 voies 

cela arrive :) parfois des échangeurs portent le nom
du lieu-dit qui existait avant leur construction.
Rien ne nécessite qu'un lieu dit soie vierge de route.

> ou en doublon ?
tu parles de celui-ci ?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4742397078
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4896032583
2 lieu-dit avec le même nom à 250m d'intervalle,
Tu as raison, cela me semble en effet un doublon "administratif",
il n'y a très probablement qu'un lieu dit réel.
j'aurais mis qu'un seul nœud, au milieu des 2 existants
ou sur la limite communale, avc les 2 ref fantoir
les lieux dit sont de toute façon souvent "par là bas"
et non un brin d'herbe précis dans un champ.
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[Philippe Verdy]

Ce n'est pas un doublon, c'est un lieu dit FANTOIR qui existe sous deux
noms légèrement différents entre deux communes (rien que pour ça, conserver
les deux noms évite de confondre l'un avec l'autre et permet aussi de
localiser ce qui n'est pas pas facile à trouver autrement qu'en regardant
le cadastre).
Les différences d'orthographe entre deux communes sont monnaie courante (y
compris des noms de rue à cheval entre deux communes, aucune ne souhaite en
changer et elles sont chacune dans leur droit pour les terrains qui les
concernent).

Le 3 juillet 2018 à 19:26, djakk djakk  a écrit :

> Salut !
>
> Question : ça vous semble logique un lieu-dit sur une 2*2 voies ou en
> doublon ? Moi pas :P
> Philippe Verdi les a ajouté parce que présents dans Fantoir ou dans le
> cadastre. Pour moi c’est de l’administratif périmé qui n’a pas sa place
> dans osm ...
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.15532/-1.70208
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.14205/-1.69846
>
>
>
> djakk
>
> ___
> Talk-fr mailing list
> Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>
>
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [Talk-us] named links

[Evin Fairchild]

There are some cases where naming link roads makes sense. For example, I
tag the roads coming out of roundabouts as link roads (especially if it's
something like a residential road intersecting, a note important road like
a secondary road, and I tag the slip roads for that leg of the roundabout
as secondary_link), and it is pretty helpful for routing purposes to name
the link roads in that case. Also helpful if the link roads represent a
RIRO (right-in, right-out) intersection.

-Evin (compdude)

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 9:28 AM OSM Volunteer stevea 
wrote:

> While I don't have "a dog in this fight," I also read our wiki which says
> "Link roads NORMALLY do not have names."  (Emphasis mine).  In the unusual
> (abnormal?) cases where they do (and I trust Paul wouldn't have added them
> unless they do), there is no contradiction with our wiki, rather an unusual
> case which isn't "normal."  In my opinion, that's OK.
>
> We should follow what our wiki says, in this case it leave a bit of
> "wiggle room" to name a link road.  Paul has named some link roads where it
> appears they do have such names in the real world, and I see no
> inconsistency.
>
> Sometimes a datum in OSM will LACK all the tags it should, because some
> are not known.  That's not great, but it's OK:  mappers who come along
> later can add these (and improve this and other features in our map), this
> is called "growing our map."  Sometimes an ADDITIONAL datum exists in the
> real world and is added to a feature even when this is unusual (though not
> incorrect) as many other similar data do not have this additional datum.
> That's OK; I see no inconsistency.
>
> Our wiki strives to hit the sweet spot of accommodating what is in the
> real world and how we should tag such data in our map.  It is a guide, not
> absolutely strict doctrine.  I say this because we have "plastic tagging"
> that encourages us to tag accurately while allowing flexibility.
> Especially in early versions, we may not always write our wiki as 100%
> correct, and so wikis grow, change and evolve to accomplish this.  If the
> wiki needs updating to note that unusually, but in certain parts of the
> world, link roads sometimes get names, I encourage you to update it:  we'll
> all benefit.
>
> Writing/contributing to wiki is easy, though it can be tricky:  you want
> to channel consensus without being too strictly doctrinaire in a direction
> which would hobble contributions or just plain encourage/teach others to
> enter them wrongly.  It is meant to guide us, not preach to us as an
> absolute.  Where it is wrong, or one or more believe it wrong or
> out-of-date with real world data, please use the Discussion page built into
> each wiki to discuss with others any potential changes to existing wiki.
> The "right thing" (better written wiki) usually happens soon after such
> discussion.
>
> SteveA
> California
> OSM Volunteer since 2009 and serious contributor to not only our map's
> data, but our wiki, too
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[OSM-talk-fr] Lieux-dits fantoir

[djakk djakk]

Salut !

Question : ça vous semble logique un lieu-dit sur une 2*2 voies ou en
doublon ? Moi pas :P
Philippe Verdi les a ajouté parce que présents dans Fantoir ou dans le
cadastre. Pour moi c’est de l’administratif périmé qui n’a pas sa place
dans osm ...

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.15532/-1.70208

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.14205/-1.69846



djakk
___
Talk-fr mailing list
Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr

Re: [Talk-us] named links

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

While I don't have "a dog in this fight," I also read our wiki which says "Link 
roads NORMALLY do not have names."  (Emphasis mine).  In the unusual 
(abnormal?) cases where they do (and I trust Paul wouldn't have added them 
unless they do), there is no contradiction with our wiki, rather an unusual 
case which isn't "normal."  In my opinion, that's OK.

We should follow what our wiki says, in this case it leave a bit of "wiggle 
room" to name a link road.  Paul has named some link roads where it appears 
they do have such names in the real world, and I see no inconsistency.

Sometimes a datum in OSM will LACK all the tags it should, because some are not 
known.  That's not great, but it's OK:  mappers who come along later can add 
these (and improve this and other features in our map), this is called "growing 
our map."  Sometimes an ADDITIONAL datum exists in the real world and is added 
to a feature even when this is unusual (though not incorrect) as many other 
similar data do not have this additional datum.  That's OK; I see no 
inconsistency.

Our wiki strives to hit the sweet spot of accommodating what is in the real 
world and how we should tag such data in our map.  It is a guide, not 
absolutely strict doctrine.  I say this because we have "plastic tagging" that 
encourages us to tag accurately while allowing flexibility.  Especially in 
early versions, we may not always write our wiki as 100% correct, and so wikis 
grow, change and evolve to accomplish this.  If the wiki needs updating to note 
that unusually, but in certain parts of the world, link roads sometimes get 
names, I encourage you to update it:  we'll all benefit.

Writing/contributing to wiki is easy, though it can be tricky:  you want to 
channel consensus without being too strictly doctrinaire in a direction which 
would hobble contributions or just plain encourage/teach others to enter them 
wrongly.  It is meant to guide us, not preach to us as an absolute.  Where it 
is wrong, or one or more believe it wrong or out-of-date with real world data, 
please use the Discussion page built into each wiki to discuss with others any 
potential changes to existing wiki.  The "right thing" (better written wiki) 
usually happens soon after such discussion.

SteveA
California
OSM Volunteer since 2009 and serious contributor to not only our map's data, 
but our wiki, too
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [OSM-ja] ローマ字

[Leo Gaspard]

On 07/03/2018 12:44 PM, tomoya muramoto wrote:
> ひらがな→name:ja-Hira
> ローマ字→name:ja-Latn
> 漢字かな交じり→name

分かりました。ありがとう！論理的です。だけど、「name:ja-Hira」と「name:ja-Latn」は同じ情報を伝えませんか。

そして、nameの漢字を知らなければ、どうしますか。たとえば、「Kaisei」はビルに大きく貼ってありますが、その言葉の漢字は知りません。もしかしたら漢字がないかな。その場合、「name=Kaisei」もいいですか。それとも、「name:ja-Latn=Kaisei」（「name」なし）の方がいいですか。

「name=Kaisei」が正しかったら、デニーズは「name=Denny's」の方がいいじゃないでしょうか。大きくビルに貼ってある名前は「Denny's」ですからね。ですけど、[1]のページによると、正しい「Denny's」のタグは「name=デニーズ
name:en=Denny's name:ja-Latn=Denīzu」。

それとも、「name=Kaisei」は違うけど「name:ja-Latn=Kaisei」ほど違わないでしょうか。そして、次の「Kaisei」の漢字を知っているmapperに正しくするのを任せますか。

僕に難しいのにごめんなさい。

レオ


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:Naming_sample

___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Why the HOT obsession with low quality buildings in Africa ?

[Jean-Marc Liotier]

On Tue, July 3, 2018 3:56 pm, mohamet lamine Ndiaye wrote:
> I am Mohamet Lamine Ndiaye [..]

Nangadef, I'm happy to hear from you - it has been a long time !

> [..] I think this is the umpteenth time we talk about it

Yes, this is a pet issue of mine - I hope that one day I'll understand why
you all seem to put so much time and energy into those buildings that I'm
not happy about... But hopefully they make other people happy !

> [..] However, it should be noted that in terms of the quality of the
> images and the density of the mapping areas, the contributors find it
> difficult to distinguish the actual boundaries of the Buildings

Yes - and distinguishing between building parts and the whole buildings is
a challenge for even the keenest eye.

> [..] Nevertheless, this does not preclude the use of these data in
> large-scale and highly resilient projects for the populations.

Do you have examples of use of that data ? That would help me understand
the benefits of mapping buildings even if they are approximate.

> [..] Other things, you should know that there are neighborhoods that do
> not benefit from subdivision and non-harmonized architecture of some lots
> do not promote aesthetics.

Indeed, the less orthogonal parts of town are a great challenge. Odette
(who is currently doing an internship at my company) told me about her
experience updating the cadastre in Ngor - it was a nightmare and they had
excellent drone imagery... So for an Openstreetmap contributor with only
orbital imagery it is simply impossible to do right - which is why I
wonder: instead of that herculean effort, why not settle for a simpler
model that provides the same data at a granularity closer to what our
resources let us record with adequate quality ?

> [..] What is important for me is that we have to start with something
> and although these data are of inferior quality, they respond to
> operational needs on the ground in case of disaster

A landuse=residential with residential=* (currently values of
residential=* are mostly "rural" and "urban" but a finer-grained
nomenclature could be designed such as "sparse single family", "dense
single family", "sparse urban", "dense urban") would provide approximate
population impact calculations at a fraction of the effort and without the
side effect of producing low quality buildings. Of course, buildings offer
much better precision - but only if they are actually precise: if a
building is mapped as two rectangles and the two sheds in the courtyard
are also mapped as generic buildings, is the result less precise than the
surfacic approximation ?

Sure, quite a few contributors do excellent work - but there is currently
not enough of them available to perform the huge task with high precision
everywhere.

> if we have data released by the cadastre

If you ever get your hands on that, I will be mightily impressed by your
advocacy work... So far I failed at getting even a simple list of street
references so I find difficult to imagine the day when Senegalese and
Malian government agencies will release cadastre and geodesic network. I'm
glad that you remain optimist... And after all, before French contributors
got their hands on IGN orthophotography and vector cadastre, many of us
(including me) didn't think it was possible - and then it happened thanks
to the efforts of the optimists and stubborn among us !


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] [HOT] Why the HOT obsession with low quality buildings in Africa ?

[Jean-Marc Liotier]

On Tue, July 3, 2018 10:46 am, Rupert Allan wrote:
>
> [..] 'some data being better than no data' [..]

Yes but, in that case, landuse combined with density and/or building type
attributes do the job more cheaply and with none of the low quality
stigma. But, of course, there may be other reasons for insisting on
building shapes.

> Building materials and standards are used to map [..]
> A simple look at OSM metrics of, say, thousands of
> grass rooves amongst tin rooves in a fire, or hundreds of mud
> walls instead of concrete in an immanent flood, really helps.
> At this point, this data directly impacts
> and/or saves thousands of lives.
>
> That's my obsession.
>
> *Rupert Allan*
> Country Manager - Uganda

While building=hut is a useful distinction that is widely recorded in
relevant locations
(https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/building=hut#map, the
building=material you seem to refer to is actually not very popular
outside of Europe
(https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building%3Amaterial#map) - in your
country it only appears 693 times (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/A2C)

Most of the buildings I seen in Senegal and Mali are building=yes with no
other attribute... So, for now at least, this is not a question of
building materials.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[Talk-GB] New Data in PRoW Comparison Tool

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

I've just added another county -- East Sussex -- to my PRoW Comparison
Tool: http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/east-sussex/

I've also been doing a bit of updating of my table of council Rights
of Way Open Data at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/open-data/ .
Apart from the lines with grey text, it should be reasonably accurate
now. Do let me know if you see anything that needs updating there, or
would like to help with updating it or obtaining data.

If anyone would like any additional counties added to the PRoW
Comparison Tool, then the criteria (some legal, some technical) can be
found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/prow/progress/#add-authority .
Counties that are ready to go are marked with *'s in the Open Data
table linked above. Others will need a bit more work (requesting data,
confirming licenses, getting parish ID lookup tables, etc.) but that
doesn't mean they can't be done. Some requests to councils are already
pending, and others can be made where there is interest.

Best wishes,

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Dave F]

Hi

On 03/07/2018 13:27, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

On 03.07.2018 14:21, Dave F wrote:
it should be updated when the object is touched individually anyway, 
thus not spoiling the history


There's no difference doing it that way or with a bulk edit  - it 
will still be recorded in the history..


 and makes an analysis for old objects significantly difficult.


All the history is still there*

* Actually I'm unsure if that's strictly true. Potlatch often looses 
history when temporarily splitting ways & then rejoining them. Unsure if 
the other editors do similarly.




There is no fear, there are long-standing rules that have reasons.


Mateusz is following those rules. Whenever a bulk edit is suggested some 
contributors go on a bit a wobble, with remarks akin to thinking the sky 
will fall on their heads.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-ja] ビルのインポート（GSI)

[Leo Gaspard]

三浦さん、今晩は。

分かりました。残念ですね…

とにかく、ありがとうございます！
レオ


On 07/03/2018 09:38 PM, Miura Hiroshi wrote:
> 今晩は。
> 
> GSIの規約と私達の契約のもと、ツールによるインポートはできません。
> 
> トレースと現地の調査で最新の情報にする手順です。
> 
> 三浦
> 
> 2018年7月3日(火) 21:35 Leo Gaspard :
> 
>> 皆様、
>>
>> もう一度質問があってすみません。
>>
>> iDでJapan GSI Standard
>>
>> Mapを見て、それを使ってビルを手でインポートします。ですけど、もしそれを無人化できれば、すごいだろうと思います。フランスでは、JOSMのプラグイン[1]はありますから希望がありますけど｡｡｡？
>>
>> 迷惑をかけてすみません。
>> レオ
>>
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:JOSM/Greffons/Cadastre-fr
>> （今まで決して使いませんでしたが｡｡｡）
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ja mailing list
>> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-ja mailing list
>> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-ja] ローマ字

[tomoya muramoto]

レオ様

ちょうど解決されたようでなりよりですが、実は少しnameタグの定義があいまいです。

日本のタグ定義はJapan taggingに基本的な取り決めが記載されています。
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Japan_tagging

昨年、歴史的に使用されている`name:ja_rm`を`name:ja-Latn`に変更しようという議論がありました。しかし明確な合意には至らず、Japan
taggingは`name:ja_rm`のままです。
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-ja/2017-October/009902.html

個人的には新しい形式を使うことをお勧めしたいです。
ひらがな→name:ja-Hira
ローマ字→name:ja-Latn
漢字かな交じり→name

ご参考まで

muramoto
___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-ja] ビルのインポート（GSI)

[Miura Hiroshi]

今晩は。

GSIの規約と私達の契約のもと、ツールによるインポートはできません。

トレースと現地の調査で最新の情報にする手順です。

三浦

2018年7月3日(火) 21:35 Leo Gaspard :

> 皆様、
>
> もう一度質問があってすみません。
>
> iDでJapan GSI Standard
>
> Mapを見て、それを使ってビルを手でインポートします。ですけど、もしそれを無人化できれば、すごいだろうと思います。フランスでは、JOSMのプラグイン[1]はありますから希望がありますけど｡｡｡？
>
> 迷惑をかけてすみません。
> レオ
>
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:JOSM/Greffons/Cadastre-fr
> （今まで決して使いませんでしたが｡｡｡）
>
> ___
> Talk-ja mailing list
> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
>
___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Dave F]

On 03/07/2018 12:33, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

On 03.07.2018 12:44, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
Not skill but knowledge - that fixme and FIXME have exactly the same 
meaning > I hoped that that in this case there will be no controversy 
at all and this minor duplication


On 03.07.2018 12:52, Dave F wrote:
> All the editors need to be checked to see if they're adding FIXME as 
default.


Yes, thus the logical consequence is that tickets are opened with the 
major editors,
to include that in the validators, and remind the users to fix the 
underlying issue.
When the object is edited without removing the fixme/FIXME, the 
validator could lowercase it while saving the object anyway.


Great, but why not fix the existing in the database at the same time.
Analogy: When a waterpipe bursts, you fix the pipe to prevent further 
flooding, but you *also* mop up the water on the floor.




This process was done with other tags that were found unnecessary, 
such as _created_by_ on objects, and very successful without bloating 
the history.


Created_by is different. It was added mechanically by editors, not 
users. Within entities it's a deprecated tag. Fixme is still a current, 
relevant, user added tag. (Saying that, I still think Created_by should 
be bulk removed)


DaveF

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-ja] ビルのインポート（GSI)

[Leo Gaspard]

皆様、

もう一度質問があってすみません。

iDでJapan GSI Standard
Mapを見て、それを使ってビルを手でインポートします。ですけど、もしそれを無人化できれば、すごいだろうと思います。フランスでは、JOSMのプラグイン[1]はありますから希望がありますけど｡｡｡？

迷惑をかけてすみません。
レオ


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:JOSM/Greffons/Cadastre-fr
（今まで決して使いませんでしたが｡｡｡）

___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Lester Caine]

On 03/07/18 13:21, Dave F wrote:
Removes duplicated, reduces confusion, easier to search. A good Spring 
clean improves the database.


I really think this fear of bulk edits has gone too far.


I would probably ask just how many of the tags you think are duplicated?

The point here is that there is no NEED for this edit, and it basically 
does nothing to improve the database. It simply hides this block of tags 
within the later larger bulk of 'fixme', when as has been said, if these 
have been around for so long they should be addressed.


Miss-spelt tags being bulk edited is one thing, but 'FIXME' is clean and 
changing them just because you can adds nothing to the data. Get on an 
deal with them to remove them all together is the right tack ...


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Andy Townsend]

On 03/07/2018 11:44, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
3. Lipiec 2018 12:26 od t.pfei...@computer.org 
:


 > Removing the FIXME tag reduces the learning curve for map editors.
What specific skill is to be learned here?


Not skill but knowledge - that fixme and FIXME have exactly the same 
meaning.




Not exactly - when I wrote https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/Notes01 I 
specifically looked for "fixme" and not "FIXME" deliberately because I 
was specifically looking for entries that were tagged "fixme" and wanted 
to avoid older "can someone please map stuff here" entries such as 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/768440770 .  Certainly in the areas I 
map in you tend to get different sorts of "fixme" information in each 
(though there's substantial overlap of course), not least because of the 
earlier popularity of FIXME as has been mentioned elsewhere.


That said, compared to most "I think I can fix the tags in OSM" 
mechanical edits the impact is trivial.  The biggest change I'd likely 
see would be having to wade through a tiny bit more rubbish to get to 
stuff I can usefully fix (whenever I'm anywhere with a Garmin I'll have 
a file of local OSM notes and fixmes in it).  Of course, it wouldn't 
prevent people adding FIXME tags in the future.


Best Regards,

Andy


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 03.07.2018 14:21, Dave F wrote:

it should be updated when the object is touched individually anyway, thus not 
spoiling the history


There's no difference doing it that way or with a bulk edit  - it will still be recorded in the 
history..


It is a major difference! Doing the mechanical edit touches the last_edited for _all_ objects, as 
pointed out by Michael, and makes an analysis for old objects significantly difficult. Doing it 
individually _while doing other edits on the object_ touches the history for an intended improvement 
of content, not some unimportant lowercasing.


Removes duplicated, reduces confusion, easier to search. 


Cannot confirm any of those from my perspective.
Age of the object is much more difficult to search, while ignoring the 
upper/lowercase is easy.


A good Spring clean improves the database.


Spring is over, however the database is improved all seasons by individual 
edits.


I really think this fear of bulk edits has gone too far.


There is no fear, there are long-standing rules that have reasons.

tom

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-ja] ローマ字

[Leo Gaspard]

>
POIの名前を記入する時、どう書きますか？漢字で、平仮名で、ローマ字で？どれも？検索が易しいようにどれも入れたいですが、iDの「Translation」のメニューに「日本語」しかないから、どうすればいいか考えています。

あ〜　https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JA:Key:name:ja　を見て自分に答えられました。

時間を無駄に使って、申し訳ありません。
レオ

On 07/03/2018 12:20 AM, Leo Gaspard wrote:
> はじめまして！
> 
> フランス人で、研修のために日本に移り住んでいました。もし日本語がだめだったら、ぜひ言ってください！まだ良くできませんから。
> 
> OSMを上達ようにしたいですが、ちょっと質問があります。
> 
> POIの名前を記入する時、どう書きますか？漢字で、平仮名で、ローマ字で？どれも？検索が易しいようにどれも入れたいですが、iDの「Translation」のメニューに「日本語」しかないから、どうすればいいか考えています。
> 
> よろしくお願いします。
> レオ・ガスパール
> 
> ___
> Talk-ja mailing list
> Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
> 

___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Dave F]

On 03/07/2018 12:35, Tom Pfeifer wrote:

On 03.07.2018 13:22, Dave F wrote:

Great, but why the objection to a mechanical edit, rather than 
individually? Doing it one by one still updates the last_modified 
attribute.


it should be updated when the object is touched individually anyway, 
thus not spoiling the history


There's no difference doing it that way or with a bulk edit  - it will 
still be recorded in the history..



with unnecessary bulk edits that do not improve the data themselves.


Removes duplicated, reduces confusion, easier to search. A good Spring 
clean improves the database.


I really think this fear of bulk edits has gone too far.

DaveF

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-cz] Kontrola uctu pro fotky rozcestniku

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj, to je jedna z veci, co uz jsem udelal (kde to bylo zrejme), viz:

https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/PhotoDB2/src/master/import.php od radku 116.

Bye

Dne 3. července 2018 14:13 Mikoláš Štrajt  napsal(a):
> Zdar,
> během svého působení jsem se přejmenoval ze "Severák" na "Severak" (měl jsem
> za to, že dlouhé á způsobuje určité technické chyby).
>
> Tudíž část fotek má "Severák" a část "Severak". Zajímavé ale je, že v té
> importní tabulce jsou všechy fotky uvedeny u mě (je jich jen 9).
>
> --
> Severák
>
> -- Původní e-mail --
> Od: Tom Ka 
> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
> Datum: 3. 7. 2018 13:41:18
> Předmět: [Talk-cz] Kontrola uctu pro fotky rozcestniku
>
> Ahoj,
>
> vzhledem k tomu, ze walleyho system pro fotky dlouhodobe nefunguje
> tak, aby byl pro mne pouzitelny a s walleym se nejsem schopen
> dohodnout na nejake zmene, rozhodl jsem se udelat si system vlastni
> (aka PhotoDB2). Prvnim krokem pro import stavajicich dat je jejich
> uvedeni do stavu, kdy jsou aspon castecne pouzitelna a na to budu
> potrebovat v ruznych pripadech kontaktovat autory fotek.
>
> Proto prosim o kontrolu vaseho uctu v teto tabulce:
>
> https://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/photodb2/import.php?stat.author
>
> Prvni sloupec je autor dle DB z api.openstreetmap.cz (po
> upravach/slouceni) zrejmych preklepu apod, druhy je odhadnuty OSM nick
> - ten je pro mne kvuli komunikaci stezejni, posledni je pocet fotek
> daneho cloveka. Podivejte se prosim jestli (pokud nahravate fotky) v
> tabulce jste a sedi obe vase jmena a zaroven nejste v tabulce vickrat.
> Pokud je neco spatne, poslete mi prosim spravne info do mailu (neni
> treba do konference at neplevelime).
>
> Pro pripadne zajemce jsou stavajici (pracovni, zatim nic pro finalni
> uzivatele) skripty na https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/PhotoDB2.
>
> Diky moc tom.k.
>
> P.S.: Nepiste mi prosim, ze se mam radeji s wallym dohodnout a
> spolupracovat, uz jsem promrhal prilis mnoho casu kdyz jsem se o to
> snazil a nefunguje to.
>
> ___
> Talk-cz mailing list
> Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz
>
>
> ___
> Talk-cz mailing list
> Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz
>

___
Talk-cz mailing list
Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Dave F]

Hi Maarten

On 03/07/2018 10:38, Maarten Deen wrote:

On 2018-07-03 11:23, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

3. Lipiec 2018 10:36 od md...@xs4all.nl:


What will prevent users from adding FIXME tags in the future?


Nothing, users may add any tags. It is impossible to change that by
edits.


Then the proposed mechanical edit is useless. 


It will improve the quality of the database

It will have to be repeated periodically, 


Probably, but.the database is *always* being updated repeatedly so no 
real hardship.



and I don't think that should be how we do QC for this problem.
If this is a problem, it needs to be fixed at the root (change the API 
to accept lowercase keys only or change every key to lowercase on 
upload) and then corrected (this proposed mechanical edit).


Yes; & fixed in editors.

Cheers
DaveF

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-cz] Kontrola uctu pro fotky rozcestniku

[Mikoláš Štrajt]

Zdar,

během svého působení jsem se přejmenoval ze "Severák" na "Severak" (měl jsem
za to, že dlouhé á způsobuje určité technické chyby).




Tudíž část fotek má "Severák" a část "Severak". Zajímavé ale je, že v té
importní tabulce jsou všechy fotky uvedeny u mě (je jich jen 9).





--


Severák




-- Původní e-mail --
Od: Tom Ka 
Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
Datum: 3. 7. 2018 13:41:18
Předmět: [Talk-cz] Kontrola uctu pro fotky rozcestniku
"Ahoj,

vzhledem k tomu, ze walleyho system pro fotky dlouhodobe nefunguje
tak, aby byl pro mne pouzitelny a s walleym se nejsem schopen
dohodnout na nejake zmene, rozhodl jsem se udelat si system vlastni
(aka PhotoDB2). Prvnim krokem pro import stavajicich dat je jejich
uvedeni do stavu, kdy jsou aspon castecne pouzitelna a na to budu
potrebovat v ruznych pripadech kontaktovat autory fotek.

Proto prosim o kontrolu vaseho uctu v teto tabulce:

https://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/photodb2/import.php?stat.author

Prvni sloupec je autor dle DB z api.openstreetmap.cz (po
upravach/slouceni) zrejmych preklepu apod, druhy je odhadnuty OSM nick
- ten je pro mne kvuli komunikaci stezejni, posledni je pocet fotek
daneho cloveka. Podivejte se prosim jestli (pokud nahravate fotky) v
tabulce jste a sedi obe vase jmena a zaroven nejste v tabulce vickrat.
Pokud je neco spatne, poslete mi prosim spravne info do mailu (neni
treba do konference at neplevelime).

Pro pripadne zajemce jsou stavajici (pracovni, zatim nic pro finalni
uzivatele) skripty na https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/PhotoDB2.

Diky moc tom.k.

P.S.: Nepiste mi prosim, ze se mam radeji s wallym dohodnout a
spolupracovat, uz jsem promrhal prilis mnoho casu kdyz jsem se o to
snazil a nefunguje to.

___
Talk-cz mailing list
Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz
"___
Talk-cz mailing list
Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 03.07.2018 13:22, Dave F wrote:

Great, but why the objection to a mechanical edit, rather than individually? Doing it one by one 
still updates the last_modified attribute.


it should be updated when the object is touched individually anyway, thus not spoiling the history 
with unnecessary bulk edits that do not improve the data themselves.


tom

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[Talk-cz] Kontrola uctu pro fotky rozcestniku

[Tom Ka]

Ahoj,

vzhledem k tomu, ze walleyho system pro fotky dlouhodobe nefunguje
tak, aby byl pro mne pouzitelny a s walleym se nejsem schopen
dohodnout na nejake zmene, rozhodl jsem se udelat si system vlastni
(aka PhotoDB2). Prvnim krokem pro import stavajicich dat je jejich
uvedeni do stavu, kdy jsou aspon castecne pouzitelna a na to budu
potrebovat v ruznych pripadech kontaktovat autory fotek.

Proto prosim o kontrolu vaseho uctu v teto tabulce:

https://osm.fit.vutbr.cz/photodb2/import.php?stat.author

Prvni sloupec je autor dle DB z api.openstreetmap.cz (po
upravach/slouceni) zrejmych preklepu apod, druhy je odhadnuty OSM nick
- ten je pro mne kvuli komunikaci stezejni, posledni je pocet fotek
daneho cloveka. Podivejte se prosim jestli (pokud nahravate fotky) v
tabulce jste a sedi obe vase jmena a zaroven nejste v tabulce vickrat.
Pokud je neco spatne, poslete mi prosim spravne info do mailu (neni
treba do konference at neplevelime).

Pro pripadne zajemce jsou stavajici (pracovni, zatim nic pro finalni
uzivatele) skripty na https://openstreetmap.cz/git/tom.k/PhotoDB2.

Diky moc tom.k.

P.S.: Nepiste mi prosim, ze se mam radeji s wallym dohodnout a
spolupracovat, uz jsem promrhal prilis mnoho casu kdyz jsem se o to
snazil a nefunguje to.

___
Talk-cz mailing list
Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 03.07.2018 12:44, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

Not skill but knowledge - that fixme and FIXME have exactly the same meaning > 
I hoped that that in this case there will be no controversy at all and this minor 
duplication


On 03.07.2018 12:52, Dave F wrote:
> All the editors need to be checked to see if they're adding FIXME as default.

Yes, thus the logical consequence is that tickets are opened with the major 
editors,
to include that in the validators, and remind the users to fix the underlying 
issue.
When the object is edited without removing the fixme/FIXME, the validator could lowercase it while 
saving the object anyway.


This process was done with other tags that were found unnecessary, such as _created_by_ on objects, 
and very successful without bloating the history.


tom

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Dave F]

Hi Michael...

On 03/07/2018 00:23, Michael Reichert wrote:

Hi Mateusz,

Am 02.07.2018 um 19:42 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny:

Please comment - especially if there are any problems with this idea.
Please also comment if you support this edit, in case of no response
at all edit will not be made as there would be no evidence that
this idea is supported.

There are 177,152 FIXME and 1,216,043 fixme according to Taginfo. I did
not have a closer look on the average age of FIXMEs and fixmes.

What's the benefit in this mechanical edit? It just sets the
last_modified attribute to a recent date and data consumers, mappers and
QA tools get the impression that the object is not old.


This is not a valid reason to not update: 'tagging incorrectly to suit 
the validator/renderer...' etc



FIXME should make alarm bells ring in validator tools because its key
only contains uppercase characters.


Editors should have that alarm to prevent them being added in the first 
place.



If you want to search for uses of FIXME, use the OSM Inspector. It
supports FIXME case-insensitive for about ten years now (even our new
C++ implementation does). It does not matter if you write FiXmE,
or FixmE. Btw, todo=* (lower case only) is also supported.


Great, but why the objection to a mechanical edit, rather than 
individually? Doing it one by one still updates the last_modified 
attribute.



DaveF

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Dave F]

Hi
You beat me to it!
I haven't read the whole thread.

I came across this irritating anomaly last week & thought it would be 
good to update.


That there are entities with both variations indicates a problem within 
the database & is not a valid reason to not amend.


All the editors need to be checked to see if they're adding FIXME as 
default.


DaveF

On 02/07/2018 18:42, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

fixme tag is a standard way to mark fixmes.
Editors wishing to finish mapping in their area would (directly or
indirectly, for example using JOSM) look through objects tagged with
fixme tags.

FIXME tag is an unexpected way to mark fixmes, retagging this duplicate to
fixme key would improve tagging without any information loss.

It would make development of QA tools easier as authors would not need to
discover and implement support for this duplicated key.

Between X and Y objects are expected to be edited. See
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/FIXME#map for a
geographic distribution.

Changeset would be split into small areas to avoid continent-sized
bounding boxes. As this tag may be on extremely large objects (for 
example relations representing long routes) it may be unavoidable to 
make some edits with very large bounding boxes.


For documentation page see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account/moving_FIXME_to_fixme
For documentation of my previous proposals (including both proposals
that failed to be approved and approved ones) see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Mateusz_Konieczny_-_bot_account

Please comment - especially if there are any problems with this idea.
Please also comment if you support this edit, in case of no response
at all edit will not be made as there would be no evidence that
this idea is supported.


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Mateusz Konieczny]

3. Lipiec 2018 12:26 od t.pfei...@computer.org :

>  > Removing the FIXME tag reduces the learning curve for map editors. 
> What specific skill is to be learned here?




Not skill but knowledge - that fixme and FIXME have exactly the same meaning.



> On 03.07.2018 09:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>> - removes common duplicate confusing people
>
> I'm getting the impression that we cannot find agreements on more important 
> confusions (grass and forest landuse/landcover for example), so we start 
> looking at such decorative issues?
>




I hoped that that in this case there will be no controversy at all and this 
minor duplication

(one of many) can be eliminated without any XXL sized discussions.





 


> Fully agree. As the wiki page says: "This is not a tag for robots nor for any 
> automated edits" - that should apply to both, the problem the individual 
> fixme/FIXME marks, and the tag itself.
>




It is reminder that this tag should not be added by bot (fixme="opening hours 
missings").




I would not interpret it as 100% ban on any automated editing that is related 
to fixme tags.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[Talk-lt] Pastatai 2018

[Tomas Straupis]

Sveiki

  Naujas įrašas apie pastatų OpenStreetMap kiekį. Palyginimas su GDR'u:
  https://blog.openmap.lt/2018/07/02/pastatai-2018/

  Jei imtume plotus, pažymėtus kaip landuse=residential, kurie neturi
nei vieno pastato (kandidatai vietų, kur trūksta pastatų), tai gauname
tokius lyderiaujančius plotus:

  Vilniaus apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/228932107
  Kauno apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/189195507
  Klaipėdos apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/268117423
  Panevėžio apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/143295165
  Šiaulių apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/517272358
  Alytaus apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/131544844
  Marijampolės apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/116888107
  Tauragės apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/76243119
  Utenos apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/190669050
  Telšių apskritis: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/145774115

-- 
Tomas

___
Talk-lt mailing list
Talk-lt@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-lt

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 03.07.2018 11:48, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

see http://taghistory.raifer.tech
It [FIXME] was quickly growing up to 2013, slowed later and and since 2017 
usage is decreasing.


Fine, so let it die peacefully.

Interestingly, 'FIXME' behaves more naturally, while 'fixme' shows a lot of 
import activities.
Quite visible if you add first 'FIXME' than 'fixme' to http://taghistory.raifer.tech/, so you see 
the latter in the zoom for the former. (hit 'reset zoom' to change the ceiling then).


tom

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 03.07.2018 04:33, Jason Remillard wrote:> ... and I was quite surprised to find that FIXME> (an 
invalid key) was so prevalent in the database.

Who declared the uppercase version invalid? Where is the discussion to 
deprecate it?

The English fixme wiki page still declares "Alternate forms include FIXME=*"

Removing the FIXME tag reduces the learning curve for map editors. 


What specific skill is to be learned here?

> All of the editors have single-click access to the full history of the object, changes to the 
last modified time or last modified user isn't that big a deal for experienced editors.


To check the object history is something the new user learns later, so first she sees an object 
touched recently by an automated tool, and trusts its correctness.


On 03.07.2018 06:12, Yves wrote:
> I second Tom and Mikael, maybe a kind of rédaction to keep the date could be 
done? Not sure it's
> worth the effort though.

Thanks, but the effort would be even larger than a bot edit; and I agree with you and Fred that its 
not worth it.


On 03.07.2018 09:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> - removes common duplicate confusing people

I'm getting the impression that we cannot find agreements on more important confusions (grass and 
forest landuse/landcover for example), so we start looking at such decorative issues?


On 03.07.2018 10:12, Ed Loach wrote:
> ... FIXME pre-dates the fixme wiki proposal (if you dig out the proposal you'll see a discussion 
on the talk page about FIXME vs fixme when FIXME was still in the majority if you excluded an import 
which added 140,000 fixme entries) - indeed I didn’t even know there was a wiki proposal. The 
discussion on that wiki talk page decided it didn’t really matter about the case if I recall 
rightly, or this change would have been done years ago.


Ed, your analysis is correct, and probably people used the 'shouting' uppercase for FIXME so it 
jumps into the eye of the next editor more easily.


On 03.07.2018 10:56, Lester Caine wrote:
> On 03/07/18 09:28, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> Don't forget that new FIXMEs will continue to appear all the time.
>> Software should be able to deal with both.
>
> I'm with you on this Frederik. The correct fix for a 'FIXME' tag is to deal 
with it or remove it
> completely if no longer valid, and adding extra change events to 'fixme' only gets in the way of 
that.


Fully agree. As the wiki page says: "This is not a tag for robots nor for any automated edits" - 
that should apply to both, the problem the individual fixme/FIXME marks, and the tag itself.


tom


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-it-trentino] Sviluppo app navigatore per osm

[denis_dandrea]

Per me OK.

Ci vediamo.

> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 09:02:48 +0200
> 
> From: Alessandro Vitali 
> To: OpenStreetMap Italy regional talk list for Trentino - Lista
> regionale del Trentino 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-it-trentino] Sviluppo app navigatore per osm
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Allora ragazzi direi di fissare l'incontro per domani, mercoledì 4 luglio.
> Facciamo dalle 18 alle 20??
> 
> Direi, se a Cristian sta bene, di fare a casa mia in modo che ci sia un
> computer di comodo utilizzo... via Giuseppe Gozzer 17/b. Il mio numero è
> 3337326142.
> 
> Attendo vostre!
> Ale Vit
> 
> Il giorno 29 giugno 2018 21:34, Dario Zontini  ha
> scritto:
> 
> 
___
Talk-it-trentino mailing list
Talk-it-trentino@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it-trentino

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Mateusz Konieczny]

3. Lipiec 2018 11:38 od md...@xs4all.nl :


> On 2018-07-03 11:23, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
>> 3. Lipiec 2018 10:36 od >> md...@xs4all.nl >> :
>>
>>> What will prevent users from adding FIXME tags in the future?
>>
>> Nothing, users may add any tags. It is impossible to change that by
>> edits.
>
> Then the proposed mechanical edit is useless.




For start, see http://taghistory.raifer.tech  - 
FIXME tag usage is not growing at this moment.




It was quickly growing up to 2013, slowed later and and since 2017 usage is 
decreasing.




Also, going by that logic any improvements or changes are useless as may need 
to be repeated

in a future.
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Maarten Deen]

On 2018-07-03 11:23, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

3. Lipiec 2018 10:36 od md...@xs4all.nl:


What will prevent users from adding FIXME tags in the future?


Nothing, users may add any tags. It is impossible to change that by
edits.


Then the proposed mechanical edit is useless. It will have to be 
repeated periodically, and I don't think that should be how we do QC for 
this problem.
If this is a problem, it needs to be fixed at the root (change the API 
to accept lowercase keys only or change every key to lowercase on 
upload) and then corrected (this proposed mechanical edit).


Regards,
Maarten

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Mateusz Konieczny]

3. Lipiec 2018 10:36 od md...@xs4all.nl :


> What will prevent users from adding FIXME tags in the future?




Nothing, users may add any tags. It is impossible to change that by edits.


 

> What happens to the tools that read FIXME tags in the meanwhile?




Tools that process both FIXME and fixme will be unaffected. 


Tools that process solely FIXME are broken already.

 


> I just tried, JOSM hapilly accept fixme and FIXME on the same node.
> This edit has not much use when that remains the case.
>




JOSM allows to add any tags. For example one may add dhhs=487847dhh tag using 
JOSM.

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[Talk-GB] MapThePaths update: live edit of designation and prow_ref

[Nick Whitelegg]

Hi,


Another update to MapThePaths - you can now perform live OSM edits of the 
designation and prow_ref tags of ways.


You need to login with your OSM account, select 'Edit' and then zoom in to the 
highest level.

The live OSM data is overlaid on the council data when in live edit mode - 
apologies if this is a bit unclear, still trying to figure out a way to nicely 
show both layers.


Note that if you are not in an OGL council area, it will not allow you to do 
any editing.


This is worked out by calculating what council paths are within the bounding 
box of the OSM way. If there is at least one OGL council path and zero non-OGL 
paths, you're allowed to edit it.


Reminder of URL - www.mapthepaths.org.uk/



Nick

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths - updates

[Nick Whitelegg]

OK. Will modify MapThePaths to show the parish ID as well as the actual 
reference number.


Nick



From: Roger Calvert 
Sent: 02 July 2018 19:20:20
To: Nick Whitelegg; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths - updates

Thanks, Nick. In fact Barry shows all 6 figures, but with a gap between the 
parish prefix and the PROW reference number.

Regards,

Roger

On 02/07/2018 18:24, Nick Whitelegg wrote:


Hello Roger,


Yes, I think I've noticed the 6-figure PROW IDs when I've been in the Lake 
District.

The IDs I use are those that Barry Cornelius (rowmaps) uses, as my data is 
taken from his site. Not sure if he has access to the full IDs, but it's worth 
contacting him as he would probably know - his site is rowmaps.com.


Nick


From: Roger Calvert 
Sent: 02 July 2018 11:17:47
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths - updates

I have found a difference in the references given in Map The Paths my area from 
that on the local authority maps, and I suspect it is universal.

The paths are given with a 3 figure reference, but on the maps issued by the 
Lake District National Park Authority to volunteer footpath surveyors, they 
have a 6 figure reference, the first three referring to the Civil Parish in 
which they lie. (The LDNPA maintains footpaths in the National Park under 
contract with Cumbria County Council.)

For example, OSM way 2186193630 coincides with footpath reference 049 in Lowick 
parish, but is numbered 551049 on the LDNPA map. All paths in Lowick are 
prefixed 551. Where this path crosses into the next parish (Blawith and 
Subberthwaite) it becomes ref 016 on Map The Paths, but is 505016 on the LDNPA 
map. All paths in this parish are prefixed 505.

The 3 figure references are certainly re-used in different parishes. For 
example, there is a bridleway (OSM 54189587)  also with the reference 016 
(539016) less than 2 km away in the adjoining Kirkby Ireleth parish (it becomes 
505023 where it crosses into Blawith and Subberthwaite, and I have spotted 
another 023 a few miles away in adjoining Colton parish), so that confusion is 
certainly possible.

I do not know whether these parish prefixes are available under a suitable 
license, but if they are, I think they would be a useful addition to the Map 
The Paths references.

Regards,

Rogerc
--


Roger Calvert


--


Roger Calvert

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-it-trentino] Sviluppo app navigatore per osm

[Renato Conotter]

Scusate intervengo solo ora.
Noi (vvf) usiamo questo tablet da un anno. lo sviluppatore della app di
emergenza che poi attiva il navigatore permette più scelta. Noi abbiamo
usato per un bel po' Waze. Ed in centrale la cartografia di riferimento è
OSM (su mia richiesta)
La gestione del dato cartografico è un bagno di sangue!
Tutto ciò detto domani non ci posso essere ma volentieri vorrei incontrarci.

Renato Conotter
www.conotter.net
xcover3

Il mar 3 lug 2018, 09:03 Alessandro Vitali  ha
scritto:

> Allora ragazzi direi di fissare l'incontro per domani, mercoledì 4 luglio.
> Facciamo dalle 18 alle 20??
>
> Direi, se a Cristian sta bene, di fare a casa mia in modo che ci sia un
> computer di comodo utilizzo... via Giuseppe Gozzer 17/b. Il mio numero è
> 3337326142.
>
>
> Attendo vostre!
> Ale Vit
>
>
> Il giorno 29 giugno 2018 21:34, Dario Zontini 
> ha scritto:
>
>> Io sono un po' troppo lontano per partecipare, ma vi seguirò con
>> interesse
>>
>> Il ven 29 giu 2018, 16:07 Alessandro Vitali  ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>> Ciao ragazzi,
>>>
>>> il 13 giugno io, Denis e Federico (un collega di Cavalese, che legge in
>>> copia) abbiamo fatto il primo incontro. Ci siamo confrontati e discusso
>>> sui seguenti argomenti:
>>>
>>> - strumenti e modalità di aggiornamento di osm (osmhydrant, josm,
>>> vespucci, osmand, ecc...)
>>> - cosa sono gli stili di josm per estrapolare ed ottenere carte cartacee
>>> utili per i mezzi di emergenza
>>> - cosa sono le query per estrapolare dati con overpass turbo
>>>
>>> Abbiamo concluso (correggimi Denis se sbaglio) che in questo gruppo ci
>>> sono diverse persone che hanno conoscenze approfondite sia sugli stili che
>>> sulle query, conoscenze che a noi mancano...
>>>
>>> Fare gruppo sarebbe sicuramente utile per raggiungere alcuni obbiettivi,
>>> quali:
>>> - completare più velocemente la mappatura delle vie e civici della bassa
>>> valsugana
>>> - creare uno stile/query con quale poter estrapolare i dati necessari
>>> per creare mappe cartacee dei vari paesi/frazioni mappati. Le mappe
>>> verrebbero poi stampate e messe in dotazione delle varie ambulanze di
>>> trentino emergenza... e, perchè no, anche degli altri servizi di emergenza
>>> di zona.
>>> - capire come stimolare l'implementazione dei dati OSM sui futuri Tablet
>>> di cui verranno dotate le ambulanze di Trentino Emergenza
>>>
>>>
>>> Per questo io e Cristian siamo qui a proporvi un paio di date di luglio
>>> per un possibile secondo incontro:
>>> *- mercoledì 4 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00*
>>> *- giovedì 5 dalle 16.30 alle 20.00 *
>>>
>>> *Ecco il Doodle per decidere la data: 
>>> **https://doodle.com/poll/bwdsieq6sgwrbdu7
>>> *
>>> *Indicate se avete un orario preferito...*
>>>
>>> Grazie ancora!!
>>> Aspettiamo vostre disponibilità!!
>>>
>>> Ale Vit
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno 25 maggio 2018 17:38, Alessandro Vitali 
>>> ha scritto:
>>>
 Grazie per le risposte.

 Faccio una serie di premesse vista dal mio luogo di lavoro:
 - nelle periferie del Trentino le informazioni per raggiungere il
 target sono ancora molto "paesane"... "è la casa dopo la stalla di Tizio
 che è il fratello di Caio", oppure "è la stalla di Caio che si trova sulla
 via del Menador dopo la lunga siepe, prima della caso dello zio di
 Trentin". Con la forte crescita che il trentino ha avuto negli ultimi 10
 anni ci sono molte zone edificate non mappate e, tenuto conto che il
 sistema 118 negli ultimi 5 anni ha assunto circa 90 autisti (buona parte di
 fuori provincia) ed ha avviato da poco un nuovo concorso per altre
 assunzioni, quelle indicazioni che vengono date dalla popolazione per
 raggiungere i target ora risultano poco utili. Noi neo assunti non siamo
 cresciuti in questa società e non possiamo conoscere i legami di parentela
 tra i vari cittadini... anche per questo c'è la necessità di avere una base
 cartografica chiara, condivisa, aggiornata e facilmente consultabile.
 Questo ora non c'è!
 - la centrale operativa 118 ha la possibilità di consultare le mappe
 google, in raster OSM e altre. Non ti so però dare dati precisi in merito.
 - da ignorante, io non credo che OSM possa sostituire una cartografia
 gestita e certificata da un ministero ma, se usato con intelligenza, può
 essere di grande aiuto. Questo perchè può essere aggiornato con estrema
 facilità dagli utenti che lavorano direttamente sul campo rendendo più
 identificabili quelle aree che, per usanza popolare, vengono chiamate con
 nomi tipici. Da OSM poi si potrebbero produrre mappe cartacee aggiornate
 (strumento basilare per la nostra attività) dato che, data la particolarità
 del territorio, quelle disponibili sono più turistiche che stradali.
 La presenza poi di 1000 piccoli comuni (che oltretutto negli ultimi
 anni hanno rivoluzionato i nomi delle vie ed i civici) e 1
 frazioni/masi/località non rende la nostra vita 

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Lester Caine]

On 03/07/18 09:28, Frederik Ramm wrote:

On 02.07.2018 19:42, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:

It would make development of QA tools easier as authors would not need to
discover and implement support for this duplicated key.

I think the downsides of such a large mechanical edit far outweigh the
advantages.

Don't forget that new FIXMEs will continue to appear all the time.

Software should be able to deal with both.


I'm with you on this Frederik. The correct fix for a 'FIXME' tag is to 
deal with it or remove it completely if no longer valid, and adding 
extra change events to 'fixme' only gets in the way of that.


IF there is a general consensus that some tags are no longer acceptable, 
then the first step is to fix the API to prevent their use? Once the 
source of the problem is eliminated THEN address the historic data.


Is there any case for not enforcing lowercase only tags? The fact that 
'FIXME' and 'fixme' can exist on the same node just seems wrong in ANY case?


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[_ dikkeknodel]

Ed wrote:

> though perhaps notes make more sense than hiding things in tags and instead 
> of changing case the proposal should be to extract the FIXME's to notes to 
> increase their visibility.

For me notes are often much less informative than fixme tags. Because the fixme 
tag is on the entity requiring fix, there is no discussion required about what 
entity is meant. Also, when the entity requiring fix is re-aligned by some 
mapper without handling the note, the descrepancy between the entity and the 
note make become bigger.

For me notes and fixmes are different things.
fixme is used between fellow mappers to indicate missing or incorrect data, 
like the endnode of a highway with fixme=continue is very clear that it 
requires a survey on where the highway goes
notes can be used by anybody on openstreetmap.org, and typically require more 
info.

Cheers,
dikkeknodel
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Maarten Deen]

On 2018-07-03 09:49, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:


Now that I know about existence of FIXME tag I can add support for it
in my tools at 1% of cost of going through mechanical edit.

The entire point is not to support may particular usecase, the point
is to save people in future from spending time on handling tag 
duplication.


What will prevent users from adding FIXME tags in the future? Do you 
propose to redo this mechanical edit periodically? What happens to the 
tools that read FIXME tags in the meanwhile?


I can't find anything on case for the key, but general concensus is that 
it should be in lowercase (which makes sense), but IMHO tools should be 
liberal in what they accept as input, so I would always search case 
insensitive if I were to look for something.


IMHO before we do this edit (which in my eyes should be unneccessary), 
we should have concensus on the case of the FIXME tag in OSM (and indeed 
any tag) and have all editors adehere to that standard. I just tried, 
JOSM hapilly accept fixme and FIXME on the same node.

This edit has not much use when that remains the case.

Regards,
Maarten

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 02.07.2018 19:42, Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
> It would make development of QA tools easier as authors would not need to
> discover and implement support for this duplicated key.

I think the downsides of such a large mechanical edit far outweigh the
advantages.

Don't forget that new FIXMEs will continue to appear all the time.

Software should be able to deal with both.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Ed Loach]

Mateusz wrote:

> Also, OSM Inspector anyway is not useful at all for offline tag listing on 
> map 
> during survey, on a phone (my particular usecase).

Funnily enough I've added FIXME tags when out surveying with my phone 
(Vespucci). FIXME pre-dates the fixme wiki proposal (if you dig out the 
proposal you'll see a discussion on the talk page about FIXME vs fixme when 
FIXME was still in the majority if you excluded an import which added 140,000 
fixme entries) - indeed I didn’t even know there was a wiki proposal. The 
discussion on that wiki talk page decided it didn’t really matter about the 
case if I recall rightly, or this change would have been done years ago. If the 
edit does go ahead then I'll try and remember to use fixme, though perhaps 
notes make more sense than hiding things in tags and instead of changing case 
the proposal should be to extract the FIXME's to notes to increase their 
visibility.

Ed


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths - updates

[Adam Snape]

Sorry,

I mean to say we need a way to tag this 'name format' (official_name
perhaps? Or prow_name...)

Kind regards,

Adam

On 3 July 2018 at 09:09, Adam Snape  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Very. very few Defiunitive statements include arcane numeric references
> like that. They almost always use the parish name and path number eg.
> Newton Footpath 1. I think we really this 'name' format as it is something
> we could consistently do nationally.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Adam
>
> On 2 July 2018 at 23:44, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
> robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2 July 2018 at 11:17, Roger Calvert  wrote:
>> > I have found a difference in the references given in Map The Paths my
>> area
>> > from that on the local authority maps, and I suspect it is universal.
>> >
>> > The paths are given with a 3 figure reference, but on the maps issued
>> by the
>> > Lake District National Park Authority to volunteer footpath surveyors,
>> they
>> > have a 6 figure reference, the first three referring to the Civil
>> Parish in
>> > which they lie. (The LDNPA maintains footpaths in the National Park
>> under
>> > contract with Cumbria County Council.)
>>
>> On rowmaps, there's a standardised format whereby the parish
>> name/number goes in one field and the path number goes in another. The
>> display then joins them back together again with a space. Different
>> counties use different formats for combining the numbers, possibly
>> using a slash of dash between them, or possibly including the parish
>> name rather than a parish number. It's also possible that the format
>> used in the GIS data is not the actual legal format used in the
>> Definitive Map and Statement, i.e. the parish numbers might just be an
>> internal convenience. The interpretation of the rowmaps data therefore
>> needs a bit of care.
>>
>> In the case of Cumbria, I've just made an FOI/EIR request for a list
>> of the parish names corresponding to the numbers, and asked whether
>> the numbers are used in the Definitive Statement. See
>> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_rights_of_way_gis_data_5
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>> --
>> Robert Whittaker
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] MapThePaths - updates

[Adam Snape]

Hi,

Very. very few Defiunitive statements include arcane numeric references
like that. They almost always use the parish name and path number eg.
Newton Footpath 1. I think we really this 'name' format as it is something
we could consistently do nationally.

Kind regards,

Adam

On 2 July 2018 at 23:44, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2 July 2018 at 11:17, Roger Calvert  wrote:
> > I have found a difference in the references given in Map The Paths my
> area
> > from that on the local authority maps, and I suspect it is universal.
> >
> > The paths are given with a 3 figure reference, but on the maps issued by
> the
> > Lake District National Park Authority to volunteer footpath surveyors,
> they
> > have a 6 figure reference, the first three referring to the Civil Parish
> in
> > which they lie. (The LDNPA maintains footpaths in the National Park under
> > contract with Cumbria County Council.)
>
> On rowmaps, there's a standardised format whereby the parish
> name/number goes in one field and the path number goes in another. The
> display then joins them back together again with a space. Different
> counties use different formats for combining the numbers, possibly
> using a slash of dash between them, or possibly including the parish
> name rather than a parish number. It's also possible that the format
> used in the GIS data is not the actual legal format used in the
> Definitive Map and Statement, i.e. the parish numbers might just be an
> internal convenience. The interpretation of the rowmaps data therefore
> needs a bit of care.
>
> In the case of Cumbria, I've just made an FOI/EIR request for a list
> of the parish names corresponding to the numbers, and asked whether
> the numbers are used in the Definitive Statement. See
> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_rights_of_way_gis_data_5
>
> Robert.
>
> --
> Robert Whittaker
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [OSM-ja] State of the Map Japan 2018 参加登録開始！

[Zoar.]

ぞあ.@OSMFJです。

ribbonさん、なおやさん、ご指摘ありがとうございます。

イベントサイトにあるタイムテーブルのスタイルを修正しました。

イベントサイトをご覧いただいた方にはご不便をおかけしましたがタイムテー
ブルの幅がブラウザのウィンドウ幅を超えないようになっているかと思います。


皆様、ぜひ日比谷でお会いしましょう。


On 2018/07/02 22:53, なおや wrote:

ribbonさん

なおやです。

私も見られませんでした。
表示を何回か縮小して全体が見られるようになりました。

mac / chrome です。

ご参考まで。

2018年7月2日(月) 21:48 ribbon :


On Mon, Jul 02, 2018 at 02:51:07PM +0900, Satoshi IIDA wrote:


また、当日のタイムスケジュールも公開しました。
日本各地、さまざまな場所からの講演となっていて、たいへん楽しみです！

https://stateofthemap.jp/2018/


これなんですが、Windows 10上の Firefox/IE11/Edgeで見ると、タイムテーブルの
右側が切れて見えません。
スクロールバーも表示されないので、内容を確認できない状況です。

ribbon

___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja






--
Twitter : @ex_zoar
OSM: http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?k_zoar

___
Talk-ja mailing list
Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja

Re: [OSM-talk] proposed mechanical edit - moving FIXME=* to fixme=*

[Mateusz Konieczny]

3. Lipiec 2018 01:23 od osm...@michreichert.de :

>
> What's the benefit in this mechanical edit? It just sets the
> last_modified attribute to a recent date and data consumers, mappers and
> QA tools get the impression that the object is not old.
>



- removes common duplicate confusing people
- removes common duplicate requiring special support in anything processing 
fixme tags


 

> If you want to search for uses of FIXME, use the OSM Inspector. 




Now that I know about existence of FIXME tag I can add support for it in my 
tools

at 1% of cost of going through mechanical edit.




The entire point is not to support may particular usecase, the point is to save

people in future from spending time on handling tag duplication.




Also, OSM Inspector anyway is not useful at all for offline tag listing on map 


during survey, on a phone (my particular usecase).


 


> Fixmes tend to become the new trash piles in our streets. Lets go out
> and fix them (yeah, the map is quite/too full of them).
>




That is exactly what I was doing when I discovered that FIXME tag exists.

 

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[Talk-us] Talks and Scholarship Submissions Extended SOTM-US

[Kate Chapman]

Hi All,

We've extended the call for participation and scholarships until July 14th
for SOTM-US.

http://2018.stateofthemap.us/

State of the Map US is an annual gathering of volunteers, mappers,
organizations and businesses who collaborate and work with OpenStreetMap.
This year we are getting together in Detroit on October 5th until the 7th.

Scholarships are intended for anyone who might not otherwise be able to
attend. So if you are thinking "wow, I'd love to go to SOTM-US, but I don't
see how I can afford it!" Then apply for a scholarship. You probably also
have something you want to share with the OSM-US community, so submit a
talk too!

If you have any questions or just want some help formulating a talk
proposal feel free to reach out directly to me.

Thanks!

-Kate
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us