[tw5] Re: Is there any way to export TiddlyWiki to a list of markdown files?

[Victor Dorneanu]

I've done this before using these instructions here: 
https://davidalfonso.es/posts/migrating-from-tiddlywiki-to-markdown-files

The original gitlab repository from David Alfonso doesn't exist anymore. 
But I've created a fork which you can find here: 
https://gitlab.com/vdorneanu/tiddlywiki-migrator

I've used this method to convert tiddlers to markdown files which then were 
"compiled" by hugo (https://github.com/gohugoio/hugo) to some html files.

Kind regards,
Victor 

On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 7:15:03 AM UTC+1 TW Tones wrote:

> Perhaps some more information.
>
> When you say HTML do you mean a tiddlywiki?
>
> You can make your own templates and export tool, also now with the recent 
> JSZip plugin you can bundle tiddlers into a zip that you can then expand in 
> a folder.
>
> Where you have seen talk of generating static sites you can follow a 
> similar method to generate any filetype you fancy.
>
> Regards
> Tony
>
>
> On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:04:12 UTC+11, Ilyusha Nicolas wrote:
>>
>> I have a html with many tiddlers, with tags and links. I want to find a 
>> way to export this html to a list of markdown files such that each tiddler 
>> corresponds to a markdown file, each link to X shows up as "[[X]]" in the 
>> output markdown file, similarly with tags?
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Cross-link multiple wikis

[Victor Dorneanu]

Hi everybody,

somehow I must have missed the notifications for this thread. First of all 
thanks for your replies. I didn't know TW-Searchwikis before and I think 
that for searching tiddlers in multiple wikis that's definitely the perfect 
tool. 

As for "links between multiple wikis" I'll try to give a more comprehensive 
explanation:


   - the reason why I've splitted "concerns"/domains/contexts in multiple 
   wikis is because of the size: I don't want to have a big bloated wiki, 
   instead I want to have multiple ones 
   - one for the zettelkasten 
  - one for the bibliography
  - individual ones for several domains like IT security, nutrition, 
  sports etc. 
  - one for collection of bookmarks
  - etc.
   - now when I create links e.g. from the *zettelkasten* to the 
   *bibliography* wiki, I also need to specify the location of the wiki as 
   well (like I've described at the beginning of this thread)
  - imagine after some years you'll have hundreds of links from one 
  wiki to another
  - let's say the location of one wiki changes (bib.html changes to 
  bibliography.html) 
  - then I'll have to update the links to reflect the new wiki location 
  (bibliography.html)
  - and that's what I mean by "elegant"
 - regardless of the method I use to interlink between multiple 
 wikis there should be a way to update multiple links easily 
 - and this solution should also work in 15 years :D 
  - one thing that is not solved yet (at least I haven't found a 
   solution):
  - let's stick to the *zettelkasten* -> *bibliography* example (you 
  have several tiddlers in *zettelkasten* containing links to tiddlers 
  in *bibliography*)
  - inserting links in the *zettelkasten* to some tiddlers in the 
  *bibliography* wiki is easy (I still use the macro mentioned before)
  - but how do I show *backlinks* in the *bibliography* wiki?
 - more specific: how can I show which tiddlers in the 
 *zettelkasten* wiki point to _this_ specific tiddler in the 
 *bibliography* wiki?
 
I hope my post is not that confusing. I'm looking forward to your comments 
and suggestions. 

Victor 
On Thursday, November 5, 2020 at 7:05:57 AM UTC+1 TW Tones wrote:

> Victor,
>
> I will backup David's suggestion of Mohammad's searchWikis because you can 
> link to specific tiddler in another wiki but they key is what you want to 
> achieve. 
>
> The first rule is you can do anything with links you can on any website, 
> use permalinks and permaviews, drag and drop between wikis, iframe one in 
> another and create link that open in the the same target windows/tab. Bob 
> or bobexe is critical if you may open the same wiki for edit in different 
> tabs, windows or browsers.
>
> Copy to clipboard is a way to take a search string from one wiki to 
> another and a lot more can be done.
>
> I recently responded to someone else's questions on the same subject and 
> someone else was talking about capturing bookmarks with tiddlywiki which 
> can include tiddlywiki itself.
>
> Regards
> Tones
>
>
> On Sunday, 13 September 2020 20:29:22 UTC+10, Victor Dorneanu wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if this topic has been discussed somewhere else, but I'd 
>> like to know if there is any "elegant" solution how to create links between 
>> tiddlers in different wikis. 
>>
>> I've recently found Tobi Beer's quick'n'dirty solution 
>>  which uses several macros to 
>> have something like:
>>
>> <<. docs Documentation>>
>>
>> to link to a tiddler called "Documentation" in the "docs" wiki. If you 
>> look at *$:/editions/docs *you'll see a "src" field where the location 
>> of the wiki is specified (in that case docs.html). 
>>
>> I use the same approach for my personal Zettelkasten 
>>  where I have:
>>
>> 1) one TW instance (single HTML file) for the knowledge base
>> 2) one TW instance (single HTML file) for bibliography and sources (web 
>> articles etc.)
>>
>> Are there any other ways to implement this? Thanks in advance. 
>>
>> KR, 
>> Victor 
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Is there any way to export TiddlyWiki to a list of markdown files?

[TW Tones]

Perhaps some more information.

When you say HTML do you mean a tiddlywiki?

You can make your own templates and export tool, also now with the recent 
JSZip plugin you can bundle tiddlers into a zip that you can then expand in 
a folder.

Where you have seen talk of generating static sites you can follow a 
similar method to generate any filetype you fancy.

Regards
Tony


On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 21:04:12 UTC+11, Ilyusha Nicolas wrote:
>
> I have a html with many tiddlers, with tags and links. I want to find a 
> way to export this html to a list of markdown files such that each tiddler 
> corresponds to a markdown file, each link to X shows up as "[[X]]" in the 
> output markdown file, similarly with tags?
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Cross-link multiple wikis

[TW Tones]

Victor,

I will backup David's suggestion of Mohammad's searchWikis because you can 
link to specific tiddler in another wiki but they key is what you want to 
achieve. 

The first rule is you can do anything with links you can on any website, 
use permalinks and permaviews, drag and drop between wikis, iframe one in 
another and create link that open in the the same target windows/tab. Bob 
or bobexe is critical if you may open the same wiki for edit in different 
tabs, windows or browsers.

Copy to clipboard is a way to take a search string from one wiki to another 
and a lot more can be done.

I recently responded to someone else's questions on the same subject and 
someone else was talking about capturing bookmarks with tiddlywiki which 
can include tiddlywiki itself.

Regards
Tones

On Sunday, 13 September 2020 20:29:22 UTC+10, Victor Dorneanu wrote:
>
> I don't know if this topic has been discussed somewhere else, but I'd like 
> to know if there is any "elegant" solution how to create links between 
> tiddlers in different wikis. 
>
> I've recently found Tobi Beer's quick'n'dirty solution 
>  which uses several macros to 
> have something like:
>
> <<. docs Documentation>>
>
> to link to a tiddler called "Documentation" in the "docs" wiki. If you 
> look at *$:/editions/docs *you'll see a "src" field where the location of 
> the wiki is specified (in that case docs.html). 
>
> I use the same approach for my personal Zettelkasten 
>  where I have:
>
> 1) one TW instance (single HTML file) for the knowledge base
> 2) one TW instance (single HTML file) for bibliography and sources (web 
> articles etc.)
>
> Are there any other ways to implement this? Thanks in advance. 
>
> KR, 
> Victor 
>

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[tw5] Re: HOWTO: Upload files/images to cloud storage automatically

[Carlos R]

Sorry still new to tiddly, I ran into trouble running the script. Could you 
share what these are? 

   - $:/blog/templates/empty_text
   - $:/blog/templates/moved_field
   - $:/blog/templates/canonical-uri-external-image

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 5:32:13 PM UTC-8 Carlos R wrote:

> This is extremely helpful I will give a shot using dropbox.
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 2:58:47 AM UTC-8 digit...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> With both my nodejs and single file wikis I import images normally and 
>> then occasionally run a script that moves them to an external directory and 
>> creates a placemarker tiddler with a canonical uri:
>>
>>
>> #!/bin/bash
>>
>> myyear=$(date +"%Y")
>> mymonth=$(date +"%m")
>>
>> tiddlywiki --save [is[image]!tag[header-img]!moved[yes]] 
>> [addprefix[./images/$myyear/$mymonth/]] \ # moves image to directory based 
>> on year/month
>>--setfield [is[image]!tag[header-img]!moved[yes]] 
>> _canonical_uri $:/blog/templates/canonical-uri-external-image text/plain
>>
>> tiddlywiki --setfield [is[image]!moved[yes]] text 
>> $:/blog/templates/empty_text text/plain \
>>--setfield [is[image]!moved[yes]] moved 
>> $:/blog/templates/moved_field text/plain
>>
>> Setting a field to 'moved' is crucial because otherwise tiddlywiki will 
>> perform this operation on an emptied image and overwrite the original.
>>
>> So locally you could move the files to a synced folder or on a server it 
>> might be a bit more complicated.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 9:52:41 PM UTC-5, Carlos R wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am using nodejs version and I want a way to automatically upload files 
>>> to a cloud storage service such as dropbox. Has anyone attempted this? I 
>>> like to take screen shots with my notes and it's a bit cumbersome to have 
>>> to manually link files/images.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Exporting HTML file (Bob)

[Joshua Fontany]

Jed,

Awesome to hear you are updating the Secure Login plugin for Bob. I will 
definitely be testing it out when it is available. :)

Best,
Joshua F

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 5:05:40 AM UTC-8 justinehe...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thank you Jed! I will surely wait for it. Till then, I will just use the 
> wiki for myself :)
>
> On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 at 20:54:22 UTC+8 inmy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am not sure when I am going to be finished with it, I am hoping to have 
>> something working this week but documentation an da reasonable UI are going 
>> to take longer. I will announce it on here when it is ready for general 
>> use, I will put what I have in a public git repo sometime today, but it 
>> doesn't have much in the way of documentation.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 1:29:21 PM UTC+1 justinehe...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> May I know when will it be released? or not? Anyways, thank you for 
>>> letting me know. I will look forward to it, thank you so much :D
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 at 18:03:25 UTC+8 inmy...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I haven't done much with the export since fixing the file server, so I 
 haven't updated the export yet. My plan is to have it copy all of the 
 media 
 files into a files folder next to the output html file and update all of 
 the _canonical_uri tiddlers.

 I am currently updating the secure login server for hosting Bob online, 
 hopefully that will be ready soon, then you can have proper access 
 controls 
 for an online wiki.

 On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 3:24:07 AM UTC+1 
 justinehe...@gmail.com wrote:

> If I exported the html file of my wiki where there are externally 
> referenced files, is there a way I can do for the files to show up other 
> than disabling the file server option? I want to send the html version of 
> my wiki to my friends so that they can take a look at my school notes 
> without the html file being large and hard to download and they can see 
> the 
> imported images and documents without it being a blank tiddler. I also 
> think that I'll be considering hosting my wiki online if that's possible. 
>


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[tw5] Re: Cross-link multiple wikis

[David Gifford]

I don't know if it meets your criteria for 'elegant', but try 
https://kookma.github.io/TW-Searchwikis/

In a nutshell, you create indexes in content wikis, transfer the indexes to 
a central index wiki, and it searches the indexes and the links are links 
to the tiddlers in the content wikis.

See an early, modified version of it in action at my Spanish site 
https://giffmex.org/wiki/.  'testamento' is the search term in the busqueda 
tab, and below the search window you can see the results from the indexes 
of numerous files. The links are external links to the tiddlers in other 
files that contain the content.

The only drawback to this is that you need to remember to redo the index 
each time you edit the file, and also add the index tiddler to the central 
file where the search is. Since both of the people posting here are only 
talking about two files total, that makes it easy.

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 5:29:22 AM UTC-5 Victor Dorneanu wrote:

> I don't know if this topic has been discussed somewhere else, but I'd like 
> to know if there is any "elegant" solution how to create links between 
> tiddlers in different wikis. 
>
> I've recently found Tobi Beer's quick'n'dirty solution 
>  which uses several macros to 
> have something like:
>
> <<. docs Documentation>>
>
> to link to a tiddler called "Documentation" in the "docs" wiki. If you 
> look at *$:/editions/docs *you'll see a "src" field where the location of 
> the wiki is specified (in that case docs.html). 
>
> I use the same approach for my personal Zettelkasten 
>  where I have:
>
> 1) one TW instance (single HTML file) for the knowledge base
> 2) one TW instance (single HTML file) for bibliography and sources (web 
> articles etc.)
>
> Are there any other ways to implement this? Thanks in advance. 
>
> KR, 
> Victor 
>

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[tw5] Re: HOWTO: Upload files/images to cloud storage automatically

[Carlos R]

This is extremely helpful I will give a shot using dropbox.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 2:58:47 AM UTC-8 digit...@gmail.com wrote:

> With both my nodejs and single file wikis I import images normally and 
> then occasionally run a script that moves them to an external directory and 
> creates a placemarker tiddler with a canonical uri:
>
>
> #!/bin/bash
>
> myyear=$(date +"%Y")
> mymonth=$(date +"%m")
>
> tiddlywiki --save [is[image]!tag[header-img]!moved[yes]] 
> [addprefix[./images/$myyear/$mymonth/]] \ # moves image to directory based 
> on year/month
>--setfield [is[image]!tag[header-img]!moved[yes]] 
> _canonical_uri $:/blog/templates/canonical-uri-external-image text/plain
>
> tiddlywiki --setfield [is[image]!moved[yes]] text 
> $:/blog/templates/empty_text text/plain \
>--setfield [is[image]!moved[yes]] moved 
> $:/blog/templates/moved_field text/plain
>
> Setting a field to 'moved' is crucial because otherwise tiddlywiki will 
> perform this operation on an emptied image and overwrite the original.
>
> So locally you could move the files to a synced folder or on a server it 
> might be a bit more complicated.
>
>
> On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 9:52:41 PM UTC-5, Carlos R wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am using nodejs version and I want a way to automatically upload files 
>> to a cloud storage service such as dropbox. Has anyone attempted this? I 
>> like to take screen shots with my notes and it's a bit cumbersome to have 
>> to manually link files/images.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Lightweight diagrams (e.g. concept maps)?

[Sean Boyle]

@jermolene, have you heard of any projects along this line?

On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 10:11:41 AM UTC-8 Sean Boyle wrote:

> The mermaid (
> https://mermaid-js.github.io/mermaid/diagrams-and-syntax-and-examples/gantt.html)
>  
> plugin supports gantt, but it is a bit quirky.  IIRC, the mermaid plugin 
> was released but abandoned.  The types of diagrams that the parent project 
> supports at this point are:
> * flowchart
> * sequence diagrams
> * class diagrams
> * state diagrams
> * entity relationship diagrams (ERD)
> * user journey diagram (I had never even heard of these before seeing it 
> on the mermaid site)
> * gantt chart
> * pie chart
>
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 5:22:13 AM UTC-8 Ste wrote:
>
>> All for diagrams and drawings! I find myself using a variety of tools 
>> though as lot of packages don't do things like dimensions/ line lengths or 
>> a centre lineI basically want AutoCAD LT but for .svg :) 
>> https://editor.method.ac/ does in a pinch for simple stuff.  Bizarrely 
>> PowerPoint has quite robust drawing and line animation features these 
>> days!...reads back...GANTT charts you say?!  where?
>>
>> On Monday, 2 November 2020 at 20:25:23 UTC Sean Boyle wrote:
>>
>>> It feels silly replying to myself, but...
>>>
>>> Some possibilities are:
>>>
>>>- mxgraph - this is the basis for draw.io, which has a GUI, &c.  A 
>>>GUI is not strictly necessary, but would be handy for some things - free
>>>- JointJS - Seems to support the usual diagram types, including BPMN 
>>>free
>>>- yEd - I really like the layout options, being able to import SVG 
>>>nodes.  It is free for any use, but if the underlying libraries (yFiles) 
>>>are to be used, they have commercial licencing..
>>>
>>> The trick is finding someone with the chops to be able to integrate 
>>> something like one of these, then stick around to update from time to 
>>> time.  I get the impression that most people are not really interested in 
>>> diagrams to sit alongside the notes in a tiddler.  The closest thing so far 
>>> is viz and railroad, which are both rather limited.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 9:26:00 AM UTC-7 Sean Boyle wrote:
>>>
 Hi Victor,
 Thanks for the reply!

 Yes, I tried out PlantUML (nice sequence diagram, btw).  I don't know 
 if it is still that way, but it used to be that the drawing was pushed to 
 an internet server for processing.  I'm more interested in something which 
 is self-contained, especially since some of my diagrams could be 
 considered 
 sensitive, but in general I like self-contained solutions.  Some others 
 which I have tried out are:
 * Mermaid
 * Graphviz
 * Railroad
 * Tidgraph
 * edit in an external tool, render, and import the SVG (usually yEd)


 On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 6:54:19 AM UTC-7 Victor Dorneanu wrote:

> Hi,
>
> there is also PlantUML: 
> http://tobibeer.github.io/tw5-plugins/#plantuml
>
> I've used this for some proof-of-concept I was doing:
> https://tiddly.info/serverless#about
>
> KR, 
> Victor 
>
> On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 1:08:57 AM UTC+1 Sean Boyle wrote:
>
>> Pinging this topic again.  It appears that diagramming plugins come, 
>> then are abandoned.  I have taken to using graphviz (viz plugin) and it 
>> works reasonably well (only a bit quirky) and if there were some 
>> reasonable 
>> ways of adding symbols for creating graphs such as flowchart, CORAS, 
>> BPMN, 
>> sequence, communication diagrams, it would fulfill 90% of my needs.  
>> Having 
>> said that, are there any efforts out there for incorporating lightweight 
>> graphing with extensible symbol sets, or diagramming?
>>
>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 2:00:59 PM UTC-7 Sean Boyle wrote:
>>
>>> I found that sequence diagrammes seem to copy / paste, but DAG and 
>>> GANTT do not.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 1:44:16 PM UTC-7, Sean Boyle wrote:

 My workaround is to use the online editor: 
 https://mermaidjs.github.io/mermaid-live-editor/#/edit/eyJjb2RlIjoiZ3JhcGggVERcbkFbQ2hyaXN0bWFzXSAtLT58R2V0IG1vbmV5fCBCKEdvIHNob3BwaW5nKVxuQiAtLT4gQ3tMZXQgbWUgdGhpbmt9XG5DIC0tPnxPbmV8IERbTGFwdG9wXVxuQyAtLT58VHdvfCBFW2lQaG9uZV1cbkMgLS0-fFRocmVlfCBGW0Nhcl1cbiIsIm1lcm1haWQiOnsidGhlbWUiOiJkZWZhdWx0In19
  , 
 save as SVG, import to TW, and transclude.  That seems to work OK for 
 copy/paste to other windows.  It does seem to be a problem for other 
 graphical stuff, like railroad diagrams.

 On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 4:39:51 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Ciao Sean
>
> I agree that Mermaid for TiddlyWiki is good. Its simple plain text 
> syntax is excellent and fits TW editing style very well. 
>
> Regarding the non-printabil

[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[TW Tones]

Mark,

As I understand it this is already possible. External Javascript.

I also wonder if one could selectively remove code not used, however this 
would need an analysis process. And an exclusion on save, perhaps an 
alternate core plugin.

The dynamic range of application of tiddlywiki would possibly be enhanced 
with a lower size however in todays world we most often have sufficient 
overheads that reduction has less benefit than being comprehensive or self 
documented. 

Regards
Tony

On Thursday, 5 November 2020 08:12:12 UTC+11, Mark S. wrote:
>
> If TW5 could be made to run like javascript, then you could separate the 
> core from the working files. So you could have a local core library which 
> all your tiddlywiki files could resource, without having to include them in 
> every download/upload/save.
>
> On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 11:00:21 PM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:
>>
>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
>> recent releases. 
>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
>> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>>
>> Release   Size (kb)
>> 5.1.12   1820
>> 5.1.15   2025
>> 5.1.17   2033
>> 5.1.19   2153
>> 5.1.21   2235
>> 5.1.22   2197
>> 5.1.12   2282
>>
>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
>> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
>> before going to have bigger empty.html
>>
>>
>> Suggestions
>> *A. Use official plugins*
>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
>> everything extra)
>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>>
>> *B. Start a new generation *
>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>>
>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
>> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
>> filters)
>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
>> 6. ...
>>
>> I am sure people can suggest more here
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
>> solutions in Tiddlywiki
>> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
>> tiddlers
>> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
>> trashbin tool
>> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
>> bookmarking tool
>> TW-Todolist  organize, 
>> prioritize, and plan your work
>>
>> https://github.com/kookma
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Cross-link multiple wikis

[skaczm...@gmail.com]

I want to achieve the same on my Zettelkasten type wiki. I want separate 
wiki just for resources and implement them in other knowledge management 
wiki. 

niedziela, 13 września 2020 o 12:29:22 UTC+2 Victor Dorneanu napisał(a):

> I don't know if this topic has been discussed somewhere else, but I'd like 
> to know if there is any "elegant" solution how to create links between 
> tiddlers in different wikis. 
>
> I've recently found Tobi Beer's quick'n'dirty solution 
>  which uses several macros to 
> have something like:
>
> <<. docs Documentation>>
>
> to link to a tiddler called "Documentation" in the "docs" wiki. If you 
> look at *$:/editions/docs *you'll see a "src" field where the location of 
> the wiki is specified (in that case docs.html). 
>
> I use the same approach for my personal Zettelkasten 
>  where I have:
>
> 1) one TW instance (single HTML file) for the knowledge base
> 2) one TW instance (single HTML file) for bibliography and sources (web 
> articles etc.)
>
> Are there any other ways to implement this? Thanks in advance. 
>
> KR, 
> Victor 
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

If TW5 could be made to run like javascript, then you could separate the 
core from the working files. So you could have a local core library which 
all your tiddlywiki files could resource, without having to include them in 
every download/upload/save.

On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 11:00:21 PM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:
>
> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
> recent releases. 
> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>
> Release   Size (kb)
> 5.1.12   1820
> 5.1.15   2025
> 5.1.17   2033
> 5.1.19   2153
> 5.1.21   2235
> 5.1.22   2197
> 5.1.12   2282
>
> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
> before going to have bigger empty.html
>
>
> Suggestions
> *A. Use official plugins*
> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
> everything extra)
> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>
> *B. Start a new generation *
> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>
> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
> filters)
> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
> 6. ...
>
> I am sure people can suggest more here
>
>
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
>
> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
> solutions in Tiddlywiki
> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
> tiddlers
> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki trashbin 
> tool
> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
> bookmarking tool
> TW-Todolist  organize, prioritize, 
> and plan your work
>
> https://github.com/kookma
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[dieg...@gmail.com]

All,

Out of curiosity, when we say TW is big, what do we mean? relative to what? 
TWC? Anything else besides that? 

What is the incentive to make it smaller and smaller? Something like: "The 
smaller TW gets, the more we _"?

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 2:52:00 PM UTC-6 TW Tones wrote:

> Mohammad,
>
> I think you will find empty.html is near its smallest, and as speeds and 
> storage increases this size becomes even less important, but yes we hope 
> tiddlywiki is universal, and there are very different circumstances the 
> world over.
>
>
>- On the server side there is a way to externalise javascript and of 
>course make use of skinny tiddlers so arguably you could reduce the size 
>"served" at least initially.
>- Also since tiddlywiki is a single file there are arguments that its 
>performance after initial load is higher and caching and CDN's may work 
>better.
>- Always use a splash screen to accommodate slow loading tiddlywikis.
>
>
> Have you some pressing issues that makes you to take this path to minimise?
>
> To me the same efforts would be better targeted.
>
> Regards
> Tones
>
>
> On Thursday, 5 November 2020 03:37:12 UTC+11, Mohammad wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:29:19 PM UTC+3:30 Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:

 Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
 search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
 965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
 tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)

>>>
>>> You could hard-code the expressions into the system. However, it appears 
>>> that there is only about 60 bytes overhead per expression. So you would 
>>> only save 95kb (965 * 60) and you would lose a lot of flexibility.
>>>
>>> I don't think there's  enough cruft in TW to pare it down to 1 M. The 
>>> only way to get it down would be to rewrite major sections in Javascript.
>>>
>>
>> I have not gone deep in TW core, but considering organic growth of TW it 
>> should be true!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[TW Tones]

Mohammad,

I think you will find empty.html is near its smallest, and as speeds and 
storage increases this size becomes even less important, but yes we hope 
tiddlywiki is universal, and there are very different circumstances the 
world over.


   - On the server side there is a way to externalise javascript and of 
   course make use of skinny tiddlers so arguably you could reduce the size 
   "served" at least initially.
   - Also since tiddlywiki is a single file there are arguments that its 
   performance after initial load is higher and caching and CDN's may work 
   better.
   - Always use a splash screen to accommodate slow loading tiddlywikis.


Have you some pressing issues that makes you to take this path to minimise?

To me the same efforts would be better targeted.

Regards
Tones

On Thursday, 5 November 2020 03:37:12 UTC+11, Mohammad wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:29:19 PM UTC+3:30 Mark S. wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:
>>>
>>> Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
>>> search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
>>> 965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
>>> tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)
>>>
>>
>> You could hard-code the expressions into the system. However, it appears 
>> that there is only about 60 bytes overhead per expression. So you would 
>> only save 95kb (965 * 60) and you would lose a lot of flexibility.
>>
>> I don't think there's  enough cruft in TW to pare it down to 1 M. The 
>> only way to get it down would be to rewrite major sections in Javascript.
>>
>
> I have not gone deep in TW core, but considering organic growth of TW it 
> should be true!
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[Mohammad]

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:29:19 PM UTC+3:30 Mark S. wrote:

>
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:
>>
>> Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
>> search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
>> 965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
>> tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)
>>
>
> You could hard-code the expressions into the system. However, it appears 
> that there is only about 60 bytes overhead per expression. So you would 
> only save 95kb (965 * 60) and you would lose a lot of flexibility.
>
> I don't think there's  enough cruft in TW to pare it down to 1 M. The only 
> way to get it down would be to rewrite major sections in Javascript.
>

I have not gone deep in TW core, but considering organic growth of TW it 
should be true!

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:
>
> Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
> search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
> 965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
> tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)
>

You could hard-code the expressions into the system. However, it appears 
that there is only about 60 bytes overhead per expression. So you would 
only save 95kb (965 * 60) and you would lose a lot of flexibility.

I don't think there's  enough cruft in TW to pare it down to 1 M. The only 
way to get it down would be to rewrite major sections in Javascript.


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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

On a desktop with a local file, it doesn't make much difference. But on a 
small, older  device  over a slow data feed larger sizes will mean longer 
loading times and slower operation.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:07:30 AM UTC-8, odin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Pardon my ignorance. But what are the benefits of a smaller empty TW5? It 
> seemed to be implied in this thread that this is the case.
>
> Op woensdag 4 november 2020 om 16:00:09 UTC+1 schreef Mohammad:
>
>> Hi David,
>>  I assume other language shall be installed on demand!
>> I have downloaded the latest empty.html from 
>> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/
>>
>> *These are some facts*
>>
>> $:/core
>> has 2047 tiddlers and occupies around *1781 kb*
>>
>> Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
>> search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
>> 965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
>> tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)
>>
>> There is two themes distributed with empty.html
>> 1. Vanilla: *73.5 kb*
>> 2. Snowwhite: *3 kb* 
>>
>> There are 16 palettes in $:/core which occupies *66 kb*
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 5:00:17 PM UTC+3:30 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>> One thing that takes up space is the set of language tiddlers for 
>>> translating to other languages. English-speakers don't need those, usually. 
>>> What if those could be a plugin? Or else an English-only version stripped 
>>> of those tiddlers? Feels arrogant and colonial even mentioning it. I only 
>>> mention it as one area where TiddlyWiki could be at least a little lighter.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 1:00:21 AM UTC-6 Mohammad wrote:
>>>
 Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
 recent releases. 
 From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One 
 question is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the 
 below table

 Release   Size (kb)
 5.1.12   1820
 5.1.15   2025
 5.1.17   2033
 5.1.19   2153
 5.1.21   2235
 5.1.22   2197
 5.1.12   2282

 While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can 
 be? Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
 Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
 before going to have bigger empty.html


 Suggestions
 *A. Use official plugins*
 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
 everything extra)
 2. Put extra features in official plugins

 *B. Start a new generation *
 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes

 If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
 compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile 
 approach, like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi 
 input filters)
 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
 grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
 6. ...

 I am sure people can suggest more here


 Best wishes
 Mohammad

 TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
 solutions in Tiddlywiki
 TW-Commander  bulk operations 
 on tiddlers
 TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
 trashbin tool
 TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
 bookmarking tool
 TW-Todolist  organize, 
 prioritize, and plan your work

 https://github.com/kookma



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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[Mohammad]

With a little customization it gets 3 to 4 MB in size and it is a bit heavy 
for single html!

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:37:30 PM UTC+3:30 odin...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Pardon my ignorance. But what are the benefits of a smaller empty TW5? It 
> seemed to be implied in this thread that this is the case.
>
> Op woensdag 4 november 2020 om 16:00:09 UTC+1 schreef Mohammad:
>
>> Hi David,
>>  I assume other language shall be installed on demand!
>> I have downloaded the latest empty.html from 
>> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/
>>
>> *These are some facts*
>>
>> $:/core
>> has 2047 tiddlers and occupies around *1781 kb*
>>
>> Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
>> search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
>> 965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
>> tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)
>>
>> There is two themes distributed with empty.html
>> 1. Vanilla: *73.5 kb*
>> 2. Snowwhite: *3 kb* 
>>
>> There are 16 palettes in $:/core which occupies *66 kb*
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 5:00:17 PM UTC+3:30 David Gifford wrote:
>>
>>> One thing that takes up space is the set of language tiddlers for 
>>> translating to other languages. English-speakers don't need those, usually. 
>>> What if those could be a plugin? Or else an English-only version stripped 
>>> of those tiddlers? Feels arrogant and colonial even mentioning it. I only 
>>> mention it as one area where TiddlyWiki could be at least a little lighter.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 1:00:21 AM UTC-6 Mohammad wrote:
>>>
 Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
 recent releases. 
 From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One 
 question is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the 
 below table

 Release   Size (kb)
 5.1.12   1820
 5.1.15   2025
 5.1.17   2033
 5.1.19   2153
 5.1.21   2235
 5.1.22   2197
 5.1.12   2282

 While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can 
 be? Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
 Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
 before going to have bigger empty.html


 Suggestions
 *A. Use official plugins*
 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
 everything extra)
 2. Put extra features in official plugins

 *B. Start a new generation *
 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes

 If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
 compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile 
 approach, like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi 
 input filters)
 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
 grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
 6. ...

 I am sure people can suggest more here


 Best wishes
 Mohammad

 TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
 solutions in Tiddlywiki
 TW-Commander  bulk operations 
 on tiddlers
 TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
 trashbin tool
 TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
 bookmarking tool
 TW-Todolist  organize, 
 prioritize, and plan your work

 https://github.com/kookma



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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[Mohammad]

Hi Mark,

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 6:20:13 PM UTC+3:30 Mark S. wrote:

> What makes you think that TW *can* be stripped down?
>

I am not quite familiar with  JS code behind the scene, but I see some of 
backward compatibility, some of non essential features can be stripped out 
and distributed in form of official plugin! Even filters and widgets can be 
cleaned and selected based on good programming styles and extra ones 
stripped out. But yes someone knows the Tiddlywiki internals can give a 
much more accurate measure of what really can be stripped out!

>
> TW was *born* overweight, compared to TWC.
>
Yep! 

>
> My guess is that the reason TW5 is so much bigger, is that so much of the 
> core is written in wikitext instead of javascript. This makes TW5 
> extensible, but also bulkier.
>
I think so!
 

>
>
> On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 11:00:21 PM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:
>>
>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
>> recent releases. 
>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
>> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>>
>> Release   Size (kb)
>> 5.1.12   1820
>> 5.1.15   2025
>> 5.1.17   2033
>> 5.1.19   2153
>> 5.1.21   2235
>> 5.1.22   2197
>> 5.1.12   2282
>>
>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
>> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
>> before going to have bigger empty.html
>>
>>
>> Suggestions
>> *A. Use official plugins*
>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
>> everything extra)
>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>>
>> *B. Start a new generation *
>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>>
>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
>> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
>> filters)
>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
>> 6. ...
>>
>> I am sure people can suggest more here
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
>> solutions in Tiddlywiki
>> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
>> tiddlers
>> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
>> trashbin tool
>> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
>> bookmarking tool
>> TW-Todolist  organize, 
>> prioritize, and plan your work
>>
>> https://github.com/kookma
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[odin...@gmail.com]

Pardon my ignorance. But what are the benefits of a smaller empty TW5? It 
seemed to be implied in this thread that this is the case.

Op woensdag 4 november 2020 om 16:00:09 UTC+1 schreef Mohammad:

> Hi David,
>  I assume other language shall be installed on demand!
> I have downloaded the latest empty.html from 
> https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/
>
> *These are some facts*
>
> $:/core
> has 2047 tiddlers and occupies around *1781 kb*
>
> Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
> search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
> 965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
> tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)
>
> There is two themes distributed with empty.html
> 1. Vanilla: *73.5 kb*
> 2. Snowwhite: *3 kb* 
>
> There are 16 palettes in $:/core which occupies *66 kb*
>
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 5:00:17 PM UTC+3:30 David Gifford wrote:
>
>> One thing that takes up space is the set of language tiddlers for 
>> translating to other languages. English-speakers don't need those, usually. 
>> What if those could be a plugin? Or else an English-only version stripped 
>> of those tiddlers? Feels arrogant and colonial even mentioning it. I only 
>> mention it as one area where TiddlyWiki could be at least a little lighter.
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 1:00:21 AM UTC-6 Mohammad wrote:
>>
>>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
>>> recent releases. 
>>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One 
>>> question is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the 
>>> below table
>>>
>>> Release   Size (kb)
>>> 5.1.12   1820
>>> 5.1.15   2025
>>> 5.1.17   2033
>>> 5.1.19   2153
>>> 5.1.21   2235
>>> 5.1.22   2197
>>> 5.1.12   2282
>>>
>>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
>>> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
>>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
>>> before going to have bigger empty.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Suggestions
>>> *A. Use official plugins*
>>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
>>> everything extra)
>>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>>>
>>> *B. Start a new generation *
>>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
>>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
>>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>>>
>>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
>>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
>>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
>>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile 
>>> approach, like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi 
>>> input filters)
>>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
>>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
>>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
>>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
>>> 6. ...
>>>
>>> I am sure people can suggest more here
>>>
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Mohammad
>>>
>>> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
>>> solutions in Tiddlywiki
>>> TW-Commander  bulk operations 
>>> on tiddlers
>>> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
>>> trashbin tool
>>> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
>>> bookmarking tool
>>> TW-Todolist  organize, 
>>> prioritize, and plan your work
>>>
>>> https://github.com/kookma
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[Mohammad]

Hi David,
 I assume other language shall be installed on demand!
I have downloaded the latest empty.html 
from https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/

*These are some facts*

$:/core
has 2047 tiddlers and occupies around *1781 kb*

Listing all tiddlers with language word in their title using advanced 
search [all[shadows]prefix[$:/]search:title[language]]   results in 
965 tiddlers and they are *115 kb* (I am not sure how part of these 
tiddlers can be distributed separately as language pack)

There is two themes distributed with empty.html
1. Vanilla: *73.5 kb*
2. Snowwhite: *3 kb* 

There are 16 palettes in $:/core which occupies *66 kb*

Best wishes
Mohammad

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 5:00:17 PM UTC+3:30 David Gifford wrote:

> One thing that takes up space is the set of language tiddlers for 
> translating to other languages. English-speakers don't need those, usually. 
> What if those could be a plugin? Or else an English-only version stripped 
> of those tiddlers? Feels arrogant and colonial even mentioning it. I only 
> mention it as one area where TiddlyWiki could be at least a little lighter.
>
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 1:00:21 AM UTC-6 Mohammad wrote:
>
>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
>> recent releases. 
>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
>> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>>
>> Release   Size (kb)
>> 5.1.12   1820
>> 5.1.15   2025
>> 5.1.17   2033
>> 5.1.19   2153
>> 5.1.21   2235
>> 5.1.22   2197
>> 5.1.12   2282
>>
>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
>> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
>> before going to have bigger empty.html
>>
>>
>> Suggestions
>> *A. Use official plugins*
>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
>> everything extra)
>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>>
>> *B. Start a new generation *
>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>>
>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
>> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
>> filters)
>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
>> 6. ...
>>
>> I am sure people can suggest more here
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
>> solutions in Tiddlywiki
>> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
>> tiddlers
>> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
>> trashbin tool
>> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
>> bookmarking tool
>> TW-Todolist  organize, 
>> prioritize, and plan your work
>>
>> https://github.com/kookma
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

What makes you think that TW *can* be stripped down?

TW was *born* overweight, compared to TWC.

My guess is that the reason TW5 is so much bigger, is that so much of the 
core is written in wikitext instead of javascript. This makes TW5 
extensible, but also bulkier.

On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 11:00:21 PM UTC-8, Mohammad wrote:
>
> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
> recent releases. 
> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>
> Release   Size (kb)
> 5.1.12   1820
> 5.1.15   2025
> 5.1.17   2033
> 5.1.19   2153
> 5.1.21   2235
> 5.1.22   2197
> 5.1.12   2282
>
> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
> before going to have bigger empty.html
>
>
> Suggestions
> *A. Use official plugins*
> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
> everything extra)
> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>
> *B. Start a new generation *
> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>
> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
> filters)
> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
> 6. ...
>
> I am sure people can suggest more here
>
>
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
>
> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
> solutions in Tiddlywiki
> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
> tiddlers
> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki trashbin 
> tool
> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
> bookmarking tool
> TW-Todolist  organize, prioritize, 
> and plan your work
>
> https://github.com/kookma
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Autosave on Firefox: how to?

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

I'm not a Mac person, but it sounds like you need to set the "executable" 
property.

Possibly you could do this by right-clicking on the file and selecting 
properties (or something similar).

Or possibly, open a terminal in the same directory as the file and type

chmod 744 timimi-2-1-1-Mac

Hopefully a Mac person will wander in and explain better.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 3:10:20 AM UTC-8, IvanPsy wrote:
>
> Thank you for the reply.
>
> I downloaded the file timimi-2-1-1-Mac , but the Mac keeps opening it on 
> TextEdit.
> How do I run it as intended?
> Is there a file extension missing?
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno mercoledì 4 novembre 2020 alle 00:06:49 UTC+1 Mark S. ha scritto:
>
>> It sounds like you don't have a complete timimi installation. The 
>> installation consists of two parts: the extension which you get from the 
>> firefox extensions, and local file installation which you download and 
>> install.
>>
>> Did you follow these instructions:
>>
>> https://ibnishak.github.io/Timimi/#Firefox
>>
>> (Scroll down to the Mac section)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-8, IvanPsy wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> I've installed the timimi extension on my Firefox.
>>>
>>> When I edit an old toddler or start a new one, when I finish the edit 
>>> and click the tick, the "Saved Wiki" poop up appears.
>>> In fact, no edit was saved: if I close the tab and go back to my 
>>> TiddlyWiki the edit isn't there.
>>>
>>> How do I activate the autosave feature on Firefox?
>>>
>>> I don't mind to have an online solution since I keep all local and sync 
>>> with iCloud (I'm on Mac).
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[David Gifford]

One thing that takes up space is the set of language tiddlers for 
translating to other languages. English-speakers don't need those, usually. 
What if those could be a plugin? Or else an English-only version stripped 
of those tiddlers? Feels arrogant and colonial even mentioning it. I only 
mention it as one area where TiddlyWiki could be at least a little lighter.

On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 1:00:21 AM UTC-6 Mohammad wrote:

> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
> recent releases. 
> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>
> Release   Size (kb)
> 5.1.12   1820
> 5.1.15   2025
> 5.1.17   2033
> 5.1.19   2153
> 5.1.21   2235
> 5.1.22   2197
> 5.1.12   2282
>
> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
> before going to have bigger empty.html
>
>
> Suggestions
> *A. Use official plugins*
> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
> everything extra)
> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>
> *B. Start a new generation *
> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>
> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
> filters)
> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
> 6. ...
>
> I am sure people can suggest more here
>
>
> Best wishes
> Mohammad
>
> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
> solutions in Tiddlywiki
> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
> tiddlers
> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki trashbin 
> tool
> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
> bookmarking tool
> TW-Todolist  organize, prioritize, 
> and plan your work
>
> https://github.com/kookma
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Exporting HTML file (Bob)

[jin]

Thank you Jed! I will surely wait for it. Till then, I will just use the 
wiki for myself :)

On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 at 20:54:22 UTC+8 inmy...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am not sure when I am going to be finished with it, I am hoping to have 
> something working this week but documentation an da reasonable UI are going 
> to take longer. I will announce it on here when it is ready for general 
> use, I will put what I have in a public git repo sometime today, but it 
> doesn't have much in the way of documentation.
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 1:29:21 PM UTC+1 justinehe...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> May I know when will it be released? or not? Anyways, thank you for 
>> letting me know. I will look forward to it, thank you so much :D
>>
>> On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 at 18:03:25 UTC+8 inmy...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't done much with the export since fixing the file server, so I 
>>> haven't updated the export yet. My plan is to have it copy all of the media 
>>> files into a files folder next to the output html file and update all of 
>>> the _canonical_uri tiddlers.
>>>
>>> I am currently updating the secure login server for hosting Bob online, 
>>> hopefully that will be ready soon, then you can have proper access controls 
>>> for an online wiki.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 3:24:07 AM UTC+1 
>>> justinehe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 If I exported the html file of my wiki where there are externally 
 referenced files, is there a way I can do for the files to show up other 
 than disabling the file server option? I want to send the html version of 
 my wiki to my friends so that they can take a look at my school notes 
 without the html file being large and hard to download and they can see 
 the 
 imported images and documents without it being a blank tiddler. I also 
 think that I'll be considering hosting my wiki online if that's possible. 

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Exporting HTML file (Bob)

[Jed Carty]

I am not sure when I am going to be finished with it, I am hoping to have 
something working this week but documentation an da reasonable UI are going 
to take longer. I will announce it on here when it is ready for general 
use, I will put what I have in a public git repo sometime today, but it 
doesn't have much in the way of documentation.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 1:29:21 PM UTC+1 justinehe...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> May I know when will it be released? or not? Anyways, thank you for 
> letting me know. I will look forward to it, thank you so much :D
>
> On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 at 18:03:25 UTC+8 inmy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I haven't done much with the export since fixing the file server, so I 
>> haven't updated the export yet. My plan is to have it copy all of the media 
>> files into a files folder next to the output html file and update all of 
>> the _canonical_uri tiddlers.
>>
>> I am currently updating the secure login server for hosting Bob online, 
>> hopefully that will be ready soon, then you can have proper access controls 
>> for an online wiki.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 3:24:07 AM UTC+1 justinehe...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If I exported the html file of my wiki where there are externally 
>>> referenced files, is there a way I can do for the files to show up other 
>>> than disabling the file server option? I want to send the html version of 
>>> my wiki to my friends so that they can take a look at my school notes 
>>> without the html file being large and hard to download and they can see the 
>>> imported images and documents without it being a blank tiddler. I also 
>>> think that I'll be considering hosting my wiki online if that's possible. 
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Exporting HTML file (Bob)

[jin]

May I know when will it be released? or not? Anyways, thank you for letting 
me know. I will look forward to it, thank you so much :D

On Wednesday, 4 November 2020 at 18:03:25 UTC+8 inmy...@gmail.com wrote:

> I haven't done much with the export since fixing the file server, so I 
> haven't updated the export yet. My plan is to have it copy all of the media 
> files into a files folder next to the output html file and update all of 
> the _canonical_uri tiddlers.
>
> I am currently updating the secure login server for hosting Bob online, 
> hopefully that will be ready soon, then you can have proper access controls 
> for an online wiki.
>
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 3:24:07 AM UTC+1 justinehe...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> If I exported the html file of my wiki where there are externally 
>> referenced files, is there a way I can do for the files to show up other 
>> than disabling the file server option? I want to send the html version of 
>> my wiki to my friends so that they can take a look at my school notes 
>> without the html file being large and hard to download and they can see the 
>> imported images and documents without it being a blank tiddler. I also 
>> think that I'll be considering hosting my wiki online if that's possible. 
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Tufte-like sidenotes: generate random ids

[Ste]

Tufte looks interesting!
 

On Tuesday, 3 November 2020 at 23:28:16 UTC Anjar wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> Some of you may be familiar with Edward Tufte (
> https://edwardtufte.github.io/tufte-css/), and I think his sidenote 
> approach can be useful in TiddlyWiki as well if one wants to add comments 
> to the contents of a tiddler. I tried to make a simple macro which work 
> fairly well, but to make a new number for each comment, I need to generate 
> a unique ID for it. Is this possible or do I need another approach? For 
> example, I added highlighting on hover which may reduce the need for unique 
> identifiers., but it would still be nice for say printing. 
>
> \define comment(txt)
>  class="margin-toggle sidenote-number">
> 
>  id="sn-demo"
> class="margin-toggle"/>$txt$
> \end
>
> 
> .comment:hover .sidenote {
> background-color: yellow;
> }
>
> input.margin-toggle {
> display: none;
> }
>
> label.sidenote-number {
> display: inline;
> }
>
> label.margin-toggle:not(.sidenote-number) {
> display: none;
> }
>
> .sidenote,
> .marginnote {
> float: right;
> clear: right;
> margin-right: -60%;
> width: 50%;
> margin-top: 0.3rem;
> margin-bottom: 0;
> font-size: 1.1rem;
> line-height: 1.3;
> vertical-align: baseline;
> position: relative;
> }
>
> .sidenote-number {
> counter-increment: sidenote-counter;
> }
>
> .sidenote-number:after,
> .sidenote:before {
> font-family: et-book-roman-old-style;
> position: relative;
> vertical-align: baseline;
> }
>
> .sidenote-number:after {
> content: counter(sidenote-counter);
> font-size: 1rem;
> top: -0.5rem;
> left: 0.1rem;
> }
>
> .sidenote:before {
> content: counter(sidenote-counter) " ";
> font-size: 1rem;
> top: -0.5rem;
> }
> 
>
> This<> is an<> example< "right?">>
>
>
> Best,
> Anders
>

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[tw5] Re: Autosave on Firefox: how to?

[IvanPsy]

Thank you for the reply.

I downloaded the file timimi-2-1-1-Mac , but the Mac keeps opening it on 
TextEdit.
How do I run it as intended?
Is there a file extension missing?




Il giorno mercoledì 4 novembre 2020 alle 00:06:49 UTC+1 Mark S. ha scritto:

> It sounds like you don't have a complete timimi installation. The 
> installation consists of two parts: the extension which you get from the 
> firefox extensions, and local file installation which you download and 
> install.
>
> Did you follow these instructions:
>
> https://ibnishak.github.io/Timimi/#Firefox
>
> (Scroll down to the Mac section)
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 1:36:54 PM UTC-8, IvanPsy wrote:
>>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I've installed the timimi extension on my Firefox.
>>
>> When I edit an old toddler or start a new one, when I finish the edit and 
>> click the tick, the "Saved Wiki" poop up appears.
>> In fact, no edit was saved: if I close the tab and go back to my 
>> TiddlyWiki the edit isn't there.
>>
>> How do I activate the autosave feature on Firefox?
>>
>> I don't mind to have an online solution since I keep all local and sync 
>> with iCloud (I'm on Mac).
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: HOWTO: Upload files/images to cloud storage automatically

[Donald Coates]

With both my nodejs and single file wikis I import images normally and then 
occasionally run a script that moves them to an external directory and 
creates a placemarker tiddler with a canonical uri:


#!/bin/bash

myyear=$(date +"%Y")
mymonth=$(date +"%m")

tiddlywiki --save [is[image]!tag[header-img]!moved[yes]] 
[addprefix[./images/$myyear/$mymonth/]] \ # moves image to directory based 
on year/month
   --setfield [is[image]!tag[header-img]!moved[yes]] _canonical_uri 
$:/blog/templates/canonical-uri-external-image text/plain

tiddlywiki --setfield [is[image]!moved[yes]] text 
$:/blog/templates/empty_text text/plain \
   --setfield [is[image]!moved[yes]] moved 
$:/blog/templates/moved_field text/plain

Setting a field to 'moved' is crucial because otherwise tiddlywiki will 
perform this operation on an emptied image and overwrite the original.

So locally you could move the files to a synced folder or on a server it 
might be a bit more complicated.

On Monday, November 2, 2020 at 9:52:41 PM UTC-5, Carlos R wrote:
>
>
> I am using nodejs version and I want a way to automatically upload files 
> to a cloud storage service such as dropbox. Has anyone attempted this? I 
> like to take screen shots with my notes and it's a bit cumbersome to have 
> to manually link files/images.
>
> Thanks!
>

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[tw5] Is there any way to export TiddlyWiki to a list of markdown files?

[Ilyusha Nicolas]

I have a html with many tiddlers, with tags and links. I want to find a way 
to export this html to a list of markdown files such that each tiddler 
corresponds to a markdown file, each link to X shows up as "[[X]]" in the 
output markdown file, similarly with tags?

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[tw5] Re: Exporting HTML file (Bob)

[Jed Carty]

I haven't done much with the export since fixing the file server, so I 
haven't updated the export yet. My plan is to have it copy all of the media 
files into a files folder next to the output html file and update all of 
the _canonical_uri tiddlers.

I am currently updating the secure login server for hosting Bob online, 
hopefully that will be ready soon, then you can have proper access controls 
for an online wiki.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 3:24:07 AM UTC+1 justinehe...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> If I exported the html file of my wiki where there are externally 
> referenced files, is there a way I can do for the files to show up other 
> than disabling the file server option? I want to send the html version of 
> my wiki to my friends so that they can take a look at my school notes 
> without the html file being large and hard to download and they can see the 
> imported images and documents without it being a blank tiddler. I also 
> think that I'll be considering hosting my wiki online if that's possible. 
>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[Mohammad]

Hi Charlie,

Thank you. Well having a stripped out core as a clean light empty.html 
gives more flexibility to developer to create custom editions with many 
customization and keep it still light for sending it through email.

Best wishes
Mohammad

On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 6:28:40 PM UTC+3:30 Charlie Veniot wrote:

> I'm an instant fan of your thoughts.
>
> Your post makes me think of Linux  (Tiny Core Linux 
>  and, even more so, the stripped-down version: 
> Micro Core Linux.)  It would be neat for TiddlyWiki to have a Debian-like 
> repository  and something akin to a 
> package manager.
>
> Yeah, I dream kind of grandiose...
>
> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 3:00:21 AM UTC-4 Mohammad wrote:
>
>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
>> recent releases. 
>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
>> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>>
>> Release   Size (kb)
>> 5.1.12   1820
>> 5.1.15   2025
>> 5.1.17   2033
>> 5.1.19   2153
>> 5.1.21   2235
>> 5.1.22   2197
>> 5.1.12   2282
>>
>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
>> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
>> before going to have bigger empty.html
>>
>>
>> Suggestions
>> *A. Use official plugins*
>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
>> everything extra)
>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>>
>> *B. Start a new generation *
>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>>
>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
>> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
>> filters)
>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
>> 6. ...
>>
>> I am sure people can suggest more here
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
>> solutions in Tiddlywiki
>> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
>> tiddlers
>> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
>> trashbin tool
>> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
>> bookmarking tool
>> TW-Todolist  organize, 
>> prioritize, and plan your work
>>
>> https://github.com/kookma
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[Mohammad]

Hi Ste,

 Many thanks for your kind words. 
I like to give a real example. Fortran is a very old language and still in 
progress in 2020 and its latest standard 202x was released ( first draft ) 
a few months ago ago.
Fortran is very popular in the scientific community when it comes to high 
performance computation and number crunching. Its 2020 compiler (support 
Fortran standard 2018) can compile and run the code back to 1970. There are 
many deprecated features, by default compiler uses the recent standards but 
there are compiler switches to tell compiler to compile a legacy code with 
many deprecated rules.

What I propose for Tiddlywiki is like Fortran. The core can support most of 
the legacy tiddlers in TW5 but the TW 5.2.xx by default works based on new 
clean and light core and does not support deprecated rules. So what people 
can do if they have legacy tiddlers, plugins, ... in new TW 5.2.xx?
Like Fortran which has compiler switches, TW 5.2.xx can have an official 
plugin e.g. backwardcompatibility plugin which can be installed on demand 
and support all TW 5.x.yy
So while TW 5.2.xx is kept light, clean and stripped out and push users to 
use the new core which support good scripting styles (we can say new TW 
standards) , it has options (plugin) to simply used and support all legacy 
things (tiddlers, plugins, themes,...)


So by default TW 5.2.xx is based on stripped out, clean, minimal core BUT 
users have option to install official backwardcompatibility plugin(s) to 
work with all old things.


Best wishes
Mohammad

TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
solutions in Tiddlywiki
TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
tiddlers
TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki trashbin 
tool
TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
bookmarking tool
TW-Todolist  organize, prioritize, 
and plan your work

https://github.com/kookma

On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 6:50:47 PM UTC+3:30 Ste wrote:

> Welcome back  Mohammad!
> Diving in with some heavyweight thoughts!
> Fit tiddlywiki on a floppy!...(I found some in an old lap top bag the 
> other daynone of my students knew what it was.)
> I've not been a party to the dev/ github discussions but as much as new 
> and shiny appeals, losing say, tidgraph...NO.  But then my existing 
> wiki isn't going anywhere I guess (at least now I have a backup from 
> tiddlyspot!).
> Or would it be a case of SOME things breaking, SOME things still working?  
> How radical an overhaul is it?
> Tiddlywiki classic, 5.1-classic and shiny...hmmm
>
> Ste
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, 3 November 2020 at 14:58:40 UTC Charlie Veniot wrote:
>
>> I'm an instant fan of your thoughts.
>>
>> Your post makes me think of Linux  (Tiny Core Linux 
>>  and, even more so, the stripped-down 
>> version: Micro Core Linux.)  It would be neat for TiddlyWiki to have a 
>> Debian-like 
>> repository  and something akin to a 
>> package manager.
>>
>> Yeah, I dream kind of grandiose...
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 3, 2020 at 3:00:21 AM UTC-4 Mohammad wrote:
>>
>>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
>>> recent releases. 
>>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One 
>>> question is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the 
>>> below table
>>>
>>> Release   Size (kb)
>>> 5.1.12   1820
>>> 5.1.15   2025
>>> 5.1.17   2033
>>> 5.1.19   2153
>>> 5.1.21   2235
>>> 5.1.22   2197
>>> 5.1.12   2282
>>>
>>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
>>> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
>>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
>>> before going to have bigger empty.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Suggestions
>>> *A. Use official plugins*
>>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
>>> everything extra)
>>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>>>
>>> *B. Start a new generation *
>>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
>>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
>>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>>>
>>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
>>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
>>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
>>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile 
>>> approach, like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi 
>>> input filters)
>>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
>>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
>>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
>>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
>>> 6. ...
>>>
>>

[tw5] Re: Tiddlywiki Empty: The size empty.html

[Mohammad]

Hi Tones,
 That is quite true and I see your efforts in this regard. I totally agree 
with you, having some *starter edition* with enough plugins, table of 
content, themes, palettes, ...
 The empty.html as described by Josiah (the virgin edition) should be 
available for experienced users and for creating other editions.

I myself distribute a customized edition to my graduate students which 
contains: empty.html + commander + shiraz + utility + favorites + 
trashbin + tinyTodo + relink + jighlight.js + katex + codemirror.
They are happy with that. We use tag very carefully and try to have one 
line at the end of tiddler body as (keywords: list of related keywords)
e use heavily from 
- sidebar table of content
- tiddler menu bar info (for references, fields, ...)
- tag pill to find other tiddlers in that category


Best wishes
Mohammad

TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
solutions in Tiddlywiki
TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
tiddlers
TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki trashbin 
tool
TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
bookmarking tool
TW-Todolist  organize, prioritize, 
and plan your work

https://github.com/kookma

On Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 12:56:12 AM UTC+3:30 TW Tones wrote:

> Mohammad et al,
>
> I am all for a minimum tiddlywiki being freely available and empty.html 
> has provided this, perhaps some of you suggestions can be moved into it. 
> However as I have stated a number of times empty.html is for people who 
> know what they are doing, building from a base. It is not a good starting 
> place for new users but it is the first download available to new users. 
>
> Especially in functionality was reduced for space in empty.html but 
> already I think we should have a "standard edition", with a little more 
> functionality for users to help them be productive sooner.
>
> It should be quite easy to document, even have a plugin that "reduces" an 
> empty or standard wiki to a minimalist one so perhaps that is what we 
> should use not another edition?
>
> Regards
> Tones
>
>
> On Tuesday, 3 November 2020 18:00:21 UTC+11, Mohammad wrote:
>>
>> Tiddlywiki is rapidly improving and you can see great features in the 
>> recent releases. 
>> From 2.1.17+ amazing features have been added to Tiddlywiki! One question 
>> is about the size of empty.html (the virgin Tiddlywiki). See the below table
>>
>> Release   Size (kb)
>> 5.1.12   1820
>> 5.1.15   2025
>> 5.1.17   2033
>> 5.1.19   2153
>> 5.1.21   2235
>> 5.1.22   2197
>> 5.1.12   2282
>>
>> While I love the new features, but, how big a virgin Tiddlywiki  can be? 
>> Assuming many users work with single file mode and using different 
>> Tiddlywiki for different purposes, I think we should set a maximum size, 
>> before going to have bigger empty.html
>>
>>
>> Suggestions
>> *A. Use official plugins*
>> 1. Keep the core as light as possible, go down to 1MB size (strip 
>> everything extra)
>> 2. Put extra features in official plugins
>>
>> *B. Start a new generation *
>> 1.Release TW 5.2 with minimum size core (include only essential part)
>> 2. Leave all backward compatibility to Tiddlywiki 5.1.xx
>> 3. Stop developing 5.1.xx and only release bug fixes
>>
>> If Jeremy can go for a new generation of Tiddlywiki, I may also suggest
>> 1. Sweep the core from all duplicated codes and those retained backward 
>> compatibility and leave them for 5.1.xx
>> 2. Rethink about filters and implement using the more versatile approach, 
>> like those are going on in GitHub (e.g. Saq proposal for multi input 
>> filters)
>> 3. Use flexible switchable page layout
>> 4. Think for a cleaner scripting (remove all duplication, improved 
>> grammar, ... there is a lot of good discussions in the forum and GitHub)
>> 5. Think of a new name (re-branding)
>> 6. ...
>>
>> I am sure people can suggest more here
>>
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Mohammad
>>
>> TW-Scripts  codes, macros, and 
>> solutions in Tiddlywiki
>> TW-Commander  bulk operations on 
>> tiddlers
>> TW-Trashbin  a Tiddlywiki 
>> trashbin tool
>> TW-Favorites  a favorites and 
>> bookmarking tool
>> TW-Todolist  organize, 
>> prioritize, and plan your work
>>
>> https://github.com/kookma
>>
>>

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