date:20180128

OK, I've redacted Halifax changes.  From four to three (municipalities with 
license now "green.")
Steve

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 7:39 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> 
> On 2018-01-28 09:16 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
>> Halifax also looks like it grants explicit permission.
> 
> still needs an approved import procedure and approaching LWG for
> approval - so it's not good to go by any means
> 
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

On 2018-01-28 04:21 PM, Matthew Darwin wrote:
> 
> Here is the licence (Federal): 
> http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada

Here are some of the problems with that licence, in as many other
people's word's as possible:

* Like the OGL-UK, it doesn't deal with third-party rights. This is a
problem:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2016-September/008541.html

* Unlike the OGL-UK, the TB licence doesn't have a compatibility clause.
The UK licence includes this clause:

> “These terms are compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution
> License 4.0 and the Open Data Commons Attribution License, both of
> which license copyright and database rights. This means that when the
> Information is adapted and licensed under either of those licences,
> you automatically satisfy the conditions of the OGL when you comply
> with the other licence. The OGLv3.0 is Open Definition compliant.”

The Canadian licence gives no such assurance.

* Unlike the OGL-UK, the licence doesn't cover the whole public sector.
This from personal communication from Simon Poole of the OSM
Foundation's legal team from March 2017:

>> [The Ontario and Toronto licences] illustrate why we didn't want
>> to make a blanket statement wrt OGL licence variants in CA and why
>> in general the situation is a bit of a mess.

It's also worth playing with CLIPOL - http://clipol.org/ - to see how
badly myriad open data licences work together.

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 project

I think we can politely re-factor out much stuff.  :-)   Now that we 
seem to have more folks looking into things, I am a bit more motivated 
to spend time on it.


Tech writer type folks would be great to have.


Matthew Darwin
matt...@mdarwin.ca
http://www.mdarwin.ca

On 2018-01-28 09:21 PM, john whelan wrote:

I've added an introduction which sums it up.

If I'm polite about it there is material in the wiki which suggest 
bringing building footprints using automated tools such as image 
scanners and imports are the way forward.  Scanning hasn't been 
accepted by OSM and imports have their own set of issuse.  If I'm 
not polite about it there is much that needs to be stripped out.


The text could do with being rewritten.  It appears to me to be long 
winded and aspires to many things but seems short on practicalities.


Do we have any technical writers who could look it over?


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Re: [Talk-ca] Preferred phone number format


Just FYI, I am not doing an automated edit.  One at a time in JOSM.

On 2018-01-28 10:23 PM, Stewart C. Russell wrote:

On 2018-01-28 08:22 PM, Matthew Darwin wrote:

I am wondering if I should have them in the format of "+1 999
555 1234" or "+1-999-555-1234".    If there is no existing preference
adopted in OSM Canada, I will use the latter to cleanup the
non-compliant phone numbers.

Comments?

Please use the ITU standard: it's international, and so are we. You
never know what country an OSM user will be coming from.

The great advantage to having the +1 in a number is that Canadian cell
phones won't give you the stupid "This is a long distance call …" spiel
if you include it.

Thanks for looking at this - but as with any automated edit, please take
care.

  Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

On 2018-01-28 09:16 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
> Halifax also looks like it grants explicit permission.

still needs an approved import procedure and approaching LWG for
approval - so it's not good to go by any means

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

On 2018-01-28 05:19 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
> 
> PLEASE, I ask others to double- or triple- or multiple-check me here!  Do 
> these (local licenses in Canada) reflect the current state of reality?  We 
> (here in talk-ca) believe they do, we (OSM) welcome any updates directly to 
> the Contributors wiki.  Thank you.

vancouver should be green

Cities/provinces that are okay to use should have documentation about
permission and process in the wiki. The Canvec data was an explicit
grant predating the Big OSM Licence Change, and it has no formal import
page because it's so old. Canvec data is now under OGL-CA 2.0, so it's
good, and there are still a couple of people working on the import.

 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] Preferred phone number format

On 2018-01-28 08:22 PM, Matthew Darwin wrote:
> I am wondering if I should have them in the format of "+1 999
> 555 1234" or "+1-999-555-1234".    If there is no existing preference
> adopted in OSM Canada, I will use the latter to cleanup the
> non-compliant phone numbers.
> 
> Comments?

Please use the ITU standard: it's international, and so are we. You
never know what country an OSM user will be coming from.

The great advantage to having the +1 in a number is that Canadian cell
phones won't give you the stupid "This is a long distance call …" spiel
if you include it.

Thanks for looking at this - but as with any automated edit, please take
care.

 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 project

I've added an introduction which sums it up.

If I'm polite about it there is material in the wiki which suggest bringing
building footprints using automated tools such as image scanners and
imports are the way forward.  Scanning hasn't been accepted by OSM and
imports have their own set of issuse.  If I'm not polite about it there is
much that needs to be stripped out.

The text could do with being rewritten.  It appears to me to be long winded
and aspires to many things but seems short on practicalities.

Do we have any technical writers who could look it over?

Thanks

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 19:50, OSM Volunteer stevea  wrote:

> And...you're off and running (better and better).
>
> This is a process, everybody.  Nobody wants to be slapping anybody
> around.  I like the way we've been polite and patient with each other here.
>
> Regards,
> SteveA
>
> > On Jan 28, 2018, at 4:47 PM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:
> >
> > Inline
> > On 2018-01-28 07:38 PM, john whelan wrote:
> >> We have lots of people talking about this.
> >
> > Yay!
> >
> >> We have a wiki page somewhere that covers some ground.  Could someone
> remind me of the address?
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/
> Building_Canada_2020
> >
> > needs lots of improvements.  I started.  I see Steve A did a bunch as
> well.
> >
> >>
> >> Do we have anyone willing to project manage this? It is a very big
> project with lots of aspects and complications to it.
> >
> > I have not heard of any. I am willing to help some, but it really needs
> to be a full-time person (or bunch of people to make it to full time).
> >
> >>
> >> Do we have a list of attributes that should be added to buildings?  If
> they aren't on the wiki then I think they should be.
> >
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/
> Building_Canada_2020#The_data_being_mapped
> >
> > Although I think the list is impractical... how to get all the
> attributes listed?
> >
> >> I am aware of public wif, levels, use ie commercial, residential.
>  There are some tiles set up somewhere for mapping and validation.
> >>
> >> Could we have a pointer to them please if they aren't on the wiki
> already.
> >>
> >> We have interest from schools and universities do we have any material
> that could be used for them?
> >>
> >> Do we have a "hello to help with this project please use Bing imagery
> with JOSM building_tool plugin on the following tiles.  If you use iD
> please be very careful and map the building outlines exactly."
> >>
> >> and "this is how you add a tag?"
> >>
> > Needs to be added.  The folks doing Ottawa buildings recently probably
> have the best experiences to provide guidence to newbies.  Also probably
> should be a template for the tasking manager to point at.  (For all the
> building related tasks).
> >
> > If the Ottawa/Gatineau experience teaches us anything, I suspect that
> doing buildings is going to be a multi-step process per
> municipality/region/province.   Import stuff, manually map stuff, add more
> tags, whatever...  ie going from zero buildings to "perfect" buildings in
> one shot is not reasonable.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

Halifax also looks like it grants explicit permission.  Cautiously, I change 
Halifax to green (and remove strikeout type in Contributors), as I don't think 
we need LWG to "offer benediction" when the owner of the data grants explicit 
permission, as this link appears to do.  If I'm wrong about that, please 
revert.  If I'm correct and you know it or also feel this is true (I've done 
similar things in the USA with explicit permission, as from our AASHTO on 
national routes) then please remove "ARE WE SURE?" on the Contributors page.  
Thank you.

Up to four municipalities, now.  Thanks to great teamwork for a productive 
weekend, everybody.  See you around.

SteveA
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[Talk-ca] Fwd: Re: Building Canada 2020 (BC2020i) - update Dec 20, 2017


Forward from a very long distribution list:


Hi J,

So you are not aware of any Indigenous communities engaged with OSM 
anywhere in Canada? It would be great if OSM could be introduced to 
Indigenous community members so they can help define a direction.  
Since you have contacts, can you help doing introductions?  I am 
assuming you are part of the OSM community already?   How would you 
propose creating a working group?


Also can we move this discussion to the OSM Canada mailing list?  
There is an active discussion on the building initiative there.  Maybe 
others know about Indigenous activities already?



On 2018-01-26 02:53 PM, J. Hackett wrote:


Hi everyone,

I brought up a few issues surrounding Indigenous engagement at the 
meeting in July.


There still remains no engagement with Indigenous communities 
whatsoever. It is pertinent that if you want to involve the 
Indigenous demographic that an Indigenous Working Group be 
established to develop, plan, and engage with communities in the 
spirit of truth and reconciliqtion, especially in light of the 
recent TRC.


The 2018 Indigenous Mapping Workshop will be hosted in Montreal. It 
might provide a good venue to truly get the conversation/movement 
going forward.


Our tech partners, Google, Esri Canada, and Mapbox, are working with 
us to develop geospatial capacity building within communities; 
therefore, it could be a good opportunity to bridge efforts with the 
100+ communities that will attend the event.


Feel free to reach out to me if there is interest in any partnership 
with our programming in Montreal, QC.


Thanks!


On Fri, Jan 26, 2018, 14:04 Jonathan Brown, > wrote:


I’m a newbie to the wiki and OSM mapathon process. I’m
interested in connecting the open data to the OSM and wiki
process that can be used by K-12 and postsecondary students to
support municipal and regional planning and implementation of
sustainable development goals. Alessandro pointed to the Philly
Fresh Food Mapper as a good example of using OSM to address the
challenge of food security at the local level:
https://www.geovista.psu.edu/phillyfood/

The question is how to sustain these projects once the students
have graduated. I have cced Steve Quinn who provided the GIS/OSM
expertise for that crowdsourcing/citizen science project. He is
still active in organizing mapathon events on Twitter:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SterlingGIS

I have been asked for simple guides that can be used be teachers
that they can incorporate into their lesson plans and that align
with the strategic goals of the K-12 education system they work
within. It would be very helpful if the education wiki included
posters that could be shared with principals, teachers and
community NGO agencies partnering on an event that uses the
BC2020i framework.

Here is an example of how a working team at Brock University put
together resources for a high school data management
prerequisite course:
https://brocku.ca/cmt/mdm4u/asprojects/index.html. I noticed
that the working group did a call out to Joel Yan, Statistics
Canada, for the work he did on making Canadian data available;
and to Stephen Brown, Professor of Statistics at Waterloo, for
his suggestions on restructuring each activity. Professor Andrew
Skelton has taken it one step further by including spatial
analysis with his MDM4U Open Data project in collaboration with
his GIS colleagues: https://mathstat.uoguelph.ca/outreach/opendata

It would be good to see how Josée-Anne Langlois work in the
north with open source mapping tools like GGIS and OSM (see
below) could be combined with open data from the provincial and
federal open data catalogues to create a community profile that
is accessible and engaging for community partners.

Jonathan

*From: *Mikel Maron 
*Sent: *Friday, January 26, 2018 10:37 AM
*To: *Matthew Darwin 
*Cc: *Talk-CA OpenStreetMap ;
Alasia, Alessandro (STATCAN)
; James
; rps...@gmail.com
; jeffrey.hack...@thefirelightgroup.com
;
m...@openconcept.ca ;
mojgan.jad...@gmail.com ; Bacon,
Scott (STATCAN) ;
aaron.ko...@cra-arc.gc.ca ;
tsitsi.gad...@ontario.ca ;
roy.wise...@outlook.com ;
Tweedy, Scott (NRCan/RNCan) ;
tyler.radf...@hotosm.org ;
bruno.st-au...@canada.ca

Re: [Talk-ca] Preferred phone number format

personally I prefer:

RFC 3966/NANP  pattern

as its more commonly used for telephone numbers(less the country
code(unless long distance). Especially in white pages(back in the day we
had paper copies)

On Jan 28, 2018 8:24 PM, "Matthew Darwin"  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there a preferred phone number format we use in Canada?
>
> I noticed a bunch of phone numbers in Ottawa don't follow the
> recommendations in https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phone, namely:
>
>- phone=*number* where the *number* should be in international (ITU-T
>E.164 ) format
>   - phone=+  , following the ITU-T
>   E.123  and the DIN 5008
>    pattern
>   - (phone=+--, following the
>   RFC 3966/NANP  pattern)
>
> Is there a preference which of these formats is used?   Can anyone run a
> query and see which is more popular in the country?
>
> The reason I'm asking is that since a bunch of phone numbers leave off the
> +1 (and have other errors), I want to align them to the recommended
> format.   I am wondering if I should have them in the format of "+1 999 555
> 1234" or "+1-999-555-1234".If there is no existing preference adopted
> in OSM Canada, I will use the latter to cleanup the non-compliant phone
> numbers.
>
> Comments?
>
> I am also assuming we prefer "phone" over "contact:phone" as per
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:contact
>
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[Talk-ca] Preferred phone number format


Hi all,

Is there a preferred phone number format we use in Canada?

I noticed a bunch of phone numbers in Ottawa don't follow the 
recommendations in https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phone, namely:


 * phone=/number/ where the /number/ should be in international
   (ITU-T E.164 ) format
 o phone=+  , following
   the ITU-T E.123  and the
   DIN 5008  pattern
 o (phone=+--, following
   the RFC 3966/NANP  pattern)

Is there a preference which of these formats is used?   Can anyone run 
a query and see which is more popular in the country?


The reason I'm asking is that since a bunch of phone numbers leave off 
the +1 (and have other errors), I want to align them to the 
recommended format.   I am wondering if I should have them in the 
format of "+1 999 555 1234" or "+1-999-555-1234".    If there is no 
existing preference adopted in OSM Canada, I will use the latter to 
cleanup the non-compliant phone numbers.


Comments?

I am also assuming we prefer "phone" over "contact:phone" as per 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:contact


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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 project

And...you're off and running (better and better).

This is a process, everybody.  Nobody wants to be slapping anybody around.  I 
like the way we've been polite and patient with each other here.

Regards,
SteveA

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 4:47 PM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:
> 
> Inline
> On 2018-01-28 07:38 PM, john whelan wrote:
>> We have lots of people talking about this.
> 
> Yay!
> 
>> We have a wiki page somewhere that covers some ground.  Could someone remind 
>> me of the address?
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020
> 
> needs lots of improvements.  I started.  I see Steve A did a bunch as well.
> 
>> 
>> Do we have anyone willing to project manage this? It is a very big project 
>> with lots of aspects and complications to it.
> 
> I have not heard of any. I am willing to help some, but it really needs to be 
> a full-time person (or bunch of people to make it to full time).
> 
>> 
>> Do we have a list of attributes that should be added to buildings?  If they 
>> aren't on the wiki then I think they should be.
> 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020#The_data_being_mapped
> 
> Although I think the list is impractical... how to get all the attributes 
> listed?
> 
>> I am aware of public wif, levels, use ie commercial, residential.   There 
>> are some tiles set up somewhere for mapping and validation.
>> 
>> Could we have a pointer to them please if they aren't on the wiki already.
>> 
>> We have interest from schools and universities do we have any material that 
>> could be used for them?  
>> 
>> Do we have a "hello to help with this project please use Bing imagery with 
>> JOSM building_tool plugin on the following tiles.  If you use iD please be 
>> very careful and map the building outlines exactly."
>> 
>> and "this is how you add a tag?"
>> 
> Needs to be added.  The folks doing Ottawa buildings recently probably have 
> the best experiences to provide guidence to newbies.  Also probably should be 
> a template for the tasking manager to point at.  (For all the building 
> related tasks).
> 
> If the Ottawa/Gatineau experience teaches us anything, I suspect that doing 
> buildings is going to be a multi-step process per 
> municipality/region/province.   Import stuff, manually map stuff, add more 
> tags, whatever...  ie going from zero buildings to "perfect" buildings in one 
> shot is not reasonable.
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 project

Inline

On 2018-01-28 07:38 PM, john whelan wrote:

We have lots of people talking about this.

Yay!

We have a wiki page somewhere that covers some ground. Could
someone remind me of the address?

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020

needs lots of improvements. I started. I see Steve A did a bunch as
well.

Do we have anyone willing to project manage this? It is a very big
project with lots of aspects and complications to it.

I have not heard of any. I am willing to help some, but it really
needs to be a full-time person (or bunch of people to make it to full
time).

Do we have a list of attributes that should be added to buildings?
If they aren't on the wiki then I think they should be.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020#The_data_being_mapped

Although I think the list is impractical... how to get all the
attributes listed?

I am aware of public wif, levels, use ie commercial, residential.
There are some tiles set up somewhere for mapping and validation.

Could we have a pointer to them please if they aren't on the wiki
already.

We have interest from schools and universities do we have any
material that could be used for them?

Do we have a "hello to help with this project please use Bing
imagery with JOSM building_tool plugin on the following tiles. If
you use iD please be very careful and map the building outlines
exactly."

and "this is how you add a tag?"

Needs to be added. The folks doing Ottawa buildings recently probably
have the best experiences to provide guidence to newbies. Also
probably should be a template for the tasking manager to point at.
(For all the building related tasks).

If the Ottawa/Gatineau experience teaches us anything, I suspect that
doing buildings is going to be a multi-step process per
municipality/region/province. Import stuff, manually map stuff, add
more tags, whatever... ie going from zero buildings to "perfect"
buildings in one shot is not reasonable.

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[Talk-ca] BC2020 project

We have lots of people talking about this.

We have a wiki page somewhere that covers some ground.  Could someone
remind me of the address?

Do we have anyone willing to project manage this? It is a very big project
with lots of aspects and complications to it.

Do we have a list of attributes that should be added to buildings?  If they
aren't on the wiki then I think they should be.

I am aware of public wif, levels, use ie commercial, residential.   There
are some tiles set up somewhere for mapping and validation.

Could we have a pointer to them please if they aren't on the wiki already.

We have interest from schools and universities do we have any material that
could be used for them?

Do we have a "hello to help with this project please use Bing imagery with
JOSM building_tool plugin on the following tiles.  If you use iD please be
very careful and map the building outlines exactly."

and "this is how you add a tag?"

Thanks John
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Re: [Talk-ca] Indigenous communities - Building Canada 2020 (BC2020i) - update Dec 20, 2017



Forward from a very long distribution list:


Hi J,

So you are not aware of any Indigenous communities engaged with OSM 
anywhere in Canada? It would be great if OSM could be introduced to 
Indigenous community members so they can help define a direction. 
Since you have contacts, can you help doing introductions?  I am 
assuming you are part of the OSM community already?   How would you 
propose creating a working group?


Also can we move this discussion to the OSM Canada mailing list?  
There is an active discussion on the building initiative there.  Maybe 
others know about Indigenous activities already?



On 2018-01-26 02:53 PM, J. Hackett wrote:


Hi everyone,

I brought up a few issues surrounding Indigenous engagement at the 
meeting in July.


There still remains no engagement with Indigenous communities 
whatsoever. It is pertinent that if you want to involve the 
Indigenous demographic that an Indigenous Working Group be 
established to develop, plan, and engage with communities in the 
spirit of truth and reconciliqtion, especially in light of the 
recent TRC.


The 2018 Indigenous Mapping Workshop will be hosted in Montreal. It 
might provide a good venue to truly get the conversation/movement 
going forward.


Our tech partners, Google, Esri Canada, and Mapbox, are working with 
us to develop geospatial capacity building within communities; 
therefore, it could be a good opportunity to bridge efforts with the 
100+ communities that will attend the event.


Feel free to reach out to me if there is interest in any partnership 
with our programming in Montreal, QC.


Thanks!




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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

Smiling here, thank you for wiki-ing fresher status in both wikis!  (It's quite 
doable, yes?).
Steve

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:
> Great, seems like we have a list of 3 ok ones: 
> Ottawa (approved license)
> Gatineau + Montreal (explicit approval provided)


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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

Great, seems like we have a list of 3 ok ones:

Ottawa (approved license)

Gatineau + Montreal (explicit approval provided)

@James, do we have documentation as to where approval was given? Would 
be good to have this info on the wiki.

Matthew Darwin
matt...@mdarwin.ca
http://www.mdarwin.ca

On 2018-01-28 05:59 PM, James wrote:

LWG blog post about CC-BY

https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/

as long as you have explicit permission to add data from city. It 
become compatible.
I used "may" as in "should remain on the list because explicit 
permission was already obtained."

On Jan 28, 2018 5:53 PM, "OSM Volunteer stevea" 
> wrote:

On Jan 28, 2018, at 2:39 PM, James > wrote:
> CC Attribution is compatible with explicit permission, so
Gatineau and Montreal may remain on the list.

Oh, how I sometimes dislike the word "may!"

I know, I know, our good talk-ca dialog intends to help wider
understanding and consensus.  This can be challenging, lengthy,
repeat-oriented / loquacious and seem like it runs in circles! 
It gets better.

James, I hereby ask you to change status from red to green once
you know.  Perhaps also undo the strikeout type (delete the
 brackets in the markup language) in Contributors for those
two cities, too (updating the one or two lines of text it takes
to do that).  That goes for anybody posting here and/or reading
this.

To all, wiki what you know, please!  Though, sometimes,
conversations here, or in email, or "in the map" or... are more
appropriate.

I'm saying "wiki when wiki is right."

SteveA

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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020, CanVec and Licensing Issue

We were very lucky in having some of the CANVEC people involved with OSM
> and they made it easy to pull the data into OSM.  I'm not sure what the
> current state is but I think most of the highways have now been imported.
> The level of detail is different depending on the provincial source and a
> number of OSM mappers like to strip out the Canvec tag so what is in
> OpenStreetMap from CANVEC is difficult to tell sometimes.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] A bit of an ambiguity from here

There re two stages to the building project.

The first is to get the building outlines.  The local cities basically have
this information anyway.

The second step is to enrich these with tags giving the number of levels,
the type, etc.  I forget the full list of of attributes.  Once you have
that sort of information then you can run statistical analysis on them to
get a lot of meaningful data.  In Zambia they are doing population
estimates from the number and floor space of the buildings together with
the number of levels. That means you can plan where to put schools and
clinics to best advantage.  Or even coffee shops and putting a coffee shop
in the best location is worth money and that's why Stats is so interested
in the project and the same for the municipal governments.  City planning
is the key to this.  Bjenk would get quite excited over the range of tags
that got added and the number that were converted from building=yes to
building=church or residential etc.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 17:35, OSM Volunteer stevea  wrote:

> John:  Might I ask what you mean by "> Once the outlines are in place then
> other tags can be added."?
>
> Thanks, Steve
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

LWG blog post about CC-BY

https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/

as long as you have explicit permission to add data from city. It become
compatible.
I used "may" as in "should remain on the list because explicit permission
was already obtained."

On Jan 28, 2018 5:53 PM, "OSM Volunteer stevea" 
wrote:

On Jan 28, 2018, at 2:39 PM, James  wrote:
> CC Attribution is compatible with explicit permission, so Gatineau and
Montreal may remain on the list.

Oh, how I sometimes dislike the word "may!"

I know, I know, our good talk-ca dialog intends to help wider understanding
and consensus.  This can be challenging, lengthy, repeat-oriented /
loquacious and seem like it runs in circles!  It gets better.

James, I hereby ask you to change status from red to green once you know.
Perhaps also undo the strikeout type (delete the  brackets in the
markup language) in Contributors for those two cities, too (updating the
one or two lines of text it takes to do that).  That goes for anybody
posting here and/or reading this.

To all, wiki what you know, please!  Though, sometimes, conversations here,
or in email, or "in the map" or... are more appropriate.

I'm saying "wiki when wiki is right."

SteveA
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

On Jan 28, 2018, at 2:39 PM, James  wrote:
> CC Attribution is compatible with explicit permission, so Gatineau and 
> Montreal may remain on the list.

Oh, how I sometimes dislike the word "may!"

I know, I know, our good talk-ca dialog intends to help wider understanding and 
consensus.  This can be challenging, lengthy, repeat-oriented / loquacious and 
seem like it runs in circles!  It gets better.

James, I hereby ask you to change status from red to green once you know.  
Perhaps also undo the strikeout type (delete the  brackets in the markup 
language) in Contributors for those two cities, too (updating the one or two 
lines of text it takes to do that).  That goes for anybody posting here and/or 
reading this.

To all, wiki what you know, please!  Though, sometimes, conversations here, or 
in email, or "in the map" or... are more appropriate.

I'm saying "wiki when wiki is right."

SteveA
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

CC Attribution is compatible with explicit permission, so Gatineau and
Montreal may remain on the list.

On Jan 28, 2018 5:20 PM, "OSM Volunteer stevea" 
wrote:

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:
> > Steve A,
> > I suspect nobody fully knows the current status of licences... So I
> would agree with the action that you wrote:
> > every city except for Ottawa rightfully should be removed to end the
> confusion, updating both wikis.
>
> OK, now done.
>
> In Contributors, following the existing example of Toronto, I have used
> strikeout type.  To be clear, I ONLY did this for eight of the ten
> "Canadian Municipalities" listed there, leaving Ottawa in plain type
> indicating "Contains information licensed under the Open Government Licence
> – City of Ottawa." and its embedded link.  (I left Yellowknife yellow, it
> is 100% done, that may or may not be the correct color, it might be red).
> I did NOT change Canadian Provinces (of which British Columbia is the only
> one listed) nor Natural Resources Canada.  Whew.
>
> PLEASE, I ask others to double- or triple- or multiple-check me here!  Do
> these (local licenses in Canada) reflect the current state of reality?  We
> (here in talk-ca) believe they do, we (OSM) welcome any updates directly to
> the Contributors wiki.  Thank you.
>
> In the BC2020 OD wiki, they are all red except for Ottawa, which remains
> green and Yellowknife which remains yellow as it is 100% done, though it
> may be conflation for me to be thinking that way and perhaps it goes red,
> meaning, license not approved.  Hm, Yellowknife to red but left as done,
> both true apparently.  Uh
>
> This does lead to (at least me asking) "hm, how did 80% done get into
> Edmonton and Yellowknife 100%, I'll leave that alone for now.  (I'm
> guessing "via Bing or other visual layer, and JOSM and maybe a plug-in and
> a toolchain and so on...).  Two separate issues:  local licenses and "how
> much is done anyway."  I'm putting pieces together, disassembling
> stovepipes, as it were.  A wider (than Canada) OSM community does better
> understand some status via our wiki.
>
> It is likely that we simply need a total run-through of what is
> everybody's understanding up and down our wiki, toolchains, processes,
> lines of communication, etc.  A sort of thing that is done on a talk page
> and via wikis.  It appears to be a national conversation.
>
> Steady ahead.
>
> SteveA
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020, CanVec and Licensing Issue

; Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown <jonab...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jonab...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in
> updating the BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some
> senior students who could be trained to take on this task for
> locations in Ontario. It would be a very small start, of course.
> Also, can someone explain to me the licensing issue? How do
> datasets released under the open government license not meet the
> legal requirements of the OSM license?
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 16:57:22 -0500
From: john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
To: Matthew Darwin <matt...@mdarwin.ca>
Cc: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
Message-ID:
<caj-ex1hacvmyxgrosb9ft5vjo1tmhbk4jtwkbq77xanaxkg...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The legal working group offers opinions nothing else.  If the only change
to the licence is the city name then it should be fine to use.  The problem
for the cities is it takes about a year or two to get these things approved
and if you can't say to the politicians it will be accepted then its time
and money spent for an uncertain result.

I understand there is a fairly involved import process as well that needs a
benediction that looks at the licensing these days.

TB did the rounds before coming up with their license by the way.

Data released through the TB open data portal is correctly licensed. The
CANVEC approval was based on a misunderstanding which has since been
cleared up.  It is currently released through the TB Open Data portal and
thus covered under the 2.0 license.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 16:31, Matthew Darwin <matt...@mdarwin.ca> wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> Please do raise the licensing issue it is a major blocking point to
> have imports proceed.  We cannot have a variant of the same license for
> each city, just changing the city name because the OSM license working
> group thinks these are thus all different and then needing another round of
> review.   We need one (or very small number of) licenses every
> municipality/region/province can use.
>
> One way to solve this is to have every municipality/region/province
> contribute to one master data set and then make that dataset available to
> OSM.  Eg add all the buildings into CanVec.  CanVec is already approved. :-)
>
>
> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca
>
> On 2018-01-28 02:42 PM, Jonathan Brown wrote:
>
> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario.
> It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards within
> government who are releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal
> open government folks are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where
> the provincial and city folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise
> this licensing issue and how this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen
> science, something that they are keen on embracing. It would be good to
> show them a working example. Has the BC2020i OSM data been integrated into
> the Ottawa Open Data Portal?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> *From: *john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
> *To: *Jonathan Brown <jonab...@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
>
>
> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing
> please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers
> using iD are not very accurate.
>
> If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be
> available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the
> problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
>
> The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their
> Open Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with
> version 2.0.  Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license
> and it took about five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.
>
> I was involved in the original import and was under the impre

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

On Jan 28, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Matthew Darwin  wrote:
> Steve A,
> I suspect nobody fully knows the current status of licences... So I would 
> agree with the action that you wrote:
> every city except for Ottawa rightfully should be removed to end the 
> confusion, updating both wikis.  

OK, now done.

In Contributors, following the existing example of Toronto, I have used 
strikeout type.  To be clear, I ONLY did this for eight of the ten "Canadian 
Municipalities" listed there, leaving Ottawa in plain type indicating "Contains 
information licensed under the Open Government Licence – City of Ottawa." and 
its embedded link.  (I left Yellowknife yellow, it is 100% done, that may or 
may not be the correct color, it might be red).  I did NOT change Canadian 
Provinces (of which British Columbia is the only one listed) nor Natural 
Resources Canada.  Whew.

PLEASE, I ask others to double- or triple- or multiple-check me here!  Do these 
(local licenses in Canada) reflect the current state of reality?  We (here in 
talk-ca) believe they do, we (OSM) welcome any updates directly to the 
Contributors wiki.  Thank you.

In the BC2020 OD wiki, they are all red except for Ottawa, which remains green 
and Yellowknife which remains yellow as it is 100% done, though it may be 
conflation for me to be thinking that way and perhaps it goes red, meaning, 
license not approved.  Hm, Yellowknife to red but left as done, both true 
apparently.  Uh

This does lead to (at least me asking) "hm, how did 80% done get into Edmonton 
and Yellowknife 100%, I'll leave that alone for now.  (I'm guessing "via Bing 
or other visual layer, and JOSM and maybe a plug-in and a toolchain and so 
on...).  Two separate issues:  local licenses and "how much is done anyway."  
I'm putting pieces together, disassembling stovepipes, as it were.  A wider 
(than Canada) OSM community does better understand some status via our wiki.

It is likely that we simply need a total run-through of what is everybody's 
understanding up and down our wiki, toolchains, processes, lines of 
communication, etc.  A sort of thing that is done on a talk page and via wikis. 
 It appears to be a national conversation.

Steady ahead.

SteveA
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

The legal working group offers opinions nothing else.  If the only change
to the licence is the city name then it should be fine to use.  The problem
for the cities is it takes about a year or two to get these things approved
and if you can't say to the politicians it will be accepted then its time
and money spent for an uncertain result.

I understand there is a fairly involved import process as well that needs a
benediction that looks at the licensing these days.

TB did the rounds before coming up with their license by the way.

Data released through the TB open data portal is correctly licensed. The
CANVEC approval was based on a misunderstanding which has since been
cleared up.  It is currently released through the TB Open Data portal and
thus covered under the 2.0 license.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 16:31, Matthew Darwin  wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> Please do raise the licensing issue it is a major blocking point to
> have imports proceed.  We cannot have a variant of the same license for
> each city, just changing the city name because the OSM license working
> group thinks these are thus all different and then needing another round of
> review.   We need one (or very small number of) licenses every
> municipality/region/province can use.
>
> One way to solve this is to have every municipality/region/province
> contribute to one master data set and then make that dataset available to
> OSM.  Eg add all the buildings into CanVec.  CanVec is already approved. :-)
>
>
> Matthew Darwinmatthew@mdarwin.cahttp://www.mdarwin.ca
>
> On 2018-01-28 02:42 PM, Jonathan Brown wrote:
>
> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario.
> It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards within
> government who are releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal
> open government folks are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where
> the provincial and city folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise
> this licensing issue and how this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen
> science, something that they are keen on embracing. It would be good to
> show them a working example. Has the BC2020i OSM data been integrated into
> the Ottawa Open Data Portal?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> *From: *john whelan 
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
> *To: *Jonathan Brown 
> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
>
>
> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing
> please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers
> using iD are not very accurate.
>
> If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be
> available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the
> problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
>
> The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their
> Open Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with
> version 2.0.  Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license
> and it took about five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.
>
> I was involved in the original import and was under the impression that
> since we were importing CANVEC data and that was available under the 2.0
> license that the municipal equivalent license was acceptable. Some Stats
> Canada addresses had been imported from the TB open data portal in Toronto
> and they were under the same impression.
>
> It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 2.0
> license in OSM's eyes.
>
> The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG for
> their opinion.  Their opinion was they were acceptable.  However they
> wished to view any other Open Data licenses in Canada before giving their
> benediction.
>
> Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing you
> must remove our data.  This is an example on something that OSM would find
> unacceptable.
>
> Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
>
> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the
> BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who
> could be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be
> a very small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the
> licensing issue? How do datasets released under the open government license
> not meet the legal requirements of the OSM license?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing 
> listTalk-ca@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
>
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>

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

*Denis and I. No usb was shared, only a datafile for download.

On Jan 28, 2018 3:18 PM, "john whelan"  wrote:

The Ottawa building outlines were identified as a possibility by Tracey at
a meeting between Stats Can City of Ottawa and a few people from OSM plus a
few others by phone who had done something similar.

Most of the enriching of OSM from Ottawa's Open Data came through their
portal such as the GTFS file.  Martin and James have done most of the work
integrating what they could find.

Once we had the license lined up then I understand the building outline
file was supplied separately to the Open Data portal but with the same
licence.  I think James would know if it came on a USB stick or not.

The Stats Can building project has had a lot of interest from
municipalities.  I think Kingston was very keen.  Its value is the mixture
of Open Data and the enrichment that comes from the OSM side to give the
number of levels etc.

TB are supposed to have an Open data kit for municipalities real soon now
and that is supposed to include information about the TB 2.0 Open Data
Licence that Ottawa is using.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 14:42, Jonathan Brown  wrote:

> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario.
> It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards within
> government who are releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal
> open government folks are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where
> the provincial and city folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise
> this licensing issue and how this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen
> science, something that they are keen on embracing. It would be good to
> show them a working example. Has the BC2020i OSM data been integrated into
> the Ottawa Open Data Portal?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> *From: *john whelan 
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
> *To: *Jonathan Brown 
> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
>
>
> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing
> please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers
> using iD are not very accurate.
>
> If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be
> available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the
> problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
>
> The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their
> Open Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with
> version 2.0.  Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license
> and it took about five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.
>
> I was involved in the original import and was under the impression that
> since we were importing CANVEC data and that was available under the 2.0
> license that the municipal equivalent license was acceptable. Some Stats
> Canada addresses had been imported from the TB open data portal in Toronto
> and they were under the same impression.
>
> It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 2.0
> license in OSM's eyes.
>
> The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG for
> their opinion.  Their opinion was they were acceptable.  However they
> wished to view any other Open Data licenses in Canada before giving their
> benediction.
>
> Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing you
> must remove our data.  This is an example on something that OSM would find
> unacceptable.
>
> Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
>
> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the
> BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who
> could be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be
> a very small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the
> licensing issue? How do datasets released under the open government license
> not meet the legal requirements of the OSM license?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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hebdoOSM Nº 392 2018-01-16-2018-01-22

2018-01-28 Thread weeklyteam

Bonjour,

Le résumé hebdomadaire n° 392 de l'actualité OpenStreetMap vient de paraître 
*en français*. Un condensé à retrouver sur :

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/fr/archives/9884/

Bonne lecture !

hebdoOSM ? 
Qui : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
Où : 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

The low hanging fruit are the GTFS files that contain the bus stop
locations.  With GPS driven stop announcements for the visually impaired
most in Ontario will be accurate in the GTFS file.

Make that open data under the correct license and it can be imported.  It's
cheap to do and supports transit.

The other aspect is multilanguage support.  In Ottawa in OSMand set the
language display to French and the street names come up as rue Sparks
rather than Sparks Street.  This can be attractive to some locations.

Cheerio John

On 28 Jan 2018 3:50 pm, "Jonathan Brown"  wrote:

> Thanks. It’s good to here that the TB (Treasury Board?) are starting to
> provide support in that way of a kit for municipalities. It would be good
> to work with the municipal leaders in building capacity with those
> municipalities with limited capacity and resources to support open data
> initiatives (see Open Cities Index Results for 2017
> https://publicsectordigest.com/open-cities-index-results-2017 published
> by the PSD. Highlights from the report:
>
>- *45 percent* of municipalities surveyed have an open data committee
>in place
>- Of those respondents with an open data committee, very few are
>having regular meetings
>- The vast majority of respondents are either considering an open data
>policy (*33 percent*), are in the process of implementing one (*7
>percent*), or already have an established policy (*45 percent*)
>- While few municipal respondents have an open data strategic plan
>currently in place, more than half are considering a plan or are currently
>implementing one
>- *69 percent* of surveyed municipalities report having internal
>educational resources in place for their open data program, while *51
>percent* report having external resources available for the community
>
>
>
> I live in Cobourg in Northumberland County south of Peterborough. We do
> not have an Open Data initiative at either the municipal or regional level.
> Cobourg received a $450K grant for an incubation hub called Venture 13, and
> Peterborough is in the process of educating internal staff on their new
> open data policy. We are hoping to learn from the leaders in OSM and Open
> Data through hands-on activities like the BC2020i.
>
>
>
> I have been volunteering my time with the Niagara Region folks for the
> past two years to try to figure out a way to get the open data into the
> K-12 education sector. We too have the same need as Clifford and Keith in
> Manitoba who are trying to figure out how to connect local high school and
> undergraduate students to a local problem-solving task using the BC202i
> framework.
>
>
>
> Marina, It would be help if you could connect with the federal TB team so
> that they understand what should go into a kit for municipalities and their
> community partners that want to participate in a BC2020i OSM project. My
> contact over there is Alannah Hilt (see bio at go-opendata.ca/speaker/
> alannah-hilt/). Connie, since Niagara Region in number 9 on the list of
> the top 20 Open Data leaders, is there anything you think we need to add to
> support the mapathon event in the Niagara Region?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> *From: *john whelan 
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 3:17 PM
> *To: *Jonathan Brown 
> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
>
>
> The Ottawa building outlines were identified as a possibility by Tracey at
> a meeting between Stats Can City of Ottawa and a few people from OSM plus a
> few others by phone who had done something similar.
>
>
>
> Most of the enriching of OSM from Ottawa's Open Data came through their
> portal such as the GTFS file.  Martin and James have done most of the work
> integrating what they could find.
>
>
>
> Once we had the license lined up then I understand the building outline
> file was supplied separately to the Open Data portal but with the same
> licence.  I think James would know if it came on a USB stick or not.
>
>
>
> The Stats Can building project has had a lot of interest from
> municipalities.  I think Kingston was very keen.  Its value is the mixture
> of Open Data and the enrichment that comes from the OSM side to give the
> number of levels etc.
>
>
>
> TB are supposed to have an Open data kit for municipalities real soon now
> and that is supposed to include information about the TB 2.0 Open Data
> Licence that Ottawa is using.
>
>
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 28 January 2018 at 14:42, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
>
> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario.
> It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards within
> government who are releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal
> open government folks are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where
> the provincial and city folks are likely to be in attendance. I can

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

Thanks. It’s good to here that the TB (Treasury Board?) are starting to provide 
support in that way of a kit for municipalities. It would be good to work with 
the municipal leaders in building capacity with those municipalities with 
limited capacity and resources to support open data initiatives (see Open 
Cities Index Results for 2017 
https://publicsectordigest.com/open-cities-index-results-2017 published by the 
PSD. Highlights from the report:
• 45 percent of municipalities surveyed have an open data committee in place
• Of those respondents with an open data committee, very few are having regular 
meetings
• The vast majority of respondents are either considering an open data policy 
(33 percent), are in the process of implementing one (7 percent), or already 
have an established policy (45 percent)
• While few municipal respondents have an open data strategic plan currently in 
place, more than half are considering a plan or are currently implementing one
• 69 percent of surveyed municipalities report having internal educational 
resources in place for their open data program, while 51 percent report having 
external resources available for the community

I live in Cobourg in Northumberland County south of Peterborough. We do not 
have an Open Data initiative at either the municipal or regional level. Cobourg 
received a $450K grant for an incubation hub called Venture 13, and 
Peterborough is in the process of educating internal staff on their new open 
data policy. We are hoping to learn from the leaders in OSM and Open Data 
through hands-on activities like the BC2020i.  

I have been volunteering my time with the Niagara Region folks for the past two 
years to try to figure out a way to get the open data into the K-12 education 
sector. We too have the same need as Clifford and Keith in Manitoba who are 
trying to figure out how to connect local high school and undergraduate 
students to a local problem-solving task using the BC202i framework.

Marina, It would be help if you could connect with the federal TB team so that 
they understand what should go into a kit for municipalities and their 
community partners that want to participate in a BC2020i OSM project. My 
contact over there is Alannah Hilt (see bio at 
go-opendata.ca/speaker/alannah-hilt/). Connie, since Niagara Region in number 9 
on the list of the top 20 Open Data leaders, is there anything you think we 
need to add to support the mapathon event in the Niagara Region? 

Jonathan 

From: john whelan
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 3:17 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

The Ottawa building outlines were identified as a possibility by Tracey at a 
meeting between Stats Can City of Ottawa and a few people from OSM plus a few 
others by phone who had done something similar.

Most of the enriching of OSM from Ottawa's Open Data came through their portal 
such as the GTFS file.  Martin and James have done most of the work integrating 
what they could find.

Once we had the license lined up then I understand the building outline file 
was supplied separately to the Open Data portal but with the same licence.  I 
think James would know if it came on a USB stick or not. 

The Stats Can building project has had a lot of interest from municipalities.  
I think Kingston was very keen.  Its value is the mixture of Open Data and the 
enrichment that comes from the OSM side to give the number of levels etc.

TB are supposed to have an Open data kit for municipalities real soon now and 
that is supposed to include information about the TB 2.0 Open Data Licence that 
Ottawa is using.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 14:42, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario. It’s 
their job to connect to and support the data stewards within government who are 
releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal open government folks 
are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where the provincial and city 
folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise this licensing issue and how 
this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen science, something that they are 
keen on embracing. It would be good to show them a working example. Has the 
BC2020i OSM data been integrated into the Ottawa Open Data Portal?  
 
Jonathan 
 
From: john whelan
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
 
If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing please 
use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers using iD are 
not very accurate.
If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be 
available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the problem 
is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
The Canadian Federal Government

[Talk-ca] BC2020 perspectives

I see so many simultaneous (some unconfused, some confused) efforts in OSM's 
WikiProject BC2020.  Here, I identify what I see from an out-of-Canada yet 
long-time OSM contributor perspective.  While the following must necessarily 
remain high-level, I do not wish to over-simplify, though it can be difficult 
to make that combination work well.

1)  Canada wishes to deploy "citizen science" and/or "civic science" (civic 
data, it seems) in crowdsourcing efforts.  (Personally, I seriously applaud 
these efforts, especially as they are at the mighty level of "nationwide").

2)  OSM aligns especially well with these efforts.

3)  There are real-world issues that frustrate these efforts, primarily the 
importation of OD as it is now licensed (except in Ottawa) not harmonizing well 
with OSM's ODbL.  This arises because each city and/or province does something 
slightly different, though there are minor alignments in some cases.  The 
result is that each of these changes triggers a lengthy and difficult legal 
process to determine compliance, and legal resource within OSM (our LWG) are 
limited.  In this context, the best use of these resources is a "once per 
country" approach, and while that happened with Ottawa, making its OD ODbL 
compliant, other cities haven't adopted Ottawa's license.  Otherwise the 
(literally) provincial (and local) approaches going their own way SERIOUSLY 
frustrate the "must sail exactly to the tack" specific efforts of BC2020, a 
straight-up OSM project.

4)  OSM has many internal communication methodologies, from "the map itself" 
(changeset comments, Notes, source and attribution tags...), to our help forum 
(help.osm.org), to our talk pages (at national, technical and other specific 
levels of target audiences), to our wiki pages.  Each have their purposes, and 
understanding the differences in how these (and more) are used is part of OSM's 
culture.  There are also "out-of-band" communications (private email 
conversations, IRC, slack, Google, MeetUps, Mapping Parties, "talk over 
coffee," academic institutions using OSM in education as efforts part-parallel 
to BC2020, part not...).  While none of these are "secret," some are 
deliberately and correctly "smaller and more private," appropriately not shared 
with a wider OSM audience.  ALSO, there are others (e.g. government workers in 
StatsCan and other bureaus...) who wish to see OD and "civic science" progress, 
perhaps with OSM a star player, yet are neither privy to the "more private" 
conversations nor are culturally indoctrinated in "methods of getting things 
done in OSM, especially on a national level."  Of course, there is some overlap 
by some who have contributed mightily to the conversation here, helping to 
elucidate both history and valuable perspectives of their own.

5)  Real decision making "power" so that BC2020 may progress, and I mean in OSM 
(as it IS an OSM project), must understand these perspectives even as they 
bring still more additional perspectives of their own to the table.  There must 
be a mingling of cultural perspectives:  government OD attitudes and OSM 
sub-culture.

Once 5) happens, and perhaps tomorrow's event where Jonathan Brown "raises this 
licensing issue" is a new sort of kickstart, this must become a nationwide 
feedback loop.  The CRITICAL juncture to move forward is a harmonization of 
local/provincial/federal governments and their attitudes and culture towards 
Open Data with the culture of OSM.  We have made great progress, but in my 
opinion, only in limited contexts and suffering from "stove-piped" 
communication blockages.  This deeply frustrates further progress.

Please observe all of the moving parts, (perhaps marvel a bit!) and know that 
while boulders can be pushed uphill, it isn't easy.  I wish to continue to 
offer encouragement that it can be done.  I hope this helps.

SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

The Ottawa building outlines were identified as a possibility by Tracey at
a meeting between Stats Can City of Ottawa and a few people from OSM plus a
few others by phone who had done something similar.

Most of the enriching of OSM from Ottawa's Open Data came through their
portal such as the GTFS file.  Martin and James have done most of the work
integrating what they could find.

Once we had the license lined up then I understand the building outline
file was supplied separately to the Open Data portal but with the same
licence.  I think James would know if it came on a USB stick or not.

The Stats Can building project has had a lot of interest from
municipalities.  I think Kingston was very keen.  Its value is the mixture
of Open Data and the enrichment that comes from the OSM side to give the
number of levels etc.

TB are supposed to have an Open data kit for municipalities real soon now
and that is supposed to include information about the TB 2.0 Open Data
Licence that Ottawa is using.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 14:42, Jonathan Brown  wrote:

> Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario.
> It’s their job to connect to and support the data stewards within
> government who are releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal
> open government folks are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where
> the provincial and city folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise
> this licensing issue and how this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen
> science, something that they are keen on embracing. It would be good to
> show them a working example. Has the BC2020i OSM data been integrated into
> the Ottawa Open Data Portal?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> *From: *john whelan 
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
> *To: *Jonathan Brown 
> *Cc: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
>
>
> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing
> please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers
> using iD are not very accurate.
>
> If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be
> available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the
> problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
>
> The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their
> Open Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with
> version 2.0.  Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license
> and it took about five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.
>
> I was involved in the original import and was under the impression that
> since we were importing CANVEC data and that was available under the 2.0
> license that the municipal equivalent license was acceptable. Some Stats
> Canada addresses had been imported from the TB open data portal in Toronto
> and they were under the same impression.
>
> It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 2.0
> license in OSM's eyes.
>
> The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG for
> their opinion.  Their opinion was they were acceptable.  However they
> wished to view any other Open Data licenses in Canada before giving their
> benediction.
>
> Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing you
> must remove our data.  This is an example on something that OSM would find
> unacceptable.
>
> Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.
>
> Cheerio John
>
>
>
> On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
>
> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the
> BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who
> could be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be
> a very small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the
> licensing issue? How do datasets released under the open government license
> not meet the legal requirements of the OSM license?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

On Jan 28, 2018, at 11:29 AM, john whelan  wrote:
> 
> If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing 
> please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers 
> using iD are not very accurate.

Thanks, John, that's a helpful history lesson.  I've been looking at the 
history of our Contributor page to see who edited these Canadian cities "into 
compliance" and it is a mixed bag of "me, too" additions.  Try:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Contributors==500=history

and do a web page text search for "Canad" and you'll get a sense of this.

However, while history lessons can shed light, the task at hand is to update 
status for today, now, amongst a wide national (and international, 
OSM-worldwide) audience.  So, let's continue to do that and pursue the truth of 
Canadian OD licensing status.  Yes, it's clear that mapping from Bing (please 
use JOSM + building_tool plugin — and where is the wiki to document efforts on 
how OSM volunteers do THAT?) is a slightly different set of tasks than that 
outlined in BC2020, as IT talks about bulk importing a lot, and doesn't seem to 
talk about Bing and JOSM + building_tool plugin efforts.

I'll say it again:  the Contributors wiki (and concomitantly, the BC2020 
OD_tables wiki) need to be updated to "current reality," whatever that is.  I 
don't know what that is, maybe nobody does.  If nobody does, every city except 
for Ottawa rightfully should be removed to end the confusion, updating both 
wikis.

Finally, the BC2020 wiki itself (not OD_tables) needs to be refreshed by 
somebody other than me to reflect what is REALLY going on in this project 
nationwide in Canada, right now.  Please!

We seem to be getting somewhere, even if it is determining that "efforts remain 
unconfused and confused on a national level."  I'll take that as minor progress 
— because it can be cleaned up and remedied!

Thank you to all for measured, patient and polite conversations both here in 
talk-ca and in our wikis,
SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

Okay, I know the Open Data folks and Open Government folks in Ontario. It’s 
their job to connect to and support the data stewards within government who are 
releasing data through the Open Data Portal. The federal open government folks 
are holding a meeting in Toronto this Monday where the provincial and city 
folks are likely to be in attendance. I can raise this licensing issue and how 
this is a barrier to crowdsourcing and citizen science, something that they are 
keen on embracing. It would be good to show them a working example. Has the 
BC2020i OSM data been integrated into the Ottawa Open Data Portal?  

Jonathan 

From: john whelan
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2018 2:29 PM
To: Jonathan Brown
Cc: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing please 
use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers using iD are 
not very accurate.
If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be 
available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the problem 
is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.
The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their Open 
Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with version 2.0.  
Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license and it took about 
five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.
I was involved in the original import and was under the impression that since 
we were importing CANVEC data and that was available under the 2.0 license that 
the municipal equivalent license was acceptable. Some Stats Canada addresses 
had been imported from the TB open data portal in Toronto and they were under 
the same impression.
It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 2.0 license 
in OSM's eyes.
The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG for their 
opinion.  Their opinion was they were acceptable.  However they wished to view 
any other Open Data licenses in Canada before giving their benediction.  
Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing you must 
remove our data.  This is an example on something that OSM would find 
unacceptable.
Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.
Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the 
BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who could be 
trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be a very small 
start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the licensing issue? How do 
datasets released under the open government license not meet the legal 
requirements of the OSM license? 
 
Jonathan 
 
 




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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

If you map from Bing imagery there is no issue.  If you do map from Bing
please use the building_tool plugin in JOSM.  We tend to find new mappers
using iD are not very accurate.

If the city has an Open Data file of the building outlines then it must be
available under a licence that OpenStreetMap can accept.  Part of the
problem is you can use OpenStreetMap for anything.

The Canadian Federal Government noticed there were problems with their Open
Data licence for OpenStreetMap amongst others they came up with version
2.0.  Ottawa was the first municipality to adopt the new license and it
took about five years to get it sorted out from start to finish.

I was involved in the original import and was under the impression that
since we were importing CANVEC data and that was available under the 2.0
license that the municipal equivalent license was acceptable. Some Stats
Canada addresses had been imported from the TB open data portal in Toronto
and they were under the same impression.

It became apparent that the CANVEC imports were not done under the 2.0
license in OSM's eyes.

The TB 2.0 and the Ottawa Open Data license was referred to the LWG for
their opinion.  Their opinion was they were acceptable.  However they
wished to view any other Open Data licenses in Canada before giving their
benediction.

Some Open Data licenses say and if we don't like what you are doing you
must remove our data.  This is an example on something that OSM would find
unacceptable.

Once the outlines are in place then other tags can be added.

Cheerio John

On 28 January 2018 at 13:50, Jonathan Brown  wrote:

> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the
> BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who
> could be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be
> a very small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the
> licensing issue? How do datasets released under the open government license
> not meet the legal requirements of the OSM license?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

not only that but sometimes they add things that make it more or less
compatible(previously bc and their unique privacy or something else)

On Jan 28, 2018 2:14 PM, "OSM Volunteer stevea" 
wrote:

> On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
> > If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating
> the BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who
> could be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be
> a very small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the
> licensing issue? How do datasets released under the open government license
> not meet the legal requirements of the OSM license?
>
> Then, On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:57 AM, James  wrote:
> > license is federal, cities must modify it to apply to municipal, thus
> creating new license
>
> SO, please ladies and gentleman, "figure out" what your licensing status
> is, and document it.  First in https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/
> Contributors#Canadian_Municipalities where it is now said these entries
> are incorrect (except for Ottawa).  Second in https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/
> WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020/building_OD_tables, which now
> refers back to that page in all the "green" cells.
>
> This is what OSM (partly) is:  documenting in a wiki (for all to see and
> share in the knowledge of) the status of licensing, a link to an Import
> Plan, helpful steps to take when you get stuck and don't know what to do, a
> place to propose streamlined or improved methodology, a way to capture the
> status of a project (whether with or without Task Manager links) perhaps
> using red/yellow/green color-coded cells, or cells that have "80% done" in
> them, as appropriate, et cetera.
>
> The "scope of the work involved in updating the BC2020 OD tables" is not
> hard, it is this:
>
> 1)  View OD_tables wiki (the second link above)
> 2)  Click the Log In link (upper right) and enter your OSM wiki
> credentials (different than your OSM credentials)
> 3)  Click the Edit Source link (ditto), I don't recommend the
> usually-more-friendly-user-interface Edit link, as you are editing TABLES
> here, and (in my opinion) our wiki's raw (lightweight, relatively easy)
> markup language is the only sane choice here to edit table data entries
> 4)  Edit the table data for each cell which is now green (yes), but which
> should be red (no) or perhaps something in the middle, yellow (partial).
> There are 11 colored cells now, 7 are green, 4 are yellow.  It seems 1
> should be green (Ottawa) and therefore left alone, but the other ten should
> be changed to red or yellow.  So, GO!
>
> OTHERS reading this list (not me!) must properly decide what these
> colors/statuses are, as I'm merely some guy in the USA who wants to see the
> project go forward, but the licenses, and importantly, their statuses as
> communicated to the rest of OSM via the Contributors page and the
> WikiProject BC2020 OD tables page are now confused/outdated/wrong and so
> these must be updated so they are correct for 2018, now and going forward.
>
> > I offer to "change from green to red" wiki table status for all cities
> (except Ottawa), although I'd also like to see Contributors be updated
> (with only Ottawa) as I suggest.  Teamwork, anybody?  Simply to keep our
> project-wide communication current?  It's neither difficult nor
> time-consuming and shares present status with "the rest of us."
>
> And my offer still stands, I just have no clue what is going on with these
> licenses.  Does anybody here?  Please, let's not kick this into "well, it's
> sorta lost in the LWG..." unless that is REALLY true.  It seems this is a
> Canadian initiative to move forward with these and I'm left with little to
> do from here to push it forward any differently than I have been.
>
> Thank you,
> SteveA
> California
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Jonathan Brown  wrote:
> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the 
> BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who could 
> be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be a very 
> small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the licensing issue? 
> How do datasets released under the open government license not meet the legal 
> requirements of the OSM license?

Then, On Jan 28, 2018, at 10:57 AM, James  wrote:
> license is federal, cities must modify it to apply to municipal, thus 
> creating new license

SO, please ladies and gentleman, "figure out" what your licensing status is, 
and document it.  First in 
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Contributors#Canadian_Municipalities where it is now 
said these entries are incorrect (except for Ottawa).  Second in 
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020/building_OD_tables,
 which now refers back to that page in all the "green" cells.

This is what OSM (partly) is:  documenting in a wiki (for all to see and share 
in the knowledge of) the status of licensing, a link to an Import Plan, helpful 
steps to take when you get stuck and don't know what to do, a place to propose 
streamlined or improved methodology, a way to capture the status of a project 
(whether with or without Task Manager links) perhaps using red/yellow/green 
color-coded cells, or cells that have "80% done" in them, as appropriate, et 
cetera.

The "scope of the work involved in updating the BC2020 OD tables" is not hard, 
it is this:

1)  View OD_tables wiki (the second link above)
2)  Click the Log In link (upper right) and enter your OSM wiki credentials 
(different than your OSM credentials)
3)  Click the Edit Source link (ditto), I don't recommend the 
usually-more-friendly-user-interface Edit link, as you are editing TABLES here, 
and (in my opinion) our wiki's raw (lightweight, relatively easy) markup 
language is the only sane choice here to edit table data entries
4)  Edit the table data for each cell which is now green (yes), but which 
should be red (no) or perhaps something in the middle, yellow (partial).  There 
are 11 colored cells now, 7 are green, 4 are yellow.  It seems 1 should be 
green (Ottawa) and therefore left alone, but the other ten should be changed to 
red or yellow.  So, GO!

OTHERS reading this list (not me!) must properly decide what these 
colors/statuses are, as I'm merely some guy in the USA who wants to see the 
project go forward, but the licenses, and importantly, their statuses as 
communicated to the rest of OSM via the Contributors page and the WikiProject 
BC2020 OD tables page are now confused/outdated/wrong and so these must be 
updated so they are correct for 2018, now and going forward.

> I offer to "change from green to red" wiki table status for all cities 
> (except Ottawa), although I'd also like to see Contributors be updated (with 
> only Ottawa) as I suggest.  Teamwork, anybody?  Simply to keep our 
> project-wide communication current?  It's neither difficult nor 
> time-consuming and shares present status with "the rest of us."

And my offer still stands, I just have no clue what is going on with these 
licenses.  Does anybody here?  Please, let's not kick this into "well, it's 
sorta lost in the LWG..." unless that is REALLY true.  It seems this is a 
Canadian initiative to move forward with these and I'm left with little to do 
from here to push it forward any differently than I have been.

Thank you,
SteveA
California
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Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status

license is federal, cities must modify it to apply to municipal, thus
creating new license

On Jan 28, 2018 1:52 PM, "Jonathan Brown"  wrote:

> If we have a description of the scope of the work involved in updating the
> BC2020 OD tables, I don’t mind trying to find some senior students who
> could be trained to take on this task for locations in Ontario. It would be
> a very small start, of course. Also, can someone explain to me the
> licensing issue? How do datasets released under the open government license
> not meet the legal requirements of the OSM license?
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 28, 2018 7:00 AM
> *To: *talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject: *Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 16
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> Today's Topics:
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>
>1. weeklyOSM #392 2018-01-16-2018-01-22 (weeklyteam)
>
>2. Re: BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
>   (OSM Volunteer stevea)
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Message: 1
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 08:21:47 -0800 (PST)
>
> From: weeklyteam 
>
> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>
> Subject: [Talk-ca] weeklyOSM #392 2018-01-16-2018-01-22
>
> Message-ID: <5a6ca71b.d4951c0a.8ae59.9...@mx.google.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 392,
>
> is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all
> things happening in the openstreetmap world:
>
>
>
> http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/9884/
>
>
>
> Enjoy!
>
>
>
> weeklyOSM?
>
> who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages
>
> where?: https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-
> produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Message: 2
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:41:23 -0800
>
> From: OSM Volunteer stevea 
>
> To: "Stewart C. Russell" , talk-ca
>
> 
>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status
>
> Message-ID: <1145fd9b-205b-4d3d-a8c8-0b2f5846a...@softworkers.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> On Jan 26, 2018, at 8:12 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
>
> > On 2018-01-26 09:56 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
>
> >> What I did was to "back-populate" the list of "approved" (by whom?
> when?  how did these get here?) list of Canadian cities from
>
> >> https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Contributors#Canadian_Municipalities into
> OSM's BC2020 wiki.
>
> >
>
> > These are very old and pre-date the formal import documentation process.
>
> > The Toronto permission e-mail from 2011 or so amounted to not much more
>
> > than “Sure ;-)” [smiley included in original]. I don't think the process
>
> > would pass muster now.
>
>
>
> OK, so "correct" is to immediately remove from https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/
> Contributors#Canadian_Municipalities EVERY SINGLE CITY (except Ottawa).
> If it was an error to list them then, (that's what I read above) it is an
> error to list them now.  Anyone with an OSM wiki account can do this — and
> now, someone should, preferably someone in Canada with a sense of ownership
> that this process of entering additional Canadian cities into Contributors
> went awry.  This could be a majority of people reading this post:  any
> takers?
>
>
>
> > Unfortunately, none of us are lawyers, the OSMF's lawyers are very busy
>
> > and naturally conservative, and slogging through licence work (and
>
> > myriad outdated wiki pages) is no fun for anyone, least of all
> volunteers.
>
>
>
> Some of us are lawyers (I'm not), though any OSM volunteer should strive
> to "do the right things," especially in matters related to "proper
> licensing."  Proper OD licensing is one task which has emerged as an
> "obstacle" (so documented in WikiProject BC2020) from the desire to see
> continuing project forward momentum.
>
>
>
> To go forward, if wiki pages are outdated (and Stewart says above that
> they are), well, please update outdated wiki pages.  You don't have to be a
> lawyer to do that, especially as the data are known to be outdated or
> wrong.  "Slogging through license work," partly DOES require being a lawyer
> (at least within OSM's LWG) and for the project to go forward, yes, that is
> a longer-term task to complete.  (I hesitate to say

Re: [Talk-ca] BC2020 OD_tables wiki and project status