[OSM-fi] OpenStreetMap - karttojen Wikipedia, to 10.6.2010 klo 18 Tampereella

2010-06-03 Per discussione Otto Kekäläinen
(in English below)

*Fellowship-tapaaminen Tampereella*

Paikkatietoasiantuntija Jukka Rahkonen kertoo miten omalla GPS-laitteella 
voi osallistua OpenStreetMapin parantamiseen sekä miten OSM-aineistoja 
hyödyntää omien OGC-standardin mukaisten karttojen ja palveluiden tekemiseksi. 

Tilaisuuden järjestää Euroopan vapaiden ohjemistojen säätiö
(http://www.fsfe.org). Tilaisuus on ilmainen ja avoin kaikille. Jotta
voimme mitoittaa tarjoilun, toivomme osallistujien ilmoittavan tulostaan
etukäteen osoitteeseen finl...@fsfeurope.org, mutta ilmoittautuminen ei ole
pakollista. 

http://www.vapaasuomi.fi/Kalenteri/OpenStreetMap_-_karttojen_Wikipedia



*Fellowship meeting in Tampere*

GIS-expert Jukka Rahkonen tells about the OpenStreetMap-project and 
how you can contribute to it with your own GPS-device and how you 
can use OSM-data to make your own maps and GIS-services that comply 
with the OGC-standards. 

Admission to the event is free. No registration is required, but if you
plan to attend, please drop us a line at finl...@fsfeurope.org.

https://wiki.fsfe.org/Tampere 2010-06-10


-- 
Otto Kekäläinen   [] o...@fsfe.org
Finnish Team Coordinator[][][]  GPG/PGP 0xB7F7E4E1
Free Software Foundation Europe   ||  +358 44 566 2204
http://www.fsfe.org/  finl...@fsfe.org





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[Talk-hr] pravne zavrzlame

2010-06-03 Per discussione Valent Turkovic
Tko ne prati problematiku neka svakako baci oko pošto je Nails dosta 
upucen:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Matija%20Nalis/diary/10855

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mnalis#Plans



-- 
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linux, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless, ronjenje, pametne kuće
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Re: [talk-ph] better ways to coordinate coastline mapping?

2010-06-03 Per discussione maning sambale
Excellent!  I updated the wiki page to indicate your progress.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Coastline_Corrections#Priorities

FYI, I also finished Bohol and Panay.  I am starting Samar Island
(offline for the moment in order not to break anything).

The hard ones are Mainland Mindanao and Palawan. Any takers?

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have just finished the entire eastern coastline of Mindoro.  Wondering
 when they will appear at mapnik?  Wasn't there a way to request for
 re-rendering?  Or was that for Osmarender?
Use the osmareder to view updates.  Update to Mapnik coastlines  less
frequent.  The last update was Wed Apr 14 13:19:17 UTC 2010
http://hypercube.telascience.org/~kleptog/last_update.txt

 anyway, will work on the western part naman this weekend

 cheers

 On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Ed Garcia eppgar...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is via JOSM/WMS Landsat, right?  Just the other week, I have done
 some Agusan coastlines near Cabadbaran City.

 Ok, I will take Mindoro now ...

 cheers


 On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 5:10 PM, maning sambale
 emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote:

  The first proposed priority is to focus coastline mapping to the 10
  largest islands and then move on to the next.
 
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Coastline_Corrections#Priorities

 I expected lower figures, but it seems we have great coverage already
 for the top 10 largest islands!
  - Leyte is almost complete (major work by axk?)
  - Luzon and Cebu almost there
  - Bohol will probably take just a few more hours
  - major work needed for Mindoro, Negros, Samar, Palawan, Panay and
 Mainland Mindanao

 Choose you island now after this batch (goal is to finish by end of
 June 2010), we can move on to the 10 or 20.

 Anyone up for the challenge?

 --
 cheers,
 maning
 --
 Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
 wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
 blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
 --

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 - www.waypoints.ph
 - reeflife.eppgarcia.com

 PADI Divemaster #491048



 --
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 - www.waypoints.ph
 - reeflife.eppgarcia.com

 PADI Divemaster #491048




-- 
cheers,
maning
--
Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Potential huge License violation - anyone know anything about this?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Potential huge License violation - anyone know anything about this?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Oliver (skobbler)

So, in summary:

- No attribution
- Is a derived work released under Copyright

I assume this hasn't been cleared and 'waived' by someone at OSM? Where can
we go from here?


I think that in cases where we can prove such a 'mistake' we should send
them a letter and clearly indicate their wrong behavior. In addition we
should put a sentence that they can make donation to OpenStreetMap and the
community forgets about the mistake. Otherwise the OSMF might take further
legal actions. 

From my experience I can tell that most companies would be willing to pay a
reasonable amount as it would take away the risk of bad press. In the end
the outcome would be best for both parties where the impact and severity of
the mistake is low or medium (I wouldn't consider it a huge violation as in
the header. For me a huge violation is when another make maker steals OSM
data). 

In cases where a company gains a financial advantage from a breach of
license I think legal actions would be appropriate and should definitely be
taken. I think this is important as many companies are already watching what
happens in case of a severe violation to OSM data. If nothing happens many
companies might take advantage...

Regards,
Oliver
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Potential huge License violation - anyone know anything about this?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi,

Oliver (skobbler) wrote:
 In addition we
 should put a sentence that they can make donation to OpenStreetMap and the
 community forgets about the mistake. Otherwise the OSMF might take further
 legal actions. 

You mean as in

Dear Mr President, I've got this photo showing you in bed with another 
man, here's my bank account where you can make a donation, in which case 
I will forget about it...

... unless I need more money later in which case I might again remember?

Honestly, what you're suggesting smacks of blackmail. I do not doubt for 
a second that it will work in some cases but I consider it morally 
inacceptable, *especially* because every single contributor is entitled 
to take legal action, so even if the accused paid up nobody in the world 
can guarantee that he would not get sued, or get bad press.

(I'm not sure in how far this might change with the proposed license 
change; if the license change puts OSMF in the sole position of being 
able to sue then yes, OSMF could say they won't sue in exchange for 
payment but I would still consider this questionable, not least because 
it would mean that if they decline to pay we'd have to sue which I'd 
like to avoid.)

 In cases where a company gains a financial advantage from a breach of
 license I think legal actions would be appropriate and should definitely be
 taken. I think this is important as many companies are already watching what
 happens in case of a severe violation to OSM data. If nothing happens many
 companies might take advantage...

I am very skeptical of legal action. If someone really takes the piss 
then yes, perhaps, but it must never come to OSMF being a fundraising 
machine for lawyers. Legal action can very quickly cost more than 
everything else we do, and I would hate to be in a project whose main 
activity, according to the balance books, is paying lawyers to sue people.

Legal action must be the exception, not the norm, and reserved for 
really big cases. There is so much murky and questionable legal action 
going on around copyright and maps, and it must never come to people 
being fearful of using OSM because they fear the legal consequences of 
misstepping.

Also, if we start threatening to sue people then we also need to set up 
proper advice for users (if you follow these rules then we won't sue 
you), and be prepared to answer questions (I want to do X. Is that 
allowed?) with something other than Dunno, ask a lawyer, and we might 
still sue you later.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Potential huge License violation - anyone know anything about this?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Oliver (skobbler)

Dear Mr President, I've got this photo showing you in bed with another
man, here's my bank account where you can make a donation, in which case
 will forget about it...

... unless I need more money later in which case I might again remember?

Honestly, what you're suggesting smacks of blackmail. 

It is a completely different story. The reason behind the action is stop
others from repeating the mistakes. If you just ignore every case without
consequences you fill in a blank cheque for the rest of world. You normally
see roughly 100 hundred post in a mailing list in case of a misuse but not
action towards the guys who were misbehaving. I think this is one of the big
weaknesses of OSM: it is very good at arguing in the group but not at taking
it to the outside world. There needs to be a process to educate the market.
It does not help anybody to show the frustrations in mailing list. And if
you have a better proposal for education then please come up with it.

I am very skeptical of legal action. If someone really takes the piss
then yes, perhaps, but it must never come to OSMF being a fundraising
machine for lawyers. Legal action can very quickly cost more than
everything else we do, and I would hate to be in a project whose main
activity, according to the balance books, is paying lawyers to sue people. 

If that is needed to prevent OSM from exploiting then - yes - there might be
fundraising machine for legal support. However, I have not intention to
artificially blow it up. I just want to create a situation where people are
aware that abusing OSM data leads to consequences so that is becomes a
trade-off like not buying a ticket for train.

Regards,
Oliver
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Potential huge License violation - anyone know anything about this?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi,

Oliver (skobbler) wrote:
 I just want to create a situation where people are
 aware that abusing OSM data leads to consequences so that is becomes a
 trade-off like not buying a ticket for train.

If too many people use the train without paying then the operator will 
go bust.

If too many people use OSM without attribution then...?

Don't get me wrong, as long as we have this license we should insist on 
people following it, if only to respect our work. But by making 
comparisons like the above you're already playing what I like to call 
the music industry game, which is neatly illustrated here:

http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/ob/piratebay_header.jpg

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Potential huge License violation - anyone know anything about this?

2010-06-03 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/6/3 Phil Monger phil...@gmail.com:
 I want OSM to be used in this way, but properly - and with according
 advantages given to end users. Companies *need to know* they
 cannot assert copyright over the mapping they take in this way.


+1

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Maarten Deen
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:52:25 -0700 (PDT), Simon Biber
simonbi...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
 Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:
 If I'm mapping I try and keep nodes intact and edit the tagging
 to preserve the ID and history, but there are cases where this
 can't happen.
 
 Another example where ID and history are lost is when we change items
from
 single nodes to areas, as we get higher resolution photo maps (like
 NearMap) or more accurate GPS / inertial positioning devices. Recently I
 have been deleting nodes and recreating them as areas for playgrounds,
 tennis courts, swimming pools, etc.
 
 Apart from the loss of ID and history, this also affects clients such as
 Mapzen POI Collector. Once a point of interest is no longer a single
node,
 Mapzen does not consider it as a point of interest or allow it to be
 edited. It even disappears from the map entirely for several weeks,
until
 Mapzen's base layer is re-rendered to show the area.
 
 Does anyone have a good solution for this?

Keep the node (not because of the ID, but because of the POI meaning) and
add the area as a non-named area with only tags to indicate usage.
Optionally add them all in a relation.
That way you keep the POI for POI collectors, you can use the POI to
position the name on the map and still have the site visible as an area on
the map.

Other solution: have POI collectors rewrite their code to consider areas
too (and use the average location of all points in the area as the POI
location). 

I must say I have not always mapped according to the first rule myself.
But IMHO this is a point that needs discussing, for the POI collector's
sake.

Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 3 June 2010 16:07, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 Keep the node (not because of the ID, but because of the POI meaning) and
 add the area as a non-named area with only tags to indicate usage.
 Optionally add them all in a relation.
 That way you keep the POI for POI collectors, you can use the POI to
 position the name on the map and still have the site visible as an area on
 the map.

 Other solution: have POI collectors rewrite their code to consider areas
 too (and use the average location of all points in the area as the POI
 location).

 I must say I have not always mapped according to the first rule myself.
 But IMHO this is a point that needs discussing, for the POI collector's
 sake.

Even if you did map for the POI collectors they still need to take
into account POIs added as areas by others, so it seems like poor
coding not to deal with POIs as areas in any case.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
Hi,
here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id,
we might focus on making some form of permalink that is usable upon
request. Like for wikipedia articles etc, that we can link to and be
relatively sure that the link will still be there. Some form of watch
tool that would inform the user that the permalink he created is
broken.
It would be easier to maintain a list of don't break me links than
to rework the whole system.
mike

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:19 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 3 June 2010 16:07, Maarten Deen md...@xs4all.nl wrote:
 Keep the node (not because of the ID, but because of the POI meaning) and
 add the area as a non-named area with only tags to indicate usage.
 Optionally add them all in a relation.
 That way you keep the POI for POI collectors, you can use the POI to
 position the name on the map and still have the site visible as an area on
 the map.

 Other solution: have POI collectors rewrite their code to consider areas
 too (and use the average location of all points in the area as the POI
 location).

 I must say I have not always mapped according to the first rule myself.
 But IMHO this is a point that needs discussing, for the POI collector's
 sake.

 Even if you did map for the POI collectors they still need to take
 into account POIs added as areas by others, so it seems like poor
 coding not to deal with POIs as areas in any case.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 3 June 2010 16:26, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Hi,
 here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id,

I didn't actually mean everything in that sense, for example the nodes
on a road don't all need unique IDs nor should they get them, but at
the same time a single node might need 2 unique IDs, one for the
building and one for the business occupying the building.

In any case I think I mixed up 2 issues in the one email, that is
assigning objects unique IDs and then distributing those unique IDs on
stickers as a kind of PR/advertising exercise.

To cover the first issue about using/assigning unique IDs against OSM
objects, I've written a wiki page with some initial thoughts on the
subject:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/UUID

As for promotion, I'll leave that till UUIDs are sorted.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Pieren
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 9:19 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 3 June 2010 16:26, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:
  Hi,
  here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id,

 I didn't actually mean everything in that sense, for example the nodes
 on a road don't all need unique IDs nor should they get them, but at
 the same time a single node might need 2 unique IDs, one for the
 building and one for the business occupying the building.


At the end, you just translate a lat/lon + tag to a number when you can
simply request a tag by its lat/lon to an appropriate api.
The unique ID already exists, it's the osm_id. Why should we recreate the
wheel ? But it's true that the ID is not permanent and cannot really be
trusted. URL's in Wikipedia have the same issue. What about trying to
improve the persistence of the ID by using a similar mechanism : when an
editor sees that a node has been replaced by another node or polygon with
the same meaning (or set of tags), it could insert a kind of #REDIRECT
into the removed object redirecting to the new osm_id

Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 3 June 2010 17:56, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
 At the end, you just translate a lat/lon + tag to a number when you can
 simply request a tag by its lat/lon to an appropriate api.

This doesn't cover the case of where a business moves...

 The unique ID already exists, it's the osm_id. Why should we recreate the
 wheel ? But it's true that the ID is not permanent and cannot really be

You answered your own question...

 trusted. URL's in Wikipedia have the same issue. What about trying to
 improve the persistence of the ID by using a similar mechanism : when an
 editor sees that a node has been replaced by another node or polygon with
 the same meaning (or set of tags), it could insert a kind of #REDIRECT
 into the removed object redirecting to the new osm_id

This doesn't work because not every object needs a unique ID, some
objects need multiple unique IDs and some objects need to share the
same unique ID, or create a relation and use the unique ID on the
relation, although this could be another method to tag similar/same
objects without needing to use a relation. Redirecting won't be
effective in the example I listed on the wiki page of a building
having a unique ID and a tenant having a unique ID and the tenant
moving to a new building, the unique ID can follow the tenant but not
effect the existing building information like address.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Andy Allan
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:52 AM, Simon Biber simonbi...@yahoo.com.au wrote:

 Apart from the loss of ID and history, this also affects clients such as 
 Mapzen POI Collector. Once a point of interest is no longer a single node, 
 Mapzen does not consider it as a point of interest or allow it to be edited. 
 It even disappears from the map entirely for several weeks, until Mapzen's 
 base layer is re-rendered to show the area.

 Does anyone have a good solution for this?

When I was working on the POI collector roadmap it was always the
intention to interpret point of interest areas as well as point of
interest nodes. I'm not sure if any such areas are being dealt with
yet - the idea was to synthesize a POI in the middle of the area to
let you change the tags, but not change the geometry. We'd need an
update from one of the CloudMade team.

Feel free to keep converting nodes into areas when you feel it's appropriate.

Cheers,
Andy

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: Software goes on, brain goes off...

2010-06-03 Per discussione Steve Chilton
talking of annoying . has this thread not been to death?!

-Original Message- 
From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org on behalf of John Smith 
Sent: Wed 02/06/2010 15:16 
To: Anthony 
Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; Nick Whitelegg 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Fw: Software goes on, brain goes off...



On 3 June 2010 00:15, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 They could always require people to log in.  Or require people to log 
in if
 they want to put up with the annoying terms and conditions only once.

This woman is claiming she wasn't warned the route might be bad, so to
ensure that people don't forget they agreed to view the warning only
once, everyone will be forced to view it every time regardless.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Pieren
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:07 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:


 This doesn't cover the case of where a business moves...



What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for persistent
objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find the
new address.

Pieren
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 3 June 2010 19:39, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
 What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for persistent
 objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find the
 new address.

Businesses are only one application, I'm not sure what 3rd party sites
are using OSM IDs but Flickr and osmfuel.org are 2 that I know of and
every time some new use for OSM IDs occur people always seem to
comment about why it's such a bad idea to use OSM IDs, I'm trying to
come up with a better suggestion.

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Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki

2010-06-03 Per discussione Ed Avis
To find the official name of the street you can ask the local authority or
whichever body is responsible for naming streets.  They may also promise to
update the street signs in due course.  In the meantime put the correct data
in OSM, together with a note citing the response you received.

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-talk] SahanaCamp and Workshop - July 2010 - Delhi, India

2010-06-03 Per discussione Kate Chapman
I just want to second that the Sahana crew is great.  They are
interested in collaborating between the OSM Humanitarian tagging
scheme and Sahana.  The idea being to bridge between the two systems
to utilize Sahana to track things that wouldn't be put in OSM (things
like people for example).

RELIEF is a quarterly exercise in the U.S. were different projects get
together to collaborate.  This was discussed and worked on at the
previous one a couple months ago.

Thanks,

Kate

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Tim McNamara
paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz wrote:
 Hi all,

 If there are any OSM members in the sub-continent, I recommend this event.
 Sahana makes heavy use of Open Street Maps, and GIS systems in general. It's
 a great framework for developing applications in the humanitarian  disaster
 response domains. I'm sure many of the participants would be interested in
 collaborating.

 My best,

 Tim McNamara

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Michael Howden michael.how...@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 6:20 PM
 Subject: [Sahana-user] SahanaCamp and Workshop - July 2010 - Delhi, India
 To: sahana-u...@lists.sourceforge.net, Sahana developers' list
 sahana-main...@lists.sourceforge.net, sahana-e...@googlegroups.com


 UPCOMING EVENTS:
 -

 SahanaCamp
 2nd - 5th July 20100
 For Programmers and Web Designers who are interested in building Information
 Technology Solutions for Disasters and Development

 Sahana Workshop Information Technology Solutions for Disasters and
 Development
 3rd July 2010
 For people working for NGOs/UN/Government/Other Agencies and others
 interested in Information Technology Solutions for Disasters and Development


 Location:
 Sarai-CSDS
 29 Rajpur Road
 Civil Lines
 Delhi - 110054
 India

 Cost:
 FREE

 Applications:
 Spaces are limited. Applications close 14th June.

 Sahana Workshop:
 http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dHkwMEs0QzZmcnQ4YlVHMFR5U1JB
 ZXc6MQ
 SahanaCamp (includes Sahana Workshop):
 http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dG9IcHJ6SlNCWG5COTFfbUVaSExW
 R1E6MQ


 Sahana
 ---
 Sahana is a Free and Open Source Disaster Management System which was
 started in Sri Lanka after the 2004 Tsunami. It is a web based collaboration
 tool that addresses the common coordination problems during a disaster from
 finding missing people, managing aid, managing volunteers, tracking camps
 effectively between Government groups, the civil society (NGOs) and the
 people affected by disasters.
 www.sahanafoundation.org


 Details
 
 Sahana Workshop is a one day event which will provide an introduction to how
 information technology can be used to assist organisations working in
 disasters and development. It will include opportunities to share
 experiences and lessons learned with others who have worked in this area.
 You'll get hand on experience using the Sahana Eden
 (http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/) platform which was deployed in response
 to the Earthquake in Haiti and includes SMS and Mapping technologies.
 Finally, you'll have the opportunity to share your real world needs for
 information technology solutions to provide input for the future development
 of Sahana.

 SahanaCamp is a four day long intensive event, for programmers and web
 designers who are involved or interested in helping organizations working in
 Disasters and Development. You will be introduced to programming in Python
 on the Sahana Eden Rapid Application Development (RAD) platform. You will be
 developing real solutions to meet real needs such as Logistics,
 Organisational Management and Mapping or according to your needs. You'll be
 working aside members of the core Sahana Eden development team, who will be
 there to support and encourage you along. SahanaCamp would be ideal for
 programmers and web designers who are developing solution for Disasters and
 Development organizations.
 Participants are expected to have existing programming or design skills (and
 will certainly learn some new ones during the camp!).

 Venue
 --
 Sarai is a programme of the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies,
 (CSDS)  one of India's leading research institutes with a commitment to
 critical and dissenting thought and a focus on critically expanding the
 horizons of the discourse on development, particularly with reference to
 South Asia. We are a coalition of researchers and practitioners with a
 commitment towards developing a model of research-practice that is public
 and creative, in which multiple voices express and render themselves in a
 variety of forms.
 www.sarai.net

 For more information, please contact mich...@sahanafoundation.org or visit
 http://wiki.sahanafoundation.org/doku.php/community:sahanacamp.

 Could you please share this invitation amongst your networks and with other
 who may be interested.

 Regards

 Michael Howden
 mich...@sahanafoundation.org


 --

[OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione Frederik Ramm
Hi,

for the first time, this week's .osm.bz2 planet has an eleven-digit 
size (10026036818 bytes). That's up 20% from beginning of the year. In 
2007, we had an 88% increase in the same time span; in 2008 it was 36%, 
and in 2009  it was 19%. Of course these numbers say little since we had 
numerous large imports, format changes, and even changed the bz2 
implementation along the way.

The uncompressed XML file ist just a few bytes short of 150 GB.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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[OSM-talk] transhumance routes

2010-06-03 Per discussione James Stewart
In Spain there is a large network of historic transhumance routes (cañadas or 
Viás Pecuarias http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%ADa_pecuaria) 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumance)  that we have started a discussion 
about how to tag. So far we are creating relations that link the various bits 
of path, track and road that make them up 
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vias_Pecuarias_de_España). However we need 
consensus on how to tag them, since they are an international feature - 
primarily, what to call them.
In England they are called  'drovers' roads' 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drovers'_road) en Australia  'stock routes',  USA 
 'cattle trail', French 'chemin de transhumance'.

Any suggestions on what to call them. route= transhumance could be a more 
academic solution, route='livestock' a bit more agricultural.

In some countries transhumance is still a practice, so the routes are 'live'. 
In Spain they are historic, but many exist and are a point of controversy 
between landowners and ecologists/historical right of way people. 

James


-- 
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Scotland, with registration number SC005336.


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Re: [OSM-talk] transhumance routes

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 3 June 2010 23:34, James Stewart j.k.stew...@ed.ac.uk wrote:
 In England they are called  'drovers' roads' 
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drovers'_road) en Australia  'stock routes',  
 USA  'cattle trail', French 'chemin de transhumance'.

When in doubt people usually opt for the UK english terms, in this
case it also seems to be the shortest, the important thing is to
properly document what you do more than the specific term you use.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Anthony
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:26 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com 
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 here is a humble suggestion, instead of giving *everything* unique id,
 we might focus on making some form of permalink that is usable upon
 request. Like for wikipedia articles etc, that we can link to and be
 relatively sure that the link will still be there. Some form of watch
 tool that would inform the user that the permalink he created is
 broken.
 It would be easier to maintain a list of don't break me links than
 to rework the whole system.
 mike


Okay, here's a plan.  I took some of the detail from
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/UUID but adapted it a
bit:

*From the URL for any node/way/relation (or lat/lon pair) one can click on a
button make permanent link.
*The node/way/relation gets tagged with uuid=*, where * is generated using
an algorithm expected to create a universally unique id (I'll let someone
more expert determine how, but I was thinking some sort of hash on the xml
of the feature itself plus the time).  If a lat/lon pair is created then a
new node is created with that uuid.
*A wiki page is set up where http://domain/wiki/UUID has text, links, and a
slippy map.  The slippy map highlights the element which has the UUID.  The
text is meant to be brief - only enough to uniquely identify the thing
(perhaps the description text could even be duplicated in a uuid_description
tag).  Links would be used for the actual interesting data about the
thing.
*If more than one element points to the same UUID, this is an error - use a
relation if you want to do this.
*Mappers are encouraged to check http://domain/wiki/UUID before deleting or
repurposing nodes/ways/relations.
*A bot goes through regularly checking for additions, deletions, drastic
changes, duplicate UUIDs, etc., and adds them to a list for people to
manually check/fix.
*All external sources are encouraged to point to UUIDs, not to the element
id.

Please note that I've abandoned the functionality of having multiple uuids
on a single element (e.g. uuid:building and uuid:shop).  I felt that this
overcomplicates things from the standpoint of someone clicking on make
permanent link - they shouldn't have to know anything about the internal
workings of OSM and I want to maintain the flexibility to tag *anything*,
not just a predetermined list of things.  I suppose this could be allowed
for advanced users who want to do things by hand, but it's not in this plan.

Anthony
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Anthony
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:

 Please note that I've abandoned the functionality of having multiple uuids
 on a single element (e.g. uuid:building and uuid:shop).


Hmm, on second thought, maybe that's not such a hot idea.  There might be
two different stores which are combined into one, and obviously we'd want to
keep both uuids (otherwise they wouldn't be permanent).

Still, I'd prefer uuid=1;2;3 to uuid:*=*.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 00:07, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 *The node/way/relation gets tagged with uuid=*, where * is generated using
 an algorithm expected to create a universally unique id (I'll let someone
 more expert determine how, but I was thinking some sort of hash on the xml
 of the feature itself plus the time).  If a lat/lon pair is created then a
 new node is created with that uuid.

This is why I included links to RFC 4122, this already covers
generating UUIDs in a standard way and that way we avoid trying to
reinvent the wheel, plus there is already UUID libraries.

 *A wiki page is set up where http://domain/wiki/UUID has text, links, and a
 slippy map.  The slippy map highlights the element which has the UUID.  The
 text is meant to be brief - only enough to uniquely identify the thing
 (perhaps the description text could even be duplicated in a uuid_description
 tag).  Links would be used for the actual interesting data about the
 thing.

This wiki page could also contain a list of existing references IDs
from import sources, that way if you know the source and the ID from
the source you can find the OSM UUID.

 Please note that I've abandoned the functionality of having multiple uuids
 on a single element (e.g. uuid:building and uuid:shop).  I felt that this
 overcomplicates things from the standpoint of someone clicking on make
 permanent link - they shouldn't have to know anything about the internal

I disagree, lets call shop and building UUID tag types, when you want
to create a unique ID and only one of these UUID tag types exists it
simply gets added as uuid=* or uuid:UUID tag type=*, alternatively
if there is multiple a dialog could simply ask which UUID tag type
they wish to add, similar to other JOSM preset dialogs.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
To extend Anthony's idea slightly further it might be useful to create
a bot script that if you want a UUID for an object in the OSM DB, it
can tag the object with a new UUID and return that, or simply return
the any existing UUIDs, this would take care of things like
Flickr/osmfuel/wikipedia needing to find out the UUID if they get a
node/way/relation ID.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 00:20, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 Hmm, on second thought, maybe that's not such a hot idea.  There might be
 two different stores which are combined into one, and obviously we'd want to
 keep both uuids (otherwise they wouldn't be permanent).

This may require multiple relations against a single node or area
otherwise you won't know which uuid would apply to which store.

 Still, I'd prefer uuid=1;2;3 to uuid:*=*.

The benefit of sub-tagging instead of tag stuffing is it is more
efficient for things to parse.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Serge Wroclawski
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:


 What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for persistent
 objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find the
 new address.

I'm sorry to jump into this thread from hell, but you've touched on a
question that's been unclear to me from the beginning of this
discussion, which is What does an permanent object mean?

A common thing for me to do as a mapper is manually collect POIs while
walking, upload them, and then later, using sources like imagry, get
rid of my nodes and replace them with ways (eg buildings).

So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
move with the library, or does it stay with the building?

- Serge

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 00:38, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm sorry to jump into this thread from hell, but you've touched on a
 question that's been unclear to me from the beginning of this
 discussion, which is What does an permanent object mean?

There are no permanent objects in OSM, some just last longer than others.

 So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
 What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
 do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
 my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
 move with the library, or does it stay with the building?

That ended up the point of this thread, figuring a method to tag any
object, doesn't matter if it's a node or a way or an area or a
relation, and have a way to refer to that object, even if that object
changes from being a node to being an area. The actual object is less
important, in this context, than the unique ID number keeping tracking
of it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Emilie Laffray
On 3 June 2010 15:38, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:

 
  What external applications need from OSM is a persistent ID for
 persistent
  objects. If a business moves, then use a yellow page application to find
 the
  new address.

 I'm sorry to jump into this thread from hell, but you've touched on a
 question that's been unclear to me from the beginning of this
 discussion, which is What does an permanent object mean?

 A common thing for me to do as a mapper is manually collect POIs while
 walking, upload them, and then later, using sources like imagry, get
 rid of my nodes and replace them with ways (eg buildings).

 So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
 What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
 do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
 my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
 move with the library, or does it stay with the building?


The idea behind John's idea is that the permanent UUID is linked to your
library. So if your library moves, you need to move the UUID tags to the new
building. It is meant to be associated with the moral entity like a
library, a shop, etc... Moral entity might not be the best term but it is
close, I think.

Emilie Laffray
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Anthony
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.comwrote:

 On 3 June 2010 15:38, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
 So is the permanent object the node? Is the permanent object the POI?
 What if the POI moves? If I tag the public library as a POI node, then
 do a building trace, that's one POI- but what if the library moves (as
 my local library is planning on doing). Does that permanent object
 move with the library, or does it stay with the building?


 The idea behind John's idea is that the permanent UUID is linked to your
 library. So if your library moves, you need to move the UUID tags to the new
 building. It is meant to be associated with the moral entity like a
 library, a shop, etc... Moral entity might not be the best term but it is
 close, I think.


Yes.  The way I see it, the permanent object/moral entity would be
whatever you describe in the text.  So if you put in the text the Texas
School Book Depository, the uuid should move when the book depository
moves.  If you put in the text the building where Oswald shot Kennedy, the
uuid shouldn't move when the book depository moves.  I'd think in most cases
you'd choose the former rather than the latter, but in some cases you might
really want to link to the latter (such as the example given).
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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 00:58, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 Yes.  The way I see it, the permanent object/moral entity would be
 whatever you describe in the text.  So if you put in the text the Texas
 School Book Depository, the uuid should move when the book depository
 moves.  If you put in the text the building where Oswald shot Kennedy, the
 uuid shouldn't move when the book depository moves.  I'd think in most cases
 you'd choose the former rather than the latter, but in some cases you might
 really want to link to the latter (such as the example given).

Actually that's a better example than the one I thought up, I'll add
it to the wiki page.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 3 June 2010 23:01, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
for the first time, this week's .osm.bz2 planet has an eleven-digit
 size (10026036818 bytes). That's up 20% from beginning of the year. In

Do we really have to stoop to GB v GiB debate to make things look better?

I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione Alexander Menk
Hi John,

John Smith wrote:
 It's come up in the past about unique IDs for objects, some people use
 OSM IDs for this, however someone has come up with a different way to
 do this, make a QR code and stick it to the object and use the QR
 codes ID number:
 
 http://digitalurban.blogspot.com/2010/05/how-to-add-anything-to-internet-of.html
 
 I wonder how hard it would be to have OSM stickers with unique ID
 codes and ask business owners to put them up in their windows?

we are doing something like this here in Ethiopia.

We assign OSM POIs (IDs) with short names (www.addismap.com/name). We 
have prepared stickers and write with a perma marker the name part.

No QR code anyways, as nobody would have the sufficient mobile phones to 
decode that stuff.

Greetings from Addis Ababa,

Alexander

www.addismap.com


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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione Kai Krueger


John Smith-7 wrote:
 
 I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
 user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.
 

Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who have at least
one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they don't turn
up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts have done at
least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.

Some other statistics about users that might be interesting though. In the
past week there were 1559 users who's first edit was less than 5 days ago.
An additional 610 users whos first edit was less than 45 days ago. 2942
Users less than 500 days and another 1070 edited this week who have been
with OSM for more than 500 days.

So that appears like a fairly healthy distribution between new and old
mappers. I haven't broken those numbers down by region, which might be quite
interesting too.

Kai

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione Julio Costa Zambelli
Dear Kai,

Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in this
bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?

Thank you very much.

Regards,

Julio Costa
OpenStreetMap Chile
http://www.openstreetmap.cl/


On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:



 John Smith-7 wrote:
 
  I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
  user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.
 

 Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who have at
 least
 one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they don't turn
 up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts have done at
 least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.

 Some other statistics about users that might be interesting though. In the
 past week there were 1559 users who's first edit was less than 5 days ago.
 An additional 610 users whos first edit was less than 45 days ago. 2942
 Users less than 500 days and another 1070 edited this week who have been
 with OSM for more than 500 days.

 So that appears like a fairly healthy distribution between new and old
 mappers. I haven't broken those numbers down by region, which might be
 quite
 interesting too.

 Kai

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 View this message in context:
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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione Jukka Rahkonen
Julio Costa Zambelli julio.costa at openstreetmap.cl writes:

 Dear Kai,Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in
this bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?Thank you
very much.Regards,Julio Costa
 

Hi,

Itoworld has a tool for this, see 
http://www.itoworld.com/static/openstreetmap.html



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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione Milo van der Linden
I always use the ITO OpenStreetMap environment for specific bbox and 
time/date edit queries:


http://www.itoworld.com/static/openstreetmap.html


On 06/03/2010 09:23 PM, Julio Costa Zambelli wrote:

Dear Kai,

Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in 
this bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?


Thank you very much.

Regards,

Julio Costa
OpenStreetMap Chile
http://www.openstreetmap.cl/


On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com 
mailto:kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:




John Smith-7 wrote:

 I'd still like to know the actual stats of users v accounts, to me a
 user isn't a user unless they've made 5 or more edits.


Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who
have at least
one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they
don't turn
up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts
have done at
least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.

Some other statistics about users that might be interesting
though. In the
past week there were 1559 users who's first edit was less than 5
days ago.
An additional 610 users whos first edit was less than 45 days ago.
2942
Users less than 500 days and another 1070 edited this week who
have been
with OSM for more than 500 days.

So that appears like a fairly healthy distribution between new and old
mappers. I haven't broken those numbers down by region, which
might be quite
interesting too.

Kai

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[OSM-talk] H.O.T. Kit Fundraiser

2010-06-03 Per discussione Kate Chapman
Hey All,

Nicolas Chavent and I are heading to Haiti on June 14th.  On previous
missions we left behind computers/GPS Units and printer scanners so
people could continue mapping.

At the moment there is no further funding for more kits, but we are
going to be moving out to additional cities in Haiti.

We are doing a last minute fundraiser to see if we can get money for
more kits: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/weblog/?page_id=13

If you want to help that would be most amazing,

Kate

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 04:32, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote:
 Assuming my statistics are correct, there are 119071 users who have at least
 one changeset (excluding those users that are anonymous, as they don't turn
 up in the changesets). So about half of the number of accounts have done at
 least one edit. I haven't done the statistics for 5 or more edits.

Thanks for that, imho this is a more realistic number, although I'm
guessing that number would also includes bots although it may be
difficult to know which accounts are bots...

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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 05:23, Julio Costa Zambelli julio.co...@openstreetmap.cl wrote:
 Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in this
 bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?

JOSM has a changeset panel, which would give you duplicate users, and
has been quite useful to me in the past.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Giving everything a unique ID

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 00:20, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote:
 Hmm, on second thought, maybe that's not such a hot idea.  There might be
 two different stores which are combined into one, and obviously we'd want to
 keep both uuids (otherwise they wouldn't be permanent).

David Dean has suggested Flickr would probably be more interested in
building UUIDs than tenants, so this is as good a reason as any to
automatically allocate multiple UUIDs based on what the object is
tagged with when a UUID is requested.

I've also incorporated most of your previous emails suggestions into
the wiki page, it might be useful to get a comment from Flickr or
Wikipedia about our current thinking, since they are the ones most
likely to benefit from this.

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[OSM-talk] 2D Barcodes for locations

2010-06-03 Per discussione simon
 The 'shortlink' does not describe an object with OSM, it describes a
location on the planet (akin to a lat/long).
 ie:
 http://osm.org/go/0EEQCvG5-?m
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Shortlink

I wanted to follow on from this idea a little as I think that there is
some potential here, if someone wants to run with it.

QR-Codes and DataMatrix have limitations in how much data and what type of
data can be stored, which results in varying sized barcodes.

For DataMatrix (which I have some experience in) there are several
'alphabets' with special sequences to switch between them. If the
shortlink was all upper, all lower or case independant this would be
better, but they are already defined to use the following encoding.

--
  # array of 64 chars to encode 6 bits. this is almost like base64
encoding, but
  # the symbolic chars are different, as base64's + and / aren't very  #
URL-friendly.
  ARRAY = ('A'..'Z').to_a + ('a'..'z').to_a + ('0'..'9').to_a + ['_','@']
--

Which means that the maximum compression can not happen, but link can be
represented in Text, C40, ASCII, Base256.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.507859lon=-0.127828zoom=18layers=B000FTF
compresses to
http://osm.org/go/euu4gZ_It--?m

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.507859lon=-0.127828zoom=10layers=B000FTF
compresses to
http://osm.org/go/euu4gZ?m

I've attached some example images,
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Re: [OSM-talk] Planet file now at 10 GB

2010-06-03 Per discussione Alan Mintz
At 2010-06-03 12:23, Julio Costa Zambelli wrote:
Is there a way for you to check how many people have been editing in this 
bbox ([Lat/Lon][-17.5/-77][-56/-68]) in, lets say, the last week?


To see changesets in a specific area, browse:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/history?bbox=MinLong,MinLat,MaxLong,MaxLat

Note that it includes a lot of noise generated by bots that define huge 
areas for their changesets. You'd have to download the individual 
changesets, then walk through them and get the min/max lat/lon to find the 
real edited area. It would be nice if, on upload, the API would 
automatically do this and add a tag with that info.

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] 2D Barcodes for locations

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 4 June 2010 13:17,  si...@mungewell.org wrote:
 QR-Codes and DataMatrix have limitations in how much data and what type of
 data can be stored, which results in varying sized barcodes.

The limitations of QR codes, if we embed a URL, should be plenty, even
without any compression, eg:

http://osm.org/qr/21d906f1-7a93-49f5-beee-7c126b840a85

Although the QR code could be smaller if less error correction was
used, or smaller pixels, or we could make them bigger and have the OSM
URL underneath...
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[OSM-talk] hot.openstreetmap.org

2010-06-03 Per discussione Roman Neumüller
FYI: opening hot.openstreetmap.org just shows the root files -
should better redirect to weblog/ .
(favicon.* files have 0 bytes)

Roman

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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Henderson
On 03/06/10 13:31, Eraina and Richard jenkins wrote:

 2.At least two people suggested that an eeepc 701 would make a
 great GPS using Navit.  I'd love to find a howto for this because I
 have one sitting on my desk ... and I could do a simple PS to run it
 off the car electrics.  Mine is the 4 meg model ... currently running
 easy-peasy.

I'll just sound a note of caution about running an EeePC from 12 volts DC.

I've tried with my 1000H and my son's smaller version (700 series).  In 
both cases, the power light on the EeePC just rapidly switches between 
red and green.  I've tried from various 12v sources, including a 12v 
regulated power supply capable of delivering 6 Amps.

I've gone back to using the genuine AC power supply, with a 230v 
inverter when I use it in the car.

John H


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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione Eraina and Richard jenkins
On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 17:12:50 +1000
John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:

 On 03/06/10 13:31, Eraina and Richard jenkins wrote:
 
  2.  At least two people suggested that an eeepc 701 would
  make a great GPS using Navit.  I'd love to find a howto for this
  because I have one sitting on my desk ... and I could do a simple
  PS to run it off the car electrics.  Mine is the 4 meg model ...
  currently running easy-peasy.
 
 I'll just sound a note of caution about running an EeePC from 12
 volts DC.

+

John

Your email promted me to look on the back of my #701.  It says, inter
alia ... +9.5V DC 2.315A 22W.  Certainly NOT a good idea to just
connect it to a 12 volt battery.  Power needs to be regulated , capable
of at least 2.5A ... and protected against the auto environment ... with
some kind of anti-splat circuit!!!  

Maybe your idea of an inverter plus the usual 240V power supply ids a
good one!!


Thanks again

Richard


-- 
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Canberra,  AU
'linux on a Mac: delightful'
Skype:  richardirena


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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
On 3 June 2010 17:36, Eraina and Richard jenkins richardvk...@gmail.com wrote:
 Your email promted me to look on the back of my #701.  It says, inter
 alia ... +9.5V DC 2.315A 22W.  Certainly NOT a good idea to just
 connect it to a 12 volt battery.  Power needs to be regulated , capable
 of at least 2.5A ... and protected against the auto environment ... with
 some kind of anti-splat circuit!!!

 Maybe your idea of an inverter plus the usual 240V power supply ids a
 good one!!

I just checked mine, and it's also 9.5V, not sure why I thought it was
12V but I just use an inverter as well, but the draw is only 6W, my
laptop draws 45+ W

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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Henderson
On 03/06/10 17:45, John Smith wrote:

 I just checked mine, and it's also 9.5V, not sure why I thought it was
 12V but I just use an inverter as well, but the draw is only 6W, my
 laptop draws 45+ W

My 1000H says 12v, 3A, but wouldn't run properly from any 12v source I 
tried except the original power pack.

It was a couple of years ago, but whatever voltage my son's 700 series 
said on it was what I tried (within 1v, from a regulated supply). 
Likewise, same result.

Only a low power inverter is required.  My 150W inverter is several 
times the required capacity.

John H

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[talk-au] [SOTM] State of country Australia poster

2010-06-03 Per discussione Emilie Laffray
Hello,

This year, the State of the Map in Girona will make use of posters (A1
vertical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_paper_size ) for State of
Countries. Since last year, it has been a very interesting year for
Australia with some major imports like the boundaries and the introduction
of Nearmap. Obviously, it would be better if someone from Australia could
come to present it but I would be equally happy just to hang the poster for
people to see what is happening. The printing of the poster would be done
directly in Girona so it wouldn't be a problem if a PDF was to be sent.
I would love to see some of you just to put a face on the names that I see
and it is always better to meet in person.

Emilie Laffray
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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione Liz
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010, John Henderson wrote:
 I've gone back to using the genuine AC power supply, with a 230v 
 inverter when I use it in the car.
I've got an inverter - use it to charge the battery rather than constant use 
on the inverter

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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione Liz
On Thu, 3 Jun 2010, Eraina and Richard jenkins wrote:
 1.  Where is there a tutorial/howto/whatever for Navit.  For me
 it comes up with a blank screen ... and no maps.  I did attempt to
 download some maps for SE Australia ... so, how do I proceed from this
 point??
you need a suitable conf file
I'll send it separately


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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione Sam Couter
Eraina and Richard jenkins richardvk...@gmail.com wrote:
 1.Where is there a tutorial/howto/whatever for Navit.  For me
 it comes up with a blank screen ... and no maps.  I did attempt to
 download some maps for SE Australia ... so, how do I proceed from this
 point??

Unfortunately, configuring navit isn't exactly user-friendly. It
requires editing an XML file. There's no easy clicky-clicky interface.

http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Configuring_Navit

Also, acquiring and loading maps isn't user-friendly. You can download
navit maps from cloudmade, but you have to manually copy them into the
right location, referenced from the navit.xml file you edited earlier.
-- 
Sam Couter |  mailto:s...@couter.id.au
OpenPGP fingerprint:  A46B 9BB5 3148 7BEA 1F05  5BD5 8530 03AE DE89 C75C


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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione Ross Scanlon
 On Thu, 03 Jun 2010 17:12:50 +1000
 John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote:
 
  On 03/06/10 13:31, Eraina and Richard jenkins wrote:
  
   2.At least two people suggested that an eeepc 701 would
   make a great GPS using Navit.  I'd love to find a howto for this
   because I have one sitting on my desk ... and I could do a simple
   PS to run it off the car electrics.  Mine is the 4 meg model ...
   currently running easy-peasy.
  
  I'll just sound a note of caution about running an EeePC from 12
  volts DC.
 
 +
 
 John
 
 Your email promted me to look on the back of my #701.  It says, inter
 alia ... +9.5V DC 2.315A 22W.  Certainly NOT a good idea to just
 connect it to a 12 volt battery.  Power needs to be regulated , capable
 of at least 2.5A ... and protected against the auto environment ... with
 some kind of anti-splat circuit!!!  
 
 Maybe your idea of an inverter plus the usual 240V power supply ids a
 good one!!

Get one of these.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-12-24V-Car-Charger-Adapter-ASUS-Eee-PC-700-701-/120568116358?cmd=ViewItempt=AU_Laptop_Accessorieshash=item1c126b7486

I've been using one on my eeePC 900 for about 12months without a problem, in 
fact I bought two so that I've got one in each vehicle and don't have to look 
for it when I change cars.

Much better than having 240V floating around in the car.

If your using some other laptop then there are generic vehicle adapters for 
most available from jaycar, etc

-- 
Cheers
Ross

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Re: [talk-au] Making a laptop Into a Big-Screen GPS (cont.)

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Henderson
On 03/06/10 19:53, Liz wrote:

 I've got an inverter - use it to charge the battery rather than constant use
 on the inverter

I used my EeePC 1000H a lot, and had to replace the battery after about 
12 months.  It was expensive.

So now I usually run it with the battery removed, especially if mains is 
available.  I have my car's cigarette lighter socket wired to be 
permanently on, although some inverters might drop out when the car's 
started motor is engaged.

I agree with Ross about it being better not to have mains voltages 
operating in the passenger compartment.  I also note that the seller of 
his eBay-referenced car adaptor has a 12v output version available for 
the 1000H.  I'll be getting one to try.

John H

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[talk-au] Object ID Permenence

2010-06-03 Per discussione John Smith
Thanks to David and James (on this list) and Anthony from the main
talk list for feedback, we've come up with a proposal on giving
objects in the OSM DB one or more unique IDs which unlike regular OSM
IDs can be shifted from nodes to areas as they are changed.

This proposal will probably not have much benefit for people on this
list, unless you run a 3rd party website that uses OSM IDs to
reference objects on OSM.

However I thought I'd put the ID out there in case anyone has some
ideas that were over looked.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/UUID

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Re: [Talk-de] motorway und motorway_link um destinatio n-tag ergänzen

2010-06-03 Per discussione Bernd Wurst
Am Mittwoch 02 Juni 2010, 20:39:55 schrieb steffterra:
 Das Fernziel ist jedoch nur eines dieser junctions

Noch nichtmal das.

Fernziele sind meistens Städte gewisser Größe, die mehrere Autobahnabfahrten 
haben (oder gleich per Kreuz mit einer Bundesstraße/lokalen Autobahn 
angebunden sind).
Es gibt z.B. meines Wissens keine Autobahnabfahrten Hamburg oder 
Stuttgart.

Gruß, Bernd

-- 
Vorstellungskraft ist wichtiger als Wissen.  -  Albert Einstein


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Re: [Talk-de] motorway und motorway_link um desti nation-tag ergänzen

2010-06-03 Per discussione Chris66
Am 03.06.2010 00:50, schrieb steffterra:

 Der ref-Tag gibt vor, dass man ref=A 7, E 22 taggen soll - also Komma und 
 Leerzeichen. 

Oha, ich dachte es sei Usus (und habe es bisher immer so in den Daten
gesehen), bei mehreren Values pro Tag das Semikolon zu benutzen.

Chris


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[Talk-de] Strassenbreite

2010-06-03 Per discussione Chris66
Moin,

die Doku zum Tag width schweigt sich leider aus, oder hier die
physikalische Breite gemeint ist oder die Breite zwischen
den Begrenzungslinien (falls vorhanden).

Chris


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Re: [Talk-de] Strassenbreite

2010-06-03 Per discussione Jochen Topf
On Thu, Jun 03, 2010 at 09:55:05AM +0200, Chris66 wrote:
 die Doku zum Tag width schweigt sich leider aus, oder hier die
 physikalische Breite gemeint ist oder die Breite zwischen
 den Begrenzungslinien (falls vorhanden).

Und wenn es letzteres ist, ist es dann inklusive der Breite der
Begrenzungslinien oder ohne? Fragen über Fragen!

Jochen
-- 
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[Talk-de] OpenRouteService schon wieder gehackt?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Christian Knorr
Hallo zusammen,
beim zweiten Anlauf lief es. Beim ersten Versuch ors [1] zu öffnen war die 
Seite leer/weiß, im Quelltext aber was unschönes zum Thema Downloads - möchte 
ich jetzt nicht näher drauf eingehen.
Irre ich, oder kommt das öfter vor? Hatte es ja hier auch schon ein paar Mal 
gelesen.

MfG, Chris..

[1] http://openrouteservice.org/
-- 
Mein kleiner, persönlicher OSM-Duden:
+1 - bin Deiner Meinung
-1 - sehe ich nicht so
AIO - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:All_in_one_Garmin_Map

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Re: [Talk-de] OpenRouteService schon wieder gehackt?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Chris66
Am 03.06.2010 10:31, schrieb Christian Knorr:

 beim zweiten Anlauf lief es. Beim ersten Versuch ors [1] zu öffnen war die 
 Seite leer/weiß, im Quelltext aber was unschönes zum Thema Downloads - möchte 
 ich jetzt nicht näher drauf eingehen.
 Irre ich, oder kommt das öfter vor? Hatte es ja hier auch schon ein paar Mal 
 gelesen.

Hi,
die korrekte Adresse lautet:

http://129.206.229.146/openrouteservice/

Chris


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Re: [Talk-de] OpenRouteService schon wieder gehackt?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Schorschi

 die korrekte Adresse lautet:
 http://129.206.229.146/openrouteservice/

naja ... korrekt ist die andere Adresse auch - aber wohl eben schon wieder 
gehackt

Schusch

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Re: [Talk-de] Strassenbreite

2010-06-03 Per discussione Martin Simon
Am 3. Juni 2010 09:55 schrieb Chris66 chris66...@gmx.de:
 Moin,

 die Doku zum Tag width schweigt sich leider aus, oder hier die
 physikalische Breite gemeint ist oder die Breite zwischen
 den Begrenzungslinien (falls vorhanden).

Aus unserer Praxis heraus, daß wir (die meisten von uns) mit ways
ganze baulich nicht getrennte Fahrbahnkörper (und nicht einzelne
Fahrstreifen) abbilden, würde ich width für die Breite der ganzen
Fahrbahn halten (und verwende es auch so).

Die verkehrsrechtlich nutzbare Breite könnte dann ja mit width:legal
oder etwas ähnlichem angegeben werden...

Gruß,

Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Strassenbreite

2010-06-03 Per discussione Gerry Light
Am 03.06.2010 09:55, schrieb Chris66:
 die Doku zum Tag width schweigt sich leider aus, oder hier die
 physikalische Breite gemeint ist oder die Breite zwischen
 den Begrenzungslinien (falls vorhanden).


Ich würde von der physikalischen Breite ausgehen, weil es auch andere 
Objekte wie z.B. Bäche gibt, wo das width-Tag so verwendet wird. Da 
fände ich es sehr inkonsistent und verwirrend, wenn es bei Straßen 
anders wäre und plötzlich eine gesetzliche Einschränkung gemeint wäre.

Grüße, Gerry

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Re: [Talk-de] Strassenbreite

2010-06-03 Per discussione Gerry Light
Am 03.06.2010 11:45, schrieb Martin Simon:
 Die verkehrsrechtlich nutzbare Breite könnte dann ja mit width:legal
 oder etwas ähnlichem angegeben werden...


Das wäre IMHO eigentlich besser bei den einzelnen Fahrspuren aufgehoben; 
da sich da keine Einigung abzeichnet, kann man es derzeit praktisch nur 
angeben, wenn alle Spuren gleich breit sind. Ansonsten gibt es ja noch 
maxwidth=*, das üblicherweise bei Beschilderung verwendet wird und 
somit in erster Linie eine legislative Beschränkung definiert (natürlich 
bekommen derlei gesetzeswidrige Fahrer meistens auch Probleme mit der 
Physik).

Grüße, Gerry

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Re: [Talk-de] OpenRouteService schon wieder gehackt?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Alexander Zipf
Dear all,

Leider bin ich erst jetzt dazu gekommen den für den Domain-Umzug 
benötigten Authorization.Ident Code beim bisherigen Provider Evanzo zu 
beantragen. Ich hoffe Evanzo reagiert rasch...
Ich war davon ausgegangen, dass die damaligen Probleme seitens des 
Providers gelöst seien. Da sich diese Hoffnung nicht bestätigt, ziehe 
ich unsere Domains nun schnellstmöglich zu einem etablierten Hoster um. 
Unsere eigentlichen Server sind nicht betroffen, sondern es betrifft 
nur die Weiterleitung des Domain-Namens auf unseren Server.
Damit sollte eine URL wie

http://129.206.229.146/openrouteservice/

sicher sein. Ich bitte vielmals um Entschuldigung für die Umstände, 
meine Blauäugigkeit und die Verzögerung beim Providerumzug.

beste Grüße
a. zipf
http://giscience.uni-hd.de

Am 03.06.2010 10:31, schrieb Christian Knorr:

   beim zweiten Anlauf lief es. Beim ersten Versuch ors [1] zu ?ffnen war die
   Seite leer/wei?, im Quelltext aber was unsch?nes zum Thema Downloads - 
  m?chte
   ich jetzt nicht n?her drauf eingehen.
   Irre ich, oder kommt das ?fter vor? Hatte es ja hier auch schon ein paar 
  Mal
   gelesen.

Hi,
die korrekte Adresse lautet:

http://129.206.229.146/openrouteservice/

Chris



-- 
---
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 Chair of GIScience
 Department of Geography, University of Heidelberg

 z...@uni-heidelberg.de
 http://giscience.uni-hd.de

 Berliner Straße 48, D-69120 Heidelberg, Germany
 fon: +49(0)6221 / 54 5533  //  fax: +49(0)6221 / 54 4996


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Re: [Talk-de] Strassenbreite

2010-06-03 Per discussione Wolfgang
Hallo,
Am Donnerstag 03 Juni 2010 09:55:05 schrieb Chris66:
 Moin,
 
 die Doku zum Tag width schweigt sich leider aus, oder hier die
 physikalische Breite gemeint ist oder die Breite zwischen
 den Begrenzungslinien (falls vorhanden).
 

das Thema hatten wir schon mehrfach. Wir sind uns nicht einmal einig, ob die 
Breite der Fahrbahn oder der ganzen Straße ggf. mit Fußweg gemeint ist - ohne 
jetzt eine Meinung äußern zu wollen.

Gruß, Wolfgang

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr

2010-06-03 Per discussione Wolfgang
Hallo,
Am Freitag 28 Mai 2010 22:05:36 schrieb Sven Geggus:
 André Reichelt andr...@online.de wrote:
  Da hast Du etwas missverstanden. Es ist nicht NICHT änderbar sondern
  Änderungen müssen zunächst freigeschaltet werden. Im Prinzip wird also
  so lange weiterhin der alte Versionsstand ausgegeben bis der neue
  Versionsstand von genügend anderen Mitgliedern bestätigt wurde.
 
 Um Gottes willen nicht diesen Unfug den es in der Wikipedia seit
 neuestem gibt. Manche Leute sind gleicher als andere...
 
 Nein danke!
 

+1

Als Alternative und Lösung auch für andere Fälle könnte man vielleicht 
überlegen, ob man einen Node nicht mit absoluter, sondern mit relativer 
Position zu vorhandenen Daten, Bsp. Straßenachse, angeben könnte.

Verschiebe ich eine Straße um ein paar Meter, weil ich das inzwischen besser 
messen kann als früher,  müssen alle Bushaltestellen, Müllcontainer, ... 
manuell verschoben werden. Die Info, dass der Hydrant oder weiß ich was 8m von 
der Ecke A/B-Straße und 6m aus der Achse liegt, beschreibt seine Lage sowieso 
besser und kann benutzt werden, um die neue Position automatisch zu berechnen.

Vielleicht ist er dann immer noch absolut um 4m verkehrt, aber der 
Feuerwehrhäuptling wird seinen Wasserspender kaum nach absoluten UTM-
Koordinaten suchen, sondern in der Regel vor Hausnummer xy.

Wir hätten dann eine innere Genauigkeit, die wir mit unseren Methoden 
wesentlich genauer hinkriegen als die absolute, und die für den Benutzer 
draußen genau das ist, was er braucht.

Gruß, Wolfgang

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Re: [Talk-de] OSM für Feuerwehr - Signaturen?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Wolfgang
Hallo,
Am Samstag 29 Mai 2010 01:41:21 schrieb Florian Gross:

 
 Es wäre denkbar, daß die Positionen auch von OSM stammen, aber gerade
 Daten für den Rettungsdienst (eben sowas wie Hydranten) sollte man IMO
 in einer eigenen Datenbank vorhalten.
 

was nützt es, die Koordinaten des Hydranten mit Schlüssel, Löschsicherung, 
GPG, automatischer Wiederherstellung (fehlt noch was? ;-) ) zu sichern, wenn 
die zugehörige Straße - korrekt oder nicht - um 15m verschoben wird und der 
Hydrant jetzt nur noch im Fahrradkeller zugängig ist. Mit dem GPG-Schlüssel 
kommt die Feuerwehr da auch nicht rein. :-)

Gruß, Wolfgang

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Re: [Talk-de] DOP mit Bodenauflösung 2m für Hausu mrisse?

2010-06-03 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 2. Juni 2010 17:14 schrieb Manuel Reimer manuel.s...@nurfuerspam.de:
 | Das Entnehmen von Hausumrissen aus der amtlichen Karte stellt eine
 | Entnahme aus einer für die Vermessungsverwaltung geschützten
 | Datenbank iSv §  87 a Urheberrechtsgesetz dar.
 | Dies gilt auch, wenn die Informationen nicht 1:1, sondern in
 | vereinfachter Form übertragen werden. Sei es, dass eine
 | 1:1-Übertragung technisch nicht möglich ist oder aus
 | Vereinfachungsgründen nicht gewünscht ist (Generalisierung).
 | Entscheidend ist, dass die Informationen aus der Karte in insgesamt
 | wesentlichem Umfang (also viele Gebäude, ganze Ortschaft, nicht nur
 | eine Handvoll) oder systematisch genutzt werden. Eine systematische
 | Entnahme liegt inbesondere dann vor, wenn die Informationen entnommen
 | werden, um ein Folgeprodukt wie OpenStreetMap aufzubauen und
 | öffentlich zugänglich zu machen.


bezog sich das auf amtliche Karten oder Luftbilder? m.E. nur auf
Karten, aber wie die anderen schon geschrieben haben: unter den
Bedingungen (Kosten) ist das keine Kooperationschance sondern eine
Kooperationsschande ;-)

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Strassenbreite

2010-06-03 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 3. Juni 2010 11:45 schrieb Martin Simon grenzde...@gmail.com:
 Die verkehrsrechtlich nutzbare Breite könnte dann ja mit width:legal
 oder etwas ähnlichem angegeben werden...


bzw. die Breite der einzelnen Spuren angeben. Bei Fußwegen gibt es ja
meistens gar keine Streifen, und manchmal auch sonst nur unklare
Ränder (z.B. bei unpaved). Bei Standstreifen macht das ja durchaus
ziemlich was aus, wobei die Zahl der Spuren bei Autobahnen viel
interessanter ist als die Breite in Metern.

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] DOP mit Bodenauflösung 2m für Hausu mrisse?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Manuel Reimer
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
 bezog sich das auf amtliche Karten oder Luftbilder? m.E. nur auf
 Karten, aber wie die anderen schon geschrieben haben: unter den
 Bedingungen (Kosten) ist das keine Kooperationschance sondern eine
 Kooperationsschande ;-)

Nein, es bezog sich auf die Luftbilder. Laut Aussage des Vermessungsamts 
würden die angeblich reichen und ich bräuchte keinen Zugriff auf die 
amtlichen Karten.

Der Pixelwust, den ich als 2m DOP kenne, ist aber für Hausumrisse meiner 
Meinung nach unbrauchbar.

Gruß

Manuel


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[Talk-de] Trennzeichen bei Aufzählungen im Wert eines Tags (war: motorway und motorway_link um destination-tag ergänzen)

2010-06-03 Per discussione steffterra

Am 03.06.2010 um 09:43 schrieb Chris66:

 Am 03.06.2010 00:50, schrieb steffterra:
 
 Der ref-Tag gibt vor, dass man ref=A 7, E 22 taggen soll - also Komma und 
 Leerzeichen. 
 
 Oha, ich dachte es sei Usus (und habe es bisher immer so in den Daten
 gesehen), bei mehreren Values pro Tag das Semikolon zu benutzen.

Keine Ahnung, vlt. ist auch das Komma mit Leerzeichen ungewöhnlich und man 
sollte auch beim ref eher Semikolon und kein Leerzeichen verwenden? 
Weiss da jemand mehr darüber, was bei anderen Tags üblich ist?

Danke im voraus, 
steffterra
 
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Re: [Talk-de] motorway und motorway_link um desti nation-tag ergänzen

2010-06-03 Per discussione steffterra

Am 03.06.2010 um 08:44 schrieb Bernd Wurst:

 Am Mittwoch 02 Juni 2010, 20:39:55 schrieb steffterra:
 Das Fernziel ist jedoch nur eines dieser junctions
 
 Noch nichtmal das.
 
 Fernziele sind meistens Städte gewisser Größe, die mehrere Autobahnabfahrten 
 haben (oder gleich per Kreuz mit einer Bundesstraße/lokalen Autobahn 
 angebunden sind).
 Es gibt z.B. meines Wissens keine Autobahnabfahrten Hamburg oder 
 Stuttgart.

glaube ich auch. Hast Recht. Dennoch werden diese Fernziele als Städtenamen auf 
den Auffahrten genannt. die Abfahrten sind dann meist genauer bezeichnet, schon 
weil es an diesen Fernzielen meist mehrere Abfahrten gibt (xy Nord, xy Süd, mit 
Namens-Zusatz der nä. Ortschaft in der Nähe der Abfahrt, etc.)

Kennt ihr eine Liste/Datenbank, in der die Auffahrten mit ihren 
Fernziel-Städtenamen (Zeichen Nr. 430, und für AB-Kreuze Nr.448) gesammelt sind?

Danke,

steffterra
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Re: [Talk-de] Garminkarten Ausschnitte

2010-06-03 Per discussione Florian Gross
Jochen Topf glaubte zu wissen:

 Hab mich grad gestern mit Sven Geggus drüber unterhalten, ob man das
 Zusammenbauen irgendwie noch einfacher machen kann. Hintergrund ist, dass der
 Server, wo man die AIO-Garmin-Karten runterladen kann, total ausgelastet ist
 mir den Riesen-Downloads, die die Leute immerzu machen.

Um wie viel Traffic geht es da eigentlich zur Zeit?

 Wenn es ein sehr
 einfach zu benutzendes Tool gäbe, dann bräuchten die Leute nicht mehr so
 häufig ganz Europa runterladen. Ich stelle mir das so vor, dass man angeben
 kann, welchen Ausschnitt man braucht, das Tool stellt dann fest, welche Teile
 gebraucht werden, lädt die runter, baut sie zusammen und gibt einem eine
 fertige Datei.

Klingt verlockend.

flo
-- 
Waas???ßßß Ihr habt einen
GEMEINSAMEN Vornamen?? Welchen denn??
Karl-Hubert, wobei Florian die erste Hälfte und Florian die andere hat.
  [Bernd Brodesser und Martin Leidig in suse-talk]


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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: Reihenfolge der Ebenen

2010-06-03 Per discussione Florian Gross
Chris66 glaubte zu wissen:
 Am 01.06.2010 10:44, schrieb André Joost:

 Es steht dir doch frei, erst die gpx oder erst die osm-Daten zu laden.

 Ja, aber mein Workflow ist in der Regel, dass ich erst die gpx
 lade, da dann der passende Ausschnitt schon eingestellt ist.

Den für dich passenden Tip hast du gelöscht:

In der Box mit denen Ebenen gibt es einen Pfeil nach oben
und einen nach unten. Mit denen Verschiebst du die Ebenen
wie es dir gefällt.

flo
-- 
 Da waren die Männchen aber noch weiss und die Leitern auch ja! In
der neuen Version sollen ja echter  Aussehen. Genau wie in der
neuen Pitfall Version, die übrigena Gaga ist. [WoKo in dafb]


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Re: [Talk-de] OpenRouteService schon wieder gehackt?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Christian Knorr
Am Donnerstag 03 Juni 2010 10:39:37 schrieb Chris66:

 Hi,
 die korrekte Adresse lautet:

 http://129.206.229.146/openrouteservice/

Das kenn' schon :/ mehrfach. Fragt sich nur wie lange das noch die korrekte 
Adresse ist.
Außerdem kann ich mir das nicht merken. Ist ja auch ne doofe Adresse,
da ist http://openrouteservice.org/ schon einprägsamer.

 Chris
MfG, Chris.

-- 
Mein kleiner, persönlicher OSM-Duden:
+1 - bin Deiner Meinung
-1 - sehe ich nicht so
AIO - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:All_in_one_Garmin_Map

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Re: [Talk-de] Trennzeichen bei Aufzählungen im Wert eines Tags (war: motorway und motorway_link um d estination-tag ergänzen )

2010-06-03 Per discussione Bernd Wurst
Am Donnerstag 03 Juni 2010, 19:43:36 schrieb steffterra:
 Keine Ahnung, vlt. ist auch das Komma mit Leerzeichen ungewöhnlich und man
 sollte auch beim ref eher Semikolon und kein Leerzeichen verwenden?  Weiss
 da jemand mehr darüber, was bei anderen Tags üblich ist?

Sowohl bei OSM als auch bei fast allen anderen Dingen bei denen ich bisher 
programmiertechnisch mit mehreren Werten in einer Zeichenkette zu tun hatte, 
war das Semikolon das Trennzeichen der Wahl.

Ein Trennzeichen sollte eben das sein, *ein* Zeichen das im normalen Text 
möglichst selten vorkommt (und dabei halt doch kein obskures Sonderzeichen 
ist). Das Semikolon kommt in Namen und Bezeichnungen quasi nie vor und es 
wurde daher grundsätzlich bei den mir bisher bekannten OSM-Tags als Trenner 
für mehrere Werte benutzt. Bei CSV-Dateien kommt ja (anders als der Name 
suggeriert) auch in den meisten Fällen das Semikolon zum Einsatz.

Kurzum: Ich gehe davon aus, dass die Verwendung von Komma und Leerzeichen im 
genannten Wiki-Artikel wenig diskutiert und fundiert gewählt wurde sondern 
eine schlichte ich schreib mal was auf-Aktion war. Ich würde ganz stark dazu 
raten, überall Semikolon zu benutzen, das ist vergleichsweise sehr weit 
verbreitet.

Gruß, Bernd

-- 
Skeptiker sind jene Menschen, die einfach nicht an die
friedliche Nutzung der Atombombe glauben wollen.
  -  Werner Mitsch (dt. Aphoristiker)


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[Talk-de] OT: Garmin eTrex Legend kaputt

2010-06-03 Per discussione Bernd Wurst
Hallo.

Ich habe eine Frage, die hier eigentlich Off-Topic ist aber ich erwarte hier 
Leute die mir helfen können. Antworten bitte an mich privat.

Ich besitze seit einiger Zeit ein Garmin eTrex Legend HCx, das ich auch im 
Auto benutze. Neulich ging es an einer Autobahnraststätte beim Abstellen der 
Zündung ganz normal nach 30 Sekunden aus, danach aber nicht mehr an.

Seither kann ich das Gerät nur noch mit Akkus/Batterien betreiben. Sobald ich 
irgend eine externe Stromversorgung anschließe (Autokabel oder normales USB-
Kabel), geht es sofort aus und lässt sich erst wieder einschalten, wenn ich 
das Kabel abziehe.

So macht natürlich der Betrieb keinen Spaß mehr, insbesondere da ich jetzt 
keine Möglichkeit mehr habe, Routen oder Wegpunkte auf das Gerät zu laden.
Kennt jemand einen solchen Fehler? Ist das was behebbares? Fällt jemandem eine 
kreative Lösung ein, wie man das Gerät noch irgendwie per USB verbinden kann 
ohne dass dort Spannung anliegt?

Da ich spätestens nachdem der Hard-Reset nichts genützt hat nicht daran 
glaube, dass es ein selbst behebbares Problem ist, gleich noch eine Frage: 
Macht es Sinn, ein Gerät zur (nicht-Garantie-)Reparatur zu Garmin einzusenden? 
Hat das schonmal jemand gemacht? Da ich auf eine Überspannung vom Auto-
Ladekabel tippe und selbiges ein 08/15-Ramschartikel und kein Garmin-Zubehör 
ist, fällt ein Garantiefall wohl weg. :)

Gruß, Bernd

-- 
Erfahrung heisst gar nichts. Man kann eine Sache auch 35 Jahre lang
schlecht machen.  -  Kurt Tucholsky (dt. Schriftsteller)


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Re: [Talk-de] MTB Slippy-Map / Onlinekarte der openmtbmap

2010-06-03 Per discussione godofglow

Hallo zusammen.

Ich hab mal ne Frage zu der hstore:

Ich komm gerade nicht wirklich weiter.
Ich hab ein wenig beim parking abgeschaut und wollte jetzt mal ein mtb-tag
auslesen:
Layer name=scale status=on srs=osm2pgsql_projection;
StyleNamemtb:scale/StyleName
Datasource
Parameter name=table
(select way,
(tags-'mtb:scale') as 
mtb:scale, 
from refix;_line 
WHERE (tags ? 'mtb:scale') 
) as roads


/Parameter
datasource-settings;
/Datasource
/Layer

Will aber nicht funktionieren.

Habe ihr eine Idee?

Danke!

Gruß
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/MTB-Slippy-Map-Onlinekarte-der-openmtbmap-tp5112824p5136402.html
Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-de] motorway und motorway_link um desti nation-tag ergänzen

2010-06-03 Per discussione Bernd Wurst
Hallo.

Am Donnerstag 03 Juni 2010, 19:48:40 schrieb steffterra:
 Kennt ihr eine Liste/Datenbank, in der die Auffahrten mit ihren
 Fernziel-Städtenamen (Zeichen Nr. 430, und für AB-Kreuze Nr.448) gesammelt
 sind?

Es ist nicht exakt das was du suchst, aber die Fotos auf 
http://www.autobahn-bilder.de/
sind dafür gut geeignet.

Auf den Autobahnen stehen oft Wegweiser, wohin es auf der Autobahn grade aus 
weiter geht. Oder es stehen an der Seite Schilder, wie weit es zu den 
Fernzielen noch ist. Das kannst du bei den Auffahrten in der Region dann auch 
als Fernziel eintragen.

Und falls es nicht identisch ist: Es ist wesentlich besser als nichts und 
jeder kann es ändern wenn er es besser weiß.

Gruß, Bernd

-- 
Windows Error 005: Multitasking attempted. System confused.


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Re: [Talk-de] Trennzeichen bei Aufzählungen im Wert eines Tags (war: motorway und motorway_link um d estination-tag ergänzen )

2010-06-03 Per discussione Gerry Light

Am 03.06.2010 20:33, schrieb Bernd Wurst:

 Ich würde ganz stark dazu raten, überall Semikolon zu benutzen, das
 ist vergleichsweise sehr weit verbreitet.


+1

nicht nur verbreitet, sondern auch dokumentiert, siehe z.B. auch 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Faq#What_shall_I_do_for_roads_that_have_multiple_values_for_a_tag.3F


Die Frage ist, wie man das Komma wieder kleinkriegt... Problematisch 
dabei ist vor allem, dass es sich wohl in anderen Fremdsprachen ins Wiki 
eingenistet hat. Wenn man es im englischen korrigiert, bleibt z.B. immer 
noch der russische Artikel.


Grüße, Gerry
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Re: [Talk-de] OT: Garmin eTrex Legend kaputt

2010-06-03 Per discussione Torsten Leistikow
Moin,

von solchen Effekten habe ich bisher nichts gehoert und deshalb kann ich auch
nicht wirklich eine Loesung anbieten.

Hast du mal probiert, dass Geraet ohne Speicherkarte zu betreiben?

Ohne USB-Verbindung wirst du wahrscheinlich auch nicht versuchen koennen, die
Firmware neu aufzuspielen.

Von deiner Beschreibung her klingt aber ansonsten deine Einschaetzung schon ganz
richtig, dass da wohl hardwaremaessig was kaputt gegangen ist. Ich wuerde
einfach mal Garmin fragen, was sie zu den Effekten sagen, und dabei grosszuegig
unerwaehnt lassen, bei welcher Gelegenheit das Geraet kaputt gegangen ist.

Gruss
Torsten

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[Talk-de] OT: Wie (lange) Tracks / Routen auf Garmin etrex Vista HCx kopieren

2010-06-03 Per discussione Andreas Tille
Hallo,

sicher etwas OT, aber ich hoffe mal, daß das Problem hier schon auftrat und im
Endergebnis will ich ja einen Track für OSM erstellen ...

Folgendes Problem: Ich möchte die Strecke der Harzquerung von
Wernigerode nach Nordhausen abfahren, um für diesen Lauf eine Relation
anzulegen.  Einige Wegteile sind auch noch gar nicht gemappt.

Auf gpsies.com habe ich zum Vergleich Route und Track heruntergeladen und
wollte diese per

  gpsbabel -t -i gpx -f trackfile.gpx -o garmin -F  usb:
  gpsbabel -r -i gpx -f routefile.gpx -o garmin -F  usb:

auf mein Garmin Etrex Vista HCx kopieren.  Wenn ich das so mache
bekomme ich jeweils vom Gerät die Meldung:

Track gekürzt  bzw.  Route gekürzt

Das finde ich ärgerlich, denn eigene Tracks können doch sehr wohl länger
als dir knapp 4200 Punkte sein.  Ich habe vor dem kopieren auch alle
noch auf dem Gerät vorhandenen Tracks gelöscht, sodaß der zu wenig
Speicher nicht das Problem sein sollte.

Ich hab's auch mal per

   gpsbabel -i gpx -f trackfile.gpx -x simplify,count=523 -o gpx -F 
track_ein_achtel_der_punkte.gpx

versucht - aber auch das war dem Garmin noch etwas viel, obwohl nun
doch schon Nordhausen in Sicht kommt.

Die Frage ist nun: wiemacht Ihr das, wenn Ihr mal längere Tracks
auf das GPS haben wollt, als so ohne weiteres geht.

Viele Grüße

 Andreas.

-- 
http://fam-tille.de

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Re: [Talk-de] OT: Garmin eTrex Legend kaputt

2010-06-03 Per discussione Friedhelm Schmidt
Hallo Bernd,

opfere doch einfach ein USB-Kabel, entferne Isolierung und Abschirmung 
irgendwo vorsichtig und trenne die +5V Leitung auf.

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Usb_kabel_beschriftet.jpgfiletimestamp=20080530215106

Übrigens: Wenn mir Kunden Geräte zur Garntiereparatur zurück schicken, 
schreiben sie mir in der Regel nicht, welche Umstände einen Garantiefall 
ausschließen könnten ;-)

-fri-


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Re: [Talk-de] OT: Wie (lange) Tracks / Routen auf Garmin etrex Vista HCx kopieren

2010-06-03 Per discussione Rainer Kluge
Hallo,

Am 03.06.2010 22:13, schrieb Andreas Tille:
 Ich hab's auch mal per
 
gpsbabel -i gpx -f trackfile.gpx -x simplify,count=523 -o gpx -F 
 track_ein_achtel_der_punkte.gpx
 
 versucht - aber auch das war dem Garmin noch etwas viel, obwohl nun
 doch schon Nordhausen in Sicht kommt.
 

Ein Track, der auf das Gerät geladen wird kann maximal 500 Punkte enthalten. Es
gibt auch einen Trick, Tracks mit mehr als 500 Punkten zu laden:

http://blog.gpsies.com/article/143/track-mit-mehr-als-500-punkten-auf-den-garmin-etrex-speichern

Aber ich habe das noch nie ausprobiert. Für Tagestouren haben mir bisher die 500
Punkte immer augereicht. Bei Mehrtagestouren mache ich eben einen Track pro Tag.

Ich finde zu viele Trackpunkte ohnehin beim Ablaufen/fahren des Tracks eher
störend. Man muss ja nicht unbedingt jede kleine Richtungsänderung im Track
abbilden.

Gruß
Rainer


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Re: [Talk-de] OpenRouteService schon wieder gehackt?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Johann H. Addicks
Am 03.06.2010 10:31, schrieb Christian Knorr:
 im Quelltext aber was unschönes zum Thema Downloads - möchte ich jetzt nicht 
 näher drauf eingehen.

Ich gehe inzwischen davon aus, dass es zum Geschäftsmodell von Evanzo 
gehört, diese DNS-Fehler nicht zu verhindern, sondern dafür am Erlös 
beteiligt zu werden.
Dass Openroutservice.org von Nutzern einer Symantec-Suite wegen 
Phishing-Domain-Alarms nicht angesurft werden kann, das schrieb ich ja 
schon vor einigen Wochen.

-jha-


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Re: [Talk-de] OT: Garmin eTrex Legend kaputt

2010-06-03 Per discussione Johann H. Addicks
Ich habe keine Ahnung von was für einem KFZ-Kabel Du dort sprichst.
Werde da etwas konkreter.
Hast Du es mal mit einem Standard-Mini-USB-Kabel am PC versucht?

-jha-


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Re: [Talk-de] OpenRouteService schon wieder gehackt?

2010-06-03 Per discussione Sven Geggus
Alexander Zipf z...@uni-heidelberg.de wrote:

 Da sich diese Hoffnung nicht bestätigt, ziehe ich unsere Domains
 nun schnellstmöglich zu einem etablierten Hoster um.

Ich registriere Domains entweder über
http://www.domaindiscount24.com/ oder über http://www.schlundtech.de/

Beides empfehlenswert wenn man das Zeug im wesentlichen selber machen
will!

Ich würde empfehlen auf einen Redirector komplett zu verzichten und die
ORS Domain direkt auf eure IP zeigen zu lassen. Bei dd24 geht beides.

Gruss

Sven

-- 
Ich fürchte mich nicht vor der Rückkehr der Faschisten in der Maske der
Faschisten, sondern vor der Rückkehr der Faschisten in der Maske der
Demokraten (Theodor W. Adorno)
/me is gig...@ircnet, http://sven.gegg.us/ on the Web

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Re: [Talk-de] MTB Slippy-Map / Onlinekarte der openmtbmap

2010-06-03 Per discussione Peter Körner
Am 03.06.2010 20:46, schrieb godofglow:
(select way,
   (tags-'mtb:scale') as mtb:scale,
   from refix;_line
   WHERE (tags ? 'mtb:scale')
 ) as roads

bitte teste deine Queries vorher mit psql:

psql -h sql-mapnik -d osm_mapnik

Das Query hat zwei Fehler:
1. das Komma nach dem mtb:scale
2. die Entität refix; sollte wohl besser prefix; lauten

Lg, Peter

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[Talk-de] Spezialkarte Trampen

2010-06-03 Per discussione Patrick Hanft
Hallo liebe Community,

als Mapper, der zwar schon ein ganzes Weilchen dabei ist, in letzter Zeit 
aber mehr mit anderen Dingen beschäftigt ist, bin ich durch die Anfrage 
einiger Freunde zu einer mit OSM hoffentlich zu lösenden Aufgabe gekommen.

Das Projekt ist eine Deutschlandkarte, die explizit fürs Tramping genutzt 
werden soll. Das hat dann einige Spezialanforderungen:

* Das ganze soll auf einem Flyer landen, und um nützlich und detailliert 
genug zu sein ist derzeit ein Druck in A3 geplant.

* Im Wesentlichen sollte möglichst ausschließlich das Autobahnnetz darauf zu 
sehen sein, im Gegensatz zu der Darstellung im Wiki beim Autobahnprojekt 
wäre es aber schön, wenn auch die Nummern der Autobahnen gerendert würden.

* Zur Orientierung böten sich noch die Namen größerer Städte an, das müsste 
man mal gucken…

* Idealerweise – und ich glaube hier dürfte die Hauptschwierigkeit liegen – 
würde diese Karte auch alle Autobahnraststätten enthalten, denn diese sind, 
so hab ich mir sagen lassen, fundamental wichtig beim Trampen, fürs 
Umsteigen und Weiterkommen.

Das mit den Raststätten dürfte deshalb wohl ein Problem sein, weil – soweit 
ich es zumindest bisher sehen konnte – die bei uns eingezeichneten 
Raststätten nirgendwo eine eigene semantische Kennzeichnung haben, sondern 
in aller Regel nur eine Sammlung von mehreren highway=service, Parkplätzen, 
evtl. WCs, Tankstellen und Restaurants sind, aber nicht als solche irgendwie 
getaggt und so dürfte es schwierig werden, das in einem niedrigen Zoom-Level 
irgendwie zu rendern.

Hat vielleicht jemand für dieses Problem eine Idee? Falls sich ein 
sinnvoller Tagging-Vorschlag fände, dann wäre es vielleicht überlegenswert, 
diese Raststätten mit einem eigenen Tag zu versehen. Wäre zwar eine 
Fleißarbeit, aber noch hab ich ein paar Wochen Zeit und vielleicht wäre 
jemand interessiert zu helfen? ;)

Dann noch allgemein eine Frage zur Herangehensweise: Ich habe bisher 
eigentlich noch kaum Erfahrung mit eigenem Mapnik-Rendering, würde mir das 
aber mal anschauen. Gibt es von Seiten derjenigen, die etwas mehr Erfahrung 
mit Spezialrenderings haben vielleicht noch andere Herangehensweisen? 
Deutschlandkarte und Mapnik, ich weiß natürlich nicht, wie gut das in so 
niedrigen Zoom-Leveln funktioniert…

Ich wäre prinzipiell für jegliche Tipps und Tricks und Hinweise dankbar. 
Bisschen Zeit bleibt noch, aber wäre schon cool, wenn ich sowas innerhalb 
ein paar Wochen auf die Reihe bringen könnte.

Liebe Grüße aus Würzburg,
Patrick.


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Re: [Talk-de] OT: Wie (lange) Tracks / Routen auf Garmin etrex Vista HCx kopieren

2010-06-03 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 3. Juni 2010 22:28 schrieb Rainer Kluge rklug...@web.de:
 Ich finde zu viele Trackpunkte ohnehin beim Ablaufen/fahren des Tracks eher
 störend. Man muss ja nicht unbedingt jede kleine Richtungsänderung im Track
 abbilden.


stimmt, wenn man nicht gerade kartiert braucht man die Details nicht unbedingt.

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Spezialkarte Trampen

2010-06-03 Per discussione aighes

Hallo,
wenn du nur eine Bilddatei haben möchtest, die gedruckt werden kann würde
ich Maperitive oder dessen vorgänger Kosmos vorschlagen.
Denen kannst du ein Style-File geben und dann rendern die Programme dir die
OSM-Daten.

Dabei wirst du auf 2 Probleme stoßen, die sich aber lösen lassen.
a) Style-File erstellen
b) der germany-Extract ist zu groß

a)Würde ich dir den Map-Composer empfehlen. Der kann Style-Files für Kosmos
per guter GUI erstellen (in der nächsten Version auch für Maperitive).

b) ist da schon etwas schwieriger. Hier musst du den Extract mit osmosis
Filtern, sodass nurnoch die benötigten Objekte in der Datei sind.

Wenn du weitere Fragen hast, nur zu...

Viele Grüße,
aighes
-- 
View this message in context: 
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Sent from the Germany mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-de] Spezialkarte Trampen

2010-06-03 Per discussione Johann H. Addicks
Am 04.06.2010 00:27, schrieb Patrick Hanft:

 Das mit den Raststätten dürfte deshalb wohl ein Problem sein, weil – soweit
 ich es zumindest bisher sehen konnte – die bei uns eingezeichneten
 Raststätten nirgendwo eine eigene semantische Kennzeichnung haben,

Oh, dann bekommen wir die Kleinraststätte
(Das Ding was einem niemand genau definieren kann...)

-jha-


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Re: [Talk-de] motorway und motorway_link um desti nation-tag ergänzen

2010-06-03 Per discussione steffterra

Am 03.06.2010 um 20:50 schrieb Bernd Wurst:

 Hallo.
 
 Am Donnerstag 03 Juni 2010, 19:48:40 schrieb steffterra:
 Kennt ihr eine Liste/Datenbank, in der die Auffahrten mit ihren
 Fernziel-Städtenamen (Zeichen Nr. 430, und für AB-Kreuze Nr.448) gesammelt
 sind?
 
 Es ist nicht exakt das was du suchst, aber die Fotos auf 
 http://www.autobahn-bilder.de/
 sind dafür gut geeignet.

Das ist ja der Hammer - da hat sich ja jemand wirklich Arbeit gemacht (die 
postproduction war sicher sehr aufwendig)

Danke dafür,

steffterra
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Re: [Talk-de] Trennzeichen bei Aufzählungen im Wert eines Tags (war: motorway und motorway_link um d estination-tag ergänzen )

2010-06-03 Per discussione steffterra

Am 03.06.2010 um 20:57 schrieb Gerry Light:

 Am 03.06.2010 20:33, schrieb Bernd Wurst:
  Ich würde ganz stark dazu raten,
 überall Semikolon zu benutzen, das
 
  ist vergleichsweise sehr weit verbreitet.
 
 
 +1
 
 nicht nur verbreitet, sondern auch dokumentiert, siehe z.B. auch 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Faq#What_shall_I_do_for_roads_that_have_multiple_values_for_a_tag.3F

Habs geändert für motorway und motorway_link  und natürlich auch für 
destination richtig mit Semikolon ohne Leerzeichen eingetragen. Des weiteren 
habe ich mir erlaubt die engl. Seite für ref auf den Fall der mehrfachen 
Values etwas anzupassen. (Daher stammt auch Dein link, wie ich vermute)  Passt 
doch so, oder? :-)

Grüße,

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