[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
And I think that TiddlyWiki should be defined in an empty TiddlyWiki +1 +2 IMO, missing tiddlers simply looks like it's some error which is confusing. Not an error, but a useful tool, I think. I imagine, the missing tiddler list on tiddlywiki.com may indeed need some review. One way would be to redirect now dead candidates to their new places. Another would be the ability to add a missing link to some S:/config/IgnoreMissing index which... 1. prevents the link from being wikified as a link 2. no longer lists the link in the missing tab One half measure idea would be a some text in faint gray in each missing tiddler informing that [there is no content in this tiddler]. (Not quite true if it's not a tiddler to begin with.) There's a bug in 5.1.5 that prevents the desired message from showing up. Another route might be to de-linkify them with ~ That's one way to do it, but some of them are possibly intended to be documented, yet not documented as of today. Perhaps some rudimentary doc-todo tag would be an indication as to what are truly missing tiddlers on tiddlywiki.com. Best wishes, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Hi Rich, I was trying to start a new TW with all the Missing files and I was going to start making them. Making them is not the solution for every case. Sometimes things got renamed and concepts redesigned. Some perhaps really don't need to be created, I think. They could just be put on some index to be hidden from the missing tids. Best wishes, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
I'm keen to get 5.1.6 out soon, so all this help is much appreciated, This isn't really related to the topic but it is something I thought was worth mentioning when you go back to work on 5.1.6... By my count there are 171 Missing tiddlers. Some, I suspect, were never intended to be tiddlers. I think the missing tiddler list should be minimal. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Stephen, How did you find those missing tiddlers under the missing tab? In the Emptly.HTML there are no missing tiddlers but 'TiddlyWiki' is linked too and does not exist. And I think that TiddlyWiki should be defined in an empty TiddlyWiki especially if we decide to change the name from, empty.html to TiddlyWiki.html or some variation of TW for the name. As I have said before I like the biggest name I can get and I know I am in the minority, this would be my choice for naming structure TiddlyWiki-5-1-6-empty.html. I agree that having missing tiddlers should be minimized / eliminated. Can we help with that Jeremy? If so how? Rich Shumaker On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 11:07:24 AM UTC-8, Stephen Kimmel wrote: I'm keen to get 5.1.6 out soon, so all this help is much appreciated, This isn't really related to the topic but it is something I thought was worth mentioning when you go back to work on 5.1.6... By my count there are 171 Missing tiddlers. Some, I suspect, were never intended to be tiddlers. I think the missing tiddler list should be minimal. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
How did you find those missing tiddlers under the missing tab? In the Emptly.HTML there are no missing tiddlers but 'TiddlyWiki' is linked too and does not exist. I'm sorry if I mistyped that. I was looking at the TW 5.1.6 Full Prelease html file. Clearly it is a work in progress but then TW 5.1.5 has nearly as missing tiddlers. I don't have the exact number for TW 5.1.5 but it is over 160 missing tiddlers. I agree that having missing tiddlers should be minimized / eliminated. Can we help with that Jeremy? If so how? How can we help, Jeremy? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
RichShumaker wrote: How did you find those missing tiddlers under the missing tab? In the Emptly.HTML there are no missing tiddlers but 'TiddlyWiki' is linked too and does not exist. Sure you'' find them: Sidebar tab More and then vertical tab Missing. And I think that TiddlyWiki should be defined in an empty TiddlyWiki especially if we decide to change the name from, empty.html to TiddlyWiki.html or some variation of TW for the name. What does that first line mean? As I have said before I like the biggest name I can get and I know I am in the minority, this would be my choice for naming structure TiddlyWiki-5-1-6-empty.html. Why not with periods instead of hyphens? I believe this works just fine, no? Maybe TiddlyWiki5.1.6_empty.html ? (Even if I'd rather have it named just TiddlyWiki5.1.6.html I've brought up the missing tiddlers issue before (even eagerly emailed several alerts to Jeremy *Oh, I found another one* before realizing that, yes, there is a missing list with 100+ names! LOL) IMO, the problem is that it simply looks like there's some error which is confusing. One half measure idea would be a default text informing that [there is no content in this tiddler]. However, this is not true because it's not a tiddler to begin with. Pure tags (i.e tags that are not a tiddler) could have a text informing that name is a tag and maybe even listing in which tiddlers. Could this be done without having be a tiddler? (...or maybe that wouldn't matter? Could have a field saying it's of type tag?) Another route might be to de-linkify them in empty. I.e to have a run through that puts a ~ in front of them. That way they're not seen in view mode but we could still easily find them when/if we want to. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
RichShumaker wrote: And I think that TiddlyWiki should be defined in an empty TiddlyWiki +1. IMO, missing tiddlers simply looks like it's some error which is confusing. I've brought up this subject before, but for tw.com - I even eagerly peppered Jeremy with alerts *Oh, look look, I found yet another missing one* before realizing that, yes, there is a missing tab listing 100+ names! Doh! One half measure idea would be a some text in faint gray in each missing tiddler informing that [there is no content in this tiddler]. (Not quite true if it's not a tiddler to begin with.) Another route might be to de-linkify them with ~ on tw.com. Not seen then in view mode but still easily findable if we want to. As I have said before I like the biggest name I can get and I know I am in the minority, this would be my choice for naming structure TiddlyWiki-5-1-6-empty.html. Why not with periods instead of hyphens: TiddlyWiki5.1.6_empty.html - I believe this works just fine, no? Even if I'd rather have it named just TiddlyWiki5.1.6.html. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
.(periods) on some systems are no goodsky they are the beginning of the type area so image.jpg document.pdf ect. ect. I like the _ instead of . so TW5_1_5_Emptly.html and I know I like really long file names. One Idea is to take all the missing tiddlers and creating them for Jeremy if he is okay with that. We could use the ~Exclude functionality except you will be surprised that there are many places that have that item. Jeremy ~TiddlyWiki on the main page then it was listed in several other places. I like shadow tiddlers and adding one more makes me sad it would be 1112 with a TiddlyWiki shadow tiddler except I think a basic explanation of TiddlyWiki is important. If this was BobsWiki then having a Tiddler called TiddlyWiki might not be a big deal BUT This is TiddlyWiki and a Tiddler with that name just makes sense to me even in an empty.html TiddlyWiki. Jumps off soapbox quickly. Rich Shumaker On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 2:00:48 PM UTC-8, Mat wrote: RichShumaker wrote: And I think that TiddlyWiki should be defined in an empty TiddlyWiki +1. IMO, missing tiddlers simply looks like it's some error which is confusing. I've brought up this subject before, but for tw.com - I even eagerly peppered Jeremy with alerts *Oh, look look, I found yet another missing one* before realizing that, yes, there is a missing tab listing 100+ names! Doh! One half measure idea would be a some text in faint gray in each missing tiddler informing that [there is no content in this tiddler]. (Not quite true if it's not a tiddler to begin with.) Another route might be to de-linkify them with ~ on tw.com. Not seen then in view mode but still easily findable if we want to. As I have said before I like the biggest name I can get and I know I am in the minority, this would be my choice for naming structure TiddlyWiki-5-1-6-empty.html. Why not with periods instead of hyphens: TiddlyWiki5.1.6_empty.html - I believe this works just fine, no? Even if I'd rather have it named just TiddlyWiki5.1.6.html. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Example Tiddler - TitleMe [[TitleMe|http://eucaly-tw5.tiddlyspot.com/#TitleMe]] I think I could get a bunch done fairly quickly and we could have all the missing ones cut to almost none. I am not a GitHub wiz and I have a feeling we need to make these changes via GitHub, I am up for learning and helping out here. Anyone else want to help? I was trying to start a new TW with all the Missing files and I was going to start making them. Unfortunately the system is smarter than I and I can't copy paste the list or drag and drop the list. So there is an interesting question how do you make a list of things that don't exist yet inside TW(Missing Tiddlers)? Ideally I could drag and drop the list and then start to reverse engineer the answers, for stuff like YouTube. Thanks everyone. Rich Shumaker On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 2:14:59 PM UTC-8, RichShumaker wrote: .(periods) on some systems are no goodsky they are the beginning of the type area so image.jpg document.pdf ect. ect. I like the _ instead of . so TW5_1_5_Emptly.html and I know I like really long file names. One Idea is to take all the missing tiddlers and creating them for Jeremy if he is okay with that. We could use the ~Exclude functionality except you will be surprised that there are many places that have that item. Jeremy ~TiddlyWiki on the main page then it was listed in several other places. I like shadow tiddlers and adding one more makes me sad it would be 1112 with a TiddlyWiki shadow tiddler except I think a basic explanation of TiddlyWiki is important. If this was BobsWiki then having a Tiddler called TiddlyWiki might not be a big deal BUT This is TiddlyWiki and a Tiddler with that name just makes sense to me even in an empty.html TiddlyWiki. Jumps off soapbox quickly. Rich Shumaker On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 2:00:48 PM UTC-8, Mat wrote: RichShumaker wrote: And I think that TiddlyWiki should be defined in an empty TiddlyWiki +1. IMO, missing tiddlers simply looks like it's some error which is confusing. I've brought up this subject before, but for tw.com - I even eagerly peppered Jeremy with alerts *Oh, look look, I found yet another missing one* before realizing that, yes, there is a missing tab listing 100+ names! Doh! One half measure idea would be a some text in faint gray in each missing tiddler informing that [there is no content in this tiddler]. (Not quite true if it's not a tiddler to begin with.) Another route might be to de-linkify them with ~ on tw.com. Not seen then in view mode but still easily findable if we want to. As I have said before I like the biggest name I can get and I know I am in the minority, this would be my choice for naming structure TiddlyWiki-5-1-6-empty.html. Why not with periods instead of hyphens: TiddlyWiki5.1.6_empty.html - I believe this works just fine, no? Even if I'd rather have it named just TiddlyWiki5.1.6.html. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
d'oh!!! my text editor spreadsheet workaround. http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/Missing.htm Working on formatting into Tiddlers next. Rich Shumaker On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 2:30:12 PM UTC-8, RichShumaker wrote: Example Tiddler - TitleMe [[TitleMe|http://eucaly-tw5.tiddlyspot.com/#TitleMe]] I think I could get a bunch done fairly quickly and we could have all the missing ones cut to almost none. I am not a GitHub wiz and I have a feeling we need to make these changes via GitHub, I am up for learning and helping out here. Anyone else want to help? I was trying to start a new TW with all the Missing files and I was going to start making them. Unfortunately the system is smarter than I and I can't copy paste the list or drag and drop the list. So there is an interesting question how do you make a list of things that don't exist yet inside TW(Missing Tiddlers)? Ideally I could drag and drop the list and then start to reverse engineer the answers, for stuff like YouTube. Thanks everyone. Rich Shumaker On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 2:14:59 PM UTC-8, RichShumaker wrote: .(periods) on some systems are no goodsky they are the beginning of the type area so image.jpg document.pdf ect. ect. I like the _ instead of . so TW5_1_5_Emptly.html and I know I like really long file names. One Idea is to take all the missing tiddlers and creating them for Jeremy if he is okay with that. We could use the ~Exclude functionality except you will be surprised that there are many places that have that item. Jeremy ~TiddlyWiki on the main page then it was listed in several other places. I like shadow tiddlers and adding one more makes me sad it would be 1112 with a TiddlyWiki shadow tiddler except I think a basic explanation of TiddlyWiki is important. If this was BobsWiki then having a Tiddler called TiddlyWiki might not be a big deal BUT This is TiddlyWiki and a Tiddler with that name just makes sense to me even in an empty.html TiddlyWiki. Jumps off soapbox quickly. Rich Shumaker On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 2:00:48 PM UTC-8, Mat wrote: RichShumaker wrote: And I think that TiddlyWiki should be defined in an empty TiddlyWiki +1. IMO, missing tiddlers simply looks like it's some error which is confusing. I've brought up this subject before, but for tw.com - I even eagerly peppered Jeremy with alerts *Oh, look look, I found yet another missing one* before realizing that, yes, there is a missing tab listing 100+ names! Doh! One half measure idea would be a some text in faint gray in each missing tiddler informing that [there is no content in this tiddler]. (Not quite true if it's not a tiddler to begin with.) Another route might be to de-linkify them with ~ on tw.com. Not seen then in view mode but still easily findable if we want to. As I have said before I like the biggest name I can get and I know I am in the minority, this would be my choice for naming structure TiddlyWiki-5-1-6-empty.html. Why not with periods instead of hyphens: TiddlyWiki5.1.6_empty.html - I believe this works just fine, no? Even if I'd rather have it named just TiddlyWiki5.1.6.html. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/Missing.htm I have started at the bottom and I am working my way up. Someone want to start at the top where I have no idea what to do, ;) #heheh Rich Shumaker -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
I think it's a better idea to first of all hear what Jeremy thinks. Second, I'm sure that procedure could be automated. Would reduce the risk for errors also. :-) On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 11:51:30 PM UTC+1, RichShumaker wrote: http://www.richshumaker.com/tw5/Missing.htm I have started at the bottom and I am working my way up. Someone want to start at the top where I have no idea what to do, ;) #heheh Rich Shumaker -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Boy Rich. You've really gone to town with this issue. One caveat before we go too far down this trail. Some of the missing tiddlers were clearly intended to be actual tiddlers someday. Some of them may be accidents. DaveGifford or DavidJade were probably never intended to actually be tiddlers. Something like [[MissingTiddler]] was clearly supposed to be a tiddler someday. As for the filenames, I'm with you. I prefer TW_516.html to TW.5.14.html for the simple reason that it is easier to read. Underscores are more automatically ignored than hyphens, periods and certainly CamelCase. In terms of readability, which may or may not be an actual word, mixed upper case and lower case words are among the hardest to read. That is why you see So FeW sEnTeNcEs WrItTeN lIKe ThIs. That's an extreme example but it is easy to see the problem. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Someone want to start at the top where I have no idea what to do, ;) #heheh I think it's a better idea to first of all hear what Jeremy thinks. Second, I'm sure that procedure could be automated. Would reduce the risk for errors also. Also the first missing tiddlers from the list are almost entirely if you name the tiddler '$:/something', then something happens, so those ones can either be ignored and the places where they are mentiones encapsulated in ```...``` or similiar. (That pretty much goes for all the $:/... tiddlers) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
I agree this is a bit premature. I have been learning a lot as I create these tiddlers. I won't be putting any details on ones that need to be created to have something work. Or putting a note to that extent. If what I did is not acceptable then there is no need to use it, if someone wants to come back later they could easily TAG it somehow. So you don't like what I did you can put a TAG - [Update Needed] or [Explanation Needed] or something like that. For me I am just trying to help out and this is one of the ways I know I can right now, still learning JavaScript and need to work on more videos and tutorials. Seriously YouTube people, #heheh. When I make TW I often get a lot of CamelCase issues and sometimes making a Tiddler is easier than ~ everything. YouTube is one that has come up a bunch for me. Rich Shumaker -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Hi Stephen On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 5:43 PM, 'Stephen Kimmel' via TiddlyWiki tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com wrote: I think it's important to remember who are target audience is with the Empty file's GettingStarted tiddler. The audience for this tiddler is the new or inexperienced user. The experienced user doesn't need it and probably replaces it without even reading it. With that in mind, I have a few critiques and suggestions for the GettingStarted tiddler. 1. All reference to the Control Panel has been removed. By comparison, the GettingStarted tiddler for the classic version contained essentially nothing but references to what are now control panel functions. For those who have forgotten, the GettingStarted tiddler for the classic version contained just five lines which were: To get started with this blank TiddlyWiki, you'll need to modify the following tiddlers: - SiteTitle SiteSubtitle: The title and subtitle of the site, as shown above (after saving, they will also appear in the browser title bar) - MainMenu: The menu (usually on the left) - DefaultTiddlers: Contains the names of the tiddlers that you want to appear when the TiddlyWiki is opened You'll also need to enter your username for signing your edits: It might be worth considering whether our new users would be better off if the GettingStarted tiddler contained something like that. It's a tricky one. TiddlyWiki Classic links directly to the config tiddlers like SiteTitle. It doesn't do that for the username because it is not stored as a tiddler. In TW5 we have the control panel as the central place for configuring TiddlyWiki. GettingStarted could link directly to the underlying tiddlers, but it would bypass the control panel, losing an opportunity to teach the user where these configuration options live. So, we could: * Link directly to specific tabs in the control panel (we wouldn't be able to highlight particular controls) * Embed the edit controls necessary for these settings, duplicating the associated control panel functionality I'm not sure the best way to go. I do think there's a big benefit in helping the user to customise the wiki up front, because I suspect that the user is more invested in the wiki if they've customised it. But maybe the way to do that is via a getting started *wizard*, a separate html file (like upgrade.html) that steps users through the process of selecting options for setting up a new wiki. 2. Step number three, Click the red in the sidebar on the right is unnecessary and confusing. The New User is going to be working with the Empty.html as downloaded. That file is preconfigured to Autosave whenever the user clicks on the tick mark button that accepts the changes to the tiddler. The only time the New User will need to hit the button described in step 3 is when they make a change to control panel settings. This statement should be included in the GettingStarted after the statements that reference the Control Panel. The trouble here is that it depends on the browser - the behaviour described is what Chrome users will see, for example. As discussed above, we could make GettingStarted be browser specific, but that implies bringing in quite a lot of browser detection code that is currently in a plugin for tiddlywiki.com. By my reckoning, no one who can figure out how to change the Autosave setting qualifies as a brand new user. 3. For the New User, the most important aspect of the Getting Started process and the first thing I would mention is how to make sure you can actually save the tiddlers you create. There aren't many things as frustrating as spending time working on something only to have it vanish into the ether. Accordingly, I would have the first thing they see be something about checking the setup. Check, that was the goal of the current text, which is 80% about saving changes. 4. Do we expect there to be any members of the target audience using TiddlyDesktop? My guess is no. And the line basically says that if you are using TiddlyDesktop, you don't have to worry about what this tiddler says. I would delete it unless the goal is to promote TiddlyDesktop. The reference to TiddlyDesktop is really a symptom of the fundamental problem with this draft: phrasing instructions that are useful on all the different platforms that the user may have chosen to use TiddlyWiki. 5. I would include the lines about the TiddlyFox addin including the links here rather than forcing the New User to go back to the main site to read it. We could link direct to TiddlyFox. And while I'm making suggestions, I wouldn't force the new user to leave the tiddler to go get information about installing addins so they can make TiddlyWiki work. If you don't want to include all that and the plugin in the basic empty set, you can always have the user tell the program what browser they are using and have the program load the appropriate file
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
I think it's important to remember who are target audience is with the Empty file's GettingStarted tiddler. The audience for this tiddler is the new or inexperienced user. The experienced user doesn't need it and probably replaces it without even reading it. With that in mind, I have a few critiques and suggestions for the GettingStarted tiddler. 1. All reference to the Control Panel has been removed. By comparison, the GettingStarted tiddler for the classic version contained essentially nothing but references to what are now control panel functions. For those who have forgotten, the GettingStarted tiddler for the classic version contained just five lines which were: To get started with this blank TiddlyWiki, you'll need to modify the following tiddlers: - SiteTitle SiteSubtitle: The title and subtitle of the site, as shown above (after saving, they will also appear in the browser title bar) - MainMenu: The menu (usually on the left) - DefaultTiddlers: Contains the names of the tiddlers that you want to appear when the TiddlyWiki is opened You'll also need to enter your username for signing your edits: It might be worth considering whether our new users would be better off if the GettingStarted tiddler contained something like that. 2. Step number three, Click the red in the sidebar on the right is unnecessary and confusing. The New User is going to be working with the Empty.html as downloaded. That file is preconfigured to Autosave whenever the user clicks on the tick mark button that accepts the changes to the tiddler. The only time the New User will need to hit the button described in step 3 is when they make a change to control panel settings. This statement should be included in the GettingStarted after the statements that reference the Control Panel. By my reckoning, no one who can figure out how to change the Autosave setting qualifies as a brand new user. 3. For the New User, the most important aspect of the Getting Started process and the first thing I would mention is how to make sure you can actually save the tiddlers you create. There aren't many things as frustrating as spending time working on something only to have it vanish into the ether. Accordingly, I would have the first thing they see be something about checking the setup. 4. Do we expect there to be any members of the target audience using TiddlyDesktop? My guess is no. And the line basically says that if you are using TiddlyDesktop, you don't have to worry about what this tiddler says. I would delete it unless the goal is to promote TiddlyDesktop. 5. I would include the lines about the TiddlyFox addin including the links here rather than forcing the New User to go back to the main site to read it. And while I'm making suggestions, I wouldn't force the new user to leave the tiddler to go get information about installing addins so they can make TiddlyWiki work. If you don't want to include all that and the plugin in the basic empty set, you can always have the user tell the program what browser they are using and have the program load the appropriate file with an html iframe statement. It might be something like iframe width=100% height=650 style=border:none; src=http://tiddlywiki.com/firefoxstart.html; scrolling=yes/iframe. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
I've simplified empty.html's GettingStarted to remove the tabs. I think, at least for the moment, that we should keep it simple, and link to help material elsewhere. I've uploaded a new prerelease to: http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/empty.html Best wishes Jeremy On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Mat matiasg...@gmail.com wrote: Stephen Kimmel wrote: prof. Kimmel? prof Kimmel?!? hmm. prof Kimmel. I like it. Hehe - my chrystal ball had unusually good reception so I could clearly read professor on that lab coat name tab, in spite of all your waving with those Skinneresque electrodes over their heads, over there at the TiddlyInstitite. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Jeremy Ruston mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Hi Jeremy, I've simplified empty.html's GettingStarted to remove the tabs. I think, at least for the moment, that we should keep it simple, and link to help material elsewhere. I think that's a good approach. Tabs add complexity and would only help in this context if numbered. There could be a few more headlines, e.g. *Create* (tiddlers) *Save* (tiddlywiki) *Explore* (tags, macros, templates, etc.) ...each with either the ui features to use, e.g. buttons, indicating what to do ...or definitions lists with summaries and links pointing towards the corresponding topics on tiddlywiki.com... similar to http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/#Core. I see if I can't give it a try at what that could look like. anyhow, I think this is a very important topic to keep newcomers confident ...and motivated to explore! Perhaps, this is a good opportunity to introduce the most simplistic (implementation of a) widget rendering a headings toc with clickable links... so as to have that toc at the top of a tiddler while being able to jump to a topic further down the tiddler. Best wishes, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
simplified So, yes, I think this is the baseline for GettingStarted in empty.html: KISS. *K*eep *I*t *S*mart / *S*mall / *S*tupid... but, above all, *S*imple. Best wishes, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 5:28:43 PM UTC-6, Mat wrote: Apropos the current lab rat experiments https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/rDRWHh9r6TA/v9IC6pNa7U0J prof. Kimmel is doing ;-) .. and apropos the absolutely incredible boost we have in these matters since Jeremys moratoruim, here's a suggestion for the very first tiddler that someone meets when opening an empty tw. The hope is to pull them in more and really have them try out stuff so that they don't give up prematurely before seeing the light. *Immediate* help is a key factor IMO so this introduces a new concept targeting this 100%. Please consider the genericness of my proposal for how to provide help there. It is adaptable to whatever best solution we have at that moment, and for that particular issue, instead of e.g static documents. It also makes it possible to give multiple solutions to a problem (assuming we have those multiple solutions). Ok, please click on both the images to see the details and explanations (I hope the images open full size or I'll provide another way in next post). prof. Kimmel? prof Kimmel?!? hmm. prof Kimmel. I like it. I like where both Mat's and Jeremy's GettingStarted pages are going. I think the obviously available help with the readily recognized icon would be especially useful. Whether we do this in the main Empty or in a Empty with Help edition, is almost irrelevant. The inexperienced users need something more than the blank sheet of paper the current Empty contains. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Jeremy wrote: I admire your ability to turn around mockups, they work really well and communicate very clearly. It means a lot for me to hear this from you, Jeremy. Thank you! I've actually also thought about having a help mode, I think it could work well, but obviously not something I want to do during the moratorium. Moratorium in deed, a very justified decision! And your suggestion for what to focus on meanwhile is causing an incredible thunder in the discussions; while I'm not sure we're seeing *actual* documentation being produced, your suggestion has very much shifted *attention* to be about what we can do to guide newcomers and documentation in general. Fantastic! This Help mode idea is more about documentation infrastructure (and not for moratorium time), but it is *two sided*; Obviously it should help newcomers to access help- but it's really also about actually producing documentation, even if indirectly: The plentitude of help from the mini-links, interspersed at locations in TW where we see need and linking to whichever documentation best dealing with that issue (and regardless if text, video,..) should *encourage* community individuals to produce *actual* documentation because it would give recognition to their individual efforts. I'd think the majority of community members have never had anything publically recognized and would feel proud if their effort was put up publically. Of course, there's still a good enough threshold to pass - but opening up for any format for any help allows the, say, video guy to help where he woudn't if it was limited to e.g text. The great need for help we're beginning to recognize and which is obvious from the sheer number of questions on the boards, means we can't afford to be too picky - at this stage (...IMO). The documents etc would refine gradually, and like in e.g Wikipedia, there could be notes saying this article needs ___ . While Wikipedia leaves a lot to be desired, its undisputed world wide success and it's status as the #1 information reference obviously relies on a community doing what individuals never could. Gradual refinement. Besides, the forms in which people produce documentation (choice of format but also e.g style) also reflects the forms for what is needed. An adult academic expresses him or herself very differently from a gaming teenager - but we want TW to appeal to both. Documentation is merely the means not the goal. (Being helped is the goal ;-) An extension for this mini help links is to have it configurable according to need. A beginner gets the default links as illustrated above. An intermediate user goes into ctrl panes, switches to intermediate help mode, which hides some mini help links and displays some others which point to help at that level. Or, CSS help mode to have that help topic accessible. A theme developer adds a theme help providing special for that theme. Help is not always needed - but *access* to help is. (And, in my proposal, this *access* is enabled with that single green button.) Almost ironic: So elegant and simple in one sense, but just like paper and pen, yet it takes everyone several years before one can master it possibly even schooling. So simple, so complex. I'm keen to get some reworking of GettingStarted for 5.1.6 (which is now a few days overdue) so I've incorporated some of your ideas in an update here: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/2698f088517c186705c390362dd516f2709d7141 I'd appreciate comments and suggestions. Will get back on this. The approach to giving different instructions for different browsers is clumsy. On tiddlywiki.com/index.html we use the browser-sniff plugin that lets us conditionally show material based on the current browser. To use that in GettingStarted we'd need to move that plugin into the core. I obviously have no idea what the cost in terms of file size, etc would be - but maybe for a getting started edition it's justified? Of, if staying with different instructions, maybe the impression could be softened a bit by using icons for each browser (riding on familiarity/identification factor). Click icon opens slider showing the relevant instrux. (Detail; these icons should ideally be listed next to eachothers, not below, because they are not a sequence but instead a, um, road fork.) I do wonder whether these blow-by-blow instructions are appropriate in empty.html. The alternative would be to have a getting started edition (perhaps the same as the introduction edition) that is specially geared to taking the user step-by-step through the installation and saving process. Once the user has achieved that tutorial then maybe they'd be best served with an empty.html that was relatively brief, mostly being links to material elsewhere. IMO, there should be one minimial core version and one guided edition designed to prevent every beginner misstep we've
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Stephen Kimmel wrote: prof. Kimmel? prof Kimmel?!? hmm. prof Kimmel. I like it. Hehe - my chrystal ball had unusually good reception so I could clearly read professor on that lab coat name tab, in spite of all your waving with those Skinneresque electrodes over their heads, over there at the TiddlyInstitite. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Yes, the tab would be immediately doable (as displayed here http://mockup-sidebar-search.tiddlyspot.com/#GettingStarted, by Tobias apropos another discussion https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1066#issuecomment-65936620). But I think that most of these things (and what I'm about to show below) we already have almost all the pieces for. But then, I'm no programmer ;-) What, as you put it, sort of help is IMO not really an issue - I mean, you can ask that same question about the help we are currently providing. The answer is probably; the best kind of help we've managed to scrape together for the moment. Anything is better than nothing. Anyway, over night the ol' brain decided to bring forth yet a touch; to use the sidebar Help tab itself as the area for this help presentation! Here are some furtherifications: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JzvH0eJ_7cE/VIhJv2-qcQI/O_0/mFe5u-uE_WE/s1600/empty_welcome_help_clicklink_help1.png https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SIBF_SWYeiA/VIhJU2q4TcI/O_s/lJf4_cSyIzM/s1600/empty_welcome_help_clicklink_help2.png https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Exm3O3K0vUU/VIhJLT3rvNI/O_k/cM2UWBdbJT0/s1600/empty_welcome_help_clicklink_help3.png -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Hi Mat I admire your ability to turn around mockups, they work really well and communicate very clearly. I've actually also thought about having a help mode, I think it could work well, but obviously not something I want to do during the moratorium. I'm keen to get some reworking of GettingStarted for 5.1.6 (which is now a few days overdue) so I've incorporated some of your ideas in an update here: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/2698f088517c186705c390362dd516f2709d7141 I'd appreciate comments and suggestions. The approach to giving different instructions for different browsers is clumsy. On tiddlywiki.com/index.html we use the browser-sniff plugin that lets us conditionally show material based on the current browser. To use that in GettingStarted we'd need to move that plugin into the core. I do wonder whether these blow-by-blow instructions are appropriate in empty.html. The alternative would be to have a getting started edition (perhaps the same as the introduction edition) that is specially geared to taking the user step-by-step through the installation and saving process. Once the user has achieved that tutorial then maybe they'd be best served with an empty.html that was relatively brief, mostly being links to material elsewhere. Note that one feature that is implemented is that the Saving tab of GettingStarted is swapped out for different material when using the client-server edition. I've also updated the prerelease: http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/empty.html I haven't embedded the video because there are some privacy issues - as things stand, Google/YouTube would get pinged each time empty.html was opened (including when opened locally from a file: URI). We need a new video macro that displays a local static thumbnail until it is clicked. Best wishes Jeremy. On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Mat matiasg...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, the tab would be immediately doable (as displayed here http://mockup-sidebar-search.tiddlyspot.com/#GettingStarted, by Tobias apropos another discussion https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1066#issuecomment-65936620). But I think that most of these things (and what I'm about to show below) we already have almost all the pieces for. But then, I'm no programmer ;-) What, as you put it, sort of help is IMO not really an issue - I mean, you can ask that same question about the help we are currently providing. The answer is probably; the best kind of help we've managed to scrape together for the moment. Anything is better than nothing. Anyway, over night the ol' brain decided to bring forth yet a touch; to use the sidebar Help tab itself as the area for this help presentation! Here are some furtherifications: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JzvH0eJ_7cE/VIhJv2-qcQI/O_0/mFe5u-uE_WE/s1600/empty_welcome_help_clicklink_help1.png https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SIBF_SWYeiA/VIhJU2q4TcI/O_s/lJf4_cSyIzM/s1600/empty_welcome_help_clicklink_help2.png https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Exm3O3K0vUU/VIhJLT3rvNI/O_k/cM2UWBdbJT0/s1600/empty_welcome_help_clicklink_help3.png -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Jeremy Ruston mailto:jeremy.rus...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Hi Jeremy, I do wonder whether these blow-by-blow instructions are appropriate in empty.html. The alternative would be to have a getting started edition (perhaps the same as the introduction edition) that is specially geared to taking the user step-by-step through the installation and saving process. Once the user has achieved that tutorial then maybe they'd be best served with an empty.html that was relatively brief, mostly being links to material elsewhere. Perhaps *GettingStarted* on *TiddlyWiki.com* (!) should really be a very short questionaire that guides the user to an awareness of what they want to or are able to do with this thing, e.g.: Do you plan on using TW online or local? Then suggest the appropriate actions. What is your expertise? Beginner, Advanced, Pro... link to some appropriate context, e.g. simple tutorials markup, then templates, macros, widgets and finally plugins, developer stuff, making an app. Would you be interested in this or this or this usecase? ...then links to some reference material. Eventually, the visitor has a clear vision of what he is looking for / wants to start out with ...and some straight answers as to what he can expect and how to get things going. http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/empty.html I think that definitely goes in the right direction. Best wishes, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
Hello all, @Mat...great stuff!...I find that TutWiki (tutorial wiki) mock layout pretty nifty. I like how the Quickstart tiddler lights up the relevant info in the help tab on the sidebar. Definitely will grab my attention as a regular user. Just my two cents worth. Best regards to all, Julio On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 6:28:43 PM UTC-5, Mat wrote: Apropos the current lab rat experiments https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/rDRWHh9r6TA/v9IC6pNa7U0J prof. Kimmel is doing ;-) .. and apropos the absolutely incredible boost we have in these matters since Jeremys moratoruim, here's a suggestion for the very first tiddler that someone meets when opening an empty tw. The hope is to pull them in more and really have them try out stuff so that they don't give up prematurely before seeing the light. *Immediate* help is a key factor IMO so this introduces a new concept targeting this 100%. Please consider the genericness of my proposal for how to provide help there. It is adaptable to whatever best solution we have at that moment, and for that particular issue, instead of e.g static documents. It also makes it possible to give multiple solutions to a problem (assuming we have those multiple solutions). Ok, please click on both the images to see the details and explanations (I hope the images open full size or I'll provide another way in next post). https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a4dfN3KUrWA/VIeAFSw65gI/O_U/qdHbpJZQHTc/s1600/empty_welcome_help_explanation.png https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9R-heO3bKoU/VId_1cv5f7I/O_M/Ql6pkdp4KEc/s1600/empty_welcome_help_2.png :-) https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9R-heO3bKoU/VId_1cv5f7I/O_M/Ql6pkdp4KEc/s1600/empty_welcome_help_2.png -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] GettingStarted tiddler + flexible help system
I like the idea, I am not sure how hard implementing a help mode would be, but the tab on the sidebar would be straightforward enough. The question would be what sort of help should be provided there or how it is presented. Do we have any people with a graphic design or technical writing background in this group? If so we should probably try to bribe them to for input on effective layout and the like. I have learned I am very bad at both layout and giving feedback on it, so I will just say I like the idea. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
