Re: [Talk-GB] StyleSheet for Outdoors Rendering

[Graham Jones]

One more thing.  Does anyone have a way of generating a map key from a
carto style?  Otherwise I might have to write something.

Cheers


Graham

On 2 Apr 2017 17:21, "Graham Jones" <grahamjones...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you all for your suggestions.
> It is all coming back to me slowly now
>
> I decided to have a go at a large scale monochrome outdoor map.  Two
> reasons for this:
>
>1. I want to use it as a background to show the route of a race, so I
>can show the route as a coloured overlay and it will show up nicely.
>2. I am colourblind and struggle if he difference between features is
>colour, so I want the difference to be line weight or pattern instead - I
>can imagine using this for a printed outdoor map for me to use.
>
> Have based it on Greg's work (because it is easier to start out simple so
> I understand what I am doing, and he has got the OS projection working
> nicely), adding in features as I realise I need them, plagiarising Andy's
> code when necessary (I will update the credits in the README)
>
> It is stored here if anyone is interested:
> https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto   (mine are the style files
> with the '-mono' suffix - it is now so different to Greg's that I should
> maybe change its name, unless Greg would like a mono map too?)
>
> you can see what it looks like here:
> https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto/blob/master/
> gb-leisure-mono.png
> (this gives a scale of about 1:12500 when printed on A4.
>
> The style currently does the area I was interested in ok (although I am
> minded to make walls and hedges use a pattern rather than a simple line),
> but I am sure there are important features missing when I look at a
> different area, so it is a long way of finished.
>
> Thanks again for your help.
>
> Graham.
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] StyleSheet for Outdoors Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Thank you all for your suggestions.
It is all coming back to me slowly now

I decided to have a go at a large scale monochrome outdoor map.  Two
reasons for this:

   1. I want to use it as a background to show the route of a race, so I
   can show the route as a coloured overlay and it will show up nicely.
   2. I am colourblind and struggle if he difference between features is
   colour, so I want the difference to be line weight or pattern instead - I
   can imagine using this for a printed outdoor map for me to use.

Have based it on Greg's work (because it is easier to start out simple so I
understand what I am doing, and he has got the OS projection working
nicely), adding in features as I realise I need them, plagiarising Andy's
code when necessary (I will update the credits in the README)

It is stored here if anyone is interested:
https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto   (mine are the style files
with the '-mono' suffix - it is now so different to Greg's that I should
maybe change its name, unless Greg would like a mono map too?)

you can see what it looks like here:
https://github.com/jones139/gb-leisure-carto/blob/master/gb-leisure-mono.png
(this gives a scale of about 1:12500 when printed on A4.

The style currently does the area I was interested in ok (although I am
minded to make walls and hedges use a pattern rather than a simple line),
but I am sure there are important features missing when I look at a
different area, so it is a long way of finished.

Thanks again for your help.

Graham.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] StyleSheet for Outdoors Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
I haven't done much with OSM for a few years, so I think I will be behind
the times, so wondered if someone could point me in the right direction
please?

I want to produce some large (A3 sized at least) printable maps for
outdoors use.   It is actually to show the route of a cross country race,
so I want to show fences, gates stiles, embankments, steps, as well as land
cover and contour lines / hill shading (but not distractions like admin
boundaries)

Is there a published carto style available that will show these sort of
things available that I could use as a basis for this, rather than start
from scratch?   (maybe free-map.org.uk, but I'm not sure if that shows
field boundaries etc?)

Last time I did this sort of thing I used a simple python script called
generate_image.py - is that still the best thing to use or has something
else taken its place?

Thanks!

Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones <http://google.com/+GrahamJones>
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] [Talk-GB] New St station platform alignments

[Graham Jones]

On 25 September 2015 at 22:41,  wrote:

> I can't remember ... has the track layout been changed yet? I know there
> were some plans to realign, but the core structure hasn't changed since
> first constructed?
>
I'm pretty sure there have been no changes to the tracks or major building
structures at station platform level - I didn't see any evidence of heavy
work like that on my travels anyway.

Graham.
___
Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list
Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands

Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] New St station platform alignments

[Graham Jones]

On 25 September 2015 at 22:41,  wrote:

> I can't remember ... has the track layout been changed yet? I know there
> were some plans to realign, but the core structure hasn't changed since
> first constructed?
>
I'm pretty sure there have been no changes to the tracks or major building
structures at station platform level - I didn't see any evidence of heavy
work like that on my travels anyway.

Graham.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] What was the outcome of the discussion about C class roads with ref tags?

[Graham Jones]

I don't know where the discussion got to, but thought I should point out
that at least one road in North Yorkshire is a C road that is signposted as
such.
The road here does have signs with the C designation.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/54.5696/-1.0016
I don't think I added it so at least one other person must agree!

Cheers

Graham

from my Phone (hence dodgy spelling!)
On 4 May 2015 01:20, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

 Hi

 I seem to remember there was general consensus that C class roads
 shouldn't have their reference number in the ref tag as they aren't really
 for public use, such as on signs or maps, but the official use of local
 councils etc.

 It was suggested, therefore, to swap them to a tag like off_ref, or some
 such similar. Was this agreed upon?

 If there is consensus I personally think this would be a valid use of a
 mass edit due to the large number http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/98Y Does
 anyone have experience of doing such a auto edit?

 Cheers
 Dave F.



 ---
 This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
 http://www.avast.com


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] newbie questions about building outlines

[Graham Jones]

If vector map district outlines are good enough for your application you
could use it to render maps without importing it into osm - just merge the
osm and vector map district data when you render it into images.

Graham

Hartlepool, UK (from my phone)
On 29 Apr 2014 15:42, Brian Norman br...@earthware.co.uk wrote:

  Hi Everyone



 As a newbie contributor I was hoping to get some advice and wisdom before
 making a mess of things ;-). At the moment I am working on a commercial
 project that needs to show building outlines for inner London. I have done
 some simple analysis to try and identify the gaps in the London coverage
 and am looking at possible options for filling in the gaps. This is where I
 have a few questions:



 1)  Does anyone know if there has been a deliberate reason to not
 fill in the gaps with the generalized buildings from OS vectormap district?
 I can think of many reasons this might have been decided by the community
 but noticed that this has been done in other UK cities

  2)  We are working with our client to investigate the costs of
 adding the missing buildings to OSM by tracing the Bing imagery. My
 analysis shows there are at least 100,156 buildings present in the OS
 vector district data that don't overlap a building in the OSM data within
 the area we are considering but this is a very low estimate. Does anyone
 have any rough guide for a per building time to estimate the effort
 involved?

  3)  Is anyone aware of an company that are experienced in creating
 large volumes of OSM data from tracing aerial imagery?

  4)  Does anyone have any other recommended approaches?



 Thanks for any responses and please forgive my general ignorance



 Thanks

 Brian

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] Article in the I Newspaper

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
There was quite a nice article on map making and OSM in the I this morning
in case you haven't seen it:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/are-mapbox-and-openstreetmaps-personalised-maps-the-future-of-cartography-8675498.html

Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

 Middlesbrough has a lot more land use are surrounding it. But it's been
 done by as large areas of farmland to quickly fill in the blank canvas,
 and I'm not sure it has much ground-knowledge at all.

 I think I started that (or at least the bit to the West of Hartlepool).
It is pretty accurate - it is a large area of farmland.  Always
opportunities to add more detail though - when is a clump of trees part of
the farm, and when is it a natural=wood?
The biggest problem is deciding how to deal with edges of the areas - it is
neatest to share nodes, but it is a right pain to edit thenm once they are
joined together, so I think I kept a lot of them as separate nodes placed
very close together, but it does look as though there are noticable gaps
now.

I'll add some field boundaries when I get bored

GJ


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

I guess it depends on what you think is 'difficult' - to actually survey
them means a lot of walking, so I tend to only add the ones that I can
remember when I get home, and get the routes from Bing.

I have just had another look and for dry stone walls, it is quite easy to
distinguish some in Bing images, which lends itself to armchair mapping,
but it depends on the direction of the sun - I feel I need the shadow to be
confident that it is a wall I am looking at and not a track.  But a
reasonable guess that there is a feature there is probably more use than a
sheet full of nothingness...so I have just spent 20 mins with bing imagery
adding walls to a hillside that I know has lots of walls on it, and I had
started adding quite a few from my last visit (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.74429lon=-2.09388zoom=16layers=M).
  The suspicious gaps are where I can not tell/remember if there is a fence
to replace the apparently disappeared wall   Wire fences of course are
much harder to spot  I'll look for the errors next time I am there and
correct them...

Graham.

On 1 January 2013 11:15, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 My main motivation for getting involved with OSM was to get a better
 walking map on my garmin.   To this extent I have been adding lots of
 barriers in the southern part of the Peak District.  So it is being done.
  Whilst it is time consuming I wouldn't say it is difficult.  I do survey
 with a GPS and camera as much as possible, mainly on foot.  It can be
 difficult to determine the type of barrier from satellite imagery so having
 pictures to refer to makes it easier.  JOSM supports photo mapping really
 well.  You do need to check GPS tracks against the imagery and be prepared
 to adjust the imagery offset.  I wouldn't get overly concerned about the
 accuracy of the position of the barrier.  A fairly good job can be done
 with the existing tools available and people can always adjust as these
 improve.

 I must admit I don't map land use if it is farmland.  To me if it isn't
 mapped it is farmland.  It would seem a reasonable default.

 Please give barrier mapping a go as we are out there.

 Dudley



 Sent from my iPad

 On 31 Dec 2012, at 22:00, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 I would like to see field boundaries and land uses in OSM, for the same
 reason as you.   I think the main reason that there are not many in there,
 is that they are very difficult to survey.  I have just added them from
 memory when I have been able to remember enough - it is more realistic to
 add them now that we have high resolution Bing imagery for countryside
 areas, but it is a lot of work, even from an armchair.

 Graham.

 On 31 December 2012 21:17, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences that
 make this up marked on OSM but as per the Wiki this is a complicated area:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Land_use_and_areas_of_natural_land

 I mapped a small area with landuse and some fences months ago but
 refrained from doing anymore because not many others appear to be doing it.
 You can see what I did here:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.72508907318115lon=-1.7569917440414429zoom=17

 Some of this I need to fix, it was my early days of OSM editing.

 I would love to use OSM one day as a replacement for Explorer (25K) maps
 but until things like walls/fences are shown it would be hard to do. My
 idea was to use the OSM to produce some walking guides in printed or static
 form but they would need this data added for those areas.

 I know everyones view is different but do others on here use the landuse
 and barrier=fence tags in the same way or does it make it look too
 complicated.

 Steven

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

Thanks Steven,
I am pretty sure that any reference to Google maps/imagery is not allowed
(it would be worth searching through the mail archives for last time it was
discussed).
You are right though about the age of the Bing imagery - I noticed that the
cement works is still there in the photos.  I think I tagged it as
'Former' and used landuse=brownfield, which was the best I could think
of for what is there now.  Just proves the benefit of real surveys rather
than just tracing from the photos!

Graham.

On 1 January 2013 14:44, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 Good job there Graham. I know most of the area around there quite well.
 The Bing imagery is old, it still shows the cement works which was
 demolished in 2005 I think. Compare it to Google and you can see it is
 there no more. Although you can't use Google Satellite view to trace there
 is surely no harm in looking at it in another window to help identify if
 something is a wall or a fence then jumping back to Bing imagery to fill
 in, maybe that isn't allowed but you aren't drawing it from Google maps.
 You can see several of the bits you missed because you were unsure are
 clearly walls.

 Something I have been considering doing on walks is a timelapse using my
 GoPro, setting it to take pictures every few seconds which would aid in
 identifying later. The battery doesn't last long so it could only be used
 for an hour or so but I will give that a go next time. It has a wide POV so
 captures quite a lot.


 On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote:

 I guess it depends on what you think is 'difficult' - to actually survey
 them means a lot of walking, so I tend to only add the ones that I can
 remember when I get home, and get the routes from Bing.

 I have just had another look and for dry stone walls, it is quite easy to
 distinguish some in Bing images, which lends itself to armchair mapping,
 but it depends on the direction of the sun - I feel I need the shadow to be
 confident that it is a wall I am looking at and not a track.  But a
 reasonable guess that there is a feature there is probably more use than a
 sheet full of nothingness...so I have just spent 20 mins with bing imagery
 adding walls to a hillside that I know has lots of walls on it, and I had
 started adding quite a few from my last visit (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.74429lon=-2.09388zoom=16layers=M).
   The suspicious gaps are where I can not tell/remember if there is a fence
 to replace the apparently disappeared wall   Wire fences of course are
 much harder to spot  I'll look for the errors next time I am there and
 correct them...

 Graham.


 On 1 January 2013 11:15, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 My main motivation for getting involved with OSM was to get a better
 walking map on my garmin.   To this extent I have been adding lots of
 barriers in the southern part of the Peak District.  So it is being done.
  Whilst it is time consuming I wouldn't say it is difficult.  I do survey
 with a GPS and camera as much as possible, mainly on foot.  It can be
 difficult to determine the type of barrier from satellite imagery so having
 pictures to refer to makes it easier.  JOSM supports photo mapping really
 well.  You do need to check GPS tracks against the imagery and be prepared
 to adjust the imagery offset.  I wouldn't get overly concerned about the
 accuracy of the position of the barrier.  A fairly good job can be done
 with the existing tools available and people can always adjust as these
 improve.

 I must admit I don't map land use if it is farmland.  To me if it isn't
 mapped it is farmland.  It would seem a reasonable default.

 Please give barrier mapping a go as we are out there.

 Dudley



 Sent from my iPad

 On 31 Dec 2012, at 22:00, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I would like to see field boundaries and land uses in OSM, for the same
 reason as you.   I think the main reason that there are not many in there,
 is that they are very difficult to survey.  I have just added them from
 memory when I have been able to remember enough - it is more realistic to
 add them now that we have high resolution Bing imagery for countryside
 areas, but it is a lot of work, even from an armchair.

 Graham.

 On 31 December 2012 21:17, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.comwrote:

 Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences
 that make this up marked on OSM but as per the Wiki this is a complicated
 area:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Land_use_and_areas_of_natural_land

 I mapped a small area with landuse and some fences months ago but
 refrained from doing anymore because not many others appear to be doing it.
 You can see what I did here:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.72508907318115lon=-1.7569917440414429zoom=17

 Some of this I need to fix, it was my early days of OSM editing.

 I would love to use OSM one day as a replacement

Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

While I agree that high data density is an issue, I can't see why this is a
strong argument for not tagging land use in rural areas, as even if we do
draw big polygons to distinguish farmed land from woodland from moors from
scree slopes etc, these areas are so big that it doesn't make rural data
that much more complicated, and it will still be much much simpler than a
major city centre.

Unless of course we are talking about drawing a polygon for each individual
field, which would seem excessive - I am just thinking of a polygon for the
general area.

Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Byway between Muston and Belvoir (was Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM)

[Graham Jones]

I have had similar issues, but without the abusive farmer in your part of
the world? (Weardale).  My old OS map said the Weardale w
Way went through this field, and there was a waymark at the junction with
the road, but once in the (very large!) field, there was no obvious way out
- just rusty gates and barbed wire - I think the route was changed, but
they didn't take down all the old waymarks, which left a lot of paths to
nowhere.   Can't remember how I mapped that in the end

Graham.



 I had walked across his field according to the map which was a couple of
 years old and got to the end of the field to find a padlocked gate. I
 returned back to the sign and it was pointing in a different direction
 (straight ahead) and also had 3 way markers all pointing straight ahead. I
 presumed the route had been changed so followed the arrow after a about 50
 yards I heard various abuse from over the wall. The farmer was angry that
 we weren't following the map and could we read one. We explained (or tried
 to) but he said the gate was someone elses and that was the only way we
 could go. There were no visible paths on the ground in any direction.


 --
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Byway between Muston and Belvoir (was Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM)

[Graham Jones]

Even smaller - I am pretty sure the problem I had was just to the North of
Stanhope

You are right, there are plenty of opportunities to add footpaths to
Weardale.
I concentrated on the Weardale Way (which you can see on Lonvia's Hiking
Map if you are interested (
http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=11lat=54.72073lon=-1.8885)).

When we met a branching footpath I tried to record a short stub to show it
is there, but we have not followed most of them.There is also a marked
'Mineral Valley's Walk' through the area that we will probably try to
follow during 2013but there are huge numbers of 'normal' public
footpaths too.my challenge is trying to incorporate these into a nice
walk, as we don't tend to go 'mapping' - we go for a walk, and I take my
GPX receiver with me!

Cheers


Graham.



On 31 December 2012 16:20, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 It's a small world, the incident I described was also in Weardale near
 Thimbleby Hill South of Stanhope. I didn't use OSM then and checking OSM
 the path is not marked. A path on the opposite side of the wall where the
 farmer was stood is marked which is incorrect and will lead to someone else
 being shouted at unless I fix it.

 There is a massive job to add all of the paths in Weardale to OSM. I will
 gradually add them as I am out walking. I have GPX tracks of many previous
 walks and good records.

 Steven


 On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote:

 I have had similar issues, but without the abusive farmer in your part of
 the world? (Weardale).  My old OS map said the Weardale w
 Way went through this field, and there was a waymark at the junction with
 the road, but once in the (very large!) field, there was no obvious way out
 - just rusty gates and barbed wire - I think the route was changed, but
 they didn't take down all the old waymarks, which left a lot of paths to
 nowhere.   Can't remember how I mapped that in the end

 Graham.




 I had walked across his field according to the map which was a couple of
 years old and got to the end of the field to find a padlocked gate. I
 returned back to the sign and it was pointing in a different direction
 (straight ahead) and also had 3 way markers all pointing straight ahead. I
 presumed the route had been changed so followed the arrow after a about 50
 yards I heard various abuse from over the wall. The farmer was angry that
 we weren't following the map and could we read one. We explained (or tried
 to) but he said the gate was someone elses and that was the only way we
 could go. There were no visible paths on the ground in any direction.


 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




 --
 www.stevenhorner.com  http://www.stevenhorner.com
  @stevenhorner http://twitter.com/stevenhorner
  0191 645 2265
  stevenhorner




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Byway between Muston and Belvoir (was Guidance for adding PRoW to OSM)

[Graham Jones]

Fair point - I'm not really sure what I would tag it as though!

Frosterley and 
Stanhopehttp://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=12lat=54.74591lon=-2.0121
are
fairly major places with pubs - not sure about wifi though.

Graham.



On 31 December 2012 18:56, Dudley Ibbett dudleyibb...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I tried searching on Weardale but there doesn't appear to be a POI marking
 the Dale!

 For those that know this area where would make a good base for walking and
 also have a Pub with wifi for updating OSM in the evening?

 Thanks

 Dudley

 Sent from my iPad

 On 31 Dec 2012, at 16:47, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Even smaller - I am pretty sure the problem I had was just to the North of
 Stanhope

 You are right, there are plenty of opportunities to add footpaths to
 Weardale.
 I concentrated on the Weardale Way (which you can see on Lonvia's Hiking
 Map if you are interested (
 http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/en/?zoom=11lat=54.72073lon=-1.8885)).


 When we met a branching footpath I tried to record a short stub to show it
 is there, but we have not followed most of them.There is also a marked
 'Mineral Valley's Walk' through the area that we will probably try to
 follow during 2013but there are huge numbers of 'normal' public
 footpaths too.my challenge is trying to incorporate these into a nice
 walk, as we don't tend to go 'mapping' - we go for a walk, and I take my
 GPX receiver with me!

 Cheers


 Graham.



 On 31 December 2012 16:20, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 It's a small world, the incident I described was also in Weardale near
 Thimbleby Hill South of Stanhope. I didn't use OSM then and checking OSM
 the path is not marked. A path on the opposite side of the wall where the
 farmer was stood is marked which is incorrect and will lead to someone else
 being shouted at unless I fix it.

 There is a massive job to add all of the paths in Weardale to OSM. I will
 gradually add them as I am out walking. I have GPX tracks of many previous
 walks and good records.

 Steven


 On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Graham Jones 
 grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote:

 I have had similar issues, but without the abusive farmer in your part
 of the world? (Weardale).  My old OS map said the Weardale w
 Way went through this field, and there was a waymark at the junction
 with the road, but once in the (very large!) field, there was no obvious
 way out - just rusty gates and barbed wire - I think the route was changed,
 but they didn't take down all the old waymarks, which left a lot of paths
 to nowhere.   Can't remember how I mapped that in the end

 Graham.




 I had walked across his field according to the map which was a couple
 of years old and got to the end of the field to find a padlocked gate. I
 returned back to the sign and it was pointing in a different direction
 (straight ahead) and also had 3 way markers all pointing straight ahead. I
 presumed the route had been changed so followed the arrow after a about 50
 yards I heard various abuse from over the wall. The farmer was angry that
 we weren't following the map and could we read one. We explained (or tried
 to) but he said the gate was someone elses and that was the only way we
 could go. There were no visible paths on the ground in any direction.


 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




 --
 www.stevenhorner.com  http://www.stevenhorner.com
  @stevenhorner http://twitter.com/stevenhorner
  0191 645 2265
  stevenhorner




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Marking landuse and field boundaries

[Graham Jones]

I would like to see field boundaries and land uses in OSM, for the same
reason as you.   I think the main reason that there are not many in there,
is that they are very difficult to survey.  I have just added them from
memory when I have been able to remember enough - it is more realistic to
add them now that we have high resolution Bing imagery for countryside
areas, but it is a lot of work, even from an armchair.

Graham.

On 31 December 2012 21:17, Steven Horner ste...@stevenhorner.com wrote:

 Personally I would love to see fields (landuse) and the walls/fences that
 make this up marked on OSM but as per the Wiki this is a complicated area:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Land_use_and_areas_of_natural_land

 I mapped a small area with landuse and some fences months ago but
 refrained from doing anymore because not many others appear to be doing it.
 You can see what I did here:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.72508907318115lon=-1.7569917440414429zoom=17

 Some of this I need to fix, it was my early days of OSM editing.

 I would love to use OSM one day as a replacement for Explorer (25K) maps
 but until things like walls/fences are shown it would be hard to do. My
 idea was to use the OSM to produce some walking guides in printed or static
 form but they would need this data added for those areas.

 I know everyones view is different but do others on here use the landuse
 and barrier=fence tags in the same way or does it make it look too
 complicated.

 Steven

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Yorkshire Dales or Forest of Bowland - unmapped areas?

[Graham Jones]

I'd recommend a bit further North - Weardale is one of my favourites at the
moment (around Stanhope or Froserley).  I'm pretty sure you can get a bus
from Darlington or Bishop Auckland.   There is still plenty to do - the
Weardale Way is complete, but there are loads of footpaths branching off it
that are just stubs, and a marked Mineral Valleys Walk which needs
following.   A nice mixture of scenery and industrial archaeology if you
like that sort of thing!

Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Find My Nearest Cash Machine

[Graham Jones]

 Seem Graham beat me to publishing a map of the ATMs:
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/230



But yours looks nicer, and doesn't have odd references to breweries mixed
in with ATMs!

When I looked at doing this I struggled with banks - how do we know if they
have ATMs or not?  Some have them tagged explicitly as separate nodes, but
not sure what to assume if there is only an 'amenity=bank'.

Cheers

Graham.


 --
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Google Maps using Sustrans Cycling data

[Graham Jones]

 For example in my area (Newcastle/Gateshead) I've worked to get good
 surveys
 and mapping of the NCN72, but the NCN14 on the south side of the river is
 very patchy and isn't mapped at all for large stretches.

 Sounds like I had better go for a bike ride Up North then.   I thought it
NCN14 was complete all the way to Newcastle, so I will ride it one weekend
once summer arrives..

Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Permissive paths and uncrecorded rights of way

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
If there is a path on the ground but nothing to say it is a public footpath
etc, I just tag it as highway=path with no designation.

Graham

On 26 Apr 2012 16:29, cotswolds mapper osmcotswo...@gmail.com wrote:

[New here (to OSM, not to mapping), so I'm not sure if I'm making this
point in the right way or the right place. It's effectively a comment on
the UK wiki changes, but I can't see how to reply to that thread.]

It's been bothering me for a while that there is a gap in tagging
guidelines relating to well-used (and possibly long-standing) paths that
are not official rights of way.  Certainly a newcomer reading the
guidelines could get the impression that everything is one of RoW,
permissive path or unknown, and I don't think that is true.

Two examples from the area I'm working in (Cotswolds between
Stroud/Cirencester/Birdlip).

1) There is a path through a wood I have been using on and off for nearly
twenty years. It's clearly well used, mainly by dog walkers. There are no
signs indicating the wood is private, and they are using it as of right. If
someone tried to close it, I'm pretty sure it could be proved that a right
of way exists.

2) In several villages (e.g. Eastcombe) I have found public 'ways' which
are not official RoWs:
On OS 1:25k maps (both historic and modern) they are shown as white roads.
They feel like public rather than private land, with dry stone walls on
both sides, and no stiles or gates or restrictions.
'Proper' rights of way branch off them.
They are maintained at public expense (parish council workman cuts the
grass twice a year, and sometimes there's a tarmac strip), and are well
used (because the roads are narrow with no pavement).
I would expect them to be ORPAs, but mostly they are not, and I have found
too many for it to be an OS transcription error.

In both cases, 'permissive' is completely inappropriate because people have
used these ways as of right for many years, but they are not status unknown.

More generally, I have read that there are thousands of miles of
'lost/unrecorded' RoW in... (England? UK? ... can't remember), and OSM
mappers should be finding some of these. While all sorts of tags are
possible for the experienced, the novice is likely to restrict themselves
to wiki options.

At the moment, the wiki reads to me as if 'permissive' is the fall through
option once you have established that a way is not a RoW.  IMO mappers
should be discouraged from thinking like that and only record a way as
'permissive' if there is clear evidence that it is not used as of right.
(And also be open to the idea that permissive signs may be wrong, but
that's for another thread...)

I think there then needs to be a tag (or two) for other ways that are not
RoW, but not clearly permissive. For my first example, maybe 'traditional'
or 'informal' would do.

For my second example, which seems to me an obvious example of something
falling through the crack between the council road's department and RoW
department, I would be inclined to use 'de facto RoW', because it's hard to
imagine anyone disputing the use, but there would need to be a high
standard of evidence on the ground to use that term.

Rob

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] New VectorMapDistrict comparison maps on ITO Map

[Graham Jones]

Peter,
This is very good, thank you - It is a nice easy check to see whether there
are areas that need more attention.
One thing that I would find useful would be an 'Edit' button that would
open the same view in Potlatch2 to help correct little issues easily (like
some of those roads with odd kinks in because I had moved a node
accidentally etc.).

Graham.

On 13 March 2012 20:21, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:

 I am pleased to be able announce that ITO Map now has a bunch of new map
 views comparing data in OSM with VectorMapDistrict. There are 7 new maps:
 two comparing roads in OSM with those in VMD (one highlighting omissions in
 VMD and the other from OSM), and also maps comparing railways, electricity,
 water, woodland and building data in the two map bases.

 The version of VMD we are using is probably not the most recent and we are
 also aware of some odd times on zoom 8. We will ensure that we using the
 latest VMD within the next few days and will be taking a look at the
 problems with zoom 8.

 In the mean time I hope it is useful.
 http://www.itoworld.com/map/group/21

 These maps use our new ITO Map interface with a place search and sharing
 options which we rolled out last week.


 Regards,


 Peter Miller
 ITO World Ltd




 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

If we treat path and footway as synonims, that would be ok.   The only
thing is that I (maybe incorrectly) treat footway as having an implied
access permission (things like little paved walkways in towns) - a bit like
highway=unclassified.

On the other hand I treat highway=path as just being a statement of fact -
'there is a path here', so it needs some access tags adding to it.   In my
mind highway = footway is about the same as highway=path; foot=yes (or
maybe designation=public_footpath, but that is more specific).

We should clarify this if we are going to treat them the same or adopt one
over the other.

Graham.

from my phone

On 18 Feb 2012 08:28, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:


Possibly relevant here: Freemap's database has a rural bias, as it covers
only certain counties: specifically W Sussex, Surrey, Hampshire, Wiltshire
and Somerset in the south;
Cheshire, Derbyshire, Lancashire and Cumbria in the north; and all of
Wales. The dominance of footway still holds:

footway (all) 81766
path (all) 14904
footway + designation 11711
path + designation 2042
footway + foot=permissive 3699
path + foot=permissive 1619

However I'd agree that what would really be interesting is the trend.

The main thing that comes out of this data is how many footways OR paths
lack either a designation tag or a foot=permissive.
I suspect that many of these are rights of way or permissive paths. Since
we really want to let people know where they can
definitely walk, I think this is a more important issue to fix than footway
vs path!

Nick

-Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
grahamjones...@gmail.comwrote: -

To: Andrew Chadwick a.t.chadw...@gmail.com a.t.chadw...@gmail.com
From: Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com grahamjones...@gmail.com
Date: 17/02/2012 07:43PM
Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki:
due for an update?





 On 17 February 2012 17:35, Andrew Chadwick a.t.chadw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd still ...

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org...


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

Hi
You are dead right - I was talking about paths as in narrow strips of
ground for walking on.

I would tag a public footpath as highway=whatever is appropriate:
unclassified|residential|service|track|path, designation=public_footpath.

Graham.

On 18 February 2012 10:48, Derick Rethans o...@derickrethans.nl wrote:

 Hi,

 On Sat, 18 Feb 2012, Graham Jones wrote:

  On the other hand I treat highway=path as just being a statement of fact
 -
  'there is a path here', so it needs some access tags adding to it.   In
 my
  mind highway = footway is about the same as highway=path; foot=yes (or
  maybe designation=public_footpath, but that is more specific).

 During the Weybridge mapping party, I'd encountered some residential
 roads (highway=residential) or service roads (highway=service) that were
 also public footpaths, so I've mapped those as:

 highway=residential
 designation=public_footpath

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/150222454

 Marking those roads as highway=footway or highway=path makes no sense
 (to me).

 cheers,
 Derick

 --
 http://derickrethans.nl | http://xdebug.org
 Like Xdebug? Consider a donation: http://xdebug.org/donate.php
 twitter: @derickr and @xdebug




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

On 17 February 2012 15:43, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.ukwrote:


 From my understanding, a minimum of ONE to TWO tags are needed:

 a) a highway tag. This represents the physical properties of the way, e.g.
 service, track, path (or footway - see below)
 b) if applicable, a designation tag. This represents the RoW status.

 I agree - I will normally tag a public footpath as highway = path | track,
designation = public_footpath.  I may include a surface=gravel | paved if
it is not a mud path.
I too only use highway=footway for urban footpaths, but you see plenty of
them in the country and I don't usually bother changing them.
I think there is an issue of rendering on the main mapnik stylesheet - If I
remember correctly highway=path renders differently to highway=footway.   I
was going to look for a nice example of a mixture in the North Yorkshire
Moors or Weardale, but it looks like someone has changed them to
highway=path, so can't find any just now!

Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

On 17 February 2012 17:35, Andrew Chadwick a.t.chadw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd still love to see some areas with big outbreaks of
 highway=path+designation-only, or highway=path+access-tags-only as
 representations of public paths. Must throw down some overpass-api
 quadrats around the country to see what people are doing in various
 areas, before we completely throw highway=path to the Germans.
 Statistically, would highway=path + designation=public_footpath vs.
 highway=footway + designation=public_footpath be a worthwhile
 comparison? Should get around the legacy issue with h=footway.

 I have just had a play with my shiny new British Isles database import
with a hstore, so that I can get to the 'designation' tag.   The following
queries are looking at highway = footway v's highway=path, with or without
some sort of designation (ie designation or foot not null).

osm_gb_hs=# --total with a designation
osm_gb_hs=# select highway, count(way) as
count,cast(sum(st_length2d(way)/1000.) as int) as totLen from
planet_osm_line where (highway='footway' or highway='path') and
(((tags-'designation') is not null) or (foot is not null)) group by
highway order by highway, totLen desc;
 highway | count  | totlen
-++
 footway | 124970 |  66566
 path|  27154 |  17313
(2 rows)

osm_gb_hs=#
osm_gb_hs=# --total without a designation
osm_gb_hs=# select highway, count(way) as
count,cast(sum(st_length2d(way)/1000.) as int) as totLen from
planet_osm_line where (highway='footway' or highway='path') and
(((tags-'designation') is  null) and (foot is null)) group by highway
order by highway, totLen desc;
 highway | count  | totlen
-++
 footway | 224678 |  59942
 path|  28628 |  14235
(2 rows)

You can see that there are many more highway=footway rather than
highway=path in the british isles.   I think the totlen column is the total
length in km, but my postgis is not very good so this could be wrong.

Basically this says that there are 224k footways without a designation of
some sort, and 125k with a designation.
Similarly, there are 28k paths without a designation and 27k with a
designation.  [there are also over 20k highway=bridleway, which is an odd
one].

Is this the sort of query you were thinking of?   Of course I can produce
huge lists of all the combinations of designations and foot values, but not
that sure how useful that is, or how to present it.   This is for the whole
uk, so includes urban areas, which could account for the very large
proportion of footways over paths.  I wonder if there are relations for the
national parks so I could run a few queries for those areas?

Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] United Kingdom Tagging Guidelines on the OSM wiki: due for an update?

[Graham Jones]

I think I have worked out how to do the query using national park
relations, and get the following results for a small sample:

National Park | Footway (no des) | Footway (des) | path (no
des) | path (des) |
New Forest (way ID 129493402) |   153|   213 |98
  |  493   |
North York Moors (rel 409150) |   294|   440 |   100
  |  103   |
Lake District (rel 287917)|   952|  1572 |   245
  |  187   |

So, I think you are right that highway=footway is more used, even in rural
areas (except for the New Forest in the sample above).
A more interesting comparison may be which are being created though,
because highway=footway may be legacy stuff - I certainly used to use it,
but stopped after a while and switched to highway=path.

Hope that helps.

Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Backwards Areas

[Graham Jones]

Ah. That would account for why I can not explain the effect from my edits -
thanks!
I just assumed it was my fault because of the timing, and at high zoom the
first unaffected tile was next to the area I edited.

Cheers

Graham

from my phone

On 15 Feb 2012 09:03, Peter Reed peter.r...@aligre.co.uk wrote:

Graham,

** **

I don’t think this is anything to do with your edit. 

** **

About the same time as you edited Finchale, somebody accidentally
added “building=yes” to the admin-area relation for North-East
England, so the whole region turned into a building.

** **

It was fixed fairly quickly, and I think it has all been re-rendered
on mapnik now.

** **

Pete









 Hi All,



 I had a mishap today when I added a closed area way around the Finchale
...

* http://maps3.org.uk/images/OSM_colour_fill.png showing one of the*



 affected tiles that was left in my browser cache after I corrected it.



 The reason I am su...

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Backwards Areas

[Graham Jones]

Thanks - I thought there was some sort of anticlockwise rule, but I had
never noticed it make any difference.

GJ

from my phone

On 15 Feb 2012 10:38, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

On 14 February 2012 19:34, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
  but I made the way run...
Just for clarity, there's no difference between clockwise and
anticlockwise polygons in OSM. Either direction works fine.

There are, of course, one or two exceptions, the principle one being
coastlines where you might be able to describe a whole island with
just one way. But for buildings, gardens, ruins etc, there's no
difference.

Cheers,
Andy
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Backwards Areas

[Graham Jones]

Try again without the image attached...

On 14 February 2012 19:28, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All,

 I had a mishap today when I added a closed area way around the Finchale
 Priory ruins in County Durham (
 http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap/client/brewmap.html?lon=-1.5409719944000244lat=54.81767586923475z=16).


 I tagged the closed way with historic=abbey, ruins=yes, barrier=fence
 (because there is a fence around the outside), but I made the way run
 clockwise rather than anticlockwise.
 This seemed to start flooding County Durham with a funny grey-purple
 colour (I am colour blind, sorry!) - image here
 http://maps3.org.uk/images/OSM_colour_fill.png showing one of the
 affected tiles that was left in my browser cache after I corrected it.

 The reason I am surprised at this effect is that now that I have reversed
 the way, things have returned to normal, but the inside of the way is not
 shaded (certainly not with the dark colour on the attached image).

 I am quite surprised by this - does anyone know what happened?

 Cheers


 Graham.

 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Example of OSM National Turst property map?

[Graham Jones]

 Looks useful - could you add Cadw and Historic Scotland to the
 highlighted operators? (EG
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/117407496 )


Done!   http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap

Now does CADW, Historic Scotland and Scottish Heritage.  I ran out of
coloured dots though, so will need some non-copyright infringing icons to
use

Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Example of OSM National Turst property map?

[Graham Jones]

Not quite what you asked for, but your question persuaded me to do
something that I have intended to do for ages, which is to map where the
National Trust / English Heritage properties are on the map, so you can
have a look at how they have been mapped

You can see a very quick go at it here:  http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap.
(if you click on one of the coloured markers, there is a link to the OSM
object in the popup).

I know it is not National Trust, but I am quite pleased with Dover Castle (
http://maps3.org.uk/EH_NTMap/client/brewmap.html?lon=1.322876214981079lat=51.12747179411275z=16),
even if I forgot to add the 'operator' tag to make it appear on my new
map...

I think there is a lot of scope for micro-mapping these sort of places, but
we could do with a specific rendering - castles especially need rendering
for embankments and ditches to give an impression of the topography,
country houses need flower beds etc.   I did start a style to render Dover
Castle like that...will see if I can find an example for you, but I think
it is a long way off being something you would use to show off!.

Regards

Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] How to get a Relation History?

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
I am trying to find the history of the relation covering the Weardale Way (
86561 ).   I can view the relation itself ok at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/86561, but when I try to view
the history of it with
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/86561/history, I always get a
'sorry...took too long to retrieve' error.
Does anyone know an alternative way of finding out who edited it before me?

Alternatively, I'll ask the question here in case the other user reads this
list

During the Summer I had a go at mapping the Weardale Way from Killhope
eastwards.   We found it very poorly signposted and there seem to be quite
a few branches off it according to the signs (I suspect that the 'official'
route may have changed, but there are some old signs still in place on the
ground).   Since then someone has had a good go at finishing it off, and it
looks like it is complete all the way to the coast now (
http://hiking.lonvia.de/relation/86561?zoom=11lat=54.7635lon=-1.93298route=1hill=1.56).


We were out near Wolsingham yesterday (
http://hiking.lonvia.de/relation/86561?zoom=13lat=54.72406lon=-1.905route=1hill=1.56)
and I found another 'Weardale Way' public footpath sign, that seems to form
a spur off to the West of Wolsingham...but I didn't see any other signs, so
it looks like a path to nowhere.

I am minded to believe that the sign I saw with 'Weardale Way' written on
it was a mistake and it should have been a plain 'public footpath' sign,
but I do not know how to check this.   I wondered if whoever had completed
the Weardale Way had another source of information about the route that we
can use in OSM to check it.   If we can confirm that the sign is incorrect,
I will remove the extra spur path from the route.

On a related subject, there are a lot of signs for a 'Mineral Valleys Walk'
in that area that take you past a lot of old industrial artefacts - I'll
have a go at mapping that in the Spring if anyone would like to help.

Thanks


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] How to get a Relation History?

[Graham Jones]

 There's a great OSM Deep History services at http://osm.mapki.com/history/

 http://osm.mapki.com/history/relation.php?id=86561

 Thanks Andy - I had forgotten about that.

Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] How to get a Relation History?

[Graham Jones]

On 15 January 2012 10:27, David Dixon da...@ddixon.force9.co.uk wrote:


 I'm not the user who recently finished off the Weardale Way (and I don't
 know whether that was done from survey) but surveying the Way has been one
 of my projects.  The route between Frosterley and Wolsingham used to be a
 low level route running close to the railway (the way you've just walked),
 but was subsequently changed to a more interesting higher level route (the
 one that's part of the complete OSM relation).  The signs you saw have
 almost certainly been superseded, but perhaps could be mapped as a separate
 Old Weardale Way or alternative route relation?

 A change of route would be consistent with what I have seen on the ground
- if I have followed the old route in places, it could account for why it
is so badly signed!
I think having a 'Weardale Way Alternate Route' relation is probably the
best approach, otherwise you get a bit of a mess with all the little bits
of route that do not appear to go anywhere.
I will email the others who have contributed to the route to see what they
know about the alternative bits.

Cheers

Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Hi Will,
I have put what I had previously back on line at
http://www.maps.webhop.net/canals.

The data is quite out of date (maybe 10 months) - I realised that I am
lacking the 'boat=' tag from my database so can not re-render it tonight -
I will re-generate it over the next couple of days.

I did not think anyone was using this because there is an alternative at
http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/ito_map/main?view=24.

This one could be developed into more of a 'user' map rather than a
'mapper' tool though - if you are interested in developing the cartography
that would be great - it could do with icons for locks, moorings, water,
fuel etc.

I will move this to my 'maps3.org.uk' site (which is more responsive) from
an end user point of view once I have sorted out the database so I can
render the tiles on demand.

Regards


Graham.

On 1 January 2012 17:55, Will Abson will.ab...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Graham, I came across your waterways map a little while ago, and
 thought it was a great visualisation tool.

 I'm just now trying to take a fresh look at some of the waterways data
 for the UK that's held within OSM, but I see that your map is sadly no
 longer accessible (I get a 404).

 If you'd be interested in making it available again then I could
 perhaps provide some assistance as I have a small Linode server that's
 currently not doing too much, but I would need your help to explain
 how you put the map together.

 It would be great to get the waterways map (or something similar) back
 online again, so please let me know if I can help.

 Cheers,
 Will.

 On 2 February 2011 21:02, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi Folks,
 
  Thanks to Chris for reminding me, I have updated my canals / waterways
 map -
  it should now be up to date as of the early hours of this morning
  (http://maps.webhop.net/canals).
 
  It looks like good progress from the last update - much more like a
 network
  now, but there are still some gaps!
 
  The things I noticed from my part of the country is that the River Tyne
 is
  not rendered - must not have a 'boat=yes' tag - does anyone know how far
 up
  the river you can get a boat to add this?
  Conversely I am not convinced that the river Wear upstream of Durham is
  navigable - I thought it got pretty shallow at Shincliffe?   Also there
 is
  the problem of a Weir, so maybe there are only bits of it downstream that
  are navigable too?
 
  This is still running on the computer in my living room so will seem slow
  because of my internet connection, but I am working on getting minutely
  updating working on a little virtual server, which will seem better from
 the
  outside world - I will be looking for suggestions for other
 visualisations
  to include once I have got that working (adding more is very easy once
 it is
  working), so please think of anything else you would like to see.
 
  Graham.
 
  On 19 January 2011 21:28, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Thank you all for your comments.
 
  Dealing with 'disused' was nice and easy - I have deleted disused locks
  altogether and changed disused canals to a fainter, dotted line (see
 just
  north of Carnforth near Lancaster).  I am not sure I have ever seen a
  'disused' canal - does this mean a ditch, or just an overgrown,
 impassable
  canal?
 
  I have also prevented locks being shown until you zoom in to zoom level
  10.  Updated version now rendering at http://maps.webhop.net/canals,
 using
  the mapnik style http://maps.webhop.net/canals/canal2.xml..
 
  Adding navigable rivers is a good idea, but will take more doing because
  my database does not include the 'boat=' tag - I will have to re-import
 the
  whole uk, which takes a few hours...
 
  Are there any other waterway specific tags that should be included?
 
  What points of interest should a waterways map highlight - I only have
  locks at the moment, because I remember these being the interesting
 part of
  canal boating, but I can add other things - especially if anyone would
 like
  to draw an icon for it - otherwise we will end up with another one of my
  dodgy drawings!
 
  Graham.
 
 
 
  On 19 January 2011 19:24, Chris Moss mosch...@googlemail.com wrote:
 
  Thanks Graham and Malcolm,
 
  Certainly I can see for the first time where the gaps are in the
 waterway
  coverage and it encourages me to explore mapnik and see how everything
  works.
 
  Chris
 
 
  ___
  Talk-GB mailing list
  Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
 
 
 
 
  --
  Graham Jones
  Hartlepool, UK.
 
 
 
 
  --
  Graham Jones
  Hartlepool, UK.
 
 
  ___
  Talk-GB mailing list
  Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
 




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo

Re: [Talk-GB] OS VectorMap water feature import

[Graham Jones]

If not, I have got them on dvd if anyone would like them - probably quicker
for me to post them than upload to a server - I prefer handling the new
bigger files because it keeps the style files for rendering simpler.

Graham

from my phone

On 13 Dec 2011 08:51, Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com wrote:

Is the version from os.openstreetmap the original?
http://os.openstreetmap.org/data/
Cheers
Andy



 -Original Message-
 From: Borbus [mailto:bor...@gmail.com]
 Sent: 12 December 2011 22:...
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] OS VectorMap water feature import

[Graham Jones]

On 11 December 2011 18:46, Tim François sk1pp...@yahoo.co.uk

 The entire process took a long, long time (we're talking many hours), as
 the OS data is all fragmented and needs joining up.

 This is one where it is certainly possible to import the data, but to do
it manually is going to be a huge amount of effort, and I wonder if it is
really worth the effort?

I see the main benefit of OSM in providing 'added value' geographic data
that is not available in other freely available sources.   Last time I made
a map of an outdoor area, I found that the OS Vector Map District (VMD)
water features added a lot to it, because the OSM data was pretty plain.
In the end I actually made the map from a mixture of OSM and VMD Data, with
SRTM generated contours.
I certainly used OSM footpaths and route relations (because they are not in
any of the other data sets) - as I wanted to highlight a walking route.

I used VMD waterways because they were far more complete than OSM.
I think that for the area I was working on (Weardale) I used VMD roads too,
because there are still a lot missing from OSM.

Where I struggled was in woodland areas - you get a lot more if you use
VMD, but I also know that quite a lot have been felled, which can be
changed in OSM, but not VMD, so this was a difficult choice.   (You can see
the output 
herehttps://github.com/jones139/Mapnik-OSM-Styles/raw/master/weardale_way/image_vmd_fc.png
(but
there is something wrong with the grid on the version on that server,
sorry!and the rendering style is not as pretty as the main OSM one).

I wonder if a more productive use of our efforts would be in developing
tools to make it easier to make such merged data maps and highlight the
'value added' bits from OSM that make it stand out from a Land Ranger map?
   [Things like showing all the industrial archeology, real ale pubs etc.].

I am working (very slowly) on a tool that will pull together the required
data to produce these sort of things and render it at high resolution for
printing.It is not at the sort of state that I would publish it and
recommend that someone just tries it (no nice front end), but it is getting
there and I can make maps from it when I want to.  I would be happy to put
more effort into it if there was interest (or anyone interested in
helping!).

One final thing is that if we do say that we will not import the VMD data
into OSM, this means that it will not appear on the main OSM web site map.
  We could show off what is possible though by making a 'osm-uk' site with
a web map that combines the various data sources in a web map?

Regards


Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 27 November 2011 12:07, Craig Loftus craigloftus+...@googlemail.com
 wrote:

  There has been a little discussion on the talk page about this. I
  think Andy is mainly interested in specialist shops (shop=alcohol) and
  noting whether they sell real ale, either draught or bottled. As a
  first punt I suggested overloading real_ale (real_beer), with
  'draught' and 'bottled' values.
 
  Did we agree on these tags?

 Nobody disagreed. There haven't been any other suggestions, or the
 objections I expected to the use of real_beer.


Go on then, I'll disagree - why do we need a new key called real_beer
(currently 1 use in the database) when there is an existing key called
real_ale with 878 entries in the database.

It could be that I am not a beer-buff and don't appreciate the distinction,
but they are synonymous to my simple mind, so I would have just gone with
real_ale, which is a more common term as far as I am aware.

ducks waiting for abuse from fans of real beer!

I am happy to try out our current rendering system with pubs, but I think
it will feel a bit sluggish (lots more data than for breweries etc.) -
working on a better system now...
But I will need a bribe - Icons.

If someone provides a set of icons for un-real and real ale (beer) pubs,
off-licences etc, I will put them on a map for you!   PNG images at say
32x32 pixels will be fine.

Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 It is only splitting hairs if your beer horizon extends no further
 than the channel.

 Where I was coming from is that I think that 'real-stuff=yes' is useful as
it distinguishes the supplier of 'craft' products from 'industrial' ones.
The problem is that there are lots of different types of stuff - ale, beer,
cider, perry - I am sure there are lots more.

Having a separate key for each one seems a bit over the top, because at one
level a user may just want to know if a place just sells Carlsberg and John
Smiths, or something more interesting.
Those with more advanced pallets than I may well then be interested if it
the interesting thing is ale, beer, fancy Belgian lager things, German
wheat beer, hand crushed apple cider etc. etc.

Therefore I would prefer to see a more generic type of 'real-stuff' key
used which can be 'yes' or 'ale|beer|.', depending on how keen the
mapper is feeling.

We could then show every outlet with 'real-stuff'!=null on the map and link
to its web site.   We could also have different icons for different values
of 'real-stuff'.   An equivalent of tagQueries could identify where
philistines have said real-stuff=yes, so a connoisseur can add the extra
detail if required.

I thought that 'real ale' had become quite a generic term so could have
been used as a synonym for 'real-stuff', but it would be interesting to
know what the Germans and Belgians would call their posh beers to see if
real-ale is too English - or is that where the proposal for 'real-beer'
came from?


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 25 November 2011 10:02, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:

 The page is working for me again. Yes, “Former Brewery” is the former
 Ridley’s site. Bishop Nick launched their first beer at The Compasses,
 Littley Green (next village over) recently; their old brewery tap. Not sure
 what the site used for now, but am about to change “name” to “description”
 as it has never been called “Former Brewery”.

 ** **

 Ed


 Maybe 'Former' in the name is a bit of a giveaway and I should filter
those out of the tagQueries listI suppose the question is are there any
'Former Mansfield Brewery' etc., now brewing something else?

For the non-beer lover's out there, you may notice that Craig has
implemented layer switching, so you can click on the map key on
BrewMaphttp://brewmap.maps3.org.ukto switch layers on and off, so
you can just look at for instance wineries
if you prefer.   I am quite surprised how many wineries there are in the
UK

Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 I notice the South/ South West is looking a bit empty, so I started a list
 of places I know but need investigating further before marking on the map
 (some I could do as single node as a very rough placement - but should be
 able to get better trace / identify stuff using Bing Aerials).

 Thanks to user m902 for mapping some that were on my list.

 Thanks - I saw 'm902' had been busy!

In case some of you wonder what has happened to vineyards, I have removed
things that are just tagged as 'landuse=vineyard' from the map (on the
ground that that means a field full of plants, and as Craig said if we do
that for wine, we should show hopp fields for beer).   I am now showing
only craft/industry = winery instead.  But because lots of vineyards are
wineries too, I have added them to the tagQueries page.

Regards


Graham.

On 23 November 2011 23:05, Robert Norris rw_nor...@hotmail.com wrote:

 --

Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 22 November 2011 09:02, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:

 Is there a way to flag false positives?

Well, I don't have one at the moment.   I was thinking of trying to refine
them out of the tagQueries list by trapping landuse=retail etc., but you
are right that this will not work for everything.

It is a bit of an abuse of the tag, but makes sense to me, so how
about brewery=no?

Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 22 November 2011 20:46, Craig Loftus craigloftus+...@googlemail.comwrote:

  It is a bit of an abuse of the tag, but makes sense to me, so how
  about brewery=no?

 I think this is backwards. There is nothing wrong with naming
 something a brewery but it not being one. The marker should be applied
 to the tagQuery list, similar to Keepright. You could then write more
 exclusion rules if a pattern emerges from the entries being marked.


You are right a separate exclusions list just for this map would be the
most 'correct' thing to do to save putting spurious tags in the OSM
database.  I was being lazy though - a check for brewery!='no' tag is
trivial to implement, whereas a way of allowing users to add items to an
exclusions list takes a bit more doing (at least if we want a bit of
security like user authentication).

I do have a nearly finished codeigniter/bonfire application that could run
on my server that does user authentication and I could add a module to that
to manage an exclusions list, but I have never quite got around to
finishing it.

Could just do it manually for now I suppose?

Graham.

 --

Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] Naptan Imports

[Graham Jones]

Hi,
I just found a node tagged with lots of things to do with naptan.  It looks
like it should be a bus stop, but there is no highway=bus_stop tag on it. (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/471495304).

I just wonder what to do with it - can either add highway=bus_stop because
it was probably supposed to have that on it, or delete it because it does
not seem to be doing anything.  I would just like to do something with it
because it is turning up as a possible brewery on the BrewMap.

Any thoughts?  I don't know how the naptan data was imported to know if
this is a common problem or not?

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

I have had a good go at removing false positives from the
BrewMaphttp://brewmap.maps3.org.uk
tagQueries http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/tagQueries.html page by
coding it into the query I use to generate the list.
There are a few odd things that I think are supposed to be bus-stops
showing up, but most of the others look like genuine queries that may be
breweries or distilleries.

This means we might not need too many exclusions now, so manual will
probably be ok if we need it.

Regards


Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 I have just added Craig's address lookup code to the BrewMap popups, along
 with some changes I have made to the key and statistics bits.


 Oh, this is a bit of a shame in my view. Now the map shows the address for
 this brewery, which has no address info in OSM (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1394002177) but not for this
 brewery, which has all the relevant address data (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1509609059).

 Shouldn't the map be encouraging people to add in that data? It's not hard
 to discover.

 I see what you mean - hadn't really thought about it that way - just
trying to get the best information available out of the database.   If it
is failing on something that has address data in the database though, it
sounds wrong.

Let me give some thought to how to do it - maybe if there is address data
we should use that, otherwise fall back on a nominatim derived address with
it drawn differently and a 'please fix the address' note.


Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

I forgot to say, I have improved the BrewMap tagQuery code, so there is now
a long list of potential breweries, distilleries and vineyards on the
tagQuery http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/tagQueries.html page on
http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk if anyone would like to use some local
knowledge to tag them.

Thanks

Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 For some reason this tag query was not picking up the Adnams brewery
 which was named Adnams Brewery.  I have updated this one but there may
 be some more that are not appearing on the list.

 Thanks - I had better look at the tagQueries code and see what is
happening - I have had a couple of reports of things not appearing on the
list that we would have expected.

Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

This was supposed to go to the list, sorry!

On 20 November 2011 15:30, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 I am just looking through the BrewMap http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk
 tagQueries http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/tagQueries.html page and
 am curious about the Bulmers brewery which is east of Limerick (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34929891).   Do you think it is
 safe to assume that this is a cider producer (industrial=cider), or do
 Bulmers brew beer too?

 Just trying to reduce the number on the list!

 Graham.


 --
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

Thanks - That's good enough for me - I have changed it to
'industrial=cider' with a note in the FIXME that this is a judgement.

Graham.

On 20 November 2011 21:46, John Sturdy jcg.stu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm sure this is a cider brewery, I've driven past it quite a few
 times and remember seeing the signage.  (I used to live near
 Limerick). I don't know of any beers from Bulmers, I'm pretty sure
 they're only ciders.

 __John

 On 11/20/11, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
  This was supposed to go to the list, sorry!
 
  On 20 November 2011 15:30, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Hi,
  I am just looking through the BrewMap http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk
  tagQueries http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/tagQueries.html page
 and
  am curious about the Bulmers brewery which is east of Limerick (
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34929891).   Do you think it is
  safe to assume that this is a cider producer (industrial=cider), or do
  Bulmers brew beer too?
 
  Just trying to reduce the number on the list!
 
  Graham.
 
 
  --
  Graham Jones
  Hartlepool, UK.
 




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
I have just added Craig's address lookup code to the BrewMap popups, along
with some changes I have made to the key and statistics bits.

It sort of works for me - If I access the main site as '
http://maps3.org.uk/BrewMap' it works fine.   But, if I go to
http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk, it does not work.   I have no idea why,
because they point a the same files.

Does anyone else see this?  I am using a mobile internet connection at the
moment, which does some odd filtering to the code, and I have heard of that
breaking javascript if there is a minor bug in the javascript code, but
don't know if that is the reason or notand why it should matter how I
access the files is beyond me!

Anyway, too late to do any more now.

Thanks

Graham.

On 20 November 2011 22:27, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks - That's good enough for me - I have changed it to
 'industrial=cider' with a note in the FIXME that this is a judgement.

 Graham.


 On 20 November 2011 21:46, John Sturdy jcg.stu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm sure this is a cider brewery, I've driven past it quite a few
 times and remember seeing the signage.  (I used to live near
 Limerick). I don't know of any beers from Bulmers, I'm pretty sure
 they're only ciders.

 __John

 On 11/20/11, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
  This was supposed to go to the list, sorry!
 
  On 20 November 2011 15:30, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Hi,
  I am just looking through the BrewMap http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk
  tagQueries http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/tagQueries.html page
 and
  am curious about the Bulmers brewery which is east of Limerick (
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34929891).   Do you think it
 is
  safe to assume that this is a cider producer (industrial=cider), or do
  Bulmers brew beer too?
 
  Just trying to reduce the number on the list!
 
  Graham.
 
 
  --
  Graham Jones
  Hartlepool, UK.
 




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

Hi Folks,
I have just changed over the BrewMap (http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk) to use
the 'industrial=' tag rather than 'industry='.
This has swapped quite a few big breweries from the map to the tagQueries
list, so if anyone gets bored, feel free to change the tags to
'industrial=brewery'.

I have also got the system working in a much more configurable way with a
single file to define all of the different features you want to display, so
I will add distilleries etc. this weekend, along with a layer switcher so
you can alter what is shown on the map from the web browser.
I am still looking for suggestions for icons if anyone has ideas (or would
like to draw some?).

Thanks


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 17 November 2011 20:55, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:

 On 17 November 2011 19:59, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

  The main list of tags that I will use for BrewMap now are:

 Could the list of specialist tags go on a sub-page of the wiki page?

By all means!


  My question is - have I missed any that I should include for the BrewMap?

 Do we have any (specialist) off-licences, distilleries, wineries or
 vineyards, yet?


Well, someone has been busy - last time I looked there was one distillery
mapped now we have:

   - 22 distilleries
   - 1 winery
   - 0 cider or perry

There may be some mapped as industrial=***, but I can't check those until I
have the new database imported.
Also I haven't checked off licences - not sure what to search for?

Regards


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 mead.

 Good point.  Fortunately that will not need a new key in the database -
phew!

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

Sven, Brian,
There are two reasons that this only works for the UK (or really the UK and
Ireland) at the moment:

   - My OSM database only covers this region.   It could probably cope with
   a larger area (maybe Europe), but I have never tried - it is running on my
   old Laptop so it is not particularly powerful (but does use 20W, and I
   worry about my Carbon footprint!).
   - The method that I use to produce the map would not scale well to large
   areas - there is a single file for each feature for the entire area, so if
   I make the area larger the download time for the files could become very
   large, and make the map feel unresponsive.   (I think that I will struggle
   even to extend the maps to uk pubs, because the pub data file is over 9MB,
   which would need downloading every time a user views the map.  There are
   ways around this:
  - Split the data into different files for different areas (basically
  cut it into tiles like we do map images).
  - Use a database on the server and extract only the data covering the
  area being displayed - could be done, but I do not have the code
to keep a
  mySql database on a remote server up to date with OSM data.

I think that these could be solved, but it will mean a change to the data
handling system. If you are interested in developing one of these, let
me know and we can collaborate on it.

Regards


Graham

On 15 November 2011 15:48, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone

 Whilst I originally envisaged this as a UK project, what Sven has brought
 up does suggest that it has a global perspective, but I doubt if Graham's
 time or server could cope with something that large. The wine industry is
 certainly global and Heineken( not real ale I know!) has 115 plants in 65
 countries. Food (or drink) for thought ;-)

 Regards

 Brian




 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

I forgot a third possible way around it - generate standard image tiles
using Mapnik, and use Mapnik MetaWriters to provide data files for the
popups - again I have not tried this one, but it would probably be the
simplest way of getting to a larger area map with the least coding work
required.

Graham.

On 15 November 2011 23:27, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Sven, Brian,
 There are two reasons that this only works for the UK (or really the UK
 and Ireland) at the moment:

- My OSM database only covers this region.   It could probably cope
with a larger area (maybe Europe), but I have never tried - it is running
on my old Laptop so it is not particularly powerful (but does use 20W, and
I worry about my Carbon footprint!).
- The method that I use to produce the map would not scale well to
large areas - there is a single file for each feature for the entire area,
so if I make the area larger the download time for the files could become
very large, and make the map feel unresponsive.   (I think that I will
struggle even to extend the maps to uk pubs, because the pub data file is
over 9MB, which would need downloading every time a user views the map.
 There are ways around this:
   - Split the data into different files for different areas
   (basically cut it into tiles like we do map images).
   - Use a database on the server and extract only the data covering
   the area being displayed - could be done, but I do not have the code to
   keep a mySql database on a remote server up to date with OSM data.

 I think that these could be solved, but it will mean a change to the data
 handling system. If you are interested in developing one of these, let
 me know and we can collaborate on it.

 Regards


 Graham

 On 15 November 2011 15:48, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone

 Whilst I originally envisaged this as a UK project, what Sven has brought
 up does suggest that it has a global perspective, but I doubt if Graham's
 time or server could cope with something that large. The wine industry is
 certainly global and Heineken( not real ale I know!) has 115 plants in 65
 countries. Food (or drink) for thought ;-)

 Regards

 Brian




 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

On 14 November 2011 09:50, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:

 Should the wiki page mention industrial=brewery rather than
 industry=brewery? landuse=industrial/industrial=* is a more common usage
 (and why at least one of the locally to me tagged breweries doesn’t show).
 

 ** **

 Ed

 --

I had missed the use of the 'industrial' key - I saw that 'industry' was
already used so just recycled it.   There is not much in it - 252 for
industrial and 93 for industry.   I don't really mind which we use, but it
looks like we ought to standardise, as having two similar keys will only
confuse people (like me!).

Failing that I could just look for industry or industrial and save the
debate about which is correct

Graham.

Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

  Was going to say something about the icons but I see they're only
 temporary

I would appreciate suggestions on what to use for icons - I just found the
ones on the map from a freely available icon set.
I think the icons we will need are:

   - Breweries:  Industrial;  Craft;   Microbreweries
   - Cider Manufacturers: Industrial; Craft;  do you get micro cider
   producers?
   - Perry Manufacturers: Craft unless there are industrial perry plants?
   - Distillery: Craft

So I think we need quite a lot of images (or variations on images - a
little apple or pair picture in the corner of the brewery icon for
instance?).

Ideas welcome, because arty things are not my strong point!


Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 Looks good to me, nice work!  Are you going to add distilleries and
 cider houses too?

Thanks - yes will add those this week.   I will probably do a bit of a code
re-hash to make it just use one configuration file for the server side and
client side to make it easy to change what it renders.


 For distilleries I think we need to be more specific about what spirits
 they produce.  I mapped St George's Distillery the other day (the
 English whisky distillery) and invented the tag:

 distillery=whisky

 Do we need to make a distinction between whisky and whiskey?


If we go there, there is probably a host of other possibilities too - vodka
etc., but not sure if anyone makes that in the uk?   Then there is gin - no
idea how you make that

Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 Several old breweries have Wikipedia articles; it would be good,
 please, if you could include those links, where present, in your
 pop-up.

 Is there a tag used for wikipedia articles?  I was going to grab website
and url tags (but that will have to wait until the weekend because I will
need a 24 hour outage to re-import the database.

In general, please add any suggestions for other tags to be used to the
wiki page and I will try to get them all before I re-import the database.

Thanks


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 Problem - I've entered a couple of microbreweries where your map selects
 the name of the pub rather than the name of the microbrewery located on the
 same site e.g  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/136989676 where
 I've tagged the pub with name=  and the brewery with name_1= . Perhaps
 name:brewery= would be better?

 If they are so separate to have different names, I would have been
inclined to add a separate entity for the brewery, even if is just a node
within the area of the pub, which represents the brewery?

Graham.
-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

  I came across the National Brewery Centre tagged as a museum. As it has
 Brewery in its name I would have expected to see it in the tagQueries
 page.


I'll have to think about that.  As far as I can tell it should appear on
the tagQueries list.  The select statement to pick out the entries in
tagQueries is:
   sqlWhereStr =  where name ilike('%brewery%') \
 and (disused is null or disused != 'yes') \
 and (industry is null or industry != 'brewery') \
 and (craft is null or craft != 'brewery') \
 and (highway is null) \
 and (leisure is null) \
 and (landuse != 'farmyard' and landuse!='allotments' and
landuse!='wharf')

It is complicated because I was trying to get rid of 'brewery lane' and
'brewery wharf' etc.   Therefore if it was tagged as 'leisure' it would not
appear, but it appears to be tagged as 'tourism', so I think it should be
thereI might suffer a dose of inspiration later

Graham.

-- 

Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

Hi Folks,


 Okay.
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_Breweries


With some help from Craig Loftus, and a bottle of Old Speckled Hen, I have
set up a first go at a UK BrewMap rendering, using the craft=brewery |
industry=brewery | microbrewery=yes scheme.  You should be able to see it
at http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk.

Please have a go at beaking it for me and let me know how you succeed (it
has only had rudimentary testing).
There are still plenty of things to do to it - I have identified some on
the Things to Do section on Craig's wiki page, but when you spot other
improvements, please let me know, or raise an issue on the project
githubhttps://github.com/jones139/BrewMappage.   Any offers of help
on the styling side (icons, css etc.
appreciated).

I have also included a
linkhttp://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/tagQueries.htmlto some
analysis of things that I think may be breweries, but are not
tagged according to the scheme on the wiki page - if you have some local
knowledge of any of them, please add the relevant tags to them, which will
make them disappear from the 'tagQueries' list and show up on the map.  The
data updates every 10 minutes, but you need to refresh your browser window
to see any changes.

Regards


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

Hi Jonathan,

 I don't claim to be an osm2pgsql expert, but I think that's a
 misunderstanding of the situation. I think *any* new tag added to osm.xml
 results in an extra column, whether it has a colon or not.

You are right, the colons are not significant.  What I should have said is
that I do not like inventing new keys when they are not necessary because
they end up needing to be an extra column in the database - adding a colon
to an existing key may appear to be some sort of lower level in a
hierarchy, but as far as I can tell it is just creating a new key that
looks similar to the existing one - at least in the osm2pgsql schema.

In this specific case we have two options:
 - craft = brewery
 - craft = cider
 - craft = brewery; cider etc. etc...

or
 - craft:brewery = true
 - craft:cider = true

both achieve the same thing, but the first uses only a single, pre-existing
key, whereas the second creates two new ones.
If the second version ended up storing boolean values, I could see an
argument for it because it could reduce storage space, but everything is
just text, so there is not much in it.



 Generally you shouldn't consider any performance implications when
 creating a tag, because you don't know what will change in the next version
 of the code. The easy-for-mappers-but-maybe-a-**bit-computationally-intensive
 scheme you're trying to avoid may become a non-issue with a few lines of
 code changed. Equally the opposite may happen.

 Not too sure about that - I don't think either of the options is
significantly harder for mappers!


 For information, I'm assured that extra columns produce next to no
 performance degradation anyway since osm2pgsql started using hstore.

I am thinking about scrapping my hstore enabled database because things
seem to have got a lot slower since I added it, but might do a bit more
testing first.

It is as much about neatness as performance - with a simple 'craft=' schema
I can have a single sql query that extracts everything with a craft= tag,
then just filter on the value of craft to decide how to render it.   With
craft, craft:brewery, craft:cider etc., they will each need a  different
bit of sql.

All quite possible, just the simpler one seems neater to me.

Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

 It might be better to use building=mill/press/barn? As I think the

building=* key is loosely supposed to represent the design of the
 building rather than what people do inside it.

 We still need a multi *use* convention though. Taking craft=*, the
 documented style would see us use semi-colon separation, craft=cider;
 perry, but perhaps we could use a  more 'modern' style like
 craft:cider=yes; craft:perry=yes?

 I know that tagging for the renderer is frowned upon, but I really do not
like all these colons in key names, because (as far as I know) that means
having an extra column in the database produced by osm2pgsql for
renderingand every time I want to add an extra column it means an
entire re-import of the databse.

Therefore I would be much keener on craft = [beer|cider|perry] with
whatever separator you  would like between them than craft:cider=yes etc.

The other thing that I thought of is that 'craft' sounds like a sensible
tag for microbreweries, but maybe not for a bit industrial one - maybe use
craft= for microbreweries and industry= for bigger ones, then we can render
them differently?

If someone puts up a wiki page with the proposed tagging scheme, I will set
up a renderer for it.


Graham.




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[Graham Jones]

Brian,
Sounds like a good challange.   Main issue is that we will need to decide
how to tag breweries - mostly 'landuse=industrial' or 'building=yes' at the
moment, but I can not find anything specific to a brewery?

First go at a map based on looking for 'brewery' in the name is here:
http://maps3.org.uk/tiles/brewery.html.   It is pleasing to see that
Cameron's Brewery in the bright centre of the universe shows up prominently
without any fiddling by me!
Any suggestions on how to distinguish real breweries from 'Old Brewery
Appartments' would be appreciated!

Note also that  this map only shows things tagged as areas, not nodes -
there seems to be a table missing from my database - not sure why, but will
fix later!

Regards


Graham.

On 30 October 2011 15:15, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi everyone

 Having just been at the CAMRA Birmingham Beer Festival and seen the huge
 number of breweries from across the UK  Got me thinking -  is there any
 appetite for a project similar to the baseball project
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Big_baseball_project_2011 in getting
 all the breweries mapped and rendered  maybe as OpenBrewMap. Surveying
 could be fun!

 Regards

 Brian

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] [Semi-OT] affordable hosting for own tileserver?

[Graham Jones]

Sounds like Colin has done better than me

I use CloudNext web hosting (http://cloudnext.co.uk).   They offer a
service with 'unlimited' storage and bandwidth, which sounded good for
tiles and has the advantage of allowing python scripting as well as php and
perl, so I can run tilecahce on it without any trouble.   I think it costs
more like £70 odd per year for the 'unlimited' version.

I started off with one of their virtual servers hoping to use it for
rendering, but the affordable version only came with 20GB storage (which
has to include the operating system), so it was easy to fill it up.  Also
it did not have enough memory to compile Mapnik2, which I wanted to use
because I like the Carto styling language, which needs Mapnik2.

I am very much under-using my 'unlimited' hosting package, so if anyone is
interested in developing their own UK web maps, I am happy to host them for
them - just let me know.

Regards


Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging Historic Features

[Graham Jones]

 http://taginfo.openstreetmap.**org/keys/historic%**3Acivilization#valueshttp://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/historic%3Acivilization#values

 It doesn't have a specific count for the UK but it does have a map tag
 (which seems to indicate very few isolated uses in the UK).

 Thank you! - I managed to find them, but hoped to do a bit more searching
on my own database in case someone else had started a scheme that I could
not find documented.

As yet another aside, I thought the convention in OSM was to use English,
but I always think of Civilization being an American spelling...I will
definitely need to make a tool to add these tags or I will mis-spell it a
lot!

Regards


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging Historic Features

[Graham Jones]

I knew it was debatable - should have kept quiet!

from my phone

On 27 Oct 2011 13:30, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote:

On 27/10/2011 10:57, Graham Jones wrote:
I always think of Civilization being an American spell...
Oh, that old chestnut! No, not at all. For verbs in -ize/-ise (and hence
derived nouns in -ization/-isation), -z- has long been the preferred
spelling for such scholarly British publishers as the Oxford University
Press - including in the great Oxford English Dictionary (published from
1888 onwards).

-- 
Steve



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
htt...
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] Tagging Historic Features

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
I am interested in creating maps of historical features (e.g all roman
remains, medieval things, World War 2 things etc.).
At the moment we have quite a lot of things tagged with 'historic=*' which I
can use to make a general 'Historical Britain' map (e.g. http://maps3.org.uk),
but I do not think that things are generally tagged with the historical
period etc, which we would need to produce more specific historical maps
(note that I am not on about creating a map of the uk in 1800 etc, but
showing which historical features are still visible today).

I have been trying to think of how to tag these historical things to make
this possible, and found a wiki page that I was not aware of before:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:historic:civilization.   This seems
to propose a hierarchy of tags:
   historic:civilisation = 'roman'
historic:period=''
  historic:era=''

As far as I can tell these are hardly used in the uk (unfortunately my
database does not include them so I will have to re-import it...).

Although this scheme looks a bit complicated, I could see it working, but we
would have to define an appropriate set of 'civilisation' and 'period'
values etc. that are suitable for the UK (the examples on the wiki would not
span the range from prehistoric to cold war that I would like to see).

I will sit down for a while and try to think up something suitable, but
wondered if anyone had any better ideas - the above scheme seems little
used, so we could come up with something different if necessary.

Any suggestions would be appreciated - once we have an idea of what the
values should be there will only be the minor issue of updating the existing
historic features to include the date/period and I will be able to make a
multi layered historic map of the UK!

Regards


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] building zones

[Graham Jones]

Err..sorry to be dumb, but I have read this three times and still have no
idea what this is about.
What problem are you trying to solve?
What is a Building Zone?
Is this something to do with telling the renderer what order to draw things?


Graham.


-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Customised Maps (was OSM Analysis New Data and bot)

[Graham Jones]

Hi Adam,
The kothic system that Richard pointed you to is well worth a look - it
renders very pretty maps.  I think it uses a styling language similar to the
'carto' one I talked about.  I haven't looked at how you actually customise
it without setting up your own server yet though.

If you want to have a look at mapnik and OSM, the instructions on the OSM
wiki are a good place to start
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnikhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik#Authentication_failed).


The biggest difference between the mapnik tutorial that you used is that
yours used data from a 'shape file'.   The OSM style uses a postgresql
database to hold the main OSM data, and a number of shape files for
coastlines, built up areas etc.

I find the postgresql bit the tricky bit - follow the instructions on
Mapnik/PostGIS to set that up (linked from the Mapnik page).

Have fun!

Graham.

On 16 June 2011 21:09, Adam Hoyle adam.li...@dotankstudios.com wrote:

 Hey Graham,

 All very helpful information, thank you very very much :-)

 I just managed to figure out where I got to. I basically followed the
 tutorial here:
 http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/GettingStarted

 to save you clicking it, I haven't even got the osm stylesheet yet, but I
 have rendered a rather sweet view of the entire world. Not too shabby, and
 not exactly advanced, but I was quite happy.

 So any pointers for the biggest learning curve bit? ;-)

 Maybe I should wait for the thang Richard mentioned, although I'd love to
 get something at a more local level than the entire world rendered in
 Mapnik, just so I can tick that off my to-do list :-)

 ttfn,

 Adam

 On 15 Jun 2011, at 22:41, Graham Jones wrote:

 Hi Adam,
 No problem - these lists have been a bit busy over the last few days

 If you have got mapnik running and generating maps using the 'standard' osm
 stylesheet, you have got over the biggest learning curve.You will
 probably have noticed that the 'standard' osm stylesheet is very complicated
 - this is because it renders lots of different information differently at
 different zoom levels.

 If you want to add contours, it is possible to do that by importing the
 contours into your postgresql database, and modifying the standard osm style
 file to plot them.   I have a crude example of this at
 http://code.google.com/p/ntmisc/source/browse/#svn%2Fkefalonia_map - all
 my changes compared to the standard osm style file are in the 'inc'
 directory - I added a file that defines the style for the contour line
 drawing, and also changed some other files to include the new one - search
 the osm wiki for contours to see how to get contours into your postgresql
 database.   I did a little write up on how I did this (but not much detail I
 am afraid) at http://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/2011/04/kefalonia-map.html.

 To work on building up a mapnik stylesheet from scratch to get a better
 understanding of how it works, I would suggest starting on a simple
 transparent overlay to display over other map tiles.   I put together a few
 slides on my version of how to render map data with mapnik, which you can
 see at http://maps3.org.uk/doc/index.html.   If you look at
 http://maps3.org.uk/osm_opendata, the 'about' link has a bit of a
 descripton of how I produced the overlays for that map (another example of a
 very simple overlay).

 Both of the above examples use the standard xml stylesheet for mapnik.   I
 have been experimenting with a different way of producing the xml stylesheet
 using a different language and a pre-processor called 'carto'.   I did a
 little write up at
 http://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/2011/05/rendering-openstreetmap-data-using.htmlon
  where I have got to - It is much less complete than the full OSM
 stylesheet, and I think I need to learn some of the tricks used in that
 style to make the map look better, but I think it is simpler to see what it
 is doing, so I think I will stick with this for simple things.

 Hope that gets you started.   Let me know if you get stuck and I will see
 what I can do.   The mapnik-users mailing list is a good place to ask for
 help too.

 Regards


 Graham.

 On 15 June 2011 14:22, Adam Hoyle adam.li...@dotankstudios.com wrote:

 Hi Graham,

 Sorry, I got a bit over excited and subscribed to tons of OSM mailing
 lists and so totally missed your awesome reply :-(

 Sorry if I wasn't clear - I've successfully got Mapnik installed (did it a
 week or three ago and it was pretty painless as far as I recall), so am
 particularly after a sample config file to start from, particularly one with
 hill contours / gradients /
 whatever-they-are-really-called-outside-the-confines-of-my-head.

 Altho' having said that the package that Parveen Arora is putting together
 looks pretty awesome, so maybe I should hold out for that, even tho' it
 looks more targeted for Debian than OS X - I guess if push comes to shove I
 could install Debian in VMware, which I already have on my laptop.

 By the way townguide

Re: [Talk-GB] Customised Maps (was OSM Analysis New Data and bot)

[Graham Jones]

Hi Adam,
No problem - these lists have been a bit busy over the last few days

If you have got mapnik running and generating maps using the 'standard' osm
stylesheet, you have got over the biggest learning curve.You will
probably have noticed that the 'standard' osm stylesheet is very complicated
- this is because it renders lots of different information differently at
different zoom levels.

If you want to add contours, it is possible to do that by importing the
contours into your postgresql database, and modifying the standard osm style
file to plot them.   I have a crude example of this at
http://code.google.com/p/ntmisc/source/browse/#svn%2Fkefalonia_map - all my
changes compared to the standard osm style file are in the 'inc' directory -
I added a file that defines the style for the contour line drawing, and also
changed some other files to include the new one - search the osm wiki for
contours to see how to get contours into your postgresql database.   I did a
little write up on how I did this (but not much detail I am afraid) at
http://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/2011/04/kefalonia-map.html.

To work on building up a mapnik stylesheet from scratch to get a better
understanding of how it works, I would suggest starting on a simple
transparent overlay to display over other map tiles.   I put together a few
slides on my version of how to render map data with mapnik, which you can
see at http://maps3.org.uk/doc/index.html.   If you look at
http://maps3.org.uk/osm_opendata, the 'about' link has a bit of a descripton
of how I produced the overlays for that map (another example of a very
simple overlay).

Both of the above examples use the standard xml stylesheet for mapnik.   I
have been experimenting with a different way of producing the xml stylesheet
using a different language and a pre-processor called 'carto'.   I did a
little write up at
http://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/2011/05/rendering-openstreetmap-data-using.htmlon
where I have got to - It is much less complete than the full OSM
stylesheet, and I think I need to learn some of the tricks used in that
style to make the map look better, but I think it is simpler to see what it
is doing, so I think I will stick with this for simple things.

Hope that gets you started.   Let me know if you get stuck and I will see
what I can do.   The mapnik-users mailing list is a good place to ask for
help too.

Regards


Graham.

On 15 June 2011 14:22, Adam Hoyle adam.li...@dotankstudios.com wrote:

 Hi Graham,

 Sorry, I got a bit over excited and subscribed to tons of OSM mailing lists
 and so totally missed your awesome reply :-(

 Sorry if I wasn't clear - I've successfully got Mapnik installed (did it a
 week or three ago and it was pretty painless as far as I recall), so am
 particularly after a sample config file to start from, particularly one with
 hill contours / gradients /
 whatever-they-are-really-called-outside-the-confines-of-my-head.

 Altho' having said that the package that Parveen Arora is putting together
 looks pretty awesome, so maybe I should hold out for that, even tho' it
 looks more targeted for Debian than OS X - I guess if push comes to shove I
 could install Debian in VMware, which I already have on my laptop.

 By the way townguide looks rather amazing, so adding that to my (rather
 long) list of things to check out :-)

 Thanks for the offer of helping generate the configuration file, not sure
 of the best way to do that tho' as I want something I can start with and
 hack around with and iterate a lot until it's right. The primary thing I
 want is pubs and post boxes available when zoomed out (ideally the same zoom
 range as footpaths show up on), and if possible the mountain
 gradients/contours - I've seen a couple of maps in the wild that use
 these, but not sure how possible/straightforward it is for a Mapnik newbie
 such as myself.

 Cheers,

 Adam

 On 10 Jun 2011, at 10:46, Graham Jones wrote:

 Adam (changed the title of the thread to keep this one separate),
 The simplest way to do it is to make overlays that are transparent and you
 can view over another set of tiles.
 I have done a few before now - there is one visible at http://maps3.org.uk,
 which highlights historic things over the normal mapnik rendering.
 I still have the idea to set up something to make the learning curve
 easier, because I appreciate that setting up mapnik and all its dependencies
 is quite daunting - there is something on my osm user page about it
 (grahamjones).

 If you want to do it yourself, there are a few different sets of
 instructions - the osm wiki 'mapnik' page is a good start.  Note that linux
 is much easier than Windows (or at least there are better instructions!).

 I have a set of instructions that work for me at
 http://code.google.com/p/townguide/wiki/InstallationInstructions.   (there
 may be a minor issue with postgresql authentication that I need to fix).

 Parveen Aurora is currently working on making a simple package

Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis New Data and bot

[Graham Jones]

I think it would be simpler to do the reprojection before uploading it.
Only needs doing once that way.

Graham

from my phone

On 14 Jun 2011 04:11, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:

Richard wrote:



 The current Potlatch 2 codebase (not deployed yet) can pull vectors

 directly...

OK, I'm having a sleepless night and my mind was wandering. It passed
briefly over crowd-sourced uploading of the data if whoever sets up the
account can share login or create multiple logins (I have the May 2011 TM
Vectormap stuff here). But then I remembered what was involved with using
the original release and wondered if things have changed. I refer mainly to
reprojecting from OSGB to WGS84, which required manual tweaks to every .prj
file [1]. Would this need doing before upload, or is it something that is
now (but not deployed yet) automated within Potlatch 2?



Ed



[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OS_Shapefiles#Re-projecting_the_shape_file

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis New Data and bot

[Graham Jones]

I may be showing my ignorance, but isn't S3 a virtual server that you can
run code on etc?

I thought that all this needs is a web (or does it have to be ftp) server?

Cloudnext (http://cloudnext.co.uk) do a web hosting package with 'unlimited'
storage space and bandwidth for £70 pa (+vat I suspect), which does not
sound bad.   They seem to be ok - they host my http://maps3.org.uk server,
which seems reliable enough (but it does not get hammered).

The biggest issue I see is getting the data onto the server.   The nice
people at OS sent me all of VMD on DVDs, so I have them on my home server,
but ftp'ing them up to another server using my domestic broadband would take
forever..would need someone with a nice fast upload connection.

Regards


Graham.

On 13 June 2011 11:00, Craig Loftus craigloftus+...@googlemail.com wrote:

 On 13 June 2011 10:06, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
  I've got one National Grid square (SO) here and it's 202Mb zipped, 709Mb
  unzipped. There are 56 such squares. 56x709Mb is 39.7Gb _but_ I'd
 estimate
  that SO is one of the busiest squares, so we're maybe talking 20Gb or so
 for
  the whole of Britain. As for bandwidth - hooee, who knows how many times
  eager OSMers might want to download bits of it...

 Rather than caning my current server, I'm looking into using S3 (or
 another provider) so I can get an idea of just how download happy
 users will be. Then I can figure out what the cheapest solution will
 be.

 If anyone knows about using cloud-hosting as a mirror, particularly if
 you think it is a terrible idea, please speak up now.

 Craig

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Contributor Terms vs OS OpenData Licence

[Graham Jones]

I have also made some contributions based on OS OpenData and have just
accepted the new CTs.

I am disappointed that it got to the point that we had to accept or decline
the new terms before the issue over the OS data has been settled, but
reasoned that the vast majority of my contributions have been from surveys
and I have put a source tag everywhere that I have used OS data.

Declining the new terms would have been silly because it would have meant my
non-OS based contributions being removed, and I have nothing against the new
licence or contributor terms.
If someone decides that OS data is not appropriate they can identify them
and remove them.

That said I think we would be stupid as an organisation to change our
license to one that is not compatible with OS data given that the UK
government has released it - I am just not that interested in licences!

Graham.


On 19 April 2011 17:29, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:

 Being cast as the most guilty party threatening OSM by having the
 greatest number of  OS data edits and signing the CTs - I thought I'd
 contribute to make it clear where I stand. I'm absolutely with Peter Miller
 on this. I trust the OSMF implicitly to get it right which is why I signed
 the CTs. Why make the OS data available to us if we can't use it?  I'm not
 worried in the slightest by this - I'm too busy mapping. All I see these
 discussions doing is generating heat but no light

 Regards

 brian

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Roadside cycle-lanes vs. off-road cycle-paths

[Graham Jones]

Phil,
Well, I am sure that there are tags to go on the main highway way to show
its cycleability - things like cycle=lane or cycle=track, to show a road
with a separate cycle track running next to it rather than just a lane
painted on the road,but I have just had a look on the Wiki and can't find it
- you might have more success!

Graham.

On 15 April 2011 19:21, Phil Endecott spam_from_os...@chezphil.org wrote:

 Dear Experts,

 Can anyone propose a test that I can use to distinguish between roadside
 cycle-lanes and off-road cycle paths?

 This is part of my effort to superimpose OSM path info onto OS District
 Map.  I would like to show off-road cycle paths that would typically be
 shown on a paper OS map, perhaps as a bridleway, and not roadside paths that
 would not be shown separately from the road itself.

 One option is to look only for the footpath/bridleway tags, but that does
 seem to miss some things.

 Any suggestions?


 Thanks,  Phil.




 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] Fwd: [OSM-dev] OpenStreetMap Accepted into Google's Summer of Code

[Graham Jones]

For those that do not subscribe to the international lists, OSM has been
accepted into this years Google Summer of Code programme.

If anyone can think of extra project ideas,  please add them to the wiki
page below.
We are also looking for mentors to guide students through their projects if
anyone is interested.
Please contact Ian Dees or I if you would like any additional information.

Graham

from my phone

-- Forwarded message --
From: Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com
Date: 19 Mar 2011 22:56
Subject: [OSM-dev] OpenStreetMap Accepted into Googleapos;s Summer of Code
To: OSM Talk t...@openstreetmap.org,
talk-us@openstreetmap.orgOpenstreetmap 
talk...@openstreetmap.org, dev d...@openstreetmap.org,
OpenStreetMap-Josm MailConf josm-...@openstreetmap.org

Hi all,

I wanted to let everyone know that OSM was accepted as an organization into
Google's Summer of Code.

You can participate by being a mentor, submitting a project idea, or being a
student.

Please e-mail me if you have any questions. If you have some ideas, please
drop them on the wiki page:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GSoC_Project_Ideas_2011

Thanks!
Ian

___
dev mailing list
d...@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] inferred single-carriageway NSL?

[Graham Jones]

A few months ago there was a proposal to define defaults for given areas so
you only tag exceptions.  That sounded very sensible to me, but I do not
know what happened to it.

Graham

from my phone

On 16 Mar 2011 18:59, Richard Bullock rb...@cantab.net wrote:


 In summary, this little tag is much less simple than it may appear at
 first
  glance! I am very in...
 Being pedantic back can anyone demonstrate the existence of a 60 mph sign
 on
 a single carriageway road?


I can certainly do that. I believe this one was places to remind drivers
that, despite having four lanes, it's still a single carriageway and =
60mph max

http://tinyurl.com/6x5u4la

In this case, it's probably technically national, but specifically signed
at 60.

I know of a couple of examples of cases on a dual-carriageway where it's
specifically signed 70mph AND most definitely not the national speed limit.

http://tinyurl.com/66pucm7

The reason it's not the national speed limit, is because of the way that the
legal orders that created this stretch of road were drawn up. In this
particular example, this type of road has no national speed limit - and a
white sign with black diagonal line would mean genuinely derestricted. (It's
a non-motorway special-road in case you're asking - and special-roads only
have a national speed limit if they are also motorways - hence a specific
70mph speed limit order had to be drawn up).

Back to the point in question, however;

Do we *really* need to be tagging national speed limits on individual ways?
E.g. the vast majority of roads ought to be one of;
*residential roads subject to 30mph
*rural roads subject to NSL

(I realise a lot of councils have been cutting lots of roads from NSL - 50
in recent years, but I'm sure NSLs outnumber 50s on the whole)

Perhaps we could tag the ones that differ from the above - and let
post-processors add national defaults as necessary?

Taken to its extreme, are we going to bother adding surface=paved to every
motorway, motorcar=yes to every road?


___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http...
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] OS and OSM

[Graham Jones]

Ah, sorry - I misunderstood your question.
I didn't bother rendering the whole country with these because everyone said
how awful and useless Merridian2 was, so I just wanted to see how it
compared to other things.

I think Nick has just published a VectorMap District rendering.
If you would like me to render Merridan2 in the style I showed in the blog
post, I could do it pretty easily and make it available as a set of
slippy-map tiles?

Regards


Graham.

On 11 March 2011 22:29, Steve Doerr steve.do...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

 On 11/03/2011 19:06, Graham Jones wrote:

 Steve,
 I didn't render a whole map using Meridian2, but made a couple of examples
 to satisfy my curiosity here:
 http://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/2010/09/mapnik-and-osopendata.html.

 They give a bit of a feel for what the data looks like.


 Thanks, Graham. I think I had seen that when it was first publicized. But
 somehow there's no substitute for being able, in the middle of an editing
 session, to  say 'I wonder what this area/road/river/lake looks like in
 Meridian 2' and switch to that layer to see whether it adds any value. I
 don't want to belittle the work of people who carried out 'proof of concept'
 work like this when OpenData was first published, but it seems like either
 the data was deemed to be of no use or there wasn't the impetus to turn
 prototypes into an operational tool with national coverage.


 --
 Steve


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] OS VectorMap District with LandForm Panorama contours overlay

[Graham Jones]

Nick,
I think that looks excellent - well done!  I look forward to seeing  how you
did it!

Graham.

On 12 March 2011 12:23, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:

 Hi,

 I've managed to produce a slippy VectorMap District map with LandForm
 Panorama contours overlay at

 http://www.free-map.org.uk/expts/vmdlfp200/

 Only covers a 20km x 100km section of southern England at the moment.

 Next stage will be to overlay OSM rights of way on the map.

 Will write up a wiki page on the method used once it's complete.

 Nick

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Viability of huge shapefile of LandForm Panorama contours in Mapnik?

[Graham Jones]

Nick,
This has been on my list of things to do for a while too, but like many of
my project ideas, it didn't get that far!
I do not have any experience of the OS contour files - I coudn't work out
how to convert the dxf's into something more useable by mapnik (I quite
fancied getting them into postgresql like I did with srtm data).  I think
the OS height data comes as a DEM as well as a DXF so it should be possible
to process it like SRTM?

I did have a similar issue with rendering the Vector Map District data
though, which comes as lots of shapefiles.  I tried it two different ways:

   1. Render each shapefile individually using mapnik, by writing a python
   script to add a different mapnik layer for each shapefile - this worked fine
   for a single grid square (e.g. NZ), but it keeled over when I tried to do it
   for the whole UK - ran out of memory I think.
   2. Pull the shapefiles into a postgresql database and render it just like
   OSM data - lines and points worked fine, but I had trouble with polygons -
   lots of errors about invalid geometry.  This was a shame because the big
   thing I like about VMD is the area data.   It looked as though the problem
   was areas intersecting themselves, but I never worked out how to fix it - I
   suspect that it may be rounding errors and I should have used the shp2pgsql
   option to just use integers, but I think I must have got bored before I
   tried re-importing the entire database again.

I made some notes as I went along, which you should be able to see
herehttp://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/search/label/OrdnanceSurvey.
 The scripts I wrote and mapnik stylesheets are in a public archive, which
should be referenced in my notes.

I suspect that you will have a similar problem with the contour shapefiles
as I had with the VMD ones, so I would be inclined to go for the database
option, or at least treat that as a contingency plan.

I would like to see this idea working, so if you would like any help, please
let me know.

Regards


Graham.

On 6 March 2011 09:11, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote:

 Hi,

 Sometime, perhaps over Easter, I'd like to do something I've been meaning
 to do for a while, and that is create pseudo-Landranger maps by combining
 OS Vector Map District, contours from OS Landform Panorama, and OSM
 footpaths.

 However, to do this I need to transform the contour data from DXF into
 something more usable, e.g. shapefile. Apparently gdal can now do this.
 What I'm a little concerned about, though, is the viability of creating one
 huge shapefile containing all the contours for the UK, which would be
 necessary to prevent the Mapnik XML file getting messy and having huge
 numbers of small shapefile layers. As an alternative I could create separate
 shapefiles for say, Wales, S England, N England and Scotland.
 Is this likely to be feasible.

 Thanks,
 Nick

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Mapnik rendering of of aeroway=taxiway

[Graham Jones]

I dont really know, but I think the usual advice is to raise a trac ticket,
which you have done.

I am trying to think of how to resolve this.  Maybe require area=yes to have
it filled in?

Graham

from my phone

On 24 Feb 2011 17:12, James Davis jam...@jml.net wrote:

How do I go about asking for changes in rendering to be reverted?

http://trac.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25298

I've left some comments, is that all I need do?

Seems to have diverted quite widely from the documented use of this tag
where it's clearly for ways only - and I presume that existing circular ways
were intended to be just that and not areas. Had quite a few local airfields
get rendered as greyblobs because their perimeter taxi ways :(

James
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] 'Easy' Speciality Map Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Hi All,
Quite a bit of the feedback I have had on this suggestion has pointed
towards the documentation for the map rendering tools being very complicated
and hard to follow.
I think there are quite a few good step-by-step tutorials on setting up the
tools, but I think we may be lacking a 'stand back' overview of how it all
fits together and the basic concepts.

I have had a go at this overview in a presentation format (I think this is
easier to follow than a wiki page, but will get this information into the
OSM wiki somehow once people have commented on it).

You should be able to see 'Draft A' of the presentation at
http://maps3.org.uk/doc/Mapnik_OSM_Presentation.pdf.

I would welcome any comments, in particular on the level I have pitched it -
I am concious that many that work with computers will consider terms like
XML and SQL obvious, but thought it worth a slide on each.   I think that
slide 7 (the picture showing the relationship between the tools and the
configuration files) is particularly important - please let me know if I
have missed something!

I am concious that there are more things that could be included - I think
that map projections and OpenLayers are two things that could use a basic
introduction too - I would welcome your thoughts.


Regards


Graham.

On 21 February 2011 19:38, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Folks,
 We have had a few interesting discussions both on and off this list about
 some speciality map overlays that I had put together to entertain myself
 (things like canals, historical sites, railways, power stations etc.) - the
 sort of things that I have on http://maps.webhop.net.  I have started
 moving these to a commercial web host at http://maps3.org.uk, which will
 be faster.

 A few people have commented that they would like to be able to do this sort
 of thing to display the data they are most interested in, but setting up all
 of the databases and rendering programs is too complicated.

 I have been giving this some thought, and would like to develop a
 speciality map rendering system to allow less technically minded people to
 create their own map overlays to display over the standard OSM map rendering
 (ie without having to set up your own postgresql database, import OSM data,
 keep it up to date etc...) - all you will need to do is create the mapnik
 stylesheet to tell the renderer what do display and how to display it (not
 that that is easy!).

 I envisage having a shared web server to share these map overlays, and
 provide customised editing facilities (potlatch2 tailored to the particular
 things being displayed on the map).
 It would also allow someone to create their own mapnik style sheet to show
 a particular set of data, and add it to the map.

 The idea would be that we would use a commercial web hosting service to
 keep the cost down, and a separate computer to do the map rendering and
 upload the map tiles to the server (I will use my old laptop for now, which
 should cope unless things get very popular...but might start an appeal for a
 community owned virtual server to do it if the load gets too high!).

 I have put some thoughts on what this system would look like on my OSM user
 page (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Grahamjones#Speciality_Maps
 ).

 My question is whether many people would find this useful?   Or has someone
 already done it but I have not found it?

 If it is the sort of thing people are interested in I will look at getting
 it set up - If anyone would like to help, that would be great!

 (note that I have sent this to the GB list because my hardware is not up to
 dealing with the whole world - there is no reason in principle why this
 should not be international).

 Regards


 Graham.

 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] 'Easy' Speciality Map Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Thanks Peter - It will be interesting to see what you come up with - sounds
very similar to what I was thinking of!

Graham

On 23 February 2011 17:22, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com wrote:

 Just to let you know that at ITO we are now very close to releasing a set
 of specialist renderings which might meet your requirements. These views
 will include:
 *Power lines, generators, substations etc (lines colour-coded by voltage if
 available)
 *Road speed limits (colour coded by speed limit if available)
 *Railways (colour coded by line type - mainline, subway, tram, light rail,
 preserved, abandoned etc)
 *Railway track width (1, 2 or multiple is available)
 *School boundaries
 *Car parks
 * and more that may be suggested

 ITO will manage all the data hosting, scripts and tile rendering. The
 service will be available globally and the data will be updated daily.

 Initially we will define the scripts to avoid to much rendering work for
 our servers.  Our intention is to then release the 'scripting' to allow
 people to create and publish their own scripts.



 More details soon!



 Regards,



 Peter



 On 22 February 2011 13:56, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:

 Graham,


 One thing you could usefully document – an in an easy-to-read, visual,
 engaging way rather than dense jargon-filled wiki pages – and publicise is
 how to use built-in support in OpenLayers. For example, it’s not all that
 hard to download some interesting data via XAPI (if it were a bit more
 reliable) and display it as a layer in an OpenLayers. A little bit of code
 can also provide a popup bubble containing the tags associated with the
 feature.



 This is a good deal easier than rendering a new set of map tiles.



 Here are a couple of examples:

 http://tomchance.dev.openstreetmap.org/trees.html

 http://tomchance.dev.openstreetmap.org/emptyshops.html


 If the data set isn't too large, this would work fine for maps of canals
 and locks as well.


 You can use CloudMade's style editor to create a suitable set of map
 tiles, too, if the default OpenStreetMap/OpenCycleMap/etc. tiles don't suit
 your needs.



 Tom


 On 22 February 2011 13:03, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Andy,
 I will certainly have a look at that, thank you - I have not seen that
 service.

 I am hoping to make this more than just a hosting service though.  This
 has been reinforced by a couple of off-list converstations I have had where
 there is a good chunk of making it easy for people to develop their own
 styles (without the overhead of setting up a rendering tool-chain), and most
 importantly providing straightforward documentation on how to do it.

 Maybe I should think a bit more about documentation first rather than
 concentrating so much on code!

 Graham.

 On 22 February 2011 10:19, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I have put some thoughts on what this system would look like on my OSM
 user
  page (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Grahamjones#Speciality_Maps).
  My question is whether many people would find this useful?   Or has
 someone
  already done it but I have not found it?

 The guys over at wikimedia do this with their toolserver (amongst
 other things) - producing both custom background layers and custom
 overlays. For example,


 http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?lat=52.49436lon=13.28916zoom=12layers=F0FTF0FFFB000T

 ... is a black and white mapnik, with hillshading and power
 distribution overlays. Documentation is a bit sparse but there's some
 at

 https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/OpenStreetMap

 Anyone can develop a map style and ask to get it rendered. As part of
 the toolserver project many of the tools needed for this kind of thing
 were developed / used - e.g. hstore in osm2pgsql. You should certainly
 dig into what they are doing, what kind of hardware they are using and
 so on.

 Cheers,
 Andy




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 http://tom.acrewoods.net   http://twitter.com/tom_chance

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb





-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] 'Easy' Speciality Map Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Hi Andy,
I will certainly have a look at that, thank you - I have not seen that
service.

I am hoping to make this more than just a hosting service though.  This has
been reinforced by a couple of off-list converstations I have had where
there is a good chunk of making it easy for people to develop their own
styles (without the overhead of setting up a rendering tool-chain), and most
importantly providing straightforward documentation on how to do it.

Maybe I should think a bit more about documentation first rather than
concentrating so much on code!

Graham.

On 22 February 2011 10:19, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I have put some thoughts on what this system would look like on my OSM
 user
  page (
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Grahamjones#Speciality_Maps).
  My question is whether many people would find this useful?   Or has
 someone
  already done it but I have not found it?

 The guys over at wikimedia do this with their toolserver (amongst
 other things) - producing both custom background layers and custom
 overlays. For example,


 http://toolserver.org/~osm/styles/?lat=52.49436lon=13.28916zoom=12layers=F0FTF0FFFB000T

 ... is a black and white mapnik, with hillshading and power
 distribution overlays. Documentation is a bit sparse but there's some
 at

 https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/OpenStreetMap

 Anyone can develop a map style and ask to get it rendered. As part of
 the toolserver project many of the tools needed for this kind of thing
 were developed / used - e.g. hstore in osm2pgsql. You should certainly
 dig into what they are doing, what kind of hardware they are using and
 so on.

 Cheers,
 Andy




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] 'Easy' Speciality Map Rendering

[Graham Jones]

Hi Folks,
We have had a few interesting discussions both on and off this list about
some speciality map overlays that I had put together to entertain myself
(things like canals, historical sites, railways, power stations etc.) - the
sort of things that I have on http://maps.webhop.net.  I have started moving
these to a commercial web host at http://maps3.org.uk, which will be faster.

A few people have commented that they would like to be able to do this sort
of thing to display the data they are most interested in, but setting up all
of the databases and rendering programs is too complicated.

I have been giving this some thought, and would like to develop a speciality
map rendering system to allow less technically minded people to create their
own map overlays to display over the standard OSM map rendering (ie without
having to set up your own postgresql database, import OSM data, keep it up
to date etc...) - all you will need to do is create the mapnik stylesheet to
tell the renderer what do display and how to display it (not that that is
easy!).

I envisage having a shared web server to share these map overlays, and
provide customised editing facilities (potlatch2 tailored to the particular
things being displayed on the map).
It would also allow someone to create their own mapnik style sheet to show a
particular set of data, and add it to the map.

The idea would be that we would use a commercial web hosting service to keep
the cost down, and a separate computer to do the map rendering and upload
the map tiles to the server (I will use my old laptop for now, which should
cope unless things get very popular...but might start an appeal for a
community owned virtual server to do it if the load gets too high!).

I have put some thoughts on what this system would look like on my OSM user
page (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Grahamjones#Speciality_Maps).

My question is whether many people would find this useful?   Or has someone
already done it but I have not found it?

If it is the sort of thing people are interested in I will look at getting
it set up - If anyone would like to help, that would be great!

(note that I have sent this to the GB list because my hardware is not up to
dealing with the whole world - there is no reason in principle why this
should not be international).

Regards


Graham.

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Hi Folks,

Thanks to Chris for reminding me, I have updated my canals / waterways map -
it should now be up to date as of the early hours of this morning (
http://maps.webhop.net/canals).

It looks like good progress from the last update - much more like a network
now, but there are still some gaps!

The things I noticed from my part of the country is that the River Tyne is
not rendered - must not have a 'boat=yes' tag - does anyone know how far up
the river you can get a boat to add this?
Conversely I am not convinced that the river Wear upstream of Durham is
navigable - I thought it got pretty shallow at Shincliffe?   Also there is
the problem of a Weir, so maybe there are only bits of it downstream that
are navigable too?

This is still running on the computer in my living room so will seem slow
because of my internet connection, but I am working on getting minutely
updating working on a little virtual server, which will seem better from the
outside world - I will be looking for suggestions for other visualisations
to include once I have got that working (adding more is very easy once it is
working), so please think of anything else you would like to see.

Graham.

On 19 January 2011 21:28, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you all for your comments.

 Dealing with 'disused' was nice and easy - I have deleted disused locks
 altogether and changed disused canals to a fainter, dotted line (see just
 north of Carnforth near Lancaster).  I am not sure I have ever seen a
 'disused' canal - does this mean a ditch, or just an overgrown, impassable
 canal?

 I have also prevented locks being shown until you zoom in to zoom level 10.
  Updated version now rendering at http://maps.webhop.net/canals, using the
 mapnik style http://maps.webhop.net/canals/canal2.xml..

 Adding navigable rivers is a good idea, but will take more doing because my
 database does not include the 'boat=' tag - I will have to re-import the
 whole uk, which takes a few hours...

 Are there any other waterway specific tags that should be included?

 What points of interest should a waterways map highlight - I only have
 locks at the moment, because I remember these being the interesting part of
 canal boating, but I can add other things - especially if anyone would like
 to draw an icon for it - otherwise we will end up with another one of my
 dodgy drawings!

 Graham.



 On 19 January 2011 19:24, Chris Moss mosch...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Thanks Graham and Malcolm,

 Certainly I can see for the first time where the gaps are in the waterway
 coverage and it encourages me to explore mapnik and see how everything
 works.

 Chris


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Richard,
A direct link to an editor would be really neat...Do you know how to do it?
I suppose I need to use javascript to detect that you have clicked on the
'edit' link, then update the link to be the map origin?
Or is there an easy way - not sure how the 'Permalink' thing works - I'll
dig through the OpenLayers code to look for it!

Graham.

On 20 January 2011 10:04, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:


 Graham Jones wrote:
  I just added navigable rivers and it looks a bit more like a network now.
  There are still a few odd gaps to investigate though.

 That's putting it mildly. :)

 I knew our waterway coverage was erratic but I hadn't realised it was
 _that_
 poor. Navigable rivers are particularly sporadic (very little of the Thames
 appears to be tagged as boat=yes). And as for the Macclesfield Canal's new
 western extension, complete with cycleway...

 Lots to do!

 Graham - could you add a permalink that goes either to the equivalent view
 on osm.org, or straight to osm.org/edit?lat=...lon=...zoom=... ?

 cheers
 Richard


 --
 View this message in context:
 http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-Waterways-Map-was-invisible-tp5941444p5943138.html
 Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Tom, Richard,
I think I have got an alternative way of doing it - the Openlayers Permalink
control can take a 'base' parameter, which is the url base that it links to
(like http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit).

It is working on http://maps.webhop.net/canals now.

Not as pretty as the main OSM version or your openecomaps one though!

Graham.

On 20 January 2011 21:47, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:

 I used the OpenStreetMap homepage code for inspiration and wrote a stripped
 down version for this page:

 http://www.openecomaps.co.uk/map.php

 Basically you give the link an ID, get the relevant variables from
 OpenLayers and register events to update the link every time the map
 changes.

 http://www.openecomaps.co.uk/map.php(by the way that site isn't quite
 launched yet).

 Best wishes,
 Tom


 On 20 January 2011 21:26, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Richard,
 A direct link to an editor would be really neat...Do you know how to do
 it?
 I suppose I need to use javascript to detect that you have clicked on the
 'edit' link, then update the link to be the map origin?
 Or is there an easy way - not sure how the 'Permalink' thing works - I'll
 dig through the OpenLayers code to look for it!

 Graham.

 On 20 January 2011 10:04, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:


 Graham Jones wrote:
  I just added navigable rivers and it looks a bit more like a network
 now.
  There are still a few odd gaps to investigate though.

 That's putting it mildly. :)

 I knew our waterway coverage was erratic but I hadn't realised it was
 _that_
 poor. Navigable rivers are particularly sporadic (very little of the
 Thames
 appears to be tagged as boat=yes). And as for the Macclesfield Canal's
 new
 western extension, complete with cycleway...

 Lots to do!

 Graham - could you add a permalink that goes either to the equivalent
 view
 on osm.org, or straight to osm.org/edit?lat=...lon=...zoom=... ?

 cheers
 Richard


 --
 View this message in context:
 http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-Waterways-Map-was-invisible-tp5941444p5943138.html
 Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 http://tom.acrewoods.net   http://twitter.com/tom_chance




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Another cause of 'odd gaps' seems to be large rivers that have riverbanks
drawn (waterway=riverbank), but no way down the middle tagged as
waterway=river.

I am minded to keep the rendering unchanged on the grounds that the wiki
says it should have the waterway=river way (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Driverbank).
Does that sound reasonable, or should I render the riverbanks and not worry
about the river way?

Graham.

On 20 January 2011 10:04, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:


 Graham Jones wrote:
  I just added navigable rivers and it looks a bit more like a network now.
  There are still a few odd gaps to investigate though.

 That's putting it mildly. :)

 I knew our waterway coverage was erratic but I hadn't realised it was
 _that_
 poor. Navigable rivers are particularly sporadic (very little of the Thames
 appears to be tagged as boat=yes). And as for the Macclesfield Canal's new
 western extension, complete with cycleway...

 Lots to do!

 Graham - could you add a permalink that goes either to the equivalent view
 on osm.org, or straight to osm.org/edit?lat=...lon=...zoom=... ?

 cheers
 Richard


 --
 View this message in context:
 http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-Waterways-Map-was-invisible-tp5941444p5943138.html
 Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Thanks - I think it does show that I need to render to higher zoom levels -
it is nice to zoom in more before switching to Potlatch to reduce the load
time, but you lose my overlay tiles first.

I am importing the UK OSM database into a little virtual server at the
moment - once that is done I will move the canal map to that to make the
response quicker, and render down to zoom level 15 or so - I might make the
last few zoom levels render-on-demand to save disk space...

Graham.

On 20 January 2011 22:29, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:


 Graham Jones wrote:
  I think I have got an alternative way of doing it - the Openlayers
  Permalink control can take a 'base' parameter, which is the url
  base that it links to (like http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit).
  It is working on http://maps.webhop.net/canals now.

 That works brilliantly - I was able to spot that the Soar in north
 Leicester
 (my old stomping ground...) was missing a boat=yes and add it instantly.
 Thanks!

 cheers
 Richard


 --
 View this message in context:
 http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Re-Waterways-Map-was-invisible-tp5941444p5945684.html
 Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

Thank you all for your comments.

Dealing with 'disused' was nice and easy - I have deleted disused locks
altogether and changed disused canals to a fainter, dotted line (see just
north of Carnforth near Lancaster).  I am not sure I have ever seen a
'disused' canal - does this mean a ditch, or just an overgrown, impassable
canal?

I have also prevented locks being shown until you zoom in to zoom level 10.
 Updated version now rendering at http://maps.webhop.net/canals, using the
mapnik style http://maps.webhop.net/canals/canal2.xml..

Adding navigable rivers is a good idea, but will take more doing because my
database does not include the 'boat=' tag - I will have to re-import the
whole uk, which takes a few hours...

Are there any other waterway specific tags that should be included?

What points of interest should a waterways map highlight - I only have locks
at the moment, because I remember these being the interesting part of canal
boating, but I can add other things - especially if anyone would like to
draw an icon for it - otherwise we will end up with another one of my dodgy
drawings!

Graham.



On 19 January 2011 19:24, Chris Moss mosch...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Thanks Graham and Malcolm,

 Certainly I can see for the first time where the gaps are in the waterway
 coverage and it encourages me to explore mapnik and see how everything
 works.

 Chris


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Waterways Map (was invisible)

[Graham Jones]

I just added navigable rivers and it looks a bit more like a network now.
There are still a few odd gaps to investigate though.

Graham

from my phone

On 19 Jan 2011 22:28, Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu wrote:

The Grantham canal round here varies in quality from
Being in a pipe under the road for a big stretch
Looking like a normal canal but with all the locks missing/ damaged
Drained of water and full of weeds
Looking like a normal canal but full of algee and other stagnet strenches
Oh, and most paths/roads cross on the level with nothing more than a pipe
underneath.

The tow paths are generally navigatable by foot, and from plunger ( I think)
to the trent by bike in all weathers ( if you ignore the a46 Fosseway
crossing which is closed to allow the construction of a dual carridgeway)



 On 19 Jan 2011 21:29, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you all for yo...
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] invisible

[Graham Jones]

Tom,
I'll have a look at how it works tonight - It is getting the power source
from somewhere, but I don't remember parsing tags with colons in
themMaybe there is an old schema that I used.I think I set it up by
analysing the tags used in the databse rather than reading documentation -
oops!

I'll have a look at your version when the dev server starts responding again
- it timed out on me just now!

Regards

Graham.

On 18 January 2011 10:15, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote:

 Graham,

 Nice power map! Does it take account of the new, more powerful tagging
 schema?
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dgenerator

 Also, you might like this:
 http://tomchance.dev.openstreetmap.org/kml/power_uk.kml

 You can pop it into Google Maps or Harry's KML viewer, though the dev
 server is often totally overloaded so you might not be able to access it:
 http://funmap.co.uk/cloudmade-examples/kml-displayer.php

 Best wishes,
 Tom



 On 17 January 2011 23:21, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Chris,
 I don't know one about waterways, but for walking routes it is worth
 looking at Lonvia's hiking map (http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html) -
 I use this one.

 I have had a bit of a go at learning how to create overlays for other
 things - I started with supermarkets (http://maps.webhop.net/supermarkets),
 and power stations (http://maps.webhop.net/power).   There is another one
 (http://maps.webhop.net/topo/) that combines a few overlays and some
 contours.   It would be very easy to convert these to generate waterways
 overlays if you want to - I think they have an 'about' page.

 Note that these are served off my computer at home, so they load rather
 slowly - the upload speed on my broadband connection is not very good!

 For point data rather than images, it might be worth doing it a different
 way and using javascript to plot the points, but these simple images seem to
 work - they just take up a lot of disk space if you render them to high zoom
 levels.

 Let me know if you need any help.

 Graham.

 On 17 January 2011 23:05, Chris Moss mosch...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I'm interested in the GB waterways and it seems there's quite a bit of
 work done but it's totally invisible. Is anyone working on a layer like the
 cycle map, which leaps out from the overlays as the only minority interest
 yet developed?

 It's not the only layer I'd like to see. What about walking paths,
 railways, contours,  points of interest, postcode areas, administrative
 boundaries, constituencies, bus routes, etc., etc.

 Shouldn't maps allow you to concentrate on whatever you're interested in?
 Can someone please explain to me how or if this can be done with
 openstreetmap?

 Chris

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




 --
 http://tom.acrewoods.net   http://twitter.com/tom_chance




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] invisible

[Graham Jones]

Henry,
I think you are describing what my examples do - for example the map at
http://maps.webhop.net/topo uses a simple base map and the OpenLayers
javascript program running in the web browser draws the selectable overlays
on top of it - the overlays are PNG images with a transparent background.
Or maybe you meant some sort of clever bitmap with layers defined within it?

Whether it is efficient or not depends on what you are trying to do with the
overlays - for single points (e.g. the power stations themselves on my map)
holding bitmaps is much less efficient than storing the locations of each
power station - you could have OpenLayers take the locations of the points
and plot them.

Using transparent overlays is easy - you do not need to do any real time
processing - just get an image from a server and dispaly it.   Going for
something cleverer like vector rendering needs a database to give you the
correct data, then the javascript in the web browser needs to process it and
display it.   The difficulty is getting a quick enough database response to
give a nice user experience - this was the subject of another 2010 Google
Summer of Code Project (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2010/AcceptedProjects
).

Another alternative is that the mapnik renderer now has the capability to
include meta-data in the image tiles, but I haven't looked into this.

Regards


Graham.


On 18 January 2011 12:35, Henry Gomersall h...@cantab.net wrote:

 On Tue, 2011-01-18 at 11:02 +, Chris Saunter wrote:
  Pre-generating tiles for every concievable view of the OSM dataset is
  not a very efficient way of dealing with different people wanting to
  view different geographic areas in different styles.
 

 Why can this not be done (to a reasonable extent) with feature bitmap
 layers that can be quickly assembled client side?

 Cheers,

 Henry


 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] invisible

[Graham Jones]

Hi Folks,
To reply to the original question, I have had a *very* quick go at rendering
an overlay showing canal infrastructure over the standard OSM map rendering.
The higher zoom level tiles are still generating, but most of it is at
http://maps.webhop.net/canals.
It is running on my home server, which is a nice fast computer, but it is
behind a slow domestic broadband connection, so it will seem rather slow to
load from the outside world (sorry!).
It looks like the tile set is going to be about 1GB, so I can probably find
somewhere to host it faster if people are interested in it.

This is a very crude rendering - What it does is:

   - Extracts all data that is tagged waterway=something
   - Draws blue lines where waterway=canal
   - Draws blue dots where waterway=lock_gate or lock=yes

If anyone is interested in improving this, the 'about' page contains a link
to the mapnik xml file (canal1.xml) that I used to render it - please feel
free to suggest changes, draw little icons to replace my stylish blue dots
etc.
If you want to do something with it but are not familiar with mapnik, let me
know and I can explain how it works (as far as I know - I am no expert!).

Regards


Graham.



On 18 January 2011 16:06, Jason Cunningham jamicu...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I've also got an interest in waterways and found it was possible  to make
 them leap out using OSM Inspector  in the Geofabrik Tools website
 http://tools.geofabrik.de/

 This is the link I use to view water in South London

 http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=waterlon=-0.04362lat=51.38228zoom=11opacity=0.48overlays=bodies_of_water,bodies_of_water,broken_bow,vmap0_rivers,long_rivers,waterways_river,waterways_stream,waterways_drain,waterways_canal,waterways_riverbank,waterways_other,waterways_in_tunnels,waterways_on_bridges

 A bit long, but it works.
 Waterway data has the potential to be some of the most accurate in OSM
 due to the very high quality water line data made available in OS
 VectorMap_Data.

 Jason

 On 17 January 2011 23:05, Chris Moss mosch...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I'm interested in the GB waterways and it seems there's quite a bit of
 work done but it's totally invisible. Is anyone working on a layer like the
 cycle map, which leaps out from the overlays as the only minority interest
 yet developed?

 It's not the only layer I'd like to see. What about walking paths,
 railways, contours,  points of interest, postcode areas, administrative
 boundaries, constituencies, bus routes, etc., etc.

 Shouldn't maps allow you to concentrate on whatever you're interested in?
 Can someone please explain to me how or if this can be done with
 openstreetmap?

 Chris

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb



 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] invisible

[Graham Jones]

Chris,
I don't know one about waterways, but for walking routes it is worth looking
at Lonvia's hiking map (http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html) - I use this
one.

I have had a bit of a go at learning how to create overlays for other things
- I started with supermarkets (http://maps.webhop.net/supermarkets), and
power stations (http://maps.webhop.net/power).   There is another one (
http://maps.webhop.net/topo/) that combines a few overlays and some
contours.   It would be very easy to convert these to generate waterways
overlays if you want to - I think they have an 'about' page.

Note that these are served off my computer at home, so they load rather
slowly - the upload speed on my broadband connection is not very good!

For point data rather than images, it might be worth doing it a different
way and using javascript to plot the points, but these simple images seem to
work - they just take up a lot of disk space if you render them to high zoom
levels.

Let me know if you need any help.

Graham.

On 17 January 2011 23:05, Chris Moss mosch...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I'm interested in the GB waterways and it seems there's quite a bit of work
 done but it's totally invisible. Is anyone working on a layer like the cycle
 map, which leaps out from the overlays as the only minority interest yet
 developed?

 It's not the only layer I'd like to see. What about walking paths,
 railways, contours,  points of interest, postcode areas, administrative
 boundaries, constituencies, bus routes, etc., etc.

 Shouldn't maps allow you to concentrate on whatever you're interested in?
 Can someone please explain to me how or if this can be done with
 openstreetmap?

 Chris

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Running an OSM DB

[Graham Jones]

Mike,
This is probably a better question for the osm-dev list, but my opinion is:
Yes - osmosis is the recommended way of doing it.

But, I have struggled to get it going on my database, so the way I do it is
to just use daily updates and apply them with osm2pgsql.  I have a simple
script that looks to see if updates need applying, then downloads them -
copy of script attached.  I just run this as a daily cron job.

Graham.



On 31 December 2010 14:18, Mike osm-talk...@norgie.net wrote:

 Folks,

 I've setup a Postgres server and imported an OSM planet file using the
 plentyful guides available on the Interweb.

 What I've been less successful at finding is a guide to keeping the
 aforementioned database up to date.  I'm aware of the daily, hourly and
 minutely .osc files but I'm not 100% sure how to import these into the
 DB.  I can find plently of examples for using Osmonsis to import a planet
 file and indeed for using it to create many and varying diffs and the
 like but nothing identifying how one should apply a .osc file to a DB.

 Please could someone confirm that Osmosis is the correct way to go about
 this and that I'm not barking up the wrong tree and secondly what the
 correct syntax is for applying an osc file to a database?

 Regards,
 Mike.

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

 iEYEARECAAYFAk0d5i8ACgkQmUrfmTU1ohXUSgCeINu+UM/bwgzJ24YVLcdotjXy
 ptQAn2PFgDi4sKVP++RiMDO2OE6Ubwb+
 =71I6
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.


update_db.sh
Description: Bourne shell script
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Coastline Tidal Positions

[Graham Jones]

The Vector Map District data includes some nice features like rocks and
cliffs too (e.g http://maps.webhop.net/vmdmap/Hartlepool.png).
I haven't tried to get these into OSM yet though - that is just a rendering
of the OS data.

Graham.

On 16 September 2010 16:15, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:

 Craig Loftus wrote:

 Which is more accurate: the OS Streetview data that shows MHW (spring, I
 assume) or the PGS data?



 I haven't used it for coast lines, but doesn't OS Vector District
 include the high water mark? This would be the most 'accurate',
 although not necessarily the most 'correct' source? Certainly better
 than tracing from Streetview.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OS_Shapefiles


 The OS data seems much better than the PGS data.
 The OS vector data does seem to be older than the OS StreetView data, in
 places that I have compared so in places where there is a lot of change,
 such as rapid coastal erosion, tracing StreetView seems better.

 --
 Cheers, Chris
 user: chillly



 ___
 Talk-GB mailing list
 Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb




-- 
Dr. Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK
email: grahamjones...@gmail.com
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb