Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
pippin;608155 Wrote: If your server connects to a GBit switch the leg from the server to the switch will be autonegotiated to 1GBit So it must be in that leg that the SQ of the packets gets mangled. -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608158 Wrote: So it must be in that leg that the SQ of the packets gets mangled. That's why I proposed 10Base2 -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Guys. Don't panic! Calm down. There is no rush to run into wild network reconfigurations. The majority is running Windows anyhow, and those Linux based NASes seem to perform as well as Windows. For now we're talking about a minority of Linux folks or better Ubuntu folks in particular. Fact is that different systems and system configurations do seem to have an impact. Now it's the task to figure out what's causing it. Stretch your legs for now. Enjoy. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;608161 Wrote: Fact is that different systems and system configurations do seem to have an impact. And according to your DIYAudio thread, this latest mod of yours makes it difficult to distinguish between Windows and Ubuntu. I have my own opinion about the source of the SQ difference. It begins with 'i'. -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Has network statistics been examined ? Has anybody counted the number of data packets being sent ? Does it change between different settings ? It's possible that there is a TCP segmentation issue and packets are segmented differently according to different settings. Has error / retrans counts on router, server and Touch been checked to see whether one if the system is having more problems (e.g. being overloaded) with one settings compared to the other. Since many Linux system have a common source for the Ethernet driver which is different to Windows - the issue could be in the driver. Wireshark could be used to compare network streams to see whether the settings change affects the contents of the packets or the dynamics of the packet stream. Can the Windows TCP registry settings be changed to match the bad settings to see if SQ of Windows server can be downgraded. -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608163 Wrote: And according to your DIYAudio thread, this latest mod of yours makes it difficult to distinguish between Windows and Ubuntu. Yep. You got it. Though it is not my latest mod. It is the first try to figure out what's causing it. That's the whole intention of my Beta Blog - to gather feedback from others about a subject under investigation. I do realize that it was much too early to involve the crowd over here and elsewhere in that discussion. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608146 Wrote: Thanks for the confirmation. So it must be the optional half duplex mod that makes all the difference then That is -one- of the possible explanations, yes. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608146 Wrote: Thanks for the confirmation. So it must be the optional half duplex mod that makes all the difference then erm...dunno. Half-duplex introduces collision detection - and lowers bandwidth. I'm not sure we can have a logical discussion about this. IF there is an effect, it is RFI/noise getting into the Touch via ethernet cable. Nothing to do with TCP/IP or any of the logical OSI layers per se. However, of course the noise profile is subject to change according to what is being sent electrically up/down the ethernet cable. I'm not convinced this has anything to do with operating systems. The first thing I would do is use CAT5 (unshielded) cable between server-router and router-Touch to avoid RF bridging. Ferrite clamps at both ends are also worth investigating. Or use wi-fi!!! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
bpa;608164 Wrote: Has network statistics been examined ? Has anybody counted the number of data packets being sent ? Does it change between different settings ? It's possible that there is a TCP segmentation issue and packets are segmented differently according to different settings. Has error / retrans counts on router, server and Touch been checked to see whether one if the system is having more problems (e.g. being overloaded) with one settings compared to the other. Since many Linux system have a common source for the Ethernet driver which is different to Windows - the issue could be in the driver. Wireshark could be used to compare network streams to see whether the settings change affects the contents of the packets or the dynamics of the packet stream. Can the Windows TCP registry or device manager settings be changed to match the bad settings to see if SQ of Windows server can be downgraded. Finally somebody with constructive feedback. Yep - we tested windows with - bad settings - how you call it. (I guess you mean the half duplex part). I just call it a setting. Linux driver issue: As you've seen people compared a Linux based NAS with W7. And here the result was similar. I even tested on a 2.6.38-rc2 kernel. Just to make sure to have the newest driver on board. Feel free to run the traces. I do regard all this as a community effort. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: IF there is an effect, it is RFI/noise getting into the Touch via ethernet cable. Nothing to do with TCP/IP or any of the logical OSI layers per se. How do yo know. Done your homework? Ever looked into TCP/IP issues and parametrization? I doubt that. Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: However, of course the noise profile is subject to change according to what is being sent electrically up/down the ethernet cable. I'm not convinced this has anything to do with operating systems. Speculations over speculations. I can't believe that. Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: The first thing I would do is use CAT5 (unshielded) cable between server-router and router-Touch to avoid RF bridging. Ferrite clamps at both ends are also worth investigating. That you can read since almost a year on my blog. If you'd read my blog. You could have learned even more about the subject and ethernet cables in particular. Phil Leigh;608168 Wrote: Or use wi-fi!!! Enjoy your Wifi. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;608173 Wrote: How do yo know. Done your homework? Ever looked into TCP/IP issues and parametrization? I doubt that. Speculations over speculations. I can't believe that. That you can read since almost a year on my blog. If you'd read my blog. You could have learned even more about the subject and ethernet cables in particular. Enjoy your Wifi. By baselessly insulting and patronising me you merely make yourself look even more foolish. As a matter of fact, I was one of the first people outside of IBM to get TCP running on OS/2 over Token Ring! So yes I do know what I'm talking about, thanks. As for your ethernet mod: how is that OS-specific? all you are doing is configuring the server NIC to run at 100Mbs half-duplex...so you are simply forcing half-duplex, which reduces bandwidth. You can do the same thing on ANY OS. ...and before you ask, yes I have compared SBS 7.6 on Ubuntu 10 vs XP SP3 on different machines over Ethernet and guess what - THEY SOUND IDENTICAL. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;608172 Wrote: Linux driver issue: As you've seen people compared a Linux based NAS with W7. And here the result was similar. similar as in some found Linux to be better (ReadyNAS) and some found it to be worse? -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: By baselessly insulting and patronising me you merely make yourself look even more foolish. I don't think so. Your cynism is omnipresent. You're the measurement guy over here who is not delivering anything, since weeks. If RMI/EMI makes it through the ground, who else around here has the EQ to prove what he is saying. Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: As a matter of fact, I was one of the first people outside of IBM to get TCP running on OS/2 over Token Ring! Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: When was that again. Phil Leigh;608179 Wrote: As for your ethernet mod: how is that OS-specific? all you are doing is configuring the server NIC to run at 100Mbs half-duplex...so you are simply forcing half-duplex, which reduces bandwidth. You can do the same thing on ANY OS. I know what I'm doing. I also know what half duplex means. I also have a stonage degree on networking dear Phil. ...and before you ask, yes I have compared SBS 7.6 on Ubuntu 10 vs XP SP3 on different machines over Ethernet and guess what - THEY SOUND IDENTICAL. Sound identical to your ears on your system. It's all relative. BTW: Are you still running room equalitzation filtering on your Tacts by the way? -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
pippin;608181 Wrote: similar as in some found Linux to be better (ReadyNAS) and some found it to be worse? I would have to look it up. Whatsoever. Some peole hear nothing, some hear this, the others hear that. The OS seems to have an impact. For me a sign the have a closer look at it. No more speculations to feed the sharks. Each network itself has so many variables. BTW: I was just informed by mail that I should not forget to have a closer look at my Windows server network settings! -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Klaus, and anyone else who suspects that network comms are affecting SQ I think it was Phil who offered a simple test. Pull the ethernet cable out of the back of your Touch while it is playing a track. By definition, all network comms will stop at that moment, but the Touch will have around 40s of audio buffered internally (if you're streaming FLAC, presumably less if streaming WAV, more if streaming lossy compressed data), so you'll hear nothing but unadulterated playback of buffered audio. If pulling out the cable isn't practical for you, just wait until the track reaches 40s from the end, at which point the buffer will stop filling for about 30s (ie 10s before the start of the next track). I guess that if you've only queued a single track, then even that final 10s will be free of network traffic too. (NB these are the characteristics that I've observed on a Mac - it would be good to get similar simple observations from servers on other operating systems) This is surely a way for Klaus to gather wider feedback, since anybody can do this, and he won't be limited to just those people with two operating systems running. I suspect that the same 40s quiet period exists in wireless setups too (I'll check later), so the last 40s of a track would be a nice place to test the effect of wireless comms. So come on folks - let's help Klaus out here. What differences do you all notice during these golden 40s periods? -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;608191 Wrote: I would have to look it up. Whatsoever. Some peole hear nothing, some hear this, the others hear that. The OS seems to have an impact. For me a sign to have a closer look at it. Each network itself has too many variables to come to a general conclusion, that's my guess. No more speculations from my side to feed the sharks. Not to worry. In fact, I've been told I'm crazy when I told people the sound improve when I put both my Dlink switch and ReadyNas Duo on a Isolation transformer. I think the sound will be always better when SBS is accessing the digital files directly then broadcasting to the SBT. Accessing the files via network and then re-broadcasting SBT via network has a deterioration effect. -- kiat kiat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30044 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608197 Wrote: Klaus, and anyone else who suspects that network comms are affecting SQ I think it was Phil who offered a simple test. Pull the ethernet cable out of the back of your Touch while it is playing a track. By definition, all network comms will stop at that moment, but the Touch will have around 40s of audio buffered internally (if you're streaming FLAC, presumably less if streaming WAV, more if streaming lossy compressed data), so you'll hear nothing but unadulterated playback of buffered audio. If pulling out the cable isn't practical for you, just wait until the track reaches 40s from the end, at which point the buffer will stop filling for about 30s (ie 10s before the start of the next track). I guess that if you've only queued a single track, then even that final 10s will be free of network traffic too. (NB these are the characteristics that I've observed on a Mac - it would be good to get similar simple observations from servers on other operating systems) This is surely a way for Klaus to gather wider feedback, since anybody can do this, and he won't be limited to just those people with two operating systems running. I suspect that the same 40s quiet period exists in wireless setups too (I'll check later), so the last 40s of a track would be a nice place to test the effect of wireless comms. So come on folks - let's help Klaus out here. What differences do you all notice during these golden 40s periods? Good luck with that very intelligent cable pull test. My blood pressure boils up while running back and forth pulling cables to catch the effective slot of 10s. I already hear the sharks commenting on non-compliant ABX testing. Then I don't even know what kind of routines will start up on the OS side, after pulling the plug. This can't be considered normal operation. Good luck to those who gonna give it a try. And guys. You don't help M. You help yourself. I'm not really interested if a QNAP 1234 or a Sheevaplug rev performs any different from an Apple Mini. I got a well working system at home. And I'm able to manage it quite well. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Indeed. One can feel your blood pressure going up here. Sorry, but the style by which you comment here to people who even take this discussion serious and contribute useful ideas on how to clear things up just discredit everything you propose yourself. -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;608209 Wrote: Good luck with that very intelligent cable pull test. My blood pressure boils up while running back and forth pulling cables to catch the effective slot of 10s. I already hear the sharks commenting on non-compliant ABX testing. Then I don't even know what kind of routines will start up on the OS side, after pulling the plug. This can't be considered normal operation. Good luck to those who gonna give it a try. And guys. You don't help M. You help yourself. I'm not really interested if a QNAP 1234 or a Sheevaplug rev performs any different from an Apple Mini. I got a well working system at home. And I'm able to manage it quite well. You have 40 seconds, not 10. If you can't hear a difference, then there isn't one, right? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;608051 Wrote: Anyone with dual OSX/Windows boot tried the comparison? I don't have a dual boot (only running Squeezebox server on OSX), but I'd really like to learn whether there are any audible differences between the two OSs. But you have been arguing that what other people believe/hear is irrelevant to one's own musical experience -- so what would it matter if someone else could or couldn't detect an audible difference? Self-esteem a little low today? :-) -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
aubuti;608326 Wrote: But you have been arguing that what other people believe/hear is irrelevant to one's own musical experience -- so what would it matter if someone else could or couldn't detect an audible difference? Self-esteem a little low today? :-) I never said that. I said that if I'm enjoying something, and my peers are applying peer pressure to try and convince me that I'm not actually enjoying it, that if I succumb to their pressure I'd be suffering from low self-esteem. However, if I hear from someone that there is something nice to be had over there, of course I'm going to become interested. That's not suffering from low self-esteem. For example, I was pretty pleased with my Touch, because I could hear vast improvements in the sound quality over my Duet. All fine and dandy. Then, one day, I learn about Soundcheck's mods, and how he and some other people are raving about the improvements. Add to that the fact that it costs nothing to try, and before you know it, I ended up also doing the mods. And guess what? They work miracles for my system! The sound is much better, more revealing, I'm hearing oodles of beautiful musical details that become hidden again the moment I undo the mods. That much is clear. Now, there are tight chested naysayers who, out of stupidity of jealousy or envy, or just out of the fucked up inner need to be contrarians, insist that I'm full of shit for claiming that I hear improvements after applying Soundcheck's mods. To these tight chested people I say a very loud and clear fuck you!. That's high self-esteem for ya! -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;608392 Wrote: To these tight chested people I say a very loud and clear fuck you!. I agree totally :) For me the soundcheck mods are also GREAT improvement. Thank You Klaus ! -- praganj praganj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41091 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Hi soundcheck I've compared the difference 1) ReadyNas Duo 1GB, firmware 4.1.7, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0~31873 2) Win 7 64bit, 8GB, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0~31873 I personally find that the ReadyNas Duo sounds better. Cleaner with tigher bass. -- kiat kiat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30044 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;607501 Wrote: If we continue in this idiotically scholastic fashion, pretty soon someone will claim that the rain is falling because the grass is growing. Answers.com: 'How does vegetation affect climate?' (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_vegetation_affect_climate) -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
kiat;607866 Wrote: Hi soundcheck I've compared the difference 1) ReadyNas Duo 1GB, firmware 4.1.7, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0~31873 2) Win 7 64bit, 8GB, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0~31873 I personally find that the ReadyNas Duo sounds better. Cleaner with tigher bass. I got similar feedback from a guy running a QNAP. Could it be an Ubuntu issue? Perhaps those NASs use a better network optimized parametrization?!?! However. Good news from my side. For now I figured out a workaround for Ubuntu based servers. I'll put the workaround on my TT-beta-blog as soon as I find some time for it. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I also did a comparison with the following setup: 1) Squeezeplug + USB Drive with SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0 - 31873 OS: Debian Linux 6.0 - DE - utf8 Architecture: armv5tel-linux Perl-Version: 5.10.1 - arm-linux-gnueabi-thread-multi DBD: SQLite 1.32_01 (sqlite 3.7.4) 2) Win7 64bit, 12GB, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0 - 31873 Squeezebox Touch Firmware: 7.6.0-r9297 So far I could not hear any difference in soundquality at all. On both systems the SBT sounds great with soundcheck's mods. By the way: It is safe to use any of the 7.6.x-versions of SBS, but a factory reset before installation of the mods is mandatory. -- Soundman Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Soundman;607962 Wrote: I also did a comparison with the following setup: 1) Squeezeplug + USB Drive with SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0 - 31873 OS: Debian Linux 6.0 - DE - utf8 Architecture: armv5tel-linux Perl-Version: 5.10.1 - arm-linux-gnueabi-thread-multi DBD: SQLite 1.32_01 (sqlite 3.7.4) 2) Win7 64bit, 12GB, SqueezeBoxServer 7.6.0 - 31873 Squeezebox Touch Firmware: 7.6.0-r9297 Interesting. Perhaps you'd try my workaround. You never know -- it might get even better. ;) BTW: Does your Sheevaplug got enough power to do server based flac decoding? -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I just wrote up the instructions on TT Beta Blog for the Linux folks around here. Let me know what you think. Have fun. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;607965 Wrote: BTW: Does your Sheevaplug got enough power to do server based flac decoding? Yes, absolutely no problem at all. I always use server based flac decoding and I have many 24/96 tracks. I'm listening to music right now and the serverload is minimal: CPU load averages 0.30 (1 min) 0.25 (5 mins) 0.19 (15 mins) CPU usage 1% user, 0% kernel, 0% IO, 99% idle a minute later: CPU load averages 0.32 (1 min) 0.33 (5 mins) 0.24 (15 mins) CPU usage 2% user, 1% kernel, 0% IO, 97% idle When the track nears it's end there are short spikes, but always below 20%. And shortly after it goes back down to a few %. -- Soundman Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;607968 Wrote: I just wrote up the instructions on TT Beta Blog for the Linux folks around here. Let me know what you think. Have fun. Anyone with dual OSX/Windows boot tried the comparison? I don't have a dual boot (only running Squeezebox server on OSX), but I'd really like to learn whether there are any audible differences between the two OSs. P.S. Earlier today I got quite upset when I found out that my dog chewed through all my punched cards, so now I'm forced to go back to all digital:( -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;608093 Wrote: Do you have a theory for how this can affect sound quality? According to the specification page for the Touch, it's wired ethernet 'connects to any 100 Mbps or 10 Mbps network' - no mention of Gigabit - so wouldn't a Linux box end up talking to the Touch at 100Mbps anyway? No. The linux box talks to nothing but the next switch. There your precious bits will be buffered, sent through an internal bus, re-packaged and sent to the next device in the link. How about trying to use 10Base2 coax? That will give you an even lower bandwidth, will be half-duplex, too, you can terminate it with a nice resistor, it's shielded, has those worthy BNC connectors and you can be sure to always talk directly to your Squeezebox since it's a bus, no switches in between. Fortunately, I've still got a few meters lying around, how's that? O, wait, too bad, the Touch doesn't have a coax network connector. That would make for a nice mod, wouldn't it? -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote and *New: iPeng for iPad*, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;607968 Wrote: I just wrote up the instructions on TT Beta Blog for the Linux folks around here. Let me know what you think. Have fun. Hi Soundcheck My ReadyNas Due is running the SqueezeboxServer directly internally. Both the Win7 and ReadyNas is running at 1000MBit I still find the ReadyNas sounds better -- kiat kiat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30044 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
tonyptony;607837 Wrote: I may have missed this, but has anyone else found the digital volume of the Touch locked at 50% after applying the 2.0 mods? I did a full hard button reset, then install of 2.0. It went fine. I did all of the recommended Soundcheck tweaks, but I did leave all outputs active. I'm using v7.5.1 of SS and the Touch was updated to the latest FW before I installed 2.0. Any help? I see mention of a ttvol in this thread but that was not described in the 2.0 section of the blog. -- tonyptony tonyptony's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
pippin;608101 Wrote: No. The linux box talks to nothing but the next switch. There your precious bits will be buffered, sent through an internal bus, re-packaged and sent to the next device in the link. Indeed - that's how my own setup looks, so I see that my Mac ethernet interface runs at 100Mbps, presumably because the switch that it's connected to is not gigabit-capable. But I suppose it's possible that the dedicated audiophile would connect the server directly to the Touch in the pursuit of ultimate SQ. This mod seems to suppose that gigabit must be more taxing on the Touch processor so it must be limited to 100Mbps. But as far as I can tell from the specs, it doesn't do gigabit anyway. kiat;608105 Wrote: My ReadyNas Due is running the SqueezeboxServer directly internally. Both the Win7 and ReadyNas is running at 1000MBit Does your ReadyNas connect to a switch or directly to the Touch? Is the complete path from the ReadyNas to the Touch gigabit-capable? -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;608145 Wrote: The Touch ONLY does 100Mb... so assuming a typical setup of server-router-Touch, the whole chain will be autonegotiated down to running at 100Mb anyway. Thanks for the confirmation. So it must be the optional half duplex mod that makes all the difference then -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Update: Disregard those figures. I found a way to isolate the Perl module in the activity monitor, and I queued up a FLAC album (previous figures were based on an old OGG album). The Perl process seems to maintain a continuous level of network traffic at around 110-140KB/sec, until about 40 seconds from the end of a track, when it drops to around 25KB/sec. At about 10 seconds from the end it spikes to 1.6MB/sec. So it seems as though that spike is the player filling the buffer with the next track, and then the buffer is topped up continuously until near the end of the track (-40s) when the whole of the remainder of the track is in the buffer. So all that this shows is that, for the Mac at least, the period between -40s and -10s should be virtually free of network traffic, and should sound better than the rest of the track if there's anything to this theory. -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607593 Wrote: Update: Disregard those figures. I found a way to isolate the Perl module in the activity monitor, and I queued up a FLAC album (previous figures were based on an old OGG album). The Perl process seems to maintain a continuous level of network traffic at around 110-140KB/sec, until about 40 seconds from the end of a track, when it drops to around 25KB/sec. At about 10 seconds from the end it spikes to 1.6MB/sec. So it seems as though that spike is the player filling the buffer with the next track, and then the buffer is topped up continuously until near the end of the track (-40s) when the whole of the remainder of the track is in the buffer. So all that this shows is that, for the Mac at least, the period between -40s and -10s should be virtually free of network traffic, and should sound better than the rest of the track if there's anything to this theory. You know what I try next. I'm gonna play a wav file from SD-card with aplay from Touch commandline. ;) And just to mention it: All PC based audiophile players use mainly full file RAM buffering. Mainly to avoid heavy I/O load during playback. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;607292 Wrote: Confirmed! For W7 and Vista What about Win XP? I'm running SBS on XP SP1. -- Kuja Kuja's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Kuja;607622 Wrote: What about Win XP? I'm running SBS on XP SP1. SP1 ! wow. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607593 Wrote: So all that this shows is that, for the Mac at least, the period between -40s and -10s should be virtually free of network traffic, and should sound better than the rest of the track if there's anything to this theory. soundcheck;607596 Wrote: And just to mention it: All PC based audiophile players use mainly full file RAM buffering. Mainly to avoid heavy I/O load during playback. I forgot to mention that my figures are for an unmodified Touch, so the size of the internal buffer is as Logitech intended. Am I understanding correctly the effect of the buffer reduction mod in believing that the Touch will be able to store less audio as a result of reducing that buffer size? If so, I guess a modified Touch will suffer from this continuous network traffic even during that golden -40s to -10s period. -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607642 Wrote: I forgot to mention that my figures are for an unmodified Touch, so the size of the internal buffer is as Logitech intended. Am I understanding correctly the effect of the buffer reduction mod in believing that the Touch will be able to store less audio as a result of reducing that buffer size? If so, I guess a modified Touch will suffer from this continuous network traffic even during that golden -40s to -10s period. My buffer mod refers to the Alsa buffer size on the output. Which is 4000us. What you are refering to is the streaming buffer on the input receiver side. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Ah, OK. Have you been able to check the characteristics of the network traffic under Windows and/or Linux? Are they anything like the numbers I observed on the Mac? -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607649 Wrote: Ah, OK. Have you been able to check the characteristics of the network traffic under Windows and/or Linux? Are they anything like the numbers I observed on the Mac? The friend of mine has done it. He measured higher throughput on his Windows machine. I havn't done much on a W7 system yet. I just did throughput tests on my Linux machine, while trying to tweak the ethernet parameters on both ends. Let see. I maybe have a solution to get the Linux issue resolved. We'll be testing it tonight. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Kuja;607622 Wrote: What about Win XP? I'm running SBS on XP SP1. I'm now working on running Squeezebox Server under Windows 3.1 - with the much lower operating system overhead, I'm expecting far superior results. And once I get that set up, DOS and CP/M will be next. -- ftlight ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
ftlight;607796 Wrote: I'm now working on running Squeezebox Server under Windows 3.1 - with the much lower operating system overhead, I'm expecting far superior results. And once I get that set up, DOS and CP/M will be next. Please don't shoot the messenger, but I'm getting absolutely superior digital streaming sound quality ever since I've switched to the system operating on a batch of punched cards. Try it, you'll never look back! A match made in heaven -- it's where the analog meets the digital;) -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;607803 Wrote: Please don't shoot the messenger, but I'm getting absolutely superior digital streaming sound quality ever since I've switched to the system operating on a batch of punched cards. Try it, you'll never look back! A match made in heaven -- it's where the analog meets the digital;) I find my punch cards using COBOL language are even better than the cards with FORTRAN. ;-) -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
garym;607809 Wrote: I find my punch cards using COBOL language are even better than the cards with FORTRAN. ;-) Haha! COBOL? Dilettante! I urge you to switch to RPG II. You won't believe your ears -- the sound is much punchier (pun intended), especially if you keep your RPG indicators in the low columns (say, between 00 and 09). COBOL carries so much processing overhead it's not even funny. It muddies the sound so much, that I don't know if it's opera that's playing or Justin Bieber. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;607814 Wrote: COBOL carries so much processing overhead it's not even funny. It muddies the sound so much, that I don't know if it's opera that's playing or Justin Bieber. +1 ...and if we've even heard of COBOL, we're too old to have much hearing left.. I lost most of mine on the front row of a few Who concerts (Who's Next Quadrophenia tours). All my search for better sounding stuff is mostly just theoretical! -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
garym;607816 Wrote: +1 ...and if we've even heard of COBOL, we're too old to have much hearing left.. I lost most of mine on the front row of a few Who concerts (Who's Next Quadrophenia tours). All my search for better sounding stuff is mostly just theoretical! In my case, I'm relying on my dog to let me know if the upgrade was worthwhile. Every now and then, when I apply the latest Touch mod, my dog gets startled from his everyday haze, lying down on the floor by my feet, perks his ears, lifts his head, and looks in the direction of the speakers. That's when I know I've fooled him, and that the mod worked! (and believe me, that old mutt is not that easy to fool;) So unlike you, I'm staying on the empirical ground... Fuck the theory! -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I may have missed this, but has anyone else found the digital volume of the Touch locked at 50% after applying the 2.0 mods? I did a full hard button reset, then install of 2.0. It went fine. I did all of the recommended Soundcheck tweaks, but I did leave all outputs active. I'm using v7.5.1 of SS and the Touch was updated to the latest FW before I installed 2.0. -- tonyptony tonyptony's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Because we always hear that both Linux and OSX based boxes are better. Witness products like the Auraliti and Mach2Mini. In addition, lots of industry insiders/designers of computer based solutions prefer MAC and Linux (example: Gordon at Wavelength). -- firedog Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF V DAC3, MF X-150 amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
firedog;607323 Wrote: Because we always hear that both Linux and OSX based boxes are better. Witness products like the Auraliti and Mach2Mini. In addition, lots of industry insiders/designers of computer based solutions prefer MAC and Linux (example: Gordon at Wavelength). It's not that easy as you might think. And it is not black or either. You need to differentiate a bit more. Logitech is not using the soundlayer of any OS on the server side (let's not talk about Alsa on the Touch for now). What I am talking about is the communication towards the streaming client, which seems to be less efficient on my Linux system. If people or manufacturers talking about their preferences, they talk about a combination of operating system, soundlayer (incl. driver), application and sound device. That's a complete different story. Today OSX sounds good because there is an Amarra or a channeld Pure Music. Which shows that the application is in charge of making sure that the system resources are utilized in the best possible way. There hasn't been very much focus on this neither on the Windows nor in the Linux world. One of the best sounding app in Windows land is nowadays J.River media center. If you ask the Linux audio crowd, they'll tell you they all sound the same. No need to do anything about it. And that's why Gordon is right - from his perspective. I'd agree that OSX app designers have understood. They seem to put more focus on the subject then anybody else out there. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Well, I really don't know how come but I hear difference in sound dynamics when I play from 7.6 sb server on Win7 laptop or 7.6 sb server from Qnap 219P (ssots) with same settings and both wired with cat 5e where I prefer the nas. -- PietB PietB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39880 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607291 Wrote: Can you clarify - are you saying that your Squeezebox Touch sounds better when connected to Squeezebox Server running on Windows 7 than it does when connected to Squeezebox Server running on Linux? SOUNDCHECK: Confirmed! For W7 and Vista Good Lord! Just when you thought all OS 'sound' the same! ;) Guido F. -- guidof *Front End*: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge; Cambridge Azur 840C CD Player; Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch Music File Player (digital out to Cambridge Azur 840C DAC) *Preamps*: Conrad Johnson Motif (Phono); Adcom GFP-750 (Line) *Amps*: Music Reference RM-200 Mk II (Main); Little Tube Mk III (Phones) *Subwoofer Equalizer*: DSpeaker Antimode 8033 *Speakers*: Martin Logan SL3s; REL T1 Subwoofer *Headphones*: AKG K701 guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
guidof;607399 Wrote: *SOUNDCHECK:* Confirmed! For W7 and Vista Good Lord! Just when you thought all OS 'sound' the same! ;) Guido F. Can anyone compare the same between Windows and OSX? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;607365 Wrote: It's not that easy as you might think. And it is not black or white either. You need to differentiate a bit more. Logitech is not using the soundlayer of any OS on the server side (let's not talk about Alsa on the Touch for now). What I am talking about is the communication towards the streaming client, which seems to be less efficient on a Linux system. However. It could also be that the Squeezebox Server is not that well integrated into the Linux environment. It doesn't have to be the Linux itself causing the difference. If people or manufacturers talking about their preferences, they talk about a combination of operating system, soundlayer (incl. driver), application and sound device. That's a complete different story. Today OSX sounds good because there is an Amarra or a Channeld Pure Music. Those apps are good examples that the application is in charge of making sure that the system resources are utilized in the best possible way. So, you can't claim OSX sounds bad while running iTunes. Because it sounds good while running Pure Music. There hasn't been very much focus on this issue neither in the Windows nor in the Linux world. (nor in the Squeezebox world) One of the best sounding app in Windows consumer land is nowadays J.River media center. In the early days those guys also belonged to fraction of software developpers who didn't see a correlation between HW/SW and soundquality/timing variations jitter. They rather were attacking people with different views. If you talk to the Linux audio crowd nowadays, they'll still tell you all applications sound the same. No need to do anything about it. Some Linux app designers (e.g. ecasound/brutefir) focus on very low latencies and highly efficient programming. Guess what - those apps also sound better - just by accidant. And that's why Gordon is right - from his perspective. I'd agree that OSX app designers have understood. They seem to put more focus on the subject then anybody else out there. It doesn't mean though that Windows or Linux perform worse then OSX in general. With a great app those OS might even perfom better than OSX+app - who knows. Cheers OK, let's assume the worst case scenario: somehow, Squeezebox integration with Windows wins over any other integration, thus resulting in better sound. What are we to do now? The main reason I'm using OSX in my household is so that I don't have to become a systems and network administrator and constantly worry about viruses, malware, firewall upgrades, and other shit Windows are notorious for. If I now have to switch to Windows, what would be the risks? Had the Microsoft OS matured a bit, and is it now less susceptible to go bonkers than it was 5 years ago? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I realise y'all aren't wi-fi fans, but you should try comparing the sound of the IP packets sent to the Touch via Windows to those from OSX AND linux over wi-fi... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
guidof;607399 Wrote: *SOUNDCHECK:* Confirmed! For W7 and Vista Good Lord! Just when you thought all OS 'sound' the same! ;) I'm waiting to hear that Cisco switches sound better than Nortel, which of course is going to sound better than Netgear or D-Link. It's quite entertaining to hear the non-technical put their own spin on something which is quite absolute. The DTS test is all you need to verify that this is complete tripe, without getting into the technicalities of the OSI and hardware abstraction models and then network data transmission. -- paulster paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I could have sworn it was the first of February and not the first of April. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
andynormancx;607480 Wrote: I could have sworn it was the first of February and not the first of April. you made my day ;-) -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Maybe Windows and Linux use different default MTU sizes resulting in different timing behaviour of the Touches network chip? If that is the cause, then tweaking the linux parameters might help. Where on former mods I didn't believe that they could cause any audible difference - here we at least would have an explanation. -- bluegaspode Big Screen for great Boxes available now at your AppStore: *'Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad ' (www.squeezepad.com)* - -now featuring streaming to iPad!- Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? = why not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827) Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? = why not try my 'Headphone Switcher Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139) Setup: 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 2xSB-Radio Server (7.5.x) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
bluegaspode;607489 Wrote: Maybe Windows and Linux use different default MTU sizes resulting in different timing behaviour of the Touches network chip? If that is the cause, then tweaking the linux parameters might help. Where on former mods I didn't believe that they could cause any audible difference - here we at least would have an explanation. The incoming data hits a not-insubstantial buffer though, so the MTU and timing of the data won't make a jot of difference unless the buffer empties. The other night I managed to disconnect one of my players and patch in a switch into the wall port and back to the player, which had to re-DHCP, and it didn't drop a note whilst streaming FLAC. The buffer is that big! -- paulster paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
paulster;607477 Wrote: It's quite entertaining to hear the non-technical put their own spin on something which is quite absolute. The DTS test is all you need to verify that this is complete tripe, without getting into the technicalities of the OSI and hardware abstraction models and then network data transmission. I'm amazed at how someone can claim that something in the sphere of human experience can be labeled 'absolute'. There is absolutely nothing absolute with regards to how we humans experience phenomena around us, as well as within us. Everything about it is absolutely relative. This being said, has any of the foaming-at-the-mouth naysayers here ever listened comparatively to the playback of the same track using Linux and then using some other OS? In case you have, and you couldn't hear any difference, that's great, and good for you. But please don't claim that something is not possible before you give it a try. If we continue in this idiotically scholastic fashion, pretty soon someone will claim that the rain is falling because the grass is growing. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
paulster;607495 Wrote: The incoming data hits a not-insubstantial buffer though, so the MTU and timing of the data won't make a jot of difference unless the buffer empties. Nah - regardless of the buffer size, the new packets are still arriving on the network card and might effect timing on the Touchs inner circuits. Trust your ears! Just yesterday I also read an article that lossless compressed audio files flatten the sound compared to their lossless uncompressed counterparts. If you don't try this yourself you will never believe it though. -- bluegaspode Big Screen for great Boxes available now at your AppStore: *'Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad ' (www.squeezepad.com)* - -now featuring streaming to iPad!- Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? = why not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827) Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? = why not try my 'Headphone Switcher Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139) Setup: 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 2xSB-Radio Server (7.5.x) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607504 Wrote: Indeed - I've noticed the same thing, so for most of the time the player is probably simply playing out the contents of the buffer. I can't be sure, but it doesn't seem as though there is a continuous stream of data to the player, but rather an occasional spurt of data to refill the buffer. This is true. The players pull data in chunks across the network. And they are always playing the buffer contents. chill;607504 Wrote: But I'm making the mistake of using my deductive reasoning and my engineering/scientific superstition again - how idiotically scholastic. ;-) -- paulster paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;607504 Wrote: Indeed - I've noticed the same thing, so for most of the time the player is probably simply playing out the contents of the buffer. I can't be sure, but it doesn't seem as though there is a continuous stream of data to the player, but rather an occasional spurt of data to refill the buffer. If that's the case, then differences in processor load or player activity should be audible (if at all) only during these data spurts. If Linux is somehow inferior during these spurts, the effect should be to make Linux sound worse in spurts, not continuously. But I'm making the mistake of using my deductive reasoning and my engineering/scientific superstition again - how idiotically scholastic. When I monitor my network traffic on my PC I get a continuous 1% utilization while each track is playing. At the end of the track utilizatiom drops to zero then there is a short spike of 12% or so, then it flatlines to 1%. I assume this is the traffic from PC to router. -- Greg Erskine Greg Erskine's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7403 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Does that short spike occur about 10 seconds before the end of the track, as opposed to at the very end of the track? That would make sense, because I believe SBS sends the next track into the SB's buffer when there are 10 seconds left on the current track (which is why, for instance, it is possible to crossfade for up to seconds). -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Those who have complete disdain for that superstitious scientific stuff may want to check out this new product from Machina Dynamica... Machina Dynamica's latest product, Codename Blue Meanies, is a set of 4 adhesive-backed 3/4 blue dots that are attached to the walls of the listening room, one dot per wall. If there are only three walls in the room, two blue dots should be placed on one of the walls. Codename Green Meanies are now available for the ceiling of the listening room, one or more per ceiling. The Blue Meanie is neither a damper nor a resonator so it's location on the wall, unlike dampers and resonators, is not critical whatsoever. A Blue Meanie can be placed anywhere on the wall; it can even be hidden behind a picture or bookcase. Four white 3/4 removeable paper stickers are provided to cover the blue dots if desired, making them less conspicuous. Codename Blue Meanies operates via mind matter-interaction. The subconscious mind interacts with room boundaries, i.e., closed-in spaces, producing a claustrophobic reaction that interferes with and degrades the listener's sensory perception. Price $99 for set of 4 Blue Meanies. Additional benefits can be obtained by placing more than one Blue Meanie per wall and by placing one or more Blue Meanie on walls of other rooms in the house. Likewise, one or more Green Meanie can be used for the listening room ceiling and for ceilings of other rooms in the house. NOW AVAILABLE!! - Codename Green Meanies for the ceiling. Price $25 each. CUSTOMER COMMENTS I listened to the dots last night and there seems to be a clear improvement in making the music less congested. Strange. - January 2011 -- jfo jfo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1135 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;607469 Wrote: I realise y'all aren't wi-fi fans, but you should try comparing the sound of the IP packets sent to the Touch via Windows to those from OSX AND linux over wi-fi... Even with all the flaws related to a wired connection being untouched, the wireless connection was worse. In fact it is most probably not the wireless connection as such, I suspect the wpa decryption, wireless driver etc. on the Touch to be the main bottleneck. There is a very little chance that'll get better with many of the wired flaws being addressed. However once in while it's good to reallign. I might give it a try. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
bluegaspode;607503 Wrote: Trust your ears! Just yesterday I also read an article that lossless compressed audio files flatten the sound compared to their lossless uncompressed counterparts. If you don't try this yourself you will never believe it though. Great that you read an article. You could have tested it by yourself to find out. Fact is. It's not the flac itself, which sounds flat or different from wav. From a PCM perspective it is 100% identical to .wav once decoded. It is the realtime decoding causing the difference. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
paulster;607477 Wrote: I'm waiting to hear that Cisco switches sound better than Nortel, which of course is going to sound better than Netgear or D-Link. It's quite entertaining to hear the non-technical put their own spin on something which is quite absolute. The DTS test is all you need to verify that this is complete tripe, without getting into the technicalities of the OSI and hardware abstraction models and then network data transmission. Read my blog. I got an network/ethernet section over there. You'll find what you're looking for. Regarding non-technical: I am a graduated telecommunications engineer. I established my first Cisco based US wide WANs in 1992. You bet that I know what I'm talking about. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Greg Erskine;607542 Wrote: When I monitor my network traffic on my PC I get a continuous 1% utilization while each track is playing. At the end of the track utilizatiom drops to zero then there is a short spike of 12% or so, then it flatlines to 1%. I assume this is the traffic from PC to router. As near as I can tell on my Mac, it looks like a similar pattern. I assume it is the 'Perl5.10.0' process that's responsible for sending the data. While SBS is stopped, there is a continuous 'background' level of network traffic with a rate of about 75-90 KB/sec. This must be other processes that are running, although the computer is essentially idle. When SBS is running I see the same background level for most of the time, so any additional network traffic caused by having SBS running is all but negligible compared to other background tasks. Right at the end of a track this network traffic spikes at around 1.5-2 MB/sec for a few seconds, and the Perl5.10.0 process jumps to around 12% CPU activity. It's difficult to tell whether this spike occurs exactly at the end of the track or 10 seconds before, as I'm guessing that the activity monitor has a bit of a lag. So certainly this doesn't point to any obvious reason why network traffic could have any effect on sound quality during all but the last seconds of a playing track. -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
dsdreamer;606323 Wrote: Holding down the little reset button for 5 seconds so that all firmware and settings are restored. I found that if you let the firmware upgrade happen with Soundcheck's mods left in place you get a into an undefined state where some of the mods are over-written and other bits of script and executable are still left hanging around. A full factory restore is needed to properly re-install the mods. Thanks dsd. -- tonyptony tonyptony's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;605316 Wrote: BTW: Did you do factory reset before you upgraded? Is Reset Player Preferences from the Settings menu sufficient, or does it require a real hardware reset? -- tonyptony tonyptony's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
tonyptony;606274 Wrote: Is Reset Player Preferences from the Settings menu sufficient, or does it require a real hardware reset? Holding down the little reset button for 5 seconds so that all firmware and settings are restored. I found that if you let the firmware upgrade happen with Soundcheck's mods left in place you get a into an undefined state where some of the mods are over-written and other bits of script and executable are still left hanging around. A full factory restore is needed to properly re-install the mods. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
@Phil Leigh. Thanks for taking time to do careful measurements. Some of us a extremely interested to see measured data, whether it confirms our subjective impressions or otherwise. -- dsdreamer -- Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you... dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I'm pretty active since years on Audio Asylum and DIY-Audio. Just a side note - the way I see certain things: Audio Asylum is used by some manufactures as a marketing platform -- same over here, different people though. (perhaps those manufacturers havn't even realized that ;) ) Just by being present over here and supporting people with honest professional advise, will do marketing for them. As long as this complies to the forum rules there's nothing wrong about it. If it is Logitech staff or those iApp developers/company owners to name two parties with commercial interests I recognize over here doesn't matter. I do think that this forum is a Logitech company driven forum, not a private one -- right!?!? At least Logitech can do and claim whatever they want over here. So, at least some of you guys don't be so naive to think you'd be on save ground over here. You're not. Back to Audio Asylum and the measurements 1. For years I've been facing similar discussions as well as CICS who developed CPLAY/CMP on an XP platform. Especially the manufacturers ( with estimated accumulated 200 years of audio experience) were heavily opposing what was evident to those who were running those special PC installations. Manufacturer refrain: We measured it with 20k+ equipment. It's nothing there. Nonsense. (Even if they would have experienced the audible changes, you bet they wouldn't have told us) How in the world was I supposed to get around such an argument at that time!?!? Impossible. Nowadays pretty much all of them are running Amarra and Pure Music on their MACs. The funny thing, those apps are doing nothing else then that what my mods or Cics stuff were doing at that earlier time. Nowadays certain mods are applied the Touch. The best thing of all: Ayre even developed their own OSX SW player! Go to RMAF or CES. Count how many DAC manufacturers are using those apps. Ask them why they need it? iTunes is supposed to be bit-transparent! To wrap it up. If NON of those manufacturers gets the PC induced problems solved or measured it's not a competitive disadvantage to run those apps. As soon as the first DAC supplier gets the problem solved the competition will have a serious problem to explain why they have to use Amarra or similar. 2. Some words about SPDIF. There have been endless discussions about SPDIF and its quality potential, implementation, cable length asf. Try to look it up. It doesn't matter where you look -- e.g. Lavry or Empirical Audio or whoever -- non of them can give a consistent answer what to do with the SPDIF associated problems. Try to figure out a simple question about what cable length to use. Those vary from couple of inches to a couple of meters. Lavry and/or Nugent for sure have measured it and both of them are highly regarded audio specialists. Both of them come up with an opposite recommendation. I could go on and on with examples of people fail to measure and to nail down those SPDIF associated problems. It's obviously not that easy. Wrap Up: Measurements are very valuable. No question about it. Measurements do show directions. Doing it right must be considered a (very costly) art on its own. Measurements do fail to give an explanation for everything out there, that's a fact. I highly recommend to read this 'this' (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insightscontent_id=11pagestring=Do+Measurements+Matter) article about what highly regarded audio manufacturers think about measurements and the necessity of listening tests as the final confirmation. Enjoy. Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;605620 Wrote: As far as I can see, nobody has yet presented any measurements... therefore nobody has yet attempted to interpret them... That's an excellent point. Thanks for bringing it up. This gives me (hopefully) an opportunity to revise my statements: in the absence of measurements, people rely on deductive reasoning, more so than on empirical evidence. And that's precisely my beef. For example, we have recently had one member here calling bullshit on Soundcheck's mods because he claims that he is a computer programmer and that, from the standpoint of the source code, there couldn't possibly be any differences. That's what I call deductive reasoning. A person refuses to look into empirical evidence, and is pre-emptivelly taking a stance. Good for him. I, on the other hand, prefer to rely on empirical evidence, as it gets presented to my senses. That's all. And please, don't misconstrue this as me insisting that everyone must follow my lead. All I'm saying is, here's my set of preferences, please respect them, and I will in turn respect your set of preferences. Phil Leigh;605620 Wrote: I'm not clear how you can predict with such confidence that the measuring results will be shoddy, given that nobody has yet presented any results... Obviously you have already decided that the results will be out of line with your subjective listening experiences. You should have more self-esteem... :-) I'm not predicting that they will be shoddy, I'm just predicting that, correct and impeccable as they may be, they'll be largely irrelevant to me. Like for example, if I listen to two different configurations and I can't hear any differences between the two, while at the same time you present me with measuring results that plainly and convincingly demonstrate huge differences between these two configurations, I will remain completely unimpressed. Why? Because, to me, it means absolutely nothing. If I can't hear it, I'm not buying it, period. And vice versa, of course. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;605943 Wrote: For example, we have recently had one member here calling bullshit on Soundcheck's mods because he claims that he is a computer programmer and that, from the standpoint of the source code, there couldn't possibly be any differences. That's what I call deductive reasoning. A person refuses to look into empirical evidence, and is pre-emptivelly taking a stance. Good for him. Hey, I resemble that remark! But one of us has misunderstood. Maybe it was you: My 'deductive reasoning' was being applied only to the volume maximising mod. I can understand the argument that superfluous processor load in the touch could conceivably have an impact on some parts of the music reproduction process, but this mod in particular has no possibility of doing that. The amount of computation is the same, the result is the same, but rather than using the computed result the mod uses a hard coded value. Perhaps you, with your years of professional programming experience, would like to point me in the right direction in understanding how that mod can have an effect. Maybe it was me: I had assumed that you'd accepted that this particular mod could not possibly affect the sound waves hitting your eardrums, and we were simply arguing about your right to interpret those sound waves differently. magiccarpetride;605943 Wrote: Like for example, if I listen to two different configurations and I can't hear any differences between the two, while at the same time you present me with measuring results that plainly and convincingly demonstrate huge differences between these two configurations, I will remain completely unimpressed. Why? Because, to me, it means absolutely nothing. If I can't hear it, I'm not buying it, period. Now that's a clever attempt to make a valid point, but we all know that in the audiophile world it is never this way around. Anyway, I think this point has been done to death now. Surely the next instalment is Phil's results. Phil - put away your microphone and your room correction software and finish up your post on the tests. You see what happens when you create a vacuum! -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Good Post Alex. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
chill;605976 Wrote: Perhaps you, with your years of professional programming experience, would like to point me in the right direction in understanding how that mod can have an effect. I don't explain them, I just enjoy them. chill;605976 Wrote: Now that's a clever attempt to make a valid point, but we all know that in the audiophile world it is never this way around. Never? I've just recently tried a pair of Belkin Pure AV interconnects, which could easily be measured as introducing a substantial change into my audio chain (they are just so different in design philosophy and build than my old interconnects). And while many people have reported hearing amazing differences and improvements, I, for the life of me, cannot hear even the slightest difference. Swapping back and forth, and even trying some other interconnects I've borrowed from friends (some of which are even ten times more expensive than the original interconnects), the differences were completely lost on me. Everything basically continued sounding absolutely the same to me. So the difference in measuring does not always translate into perceived differences. Same thing happened to me many times over with different components. Even when it comes to various power amps, some bargain priced, others super expensive, I often times couldn't hear even the slightest difference in sound. However, every now and then, I introduce a change into my audio system and then I get blown away by the unbelievable improvements. Such as with this Soundcheck mods case. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;605303 Wrote: Thanks again, Klaus. So now with all these mods, is it true that the only unconquered territory on the Touch is the fact that the screen, even though disabled, is still operating in the 'touch sensitive' mode? How do you know? I guess you didn't follow my instructions to turn off those Sound effects. ;) Which apparently show up on the main speakers. @ didbox. Yep. There ain't no free lunch. As I said earlier, stripping down my solution has some side effects. And your Sound Effects issue is one of it. That's why I said turn them off before you start the journey. For now it is like it is. Sorry. Let see if I can do something about it with the next revision. What I do: I actually use that screen for setting up the box only. I use iPad with iPeng (my - by a large margin - preferred app to control my squeeze system). The invest hurts once, I know, though you'll never look back. I'd love to see a remote setup menu feature being integrated by Logitech/iPeng and a big switch to turn the entire screen and all related SW threads and functions (OS/kernel App) off. That would make the entire screen obsolete. (It worked similar on the Duet - why not on the Touch) magiccarpetride;605303 Wrote: If that mode would to be disabled, do you figure it could make improvements to the sound? Are you asking me to bias you again? ;) You know my philosophy. In case I find the button I'm gonna push it and see what happens. I have the great advantage that I'm probably the only non-biased person around here. :D I never know what happens if I push a button. magiccarpetride;605303 Wrote: Or are there other things on the Touch that are still left unmodded? You mean, if I'd have some more stuff in the pocket? ;) For now I'd say concentrate on the HW. You can expect similar jumps on that side. Key areas are the network and the SPDIF link. And not to forget the power supply of course. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605327 Wrote: Thanks for that Klaus... ANOTHER case of RTFM..I didnt do a factory reset first. Sorry! *EDIT* After FActory Reset all is installed as it should be. Thanks Klaus. Thanks. What you're saying is you confirm 100% compatibility of TT2.0 on Touch Firmware 7.5.3. ? Cheers -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;605482 Wrote: What you're saying is you confirm 100% compatibility of TT2.0 on Touch Firmware 7.5.3. ? Cheers EXACTLY RIGHT! :) TTstat shows everything enabled. ttvol100 works fine too. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Hi Magiccarpetride... a couple of points if I may? You said: magiccarpetride;605405 Wrote: But isn't 'listener own brain' part of what you've labeled here 'objective reality'? Listener own brain surely is different for everyone...? We each hear differently and surely we cant tell someone else what they are hearing? magiccarpetride;605405 Wrote: Where in the heck did you get that approach from? 'Nullify the human factor'? What could be gained by doing that? We're not robots, and it's basically all precisely about the human factor. What other factor is there, anyway? I agree somewhat here. We dont hear the same because of various human factors, expectation bias, placebo efffect yada yada. These effects (from the mind) CAN have physical effects on the body - including the ears! So subjective listening with all its filters and human factors absolutely shape how we hear music... But measurement has its uses too, as it bypasses these human factors surely? Both are useful, don't you think? magiccarpetride;605405 Wrote: People are trying to pretend that their own subjective yardsticks don't matter, but it's just a product of the foolish attempts by those who would love to control others to subvert their self esteem. If someones subjective yardstick is different from another's...surely thats ok? To tell someone else they are wrong because their subjective view differs from yours could be taken, ironically enough, as the kind of control and manipulating behaviour that you mention and that NO-ONE likes... can you see what I mean? magiccarpetride;605405 Wrote: Anything else, and you're just fallen prey of the bullies who are trying to manipulate and control you. Who are these bullies? Authorities..? I frequent a fair few Forums and I can assure you, THIS one is one of the most helpful ones out there. Theres no cliques, no animosity to new members...none of that crap. Theres NO agenda here (c'mon..your being a bit silly with that ;)), just a bunch of folk with a shared hobby who are willing to take the time to help. Just like Soundcheck does. Its great that new folk are joining the Squeezebox party and its natural that new folk ask questions and raise points that others have discovered for themselves previously. If you hang around long enough you accrue some wisdom on the subject, some highly technical in nature. So its all good :) magiccarpetride;605405 Wrote: Trust your gut! Distrust Authorities and Establishment! I prefer not to distrust anyone if I can help it, makes for a more pleasant life, but Trust your gut? ABSOLUTELY :) You have to maybe let others be allowed trust theirs too? ;) Its ok to agree to disagree and healthy debate is what forums are all about. But no-one likes being told what they are hearing is wrong and they are foolish, controlling and manipulative...you know? Chill Bro.. Peace. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;605472 Wrote: For now I'd say concentrate on the HW. You can expect similar jumps on that side. Key areas are the network and the SPDIF link. And not to forget the power supply of course. I heard my Touch set up with a good linear supply and to my ears there was a worthwhile improvement. Works for me! -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605492 Wrote: I heard my Touch set up with a good linear supply and to my ears there was a worthwhile improvement. Works for me! You should not write that with a better power supply Touch sounds better :) They are some people here, which never heard any difference with a better ps, SW mods, no wlan etc, etc, and this is all your imagination :) -- praganj praganj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41091 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
praganj;605505 Wrote: You should not write that with a better power supply Touch sounds better :) They are some people here, which never heard any difference with a better ps, SW mods, no wlan etc, etc, and this is all your imagination :) Are you trying to pick a fight? Keep it light fella...;) :) -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
praganj;605505 Wrote: You should not write that with a better power supply Touch sounds better :) They are some people here, which never heard any difference with a better ps, SW mods, no wlan etc, etc, and this is all your imagination :) Well if it's his imagination, it's mine too! I was there and it was my linear supply we tried. I would call the improvements more than worthwhile, I would call them a big improvement. It was certainly not a subtle gain in SQ. -- Ali Tait Ali Tait's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37387 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Definately WASN'T my imagination -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;605472 Wrote: ... I have the great advantage that I'm probably the only non-biased person around here... Hmmm... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;605482 Wrote: What you're saying is you confirm 100% compatibility of TT2.0 on Touch Firmware 7.5.3. ? Cheers I have re-installed TT2.0 (except for disabling WLAN) after updating SBS to 7.5.3 and can also confirm that TT2.0 is compatible with this updated firmware. Guido F. -- guidof *Front End*: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge; Cambridge Azur 840C CD Player; Oppo BDP--83 Universal Player; Squeezebox Touch Music File Player (digital out to Cambridge Azur 840C DAC) *Preamps*: Conrad Johnson Motif (Phono); Adcom GFP-750 (Line) *Amps*: Music Reference RM-200 Mk II (Main); Little Tube Mk III (Phones) *Subwoofer Equalizer*: DSpeaker Antimode 8033 *Speakers*: Martin Logan SL3s; REL T1 Subwoofer *Headphones*: AKG K701 guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Peace out, Gaz! (cool reply, btw:) Gazjam;605491 Wrote: Listener own brain surely is different for everyone...? We each hear differently and surely we cant tell someone else what they are hearing? No doubt. Not sure how this happened, but while I was defending my own right to have different kinds of subjective experiences, I got attacked for allegedly insisting that others don't have that same right to their own subjective experiences. See how fcuked up that is? I never said that others must have experiences identical to mine. All I said was, despite the fact that some dude somewhere had cast a shoddy net (by that I mean was using some measuring apparatus) over some 'measurable' phenomena, and couldn't catch any differences in his net, he is now arrogantly forbidding everyone else from claiming that the differences are there. These people that hide behind so-called 'objective' measuring disgust me. They're bullies and cowards, to say the least. Let everyone experience reality in their own ways, governed by their own physical, physiological and mental constitution and their own proclivities. Don't bully people into obeying some cold, heartless apparatus that says that differences are nowhere to be found. Measuring instruments have nothing on human ability to experience the world around us. (I'm talking about things that pertain to our senses) Gazjam;605491 Wrote: But measurement has its uses too, as it bypasses these human factors surely? Both are useful, don't you think? Absolutely. And while it is true that we can attempt to measure the factors and variables that contribute to our enjoyment during sexual intercourse, we would be idiots to rely on that kind of information before we are allowed to say whether we had a great lay or a so-so lay. (sorry about the non-prudish illustration) Measuring various phenomena around us is a useful discipline, providing that we apply common sense to the measuring results. And I'm not seeing much common sense being applied around here when it comes to interpreting measuring results. Gazjam;605491 Wrote: If someones subjective yardstick is different from another's...surely thats ok? Not only is it OK, it's highly desirable that it remains so. Otherwise, we'd back back into the dark era of totalitarian regimes, such as Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. Cold war anyone? Gazjam;605491 Wrote: To tell someone else they are wrong because their subjective view differs from yours could be taken, ironically enough, as the kind of control and manipulating behaviour that you mention and that NO-ONE likes... True. However, I never said that. All I said was that my subjective view overrules anyone's measuring results. You can't come to me and tell me that I haven't been enjoying my listening because some bloody measuring instrument you're holding in your hand says so. I don't give a rat's behind about that. If you, on the other hand, claim that you haven't enjoyed that listening session because your measuring instrument dictates to you that you shouldn't, then more power to you. Who am I to argue? I'm only asking that you don't smother your shit over my enjoyment. Gazjam;605491 Wrote: can you see what I mean? Yes I can. Gazjam;605491 Wrote: Who are these bullies? Authorities..? To me, anyone who tries to bully his or her way and force it onto others is a bully. Be it a schoolyard kid, or a president etc. Gazjam;605491 Wrote: I frequent a fair few Forums and I can assure you, THIS one is one of the most helpful ones out there. Theres no cliques, no animosity to new members...none of that crap. Theres NO agenda here (c'mon..your being a bit silly with that ;)), just a bunch of folk with a shared hobby who are willing to take the time to help. Just like Soundcheck does. Cool. And let's make sure it stays that way. So if I claim that some change I made to my system creates oodles of more pleasure to my listening ears, I'm expecting others to respect that and not insist that I am oh-so-wrong on that, because the differences I'm supposedly hearing are imaginary. Who are they to say so? I'm certainly not trying to bully anyone into abandoning their convictions that fixing the digital volume control on the Touch makes no difference at all. If that's someone's trip, I'm absolutely cool with that. I'm just asking the same level of respect from others -- if I claim to hear huge differences, please respect my opinion, and treat it for what it is -- just an opinion. Gazjam;605491 Wrote: I prefer not to distrust anyone if I can help it, makes for a more pleasant life, but Trust your gut? ABSOLUTELY :) You have to maybe let others be allowed trust theirs too? ;) I'm 100% for it. I never insisted that others should not trust their guts. As a matter of fact, I strongly recommend it. I am more apprehensive of being fooled by the shoddy measuring results and abandoning a fruitful path that may lead toward glorious music experiences. Gazjam;605491
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
cool level headed reply. Kudos. Lets agree thats its ok to agree to disagree and move on. :) Oh, regarding sexual relations...? ask any woman, she'll be quick to do some measurements! (not mine though...ahem):) -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;605603 Wrote: ...Measuring instruments have nothing on human ability to experience the world around us. (I'm talking about things that pertain to our senses) Humans interpret, measuring instruments don't interpret, they only measure. It's down to humans to decide how to interpret those measurements. Measuring instruments are easily capable of measuring most things with a resolution far beyond human ability (like time, weight, distance, pressure, frequency...) Deciding to what extent these things are important is the human perogative. magiccarpetride;605603 Wrote: Measuring various phenomena around us is a useful discipline, providing that we apply common sense to the measuring results. And I'm not seeing much common sense being applied around here when it comes to interpreting measuring results. As far as I can see, nobody has yet presented any measurements... therefore nobody has yet attempted to interpret them... magiccarpetride;605603 Wrote: ... I am more apprehensive of being fooled by the shoddy measuring results and abandoning a fruitful path that may lead toward glorious music experiences. I'm not clear how you can predict with such confidence that the measuring results will be shoddy, given that nobody has yet presented any results... Obviously you have already decided that the results will be out of line with your subjective listening experiences. You should have more self-esteem... :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605149 Wrote: Uhm... I'll just run Erlands patch. ta. Or Peterw's?... or go to 7.6 -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605149 Wrote: Uhm... I'll just run Erlands patch. ta. The patch has been download a couple of hundred times. It should work. You can run e.g.: which ttvol100 to see if the file is there. In one case it happened that tar archives got corrupted. In such a case you just download and reinstall it again. Make sure you're at / directory when unpacking. -- soundcheck 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) || 'soundcheck's Touch Toolbox - Beta Blog' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-tt-beta-blog.html) soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;605158 Wrote: The patch has been download a couple of hundred times. It should work. You can run e.g.: which ttvol100 to see if the file is there. In one case it happened that tar archives got corrupted. In such a case you just download and reinstall it again. Make sure you're at / directory when unpacking. Thanks Klaus. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Gazjam;605173 Wrote: Is 7.6 is a stable enough state Phil, as its still beta? ta. well, it all depends. I've been running it for many months now without any serious or persistent issues. But... I have a vanilla setup with few plugins, XP (SP3) flac+mp3 only. 7.6 certainly performs faster for me on scans and in general browsing (I use the web ui a lot). 7.6 works very well with SQLIte and not so well with MYSql. MYSql support will be deprecated or stabilised eventually anyway according to the Devs. I've made that leap already. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;605177 Wrote: well, it all depends. I've been running it for many months now without any serious or persistent issues. But... I have a vanilla setup with few plugins, XP (SP3) flac+mp3 only. 7.6 certainly performs faster for me on scans and in general browsing (I use the web ui a lot). 7.6 works very well with SQLIte and not so well with MYSql. MYSql support will be deprecated or stabilised eventually anyway according to the Devs. I've made that leap already. Thanks Phil, I tried 7.6 in its early stages had a problem with a plugin or two...more up to date version of it now. I'll go with SQLite see how that goes... Can always uninstall if it breaks summit! thanks. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
