Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
The plan remy and I had was to make all of it available, source, binaries, sample data and so on. Let me run that by the editors and see if it's cool for me to release the test webapp early. the webapp itself is simple, but the tools I wrote to generate the test plans, test data and so on are useful. when appropriate, we've tried to include as much of the why. for example, to illustrate the impact of normalized/complex data model, I ran benchmarks with different dataset sizes to show how it impacts performance. I also tried to go into why one would use a flat data model vs a normalized one. Most of it leads back to functional requirements and educating management about how features impact design, which have real and measurable impact on performance. peter lin Will Hartung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> From: "Peter Lin" > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:17 AM > Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns > 9. tool for generating jmeter test plan from tomcat access logs What a great idea, that never occured to me (I haven't looked at the access log valve much, can it include POST information? > I have tried to provide as much as I can and hopefully > when it's all done, people will find it useful. I'll > let remy speak for himself :) That list looks really good and hits a lot of issues that most folks are doing. My only hope is that you're putting a lot of WHY into your text, not just HOW. Regards, Will Hartung ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
> From: "Peter Lin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 6:17 AM > Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns > 9. tool for generating jmeter test plan from tomcat access logs What a great idea, that never occured to me (I haven't looked at the access log valve much, can it include POST information? > I have tried to provide as much as I can and hopefully > when it's all done, people will find it useful. I'll > let remy speak for himself :) That list looks really good and hits a lot of issues that most folks are doing. My only hope is that you're putting a lot of WHY into your text, not just HOW. Regards, Will Hartung ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
There's a link to it on the tomcat resources page. http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/resources.html Here's a general list of what the book will contain. 1. setting performance requirements 2. building test plans 3. vm tuning options with benchmark results 4. performance consideration for data model, data access 5. linux and solaris 6. sun and ibm vm 7. sample webapp (addressbook and recipe site) 8. jdbc benchmarks for oracle 9. tool for generating jmeter test plan from tomcat access logs 10. tool for generating random data for the adddressbook for benchmarking purposes 11. concrete examples of how to handle streams, strings and so on. 12. SAX vs DOM performance (since the webapp uses XML so readers don't have to install a database) 13. tips and tricks for tuning performance 14. SSL performance 15. XML hardware acceleration I have tried to provide as much as I can and hopefully when it's all done, people will find it useful. I'll let remy speak for himself :) peter lin --- Bill Barker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Peter, > > > > I also look forward to the book and have the same > questions that Sean has. > > Also, > > 1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)? > Currently, clustering should be supported in TC 5.x. > > > 2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM > to use (i.e. IBM, > > JRocket)? > > 3. Performance monitoring using JMX? > TC 5.x currently has these out the ying-yang ;-). > Some of them have even > been migrated to the 4.1 branch (cvs HEAD, not > current release). > > > 4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the > OS should have for > Tomcat > Well, on Solaris you will crash and die if you don't > include the > "recommendend patches". Can't say much about other > O/Ss. > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
"Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Peter, > > I also look forward to the book and have the same questions that Sean has. > Also, > 1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)? Currently, clustering should be supported in TC 5.x. > 2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM to use (i.e. IBM, > JRocket)? > 3. Performance monitoring using JMX? TC 5.x currently has these out the ying-yang ;-). Some of them have even been migrated to the 4.1 branch (cvs HEAD, not current release). > 4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the OS should have for Tomcat Well, on Solaris you will crash and die if you don't include the "recommendend patches". Can't say much about other O/Ss. > > Many Thanks, > Tony > > -Original Message- > From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:40 PM > To: Tomcat Users List > Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns > > > I look forward to getting a copy of your book. > > What will be the book's title? Who will be your publishing company? What > is the scheduled release date? > > At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote: > > >Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an > >example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in > >performance. > > > >peter lin > > > >- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sean Dockery > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Certified Java Web Component Developer > Certified Delphi Programmer > SBD Consultants > http://www.sbdconsultants.com > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
"Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi All, > > I am looking at Tomcat for production and seeing some things that make me > question its use for production. I believe what Jakarta group is doing is a > great thing for all of us looking for cheaper alternatives but there is may > be a serious issue to using Tomcat. I have seen and now read concern about > Tomcat's performance. I found an interesting tidbit in a newsgroup about > Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks were > done in 2001 and are out of date but even today I still hear of concerns > regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a "reference > implementation only". The links are as follows: > > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=performance+vs+tomcat+weblogic+websphere&h > l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=HOEFIONAHHKFEFENBMNOAEPPCBAA.rsanford%40nol > imitsystems.com&rnum=4 > > http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html > If you actually read this page, then you will see that they tested against TC 3.1. I don't even think that this was the most current release in 2001. TC 4.1 and even 3.3 run circles around 3.1 in terms of performance. This data is hopelessly out of date (and like John implied, probably was when it was first published). I don't seem to have it here, but at one point I had a link showing that Tomcat was very competitive with commercial servers. I'll look to see if I can find it tomorrow. Of course, as someone else pointed out, the only benchmark that counts is yours ;-). > > > If anyone knows of some more up to date information regarding this issue > please let me know. I would really appreciate the feedback! > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
Here's the post by Remy where he posted a sample chapter and pointed to a URL to pre-order http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=tomcat-user&m=104254235126023&w=2 Jake At 04:00 PM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote: Peter, I also look forward to the book and have the same questions that Sean has. Also, 1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)? 2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM to use (i.e. IBM, JRocket)? 3. Performance monitoring using JMX? 4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the OS should have for Tomcat Many Thanks, Tony -Original Message- From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:40 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns I look forward to getting a copy of your book. What will be the book's title? Who will be your publishing company? What is the scheduled release date? At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote: >Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an >example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in >performance. > >peter lin > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sean Dockery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Certified Java Web Component Developer Certified Delphi Programmer SBD Consultants http://www.sbdconsultants.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
I believe it's Wrox, due out this spring. Wrox also has a new entry in it's handbook series coming out this month that is devoted to Tomcat security, both with Tomcat itself and applications that use Tomcat. John -Original Message- From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:40 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns I look forward to getting a copy of your book. What will be the book's title? Who will be your publishing company? What is the scheduled release date? At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote: >Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an >example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in performance. > >peter lin > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sean Dockery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Certified Java Web Component Developer Certified Delphi Programmer SBD Consultants http://www.sbdconsultants.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/2003 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
Peter, I also look forward to the book and have the same questions that Sean has. Also, 1. Will it cover Apache (i.e. clustering)? 2. JVM Tuning requirements for Tomcat or best JVM to use (i.e. IBM, JRocket)? 3. Performance monitoring using JMX? 4. Any recommended optimizations/patches that the OS should have for Tomcat Many Thanks, Tony -Original Message- From: Sean Dockery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:40 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns I look forward to getting a copy of your book. What will be the book's title? Who will be your publishing company? What is the scheduled release date? At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote: >Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an >example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in >performance. > >peter lin > >- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sean Dockery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Certified Java Web Component Developer Certified Delphi Programmer SBD Consultants http://www.sbdconsultants.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
I look forward to getting a copy of your book. What will be the book's title? Who will be your publishing company? What is the scheduled release date? At 11:10 2003-02-06 -0800, you wrote: Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in performance. peter lin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sean Dockery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Certified Java Web Component Developer Certified Delphi Programmer SBD Consultants http://www.sbdconsultants.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
Yet another performance page: http://webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletReport/index.html Chanan Braunstein knovel Corp. Web Development Manager 607-648-4770 x672 http://www.knovel.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
I'll just add one more tidbit into the conversation. The biggest bottleneck in most dynamic sites is the data access layer. In the benchmarks I ran recently, getting 16-20K of data from oracle will take a minimum of 200ms. when you compare this to the time tomcat spends doing other work, it becomes obvious that more than 50% of the CPU time is getting data. The only situation where page markup is slow is using XML with complex schema. Most of this stuff is covered in the book with an example webapp and benchmarks to show the trade off in performance. peter lin --- Will Hartung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: "Turner, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:01 AM > > Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns > > > > 1. Orion is a "competitor" to Tomcat making > benchmarks from them > > automatically suspect (at the very least > biased)...that URL is 2 years > > old...massive changes have been made to Tomcat > since > > I'm with John on this one. Not to slight Orion, but > everyone knows > benchmarks are meaningless, unless they're YOUR > benchmarks. > > But think very hard about your statement here. Think > about what the issue > is. > > Here you have an application that you are thinking > of or have already > written. You write it to the best within your > abilities and you FOLLOW THE > PLATFORM SPEC. > > Now, it comes down to deployment, tweaking, and > performance. > > So, you take your application and you benchmark it > using whatever tools you > are willing write/buy/download. > > If your application provides you with acceptable > performance, you're done. > > But here's the real treat. If it's NOT, then drop it > on any of several > containers (Orion, Resin, Tomcat, Jetty, Sun ONE, > JRun, Weblogic, Oracle, > IBM...and I'm missing some). > > Now benchmark it again...is it better? Is it worse? > > Do that a couple of times and stand back and bask in > the glow when it > hits...had you developed your application in > ANYTHING else, this would not > be an option. If you wrote your app using any other > technology, PHP, Perl, > ASP, .NET, WebObjects, Zope, etc. then when your > application was finished > and you wanted to deploy it only to discover you > were unhappy, you find you > had no recourse. > > With any other methodology you would need to look > for more hardware or > clustering or rewriting. All of those can be > expensive and complicated (and > I'm not saying the having to buy licenses for some > of these other containers > will not be expensive, as they can be). > > This is the real power of what Tomcat has to offer. > If it doesn't meet your > production needs, then something else might, and you > have the flexibility to > choose that option. You can say "Tomcat sucks, > forget it, I'm leaving" and > move on. > > The portability of WebApps is getting better with > every release of the > specification and the containers. This is why if you > follow my posts here, I > almost always bring up portability because I think > that it's extermely > important and fundamental to the platform, it's why > I like that Tomcat is > the reference implementation so that I can be better > assured that were > striving to compliance with the spec. > > Now, of course, the spec is vague enough and has > gray areas that can make > porting difficult, and I wish Tomcat were a bit more > strict on things, but > portability is real, it's possible, and it can be > less painful than you > think. And I think we all should send a big Thank > You to the Tomcat team, > Sun and the spec writers for pushing this effort > forward, and tell the > platform providers that portability is a real > concern to us as developers. > > Regards, > > Will Hartung > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
Tell your peers to vent some of that gas if they are basing their "rumblings" on data that's 2 years old. :) John > -Original Message- > From: Anecito, Anthony (HQP) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:27 PM > To: 'Shapira, Yoav'; Tomcat Users List > Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns > > > Hi Shapira, > > Many thanks for the reply. I agree with your list below but > am looking for > some simple benchmarks to start with. Also, a previous > response to this > posting by John Turner indicated a tuning book that may > resolve some of the > concerns by my peers about performance and I look forward to > reading the > book and trying some of its suggestions myself. > > Again, I am not trying cause a "Holy War" but just looking > for some help. I > really do believe in what is being done by Jakarta group but > want to quell > some rumblings by my peers. > > Many Thanks, > Tony > > -Original Message- > From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:09 AM > To: Tomcat Users List > Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns > > > Howdy, > > >Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks > were > >done in 2001 and are out of date > > Very out of date. Referring to a previous (3.x) generation of Tomcat, > which is much slower than the current (4.1.x) implementation. > > I haven't used Orion, but looking at their front page > (http://www.orionserver.com/) I see a couple of things > relevant to this > discussion: > > - Current release of Orion is a full J2EE server. Tomcat isn't and > doesn't try to be. > - Current release of Orion supports the Servlet 2.2 (and the "Public > Draft") of Servlet 2.3 standards. That is too funny to even > comment on. > - Current release of Orion is $1500 per physical server for commercial > use. Not Weblogic-level pricing at least ;) > > Their benchmark page > (http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html) > Claims "One of the main goals for the Orion Application > Server has been > to outperform everything else on the market". Very nice goal. Why > haven't they bothered to update their benchmarks in a long time? > > >but even today I still hear of concerns > >regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a > >"reference > >implementation only". > > Your peers are not up to date on this particular question. > Tomcat is a > reference implementation in the sense that it strives to implement the > servlet and JSP specifications as closely and strictly as possible. > However, it adds many features above and beyond the > specification. And > being a "reference implementation" does not necessarily mean a slow > implementation. > > Like the Orion benchmark page says, and the several > discussions per year > we have on this list all conclude, it comes down to: > - Establishing the required performance level for your application > - Creating stress tests to simulate real stress > - Running the stress tests with your application on various containers > - Tweaking / tuning whatever possible > - Repeat until satisfied. > > Personally, and I can't share the actual numbers due to legal > restrictions in my company, we've benchmarked our app with extensive > tuning on Orion, Resin, and Jetty and found Tomcat to be superior. > > Yoav Shapira > Millennium ChemInformatics > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
> From: "Turner, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:01 AM > Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns > 1. Orion is a "competitor" to Tomcat making benchmarks from them > automatically suspect (at the very least biased)...that URL is 2 years > old...massive changes have been made to Tomcat since I'm with John on this one. Not to slight Orion, but everyone knows benchmarks are meaningless, unless they're YOUR benchmarks. But think very hard about your statement here. Think about what the issue is. Here you have an application that you are thinking of or have already written. You write it to the best within your abilities and you FOLLOW THE PLATFORM SPEC. Now, it comes down to deployment, tweaking, and performance. So, you take your application and you benchmark it using whatever tools you are willing write/buy/download. If your application provides you with acceptable performance, you're done. But here's the real treat. If it's NOT, then drop it on any of several containers (Orion, Resin, Tomcat, Jetty, Sun ONE, JRun, Weblogic, Oracle, IBM...and I'm missing some). Now benchmark it again...is it better? Is it worse? Do that a couple of times and stand back and bask in the glow when it hits...had you developed your application in ANYTHING else, this would not be an option. If you wrote your app using any other technology, PHP, Perl, ASP, .NET, WebObjects, Zope, etc. then when your application was finished and you wanted to deploy it only to discover you were unhappy, you find you had no recourse. With any other methodology you would need to look for more hardware or clustering or rewriting. All of those can be expensive and complicated (and I'm not saying the having to buy licenses for some of these other containers will not be expensive, as they can be). This is the real power of what Tomcat has to offer. If it doesn't meet your production needs, then something else might, and you have the flexibility to choose that option. You can say "Tomcat sucks, forget it, I'm leaving" and move on. The portability of WebApps is getting better with every release of the specification and the containers. This is why if you follow my posts here, I almost always bring up portability because I think that it's extermely important and fundamental to the platform, it's why I like that Tomcat is the reference implementation so that I can be better assured that were striving to compliance with the spec. Now, of course, the spec is vague enough and has gray areas that can make porting difficult, and I wish Tomcat were a bit more strict on things, but portability is real, it's possible, and it can be less painful than you think. And I think we all should send a big Thank You to the Tomcat team, Sun and the spec writers for pushing this effort forward, and tell the platform providers that portability is a real concern to us as developers. Regards, Will Hartung ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
Hi Shapira, Many thanks for the reply. I agree with your list below but am looking for some simple benchmarks to start with. Also, a previous response to this posting by John Turner indicated a tuning book that may resolve some of the concerns by my peers about performance and I look forward to reading the book and trying some of its suggestions myself. Again, I am not trying cause a "Holy War" but just looking for some help. I really do believe in what is being done by Jakarta group but want to quell some rumblings by my peers. Many Thanks, Tony -Original Message- From: Shapira, Yoav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:09 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns Howdy, >Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks were >done in 2001 and are out of date Very out of date. Referring to a previous (3.x) generation of Tomcat, which is much slower than the current (4.1.x) implementation. I haven't used Orion, but looking at their front page (http://www.orionserver.com/) I see a couple of things relevant to this discussion: - Current release of Orion is a full J2EE server. Tomcat isn't and doesn't try to be. - Current release of Orion supports the Servlet 2.2 (and the "Public Draft") of Servlet 2.3 standards. That is too funny to even comment on. - Current release of Orion is $1500 per physical server for commercial use. Not Weblogic-level pricing at least ;) Their benchmark page (http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html) Claims "One of the main goals for the Orion Application Server has been to outperform everything else on the market". Very nice goal. Why haven't they bothered to update their benchmarks in a long time? >but even today I still hear of concerns >regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a >"reference >implementation only". Your peers are not up to date on this particular question. Tomcat is a reference implementation in the sense that it strives to implement the servlet and JSP specifications as closely and strictly as possible. However, it adds many features above and beyond the specification. And being a "reference implementation" does not necessarily mean a slow implementation. Like the Orion benchmark page says, and the several discussions per year we have on this list all conclude, it comes down to: - Establishing the required performance level for your application - Creating stress tests to simulate real stress - Running the stress tests with your application on various containers - Tweaking / tuning whatever possible - Repeat until satisfied. Personally, and I can't share the actual numbers due to legal restrictions in my company, we've benchmarked our app with extensive tuning on Orion, Resin, and Jetty and found Tomcat to be superior. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat Performance Concerns
I've been running a ton of benchmarks the last 3 weeks for the Tomcat Performance book with Remy. General questions like that are very hard to answer. Most performance issues are the result of bad design and poor administration. If some one is telling you "tomcat can't perform." they need to back it up with numbers. I'm assuming this is for an existing site, so you should have some web access logs to look at. If you're asking, "Can tomcat handle 1000 requests/second?" I would say it depends on the hardware, setup and the page. If it's a static page, then I would say depends on the hardware. But here's the catch. How many of those requests are for images? and how many page views does that equal? I can gaurantee that unless your Yahoo who gets 1.5billion page views a day, you're not going to get 1000 page views a second. Based on the recent presentation at PHPCon by a yahoo staff member, their average pageview per second per machine is around 4. They also have 4500 servers, so again be specific about what kinds of apps, the response threshold and peak loads. I know there are some major sites using Tomcat, though many aren't allowed to acknowledge publicly. I hope that helps. by the way, most of the benchmarks out there comparing performance of servlet containers are flawed and synthetic. In my own test with tomcat 4.1.12 with Orion's old jsp test page, Tomcat was faster than orion 1.5.3. It's very easy to write test pages that makes one server appear faster than another. peter lin --- "Anecito, Anthony (HQP)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I am looking at Tomcat for production and seeing > some things that make me > question its use for production. I believe what > Jakarta group is doing is a > great thing for all of us looking for cheaper > alternatives but there is may > be a serious issue to using Tomcat. I have seen and > now read concern about > Tomcat's performance. I found an interesting tidbit > in a newsgroup about > Tomcat performance and a reference to some > benchmarks. The benchmarks were > done in 2001 and are out of date but even today I > still hear of concerns > regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are > saying it is a "reference > implementation only". The links are as follows: > > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=performance+vs+tomcat+weblogic+websphere&h > l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=HOEFIONAHHKFEFENBMNOAEPPCBAA.rsanford%40nol > imitsystems.com&rnum=4 > > http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html > > > > If anyone knows of some more up to date information > regarding this issue > please let me know. I would really appreciate the > feedback! > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
Howdy, >Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The benchmarks were >done in 2001 and are out of date Very out of date. Referring to a previous (3.x) generation of Tomcat, which is much slower than the current (4.1.x) implementation. I haven't used Orion, but looking at their front page (http://www.orionserver.com/) I see a couple of things relevant to this discussion: - Current release of Orion is a full J2EE server. Tomcat isn't and doesn't try to be. - Current release of Orion supports the Servlet 2.2 (and the "Public Draft") of Servlet 2.3 standards. That is too funny to even comment on. - Current release of Orion is $1500 per physical server for commercial use. Not Weblogic-level pricing at least ;) Their benchmark page (http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html) Claims "One of the main goals for the Orion Application Server has been to outperform everything else on the market". Very nice goal. Why haven't they bothered to update their benchmarks in a long time? >but even today I still hear of concerns >regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it is a >"reference >implementation only". Your peers are not up to date on this particular question. Tomcat is a reference implementation in the sense that it strives to implement the servlet and JSP specifications as closely and strictly as possible. However, it adds many features above and beyond the specification. And being a "reference implementation" does not necessarily mean a slow implementation. Like the Orion benchmark page says, and the several discussions per year we have on this list all conclude, it comes down to: - Establishing the required performance level for your application - Creating stress tests to simulate real stress - Running the stress tests with your application on various containers - Tweaking / tuning whatever possible - Repeat until satisfied. Personally, and I can't share the actual numbers due to legal restrictions in my company, we've benchmarked our app with extensive tuning on Orion, Resin, and Jetty and found Tomcat to be superior. Yoav Shapira Millennium ChemInformatics - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat Performance Concerns
Well, this is probably a holy war, but: 1. Orion is a "competitor" to Tomcat making benchmarks from them automatically suspect (at the very least biased)...that URL is 2 years old...massive changes have been made to Tomcat since 2. I have a server right now that has 20 distinct instances of Tomcat on it, is serving a fairly sustained rate of 500kbps-1.2Mbps with several hundreds of open connections. About 1.3 million hits a month, but hits are misleading. CPU load (dual P3-1.2) is averaging 31%. 4GB of RAM, memory used averages about 2.2GB. Red Hat 7.2, Tomcat 3.1. So, based on my experience with a server running an ancient version of Tomcat, I would say Tomcat is just fine, given a correct configuration. That said, Remy and Peter Lin have a Tomcat performance tuning book due out this spring, so from my point of view, performance concerns with Tomcat are the least of my problems. But that's me. My bosses are happy, that's all I need to know. ;) I think the traffic on this list bears out that, by and large, performance gains (or problems) are a result of application architecture, not the application doing the serving. John > -Original Message- > From: Anecito, Anthony (HQP) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:50 PM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: Tomcat Performance Concerns > > > Hi All, > > I am looking at Tomcat for production and seeing some things > that make me > question its use for production. I believe what Jakarta group > is doing is a > great thing for all of us looking for cheaper alternatives > but there is may > be a serious issue to using Tomcat. I have seen and now read > concern about > Tomcat's performance. I found an interesting tidbit in a > newsgroup about > Tomcat performance and a reference to some benchmarks. The > benchmarks were > done in 2001 and are out of date but even today I still hear > of concerns > regarding Tomcat performance and even my peers are saying it > is a "reference > implementation only". The links are as follows: > > http://groups.google.com/groups?q=performance+vs+tomcat+weblog > ic+websphere&h > l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=HOEFIONAHHKFEFENBMNOAEPPCBAA. > rsanford%40nol > imitsystems.com&rnum=4 > > http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html > > > > If anyone knows of some more up to date information regarding > this issue > please let me know. I would really appreciate the feedback! > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
