The Bat! - bug report / Long lines in email message

[Andrej]

Hello The Bat! developers,

  I'm using The Bat! Version 1.48f
  Serial Number 8772262C
  under Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1
  and would like to report a bug

  The bug description:


Other problem, many people writes their messages in MS WORD, then
copies to The Bat!, each paragraph in this case turns to one long line

In a case with POP3 server of my WEB HOSTER, if this long line is
longer than 1024 characters, it is simply silent, without noise is cut
off on 1024 character.

I understand, you can speak that it is a problem of my WEB HOSTER, and
certainly I already speak with them about this, however is present rfc
which regulates quantity of characters in one line:

rfc 1939 (POP3)

Responses in the POP3 consist of a status indicator and a keyword possibly
followed by additional information. All responses are terminated by a
CRLF pair. Responses may be up to 512 characters long, including the
terminating CRLF.
  


So I consider incorrect that The Bat! allows the users to send the
messages with long lines. Likely there are many more servers where the
long lines are cut off and users at all do not know about it!!!

Regards,
  Andrej


As well:

rfc 821 (SMTP)

There are several objects that have required minimum maximum sizes.  That is,
every implementation must be able to receive objects of at least these sizes,
but must not send objects larger than these sizes.

...

command line

   The maximum total length of a command line including the
   command word and the  is 512 characters.

reply line

   The maximum total length of a reply line including the
   reply code and the  is 512 characters.

text line

   The maximum total length of a text line including the
is 1000 characters (but not counting the leading
   dot duplicated for transparency).

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Re[4]: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Friday, January 05, 2001, 1:29:07 PM, Olivier Reubens wrote:


OR> OK..  If that can't be done..  How can installing my own SMTP server
OR> work 
OR> According to that other mail, If I would install a SMTP server on my
OR> own PC, I can have that one send the messages to the target SMTP
OR> server, but when I'd install a mailer, It wouldn't be ?  Sorry but
OR> that makes no sense.  What's preventing an e-mail client from having
OR> the same send-engine as a SMTP server on the same computer would do.
OR> I really don't see why that wouldn't work.  Then again, I have no idea
OR> how mail arrives at a destination mailbox either, so I really can't
OR> tell.

I think the problem is that, as you say, you have no idea as to how
mail arrives at the mailbox - and you are confused about the
difference between SMTP and POP, and other server programs.

I'm no expert, so I might be wrong on some details, but here's how it
works, as clearly as I can explain.

The short answer is that if you have your own SMTP, you can configure
the options the way you want it. SMTP's on other servers will be
configured in different ways, but all will be configured to protect
against abuse by intruders or spammers.

SMTP is a program on a server that sends or relays mail to other
servers.  In the end, it will send mail to a POP box somewhere - the
POP box is the place where the user gets the mail from.

Servers also have software designed for filtering and processing mail.
This software is what tells SMTP what to do with the mail when it gets
it. Some common programs for this are called Sendmail, Procmail, Qmail.

If you had your own SMTP server, you would use the mail software to
tell it to recognize and relay all mail coming from you and your
domains, and reject everything else. So, you will have configured your
personal SMTP to allow relaying, but only the relaying that helps you.
Since your personal SMTP would not have a dedicated connection, you
would probably not have to worry about other spam protections.

A dialup ISP company will probably configure their SMTP server to only
accept mail that has originated on its network - that is, something
coming in via the dialup.

A webhosting company without dialup services will generally configure
their SMTP to accept other mail, but use a verification routine such
as POP-before-send coupled with spam filters such as the ORBS database
to protect their server.

-Abigail



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Re: New filters don't work?

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Ming-Li,

On  Fri, 5 Jan 2001  at  07:08:50 GMT -0800 (which was 7:08 AM
where I live) witnesses say Ming-Li typed:

> The way TB is doing, while it won't if you just take what it gives
> you, it's very convenient for me to decide which part to strip out.
> But I agree it's confusing to new users and should be addressed.

> Any idea?

How about separating them into 4 fields with Tick Boxes.  The
conditions can then be added using a single set instead of just a
single string.

So the add filter confirmation would look something like:

 Select filter criteria:
  _ First Name 
  _ Last Name  
  _ Full Name  
  _ E-mail Address 
 
These fields can be filled in with the same code as the macros that
return these values in templates.
  
-- 
Thanks for writing,
 Januk Aggarwal

 Using The Bat! 1.48f
 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: A few questions re attachments

[Austin Dennis]

I've done a little testing, and.

> > AD> 1. Why does the attachment message flag not appear until you
actually
> click
> > AD> on the message?
> >
> > Perhaps it's some sort of legacy limitations from the old message base
> > format. Just IMHO :-)

I worked this one out - if it's a message sent in HTML format, the message
flag doesn't appear until you click on it. If it's a plain text message, it
appears as soon as the message arrives.

> > AD> 3. Why is it that sometimes when you get attachments (images), you
get
> tabs
> > AD> at the bottom of the screen, and sometimes you don't?

Still no answer to this - I tried every type of encoding available, and it
always showed the tabs. I'll check out the program used to email those odd
ones when I get another one (it only happens occassionally - most times it
shows the tabs).

Thanks for the help
Austin

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misc questions from a new TB! user

[Dave Gorman]

I'm trying out TB! and have a few questions.

1) In reviews I read glowing remarks about TB!'s speed.  My experience
differs a bit from that.  I don't so much notice the speed of checking
mail since it happens in the background.  But other things seem to
take forever.  I have it said to mark messages read after being
selected 0 seconds.  However, on unread messages, it usually takes a
good 4-5 seconds for the message to be displayed, then marked as read.
If I want to delete the message, I have to wait that 4-5 seconds
before I am allowed to click on the trash icon.  Deleting a single
message takes 5 seconds exactly (I've timed it, it's very consistent).
Deleting multiple selected messages takes even longer depending on how
many are selected.

My PC is not a wimp -- PIII 500, 128MB RAM, tons of free HD space.
NT4.0 workstation
Why would simple tasks be taking so long?

2) I'm also under the impression from my reading (and correct me if I
have misinterpreted something) that TB! should be less of a resource
hog than other email apps.  I have been running Outlook 2000 and TB!
simultaneously for several hours now.  Task Manager shows outlook
using 8852K memory, and TB! using 11028K.  More of a hog than
Outlook?!  Wow!

3) Threading -- I've been using TB! for several mailing lists I'm
subscribed to, and when I view threads by subject, rather than showing
the original message first and the replies underneath most recent
shown last, it is just the opposite.  The most recent reply is shown
as the main message, with all other messages in the thread underneath
in reverse chronological order, with the original message listed last.
If I try threading my reference, it doesn't even keep all messages of
a thread together.  What a mess!

Is it possible to have rational, logical threading with TB?

TIA for any and all help!

Dave



_
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Austin Dennis]

Hi Olivier

I'm not sure if this will work, but it seems to be working fine for me. Go
to mailandnews.com and set up an account with them (it's free). Now go into
TB and set up your SMTP server to mailandnews.com. Then select
"Authentication", tick "Perform SMTP Authentication" and "Use specific
settings". Enter your userid and password for mailandnews.com, and you
should be able to send emails (no matter where you are logged in from). I
don't know if this is "supposed" to work, but it does. Perhaps they've left
it open by mistake, or perhaps it's permissible since you have an account
there. I suspect lots of the other free web based providers are the same. It
may not be super quick (certainly not as quick as using your ISP's SMTP
server), but it may resolve the problem.

Good luck
Austin


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Re: Please take me from the List

[Nick Danger]

Subject: Please take me from the List
   From: Andrea Schiffer
  Dated:  Fri, 5 Jan 2001, 23:05:02 (4:05:02 PM Local)

Hi Andrea,

A> I would like to be taken please by the list.

And which member of the list do you want to be taken by?

Sorry.  Bad taste I know.  I just couldn't help myself.  All part of
that damn moron-mode I'm guessing.

-- 
ò¸ó Nick [MUA: TB! 1.48h]
 Danger  [OS: Win98 4.10 1998]
 ["All the world's a game, and we are just niggly bits"©]



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Please take me from the List

[Andrea Schiffer]

Hello,


I would like to be taken please by the list. Automatic logging out does not function.

 Yours sincerely

 Andrea

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Re: Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:31:46 -0800, you wrote:

>You don't know what your addressed person's SMTP server is - there is
>no way to know except by looking at RFC headers of mail they have sent
>you, and then if they are using multiple ISP's like you, it would mean
>nothing.
>
>Not all servers with POP accounts have SMTP; web-based email such as
>yahoo or hotmail doesn't provide an SMTP that is associated with the
>domain name; and the SMTP doesn't always match the domain name.
>
>Finally, if outsiders could access the sender's SMTP, that would be
>spammer's heaven -- imagine being able to use the AOL SMTP servers to
>send your spam to everyone on AOL - you not only would have the
>benefit of their servers, but you would defeat whatever spam
>blocking routines were build into their mail handling software.

OK..  If that can't be done..  How can installing my own SMTP server
work 
According to that other mail, If I would install a SMTP server on my
own PC, I can have that one send the messages to the target SMTP
server, but when I'd install a mailer, It wouldn't be ?  Sorry but
that makes no sense.  What's preventing an e-mail client from having
the same send-engine as a SMTP server on the same computer would do.
I really don't see why that wouldn't work.  Then again, I have no idea
how mail arrives at a destination mailbox either, so I really can't
tell.  

>You might just want to configure your mail options to queue outgoing
>mail in the outbox rather than sending it right away.  If there is one
>place you are certain to be every day, then when you arrive there the
>first thing to to when you arrive at that location would be to log on
>and send all the messages in the outbox.
Can't do, users insist on faster than immediate response.  Sending
direct is an absolute must.

>Of course, this would result in delayed reply to some email, but you
>could bypass the routine if an email was particularly important to
>respond to urgently.
they all are .

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

>Well, perhaps you can consider using Host Colocation Service, means
>you put your own Server on ISP site ?
We have one server running at a provider (the one that has the site
and database).

>OR> 1)  Access  via  ADSL or Cable at home. This is where I do most of
>OR> the management from so the speed needs to be high, I often need to
>OR> make several MB's worth of changes to the dbase mentionned in 3).
>
>You can choose any connection as you want to connect to your own
>server (some ISP on my country allow this).
That's the prob, the ISP we host our server at and does it at a very
nice price only has modem dial-in. no cable or DSL, so it's too slow
to be usefull, I'll need another ISP to get faster connection so I can
access my own server over the internet at a faster speed.

>OR> 2) Access via GSM at an affordable price/min.
>Install WAP Web interface engine :-)
Not viable for what we need to do.  We need the GSM to provide regular
dial-up access.

>OR> 3)  ISDN  access  from the office with "notification" when mail is
>OR> there  (basically  the provider calling the office to drop of mail
>OR> packets).  it's a little more complex than this but it is the core
>OR> of it.
>
>See above
"it is a little more complex than that".  I really don't want to go
into all the details about it, it has nothing to do with The Bat!
anyway :-)  What we REALLY need is permamnent connection in the
office, but it's not affordable at the time, and since the amount of
traffic isn't very high, this suits us fine for the moment.

>OR> 4)  Site  hosting with semi-large dbase (around 3Gb dbase getting)
>OR> with  remote management of the DB (which we currently take care of
>OR> via 5) because no adequate alternate was available).
>
>Just add so many HDD as you want, upgrade the RAM or processor if
>needed :-)
Still need to put it online somewhere, where providers ask money for,
server hosting is expensive, we got a special deal at this particular
provider, but can't use him for dialin since he only has regular modem
access.

>OR> 5)  Access  to  Windows  NT  Terminal  server via the internet for
>OR> around  25 on-the-road users, although rarely more than one or two
>OR> at any one time.
>Use W2K Advance Server or run Citrix Winframe on NT4 :-)
It's NT4 TSE now, W2K would do also, but it was installed like this
before W2K became available and I see no reason to pay for a W2K
upgrade when it offers nothing we can't already do now.

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Re[2]: New filters don't work?

[Allie Martin]

I thought I'd comment on Ming-Li's contribution to the list,
sent on Fri, 5 Jan 2001 07:08:50 -0800:

[..trimmed..]
ML> Maybe we can come up with a suggestion for them. The way TB
ML> currently works is it takes the whole string from the From field
ML> and put it there, without checking for special characters.

Yes, this is the problem.

ML> I wouldn't want TB to strip out the "name" part (leaving only the
ML> email address) for me, however, since I sometimes want to use the
ML> name instead of the email address for my filter (some people
ML> consistently use a very unique name, but many different addresses).
ML> Likewise, I don't TB to strip out the email address either.

Since we don't create filters as often as we compose mail, a pop-up
query may be in order here as to whether the user wishes to filter
using the sender/recipient e-mail address or name.

[..trimmed..]

-- 
@~@@~@
 | A. Curtis Martin  [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA]  |
 | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey |   
@_@   (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS)   @_@
__
TB! v1.48h | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1)


 


"Ming-Li on TBUDL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>'

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Friday, January 05, 2001, 11:06:24 AM, Olivier Reubens wrote:

>>There are servers you can install on your PC. Of course, they will be
>>only active when you are currently connected, but I tried one once,
>>and it sent the messages directly to the recipient's POP server.
OR> Actually..   Why does no e-mail client have an option to deliver
OR> sent mail directly to the addressed person's SMTP server.  Am I
OR> missing an obvious "NO" here, or have I just thought up a totally new
OR> type of internet application (Maybe I should file a patent for it
OR> right away )

You don't know what your addressed person's SMTP server is - there is
no way to know except by looking at RFC headers of mail they have sent
you, and then if they are using multiple ISP's like you, it would mean
nothing.

Not all servers with POP accounts have SMTP; web-based email such as
yahoo or hotmail doesn't provide an SMTP that is associated with the
domain name; and the SMTP doesn't always match the domain name.

Finally, if outsiders could access the sender's SMTP, that would be
spammer's heaven -- imagine being able to use the AOL SMTP servers to
send your spam to everyone on AOL - you not only would have the
benefit of their servers, but you would defeat whatever spam
blocking routines were build into their mail handling software.

OR> The ISP I use at home doesn't provide an ISDN service like the one we
OR> have in the office.  That one in turn doesn't provide access through
OR> ADSL.  The "on the road" is a special case again, since dialing either
OR> provider would be costly, and it's cheaper per minute to use the
OR> internet provided by the company I get my GSM line from...

You might just want to configure your mail options to queue outgoing
mail in the outbox rather than sending it right away.  If there is one
place you are certain to be every day, then when you arrive there the
first thing to to when you arrive at that location would be to log on
and send all the messages in the outbox.

Of course, this would result in delayed reply to some email, but you
could bypass the routine if an email was particularly important to
respond to urgently.

The other thing to do - but it's obviously not very convenient, is to
simply configure TB to send to one SMTP, but change the SMTP
configuration as needed when you move around during the day.  This is
obviously not convenient, but I know it can be done, because I used to
do that during a time when I did not have a reliable ISP.

-Abigail

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Limiting number of characters?

[Gerry Doyon]

I have a wireless e-mail pager that can except message of about 100
words at a time.

I'd like to forward a few select e-mail messages using The Bat!, but,
can't find a mechanism by which I can take, say, the first 125
characters.

Is there such a function/macro?

Thanks!

-- 
The Bat! v1.48f

Best regards,
 Gerry Doyon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 New England Shipping Solutions
 (207) 776-0100
 (207) 767-6242 - Fax

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Abigail Marshall,

On  Fri,  5  Jan 2001 at 11:43:05 GMT -0800(which was 1/6/2001 2:43 AM
where you think I live) you told to Andrey G. Sergeev on the list :

AGSAA>> Sorry, but you're wrong here.

AGSAA>> Generally,  all  SMTP  servers  are  "relays".  But the actual
AGSAA>> server  behaviour  can  significantly  vary. You can use ORBS,
AGSAA>> RBL,  DRBL,  RSS  whatever  databases to prevent spammers from
AGSAA>> sending your their crap, you of course should use some kind of
AGSAA>> ACL (access.db on sendmail) etc. It depends, as we say here in
AGSAA>> Russia :-).

AGSAA>> So  we're  speaking  about so-called "third party relaying" in
AGSAA>> this  thread.  This relaying occurs when someone connects to a
AGSAA>> SMTP  server  which  is  serving  some  number of domains (the
AGSAA>> actual number doesn't matter here - it can be 1, 2...) and use
AGSAA>> the  the domain _names_ not known as "local" by this server as
AGSAA>> an argument in the MAIL FROM: _and_ RCPT TO: commands.

Andrey,  perhaps  you  forgot  that for most ISP around the world only
protect base on IP addresse on his MTA RCPt-Host. As far as the sender
using trusted IP, it will allow to relay.

AM> Andrey,  this  would  be  the  case  if  I  set the SMTP to my own
AM> company's  server  (dyslexia.com),  but set the mail from/reply-to
AM> for  something  else, AND if I used an authentication scheme other
AM> than POP-before-send. But in those cases I am still accessing from
AM> an  unrelated dialup - my company's server does not provide dialup
AM> access.

This is the case for company or Mail Provider who does not have Dial
Up Services.

I do as yours for my Server, I can Relay to my SMTPServer even connect
using  any  other  ISP.  I am using combination of POP Before SMTP and
SMTPAuth and Domain Name Authentication.

AM> The difference with the dialup is that - at least in the US - most
AM> MAJOR  service providers use an authentication routine that allows
AM> anyone  who  has dialed up via their lines to use the SMTP without
AM> limitation,  assuming they have passed the authentication required
AM> at log in.

Correct.

AM> I  have  found  that  the companies offering free or very low cost
AM> access  do not work that way, so perhaps in other countries it may
AM> be  a  problem. Obviously, I don't know what the procedures are in
AM> Belgium or Russia.

IMHO, it just the same, at least in my country (Indonesia).

--
Best regards,

- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama
Mailto: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL : 
*
Created : Saturday, January 06, 2001, 2:46:44 AM GMT +0700

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Olivier Reubens,

On  Fri,  05 Jan 2001 at 20:16:55 GMT +0100(which was 1/6/2001 2:16 AM
where you think I live) you told to the list :

>>What are your requirements that no single ISP can satisfy?

Well, perhaps you can consider using Host Colocation Service, means
you put your own Server on ISP site ?

OR> 1)  Access  via  ADSL or Cable at home. This is where I do most of
OR> the management from so the speed needs to be high, I often need to
OR> make several MB's worth of changes to the dbase mentionned in 3).

You can choose any connection as you want to connect to your own
server (some ISP on my country allow this).

OR> 2) Access via GSM at an affordable price/min.

Install WAP Web interface engine :-)

OR> 3)  ISDN  access  from the office with "notification" when mail is
OR> there  (basically  the provider calling the office to drop of mail
OR> packets).  it's a little more complex than this but it is the core
OR> of it.

See above

OR> 4)  Site  hosting with semi-large dbase (around 3Gb dbase getting)
OR> with  remote management of the DB (which we currently take care of
OR> via 5) because no adequate alternate was available).

Just add so many HDD as you want, upgrade the RAM or processor if
needed :-)

OR> 5)  Access  to  Windows  NT  Terminal  server via the internet for
OR> around  25 on-the-road users, although rarely more than one or two
OR> at any one time.

Use W2K Advance Server or run Citrix Winframe on NT4 :-)

--
Best regards,

- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama
Mailto: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL : 
*
Created : Saturday, January 06, 2001, 2:56:35 AM GMT +0700

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Screen Saver?

[Gerry Doyon]

Howdy all,

I've found that my PC locks up when:

  1) My screen saver is running and...
  2) The Bat! displays the Mail Ticker

I've seen in a "Screen Saver" option when setting up my filters.  What
does this feature do and will it help with my lockups?

Should I resign myself to either disabling my screen saver or the
e-mail ticker?

Thanks! BTW, I couldn't find my answer in the help document or the
FAQ/archives.

Thanks!

-- 
Best regards,
 Gerry Doyon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 New England Shipping Solutions
 (207) 776-0100
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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Abigail Marshall]

--
On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 8:19:30 PM, Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

OR>>> Well a ruling of the ISPA (www.ispa.be) (belgium organisation
OR>>> regulating ISP's in belgium) stipulates that no SMTP server should
OR>>> have an "open" line.

TF>> It is not an "open" line if you are connected to it.

AGSAA> Hmm... Didn't catch the point, could you please explain? :-)

Well, I'm in the US, so it may be different, but for me, here's how it
works.

I sign up with an ISP, in my case it currently is Flashmail.  I have a
dialup connection.  My dialup to Flashmail requires a user name and
password to access, but of course this is automatically entered by my
Windows dialup software every time I connect.

I do not have any other way to connect to the internet except for the
dialup I subscribe to. (Actually I do have some alternate connections
for backup use, but I don't use their SMTP - if for some reason the
Flashmail network server is down, I will use the SMTP on my own
server, which has POP-before-send authentication.)

Flashmail provides me with a POP box that I NEVER use.  That is, there is no
such thing as an abigail-username@flashmail address listed anywhere. I
do receive mail THROUGH their POP, but all of it is forwarded/rerouted
from the aliases associated with different domains.  Since I manage
several websites, there are different aliases associated with
different domains ([EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED], etc.) My reply-to/from always reflects the
domain I am replying from.

As long as I have used the Flashmail dialup to connect to the
internet, the mail goes through the Flashmail SMTP with NO problem no
matter WHAT the reply-to/from headers say.  I suppose it is possible
that I could run into a problem if I used a domain that was
specifically BANNED by the ISP because it was on an ORBS database,
etc., but this isn't a problem with using our own proprietary domain
names, and it has not been a problem with configuring the
reply-to/from for a hotmail or other web-based system, either. (My
kids have hotmail accounts)

AGSAA> Sorry, but you're wrong here.

AGSAA> Generally, all SMTP servers are "relays". But the actual server
AGSAA> behaviour can significantly vary. You can use ORBS, RBL, DRBL, RSS
AGSAA> whatever databases to prevent spammers from sending your their crap, you
AGSAA> of course should use some kind of ACL (access.db on sendmail) etc. It
AGSAA> depends, as we say here in Russia :-).

AGSAA> So we're speaking about so-called "third party relaying" in this thread.
AGSAA> This relaying occurs when someone connects to a SMTP server which is
AGSAA> serving some number of domains (the actual number doesn't matter here -
AGSAA> it can be 1, 2...) and use the the domain _names_ not known as "local"
AGSAA> by this server as an argument in the MAIL FROM: _and_ RCPT TO: commands.

Andrey, this would be the case if I set the SMTP to my own company's
server (dyslexia.com), but set the mail from/reply-to for something
else, AND if I used an authentication scheme other than
POP-before-send. But in those cases I am still accessing from an
unrelated dialup - my company's server does not provide dialup access.

The difference with the dialup is that - at least in the US - most
MAJOR service providers use an authentication routine that allows
anyone who has dialed up via their lines to use the SMTP without
limitation, assuming they have passed the authentication required at
log in.

I have found that the companies offering free or very low cost access
do not work that way, so perhaps in other countries it may be a
problem.  Obviously, I don't know what the procedures are in Belgium
or Russia.



-Abigail



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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Manfred Ell]

On 05-01-2001 at 23:19:00GMT +0800 (which was 15:19 where I live)
Thomas Fernandez wrote regarding the subject of "Multiple email everything."


Hello Thomas,

GFS>> I have also seen smtp servers that can be installed in 98/NT/2K. Have
GFS>> yet to try one But they must work.

Thomas> Isn't Hamster one of those?

Yes, SMTP, POP3 and NNTP server.
I'm using this myself. Recommended.

Regards

-- 
Manfred
___
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I'm not fast but I'm not slow, I'm kinda half fast. 

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:44:11 +0800, you wrote:

>What are your requirements that no single ISP can satisfy?

1) Access via ADSL or Cable at home.  This is where I do most of the
management from so the speed needs to be high, I often need to make
several MB's worth of changes to the dbase mentionned in 3).
2) Access via GSM at an affordable price/min.
3) ISDN access from the office with "notification" when mail is there
(basically the provider calling the office to drop of mail packets).
it's a little more complex than this but it is the core of it.
4) Site hosting with semi-large dbase (around 3Gb dbase getting) with
remote management of the DB (which we currently take care of via 5)
because no adequate alternate was available).
5) Access to Windows NT Terminal server via the internet for around 25
on-the-road users, although rarely more than one or two at any one
time.

Olivier Reubens.
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:41:46 +0800, you wrote:

>There are servers you can install on your PC. Of course, they will be
>only active when you are currently connected, but I tried one once,
>and it sent the messages directly to the recipient's POP server.
Actually..   Why does no e-mail client have an option to deliver
sent mail directly to the addressed person's SMTP server.  Am I
missing an obvious "NO" here, or have I just thought up a totally new
type of internet application (Maybe I should file a patent for it
right away )

>I uninstalled it again, because I found it awkward, and in addition, I
>have only PC's, no laptop, so I can use my ISP's SMTP at home, and my
>company's SMTP in the office (which has a 24/7 ISDN connection to the
>internet, which I can use via the LAN).
H I see your point. I would only need the SMTP server the short
moment I'm sending the mails.  Don't have to make it manage the
mailboxes.

>Another idea would be to connect via attglobal.net (formerly ibm.net)
>or Compuserve, they have dial-in numbers in many places, and you can
>use either their SMTP server or connect through them to your respective
>SMTP servers. I haven't used either of them for a while, so I don't
>don't whether it still works.
About all of the ISP's I use have POP's all over Belgium, some even
have access from other countries in Belgium.  That however isn't the
problem.  When I'm home, I'm using ADSL, at the office, we have ISDN,
and when I'm on the road I use GSM.
The ISP I use at home doesn't provide an ISDN service like the one we
have in the office.  That one in turn doesn't provide access through
ADSL.  The "on the road" is a special case again, since dialing either
provider would be costly, and it's cheaper per minute to use the
internet provided by the company I get my GSM line from...
Starting to see the picture here...  :-(  I really wish I could get it
all done via just one, but either they don't provide the service I
require or the cost to get it done is too high.
I'm not even going to get started as to why I need the other 2 ISP's
for :-)

Olivier Reubens
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Olivier Reubens,

On  Fri,  05 Jan 2001 at 19:23:54 GMT +0100(which was 1/6/2001 1:23 AM
where you think I live) you told to the list :

>>Obtain  an  old pc. E.g. a P90. Install a *nix/*BSD on it and use it
>>as  a  smtp  server. This solution works very well if your ISP has a
>>dodgy  mail server (e.g. Lineone). When I'm on the internet in Linux
>>I use sendmail and have no need for a smtp server.

OR> And  if  I had a 24/24 line to the internet, I'd get my own domain
OR> registered,  set  up  my own server(s) over here and get ALL of my
OR> internet problems finally finished, alas this is not the case, and
OR> I  really  don't see how you would install an SMTP server on a non
OR> dedicated line.
OR> 24/24 lines with a fixed IP are however still too expensive for my
OR> budget, I can't afford to hand over about 1000 Euro each month.

Ahem...I  am running MDaemon with Personal Dial Up Connection (dynamic
IP)  since  1997  here  in my office. In December 1999, for 3-days the
list  (TBUDL  and  TBBETA)  servicing by my office Server (the Dial Up
one) due my Full On-line Server having outage problem :-)

On this vacation period (I am still on vacation right now :-)), I have
been testing some Freeware Mail Server, most running on Windows base,
and running well on Personal Dial Connection in my PC (P-166, 64 MB
RAM, 4 GB IDE HDD).
If you want to know the details, drop me message privately.

OR> I  am  currently FORCED to use multiple ISP's because none of them
OR> can solve all of my needs at an affordable price.

:-)

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- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
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Created : Saturday, January 06, 2001, 1:23:31 AM GMT +0700

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Olivier,

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:25:59 +0100 GMT (06/01/2001, 02:25 +0800 GMT),
Olivier Reubens wrote:

OR> If I could get an ISP that can do ALL of the things I need at an
OR> affordable price, I'd kick out all the rest and go with just the one,
OR> but this isn't the case at the moment.

What are your requirements that no single ISP can satisfy?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

-There is no gravity. The Earth sucks. 

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Olivier,

On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:23:54 +0100 GMT (06/01/2001, 02:23 +0800 GMT),
Olivier Reubens wrote:

OR> And if I had a 24/24 line to the internet, I'd get my own domain
OR> registered,

I believe with 24 hours on 24 days a week, you could do a lot more
than that. ;-)

OR> set up my own server(s) over here and get ALL of my
OR> internet problems finally finished, alas this is not the case, and I
OR> really don't see how you would install an SMTP server on a non
OR> dedicated line.

There are servers you can install on your PC. Of course, they will be
only active when you are currently connected, but I tried one once,
and it sent the messages directly to the recipient's POP server.

I uninstalled it again, because I found it awkward, and in addition, I
have only PC's, no laptop, so I can use my ISP's SMTP at home, and my
company's SMTP in the office (which has a 24/7 ISDN connection to the
internet, which I can use via the LAN).

But for you, it might be a solution.

Another idea would be to connect via attglobal.net (formerly ibm.net)
or Compuserve, they have dial-in numbers in many places, and you can
use either their SMTP server or connect through them to your respective
SMTP servers. I haven't used either of them for a while, so I don't
don't whether it still works.

It does not work with AOL, though.

OR> The real problem is that depending on where I am, I will dial in to
OR> different ISP's.

See above. Try an ISP that has dial-up numbers everywhere you go.

Another solution (my boss does this) is to dial long-distance to your
home ISP every time. :-(

OR>  Setting the same "SMTP" server in all the accounts
OR> would require me to change all of them each time I connect from
OR> another location, which happens at least 3 times dayly. 

Feature request: Set SMTP server for all accounts to:
Preferrably with a "location" list, wheere you just choose the lace
where you are, and the SMTP server details are stored.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. 

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Re: Importing from Forté Agent

[Olivier Reubens]

I am of course referring to the perl script mentionned on the "How do
I" page
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/howdoi.html#Importing

Olivier Reubens

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Importing from Forté Agent

[Olivier Reubens]

Hi,

There's a perl script that apparently fixes a problem with importing
folders from Forté Agent.
Alas, I don't have or know perl.
Can anyone tell me what this per script does so I can write my own
program to fix this.

Olivier Reubens
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Re: Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:39:04 -0500, you wrote:

>I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
>servers on an account for sending.
I am solving it with Forté Agent at this moment, where I can
auto-select the SMTP server depending on what dial-up I made the
connection with.
But Agent requires me to fire a copy of Agent for each mailbox I want
to manage.  Launching Agent 5 times works, but it's not easy to work
with this way.
So far, Agent is the only one which provides me with a "workable" yet
cludgy way to do stuff, and I've tried _LOTS_ of e-mail clients over
the last few months.

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:27:07 +0100, you wrote:

>On 05-01-2001 at 03:54, Olivier Reubens kindly wrote:
>
>> Contrary to what someone else suggested, xs4all.be is also a member of
>> the ISPA and doesn't have an open SMTP server.
>
>I suggested that XS4all.be probably uses SMTP authentication
>- which is not the same as an open SMTP. But from a later
>post of yours I gathered that you do not want a new account,
>so that solution is out anyway.

If I could get an ISP that can do ALL of the things I need at an
affordable price, I'd kick out all the rest and go with just the one,
but this isn't the case at the moment.

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Re: Thanks for using English!

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Thomas Fernandez,

On Saturday, January 06, 2001 at 01:19:47 GMT +0800(which was 1/6/2001
12:19 AM where you think I live) you told to the list :

SH>> I  am  considering to create The Bat! Indonesia List near future,
SH>> some of friends keep asking me since last couple month :-)

TF> Keep us informed and all good luck!

TF> Speaking of TB lists in Asian languages, a Chinese list was set up
TF> sometime  in 1999, but it fell asleep again. It was GB2312 encoded
TF> (simplified  Chinese  -  Mainland  China),  like  the  Chinese  TB
TF> interface.  Maybe one day we'll have another Chinese list, I see a
TF> chance for a Big5 encoded Chinese interface (traditional Chinese -
TF> Taiwan,  Hong Kong, Singapore), followed by a Chinese (Big5) list.
TF> 

Perhaps due TB not supporting DCBC well, yet :-(
Well we hope TB will supporting it in near future.

Our language will cover Malaysia and Singapore (whom speak BAHASA),
but I don't know how large TB already use by Malaysian or Singapore
people.

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- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
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Created : Saturday, January 06, 2001, 1:14:04 AM GMT +0700

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Olivier Reubens]

>OR> None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
>OR> 'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 

>Obtain an old pc. E.g. a P90. Install a *nix/*BSD on it and use it as a
>smtp server. This solution works very well if your ISP has a dodgy
>mail server (e.g. Lineone). When I'm on the internet in Linux I use
>sendmail and have no need for a smtp server.

And if I had a 24/24 line to the internet, I'd get my own domain
registered, set up my own server(s) over here and get ALL of my
internet problems finally finished, alas this is not the case, and I
really don't see how you would install an SMTP server on a non
dedicated line.
24/24 lines with a fixed IP are however still too expensive for my
budget, I can't afford to hand over about 1000 Euro each month.

I am currently FORCED to use multiple ISP's because none of them can
solve all of my needs at an affordable price.

The real problem is that depending on where I am, I will dial in to
different ISP's.  Setting the same "SMTP" server in all the accounts
would require me to change all of them each time I connect from
another location, which happens at least 3 times dayly. 

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Re: Thanks for using English!

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Syafril,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:51:44 +0700 GMT (06/01/2001, 00:51 +0800 GMT),
Syafril Hermansyah wrote:

SH> I am considering to create The Bat! Indonesia List near future, some
SH> of friends keep asking me since last couple month :-)

Keep us informed and all good luck!

Speaking of TB lists in Asian languages, a Chinese list was set up
sometime in 1999, but it fell asleep again. It was GB2312 encoded
(simplified Chinese - Mainland China), like the Chinese TB interface.
Maybe one day we'll have another Chinese list, I see a chance for a
Big5 encoded Chinese interface (traditional Chinese - Taiwan, Hong
Kong, Singapore), followed by a Chinese (Big5) list. 

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

A day without sunshine is like, night. 

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Re: Thanks for using English!

[Stefano Zamprogno]

Ciao Danilo,

Friday, January 05, 2001, 3:03:29 PM, you wrote:

DB> Prego

Idem da un altro utente Italiano :-)))
(Idem from another Italian user)

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Re: Thanks for using English!

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Thomas Fernandez,

On  Friday,  January 05, 2001 at 23:22:35 GMT +0800(which was 1/5/2001
10:22 PM where you think I live) you told to the list :

GD>> From a person who was born and raised in the United States I want to
GD>> thank everyone else whose primary language is NOT English.  I
GD>> appreciate your willingness to write your comments/e-mails in English.

TF> You  are  most  welcome.  Of  course,  feel  free to subscribe the
TF> German,  Russian, Italian, Czech and Polish lists. The willingness
TF> of  the  people  to  speak  the  list  language  there  is just as
TF> formidable! ;-)

I am considering to create The Bat! Indonesia List near future, some
of friends keep asking me since last couple month :-)

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- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
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Created : Friday, January 05, 2001, 11:49:40 PM GMT +0700

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Re: New filters don't work?

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Ming-Li,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 07:08:50 -0800 GMT (05/01/2001, 23:08 +0800 GMT),
Ming-Li wrote:

ML> The way TB is doing, while it won't if you just take what it gives
ML> you, it's very convenient for me to decide which part to strip out.
ML> But I agree it's confusing to new users and should be addressed.

ML> Any idea?

Yes: quotation marks shouldn't be treated as special characters,
because the real name of an email address is often surrounded by them.

For example, it might be unusual that % is the first character of a
real name or an email address (maybe even forbidden?). So, enclosing
text in %% instead of "" for case-sensitive, would be an idea.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

In a Copenhagen airline ticket office: We take your bags and send
them in all directions. 

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Re: Thanks for using English!

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Gerry,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:55:29 -0500 GMT (05/01/2001, 21:55 +0800 GMT),
Gerry Doyon wrote:

GD> I have recently purchased The Bat! and like it VERY much.  I also
GD> subscribe to this list server, of course.

Good choice. :-)

GD> From a person who was born and raised in the United States I want to
GD> thank everyone else whose primary language is NOT English.  I
GD> appreciate your willingness to write your comments/e-mails in English.

You are most welcome. Of course, feel free to subscribe the German,
Russian, Italian, Czech and Polish lists. The willingness of the
people to speak the list language there is just as formidable! ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

"A fossil is an extinct animal. The older it is, the more extinct it is."

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Re: Execute command ON EXIT

[Ming-Li]

On Friday, January 05, 2001, 7:46:11 AM, Kari wrote:

ML>> That should work, as you've found out. The only "drawback" of
ML>> that approach is an DOS instance (window) for the batch would
ML>> stay there the whole time TB is active. It's no big deal, just
ML>> something I always try to avoid.

> I posted a solution and a complete How-To just five minutes ago.
> Thank you for your effort.

I saw it. But I was talking about the "instance" of the shell, not
the visibility of the window. But as I said, it's just a petty thing
I try to avoid. I'm glad it works out for you.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/2 | Win2k SP1

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Re[2]: Possible bug when entering characters using Alt+NumPad

[Tim Musson]

Hey Thomas,

Friday, January 05, 2001, 10:30:25 AM, you wrote:

TM>> Alt+116 = t regardless of the NumLock status for
TM>> Win2k/NT/98/95/m$-dos6/5/3/dr-dos7 on ThinkPad/Dell workstation, and
TM>> Compaq servers.

TF> Not for Word 97 under Win98. I just tried it. Returns t when NumLock
TF> is TRUE and nothing when NumLock is FALSE.

Ah...  I did not try it in anything but a command prompt...
I checked another app (TextPad - wonderful text editor btw, wish TB's
editor worked like www.TextPad.com) and with NumLock off, I do not get
the "t"...

TF> I say it's not a bug in TB.

Agreed, it seems to be application dependent.  M$ NotePad gets a t with
NumLock on and off.


-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Bat! v1.48f
Windows NT 5.0.2195 (Service Pack 1)

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Re: New filters don't work?

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Ming-Li,

On  Friday,  January 05, 2001 at 07:08:50 GMT -0800(which was 1/5/2001
10:08 PM where you think I live) you told to the list :

RB>>> It  is  odd that TB creates a filter string that it cannot later
RB>>> use to filter mail, don't you think?

>> I  really hope RIT Labs will address this very sore point soon. It,
>> among a few other things, stick out like a sore thumb.

ML> Maybe  we  can  come  up  with  a  suggestion for them. The way TB
ML> currently  works  is it takes the whole string from the From field
ML> and put it there, without checking for special characters.

Agree.

ML> I  wouldn't want TB to strip out the "name" part (leaving only the
ML> email  address) for me, however, since I sometimes want to use the
ML> name  instead  of  the  email  address  for my filter (some people
ML> consistently   use   a   very  unique  name,  but  many  different
ML> addresses).

Well, this is rare conditions, IMHO
And if happent, as expert user you can customize through shift-ctrl-S,
right.

ML> Likewise, I don't TB to strip out the email address either.

ML> The way TB is doing, while it won't if you just take what it gives
ML> you, it's very convenient for me to decide which part to strip out.
ML> But I agree it's confusing to new users and should be addressed.

I tend to agree if shift-ctrl-F menu only put mailbox part, so new
user will not confuse (this menu will be the first filter menu for
most new user).

--
Best regards,

- Syafril -
..Opinion expressed are only mine
*
Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company : Duta Integrasi Pratama
Mailto: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |Voice   : (62) (21) 385-1600
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL : 
*
Created : Friday, January 05, 2001, 10:34:24 PM GMT +0700

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Re: New filters don't work?

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Allie,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 07:45:40 -0500 GMT (05/01/2001, 20:45 +0800 GMT),
A . Curtis Martin wrote:

RB>> It is odd that TB creates a filter string that it cannot later use to
RB>> filter mail, don't you think?

ACM> I really hope RIT Labs will address this very sore point soon. It,
ACM> among a few other things, stick out like a sore thumb.

One of these little bugs that could be fixed relatively quickly but
have been known for a couple of versions already. This example just
makes my point. ;-)

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

-Death is the greatest kick of all. That's why they save it for last. 

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: Execute command ON EXIT

[Kari Jakobi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Hello Ming-Li,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, 06:55:07 h [GMT -0800] (which
was 15:55 h [GMT +0100] where I live) you wrote:

ML> That should work, as you've found out. The only
ML> "drawback" of that approach is an DOS instance (window)
ML> for the batch would stay there the whole time TB is
ML> active. It's no big deal, just something I always try to
ML> avoid.

I posted a solution and a complete How-To just five minutes
ago. Thank you for your effort.

- -- 
Best regards,
Kari Jakobi

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195

To obtain my PGP-Key send a message to:
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGP-KEY_REQUEST
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iQA/AwUBOlXsQQdigFw4jOv/EQKXAACdFyS1F4sboz/Uk9QFX3HKhCxVm1wAoMpW
Tv0To6EpZtkrbEoVDM7nDRVq
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Re: Possible bug when entering characters using Alt+NumPad

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Tim,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:26:11 -0500 GMT (05/01/2001, 21:26 +0800 GMT),
Tim Musson wrote:

TM> Alt+116 = t regardless of the NumLock status for
TM> Win2k/NT/98/95/m$-dos6/5/3/dr-dos7 on ThinkPad/Dell workstation, and
TM> Compaq servers.

Not for Word 97 under Win98. I just tried it. Returns t when NumLock
is TRUE and nothing when NumLock is FALSE.

You are right under MS-DOS 7, though. I find this inconsistent, but
there it is.

I have no access to other OS's right now, with my laptop (running
DR-DOS 6) having been on the fritz for a while (like 2 years, but one
day, I will fix it).

I say it's not a bug in TB.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

-Why be difficult when with a bit of effort you can be impossible? 

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo George,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 05:23:11 -0800 GMT (05/01/2001, 21:23 +0800 GMT),
George F. Schoelles wrote:

GFS> I have also seen smtp servers that can be installed in 98/NT/2K. Have
GFS> yet to try one But they must work.

Isn't Hamster one of those?

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

"The tides are a fight between the Earth and moon.  All water tends
towards the moon, because there is no water in the moon, and nature
abhors a vacuum. I forget where the sun joins in this fight."

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 
using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM



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Manual Backup Improvements

[Kari Jakobi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Hello fellow listmembers,

for all of you who rely on the manual backup procedure for
TB instead of using the (newly) built in function.
With the help of Thomas, Roel and Andrey I found a very
convenient way for doing this:

The way I designed it will execute the Backup everytime TB
is closed *automagically* without you even noticing anything
has changed.

I assume you have already a batchfile exporting the TB
registry settings and then calling up your favourite Packer.

First, create a batchfile looking like this:



start /wait X:\PATH\thebat.exe
:: WIN9x users use "/w" instead of "/wait"
call X:\PATH_TO_EXISTING_BACKUP.BAT



Use this batchfile to fire up TB instead of thebat.exe.
This will result in two windows popping up (TB itself and
the MS-DOS window where the batchfile is executed)

To get rid of the MS-DOS window, which will reside in your
taskbar use the following batchfile to hide that window
(backup procedure will *not* be changed in any way):



X:\PATH\HIDEWNDW.EXE /r X:\PATH_TO_TBw/Backup.bat



This one will start the batchfile from the first example
using a little program (running under Win9x to W2K) which
will hide the MS-DOS window.

The program HIDEWINDOW is freeware and available from:
http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/desktop/hidewndw.zip/downl.html
(about 35Kb)

HTH some of you.

- -- 
Best regards,
Kari Jakobi

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195

To obtain my PGP-Key send a message to:
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGP-KEY_REQUEST
PGP-KEY ID: 0x388CEBFF



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Version: PGP 7.0
Comment: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

iQA/AwUBOlXqvQdigFw4jOv/EQLCDwCg7y9rZF37ZUPJrzYcIZbVZtXIZkYAn2cY
wfjkovObEX+FtbxDwhARJMic
=FiX3
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Re: New filters don't work?

[Ming-Li]

On Friday, January 05, 2001, 4:45:40 AM, A. wrote:

RB>> It is odd that TB creates a filter string that it cannot later
RB>> use to filter mail, don't you think?

> I really hope RIT Labs will address this very sore point soon. It,
> among a few other things, stick out like a sore thumb.

Maybe we can come up with a suggestion for them. The way TB
currently works is it takes the whole string from the From field and
put it there, without checking for special characters.

I wouldn't want TB to strip out the "name" part (leaving only the
email address) for me, however, since I sometimes want to use the
name instead of the email address for my filter (some people
consistently use a very unique name, but many different addresses).
Likewise, I don't TB to strip out the email address either.

The way TB is doing, while it won't if you just take what it gives
you, it's very convenient for me to decide which part to strip out.
But I agree it's confusing to new users and should be addressed.

Any idea?

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/2 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Possible bug when entering characters using Alt+NumPad

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 8:49:17 PM, Andrey wrote:

> It seems to be impossible to enter characters using their ANSI
> codes via Alt+NumPad in TB message editor when the NumPad acts as
> a cursor control keys :-(.

> The correct behaviour is to ignore the NumPad status.

I'm not sure about this. As Thomas said, different scan codes are
sent to the system when the NumLock status is changed. It's up to
the receiving end (the application, I assume) to decide what to do
with it. While you may want TB to ignore the NumLock status, others
may like it not to. Have you ever seen keyboards without the normal
direction keys (arrows and Home, End, PgUp, PgDn)? I do. And I know
people who prefer using the NumPad as direction keys to the actual
direction keys (out of habits).

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/2 | Win2k SP1

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Re: Execute command ON EXIT

[Ming-Li]

On Thursday, January 04, 2001, 10:28:10 AM, Kari wrote:

> This is the other way round. I call up the backup batch file which
> closes TB. Nice, but not what I was looking for. I will get back
> to this one if Thomas way won't work.

That should work, as you've found out. The only "drawback" of that
approach is an DOS instance (window) for the batch would stay there
the whole time TB is active. It's no big deal, just something I
always try to avoid.

> It's been quite a while... Welcome back.

Thanks. It's been a busy holiday. It happens when you live in a
major tour area and major gateway into the U.S. (from your home
country, no less).

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/2 | Win2k SP1

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Re: New filters don't work?

[Ming-Li]

On Friday, January 05, 2001, 2:31:39 AM, Pete wrote:

> Strings: "John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

As others have pointed out, using only [EMAIL PROTECTED] would work.
The reason is quotation marks in TB's filer strings have special
meaning. It calls for case-sensitive search. So when you put

"John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

in the search string, TB would in fact look for

John Doe<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

where the _John Doe_ part is case-sensitive. As you can see, it
won't match.

Please see the help file for more details (including other special
characters). The help file isn't very good, but it does cover this.

-- 
Best regards,
Ming-Li

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/2 | Win2k SP1

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SUGGESTIONS

[Mark Brown]

Hello  BAT PEOPLE,

1.)

1.48  F   - since this holiday version of the bat only the filters and
all  attempts  to filter the bat mail list messages have failed.  what
have  they  done  to make this stop working i have no bat anywhere and
everywhere  filters  running  out  my  wazoo  about 15 bat filters and
nothing catches them all.

2.)

spell checker suggestion "THIS IS MAKING ME CRAZY" i can not spell for
crap  ok  i  waz  er  high school dropout in fact i really dropped out
mentally  around  the 7  grade.  don't feel sorry for me though i am a
savant and have my own jet.  but you know what even that wouldn't make
me as happy as LISTEN BAT STAFF!

make  the spell checker alphabetize the spelling suggestions according
to the first letter of the word!

example  if  i  misspell  a  word "i can at least get the first letter
correct  so  show  me  all  the  suggestions that start with the first
letter first UNDERSTAND?

HAVE A NICE DAY.

--
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  Mark Brown   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Question re registration

[Michael Richter]

Hello Austin,

you wrote in "Question re registration" on 04.01.2001:


> Does anyone know what the "features available only for registered users"
> are?

> I don't want to miss out on anything :)

The ability to use every new (Beta-)Version of TB!.

-- 
Best regards,
Michael Richter  Bonn,Germany  http://www.godwana.de/thebat/
The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1 [75E6E263] Windows NT Build 1381 



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Re: Thanks for using English!

[Danilo Barbuio]

Hello Gerry,

Friday, January 05, 2001, 2:55:29 PM, you wrote:


GD> From a person who was born and raised in the United States I want to
GD> thank everyone else whose primary language is NOT English.  I
GD> appreciate your willingness to write your comments/e-mails in English.
GD> Oh, how I wish I had not last my secondary Canadian French labguage as
GD> a child.

GD> So, THANKS!!

Prego

(this is italian ... but I think it's ok for this answer :-)))

Ciao (another italian word)

Danilo

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Re: Execute command ON EXIT

[Kari Jakobi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Hello Andrey,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, 05:13:41 h [GMT +0300] (which
was 03:13 h [GMT +0100] where I live) you wrote:

AGSAA> If you want to hide the icon and window completely
AGSAA> you'll need an utility like HideWindow -
AGSAA> http://www.winsite.com/info/pc/win95/desktop/hidewndw.zip/downl.html.

Man, this was a great tip! I appreciate your help very much.
This little proggy is exactly what I have been looking for.
:-)
And it's freeware also. Very useful.
- -- 
Best regards,
Kari Jakobi

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195

To obtain my PGP-Key send a message to:
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGP-KEY_REQUEST
PGP-KEY ID: 0x388CEBFF


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Thanks for using English!

[Gerry Doyon]

Hello everyone!

I have recently purchased The Bat! and like it VERY much.  I also
subscribe to this list server, of course.

>From a person who was born and raised in the United States I want to
thank everyone else whose primary language is NOT English.  I
appreciate your willingness to write your comments/e-mails in English.
Oh, how I wish I had not last my secondary Canadian French labguage as
a child.

So, THANKS!!

-- 
Best regards,
 Gerry Doyon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re[2]: Possible bug when entering characters using Alt+NumPad

[Tim Musson]

Hey Thomas,

Friday, January 05, 2001, 1:13:13 AM, you wrote:

AGSAA>> The correct behaviour is to ignore the NumPad status.

TF> Is that so? I have never heard this. I think if you want to inoput
TF> ASCII codes via AtlNumPad, you have to make sure the NumLock light is
TF> on. It has always been this way, and wouldn't understand why
TF> alt+ on the NumPad should have the same meaning as alt-8 on
TF> the NumPad.

I don't know why, but my different PC's / OS's seem to ignore the
NumLock key when combining with the Alt key for ASCII chars.

Alt+116 = t regardless of the NumLock status for
Win2k/NT/98/95/m$-dos6/5/3/dr-dos7 on ThinkPad/Dell workstation, and
Compaq servers.


-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Bat! v1.48f
Windows NT 5.0.2195 (Service Pack 1)

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Karin Spaink]

On 05-01-2001 at 03:54, Olivier Reubens kindly wrote:

> Contrary to what someone else suggested, xs4all.be is also a member of
> the ISPA and doesn't have an open SMTP server.

I suggested that XS4all.be probably uses SMTP authentication
- which is not the same as an open SMTP. But from a later
post of yours I gathered that you do not want a new account,
so that solution is out anyway.


- K -

-- 

When I get my hands on some money, I'll kiss it's green skin 
And I'll ask it's dirty face: "where the hell have you been?" 
  - Swans: Failure

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[George F. Schoelles]

Hello Jamie,

Friday, January 05, 2001, 12:09:36 AM, you wrote:

JD> A more windows orientated solution is to install NT and a windows
JD> based smtp server. Apart from BackOffice server I've never tried this
JD> method.

I have also seen smtp servers that can be installed in 98/NT/2K. Have
yet to try one But they must work.

--
Best regards,
 George  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thawte authorized WOT Notary   ICQ: 122492
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, 
against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..." the Fourth 
Amendment to the U.S. Constitution 
Nisi Defectum Haud Reficindium  (If it ain't broke, don't fix it) Digitally signed 
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Re: New filters don't work? Yes they do!

[Kevin Tea]

Hi  Pete

Glad to have helped. 

> Which of course makes me wonder why the old strings were created
> differently... or am I just getting demented?!

Just keep taking the tablets >


Regards

Kevin
Batting along with 1.49 Beta 2

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Re: New filters don't work?

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 05:56:06 -0600, Randy contributed this
to our collective wisdom:

RB> It is odd that TB creates a filter string that it cannot later use to
RB> filter mail, don't you think?

I really hope RIT Labs will address this very sore point soon. It,
among a few other things, stick out like a sore thumb.

- --
@~@@~@
 | A. Curtis Martin  [List Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA]  |
 | PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendAlliePGPKey |
@_@   (Opinions given are mine and not those of RITLABS)   @_@
__
TB! v1.48h | Windows NT 5.00.2195 (Service Pack 1)

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Comment: Digitally signed for sender and message authentication.

iQA/AwUBOlXB9FfJ62ArBxfiEQIyKACfbyH6TqukaxUGddPpTLw4scyUxiEAnjsv
RpIT848SV4mUkE8Jgx9Ye0Rh
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Re[3]: New filters don't work? Yes they do!

[Pete P]

Here we go again...


> I have found that you have to manually edit the "strings" to be
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead of "John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .
> 
> It is odd that TB creates a filter string that it cannot later use to
> filter mail, don't you think?

Yes!

Which of course makes me wonder why the old strings were created
differently... or am I just getting demented?! I seem to recall that
in my earlier filters the string was in the style of John
Doe<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, NOT "John Doe"etc.

Oh well. Little tidying up and they work just fine.

Thanks Kevin and Randy for helping me out!


-- 
Best regards,
 Pete



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Re: New filters don't work?

[Manfred Ell]

On 05-01-2001 at 05:56:06GMT -0600 (which was 11:56 where I live)
Randy Breese wrote regarding the subject of "New filters don't work?"


Hello Randy,

Randy> I have found that you have to manually edit the "strings" to be
Randy> [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead of "John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .

Randy> It is odd that TB creates a filter string that it cannot later use to
Randy> filter mail, don't you think?

This is how I always did it because the default wouldn't work. I never
understood why so I took it for granted.

Regards

-- 
Manfred
___
using TheBat 1.48h (FE1905D5) on Windows 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1, RC 1.1


"I'm the crime bill.  Bang!  Bang!" -- Crow T. Robot

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Re[3]: New filters don't work?

[Randy Breese]

> On Friday, January 05, 2001, at approximately 4:31:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>...
> Okay... the first one is set to filter mails from a single person.
> Let's assume his name is John Doe and the address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> I have a folder for him, named JD. The filtering rule is as follows:

> Name: JD
> Source folder: Inbox
> Move messages to folder JD
> Strings: "John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Location: Sender
> Presence: Yes
> Rule is Active

I have found that you have to manually edit the "strings" to be
[EMAIL PROTECTED] instead of "John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> .

It is odd that TB creates a filter string that it cannot later use to
filter mail, don't you think?

Randy





 
 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

 
"Would you tell me please, which way I
have to go from here?" Alice asked.
 
"That depends a good deal on where you
want to get to," said the cat.
 
"I don't much care where," said Alice.
 
"Then it doesn't matter which way you
go," said the cat.
 
from _Alice_in_Wonderland_

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Re: A few questions re attachments

[Markus Gloede]

Hi,

Austin Dennis wrote:

AD> 3. Why is it that sometimes when you get attachments (images), you get tabs
AD> at the bottom of the screen, and sometimes you don't?

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) wrote:

AGS> Well, i think that the bottom tabs presence depends on the message
AGS> internal structure.

I think so too. Check if you have HTML autoview enabled. You might get
the tabs only if the message with the images is in plain text or you
are looking at the plain text alternative of a HTML message.

Regards,

Markus
-- 
Using The Bat! 1.49 Beta/2 under Windows NT 4.0 Build
1381 Service Pack 5 

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Re: Execute command ON EXIT

[Kari Jakobi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Hello Andrey,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001, 05:13:41 h [GMT +0300] (which
was 03:13 h [GMT +0100] where I live) you wrote:

AGSAA> If you want to hide the icon and window completely
AGSAA> you'll need an utility like HideWindow -
[...]

I will have a look at it. Thank you for the tip!

- -- 
Best regards,
Kari Jakobi

The Bat! 1.49 Beta/1 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195

To obtain my PGP-Key send a message to:
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGP-KEY_REQUEST
PGP-KEY ID: 0x388CEBFF


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 7.0
Comment: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

iQA/AwUBOlWwCwdigFw4jOv/EQKBCACgrjHpVSdmhZFc1oHzanh6RozCNRkAoKLz
49wOL5RjWuAbUe0NUqhfIwa6
=Mzqe
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: New filters don't work?

[Kevin Tea]

Hi  Pete 

>Instead of "John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> try [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Regards

Kevin
Batting along with 1.49 Beta 2

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Re[2]: New filters don't work?

[Pete P]

Hello again!


PP>>   Anybody else have new filters - after upgrading to 1.48f... do they
PP>>   work?

AGSAA> Yes, I have created at least 3 filters after the 1.48f installation. Why
AGSAA> don't you describe these two faulty filters?

Okay... the first one is set to filter mails from a single person.
Let's assume his name is John Doe and the address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I have a folder for him, named JD. The filtering rule is as follows:

Name: JD
Source folder: Inbox
Move messages to folder JD
Strings: "John Doe"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Location: Sender
Presence: Yes
Rule is Active

The other one is a filter for a mailing list, similar to the one above
except that the Location is "Recipient". And obviously there's the
name of the mailing list in the string!

No typos, I've checked and double-checked. Both filters are created
with the simplest way - rightclicking in the messagelist and then
Specials / Create filter.

Any ideas, anyone? Im a bit confused. I haven't changed my routines in
creating filters in any way.




-- 
Pete



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Re[4]: New Mail Notification Icon

[David Elliott]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Jamie,

On 05 January 2001 at 08:17:02 + (which was 08:17 where I live) words
of wisdom emanated from Jamie Dainton.

JD> Options --> Icon animation must be checked

It is.

- --
Regards,
 David
 _
| David  Elliott |  Software  Engineer  |  PGP Key ID 0x650F4534  |
| This tagline stolen by me, or was it you??? |

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: PGP Signed, sealed, delivered.

iQA/AwUBOlWZd/mK8eZlD0U0EQJqIwCg60AGFS7/cOXxQhjLvEPm2lfw53cAn1fJ
/wsMjiz3368hsF4JLxM3a9rb
=oUze
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Re: Creating HTML Message

[David Elliott]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Monbebe,

On 05 January 2001 at 07:34:22 +0100 (which was 06:34 where I live) words
of wisdom emanated from Monbebe Admin.

MA> I'm searching 2 sort of tools to create complex HTML messages.

Have you tried looking at PHP server side scripting ?

- --
Regards,
 David
 _
| David  Elliott |  Software  Engineer  |  PGP Key ID 0x650F4534  |
| 6. Did you buy a scanner to get all the taglines off books? |

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: PGP Signed, sealed, delivered.

iQA/AwUBOlWVHvmK8eZlD0U0EQIwAACfaM0CBKN2kx2OUNXAr2LQOenOLbgAmwTT
+p0TB9wXDUGM6gRnsmcrYzAL
=HQ4Q
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re[4]: New Mail Notification Icon

[David Elliott]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Curt,

On 04 January 2001 at 16:22:46 -0500 (which was 21:22 where I live) words
of wisdom emanated from Curt.

DE>> I some time does not on mine. As I don't know how to reproduce it I
DE>> have not sent in a bug report yet.

C> The Bat! flaps when there's unread mail. No mail, no flap.

Correct. That is what it should do. However as I said earlier sometimes it
does not on my system.

I have had the situation where I have got new mail which is not read. The
Bat! does not flap yet when I put the cursor over the icon in the system
tray it tells me that I have unread mail (but not the correct quantity).

When I can reproduce the problem I will send in a bug report.

- --
Regards,
 David
 _
| David  Elliott |  Software  Engineer  |  PGP Key ID 0x650F4534  |
| * <- Tribble  [*] <- Tribble wearing headphones |
| TB 1.49 Beta/1, PGP 6.5.8 under Windows NT Server 5.0 build 2195. SP1   |
| Running on a Lap Top with Intel PIII 700 with 128M RAM  |

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: PGP Signed, sealed, delivered.

iQA/AwUBOlWRk/mK8eZlD0U0EQKJqACgzwqLo/Fr7OXWpbVm5SSm/Ve5LUUAn2xD
/hSHgF0DWfcweA8l6T/ilMj1
=vA8R
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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Jannik,

On Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:20:42 +0100GMT (05/01/2001, 16:20 +0800GMT),
Jannik Lindquist wrote:

j>>> I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
j>>> servers on an account for sending.

JL> Is it something like this that is on the wish list

IIRC the wisher wished that we could define more than one SMTP server
for each account. If the mail doesn't get sent through the first, then
TB will try and send through the second, etc.

JL>  (the link to the
JL> wish list on the FAQ-site seems to be broken)?

Has been for a while. Konstantin, are you still reading this list?

JL> Apparently TB already *has* something like the last of these options -
JL> the "Send Mail from All"-option (accessible via the main toolbar). But
JL> how does this work?

Competely different thing. If you hihlight an account and click on
Send, all messages in the Outbox will be sent. If you click on Send
All, messages from all Outboxes in all Accounts will be sent (unless
you have disabled execution of this command in the Account
Properties).

JL>  I seem to be unable to get TB to do this (though I
JL> must admit I haven't tried for a couple of versions!).

If you have ticked Account / Properties / Options / Ignorem 'Check
all' request, than it won't work. Otherwise, it has worked since I use
TB (v1.34).

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.  

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.48g
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998  
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.

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Re: Creating HTML Message

[Nick Gordon]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello Monbebe,

Friday, January 05, 2001, 6:34:22 AM, you wrote:

MA> I'm searching 2 sort of tools to create complex HTML messages.

MA> - First a software to do it, encode images, adding text message
MA> and so that can link attachment multipart/related inline and not
MA> from an HTTP server.

MA> - a CGI software or url that can do this remotely. For example,
you
MA> specify the text message the url of your HTML page, the From, To,
MA> Subject and other needed fields, and the message is sent
MA> automatically to the receiver, encoded in the same condition as
MA> specified before.

I'm afraid I can't tell you what can do this, but I *can* tell you
that The Bat! won't. It's a plain text emailer with some basic HTL
reading and display features (deliberately basic, I should add)

- --
Best regards,
 Nickmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBOlWRKEqL65Xj7aHMEQLGZwCg2eN3qGqtSqv7l4M/ML4DtMZQLYoAn2n+
gDzrRkTUZCz2qavhA/jkJ2io
=b+8G
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Multiple email everything.

[Jamie Dainton]

Hello Olivier Reubens,
On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:03:12 +0100 GMT your local time,
which was Thursday, January 04, 2001, 23:03:12 (GMT+0100) (BST) my local time,

Olivier Reubens wrote:

OR> None  of  the  Belgium  ISP's however support relaying. I get
OR> 'Relaying Denied' messages if I try. which brings me to problem 


Obtain an old pc. E.g. a P90. Install a *nix/*BSD on it and use it as a
smtp server. This solution works very well if your ISP has a dodgy
mail server (e.g. Lineone). When I'm on the internet in Linux I use
sendmail and have no need for a smtp server.

A more windows orientated solution is to install NT and a windows
based smtp server. Apart from BackOffice server I've never tried this
method.

The third solution is to find an anonymous smtp server which allows
relaying. Such lists can be found at astalavista.box.sk

-- 
 Jamie Dainton  
 On Friday, January 05, 2001 at 08:06:01  
 The Bat! 1.48 Beta/12
 Windows 98 4.10 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=sendKey
 
 I thought I had a back-up, but she refused to type it in again.

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Re[3]: New Mail Notification Icon

[Jamie Dainton]

Hello David Elliott,
On Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:02:36 + GMT your local time,
which was Thursday, January 04, 2001, 18:02:36 (GMT+0100) (BST) my local time,

David Elliott wrote:

DE> I some time does not on mine. As I don't know how to reproduce it I have
DE> not sent in a bug report yet.


Options --> Icon animation must be checked

-- 
 Jamie Dainton  
 On Friday, January 05, 2001 at 08:16:49  
 The Bat! 1.48 Beta/12
 Windows 98 4.10 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=sendKey
 
 Linux: Because rebooting is for adding new hardware.

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Re[2]: Multiple email everything.

[Jannik Lindquist]

Hello Thomas and other TBUDL's,

On Friday, January 05, 2001 at 14:06:32 GMT +0800
Thomas Fernandez wrote on "Multiple email everything.":

j>> I don't know of any mail program that has a provision to switch
j>> servers on an account for sending.

TF> But it's in tghe wsih list for TB. ;-)

Just for the record: In the current version of Becky! it is possible
to choose between these options: "Send from all outboxes using the
*current* mailbox's SMTP-server" and "Send from all outboxes using
*each* mailbox's SMTP-server".

Is it something like this that is on the wish list (the link to the
wish list on the FAQ-site seems to be broken)? It isn't exactly
*switching* mailboxes, of course, but the first option would seem to
solve the first of the two problems starting this thread.

Apparently TB already *has* something like the last of these options -
the "Send Mail from All"-option (accessible via the main toolbar). But
how does this work? I seem to be unable to get TB to do this (though I
must admit I haven't tried for a couple of versions!).


Best regards,

Jannik Lindquist

The Bat! Ver. 1.48h
Windows 98 4 10   A 

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